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Updated: Nov 23, 2020 112 Comments · by

Underlayer Hall of Fame: Base Layer Long Underwear Thermaskin Pants

Workwear Hall of Fame | · ·

This post may contain affiliate links and Corporette® may earn commissions for purchases made through links in this post. As an Amazon Associate, I earn from qualifying purchases.

This is not the sexiest recommendation, but stick with me: whether you hate wearing unlined wool pants to work or you have a super windy commute or you're always freezing, don't forget about silky long johns for a really warm, comfortable base layer for your pants. (There are also layers for beneath tops and sweaters; just note that they're usually a bit on the sheer side.)

For long johns: they're more durable than tights, thinner than leggings — but I've always found the true magic of silky long johns to be in the strange way I forget I'm wearing them once I'm inside the building.

Lands' End has a number of cute options on sale right now (including the polyester/spandex long johns pictured, available in regular, petite and plus sizes), we've rounded up other good options for silk long johns under unlined work pants in the past, also.

Pictured: Base Layer Long Underwear Thermaskin Pants

2019 Update: We're adding these silky long johns to our Workwear Hall of Fame because after they are still around, coming out in new colors, and getting rave reviews. 

Pictured above: great long underwear as of 2024, $9-$145: one / two / three / four (see also!) — you can also use fleece tights in this situation!

This post contains affiliate links and Corporette® may earn commissions for purchases made through links in this post. For more details see here. Thank you so much for your support!

About Kat

Kat Griffin is the founder, publisher, and editor-in-chief of Corporette. You can read more about her here.

Comments

  1. Anon Lawyer

    I know a number of ladies here have gone through IVF–I could use some BTDT words of advice/encouragement. I’m on Day 4 of stims and had my first monitoring appointment today. I have 7 follicles on my right ovary and 4 follicles on my always under-performing left ovary. This is pretty close to what my doctor expected, since my antral follicle count has varied between 9-12. I’m 35. She seemed happy with where things were based on her expectations?

    Any thoughts on what this means in the big picture? Or is it just too soon to tell?

    • RR

      My IVF cycles were 6 and 11 years ago, so I don’t remember details of follicle numbers (other than I was always on the low end), but I wanted to say best of luck!

    • Anon

      I went through two fresh IVF cycles and one frozen transfer over 15 years ago in my early 30’s. Eighteen eggs fertilized the first cycle (started with about 23 follicles), leaving enough for a frozen transfer. No luck on either. The final fresh cycle produced only six fertilized eggs (and I started with 12 follicles), three of which made it to transfer. Nothing remained to be frozen yet it was successful. This experience leads me to believe there is a quality vs quantity aspect at play. Wishing you all the best!! I truly remember how it feels to pin all hopes and dreams on this process. xoxox

    • Anonymous

      You’ll drive yourself crazy like this! IVF is very individual. If your doctor says things are going well, assume they are and back away from the Internet.

    • Jeffiner

      Its definitely a quality over quantity thing. I had fewer follicles than you, and the doctor was only able to harvest 4 eggs, but 3 fertilized, which is a good percentage. I have a transfer this Friday. I can’t make myself not Google everything about this, so I read medical journals and scientific articles. The message boards stress me out and depress me, but the scientific articles actually help me prepare mentally and give me valid questions to ask my RE.

    • LHW

      You’re doing great! The others may catch up.

      But really, there’s nothing you can do to speed them up so I would try hard not worry about it. Repeat, it’s not quantity it’s quality. I had 12 eggs retrieved and ended up with one embryo. {Just had my retrieval last month}

      There are plenty of other things to worry about with IVF like the technician bumping the dish of your eggs and losing two and potentially damaging others. Sigh.

      Good luck. It stinks but not nearly as bad as I was expecting. Sending fertile vibes.

    • anon

      Everything changes from day to day. I’ve only done one IVF that was not successful and we are now pursuing adoption. If I was to do IVF again, I would ask to NOT be told the results of each scan. They are useless to know until they say it is go time.

    • Patricia Gardiner

      Good luck! Those sound like good numbers!

      It’s so emotionally tough. But you will get through it. I only had 2 eggs retrieved my first time but ended up with 2 embryos (neither took). Did several cycles and am now nursing the result of our first FET :)

  2. Ellen

    Kat, I LOVE these long underwear pant’s! I am wearing pant’s to work, then changing to skirt’s, but the long walk to and from 77th in the Winter is NOT my idea of a good time, particularly when the wind is blowing on Park or Lex. With these longunderwear’s, I should be able to withstand the cold better, b/c when I come in now, my l’egs are all red and I have to close my door to change unless I go to the ladies room down the hall, which I do NOT like b/c the skeevy janitor seems to always follows me into the bathroom about 7 times out of 10. That is NOT a good thing, and I do NOT like to have him come in when I am just in bra and panties. FOOEY on him!

  3. Anonymous

    For those of you who have initiated a separation/divorce, were there any checklists or toolkits you found helpful in the process?

    I decided over the holidays that I finally want to be DONE with my 15-year marriage (the last straws were 1) when he disappeared upstairs on Christmas Eve and left me to play Santa all by myself and 2) ignored my pleas to not invite his family for Christmas dinner and we ended up hosting a dinner party for 10 people, after which the kids and I had to catch a 7 am flight the next day). I am emotionally ready for this – but practically, not so much. Like, when do you hire the attorney? Should you have a rental place ID’ed already? At what point do you tell your children?

    I am normally a very organized, process-driven person, but the thought of this causes me anxiety (not us breaking up – just all the decisions and things that have to be done). The only thing that gives me a little stab of glee is that this isn’t something he can just expect I will magically handle on my own (like I do with pretty much everything else in our household) and he just show up to sign the papers.

    • OP

      Go ahead and chat with an attorney. They can talk with you more about the order of things. As for a new place, will you need to move out or do you want to stay there? Since there are kids, you may not have to leave unless you want to.

      Also, for me, it was overwhelming at first (and terrifying), but settling into it made it all feel more doable. (Caveat that we were good friends but not terribly close as spouses, if that makes sense, and I was on the receiving end, so it was scary to think of at first, but soon became exciting even).

    • DCR

      Step one is to find an attorney. Do not tell your husband or the kids before you’ve done so. Once you’ve hired the attorney, they can walk you through the other steps – it may not make sense for you to move out if you want to try to keep the house

    • Senior Attorney

      Yes, attorney. Don’t breathe a word to anybody until you’ve done that.

      This is what I did after that:

      Put half of our cash in a separate account that only I had access to. (In hindsight I wish I’d taken more because I had to set up an entire household and any inequity could have been worked out as part of the settlement.)

      Went out and found an apartment and put a deposit on it. I went home that very day and told my husband I had done so and I was leaving him. Moved into the guest room for the duration (apartment wasn’t going to be ready for a month.) In hindsight I might have waited until closer to moving day to break the news.

      We already had finances separate other than bank accounts (so cars, credit cards in separate names) and we didn’t have any non-mortgage debt, so it was relatively easy to separate the money. YMMV and you’ll need to think this through. If you have joint credit cards and you think he might charge them up, you might want to close them. Talk to your lawyer about this.

      I agree that if you move out you may well end up not getting the house. I moved out because I knew he’d never leave in a million years and it was the right choice for me even though he did end up with the house.

      When I actually moved out I paid for him to spend the night in a hotel so I could have the place to myself overnight for final packing and moving. Totally worth it. Also had a friend with me. And if you can send the kids to grandma’s by all means do that.

      I’d say tell the kids together as soon as you can reasonably do so. Hopefully he will be reasonable and cooperative.

      If you are in LA I will buy you a drink and let you cry on my shoulder. Email me at seniorattorney1 at gmail.

      Hugs! You can do this!

      • Anonymous

        +1 to all of this. But I would caution against taking any of the money from savings or joint accounts. My sibling’s ex did before filing for divorce. Because of the law, how things work here and other factors, ex had to pay lots of that money back to my sibling in the settlement. Make sure to clear it with your attorney before taking anything that is joint or shared.

        Sorry you are going through this. I wish you and the kids peace. Good luck!

        • anon

          Counterpoint: follow your attorney’s advice, of course, but taking half seems like a good safety net measure… just don’t spend it! As 5:16 said, you may be paying it back shortly.

        • Senior Attorney

          I totally get that you may well have to pay back some or all of what you take from joint accounts. (Although I ended up with my ex owing me money in the settlement and wishing I’d taken more up front.) The point of the story is that you will need money to get yourself set up post-separation, and it’s almost certainly a lot better to owe money to your ex than to put those expenses on credit cards. Clear this with your attorney, of course, but don’t knock yourself out protecting his share when you need to put a roof over your head and your kids’ heads.

        • Anon

          Well, duh, you take it and don’t spend it. Taking it isn’t so you can go on a shopping spree, it’s to prevent a spouse from spending it all.

    • Anon for this

      Yes, attorney first. Also, go through all your finances and make sure you have a really really really clear picture of everything. Save copies. Decide if you want to move out or try to keep your home and investigate rental options for yourself or him. Think about what you want for custody schedules – in my state the default is 50/50 and in most cases I think that’s best for the kids. Figure out what your finances are likely to look like short term and longer term – stop spending money while everything shakes out. Then do things in the order that your attorney recommends, and on what your instinct is on what is going to happen. Have all discussions with him and tell the kids together, after everything is settled between you. Good luck. It sucks, but it’s better on the other side.

  4. The original Scarlett

    Hi – I tried to comment on the morning thread and got popped into mod, but I’ve been posting under this name for years – could the online dating Scarlett please pick a different name?

    (I’m still just as good/annoyingly in love – thanks for the concern though SA!!)

  5. Anonymous

    What were everyone’s favorite looks from the Golden Globes? (Or, hey, all the ladies inaugurated to Congress last week)…

    • Anon

      Charlize Theron and Isla Fischer. I did not like Bradley Cooper’s white tux.

    • Anonymous

      Who was Nancy Pelosi wearing? The pink dress (which I initially misread as a red dress on the monitor).

    • S in Chicago

      I love Kaley Cuoco’s blue velvet and white with the pockets. It looked so fresh.

    • K

      Lady Gaga looked like a princess.
      One thing I noticed that a lot of women had really prominent blush. It looked cool! Is that a trend now?

      • Anon

        I didn’t like Maya Rudolf’s blush because it clashed with her lipstick. Did you notice that? I also though she and Amy weren’t as funny as they are capable of being, and I did not get that schtick about the proposal at all.

        • Waffles

          Apparently someone proposed to his/her significant other on an awards show recently, and they were parodying that. I didn’t find out the backstops until this morning too and I agree it seemed very un-funny to me too, at the time.

    • Anon

      The lady who plays Jane the Virgin and her outfit centered around that amazing necklace. Yes, thank you. More please.

    • Anon

      I loved Saoirse Ronan’s look with the simple dress + Chopard diamond and emerald earrings.

      My birthday is coming up and I pointed at them and asked my husband for the earrings for my birthday but I’m trying not to get my hopes up

      (I hope it’s obvious that I’m kidding)

    • Anon

      I LOVE white suits and I LOVE AOC, but I didn’t love the white suit she wore last week. Could’ve looked a little more put together, I think.

  6. Light fixtures

    I want to get some overhead lights installed in my bedrooms, and step one is to pick them out. Any recommendations for stores? I’m in the DC area if people have local recommendations

    • Anonymous

      I always drool over the lighting from Rejuvenation. Do you have flushmounts, a chandelier or fan fixture?

      • Light fixtures

        I want to have fanlights installed. I don’t have any lights at all, so this is the first step before electrician can start work

        • Anonymous

          When I was looking for a stylish fan light I liked LampsPlus. I got a Minka Aire, but they have a ton of nice ones.

  7. Atlanta with kids

    Atlanta is driveable to us. My kids really want to go to Legoland. I also want to go to the Ga Aquarium also (and the High Museum and the Atlanta History Museum and the Botanical Gardens; too much for one trip but would settle for brunch with a good college friend, hence the visit). Which is better to stay near? Are any good hotels walkable to either?

    Friend is in Little Five Points, so closer to the Aquarium (and the area I’m most familiar with).

    • Anonymous

      I would honestly skip the Legoland in ATL. My boys – who were 7 and 3 when we went – still talk about how disappointing it is. It’s tiny and inside a mall – a place to go if you are local but not something I would waste a tourist activity on. Consider a trip to the Coke Museum and the Fernbank. Atlanta has a CityPass where you can get a great deal on tickets to all of them. I would stay downtown or in Buckhead if you want to minimize driving.

    • ATL rette

      Aquarium is in downtown ATL, so a fair number of walkable hotels, but the area is pretty business-y so there aren’t a ton of non-chain dining options or things open outside of business hours.

      Legoland is at Phipps Plaza (mall) in Buckhead, which is also business but more residential by FAR than downtown. Lots of hotels in walking distance in Buckhead and overall nicer area.

      I’d stay in Buckhead and take MARTA down to the Aquarium and/or Little Five Points. Your options for food/connectivity are better in Buckhead! (Full disclaimer: I live in Buckhead ha)

      If you’re bringing the kids to Atlanta already, the Atlanta History Museum has a farm in the middle of the city and it’s pretty fun! I enjoyed it as an adult, so kids would probably LOVE it. Also in Buckhead, so if you stay at a Buckhead hotel their shuttle could drop you off/pick you up.

      Parking/traffic in ATL is a nightmare so I’d avoid it as much as possible.

    • LawyrChk

      I would stay in Midtown near the Botanical Gardens – probably the Loews, Hyatt, or W if your budget allows. I would definitely not stay near the Aquarium which is not a place I’d want to walk at night, especially with kids. History Museum and Legoland are both in Buckhead and perfectly fine options too (with pretty good marta access to downtown/midtown, or an uber would work as well).

      • cbackson

        I live in Midtown so I am an enormous partisan of this neighborhood. A selling point for your particular situation: very close proximity to Piedmont Park, so when your kids need to just run around in circles, they can do that without joyful abandon. Walkable to the High Museum and the Atlanta Botanical Garden (which is in the park) and a ton of restaurants. If you come in warm weather, there’s a splash pad in the park and a farmer’s market on Saturday mornings. The Garden has a great children’s section, so I would definitely do that.

        You’re also convenient to MARTA for the Aquarium (agree that I wouldn’t stay downtown for safety reasons), and you can MARTA to the Lenox Mall station and walk to Legoland as well.

  8. Attitude adjustment for dating?

    I promise that I am not a troll. Does anybody have tips on staying positive and perseverance in dating?

    My last serious boyfriend was someone that ALL my friends told me was not good enough for me. He broke my heart in an especially devastating way…five years ago. Nobody else has been interested in me in that time. Nobody. And since that is the case…I just find myself thinking that I am so much less attractive now – who will want me now when HE didn’t want me then? I have crow’s feet now. I just turned 37. I am in decent shape – 5’4, 120 pounds – but I was in better shape then, when HE didn’t want me…and nobody else has wanted me since.

    I go out frequently on my own. I travel for work. I eat dinner, have drinks, etc., alone all the time and nobody talks to me except the bartenders. I don’t think any guy has tried to pick me up since I was 22 years old…15 years ago.

    I know that I have great qualities. I am honest, loyal, compassionate, flexible, a great friend. None of that stuff was enough to keep a guy before. So why would it be now? Isn’t the proof in the pudding?

    • Anonymous

      Therapy – your value is not determined by whether or not one guy out of like 3 billion wanted to date you.

      It’s cliche but you have to love yourself before you can be in a solid loving relationship with anyone else. And when you are ready to meet someone, dining alone and hoping to be approached by random strangers isn’t really the best way. Try online and also try new activities IRL to meet new people or join a club or group for your current hobbies to meet people with similar interests.

    • Anonymous

      Do you have RBF? Or always have your nose in a book / face to a screen? That may be the reason no one talks to you. If you want talkers, try doing something else when you are out and about since no one talks to you now.

      I am no beauty pagent winner (in my youth, let alone now) but I am a smiley person who looks out more than down and have only gotten more and more attention as I age. If I know one thing, it is that as guys age, they are happy for any attention from a relatively attractive woman. And their eyesight is probably bad — they are not noticing your wrinkles or crowsfeet (or are bald and/or not trim themselves).

      • Flats Only

        Plus it’s dark in bars so they won’t be able to see your supposed wrinkles! Kudos to you for going out on your own. Definitely be smiley-ish so no RBF, and put your phone down. Sit at the bar and watch sports. Especially if you are watching an actual game vs. SportsCenter, people at the bar will notice it and talk to you because it’s fun to chat with fellow sports fans. I am 10 years older than you, outweigh you by 40 pounds, and am clearly married, and yet I get no shortage of attention while watching baseball/hockey at a bar by myself.

    • Anonymous

      You’re killing your own swagger here. The next time you go out anywhere (grocery store!) tell yourself you’re hot AF and anyone would be lucky to have a minute of your time. Keep that in your mind. I guarantee you someone will hit on you — it just may not be someone you need to date.

    • Anonymous

      I don’t think I’d want to date a guy who thinks it’s ok to bother a woman sitting peacefully by herself. My existence in public is not an invitation to harass me with some lame pick up line.

      I think there’s something to be said for putting yourself in a position to meet eligible men. Join a local softball or running team. Do some activity that you’re actually talking to people and that you can enjoy.

      • DCR

        +100! Just because I’m in public doesn’t mean I want a guy hitting on me. And from their perspective, it’s not a good return on investment. Most of the women they try to talk to you will be either married, in a relationship, gay, put off by random guy talking to them, or not interested. I don’t know a single decent guy in his 30s that tries to pick up random women at restaurants, stores or otherwise I would in the world.

        If you are actually interested in meeting someone, I highly recommend online dating and joining a new social groups. I’ve dated guys I met at meet ups, dated guys that were friends of people I met through social groups, and dated guys I met on dating aps. These are the main ways to meet people outside of work and school

    • Anonymous

      What are you doing to meet people? No one tries to pick me up and I’m not fending off suitors left right and center, but when I’m making a genuine effort to use bumble I can usually find a date a month.

      Dating is really really hard. But if you’re feeling like a 5 year old breakup is holding you back, it’s also ok to get some therapy for that.

    • Anon

      This is all in your head. As a 38-yr-old who’s your height and 20 pounds heavier, I should have even less perceived “value” in the dating market, but I date all the time, mostly men from online or setups. I have literally never been hit on since the drunken bar crawls of my 20s, and I don’t expect I ever will be. I’m just not approachable in public (nor do I want to be, honestly. My commute and errands are my “I’m listening to a podcast”zone out time).

      I don’t think hanging out in public places hoping to be hit on is a very effective way to meet men, especially at our age. Online really is the best way, followed by activities that put you in the path of eligible men. But even those activities can be hard because most guys our age are probably in relationships or married, so while it’s always nice to make new friends, if you want to meet single guys who are looking to date, the apps are where it’s at.

      Also, though, I recommend thinking about this as you looking for a guy that YOU like, not just hoping that men will be interested in you. It doesn’t matter if someone likes you if you’re not into him. Take control of it and think of it as your own personal search—make yourself an active participant. Right now you’re taking a passive approach. Once you take control, you’ll get more results.

      Good luck! I think you just need to reframe how you think about this stuff. I promise you that tons of men will be interested in you once you start putting yourself in the right places to find them.

    • Anon

      Please don’t expect to meet someone in a bar… I would imagine the type of men who would hit on you at a bar aren’t necessarily the type of men you’d like to date.

      You have to take matters into your own hands and try a dating service. It’s just what everyone does now.

      I’d also try to join a club of some sort tailored to your interests. My good friend met her now husband in a running club, and there is no way she would have met him otherwise. He’s a good guy, just not the online dating type.

      AND, ignore your girlfriends in the future when they tell you a guy is not good enough for you. I don’t mean your ex, he broke up with you in a devastating way, so in hindsight they were right. But a lot of times girlfriends are telling you to go for a guy that meets their own qualifications – someone they themselves would date – and that may be different than what works for you. I’m in a happy relationship with a man neither of my closest girlfriends would ever have gone on a first date with (I out-earn him, and they would not consider dating a lesser earner, and he also didn’t have a college degree when we met – he has subsequently completed a BA and MBA)

    • OP

      Thanks for the replies, hive. I am on the West Coast, in a place where allegedly women have all the dating leverage.

      Yes I agree that men who troll bars probably are not my demographic. But it is just more evidence that I am not desirable.

      I use the dating sites. Last month I met a guy who seemed crazy about me. On our last date, he was jokingly pairing my first name with HIS last name and telling me that I should buy the same car as his in a different color (“his and hers”). And then I never heard from him again.

      This is all the ever happens to me.

      • Anon

        Hi, it’s Anon 4:24 again. Some of your phrasing is very all-or-nothing catastrophic phrasing that’s unrealistic: “This is all that ever happens to me” “more evidence that I am not desirable.”

        NO. It is not all that ever happens to you. This is one weird guy who you’re better off for having out of your life! It is what happened to you then, last month. Something new will happen to you in the future, if you let it. But you have to let go of this kind of talk first.

        Are you seeing a therapist? Highly recommend if not. I used to talk like you all the time until my therapist pointed out the negative thought patterns. Now I catch myself before I say, “everything always happens like X for me” or “everyone else has Y.”

        I am no less single than I was before I went to therapy, but my perspective has changed immeasurably. So much of life is how you see it and approach it. Wishing you more positive experiences in the future.

    • Anon

      Yup, you definitely need therapy first. You sound like you don’t love yourself, and that’s more important than any of the rest of the stuff. (Says the woman who also hates herself and wonders why she can’t find a partner.)

  9. Anonymous

    I have a recurring issue with my BF and idk what else to do here. He’s otherwise great but he doesn’t seem to understand the concept of sleep. Here’s the pattern: he comes to bed when I’ve been asleep for several hours, I sleepily mumble hi or something, he figures oh good! you’re awake! and tries to have a Deep Meaningful Conversation with me, I’m already back asleep, and he feels hurt and rejected that I don’t respond. Sometimes he’ll take it a step further and try to wake me up, I (still asleep) tell him to be quiet/stop it/pound sand, and he gets even more angry and hurt that I was mean to him. Alternatively, sometimes he comes to bed when I’ve fallen asleep with the TV on and he asks permission to turn it off, I either don’t respond or say (while asleep) no, and he tries to argue with me, until I finally (still asleep) tell him to stop and go away. Then all I hear about the next day is how mean I am. FWIW I have little memory of most of this so I’m mostly relying on what he’s said.

    I have told him repeatedly, stop f*cking with me when I’m asleep. If you’re feeling chatty do not come to bed. If the tv is on then turn it off, don’t try to debate with me whether you should turn it off. You do not get to poke and prod me when I have been asleep for hours and then get mad at me for being super grumpy about it. Most recently, he stormed out at 2 am because supposedly I was mean to him when he asked to turn the tv off.

    I really like this guy but I’m sick of the unnecessary drama. Like it’s not hard just leave me alone when I’m asleep, I can’t possibly be the only person who’s a bear if you try to wake them at 2-4 am. I feel like I’m taking crazy pills here. Am I missing something?

    • Anonymous

      This is weirdly controling of him. I can’t believe he thinks it is acceptable to wake you up. You are super tolerant to put up with this so far. Is he this inconsiderate about other things? I’m assuming he has some really great other qualities if you are willing to put up with this happening more than once or twice.

      Sit him down and explain that if you are asleep, he should not wake you up unless it’s an emergency like the house is on fire or something. Like why on earth would it be okay to wake you up if it’s not an emergency?

      • OP

        The first time I brought this up, he said he thought I was awake because I said hi or whatever. “But you’re talking so you’re awake!” No dude I’m still asleep. I’ve told him, when I leave in the morning and you’re still asleep, I always give you a kiss on the cheek and sometimes you say, have a good day, do you ever remember that? No of course you don’t. BECAUSE YOU’RE ASLEEP. I don’t understand what he doesn’t understand about this. Am I explaining it wrong?

        • Anonymous

          You’re not explaining it wrong. It’s basic common sense to not waking a sleeping person without an important reason. Talk to him again and honestly I’d consider breaking up if he continues to do it. It is very disrespectful. Sleep is important to your health.

        • cat socks

          I think telling someone to stop messing with you when you’re asleep is pretty damn clear. I guess you could try explaining it again, but if he still does it again…that would be a dealbreaker.

        • Anon

          This isn’t on you to try to explain correctly. Your boyfriend is just being a d!ck.

      • Nesprin

        My husband does this all the time and is completely awful- he tried to have an important budget conversation with me an hour after my bedtime last week. It did not go well.

    • Anon

      So weird. Not normal. Not ok. Don’t put up with it. He gets one more chance (after a stern talking to, provided he has the qualities to merit it) and then he’s done.

    • Anonymous

      Omg just break up. He’s a stupid selfish child.

      And stop sleeping with the tv on that’s also stupid.

      • Mpls

        Eh – I go to sleep listening to the TV (it stops my brain spinning in circle. Different strokes. I do also set the TV to sleep after a certain time, though, so it doesn’t stay on all night.

    • Leah

      This is so exactly my life that I almost wonder if my husband is having an affair with you. He does this to me constantly. For him, it stems from his uncontrollable ADHD and life-long insomnia that he can’t get under control. He’s cycled through many types of meds and many doctors, with no success. Frankly I think he resents how easily I can fall asleep, and this is a bit of a passive-aggressive game to him.

      Your BF needs his own comfortable space to chill and entertain himself when he isn’t yet tired, and he needs to understand that entering the bedroom after X time means “do not pass go, just undress and get into bed for sleeping”. If he throws more tantrums, just remind him of the rule and don’t engage. He wants your reaction.

      I further emphasize my STFU zone by sleeping in ear plugs and a blackout mask.

      • Anonymous

        lol that would be a beautiful yet tragic clashing of ‘rettes!

        (reminds me of that Rilo Kiley song ‘Does He Love You’?)

    • Davis

      You’re right here and he’s being annoying and needs to change.

      I’m a huge fan of the Sleep feature on my TV. While that won’t solve the bf problem, it’ll help a little.

    • Mpls

      It kind of sounds like you guys should sleep separately, if possible. He may think it’s romantic to have Deep Conversations in the middle of the night (because that’s when he’s thinking about the thing?), but that’s only if you are both still awake. Would it be possible to have him go babysit a teething infant solo for a week and see if appreciates uninterrupted sleep then?

      Because I don’t know what else you can do to explain to an adult NOT TO WAKE THE SLEEPING person. Unless there is a fire that will kill them. Really, WTF?

    • Cat

      There are not enough WTFs in the world for this. DTMFA. And if he tries the “I didn’t realize this was such a big deal to you!!!” whiny apology, even more reason to DTMFA, because (a) he should know better in the first place, (b) failing (a), he should have listened to you in the first place, and (c) you shouldn’t have to break up to get his attention on something like this.

    • Anon

      This is really really crazy behavior (on his part! you feel like you’re taking crazy pills because he is in fact being crazy and trying to act like it’s somehow your fault). The most charitable explanation is that he’s massively immature and inconsiderate. The least charitable explanation is that he’s really creepily controlling.

      I honestly can’t come up with any possible explanation that would make this behavior not dump-worthy. It goes way beyond him not understanding the value of sleep. You’ve told him multiple times to stop and he not only keeps doing it, but he then gets angry and tells you how much HE’s hurt blah blah blah. Seriously all kinds of alarm bells are going off. This is not okay.

    • Senior Attorney

      The thing that you are missing is that he doesn’t care about what you want/need. You’ve told him what you want/need and he is ignoring you. As somebody said above, give him one last very stern warning and then DTMFA if he steps over the line again.

    • Anon

      What a terrible man child. I can’t imagine this is the only issue in your relationship. I imagine he gets all bent out of shape any time you disagree with him, and tells him you were “mean” to him.

      This guy is always going to expect you to be his mommy. Being alone forever with 17 cats is 100 times better than being with a man like that.

    • Anon

      I am super protective of my sleep (because my days are so non-stop hectic and stressful, I really need it to function), almost to the point that I can be a little militant about it. I’m trying to be more chill about it, but this would be absolute no-no behavior for a partner of mine if I had previously sat him down and explained why this doesn’t work. I had an ex who would wake me up for s-x and it made me soooo grumpy (and in turn made him hurt and offended because i would say no to his advances because I was in a deep sleep). There’s a reason he’s an ex.

      • CL

        I’m also extremely protective of my sleep! I had a change of schedule which resulted in very early mornings / early nights and my husband started to guilt trip me for going to bed so early. I nipped that in the butt right away with a stern talk about being supportive of each other’s schedules and he hasn’t said a beep about it after that and is now quiet as a mouse after I go to bed.

  10. Too Much Family

    This might be too late for responses, but here goes: How do you decide whether/how to be with someone whose attachment to family is much, much greater than yours?

    I like my family, but seeing them once or twice a year for a few days is fine with me. I have been dating a great guy for the last 18 months and over the holiday season it became apparent that he thinks it is bizarre that anyone would spend the holidays not around family. He would be happy to split holidays with my family (a terrible thought), but the idea of spending Christmas in a hotel somewhere does not appeal to him at all (his response to me mentioning that was literally “but Christmas is for family”). Similarly, he really likes to get together with his father (his mother passed away when he was young), siblings and other assorted family members for dinner several times a month, which strikes me as excessive. And he talks to one of them virtually every day (I swear I think he and his sister text each other more than he texts me). I am finding myself starting to resent the fact that if I try to call while he is driving home from work, he is not going to pick up because he was talking to Dad/brother/sister/etc.

    To be super clear, his family has always been completely nice to me and I realize this is petty, but I would rather spend my Sunday nights hanging out with our friends or doing stuff instead of making conversation and playing with his nephews. And I recognize this is not something I am going to change about him (this was the subject of our biggest fight – where he essentially told me that I don’t have to hang out with his family, but I don’t get to dictate his relationship with them and suggested that I do not value my family enough because I have not lost a parent). So how do I deal? How much of a problem is it realistically? Anyone out that have any experience?

    • Anonymous

      I’d say if you’re considering this as a long-term/marriage type relationship that yes, it’s a problem. It wouldn’t be a problem to me if you said “I don’t want to spend time with my family, but I am fine with his.” That’s cool. You do you with your family. If he doesn’t feel the same way about his own family, that’s tough. It’s unlikely you’ll “pull” him away from his own, and if you do, he may resent it.

      • Anon

        “It wouldn’t be a problem to me if you said ‘I don’t want to spend time with my family, but I am fine with his.'” This.

        It’s perfectly ok for you to not be close to your own family for whatever reason. But it’s not ok for you to want someone who is close to their family to distance themselves for you. You aren’t the right people for each other.

        FWIW, my husband’s entire family – 70 something people – all live within 90 minutes of each other and get together monthly, if not weekly. My closest relatives, on the other hand, live 7 hours away and “keeping in touch” is sending a Christmas card once a year.

        And yeah, my dad died when I was 4 and all I had was a single mom and my grandparents (extended family was the aforementioned 7 hours away). I’ve latched onto DH’s Norman Rockwell-type family like super glue…just because it’s what I’ve always wanted and not had. Closeness with family is something I really looked for when dating because it’s something I never had and always wanted. So I see where your boyfriend is coming from. You guys might really like each other, but long term, I don’t think you’re not right for each other.

    • Anon

      You are not the right girlfriend for this guy. He loves his family and you think it’s weird. He told you that you don’t have to hang out with his family but you don’t get to dictate his relationship with them, and he’s right.

      I think you’re asking him to prove he loves you above his siblings and his nephews etc, to the EXCLUSION of them. This sounds like gross insecurity on your part, and I suggest you look into why you feel that way, not why your boyfriend is close to his family.

      • Anon

        +1. You guys aren’t compatible. Tbh, it sounds like he has been more than fair (offering to split holidays, making it clear that you aren’t expected to hang out with them if you don’t want to) and since that isn’t working for you, you need to just break it off.

      • Ellen

        I think I would not be to harsh on this guy. He sounds fine, but possibly not for you. There are alot of people that speak daily or almost daily to their family — I know I do, if not to Rosa, then to Mom & Dad, or Grandma Leyeh or Grandma Trudy, or all of them. I do NOT think that is at all weird, tho I understand you think differently — not that there is anything wrong with that. If I ever met a guy who was otherwise “great”, as you describe him, then I would overlook this and try and see if I could fit into his world, if I were you. There are so few “great guys” out there — in fact most guys have other hangups — it is impossible to find a perfect match, Dad says, b/c if I, a pretty and accomplished attorney at law who makes a good living cant find one that meets MOST Criterion, then probably he does not exist! Put another way, you will probably have to settle anyway, so if this is an otherwise great guy who you do want to spend time with and have s-x and a family with, then this is the price you have to pay. Besides, you do not mention any other men lining up right now, so you will likely be alone for at least some period of time if you dump this one. So think hard before getting rid of him, the way others are suggesting. You do NOT want to be alone tending to your own garden if this guy is otherwise salvagable, which he may VERY well be. THINK before you react to these HIVE posts, as there is no perfect guy out there. YAY!!!!

    • DCR

      I don’t think either position is bad or wrong, you’re just incompatible.

      Do you want to have children? If not, I can kind of see this working out long-term so long as you are willing to spend a lot of time apart (he hangs with his family, you hang with your friends). But it doesn’t seem workable at all if you want children. He will want them to hang out with his extended family, and that’s just not what you like. I think you should break up

    • cbackson

      So it sounds a little bit to me like your issue isn’t how much time he spends with his family, it’s that you feel like he cares about his family more than he cares about you. It’s not super-weird to think that Christmas is a family holiday, or to have dinner with your family members a few times a month, or to talk to a sibling every day. But what I read in your post is that you’re comparing the emotional attention he gives to them to the emotional attention he gives to you, and you’re not happy with the balance.

      How recently did his parent die?

      • Anonymous

        Yeah anyone who hints that I’m spending too much time with my widowed father gets a hasty Bye!

    • Anon

      His closeness to his family is not the problem, it’s on the spectrum of normal relationships for close families. The issue is that you want to change his relationship with his family to suit your needs – in that argument he was perfectly right and you know it. No one is forcing you to spend all your time with his family. If you require more one on one time than then man can provide you because he splits his social time split with family, friends, and you, that’s fine, it means you aren’t well suited. You make no indication that they are intrusive or he neglects you. Trying to frame him spending a lot of time with his family without you is a problem is self serving and you just want a co-sign that you’re right and he’s wrong (you’re not). Your lack of closeness with your family is no better or worse than his closeness with his, just because someone is different doesn’t make that difference a problem.

      How do you deal? 1) Understand that time spent with his family is the price of admission and just scale back your time with them to something you both agree is reasonable, ex. holidays, big events (graduations, funerals, weddings) and maybe once a month dinner and spend the rest of your time as you see fit. 2) Find someone that isn’t close with their family and spends time in a similar way as you.

      But seriously if the worst thing about this guy is that he sees his family a lot and is close to them, please send him out into singleness for other women to appreciate.

    • Anonymous

      Break up. It’s a huge deal. I’m like him and would break up with someone like you. You don’t like that I like my family? Have a great life in hotels without me.

    • Blueberries

      I’m going to agree with others that this probably isn’t a long-term match. Neither of you are wrong in your own approaches, but they just don’t work so well together.

      On top of the time issue, think about level of involvement. If this guy hangs out with his family so much, what are his expectations for their general involvement in his life (where he lives, input on what couch he buys, etc)? Do those align with your comfort level with their involvement in your shared life?

    • Anon

      You guys need to break up. His relationship with his family isn’t a problem or morally wrong, but it’s not compatible with what you want. You’re both going to be miserable and resentful if you try to make this work long term.

    • Anonymous

      I have several friends who talk to their parents every day. I think it’s weird and their families are overly involved in their lives. It works for them and doesn’t affect me but I wouldn’t want to date them.

      I dated a guy who saw his family several times a week. He could not understand why it was awkward and boring for me to go over there and listen to them talk for hours about people I don’t know. It was like being a kid again – the only child at Thanksgiving and all the adults are talking about things you don’t understand and no one wants to talk to you but your parents hold you hostage at the table for HOURS because it’s the polite thing to do. I will put up with this a couple of times a year, not every week. The family wants to catch up with their kid, there is no reason I need to be there.

    • rahm

      I’m in a similar situation, although I’m the one closer to my family. The main thing is to accept each others’ choices. I don’t get to urge DH to be closer to his family and he doesn’t get to resent the time I devote to mine. Please try to squelch the feeling that you’re in competition with his family for his time – it was one of the low points of our relationship when my spouse (then bf) felt that way. I felt like he was asking me to give up my family, while they weren’t asking me to abandon him. FWIW, both DH and I lost parents and I think your bf’s argument is BS on that score.

    • Anon

      My husband is like this. He has a big family (many aunts, uncles, cousins, nephews and nieces). He is also a person who loves spending time with them. For him, vacation means meeting friends/family. I have a small family and love them and spend time with them, but it is no way comparable to his.
      For me, I never felt he should not spend less time with his family. In fact, his eyes light up when he meets his family and all the hugging, laughing that they do makes me happy for him. There is no way I want him to lose that part of life. However, I need his time too. So, I have few things that I need, like one vacation per year without the extended family, regular date nights just for two of us etc. I am completely okay with him spending more time with them than me as long as my needs are met and he has taken care of that.

    • Too Much Family

      Thanks everyone for your thoughtful comments. I need to sit myself down and make a decision (and then live with it). A big part of the problem is that I have been letting resentment build (hence getting annoyed when he is texting his sister; talking to his Dad on the phone while driving – I KNOW I am being ridiculous and petty but my general annoyance level is high). I especially appreciate the people who said not right/wrong; just incompatible. Either way this goes, I appreciate your time.

  11. Anonymous

    Having a Monday? My burrito blew up onto my tights and boots and it looks like my gorge rose.

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