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Our daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices.
I would typically associate a black-and-white tweed with a fall or winter look, but there’s something about this fabric that looks fresh and spring-y to me. Maybe it’s the beautiful, feminine tailoring or the ratio of white to black in the fabric, but I want to pair this blazer with all of my early spring outfits.
I might wear it as a chic outer layer for the coming days when it’s not quite warm enough in the morning to go jacket-less, but too warm in the afternoons for a heavy coat.
The blazer is $240 at Banana Republic and comes in regular sizes 0–20, petite sizes 00–14, and tall sizes 2–16.
Sales of note for 11.5.24
- Nordstrom – Fall sale, up to 50% off!
- Ann Taylor – Extra 40% off sale
- Banana Republic Factory – 50% off everything + extra 25% off with your GAP Inc. credit card
- Bloomingdales is offering gift cards ($20-$1200) when you spend between $100-$4000+. The promotion ends 11/10, and the gift cards expire 12/24.
- Boden – 10% off new styles with code; free shipping over $75
- Eloquii – Fall clearance event, up to 85% off
- J.Crew – 40% off fall favorites; prices as marked
- J.Crew Factory – Up to 60% off everything + 60% off clearance
- Lo & Sons – Fall Sale, up to 35% off
- M.M.LaFleur – Save 25% sitewide
- Neiman Marcus – New sale, up to 50% off
- Spanx – Lots of workwear on sale, some up to 70% off
- Talbots – Buy one, get one – 50% off everything!
- White House Black Market – Holiday style event, take 25% off your entire purchase
Anon
I’m eyeing a white jacket with turquoise trim that is adorable. This is my “sparks joy” part of the brain. The ruthless accountant rest of my brain notes:
WTF are you going to wear this with — only white pants? White elevated tee b/c you can’t figure out anything else (I get that a solid bright jewel tone might work here — hot pink or maybe a sunny yellow, but I look dead in yellow)? And what for shoes, missy? And that part of my brain, I fear, is not wrong. I have a feeling that y’all could do better outfitting this piece.
I’m short and this would be a cropped jacket on a taller person, but one of the few jackets that won’t overwhelm me, so rare in 2023. I need Garanimals for adults now that we’ve abandoned suits for outfits. My brain struggles with outfits.
Vicky Austin
Psst: yellow shoes.
Vicky Austin
Also, check Talbots. If this piece isn’t from there (and it sounds like it could be), I bet they’ve got something similar and you could check out how they’ve styled it.
PolyD
How thick or extensive is the trim? If it’s subtle, I wouldn’t worry about matching it too much.
Maybe try navy pants, khaki pants? For shoes, sandals (the type that are more covered or closed, not invisible strappy ones) or loafers in a light tan color? I like olive with turquoise a lot, maybe an olive top? Do you have a link – it’s hard to make suggestions without a little more detail.
Anon
My brain also struggles with outfits. Back in the day, I loved B. Moss – they did great outfits. Not sure what retailers really do that any more….
Lily
Sounds like navy pants would look cute with the jacket. In terms of shoes, if this is for work, then whatever shoes you would normally wear with a spring/summer outfit should be ok (and should look good with the pants first and foremost).
For shirts, I agree a nice crisp white t-shirt would work, or a sleeveless silky shell, or a button-down if those are your jam.
Anon
A turquoise and white striped tee and navy pants. Over a navy dress. White pants and a grey shirt. Olive pants and a white tee. Over a coral dress, or tee.
Trish
haha! My husband was just saying the other day that he wishes he had garanimals. And why don’t they do them for adults?!
Anon
The answer is don’t try to match it to anything or see it as a neutral item. I’d pair with jeans and any top you like. My style is a bit more eclectic and loud, so I’d consider a leopard print blouse (also a neutral and goes with everything) with jeans and cute shoes.
Anon
Buy it if you can afford it. I’d wear white or blue jeans, with either a white, blue or even black t-shirt. You can also wear black, white, nude or blue shoes and elevate the look with bright jewelry. I have a pink player I’ve only worn once but plan to wear with dark blue denim shorts and a black cropped top and black chunky heels.
anon
My brain also struggles with putting together outfits. Therefore, I have essentially made my own Garanimals by sticking with a fairly cohesive color palette so I don’t have to think about it as much.
AIMS
Ooh, I like this as a suit!
Josie P
Same but hate the crop top (get off my lawn!). So are jackets long now? Not ‘regular’ length but a bit longer? Or cropped? Or both?
Anonymous
Both. Longer jackets are more current. Cropped jackets can work really well with the higher-waisted, wider pants.
“Regular” length are still just fine. They’ll read more classic than current; nothing wrong with that, if that suits you.
Anon
Me too!! Now I want the blazer and the pants!
More Sleep Would Be Nice
Offering up an AM laugh (hopefully)
My two-year-old has discovered the word “boo”. As soon as he gets a chance, it’s non-stop “Boooooooo! Boooo!” and he points towards a print we have in the dining room and tries to say ghost (I think?). DH asked school if there were any songs or books covered in this realm, and the teachers were like “Hmm…no”.
He’s a little behind the curve on speaking so I guess I should be glad he has another word…but this makes me giggle and also…spooks me?
BeenThatGuy
Obviously, he’s gifted and communicating with spirits. What a cutie!
OOO
Too cute! My 2.5 year old is obsessed with ghosts too! He loves to walk around the house with a flashlight to look for them. We also play a game where one of us puts a blanket over our head and walks around and tries to grab the other person. And he loves to sneak up on us and yell “Boo!”
Cb
Oh I have book recs for your kids:
How to Make friends with a ghost and Gustavo the friendly ghost.
OOO
He will love those, thank you!
Cat
Any chance you call little injuries boo-boos? Doesn’t explain the picture, unless it’s so abstract it looks like a boo-boo to him :)
Anon
When my kid was younger, “boo” used to mean “blue” and he liked wearing his “boo shoo” – a pair of blue crocs that was indispensable for any outing whatsoever, even in the dead of winter.
So – maybe he knows his colors?
Anon
Looking for a dupe of the MM Lafleur Antonia top (short sleeve, v-neck wrap front, not tight) in ivory. The Antonia looks exactly like what I need to fill a gap in my closet but $200 is a lot. I’ve already looked at resale sites with no luck.
Anon
Halogen at Nordstrom used to have a near identical top, not sure if they still do but worth a look, maybe even at the rack?
Anon
Aday “wrapped in flax” top, $150 but there’s a 15% off coupon.
Nicole Miller cotton Logan top – $184 but you might have better luck on resale s*tes.
Not quite a wrap: BR factory Dolman sleeve top.
Anon
Don’t know if you are willing to go with a bodysuit, but if so, this might work:
https://www.nordstrom.com/s/wrapped-bodysuit/7034034?origin=keywordsearch-personalizedsort&breadcrumb=Home%2FAll%20Results&fashioncolor=Ivory&color=900
Anon
Speaking of sparking joy, someone please talk me into or out of the Rothy’s “petal” flats in off white.
Anon
Oh those look ugly to my eye, so talking you out of them!
Anon
I agree. They look elderly church lady or small child to me
Vicky Austin
They’re cute, but where will you wear them? Unless you go to church regularly and/or your life is one long baby shower, they don’t seem versatile enough.
Anon
I go to church every Sunday.
here she goes
They’re perfect for church. With that context, go for it!
Vicky Austin
I sounded pretty dismissive of church in my initial post, which I apologize for. They would be great church shoes, especially if you love them, so go for it!
Cat
They seem a little costume-y to me.
Anon
FWIW when I see someone in Rothy’s, it’s like seeing someone with a LV Neverfull bag – I have the passing thought that “oh this person likes to follow the crowd with trends”. Nothing wrong with that at all – but that petty thought is what has stopped me from buying a pair.
Plus Sketchers flats are a way cheaper dupe in better prints (IMHO) that have held up beautifully.
Anon
Rothy’s aren’t at all like the Neverfull bag trend-wise.
Anonymous
I’m another person who totally has this trend follower view For Rothy’s .
Jo March
Tbh, I feel similar about them, but I own two pairs because they’re the most comfortable for my feet so I’m one of those trend followers. Oh well :)
Anonymous
I don’t think this is a fair comparison at all. Rothy’s aren’t obnoxiously branded. Tory Burch flats with the giant T at the toe are the neverfull of shoes.
Red cheeks
ha ha…. I can see that.
Anon
I have four of the Tory Burch flats cuz they are the most comfortable shoe of all time and never missed a beat even as my feet swelled through multiple pregnancies. I don’t regret a single pair! They said I have not bought Rothy’s because unlike my buttery soft Tory Burch flats, I don’t think they are special enough to warrant having the same shoe as half of my coworkers do! So I guess it just takes all kinds….
Anon
I bought Rothy’s because my feet sweat in the summer, and I was tired of buying cheap flats that I would have to throw away before the odor got bad. Now I just toss my Rothy’s in the washer every week or two, and I’ve saved so much money over ~5 years (plus the dread and worry about if my feet stink)
Anonie
I love flats and all things that are girly and rufflepuff (since way before it was in style) but those shoes sound like something that would be my style but just look frumpy to me.
However, no judgement if you love them. Sometimes you just have to buy what makes you smile.
Anon
Did you love Sam and Libby ballet flats in the 90’s? I did and if I needed flats, and could get off my wallet at the $159 price point for fabric shoes, I would buy these. They’re S&Ls for the adults who were teens in the 90s.
Betsy
Talking you straight into them! So cute. I am a little rufflepuff-y, but they would be very versatile in my wardrobe. If I weren’t on a buying ban I would be ordering them as we speak.
Anon
I was prepared for something with daisies all over them based on the reactions to your post but if they’re the off white flats with the single flower at the toe, I don’t see anything objectionable about them. If you love them, get them!
For me, I wouldn’t actually wear them to church. I’d wear them with an otherwise dressed down outfit, like rolled jeans and a linen shirt or loose sweater.
anon
I think they’re really cute. Not for work shoes, but definitely for spring/summer events, church, etc.
Anon
Thank you, all! Yes, thinking for church, running errands, brunch with DH and kid, trips to the zoo….
Anon100
Paging the morning poster from yesterday taking her late-teenage girls to DC:
(reposting from my late late late afternoon comment)
What do your girls like to do? It’s so easy to get overwhelmed with all the museums and ~history~ in DC that maybe they’d like a couple of “fun” modern things? Off the top of my head
– Yayoi Kusama exhibit with the infinity mirror room at the Hirshhorn if it’s still open when you visit. You do have to get free online tickets at noon the day before you go.
– Pixelbloom interactive art exhibit at Artechouse, a short walk from the L’Enfant metro stop. There are discount tickets for $19/person at TodayTix vs the official website right now. (TodayTix is legit, I’ve used it for multiple shows and events just fine.)
– International Spy Museum – IMO a bit overpriced but it’s way more spacious in its new location and by the Wharf than when it used to be near Gallery Place.
– go up to the top of the Old Post Office Tower! Most underrated tourist attraction in DC at the moment, because it’s attached to the current Waldorf Astoria aka the former Trump Hotel. Old Post Office Tower is free, is fast, short lines if any, and great views of the entire city.
– just walk around Embassy Row and Kalorama and gawk at all the buildings
– if you drop by Georgetown for any reason, head over to Dumbarton Oaks while you’re there.
Food:
– agree with everyone else about Ethiopian and the Jose Andres’ restaurants. For more fast casual type places, there’s CAVA grill, RASA, and Teaism to start.
Wash DC
Thank you! Everyone gave some great suggestions!
CapHillAnon
And the Planet Word museum!! It is SO GOOD and it is free. Really interactive and clever exhibits. My young teens adore it.
DC Pandas
+1 Franklin park was also recently renovated and looks great. This is a perfect spot for lunch outside (and you can admire the WaPo building) if the weather is nice. There’s also an occasional pop-up bookstore around the block !
Finch
Not OP- but also heading to DC this April w/ a teen and tween so thank you all for the wonderful suggestions. Excited to tour the monuments and museums, our teen is touring Georgetown- should we stay near there? Any recs for hotels appreciated!
DC Pandas
Most hotels in Georgetown proper will be a bit more $$ than it’s probably worth. I would check across the Key Bridge in Arlington or Foggy Bottom/West End for walkable hotels. If you don’t mind staying in downtown and “commuting” to Georgetown via bus or ride share, I have had family stay at the Moxy on K St and the AC Marriott Convention Center with decent experiences!
Cb
Any wins to celebrate? I’m annoyed at life so trying to look for the positive today:
I just got an email from an editor that our paper on constitutional politics and Covid was accepted with major revisions. And I looked at the referee reports, and they are super complimentary and it’s only 2-3 days worth of work.
And the chapter my co-author and I are 2 months overdue has had its deadline extended for everyone. We were shame faced about it, but apparently no one else has turned theirs in either.
And it’s finally feeling like spring in Scotland. I washed my muddy puffer last week, and I’m hoping I won’t need to wear it again.
Curious
Can I join you in the annoyed at life club? But yay on the publications!
I managed to make a cake last night for my husband’s birthday. It is not the best cake, but a cake happened. I’ll take the win.
Vicky Austin
“All days that end with cake are better than those that do not.” – Deb Perelman
Curious
Aww, this gave me a genuine smile.
Cb
Love it!
Anonymous
Today is my 40th birthday! And I feel much better about turning 40 then I did turning 30.
Vicky Austin
Happy birthday!
Anonymous
So glad to hear. I was fine with 30, but 35 was really upsetting.
Senior Attorney
Woo hoo! Happy Birthday!!
Anon.
I got my annual bonus on Friday, so Yay Me? Also, got a ton of errants done yesterday afternoon.
And today I DID THE THING I was dreading to do for a while – took me only 45 min, so that feels good.
I’m super annoyed at life for a while now as an immunocompromised illness-conscious person, but what gives…
But more recently I’m annoyed with people driving like a**holes right now. As soon as the sun is out again here in the Midwest, people think regular roads (with tons of potholes!!!) are a race track. Some douchebag cut into my lane in front of me yesterday, I slammed on my brakes (yay, ABS), and was just lucky that there was some distance behind me and the driver behind me because they almost rear-ended me. Grrr.
pugsnbourbon
Ah yes. The first sign of spring my my small Ohio hometown wasn’t a robin, but a shirtless 19-yr-old in a lifted truck driving like an a$$ down Main Street. Godspeed.
Vicky Austin
Windows down, possibly blowing diesel smoke out the back? Sounds about right.
Somebody was posting yesterday about how in the Midwest by this time of year everyone just gets sick and tired of dressing for winter even if the temperatures don’t comply, and I thought of how a 50 degree day in March in my college town inevitably meant shorts on all the guys.
pugsnbourbon
I do love shorts + hoodie weather, tho.
Anon
Shorts and sweater weather is my favorite! Especially at the beach.
Anon.
Lol, yes, at the beach this is acceptable.
Note that where I live is about 2 hours away from any beach – and only if you count Lake Michigan as the “ocean”.
In my collegetown in the Midwest, shorts, hoodies and flipflops are worn all year round, in spring the young guys go shirtless and their running shorts are almost indecent. Kids, cover your bums and get off my lawn! (Waves walking stick furiously around – yes, I’m just 40.)
Anonymous
I have a ton of errants to do and today I WILL!
nuqotw
Congrats on your wins!
I am annoyed at life (migraine hangover) too, so I’m eating chocolate in my office and working on a summer funding application.
Anonymous
Life win:
My 9 year old daughter is now a better skier than I am, and talked me into doing a double black trail on our trip this weekend. We both made it down and spent the rest of the day bragging about it to my husband by phone.
Work win:
I have a consulting practice with a partner. She floated proposed pricing for a project by me; I told her to add $25k. She balked, but did it. A few weeks went by and we heard crickets. She was convinced we overpriced. They reached out yesterday and apologized for the delay and want to move forward. FWIW the $25k is because the value of the knowledge our firm brings and the timeline in which we’ll have to do it. Premium pricing for premium service.
Anon
Very nicely done. Thank you for sharing this.
Anonymous
Stuck my toe into job hunting after stagnating. Immediately got an interview. Even if it doesn’t work out, it’s a huge confidence boost!
SSS
I had my first well woman exam this morning with a new gyno and it was easily one of the best gyno appointments I’ve ever had. The NP actually listened to my concerns and explained things and just generally made me feel like a person, not a non-baby-producing-and-thus-worthless uterus like my last doctor.
Anon
I bought some new earrings yesterday? That’s all I’ve got.
Anonymous
TW: infertility
We’ve been trying for 17 months with no luck and I got a HSG yesterday. they said everything looks “normal” so that’s good news! the whole unexplained infertility thing just sucks but it never hurts to get neutral-good news
Vicky Austin
fingers crossed for you!!
anon
Also annoyed at life, but am putting together a plan to turn a hobby into … something. Not a huge money maker but if I make enough to offset my costs, I can see it being a nice little diversion from my day job.
Senior Attorney
My husband’s cataract surgery yesrterday was a huge success and this morning we made the appointment to do the second eye next month. He is already way less grumpy now that he can see better!!
Also I have a big volunteer commitment that will be off my plate as of tomorrow noon so I’m cautiously celebrating a little bit in advance.
The Ancient One
Before having cataract surgeries I was worried, but afterwards I was so happy with the result.
Similar to the happiness that really good hearing aids bring. I should have got these much sooner.
Senior Attorney
Yes, the thing I have learned from Hubby’s experience is that I am going to run, not walk, to the surgeon the very instant I am diagnosed with cataracts. (And I kind of can’t wait because new lenses = no more glasses or contacts!)
Smokey
I think of my cataract surgeries as the closest I have personally experienced to a medical miracle. So easy, and yet just like that I went from vision that could no longer be corrected with glasses or contacts for me to drive safely to having almost perfect vision! After a lifetime of bad vision it was life changing! Hurray for your husband!
Anonymous
And that reminds me, I have a manuscript to write!
Anon
There is a lot going on here but I kinda love these:
https://www.ghbass.com/womens-esther-stud-weejuns-loafer-bax2w104
Anon
Those might be the only cute pair of loafers I’ve seen!
here she goes
I do love the shape and the chunky sole. I feel like I might like these on someone else in person, but leopard + fringe + studs + tassels is too much for me personally. I could take one of those details, but not all four.
Anon
I might have bought these from Limited Too in 4th grade!
Ribena
Kurt Hummel would work these shoes. I would love them without the leopard I think?
Anon
Agreed — it that part could be black, it’s a yes. I am wondering if this could be a very expensive craft project for me to make that happen (still less than husband’s hobbies).
Anon
Right – I’m choose one here, not all three.
pugsnbourbon
Omg theses are amazing.
Anonymous
Those are great!
Anonymous
As much as I hate the leopard detail, I hate the shape even more. But do you.
Anonymous
Omg I texted the exact same thing to my BFF last night about this pair of shoes! I love them too!
Baby shower hosting
A friend and I volunteered to host a baby shower for another friend who doesn’t have any family in the country. I’ve never hosted a baby shower before, so I’m kind of flying blind here. It will have to be at a restaurant since we live in a VVHCOL city and all live in tiny apartments, so I’m trying to figure out finances. Wondering what is typical here. Is the host responsible for the costs? Do guests usually contribute for the cost of their meals? Some of the prices I’m being quoted are in the low $1000s so I’m not sure I can absorb that myself, but also dont want to come across horribly to the guests! Is that just what I signed up for by volunteering to host?
Anon
Generally, the hosts pay for all the costs. I’ve never been asked to contribute as a guest. Do you or any of your friends live in a large apartment building? They often have party rooms you can rent for a few hundred at most. Your best bet to save money is to find a free or cheap place to hold the party.
Anon
This and party platters or Costco frozen appetizers that you can just warm and serve. Recommend the taquitos!
Anon
This — or does any friend know a bigger apartment that can be lent out? I held several a shower in a family member’s apartment. She was delighted to enable celebrations as long as we fully cleaned when it was over. Lastly, a small-ish bar that lets you bring in your own food might be cheaper than a restaurant — you can provide mimosas free to guests and let them buy their own drinks if they want something else (just make that clear!). The bar might be happy to have the extra business at a usually slow time (like 1PM e.g.). I have never once attended a shower in a restaurant in NYC — it’s just not in my, my family’s, or my friends’ income brackets.
Anon
Actually I did once attend a baby shower in a restaurant in NYC. The host fainted and had to be taken to the hospital — yet another sign it’s just too expensive to do unless you’re in a certain income bracket.
Vicky Austin
what?
anonshmanon
I am not seeing the connection — unless the host fainted upon seeing the restaurant’s bill?
Anon
To me this clearly read as a joke. The fainting and the location were not related but made a joke about the restaurant being so expensive it caused the host to faint.
Vicky Austin
@anon 12:18, thank you! I was baffled.
Senior Attorney
*snort*
here she goes
+1 all of this. Hosts do usually pay for all the costs, but I definitely would find a party room that has a lower cost. Expand your search outside of restaurants.
Anon
This – public room in an apartment building is the answer. If no such thing exists do it outdoors somewhere cheap like a park picnic shelter.
Please do not ask guests to contribute to the costs. Being a host means you pay party costs; guests just bring a gift for the mom to be.
Liza
+1 to public park, that was my first thought
NYCer
+1. I don’t think there is a way to pass the venue costs onto the guests. Would be super weird IMO. How is the weather in your city at the time of year when the shower is happening? Could you do it at a park?
Anon
What time of day are you having it at? I would think that 2-4 pm would be less expensive.
If you don’t mind saying what city you’re in, the hive can probably suggest less expensive venues.
Lily
Yes, hosts cover all costs. Sometimes the mom-to-be will contribute as well, I think especially if her friends (vs. family) are throwing the shower. You cannot ask guests to contribute to the costs of the shower.
How many guests will be there? Can you rent out an airbnb (check that it allows parties, if it doesn’t maybe contact owner and explain it will be a very tame baby shower and see if they’ll make an exception) and serve brunch items (bagels, fruit), mimosas, etc.?
anon
Other low cost places to host – churches, synagogues, universities, YMCAs all often have rooms to rent for not that much money and then you can decorate for a little more. Some are even nice. My church has a very pretty parlor that is very popular for baby showers.
here she goes
+1. I’m in a totally different area, but all the bridal and baby showers are either held in homes, or in community buildings like the ones anon at 10;27 names. Our local library has community rooms that are bright and sunny and quite nice. There’s also a couple different town hall event rooms that are quite nice too (much nicer than I expected). This summer I think I’m going to host my sisters bridal shower in a local coffeeshop event room.
Anon
Hosts absolutely pay for the costs, never do you ever try to pass that on to the guests!!
I’m also in a VVHCOL area and have been to tons of showers in small apartments, don’t rule that option out. Have a cake and champagne party in the late afternoon and call it a day.
Anonymous
If nyc counts as vhcol I’ve been to some very charming showers in small apartments.
Keep it short with cake and champagne and try to keep the guest list small and it’ll be fun.
Anon
I have hosted several showers and never asked guests to pay. I think if you are the host, the costs are on you and the co-host. This is different than getting a group of friends together and all agreeing to take out your friend to celebrate with the understanding you will split the bill.
I would look into non-restaurant options due to the cost. Are there any parks with a pavilion you can rent? Or if there is a mall nearby, sometimes they have party rooms. You could see if any of your friends is a member of a swim club that has a party room that can be rented. You might also look into the cost of having a tea or brunch at a hotel which might be cheaper than paying for a full lunch or dinner meal.
Anonymous
Yeah when you host it you pay for it. Guests do not pay for their meals at a baby shower or contribute. Guests bring a gift and that’s it. Offering to host means offering to organize and pay for it and it’s really weird to me that you don’t get that. If you can’t afford a restaurant have it in a tiny apartment and make do or have it in a park. But guests don’t pay.
Auburn
I for one am grateful that this person was conscientious enough to ask for guidance. Telling people “it’s really weird that you don’t get that” about something they’ve never done before isn’t helpful!
Anonymous
This is so sweet of you! Yes, the host is responsible for the cost. When you offer to host, you’re saying you’ll throw a party.
For a baby shower, don’t worry about it being a full meal type event if that’s not in the budget. Figure out what you can afford and work backward from there. Do you or a friend have a small apartment with a living room that can hold maybe 15 adults standing? That’s really all you need. You can do a costco sheet cake, make something yourself- whatever you feel like is in your scope for time and money.
Depending on the vibe you want you could even make a potluck style, but remember that guests will be bringing a gift so asking them to bring food too might be a lot. In some areas/families this would be NBD at all!
OOO
You said your pregnant friend doesn’t have any family in the country. Is a virtual baby shower an option? That way her family can be included, and it would reduce the expense for you. I’m attending a virtual baby shower in a few weeks.
anon
I’ve hosted one and I live in NYC and planned on just using my apartment and then the guest list got significantly big enough that I did it in my apartment building’s event room you could rent out. I think it was like $250 at the time and then I made/bought food and drinks. It was fun but there are times I considered that it would have been less stress to just spend the extra money at a restaurant. How many people are you talking about?
Anon
This is a great idea! You can even contact others who may have space in their apartment building you can rent.
Anon
Renting a restaurant or equivalent for this stuff is expensive! All of the bridal / baby showers I’ve attended have been in some adult family member’s home or a cheaper event space with food from Costco or Whole Foods catering. Almost all of my friends make 6 figures and come from similarly well off families and we still do home or community room showers.
A huge +1 to an apartment buildings party room. If that’s not an option does anyone belong to a club that has an even space like this?
A lot of the other options mentioned above are great ideas (library, municipal hall, fire hall) but in my city they’re only available in the suburbs. Other options could be a VFW post or hosting it at an event space (sip and paint, axe throwing, bowling). A hotel conference room could work too.
Anon
The host pays for the cost of the shower and the guests bring a gift for the parents. Split the cost with your co-host and find ways to cut the cost with food, time of the event, alcohol served, etc. Have an earlier brunch shower with no alcohol or only mimosas and lighter food or buffet style. Is it possible to only have maybe 10 people in an apartment and get it catered? I’m assuming you’re in NYC and I totally get the tiny apartment issue! Also, an outer borough or Hoboken/JC might have cheaper options than Manhattan.
Baby shower hosting
Thanks everyone for the feedback! We’re in a city outside the US, but the guests will almost all be American expats, so it’s helpful to understand expectations for this sort of thing as friends are just entering the having-babies-stage-of-life. Given everyone’s advice, I’ll figure out how to make the budget work with my co-host. Unfortunately buildings with party rooms or common areas are very rare where we live, but I will double check with a few people who live in more modern buildings if they have one.
Anon
Our YMCA has rooms like this for community meetings and some churches even do this. Think of who has a nice space that they can monetize. And a “tea room” sort of place will cost a lot less to get a room in from 2-4 on a weekend than a restaurant, but 2-4 is a lull unless it is a place big on SportsBall.
Anonymous
Is there a common courtyard area? DH’s friends in Europe who were in a large city mostly lived in apartments that had a private courtyard behind the building. Long table (sometimes rented or smaller tables combined) covered with a white table cloth – inexpensive candles from ikea in glasses, with folding chairs or chairs brought outside from whomever lived nearby. Just use a rain date if weather is awful. Cake/coffee/finger foods is fine. Like a selection of breads/meats/cheeses/fruit/veg.
Anon
Is having it outside impossible? April has pretty decent weather in much of the world.
Anon
1 day Airbnb rental?
JTM
For a friend’s bridal shower, a group of us got an Airbnb house – not super fancy but provided enough space for all the guests to be comfortable. Could that be an option?
Also consider using library meeting rooms or community center rooms. For my eldest’s daughter’s first birthday we rented a room in our local community center for a couple of hours, which was perfect for our needs.
Cat
Caution with this, many Airbnbs prohibit parties.
Anon
Agree with the comments about seeing if there’s a room at one of your apartment buildings. I went to lots of showers at “community” rooms attached to apartments.
Universal Orlando
Does anyone have any favorite rides at Universal Orlando? My 10 year old son is going next month. He doesn’t love the really scary roller coasters like Rockin Roller Coaster at Disney, but he likes more tame ones like Big Thunder Mountain. Also if you have any must-sees or other tips, please share – only going for one day since he will be in town for a school event. We will get the fast pass. TIA!
Anonymous
There is an outdoor roller coaster in Hogsmeade that is quite tame.
Anonymous
We loved the Harry Potter ride. And that whole area. Skip the Gringotts coaster but do the rest!
Anon8
Is he going to Universal Studios, Islands of Adventure or both?
Universal Studios
– Revenge of the Mummy is a such a fun coaster — scary but not too scary. Right in between the “family coaster” and “big kid coaster” territory IMO.
– Men in Black Alien Attack – great slow moving ride where you zap aliens with a blaster. Tons of animatronic aliens, way better than buzz lightyear at disney.
– ET Adventure – super charming, never has a line. A dark ride a la Peter Pan’s flight.
Islands of Adventure
– Hagrid’s Motorbike Adventure – I haven’t been on this one but everyone raves about it. It’s a family coaster so shouldn’t be too scary.
– Jurassic Park River Adventure – flume ride with animatronic dinosaurs. On par with Splash Mountain, scaryness-wise
– Amazing Adventures of Spiderman (side note, just now realizing that all universal rides seem to have the word “adventure” in the title, lol) – older 3D simulator ride that totally holds up.
And if he’s into Harry Potter at all, any of the other Harry Potter rides are great too.
If you’ll be with him there’s no need to buy the fast pass ahead of time, you can wait until you’re in the park and see how long the lines are. This has saved me big money before, because oftentimes the wait times in Universal aren’t bad compared to Disney.
Anon
I’ve been very depressed lately, which I’ve chalked up to just extra bad seasonal depression. I already take antidepressants, and I’ve been trying to do all the right things, like exercise, not drink alcohol, eat well. In the past when I’ve had times when I’ve felt really depressed, the overwhelming feeling was usually self-loathing. This time feels different. I feel an immense sadness, but when I examine it a little more I think I’m mostly feeling sorry for myself. I’m almost embarrassed that I’m feeling depressed because of self-pity. I think some of this has been triggered lately by dealing with infertility. Has anybody ever felt like this before? What helped? I’m thinking of a really intentional focus on gratitude, like writing things down every day. I do have a very wonderful therapist I’ve seen in the past and can go to again, but it will probably take a few weeks to get in to see her.
Anonymous
Have you called your therapist. Do that literally right now.
Anon
My psychiatrist recently added Abilify to my antidepressant and it has helped enormously. Perhaps ask your doctor about it or some other supplemental. Hugs.
Anonymous
Your mention of infertility is almost in passing — but I want to validate that yes, it’s immensely stressful. Psychologists compare the stress of an infertility diagnosis to the stress of a cancer diagnosis. Depression is a very common response. If you are working with a fertility specialist, they almost certainly have resources to offer you that could help, whether that’s a therapist that’s associated with their practice or something else. I’d encourage you to take advantage of those resources — they were tremendously useful to me when I was going through my own diagnosis and treatment.
I struggled with gratitude during my infertility-related depression, but in general I think it’s a good practice for most depressions. Getting into and keeping a routine of regular mani-pedis, haircuts, waxes, and massages did help. Also it helped me to have some friends from whom my diagnosis and treatment wasn’t a secret — I actually didn’t talk about any details frequently with most of them, but just being able to acknowledge that I had hard appointments or procedures (or just was having hard feelings about “regular” appointments or procedures, that’s equally valid) was helpful to me. In general, making my fertility struggle ONE of the things on my calendar and in my conversations — rather than the main thing — helped most.
Anon
Thank you for this. I actually think I have been minimizing it in my daily life in the hopes that it makes it less heartbreaking, which doesn’t really work. I probably need to acknowledge those feelings more. It also doesn’t help that the two friends I had been open with about this are now both pregnant and one of them didn’t even tell me, I found out from the other friend.
Anonymous
Oh I was so, so much the same. Once I admitted to myself that I was heartbroken, and that it was not only okay but -absolutely necessary- to care for myself as I would if I had any other kind of heartbreak, that helped more than single, specific action did.
Infertility is hard. It is fresh grief every. single. cycle. You’re grieving the babies you are hoping for, as well as the life you were looking forward to, each time. I’ve never gone through anything like it before. It changed how I related to people and how I related to myself too. That said, you WILL get through and there are beautiful things coming in your life on the other side — no matter whether that happens when you find a path to being a parent or if you ultimately move forward with a childfree life.
Wishing you peace and strength and all the good things. You will be okay, even though you might not be okay right now.
Anon
Thank you so much, this really means so much to me.
Anon
You mention infertility, so maybe you don’t want to take meds right now, so have you tried the happy light for SAD?
Anon
I’m assuming if you’re being treated for infertility, you’ve already had your vitamin D levels checked – but if not, do this!!! I found out through fertility testing that I was extremely deficient in vitamin D and started taking 10x the daily recommendation. I felt an immediate boost in my mood.
anon
You’re going through infertility. I’d be shocked if you weren’t depressed! Do get whatever support you need, but know that it’s just a sh!t time. Don’t gaslight yourself with gratitude if you’re not feeling it.
Anon
Chapter 13 here. I have an interview this week with a very respected, well-established company in my industry. Getting this job would mean a longer commute, but an increase of about 30k a year. I’d be switching from my 40 minute long local commute via walk/public transportation to an hour long drive 3x/week. It would be a lot, but I’m open to it as I’m very interested in both this company and the job itself – the job would be a return to job functions that I used to do at my last place which I miss very much (I don’t miss that place, but I miss the job). You all are the best for keeping me in your thoughts, so I’d appreciate your continued thoughts/prayers/vibes/whatever you do as I navigate this situation this week.
anonshmanon
That sounds awesome, I will cross my fingers for you!
Anon
Crossing my fingers for you!
No Face
Good luck!
I don’t have a long commute, but I do have to drive 4-6 hours in a day for work from time to time. Great for listening to audiobooks!
Anonymous
If you get it, ask for a signing bonus! Fingers crossed.
Anonymous
Awesome news! I know you’ve posted before for advice, so I’m offering some premature and unsolicited advise. If you do get the job, do not change a single thing about your budget or lifestyle. Put every extra dollar toward your debt.
Also, make sure you are contributing to retirement and make sure to make any needed changes to your tax witholdings to account for the higher income so you aren’t stuck at tax time.
Anon
Not the OP, but can you explain why she should put extra towards her debt? That’s fine advice for anyone not in a bankruptcy repayment plan, but misses the mark for the OP. Her plan ensures that all of her debt will be repaid in full, which is why she gets to keep extra salary. Paying extra just… means she’s overpaying?
Bankruptcy also destroys your financial cushion. Isn’t she better off building up an emergency fund (esp with a long commute via car – if something happens to the current one, she needs a replacement ASAP and may not qualify for a loan)?
Anon
I agree with 12:59 here
Senior Attorney
+1
Anon
+1
Vicky Austin
Oh, good vibes!!
pugsnbourbon
Sending you good vibes!
Senior Attorney
Ooh! All the vibes coming your way!!
Anon
Why do all sweaters and tweed jackets pill so easily? These garments just look bad with pilling and I hate buying items that wind up being disposable due to this. The sweaters you can shave a bit, but the tweed — IDK how to do that without hitting a cross-wise thread of the tweed and tearing it. IDK if it is the acrylic or the wool or some other type of fiber. As much as I like a tweed, ima have to swear off of it (or just swear).
Anon
Acrylic is usually a “lucky if it lasts me one season” fabric for me.
pugsnbourbon
+1. It also holds onto smells for me.
Ribena
What I’ve learned is that the softer the fabric the more likely it is to pill, all other things being equal, because the fibres are usually shorter or less tightly plied.
Anonymous
I haven’t noticed that with tweed. At a minimum, it’s much less noticeable to the casual observer than a solid colored sweater. I have yet to find a sweater that doesn’t do this, at least in the underarms. Super frustrating.
Anon
Anything that feels fuzzy to your hand is going to pill. That fuzzy feeling is little tiny fibers sticking up and as you wear the garment the fibers rub together and form a pill. It’s just the price of admission with certain fibers.
That said, I don’t recall this ever happening to anything I own that is tweed.
Anonymous
How do you frame a conversation about professional judgment? I have a junior (3d year, so not new) associate who doesn’t seem to get it. Silly example: I asked him to bring pens to a client meeting. He brought only red pens. I never use a red pen even when I’m marking up his drafts. When I ask for a pen, he hands me an entire unopened taped-shut box of pens. I have lots of these, I didn’t know I needed to teach you that, moments.
The most recent issue has been a matter of extremes. I asked him to send a document to another attorney when we receive it. When he received it, he apparently emailed me to ask if he should send it. I missed the email because I was traveling, he didn’t follow up. I caught it a few days later when I got back. I told him, when he is told to do something he should do it, not create delays by asking if he should do the thing he was already told to do. The same day, a different associate sends a draft to me and copies him. He marked it up and sent it to me. I didn’t ask him to edit it, he hasn’t been involved in this piece of the matter so I’m not sure why he thought he should edit it. I do want him to show some initiative, but he shouldn’t be doing unauthorized work that the client won’t pay for, plus now I have to answer to the powers that be about why I’m writing off his time. I like the kid but I don’t know how to get through to him. Advice?
Liza
On Example 1 – could this be weaponized incompetence? I agree red pens is a ridiculous choice. But I’ve also never heard of an attorney being asked to provide pens for a client meeting. I was a law firm associate for 7 years and was never asked to handle any tasks related to office supplies, nor heard of any of my colleagues being asked to, either. Why would the conference room not already have pens, or why wouldn’t the attendees bring their own?
On Example 2 – was this attorney within your firm or an external party? If an external party, I think it is understandable for a third year to double check before sending a document outside the firm. If done mistakenly, repercussions can be serious. Particularly if your initial instructions were given orally rather than in writing.
On Example 3 – this is definitely the type of initiative that law firm associates are trained to take, but there’s a gap between the junior-associate tendency to only do exactly the discrete task that is asked, and the senior-associate ability to know what will be useful and appropriate to do. Ideally, the associate would propose the project and get sign off before doing it. So for this training point, I’d just say that: “It’s great that you’re looking for ways to serve our clients without being asked, but before actually spending time on any work, please clear it with me first to confirm we can bill the client for it or are okay with writing it off.”
Anon
Not the OP but putting things in writing, clearly, with clear deadlines, does not work.
Liza
What?
Anon
This worked until COVID. With kids who finished school during COVID and are used to texting, your words are just suggestions. Lalala I can’t hear you.
Trish
It sounds like he may not be neurotypical so he is analyzing your requests in a way that you could never guess. He may never learn.
Anon
I’ve never been diagnosed with anything (nor have I sought diagnosis) but I don’t pick up on subtleties well. However, I know this about myself and I know to tell my managers that I would prefer very clear expectations and deadlines on projects.
Anon
Oh ffs, there is not nearly enough detail here to diagnose somebody. Stop it.
Anonymous
Interesting. My first thought reading example 1 was also that the subordinate might be on the spectrum. I also assumed she meant for him to bring pens for himself though, so my reading of it could be way off.
Anon
Bugger off. I have a kid on the spectrum and she is not helped at all by people with this attitude and tendency to armchair diagnose. Bad employees are not the same as autistic employees. Autistic employees are not the same as bad employees. This is what I hoped that DEI would be doing something about.
Trish
I can diagnose you as being another mean girl at 11:54. People need grace and I was offering a possible explanation for why he may seem so obtuse. M-kay?
Trish
Anon at 12:19. It would be sad if someone has been diagnosed with autism but their boss got rid of them because they did not fully comprehend the directions. You know what else? People want to do a good job and there can be reasons why they aren’t. Why do YOU think this guy is just a bad employee?
anonshmanon
Even if he is neuroatypical, the quick rush to dismissal here is a bit surprising. I guess your field has an abundance of qualified and motivated workers and you don’t need to bother making an effort to be welcoming/accommodating to a diverse set of people?
If there is a communication issue, you can try to find out more about it and understand it better. Ask him why he didn’t act on your original instructions to send out the document. Listen to what he has to say and figure out where the communication got messed up.
Anon
Couple of thoughts:
In response to the poster who suggested it might be weaponized incompetence, that would put someone on my short list for a PIP and then getting moved out. It does not matter how silly my associate thinks something is. If I ask them to bring “X” for whatever reason I expect them to do it. Same with sending the documents. If I say send x document to y attorney – then I expect them to do it. Not email me to ask whether I really wanted them to do the thing I specifically told them to do. In your shoes, I would have a conversation about following instructions. Hopefully this is either cluelessness or insecurity – both of which can be fixed.
On #3, cut his time. Explain why you are cutting his time. Nothing teaches an associate the dangers of doing unauthorized work faster.
Liza
Well, your approach to item 1 isn’t really realistic, since there are professional norms around what tasks are appropriate to assign to an associate versus a personal assistant versus just handling yourself. Whether you agree with those norms or not, violating them can cause confusion. Associates aren’t commonly asked to be stewards of office supplies for client meetings (in my experience) so that’s not a skill they’re likely to have, or develop. I’d bet that as a 3rd year associate, that was the first time he’d ever been in charge of client meeting pens, and like any other task being done for the first time, he didn’t get it quite right.
Would OP have preferred if he asked, “Ok, you said to bring pens, so just to confirm, exactly what color and how many and should I take them out of the box?” Or to her is “good professional judgment” synonymous with “done in accordance with my unstated preferences”?
AustinAnon
This is bonkers. Are you the associate we’re talking about? OP cannot share every background detail about this issue in her question – I’d bet there was a reason she asked him to bring pens. And of course he, as an attorney with several years experience, should know to bring a pen in a color that is generally acceptable in the business world.
Anon
I think any competent professional who has spent 2+ years working in an office can handle “please bring some pens to the meeting.” Regardless of whether it’s appropriate in OP’s organization to ask him to do this task, he should still be capable of doing it correctly without any more instruction than the above.
Anon
If I got to the conference room and saw there were no pens in the cup, I would quickly call or text the associate or the partner or whoever else was coming in next to grab some pens. No big deal.
Anon
Srsly — I would expect my admin to follow directions. Why someone with 3 more years of schooling and 3 years of work would do abysmally worse is beyond me. And yet here we are. 3 prior associates could take direction without things spiraling or not getting done.
Anon
Yea I’m ex-Big Law and I’m sort of with him on #2. I was terrified to send things outside the firm without express permission. Big Law is very hierarchical and junior associates (even third years) don’t typically have much authority.
Anon
He wasn’t just given permission (= some judgment to make), he was given direction (nothing to decide; just Do The Thing). It’s not fixable.
Anon
I guess, but I take Liza’s point that if he was only told orally to do it, it’s not crazy for him to want to confirm before doing it. There’s a real CYA culture in Big Law where you want everything in writing before you do anything that could potentially have repercussions, like sending a document to a client or opposing counsel.
anon
Based on the OP’s other examples, if I was her associate I would absolutely be trying to C my A so I didn’t get put on blast by the Pen Lady.
Anon 2.0
Agree. I don’t work in Big Law, but I also have a job where I sometimes want something confirmed in writing before I do it. It is entirely reasonable that he wants to confirm before doing something. Would you rather he double check or clean up the potential mess if it was done in error?
And maybe he just grabbed a handful of pens? I am not sure red pens should be the hill to die on.
Anon
Just commiseration. I have two of these, one worse than the other. If I could buy them a clue, I would have done it years ago. I have tried to be very specific, but in their world, “By 3” does not mean “By 3.” When I send a follow-up e-mail (they never come into the office and don’t do phones) at 4, they’re “on it” and then drop the ball entirely. Words have lost all meaning.
Anon
As their manager can you require them to come in to the office? Does your company provide cell phones? If so, it’d very reasonable to expect them to answer calls during the work day. If not, can you request that your company start providing phones? Can you call them via Teams?
Anon
It wouldn’t matter. It’s not that they can’t be reached, it’s that the duck out on being reached. Big difference. When they respond promptly, I will assume that the economy is in freefall and they are just desperate to avoid the breadlines.
Anon
PIP? Come to Jesus meeting?
Anon
I don’t mean to come down on you I particular but as a fellow manager, I’m always somewhat surprised to see posts like this “my staff don’t do their jobs and there’s nothing I can do about it.”
That’s honestly you not doing your job. You’re a manager, your job is to manage them. This is exactly what a performance improvement plan is for.
The best time to write them up was when this behavior started, which sounds like it was a long time ago. The second best time is now. Get on it!
Anon
This.
Hmmm
Are you sure you aren’t being too hard on him? Honestly, if someone told me to bring pens to a meeting I would be a little confused about what they meant— did you want him to bring the pens for you to use? Or the client? It’s a little odd for you to expect an associate to bring a pen for you use. This person is not your assistant.
Editing another associates draft is weird, but I’d just mention to him that he shouldn’t do that again (and explain the reasoning as you did here).
Not forwarding the email or following up is a mistake on his part but, again, that strikes me as part of a normal learning process and not necessarily a sign that he lacks professional judgment
Liza
I’m really trying to imagine how this whole scene went down. OP: intentionally does not bring her own pen to a client meeting, for unknown reasons, even though she anticipates in advance she will need one. The moment comes when OP needs a pen. OP asks the associate to give her a pen. Associate hands her the box, probably under the assumption that OP needed more than one pen for her own personal use because if that was all she needed, why wouldn’t her work bag have 3+ pens in it already like all professionals do? OP: is absolutely flabbergasted by associate’s incompetence. What?
Anon
+1
Yes
This 100%
Pens?
Wait, why did he you tell him to bring pens to the meeting? Red is a weird choice, but bringing a whole box of pens seems pretty reasonable to me in that circumstance.
Is the issue that you wanted him to open the pens for you and then hand you one when you needed it? Because that’s a bizarre task to assign to an associate (or honestly anyone)
anon
Your second and third examples make sense to me, but the red pens one does not. If you care that strongly about the color of the pens for a meeting (and that they not be brought to you in a box, for some reasons), then bring your own pens. I’m a former biglaw partner, and I both (a) used red pens all the time and (b) cannot imagine making it an associate’s responsibility to intuit the pen colors I wanted and exactly how I wanted them delivered to my hands in a meeting. I’m a legal professional, not Miranda Priestley.
Anon
I laughed at your last line and agree.
Vicky Austin
Yeah, the pen example is sort of giving Miranda Priestly vibes. I agree the other examples are a problem.
Anon
Same!
Liza
This prompts me to ask: OP, is there some reason the associate might have thought red pens were needed, i.e. were you meeting with the client to mark up a draft contract?
Anonymous
Yes I’m sure you wouldn’t raise an eyebrow if you asked someone to hand you a pen to take notes and instead of giving you a normal-colored single pen they gave you an unopened box of red pens that you had to peel the tape off of.
People here sure twist themselves in knots to make women seem unreasonable for having very reasonable expectations. You should really check that internalized misogyny.
Anonymous
This is a very bad take.
Anon
+1M to your last sentence.
“Do X by 2.”
“Are you sure? Sure it’s X? Sure it’s by 2? Sure what “do” means?”
My words weren’t a question. They were clear. We are both native English speakers. I know that they wouldn’t do this with a dude.
anon
Yeah, it was definitely s*xism that an associate didn’t intuitively know the specific color of pens you wanted and your deep aversion to receiving them in the box. If you were a man he would have memorized your preferences as to ink color and tip, and brought a selection of your preferred writing instruments in a velvet lined box, which he would have offered to you on bended knee, while thanking you for the privilege of serving you.
Liza
“I will need a pen to take notes in this meeting,”
Drake meme:
“Bring one myself and pull it out when I need it” /nooooooo face
“Ask the associate to bring pens to the meeting then ask them for one.” /pointing and nodding
Anon
I mean, she said she was a big law partner herself who didn’t care about red pens so clearly she wouldn’t raise an eyebrow? Not disagreeing that internalized misogyny is real and often present on this s1te, but this pen thing is truly baffling to me and I worked in Big Law for years.
anon
Again, I’m a former biglaw partner turned public company GC and I would never task an attorney on my team with bringing pens for a meeting, whether at the law firm or at my current employer. If one of my subordinates – at the firm or at my current employer – came to me with this story about the pens, there would be a very hard conversation about professional expectations and professional behavior, and it would not be with the associate. It would be with the OP.
Nah
See my initial thought was that if the associate has been a woman and the partner a man, I would have assumed misogyny because no one would ever make this kind of request of a male associate.
Anon
+1
+1
+1. Also a former partner here, and the pens thing is completely bizarre. You don’t ask another lawyer to bring you a pen. Bring your own pen.
Anon
I cant comment on the law specific stuff, but I guess I don’t see a problem with either pen example? I get you outrank him but are you unable to open the box of pens yourself? Why is a 3rd year associate in charge of bringing pens to a meeting?
I work in government where hierarchy and ego are way less important than private sector (my 1 private sector job was miserable due to the obsession with ego there), so maybe this is just a difference in sector?
Anon
Hierarchy is definitely A Thing in law firms, but this is still weird. I don’t recall ever being asked to give a partner a pen at a meeting. To have my own pen and be prepared to take notes, yes, but to be there to hand the partner a pen seems like a weird expectation for an associate.
Anon
I have some clients where officers have to wet-sign documents, so I can see it being a thing. And you’d never do signings with a red pen. If the kid had questions (like he did about sending the document), he should use his words. OP isn’t psychic and can’t anticipate wackadoodle issues with something that IMO should have not been hard or easy to quickly clarify.
anon
The OP didn’t say this was a wet signing, though, and that would have been a pretty critical detail to omit.
Anon
But when he tries to “use his words” by clarifying a document should be sent externally OP complains about that too.
Not saying this is OP, but partners can change directions on a dime. As a third year I also would’ve wanted clarification the doc was good to send externally. Anyone who is saying he was told to do it, he should just do it, has not had a partner screaming at you for going ahead and doing something you expressly were told to do two days before.
Do your conference rooms not already have pens? I’m not getting the pens thing, and I work in T&E where clients come in to sign docs every day. No one has ever had to hunt for a pen, let alone plan ahead to bring any.
Anon
“Anyone who is saying he was told to do it, he should just do it, has not had a partner screaming at you for going ahead and doing something you expressly were told to do two days before.”
Yeah exactly this.
Anonymous
+ 5 million to the “getting screamed at for doing the thing you were specifically told to do.” I now work with the nicest biglaw partners ever so there is no yelling, but sometimes stuff changes in the blink of an eye a the instruction from 16 minutes ago is now “wrong.” I don’t know what conversations/emails have happened between client and partner since I was given the instruction. The partners I work for can’t remember what they ate for lunch, so sometimes they completely forget that they told me to do something yesterday.
No Face
This reminds me of how Ask a Manager used to read.
It is very strange to ask an attorney to bring pens for you, but it also strange that he brought red pens. You are both being weird here.
Failing to send the document is very annoying, I’ll give you that one. If he wanted to CYA, a much better idea is to send an email after your conversation stating “I will send X by 2pm as we discussed,” then do it.
The unauthorized work issue just sounds like standard law firm non-management. You have to actually explain what you want and why to junior associates. The partners and the clients all have different standards and norms. If editing the draft was inappropriate, you have to explain why so the issue is not repeated.
Anon
To answer your question, you need to sit down with this associate and spell out the bigger issue. Directly say – I have concerns about your judgment because of examples A, B, and C. Let’s discuss what happened in each situation so that you can adjust for similar situations that come up in the future.
But to everyone with the pen issue – I do trusts and estates work and meet with several clients a day to sign original documents. My firm (crazily) still does not stock pens on our conference room tables because of still existing covid policies. I can absolutely imagine a situation where I’m going from meeting to meeting and asked my associate to bring the final documents and pens. (My admin is trained to stage the room in advance, but if she’s out for the day?). A third year associate is getting to go to a client meeting? Yes I expect him to do whatever is asked for an opportunity to attend and observe. If this happened to me I would absolutely question why a third year associate in my practice would bring red pens for such an occasion.
Bottom line, let’s assume that OP understands her practice enough to know that red pens in a client meeting is not appropriate; and is something that a third-year associate should know.
Liza
If you reread OP’s post, nothing about it suggests that the meeting was to sign original documents. If it was, why would her comment about the fact that she doesn’t use red pens to mark up his work be relevant? Even if she DID use red pens to edit, red pens would obviously be inappropriate for a signing, and that would be the basis for the critique.
Anonymous
You seem very invested in making OP out to be the villain of her request for advice. You ok bro?
OP
Wow the pen thing was way more controversial than I thought. Fwiw, we were traveling to a client’s site. We couldn’t bring a paralegal/admin, in fact I don’t think I’ve ever been involved in a meeting where the client pays for you to fly your admin with you. Guess y’all have way fancier clients than I do. I asked the associate to double check the materials our paralegal had packed – binders, office supplies etc., and apparently the associate removed all non-red pens from the box and brought only red. I don’t know why, we’re doing dep prep not marking up contracts. We got there, set up, we’re meeting with the client, and as I’m taking notes my pen ran out of ink. The box with the office supplies was on the other side of him so I asked him to hand me another pen out of the box. He handed me a taped-closed box of red pens, which I thought was odd. That’s why I said it’s a silly example, I didn’t like have a come to Jesus with him about his pen choice, I just thought it was odd because it was odd. I guess I shouldn’t have included a silly example because it really derailed this comment!
Anon
Okay there is a lot of detail here that you left out above that is pretty important to assessing the professional judgment of your associate.
Anon
+1
AustinAnon
You have to give the OP some benefit of the doubt that she’s being reasonable in order to not totally derail her question. She can’t share ALL the details.
Anon
“Silly example: I asked him to check the boxes of supplies we needed for a client meeting. He removed all the pens except the red ones. I never use a red pen even when I’m marking up his drafts. When I ask for a pen, he hands me an entire unopened taped-shut box of pens. I have lots of these, I didn’t know I needed to teach you that, moments.”
Much, much clearer picture of what happened, in basically the same number of words.
Anon
The way the question was initially framed made OP sound pretty unreasonable. It’s not weird that people reacted based on the initial framing. If a female associate wrote in here about how the male partner she worked for was mad she only had a red pen to give him in a meeting, people would be tearing him apart.
Anon
Ok that is odd, OP. I would assume if I asked an associate to check supplies the associate would not make unexpected unilateral replacements. (I also would pack pens in my supplies for an offsite meeting, so thanks for this explanation.).
I can’t come up with a reason he would do that, but I suppose you just have to ask, because in all fairness BigLaw is a weird place. Maybe another partner excoriated him for not bringing red pens somewhere? It’s hard to extrapolate when your multiple bosses all have their idiosyncratic preferences and you don’t know what’s expected in any given context.
As examples, as associate we used to keep a chart of who preferred or did not prefer an Oxford comma. My first secretary stapled things in a highly weird way – meaning she would not bring me any document I asked to have printed until a certain stapler was available and she had perfectly set the staple in a certain place – until I asked her about it and she explained that one of her other bosses would only accept documents stapled that way and would throw out all others.
HFB
as a first year associate i had a boss who was super weird about staples and regularly yelled at me for not perceiving his preferred staple method in advance ( it was different every time). i quit that job.
Anon
So in the OP you said you asked him to bring pens to a client meeting and he only brought red, despite the fact that you never use red pens. That’s pretty different from, I asked him to check the boxes of office supplies someone else had prepped for a client meeting, and he removed everything BUT red. The latter is much weirder and is actually worth a conversation/correction in my view, because the pen selection was actually (appropriately) an assistant’s job and the associate (inappropriately) redid the work already done by the assistant, poorly. And what possible reason could there have been for removing blue/black, to save $.80 in shipping costs? It’s much stranger than if he just grabbed a box of pens to take along and chose poorly.
And it actually goes to the same issue as the associate editing the document already edited by someone else – i.e., when someone else completes a task, I don’t need you to change what they’ve done just for the sake of making changes.
Trish
I go to a small privately owed vision center because I love the optometrist. The problem is the selection of glasses is terrible. However, I am afraid that it I take my precription to a chain store, they won’t do as good of a job on the lenses. Am I crazy to be worried? I always feel like if I get the lenses from the same place I had my exam done, I will get better care in ensuring the precription is correct.
Anon8
I always take my prescription from my eye doctor and get frames/lenses elsewhere and I’ve never had a problem. I’ve even found some frames I liked on cheap reading glasses and then sent them away to LensDirect to have the lenses replaced with my prescription. If your eye doctor is small they’re likely sending the frames out to for the lenses anyways.
test run
You can buy frames elsewhere and bring them to your optometrist’s office for the lenses. I’ve done this before when I found cute frames at a fancy boutique. I also brought in some old Warby Parkers (the frames were in great shape but the lenses were shot) to have new lenses put in and was a little sheepish about ordering from there, but she didn’t bat an eye.
Cat
You can buy frames anywhere and have your eye dr do the actual lenses.
FWIW, the pair I got from Warby Parker, pupil-distance-measuring-app and all, is the best vision I’ve ever had with a pair of glasses. I used my (relatively high strength) prescription from the optometrist just fine.
Anon
I have an optometrist, finally, that I love after lots of hit and miss. I am verrry sensitive to my prescription being even slightly off and he takes the time to get it right.
His office is terrible at filling prescriptions (slow, sometimes inaccurate, poor communication), and they’re also terribly expensive . I have resorted to talking my prescriptions from him to an independent optician or, most recently, to Warby Parker!
Senior Attorney
The only thing I have to contribute to this discussion is that my beloved assistant met her wonderful boyfriend of two years when she went to Lens Crafters and he was the optician who helped her pick her glasses.
Trish
Aw! That’s cute!
nuqotw
This is gross: the inside of my nose is chapped. How does that even happen? My lips are not chapped. Also, how do I fix it? I tried moisturizer inside my nose (also gross) and it didn’t help. Whenever I chew or yawn I feel all the little cuts open up again.
Vicky Austin
Owie. What kind of moisturizer? I have no shame about sticking Vaseline up my nose when it’s dry.
nuqotw
Not really sure – lavender scented stuff? I’ll try straight vaseline tonight – thanks!
Vicky Austin
Aquaphor might also be good! Something plain. And you might try doing it last thing before you go to sleep so it has time to settle in.
Anom
We use aquaphor applied via cotton swab for my 10 yo when she starts getting nosebleeds.
pugsnbourbon
Yep, I do the aquaphor + q-tip thing too.
Anon
+1 I apply Aquaphor inside my nose almost all winter long.
Anon
Ha, plus one but I just use my finger instead of wasting a perfectly good q-tip.
Anon
+1000 Aquaphor for anything chapped.
Anon
Could it be a yeast infection instead of dry skin? Maybe dab some antifungal cream in there to see if it clears up.
Anonymous
Vasaline in your nose and run a humidifier.
Anon
+1
Humidify. Especially at night.
This happens to me every winter.
Anon
Aquaphor, and it’s not gross! I’m sorry it hurts but there’s nothing inherently gross about putting ointment into your nostril. It’s your body, your body part, and this is just self care.
nuqotw
I agree there’s nothing inherently gross about it, I meant the sensation of moisturizer in my nose felt specifically gross.
ollie
Saline spray may also help
AustinAnon
If it doesn’t go away after a day or so, see your derm. I had something similar and had to use antibiotic cream.
Anon
Late to post, but this stuff is amazing! The edges of my nostrils split in winter and this stuff heals it overnight. I don’t know how, but it’s great.
https://a.co/d/fECPIiz
Anon
In England, what do Dukes and such actually do? Like is there something in Sussex that Prince Harry would normally be doing if he lived there? I get that it is a constitutional monarchy, but are their lesser jobs within the royalty and I guess people with titles (is that the same as nobility)? Or is it just parties and ribbon cuttings and you get a nice house (but it’s entailed, so it’s not really yours and likely in disrepair)? I’m finally watching Downton Abbey (which is fiction) but now I have questions.
pugsnbourbon
I’m no royal expert, but I think there’s a division between the “working” and “non-working” royals. The working ones have a pretty aggressive appearance schedule – get up at the crack of dawn, get your hair and makeup done and then stand through hours of speeches about opening a rec center. Rinse and repeat.
Anon
Aren’t there some people who have titles but aren’t royalty? Do they do things? Have land holdings to manage? Or are you just a cost center on a hereditary trust?
Also: does any of this have anything to do with the House of Lords (which I get that Sir Elton John and Sir Brian May aren’t in, but someone is still there). I would like to be in the House of Lords (I think — does it include Ladies now?).
Ribena
Generally managing the land and the businesses and properties on it is a full on job now – you see this a bit on Downton Abbey when they’re debating how to manage the cottages and the farmland. The hereditary estates run as businesses to all intents and purposes – so they have HR departments and pension schemes and all of that.
Ribena
But the title is separate from the land, for reasons including inheritance tax and two world wars meaning that lots of heirs died.
anon
Yes. The royal family and the British nobility are not the same thing; many of the noble families have held their titles from much longer than the Windsors have been the royal family, in fact. British nobles who are not royals do all manner of things, from managing and living off of their estates and holdings (big portions of London’s most expensive real estate are actually owned by the Duke of Westminster, for example), to very, very “normal” jobs. The current Earl of Devon (one of the oldest and thus most prestigious earldoms) is a lawyer. The Earl of Portland is a radio actor. And there’s like 40 million barons kicking around – I think most of then have some kind of normal job too.
The House of Lords does include ladies if they hold the title in their own right. IIRC, most of the higher noble titles (duke/marquess/earl/viscount) can be inherited by women. Some of the baronies can, though (long story, has to do with the origins of the concept of barons) and some of the Scottish titles can. The Lords is populated by both hereditary peers (see above) and life peers. Life peers are people who got made barons/baronesses as a result of some kind of distinguished services, and they can’t pass those titles down.
anon
*higher titles canNOT be inherited by women, sorry.
Anon
There are also royal and non-royal dukes, duchesses, earls, etc.
I’m no expert, but some of these non-royal nobility do still hold large amounts of property and administer it, I believe.
Vicky Austin
Generally, no, nothing goes along with being given a dukedom other than the title. The media will make a slightly bigger fuss if Harry and/or Meghan visit Sussex, and that’s it. For non-royal people who have dukedoms (like the duke and duchess of Devonshire) I believe it’s basically the same, except they live there so nobody makes a fuss if they visit.
The exception is Cornwall, which currently belongs to Prince William and is designed to create an income stream for the heir to the throne, and thus does come with some responsibilities for managing the farms, etc. that make it up.
Anon
So you’re basically a landlord? And maybe you have to rent the fancy house out for weddings to help you pay the bills?
Vicky Austin
Not sure where you got landlord? No properties come with the dukedoms awarded within the royal family (except Cornwall). In the case of Devonshire, the house belongs to the family and that’s where they live.
Ribena
The landlord thing is true but doesn’t come with a title necessarily. I’ll share a link to a couple of Big Houses near where I grew up in comments.
Ribena
So firstly Hall Barn which you will recognise from film and tv https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hall_Barn
The house was built by the Wallers, then sold to various nobility as people gained and lost money, and was bought in the 19th century by the 1st Baron Burnham (who interestingly I didn’t know until right now was Jewish).
The estate owns much of the ‘old town’ as a landlord, so people pay their rent to to Lord and Lady Burnham.
More info about the Barony at https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baron_Burnham
Ribena
Another local Big House is the Manor House at Bledlow, family seat of the Carringtons. https://www.historichouses.org/house/the-manor-house-bledlow/visit/
They’re much more traditionally politically active nobility – the father of the present Baron Carrington was among other things Secretary General of NATO. The son of the current Baron is a councillor on the county council (for the Conservatives) – his register of interests goes for pages and pages.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baron_Carrington
Anon
It says: There is no heir to the baronetcy and the barony.
So is there an opening for me? I can be married off or adopted.
Ribena
Well according to who’s who the current Lord Burnham doesn’t appear to be married… so he must be in want of a wife if we trust Mrs Bennet… https://www.ukwhoswho.com/search?q=Burnham%2C+7th+Baron%2C+%28Harry+Frederick+Alan+Lawson%29+%28born+22+Feb.+1968%29
anon
So there are royal dukedoms (like Cornwall, Cambridge, and Sussex) – those generally don’t come with lands (except Cornwall), and are given to the monarch’s children. The non-royal dukedoms are the ones that come with the big estates, which means that a lot (maybe all) of the titleholders largely support themselves by administering those estates. It’s not just big plots of land and fancy houses – a lot of them own commercial property, for example. When you get below the dukedom level, you start to see more peers with regular jobs because the inherited estate may not be commercially viable (or may not really exist anymore as a big thing).
Anon
“Their Noble Lordships” by Simon Winchester is a fascinating read if you like that sort of thing. It’s been absolutely ages since I read it, but I seem to recall that there was a duke or something who was a taxi driver as the title had to travel sideways and down a bit and that’s where it landed.
Anon
I had a suit just like this one from Kasper back in the 90s. I thought I looked like a million bucks.
Anom
Venting. Hate my biglaw job. I’ve struck out this far in getting an in house job, for a multitude of reasons. Obnoxious problem to have, but if I were to go in house, my salary cut would be enough that it’s barely worth the hassle to my family for me to work. My current salary is about 30% of DH’s. So if that gets cut, I’m at 15%, 10%? My entire career is a hedge against disaster. A salve to my need for independence. But not much of an economic contribution to my family, and so much of a drain on our lives. My 7 yo likes to tell people that she doesn’t want to be a lawyer bc she wants to see her children.
Anon
If I were in biglaw and had a kid and made 30% of what my spouse made, I would not be working, period.
Anon
I’m usually on the side of everyone should support themselves but I feel like in this situation, absent a draconian prenup, OP should take a big step back.
Anonymous
I agree.
Anon
This – if you need a postnup get one, but then quit.
No Face
Postnup is smart.
Senior Attorney
Definitely get a postnup, but if you can do that then it makes all kinds of sense to step back.
Anon
I literally can’t even fathom what your husband makes, but if I had the HHI you have and a kid I barely see I’d quit today, get a hobby job and enjoy the time with my family.
anon
Wait so the husband makes like a million dollars?
Liza
At least, given the percentages mentioned.
anon
But the mom’s career is the drain on family life. What a coincidence.
Anon
+ 1. Quit biglaw, but find something else. I too would never want to fully quit working – I’m 100% going to hedge against disaster. But also seems like it’s time for a conversation with your spouse about whose career gets prioritized and whose is a “drain” and a “hassle”. (I get it though, biglaw is a drain no matter what.) How stable is his job? How much does he see the kids?
Anon
Nailed it!
Anon
BigLaw is like that though. IDK what dad does (just is given $ for smiling nicely and playing golf with bigwigs?), but Biglaw wrecked my family life when my family was just one ornery cat.
Liza
Certainly from what you describe you should only work if you want to work, you don’t need to financially. Maintaining independence is reasonable. Though I’m not a big supporter of hedging for the sake of hedging. Is it work making things so much harder on yourself today in the hopes of making things a bit easier down the road in a (hopefully unlikely) worst case scenario? Especially since if you step out of the workforce now, that’s not to say you can never get back in.
That said, if you want to keep working, there are lots of options for lawyers that are closer to 9-5 regular hours. Certainly in house, but also smaller law firms, govt work, part time BigLaw, etc. Are you interested in anything like that?
Cat
Have you considered something like an Axiom to keep your hand in? Take projects, take time between projects, that’s how it works…
Vicky Austin
What do you *want* to do? It sounds like, for now, you have enough of a safety net that you can spend time figuring out the answer to that. Maybe you’ll discover a different interest that you can turn into a career to hedge against disaster. Or something you can do part-time for now and increase to full-time if you ever need to.
Anon
Srsly — if you’re credentialed enough to be in BigLaw and don’t need to work, you could do something to actually help people like teach at a community college or help people navigate immigration courts or tax appeals pro bono.
Anon
+1
Yeah, in this scenario if I was the OP I would not stop working, but would think about what would give me satisfaction every day. Do you want to stay in law? If so, are there things that you could that might be incredibly satisfying that use your amazing legal expertise to help and make a huge difference in people’s lives.
You are incredibly lucky to have financial freedom. Free yourself!!! You’ll have more time for family too. Sounds wonderful!
But don’t quit. You never know….
Anonymous
If you quit, get a post-nup before you do it.
Anonymous
Why not just…do something else? You clearly don’t need the money. Open a cafe! Invest in real estate. Whatever. Just because you are a trained lawyer doesn’t mean you have to be one until you die. Pick another way to spend your days.
And get a post nup.
Anonymous
Listen to your kid, lady.
No Face
In your shoes, I honestly would just quit and take my sweet time finding the next thing.
No Face
More reasonable comment, I work at a small law firm filled with people who quit larger firms. We do great work, but we also actually enjoy our lives. I have the “hedge against disaster” and engaging work, but I am almost never stressed.
Anonymous
Woah, if one of my kids said that I’d be taking a big fat look at life.
Hang a shingle. Work part time. Look for another type of work or investment. Spend time with your family while you have them.
I just took yesterday off and spent Sunday and Monday skiing with my oldest. My dad was a work-a-holic and told me when I got married that it’s his biggest regret. DH and I have modeled our lives to be home much, much more than any of our parents ever were. We both work, but we do not live to work.
anon
It makes zero sense to stay in a biglaw job you hate when you don’t need the money. Doubly so if you have a child who would like to see you. Personally, I didn’t stay in a biglaw job I loved when I didn’t need the money and my family needed more of my time. I miss it, but I don’t want my life to turn into the song Cat’s in the Cradle.
Could you meet your need for a hedge and for independence by working part-time, either in big law (which is just less intense hours and often less interesting work) or in house? Or, if you have a lot in liquid assets, look at that as a hedge?
Anon
There are definitely other reasons to work besides being an economic contribution to your family. Find a job you like better. If your husband makes 3 x your big law salary, your family is going to be just fine.
Anon NYC
+1. I still work (part time) and my husband makes more than OP’s husband makes. But my job is significantly more stable than my husband’s, and I also like my job and like working. In OP’s case, I would quit immediately (or at least ramp down to part time) and take my time finding something with significantly less hours.
Explorette
I think you need to reframe this situation. If your husband makes that much money, you shouldn’t be comparing your salary to his at all, or worrying about your economic contribution to the family. And that’s not why you are working, so why think of it in those terms? That is setting you up for negative thoughts. You want to work because you enjoy having your own work and life outside the family. And you want to keep a career in case your marriage ends and you don’t want to be out of the workforce and scrambling to get back in. So what can you do differently to meet those goals? Reduce your FTE at your current firm? Switch to a smaller firm? Do contract work?
Anon
This is the only comment that really nails it.
Anon
I would look into options like Axiom, Beacon Hill Legal, LegalPeople, and Major Lindsay Africa.
Also government, adjunct teaching, etc.
If you go this route, consider a post nup and ensure that your husband has life insurance and disability insurance that are not tied to his work.
Anon
Can you lean way out and get a 9-5 or even part-time job? Personally, I would not be comfortable stepping out of the workforce completely, both because of future risk and also because I think earning $0 would negatively affect my marriage (I’m the one who prioritizes luxuries like vacations and we joke in earnest that my pitiful salary is our vacation fund). But working a job that’s 9-5 on paper and in practice often more like 10-3 is the right balance that allows me plenty of family time while still earning money and maintaining a connection the workforce that I could ramp back up in the event of divorce or disability on the part of my husband.
And I know it’s hard to hear comments like these from your kids, but when she’s older she will appreciate everything you did. I was a total brat about my mom’s career as a kid (especially as a tween and teen) and now I’m so proud of her and in awe of everything she accomplished both professionally and with her family.
nuqotw
How would you feel about being a low-key solo, i.e. do only cases you really want to do at a rate that makes sense for you and refer others to colleagues you trust if you don’t want the case/can’t agree on the money? (You would have to do some marketing though.)
Spouse is a lawyer (never big law) and my salary was ~3x his when he burned out at a non-profit (contested family law often with adjacent criminal cases) and decided to try going solo instead of looking for a new job. (It’s worth noting the magnitude of our salaries is very different from the magnitude yours/your husband’s salary so his goal was not to be low-key per se.) There was a low-key start up period – and he could have stayed there if he’d wanted to. He knows which legal work he just doesn’t want to do so he doesn’t do it – DUIs, contested family law, jury trials, anything that he anticipates being emotionally draining – and seems fairly content.
Anon
Quit your job asap and look for something part time or contract /consultant work.
Newbie
Long-time lurker posting for the first time. I am strongly considering divorce – my husband’s and my goals and wants for the future just aren’t compatible anymore, and I’m not sure I want to remain married; I’d rather have full control over my finances and freedom over the rest of my life decisions. We have been married 10 years. No children. We live in NJ. We don’t own a home. No debt. Compensation-wise, I make approximate 2/3 of what my husband makes.
I’m confused on the order of the next steps. When to move out, when to separate finances, when to get a lawyer. And the details – how far away can/should I move?
Thank you in advance. I get that this is a weird first post, but I wasn’t really sure whom to ask.
anon
Talk to a lawyer first, and since there are no kids you can move anywhere you want.
Anon
I’m sorry to hear about the divorce (if you’re sad about it).
Talk to a lawyer first. They’ll instruct you on all the other particulars in your post.
Anon
First step: speak to an attorney. Ensure that you have a bank account with only your name on it. Do everything your lawyer says to do.
Anon
+1
Open a bank account.
Find an attorney.
Think about where you want to live.
Good luck. Congrats on making this decision.
Senior Attorney
This.
My husband, the divorce lawyer, says “take ALL the cash and let it sort itself out when the case settles,” and I think that’s good advice. When I left my former husband I very scruptulously took exactly half and I ended up wishing I’d taken more because I was the one who had all the expenses of setting up a new household. And at the end of the day he actually ended up writing me a big check to buy me out of the house and I sure could have used some of that money in the interim.
Anon
This feels unnecessarily antagonistic in a situation where both people are behaving like rational adults. I know you came from a history of abuse, which is maybe different.
But if my ex husband decided he didn’t want to be married anymore because he decided our goals weren’t the same and then totally drained the bank account leaving me with $0 — wow what an unfair situation. I’m not saying to take half to the penny or something (take what you need), but taking everything without other factors is just such an f-you.
Anon
+1 this is a terrible way to treat someone who is a fine person who you just don’t want to be married to anymore. Obviously different in cases of abuse, etc.
Anonymous
Talk to an attorney first before touching any joint money !! There was a post from a divorce lawyer a few months ago and she warned against that.
Anonymous
You can move wherever you want. Call a lawyer first.
Anonymous
Get a lawyer now and ask them all of these questions. But with no kids, I don’t see any reason you have to stay close. You may need to file in your current state and even if you can file in another state that would be kind of an awful thing to do.
Anon8
I ultimately didn’t end up getting divorced, but when I was on the brink I read The Optimist’s Guide to Divorce, which was helpful for these types of questions I had.
Anon
I’m so curious about how you went to the brink of divorce and came back from it. I understand you might not want to share specifics, but if you have anything more you can share I would love to hear.
Anon
I think it’s fine to get divorced but I’d caution you to be sure this isn’t an issue of you not wanting to compromise. My bf and I have very different goals, finances, lifestyle, and expectations, etc. I make a lot more than him because I like nice things, etc. but we make it work. Have you tried couples counseling or individual counseling?
That being said, before everyone gangs up on me, if you are 100% sure you want a divorce, when is your lease up? If you move out, will you be on the hook for your new apartment and your half of the current lease? If so, can you afford it? Are you expecting alimony? I’d look at the rental market in your area and consult with a divorce attorney. Also, use your own credit card to pay the attorney, not a shared account.