Wednesday’s Workwear Report: Tomboy Shirt

346 Comments

1. In the last couple of months I’ve noticed I’m making more dumb mistakes that I rarely made before. Like making dinner reservations at the wrong location or sending the wrong attachment in an email. I’m also more clumsy and have the bruises and broken dishes that go with that.

   I’m in my early 40’s with a full time job and preschooler. I’m busy but we have a decent routine and I generally don’t feel completely overwhelmed. Is this just me getting older or do I need to be concerned about this noticeable to me decline?

   1. How many bouts of Covid have you had? I’m convinced it has made changes in our brain.

      1. Agreed. I had the original Covid, about as badly as one would want to while home alone, and I am certain that I have cognitive deficits from it. I experience issues both with executive functioning and just thinking. Research and writing that used to be very easy for me now requires a great deal of effort. My house and my office stay in disarray, which pretty much never used to happen.

         1. huh – i also had covid in like 4/20 and also have these deficits. i thought it was just being peri and tired and blah blah. i think i had a really mild case of long covid for about a year afterwards, saw so many docs about feeling dizzy and fatigue and more.

         2. I had what had to have been a bad case of covid at the beginning of Feb 2020 and feel like there are lingering issues like this still. They are slowly fading, but general lethargic thinking has been the stickiest symptom.

      2. +1 to this question.

      3. Even in this case, I’d want to know if it was something I could do something about (e.g. new onset gluten ataxia).

   2. I’m feeling this – work is a lot, and I’ve gone from my normal mid-level scatty to annoyingly scatty (missed out the photos for my son’s passport renewal, forgetting things I don’t normally do). I think I’m just dealing with a higher volume of work than I have before I’m buried in grading, it’s not hard but I’m doing double the amount I’ve ever done before) and have a lot of open loops (I don’t know if I’m teaching next term, we’re moving house but haven’t gone on the market yet, so don’t have a sense of timing). Trying to power through til the end of the term, and then really reset in terms of sleep, vitamins, a really solid to do list and planning routine.

   3. Are you sleep deprived? Can you find a weekend to truly rest? Hand off any kid duties to your partner or at least go to bed when you put the kid down, make no plans and make meals very simple for the weekend. No alcohol or caffeine. Walks or the park with the kid but nothing more taxing.

      1. This is a bandaid that will only breed resentment from her probably equally taxed out spouse.

         1. My suggestion allows for them to rest together. Or they could trade. OP says she isn’t that taxed, so may just need a bandaid based on the post as written.

   4. Could be the beginning of peri in addition to having a preschooler.

      1. Also: how’s your iron? When my iron is low, everything is worse. I don’t have the energy to muddle through. Might a lunch hamburger (or bean burger with a spinach salad) help? I am usually all about Girl Dinner but I need different fuel than just a yogurt and crackers.

         1. reminder that spinach has a moderate amount of iron, but the whole Popeye thing was based on a comma in the wrong place!

            1. I think the comma thing is an urban legend!

      2. “Peri” is just an excuse for doctors not to find the underlying causes of women’s ailments and discomfort, and a way for influencers to sell supplements.

         1. I largely agree. Though ironically after getting real medical work up I still needed supplements (for the things I tested deficient for, for reasons which had to be medically diagnosed and addressed separately, so it wasn’t something that would have been safe to DIY).

         2. Eh, the underlying cause for some things is hormones. Prescription hormonal medication has been amazingly effective for me. I agree that there are some social media grifters out there selling their own supplements to cash in on the perimenopause trend, but there genuinely are treatments for some symptoms related to perimenopause.

            1. Yes, sometimes there’s an underlying reason the hormones are off that can be treated with something else… but if there isn’t, by all means treat the hormones. No need to suffer either way.

            2. The underlying cause for some things is hormones, but it’s not the cause of everything. Doctors just give 40-something women hormonal BC without investigating what’s really going on, and in many cases hormonal BC just makes the problem worse.

         3. Ok, thanks for your commercial break you keep repeating, but it is getting tiring and of course is sweepingly dismissive and not correct.

   5. Not everything is pathological. Things like this happen.

      1. No, but everything is physiological. When new issues can be from something as simple as a deficiency, why just live with it?

         1. Yes – like a deficiency in sleep.

            1. My husband is now one of those people who is so, so relieved to finally have a CPAP after resisting one for too long. I understand the resistance, but I’m relieved too.

      2. +1 I get why posters here latch onto this, but not everything is fixable. Some things are outside of our control

         1. Of course not everything is fixable. But medical science is advancing in leaps and bounds, and so many things can be addressed or improved. To me it’s one of the perks of modern civilization that I don’t have to just shrug my shoulders and accept my lot the way my great-grandmother would have had to.

         2. Also +1. Also don’t overdo it on the iron.

         3. But it’s worth trying to figure it out and trying to fix it, which is what OP appears to be doing.

   6. This was me in my early 40s with a preschooler. Give yourself some grace, Younger Me! I think it was a combination of lingering mom-brain, perimenopause, and the stressors of navigating life as a full-time boss babe and toddler mom. I’m presently 46 with a kindergartener, and the instances of dumb mistakes are more of a rare occasion now that I’ve become more comfortable with the routines and gotten a handle on this (helps when the kiddos become more self-sufficient). I don’t think you need to be concerned unless it keeps getting worse. Best wishes to you as you navigate this season of life!

   7. Are you coming off a period of extreme stress? Sometimes for me this happens after the hard time. If you haven’t had a physical with bloodwork recently, definitely do that, but you could also just have a lot on your plate right now.

      1. Agreed, when life finally slows down the body gives itself permission to go through it’s issues when it was holding you together through the stress.

   8. I started doing all these things in my early 40s, also with young kids. It was terrible and I felt like a shell of my former self. Years later it got bad enough to talk to my doctor and I realized that it was all part of perimenopause/menopause. Relatively low dose hormone therapy has done wonders.

   9. If your insurance covers a physical I would schedule that. My brain fog was being low on D. Also are you having depth perception problems? An eye exam and update to my glasses RX helped with that.

   10. I would assume it’s perimenopause.

   11. 44, and I’ve noticed the same thing. Honestly, it is just plain overwhelm and having way too much to do, I think. The demands on me keep increasing, but my capacity has not.

   12. I am half-seriously considering starting a social media account that’s just pictures of the absurd ways I’ve injured myself. Like holding doll accessories and reaching across my face without thinking and getting a scratch. This is *every day* and I also feel I’m less “on the ball” than I was 5 years-ish ago. It’s worrying.

   13. When I was younger I was noticeably more clumsy on my period – dropping things, bumping into things even more than I normally did. Peri/menopause did the same thing. I’m on HRT but having some mild hot flashes and my ability to injure myself has definitely increased over this short period. I’m developing a hypothesis that hormonal fluctuations cause quantum entanglement and the physical world really is more challenging! It would explain a lot about teenage boys and their ability to break things just by looking at them.

       But I think everything is just more stressful for a lot of reasons, but agree a conversation with your doctor can’t hurt. I had some deep Vitamin D and B deficiencies at one point because of a medication I was taking, and sorting that out made me feel a lot better.

       1. My doctor explained that hormones really do loosen up our joints quite a lot. Apparently it’s an adaptation to allow for a shifted center of gravity in pregnancy.

          1. I think this is also why sports injuries vary by time of month.

          2. I dropped so many coffee cups on my period…

   14. Not against looking into medical issues with your doctor but I also wonder if some of it could be a response to *all this* (gesturing wildly). Our attention spans and energy are being destroyed by engagement with our phones and computers. And if you’re in the US, there’s a lot going on here that’s hard to totally avoid. That on top of caring for a little one might be taking more energy than you realize.

       The other day I found a spoon I’d put in a cracker box. Why? I don’t even remember putting it in there. Getting older is certainly weird.

   15. A brain fog was a symptom for me in perimenopause. HRT has made a lot of difference, particularly testosterone. Issues with sleep was another early sign, not hot flashes. So if you are having other issues, start with a normal full bloodwork but if it doesn’t raise any flags, follow up with a menopause specialist. They should treat symptoms not your hormone levels.

   16. You’re in your 40’s with a full time job and a preschooler.
       You’re a woman.
       You sound normal.

       This is mid life, plus the stress and sleep deprivation of your life, most likely. Can you improve your sleep time, and stress reduction activity of choice?

       Of course you need to keep up with your PCP appointments, and this is the decade to have a gynecologist to help with perimenopausal transition.

2. It does look like a nice shirt. I am 45. I guess I was a tomboy. Are girls today called “tomboys” or just “athletic” or playful or other words? Do people still use the word “tomboy”?

   1. sporty or athletic. We used a lot of words in the 90s that did not age well.

      1. It’s much older than that. I associate it more with the late 1800s, like Jo in Little Women.

      2. It’s more a word from the 1930s or 1940s that persists until today (apparently)

         1. Totally fair that it has longer roots than 90s slang. It just sounds outdated to me now – that for a girl to be sporty, the description involves meaning being “boy-like” – eh.

   2. I read a hysterical article (not intentionally so) about cigarettes marketed to the sort of women who went with men to tractor pulls. I forget the exact term they used, but it was “robust women” or some such. I think that in the 80s, some tomboys grew up to become that. Marketing is funny — tobacco was so hyper-segmented (Kools, Virginia Slims, Capris, Salems, etc.). A robust woman would not have smoked Capris. Those things looked like little toothpicks of death.

      1. This is fascinating history! Funny how things evolve.

      2. I still remember reading an article about how cigar*ttes were marked to women as “torches of freedom” b/c it was not considered ladylike to smoke.

         As for “tomboy,” I don’t think it’s used much but I also don’t think it’s unheard of in today’s vernacular. Personally, I just think of Kristie from the Babysitter’s Club whenever I hear it so have no negative associations.

   3. The tomboy is a classic figure in some of the best children’s literature there is. I was one and I’m not stopping saying it, even if some people wish they didn’t exist period.

      1. I’m thinking of a pickme

         1. If you’re going to lurk waiting for a thread to say that on, maybe pick one where it actually makes sense next time. Or, here’s a thought – go outside. Breathe the air. Find something to be thankful for.

         2. I can’t think of any overlap between pickme and tomboy.

            1. +1 That doesn’t make the slightest bit of sense. If anything the tomboy of classic literature was someone who didn’t take the easy path despite societal disapproval

            2. It’s the same concept of “one of the boys” if you’re on instagram a lot.

            3. No, it’s not the same as “one of the boys”, being a “pick me” (as I understand it) is engaging in behavior with the goal of gaining male approval. Tomboys often get rejected or mocked by men and those who hold traditional beliefs about gender expression.

            4. Again, this type is portrayed on instagram in a very specific pick me way. I’m not defending it, but it’s a real type portrayed online.

            5. Then you gotta get offline, like Jo March, Laura Ingalls Wilder, Caddie Woodlawn, and countless other tomboys from classic literature.

            6. The tomboy has genuine interests that are masculine coded and a lack of interest in things and behaviors that are feminine coded as a means to endear herself to men she’s romantically interested in. The pick me, which I equate to Gillian Flynn’s “cool girl,” rejects behavior that is feminine coded particularly because it is feminine coded. The pick me- cool girl is fine with belching, hot wings and men who blow them off for a video game not because she prefers those things but because asking for more is feminine coded. The tomboy is “not like other girls” in a neutral way. The pick me-cool girl is “not like other girls” as a way to win the guy by positioning herself as “above” the traditionally feminine and thus inferior behavior of most women. We can talk about the irony that the pick me- cool girl inevitably settles for a pretty crummy relationship but that’s another blog comment for another day. There is a difference in the archetypes even if real people are most often too nuanced to be either.

            7. Sorry that got jumbled. The second part of the first sentence is about the pick me. They’re not real people but rather archetypes.

         3. Completely agree Anon at 9:07am. It feels like a term that has a sense of pride attached to it.

            I despise the term pickme so much. I’ve only seen women use it to diss on other women and it gives such mean girl energy.

            1. Both mean girl and envy/victim good. Sorry they didn’t pick you.

            2. LOL –

               It doesn’t appear that either of you understand what is meant by calling someone a “pick me.” It’s derogatory, not based on envy. A “pick me” is someone who engages in anti-feminist behaviors in exchange for male approval, often including tearing down other women for not engaging in similar anti-feminist behaviors. Saying that calling someone a “pick me” is “mean girl behavior” ignores the anti-woman behavior the pick me is engaging in.

               Male approval that is contingent on carrying water for the patriarchy isn’t desirable, no one is feeling bad that they weren’t “picked.”

            3. Oooooh! “sorry they didn’t pick you!”’ That’s the perfect pick me thing to say. You could do an instagram skit with that one. Thats the exact energy!

            4. Insulting a woman based on the presumption that she wasn’t good enough to be “picked” by a man is about one of the most anti-feminist things I can think of.

   4. Today they’d be told they’re nonbinary and to pick new pronouns.

      1. Eyeroll

      2. Indeed – but I’m semi-reliably informed that it’s becoming uncool now so we’ll see a slowdown. Fine with me, as I’ve never supported the idea that there are clothes and behaviors that equate to “not girl.” Call me old-fashioned, but I’m here for the tomboys who can do and be anything in life without requiring surgery.

         1. Let’s be old fashioned together!

            1. +2

         2. As a young reader I always thought the tomboy characters embodied the most positive aspects of femininity and were not at all masculine. Tomboys are smart, capable, and determined. Those are feminine qualities.

            1. Pippi Longstocking!

         3. This. Thank you. Isn’t that what they told us as little girls in the 70’s?

            1. And the ’80s.

      3. I feel like we are really starting to stereotype what a woman is and that if you don’t fit that mold, things can get weird fast for kids, depending on who is in their orbit. 5 older brothers and you live on a farm? It’s a nothing burger. My lesbian friends really feel that it was better to be coming of age in the 80s/90s and that the space for them has shrunk.

         1. That’s very interesting. It does seem to me that these days, it’s harder to be a woman who might like to dress in styles or do traditionally “male” things, without being assumed to be nonbinary or (banned word) or whatever. Not that there’s anything wrong with that!

            It’s very weird to me that in 2025 you can’t just be a full on heterosexual woman who hates dresses and likes to fix cars. Instead you must be nonbinary. What a disservice we are doing to girls and young women, limiting our definition of “woman” in this way.

            1. I read somewhere that it used to be that we were trying to eliminate gendered toys (like boys playing with dollhouses was ok, you could still be a boy and like to pretend), and now we’re trying to gender toys/activities and eliminate the gender of kids, and while it was pithy clickbait, it obviously stuck with me.

            2. I don’t understand. Where are you that a heterosexual woman can’t dislike dresses and like fixing cars?

               I live in a liberal community that is better than many in accepting folks along the gender spectrum, including nonbinary folks. Never have I ever heard anyone ever say anything to suggest someone isn’t who they are because they don’t fit a stereotype.

            3. It’s more like religious conservatives believing that g3nd3r, the hierarchy of social norms related to each sex, is fixed – if you’re born a girl, that’s dresses and sparkles, period, and can’t be changed. Modern g3nd3r activists believe your sex can be changed to match whatever norm you prefer – so if you’re born a born and like sparkles, no worries, just “change” your sex. Radical feminists or g3nd3r abolitionists believe you can like whatever you want and do whatever you want and you don’t have to change a thing.

            4. Have you ever hung out with people who aren’t CIS and straight? I promise were not temporarily confused and have thought about this more than you can imagine.

            5. Re your last sentence, how is this “radical”? Can we not just do things? Things I do, like vote and own property and keep my own earnings, we’re never historically normal for women throughout history. I’d like to make more things normal and options for women and it feels like we are going backwards.

            6. Not all cis people are straight and this is hardly news.

            7. There is a whole series of “What I wish you knew” over on social media, and what I wish everyone knew is that being tr@ns has nothing to do with the toys you played with as a child.

            8. I keep seeing this denial that it has nothing to do with toys you played with as a child and yet every story begins with “as a child I knew I was different because I played with X.” Make it make sense.

            9. Dude no. My mom fixed cars and is handy. My dad cooks and loves clothes. They’re both cis gendered people and always were and it’s weird to pretend they’d be tr@ns if born now. I like wearing boys clothes and pretending to shave my face as a kid but never once did I believe I was in the wrong body. Have you ever heard a t@ns person talk about their experience? It’s such a weird straw man to pretend like they’re regular tomboys or boys who like pink that somehow are forced to change genders.

      4. My American English-speaking kids are amazed by taking Latin where not only does everything have a gender, but some things are “neuter.” Their minds are blown.

      5. I have teens and one of them was at a school where every new adult they met asked them for their pronouns and kept meticulous track of them. And any time they stepped off of a stereotypical male or female look or hobby or interest, it was suggested to them that maybe they weren’t a boy or girl. They often had a host of complex mental health issues coming out of COVID: anxiety, depression, AHDH, autism. The groupthink was strong. Hate your body and how it’s changing? Have you considered that it’s the wrong one? And you can bet none of this was candidly shared with parents. Only whispered about unless your kid was candid with you about what was happening and how much pressure and pushback they’d get over saying that they hate their body because they are having cramps or hate their boobs because of how now the boys are creeping on them and they miss how simple life was back when they were 6. What grownup feels like it’s OK to talk to minors like that? The pendulum swung past kindness and toleration into something dark and disturbing and I feel like the overcorrection for all that is why Trump won.

         1. It’s definitely a big part of the reason why he won and that is supported by surveys and polls. I also think the utter lack of organized resistance that we’ve seen to many of Trump’s efforts in this area (passports, restricting medical treatment) is telling.

         2. Is this a private school? I’m from a family of public school teachers in the Northeast and Mountain West. None of them have time to do any of this. They don’t even have resources for hand sanitizer and pencils, and they have 25-30 kids per class and aren’t asking any of them about pronouns or diagnoses.

            My mom is in her 70s and a retired educator. She said teachers always knew about LGBTQ kids before there were words to describe it. These kids always existed, they were just bullied or told to man up and not be a little girl, etc.

            1. And yet pronouns are a major priority, to the point where a teacher or librarian or staff who doesn’t put them on an email signature catches heat. It is unreal to those of us finding this in our kids’ schools.

            2. https://law.justia.com/cases/federal/appellate-courts/ca11/23-10385/23-10385-2025-03-12.html

         3. I have a teen and agree with this. The pressure on girls to be nonbinary is ridiculous, and it’s coming from adults as much as it’s coming from peers. My daughter, who is happy and secure in her identity as a young woman, was bullied during high school for not adopting a “they/them” attitude. Partly for this reason, she ended up at a liberal Christian college where everyone is accepted for who they are, including cis straight people as well as all other types of people.

            1. This is some wild creative writing.

            2. If you think it’s creative writing you don’t have a teen daughter.

            3. Doesn’t seem like creative writing to me – at all.

            4. There are a few posters on here who are deeply, deeply bitter and angry about this supposed groupthink that their kids experienced. I have teen kids, and I live in a really liberal area — my kids just…have not experienced any of this. At all.

               I have always wondered if these poster’s children expressed something at home, and it so scared the poster that they freaked out and blamed group think or social contagion or or or?? I always wonder/worry about their kids, as I assume there is some fear or anxiety that underlies these very broad statements. Hope their kids are okay now.

            5. I have a teen daughter and son, and they haven’t ever experienced anything like this. It seems like it’s coming from such a place of fear from the posters who put this out there.

            6. It’s not coming from a place of fear. It’s coming from a place of anger about how our daughters are treated.

            7. If you think that just because your children have not experienced gender-based bullying that it doesn’t exist, then you are incredibly closed-minded. If you think that parents supporting their cis straight children against said bullying are secretly in denial that their children are not in fact cis and straight, then you are an odd sort of bigot. All children, including those who are happy with the bodies into which they were born, deserve to be accepted for who they are.

            8. Meanwhile we have cisgender moms getting testosterone therapy to be their best selves.

            9. Nothing like having your kid brainwashed at school and then coming here to be gaslit.

            10. I agree it’s not fear, it’s anger. A lot of us are really sick of aggressive tactics (mandatory email signature pr0n0uns, pressure on tomboys to adopt new identities, losing access to single-sex bathrooms, and more) and then having people gaslight us about it. You want all this aggressive effort? Then own it. Don’t deny you’re doing it.

            11. This is hilarious. We point out that our daughters are being pressured to declare themselves nonbinary when they aren’t. Your response is “No one is pressuring girls to call themselves nonbinary. They probably really are nonbinary and you are just in denial.” How self-contradictory.

            12. Is mandatory pronouns in emails really an “aggressive tactic”? I just don’t get this. How prevalent really is the “loss” of single-sex bathrooms?

                I don’t think anyone should be pressured to adopt a non-binary identity, but I’d love some actual evidence on how widespread this is.

            13. Literally how does putting she/her in your signature hurt you at all? Literally how? I deal with people intentionally and I can’t always clock a masculine or feminine name and it saves so much embarrassment. I really don’t understand what the problem is? Tell me so I can even try to understand what is lost when you change your email signature that makes you angry. It’s such a weird thing to care about. Like you’re mad it might help someone transitioning feel less embarrassed? I can try to understand why you want to use a bathroom stall rather than an actual single bathroom with a locking door. You like washing your hands with other women or something, maybe? But how is the signature hurting you?

            14. Or, crazy thought here, not all neighborhoods and schools are the same. I totally believe the posters who describe how their daughters were pressured and I believe the posters who say that wasn’t their teen experience — both can be true at the same time.

            15. It’s not just being asked to put “she/her” in your signature line. It’s having the norm be “she/they” so there is implicit pressure not to use “she/her,” or even being openly criticized for using “she/her.”

                Also, many of the people who are supposed to benefit from universal declaration of pronouns are against forced declaration of pronouns because they are trying to quietly pass.

            16. I don’t do the signatures (have always pushed back) because a) I don’t adhere to that belief system and b) I don’t need to contribute to stereotype threat. You can do whatever you want in your own signature but don’t come at me for not sharing your views.

            17. ‘Belief system’? what that actual efff. When people don’t put pronouns in their emails I don’t assume gender so they get they/them until I learn otherwise.

            18. Adhere to what belief system? The concept of pronouns? How is putting she/her in your email signature contributing to stereotype threat? Just still failing to see how being asked to put pronouns in an email signature is an “aggressive tactic.” Are people really “coming at you” for not putting your pronouns in your email signature? Or are they just not noticing/ maybe mentioning it one time? Like I’m sure you see yourself as a real counter-culture warrior here, but I doubt people are “coming at you” over this.

            19. If someone called you “mister” you wouldn’t correct them?! That’s not a philosophy it’s basic manners?

            20. I always left out signature pronouns to support people who weren’t out at work or otherwise not comfortable sharing, but I appreciate people who keep them to support people who want to convey pronouns. It’s better not to have a universal practice I think.

            21. Announcing “hey I’m a woman! She/her!” absolutely contributes to stereotype threat.

                As for belief systems, it’s beyond the scope of a comment here. At its core, I do not subscribe to the belief that one can change their sex. Sex is immutable, and determined at conception. You can have any personality under the sun and it means absolutely nothing about your sex.

            22. Put it this way – some of you say you’ll do they/them so as not to assume anything. But when it came time to speak over me, pay me less, attempt to deny maternity leave benefits, ignore laws about private pumping spaces, and pass me over for promotions, it was clear that everyone correctly identified me as a woman, despite me never once sharing pr0n0uns. You can do your performative they/them until you’re blue in the face, but mankind has never, ever had a problem identifying and oppressing women.

            23. Via email I don’t know what you look like.

            24. “As for belief systems, it’s beyond the scope of a comment here. At its core, I do not subscribe to the belief that one can change their sex.”

                Sure but how is you putting “she/her” in your email signature inconsistent with this “belief system”? Or is it your “belief system” that no one else should be allowed to feel differently, and you are, as is typical, believing that you’re oppressed because other people have different beliefs than you and aren’t being forced to hide them from you? Here you are claiming that someone else’s pronouns in an email signature is “aggressive.” Sorry someone held your eyelids open, clockwork orange style, and forced you to endure this email signature. You are truly a victim, having to acknowledge the existence of people who are different from you.

                Literally all you are asked to do is “she/her.” You are quite literally not being asked to screech “hey I’m a woman!” in your email signature.

            25. I’ve never heard of anyone being bullied for being cis and straight and can’t imagine that is a thing except perhaps in some small ultra liberal bubbles – and even that I kind of doubt.
                But I will say my daughter had a friend “come out” as NB at age 6 and I 100% think that was parent-driven and only gives fuel to the conservative argument that this is being foisted on kids too young. The vast majority of 6 year olds do not even understand the concept of being NB, as evidenced by the fact that she had to explain it the entire very confused friend group, all of whom are from solidly left-leaning families. Fwiw we used the friend’s preferred pronouns but didn’t make a big deal of it and within a couple months she had dropped it and gone back to identifying as a girl.

         4. I am very left liberal. My mother worked in the women’s jail when I was a child so I learned at a young age about tr$ns people. She was very accepting and matter-of-fact. That said, I 100 % agree that the NB and Tr$ns politics are part of why Trump won. I don’t want people to be discriminated against for who they love or how they look. I was also aggravated that it is the only issue for Democrats.

            1. It was the Dems only issue and they also kept denying it was their only issue (“this is just a right wing talking point!”) which was doubly aggravating.

            2. You cannot possibly believe that this was “the only issue” for Democrats. I just cannot take complaints like this seriously.

               Anon at 12:15 – you’re misunderstanding. The argument is that whatever advocacy you’re getting from the Democrats is a direct response to harsh restrictions and inflammatory, bigoted, hateful language by republicans. This issue would not be discussed on a national scale if republicans weren’t turning it into a wedge issue. Republicans always do this – go after some minority group and then when Democrats push back, screech and holler that Democrats are so focused on blah blah blah.

            3. No, Democrats always do this – pick some fringe issue that’s deeply unpopular (just look at the women’s sports issue), hammer it constantly, play the victim when republicans fight back, and then refuse to take accountability when they lose yet again. Just look at AOC on Twitter this month – who is this helping? I’m over it.

            4. Cute attempt at a “no u!” Can conservatives ever offer a substantive, intelligent response instead of a bad-faith take? Show me that some democrat politician advanced some piece of actual lawmaking to allow “men in woman’s’ sports,” and only then did republicans react, or just quit lying. Seriously, people can see through you.

         5. There’s a small private school in our area (very progressive, relatively new so not the $$$$ parents of some local private schools) that has a reputation for a similar school culture. The attitudes at our local public school are pretty variable – some teachers are very encouraging of gender exploration and others (including a fair number of openly gay teachers) are way less interested in the whole issue.

            1. My husband is a public high school teacher in liberal NYC who can barely remember all of his students’ names. He tries to get names and pronouns correct to be respectful, but he makes mistakes. I cannot imagine a teacher who has the time or mental energy to get invested in encouraging their students to question their pronouns. But maybe that is the glory of private school?

      6. Today they’d be allowed to decide if they’re nonbinary and want to use new pronouns, or if they just enjoy a more androgynous/masculine style.

         * there fixed it for you.

   5. now they are called Tr$ns men and get their br$$sts cut off.

   6. The manufacturer is trying to convey a vibe. Their word options were “tomboy” and “boyfriend.” They could also have gone with “sort of oversized,” but that is less evocative.

3. What fabrics work well with coordinating with tweed? I have a gray tweed dress but no longer have matching jacket. Blazer doesn’t seem quite right. Any suggestions?

   1. A solid black smooth knit jacket or structured cardigan.

      1. +1

   2. black turtleneck underneath.

   3. Nothing satiny, go for matte fabrics.

4. I’ve pretty much decided that I will leave my marriage, and already been in touch with a lawyer to get things started. I have young kids, and without going into details, it’s a bad situation that’s unlikely to improve. My rational self knows everyone will be better off if we leave, but I’m really overwhelmed/terrified by the whole thing and the thought of blowing up our lives. Would love to hear from others who have been through this, especially with small kids.

   1. Following.

   2. i separated when my kids were one and four and the last year had been untenable. It is very very rough but i promise there is life on the other end and, if you want, you will have opportunities to be in a better relationship. good luck to you! i strongly recommend trying to cultivate relationships with women in similar situations. they don’t have to be your best friends but nice to have another mom who you can hang out with, bitch to, and maybe even plan activities or babysit for eachother. one thing that i have found to be true is that couples don’t want to hang out with single women.

   3. The bad part will be over before you know it, and you’ll feel SO much better on the other side!! Trust me, life gets so, so much better. I don’t have kids, but getting divorced was the best thing I ever did. Yes, the months of separating and sorting out the legal stuff were very painful, but I was surprised to find I felt relief the moment I moved out, and it got better and better from there. Sending hugs, you got this!

   4. I didn’t have kids when I went through my divorce, but wanted to chime in that my divorce was the best thing I’ve ever done. It was by far the hardest period of my life, but it was so worthwhile in the long run. Get a good therapist, lean on your friends and family, and (as SA says here) remember that the only way out is through. You will get there and be so much happier one day!

   5. I’m sure you’ve heard this, but I hated my husband when we had little kids. Often thought leaving would be better. But that was a phase made extraordinarily difficult by the kids. I’m glad I didn’t now that we’re past that little kid stage.

   6. My son was four when I started the divorce process. It is hard on him, but it’s about choosing the hard. The best option for him (happily married parents) doesn’t exist, because his father abused me, at first emotionally and then ventured into physical.

      It’s horrible and I wish every day that my son could have better, but I’m not capable of making that happen. Nothing I can do can give my son the life that I want for him, so I’m giving him the second best/least bad option.

      1. thanks, this really resonates…

   7. I left my first husband when my child was six, and I’m not gonna lie — it was tough for a while. But OMG it’s SO MUCH BETTER to be on your own with your kid(s) than it is to be with a spouse who is actively making things harder. You can do this!!

   8. My youngest was 6 when I went through my divorce. My ex husband is high conflict and it’s very hard. There is a certain amount of shoulder shrugging I have to do because I can’t coparent with him. I just focus on the children being safe and taken care of.

      If your children are very young, I would try to have family ready to support you. The only thing I miss is being able to leave the house when the kids are sleeping to exercise, shop or go out with friends. It’s a period of massive upheaval for the children so having grandparents there to spoil them is good for them.

   9. My daughter was five when I left her father and filed for divorce. Even though it was hard, it was a huge relief and well worth it after years of unhappiness and trying to make it work. In her mid 20s, my daughter told me that when people find out her parents are divorced, they say “I’m sorry” and she says “I’m not.” She knows things were and are much better than they would’ve been if I’d stayed – and she has a great relationship with her stepfather.

      1. Thanks for sharing this.

5. Is it okay to stay married to someone you’re not “in love” with anymore? Divorce feels extreme because nothing is bad enough to justify it, but I can’t say I’m happy.
   Has anyone been in a similar situation? How did you handle it? Is this something that can improve, or is indifference a sign it’s over?
   (For context I’ve been with my husband for nearly 20 years, beginning when were in our teens. We also have a 3 year old.)

   1. I’ve also been with my husband since we were teens. For me this is an ebb and flow of life and shifting focuses and priorities at different times, and maybe even something like how much energy I have for my emotional life, so I default to “this can improve” and that not being happy now doesn’t mean I can’t be happy again, and this has always been true.

      But I also never really considered divorce, so we may be talking about something different.

   2. So you have a 3 year old….I don’t have kids, but I think having young kids is such a big thing. from the outside looking in on my best friend and sisters marriages with kids – those early years are so rough on marriages. It seems like for all of them there is a period of time that they’re really not very happy with each other…. and then they get to older kids and bam they seem really happy again. I think it’s kind of normal – like pre-kids your group project with your partner is a happy healthy marriage, post-kid your group project with your partner is keeping the tiny human alive, which is especially intense for the first 5 years. That shift in time and energy is going to naturally let the marriage project languish a bit. It’s not wrong or bad, it just is. As the kids get older and don’t need as much energy all of the time, there is space to give the marriage project some time/energy and remember why you liked each other in the first place.

      So, my question to you would be – were you happy in your marriage before you had the kid? If you were, barring relationship dealbreakers (which you get to decide what they are and how bad they have to be to be a dealbreaker) I’d give yourself a lot of grace and start to figure out some simple easy ways to shift a little bit of energy back to the marriage.

      1. Yes, and I’m going to be blunt that I would never consider blowing up my kid’s life and sense of security because I wasn’t “happy.” I say this as someone who does have regrets and currently does not feel super in love with my husband. But he is a very good man, father and partner, and happiness is nebulous – I think we do a disservice to everyone when happiness is the goal of life.

         First, I would definitely (and plan to) exhaust all of the options to put some spark back into the marriage and deal with any wounds / codependency you have. Find an outlet that breathes life into you that isn’t your space. Go to therapy, take a couples trip, read spicy novels, keep a gratitude journal, etc.

         1. *isn’t your spouse

   3. I would defer this decision until the kid starts school. 0-3 with a kid is rough on every marriage. 4-6 gets better. If it’s not better by 6, though, you’ll have a better sense that it probably won’t get better.

      1. Also, the book Too Good to Leave, Too Bad to Stay is a classic recommendation around here for people in this situation.

   4. There is no universal rule on whether it’s OK. Yes of course it’s ok, assuming you are not being hurt and no major issues like cheating, drugs or whatever. Lots of people are in that type of marriage where there is companionship but not romantic love. Some people bond over raising children together. But it’s also OK to decide you want something else, if that’s the case. Just think about what that will mean for your child, shared custody, etc.

   5. I have also been with my husband since our teens and we’ve been married over 30 years. There have definitely been times when I’ve felt like we were just roommates, living together and keeping the kids alive. There have been moments when I’ve thought I could just walk away and maybe I’d be happier. There have been times when I haven’t liked him very much, although those didn’t usually last too long. There have also been times when we’ve been amazingly happy and very much in love. It ebbs and flows a lot over that long a time period and I do think that’s normal. And I echo those who’ve pointed out that this (very young kids) is a particularly difficult stage. If you aren’t sure or want to stay, try putting some more time into the marriage – regular date nights, a trip away together, etc. I have found that going out of my way to act in ways that show love can help strengthen the feelings (doing small things for your partner), even when everything otherwise feels blah.
      That said, you get to make the call here. If you’re ok staying in the marriage, even though it doesn’t feel romantic anymore, that’s ok. And if you’re unhappy, you don’t have to stay! It doesn’t matter whether your marriage is as bad or as good as someone else’s. All that matters is whether it is working for you.

   6. I would ask yourself what you think the purpose of a marriage is and whether this relationship is hitting most of the goal posts. Obviously you’d like some more romance than you’re getting, but for most people that’s not all a marriage is. Using myself as an example, I also care about the economic benefits, whether we’re parenting as a team, if we’re supporting each other in spiritual/social/physical pursuits, and supporting family and community ties. Obviously no one relationship can do all of those at once, so I’m okay if romance falls off while we’re focused on other things and I’m confident that we’ll be able to get back to it when other things take backseat. If romance is really important to you and you’re not getting it in your marriage, it’s perfectly alright to leave the relationship. But know most long-term marriages have long stretches where the marriage isn’t really about that and that’s part of the deal.

      1. Great points. I’ll also chime in as someone who has been with my husband since we were 19 (though a little off and on at first), and am now pushing 40. I am definitely experiencing some wistful “what might have been” thoughts and accompanying malaise. I have not been serious with anyone else in my life, and I wonder if I settled for what was comfortable rather than what was truly right.

         But I can mostly see that as the “grass is greener” syndrome it probably is. A lot of women my age who spent their 20s being fun and purposely not settling down have regrets, too. Relationships are not all sunshine no matter what path you walk down, and those of us who got together young are going through that middle-age stagnation sooner than our peers who got married in their 30s. If I’m being totally honest with myself in my core, I am glad I have the life I have.

         1. So interesting for me to read from those who met their spouses early, I didn’t think there would be so many of us here.

            I had a few serious boyfriends before I met husband at 19, married at 25 after living together for 5 years, now were mid-40s.

   7. Do you value him as a human? I went through this slump, separated for a few years, and decided it was more important that he was a really excellent human being, and that I loved him very much, even if the spark took a few more years to get back.

   8. I was together with my high school sweetheart from the time I was 16 to 33, so over half my life. We did everything together– we rock climbed, we traveled, we had a gorgeous house, had plenty of money, we liked hanging out with each other, we laughed.

      But still I wasn’t happy. I have a theory that people who want to get divorced for “no reason” aren’t self destructive, they’ve just buried their own needs so deeply they’re not even consciously aware of what’s wrong. I was SO loyal to my ex that I never badmouthed him to anyone– I hardly complained about him in my own journal! And so if asked I’d say the same thing “I don’t know. I’m just unhappy.”

      It was only after we separated that I was finally able to articulate the actual issues: he drank too much and would pick fights when he was drunk, he spoke to me with a baseline level of annoyance, he had a very low frustration tolerance and would give up on things easily, he wanted to talk about how doomed the world was constantly, he was terrible at his career and got fired more than once, he had no interest in moving out of our small hometown, we weren’t compatible in the bedroom, and I just wasn’t attracted to him.

      So this is all to say that maybe your vague unhappiness is something else under the surface you’re not able to say right now. My calculations may have changed if I had a kid, but I am so, so glad I divorced my ex, and so much happier than I ever was with him.

   9. Oof, I feel this. I have a lot of love for my husband and he’s a great partner and dad. But I am not in love with him anymore. But we have kids, and I don’t really “know” anyone who has gone through a divorce. (I mean, I obviously do, but in the sense that no one in my family of origin did, none of my close or even somewhat-close friends did, etc.) So it feels like this foreign thing that I wouldn’t even know how to approach. And yet! I think about it a lot!

6. at various points we have discussed changing in locker rooms on the board. I saw an interesting article (i read it online but i think the atlantic) about how people no longer change in front of others and that, actually, it has ramifications on how we view bodies and ourselves. If the only body your 15 year daughter sees is her own and swimsuit models and movie starts she is getting very different messaging than if she is in a loehmann’s dressing room or the shared showers of a locker room. Interesting, i thought.

   1. I think it’s fantastic that private changing rooms and showers are now more widely available, allowing people to preserve their privacy and dignity.

   2. Another vote for school sports! We all had to change from school clothes to sports clothes in the locker room every day

      1. yeah, and a good portion of the girls were using open locker doors as blockers as best they could, wearing skirts so they could put on gym shorts before removing their clothes, and dreading it. I’m all for private changing.

         1. Yeah private changing is good actually, even if we want some other tradition like SpaWorld.

         2. Agreed – D1 collegiate athlete who started my sport in 7th grade. We all took turns ducking into the showers or behind doors or in stalls or using clothing tricks for privacy.

            Also, being totally honest, open changing fueled the rampant eating disorders on my teams more than just about anything else that happened to me as a female athlete. Girls who were in the throes of starving themselves flaunted their ribs, and (lord help me) even made a game of counting each other’s ribs while changing. Sickening. The scale was in the locker room too, and girls would weigh themselves naked to keep the lbs down. You were utterly shamed if you had cellulite or fat rolls visible while changing.

            So, give me privacy and dignity.

            1. Interesting. One of the women’s sports teams in my college in the 90s protested when the school proposed a new women’s locker room design that would provide additional privacy. They felt it was an important part of team building and that they should not be deprived of that while the men had it. It never appealed to me, but they were adamant (and no, this was not somehow about sexual orientation if someone is thinking that; the women I knew were all cis).

   3. I don’t buy this. A teenager isn’t seeing the swimsuit models or movie stars naked, and can still compare herself to them. So why does she need to see normal people naked? She can see lots of different bodies by seeing people at the pool or beach in swimsuits or in just normal clothing anywhere she goes.

      1. I feel like teens are also more aware of “yassification” than older people who never use those tools themselves.

      2. You don’t think teens see nudity all the time on tv, in movies or on the web?? I did and it was much harder to do it when I was growing up in the 90s than it is now. Seeing “real bodies” is so healthy for knowing people have cellulite and not all b**bs look like they do in movies and p*rn.

         1. I’m not sure this is really how it plays out. To me it seems just as likely to fuel motivation to look just as polished and put together unclothed as clothed? Some of the most judgmentally looksist cultures in history were all about seeing other people naked.

         2. I just don’t know why you have to see someone naked to understand that. My pool in the summer makes it really clear.

         3. I don’t know teens who are paying for porn online. And in my (admittedly limited) experience, the people in free porn videos online have pretty real bodies.

         4. I completely agree

   4. I read the same article and I think it’s a fair point. I also know that a lot of people hated changing in public locker rooms and went to uncomfortable lengths to avoid it. I would say maybe there should be more options for privacy without having it be the only option? I grew up going to a lot of single-gender saunas with my mom and grandma (and plenty of Lohman’s dressing rooms) where everyone of different ages and body types was nude or close to it and I think it was really good for me developing a healthy sense of body positivity. But I appreciate that other people react to this stuff differently. There is no one size fits all approach. I think we are losing a lot as a society from catering to everyone’s fears and phobias but I also appreciate that not being sensitive to those things is/was hard on a lot of people. It’s good to acknowledge the trade-offs.

      1. I lived in Germany for a couple years as a teenager, and going to swimming pools and beaches there was really good for my not-always-positive body image. The lockers and changing areas were practical, basically open, and full of people of all ages changing clothing. Younger kids didn’t even wear swimsuit tops – boys and girls. Lots of women went topless, especially if they were tanning (it was the 90s after all). I was a theater kid in high school and it was very freeing not to be awkward and anxious about costume changes.

         It was quite a shock to be in LA as an adult and get the stinkeye for changing the swimsuit of my preschooler (a girl) in the middle of the women-and-children changing room at the local Y. There were some curtained-off areas but like 2 for a huge locker space. I get that people have different hangups but our attitudes about nudity are so extreme.

   5. I grew up before camera phones was a thing, and have zero issues being undressed in front of people.

      I totally get why people who have grown up with cameras everywhere can feel differently, or feel exposed to a degree I can’t imagine.

   6. I grew up in the era of open dressing rooms and was a serious student athlete. This feels like a huge leap to me. You don’t have to see a person naked to know that their body doesn’t look like what social media is showing you.

      Did the author also forget about bathing suits? Spend any amount of time at a pool or a beach, and you’ll know that bodies come in all shapes and sizes.

      I don’t know anyone who was actually exposed more than what you’d be in a bathing suit in a high school changing room or my D1 changing room. You pull your shirt over your bra, which looks like a bikini, and same thing with shorts over underwear.

      I don’t like the idea that people should be exposing their bodies to make others feel more comfortable? Feels like a big reach.

      1. That’s not what the article says or what anyone is actually saying. It’s just pointing out that there is something lost in not having these experiences even if it is understandable why people would be okay with losing that. Not everything is black and white. And yes we can all conceptually understand things and yet still benefit from reminders that Instagram isn’t real life, people use filters, etc.

         1. My parents live in Southern Europe and their gym locker rooms / swimming pool showers are very open. I was struggling with a bra tangled up, and a very old lady came over and tugged the back down for me. I do think there’s virtue in seeing all the bodies on the beach, even as an adult, and certainly think that’s the case for teens as well. I feel like my body confidence has increased at the beach due to regular trips, not in a “I look better than others” way, but because I see all the young and old, slim and heavier people in the water and enjoying themselves.

            1. This. My DH is European and has a much more relaxed attitude about the variety of bodies that exist. He’s always confused that I’m sled conscious about my post kid body.

               Unfortunately the advent of camera phones mean open change rooms are decreasing in many places. Not great the young people in their 20s see only corn bodies.

            2. When I see the elderly Korean ladies at the spa, I aspire to be that unbothered and sociable in my old age.

   7. I feel like the way we view bodies now is much improved upon the past. There was so much toxic anti-fat culture, even when I was a teen in the late 90’s. We had to take group showers after gym class, starting in middle school (so like age 11). I feel like that had no upside at all. Nobody was like oh wow, we’re all beautiful and I feel so normal and at peace with my body shape. It was incredibly awkward at best.

   8. Yeah, I do think it’s weird how afraid people are of being naked. People wear their full gym clothes in the sauna at my gym! Like c’mon, at least just wear a towel.

      1. Not every boundary is about fear. I think it’s weird how pushy people are about forced intimacy.

         1. LOL what a bunch of bs. Forced intimacy?? In the gym sauna? My eyes have rolled so hard they’ve left my head.

            1. Yes. It’s a protestant culture thing generally.

         2. I think it’s weird too. There’s a lot of pressure now to NOT cover up while breastfeeding (in my circles) and it’s inappropriate. Let women do what they feel comfortable with, without comment.

   9. When I was in my early 20’s in grad school I swam at the university pool. It was all strangers around me so I wasn’t embarrassed being naked in the showers and I remember it being a great experience to see naked adult women and being reminded of the different shapes and sizes that we come in. I hope my daughters get the experience that as teens and young adults. But really, just going to the beach or the pool will remind them that not everyone is a supermodel.

      1. Counterpoint: When I was in my early 20s I worked at a college and used the faculty/staff locker room at the gym. I did not appreciate seeing the older women faculty walk around without anything on, basically daring people to look at them. It was rude.

         1. Have also had this experience and did not appreciate it.

         2. Ha, my husband is a professor and one time at the university gym another professor in his department came up to him and started an extended conversation about work stuff while fully nude. I don’t think my husband and I are prudes and I don’t really care about changing in front of other women, but I wouldn’t want to talk to a colleague about work stuff while their private parts were dangling right in front of me!

      2. Grad school swimmer here. The naked women that I saw were literally showering. They were not prancing around the locker room naked. But applying shampoo to their hair and soap to their bodies. No daring of anyone to look. Just doing their business and moving along with their days. It was an old facility and the showers were not private.

   10. but there are a million fashion influencers who insist on starting their tiktoks by being in their underwear. i’m so tired of seeing “midsize moms” (size 8 and tall) in their undies!

       1. This seems like an easy fix. I have never seen it and you can probably avoid/unsubscribe as well?

       2. Our feeds must be very different because I see no moms in undies

   11. That’s interesting, but I am not at all interested in that, nor do I want my kids to deal with that if they don’t want to. Especially if you’re raising and LGBTQ teen, this stuff is really, really fraught.

   12. To me this is just fully “you do you.” I think it’s fantastic that people have access to more privacy for their comfort. I personally don’t mind people seeing my body and feel comfortable changing or showering in open dressing rooms (hell, I made a friend in the showers at a pool in Iceland that I’ve stayed in touch with for over a decade), but that’s a comfort that I developed as an adult, and I totally understand that there’s a wide range of normal feelings about it.

   13. I think there’s a big difference between community locker rooms where all ages mingle and school locker rooms. School locker room nudity is at best not great. But I do think that seeing plenty of normal grown women’s bodies is good for the developing teen self image and there’s pretty much no way to get that in modern America, gotta go to a culture with community bath houses or saunas.

   14. Eh, I don’t really buy this argument. She’s presumably seeing hundreds of normal people in bathing suits and the pool and beach every summer. I don’t know why that wouldn’t counteract the swimsuit model images or why you’d need to see naked people to know what normal bodies look like – bikinis are pretty revealing. Also at least in our schools you still have to change for PE in a group locker room.

   15. Gym locker rooms and other spaces that have ONLY public changing areas will never get my business. If they implement it, I will no longer be a customer.

       Everyone can do what they choose. I choose not to publicly undress. I doubt if I’m the only one out there like that.

       The mention of all sex changing rooms in the article grossed me out. NO.

   16. Can I confess that I love OITNB because it portrayed bodies in all their various forms.

7. I think I need a different winter coat, particularly for going to the playground in DC. I’m so cold all the time! I’m thinking it might be time for me to get one of those long puffer coats (my current parka hits mid-thigh). My problem is I’m about 13 weeks pregnant.

   In the past, I’ve avoided getting a big winter coat with base layers, but maternity versions can be hard to find (and it gets uncomfortable then when I go inside). It also means more layers on my stomach, which I know I’ll find uncomfortable. My last pregnancy ended in the fall, but at the end, I just wore my husband’s old coats (which also worked well for babywearing). None of them go past my thighs, though.

   Anyways, I’m curious what others would do (or have done) in this situation. I’m tempted to just buy a coat that fits me now and would hopefully fit me postpartum, but these coats are so expensive and I’m not having much luck finding one secondhand (to be expected given the season). Based on old photos, I’ll be big but should still just barely fit into my current coats by the end of January (~22 weeks). And then after that, I guess just either hope pregnancy body heat helps me out or suffer a bit or get a coat extender.

   1. few options. one do use a baby carrier? if so buy a coat you think will fit you in march and you’ll wear it next year with the baby in the carrier underneath it. alternatively, does your mom or mother in law or husband have something you could make do with? or look on ebay or something and buy something inexpensive, but buy a coat. it’s only novemeber. there’s a lot of winter left and being cold sucks.

      1. oh, asking my mom is a good idea! I’ll see her in a week.

         My last pregnancy I wore my husband’s coats, both at the end of my pregnancy (mid-fall) and babywearing. I found I was quite warm when babywearing and this baby will be 6+ months by the time it gets cold, so I’m not as worried about having a coat that covers my legs for that (but maybe I should be? Now that I think about it, when I babywore with my first outside, I was almost always walking/in motion…).

         Being cold does suck, and so far, I am not one of those pregnant women who heats up like a furnace!

   2. I’d buy a giant XL lands end stadium coat and use while pregnant and using something like a baby bjorn. Once it is clearly way too large, donate and get something you will like. It’s a great coat for standing around in and not freezing.

      1. Same, except I’d buy the Lands End Women’s FeatherFree Insulated Diamond Quilted Maxi Coat. :) I have that one and love it a lot.

         1. I’m 5-4, 130 pounds (mostly hips and stomach), and run COLD. I have a L LE “warmest” coat because I need to layer beneath it. First, it was playgrounds with kids in a cold / damp climate. Then, a dog that much sniff every blade of grass to target the precise poop spot in the morning before the sun is up. I have a non-down version and it is indestructable and has lots of good pockets.

      2. Just watch the LE sizing. I am 5’8″ and a size 8/10 and weigh 170-190 pounds when not pregnant and pregnant. The Large was so big I sent it back and the M is still borderline too large. I wore the M through my last three pregnancies and still wear it. This coat is the Holy Grail though and will likely be on deep discount this week. The length is ideal. I walk on average 75-120 minutes a day all winter in Ottawa along a river and I frequently have to unzip it because it is so hot.

   3. Yesterday the Moms page featured a coat with a zip-in panel for maternity, that you can zip back out and wear like a regular coat afterwards.

   4. I bought a lovely long maternity coat and never wore it because I was so hot all the time. Our weather is the same as yours, or probably colder because this was several years ago.

      If you end up being cold enough to need a coat, I’d buy a baby wearing coat with the removable panel.

   5. There was a coat on the mom’s page yesterday that has one of those removable maternity extender inserts.

      When I was pregnant, I was plenty warm in my Old Navy maternity puffer, but I also wasn’t standing around for hours at a playground, which is the coldest thing one can possibly do. It doesn’t look like they have one now, but Mountain Warehouse has one, and they have received good reviews on the Mom’s page for affordable winter gear.

      And/or, what about getting a heated vest to wear under a coat? Even if you couldn’t zip it up right now, it might help keep your core warm.

      1. https://www.mountainwarehouse.com/us/maternity-amethyst-womens-long-padded-jacket-p42901.aspx/Black

   6. Get an insulated skirt? Tons of women wear I live wear them in the winter.

   7. I remember going to buy one of those zip-in maternity panels for my puffer coat and they were $$$, so instead I bought a bigger winter coat at Costco for like $30. You don’t even need to be a member to order most things online from them. Buy the nice winter coat later.

      1. This is what I did. Rather than trying to get a forever coat that somehow would work during months 8 and 9 of pregnancy, I bought a Costco coat one size up. I still use it when I’m shoveling snow or whatnot.

   8. Check out on Amazon the Maacie 3-in-1 Winter Coat. It has a zip in extender for pregnancy, a zip in extender to accommodate and infant, and without either of those pieces is a regular winter coat.

   9. Costco coats for the win! Buy one that’s a size or two bigger than normal for your pregnancy and donate it at the end.

      Please don’t try to buy something that will work for late second/early third trimester pregnancy *and* be your dream coat for the next 5+ years. It doesn’t exist.

      1. Costco puffer coats are amazing! Cost me $30 and it is the warmest coat I own.

   10. Go on threadup or Posmark and get a coat.

8. How do Luchese boots run, width-wise? I have two pairs of Justins, and the M width is a hair narrow and their W width is much too wide. My city has a store — worth a trip? I’ve been very good this year (and I know they are spendy, but I have a pair of boots from 1993 that is maybe too worn for the office now).

   1. The store is definitely worth the trip because the fit on Lucchese is important and the boots come in widths.

   2. Definitely go in person. Those boots are very structured and if the fit isn’t perfect you’re in for a lot of pain.

   3. Store is definitely worth a trip. I wouldn’t limit yourself to just Luchese though (unless there is a pair you love) as they are a lot stiffer than Justin’s. I’d also check out some of the local boot stores in your city like Allen Boots in Austin, or any of the many options in DFW or HOU, if you want the more classic leather look. For novelty, I’d look at Fraulein over Miron Crosby – but, that’s just me.

   4. Not a boot person but for something this expensive I would go to a flagship store with boot stretching.

   5. My 2005 Lucchese boots are still going strong! +1 to trying them on in person.

9. I am getting married two and a half days from today! Please share your best wedding advice and marriage advice!

   1. Have a friend designated to tell you if something has gone weird with your outfit. My sleeve was weirdly bunched and belt was slightly off centre, and the photos still annoy me.

      1. Applicable to all photos – straighten your shoulders more than you think you need to (unless you’re already a pro at taking photos). I was way too old before I finally realized that I look better in pictures if my posture is straighter than my normal default.

         Also have a glass of champagne to celebrate (assuming that’s your thing) but so many friends have told me they barely remember their wedding day with all the toasting that it’s probably a good idea to moderate the drinking.

         Congrats!

         1. I just got my wedding photos back and was shocked at how slouched my shoulders look. Definitely be intentional about your posture, even if it feels exaggerated in the moment.

            Have your caterers bring you a big plate of appetizers before you join c-tail hour. During dinner we spent more time mingling with guests than we expected. Ask beforehand if the caterers can wrap up any leftovers for you.

         2. +1 to the posture thing. I felt like I was standing up straight but pictures showed that I wasn’t.

         3. And lower your flowers. Your tendency will be to hold your bouquet right under your chin, so… lower your flowers.

         4. +1!! Tell your photographer it’s okay to remind you to stand up straight!

   2. Congratulations!

      This is a random one, but save your photos somewhere obvious! Ten years later we realized we don’t know where the disc we got from our photographers is, so we only have the 7 or so photos we downloaded on a hard drive and/or uploaded to the cloud!

   3. Wedding- if something goes ‘wrong’ odds are the only people who notice are you / spouse / wedding planner. Agree with the advice about a friend to help spot minor outfit issues.

      Marriage- try to tackle issues as “the two of you against the problem.” And remember for every annoying habit your partner has, you have one too. I leave cabinet doors open. He squeezes toothpaste from the middle. Neither of us nag the other about it.

   4. Wedding advice – If you have an updo, prepare yourself that your wedding night will likely involve your new spouse spending 30 minutes extricating all the pins from your hair then eating room service chicken tenders (or some equivalent).

      1. hahaha YES. My first night as a newlywed involved my new spouse spending 30 minutes undoing all my tiny buttons and then eating room service chicken tenders and watching bad tv.

      2. My drunk husband was defeated by all the tiny beautiful buttons on the back of my dress, and I–not exactly sober myself–couldn’t reach them all. We had to call one of his groomsmen’s wives to come over from next door to remove me from my dress. By the end of that debacle, I couldn’t face the pins, and passed out in my updo.

         OP, have fun and enjoy your day! Things won’t all go according to plan, but none of your guests will care.

   5. Congrats! Make sure you have a plan for pre-wedding food.

      I got married a few years ago and didn’t know that the fancy hotel in my city’s room service closed midday. While getting ready with my friends, we wanted a nice spread of mimosas and snacks and had to settle for Ubereats and Trader Joes candies that my sister rushed over…

   6. congratulations!!!

   7. congrats! have SOOO much fun. don’t drink too much. make sure you eat. the first thing we did as husband and wife was DH helped hold my dress so i could pee. have backup shoes. make sure someone has safety pins (if your dress has a train and the bustle fails)

   8. assign a bridesmaid to be in charge of bringing you water or whatever during the night — stay hydrated! if possible, tell your guests what’s on the dinner menu, either with small placecard menus or a larger poster listing it – mabe it’s me but i think food tastes better when you know what it is.

      for the marriage – congratulations! hopefully not an issue, but if you had a lot of fights or breakups pre-marriage i think you both need to change your mentality from “person you’re dating” to “family.” it’s most important to do after kids, but the wedding is a fine time to start.

   9. Say proper goodbyes and warm hellos every single day when you come and go from the house.

      1. This!! Along with making sure you have at least one solid connection point each day.
         I wake up before DH by several hours. If I am home when he gets up, I get up from my computer, and we have a tight hug/kiss moment and say good morning. If I’m not home or on a call, then we do it when we first see each other for the day. Likewise, unless we are on work calls, when either one of us gets home, the other goes to the garage to welcome the spouse home and help carry if necessary. All of this takes a total of less than 5 minutes per day, but they’re important moments for us that keep us connected. Find your thing and create those tiny traditions and moments of connection every day.

   10. On the day, have a blast and don’t drink too much! I remember going for an early-morning walk by myself, and it was really grounding and put me in a good place mentally and emotionally.

       Don’t stay up too late after the rehearsal dinner!

       Get ALL the candid photos with your loved ones, especially parents, siblings, grandparents, aunts and uncles. You will treasure them even more in 20 years when some of those people are gone.

   11. Congratulations!

       My advice is to nurture each other’s friendships.
       We always default to yes if one of us wants a girls or boys weekend and highly encourage the either to go to brunch or football with their friends. Between family and work obligations it becomes easy for men especially to lose touch with friends and social isolation is really unhealthy. I’m obviously not talking about toxic friends or one sided relationships where he’s out every night and you’re stuck with the kids but as a general rule you should encourage each other to sustain friendships. Some of the most miserable marriages are where one or both parties have no one else to spend time with.

       This also goes for health and hobbies. Life gets crazy and there may come a time when it feels easier to skip the gym or the softball league or the half marathon and you have to remember it’s better in the long run for you both to do these things. I feel sheepish asking my husband to skip town for a few days with the girls or if I can squeeze training for a race into our schedule and the answer is always a resounding encouraging yes particularly because we both want each other to do these things.

       1. Yes, this is such good advice.

   12. For the day of the wedding, two things:

       1. My sister/best woman brought me a cheeseburger while we were getting ready and it was perfect. We were talking with our guests so much that we didn’t eat until very late, so having something filling earlier made all the difference.

       2. You have planned all kinds of details for your wedding, but on the day of, let it all go. Something didn’t happen like you planned, but no one was harmed? Not a problem. At the end of the day, if you walk out married, it was a success! And letting go of the stress is the easiest way to walk out married and happy.

   13. I got married in October 2023.

       Best wedding advice: Be in the moment. The details don’t matter. Your experience with your partner is that you will remember. Move slow, and take it all in.

       Best marriage advice: Remember you need to work at it. Invest in your marriage with your time and energy. Protect it, cherish it, and it will bring you so much joy.

       CONGRATS!

10. Which style of leather jacket do you feel is most versatile for work and personal life?

    1. Allsaints Balfern leather moto or similar. I have other leather jackets that are sleeker and more “professional” but that’s the one I’ve worn consistently over the last two decades. A moto is classic.

11. Which do you prefer: softside or hardside carry-on roller bag? Why?

    I’m looking at the Away hardside or the Travelpro softside and trying to decide which to get.

    1. Travelpro softside. Indestructible.

       1. +1 ours are 10 years old, used 4-5 times a year and look like new.

       2. +1

       3. +1. Two wheels for a carry-on, four wheeler spinner for a large checked bag.

       4. +1 Mine’s also 10 years old and still going strong. I use mine a few times a month, so definitely doesn’t look new anymore, but still works like new!

    2. I prefer a hardside if i’m packing for a work trip or anywhere where i’m trying to keep things unrumpled. I prefer a soft bag if i’m packing for my kids or gym clothes, etc. I have an away and i like it a lot. I will say though that they are very popular and amazon has a knock off that looks very similar meaning there are a lot of them out there even if you think you ordered a less common color. we were away a few weeks ago and we had had to gate check the bags and we got them at the luggage pick up and were most of the way out the door when my husband got a call from the man who had his (identical) bag. definitely need stickers or ribbons or something to distinguish.

       1. +1 to this. I ordered luggage tags to help distinguish mine.

    3. Travelpro softside have held up very well to heavy use.

    4. Travelpro softside. The hard shells can crack so, counterintuitively, the softside ones are more durable. I also like having more pockets to organize all the little things; my non-Away hardside is just a big box on wheels.

    5. I have both and prefer my hard sides (Away and Delsey). Hard sides are lighter which matters a lot to me and I’ve noticed that hard sides either fit in the overhead bins or they don’t, it’s immediately apparent. There is none of the kerfuffle of trying to jam an overstuffed soft side into a bin with the zippers and pockets catching on the edges, etc.

    6. Hard for carry-on, soft if it will ever get checked.

    7. Travelpro softside (and I prefer 2 wheels not ) in two sizes have served me very well over many years of travel (including to off-the-beaten-track places).

12. invited to a law firm family holiday party at a country club (DH’s employer is a client) and the dress code is “holiday western chic” (we’re in Houston, but not from here). it’s on a sunday around brunch time. the event includes activities for kids such as pony rides, cuddling with puppies and miniature cows, along with other outdoor messyish sounding stuff – to me those activities and chic dont really go together, but apparently they do. what do i wear? and what do i put our kids in? (two early elementary school aged daughters)

    1. I think cowboy boots if you have them?

       1. I am picturing plaid dresses with cowboy boots and big hairbows.

    2. I’d go buy something Tartan from the Jcrew factory site. This is cute for you (with boots) and then the kids/your husband can coordinate in jeans or jean skirts:
       https://factory.jcrew.com/p/womens/categories/clothing/dresses/long-sleeve-dresses/tartan-mini-shirt-dress/CP787?display=standard&fit=Classic&color_name=tartan&colorProductCode=CP787

    3. sorry also should’ve added that we are jewish and so i dont love too much ‘christmassy’ looking stuff bc it is out of place for us to wear otherwise in our circles. and i have foot problems so cant wear boots :-(. It also could be anywhere from 45-85 degrees. Today the humidity is 73%. it is very hard to plan outfits in this city!

       1. Dark blue, metallic, or winter white “festive winter” wear would work. Around animals you are really going to want your kids in some sort of boots, even if they aren’t cowboy boots.

       2. I’m also Jewish and lean into metallics, velvet, or sparkles. If you don’t have a holiday appropriate dress maybe jeans, a festive top, fun jewelry, and whatever boot-like shoes you can handle.

    4. This sounds like a non-ugly holiday sweater, nice jeans, and cowboy boots.

    5. This sounds really fun as a mom of a two year old. Wish my firm did something like this. I’d just wear boots and some plaid and call it a day— especially if I’m a client.

    6. Double denim and a festive bolo tie

    7. Houston specific recs – for the kids, go to Cavendars (better selection than boot barn) to pick up matching cowboy boots. You should be able to find a pair for under $100. Buy them so that they will still fit for Go Texan day in February. Then put them plaid shirts with jeans. For you, it’s tricker. I’d probably explore some boot options because these sorts of events will keep coming up. I’m partial to shorter boots, and honestly, there is no shame in looking in the guys section too as they will be wider.

13. DC people – is everything re-open and functioning as normal? metro, museums, etc?

    1. Yes, everything is open. Metro was normal the whole time. Parking lots are full, everyone is back downtown.

    2. Yes everything is back to normal (except I have not gotten my backpay yet….)

    3. Of course the metro wasn’t impacted by the shut down.

    4. Why would the metro have been affected . . .

14. Can someone make me a shopping list please? I’m hosting a casual get together next week. I haven’t been a drinker for several years (for heath reasons, I just can’t), but I have no issue with people drinking around me. I went into my liquor cabinet and realized that it really needs a refresh if I’m going to be having a party. If you were stocking a wine/liquor cabinet from scratch for a party of 20-25 people from ages 35-45, what would you buy? Suggestions on beer would also be appreciated!

    I’m okay with spending a bit of money because hosting more often in 2026 is a goal, but I’m also not a person who is going to get a great deal of enjoyment out of a $500 bottle of whiskey, so that probably doesn’t make much sense for me.

    1. I would have wine, sparkling wine, beer, and a signature drink or two rather than trying to stock a full bar for everyone to have their favorite hard liquor. And some fancy NA stuff like Olipop because a lot of people like to moderate their drinking in this age group.

       1. I’m likely to pick a NA option unless it’s a prebiotic. Please just stick to soda and seltzer for this! Those prebiotic drinks have all sorts of unpleasant side effects

          1. +1

          2. +1000. Just have Pellegrino. Or La Croix.

             Also agree that you do not need to fully stock a bar.

             1. +1 for the sparkling water — I went to a party this weekend, and the host ran out because there was less alcohol consumed than anticipated, but far more sparkling water…

          3. Yes. I stay far away from Olipop, Poppi, all that stuff. At least I know how alcohol will make me react, lol.

    2. I wouldn’t fully stock a bar. If you really want to serve drinks, get some red wine, some white wine, and some beer. If you want to level up, make a batch of one c-tail.

       1. +1. I wouldn’t expect a full part at a party in someone’s home.

    3. I would have beer, wine, and whiskey on hand for general purposes and then maybe have ingredients for one signature or festive cocktail.

    4. Agree. Beer, wine (red, white, sparkling), and a signature cocktail or two. Plus sparkling water, of course, and soda pop if your crowd likes that.

       1. Oh, and for beer, my husband likes Stella Artois. Or if there’s a local beer in your town, get that.

    5. There are now SO many canned cocktail options that I would lean into those. Like get the standard fixings for gin and tonics and vodka sodas, some wine and champagne, some High Noons, and then get a bunch of 6-pack or 4-packs of things like pre-made Aperol Spritzes, margaritas, palomas, etc.

15. Epstein files release – what are everyone’s thoughts on what will happen next? One assumes there won’t be enough to implicate Trump in a crime. How will we even know if they hold some back?

    1. It doesn’t matter, the files won’t change anything. Just look at all the trumpers who post here. The public has lost the plot, it’s okay to harm women and child. Enjoy your family, eat snacks and hope you don’t get swept up in a concentration camp.

       1. Maybe L*rry S*mmers will go down at least!

       2. i’m actually starting to be convinced that majority of politicians have done something unscrupulous – the severity of which varies. i DESPISE Trump, but you also could not pay me to be president of this country or a politician and it’s not really something i hope for my children either. i think that fundamentally someone who is willing to take on being in the public eye, the significant pressure, the big impactful decisions, etc. cannot just be a ‘normal’ every day kind of person

          1. Totally agree with you. In fact, if the list of people in the files is ever released I think I’ll be more surprised by who is NOT on it than who is at this point.

    2. Hopefully, we collectively will be able to move on. The man is dead; Maxwell is in jail; this is wonderful fodder for any civil suits any victim may want to bring against any perpetrator. Maybe the rest of us can spend our energy focused on rising food insecurity at a time where food bank funding is dramatically declining (or whatever other broad spectrum social problem breaks your heart; that one is mine).

       1. This comment seems either very sheltered or very comfortable with wealthy men escaping accountability. Children need food and also not to be trafficked among wealthy men.

          1. Wealthy people, in general, are more likely to escape accountability than not. There’s only so much energy to go around. Once everything is released and we know what’s what, we can do what we need to and move on. I’m with Anonymous on this one.

             1. Let’s fix that. The legal and court system in USA assumes an equality that doesn’t exist.

             2. Huh?

          2. He is dead. She is in jail. I specify that civil actions can and should proceed. Which part of that is “very comfortable with wealthy men escaping accountability,” and what specifically do you think continued collective attention will do that the extreme amount of prior collective attention has not?

             1. Why the focus on civil actions and on the past? Do we think all this stopped one day just because one trafficker got caught?

             2. Because criminal cases likely have statute of limitations issues.

                Yes, I think the issue of abuse happening on Epstein’s private island ended when Epstein no longer had a private island.

             3. I’m very fine with getting people on crimes they did more recently at other destinations. If they really stopped, great. But what are the odds.

             4. That, thankfully, is not how the legal system works.

             5. It’s normal to investigate people suspected of crimes. Maybe if some of the people involved in covering up crimes lose their job, people who are serious about it will make progress. It’s really not okay how much trafficking is supported by US $ in general.

             6. No, we do not identify people we want to find a crime for and then follow them until we see them commit one. We start with the crime. I have no idea how you think you could investigate someone in this way given that you could not establish a basis for a subpoena or warrant without reasonable suspicion of a specific crime.

                Frankly, your suggestion reeks of too much time on the internet and not enough time actually learning about the fundamental principles of criminal law. It’s kinda Tumblr-level thinking.

             7. If there’s no crime, great. If there is a crime, it shouldn’t be covered up because of who committed it. This isn’t that hard.

                And “move on” is what complicit adults in this country always love to say about community members who predated on children.

          3. Also, if you accept a wide definition of victim, Epstein had perhaps a thousand. Probably less. There are 13.8 *million* children who are food insecure in this country. That is 13,800x more children. Surely it deserves at least 2x your attention at this point.

             1. Food insecurity has been through most of history, but whole regimes have changed over elites rubbing impunity for sxual violence in people’s faces.

             2. Yes, there have been absolutely no regime changes or social unrest caused by mass food insecurity ever. Never. Not one.

       2. I see you don’t hold your beloved president accountable

          1. “…fodder for any civil suits any victim may want to bring against any perpetrator…”

       3. I can donate and support my local food bank while also being concerned that many wealthy, powerful people participated in really heinous crimes.

          1. Which one are you doing today?

             1. My recurring donation to the food bank should go thru this week or next – is that good enough for you? Are you so sure that people can only focus on a single issue at a time?
                Also Maxwell is in jail but is actively seeking commutation.

             2. I’m quite sure your “attention” is only actually having any effect whatsoever for one of these issues, unless you are a government official, attorney who handles cases like this, or a victim or relative of a victim. If you’re just an average person, there are better things to pay attention to at this point even narrowly within the trafficking sphere. The benefits of massive public attention have already accrued on this one; start trying to find the next one and turn your attention there.

             3. And? She was convicted. Whatever the president does re commutation does not mean that the justice system didn’t act. Not every situation works itself out the way it should.

    3. Not much of substance will happen.

       Of course the damaging stuff has been redacted. Remember Trump’s 100 FBI agents scouring the files for weeks for any mention of Trump at the beginning of the year? The Republicans would never suddenly vote to release if Trump was at risk.

       Now if the video tapes were ever released, that would be something. But they likely have been destroyed and Trump would just say “fake” anyway.

    4. Go ahead and release the files, but nothing is going to happen. Maybe a few powerful people will be taken down a notch, but I doubt it, given who our leader is.

16. What do you do to get in touch with yourself when you have to make big decisions? Call a certain friend? Go to church? Walk in nature? I’ve done pros and cons, I’ve mapped out trajectories, I’ve projected out finances. But those are very analytical approaches, and I think I need to get in touch with what my intuition or feelings are about my options. My personal issue has implications for my family, so I want to consult my intuition about this, not just do a quantitative analysis.

    1. Talk to a friend or trusted advisor who will ask the right questions, the kind of questions that draw out your own intuition and preferences. If that kind of person is not available, try on each decision for 24 hours. Tell yourself you’ve decided one way and then see how you react. Then switch.

    2. After you’ve done the research portion and feel like you have the pertinent info, there’s something to be said for flipping a coin. Your gut reaction when you see the result can tell you a lot about your true preference. (Obviously you don’t have to follow what the coin says, but forcing the decision point can clarify your feelings.)

       1. This is where I fall. Logic can only take me so far. The one time I made a very large decision ruthlessly following the logical path? That is the one time I definitely knew ahead of time that it was the wrong option, and I regretted it the entire time. On paper, it was by far the better option. Emotionally, it nearly destroyed me. It took me two years to unwind that mess.

          OP – can you role play with yourself, or with a friend? Be honest, pretend you are further down the road in each path and describe what you feel, whether you have regrets, and don’t answer from a place of what you think you should say, but rather what your immediate reaction is.

    3. Depends on what I am considering doing. I usually go to the person who I respect for those types of decisions, or who know me well.

    4. It could be that there is no glaring downside to either decision so you’re putting unnecessary pressure on yourself; maybe you can’t screw this up?

    5. Long bike rides are where my best ideas and decisions evolve.

       1. For me it’s a walk and talk!

    6. I’ve found it helpful to walk in a labyrinth. You can find labyrinths in the most unexpected places. Here’s a labyrinth locator. https://labyrinthlocator.org

       1. Thanks for sharing this resource!

    7. Meditate. Do a tarot pull. Meditate again. Forest bathe.

    8. I’m definitely a “spend time alone outside” kind of person. I also journal about it as though I’ve already decided from multiple different perspectives and reflect on which one felt most comfortable.

    9. Flip a coin- heads is option A, tails is option B.
       Once the coin is flipped, feel whatever your initial reaction is (excitement, disappointment, fear, joy) and write that down. You don’t need to follow through with the coin’s decision, but you should imagine what your life would be like if you did.

17. What’s the difference between “color” and “colorway”? I’m confused by the description of the shirt above. And while I’m feeling confused, what makes it a “tomboy” shirt? Is it different from a “boyfriend” shirt? and what makes a shirt a “boyfriend” shirt? Halp!

    1. “Colorway” is a combination of colors. I usually think of it in reference to knitting patterns.

    2. Heh I always feel like the difference between “color” and “colorway” is the price!

    3. I think colorway comes from the design world, where a wallpaper pattern in the gold colorway has a mix of gold, yellow, and blush, while in the blue colorway it mixes blue, teal, and white. But lots of people have started to pick up the term and use it when the plain ol’ word “color” used to be used.

       Boyfriend alludes to “borrowed it from your boyfriend.” A boyfriend shirt or jeans will have a cut that is looser/larger, not tailored or fitted.

       Tomboy is probably because some marketing person at Sezanne named it that.

    4. One is the term pretentious people use to mean the word color, and the other is the word color.

18. I completely agree

19. As a European I was baffled by the way American women would hide their bodies while changing

    1. Same,
       I was reading the comments in the OP and thinking “That must be something cultural”

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