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Our daily TPS reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices.
Sales of note for 10.10.24
- Nordstrom – Extra 25% off clearance (through 10/14); there's a lot from reader favorites like Boss, FARM Rio, Marc Fisher LTD, AGL, and more. Plus: free 2-day shipping, and cardmembers earn 6x points per dollar (3X the points on beauty).
- Ann Taylor – Extra 50% off sale (ends 10/12)
- Banana Republic Factory – Up to 50% off everything plus extra 25% off your $125+ purchase
- Boden – 10% off new styles with code; free shipping over $75
- Eloquii – Extra 50% off a lot of sale items, with code
- J.Crew – 40% off sitewide
- J.Crew Factory – 50% off entire site, plus extra 25% off orders $150+
- Lo & Sons – Fall Sale, up to 35% off
- M.M.LaFleur – Save 25% sitewide
- Neiman Marcus – Sale on sale, up to 85% off
- Spanx – Lots of workwear on sale, some up to 70% off
- Talbots – 50% off 2+ markdowns
- Target – Circle week, deals on 1000s of items
- White House Black Market – Buy one, get one – 50% off full price styles
And some of our latest threadjacks here at Corporette (reader questions and commentary) — see more here!
Some of our latest threadjacks include:
- What to say to friends and family who threaten to not vote?
- What boots do you expect to wear this fall and winter?
- What beauty treatments do you do on a regular basis to look polished?
- Can I skip the annual family event my workplace holds, even if I'm a manager?
- What small steps can I take today to get myself a little more “together” and not feel so frazzled all of the time?
- The oldest daughter is America's social safety net — change my mind…
- What have you lost your taste for as you've aged?
- Tell me about your favorite adventure travels…
Anonymous
I would like it a lot better without that weird seam across the top of the chest. I love the ruffle though.
BK
I agree. It is not good to have to call attention to that.
Ru
Fiona – regarding the henna for your friend’s wedding, there are glitter mehndi cones available. They’re fun because they’re glitter (yay) but you can wash/peel them off as soon as the night is over. No dying/staining of the skin.
Fiona
Oh nice! Thanks for the tip, Ru!
Ru
No prob. If you have the time, I’d suggest cruising the Indian stores in your city and see if they have the glitter cones available. Some stores even have decals that you can just stick on your skin, like temporary tattoos.
anonymous
Agreed with Anonymous about the seam across the bust.
Sorry for the threadjack so early, but: NuvaRing. Based in part on conversations here, I just got one and would appreciate advice. I was shocked at the copay: $40 instead of my usual $10 pills. Wow. I belatedly realized that the manufacturer’s website has a $15 coupon good for the first 6 rings, but still. My question is a bit more basic and base, and I’m sorry if this is the wrong forum. For those of you with NuvaRing, do you or your partner notice it during intimacy? And does the ring come out when intimate? My partner is pretty dubious about it in general, and mad that I didn’t talk to my doctor about either of these seemingly likely possibilities. I probably should have talked to my doctor, but well, I didn’t.
In other news, I would really like the pharmaceutical industry to make a pill for men, so they can deal with all the side effects instead of me.
former ring user
I hated the Nuva ring. It killed my sex drive almost completely, and actually made sex painful on occasion. One time it actually shredded a condom with my husband (then boyfriend). Seriously, night and day difference from when I stopped using it–all of the sudden I liked sex again! I know others have had a different experience, and it works well for some people, but I am not those people.
former ring user
I never had it come out though.
happy former ring user
I used NuvaRing for about 5 years before my husband and I started trying. About 1 out of 10 times, husband said he could feel it (but swore that it didn’t distract him), but it never bothered me. I know some people will take it out if they know they are going to be intimate and my OB had said as long as you put it back in within a few hours, the effectiveness didn’t decrease.
I loved having it because I had a hard time remembering to take a pill every morning at the same time. Although my little sister had it while in college and was on the phone with me while she was walking to class once and it just…fell out. On to the sidewalk (she was wearing workout shorts at the time). So I guess there’s a chance of that happening?
anon for this
I used it for two years and it gave me frequent migraines with aura. They got so bad that I went to the doctor who listened to my symptoms and said, You’re not on the Ring, are you? and when I told her I was demanded I take it out immediately. Apparently extended aura is a side effect of the ring. So if you have any history with migraine (prior to the ring I got one about once every six months, it gradually increased to once a week, since removing it a month ago I have had zero) I would steer clear.
As for noticing it during intimacy, I didn’t really (and neither did my husband, I think). It came out once in about 2 years (it was actually comical – you can imagine where it ended up). And now that I’m no longer on it I miss it! I liked not having to worry about taking a pill every day.
MaggieLizer
Ditto needing a pill for men… why is it taking so long? I talked to my doctor about NuvaRing when it first came out and decided against it. The doctor said it wouldn’t come out (which is a lie – a friend who used it said it did once) but if it did, it’s fine as long as you put it back within 24 hours. Are you concerned about being protected or the ick factor?
Noner
I doubt there will ever be a pill of men – its just different biology so the idea doesn’t really translate. Kind of like Viagra not working on women the way it work on men.
Noner
For, not of, men. Sheesh.
Anonnc
My understanding is that researchers have developed fairly effective pills for men (causing a reversible halt on sperm production without having a “feminizing” effect on secondary sex characteristics), but there’s a perception that men won’t take the pill so there’s not sufficient funding to run full scale trials.
Lana Lang
Sure, a pill for men would be great, but would we really trust them to remember to take it every day when there are no direct physical repercussions involved?
Lyssa
I’ve thought the same thing- I tend towards paranoia (check the locks 14 times, drive back to make sure that I unplugged the curling iron), and, even though my husband’s certainly super-responsible, I would constantly be asking/reminding him, to the point that we would both go crazy! I do forget/put off every now and then, but at least I know that if I did it wrong, it was my fault (which is probably unfair to my husband, since it’s not like he wouldn’t have any repercussions himself, but hey).
Seriously, I’d hate to think of women in less committed relationships with less responsible guys getting taken in by promises that they had been taking it when they hadn’t (or hadn’t well enough).
Lucky07
I’m on the minipill (a.k.a. the POP), and it has been great. Some spotting at first, but not anymore. It does have a high failure rate, because the pill has to be taken within a 3 hour window, and fertilitycan return just one day after a missed pill. My periods are very light, but less predictable. Sometimes a day early, sometimes a day or two late. No change in libido, and unfortunately no improvement in acne.
Anon for this
I use NuvaRing and have never had any problems with it falling out or side effects, etc. My partner can occasionally feel it when we are intimate but he says it doesn’t bother him.
No longer on hormonal BC
My doctor said it was fine to take out during sex, as long as it’s re-inserted right after.
I really hated the ring, though. During certain parts of my cycle, it would feel like it was going to fall out. It also killed my sex drive and made PMS about 10,000 times worse. That was the last straw for me … after trying several types of pills and the ring, I decided that hormonal birth control is not for me. Condoms suck, but they’re better than the alternatives.
Sorry to threadjack the threadjack, but it infuriates me that doctors aren’t very upfront about the potential complications and side effects with hormonal birth control. I know I am not alone. Within my circle of close girlfriends, ALL of us have opted out after experiencing numerous problems, some more severe than others.
Anon for this
I just want to make a plug for the mini-pill (progestin-only). I can’t take estrogen, so I gave this a shot, and it works great for me!
anonymous
How are the side effects of the mini-pill? I was on the pill for over a decade and a pro of on-time daily taking, but realized that my basically adult-life-long low sex drive was probably due to being on the pill that whole time, so I’m trying the ring because of its lower hormone levels. These comments about the ring giving them a low sex drive are really worrisome. Why is this so hard??
Anon for this from 11:04am
For me, the side effects have been pretty much non-existent! I had on-and-off bleeding for the first 4-6 weeks I was on the mini-pill (very common), and from then on I’ve just had my normal cycle. I might get 1 day a month, or every other month, where I have random breakthrough bleeding, but I can totally handle that. I haven’t experienced weight gain/loss, hair growth/loss, or a lowered sex drive. Or acne. I get a little emotional a few days before my period (always have), but no bloating or cramps. Given that I can’t take estrogen, hated my IUD, and do not like condoms (and am in a stable long-term relationship so I am not worried about STD protection), the mini pill pretty much rocks.
Chicago
I also took the mini-pill (while breastfeeding). It is a lot more touchy than the regular pill — you must take it at the exact same time every day, and I think it has a higher failure rate. My doctor advised me to stop taking it as soon as I finished breastfeeding, which I did.
Anon for this from 11:04am
I’m curious as to why your doctor advised you to stop taking it as soon as you finished breastfeeding.
Diana Barry
My SIL got pregnant on the mini pill.
Anon
In response to the “my SIL got pregnant on the mini-pill” comment:
I think that, if we pool our collective experiences, regardless of the birth control method being discussed, some Corporette will know of someone who got pregnant despite using it perfectly (unless we’re talking abstinence). Nothing is 100% unless you aren’t having sex at all.
*Formerly* Preggo Angie
#2 came while I was on the mini-pill. I’m using Mirena now, but I have two kids.
Diana Barry
Higher failure rate – that’s why it’s worth mentioning. She was taking it at exactly the same time every day, etc.
May
The higher failure rate when compared with the standard pill is an established research finding.
Anon
This is Anon from 12:50pm.
I understand that the mini pill has a higher failure rate than the estrogen containing pill (by a difference of an additional 0.4%, I believe). However, my point was that I know women who have gotten pregnant while on the regular pill, the mini pill, with an IUD, with condoms plus one of the above, etc. There will always be someone in that percentage of perfect-use-still-failed regardless of the method.
Ses
Interesting. I am on day three of being off the pill (after 2 years on 2 different types) because I’m convinced it’s causing some mood issues. No warning from my gyn either. Would anyone mind sharing how long it took for things to go back to normal after stopping the pill?
Elle21
I would say it took me about 2 months to feel normal again after stopping the pill. It’s completely worth it.
Maddie Ross
Oh my gosh, I’m there with you. I’ve been off about 10 days now and am still feeling, well, off. I actually got so dizzy I passed out one morning last week, and I think it’s from going off the pill. I’d been on for 10 years though — 5 tri-cyclin, one bad year of Yaz, and for more tri-cyclins. I’m hoping it works its way out of me soon. I just keep telling myself I’m detoxing, like the people on VH1 celebrity rehab. Ha!
Alex
I was on pill/patch/ring for almost 20 years and have yet to “normalize” after going off (or maybe my “normal” is REALLY messed up). I’m going to my regular do to have a hormone panel run – I’m convinced I’m now all screwed up (plus I may have other issues, who knows). Somebody needs to really study the long term effects of taking the hormones.
On the ring I didn’t notice any problems. No falling out. I took it out during intimate times and just put it back in after (it would come out and could hurt at times).
MsZ
To OP and SES: I switched from the pill to NuvaRing for convenience issues; back to the pill because NuvaRing would kind of get uncomfortably wedged / start to work its way out, especially when jogging or working out; and then went off the pill altogether because it seemed ironic and hypocritical to be ingesting hormones while paying a premium for hormone-free meat and dairy. It took my body six months to have another period. I feel much “with it,” less bloated, and more vital than I did on the pill.
Ses
Thanks for the responses! I may repost during open thread on Friday to hear more as I’m now wondering if 2 months is about standard.
Maddie, I have felt tired and dizzy all day today and assumed I was just getting a sick coworker’s cold. Now I’m wondering if it’s our celebrity rehab! (heheh I like that.)
JenK
I hate the pill–just don’t like how I feel. I’m not with anybody, and as a single mom it’s very unlikely that I’d move that quickly but I’d like to find some hormonal solution for pms.
On the pill for men–sure it could work, if there was just enough research, but for the time being there’s hot-rubbing in his whitey tighties.
On topic: besides how that ruffle looks there’s also the question of what happens to a sweater or jacket worn over it.
Anonymous
I too absolutely hate hormonal birth control. Heck, I’d rather be chaste than deal with the side effects. I’ve been on five or six different types of hormonal contraceptives and none of them have been worth the trouble.
GovtMom
DITTO!!! I have had tons of problems with hormonal birth control. Had no idea how common the side effects were because when I brought them up with my drs (several over the years), they pooh-poo’ed me.
Last straw was the Mirena. Got it because the dr said there’s no chance of hormonal side effects because the dosage is so low and localized. She also said the only reason it falls out is if the dr didn’t insert it properly. Guess what? I lost all interest in sex, bled for 9 weeks (3-4 of them would have qualified me to be an extra in a slasher film) and then the thing fell out. Dr didn’t really believe me about the bleeding or falling out until he examined me and saw for himself that there was HUGE amounts of blood and the dang thing was, quite literally, hanging out of me.
Sorry to be so graphic, but this is a sore subject for me!
cbackson
Oh dear. I’m sorry you had that experience. They should have told you that the IUD can definitely expel, even if placed correctly. I’ve had one expel myself (Paragard).
(I have Mirena now and love it, but had a pretty horrible time with Paragard).
Anon Answer
Have it and love it, though I don’t love the $20 co pay. No pill-like side effects. I’ve never had it come out on its own, like other commenters have noted- the ring might not have been placed high up enough to stay in place. I was aware of it for the first day or so, then couldn’t feel it anymore after then. The first month I had increased discharge (healthy), then my system went back to normal.
It rarely pops out in the bedroom, and when it does, we just laugh it off. Partner says he occasionally feels it but it doesn’t bother him. Sometimes I’ll take it out for a few hours if I know we are going to be, ehem, busy for a while (Dr said no more than 4 hrs).
stc
Had it for a few months (got it free from student health) but with my insurance now, it was a $50 co-pay. I liked it, but not that much.
Jen
I am sorry to hear so many people have had problems with the ring. I have been on it for about 5 years, and I love it! My boyfriend feels it only occasionally, and I would say it’s only come out during sex maybe 2 or three times in 5 years. I haven’t experienced any kind of drop in sex drive, or at least I haven’t noticed any.
I also suffer from migraines generally, but I never noticed any increase in frequency or intensity when on the ring. I wonder if this might be because I take it continuously rather than having a week off for a period–perhaps the steady hormones rather than fluctuating hormones helps avoid the migraines in some way?
All in all, I love being on the ring and can’t wait for it to go generic so it’s cheaper. In the meantime, though, I totally think the peace of mind of not having to remember a pill every day far outweighs the cost of the ring.
Mir
I have never used NuvaRing (though some of my girlfriends love it), but RE your question about noticing it during intimacy, male friends have commented to me that they notice and dislike their girlfriend’s rings. May be case-specific, though?
KOB
Just wanted to give a plug for the non-hormonal (Paraguard) IUD — AMAZING. It’s easily inserted at one office visit, effective for 10 years, but return to fertility is immediate if you decide to get it out. I loved it and recommend it to all of my friends.
Niktaw
ParaGuard is not without side effects, though.
And it can be felt by the man during intercourse.
But it does not have hormones, and this outweighs the drawbacks for me.
found a peanut
I would not be super concerned about the man feeling it during intercourse. I mean, is it not enough that we have to take on the burden of preventing pregnancy? Being able to feel it during intercourse doesn’t seem like that big of a price to pay. Sheesh.
Anon
I had the paragaurd for 6 years before trying to get pregnant. I LOVED it, despite the heavier periods. I was able to get pregnant right away once it was removed. If your partner can feel it, then you can have the strings trimmed.
I currently have the Mirena IUD, and so far I like it. Though my sex drive is lower, but that could be due to exhaustion and breastfeeding. I’m going to wait and see how things are once the baby weans.
anon
I switched from the ring to the paraguard and love it. I loved the ring, too, but I got migraines that I attribute to it, and none since switching to the paraguard.
eaopm3
I was on it for about four years. I stopped using it because I realized that it ruined my sex drive. Every now and then it would come out during intimacy, leading to a frantic search to find that expensive little bugger, but it only happened every now and then. I could never feel it and H never told me he felt it, either. Mine also never fell out on its own.
I’ve tried basically every type of birth control and Depo works best for me in terms of lack of side effects.
rcc
I have used nuvaring for about 5 years, and I love the thing — it really works for me. I could not ,even after 10 years of being on the pill, ever remember to take the stupid pill every day. I hated it. Nuvaring fixed all that. Plus, my gyno suggested that I just leave it in all the time, which means I haven’t had my period in 5 years. No period, no tampons, and even better, no PMS. I haven’t noticed any headaches, auras, or difference in sex drive. Partner has never said that he feels it, and it has never fallen out, not during sex, or while I was just walking along. There are obviously lots of different views and experiences — you just have to decide what works for you.
gref
I’ve been using it for about 4 or 5 years now and I am a huge fan. I’m so happy to have a hormonal birth control option that’s not a pill because I am a flake and would forget to take it all the time.
It is hormonal birth control though, so everyone’s experience is going to be a little different. Around my period, sometimes I get really bad migraine style headaches, sometime a get a minor headache that an Ibuprofen takes care of, sometimes I get no headache at all.
And yeah, it’s kind of expensive, but for me, SOOOO worth it.
Anon.
I use Nuvaring. I’m willing to pay the extra to not have to stress about a baby with the DH. I’ve used it for a year or so now — my husband says he can feel it but also claims he doesn’t mind. I’ve offered to go back on the pill if it bugs him, so I think he’d tell me. Likewise, it’s never come out and I don’t notice it at all. In fact, if I didn’t set a calendar reminder, I’d never remember when to take it out or put it in!
Circe
I’m with the above posters about the chest seam on this dress. Seems to chop it up weirdly.
Does anyone have experience with Junior Drake bags? I’m completely in love with the one featured at the Nordstrom anniversary sale, but am hesitant to pull the trigger on a $264 bag that none of my friends can vouch for. Thanks for any replies!
Sonia
I love them! But 4264 sounds very high. Try overstock.com first or if you are in NYC, Century21 always seems to have them. A fair price would be between 125 and 175 although I have seen cheaper ones on discount sites like ideeli, etc.
Road Warriorette
I really really like this from the front. But that ruffle on the back is just….weird. It’s not necessarily pirate-y, just weird. Bummer, because from the front it’s very cute and interesting.
For those of you who love Boden (like I do), they are having a final clearance sale of up to 60% off. The skirt I just got in the mail YESTERDAY has gone down from $35 to $23 (originally $70). They still have a ton of cute stuff in a range of sizes.
CW
You can call them and they will give you store credit for the difference. I did this just the other day. They didn’t offer me a refund though.
anon-oh-no
I did this too — no offer of refund, but got store credit.
SadAnon
Not going to apologize about the threadjack because I really need some advice.
Can you recommend resources for how to tell your family and friends you’re filing for divorce? My husband and I are meeting this weekend to put some type of “communication plan” together and while we came to this decision after 2 years of counseling (both together and separate), I’m still feeling heartbroken about the whole situation. We don’t have kids and we’re on excellent terms, respect each other, and are currently living apart.
We have a lot of mutual friends who will think this is coming out of nowhere. We’re both very private people who have confided in a couple of close friends/ family during this time. To make matters worse, we are from very different cultures and we’re both worried about how his very conservative Asian parents will take the news.
Any books or websites that have helped others personally would be really appreciated.
Anonymous
No advice but sending some good thoughts and energy your way.
May
Sending a huge big hug and good thoughts your way.
Eponine
I think that, just like an engagement, this is the kind of information that immediate family and close friends deserve to hear personally, rather than via email or facebook. So give them a call and let them know. I’d just say basically what you said here – that unfortunately you and your husband have decided after two years of counseling that your marriage is not salvageable, and you’re filing for divorce but remain on good terms. He needs to tell his parents himself, and he should make clear to them that you’re still friends and that they shouldn’t blame anyone for it.
For less close friends, I think it’s fine for them to find out through the grapevine or even via facebook. Yeah, some people might gossip or speculate, but you’re under no obligation to awkwardly explain yourself to them. If you’ll be changing your name, then I think you should email your professional contacts and advise them of the name change (there was an epic thread on this on Corporette). Otherwise, there’s no need to broadcast the news at work, although presumably people will hear through the grapevine.
If people who don’t know about the divorce ask you how your husband is, just say something like “He’s well, but unfortunately we split up and are currently going through a divorce.” No need to say more.
SadAnon
Thanks all for the positive thoughts and advice.
Anonylawyer
I’m going through this too. I’m sorry you’re joining this crappy club. I’m currently reading Divorce Sucks (free download on Kindle) by the ex-wife of Tori Spellings current husband. I may be able to relate to that one better, as my husband cheated on me and we have children together.
I don’t know if there’s a good way to tell people, other than to say that you and your husband are splitting up and that things are amicable. I would also communicate with your husband to know what the public story would be. You need to be on the same page for that. People will ask what happened. Although part of the statement would be that you are keeping the details private, you’d probably want some sort of “statement” if you will – such as we grew apart, we realized we were different people but ultimatey not life partners, etc.
Divorce is so painful. I am sending you a big hug.
SadAnon
Thanks Anonlawyer. I’ll download the kindle book. One of the reasons we’re meeting this weekend is to “get the story straight.” I’m sorry to hear you’re going through this, too, and wish you all the best.
GovtMom
I’m so very sorry to you both, SadAnon and AnonyLawyer. I’m trying to avoid a divorce right now, so I can only imagine how painful that next step is. Please take care of yourselves through this.
Lil
Is there any way you two might change your mind?
Divorce is SO not worth it. I would do anything to undo mine, over five years later, even though my H was abusive. The shame and humiliation will consume you for the rest of your life and you *will* miss your H (not to mention all the friends who will desert you), no matter how many great men come into your life thereafter!!!
meme
Shame and humilitiation because of getting out of an abusive relationship that you wish you were still in? Lil, I sincerely think you should consider seeing a therapist.
meme
I just re-read my post and I’m sorry if it came across as mean or judgmental or something. I did not mean it that way, really. I just want to say, gently, that it seems like maybe you need some help.
Lil
Thanks, I have been seeing several for the last 5 years…but truth is truth:
In marriage, you promise to love one person in front of God and everyone. If you divorce, it means you broke the biggest promise of your life. End of story.
Sure, plenty of therapists will happily tell me I was justified while I pay them lots of money to do so. Doesn’t change the facts above.
Assist
Not everyone believes in the same things you do. You might want to consider that.
cbackson
Your experience =/= universal truth.
Eponine
It sounds like your husband broke his biggest promise when he abused the person he vowed to love, cherish and protect.
Arachna
Not what I promised in my marriage ceremony so *shrug*.
Betty White
Wow, I don’t think this is universal. My mother left my verbally abusive father and has always said it was the best decision of her life. It’s not worth it to be miserable in an unhappy relationship. Life is too short–especially when there are no kids involved. I don’t see any shame or humiliation in it either. I’m sure some people do, but I don’t think it’s fair to assume that’s universal.
Lil
I agree; plenty of people out there have no conscience and can break apart families with impunity and “start over.” It is all about them, after all…right?
I thought I could survive after divorce because I had good reason; I was wrong. At every holiday or family event, I have to think of my former relatives-in-law, all of whom I love and was very close to, realizing that they all hate me now.
lawtalkinggirl
I doubt Lil is a troll. I have met people who have similar views about marriage.
Betty White
I didn’t think she was a troll until this last comment. It’s all about them? Well, yes, it is. Your marriage (if you haven’t had kids yet) IS all about you. And as a child of divorced parents, I can tell you, we were much happier after the divorce.
Betty White
Sorry for assuming you were a troll–that was unfair of me. I just honestly am shocked to hear a woman who left an abusive relationship say that she regretted doing so because of the shame of divorce. Good luck to you–I’m sure what you’re going through is hard, but it’s only made that much harder by your strict view of what married people should commit to. It doesn’t have to be that way.
Anonymous
This is really really rude and uncalled for. Implying that people who divorce have no conscience. That is just awful. If your experience with your divorce was bad, that’s really too bad. But I know plenty of people who are still friends with their ex-inlaws and live a great life after divorce. Don’t project that you didn’t on everyone else.
One of the benefits of not living in a strictly religious country is that people are allowed to define marriage for themselves. People have a right to define it how they want, and if marrying a showgirl or chippendales dancer two days after meeting is what someone wants to do, then it’s not your or my place to judge him or her. You make decisions for you, other people make decisions for them. See what that God you reference says about judging other people.
Assist
I disagree.
found a peanut
this is a troll, right?
Betty White
Definitely a troll, I’ve discovered.
Lil
I am not a troll. Just someone who takes family and commitment seriously. Surely I cannot be the only woman on this board who feels this way, has high standards for herself, and would take a catastrophic and very public personal failure quite hard.
Noner
High standards in choosing to stand up for themselves and get out of a situation where they are not being valued for the wonderful person that they are, yes, I think there are many women like that on this board.
And frankly, it sound like your ex-husband broke his promise to love and cherish you first. And while I can appreciate you take family and commitment seriously, I think there are shade of gray, rather than the black and white you’re staking your mental health on.
Peach
Exactly what Noner said. If you make a promise to pay someone $100/week to clean your home, and you promise in front of God and your friends and sign a contract, that doesn’t mean you’ve done anything wrong if the person who has promised to clean your home in exchange for this money suddenly starts coming over and sprinkling crumbs around your home as well. You certainly wouldn’t be obligated to continue paying for this “service.”
And frankly, a commitment is only as big as you want to make it – but you are viewing your word is THE most important thing (more so than your well-being). You’ve blown the concept of marriage up into something it’s not for many people – including your ex. What would you have accomplished by staying with him? What if his abuse escalated and you were permanently injured or died? Would this have been a better outcome because you wouldn’t have broken your commitment? I don’t think so.
I’m sure you’re a smart woman – please, let logic prevail. Stop beating yourself up and stop giving terrible advice.
MaggieLizer
Same Lil from the weekend thread?
Miriam
I agree! Troll
Diana Barry
Ditto.
eaopm3
Oy vey.
healthcare anon
@ Lil, whether troll or not.
Kudos for taking family and commitment seriously. However (troll or not), take yourself, your SAFETY, your emotional and physical well being seriously as well. You cannot do your family or marriage (or former in-laws) any good while suffering. Instead of thinking about how much you miss him, spend some time finding yourself and healing.
Anonylawyer
Given that my husband cheated on me for 3 years, even while I was pregnant, I would say that the shame and humiliation is on him, not me. I think it is 100% worth it for me to get a divorce because I deserve better than an emotionally abusive cheater who was willing to expose me and our unborn child to STDs. I have been going through this process for 2 months and even though it’s hard, I feel SO much better to be fighting for a better life for me and my children. As a woman, I deserve more than abuse. I could care less about what other people think. If anyone dares to judge me, he or she wasn’t a good friend to begin with!
Betty White
Amen, sister! You definitely do. My mother went through something similar and I can tell you that all parties are happier post-divorce.
somewhere(less)cold
Hugs to you Anonylawyer!
Amelia
I just saw your reply Anonylawyer, and I wanted to follow-up to say that my previous comment was in no way directed at you, nor do I want to heap judgment on you for making what was, assuredly, a very difficult decision.
Outdoor girl
I just saw your reply Anonylawyer, and I wanted to follow-up to say that my previous comment was in no way directed at you, nor do I want to heap judgment on you for making what was, assuredly, a very difficult decision.
Amelia
You know, I disagree with some of your content and approach Lil, but at the same time I have to say that I do agree with the generalized sentiment. I don’t think it should be used to shame people who’ve already made their choices, BUT, I do wish that people took the commitment of marriage more seriously, both before and after. I understand that when someone marries a person who is abusive, emotionally or physically, divorce is a very valid and appropriate (and not at all shameful) option. However, I don’t think emotionally or physically abusive people are such great actors, and there are likely signs before marriage that should alert you to a person not being a good lifelong mate. To rush to marriage, or to do so when you have serious reservations/evidence that the person you are marrying will not make a good life mate, is tantamount to breaking the biggest promise you’ll ever make before you’ve even made it. I think that our culture has not thought of marriage as finding a life mate for some time, but rather as staking your claim to this person so long as…
If that’s the way marriage is going, fine, I won’t complain and I certainly won’t begrudge anyone their life choices. BUT if you are a person who believes that marriage is a lifelong commitment, it’s totally understandable that you’d be upset about breaking that commitment.
PollyD
Yeah, I do have sympathy, but sort of hate that the term “starter marriage” has become rather commonplace. To me it almost implies you expected the marriage to fail.
I wish more people realized that you don’t HAVE to get married, even if all your friends are. I also wish that single people (especially older people) were portrayed more sympathetically in the media instead of as a bunch of loser weirdos who are really dying to get married, no matter how much they try to hide it.
Anonylawyer
At least in my case, I didn’t really know. Usually when you get married, the relationship is still strong and life is pretty easy. You’re in love, your partner treats you well, all you have to take care of is yourselves. Add in kids, jobs, bills, debt and the associated stresses and there’s no telling how your spouse will respond. You may grow apart, or your spouse may become depressed due to the pressure. In my case, my STBX developed a drinking problem, which markedly changed the way he treated me. He was always a heavy drinker, but in your mid-20s that’s not abnormal. As pressures increased, his alcohol dependance became clear and worstened.
Believe me, I am a firm believer in marriage. Before this happened, I used to say to people that every single marriage could end in divorce. The only difference between those that last and those that don’t is that in the marriages that last, the spouses don’t give up. Sometimes, though, you have to cut your losses. Life is too short to be miserable. While I think you should fight for marriage, part of maturity is realizing when you just can’t fight any longer. In my case, it took adultery which shook the foundations of a marriage so weakened by abuse and alcoholism, that it just fell apart.
Ballerina Girl
Honestly, I believe in marriage, but I don’t believe in martyrdom. I think that some people don’t work hard at their marriages, but I also don’t know that I think that’s always terrible. I think that marriage mainly exists to keep children in a stable environment and a rotten marriage isn’t so stable all the time. I think we’ve evolved past marriage in a lot of ways.
Really, I just think to each his own. I think that no one deserves to be in an abusive relationship, and I think that some people dont’ work hard enough to make their relationships work (not talking about abuse here). But I think at the end of the day, marriage is kind of overrated and it’s really about happiness and commitment–for both people involved. Why should anyone be in a loveless marriage? Who does that really benefit?
cbackson
I think that it’s important to understand that very few people, if any, get married believing that they will divorce. The truth is that people change, and there may not be signs at all that your marriage will fall apart, because the person you married is not the person you divorce.
(Or who divorces you – another thing that’s important to understand in all of this discussion of broken promises and such is that in a no-fault system, only one person has to decide to end the marriage. The other spouse has, literally, no choice.)
markymark
I am in the exact same situation. Have been breaking up for two years, we went to counseling for a year, he moved out 6 months ago, and now I am signing divorce papers. We each told our parents and a few of our closest friends. We negotiated / talked about how to tell people, but now that the papers are signed, we are not talking about those details so much.
I still haven’t told some of my siblings and definitely not my extended family (cousins, aunts, uncles etc). I am now of the thought that I am responsible for telling the most important people in my life, but after that it can just spill out however it does. I need to spend my energy helping myself heal, not worrying about how other people will take the news about my personal life.
I have found that it is getting easier to tell people. I keep it very simple and make it clear that I am not interested in providing details. Since it is uncontested and amicable, I am not interested in people making him or me out to be the bad guy. I just say things like: “We are breaking up / getting divorced” “It just wasn’t working out” or “We tried to work on it, but this is what we have decided is best for both of us.” “It’s hard, but we are trying our best to come out of this friends.”
Honestly, I have found that I am feeling more shame and humiliation than anyone is putting upon me. Most people I have told feel bad and wish us both the best. I think if two adults decide that it is not working, it is certainly painful, but sometimes the right decision is to end it before it gets worse.
Sleepyette
Thread jack for my sleep deprived self —
I have made a lot of changes in the past year towards taking MUCH better care of myself. Cut back on the crazy work hours, decided that Rome did not, indeed, have to be built in a day, started working out, eating right, and making more “me” time. I’m happier, healthier (down 50+ lbs and training for a half marathon), and due in part to my new quality over quantity attitude at work, got promoted a few months ago.
Which is all well and good but last night, for the first time in months, I had to stay up very, very late to finish a work project. I am currently running on about three hours of sleep. In the spirit of “putting myself first” I kept my 5am alarm this morning and went out and did my run, despite 1.) wanting to bury my head under the blanket and die and 2.) the weather at 5am being 85 degrees with 80% humidity.
I feel like a grandmother but this is the first time in as long as I can remember that I haven’t gotten at least six hours of quality sleep before going to work. The run did not wake me up. My protein powered breakfast did not wake me up. My giant water bottle is not waking me up. I am actually scared that I may fall asleep at my desk.
To all of you used to burning the midnight oil, HOW DO YOU DO THIS??? (keep in mind I have cut caffeine out of my diet…) Any advice to make it until the end of the day?
govt lawyer
Congrats to you on the positive changes you’ve made to your life, you’re really an inspiration (and one I need right now). As to how I personally do it, caffeine is a big part. Without it (or if it’s not working): cold showers (that include wetting hair). Next time, I would choose sleep over working out. It’s really that much more important.
Elle21
I would recommend a twenty minute power nap (if you are in an office setting that would permit such a thing) and/or washing your face.
Sometimes putting yourself first means recognizing that your body needs sleep and allowing yourself the rest instead of the run.
meg
make an exception and drink a small amount of caffeine today…
Ru
Please share how you motivated yourself! I need to build up my lung power and even though running is not my most favorite activity in the world, it’s doable. I’m sleepy even with regular sleep and caffeine and I’m convinced that my poor breathing is to blame. How do you do it?
Eponine
Have you seen an asthma specialist or pulmonologist? Trouble breathing isn’t just a sign of being out of shape – it is usually a sign of a health problem. You might have exercise-induced asthma (which I also have), and using an inhaler before exercise may clear your lungs.
Ru
I do have exercise-induced asthma and the only way to increase my lung function is to gradually increase cardio with the appropriate medication. I did it last summer and eventually built my lungs up to the point where I didn’t need an inhaler at all. I’m feeling so lethargic about building it up again this summer.
ADB_BWG
Have you been evaluated for sleep apnea? I am always tired, with or without caffeine, and after a sleep study learned that it is because my REM sleep is constantly interrupted.
somewhere(less)cold
Since I cut my caffeine by a lot (although not entirely), I drink ice water throughout the day. Is your water bottle really cold?
Eponine
Can you take a 15 minute nap in your office? Frankly, the only thing that truly rejuvenates you is sleep.
If that’s not a possibility, try to stay cool (heat makes you sleepier) and try to get a little sunlight in the middle of the day to suppress melatonin.
May
First off, Sleepyette, congratulations for all your wonderful achievements listed here.
Your self control and commitment are really exemplary.
I think having a lot of (?extra) sleep most days makes it easier to deal with deprivation as a one-off.
I just keep taking coffee and usually the adrenaline associated with whatever is keeping me at work keeps me going but a higher level of stimulation (think music etc) helps. I also find I end up eating more on those days but I can’t really say that helps.
Sleepyette
Thank you all for the advice! I may be able to sneak in a 15 min nap over lunch and I am using paper towels with cold water on my wrists right now to wake myself up. I also added some ice cubes to my water bottle…
Ru — I never, EVER, thought I could run but I decided to try after becoming bored out of my ever living mind with at home work out videos. I read online that if you are just starting running you should run 50% slower than you think you are comfortable at so that’s what I did. I also started with super small distances — I think my first run was about a third of a mile. I just kept at it and now I’ve really fallen in love with running. Things that kept me motivated at first included buying cute new running clothes (hello, lululemon), downloading new songs for my iPod that I was only allowed to listen to when I ran, and getting to go a little bit further every day. Now, about 75% of the time I love it. The other 25% — I tell myself that it’s like brushing my teeth or wearing shoes that aren’t my comfy flip flops to work. Just part of my non-optional daily routine =)
Makeup Junkie
Congratulations!
I’ve list 25 pounds over the last couple of years and currently work in a firm that encourages all-nighters. Here’s what I usually do:
*green tea (easier on the system than coffee)
*push-ups
*power naps
*blush (I start to look grey when I don’t sleep)
*eat whatever I want, usually pancakes, eggs, and bacon. I figure one day isn’t going to reverse all my gains and thus far it hasn’t, but you probably know your own triggers
I hope you get some rest soon!
westsidebee
Are those pockets?!
Amelia
maybe it’s the way the model is pulling at the dress with her hands (in the pockets?) but this dress looks misshapen. The belt would destroy my short waisted, long legged silhouette, in fact, I can’t really wear any kind of belt because of that.
Threadjack–Ladies, I’m well on my way to losing my grad school weight and I’m super pumped about it! Of course, it’s two days in (and I’ve lost 1.4 pounds of water weight yay! Just 50 more to go…yes 50) and I’m concerned that this level of enthusiasm will start to wane, especially when I hit a plateau, or when I’m dealing with stress at work or home. How do you ladies stay motivated to complete a goal…especially the kind of goal that requires you to make lifestyle changes?
Ru
Tracking – the ultimate tool for any goal, whether it’s grades, promotions or the price of a dress. Track your weight, food and exercise. I joined weight watchers to get rid of the 45 lbs that undergrad + grad school have given me and so far, I’m down 20 (after 5 that I got rid of on my own). 20 more to go.
You don’t need to join or pay for anything, especially since there are so many free apps and websites out there but do this the old-fashioned way – grab a huge wall calendar and put your weight on there. If you weigh yourself on Tuesday mornings, from now on you shall only weigh yourself on Tuesday mornings and write that on the calendar in marker – look at it and let it remind you of your progress. I’m an engineer so I like spreadsheets – graphs showing me declines are great, too =). Myfitnesspal is a great app and website and one of my friends has lots dozens of pounds via spark people (I think that’s what it’s called). Good luck!
Sleepyette
First of all congrats on making the lifestyle changes! It’s a huge decision and one you should be super proud of =)
For me the easiest way to do it was to break it down into a series of mini goals. 50 lbs sounds very scary but 5 lbs sounds very doable. Cutting out all processed food is terrifying but saying that every day you will sub one crap snack with a piece of fruit is much easier. You would never go from no activity to an Iron Man Triathalon, but committing to a Biggest Loser DVD 3 nights a week doesn’t seem scary (all of these things — things I did!)
For me it was much easier to make small changes in baby steps. Healthy choices lead to more healthy choices. Good luck!!!
meara
Similar to Ru, I’ve been doing some tracking after a friend was talking about preschoolers she works with–I printed out a couple months worth of calendars, bought a bunch of shiny star stickers, and have been giving myself a gold star every time I work out! It’s really nice to be able to look back at the month and see “Yeah, that week I worked out FIVE TIMES, GO ME!” (or sadly, “yeah, only twice that week…I chickened out while traveling for work and need to not do that!”) Now, granted, I started this while also starting to work out with a trainer a couple times a week (appointments make me go!) so that’s helped, but a lot of it has been me dragging my butt to the gym or the yoga studio!
Now if only I can figure out a way to get my eating under control…
MaggieLizer
For me, it’s all about the visual evidence. Take pictures of yourself, and not just your face. I know, it’s painful. But in a few months when you hit that plateau, you can compare the pictures to what you see in the mirror and really appreciate the change you’ve made.
If you still have any of your old clothes, pick a few outfits you really want to get into again. Try to get them on now, then put them in the back of your closet. Try again in a month or two. Even if you still can’t quite make it, you’ll see how much closer you are to reclaiming that fabulous dress. And it’s a really great feeling when you can get back into your favorite pieces.
Makeup Junkie
I am in complete agreement with Ru; tracking is the way to go. Fitday dot com was very helpful for me. Good luck!
Seattleite
I reward myself for the effort, not the results. So, every day I have the opportunity to earn 4 points: 1 for drinking enough water, 1 for eating enough protein, 1 for staying below my (ample) carb count, and 1 for exercising. (Yes, I’m a protein-averse carb hound, and feel much better when I avoid one and increase the other.)
Points can be redeemed for money at the end of the month.
This is the only thing that works for me, because I can be absolutely perfect for two weeks and not lose an ounce. The third, or sometimes even the fourth, week, I may drop ten pounds. I don’t know if it’s that my body is particularly weird or my scale is just that bad (but I suspect the former, as it’s been this way for 3 -increasingly expensive – scales now).
I can control my actions, but I can’t control what my body does as a result of those actions. So I reward my good behavior and don’t obsess about my body’s response.
Anonymous
What a great system! I’m not looking to lose weight, so sometimes it’s hard to motivate myself to do the things we all need to do to be healthy – drink water, exercise, etc. I think something similar to your system would really work for me. Thanks.
Ru
I like this, it seems like a really kind way of doing good for yourself. I might do this, too.
NYC
Congrats, Amelia! I highly highly recommend the book or workbook from Beck’s Diet Solution. It is not an eating plan, but rather a cognitive therapy book that helps you keep your weight loss goals in mind. It is a wonderful book that will help keep you motivated over the long haul. Losing weight takes sustained effort — I think that is the hardest part about it. Good luck!
anon
I’m not at all affiliated with this blog, but I think this is kinda how it works for most people with lifestyle changes (just takes different shapes and forms):
http://www.healthytippingpoint.com/2011/07/running-is-for-crazy-people.html
Amelia
Thank-you everyone for the great advice about staying motivated, I’m feeling even more motivated that before I asked. And keep em coming if there’s more.
Ms. Basil E. Frankweiler
For SF Bay Associate-
Came across this and thought you may want to check it out (http://gap.us/pr5XBm).
Bonus: 35% off with BRONGAP35.
TCFKAG
I don’t know how SF Bay Associate will feel, but I like it. :-)
SF Bay Associate
Aw, Ms. Basil, thank you! So thoughtful. I’m looking for black, but I can definitely see the appeal of the Gap one. I ordered this one http://shop.nordstrom.com/s/cole-haan-lamb-scuba-jacket/3031846 yesterday – nearly $500 after tax is well over what I wanted to spend, but if it fits great and feels like butter, I might keep it. Otherwise, it will have to go back.
Eponine
Oh, that is beautiful. It makes me wish I had a need for a leather jacket… hmm.
Anon
I really wish this board wasnt used for talks about sex or birth control. Some of us find that inappropriate for workplace chatter and it makes the board inappropriate for us at work.
I’m sure I’m not hte only one who doesnt want to read about these types of things on this blog.
Just my two cents.
Amelia
You probably aren’t the only one who doesn’t want to read about it, but you are probably the only one complaining. Unlike workplace chatter, reading posts on a message board can be easily avoided. There’s a scroll bar over here——–>
I do wish that the commenting section was more sophisticated though, such that you can block specific users, or register and keep your username, etc. If there was a way to donate to Kat so that she can afford an update to a different platform, I would happily do it! For the time being I’ll keep clicking the links.
Thought
You are essentially asking the hundreds of women who visit this site on a daily basis to accomodate you. There are topics that I can’t stand or that are not applicable to me at all. Instaed of asking the posters to refrain from discussing those topics in the future, I just ignore them and move on. So, when you see a threadjack about either of those topics, just scroll down to the next main posting. That way, you can avoid reading about topics that make you uncomfortable and you won’t have to worry about someone seeing your screen and reading the topic you think are inappropriate. Hope this helps.
Anon
I’m not asking an unreasonable accomodation. Breast feeding, fine. Dating, divorce, fine. Graphic talks about rings popping out while intimate and if your partner can feel them. . . completely innappropriate. And on this site you cannot block the comments so I have the words “sex drive” and “Condoms suck” visible to the IT department on my computer (actual quotes from the above thread).
Miriam
I understand your point, but if you are that concerned about what IT will see on your work computer, then why are you on this site at work to begin with? Do you really think that they will go through everything on your computer, see each word, and have a problem with it? I think it is a legitimate concern that women have. Birth control shouldn’t be taboo, and these are things that many of us care about and should care about.
Accountress
So are pussy-bowed blouses going to get you in hot water?
Do you really think IT’s going to care about a few specific phrases, as opposed to the fact that this is a (probably) non-work-related site, period?
(Is “period” a bad word, too? My bad.)
Anonymous
Not attacking you, totally feel that way about some topics– not offended or twitterpated, but bored or busy or just not a bull’s-eye. So, really, just scroll on. This is such a lovely community. No need to censor because we trust eachother. In fact, we can be comically polite, apologizing for things… “sorry to ask about mom stuff since not everyone is a mom”… (so sweet and unneccisarily self-depricating; ask and be heard by the herd!) but how wonderful it is when the topic at hand IS a bull’s-eye and just what you needed or just what you’ve been through so you can help a bloggo friend. Truly, not attacking, but it you really read this blog and value it, I’m sure you can see the value in not-for-us topics being just-right for others and making their far-away day. Scroll on, bloggo friend. :)
Anonylawyer
I don’t thin that sex or birth control are shameful topics for mature women. If you don’t want to read about it, scroll past those comments. I am not interested in every topic posted and I simply ignore those that I don’t want to participate in. This board’s format is subtle enough that sex/birth control topics are easily ignored and are not clearly visible to others looking over your shoulders.
Bonnie
Just scroll down.
Lyssa
Got a weight management question for you ladies. I’m pretty slim, but in the past few months I’ve noticed a little bit of creep, maybe 3 pounds more, on average. It’s nothing to freak out about, and I’ve got a long way to go before I could get to an unhealthy weight, but if it continues like this, I’m going to need an new wardrobe, which I certainly don’t want. So, based a lot on comments here, I decided to count calories and nip this thing in the bud.
I signed up for myfitnesspal.com (I see Ru recommended it above, and I’ve seen others plug it before). Thing is, it’s recommending that, to lose weight (at the lowest rate it gives an option for), I need to limit myself to 1200 calories a day. That seems like a ridiculously tiny amount to me. I’ve always understood that anything below 1200 puts the body into starvation mode and screws up the metabolism.
Bear in mind that I am small, and that is based on a sedentary lifestyle with no exercise (I try to get it in when I can, and that ups my calorie limits, but on the whole, it’s just not my thing), but is that too small of a number? I’ve been tracking, and I usually eat fairly light and in small portions, so it’s doable, but it just seems too small to me. What do you think?
(I’ll note that my husband signed up, too; he’s on the shorter side of normal height and just wants to lose about 5 lbs or so, and it told him 1500 and change per day, which also seems very small for an adult male.)
Anonymous
It is hard to know for sure without having more specifics (weight, height, frame – small bones?, body fat percentage, etc). In general, though, if you are shorter, slimmer, small frame, and a higher body fat percentage (i’m not saying you are fat! but just that you have less muscle b/c you aren’t getting physical activity), then 1200 sounds about right to me.
I think that “anything under 1200 puts the body into starvation mode” is about as useful as “a BMI over 25 makes you overweight”. There are a LOT of factors that should go into these calculations, none of which such sweeping statements can account for.
Lyssa
I’m definitely small-boned, and you’re right, I would say that I’m at a higher body fat percentage. I’m glad to see that others don’t find the 1200 too low; to tell you the truth, I probably got that from some teenaged anti-eating disorder literature that was passed out when I was a kid or something. I just remember reading it “somewhere”.
CW
Based on my weight loss goals, both my personal trainer and the calorie tracking website that I use (myfooddiary.com) said that for my weight loss goals, I should eat 1200 calories/day if I want to lose 1 pound per week. At first it did seem really extreme – and it was hard! – after a few weeks I found that 1200 calories is enough to maintain my energy level, give me energy to work out, and not leave me hungry.
A Regular Lurker
I looked into MyFitnessPal after I saw it recommended on here, and it recommended a lower calorie allotment for my goals than LoseIt, which I had previously been using (off and on). It sounds like cheating, and maybe it is, but you might want to look at a different program and see how that works for you.
Anonnc
Yes, 1200 is small and probably not sustainable for the long term. It’s not worth it to get on that metabolic roller coaster to lose 3 pounds! Can you use the site as a tracking tool only? Also, it’s not always necessary to track calories to lose — simply journaling what you’re eating and being conscious of portion sizes can be enough.
KOB
I’m also on the about 1200 cal. a day limit, but I do exercise quite a bit so that gives me more calories on the Lose it app. But, 1200 is very reasonable to live on — I usually have about 240 calories for breakfast (a Fiber One bar and 100 cal yogurt) which then leaves almost 500 calories a meal for later in the day, more for snacks if I’m exercising. Think of foods that are filling but low calorie (fruit, carrots, etc.) and it will go pretty far. Long answer to your question, but I don’t think 1200 a day is too low.
Lyssa
Does that breakfast keep you full? I’m usually starving by 10-11 am, and I”m looking for more breakfast options, since I realized that my usual cereal and milk (both of which I was pouring pretty heavy) added up to over 400 calories.
CW
For breakfast (in the summer) I typically eat 1) 2/3 cup of Ezekiel cereal (typically the cinnamon raisin) and 1/2 cup of skim milk (which doesn’t sound like a lot of food, but is really filling) for about 305 calories, or 2) “overnight oats” (you can google it – it’s basically oatmeal that you prepare the night before and let it sit in the fridge rather than hot oatmeal) made with yogurt, skim milk, cranberries and walnuts. In the proportions that I make it, it’s about 200 calories. The overnight oats do not fill me up for as long as the cereal (probably because of the portion size).
I can’t substitute bars for food, ever. No matter how calorie dense they are, they never fill me up. I also can’t eat just yogurt at breakfast. I need to have a solid mix of carbs and protein.
Pebbles
I love Quaker Oats Weight Control oatmeal. It comes a couple of flavors, has a lot of protein and fiber, and only 1 gram of sugar. One packet with water is only 160 calories. The packets transport easily in case I want to eat breakfast at work, and it’s the only thing I’ve found that keeps me full until lunch (cereal, even Kashi, leaves me starving).
anon
One egg is 70 calories. Eggs are a great base for a low calorie meal (just don’t add lots of oil, butter, etc)
meara
On weeks when I’ll be in town for several days, I’ve been making a frittata/quiche thing–lots of filling veggies (there’s a cauliflower/broccoli tray at Trader Joe’s I use) and a wee bit of cheese and eggs or egg substitute. If I don’t add crust or potatoes, it works out to about 130 calories for a quarter of a pie dish! Very filling and proteiny.
Now if I could just figure out what to eat for breakfast on days I’m traveling for work (all the food at quick places like Starbucks is so bad for me or not worth the calories!)
SF Bay Associate
I used to travel a lot on business. Two tips on breakfast – 1) bring instant oatmeal packs with you in your luggage, and a bowl (or get a bowl from housekeeping). You can find hot water and a spoon somewhere, and a paper towel and soap to clean out your bowl each day. 2) Get the Starbucks “perfect oatmeal,” made with soymilk, and don’t use any of the toppings (sugar, nuts, fruit) they offer you. Instead, buy one of the bananas at the register, and slice it thinly with a plastic knife, throw that in your oatmeal, and then close the lid for a couple of minutes to let it all warm together. 3) At some starbucks are the Naket protein shakes – this is a good breakfast too, if you add the fresh banana.
Jas
I find an egg or oatmeal make me feel much fuller for the amount of calories than other breakfast foods. I’ve also found that it doesn’t work for me to go for a low calorie breakfast because I find it makes it harder for me to control portions/snacking around dinner.
KOB
Yes, but my situation is somewhat unique — I went from training for a marathon, to pregnancy, to breastfeeding for a year — all activities that required nearly 300-500 extra calories a day. So since the summer of 2009, I was always starving. Now, for the first time in two years, I’m not at a heightened calorie requirement so my appetite, comparatively, is very low. The fiber fills me up and I eat Greek yogurt which is high in protein and keeps me going until lunch. I should also mention that I work at desk all day long. I’m also somewhat slanted by a recent NYT article that said contrary to popular opinion, research shows that eating breakfast does not cause you to eat less during the day — whatever you eat for breakfast is just added calories on top of what you’d normally eat.
Supra
I’ve never found this to be true for myself. I don’t eat more when I don’t eat breakfast or eat a small breakfast. In fact, I tend to be hungrier all day after eating breakfast. I’d be interested to read that article.
KOB
Supra:
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/01/health/research/01diet.html
In-House Europe
Ha! I am in the exact same situation KOB! I ran a marathon in Spring 2009, then got preggo in Fall 2009 and just stopped breastfeeding a few months ago…so for the first time since Summer 08 (when I started marathon training) I am not constantly starving!!
Lyssa
Thanks for all of the suggestions. For some reason, eggs early in the morning tend to gross me out a little bit- too squishy or something (I’ll happily eat them on a sleep-late Saturday). But, this morning I scrambled 4 egg whites* with some whole milk, avocado, tomatoes, and pepper jack, and was surprised at how good and not gross it was. Now I’ve just got to figure out how to motivate myself to fix that every morning (and make sure that I have tomato and avo on hand). And how to make sure that I don’t suddenly get sick of it. I still was hungry around 11, but had a banana and was pretty happy.
* I cook a lot, and make a lot of things that require just egg yolks (ice cream, creme brulee), and, since I hate to throw anything away ever, I have tons of egg whites in the freezer in hopes of finding a use. (They freeze very well in ice cube trays, BTW). So I’m not wasting the yolks here, and trying to make sure that there’s some butter and cheese for fat.
PollyD
A more substantial breakfast doesn’t necessarily have to mean eggs or oatmeal (not that those are bad choices). How about some turkey breast and a multi-grain roll with a bit of butter? Some cheese and nuts? High protein cereal like the Kashi line?
My favorite breakfasts were the “continental” breakfasts I had in Prague and Vienna, where they had really good bread (and not all sweet stuff), cheese, and deli-style meat. It made for a nice substantial breakfast.
Although I guess it’s possible to eat way too much good bread and meat at breakfast and de-rail the whole plan!
mbs
I find that if I eat a little protein and high-fiber carbs for breakfast, I’m usually not hungry until lunch. I have a boiled egg and 1/2 cup cooked oatmeal (that’s 1/4 cup dry) with 1/4 cup blueberries, 1 tsp coconut oil and cinnamon mixed in, plus a latte made with 1 cup 1% milk. It’s only 311 calories but very filling. Before, I was eating a larger bowl of oatmeal, but no egg, and was alway starving by 10. YMMV.
Frump
I’ve never understood how this type of eating can keep anybody full. Not that long ago, I was living overseas and due to the availability of food/my schedule, I was probably consuming about 1200 calories a day or less for a good 6-8 months. I felt awful and tired, and at one point I started feeling so randomly ill/off that I even visted the doctor about it. I guess different people are different and have different bodily needs, but when I look at my own needs, I cannot comprehend eating only a Fiber One bar and a small yogurt carton for the entire morning and feeling satisfied (and honestly I am just not that full after a piece of fruit). I am not sure how some people eat that way.
I think I’ve resigned myself to just having to keep that extra few pounds because I’m just not willing to eat that little to be a few pounds lighter.
Jas
That sounds about right. The only time I’ve been able to have a steady weight loss of 1 lb every week or so, I had to keep my caloric intake between 1200 and 1400, and I’m taller than average and a bit chubby. It IS a small amount, though, and it wasn’t easy physically and was surprisingly hard psychologically.
That’s why I question the benefits of a calorie restricted diet, but that’s another topic.
Em
I think that that is actually precisely the topic!
Em
People are drastically different. Some people do fine on 1200 calories a day. Other people will feel faint and dizzy on 1200 calories other day. Still other people will be grumpy and unable to think about anything other than how hungry they are, no matter what tricks they use to pretend they’re full (if you are in this group you can eat as many veggies and drink as much water as you want, but your body will know it’s not getting the overall sustenance and energy it needs). If you think about how you’ve reacted to changes in diet in the past and about what you eat when you feel best, you can probably figure out what group you’re in.
Whatever you do, don’t read comments by people saying they eat 1200 calories a day and are fine and assume you are (a) lacking in willpower or (b) fooling yourself if it doesn’t work out great for you. The fact is, bodies are different and there’s no reason that the diet that works for you is going to work for somebody else.
Anyway, my guess is that, if you’re asking the question, you’re probably with the majority of the human race and need more food than that. So personally, I wouldn’t try it. The risk of slowing down your metabolism and fucking up your psyche is too high.
Ru
Didn’t you recently start a new job? It could be your body adjusting to your new lifestyle. More than the weight, have you noticed whether your clothes are fitting you differently?
I’ve noticed that when I go through a major life change (new environment, etc), my meals stay more or less the same but the snacking is the real culprit – it’s so easy to grab a bag of chips or a candy bar or a latte. As you start tracking your food, look up calorie contents *before* you eat – you’ll use your 1200 calories more wisely and find that you may actually wind up with a lot more food than you thought.
Lyssa
That’s probably a lot of it. The new job came with a move, too, (which WILL NOT END), which is probably the main problem- so much harder to eat well when your kitchen is half-packed.
Nonny
Sorry to ask, but – how old are you? Based on your previous posts I think you are in your late 20s – is that right? I am only asking because a lot of people experience a slight change in body shape when they are in their late 20s/early 30s, which is just a normal part of womanhood. I know I went through it and it totally freaked me out at the time. But I never became overweight – I just had to adapt to a slightly different body shape – and yes, I had to buy some new clothes.
Sorry if I am wrong and completely off-base…just trying to be helpful, but I do get people mixed up all the time. :-)
As for your question about 1200 calories – I am no nutritionist but that just doesn’t seem sustainable to me. I would go stir crazy if I had to restrict myself in that way. Sure you cannot take up some form of exercise – yoga or dancing or something fun that does not feel like “exercise”?
Lyssa
You’re right about the age thing- I’m 31, and I’ve definitely noticed a few changes over the last couple of years. I guess I might have to give in to them eventually, but I’d like to put it off for a while at least.
I’m trying to get in some exercise, I just can’t really do it every day. When there’s a choice between sitting on the couch with my hubby and working out, well, you can guess what wins. (It’s easier when he’s working or something, but we’ve just recently moved to being completely on the same schedule.)
Argie
So, get up and go on a walk together – you get your exercise and together time. Even just 30 minutes of walking is better than nothing.
A
Hey – I gained 5 pounds at 31 without changing anything in my lifestyle. I eat healthy and exercise and certainly don’t want to gain anymore weight, but I’ve accepted this a just a natural, unavoidable change. I’ve had to buy a lot of new clothes but I figure that they’ll last for the next long stretch of time. That might be way better then a 1200 calorie diet.
Nonny
This is pretty much the attitude I took! I regretted the extra inch or two on my waist and hips but in the long run, I’d rather be happy than hungry.
Betty White
Haha, I like this: “I’d rather be happy than hungry.” Sometimes it’s just about attitude adjustment. But good luck either way!
Eponine
This. I “grew” hips around age 28. I saw a picture of myself and was like – oh my God, is that me? I look like a woman!
SF Bay Associate
Me too, Eponine. I am not really heavier than I was at age 25, but I am definitely wider, thanks to several extra inches of hips around age 28. Even if I lost a couple of pounds, my hip bones are not going anywhere. Part of the reason I’ve given up on pants.
Eponine
I actually was a lot thinner at 28 than I had been 5 or so years before (I lost quite a bit of weight when I was 26 or 27), so the hips were a big surprise! I remember measuring myself and realizing that for the first time ever my hips were slightly wider than my shoulders. And yes, I gave up on pants around that time too :).
Em
People are drastically different. Some people do fine on 1200 calories a day. Other people will feel faint and dizzy on 1200 calories other day. Still other people will be grumpy and unable to think about anything other than how hungry they are, no matter what tricks they use to pretend they’re full (if you are in this group you can eat as many veggies and drink as much water as you want, but your body will know it’s not getting the overall sustenance and energy it needs). If you think about how you’ve reacted to changes in diet in the past and about what you eat when you feel best, you can probably figure out what group you’re in.
Whatever you do, don’t read comments by people saying they eat 1200 calories a day and are fine and assume you are (a) lacking in willpower or (b) fooling yourself if it doesn’t work out great for you. The fact is, bodies are different and there’s no reason that the diet that works for you is going to work for somebody else.
Anyway, my guess is that, if you’re asking the question, you’re probably with the majority of the human race and need more food than that. So personally, I wouldn’t try it. The risk of slowing down your metabolism and messing up your psyche is too high.
anon
That’s normal. I’m 5’7″ and a few years ago had my metabolism measured. I can only eat 1400 calories per day to maintain weight if I don’t workout.
Betty White
I think that sounds VERY low. Esp if you’re only trying to lose three or four pounds–just seems like it’s not worth it.
Legally Brunette
Hi Lyssa, I use myfitnesspal and was told to eat 1200 calories a day as well. Once I realized that was completely unrealistic for me, I went in and switched it to 1500 calories, and that’s what I try to stick to. If you try exercising most days and burn 200-300 calories each time, you’ll still be consuming 1200 calories which will help you lose weight. For me, eating only 1200 calories felt like absolute deprivation and I couldn’t stick with it without driving myself crazy.
I recently lost 3-4 pounds that I have been trying to lose over the last few months. Two things helped me: 1) I started jump roping at the gym, which pretty much burned away a lot of belly/hip fat and 2) I started eating eggs for breakfast, which fills me up. I eat 2 eggs with a reasonable amount of butter and I find that is enough to take me through 11 am, when I have a greek yogurt.
Good luck!
viclawstudent
There are a lot of BMR calculators on the Internet (Basal Metabolic Rate) which allow you to input your weight, height, age and everyday activity level and give you the number of calories that you should eat to maintain your weight. When I decided to try calorie counting (with a program that just counts, as opposed to recommending a count), I did one, then subtracted 200 calories from the number it gave me to come up with my daily intake. You might want to try a couple of the calculators and see if you get different responses than on your program.
I also think that getting on a ‘drastic’ diet (if 1200 seems drastic to you when you try it, say – you’re starving, you can’t sleep because your stomach feels so empty, you feel dizzy a lot, etc) isn’t a sustainable approach, as suggested by some above. Better to take things a little more slowly and not play havoc with your natural system.
Barrister in the Bayou
Has anyone here used a mini-trampoline for exercise/general health benefits? If so which one did you get? What kinds of results did you see? How much did you pay for it? I’m interested in getting one, but I’m not sure just yet…
AG
Zaphod Beeblebrox! I love that!
Digby
Me, too – I’ve been thinking about re-reading the Hitchhiker’s books, and I think this just pushed me over the edge!
AG
You should! After I read this post, I dug out my old copies and started reading them again. I forgot how good they are.
Kat
I met Douglas Adams, ever so briefly, before his untimely death — I’m still really proud of that fact. :)
Outdoor girl
(regular poster, but extra anon here…)
Has anyone dealt with a new medical condition which restricted their leisure time activities, but which they did not want to discuss with friends? How did you handle declining invitations, without looking disinterested or rude?
I’m newly pregnant, and living in a mountain town where everyone expects to be biking/ hiking/ rockclimbing all the time. Until recently, I was completely down with this game plan. Unfortunately, my doc says NO EXERCISE during the first trimester, because I live at elevation and just walking around can raise my heartrate. I’ve been making excuses for not joining my friends – some of whom I’ve invited up from the big city – but “tired,” “busy,” and “just not feeling it today” are getting old, plus I fear it seems that I don’t want to hang out with my friends. Because of the risk of miscarriage, I don’t want to announce my pregnancy until month 4 or even 5, if possible. What would you do?
meg
keep begging off… they’ll forgive you when they find out why. Maybe suggest alternative things you can do – meet up for coffee or at a bookstore, go to a play, that sort of thing.
Alternatively, you could white lie on some reason you can’t be as active – maybe a sprained ankle or you have mono or a sinus infection? I’m also in my first trimester and generally hate lying, but have found a few well-placed white lies can make things easier and elimintate questions I don’t want to answer.
Outdoor girl
ah, perfect! “I sprained my ankle on a hike early in the season…. so bummed to be laid up for the rest of the season. Sorry, I can’t join your expedition.”
lawtalkinggirl
I haven’t dealt with this personally, but a good friend of mine is 5 months along and is starting to chafe at not being able to do strenuous outdoor activities like mountain biking and climbing, on doctor’s orders. Also she loves her beer and seeing the rest of us imbibing is really hard.
I do not know how you can decline invites without seeming rude, or without people guessing the truth, or without outright lying. Could you blame your lack of interest on allergies or asthma or some similar unspecified chronic illness? It has been a bad year for pollen around here and often I don’t feel like being outside with the trees and grass. On the other hand, would it really be so bad if your close friends knew what was going on?
Outdoor girl
I did tell one close friend who was staying with us for the weekend. I just couldn’t figure out any other way to down grade our weekend plans from hotsprings hopping, bouldering and hiking, to visiting a thrift shop and drinking tea.
I’m really not up for telling others at this point, though. I’m 40+, and the miscarriage odds are about even. If that happens, I don’t want to be dealing with others’ dashed expectations and disappointment along with my (& husband’s) own.
lawtalkinggirl
It’s fantastic that you are over 40 and pregnant. Good luck!!!
eaopm3
I would tell a small white lie. Something about your doctor telling you to take it easy for a different (and not too worrisome to your friends) reason. That way, you might be able to spend time with them in a different setting, while still not putting yourself at risk.
TCFKAG
I would say that a “twisted knee” or “mild stress fracture” is just what the doctor ordered in this situation.
lawtalkinggirl
A strained MCL kept me off my feet for about 6 weeks… I only limped for 2 weeks. That could buy you almost 2 months.
Outdoor girl
Oooh, “stress fracture,” I love it! No visible evidence, but those things hurt like crazy, and take forever to heal.
TCFKAG
Its true. So very very sadly true. :-P
Diana Barry
Why does your doc say that you can’t exercise? Do you have some other condition that makes exercise during pregnancy especially hazardous? If not, that recommendation is outdated and unnecessary. Feel free to keep up with your normal routine and modify as necessary to suit how your body feels. I lifted weights, did cardio and power yoga throughout my pregnancies, taking additional rest and lessening the weights I lifted as I progressed.
CC
Yeah.. I would not recommend ignoring your doctor because an anonymous person on the internet says so…. true or not.
NYC
Right, of course. I’m guessing there is some other reason why the MD said no exercise. I just don’t want all pregnant women in mountain towns to think they should be sitting on the couch the first three months!
bhtsmama
OP shouldn’t ignore her doc, but that is extremely conservative advice in a normal, healthy pregnancy! Caveat – I don’t live at elevation, I live in NYC, but I worked with a trainer all throughout my first pregnancy, and even for #2 (work in progress, via IVF) my RE cleared me for exercise after they saw a heartbeat (6wks). There are some complications for which MDs will advise no exercise (risk of premature labor, placenta previa, BP issues) but regular exercise during pregnancy, so long as HR is monitored, helps keep weight gain in check and can better prepare your body for labor.
NYC
Ditto. That seems like weird advice, since every single resource I have read has said that you should exercise as frequently as possible while preggo! But keep it moderate level of intensity. I had two doctors say I should keep my heartrate below 140 and when I asked if that was really necessary, they both said no. They both said that I should just not overdo it and be careful to not overheat. I would think hiking or at the very least walking would be fine. Just take a break if you feel really out of breath or hot or are sweating a lot.
Outdoor girl
yeah, yeah, I’m totally with you all. For the first month, I was hiking, biking, going to yoga, and considering rockclimbing. Then came several days of cramping and spotting. Not a good sign. Doc told me to slow the heck down, and put my feet up. Given that I’m 40+, and this is probably my only chance at pregnancy, and I don’t want to over do it. I live at 8000 feet, a realm where pregnant women are normally discouraged. (My hometown is at sea level; we’re here for the summer). I am taking slow walks around town, but until I get the all clear from the ultrasound/ first prenatal appt., I am grounded.
NYC
Makes total sense. Good luck! I will be thinking positive thoughts for you. Also, good call on not telling anyone. I told my family at 6 weeks and my mother promptly told all of her co-workers and the women at pilates, despite my daily pleas not to tell anyone. Oy.
40+momt00
While I would generally agree with the other posters about the value of exercise, I think that your ob is making the right call if you’re spotting and cramping. Take it easy. A month or so isn’t that much time out of in your life to be grounded in the grand scheme of things.
Outdoor girl
This discussion prompted me to do a little more research, and I found this:
“Immediate discontinuation of exercise is recommended if the mother experiences any of the following symptoms: shortness of breath, dizziness, nausea, weakness, pain, generalized edema, uterine contraction, vaginal bleeding, fluid leakage, or diminished fetal activity.”
http://www.tobeyleung.com/exercise-during-pregnancy-the-risks-and-benefits/
cbackson
Have you lived at elevation for a while? Because if you have, then you should be acclimated. In addition, there’s fairly extensive evidence that a person who is already fit can continue with normal exercise during pregnancy until she begins to feel like cutting back. Here’s a (fairly dry, but interesting) book on the subject: http://www.amazon.com/Exercising-Through-Pregnancy-James-Clapp/dp/1886039593 (note that this is more of a review of the scholarly literature than a how-to guide).
Outdoor girl
Awesome. Thanks for the reco. I’ve ordered it.
I’ve been at elevation – 8000 – for about a month (most of the time that I’ve been pregnant). I’m getting acclimated, but it is noticeably harder this time around.
I think the doc’s main concern is the elevation, more than moderate activity. I’ll look forward to reading more in the book, and, perhaps, being able to exercise more when I’m back at sea level.
Outdoor girl
Actually, *all* of the time I’ve been pregnant…
Inva
Wow, I am in almost exactly the same situation! Although I don’t live in a mountain town (sadly), most of my activities with friends involve climbing, mountain biking, or trail running. And they usually involve beer, too! I am very newly pregnant (I found out four days ago). At my pre-conception appointment my doctor told me that I could generally maintain my fitness routine before and during early pregnancy. After doing a bunch of research myself (medical studies, not random anecdotes), I have concluded that doctors generally agree that it’s ok to maintain your current activity level, while avoiding activities that could result in severe bodily impacts, very high heart rate, or overheating. So far, I’ve been sticking with modified versions of my normal activities. Mountain bike rides are on very easy trails. I take a break to catch my breath after a hill and I walk any technical spots. No change to climbing so far (just top-rope in the gym for me). I have a call in to my doctor – I definitely don’t want to overdo it. I don’t live at high altitude, so that may make a difference. I haven’t found a good way not to look suspicious when refusing beer, though. :) Congrats, and good luck!
Outdoor girl
Congrats, Inva! So exciting! And so nice to have this anonymous board to share news we can’t share elsewhere. We need a Secretly Pregnant Ladies Expedition Club!
Irish
Flagyl is the perfect excuse for no beer. It is an antibiotic people get for all kinds of reason, including intestinal problems but you can’t have so much as a sip of booze or you will yak. Be advised though, I learned after telling lots of people I was on the drug that it is also commonly rx’d for STD’s so you might end up having some awkward convos with people who think they found someone going through the same itch and burn as them :)
Irish
PS, I had a stress fracture in my big toe after one 8 mile hike and was limping for TWO MONTHS. Totally believable injury.
Outdoor girl
So great – not that you were injured!, but as an excuse…
I’ve just declined to climb a peak weekend-after-next b/c of an unspecified ‘stress fracture’ and will certainly use that to beg off a 15 mile hike being planned for next weekend.
As for the beer, I’m doing my second ‘yogic cleanse’ of the year: no alcohol, refined sugar, wheat, meat, coffee; concentrating on whole foods. I did one in the winter – I truly believe that is part of how I was able to get pregnant at this age – so it will believeable to be doing it again (and good for the pregnancy). The real test, though, will be at a mini-family reunion when everyone is having a drink…
In-House Europe
I climbed Mt. Fuji at 6 weeks pregnant. I knew going in that I might have problems but we camped out overnight halfway up to acclimate and I was fine. Beer on the other hand…that is tough. :)
Curious
Totally unrelated threadjack –
This is my first year clerking for a firm. We, the clerks, were looking through a file and found the fee agreement btwn our firm and the client. The memo outlined that:
the founding partner is $300/hr
the 2006 associate who supervises us is $200/hr
clerks are $50/hr
We’re paid just $10/hr, though. Is it common for a firm to skim $40/hr off the top? Not complaining, thankful to have a paid position at all, just deadly curious. Does the 2006 associate get all of his $200 or does the firm take some of that as well?
lawtalkinggirl
The associate does not get all of $200 per hour. That was my billing rate in private practice. My salary and benefits probably totaled $115K, and assuming (hah!) I billed 1,600 hours per year, I grossed $320K for the firm, leaving $205K for overhead and profit.
Em
I think the normal rubric is that one third goes to salary; one third goes to overhead, and one third goes to the firm’s profits. So the ratio is off for you clerks but, also, a lot of your hours are probably getting written off and not billed to clients. The associate definitely does not get all of that $200.
Peach
Does every hour you get paid for get billed to the client (e.g., if you put in an 8 hour day, is that 100% billable client work)? If not, it’s a smaller percentage being “skimmed.”
However, I will say that $10/hr is absurd for nearly any professional-type job. I made $16/hr babysitting as a freshman in college. Unless there is a very clear path you’ve established for yourself where this job is a key stepping stone to something else, I think you need to figure out how to get yourself a raise or a new job – ASAP.
Another Sarah
From what I can tell, in some places it’s the going rate for a summer law clerk. Law firm clerk-dom is a key stepping stone to something much more lucrative, so in the OP’s case she’ll probably make up the pay differential very quickly upon graduating and being licensed.
Peach
If it’s a summer job (which it may be), that’s one thing, though that wasn’t my read based on “this is my first year clerking for a firm.”
Curious
Peach, the others got it correct – I’m a 1L intern.
And yes, $10/hr is insultingly low, esp since I’m an older student who gave up an $80k salary for law school and I last earned $10/hr at the mall in the ’90s. But I am one of maybe 40 people out of 200 in my class to have a paid summer job – the rest are unpaid or plain unemployed – so I’ll take my $10 and be happy about it.
anon-oh-no
this is a joke, right?
Another Sarah
No, the associates don’t get their full rates. When I worked for an AG’s office as a clerk, I was “billed” for restitution at $100/hr, but I was actually paid $17.50. The rest, as above, went into overhead and costs. I just always figured the discrepancy was to not outwardly bill the client for things like the client’s pro rata share of office space rent, utilities, pens, post-its, copy toner, and the cleaning crew.
CC
I don’t think the skimming part is awful, but my sister makes an 11/hour at her part time job at the bakery… 10/hr seems really low.
Lyssa
I get (in theory- this is a gross over simplification of my complex plan) 40% of my take (and note that that’s based on what actually comes in, not billing rate). I realize that you’re getting a lot less than than, percentage wise, but a) they’re probably writing off a lot of what you bill, and b) you’re probably spending a lot of time on non-billable stuff during the time that you’re there.
That said, 10/hour does sound really low, but I think that that’s the new normal, unfortunately. My first summer, 2007, I got the exact same pay as a new associate, based on 77K a year (I live in a low-cost-of living part of the country where that’s a lot of money). It’s all been downhill from there.
Reply to Curious
This is normal. What your clients pay the firm is not what you get paid by the firm. The extra goes into paying taxes, overhead, benefits, and yes, profit. I get paid $28 an hour, but my company charges clients closer to $80 an hour for my work. The proportion of what I’m getting paid is higher because I’m part-time hourly with no benefits (I cost the company less money).
Oh, and generally (from what I understand) folk’s hourly charge rates to clients is not a secret, but salary/hourly wage generally isn’t common knowledge. It’s common when deciding who will work on projects to talk about who is “more expensive” and who is “less expensive” and how to divvy up the hours between each.
PollyD
Not sure how it is in law, but a friend of mine bills approximately 3X her hourly rate for freelance work and when I worked as a contractor, I was billed at approximately 3X my hourly rate (or what it would be if you divided salary by hours), to cover benefits like health insurance, vacation and sick time, 401K or other retirement plans, and, in the case of my contracting company, profit. I would say it’s not surprising at all to be billed at much more than your perceived hourly rate. I don’t know how it works with partners and associates in law firms, though.
Eponine
You get paid that $10/hour regardless of whether the firm is able to bill the client for your work. And associates/partners don’t get paid by the hour.
Curious
Thanks, everyone. Had no idea how legal billing worked. See my reply in the thread regarding the low wage.
Bell's Palsy?
I was diagnosed with this yesterday — anyone out there want to share their experiences? I think this is what Houda had a few months ago–I can’t find the thread where we talked about it in the comments. Thanks.
Silicon Valley
https://corporette.com/2011/04/15/weekend-open-thread-81/ Houda’s comment starts at #25.
Bells Palsy just struck a colleague of mine, too. J, if this is you, I’m thinking of you and worried about you. Come talk with me. Hugs, D.
TCFKAG
That would be weird. But very funny also.
Bell's Palsy?
Hi D — No, I’m not J. Just thought I would let you know, so you didn’t have to wonder. :)
Mel
I had this twice in law school. I’m so sorry you are going through this. It took about 2 weeks each time to get back to normal for me, which is on the short side from what I hear. Hopefully you were prescribed anti-inflammatory meds (i.e. steroids) and anti-viral meds and hopefully they also scanned your brain to make sure it is not being caused by any tumors (rare, but possible).
I might also recommend googling foods/diets that are anti-inflammatory. It may not help but won’t hurt. Good luck – I hope you are back to normal soon.
I
I had it in high school from a viral infection of my facial nerve. I was given some sort of meds (unfortunately I don’t remember what), and I got acupuncture for it. I really believe it helped to speed up the recovery time by helping to stimulate the nerve. It might be worth checking out an acupunturist – but this will probably require some very thorough research (I wouldn’t want just anybody sticking needles in my face). Good luck. I hope you recover quickly.
Bell's Palsy?
thanks everyone, and thanks @Silicon Valley for the cite.
I’m getting the MRI tomorrow to rule out a stroke (OMG, just totally crazy) and I’m on prednisone. I have an acupuncturist who I trust, so he’s on the list too.
Thanks again to everyone who responded.
anon for this
threadjack–
I’m a law firm associate and expect to be getting a performance review this week. Due to some complicated factors regarding the group I’m in, workflow, etc, I suspect I may be told it’s time to look for something else.
Does anyone have an idea about how long a NY big firm generally gives after conveying this information? Any advice for things I should or shouldn’t talk about during my review? Thanks so much!
Peach
Sorry this may be happening! 90 days is what I heard from two people I know who went through this a couple years ago at NYC big firms.
No specific advice on what you should talk about during the review.
Anonylawyer
I’ve never been through it myself, but I’ve heard that it is someonwere between 3 and 6 months. They may pay for outplacement counseling – at least they did before the economy crapped out – but I don’t know if firms still do that.
L
Usually 3 months, I think, and they should provide outplacement counseling, etc.
I would just keep quiet during your review – if it is negative and/or if you are being asked to leave, there’s nothing you can do about it anyway. If you are a member of a protected class, consider bringing your phone and recording the review, if you are able to. (I was canned while pregnant and got a settlement, which might have been easier to get or make larger if I had had a recording of the terrible comments that were made during the ‘review’.)
anon for this
thank you all– this is helpful, and I already feel less alone in this as I sit in my office waiting for a review….
still welcoming more feedback!
ST
Double check it’s legal before recording anyone without their knowledge. It varies by state, but I don’t know the rule in NY.
Doc review
I will be starting my very first document review project tomorrow. I’ve been told it is a flat rate and that I will be working 50-60 hours per week, but have not been told yet what the expected length of the project is.
I’ve never done document review before and I’m not entirely sure what to expect. Does anyone have any advice?
TCFKAG
Expect to sit for long periods of time looking at documents…really not a whole lot more than that.
Tips — pay attention to the initial trainings, try to get a firm (but fairly broad-stroked) idea of what the review criteria are. Also try to get a sense of how inclusive they want to be…some doc reviews, they just want you to basically make everything responsive. Others they want you to be very strict. They may not say which one it is explicitly in the training, but they will telegraph it with how they describe the project.
Other tips on how to deal with long hours staring at a computer screen; take frequent, short breaks. Stretch. Change positions. Bring healthy snacks for mindless munching (which you will almost certainly do).
Good luck. I may be the only person in the world who likes doc review, but I find reading other people’s e-mail kind of fun. :-P
Another Sarah
It’s tedious at first, but once you get into a groove it’ll fly by. That doesn’t mean the clock will move quickly, just that your volume will increase.
It is exactly what it says it is – you’ll be reviewing documents, combing through individual pieces of paper or files and looking for evidence of whatever the lawsuit is based on. They’ll have some system of “flagging” the document so the attorneys can look at it later and see if they want to use it.
Eponine
Be prepared that the project may end unexpectedly (and your paycheck with it), so don’t withdraw from other staffing companies entirely.
Be prepared to sit for long hours in a windowless room staring at a computer screen, and to have to clock in and out for bathroom and meal breaks. Take care of your health and try to get an ergonomic setup and occasional sunlight :).
Bonnie
Load up an IPod with music or books on tape.
anonbargirl
Thanks to everyone who made me feel better about the bar- today is going much.better.
I listened to some lectures yesterday and learned an easier subject since I could do that without much effort.
The day did end pretty crappy with a bloody nose from an elbow during a basketball game I told myself to go to because I thought exercise would make me feel better (apparently not). I chalked it up to “today is clearly not my day”. Here’s to hoping the rest of the days leading up to the bar ARE my days!
Another Sarah
Yay! I also had a bit of a nervous breakdown yesterday and took the afternoon/evening off, and today is also going much.better. We can do it!! :-D
Vegas tips?
Hey! Everyone is so helpful I thought I’d try for some insight into Vegas. I’m looking for things to do that aren’t gambling (already going to a show, hanging out by the pool) and places to eat that are vegetarian friendly and delicious?
Any help is greatly appreciated!
Supra
Shopping? There’s tons of great stores of all price levels. Honestly, other than shopping, the pool, eating and drinking, I don’t know what else there is to do.
LinLondon
May I vent? Thank you.
I just received an email from a reference librarian at a very large international law firm and it says -with no salutation or closing- “We need to find out (piece of information that L can tell us). We are unable to locate it.” I am dying to reply with “That’s nice.” Argh, manners people!
Eponine
I would totally reply with “OK – what do you want me to do about it?”
LinLondon
I’m toying with the idea, to be honest. At least people usually have the decency to address the email to me or make an actual request!
anon
How about an “Okay. Good to know, thanks.” Heh. Perhaps they will reconsider their tone.
markymark
I get emails like this once and awhile. I just ignore them. I figure if the person really wants to hear from me, s/he will rewrite a more appropriate correspondence.