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Workwear sales of note for 6.02.23:
- Nordstrom – The Half-Yearly Sale has started! See our thoughts here.
- Ann Taylor – $50 off $150; $100 off $250+; extra 30% off all sale styles
- Banana Republic Factory – Up to 50% off everything + extra 25% off purchase
- Boden – Sale, up to 50% off
- Cole Haan – Up to 50% off select styles; extra 20% off sandals & sneakers
- Eloquii – 60% off all tops
- Express – 30% off all dresses, tops, shorts & more; extra 50% off clearance
- H&M – Up to 60% off online and in-store.
- J.Crew – Up to 50% off “dressed up” styles (lots of cute dresses!); extra 50% off select sale
- J.Crew Factory – Up to 60% off everything; 60% off 100s of summer faves; extra 60% off clearance
- J.McLaughlin – The Sale Event: extra 30% off
- Loft – 40% off tops; 30% off full-price styles
- Sephora – Up to 50% off select beauty.
- Shopbop – Up to 60% off sale
- Sue Sartor – Lots of cute dresses on sale!
- Talbots – 25-40% off select styles
Other noteworthy sales:
- CB2.com – Up to 40% off; pop-up sale up to 30% off
- Joss & Main – Up to 60% off, plus an extra 20% off with code
- Tuft & Needle – Save up to $775 on mattresses (Reader-favorite brand; Kat really likes hers!)
- West Elm – Up to 25% off in-stock furniture; up to 60% off clearance
Some of our latest posts here at Corporette…
And some of our latest threadjacks here at Corporette (reader questions and commentary) — see more here!
- Favorite comfy pants for an overnight plane ride?
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- What’s a good place for a relaxing solo escape?
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- I’m early 40s and worry my career arc is ending…
- I canNOT figure out the proportions in this current season of fashion…
- How is everyone wearing scarves in 2023?
- What shoes are people wearing to work between boot and sandal season?
- What’s a good place for a relaxing solo escape?
- What are some of your go-to outfits that feel current?
- I need more activities that are social, easy to learn and don’t involve extreme running/jumping/etc.
Pretty! I am going to vote. Woohoo!
Very pretty! I’m deliberating between going right before lunch or late in the afternoon. I miss voting absentee…
Where I live you can only vote via absentee, though with my schedule and travel, iv’e always done it that way anyway.
Voted this morning before work and got right in and out! Proudly wearing my “I Voted” sticker today :)
The stickers were a victim of budget cuts this year in Houston. Boo!
anon in tejas
yes, this annoyed me! I only got one in the first presidential election I voted in :(
Me too! Voted in Chicago…no sticker. Plus my polling place was a complete cluster-eff. Boo, Cook County.
Did you vote for Peter Florrick for Governor? I’m sorry, I couldn’t help myself.
Also in Chicago and no sticker, but I did get a sucker! Yay!
I’m in Chicago too…no sucker, and no sticker! Would have voted for Peter Florrick, though.
I early-voted, but I wore my sticker today. (What does it say about me that the sticker is one of my favorite things about voting?) It’s bilingual!
It says you’re proud of doing your civic duty and want to encourage others! I love my sticker too :)
My polling place is too ghetto for stickers. I was hoping it was too early in the morning for some of the area’s less desirable elements, but alas, I was incorrect. Incidentally, today was the wrong day to wear boots and a skirt.
I hope when you are talking about less desirable elements you are talking about weather… but based on your use of the word ghetto I have a feeling you are talking about poor people..
I was talking about the people loitering in front of the polling place gawking at voters while either 1) twitching and compulsively scratching themselves all over, 2) swaying precariously while holding large, barely-concealed bottles, 3) cat calling or making other loud, rude comments to the voters, 4) wandering through parking areas looking in people’s cars and “surreptitiously” trying their handles, or 5) any combination of the above.
MaggieLizer – What does any of that have to do with the supply of stickers?
how terrible! very noble of you to vote in those trying circumstances. why don’t they just get a job, you know? hopefully none of their filth touched your limo.
Oh come on, don’t give her a hard time about that! You’re acting like she’s a total rich diva, but I’m sure you wouldn’t be totally happy about people trying your door handles like they’re going to rob you, touching themselves while looking at you, etc.
Self righteous and project, much? Also, what is it with these cowardly pot-shots that come from “anon” posters. Sheesh. Get a grip and get a spine.
I actually completely sympathize with her about the cat calling and people trying to break into cars… that would get my shackles up too. Being disrespctful to women is unacceptable, and poverty is not an excuse. But that’s also no reason to use the word ghetto – that’s a very offensive word and I am sure not okay for many people on this site
Not trying to be snarky– genuine question here: why is the word ‘ghetto’ objectionable? I understand it to be a part of a city where a lot of marginalized and usually disenfranchised people (either by class, race, religion, trade, caste, etc) get stuck living, either through overt policies or by societal undercurrents.
I don’t want to be the ogre who’s running around offending people, but at the same time, I’m getting concerned that a lot of words that aren’t actually offensive are getting tagged because people are projecting offense where there isn’t any offense intended or meant.
co-sign with Maggie Lizer. I had the same problem.
Susan, the way you define and understand the word ghetto is correct. However it can be often offensive when the word is used as an adjective as in “this place is too ghetto” or “this dress is so ghetto” – it implies that anything associated with that group of disenfranchised people is negative or bad, and more often than not, it has racist undertones. That may or may not have been the OP’s intention but when you use the word to describe something else (and not the way you define it) it’s hard not to see the negative connotations.
FWIW, this was brought to my attention a few months ago by a friend. I am not a fan of having to be extra PC all the time and police what I say all the time, but the situation could be reversed and someone may use a word that doesn’t mean much to them but hurts me deeply, so I am trying to be more conscious about these things.
and what in the world, anon @12:22? I do not ride around in a limo, but I’d rather not have my car vandalized. –The same car that I paid for with my income I earned after sweating it out in Fallujah for an entire year! Most of us work very hard. Please watch your snake tongue and take a minute to think things through before posting.
Thanks for the explanation. As for the people who say stuff like, “this dress is so ghetto,” ugh! I see how it can be both racist and intellectually lazy. That usage reminds me of those idiots running around saying, “that [X] is so gay.”
Not to pile on, but to me, “poor” and “less-desirable elements” are not synonyms. When I read MaggieLizer’s original post, I imagined exactly the sort of thing she later described, not people who try to make ends meet but can’t afford to live in a better part of town. If anything, I think the anon is the one who showed her snobbery here.
I deleted my comment the first time Maggie posted something about this, but I have to jump in this time.
I am honestly confused about this post.
It sounds like you live in a major urban area which leads me to believe that your polling place is within a few blocks of your house? I have spent times in many urban centers areas living in disadvantaged communities and I am incredulous that you would face such a gauntlet of threatening behavior getting to your polling station.
I seriously doubt that you live in the South Bronx or similar community where incidents of crime and the impacts of the myriad of social issues so often linked to poverty are so numerous as to make that tale believable. If you did live in a community like that, I would imagine you would be more considerate of your words.
As it is, you sound vaguely racist (because of the connotations of the word “ghetto” as so well explained above) and boarish.
Sorry to be harsh here, but kind of thing drives me bonkers and yes, I do call it out in real life too.
Bette — Lots of cities have areas where urban professionals live very near areas like the one Maggie described. My polling place is actually located in just such an unsavory area, even though the people trying to open others’ cars don’t generally walk down my street.
I’m kind of shocked at the reactions to Maggie’s post that are calling her racist. I agree with the argument that the word is similar to saying “gay” or “retarded,” but it’s such a common phrase that people don’t always realize what they’re saying. I used to use it sometimes until someone gently pointed it out to me. That was the first time I’d really thought about it, and I was grateful that the person was nice and didn’t come out and call me a racist because I’m not. People can use terms that maybe that haven’t really critically examined and that does not make them racist.
I certainly did not intend my comment to be offensive and apologize that it came across that way, I understand your position, hellskitchen, and appreciate the explanation.
I am all over this thread but Bette, I agree with AnonInfinity. It is not incredible to have a situation such as what MaggieLizer describes. I live in NYC and I come across such behavior frequently. And while I objected to her choice of words, calling out this behavior and being frustrated about it doesn’t make her racist at all. She shouldn’t have had to put up with it, esp while doing her civic duty
You are a classy broad, Maggie Lizer. :) What a nice reply to your criticisms – I like it. (sincerely.)
It was the first time I ever voted in person and I really wanted a sticker, but my polling place didn’t have any. By the way, I more fuly understand the frustration of voting. I got to my polling place 5 min before it opened, was about the 10th person there, and since there weren’t any signs and nobody was answering questions I ended up in the wrong line. When I got up to the table, they sent me to the other side of the building where I was then about the 20th person in line and only 1 of the 2 scanners was working and the one that was “working” kept getting jammed. Ultimately it only took me about 20 minutes, but I can just imagine how long the lines will be there today.
Stickers? What stickers? My polling place didn’t have any. But I’m just glad we had power and that the line I was in wasn’t too long! :-)
I’m sure my polling place doesn’t have stickers. It’s so crowded and pretty makeshift. After Katrina, they combined several precincts into one location. I used to vote in somebody’s garage and now I vote in a back room of a church. They have crowded in a whole bunch of tables and the voting machines are around the perimeter. You can hardly walk through. Not the best. And there may be 10 parking spaces.
I had to ask for my sticker, and then got a huffy response from the worker when she handed it over. Then she complained to another poll worker about me as I was leaving.
Of course I wanted a sticker, lady! I woke up at 4:30 in the morning to vote in a swing state! Hand it over!
you earned that sticker!
heck yea you go get that sticker!
Get that sticker! I have my ballot here at my desk, I just have to drop it off at my polling place on my way home. But it is ready to go!
If a person votes, but doesn’t get a sticker or post it on facebook, does it even count? the tree fall question for our generation.
True. I voted by fax so it feels doubly weird. California had a generous absentee policy so I’ve only voted in person once. It was in someone’s garage! Very anticlimactic for 18 year old me!
My polling place is in someone’s garage too. Weird!
I miss my polling place from my previous neighborhood – a fancy historic hotel. Nothing like a polling place with a swanky lobby bar!
Same here! I voted early just to get it out of the way and avoid the lines. But now I feel weirdly left out of the voting enthusiasm!
long time lurker
Alas no stickers in my NYC location. And I waited 1.5 hours. My polling place got consolidated with another one because of Hurricane Sandy, so it was double the fun. Yet, I always feel great after voting, despite the wait.
SF Bay Associate
The sticker is why I always drop off my absentee ballot in person. I want my sticker!
I’m not going to get anything done today. Too nervous/ excited!!!
Seriously. We’re expected to work today? I felt super-accomplished for having been in line to vote at 6:55a. Pretty sure I should be able to take the rest of the day off just for that.
My boyfriend gets Election Day off from work. I’m so jealous, but I’m leaving earlier tha. Normal to watch the returns.
Got my MFing vote on but didn’t get a sticker for my efforts. What gives, Texas??
I didn’t get a sticker in NY either but I did get one when I voted in the September primary. Since it was still sitting on my desk, unstickered, it means I’m now wearing one. Feels extra special knowing that there’s such a sticker shortage out there. Vote in your primaries and save those stickers, ladies! ;)
They offered up stickers to everyone in my precinct. Including the little kids/babies that were accompanying their parents (which is very cute). I’m wearing mine proudly now! (And am sad for those of you that didn’t get them!)
My 5 year old threw a fit last night when he found out we already voted so he couldn’t go with us this morning to get a sticker! My BIL is a poll worker though so I’ll see if he can get a sticker for him tonight.
I had to wait 45 mins at 6am! Glad to see the turnout, but sort of wish they had a frequent voter line for those that vote in all elections – ha!
I got a sticker, but am not wearing it – does this make me a bad person?
Nah, I declined the sticker, to me it’s just wasteful (I dont need my dollars spent on stickers) and kind of braggy to wear in the office.
THERE SHALL BE NO FUN HAD HERE.
I’m confused — how is it braggy? Unless there are a bunch of people in your office who are disenfranchised…
its more narcisstic i think. like a button that says “i gave to charity today” or something. like awesome, you did something that your supposed to do. and you obv want props for it.
*takes off “I Gave to Charity Today” button hoping nobody will notice*
Nothing to see here folks, move along.
i do love stickers, and I am a little unfairly lumping in stickers with my facebook friends post. we get it, its election day and you voted snowflake.
Really? Now we need to be actually namecalling the people who think it’s fun to wear their “I voted” stickers? Because they are, like, big ol’ narcissists who are “obv” only doing it for the props?
Whoa, I wouldn’t have lumped I Voted stickers in with self-important narcissism. More along the lines of, as citizens we have rights and responsibilities, and voting is one of them. Wearing the sticker (or even neutral [not campaign-specific] facebook urging people to vote) seems like a part of communicating that the norm is participating in the civic duty of voting. But probably I’m overthinking this here.
I was being rather tongue in check. I am just kind of getting sick of being told to vote. I don’t need to be told to vote. I did it already.
I actually agree with you about being tired of being told to vote. My feeling is that if you don’t want to vote, don’t vote. I have zero need for anybody to go cast an uninformed vote! But I don’t see the “I voted” sticker as the same as “Go vote!”
Anyway, I’m over my momentary fit of pique! ;)
girl in the stix
Can I have your sticker? We can has no stickers in the stix.
BTW–THANK YOU, everyone, everyone, all y’all, for taking the time, for enduring the inconveniences and possible threats, for girding your awesome lady garden loins and VOTING.
I put my sticker on my notebook. I forget to take things like that off and I end up washing them … bad things happen. I can only wear the clothes and the jewelry. It’s even worse when my nieces put princess stickers on me. I forget all about them and walk into Target or something with Cinderella on my rearend.
Also, I sort of live in the stix….while waiting in line at the middle school, one of the walls was covered with these cards that said “Instead of doing drugs I’d rather be ____” Most put eating pizza, watching football…..and there was one kid that put “hunting.”
Research, Not Law
I love it!
Kat, this dress is so pretty. I bet a lot of sizes run out because you posted it.
I think this is a beautiful dress and I would love to wear it to a holiday party, but I think the silhouette wouldn’t really be appropriate for my workplace. I’m not totally sure what it is about it, but I don’t see people wearing things like this at work.
I think the silhouette is fine – sleeves, aline-ish skirt, crew neck neckline – basically a belted shift dress. The pattern could be a bit much for some workplaces.
I think this dress can read as twee if you aren’t careful. That may be what you are seeing in the silhouette.
I like the pattern, but something about the puffs on those sleeves, the sleeve-length, the colors read borderline twee.
My fashion-geography is that some things border on twee, and they’re ok. But I also remember that the Land of Twee shares one border with the Kingdom of Frump.
I love your fashion geography metaphor :)
Ha! Totally true, I am currently wearing a cardigan that matches this description perfectly. Going sleeveless at an event tonight, weaet be damned.
haha Kat was that an Ellen yay!
Just wanted to recommend the sweater I’m wearing today–
I have it in white, and it is so comfortable and cozy. AT has 30% off family and friends right now. Contemplating gray or green.
Very pretty and it does look very cozy! How’s the fit? It looks a little boxy on a couple of the models.
I don’t think it’s boxy. It’s not very fitted, but it’s clear that’s how it’s supposed to look with the dropped shoulders. I think the neckline is flattering without being revealing, and it’s nice because many of my other sweaters are more clingy. I took a small and a medium to try on when I bought it, and I definitely needed the small. I generally wear a small in tops at AT, xs or small in Loft tops, and then small or medium in BR, J.Crew.
How’s the length? I have a longer torso, which I find is a problem with many AT tops.
If you are still reading…I also have a longer torso, and so far, so good. It covers my hips. I’ve worn it twice with jeans on weekends, and today with slacks to work, and I like it both ways. I also have super-long arms, but the sleeves are not supposed to be full-length, so I don’t have to worry about constantly tugging them down.
Oh, that sounds perfect! I also have super-long arms. Thanks for responding!
So I just bought these because I’m in love. How would you style them?
I bought them in the brown, by the way, and I’m hoping they come with the red laces but I don’t know how to tell.
If they show both colors of shoelaces, they probably put both in the box!
If not: http://www.amazon.com/King-Shoe-Laces-Nylon-Shoelaces/dp/B0052N4A1K/ref=sr_1_8?ie=UTF8&qid=1352221538&sr=8-8&keywords=red+shoelaces
I have some Nine West wedge booties from 2010 (gray with a gray wedge) and I haven’t worn them a lot despite the fact that they are really comfortable. They look very casual and they are a bit bulky on the foot with jeggings. I just bought some nice straight leg jeans, so maybe I can wear them with those. So I guess my answer is, not sure! I could see yours looking good with jeans and a sweater and a barn jacket.
Same shoes, same problem here.
I think they would look cute with straight legged or boyfriend jeans pegged/rolled up with a cozy sweater for fall/winter. I think they would also be cute with tights and an a-line or circle skirt or dress and a leather jacket.
Hmmm, what kind of skirt? Would it have to be pretty casual, I guess? And would I wear dark brown tights? I’m very interested in this idea!!!
I think a cranberry tight would be cute. Really any skirt would do, but i think a more girly silhouette would work best because the boots can read a little hard, so girly would be a good juxtaposition.
I love this dress, but according to the Q+A on Bloomies it is only 33″ long. Boo!
J Crew’s vanity sizing is out of control these days. I ordered a few things last week and they are all too big! I looked and the waistband on the #2 pencil skirt is about 1″ bigger than the SAME SIZE SKIRT I got 2 years ago. Fail!
Yeah. Definitely a “tights mandatory” dress.
SF Bay Associate
Yeah, you have to chat with JCrew to get the exact measurements for each specific item you are considering. Those measurements are accurate.
Happy Election Day!
Somewhat urgent question for you lawyers about in-firms. My second-choice firm, a boutique, has expressed a lot of interest in me. My first-choice firm, a full-service firm, has been a little more reserved, although both have invited me back for second interviews. I’m thrilled and feel so lucky to have come this far in the process with two great firms (that were always in my top three!)
I have to tell one of these firms that they are my first choice today or tomorrow, and it’s a strategic move because it could ‘lock down’ the boutique, and tip the scales to hire me, with the full-service. However, I know I want the full-service more because I think it would be a better launching point for my legal career. At this point, it’s just game theory – help! :-)
Why do you have to tell one that its your first choice? I’d just tell both something like, “I’m very excited about the possibility of working in your firm because ___.” Or, “I think I would enjoy working in your firm because ____.” I don’t think you need to verbalize a ranking, right?
Toronto infirms, right? Yah, it’s a different world here. Firms are really insecure- they need to hear you’re their #1 in order to get an offer (I had many friends get burned by that- I luckily learned from them and landed exactly where I wanted to be).
Honestly, full service firms usually tell people how much they love them if they are going to offer them, not just boutiques. Do you want to take the risk for the full service, or be more certain you’ll have a job with the boutique? It just depends on your appetite for risk.
Aha. I wonder why they need to hear that?
It’s manipulative and I find it pretty immature in a way. Any other industry (and law firms in other countries) don’t seem to mind when people get multiple offers. Students also basically have to accept offers on the spot, too.
Not to mention articling ends up being a 10-month long interview. Grr. And this is coming from someone who had everything work out well.
Gah! Sounds horridly like the worst parts of sorority rush! What an ugly mindgame. (and fwiw, I was in a sorority, and loved most things about it, but hated the rush “ranking the chapters” baloney)
Yeah, it’s certainly pretty intense and industry-specific. I’ve decided that I like law too much to question the motives why, but if I’m ever in a position of power to change the way things work, I’d probably do it differently!
I hate the games Toronto Bay Street firms play… Honestly, I would play the game with both of them a little. This is not what Career Services will tell you to do, but firms have no problem screwing over candidates for an offer after making them essentially commit to them with a little over one year of law school in you. (I’m not saying lie or tell them both they’re your #1, but I would tell them that you would love to work there and see a long future at both places)
FWIW, I went the boutique route and now that I’m questioning whether I want to continue practicing law, I wish I had gone the full-service route for a brand name on my resume and a more well-rounded experience.
Question for TO lawyer- the only well-rounded experience you get is in articling if you rotate because you are placed in a practice group as soon as you become an associate. So how does a full service give you a more well-rounded experience than a boutique? Just curious.
Well in my (very) limited experience, I went to a small/niche litigation boutique. I would have appreciated the opportunity to rotate during articling (and experience a corporate rotation) instead of going straight into litigation.
Don’t get me wrong – I actually liked articling at my firm even though I worked a ton. But now that I’m on the other side and am finding that I don’t enjoy the day-to-day stuff of litigation, I wish I had gone the full-service route for articling so I might have a little more credibility when I look for a new job in a new field.
Thanks, TO Lawyer. I appreciate the advice. If you see this and are willing to talk about your boutique experience, please send an email to ‘stereo r o s e s’ at the service Google provides. Thank you!
(former) Clueless Summer
I would tell the big firm it’s your number 1 choice, if you would genuinely take their offer over the other. Just say nice things without committing to #1 with the boutique (usually smaller firms are aware you are probably waiting on bigger better things and will be more understanding). That way, you get a better chance at the big firm because you said something, but aren’t ruling anything out/conflicting yourself. You might get both offers but maybe not.
Ah okay. I thought maybe you knew of some big firms where lawyers work in multiple practice groups even when they are associates (which would be pretty cool)….
Definitely agree. I almost think you need to understand litigation to do corporate, and vice versa. Maybe do a bunch of CPDs in corporate?
ALSO- excited for the meetup!
That was meant for TO Lawyer.
What niche are you in? For patent prep and prosecution, I’d say go with the boutique. GP firms are never set up to handle a prep and pros group efficiently or deal with conflicts in a way that’s fair to the patent partners. That causes a lot of stress and tension and patent prep and pros usually get the shaft.
Other niches, ymmv.
I just want to say that I LOVE the fact that you’re thinking of this in terms of game theory and strategic moves. :)
Is it just me, or are the lines to vote INSANE this year? I swear it wasn’t like this in 2004. We waited 1hr 15min this morning and other people in the DC area are reporting waits of more than 2 hrs. Is it just DC, or is everyone having this problem? What gives?
I was thinking that too. We didn’t wait at all in 2004. I haven’t gone yet but the lines I have seen so far are crazy everywhere! (FB reports from Virginia and personal observation from SC)
We had record-setting early voting in Houston and the lines today have been crazy too. And we aren’t even a swing state!
anon in tejas
it should be interesting to see how the county comes out and some of the judges, sheriff, d.a. etc. I am excited about election results!
Turns out I only waited about 40 min at my polling place. The line was long, but it moved pretty quickly!
In Arlington, Virginia I waited for two and a half hours this morning. But I got my sticker, which I’m now proudly wearing!
I went to my polling place this morning and the line was unbelievably long, so I just went to work early. I’m going to go back after work (and maybe bring a book and a snack).
Likewise. I’m hoping it calms down once the pre-work rush passes.
Budget cuts? Also, those of you with long lines (I waited 2:45 and then left), what sort of area did you vote in?
For me, I vote in an urban, minority-predominant area, at a school.
When I voted in an urban, diverse neighborhood in BOS the lines were VERY long (2004). I waited about an hour, and I got there before they opened.
Now that we vote in a small, less diverse town in the suburbs, there is never a line.
Yeah. That would certainly have some effect on outcomes, wouldn’t it. Early voting for all states!
I’m glad I early voted. My DH went half an hour before polls opened and still waited over an hour.
1.5 hrs in Boston. It was less than 40 degrees too! Being a citizen is hard work.
Lines in Chicago are really long too. They are expecting record high turnout – even after 907,000 voted early.
I voted early on Friday and even then had to wait an hour.
2004 = 2008. Time really does fly.
2 hour wait in a swing area of a swing state and got there before the polls opened. I’ve gone to the same voting local several other times for non-presidential elections and never had to wait.
I found the vote-by-mail system here a little bizarre at first, but now I think it’s awfully nice. I was able to really take my time filling out my ballot, put it in the drop box days ago, and don’t have to deal with any lines today. Waiting days (weeks?) for the returns is going to be a killer though!
Lines are always long here for the presidential elections and I live in the suburbs and a non-swing state. The presidential race has been decided here for months.
I waited 1:15 this morning (got there at 7:10 — polls open at 7:00 — and walked out at 8:25). Luckily, the church we vote in lets us stretch through their building, so all the waiting was inside.
On the plus side, I got a lot of reading done while standing in line….
Barrister in the Bayou
I waited about an hour and a half to vote early. I think despite lack of enthusiasm being reported, people are coming out and casting their ballots.
I got to my polling place in Boston ten minutes before it opened and waited an hour and a half.
The waiting time at my polling place in Boston was highly variable. One precinct had no line, one had a maybe 5 minute line, and the last one had a 30 minute line. You would think there’s some more efficient way to pool the resources…
in Arlington Central Park I waited for 3 hours this morning from 7-10am. I was late to work but by 9 I was too committed to back out
Polls opened at 6, I was in line at 6:10, I rolled out of there a little before 7. I’m in NOVA and my polling place is never ever this busy. I had to wait because I was concerned I wouldn’t be home by 7.
I waited almost two and a half hours to vote this morning in Northern VA. My husband got there two hours before I did (6:30 vs. 8:30 am, polls open at 6) and was out in about an hour and a half. A poll worker told me turn out was higher than what she had seen before, but it was unclear whether her only comparision was with the mid-term elections.
I’m in DC and stopped by at lunch time because I live near my office. My coworkers from northern Virginia had some very long lines, like an hour or an hour and a half even though they showed up before the polls opened.
I just voted and luckily went in knowing my precinct (7 precincts vote in the same place). There were only 2 people ahead of me in my precinct! I had to park 3 blocks away, though. Just crazy.
I did early voting in FL on Saturday and waited about 20 minutes, maybe less. I’ve heard from neighbors that the wait today was more like an hour, which seems about comparable with what it was like at the beginning of early voting a week and a half ago. My polling place is a library in a very poor, largely minority town. I think voting is slower than usual here because the Florida ballot is 6 pages long, with 11 constitutional amendments, so it takes a LONG time to read everything. I had already read a sample ballot before I went to the polls, but I re-read everything there just to be certain and it took me almost as long to vote as it did to wait in line.
To anyone that answered yesterday : thank you ! I’ve managed to get some infos from my most knowledgeable co-worker, and articles too. I felt really ill-at-ease and pestering, asking questions and coming back for confirmation afterwards, but I guess it’s the only way
And now I’m making a step-by-step with green and red markings where I understand/don’t understand things.
The lists you gave as examples were very enligthening. It’s a thought process that’s very foreign to me, and yet it’s obviously the solution to my panic attacks. In my mind, either I know how to do it immediately, or never will.
And sorry if my answers were confusing : English is not my mothertongue, my field is very very far from law (and also very specific, so I can’t describe things precisely) and, well, I was feeling like a big failure altogether.
And yes, if I were my boss, I would have fired me, but I guess HR have their own reasons. When given precise info and things to do, I’m pretty good so maybe they keep that in mind.
Thanks for reporting back! Just one more thing — you say that English isn’t your first language. Is there any chance there are language and culture issues that are making it more difficult for you? Both because you may not catch all the nuances in the instructions you’re being given and because you might perceive someone as unwilling to take time to talk with you based on cues from your own culture that might not be true for native-born Americans? If so (and ignore me if I’m totally off-base), would it help to talk with someone from your own language/culture, or even better with a native-born American who spent time living in your home country, about these issues to see where your culture and mainstream American culture may be different? (I had a German friend who thought he was offending Americans because they’d be so effusively friendly when they first met but then cooler later on. Turns out it’s just our American way to be super effusive when meeting people while Germans are typically cooler at first but then warm up over time.)
I work in my native country and in my native language so no culture clash here :)
Second this. I have the opposite workplace that you do – one of the only Americans in the office of non-Americans, and their thought processes sometimes make. no. sense. The fact that you were looking for a process where you don’t see one is exactly what I was running into, only going the other way – everyone wanted to see a written process for everything I did, even when it didn’t involve anyone else.
Keep asking questions. We don’t mind, and we’d rather answer questions first than fix something later. It’s more intelligent to ask questions than it is to pretend like you have all the answers.
Ahhh, never mind…ignore all above then. :-)
No problem :)
Admittedly, in my culture, looking infaillible and never admitting errors/ignorance is a big thing.
We don’t have mentoring, for instance, afaik. A pity.
There are resources for those who want to be mentored remotely (via exchanging emails) for women in STEM, and I have had very positive experiences with these pen pal mentoring relationships. I’ve seen at least one thru my professional society and then there’s always MentorNet. It sounds like you could benefit from having a mentor, and you might be able to track down a woman in STEM who would be willing to have these discussions with you/cheer you on via email.
Also, you might benefit from someone who comes from a different cultural perspective, given the specific things you’re finding challenging. The infallibility thing is definitely something I notice more in non-Americans (in my US workplace), so maybe talking to someone who doesn’t find being wrong to be as big of a deal might be a good reality check.
Oh, and I think you should change your handle. You are definitely NOT stupid, and I, for one, believe in you!
It might be too late in the day for you to see this, but I read your thread from yesterday and I’m sending you some internet hugs. :) I’m familiar with what you are feeling–sometimes it helps to know you’re not alone.
TJ hoping for advice-I just started a new job last week as an associate attorney at a small firm in the PNW area. My email address was finally set up, and here’s the issue – my firm email was created as firstname.lastname@example.org. Using my first name only feels unprofessional to me. The other attorneys at the firm have their last name included in their email addresses, but the support staff seems to all have first name email addresses like mine. Should I ask/insist that my email be changed to include my last name, or am I overthinking this issue?
I would ask. Do it before your business cards get printed. Your tech people should be able to forward any emails you got under the old address to your new address.
I don’t see why not. I would just drop a quick informal message to IT about it. It should be a relatively easy fix and as you mention others have already done it, so they are probably used to it.
Yes, get them to change it so it matches the other attorneys’ emails. The IT person probably didn’t get the correct instructions. :)
This. Probably just an error on the part of IT and it should be a quick enough fix. Just keep it simple and say you noticed your email address was formatted differently than the rest of the attorneys and would like yours changed so it matches with the other attorneys.
Maybe I should have mentioned – it’s such a small firm that we don’t really have IT. A partner set up the email account, and I would have to ask the partner to change it. Thanks for the advice so far, I will just ask.
Hey, guys – it’s been a while!
So someone commented yesterday that she wished men these days expected some pu b i c hair so she didn’t have to worry about trimming/waxing/etc. Is that a thing now??? They don’t??? I’ve been married for a while so I guess I’m out of it, but I’m just shocked that this (Brazilian, I guess) is an expected thing. It kind of makes me sad. (I’m reading How to be a Woman right now, which I’m not loving really, but it was interesting to see my views on this topic validated.)
It is my view (and experience) that a mature gentleman caller is so thrilled to be invited to the garden party that he doesn’t complain about the landscaping.
I’m married and have been out of the game for a while, but I’d agree with this. I can’t believe this is an expected “thing” now. It’s one thing if a woman wants it that way, it’s a completely other thing if men are apparently expecting it as a matter of course.
I guess I’ve just reached the point where I don’t much care what a guy’s preferences are related to lady garden landscaping if we haven’t been dating for a long time. There’s so much other ish that comes with performing our identities as women; at some point, male landscaping preferences dropped off the list of stuff I have the energy to care about.
Grooming is a thing, not but not to the extent of having a Brazilian. I think Brazilians are kind of out of style, to be honest.
I would say generally the dudes I’ve been with have expressed a preference and/or expected little to no hair. Early 20s here. Would they leave the garden if there was hair? No. But yeah, I have found it to be an expectation.
I’m the one who posted that comment yesterday. I’m in my mid-20s, and I’ve only thrown lady garden parties for three guys at this point. The first one was a long-time boyfriend and I never went totally bare, but usually did significant trimming and a lot of shaving on the edges- he never said anything either way- for the next two guys I went totally bare and didn’t get comments either, except from one to say that he liked how smooth it was. I think it’s more that I think they’ll judge me if I don’t have zero/very little hair- I guess I’ve been brainwashed by the media a bit :-/
Also early 20s. Most guys have strongly hinted at their preference for no hair. Is it a deal breaker? No, but unfortunately it’s definitely an assumption.
Consider how much standing these people have.
I’m an old married, but seriously, the idea that somebody who’s just a hookup will have his aesthetic preferences honored would be hilarious if it weren’t so angrymaking. If the guy is just a hookup, he’s an entitled dbag, like cfm says.
If he’s a serious/live-in bf, then, maybe maybe – and he’d better do something commensurate if you’re OK with the change in landscaping. Tit for tat, here.
I agree! Again, I’m just an observer who’s been married since before “hook-up” was a phrase, but it seems like the whole “hook up culture” thing, while it’s supposed to be about both sexes doing what they want, seems to wind up often being more about the ladies bending to the fellows’ every whims in an effort to appear cool or not uptight or something (whatever the kids are calling it these days?).
Heh, never thought I’d look back on the late 90’s as the good old days of dating and relationships.
And get off my lawn.
Er, no pun intended.
I agree with this, Lyssa.
Seconded. The notion seems to be that women should *think* they are doing this for themselves even if it’s actually because the guys expect it
b23! Glad you’re back.
As for the topic of landscaping, I’m 100% with cbackson here.
Thanks, Susan! I’m not sure what it says about me that my first post back in the C world was about this topic . . .
It says you fit right in here! ;o) I’m glad you’re back, too. And I ditto cbackson, too. And, any guy who would have any problems with my landscaping choices in any way can take a hike. Of course, that might be my own pickiness and might be contributing to my perpetual singleness, but ::Kanye shrug::
If you chose the right guy, it is not an expected thing. I’ve never had a guy mention it at all, and I do very little. just enough trimming to keep in neat. This isn’t a “guys expect it” thing. Its a dbags expect it. My one problem with this site is sometimes people really get on the “can you believe men do this!” when its really not about men, its about dbags. There are plenty of lady dbags in the world to that do stuff.
I can certainly accept that, I just wasn’t sure if that was actually the case. My question is really because I was just reading How to be a Woman which talks about it extensively and then the comment yesterday.
I’m mostly with you on the dbags thing.
But I have women friends who are about 10yrs younger than me, and they have dated generally good-hearted, non-dbag guys who are a bit clueless and living in a bubble.
These guys expressed surprise (and valiantly hid their dismay if there was any) at the landscaping they’d discovered. They didn’t make any special requests or demands, but I think they did expect* something different.
*Here, I use the word *expect to mean, “what they predicted they’d find.” They can have the …prediction that things will look a certain way, but that doesn’t make them dbags. That might just mean they’re clueless.
Yes, but why do they have that expectation? I’m willing to bet it is because that is the landscaping they have seen in gardening videos. Gardening videos are not real life, and someone needs to alert them to that fact.
Agreed. And, I will never see HGTV the same way ever again. +1 for “gardening videos.”
SF Bay Associate
Hivefive, Nonny. Gardening videos. I am dying. I recently saw a scene from a professional gardening video for the first time (yes, seriously, never seen a gardening video of any type, not opposed, just hadn’t seen one) and I was so very confused. The women looked so fake. Their bodies, hair (long hair on head, hair nowhere else), and faces looked fake. The party looked fake, and also not like a fun party. Unpleasant guests at the party. If men are getting their information from gardening videos, no wonder there’s a mismatch of expectations.
I got a hivefive! Wheeee! You made my day, SF Bay. :-)
SF Bay Associate: That’s one of the reasonsI prefer all-male gardening videos… fun is definitely being had by all. Plus the landscaping is more along the lines of the English cottage garden than an overly-manacured estate.
Nonny: BLESS YOU.
Yes, this. Unfortunately, a lot of young (and old) men these days (not just dbags, but them too esp since the women who go for them usually end up catering to their lady garden whims but I digress) get their lady garden cues from porn which is overwhelmingly bare landscaping. To overlook this fact is to overlook the whole point.
I guess my concern about that is: Why are so many ladies throwing garden parties with d-bags? Or does it just seem that way?
Cuz there are tons of lady dbags too. it just seems that way. I have great female friends and social circle. Sometimes I snap back to reality when I realize there are women who flirt with their boss to get ahead, are looking for a guy to take care of them financially, steal, cheat etc. its not a gender thing. its just a people thing. some guys are dbags and some women are too. you just kind of hope they find each other I guess.
Out of curiosity, would you define a SAHM or a SAHW (no kids, but doesn’t work) as a “lady dbag looking for a guy to take care of them financially”? And if not, how do you make the distinction?
Anon because I know this upsets people, and it’s just not worth the backlash.
There’s a very simple test for this. Would you pay someone to do what the SAHW does?
If no, then the person is just a dbag looking for someone to take care of them financially.
I find the idea of a SAHW repugnant. We no longer live in a world where “keeping a home” is actually a full-time job, and I abhor useless people. Adult members of society have jobs. They might not be paid jobs (raising kids, managing assets, throwing parties for heads of state, running the cash register at a family store, being the non-paid partner in running a farm, etc), but they are still jobs.
Personally, no. A lady dbag is more like a woman who aspires to be on “Real Housewives” (or to approximate that lifestyle) than a woman who genuinely wants to stay home and take care of the kids (or the house) because that’s meaningful to her. I could probably try to expand on this, but I am very pressed for time today.
I was encouraged by how well the members of this site handled the abortion discussion. I do think that for these big philosophical questions, the c-rp-r3ttes are great, a wonderful multi-dimensioned brain trust.
I personally don’t see the point of being a SAHW forever (no kids or other dependents to care for), but YMMV. But to play devil’s advocate, I think there are plenty of people who pay people to do what the SAHW does.
There are full-time housekeepers hired by rich families. There are s#x workers who are paid a retainer. There are psychologists/therapists, dogwalkers, chefs. The difference is that these people have a professional relationship with the client, and the SAHW is likely to be in a personal relationship with the spouse. There are any number of part-time-seeming tasks that, when added up together, is a ton of work for a SAHW.
My personal objection to being a SAHW (so I would never choose to be one) is that the motives of the SAHW become harder to understand and extricate from the tasks that they perform, and can blur the lines of accountability.
I was thinking much more along the lines of golddigger. My mom was a sahm, but not because my dad was rich. I was talking about women who put rich as number 1, ahead of all other values. It would be similar to a guy putting physical attractiveness at number 1. i find a high correlation between dbags and people with those values.
Yes, as you mentioned, a SAHW may perform plenty of tasks that might otherwise be paid for. But many (I might even say most) of the families who have SAHW also have housekeepers, nannies, dog-walkers, therapists, and personal assistants. If you don’t work in order to raise your children, and then you have a nanny, what exactly do you DO all day?
Note: I absolutely understand that raising children can be an exhausting full-time job, that you’d want a vacation from once in a while. But as you said, the justification becomes difficult after the kids hit school age.
Additionally, a lot of class/gender lines become really uncomfortable when you think about it as “I’m supporting this person because they walk the dog, clean the toilet, and have sex with me.” Can that ever really be an equal relationship?
I do know women who wanted to find a lawyer or programmer husband in college so they could settle down and spend time working on their hobbies and wear expensive clothes and have weekly manicures. Children were expected, but they weren’t planning on being professional moms. These women just wanted an easy life, and those are the ones I’m talking about. There’s surprisingly more of those than you’d think out there.
My sense is that guys expect the lady garden to be well maintained but not necessarily bare. I don’t think I’ve ever had a gentleman caller who seemed to think about hair preferences until I asked him.
Please excuse the naive/stupid question (also married and out of the game for a long time). But when you say well maintained, do you guys mean shaping the sides, or trimming the length, or are both expected?
Again, this is just my sense and I could be off, but I think as long as it doesn’t look like your 20-lb cat has taken up residence in the lady garden, you’re good.
20lb cat, choked on salad. thanks.
Personally if you’re going to have some hair, I think it looks best to take a lot off the top (so that the hair basically is only on your p u b i c mound and not on your lower belly) and shave the sides too so that there’s no hair on your inner thighs. then you can also trim the hair everywhere so it’s short. For the top part I think home waxing is fairly easy, the rest shaving or scissors can accomplish.
Lady, please do what you want with your lady parts. Many women have different hair patterns and lengths and density and whatever. If you wanna keep a full-on bush, go for it. If not, then prune.
Godzilla Speaks For Me, RAWR!!!! ;)
I was interested in the point the HTBAW made, that younger men have grown up with easy access to internet p0orn, and in p0rn being bare is the norm, therefore they consider it the norm. I’m with the others that if you want to spend the time & money to landscape in that way it’s your business, but if a man isn’t happy with my landscaping he can go find someone else he more compatible with – I already spend way too much time & money grooming the visible-to-the-public parts of my body, I’m not going to spend more to get hair removed so I look like a 12 year old girl. Just my 2 cents.
I’m sorry but I hate the viewpoint that shaving or waxing all your down there hair makes you look like a 12 year old. No one says your legs look like a 5 year old’s if you shave them.
Anon For This
Yes thank you! I get a brazilian and I don’t think my boyfriend has ever confused me for a child…I agree it should be a matter of personal preference and choice, but I don’t think being completely smooth = childlike
That’s because some 5yr olds have hair on their legs.
Hair on the ladygarden is something that happens specifically because of puberty.
Puberty being that transition between childhood to (physical) s#xual maturity. So the people who make the 12-yr old comments have a point, from the biological perspective. But I think what you don’t like is the undertone of opprobrium when they say the 12-yr old thing.
How about underarms then? Do your underarms look like an 8 year old’s when you shave them? Because underarm hair is absolutely a marker of puberty, but no one’s attaching moral judgment to shaving those.
Actually, some people do attach moral judgment to shaving underarms. I’m not one of them, but don’t pretend it doesn’t happen. Do you remember the opprobrium that Dove got when they had that campaign about some underarm shaving product and they were accused of making women insecure about yet another part of their bodies that men don’t have to worry about?
Also, some European and some East Asian cultures aren’t big on shaving underarms.
If it makes you happy, go for it, but there is a difference. Underarms and legs aren’t sexually significant. The public area is.
I’m against full Brazilians for myself and as the expected norm because it’s so much work! Also, the main backlash is because the porn standard is becoming the everyday standard, and women resent the implication that they’re “gross” in their natural, hairy state, and that they have to be perfectly smooth, perfumed porcelain dolls -like perfect little girls. There is an undeniable obsession with the “perfect” woman being childlike in her manner and appearance (big eyes, soft skin, soft-spoken, innocent), and that does border on the pervy.
But again, I think if it’s something you and your partner enjoy, and you don’t mind the expense and time, and it makes you feel great, go for it.
Er, pubic area. Not public. Except in some beaches in France, I guess.
Isn’t the point of shaving your legs for sex appeal, though? Lord knows I don’t do it for fun.
That’s my issue with it…too much work. A nicely trimmed garden has always been my approach, and husband has never seemed to have an opinion either way.
one point here… women who remove their hair aren’t doing it to “look like a 12 year old girl.” some find it more pleasurable to their partner(s), some find it more pleasurable for themselves, and some equate it with a level of cleanliness that may be true or may be imagined.
let’s remember that, while men might judge gal’s landscapes, we shouldn’t contribute and be judgy too! :)
Amen to everything you said.
Thanks for this post! I totally agree. I don’t like hair, so I laser it all off. I’ve never had a guy complain (in fact it is usually the opposite) and I don’t feel like a 10 year old child.
Does that mean I think every woman should have no hair down there? No! Do whatever makes you feel comfortable!
I apologize, I should not have insulted your preferred appearance. I personally do not like the bare look, but I don’t really care how other women look as it’s none of my business.
Married two years ago, but my experience before that: I never asked about preferences, never got any complaints or comments, only groomed or trimmed when I felt like it. I guess it wasn’t really on my radar, and when I did think about it, I thought if they have a problem, it’s on them to tell me or see themselves out.
It has not been my experience that it is an expected thing, but I haven’t done an extensive survey :) I think there is also a difference between an expectation, a preference, and a “Cool, something new!” reaction. The first is not okay (as I will not be dictated to, since I’m the one who has to live with/maintain), the second will be taken into consideration along with my own preferences, and the third is a fun way to spice things up.
anon for a bit
mid 20s, I’ve been involved with three men
-1. never really said anything, I sort of trimmed.
-2. (long term boyfriend) was excited when I came home from my first wax, and seemed to enjoy it, but didn’t ever demand it
-3. vocally preferred at least some hair
I’ve been wondering where you’ve been, b23! I’ve missed you!
I’ve heard and wondered the same. I guess it doesn’t really matter to me (also long-time married), but the idea that somehow 2012 guys can’t accept any hair down there at all really rubs me the wrong way.
And yes, I realize how dirty that last sentence sounds in this context. :)
“course, with my pregnant belly in the way now, I have no idea what’s going on down there these days.
I started shaving about 8 months into my current relationship and we’ve now been together for 6 1/2 years. He talked about it in a kind of wistful way at the beginning of our relationship but always with the caveat that he would never push me to do it because of the maintenance. I had time one morning and shaved it all off to surprise him. His delight made it all worthwhile and we joke about it being his Christmas present that year. I like it – it’s more comfortable. And he started shaving as well. It’s not something I would ever have considered but I wouldn’t go back at this point. I’ve decided not go anonymous here because you all know I’m not young, so we’re kind of different in that way.
This is a really interesting topic to me. I think about it a lot because my two closest friends often loudly and proudly discuss their shaving habits (hey, it’s usually during happy hour) and I always feel a little judged by their reactions when I don’t participate in the conversation. I don’t want to be seen as dirty, lazy or not sexy because I don’t shave/trim/wax down there. I am definitely conflicted – I will shave my legs and armpits, but I get a great sense of satisfaction from not shaving or waxing the lady garden. I feel like a proud woman, like this is my natural state and I refuse to be molded by porn made by men for men! But I do occasionally shave my legs and armpits, so I’m a hypocrite.
I shouldn’t judge either, I guess. I think I understand the women who do wax and shave — I like having smooth legs sometimes, so it must be a similar motivation. I’m not dark-haired/particularly hairy so I’m assuming some women are motivated to feel more “ladylike,” which is sort of sad to me.
I actually just had this conversation with 2 friends. One shaves it all off, all the time. One does no upkeep of any kind, save for a wax before beach vacations.
My experience is that while some upkeep may be generally expected by the younger set, the only people who actually expect an almost bare/totally bare look are either guys who haven’t seen a lot of real live women naked or only sleep with pornstars/pornstar types. (Not saying bare = pornstar in any way! Only pointing out that there’s variety among most women.)
Ps: I recently read that men are also now expected to trim their hedges/pave them over. Apparently its an effort to make their, um, stuff look bigger. Gillette even posted a how to video on their website and its been watched like a gazzilion times. So, on the one hand, gender equality? On the other, eww, stubble!?
I appreciate some manscaping here and there but for practical reasons, not because it might make a man-garden statue look bigger.
Silly silly. No amount of hedgetrimming will make a garden gnome have the stature of Michelangelo’s David.
Gardening is based on a matter of personal aesthetics. However, personal aesthetics are influenced by current gardening trends. This is the sticky part– and we’ve run into this on a number of other threads– personal choice vs. societal influence. The boundaries are blurry here, no man/woman is an island, etc.
May all your gentleman-callers have this philosophy (Victor Hugo is spinning in his grave right now, I’m sure): “A garden to walk in and immensity to dream in–what more could he ask? A few flowers at his feet and above him the stars.”
+1, Susan. *golfclap*
Laughing, because I recently convinced my SO to let me fully manscape him. I know hair is natural and all that, but a scraggly beard on the boys is not appetizing. That said, we’ve been together long enough that there are times when one or both of us isn’t uh, recently mown, and it’s not a huge deal for either of us.
Agreed, ahem! My husband recently, uh, mowed the lawn for a medical appointment. I’ve encouraged him to keep it up.
Reminiscent of a SATC episode, I became a lot more comfortable with the whole waxing thing when I discovered grays there. I had no idea that happened (I know, how naive), especially to someone who hasn’t gone gray on her head. It definitely made me feel old in a new way!
Been in relationship for 10 years; only had a few gentlemen and lady callers before deciding on a regular garden party guest.
The preference seems to have been for less hair, rather than no hair. Luckily, this coincides with my own preferences.
I use my epilator around the bikini line regularly. The rest, I shave once a month. Very low maintainance.
Also, I’ve always wondered for those who go with a bare lady garden – what about sports? I did it once, for a trip to Hawaii so I wouldn’t have to worry about shaving while we were there, and I had welts from biking / riding. Not good.
What if you do lots of sports that are hard on the lady garden?
I have never had an issue when doing any sports…
I don’t know that it’s a preference for everybody as maybe the ones who think their preference is the trend is more willing to vocalize?
My own lady garden party guest prefers the natural state of the garden, which isn’t necessarily my own preference, but works with my low maintainence life.
Also, I do think that guests who make demands should not get reinvited, IMHO.
Doing my first round of marking, I didn’t realize that I should have made it explicit that one typically use one font and text size and it was an essay, not a collection of random graphs and quotes. I am alternating between good papers and bad papers to keep myself sane.
I’m not teaching this term, and definitely am not missing the dreadfulness of marking bad papers. One thing — mismatched fonts are often a sign of lazy plagiarists pulling things from websites and too bold/dumb to be bothered to make an attempt to disguise it.
Sigh. I’m far too young to pull off the “kids these days” thing, but I can’t help thinking it sometimes.
Yeah, I think less plaigarism and more just pulling random statistics and quotes off websites and presenting them without analysis. This is going to have to be flagged up because it is a hot mess of a paper. But I read a few amazing ones. My strategy is alternating bad ones and good ones, using the good ones as a palate cleanser.
I have conversations with my students about actually reading the articles they are citing and engaging with the material. I talk about the Citation Project, which showed that students cite something from the first page of an article. We talk about how they know they’re ready to start writing (when they can discuss the articles and the subject without notes). We also talk about how a paper is not just a patchwork of the ideas of others.
TJ – so I’m an associate at a small firm and over the last few weeks/months, I’ve grown to hate my job. I seriously dread coming into work in the morning, have little to no motivation and can’t imagine myself doing this in the long-term. I’m going to stick it out for about another year, in which case I’m going to try to make a move.
I have 2 questions:
1) What are things I should be doing over the next year to prepare myself for this type of move/to find a new type of career?
2) my office is fairly sparsely decorated (i.e. nothing) and one of the more sr. associates (as well as the senior partner I work for) constantly comment on my bare walls. In fact, last week, the SA made a comment that it didn’t look like I was settled here. Should I suck it up and try to decorate for the next few months just so people don’t get the sense that I’m just biding my time?
How long have you been there? Did something happen in the last weeks/month that made you feel more negative toward the firm? What do you hate about it?
I’m covering for someone’s (extended) maternity leave, so part of me feels way out of my depth here. I think I also dislike the practice of law – I enjoy the writing and research but I hate the day-to-day communication with clients and opposing counsel (especially opposing counsel) and the posturing and the fact that everything takes forever to resolve, and even then, there doesn’t seem to be a fair resolution. I feel like there has to be something better out there – a more effective way of resolving disputes. Surprisingly enough because I’m a competitive person, but I actually hate how combative things can be.
Will you be able to return to what you were doing before you started covering for the person who’s currently out on maternity leave?
And, what were you doing before?
When you joined this company, what did you think you would be doing? Is there some way you can do some of the things you hoped to be doing at this firm (or, eventually, at some other firm)?
On your first question, I would look up law school alumni in your area and ask for informational interviews. You say you dislike the practice of law, but all the things you mention are specific to litigation. You also say you like research and writing, and that’s like 90% of other types of law practice (regulatory practice comes to mind — that’s a much bigger deal in DC than elsewhere, but I believe there’s some regulatory practice in most parts of the country).
Also, it seems like you dislike the combative nature of litigation. Even though other types of practice, like corporate law, might not have the same heavy volume of research and writing that litigation requires (at least, so I hear from corporate attorneys who say they haven’t touched WestLaw in years), they still lack the parts of litigation that you say you hate.
I’d suggest you talk to as many lawyers and former lawyers in as many practice areas/types of industry as you can, just to get a picture of what’s out there. Find out what a “day in the life” looks like for each of them. Meanwhile, make a list of every activity you’ve done in your life, from summer jobs to school projects to extra curriculars to volunteer work to full time jobs. For each, make two columns: like and don’t like. Under each, write everything you liked about each activity and everything you didn’t like. Finally, use the “like” column to make a job description of your perfect job. When you talk with other lawyers, note how many of their regular work activities fall into each of your like/don’t like columns. When you talk to someone who’s job hits lots of your “likes” and few of your “don’t likes,” follow up and ask how they got to do what they’re doing. Then see if they’ll review your resume and suggest ways to make yourself more appealing to employers in their line of work.
Meanwhile, don’t suck at your current job. Which goes to question two — yes, absolutely, plaster that wall with whatever you need to put up to make your co-workers feel comfortable with you. Also, if you’re in over your head covering someone else’s caseload, get whatever support you need to not f—- it up. Seriously. Your unhappiness is a risk factor when it comes to job performance. It sounds like this is your first job out of law school and it’s almost guaranteed that whatever you do next, you’ll need good recommendations from this job.
“whose job” not “who’s job” — grrr
this is great advice – thank you so much! I knew I had to start by talking to people but laying it all out like this really helps me conceptualize it a lot more.
And you’re dead on with your last point – I’m scared because I’m so unhappy, I’m currently sucking at my job. Even if I decide to stay in law, I’m probably going to switch jobs in a year (I’m planning on moving to be in the same city as my SO once we’re engaged) so I need good references and experience out of this one.
I took over one of my group’s largest clients for someone’s maternity leave after just a year of practicing. It’s tough. I know what you are going through.
My advice is to wait out this crisis. Hopefully, the new mom will come back from maternity and things will return to “normal”. The partners and senior associates who were criticizing my every move went easier on me once the maternity leave was over and I hadn’t gotten the firm fired by the client.
My career tends to go through cycles where I’ll be in a crisis mode for 2-3 months then things will calm down for 4-5 months before cycling back up again. I’ve learned to not make major decisions in crisis mode.
I’m definitely not planning on making any moves for a while, but using this time to assess my options before making a move in a year. You’re absolutely right about not making any decisions now – I’m overwhelmed at work and there is a lot going on in my life so I need to slow down and let things play out a bit before making any life-altering decisions.
why wouldn’t you just put up a calendar and a framed picture or something? It’ll take 5 seconds and can only help; why give them any reason to lay you off before you’re ready to move on?
Also, a small potted plant–non-flowering in case someone has allergies–can go a long way toward brightening things up in the office. I have always had plants in my office, even for jobs I knew were temporary (well, not for 2-month internships, but for every “real job”). Sago palms are almost impossible to kill; spider plants are also pretty hardy and are great air purifiers, too.
You sound exactly like me. The things you like about law and the things you hate are the same things I liked and hated when I was at a firm.
1. Informational interviews (with lawyers at other firms, lawyers who have other practice areas, lawyers who quit being lawyers, lawyers who went inhouse, as well as non-lawyers) are a great place to start. When I was trying to figure out what to do next, I did several informational interviews and found them useful (primarily helping me decide what I didn’t want to do next). I’d also start looking at job postings—what’s out there? how much does they pay and is that amount enough? would you want to do any of those jobs?
2. Probably not a bad idea to put something on your walls. I never did, but no one ever commented. The only time people have commented on my bare walls is at my current job—which I love and intend to keep doing long term. I explained to people that I like bare walls and I have completely bare walls at home. And then I pointed out that a guy who does the same job I do, but has been doing it for 22 years also has nothing on his walls. Then people quit asking about when I was going to hang stuff up.
3. Although you didn’t ask, make sure you’re doing one or two things regularly that you like. An unhappy work situation can become overwhelming very quickly. So whether you do yoga every day or get a massage every month, make sure you do something restful and that’s just about you.
I was in litigation and really disliked it (loved my firm and the people I worked with, but didn’t like the work itself—primarily for the reasons you describe). I’m now a career staff attorney to a judge so I research and write all day, have no clients to talk to, have no opposing counsel to argue with, etc. and am very happy. I don’t know if I can be of use to you, but if you want to talk more offline, feel free to email me: SunnyD6206@aol.com.
This is really helpful! Thank you! I’m not sure I have a general dislike for practicing law, practicing in this area of law/jurisdiction or just at this firm so I think I need to talk to more people to figure it out.
I think I have a lot of work to do in figuring out my next steps…
It took me 4 outfits to get out of the house this morning! Everything was so much cuter in my head than it was on me. I’ve been trying to shuffle my usual combos but it’s really hard. Does anyone have advice for how I can incrementally work on this without taking 20 minutes of trying on and throwing stuff on the bed when it doesn’t work every morning?
Hi SJ, I used to be you!
I have a spreadsheet that lists what I’m going to wear to work every day. I use it to make sure I’m not repeating certain combos too much. It also lets my sleepy, hibernating-bear-like self get dressed without thinking each morning.
However, I took a lot of time preparing this spreadsheet. For a combo to get listed on that spreadsheet, I had to try it on and take a photo of myself in it. That way, I could see if the outfit actually worked, rather than hoping that it would in my head. For iffy combos, I would spend 2-3 hours in the outfit (to see if anything felt too scratchy, too hot, too cold, too tight, too loose, etc.) Road-testing helped the cull the list.
Not sure if you want to be as OCD as I was about compiling my spreadsheet, but since I invested that time, I’ve not had a trying no/throwing stuff onto the bed morning. It’s been worth it for me.
Oh, @Susan (edna_mode_nyc) I love this!!!!! Must. Try.
Wow, impressive! I occasionally fantasize about having that sort of an organizational system, but never put in the effort to make it happen. Color-coding my closet, limiting myself to certain color families, and culling out the pieces that I think ought to fit (but don’t quite) is the most I can commit to for now.
Maybe this is just my lazies showing, but one of the ways I cut down on that kind of morning try-on extravaganza (without the admirable effort of Susan/Edna Mode) is to have 2-3 ways I style/accessorize the same basic outfit. Then, that morning, I know what basic outfit I’m wearing, and I still get the emotional illusion of creativity in choosing the shoes/accessories I “feel like” wearing that day, without any of the wearer’s remorse later in the day.
What you call laziness, I call efficiency. If you can get the same result without as much OCD-ness as me, then that’s more impressive to me.
I can’t be creative in the morning because my brain hasn’t yet defrosted. I am so.not.a.morning.person.
Ha, I’m no morning person either. I just get cranky and rebellious if everything is planned out for me ahead of time (even if I did the planning). I stick with the plan much better with the small illusion of choice. Placating my inner two year old, I guess.
I was really hoping someone was going to tell me about an amazing computer program like the one in Clueless that would help me figure out how to wear my clothes. It sounds like I just need to actually try on the outfits I formulate in my head the night or weekend before rather than 10 minutes before I need to leave the house.
Yes, make the decision the evening before. I typically take time on Sunday to find at least five looks for the week, and that eliminates a lot of morning stress for me.
Okay all I’ve been able to think about all day are the gd Teletubbies because for some reason “Tiddly Winks” makes me think of them for no good reason. Gah! Get out of my head, creepy weirdo Teletubbies!!