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Our daily TPS reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices.
Sales of note for 9.19.24
- Nordstrom – Beauty deals through September, and cardmembers earn 3x the points (ends 9/22)
- Ann Taylor – Extra 30% off sale
- Banana Republic Factory – 50% off everything + extra 20% off
- Boden – 15% off new styles
- Eloquii – Extra 50% off sale
- J.Crew – 50% off select styles — and 9/19 only, 50% off the cashmere wrap
- J.Crew Factory – Up to 60% off everything + 50% off sale with code
- Lo & Sons – Warehouse sale, up to 70% off
- M.M.LaFleur – Save 25% sitewide
- Neiman Marcus – Friends & Family 25% off
- Rag & Bone – Friends & Family 25% off sitewide
- Spanx – Lots of workwear on sale, some up to 70% off
- Talbots – Anniversary event, 25% off your entire purchase — Free shipping, no minimum, 9/19 only
- Target – Car-seat trade-in event through 9/28 — bring in an old car seat to get a 20% discount on other baby/toddler stuff.
- Tuckernuck – Friends & Family Sale – get 20%-30% off orders (ends 9/19).
- White House Black Market – 40% off select styles
And some of our latest threadjacks here at Corporette (reader questions and commentary) — see more here!
Some of our latest threadjacks include:
- What to say to friends and family who threaten to not vote?
- What boots do you expect to wear this fall and winter?
- What beauty treatments do you do on a regular basis to look polished?
- Can I skip the annual family event my workplace holds, even if I'm a manager?
- What small steps can I take today to get myself a little more “together” and not feel so frazzled all of the time?
- The oldest daughter is America's social safety net — change my mind…
- What have you lost your taste for as you've aged?
- Tell me about your favorite adventure travels…
ERP
I like the idea of wearing this with a crisp, white button down, slim pants (to balance out the voluminous sihlouette of the sweater), and pumps. Sheek suggestion, Corporette!
chis
ha. sheek.
chix pix
Really cute pick, but woulddn’t it slip off the shoulders?
L
This looks like a good piece to keep in the office as a wrap alternative.
Mac
I agree! I don’t know if I’d have the nerve to style it as regular outfit (the “slouchiness” veers towards too casual territory) but it would be a great piece to leave in the office to layer over lighter sweaters/tops.
ceb
I was JUST thinking that I wish I had it in my office right now . . . freezing today!
K
Definitely! I am getting one of these to hang on the back of my door for those days when I’m freezing!
jcb
I don’t know. I like it and I think it could look great if styled properly, but I think it could easily veer into slouchy blanket territory if it were just thrown on over whatever outfit you happen to be wearing. I think the everyday extra layer should be more generic – blck or brown cardigan, etc.
Of course, that being said, I have been wearing my striped scarf all day, every day this week. ffffreezing in here.
Jen
Can’t wear a coat over it (can you?) so it’s no good on cold days, like now! I love some of the cute wraps out now but they dont work with a winter coat and commuting, not for me anyway….(I dont want to wear wraps over the coat either, too cumbersome–etc.) Just my 2 cents.
Georgia
Love it!
chis
I love how this looks, but I’m a little thrown off by its listing in the “Lounge” section on the website. Makes me worry about the fabric looking sweatshirt-y or something. Definitely worth checking out in person though!
boo
Can anyone explain to me exactly what is a “wrap”? I’m always about 5 years behind the style trends and fairly oblivious – maybe these have always been around but I never noticed them. Is it like an extra large scarf that covers your shoulders and part of your back and requires use of your hands to hold it up all of the time?
fresh jd
precisely :)
surrounded by lawyers
I would only add that you can use a pin or brooch to keep it in place too. Though I can never deal with a wrap except very briefly and without much moving around, at weddings and such.
L
generally they are long enough that you don’t need to use your hands to keep it in place–you just throw one end over your shoulder. i’m sure you’ve seen people wearing them–and you’ll probably notice it now!
RR
I don’t know if I’d wear this to the office, but I could totally love it with jeans and brown boots.
anon - chi
This. It seems too slouch-y for the office. Maybe this is particular to my office, but I see a lot of support staff wearing similar things that are not soooo far removed from wearing a blanket around your shoulders, but I’ve never seen an attorney in one. (I actually don’t mean to ding this particular piece, which I think is cute – just not for my office in particular.)
Kate
Ditto. IMO, it’s the loose sleeves that make it more weekend than work to me. I have a circle sweater with fitted sleeves that I have worn with jean on weekend and wool trousers at work.
AIMS
Very cozy.
Love the cape comment — I totally have one & love it!!!
AIMS
PS: If anyone is thinking of ordering this online, Gap is having a promotion thru 11/20, 15% off purchases of $75, 20% off $100, and 30% off $150.
Enter code SAVEBIG at checkout. Shipping is free.
Frump
Sorry, I can’t like this. The color and shaplessness of it remind me of a shard of an old army-issue blanket that a POW might wrap himself in, and I agree with the comment that suggested this might be made of a sweatshirt-type material to boot. I don’t doubt that something similar, perhaps with a bit more shape made out of a nicer fabric, might work well with some of the afforementioned styling suggestions, but as is, I am personally not a fan.
Bonnie
I ordered this from AT yesterday:
http://www.anntaylor.com/catalog/product.jsp?productId=27462&N=1200006&pCategoryId=3939&categoryId=181&Ns=CATEGORY_SEQ_181&loc=TN&gridSize=sm&showAll=true&defaultColor=Rattan&defaultSizeType=Regular
It has a similar look but with a little more structure.
skippy pea
hmmm. Tried something similar on at Old Navy…does not look good on my recently ..er…enlarged size. sigh
Where is that JIllian Michaels dvd……
Midori
Has shopittome.com been featured here yet? I just discovered it–bi-weekly emails with a roundup of stuff on sale in my sizes and brands I like. It’s free, so I thought I’d give it a whirl. So far, I’m sold on it.
Chicago S
I am a fan of the site as well and have founds some good deals, you can even take a break if you go on vacation or a shopping break.
word police
semi- not bi-. Bi means two (bicycle, etc.), semi means half. The shopittome emails are semi-weekly.
I know I’ll get flamed for this. Just the grammar and misuse of words has been so bad on here lately that I’ve reached my breaking point. I’ve watched too many younger female attorneys fail to progress because they just simply can’t string sentences together well. And “I was just writing a quick comment!” is not an excuse, especially where the mistake shows a misunderstanding, not a typo. In a crowd this educated, and with many of us in a profession where word choice makes a difference, this just shouldn’t be tolerated.
Rant from a cranky old timer over. Apologies to Midori that this comes as a response to her and not one of the other worthy candidates. She’s not a habitual offender; bi and semi are just personal pet peeves.
luluaj
I get shopittome emails daily. Love it.
alhambra
daily e-mail getter as well. I’d be afraid that if I waited for the semi-weekly ones I’d be missing out on great deals. Also it comes around 11am, which is the perfect point for me to take one of my daily breaks.
AEK
I also notice and care about grammar, spelling, and usage mistakes, but hyperbole such as “I’ve reached my breaking point” is just as out of place as misspellings, grammar errors, and poor word choice. I seriously doubt you are anywhere near your breaking point. If you want to dispense unsolicited advice, you could try to helpfully point out a mistake instead of venting about it. A commenter’s mistake is not a personal affront to you, and we aren’t responsible for you nearing, hitting, or exceeding your “breaking point.”
At least save your wrath for the “it’s/its” offenders:)
jcb
I agree! No wrath necessary. I actually appreciate corrections, I share the pet peeve and beyond that I just like to talk about words and grammar. I think it’s interesting and kind of fun. Then again, I will also read a dictionary.
CFM
Or for “sheek” instead of chic in the comment above :) just kidding it actually made me smile haha. Life is too short!
Samantha
I’m pretty sure ‘sheek’ was intentional above. Maybe like kewl. :)
Anonymouse
“this just shouldn’t be tolerated” Seriously? Some people have too much time on their hands.
Midori
Rebuke accepted. The website gives options for the frequency with which emails are sent, but you are correct: I receive semi-weekly emails, not bi-weekly emails.
fresh jd
Actually, you are all wrong. Biweekly is an annoying term with two conflicting meanings. It means “once every two weeks” and “occurring twice in one week”. Before you the grammar police starts issuing citations, please do some research.
See for yourself:
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/biweekly
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/biweekly
Midori
fresh jd, I love you. I feel so educated today!
Anon
I posted this earlier and it got deleted or something! Thank you for pointing it out. Either say “every other week” or “twice a week” and dump the “semi” and “bi”. No one knows what you mean b/c they are ambiguous.
Anon
Thank you, fresh jd. We had this exact fight on my college newspaper staff because we were a “bimonthly” paper published 2 times per month. There was a lot of hand wringing over the proper term until someone just looked it up and discovered at “bi-” is ambiguous.
chix pix
This is too slouchy for my office, too. It looks to me like something to throw on when you are going somewhere in a heated car and hardly have to be out – of – doors, so the open from does not matter. Like when you are going to dinner or to the movies.
Grump
This is the kind of thing I’d wear when sat in front of the TV wearing tracksuit bottoms, some grubby tee shirt and stuffing myself with ice-cream/junk. In other words, it’s slobby.
Chicago S
Like a snuggy……
Preggo Angie
I for one like it, but I’m in a biz casual office so it wouldn’t be going over a suit or anything too formal. And it looks like the front would accommodate my ever-growing midsection. I only worry about the lack of a clasp or button, since I have no shoulders to keep things securely on.
jcb
I bet that a brooch would do the trick.
fresh jd
I like it too, as long as every other component of the outfit is sleek, structured and polished.
THREADJACK
advice please!
I am a junior associate at a large law firm. I’m staffed on a case that is very busy and very big, where the partner assigns all the work to the midlevel associates. However, they don’t seem to distribute it at all and I’m often left with minimal or nothing to do. I’ve asked them if they need help and often get no response or a simple one day job, which I submit, and then nothing else.
I thought it was my work, but I got a great review so that’s not it. What should I do? Why would they not give me work? Any advice would be appreciated.
Thank you.
Another Sarah
Maybe they need to keep up their own billables?
Anon
Probably because they are worried about meeting their hours and they’re hoarding the work.
Maybe talk to the partner about getting more work?
L
Yup. I would ask about getting staffed on other cases, either ask the partner or another partner, or an assigning partner if you have one.
EEP
Maybe they are so busy that they don’t have time to think about delegating tasks? I know it’s kind of silly (they would be less busy if they delegated!!) but sometimes it seems faster to do it yourself.
luluaj
Agreed EEP. Sometimes there is simply no time to explain things and answer follow up question after follow up question. Not to mention re-reviewing the work before sending it up to the partner. I’m not saying it’s right but it’s reality.
mbs
Agree. They may feel it would take more time to explain how to do something than it would to just do it themselves. And at that level, they may not understand the need to train new associates. Keep asking, especially if you know of something they have that you already know how to do.
a lawyer
Agreed. I find myself in that position a lot (and I’m a plaintiff atty not worried about billable hours!) It takes experience to be able to delegate efficiently in a way that the work delegated actually helps, and too many lawyers (me included) do not take the time to learn to do that.
THREADJACK
If it’s the billable thing, then that’s just selfish and pathetic. How’s charging a client for a 5th years work a 2nd year could do helpful to your career? Down the road it shows you can’t prioritize, work with others, or delegate, in my view.
I’m off to speak with the professional development lady who assists the hiring partner in staffing cases. That just leaves a sour taste in my mouth. I don’t see how midlevel associates so willingly would screw over their youngers. . . I’m not competition, I can help, and frankly, I now will never trust you.
Anon
PLEASE take a deep breath. Don’t assume this is what they are doing, don’t assume anything. Just have a calm conversation with the people in charge of staffing about how you have room on your plate and need to take on more work.
anon
Calm down. Honestly, it’s because they want to keep their jobs. I once billed about 200 hrs on a pro bono matter that should have taken about 20 hrs, so that I could meet hours for the year, because if you don’t meet hours, you get canned. Period. Delegating/prioritizing/working with others means diddlysquat if you don’t meet your hours.
Also, be careful about the professional development people. They are NEVER on your side. Don’t trust them! You don’t really want to be viewed as a complainer, either.
uh
“. They are NEVER on your side. Don’t trust them! You don’t really want to be viewed as a complainer, either.”
What do you mean?
anon
The professional development people are paid by the partners – they are in the partners’ pockets. However much they smile and say they want to help you, they know who is buttering their bread, and it ain’t the associates. They will always be ready to rat you out (eg as a ‘complainer’) to the partners.
THREADJACK
I’m not going to complain, just ask what I should do.
I cannot get staffed on another case since I’m on one very large and busy case.
Two: If they are on my side or not, they at least can do something other than me just sitting here surfing the web. I’d rather take that risk then continuously beg for work.
anon
Why can’t you get staffed on another case? That seems weird to me. I would go directly to the partner in charge of the case then, and say that you are not getting any work that is delegated from the mid-levels, and ask him/her what he/she would suggest.
THREADJACK
And I either (1) be viewed as a complainer or (2) not do any work and then get yelled at for my billables being too low and me not speaking up?
So either way I lose, rather be a complainer.
anon - chi
BAD idea. I understand you are frustrated and feel that you could be a big help to these people if only they’d give you a chance, but this is NOT the type of thing to report to professional development! There is not one iota of evidence from what you’ve said that anyone is trying to “screw you over” or doing something inappropriate. If your complaint gets back to these mid-levels, they will hate you for it. It’s not worth pissing off other associates who (may) have power over your career, or even one who has the partner’s ear.
Just go get more work on another case. I’m sure you’re not just staffed on one thing. Also, I echo the above comments regarding billable-hoarding. We’re close to the end of the billable year and frankly it is understandable if people who need hours are taking them.
THREADJACK
Umm, not reporting. Just asking what I should do to get more work. I’m not going to accuse anyone of screwing me over.
In my firm professional development and staffing of cases are the same department. So if you say go speak to the assignment partner, he works with the professional development department.
“We’re close to the end of the billable year and frankly it is understandable if people who need hours are taking them.”
– to that I say KARMA
anon
In that case, I would be careful to be upbeat or at least neutral when speaking with the assigning partner to ask for more work; otherwise you may (as in the above comment) come across as annoying or b!tchy.
luluaj
I don’t think you should take this so personally or frame the situation as a matter of “taking sides.” It’s business, not personal. Take a deep breath and let everyone know that you have capacity to take on more work. Some of my most worthwhile assignments have stemmed from an offhand mention in the kitchen or the ladies room that I have some free time and not from the official assignment person. Be creative and good luck.
THREADJACK
I’d rather speak with teh professional development lady who works with the assigning partner. I know he’s busy. I know she’s not as busy.
We’ll see how it goes. I got a great review, I doubt this will get me fired. I’m just going to politely ask what channel should I go through to get more work. I feel as if I have nothing to do, yet everyone around me has tons of work. And that if I should speak to the partners in charge or the assigning partner. Then, she’ll probably offer to reach out to soandso, and I’ll say, “ok.”
We’re not a mean firm. I dont think professional development here is never on my side, in fact, I think they are some of the nicest people in the firm. Half of them are not lawyers, just HR and Hiring, and whatnot staff who speak to professional development.
Also, the firm never did the mass recession layoffs. So, if you’re hoarding work so I do nothing for a bonus, that’s possibly as crappy as last years, then that’s just selfish.
ID
I think the most important thing to do here is to take a deep breath. If they need hours and are taking them, there is nothing that deserves karma there. That is doing their jobs. If they have more than they can handle but are simply holding on to work for some reason, I agree that is a different situation and a problem.
Cat
@Threadjack – do you actually want advice? You seem to be very ready to reject anything that isn’t “go speak to professional development.” Do whatever is typical at your firm/practice group. I work in a sub-group, so I let the few partners I work with know if I’m light, usually while I’m talking to them about another project (an “oh, by the way, if you need any help, I have room this week” type comment — this may work well for you as you would not be interrupting. You could say something like “this case isn’t keeping me as busy as I anticipated – should I ask professional development for additional work?” Then you avoid annoying the partner while also letting him/her know you are light.).
Just from the impression I’m getting… are you impatient with the mid-levels trying to get work? When you hand something to them that is completed, do you hover there and expect them to read/react to it right away? Even if your work product is good, you may want to reevaluate your attitude…
THREADJACK
For what it’s worth, this has been an ongoing issue, not something that is just this week. Hence, I’m not being impatient.
Also, I STRONGLY DISAGREE with those saying hoarding work is ok. It’s not. It’s as if we’re stranded on a desert island and there’s nothing to eat but a cake and 2 people. You have access to the cake, the other doesn’t. Because you have access to the cake, you keep it all to yourself and share none. End result, the other person dies of starvation first, but you meet the same fate shortly thereafter.
if there’s not enough work, hoarding it wont save you. It just prolongs the end while also showing the world that you are not a decent person, but rather, a selfish one.
Anon
Regarding hoarding work:
If a mid-level association is trying to meet billables, and therefore keeps work for him/herself instead of passing it along in order to meet billables, I have no problem with that.
If said mid-level associate really wants to hit 2400 hours to get a big bonus and is keeping all work for him/herself and staying late each night when no one else is that busy, then I agree it is being a little ridiculous.
You sound entitled and somewhat b*tchy. I don’t think I’d want to give you work either.
Anon
Associate, not association.
*steps away to get more coffee*
THREADJACK
Anon,
You sound like a selfish bitch and I wouldn’t want to work with you.
Go screw yourself, I know what type of person you are.
Anon
So, I will admit that I probably shouldn’t have used the word “b*tchy”, but I do stand by my comment that you sound very entitled and are being extremely dramatic about a problem that could be easily solved by asking senior partners for more work without getting all worked up about whether or not the mid-levels are doing wrong by you.
anonymous
Impartial here. If THREADJACK said this has been going on for a while and has asked for more work I fail to see how she comes across as entitled.
To me, her concerns are legitimate.
Anger on an anonymous board is much different then anger and bitchy attitude to her co-workers, lest me forget the forum we are in here.
Anon, the attack on THREADJACK seemed harsh and uncalled for.
v
I think there’s a middle ground on the hoarding issue too. There’s plenty of work that kind of lies between junior and midlevel associate levels, where the junior can accomplish it but perhaps doesn’t have the experience to really knock it out of the park, and the midlevel can accomplish it but (a) is usually too busy and (b) is more than the client really wants to pay for it. When the midlevel isn’t too busy, it makes since that they’ll take on some more of that work and do a really thorough, stellar job on it (which probably then gets discounted by the partner since the client doesn’t actually want to pay for it or just passed along in a large bill, but that’s the whole problem with billable hours to begin with).
CC
Wow guys. First everyone needs to take a deep breath. Second, has this blog really downgraded into calling each other bitches? Really? For all you know you could be talking to someone you know. I know that is a slim chance and even if its true there is even less of a chance that they will find out who is who, but I’m a firm beliver that you are who you are when no one is looking. You are who you are when you are anonymous on an internet blog. Some commenters show who they are by being kind and giving thoughtful advice, taking on a mentor role. Others choose to cut each other down because they can, because there is no reprussion when we are all online. This may fly as the norm on other blogs, but I for one, come to corporette for something different and I wish we would all go back to treating it that way. If you would not call someone a bitch at a networking event, don’t call them one here. This is directed at both anon and threadjack, threadjack that was an overaction, anon you threw a snarky last sentence in there.
As to actual advice, looks like we are split between if hoarding (or keeping hours) is ok. To be honest, it doesn’t matter if it is. These mid levels are either keeping them out of selfishness, or quite possible they are underworked as well and don’t realize just how little work you are getting. The end result is the same, you don’t have enough work to do. I would focus on the result instead of the why, and there are some good solutions mentioned in the other comments on ways to go about aproaching this.
Anon
I agree with Threadjack, the hoarding, no matter for what purpose, does nothing but hurt those below you. As a junior associate I agree it’s frustrating, and rude. All it makes me want to do is give said midlevel associate horrible work when they do give me work (which is only when they are busy) to screw them over since they have no problem screwing me over.
And there, inherently lies the problem. Overall it’s bad for everyone.
Anonymous
I realize you’re upset, but your tone here shows a lack of professional maturity. Did you just start work this Fall? If so, your billables aren’t too terribly important right now. Why not start soliciting non-billable work like legal research or writing articles and then casually mention that you could also use some more billable work to occupy your time?
Not trying to be mean here, but your attitude here (yes, I realize it’s an anonymous message board) suggests the problem may in fact be you.
Jay
Agreed. If this is reflective of the attitude you show to the mid-levels (who are your bosses, btw, and deserve your respect), I’m not surprised they don’t want to delegate to you. I wouldn’t want to give you work and run the risk that you wouldn’t take constructive feedback either.
lol
A midlevel is not a junior associates boss. The partner is. I believe this is a major problem with midlevel associates, they think they’re the boss. They’re not.
anonymous
Agree with lol.
Jay’s comment made me laugh. When you can fire me then I’ll consider you my boss.
anon
@lol, that may be the case at your firm, but at many firms it’s not. If you are a junior associate, then the midlevel associate is your boss, as is the senior associate and the junior partner and the senior partner. Everyone can assign you work, everyone can tell you how to do said work, everyone can review/give you feedback and have you redo said work, and everyone can then submit a review of your performance and attitude to your file. Sure, the junior and senior partner’s reviews may count more, but not necessarily. And, as mentioned by others above, in my experience it’s pretty common for the more senior partners to check in with the others on their team to hear an evaluation of how the junior associates are performing so far.
alhambra
They may not see is as “hoarding” – they may see it as, normally I would hand this research assignment off if I were busy, but I’m not busy, so I’ll do it myself.
ADB_BWG
I don’t work in a law firm, but this is my situation. I was leading an analysis case and had been told someone from another department was available to help for 20% of her time. At several stages in the project, her assistance was necessary in valuable. At other stages, I was able to cover the work myself. Other than making her feel “involved,” there was no reason for me to take work for which I had time and give it to her – with the net result that I now had to go look for extra work for myself.
Unfortunately, she didn’t see it this way and believed she was being shut out of the project.
I would you suggest you begin by looking at the case and the people. If handing work to you means that those given some level of responsibility have to look for additional work, they may viewed negatively by those above them (i.e. why are you handing off work for which you are responsible, then going out looking for more?).
Just a thought. I can tell you that my colleague’s attitude and complaints have affected the way she is perceived. And not in a good way.
ADB_BWG
*smack* “necessary AND valuable”
L
Yikes. Maybe you don’t get work b/c you’re too dramatic.
anonish
No kidding – note that hoarding was only suggested as a possibility. She has NO idea if that’s the case. Yet, it has turned into the central theme of her argument.
Based on the tone she’s taken here, I can easily imagine a conversation that involves whining “But XXX isn’t giving me work!”
Now that might not be the reality about how that conversation goes, and maybe she just wanted to complain about the lack of work here – but geez, over-reaction much? Especially on a topic that she opened up.
Anon Too
Yeesh. I understand why the OP is upset about this (fellow newbie almost-associatae waiting on CA BAR results myself here), but this conversation is getting out of hand.
Has anyone else noticed that the commenting on this site seems to be more and more angry lately? It’s too bad, because unlike some sites like abovethelaw (if any of you are waiting on bar results still, take my word for it and stay FAR FAR away from the comments on those boards), corporette always seemed to be different.
anon - chi
I agree that personal insults are universally inappropriate, and I regret seeing them in comments here. I don’t want the spirit of this board to change.
On the other hand, this particular OP *really* hit a nerve with a lot of commenters, myself included, and seems like she wants to argue with people more than to receive advice, even though she solicited the advice herself.
rocknroll
Maybe it’s hard for them to think of a task that they can easily explain and can give you to do. Have you tried giving them a specific suggestion? (Ex: I know you’re working on X, can I/would you like me to….[insert idea here]).
Carrie
It is hard to learn to delegate, particularly when the person delegating is in the middle of the food chain. Offer to help. Offer to help. Offer to help. That’s my first piece of advice.
Second, when you do get a project from a senior associate, treat it just like you would a project from someone higher up. When I was a senior associate, I would be so frustrated because, since the newbies thought of me more as a “friend,” I would get half-a**ed work from them, when I knew they were turning in excellent stuff to the people with review power. Then I would end up fixing it. Guess what happens then, the mid-level associate just keeps the work because it’s easier that way.
I am not saying that this second problem is yours. It’s just something to be aware of because it happens ALL THE TIME.
anon
I agree with this 100%. It is so frustrating to have junior associates blow past deadlines and then give me work that I have to completely redo. I don’t blast anyone in their reviews (well, ok, one time, but it was completely deserved), but I won’t give that person my work again. It happens enough that yes, it is easier and more efficient to do most things myself.
Explaw
As an experienced attorney (15 years out of law school) who has supervised many young associates, I want to point out that the original poster may just be unaware that she lacks the skill set, at this point in her career, to do the work the mid-levels are being assigned. Much of the work on big litigation formerly done by the most junior attorneys is now done in-house or outsourced to contract attorneys.
If, after asking everyone on the team (preferably individually) if they could use her help, she still has availability, then she should ask for more work from the assigning partner, and let any partners she particularly wants to work with know that she has availability. Developing relationships that lead to a steady flow of work is a key component to sucess in BigLaw, and if people really value your work product and attitude, it shouldn’t be an issue after a year or so at a firm .
I agree with the other posters that there is nothing wrong with the mid-levels “hoarding” work. They’ve paid their dues, and developed the working relationships newbie still needs to build. In BigLaw, everyone looks out for themselves first, and if the original poster is unwilling to accept this reality, she won’t last long.
K
At my firm the midlevels are hoarding work because the partners are hoarding work. The partners are hoarding work because whether or not a firm did massive layoffs, there is not the same demand for services as there was 3 years ago. Partners at my firm openly admit that 3 years ago they had enough work to keep themselves and multiple associates above 2000 hours, but that now they don’t even have enough work to keep themselves busy for 2000 hours. The mid-levels are stuck in the middle. Why should keeping you busy become their problem instead of the partner’s?
If the midlevels don’t give me work and I know the partner above them is busy, I email the partner directly to say I spoke to so and so and they’re busy but did not have any work for me, is there anything else I can help with?
But honestly, the best advice a midlevel ever gave me is that often partners are too busy to delegate. Find out from their assistant/paralegal/etc. what needs to be done next and then offer to do it. It is easier for them to give a thumbs up or thumbs down to a specific request.
Anonymous
This is right. To the original poster — You don’t have any entitlement to any particular work. Try to tone it down a little. Feel free to go to your department head or the staffing attorneys and ask for more work but viewing this as a personal vendetta is just not helpful. The midlevel associates are not responsible for developing your career, you are. I can guarantee that this is not personal from the midlevels’ perspective. They either don’t have enough work and have time to do the work or they have too much work to spend the time delegating or they don’t like your work. They don’t know how many hours you have or what else you are working on. And for those commenting that it makes you want to turn in shoddy work — that’s unprofessional and immature and will only hurt you. The midlevels ARE your bosses. They have the power to review you and they have been around long enough to have the partners’ ear and their trust. Don’t blow it. It’s really true that it takes a long time to build a reputation and only one incident to destroy it.
Explaw
Just one more thought — the original poster should make sure that she isn’t going to the prof. devel person just because she is a more relatable, more pleasant woman. It is important to have direct relationships with the partners, and woman associates sometimes fail to develop these relationships because they find the more powerful male partners intimidating.
M
Threadjack:
I work in a small group (20 attys: 5 partners, 15 associates) at a large firm where there is rarely interaction with other groups. There are only a few female associates, one of whom I get along well with and the other is another story. She has made it very clear to everyone that she doesn’t like women in general, but she seems to have a personal grudge against me. We are both friends with a male associate in the office, and she frequently voices how much she dislikes me to our mutual friend. When I asked him why she doesn’t like me, he says that he asked her the same question but did not get an answer, just “I just don’t like her.”
Up until a few weeks ago, I was constantly trying to extend an olive branch by being friendly and asking her to lunch, etc. I’ve since stopped this behavior because she has started being outwardly mean to me in group settings–totally disregarding my presence, or when she acknowledges that I am there, she frequently rolls her eyes or cuts me off when I speak. I am also concerned that she is expressing her dislike for me to other associates in the group, which generally does not bother me, but since it is so small I get worried that it is more damaging than it would be in another setting.
So, corporettes, do you have any advice as to how I can play nice with her? Should I try to talk to her and ask what it is I have done to lead to this tension? Or, should I just leave it alone?
Ballerina girl
I would consider confronting her (scary as it may be) and saying something along the lines of “listen, I think we may have gotten off on the wrong foot. I’m not sure if I’ve offended you in some way, but I’d like to improve our work relationship.” If she rebuffs you, I’d tell her that she’s entitled to her opinions but that you’d appreciate it if she kept it to herself then.
Lyssa
Wow, how tacky of her! One question that I think makes a difference here is how is she generally regarded in the office- is she the sort of person who everyone knows is a pain, or do most people seem to get along with her and respect her opinions.
If she’s the first, I’d say that your best course of action is to ignore her and try to have as absolutely little to do with her as possible. If someone says something about her speaking badly about you, just laugh it off and say something like “Oh, you know how X is!”
But, if she’s in a position of any sort of respect, and could hurt your career (or if you find that you simply cannot avoid her), I think that you should see about trying to work this out. It sounds like you’ve already tried to talk to her, you could try it again, approach her directly and say something to the nature of “Hey, I understand that you seem not to like me all that much. If I’ve done something to offend you, I’m really sorry and didn’t mean it. Could I ask that you stop (doing things that she’s doing)? We don’t have to be friends or anything, but I’d like to get along.”
Hard to say whether that would have any effect, and she might just deny it and accuse you of making up stories or something. If you don’t do that or it doesn’t work, I think that you should get someone else involved. Find a person in some sort of authority, explain in very objective terms that she has been causing problems (not that she makes you feel bad, but she did X on Y day), and ask if that person would consider sitting down with both of you to talk about how you can improve the situation.
Good luck!
L
Ditto to this entire post. Very good advice. Caution on the last paragraph though, before getting someone else (partner? hr?) involved, consider whether you want to keep this job no matter what, or if you can’t work with the person any more, period, no matter what, or if the job is just meh. In the second and third cases, look for a new job first.
LMP
I think this is great advice, too, but would caution against being too apologetic before she tells you anything. In other words, fine to ask if you have done something to offend her, but don’t then go right into an apology and telling her that you didn’t mean it. It also cuts off the dialogue. Give her a chance to tell you whether she thinks you did something wrong and give yourself a chance to respond/explain before taking all the blame/responsibility. My bet is that she can’t come up with anything, so no sense apologizing (and giving her power over you) for no reason.
ADB_BWG
I had a similar situation (albeit in graduate school). I went to one professor, whom I trusted, and explained the situation. It was quite basic: “X doesn’t seem to like me and engages in this behavior. I don’t want or expect you (professor) to say or do anything, but I do want this behavior on the record should it escalate in the future.”
I knew this professor watched both of us for some time after the conversation. I kept my interactions with X civil and professional. X continued to engage in petty behavior. I don’t know if X was ever “spoken to,” but X’s effect on my progression in the program was neutralized.
YMMV.
Midori
Good advice. My guess is the gossiping isn’t earning her any respect and reflects more on her than it does on you. Letting her know that you’ve noticed her behavior might be enough to shame her into not acting like a junior high student.
AEK
Ugh, juvenile bullying. It’s very much about her, not you. How about asking her if she’s read (or giving her a copy of!) “Queen Bees and Wannabes” ?
http://rosalindwiseman.com/publications/queen-bees-and-wannabes/
Carrie
Lyssa has given you wise advice. It sounds to me that she’s just obnoxious and that will most likely shoot herself down before you have to worry about her too much.
Ignore it if you can. Take the high road. I am sorry that you are having to deal with someone who is stuck in junior high.
Ann
I disagree with going to her and to”work it out.” There is nothing to work out. She has stated “I just don’t like her” (meaning you). There’s nothing you’ve done to her; don’t internalize something that is her problem. This is something women do that drives me crazy. Women think “so-and-so doesn’t like me, it must be me” and they drive themselves crazy trying to figure out why, and trying to “fix” the relationship. Men think “what an a–hole that guy is” and move on with their lives.
In daily life, many professionals come across people they do not like. Usually people who are not trying to start drama keep that information to themselves. By actively acting like a jerk, and telling your mutual friend she dislikes you, this woman is calling attention to her dislike which I have only seen people do when they are trying to start something. I think your avenue of action is actually to do nothing. Try not to work with her if you can avoid it without being obvious. Stop the friendship overtures. Ignore her in meetings if you can. When she starts rolling her eyes, etc., give her one level look, say nothing, and keep on with what you were doing. Once she figures out you aren’t going to engage her, most likely she’ll move on to a new target. She may escalate but generally, then other people start noticing and either embarrass her, or they’ll put a stop to it.
Some “alpha girls” will start up with girls they feel are weak and will make good targets. Just like toddlers, women like this don’t divide attention into “positive” and “negative” categories. All attention validates them and their behavior whether it would externally be viewed as negative. The only way you can “win” with people like this is to disengage. If, however, the personal dislike spills over into something that starts affecting work – like she does something in front of a client – that’s when you go to a trusted HR person or manager and explain what happened and that you would like this person to address THIS INCIDENT (not the entire relationship) with the Queen of Mean. Generally once they get slapped on the wrist, they’ll back off for sure, because they know you’re not just going to roll over and take it.
Unfortunately there are people out there like this. Very honestly, it’s only as serious as you allow it to be. If you spend a lot of time tearing your hair out over the Mean Queen and her treatment of you, it will blow up into a big issue. If you can laugh, say to yourself “what an idiot” and then move on with your day/life you’ll be much happier. Don’t assign her, or this situation, more importance in your life than it warrants. It’s easier said than done, but really, people like this always end up melting down, blowing up, burning out or doing something else to punish themselves, way worse than anything you could ever do to punish them. Be level-headed, don’t engage or respond, and take the high road and the situation will eventually work itself out. Good luck.
J
This.
mbs
Exactly, well said. We had a similar situation at our small firm, but the person responded in kind, leading to an ongoing feud that made life miserable for the entire office, until one of them finally left the firm. Don’t engage, be professional and courteous without being deferential. Good luck!