ByKat Hours Updated
Comments 208 Comments

Thursday’s Workwear Report: Pleat Neck Flannel Dress

Our daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices. gray-work-dress-budget-2I spied the blue cotton version of this while shopping on lower Fifth Avenue recentlyish and was drawn to the pleats and other interesting details — but at the same time I thought it looked classic. (There are only a few sizes left of the blue; in person it's more of a slate gray-blue.) This flannel dress looks even better, though — love the black/whhite pattern. The dress is $119-$138, available in regular, tall, and petite sizes, but use code BRFAMILY to take 40% off today (the pictured dress comes down to $83). Pleat Neck Flannel Dress Psst: THE NORDSTROM FALL CLEARANCE SALE HAS OFFICIALLY STARTED! I'll round up some picks later this morning. This plus-size gray dress is in the sale and looks great. Seen a great piece you’d like to recommend? Please e-mail tps@corporette.com. (L-all)

Sales of note for 1/1/25 (HAPPY NEW YEAR!):

And some of our latest threadjacks here at Corporette (reader questions and commentary) — see more here!

Some of our latest threadjacks include:

208 Comments

  1. What are some good careers for people who are not particularly detail oriented but still ‘smart’?

    1. What kind of details do you struggle with? I can’t really think of a career for smart people where you don’t have to be detailed-oriented at all, but there are certainly careers where its more ok to make typos than it is in law. My husband is a professor in a STEM field at a top university and he is borderline dyslexic so his written work has a lot of typos and although he knows the rules of grammar and spelling, it takes him ages to proofread a short document because it just doesn’t come naturally to him the way it does to me. I don’t think he could be successful working on deadline in a large law firm, but he’s been very successful in academia where he can take his time and get proofreading assistance as necessary.

      1. This is incredibly offensive – “I don’t think he could be successful working on deadline in a large law firm.” Having a disability does not make someone unfit for the legal profession, period; certainly being dyslexic does not make someone ill suited to be a lawyer. Good proofreading does not make you a good lawyer. It might make you a good secretary or a paralegal, but it has exactly zero to do with your issue spotting, research, or analytical skills.

        Signed, a dyslexic biglaw litigator.

        1. Oh good grief, he’s said this himself that (from what he’s observed of my career) it’s not something he could do successfully. Absolutely there’s more to law than producing clean, typo-free work product and I think my husband certainly has the smarts and analytical skills to do the job, but I also think he’d get fired if he worked for the partners I work for because they expect documents to be produced quickly and almost error-free, and he couldn’t do that. I have seen people who are much better at producing typo-free work than my husband get absolutely reamed out for their relatively minor mistakes.
          If you have a disability and have sought a formal accommodation, then that’s obviously a different story and partners would understand what’s going on. My husband doesn’t have a disability and has not been diagnosed as dyslexic. A person who consistently produced written work product of the sort he does (intelligent and well-written but riddled with typos) would not last long in my large law firm, absent an explanation of why there were so many typos.

        2. “Incredibly offensive?” LOL. Get a grip. You may have some issues beyond dyslexia…..

        3. I disagree as we women do not have to be detail oriented to be successful if we are both articulate and attractive. Yes, men rule the roost, but we must parlay our assets to get ahead in a win win world.

      1. 100℅ disagree. If one of my consultants is not able to catch details, they won’t work with me again. Consultants needs to be beyond reproach, and attention to detail is part of that.

        That detail could mean a number in the analysis is incorrect, and the recommendation to our client if off.

      2. Also totally disagree with this. Much of the junior work at top firms is numbers, modeling and building spreadsheets and powerpoints/client presentations quickly.

        1. That’s fair for a junior level, but I think longer-term, it’s a great career for very smart people who aren’t “detail-oriented” enough to become the technical or execution expert. Yes there’s a ton of spreadsheet stuff to begin with, but it’s also a whole industry based on “Let me come up with some answers with limited data/inputs (i.e., details).”

          1. Actually, I’m in awe of how detail oriented partners I work with are. Making decisions with limited data involves identifying all relevant considerations and making the right assumptions for each.

    3. My sister is a PhD food scientist and I’d say that this is her personality type. She’s always moving a million miles a minute and can get a ton done in the lab. Her written work product is atrocious and barely passable. But she has great ideas, knows the science, and can get a lot done in a short time. She works at a start up in the bay area and they love her.

      1. This is surprising. To be a biomedical scientist doing bench work, you must be meticulous in the lab to be able to perform good experiments and analyze data appropriately. Experiments and their data must be reproducible, so protocols need to be precisely designed and followed. It can be quite tedious, and un-creative, actually….

        At the top level, you can be a big picture/idea person, without having to be meticulous about the nitty gritty. So definitely there are top idea people in industry even more than academia, like this. But to get there, you have to be meticulous and successful in your PhD and post-doctoral research.

    4. Honestly, senior level roles but those require years of being detail oriented to get there. I’m not naturally inclined toward being extremely detail oriented, but it’s something that you can train yourself to be. At some point you’ll hit a level where you are doing more of the thinking and others are doing more executing (and paying attention to the little details) but you can’t really get there without knowing how to focus on the details.

  2. The person who cleans our apartment just sent her clients an email announcing that she is transgender and transitioning, asking us to use her new name and feminine pronouns, and asking that we confirm that we received the email. We are not close (she works for a service), and in fact do not even see each other because we just leave keys in a lockbox for her. Is there something I can say that is supportive beyond just “thanks for letting us know”? Her email asked that we not tell anyone outside of our households because it may put her in danger, and I imagine the email required some courage to send in the first place.

    1. “Thanks for letting us know. We’re happy to follow the requests in your email”

      She’s probably just looking for confirmation that you’re not going to tell the world.

  3. Any resources for starting a diversity committee at work? I’m a fairly junior in house lawyer and realized we only have 2 minorities in leadership roles in the company. I would only start a diversity group if there is the potential to lead to change – but I’m not sure what that would entail. Any thoughts?

    1. You might have already considered this, but get one of the minorities in leadership on board.

      1. Indeed. This is not something you want to stick your neck out for unless you have the full, unqualified support of people in power before you raise it officially. Backchannel first.

      2. This, but I would also try to get a white man or men in leadership roles on board too.

    2. Go to HR and ask for help. Chances are HR is already working on it and would love your input and suggestions.

  4. After throwing out drugstore hose with runs like they were chewing gum, I upgraded to the Donna Karan ones that have been recommended here. No luck; I got two pairs, and neither one lasted the day. Any recommendations for nude hose that will stand up to long days and a measure of clumsiness?

    1. I had the same problem with the Donna Karan hose. Hanes Silk Reflections aren’t quite as invisible, but they last longer.

    2. I wear hose quite a bit and have had good luck with Calvin Klein and Commando (they do make nude hose that you can get at Saks).

    3. Buy larger sizes – you won’t have to pull on them as much, so it’s probably less likely you’ll get a run putting them on or off.

    4. I can usually get Wolford hose to last a few months for me, before they get really stretched out. They’re expensive, and I hate paying that much for hose, but I think that for the price per wear (way more than 20x per pair of tights) they’re less expensive for me than the drugstore brand. However, I’m also cognizant of being careful (like, I put a wrap over my legs at my desk because I’m cold, but even if I wasn’t that cold I would be trying to avoid snags with drawers or rough spots).

      1. I bought some Wolford hose awhile back at the local retail outlet and they seem to be wearing quite well as well as looking and feeling great. I will definitely buy them again. They are pricey but worth it.

    5. I do $10 Hanes Alive now because I have the same issue. They’ve held up pretty well. Consider yourself lucky because I decided to try upgrading to Wolford pantyhose last year and ripped through 2 pairs in under 3 hours each :(

        1. To be fair, they felt AMAZING and totally different than other hose I’d worn. I really wish I could have had them last longer. I think other people on here have had much better experiences, but I seem to just be more destructive :(

    8. Walgreens carries a brand called West Loop that I love. It’s fairly durable and I think decent quality.

    9. I wear hose every day. I find the european brands hold up better and use Denier 15 .. Filodoro is my go – to; the Aurora 15 brand. Usually available in Canada and Europe. I buy via mail at shapings dot com. Not a shill.

      Also, I wear hose for evenings and get a sheerer form. Is sheerer is a word?

    10. My longest (non)running hose have been Spanx brand, and the Assets by Spanx hose available at Target are a more affordable and almost-as-durable alternative.

    11. Commando are comfortable and hold up well (cannot understand why other companies cannot figure out the waistband!!!). Still have to be careful. Hate to admit it, but I wear Leggs Active Support under pants from time to time because as a runner they really help with recovery (and they are a nice warm layer in the winter). Have also had good luck with Spanx and Pretty Polly.

  5. Random makeup rec. I’m a lipstick newbie–I usually stick to very nude/pale shades since I’m kind of clueless and always forget to reapply. But I’ve been trying to update my look and using more vibrant/darker shades, but reapplying constantly was really annoying.

    But a friend of mine recommended this clear lipliner to me; he said to use it all over the lip before putting on lipstick, and now I have zero feathering and a bold red lip lasts through eating and drinking. I apply once in the morning and I don’t need to touch up until 3 or 4.

    Such a super easy fix for me, and it’s just $5. I do have to order from Amazon or Drugstore.com, since the local CVS or Walgreens never seems to have it.
    http://ow.ly/2lRa305OEEU

  6. It’s been a year since my parent died. My family is strained. There is a remaining parent alive . In past versions of the “family trust” I was executrix. Family has not followed through with giving me updated docs, so I am certain my status has changed. No information about probate, nothing. Am I supposed to receive information? Is there a way for me to find out what’s gone on? I don’t want to be liable for anyone’s debts vis a vis the trust?

    Flummoxed.

    No, I can’t contact the “family.” They are unresponsive.

    1. Contact the state bar association. We regularly get circulars asking if anyone has a will for XYZ. As a child of the deceased parent, you may be entitled to view a copy of the will.

    2. I’d start with contacting the clerk of probate court and seeing if anything has been filed.

      1. Great advice. Do I just give them a ring on the phone, or via the pay-up-front web page? Clueless. Thanks oh so much!

    4. Check to see if the court posts case information. At least in civil and other courts in my state you can search by case number or by case name if you pay a small fee

  7. My friend left two weeks ago to a foreign country where her family lives to support her father during a long but semi-routine surgery. There have been many complications and her father is not doing well. She has extended her flight twice now and is planning on returning next week (though she may have to extend the flight again depending on her father’s health). She may lose her father. Her son and husband live about 30 min away from us. Son is 2 years old. Husband’s mother/father flew in to help take care of the child.

    Is there anything I can do to help support her? It’s been hard to communicate with her since she is in a remote area of the foreign country. Normally, I would volunteer to help take care of kiddo (I have an 18 month old myself), but seems they might have that covered.

    1. Do you have a way to get in touch with husband directly? I’d offer to take the kid for a day- pick up and return. They might all be getting tired. And bring food by.

    2. I’d reach out to her, even if via a form of communication you two normally don’t use (email, for example). I’m pretty introverted and in that situation really treasured contact from my friends telling me they were thinking of me. Stories about, say, ridiculous things their cats had done were also a welcome distraction.

    3. I had to stay in a different state with one of my ill parents for a week at a time (me and my siblings rotated.) I really appreciated friends who reached out to my husband and invited him and the kids to dinner at their house, or offered to take the kids to the park for an hour. We also had friends drop off dinner or gift cards )(the kids especially loved the gift cards to the frozen yogurt place.) My husband was perfectly able to take care of the kids while I was away (and to feed them and buy them ice cream), but it was so nice to have friends who just showed up for us during this time. It helped me to know that friends were looking out for my little family.

      1. You make a good point about feeling that people were looking out for you. Last year we spent two weeks out of town during my MIL’s final illness. No kids, but people offered to check on our house, water plants, etc, and that really meant so much.

  8. Can anyone recommend anything similar in size and shape to the Lo & Sons Pearl? It’s a bit out of my budget. Leather or waxed canvas is fine, no need for the double pouch that the Pearl has. Carrying a Orla Kiely travel pouch now and it’s looking a bit worse for wear – I was considering replacing it with the same but thought I’d ask for recommendations.

    Really, I want something with a crossbody strap, that will fit wallet, phone, keys, and a small paperback or a kindle.

    1. This bag at Old Navy actually fits the bill almost perfectly – http://oldnavy.gap.com/browse/product.do?cid=1051887&vid=1&pid=596256002

      I’ve had the smaller version for at least a year (maybe 2?), and it’s a little too small for a Kindle so I don’t think the smaller size would work for you, but it has held up well to regular weekend use and I like it a lot.

      If you want real leather and can spend a bit more, TJMaxx online has some good similar options:

      http://tjmaxx.tjx.com/store/jump/product/handbags-handbags-crossbody-bags/Leather-Accordion-Crossbody/1000145920?colorId=NS1003519&pos=1:16&N=1078870626

      http://tjmaxx.tjx.com/store/jump/product/handbags-handbags-crossbody-bags/Mini-Square-Leather-Crossbody/1000144375?colorId=NS1003537&pos=1:24&N=1078870626

      http://tjmaxx.tjx.com/store/jump/product/handbags-handbags-crossbody-bags/Ali-Top-Zip-Leather-Crossbody/1000164392?colorId=NS1003537&pos=1:39&N=1078870626

      http://tjmaxx.tjx.com/store/jump/product/handbags-handbags-crossbody-bags/Leather-Large-Crossbody-With-Tassel/1000161870?colorId=NS1003537&pos=1:46&N=1078870626

      1. Thanks, those look awesome. I think the Lucky one looks great. I’ve gotten about 18 months of daily wear from the Orla Kiely and it’s just looking dingy. Might try some Oxy on it as a last resort.

  9. What do y0u use to sign off on emails? I’ve been using Best, or Regards, person in instances where there is a cordial relationship looking for something more warm?

    1. I find “All the Best” or “Kindest Regards” to be a little more warm, and I use them regularly when appropriate. Personally, I find that “Sincerely” also feels a little more warm to me on the receiving end, but I don’t seem to have cause to use it frequently myself in email.

    2. I use “Warmly” and “Be well” occasionally, but I work in a “soft” relationship-heavy industry, so YMMV.

    3. “Thanks” is normal in my org. If I used “best” or “regards” that would atract attention

    4. I usually say “Thanks” or “Best” for friendly relationships. I only use “regards” in more formal letters where I specifically do NOT want to indicate warmth (e.g., to opposing counsel or a government agency). If I’m doing a lot of back-and-forth with a client and trying to develop a relationship, I will try to say something relevant – “Have a great weekend,” “Safe travels,” etc.

      1. I use either “Thanks” or “Sincerely.” Agree that where there is a relationship, I’ll add “Have a great weekend.” I see “Best” once in a while and have always found it odd.

      2. Pretty much this for me, although I try to only use thanks if I am asking for a response/something.

        Sometimes, I don’t use anything. Really depends on the relationship I have with the person or the relationship I am trying to cultivate.

      3. Funny thing- I was directed by my mentor not to use Thanks unless there was something specifically done for me. Esp if it was a follow-up or something along that line. I guess YMMV?

        1. This is something I’m trying to work on. I realized that I end most emails with “thanks” so I’ve been trying to use it when I’m asking for something or thanking someone for something they did.

    6. I do work with a lot of Candians who use “Cheers” which I always thought was a bit funny; like we were at a bar toasting.

  10. My law school is having an event geared to attract government lawyers, although anyone can attend. At this event, they are giving out, for the first time, a public service award to someone who has had a distinguished career in public service. The problem is the person they are awarding this to was a public servant, but has now been in the private sector for about five years. This person is a great lawyer, but s/he is no longer a public servant and hasn’t been for years. This award could have been given to a whole host of alumni that are still working in public service. I just think this sends the wrong message, particularly when I already think the law school has a problem with how they view government lawyers. As a public servant, am I wrong to be highly offended by this?

    1. Well, I wouldn’t say you’re “wrong” to be “highly” offended, but it might be sort of a waste of energy. Is there someone at the school you can write to to express your displeasure with their selection?

      1. I was thinking about sending an email to someone at the law school about it. I just didn’t know if that would come off as ridiculous or not. It just rubs me the wrong way I guess. “Highly” offended might have overstated how I feel, but I am annoyed.

        1. It’s going to come across as ridiculous if it turns out this person did important/landmark work that you’re not aware of. Unless you are very sure of your facts, as well as your fitness to render an opinion on who is deserving and who is not as a general matter, I would not encourage this. Particularly if you are a newish graduate.

    2. As a government lawyer, I would be offended and I wouldn’t attend. I get that someone can have a great career in public service and then move to the private sector. But for the very first award? Sends the wrong message.

    3. Are you able to say what tier of law school this is and what the student body typically does for their careers? I went to a top 10 type of law school that viewed public service as a means to an end to be a feeder back to the private sector. I happen to agree with this view and have viewed my govt service times the same way — a holding period until I can get a higher role in the private sector. So if you sent that email to my school, sure someone will read it; but it would be taken as ridiculous bc they expect their students and alumni to realize that they are the type of school that wants as many biglaw/midlaw partners and in house counsel as possible and you do govt service to get those positions sometimes.

    4. How long was the person’s career in public service? I think it makes a difference if the honoree spent 30 years in public service before spending the last 5 in the private sector versus an honoree who spent 10 years in public service and the last 5 in the private sector. It would also make a difference to me if that person’s contributions during their time in public service really were remarkable.

      1. Sometimes people leave public service b/c they have kids in college, just need more $, have a spouse with a career move, etc. Like with a real sense of heartbreak and loss (e.g., federal judges who make < first year associates). They have not necessarily become The Man and likely counsel clients to comply with the law, play by the rules, etc.

        I have been in the public sector and am not now in it but would like to return or teach at some point.

        I think that someone getting an award for public service has likely earned it even if their employer is different now (and many people in the private sector still teach, mentor, and have civic/bar involvement in addition, so not quite sure that one rules out the other on a current basis, either).

        1. My mentor left his role in public service after just over two years because, as much as he loved it (and was amazing at it), he couldn’t financially make it work with young kids in a HCOL market. He’s in a JD preferred position now, and while he’s loving it, I think he misses the work he did very much and is still extremely respected in our community. He would have stayed if he could- is it something like this?

        2. I’m sure this is my own bias showing, but I would be annoyed if someone received an award like this after leaving public service too. Almost everyone (except maybe the independently wealthy) has demands they must meet, bills they must pay, kids they must raise, etc. and those are all legitimate reasons for finding higher paying work. But those who are dedicated to public service sacrifice so that they can do this type of work. I am a public defender with three kids. I have been a public defender for 10 years. Me, and therefore also my family, make sacrifices so that I can continue to do this work. My fellow public defenders also have the same responsibilities but chose to stay. These are the people who should be awarded, in my opinion.

          1. But I don’t think going into the private sector after spending time in public service negates the work you did or the contribution you made or the sacrifices of your family while you were in public service.

          2. + 1 million

            For the first time they offer this award – they could 100% find someone still in the public service to receive it.

          3. Thanks, this was my thought exactly. This person left the public sector after about 15 years for a really big paycheck in the private sector. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that and it doesn’t negate the person’s work in public service BUT I really think it should go to someone who is still in public service. It’s the first time they’ve awarded this award so it literally could go to any alumni in public service.

  11. What are your favourite Jardigans? I have the Lafleur one but looking for other brands… hopefully a little less expensive?

    1. Following for suggestions. I couldn’t justify the cost of the MM LaFleur. (Loved it in theory though!)

    2. I just have the MM one. I normally never spend that much on clothes, but I’m totally in love with it and wear it multiple times a week. Can’t recommend it highly enough

    3. I’m not sure these are really Jardigans, but maybe similar idea. Knit blazers.

      These have been posted on here before as favorites by folks – both for style, very reasonable price.

      http://shop.nordstrom.com/s/olivia-moon-knit-blazer-regular-petite/3679610?origin=keywordsearch-personalizedsort&fashioncolor=NAVY

      Also search on Nordstrom for Caslon one button blazer. Very inexpensive – some on sale now for $39.90!

      The downside of these for me is they are long sleeves, while I prefer the 3/4 sleeves of the Lafleur Jardigans. You can see in the pix of the Nordstrom knit jackets, the models all push up their sleeves to 3/4.. which is not a great polished look for work.

      There is also a version at Macy’s that was posted about here in the past. Not sure if I remember the name, but also quite inexpensive and well reviewed. Was it the Alfani shawl collar blazer with 3/4 sleeves? Perhaps others will remember and post.

  12. Just wanted to check in with the woman who posted on Friday about her husband hitting her, I hope you/she is doing OK.

      1. Men who hit women should be hog-tied and beaten with a lulav. That is what dad threatened to do when he found out what Sheketovits wanted me to do. FOOEY on men like that!

  13. I bought a pair of Frye boots during the recent sale (Melissa Button boots are down to $279? yes please) – I have some of their shoes already so I knew they were hard on the bottom but geez. Any recommendations for thin insoles to just make them a little more comfortable? No orthotic qualities needed.

    1. These do have orthotic qualities, but I have used blue Superfeet insoles in Fryes. Very comfortable.

  14. I’ve lost a lot of weight and am looking in to having plastic surgery to remove the extra skin around my stomach and hips. I’ve already been to a consult so know what to expect, but looking for stories from anybody else who had it done? What was unexpectedly hard or easy?

    I’m hoping to have it done late one week and be off completely the next week, then start teleworking the week after that.

    1. Would you mind saying how much you were quoted? I think this may be in my future.

    2. I have no experience with your particular surgery but had a rhinoplasty years ago and can honestly say it was one of the best decisions of my life. My confidence shot through the roof. Just a word of encouragement that you should go for it, if you feel strongly enough about it! Good luck.

    4. I had it done about three years ago. It was pretty horrific but not really any more so than I’d expected. I don’t really want to go into the gory details on the board but if you want to chat more, email me at seniorattorney1 at gmail and I will be happy to tell you anything you want to know.

      Bottom line is I am thrilled with the results and am very happy I had it done. And also? Cosmetic surgeons lie about recovery time. I took four weeks off work even though he told me I’d be good to go after two, and that was a great decision on my part. I wouldn’t have been able to even telework for two full weeks, I don’t think.

  15. Posted on moms site but realized I might get more answers here:

    Family photo wardrobe help! Starting with me! Suggestions for shirts or dresses with three quarter sleeves? Or just flattering short sleeves? Im a size 4 or 6 but nursing so button downs are tough.

    Im looking for a cute neutral or blue dress for a 20 month old as well. Not worried about price!

    So help? And can some of you tell me how you do outfits for photos? Two adults, girl toddler, boy baby for reference. Im hoping to coordinate but not match…

    1. I wore this top for a family photo last year and the pictures came out well. I’m a size 4 too. This is 3/4 sleeved and comes in several nice, bright colors. I think the general rec is that neutral colors or minor prints are best, nothing too busy.

      I don’t remember mine being so pricey, though. check around for sales.

      https://www.amazon.com/Three-Dots-Sleeve-Light-British/dp/B015NM6ZLM/ref=sr_1_6?s=apparel&srs=3045043011&ie=UTF8&qid=1478183916&sr=8-6&keywords=boat%2Bneck&th=1

      1. Nice basic top!

        Their sizing looks v. small. Did you find that to be the case? I normally wear XS tops at most places, and their sizing puts me at a medium.

        What size worked for you?

        1. It runs small, but it does stretch out. I think I ordered a size small and that worked out well.

    2. Order all kids clothes from Land’s End. They can be from casual to nice, but not so prescious that you’ll worry about ruining (and/or not resuse after photo shoot). This way, things will likely all work together for the kids (similar looks / colors, but not overly matchy).

      They have a lot of kids things that are like Hanna Anderson but so much less expensive (and good enough to hand down).

      For you . . . LE’s boxiness may be a blessing. In the past, I’ve had good luck with their SS and 3/4 sleeve tops and I believe you can sort by sleeve length. OR buy a dress — simiplifies what you wear and your overall line. Also, maybe Boden (shirt or their tunic dresses).

    3. Indeed, but my neighbor’s fireworks at midnight in our state that is not Illinois was a little much.

      1. The fireworks here were at 1 am (I’m in Eastern time) and we are more than 120 miles from Chicago. Absolutely ridiculous! I’m happy for lifelong Cubs fans but the national mania about this is crazy.

    6. I’m not much of a baseball fan and certainly don’t have strong ties to either city, but I’m very excited for you, Cubs fans! Enjoy the feeling! :)

    7. As a lifelong fan of the Leafs (last Cup win in 1967), this victory gives me hope. Woo!!!

    9. I’m an Indians fan from childhood loyalty, and I’m still happy for the Cubs. What a game!

  17. I think people have posted some suggestions for mental health services here in the past. Anyone know of a good walk-in clinic in NYC to do an initial assessment for depression? I spoke to NYC Well and they gave me a few places (including a clinic that I’m at now with the friend in question) but was hoping to find a place that others had a experience using. Thanks for any specific recs!

    1. The initial assessment is pretty standard – I think there is a list of standard questions and you talk through them and if you answer a certain way then you are diagnosed. It’s a lot like taking a quiz in Cosmo. I’d go to any clinic for the initial assessment and spend energy on finding a good therapist, and a good psychiatrist if you don’t respond well to the initial meds prescribed.

    2. If you have a PCP, they can usually do an initial referral- it’s a questionnaire (which you can also find online) and then they just ask you about the answers.

      1. *Initial assessment, not referral. Although they can also probably make a referral.

    1. I came here to see if anyone else was celebrating! WHAT A NIGHT!!!!!! WHAT A SERIES!!!

      1. That was honestly the most stressful 4 hours ever. But so worth getting to snuggle with my 10 year old and get the biggest hug ever from him when they won. Utter insanity.

      2. Marvelous! Love that IT came true… and is a locale where the Cubbies’ fans could fill the stands in person.

    2. I don’t even follow baseball and yet I was SO SUPER STRESSED watching it last night and so, so, so excited when they won. Cubs were the first MLB game I went to that I actually remember, at Wrigley Field, and so, while I can’t say I’m a fan, it’s cool to see them do well. And my dad was over the moon he was so excited, he loves the Cubs.

    3. I’m not a Cubs fan (have my own team in my city) but I was pulling for them soooooo hard in the series and I swear last night took 10 years off my life…and then put them right back on. YAY!

    2. Honestly, I could wear that in my office with a blazer or cardigan and no one would blink an eye. That doesn’t mean I WOULD, but I could if I wanted to.

      Keep in mind I have seen heavy material shiny track pants and a metal band t-shirt here, so . . .

      1. Metal band t-shirts are always work-OK.

        Did anyone else see the recent WSJ article about how you can now get Black Flag t-shirts in the 100s of dollars at Barneys now?

        2. I actually googled that. $265!!!! Clearly in alignment with the message of Black Flag. Made more sense when I got to the part where the logo is owned by a record company.

    3. ALSO, the “funnel neck sweater dress.” That thing is so short I thought they’d forgotten pants.

  20. I had a date on Tuesday night with a guy who won’t work romantically for a number of reasons, but he was honestly one of the funniest and most fun people I’ve ever hung out with. I’d love to hang out with him again as friends. While we didn’t address it directly, I’m reasonably sure he understands we wouldn’t work as a couple. That said, how do I ask to see him again while making it clear it’s platonic? I’d hate for there to be an awkward misunderstanding.

    1. I want to know reasons! ;) I think you could always ask, but most guys I know would probably not really be interested in acquiring platonic girl friends, although they would probably say yes to be polite.

      1. Haha, well, it was an eHarmony date, and I guess we matched on those 29 dimensions of compatibility or whatever, but we didn’t match on basically any level in real life haha. I’m outdoorsy, he’s indoorsy; I’m athletic, he’s a couch potato; he’s a frequent world traveler, I haven’t been outside the States in years (student loans are REAL, man). And we take pretty significantly different approaches to religion. So, not mate potential, but so much fun!

        1. So have him pay for the trip to France where you can both walk through vineyards and debate faith.

        2. Other than the religion, I wouldn’t say any of these are dealbreakers. Most people I know have pretty different hobbies than their spouses. If someone is funny and kind, I definitely wouldn’t overlook them just because they like hiking and travel and you’re not into those things.

          1. Agree. It’s interesting that she says he’s a couch potato but he travels frequently. Regardless, I doubt it’s obvious to him it won’t work and you wanting to be friends is going to come off at best like a polite brush off and at worst a manipulative attempt to keep him on standby.

          2. You want to be able to do stuff with your partner. I think she’s smart to find someone with similar interests so they can do things together.

          3. Totally disagree, H. My husband is really athletic (he plays several sports competitively) and I’m a totally non-athletic homebody who loves reading, writing, baking, etc. The closest I’ve ever gotten to athletics is yoga classes (without my husband). We have a great relationship because we have the same values, similar sense of humor and just make each other laugh a lot and love being around each other. I think most people will find plenty of common ground through daily life and you don’t need to have the same hobbies (and of course you can have individual hobbies while still having some hobbies or interests that are shared). I’m generally of the school of thought that if you don’t click with someone you should move on, but it really sounds to me like OP is writing this guy off too quickly. Common interests will develop if you have chemistry, but chemistry can’t be forced and is unlikely to develop just because you like the same activities.

          4. Totally agree with everything that Anonymous at 12:26 wrote. My husband and I have completely different hobbies, are not really that interested in doing each others hobbies and interests other than just to support the other person occasionally/for fun. We still hang out all the time together, and have a lot to talk about because we’re not doing the very same thing all the time.

          5. Nthing this. In some ways I actually prefer that boyfriend and I have some exclusively individual interests and some mutual ones, rather than being into everything the other is.

          6. And your friends will also be grateful you and your new boyfriend are not stuck at the hip doing everything together.

            I can’t stand couples who have no individual interests and only do things as a couple. It’s not healthy!!!

    2. I’d wait a little bit, until it’s clear you’re not going to be romantically coupled up, and then invite him out to a group event with friends (not other couples).

      1. Why would he understand you wouldn’t work as a couple? Why do you think he wants more friends?

        1. Why does he want to spend time going out with you platonically instead of dating other women he is more compatible with?

          You could invite him to a party with other friends to see if he falls in love with your other single girlfriends, but don’t keep basically dating him one on one when you just want to be friends.

    4. I wouldn’t respond well to the situation in the reverse… I’m on dating websites/apps to find a partner, not to find new friends. Is it possible that you’re jumping to the conclusion that you wouldn’t be good mates too soon? I think if you hit it off with someone so well initially, it’s always worth exploring it more (and not as friends).

      1. I agree– the incompatibilities you listed (except religion; that could be a big one) seem surmountable if chemistry develops. If you thought he was really fun and funny, you might find yourself attracted to him after a few more dates. But I agree that the friend thing won’t work here.

        1. Even religion. I’m a practicing Christian and my husband is an athiest, and we’re happy. Obviously if either one of us was militant about it, it probably wouldn’t work, but depending on the rest of a relationship dynamic, it can be fine.

    5. Give him 3 dates. Your deal breakers are not important ones except possibly the religion thing. But is that really a deal breaker for you?

      Come on… Life is short!

      Give him 3…

      1. +1.

        “I’m outdoorsy, he’s indoorsy;” – so, do your outdoorsy hobbies with friends and do your indoorsy stuff with him (also, based on personal experience, sometimes people are indoorsy by default and may very well graduate to “mildly outdoorsy” (i.e. up for light day hikes and other “beginner” type stuff) with a partner who can act as an outdoors guide

        “I’m athletic, he’s a couch potato;” – awesome! You get an official cheering squad at races, and you never have to deal with conflicting training schedules!

        “he’s a frequent world traveler, I haven’t been outside the States in years (student loans are REAL, man).” – do you actively dislike travel, or is it purely a financial thing? Because I am in your shoes travel-wise, but if a world traveler popped into my life tomorrow, you can bet I’d be hopping on that, because I may not currently travel as much as I’d like, but I certainly want to! (Also, if the answer is “I actually don’t like travel,” there’s plenty of room for compromise on this – I have a friend who travels about 3x as much as her husband. She saves the more adventurous trips (say, backpacking in Asia for 3 weeks) for friends, and he goes with her on the trips that are closer to his comfort level (for example, a week in a European city in a fully-updated Air BnB or 3+ star hotel).)

        “And we take pretty significantly different approaches to religion” – this one is a possible dealbreaker, I’ll grant, but there are also plenty of mixed-faith couples who absolutely make it work, so I don’t think it’s a date-one dealbreaker with someone you are otherwise into.

        1. +1. I am a person who likes travel a lot more than my husband does. We do one big trip together every year and beyond that I satisfy my travel needs by doing trips with girlfriends, trips with my parents, and solo trips. Would I be thrilled if he woke up tomorrow and told me he loves travel and wants to do more couples trips? Sure. But I’ve made do, and I’m glad I didn’t pass up a great guy just because he doesn’t’ share this particular hobby.

    6. You can’t assume he somehow just knows you won’t work out romantically if you didn’t explicitly talk about that. I think you can ask him if he wants to hang out being just friends but you have to be ready to accept that he’ll say no and maybe be a little ticked off.

    7. I didn’t want to mention this because it seemed shallow to list when there are all the other factors that are important to me, but he’s also exceptionally heavy. I’m guessing his photos were a year or two out of date. When I say I’m athletic and healthy and outdoorsy, I mean I go to the gym several nights per week and cook healthy meals and spend my weekends on the trails. He does none of those things. That’s a significant lifestyle difference. Plus religion, which is very important to me. So yes, I’m quite sure I’m not interested in him romantically.

      And here’s something I’ve been wondering about. I’m a friendly, outgoing person and can strike up good conversations with lots of people. To me, chemistry is that spark of attraction with flirtation, not just an upbeat conversation. It seems lots of other people define chemistry to mean just a good conversation. I’d love to hear others’ thoughts on it.

      1. I have the same problem that you describe in your last paragraph. I can talk to anyone – and enjoy it. That doesn’t mean I want to date them, or that the experience was particularly significant or memorable to me. But it leads to a lot of circumstances in which someone thinks we had a great date, and I was like, that was a perfectly fine way to spend a few hours, but I’m never going to want to kiss you.

      2. I think if you had said you weren’t physically attracted to him right off the bat, you might have gotten slightly different answers.

        For me, chemistry is the amazing conversation, the feeling of intense physical attraction, the feeling that you don’t want to leave this person’s presence, etc. I think I have a good sense when the other person is feeling it too, and that is important to me in the whole chemistry equation.

        I have had that spark with people upon first meeting (in fact had it last week), but it doesn’t mean the person I have a spark immediately is someone that would be good for me in a relationship! The FWB I have now – we talked for a while before I felt the pull to him. By the time we were done talking though, it was clear that neither of us wanted the conversation to end and that we were both attracted to each other.

      3. So you don’t like him because he’s fat? That’s fine and not shallow, but don’t pretend that it’s something else. Leave him alone.

        1. +100000000

          You really can’t have your cake and eat it too, OP. If you don’t have a romantic interest in this man, leave him alone.

          1. Totally agree. It’s fine to be not attracted to or not romantically interested in someone, but it’s really unfair to give that person hope by suggesting you become platonic friends when you know he’s into you.

        2. +1 I’ll bet this guy has been friend-zoned more than once because of his weight. Given the context in which you met, I think he would assume that you continue to be interested in dating if you continue to be in contact with him. If you make it clear you aren’t interested in dating, he will know that when you say “we’re too different – I’m outdoorsy and cook healthy meals” you mean “you’re too fat for me to date” which would likely be hurtful. He probably already has a lot of friendships given his great personality, and is on eHarmony because he’s looking for a romantic relationship. Respect that, and leave him alone.

      4. I am not surprised to hear you say that (see you write it)? Your answers all seemed to show non-deal breaker things, but you seem level-headed and most definitely NOT romantically interested in the guy.

        Invite him to a Christmas party if you want him as a friend. But yeah, the reason you don’t want him is because you go “yuck” at the thought of him as a sexual being.

        That’s fine. You’re attracted to what you’re attracted to.

      5. Oh, so you don’t want to date him because he’s fat, but you want to waste his time being a friend, which will obvi be confusing and hurtful? Absolutely not. That’s really rude. If he’s too fat for you to date you aren’t entitled to the pleasure of his company.

  21. I love the look of this dress and was so excited to see it, but when I clicked the link and saw it was BR, I got so disappointed. I haven’t shopped BR in a few seasons because their quality has fallen so far! (And their styling was really off for a while, too.) Is quality any better this season? Has anyone seen this dress in person?

    1. I’ve had good luck with BR quality this season. I bought a great dress earlier this season that even has little built snaps to keep your bra strap from slipping! The fit was great for me (pearish).

    2. I’ve had good luck with BR quality this season. I bought a great dress earlier this season that even has little built snaps to keep your bra strap from slipping! The fit was great for me (pearish).

  22. A man just got off the elevator on my floor wearing a Trump button. 3 inches big, pinned to his button down. Did not hold back my sharp inhalation of breath.

    2. 538 now has no “extra” states going for HRC (meaning if she loses any states that are currently blue on their map, she loses). And the tipping point state (which means she’ll lose the election if she loses it) is NH and new polls just came out showing Trump ahead there. GAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH. I would say I want this nightmare to be over, but I’m afraid a much bigger nightmare is going to begin on Nov. 9.

      1. I was a bit overtired but also stressed about this and literally started crying while repeating “BUT MOM, OBAMACARAE” last night when she was trying to calm me down after I freaked out when she said he might win.

        I want it to be over but if he’s elected, nevermind, this election season can go on forever. Actually, if Obama could just stay in office, that would be the best scenario.

      2. I teach politics in the UK and we start each lecture with a quick discussion of the big news stories and my students are tormenting me with the polling numbers. They were in hysterics because as we were talking about it, I was curling my body up. By the time they were done, I was practically in a fetal position and finally cut them off and reminded them we were talking about their dysfunctional country today, not mine. I am tempted to hide out for the next 5 days, I can’t talk about it anymore.

        1. Honestly I think most of the schadenfreude in the UK at the moment is sheer relief in seeing someone else’s country falling apart. Today’s High Court decision has put a massive smile on my face though!

        2. What an interesting job! Do the students have a lot of opinions on the U.S. system?

      3. Today’s LA Times had a story that included something like “Democrats seem to be more susceptible to pre-election night terrors than Republicans.” That made me laugh even though I’d been up all night with pre-election night terrors…

    3. It’s scary to think my state might be the deciding factor. Here is what I see. There are far more Trump signs up than HRC signs. The Trump supporters are loud and vocal here. But, our state is split in an interesting way. The north is all rural and mostly republican. The cities have a lot of Mass transplants that tend to vote democrat, making the native NH residents pretty angry. Here is the biggest thing though. Students attending college here, even if they come from other states, are allowed to vote here or in their home state. Their choice. If all the democratic students at Dartmouth, St. Anselm, University of NH, Plymouth State and Southern NH University vote in state rather than absentee from their home state, the democrats will win.

      This law has been fought over big time for years and years but college students may still register and vote here if they live here during the school year. If anyone knows a college student in NH, please remind them to vote here, not home!

      1. Here is more info.
        http://sos.nh.gov/nhsos_content.aspx?id=12816

        The law has been revised a few times over the years and may be a bit stricter now but it still applies. I voted here for the first time in 1999 as a college student. My car was registered in Mass, my license was Mass, my parents lived in Mass, I was on my parents health insurance and car insurance and my parents claimed me as a dependent. Under NH law though, for voting purposes, I was domiciled in NH if I was a full time college student living in the dorms. The Secretary of State link here suggests that car insurance could be a problem if voting in NH but that was not an issue in 1999 at least.

      2. Also, the polls don’t usually take into consideration the students living in NH.

        1. Why do you say that? I believe polls normally take all demographics into account. College students are a key demographic in many swing states, so polls that ignored them would be fairly meaningless across the board.

          1. At least when I was in college, I don’t recall being polled. We didn’t get call or emails asking who we were voting for. At home I get that stuff all the time. The polls might account for students but they likely don’t know how many will vote in their home state versus NH. We have same day registration here too so many students register the day that they vote. Many students don’t bother voting unless it’s a presidential election so it’s not just freshmen same day registering. There is really know way to know how many of them are going to vote here and how many are democrats or republicans.

          2. Students are really difficult to poll, since they tend not to have landlines and do tend to be flaky. On the other hand, I believe that once they pick up the phone they’re more likely to complete the questionnaire.

  23. Can we talk about holiday parties? What do we think of velvet? I have a solid cranberry fit and flare that ties in the back from talbots last winter. It has a v neck. I recall there is a sewn in tie-in-the-back “belt” How do I NOT look like a little girl on Christmas Eve? My wild greying collarbone length hair is thin and all I can do is pull back one or both sides and maybe use a curling wand on it. I wear glasses; no options there.

    Thoughts?

    2. That sounds like a great dress for someone with your hair color. Can you remove the tie-in-the-back belt? If it’s just sewn in at the side seams, that’s an easy fix. Then add a wide black belt that’s a “tougher” look than velvet, wear black booties or boots, and you’ve cut the little-girl factor.

    3. If you don’t mind getting it altered, consider having it changed to a pencil skirt (if that works with your body type). Curl your hair, wear some awesome big-girl shoes (booties or cocktail heels if you need extra-dressy), and do a bold cranberry lip. You will look stunning!

      1. Aw thanks. I’m a very curvy hourglass so I need the fit and flare; DH says it really emphasizes my great legs. So sky high stilettos of course. Just thought I was missing something. Cheers.

    4. Jewelry! Dangly earrings (less chunky and more delicate is in, but a single dangly drop don’t go out of style) and a subtle, coordinating necklace with the bow removal and stilettos will cut the little-girl factor. Can you pull back your hair into a chignon? Glasses are tricky with a lot of jewelry – are they big or more delicate?

      1. I routinely wear dangle earrings (not delicate, the Alexis Bittar) and some sort of necklace or pendant to work. They are all shorter lengths so that they don’t go into the decolletage nor give the waterfall effect (as I call it) over the girls as I walk. So that’s a go. Sparkly jewelry! Thanks. I’ve tried but there is not enough hair for the chignon. For a wedding, I spent $300 on a hair artist and she did it. Folks said I looked like Audrey Hepburn (sans the glasses) … and the doughnut thing was used, but I can’t do it myself and it’s a ton of cash for such a short time. Thanks for the ideas Baconpancakes!

  24. Does anyone have any experience with Bogs “Sidney” cravat boots? Looking to get them in black; figure that they’re a good rain boot but don’t look quite as rain-boot-y as Hunters (which I also have a pair of, but they are just so clunky and heavy). In particular, are the Bogs boots comfortable and warm?

    1. I bought a pair of the Tacomas based on a recommendation from here, and I love them. They are taller than the Sidneys, but they don’t feel particularly heavy. Mine have the middle-weight lining and they keep my feet warm but not sweaty. I like them a lot!

  25. In love with a Cole Haan “briefcase.” It’s from the men’s section. I’ve had a really difficult time finding anything from my favorite designers that is not a tote with a computer sleeve sewn on, so I’ve started looking at the men’s briefcases. I love the messenger bag/crossbody strap + functionality. Is this odd? I’m usually not one to care about gendered stuff, but I feel like [big]law is a little more conscientious of what you’re wearing/etc.

    P.S. It makes me mad that I’m asking this, but here we are. TIA!

    1. I’m right there with you! I’ve been looking at some “messenger bags”by Fossil that are “essential for the man on the move.” Lol. Whatever. So many of the women’s bags either aren’t strong enough or large enough to accommodate a laptop. My firm-provided laptop is a heavy 15″ beast and I need something practical to carry it in.

      1. Right?! Go to the men’s section and it’s “Briefcases and work bags” and the women’s tab is missing the same section.

  26. Been working on a case for more than two years. The decision came back today. We lost.
    While we were pretty sure we weren’t going to win, knowing that and actually losing are not the same thing. I found it out just before a client meeting and it was the a painfully long meeting. I just wanted to go and read the decision (didn’t have time to even read it beyond “relied denied”- literally was handed the envelope as the client walked in) and also felt like I was going to cry.
    I know it’s just a client and boundaries and whatnot, but this absolutely SUCKS. I read it and then decided the best thing to do was to go to lunch to avoid coworkers, since I have no poker face.
    I have to call my client and tell him this afternoon. I’m not in public defense, but the stakes were about as high here and with the same client population. So….that’s going to be, probably, an even longer conversation. I’m a bit afraid he’s going to try to kill himself.
    I don’t really need advice, just commiseration. I am just so disappointed.

    1. I’m sorry. That sucks. I also take my cases very seriously and get upset when I “lose.” I put it in quotes because we are supposed to be seeking justice, not win or lose, but we all still view it in that adversarial way. Add in being type A because we are lawyers and it’s a recipe for misery. I can distance myself from some of my cases that are just money but I have a few that involve families and people’s civil rights or access to their kids and the stakes are huge. I really stress about those. It’s okay to wallow a bit though I probably shouldn’t be the one giving advice. I was going to ask for some a few weeks ago about how to not taking losing too personally.

      1. Yeah, it was a very personal, very high-stakes case for the client, and I just called him to tell him. He pretty much shut down and I didn’t know what to say….I’m kind of shut down myself, at this point. Emotionally exhausting, and I had to try to be at least put-together for when I called my client. I talked it over with my supervisor, a bit, and I’m pretty glad I have therapy tonight, which is where I’ll probably just break down. Or, you know, break down and cry on the walk to the bus and I’ll be the crazy woman crying on the bus. IDGAF.

        I really DON’T think justice was served here- the reasoning for the decision is frustrating, the process is frustrating, and I’m still worried my client is going to hang himself.

        Eff.

        1. I’m so sorry.

          It would be really wonderful if you call him tomorrow, to check in on him.

          Do you think that he also saw it coming, as you did? Denial is strong, but sometimes you can be surprised.

          Wishing you and your client better days.

Comments are closed.