Splurge Monday’s Workwear Report: Serge Wool Bootcut Pants
This post may contain affiliate links and Corporette® may earn commissions for purchases made through links in this post. As an Amazon Associate, I earn from qualifying purchases.
Our daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices.
Did anyone else see Kendrick Lamar’s halftime performance and immediately start searching for bootcut pants? Just me? Fine.
While I can’t guarantee that you’ll get Serena Williams jumping out as your backup dancer, these wool bootcut trousers will let you channel Kendrick’s bootcut vibe in a work-appropriate manner. I really like the waistband and front-welt pockets for creating a smooth look in the front, and as a short-legged lady, I appreciate the 32-inch inseam, which is doable with heels. (Tall friends, these might not work for you, though!)
The pants are $845 at Bloomingdale’s and come in sizes 2-16.
Two more affordable options (both at Nordstrom) are from Lands' End (short, regular, tall and plus sizes for $69.95) and Nic + Zoe (straight sizes and plus, $148 and $168).
Looking for more wool pants? Some reliable spots to check for wool flannel pants in 2025 include Loft, Talbots*, Brooks Brothers, Aritzia, and Saks and Nordstrom (with options from brands like Theory and Vince). If you're looking for soft, warm wool pants, also keep an eye out for Italian wool options like those from J.Crew*. (Check the asterisks for plus sizes!)
Sales of note for 3/15/25:
- Nordstrom – Spring sale, up to 50% off
- Ann Taylor – 40% off everything + free shipping
- Banana Republic Factory – 40% off everything + extra 20% off
- Eloquii – 50% off select styles + extra 50% off sale
- J.Crew – Extra 30% off women's styles + spring break styles on sale
- J.Crew Factory – 40% off everything + extra 20% off 3 styles + 50% off clearance
- M.M.LaFleur – Friends and family sale, 20% off with code; use code CORPORETTE15 for 15% off
- Spanx – Lots of workwear on sale, some up to 70% off
- Talbots – 40% off 1 item + 30% off everything else (includes markdowns, already 25% off)
My mom is having major abdominal surgery – complete hysterectomy, partial bowel and lung removal (cancer). Large andominal incisions, not laprascopic. Doc expects a 5-8 overnights in the hospital, then PT 6-10 weeks post-op. What tangible clothing or care items can I purchase for her to ease recovery? She is 70, 4’11”, and typically a S/M petite.
I had an older family member go through similar-ish, less major but very debilitating.
If she has post-op incision care, loose tie robes and button-down shirts will be ideal.
I imagine as a petite older woman she gets cold easily, especially in her extremities, and she may need support with circulation while mostly sedentary, so compression socks and thick, fluffy blankets are great.
To pass the time, my family member purchased one of those old portable DVD players and bought a bunch of her favorite movies and shows. We also showered her with books and audiobooks.
Since the abdominal region is what stabilizes a lot of our day-to-day movement, certain tasks will be hard or impossible for her, so generally keeping what she needs available and accessible nearby (eg, pillbox, calendar, tissues, glass of water) will be helpful.
Keeping her environment clean will be really important to her health after such major surgery, so pick up some clorox wipes and be conscientious about wiping down anything she might touch. This will help prevent her from getting a cold or flu while in recovery.
I’m sure there are more ideas but those are what come to mind. Think also about her hobbies to help keep her distracted during this time; Sudoku and crosswords are a favorite of my relative’s.
Wiping surfaces is always a good idea since many illnesses do transmit this way. But PSA that the vast majority of transmission of what we’d call a cold or flu is airborne, not fomite. Her healthcare team needs to be masking up if they want to prevent her from getting a cold or flu while in recovery (though in the current climate, this can take some advocacy). Agree on all the rest, except I might opt for an iPad over a DVD player for convenience.
+1 to precautions against airborne disease. Please advocate for your mom and mask up. Flu season is very bad right now.
Specific recs from the above–
Robe: Offhours Homecoat
Comfy button down: Aerie Real Soft Pajama Shirt
Compression socks: Sockwell Lifestyle Compression Socks
Other comfy, non-compression socks: Norlander socks :)
Portable DVD player: Proscan (from best buy)
Just get an iPad and a Netflix account – portable DVD player in 2025??
I liked Vuori joggers after my recent abdominal surgery. Good luck!
I agree with the iPad over a DVD player, but unless she wants to watch its originals, Netflix really doesn’t have that much in its library these days. I’d go with HBO if she likes classic movies and their tv shows, Hulu or Peacock if she likes regular network tv, or Britbox or Acorn if she likes mystery series (those feel like good recovery tv).
I’m a different poster, but some older folks are less interested in iPads in situations like this. Vision problems, clumsiness problems, not being able to hold something leaning on your belly post surgery etc. Sometimes old fashioned is best.
Assuming there is WiFi, an inexpensive smart TV with a voice-operated remote control would be ideal (an much less costly than an iPad).
My mom had abdominal surgery (not as extensive as yours) a few years ago. I bought her the Soma cool nights pajama pants because there is a drawstring where she could make them looser, and the elastic band was very thin so there wasn’t a lot of tightness. They sell them in short sizes which would be perfect for someone who is 4’11. In your mom’s case, I’d also recommend loose robes. Not sure if she would be interested in slippers, but Soma has slide slippers that my mom likes.
Pajama Pants: https://www.soma.com/store/product/cool+nights+printed+pajama+pants/1570360641
Slippers: https://www.soma.com/store/product/faux+fur+slide+slippers/570374808
If she’s not already set up for this, get her a sturdy shower/tub chair and hand-held attachment so she can bathe while sitting down.
Also, I’m so sorry. This type of major surgery for cancer means that all of you are in a season where so many painful things must have been happening, and are continuing to happen.
Is she getting discharged to rehab or discharged home? Surgery does a number on the GI system anyway. How is she for mobility home — are all bedrooms on the ground floor or are there stairs? Does she need a potty chair next to her bed and does she perhaps need a rental hospital bed or a thing with arms for boosting that can help get her up from a toilet? I put in lots of pathway illumination lights and made sure my dad had a flashlight on his nightstand to avoid tripping at night (I’m never sure what the meds add in terms of challenges, even with a clear path). Even if PT comes in, you may need OT also and she may need help with ADLs at first. I think it’s criminal what we expect people to DIY here and I get that home is more restful than a facility but it can also be much more unsafe (older hoarder in-laws: looking at you).
I don’t know if these are still in stock but the Aerie foldover joggers are amazing. If she’s petite the elastic at the bottom will keep them above her ankles. I don’t know how comfortable she’d be with clothing over the sutures but if she had a lot of dressings/adult diapers it would work to cover all that. They may be better for later recovery but they’re versatile and comfortable.
If she is able/eligible to go to inpatient rehab for a few weeks, I would highly recommend that.
If she is going home, does she have a power recliner she can sleep in. I slept in one for a few weeks after open abdominal surgery, as it was really hard to get up and down and laying flat was painful.
Will she have drains? Open button shirts will be easiest to deal with. Depending where you are climate wise, a heated throw would be nice and a grabber tool. Skecher shoes that she can just push her foot into.
Hope she recovers well.
+1 to inpatient rehab
24/7 monitoring + food prep + appropriate bed / bathroom + on-site OT and PT
I’d pay more for a private room ($650/day in NJ outlying county). Has any social worker talked to her about safe discharge from the hospital? I feel that they help oversee that, especially if a person needs 24/7 care (so you can have in-home care, but if they can’t make it up your driveway in a storm, your mom may be SOL and needing help with all sorts of ADLs, never mind in the power goes out and it starts to get very cold inside).
I would get underwear at least a size bigger than usual, high-waisted so the waistband comes up over the incision as much as possible. A narrow, non-grippy waist would be ideal.
For pants, drawstring waist, also a roomy size, so she can slip the pants over her abdomen and tie them loosely.
For the hospital, you might want to get your mom an eye mask and headphones or ear buds, and a white noise app for her phone, to help her rest.
Any underwear recs? This seems like the type of thing my dad and her would not think of. She has worn thin satiny granny undies (multi pack from idk where!) my whole life, I am picturing they have a very narrow elastic at the top.
Gap has some nice ones that are 100% cotton and hold up well. I tried cheaper packs from Target and they got eaten in the washing machine after a couple washes.
Felina cotton underwear is very comfortable.
I would look at Fruit of the Loom briefs. My hysterectomy incision went from just above the p*bic area to about one half inch under my navel. Anything hipster or boy-cut would have run across the incision. Fruit of the Loom seems to have narrow, stretchy waistbands.
I had c-section friendly underwear when I was postpartum that might work well — that might be a useful search term.
Sloggi maxi in cotton
The hospital may have those disposable mesh undies you get postpartum. I think they’re comfy and would take a bunch home.
Oh my. That is a tough one. I’d recommend anything very loose fitting. After my hysterectomy, I loved soft, elastic waisted pj pants from Target and a soft top. I sized up so I could wear it low on my hips to avoid the incisions. Warm socks.
Does she have a cane or a walker to help her get out of bed? My abdominal muscles felt like they’d been through the wringer, and I needed a cane for a few days to help me hoist myself out of bed even as an active 41-year-old!
When she goes home, a shower chair may be useful.
Oh, yes. Size up on underwear, too. Both because of the swelling and because it’s just more comfortable. I bought some super-stretchy Hanes in a soft microfiber fabric.
Can she be released to a skilled nursing facility (SNF) for a few weeks post surgery?
Given the scale and location of the surgery, I would anticipate that she will have significant mobility issues and will need assistant with getting up/down from sitting reclined positions, help walking, and help showering at a minimum – along with restrictions on lifting.
Before having the surgery, I would be very clear on your mother’s post-operative recovery plan and set everything up in advance.
I would be worried about her picking up a respiratory tract infection post op and in rehab. Coughing will be especially painful and impair healing.
I would encourage her to mask when she is around others. A regular surgical mask, or better yet KN95s if you can swing it.
I recently had back surgery (much more minor thankfully) and two things that helped me was a toilet seat with handles to help use your arms to sit down and rise (go for the shallower one – I am 5’2” and the 5” one was too tall) and a car cane – a handle you put in the latch of a car door to help you get in and out of the car, for appointments and such. Both really reduced pain, bending and twisting.
I had colon cancer surgery, and a wedge pillow was a godsend. I don’t think I could have gotten out of bed without it because my abdomen was so sore. With the wedge, I was able to roll to my side and push myself a bit. Highly recommend if you don’t have already.
For clothing: true wraps and waterfall cardigans on top, front-closing bra, slouchy harem yoga pants in a jersey material (no compression or elastic, the ones with a broad fabric band at the waist).
Same, prayers for you both. Here is what helped me : Lovely, looser, soft robe/pj’s/throw, soft and/or fluffy, nothing that has to be put on over the head (hurts!)!! Also, I could not put a bra on for a month because of painful lung removal incisions and drain tubes so have soft, looser tops that are comfy and opaque. Make sure hosptial gives her a silicone scar sheet and that she wears it every night for a month or two, it made the jagged, ugly incisions so smooth and pale that 1 1/2 years post surgery my PCP took a picture of my back and had to point out where the scars had been-amazing. Magazines/books that are not heavy that she likes, favorite snacks that are easy to eat and if it needs a fork, spoon, or knife provide that so she can eat it when she wants without having to wait for busy nurses to get these items. Fun, upbeat texts, reels or videos to lift her spirits. I was in ICU for 9 days and nurse told me do not use the hospital shower because of germs so get nice moistened face or body wipes would be helpful (hospital had body wipes but they had vaseline on them so might not want for face). I got up when cleared and did camping baths in the bathroom the best I could i.e. warm water and soap on a washcloth/rinse. Not as good as a shower but I felt a lot better being clean and refreshed. Dont bring her own slippers and dont take home the hospital socks that have stickee treads on the bottom as they can introduce germs into her home (nurse told me this). When you are away from the hospital call the nurses station periodically just to keep her on their radar (when I had second cancer bipsy/ablation nurse forgot about me for 45 minutes when I was waiting for my lunch but what if there had been a serious issue?!). All the best, please let us know how she does, if you are so inclined.
Your poor mom. I had a less intense surgery and needed a grabber. I used it to pull up my pants when going to the bathroom, among other things. She might appreciate nightgowns or other easy up/down comfy clothing.
Since she’s in for a longer hospital stay, if she’s always cold bring an electric blanket. They are so helpful in being comfortable. I also bring my own pillow and a little caddy to hold things I want easy access to on the bedside tray (like eye drops, lotion, sanitizer, snacks, kindle). It may seem extra but nobody minds.
There are surgery recovery supplements like Juven. If she doesn’t have a great diet, they may be helpful. Sometimes hospitals give these.
I’d also try to get a read on what she may need at home after discharge, even after rehab. Grab bars, shower chair, walker, etc.
Not what you asked, but I’m seconding the replies that in-patient rehab is desirable. My 85-y-o, otherwise healthy mom broke her wrist and her hip in a fall last summer, and she spent two+ weeks in a special rehab hospital affiliated with her health care network. She got PT or OT multiple times a day, and I think got much better care than she would have in a rehab facility that was part of a nursing home. (The food was even decent.)
When she started PT, my mom needed clothes she could move in but also not feel exposed and mostly wore longish, loose tops with a close-fitting cami instead of a bra and elastic-waist kint pants or crops. For PT, she needed stable shoes and found that slip-on Skecher types were best.
When my husband had abdominal surgery we got him a pack of hospital gowns, ordered them on Amazon. They can be worn either way, with the strings as loose or tight as you want, and they’re easy to wash. If one gets dirty just grab another one. He was adamant about not having anything around his waist — couldn’t tolerate even the loosest elastic during his recovery. Good luck to you and your mom!
I think I had these pants in 2009.
As tempted as I am to leave a message for my Democratic senators urging them to find some balls, what I’d like to do is identify Dem senators who ARE doing something, anything, and send a message of support (and then urge my senators to follow their lead, using specifics). Anyone have senators who aren’t totally ineffectual in our constitutional crisis?
Not addressing the senator question, but the Democrat AGs have been very active in challenging many aspects of what DOGE and various executive orders are attempting. I am sure they would appreciate messages of support.
Josh Stein of NC
Josh Stein is governor. Jeff Jackson is AG.
Sorry — he was the NC AG before getting elected governor.
+1, the AGs have been fierce fighters and deserve a ton of encouragement and thanks!
Chris Murphy
Are you specifically looking for senators? Maybe Chris Coons, Chris Murphy, Lisa Blunt Rochester, Brian Schatz.
If you’re open to house members, Hakeem Jeffries & Jamie Raskin.
Andy Kim, freshman senator from NJ.
Serious question: What exactly do you expect the Democrats (in the minority) in the Senate to do? Most of what the President/Musk are doing is through executive order/action, not legislation and the changes to the filibuster rules means that they cannot even hold up nominations.
So they can scream and yell and jump up and down, but I am struggling to think of what they can actually do other than wait for the inevitable implosion.
Schumer and others showed some balls by doing the all night thing last eeek to oppose one of the nominees. They still got voted in of course.
I know Fetterman and others have been voting FOR some of the picks. Those guys need to go.
I am in Maryland and Sen. Van Hollen was one of the first to speak out about the USAID cuts and I have been really proud and impressed.
Sen. Bernie Sanders has been speaking out for years about the rise of authoritarianism and did as much as anyone could to try and block the RFK confirmation. Regardless of how you feel about his role in presidential races, he does the work and he and his team deserve support right now.
Ok but what you are saying is that some Senators are protesting what is happening – but that is not going to make an ounce of difference in the outcome.
People keep expressing frustration with Democrats in the Senate and House for not doing anything, but at the federal level there is nothing for them to do. The Republicans are in control and seem happy to blow everything up. That is not going to change until their constituents start feeling real pain.
I have zero motivation to work. I need the money (I have savings, but live alone and need to make money). I have a lot going on in my personal life – recent breakup, over the holidays found out my sibling is terminally ill, several close friends who are /were fed employees. But I am struggling to get out of bed, or go to work, or get work done when I am there. Any suggestions for getting through this? Lawyer, firm, went from billing 150 hrs/month to 80/month in Dec/Jan, and that’s what I’m on track to do in Feb, too.
Go see your physician
Get on low dose SSRI
Ask an EAP to help you call therapists or psychiatrists and get into see them
Take the whole morning / afternoon off of those appointments
Tell your team your have some personal stuff coming up you have to take care of
Get into once a week therapy
Adjust your meds
Sorry
It’s classic for a reason
Btdt knows what’s up. That’s exactly it. And once you get into a rhythm, try to force yourself to do hobbies and things you once loved — even if they aren’t fun at first, generally we find ourselves starting to enjoy them again after getting over that initial depressive hurdle.
This, plus work on not taking on your federal friends’ stress as your own. You can be sympathetic but you shouldn’t feel their feelings or anxieties.
+1. And this is super hard. One of my siblings went through a terrible divorce last year. I definitely took on tons of stress and anxiety because I felt for her so much, but it ultimately was not helpful for my own mental health.
I’m sorry you’re going through all this. You’re in a rough season (so am I). The advice above is perfect.
Nothing saps my last remaining vestiges of motivation like an SSRI.
Fair but that’s first line action.
The therapy will help. After 5-6 weeks if SSRI isn’t doing much… see where I said “adjust meds”? Maybe it’s no SSRI! Maybe it’s a stimulant. Who knows
I don’t. The experts do
You’re reaching out for help OP and you’re not the first one to do so
Please please rely on experts and friends to help you get through this
It will pass
But it will be easier with help
Get the SSRI while you can – those are in the cross hairs from HHS now.
If SSRIs are going to become harder to obtain, wouldn’t you NOT want to start one now? You don’t want to become dependent on something you can’t rely on getting in the future.
Yeah I’d much rather get cut off from Wellbutrin than go cold turkey off an SSRI, and I think the science would back me up there!
This is depression. You have to treat it in whatever way helps you. It’s probably temporary and eventually you won’t need the treatment anymore. Talk to your doctor and take the depression screening test they give
I’m so sorry you’re feeling like this. Speaking from experience, this is depression. For me, meds were the key. If meds aren’t for you (people have different experiences and make various choices), then make sure you get exercise early in the day and get enough sleep.
Good luck to you.
Sometimes it just takes the realization that while those things are sad, they are not happening to you besides the breakup. Those suck but they’re part of the process. Turn off the news and don’t take on other people’s problems as your own.
Check out Captain Awkward’s “How to tighten up your game at work when your depressed” to help you push through until things improve a bit.
Thank you Kat for having a post up today. I am feeling very bummed that my company doesn’t have today off and as silly as it sounds I appreciate the reminder that I’m not alone in that.
agree, i am also at work today
This is not even a state holiday for me.
I didn’t even realize it was any sort of day other than a Monday.
Same. Totally forgot about it, schools are in session here too. It’s funny how some of these holidays are so regionally observed.
It’s President’s Day, a horrific weather day (holy ice and wind…) and the first day of our February Vacation Week here in Boston. I didn’t hit the breaks once while driving in this morning. I don’t mind being here as I had some things to get done. Hoping to dip by 2-ish because there is no one around – not clients or colleagues. It’s not a holiday for us but most took it off.
I get Presidents’ Day but have never in my life heard of February vacation week.
It’s a thing in my CA community, they refer to it as Ski Week! Everyone heads to Tahoe. It is awesome if you stay home, there is no one around!
Most New England states do school vacation week in February and April.
The South is now doing this too, since our public school year seems to start in early August. Presidents’ Day has become a week. I think they’re trying to make year-round schooling happen so slowly we hardly realize it
It’s a holiday for me, but I have financial reporting deliverables so likely to work a whole day, and I worked a whole day yesterday too. I am theoretically accumulating comp days I can take instead of vacation, but it’s hard to even use my regular PTO in this job… sigh
If it makes you feel better, I’m a fed (for now) and am off today but my friend in my office got fired today
Ketamine-fueled madness does not take holidays
Alas.
When did range hoods become a thing? I’ve always had the microwave above the range. We are in the early stages of redoing our kitchen and suddenly it seems no one has microwaves there anymore. To my eye, microwaves above the range now look a bit dated (no shade there though; my kitchen hasn’t been updated since 1986). Is this new or have I just not noticed before? Are vent hoods necessary or more for style?
A vent hood is necessary. If there’s a microwave over the range, it should have a built-in hood that is vented outdoors.
Where are microwaves going if they aren’t over the range? In a normal-sized kitchen, there really isn’t room for one anywhere else. Or are you just talking about giant luxury kitchens?
My microwave is over my wall oven. I don’t have a big fancy kitchen.
I think the microwave pretty much has to go over the stove if you have a range as opposed to a separate cooktop and wall oven, unless you have a ton of space.
Ironically, I think that range hoods were more popular up until about 30 or 40 years ago.
+1
yes, this is the old style.
i keep my microwave on the counter. I have never had it elevated. it is a combo microwave/oven/air fryer
Yes you want a hood! Does your existing microwave not serve that function (have a vent feature)? Great for sucking cooking smells right up and out.
Our city kitchen is too small to do it, but the rise of the drawer microwave trend is a good one IMHO.
We considered it necessary in our house. Gas stove (which we like), small kitchen, and our daughters’ bedroom on the same floor as the kitchen. When we cooked, the whole house smelled. We got a range hood and vented it outside.
I’ve never lived in a house where the hood vented to the outside, just a light and a fan that blows steam back into the room above the head of whoever is standing at the stove. Even then, I can’t imagine NOT having a vent hood. Without one, the bottom of whatever is over the stove would get so gross, so quickly. I can’t imagine cooking without a light.
That said, I passionately hate microwaves that are not at counter level. No, I don’t want to pull plasmatic soup out of box that is above my head. No, I don’t want to do squats to get to my oatmeal. It’s okay if they are in the wall at roughly counter-level, but having them actually on a counter where you can pull stuff out, drop it quickly on the counter, and not have to play a balancing burn game makes so much more sense to me.
Range hoods that vent outdoors are really helpful for indoor air quality when cooking regardless of type of stove or oven. They’re crucial to run while a gas oven or stove is on. You can search for various university press releases on research on gas stoves.
I hate the noise, though.
OP here and we have an electric stove and will continue to. We don’t have a gas hookup at all in our house.
Venting to outdoors is still a good thing if you can manage it. Cooking odors and grease become either less of an issue or a nonissue, depending on the quality of the hood’s motor. If it is a long run through an attic to the roof, or if you just don’t want to listen to a hood motor in your kitchen, there are in-line setups where the motor will be on the vent duct in the attic.
You can burn broccoli on an electric stove easy enough.
I love my gas range so much. I also am concerned about what I’m learning about air quality, so I feel kinda stuck. I guess I’ll use it ’til it dies, then maybe try something else. But … man I love cooking on a gas range, it was a non-negotiable for me when we were building a house over a decade ago.
Same.
I used to think the same, but modern induction ranges are great. I recently replaced gas with induction and the induction is so much more responsive, so much faster when I need fast, and so much easier to clean. My asthma has also improved tremendously since switching to induction.
I’m also using until it dies. For now I run my stove hood fan and open the window. “Cooking” is terrible for air quality at baseline.
I redid my kitchen last year and got rid of the over oven microwave. I had electrician install electric outlets in a couple cabinets. One taller cabinet that is my main pantry has the microwave, another counter cabinet that goes down to counter has my whole coffee set up. You can look up appliance garages/cabinets for some ideas
Completely depends on size of kitchen
And where you want / need your microwave
I really would prefer a countertop microwave!! Some people think that’s clutter and want below counter microwaves or more like a drawer? I don’t know
I have had above stove microwaves and they suck for kids but also allow grown ups to control the microwave
But also make it hard to cook in oven stove and microwave all at once – things are hot!
Do what you want
I’ve always hidden a microwave in a cabinet, cannot imagine having one that prominent in a kitchen. Range hoods are very classic.
Microwaves vent too. I was told I shouldn’t put it into a cabinet.
For the very occasional use I give it, it’s fine, just open the cabinet door while you use it.
Microwaves above the stove are generally considered the cheap option or a necessary evil for small kitchens. If you have enough space to put the microwave somewhere else then relocate it. They don’t make great vents and it’s frustrating trying to cook a meal at the stove when another person wants to microwave something.
Having a range hood is my favorite thing in my kitchen. It makes cooking so much more pleasant, despite the noise.
I don’t own a microwave, haven’t used one in a decade except a few times at an office. If you are short on space, consider if you really need it (though I admit there have been a few occasions when I wished for a boxed frozen meal I enjoyed as a kid and had to pass because there is no good way to heat it in the oven or stovetop).
Counterpoint: I cook from scratch a lot and use the microwave on a daily basis to defrost frozen meat or bread, melt butter or chocolate, etc.
+1
Yeah, I cook every meal that goes in my mouth or my family‘s mouths and I use the microwave a lot for basic things, like quickly defrosting a cup of homemade stock. Microwaves aren’t just for convenience food.
I cook almost exclusively from scratch and don’t have a microwave. No room in my little kitchen. I have to plan ahead a little more but it’s no biggie.
Fine, but if you have room for a microwave (which OP clearly does), why would you make your life that much more complicated?
Microwave is by far my most used small appliance – it makes it so much easier to cook once, and then have leftovers for a few days.
Eh. You just get used to reheating in the oven or on the stove. I live by cooking once or twice a week and reheating leftovers. I prefer the results.
Many of us just don’t want to take the time. it is so much slower.
When we updated our kitchen I think we had to lose the microwave over the range also because it wasn’t regulation height. Check your pertinent laws.
There are now flatter microwaves that take up less space over the stove, with integrated vent hoods. When we redo our small kitchen that’s what we’ll get.
Sometime in the last 20 years is my guess, based on what I see in houses built in the 90s to new construction today. The stove top in the middle kitchen island without a vent hood above it is definitely out.
Yeah, we have our stove top in the island and even though we have a pop-up exhaust fan, it doesn’t work nearly as well as an actual range hood.
I have only ever lived in homes built 1960s or earlier, and every last one had a range hood. Also thinking about all the friends and family homes I have been in, I cannot picture any that didn’t have a range hood of some kind. They have definitely been around for significantly longer than 20 years; the only two I can think of where there wasn’t a range hood have their ranges in the middle of a kitchen island. Are houses built in this century really not including range hoods??
None of the century homes I’ve owned or lived in in the Midwest had a range hood. Some had a vent in the wall, but until around 2010, I didn’t see many architectural range hoods outside of more commercially designed kitchens. I’m sure some of this is regional, though.
Huh, I’m in the Midwest, too, and while century homes often still have the wall vent, anything that was redone as far back as the 1950s has added a range hood.
Wait – *architectural* range hoods are not what I am talking about. Just any range hood. So that might explain why you aren’t seeing them until 2010; you are specifying a style. Broaden that phrase to include a hood of any type over the range, and they 100% were ubiquitous far predating 2010.
A lot of vent hoods aren’t even functional. They make noise but don’t actually move anything along. I’d rather have the microwave.
The house I grew up in was built in 1952 and had a range hood. I moved to a 70s apartment building – range hood, yes. Then a 1945 flat. Range hood.
Then I bought a house built in 1922, no range hood, but that kitchen had been badly remodeled in the 1980s, so I suspect they just took it out.
My current house was built in 1909. There was a range hood when we moved in, but actually I think the original stove was under a chimney/hearth. The chimney still exists, going through the roof, and the over-stove fan vents to it.
Now we have a, integrated microwave/vent fan over the stove due to lack of counter space (kitchens 100+ years ago tended not to be huge, and didn’t have counters at all!) but the microwave vents to the chimney and it works fine.
I am going to make this question vague and open-ended because I am afraid of outing myself with too much detail.
Child is graduating from college after mental health struggles and a non-linear path. Child’s mental health is much improved and has finished strong. Child lives with partner, who has been very supportive, in nearby city. Child’s degree will be in a liberal arts major that is often a precursor to grad school. Child is not interested in grad school and is applying for jobs, so far unsuccessfully. Child will graduate with no debt.
Assume Child does not want to move home. Also assume Mom and Dad have the financial means to keep supporting Child.
How much support is reasonable, and for how long?
There is no right answer. I think that as long as Child is doing everything in their power to obtain gainful employment, including taking shift/hourly work of some kind to bring in income while looking for a permanent position and is not exploiting parental support (extravagant demands, vacations, etc) then support is potentially even more justifiable. If parents didn’t have means, the answer may be different. I don’t know if/how Child living with partner plays in here – I think I’d consider partner more of a roommate in terms of practical cost sharing when determining amount of support to provide (like, half of rent, etc).
agree with this. also depends on how much you do or don’t want child to end up moving home. child should also be engaging with university career center for assistance. and if the child does not have a job lined up by graduation, to pursue some kind of shift/hourly work in the interim. perhaps you agree to pay rent and child pays for other items? is child still under 26 and able to stay on your health insurance?
anon at 10:10 here. I’d also add: I think this is my answer even if Child didn’t have mental health concerns. Is the kid a decent kid, trying their best, contributing positively to the community/relationships/family? Then, help them out as long as providing that help isn’t a burden to parents.
Agree with all of this. I would be willing to provide some support until the child could get on their feet in a professional job. But, they’d also have to demonstrate that they’re trying their best. I think it’s wise to continue pursuing employment and not grad school, which, IMO, is just delaying the inevitable unless there’s a really clear path from grad school to a specific job.
As someone who also graduated with a liberal arts degree and was unsure about grad school at that time, I connected with a temp/placement agency and that ended up being great for me. Initially they placed me in a couple of different muti-week to month long temp placements and then finally after they had gotten some good feedback on me, they placed me in a full time job that I kept for 4 years until I was ready for law school. I know it’s not the question you asked, but it is something you could suggest to your child.
I think you have to figure out how much support will encourage and support Child’s job search and how much will enable Child to slack off on the job search or to be too choosy about which job to accept. That balance is different for every adult child. Too much support from parents and an unmarried partner is not a good thing, in my observation. These sources of support have enabled a young relative of mine to make very poor choices that have led to a lack of independence and growth. Ideally a young adult will not move in with a partner until both are financially self-supporting.
I have far more questions than answers.
My first question: what is the cost of living in your city versus Child’s city and what are job opportunities in each? Roughly, what would Child’s potential job pay?
Absent partner, would child want to be in that city long term?
If Child goes to grad school, does that graduate school usually lead to a lucrative career, or is it something like “get a MFA and teach writing”? Would you be paying for graduate school?
Would Child go to a graduate school in child’s current city? Again, what’s the cost of living?
Without an ounce of judgement: what is the status of the relationship between child and partner? Is this something that could go the distance, or are they living together because rent is expensive and it feels more adult to move in rather than have roommates?
Yeah, I see red flags in a young uncommitted couple’s living together, especially while one of them is still an undergraduate. This arrangement will make it much harder to break up if that’s what they need to do, and it will not be healthy for the developing relationship for one to be employed and one not to be.
Also re partner: which names are on the lease and when does it end? Is partner adulting and financially contributing or just along for the ride?
I wouldn’t fund an unsustainable lifestyle, but it could be that partner is already working in that city or has a job lined up there or the lease ends in June and already has new tenants moving in in July. If kid is living as a guest in someone else’s apartment, absent the relationship ending, she may just stay indefinitely (vs you are paying 100% of the rent, partner is the guest and is in a similar situation, and it’s month-to-month).
Some support is reasonable, contingent on them applying for jobs, working at least part time, volunteering, or interning. I don’t like unpaid or very poorly paid internships because they’re exploitative and allow kids like yours who can afford to take them while being supported by their parents to get ahead of kids who have to work to support themselves, but that’s a well established path to getting a foot in the door and it works for a lot of people in fields where it’s hard to find entry level jobs.
If I were the parent in this scenario and I were willing to have the child move back home, I would probably determine what level of support I would be providing if the child did move back home, quantify that, and consider whether that makes sense with the child living elsewhere.
I.e., I would not be paying additional rent or mortgage costs if they moved back home. I would be paying for incremental grocery and utility costs, health and auto insurance until they aged off my policies. I would keep them on my phone plan, but would not be buying them a fancy new device or paying for unlimited everything beyond what I use myself.
If I felt my child was sincerely trying to be a functional adult I would not begrudge them necessary support while they were figuring out how to take care of themselves and get their feet under themselves, assuming there is a reason they need to be in their current location in order to do this (job market, necessary resources that aren’t available at home, etc.). However, I would not subsidize their social life or enable them to enjoy an indefinite summer vacation. My thought is if the child cannot afford to handle the basic costs of living away from home themselves, then the child needs to move back home.
What are you currently providing?
If you are subsiding rent, I’d be inclined to continue for 6 months – 1 year if they are working/looking for work/volunteering/internshiping.
Beyond that, I’d do whatever is supportive of the mental health – gym membership/fitness class/art class, Therapist co-pay etc.
I think continuing financial assistance is reasonable if it doable because big life changes that disrupt routines can be hard on mental health and it’s better to get the post – college life stabilized without immediate financial stress if possible .
The lack of details makes it really hard to give an accurate response. For example I have a degree in sociology which is largely considered a ‘useless’ art but is actually the feeder degree for most policy jobs and is highly sought after for think tanks, government, and NGOs.
Really surprised no one has mentioned the Partner
I assume this is Child’s Partner? Are They good for child, do you have a good relationship with Them? Are they freeloading off of you?
Don’t subsidize the partner
Help your child
I don’t know the dollar amounts, but almost all my friends are subsidizing their 20 something kids living in big cities. Seems like the new norm.
I don’t think it’s a new norm. It’s been going on for at least a generation. When I was a new college grad I knew quite a few people who were getting parental support of some form. Now that I have kids I see grandparents in other families frequently paying for extracurriculars, teen kids’ cars, vacations, etc., even in solidly middle-class families. My parents are literally destitute and can’t give financial gifts, but even my frugal in-laws have helped several of their kids out with things like appliance purchases, estate planning fees, and family vacations.
Ugh — it pains me to read this (not the OP). Subsidizing like $1000/month to help them get started? I get in big cities, parents often front first + last month’s rent + security deposit when signing a lease (which is awfully generous) and may co-sign a lease at least initially, but I’m going to do a big gulp and ask you just what you are seeing in terms of length of funding and duration (and having nightmares that it will be like on Girls when she wants 100% funding for a few years to do nothing but write her memoirs).
What I am seeing is things like parent buys new grad a car and pays for the insurance for several years, parent makes 20-something an authorized user on parent’s credit card account so parent can pay for groceries, parent pays for multi-generational vacations or at least rents the beach house for the family vacation, parent pays for grad school, parent makes regular lump-sum cash gifts under the guise of avoiding estate taxes, parent pays the bill for grandkids’ ballet classes and camps.
The last one is common in my family as Christmas/birthday gifts. The others absolutely are not.
As a 20 something who has been financially independent since 17, I concur. Not a single friend of mine pays all their own bills.
Same except that I’m a 40-something who has been financially independent since 17.
Agree. I am older but many of my younger friends (late 20s and early 30s) receive significant support from their parents. In one case, that means paying the mortgage and property taxes, all bills and for things like new appliances and minor home upgrades. For others, it includes significant (and optional medical expenses) or new computers/phones and help with car payments. It doesn’t seem to make sense to me, because your 20s/early 30s should be prime working years (before family obligations make it tougher), but many of my friends don’t work full time or are comfortable with periods of unemployment in between jobs (none of which would be possible without funding from their parents). I should note that these people are good, honest people who are wonderful to be around. They are just growing up with a different approach/attitude toward work than what I have.
This is really surprising to me, and not my experience at all, even in upper middle class circles
This is in the category of parental confessions. A lot of people tell us these things because we don’t have kids but would never confess in their parent social circles. So you probably just don’t know it’s very common.
I feel that it’s common to stay on parental insurance until 26 and phone plans forever, but IMO that is small potatoes (especially for an older of several children, where parents would be paying for a family health plan anyway). What I am afraid to ask: after college (say $25K parental contribution a year), is there more that is common (like 10K/year indefinitely + a wedding at some point)? I would do in-kind help indefinitely (grandkids, assuming I’m retired, local, welcome) but I’d like to retire and 25K per kid ad infinitum is not what I’d ever considered budgeting for. Maybe bringing them with me on a vacation or something like that (renting a beach house).
Anon at 11:30 – I’m coming at this from the other generation, like few of my 20-something friends are getting financial support from family – maybe 10-20%? but could be a similar dynamic, and maybe it’s just not something they admit to.
But the comment at 11:48 made me realize I’m not counting stuff that the parent isn’t actually *paying* for, like (before pw sharing crackdown) using your parent’s Netflix login. If that counted, then a larger share
I had to send my mom a check every month for my phone share and car insurance share. I was only cut off from the benefit of shared plans when I got engaged.
I got on my work health plan when I was 22.
You just reminded me my parents sent me $200 each month when I had just got out of college because I accepted a job thinking I could find an apartment share for $800 but my half ended up being $1k. NYC 1999.
Length and reasonableness is probably not something you can dictate, especially if this is a mental health condition where someone must remain on meds for life.
First, I would determine costs for shelter for child and their immediate basic needs are. I wouldn’t cover any partner expenses. Decide how they’re splitting household bills and cover the child’s share with review every 6 months. My parents helped support me for several years during the recession and I wouldn’t have made it otherwise. I say this because it would have felt reasonable for them to have check ins if they felt I wasn’t doing anything to find a job.
I wouldn’t stress about the grad school thing. Most people gain from just getting in to a job. Ask what kind of help they’re getting from their career center with resumes and job leads. It’s a tough job market so I would focus on them just exploring different career options.
OP here. I am grateful for everyone’s thoughts and am taking them into consideration. I’ll add some context. Child’s partner is also on the apartment lease and dependably pays half of everything (also supported by parents), but would obviously be affected if we stopped paying Child’s half. Partner is in grad school. Child wants to stay in city regardless of partner status and it’s commuting distance to family home.
Child is welcome to move home but obviously would prefer to continue living in city apartment with partner.
Child has not always held up Child’s end of the bargain in terms of getting part-time jobs, taking summer classes, etc., but Child does not demand luxuries. Child has been given a lot of slack due to mental health struggles. Was it too much? I don’t know.
We paid all living expenses for Child’s older sibling during grad school so there is a precedent for financial support past college.
Also, while I am not 100% crazy about Child’s partner, I was in favor of cohabitation because Child has a history of (depression-induced, at least in part) inertia and class skipping and assignment ignoring. Partner is a serious student and I suspected Child would try to keep up. Child has. I don’t know if Partner is The One but I will forever credit Partner for helping push Child across the undergrad finish line.
This is about as good as could be hoped for. Is Partner in a program that he could be self-supporting after school? Like if he’s a permanent student, ugh. But I think that plenty of parents pay for a kid’s apartment (vs tuition) in grad school and those kids adult fine once they are done. None of my friends had parents pay for school, but plenty helped out with rent, etc. for a year or two in grad school (but not thereafter, but maybe helped them move by come up with the family truck and avoiding the expense of movers, etc.). Not that you have to deal with that now, but how long will grad school be and would they likely stay there or is the sort of college town where they might leave / part ways later on even if your kid gets a job there?
Child needs to figure out what their life looks like with mental health concerns. Is that an easier/lower paying job and a modest lifestyle in a LCOL? Is that pursuing different treatment with hopes of improving bough so they can withstand a lot of job stressors? They have what could be a chronic lifelong condition and need to figure out how they can be self supporting with it. I say this as a much older person with life long mental health concerns. It’s great that you’re being a safety net for them so they don’t have sacrifice their mental health to figure this out. So, I would set milestones of getting some career job even if it’s not what they want to do forever, with a part time job until then.
I don’t know but in my family, the kids who were helped the most are also the most helpless.
Have you set up a trust for the child and/or is that something you are interested in doing long term? I had in my 20s friends that were in similar situations to your child. A trust that paid out monthly at around 2x to 3x the federal poverty level was about the sweet spot to backstop their life while they still worked. More than that (based on my anecdotal sample size) was not much of a motivation in life.
I would say age 26 because you can keep them on your insurance until then. After that they should reassess – job, grad school, marriage, whatever. It’s a good “you’re not a kid anymore” age.
My concern would be the partner taking advantage of the situation/free meal ticket…
No free ride for Partner, who reliably pays half.
One question to think about is: Are Child’s living expenses in line with true entry level salaries in their field? Would they be financially self sufficient if they get *a* job, or are they assuming they’ll get a job at the median for all holders of their degree? (And if they haven’t thought this through, now’s a good time to start!)
If you can, I’d help with the approximate financial value of what they’d receive if they lived at home. So, half rent/utilities (since they live with someone) and a couple hundred bucks a month for groceries, car insurance, and gas.
I would say none. I don’t understand supporting an adult child (beyond letting them move home but contributing to the household). They picked a major and should live with the consequences. Other than parents paying for grad school, I also don’t know anyone who was subsidized in their 20s. I would definitely not support the partner.
Yeah I find this whole conversation insane. Child is old enough to play house with so-called partner but not pay their own way? Absolutely not. How embarrassing.
My son is ND and eligible for STABLE account and stuff like that. Might be worth looking into if you worry your child’s mental health issues will affect their life.
I guess I’m the lone poster to say that I am pretty shocked to hear how many people support their adult children in this way. I am a bit older, but my peers were not supported like this at all. We piled roommates into older apartments or shared houses and made do. Buying your children cars when they can’t even afford to pay their car insurance? Paying their entire rent when they could be living at home for free or with multiple roommates for cheaper? Even adults on this site still on their parents cell phone plan. I mean, my cell phone plan costs me $15/month. Just… why?
I similarly think it is crazy to have kids live at home for years so they can save up enough to “buy” something.
No wonder young people have such high (unrealistic?) expectations in life. Or I guess this is just young people from rich families? Otherwise what parents have this kind of disposable income when they should be saving like crazy for retirement.
OP, your daughter should be working ANY job to make enough money to cover her basic expenses. Do not start now offering her $1000+ per month subsidy. That gives her so little incentive to get moving. Great idea about contacting the temp agency. She should also be going to every college job fair, looking for part time work now to get something on her resume, and be willing to work multiple jobs to make money. Have her talk to every friend/family friend/teacher/counseling office to look for options. I mean, she can babysit/tutor/waitress to make pretty decent money while she is looking for a fulltime job, and can do those things on the side while she is working fulltime.
why is it so much easier to gain weight than lose weight? i know i need to be patient, but it is hard when it takes so much mental effort and the results appear so slowly…
Real. Weight loss is so effing hard, even when I’m trying my best. It wasn’t quite as difficult in my 20s and early 30s, but that is no longer the case.
As a menopausal woman, I can eat a salmon filet and some steamed veggies, a couple of apples, oat milk in one cup of a.m. coffee, and a barely dressed salad, or the functional equivalent of all that, or I gain weight. It sucks. I’m short and that makes it harder, which also sucks. Due to some health conditions I cannot exercise strenuously or for long, which sucks some more. I’ve lost 35 lbs with compounded terzepatide. It has had the lovely feature of making food uninteresting to to me and thus enabling me to stay at 1000 to 1200 calories a day. I have a two month supply of terzepatide and no more refills thanks to an FDA that dances to the tune that big pharma dictates. The FDA sucks too.
I’m also post menopausal. I just want to recommend a daily walk. I am not talking strenuous. You don’t have to be a gym bunny. But the walk just helps the metabolism and I have been surprised how it helped me lose weight when it seemed like I wasn’t eating much.
It’s also great for mental health!
I mean, there can be different reasons. Insulin resistance is a factor for a lot of people. A lot of people continue to feel hungry until they’ve hit their micronutrient intake requirements, even if they’ve already gotten enough calories. Now that we understand how GLP-1 one medications work, researchers are looking at how certain food additives and crop pesticides actually block endogenous GLP-1 production and potentially therefore interfere with weight management. Etc.
Compounded semaglutide has completely removed this source of stress from my life.
in the past week or two, my wrists have really started bothering me when typing at home and at work. i have an ergonomic keyboard, i have one of those pads for my arms/wrists to rest on. any ideas?
Rest if you can and anti-inflammatories (I like naproxen/Aleve).
Do you have an ergonomic mouse? I find the side-to-side movement of using a traditional mouse really adds to my wrist pain, even if I don’t feel it right away.
I have an Evoluent mouse, which I love. It is tall, so my wrist is in a handshake position, and I can program the 6 buttons for certain functions. I have one button set as “double-click” which is amazing and saves my carpel tunnel. I highly recommend.
How much have you been playing on your phone? That’s always the culprit for me.
I’d suggest seeing an ortho. It could be carpal tunnel, ergonomics, repetitive stress injury, arthritis or something else.
Are you pregnant by any chance? I had to get the drugstore carpal tunnel sleeve to sleep in during both of mine.
A PSA and recommendation for my fellow ladies who have large thighs at any size: Levi’s 726 flare jeans. I am pleasantly surprised by how much I like them. They have just enough stretch to go over my curves, and I don’t feel cut in half even though they’re technically a high rise. I would like to be that person who wears a structured 100% cotton jean but that is not the journey for me. I usually wear a 32 but sized up to 33 for more comfort through the midsection, which has been a real challenge with high-rise pants. And, being able to choose an inseam length is so helpful (I’m 5’8″, sometimes I need a tall, sometimes a regular). My jeans search lately has been awful and has led to a lot of bad feelings about my body, so this feels like a win.
I still cannot with ankle-length anything; it looks so out of proportion on my frame.
Thanks!
This is super helpful. Are you willing to share your waist & hip measurements? Or what pants size you typically wear in other brands?
I’m reliably a 14 in most brands and occasionally size up to 16 in pants when needed. I am terrible at knowing my actual measurements!
Thank you! I need new jeans and am a similar size. Levi has been a past hit for me, so it sounds like these are worth checking out!
Ooh great, I’ve been looking for flares that come in petites. I hate the raw edge trend though, if I wanted that I’d just cut them off myself.
I posted about my concerns with my higher ed career in light of the recent federal changes this weekend. If she’s reading, thank you to anon at 3:09 for your thoughtful post. While I am not totally confident in the future, your words did help calm the worst of my fears. At the very least, I think I have some time to figure this out.
Air Traffic Cuts: The next thing I suggest raising with your representatives is the Air Traffic probationary cuts.
Do any of you use a framework or some type of daily agenda to help you properly focus your time on different responsibilities?
Sometimes it feels like I spend too much time trying to plan and prioritize my projects so I don’t forget any of them that it takes away from the time I can dedicate to actually doing those things.
Travel question: We are planning a road trip to Oregon this summer and will be stopping off in Sacramento for one night. Any hotel/restaurant recommendations?
We also want to stop at the Oregon Shakespeare Festival in Ashland on the way home. Again, hotels? Restaurants? Sights other than the theatre?
Thanks in advance — you ladies always have the best suggestions!
There is not much nice in Sacramento. For dining options, Alicia Lund’s blog has had ideas. Hotels, there’s a Hyatt or something in the downtown that’s serviceable.
Here you go
https://alicia-lund.com/travel/where-to-eat-drink-sacramento-city-guide/
If you have options, I’d consider staying in San Francisco instead.
Thanks! We are choosing Sacramento because we’re driving up the 5 (spending the second night at Crater Lake), but I hear you.
I would stop in Weed instead. The Weed Motel is quite comfortable, and their diner is fantastic. Massive breakfast. There’s a creek that runs along one side of the property, and its rushing water makes for a nice night-time distraction.
(Weed is 625 miles from Pasadena. With a gas stop or two, and lunch at a Mexican hole-in-the-wall in Lathrop, I usually pull in around 6:30.)
Ha! My dad was born in Weed! Great idea!
I should have said Hi-Lo Motel in Weed. I first read about it in Sunset magazine, and I’ve been staying 1-2 times a year ever since.
There is a Kimpton in Sacramento.
I had an excellent dinner at the bar at Kru last month in Sacramento! Highly recommend.
This might not work for you because it’s not right in Ashland (instead it’s outside Medford, about a 30 min drive away), but on a road trip through Oregon I stayed at the Hummingbird Estate and loved it. It was peaceful and relaxing. Highly recommend!
Wow, thanks!
I love the Rogue valley! Go to Rogue Creamery for their blue cheese (we still get it shipped to us years later). Troon was by far our favorite of the wineries. I had an incredible meal at Mas (reserve now). Hike Crater Lake and wander through Lithia Park (go far, past the festival area).
And we stayed at Ashland Creek Inn; walking distance to downtown, quiet, nice rooms, great breakfast.
Sacto is odd. Have had lovely meals at Paragary and the Kimpton hotel is very nice. Don’t plan on walking around after dark if you stay in that neighborhood.
What are your favorite little icebreakers? We have a neighborhood dinner group, and it’s our turn to host, and the tradition is that there’s always a little game/icebreaker before dinner. For example, last month’s was to grab a penny out of a jar and tell the group something funny that happened to you the year of that penny. Do you have any you like? Thanks.
A friend introduced dinner manifestations. You say a current goal as if it’s a certainty. Not “my goal is” but “this will happen.” The first time we did this, I’d just found out I was pg but it was too early to NIPT, so my dinner manifestation was, I will have a healthy baby.
I like to play what’s your superpower. I believe everyone has a superpower. Mine is that if I’m waiting for someone, I just have to excuse myself for a minute and they’ll show up. It’s become something of a running joke with friends because I’m the punctual one, always the first to arrive, but I’m never actually at the table when everyone else shows up. I summoned them with my superpower.
One that was a big hit at work was having everyone take a “which Muppet are you?” quiz and then having the rest of the group try to guess the results. Even more hilarious if everyone has read the Unified Muppet Theory article beforehand.
Favorite K-12 teacher and why?
If you won the lottery today and could do anything else for a living, what would it be?
What is the best (or worst advice) you’ve received from someone when you were younger?
One of my favorites is if you had 1,000 lives, how would you spend them? I keep it open-ended, and sometimes the clarifying questions spark more conversation than the actual alternates lives people choose! (Any time period in history? Do I know I get 1,000 lives? Do I get to keep my knowledge and skills acquired in different lives? Any location in the world? etc. etc.)
Obviously, no one actually shares 1,000 lives, but the point is the possibility and plays on the “if only I had a thousand lives” lament.
This one is always a hit, give each person a piece of paper (but dont tell them what for). Once they are all passed out, they have 1 minute to tear it into the shape of the state where they grew up (or other variations: went to college/were born in/favorite state/last vacation). Time them for 1 minute. Everyone goes around and guesses the states.
V2 of this- everyone tears their paper into Australia and you vote on whose is best
What’s your phone wallpaper and why? last time you danced and to what? When you were 5 what did you want to be when you grew up?
Two truths and a lie is always fun.
(My superpower is that if you ask me to give a talk and give me a time limit, I will always finish exactly on time.)
I like, what did you want to be when you grew up when you were ten years old?
What fictional character would you invite to this dinner party?
Good conversation starters at recent business dinners were – What was your first or most memorable concert and celebrity siting.
The guy I’m dating says I dress in “old lady clothes.” I’m 40. My taste runs to Ann Taylor and Nordstrom, and I like what I wear. My response to him was basically #dealwithit.
But even if I wanted to make a change, I’m not even sure what it would mean to dress “younger.” Any ideas what that would even mean?
I’m mid-40s and about to be single again
My clothes are very work oriented, not date oriented.
I think that’s what old lady means – modest, classic styles, appropriate for work.
If that’s your date look, that’s ok
But consider some (cheaper) pieces that go with your current style to show some skin and look a little more featured, main character, not “focus on my work”.
Or ask him
Thanks, that’s helpful!
Does this guy have redeeming qualities? That’s really rude to tell a date.
He does have many. But I agree, it was rude, and I shut it down in the moment.
It’s not that rude. I tell my partner when his clothes are on my nerves all the time. He doesn’t care, and wears the replacements I buy him when his garments wear out. That’s the fun part about being intimate w someone. You get to tell them things.
Yeah but does he do the same to you? Obviously men aren’t judged on their appearance and fashion sense the same way men are.
I do this with my fiancé. He stopped wearing shorts with holes and pants that are 15 years old and I bought him new clothes. However, this is my fiancé not a guy I’m just dating.
I don’t know– I think point out that someone is wearing clothing that’s literally worn out is way different from telling someone they’re wearing “old lady clothes,” which is just a different style.
yea this seems super rude to me
I guess it depends? My significant other tells me this all the time. I know I dress from brooks brothers and can sometimes read as frumptastic, but I like my clothes and it’s fine. It’s not like I’d look better chasing trends, so ehhh.
So it sounds like your response to your significant other saying this is to ignore them/not care, and continue dressing as you please?
Correct! Your style will evolve however you choose. I wouldn’t pick anything to please someone else the same way I would never wear new trends don’t work for my age or body. But if it happens organically, great.
Yes, someone who doesn’t like you as you are is not someone you want to partner up with.
This is dumb dude speak for I like your body a lot and want you to dress more $exy. It could be fun to go shopping together! Nordstrom has fun “younger” stuff too.
That resonates.
But how would I identify the “younger” stuff at Nordstrom, going back to my original question. Ask the salesperson, I guess? Obviously whatever I would gravitate toward is not youthful.
Describe a typical date look and we can try to find you more youthful equivalents. Like even if you prefer more modest styles, a silk blouse unbuttoned lower with wide-legged jeans reads younger than a crewneck sweater and black pants.
When he made the comment yesterday, I was wearing black boot-cut jeans and a red V-neck half-sleeve cotton top with gray flats.
More form fitting, lower cut, on trend (you can go look at what younger celebs are wearing). You still need to be comfortable of course, but that’s why I suggested shopping together. He can help you figure it out too. Or yea get a Nordstrom stylist and say you want some fresher date night looks.
The outfit you described sounds kind of plain tbh. Try mixing it up with different fabrics if you’re comfortable wearing other than cotton. Get a silky button down and unbutton it a bit lower than you normally would on date night. Get a cool leather jacket to throw over your cotton top. Get some street wear sneaks instead of your plainer flats.
Hmmm… that does sound kind of office-appropriate for a date. Like swap in cute sneakers for the gray flats, and a softer sweater instead of a cotton top?
Thanks, all, I appreciate the thoughtful feedback. I think I am objectively a bad dresser, but the thought of “trying” to dress better and failing is also pretty daunting. Most likely I will just continue being dowdy, and if it doesn’t work for him, I’ll either be single or find someone it does work for.
Well, this is a fashion blog, so you probably have some interest in clothes, yes? Since you shop at Nordstrom’s, why don’t you make an appointment with one of their personal shoppers and tell them you are interested in getting some casual looks for weekends/dating. Let them know your usual style and see what they bring…
The guy’s a jerk but your outfit isn’t great. Red top and black pants is a dated color combo. Half sleeves are unflattering and not stylish- go short sleeve or three quarter sleeve. All cotton shirts tend to be shapeless. Flats are rarely cute- get some flat or low heeled booties.
I don’t care how unstylish OP is, that’s controlling behavior. Get out now before you emotionally invest.
The outfit sounds fine. And it sounds like OP is ok w fine. Going out of your way to wear booties if booties aren’t your thing is dumb. Some people (me) need my shoes to be slip on or they aren’t getting worn.
I don’t know what a half sleeve is—isn’t that the same as 3/4? I hate anything by my wrist so everything long gets rolled up anyway.
Hayl no. Giving a dude control over my attire? That’s my public image. We’re not talking about, “Honey, do you like the green top or the blue top better for tonight?”, changing your style to be more revealing to please a man is ICK.
OMG going shopping together means picking out clothes TOGETHER. Not him telling her what to do. It can be fun, it’s not automatically controlling good grief.
But also, the OP doesn’t have to do anything, but asked us! So we answered!
I agree with this take.
Dump him.
Then throw him back into the swamp!
How come people are accepting this comment from the boyfriend as valid?! What the heck…this is not 1950. Even in 1960, women were realising that comments like this were a helpful red flag!
OP, watch for other red flags while you put the relationship on the back burner. This does not bode well.
she asked?? the post is essentially “hey, my date brought this up, he sucks and I told him so, but is there a kernel of truth that my outfits are boring?”
Agree, and more importantly, if there is, where do I even start to fix it. I mean, this is a fashion blog, so “what you wear shouldn’t matter to your man bc feminism” doesn’t really apply here.
Just trying to save you from coming back here in a few years with a “should I divorce him” post.
Yeah I think she has a choice to want to dress more on-trend if she wants to, for sure, for her SO or for herself or her image
People need to get a grip. It’s not controlling or ab*sive to signal that you’d like your partner to dress in a more sexy way, or whatever else. It’s extremely normal to give hints about things you would find attractive. Whether it’s rude to tease you for dressing like “an old lady” is a different question that really depends on the specific dynamic of your relationship. My spouse and I don’t communicate like this but I know plenty of others that do.
It can go either way – “I love looking at you, and I ~especially~ love looking at you in that blouse/that color/with your hair down; can you do more of that?” is one end of the spectrum. There are, also, frustratingly, guys out there who will criticize your looks as an intentional strategy, to make you feel less confident and more dependent on them. If OP’s getting “situation 1” vibes; ask him to come shopping with you and help pick out stuff he thinks you look great in sounds like a good idea; if “situation 2” vibes, run run run.
So I do not think you need to dress more revealing. You need to dress more fun and not like you’re at work. Ask yourself, would I wear this 1) to work or 2) to brunch with a bunch of old people who work with me? If the answer is yes, I don’t think it’s a date outfit. Like you could wear jeans, boots or fashionable sneakers, and a soft sweater, with some cute jewelry, and I don’t think he’s be saying you’re dressed like an old lady. But you don’t need to bare a lot of skin.
Haha it’s hard for me to imagine a sweater and jeans that I wouldn’t wear around my “old” coworkers. (Who, as I’m 40, would be at most 20 or so years older than me? Is the sweater transparent? Does it have a huge cartoon cat on it? This is why I struggle with this “dress younger” question, how can a sweater and jeans be “young”? I own sweaters, I own jeans. There’s got to be more to it that I’m missing.
It’s the cut and shape of the sweaters and pants, the materials, etc. A trendy slouchy dolman sleeve sweater looks far more “young” than your run of the mill cotton cabled crew sweater from Lands End.
Correct. Maybe the better question is: would your 60 year old co-worker buy and wear this? If so, do not wear on date.
At what point should you just start owning your style though? My sweaters are LL bean-esque and I wear them to work and also out to dinner. It’s just my vibe at this point.
Is the point of caring about trying to look sexually attractive instead of just comfortable in your own skin? Like it wouldn’t matter if the OP doesn’t ask?
Of course she and you can embrace whatever style you want. The question was about what clothes would look younger/how to identify clothes that read younger – that’s what some of us are trying to help her with! If she doesn’t want to change cool. But it sounded like she was curious and might want to try.
That guy is rude.
I ran into this a few times when I was dating. I was surprised how many men reacted negatively to my work attire when they knew I was coming directly from work. Like no I didn’t change to meet you at 5:30 for a drink. I think men think that you’ll get dolled up if you’re into them, and if you don’t it’s because you’re not into them. I’m willing to have a Date Night outfit or two, but I’m a real person with a real life and if they can’t accept that then we’re not a good match.
Some of us are most comfortable as classic dressers. I have gotten that feedback before from my sisters, and welp, I guess I don’t care enough to change. When I try younger, flirtier, whatever, I feel like I’m in costume. So if a dude gave me that feedback, I would not take it well.
Same on both counts. I’m a classic dresser and won’t put on clothes that don’t feel authentic to my personality (boring and ok w it.)
Also check out a clothing rental like Nuuly. I was finding it hard to stay on trend (I’m 42, btw), especially for fun or date night clothes. This way I can try out different trends and styles that I wouldn’t want to invest in and my boyfriend honestly loves the fun variety. I also agree with the other posters that it’s ok for your bf to express an opinion without it being controlling or anti-feminist. My bf hates what he refers to as mom jeans because he thinks they’re unflattering and loves how I look in skinny jeans. I don’t want to wear skinnies anymore because they make me feel dated, but I’ll save my wide leg jeans for a fun friends night and pick a slimmer cut for date night. It’s ok to compromise or for you to want your bf to find you attractive without having to sacrifice your style, so long as it’s said in a respectful and helpful way.
I’m 42 as well. Aren’t we too old to stay on trend instead of adopting a style? I feel like the point of trends is to try lots of things when you’re younger so that you can adopt your style through trial and error. I’ve always been conscious of the phrase (yes I know it’s awful) mutton dressed as lamb.
Assuming, for the sake of argument, that he is just bad at expressing himself and not a raging, flaming misogynist, he probably means lower-cut tops and more form-fitting clothes and/or high spiky heels. But seriously, #dealwithit is the correct response.
Looking to plan a camping trip in Vermont this summer. I’ve only been in the winter for skiing, and partner teen have never been. Selected because it’s driving distance from our home and the only New England state they haven’t been to. Any suggestions for what part(s) of the state to visit/teen-friendly activities? She loves hiking, rock climbing, and anything adventurous.
Partner and teen daughter
The Ben & Jerry’s factory tour is great. Burlington is extremely cute, in general with a nice pedestrian area.
+1 on Burlington being delightful although I’m not sure it’s outdoorsy enough for OP.