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Our daily TPS reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices.
Sales of note for 9.30.24
- Nordstrom – Beauty deals through September
- Ann Taylor – Extra 30% off sale
- Banana Republic Factory – 50% off everything + extra 20% off
- Boden – 15% off new styles
- Eloquii – Extra 50% off sale
- J.Crew – 50% off select styles
- J.Crew Factory – Up to 60% off everything + 50% off sale with code
- Lo & Sons – Warehouse sale, up to 70% off
- M.M.LaFleur – Save 25% sitewide
- Neiman Marcus – Friends & Family 25% off
- Rag & Bone – Friends & Family 25% off sitewide
- Spanx – Lots of workwear on sale, some up to 70% off
- Talbots – Fall Cyber Monday sale, 40% off sitewide and $5 shipping
- Target – Car-seat trade-in event through 9/28 — bring in an old car seat to get a 20% discount on other baby/toddler stuff.
- White House Black Market – 40% off select styles
And some of our latest threadjacks here at Corporette (reader questions and commentary) — see more here!
Some of our latest threadjacks include:
- What to say to friends and family who threaten to not vote?
- What boots do you expect to wear this fall and winter?
- What beauty treatments do you do on a regular basis to look polished?
- Can I skip the annual family event my workplace holds, even if I'm a manager?
- What small steps can I take today to get myself a little more “together” and not feel so frazzled all of the time?
- The oldest daughter is America's social safety net — change my mind…
- What have you lost your taste for as you've aged?
- Tell me about your favorite adventure travels…
Red
Is it just me or can some people wear red blazers and some people cannot? I thought I was the former and I had one in my closet forever, but every time I put it on I looked like a door-to-door saleslady for cosmetics.
anon
can you wear red in general? i think a red blazer is hard for most to pull off, but the fact that this is more casual/fitted makes it a little easier to wear without channeling a strange retail sales vibe.
Red
Can wear red blouses, but the red blazer was too much.
houda
I have an outfity that I like: Red cardigan – Navy embellished AT LOFT sleeveless top and Beige pants.
To me this is a no brainer outfit, maybe try to do a cardigan and once you are more comfy, you can do the big leap and wear a blazer in that color?
Bonnie
A lot of it has to do with the shade of red. Bright in your face orange reds are hard to pull off. Perhaps try a blue based red.
anon-oh-no
You have to make the rest of your outfit look modern and refined, otherwise you’re right, you can come off looking like a “working girl” remnent.
I have one I wear often with a pair of wider leg black or tan slacks, a white or cream shirt untucked but fitted (make sure it is business casual appopriate) and hangs longer than the blazer, and a long strand of pearls (its 3 strands actually). I wear 3-4 in heals in nude or black and make sure my slacks hit just above the floor (so as not to drag).
anon too
I’m not sure the styling suggestion helps. It probably looks great on you, but I suspect this could go wrong on a lot of people. Making the shirt hang out of the blazer and pairing it with long pearls seems like it could easily take a bad turn for the 80s.
Emma
Absolutely beautiful. Don’t know if I could pull it off, but I love it. Great pick.
anon
agree, it’s very nice. whattup with the name, though? A fiance blazer? What fiance is going to wear a red blazer? or is this meant to be a more mature, committed version of a boyfriend blazer, whatever that is?
Noreen
I agree. Why should we be labelled when the men are not? I think there should NOT be this kind of labelling. If my boyfriend started wearing red blazers, I would be embarassed.
Kanye East
It’s bad enough women’s titles in this day and age still reflect their marital status; I don’t need that crap in my clothing labels as well.
This.
This! This with a shining diamond solitaire on it’s finger. This this this this this.
Bunkster
Yeah. It’s not as though they have girlfriend blazers or girlfriend jeans. Of course, it would totally freak me out if my boyfriend could fit into my jeans.
kz
I call skinny jeans on boys girlfriend jeans. But I’m pretty sure that’s just me.
Always a NYer
*Like*
Oneanon
Bwahahahaha this is awesome. *Like* indeed. Skinny jeans on boys = terrible.
Unsub
Notice how we all associate skinny jeans with ‘boys’? speaks a book, don’t you think?
anon
What’s that beer commercial with the guy in skinny jeans?
CW
Agreed. I love the shape, but not sure the red would work for me. Wish it came in other colors!
D
Ooh I love this! But I find that I get much less wear out of brightly colored items like this. I had a red blazer for a while but only wore it about once a month during fall/winter, so the cost per wear ended up being pretty high even though I got it on sale. But this is a gorgeous piece!
Threadjack — does anyone have advice for how to ask a busy and important person (law partner, co-chair of a practice group at a big firm) for a few minutes of their time for an informational interview-type meeting? This is not an attempt at getting a job, I really just want to ask this person a few questions about how to break into this area of practice and get their advice about how to succeed in this area. I clerked for the same judge as this person and talked to the person once at an event, so it wouldn’t be entirely out of the blue. Should I ask to meet for coffee? Or is that too much of a burden? I would prefer to meet in person, however brief, so that the person can connect a name to a face, but would be open to asking for a phone conversation only if the hivemind thinks that is better. Any and all advice is welcome!
Lawra
I’m about to start my third year of law school. I’ve been doing a lot of networking in my city this summer. My approach is to contact alums of either my undergrad or my law school that are in my city. I send them a simple email that says something along the lines that I found they are an alum of my school and I am really interested in the market and would love to speak with them briefly about their career path and the job market. People love talking to other people, particularly about themselves. So, if you have some kind of hook, like going to the same school or a practice area you are particularly interested in, that is one way to phrase the request. I usually say I would like to speak with them, and often they will propose lunch or coffee or just a time that I can call them. Also, once you meet with people, if it goes well you can ask them to refer you to others at other firms/organization that they may know. That gives you another hook to use when you email someone because you can say so and so referred me to you for advice about such and such. It actually is a fun process if you get into it, and I have had a very favorable response when I’ve reached out.
Hope that helps!
anonymous
I’m a partner in a big firm, although not co-chair of a practice group, and what I would want is an email from you reminding me of who you are and asking for a few minutes to talk about breaking into the practice area, making clear that you are not looking for a job. You should suggest alternatives so that s/he can decide what’s most convenient- that you’d be happy to meet for lunch or coffee or to go to his/her office. (I would likely choose for you to come to my office.) If you could get the judge to suggest that you talk to this person that would be even better, so that the email has in its very early lines the fact that Judge X suggested you talk to him/her. Good luck.
Eponine
This. And I also want to add that, although I’m not at a private firm, as a fairly senior lawyer I am always happy to meet with students and junior attorneys so long as they are sincere and well-prepared to enter my field.
Annie
I consistently endeavor to meet or teleconference with every law student that contacts me about my area of practice. I think people are generally willing to help someone new to the field out. I am junior so it may be different for a senior partner, but I see the partners at my firm doing the same thing.
SF Bay Associate
Maybe you could offer to bring the coffee to the partner in his/her office. My superbusy partners might pause at even going across the street to meet for coffee, but would probably be more willing to talk to someone if the coffee and person came to THEM. Then the only time they would lose is the actual conversation – no “travel time” to the shop. They are also on the phone all the time, so I don’t know how keen they’d be to set up a call. Maybe anchor at meeting at the closest-possible coffee shop, and then when the partner hesitates, offer to bring the coffee to them. Who could refuse such a generous offer?
anon
You’ve answered a lot of your questions yourself. Script a brief, polite email that 1) reminds them how you met, 2) the fact that you (as you say) want to ask advice about how to succeed/break into their area, and 3) ask if they’d be open to talking with you at some point in the next few (weeks/months). Let them know where you are / how to reach you, and then let them decide if they’re up for coffee or just a call.
If you want to suggest a few specific days/times of the week that are better for you, you can do that also, but you can probably assume that their schedule is less flexible than yours is and you should be prepared to accommodate.
D
These are all great suggestions — thanks, everyone. I like the idea of just requesting to speak to the person and letting him suggest phone/coffee/lunch, etc. And my judge actually did recommend that I speak to this person, a fact that I had forgotten, so I will be sure to include that info.
Can I ask a follow-up question? Should I address this person as “Mr” or just “first name”? There is probably about a 20-year age gap between us, for what it’s worth. This seems like something that was probably covered in NGDGTCO, but I’m still at a loss here.
Thanks again for the advice.
Lawra
I tend to be more formal when I initiate the contact. So I use Mr. or Ms. upfront. If they sign off on the email with their first name, then I am more likely to use that if I have follow-up correspondence with them.
D
This makes sense. Thank you!
anon
I would always go with the full first name (Michael, not Mike), and not “Mr Smith” only because in the standard North American professional context, most people are called by their first names with a few very distinct exceptions that would seem not to apply here.
The other issue with Mr/Mrs usage is that it automatically puts you in a kind of adult/child context, which you don’t want. You’re not necessarily this person’s equal in the workplace but you are both professionals.
But you know your field best. Does anyone call anyone by Mr/Mrs X? This person is not a judge, right?
Eponine
In my area of law (international) it is standard to address people as Mr. or Ms., or by whatever title they have (professor, doctor, etc), until they say otherwise. Most people say otherwise, but not all. I wouldn’t be upset if someone addressed me by my first name in an email, but it wouldn’t be the norm, either.
D
Ah yes — I definitely want to avoid the adult-child dynamic. Given that our previous interaction was fairly informal (and he introduced himself by his first name), perhaps I’ll just use his first name. I appreciate everyone’s thoughts, thanks so much for the help.
Eponine
Mr., but if he signs his email with his first name only, call him by his first name thereafter. If he signs it with his full name, keep addressing him as Mr. until he tells you otherwise.
D
Does it make a difference that I met him once before and he introduced himself by first name? I think generally I would use “Mr.”, but I’m hesitating on this one because I don’t want to come across sounding overly young.
Eponine
@D – yes, that makes a difference – I missed the part in your question that said you’d met him before. Definitely address him the way he introduced himself to you.
Eponine
Oh, and incidentally, I disagree that it’s childish. If someone addresses me as Ms. Eponine, without fail I will address him back as Mr. Lastname. For me, that’s professional respect, not infantalizing.
ADL
I’d also say addressing someone as Mr./Ms. is not necessarily child/adult. I would say it depends on your location. As a southerner, I was taught to always address someone as Mr./Ms. regardless of the situation; I still address my parents’ friends as this unless they say to call them something otherwise.
anon
I agree with all of the advice about to do and have one bit of advice to add about what NOT to do – i’m a jr. big law associate and recently met a 2L at a mock trial competition where i was a judge, she sent me a perfectly polite and appropriate thank you email afterwards, letting me know she did great in the compeitition moving forward, and inquiring more about my practice area which she wants to get into. i suggested that we have lunch sometime to discuss because her questions required lengthy answers. i never heard back from her.
about a month later she sent me a near identical email (seriously, copied and pasted), but this time attaching her resume and asking me if i would forward it onto the appropriate person. funny thing is.
she of course didn’t acknowledge that she had emailed me before and i had suggested we have lunch.
needless to say, she fell off my radar after i received that email. if we had gotten together for lunch and she came off as bright and eager as i thought she would, and she attached her resume to a subsequent email, i probably would have provided her with as much direction as possible going forward.
funny thing is that this is not the first time a law student who has contacted me of her own initiative has left me high and dry- i once had a student from my alma mater contact me to find out more about my experience at a non profit where i had been a legal intern, i wrote her a lengthy response, she wanted to get together for lunch, i agreed it would be a good idea and we set up a date – when i wrote to her to confirm the day before, she told me she was busy and was no longer interested. it makes it difficult to take law students seriously.
MJ
One other amazing piece of advice that I learned in b-school. At the end of a meeting like this, say something along the lines of “Wow–speaking with you has been so helpful. Can you think of one or two other people who could speak with me more about [X subject that came up that interested you].” This perpetuates the networking and also helps open doors that you might not have found strictly through alumni channels. If the meeting has gone well, people are more than happy to say, “Yes, you know, you should speak with [Person 1] and [Person 2].” It works like a charm every time, and totally cuts down on the amound of “cold” networking you have to do. Try it–it’s seriously is super-helpful.
Liz
I usually find waiting until after office hours when the staff has gone is the best time to chat up the higher ups that are really busy during the day. If that doesn’t work you can always shoot an email asking if they can let you know when they have a free minute.
Lawra
As a redhead, I don’t like this shade of red for myself, but love it on others. I wish it came in teal or burnt orange.
Louise
Second the burnt orange. I love that color for fall!
Legal recruiters
Sorry for the early threadjack. I asked this question on yesterday’s post, but thought I might get more responses here.
I’m looking for advice on legal recruiting firms in the San Diego area. I’m currently at a 200+ attorney firm in the Midwest but I’m moving to San Diego in the fall. I would appreciate any recommendations on recruiters that have a good reputation in that area! Also, any advice about the legal market in San Diego, especially as compared to other cities in Southern California. TIA!
SF Bay Associate
I posted and you replied in the other thread, but I’m reposting because I’m curious to hear whether other corporettes agree, or if my impression is wrong.
“From what I understand, the SD legal market is extremely insular, with the exception of the truly national law firms who act the same as they do everywhere. For non-national-biglaw firms, a lot more emphasis is placed on ties to SD, as opposed to impressive resumes, which is unusual for a city legal market. I have a few law school classmate friends from SD, and some who weren’t from there but moved there after graduation. Our well ranked school was not in SD. Even the from-there friends had a hard time getting interviews and offers because the employers (small and medium firms) were heavily biased in favor of from-there people who went to the local law schools (USD/TJ/CW) just like the partners did, despite those schools not being even tier 1. My not-from-there friends had a virtually impossible time and one gave up to come back up here. It is pretty strange market, actually, but a great place to live if you can crack into it!”
ETA: another thing that counts as ties-to-SD is if you or your spouse are military based in SD. In some ways, SD is a very large military town, so SD, and especially the legal market, is very supportive of the troops and very sympathetic to people transfering in.
anon for this
SF Bay Associate– see my post below, but your impressions are spot-on. I went to law school in your part of CA and was only able to break into the market due to my spouse having a job here. The other people I knew from law school who got jobs in SD had grown up here.
I would disagree that national biglaw firms act like they do elsewhere though. I’m at a national firm and all of our hires tend to be known commodities rather than people found through a traditional interview process. My firm could be the exception though.
Two cents
I have “winter” coloring and should be able to wear red, but I just don’t like the color and always feel very “loud” when I have it on. I don’t feel that way about fuchsia, magenta, or other equally bright colors, but something about red turns me off.
anon
i feel the same way about myself, red, other brights, and my winter coloring
Wondering
I don’t have advice for the San Diego area specifically, but having just gone through several legal recruiters on the east coast, I absolutely recommend that you find a recruiter who actually lives and works in San Diego. Several larger recruiting firms have folks who say that that they have contacts in a large geographic area — for example, a recruiter who lives in SF but works in the entire CA area. These types of recruiters are a big mistake, IMHO. There is a HUGE advantage to having a recruiter who actually lives in San Diego because he/she will have tons of more contacts and will have their nose to the ground more than someone outside the area.
I would also suggest that you do your research on various recruiters BEFORE you send your resume to anyone. I did not realize this until it was too late. Once you send your resume to a recruiter, you have basically signed up to have them work on your behalf. I made this mistake and ended up working with a recruiter who was really mediocre.
Finally, in this tough economy, I am little worried that law firms won’t want to fork over the money that the recruiter demands if they hire you. You might consider if you’re better off just applying directly to the law firm. They may be more inclined to interview you if you aren’t affiliated with a legal recruiter. I don’t know how accurate this is, but I have heard this from at least a few folks.
Good luck!
Wondering
I should add that I did end up getting a wonderful law firm job, but it wasn’t through my recruiter. I applied to a firm through a friend of a friend who was at the firm, and she sent my resume to the HR recruiter with a nice cover note that we chatted. I feel like these sorts of personal connections are a better way of getting your foot in the door than through the recruiter, unless the recruiter is extremely well connected.
anon for this
Semi-regular poster but going anon for this so as to not accidentally out myself:
I’m an attorney in San Diego. I’ve been working with recruiters in my search for a job elsewhere in SoCal. I have found Mary Lee Augustine, with Advocate Legal Search, to be very responsive and knowledgable about the market (I’m a litigator in a specialized area of law, if it matters). She’s based in LA but works in San Diego and Orange County as well. I’ve found many Southern California recruiters to be exceptionally flaky (e.g., sending me emails that were meant to go to other people, forgetting where I’ve applied in the past, completely falling off the face of the earth and then posting jobs that are a perfect fit for me on Craigslist, making up jobs, etc.) and she is the exception. She has even told me about jobs where they won’t accept resumes from recruiters and was willing to talk to me about my decision as to whether to accept one of these jobs, and tried to talk me into taking it even though she didn’t stand to get a fee for placing me there. (I turned it down.)
The San Diego market is pretty small (especially on the big firm level) , and everyone knows each other, so I think that for job-searching purposes it is particularly important to have a connection to the area and to know people. For example, my firm didn’t even interview for the last two positions it needed to fill but hired attorneys that the partners knew.
If you have more questions, email me at anonsdlawyer @ gmail DOT com (yes, I made an anonymous email account for this purpose– I clearly have too much free time).
Legal recruiters
Thanks everyone for the helpful advice!
MaggieLizer
I don’t have experience with any recruiters but I have some experience, both personally and through friends, with the San Diego legal market. Firms certainly want you to have some personal connection to San Diego; so many people try to move into town because they want to go to the beach every weekend rather than work. If you’re already moving there, be sure to mention the reasons for your move in your interview. I would also use a local address on your resume if you can.
It has not been my personal experience or the experience of any of my San Diego-based friends that local firms are super biased in favor of the local schools. The lateral market may be different, but as a new graduate, it’s extremely difficult to secure a position in San Diego from USD or CW unless you’re the top one or two person in your class. Classmates from my higher-ranked law school beat out the USD 2Ls and 3Ls for positions almost every time; I got a callback/offer from a San Diego firm over several of my USD friends whose grades were better than mine. The local mid- and biglaw firms also don’t make a very strong showing at USD’s OCI.
You might also consider Orange County firms. It’s a smaller legal market that’s often overlooked in favor of SD or LA, so you may not have as much competition. The commute up the 5 also isn’t terrible if you live in North County (Carlsbad would be good because it’s above the main cluster of traffic and it’s a nice town; some parts of Oceanside have also become nice in recent years, but Carlsbad has the better public schools if that’s a concern).
Former SD JD
Semi-frequent poster here, but different tag for now… I’m a former SD biglaw associate and I agree with most of what’s been said here about the market. I also know, both personally and anecdotally, that even the big national firms typically look for some sort of connection to the area. When I was starting to look, I worked a little bit with the president/founder of Rifkin Consulting (rifkinconsulting dot com). I was very impressed with Diane, and when I decided I wanted to focus on another market across country she connected me with one of her colleagues at another company, who was amazing, so you might consider contacting them. In any event, I think you should “interview” at least a few recruiters and try to find one that you feel good about. My experiences with the two women I worked with were across the board positive, but I have many friends who had quite negative experiences with recruiters, including recruiters submitting their resumes to jobs without clearing it with them first, being non-responsive, and exaggerating the quality of their contacts with firms.
Good luck!
Diana Barry
I really like this, but it is hard to tell the shape of the blazer when the model either has the sleeves rolled up and her hair covering the collar, or is sticking her hip out at an odd angle, SHOPBOP. Grr.
Beautiful color, though!
Nancy P
Apparently those are pants, not leggings. Whatever they are, they look like long johns from the 1890s.
Anonymous
They’re so awful! I can’t concentrate on the blazer!
Former 3L
Long johns from the 1890s are exactly my aesthetic! I call it “Early 20th Century Maine Mental Institution.”
Kady
LOL.
Noelle
I love the jacket, although I’d probably wear it more often with jeans on the weekends than anything else.
Also — a threadjack:
I’m looking for some collective fashion advice. I bought this dress a few months ago and have gotten quite a bit of wear out of it over the summer (wedding, baby shower, nice dinner with the husband, etc.):
http://shop.nordstrom.com/s/elie-tahari-kathy-dress/3182272?cm_cat=datafeed&cm_ite=elie_tahari_'kathy'_dress:354335&cm_pla=dresses:women:dress&cm_ven=Froogle&mr:referralID=NA&mr:trackingCode=024B08C0-A388-E011-8116-001517B1882A
When I bought the dress, the saleswoman at Nordstrom said she thought the dress would transition well to the fall with the right tights and sweater. Does anyone have ideas on what color said tights and sweaters (and shoes) should be?
The dress is mostly a dark navy, with some flecks of purple in the navy. The middle part of the dress is a pretty combination of white, pink, green, and orange. It honestly looks so summery to me that I have a hard time seeing it in fall colors — which is why I didn’t ask the saleswoman to elaborate on her comment. Should I just darken up the dress with black shoes, sweaters, tights?
I would love to get more wear out of this dress, so I appreciate any ideas the group has!
somewhere(less)cold
No suggestions, but I really like that dress and might have to get it. How is the sizing/fit?
Eponine
I’d try a kelly green cardigan and sheer hose with beige pumps. I’d stay away from pastels.
I wouldn’t go for black since there’s no black in the dress. It’s better to pick a color that appears in the pattern. You could also go for an orange cardigan and sheer hose.
Anon
Crisp white button down under. Navy tights that match. Brown/tan boots.
Bonnie
This is a very pretty dress but looks summery to me. You can get some more wear out of it by pairing it with a cardigan but I think it would look odd with tights.
Lawra
I might do grey tights with this. Or maybe some kind of taupe-y color.
lostintranslation
Yes so would I. And then wear a cardigan close to the orange or green in the midsection of the dress.
Ru
Hmmmm, it could be a fall dress, especially on sunny days. I’d pair it with burgundy, olive, eggplant tights and maybe a mustard colored cardigan. Or even a burnt orange. Black would look odd with this dress, I’d go with a gray in the medium-to-charcoal range.
Former 3L
I would do a blazer, not a cardigan. With the midriff detailing, I think you’d just get a Michelle-Obama-on-Election-Night vibe, when she wore that Narciso Rodriguez (?) black dress with the red middle which was so chic and cool and then sort of wah-wah’d it with a black cardigan. (“Wah-wah” = sad trombone.)
Noelle
Thanks for all of the suggestions! They are so much more creative than what I was coming up with! And yes — I completely agree with the MObama Election Night wardrobe issue. Best to avoid the “wah wah” factor.
To answer the question on sizing: The dress seems a pretty “standard” size. I’m usually a 10 in dresses from Nordstrom (e.g., Classiques Entier) and Ann Taylor, and I am a 10 in this dress a well.
In terms of fit: I’m pear-shaped, with wider hips and bigger thighs, and this dress accommodates my shape well. It’s not too tight across the middle and across my thighs (like pencil skirts and tighter sheaths can sometimes be on me). I can move comfortably in it, but I also don’t feel like I’m hiding my bottom half under a fuller skirt. The tank top is flattering, and you can wear a regular bra with it. I hope this description helps.
anon-oh-no
nude-for-you pumps and stockings and a (a) fitted tan blazer, (b) kelly or perhaps more of an olive green fitted cardigan, (c) a burnt orange cardi. With either of the cardigans, try a skinny belt over the top, perhaps in a navy leather or with the orange you could try a dark brown patent or croc/snake skinny belt. With that, you could do a matching shoe, though the nude would still look great.
Alex
That is a great dress!
mamabear
I don’t do this but my college aged niece is a master of wearing sundresses year round. She toughens them up with boots and adds a chunky cardigan, sometimes belted. I don’t know whether the chunky cardigan with a belt would be a good choice for this dress (probably not) but the boots would definitely help. I’d wear chestnut colored boots and on not-too-cold days bare legs. On colder days maybe heathered tights.
b23
Beautiful jacket!
Question: I just removed this corally nail polish that I’ve been wearing the last few weeks (several applications). My nails are now a bit orangey. Thoughts? Will it go away? Should I use nail polish remover again to get it off? Or should I just repaint my nails coral? :) Also, how bad is it to have your nails painted for several weeks in a row?
Eponine
You’ll have to wait for it to grow out. However, a good base coat will prevent this from happening in the future. I suggest painting your nails a lighter color or even a semi-transparent shade to cover the yellow for the next few weeks until they grow out, and use a base coat.
As for how bad it is – it really depends on your nails. My nails are basically unbreakable and they grow like weeds, and nail polish doesn’t seem to have any effect on them. But I’ve heard that some women find that it weakens them significantly. I personally think that it’s the remover, not the polish, that tends to cause damage to my nails.
MelD
Your nails are stained, but you may be able to get some of the orange/yellow out by buffing your nails. I know that seems to help me a bit. There are also some types of polishes/pens that are designed to help remove some of the yellow that you may want to try. Otherwise you’ll just have to wait until they grow out.
Kathryn Fenner
Sometimes I have had success doing housework w/o gloves–the harsher chemicals can help–except you might lose some nail…
Lemon juice or peroxide soak….
houda
Soak your nails for a few minutes in a bleach with water.
You can also try lemon but it’s less effective
Anon
Never tried it, but my MIL recently told me that she saw a hint on that show The Doctors to soak your feet in denture cleaning solution—like Polident tablets?
Anonymous
A more cost effective alternative that I’d been thinking about for a long time:
http://www.thelimited.com/detail/elastic-sleeve-knit-jacket/2829324
Only XL left now though…
Bonnie
Great find.
Eponine
Red or navy blazers with gray slacks are inseparably linked in my mind to tour guides and concert hall ushers. I actually think it’s easier to pull off a whole red suit than just a red blazer. I can’t think of what colors would go well with just a red blazer.
Then again, I don’t really like red and I never wear it, so I may just be biased.
Bonnie
To avoid the uniform look with a red blazer, I’d avoid colorblocking. A red blazer can look great with a print or graphic.
Anon
It’s gorgeous, but why is it called a ‘fiance’ blazer? Is it like ‘boyfriend’ jeans?
What if one has neither – can we have a ‘fabulous single girl skirt’?
;-)
Ballerina Girl
Yeah, agreed! I’m tired of the “boyfriend” and now “fiance” label. It’s like designers need to tie their designed to heterosexual relationships whenever they feel like it’s slightly masculine. It’s like “hey, we promise, you won’t be mistaken for a lesbian because you wear our jacket!” Ridiculous! They even had kids sweaters called “boyfriend” sweaters. I just think it’s dumb.
Eponine
Actually the reason it’s called that is because the cut is similar to the cut of a men’s jacket, rather than the nipped-in cut of a women’s jacket. It’s as though you borrowed a jacket from your boyfriend. I very much doubt that designers care if you actually have a boyfriend.
Em
I do think it’s a perceptive point, though, that designers market items for women cut in menswear style with the explicit suggestion of heterosexuality. There’s a reason that makes them sell better than another name (or is perceived to make them sell better than another name).
Mella
Ugh. Maybe it’s not supposed to be fiancé like a guy, but a made-up word fee-ance that’s supposed to connote fierceness or something.
I say this as someone who surfed the Steve Madden site last night (in response to the thread about weekend clothes/boots) and grew weary of all the “creatively” spelledd naemes of their shhoes.
Mella
or now that I look at the blazer again, maybe “the fiance blazer” is supposed to sound like “defiance blazer.”
Kady
Honestly, when I first saw this post, I thought it said “finance” blazer. And I was confused if this was somehow cut specifically for finance professionals. (IDK, maybe extra large pockets for all the tissues to wipe away tears/sweat from last few days??)
anon
lol
Jas
Me too! I couldn’t figure out why people were so annoyed by the word “finance” and what that had to do with boyfriends. I think I need more caffeine.
Anon101
Threadjack:
I am going to a networking event tonight sponsored by a company I applied to work for. The event is pitch and putt and the invitation says dress is casual. I will be coming straight from work.
Thoughts about this outfit: flats, pencil skirt, cotton tee, and cardigan? btw I am located in the Pacific NW.
Thanks!
Anonymous
Yes, perfect for PNW.
Nonny
Pitch and putt in PNW? I would not wear a pencil skirt – too difficult to actually pitch in (though putting would not be an issue!). If you have a khaki A-line skirt or perhaps wide-leg linen pants, that would be my suggestion instead.
Ladybug
Not sure about the pencil skirt. If the event is “pitch and putt” it means you will be doing some mild golfing. Usually par 3, drive and then a couple putts. I don’t know about you but I couldn’t drive a golf ball in a pencil skirt.
Alex
Maybe you could just swap out your pencil skirt for a golf skirt (or even long shorts) after work (same top)? Maybe look on Athleta or Title Nine for some cues on golf outfits. Might be too late for that…
Does anyone else love golf fashion? I wish I could live in skorts, polos, and visors :)
Anon for this
Frequent poster, anon for this because it’s a little sticky. Is there any significant legal benefit to being married? I’m currently in a serious, committed relationship and we’re thinking of getting married. Last night, I was running the numbers, and we would be hit with a significant marriage tax penalty if we got married (to the tune of $1000/month). Neither one of us is concerned with the social/religious aspects of being married vs. committed. I have family members who have been together for 20 years, for example, and have never gotten married but own property and have kids together. But is there something more that we should consider legally, perhaps surrounding kids or hospitalization or property rights? I know this is a really unromantic question, but I thought you all might have some insight.
Former 3L
There are. I can’t say which ones would be personally applicable to you, or make the difference for your personal situation, but this is basically why courts say gay marriage is a necessary civil right–all of the property rights that attach to it. (1138 federal rights at last count.)
Sorry for the sort of crap links, but:
http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/marriage-rights-benefits-30190.html
http://www.marriageequality.org/1-138-federal-rights
http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d04353r.pdf
another anon
If you decide not to get married, I think you should definitely talk to an estate planning lawyer and make sure you both have wills that specify how your property will pass upon your death. Otherwise, if one of you dies, and for example, your house is only in the deceased’s name, you could be in big trouble. And get health care advanced directives, if you want your significant other to be the one who makes health care decisions for you should you become unable to make those decisions yourselves. I’m sure there are other things I’m not thinking of–but really, talking to an attorney would be best.
anon
Not unromantic, simply practical and kind of refreshing, given that so many people’s marriage associations involve around decidedly impractical notions like dresses diamonds flowers and cakes.
I went through this with my SO. The benefits conferred upon marriage vary by state. In summary, most of the automatic benefits relate to end of life care, and to transfer of property and assets after death. Your approach should be to decide how you want to handle medical situations, how you want to share assets together, including buying them, sharing them during life, and leaving them upon death, and then take steps to set everything up as such. This can be done in part with a will, and in part by filling out a lot of forms .. see below.
On healthcare, you can take proactive steps to write medical directives and designate who decides what, should either of you be in a position to need it. So you don’t have to be married to have sufficient say over medical or end-of-life issues, but you DO have to take proactive steps to state your choice of person in advance. A lot of homosexual couples run into problems because they don’t do this (many people don’t) but, b/c they are not legally married, they find themselves shut out of decisions.
For financial accounts / retirement plans: many of these have a designated beneficiary feature. Be sure to check and specifically designate the other. Marriage sometimes confers automatic right to one another’s retirement assets upon death (something that can cause a lot of problems, when long-divorced people die) but just make sure you go and set it up the way you want it.
For property, cars, other assets: if you legally have joint ownership of an asset, I don’t think it matters whether you’re married or not. If you own the asset and want him to get it if anything happens to you, write your will to designate this as such. You can also designate each other as the default person who gets everything not specifically designated in the will – i don’t remember the legal term for that.
The benefits of not getting married:
– sometimes lower taxes, as you’ve just seen
– no obligation/exposure to each other’s debt or other liabilities
– no divorce proceedings or obligations if you decide it’s not working
– no automatic transfer of retirement assets upon death
– no wedding planning :)
Good luck.
Janie
The above posters covered everything I can think of. The NYC Bar association did a run down of every (New York) law that confers benefits to married people in the run up to the same sex marriage legislation that just passed here. Unfortunately, I don’t have a link but it is somewhere on their website. That might give you a good sense if there is something else you are missing. Personally, husband and I decided that it was worth it to us to marry because “married” is a convenient legal and social shorthand for a lot of things that we are to each other. But being married doesn’t cost us that much in taxes!
anon
With respect to hospitalization/consent for treatment-type issues, you just need to have health care power of attorney/directive forms naming each other as health care decision-makers if one of you were to be unable to make your own decision. Typically, if you’re not married, you won’t be able to be named as dependents on each other’s health care coverage through an employer – which could become an issue of one of you stops working to raise kids or whatever. However, some employers will allow opposite sex domestic partners to be named as a dependent on health care and other employee benefits if you sign an affidavit of domestic partnership – many employers with offices in states that don’t recognize gay marriage/civil unions have this process, and sometimes make it available to non-married opposite sex couples as well (my last employer had this policy). Be sure to check with your employers’ policies if this becomes an issue. With respect to property rights, that can be handled contractually – if you buy property together, you just list both of you on the deed/title/loan documents.
A. L.
To add to the others already listed: there are considerable estate and gift tax benefits to being married. Depending on your assets and life plan, that may or may not be an issue for you (e.g. will you ever make significant [>$13,000] lifetime gifts to each other, or to others where the ability to elect gift-splitting would be beneficial?). If you’re making enough for the marriage tax penalty to be that high, it’s probably worth talking to an estate planning lawyer who can weigh each side and figure out if the income tax penalty now is worth paying to qualify for the estate tax benefits later (of course, even that involves a lot of speculation as to how Congress will decide to play with the estate tax next).
Anonymous
not a tax person and not married, but my understanding – from friends who do this – is that there is a “married – filing separately” tax option that does not combine your taxes. Also, in many states I know that certain debts (student loans, cc) will not automatically become joint obligations upon marriage.
I don’t know any details of this, but it may be worth confirming that the tax downside is really what you think if that’s the only thing holding you back.
E
Plus, I couldn’t claim my student loan interest when DH and I were married filing separately. We can only claim that as married filing jointly.
Sucks.
mamabear
Married filing separately is not the same rate as two single people filing singly. It is a much higher rate.
There really is such a thing as the “marriage penalty” in tax, where two people earning high incomes pay more taxes as a married couple than adding together what two singletons earning the same incomes would pay.
It’s sort of a “two people can live as cheaply as one” fallacy, left over from long, long ago. But naturally the IRS/Federal government are not willing to give up any sources of tax now.
Eponine
Couldn’t you just file separately?
anon
All else equal, Married Filing Separately usually hits you with the biggest tax liability of all. Much higher than Filing as a Single or Filing Jointly.
The IRS generally encourages marriage, which is why Married Filing Jointly is a good deal for a lot of couples, *but* for certain couples in certain income ranges or with certain income disparities, the tables turn and it actually becomes a lot more expensive.
But some couples do Married Filing Separately in order to avoid complications when, say, one spouse owns a business or something.
anon
Being married gives you all sorts of legal rights, but some issues will depend on the state where you live (e.g. if the state offers .
-Immigration issues
-Ability to defend your partner’s rights when you are abroad. For some reason the US embassy will listen to you if your husband is having issues, but not your boyfriend.
-Rights to property, alimony, savings etc if you break up
-Health insurance
-Decisions about children
-Debt and bankruptcy
-If married, you can transfer as much money as you want between the two of you without ever paying income or gift taxes (penalties).
-Automatic parental rights (if male). In some states (like IL) the married spouse has automatic paternity rights, even if he is not the biological father or on the birth certificate (could be a good or bad thing).
-If one of you loses a job or cannot work, you will more easily qualify for spouse’s health insurance
-If you stay unmarried, often the next of kin (your parent) will have more say and rights to your property than your partner.
Since your income will probably not always be the same, it seems like making a decision based on a tax bracket might not be the best move.
I love this question!
I have long wanted to write a book about what you get if you marry without a prenup (a contract, the terms of which you did not negotiate, but the state negotiated on your behalf and which are found sprinkled throughout the state evidence, family, tax, insurance, health, property etc codes and the federal tax code) and what you get if you marry with a prenup (a contract, many of the terms of which you negotiated for yourself) and what you get if you don’t marry.
I agree with all the points the previous commenters made. I will add a couple:
1. We have a cohabitation agreement (we will be engaged for a few years until his younger child graduates and his former wife calms down and stops making comments about how much money I make/have). That may be a good option for you to resolve some of the non-government controlled aspects of joining lives.
2. You definitely each need a trust, will, power of attorney, health care directive and HIPAA directive.
3. Think about other federal and state “benefits” that you get automatically by marrying. A lot of them don’t come immediately to mind for financially independent women because they were created during a time when women were financially dependent and so “needed to be protected.” Social Security, for example: you can claim through your spouse’s work history instead of your own (legislative history assumption: his will be bigger than hers) only if you were married for at least ten years. You can download a very user friendly article about that here: http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1705845
Good luck.
Ru
Please write the book! Or blog! You’d definitely have an audience.
S
Ditto!
Anon for this
OP here – thank you all so much for your thoughtful responses! This is all very helpful (and gives me a lot to investigate further). This community never ceases to amaze me with the wisdom and generosity of the women here.
mamabear
I’m married, and I hate the marriage penalty on taxes so I have thought the same thing. Here are the two things that make it worth it to me
Holding property title as Community Property
Having automatic visitation rights if spouse is hospitalized.
That’s it. We have children, and a lot of people use that as a reason that marriage is better, but I can’t find any non-religious rationale for that.
GovtMom
On the kids issue — I think Carolyn Hax has written on why (if there’s a choice), married is better for kids than not, for practical reasons not religious or social ones. Automatic assumption of paternity is one; I know there are more but they are not springing to mind immediately.
C3
This may be a silly question, but can people see if someone specific has looked at their LinkedIn profile? Personally, I cannot tell who checks, but I keep getting notifications that I COULD see that information.
For context, I am an attorney in a new city and looking for people to network with who attended my undergrad/law school. And to clarify, I am not asking them to connect with me on LinkedIn, I am simply seeing who is out there and then hoping to send a professional letter/e-mail to their office address. I just don’t want to creep anyone out!
Thanks ladies!
Fiona
Yes, you can see who has viewed your LinkedIn profile. Sometimes it will say the specific person, and sometimes it will just say “An Executive at the Coca-Cola Company” or something more anonymous. I think you can also upgrade to get more information on who is looking at your profile.
That said, I don’t think it’s that big of a deal. I see that old classmates and people I used to work with have looked at my LinkedIn profile all the time, and I never think it’s creepy. It’s just part of professional networking. (It’s not at all the same as looking at your ex-boyfriend’s new girlfriend’s Facebook profile or something like that.)
anon
as fiona says, you can see it – but you can also block yourself from being seen by upgrading your account so that people only see “legal associate in SF” instead of Jane Smith.
Anonymous
You don’t need to upgrade, actually. It’s in options that you can make it anonymous.
Consultant in NoVA
You can select to be completely anonymous with the basic, free account. I think it prevents you from seeing who has viewed your profile as well. Go to Settings/Profile.
Batgirl
I wanted to give you guys an update on my sister’s health, which I posted about last week.
For those who don’t remember, my 23 year old sister has been suffering from debilitating dizziness and headaches for almost three years. After seeing about 40 different doctors, one doctor seemed sure that it was a form of dystonia, which is a movement disorder.
So my sister got Botox shots in the back of her head/brain last Friday. The idea is that it paralyzes the muscles and stops the tremor in her head that is causing the dizziness.
She got a low dosage and while it’s hard to tell for sure, she has woken up without dizziness for the past two days–the first time that’s happened in three years! We’re very hopeful that they’ve nailed down the diagnosis and that this treatment will prove successful. Some of you cautioned me about the risks, which I appreciated and shared with my sister. Her discomfort was serious enough that she decided to brave the risks and is so far glad she did.
Many of you were kind enough to offer advice, support, and precautions, and it really meant a lot to me. Thank you so much for your continued thoughts and prayers for my sister. She means the world to me and the idea that we’ve found a way to improve her health brings me to tears. Thanks again to everyone for their kind thoughts and comments.
Diana Barry
I am glad that she is feeling better – hope it continues!!!!
CW
I’m so glad she’s doing better!
TX Attny
Batgirl, I’m so glad your sister’s health has been a bit better. I’m hoping that it’s a permanent solution! Pleae keep us updated.
E
Continued prayers! Perhaps a more permanent solution may be found.
South of Houston
So glad to hear this! Hope that she is well on her way to a full recovery.
Always a NYer
So happy to hear she’s feeling better!!! Still sending prayers her way =)
Batgirl
Thanks everyone! She’s happier than I’ve seen her in years!
Ru
That’s great, so happy for your sister and family!
Anon
Can I get an “Is this normal?” check from the group?
In the six weeks since I began my clerkship, I have drafted ONE subpoena and ONE motion for contempt. The rest of my time has been data entry, things like addresses & phone numbers for a class action and checking account balances for a business scam. I left a very successful but unfulfilling career to come to law school, so perhaps I’m chafing at being at the bottom of a shockingly disorganized firm, but I was expecting more out of this experience.
So is it normal for clerks to spend their time on this sort of mindless nonsense or should I be getting some sort of practical legal education out of the deal?
Ballerina Girl
Is this a judicial clerkship or are you with a firm? I think anything is normal in the first six weeks. I have had two legal jobs since graduating from law school and it’s always taken a good three months to get fully geared up and doing interesting work. Chin up!
Kady
I think we’d need more information – is this a summer clerkship? Or are you in a coop program where you clerk while you’re still in LS? Or have you graduated from LS and you are in your first year as an associate?
Anon
This is my 1L summer. The firm’s offer was that you can keep the job as long as you want it, up to graduation, working as little or as much as you want. (Since they’re a 4 person firm in a small town, there’s no expectation of an offer, so no incentive to stick it out in data entry land, other than burning bridges, which leads me to…)
I guess the second part of this question is that since this is the most dysfunctional working environment I’ve ever had the misfortune to be a part of and I’d literally be driven to drink if I had to stay here through school, so how do I gracefully bow out? The other [22yo, party hard, it’s ok if you come in hungover] clerks all love it and will continue on. I have literally had dreams about receiving better offers so I have an excuse other than “your firm is a hot mess” for leaving.
Margaret
The most mindless work generally gets passed down to the most junior person, like legal assistants, paralegals, and clerks. The clerks in my firm do a lot of this stuff.
In terms of what this means about your career as a lawyer: to be blunt, you will do mindless data entry as a firm associate — as well as substantive, interesting work. At the two firms I’ve been at, in my regulatory practice, the document review and data crunching is usually in 2-3 week stretches every 4-5 months as part of a larger case I’m working on. You should expect to see a mix of mind-numbing and substantive work an attorney for a few years, so long as you’re at a large firm with cases large enough to have mindless work — someone has to do it. Your project sounds particularly painful and, as I said, the kind of work that is passed off to clerks, but so long as you’re at a firm, you should expect some amount of painful spreadsheet-reading-type of work as a junior (and even mid-level) associate.
Diana Barry
Ditto to this whole post.
Anon
Thank you, Margaret, I appreciate your reply. And I was afraid that would be the answer. It is incredibly hard to leave a profession where you’re on the top and in charge and go down the bottom. I’ve paid these dues elsewhere already…but they don’t count here. (Pathetic whine: can’t I get a little different treatment than the 22yo party kids? Just a little? Doesn’t the really impressive resume you hired me for count for something? End whine.)
I was just hoping that the ratio of substantive to data entry at least was off. 5 hours of substantive work, 235 hours of data entry. Sigh.
MelD
Fear not, it may change when you get out of law school. I am in my first legal job with a government agency and have been given a lot more responsibility than a person who went straight through would have gotten. That said, I did have to go through a period of ramping up to get more challenging work. In any job, your employers need to assess what your strengths and weaknesses are before figuring out what work they can assign. Once you’ve been there 3-4 months, they should have a better idea and can assign you more challenging work.
Anon CA
Ditto to this. Also: every law firm where I’ve worked has been incredibly, unbelievably disorganized. It’s almost shocking and at times I have wondered if the management does it on purpose — that’s how bad it is. Actually, maybe it is on purpose in a way — you can bill a lot more to the client if you’re spending an hour looking for a document to attach to a declaration while running around on a last minute filing that requires “all hands on deck” …
Sorry. Ending rant now.
CC
Are you at a firm? If its not a judicial clerkship there is a wide variety of what you will do. What year are you? Is it your first summer law job?
SF Girl
A few thoughts.
There is a definite difference between a first year attorney (licensed, can go to court, can be in the caption on pleadings) and a first year law student.
As a first year law student, there is a limited amount of practical LEGAL knowledge you have. I too came from another career that I was quite a bit along in, and it is tiresome to have to start from the bottom again. I would urge you to take it all in stride… everyone has to “fetch the water and make the coffee” at some point. I assume, given that it’s a small firm, as time wears on, and if you are around a lot and show you are capable, people will begin to give you more substantive work to do. But yes, everyone has to grin and bear through the grind of entering data, searching for utter nonsense, and doing menial tasks. Regardless of whether you are a first year law student or a first year attorney, you will still find yourself doing some of these things… it’s the nature of the beast– this sort of stuff “rolls downhill,” so you’re it.
The other 22yo’s probably don’t care what they’re given to do because… well… they don’t care. So ignore them. When you show up to work, be professional. Take on every task like it is the most important one you will ever do. Work at everything 100%– be thorough, be careful, be diligent. The partners at the firm will see your work product, and, eventually, you are likely to be rewarded through more substantive work.
In the end, the truth of the matter is that the market is horrible out there now. So I would hang onto this position, especially during law school. You can always look to pursue another position at another firm, but it helps tremendously to show that you a.) have practical legal experience, and b.) that you have continuous legal experience. Both of these you would get by staying at this firm.
GovtMom
This (in addition to what others have said re stuff rolling downhill).
I’m sure your resume is impressive, but as a 1L, there really is just so much legal experience you can have. You are not THAT much of a step above a recent college grad (other than the coming-to-work-sober part re your other co-workers). This is what 1L summer frequently looks like. You are likely to do more legal work 2L summer, when you’ve got 2 years of law school under your belt, but still … you’re learning to be a lawyer, you aren’t a lawyer yet.
E
I know I was fortunate in finding the clerkship I enjoyed in law school, but I was drafting briefs. That being said, I took the position after my second year of law school when I was a little more solidly positioned to take on some of the more substantive projects. I think these are dues you’ll have to pay until you get to that situation, and you’re probably well advised to keep your mouth shut and just do it, as distasteful as that may be, because the last thing you want is a bad reference in this economy. Things will get better as you finish more schooling.
mamabear
I’m not a lawyer but I am chiming in to say that grunt work and starting at the bottom are normal for anyone switching careers.
I’m an actuary. Several years ago we hired a man who was switching careers into my field. He had been a manager at his previous job, but made the decision to move into our field because the future is brighter for this career. We emphasized that he’d be sitting in a cube, would be lowest on the totem pole and would have the most junior title and salary, until he started passing actuarial exams and gained actuarial experience. He swore he was willing and excited to take the step back.
Fast forward 3 months and he was constantly complaining about the junior level work he was doing for us, resentful he wasn’t included in senior staff meetings, and full of opinions about how we were doing everything wrong, based on his “vast management experience.”
Needless to say, he didn’t last long at our company. Don’t be that guy.
(p.s. he never passed an actuarial exam, either!)
mamabear
P.S. I don’t actually think you’re “that guy” because you bothered to ask the question, which he never would have!
anon chi law
threadjack/rant – feel free to ignore.
I just graduated from law school and took the bar this summer.
I’m still looking for a job (just like 90+% of my classmates).
I feel very lucky in that I know exactly the field I’d like to practice.
BUT.
I refuse to vary too much from that area. I’m looking at bigger firms where I can get into a general litigation group and hopefully move towards what I want to do. I’m looking at firms that are even tangentially related to what I want to do. But I refuse to waste my time (and a firm’s time) at a job that isn’t even close. Is this selfish/crazy? Should I just take what I can get right now?
I’ve asked 1000 people for advice on whether it’s a bad idea to take “any old job” out of law school, and I can’t seem to get a straight answer.
I’m ready to fast-forward a year when we’ll all be looking back at ourselves saying “oh, weren’t we so silly for being so worried…”
Blah whatever this probably doesn’t even make sense anymore. End rant time for a nap I guess.
L
I think you should take whatever job you get, and continue looking for a better one. It is hard out there – I know 2009 grads who are still looking for their first legal job.
Eponine
It depends on your financial situation. It is true that if you begin practicing in a particular area, you can very quickly become pigeonholed as that type of lawyer and it is hard to transition to a different practice area. The farther away your first area is from what you want, the harder it would be.
However, it’s far better for your career trajectory to be practicing any type of law at all than to be working at Starbucks or unemployed. If you can afford to take an unpaid internship or fellowship related to your intended area of law, that would be the best option short of an actual job in that area. If that’s not an option, then take whatever legal job you can get, and build up your resume related to your preferred field by taking CLE, doing pro bono work in that area if possible, and going to conferences or seminars where you’ll meet other practitioners.
MelD
I don’t think there is a definite answer to your question. There are some jobs out there that are pretty much dead-end positions that offer limited chances for growth or advancement. I see no reason to apply to those jobs at this point, but in the overall scheme of things, those jobs probably represent a small proportion of the jobs available.
If you want to do litigation, then you should focus on jobs that will allow you to get some litigation experience. You may find that other practice areas are interesting once you start to get more knowledge/experience about the area. The reality is that a lot of people finish law school sure they’ll like one practice area or litigation and realize that it’s really not for them after all. Other people go into jobs they think they won’t like and realize they love them. I think you need to keep an open mind and apply to as many positions as you can at this point.
Another Sarah
2010 grad, looking for my first permanent legal job and waiting on more bar results. I have friends who also refuse to look beyond exactly what they want, and they are still looking. If you’re lucky and what you want comes your way, awesome. But if you absolutely refuse to take something you don’t really want now, just be ready to hang out for awhile.
Keep in mind that it’s easier to get another job while you have one. IMO, while you’re waiting for your practice area to open up, might as well get some good and translatable experience doing something similar.
Alex
I what you want is litigation, just in a particular area, I don’t think it would hurt to get litigation experience in a different substantive area. I think some of us have said this type of thing before – litigation is litigation. You can learn the substance. I moved into a litigation position in a pretty specialized area after many years in another substantive area, and I was only hired here because I had the litigation experience. Just keep networking in the area in which you are interested.
Anon for this
Today is the day of legal recruiters threadjacks… can anyone recommend a legal recruiter in the San Francisco area? I’m currently in NYC biglaw, pretty junior, and looking to make the move (to mid/biglaw) in the next 6-12 months.
SF Girl
Yes. Lee Kuhn (female) at Ryder Smith Legal is fantastic. She’s SF based and knows everything about the SF and Peninsula area.
MJ
Simone Brown at Special Counsel
simone.brown@specialcounsel.com
Chris Crowley at at Pathways Personnel.
Pathways Personnel
455 Market Street, Suite 1170
San Francisco, CA 94105
Phone.: (415) 391-2060
Both excellent, responsive and have contacts at every major firm. My other experiences were REALLY, REALLY bad, so…don’t just speak with anyone. Chris and Simone are very, very connected and in tune with the market and will give you an honest assessment.
I have had friends who used Lateral Link too. (I have worked in biglaw here.)
Note that many firms do direct hiring as well, and are good about placing openings on their websites, so you may want to go that route too, before speaking with a recruiter. If you can email a partner at a firm who went to your law school, or get an in–I’d do that. My group has hired a ton of laterals lately and it’s been mostly through connections and direct submissions. The headhunter fee comes straight off my group’s P&L, so they avoid headhunters. I am sure that not all firms are the same though.
That said, Chris and Simone are top-notch, and will give you a very honest assessment, so you should call them anyway. (By the by, they will also tell you which groups at which firms to avoid–they really know the market. Just ask.)
MJ
PS–Not sure if you’ve done your homework, but you really need to be open to working on the Peninsula too–some firms’ “bigger” office is in Silicon Valley. This is particularly true for corporate, and don’t believe folks who tell you otherwise. The commute is not fun, but actually dovetails with biglaw hours pretty well.
Anon for this
Rant time – One of my cases has recently been written up in the local paper (sadly, my “no comment” comment wasn’t quoted in the paper). It’s a pretty devisive issue involving registered sex offenders. The comments on the article are just outrageous. I really want to jump on the comment thread and rip some of these ignorant you-know-whats a new one. *deep breath* I’m just going to take all of that aggression and put it into everything I’m filing….
Anon for this
(different Anon for this than either of the two above Anons for this)
Eponine
There are lots of stupid people in the world. Thank God for the courts to protect us against majority rule.
Ladybug
You know you are working on something really important if people care enough to comment – even if their comments are ignorant. As a litigator, I like reading all those dumb comments because it makes me realize my future jury could be thinking the same dumb things. You are getting a glimpse into your oppositions mind. Now, you know what assanine arguments you have to refute. Often juries get hung up on silly facts and not the law but that can make or break your case. See what they are arguing about in the comments and address it in your pleadings/opening/closing etc!
somewhere(less)cold
I can only imagine what some of the comments are. I would say try not to read them, but I don’t know if I could not read them myself. Although it feels personal, at the end of the day, it’s still just someone being wrong/ignorant/ridiculous on the internet, and you can’t get worked up every time that happens.
kz
oh i hate that feeling. do not give in to the commenters. I worked for an elected official, and the month of October was absolutely brutal for me because I kept wanting to respond to the idiots posting comments on news articles about my boss leading up to the election (we lost the election). But seriously, it will make you crazy. Try to ignore, as hard as it is.
Anon
I’m going through something similar on a deal I just finished up. It involved a foreign investor and the comments online are racist and ignorant. It is so embarrassing and infuriating.
Jas
I always have such a hard time doing that. I work in an environmental science field that gets very politically charged and that people have a lot of misconceptions about. I’ve had to try and refrain from commenting often (sometimes more successfully than other times). It’s especially hard when it’s friends or family spouting nonsense.
StaffingStarr
I’m so glad you addressed the awful leggings right off the bat! What about the drab taupe shirt??? The blazer is awesome, it’s a warm shade of red that would look great with a dark pair of jeans on casual day…