This post may contain affiliate links and Corporette® may earn commissions for purchases made through links in this post. As an Amazon Associate, I earn from qualifying purchases.
Our daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices.
The first time I heard about Joseph, it was on a list of workwear brands that fashion editors love. I’ve been drooling over sophisticated, timeless designs ever since. These cropped ivory pants are made from a beautiful stretch cady material that looks luxe, but not too fussy.
I would wear these with a black top and black blazer for an easy, neutral look, or a bright button-front blouse and pearls for a more casual outfit.
The pants are $416.50 (originally $595) at Net-a-Porter and come in French sizes 36–44.
A couple of options on the more affordable side (lucky sizes only, unfortunately) are from Ungaro ($177.75 on sale; straight sizes) and Scotch & Soda ($142.20 on sale; straight sizes). Lafayette 148 New York has a plus-size option that's on sale for $313.90.
This post contains affiliate links and Corporette® may earn commissions for purchases made through links in this post. For more details see here. Thank you so much for your support!
Sales of note for 10.10.24
- Nordstrom – Extra 25% off clearance (through 10/14); there's a lot from reader favorites like Boss, FARM Rio, Marc Fisher LTD, AGL, and more. Plus: free 2-day shipping, and cardmembers earn 6x points per dollar (3X the points on beauty).
- Ann Taylor – Extra 50% off sale (ends 10/12)
- Banana Republic Factory – Up to 50% off everything plus extra 25% off your $125+ purchase
- Boden – 10% off new styles with code; free shipping over $75
- Eloquii – Extra 50% off a lot of sale items, with code
- J.Crew – 40% off sitewide
- J.Crew Factory – 50% off entire site, plus extra 25% off orders $150+
- Lo & Sons – Fall Sale, up to 35% off
- M.M.LaFleur – Save 25% sitewide
- Neiman Marcus – Sale on sale, up to 85% off
- Spanx – Lots of workwear on sale, some up to 70% off
- Talbots – 50% off 2+ markdowns
- Target – Circle week, deals on 1000s of items
- White House Black Market – Buy one, get one – 50% off full price styles
Grumps
Am I just being extra crotchety on a Monday or does anyone else find it annoying when a colleague sends you a meeting invite for a few hours later the same day?
Anon
? I mean if your calendar is showing open and I need the meeting, I’m scheduling the meeting.
Anon
This is normal
Anon
I mean, it’s normal to schedule a meeting for later the same day
Anon
Same day doesn’t bother me, but I do get grumpy when someone sends an invite for like 15-30 mins in the future. I’m usually head-down doing work when not in meetings, so I’d appreciate the “hey, can you talk about this urgent matter?” chat or email – or even just call – vs having someone plop time on the calendar unilaterally.
anon
+1 – just call. Anything that needs to be discussed in 15 minutes from then is why a phone exists.
Anon
But I would much rather the meeting than a random call. I can promise I won’t pick up a call I wasn’t expecting.
To each their own.
Anonymous
This is why I usually message people–need to chat about XYZ for X minutes. Would you like me to give you a call now or put something on your calendar? I will get different answers from the same person depending on the day and circumstances, so it seems like a good strategy.
Anon
If you want to hold time open, label it DNS.
Anonymous
What is DNS? I am a mid career finance exec and I have never heard that acronym. I wouldn’t assume somebody knows what it means if they saw it on your calendar
Anonymous
Not the original poster, but it’s “Do Not Schedule”
I’ve seen this on the higher-ups’ calendars at my company—-not abbreviated though. Definitely a know your office culture issue.
Anonymous
You don’t have to label it. Just block it and don’t share your calendar so people can’t see titles. Your blocked time and meetings will look exactly the same.
Anon
No that seems normal, assuming your calendar is free then.
Cat
if it’s not an urgent topic, I think it’s kind of rude to calendar-bomb you the same day. At that point, you have your day roughly mapped out. People do it, though, especially if you are known to be hard to find time with.
IMHO the best approach – “hey you look open 2-4, can I throw half an hour on there to talk about Y?” – but not always the common one.
Peloton
Map your day out on your calendar if you are someone who maps your day out. My calendar reflects my availability, and I hate the little “are you open at this time” emails when I obviously am—they are a distraction from real work.
Anon
Yes for the love of God, if my calendar shows open send the damn invite!
Anon
Scheduling a meeting is not really akin to dropping a bomb, is it? If it’s really such a big deal then decline the invitation or suggest a new time. Having to ask first to send an invitation (which is an ask in itself, is it not?) seems like pointless hoop jumping, like how women often feel like they should make nice and do mental gymnastics to anticipate others’ needs when no one is asking them to do this. By considering it rude, aren’t we contributing to the garbage culture of women feeling obligated to do unnecessary emotional labor?
cookie monster
Extra crotchety. If your calendar is open and you’re given reasonable notice, say a couple hours, then this is totally normal for every workplace I’ve ever been.
Anon
Agreed
Anonymous
This is normal. Only exception is if it’s a meeting you have to do prep work for!
If you want the time blocked for focused work, block it off!
NYNY
If I’m busy with head-down work that isn’t blocked on my calendar, I will decline the invite and suggest another time. Or if it’s a colleague who holds a lot of meetings-that-could-have-been-emails, I’ll request an agenda and then decline to meet if politically feasible. Protect your time!
Anon
Eh it’s ok to be extra crotchety. I don’t think it’s a requirement to be happy about everything, especially getting back into the work week. Hopefully by the time the meeting occurs you’ll feel better, or failing that, you’ll be glad it’s done and out of the way for the week.
OP Grumps
Alright, noted. I think I’m just at b**** eating crackers level frustration at this point because of all of the dysfunction in my org. Any tips to get past it?
Anon
IDK but I bought a lottery ticket last week (and I am good at math).
Anne-on
Take a day off or if it’s worse than some PTO can handle I’d say it’s time to polish up your resume and start looking.
Anon
Honestly I disagree with everyone commenting – I’ve certainly done it but as a last resort. Isn’t there a saying along the lines of “your poor planning is not my emergency”?
Curious
+1. If you’re not my boss or a teammate who I work closely with, schedule for tomorrow at least. That said, enough people disagree that I block my focused time in advance.
Anon
Sometimes things come up and also, the only meetings I feel like I have to truly prepare for are the ones where I am presenting. Same day meetings are not those meetings and if they were, I would decline. I do not treat work meetings as summonses. I decline when they don’t work and I explain why. I generally don’t see a same day meeting as an emergency (I may just want to talk while details are fresh in my brain) but clearly we all have different office preferences.
Anonymous
In my industry (law), scheduling same-day meetings isn’t typically the result of an emergency the meeting planner created. Usually it’s because a time-sensitive client-related or other issue has cropped up. Refusing to schedule same-day meetings would be out of touch and out of the norm. My takeaway from this discussion is that this is a know-your-industry kind of thing!
Amy
Yea this is the remote-work environment equivalent of dropping by someone’s office from the before times. You need to be able to have same-day discussions with your colleagues.
Anon
IDK but I just met a friend for a quick work breakfast at one of those places where you stand in line to order at the counter and then they bring the food to you. The line was 10+ people long when I got there and moving slowly. I decided to make a game of it after about 4 people, and sure enough the 6 remaining people in front of me were the same. Wait in line for 15 minutes, then when it’s your turn, that’s when you start thinking about what you might get. That’s when you decide to get your dining companion’s input on what you should order, and that’s when you hem and haw about the two things you’re considering.
Never mind that there were menus you could grab along the way, never mind that everything edible is displayed in a glass case along the line. Let’s take our time once we’re at the cashier to decide what we might like for breakfast.
I realize I’m grumpy but COME ON, people.
Anon
I once worked for an (expletive) who would send around meeting invites at 8:45 am for 9 am sharp. I don’t mind “later in the day meetings;” I loathe “right now and hope you didn’t get stuck in traffic” meetings.
Anonymous
I’ve been quite covid cautious this whole time, but I desperately want to get back to group fitness classes. There aren’t any good options outdoors right now – way too hot. I’ve tried wearing a mask during a workout and struggled. I just feel like if I do one more peloton or Obe workout at home I will scream. But I know sooo many people with covid right now and part of me wants to wait for a fall booster before I go back to class for some extra protection. I know everyone’s individual risk and risk tolerance is different, but if you’ve been back to group fitness classes, can you reassure me?
Anon
No one can reassure you? If you participate in group fitness classes, or spend any other time around other people indoors and w/o a mask, you are highly likely to get COVID. If you’re vaccinated, you are not high risk, and you don’t spend time around high-risk people, you may be OK with that.
Anon
+1
Your options are wait until BA5 dwindles and feel safer about in person classes, or do an in person class and have a fairly high likelihood of getting COVID. Only you can decide if you’re ok with that.
If you choose the latter and do get COVID, please do quarantine appropriately.
Anon
I’ve been doing group fitness classes – outdoors, then masked indoors, and then a combination of well-ventilated indoors & outdoors (for fun setting more than safety) – since ~June 2020. I think the set up of the space & workout makes a huge difference in risk level. Like, right now I do workouts in a big gym w/a 20 foot ceiling & open garage doors at either end, and I’m also usually 10 feet from people when working out. As you dip your toe back in, may start somewhere that is less of a heavy-breathing, enclosed, soup of people’s breath – whether that’s a lighter workout or bigger space?
Ribena
I have been. If you call your gym they might be able to tell you which ones tend to be more spaced out – but even looking on the booking system and seeing which ones reliably have places left can be an indicator to this. I also remind myself that this is one of the few risky things I do – and if I happen to do lots of other risky things in a week I’ll skip the gym classes.
Cat
FWIW, we (boosted) have been acting fairly normal since just past the Omicron surge (travel, indoor dining, etc), but were being extra careful in April (KN95’s indoors, and at that, I mean indoors with others only in grocery stores etc or in a sparsely-populated office, no indoor dining) for an upcoming event. Of course, THAT is the period during which we caught Covid (symptoms, thankfully mild, were 10-11 days after we were last unmasked inside). It feels like catching it is inevitable so you might as well go to your class, unless you or someone you’re in contact with is more vulnerable.
Anon
The incubation period can be up to 14 days. I wouldn’t assume you got it while masked.
As anecdata the other way, we’re back to most activities but wearing KN95s indoors and avoiding indoor things like dining where we’d have to unmask. We’re pretty much the only people we know who haven’t gotten Covid. I know there’s probably an element of luck, but I don’t think high quality masks are worthless.
Peloton
I went back maskless while pregnant.
At some point, you trust the vaccine science or you don’t. You trust the risk probabilities for your age and demographic or you don’t. You trust the science on how Covid has mutated, or you don’t.
For my body and life, the risks associated with obesity, inactivity, and mental illness far, far outweigh the risk of getting severe illness (again, given vaccination and how the virus has mutated for people like me). I suspect you will find you are in the same boat if you look at the data. I would not go to a concert or something with hundreds of people inside, but a 20 person 40 minute spin class? Yep, within my acceptable risk threshold.
Peloton
I will note that I will not be going back after baby is born for a few months, both for healing and Covid reasons. I trust my immune system and vaccination status to protect me. I don’t necessarily protect her immune system to protect her. So, your risk tolerance obviously depends on your dependents, but since you don’t mention any, I assumed there are none.
Anonymous
I do trust the science, which demonstrates that vaccines reduce the probability of “severe” illness but don’t do much to prevent infection. I can’t afford the time off, brain fog, etc. that’s associated with a “mild” case of COVID, so I’m not relying on vaccination alone and am continuing to mask.
Peloton
That sounds like you’re making the right call for your own life and risk profile, then!
Amy
Yeah if you’re OP and you can’t even tolerate any risk of GETTING the virus, then indoor group classes are not for you at this point. Not sure what else this board can tell you.
Emma
This is where I’m at too. I’m 7 months pregnant, fully vaxed and had it shortly before getting pregnant. My doctor’s advice was that my risk of severe COVID was pretty low and the benefits of being active during the pregnancy outweighed the risks. I’ve been going to indoor and mask-less spinning class (honestly pretty crowded), prenatal yoga (pretty spaced out) and the pool (has a reservation system so not too crowded). I’m in a place with high vaccination rates but there have been recent outbreaks, like everywhere.
Anonymous
You don’t have to go to spin class to exercise during pregnancy, though. Ever heard of the outdoors?
Anon
There are not insignificant risks with biking outdoors for a pregnant woman. If you’re going to be snarky, at least be smart about it.
Peloton
Lol what a hostile and judgmental comment.
Emma
I have heard of the outdoors, thanks. I walk my dog outside several times a day. But my take is that biking in my city is a lot more dangerous than spinning. It’s also really hot and I don’t do well with heat, even when I’m not pregnant. Again, my doctor is fully on board and I’m old enough to make my own risk assessments, but to each their own.
No Face
It’s been 100+ degrees nearly every single effing day this summer in my corner of the Midwest. Way more dangerous for a pregnant woman.
Amy
Well, this is a dumb comment only bc it’s completely possible use an exercise bike indoors and avoid the group spin class.
Anonymous
I agree with most of this except I think a concert where everyone is masked (or even just where you are masked) and is actually a lot safer than a spin class.
Anonymous
I think a concert is safer than spin class unless it’s the kind where everyone is yelling and singing along. But if you’re masked, any concert is going to be safer than unmasked spin class.
Peloton
If you live in a region where all of the hundreds or thousands of people at a concert would actually be masked and would not remove that mask to eat or drink at any point during the concert, then perhaps! I do not.
Anon
I go to the theater and concerts where I’m masked but very few other people are (<10%). I would not go to an indoor exercise class mask-less. The data suggests that if you're wearing a KN95 or N95 mask, you're pretty well protected. It's not perfect but it's a lot better than nothing.
Peloton
I think we may just value the activity differently! If I loved concerts, I’d probably do the same. (And I always would be eating or drinking during them, so I wouldn’t be a good masker!). But my favorite thing on earth is group fitness classes, so I would rather take that risk than the concert risk. All about just doing the things that feel worth it to you.
Anon
Yeah, it’s definitely a cost benefit analysis for me too. Indoor fitness classes and indoor dining don’t have much benefit to me since I have good outdoor alternatives for those things. Theater and airplane travel have very high benefit to me, so I mask up and go.
Anonymous
I have tried going back, and I can’t reassure you. During the spring lull I tried Burn Boot Camp, which has a big garage door at the back of the studio that they often keep up. I figured with that plus mask I’d feel pretty safe. It turned out to be too difficult to work out strenuously in a mask, I felt like a weirdo for being the only one masked, and I just couldn’t bring myself to take off the mask because I didn’t want to jeopardize other things in my life or my family’s life by getting sick. I stopped going when my four-week trial ended and am resigned to home workouts forever. Right before the pandemic there was a bad flu outbreak at the Y where I’d been attending yoga and Les Mills classes, so I don’t think the problem is exclusive to COVID. Without excellent ventilation it’s just too risky to be crammed into a tiny room with a bunch of people breathing heavily, COVID or not.
Anonymous
I’ve been back in group fitness maskless since two weeks after I was fully vaccinated. I’ve also had Covid, and didn’t get it from group fitness. Yes. Breathing heavily inside is a good way to get Covid. But I’m not looking to avoid all risk.
Anonymous
Nothing to reassure. It’s an activity with higher risk than many of and risk specific to your circumstances, so all you can do is mitigate what you can or avoid. That doesn’t change by looking for peer pressure or acceptance.
Mrs. Jones
I am double boosted and have gone back to yoga, no masks, and haven’t gotten Covid again (had it in 2020) yet. I do not live with immunocompromised people.
No Face
I’ve been back at fitness classes for months. I only got COVID after an outbreak at my toddler’s daycare.
There’s no risk free lifestyle. If you want to reduce your risk somewhat, go to a classes in a large facility when there isn’t a surge.
No Face
Just adding that I appreciated recovering from COVID in my current, healthy, fit state instead of my unhealthy overweight pandemic body.
Anonymous
I am shocked at the number of people on this thread insisting that the only way to exercise is at the gym or in group fitness classes. You can absolutely exercise outdoors or at home if it’s too hot outside. Of course it’s not as much fun, but catching COVID is really not fun.
Anon
I’ve read all the replies, and no one says that. The responses say that it’s risky, but each person has to make their own risk assessment. Some people truly connect best with certain types of fitness classes, and those specific people are saying the risk is worth it to them. The OP herself actually says that she’s been doing at-home workouts.
Anon
Yeah, the preggos doing spin class unmasked seem frankly insane to me.
Peloton
Cool! I would say that if you think this is “insane,” you may need to get offline and touch some grass. Many pregnant women have much higher risk vectors than going to spin a couple times a week. It’s almost like adult women are capable of evaluating risk for themselves and making the decisions that are best for them in conjunction with their doctors!
Anon
At least one pregnant person above said she’d talked to her doctor about it. So, anyway, I’m sure they’ll be glad to know that a random internet stranger disapproves. Did you also know that a lot of pregnant women ride in cars, take medications that haven’t been specifically tested on pregnant women, eat lunch meat, and drink limited alcohol, all with the approval of their doctors? Just like exercising indoors right now, this is after thinking about the risks vs benefits in the situation (and, again, apparently in conversation with actual medical professionals…)
Anon
My actual medical professionals think my mom really probably shouldn’t have done some of that stuff!
Duckles
I think the answer is you have to rethink what you think “way too hot” is. I’m in the SEUS and otherwise mostly back to normal (haven’t worn a mask in I don’t know how long, go to indoor sit-down bars, etc) and even I’m not doing indoor workout classes bc boutiques are just such small rooms with people breathing hard that I’m not comfortable. Do early am or after dark group workouts or get used to the heat— I still see people doing them in the park in the 90s. Or laps at your public pool?
Anonymous
My highs for this week are all 110F or over. 90 is the just before dawn low. I’m not spending more than 5 minutes outside.
Anon
Looking to buy a very entry level, affordable road bike. I participate in the occasional triathlon (for the fun of it, I’m not racing to win!) and I also enjoy 10-15 mile rides on paved trails near me. I’m currently using a very old (nearly 20 years old), very heavy (I barely lift it on my bike rack) hybrid and it’s just not cutting it.
I don’t need something super fancy or high end, just a lighter frame and better gears. I’d love to go on longer rides than I do now, but my bike is so heavy and slow it’s not that fun to go longer than 10ish miles.
Basically, I want a “starter bike” to confirm that I do enjoy biking and if I end up using it as often as I think I will, I’d upgrade to a nicer bike in a few years. Not only do I not want to spend $$ now, it’s also not in my grad school budget. I’m sure I could get a better deal buying used, but grad school + full time job means I don’t have time to dig through marketplace or Craigslist for a good option.
I know very little about bikes (other than they’re fun to ride) so am open to all suggestions.
Anon
To clarify – looking to spend < $500. Something in the $300 range is ideal. I see plenty of bikes in this range for sale online but when you look up “best starter bikes” articles or go to cycling stores the starter bikes are over $1000!
I’m really just a casual weekend cyclist looking for a good option in my budget.
Anon
I feel like going in to a local Play it Again Sports (we have local orgs like this also) and talking to a person might be the way to go here. Basic kids’ bikes are >$500 new if they are bike-store bikes vs Walmart bikes.
Anon
I’m totally totally fine with a Walmart bike.
I have never heard of play it again sports (or any used sporting good store). I will see if there are any in my area. I but almost all of my clothes and furniture second hand so this would be an exciting find!
Anonymous
Do not get a Walmart bike! It will be heavy and difficult to pedal and maneuver. Buy a used Cannondale or Trek hybrid bike if you want to be able to use it on paths and trails. A road bike is only for the road.
Don’t mess with Play It Again. Check local bike buy/sell groups on FB and try your local bike shop.
Anon
Yup – don’t want a hybrid (which I have now), I want a road bike bc the trails I ride on are all paved.
Anonymous
If you already have a hybrid, just ride that! Walmart doesn’t even sell road bikes.
Anon
I mean the frame is rusting, I need new tires and my gears need help so I figured instead of putting money into a bike I don’t like I’d just get a new one.
Anonymous
The solution to “I hate my cheap heavy hybrid” isn’t to buy a cheap road bike. Buy a real road bike or even a real hybrid.
Anon
You can take it to get rehabbed at a bike shop. IDK why a bike would rust — it’s not iron.
Anonymous
But everyone below is saying that bike shops won’t work on cheap bikes!
Anon
You have to talk to an actual person and ASK. They won’t scream at you but will just say yes or no. Bike shops have been hopping busy, so just may service their own bikes or may have enough capacity to take yours in and make it better for not a ton of $. But you have to ask.
Anonymous
Should have clarified that that comment was sarcastic. I too have a cheap Walmart bike (the horror!) and I have gotten it serviced at both independent bike shops and at a Trek shop – all during the busy pandemic times abc they’ve been gracious and helpful and not at all stuck up
Anon
Steel frames and components rust.
LBS mechanics won’t work on something they can’t fix. While they are generally fine to replace a cassette or chain on a big box store bike, more extensive repairs often aren’t possible due to rust, corrosion, poor assembly, etc. An ethical mechanic isn’t going to take your money for a problem they can’t fix.
Anon
I got mine at a local independent bike store that was selling a used bike on commission for a regular customer. It is perfect for me and was about $300.
Cat
Do you have an independent bike shop near you? You could ask them if they ever do used-bike sales. Some of them will periodically offer their older rental bikes at discounted prices, others may host periodic used-gear sales where customers can bring in their own, etc.
anon
I’d post on next door and see if anyone in your neighborhood is selling one. Or facebook marketplace or buy nothing. $300 isn’t going to get you anything at a bike shop.
Anon
Yup. Not expecting a bike shop bike! Am totally fine with Amazon/Walmart. I just don’t know enough to determine a total piece of crap cheaper bike vs a serviceable one.
Anon
All the walmart bikes are pieces of crap. But you get what you pay for so unless you can find a nicer one being sold used, that’s what you are going to get at that price range.
You need to figure out what size frame you need and then hope for the best.
Anon
Ok this is potentially a dumb question but how are they pieces of crap and as a casual cyclist does it really matter?
I’m not from an upbringing where people can spend thousands on hobbies so this is uncharted territory for me (like I camp in a $30 Walmart tent and hike with a $50 LL Bean hiking backpack abd $70 hiking boots, and surf with an $80 Walmart wetsuit. I know this equipment can be $$$, but I also know the cheaper alternatives are good enough for a casual participant like me).
I just want a bike that isn’t heavy as heck and has working gears.
Cat
The materials required to make a bike that’s lighter weight and more reliable are more expensive than the materials that go into a cheap bike. There is no magic “lightweight but not ~fancy~ lightweight” material that is the secret to finding a $300 easy-to-find option.
Anon
For reasons others have explained, a bike is unlike other items where cheap will do fine but just might wear out sooner
Anon
What Cat said. The cheap bikes have cheap components that break more often and which most bike shops won’t fix for you. So you’re going to end up having to replace a bike that isn’t particularly comfortable to ride on earlier than you would ever need to replace an entry level bike shop bike that they will actually fix for you (vs having to get a whole new POS bike).
Anonymous
Anon 10:28, my Walmart bike is over 15 years old and I’ve taken it to bike shops to be worked on.
Anonymous
There is no such thing as a serviceable brand-new bike that isn’t from a bike shop. You need a used bike.
Anonymous
Understood. I think I just assumed what cyclists would find serviceable vs what I would find serviceable would be quite different and thus I could get by with a cheaper option.
Anonymous
Oh, you can certainly tell the difference. I am not a “cyclist” by any stretch of the imagination, but I find riding a big box store bike so unpleasant that I’d rather skip biking altogether. An entry-level real bike is fine for me.
Quail
I have a road bike that I purchased from an estate sale that’s about 20 years old, but it has great components (parts) because the previous owner took great care of the bike and upgraded appropriately. Because the frame is a lightweight, expensive material, it’s a great bike. So a good bike won’t have to be replaced as often as a crappy bike. When you are looking at used bikes, look at the components (shifters, breaks,derailleurs) and see if they are the same as the name of the entry level road bikes made by trek or giant. That’s a good way to tell whether a bike is a good frame – no one would put quality parts on a crummy frame.
But I’ll caution that a used bike that seems too good to be true is probably stolen. I had friends get burned with that.
LadyB
An entry level road bike is ~$1k. There is absolutely a difference between a walmart bike and a bike from a bike shop. With your budget, I highly suggest using FB Marketplace. Getting a decent bike will increase your riding enjoyment exponentially.
Anon
For $300-500, you’re either going to find something that needs a bunch of work, is stolen, or is a POS. It’s, unfortunately not a realistic budget for something better than what you have now.
Does your city have a bike co-op? That, or a long-term loan from someone in your city’s triathlon or cycling club could get you what you’re after.
Anon
I have a few friends who have gotten fine road bikes for $150ish from FB Market place who use their bikes like OP wants to
Anon
Either it was well before COVID or they walked into a crazy good deal (or they bought a stolen bike). OP, if you were in my city, I’d loan you my old road bike for as long as you were in town. Surely someone in your tri or bike club has a rainy day bike kicking around?
Anon
I am not in a tri or bike club. I’m just a casual weekend athlete!
Honestly, my experiences with the triathlon community have not been great – I found it pretty exclusive so while I will keep competing in them because they’re fun I don’t have a desire to join a club (nor the time! I compete in a lot of different activities – club soccer, half marathons, trail running – that I’m not committing all in to one type of race)
Anon
It’s all well and good to not go full tri-dork, but as a fellow person who isn’t made of money, the way you get a good bike is to snap one up when the folks who are made of money get the newest shiny thing and let their old bike go for a song because they know you and want to get rid of it. It’s networking, in spandex :-)
Anon
You say you just want a lighter frame and better gears, but that’s exactly what you have to pay more to get- those parts are expensive. If you just want a cheap bike, get one from Walmart. If you want a nicer bike, you either need to pay a lot more or put in the work to find a used one.
Anon
Thanks for the replies. I guess I will be stuck with my crappy bike then! I will say – this bike was a Walmart bike and for the first 15 years of it’s life it was great for what it was so I thought I could upgrade to a similar bike that was newer/a little lighter (like Walmart road bike vs Walmart hybrid bike) – so maybe I eke out 20 years on this bike (it was my sister’s childhood bike!).
I really thought that there were decent cheaper bikes for a casual cyclist out there but I guess not. With some cyclists/triathletes being kind of elitist about gear I assumed that “starter bikes” being $1k-$3k were because they wouldn’t even entertain a bike without an ultra light frame/disk breaks/clip in pedals, etc. So, that’s why I incorrectly assumed there was a middle ground in the $500ish range: nicer than a 15+ year old Walmart hybrid but not a bike that costs more than a months rent.
Anon
I really loved my Schwinn which was about $300 when I bought it in the 90s. It was a lot better than cheaper bikes I’ve had. I am a casual cyclist, but it lasted years. I’m not sure what it would cost today or whether that’s still a good brand. But I’m skeptical that there’s nothing in your price range that is not an upgrade.
Anon
As am I. I really thought there’d be something in my price range better than my current bike but not fancy. Like even just advancements over the last 15 years might have made crappy cheap bikes better? Or that my bike as 21 gears but not only 7 of them work so on a new bike all 21 would work?
anon
Have you considered just buying a new hybrid bike since you aren’t doing anything too strenuous anyway? You could buy one at REI for about $700 and I think it will feel much nicer than your current bikes. My husband has biked commuted on one for years and done many rides of the distance you are talking about.
Anonymous
I don’t know much about bikes but could someone explain what’s “wrong” with a bike like this? https://www.walmart.com/ip/Genesis-700c-Saber-Men-s-Road-Bike-Medium-White/841500714
Anon
It is very cheaply made. The components re low end. It will not last and it will be hard to get it serviced. Cheap bikes are not a good deal for anyone that is actually going to ride regularly.
Anon
And it was assembled by someone who is most certainly NOT a bike mechanic.
Anonymous
Heavy. Difficult to control. Crummy derailleurs and brakes that won’t work right. Etc. OP is better off sticking with her existing hybrid than wasting money on this. Surely she can find something much better used for $500 or less.
Anon
My existing hybrid is a Walmart bike. I was like 25 before I even learned non-Walmart bikes existed. That’s why I’m getting so confused on this thread. People say Walmart bikes are crappy because they don’t last, bike shops won’t work on them, etc and that has not been my experience. I get they’re not great but I think for now I’m looking for affordable + better than what I have now? Honestly I’m not super sure, I’m getting confused. While I knew people had several thousand dollar bikes, I didn’t realize the options were Walmart bike which everyone here is very against or $1,000 minimum.
I have a post in moderation but I’m not from an upbringing where people spend $1,000 on hobbies so learning that apparently most people, even casual cyclists, spend that much is actually blowing my mind. Honestly even the idea of spending $500 on a bike seemed like a lot to me!
Anonymous
But you do not like the Walmart bike because it’s heavy and doesn’t have enough gears, so why would you buy another? Everyone is telling you your budget is reasonable if you’re willing to entertain the idea of a used bike.
Cat
I found exactly what you’re looking for – a good-quality but not Tour de France crazy-fancy road bike that was $500 – at a local bike shop. Like 15 years ago. Prices are up.
Anon
I think there’s a big difference between hybrid bikes and actual road bikes. You probably can get a decent hybrid for that price, but the lighter frame and more expensive components mean that entry level road bikes cost more than decent hybrid bikes. So that’s another option to consider- a hybrid bike with smooth tires is actually a better bike for just riding around than a road bike, in my experience. It’s more stable on bad roads, easier to ride in the grass when necessary, and you’re less likely to blow tires, plus the more upright position can be more comfortable if you have back issues or just need to navigate traffic and pedestrians. It won’t be as light, but can still be fun to ride. As for the bike shop thing, people are talking about two different kinds, the kind that caters to serious cyclists and the kind that deals with everyone. You definitely want the latter.
Anon
Before COVID, you could find a good used road bike or a new bike shop entry level hybrid for around $500. That was sort of the floor for something decent quality and maintainable. Since COVID, that floor has risen. It sucks, but it’s what we’re dealing with. There is a venn diagram of cycling – cheap, light/fast, good quality. Pick 2.
Anon
Okay that is helpful! Maybe I’ll look into a newer mid range hybrid then! I just want something not as heavy and easier to ride. Maybe that’s not a road bike (I very clearly don’t know enough).
I’m a fit person and getting my bike up one flight of stairs to my apartment is a workout, as is loading it onto my trunk level bike rack. When I’m biking it always feels like I’m peddling through molasses and I never seem to be able to break 10-11 mph on my bike even going full speed. I get passed by literally everyone, even people on a leisurely ride on citibikes. After about 12 miles, my back hurts because the bike is so heavy. I just want a bike I can lift and that is fun to ride.
Anon
My 20+ year old Huffy from Kmart is still functional. My kid now rides it around the neighborhood but it is on its last legs. And WOW is there a world of difference between it and an entry level “real” bike. I am a casual cyclist who recently got a Trek Verve 2 hybrid ($800 new – a stretch for a hobby for me, but I am counting it as my summer vacation). After only a few rides I can say the price was well worth it. Since my local bike shop stocks and services Trek it is the brand I selected. I would suggest finding something your local bike shop stocks so parts and service are easier to obtain.
Things that were quirky on the Huffy even when it was brand new work so smoothly on the Trek that I barely notice them. Instead of focusing on whatever weird noise the bike decided to make today, I enjoy the scenery, my workout, conversation with my friends, etc. The Trek is also much lighter than the Huffy, which means it is easier to cart around and takes less effort to pedal because I’m not hauling extra weight around. It has quick-release wheels, too, which means it is fast and easy to take a wheel off with no tools and stuff the whole thing in a car for transport.
If $500 is a stretch but you want something better than what you have now, I would recommend making friends with your local bike shop folks, let them know what you are looking for and your constraints, and ask if they can connect you with any used options they hear of. In the meantime, if you can be patient and save up a bit more, I think you will not regret a nicer bike. You can always resell it for close to what you pay if you find it not to your liking.
Popsicle
Hi! I love biking and have bought several bikes and helped friends buy bikes over the years. I cannot recommend a Walmart bike if you are looking for a comfortable riding experience that will be a joy for more than 10 miles, allow you to maintain more than 12mph speeds, and be easy to lift up/down stairs. They are not designed for that purpose. If you want to go there and buy a bike, I will not stop you but don’t expect it to feel better than your current bike.
At your budget I recommend making a friend (maybe from your triathlons) who has too many bikes and asking if you can buy one off her. Or check Craigslist. Or join a road biking Facebook group in your city — sometimes people post used bikes for sale there. Buying used takes more time but I don’t think you can optimize both time and cost.
Another option is an entry level road bike at Giant. But a more realistic budget is probably around $600. Giant is nice because they are direct to consumer so you can get slightly more bang for your bike than Trek or Specialized. You could also check bikesdirect.com for more direct to consumer options. My partner got a bike there.
The best option would be to check out the local bike shops in your area, and test ride a bunch of bikes. It should be free to just ride a bike around the block a few times. If you feel no difference, go to Walmart and save yourself the $$. And if you do decide to up your budget, you will know that you are paying for a better riding experience and will appreciate it every time you ride.
Anonymous
As someone who was looking to get into biking, this thread has kind of turned me off of it. I get that equipment costs money but I have spent my entire life being the sole middle class person surrounded by well off people and I don’t need a hobby where the entry cost is at least $1,000. I didnt expect bikes to be super cheap, but anything where entry costs are so high is a little elitist and definitely exclusive. Even golf has a lower entry barrier.
Anonymous
Bike prices are shockingly high and seem to have gone up recently as a result of demand. We spent well over $3,000 last year on basic entry-level hybrid bikes + car rack + absolutely necessary accessories (locks, helmets, water bottles and cages, one repair kit) for our family of three last year. It’s discouraging. At least once you make the investment it’s pretty much free to participate. No greens fees or lift tickets.
Anon
You can certainly spend less than that and still get into biking, there are just trade offs involved. If you are willing to deal with a heavier bike with fewer features in exchange for a lower entry cost, that is totally doable and totally respectable. The OP noted things she didn’t like and asked for suggestions; the reality is that if she wants a bike that fits her parameters there is a cost associated with those preferences. That doesn’t mean a cheaper bike is to be looked down upon.
Anonymous
Thank you for the reassurance. Maybe it’s my own biases, but some of the comments were reading “$1,000+ bike from a real bike shop or don’t bother”, which is not a community I want to be in. And, my limited in person experience with the cycling community has also been that experience, which is a shame. As a runner and hiker I’m very pro-fitness and pro-outdoors and think everyone should have the opportunity for these activities but was just talking to a good friend of mine about how whenever we try to expand into other outdoors/fitness ventures they become cost prohibitive and/or the community is not welcoming.
Anon
I love nothing more than passing MAMILS on my $500 hooptie. The bike/tri scene is excellent people watching.
Anon
Ok, maybe don’t let yourself care what people are saying when they answer somebody else’s specific question?
Anon
Ok but there were so many comments about cheap bikes being terrible I easily see how Anonymous felt the way she did. The OPs question wasn’t a hyper specific question – it applied to anyone wanting a midrange bike.
Anon
Of course you can ride on a bike priced at any level. The big box store bikes are just going to be heavier, not as smooth or comfortable to ride, and potentially harder to get serviced. If that’s fine by you, no one is going to stop you!
Anon
I’m the 11:55 Anon, and glad you found it helpful! There are definitely snobs in biking just like there are in any other hobby, but there are tons of really nice, normal people as well. Don’t let the grouchy ones ruin your fun. Starting with whatever bike fits your budget and is available is fine. And it is fine to stay with that bike forever if it does what you want it to do.
There is a house on a rarely traveled side road in my rural neighborhood with 5 bikes out for garbage pickup today and I am honestly considering grabbing them on my way home. They look like no-name random old things, but I live on a busier street and if I put them in my yard with a “Free” sign on them they will go like hotcakes. Better someone gets to use them than that they get trashed, even if they are not fancy.
Anonymous
Decent used bikes are not that much. I know the pandemic has inflated prices, but I think you can absolutely get a bike that is a step up from a big box store bike for under $300. I have had a used Specialized “hybrid” for a 15 years, and when I bought it used (from Recycle a Bicycle in NYC), my new U-lock cost almost as much. Research what bikes are recommended for your needs, figure out what size you need, and then search Craigslist or FB Marketplace for those models (or even brands).
Anon
You think or you know?
Anon
A lot changes over the course of 15 years, you know…
Anon
Google “bike co-op” and see if your city has one. There are definitely ways for cycling to be an economical hobby, but it’s not turn-key, so to speak. Over the years I’ve been riding, my cost per mile is well under a penny, and I have pretty blingy bikes (that are each >20 years old, bought used). I maintain them, procure no longer available parts of eBay, etc. The bikes will most likely outlast me.
Anonymous
I totally get what you mean. I think there are several obnoxious things about bike elitism, especially from a particular kind of middle aged man.
Unfortunately the 1000 dollar starting price is true – for a roadbike. The roadbike part is important, other bikes like mountain bikes or hybrids can be cheaper! Even at big box stores or chain sports stores where I live a roadbike will start at 1200, maybe down to 900 online. The same stores will have hybrids from 350.
OP, one thing to consider in your situation is weighing your current bike. If your current bike weighs 40 pounds, a new, “heavy” hybrid at 30 pounds might still feel like an upgrade. If your current bike has cantilever breaks, maybe disc brakes will feel like an upgrade. If your current bike has 26 inch wheels, maybe 28″ wheels will help you get faster (I prefer smaller wheels, but they are slower).
Anon
I was where you were a few years ago. The best thing to do is to go to local bike shops, in-person, and look at and try as many bikes as you can. Pick them up, try out the brakes, look at the gearing, etc. You’ll learn so much this way. Talk to salespeople and tell them that you’re looking to upgrade your current bike but stay within your budget, and ask what they recommend. When I was where you were I thought I wanted one thing but really needed another, and then a few years later went through the process all over again as my riding style changed as I progressed. A good shop will be happy to speak with you, and if someone’s a jerk to you, it’s not you, it’s them! Both times I ended up buying refurbished used bikes for $500-$600 each, and my hunch is you’ll get the best value this way. The in-person legwork was really what made this possible, it just wasn’t feasible for me to do all of the learning online. It may be a slower process than ordering online, but it can be enjoyable, too.
Also, some cycling clubs are elitist, but others aren’t, and I’ve gotten so much help from my club, I really do think it’s worth seeking out a good group, maybe even at your university.
Anon
Thank you so much! This was a really helpful answer
Anon
This is the best advice. You really need to try bikes in person to see what you like and feel what the weight-price trade off is.
Anon
This is a good idea.
Anon
This. I don’t think OP actually is going to want a road bike.
Senior Attorney
If you’re short (I’m 5’2″) and in L.A., I have a nice carbon fiber road bike I will sell you for $400 or so. Paid like $2000 a few years ago.
Anon
Such a kind offer but I’m on the other side of the country :)
Anon
Probably worth it even if you pay for shipping.
Anon
I am also too tall!
Jules
Look at Wirecutter. Its recommended hybrid bike (I know you said you want a road bike but this one apparently is light) was $500 at the time of the post last August.
https://www.nytimes.com/wirecutter/reviews/best-hybrid-commuter-bike/
Coach Laura
OP – if you’re still reading, I got the Fairfax which is recommended in the article Jules posted. I have actually had 3 Marin bikes – Kentfield and Fairfax I got off craigslist. But the new Kentfield is only $600. I also bought a Muirwoods.
So check out Marin. But also, as others said, ride a few bikes at local bike stores. And level with them on what you want to spend.
Anonymous
Take a look at Liv “Fitness” bikes. They are the women’s line from Giant. New they are in $560-$700 range according to their website.
https://www.liv-cycling.com/us/bikes/road-bikes/fitness
I know this is probably above or at top end of your budget – but I think you would find this an amazing upgrade.
Anon
I think this is exactly what I was looking for. Thank you!!!
Trip worries
My family is going to visit my husband’s parents at their beach house in a few weeks. My husband let me know that he will probably have to work the whole time we are there and will not be able to take any time off. My in-laws can watch the kids (ages 6 and 4) for a bit but we aren’t going to watch them all day every day. I have my own company and typically work part time, so I technically can probably take off the week if I want to. I’m just not at all looking forward to a week of watching the kids myself / being with my inlaws without my husband for most of the day. I don’t enjoy spending time with my inlaws at all and every visit with them gives me a lot of anxiety. Skipping the trip is not an option at this point. Any advice for how to get through this? I was neutral on the trip before but now I’m really dreading it.
Anne-on
I’m curious why it’s not an option to skip or postpone to a time when you both can have time off? It’s one thing if it was your parents but I think it’s a real jerk move to inform your spouse you’re going to be MIA on a visit to your family when you know they struggle to enjoy time with the family and the kids are too young to drop off.
If it’s really non-negotiable I’d push your husband to commit to a 9-5 schedule and then MAKE him stick to it – leave the house at 7am to get coffee/take a gym class, and take a walk/go for a swim/shop for groceries at 5pm. Try to divide the day into chunks of time – they may be willing to do the 9-11am chunk of time if you take the kids from 11-1. I find having an ‘activity’ even if it’s ‘go for a walk to the deli, pick out sandwiches and eat them in the playground’ helps. Give into screen time if it doesn’t result in meltdowns. Good luck!
anon for this
Ugh, that stinks. I think that a schedule and clear expectations among all the adults will be your friend here. Can the grandparents commit to say 3 hours each morning plus lunch with the kids, then give them 90 minutes of quiet time? Take games, puzzles, art activities, etc so they have options to entertain the kids. That should buy you several hours to work and give you a defined break from parenting, even if you are nearby for emergencies. Then you can take the afternoon shift to dinner, and hand the kids off to your husband for evening and bedtime.
You might post on the moms page too for more ideas.
Trip worries
OP here – My husband is a biglaw atty and I think the issue of him not being able to take off is more because if he does he will be behind on his hours, not because he has something urgent going on. We took a trip earlier in the year with my family and he took time off then and is going on a trip later in the year and is taking time off for that. So its completely his priorities that is driving this decision re this trip. I know the answer is skip the trip completely if he doesn’t even care to take off work to go. But while I don’t particularly like a lot of the things my inlaws do, I do feel kind of bad for them if we don’t go and I do want my kids to have a relationship with them and to have this experience. I know it shouldn’t be on me to care if he doesn’t but here we are.
Anne-on
In that case I’d change it to a 4-day weekend. They get kid time but it’s not as crazy intense as a full week with them. I’d ALSO book a sitter for a few days when you get back to allow yourself time off to decompress. As an introvert this would be a hard trip for me and while I agree that grandparent relationships are important as it’s his family he should be the one making these happen, not you.
Cat
Seeing your follow-up, I think this is a great compromise. He only “loses” two billable days, and you don’t have to be “on” all week by yourself.
Allie
This – you should make time for the grandparents but less time given the change of plans. Also – your husband should do what biglaw moms do and get up suuuper early, work until everyone wakes up, take kid time when the kids are up, work during some TV time of theirs, and then get a bunch of hours in after bedtime. If he doesn’t want to do that all the more reason to cut the trip short.
PolyD
Could you make the trip for a shorter time? Maybe a long weekend instead of a whole week?
It sounds like this trip is going to be a whole lot of babysitting for you and the grandparents, and work for your husband, so I would try to make it shorter if I were you. Maybe you can plan on another shorter trip another time, to make up for it.
Anon
What about sending the kids only and calling it grandparent camp? A number of my friends do that, bookended with an actual visit. Could that be an option for you?
Anon
She said the in-laws aren’t able to watch the children.
Vicky Austin
Admittedly, I do not know how biglaw is, but would it be possible for him to just keep his Teams light green (or whatever) whenever possible, sit down to take care of urgent things, and otherwise be available for family time?
Anonymous
That’s not going to help him keep up with billable hours.
Vicky Austin
Oh, duh, I see. Thanks.
Cat
That only helps with visibility (in other words, hiding that you are out), not in meeting your billable hour requirement for the year.
Peloton
Oh, if that’s it, he can work after the kids go to bed, during their nap times, and before they get up. I frequently took “vacations” in big law where I billed ~6 hours a day but was not available for calls or meetings.
He can then be present with his family and you in the breaks.
Anon
+1 Every Big Law mom I know would handle it this way. Dads can do the same.
Allie
This. It’s his parents – do what any big law mom would do.
Escaping soon
Yup. This is what I do and have done for years (and relatedly, why I’m leaving biglaw).
If there’s a an emergency brief due/deal closing then he needs to cancel/reschedule the trip. (If it’s either of those things without the emergency he should have moved the trip weeks ago). If it’s just normal work/billables, he needs to squeeze it in. Leaving you to do full time childcare and in law management is 100% not ok.
(Sorry if this is a duplicate post.)
Marshmallow
Biglaw mom and fully agree. This is just because he needs to pace for his hours, doing non-urgent work? He can do that late nights, nap times, a pocket of a few hours in the morning. It’s not fair for him to say he needs to work a standard workday, force you to take time off and be responsible for kids and spend time with in-laws who make you anxious. He’s being really inconsiderate here, sorry. I would feel differently if he had a deal closing, pretrial deadline, etc. but just for non-urgent work, he can flex that.
startup lawyer
+1 from a biglaw mom. i do take a few hours each day to work on those non-vacation vacation days but try to be generally around. Definitely not 100% unavailable. that’s just not necessary even in biglaw
Anon
100%. If he’s worried about falling behind in hours, and there’s nothing urgent going on, he gets up early, puts in a few billable hours in the mornings, spends the day with everyone, and then he works a few more hours at night. Entirely doable to get to at least 6-7 hours a day like this, without putting it all on you. I’m in Big Law and do this all the time.
Anon
These comments ring so true for me. Moms will usually bend over backwards to do everything for everyone – get up at 4 am to bill hours while also spending all the quality time with the kids and the grandparents on vacation – while Dads often feel just fine about prioritizing their work and me-time while expecting everyone else to pick up their slack. And people wonder why Moms often end up stepping back at work, or leaving paid workforce entirely.
Anon
Yes to this as well! He can make up work at night. Yes he will be tired, but that’s the trade off
anon
Is your husband coming up on the end of his billable year? If so, for context, we are talking about losing out on tens of thousands depending on his year. Postpone or shorten the trip. If not, he should do what I do. Get up early – bill a few hours, then do things in the afternoon with the family (or work an afternoon instead). It is fairly easy to squeak out 20 or so hours while doing stuff with the family. Signed, almost a decade in biglaw and a DH in B4.
Anon
Your husband knew his billable hours when he took the job. He certainly knew them when he booked the “vacation.” He needs to be working double time now and after the vacation so he’s not dumping this all on you during the vacation week. I would be so angry. In fact I am very angry just reading your posts.
Anon
Yeah, I agree with this.
Anonymous
He’s in big law? Then hire a vacation nanny. He has the job of finding one. Any unemployed high schooler can do it.
Anon
I mean that’s just how biglaw is and is something he should have known or thought about when the trip was scheduled. I don’t think it’s okay for him to ditch you for the whole trip with his parents! I would either switch to a four day weekend or if you can’t do that because of flights or what have you, husband needs to divide the day so he’s spending at least half of it with you — for a few of the days he can get up and work from 5:30-10, hang with you all for a few hours, work again from 3-5, do dinner and bedtime, and then work again for an hour or two if needed.
Anonymous
Yeah, working during off hours is a non-issue for moms. Why can’t dads suck it up and do the same?
anon
Former biglaw atty and I think given this set of facts your husband needs to compromise. It is not reasonable to plan a vacation with his parents like this and then prioritize billable hours over family time. He’s just gonna have to catch up later. If it were me I would put the onus 100% on him to either cancel completely or shorten the trip and be the one to deal with fallout from the inlaws. I might be willing to compromise to a few hours a day spent working while kids are asleep but keep the limit strict.
Bonnie Kate
I highly recommend the plan for you to leave in the morning for a coffee and a gym or studio classes. A couple years ago I took time on a family trip with inlaws to go to a yoga class a couple times and it made the entire trip so much better. Sometimes it feels like on family trips we have to do all the things together, so taking some solo time is so needed. Also, you want your kids to have time with their grandparents – leaving for a couple hours every day will give them a chance for one-on-one time.
Anon
This is a husband problem, not an in-law problem. He needs to take time off work. If he absolutely can’t, you reschedule the trip to a week when he can. It’s not fair to stick you with childcare duty and managing in-laws duty at the same time.
Cat
+1000, he needs to reschedule the trip. Not fair to ditch you with his parents for an entire week without relief!!
Mrs. Jones
+1 This is not a vacation if your husband is working the whole time.
Anon
+1
Anon for this
+1. Or he needs to do what the rest of us do which is get up super early and work, work during rest time, and stay up late. That’s why I’m leaving biglaw – the inability to actually take a vacation.
He needs to reschedule if this is a brief filing or a deal closing. If this is just normal work, he needs to work around the vacation schedule.
Anonymous
Oh boy. This sounds really stressful and not at all like a vacation. Based on many years of experience going to my own in-law beach vacations, I would mentally reframe it – it’s not vacation, it’s working from a different location.
What do you need to make that happen?
1) Childcare
2) A good work location
3) Predictability.
How do you get those?
For childcare, you spend money. You need a camp or a babysitter who comes every day, not you. This also allows you to have some time to yourself to run errands, get a pedicure, go do something fun. This is essential.
For a good work location, you know your situation better. I have done this before where I work from a public library or coffee shop. I’ve also literally purchased a cheap folding table from OfficeMax to use as a desk in beach houses that have no tables or desks except the kitchen table.
Predictability – this is key for managing the in-laws. They will be happier if they know how this is working. Maybe that means that every day at 3, you knock off work and join them down at the beach for a few hours before having dinner together. Or maybe it means you spend the mornings with them on the beach before working in the afternoons. I also find that I handle these vacations much better when I am in charge of dinner, but that’s just my Type A-personality coming through. You know your family dynamics best.
Do you think any of that would help?
Josie P
This happened to me last week while we were already on vacation – my DH had to work our second week away. Luckily it was with my family and not his so less stressful! I would try to push back the week if at all possible! Also talk to your DH – this turns it from a ‘family vaca’ into a ‘I have to be on the whole time watching the kids and interacting with your parents and this is not fun for me’ trip!
Cb
Aack, that sounds terrible! I’m going to trust you when you say you can’t cancel.
How much of the day can you spend out of the house? Can you leave one kid for special grandparent time one day and then swap? Are your in laws more or less annoying out of the house and in?
I spent 10 days with my easy going parents and 4 year old and it was still intense, I felt self conscious of kid shenanigans. And it cemented my commitment not to schlep to Canada to visit my super intense in laws until my son is 10. Husband can go solo.
Anonymous
Cancel. If he can nope out of parenting for a week because of work you can and should nope out of this trip. “Since Steve has to work all week and won’t take the vacation he planned, we are rescheduling.” Trash behavior from him.
Anon
Eh, it’s not though. It’s the reality of biglaw, sadly. Unless he’s senior enough to be moving in shortly, it’s an all on, all the time kind of job.
Anon
If this is the reality of big law, then he should only plan vacations that his wife will enjoy solo. Instead, he wants her to watch the kids and entertain his parents. Rude and selfish.
Anon
100%
Anon
+1. If this is the reality of the Big Law, he shouldn’t stick his wife with a trip to his in-laws and childcare responsibilities. Maybe he can pay to fly his parents to visit? Or have the kids + wife go to parents, but pay for childcare for the kids so wife can work (and not be expected to entertain in-laws). The trip as planned is extremely unfair to the wife.
Anonymous
Yeah, this is legitimately terrible behavior on his part. Cancel the trip and lay the blame where it belongs.
Anon
Agree
Anon
Agree. I try not to pile on, but your husband is being really inconsiderate.
Anonymous
Can you find a half-day or full-day local camp for the kids? Some of the topic-focused camps or the Y will take a 4-year-old who is entering pre-K or K.
If that’s not possible, you and husband should trade off working half-days. Or just go for the weekend.
Anon
Try to find a day camp for the kids.
Anonymous
Why does he even want to go on this trip if he is going to spend it avoiding his parents by pretending that he has to work?
Anon
Your husband has really let you down here. This is his family trip and he needs to make sacrifices about his work and not just dump all childcare and all in-law time on you. If he’s adamant that he must work all day every single day, I’d refuse to go on the trip.
Anonymous
And explain to him why he is the worst. It’s not just that he needs to work. It’s that the only plan he made was dumping it all on you. He’s a big boy. He can do things like research a drop off day camp. He can try and find sitters for the week. He can proactively deal with his parents about times on and off. He can say “I am so sorry about this, here’s my mitigation plan.” He’s a fancy pants lawyer making plans to mitigate risk is his literal job. He knows how he just feels entitled not to when it comes to you and your children.
Anon
I would hire a babysitter for part of the day so you both can work and then make sure you’re tag teaming the off hours.
I view family as a team sport, though I know many here view my family as my thing to figure out and his family as his thing to figure out, but that is not at all how o approach it. There’s benefit for he whole family (grandparent/grandkid bonding), so the whole family can work to make it work.
I’m assuming the other vacations this year are family vacations as well – so he’s losing billable hours then so the two of you and your kids get to vacation together as a family.
Anon
+1 to family being a team sport
Anonymous
And he’s not being a team player.
Anon
My comment was more about the in laws actually – it seems when I was growing up things mattered less about whose side of he family it was. My dad’s parents were very difficult but my mom did just as much with them (helping out, entertaining, caring for) as she did for her own parents. Much like the OPs family – my dad had a job where he worked a lot and the job was inflexible while my mom was a teacher so had much more time off . So, my mom did a lot more childcare and extended family duties for both sides of the family (elder care, buying gifts, coordinating/scheduling/prep work for family parties of both sides) and my dad contributed in other ways.
If your spouse is a big law lawyer, the limited availability is the price of admission. If you want your kid to see their grandparents then having to do childcare/deal with I laws when you have a flexible schedule is probably part of the deal. It’s not “fair” but if contributes in his own way, then I don’t think it’d concerning.
Anon
So wait, what exactly is the husband contributing in your scenario?
Anon
And also, given the discussion above, Big Law moms can figure this out. So in your scenario this is only the price of admission for men in big law?
Anon
Presumably the OP’s part time job does not bring in enough to support a family. I know a ton of families where both couples work but one has more flexibility but makes less and thus covers down for a spouse who works more for more money. I know so many big law + teacher families.
Anonymous
Yes congrats on explaining the patriarchy to us. Some of us expect better than that?
Anonymous
The difference is that women are allowed by men and society in general to have biglaw jobs only if they can also do all the family stuff, so they are forced to figure it out. Men, on the other hand, feel entitled go into biglaw or medicine or whatever and then dump everything on their wives, even if their wives are also in big jobs.
Anon
I think a lot of people are reacting to the fact that Big Law moms make it work, but Big Law dads check out of family stuff using work as an excuse. I don’t think it’s a “price of admission” for Big Law attorneys, as evidenced by all the moms on the thread saying they would be bill hours and still be available to their families.
I don’t think this statement (“If you want your kid to see their grandparents then having to do childcare/deal with I laws when you have a flexible schedule is probably part of the deal.”) is accurate. There are lots of ways to facilitate a relationship between grandparents and kids that don’t involve mom having to take a week off work and doing everything by herself (for example, paying for the grandparents to come visit them at home where they presumably have regular childcare). It seems like it’s DH that wants to go their beach house, and if he can’t take time off work, then he doesn’t get to go. Tough luck.
Anon
Hahahahaha no. Husband can do what Big Law moms do and bill hours outside of the main family time on vacation
Anon
Oof, yeah. I hate to pile on but your husband is being a turd here. I’m going on a trip with my in-laws and young kids in a few weeks, and am not particularly looking forward to it, and that’s with a DH who is taking vacation that week, is going to be doing at least 50% of the childcare and close to 100% of the in-law managing, and will probably give me some solo time to myself each day. I literally cannot fathom going on a trip with my in-laws if DH were going to make himself unavailable with work all day. I would just straight up refuse to go. He can find paid childcare for the kids if he really wants to go.
Anon
I get that many people have challenging in laws but they’re still family. I personally can’t imagine having this attitude.
Anon
Some people have standards. Having to put up with anything and everything just because “they’re family” is toxic.
Anon
Not specific to this scenario but so many people on this board are so unwilling to do things for their spouse’s family. Actually toxic situations are one thing but people complain about the most innocuous in law things that I’d consider price of admission.
Anon
I’m the Anon at 11:39. I didn’t say the in-laws are toxic, and it doesn’t sound like they’ve done anything wrong in this scenario. But DH’s behavior is so abhorrent that personally this is not something I would let him get away with. It’s unfortunate that refusing to let DH behave this way may punish innocent third parties (the in-laws and also the kids), but I just can’t imagine letting my husband get away with this bullsh!t. And honestly, I suspect if she told DH “we’re canceling the trip or you’re going to find a way to do some childcare” he would find a way to do some childcare, so hopefully the in-laws and kids will get their trip.
Anon
Yes, they’re family and I don’t interfere with DH seeing them with or without our kids, but I don’t think it’s my responsibility to bend over backwards to facilitate spending time with them when he can’t be bothered to use time off work. If OP’s husband cares about visiting his parents at their beach house, he can take the time off work (or flex his work hours, as lots of Big Law moms suggested), or arrange other childcare so he and his wife can both work. But asking his wife – who has a job of her own – to take a week off work so she can care of the kids and be responsible for entertaining his parents all week when he’s unwilling to take any time is *completely* unreasonable.
anon
I would ask your husband to fit his billable hours into certain time frames, including early in the morning and late at night. That’s how people in Big Law handle “working” vacations. If you’re going to the beach, he should be available for some quality family time in the water, and if you’re at his parents’ house, he needs to spend some time running interference with the in-laws.
I second the idea of a vacation nanny. If your in-laws know a high schooler who can come help a few hours a day, that would be great.
DH, Kiddo, and I go to the beach every year with my MIL, who mostly does not help with childcare and frankly does not pull her weight on cooking and cleaning up. DH does plenty, but these types of vacations can be a lot of work. I’ve developed a few strategies for making these trips more relaxing.
– Bring or buy new (to them) toys, games, and books. Rotate in toys they haven’t played with in a while. Grab a stack of library books. Buy a new board game.
– Bring an activity for your kids to do with your in-laws. For us, it’s puzzles, but choose a common interest. Your kids are at great ages for interacting with grandparents, so they may be more willing to spend time with the kids than in the past.
– Lean into screen time. If it rains, take the kids out to a movie.
– Designate a “quiet time” or “alone time” for everybody in the afternoons. It gives everyone time to rest, gives your husband time to work, and keeps you out of the sun during the hottest part of the day.
– Make other parts of the trip easier. Simplify meals. Use paper plates.
– Minimize the time you personally spend with your in-laws. Be busy with the kids whenever they’re not busy with the kids.
anon
Im not defending the dumping childcare on you part, but I will say that not all biglaw is the same, and it depends on seniority. If there’s a closing, where people are chasing documents or having calls to work out last minute issues, it’s not tenable to say that you’re working different hours and are not available from 9-12 or whatever. It’s your job to do the things that are near-emergencies to get a deal done. Or if you’re leading a training for summers, you can’t just bow out at 11am because of that. And i will echo that biglaw is a bargain, but you have to take the hours when they are there. Sometimes you have enough “backlog” work to work off hours–other times you need to be available.
For 4th years an up, bonuses last year (which will not be nearly as large this year) were tens of thousands of dollars (mine was $95K last year as a 4th year, no Covid-bonuses because I lateraled), and at some firms, you either hit hours and get the bonus or you get zero. That is to say, some firms pro rate if you are below target and others do not.
So while forcing your wife to do childcare at the in-laws sounds awful, I can sort of see why H is rationalizing this–but I would still change this to a long weekend.
At my firm, we recently learned that on average, the entire firm is below pace this year. He should inquire re that too.
Anon
OP said husband just doesn’t want to get behind on hours. This isn’t a situation where there’s a big trial or closing or other important deadline.
Anon
Totally – and that is why lots of biglaw families go on vacations to resorts with childcare! If you’re visiting family and need coverage, you need to plan for that in advance or go for just like two days where you can really check out.
Anon
I realize I’m piling on here, but my ex husband used to do this. One time I had a really big deadline (an actuarial exam + work deadline) and his brother and sister in law proposed coming to stay with us the week before my deadline. I said no, ask them to come two weeks later. My husband just replied that they’d already booked their travel. I was like, OK, but I’m going to be busy and not spending any time with you, possibly I can meet you guys for dinner a couple of times. Then I was the bad guy because he now had to do all the stuff he usually relied on me to do, and probably didn’t realize I had been doing all along, like getting the guest bedroom together, planning meals and activities, etc.
But that’s what you need to do, OP. Lay it out. Here’s what I’m willing to do. Period. That may be a couple of days at the beach house. But if he can’t or WON’T (and I think it’s really a won’t) step up and be an equal partner, then you make it clear exactly what you’re willing to do or not to do. And mean it when you say it.
Amy
I haven’t seen anyone ask yet – if your in-laws can take the kids for “a bit,” and you work part-time, does “a bit” cover enough hours that you won’t have to take any time off work? I get that spending your nonworking hours at a beach house with your in laws is more challenging than in your own home, but it seems like you should at least also be able to work?
Also, why does every visit with them give you a lot of anxiety? Is there something there you could try to address?
When we visit my MIL, we give each other our space. If she’s in the kitchen, I’m in the living room, and vice versa. The kids kind of bounce between us.
Are your in-laws capable enough that you can tell them, “I’m going to go lay down for a couple hours/go to the store for a couple hours, do you mind watching the kids?” and they’ll do it? Or does “a bit” mean, they’re technically adults but aren’t able to watch the children without you present?
Anon
Not OP but I interpreted “a bit” to mean they won’t ignore the kids completely, but won’t take them for extended chunks of time. E.g., they might read to a kid for 20 minutes but then they’re going to wander off and do their own thing. Or they’re playing with the kids but not alone, and they’re asking mom questions about a kid stuff. I(t It’s pretty hard to get substantive work done in that scenario where you’re always on cal.
Celia
I agree with the theme here – if there is nothing urgent then it should not all be on you. I’ve been in BigLaw for ten years, five with kids, and working vacations are not all on my spouse – it is absolutely doable to bill six hours or so a day by getting up early / going to bed late / nap times. If there’s no emergency coming up, was he just planning on working all day but getting to chill out during meal times and when the kids go to bed? That’s not fair to you or to your kids or to his parents. If he does need 8 hours a day then maybe y’all can work out something where he gets to work all through lunch and then is present and helping all afternoon and through bedtime before wrapping up his day in the evening. I’ve had to do that many times and it works. BigLaw is a grind but if you’re going to sacrifice family time and avoid childcare even when there is no emergency…yikes. Also I sympathize not wanting to fall behind on hours but the end of the billable year is still several months away. If he bills just a half week while on this trip, it should take only a week or two of evening work to catch back up, or a few hours here and there over the course of the remaining 4 months or so he has to make his target! This would be different if it was the last month of the year with no leeway, but, well, it’s not.
Gift ideas
Any gift ideas for my husband? He loves gardening, history, and food, looking for a physical gift not an experience. We live in the DC area.
Anonymous
Hori hori if he doesn’t already have one. The book The Splendid and the Vile. Gourmet cheese crate.
Girlonawireless
Blood in the Water by Heather Thompson. A Pulitzer Prize winning book about the Attica uprising. Informative, shocking, sad, and well written.
Anonymous
Copy of “In Training” if you have a normal budget, print of a bonsai if you have a big budget, and a trip to the Arboretum.
http://bonsaibook.net/store
Senior Attorney
I got my husband the New York Times birthday book for a milestone birthday and it was a big hit. https://www.uncommongoods.com/product/new-york-times-custom-birthday-book?gclid=Cj0KCQjwlK-WBhDjARIsAO2sErSTLu5bcr40PtSjkAkih_ccEpvOKs9Yk51aVi_CGVW-M6Oe7jj_cOEaAuILEALw_wcB
Anon
Bringing Nature Home by Douglas Tallamy and a gift certificate to BloomBox or a local nursery
DallasAnon
It’s not exciting but I’m about 3/4 of the way through Cuba: An American History and it’s great.
Anon
My daughter is turning 8 and asked for a gold necklace that she can wear 24/7 without removing for showers and swimming. I have one like that that I’ve worn for 10+ years but I bought it in Japan while on a trip there so I can’t go to the source (she wants one like mine). Can anyone recommend a store where I can get a gold chain that will be strong enough to withstand everyday wear? I would strongly prefer ethically sourced gold. Would prefer to stay under $300.
I know it’s a bit ridiculous but it’s the only thing she asked for and she’s going through a tough time with some stuff so I want to do this for her.
cookie monster
Mejuri has some pretty chains in that price range.
Anon
Based on how my nap earrings have held up (I haven’t taken them out since I got them), I’d suggest Maison Miru. Most of their necklaces look to be $90-$130ish.
Anonymous
I completely get where you are coming from- I have 3 young girls and in some cases am willing to bend over backward to accommodate their silly requests. That said…I also have an almost 9 year old daughter which leads me to ask…does she mean actual gold? Or just a gold necklace? If this were my kid’s ask, I’d get a gold necklace from target (maybe 3!) and let her wear them in the pool and shower and replace as needed. The tears from a gold necklace turning >> the tears from losing a $300 24k gold necklace you got at age 8.
Cb
Oh that’s a lovely present!
Anonymous
What a great idea! I remember getting a heart locket at that age that I adored. Can you perhaps teach her the importance of removing? Will serve her better over the course of her life.
Anon
If she doesn’t mind silver toned jewelry, you could get a simple Tiffany sterling silver necklace. Plus the little blue box is always a fun gift to receive.
Anonymous
Why not give her yours? The jewelry I prize the most is that which used to be others. Bonus: you know that the clasp is secure.
Eager Beaver
I would think about getting something gold plated for durability. I have necklace similar to this that I’ve had for almost 10 years and it has held up really well. I don’t wear it all the time, but I haven’t babied it at all: https://www.potterybarnkids.com/products/tiny-tags-circle-charm-necklace/?pkey=cbaby-keepsakes.
Eager Beaver
Sorry! I meant Gold Filled as opposed to Gold Plated.
Anon
Do you have a local jeweler? I would go there and check out different weights of chain. It’s going to be about the way the links are constructed and the thickness of the gold that forms the links. Beyond that, 14k is 14k. At least by going in person you can find something as similar to yours as possible.
And I don’t think it’s a ridiculous request on your daughter’s part! It seems very practical to me.
When my daughter graduated middle school I bought her a necklace in white gold with teeny tiny bezel set diamonds here and there. She’s going into her senior year of college and still wears it every day.
Seventh Sister
A local jeweler is a great idea. With mine, I can come in with an idea for a piece and they can figure out how to do it at a fair price. Also they can probably suggest a sturdy clasp so she can wear it all the time if she wants to wear it all the time. I feel like the clasp technology has gotten a lot better over the years FWIW.
REAH
What about something from an estate sale? You can search for sales or for specific items using estatesales.net . Ethical, affordable, and some classic gold coin pendant options.
Amy
Love this idea. Secondhand is always a great option that I feel like a lot of people don’t think of. A local pawn shop is another possibility.
DeepSouth
I have a couple of Monica Vinader pieces that I love and wear consistently. Look at the Nordstrom sale and Nordstrom rack — they usually have some options on sale. Gorjana is a brand my teen loves. It has some fine gold, but she’s been wearing an initial necklace for a year and it still looks great. She seldom takes it off.
Anon
Some of my friends love GLDN for higher quality (real gold) at lower prices. I’ve never ordered from them so can’t comment but several friends are fans.
I also recommend Quince. My answer is always Quince :)
Ribena
People who wanted to hear more explanation about WTF British politics is doing – I highly recommend the newest Slate Money. The relevant segment is from about 20 minutes in.
Anokha
Any recommendations for places to buy super narrow nightstands? (< 15" width). Just moved, urgently need nightstands, and am tired of clicking link by link only to find the nightstands are too big! Wayfair lets you sort by width — any other sites that have that feature?
Cat
Ikea lists the dimensions on the main page (before you click into a specific product). KNARREVIK is 14.5×11…
Cat
Ikea lists the dimensions on the main page (before you click into a specific product). KNARREVIK is 14.5×11…
Anokha
Thank you! We are looking for drawers, but checking out Ikea…
Anonymous
When you look at IKEA, don’t only look for things called nightstands. Narrow chest of drawers can be found in the office and bathroom sections as well.
Anon
I would google for skinny nightstand but also I think Ike’s has one or two that fit the bill.
Anokha
So funny. Googling for narrow nightstands didn’t really work, but skinny did!
Anonymous
Wayfair let’s you search by dimensions and includes for everything
DeepSouth
Joss and Main is the higher end version of Wayfair. I like my things from there far more, and I find the search features there even easier to use.
Anokha
This is good to know!
anon
I got mine at Pottery Barn teen.
Anokha
I got mine at Pottery Barn teen.
Anon
I believe Walmart has that filter
Amy
I recommend looking for “side tables” or “end tables” rather than “night stands” for the dimensions you’re looking for. E.g., https://www.wayfair.com/Three-Posts%E2%84%A2–Leaman-Block-2-Drawer-End-Table-with-Storage-X113936435-L442-K~W002825324.html?refid=GX561915042146-W002825324&device=c&ptid=902837625041&network=g&targetid=aud-976909299028:pla-902837625041&channel=GooglePLA&ireid=204833233&fdid=1817&gclid=Cj0KCQjwlK-WBhDjARIsAO2sErSwNbtCuFplEy0NDT4vCPQ3ZBIUQQJHXZLzEAk6nEcPQPLH6fit-U0aAsAqEALw_wcB
Anokha
Ummmm, this is a genius tip (side tables / end tables). I feel abashed that I didn’t think of it. Thank you!
Anon
I have nap earrings that I wear in my second hole and they’re so comfortable and don’t bother my sensitive ears. It’s also so easy to always have earrings in and never have to think about it! I’d like to look for a pair of smaller hoops for my first hole with the same idea: comfortable to wear 24/7 (no poking), good for sensitive ears, going to last (not fall out, can be worn to the gym/in the shower/to sleep).
I love fun earrings so would want hoops that I can take in and out easily (not the case for nap earring studs!), but love the idea of being able to “set it and forget it” with these hoops like 80% of the time
Anon8
Quince has gold hoops that I use for almost the same thing! I wear them in my cartilage 24-7 and they’re very comfortable and secure, but they have a regular closure so I think they’d be simple to change out. I’ve had them since April and am very satisfied with them, especially for the price point (my other 24-7 earrings are $200+). I’ll link below
OP
I love Quince so much, don’t know why I didn’t think of them! Thank you
Anon8
Link to Quince hoops as promised (although I think both comments are in mod?): https://www.onequince.com/women/jewelry/14k-gold-mini-hoop-single?color=yellow-gold&tracker=collection_fine+jewelry__desktop__4_1&gender=women
Anon
Gorjana Parker Huggies. I leave them in all the time, gym, sleep, swimming.
Anon
I like “huggie” hoops for this. When my kids were little I had a pair of them that I rarely took off. I had a couple of pearl dangles I could add to them when I wanted to be fancy. :)
Anon
https://www.onequince.com/women/jewelry/gold-hoops-14k?color=yellow-gold&tracker=collection_fine+jewelry__desktop__4_0&gender=women
mine were like this. My most worn pearl additions were drop shaped pearls on gold wire fashioned into a loop.
Seventh Sister
I wore hoops like this for most of the pandemic – I have really prominent earlobes and hate the way that my ears look without earrings. They were around $30, so not cheap but I wouldn’t be super upset if I lost one.
https://nymag.com/strategist/article/art-and-molly-gold-hoop-earrings.html
Anon
I’m someone who likes nice things and feeling fancy but also lovessss a bargain. Just for fun: what do you splurge on and what do you save on?
Anon
Keep in mind that my yearly salary is probably what some people here make in their bonus so my idea of “splurge” is different.
I will pay full price for shoes because I have problem feet and good shoes are worth it for me. Also candles. Bougie stupidly expensive candles in this house only please.
OP
You and me both! I have a few college friends who make more in their bonus than I make in a year :)
I splurge on things like kerrygold butter and a Pret coffee membership and save on working out at home and shopping at old navy.
I was recently on a girls trip wearing an old navy top and got compliments on it. When I said I bought it at old navy I might as well have said I got it from Mars it was such a foreign concept to my friends to shop there! Later on the girls trip we went shopping at places where the cheapest items were like $100 and they were surprised I didn’t buy anything. Like one part of a bikini was $120!! I own 3 bikinis and together they didn’t cost $120!
Anon
I get 90% of my clothes at Old Navy and people are always surprised!
Anon
The attitudes people have about old navy kill me. The quality is the same as loft but it costs less! The stuff is cute! People act like I have 3 heads when I talk about how much I have from there.
Anon
I actually prefer Old Navy leggings to Athleta!
PolyD
Co- sign on Old Navy active wear vs. Athleta. Athleta leggings do not work for me at all. I also decided to splurge on one of their dresses, I can’t remember the name but it was midi length with a cut out back, and the skirt of thing appeared to be made of the fabric one usually finds lining clothing! For $120!! It went right back.
Yep, I’ll stick to Loft and Old Navy/Banana Factory dresses, especially casual dresses.
Eager Beaver
I drive a car I consider a splurge (most here probably would not) and I love a really fancy meal. Pre-covid, I would be comfortable spending $700+ on a meal for two once or twice a year. I’ll be wearing Ann Taylor or J. Crew Factory to that meal, but I really love the experience.
BeenThatGuy
That’s the exact how I’d describe myself. I splurge on skin care, designer bags (1 per year-ish), vacations and cars. I refuse so spend significant money on clothes and shoes (mainly because my weight fluxuates significantly). I prefer to “hunt” for deals at places like Nordstrom Rack and Home Goods for domestic things.
Anonymous
Splurge on hand soap ($40 brand), bras, makeup foundation, towels and sheets.
Save on generic canned veggies, do my own manicures and only use drug store makeup brushes.
Anonymous
I try to save on fun clothes/shoes and spend on staples. I buy a lot of clothes second hand or a places like TJ Maxx, Old Navy. I completely skip places like LOFT because it’s 2-3x the price of ON for the same quality. I occasionally splurge on something nice, but wait for a sale. But I wear Red Wing boots and my purse is Cuyana (which not a splurge for everyone but a splurge for me!).
My furniture is either family heirloom antique or IKEA. My plates are China, but bought from Goodwill. My mugs are all hand thrown so are expensive for mugs.
Anon8
Love this question!
Splurge on: the full Olaplex line and hair cuts and color from a $$$ hairdresser I adore. An awesome groomer for my standard poodle (apparently I carry the hair-care theme to my dog lol). Travel– the largest line item in my budget. Really great coffee beans from a local roaster.
Save on: Nails– only get a manicure for a special occasion. Makeup and skincare I just re-buy my mix of mostly drug store holy grail products. DIY nearly all home improvement projects. Try to cook mostly at home. Try to buy clothes secondhand. One mid-range handbag at a time. Workout mostly at home.
Anon
I am so glad to read someone else splurges on haircare and Olaplex. Me too! I pay way too much for my stylist but I love him and he’s amazing!
Anon
Love this question!
I save on clothes (buy on major sale, buy off eBay/thredup/poshmark, and maintain a small quality wardrobe I wear for years) and makeup (stick to drugstore brands). I don’t spend much on skincare, massages, or jewelry—just buy costume or cheap cute vintage pieces on Etsy. I do my own nails but will get pedicures during the summer. I don’t drink much so I save a lot there, too.
I save on my condo. It’s a cute but small 1BR. I live in a pleasant but sleepy part of my major city. Could definitely spend more to live in a more central location, have private outdoor space, or live closer than an 11 min walk to a train stop, but my mortgage is only 1300 including HOAs so it’s worth it to me for now.
I spend on classes and supplies for my hobbies like art and tennis, travel (usually 1-2 int’l trips per year plus many domestic), and fancy coffee drinks whenever I want them, usually a couple times a week as part of a social activity like a meetup or friend catch-up. They make me happy and I can’t replicate them at home!
Depending on how you look at things, I either spend a lot or save a lot on my hair. I get balayage highlights 1x/year plus quarterly glosses to maintain the color. The initial output is several hundred dollars, but then I barely spend anything for the rest of the year. Compared to some friends that’s a lot, but compared to others who hit the salon every 6 weeks, it’s nothing. I guess it’s all relative!
Anonymous
I splurge on stationary and fountain pens, and nice meals.
I save on clothes, jewelry, and other accessories.
Anon
Splurges: original art, custom jewelry, sustainably made clothing, skin care, Botox, pet care
Skimp: most everything else? I take camper van vacations where I sleep on an air mattress or stay in very rustic lodgings, buy the store brand food option, used books, my car has 100k+ miles on it, DIY manicures, my house could use some upgrades but meh.
Anon
Honestly I splurge on everything I buy so I try to buy as few things as possible. IE I only have two handbags — a small designer bag ($1500, bought 4 years ago) and a cuyana tote (6 years ago). My furniture is either vintage or Room & Board. My makeup is from Sephora but I only replace something when I run out — I have 1 of each thing I use. I get gel manicures every 3 weeks. My dishes are real porcelain, plain white, and are 15+ years old. I go out to dinner 2-3 times a month to pricier places and buy nice groceries and eat mostly vegetarian at home. I buy expensive beans and make coffee at home. I buy books in hardcover whenever possible (lots come out directly to paperback now!)
The only thing I can think of that I “save” on is Target sheets, because my dog sleeps in the bed with me and they get gross or ripped and need replacing regularly.
I guess I’m bougie AF!
Anon8
Sounds aspirational to me! My goal in life is to be a minimalist who only has really nice things I absolutely adore. I’m slowly getting there but the siren song of online shopping and starbucks still calls to me.
Anon @ 11:18
Yes this was my intent and I honestly feel like I’m living the fantasy of food-stamps-childhood-me.
Anon
I know you splurge on makeup at Sephora but be mindful of expiration dates. I’m prone to eye infections (thanks contacts and law school!) and switch mascara every 3-6 months.
Anon
Tip: I buy travel size mascara and eyeliner at Sephora for this reason! Even though I wear it almost every day, I never go through a full size tube in less than a year. The travel sizes last me about 5 months so it’s the perfect timeline and I’m not wasting anything
Anon
This is the life I aspire to!
Anonymous
I save on clothing, purses and shoes, but buy good skincare and makeup. We splurge on my jewelry and travel. We never upsized our house and we drive our cars for 10+ years.
Anonymous
My car is 20 years old and looks it (but runs great) so I obviously save on that, but I pay for a spot in a parking lot because I hate driving around for 30 minutes looking for parking every time I move my car.
I splurge on a hand and stone membership for a monthly massage because I carry all of my stress in my back.
The most I’ve ever spent on a purse was $40. I have one purse at a time and carry it daily for 4-5 years until it looks worn then I replace it. They’re all from Target
NYNY
As I get older, I realize I buy fewer bargains than I used to. In my 20’s, most of my clothes came from discount places like Century 21 or Daffy’s (RIP), and I was willing to hunt sale racks. Now with more money and less time, my savings come from owning fewer things. So I’ll spend on the right item and keep it forever.
That being said, my splurge is the bougiest deodorant I have found. My skin is really sensitive, and reacts to a lot of ingredients in both traditional and natural deodorants, but I started using Corpus last year, and I looooooove it. It feels a little ridiculous spending that much on my armpits, but it makes me happy every day, doesn’t cause a rash, and doesn’t stain my clothes. And the scents are so good that I have a few different ones. (It feels extra-decadent to admit to a deodorant wardrobe!)
Marshmallow
Save: our home/mortgage. We bought way, way under our “means” and that has freed up a ton of cash flow for splurges in other areas. I know this is the opposite of how a lot of people do it, but I’d rather have less space and a less fancy address and be able to afford a lot of entertainment, travel, etc. Also save on everyday skincare; I have a BeautyPie membership and find their products are just as good as the stuff I used to spend 3x that price on.
Splurge: live entertainment and experiences. We go to a lot of concerts, plays, and events, and have memberships to our local children’s museum and zoo. Kiddo attends (overpriced) weekly swim and music lessons. Clothes and shoes: I have a small wardrobe but when I do buy something, I want quality. Convenience food: we subscribed to a local farm-to-table delivery service just before the pandemic and have kept it up for years because the combination of convenience and health just can’t be beat. And we have a biweekly house cleaner.
Anon
I love Beauty Pie!
Senior Attorney
Splurge: Cars, trips (biz class 4evah), house stuff (we did a lot of improvements during the initial COVID lockdown), charitable contributions, live entertainment.
Save: most personal care items including makeup, eating out (don’t do a ton of it except on vacation), clothes (High Street rather than designer labels).
Anon
Do you have any tips for getting affordable business class tickets? We got a steal on them recently and it was incredibly having the layflat seats for a red-eye flight to Europe and actually being able to sleep on the plane and not losing the whole first day to jetlag (coming home on a daytime flight, I find them a lot less necessary and am ok with Economy Plus). But usually business is like 6-10 times the cost of economy and I can’t justify that.
Senior Attorney
No tips, alas. As I said, it’s a splurge.
anon
Splurge on:
Makeup. I don’t buy many products (have a one-in, one-out policy), but I buy high-end makeup.
Food. Our family of 3 spends about $1100/month on groceries. My husband is an amazing cook, and cooking is his creative outlet/ hobby.
Slippers. I adore my fuzzy slippers. I’ve worn through a pair of Uggs and am now on LL Bean.
Save on:
Coffee. I make one cup at home and get one free cup at work.
Bath products, skin care, toiletries. All drug store brands.
Hair. I let my natural color grow out, so now I just get a good cut every 8 weeks.
Nails. I haven’t been back to the nail salon since Covid. Not being cautious, just cheap.
Anon
Splurge: hair (cut/color every month, blowouts), vacations (4 weeks of travel, 5 weekend trips, lots of one day excursions/concerts, etc.), gel pedicures, newest phone but only if I can afford to have it paid off when I get it, huge tipper if I do go out or order in, generous with gifts, chiro visits weekly
Save: clothes, cheap gym ($20 per month and go 4-5 day per week), clothes (capsule + nothing over $150, no shopping in person unless emergency), eating in, don’t drink alcohol so no uber/taxi or paying for alcohol in or out, garden for vegetables during the summer, not really into nice jewelry, do my own nails, hot yoga for free (teacher is friend), car is 2014 and paid off
Work for myself as an attorney, make $200K per year, DINK SO makes $50K and owns the house but I pay for the rest plus student loans and retirement.
Anon
Generally, we save on “stuff” and splurge on experiences and things that make our life easier.
More specifically, we save in these ways: we drive really old cars (one car is 23 years old!), I rarely buy clothes and when I do it’s from Old Navy/LOFT/J Crew Factory, kid clothes are from Old Navy and Target, we don’t buy kid a ton of toys, we have a pretty nice house but we haven’t put any real money into it in a long time and we have no interested in upgrading to a fancier house.
We splurge bigtime on travel (we’re going to spend 30% of our HHI on travel this year, which is kind of insane but we can afford it), high quality daycare for kid, cleaning service, a fair amount of Doordash, theater tickets, kid activities and memberships to children’s museums, fancy meals (pre-Covid).
Anon
Jewelry. All of my jewelry is real. My jeans are $25 and my tops are from ebay but my jewels are top tier.
Anon
Splurge on groceries- For example, I always get organic pasture-raised eggs, 18-year-aged balsamic vinegar, artisan sourdough bread, imported grass-fed butter, fresh pasta, fancy coffee, fresh herbs, etc. Likewise, kitchen appliances I actually use (vitamix).
Splurge on shoes, coats, and mattresses- life is too damn short to be physically uncomfortable.
Splurge on cosmetic procedures- botox, lasers, occasional filler.
Save on: Clothes (I buy secondhand), makeup (drugstore brands), skincare (drugstore brands), cable, jewelry (I just wear some simple gold pieces I’ve had forever), nails, furniture…. basically everything else.
Anon
I’m about to move (for the 6th time in 6 years, ugh) but will be living alone in my own apartment and in a place I hope to stay for several years (most of my moves have been driven by external factors: moving cities, landlord sold the apartment, roommate wanted to end the lease).
Due to a difficult rental market, I have to move in with my parents for 2 months between apartments so since I’m moving twice I’d really really like to pare down what I own. I’d love to hear peoples experiences who dramatically pared down their wardrobe. Am also curious on how many work clothes vs weekend clothes you own.
I have a few fun statement pieces (bright floral pants! Sequin dress!) because life is too short to wear boring clothes, but I’d like to downsize my day to day wardrobe.
Lily
I mean, how much space are you really going to save by getting rid of clothes? The only things I think would actually save a lot of space (unless you truly have a huge wardrobe) are boots and coats, maybe formal dresses. If you’re just looking to go from like 10 pairs of pants to 5, I think it would be wasteful to get rid of the other 5 pairs if you actually wear them. Same with blouses, t-shirts, skirts. Of course, if there are things you actually don’t wear or don’t fit, then purge.
This just seems like an overreaction. Get a storage unit for 2 months if you truly have to.
Anonymous
I mean, you may be confused about what some of us own. I don’t have 10 pairs of pants. I have 12 pairs of shorts, 25 pairs of workout pants/leggings, at least 40 pairs of work pants, 11 pairs of jeans, etc. There is a lot of room to be made from paring down some wardrobes and a move can put that into perspective.
Anon
That is entirely too much clothing.
OP
Lol I have 6 pairs of jeans but feel like I only wear 3 and am wondering if 3 pairs is too few. 7 pairs of work pants (4 black, 3 plaid) and I’m like hm I only go in 4 days a week do I need all of them?
Anonymous
I keep a week’s worth of casual outfits for each season in case of vacation. I am a sweaty person who has to wash clothes every time they are worn so for me that’s 7-8 pairs of jeans.
Amy
I recommend the “turn the hanger around trick.” But instead of turning them all around then turning them back when you DO wear something, keep them all normal and then turn them AROUND once you wear them. This basically creates a visual “to wear” list of all your clothes that are hanging “normally.” If you get down to the last few items and find you’d far rather wear something you’ve already worn than reach for any of the unworn items, those are good candidates to donate.
Vicky Austin
You’re already wearing 3 pairs of jeans no problem, right? So no, not too few.
OP
I just feel overwhelmed with how much I have and I frankly have a lot I don’t wear but hesitate to get rid of because it feels like wasting money to donate something I spent money on but hardly wear.
Anonymous
I posted below but I also had the issue of not wanting to get rid of things I had bought and barely used but eventually realized how much time and energy and space I was wasting managing “things” I don’t need or don’t use and realized that the extra items are actually continuing to cost me and I am better off dumping them.
OP
Thank you! I’m trying to let go of things I don’t wear even though I spent money on them bc it does feeel like too much time/effort/space is spent on these things.
Amy
The money is already wasted if you bought something and never use/wear it. Keeping it in your closet doesn’t bring the money back. Let it go, forgive yourself for not being perfect, realize you’ve probably spent more on an even-more-fleeting single dinner out or night of drinks than many of those clothing items cost, and allow yourself to move on. :)
Anonymous
I live in a place with all the seasons, though more of some than others, and I do lots of different things that require different attire. When I did a purge, it was important to me to really group like with like before tossing things. So I grouped clothes by type and then purpose and weight. I don’t need 10 pairs of heavy wool pants, but I do need 2 or 3. And I need several pairs of linen pants. If I don’t have them, I will keep buying more until I find more that I like, but I have been thrilled to have a small selection of only things I like and that fit. I had to really think through what I genuinely need and the grouping (and then hanging similar items together) has helped a lot. It also helped to be very honest with myself about things I really don’t wear – e.g., pencil skirts – so I did not hang on to things just in case my entire style changes. If that is the case, I will buy new then because it will be driven by a new reality. I am still purging, like hen I realized there was a whole set of tees that I ignored when I went to pick one to actually wear, I went back and just bagged up that pile. I bought a couple more like the ones I do wear.
PolyD
This sounds like a really good system. I need to purge clothing, and maybe I’ll try this approach.
OP
Yes! Having 4 seasons makes it tough. I’m in NJ so 4 seasons and I have a business casual workplace. My cousin is in LA and can wear jeans to work so she does project 333, but with seasons and a work wardrobe that doesn’t fly for me.
Anon8
I regularly purge my wardrobe. My favorite way to do it is to pretend you’re packing for a vacation and want to bring all your favorite outfits. Gather them all up and then get rid of whatever is leftover. Obviously keep any special occasion clothes you might need but otherwise get rid of it all. You can always re-buy something similar if you miss a piece you purged. And also remember there will be other statement pieces. If you haven’t worn the sequin dress in years get rid of it now and if an occasion comes up where you’d wear it, rent a sequin dress from rent the runway or find one on Poshmark. This mentality is what keeps my wardrobe small: easy come, easy go. (I try to buy secondhand to minimize the wastefulness of this philosophy.)
Anon
I have basically two seasons of clothing and a small closet, so I have to swap out clothing twice a year. My rule is that if I didn’t wear something for an entire season, I get rid of it. I do make exceptions for party clothing. And since March 2020
I’ve made exceptions for some workwear, but I’ve significantly pared it down. But yeah, that casual wool pullover I didn’t wear for all of winter 2021/2022, I’m guessing I’m not going to wear it for winter 2022/2023, so it can go to goodwill.
Aunt Jamesina
About ten years ago, I had a pretty large wardrobe full of things that I mostly liked individually, but didn’t make for a cohesive wardrobe, so I ended up making a few rules for my wardrobe to streamline things. After a huge purge and being super selective about what I add to my wardrobe, I now have a much smaller wardrobe that I’m really happy with. I think my rules might make my wardrobe sound boring, but I rely on tops and accessories to add interest and wear plenty of color and patterns. I think the best thing to do is first list out the items you really love and try to figure out what it is about them that you like. Try to keep the focus on what you want to keep, rather than on what you should get rid of.
-I use black (never navy or brown) as my dark neutral. That includes leather goods, although I do buy shoes/belts/bags in tan and cognac, since they work with black clothing
-I only buy bottoms in neutral colors (for me, that’s black, gray, cream/white, denim, and olive green) so that they can easily coordinate with most of my tops
-I avoid patterns for bottoms (aside from subtle dressy patterns like herringbone), so I can wear most of my bottoms with patterned tops
-I occasionally bend my rules for dresses and jumpsuits, since I only have to coordinate them with shoes. The one navy item I own is a dress.
-I figured out which colors complimented my skin tone and I never, ever buy clothing that doesn’t work with my coloring no matter how beautiful it is. I get my fix of colors I like but can’t wear through home décor
-I very strongly prefer natural fibers over synthetics. And wool, no matter how nice, makes me super itchy and I never buy it except for socks
-Items need to fit really well and they need to be comfortable off the rack (and they shouldn’t necessitate crazy undergarments!). I’ll pay a bit for tailoring when truly necessary, but otherwise I won’t buy it if it doesn’t fit and feel perfect
-All of my workout bottoms are black so every top works with every bottom. I don’t want to think about my workout clothes any more than necessary
-I absolutely refuse to wear shoes that are bad for my feet. I keep one pair of nude-for-me suede pumps with a block heel and that’s it. I won’t buy shoes unless they’re super comfortable. I wear the heck out of them and get them re-soled as needed
-I got sick of costume jewelry tarnishing and getting all tangled up in my jewelry box, so I pared way down and now I avoid the plated brass stuff that looks junky after a few wears. Most of my jewelry is now sterling silver since it’s not too expensive and holds up
-Be really honest with yourself about how much occasion wear you truly need. I have one black cocktail dress that fits like a glove and it works for the vast majority of the weddings and formal events that I attend. Your “LBD” doesn’t need to be black or boring, though! A really great dress or outfit you feel amazing in will work for this purpose
-I rarely want to switch handbags, so I have a small crossbody for everyday, a larger shoulder bag that converts to a backpack (currently serving as my diaper bag), and a small clutch on a chain that I use for formal occasions
-You probably need fewer sloppy clothes for painting or whatever messy tasks you might do than you think (if you even need them at all– in my apartment days, I don’t think I really needed much more than one old t-shirt). I keep a pair of joggers, a pair of shorts, and two t-shirts for this purpose (and I turn them inside out when painting so that they don’t look too terrible).
I liked Marie Kondo’s book for getting motivated about sorting through items, although I didn’t follow her strategy to the letter.
Vicky Austin
This is great and super helpful. A few years ago I tried to instate navy as my primary neutral, but it was a little hard to find then.
Amy
I LOVE the idea of black as the only neutral. Ohhhh the amount of olive and navy pants/shoes I have bought and never worn…
Aunt Jamesina
Yes, that rule has definitely kept me from buying a number of items that would have gone unworn!
Anon
I have navy as my only neutral, which is harder to find, but I’m about 85% transitioned away from black and I love it. Navy is a much, much better color on me.
Anon
I’ve moved >20 times and have always regretted the clothing purges I’ve done for a move.
Aunt Jamesina
It’s so individual, I’ve regretted moving so many items that I never wore again!
Anon
Me too! Really miss so many things I purged while “in the moment “ of moving.
Anon
I’d try to trim down each category (skirts, short-sleeve shorts, underwear etc) by one-third. And I’ll say I loved how simple it was to dress when I was pregnant – I had a very limited set of maternity clothes and all of it was comfortable and fit well (until I few out of it), and because there was so little it was easy to make outfits and never had too much laundry. It’s very freeing.
Duckles
If you want a rule, what I did when I traveled for a year is have 1 full week’s worth of every type of clothing, depending on how much it needs to be washed (cold weather work (5 long sleeve shirts and two pairs of jeans), warm weather work (5 tanks and 2 pairs of shorts), cold weather casual, warm weather casual, cold weather fitness, warm weather fitness, etc.) and in no less than 2 of an item in case one is in the wash (sweatshirts, etc.). Only keep one type of shoes per outfit category so pick neutrals (eg, you get one pair of day sandals, one pair of nice sandals, one pair of sneakers, one pair of loafers, one pair of boots, and that covers it).
OP
Oh this is brilliant. Thank you!
CarAnon
“New” car recommendations please! My beloved Ford C- MAX was totaled yesterday (thankfully, everyone is safe) so I’m unexpectedly in the market for a new used car. My 6′ husband wants me to use this as a chance to upgrade in size so he can stop
feeling squished in front of the rear facing car seat. We live downtown though so I really don’t want something big.
Any big hatchbacks/small SUVs that can comfortably fit a family of 4 but don’t feel enormous?
Anon
Subaru Forester?
Anon
+1 to a Subaru of some sort.
Anonymous
Subaru Impreza wagon (as a 6ft woman who drives one in a city)
Anon
We have an Impreza and a Forester. My tall husband doesn’t really fit so well in the Impreza with a rear facing car seat. We bought ravas because they are one of the better fitting seats for extended rear facing (I know graco extend2fits take up a little more room front to back), but it would still be nice if the driver’s seat could go a little further back. The Forester has slightly more room.
Anon 2.0
I have a 22 Outback and fwiw, I am not happy with it. I had a 2020 Outback and it gave me TONS of problems so I traded it in for a 22, thinking I just had a lemon. Nope, having the same issues with the 22. The touch screen system is terrible – constantly freezing, turning itself off, going completely black, etc. Same issues I had with the 20 where they replaced the screen and computer system and it still didn’t work. The 20 also had faulty fuel pump issues and stranded me at the furniture store on a freezing cold night. The 22 is set to go back to the dealer yet again to see what can be done about the screen – lately the AC gets stuck on full blast and because the temp controls are on the touch screen you just ride in the artic tundra.
Anonymous
They don’t make Subarus like they used to. I had a 2012 that was a lemon and will never buy one again. Toyota or Honda 4eva.
Anonymous
I have a 2020 forester I bought over an outback in part because I hated how everything in the outback was controlled by the touch screen; the forester has actual knobs for a/c and volume. Maybe I’m An Old, but I want physical controls for this stuff.
Cat
The Volvo XC90 is popular with young city families.
Anonymous
Roomy inside yes, but it’s big! Def not easy to squeeze into small / parallel parking spots downtown
Anonymous
I love my Forester! I wanted a small SUV and it’s perfect.
Anon
My mom who is 6′ and has proportionally very long legs found the Subaru Forester to be one of only two cars she felt comfortable in and not squished. The other was a sedan (Toyota Avalon).
Vicky Austin
I love my Toyota Rav4 – feels compact but we’ve fit 5 people and a big dog into it with no problems. Mine is about 10 years old, but my sister recently got a brand new one and is just as pleased with hers.
Anon
We also like our Rav 4, 6 years strong. Bought specifically because it fit into our urban garage.
Anon
+1 hybrid 2017 RAV4 . If I could afford it, I’d get a new RAV4 Prime
Anonymous
I would get a Rav4 or a Honda CRV. My tall friend (and her even taller husband) has a CRV and she likes it and it is easy to park. I rode in the backseat on a girls trip and was perfectly comfortable and there was plenty of room for stuff in the back.
Anon
Counterintuitive but the Mini Countryman is great for tall people – it’s boxy inside, and is easy to park in a city. Would easily work for a family of 4.
anon
I love my Mazda CX-5 and I got the Turbo version so it is fun to drive. I upgraded to this from a Subaru Impreza and I way way prefer the Mazda. Enough space for our family of 3 (one carseat) plus large dog.
Anon8
I also have the cx-5 and love it! Went from a 2010 Volvo XC-70 to a new Mazda and don’t regret it at all. Gas mileage is not great but the interior feels surprisingly luxurious for the price point. My Volvo was constantly breaking down and always cost a fortune to fix so I wanted something reliable above all else and landed on Mazda. Also I was able to get one right away and not have to wait forever like many folks are right now.
anon
When I bought my CX-5 I googled something about it and ended up finding a Reddit forum for CX-5 owners who love love their cars. :)
And I totally agree that the interior feels more luxurious than the price point would suggest. It feels really well made.
Anon
+1 on the CX-5. Ours is 8 years old and we still haven’t had to fix a single thing, just general maintenance. The only thing I dislike about it is that the seats are a little too deep for me and the car generally feels like it’s designed for a taller person (I’m 5’3″), but that doesn’t sound like it would be a problem for you.
Anonymous Canadian
Love, LOVE my CX-5! Replaced the last of several generations of Honda Pilots with this once I had to stop driving half a soccer team around – it’s fab!
DeepSouth
I bought my Acura MDX because I wanted the absolute smallest car with a third row seat and I love it. It’s the same wheel base as the large sedan, so parks really well and has room if we have carpool from sports practice and whatnot, but I can still park easily downtown. The RDX doesn’t have a third row seat, so may be a little smaller.
Senior Attorney
It’s expensive but I love my Audi Q5.
Anon
I had a rental Audi Q5 after someone slammed into my parked Subaru Outback and it was in the body shop for awhile. I loved that rental car! I thought, “NOW I see why people spend money on really nice cars!” I had no idea how buttery smooth and delightful a car could be to drive!
Anon
If you don’t mind that they’re a little funny looking, you might want to test drive a Kia Soul. The boxy design means there is a ton of headroom, and the interiors of Kias are very very nice these days.
Anonymous
I am 5’9 and my husband is 6’2. When we had kids in carseats, we drove a Honda CR-V and LOVED it. Lots of room in the cabin for people who are tall, and fun to drive.
anon
I love love love my VW Tiguan. I also have a 3rd row seat in it, which will only fit tiny children, but it’s a nice to have for sure.
Also, I am a very leggy 5’11” and germans make cars for big people.
It gets great mileage, has a really good screen for all the electronic stuff and very intuitive climate control with real buttons (not on the console) and heated seats. LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE.
anony
Check out the Ford Escape — the plug in hybrid version is great for zero emissions city driving, and it’s a good combo of big enough to be comfortable but easy to park
Formerly Lilly
Cadillac XT5. Suited exH who was 6’2″. It’s a comfortable ride – a bit sportier in the way it rides than other Cadillacs, and it’s reliable. Holds five adults comfortably. The rear seats fold flat and the cargo space is phenomenal for a rather ordinary sized SUV. Do not buy a 2017 model. That was the first year of production and there are some really bad ones out there. Ask me how I know. 2019 forward is very good.
anon
I went to see my mother last night for an early dinner and we got into a bit of a disagreement- help me think through this- I’m 34, she’s 62. She’s very conservative and religious and I am not. I generally avoid all topics that are likely to raise issues, but she consistently pesters for us to be more open and talk about personal stuff. We had a very vanilla conversation last night that I didn’t expect to be a problem but wasn’t about food or the weather, and it basically ended with her huffing and puffing with disapproval and telling me we had different views because she believes in the one true god who has a model for XZY that she follows, and I don’t and I must be poorly influenced by others in my generation etc etc. I’ve been in therapy and I did draw the boundary- basically saying I am not going to listen to you openly disapprove of me and be critical, and if what you want is a closer relationship then I expect you’ll let go of these very narrow expectations you have that I’m exactly like you and do what you say, and treat me with respect as an adult, and here are the behaviors that means for me….
What’s unfortunate is that I think she is genuinely a warm person and is trying so hard but doesn’t have the emotional awareness and skills to not be a jerk. She wasn’t given much to work with growing up, so I get she’s doing the best she can but the behavior is also not acceptable to me. She said she will try to go to counseling to learn to communicate better so she’s not so off putting (I’ve explained to her why I don’t like the things she says and I think she tries really hard but struggles to understand. So I am thinking about getting us counseling together. If it works great, and if it doesn’t I’ve given it my best shot and can just go back to talking about the weather and setting boundaries as needed.
Any thoughts? I am just frustrated and ready to just let an care of this whole thing go (we have always had a difficult relationship) but I am also willing to be proactive and solution oriented and give it a last solid go.
Anonymous
Oof, I think you are being nasty and overly demanding here. And I say that as someone who has gone no-contact with toxic relatives. If I were your mom I’d be looking for more distance.
Anon
I didn’t get that at all. It sounds like mom was the one “huffing and puffing” and being disapproving, and OP set a reasonable boundary.
You clearly aren’t going to get anywhere talking about religion or politics with your mom, OP, so every time she brings it up you need to remind her that you’re not going to discuss this with her. If she persists, end the conversation, whether that means hanging up or physically leaving.
Anonymous
Wow no this is wrong
anon OP
yeah I agree, I think what I’m struggling with is that there’s a long list of topics (to include those that I won’t touch) but even non-controversial topics seem to result in a lot of criticism about random stuff. So I shrink the stuff I’ll talk about narrower and narrower and then she gets upset that all we talk about is food. I did try to leave last night but then she seemed genuinely interested in making things better and so I figured I would stay. Maybe I just disengage anyway and let it go now?
Anon
What?! This is one of the weirdest comments I’ve ever read here. What suggests OP is being “nasty” or “overly demanding”? It was the mom who got angry at OP, not the other way around.
Anon
This is probably the same person talking about how bad women are if they don’t want to go on solo vacations with their in laws.
Anonymous
I think it’s fantastic she’s open and willing to go to counselling. I hope you can work through this and grow together or apart, as the need may be.
Anonymous
For the mom’s sake I hope it’s apart.
Anonymous
OMG do not make your mother go to counseling to deal with your issues.
Anon
Found the mom.
Anonymous
Such an odd take
anon OP
I mean she suggested it of her own accord and seemed interested. I’m happy to set it up. I don’t see the problem with that? And the issue I have is she seems to take every opportunity of me to be extremely critical in some pretty hurtful ways. I’m not willing to listen to it anymore.
Amy
I think it’s a great idea, if “just be nice” isn’t something she can figure out on her own without professional advice. A pro may be able to help her get to the bottom of why she feels the need to make critical comments, versus just listening non-judgmentally, and give her tools to respond more appropriately.
Anon
This sounds hard and yes, I agree with you, OP. I think therapy with your mom could be a creative approach that could help teach both of you how to get more of what you want from each other. It’s worth a try!
My wife went to a therapy session with her mom decades ago when my wife was disclosing about incest in the family. It helped.
Anonymous
If you’re open to therapy and she’s open to therapy then it sounds like a great option!
Anon
I’m a little confused about the boundary bit. Certainly, you get to establish your boundaries and reinforce them, but that doesn’t mean telling her what she can and can’t do. You set the boundaries and if she breaches them, so leave or you shut down the conversation or whatever. You don’t dictate what she says or does. That sounds an awful lot like what you are complaining about her doing.
You have to accept her as she is, draw and reinforce your boundaries, and let go of the idea she is some day going to wake up and be the mom you want her to be.
anon OP
Sorry, what I meant to say was I draw the boundary and she wants to know what it would take for me to share things with her. So I say it would be XYZ (stuff like you don’t get to tell me I’m going to hell and that I’m bad because I have a career and don’t leave that to my husband). I’m not trying to dictate her behavior but she is pushing for us to make this better so I felt like it was a fair question to answer. I’ve generally been the one limiting contact and leaving when things go poorly and she’s trying to push back that she feels we have too superficial a relationship.
Anonymous
You don’t draw the boundary and TELL her what it is. That’s just baiting her. You just deflect when she tries to cross it.
Bonnie Kate
I understand better now, I posted the comment before seeing this response. That is frustrating that she’s overtly pushing for more, to which when you answer then causes her to cross your boundaries. Perhaps you could reminder her that it’s a superficial relationship or no relationship at all? Idk, that might not be good either.
Tina
I get what you’re saying about her upbringing etc. If what she would have to do to get over the background is not realistic or not going to happen, just don’t tell her. Only tell her if there is a snowball’s chance in hell of it actually happening.
My safe topics with my mom are cooking, clothes, the weather, what random relatives are doing. So I get it. Nothing personal. Its frustrating, but this way I can have a nice relationship with my mom but also not get upset by things. My therapist literally told me to chit chat with her less because if we talk a lot she gives a lot of input where it is not wanted.
Bonnie Kate
+1 perfect description of boundaries. I think generally boundaries are misunderstood as for other people when they’re really for ourselves. We feel like we need to explain our boundaries to other people, while the most peaceful and powerful way to enforce boundaries (in my experience) is to just enforce them without further comment.
OP – So when she starts to huff and puff, now that you’ve said the things once, you don’t need to say them again. You need to not engage in the conversation, whether that means changing the subject, avoiding the subject altogether, or leaving.
Aunt Jamesina
I agree with this. If you list your boundaries up front, people see it as a point to negotiate. The point of boundaries is that they aren’t up for negotiation. OP, I think you just need a phrase to fall back on when your mom crosses your boundary.
Anon
This. It’s not actually setting boundaries to announce boundaries! This is why therapists always say things like “‘No’ is a complete sentence.”
Anonymous
Ugh yeah I feel this and I’m so sorry. My very religious family spout some terrible stuff and it’s hard to deal with. They legitimate criticized me for working at an NGO to help the poor because the clients “are a drain on tax resources”. It’s really a mind f*ck when someone whose whole identity is founded in being ‘good’ is anything but.
Anonymous
I think you should keep.trying here if she is openly saying she is trying to work with you and not just damning you to hell for not.following her beliefs. But I don’t think individual counseling is going to be effective at getting her to communicate in the way you want her to. Joint counseling might, and possibly after she truly understands what you re looking for, individual sessions could be fruitful. But otherwise she is telling a counselor what she thinks you mean and that is probably going to get lost in translation.
Also, I think it is fair for you to ask her not to disrespect you and your right to make autonomous choices but I am not sure it is fair for you to expect her not to tell you when she disagrees/disapproves. That is fundamentally what a parent/child relationship is. The unconditional love is just supposed to survive that and it sounds like it does here, at least from her side.
anon OP
Your last comment is interesting and I guess I hadn’t thought of it that way, mostly because I have more or less lived my life on the straight and narrow path. I guess I feel like I could accept it if there was something “reasonable” I’m doing that she doesn’t approve of, but it feels like it’s literally anything all the time and random stuff that also seems contradictory, like she always wanted me and my sister to be able to take care of ourselves (largely bc she relied on the men in her life for security but that didn’t end well), but she doesn’t like that I’m more senior to my husband in our careers (we’re at the same company so it’s kind of obvious) and is mad that I’m not following gender roles. It just seems gratuitous and unreasonable.
I’m rambling and frustrated but it’s a good point that I’m not entitled to her approval. It just kind of feels like I should be because I was always a good kid, but I guess she can disapprove of whatever she wants. sigh.
anon
I grew up in a fundamentalist Christian environment. When they want you to be able to take care of yourself but don’t want you to be senior to men, it means they want you in a “traditionally female” role like nurse or teacher. It’s not contradictory–it’s just very narrow.
Bonnie Kate
she can disapprove of whatever she wants, but she doesn’t need to tell it to you, and that’s a reasonably expectation for you to have. My parents certainly strongly believe that I should be a church attending, child bearing, married to another church attending man, but just because I’m not those things doesn’t mean that they tell me that they don’t approve or I should change my ways.
They did when I was younger and these decisions seemed more on the table, but even then the comments were not constant in every conversation. And they stopped when I married DH and we eventually made clear we weren’t interested in having children.
If I think about it, do I know that they pray for me and DH to make different life choices? Yes. But I don’t care as long as they aren’t telling me these things.
Aunt Jamesina
I strongly disagree that an adult parent/child relationship has to fundamentally be about what they approve or disapprove of. I realize this can be cultural, but if OP doesn’t want their relationship to be about that, it doesn’t have to be.
Anon
I absolutely don’t think you’re being overdramatic or demanding at all. I also don’t think you’re trying to make your mother go to counseling to “deal with your issues.” It’s not unreasonable to not want to be upset my spending time with someone who constantly reminds you you aren’t living up to their ideas for what a good person is. I’ve seen this dynamic with a former spouse and their parents. It eventually led to a near estrangement. Former spouse asked them repeatedly to consider family counseling and they refused. I think the fact that your mother is open to it is a great sign. I would 100% go. Something about having a third-party can be really helpful in situations like this. You are two people who obviously love each other very much and want a relationship. Pay a professional to help you get there. That’s their job, and most are really good at it when both parties come in wanting to make the relationship work.
Anon
This is so well stated. I fully agree.
Anonymous
As someone whose mother has some similarities (desperate desire to be close while not able to understand how her own behavior makes that happen) my personal feeling is that you should ignore your mother’s pestering to be close to you and get out of this toxic unsatisfying relationship drama with her.
My mother is not conservative/religious but problematic for other reasons. Other than this detail, it sounds very similar to my situation, so I know how stressful and crappy this must be for you. I have zero hope of my mother changing so I keep everything as superficial as possible and get my emotional connections out of other relationships.
anon
Internet stranger advice- Take people as they are. Accept that fundamentally, your mom leaving her conservatism and religious views is likely never going to happen. It happens sometimes, but take time to do the work to decide what kind (if any) relationship you are willing to have if the answer is she will never not disapprove of some aspects of your life. But, counseling with her is unlikely to change her core beliefs. Counseling, however, can help you decide what kind of relationship you want with her, and, maybe facilitate the flip side of the conversation of “I’m not changing, what kind of relationship do you want with me.”
No Face
I agree. You know what your mother thinks about certain topics. If you don’t want to hear her thoughts on those topics, learn how to steer the conversation to topics you like talking about.
For example, my mother has now decided that getting a COVID booster shot is bad. You know what I’m not talking about with her ever again? COVID booster shots. But Usher’s tiny desk concert? We are all over that.
Anonymous
Talk to your counselor about next steps and see if she can help you. When my parents were living I made lists of topics we could discuss and stuck with those. Anything else went down a really bad road.
anon OP
Thanks ladies,
anon OP
Meant to say thank you all for your thoughtful comments.definitely some changes I can make.
Anon
Along along with other commenters who have noted similar experiences, I have a similar age difference with my mom and it really has been one of the hardest relationships to negotiate in my life. I have a very small family and my father is deceased so it’s really just my mom, me, and my sister. I love my mom and want a relationship with her but the topics we can discuss are narrow and superficial otherwise I get an earful of racism, homophobia, and poorly informed economic arguments. I’ve had a period of no-contact with my mom (one in 2017 and one in 2020 around the election after she said some things to me I’ll never forget about my character). This was actually really tough for me so I also want to add that perspective. I’d rather have a superficial relationship with my mom than no relationship (although not saying something when I hear horrible things also makes me feel complicit in enabling her views). As other posters have suggested, the thing that has helped me the most was acceptance that this is who my mom is (and what that looked like in practice was about a year-long period of grief where I gave up the idea forever of having the mom I actually need). Wishing you the best
Seventh Sister
I’ve had similar conflicts with my own mom, and at some point I just realized that while she’s amazing in some ways, we just aren’t going to have a super close relationship and I have to assiduously avoid certain topics. And it’s not always going to be comfortable – I have to say things like, “I’m not discussing climate change, I just mentioned that it’s nice outside.” We don’t have the religious conflict issue, it’s more about political stuff.
While she’s come a long way in accepting some people (e.g., she 100% in favor of gay marriage), she’s a really bright white woman who grew up in the 1950s in the Midwest, married her college sweetheart, and never lived in a big city. And now she’s becoming a fussy old lady with a rigid schedule who is scared of driving. It makes me sad but it’s just the way it’s gone with her.
Seventh Sister
Just to give an example about LGBTQ issues, she adores my gay BILs because they are super nice guys who adore her grandchildren. She’s glad they are married, because they are adults and to her, marriage=adulthood. Honestly, I’ll take the W even though I think it’s a terrible reason to support gay marriage.
anon OP
Thank you for all your comments. It’s kind of hard because I had sort of resigned myself to not talking about basically anything it’s not just religion, politics etc, yesterday it was the fact that I’ve taken to wearing my wedding ring around my neck that set her off. Anyway, I think (1) actually removing myself from these situations when they occur (and when she doesn’t take the redirect or when she insists on a certain topic when I’ve said no) is definitely something I need to be better at. and (2) I was sort of taken off guard by her willingness to work on it and so I guess that got my hopes up.
I don’t expect her to not be religious or conservative, and since she’s interested I’ll do the therapy and see where things go from there. If we end up in the same place then I just need to be better about excusing myself when she gets this way.
Thanks so much for all of your thoughts here. I appreciate it.
Anon
Ugh. How is my org not able to get out of its own way so that we can actually do our job? Today’s fun: document security on some documents was changed to ThreatCon 5 so that no one is authorized to work on them anymore. And the people who can undo this are either in a training that is not key to our mission or on vacation. No notice. Seems to have happened at 7pm EST last Friday.
Anon
Sounds like a nice, low-key day to me!
Anon
Hair question – has anyone had their hair texture change in their late 20s?
28 and in the last 3 or so months Ive noticed more new growth or baby hairs coming in with a different texture. My hairs always been fairly straight, light brown and doesnt hold styling or braids well but is thick enough that I ask for a lot of thinning when I get a cut to take off the weight.
Baby hairs Im seeing are darker brown or black, more wirey and wavy. I feel frizzy and fly away by the end of the day.
Anonymous
I am in my 40s and discovered during the pandemic that I have very wavy hair, not straight.
Anon
Do you color your hair? I do and have noticed more “would be gray but are dyed” hairs that have a decidedly different texture – my natural hair is fine and light brown, and these hairs are definitely more wiry or frizzy (even though they aren’t “gray” since they are dyed along with the rest of my hair). I don’t have a solution, unfortunately.
No Face
I don’t dye my hair, but my grays are nothing like the rest of my hair. It’s very annoying. Also no solutions.
Anon
No coloring in my hair and I havent noticed greys yet. I’d love to discover that I have waves. Besides hair oil on just the very ends, I avoid products. In the past the mousse and styling product were just too heavy and made me look greasey than anything. I have like 0 interest in doing more than the rare blow dry too, I dont have the patience for the amount of time or wrestling it takes to dry straighten or curl.
Its been about 5 years since Ive had my hair as long as it is now and I guess part of this is getting used to having longer hair again
Anonymous
Around that age, my fine, totally straight hair grew in curly/wavy. My mother kept asking me when I got a perm. I had to be taken aside at a party and told that one doesn’t brush curly hair. I’m still learning how to handle it.
Anon
A friend’s hair went from straight to wavy around that age and my hair got thinner and the texture changed after I had a baby at age 30 (probably hormones and maybe age) so definitely possible.
Anon
There was nothing I wanted more as a teenager than curly hair. Or wavy hair, or hair that did something other than just hang straight down at the sides. I had Cher hair, and it just laughed at my attempts with the curling iron.
Then I had babies and now I have wavy hair. I can’t explain how or why pregnancy changed it, but it did, and it seems to be permanent. If I air dry my hair, it has s-shaped waves of varying sizes all over my head. If I blow dry my hair, I can get it fairly straight but never as stick straight as it was in my childhood, and there’s one area that will stubbornly spring back to an s-shaped wave at the first opportunity, no matter how straight the rest of my hair remains.
I don’t know why it changed, but I like it. Now if we could talk it out of the greys, that would be helpful….
Anonymous
I’m struggling to come to terms with how drastically different my life is since covid. My job is 100% fully remote. I switched jobs recently, both remote. I have a closet full of workwear I never put on. I’ve donated some but need to purge more. It is hard!
I’m also making plans to calendar working from a cafe periodically to get out of the house. Any tips, commiseration, advice on a completely remote future? It is stressing me out.
Anon8
I’ve been remote for 6 years. Pre-Covid I was a member of a local coworking office and looooved it. I’d go a couple days a week and made a bunch of friends there. We’d all chit chat and go out to lunch or happy hour, it was great. I do think you have to find a coworking space with a good friendly vibe though. I tried joining a bougier one more recently and it just felt like working in a airport lounge lol.
Natural Hair
I have been listening to the Minimalist podcast lately and cleared 8 large bags from my closet this weekend. (We don’t need to talk about what I bought from the NAS though). The next thing I want to do is grow out my hair. I have dyed it since I was 22 every normal shade from black to blonde and it’s currently blonde. My natural color is probably about 60% gray and the rest is like a brownish red. I am turning 40 this year. I am a little nervous though. It’s my hair! My biggest splurge. I do not want to cut it so it would be pretty awkward for a while. I am wondering if the hive has any tips/tricks/stories about going natural with hair. I am spending $200 (or more) every month not to mention the 2 hours it takes.
FWIW, I am a civil trial lawyer but trial is really the only time (2-3 times per year) I am doing things in person. I go into the office almost every day but most proceedings are by zoom/webex/phone these days. I have a significant other who supports growing it out but not cutting it.
nuqotw
Can you stylist give you a transitional dye job?
OP
This is an excellent idea. I will consult with him on that next appointment.
Anonymous
Do you actually want to do this or are you ticking things off a list because of a podcast?
Anonymous
OPs life decisions are not a personal attack at you.
OP
Actually it’s a podcast by two men so natural hair isn’t really part of it. Rather I am embracing the idea of simplifying some things in my life that I do not need. Some are easier than others like the closet took more time and I had to be in the right headspace to “shop my closet” and if I wouldn’t buy the item today at a store, it had to go with some minor exceptions. That one just took time (and perhaps the motivation of doing laundry this weekend and having exactly one less hanger than I needed). But it feels great. This one I am still working out the logistics so I thought I would ask for tips since I know a lot of people did this since COVID.
I think one of the podcasters doesn’t have internet at home at all. I will not be ticking that one off! But I am trying and this one is especially hard. However, it’s a thing I spend a lot of time and money on that I do not really enjoy anymore. It’s just the way I’ve always done it so I am trying to break free from some things like that, and this is one of them.
FormerlyPhilly
Grow out your hair from a pixie cut? Or grow it out from a chin length bob?
Anonymous
She means growing out the gray, but her SO does not want her to cut it short to ease the transition.
Anon
The way I read it is that OP doesn’t want to cut it, and SO is supportive.
OP
It is below my shoulders but I don’t want to cut it short. I am terrible at styling it and it’s curly on the bottom more than the top so I try to keep it long plus I love my ponytail and clips.
anon
I grew my hair out recently. I worked with my colorist to highlight my hair in a way that let the natural color blend in, at least to a degree, as it grew. My hair was shoulder-length, so it took about 2 years.
DeepSouth
Can you get one more round of color that’s closer to your natural color, even if it’s something like highlights that layer in the darker tones so that doesn’t grow out with a clear line of demarkation? It could be easier to deal with the transition that way…..
Anon
I would definitely do this. A good colorist can do this in a way that will make the transition line less stark
Anon
I asked a growing out the gray question on here, and at least one poster mentioned this method where you only dye the hair on either side of your part and let the gray grow out underneath. Then when the gray has grown out enough that you can cut the old dyed part off, you switch your part to the gray side and let the dyed strip grow out.
I decided against transitioning, for now, but I keep it in mind for the future.
Anonymous
It’s called the dye strip technique, if the OP wants to check it out. Lots of tutorials available.
If you want a transitioning technique, either a balayage or highlights (or maybe lowlights, if you want to keep the blonde while you’re growing them out) can be successfull. You’ll have an advantage starting from blonde.
anonn
I think that was my post. My last full dye was in March 2021. I dyed the part for about 6 months. My hair is now below chin length and almost completely natural. I can’t recommend the technique enough if you want to go gray. Very important to start with a color that is as close as possible to your natural regrowth.
Anon
Join the “gray and proud” Facebook group. Good ideas and inspiration there.
Anon
I am struggling with resentment. My husband is FINALLY getting snipped 15 years after we knew we were done with procreating. Our gardening in those 15 years has been pretty mediocre, mainly because I wanted nothing to do with another round of baby and he disliked any measures that impacted his physical experience, no matter how minor. He knows this and yet acts I have just been a spoil-sport stomping on his fun this whole time. I am angry that now that Roe has been overturned, he thinks it really is time to be responsible as a man. Like, the burden all being on me was okay these past 15 years? And now I’m supposed to be excited and give him kudos for being so thoughtful and baby him and pamper him while he recovers? And then I’m supposed to be wild about gardening again? Dude, you shot yourself in the foot on this one and I am not here for it.
Anonymous
I am 100% with you. Eff lazy selfish men who won’t do the right thing without cheerleading.
Anon
Are you sure you want to stay married to this man? Especially since your youngest child is almost out of the house?
anonshmanon
Let me preface this by saying I would also be struggling with resentment, and although he finally came around to your side of seeing things, it can be dissatisfying after such a long, and what sounds like a difficult time. The thing that works best for me when it comes to grudges and resentment, is to be very clear about the potential resolution and what ultimately benefits me. Assuming he comes through and gets the procedure done, is that the main thing you want or are you holding out for more? If you want some kind of apology a) is DH aware and b) is it realistic that he will give you that?
If you were to let go of your resentment, even just for a while, what would that leave you with? What I mean is, if you disregard all that baggage for a while, would you be up for more intimacy with DH? Not because he wants it but because you want it too? If you discover that there is something there that YOU want that resentment is standing in the way of, that would be a motivation to move on and let yourself have some fun. Life is too short.
Anonymous
I mean just get a divorce since you clearly don’t like him. Like cannot imagine 15 of petty sulking instead of a) taking birth control or b) just getting a divorce.
Anonymous
This is unkind. Her body already went through the wringer with pregnancy and birth. It’s not her job to take hormones just so her husband can get what he wants. He should have stepped up and gotten the snip when they decided they were done having kids.
Mouse
Yeah, no. I’d feel the same.
LA Law
Normally my advice here as a long-time married would be let it go. Not because he deserves it but because resentment is the enemy of happiness.
But (and I am sorry but there is no kind way to say this), you engaged in “mediocre” s*x for FIFTEEN years while seething that your husband would not get a vasectomy (I am assuming you have some medical issue with birth control and refused to have a tubal ligation because it is a more major procedure and you thought he should have the vasectomy). You are not willing to “pamper” him during his recovery from an – admittedly minor – medical procedure. You have no interest in being physically intimate with him in the future because of your build up anger. And frankly your contempt for him absolutely drips off your post.
Do you want to stay married? If so, you need marriage counseling and you need to go into that willing to let this go and move forward together. If not, then be honest with him and yourself and decide on the timeline for divorce. Because this is a miserable situation for both of you with no end in sight.
And to be really clear, I am not defending him. A vasectomy is absolutely the best permanent birth control option for couple that does not want more children. But this is not healthy for anyone.
Anonymous
If he thinks that finally getting the snip (only because he can no longer rely on *your* being able to deal with an “accident” after the fact) is enough to make up for 15 years of refusing, he’s got another think coming. I would be waiting for an honest statement of complete comprehension from him.
Anon
THIS. However one feels about terminating a pregnancy, it’s not an excuse to avoid a vasectomy. The whole thing sounds like he wants birth control to be someone else’s problem, which isn’t okay when you’re engaging in partnered gardening.
DC
I have no advice, but all of those feelings are completely valid.
Anon
I get it. The good thing is, he’s finally getting snipped. But yeah, you are perfectly within your rights to feel the way you do.
Anon
And generally, s3x should be fun for both of you. If he’s not concerned with how much you enjoy it and making you look forward to it just as much as he does, that’s an entirely different and necessary conversation. Try not to conflate the two. But a selfish lover would be 100% a deal breaker for me.
Anon
Wow I’d be resentful too. Tell him you want an apology. you also have my permission to withhold pampering
Mrs. Jones
+1
Anon
So I am going to say what my mother told me when I got married: You can be happy or you can be right. Don’t count on being both.
Full disclosure: In your place, I would have had my tubes tied before I spent 15 years being miserable and resentful. In fact that is exactly what I did do – my husband really did not want to have a vasectomy because he is a giant baby when it comes to medical procedures and I wanted something permanent (it wasn’t fun but it wasn’t all that bad either.) I told him he was a giant baby and he owed me; he let me plan our next vacation and did not complain once when I dragged him through every museum in Rome. I called it even.
So ask yourself: What do you want? For him to grovel at your feet and apologize? Would you trust that it is genuine (especially if he does it at your insistence?) To stew in anger and resentment for the rest of our married life and be passive/aggressive with him? To have strangers on a message board tell you that you are right and he is a selfish jerk? To count down the days until your youngest is out of the house so you can get divorced? Because your next move should be governed by what you want to accomplish.
Anon
Yeah I’m sorry letting your wife plan one vacation is not enough to make up for making her undergo a surgery under general anesthesia that carries serious risks. I’m not OP but vasectomy and tubal ligation are not remotely equivalent. I couldn’t stay married to a man who would let me have major surgery to avoid a minor outpatient procedure.
Anon
IMHO, the fact that they have kids together changes this, too. Childbearing is really HARD. Recovery is hard. It changes your body permanently. However, it is the only way (absent adoption, I guess) to grow your family, so women do it. Vasectomies aren’t a whole lotta fun, but let’s use the same principle: there are some things that you just have to do for your family.
It’s notable that he also wouldn’t use a condom, if I’m reading this correctly. World revolves around him.
Anon
Yeah the condom thing is really gross. It’s one thing if you have a real fear of medical procedures but then condoms shouldn’t be an issue.
Anon @2:51
I am amazed anyone on this Board stays married for more than a year.
Look – marriage has ups and downs. We all make compromises. My husband and I live some place he would rather not because of my job. He takes care of a yard he thinks is too large because I wanted room for a big dog. (Given his way, I suspect we would not have a dog at all.) I had a tubal ligation (which is honestly not that big of a deal; people here act like it is major surgery but I was in and out in an afternoon and back at work in a few days) because he hates doctors and medical appointments and needles. I once flooded our house at the cost of several thousand dollars and am constantly losing my cell phone.
And I thought my trip to Rome was 100% worth the price I paid – particularly since what I really wanted was a permanent form of birth control that worked for both of us.
If OP wants to luxuriate in being in the right, good for her. If she wants to spend the next 15 years being as angry and resentful as she has apparently been for the past 15 years, she certainly has that right. Personally I would not recommend it but then I value being happy (and think my husband is pretty awesome despite being the kind of person who gets woozy when he has blood drawn).
Anon at 2:57
I have been married for almost 20 years. I don’t need a lecture about how marriage has ups and downs, I’ve been through plenty of good and bad times over the years and we’ve had times when we put in work to strengthen our relationship even when it would have been easier to walk away. I really don’t think I have a lot of dealbreakers in marriage, but a man refusing to get a vasectomy while encouraging me to have a tubal ligation would be one. General anesthesia has significant risks for even a healthy young person. Your husband literally risked your life for his own comfort. I don’t care how much he hates doctors, he’s an unbelievably selfish person to put his comfort over his wife’s life and health. No vacation, no matter how fabulous, would be enough for me to get past that.
With respect to OP’s situation, I do agree with you that there’s not a lot of point in staying married if she’s going to continue to hang onto this resentment and unless she wants to get divorced, she should find a way to move past this.
Amy
Aligning this with Roe seems really odd. Is that actually why he’s doing it? Does it impact you personally that much?
Anon
Maybe it’s because he’s worried that his mistress will get pregnant.
Anon
Another vote for him finding a new lease on life after 15 years of waiting. OP, this probably won’t be your husband for much longer.