Tuesday’s Workwear Report: Spencer Suit Pant

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1. Any recommendations on how to spend & what to see in Mexico City in end Feb/beg March? I will be visiting friends who live in the West Coast, but would like to spend a few days [3-4] in MC before I join them. I like walking, photography, museums. Is it reasonably safe for a single female tourist, if I stick to main touristic areas?

   1. I highly recommend the Frida Kahlo house! I have no other recommendations, I was there for a work trip ;)

   2. The anthropology museum is incredible and a day trip to Teotihuacan was totally worth it as well. I was traveling with a man but walked and took public transit everywhere and did the day trip in a public bus and always felt safe; not sure if I would have felt differently on my own. There’s also a famous churros place that I can’t remember the name of that was totally worth it (it has a blue and white tile interior).

      1. It’s Churreria Moro, and it’s yummy! The original one is in the centro historico. I went there with friends late one night, and although the cafe itself was hopping, outside it seemed a bit desolate so we took a car service back to our hotel. The Moro location in Roma is very clean, new, and feels safe. It looks like there are lots of other locations.

         I second the earlier recommendations. The museum of anthropology is an awe inspiring, world class museum, and you could spend hours there (well, I did). The casa azul (Frida Kahlo’s home) is fascinating on a much more personal level. I found it very moving to see the various crutches and devices that Kahlo used to manage the enormous physical pain that she experienced.

         The neighborhood of Condesa is charming and walkable. I highly recommend the Red Tree House for your accommodations. A note: My friends were in CDMX during the Thanksgiving break, and they found that several metro lines were closed without notice or explanation. They ended up taking car services around the city. Uber is ubiquitous there.

   3. I will leave it to others to give recs and comment on their experiences with safety. But my friend was in Mexico City on business and she and her boyfriend were kidnapped, assaulted and robbed.

      She is now alive and safe, thank goodness, but it was a terrifying and harrowing story. Her boyfriend was beat up, and she was nearly s3xually assaulted. The little bit of Spanish she was able to speak probably saved her life. They were taken and held in a deserted ?place outside of the city, tied up, their credit cards/bank cards/passports were taken and the kidnappers demanded their PIN numbers and went to withdraw $$. They were finally released the next day in some random part of the city, where they nearly got robbed again.

      Based on her experiences, she said she made two big mistakes. They got drunk at dinner, and then made bad/unsafe decisions when their judgement was clouded. And then they took a taxi from the restaurant where they were eating/drinking that was an unsafe taxi. The restaurant had called the taxi for them and my friend’s radar was up when the taxi arrived and she realized it was NOT on the list of approved, safe taxi companies that they had been given (by the organizers of her business conference? her hotel? not sure….). Her boyfriend said… “This is a nice restaurant! I’m sure this taxi company must be fine if they called them….. whatever….”. So my friend didn’t want to make a scene, and they just took it. The taxi driver had a pre-arranged plan with the kidnappers and my friend was not familiar with the city, so when the taxi shot off and drove to some dark deserted alley she started getting nervous. Then the taxi suddenly stopped, and the back doors of the taxi flew open and two guys with large guns jumped in. And then they stabbed her boyfriend.

      But again – everything worked out in the end. Boyfriend was fine. My friend was fine, and went and gave her important work talk and did great. Her boyfriend flew home early and she never heard from him again.

      The last time I was in Mexico, when we were driving our cute Volkswagon beetle back to the airport to leave, we got pulled over by the police. We were not speeding or anything. The police just liked to park near the airport, knowing when the big flights to the States were leaving, and they would pull cars randomly over and say they would need to take you back to the police station for questioning/whatever. So you had to bribe them or else you would miss your flight. Really put a caul over our entire trip. Fortunately, my friend was driving, fluent in Spanish and told them we didn’t have any cash, and got us out of it.

      1. I’m so sorry what your friend went through. How horrible. I hope she’s doing ok now, mentally.

      2. Same, I’ve heard similar stories from friends in other parts of Mexico. I also have had 5 friends separately go to Mexico City over the past several years and not one didn’t get severe food poisoning— several were hospitalized. Its a shame but I would never go to Mexico (City, at least) when there are safer/cleaner places to go if you need winter warmth. On the contrary a friend’s parents retired down to Puerta and seem reasonably happy there.

         1. I am heading to Mexico to visit close friends who relocated there. I wanted to add a few days to see MC.

         2. That is interesting – we and a bunch of people we know have been to Mexico City with no illness at all. On the other hand, my DH got very sick in Thailand (I didn’t, but I followed all the rules about what not to eat religiously) and everyone we know who has been to Africa, even on very posh $$$$ safari trips, has gotten sick.

      3. “Her boyfriend flew home early and she never heard from him again.” This is almost the worst part of this story. He didn’t even have the decency to make sure she got home alright after that experience, not to mention didn’t have the decency to actually break up with her instead of ghosting? Pathetic.

         1. This is nowhere near the worst part of the story?!?!?!

            1. I expect robbers to commit robberies, I don’t expect boyfriends to ghost their SOs. Grow up and breakup with someone. That’s all.

            2. I wouldn’t say “worst” but it was definitely the most shocking part of the story! I did a double take
               When I read it!

   4. One of my favorite cities! I went there for the first time this past May, and we’re going again this Dec! My favorite activity was just walking around the Roma Norte and Condesa neighborhoods, which are full of cafes, restaurants, boutiques, parks, and beautiful architecture. I went with my husband so I can’t speak to the single female experience, but in general areas frequently by tourists felt safer to me than comparable large US cities. Chapultepec Castle in Chapultepec Park (sort of like their Central Park) is gorgeous and you could walk from there to the Anthropology museum.

   5. Watching with interest! We’re going to another part of Mexico this weekend but Mexico City has always been near the top of my list for places I’d like to see.

      Over Thanksgiving, my in-laws went through all of their “one time we were in Tijuana and something slightly shady happened” stories, which just makes me want to travel all over Mexico and the rest of Latin America.

   6. I was just there for Dia de los Muertos. My friend and I were there for a week. For part of the trip we joined an Intrepid Tour. But honestly, we could have done most of it ourselves. For museums we went to Freida Kahlo house, Templo Mayor Museum, Museo Mural Diego Rivera, Diego Rivera Anahuacalli Museum, and Museo National de Antropologia. They were great. We went on a boat trip in Xoxhimilco. We took a separate bus tour to Teotihuacan Pyramids. It was not expensive and the tour made the transportation super easy. We took a day trip to Tepotazotlan and climbed the mountain to the Aztec temple at the top. It’s a super strenuous hike but I am so glad I did it. I never felt unsafe walking around even at night. CDMX is similar in size and population to New York. If you can handle NYC, you can handle Mexico City. Plus, the food is so good. Our last night, we went to dinner Azul Historico. The food was fabulous and it was not super expensive. $75 for the two of us. I would go back. there is so much to do and see.

      1. All of this sounds super fun and the kind of vacation/trip I’d take with my nuclear family. My parents and in-laws would have a fit, but then again they all fretted about us going to New York City!

   7. Thank you all for your tips, helpful as always.
      Sorry to read the scary experience, I will remember to be extra careful with taxis (also not to drink).
      To clarify, I have been to Mexico (but not Mexico City) many times and never had any issues (safety or food). But I wanted to checl for MC specifically. Thanks again!

2. Recs for things to see/do and places to eat in Charleston SC? Will be going in June for 5 days and staying in a hotel downtown by the waterfront park. Won’t have a car but willing to walk. 2 adults no kids.

   1. Not a unique recommendation, but Post House Inn is really delicious. I also really like Kiawah Island if you’re interested in venturing out a bit.

      1. Reading comprehension fail, I thought you said you would have a car. I will echo later posters that 5 days with no car is a long time in Charleston. I would reconsider and rent a car for a least part of the time (3 days). Downtown is very small – you can get through the it in a day or less IMO.

   2. Breakfast at Callie’s Hot Little Biscuit and dinner at R Kitchen.

      1. Loved dinner at R Kitchen! Highlight of our trip.

   3. Hot take but I found Charleston really underwhelming. The city itself is tiny and you can easily walk around it as able bodied adults.

      That said, Halls steak house was awesome and totally lived up to the hype. Sit at the bar, order a martini, and chat with the excellent bar tender and locals seated next to you.

      We also like Miller’s all day cafe for breakfast and lunch.

      Raw 167 was good but it doesn’t take reservations. We swung by there right when they opened for dinner, put our names in and then went to the roof of the restoration hotel around the corner for cocktails.

      I recommend a boat tour. It was really nice to be out on the water and learn a bit of history.

      With five days, I’d also go out to Sullivan’s island, spend time walking the beach and get a burger at Poe’s tavern.

      1. I like Charleston but agree 5 days for an adults only trip is VERY long. I think you’ll get bored quickly. I would plan lots of day trips out of the city or even a couple nights staying on one of the nearby islands or the low country.

   4. Do a ghost tour! It was a fun way to walk around the city at night. We then went to get dessert at Kaminsky’s, which was also great and just happened to be right around the corner from where the tour ended.

   5. 5 days would be a lot without a car. You can literally walk the entire city part of it in a day. I like Husk for dinner.

   6. As others said, strongly recommend you get a car. Charleston is cute but you can see it all in half a day. You’ll mostly probably want to go to the beach. Ubers/Lyfts are extremely inconsistent and I wouldn’t want to rely on their availability. If you’re a nature person it’ll be buggy but you could take a day trip to Congaree.

      1. are there more taxis in the area?

         1. Not in my experience. It was a very car-centric city. (I took a Lyft to a concert (was staying about a 15 minute drive away) and then literally got stranded there for an hour after because I couldn’t get anything to take me home. Finally got an Uber for $100 surge price (I had paid $20 to get there). Maybe it was a one-off experience but I would not risk it.

   7. Middleton Place, which is about 20-30 minutes from downtown, is worth a visit in order to get a first-hand understanding of the economic history of Charleston, including the rice industry and the slave labor that supported it. When I was last there (2014 or so) they did a really good job of telling that story without whitewashing, and that knowledge really helps you understand where the things that make Charleston special come from – from food to crafts to architecture.

3. How much do you pay for a cleaning service? I’m in DC, so high cost of living but not SF, and it’s a 1400 sq ft townhouse. I had a cleaning service come yesterday and it was almost $300 for two people to work one hour. That seems like a lot to me, especially since they didn’t do a good job and there was still noticeable dirt on the ground. Is that a normal price? This was a treat for myself after having people in town for thanksgiving. I was hoping to make it a normal thing, but it doesn’t seem worth it for that quality of service at that price.

   1. If there is noticeable dirt, try another service.

      I pay $200 per service and a team of 4 people come, but I am in a LCOL area.

   2. DC area – we pay $130 for two people for two hours to do an amazing job but we FULLY tidy first so they don’t have to do any tidying. My experience is in the DMV they price you based on the level of tidying but don’t tell you that — maybe try another service but FULLY tidy first and see what they charge?

      1. Can you share what service you use? The place was tidied before hand, so they shouldn’t have spent any time doing that

         1. Sorry – they only work in MoCo.

            1. Do you have a neighborhood listserv? I’d start by asking for recommendations there.

   3. That does feel like a lot. This isn’t an exact comp since I’m in a LCOL city but I pay 200/service for two people to work about 2 and a half to 3 hours on my 4000 sq ft house. I do feel like they do a good job.

   4. I’m in the DC burbs and pay $135 for 2800 square feet. Most of the quotes we received were around $200, so no idea how this service is so low. I’d share their info, but they don’t work in DC.

      1. I am at 160 per visit twice a month for a 2100 square-foot house in NoVa and they probably clean 1600 feet of it and two bathrooms.

         1. In Alex. I pay $160/wk for 4500 sq ft, though we only use maybe 2200 sq ft of it (she’ll rotate through the unused rooms top keep them from getting dusty, but doesn’t do them every week). I’ve had my lady for nearly a decade and she’s like family. I know I’m getting a low rate – I tip generously, raise her rate every year without her asking, and pay her on the 1st of every month for the whole month, regardless if we use her the whole month. (Ex, if we’re out of town for a week, I’ll tell her to skip us, so that’s $160 free to her.)

   5. I have a 4000sq fT house in an inner Boston suburb. Our cleaners clean about 2800sq ft (they don’t do our lower level or our guest suite). They clean 4brs/2.5 baths.

      We pay $120 for biweekly cleaning. It’s usually 2-3 people that stay for 1.5-2 hours. They do a decent but not amazing job which works well for us since we hire out since we have 3 kids and two busy adults. Things are mopped and cleaned, they always show up and nothing is ever broken/ruined. They have been our cleaners for 7+ years. They are no “go clean co” cleaners but who am I to talk ;).

      Others in our neighborhood pay $150-$200 for biweekly service.

   6. Why only one hour? If they suggested they could clean a townhouse in one hour that’s a red flag to me

   7. Was it the initial clean? Usually that is 1.5-2x more than “maintenance” jobs. I would also follow up with pics to show where they left messes.

      1. +1 this has been my experience as well on the initial clean

      2. Yeah the initial clean should cost a lot more, easily double a regular clean. But it should also leave your place spotless. I’d be more concerned about the mess than the price.

   8. That seems high to me. I’m also in DC and pay $150 for 1200 sq ft (usually 2 cleaners for almost 2 hours)

   9. That seems like a lot. I am in a MCOL and my cleaner charges $45 an hour for regular cleaning and $55 for deep cleaning. It took a few tries to find someone I was happy with, so I think you should try again with someone else before giving up!

   10. In Northern New Jersey and I pay $160 for 2100 sq foot, 4 bedroom, 1.5 bath house. It’s 1 person and she is there for about 2.5-3 hours. She does an amazing job and will “surprise” me from time to time and deep clean something (the oven, the fridge, etc). I should add that I’m a neat freak; I have no clutter for her to work around.

       1. That’s very very cheap!

          1. I know. I also tip her handsomely every visit.

       2. also nnj. would you share cleaners contact?

   11. We pay $200 every other week for a team of 2 to clean our 2500 square foot house in Silver Spring.

   12. That does sound like a lot of only one hour and a bad job. I obviously wouldn’t use them again.

       1. I would actually contact the service. We have a service (160/tip included for a 2 bd, 2 bath in NYC) and they are good but when I had them do a “deep clean” they sent a new person and he was not good – showed up late, left early, literally left dirty dishes and a dirty napkin under the dining table. I called the service and they offered to send someone new free or to refund me half the cost. It’s worth a conversation!

   13. That does seem high. I pay $200 and they send a large team (4-5 people?) for one hour. 2,500 sq ft house with 4 bedrooms and 2.5 bathrooms in a LCOL area.

   14. That seems high unless it was a “first clean surcharge” for a deep clean… in which case your place really should have been spotless! Anecdata, we pay $200 for one person who works 4ish hours, similar sized place in Philly, and there is not a speck of dust on the floor when she leaves.

   15. In DC suburb, 650 sq ft studio. My initial cleaning was about $200 and they had 4 people. Cleanings since have been just over $100 and it’s with 2 people.

   16. $160 for two people avg two hours, 1300 sq foot house. LCOL so this is high for my area but they are great and I trust them and am happy to pay it.

   17. Montgomery County – We pay the lady who cleans for us $150 for 2400 sq foot house biweekly. The initial clean was more (Or rather relatively more – the initial clean was $150 at the time when the regular clean was $100 but this was ten years ago).
       I think you can shop around for a lower rate.

   18. I pay $150 for a 2 bedroom, 1 bath, 900 sq ft apartment in NYC, every 2 weeks. I’ve had the same person for years. She sometimes does it in 4 hours, but sometimes she’s there all day because she takes breaks to make personal calls for medical/legal issues, takes a break for lunch etc. I just pay her for the job, not hours worked. I also let her bring her kids when she has no childcare (they are lovely). She does a very thorough job and sometimes does “extras”, like the inside of the fridge or cabinets, the baseboards, and the windows. I usually keep things pretty neat, and I tidy and run the dishwasher before she comes so there’s not much to pick up. My friends pay her $250 to come weekly for a similarly sized apartment but they are VERY messy so she does a lot of tidying for them, and sorts and takes out all their trash, and does a ton of dishes (she’s usually there 7-8 hours, but sometimes longer).

   19. $150 for 1600sq ft 3 bed 2 bath + basement vacuum every other time (biweekly cleanings). VHCOL NYC suburb. She does it by herself in three hours. She does a B+ job and requires some specific directions. She’ll miss stuff here and there but I am ok with it for now. I like her though as a person and can’t be bothered to find a new one since they are so hard to find around here. I spend a good amount of time tidying (I have a toddler).

       I used to pay $170 + tip biweekly for a team of 2-3 ppl (a cleaning company) for 1000sq ft 2bed 2bath in a VHCOL NYC suburb. They did a better job, but the people always changed and they were always SO late, so I prefer the consistency of having the same person in my house and her punctuality. I trust her enough to leave her alone and run errands.

   20. MCOL city, $140/month for 3 people for 1.5 hours for a 1200 sf house. It’s more than I paid pre-pandemic in my HCOL city ($80/2 people/1.5 hours) for a comparable space but cheaper than some rates I’m seeing. Note a lot give you a better deal after the first cleaning, or if you do two or more cleanings a month.

   21. MCOL in Mountain West. We pay $125 every week for one person to spend 3-4 hours in our 2000 sq ft house. We also keep it VERY tidy so she is mostly just doing floors, bathrooms and sheets.

4. Is there any particular skincare product or treatment that helps crepey under eye skin? Really noticing it on myself lately…

   1. Moisturizer will help if the skin is just dehydrated. Eye creams are the same as face creams but more concentrated. I’d try a basic one and see if it looks better. Sometimes eye creams that have caffeine in them do a temporarily depuffing but that doesn’t sound like your issue.

      There’s nothing non-invasive that can really help except prevention of further issues – tretinoin can help but most people can’t really tolerate it right next to the eye, and it’s not really recommended to be used there. Sunscreen or sun protection daily you should start now if you’re not doing it already.

      1. +1

         Sunglasses always.

   2. I’ve tried the The Ordinary Argireline solution, and like it. It’s a fairly low cost eye treatment.

   3. Filler.

   4. Only works as long as you’re using it, but I like Darphin Stimulskin eye creme for the best results on my increasingly creepy eyes. Chanel usually has a good one too. If you’re near a store go ask for a sample sufficient to get you through a couple of weeks, which is long enough to see if it’s going to give you results you’re happy with.

      1. Crepey eyes, not creepy, although some mornings I would have to agree with autocorrect.

5. We had a really driving cold rain last week that has me swearing off of pants like this and also needing to get some waterproof booties with a flat or no more than 1″ heel. Offerings at Sorel are a bit too out there for me this year. Any other recommendations? My past Sorels were awesome but also a bit too 2017 (and stained blonde suede) for the office now that I’m back in one. Prefer black b/c that is my winter color palette.

   1. Blondo? Lots of conservative looking options and supposedly waterproof.
      Also – skirts/tights in rain is the way to go, imo.

      1. FYI, my blondes fell apart fast! I was quite disappointed.

   2. They don’t have a ton of waterproof options but I love all of my Ecco ankle boots.

   3. I just got some lug soled Chelsea water proof wedge boots from cole haan specifically for this purpose and I love them.

   4. If your past Sorels were awesome, send them to the cobbler’s and dye them black . It’s actually not a hard DIY job, but a little messy. Black boots are black boots and no one is going to judge black winter boots as not being sufficiently fashion forward.

   5. I have a couple of pairs of sofft ones I really like. Look at Nordstrom or Dillard’s for a wide selection.

6. How do you approach writing a letter of reference when you strongly suspect a direct report has been dishonest, but there is no proof?

   Background: My report has called in sick a number of times in the three months we have worked together. Once, on a day I was out of town, she was assigned to work with other supervisors during the day. In the morning that day she made comments to her peers that she was tired, didn’t feel like attending the afternoon meeting, needed a long lunch. During lunch she texted the manager she’d be with in the afternoon that she had food poisoning and had to go home. Her peers were so suspicious they brought it my attention. I spoke to her a few days later and she said that indeed she did have food poisoning. I decided I had to take her at her word, but I didn’t buy it. This also has made me look back and wonder about the two different personal emergencies she had and called in for.

   Our last work day together was Friday. I asked her to write up a report and send it to me by end of day. She didn’t send it until Sunday with a “whoops forgot to email it!” I didn’t see when she left the office that day.

   We work in a field (healthcare, direct patient care) in which personality is extremely important. She is applying for next year’s rotations and I have strong reservations about her, but absolutely no evidence of dishonesty. How would you approach this in a letter?

   1. Do you have to write it? I’d decline. But, in 2022, I feel that people might be actually sick or ill with a lot of things and with patient care, I do not begrudge a person acting cautious.

   2. If she is good at her job and you have no evidence you either write a regular recommendation (if she asked or you are being asked to? Unclear from your post) or you do nothing.

   3. What is your work’s policy on leave, sick or otherwise? I’d start there. If she’s within the policy, then I think you have to let it go. Let’s say she didn’t actually have food poisoning (which, do you need everyone to document it?). There was clearly some reason she needed to leave – whether it’s a health issue or other.

      Turning in a report late is a different issue – if there’s an issue with her work product or her reliability, you can certainly address that in a letter. But you do want to be careful that you are not holding her to a different standard than others just because you have reservations about her.

      1. I totally agree with this. If she was within the policy regarding sick days or PTO, I wouldn’t address that issue at all. My view is that it’s acceptable to take sick days for mental health or because you’re feeling run down and not at your best. But a lot of employers will balk or hold it against you for taking sick days for those reasons. That’s one reason people feel compelled to fib about having food poisoning. Though it is QUITE possible she did have food poisoning and that’s why she felt run down earlier in the day.

         The late report is separate, but maybe think honestly about whether it affected anything and whether you are mostly annoyed because of the other reason. If it did affect workflow or if you hold everyone to the same standard, then reliability and work product are fair game in a reference letter, imo.

   4. Adding in – I told her I would write the letter prior to the day she left work early.

      Today’s update: she called in sick today with the new supervisor, but emailed me to ask a question because she is working on something else from home.

      1. If she’s working from home then she didn’t “call in sick” she’s still working!

         1. Yes! Good grief this workplace sounds awful!

   5. I would not write a letter at all

   6. Can you decline to write the letter? You could tell her, “I’m declining to write you a letter of recommendation because my response would not be favorable to your candidacy.” If it’s internal, and you need to provide documentation, I’d state the circumstances around those incidents as factually as possible.

      1. This.

   7. I would write a regular letter of recommendation. You don’t have to make it glowing but it seems like there are no grounds for you to write anything critical if she’s otherwise done a good job. Not sure about your industry but taking personal or sick days should not be a big deal. The report I guess was a late but it sounds like she still got it to you before you actually needed it? Don’t know the details here but in my line of business I wouldn’t care if someone sent me a report on a Sunday instead of COB Friday.

      1. Some people interpret “COB Friday” to mean “I want to be able to work on it first thing Monday morning.”

   8. Don’t write it.

   9. I’m surprised at the number of people here saying they wouldn’t write a letter of rec. Taking off earned PTO is reasonable and sometimes things are sudden (none of my coworkers know I have IBD and am sometimes late to meetings or backing out at the last minute because of it, but I die before telling them). It seems unfair to punish someone over pure assumptions about people’s health post-lunch or off-time obligations. I also don’t think there is enough info here about the report to make a call one way or the other. Did you assign a same-day due date on a day when she was wrapping up everything because it was her last day (or yours?)? Was it a report of impact? There is a big difference between one oversight by someone overwhelmed with competing and possibly higher priorities vs. missing deadlines regularly in the normal course of work or not delivering on Important Project. Letters of rec are pretty much boilerplate and aren’t really putting yourself out there in any significant way. Is this truly something against her vs. not wanting to do the rec? Or are you concerned it will impact your reputation in some way?

      1. +1. Unless you have significant other concerns about her work beyond the one late report on her last day, I would just write a standard letter of rec and call it a day.

         1. +2. This whole thing seems very micro-managey and petty.

      2. I decline to write a letter as a matter of courtesy- anything other than a strong, detailed letter is typically a mark against a candidate. In my discipline at least, a boilerplate letter would signal a lack of interest in this person’s career and a lack of enthusiasm about their capabilities. Refusing to write a letter when you’d write a bad one is about kindness to the candidate, not about protecting my image.

         1. Yeah, I agree. If you can’t write a good letter, don’t write one at all.

   10. I don’t understand this at all. Assuming she has sick time and is within the policy, I don’t see how you are going to have that reflect poorly on her. People get sick. People get sick in ways that are not apparent to you. They have IBS, they have period cramps, etc. You need to actually look at her performance. Other than one time sending you a report Sunday instead of Friday, how is she doing at her actual job functions.

   11. Why do you think she’s lying? I was waiting for you to say you like saw her at the movies when she claimed to be sick or something like that. But the story never went there. Using more sick time than average doesn’t make someone a liar and I find your attitude about her time off kind of gross.

       1. Right! Sick days are given by employers to be used, and judging someone for actually using them is how we got into the burnout culture that we’re currently in.

       2. This, this, this!

   12. Honestly the most suspicious part of this is that her peers suspect her of fudging excuses. Can you talk to a few more of them and get a feel for whether anything concrete has happened, versus they just don’t like her or something?

       1. I dunno, medicine is really competitive and I wouldn’t put it past her peers to seize an opportunity to make her look bad. Maybe it’s different once you graduate from med school, but I know from friends and family members who are doctors that sabotaging peers is unfortunately something that happens fairly regularly in pre-med and med school.

          1. Actually, I found it to be the opposite. We backed up each other like crazy. I’m in health care.

             What is not acceptable, when you are surrounded by people working so so hard and every one of them would love to take more time off, is to take advantage. Everyone is overworked, understaffed… and patients frustrated by not getting enough time or having to wait. In many jobs in medicine, when you don’t show up, the ripple effect is large and potentially serious.

             And what isn’t tolerated is lying. There is no more serious issue in medicine. People’s health… people’s lives are at stake. If you lie about the small things, it can so easily skyrocket….. “Yes doctor…. I checked the blood pressure…. (well, I did 6 hours ago and not 1 hour ago like you asked…. but I checked it)….”. If I see any hint of dishonesty that is a HUGE red flag. And you almost never see multiple peers saying the same complaint about one person. HUGE red flag.

             OP – I would bow out of writing the rec, and if you are strong enough, tell her your concerns.

             1. I still don’t understand why people think the employee is dishonest. How exactly did she get caught in a lie? Maybe she takes PTO more willingly than other employees and goes home in situations in which others would push through, but that’s a work ethic issue not an integrity issue.

       2. So she said she was not feeling well earlier in the day; went to lunch; and then claimed food poisoning so you are assuming she was not really sick.

          It seems far more likely that she was actually unwell but it was something she did not want to admit to (ranging from period cramps to hangover). I would not hold that against her unless it was a repeated occurrence (and even then it would be worth a conversation about disability beforehand in case she needed accommodation).

          1. It could have been a miscarriage. Not saying it was, just an example of something that she really would not want to talk about but is 100% acceptable to use sick time for.

          2. I also find it really strange that for someone to attest to not feeling well, dread needing to make it through work obligations and contemplate taking a long lunch is somehow evidence that really they were feeling just fine.

             Maybe she felt sick and couldn’t pin it down until, you know, the vomiting began? If she’s lazy and has no work ethic, that’s context that would explain the interpretation some. But if she’s a hard worker on a normal day, then it sounds to me like she felt sick, which is also what she said.

   13. I would decline to write the letter if you can’t honestly recommend her.

   14. You say that you couldn’t write a strong letter and suggest that they find someone else to write it.

   15. This entire situation makes me think your work environment might be bad.
       One of my former jobs had a real buy in seat culture and this who ended up being out more than others (due to normal life incidents-illness, family issues, etc) were vilified to an extent, and definitely talked about by the rest of us. I didn’t fully appreciate it at the time, being in the boiling water, that this was a symptom of a lousy work environment where you were expected to be a productive, present employee over everything else. Also everything at work was a mini to major crises so an absence from the office for any reason seemed worse than it actually was. In retrospect I can’t believe how badly and suspiciously we treated that person and how toxic our work environment was.
       If you agreed to write the letter just do it. You have no evidence to hang this person, so write something that praises the positives of the person and their work and be done. If you can’t do that then tell the person you can’t as soon as possible so they can find someone else.

   16. Is she within the guidelines for PTO? If so, you write her a good recommendation letter. Dishonest is when an employee claims they administered a medicine but didn’t, or says their supervisor told them it was fine to leave when they never asked. It doesn’t make someone dishonest to say they have food poisoning when it was really something else. Working in healthcare, I’m surprised the idea that she had an invisible or stigmatized illness didn’t cross your mind.

       1. Really?

          Lying is lying in my book. Saying you have food poisoning when you are really just tired/don’t want to go to a meeting isn’t dishonest?

          I know this is the era of fake news/Trump, but really….

          1. Some might also say lying is telling someone you’ll write a letter of rec and then inventing reasons not to do it over dishonesty when you literally admit you have no evidence.

          2. No one is obligated to disclose an illness. It can be as simple as “I am really not feeling well and need to go home.” Whether it was actually food poisoning or not is not relevant.

             1. Then that is what you say. Not lie and say you have food poisoning. It is completely relevant in medicine whether you are willing to make “white lies”. Because they reveal something about where you draw your lines. And in medicine there can’t be fudging like that.

                Some day I will tell some of my stories from the hospital on this board. There’s a reason a seasoned doctor told me during my rough training years that working in the ICU taught him fortunately that “it takes a lot to kill someone…”. I had seen so many errors… fudging… laziness… callousness… and was getting disillusioned.

                The person under discussion said she had food poisoning, after making it clear she didn’t want to participate in the afternoon’s activities. And multiple peers reported her, which just doesn’t happen hardly ever in medicince. It’s the combination of the findings and the work context that is the most concerning.

          3. This is absurd. Lying about the nature of an illness (if she was lying at all) is not the same as lying about administering a medication. Not all dishonestly is created equal. If I tell my boss I feel like I am coming down with the flu when I am actually having cramps or cannot stop crying because I broke up with my boyfriend, that does not make me someone who would lie about things that have real impact.

             That kind of black and white thinking is not in line with reality.

          4. Employers shouldn’t ask about peoples personal lives so they have to lie. Most people don’t want to talk to their boss about their IBS or Crohn’s or debilitating menstrual cramps. Under those circumstances,“food poisoning” isn’t a lie it’s a euphemism.

   17. I’m surprised by the number of people saying they would not begrudge this employee her PTO. I would absolutely share your suspicions and I would definitely hold it against her. Given everything she said in the morning, I think it’s very likely she faked the food poisoning. (Not to mention, food poisoning usually takes 3-4 hours to hit). And while I wouldn’t hold it against her if she was actually taking time off because of unspecified feeling poorly, I would hold it against her for lying about it. People say that PTO is there to be taken which is true, but calling out last-minute creates a burden for others, and shouldn’t be abused. Given all this, I’d tell her you are unable write the letter of recommendation.

       1. But when you’re sick isn’t it always last minute? If you’re scheduling sick leave in advance that would be way more suspicious because no one knows they’re going to get food poisoning or the flu or a migraine or whatever. I’m glad I don’t work for you, this is a horrible attitude to have about PTO.

       2. Not all employers will be neutral about someone saying a vague “I’m not feeling well” or “I need a mental health day” or whatever. Some people don’t want to disclose that they have IBS. There was no indication from OP’s post that the sick time impacted anyone else in an unusual way.

          I’d actually argue that the employers who consider this actual dishonesty would overlap with the employers who hold it against people for taking time for reasons that aren’t “good enough.” This is why people claim to have food poisoning or similar when they need to use a sick day.

       3. As a counterpoint to the 3-4 hours, I started feeling poorly on a Wednesday, started barfing Saturday, ended up hospitalized Sunday due to bacterial food poisoning. Depending on the bug, it can take a while to kick in.

          1. I once started feeling poorly about a day and a half after eating food that led to poisoning. I went from feeling nauseated to throwing up within a couple of hours. I wouldn’t have known it was food poisoning except that others I had lunch with the day before had experienced the same (one was earlier than me and one was later).

             I think that frankly it is gross to even be questioning someone’s health this way though. I am a colon cancer survivor and have diarrhea about four times a day now. It’s why I took a remote position where I’m earning about 30 percent less than I used to solely because I want to be near my own bathroom. In my 20s, I would only have to use the washroom every few days and had far more control. No one understands what it is like to be in someone else’s body. It’s just that simple. And whether it was true food poisoning or a stomach bug or anixety-induced diarrhea shouldn’t be anyone else’s business or cause to be discussing it with colleagues.

             1. I do get that lying about patient care can be really bad in a hospital setting. But I also know fact that doubting people’s reported symptoms can also be really, really bad in a hospital setting. I really don’t think hospitals even know how many people they send away because they’re suspicious of them who end up being really ill but having to go elsewhere out of fear of being disbelieved again.

       4. I don’t understand the comment about “food poisoning usually takes 3-4 hours to hit.” People are eating basically around the clock. If the food poisoning hit at lunchtime it could be from breakfast or the night before or whatever. I didn’t interpret it as her saying whatever she ate for lunch caused the food poisoning.

       5. I find it weird that anyone needs to know the details of why someone wants PTO. Do you try to judge whether their reason is good enough for you? That seems toxic.

          1. THIS.

   18. I have pretty much zero tolerance for people lying to me so this would bother me a lot. But also, I think it’s very odd that you confronted her about going home sick. She should have just said she wasn’t feeling well instead of claiming food poisoning, but “investigating” her absence is very odd.

       1. First of all, there’s no evidence that she lied based on the details OP has given.

          But also, if she did, she probably didn’t feel comfortable saying “I’m not feeling well” knowing that her employer would further ask her about the reasons for the absence.

       2. I wondered if the healthcare setting means they have to know about potential contagion.

          1. Yes, that is true.

   19. I lied about why I was leaving work early when I was going through infertility and pregnancy loss. I was scattered and irresponsible.

       Talk to her honestly. Proceed accordingly. But there are plenty of explanations that are both temporary and excusable.

   20. Say your company does not allow references..it’s a legal issue.

       1. Please don’t do this unless it’s true. She might need a different person within your company to write a reference, and you don’t want her thinking she can’t ask someone else.

          Also, if OP’s issue is that the employee was potentially dishonest, she then combats that with… dishonesty???

          1. +1 the 1:56 poster has terrible advice.

7. Recs for mens running tights/leggings? DH wants to bet into running and we live in the frigid north. I know nothing about running.

   He’s 6’0 and has big thighs and a butt from years of weight lifting and soccer plus about 15lbs of Dad Weight. So….the opposite of a runner’s build and could never wear hipster style jeans :).

   I’m assuming tights are fairly forgiving in the leg but don’t want anything that would be uncomfortable.

   Brands? Materials? Sizes? I’m assuming maybe a large but would he need to size up for thigh room?

   1. Idk but he sounds hot

   2. This seems like a ball to drop/pass back to your husband. Why are you using your time researching apparel for him for his new hobby?

      1. I assumed she was asking bc she wants to get him tights for a Christmas gift :)

      2. tbh my husband will sometimes say “can you ask corpor-tt-” bc there’s not an equivalent think tank that he knows about, lol. Or maybe the OP wants to come up with a good gift. Or maybe she just wants to do her husband a favor out of love?

         1. Exactly.

         2. +1

      3. Idk maybe she likes her husband and wants to do something nice for him?

      4. Duh- should have said I want to do it as a Christmas gift. :) otherwise, yes, totally his problem.

      5. Because Christmas is coming?

      6. Ugh the “why are you doing XYZ task for your husband? He should be doing it!” is so exhausting. Even if it weren’t a Christmas gift, you can have a very equal division of labor without dividing every task 50-50. I own a lot of the computer-based tasks like clothes shopping and my husband does more of the stuff like cooking and cleaning. I might buy his running leggings but he’s cooking dinner every night. I think it’s a pretty good deal for me.

         1. Exactly. I completely appreciate that we’re finally having more conversations about division of labor and emotional labor, but sometimes it gets really exhausting when people automatically jump to “dumb husband!”

   3. If you are getting a present, I would go to Fleet Feet or a similar store and ask the sales people. They may have a lot of suggestions for things you van buy on the website that are not in the store.

      If he does not like them, he can return them for another brand that does work – not an option if you buy directly from Brooks or Rabbit or whomever.

   4. My similarly shaped husband has been pleased with the running tights he got from Peloton, with the caveat that he learned the hard way he needs to wear underwear – there was some unfortunate chafing.

   5. My DH has had pretty good luck with the winter Nike running tights – I haven’t looked this year at exact models but they usually have some offerings with wind resistant front panels (a must for cold climates). Another option he’s been living in this winter is the REI Swiftland pant/tights. The price point is pretty dang good for the quality with the REI items and their return policy is great.

   6. https://www.nytimes.com/wirecutter/blog/cold-weather-running-gear/

      He should probably just go try to try some on in a store. Running clothes generally run a little small, so you might start one size up from his street clothes or at least look carefully at a size chart. Every brand is different. Fleece tights and those that have a windblocking panel actually aren’t THAT stretchy. To begin with, he might be happy wearing sport/wicking long underwear bottoms under a pair of shorts or, on colder/below freezing days, thin sweat pants. You get pretty warm pretty fast. I think a lot of people never wear 2 layers on the bottom and just focus on keeping their torso and extremities warm, but my legs get cold.

      1. I learned the hard way that wirecutter does not have good recommendations for specialized sports (though water sports for me).

   7. Costco has Eddie Bauer running pants that DH likes and he trail runs at least 50 Km a week.

      Running pants from Nike are good too. Not fleece joggers and you don’t need tights/leggings.

   8. My runner husband loves wool running tights. I think Icebreaker. Also agree with the rec to buy something from Fleet Feet as they are super helpful and if it doesn’t work out your husband can exchange it.

   9. I find Uber Armour cold gear amazing. I have rubbing tights from there and they’re warm and soft and comfy and flattering. So he might look there too. My brother is an a triathlon guy and half his closet is UnderArmour so I suspect their running gear for men is pretty great.

8. This is a kid question, but for adults not moms :).

   How much did being a competitive high school athlete matter to you fir your college/life?

   I have a kid who is athletic but not really great or passionate about a particular sport. She likes being active but doesn’t necessarily want to go all in on sports in high school the way one needs to in our area to be on, say, the varsity basketball or soccer team.

   I was not interested in athletics in the slightest and did other stuff in high school and it was just fine. I assume this is still true?

   I guess I’m asking because when I went to college, almost *everyone* I met played some kind of sport in high school. I’m trying to figure out if I should steer her to something less competitive like track (eg. no cuts) or encourage her to stay active but not necessarily though in school sports.

   I also think socially it might be important as a lot of her friends are sporty kids- would she feel left out if everyone has practices and games/meets?

   Thanks for thoughts and any recent experience (either yourself or your teens).

   1. personally? 0% – I was into music and theater and had plenty of friends and acquaintances from those circles.

      1. Me, too, but that was almost 50 years ago so not sure my experience is relevant at this point.

      2. Haha I was in a competitive marching band – we competed at a state wide and national/regional level, and we won more championships than any of my high school’s sports teams won. We all worked our asses off to make it happen, and I was part of the cohort that turned the band around.

         I would say I was extremely competitive, but that story didn’t play well anywhere outside of my high school!

         1. That’s awesome!!

         2. Aw, I love this. I was on the academic team/quiz bowl and we had a much better record than the football team!

         3. Another former band kid here! Our high school marching band won the state championship every year. Our football team was terrible. We used to joke that football was invented to entertain the audience while they were waiting for the field show. I went on to major in music but did not do marching band in college because college marching band was not serious enough for me–it was just about the football.

      3. Anecdotally, the music and theater nerds at my high school seemed to have stronger social networks than the athletes.
         I was neither so that’s just my outsider’s opinion and I’m not exactly sure why? Maybe because there can be a lot of drama on a sports team of 10-20 people but when you have a group of 100+ kids doing something there’s more opportunity to distance yourself from someone causing drama? I dunno. But that was definitely my impression.

      4. Yea I didn’t care at all about sports. I took dance class and enjoyed it but did not enjoy the other girls in my class. In my high school, sports were not important. There’s always other activities she can join.

   2. I was not an athlete in the slightest. It mattered zero percent. But I’m Canadian and college sports are not the huge thing here that they are in the US. I was in choir, orchestra and band in high school.

   3. I was a very good high school cross-country runner, although not good enough to be recruited for D1. I loved being on the team and it was important for my social life although I also did theater and student government and it wasn’t my only thing. I do think that it’s important for kids to do some athletic activity for their health and physical confidence, although that doesn’t need to be competitive. I didn’t run in college but my sense of myself as an athlete and my confidence in my physical abilities have been good for me in adult life. I took up another sport as an adult and almost went pro in that, and I’ve maintained a really active life even after finally leaving competitive sports behind.

   4. I was a mediocre JV soccer player and a slow swimmer. I enjoyed being a part of a team, but any benefit was probably (1) schedule management, (2) social, (3) being active – and I don’t think a more competitive sport would change any of those for your kid.
      My kids are younger, but our approach has been “DO SOMETHING” – whether it’s sport, theater, music, etc., I think it’s important for kids to find something they enjoy outside of school and do it.

   5. I was a varsity athlete in high school but it was not an important part of my identity. I did it to stay in shape, to avoid going home after school, to prove to myself that I was athletic, and to rebel against my anti-sports parents. What gave me great joy and a sense of purpose and belonging throughout high school and college was music. I didn’t even make the county championships in my sport, but I was second chair in the all-state orchestra. I’d encourage your daughter to pursue some sort of genuine passion at a very high level, and to pick some non-competitive form of exercise to do for fun and fitness. Rock climbing, yoga, group fitness classes, martial arts, and teen/adult beginner dance classes are all good options. Or if she wants to do a varsity sport but not make it her entire life, let her do that if she’s good enough.

   6. I swam on my HS team but did nothing else and was not good enough to swim in college. It had zero effect on my college experience.

      That said, I rode horses in HS but not for my HS and I rode in college too. The team helped me form my closest college friends (although we didn’t stay in touch).

   7. I feel like many kids have a thing, be it sports or an instrument or theater. I feel bad that in some areas, you can’t do a sport unless you devote your whole life to it (vs being a mediocre 3-sport athlete, which was me, but I still play tennis when I can get a game in) or doing a lifetime sport where you don’t need a team to do it. Anywho, my kids are in middle school and one runs track and one does no sports but hikes and is in the orchestra. If they are not fine, I blame the pandemic (still) for how disruptive it was to their lives.

      I do want them to be active adults b/c I believe what I read in how it is good for mental health.

   8. My sisters and I are a great sample for this!

      Me – not remotely competitive in school sports, did them anyway, did not extend myself to club sport participation (though that was only beginning to become a thing where I lived at the time). For college it made zero difference for me; my friends and interests all sprung up elsewhere. I have had some post-college fun with adult intramural-type teams for fun.

      One sister – competitive in sports! Put lots of energy and time into one in particular but remained well-rounded. Joined the club team for her particular sport since it became available around that time (and she liked the coach better than the regular HS coach as well). Considered pursuing a couple years on a community college team (another reason to spend time on the club team), but eventually decided not to. Zero influence on her college years or social life therein.

      Other sister – super competitive in one sport and one sport only. Has done it year-round constantly since the age of 9, including both HS and club teams. Chose her college based on the ability to be on the team for this sport and obtain a partial scholarship. COVID interrupted her college years to some extent, but she’s still had a successful career and is eying breaking a school record before she graduates next spring. Her friends are almost exclusively other team members and she hasn’t really joined anything else (though she is academically well-rounded and has taken some really interesting courses). I do worry about what will fill the void in her life when she graduates (her sport requires some super specific/expensive equipment so I don’t know if she’ll continue to pursue it when she’s in grad school/on her own).

      1. *sprang, not sprung, oops.

   9. I was a competitive swimmer starting at age 8 and it was my entire life and identity until my junior year of college when I had to stop because of an injury. I loved it and wouldn’t go back and change anything. I am glad I had two years of college to *not* be a swimmer and to have time to get work study jobs. My teammates were always good friends, but my best friends in high school happened to be runners who weren’t as competitive in their sport as I was with swimming (ie didn’t do any sports in college).

   10. 0% because I am not athletic. I loved theater, choir, newspaper, etc. I had a great social life in high school and college. Still friends with many of the same people all these years later!

   11. Very little. I was a serious competitive figure skater and while it was a fun hobby I feel like my life would have also been fine with other it. The biggest thing I would say it gave me was a network of friends outside school so I had some other girls to hang out with when school friends were being crappy. But you can get that from any extracurricular like Girl Scouts, music, theater, religion etc. It’s not specific to sports.

       I went to a nerdy tech school but I’d say at least half the people I knew in college didn’t play a sport. Maybe more than half? I would not push a kid into a sport that she’s not expressing interest in.

       1. Wait are you me? I was a competitive figure skater and I also went to a magnet science and tech high school. Although I skated on a club team in college and loved it. All my roommates always asked “are you a skating friend or a chemical engineering friend…?”

   12. I think you’re lucky that your kid has found something (athletics) they like that is 1. Positive 2. Allows them to make and maintain friends. I was not athletic AT ALL in high school, but did many school-related activities that gave me the same benefits, but never became super-dedicated to one in particular. I turned out fine. I think in this case, support her doing what she enjoys doing. It seems that your main concern is her getting too committed to a sport that will take over her life, maybe? It’s possible you’re overthinking this a little bit. If you find that an activity she is doing is having negative effects on her, requiring too much time/money/effort, etc., I think you can address these issues as they come up. Dissuading her from doing (positive) activities she wants to do or trying to steer her towards something in particular doesn’t seem to be the best way to address this. She’s at an age where she’ll appreciate autonomy in her life choices and your encouragement in areas she enjoys!

   13. It was one of the best things I did! I definitely wasn’t a super amazing athlete and I didn’t continue in college, but I played three sports a year, of the track/cross country variety. Academics always came so easily for me, so it was really good for me to have something where I really had to work to improve. It’s important to be bad at things and learn to lose! I also loved being outside every day and developing confidence in my body for what it could do, not how it looked. There’s nothing like running 10 miles and still feeling good and strong as an ego boost for a 16 year old girl. I don’t think that has to come from competitive sports vs. being active on your own, but I also really loved being part of a team, and I received a huge amount of support from my teammates and learned to provide that support and leadership as a team captain. Again, that can come from other things, like the theater or other clubs, but if she’s already inclined toward sports, I don’t think you need to discourage her from pursuing them. A lot of it comes down to finding the right mix of people at her own school, though, so I’d suggest she pursue the activities where she likes the people, which can matter almost as much as the activity.

   14. I was an athlete in high school in a noncompetitive sport–no cuts, our team finished in the middle in our competitions and would have been terrible against elite athletes in the sport. It was important to me for the friend group, for staying generally active, and maybe for appearing well-rounded on college applications. There was never a question that I’d be a college athlete, but I participated in the club level of the sport in college and similarly made friends and stayed generally active.

       I think you need to trust your teenager to find her way. Of course it will be just fine if she is not a high school athlete and does other stuff. My impression is that college admissions are looking for kids who demonstrate commitment and hard work, maybe teamwork, passion, and a little talent. It’s easy enough to recognize those characteristics in an athlete, but there’s no reason that drama, music, debate, academic clubs, etc. can’t provide those opportunities. Also, there’s no way to fake passion or talent for an activity, so steering her toward a sport she’s not interested in may just prevent her from going deep into an activity she’d love. Also, if she feels left out when her friends are doing sports, that’s a valid feeling, but it’s normal and healthy for high school friends to have different interests and activities, and to have different friends from their extracurriculars.

   15. So your kid sounds like I was. I was decent-ish at sports, enough to make varsity as a sophomore but not good enough to play in college. I knew this. I liked sports but I didn’t like the time commitment. I quit after my sophomore year and it was honestly the best decision I made. It freed up my time to spend on the increase in homework for AP classes as a junior/senior, participate in speech and debate (which I really loved, and HIGHLY recommend as I think even to this day that activity was some of the most useful skill building I did) and have a social life. I remember getting a ton of pushback from coaches, friends, etc. about giving up sports but honestly it was the very best decision. I am a very driven, type A person and honestly I am really proud of myself for knowing that I couldn’t do all of the things and something had to give. And to this day I’m happy that I chose sports to be the thing that gave. I remained friends with my sporty friends and stayed active in activities I enjoyed without the huge time commitment of high school varsity sports.

   16. I swam the first 2 years of high school but wasnt on a swim team the other 2 years. Swimming is really my go-to exercise, life long hobby, good influence on my life. My mom is very happy that I’ve kept this childhood activity up. But it didn’t play a role in my social life really.

   17. My daughter was in a high school sport and a club for the same sport. In night school she was varsity captain for two years. She had a GPA right around 4 when adjusted for APs.

       My son played zero sports and had almost no extracurriculars but had a very good GPA, well over 4 but I can’t remember the exact number.

       My son got acceptances for “better” colleges and universities than she did, so his lack of sports doesn’t seem to have had any impact.

       They’re a senior and a sophomore right now, and I’m completely convinced that they both found the right colleges for themselves.

   18. This will probably give me away but oh well. I played a high school varsity sport that was actively bad for my mental health (really terrible coach) but was probably also was critical for getting me into my HYP college, as it made me more “well rounded” balancing out my other artistic extracurriculars and academic pursuits. As a freshman in college, I walked onto a D1 athletics team for a different sport that I did not play in high school. That experience was phenomenal! Both for giving me an outlet during an incredibly stressful transition / boosting my mental health and for setting me up for a more active adult life. If I hadn’t been in shape from the bad high school experience, my great college experience would never have been an option. The college team has also benefitted my career.

       1. I take it you rowed in college?

   19. Late responding. I did your classic WASP non-high school sponsored (figure skating, dressage, ballet) activities. Husband did your classic team high school athletics. Twenty plus years on, I would say that among my friends that were athletic outside of school, most of us have stayed athletic as adults and have transitioned to other type A activities (running, biking, etc.). Husband and other other friends that did team high school athletics had a hard time sticking with being athletic as adults, without the structure of team sports. Unfortunately, unless it is hockey, finding team sports as an adult is a challenge. So, I’d vote for encourage her to find whatever activity she is interested in – whether it is a team sport or not.

       1. Unless it is hockey? Is there not adult soccer where you live? I know a ton of people (mostly but not exclusively men) who still play soccer and we’re all in our 40s.

          1. Yeah hockey would be pretty far down on my list of sports that adults play? And I’m in the upper Midwest! I know adult men who play soccer, tennis, raquetball, basketball, squash, golf, frisbee, etc. recreationally. I’d put all those above hockey in terms of how easy it is to do as an adult.

   20. I think high school sports are most important for building leadership and social skills. Being on a team, even if in an individual sport like track or swimming, teaches kids to support each other, lead each other, and get along with people who they may not otherwise interact in school because of the way kids are tracked in academics. I don’t think art programs like chorus and drama are the same, though they are certainly valuable in other ways. However, a lot of this is irrelevant if you live in a homogeneous UMC/wealthy suburb or send your kids to private school.

   21. I was (and am) horribly uncoordinated and was not into sports at all. This mattered 0% to my college/life – I picked up good fitness habits as thankfully my high school had a LOT of ‘gym’ classes and I happily took stuff like weight training, step aerobics, yoga, and sports medicine (basically pre-EMT training, which was awesome!). My public high school had SO many cliques and sports were a thing but not hugely so? I hung out mostly with the ‘smart’ (AP/honors) kids – at that level a lot of us were taking 3-5 APs in Junior/Senior year and/or working afterschool. Travel sports simply wasn’t a ‘thing’ in my area (or in the early 90s the way it is now. I can just imagine my parents laughing in my face if I asked them to drive me to some sports tournament every weekend, they barely drove us to hang out with friends a few towns over.
       I know with my own kid that simply isn’t the case any longer and we don’t hang out much with the ‘sports’ kids because they’re gone on the weekends/after school. If this is upsetting your kid maybe just focus on helping him find a rec league, or another activity that’s less high pressure?

   22. I was mediocre at best at 2 sports and quite good at a third when I was in high school, and played the third sport in college for 3 years.

       I still have 3 friends from high school – 2 were from my sport and 1 was not at all an athlete. I was friends with my 2 teammates before we were teammates but no doubt we became closer because we were teammates. And, back in high school we were quite close with the rest of our team. For the 2 other sports I played, I didn’t really have friends on the team. I played the one sport because I LOVED it (and still play club as an adult) and then ran track to stay fit.

       In high school I was also involved in the school newspaper, debate, mock trial and a few other clubs. I had a lot of friends on the paper and mock trial and those were some of my favorite activities I did.

       In college I played a sport, was in a sorority, and had a work study job. My closest college friends included a few teammates (was friendly but not tight with the rest of the girls’ team and the boys’ team), a group of maybe 8-10 friends from my freshman hall ahd the boys’ hall below us, 2 friends from my study abroad and then several friends from my sorority (and guys in a few fraternities that I met through being in a sorority).

       To this day, I’m closest with my maybe 12-15 of my sorority/fraternity friends, 2 freshman hall friends and 1 study abroad friend, but I do have 3 former teammates I talk to weekly.

       So – sports are great. I loved being an athlete and playing and being on a team but many of my closest friends are not my teammates.

       Overall I think it’s SO important for kids to have something, but that thing doesn’t have to be sports.

       If she likes playing sports but doesn’t want to be all in committed, I had a bunch of friends play CYO basketball or the local town’s rec league for fun as high schoolers. All of the kids who actually play basketball play for high school and club teams so CYO was still pretty competitive but not intense. I think that’s a great compromise for her.

   23. It will be fine if she isnt into sports, but it seems like she is, so why not just follow her lead. Playing a sport in HS is very useful in terms of developing friendships, managing time, learning about fitness, etc. I think playing on a no-cut sport seems ideal.

       1. OP here- I think the issue is that she’s 13, will go to HS next year, and either needs to really focus on one sport to make the team in high school or quit that sport entirely and focus on sports where the teams don’t have cuts.

          In our area, she might make the freshman team but that’s about it. She’s waffling with what to do because she doesn’t really want to do club or spend summers at clinics but also knows she won’t make the team without it.

          I think another piece is she’s very strong academically and doesn’t see some of her friend anymore in school because she’s in all honors/accelerated classes and some of her sports team friends are not. Losing the sport may mean she doesn’t see them anymore. That’s part of life but I was curious as a non sporty person myself what others thought.

          1. Why does she need to do a sport at all? She needs some kind of extracurricular but it doesn’t have to be a sport.

          2. At that age it’s likely that she’d start to drift away from the sports friends anyway. In my daughter’s high school the cliques tend to be stratified academically. The activity-based groups tend to be mostly standard-track kids. The advanced kids are friendly with the kids from their activities but have their own close-knit core groups. Activity participation also tends to be correlated with academic track, often at least partly for scheduling reasons.

   24. I think it’s important to have one or two interests, but they don’t have to be sports. I played HS and D3 college sports on no-cut teams. I was never the best but it was really nice having that built-in friend group/shared interest.

   25. I was a decent but not great swimmer, good enough that my application to a D1 school with lousy sports teams probably got an extra look. I quit because of the time commitment and swam laps and in intramural meets, and it’s become my life sport. IME sports kids run the gamut but there are many worse ways to spend time in HS. A good coach can be an important adult in a teen’s life. (A bad one can be the source of many lessons, too, as I discovered.)

9. Suggestions for a choose your own adventure type book for 1st/2nd graders? There are so many options and I trust your opinions over some of those anonymous reviewers!

   1. Sorry, not a rec for books, but I do recommend the recent New Yorker article about the origin of these. It was a very interesting read!

10. Script recommendations for responding to racist, sexist, homophobic comments?

    Inspired by the post yesterday about the racist in-laws being offended, from time to time I find myself in situations where someone makes a comment like FIL from yesterday did and I am sort of shocked into silence. And then I hate myself afterwards for not saying something. I would really love some short/simple scripts to have on hand to put speakers in these situations on notice that their comments are not ok but also not dwell on it/come across as preachy

    I have sometimes utilized false surprise “what an odd thing to say” or “can you explain to me what you mean” in situations where a comment is less directly sexist or racist or homophobic but I’d love to have some other go to responses for when these situations arise.

    1. “Wow I disagree”. “That’s a very racist thing to say.”

    2. I don’t know if this will be a popular response or not, but it completely depends on the audience and exact circumstances of the comment. In the context of my in-laws, I say nothing. I will not change them. There will be no productive dialogue. I see them so few days a year that I just sit on my hands, smile and do not validate and do not engage. If it’s my sister or a friend that “let’s something slip” I would definitely engage, but again i think it’s totally situational as to what the specific script and my tone will be. If it’s a professional setting, maybe a colleague I don’t love who I’ve got nothing to lose by challenging, I’ll offer a neutral “why do you say that?” open ended type question.

       1. I agree with this. Also, ime, most objectionable comments aren’t as clear as the ones in yesterday’s post. If someone says something clearly awful, that deserves one response. But usually people say sort of awful things and it’s tough to know where to draw the line. If I pointedly said, what do you mean by that, every time, i.e., grandma comments on my teenage niece’s body or attire, I’d spend the entire holiday being The Difficult One – which I already kind of am – and frankly I’m just not up for it. I will happily tell my niece how lovely she looks and give her 10 compliments for every 1 side eye, but I’m not going to battle older family members that crop tops on 18 year olds are not in fact a sign of the coming apocalypse.

    3. My dad has sadly become more conservative and says inappropriate stuff like this sometimes (it makes me sad because that’s not how he was when I was young but somehow aging made him bitter). He’s still my dad so I can’t constantly fight with him but I just say « I don’t agree » or « wow, that’s really racist/ *****phobic/inapropriate ». He doesn’t really respond but it shuts it down and he moves on to another topic. It’s not perfect though so I’m following for suggestions, especially since we now have a kid and I don’t want her hearing stuff like that.

       1. This is a good point – after too many conversations that included casual racism from my dad I started shutting it down vigorously and often when my kid was around (‘we don’t agree with that, please don’t use that language around us, we don’t say ‘word’ in this house, etc.). Also what is it with thinking it isn’t racist if they use the offensive word in another language?!? It’s still not ok and then I get my kid asking what does ‘x word mean?’.
          We’re the black sheep of the family anyway so I really don’t care if they get more huffy/annoyed/talk about how we’re too liberal/woke/etc.

       2. Ugh, when I try that response with my dad he just doubles down. I think he only says it to push my buttons anyway. If I had kids, I might rethink my current response, which is just to ignore him.

    4. I’ve gone with, “It’s 2022, you can’t really say stuff like that.” Yes, it was never okay, but this framing kind of gives them the “out” of being old/out of touch rather than just bigoted and awful, while still calling it out. And it refers to more of an objective social standard, rather than you personally being offended.

    5. What about a simple ‘wow, I don’t agree’ or ‘I find that offensive’ if you want to be more direct? Otherwise I agree ‘what an odd thing to chose to say’ or ‘explain it to me’ are the most low-key defensible reactions.

    6. For me, this depends on the person who’s speaking. If it’s someone I think will actually change or is interested in changing, I’ve said something like, “I don’t think people use that word (or phrase or whatever) anymore.” It will give the person who said it an opportunity to save a little face by saying they didn’t realize it had changed and I’ve had people ask follow up questions about why and have observed that they don’t use whatever word or stereotype around me anymore. This is reserved for people who are using words or phrases that are not so clearly heinous and for people who I do think are interested in improvement.

       For people who use the n-word or other really horrific language, I’ll say, “Wow, I don’t agree at all.” That will usually get them at least to stop saying it in my presence, though unfortunately it doesn’t always work and has actually backfired and ended up with someone using the word MORE. At which point I leave and limit contact.

       1. I agree with your first paragraph with regards to words that used to be acceptable/neutral but no longer are, including words like “lame.” I hope in the future someone tells me when I’m using language that is hurtful — I never saw words like “lame” as ableist in the decades I used it and I’m sure I’m inadvertently making similar mistakes now.

    7. “Wow, that is a really offensive thing to say.” And then move away or turn away from the speaker.

    8. Something like the situation of the poster yesterday, I would say “I’m glad that Blacks are being featured in romantic films… the marriage crisis is real and helping people to aspire to marriage is great.” There are Reasons for this – conservatives usually believe that marriage is a good goal for people to have and destruction of the nuclear family causes all sorts of social ills. (Not here to argue nuances; here to explain.)

       Otherwise, I think the key to challenging people on their garbage is to be very understated about it. Tone matters – light and breezy comes across as passive aggressive; serious, even, and quiet comes across better.

       1. Wut

          1. Oh Liza, you struggle a lot, don’t you?

       2. What is the marriage crisis?

          1. 40% of kids are born out of wedlock, some 50% of first borns are born out of wedlock, about 30% of Black adults are currently married, huge numbers of middle aged people who want to be married are not, etc etc.

             Marriage matters for stability, building wealth, and, for many people, long term happiness. (NOT throwing shade at singles here!) Having kids in wedlock matters a lot for their well being, escaping poverty, avoiding teenage pregnancy themselves, etc. Obviously you’re better off single than with a toxic abuser. Obviously trends are not laws of physics that apply to every one – there are emotionally healthy children of single teenage moms and screwed up children of wealthy married parents.

             But if “smart” women on this board do not understand why declining marriage rates are seen as a problem, there is a problem and it rests with the “smart” women on this board.

             1. Rather than chastising people for not getting married, a social institution the purpose of which has considerably evolved over the years, let’s rather create better legal and practical structures in our society to support people who become parents and their children, regardless of marriage or cohabitation, and support single people to live without needing to marry to ‘escape poverty’.

             2. Ice cream sales are highly correlated to drowning fatalities. And anyone who has taken statistics knows it’s not because ice cream causes drowning it’s because they are both highly correlated with hot weather.

                You are suggesting that marriage matters for stability, wealth building and long term happiness without any evidence. I assume you are referring to studies on the correlation of these things. But as a smart woman I know that correlation does not equal causation.

                Many of the children born out of wedlock today are very much wanted/on purpose kids born to adults, often in their 30s. Many of the statistics on children born out of wedlock are from a time where the only children born out of wedlock were teenagers or women without reproductive choices (either legally or practically). That sample set is wildly different than the children born out of wedlock in 2022.

                There’s a lot of statistics about marriage being helpful to happiness but if you dig into the research you’ll see it’s really about relationships/not being lonely and that there are many relationships that aren’t spousal that produce the same happiness benefits.

                Sure there are some tax benefits and expense savings that can come (but not always) with marriage, but there are also a lot of other paths for women to build wealth in 2022.

                I value my marriage and think marriage is a wonderful thing. But that’s because I love my spouse and we have a wonderful and supportive relationship. There’s nothing magical about marriage that makes it that way, other than our mutual commitment to each other. But again that isn’t guaranteed in marriage and it also isn’t something that can only be found in marriage. Marriage for the sake of marriage isn’t something that should be valued or strived for in my opinion.

             3. Stability and wealth matters for marriage. Maybe start there?

    9. My MIL is horrible. Every “ist” you can think of and then some. I like to respond to her statements with a question. We will never change her mind but a question trips her up and signals that we don’t share her opinion. Her “I don’t have free speech. I can’t yell [n word].” Me: “why would you want to?”
       She doesn’t have an answer and it usually blows some of the wind out of her sails

       1. Ah yes, “free speech” AKA I want to run my mouth about my sh!tty views, but don’t you dare challenge me on them.

       2. Love that response.

       3. I do this to my mom sometimes. Another thing that has improved her behavior a lot is asking her not to share some of her more racist opinions because my kids have friends that are members of her least-favorite racial groups. Saying, “Mom, I know you don’t like Latino people, but Kid2’s BFF in orchestra is from Mexico so can you please knock it off?”

    10. My reply is in mod but I like to answer with a question. Trips them up because they’ll never have an answer. “Why do you say that?” “Why do you think that?”
        IME if I tell my MIL something is offensive she just goes on another rant about how everyone is offended by everything these days

    11. I sometimes say ‘oh that’s not what I’m used to hearing people say’; my parents are fully aware they live in a much more conservative milieu than I do (in a U.K. context – they live in deepest Tory Home Counties and I live in a city in Scotland) and they are open to being called out on unintentionally hurtful things they say.

        1. I like this phrasing!

    12. I’ve found that raised eyebrows and a “woah!” work pretty well. Not that it will stop the racist person from being racist, but then they stop saying that stuff around me (or avoid me altogether, which is fine!).

    13. I go with “Wow, not cool.” or “Whoa, easy now” in an “I’m not joking around” voice, along with a very stern look. (Honestly, no different than if I interrupted my dog doing something she’s not supposed to). I’m not making explanations, and the behavior needs to stop right. now.

    14. “What did you just say? I can’t have heard you right.”

        Making them repeat it often makes them back down.

        If they dig in and double down, use some of the other suggestions here.

        1. I thought of a conversation I had with a particular relative who lives in a rural area and had something to say about POC. I asked “how many do you know?” And he had to admit he didn’t know any. Then I asked where he was getting his information about them.

    15. There’s always the gentle gaslighting tack: “Oh, I know you wouldn’t want to offend anyone, so you should know that X statement is considered racist”

        1. This is super condescending. I know I would hate being on the receiving end of it, and I am very interested in not being racist. Many better ways to frame this.

    16. Your bigots might be different than my bigots but I find once people know I’m a liberal democrat who doesn’t mind when outspoken bigots face consequences they’e terrified to talk to me like this. I’m also in the north east so maybe our bigots have learned to keep their garbage a little more subtle but you’d be surprised how many people see me as potentially sympathetic to this. I often joke to my husband that “I’m a good person, I just wear preppy clothes.”

    17. “Okay, I think that’s a good place for us to end this conversation.”

    18. A neighbor was ranting about George Soros once, and I said “Whenever I hear that kind of thing about Mr. Soros, I think it’s anti-Semitic.” He said “Huh?” I repeated it. He said, “Well, I don’t know about that… and never brought it up again.

11. Anyone else having trouble with the title 9 website? I get almost all the way through the checkout process but at the final step where I click “place order” it just stalls out and doesn’t do anything. The button changes color for a second but the site never moves to the next page “thank you for your order” and the order is not going through.

12. Philly ‘rettes – any good florist recommendations? Want to send a friend a celebratory bouquet!

    1. Robertson’s always does a lovely job – pricey but beautiful.

    2. If you’re local, I really love the Amish flower stand at the Rittenhouse farmers market on Saturdays.

    3. Vault + Vine!

13. So I have had the unfortunate incidence of getting into two (minor, at fault) car accidents in the last two months. I will preface this by saying that never in the last 20 years of driving had I gotten into a car accident, and just due to stupid inattention got into a parking lot accident while I was backing out and then I rear ended someone in high traffic on the highway. I am freaking out because I feel like I can’t trust myself anymore to drive carefully, and because of what this will do to my insurance rates. Help? Anyone had been in a similar situation? How do I stop this from happening again? And what should I expect with my insurance next year (I have even heard of people getting dropped from too many accidents…)

    1. Do you have something on your mind (work, relationship, financial) that’s causing you to be inattentive? If so, you need to address that. In terms of insurance, two minor accidents won’t cause you to get dropped (in my experience) but your premiums could rise significantly depending on the damages paid out by your company.

       1. Thanks; that’s a good point, both times was related to very high stress (screaming kid in back, work stress) so need to address that.

          The damaged were relatively minor (less than 5k combined) – didn’t know that helps with rates.

          1. I would never submit a claim that small to insurance. As the other driver(s) if you can pay them directly for the damage to their cars. It might cost a little more (because you will not get insurance rates) but you will make it up in your rates.

             If it has already been reported then yes – your rates are going up. They are not likely to drop you over minor fender benders but if they do there are plenty of carriers who will write drivers with that record (State Farm comes immediately to mind but I am sure there are others).

             1. +1 I don’t think I’ve ever submitted a car accident to insurance. Unless the car is totaled or someone is injured, it’s almost always better to pay out of pocket.

             2. As the other driver I would never, ever agree to this, and I would report the accident to my own insurance company just to get it on the record that it was not my fault in case the other driver tried to pull some nonsense later on.

    2. You can still trust yourself.
       This isn’t a moral failing.
       I’ve done the same thing – inattention.
       I’d address whatever is in your control regarding the inattention, if you can.
       Far from being not trustworthy to drive, I bet you’re a safer driver than you were 6 months ago, because I’m guessing you’re paying EXTRA attention. After my inattentive parking lot accident (car behind me and I were both backing out at the same time, didn’t see each other, and backed into each other) I park differently, look differently, etc. After my heavy-traffic rear-ending, I leave more distance, watch brake lights way ahead, and pay extra attention.

    3. So this happened to me as a young adult (early 20s) driving in SoCal (which, in my defense, is a pretty tough place to be driving as a young person). I’m not sure how old you are, but my insurance rates did unfortunately go up considerably in the short term, so I would prepare yourself for that. The part about trusting yourself is harder. I would just say double down on how attentive and careful you are when driving, at all times, but especially when doing something that is slightly riskier (lane changes, backing out, merging onto the freeway). Other drivers are probably sometimes annoyed with how cautious I am, but oh well. It goes without saying to keep your phone out of your line of sight and silenced at all times. If it makes you feel better – I’m now in my early 40s and haven’t been in an accident in more than ten years, and consider myself a very safe driver. You can do this!

    4. I had a period of extreme stress that started to impact my driving. I made a practice of settling into the car. Like consciously taking three deep breaths. Telling myself out loud “ok you are driving now. It is time for driving. Let everything else go for now”. I found it very helpful.

       1. Not OP, but I’m a nervous driver. I like this suggestion and will try this.

    5. Could you take a defensive driving class? Your rates will go up, but some insurance companies offer small discounts to drivers who take those classes.

    6. I wouldn’t be too hard on yourself unless you are noticing difficulty staying focused elsewhere in your day to day. Are you sleeping OK? Are you feeling depressed?

       Maybe it’s just me, but I’m noticing a lot more bad driving out there then I used to–and am contributing to some of it. I feel like I’m a little out of practice following so much work from home. Hopefully you’ll get your sea legs back again soon..

    7. I’ve been driving for three decades, and I’ve been in my share of minor accidents. Honestly, sh*t happens no matter how careful you are while you are driving. Everyone makes mistakes. FWIW, my insurance rates didn’t go up after my last accident, even though I was person who rear-ended the car in front of me. Go easy on yourself – even if you were at fault in either accident, you weren’t speeding the wrong way down a freeway after six martinis!

       Have you thought about trying out a new car? I didn’t think I’d like all the cameras and bells/alarms on my new car, but it’s actually great. The warnings aren’t perfect, but help a LOT more than I anticipated.

    8. I actually felt a little moved by your post. I have experienced exactly the same. 25 years of driving without an accident and then two in 5 months. feel insecure and like I cannot trust myself

14. We pay $360 a year for trash collection. Do we still tip the trash collectors? They use the trucks with the automatic arms so they’re not physically picking up the bins.

    1. I would, yes. I pay a lot more than that for trash collection and I still tip at least $50/year.

    2. I have never tipped trash collectors and had no idea it was a thing until yesterday! In my area at least they’re government employees so I think you need to be careful about cash tips. Many state and local governments have limits on the amount of cash employees can accept.

    3. People tip their trash collectors? They’re city employees where I live.

       1. Isn’t this the second day this has come up? Before then, I had never heard of tipping trash collectors, and it seems absolutely bizarre to me. Mine work for the city as well. I realize it’s a grimy job, but it’s a highly paid grimy job!

          1. Yes, it came up yesterday when a poster said her trash wasn’t picked up for three weeks (!) bc she didn’t tip. I think that’s definitely an outlier, tho. She said folks would tape an envelope to the top of the can – which I feel would immediately get stolen in a lot of areas.

             1. That was me! Trash collection was done by a private company not the city. And literally every single household in that neighborhood tips like $5-20. The trash collectors also leave a holiday card for each household. Now I know to ask the neighbors when I move somewhere new!

       2. My husband works for the post office–a federal employee–and gets all kinds of Christmas tips/gifts.

    4. Sometimes trash collectors are city employees but often they are employees by a 3rd party with which the city has a franchise agreement. I live in CA and we don’t tip.

    5. We don’t tip here in the midwest. Our city, well the contractor they employ, uses the arm trucks so no one even gets out. I am not sure how’d you tip even if you wanted to? Unless you physically walked out to the truck?

       1. I had this same question when I read the discussion yesterday. I have no idea how I would physically hand the tip to the trash-truck guys (and as I said yesterday – I never see the same set of people twice, not that I have really monitored it) because they never get out of the trucks, and I don’t think they want us approaching the trucks as there are signs that say “do not approach drivers” on the doors.

          In any case – I have never tipped trash collectors and don’t plan to start now. We need to start drawing a line at some of this tipping nonsense.

       2. Every trash guy knows what an envelope taped to the top of the can means.

          Our city trash guys are amazing – they don’t leave a mess and take basically anything – so we listen for the truck and run out with small A-n gift cards for them.

          1. Also in Philly and agree that we have awesome sanitation workers!!

          2. I think what people are saying is that the envelope would disappear before the trash guy can get it.

          3. And then you get to feel really good about yourself and your generosity for the rest of the day! Yay you!

    6. They’re municipal employees in my city. As a fellow municipal employee, I know that they cannot accept tips so I have never considered tipping. I also know they’re Union and are well taken care of.

    7. What do your neighbors do? If it’s a private company then generally you tip, ime. No tip if it’s a city service.

       1. OP here. My neighbor says they tip the trash collectors as well as the mailman. I was a government employee until 2 months ago and we were not allowed to accept cash gifts, so I’m surprised about the mailman.

          1. Your neighbor sounds crazy over the top. Mailmen legally can’t accept tips.

          2. Anon 1245 here: mailmen can accept gifts but not cash or checks of $20 or less at a time for a total of $50 or less for the year.

             My dad is a mailman and definitely appreciates what he gets! I give a $20 gift card to somewhere generically useful like Amazon. I avoid Dunkin bc not everyone drinks coffee. IIRC, GCs to stores are fine but Visa or cash equivalent GCs are not.

             1. +1, we use A-n or Target gift cards for small holiday ‘thank yous’ to our mailman, UPS driver, trash guys, etc.

             2. I always tipped our mailwoman, but she retired last year and now we have different people every day. Do we still tip and how?

             3. I’m amazed at people who have the same mailman and UPS deliveryperson consistently enough that they feel like they need to tip them. For UPS – I have never seen the same person deliver our packages twice. If I tipped our UPS driver, I would be tipping them for that package delivery only. We also seem to get different mailmen all the time. Is this a function of living in a bigger city vs. a suburb or a small town?

             4. I live in a small college town and I don’t believe our UPS guy is consistent. Based on what neighbors have said, I think the mailman is the same (except when that person is sick or on vacation, etc.) but I’m never around when they come so I don’t actually know for sure.

    8. Anecdotal data point: small town, Midwest, for both municipal and non-municipal trash collection, it has never occurred to me to tip my trash collectors. And we’ve never had problems with pickup. We did tip our newspaper delivery people, when we got newspapers. I actually think most of them would include an envelope in one of the deliveries, to make it easier.

    9. The trash collectors in my town make more money than me. I’m not kidding. You guys should check your town, as most are government employees and salaries are public knowledge where I live.

       1. They make more money than me too (shoutout to the eternally stingy field of higher ed, lol). But it is hard work so I’m not offended they make more than me.

       2. Yup. Anon 1245 here. They’re city employees where I am and they’re Union and they do quite well. I’m a non-union city employee and they do considerably better than I do!

15. In-house people, tell me your thoughts on this:

    You work in-house at Company A, which is a large company that uses a lot of law firms. You used to work at Company B, which is similar to Company B. Company A and B send work to law firm C. You send work directly to partner D, but partner E, who also does work for your company, wants all of the internal credits from it.

    I imagine that this happens a lot. I don’t want to get involved in a law firm’s internal politics, but I understand now that many companies now do weigh in on this (sometimes with a DEI angle, sometimes when partners move firms, etc.). If it matters, E is the one who grumbled.

    1. I’m a partner at a law firm and in my experience E is always a white dude and D is a woman/person of color.

       I VERY much appreciate when clients go out of their way to make sure I get the credit for the work I do (or the work they give the firm because of me). It is one thing for me to tell my partners that I should be getting credit. It’s so much easier to do that with a clients backing.

       I wish more clients would do this. Until people of color and women start getting more credit (and therefore power), it’s going to continue to be progress on DEI efforts at a glacial pace.

    2. My company wants to push mandates about how credit is awarded (along the lines of “X% of credit on our matters as to go to a woman/minority”) and I am very uncomfortable with it because as a broad policy it will make us undesirable as a client (bc it puts firms in the position at times of having to give billing credit to someone who doesn’t have involvement with our matter in order to meet the requirement). What I am comfortable with is stating to firm management that we expect that they are taking into account the contributions of the specific attorneys who work on our matters when they make compensation decisions for those individuals, and I mention by name who they are and make clear that they’re the reason we use the firm regardless of who is getting the billing credit.

       BTW, the most egregious situation like this I deal with involves two white male lawyers – one who is the billing partner and does nothing for us, and one who does all the work and is amazing but doesn’t get billing credit. I know this only bc they work at the firm that I came from, but I proactively reach out to firm leadership about the junior guy and make sure they know that I don’t give a cr*p about the billing partner. I believe it’s helped.

       1. I think I like the first approach better for companies to take: sing the praises where they are due. Arbitrarily restacking the deck isn’t going to lead to the long-term result — how about taking those “billing attorneys” and actually meeting them and sending them some real work? More window dressing isn’t the solution to the grabby-credits problem.

          1. I’m not sure I understand the comment, but at least at the firms I was a partner at, the credit system was such that you could have someone who hadn’t done work for a client for years who still claimed the billing credit due to having been the first person to open a file for a customer. The partner who was actually doing/supervising the work was often hard pressed to secure credit especially if s/he was more junior. I was a biglaw partner myself and had the experience of having to fight all the way to the managing partner for credit in a similar situation; it was really, really hard as a junior partner to do that. But I never would have told a client that I was in that position.

       2. I am a female partner who struggles with this very problem but I hate hate hate the mandates you describe. I want to get credit because the client has effectively become mine because of my work and relationship building, not because of my sex and mere existence.

          1. I hated these mandates when I was at a firm. Cannot tell you how often I was pulled off an actually interesting matter to do a pitch because the “client wanted at least two women on the pitch deck.” (I was often reassured that I “didn’t actually have to work the matter if we got it”.). It was so disheartening to miss out on opportunities that my brain and work had earned for me that actually would have helped me make partner to instead provide nothing more than a set of ovaries and the gloss of diversity. I’ve experienced sexism and discrimination at work, but nothing has made me feel cheaper than well-intentioned “we need a woman, any woman” taps on the shoulder.

             I try to communicate this internally at my current in-house role, but it goes nowhere. It is like I’m screaming into the void. It drives me absolutely batty.

    3. Depends on the firm’s comp model. Models where the “workhorse partner” gets fair credit for time billed to the “relationship partner” client discourage this type of hoggish behavior.

       Clients can most effectively help D in this situation by asking to open a new matter where D is the attorney in charge, IMHO.

    4. I’d be annoyed anyone told me about this drama.

       1. I know one firm where if you breathed near a client in 1960, you owned all $ from them ever, no matter which office or which area of law. Those people have boats and ex-wives to pay for, so not likely to take a smaller slice of pie. IDK what you do with that. Maybe if there are a lot of new hires, they can chime in but they aren’t in a position to make wholesale changes I’m guessing.

       2. +1, why are they making this your problem? You do not control the internal politics of the firm. What does anyone expect you to do about this?

       3. Yeah, but as in house counsel we have a responsibility to know. We don’t want to perpetuate a situation where white male partners get all the credit, and the younger lawyers get all the work. Also, this is a huge talent retention risk. I just had to drop a firm because all their mid-level associates left. Guess why? This exact situation. Maybe we have to be careful about sticking our noses in too much, but it affects us too.

    5. I want the people who do good work to get credit for doing the work. I don’t want people – usually old white men – I don’t even know, who have never so much as sent a card to me or my boss or anyone at my organization, to take money that rightfully belongs to the person – usually women and POC – who does great work for me. So yeah I do see this as a problem to be addressed by the in house counsel who does the hiring. I have relatively few ways that I can directly impact equality in the legal profession and by gosh am I going to exercise this one.

    6. I’m in house. I have in-house colleagues who would meddle here. I think it is weird and uncomfortable for in-house counsel to dictate this to outside counsel. And if a partner at a firm complained to me about her firm’s internal politics, I’d encourage her to find a new firm and would use her current firm less since it appears to lack procedures to handle internal firm business internally.

16. Need gift help! Looking for an insulated mug that fits in a car drink holder. Since this will be a sticking stuffer type present, I’d like to keep it to about $20 but will splurge for the Yeti if that’s clearly the best.

    1. I like my Simple Modern insulated tumbler, and I have absolutely no complaints, but it’s probably not as good as a yeti. I think I have the “clear flip lid and straw 32 oz” model, it bulges out more at the top, and is a bit hard to squeeze into my cupholder. Most of their designs are slimmer so I’d go with those if you want to ensure cupholder compatibility.

    2. I love my 12 oz zojirushi if that’s what you’re looking for. It’s small so it easily fits in my cup holder and keeps my coffee hot for hours. Only downside is it’s hand wash only to maintain the seal so maybe know your audience if they’re looking for something more convenient.

    3. I love my Yeti and it fits in my car’s cupholders perfectly.

    4. I love my Aladdin, it never leaks, and it’s fit in every cupholder I’ve encountered.

    5. love my kleen kanteen

    6. Contigo all the way. Insulated, never leaks, all kinds of sizes, basically indestructible. I’ve had one for 15 years.

17. My company does the occasional casual day, with jeans permitted. I hate figuring out which jeans are appropriate for the office, so I’d prefer to sidestep the whole issue and find a pair of casual pants instead that serve the same purpose. Any ideas? Joggers feel too casual. I carry my weight in the hips and thighs, so stretch is always appreciated.

    1. Following with interest. I’m currently going with black Spanx like pants but that’s more formal imo. I wish jeans in the office meant leggings are ok too.

    2. Check out the Pintuck Sweatpants from JCrew Factory or the Hayden pants from BR Factory. The sweatpants might be too casual but the Hayden pants should fit the bill.

    3. J Crew Factory pintuck sweat pants. They really don’t look like sweatpants, they are comfortable, and the pintuck down the front makes them look more like real pants.

18. Other overachieving chicks can hopefully relate to this–lately I’ve been struck with some panic over the idea that I am living my life on “easy mode”. I’m 27, single, in a major city in the US where I’ve lived my entire life.

    When I look back on the last ten years, I did everything by the book—I went to the well ranked local state U, choose the “right” major, got the “right” internship which lead to the “right” job out of college, which lead to my current Big Job that pays great money for reasonable hours in the city where I grew up. I have lots of friends (mostly people from college who are also from the same metro area), my entire immediate family lives 30 minutes away, the city I live in is beautiful and fun and filled with things to do. I have my little hobbies and my own apartment and I’m generally quite content. The only thing not “right” in my life is that I don’t have a partner, which would be nice but is not immediately pressing to me as I just got out of a 3 year relationship in July. And lately I’ve been getting up in the morning and all I can think is….is this it? Am I at cruising altitude now? There’s no struggle, no challenge.

    I know I am so, so fortunate to have a life like this, where I’m surrounded by friends and family with a job I love that supports the lifestyle I want. But lately I’ve been lying awake at night thinking about if this is just it for the rest of my life. It feels like I never pushed myself, never took the hard road, and never put myself in exciting situations that truly tested me. I care a lot about my job but I never had to grind that hard to get to where I am. I advanced pretty quickly early in my career and have hit a seniority point where I’d like to stay for 3-5 years if not more, so no big promotions to work for. I have personal goals like books to read, races to run, language skills to improve on, but that all seems so small and unexciting. I fantasize about quitting my job and going to go be an au pair, or bartend, or getting a corporate but “small” job in a foreign country, just to see if I could hack it, but it feels like I’d be blowing my life up and ruining the career I worked hard for, not to mention terribly lonely. But there’s something in me that’s craving the challenge.

    I’m either asking for permission to blow my life up and flee to some remote beach to write the Great American Novel or I’m looking for someone to talk me off the ledge and remind me that I’m lucky to have the privilege to grapple with this.

    1. you have permission to do either. I would find something that excites you. It doesn’t require blowing up your life but you absolutely can do that if you want. I think you can find challenge in a healthy way.

    2. 1. I’d love to know your city. Life there sounds awesome. Have lived, bitter and single, in a city where a lot of romance novels and movies are set. In a horrible apartment. The grass isn’t always greener.

       2. Trouble will find you, sooner or later, right where you are, so don’t worry about that :)

       3. But don’t listen to me. I’m a daredevil who has done all sort of stuff b/c YOLO. Not like is-that-pill-fentalyl stuff. But other stuff that I’m so lucky that it ended well or at least was a good learning experience (I have great stories at parties).

       4. Could this be a long hangover from COVID isolation? I feel like people’s social lives will have a renaissance and you may meet, if not the right guy, at least the next one.

       1. I’m not the OP but I’m in Philly and this is very much my life: still mostly affordable (for now…), lots of friends who I met from several life stages who are from the area (so they’re likely to stay put), family is all nearby. I can afford a nice apartment by myself. There’s plenty going on in the city. Really, the only thing that’s not perfect for me is I hate winter.

    3. This…isn’t a real problem? Many people feel like they’re in a rut and the days blend together no matter how “hard” their life has been. This has nothing to do with how easy it was for you to make local friends and find a job. If a particular city or country genuinely appeals to you (not just the romanticized fantasy of living somewhere different) then go for it. But if you’re thinking a change of scenery is the answer and you bring all your habits with you then you’ll wind up with the same problem in a new location. Quitting your job to become a bartender is a terrible idea. Don’t do anything drastic that will derail your career once you snap out of this phase. See if you can take a leave of absence for a few months then travel.

    4. You are most definitely lucky to have the privilege to grapple with this.

       I don’t see anything in your post about giving back. Are you volunteering? Donating to worthy causes? Serving on any boards? My life is most definitely on “easy mode” and has been for quite some time, and I get the most satisfaction from helping those less fortunate. Maybe look into that?

       1. Agree.

       2. Agreed, I feel like OP needs to invest in her community and making the world a better place in some way if she isn’t already – it’s a good way to break out of a rut and increase gratitude.

          Also I read something once that I will butcher now but it was basically like, don’t mistake contentment for boredom?
          If your brain is used to chaos or struggle, normalcy or neutrality can feel like a prison. It’s not. Retrain your brain and body to accept and appreciate it.

       3. This whole site is for women with first world problems!

    5. There are ways to keep life interesting beyond quitting everything and starting over.

       Rather than little hobbies, why not try a new big challenging hobby, such as training for a race or volunteering for an organization you’re passionate about?
       If you rent your apartment, why not save up for and research to move toward home ownership?
       Do you have a pet and if not why not research and get a pet? A pet can also be a hobby, such as an aquarium.
       Find “adventures” to add variety and interest to your life – weekend trips, exploring locally, going to sporting or theater events.

    6. I currently feel this way even though I did go through struggles and tests and challenges. Now, having reached “cruising altitude,” I am still stuck in the mindset of believing that I must constantly struggle and push myself harder and find new challenges.

       I only have advice on the specific idea of fleeing to a beach to write the Great American Novel. You do NOT have to flee to the beach to write a novel. What you need is to start writing a novel. I recommend 500 words per sitting, with a minimum of 4 sittings per week (telling yourself that you’ll write every day is impractical and sets you up for failure). Sit at your computer/writing pad and write 500 words. At the next sitting, another 500 words. Whether they are good or bad does not (immediately) matter. You can revise everything.

       1. I was about to say this about novel writing! You don’t even have to start with a novel if you don’t want. I can’t say my life has been without struggle, but having a big hobby (writing a novel) and a big goal (getting published) has helped me find meaning outside of work.

          And giving back in the form of volunteering and donations.

    7. As a 43 year old, this is the dream. Easy, fun, chill life! I mostly have it now, but I went through two decades of a lot of $hit (some my own doing, some not). Lean into it and try some new hobbies, activities, or start dating (that usually makes life uh interesting).

    8. You could bartend on the side? One of my SIL’s has a great corporate job but bartends one night a week and bartends for special events. She doesn’t need the money but she enjoys talking with people and uses all the extra funds she makes to travel.

       Something that also helps me, and this isn’t for everyone, is to just see yourself as blessed and realize so many would love your life. This isn’t to say that you aren’t allowed your feelings, but for me, it helps me put my own life in perspective a bit in regards to the world.

    9. Start saving for travel

    10. This sounds familiar. So much of the first half of our lives is filled with big challenges, and the second half to reaping the benefits of tackling those challenges. But when you are conditioned to chase challenges, the second half can be really hard. See if you can find a challenge without blowing up your life. It’s really hard to get back on the career track if you jump off, and you are just entering the make money phase of your career. Leaving now means you won’t benefit from all the work you put into getting here.

    11. Why do you feel that you need to struggle? If you want a challenge sign up to run a marathon. Plan a solo international trip for a week or two. Figure out what you enjoy and do it. Life doesn’t have to be a struggle. You sound like a very hard working and fortunate person. No need to change that.

        I just skimmed the other responses and someone said trouble will find you and I guarantee it will! I had a friend pass away suddenly and tragically. Think sad movie. Then a few months later a friends fiancé died unexpectedly under 30. Shot happens and it’s a good to enjoy when life is calm. I feel like I hit 29 and my life blew up. Deaths, break ups, illness etc. Enjoy life!!

        1. Plan a solo international marathon, even.

    12. I feel like I’m in a very similar place as you. I moved away for a few years and then came back to my city and had a hard job in a field where most jobs are hard at least some of the time (and require weird hours and poor work life balance and generally are underpaid).

        I pivoted my career ahd now work in a position with a total desk job and very rare calls outside of work hours and I’m in corporate America and make decent money. My job is not personally fulfilling or exciting but it’s stable, pays well, promotes work/life balance, and I have a great reputation here.

        I’m 28, single, live in a fun but affordable city with a ton of local friends, an apartment that I love and some good hobbies. My family all lives in the suburbs 30 minutes away.

        I was a college rower and had my previous career and so I kind of assumed life always needed a challenge and to be difficult. I love type 2 fun.

        I love being busy and involved and akso feeling like I’m part of a community is really important for me.

        Not sure if any of this is helpful, but here are some things I do:
        – I do 3-4 half marathons and triathlons year. I love racing and love the non-running parts of tris but I hate running so that’s a struggle. But I love being fit and having something to look forward to.
        – turns out I love “type 2 fun” so sometimes I plan workouts, hikes, or other activities that fall under this category
        – I started grad school part time. This is definitely type 2 fun!
        – now that I live alone I’ve explored more hobbies: cooking and baking, painting, knitting. I have no artistic or creative talent but am enjoying learning.
        – I am just so thankful to have s great local network. I had like 3 friends in my old city so now that I live near friends and met many new ones I socialize literally 6 nights a week. It’s exhausting but fulfilling. I akso keep in regular contact with several long distance friends abc have become the friend where many go to for advice and venting and sharing emotions, which is fulfilling and touching.
        – I play on a few sports teams which I absolutely love.

        Where I’m lacking:
        – I am on the apps but go on about one date a year. I’d like to date more in hopes of finding someone. I’ve had some truly disastrous FWB situations but I’ve been single for 8 years.
        – I have dropped about 10k on grad school thus far and really need to rebuild my savings.
        – I used to volunteer regularly and would like to get back to this.
        – since starting grad school I’ve almost completely stopped traveling and have really cut back om the outdoor activities that make me feel alive like hiking and surfing
        – I way over commit and stretch myself too thin and then have mental breakdowns…
        – I am still job searching just in case I find something better.
        – I often fantasize about joining the national guard or reserves as a side job? I think that would scratch the itch for much of what I feel I’m missing in life: a challenge, somewhere I could give back to my community, some extra money to rebuild my savings.

    13. When I’m in periods like this, where everything is going well and I just need to “cruise,” I thank my lucky stars. Enjoy it while it lasts!

    14. I’m 38. I’ve had periods of my life where I’ve felt like this. My advice is to embrace and enjoy the time you’re in now. Don’t blow your life up, but feel free to add volunteering, side jobs, extreme hobbies, etc to it. You won’t be cruising forever, and while I can’t say what specific challenges life has for you, I can guarantee that some years will be more difficult than this one. Practice gratitude and give back to your community.

        1. To me this sounds like a yearning of the soul. Modern America doesn’t talk much about people’s spiritual needs, but they’re real. Until now, you were distracted by external stuff. Now maybe it’s time to start connecting to the Infinite?

19. I have some of those cedar blocks in my closets due to past moth problems. I just bought some new ones because I can’t detect a cedar scent any more. Are these really just disposable items or is there a way to sort of refresh the old ones?

    1. Lightly sand them to refresh the aroma.

    2. Really? Just sand them, why would you throw them away?

       1. Maybe because she didn’t know she could just sand them for the cedar smell to return. I actually didn’t know that, and I’m a high functioning person! I’m glad to have learned something new today.

20. Exactly. I completely appreciate that we’re finally having more conversations about division of labor and emotional labor, but sometimes it gets really exhausting when people automatically jump to “dumb husband!”

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