This post may contain affiliate links and Corporette® may earn commissions for purchases made through links in this post. As an Amazon Associate, I earn from qualifying purchases.
Sales of note for 9.19.24
- Nordstrom – Beauty deals through September, and cardmembers earn 3x the points (ends 9/22)
- Ann Taylor – Extra 30% off sale
- Banana Republic Factory – 50% off everything + extra 20% off
- Boden – 15% off new styles
- Eloquii – Extra 50% off sale
- J.Crew – 50% off select styles — and 9/19 only, 50% off the cashmere wrap
- J.Crew Factory – Up to 60% off everything + 50% off sale with code
- Lo & Sons – Warehouse sale, up to 70% off
- M.M.LaFleur – Save 25% sitewide
- Neiman Marcus – Friends & Family 25% off
- Rag & Bone – Friends & Family 25% off sitewide
- Spanx – Lots of workwear on sale, some up to 70% off
- Talbots – Anniversary event, 25% off your entire purchase — Free shipping, no minimum, 9/19 only
- Target – Car-seat trade-in event through 9/28 — bring in an old car seat to get a 20% discount on other baby/toddler stuff.
- Tuckernuck – Friends & Family Sale – get 20%-30% off orders (ends 9/19).
- White House Black Market – 40% off select styles
And some of our latest threadjacks here at Corporette (reader questions and commentary) — see more here!
Some of our latest threadjacks include:
- What to say to friends and family who threaten to not vote?
- What boots do you expect to wear this fall and winter?
- What beauty treatments do you do on a regular basis to look polished?
- Can I skip the annual family event my workplace holds, even if I'm a manager?
- What small steps can I take today to get myself a little more “together” and not feel so frazzled all of the time?
- The oldest daughter is America's social safety net — change my mind…
- What have you lost your taste for as you've aged?
- Tell me about your favorite adventure travels…
Ellen
Yay! Happy Monday, Elizabeth! I love the way you are integrating these beautiful plus size sheathe dresses into your repertoire. It is beautiful. Since most of us will all have bigger hips and tuchuses as we reach our 40’s, it is good not to show us only things that we can only wear in our 20’s and 30’s.
I spent the weekend cleaning all of my closets out of clothes that I haven’t worn and piled all of them up on my couch for my cleaneing lady to go through for her daughter, Luz, and to bring the rest up to Goodwill. Dad says for her to get a reciept for them even tho I can NOT itemize my taxes any more, which is silly b/c of all the money I spend on my work clothe’s, even with the manageing partner’s reimbursments. Dad says you never know who is going to be president after the election, and he or she could change all of the rules overnite, as has happened with our SALT deductions in NYC. I do not know how we in NYC could be legally prevented from deducting our SALT, while peeople in other states still can. Myrna says that it is all legal, but she is NOT a lawyer, and there is nothing we can do about it. The manageing partner’s brother also says it is all legal, so I suppose it must be, even tho he is not a lawyer, either. Dad is going to do my return and pay my tax again to the IRS this year, so I will trust him to do what he needs to do. YAY!!!
Anon
I’ve been seeing a guy who is Jewish (for context, I’m not religious, but have a Catholic background, and am little uncomfortable with religion in general). We really like each other and recently had a “where is this going” conversation in which he asked not-so-casually whether I would ever consider converting for love. He’s not very religious (eats bacon, worked on the last two major holidays) but it’s clearly a big part of his identity. My answer was “it depends”, and I honestly don’t know how I feel about it, even hypothetically. He seemed fine with that answer and we moved on to other things but now I’m wondering if it’s a dealbreaker for him and if it’s even something I would consider for a really great person. Does anyone have any experience with this?
Anon
It’s pretty common for even non-religious Jews to want their partner to convent, especially men. He probably doesn’t actually care much about your religion but your children won’t be Jewish unless you convert and he would want his future kids to be considered Jewish. Unless you’re sure you wouldn’t convert, I don’t think you need to end things now.
Anonymous
Right, this. If he wants his kids to be Jewish (even not super religious), their mother needs to be Jewish. He would probably want a basic set of traditions that are mainstream even among non religious jews:
Chuppah at wedding
Naming ceremony
circumcision if you have a boy
Sitting shiva at death
Celebrating big family holidays like Passover
When you talk about avoiding bacon, going to temple, putting kids in Hebrew school, bar/bar mitzvahs, fasting, that’s another level of religion.
Source: all my friends growing up ranged from Jewish to Jew-ish. But they did all of the above. Only the actually Jewish kids had to go through Hebrew school.
Anonymous
Ha — I am from Northern New Jersey (near Livingston) and I totally get the Jewish and Jew-ish thing. My non-Jewish Christian high school didn’t close for Jewish holidays, but we had just general review sessions those days and movies b/c so many kids were out.
Anon
Reform temples generally welcome interfaith families and Reform rabbis will marry Jews to non-Jews so you can do all of the above without converting. My mother’s not Jewish so technically our kids aren’t Jewish either (even though 3 of their 4 grandparents are), but we were married by a Reform rabbi and have attended major holidays at our local Reform temple. There are lots of interfaith families, even one where one parent actively practices a religion that’s not Judaism.
anon.
This is correct, please do not spread false information! I’m a reform Jew, and the vast, vast majority of rabbis will welcome interfaith couples under the chuppah for weddings, fully have participation in baby namings, etc. (Jewish “life cycle events”). I have lost count of how many interfaith couples I know who have had Jewish weddings in the reform tradition without formal conversion. I don’t think this is accurate information for many American Jewish synagogues.
Ms B
This. I am MOT and The Hubs is not. I did not ask him to convert, but we agree to have a Jewish home because my religion matters a lot to me and his did not.
We did attend pre-marriage classes for several months so that he could learn about Judaism at the insistence of the rabbi who married us. Note that it was a bit of a project all those years ago to find a rabbi in our Midwest city who would do an interfaith non-congregant marriage (we had not affiliated with a synagogue at that point), but it is a lot easier now. We had a chuppah and followed most traditions at the wedding (ketubah, walking with both parents, circling the groom, kiddush, etc.) and we now observe the “big” holidays.
We are in the process of affiliating now (because: The Kid) and had an assortment of congregations to choose from, all welcoming to interfaith families. The intent is to convert The Kid in a year or two (his birthmother was not Jewish) and then throw the bar mitzvah when the time comes. I loved going to Jewish summer camp and doing youth group in high school and hope to pass that on, along with a number of other traditions.
For a humorous take on the subject, I recommend You Tubing the song “I Could Be Jewish for You” sung by Barrett Wilbert Reed.
LaurenB
Same here. My mother is not Jewish, my father is, I grew up non-practicing (though with a very obviously-Jewish last name), I married my husband who has both Jewish parents, we were married by a Reform rabbi. I am active in my temple for social reasons and no one gives a darn that my mother wasn’t Jewish (and I certainly would never hide it). The Reform movement changed their policy on patrilineal Jews in the early 1980s. Our temple fully welcomes interfaith couples / children. It’s of zero concern to me (and my Reform Jewish friends) that Orthodox and / or Conservative wouldn’t consider my children Jewish because 1 of their 4 grandparents isn’t. If my child were to marry someone of that faith tradition and go through a O or C conversion, that’s their decision to make as adults, This matrilineal-only thing is irrelevant to the majority of Jews today in the US, and even more so with the advent of DNA testing, because 50% Jewish is 50% Jewish regardless of whether it came from mother or father.
Anonymous
My husband converted to Judaism to marry his ex-wife. He is not religious and didn’t grow up in a religious home, and his ex-wife wasn’t particularly religious, but wanted her kids to be Jewish and this together with the family dynamic resulted in him having to convert if they were to get married. They had a Jewish wedding and eventually got divorced within a couple of years (and didn’t have any kids) and she now has a kid with another non-Jewish guy and he didn’t convert/they are not married as I think she ultimately decided it was less important than she originally thought.
I am also not religious and it would have felt disingenuous to me to pretend to be (and a bit disrespectful to the people who are members of that religion) and obviously I haven’t had to make this decision as both my husband and I are happily areligious now, but I would have found it hard to swallow. He gets that, but explained that at the time his view was very much ‘I am not religious anyway, what’s the big deal, it matters a lot to her and it doesn’t matter to me’. For him it was less a religious thing and more a cultural thing, which is how he describes his ex-wife also having looked at it (since she was not exactly devout anyway).
Whether it is a dealbreaker, I suppose comes down to the reasons – if you were to have kids and he wanted them to be Jewish, would that be ok with you? If he did want that, you would probably have to convert (I believe the maternal bloodline is relevant here for Judaism in particular). If you didn’t, but he still wanted you to do it just because, would you be ok with that? You don’t have to believe in it even if you do convert but obviously that involves effectively lying, and would you be comfortable with that?
Anonymous
Also, I should add, my husband did this when he was in his mid-twenties. He is now 42 and while I can’t be sure, my impression is that he wouldn’t do it now.
ElisaR
my understanding is that it is a little different to discuss man vs. woman with converting to judaism. In the Jewish religion the mother’s religion is what matters. So a non-Jewish father doesn’t mean much in terms of the kids. But a non-Jewish mother would mean the kids could not “be” Jewish.
Anon
this depends on the denomination
Anonymous
I don’t know about the denomination they were but my husband’s ex’wife’s mother was not born Jewish and converted and this apparently made a difference as well.
LaurenB
You people keep saying “but it matters whether it’s the mother or the father” and you are not listening – the Jewish denomination which is by far the largest in the US, Reform, is fine with either patrilineal or matrilineal as long as the child is being raised to identify as Jewish. It is only the more traditional factions that stick to matrilineal. I feel like I’m time-traveling back to the 1950s when I read this.
anon.
@LaurenB is right – thank you for articulating what I tried to say inarticulately above. If you’re reform, none of this sounds remotely familiar to the past 2-3 decades of how the real world works.
ElisaR
I guess my friends are just super old school! Thanks for clarifying.
Anonymous
Thanks for clarifying – I am anon whose husband married a Jewish woman and I should say that this was in the UK, around 12-13 years ago.
AZCPA
LaurenB, I have not found that to be true in my area of the country, In my community, the father vs ,mother still very much matters.
Anon
I had a coworker (F) convert to Judaism for love. It was A Process, and while I don’t know all the details, I do know that she had to drive 5+ hours away to see a rabbi who would do/approve/I don’t know what her particular conversion even though we live in a gigantic city with plenty of rabbis.
Personally, I don’t think I would ever convert unless I independently felt drawn to a particular religion separate from the practicality of wanting to be with someone. It sort of makes a mockery of true belief and also undermines a person’s sense of separate identity from their partner. Like, I’m happy not being religious, or being a different religion, until all of a sudden you come along and I’m willing to change.
Anon
Personally I wouldn’t convert unless I was genuinely moved by personal faith to do so. If you are religious enough to need your future spouse to convert then surely you’re religious enough to want that faith to be sincerely held, and not just a box ticking exercise?
NYCer
+1.
Anon
So, i actually think that this points to a big difference between Judaism and some Christian denominations. While Christianity (Protestantism,I understand) places an emphasis on “salvation through faith alone,” Judaism places an emphasis on “do so that you might become.” I’m a relatively observant Jew, and in my Jewish education and community, questions of faith really take a backseat to questions of what we might learn or explore by following commandments and traditions. Conversion is a big, big deal and I don’t think anyone should take it lightly, but from a Jewish perspective, especially a culturally rather than religiously Jewish perspective, it might genuinely be more about what you are willing to do rather than about what you believe.
anon.
This is a great comment. There are a lot of progressive rabbis with commentary about it – not seeing Judaism and its traditions through the eyes of white Christianity, particularly as it has evolved in America through the past half century. They are fundamentally different and it isn’t just that cultural traditions are different. The entire belief system – including around conversion – are not the same at all.
Anon.
As someone who grew up in a protestant home with very little education about other faiths, this is very interesting to me. Thank you for sharing this perspective.
Never too many shoes...
I was engaged to a Jew-ish guy when I was younger and I strongly considered a Reform conversion just to keep the peace. My point was that I could be an atheist regardless and he took no issue with that nor did the two Reform rabbis that I consulted.
LaurenB
It is my personal observation that there are plenty of Jewish people who want a partner to convert because they’ve been told all their lives about the importance of keeping Jewish tradition and families going (understandably given the Holocaust) and in that regard, don’t particularly care if their partner “believes” as long as the partner “does.” In other words, their prime motivator is “raising my children to be Jewish so the circle of life goes on,” not “sharing my faith with my spouse.” And trust me, there are plenty of women who “lightly convert” who wind up being the more active Jewish spouse. I am neither defending nor dissing this, just describing.
Anonymous
It’s funny, I think a lot of religions are the same, big picture (do undo others, love thy neighbor). But some of the specifics of how the religion works bug me about some religions (including my husband’s, which celebrates the same holidays I do, but I just have too many issues with how that faith is practiced.
I dated a Jewish guy for a while (grew up in highly Jewish area but am not Jewish) and his mom had converted and he mentioned that many Jewish people didn’t regard him as Jewish since his mother was only converted Jewish and not born Jewish (not sure if this varies by Reform-Conservative-Lubbavich – or other groups within Judaism). We didn’t break up over this but he did marry someone born Jewish.
Anon
I know someone who was raised as a fairly secular Jew who then became an atheist and then became a Mormon for love. That relationship didn’t work out but he’s still a Mormon, has done a mission, and is married with kids in Utah. I don’t think it works if you don’t have any interest in the religion.
Anon for this
Yes, if you have kids it will likely be important to him even if he’s not religious. My husband is Jewish and we keep a Jewish household even though neither of us is religious, and if we had wanted kids, I’d have converted. It’s less about the religion and more about the culture. As someone not personally religious either, see if your boyfriend is open to the reform tradition, I’ve found it lovely for the high holy days and very light on a religious aspect, especially as compared to the Catholicism I grew up with,
Anon
I have twice dated guys who were Jewish. And both times, I made clear that I wouldn’t convert because I was genuinely moved by personal faith to do so even though I am not religious.
The first time was in college. We dated for a little over two years, had all the discussions, and agreed we would raise our kids with both cultural backgrounds. We broke up for other reasons, but I think it would have worked since neither of us was religious, he was raised in a reform synagogue, he had many friends who were raised with both Christian and Jewish cultural traditions, and he enjoyed celebrating Christian holidays with my family. The second time was in my early 30s. We dated for a few months before breaking up. Although he didn’t admit it, I’m fairly confident that he dumped me because I wasn’t Jewish and wasn’t willing to convert (and wasn’t willing to not celebrate the secular aspect of Christian holidays, but we never discussed that).
For me, my biggest concerns related to raising kids. I have a lot of really great family memories tied to Christian holidays, and I couldn’t image not participating in the secular aspects of those holiday with my kids (i.e., dying Easter eggs, decorating a Christmas tree, making Christmas cookies, going to see Christmas lights). I would happily embrace Jewish traditions as well. The college boyfriend was willing to accept those traditions, and even embrace them. The second guy wasn’t.
This is a long way of saying think about what it would mean giving up and whether you are ok with that or would resent it over time.
Anon
And that it will be a deal-breaker for some men, but not for others.
Ellen
This makes a lot of sense. I think we need to take stock of ourself and our goals and desires b/f trying to mold someone else into what we are b/f we are sure of our own self. Personally, I think relationships are difficult enough at any level b/f adding the additional complexity of religion into the mix. Not to say this is not important — it is — but we must not push people to do something unless they want it and we want it, whatever it is — religion, housing, where to eat, alchohol or not, and what kind of $ex we want (or not). Only in this way can we even hope to have a relationship that lasts. So many people marry right away thinking they can fix things later, but the things they wanted to fix don’t get fixed so they get divorced within 4 years. That is what happened with my freinds who got married right out of GW. The cute guy became ugly after a couple of years of doing things he shouldn’t and the cute woman also got uncute after doing things the guy didn’t like. It happens. Even where there is good chemistry and great $ex, it does NOT overcome thes other things. So maybe me waiting for the right guy has not been such a bad thing, even tho Grandma Leyeh is disappointed I have not yet delivered a grandchild for her $50,000 yet.
Anonymous
It’s going to be a deal breaker and I would walk away now.
Anonymous
+10000000.
Anon for this
Or learn about it and then decide? I can’t imagine not being with my husband over Judaism.
Anonymous
It’s about him not being with you.
Anonymous
Right. I’d happily marry a Jew. The issue is him refusing to marry someone who isn’t.
Anon for this
Not always, he’s asking if she’s open to conversion. That says he’s open to someone not born Jewish, but willing to convert.
Anonymous
He’s not open to marrying a non Jew.
Anonymous
Him asking about it is an initial discussion but he signaling that this is definitely what he wants. He can’t exactly show up to this discussion and demand it, after all.
AZCPA
I think that’s a lot of assumption. A dear Jewish friend was dating a man who was not, and she asked him that. She was 100% fine with him not converting – if you are getting married it only makes sense to ask those kinds of questions – it doesn’t mean there’s only one “right” answer.
LaurenB
The core question is – if you were to say yes, you’d commit to raising your future children Jewish (Hebrew school, bar/bat mitzvah, etc.) – is that enough for him or is it important you, yourself, go through conversion? Because in Reform, that first scenario is indeed “good enough” and Reform temples are chock full of Jewish men married to non-Jewish wives who are raising the family in a Jewish home with Jewish traditions. And no one blinks an eye.
Anonymous
Source: I am not Jewish but we are active members of our JCC and my kid went to JCC summer camp for 6 years.
I am also super-confused about the people who are asking questions/making statements from what seems to me to be a very Conservative or Orthodox Jewish point of view, which (at least in my area) is not common. From our involvement at our local J we know lots of families where the children are being raised as Jewish but one of the parents is not Jewish and it doesn’t seem to matter, and it also doesn’t matter which parent is the non-Jew. My son just went to a Bar Mitzvah for a kid whose dad is what I would call Jew-ish (ha! love that) and whose mom is definitively not Jewish, but has had no problem with their kids being raised as Jews. The two temples that most of the J members we know attend are Reform and so maybe I’m just familiar with Reform ideas/traditions and not Conservative or Orthodox. That might be a good question for the OP to ask her boyfriend: Are you and your family Reform, Conservative or Orthodox? If it’s the latter two, then yeah, it’s probably a deal-breaker that she won’t convert. If he’s Reform, maybe he’s out of touch with his own movement’s guidelines and/or there’s family pressure for him to marry a Jewish woman? I don’t think we have enough information (and OP might not either) to be able to make a “dealbreaker, next!” type of call.
LaurenB
I think she’d already know if the guy were Orthodox, LOL.
Anon
Context, I’m married to a Jewish man, and we go to a reform synagogue, so I agree completely with what you’re saying about the reform tradition. The piece to clarify in dating is how OP’s potential partner actually feels about it. My husband was raised conservative (not as uncommon as you’d think) and has very strong opinions on conversion and the matrilineal angle if there are kids (doesn’t want his kids to ever be questioned not that he thinks it’s right). My point is this is a very nuanced discussion that’s going to have a lot of personal feelings involved that may differ from official doctrine. If OP otherwise is really into this guy, I’d be open to the discussion and it’s nuances. I had to get comfortable not celebrating the Christian holidays in our home and he got comfortable with reform over what he grew up with. We are very happy and dare I say the stereotype about Jewish men being great husbands has proven true for me.
Anon
I would agree with this– he also may think that you aren’t willing to raise the kids Jewish if you aren’t willing to convert and this is his way of figuring out your opinion on that.
anon
I married a Jewish man and didn’t convert, and while we ultimately divorced it didn’t have anything to do with religion (he remarried and his second wife did not convert either). We had a similar conversation and it wasn’t a dealbreaker for him – he just wanted to understand where I was coming from. OP, it may or may not be a dealbreaker for this guy or for you and no one on this board knows. It’s an important conversation to have as part of getting to know each other better. but none of us know what it will mean for you (and he probably doesn’t know yet either).
Anon
This. I believe there was an article maybe in NYT in the last year or two about this. Jewish guys who don’t practice at all, are happy to date whoever, suddenly have their own mamas in their ears when it’s engagement time re how she’s a nice girl but not Jewish and then they feel “guilted” enough to demand conversion. This is usually how it starts — with hinting. Move on if you don’t want to convert.
Anon
This. I believe there was an article maybe in NYT in the last year or two about this. Jewish guys who don’t practice at all, are happy to date whoever, suddenly have their own mamas in their ears when it’s engagement time re how she’s a nice girl but not Jewish and then they feel “guilted” enough to demand conversion. This is usually how it starts — with hinting. Move on if you don’t want to convert.
anon
I dated a Jewish man in college who act like you describe your partner. It did occur to me somewhere along the way that he was more religious than I (although it was more like cultural identity rather than overt religion) and that it would seem fair for me to convert if we ended up together.
Anon
I married a Jewish man. He grew up conservative; his mom grew up Orthodox. Notably, his sister had already married someone that wasn’t Jewish, and there were other family members that had married people that weren’t Jewish. I’m not particularly religious. He asked me while we were dating if I would consider converting– I felt (and still feel) like it would be slightly disingenuous for me to convert.
For our wedding– we pretty much created our own ceremony and had a family friend marry us. He had a chuppah and did allow both parents to walk us down the aisle. The main thing we fought about (and this was not really him, more me and DH’s mom) was whether we would have kippahs.
We plan on doing Hebrew school and all the other life ceremonies. I have told DH that he is in charge of this though. We recently joined a reform synagogue and go together. No one cares that I haven’t converted, and we plan on sending our kids to preschool, etc. there.
Also- -this whole your kids can’t be Jewish if you aren’t is not true. There is a ceremony they can perform to sort of convert your kids (think like a baptism). That was our plan when DH was attending a conservative synagogue. Now that we go to a reform one, it does not matter.
anon
It’s not like a baptism. That’s a Christian-centric characterization, and as a Jew I find it offensive.
Anonymous
My husband is Jewish (Reform), and I grew up in a Christian denomination. Neither of us will convert. This is something that we talked about many many times while we were dating, and we each have our own reasons for not converting and respect each other’s reasons. We had an interfaith wedding (and went through the pre-wedding prep stuff for both religions) and celebrate both sets of holidays. I go to High Holidays services with him, and he goes to church with me on Easter and Christmas. If the timing works out, we have a Christmas tree and menorah lit at the same time. No kids, so can’t offer any advice on that. I don’t know if your thoughts on conversion are a dealbreaker for him, because I’ve obviously never met him, but, at least in my relationship, this wasn’t a conversation that we had just once. I will say that we had a lot of trouble finding a rabbi who would co-officiate at an interfaith wedding (no trouble at all finding a Christian co-officiant), and the local Reform congregation is not super-welcoming to interfaith families, although that is slowly starting to change here (and in other places I’ve lived, hasn’t been an issue at all).
Anon
While the reform movement does not care about the mother being Jewish i know of a few couples where it became an issue when their child was dating/getting married and ending up converting as an adult. Both cases had Jewish fathers but not Jewish mothers. One had even had a bar mitzvah Even if you don’t convert, just convert your kids bc it’s much easier to convert a baby than for an adult to convert
Anon
And definitely circumcise your boys because that is not a fun thing to go through as an adult (I know someone who did it!)
Ellen
I dated Gonzalo, who was NOT circusmscribed, and I did NOT want to have to deal with that up so close and personal all the time he came over, like he wanted me to. I also knew he had other women to do that for him in their apartements, and I was NOT about to do any of that, knowing full well where that had been the night or two before. FOOEY!
LaurenB
Nope. My Reform temple / rabbi consider my kids fully Jewish despite having 1 grandparent (but the critical one – my mother) not being Jewish, and I was not going to bother. What do I care if Conservative or Orthodox don’t consider my kids Jewish? It only becomes an issue if my kids choose to marry one of them, and at that point they are adults and can do their own thing. It’s just so … extra of C / O Jews to think Reform should care about their definitions.
Small Law Partner
I would want to know why he wants you to convert. You need to know that to determine if it is a dealbreaker. Is it just so you can get married in a ceremony that makes his family happy? Is this going to mean actively practicing and if you have kids, raising them with religion?
I went through this before, but sort of the reverse. I’m culturally Jewish for the most part, although one of my parents is Catholic, but I am generally agnostic. Religion also makes me uncomfortable to a certain extent. My ex was very religious (Armenian Apostolic), and when I learned he wanted me to convert and expected me to be involved in the church too, it was a dealbreaker even though he was a great guy. I would have been OK with converting if required to get married in his church, and attending services now and again, but not the level of involvement he wanted.
Where you go, I will go
As a Jew (and I don’t speak for all of us), I find the notion of conversion for love or marriage offensive. If your relationship to this guy ends or when he dies, will you still embrace Judaism? If not, please don’t convert. It cheapens conversion for everyone else.
You may want to read the story of Ruth–the first person to convert to Judaism.
Anon
Does anyone know whether you can become a physician assistant without getting the flu vaccine? My cousin wants to become a PA and has been struggling to find the answer to this question. She has been advised not to get the flu vaccine after a history of extended adverse reactions (so it’s medical, not personal exemption/religious), but she didn’t have Guillain-Barre or one of the known definite exclusions so she’s worried she won’t be able to get an exemption if her future employer requires all employees to be vaccinated (which appears to be common these days). She’s trying to get answers from her doctor, the PA school closest to her, and professional organizations, but no one seems to be able to provide an answer and I told her I’d ask here. Any ideas?
Anonanonanon
Depends on the policy of the facility or agency you are working with. At the very least they will make her wear a mask for the duration of flu season, and probably make her sign an acknowledgment that they can ask her to stay at home without pay during a particularly heavy flu outbreak if they have reason to believe they need to keep their unvaccinated workforce at home. Ethically speaking, I hope she doesn’t intend to work with any particularly vulnerable populations.
FormerlyPhilly
This.
Anonymous
This. I’m an MD.
Anonymous
I’m confused how she has had genuine ‘adverse reactions’ but doesn’t have a medical doctor who will provide a medical exemption specifying why she cannot have it. Who advised her not to get the vaccine? If that person is a medical doctor, can they not provide a medical exemption. If she had a verified medical exemption, it would be likely that an employer may be required to accommodate her – e.g she continues to be employer but must wear a mask all flu season when treating higher risk patients like patients with COPD or children under 6 or adults over 65.
Anon
She has a medical doctor (a specialist) who can write a letter, but since her diagnosis isn’t on the CDC’s reasons for exemptions list, she’s worried it won’t be accepted.
Anonymous
Then it’s not a legitimate medical condition. She needs a new doctor and a proper health evaluation. Medical exemptions are the new tool of many anti-vaxxers. That’s why the CDC list exists.
Anon
It IS a medical condition and she is in no way an anti-vaxxer. Little is known about her condition, which I’m not sharing for privacy reasons, and research is ongoing to learn more about the causes and potential treatments. I will say though, attitudes like yours haven’t made her years of dealing with chronic illness any easier. Being told you’re faking it is really hurtful to people suffering from rare diseases that are poorly understood.
Anonymous
It’s pretty reasonable to think that the CDC would be more aware of the latest research on rare diseases than a random GP. The CDC deals with rare diseases all the time.
Anon
Yeah, sorry I don’t buy this. The CDC is a leading source of info on rare diseases and there are a lot of quack-ish, vaccine-skeptical doctors out there (one of the most famous peds in America, “Dr. Bob” is anti-vax and puts children on delayed vaccine schedules for no reason).
Anon
Trust me when I say my cousin is a scientist, not a quack or an anti-vaxxer, and that she sees specialist MDs to answer her medical questions. There is currently very little/no research on whether someone with her condition can receive vaccines safely, CDC-approved or otherwise. I’m only interested in direct knowledge of whether someone who cannot get a flu vaccine can expect to work in a hospital or medical environment, not in your opinions on the anti-vax movement. Thanks!
Anonymous
This seems like an almost idyllic impression of what it’s like to have a rare condition. The CDC will typically use vague, sweeping language in cases like this, and actionable information may only be available from the specialists at one or another research university.
anon
Has she visited any highly regarded doctors in the appropriate specialty to diagnose her as having bad reactions (causation not correlation)?
I ask because I have family members who claim medical advice not to get the flu vaccine for similar reasons. However, what they say about the advice makes zero sense to someone with a basic understanding of the vaccine and the immune system. I suspect they get the advice from the same doctor who prescribes them antibiotics for the common cold.
A doctor in the appropriate specialty is more likely to have dealt with patients who need to be excused from work vaccine requirements.
Herd Immunity for the win
I know for nurses, there can be a medical exemption, and it involves a lot of paperwork, but I don’t know the details. I believe she would have to document the adverse reactions, but if the advice to not get the vaccine came from a doctor/medical professional, that should not be that difficult.
LawyerAnon
I know folks who work as nurses/nurse practitioners who have gotten medical exemption from the flu vaccine. They just had to have a doctor’s letter stating the reason for the exemption and documenting the adverse reactions. These folks do have to wear a mask during flu season.
Anon
Thanks all who responded with what they know about nurses/masks being required/etc – that’s helpful!
Anonymous
There seems to be some incorrect information information here. The only “known definite exclusions” are being an infant under six months and “People with severe, life-threatening allergies to flu vaccine or any ingredient in the vaccine.” Even people with a history of GBS fall into the ‘talk to your doctor’ category. I don’t know what list of ‘known definite exclusions’ she is referring to. https://www.cdc.gov/flu/prevent/whoshouldvax.htm
The flu vaccine is incredibly safe. There’s even an egg-free version for people with severe egg allergy. She’s going to have a hard time finding an employer who accepts that she cannot have the flu vaccine unless she is specifically severely allergic to an ingredient and that ingredient is present in all 4 types of the vaccine. Has she also reacted to the recombinant version? and the nasal version?
Anonymous
In our facility (work in a hospital system) you must either wear a mask in patient care areas or get a flu shot. People wear masks for all kinds of reasons, from “flu shot contraindicated” to “dislike needles” to “don’t want my job to dictate my medical care.”
Woods-comma-Elle
Heading to Toronto for a few days in November – I have been twice, husband has never been, and we are mainly interested in wandering around and experiencing the city rather than doing museums etc. and we are pretty much sorted in terms of activities, but any suggestions for good places to eat/drink? Anything from hole in the wall to fine dining as long as it’s good!
We are staying near Union Station but planning to go to Bloor/Yorkville, Distillery District, Kensington Market etc.
Abby
I got so many nice suggestions from here back in May when I went for my first anniversay! In Distillery District we loved the Spirit of York – fancy cocktails, we stayed way longer than anticipated and it was just a beautiful bar. I surprised my husband with Coffee, Oysters, Champagne (and the champagne room) which was a really cool experience. We had this amazing Persian brunch at Takht-e Tavoos. Another cool bar we went to was BarChef – we sat at the bar and watching the bartender make drinks was a show in itself.
LLBMBA
Torontonian here. I suggest any of the “Alo” restaurants. They have a fancy-ish (but relaxed and fun) at Queen and Spadina. Hard to get reservations but worth checking out (alorestaurant.com). Related is Aloette just downstairs from there, which is more haute diner food, and alo bar in Yorkville. I have not been to Aloette but my brother and sister in law loved it, and the other 2 are great from personal experience.
waffles
Fellow Torontoian. Aloette is amazing. But reservations are important. Went in September and I highly recommend the cauliflower. Best I have ever had.
For quick food, try the St Lawrence market. Peameal bacon (aka back bacon – but we NEVER call it Canadian bacon) on a bun is a Toronto staple.
Better self care?
Any advice? I have a professional but not crazy demanding job and a pre-schooler at home.
Lately I’m just feeling burned out and drained. Like I spend all weekend praying for the work week to start so that I can sit down somewhere quiet for a few hours and then all work week needing a break from the drudgery that is work. I made time for a mani pedi yesterday but it’s just…like absolutely not cutting it as far as relaxing or rejuvenating me. It doesn’t help that coordinating the child care around it is an addition task. I work out at 5am every weekday morning. I eat well. My doctor says my blood looks great. But I’m really feeling exhausted and awful. Help.
Anonymous
Right there with you. Does it help you to work out at 5am or does it exhaust you? Because for me, sleep is everything in terms of getting through rough periods of childcare/parenting. Can you afford to have a sitter come in for a couple of hours on the weekend to give you a break? Or maybe work out at home while the preschooler watches a movie? Cut yourself slack, do whatever you need to do to get through it, and know that it’ll pass and get better. Good luck!
Op
Thanks! I’m already extremely liberal with screen time. It’s the only time I can shower, dress or cook.
Op
I can afford a sitter but I’m overwhelmed at the prospect of researching, finding the person, explaining to my kid who they are and then fielding the inevitable texts about which toy he wants and can he have a cookie.
Anonymous
Have you asked if any of the daycare teachers babysit on the side? That’s how we got our sitter. No intro needed and she already was very familiar with the kids.
Anonymous
I totally relate but I would think of it as putting on your oxygen mask. It’s front-loaded but then you’ll have someone who can help. Also, you don’t mention a partner. Are you a single parent? If not, can your partner chip in more help?
Anon.
Have you asked his teachers at daycare/preschool? They may need some extra income and it’s the easiest process as they already know your kid!
Signed, a mom of a 3 year old whose husbands travels a lot
Anonymous
Are you depressed? This should not be an overwhelming task. Go on Care dot com, pick a few names and meet them. You are assuming worst case. My babysitter never calls me looking for anything.
anon
Oh gosh, this was me until 6 weeks ago. I 100% understand the overwhelm, but trust me that you will feel better just knowing that there is someone you can call, even if you rarely call her.
For me, it was a name from a friend of a daycare teacher. One of the things I love about her is she does NOT text random updates and questions. She’ll send a pic or “hi from [kids]” just to let me know they made it home safely and that’s it. It is glorious. I think it’s fair to tell a sitter what kind of communication you want/expect.
Anonanonanon
Sleep in a couple of days. Or, get up, go to the gym, and just shower and get ready there and enjoy doing so in peace. Take a paid day off and leave your kid in childcare so you can nap, knock out some errands, etc.
I agree that scheduled appointments do not feel like self-care once you have a child. They start to feel like yet another thing you have to stress about getting to on time. I found a nail place near me that doesn’t act rude about walk-ins, and found it much more relaxing to just go when the timing felt right.
Anonymous
If you’re working out at 5am every morning, how much sleep are you getting? You’d have to be going to bed at 9pm to get 8 hours. Can you alter your workout and just work out for a half hour and sleep until 5:30 or 6am. If you’re exhausted, insufficient sleep is the first place to look. And I say that as someone who tried to get by on way too little sleep for way too long and I’m just now starting to see the benefits of a decent sleep schedule.
anon
+1 I have a toddler and have just decided that knowing my body, I have to value sleep over a workout/gym regimen at this point. I’m trying to increase my steps and am active with her (walks, play, dancing, Cosmic kids yoga) but at this stage the sleep I would sacrifice to work out regularly at home or a gym (including the commute to the gym, extra laundry and showers) is not a good trade off for my overall sanity/health.
Also, weekend activities outside the home with the preschooler might be helpful. If we stay home all weekend I feel like all I do is cook and cleanup, then I’m just praying for Monday.
editor
This is sort of beside the point of your question, but something I just want to put out there as it’s bothered me a long time.
I get monthly haircuts, quarterly color, mani/pedis, Botox, massages, belong to two gyms . . .probably more “self-care” that I can’t think of right now. I find NONE of this “pampering” or a luxury. People and the media always refer to it as such. It’s an expense and a chore and a timesuck just like anything else, and I consider it “maintenance” not “pampering.”
Thank you for coming to my TED talk.
blueberries
I do far less maintenance, but I’m with you that maintenance doesn’t feel like a treat to me.
Op
Yes! My darn nails were falling apart. It wasn’t so much a luxury as a requirement to not look awful. (I realize it is, in fact, a luxury and I sound spoiled)
Housecounsel
A hundred percent. Manicures, lashes, etc. are things that make me feel OK going out in the world. They are chores like going to the dentist. Am I privileged? Yes, for sure. Is all this compensating for low self-esteem? Also yes.
Anonymous
Agreed! and thank you for saying this. I do the same–haircuts every 5 weeks, color too, mani/pedi, botox, expensive Pilates studio, cook healthy meals all the time, shop for clothes that flatter but look professional. None of this is a luxury or fun. this is what i have to do to exist in the world as a female.
Lyssa
I get the idea that a lot of this is maintenance (particularly the healthy eating and exercise parts, and I’ll be the first to agree that getting a haircut is a chore), but I’ve got some pretty big reservations about the idea that getting massages or mani/petis is something that a person has to do to exist in the world as female.
I’ve never had a massage, and I’ve had my nails done, maybe 3 times. I’m doing OK.
anon
Yeah, strong agree. I get my hair done quarterly. I exercise because I enjoy it (I’m a competitive amateur athlete). Literally never have I felt like there was an obligation on me as a professional woman to get Botox, mani/pedis, or massages. And I’m not some counter-cultural rulebreaker from a fashion and style perspective.
Anon
+1. I’m lucky enough to be seen as acceptable in the world without makeup (i.e., no blemishes, rosacia, etc.) and I acknowledge that that’s not the case for everyone. But I never get mani/pedis (keep my nails short and polish free, probably should pick at the skin around my cuticles less, and when I feel like it, I paint my nails), and I’ve gotten one massage in my life. I’d do it again cause I like it, but it’s not some required part of being a woman and probably felt so relaxing because it is a rare treat (this was a spa massage, not one for a medical issue).
Anon.
1000% agree.
Ano
Um, sorry, but it’s not. Really, it’s not. I used to do all that – nails, expensive hair coloring and haircuts, exercise classes, facials, etc. A few years ago I got real about my finances and also my time, and realized I was spending a lot of time and money on things that A. did not enrich my life and B. were costing me money I could be saving for my retirement or my kids’ college, and the trade-off wasn’t worth it. Now, I do my own nails at home (no fakes, just my natural nails). I still get haircuts but I do my own at-home hair color (home hair color has advanced a lot in the last few years). I buy clothes on ThredUp or Poshmark only. I took up hiking and cycling and gave up the trendy exercise classes and I am actually fitter (because I can do those things from my house more often) and happier (because I love being outside and actually enjoy these activities). I don’t see “cooking healthy meals all the time” as related to appearance so much as my own health and the health and well-being of my family, but I agree it’s a time commitment. Upshot is, you are buying into a narrative about what women are “supposed” to do – and what women are supposed to look like – and it is a choice. It’s not your fault – there are entire multi-billion-dollar industries built around making women feel insecure and “less than” so they can sell women products and services. End of the day, we all have a choice whether or not we buy into all that or not. My career and marriage have not fallen apart since I stopped paying $260 every six weeks for hair cut and color. I still feel like I look put-together and appropriate. I just don’t spend anywhere from $500-$1000 a month on maintenance to feel like that. If folks on here see all the beauty and fitness upkeep as their self-care and they love engaging in it, that’s fine. I take issue with people saying doing all that is something they “have to” do. No, you absolutely not do not have to do those things. And it is 100% privilege to be able to do those things, both in terms of time and money, and pretending it’s not is kind of a slap in the face to those people out there who can’t even get time off of work and scrape the money together for a basic doctor visit. If you feel downtrodden and put-upon, think about what it would be like to have to choose between shopping for food and taking your kid to the doctor. It could always be worse. Food for thought.
The Beagle has Landed
This. Thank you!
midtown anon
i get the manis and the pedis and the gyms, but only to the point where i enjoy them and they’re not another “thing”. My latest is adding the 10 min chair massage and 10 min foot massage to my pedi. it’s amazing.
I’ve also started subbing an outdoor walk for exercise because i get more joy out of being out in nature.
Anonome
Can I ask what hair color you use? I can’t get my grays to take boxed color. I’ve tried Nutrisse, Color Silk, Preference, Nice ‘n Easy, and Feria.
I’m not paying a ton for professional coloring ($25 for a root touch-up isn’t bad, IMO) but the time and travel to the salon is a pain.
Small Law Partner
Yes this. I hate having to take the time to go to appointments for stuff I can do at home. I actually enjoy things like giving myself a mani/pedi, doing my own lashes, giving myself a mini-facial, etc. And it is way less time consuming and costly, but I really hate the time all that stuff can take up – I’d rather be doing most anything else. The only thing I go to a salon for is a hair cut about every 2 months (I have a pixie).
As fitness goes, you can get a lot out of a cheap gym membership and the outdoors. I go to my alma mater’s gym, and enjoy lifting weights, using the track, and swimming laps in the pool. I also do outdoors stuff to stay in shape and because I enjoy it like surfing, running, cycling, and hiking.
Anon
No, you don’t have to. I get my haircut once or twice a year, mani-pedi never, botox never, cook healthy meals most of the time, shop as infrequently as I can get away, and I still exist (and daresay, thrive) as a female. Don’t get fooled into thinking your luxuries are musts.
LaurenB
Just out of curiosity and not snark at all … what, then, draws you to a fashion blog?
Anonymous
Yeah, I have to push back on this. I get that women are unfairly judged on appearances and your appearance can hold back your career, but I’m 43 and can count on one non-manicured hand the number of manicures I’ve had in my life.
Anon
What on earth!? This is not “what you have to do to exist in the world as a female.” I get my hair cut every few months, have never had it colored and have never had a manicure or Botox or been a member of an expensive Pilates/yoga/barre place. These things are all entirely optional. I do get pedicures, because I enjoy them but if I ever stopped enjoying them I would stop getting them in a heartbeat. They’re a treat not “maintenance.”
Anon
On the other hand, no wonder people get tired with all those appointments to get to. If you have your monthly hair appointment at 11 on Saturday, you can’t really go for a long hike or something really relaxing and restorative because you’re rushing back to the appointment. I recommend scheduling less, not more.
Anon
It is a very privileged view to not consider things like mani/pedis, Botox, massages, and belonging to two gyms not an extra. These are not standard cost of living things. And frankly, I do consider those things pampering. The two times I have had massages, it was so relaxing and I felt amazing. Same with the mani/pedis I get like twice a year.
anon
I don’t think she considers them not “extra,” just that they’re a part of what is, for her, routine maintenance and not spiritually fulfilling/rejuvenating pursuits. It has nothing to do with the cost of the activity and everything to do with the “why.” It’s okay for you to find them pampering, and okay for others not to. Like, doing something because you feel social pressure to do it to “look good” or look put together is not self care. Doing the same activity because you want to prioritize doing something for yourself, that you will enjoy, or that will boost yourself esteem is self care, because prioritizing yourself and boosting your self-esteem are self-care. Making the decision to spend time on yourself, rather than someone else’s needs, is self care. Setting the boundary and saying, “no, sorry, I can’t stay late to do xyz” because you’re honoring your commitment to meet your own needs is self-care.
I also think she’s talking about the idea that “self care” has been co-opted by the beauty industry and this is misleading and leads to some pretty warped expectations. I think we all agree that buying a $45 moisturizer and splashing water on your face in slow motion isn’t going to solve burn out.
Anon
Then don’t do them. They either improve your life or don’t. If they don’t, stop. My objection is to acting like these are things you must do in order to, what, be an acceptable women, exist in society, etc. Lots of people don’t have the time or money to do any of these things and are perfectly happy.
anon
Calm down and maybe re-read what I wrote. Did you reply to the wrong person? I’m just trying to explain what I think that editor was saying. No need to be so hostile– I wasn’t addressing the contention that these are things you must do to be a woman in society, at all.
editor
That’s how it is for you; of course I get that others might have different viewpoints.
Just as an example (and I’m not trying to start an argument here) my frequent, regular massages are deep-tissue, intended to combat osteoarthritis and lessen the effects of strength training so I can continue doing it. I deplore “relaxing” massages. One of my gyms is the Y because it has a pool: also to treat arthritis.
Anon
I think most people would agree that deep tissue massage to treat arthritis is different from Botox and mani-peds (although it’s still a privilege).
Anon
I *love* my hair appointments, because I book them at a spa/salon that plays classical music and sip tea during it.
You don’t feel like it’s self-care because you do way too much, too often, and it’s lifestyle inflation instead of a treat.
DCR
+1
anonymous
I do what is probably less than the bare minimum I can reasonably get away with as a woman in a conservative industry with long hair– I cut my hair max 2x/year and maybe color every other year. I fully do not feel like it’s self care. For some people getting hair done isn’t a treat, ever.
Anon
I didn’t start getting my hair done until my late 30s, so I hear you. I still colour it at home (henna) and only go for hair appointments every few months, but finding a place I like has made it a treat.
If it ever stopped being enjoyable, I would haul out my scissors and the YouTube videos again.
PolyD
I get my hair cut and colored about every 10 weeks or so. Of course, I have a pretty boring hair cut that looks fine anywhere from ~jaw length to just brushing my shoulders.
And the color includes purple streaks along with highlights/lowlights, so that’s fun for me. I think I’m going to get more purple next time.
Anon
+2. I get my (long) hair cut every 3 months or so and it’s definitely a treat. I adore my kids but it’s so nice to have a quiet hour to myself to read and sip tea. I feel the same way about pedicures, which I get every few weeks during the summer months.
Self-care industrial complex
Honestly I think this is somewhat person specific.
Some people are just honestly more genetically lucky than others. My mom is one of those effortless no makeup ever, get their haircut every 6 months at super cuts people and she looks terrific. She is lucky to have a naturally great complexion with pigmentation differentation in her features and hair that has a really cooperative and nice natural texture.
I however have tremendously blotchy and acne prone skin and my hair texture is wildly inconsistent and uncooprative.
Just to look like my mom’s baseline “do nothing” self – I need dermatological help and a quick makeup application. I also need regular salon visits to keep my natural pattern on a good road.
You look at us standing next to each other and think that we are the same level of “done”but she has spent like 1 hr a month on maintenance and I have spent 5 hrs.
It’s really frustrating and something that I hate. My mom comments on my high maintenance-ness (relatively speaking) but then also expressed concern “that I am not taking care of myself” when she seems me with less than groomed hair or skin.
I think that like in a lot of the things the people who are saying that they need very little grooming time because they are just don’t realize that they are genetically lucky to not need it.
Anon
I somewhat agree (though I think messages, botox, mani, pedi are all luxuries and not need). I suffer from excessive hair on my face (inheritance from my dad’s side), my mother did not. She couldn’t understand why it would bother me so much. It is only when she saw how I was teased in school, she took me seriously (it really hurt her to see me in that situation) and took me to a saloon to get rid of the hair. So from then on I have spent lot of money and time to take care of that. It made a huge difference in my life because once the unwanted hair was gone, I could look at some one and speak without fear of inviting questions and comments about my hair. It lifted a huge burden off me. I am sure some people here will say I was too sensitive, shouldn’t care about what others say etc. But I know how important it was for me.
Anon
When you are taking hair and make-up, I do agree that some people are luckily than others. But the original list of “must-dos” included mani/pedis, Botox, massages, and belonging to two gyms. None of those have anything to do with a baseline look.
Anon
I’m not a parent and I know that the demands on parents’ time and energy is unique. However, every time in the past where I’ve always felt like I was never happy where I was (spending the weekend looking forward to the week, the week looking forward to the weekend), it ended up being a time where I was depressed/anxious. Maybe worth doing a couple sessions with a therapist? If it ends up not being anxiety/depression, if nothing else, a therapist might help you make a game plan for how to get over feeling burned out and where you can either let things go or find more outside help.
anon in brooklyn
I can’t say that I don’t feel burned out too, but a thing that helps me a lot is that my husband and I each get one night off a week. Every Wednesday, he handles daycare pickup, dinner, and bedtime solo and I work out, meet a friend, or even just eat at a bar with a glass of wine and a book. I do the same for him another night. It helps me a lot to know that I’ll get that every week, and it doesn’t have to be planned for each time. If your spouse can’t do it, maybe set up a standing babysitter for part of every weekend? The main thing is that it’s a set, regular thing so that you don’t have to coordinate it each time.
Anon
I really love this.
Anonymous
Sounds like you need a break. A Saturday or Sunday (or both) totally off to do your own thing.
Anon
How much are you sleeping? 5 am is really early unless you’re in bed at 9 pm every night. I know others might disagree, but as a generally active but not super fit person (I take the stairs when I can, take walks with my family in the evenings, but haven’t seen the inside of a gym in years) I feel like sleep does a lot more for my mental and physical health than an hour in the gym. I’ve found that the benefits of exercise are more global and the benefits of a full night of sleep are much more immediate. This may not be the season of life for intense exercise.
Op
I’m really obligated to work out or my mood will plummet. I can’t think where else to put it in my schedule. I’m asleep by 10, but my kid does wake up most nights. I sleep until 630 weekends. How are other people doing this?
ElisaR
sadly, we don’t….. i can’t figure out how to work out. my mood has plummeted. but that’s just what it is. i’m exhausted all the time.
Anonymous
I work out three times a week. Monday night yoga, Wednesday after work run (1/2 hr), Friday lunch time personal training session. Try to be active outdoors with the kid at least an hour each weekend day.
Please consider that you are very likely sleep deprived and that is affecting your mood as well. Can you do a shorter HIIT workout and sleep longer? Or move the time of a couple sessions. Maybe move the Friday session to Saturday so you can sleep longer on Friday?
Anon
I go to the gym a few days a week after my kid is in bed and we do a fair amount of exercise as a family on weekend. I like moving my body and usually feel better after I do, but if I had to choose between exercise and sleep I’d choose sleep for sure.
Anonymous
Your mood isn’t great because you are exhausted. At least try waking up at 6 twice a week and doing a quick home workout. You can’t just do everything with no flexibility.
Anon
This. Listen to your body, it’s telling you you need to sleep more!
Anon
I wake up at 4:40 a.m. every day b/c of my job schedule (been doing it forever) & fwiw I aim to be in bed by 9 pm every night. If I’m not asleep by 9:30, it’s a big.deal. 10 pm consistently would be an issue for me. (I’m assuming it you are working out at 5 you are getting up a little before then). Just to give you some context of what other people do that get up early. As my kids get older it is a bummer that my time alone after they go to bed is shrinking, but it is what it is. (One day their bed time will be later than mine! Guess we’ll cross that bridge when we get to it!).
I work out twice a week as a “lunch” at work. We don’t really have a “take a lunch” culture & I would have never done that pre-kids, but, oh well. We also have a whole wellness initiative, so I figure no one can get too upset about it. Also, it turns out no one really knows or cares (I get my work done). (I realize this won’t work for everyone).
NYCer
I exercise twice a week during lunch at work (45 min barre class, so I do not get that sweaty) and both weekend days in the morning (20-40 min run).
EB
I posted a question similar to yours about a year or so ago. I was 5 months postpartum and trying to juggle work, baby, and getting into shape and found I couldn’t concentrate at work. A lot of people asked how much sleep I was getting, and I realized it wasn’t enough. I tried to get to bed earlier for a few weeks, and found a huge improvement. So I would definitely try that if you can.
anonymous
are you getting outside to work out or only in the gym at 5am? Gym workouts are great and sometimes all we can fit in but for my mental health, I have to get outside….running, biking, skiing or just walking . Where do you live? Fall is the best time to be outdoors, but I make it happen every season.
Op
It’s dark here until 6 now. I agree sushine would help but I don’t think it work. I’m only working 8-530 but btween commute and daycare pickup I’m just not able to be outside to workout during daylight.
Anon
That’s a problem…then you need to take Vitamin D
Op
My doctor said I shouldn’t take it, based on my blood test.
Anonymous
Yes, this. I felt this way a few years ago – constantly exhausted, never rested – and had my vitamin D tested and it was really, really low. I hadn’t been getting outside enough in the sunshine and really wasn’t able to at that point. I started a gummy Vitamin D supplement daily and it really turned things around. It’s a low-investment thing to try to see if it helps.
The other thing I would try is magnesium supplementation, right before bed. When my magnesium is low I don’t sleep as well and I get tired a lot easier. There’s a powdered supplement called Calm that I drink once a week or so that works well. My doctor told me that people who drink a lot of plain water, without electrolytes and work out frequently can develop low magnesium pretty easily.
Anonymous
Around this time of year, I find that I need to use my SAD lamp – 15 minutes in the morning without fail. Makes my mind so much more settled.
CPA Lady
Some thoughts:
– Have you had your thyroid levels checked? I was bone tired all the time and it turned out I needed to up my thyroid medication dosage. Now that it’s in the right spot, I actually feel like a human again.
– There is no way I could be waking up at 5 am and not being basically a zombie all the time. I work out twice a week at noon. It’s what I can manage at this season in my life.
– I also take time for myself at least a couple times a week to do things that actually make me feel happy and relaxed. Do you know what those things would be for you? I meet up with friends, do hobbies, etc. Husband does the same.
– Our kid goes to bed by 7:30. It gives us plenty of time to chill every night.
– Are there little things you could do that would be nice to have every day? I make really good cold brew coffee and I have a whole set up with simple syrup and everything. I’m excited to get out of bed each morning because I get to start the day with this delicious coffee.
Never too many shoes...
OP, are you a single mother? I do not see anything in your post either way.
If you are not, I fail to understand why you need a babysitter to plan something to help with your burnout. Call your besties, book a girls long weekend trip and tell your partner that you’re going and then leave him to figure it out.
Op
My partner has a monster commute and is currently on his way home from a thee day golf trip. (Second trip in six months ; the first was a week long—- I seem to melt down every time he does this.) He’s a pretty great dad (kiddo vastly prefers him to me). He does drop off and bed time most days. But it’s really hard because it means kiddo has to be in bed super late (after 9) and has elaborate routines that I don’t have any say in. My partner also is around on the weekends, but there’s a lot of guilt around taking time to work out then,because it will always result in a guilt trip about why mommy isn’t doing x y z with us. My partner also refuses to commit to a reliable nap time.
Anon
Take a week long trip of your own and tell your partner to get their sh!t together and pull their weight.
anonymous
OP please prioritize yourself…and you do not need to feel guilty about it. Your partner is clearly prioritizing himself. And I don’t know why kiddo is going to bed late after elaborate routines that you have no say in? You seem to be subordinating yourself to your partner, putting their wishes above yours. This is part of the reason why you feel overwhelmed. Please take some time reflect on this and identify some ways to improve this dynamic with your partner…to benefit your mental health.
Anonymous
Yes to the 12:28 and 1:20 comments.
OP, I wish I could give you a hug. I am sorry you’re feeling this way. The situation won’t change unless you change it. When my husband tried to pull the “oh, too bad Mommy can’t go to the park with us!” BS when my son was little I said “Yep, Mommy isn’t going to the park today because she needs to do something important! There’s lots of other things we get to do together though!” and then privately I told him not to do that ever again and that was that. Your own self-care is important and it is not fair for your partner to ask you to martyr yourself to your child when your partner clearly isn’t doing that himself. F that noise. Boundaries, man, boundaries. Figure some out and then set them and stick to them. You are important. Your needs also matter. The only way your needs will get met is if you prioritize meeting them. Regrettably and sadly, no one else in your life is going to help you get your needs met. If you don’t do it for yourself, no one is going to do it for you. All the more reason why you need to get started *today*. Good luck and I’m pulling for you.
Golf Widow
Hi, you are me and I am you. I posted about a year ago about my deep resentment for my husband, who travels for work and goes on numerous golf trips throughout the year. I got some really good responses and hope you will search the archives for the post, which was in October 2018. I almost decided to divorce him over exactly what you have described. You are still in the phase of thinking his behavior is acceptable; I had moved past that into deep seething resentment for his entitlement.
First thing you do: PLAN A TRIP. Bye everyone. Mommy is going to Mexico for the week. See ya. If you have some girlfriends to go with, great. If not, go by yourself. It will still be fun. You absolutely must leave town. It has to happen and it has to happen soon.
Second thing you do: Find a consistent babysitter. I know it’s a lot of work on the front end. IT MUST BE DONE. You have to do it. It’s nonnegotiable. When partner is out of town, call the sitter. Call the sitter every time. At this point I basically never do childcare alone– DH is gone three nights a week, and that’s how often I have the sitter come over. What you’ve described is a family culture where your partner does a lot but never does it ALONE, where you have to be available all 48 hours of the weekend, etc. Nope. If he doesn’t do it alone, you don’t either. Get the sitter. Get several.
You also should find a gym with childcare. Then you don’t have to have “guilt” (which you shouldn’t) over leaving your family for an hour or two so you can work out. Note: Your partner just left your family for three days and has absolutely zero guilt, I can assure you. Why do you feel guilty over two hours on the weekend? That’s not equitable at all. HE HAS BEEN GONE FOR THREE DAYS. Time to take your own share.
Anon
Thanks for sharing this! I was wondering what happened with you.
Anon
Sorry you are feeling this way. I sometimes feel this way and I am single, no kids (I know this doesn’t compare at all to having a baby, but just saying I understand feeling exhausted and stressed and burned out on the drudgery of work and life). I think it’s just that… between demanding jobs and relationships and just life maintenance, we tend to fill all the time we have, no matter what. If I had to keep a kid alive then I’d squish everything else into the available hours. Since I don’t, I have more time for me, but it still ends up being crazy with family, friends, dating, work, volunteering, cultural events and a packed social calendar.
Earlier this year, I had to sit down with myself and stop scheduling stuff. I actually set aside 1-2 weekend days for myself each month where I have zero plans. I block my calendar. I do not interact with humans on those days. It is blissful.
I recognize this is not entirely possible for someone with a partner and a kid, but I do wonder if you could get more of a scheduled break/downtime with a babysitter or your partner taking the baby for awhile. Then don’t plan anything. Don’t think about all the things you have to get done (nails, hair, housecleaning). Just allow yourself to be.
Other things that helped:
How much control do you have over your work schedule? I’ve realized that I have a limit to how many events I “have to show up to” per week. By show up to, I mean be at a place, at a certain time, looking decent. If I have six meetings in one day, I will not want to have plans after work. If I have plans three nights in a row, I would prefer to push essential meetings to afternoons the following day and do solo deep work (of course, this is not always possible, but just saying ideal world here).
Hair and nail appointments would still fit in this category of things I have to show up to. Yes, they’re technically pampering, but it’s the scheduling and the need to be somewhere at a certain place and leave work at a certain time that adds stress. Not saying don’t do them, but consider them blocks on your schedule that may cause anxiety and try to schedule a lighter week otherwise if you can.
If you are doing personal stuff at work (who isn’t?) try to block that out into one 30-min time crunch instead of doing one-off tasks throughout the day. Compartmentalizing really helps. If you are constantly switching from work tasks to home stuff or emotional labor or whatever, you will feel behind on everything.
Doing “comfort hangs.” Like literally, invite people over to show up in pajamas/athleisure. I’ll happily make brunch or order in as long as everyone knows there are zero expectations on appearance, because I’ll be in sweats. It feels freeing to not have to be “done.”
Like you, I feel workouts are essential. But sleep is also essential. I can get up at 5 for a workout, but I must be IN BED at 9 PM the night before. If that is not possible, I would pick and choose. Maybe it means I only work out 3 days a week but I get 8 hours of sleep every night. Or maybe workouts are more important and you catch up on sleep on the weekends.
Anyway, I hope this is helpful, and I hope you feel better soon! This is a tough time, but it will get easier.
midtown anon
i’m adopting comfort hangs :)
Anon
:)
Update
Last week, I posted about online dating and whether its typical to discuss other dates you meet through apps. I don’t use apps, but I met a man through a friend and we dated for a month. He wanted to be exclusive “gardening” but would mention other dates to me and even shared personal information (that one’s dog died), which made me very uncomfortable.
Big THANKS to everyone who weighed in and said its not normal behavior. It was a red flag to me, so we discussed it and broke things off. It became clear to me we want different things. He tried gaslighting me that its somehow mature to discuss other dates and be open and honest (no thanks). Then, he said he didn’t think of me the same as women from apps because we didn’t meet on the app, and that he mostly talks to women on apps but doesn’t meet them. Definitely attention-seeking behavior. What is the point of chatting with women and not actually meeting them, unless its for an ego boost?
The final straw was he communicated his childish belief in magical sparks/love at first sight. He said while he’s grown to care for me, he didn’t feel that spark and so he feels compelled to search out other women to find his dream girl. Nope! Just nope!
I was somewhat surprised to learn this side of him, but I’m glad I did after only a month. I said we want different things, and that’s that. He texted me yesterday that a date canceled. I blocked him. Enough bizarre behavior, thankyouvermuch!
Anonanonanon
Good for you!! Definitely the type that needs his ego stroked all the time. Sounds like the type that would cheat on his wife when they have a 3-month-old baby at home because the baby is getting all of the attention and the “spark” just isn’t there.
Ellen
I am glad we could be of help! YAY to the HIVE! I knew he was strange when he wanted you to reserve gardening just for him, while he continued to look for women on line. What kind of doosh is that? I am glad you do not appear hurt from his manipulative behaviour — after all a month of 1 guy could get your panties all up in knots if you fell for the BS! I say great that you JSFAMO! YAY!!!! And to the rest of the hive, always be carful of men that say what you want to hear just to get you to take your panties off for them. They are as fake as a $3 bill, Dad says!
NOLA
Oh Lord. Yes, the whole talking/texting with women and not actually meeting them is a thing on dating sites. I don’t get it. It swear, it’s *maybe* half and half of the ones I actually meet. So glad you bit the bullet and ended things. I do look for, at least, attraction and chemistry and have declined a second date if there’s nothing there, but I wouldn’t bother gardening with someone I didn’t feel that with. He sounds like a mess.
Update
Of course, he tried convincing me we should still garden from time to time. There’s chemistry, just not the magical sparks of a fairy tale romance. Headdesk.
Anon
So he wants nooky and no commitment? How charming.
emeralds
Wow, sounds like you missed out on a real catch. /sarcasm
Anon
I text with people on dating apps to decide if I want to meet them. I do not make that decision based on profile alone, unless there’s something exceptionally compelling in the profile. I’d rather take the chance on someone whose profile is only mildly interesting and see how the conversation flows than only swipe right on people who are immediately awesome. I’ve definitely had some surprises that way — the guy I’m seeing now I swiped right on because we had one interest in common, but the rest of his profile was very very blah. We ended up with a great text convo, met up, and hit it off. I would not have gone out with him based on the profile alone. So yeah, there’s a lot of people I text and don’t meet, but not for bad reasons.
NOLA
I agree, but seriously, these guys want to text for weeks and weeks and never suggest going out. There’s a guy I’m interested in now and we’re both really busy, but no suggestion to go out this past weekend, or get together, despite the fact that I think we would like each other. It’s weird.
Anon
I don’t get the whole texting but not meeting thing either. Like half the people I know on dating apps, but men and women, do this. I’m hate the apps so much that I have a hard time forcing myself to be on them even though I try to meet up with the vast majority of people I communicate with on them.
How Long
Good for you! And texting later ok to talk more about other days. You dodged a bullet with this one!
Worry about yourself
Ah yes, the old “I’m keeping my options open, but don’t worry, I’m not sleeping with anyone else” line. I bought it when I was younger, but now I’m pretty sure it was BS. And I won’t forget “I identify as poly; I might settle down and become exclusive with someone if she was my dream girl . . .” but it was very clear I was not this person’s “dream girl.” Nope.
Anonymous
I guess I don’t see how the exclusive gardening arrangement is really any different than “I’m just not that into you, but you’ll do for now”.
Anonymous
It’s no different at all.
One of my single friends read some book that talked about whether or not you are “placeholder” or a “game changer” in a man’s life. Men will keep searching for their “game changer” until they find her. OP was lucky – this joker told her straight-up she was just a placeholder. A lot of men won’t be upfront about it. Now, she gets to stop wasting her time and move on to better men and he gets to keep looking for his sparks-flying dreamgirl. Win-win situation.
Worry about yourself
That’s a really good, concise way to put it. I knew about being a placeholder, I’ve been in situations where I was obviously a placeholder and I’ve been in situations where it wasn’t super obvious at the time (or I was in denial and he never admitted it) but in hindsight I most likely was, but I like the advice to find a relationship where you’re not only NOT a placeholder, but you’re someone’s game-changer.
Anonymous
Good for you, you definitely dodged a bullet on that one! What a weirdo. Next!
Anonymous
Thank you for the update! His responses are laughable. I’m just imagining him saying them and you going “How unfortunate for you to feel that way.” *block*
Anonymous
My husband converted to Judaism to marry his ex-wife. He is not religious and didn’t grow up in a religious home, and his ex-wife wasn’t particularly religious, but wanted her kids to be Jewish and this together with the family dynamic resulted in him having to convert if they were to get married. They had a Jewish wedding and eventually got divorced within a couple of years (and didn’t have any kids) and she now has a kid with another non-Jewish guy and he didn’t convert/they are not married as I think she ultimately decided it was less important than she originally thought.
I am also not religious and it would have felt disingenuous to me to pretend to be (and a bit disrespectful to the people who are members of that religion) and obviously I haven’t had to make this decision as both my husband and I are happily areligious now, but I would have found it hard to swallow. He gets that, but explained that at the time his view was very much ‘I am not religious anyway, what’s the big deal, it matters a lot to her and it doesn’t matter to me’. For him it was less a religious thing and more a cultural thing, which is how he describes his ex-wife also having looked at it (since she was not exactly devout anyway).
Whether it is a dealbreaker, I suppose comes down to the reasons – if you were to have kids and he wanted them to be Jewish, would that be ok with you? If he did want that, you would probably have to convert (I believe the maternal bloodline is relevant here for Judaism in particular). If you didn’t, but he still wanted you to do it just because, would you be ok with that? You don’t have to believe in it even if you do convert but obviously that involves effectively lying, and would you be comfortable with that?
Suit Recs
I need to buy a black suit, probably a jacket with pants and skirt. I’m very much a pear, and my dress pants are all a curvy fit. I also prefer pants with a bit of stretch (I tend to fluctuate weight around my hips/stomach, and it’s nice to have a bit of leeway there).
Where do you recommend looking for a suit? I’m willing to invest in something of good quality, so budget is not that much of a concern for this. In DC, if any particular recs for here.
Anonanonanon
I’m in the DC area and I have been really happy with my Nordstrom Trunk Club stylist when I ask for specific things like what you’re suggesting. I bring this up because they also offer in-person sessions at their trunk club location in DC.
Sal
I had a good experience there too.
Anonymous
You could try Talbots seasonless wool. Has jacket, skirt, pants in curvy fit and sheath dress. Wears well based on my experience.
Anonymous
Lafayette 148?
Anon
The “cancel” culture has arrived at work. I’m a newly minted GC for a large(ish) company. Since I’m new to the city, firm lawyers constantly reach out for lunches. I always say yes…it’s just good networking. In the last 2 months, I’ve had 3 attorneys cancel these lunches at the last minute because something came up. Of course I understand that things happen (and full confession – I give a bigger pass to litigators who are at the mercy of the other people), but come on. These cancellations throw me and my schedule off for a number of reasons. I find myself scrambling for lunch (I work at a building with no cafeteria and don’t pack if a lunch is planned) and I miss my lunch work out (OT class that gets booked unless you reserve ahead). And it’s not just cancelling one lunch – they go on to be flaky and unresponsive when I ask (nicely) to give me some other dates that could work for them.
This is particularly disappointing because all 3 lawyers are women in the early part of their careers. I’m not extrapolating to all women or all younger lawyers, but I really would’ve loved to have given work to these women, but they’re not going to make the cut. I kind of want to give this feedback to them directly, but I think that would be crossing the line.
Anon
That’s not what cancel culture means. You’re talking about flakiness. Cancel culture means “cancelling” people (shunning them socially, having them lose professional opportunities) because of past misbehavior that’s recently come to light.
Yep
Yes, sorry that’s what I meant. I didn’t even make the connection to cancelling people. I meant cancelling plans.
anonymous
People manage their schedules on the fly now….that’s the pace of business too…..when I accept a meeting or lunch invitation, I communicate that I am open on that date/time and please confirm the day before. This way, I am not expecting any of these ‘dates’ to happen unless I get a confirmation the day prior. You are correct – many of them get cancelled vs. confirmed. Do you have an EA? If so, they should working through your EA to schedule and confirm all meetings.
OP
I have an EA, but I wouldn’t use her for this. I hear you, and it’s good feedback, but if this is what is required, I just would rather not schedule lunches at all. It’s too much hassle, and I prefer certainty in my schedule.
Anonymous
I might manage my schedule on the fly, but this is even a more mandatory meeting than when the visiting head of my firm “requests my presence” at a meeting. It’s like the mob: it’s an offer you can’t reuse (and don’t dare try to cancel — there is no good reason except appearing before a judge that can hold you in contempt).
Anon
That’s too bad. One way to give the feedback less directly as to follow up with an email saying I am interested in meeting with you but want to avoid last-minute cancellations. Is there a time for you that tends to be more reliably available like a breakfast meeting?
Z
When you said “cancel culture” I thought this was going somewhere entirely different than people actually cancelling meetings.
As a woman in the early part of her career, I wouldn’t dream of cancelling lunch with someone at your level. I think you should give them the feedback, flaking isn’t a good look.
Anonymous
Holy hell! I didn’t think that one cancelled on a GC, especially if one is a subordinate. Not sure I’m ready for this world.
anon
I think OP is talking about people outside her org.
Anonymous
Subordinate or junior in any sense (or peer even). Clients > lawyers in firms
Anon
Honestly I would just never schedule anything social or helpful with them again. You flake, you’re out, unless you had a legit reason and an apology and follow up to reschedule.
Anonymous
This is totally shocking to me. I’m a BigLaw partner and I’ve never had a GC have lunch with me and if I did, I’d never cancel day-of. I’m honestly curious — do they ever say why they are cancelling? Like what came up with is better or more mandatory than this (like if I wanted an associate to be on a call at noon (unlikely), and they said, I’m having lunch with BigCo’s GC, I’d be envious of that and certainly not make them and our firm look bad by demanding that they cancel). Do they say “My boss is in a coma and I need to cover this deposition,” which I’d forgive, or just mumble “I’m so sorry that I have to cancel” via e-mail at 11:37?
OP
I’ve gotten some version “something came up that I can’t get out of” around 10:30 or 11.
I’m really ok if something happens. That’s life. I don’t need to be “wooed”, just treated with the same respect that I give to other people’s schedules. The aggravating factors are: last minute cancellations (do it the night before, so I can be prepared!) and not being proactive in rescheduling.
Do law firms coach their associates on this?
Cat
If a law firm associate doesn’t understand that a lunch commitment with a GC — the person who has the power to decide to give their firm work or not and whose schedule has many demands on it — is something that should not be lightly cancelled, they are astronomically clueless.
Anon
+1! These are people at firms who are either trying to get your business or hoping to get a job at your company, I assume. I would move everything possible to get to that lunch, and can see cancelling short of being caught in court or a sick kid. If I was forced to cancel, I would be the one reaching out to try to reschedule.
I 100% think it is ok to judge these people and to have it impact your impression of them. And I think you would be doing them a service by letting them know how it is viewed. From a practical perspective, I would stop making an effort to reschedule. My view has always been that if one person has to cancel, it is on them to make the effort to reach out and reschedule (absent some horrible situation, like a death or serious illness in the family).
Anonymous
This is why women aren’t partners in law firms. NOTHING is more important than making lunches like this. “You have a lunch meeting with a GC of LocalBigCompany.” Your schedule is busy then.
If other women can make time for dental cleanings, OB visits, babies, maternity leave, pumping, sick kids, etc., these women should be able to beat back their schedule creep for a LUNCH at LUNCHTIME with a GC of LocalBigCo.
OP
Oh stop. This is not why women don’t make partner. Don’t go down that rabbit hole.
Anonymous
I’d broaden this to “people.” People don’t make partner when they are technically proficient at doing tasks but make spectacular errors in judgment about things like this.
OMG.
Anonymous
That is annoying and I def wouldn’t give them work. Also, that is nothing to do with what cancel culture is, you’re using the term incorrectly.
anon
I mean… a lot of lawyers other than litigators are at the mercy of others–clients, regulators, timelines on a deal. If these women are in the early part of their careers, they have even less control over their schedules because they are beholden to senior associates/partners, and you should know this. Also, are you really jumping at the chance to give work to young women you don’t seem to know well? I don’t get it. From their perspective, they are being asked to choose between a lunch with someone they don’t know and meeting the real, current, tangible demands of the people who are actually giving them work and signing their paychecks. So yea, your feedback here would be crossing the line. It sounds like you are (rightfully) annoyed but want to go on a power trip to make your point.
OP
?? There’s always one oddly aggressive response.
anon
Do you disagree with anything I said? I really don’t think it was more aggressive than your post. It was somewhat unclear from your post what the scope of these lunches were or who you were meeting with. People seem to be assuming that the women are turning down obvious opportunities to develop business with you, but it just doesn’t seem reasonable to me that anyone would cancel such an obviously important opportunity unless there was no other choice. Maybe you can explain more.
Anon
Um no, that’s not weirdly aggressive? You sound like you don’t take criticism well.
Doodles
I disagree. I’m a senior associate and I’m 100% positive that if I told a partner that I had a lunch with a GC/potential client that day, that partner would make sure I could go. Partners at my current and past biglaw firms actively encouraged business development. They also know how important your reputation is and cancelling plans with potential clients is a great way to ruin your reputation in the business/legal local community. There are almost always others who could cover for me for an hour. Again, barring an actual court emergency appearance.
Anonymous
+1
I’m in private practice and I would seriously question the judgment of an associate who either blithely cancelled on a CG (or any client or potential client). They should raise this conflict when confronted with any schedule challenge. Anyone I worked with would see how making that associate cancel reflects badly on the firm and makes it seem like we hire idiots who don’t value relationships and can’t make good decisions. That makes all of us look very bad.
anon
I don’t disagree with your second sentence at all. That’s why OPs post doesn’t make a ton of sense to me. If these meetings are so obviously beneficial to these women, why are they skipping them? Are they really just that dumb and flaky? Is OP really so eager to give work to women she doesn’t know? Sounds like something is being lost in translation.
Anonymous
HA! I worked in BigLaw and the partner I worked with daily would have made absolutely sure I could not make this lunch. No f’ing way would I ever have even told her about it. She’d have pulled out the stops to be sure it got canceled. Glad you had a different experience, I guess.
What?
I disagree completely. I worked on unpredictable cases with short timelines. If I told any partner that I had lunch with an actual GC, they would tell me to go! The lunch would be shorter, but I would show up, pay, apologize profusely for having a shorter lunch, humble brag about how integral I am in this sudden urgent case, and reschedule another get together. Not even a question.
Anonymous
You don’t have to put up with this. Attorneys are courting you for business. If they cancel last minute–that’s on them and an indicator of a choice for you as to whether you would like to hire them for business. Don’t let others set your priorities for you. If worried about lunch cancellations, substitute a mid-morning coffee–that way you can still get your workout in. Or maybe just meet with potential suitors in your office. As GC, you control how and where people seeking work from you meet with you. You could even go so far as to say that you have a no-cancellation policy–meaning if X sets an appointment and then cancels within 24 hours–no work will be assigned to X or X’s firm.
anon
I expect a GC to cancel on me because genuinely more important things come up for them. Absent a genuine major issue (like my own illness or my kid’s illness and partner and backups aren’t available), I wouldn’t cancel. If I had to cancel, I’d be profusely apologetic and accommodating for the rescheduling.
When I was an associate in a busy biglaw transactional practice with lots of emergencies, the partners I worked with would still have found a way to let me leave for a couple hours to have lunch with a GC like you.
I don’t understand why you’re experiencing such flakiness. If they’re flaky while they’re trying to get business, it’d make me worry that I’d have to chase them quite a bit for work if I hired them.
I’d move on to other firms.
it's just lunch ffs
I’m sure it’s mandatory to attend lunches with GCs until your law firm provider is unavailable to do your emergency project/work because it has to attend lunch with another GC.
Anna
I juat Got a great hobbs hackness blazer tweed like material. The color is petroleum blue. I Will wear it with blue Jeans or blue trousers. But what color top would you wear? Black makes it look dead and blue is hard to match. Tia
ElisaR
crisp white
Anonymous
I would do a light grey, cream, or maybe a pale pink.
Anon
I would put this blazer up next to every single item in my closet to see what pops – greys, pinks, tan, cream, pale yellow – because that’s the best way to do this.
Anna
Thank you all. I really appreciate it
The original Scarlett
FWIW, I find lunch to be too aspirational of a goal. I reserve work lunches for internal networking where everyone understands things come up, and external during the day networking is exclusively a late afternoon coffee (or tea, whatever your pleasure). In your shoes, I’d give those people another chance and just switch to coffee dates.
The original Scarlett
For the cancel culture anon above.
Anonymous
She’s the GC of a major business and these are lawyers trying to get work. They are supposed to be woo-ing her and if they can’t handle making a scheduled lunch date she should just move on from them.
Anonymous
Ditto this — it’s like dating: if people don’t value your time, LISTEN TO THAT.
The original Scarlett
I understand that. Still doesn’t change things, IME, so rather than keep trying to fit a square peg in a round hole, make it easier on yourself.
Anonymous
If a GC ever asked me to lunch, I’d make sure I was there. What in my life as a lawyer will ever be that important?! If I had an associate get asked to lunch by a GC, I’d make sure that that lunch happened.
Aggie
I’m a litigator and have had to cancel on GC’s three times in my career. Two were hearings that extended from morning docket through lunch and the third was after I broke my arm walking my youngest to school that morning.
I sent a colleague to the lunches on the first two and rescheduled the third after apologizing multiple times. There is NOTHING more important than client development in large firms and there are always warm bodies to send to lunch.
Anon
I hate this advice. I’m going to eat lunch every day. Yes, going to lunch takes 60-90 minutes, as opposed to the 45 minutes I would take if eating by myself. But I’m not going to get coffee every afternoon. Nor do I find a 15 minute coffee a helpful or meaningful way to get to know someone.
If someone wants my business, they can make 90 minutes for a lunch meeting. If they don’t have time for that, then they don’t have time to do work for me either.
The original Scarlett
I think my point is being missed, I don’t like work lunches for a lot of reasons, one of which is the cancel issue, so I don’t do them and *I* prefer coffee. If you like lunch, by all means schedule it. If you’re in the “power” position, you get to pick what works for you.
anonymous
Wow such hostility..the idea is that you’d spend longer than 15 minute getting coffee.
780
Nothing this person said is hostile. Why do so many people object that something is hostile just because they don’t like the advice.
Not everyone loves coffee dates. If you are the GC of a company, you get to dictate the terms on which you meet firm attorneys. If they don’t like it, they don’t get your business. That is how the world works.
anonymous
What are you talking about? I didn’t object that it was hostile because I didn’t like “the advice.” She didn’t give advice–just reacted really harshly to advice that won’t work for her but was reasonable and well-meaning. Of course she can set her terms– no argument there. The original Scarlett was just making a suggestion for how she could stem her frustration, that’s all.
Anonymous
I have spent five nights over the last two weeks talking with my next door neighbor. We text to see if the other person is free, then one of us goes to the other person’s couch and we stay there for hours. Like, 8 pm to 1 am. Just talking – nothing physical, although that might come eventually and I’m ok with that. The late nights are starting to take a toll on me, though. How do I set better boundaries – say, 8 pm to 10 pm? I feel like a kid again with the start of a new crush, but I can’t do the teenage hours. We’ve gone out to dinner once and have gone for a few walks over the last few months, so maybe we need to shift out of our houses for these talks?
Anonymous
Around 10pm just go home – emphasize that you had fun hanging out but you’re wiped and need to sleep. If he’s at your place, same thing -‘it’s been great chatting but I need to kick you out because I’m wiped and need to head to bed. Rain check for tomorrow though.’
Anonymous
In an identical situation, I ended up marrying the guy. Before that, we actually agreed to a “curfew” on weeknights so we could get enough sleep.
Anon
Just….leave at 10 pm? I don’t understand how this is even a question. “This has been so much fun, but I’ve got to get to bed now, hope we can do this again soon.”
Anonymous
Huh? “Oh look it’s ten time to go bye”
How Long
I always do this at the start of a relationship and always find it fun for a while. I agree with the wording from some of the others but also will say that this tends to be a temporary phase that I’ve often looked back on fondly.
Anonymous
+1 to looking back on this stage fondly
Anon
Get up and go home, or realize that you’re enjoying these and they’re more important to you than sleeping and make adjustments accordingly.
LaurenB
This sounds like an Ask-the-Manager question. “How do I set a boundary?” You use your words, and say goodbye at 10 pm. Unless the guy is holding you hostage, what is the issue here?
J
My parent has (finally!) agreed that it’s time for a hearing aid. Does anyone have a recommendation for a good audiology practice in DC or suburbs? I’ve also heard from a friend in Philly, who got his hearing aids from Costco. Any anecdata about that option in the DC area?
Jane
Not in DC, but my mom did hearing aids at Costco because their return policy gave her much more time to test them out. And she kept working with them for a year (yes, a year) and tried 3 different models before she found ones that work well. She found the ones that are partially outside the ear worked a LOT better than the ones fully inside the ear.
We learned people expect hearing aids to be like glasses: measure the loss, get the aid, fix the problem and you’re back to full hearing. They don’t work like glasses. The fitting issue is more difficult and the brain literally has to retrain on how to hear with the new device. It’s a tedious process, but totally worth it if your parent will stick with it. My mom said they aren’t super comfortable, but they’re not uncomfortable (akin to wearing a bra).
Don’t go into it expecting thesame as getting new glasses. It’s more like doing PT after an injury. But it will get better if you keep working on it.
Anon.
This is really good advice on expectation setting for both you and your parent. Same experience with my grandmother.
Anonymous
Renee Moneyhun in Gaithersburg. Disclosure, I went to her to have my hearing checked multiple times (suspected loss) and had a great experience / felt very comfortable but have not had to get equipment yet so YMMV on that aspect.
GCG
FWIW, my Dad originally purchased hearing aids at a premium at a local place because they offered more included service (cleaning, battery changes, etc.) but switched to Costco for his latest pair because he did not find the local place’s added services to be much of a value. He’s so far pleased with the Costco hearing aids.
GCG
Editing to add that my Dad is not in DC. The point, however, is that he has been pleased with the Costco options.
ElisaR
looks like the link to this dress doesn’t work
MOH
Hi ladies, I am planning a bachelorette trip to Banff for next year (either early August or early September). Is 4 days 3 nights enough time? Is it silly to stay in Banff/Canmore and try to get a shuttle to Lake Louise? Any recommendations on location, for restaurants and activities (yoga etc) would be great. I am planning one day in Banff (town, gondola, park distillery for dinner) and one day in lake Louise (lake minnewanka, do the flat hike around the lake, high tea at Fairmont Lake Louise). It will probably be about 10-15 people so I am try to coordinate the logistics and estimate expenses way in advance. Thanks for any tips and happy Monday!
Anonymous
Shuttle to Lake Louise is fine. Not worth switching hotels for only a night or two. Canoeing on the Lake is gorgeous if anyone is outdoorsy.
I loved the spa at the Fairmont Banff Springs.
Anonymous
Thanks!
Anon
4 days is WAY too long for a bachelorette party. Don’t make people take two days off work unless you know for an absolute fact that they want to. Otherwise, Banff is beautiful and should be nice no matter what you do.
Anon
I’m totally on board with destination bachelorette parties, and I still think 4 days sounds crazy. I would plan 3 days/2 nights, and fully expect that some people are going to arrive late on Friday and most everyone is going to leave by around noon on Sunday to drive to the airport for a flight home.
Anonymous
Are all your friends millionaires? I would do arrive Friday, depart Sunday, just stay in Banff. And unless you’re in Vancouver or Calgary I wouldn’t do this at all it’s absurdly expensive and inconvenient.
Anon
+1. Unless you’re local-ish, this trip doesn’t make sense for most people. Banff is very expensive and quite remote. You’re probably going to get mostly cancellations unless (which you haven’t shared), you know for a fact that everyone can/wants to make it.
LawyerAnon
I would check with your group to see whether they prefer 4 days or 3. Staying in Banff and getting the shuttle to Lake Louise is an easy trip as long as you reserve your shuttle in plenty of time. We did high tea at Lake Louise and the view was amazing!
Also, if you go to the Fairmont Banff Springs in the evening, their bar/lounge is very cosy. It is a fun place to hang out. And for something campy and fun, I’d check out Cows ice cream in the town of Banff. The ice cream is good, and the folks I traveled with to Banff had fun picking out goofy T-shirts.
OP
Thanks!! The bride loves ice cream.
Anonymous
FWIW, I spent part of my honeymoon at the Fairmont Lake Louise and found it to be completely overrun with really pushy tourists. The views are fantastic, but it’s hard to have a nice dinner when people are crowding around you for selfies and bumping your table. If you’re cutting the party down to 3 days, that’s the first thing I’d cut.
Anon
I’ll be the dissenting opinion – I’m actually not a huge fan of destination bach parties and only go to them for sisters/BFFs, but if I were going all the way to Banff (not an easy airport to reach, especially from the east, and technically international so it costs significantly more than domestic flights), I would want to stay there for at least three nights. Unless the guest list is exclusively people who live in the PNW, 2 nights feels comically short to me for a place that’s such a trek to get to.
Anon
Sure, but most people who aren’t sisters/BFFs probably won’t go at all if it’s that hard to get to. I love my friends, but if someone who wasn’t BFF invited me to spend 3-4 nights in a remote, expensive area socializing with 13 other girls I don’t know at my own expense, that would be a firm no.
Anon
(I totally know this won’t be the case for everyone but ) – I personally agree. Plus, this is a destination I would actually be super excited about relative to some of the other typical bach destinations.
OP
Thanks. I have been to a zillion bach parties and also agree. Very psyched about the location.
Anon
OP, as long as there is no expectation that the entire group of 10-15 will join you, and absolutely no judgement against anyone who chooses not to go, do whatever you want to do. I appreciate that you’re estimating cost now so those who do want to attend have plenty of time to plan for it. I hate beach vacations and would love to do a girl’s trip to Banff, and if I’m going, I’d want to actually make my travel time worthwhile. As an over-30, this sounds like the kind of trip I’d want to go on, vs spending a not-insignificant amount of money to go to Nashville/Las Vegas/beach in Mexico for 2-3 nights where more than half the time is spent drinking and the other half being hungover.
Anon
Fair point. I was assuming that they all live in Canada, and are coming from Vancouver or Calgary or other smaller cities in that area … or maybe the PNW. There is no way I would travel to Banff (or anywhere that was not a major airport) for a bachelorette party. I also hate when they are in expensive places, because it’s not like I get to pick the things I want to do when we are there.
But there is also no way I’m going to a 4-day bachelorette party. That is way too much together time, especially when I likely don’t know everyone and don’t really get any say in what we are doing.
OP
Thanks! We are def not canadian and most coming from the East Coast (though some from Cali which seems like an easier weekend trip). It’s for my sister. She has a lot of friends, so if the location/ expense is as turn off for people, that it fine, and it seems like it will be easier with a smaller group. I assumed we would fly into Calgary as this seemed easiest. I hear what people are saying re the time but I don’t see how there is an option besides staying for at least 3 nights.
I want to give people an itinerary and a sense of the cost so they can make an informed decision about coming or not. :)
Anon
Are you ok with having a very small party? I would not fly from DC for a 4 day Bach party, nor would most people I know. If you are ok with a small party, that’s not a big deal. If your sister is going to be disappointed that most people can’t come, I would reconsider somewhere more convenient. But part of this comes from my bias that I don’t feel like I actually get to see a location when I travel for a bach party, so I just don’t really care where it is.
OP
yeah, it will make my job 10x easier. The bride picked the spot, I am merely executing.
Anon
This bachelorette sounds like my worst nightmare. 4 days is way too long and the expense and time to get there is way too much (unless everyone is coming from an easily accessible place). This might change if the bachelorette party is really like the bride + sister + best friend (or something like that) who just want an excuse to take a trip together.
Housecounsel
I am so glad I am old enough that I missed the destination bachelorette thing.
Anon
People are starting to do it for second weddings now though…I’m old enough (37) that I escaped it the first go-round, but have been invited to two destination bach parties for women who are getting married for the second time.
anon
I have found those more fun because we’re all older now and our idea of a good time is pool + cocktails + spa + nice dinner instead of going to Cozumel, doing shots and yelling “WOOOOOO!” in crappy bars while wearing p*nis headbands.
Anon
Yeah, I’ll be another voice of dissent. I go to a ton of Bachelorette parties, and honestly, my perspective is, if you’re going to do a destination, make it a cool one/one I want to go to (not NOLA for the 6th time…), then it’s a cool trip + bachelorette. I’d ask for time, but would do 4 days if people want that (I would!).
Anon
+1 We normally treat our bach parties as an excuse for a girls’ trip and normally invite people not in the bridal party, so there is not a ton of pressure to go if you’re a bridesmaid. (I actually went on one bach party where only 1/5 bridesmaids was able to come and we had 8 people.)
OP
exactly! :)
Anon
I would expect a smaller crowd, due to the time off work and cost, but I would imagine the people who attend will be really psyched about it. I’m very over the “48 hours in NOLA/Vegas/Nashville/Austin” thing and would LOVE to take a longer trip to a beautiful place Banff for a close friend’s celebration.
Anon
I’d like to create a better work from home setup without spending too much money. I live in a one bedroom condo so my work area will be part of my living room. I found a desk I like but am not sure what to do about the desk chair. Does anyone have a suggestion for a desk chair that’s comfortable enough to sit at for long periods of time but that does scream “office”? Any other tips on building a workspace that doesn’t look too much like an office? Any tips for trying to keep home feeling like home even though I’ll also be working there one day a week?
Anon
I use a velvet, upholstered dining room chair from HomeGoods when I work from home.
C2
If you’re only working from home one day a week, do you need a desk/office chair? I work from home 3ish days a week and am still using a dining chair, albeit one that happens to be at a good height/seat depth for me. Otherwise, there are a lot of options for task chairs that don’t roll and scream office. Find a desk with a very streamlined look – sort of like a console table and make it fit in with your decor by accessorizing with few accent items, including a decorative box on it that you can keep any “work supplies” in – pens, notepads, cords, mouse, keyboard. If you have any cords that you don’t want to plug in and remove every time, use stick-on cord keepers along the back to keep them from just dangling free. I keep a second screen out, but I do tuck it in the closet when I’m entertaining.
Anon
CB2 and West elm have cute desk chairs.
Anonymous
Has anyone tried the new merino Rothys? Would they get ruined by a commute on the subway, particularly the camel color?
Anonymous
To piggy-back, anyone have a Rothy’s code to share? Interested in responses about the merino, too. TIA.
Anonymous
Please report back on the merino!
https://share.rothys.com/x/EnPz0X
anon
Following because I’m interested in the merino as well. Love the original. Obligatory referral code: https://share.rothys.com/x/mQ9o7f
anon a mouse
I’ve ordered but they haven’t shown up yet. I do plan to treat with scotch guard or something similar when they do.
Referral code:
https://share.rothys.com/x/QJL2zD
PolyD
Going to do a little shopping enabling. If you are looking for a nice dress with SLEEVES, and not too short, check this out at Ann Taylor Factory:
https://factory.anntaylor.com/3/4-sleeve-sheath-dress/505780?skuId=28198611&defaultColor=4775&catid=cat3960034&selectedColor=4775
I bought one in green and one in black plaid. For reference, I’m 32DD, 5’4″ and about 138 pounds. The size 4 fit me well – 6 would have been okay, but was a little bit big on top. The skirt comes to just past the bottom of my kneecap, but somehow doesn’t look too dowdy. The v-neck isn’t too deep, I don’t think – I don’t need to pin it, but easily could for extra security.
This is a dress that works for the rare among us – small frame/shoulders, but a bit busty. It’s also very soft fabric, but doesn’t show lumps and bumps (at least not with tights on) and I think it’s lined (can’t remember). The ruching at the waist camouflages the belly and gives me a nicer waistline. Seems like it would be decently warm without any kind of jacket or cardigan for at least 50-60 degree weather, depending on your cold tolerance.
I need to stop shopping, but if they made this dress in a nice maroon or mustard, I’d totally buy another one.
Lovely dress
Thank you! The dress is beautiful!
Anon
That dress is gorgeous, and pre-pregnancy, my body was a lot like yours (just taller – 5’8, 150 lbs, 32DD). If I had any idea of what my body will look like in four months, this would be on its way to me.
PolyD
It is pretty stretchy…
Anonymous
Oooooo I am buying
Lots to Learn
Curious if anyone has dealt with shipping cars across the country. My daughter goes to school in the northeast and is going to be doing an internship in the west for three months and will need her car. It’s a 36+ hour drive each way, so I’m considering shipping the car instead. But given that it’s going to cost over $1000 each way, I thought I’d ask if there were options I’m not considering. Are there people who would drive it like through TaskRabbit? Should we consider just renting in the location? But she’s not old enough to rent herself (age 20). Any brilliant ideas for us? Thanks!
Anon
Gently, let your daughter figure this out for herself. She can see what makes sense and do the research alone.
Anon
+1. At 20, it’s time for your daughter to come up with some ideas herself.
Also, I would really reconsider driving the car. There are amazing parts of this country that most people never see and a road trip is a great way to see them. I’ve had so many great experiences on road trips. Can your daughter take a week, see stuff along the way? If you don’t want your daughter to drive alone (which I think is crazy at 20), then can you or her dad do the drive with her?
Anonymous
I had the best time as a student with more time than $ driving through the country. It is so amazing and now I work in a city and see nothing at all that differs from day to day.
Anon
+1 Also she should just drive it.
Anon
+3. Granted, this was 15+ years ago, but I did something similar and figured out the logistics myself. I drove with a friend to the location (who just wanted an adventure and paid for their own ticket back) and then on the drive back, took an entire week and stopped in a variety of states to visit friends or touristy places. It was one of the best adventures of my life, and I still have some of the “mix tape” CDs I burned for myself before I left.
Tell your daughter to figure this out herself. One of the big lessons of adulthood is learning how to spend that much time alone with yourself, and learning how to deal with the inevitable setbacks that happen on a cross country road trip.
Anon
Yes, I’ve shipped my car cross-country. It was about $1000. I was a financially comfortable adult at the time. When I was a student doing internships, I always drove my car wherever I needed to have it. I would worry about TaskRabbit because those people aren’t licensed and insured, so you could get be sued for damages if they hurt themselves driving the car. If you want to help your daughter out, why not offer to do part or all of the drive with her?
Sal
I did lots of long-distance driving with friends in college. Does she have a friend who can join her? Could you offer to pay for the hotel so they can break up the drive? This seems like the kind of thing you solve very differently in college and as a working adult.
Cat
+1, does your daughter have a West Coast friend who’s going home for the summer? They could drive together on on a road trip adventure
Aggie
For $2,000 in shipping costs, I would strongly consider purchasing a $2,000 car on the west coast. Once the internship is complete, you could sell it back to Carvana/CarMax and recoup some and/or all of the purchase price.
Anon
If you’re the type of mother who is trying to figure out these kinds of logistics for your adult child, you’re probably not going to let that adult child drive around in a $2,000 car.
Vicky Austin
My sister recently had the same thing happen. She and my folks drove up together; they helped her move in and then flew home. At the end of the summer they flew back to her, helped her move out and drove home together. Is that possible?
Anon.
Yep. This is what my family did as well. Except my parents paid for a friend’s plane ticket on the way there. And on the trip home, my sister flew straight home because she had commitments at school and my parents did some tourist stuff while driving back.
Anonymous
When my teen gets to college, I’d love to have an excuse to take a cross-country road trip with her.
Anonymous
+1
Clementine
This is prime road trip age. Offer to pay for a friend’s plane ticket back so she doesn’t have to drive out alone.
Sincerely, somebody in their 30’s who has fond roadtrip memories from college…
blueberries
My experience with shipping a car around that age was pretty miserable—the timing was unpredictable and the shipping company drivers were so creepy that I felt like I had to bring a posse of large men with me to meet them. I absolutely would not go through it for such a short period.
Let her figure something out—now is the time for her to be building these kinds of life skills with minimal parental support.
Anon
I have a lot of thoughts:
Use tollguru dot com to determine the cost of gas and tolls to bring the car out to the west coast. This doesn’t factor in wear and tear on the vehicle, nor does it factor in issues like handling unexpected maintenance.
Road trips are great fun and I have wonderful memories of the one I did from Boston to San Diego in my twenties. But she probably needs someone to go with her – that’s a lot of driving, hotels, gas stations, etc., for a young woman.
If a friend goes with her, you should help them plot out their hotel stops in advance. I think it can be really hard to figure out where the reasonably priced hotels are in that are also in safe areas.
Usual rules: you do not have to stay AT the expensive hotels, but if you stay at the cheap ones near the nice name-brand hotels, it’s probably in a good area. I’ve stayed at plenty of Comfort Inns to save money, but I stay at the Comfort Inns that are next to the Hiltons, not the ones that are the only hotel/motel in a 20-mile radius. Likewise, stopping for gas at places that have chains like Starbucks and Panera increase the chances that it’s a relatively nice and low-crime place.
Talk to them about ensuring that the gas tank is always at least 1/3 full. Talk to them about filling up the gas tank if it looks like they will need to drive into the night – if it’s 10 pm and your tank is 2/3 full, and you’ll hit the hotel at 2 am, get that tank filled up now and then drive straight through to the hotel. Don’t try to find a place that’s open at 1 am and not sketchy.
Get the Gold AAA. Three-mile towing gets expensive when you get two flat tires and the nearest tire shop is 20 miles down the road.
If this doesn’t appeal to you, just post on Facebook that you’re looking for someone to drive the car out to California, specify dates, and pay for the return plane ticket. Thirty-year-old me (heavily insured, very responsible) would have done that in a heartbeat.
Anonymous
heck i’ll do it now! I’m a lawyer, I’m responsible. lolll
Anon
If your standard is Starbucks and Panera, you are going to have a hard time finding places to stop off the highway during the majority of the drive (and this is coming from someone who has driven from the NE to Midwest or back over 5 times and take a bunch of other road trips out west). Almost everywhere right off a major highway is safe, especially if you are not stopping in major cities.
Anonymous
Right? This is really clueless and excessive.
Anon
Excuse me, I’ve driven through 38 states. Don’t call me clueless because of your little 7-state roadtrip.
Anon
Umm, I’ve visited 48 states. It is clueless to expect a starbucks and Panera everywhere.
Anon
Yup, 46 states here, many of them visited in a vehicle. Starbucks/Panera and Hiltons are silly benchmarks for safety. Anywhere near a major highway should be well-trafficked and safe, especially if you avoid the middle of the night. If my college age daughter was doing this trip, the main thing I would be advising her would be to stop for a full night of sleep every night and to aim to be checked into a hotel by 10 pm.
Anon
Seriously, I was (and still am!) so jealous of friends who had a reason to drive cross country in college! A few of my friends did it, and it looked like such a blast. You could offer to help out with gas/food/lodging on the trip and/or take some time off and drive with her.
Lots to Learn
OP here. Appreciate all the suggestions / comments. She is trying to find a friend to do the road trip but it’s kind of tough due to the destination (Salt Lake City) and the timing (just before Christmas). Thanks, everyone.
Cat
do you guys ski? You could drive out with her, spend a few days skiing over the holiday, and fly back?
Anon
Even if you don’t ski, Park City (very close to SLC) is beautiful.
Anon
Maybe add on an hour to the trip and drop off someone in Denver, where it’s easy to fly back? Denver to SLC is 8 hours.
Post something on her college’s intranet and see if anyone wants a ride in that direction. There may be a student who would happily split gas rather than paying for an expensive Christmas plane ticket.
Anonymous
She should drive herself there in her car.
Lots to Learn
OP again. I’m kind of laughing at all the comments that my daughter should be figuring this out for herself (but taking them in the well-meaning spirit that they’re intended, I know). Last summer, she figured out all the logistics for a three-month, self-funded trip around Europe, so I know she’s capable of it. We’re planning to talk tonight to compare ideas for how to get it done and I just thought the group might have some suggestions neither of us had thought of. Always appreciate the feedback!
Anon
Love this response to the daily snark. :)
Anonymous
+1
Abby
Love that she did a 3 month SELF FUNDED trip around Europe at 19!
Anon
My recently graduated sister and mom just did a trip similar to this – they road-tripped over 4 days from the Midwest to Portland, where my sister will be spending the next year. I actually flew out to meet them, we spent several days touristing and wine tasting, and my mom and I flew back. There’s a platform called Trippy that you can use to help with your itinerary.
Anon
When I did an internship out west, I bought a used car and drove it home. If she has a car, she should totally drive herself, maybe bring someone along for fun. It’s a great age to do that. Also if she wants to rent (either a car or hotel) and has trouble booking one, the corporation can book one for her despite her age. Ask HR or the POC how to do it.
anon
What do you all think of these? I can’t decide whether I love them or hate them or whether they’d work for me. I’m 5’2″, 115 lbs and very hourglassy
https://mmlafleur.com/shop/carmen-jacket-sharkskin-black-white
https://mmlafleur.com/shop/cheyenne-sharkskin-black-white
Anonymous
I think they will look great on an hourglass, but at 5″2 the dress will probably need some hemming (coming from someone even shorter!)
Anon
I love them. I’m your size and I would rock them separately. At 5 2 I find longer blazers with dresses lower the visual midline too much. Definitely have to get the dress hemmed too.
Anon
Kat, this page is directing me to spam pages (for Verizon in particular). What gives?
Help me find shoes
I have a wedding to attend in November. I have decided to wear this dress https://m.shop.nordstrom.com/s/eliza-j-lace-fit-flare-cocktail-dress-regular-petite/3651256/full?origin=keywordsearch-personalizedsort&breadcrumb=Home%2FAll%20Results&color=black. The dress is not so short on me. What kind of shoes will go with the dress? I am thinking of boots … just for comfort. There will be a lot of standing …. Thanks!
Anonymous
I’m having a hard time pairing boots with a cocktail dress. How about dressy flats?
Anonymous
I posted this on the weekend thread but am hoping to get more eyes. Is a Chanel back with the chanel logo on the clasp logo tacky (Chanel classic flap)?
Cat
I don’t think it’s tacky on that specific bag, because the logo is small and a tasteful part of the clasp design. Where logos get tacky, IMHO, is when they are large or plastered all over the bag — like the Coach C’s of 15 years ago or the LV logo canvas.
Super Anon
Has anyone here been in a long distance relationship that was “open”? Any words of advice or encouragement/discouragement?
Anonymous
This kind of thing only works if both parties want it to be open. Otherwise the party who isn’t looking for it to be open is going to be in for a world of hurt.
From experience, LDR are a lot of work. If you’re not committed and invested in making it work, including daily contact and regular visits, they don’t tend to last. Hard to see how someone could both have time to invest in an LDR are also pursue other people.
Anonymous
Doesn’t matter what we think, it matters whether you are okay with it.
anon
From your perspective, what is the upside to an arrangement like this? That might help you get more meaningful answers. What are you hoping to gain?
Anon
A close friend of mine did this and both partners ended up finding other people where they lived. I think it’s hard to keep it going if you can both get what you need from people who aren’t long distance.
Cat
from the tone of your question, it sounds like your SO is the one asking for an open relationship? I have only one friend who tried this and it turns out the SO was cheating on her with someone else in their town and wanted to make it “approved.”
Anon
What is the benefit of being in a long-term relationship if it is open? For some people, those benefits would be sufficient. For me, it would not.
Not what you asked, but are there any plans to move to the same city. Even if those plans are 2-3 years out, I find that I need an end date. If it is open-ended long-distance, that has never worked for me. Making it an open relationship would just be putting off the end of the relationship and probably decrease the chance that we like each other after the split.
Anonymous
This. DH and I were long distance for almost 2 years while I was in law school and he finished his Phd. We went 3-6 months without seeing each other in person a couple times which was rough but having an end date for the LDR was key. LDR was only worth the effort because we were pretty serious about each other from the beginning, I would not have been okay with the effort if it was an open situation.
Anonymous
I have been in two LDRs that were effectively open. There was no agreement to openness, but the reality was that we got lonely and at times strayed. For me, it wasn’t a dealbreaker given the circumstances. The breakups happened because it became clear we were not going to be in the same place on a timeline we could both live with, not because of the indiscretions. For the right person, with a light at the end of the tunnel indicating we’d eventually be in the same place, I’d make that gamble again. And I am currently in touch with someone with expectations to meet up the next time we happen to be in the same place — no relationship, just a communicated desire to get to know one another if we have the opportunity. I am not sure I’d agree to an open LDR, though. That just sounds like a recipe for confusion, miscommunications, and heartbreak.
Of Counsel?
I’m about to show my ignorance of private practice after a career spent in government law. I’ve been approached by a well respected firm about coming on board in an of counsel role. They are putting out feelers to test my interest but we haven’t had a talk about numbers or anything definite yet. I have literally no clue how to come up with what terms I’d be agreeable to. I’m in a generally LCOL area in a specialized area of law (mostly regulatory compliance and litigation). I’m pretty much at the top salary of what my current job allows which is decent for my area but by no means similar to what private practice people are pulling down. I obviously have no book of clients that I could bring, but I’m well respected in my field. How do I calculate what I’m worth?
Anon
Could you find out what the senior associates at the firm make? (I’m assuming you’ve been practicing 10+ years.)
Amsterdam
I will be in Amsterdam in November for a day and half. Will arrive in the morning on Saturday and will leave in the afternoon the next day. Any suggestions on what to see & where to eat? I booked a hotel room at Okura. Thank you!
Lise
To eat: grab a Surinamese sandwich at Tchin, fresh stroopwafels anywhere, dinner at Sampurna on Singel, cookies at Van Stapele, pancakes at Pancakes Amsterdam. To see: the Anne Frank house is incredibly moving, I love the Rijksmuseum, wander around Albert Cuyp Market (also an eat thing).
Anon
Anne Frank House – you’ll need to book tickets in advance. Truly one of the most moving museum experiences I’ve ever had.