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Sales of note for 9.19.24
- Nordstrom – Beauty deals through September, and cardmembers earn 3x the points (ends 9/22)
- Ann Taylor – Extra 30% off sale
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- Eloquii – Extra 50% off sale
- J.Crew – 50% off select styles — and 9/19 only, 50% off the cashmere wrap
- J.Crew Factory – Up to 60% off everything + 50% off sale with code
- Lo & Sons – Warehouse sale, up to 70% off
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- Spanx – Lots of workwear on sale, some up to 70% off
- Talbots – Anniversary event, 25% off your entire purchase — Free shipping, no minimum, 9/19 only
- Target – Car-seat trade-in event through 9/28 — bring in an old car seat to get a 20% discount on other baby/toddler stuff.
- Tuckernuck – Friends & Family Sale – get 20%-30% off orders (ends 9/19).
- White House Black Market – 40% off select styles
And some of our latest threadjacks here at Corporette (reader questions and commentary) — see more here!
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- What small steps can I take today to get myself a little more “together” and not feel so frazzled all of the time?
- The oldest daughter is America's social safety net — change my mind…
- What have you lost your taste for as you've aged?
- Tell me about your favorite adventure travels…
anon4this
I met this “friend” at work a year ago, who is just a tad more senior than me and has been super helpful to my career this past year. We are both married. Things have.. felt a bit weird with him? Over the past year a lot of normal work friendly interaction… but also a lot of questions about my husband, comments on his own marriage, comments on my appearance (harmless, things like noticing when my hair looks different etc), excuses to work together (honestly if it wasn’t for him we would have never ended up working together in the first place), feeling like he’s looking at me like he is checking me out, random texts at inappropriate work hours (e.g., a text on friday night with a funny comment about a work email someone else sent), compliments etc. Now w/quarantine, we are having regular phone calls, don’t even know how it happens, but there seems to always be a random work reason that doesn’t feel necessary at all. Things are just feeling way off.. am I overthinking this? What should I do? Don’t want to be stuck in an awkward situation!! He’s a super decent guy and I am sure 99% likely it’s all fine, but my intuition tells me something is way off and I may want to distance myself a bit from him (how??), but also don’t really want to since he has been so helpful to my career, and will likely continue to be.
Anon
Trust your instincts and reduce your interaction with him to minimum work necessities.
Senior Attorney
+1
In-House in Houston
Trust your instincts and gradually pull away. Stop the personal calls or cut the work calls short when they start to get personal, don’t reply to the texts (especially if they’re on a Friday night). He’ll eventually get the hint. This is a very slippery slope that you definitely don’t want to go down. You have no idea what’s going on in this guy’s head – he might think you’re reciprocating and then what? Maybe I watch too much Dateline or Lifetime…but how many stories have you heard about a jealous coworker out to kill the spouse so that they can be together. Yes, this is obviously dramatic, but you NEVER KNOW! You don’t have to make a big production over it just do it gradually and he should get the hint. Good luck.
Anonymous
She’s been willing engaging in this conduct with him for a year. No need to paint the dude as a potential psycho.
Anon
+1 it sounds to me like he likes her, but he’s done nothing wrong. She hasn’t told him to back off, and in fact has continued to engage with him and participate in contact outside of work. It’s really unfair to suggest he’s some kind of deranged stalker.
Anon
I know someone who could have written this post a few years ago…they ended up leaving their spouses for one another. That said, most of this could be platonic or a harmless crush that won’t be acted on. The biggest red flag to me is “comments about his marriage” – if it’s anything more intimate than “My wife and I went hiking this weekend” you need to shut that down fast. I promise you no good will come from letting a man confide in you about his marital troubles. That’s something men frequently do when they’re trying to lay the groundwork for an affair, so the woman they want to cheat with won’t feel like she’s breaking up a marriage. When he asks about your husband, what do you say? The same logic applies to you – this is not the person to vent to about any frustrations in your marriage. When talking to him about your relationship, the only thing you should convey is that you’re happily married.
OP
His questions about my husband are harmless. Initially it was things like what does he do etc, and then he would ask weird questions about what my husband thought of certain things (e.g., how does your husband feel about your big promotion?) I usually just kept things vague, “he does XYZ” “he is very happy for me” Super hard to tell if it was harmless or inviting trouble.
Anon
I would gush about your husband a little more, eg., “He’s absolutely thrilled for me! I’m so lucky to be married to someone who is so supportive of my career.” Instead of just “he’s happy for me.”
Your vagueness may be giving him the impression you don’t want to talk about your husband and he may be making the logical leap that it’s because you’re not happy in your marriage. That’s not fair, and you shouldn’t have to gush about your husband at work to fend off a coworker’s advances, but it might help.
Anon
This, exactly.
I learned the hard way, via dating relationships and not marriage, that a lot of people like to pry, sniff out any weaknesses, or otherwise be obnoxious.
To most outsiders, there is exactly one message about my marriage: my husband is exceptional, an amazing husband, a great father, and I am incredibly blessed to have him.
He’s had women do the same thing to him. Sometimes, it’s not even sexual (his brother’s wife), so much as competitive, but he’s learning to just shut it down.
Anon
You can slowly disengage a bit. Don’t answer the texts outside of work hours. Decline a couple meetings and say you are busy. He will get the hint.
Anon Probate Atty
+1
Anonymous
You are dramatically underthinking this. Obviously none of this is above board from
either of you. Does your husband know you’re having an emotional affair? You need to put a stop to this now.
American Girl
This is definitely not an emotional affair.
Anon
Not definitely, but probably innocent from her side because she’s posting here, also because she views this as a professionally helpful interaction. I had a boss I was extremely friendly with who helped my career immeasurably. But I never questioned the appropriateness because there was nothing inappropriate, our spouses met at company events, I never kept anything about our interactions from my spouse, no lines were remotely crossed.
American Girl
Yes, this is well said. This is why women are still — even in 2020 — burdened with so much unfairness at work. The man described above has been extremely friendly without crossing any technical lines, and, as the OP notes, he’s been helpful to her career. If this were not a professional situation, this would be so much easier.
Anonymous
What? This is not an emotional affair. Women can be friends with their male colleagues and vice versa. They have almost no non-work related contact. She’s uncomfortable so she can dial it back in the ways other posters have suggested but there’s not an emotional affair because they texted about a dumb work email after hours.
Sa
+1
anon
+1 also men text each other all the time about dumb work emails after hours. To suggest that women not engage in these types of friendly interactions for fear of being accused of having an emotional affair really sets the stage for women to miss out on all sorts of professional opportunities that arise after hours.
OP
husband is aware of all of this. he is obv not ecstatic about it, but he trusts me to make the right decision. what i am torn on is that it would hurt my career to disengage.
Anon
He won’t help you professionally if you don’t text cute things back after hours? That itself sounds concerning
Anon
I cannot imagine a male colleague commenting on my appearance unless it’s to tell me I have something in my teeth; this would be way out of line in my office.
Anon
My colleagues comment on my appearance all the time and it’s totally normal and appropriate. “Oh that blazer has such cool buttons” “I really like your watch” etc. They just don’t comment on the physical attributes of my body which is where I think the line is.
Anonymous
Agree. I wear pretty sedate shoes normally but I have a couple of highly patterned ones that almost always generate a compliment from a female colleague and on occasion from a well dressed male colleague. Men can be clothes horses too. One of the male lawyers used to be a tailor in a previous career and regularly complimented people, male and female, when they had a particularly great suit on. It was like a mark of pride around the office if you got a suit compliment from him.
Anon
Really? The men I work with regularly notice a haircut or new outfit and tell me I look nice. I agree it sounds like this guy is crushing on her, but I think it’s a bit dramatic to say men can’t comment on your appearance unless it’s to tell you that you have food in your teeth.
CountC
Same here. Yesterday a co-worker told me I looked nice and he liked my dress. It was exactly what it seemed on the surface – a compliment and nothing more.
anon
+1 The men who comment on my new haircut or new outfit also comment on other men’s new haircuts or outfits or watches or shoes or socks (god, the conversations they have about socks!). People are allowed to have conversations about appearance without it being automatically sexist or inappropriate.
anonshmanon
We used to joke that this one colleague who always noticed haircuts, was so conditioned to praise them on his wife, that we all got the same attentiveness.
LaurenB
Really? I’ve had male colleagues comment, not on anything inappropriate like body shape. I traveled with a male colleague to Japan once and we had a grand time in the Ferragamo store as he picked out ideal shoes for me (none of which I wound up buying) – he had great taste!
Anon
“Appearance” to me means my person (vs fashion/personal affects), so I think I misunderstood.
Anon
I’ve been told “you look nice today” plenty of times without it being sexual/romantic. Obviously a comment like “wow, your b00bs look great in that dress” is completely inappropriate. But OP specifically said he was noticing haircuts, which I think is not that weird.
Anonymous
“I am sure 99% likely it’s all fine, but my intuition tells me something is way off”
“I may want to distance myself a bit from him (how??), but also don’t really want to since he has been so helpful to my career,”
There’s a real conflict here between what your intuition is telling you and what you’re trying to convince yourself of rationally. Eventually, his attraction to you could hurt your ability to do your career, not help it.
Never too many shoes...
Or perhaps you are actually just moving towards being friends, like real actual friends and not “friends”.
If you do not want to be friends with this guy, then people have given some good advice on how to gently disengage. But there is nothing inherently wrong with being friends with a man and talking about your lives in exactly the same way you would with a woman. Caveat, I recognize I am a small minority on this board that believes there is no difference at all with being friends with men, even at work, and that the level of intimacy shared is neither a problem to marriage nor an indicator of anything more than friendship. YMMV.
Anon
I agree with this in principle. I am the only woman in my group. It would be so, so lonely if I didn’t develop friendships with my colleagues. Those relationships have been a great source of joy and comfort. But I think there’s a unique red flag with this particular situation – he’s sharing issues about his own marriage. That’s a no no in my book. I think OP can move this friendship to another track with some subtle, but persistent, disengagement though, so she doesn’t burn bridges but also doesn’t get into sticky situation.
anon
This. I am also the only woman in my group and thoughts that we could be friends. The oversharing and his odd coaching of me started – that is definitely a red flag. Distance yourself now.
Cb
Yeah, I feel like this is in the realm of possibility. Men and women can be friends! My male officemate and I talk a lot about our personal lives – our families in our respective home countries, our partners and my son, what we’re reading, cooking, doing at the weekend, etc. We also Whatsapp, mostly sharing gif reactions to our colleagues or political news or checking in on how lockdown is going.
I think the thing here as that we’re both comfortable with the dynamic. I wouldn’t feel uncomfortable with either of our partners or colleagues observing our interactions and have similar conversations with female colleagues.
Anon
Yeah, I agree with this. This all reads as friendly more than flirtatious to me. I have a similar friend at work – it would be totally normal for him to text me on a Friday night with a comment like that, though we do work long irregular hours. I’ve never questioned that our relationship is anything but appropriate – I would say maybe take this even farther – if you’re becoming friends, what about grabbing dinner sometime and bring the spouses? Take it the other way and embrace being friends, including involving your respective spouses.
Anon
So I’ve had an affair with a colleague before and this is how it started. PULL BACK NOW!
I didn’t get caught, ended it, and it made me realize I needed therapy. After a few years of therapy, then couples counseling, I realized I needed to leave my marriage, which I did and I’m now much much happier. I wish I had never gotten involved with colleague, but rather dealt with my issues, but at the time I was in total denial that they existed. Had either of us gotten caught, it would have ended much much worse for everyone.
PS — I’m not proud of this and I recognize that I was an as*hole.
Anon for this
Similar to another poster, I also had an affair with someone I met through work and this is definitely how it started (and continued for ~2 years until the tipping point). He would mention he fought with his wife, for example. It was always clear I could call him (about work issues) at any time, day or night. We started to go in on the weekends to work on a project together. It could have been totally legitimate but it was, in hindsight, obviously an excuse for us to spend time together.
I also have friends, real friends, male friends, at work who I would never do anything with and I believe male and female friendships can exist and be really meaningful. But this whole thing about your intuition feeling something is off is because something is off. I felt that way about this man (and had never felt that way about the many men I was and still am actually friends with) but said to myself that nothing would ever happen between us, so it was harmless fun and flirting. Obviously not so.
OP
Ugh. Yeah I will try to find a time for us to set up a call and he will be like “just call me anytime” which feels weird for anyone else?? Like I can’t imagine calling another coworker anytime, you know. or setting up meetings via text rather than email
And the meeting up at weird hours, like we will have work drinks w other people and then we are somehow engaged in a one hour conversation in the parking lot and I don’t even know how it happened in the first place. I have pretty much barely dated other than husband who I married young so I know nothing about what it looks like when a man hits on you and what’s appropriate for a friendship or work relationship, but reading through all these comments makes me think this all needs to stop.
I do genuinely enjoy spending time with him and working together which is why it got to this place, probably.
Anonymous
Girl please. You know exactly what it looks like. It looks like you choosing to hang out chatting with your married coworker one on one after drinks when everyone else has left.
Anonymous
Just respond with, why don’t I call you at 10 am (pick a time) to put it back into definitely business appropriate territory.
Anonymous
Whoa . . . an hour-long, one on one conversation in the parking lot AFTER after-work drinks? Rather than get in your cars and go home to your families?
“Genuinely enjoy spending time with him” can mean, “great guy, good friend material,” but is can also mean, “feeling attracted to him, like him an awful lot, the kind of guy I’d date if I were dating someone, enjoy that he likes me, and would feel sad and lonely without this level of relationship with him.”
Anon
Yup. And it sounds like you’re feeling the latter way to me.
Airplane.
Oof. Don’t hide behind this:
“I have pretty much barely dated other than husband who I married young so I know nothing about what it looks like when a man hits on you and what’s appropriate for a friendship or work relationship.”
You are an adult woman. You know what is appropriate for a work relationship. You know what is appropriate for a friendship. You might not have much dating experience other than your husband but girl, don’t fall into this and hide behind inexperience. You are adult enough to have gotten married and made that committment to your husband, don’t infantalize yourself now.
OP
Yeah I think I keep running through all these scenarios in my mind on how this is all fine and “just friends” but clearly it’s not the case…
Senior Attorney
If you are thinking about it this much and spending this much mental energy trying to convince yourself it’s fine, then plainly that is a sign that it’s not fine.
Anonymous
To reign this in, you could stop responding to him outside of business hours. If necessary, you could tell the guy you’re very busy with something (home life/parents/husband/unwinding/hobbies) these days and need to keep your work life from taking over your home life – and you’re trying to keep work things confined to business hours.
Anonymous
This sounds like a humble brag but hey it does feel good to feel desired so I can’t blame you.
Anonymous
Out statewide curfew is not helping. It has completely eliminated all exercise options for me given my work schedule — no more night or morning runs, which is the only time it isn’t blazing hot outside.
anon
Had this happen to me with a ‘work friend’….seemed harmless and he always wanted input on stuff, not too invasive but sometimes personal. He started lots of texting in off hours….I fell into it like I am helping a friend that needs me, but it got to be too much. The friendly talks turned into unsolicited coaching that he wanted to give me – about my work, how he thinks things should be handled….I realized this was a form of validation that he wanted/needed and I was unwittingly providing some of it. I distanced myself and ultimately had to cut him off. Distance yourself now…this may not be inappropriate behaviour and does not qualify as an emotional affair but I can assure you that you are fulfilling some kind of need for validation that this person has….and it is just weird. For me it went from light friendly conversation to needy and exhausting.
Anon
Girl, you have got to stop now. I am sure other people who had affairs can tell you how horrible and painful it is for everyone involved. One of my friends found out her husband was cheating on her and it sounded like the most awful thing ever – for her, her husband, the AP. Perhaps other people can comment on what it was like being the cheater, but my friend was miserable for a long time and came super close to ending her marriage.
I mean, of course it could never head there, especially if this has gone on for a year and nothing happened, but why take the chance. No guarantees that in the next parking lot chat you don’t end up inside his car
Anon
I know most people don’t believe this, but it sucks as the cheater too. You totally can lose control of everything, do things you never thought you would, and you will be so ashamed and hate yourself for hurting people so badly and feel entirely worthless.
The consequences hurt everyone.
Anon
I had a relationship like this. In hindsight, we both had crushes on each other and the relationship was not appropriate (although I don’t think there’s anything inherently wrong with opposite sex co-workers hanging out or texting outside of work hours about non-work topics, our relationship was more than that). We were both married, so there was a very clear line – getting physical – and that line was never crossed, but we were definitely in what I believe is emotional affair territory. And then one day he told me he was leaving his wife and tried to kiss me. I had to decide if I wanted to a) cheat and hope to not get caught, b) leave my husband or c) recommit to my marriage and end the emotional affair. I chose option c and am very happy I did. A decade later I’m still happily married, and I realize the attraction was not really about this guy specifically (who is not especially physically attractive and wasn’t actually a good person). I was just bored and having a mini-midlife crisis and liked the attention and validation from a new person. I think that’s actually the root of most cheating, rather than finding someone you’re fundamentally more compatible with. The guy ended up sleeping with another coworker (pro tip: guys who want to use their female co-workers as exit ramps for a bad marriage aren’t generally that discerning) and then getting back together with his wife. Perhaps getting back together isn’t the right term because I’m skeptical that he ever really left her. I started trying to find a new job immediately, but it took me about a year, so that year was very awkward, having to see him and his workplace ‘girlfriend’ a lot. But in the end I came out relatively unscathed and I’m SO glad I didn’t sleep with him.
Anon
Oh also, when I was in this relationship, someone told me that you should ask yourself of opposite sex friends “Would I sleep with him if I weren’t married?” If the answer is “ew no he’s like a brother to me” then the friendship is fine (at least on your end). If the answer is “Totally, but nothing will happen because I’m married” that’s where you get into more dangerous territory. Even if you believe you have the self-control to never do anything physical, if you’re really attracted to your close male friend you’re probably having an emotional affair.
Super Anon for this
Add me to the list of people who had an affair that started something like this. Without going into too much detail, we worked together and we were both married. He kept finding excuses to call me or meet with me, and after I while I knew they were just excuses, but I lied to myself about what was happening. It became a full-fledged emotional affair, which did get somewhat physical. Eventually it ended, and I’m so glad I’m still married. But I wish it never happened, as it was not worth the tremendous emotional pain that my spouse and I both went through. What you are feeling is your intuition telling you that something isn’t right, and it really sounds like it isn’t. Please don’t brush those feelings aside. Once you start, it’s very very hard to stop an affair. No matter how strong you are, believe me when I say you can lose control of your feelings. Please listen to your intuition and start putting him off a bit now, before things get more intense.
anon
Is anyone else finding it harder to maintain their weight since quarantine? I find that now unless I am tracking what I am eating /exercising intensely / having minimal alcohol and treats, my weight will be a few pounds over what it was pre-quarantine. Is anyone else experiencing this? How are you coping?
Go for it
Yes to all of this. The first few weeks I lost 8 lbs from anxiety….and yep, since then I found them & some. For me, I had to stop snacking~ Translation is essentially avoid the kitchen.
I’ve also switched to packing my lunch as if going to the office. It has helped with further creep. Oh! Not buying ice cream.at.all.
In the evening if the sweet tooth calls I answer with fruit.
It’s been an exercise slog as well, I am so much more engaged at a gym. At home Not so much. Walking lots is not the same as lifting.
Anon
I’m making a conscious effort to get up from sitting as often as I would in the office, and I’m also consciously choosing not to snack between meals just because I have easier kitchen access. But if you’re doing both those things already, then I’m not sure. I am generally someone who has to watch carbs more closely when stressed and take a multi, or I will get hungry again after eating a carb heavy meal or get hungry because I still need vitamins, so those could be things to consider too.
Anon
Oh, and I always struggle with weight when I’m not sleeping well. If you aren’t sleeping well, it may be worth looking into that.
Anonymous
Yes literally the entire country. I manage it by reminding myself that surviving a plague, an onslaught of racism, and job uncertainty is way more important than 5lbs and trying to treat myself kindly and feed myself nutritious foods.
Anon for This
I don’t think it’s an onslaught of racism, it’s the spotlight on it. It’s not new.
LaurenB
Everybody understands what she meant and that she wasn’t suggesting that racism didn’t start until May 2020. No need for the virtue-signaling that you were aware of racism before now. We all were.
Anonymous
+1. Our language doesn’t have to be perfectly precise in a casual comment on the Internet.
Give Me A Break
Girl, you are exhausting. There is a lot of virtue-signaling on this platform. Anon for This’s comment was not it.
Anonymous
If you’re username is Give Me a Break, you might want to work on not being annoyed and frustrated on the Internet. Go look at some pictures of kittens.
Anonymous
@LaurenB yikes wow I see from below that you are still not aware of racism. Please do some self reflection and do better on this topic.
Anon
LaurenB, you know you could just not comment right? Scroll on by?
Anonymous
Yes – trying to watch what I eat and be more active. Being 10 feet from the kitchen results in more snacking vs. having to go down 4 floors to the office cafeteria. Not having to trek across the huge parking lot is cutting back my steps. Wearing a step tracker and brushing teeth after meals has helped somewhat.
Anon
Yes and I think it is in part to me having way less anxiety while working from home. I swear my anxiety was just burning calories from my higher heart rate and me going to the bathroom more frequently from said anxiety. I
Cat
yep. In Before Times, I would walk about a mile a day just commuting. Not doing that has meant I’ve added 4-5 pounds over 10 weeks. I’m trying to give myself grace, use the scale to keep more from creeping on, and know that it will come off when I’m back to that routine.
Anon
Yes. I think due to walking less than I did when I went to an office. I recently found out I’m permanently going to be WFH, so I need to figure out how to get more active at home and stop this weight creep.
Anon
No. I practice intuitive eating and my weight has stayed the same. I exercise more because I have more time and eat more comfort food because of stress.
Anon
Yes, and I don’t get it because I’m more active than I’ve ever been. If I don’t track my calories then I gain weight- never had to do that before.
OP
This is what’s happening to me too. It drives me nuts!!
Thanks, It Has Pockets!
It happens. For one thing it is SO easy to eat back your workout calories and not even realize it. But also, if you’ve recently gotten active, or kicked up your routine, this may be temporary water retention.
Anon
I mean- I keep telling myself that, but it doesn’t seem temporary because it’s still here!
quarantine bod
I haven’t gained weight according to the scale, but I’m losing muscle and my BF has gone up a touch. I used to lift heavy 3x-4x/week, with HIIT sessions or intensely active hobbies 2x-3x/week. I had a standing desk, I walked at least 2 miles as part of my commute a few days each week, I walked between meetings, etc. I’m still exercising in the morning and I can still do something active on the weekend, but the lack of general activity as a lifestyle means I’m not burning my usual calories. Sometimes I’m great about limiting dessert and wine, other times I literally bake cookies for breakfast. So yeah, I’ve kind of just decided that this is not the year I get super shredded and hit PRs on bench press, but my clothes still fit and my weight is reasonably holding, so I’m not going to fret too much.
pugsnbourbon
Same – making adjustments to my goals. I have a home gym so I really should be exercising as much if not more … but my mental health is completely haywire and I’m not coping well with that. Some days I need to deadlift until I can’t feel my hands, and some days I fall asleep at 4:30 pm.
Anon
I’ve gained quite a bit for me, but I think that’s because I abandoned IF. Trying to get better about it now and will really buckle down and get back to it once I have childcare again (having no childcare forces me to work really odd hours, and I can’t work on an empty stomach).
Anon
I’ve actually lost a few pounds, thought I’m still not at goal weight.
I do modified intermittent fasting to help control my severe reflux, and I’ve struggled to maintain a shortened eating window because I normally get up before dawn for a very long commute. Now with WFH, I get up 90 minutes later and have no problem skipping breakfast.
Thanks, It Has Pockets!
Yup. And I know my diet could be better, I don’t need those afternoon wine and cheese sessions (they’re less frequent than they used to be, but still not helping), and I definitely didn’t need to polish off that Spanish rice last night . . . I also could be exercising more, I exercise most days but I feel guilty when I just don’t have it in me. I understand CICO and I know my current weight, while not terrible, isn’t healthy and should be lower. I feel like I’m trying my best, but man, it’s not easy.
Little Red
I’ve actually lost six pounds in the past two and half months. One thing I’ve noticed is that I’m not as hungry come dinner time. When I used to get home from the office, most days I was starving but now I’m not as hungry.
Small light
A direct report of mine looks to be loosing a family member soon. In my response I gave my report everything I never got from my own managers in previous situations. I told them something along the lines of “Don’t worry, go spend time with your family. I will cover all work activities on your behalf” I know it doesn’t make the situation better but at least I’m not making it worse.
Anon
It always makes me happy when people are good managers. There are a lot of bad ones who cause unnecessary toxicity for no good reason. I’m glad you are a good one. Good job!
Anon
I’m in your direct report’s position right now (losing my father and lost my mother about 3.5 years ago). I don’t know if your report can respond right now, but I’m sure they appreciate your kindness. My supervisor is mostly understanding but can sometimes be…. clueless (example: emailing several times over the course of 2 hours and asking me for updates on a matter when I was visiting my father in hospice— supervisor had forgotten I was there and did call and apologize when I explained the delay). Contrast to my previous supervisors who were genuinely amazing when my mother was dying— told me to take all the time I needed and actively discouraged me from checking emails. A group of them even came to the funeral, which was so touching.
Small light
Thank you! My report and I are on great terms so they sent me a message directly with details of the situation. I will under no circumstances contact my direct report with work questions. In a previous job my own manager texted me 8 times about work questions the day my dad died! I vowed right then and there to never do something so callous to another human. Respecting my report’s personal time and bereavement leave is top priority.
Anonina
Total, complete sympathy to you. I hope your father is comfortable and you’re able to spend good time with him. My father just died at the beginning of May (after only a day in hospice) and my supervisor being amazing and supportive made an enormous difference. I knew she was a good boss before, but her generosity during a horrible life event built up a gigantic store of good will from me towards her.
The original Scarlett
This is great, just a suggestion for taking it a step further and proactively tell people not to email her for X time period other than with final decision FYIs so she doesn’t come back to a mess, and ask people she deals with to reach out to you instead so she doesn’t have to worry / do that work while she’s out
Marie
This makes a horrible situation so much better. You are giving your report permission to mentally check off the “worry about work” box and be able to focus his/her energy on family and her own needs. That is vital during a family crisis. When I was an associate, I lost 2 members of my extended family in 3 months and the partner’s response that my work would be covered and to go immediately where I needed to be was exactly what I needed to hear.
Anon
You’re doing the right thing by explicitly telling your report not to focus on work. That’s all I would have wanted from my supervisor when I was in a similar situation, plus a check-in once I’m back at work.
pugsnbourbon
+1. I will remember the grace my boss gave me when my MIL passed away for the rest of my career.
Anonymous
Any tips on how to handle a new dog owner? My bestie has a covid pup and we are planning a vacation together. I’ve just realized she’s only been sending me dog friendly air bnbs and is planning to bring the dog. I don’t want to vacation with a puppy!! I obviously need to talk with her about this but I am
emphatically not a dog person, so hoping some dog people can weigh in on how to broach this so I don’t accidentally insult her.
Anon
I’m very much a dog person and would not be offended if my friend told me she wanted to vacation without my pup in a nice way. To be fair, I generally assume that others don’t want to hang out with my dog unless they’re coming to my house or there’s some other species reason for me to bring her. I think it’s kind of presumptuous to just assume a dog is invited on a vacation.
Anonymous
I would definitely talk to her soon. I’m a relatively new dog owner (1 year) and some of my friends love him and I have one friend that is not a dog person. I totally respect that and am always mindful of where he is when she is visiting. I would never expect to bring him on vacation if travelling with her.
Make sure to have the conversation soon. She may want to try a couple of boarding options before she leaves him for an extended period if she doesn’t have family or friends who can keep him.
mascot
You need to make your feeling known that you aren’t a dog person so you aren’t seething the whole time. But, she may also decide to postpone the trip depending on the age of the dog. We’ve got a puppy now and travel would be difficult because it needs to go out a lot more than our standard 3x/day dog sitter for our adult dog, Plus, we aren’t comfortable boarding her yet at this age. If we were to take a trip, we’d probably opt to bring her along while at the same knowing that we couldn’t spend all day out sightseeing because we would need to deal with the dog at regular intervals.
Anonymous
He’ll be 28 weeks and there’s no postponing- either we do a beach vacation in August or we don’t. Which is fine if she’s rather not go than leave the dog home with a sitter. But the checking on the dog during the day is part of what concerns me- we will not be right on the beach so going home at lunch would be a full packing up.
Anon
You don’t need to be involved in the care of the dog. If she has to leave the beach to go check on the dog that’s her problem.
Anonymous
One car, and I’d rather not be left behind.
Walnut
This is valid. I vacation with people with dogs and we constantly adjust plans to accommodate the dog’s needs. It’s not a big deal if that is the expectation you come in with, but in OP’s case, it’s reasonable that she prefer to not vacation in that manner.
Anon
Is this your friend’s first dog or first time with a puppy? This doesn’t seem well thought through, with or without your concerns about bringing the pup along…
Speak up now. I’m a dog lover and owner and would never assume it was ok to bring my dog without expressly discussing it with the others.
AnonATL
My first comment is still in mod at the moment, but at 7 months old, the dog should be old enough, had his shots and gotten fixed to be boarded almost anywhere. Most only limit tiny pups that haven’t been fixed or had their first round of shots.
Anon
Yes, but many people are still not comfortable leaving their dog at 7 months. There may be separation anxiety issues (on both sides!).
AnonATL
For sure, she may not want to leave him yet for any number of reasons and that’s totally valid but doesn’t mean she and dog need to go on this trip if that’s the case.
One of mine was neglected pretty severely as a puppy and still has bits of separation anxiety issues 6 years later. We have to be careful with him in ways other people don’t with their “normal” dogs.
OP mentioned that the dog owner has a cousin that could watch dog, which might be good in this scenario if dog likes and knows cousin well. My parents watch our dogs for longer trips, and my dogs are always so excited to go stay with them because they’ve developed a good relationship and my parents spoil them. It ends up being a vacation for doggos too!
The original Scarlett
+1 – just adding that even pet friendly hotels and Airbnbs typically don’t allow you to leave the dog alone, so depending on where you’re going or what you’re doing, that can be a big limitation on its own
Anonymous
Ohhhhh boy. Okay. That is good to know. Because the dog cannot come with us all the time.
Thanks all!
Airplane.
I don’t think that is true for airbnb – I’ve been a frequent airbnb guest and have hosted myself at 2 of my properties. I’ve both brought my dog and hosted guests with dogs. If you are dog friendly as an airbnb I’ve never seen a restriction that you can’t leave the dog there alone – you either bring a crate or a gate or the airbnb has gates or crates specifically to leave the dog there while you are out.
The original Scarlett
It’s definitely something to check – I had an Airbnb myself and that was one of our rules and the same as the property management company that ran it for me. Believe me, the neighbors would call to complain the second they detected a dog left alone in our rental. So check the policy out is all.
AnonATL
I’m a dog lover, and traveling with a dog is tough which is why we typically pay for boarding or have family watch ours. If it is a puppy puppy, she may not be able to board it yet, but could probably find a local pet sitter.
If it’s not a puppy, it’s still hard to travel with a dog. They have to make stops for the bathroom on road trips, bring food and water, and somewhere safe in the Airbnb to stay. Ours destroyed a book one time at a rental and that was the last we decided to travel with a puppy. We were lucky it wasn’t something worse like a sofa cushion.
I think it’s totally fair to ask that the dog not come, but it depends a lot on the dog and what you were planning to do on this vacation. If you are planning to be gone from the house a lot, the dog would be left alone and might as well be with a boarder/pet sitter. It’s not super relaxing to travel with dogs either. You can’t fully disengage, similar to why people choose to vacation without their kids (I know dogs =/ children but the concept is similar)
Airplane.
You should use your words and talk to her. “Hey I know you just got Pup and I’m happy for you! And we are planning this vacation and we didn’t talk about Pup but I realize you are sending me dog friendly airbnbs – I’m not comfortable going on vacation with Pup so can we talk about whether we should postpone the vacation until Pup is older and you can leave her home or maybe shorten the trip so you can get a pup sitter? What do you think?”
Anonymous
Yes, I realize this! I was asking for help finding the right words, thank you.
American Girl
I think you should expect to cancel the trip if you don’t want the dog around. The pup is probably not old enough to be boarded, and boarding is so much more fraught now with COVID.
Anonymous
Oh she has a cousin who could come take care of pup. I just didn’t want to somehow sound completely tone deaf in expressing my preference doggie not come.
Anonymous
If she hasn’t explicitly stated that she is bringing the dog, the first step is to ask “Just wondering, were you planning on bringing Spot?” Then ask all the questions that have been asked here: How will you handle stops on the drive? Does Spot get carsick or anxious in the car? Will there be room in the car for Spot, his gear, and all of our luggage? Where will the dog stay while we are on the beach or out to dinner? How will you ensure he doesn’t damage the rental? If she’s a new dog owner or has never traveled with a dog before, being forced to think through the logistics may change her mind pretty quickly.
When we were young and foolish, my husband and I made a 2,000-mile road trip with a dog around that age. Never. Ever. Again.
Anon
I agree that the first question is a good one to start with, but I think it’s passive aggressive to just ask a ton of follow up questions about logistics and hope that she’ll decide not to bring the dog. As a dog owner, I’d hate to be asked all those questions and tell my friend the plan I’d come up with only to have her then say that she doesn’t want the dog to come. It’s much kinder to be direct and say you don’t want the dog to come, which is a totally understandable and reasonable position!
Anon
Yeah, there’s zero reason to not just say what you’re thinking. Advice to be passive aggressive is not good advice.
Walnut
Definitely don’t open the door with lots of questions. It’s totally valid to not want to vacation with a dog, just like many people don’t want to vacation with my toddlers.
Anon
You open your mouth and use your words.
Thanks, It Has Pockets!
“Hey Shelly, it seems like you’re planning to bring Pupernicus on the trip with us, but I was actually hoping it would be the two of us and no pets. Are you able to come without him?”
It could be that, much like having a newborn, she’s just not ready to leave the dog with someone else yet and maybe the trip doesn’t happen this year. Maybe she’s okay with a dogsitter or taking him to a kennel but isn’t sure she can afford the expense, maybe you could help her with the cost if it means a less complicated, dog-free trip for the both of you. Or maybe it’s no problem at all to leave the dog with someone and it just didn’t occur to her that that would be your preference, so you gotta make that preference known!
Constant Bloat - #thisis40 or something else?
For the last month or so, I have experienced constant bloating. I have not changed my diet or drinking habits. I eat a small amount of processed foods, eat vegan, and generally stay away from white bread and pasta because I know it bloats me. I probably do not drink as much water as I should and do drink coffee. I am a healthy weight, but slim so this is incredibly noticeable. While I have experienced temporary bloat in the past, it usually recedes after a day or so and I can tie it to a specific thing I ate or drank (beer, bread, etc.). I am exercising regularly and drinking a priobiotic in the morning. I also am having regular (if not more frequent) bowel movements – sorry for the TMI, but important here I though.
I plan to call my doctor’s office today to see if there is any other OTC/at home remedies they suggest before I seccumb to the Google rabbit hole of stomach bloat = cancer. Has anyone else experienced this? Should I add Metamucil as well as the probiotic? Is this just what happens when you turn 40??
Anonymous
How do you know you’re bloated and not just gaining weight?
Constant Bloat - #thisis40 or something else?
Because both have happened in the past and I am fairly confident that I am able to distinguish between the two. It’s also uncomfortable in the way that bloating is vs. weight gain. It’s also not the area in which I historically gain weight, however, definitely somethign to think about
Anon
When I first became vegan many moons ago my insides took a while to adjust to the fibre. After the adjustment period my digestive system became a machine and my bowels are so incredibly regular and I never bloat. But it was a solid like 2-3 months before my insides really figured out how to process foods in a healthy way.
Constant Bloat - #thisis40 or something else?
Good point! However, I have been eating vegan for over four years and haven’t changed anything in my diet over the last several months. Perhaps my body has developed sensitivities to new things?
Anonymous
The “last several months” have been the virus months. What’s your stress level been like? Have you been sleeping? Emotions and stress can show up in physical symptoms or digestive issues.
OP
Very good point! My sleep has been hit or miss. In fact, I talked to my doctor about that yesterday and we are trying a new approach to see if I can get better quality sleep.
I haven’t physically felt stress (my life hasn’t changed all that much – still going to work, not stressed about COVID generally as I am low risk and don’t interact with anyone oustide of work and the store, no kids, live alone . . .) but I know that doesn’t necessarily mean my body is not reacting to it!
With everyone’s comments it sounds like I should keep a food journal and ride it out a bit more before I do anything else.
Ribena
Or it’s just generally more sensitive because of the underlying anxieties of All This. I’m definitely noticing that myself.
CHL
Related to the thread above, I am moving a lot less than I did pre-COVID and that also plays a role in digestion etc. Is that something that could be relevant?
OP
In the first few weeks of COVID, yes, for sure. However, I’ve been running multiple miles a day for a month now and generally am over 10,000 steps every day (FWIW). I also am not WFH and am generally back to normal activities (albeit working out at home vs. at the gym). Could still be a holdover from the early days though I suppose?! I really don’t know how the timing on this stuff works.
Anon
There are a number of things my mind would jump to before cancer: IBS, Crohn’s, SIBO. Before calling the doctor, I’d start keeping a detailed food diary and try to find patterns.
OP
Thanks! I will do this.
Eek
I agree that something else is much more likely, but what is the harm in calling the doctor now? That seems like the safer approach.
Anon
All the symptoms around my cycle changed up around age 39-40, including gas/bloating, bowel movements, water retention, etc.
Giving up alcohol entirely (I miss beer!) helped but didn’t completely alleviate it. The amount of water retention my body is capable of for a few days each month is pretty astounding (and annoying).
OP
This had occurred to me too – grrrrrr! Does yours fluctuate at all or stay constant? I have been through two cycles with no change to what I perceive as bloating.
Anon
I’m the 9:47 Anon.
As I’ve aged (I’m 42 now), the length of my cycle has shortened (28 days to 22-23 days now) and I’ll only have one day of intense cramping/bleeding, I have generally a day on either side of it with some bleeding, and the bloat/water retention for about 2 days before that. When I was younger, it was 5-6 intense days. Pretty miserable.
Appetite has always been a huge pre-period marker for me. The day or two before my cycle starts, I could totally eat a large pizza and drink a 6-pack of beer and not even be full. Sometimes I’m successful in recognizing this before I’m midway through the pizza (no beer anymore, dammit), which is helpful in curbing bloat but doesn’t alleviate it totally.
Exercise – forcing myself to get out for a run – does help, though I’d say both slowing my roll on gluttony forcing myself to exercise even if I don’t want to *reduce* the bloating, but don’t eliminate it altogether.
anon a mouse
I agree with this and experienced the same. I notice that I am really bloated when I wake up on some days (to the point that my fingers feel tight and my upper stomach looks 5 mos pregnant) and managed to trace it to a few individual triggers: dairy late at night, salt over the day, beer within the last 48 hours, and not enough water.
Anon
No, this is not just what happens when you turn 40.
The doctor’s consult is a good idea because very honestly, bloating is one of the signs they tell people to watch for in regards to ovarian cancer, which can be detected by ultrasound. However, I think you may want to explore that you have an allergy or a sensitivity to something you’re eating. My story: I have always had GI problems but they really got worse when I was about 35. I had bad bloating, cramps, and my stools were full of mucus and then started having blood in them. I went through a lot of testing and got diagnosed with IBS, and was told the only answer was a drug that would suppress my immune system. I went to a doctor of ostepathy who does integrative medicine and he suggested a two-week elimination diet where I was on a hypoallergenic liquid nutrition supplement and a small amount of other, non-allergenic foods. I was amazed that basically eating baby food for two weeks I felt so much better. We then gradually started adding in foods, starting with the least allergenic first, and when we got to gluten all my symptoms came back. I also figured out cucumbers, beans, onions, and yogurt are problems for me and don’t eat those any more either. I basically follow a low FODMAPS diet with small amounts of dairy allowed. I don’t have many digestive issues any more.
I’ve known many vegans and all of them have had a different “eating philosophy” around how they eat vegan, ranging from just whole (mostly raw) foods to eating a lot of prepackaged vegan food and, frankly, junk food. Soy, which is in a lot of food whether it’s vegan or not, is something a lot of people are sensitive to. One of my vegan friends found out that eating a lot of nightshade vegetables (eggplants, tomatoes, white potatoes, bell peppers) caused her problems. Another vegan friend figured out that other nightshades are fine but he really can’t eat white potatoes without having severe acid reflux. Again, starting with your doctor is a good idea but if standard tests don’t show anything, you may want to seek out a vegan-friendly nutritionist (not all of them are) and see if you can zero in on what’s causing the issue in your diet. In the meantime, some basic advice: if there’s anything you recently introduced into your diet, try cutting that out; if there’s any one food or ingredient you eat a lot of, try eliminating that and see what happens.
OP
Thank you so much for this! I really appreciate it. I am going to start a food journal and work on your suggestions.
Roly Poly Little Bat-Faced Girl
When I cut out gluten after I turned 40, I found I had much less bloat. Practically none actually. Might be worth trying to eliminate gluten to see how your body reacts. Sounds like you’re eating pretty healthy already.
OP
There have been periods in my life where I cut out gluten and it definitely helped. I have half-heartedly been doing it lately, but definitely not fully committed. This is just so much more drastic of bloat than I have ever experienced!! Thank you!
Anon
It may well be stress, partially or fully – once that happened to me, and it stopped once the stressful situation stopped. Fiber gummies and exercise also seem to help. Good luck!
Anon
Drink a lot more water, every single day.
Anonymous
For those on different work hours than their SO, how long is reasonable to tiptoe around a still-sleeping SO? I start working around 9 am (from home) or earlier, BF goes in mid-afternoon and leaves at 11 pm. He’s usually in bed by 1 am. BF will sleep until almost noon if he doesn’t have a reason to be up. He’s not depressed and doesn’t have a medical condition, he just loves sleep.
I’ve been trying to work around his sleep schedule as much as possible I avoid scheduling calls before 10 am (which wake him up but I can’t push all calls until noon or later). I’ve been waiting to shower until he gets up. I haven’t been blow drying my hair. It’s disruptive to my day to have to do this stuff midday instead of getting it out of the way in the morning. I’m tired of tiptoeing around him and I’m starting to get resentful. I know I need to talk to him, but I’d like some feedback from the group about some reasonable boundaries here. I don’t want to come off as controlling or judgmental about him sleeping nearly 12 hours a day.
Anonymous
I would have done absolutely none of that. Ever. I’d try to not be loud in the bedroom and not turn on all the lights but I would get up and live my day as normal.
Really examine why you decided to sacrifice your needs and your comfort to this extreme. You don’t need to set boundaries. You just need to get up and live your life.
No Face
Agreed. I wouldn’t have even thought to do these things. My husband gets up before me and he just…gets ready. If I wake up, I’m not bothered or offended. It’s not a problem.
Did your husband ask you to do any of this? If yes, have a calm discussion about what you can’t push back. If no, just live your life like normal. No need for a discussion.
I have a (former) friend who does things like this. She majorly inconveniences herself for other people in ways that those other people never requested or wanted (or even knew about), then gets pissed at them for not appreciating the inconveniences. It was difficult to be her friend. She’s divorcing too. Don’t be her.
Anon
If he’s in the bedroom with the door closed, is it really that big of a disturbance if you talk on the phone or shower?
Keep in mind that having a different work schedule will throw off his normal sleep patterns and biological rhythm which is probably making him more tired. It’s not fair to ask him to wake up at 8am with you if he isn’t asleep until late. It’s not like he’s playing video games until 1am, he’s working. This is also an extremely stressful time for everyone and depression/anxiety can lead to fatigue.
That said I am also someone who loves sleep and needs a lot of it. I use earplugs and an eye mask so I’m not disturbed.
Anonymous
I”m assuming you’re in a one-bedroom/one bath situation?
Practical solutions first: Is there a sound machine going in the bedroom to block noise? Can it be made louder so you can do more? Can you blow-dry your hair in a room other than the bathroom near where’s he’s sleeping?
I’d probably say that you start your noise activities at 10a. That’s a solid 9 hours of sleep for him. You’ll be cutting into his “enjoyment” sleep, not his “health” sleep.
(By the way, 11 hours of sleep for a grown man sounds deeply abnormal to me. But maybe it’s more common than I think?)
emeralds
My husband and I have always had off-set schedules even pre-covid, and we both expect that the other person will be mindful of noise if the other one is asleep. But we are fine with the other person doing standard personal maintenance things like showering, making coffee, moving around the house, etc., because it just–is what it is! If I have to be ready to work at 8am, I’m getting up earlier than he is if he’s going in at 3pm; and if he’s getting home at 11pm, I’m not waiting for him to get home and do his bedtime routine before I go to bed.
I think you just have to be clear about your scheduling needs, and then extend him the same consideration if he is e.g. getting ready for bed later at night. If he is pouty or difficult about this, that gives you some information about his personal values.
anon
White noise and ear plugs. My now-husband was a restaurant waiter while I was in law school. He’d leave for work around 3 pm, get home around 1-2 am, be in bed by 4 am, and wake up around noon–reasonable, normal schedule for a waiter. I often had class at 9 am or 10:30. I’d get up and shower and dry my hair and dress and eat breakfast as needed. (Calls weren’t an issue, obviously.) When I went to bed before him, he wore headphones to watch tv or play video games but otherwise used the microwave, took a shower, and went about life. We lived in a 300 square foot apartment. I’ll say it again–white noise and ear plugs.
givemyregards
How heavy of a sleeper is he? Does he know you’re avoiding all these things while he sleeps? I live in a small-ish apartment and do all of these things while my spouse is sleeping (I do blow dry my hair in the hall bathroom, but that’s kind of a personal preference). I try not to bang around too much but we sleep with a white noise machine and I just leave that on when I get up and it seems to allow him to continue to sleep. I think it’s nice to be considerate while someone is sleeping, but you should be able to do what I’d consider “essential” activities (showering, working, etc. – maybe don’t mix up a batch of margaritas in the blender) – if those are really disruptive to him, I’d use a white noise machine, have him wear earplugs, etc. (this was what my dad did when I was a kid and he was working nights in the hospital).
Anonymous
Just talk to him. What do you want? Can you say “hey, my current schedule isn’t working out as well & I’ve found I need to go back to showering in the morning/starting my workday at 9 am/whatever.”
Flats Only
Can you put a white noise machine in the bedroom to mask the sound of shower and hair drying? If he’s in bed by 1:00 AM, I would assume he’s asleep by 2:00 AM, so by 10:00 AM he’s got his 8 hours and I think you’re justified doing work calls after 10:00 AM. But, kindly, are you one of those people who shouts on the phone? I know I am, but since I am aware of it I can consciously control it when needed. Even if he wasn’t trying to sleep, having someone bellowing into the phone in the next room is irritating. (Apparently old fashioned phones piped your own voice back into your ear, which cut down on the urge to shout, but modern phones and cell phones don’t do that so it’s harder to “hear” yourself and that makes a lot of us turn up our own volume).
anon a mouse
Have you tried talking to him about it? I think it’s reasonable to ask if he means to sleep until noon, and also that you need to be able to go about your life even if it means making some noise. He may have some ideas. A white noise machine may be the answer.
Anon
In normal life & in COVID life I have to be at work at 6 am. I shower in the 4-5 am range. This is hours before my husband has to be up. It is what it is. I do the things I can do to mitigate waking him up… no snoozing the alarm, I don’t turn on lights in the bedroom, I put out all of my clothes and anything else I may need the night before. But when it comes to showering & in normal life blow drying my hair, sorry but that just is what it is. It is the price of admission to being with me & me keeping my job. I am one of those people that does not function well if I am not showered & ready to start the day and it sounds like you may be too. He can invest in ear plugs or white noise.
Anon
p.s. I should add often my husband is able to sleep through my showering, but I suppose it depends on your home set up.
AnonATL
My husband used to get up to go into work a solid 2 hours before I would. He also would frequently have to get up for military reserve duty on weekends super early at like 4am.
We both would shower at night so there’s no hair drying or showering noises, but I never expected him to not make coffee, feed the dogs, watch tv in the living room, etc. Sometimes it would wake me up, and I’d be a little gumpy but most of the time I slept right through it once I got used to the noise. He would keep the lights off in the bedroom and close the door which buffered enough noise for me to sleep even if more lightly than before.
I love to sleep so I can empathize with your partner, but I think 10am is more than reasonable. Is he required to work those hours or is that just his normal rhythm? I also like the suggestion of a white noise machine or ear plugs even if you only use it for the portion of the morning when your schedules conflict.
I’d definitely talk about it, because it’s not exactly fair if you are the only one tip-toeing around him.
Ribena
I was a quasi-lodger for a while and the people I lived with got woken up and annoyed by my boiling the kettle to make coffee… at 7.30am. I was unimpressed.
AnonATL
Maybe I’m just a heavier sleeper because my mom used to think 7am on a Saturday was a great time to unload the dishwasher :)
As an adult, I get wanting to have housework done, but the banging pots and pans were the worst. It can wait till people start waking up. Making coffee on the other hand is a reasonable and basically silent activity.
Anon
I start work 2 hours before my spouse gets up and my desk is in our bedroom. I shower and make coffee when I get dressed, but don’t schedule any calls before 9 (even though I start working at 7). Basically my only concession is that I don’t turn on the overhead light (super easy now that it’s light at 6am) and I mute my phone so there aren’t constant notifications.
Thanks, It Has Pockets!
Nah, 9AM is a totally reasonable time to be up, working, taking calls, and making noise. If he wants to sleep later, he can figure out a way to block out the noise.
“John, I’ve been trying to be considerate of your sleep schedule, but that doesn’t seem sustainable in the long-term. I’d like to start showering, blow drying my hair, and taking work calls before 10AM. If the noise bothers you, we can get you ear plugs or look into a white noise machine so you can keep sleeping.”
It would be one thing if he was coming home at 7AM and really needed to sleep through the morning, but he’s choosing to sleep in just because he can. And hey, that’s not a big deal, you’re not trying to judge! But you also don’t need to go out of your way to accommodate that choice.
Anon
Well, last night, or I guess this morning, I worked until 3Am. I woke up when my husband was getting up around 7, but went back to sleep. He took a shower and did his normal stuff without waking me. When I came to bed at 3AM I still washed my face and brushed my teeth and changed into PJs, I just did it as quietly as possible and without shining any light in his face (for instance only turning the light on in the en suite bathroom when the door is all the way closed). This is pretty much our usual pattern
10am sounds like a good compromise to me for your specific hours. But your husband needs to learn to sleep through more stuff if he wants to sleep 11 hours a day.
Anon
First – just check if he’ll wake up if you do your thing, or if he’ll just sleep through it. He might not notice!
I’m guessing you might be a light sleeper, and that you’re being as considerate as you want him to be. If he has had only 3-5 hours of sleep when you start, you really need to be quiet. But if your noisy things are after 8 and you believe he’s had 6+ hours of sleep, try and see what happens. Maybe he won’t notice. Maybe he’ll notice and immediately fall asleep again. Maybe you ruined his day this once. But as of now, you don’t know, and you need this information.
I have a sleep disorder with delayed sleep, and a partner’s sleep schedule is on my deal breaker list. I will never be able to enjoy time together with an “early bird”, and I get very, very ill with sleep disruptions. But after a certain point during the night (having more or less passed out from fatigue with a noisy partner) I will certainly not wake from somebody showering. If you try and engage or talk to me I’ll change the locks, though.
Anon
For the past year I have experienced severe allergy symptoms entirely in my sinuses…constantly stuffed up and blowing my nose. Even in the winter it was very bad. I’ve had seasonal allergies since I was a kid but this is next level. I have seen my doctor several times, tried multiple OTC and prescription medications, nasal sprays, etc. I went to an allergist for testing right before quarantine but that was mostly a bust because the only thing I reacted to was mould. I was pretty surprised considering I’ve always experienced seasonal allergies. The allergist couldn’t explain my symptoms and said I may have some other sinus issue that isn’t allergies. Has anyone experienced this?? I need to go back to the doctor of course, but in the meantime I’m really frustrated. It feels like I have a cold every day. Is it possible to be allergic and not react to the skin prick test?
Anon
Do you have a pet?
OP
Nope, and I have never reacted to animals.
givemyregards
I have this same issue – my body responds to physical things in the air (pollen, dust, and when it’s humid) as if I’m allergic to them, even though I’m not actually. I had the same experience at the allergist where I didn’t react to anything, which even surprised the doc considering how swollen/stuffy I am. Nasal sprays didn’t work too well for me (though I’ve heard they work for other people), but sinus rinsing helps – it just physically gets the gunk out which helps. I also take a “pressure and pain” sudafed (or similar brand – advil, tylenol, etc. all make one) which helps will the nasal passage swelling and constant sinus headache.
Anon
This- it’s called nonallergic rhinitis. The symptoms are pretty much the same as allergies, but it’s driven by a physical or chemical irritation rather than an immune reaction. My nose also runs when it’s cold or when I eat. Unfortunately, it’s much harder to treat. I’ve had some luck with atrovent nasal spray and there are some other nasal sprays that can help nonallegic rhinitis (steroids and an antihistamine), though they haven’t helped me. Sudafed also helps, but keeps me from sleeping and raises my heart rate and blood pressure so it’s not great to take regularly.
Anon
I should add, I’ve had the best luck by trying to keep triggers under control. I use an air purifier in my bedroom, change the sheets weekly, run a roomba several times a week (preferably when I’m not home or at least not in the room). I don’t use anything scented. This helps a lot.
Allergy
I had a similar experience. I switched to another allergist who expanded the panel for patch testing to include more cosmetic and food allergens.
OP
That’s interesting, I have definitely had skin reactions to cosmetics over the years, but I’ve never been able to pinpoint the trigger. Like I’ll randomly get hives from using body wash or whatever. I wonder if I’m reacting to something I’m using!
Airplane.
Have you seen an ENT? When you say your doc I hope you mean ENT and not your PCP/GP. My ENT was able to disagnose my sinus problems much better than my GP or allergist.
Also, have you been tested for asthma? Surprisingly, I was diagnosed with asthma though I’ve never had an ashtma attack. And allergy inhaler actually helped with my sinuses a lot and prevented sinus infections and post nasal drip and constant CONSTANT stuffy nose.
OP
I’m Canadian so this was my family doctor (GP), I would have to be referred to see a specialist. Maybe that’s the next step.
JTM
You should see an ENT. You could have a chronic sinus infection or some other issue and an ENT is best to diagnose & treat that.
Anonymous
If you reacted to mold, have you had your residence tested? How do you know that you don’t have a mold issue?
NY CPA
I could have written this myself. It’s gotten awful since March 2019, around the time when I moved into a new apartment, so I wonder if that might have something to do with it for me. However, I still get symptoms at other peoples’ houses so not sure if that is it. Did you have any major life changes around the time it started? The only thing I’ve found that helps me is Nascort 1-2x / day. Helps prevent massive headaches, but still get some symptoms.
Anon
You should see an immunologist and get tested for immune deficiency. Chronic sinusitis is an important symptom of primary immune deficiency and a few quick blood tests can provide more info.
Nesprin
Yes, it’s very possible to be allergic and not react to a skin test. Likewise the things you’re most allergic to may not make the greatest wheals. Likewise, likewise, if your immune system is already reacting to molds, everything else gets more sensitive and worse.
If its allergies, steroids/antihistamines should have some effect- Have you ever done a course of steroids to try to calm things down?
Anon
Frivolous question for your Friday – are tablecloths completely outdated? I’ve never used one or even considered using one – until now. My dining room table was given to me as a second hand gift about 5 years ago. I had just graduated and didn’t have matching furniture, and didn’t care. I’m finally starting to create a home aesthetic and the table really doesn’t match. It’s a brown marble. Is a tablecloth an option? Are they old lady-ish?
Eek
Ha, I’ve literally never considered this! I use them but maybe I’m outdated and I didn’t even know it. We use placemats too, it just depends on what we’re using it for and what is clean.
Z
I say do a tablecloth. My parents have a tablecloth on their dining room table pretty much all the time – its only used at holidays, the rest of the year its piled with papers and more recently my sister’s sewing machine.
If anything else, a tablecloth protects the table from scratches so its in good condition if you ever want to sell it.
The original Scarlett
They aren’t the most current look for every day, but if you picked a cool fabric it could work. FWIW, dining tables are one of the easiest things to get free or cheap on Craigslist/ FB free. I don’t know why, there’s always a lot (my theory is they are hard to fit in new spaces so a lot of getting rid of them when people move), If you’re not into your hand me down one, that could be a budget way to change it out.
Anom
I like to use a table cloth, mostly because my table that I was so thrilled about buying right after getting married has now gotten seriously scratched up between two kiddos and moving twice since buying it. First mover resulted in a corner getting a small chunk chipped off. The table was from crate and barrel, solid, not veneer. I don’t think I’d buy a table from there again.
emeralds
I love tablecloths! They’re such a fun way to dress a table or change the vibe of a room. (And also practical, because you can just throw them in the washing machine.) Lots of places will have options in modern, interesting fabrics. Check out Anthropologie, Williams Sonoma, Crate & Barrel, and possibly Target but they will be more hit or miss, etc.
Lana Del Raygun
I mean, chintz is old-fashioned, but not tablecloths themselves. Get a simple solid color or a more contemporary print that matches the rest of your decor! Personally I love tablecloths as a way to rotate seasonal decor.
anon
I think they’re outdated, but I’ve used a plain white tablecloth for a fancy meal. Our table is hand-me-down from MIL. It’s a nice table, and we’re planning to refinish it and keep using it. For now, Kiddo is actively contributing to the scratches and water stains that DH and his sister started as kids. I figure we can keep it the way it is for a few years and just use a tablecloth when we want to feel fancy.
Airplane.
I think they are outdated. I think a modern table runner is a better look. But honestly, you can do a table cloth in a modern way too. It’s about the look of the table as a whole, not one single piece.
No Face
I use tablecloths. Our dining table is a free hand me down that is very high quality but needs to be refinished. Tablecloths are cheaper than a table and easier that refinishing.
I love them! They are made in all kinds of fabrics so it’s easy to avoid a grandma look. I get lots of compliments. I also like shaking out the cloth and tossing it in the hamper after a messy meal instead of having to clean a table.
Anonymous
I, on other hand, would rather wipe the table than maintain a tablecloth
gouda
I don’t love the look but use them anyway because they’re so practical. We have a wood table and I was constantly policing kids/ spouse/ self about using coasters when we put drinks on it. With a table cloth I’m able to use the protective pads that came with the table and we don’t need to worry about coasters, etc. Honestly, I’m not sure how people serve food on wood without a table cloth. [Table is about 50 years old, purchased at Arhaus by my father, so new, protective finishes may have come into play that I don’t know about.]
Anon
Probably they’re outdated. But I have an pseudo laminated oil cloth in a designer fabric that I tell myself is a deliberate vintage aesthetic choice.
Anonymous
If the choice is between brown marble tabletop and tablecloth, the latter is much more contemporary.
Ribena
I use one because I don’t want to make any more water marks on my table – it’s a hand-me-down from my grandad’s house with a thick wooden top. Mine is a big sheet of heavy cotton in a mid-blue colour, from IKEA.
Formerly Lilly
As someone who loves table linens, I think it depends. Solid colored cloths read as old fashioned to me, unless it’s A classic white damask or linen under china and then it depends on the china, the flowers, etc. As someone who loves table linens, I’ve done that look maybe half a dozen times at most, and find that my wildest and craziest friends are more subdued at a table that is set like that. My preference is non-twee patterns, usually with a tablecloth, bamboo woven chargers, and a runner, all layered, with solid color napkins and pottery type dishes. Favorite sources are Ten Thousand Villages, Pottery Barn, and Williams Sonoma.
Anonymous
Spoonflower has some great modern prints.
Senior Attorney
So… if tablecloths are outdated (this is news to me but I’m Very Old), then what do people use? Just dishes on a bare table? Placemats?
Anon
Placemats. I think if tablecloths as old fashioned, but it could be because my mom loves tablecloths.
Gail the Goldfish
Placemats. Honestly the only time I can remember seeing a tablecloth used is holidays at my grandmother’s growing up. I don’t recall my parents ever using them.
anonshmanon
I find placemats way more unfashionable than a nice, white table cloth.
Anon Probate Atty
I don’t think they’re outdated, but it depends on your style. I don’t see them used in houses with a “modern” aesthetic – more used by those of us with eclectic or traditional styles. I personally have some that I love from Pottery Barn, although I only use them for holidays.
Delta Dawn
A good modern take on a tablecloth is a “table throw.” This is like a tablecloth but is casually draped across most of the table rather than neatly covering the entire table like a traditional tablecloth. You can also use a regular tablecloth (in a subtle pattern–pale blue buffalo check for instance) and a modern table throw draped artfully over it (say a brighter blue and pink leaf pattern). Table throws often have fringe or tassels. Target has a lot of good, cheap options for this right now. Here are links to two I used on the table I set for Mother’s Day:
Tablecloth (used as base, bottom layer):
https://www.target.com/p/60-34-x104-34-check-tablecloth-blue-threshold-8482/-/A-77601141?ref=tgt_adv_XS000000&AFID=google_pla_df&fndsrc=tgtao&CPNG=PLA_Dining%2BShopping_Brand&adgroup=SC_Dining&LID=700000001170770pgs&network=g&device=c&location=9061285&ds_rl=1246978&ds_rl=1247068&ds_rl=1248099&gclid=CjwKCAjw2uf2BRBpEiwA31VZj3J6xo5RMK60t2arq5fEsZ_RPbpesWCo1Ry_HTVlMlr1Uv8AwJHJRRoC4X8QAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds
Topped with this table throw (this one is labeled as a “square tablecloth”):
https://www.target.com/p/52-34-cotton-floral-square-tablecloth-blue-opalhouse-8482/-/A-78204071
Anon
My kids dug out an old white linen tablecloth and ironed and put it on the table for Mother’s Day for me. It was so pretty and totally changed the look and feel of the dining room to more like a fancy restaurant, which is what they were going for.
I thought to myself, “why don’t we use tablecloths more often?”
Two days and many unsightly stains later, I remembered why.
Placemats for the win.
Anon
To add – I don’t like the look of placemats so we bought some that are thin and as close to the color of the table as possible. You can’t really see them from the next room. We just use them to protect the surface of the table.
Anonymous
Tips for improving focus? As I’ve become more senior, I’m working on more and more matters rather than working a lot of hours on a few matters. I find myself bouncing back and forth frantically trying to keep up with competing urgent demands. It’s hard to focus on any one task because I’m thinking about the 10 other calls and emails that are coming in at the same time. I feel like I’m drowning every day. I’m also losing efficiency because of all the bouncing around, so I’m billing like 8 hours for 12 hours worked. I really need to offload tasks but there’s no one to offload to because everyone else is either super busy or too junior. Help?
anon
No advice but I’m the same. So much time is lost in my day just bouncing between matters. I think some of this is a just a fact for working as s senior person. The senior partner in my group told me he needs 12 hours to bill 8 hours (and he’s been doing this for 30+ years). I still struggle with feeling overwhelmed and like I’m working insanely long days… only to have just 8 actual billable hours (I write a lot of non-billable content like client alerts etc too, or at least I edit what the juniors write, which almost takes longer.)
Anonymous
I”m a little amused that a) you’re asking this of a bunch of people who are on an online forum on a workday morning and b) none of us are really replying with anything helpful.
Maybe we’re all in the same boat. : )
Pilot
At 56, I’m in the same boat, but I hadn’t been attributing it to being more senior. I thought it was connected to anxiety from all the competing stresses of managing so many people + all the issues we are facing in 2020. Here’s what I do. Having learned that Fighter Pilots go through an extensive, detailed checklist before they take off, I starting creating “Fighter Pilot checklists” for myself that break down tasks in the most minor way. The goal is to complete them consecutively. Example: Throw empty water bottle in recycle can. Put pens in drawer. Hook phone up to charger. Listen to recording of Smith interview/ transcribe. Heat up lunch. Clean counter. And after each one, cross it off your list for a sense of accomplishment. Works for me. I need to log off and go make my list right now.
sleep
+1
I am 50 and have similar problems. This is a very very common problem with the aging brain.
I was a crazy good multi-tasker when I was younger, and often had two phones going and was writing on the computer at the same time. I don’t know how I did it. But even then I still made checklists.
As I get older, I have to have clear checklists.
Other things that can help – larger / multiple computer screens. You must get enough sleep. Caffeine, but not too much – with aging you can also become more sensitive to caffeine and if it throws your anxiety overboard then your attention will falter. Decrease stress (yeah, right…..!). Scheduled breaks in your work flow to get up, walk around a little, and ideally, once during the day walk outside or exercise or do a brief 1-2 minute breathing mindfulness mediation. And of course – treat your anxiety, if you have it.
And scribbling things off checklists as they get accomplished feels so good!
anon
I think she meant more senior in her career :)
Wish I had some advice, but I’ve been suffering from the same problem.
sleep
:0
Saguaro
I am mid-50’s and have found this as well. What works for me is to try not to multi-task, and focus on one-thing at a time. This is easier to do than you might think, but it does require me to keep reminding myself to focus only on the one task. And I used to be an expert multi-tasker when I was younger!
I also started taking Ginkgo Biloba every day, and I feel like that has helped as well.
Bee
Asked previously but looking for new recommendations for child masks? Adults masks are too big on my 5 year old plus they’d never appreciate the Johnny Was versions.
Anonymous
We got some from BlaqPaks on the recommendation of someone here. My daughter is seven and she really likes them. They have new patterns each week, so we check back every once in awhile and have found a couple of different designs she likes.
If you scroll down the page with adult masks, there’s a link to the kids masks.
The only thing is they have flannel backs, so are a little much for hot weather. We also found lighter-weight ones at Bella Beach Kids.
In addition we ordered kid-size buffs from REI, which she much prefers to the mask for bike riding and running around outside.
Anonymous
We just got some old navy that are great.
Cat
Target has some that are child size available online.
Anon
Toughcookieclothing on Etsy has solid colored child sized masks. We’ve ordered from her a few times. Her customer service is excellent. In our last order she mistakenly shorted us 2 masks from a 3 pack and she sent the others out without hassle.
Anonymous
You might try Jaanuu. We’re waiting for our order from them to arrive.
Anon
I really liked the masks I just got from Athleta (more breathable than others I’ve tried, but still two layers). They have a child size pack.
Anon
Primary just started selling kids’ masks. They’re not as cute as I would have expected from Primary, but they’re not hideous.
Anon
Yesterday someone floated the idea of a ‘rette book club. I’d like to try to organize it, although I’ve never done one before. I was thinking at first, we might just chat in a threadjack here, and if folks want to move to a different forum (like zoom), we’ll sort it out later.
But we would need to choose books. If interested parties want to list suggestions here, I can compile it into an online poll. Then we start with the book most people voted for.
So, if you are interested in participating, please reply with a book or two and why you think they would be good for a book club. If you are not planning to read with us, I would appreciate keeping your recommendations elsewhere, but obviously that is not enforced in any way.
ArenKay
I’d be up for this. Thread jack seems easiest, especially given time differences. I’d propose Matthew Desmond’s Evicted, mostly because I’ve been meaning to read it for a couple years, and it seems relevant for the times we are in now. Thanks for getting this started!
Carmen Sandiego
I’m interested and suggest: The Girl with the Louding Voice (pub. Feb. 2020). It is written by a WOC and has really good reviews on Goodreads. Here is the description from Goodreads:
A powerful, emotional debut novel told in the unforgettable voice of a young Nigerian woman who is trapped in a life of servitude but determined to fight for her dreams and choose her own future.
Adunni is a fourteen-year-old Nigerian girl who knows what she wants: an education. This, her mother has told her, is the only way to get a “louding voice”—the ability to speak for herself and decide her own future. But instead, Adunni’s father sells her to be the third wife of a local man who is eager for her to bear him a son and heir.
When Adunni runs away to the city, hoping to make a better life, she finds that the only other option before her is servitude to a wealthy family. As a yielding daughter, a subservient wife, and a powerless slave, Adunni is told, by words and deeds, that she is nothing.
But while misfortunes might muffle her voice for a time, they cannot mute it. And when she realizes that she must stand up not only for herself, but for other girls, for the ones who came before her and were lost, and for the next girls, who will inevitably follow; she finds the resolve to speak, however she can—in a whisper, in song, in broken English—until she is heard.
Isabela the She Wolf
I have 2 suggestions:
The Understory by Richard Powers, a novel about trees, acclaimed by the likes of Annie Proulx.
The Three-body Problem by Cixin Liu, a science fiction novel in translation, which has been a stand-out bestseller in China.
Anon Probate Atty
I am interested! I would like to propose Americanah and Nothing to See Here; both were recommended on here and I’ve been meaning to read them.
Anon
Americanah is fantastic. My book club read it last year.
Anon
I would propose Say Nothing. I just finished it and it was SO good.
RILawyer
So did I! I thought it was fascinating. I learned so much more about the Troubles than I ever knew. What a horrific time in Northern Ireland. I found the general attitude of the interviewees about Gerry Adams surprising and enlightening.
Anon Probate Atty
I read that too, and thought it was fascinating.
anonchicago
I’d be in! I’ve actually done a few book clubs with people I met virtually and they’ve been interesting experiences.
Girl with the louding voice and Americanah are on my reading list as well so open to those. Other suggestions: White Fragility, Insurrecto, These Women, The Mercies.
Senior Attorney
I’m interested. And if you’d like something lighter, I propose Such a Fun Age by Kiley Reid. Lots of contemporary issues including race and class and social media and working moms and how we so often just talk past one another.
Anon
I just got that off the library holds list and I am so pumped to read.
anon
I loved this book, one of my favorite reads of the year.
Anon
+1 It really resonated with me.
Anon
I’m interested and just filled out the survey – thanks!
Anon
Thanks guys- these all look like great options! I opened up an online poll where you can vote, and I will post the results on monday.
https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/TH2V593
Anon Probate Atty
Thank you for doing this! How many books should we vote for? Just 1?
Anon
More than 1 is fine- I intentionally set it up so that you can vote for all the ones you like. But if you vote for everything, that won’t help us choose ;)
Diana Bishop
I’d be in thanks! I’d suggest Small Island as Andrea Levy is a WOC, the book is about Jamaicans in World War 2. Talking about the book she said “I want to tell stories from the black and white experience. It is a shared history.”
Also Dune which I’ve been meaning to read before the film and is a classic.
Anon
I would like to participate but I’m so out of whatever is current I have no recommendation! That’s why I need a book club.
Anon
Reported on accident when trying to collapse replies. Sorry!
Anon
I know this is a dead thread, but just in case anyone is still checking:
Our first book will be Evicted by Mathew Desmond. It was actually the runner-up, but I found that the winner, Such a Fun Age, would be very difficult to get from libraries or independent bookstores. Evicted is more widely available. https://www.powells.com/book/evicted-9780553447453/1-0
Most people voted that we “meet” monthly, while a large minority preferred biweekly. As a compromise, I propose we read one book a month, with a mid-term discussion of early thoughts on the beginning of the book and then a broader discussion of the whole book.
TLDR: Book club is reading Evicted by Mathew Desmond. Preliminary discussion July 23, discussion main discussion August 7.
Anon
Correction, June 23rd and July 7!
Sorry for the confusing error.
LaurenB
Regarding the discussion the other day of what white people should and should not say to their friends of color in this moment – are we not original enough? if we say the wrong thing, do we cause more offense? if we say nothing, is it because we’re obnoxiously content in our privilege or because we’re appropriately giving POC a space? Here’s a perfect example of “can’t win for losing” from today’s NY Times. This gentleman’s friends are saying things to him along the lines of “I’m reaching out, I care for you, I’m sorry the world is so racist and things are so awful right now” — acknowledging the situation – and they end with “don’t feel you need to respond” which is *considerate,* allowing him to decide whether he wants to emote or not — and he’s *offended* by that, because his friends showing an expression of caring and also giving him the out that he doesn’t hae to engage on the topic with them unless he wants to is *silencing* him. My god. Yep, darned if you do, darned if you don’t.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/05/opinion/whites-anti-blackness-protests.html?action=click&module=Opinion&pgtype=Homepage
Anonymous
Well, while I don’t disagree with the issue, your post pretty clearly highlights the problem of white fragility. Like, black people literally cannot live, and now you want to police how they respond to well meaning white people who benefit from the system.
Really examine why you felt your perspective on this needed to be shared.
Monte
Lord, yes. One black guy publishes a think piece and the take away is “White people can’t win”? Seriously?
If you have any black friends, which seems unlikely, think about this article in the context of that relationship and that friend’s personality. Does it jibe? Do you think a different approach is better? If your friend tells you your behavior didn’t fit her needs, can you readjust without handwringing and thinking about how unfair it is to you?
Senior Attorney
“Really examine why you felt your perspective on this needed to be shared.”
Oh, Lord. I think this, like, a hundred times a day lately. Looking at you, white people on my Facebook feed tut-tutting about “looters.”
Anon
Because white people think their opinions are the most important opinions that must ALWAYS be prioritized and need to drown out the annoying opinions, experiences, or considerations of POC individuals who may actually have relevant lived experience when considering an event, question, etc.
I’ve had to do a lot of self-reflection in the last few years about sitting back and letting others who have more lived experience speak up. I’m not perfect at it, but at least I recognize I default to “I should share my opinion!” and make a serious attempt to just shut up.
Anonymous
It’s the “don’t feel you need to respond” thing. It’s a control the conversation cue that doesn’t need to be there. (I’m white and that bugs me.) Why not just say something human like “I hate how much pain continues to be out there” and leave it at that and the person can choose if they want to engage without being told to? If someone said “I’m sorry your dad died” and ended it with “don’t feel you need to respond” can you see how that’s actually shutting down response? It’s also making it sound like whether the conversation should continue is in the speaker’s level of interest not joint or the recipient. Why say it to begin with?
Anon
I didn’t realize that some people viewed that phrase as controlling the conversation. Currently I’m going through a difficult emotional time (a close family member dying), and I have appreciated people who text or call and end the message with “no need to respond if you don’t want to” just because I’ve been dealing with many pushy family members who demand a lot of information, and it’s nice to feel like someone isn’t going to be mad at me when I don’t respond to them. Sometimes I respond to the call or text and sometimes I don’t. Just providing some anecdata for when it’s appreciated and well intentioned.
Your post gives me some food for thought on that phrase for the future to consider first what the specific circumstance is and whether it seems to fit. Thank you!
anon
I think it depends on context. Yes, it’s a common saying. If it’s a text about something unimportant/nonurgent and I know the recipient is busy or tied up, or for some reason not likely inclined to respond, I’d say it so they don’t feel obligated to do so right away. (Like when I send my sister anecdotes of the cute thing my dog did with pictures to brighten her day when I know she’s under pressure at work.) But here, it feels patronizing, especially where the speaker is intentionally acknowledging their privilege and the recipient’s lack of privilege. When you say “please don’t feel like you have to respond,” it sounds like the speaker is releasing the recipient of some duty. What duty? The duty to thank white person for writing out a short note that acknowledges something horrid but doesn’t really do much? To validate white person for acknowledging what’s happening?
Anon at 10:49
That definitely makes sense– I’m glad I saw this discussion and read the op ed above.
Anon
I’m the first to admit that as a white person I shouldn’t be sharing my feelings on how that phrase makes a black person feel in this context. But I have been in the situation of grieving a parent, and I don’t find that phrase offensive at all in that context. It honestly never occurred to me that it “shuts down conversation.” I have used it, and been the recipient and I have always interpreted it kindly. I disagree that there is no duty to respond to someone who reaches out to say “I’m sorry for your loss.” It’s generally expected that you would reply and thank the person for their condolences, so them telling you that they don’t expect a response does relieve you of an obligation. Perhaps it could phrased a little bit better like “Please don’t feel like you have to respond, but I’m always here to listen if you want to talk.” But I don’t think it’s rude even without the second clause.
LaurenB
Thank you. This is exactly it. This is how people respond when trying to tell others “I support you and I’m here if you want to talk and totally cool if you don’t want to either.” It’s the positive addendum to a message of support – that I seek to support you in the way that works best for you
Hmm
I think this is a situation where you have to know your friend, and I don’t think it’s fair to assume that this opinion is shared by others. I hope that people would appreciate a supportive text even if it doesn’t say exactly what they wish it did.
As a general matter, I think the internet loves a “what not to say when someone is experiencing …” article — regardless of the topic because it’s so easy to come up with reasons why someone’s actions are not the correct ones. I agree that there articles are hard to take when your intentions are good. I’ve seen similar articles written by people who have experienced the loss of a loved one, and I admit that they left me feeling as torn as I do now – saying nothing seems to be the worst thing to do, but it’s so easy to say the wrong thing too.
Anonymous
I think it’s fine to acknowledge as human beings that it’s often difficult to know what to say in certain situations and that good intentions can be ill received.
HOWEVER, let’s also acknowledge that it’s racist to decide you need to reach out to your black coworker so that he/she can do the emotional labor of making you feel better during this difficult time. If you reach out to them and *can’t deal* with an honest response, that’s on you.
Are we married to/promoting the narrative that black people are oversensitive or what the heck is going on here? Are we saying as a white savior, asking a black person how they are must be met with gratitude? What is really going on here? Can we stop with the white fragility of *OMG my well intentioned comment was poorly received and I can’t even imagine that there’s a legitimate reason why*
Anon
No, but I do think it’s reasonable to want to understand what is helpful vs not helpful. I think the problem is we are all trying to figure out what is “helpful” to all black people and obviously it is going to vary by person and relationship. Sometimes a text is supportive. sometimes it isn’t. There’s no magic pill here.
Anonymous
The idea that there’s a correct thing to all black people is bad enough, but the indignation of “well, there’s nothing right to say to black people because they just can’t appreciate my comments” is terrible :(
Anon at 10:46
Well that’s not what I said AT ALL. My point is that different people will feel supported and not supported in different ways. You need to look at the person and your relationship with them just like you would in any other situation.
Anonymous
I’m responding to LaurenB’s comment about it more than the article itself. In which she says it’s an example of “can’t win for losing” and “regarding the discussion the other day” (which was more of the same about how white people can’t get anything right because people don’t take it kindly).
Anonymous
The magic pill is to talk to them just like you would in order to have a normal conversation with a normal person. It’s weird to need extensive advice/coaching and nitpick every detail though it’s certainly fine to think about what you’re saying and be responsive to what the other person says. What if they respond in a way that’s normal for someone who’s hurting? Wow, figure it out, as the reason you asked is presumably because you knew or suspected they were hurting. What if they don’t appreciate your effort — well, really think about that, are they allowed to say something that reflects that they are having a bad day? Are they keen to the fact that you’re asking because you’re making assumptions about what it means for them to be black/are they annoyed because they don’t know you like that? Etc.
LaurenB
Who said the friends that reached out to this man couldn’t have dealt with his honest response, whether it was “I want to talk about it” or “I don’t wish to talk about it”? He was too busy being offended by a common turn of phrase. It’s a phrase often used when offering support – I’m here for you if and when you want me.
Anonymous
You said “regarding the discussion the other day.” Why don’t you look back on it/them again for reference?
anon
You are desperate to invalidate this man’s feelings, aren’t you? Please consider why you’re so invested in this.
Anonymous
But it also indicates I have said what I want to you and am not particularly interested in what you might have to say/how you are/certainly not beyond a similarly polite “common turn of phrase”
Anonymous
Right which is why I go back to, don’t do anything. You can never win when everything you say is wrong or you didn’t say it with the right emotion or right look or whatever. I know that people say it’s a good lesson in what other people live with daily, well then they can keep living with it, I’m not engaging in it.
Anon
Wow are you a piece of work.
Anonymous
You weren’t actually *doing* anything in the first place. It’s definitely not someone else’s job to engage with you and teach you something you don’t want to learn.
Anon
Amen.
anon
How exactly would you like POC to supplicate to you so that you will grace them with your empathy?
Anon
Hey, PSA to white women, from another white woman: It’s not all about you. As this comment says, POC don’t have to thank you for the absolute bare minimum you do, and they sure as hell don’t have to work to please you, especially when you want them to respond in the exact way you think they SHOULD respond. Get a f-ing grip and get over yourself.
So often, white women want the focus to be back on them- to say how woke they are, to say “not all white women,” to say that they aren’t like THAT white woman, they’re ashamed to be a white woman, make it clear that they are better than those OTHER women, when really, unless someone is being anti-racist, THEY ARE PART OF THE PROBLEM. It’s not enough to distance yourself from white women who suck. You actually have to be willing to do the work yourself and have hard discussions about race, privilege, and internalized feelings of superiority and self-centeredness.
Senior Attorney
Holy cow you’re awful.
Anon
LaurenB, you’re giving up way too easily. Did you think that being anti-racist was one and done? That if someone doesn’t like your Instagram post, you should just give up on the whole thing and write it off while telling yourself that you tried? It’s an enormous privilege to be able to do that, to brush it aside the second someone criticizes you or encourages you to do better.
Personally, I’m glad that we are having the conversation. White people need to start giving a sh*t all of the time, but if their best effort is #blackoutTuesday with caption “I see you. I am mute. I am listening.” before going back to regularly scheduled programming, then yeah, that’s not enough. It’s not original. It doesn’t show you care or that you bothered to have any thoughts about it. It looks like you reposted something from one of your white friends.
What I have enjoyed seeing is personalized posts that do anything of the following: point out content by black artists, intellectuals, athletes, or whatever other population based on what kind of social media account it is, list actionable steps that white people can take like buying certain books or donating to causes, and/or honest reflections and reports of personal experiences. Is it always perfect? No. Does it have to be? No. But you do have to f*cking try.
Anonymous
Yes, asking “how are you” then getting upset when the answer is not “fine, thanks for asking” is not doing anything positive at all.
LaurenB
That’s a mischaracterization of this man’s NYT opinion piece. He never said his friends were upset if he had any response other than “fine, thanks for asking.” No one here has said or suggested that they don’t want to hear anything other than “fine, thanks for asking.”
Anonymous
No, you framed it as “regarding the discussion the other day” & black people aren’t responding nicely enough to us.
Anonymous
Honey, look at YOUR original comment. The piece is valid and I respect the author’s opinion.
Anon
To your third paragraph, my local wine bar has been posting information about black-owned wineries, and some vintage clothing accounts I follow on Instagram have been highlighting black designers. I think the personalization of it in some way does matter – they’ve at least done some research.
Anonymous
Okay, but this is ONE person’s opinion. You’re never going to make everyone happy, whether it’s in working to be anti-racist or choices at your wedding. The point is not to make everyone happy. The point is to do better and learn/unlearn.
Ask your BIPOC friends what they want/need from you, don’t assume. BIPOC are not a monolith who all want the same thing. They are individuals with preferences, emotions, etc., just like everyone else. I don’t understand why it’s hard to say hey, I am not sure how I can help you during this time, how can I best support you and what would you like me to do as a white friend? Tell them that you know it is not their job to teach you anything, and you are only reaching out as a friend who wants to be supportive but doesn’t know how.
In re: what to do on social media, do what you are comfortable with and be open to learning from others. Amplify BIPOC voices – that means reposting from BIPOC and not white people. That means following BIPOC educators and activitsts to open up your feed to voices you may not have been historically hearing. It means listening and sharing things that are beneficial to people like you – sharing BIPOC-owned businesses, doing your best to share information that is factual and relevant (but if you make a mistake sometimes, THAT’S OKAY – the important part is learning from it), etc.
It’s the opposite of helpful for white people to throw their hands up in in the air and go, WELP I can’t get it right what do you want from me, and then do nothing. We need to get over ourselves.
LaurenB
“I don’t understand why it’s hard to say hey, I am not sure how I can help you during this time, how can I best support you and what would you like me to do as a white friend?”
That’s exactly what his friends DID say – we love you, we are here for you, we will engage if you want us to and we will let you be if you don’t wish to. It was caring outreach.
Anonymous
No, because they indicated that they weren’t open to conversation. But also, “what can I do as a WHITE friend?” — I hope The NY Times tackles that one next.
anon
Did you read the article you linked? That’s not what they said. Here is the quote:
““Hi friend. I just wanted to reach out and let you know I love you and so deeply appreciate you in my life and your stories in the world. And I’m so sorry. This country is deeply broken and sick and racist. I’m sorry. I think I’m tired; meanwhile I’m sleeping in my Snuggie of white privilege. I love you and I’m here to fight and be useful in any way I can be. **Heart emojis**”
Almost every message ends with seven oppressive words — “Don’t feel like you need to respond.””
None of this reads like caring outreach.
Anonymous
That’s not at all what they did. This is the quote from the piece:
“Hi friend. I just wanted to reach out and let you know I love you and so deeply appreciate you in my life and your stories in the world. And I’m so sorry. This country is deeply broken and sick and racist. I’m sorry. I think I’m tired; meanwhile I’m sleeping in my Snuggie of white privilege. I love you and I’m here to fight and be useful in any way I can be.
That is NOT AT ALL, “Hi, I don’t know how best to support you right now. What is the best thing I can do for you?”
If you can’t see the difference you are being wilfully ignorant. The first is centering the white person, the latter is centering the black person.
anon
Have you never had a situation where you said what you felt was the right thing but a friend took it the wrong way? This is not a unique phenomenon to this situation. It’s impossible to know the right thing to say to anyone in any circumstance because human beings are complex beings.
Using that as an excuse to do nothing in this situation is really sh*tty. You may say the wrong thing, be ok with that. At least if you say the wrong thing, you aren’t going to get shot. Think about how absurd your complaint is in the context of everything going on in the world right now.
Anon
Why do you care so much about this one person? I’m really confused here.
Anonymous
She can’t support her original position that this guy typifies bad black behavior, so she’s trying to attack him personally.
anon
It would be cool if you had at least tried to consider why the “don’t feel the need to respond” was not actually considerate– which the author explained in detail– rather than insisting that his way of perceiving it is wrong and that, NO, the white people ARE in fact being considerate, harrumph.
You didn’t take in a single thing that this man wrote in his column and continued in your comment to superimpose your perceptions of how your message SHOULD be received and prioritize white people’s comfort over his. Come on.
“Yep, darned if you do, darned if you don’t.”
You poor baby.
anon
Yes, I thought the author provided a perfectly reasonable explanation for why that phrase bugs him. LaurenB’s analysis of it was totally unfair and dripping with white fragility. You don’t get to tell people how they feel. Either listen and learn or accept that you’re part of the problem.
Tired
As a non black POC, wow white people who are this fragile are annoying. I agree with Anon @ 10:43, I always appreciate specific resources, like books or places to donate, and highlighting things in your own world, whether thats black lawyer associations, black owned businesses, books on racism you’ve read, or anything else you could speak to. That NY Times writer isn’t representative of everyone you know, and if you know someone, you should be able to figure out how to talk to be – I know all you high powered lawyers/businesswomen/etc have people skills. It’s also nice to be a resource to your other white friends, so the one POC friend doesn’t get bombarded with requests. It’s just not this complicated.
I did worry a bit about what to post on Instagram and how to appear publicly and blah blah blah, but ultimately decided that I do the work where I can be most effective (at the work + in my own community) and post helpful, specific resources. More than posting, I often send specific, short, clearly written articles or posts to the people I know who it would be useful to, and all the research in the world shows that that is the most effective.
LaurenB
Here’s a concept. Maybe – just maybe – all black people are not the same (crazy thought), and some would appreciate a kind outreach from white friends and others would prefer the topic not be raised and therefore all of those “what to say/what not to say” articles are nonsense because POC are not a monolith?
Anon
LaurenB, I have liked some of your other posts that everyone else hated, but I have to say, you are digging an ugly hole here and it is NOT a good look. You are also treating POC as a monolith (despite your protests otherwise) because you read one article in one newspaper where a POC didn’t respond like the white person expected and saying “welp fuck it not worth trying with anyone.” I think you need to do some serious reflection about why you responded this way and why you felt the need to post this today.
Anonymous
Yes completely agree. Stop responding LaurenB. Be quiet. Listen. That is your personal job to do. You, specifically, should not reach out to anyone because you’re clearly hostile, defensive, and ignorant. Go read the case for reparations, the warmth of other sins, and white fragility and think about them and come back when you’ve done that.
Anon
Yep. I am not usually someone piling on LaurenB or Pure Imagination but this is a BAD look. Step back. Do some reading on how to be an anti-racist. Start with the book White Fragility. Reflect on your privilege as a white woman.
Anonymous
Wow. LaurenB you seriously need to step back and check yourself. String risk of a Karen moment coming.
Anonymous
Lauren B has been a karen forever, and i’m not sorry for piling on.
anon
Obviously you should treat your BIPOC friends (if you have any) however they as individuals want to be treated rather than getting incensed over one opinion. You’re the one who chose the latter.
Tired
Yeah I agree – why are you taking a nytimes opinion piece as the end all be all? It’s an editorial, by definition it’s just one persons opinion.
Anonymous
Why don’t you read your original comment here, which literally says you think the black man’s response was wrong, and tell us again how black people are allowed to have their own individual responses (as I think you do in the comment I’m responding to). Why don’t you just admit you were wrong instead of pretending your furthering your own argument. You were very wrong!!
Anon
That is literally what people are telling you about response to this article.
ArenKay
I just want to echo the recommendation several folks have made for you to read Robin DiAngelo’s White Fragility. As a white woman, I found that book really helpful for me to critique my own guilt and defensiveness around race and racism. Jonathan Capehart has a column up about his interview with her in today’s Washington Post; I think many white people should recognize themselves in the dynamics they discuss. I certainly do.
Anonymous
Lauren, I don’t always agree with what you post, but in this case, stop worrying about what other people think. You can’t make all the people happy all of time (per my mom). Be kind, most people will appreciate that even if it doesn’t meet their definition of perfect. And if they don’t, that’s on them.
Anon at 10:49
I somewhat disagree with this viewpoint. Do be kind, and most people will appreciate that. Being kind also involves doing your best. When I truly don’t want to hurt or offend someone and I learn that the words I’ve used do hurt or offend, then I am horrified and I come up with some other way to express kindness. Part of doing my best also means not using words that hurt or offend EVEN WHEN I know I had good intentions from the beginning and I liked my original phrasing.
Anon
This seems almost a little dismissive of the problem. Like, “well as long as you think you’ve tried, you’ve done your obligatory anti-racist work” which just isn’t true.
Anon
Yep it’s super dismissive.
Anonymous
I have no obligatory racist work to do. I take exception to the statement that “white people need to do the work.” Black people have lots of work to do as well, but’s it’s too politically incorrect to say that.
Monday
Black people have not already worked enough? It’s still their turn to do the work?
anon
So interesting to me how none of the comments claiming that it’s okay for white people to sit back and do nothing never have any logical arguments or facts in support… just victim-like excuses for why they either shouldn’t have to lift a finger or why they cannot articulate their positions.
anon
………….what? White people created the problem and you think it’s on black people to fix it? You can fuck all the way off.
Anon
Clearly you do have some work to do, unless you’re OK with being racist, which it seems like you are.
Monday
+1. Being “kind” isn’t enough. Be anti-racist.
Anonymous
At the bottom of that article, there’s a link to another op-ed titled “Check in on Your Black Employees Now.”
Anonymous
Right under his closing lines: “If you’re feeling the need to check on me as your black friend, don’t. I’ll let you know what I need. If you don’t get a message from me, that’s a message.”
Doesn't Belong Here
Any side sleepers out there who love their pillow? One side of my neck is in constant, minor pain. Thanks!
Marie
Yes! I have a contour pillow that seems to give me the neck support I need as a side sleeper. I bought it ages ago and just checked the tag-surprised to see it is apparently a Martha Stewart brand pillow. If you cannot find that one and have never tried a contour pillow, maybe give that a go. They tend to be firmer and help keep your neck aligned rather than collapsing at a weird angle into a soft pillow.
Anon
I like the Costco memory foam pillow by Stearn and Foster.
Anon
PureComfort – Side Sleeping Pillow on Amaz0n. I stumbled across it while looking for a doughnut pillow to use after getting a helix piercing, and it’s MAGIC. I never realized how uncomfortable squished ears were until they stopped being squished.
OMFGLT!
I bought the Caper pillow a few months back and I am sleeping like a dream most nights.
OMFGLT!
Sorry, Casper*
Doesn't Belong Here
Thanks to all! I really appreciate your suggestions.
Anonymous
Are there birds that specifically chirp at night? I live in a city ish area but there’s a single block right below my apt that I guess is a park — nothing much some lawn and trees. Since the lockdown I’ve noticed one or a few birds that start chirping around 1-2 am thru the night. I’m in Va outside DC. IDK what bird it is but it sounds like a regular bird, not an owl. IDK how I wouldn’t have noticed this in 4 years living here so I’m wondering if this is an example of animals that came out because there were fewer humans?? I know birds start up by 4-5 am to signal sunrise but are there varieties that are more middle of the night?
anon a mouse
It could be hungry babies, there are several nests in my area right now and one of them has 4 little birds who have been chirping nonstop for 2 days straight.
Anon
I have a 5AM mockingbird whose call mimics a car alarm. It’s *awesome* /s
Anon
I have one that mimics our smoke alarm needing a battery. That was a fun argument with my husband, who swore he changed them at DST like usual.
Anon
And it is illegal to kill them! I am super pro animal rights but when was dive bombing and pecking at my dog for no good reason (couldn’t find babies anywhere) I considered it. After much research we got a very realistic plastic owl and I chased the bird around with that and then planted the owl staring at where the bird used to hang to keep watch over my yard. Bird thankfully finally moved on. He was making my dog miserable.
Flats Only
I am in VA outside of DC and have also noticed middle of the night bird chirping that I didn’t hear in previous years. They used to start up at about 4:00 AM, but now when I’m in the bathroom at 2:00 AM I hear them too. Maybe their work from home schedule has made it hard to sleep – I know it’s done that to me!
Moonstone
Love it!
Anonymous
Listening with interest. I have a little old man dog who likes to wake me up in the middle of the night to pee. And I’ve noticed the same thing lately–birds chirping loudly at like 2 or 3 a.m., not anywhere near sunrise. It’s really strange. I’m suburbs of Chicago if it makes any difference.
anonypotamus
Around here (Bay Area) we have many mockingbirds that are especially active in the 1am-3am timeframe. I’ve come to view it as pleasant, but it was definitely a little odd to hear at first!
Anonymous
We are getting near the summer solstice (the most sunlight in a day). I don’t know to what extent — if at all — the amount of daylight in a 24-hour-period affects when birds will be silent v. singing.
Anon
I think it’s the time of year.
Tired
As a non black POC, wow white people who are this fragile are annoying. I agree with Anon @ 10:43, I always appreciate specific resources, like books or places to donate, and highlighting things in your own world, whether thats black lawyer associations, black owned businesses, books on racism you’ve read, or anything else you could speak to. That NY Times writer isn’t representative of everyone you know, and if you know someone, you should be able to figure out how to talk to be – I know all you high powered lawyers/businesswomen/etc have people skills. It’s also nice to be a resource to your other white friends, so the one POC friend doesn’t get bombarded with requests. It’s just not this complicated.
I did worry a bit about what to post on Instagram and how to appear publicly and blah blah blah, but ultimately decided that I do the work where I can be most effective (at the work + in my own community) and post helpful, specific resources. More than posting, I often send specific, short, clearly written articles or posts to the people I know who it would be useful to, and all the research in the world shows that that is the most effective.
Anonymous
The last week or two has rightly led to a discussion on privilege. Any Asians want to weigh in — or even your perceptions of Asian privilege from the outside looking in? I’m south Asian though American born and raised. Thinking thru both sides of it the 2 most obvious examples that come to mind about being Asian stereotyped and given benefits of the doubt are — stereotype — in every job no one EVER thinks I can be or should be the lead/boss etc they decide up front that I’m the stereotypical put my head down Asian worker bee and then if I want a leadership role in that org I end up shadow managing and/or cleaning up others messes until people realize, hmm she can run things. Yet the opposite — I’ve seen drs over the years who’ll give me a lot of info and explain complicated things while saying — you’re smart you get this stuff; there’s a deference to intelligence even though I’m not a dr but it’s not a waste of their time to explain it to me because they think I’ll get it in 2 seconds. It breaks my heart when I hear black friends say yeah a dr would never do that for me unless I pushed, it’s more — it’s complicated, you won’t get it, just take this script and go; and these are people with the same ivy degrees and jobs. What other Asian privileges do people experience or not?
Anon
I’m not Asian so I hope it’s okay that I’m responding here, but I read an article in the New York Times a while ago that basically made a claim that Asians have not suffered any systematic oppression that can compare to slavery so no one should call Asians victims. I found that so grossly inaccurate, offensive, and monolithic. It’s clear from your post (and so many other reports) that Asians suffer constant stereotyping at best and major, systematic discrimination and oppression at worst.
Anonymous
In my city, Asians are often the poorest minority group (and the smallest). The expectation is “doctor or PHD; rich; well-educated” but often people are recent immigrants and the language barrier is huge. We have a large refugee population within our Asian population that is impoverished, struggles to find housing, struggles to find decent schools for their children, struggles with language, struggles to afford cars in a driving city; the list goes on. Because of language struggles, they take jobs lost in the coronavirus recession and are more likely to succumb to coronavirus. The reaction to this is largely “we don’t prioritize helping Asians because others are needier.”
tired
I think there’s a complicated issue where Asians 1) don’t see themselves as the same as minorities and 2) other minorities don’t see Asians as having the same problems as them. So poor Asians, like what Anonymous @ 12:15 said, don’t get the same outreach for social services, and Asians don’t vote for or apply for or support social services they need. I think we do need more coming-together essentially – Asians need to see themselves as a minority experiencing the same issues, and also need to be accepted as part of this conversation, and not some shadow-y well educated rich group. In Illinois, for example, Indians make up the second or third (I don’t remember right now) of illegal immigrants.
One organization I really like is DRUM in NYC
anon
i never read that piece but that sounds ludicrous to me (as an Asian American). I do really like the term BIPOC since it acknowledges that black and indigenous POC have had a vastly more difficult and complex struggle in this country as compared to POC generally, so I will be using it more liberally now on to differentiate my status from theirs.
Anonymous
I’m an Asian American (Parents from Taiwan), and I have to admit that I’ve been struggling with this somewhat. I’ll also preface by saying that grew up in Southern California and went to an Ivy League school. So there is definitely a background of privledge. I’ve been reading White Fragility and I realize that a lot of what d’Angelo says applies to me- not because of the shared historical context, but rather because a lot of Asians have integrated/ assimilated into the dominant culture of America. It’s the whole “model minority” thing. If I walk into a room full of White people, part of me recognizes that I am the only Asian there, but that fact never makes me feel unwelcome or like I don’t belong, and I don’t know that that is true for others.
So yes, there are specific moments of discrimination like the Japanese Internment camps and Chinese men being brought over to work on the railroads, but these things don’t seem to have been a systematic barrier to advancement like what Black people have faced. Or at least a systematic barrier for an Ivy League educated Asian from the suburbs.
I’ve definitely had to experience lots of micro (and macro) aggressive behavior, but it’s all been well meaning ignorance, not hostile, negative prejudice- i.e people complimenting me on my English, ethnic jokes, being unseen, as OP noted.
Which is all to say, I do feel complicit in a lot of what is going on. There are a lot of negative Black stereotypes among my family, and I don’t think Asians can stand and watch the train wreck pretending to be a bystander.
Anon
I’ve found that a lot of people downplay poverty, experiences of war and genocide, refugee status, and other uniquely traumatizing events when it comes to talking about barriers Asians face. That NYT article said something like “a lot of Asians have experienced hardships but not a major trauma like slavery” and I couldn’t disagree more.
Anon
I live in a city where our Asian population is magnitudes larger than our Black population. I have heard this from Asian friends and coworkers. One of my coworker’s parents are from Vietnam, another’s parents came from Cambodia. Their parents ended up here in America because they were refugeeing from horrific situations in their home countries (which were either directly perpetrated or abetted by Americans). There does seem to be very little acknowledgement of this when people talk to and about them, and it does hurt them, is what they have told me. There’s also the whole problem of white people thinking all Asian people are of the same national heritage (so people who are of Chinese, Japanese, Korean, Vietnamese, Laotian, Cambodian, etc. descent – who cares, “they all look the same” racist garbage). The same thing happens to my Native American/Indigenous friends – tribal identity is important. Navajo tribal members do not necessarily have the same beliefs as Pueblo peoples who are different from Apache peoples, etc. And then within tribes there are differences, like people from two different bands of the same tribe don’t have identical beliefs and traditions. It seems like white people have a hard time with nuance (I say that as a white person).
I will also share that one of my Asian friends was asked point-blank AT WORK “so do your parents own a nail salon or a Chinese restaurant, seems like it’s either one or the other” and another one actually had someone say the line from Platoon (which I won’t repeat, it’s repugnant) to her like it was some kind of a joke, at work-related social event. Horrifying. Yes, the journeys of Asian minorities and BIPOCs are different but there is still a LONG way to go in terms of white people treating anyone who isn’t white like an equal.
anon
I’m also South Asian American and while I don’t know that I’d characterize my experiences as “Asian privilege” per se, since they come weighted with a whole host of expectations and misperceptions, I will say that people tend to assume that I (and my parents) are highly educated, come from a stable family unit, etc. Many people express surprise when I say that I was never very good at math. More often, I’ve been the victim of outright racism (though nothing, of course, compared to BIPOC) – all through 8th grade a girl would call me sand n***r and other racial slurs when the teacher wasn’t around, until I finally went to a school counselor crying about it. I also, as you mentioned, have almost never been considered for a leadership position even though I know I do high quality work, am a resource for my colleagues, etc., and I suspect some of that may be due to racial stereotyping as well.
Anonon
I’m South Asian and Muslim, but grew up in the States and have experienced a whole lot of direct ugly racism. A lot of “go back where you came from” “rag head” and some even uglier terms that I won’t post here. My mosque received death threats post 9-11 and our car was vandalized. When I was in high school, I had customers who refused my help specifically saying they didn’t want help from someone like me. And with all that said, I still think black people have it way worse. I think the racism they face in just imbedded deeper and that they face it from everyone where as I only ever faced it from white people (in case it’s not clear, I do not believe this is how all white people are.
Fibroids
Any fibroid sufferers out there? Fibroids run in my family (like devastating ones, ones where you bleed all month and eventually get a hysterectomy). I had to go on BCPs a couple of years ago b/c of bleeding. And I am looking at myself in a mirror like that thing that looks like you could be pregnant (I’m very much not) could be them (and not my COVID-15). If you have had fibroids, how do they start to reveal themselves — thickening below the waist? Bleeding? Signs aren’t looking good and I don’t think I can get into a live OB visit until September unless this is somehow an emergency (it doesn’t seem to be). The BCPs are making me have normal seeming periods, but without them I had near constant bleeding. Mid-40s.
Non
Fibroids are miserable – I’ve had a couple removed. That said, I think you need to get into an OB sooner than later to make sure your symptoms aren’t something more serious. Bloating and constant bleeding are not symptoms to wait on – it’s probably a fibroid but the only way to know for sure is to get checked.
Anonymous
Why can’t you go to a doctor? Anywhere in the US you could and should go in and get seen for this.
Anonymous
I am finding a lot of resistance to getting into doctors offices generally. Like they try to talk you out of even asking and then wanting to do video visits (honestly, if you could diagnose things by zoom call, why weren’t we doing this all along?) vs real visits. I am surprised b/c you’d think they’d want the revenue, but the pushback is unreal.
Anon
If anyone is in New England and needs to see a doc in person, Dartmouth Hitchcock is doing in-person visits, particularly in Manchester. It’s the opposite issue from what you are describing. Things that should be virtual still are being pushed to be in-person.
Anon
None of the doctors I see, including specialists for a serious chronic illness, are doing in person visits. My state is not a hotspot and has pretty much fully “reopened” in terms of retail business, but doctors seem cool with just doing telemedicine forever, even though there are lots of medical things that can’t be done virtually. It’s extremely frustrating to me.
Anon
I think you don’t need a live OB visit, since they’re just going to send you to an imaging center anyway. I would do the telemedicine appt to get the referral.
Anonymous
Mine caused heavy bleeding – but short periods. If they would be causing you to bleed that much, you need to take care of this. In addition to anemia, fibroids can cause other problems by pressing on internal organs, depending on their location. You may need imaging i.e. ultrasound and maybe an MRI, to figure out how they are impacting your body plus bloodwork to ensure you’re not anemic.
Most doctors offices are open for telemedicine, and radiologists are seeing people in person. They are all taking lots of precautions to avoid spreading illness. Talk to your doctor who put you on BCP for the bleeding and ask them about your concerns and mention the family history. Ask if you should have imaging. I’ve had imaging during the pandemic in a hot spot and it was absolutely no big deal. They were happy to have me (and my insurance money).
I’d advocate handling it now because 1) I’m worried the elective surgeries that were pushed the last few months will start clogging up the system if you need something done, and 2) there are a lot more options developed over the last 10 years other than hysterectomies, but it’s my understanding that there comes a point where a hysterectomy is the safer option. If you don’t want a hysterectomy, acting sooner may give you more flexibility, particularly if surgery is needed.
Good luck!
Anonymous
Does anyone have any advice or resources on exercise specifically for mental health benefits? I don’t currently exercise at all, don’t have access to a gym obviously but that will change eventually. Interested in what type of exercise/routines might have the biggest impact on mental health. Thanks.
Anonymous
Really anything is great!
cat socks
Agree. I think the key is to find something you like. My preference is online workout videos I can do at home.
Anonymous
Also in agreement. Anything you enjoy is going to be great for mental health. And chiming in to say this is reason #1 why I exercise. There are many benefits but this reason is what gets me out of bed to start my workout in the morning.
anon
If you don’t regularly exercise, start really small. Given the metal health benefits of being in nature, I’d suggest starting with walks in nature/outdoors. The key is to find an activity that you’ll do regularly – so something that isn’t too difficult for you. And when I say too difficult for you I don’t mean too physically challenging but too difficult in any sense of the word. If you hate something, it’s difficult to commit to doing it and feels like a sacrifice. If you’re sore for days after, you’re going to have a hard time continuing. My best advice is to start small (really, really small) to let the habit become a habit. Start with a ten minute walk around the block every day after lunch (or any other time) until suddenly you don’t even have to think about it, it’s just something you do. Then once the habit is there, let it grow naturally. For me, committing to doing a 20 minute low impact ride on my Peloton 3 times a week was how I actually got the habit to stick after years of thinking I “had” to be doing 45 minute intense classes. While a 45 minute class is often “too much” and then I’d end up doing nothing, I almost never feel so overwhelmed by a 20 minute class that I skip it. And now the habit is solidly there so I do take a lot of longer/harder classes but on days I feel meh, I still feel accomplished by just doing my 20 minute low impact class.
you got this!
Anon
I experience the greatest benefits from exercise that is fun, requires skill, and/or involves an element of risk. I like rock climbing, horseback riding, skiing, hiking, surfing, mountain biking, and dancing. When I can’t do those things, I run or do workout videos, but that feels more like a chore. Finding things you like to do is the absolute key to health and enjoyment.
Carmen Sandiego
I don’t have any resources or articles, but from my own personal experience, yoga has helped me tremendously. I’ll give you my mini-TED Talk below, but if you don’t feel like reading through: try yoga!
I was having severe issues with my esophagus. You can think of it as reflux, but it wasn’t just acid reflux, it was a mechanical problem in my throat along with some hyper-sensitive nerves in my esophagus. I had a billion tests and no one could figure it out, so I was being considered for a pretty invasive surgery that they sometimes do for reflux patients. Finally, I ended up at a specialist who literally only studies motility disorders in the esophagus and she figured out what it was – well, surgery is not a fix for my problem. This insanely qualified doctor was like, honestly, breathing exercises are the best thing you can do for this. I was distraught, really. I felt like that meant it was hopeless and I would have to live the rest of my life like that. I started seeing a psychologist who works with my specialist and she told me that mentally and emotionally, I had really good coping mechanisms for dealing with stress, but that sometimes our bodies feel physical symptoms of stress even when mentally we don’t feel stressed, and she really urged me to try yoga.
So I did start trying yoga and started doing my own research and here’s what I found out (caveat I’m not a doctor, but this is my understanding): our bodies have a nerve called the Vagus nerve, which is constantly scanning all over our bodies and searching for signs of stress, and sometimes these are involuntary/ingrained/we don’t even notice that we’re doing them. It can be something like taking shallow breaths (which many women do so that our stomachs don’t poke out), or clenching your fists, or raising your shoulders. These small movements and postures send stress signals to your body, even if you don’t mean to do it. This can start you feeling anxious or stressed for no apparent reason because you’re doing them without even thinking. On the same token, when you are feeling mentally stressed or anxious, you can reverse these signals to your body by forcing your body to do things that signal “rest” to your body. So lowering your shoulders, taking deep breaths, and letting your limbs hang loose. Yoga has proven to be very helpful for that because it puts a lot of emphasis on these small movements, on teaching your body the muscle movements of lowering your shoulders from your ears, relaxing, and taking deep breaths down into your diaphragm. So, while I think any type of exercise can be good, I would definitely give yoga a try if you are really focusing on mental health.
anon
Running and yoga for me. Running just straight up gives me a runner’s high/endorphins. (It’s pretty funny how it kicks in –at first I’m all “this stinks, why am I doing this? This hurts, let’s go walk and do yoga instead that’ll be good enough, ow, ow, ow I’m about to disintegrate” then a switch flips and it’s “this hurts but feels great! Man, I’m strong! Hi other runner! Great job! So grateful for my body, everything is awesome, I’m happy! YAY LIFE!”) It also eases my anxiety throughout the day/next few days (depending on how tough the run was). Yoga makes me feel calm and peaceful and makes my body feel good and light in a way that running doesn’t. Unfortunately, the cost of running for me is aches and pains all over the place.
anon
Yoga does it for me. I find myself so focused on matching my breath to my movement that I don’t think about anything else while on my mat — it’s a moving meditation. It’s also the first exercise that I’ve enjoyed enough to stick with for an extended period of time and consistency is key.
Anon
An activity you enjoy doing! For me, that’s running, cycling and heavy yard work. The only downside to living in town is that I can’t cut and burn brush. Weird, probably, but I find it so cathartic. I only mention it because absolutely anything that moves your body can be a candidate.
Anon
You can come to my house and burn brush if you’d like :)
Anon
If I can set it on fire, I’m in!
Anon
Whatever you like to do. Anything is better than nothing, and that’s the important thing. If you like being outside, I suggest walking or hiking. I really like just dancing- not any kind of official workout or to a video, just putting in my earbuds with my most danceable music and dancing like crazy for 15-20 minutes (more if you want). It gets my heart rate way up and I’m sweating and burning as many calories or more as I would doing more formal exercise, but it doesn’t feel like “work” at all and it puts me in a great mood so I don’t have to force myself to do it.
Anonymous
Yoga and anything outdoors in nature are the two that seem to be most consistently cited as beneficial.
Anon
Caveat being I’m sure there are many ways exercise benefits mental health, but my therapist said that to help with depression specifically, it needs to be cardio where I’m getting my heart rate up and at least 45 minutes at a time.
Anon
Exercising makes me so miserable, I’ve never understood how it’s supposed to be good for my depression. I hate it.
Anon
Me too. I feel like it destroys my quality of life, I dread it beforehand, suffer during, and feel awful afterwards.
On the other hand, I have a few chronic illnesses. So you might ask yourself if your depression could be a symptom of another condition that’s causing issues with exercise?
Anon
What do you mean? Like, all non-stationary activity makes you miserable? Or some specific exercises that aren’t your thing?
I mean, sure, I went to a masters swim workout at 5:30AM once and it sucked mightily… so I haven’t done it again, but then I kept exploring and found other ways to move that I do enjoy.
Surely there is something that involves moving that you enjoy doing? If not, that sounds like your depression has a really strong hold and I hope you find something that works to break that hold.
anon
+1 some exercise truly does make me miserable or like I’m being punished (I do not understand bootcamp style classes for example). But exercise encompasses a lot more than the insanity-style workouts advertised on infomercials.
Is there literally no physical activity that does not make you miserable? A ten minute walk in the park? 5 minutes of stretching? Dancing to a favorite song? Those all count. If literally anything that isn’t sitting on the couch makes you miserable, please speak to a doctor ASAP!
Marie
Yoga With Adrienne.
I have been seeing her youtube channel referenced around here for years, but during the pandemic, I finally started beginning my day with yoga in the morning to her videos. I already had a regular yoga practice, so I was able to dive right in, but she has beginner videos and many of her videos are less focused on being physically challenging and more about stretching and relaxing your mind. I find her voice and her space soothing, and it has been a great thing for my mental health to start the day doing a 20-40 minute video (videos can also be sorted by length) where I’m focused on slowing my breathing and stretching my body rather than waking up feeling panicked and trying to dive in to work. If you are very new to yoga, maybe start with her yoga for text neck one-it is more about stretching the neck and shoulders, which naturally relaxes you and does not have any advanced poses.
The Lone Ranger
Walking. All you need is good shoes. You can do it anywhere, and technically, in any weather (personally, I don’t like to walk in the rain, but sometimes I do). It’s a time to think, and if my thoughts aren’t what I want to be concentrating on, I can look around and find something else to look at … trees, flowers, traffic, people’s mailboxes, what cars they drive, siding, front door colors, etc. You can start out slow and short and work up to fast and long. Or alternate days, some days I do interval walks, so days I just wander around, some days I walk an extra mile, etc.
Anon
Honestly, when I was having a tough time, taking a really long (like, 5-7 miles) walk outside (or an easy hike, or in a huge park) while I listened to an audiobook did the most for my mental health. I also did barre, but I felt way clearer after getting back from a really, really long walk.
Anon
If you are dealing with depression or feeling like you aren’t feeling your feelings, I highly recommend running even if you normally hate it. When my depression got bad I started to love running and I normally dread it. It was almost a socially acceptable way of self-harm. I’d run until I physically hurt. You probably shouldn’t take it that far but it did it for me. Particularly running in nature. I’d run trails out in the woods with music blasting in my headphones and just pound out everything hurting in my heart.
Anonymous
I have read that being outside in nature is really helpful to mental health. Maybe start with walks or an easy hike –if you have any place to do so. I make sure to take a walk outside everyday and try to hike the mountain near us every weekend. Great exercise and requires no membership to anything — just good shoes and sunscreen.
OMFGLT!
HIIT / strength training combo is my sweet spot, and I workout 5x weekly. Usually do each 2x per week and then on the 5th day take a long walk or hike.
Non for this
I was attending an online Audio work meeting today, and as the meeting ended and people were posting goodbyes, someone posted in the chat have a good weekend and ‘this weekend is armed forces day‘ ( I’m in another country, not on the US). Another person then immediately posted that this comment made her ‘uncomfortable.’ Both commenters received likes. I feel that both have the right to express these sentiments ( though both are off topic for work meetings).
I thought about my family who served in the armed forces in other countries, and I’m upset by this person’s reaction, and I’m not sure how to process this. This happened as the meeting ended and no one has mentioned anything since. Generally, I like my workplace and the people I work with, but this interchange makes me feel down. I’m not sure exactly what I’m asking.
Anonymous
Get over it? It’s not about you.
Anon
You’re absolutely allowed to feel upset or down, but I don’t think anybody did anything wrong. Other people are also allowed to feel uncomfortable.
Non for this
Yes – of course I don’t think anybody did anything wrong, but this hasn’t happened before during any meetings, so it felt like the tone had changed in some way. Likely I’m not articulating this well.
Anonymous
No one is wrong in this situation. People feel how they feel.
Anon
This sounds like a non-event. Why does it matter that someone pointed out a holiday/recognized occasion? It doesn’t sound like there was a lot of “I love the military” commentary happening.
Anon
I think she was having feelings that someone posted that bringing up Armed Forces Day made that person “uncomfortable.” I get the sense she would have liked some more pro-military commentary there. Which….OK. Some people have very real, very understandable, discomfort with the military, and it’s just as fair for them to bring that discomfort up as it is for someone to remind others that it’s Armed Forces day. Total non-event, but the (often American) “Thank you for your service! Love our troops!” culture has some serious issues, which even veterans acknowledge..
Anon
I’m spending part of this weekend socially distanced with a military friend of mine and I’m really sad for them.
Non for this
Thank you for the replies. It is not that I have strong views on the issue either way, it’s more that I guess I’m perplexed that both these reactions would come through at a meeting and each have their own likes— I do get what is being said here though. I read lots of subtext into these situations as I know all the cooworkers involved, so it feels like an odd dynamic to me.
Anon
Seeking commiseration for a runner’s knee issue!
I was out running earlier this week and suddenly my right knee started hurting, kind of the lower kneecap area and the top of the shin. I wasn’t doing anything out of the ordinary. I was one mile into what was going to be a three-miler.
I usually run 4-6 miles on the weekends and one 3-4 miler during the week, and the rest of the week I cross train with HIIT, yoga, cardio dance, or weights.
Running has been helping me stay sane right now, so I really don’t want to miss out on it. This morning I tried walking instead. Walking was fine, so I decided to try to break into a jog. As soon as I started jogging and real weight was being placed on the knee, the pain started. It does not hurt at all when I am not running.It’s definitely not bad enough to go to a doctor.
So… do I take a week off? Ice it? Stop doing other workouts? Not really sure how to proceed.I just already miss running so much and I am trying to find the balance between taking care of myself and not losing my mileage/stamina/sanity.
Anon
How old are your shoes? If they’re getting old, it may be time for a new pair. I get a very specific pain when mine have had it.
One other thing to try – vary your pace a little bit. Slower doesn’t necessarily mean less painful.
American Girl
I have dealt with all manner of running injuries in my life. Here’s what helped me with knee pain:
(1) Stretching, but the right kind of stretching. I found (and this was supported by a number of things I’ve read) that stretching my hamstrings greatly exacerbated knee pain. Stretch, instead, your quads and calves, both which contribute significantly to knee pain when tight.
(2) Work on doing strength training specifically designed to target your hamstrings and glutes.
(3) Replace your shoes more often than you think you need to.
American Girl
I’ll also add: my running injuries always seem completely random, sporadic, and untethered to the frequency or intensity of my workouts. Maybe this is just me, but I find this endlessly frustrating.
emeralds
If I’ve got an issue like that, I would: take a week off of running (walk if it’s still comfortable for you), ice, do not do any other workouts that aggravate it (which likely means sticking to stuff that’s lower-impact). Re-evaluate in a week, and be prepared to drastically lower your mileage and intensity with running for a while if it flares back up.
Also, different people’s bodies are different and can stand different types of stress, so I’m sure there are plenty of folks who could handle this fine! But as a data point, I am a very experienced runner and in the long term, my body would not stand up to a 6 mile long run that’s only being supported by one 3-4 mile run per week. Just because your cardiovascular system can handle the intensity of a 6 mile run based on the other exercise you do, that does not mean that your muscles/bones/tendons/etc. are acclimated to the load. A very basic rule of thumb: your longest run should not be longer than the sum of your other weekly runs–e.g. a 6 mile run should be supported by two 3 mile runs.
Anon
I was just at the doctor for something else and complained about this while I was there. She said it was fine for me to keep running if it doesn’t hurt while I’m running (it’s okay if it hurts the first few minutes of the run) and to ice it immediately after even if it doesn’t hurt. I have a bunch of home exercises to do for it that you can probably find online or call your doc to send to you. Also, scale back the mileage a bit while you recover. That’s what caused my issue. I went out too hard too soon. I’m the depressed runner above that ran until it hurt. Don’t do that.
Anon
Also, sitting with it bent all day (the way we normally sit) makes it worse. Try to extend it periodically throughout the day.
Anonymous
I used to get knee pain when running. On the advice of my PT, I started wearing CWX tights for my runs. They have support for knees built in and I no longer have any knee pain. They are definitely pricey and I find them pretty ugly but they really work for me.
Anon Probate Atty
I hate to be Debbie Downer, but running is not good for everyone. In my early to mid-20s, I used to run all the time, and just tried to ignore the pain (I have a high pain tolerance). I went to an orthopedist and was referred to physical therapy , which did pretty much nothing. The ortho did not take me seriously – they must have thought I was just a drama queen due to my young age and possibly because I was female. It took many more dr. visits over the years before they finally ordered an endoscopy. During surgery, they found that my kneecap was tilted which was causing my patella to scrape against the inner parts of my knee (don’t know the exact terminology). Because of that, they also had to do a lateral release to try to straighten my kneecap. Post-surgery, I was told that 80% of the cartilage in my knee had worn away. I was 36 and hadn’t run in 8 years. Running is very, very hard on your knees and unfortunately, not everyone’s bodies can tolerate it. Listen to your body – if a certain exercise is painful you should probably stop.