Splurge Monday’s Workwear Report: Traceable Wool Slim Straight-Leg Trousers
Our daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices.
Sometimes, in the coldest, darkest days of winter, you just need a pair of hot pink pants to get you through the day. These trousers from Theory also come in three lovely neutrals, but they’re not going to give you the same pep in your step.
I would wear these with an ivory sweater for a cheery, business casual look.
The pants are $215 at Neiman Marcus and come in sizes 00-16.
Some reliable spots to check for wool pants in 2025 include Loft, Talbots*, Brooks Brothers, Aritzia, and Saks and Nordstrom (with options from brands like Theory and Vince). If you're looking for soft, warm wool pants, also keep an eye out for Italian wool options like those from J.Crew*. (Check the asterisks for plus sizes!)
Sales of note for 1/1/25 (HAPPY NEW YEAR!):
- Nordstrom – The Half-Yearly Sale has started — up to 60% off! See our roundup here.
- AllSaints – Now up to 60% off (some of the best leather jackets!)
- Ann Taylor – Semi Annual Sale! Up to 40% off your purchase; extra 60% off 3+ styles
- Banana Republic Factory – The Winter Sale: 50% off everything + extra 60% off clearance
- Boden – Sale, up to 60% + extra 10% — readers love this blazer, these dresses, and their double-layer line of tees
- DeMellier – Sale now on, free shipping and returns — includes select options like Montreal, Vancouver, and Venice
- Eloquii – Semi-annual clearance, up to 85% off; extra 60% off clearance
- Everlane – Sale of the year, up to 70% off — reader favorites include their scoop tee, Dream Pant, ReNew Transit backpack, silk blouses and their oversized blazers!
- J.Crew – 25% off full-price styles; up to 50% off cashmere; 70% off 3+ sale styles
- J.Crew Factory – 60% off winter faves; extra 25% off $100+
- L.K. Bennett – All sale half price or less
- M.M.LaFleur – 30% on almost everything with code
- Rothy's – End of season sale, up to 50% off fall and winter styles
- Sephora – Extra 20% off sale items for Beauty Insider members
- Spanx – Lots of workwear on sale, some up to 70% off, plus free shipping on everything (and 20% off your first order)
- Summersalt – BOGO sweaters, including this reader-favorite sweater blazer
- Talbots – Semi-Annual Red Door Sale – 40% off + 25% off, sale on sale!
- Universal Standard – 25 styles for $25, 1/1 only
What’s something youre excited about or proud of from this past year? And something you’re excited about or will be proud of or looking forward to in 2025?
I’m proud that in 2024 I landed my dream job and was able to really re-build my savings (I’m paying my way through grad school and had an expensive year medically in 2023).
I’m excited that in 2025 I am scheduled to graduate from grad school and take my first trip in 4 years. I’m also working with a dietician now so hoping to take off my grad school stress / medical issue 15 lb weight gain.
I’m proud that I finally left my toxic previous job and landed in a new one that’s wonderful. I’m also proud of the enormous strides I have made in therapy this year. In 2025 I’m looking forward to continue building a life that’s really mine and reflects who I am and what I enjoy. For various reasons that has been lacking in recent years.
I’ve lost over 40 pounds during 2024. I welcomed a baby granddaughter in May. I celebrated with several dear friends at the marriages of their children.
In 2025, I’m looking forward to a ten-day trip to France with my partner. I’m also looking forward to watching my granddaughter grow and spending time with her.
Surviving. Seriously. Major medical event in 2023 so making it to the one year mark in 2024 was a very big deal.
I am proud that I undertook a very serious job hunt in 2024, did not settle, and got a great job at the end of this year. I am also proud that I maintained and deepened a serious relationship this year. I am looking forward to accomplishing some hard things at work in 2025 and hoping to get back in a good exercise routine, which will definitely help my mental health and, hopefully, as a result, take off some weight I put on in the last two years.
I am proud of myself for making the call to move closer to my office to improve my quality of life even though it involved selling and buying a house during a period in which I had three work trips and a breakup! The house needed work and I knew this and so far it HAS been, but I regret nothing. I am 6 mins from my office on the worst day and it makes my life so much less stressful (I have old
dogs and lots of hobbies).
In 2025, I am looking forward to getting back into doing some races next year in one of my hobbies in a really beautiful place (spontaneous sign up), volunteering again, taking on some new but interesting to me responsibilities at work, and just generally getting back to me and living my now (and for a while) single life the way I want to in a way that is true to who I am.
I guess I’m in survival mode, but I’m proud that I made it through the year as a solo mom (not by choice) of a toddler while working full time as an equity partner in a struggling practice and firm. Was it great? No. Did toddler and I eat a nutritious, home cooked meal at the dining table every night? Also no. But we made it through.
For 2025, I’m excited that I got a new road bike and will plan to get a sitter some Saturday mornings so I can get out with my old cycling club for some rides, and maybe feel a little more like a whole person rather than just a mom and worker bee. First I have to get in shape to be able to keep up with them though.
Well done.
Love this thread!
I’m proud that in 2024 I earned an MFA and completed my middle grade novel.
I’m looking forward to revising and querying agents in 2025. Wish me luck!
In 2024, I passed my 1st of 4 CPA exams! I also traveled and spread my grandparents ashes somewhere beautiful.
In 2025, I’m studying and sitting for the remaining 3 exams. I’m excited, but also nervous! It’s a challenge to be vulnerable and admit that I’m afraid of failure.
I am in my early 50s. My metabolism is all over the place. I go on walks, but am not otherwise terribly active except for a weekend hike here and there (which is how the last 7 years have been, but without the size drama). But I can drop a size in what seems like a week and gain it back like that also. All mid-section weight it seems — I would buy a spendy jacket but have cheap black pants in 3 sizes, which is a PITA. I hope sheath dresses never come back; I am firmly on Team Shift now. I hate to be constantly shopping, but it’s easier than changing anything else in my life right now. Is this just how it is as we age? If I had unlimited time and energy I would love to be a gym rat.
I’m almost 40 and any pants I buy are required to have back elastic and belt loops.
I try to eat better and my stomach just puffs out, like it can’t handle the volume of roughage. And then the gas pains. I should just live on ice cream.
My whole household has (different!) GI conditions for which fiber and roughage are discouraged. We don’t live on ice cream, but I feel like we go through a lot of yogurt so maybe it’s kind of the same idea.
Fat doesn’t come and go that quickly, not in quantities that would affect how clothes fit, so I’d assume this was water retention or bloating of some kind. I don’t think it’s just aging, but would wonder if it’s aging + fibroids or aging + hypochlorhydria, etc. since aging increases the risk of a lot of treatable issues.
Honestly? I’m 42 and a prescription for compounded semiglutide has allowed me to nearly effortlessly drop ten pounds, feel like myself again and completely stop obsessing over food and weight. I’ve read people here vilifying the use of this drug for 10 or 20 pounds but it’s amazing. Guess what? I can use my limited physical and emotional energy to enhance my life is ways that have nothing to do with food and weight.
Will you still feel that way about those 10 pounds if it comes out that there are horrible side effects? That’s what’s keeping me from it, despite feeling as though I would look and feel better if I was 10-15 pounds lighter. Is it worth it when it inevitably ends up as part of a mass tort lawsuit?
These meds aren’t new; it’s just an expanded indication. They have some known issues, but I don’t think we’re likely to be blindsided?
Ironic :). Studies are know linking Ozempic to blindness :(.
Hah. It might make sense to ask one’s ophthalmologist about whether cupless optic nerve is a pre-existing risk factor!
There are a number of rare complications associated with GLP-1s. They still lower risk of very common disorders so dramatically that a cost/benefit analysis is going to favor them for a lot of people (even just literally in terms of healthcare costs). Most people are at much greater risk of the conditions they help prevent or treat than of the conditions they may contribute to.
I guess the answer is of course I’ll regret it if and when I suffer some awful side effect. But the bigger issue is why everyone likes to pretend that will be some moral comeuppance. I have three choices: resign myself to a body and life that made me miserable, dedicate my life to overriding the biological drive to eat, or try these drugs. I’d done one and two and vastly prefer the third.
@1:01 Sorry can I ask did losing that 10 pounds really move your life from miserable to something else (happy?). Like what really changed (sincerely asking)?
I’m not tall so it’s a big ten pounds, maybe closer to twelve now! It makes me technically a normal bmi. I know bmi isnt perfect but I’m not crazy muscular or unusually shaped in any way that would make me an outlier. That line, that healthy bmi line is huge for me. My clothes fit better and I like looking in the mirror. People are nicer. I’m not ignored in stores. No one has asked if I’m pregnant this year (happened twice last year.) I can sleep on my stomach again. My planter fasciitis is gone. My gardening life has been resurrected from the dead. (My husband will never admit but he’s attracted to me again now.)
I spend zero time counting calories, getting angry at myself or counting the hours until I can eat. I’m not going to have a weight related resolution this year. It’s like nothing to pass up sweets. There’s zero mental energy that goes into eating and not eating and I don’t want to cry when I’m hungry anymore. I don’t call myself names in my head anymore. No one lectures me about going vegan or gluten free or when they do I don’t care. It’s just such a freedom to feel like myself again and have the mental space for non food decisions. And yeah 10 pounds is nothing in tall women but it’s huge for me.
@2:40 thanks for this, I too am at that BMI line and trying to get motivated (though not ready for meds).
For some of us, a few pounds can make a difference. I’m on the smaller side, and I’ve found that even going down about 5 pounds makes my heartburn go away, my BP gets a little better, and I just generally feel better.
Am I going to take Ozempic to maintain a 5lb weight loss? No, probably not. But a weight loss doesn’t need to be huge to have an effect for some people.
Yeah especially for someone who is short, 10 lb can be a big difference medically (re. sleep apnea, PCOS, bloodwork, etc.).
Same, except I lost 40 lbs and have kept it off. My best friend, who is significantly heavier than me at my heaviest and whose life is ruled by body-image issues, refuses to try them because “it seems like cheating”. Huh? Is there a judge that’s going to tell me that because I lost weight without working out that I somehow did it wrong.
Anon at 1:40 – ten pounds for me is the difference between 12p and 14p. Finding a 14P suit is a unicorn as the few stores that carry petites don’t go up to 14P! I don’t judge anyone for using Ozempic but I am afraid to try it myself. That said, I used Chantix to quit smoking and it was a miracle drug for me. To each her own.
Add a daily probiotic. It can really help with bloating.
Just here to say I am thinking of anyone who is having a tough holiday season this year! My dad is on hospice, so things are looking a little different. Still trying to make all the holiday magic happen for my young kids, and I just got back to work after mat leave. Extra thankful for my very patient and kind husband and I am trying to stay positive despite the general chaos.
I can’t help feeling down that my (self-admitted) narcissistic brother who talks a big game about family reunions responded with “we’re pretty booked up but I’ll let you know if that changes” when I suggested he come visit our newborn for the first time while he’s in my city for over two weeks. Why is it that the rest of a season can feel positive and happy but one negative interaction can weigh on you, even when you know better than to expect more from certain people?
Hugs to you. Some years are hard. My husband said something like “in some ways, it was a good year” and honestly that’s the best we’ve been able to say for a really long time. It helps us to lower the bar. We try and be happy for everyone who sends a happy go lucky but super bragging card about their successes and accomplishments but we’re clear eyed, sober and cautiously optimistic that the year was good, in some ways.
Any tips to make the holidays less stressful? I realized I low key dread the second half of December and would love any suggestions. Here’s what I came up with for this year:
– We sleep over one night maximum at each set of parents’ homes and clearly communicate this in advance
– Any dishes we bring to parties can be cooked the night before or morning of then refrigerated
– DH is responsible for acquiring boxes, wrapping paper, and gift wrapping the presents for his family members who think gift bags are lazy
– Next year we’re becoming a pre-lit fake tree household
I have a newborn now but one thing I want to do in the future when he’s old enough is start a new tradition of renting a cabin and skiing on Christmas morning. What would make Christmas fun for you and not something to be endured? You have good ideas for taking the edge off the pain points, but what would be something fun to look forward to?
it sounds like your stress is about family expectations! how far are you from each family – can you day-trip even if it makes for a long day? and in my house, DH would be telling those family members that their choice is a gift bag or no gift, which would they prefer?
So far, I’m enjoying this holiday season more than any others, and I think it comes down to three things (two controllable, one not):
– I told my family that I was putting up my “out of office” message for all “have tos,” on Friday, December 20 @ 5PM. Past that point, if it hadn’t been purchased, wrapped, addressed, or acquired, they were on their own. I am officially in the moment since then, and if it brings me joy, I’m doing it. If not, and it could have been done before Dec. 20, it’s not getting done or bought this year.
2. I stopped drinking alcohol at home on Dec. 1. I still enjoy a beverage when I’m out and about at events, but I’ve stocked up on holiday tea, ginger ale plus cranberry juice, and sparkling water. I’m much less sluggish than I was last year, and it’s helped me feel a little healthier during a busy season of indulgence.
3. Have kids over 5, who are capable of going on my amazon account, ordering what they need for friends, family, wrapping their own gifts for their friends and family, help cook and wash dishes, and who can chill at home without much intervention from me. Looking back, I wish I wouldn’t have bent over backwards to make magic for kids under 3. I’m thrilled I leaned in hard for age appropriate magic (with lower cooking and eating expectations) between ages 4 and 8 (so visiting Santa in a sensory overload at the city tree lighting, but not trying to force them to eat anything other than pasta and chicken nuggets). And now with 9 and 11, I’m loving their excitement around food traditions.
I absolutely love fake trees! I grew up in a real tree house, have a real tree vibe (I think), and fake trees are so so so much easier, chiller, tidier and more sustainable (as long as you keep them for a long time).
I think I failed to submit this properly, but my three things are this:
1) On Dec. 1, I told my family I put up my “out of office” for family admin jobs on Dec. 20, and after that point, I was not buying, wrapping, mailing, addressing, etc. anything else. And then I actually did stop. It was a good mental check point to treat the Dec. “to-dos” like an actual work deadline. I reminded them of the deadline a few times, and we all did a really good job of finishing the “busy” work before the deadline.
2) I stopped drinking alcohol at home on Dec. 1. I’ll make an exception for Christmas Eve and Christmas Day dinner, but I’ve leaned into holiday tea, ginger ale and cranberry juice, and sparkling water. I feel less sluggish, and I don’t snack as much. I will still indulge at work events/social outings, but I’m feeling SO much healthier this year than I did last year.
3) Have kids over 5, ha. I regret twisting myself in knots when they were under 3 to do legit anything holiday related. I leaned in hard to holiday “outings” at ages 4-8, but leaned waaaaaay out on any food expectations (so, sure, go see Santa at a city tree lighting, but I’m not trying to force a fancy meal after all that sensory overload. pasta + chicken nuggets are just fine – same with holiday meals, I don’t care if you only eat pasta at Christmas dinner, just eat something). And, now, at ages 9 and 12, my kids buy gifts for friends and family on our family Amazon account, and they help wrap family gifts/the gifts they buy for our family. They also help with all the cooking of special family meals and do dishes. 10 out of 10, would recommend.
*apologies if this posts twice!
It’s perfectly okay to celebrate a holiday in the way you and your family want to. Try something new and make your own traditions if you’re so inclined.
– DH is responsible for all gifts for his family—asking for ideas, purchasing , wrapping, bringing.
– I make a Christmas cookie batch or two every weekend between thanksgiving and Christmas and freeze. That way I have a bunch on 12/25 and any time I need a variety plate. I like doing it with the kids but this spreads it out—if I have to work on a last minute thing for work, I can skip a weekend and still feel like I made fun memories with the kids.
– fake tree (not prelit, though)
– no real decorations besides the tree. They’re nice and all, I just don’t really care?
– Christmas Eve and day are always at my house. We go to family the weekend before or after or they come to us. After driving around from one family to another on Christmas Day in an ice storm with toddlers in the car, never again. Goal is to be in PJs all day 12/25
– I am very intrigued by a recipe for make ahead and freeze cinnamon rolls, haven’t explored that yet. For now I make them on Christmas Eve for the morning of 12/25 to eat.
My husband and I did the “you’re responsible for your family and I’m responsible for mine” thing from day one. We kept to it even though it often meant his family didn’t get gifts or cards from us (not like they were sending us any) and I kept gifting and carding my siblings and niblings. Sometimes he felt a certain way about that and I was happy for him to choose and send them something, but I wasn’t willing to take it on for him so it just never happened.
We’re fine. His family is fine.
I struck this deal with my husband about 20 years ago. It means his siblings and niblings haven’t received cards and gifts and mine have. I don’t feel bad about it. We both work full time. I made this division clear to his family years ago and haven’t heard a peep.
Girl. Gift bags are lazy? WTAF is that nonsense. Just stop giving into people who are crazy. Tell your husband to put everything in a gift bag. And you don’t need to spend the night anywhere you don’t want to. You are the boss of your life. Start taking control of it.
– My best years, I’ve finished shopping in October and finished wrapping in November. Just getting that one large job out of the way early makes the holidays much less stressful. (This does not happen every year and absolutely did not happen this year. I have one present waiting to be wrapped.)
– We have a list in Paprika labeled “holidays” with easy recipes we’re already familiar with. We pick and choose depending on the occasion and the group we’re celebrating with. We only try new recipes if we have extra to give that year (and it’s usually between Christmas and New Years). One of “my” recipes is Ghiradelli box-mix brownies, which my nieces go absolutely crazy for.
– DH and I have a traditional Christmas date every December. We get a babysitter, dress up, go downtown to see the pretty decorations, and make a fabulous dinner reservation.
– I watch a lot of Christmas movies and other Christmas specials all month long. Usually, I watch the really bad ones and just turn my brain all the way off.
– When my son was younger, after a disastrous Christmas Eve, I set firm boundaries on how much we could do and how long we could be at a relatives house. (My son is ND and easily overstimulated and used to have violent meltdowns.) One year, it was “one gathering per day, 1.5 hrs each gathering.” I made my MIL choose between us being there for dinner OR for gifts. It’s totally reasonable to say you need to be home for nap time, or that you’ll drive in after opening presents at your house or whatever works for your immediate family. And it doesnt have to be forever. Now my kid is older (9) and doing great, and we can easily do apps and gifts with MIL and go have dinner with her extended family, for a grand total of 6 hours.
You can further simplify this IMO:
– no overnights, just daytime visits (assuming driving distance is reasonable)
– buy premade food. Why stress cooking at all?
– tell your husband he can do whatever he wants but that gift bags are perfectly fine and to ignore the rude comments.
I decided a few years ago that my immediate family is now a big Christmas eve and sweatpants and laziness Christmas day family. Both my husband and I’s families are super local so it seems easy but dragging kids around to two different Christmas parties always resulted in cranky kids …and adults.
As for that Xmas eve party? We invite everyone. We pour champagne and nice Bordeaux. We play fun non Xmas music. The house is beautiful and we welcome everyone with a huge hug and a huge heart. But we don’t stress. I’m having it catered. All my cousins kids get the same gift. I put the Christmas spode in the dishwasher.
I do all my shopping either online or at the kind of upscale places where you can sit in a couch while the staff actually helps you. I also make sure that Christmas shopping is fun, I get a treat for myself and whatever kiddo tags along. After that I just let it go. There is no perfect gift, it’s not the best or only way to say I love you. I buy my favorite candles in case I forget someone.
I love our Xmas cards but otherwise I do absolutely zilch in terms of documenting the holiday for social media or otherwise. I’ve done precisely zero to perpetuate the santa myth. I laugh at the thought of holiday baking. I hate Christmas movies with the notable exception of elf, so I don’t need to listen to Christmas story constantly in the background.
Recommendations for a black professional laptop backpack for work? I have a 15″ laptop which limits options. I have been using a Kenneth Cole Sophie backpack and loved it until the nylon edges are already frayed after only 1 year of use.
https://www.tumi.com/p/celina-backpack-01465662693/
Thanks, Cat! Too bad the black isn’t on sale. Do you know if they typically do any sales after Christmas?
Might be included in some types of friends & family discounts – like Neiman Marcus will sometimes do a spend X get money back in store credit.
Check out Minkee Blue, a Black woman-owned business (and at least some of its bags are vegan, if your care about that). I have a laptop tote that has been in daily use for five years and the handles are only just now starting to show very slight wear; I’ve been very happy with it. They have a couple of professional backpack styles.
Thank you!
Going to London in the spring with my 11 year old and looking for ideas on what to do/see there!
Fun! Tell us more about what made you pick London so we can give ideas suited to you. Offhand, I suggest some kind of walking tour, something artsy (Tate, Portrait Gallery, Ballet), something historic (Westminster, Tower of London), and afternoon tea!
what are they into? ranges from the Harry Potter experience (book well ahead) to the Tower (timing it for a Beefeater tour totally worth it) to touring historic palaces to shows, classic things like Changing of the Guard, going to the prime meridian, taking a Thames cruise…
Afternoon tea! London has lots of fun themed ones for kids.
I remember learning about the Jurassic-themed tea at Ampersand Hotel from an author I follow, though I haven’t been. It sounds fun for kids!
Piggybacking on this as I posted late before the weekend and got limited replies, I’m going at the coldest/wettest time early next year and was looking for unique /not usual touristy stuff to do as a 40 year old highly traveled person.
For kitschy fish and chips, Poppies (near Borough Market) is like an English Johnny Rockets.
Borough Market
The London Transport Museum
I enjoyed the Churchill War Rooms (but I’m into WWII history)
I haven’t been myself, but a friend recommended The Dennis Severs House Museum; it looks great.
The Royal Air Force museum. We took the tube there and then walked a couple of blocks to the museum. Seems like a museums that only locals go to. We loved it.
How do you deal with a micromanager boss? My boss is a next level micromanager. I have 20 years experience and have stellar performance reviews, boss loves my work, but he can’t seem to help himself from micromanaging and it is driving me insane. An example (one of many) is that I negotiated and prepared an agreement, got it executed, and after it was complete he emailed me to remind me to save the document in our shared document library (which I always do as a matter in of course without any need for a reminder). Another example is that he is very persnickety about PTO. I’ve been working around the clock recently on items that have a year-end deadline (nights, weekends etc.) at great personal sacrifice around the holidays, and now he’s sending me emails marked high importance asking me to be sure to input my PTO for the day after Christmas into our system. I have not done so because I’m not even sure I’ll be able to take the day off, but he feels the need to track and send reminders.
I’m getting to the point where I want to leave the role and find a new job (there are other cultural fit issues at play as well), but I suspect this boss may retire in the next 1-2 years and I’m wondering if I can bear it long enough to see how things are with a new manager.
The two options are to leave or death by a thousand paper cuts. These people don’t improve
+1
If you like the role besides this, I would try to just let this go and not take it personally. It sounds like each of his reminders is feeling like “I don’t trust you to do basic things,” but is seems like it’s far more likely he just has a compulsive need to control, applied to literally everyone. It doesn’t sound like he’s impeding your work or affecting you materially, so it may be easiest to just change the message you’re hearing each time he does this.
If it’s a bad fit in general, or if he’s trying to control you’re actual work or judging your performance unfairly, definitely try to leave.
OP here. I think it is an impulsive need to control applied to literally everyone (he does the same to others who report to him), so I agree I should try to not take it personally, but it is really irritating!
I may be wrong, but I’m sensing that this person hasn’t been your boss for very long? If that’s the case, you may be able to gently push back on some of the micromanagement. Like with the PTO request email, maybe respond saying “I may not be able to take the day off. Would you prefer I enter it now and possibly rescind it, or is it better to wait?” And for the reminder to save the document, either a chipper “will do” or “filed” may work. After a few examples, you can bring them to your 1:1s and talk to him about communication and expectations to see if he has concerns that you won’t handle things and if so, where those concerns are coming from.
A year or two can be very short or verrrrrrrrry long.
OP here. I like this approach to the PTO reminder and will do that.
For the reminders to save the documents, I respond as you suggested (Will do or sure) but then he continues to send these reminders each time there is a new document. Bringing it up in my 1:1 is a good idea.
I had success with a similar boss and the document saving issue by raising it as “are they not showing up on your end in the saved folder? Can you share a screen shot of what you see so I can troubleshoot?”
Every single time. She became so focused on micromanaging non-existent tech issues that I trained her to go check the folder each time in hopes of catching a problem that she inherently saw the file was saved and stopped the reminders.
What if anything happens if you just ignore and delete these emails? For my micromanagey supervisor, it’s an eyeroll and delete.
This sounds right. The problem doesn’t seem bad enough to warrant too much thought.
Does this reframing resonate at all?
Boss loves my work. I am so thorough that the only thing boss can do to help is give me administrative reminders. Boss knows I make personal sacrifices for work, and boss wants me to take the day after Christmas off.
Alternatively, if boss is close to retirement, are they maybe phoning it in, and parroting whatever reminders the org sends to its managers?
Yeah, as Anon above and Cat below note, these examples are both very admin-focused. Is that his focus? If it’s not substantive micromanaging, I think it’s worth talking to Boss and asking him about the admin reminders. I’d ask whether he can find a way to trust your admin processes, just like he trusts your substantive judgment and experience, or if he has reason to worry you would drop the admin ball.
OP here. A lot of the micromanaging is administratively focused, but it does also veer into substantive. He does not have the same substantive expertise as I do, but wants to be included in all meetings and copied on all emails relating to my area. He doesn’t necessarily impede nor try to control on the substantive areas, but wants to know everything that is going on at all times.
This would drive me nuts – it’s like a whole other job just keeping him updated on the busy job you are already doing! If bringing it up to him in a 1:1 doesn’t turn a lightbulb on for him, I’d suggest you might start looking elsewhere. You can’t count on his retirement until he’s actually gone and two years is too long to put up with this.
is the micromanaging targeted at tech and processes like this, or your real work? if the former – given proximity to retirement – he may be feeling extra “oh I need to show I understand how to use all the systems” and it’s coming out that way.
I like the above poster’s suggestion of replying to the PTO email asking which is better. Put the micro back on him!
I would look for something new. Even if you were certain about the timeline, 1-2 years is a loooong time to work for somebody like that.
Depending on how long you’ve worked for this person, malicious compliance might actually be an excellent tactic.
I got a new manager who wanted to review everything, sent nitpicky reminders, etc. So, I started tagging them and CC’ing them on literally EVERYTHING. I stopped approving anything until they weighed in, I stopped shipping work until they gave a final stamp of approval, etc.
I added them to every meeting and CC’d them on every email. After about 2 weeks of this, they pulled back and realized that they didn’t actually want or need to see and approve every little thing. I think it started as just trying to get up-to-speed on my work, but the way it was framed, frequency of requests, etc. came across as super micro-manage-y.
In my case, the malicious compliance was the right strategy. They realized they weren’t actually giving substantive (or in many cases, ANY) feedback, and they realized that they couldn’t do my full-time role and their own full-time role, so they backed off.
This is a bit of a gambit, but in my case, it paid off very quickly and I ended up having a fine working relationship with that manager without them being all up in my business unnecessarily.
I would have thought we had the same boss, except for the pronouns OP used. I truly believe that my boss has OCD, and I am not throwing that around lightly. I am senior enough, with enough specialized expertise and client support that I mostly ignore it, with a thought that it must be very difficult for boss to go through life stressing about all the details. It made me crazy for the first year or two. After that I kind of developed the ability to tune it out, but I realize that I am fortunate to be in a position to ignore it.
This was a solid year for me!
– I made partner at my firm
– argued and won at the appellate court for the first time
– Ran my first 5k
– Paid off my car and student loans
– officially graduated from the diaper / car seat / nighttime wake up phase of parenting
The pandemic years were horrible for me personally and professionally, so I am savoring this.
This is all amazing! Congrats and hope you get to celebrate and rest!!
How do you host friends who have small children? Senior Attorney’s holiday party made me wonder. We don’t have kids and our home is not childproofed, but most of our friends have kids now. Last time friends’ kids came over, they nearly ruined a piece of furniture. We love to have people in our home, but … is there a better plan than waiting 10 years until all the kids grow up?
I just tell my friends my home is not child-friendly, even though I am, and don’t include kids in the invitation. I am sure someone has skipped an invitation because of it, but I am happy to go to their house for a family-centered event.
I think doing so for a night event is totally fine, but it’s kinda rude to do for an afternoon open house or something during the day
I don’t. I do this too. Party is adults only, get a sitter or don’t come.
Yeah, we’ve tried to host kids and it just doesn’t work out with our space. Everyone was stressed and it wasn’t worth it. We host a couple adult only events each year but attending more family friendly events at others’ homes and third spaces happens more often in this season of life.
I have kids but I don’t think it’s rude to not invite kids to an afternoon event.
We have one childpoofed room with a tv and the kids hang out there. It’s probably rude but I want to live with fancy furniture and nice things
I was the commenter on that thread, raising the issue about unruly toddlers who actually wreak havoc on my house and their parents think thats “kids being kids” and I think they are not being mal-intentioned, i have seen other parties at their houses and indeed the kids throw stuff around and go all crazy but 98% of the people i know currently seem to have kids under 5 so this is a real problem in my life. And I love hosting and hosted some of the same folks pre-kids very happily!
Where is this thread? Can’t find it
Ctrl+F for “open house on New Year’s Day” on the weekend thread
Thank you!
I say this as a parent – it really depends on the parent. When my kids were little we were routinely invited to parties where all the kids went upstairs and watched a movie together. We did the same for the most part when we had other people’s kids over. It usually went fine.
But there were certain kids who were harder for us to have over, and it mostly came back to their parenting.
One kid wouldn’t hang out with the other kids and wanted to hang out with the adults, but not her parents, which meant a different adult (me, who was trying to host a party at the same time) had to babysit her.
Another kid, a friend of my son’s, got himself back behind the couch, which was against a wall, and tripped over an electrical cord to a table lamp, which then fell off the end table and broke. I said “Ted, get out from behind the couch, you know better than that” and then his mom was super upset and insisted I owed him an apology.
Both of these kids were late elementary school age and I don’t blame them, but I do blame their parents. My solution was not to invite them over again.
My son remained friends with the one kid for a few more years, and he came over by himself, but his whole family didn’t come over anymore.
It depends a lot on the number of kids, their ages, and the layout of your house.
I have kids now, but was one of the last friends to have kids so I have a few ideas.
– First of all, there’s absolutely nothing wrong with adult only parties. We do a lot with our friends that is family friendly, but we also do adults only dinner parties about once a month. I have always been pro-baby sitter, and luckily my friends are too.
– Do you have a spare room (guest room, office without much in it, finished but unfurnished basement?) where you could set up for the kids? Show a movie on TV, bring out pillows and blankets and let them build a fort? Ask a few friends to bring over some toys?
– If the kids are too young for that, could you cordon off a portion of your living or dining room (ask a friend to bring a baby gate) and set that up for the kids with some borrowed toys? Parents can keep an eye on them, kids don’t have access to anything breakable or messy in the kid zone?
– Absent friends bringing toys, a few balloons are very popular with kids of all ages. Younger kids will just like the balloons, older kids can play keep it up or knee soccer.
– If the weather is amenable and you have a yard, let the kids run wild out there. You may have yard toys the kids could play with already, but if not, ask a friend to bring some. Bubbles, chalk, a ball or two are easy to keep on hand and kids love them.
– I can’t emphasize the role of a good kid movie in a setting like this. If someone is so strictly anti-screen time that they don’t allow that then they can entertain and monitor their kid or not come.
– I’m sure most of the “childproofing” needs can be done for the party – move precious stuff out of reach of a kid. Lay down a blanket on your light colored couch, put the antique chair in the garage for the day. Explain to friends you’d like their kids to only eat while seated at the table or on the blanket on the floor you’ve set up for the super fun indoor picnic.
If you plan on hosting a lot, I’d check out buy nothing or yard sales for some kid toys too. That way your friends aren’t always bringing stuff over.
This is what yards (or roof decks, etc., if you’re in the city) are for. I have kids, so I host in the winter. And my kidless friends host us in the summer.
Why can’t you throw a cocktail party or a dinner party and gently make it clear it’s adults only? Sa’s party sounded fabulous but imho a holiday open house with all your friend and their kids is not the easiest party to throw, especially if you don’t host a lot. Have a few couples over for cocktails and board games and see how that works. Alternatively, I went to an open house last week where the first person who I recognized after the hosts was our babysitter who had been hired with another woman to watch all the kids ! That was fabulous and I actually got to socialize.
+1 I am a mom and I am more than willing to hire a babysitter to go to adults only functions.
I have a surburban yard so I host in the summer and have water play so the kids are occupied outside. Water balloons, sprinkler, slip n slide, etc. The kids are tired and happy.
Doesn’t this make a wet mess with people coming in and out of the house for the bathroom/parents/etc and also changing in and out of wet clothes?
Just invite the parents. As someone who has small kids, I don’t really want to bring them. :) A backyard bbq, fine. Anything above that level is just not fun.
Thanks all. We’d happily have adults-only parties, but haven’t tried yet because all I hear from parents are complaints about how arduous it is to find and pay for babysitters. Maybe we’ll just try throwing a party nice enough for them to realize it’s worth that hassle to be just grown-ups again.
I’m someone who is both annoyed by parents who never do things without their kids / refuse to get babysitters and people who act like ever including kids is an imposition – everything in moderation :)
Kid free stuff is really fun and nice. Doing family friendly things where all the kids can play is also really fun.
As a parent, I don’t mind getting a babysitter and going to a friend’s house for a fancy party! But for a weekend, I need a lot of notice. And even with a lot of notice, I’m not likely to find a babysitter for major holidays or during large local or national events (jazz fest, Super Bowl, etc.). And that’s with 6 local grandparents and 2 reliable babysitters! Oh, and during cold/flu season, we have a 20-40% chance of canceling, either because our kid is sick and nobody will babysit him, or because one of the local grandparents is sick and not up for babysitting. It really is so hard sometimes!
Finding excellent babysitters is really hard for a lot of parents in my area. However, I have a partner who will stay with our kids while I go out (and vice versa). It’s probably the most reliable way for us to go see friends without our kids.
My kids would rather stay home with one parent than go to a party for grown ups.
I would love to be invited to a friend’s adults-only party.
Is it really that hard? Basically all the ECEs I know babysit on the side but they aren’t cheap.
Our daycare center prohibited teachers from babysitting for families at the center. We have local grandparents so have never tried to hard to find paid babysitters but it definitely seems hard to find quality, reliable people.
Yes, it really is that hard.
And more so if you don’t have a regular babysitting arrangement, money is tight, you don’t have family nearby, it’s holiday season, and the invitation came on short notice.
Yeah I mean.. for a few hours I need a responsible but not excellent babysitter. Keep my kids safe, call me with any issues but you really don’t need to have an early childhood education degree to watch my kids for an evening.
Yeah what happened to local teens?
The local teens might have time once in a blue moon, but typically are busy with extracurricular activities, studying, and hanging out with friends. Their parents give them pocket money.
That’s not my experience in a high end area where my favorite babysitter is a multi sport varsity athlete- They don’t practice on Saturday night and she doesn’t party- but I guess maybe it’s different in other places? fwiw my local library offers a babysitter training class with cpr training and the local moms facebook group has a list of all the local kids who’ve passed and want work. I’ve had really great experiences but my kids are easy and my standards,
beyond safety,
are really low.
Just got off the phone with my mom discussing logistics for family Christmas and ended up sobbing after we hung up. I know I cannot control what my extended family does, and try as I might I cannot control my emotions, but I’ve never made it through the holidays as an adult without crying about the lack of big family gathering. I know it really upsets my parents too, so I try to not be upset by the time I get to their house but since my grandparents died there is nothing with 90% of my family.
Cousins won’t do extended family things (they think its too hectic even though they don’t host), so my aunts/uncles go to be whichever of their children has invited them to be with the grandkids, so they’re usually not around (occasionally one of my 5 sets of aunts/uncles won’t get the invite by any of their kids and they join us, but that’s not the case this year).
I have one cousin who I adore who is also unmarried and child free. He lives ~ 4 hours away, but we grew up in the same neighborhood so he and my sister and I were always together growing up. His mom’s side of the family (so not the side I’m related to) does BIG holidays, so now without grandparents on our side, he and his mom and dad only ever spend holidays with her side of the family. I’m close with my cousin and his parents and it def hurts that despite this they still spend all holidays with her side.
We usually get invited to a family friend’s or a 2nd cousin’s for a family party, but those both fell through this year (COVID at the family friend’s, 2nd cousin is 38 weeks pregnant).
My mom has jokingly started referring to our holidays as the reject holiday, and she’s not wrong. I just don’t get how people could do this to family.
Some family units are selfish. There’s a big priority on the nuclear family (at the expense of the broader family) in this country that I’m not sure is doing us any favors.
It sounds like your family has tried to reach out and to also take on the burden of planning or hosting. Short of inviting yourself places, you’ve done what you can. I’m sorry this is so painful.
+1 that the priorities have shifted, I think for the worse. Nuclear family > extended family, no time for Christmas cards because people instead spend their time and energy on other “instagram Christmas” plans, less Christmas parties (family or friend) because they’re a lot of work. Newsflash – all of the benefits of living in a community take work. People did the work for generations upon generations because it was worth it to reap the benefits of living in an interconnected community. Now its individualism (or nuclear family) above all else, so hosting loved ones is “too much work” which leads to not seeing loved ones which leads to weaker ties.
I get everyone has limited bandwidth, but it’s so worth investing in. I have STRONG feelings about the trend of Christmas cards, ha.
YES to the Christmas cards! I feel so strongly about sending them out. It’s such a nice way to send well wishes and holiday cheer to loved ones, especially those who are further away that I won’t see during the holiday season.
I’m mid 30s, single, no kids or pets so I just get cute non-photo cards from Amazon. I sent about 45 this year, I think it took less than 1 hour to address all of the cards and probably less than $50 for cards + stamps. If you send cards from Shutterfly or something its even easier – load in the info, choose the card, and they send out automatically (no hand addressing cards and addresses!).
I think there’s a lot of optional holiday stuff, but to me this is absolutely a must do.
I’m a really good friend and do a really good job of building and investing in my “village”. I’m so close to just cutting out the people who don’t reciprocate. If you’re not going to be there for me, then I can invest into relationships that are going to be there for me – so too bad if you’re family. If you’re not there for me, i’m not oging to be there for you
I’m recently engaged and I’m really rethinking on inviting my extended family on my dad’s side to my wedding – we grew up close but I hardly see or hear from my cousins now. Meanwhile, my 2nd cousin once removed on my mom’s side will be flying cross country to attend my bridal shower. We’re 10 years apart in age, grew up a 5 hour drive away, and are distantly related but she’s always made the effort and as a result we’re close. My 4 cousins who are between 3 and 9 years older who grew up 1 mile away who I used to see approx monthly growing up and now see every 2-3 years? Maybe not getting the invite…
I have about 90 friends (counting friends’ partners) on the “A” list for my wedding (just my friends, not my fiancé’s friend list). I’d rather make room for those people than my cousins
How do you build and invest in your village? How do I start doing this?
By showing up. By checking in. By initiating hang outs. Just being a good friend.
A friend needs help moving? I’m there. A friend got a promotion? Let’s grab drinks, my treat. I send birthday and Christmas cards. A friend has a stressful situation at work? Ask if they want to talk about it. Ask again in a week or two. A friend’s mom is in the hospital? Send your friend a Starbucks or door dash gift card ir flowers.
Invite them over for dinner on a Tuesday evening if your apartment is messy and dinner is just rotisserie chicken and bagged salad.
Friend has a kid? Offer to be a backup pickup person for preschool. Friend has a dog? Offer to dogsit.
Put the effort in and most people reciprocate it. The ones that don’t, cut your losses and move on.
Yeah. I had eight families over for new years last year. This year literally none of them reached out to see what we are doing. Look I get that hosting is expensive and exhausting, which is why I’m not up for it and it’s fine not to be invited to anything but I think this is why people opt out. If it’s never reciprocated it makes the burden heavier.
Gee I wonder why there’s a loneliness epidemic
Isn’t it just as selfish to expect everybody will continue celebrating the exact same ways they did as children even when they grow up, get married to other people who have their own family traditions and have their own children who have cousins and grandparents?
OP talks about getting invites from others but makes no mention of making any effort to host the gathering she wants. Be the change, OP.
I noticed that too. I’m wondering if she’s not local? i think it’s hard for people who move away and feel unmoored when things change.
I’m local but live in a studio apartment downtown (family is in the burbs and won’t come downtown bc parking is hard) but my parents always host Thanksgiving and Christmas Day (and now Christmas Eve) and always make it an open invite to all of our family and close friends.
I of course help my parents with hosting.
You nee to find a new date. We have one extended family event on the 26th and another on the 27th every year. One we host and one we attend. These events involve cousin level relations .
My parents host Christmas Day and DH’s mom hosts Christmas Eve. Both events are just their kids and grandkids. Cousins level events are for the holiday season but not the 24th/25th.
I feel this – I spent all of yesterday visiting my great aunt and very ill great uncle. I’ll host them for Christmas and I hosted them for Thanksgiving. I’m close with them and they’re great and I really enjoy spending time with them. But where TF are my cousins in this? Great aunt and uncle don’t have kids, but they have many nieces and nephews and great nieces and nephews, but why am I the only one making sure they have holiday plans?
It sounds like many of your relatives your generation have kids and you don’t yet. I’m in this situation – the only two cousins without kids yet are my brother and I. Not surprising, because my dad was an “oops” baby so his 4 siblings were teenagers when he was born and as a result, my brother and I are the youngest cousins (10 cousins between 5 and 16 years older than me) and also my parents are the only non-grandparents among my dad’s siblings. Now that there’s a “next” generation, my immediate family and I are an afterthought at best among the rest of the family.
I’m in a similar situation. It’s one thing if Cousin Susie doesn’t invite you, but when you arent included in Uncle John or Cousin Susie or Great Aunt Mary or 2nd Cousin Tom or family friend A and family friend B and so on’s plans it just stinks. Hard to not feel like a reject!!!
All of this “choose kindness” and yet I don’t see that being extended within the family.
I remember the first holiday after my last grandparent died and we basically saw no extended family because everyone had different plans. I got in a huge fight with my mom about it, saying that this meant we’d never have a famliy holiday again. She thought I was being dramatic, but a decade later here we are and I haven’t seen a single cousin or 2 of my sets of aunts and uncles at a holiday since…
I told my mom and step dad (who I love and am close with and see regularly) that unless things change, I think I’m opting out of Christmas next year. Some of my extended family has been downright rude in their exclusion of us, and if I can’t spend it with everyone in a way that’s enjoyable to me next year, then maybe I’ll spend it on my own in a way that’s enjoyable to me.
I’m an only child, and don’t think I could leave them alone though. I don’t know. But, why am I letting my extended family make me miserable?
I think you are expecting to much from your extended family. I used to see my cousins at my grandparents for Christmas, but that’s when we were the youngest generation. My parents didn’t see their cousins at those events, just their siblings. Now my kids see their cousins at their grandparents for Christmas, and I’m the middle generation seeing my siblings only. IME, this is how it’s often worked. Your branch of the family just hasn’t added the next generation yet.
Okay, so if a branch of the family hasn’t added the next generation yet why can’t one of the other branches “adopt” them until then? That would be the kind and generous thing to do. I can see not wanting to add 10+ additional people (2 parents, 2 kids, 2 in laws, then grandkids) but until then what’s the harm in adding a handful of adults (who should be easy guests + can bring a dish)?
Different anon, but I’m assuming this isn’t an intentional slight and people don’t realize adults need to be “adopted” into their new traditions.
But if you know your sister is just spending holidays with her husband + adult child(ren) and you otherwise get along, why WOULDN’T you invite them to join?!?
Right – it’s the adult and family version of “you can’t sit with us” on the playground…
When I already have 15+ people in my house, adding four more adults is a lot. I don’t have a huge house and don’t really have space for that
I love in a less than 2000 sq ft twin and we squeeze in ~20 people. It’s doable if you care
Just because it’s doable for you doesn’t mean it’s doable for others. 1 of my 3 kids gets super overwhelmed having both sets of grandparents and my sister with her kid in the house at the same time. That’s like 12 people. Adding 4 adults he barely knows would make it an awful experience for him. And you have no idea what other people are managing. Lots of people have complicated medical or custody situations that they are not going to share details about to extended family.
Demanding that extended family expand their gatherings from 15 to 20 as an easy and reasonable ask is exactly why you are not being invited. That’s a huge ask.
IME, my cousins and my BIL/SIL and their kids don’t even do kids’ cousins at holidays. Holidays are only the nuclear family or nuclear family + grandparents.
Basically, the cousins all moved away but to separate places. No one wants to travel with kids at holidays, so grandparents have to choose/rotate where they spend holidays. On years grandparents aren’t there, holidays are just the parents + small kids.
This also means, DH and I spend all holidays with my family because his parents are always traveling to BIL and SIL and grandkid. We are not invited to join. I feel for DH, he would like to see his family on holidays too! And I feel for my ILs – my MIL has expressed guilt at this set up and feels bad we never see them for holidays.
It’s not fully clear from your comment what your extended family’s reasoning is for not doing big gatherings, or what specifically you’d prefer. So it’s hard to address your question of why people would do that to family. I hear the hurt in your voice and want to encourage you to try not to take it personally, because it’s just going to eat you alive. I’ve also had a similar experience, right down to my mom calling our family’s holidays “reject holidays” and feeling guilty and sad that there isn’t some sparkly magic holiday festivity for us to attend. If extended family doesn’t want to gather, they won’t. You’ll drive yourself crazy trying to get blood from that stone. What worked for my family was reframing. Don’t view your holiday as lesser because the gathering is smaller or doesn’t look like a stereotypical hallmark movie family gathering. Make you own holiday traditions with your mom/parents. And I don’t just mean “drink hot coco!” Think big. You don’t have to sit at home wishing you weren’t alone. Do something totally different! Do something that you both enjoy. Make it special. Travel to a fun place. Make a reservation at a great restaurant. Stack the day with fun, Christmasy-activities. Get a spa treatment. You’ll never get out of this rut by hoping your extended family will start making the effort that for whatever reason they don’t want to make. You have to take the reins and make it happen.
Great advice.
I tried to suggest going away for holidays, but my dad has an “old maid” aunt who we always see on holidays. We’re pretty much the only ones who go out of our way to include her in holidays, but she’s old enough that she doesn’t want to travel so we wouldn’t leave her for Christmas.
Even if your cousins/extended family invited you somewhere, would you/your parents actually go, and leave your “old maid” aunt? (I’m going to breeze pass your use of this v. questionable term.) Or is everyone local to each other, and you could do both? In any event, I mean this kindly, the advice still stands. Maybe you don’t travel on Christmas day. Maybe you don’t travel at all, but you try to add some other fun stuff. Maybe you take heart in knowing you’re making your “old maid” aunt’s Christmas very special.
Every choice has a trade off, and everyone’s got to make choices. There’s no magic solution that your family is overlooking because they don’t care about you. Take comfort in that and go do something fun when you’re not seeing your dad’s aunt.
Yeah we’re all local enough. It’d pretty rude that they don’t invite her anyways
Has anyone asked the other relatives to include you guys and your aunt? While you shouldn’t have to, sometimes people just need a push. I’d call whoever I was closest to.
Yes we have. We still don’t get invited.
I’m someone who shows my love via hosting, it’s always the more the merrier, and I’d rather have a house full of love than almost anything else. To me, hosting is pretty easy (my standards are low) and I’d rather do pizza delivery for 20 than a nice homemade meal for 6. I grew up with a family and with family friends who share this view.
Not everyone sees the world the way I do, but I admit its hard for me to understand. If you have the option to be inclusive, why wouldn’t you be? I think it’s actually a really unkind thing to prioritize most things over including more people (a nicer meal or a perfectly clean and hosting-ready house, for example)
I have a small house and don’t have room for that many people to sit down. Some people might only want or be able to host a smaller number of people. I think that is okay and not abandonment of family because you can only host 8 instead of 20.
But my direct line family is already 20 people – parents/me and my 4 siblings plus partners/and then all the kids. It’s hard enough getting everyone to fit already, I can’t add four more adults.
Maybe the issue is that OPs family is small, but the only family branches aren’t. I honestly don’t know any adults who are 30+ who see their cousins during the holidays. Once you and your siblings get married and start having kids, that adds up to a lot of people on their own. Most houses are just not big enough for you to invite all your aunts, uncles, and cousins
This sounds like my family and our grandparents were just having family holidays through emotional blackmail. Once there was no emotional blackmail holidays continued but they were different, we’ve adopted my one cousin and her partner to our holiday since they’re nice and don’t have unhinged political views, but anyone who I just put up with because I was forced to I no longer see.
I have been sick for four days so admittedly browsing way too much redd1t. Those big holiday family gatherings aren’t necessarily Hallmark moments. A lot of people are absolutely miserable with their extended families. There are usually reasons people decide to do something else. You don’t necessarily know where they’re coming from so just to paint it with a broad brush of “they’re selfish” is most likely inaccurate.
Agree with others to create your own traditions. Start this year!
Ooh, which subreddits are good for this? I like reading about other people’s holiday situations.
Relationship advice, am I the asshole or AITA
And there’s no reason why OP couldn’t try to plan an extended family reunion – a picnic or cookout – during the other months of the year when it’s not so hectic and the weather is warmer. I had to turn down a cousin’s invite to travel up to NJ, a 3 hour drive for me, because I already have so many other social things going on in December. If my cousin had invited me for a cookout in the summer or fall I would definitely go.
OP here. I have tried several times. There is no interest.
It’s funny because on my other side of the family I have 3 second cousins who live on the opposite coast. We alternate traveling to each other and don’t do it at the holidays, but we see each other every year. 4 cousins with a 25 year age spread. We make it work because we care.
This! We avoid large family gatherings in the winter because my dad has a vulnerable lung condition. Summer is a much better time for larger gatherings as they can be outdoor.
My family is truly horrible — as evidenced by my emancipation at the age of 16. Some people have valid reasons to avoid family and family gatherings.
We are in this boat. We hosted a massive family gathering for years, but this year were told everyone had other plans and then no one invited us to join them. So we put together two really fun events with friends and the closest local family members. Next year we will do a better job of planning now that we know what to expect.
I think this happens naturally as families age. Like as a kid, I saw my aunts, uncles, and cousins at a grandparent’s house – occasionally a grandparent’s sibling or second cousin would join, but not usually.
But over time, your aunts and uncles become the grandparents – so they are the focus of their gatherings with their kids (your cousins) and their kids.
The big family gatherings tend to be weddings and funerals more so than holidays.
I don’t think you’re going to change this, so deep breaths and think about what you want your branch’s traditions to look like!
That’s right. It’s how a family tree works. It’s also worth asking what kind of a relationship you have with extended family outside of the holidays. I felt a bit blue not seeing a set of cousins this year and while I’m not in a place to host everyone I did ask if we could get together for dinner and now the date is set. So that’s nice. It takes the pressure off of holidays when you have other opportunities to get together.
So none of my cousins live locally and they never come back to town to visit their parents so there’s no situation in which we’re all nearby (everyone is on different cities). As I can, I try to see them for one offs but people are busy.
I text them happy birthday and send congrats for babies or promotions or whatever. I get nothing in return. It hurts.
I grew up idolizing these people.
Wait but if none of them are local than it makes sense they’re not coming to your parents for the holidays. Are your aunts and uncles just traveling with to their kids? that would make sense why no one is around for the holidays. It’s more a case of everyone moving away than “how could you do this to family?” But I’m probably missing something. Fwiw I’d be crushed if my cousins moved away.
I was having thoughts about this but that last sentence . . . You can’t idolize people. People are flawed. You have to accept them as they are and they are people who are not going to invite you to these gatherings. Full stop. You can be sad and you need to grieve this, but families grow and bend and shift and people have to adapt.
I have a grand total of three family members outside of my immediate family and none of us see each other hardly ever. It’s not personal. I don’t feel rejected. This is who they (and we) are. I appreciate what I do get (cards, the occasional text, absolutely nothing from my mom’s brother – is he alive, who knows!), and I move on and enjoy my time with my “new” family – the one I have created.
Again, be sad, grieve what you have lost, but framing it as them doing this at you is not going to help you at all.
This seems very white people. We get together with my extended family every Christmas, including all the aunts, uncles, cousins, grandparents, any living extended family. We have about 50-60 people and just make it work. You don’t need a sit down table, you just need some food and booze. We have no concept of “family aging” – it’s been this way for multiple generations.
This. This is how my family was for decades. The abrupt change is heartbreaking.
I know my mom had cousins but I don’t know any of their names. I only know my dad had cousins from working on the family tree well after he passed away.
I know the names of my cousins on my mom’s side but could not count all the cousins on my dad’s side. It’s a lot. I haven’t met most of them. Everyone lives scattered across the country from each other and we’ve only seen each other occasionally through our lives. I’m facebook friends with a few of my cousins and that’s it. I would never, ever think it wasn’t Christmas without a cousin gathering!
OP, when you were growing up were your parents’ cousins ever at your holiday gatherings? Or was it just grandparents, their kids, and grandkids?
Yes. Every year. 40ish people. Great aunts and uncles, parents cousins and their kids. Family friends. Everyone was akways there.
Were they never with their spouses’ families? That seems really unusual that they all spent Christmas Day at their great aunt and uncle’s house and no one has spouses’ families who hosted.
So in many families, and I know this is shocking to people here, you also include spouses families too! It’s amazing, you actually get to know your relatives!
lol—stop it. This is not at all unusual. Only recently have families become so insular and full of excuses.
Yeah of course in laws are invited. They’re family too.
This doesn’t make sense though based on the numbers OP is providing. Like my parents are both one of three so that’s about twenty people just with those grandparents and kids and kids spouses and grandkids, if you included in law parents and siblings that’s another 10-20 for each of the 3 spouses so like 30-60 people and then you don’t have the grandparents siblings or kids who OP says where invited which means another 30-60 people. And they all go to the grandparents house? That’s a LOT of turkey.
I’ve never heard of 100+ people Christmas dinners as a regular thing. Those kind of events where always an open house between Christmas Day and New Year’s but not the sit down dinner on Christmas Day.
So you want somebody else to do all the work to host 40 people and make Christmas magic for you while you get to just show up?
If I invite one person or a nuclear family (family or friend) to a holiday, how many of their extended family members/in-laws do I also need to include? Do I need to invite my in-laws extended family? There isn’t room in a smaller house or apartment for a 40+ person gathering.
Don’t you know – many of us have holidays like this now. Times have changed. You need stop romanticizing the past, and realize that you are the grown up now that has to choose how to live your life.
I mean, both of my parents are dead, so I’m so jealous of your holidays! But we do what we have to do. No whining here. Make your own new traditions and they can include separating from your single Aunt (I’m an “old maid” too). She will survive a change up too, although your kindness to make holidays special sure will be appreciated.
kind of related to the topic of hosting and families with kids: I love to host casual gatherings, where we eat, chat and mingle. I don’t have kids but my invites always say friends and family welcome. People bring their partners, and sometimes even another friend or sibling who might be visiting. But people with kids just don’t join. This could be people with babies, toddlers or bigger kids. I wonder if they assume I don’t actually want kids to attend, or their socializing is completely saturated with presumably kid’s friends and family, or some other reason?
Its not you. It’s probably that they can’t relax with the kids. Particularly toddlers and babies, it’s just such a production to take them anywhere. Older kids actually act rude sometimes when they’re bored. They don’t know if you’re cool or you’re secretly fuming about almost broken furniture and judging their parenting. Unless you have kids my kids’ age I try to leave them with my parents because the chances of me actually connecting with you while they’re there is small.
I hate this. How do you build community if people don’t show up?
it’s a useful perspective. Maybe there are other ways to build community. It’s worth thinking about.