Thursday’s Workwear Report: Shawl-Collar One-Button Blazer

283 Comments

1. Elizabeth, congratulation’s for making such great suggestions and for making it a point to focus on plus size clothes, as many of us professionals simply do not have the time or energy to work out and diet to be like Gizelle Bunchkin. I read an article about Alec Baldwin’s wife having 4 kids and running her own busness, and I said great, but she does NOT have to sit 12 hours behind a computer screen cranking out breifs, like we do, and she probably has a host of staff to do all of the housework, changing diapers, doing laundry, cleaning the house, etc, etc., freeing her up to nuzzle up with her hubby, who has the time to ride his bicycle to SO HO and get into occasional trouble when the news picks up the story.

   The vast majority of us have to work our tuchuses off to get the money to fund our 401k’s and pay the rent, let alone buy stuff to run our daily lives, so thank you for understanding this in your clotheing selections. Although I am not buying plus sizes yet, my mom and Grandma Trudy both are, and b/c I have their genes, I expect that I will also follow suit and have a larger tuchus in the next 5-10 years, particularly if I stay working as a partner with all of the billings I must do. FOOEY even though I love my job, b/c it is my job that is probably at least partially responsible for my tuchus!

2. Styling advice needed….what shoes do you wear in the fall with skinny jeans and a blazer? Before it gets cold and booties are the only thing we wear….flats? Loafers? Heels? Block heels? Athletic shoes?

   1. All of the above, depending on where I’m going and how formal or casual I want to look. Mostly I default to cute flats, though.

   2. I love the preppy look of blazers + loafers, but any cute flat would work.

   3. Heels… but I don’t really own many flats. Today, wearing skinny jeans and a funky jacket with suede booties, but thought about Coach Smith pumps with beadchain.

   4. I like low block heels, pointed toe flats, or smoking slipper style flats.

      I don’t like traditional high heels with skinny jeans – the proportions feel off / trying too hard IMHO.

   5. Flats, or if it’s dressy (like for a night out, not work), heels. I see others wear athletic shoes with skinny jeans but I rarely do that myself. In real life, I end up wearing yoga pants and athletic shoes or jeans and flats.

   6. I wear nice sneakers with that combo a lot. I got some bronze converse (not canvas) a couple of years ago, and I have a pair of nice brown leather sneakers. I also like oxfords or pointy-toe flats if it’s dressier. I don’t wear heels that often in general.

   7. OP here, thank you all….very helpful. I prefer a heel and block heels look very current

   8. Mules! I’ve been wearing Everlane penny loafer mules every day. I also adore the look of their “day heels” but they don’t fit me.

      1. Do your feet slap every time you step like in flip flops? That’s what I can’t stand about low to flat mules. But maybe it’s my feet or the way I’m walking?

         1. I lived through the 90s. It’s not you.

3. My company any is pretty lax and people work from home whenever they want / need to (within reason). It feels so weird! Should I still send an email to my boss asking? telling? that I am?

   1. Are you a new hire? If so, I would ask how your boss wants you to handle moving forward.

   2. Don’t ask. Update your chat software with a message saying where you are and let you boss know “hey I’m WFH today and tomorrow. Chat if you need me.” Done.

      1. This is so company dependent. Mine doesn’t even use chat software, so it’s not like this is the only or normal approach everywhere.

   3. No, I’d ask your boss what the group norms are for communicating availability and whereabouts. My company is like this and we use our internal status to reflect where we are, and my department uses a shared calendar for more detail internally to the group. An email from my reports would drive me nuts for something that’s a normal part of our workflow. It would be akin to asking permission to wear jeans everyday.

      1. +1, it’s not weird to ask your manager for direction on this, as well as discussing any general expectations for balancing in-office vs. WFH time.

         1. Especially since you are new. I think it’s better to ask than assume the privilege from your observations. There may be arrangements you don’t know about.

      2. +1 This is such a normal thing to ask about. Please don’t use any of these indirect approaches that could lead to a awkward conversation down the line if you misunderstood the norms.

   4. I might start off by saying “Hey boss, I’d like to work from home on Thursday, is that okay?” at first, and then if the boss okay with it pretty much all the time, I’d move to saying “Hey boss, just giving you a heads-up that I plan on working from home on Thursday” or “I’m working from home today, I’m available by phone/email/chat.” Your boss might even say, before you change your approach, that you don’t need to ask as long as you let them know ahead of time.

   5. My company is like this too and I don’t tell anyone generally (not does anyone else) because 99% of our communications are done via email anyway

   6. Mine is similar – I usually send an email to my manager that’s says like, FYI I’m working from home today in case you’re looking for me.

4. Are there any basic flash card apps for language learning? All I want to do is work on vocab, but all I can find so far has all these creative lessons and sound effects and native speakers pronouncing things and that’s more than I need at the moment. Any tips?

   1. Quizlet

   2. I use mute Duolingo. You can do it on the settings and then I also turn off my phones volume.

   3. Anki is good if someone else has created a good set of cards (and often they have, sometimes keyed to a particular textbook or language program).

   4. Drops is a fun quick app for this. It gives you 5 minutes at a time. Its matching vocab and pictures.

5. I feel like I’m already basic level green (reusable shopping bags, sandwich baggies, water bottles, straws and utensils only; mostly walk or rage public transit, only drive when there’s no other option; do as much paper free as I can; eat less meat than I previously did (1 meal a day max, not even always that); limit single use containers as much as possible , etc)

   However, I 100% feel that I’m not doing enough. What else are you doing to be green that maybe I could adopt?

   I firmly believe that as individuals there’s only so much we can do and that the onus lies on corporations and I’m brainstorming ways to work on that.

   So, in the meantime. What else can I do? Do you know of any good websites etc that discuss this without being sanctimonious and zero waste?

   1. Oh, also I use reusable keurig pods and would highly recommend

   2. Avoid unnecessary online shopping – like constantly ordering stuff with 2-day Prime shipping, plus shopping consignment stores for high quality second hand clothes vs buying new. ‘Fast fashion’ uses a lot of energy to produce and generates a lot of waste from unsold items.

   3. No advice but “rage public transit” is my new favorite phrase.

      1. Mine too!

      2. My city just implemented a rapid-transit bus system and yeah there’s a lot of raging going on.

         1. I think we live in the same city and it’s hilarious to me how excited people are about it. It almost seems like a plot out of Parks & Rec.

   4. Are you saying that you use or don’t use baggies, water bottles, straws, and utensils?

      1. Looks like she uses reusable forms of all of these.

   5. Limit electricity use around your home. Turn off lights when you aren’t in the room. Shut down your computer when you aren’t using it for a long stretch. Look into improving insulation.

      Forgo fast fashion.

   6. Compost and reduce food waste by meal planning.
      Buy whatever food you can local at a farmers market.
      Minimize the amount of packaged foods you buy.
      Use less/no AC.
      Think twice before buying anything new and three times before buying something online (although if you have a long drive to buy in person, online might be better – I don’t drive at all so I always tend towards brick & mortar when practical).

      I love this question and am looking forward to others’ ideas!

      1. We’ve had this question a ton lately so you might want to search the archives too.

   7. Composting. I live in a high rise and use a service that comes and gets my food scraps and takes them to a land trust, but you can backyard compost if you have the space or use a small composter if you don’t have a yard/access to a service.

   8. Think twice before upgrading electronics. Most of the emissions from a mobile phone come on the production stage, so by using it for three years instead of two beforehand upgrading you’re cutting your impact significantly.

      Also look at how your 401k/ pension pot/ however you describe your retirement savings is invested. See if your provider offers an ESG weighted fund and decide if you want to shift even a part of your investments into it.

   9. Do you compost? There are compost services that will pick up compost regularly–mine does it on a bike, so low emissions! Since I started composting, I’ve been much more conscious about buying whole fruits and veggies at the grocery store instead of anything packaged in plastic. I don’t put my apples, lettuce, etc. in any bags at all and I don’t buy pre-cut veggies. The amount of single-use non-recyclable plastic used on foods is pretty astounding when you start noticing. It’s really hard to be committed 100% to no food plastic.

      Also, eliminating fast fashion.

   10. Sounds like you’re doing a lot. Well done!
       You’re reminding me I need to mind my plastic bag use. I have reusable produce bags and NEVER remember them. I can do better. I even falter on the easier to remember reusable grocery bags. Again, I can do better.
       I do some of the below, suck at others, and am eyeing the rest wondering if i need to do them:
       -Food waste: Compost (does your city have a service? Do you have space to compost at your place? There are products available for small to large composting efforts. I compost, as I have a yard. I took a master class on it offered by my city and it was fantastic and motivating.
       – Buying used clothing as appropriate: I have so little luck finding used items, but other friends and family seem to discover treasure every time they go shopping. Alternately, wear what you have as long as possible.
       – Toothbrushes: switching out to non plastic options
       – Using biodegradable detergents and soaps for laundry, dishes, hands, body, etc. I cheat and add a dab of something non bio friendly to the detergent mix when I’m washing gym clothes, but otherwise it’s biodegradable detergents and soaps as much as possible.
       – If you own a house: spend the money and time on weatherproofing so when you do run the heating or AC you are getting the most out of it for your living space. there are environmentally friendly insulation on the market if you’re willing to look. Along those lines keep the house a little warmer in summer and a little colder in winter. Depending on your location YMMV.

       If your brainstorming yields any ideas let us know!

       1. I have almost entirely quit using produce bags at all. If I get something very wet (like parsley or cilantro) then I might but otherwise, I just put it in the basket. Getting the curbside people to play this game is harder, though!

   11. Think twice before buying anything, and always try to find it used/borrow the item before buying new.
       Don’t order items online if it is something you can buy locally.
       Cut down/eliminate food waste in your house.
       Reusable napkins and towels instead of paper.

   12. A tip I learned here, adopted, and love, is not to put trash in my personal office trash can. Often the staff who removes trash from offices takes the whole bag and puts in a larger bin, then replaces the trash can liner with a fresh bag. By emptying my trash into the office’s kitchen trash, I get more steps in and prevent a new liner being put in my personal office’s trash daily. Not a huge difference in the grand scheme of things, but it’s a really easy one.

       1. I didn’t see this tip before. Love this idea because it prevents me from sitting too long as well.

   13. Plan meals with ingredients that are local and in season.
       If you have a yard/garden, as you replant, replant with native species.

   14. Okay, this is a genuine question and not at all intended to cause controversy. But where does the research really come down on foregoing meat for the environment these days? Are more sustainable meats from local sources really that awful?

       1. There was a much-publicized UN report on this recently. It was written by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change. Got a lot of publicity in August. Check it out.

       2. All research I’ve seen says we consume way too much meat and dairy. Ruminants (cow, goat, sheep) are worse because they produce lots of methane. Pig and chicken don’t do that, but factory farming in general produces a lot of pollution, incentivizes farming of monocultures, uses up more resources than the production of vegetarian food and creates big problems with overuse of antibiotics.
          A recent study calculated what food mix would be long term sustainable for the planet and healthy for most people, and it did include a modest amount of meat and dairy, but, unsurprisingly, more veggies, legumes and nuts than our average diet.
          https://www.thelancet.com/commissions/EAT

          1. This is to say, sustainably farmed meat can be less bad, but replacing factory farmed meat with an equal amount of organic meat is definitely not enough. Fortunately, sustainable farming is more expensive, so it’s usually also consumed in smaller amounts with less waste. We need less meat consumption globally, and developing nations tend to increase their meat consumption. I’m trying to reduce but I think it’s unrealistic for me to go vegan anytime soon, so I appreciate everyone who is and pulls down the global average of meat consumption.

             1. Vegan or vegetarian?

             2. I eat vegetarian about two thirds of the time. My meat consumption is well in line with the lancet recommendations. I still eat more than my fair share of dairy, and am working on reducing. So, I’m close to vegetarian but nowhere near vegan.
                I look at it in global averages: we all need to get to a sustainable consumption pattern together, so a strict vegan in a way makes up for someone else’s overconsumption. Some of my habits are very green and some aren’t. I am lucky that I can walk to work, but seeing my parents means a long-haul flight. Not all choices are equally attainable for all. I try to do my best and if someone is able to live extremely low impact, I appreciate that and see if I can adopt some of the choices.

   15. Don’t have children, or at least have fewer. Literally the greenest thing you can do

       1. Who will change my diapers when I’m old? Someone else’s child? A robot?

          1. I love how everyone assumes their children will be functional, productive adults who WANT to take care of them. Your child may (god forbid) not make it to adulthood, have serious mental/physical/substance abuse problems that make them barely able to care for themselves, may move thousands of miles away from you, may become estranged for whatever reason.

             It’s foolish to think that only the childed will receive necessary care when they are old and it’s foolish if your only plan for aging is “My kid will take care of me!!”

             I mean, have kids if you want them, not as an eldercare strategy. But having children beyond replacement does take a toll on the environment.

             1. +1. For a roundup of research on how having kids is not an eldercare strategy, there’s a new book out called Child-Free By Choice. Also challenges lots of other popular beliefs about why people need to have kids.

             2. We are already not having children at the replacement level.

                So at some point, we will be like Japan — many old and sick adults who are no longer working and fewer young people. Those young people will have to care for us and support us through tax payments for medicare / social security and that will be a heavy burden on them (since there are fewer of them, each share is higher). Couple that with student loans, etc. and their lives are going to be rough.

                I am not sure that fewer children is the answer. Maybe the answer is “don’t have 9 kids,” but it’s not like that is happening, either. I don’t think that having a 2nd kid is a problem (still below replacement rate) and 3 might help social security / medicare / safety net programs not run out of $ so fast.

             3. + a million. My job as a parent is to enable my child to be a healthy functional member of society, I don’t WANT them to ‘have’ to take care of me when I’m old. And that’s assuming A LOT of favorable outcomes (no illness, death, mental or physical health issues, etc.) for my child. A child is not a retirement plan!

             4. Right? As humans live longer, the likelihood of their kids being able to handle the logistics of their care shrinks. Sure, I’d love to have taken care of my parents at home. But the fact is that they couldn’t navigate a house with stairs and couldn’t be left alone with a gas stove, and I didn’t have the skills to administer their daily medical treatments.

                I love how this board wants to play at being green, but the reality of actual effective suggestions is too much for people to handle. (And yes, I AM childfree, and the environment was a huge part of the decision.)

             5. Anon at 10:56- this is just kicking the can down the road. We have to stop growing the human population, and in fact drastically reduce it. The model of constant growth and constant need for the bigger, younger population supporting the older small population has to stop. The Earth cannot support the amount of humans on the planet. That is what the science tells us. I get frustrated that there is still a “have children” bias in the world- somehow the right to have children is seem by some as more important than the Earth.

                Having a second kid is replacing you and your partner (if you have a partner). That is replacement rate, on a micro level.

             6. I think not having 4-5, etc kids is a fine environmental strategy but “not having kids” is not great advice.

                Those who choose to not have kids (which is a fine and valid choice!) do rely on the kids that the rest of us are having. It’s easy to be high and mighty about not having children but for both economic and personal reasons (your doctor, your caretaker, the person who mows your lawn once you’re no longer able to, etc are all someone’s children and you’ll be benefiting from your peers children when you age) people need to keep having children

             7. Anon@10:56, not sure what you mean. The world population is still growing, so is the US population. Both growth rates have gotten smaller, but we’re still having children at beyond replacement.
                Japan’s population is shrinking btw.

          2. You’d better hope someone figures out diaper-changing robots, because there’s a huge shortage of personal care workers now.

             1. Right!

                There won’t be enough kids to look after all the parents, and we can’t get good paid personal care attendants now.

                Nobel Prize for diaper changing robot (easy maybe for kids diaper but try a grownup who may weigh 200 pounds and require detailed cleaning after a #2).

          3. Hopefully a trained aide you pay. I fervently hope to spare my children that burden.

             1. Those trained aides are someone’s children.

             2. Yes obviously? It’s different taking care of a stranger with some level of detachment than your own parent.

             3. Immigrants will be willing do these roles if we let them come

             4. You still need someone’s child to take care of you – yours or another person’s. So the nonsense about not procreation is obviously foolish.

          4. I have 3 kids and I hope someone else’s child or diaper changing robots will be taking care of me! That is not what I want for any of my kids.

          5. Yeah, I have two kids but they’ll never be taking care of me. I’m saving aggressively so I can afford help. Hopefully I can save for both private college and my own end of life, but I’d rather make my kids take out college loans and/or go to cheaper schools than force them change my diapers when I’m old and they have their own families.

          6. What a horrible idea, Anonymous. Why would I want or expect my children to change my diapers? Assuming that I was no longer able to manage my money, I’d expect they’d be using MY money (and not theirs) to pay for a caregiver to do my personal care. That’s why I save aggressively.

   16. First of all, what you’re doing is awesome, please don’t kill yourself trying to be perfectly green! If everyone did what you’ve been doing, or even a portion of what you’ve been doing, the world would be a better place. So please be kind to yourself. But if you honestly want to be doing more, I’d look into:

       – composting (either doing it yourself or looking into local food scrap pickup options)
       – making sure you’re only upgrading electronics – phones, tablets, televisions, computers, appliances, vacuum cleaners, air conditioners, even cars, etc. – when you absolutely need a new one

       And the big one, I think: if you have a yard and it’s mostly lawn, consider a more eco-friendly yard setup. Some grass is fine if it serves a purpose, but if you’ve got a lot of grass that no one sets foot on unless it’s to mow and water it, consider something else. Plant more trees, we need those! Plant some veggies, herbs, maybe even fruit if your climate allows, and bees love flowers.

       1. OP here – I drive an ‘02 (and plan on driving it until I have children in 5-7+ years), my phone is an SE, and I have the same laptop since college. This is partially due to financial constraints but glad it also works out to bring green!

          1. Sorry, shouldn’t have assumed you weren’t already doing that! I got the inspiration from someone else here who said something similar. I also put off phone upgrades and drive the car I have until it basically can’t be repaired (or it wouldn’t make sense to keep fixing it) and it’s not for green reasons either, I can’t justify constantly upgrading to the newest version of what I have, but it is good to know it’s also good for the environment!

          2. Oh sorry if my response came off as b1tchy! Was just laughing about how I’m definitely already doing that, but it’s partially because I don’t have 1k or whatever to drop on a phone!

       2. +1 on you’re doing great!

          You’re probably already doing this, but use your voice: vote, call your representatives, tell companies you do business with you want greener options (if you use a gardening service, ask them to switch to an electric leaf blower or a rake).

          I do similar things as you. I also:
          -vacation more locally when possible so I can take a train or drive (electric) a short distance rather than fly
          -when I do eat meat, I more often eat chicken or fish instead of beef or lamb (less methane)
          -live in a small home

          Most of the green things I do have other benefits, like enjoyment, cost savings, health benefits, habit/routine, or convenience. I find it important to recognize those other benefits in order to sustain green choices.

          For example, I bike more consistently not just because it’s green, good for me, and can be fun, but also because I’ve become accustomed to always getting awesome parking and not getting stuck in traffic. Sometimes I’m grumpy and feel like driving, but bike because I don’t want to deal with traffic/parking.

   17. Soft plastic recycling. I also switched to using bar mops instead of paper towels, and I haven’t missed paper towels at all.

       1. stop eating meat

       2. I bought a pack of microfiber towels to clean with, and I do love using them instead of paper towels whenever I can! But I also don’t feel bad occasionally using paper towels on food messes, because they can be composted.

   18. #1 is to reduce your consumption in all things: electricity, stuff you buy, redecorating, water… Buy fewer better things that will last longer.

       There are a lot of books (that you can borrow from the library) that have tips on how to renovate, live, etc. more ‘greenly.’

       1. Also! A ceramic (or glass) nail file, is the best. I have one from tweezerman, they last forever! Not sure if any other company is still making them but a search does turn up glass versions, I’ve not tried those.

   19. Yeah this is great and I am not doing as much as you! Some ideas: avoid dairy by switching to a nutmilk, designate one day a week to being meat-free or vegan, avoiding plastic packaging in beauty products (this is hard), avoiding products containing palm oil

       1. Switching to a nutmilk may actually do more harm than good if that nutmilk is almond milk because of the massive amount of water needed to grow almonds. Oat milk seems to be a good substitute

   20. Join Sierra Club or 350 or any of your local groups with a track record of successful citizen pressure on corporations! The projects we are trying to block in WA are the equivalent of thousands of people going full vegan.

   21. I would add that if you do have to fly, look into carbon offsetting and do that if you can afford it. Look into whether your electricity provider has an option to switch to renewables. If you own, look into solar panels.
       It sounds like you are doing a lot of the things that an individual consumer can do. The next step is to get involved with sustainability on a city level or at your workplace.

       1. A caution: there is an enormous amount of fraud/unreliability in carbon offset programs (and I am someone who worked in the carbon offset business for several years). Cutting back on flying/driving should definitely be the first priority.

   22. Read Drawdown, edited by Paul Hawken. “Drawdown describes the 100 most substantive solutions to global warming.” Some are personal actions; some require governmental and other entities to act.

6. Styling question – does anyone wear their mm lafleur deneuve under a suit? Does that look weird? I’m so terrible at this!

   1. I have. Why would it look weird?

   2. I have too (under blazers) and I think it looks great. I think the Antonia or any shirt with a true asymmetrical neckline looks weird but the Deneuve is a drape, which I think looks stylish.

   3. I did today! It’s my favorite thing to wear under a pantsuit.

7. This is possibly a dumb question but bear with me. When someone says, “Rainmaker has a $X book of business” what does $X refer to? Is it billed or collected fees? Is it the amount of fees Rainmaker has ever billed, or is it per year, and if by year, calendar or fiscal or just the past 12 months? Or is it the amount of fees that Rainmaker’s clients can reliably be counted on to give her?

   I’m a litigator. My practice tends to involve a lot of one off matters and not a lot of repeat players. I’m wondering how litigators define their “book” size when it would seem that the number is constantly changing, possibly by quite a large margin.

   1. IME, it is normally the collected fees for the last calendar year. It will vary over time, but not necessarily by a large margin.

      1. That it also largely how I would interpret it (collected last fiscal year), FWIW.

   2. Thanks for asking this. I was also wondering if it only includes what they originated as that is typically the definition of “rainmaking.” We also have firm origination though that is people that come in off the street, in response to a referral from the bar, from a google search and don’t care what attorney they are assigned. If I was to leave my firm, I would expect those clients to come with me so I would consider them part of my book even though I didn’t originate them. Even people I originate have the option of staying with the firm if I leave under our ethics rules so some of it has to be an estimation. With that in mind, even cases originated by other attorneys but that would likely come with me would be part of my book but I don’t know if that is part of the official definition. The term is so difficult.

      1. Your book for comp purposes is different from your portable book. It can be more or less. Some firms split origination credit, so you may have a “book” for comp purposes that reflects percentages of things that wouldn’t go with you if you left. Or, you may have the opposite, where you aren’t getting credit at your firm, but it would go with you if you left. What your “book” is depends upon why you are asking. If you want to do what is considered a “book” for compensation and advancement purposes at your firm, it’s what is in your column per the firm metrics. If you want to know what another firm would consider to be your “book,” it’s what would come with you if you left. Both generally on a fees received per year basis.

8. Don’t have kids and don’t fly in planes. Hang dry your laundry. Volunteer with land conservation groups.

   1. Don’t have kids????

      1. Not that Anon, but if your goal is doing as much as possible to help the environment, not having kids is a very good suggestion. Of course, most people care about their individual happiness too and only want to help the environment within the confines of certain decisions they’ve made, like having kids.

         1. There was a discussion on this on (I thinkJ the Reasons To Be Cheerful podcast and the guest was saying that it’s maybe becoming more important to think about the number of kids you have – a couple having one or two kids is entirely different from four or five or more, given the backdrop.

            1. yeah, Prince Harry made a remark that he would have no more than 2 kids for environmental reasons. Personally I give him alllll the eyerolls for this (as it is a slight to Will and Kate, and something tells me he wouldn’t have more than 2 kids anyway so he’s just mouthing off trying to make himself look good) but obviously the more children you have, the more downstream consumers there are.

            2. I also give Prince Harry all the eyerolls for that statement, but it is more because he certainly uses more than his share of resources. Want to help the environment? Don’t have multiple huge homes that you are maintaining and buy all the stuff and travel all the time.

            3. Yeah the idea of royalty as sustainable in any macro sense is just laughable. OK, Harry!

            4. But given the royal lifestyle, the impact of producing any additional royals would be extremely big. So his not having more kids IS saving emissions, regardless of his other lifestyle choices.

            5. He didn’t choose to be born into a royal family, so I don’t see why the eyerolls for that. And his statement was not a knock on his brother / sister-in-law. God, I hate this trend where if someone says “X isn’t for me” it’s assumed to be directly insulting to others who choose X.

            6. LaurenB – But he does choose to live the royal lifestyle. If he truly wanted to make an environment difference, he could leave much of it behind and give up some of those many things, but he doesn’t. I strongly suspect that the average person doing the things mentioned on the earlier thread would use less resources having a third kid then he does with his lifestyle.

      2. Yeah not having kids is great for the environment

         1. Being alive is also not great for the environment. Have we considered composting ourselves!? (Eyeroll)

            1. I know you meant this in jest, but being buried in a coffin is terrible for the environment and there are movements to make being buried more green too. I have not done extensive research or thought about this in a while but I do recall reading about an effort to get people to bury themselves without a coffin to aid in decomposition.

            2. Actually, there’s a cemetery near my city that does exactly that – a totally minimal burial with only a shroud, no coffin or vault.

            3. Yes, actually. Do some research on green burial.

            4. I assume a full-on sky burial will be illegal wherever I die, so as an alternative I’d like to be donated to an anthropology department.

      3. Have kids if you really, honestly, truly want them, but don’t just pop them out because “that’s just what you do” at a certain stage of your life. Kids should be opt-in, not something people have to opt out of and only if they have an acceptable reason not to. And if you do have kids, consider keeping your family small.

   2. To follow on to my post, if you do have kids, buy absolutely everything used for them. That includes clothes, toys, strollers, cloth diapers and accessories, etc. Better yet, swap with other moms instead of buying. Frugalwoods has good tips on this.

      1. Cloth diapering is debatable and has been shown to have environmental impact equal to and potentially greater than disposable diapers.

         1. Yeah that’s fine, but if you do choose to use cloth, you should get them used.

         2. My 3 kids were all in disposables but potty trained before 2. I figure I call it even.

            FWIW And of all the (many) diaper wearing 3 year olds I know, not ONE is in cloth diapers.

         3. There are now also compostable (not sure if also sustainably sourced) diapers, but they are $$.

      2. We do this as much as possible. I feel so much better buying a plastic toy used. And it also saves so much $$$$. I’ve even converted a few skeptical friends as well.

9. Wow, I love every part of this suit! What a fun color.

   1. It is, but I can’t imagine wearing it. I’d feel too conspicuous.

10. I never do this but I ordered the Claire Leather Double Gusset Tote in black from the brand italic, which I’d only seen on insta ads and usually I’m very suspicious of insta fashion companies. But, I LOVE it. Quality leather, great hardware, dual compartments, cross body strap. This bag is just like a lot of designer leather bags I have but without logos and at this price point I’m happy to take it everywhere. Italic purports to be a “brandless luxury” where they go to the same manufacturers as designers (here they are clearly going for prada double zip tote that goes for $2500 or so) and they have logo free burberry scarf dupes, four seasons dupe sheets, and a limited number of other bags and things. Just wanted to share with you all in case anyone is looking for a pretty classic leather tote for $250. Can’t speak to any of the other stuff (yet).

    1. Thank you for sharing! I just ordered a crossbody bag from there a few days ago and am very curious to see what it’s like in person.

       1. Was it the Rene Crossbody? The raspberry colored one is so tempting but I think my next purchase will be one of the cashmere scarves or Albee zip card case. If I hadn’t splurged on a designer IRO nova studded leather moto jacket last year that Italic Niki moto jacket would be in my cart!

          1. Yes! I ordered the raspberry one. Should be coming in the next couple days and will report back. I also ordered the navy cashmere scarf for my husband.

             1. Please report back and page me in the comments, thank you thank you!

11. Cosmo has an article reporting that LEEP procedures can sever nerves and ruin sax forever. What?

    1. https://www.cosmopolitan.com/health-fitness/a28798959/leep-side-effects-risks-sexual-pleasure-loss/

    2. Wow! I had no idea about that risk. Hopefully with more HPV vaccinations, there will be less cervical cancer but so sick about women not being told about their options, the risks and no research on how to make the procedure better.

    3. Yup. Medical procedures have risks. So does dying of cancer. Super irresponsible

       1. Right, like they never talk to men about the side effects of treating prostate cancer. And there are alternatives to LEEP! And this probably only happens because of drs don’t know how deep to cut. So, no, it’s not a binary of cancer or accept undisclosed side effects.

    4. Do you have ANY idea how dismissive the medical community is of s3xual problems in women?

       My young OB GYN said she wants to help my issues… and the next appointment, when I mentioned it to a NP (older), the NP told me they won’t do anything until I am no longer pregnant. Okay, I guess we will just hope that my screwed up pelvic floor doesn’t cause problems during delivery and my marriage is good for seven months of no s3x.

       Sorry, ranting. It’s awful. You can just assume that if it affects a woman’s reproductive system, the older medical community DGAF unless it affects her ability to conceive.

       1. Preaching to the choir–but I didn’t know this about LEEP. Well, actually don’t know anything about LEEP. Pelvic floor therapy FTW!

    5. Wow…I think I’m experiencing this. I had a LEEP procedure a couple of years ago and since about then, gardening has been fairly painful for me. I’ve never made a connection until now. Just thinking about it makes me sick – that gynecologist was a horrible woman.

12. What do you tip for a $30 manicure? (never had one before)

    1. I tip 20% for most things, including salon services, so I’d do $6 on a $30 manicure.

       1. This.

       2. Makes sense. Thank you!

       3. I generally do 20% too but in this case would honestly just leave $40 if it’s being paid in cash. My thought process is that I’m really not going to miss the extra $4 (YMMV based on your financial situation of course), so why bother trying to get the change. If anything, I’m going to be slightly annoyed with having 4 $1 bills to deal with now as someone who doesn’t usually carry cash.

13. I know I want to make partner at the firm I am working at. With the annual review/self eval approaching, how do I signal?
    Background: I am a 4th going into 5th year. Running my own deals pretty frequently with minimum partner supervision. My firm is V50 in NYC. I have seen them make not a small number of 8-9th years partners so it can be done. I am also starting to go to client meetings with partners (often as the only associate or the most junior person). On those meetings, I don’t talk much as they usually speak about high-level stuff that I start to understand but don’t know enough about.
    As I start to fill out my own self evaluation for this year, I am wondering what I should be doing/signaling to partners to let them know I want that job (granted if they think I am not qualified then sure I get it but I want to try). To complicate things, we are TTC next year (family fertility issue so don’t want to wait). I already have a young kid and have shown I hope that I am a hard worker but still I want to fight the presumption that I want to step down with a baby (we should not have to but this is the reality we live in…)

    TIA!

    1. Business development is the best way to signal that you’re in it for the long haul. Put together a business plan and submit it with your self evaluation. Your firm might have a form business plan you can fill out. Think about how you will increase your profile in three key areas:
       1. Internal marketing. Be a “good citizen” of the firm. Get on a committee that means something, hiring committee, diversity committee, etc.
       2. External marketing within the bar. If your practice is national, market to other lawyers both inside and outside of your practice area. Join an ABA subcommittee, start working toward getting a leadership position.
       3. External marketing to the industry. Go to the events and join the networking groups that your clients belong to. Write articles and speak at conferences that are geared toward them. Join boards that will increase your presence in the community that your clients are involved in. Your kids are an asset here – potential clients have kids too! Where are they going, what are they doing with their families?

    2. If there’s a spot in the self-eval form to talk about your goals, talk about your desire to build your career at the firm long-term. And highlight any business development activities you are taking throughout your eval – case management is great, but ultimately you will need to show that you can build client relationships and develop a book of business. Separate and apart from that, you should sit down with your supervisors/practice group leaders and lay it out there. Make clear you are invested in the firm and want to stay there and make partner. Ask them what you need to be doing to make that a reality. In my experience, a lot of mid and even senior level associates sort of float along without having this conversation, and it hurts them when it comes time to make the partnership decisions. They assume doing great work will get them there, but it will not – you need to be proactive and get your name out there in the market and within your firm as someone with partnership potential who is willing to do the bus dev work to get there.

14. I have the Nine West version of this jacket in this color and it’s one of my favs. I’ve paired it with both navy and black sheath dresses as well as pants. Love this color for spring and summer and I’m thinking it will work in the fall when paired with browns.

15. Friends in NYC: thoughts on ClassPass? I’m not someone who “enjoys” working out, but I do like staying active. I’m in a slump right now and though I don’t necessarily like group classes, thought it might be fun to try. I have a monthly gym membership, so I was thinking the mid-level membership of 9 classes a month might be nice? 3 classes a month didn’t seem like enough.

    1. Not in NYC, but I like ClassPass for exactly those reasons – trying something new helps me to maintain enthusiasm. It is super easy to increase the number of classes, or to downgrade. I’d probably start at a mid/lower range and add more if you actually need them. You can also buy credits so if you have a particularly high-usage month, that’s a one off thing that doesn’t need to carry over.

       1. Agreed. I love Classpass, mostly because I can rotate between 4 great yoga studios and not have to worry about keeping track of credits at different places.
          But ask a friend for a referral – I’ve given two friends their free month.

       2. Same, I love ClassPass for fitness because I can do a great variety of things without having to spend a lot of money on different studio memberships or a-la carte classes. I have heard their customer service stinks though.

16. Considering a EdD. I already adjunct for universities and I am a public speaker in a very specialized area (which I also write about professionally). (A PhD is research based and I am not looking to become a researcher, so that does not seem like the right fit.) I am finding that many adjunct and faculty positions require a doctorate to apply to teach even in adjunct roles, which is work I want to keep doing, so I want to be qualified to apply for as many of these as possible. I am also wondering whether “Dr.” before my name would give me more clout and pay me more for my speaking and writing work. However, the programs I am finding do not offer funding. As such, I would need to take on $30-40k in federal student loan debt. Since nothing is guaranteed, I am struggling with whether the financial risk is worth it. (I am good at school so the work and time isn’t a worry for me.)

    On one hand, I already have so much in student loan debt that I’ll likely never pay it off anyway so what’s adding more when it might bring in better income, especially since income based repayment won’t likely change my monthly payments unless I earn more? On the other hand, it’s not guaranteed to financially pay off so maybe it’s not worth the risk.

    Advice or guidance please!

    1. Don’t do it. You can’t afford it.

    2. Do not do this under any circumstances to get more adjudicating gigs. They pay terribly. If you have solid evidence–e.g., ask the faculty where you teach to be brutally honest—you are very likely to get a tenured full-time position if you get this you could consider it. I say this as someone who has an MFA (terminal degree in art, worthless) and is married to a PhD in Civil Engineering who taught full-time at a public university for 10 years and now makes about the same as a public high school teacher (granted we are in NYC, with a strong teacher’s union).

    3. I have an Ed.D., and I would caution many people to obtain this degree unless you are really certain it’s necessary. Typically there is no funding available for many programs, but most (not all) allow you to continue to work full time while attending. I worked for a large university that has a top 5 education school, so I used my tuition benefit and got my Ed.D. while working there. I cannot imagine the Ed.D. will do much for your public speaking career. It’s very similar to an MBA in that it’s totally dependent on what school you go to – an Ed.D. from an online school is looked at much differently than one from say, Penn or Vanderbilt. All in all, I went because I have a career goal of being a university administrator, and it seemed that the Ed.D. was basically required (or some other terminal degree). On the K-12 side, I think it’s required if you want to be a superintendent. Other than that… it’s a fluff degree, and many people know it.

    4. I realize I don’t know any of your circumstances, but this Internet stranger says: Don’t invest any more in trying to get a job in academia. The system is rigged against you. Look at your skills and interests and focus on what jobs are available outside academia. I work with many many people with advanced degrees who regret the money they spent on getting those letters after their name. There will be many opportunities for learning (and teaching), if that’s the real goal, outside a degree program. I have so many feelings about this so I am sorry if I sound strident, but I am deeply angry at how universities treat adjuncts.

       1. Yep, this. I have a PhD and I could be more stable and making more without it. I’m glad I did it but I’m also glad I didn’t go into debt for it.

       2. This is coming from someone who works in higher ed … don’t do this. You are unlikely to see a financial payoff from this. There are so many “maybes” and best-case scenarios in your question; I truly don’t think another degree is going to be the difference between booking speaking gigs or not.

       3. Yeah, also in higher ed, also telling you not to do this. An EdD won’t help you with a teaching career, unless you’re teaching in an education program (which it sounds like you are not). You would need a PhD to get a boost on the academic hiring side, but I can’t imagine it’s worth the investment of time if you don’t want to teach or research.

          And trying to build a career around adjuncting is a risky, precarious proposition.

    5. The Ed.D won’t help you get a faculty position – the requirement for doctoral degrees for faculty is a research degree in the relevant field, so unless you are teaching higher ed administration the Ed.D. is not considered a relevant qualification in the same way a PhD in Comp Lit would be for teaching English, or one in chemistry to teach in a chem program. If you want to teach at the community college level, though, a master’s in the relevant field is what’s required, and your teaching experience will help you there.

    6. Not a teacher but from a family of teachers and academics. The only utility I’ve seen from an Ed.D is to specifically move past firm job requirements to get to the next level of your career, typically in higher admin of large public school districts or university. It doesn’t necessarily matter where you went to schools just that you have a Dr. before your name. I have not ever seen it worth it to be an adjunct. But it is definitely worth it if you’re say going from master teacher to principal with eye on superintendent, or moving up in university admin – the degree then translates to real dollars.
       If you MUST, please do this program online from a reputable but cheap school while you continue working. There are so many accredited university programs doing doctorate programs online or only partially in person (think online and one weekend a month) that are a fraction of the cost of full time programs.

    7. Echoing everyone else – probably not a good plan. You don’t say what your specialty is, which might matter (and I understand you probably want to stay anonymous). But an Ed.D. is essentially an administrative-path degree, unless you are in a college of education. It does not qualify you for teaching positions in any other subject.

       Also, adjuncting is not a career path. It might be a nice side gig, but it’s not something worth taking on student debt for.

    8. I have an M.Ed. and I echo the above – don’t do this. Many of my classmates have left education entirely and others are looking for a way out. Ed.D is not worth the money/time.

    9. I am currently finishing up an EdD at a top-five program. I work as a higher ed administrator and also teach as an adjunct on the side. I anticipate that the degree will be helpful in my career in higher ed admin, but will not be a path to moving into a full-time teaching role (not what I want to do). The specific program (school and focus) I am doing is the one that many of the administrators high up in my state’s system and it’s flagship universities have done. I don’t know that I would do it in your shoes.

    10. An Ed.D. won’t help you when the university wants a research-based doctorate.

        “On one hand, I already have so much in student loan debt that I’ll likely never pay it off anyway so what’s adding more when it might bring in better income, especially since income based repayment won’t likely change my monthly payments unless I earn more?”

        They will certainly add time to your loans. The new loan would still take twenty years to pay off on IBR, right? That twenty years starts when you graduate, not when you started paying your previous loans. I also wouldn’t assume that the programs will be around in 20 years the way they are now – if they change the rules, you want to have your loans paid off (or discharged) before then.

17. What should I make for dinner tomorrow night? 2 friends (a couple) are coming over to have dinner with me and my SO, so it will be 4 of us. Last time they came over, I made tacos, so I’m looking for another idea – maybe something a little more elevated, but not too fancy? No pork, but pretty much anything else is fine. It’s getting a little cooler here (FINALLY), so I’m thinking something autumn-y might be nice, but other than that I really have no inspiration…

    1. Smitten Kitchen baked ziti is one of my go-to dishes for entertaining. I like being able to put it in the oven and clean up before the guests arrive so I can just enjoy hanging out instead of being stuck in the kitchen.

    2. Simple roasted chicken, roasted brussel sprouts/veggies and a baked potato or rice dish, glass of wine?

       1. Four people might prefer to share a bottle of wine rather than one glass of wine ;)

    3. Charcutiere board with a nice vegetable soup and breads?

    4. I’ve been wanting to make fancy pizzas on the grill with our friends. Each person can create their own pie, and everyone can share. Not sure if that’s more elevated than tacos but it’s on my to-do for this fall before we put the grill away!

    5. Saw your comment, but just in case – a friend just make pork with a grape-wine kind of sauce to die for. Might work with chicken? Epicurious recipe – slow-braised pork with black grapes and balsamic.

    6. Ina Garten’s mushroom lasagna with a big salad, good bread and maybe grilled chicken for protein. I put other summer vegetables in it as well – mainly zucchini and eggplant. It’s delicious and easy.

    7. Not autumn-y, but the Serious Eats shrimp scampi is one of my faves and doesn’t take super long to make.

18. Looking for recommendations for recruiters in the Minneapolis area for in house positions. Thanks in advance!

19. I’m in the process of interviewing for 2 internal positions.

    I had a first round for job A yesterday. Job A is my top choice as I believe it’ll open several doors in the future. The program area touches on so much, so I feel like it’s a good starting point (Im only 2 years into my career).

    Today I have the second round for job B. Job B is extremely niche and so I’m worried about it limiting what I can do next. I’m also worried about having too much down time in the job, idk if it can sustain 40 hours a week (this is a new position so can’t go off what the previous person did, etc). I think I have a very high chance of getting this job.

    Job B is trying to be filled ASAP. I’m worried that they might make an offer before Job A even has a second round of interviews. Any advice on how to proceed should that happen?

    1. It sounds like you really like A more than B.

       Can you reach out to anyone working in niche of job B to find out about career paths within the niche, what people who leave the niche do after, and about workloads?
       Regarding the work hours, where are you in life (age, family?) -and where do you want to be in 5 years?

       1. Thanks!

          I work in a pretty niche field already so honestly I don’t know anyone who does B full time. My agency is “bigger” at 30 people but most other localities have a few people so they’re all generalists. I’d probably eventually try to go federal but not in field B.

          I’m mid 20s, single, living in the city I want to settle down in. Within 5 years I’d like to have a masters (which I plan on doing part time while working), and be coupled but certainly no kids.

          Both jobs have similar workloads (absolutely no expection to work more than 40hrs a week unless stuff hits the fan, but an expectation to be absolutely GRINDING for those 40 hrs). Pay is same, title is the same, I like both teams but it’s a small agency so you all work together anyways, etc

    2. In my experience, new positions allow you a lot of flexibility to do what you want if they do not already have 40 hours of work that must get done. I could be off base, but it sounds like Job A needs someone who can do everything that they have in extremely niche and you are not sure that will fill 40 hours a week. If it does not, I strongly suspect that you will be able to do additional work in other areas to fill that remaining time. That doesn’t help if extremely niche does fill 40 hours, but might be something to ask about.

       But, at the end of the day, I think it just comes down to how much you need a new job. You can try to slow walk Job B (take a day to return calls, try to get a later date if they schedule a third interview) and, if you get an offer, ask for two weeks to respond and reach out to Job A to see if they can make a decision in that time. But it is likely going to come down to a situation where you have to decide on Job B without knowing if Job A is an option – would you rather stay at your current job or move to job B?

       1. My current job includes frequent nights and weekends and pays 12k less than job A and B so if I get an offer, I’ll absolutely take it.

          It’s all internal so taking time to return phone calls, etc isn’t really an option.

          I am on leave next week which could buy a little time but not too much, as they all know I’ll still have my work phone with me.

20. Just gave a presentation about a year-long project to our executive leadership team, and rocked it.

    Is it too early in the day for a celebratory drink?

    1. Not at all! Congrats on rocking it.

    2. Good for you. It’s 5 o’clock somewhere!

21. My older daughter is old enough for HPV shots this year and I plan to get her started. I’ve had a couple of iffy paps and two colposcopies and it is not fun.

    Do you know how prevalent this is among the 11-14ish crowd?

    My stepson is 10 years older and I was so shocked that his parents didn’t get the shots for him even though it has been recommended for boys for a while now. I get though how it may have slipped as being an issue for young boys, but it seemed that maybe there was some resistance to it.

    [And I am a fairly conservative person, but I believe that young girls can make all sorts of mistakes that come with devastatingly long tails, let alone all that they may do under duress or pressure or force; I also have a friend who had cervical cancer in her 20s and was not able to have children (cervix and perhaps other parts were removed). IDK why you would not get your kids this shot (among the non-anti-vaxxer crowd)]

    1. I have a very pro-vax circle of friends, but every mom I knows plans to give her children, boys and girls, the shot as soon as they are age-eligible. To me, it’s quite different than starting your daughter on birth control pills. I don’t know that starting birth control “encourages” s3x, especially if you started it for a health issue like acne or endometriosis, but that argument makes more sense to me. But an HPV vaccine is not “encouraging” s3x anymore than a Hep A vaccine is encouraging you to drink sewage. In our family, we vaccinate on the recommended schedule against all preventable diseases, I don’t even think you have to have any discussions about s3x with your kids. It’s just “this is a vaccine for a preventable disease, we’re going to get you the vaccine on schedule.”

       1. “But an HPV vaccine is not “encouraging” s3x anymore than a Hep A vaccine is encouraging you to drink sewage.”

          This is a hilarious way to make an excellent point.

       2. Yeah the argument that the shot encourages s*x makes no sense to me. I don’t think any teenager is making the decision on whether to become s*xually active or not based on a fear of HPV. I don’t think most even know what HPV is

    2. Vaccines are not conservative or liberal, they are medical. It’s a fact that the vaccine prevents HPV infection, and it’s a fact that HPV infection raises one’s risk for cervical cancer and other goodies like head and neck cancers (tongue, throat, etc).

       Anti-vaxxers do not understand science (pro tip: if someone says “Do your research!!” they have no clue). Googling anti-vax sites is not research.

       This is a hot button issue for me. I’ve forgotten more immunology than most people will ever know, so when people witter on about the “immune system” and weird vaccine stuff I’m just like, stop. You have no clue.

       1. This. It’s going to help prevent her from getting cancer. Get it now, or whenever your ped suggests.

    3. I would not worry about peer pressure and would go ahead and get your daughter the shot. It is most effective to get before she becomes sexually active. Also, HPV is so common that even if your daughter makes all the right choices and only has s*x with a few partners, there is no promise that those men (and her future husband) won’t have HPV themselves.

       I got the shot when I was starting college about 12 years ago (it had just come out). At the time, most of my friends’ parents were doctors, so literally everyone at my high school was getting it. Then, I got to college and mentioned that I was getting the vaccine– I got the weirdest reactions, and people (at my fairly conservative college) assumed that this was basically STD prevention and that I must be a sl*t if I was getting the vaccine. This is why a lot of people did not get the shot initially– the stigma.

    4. Both of my tweens got it at their 11-year appointment. Our pediatrician highly recommended it. I don’t know many people who have chosen not to get it, but that could be more my choice in people I know.

    5. Everyone I know does it. Has nothing to do with being conservative or young girls making mistakes. It’s about preventing cancer and any parent who doesn’t leap at that opportunity is a bad one.

    6. I was in high school when the vax came out and there were absolutely some parents who thought it was controversial (including my own, most people’s parents are/were religious and conservative-ish) but literally EVERYONE I knew got it.

       I have very Catholic friends from very Catholic families who are waiting for marriage who got it, with encouragement from their mothers. Among myself and my friends who aren’t waiting for marriage, not a single one of us has ever thought “well I have the HPV vaccine, I might as well go be more promiscuous”, it’s not encouraging sexual activity at all.

       Safe to say we’ve all been ravaged by cancer in some way (relative, friend, ourselves, etc). It’s a vaccine that prevents cancer. It’s one of the few cancers we can do this for. Why wouldn’t you get it?

       1. EFF CANCER and anyone who would deny a child access to a vaccine that would prevent it (and anyone who remotely suggests a vaccine could be anything but medical (ie, political)).

          Signed, I miss my grandpa, aunt, uncle, other uncle and father in law a whole lot.

          1. I posted about it here at the time, but I heard a mother tell a nurse she didn’t want that vaccine for her teenager (it was free) because “it goes against [their] family’s values.” Uhh your family value is getting cancer? What a great value!

             1. Maybe the family’s value is that before someone becomes sexually active, they make these arrangements themselves or with the help of a parent.

             2. But 99.99% of people eventually become sexually active, and who knows if they’ll have access to the vaccine at that time. The majority of teens and college students are not very comfortable talking to their parents about sex, and it seems really harsh to subject your child (and their future sexual partners) to a preventable disease that causes cancer because you want your child to come to you before they become sexually active. Also, becoming sexually active isn’t a choice for everybody – a non-trivial number of people, especially women, get raped, and I think it’s pretty terrible to put your daughter at risk of getting cancer if she gets sexually assaulted because you think a vaccine contradicts your values.

             3. If a child is mature enough for intercourse, they are mature enough to figure out the logistics before jumping into the sack. Full stop.

             4. Anon @1:20

                I waited a while to become sexually active. I was older (20) and well informed on several different factors. I’m so glad that I was already vaccinated. When you’re ready to become sexually active (provided that it’s your choice; I know far too many people who were raped before they had consensual sex), you don’t really want to wait to go get a shot.

                Also, as I said I was older, I’d been with this guy for a while, I was pretty mature, he was so focused on making sure taking this to the next level was okay for me, I was focused on making good decisions and I STILL made a lot of dumb decisions around sex, mostly because I was done waiting and once I decided I was ready, I was ready. I didn’t want to have to wait to get a shot, get on the pill, etc.

                Most importantly, this vaccine is about cancer, not about sex. Frame it that way. Whatever we can do to minimize someone’s chance of getting cancer, the better.

                Second most importantly, someone can do all the “right” things, make all the “right” decisions and still end up in a really bad situation. Waiting til marriage only applies to consensual situations. Waiting til marriage only ensures that you don’t have HPV, your spouse could have been previously exposed.

             5. Again, rape. It’s a thing. And obviously I want my children to be mature before they decide to have sex, but even if they make a stupid decision and have sex before they’re ready, the punishment is…getting cancer? It seems like a case of the punishment not fitting the “crime.”

          2. Yup. Having been devastated by loved ones’ cancers and having had cancer scares at a young age, how someone could not do everything in their power to prevent their child from getting cancer is mind boggling.

             I lost the best person I ever knew to cancer and I will never, ever get over it.

    7. It’s not a s3x vaccine, it’s a cancer vaccine. And even if a young woman does everything “right” in OP’s book and avoids being pressured into premarital s3x, how does she know her future husband has done the same?

       From a practical standpoint, getting the vaccine earlier means fewer doses. If you start the series at age 15 or later, the CDC recommends three doses. Younger kids only need two.

    8. I think the knowledge about the HPV shot was very different 10 years ago then it is now, especially for boys. But you say it is your stepson, so why don’t you just ask your husband why they didn’t get it for him?

       1. Also, tell your stepson he has the option to get it now.

       2. Tbh, when I got it in high school I don’t even think they had it for boys yet. I’m mid 20s so probably similar age to your stepson

    9. All of my children have been vaccinated against HPV. I cannot imagine not.

    10. I just had my first HPV shot and that thing hurts like a mofo

        1. Yes, it does. But I am pretty certain it is not as painful as cancer, so I’m going back for round 3 in December.

        2. Yeah, my kids got that, a meningitis vaccine, and a TDAP (or DTAP?) booster last year. They were NOT fans of the HPV shot.

    11. I just got one for myself, and the doctor mentioned to me that it’s most effective in kids under 15, so I’d definitely encourage you to go for it sooner rather than later.

22. Can we discuss Botox? I honestly never considered it – it has such a negative connotation with celebrities who go way too far. I have an opportunity to get it for free, and I’m intrigued to “prevent wrinkles” but haven’t heard much about it from women irl. Have you had it before, do you wish you started earlier? Or do you wish you never did it? Thanks!

    1. I started getting Botox in my crow’s feet at age 35. I am now pushing 50 and I am SO glad I started early. I also get it in my forehead, but only about twice a year. Well worth the investment.

    2. I do, and have for a few years now. Primarily I get it for migraines, but I’m about at 70% migraine prevention, 30% cosmetic (ie – I have more areas done just for ‘me’ vs. what I need for the migraines). I do notice a BIG difference in lines (obviously, that’s what it does) and really hated the deeply etched forehead lines I had previously. I don’t do ‘full face’ Botox, as many celebs do, so still have (and plan to keep) my crinkly eye lines, and my ‘parentheses’ around my mouth. This seems to be enough movement that nobody has noticed/called out Botox and the people I mention it to are surprised I have it done because I do have an expressive face.
       FWIW, I’d try it, see how you like it and go from there. It wears off in 3-4 months and if you hate it just don’t do it again.

    3. I’m 36, have been getting it done for about a year now, and love it. I go to a dermatologist who goes for a natural look, and people are surprised to hear that I get it done because my face is still very expressive. I get a little bit between my eyes and a little at the corner of my eyes. I get less than the “usual” amount at the corner of my eyes because I found I couldn’t crinkle my eyes the way I wanted to when I had the “full-strength” amount.” My derm also puts some botox into my jaw area and it surprisingly tightens up my jaw.

23. Any recs for where to sell clothing? (Looking to sell a gently used JCrew wool coat black size 0)

    1. Poshmark, FB Marketplace, or the local buy-sell FB group for your neighborhood

    2. I’ve used eBay or Mercari with success. I have found them to be easier to use than Poshmark, but I usually am in the minority there. I hate the social aspect of Poshmark where they are always asking you to join “parties” and share your closet.

    3. I’ve had good success on Poshmark.

    4. Which coat and how much are you asking? I might be interested.

       1. Italian double-cloth wool lady day coat with Thinsulate® I’m asking 270, very gently used. Link: https://www.jcrew.com/p/womens_category/coats_and_jackets/woolandwoolblend/italian-doublecloth-wool-lady-day-coat-with-thinsulate/49622?color_name=black

          1. Not what you’re asking, I know, but you can get that coat for ~$280 on Black Friday and other major sale days when J. Crew does 30% off, so I really doubt you’re going to be able to move a used one for $270.

             1. +1. I personally only buy used if it’s 50% of full price or less. The very good consignment store I go to starts at 50% off retail and marks down from there.

             2. Agreed. I had this same coat and sold it on eBay (I lost weight and it no longer looked good in that size on me) for less than $100. I see now on eBay that recently sold ones have gone for $70-100, depending on size, and many haven’t sold even in that price range.

             3. Thanks for the feedback, will mark it down further

24. I am having trouble finding stylish, more trendy jeans (beyond basic super skinny) with a) no stretch and b) an inseam of 33″. Any suggestions of wear to shop? (Banana Republic and family brands seem to always have too much stretch). I’m not sure what is an updated silhouette; so many “upscale” denim brands have one inseam so I don’t even bother looking.

    1. I love Ariat jeans because they have very little stretch. They usually come in 2 or 3 inseams. You can get them on Amazon with free returns, I would just order both the reg and the tall size and return the one that doesn’t fit. My fav is their straight leg and the trouser fit. Don’t know if it’s trendy but I get compliments on the trouser ones frequently. Straight legs are more basic.

       1. Citizens Rocket jeans don’t have much stretch. I also have some Mother ones that might work for you.

    2. I have a 34″ inch inseam. Have been very impressed with Old Navy Rockstar super skinny jeans lately. They’re not that skinny, but they don’t overstretch. And they’re cheap.

    3. I really like the look of Madewell denim. You can filter by type of stretch (starting with “rigid” all the way to “super stretch”). They have tall sizes but don’t include what the actual inseam is.

    4. Thanks for the recs! These are new brands to me except Madewell, and I didn’t know they had tall sizes so that’s awesome! Thanks.

    5. Everlane has jeans that are 98% cotton and basically feel like no stretch. I love them.

25. Can’t ask this IRL but I feel like money discussion among women can be helpful in some way — how common is it (if at all) to leave biglaw after 7-10 years (associate only – not as partner/counsel) with a million dollar net worth (not including property, all liquid NW even though obviously some will be in retirement and not useable at that stage) ? Or alternatively how common is it to leave in that timeframe near $1 million but not quite there, and then get there a few years into 150k-250k type of in house or government job?

    I feel like it should be common even if you started with six figure debt given the starting salaries now and even a few years ago when the start was “only” 160k. Yet I don’t feel like biglaw seniors or people a few years out of biglaw have the same vibe that you see in finance — where it’s like — yeah I’m working because I’m 38 and need something to do, but I don’t HAVE to make even a 150k at this point because I’m “set.” I’ve never asked but I don’t think those people literally mean they’re set as in never working a day in their life, but more mean they’re set in terms of investments that’ll continue to grow so there isn’t that same push to make $$$ anymore and they just want to enjoy their lives. Not comparing finance to law but just curious as to whether this is just a harder marker to reach in law (for one person — not talking about 2 associate/lawyer couples). What am I missing?

    1. I think it’s really challenging to save a million in that time frame, even on a Big Law salary. If you stay for 7 years, you’re probably only looking at earning around $1.5M pre-tax, which would barely be $1M post-tax. Nobody saves 100% of the post-tax salary, especially when you likely live in a very HCOL. I had $200k saved when I left Big Law after a little over 4 years and I was far more frugal than most of my peers, and didn’t have massive student loans (I paid of $30k in my first year) or children (a nanny or daycare+backup care for two kids can easily be $75k/year).

    2. No idea how common, but I can tell you that I recently hit $1M net worth after 9 years in biglaw in NYC. About half of that is in retirement accounts (401k through firm and post-tax investment account I started). Graduated with negative NW with student loan debt of about $175k. I don’t discuss NW with friends but we do talk about student loans. My biglaw friends generally take 5-6 years to pay off their loans. Fewer if they are coupled up with two incomes, more if they bought an apt or house and/or have kids and childcare costs. I do not intend to stop working, but I do feel “set” in the sense that I am looking to scale back to a lower paying job about which I feel more passionate.

       1. Good for you! I don’t have a sense it’s that common even among senior associates, simply because when that rare associate at my firm does leave to travel for a bit, for a huge pay cut for a non profit they care about etc. — everyone else makes a HUGE deal of — how are they doing this, how is that even possible, as if they themselves are living to the last dimes of their own salaries. Though maybe they are? And then the justifications start re rich husbands or trust funds from parents or no school debt. Though the 3 people who’ve done these things were single and had none of those things — I think they just planned/saved/invested and then at some point felt — ok I have enough to where I can “float” and my nest egg will still grow even if I don’t add much to it.

    3. I think you are (1) underestimating how much finance people make and ignoring the fact that a 38 year old in finance would have been working for 16 years, not 7-10, (2) underestimating how much it costs to live in HCOL cities that pay biglaw salaries, and (3) underestimating the $200k+ in debt that most attorneys have after law school.

       I left biglaw at the start of my 8th year with about $500k in net worth. I was single the whole time I was in big law, paid off over $400k in student loan debt, and purchased a home (the net worth includes the downpayment and what I had paid off, but not the increase in value of the home). And that is pretty impressive based on others I know, and significantly more than anyone else I know managed who was single. I moved cities after law school, but still lived pretty frugally. I rented a one-bedroom, but it was in an unhip neighborhood that was under $2000/month. I often ate out lunch because I didn’t have any free time to cook, but would eat dinner at the firm (paid for by work) or at home most of the time (microwave meals). I didn’t go to fancy restaurants or events, didn’t buy that much clothing or expensive stuff. In fact, I spend more on restaurants and activities now that I’m in government than I did in biglaw. But I did spend more money on time-savings things when in biglaw; I had a cleaning service once a month, took ubers , would buy prepared foods at the grocery store. Unless you are willing to continue living like a student (or live in one of the few cheaper markets that pay biglaw rates) when working 60+ hours a week, the numbers just don’t add up to saving $1M in 7-10 years.

       1. Student loans are a huge one. It not just the 200k+ in loans, but the interest on the loans. It took me over 4 years to pay off my loans, and during the vast majority of that I was paying over 1,000 a month in interest.

          1. Right. I think if you have $200k in debt when you graduate, you will probably pay north of $400k when you include all the interest. It’s a HUGE factor.

    4. You are comparing oranges and apples
       1) Lots of people in finance go in right after college, they have 3-4 yrs of earning power on top of any lawyer
       2) Their base starts similar but their salary increase and bonuses are astronomically higher
       3) You work in finance you have an upper hand on information with respect to the best way to maximize your earnings
       4) Law school is expensive – don’t compare someone with no grad school loans to someone with $200k, you fundamentally start out in a different position.
       You know how a big law lawyer comes out with a net worth of close to 1M after 8 to 10 yrs in big law? Living on half or less of their salary, starting off with a net worth above zero (many of us start negative), and starting investing younger.

       1. Also, she is comparing a 38 year old in finance to someone with 7-10 years experience in law who would likely be in their early 30s. A 38 year old in biglaw who went straight through would likely have been practicing for 14 years and be a partner – that hypothetical person could have a $1m net worth

    5. Maybe pre-2008, that was an achievable goal, but firms aren’t giving the bonuses and raises that they used to. Sure, if you’re making $300k+ base and getting $100k bonuses, it’s easy to pay off the loans quickly and sock away a lot of cash. But that’s not the reality for most people.

       1. I assure you this is false. I graduated in 2005. Biglaw starting salaries definitely were not 180 or 190k which they are now — they were 125k. We were on the 125k scale for 2+ yrs and then in 2007 the scale moved up to 140k and then 160k. Then it sat there for a long time and the move to 180k-190k just happened in the last 2 years. So yeah the salary increases have far outpaced inflation. BUT while there is an opportunity to make more $$$ as an associate because of higher salaries, I think the associate tenure has gotten MUCH shorter. So if you started in 2005 (and didn’t get laid off in 2008), you had a pretty solid shot of having at least a 7-9 year associate tenure if you worked LONG hours and proved yourself to be useful — even if not partner material; I mean “only” 50% of my class got laid off as 4th years when the recession. Now from what I hear (not in biglaw anymore), 50% of people are NOT making it past the 4th year — they are getting “bad” reviews and getting pushed out earlier and earlier and maybe only 20% get into the bigger money 6th-8th years. Firms are basically using the same number of comp dollars but just paying them out quicker and then pushing people out faster. It was a better deal to make it to your 6th year back in the day — sure you’d make 10k-20k/yr less in those years than you do now, but it’s better to make 220k than to make 0 because you’ve been pushed out.

       2. I think timing is a bigger part of this than people realize.

          My neighbors are a lawyer/lawyer couple. He has always worked in finance as a not-a-lawyer. She basically worked in BigLaw for 5-6 years immediately prior to the recession,had loans lower than what they were even 5 years later, bought a condo in that time in a city that had property values explode, and sold it at the peak of the market. She’s a few years older than I am and it’s made a HUGE difference.

          I don’t know what their net worth is, but she’s been (happily) a mostly stay at home parent for the past 12 years and I know they bought their (lovely) house with cash and are able to send their kids to private school and not worry too much about finances in general. She has attributed a bunch of it to the fact that she didn’t have a life and was making insane bonuses for the first few years of her career which she put into secure investment vehicles. They were then able to buy subsequent houses with cash and not have to think about that huge piece of the budget.

          1. They also might have family money. Several of my close friends do, and aren’t super open about it with people they don’t know that well, so I think it’s a big assumption to assume their lifestyle is entirely due to her Big Law earnings/investing.

    6. Saving a million? Probably not — even if you are super frugal and have minimal (under 6 figure debt) UNLESS you are one of those folks who is with an NYC firm that pays NYC salaries in say Dallas or Richmond. But assuming you mean being with an NYC/DC/SF/LA firm IN those cities, I think saving $1million is hard, BUT I DO think it’s possible to get to $1mil or at least 1/2 a million in 7-9 years by investing.

       Unlike my finance friends though, most lawyers don’t do this until they feel WELL settled — often meaning, debt is paid off, a home/apt is purchased. In contrast finance people are much more likely to say — the market is returning 18%, my debt is at 6%, and home prices are appreciating at 3%, I’m not putting every extra $ to my debt or down payment fund because I’ll be missing out on bigger market returns. I mean most of the people I was close with in biglaw (close enough to talk $$) literally would take a net bonus amount of say 40k and put EVERY SINGLE dollar into their debt. Either they knew they didn’t want to stay/wouldn’t be able to stay in biglaw so they wanted their $700-1000/mo payment obligation gone before they got into a 150k or 250k job, OR they just mentally needed that debt gone ASAP. Thing is — at my v25 most people don’t make partner even if they are super committed, so then you have people leaving in 6 years for 150k jobs with barely any nest egg — when they could’ve had a 500k or 800k or whatever nest egg had they just calmed down about their loans.

    7. FWIW I worked in BigLaw before the 2009 recession. $160K start, multiple 5-figure bonuses ($25-$75k), no school debt. My net worth before the recession was around $600k, with about $350k in post-tax accounts.

    8. My net worth is about $2 million, now 10 years out of law school. I graduated in 2009 with $150k law school debt. I actually turned down a V50 firm offer for a so-called elite boutique that paid NYC market in a city that wasn’t NYC. Then right before I started they cut salaries for everybody by 1/3 – this was to minimize layoffs.

       I had no bonuses for 4 years. I was and remain single. I lived in studio apartments that were nice enough but not a place I could entertain or anything. I had no car, walked everywhere, took the bus, bought clothes at nice consignment, bought furniture off Clist, but I did spend money on food and drink out since I kinda hated my apartments. I did not take vacations.

       When my salary was trued up at a new firm in 2012, I kept my living situation static and started investing and paying off debt like crazy. I am still frugal. I finally did buy a car last year but it is 20 years old.

       Now I live in a cute 1 bedroom house that I bought for cash last year and I have investments worth triple my home, total around $2M. Despite all this I do not think that I can retire early bc I am single (no second income, need health insurance) and my parents are in decent health but they have nothing and I expect them to need my heavy support in the future. They are one reason I have saved so much.

       It can be done but it will not be fun. I am not sure that I would recommend my way to anybody. I am so tired of work and saving.

       1. Wow. Super impressed.

          I’m a 2011 grad, paid off $180k and co-bought a NYC coop and have about $250k in cash (CDs, high interest savings and cash) and $200k in retirement accounts. I need to invest some of the cash but most of it’s from this year; so nowhere near $1m. I’ve also lived somewhat moderately (prioritizing travel and seeing loved ones over saving, but not necessarily blowing every penny I earn). Also paid for half a $100k reno and a wedding in the meantime or the savings would have been higher. Wasn’t always in biglaw so I didn’t have biglaw bonuses for 3 years.

26. I am a third year associate with a secretary issues. My secretary has been at the firm for 40+ years and from day one has been difficult and irritated with me. I tried to become friends with her but abandoned that plan because every conversation with her inevitably turns into gossip about coworkers, and she says mean things about my partners loudly from her open-plan desk. My plan for the last two years has been to be nice to her but minimize interactions. I give her gifts for all celebrations (holidays, administrative professionals day, birthday) and say hello but try to minimize my reliance on her.

    I’ve started traveling more, and booking trips occasionally goes through my secretary. We’ve had a lot of conflict recently with her imposing arbitrary restrictions on me (telling me I have to have my travel plans to her by a certain deadline, that she doesn’t think I need a rental car and therefore will not book one, and that I have to pay for half of the hotel days on my own). Each time I have learned that these are her opinions and are NOT firm policy. In the past week she has also told me that I need to start entering my time daily instead of weekly (firm policy) so she can submit expenses more easily. She has also previously refused to assist in entering my time because it is “not a good use of her time.” This is becoming incredibly inefficient. I must’ve spent an additional 5 hours last week undo-ing or responding to her arbitrary deadlines for me. I also find it to be inappropriate and am confident she does not treat her other attorneys this way.

    I have requested a different secretary because it seems like we have moved beyond dislike to my secretary not wanting to do my work (and now she seems to be wasting my time). I was told that I first have to confront my secretary and explain my issues. Does anyone have tips on how to approach this? I have, and still am, nice to her but have become increasingly firm. I think that being firm may have led to the recent arbitrary deadlines and restrictions for me.

    1. Lay down the law. I work at a firm where we are expected to handle these issues on our own as well. I found it very odd at first (and still kinda do) but I think its some sort of weird idea the firm has that learning to manage staff is part of your development as a professional.

       I would say (and have said) “This is the way I want it, do not ask me again.” She doesn’t get to refuse to do things for you.

       1. +1

    2. Write a letter. I would honestly avoid having this conversation in person if at all possible, and certainly not one on one. You want a witness.

       1. Don’t write a letter. That is super weird in a work context – this isn’t confronting a friend about being a bridezilla.

          I think you need to set up a meeting with her, and do agree on having a witness. Is there a secretarial manager or HR representative that you can have in the room? You don’t need to approach this with anger, but just from a performance review position and conversation. “These are the things you have been doing and these are the things that I expect from you. Let’s talk about these expectations and discuss how to make them work with your current workload and my needs from you.” But it does need to be formal and with a third party present so she is taken seriously and it is documented.
          Follow up the meeting with written detailed conclusion of how you guys will proceed and cc the person present. Also, stop being “nice”. All you need to be is professional. She clearly doesn’t like you so and it’s not going to change.

       2. Write an email with the above tone (which is well put) of putting down the expectations in writing so that you are both on the same page. In the email, say that you will set up time for a meeting where she can raise any questions she has. In the meeting, it’s good to have an HR person present if possible. After the meeting, summarize any changes that arose out of your discussion e.g. prioritization of her work etc. if applicable. Basically maintain a smooth, calm, professional tone, lay out what your expectations are in writing and in person. After this, the law is laid down. If she doesn’t follow through then each time, write an email to document the issue, cc or bcc the HR person, and say that you are available to discuss if needed.
          After a couple of times of this, you have enough ammo to go to your superiors to make a case that she is performing far below expectations and ask for a change (either of her employment, or her coverage of you).

27. I’m heading to Chicago in a few and staying downtown. Any good shopping recommendations I won’t get in my small town. I’m more about the dresses for work and loved the shops I got referred to when I was in London ( Reiss, Hobbs, LKB) and in NYC. I have an MM LaFleur appt but are there any similar boutique type recommendations or just must do shopping experiences. I lived in Chicago until a few years ago so not looking for touristy info.

    1. I’ve had great experiences at the Trunk Club in Chicago. You get a glass of wine, a rack of clothes pre-selected for you, and a private dressing area with a stylist to help you figure things out. Not a bad way to spend two hours.

    2. Hmm not much is coming to mind… There is an LKB store at 900 N Michigan. We have a Ministry of Supply on Damen in Wicker Park. There is an Allbirds store on Armitage in Lincoln Park. None of those are really unique. TBH when I was out of state for law school what I missed were the second hand stores, like McShane’s Exchange. Def not for everyone but its pretty unique.

28. I feel like I’m drowning at work. I started a new role 3 months ago and keep making mistakes. I feel like I’m expected to know so much and I just don’t know what I’m doing.

    1. You’ve got this! You’re only 3 months in, no one expects you to know everything. I’m sure soon enough you’ll be up to speed and will know everything.

       I think everyone feels this way at a new job, so you’re not alone! Good luck!

       1. Thank you all for the kind words, it helped a lot!!

    2. Hang in there. I’m 6 months into a new job and just starting to feel like I have my feet under me.

       There’s still a lot I don’t know, but being willing to find out who does know has gotten me a long way.

    3. I got a new boss a year and a half ago. He came in completely green and didn’t know… anything. It was hard to respect him at first. However, he really earned my respect since. He asked questions about everything, prefaced with “I should probably know this but I really need your help understanding X” and quickly developed a solid knowledge base by going to me and all of my peers with these questions. His humility allowed everyone to be helpful to him. He turned out to be a great advocate and got us new resources we could never get prior and pushed to solve a number of very long-standing issues. Just an example of someone who likely felt exactly like you for a good long time and managed to ace it.

29. I didn’t make partner. I’m a 2010 grad in a firm that has an 8 year partnership track. The firm (and my mentors) said next year I’m almost certain to make it. I’m not sure I want to hang around that long. All of my law school classmates and everyone I started with at my first firm have either made partner or they’ve moved on to something else. I don’t know any 2010 grads who are still associates. I feel so embarrassed. Like I have a giant neon sign that says my firm doesn’t think I’m good enough. I don’t know where to go from here. I don’t know what I’m asking for, advice, commiseration?

    1. Hugs.

    2. Aw hugs. If it makes you feel better, I know quite a few ’08 and ’09 grads who are still in firms and not yet partners.

    3. I’m a 2010 grad with the associate title, so you know at least one 2010 grad who is an associate. I even know a 2008 grad who is an associate.

       I didn’t make partner at my previous firm, either, and it stung hard (even though I was never exactly sure I wanted it). I still feel like I’m walking around with a “Not Good Enough” sign on my head. I don’t know when that will get better.

       If your firm is giving you reason to believe you will make partner next year, then I don’t think you need to be so discouraged – it doesn’t sound like they’re planning to string you along forever. But it doesn’t hurt to look around, either.

    4. It’s becoming super-common to see 10th and 11th year associates, so don’t be embarrassed per se. But do be super-cynical about the “we’ll make you partner next year” promise. Very often, those don’t pan out. But if you’re happy to put in another year, go for it.

    5. I’m a 2010 grad from a top 10 school and only one person I know has made partner and he’s at a tiny firm.

       1. Yeah I always thought 9 years was kind of the minimum, with many taking much more. I’m a 2010 grad and don’t know anyone who has made partner at a large firm, although many people have made something intermediate, like “counsel” or “senior associate.” I’m no longer at a law firm, but at my ex-firm the standard was 6 years to be considered for promotion to senior counsel, then another 3 years after that before possible promotion to partnership, so 2010 grads would just now be coming up on their first possible opportunity for partnership. I just skimmed the website of my old practice group and it looks like most of the senior counsels are ’08-11 (even though technically ’12s could be) and I know a 2011 grad there who is still an associate, not even a senior counsel.

    6. Where do you live?? Because in NYC, I legit know people who are 13th and 14th year associates. My firm (v25) supposedly has an 8 year partner track and NO one makes it in 8 years by design — less than 9-10 is unheard of.

    7. Hugs. If it’s any consolation, I’m a 2010 grad and not even in the orbit of making partner. I don’t think any less of my classmates at firms who haven’t made partner. I think it’s kind of cool for those who have made partner, though I can’t really fathom wanting to make the sacrifices necessary to make partner.

    8. I was 12 years out before I made partner. There were a lot of reasons–I hit 7 years in 2008, and my medium firm merged into a larger firm that year. So, in 2008, I found myself just back from maternity leave, at a small satellite office of a big law firm in the middle of a recession. I finally made it in 2012. It was hard, and every year I didn’t make it sucked. But, once I made it, I was a partner. No one but me remembered how long it took or how hard the road was. And a lot of the people who made it earlier than me ended up leaving or not doing well. Once we were partners, we were all on a level.

       So, lots of commiseration. It sucks. Give yourself a couple weeks to feel those feelings. Then decide what to do next, and if you decide to try again, give it your all for another year. I think it’s great advice in law to run your own race and remember that it’s a marathon. This seems like a really big deal now. In the span of a 30+ year career, it is not. I am actually kind of grateful that I didn’t make partner until later, because I’m not sure I would have made it through the recession with my job as a young partner.

    9. I absolutely understand how you’re feeling but no one — and I mean no one — is thinking about this. Honestly! Your classmates who left firms probably don’t even keep track of their class year, and classmates who have made partner should be savvy enough to know that there are many, many factors that go into partnership decisions that have nothing to do with the quality of your work.

       My former colleague was class of 2000 and made partner in 2016. Yes, that’s not a typo. Admittedly, she lateraled as a fairly senior associate and then 2008 happened then our firm merged with another firm (at which point, btw, her title changed from “counsel” back to “associate” to line up with the new firm’s policy), but she’s a partner now and her title on the website doesn’t have an asterix next to it. All those years, she continued to work in an environment she likes, with clients and work she enjoys, for really superb compensation.

       If you want to leave the firm, don’t run away. Run to something. Take this time to figure out what you want your career path to look like and focus on the elements you can control. You can’t control whether we’re heading into a recession. You can’t control whether a rain maker leaves your group or whether your firm merges with another. You can take steps to build your own network and deepen your expertise and client relationships. Think about what work you like and try to do more of it.

    10. Hang in there and make it.

30. I need to vent because I got dumped yesterday and I’m heartbroken. I pretty much knew it was coming (he’s moving in January), but he also felt the need to tell me he’s not over his ex, which wasn’t great to hear. I know time will make it better, but gosh darn, it really sucks and I am really sad right now.

    1. Hugs. I am so sorry. Breakups suck NO MATTER WHAT. Do something indulgent for yourself this weekend.

    2. Hugs, I’m sorry. You are allowed to mourn and think less than nice things about him. Get thee to a spa this weekend. Or is that’s not in your interest or your budget plan a nature walk or something active or outdoors. Or get thee to a friend with a dog (or cat) you can pet.

31. Guess I am looking for anonymous hugs and ideas on how to pick myself up off the floor. I am in the throws of being made redundant from the company I have worked for for 25 years (no fault on my part, just finally not been able to hide from a corporate strategy that relocates my job to a low cost region) my husband is suffering from depression so is not able to be very supportive and pick up any slack, my parents are in their late 80s and don’t need my problems as well. Don’t need to make a rushed decision on what I do next, but d**m it is tough and I feel like there’s no one looking out for me.

    1. YOU are looking out for you, and you will land on your feet! Hugs.

    2. This is late and will almost certainly get caught in mod, but first, I’m thinking of you. This all sounds really hard. I’m sorry you feel alone. Big internet hug.

       Two, is there a friend you can call? Even if it’s been awhile, or they aren’t usually that kind of friend. Sharing what you’re concerned about in your life often helps and if your nuclear family isn’t in a position to be that person, pick a friend and go for it.

       Three, make a list of easy things that will give you a sense of control and accomplishment this week. Cancel Hulu! Update your LinkedIn! You get a big fat smiley or check mark for each one.

       Four, you mentioned not wanting to feel rushed and not feeling supported. If it would help, is there somewhere you could get away to for a weekend for some introspection on what comes next? A cheap mini-retreat essentially. Could one of your friends offer a guest bed for a Saturday night and could you spend some time at a coffee shop thinking deeply and making lists of where you want your next stage to go?

       Finally, this may be entirely irrelevant, so feel green to ignore, except for my first and last part: there are people pulling for you who haven’t even met you! You can do this and you’re not alone.

    3. Hang in there and sending you virtual hugs. To quote Senior Attorney, “the only way out is through”. This is a tough season in your life, but you will get through it
       In the meantime, I would focus on self care. Get more sleep, read, cook, take the time to declutter / get organized.

32. Hugs…sorry you are going through all of this….you’re looking out for yourself and that’s what matters. Work on tuning your resume and reaching out to your network to let them know you’re looking for a new opportunity- this is the beginning of a transition you are going through and you will come out the other side in a better place.

    1. Thank you Anon. Good advice for me to keep it in perspective.

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