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Updated: Apr 24, 2019 452 Comments · by

Wednesday’s Workwear Report: Tweed Fringe Shift Dress

The Personal Shopper (TPS) |

This post may contain affiliate links and Corporette® may earn commissions for purchases made through links in this post. As an Amazon Associate, I earn from qualifying purchases.

Our daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices. I always love a dress for the office that has just one or two details to elevate it beyond your classic sheath dress for work. The pretty tweed fringe at the neckline here is different enough but not so crazy that the dress isn't just as versatile as your basic black dress. At first I thought the dress was a nubby silk but it's 100% cotton, which I suspect will be really airy in summer. It's $149-$169, available in four size ranges (regular, plus, petites and petites plus) at Talbots. Tweed Fringe Shift Dress Looking for something more affordable? Talbots has something similar on sale for $129, and this dress at Lord & Taylor is down to $74 and comes in sizes 0-16. PSA: It's Administrative Professionals' Day! Here's our previous coverage. This post contains affiliate links and Corporette® may earn commissions for purchases made through links in this post. For more details see here. Thank you so much for your support! Seen a great piece you’d like to recommend? Please e-mail [email protected].

Sales of note for 8.30.24

  • Nordstrom – Summer Sale, save up to 60%
  • Ann Taylor – 30% off full-price purchase; $99 jackets, dresses & shoes; extra 50% off sale
  • Banana Republic Factory – 50-70% off everything + extra 20% off
  • Bergdorf Goodman – Final Days Designer Sale, up to 75% off; extra 20% off sale
  • Boden – 20% off
  • Brooks Brothers – Extra 25% off clearance
  • Eloquii – Up to 60% off everything; extra 60% off all sale
  • J.Crew – 40% off sitewide; extra 60% off sale styles
  • J.Crew Factory – Extra 20% off orders $125+; extra 60% off clearance; 60%-70% off 100s of styles
  • Lo & Sons – Summer sale, up to 50% off (ends 9/2)
  • Madewell – Extra 40% off sale; extra 50% off select denim; 25% off fall essentials
  • M.M.LaFleur – Save 25% sitewide
  • Rothy's – End of season sale, up to 50% off
  • Spanx – Lots of workwear in the big sale, some up to 70% off
  • Talbots – 25% off regular-price purchase; 70% off clearance
  • White House Black Market – Up to 70% off sale

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Comments

  1. Anon

    Anyone have good suggestions for an overnight bag for my baby? I have the diaper bag, but it’s definitely not big enough for occasional travel and taking a suitcase for him seems like overkill!

    • Houda

      No recommendations, but I am cooing at the idea of a baby suitcase… but then I like everything that comes in a mini size

    • Anon

      I’ve always just put my toddlers stuff in my suitcase. I don’t think you need a separate bag, at least until they’re asking for their own suitcase.

    • anne-on

      I really like the Lo&Sons small catalina for 2-3 day trips for me, and have totally packed it for short trips for my son. The separate bottom compartment I can see being really useful for dirty/wet clothing when stuck in a proper wet bag. They usually also do a mother’s day sale if you can hold out.

    • Cb

      I would just pack it in with my stuff or use a gym bag? I have one from Timbuk2 which has a wet compartment which is sometimes helpful.

    • lawsuited

      Any overnight bag that would work for you should work for baby. Although their clothes are smaller, I pack a lot more for my baby than I would including some pretty bulky stuff like diapers and pack n play bedding. I have a nylon Kate Spade overnight bag that I like.

    • Anonymous

      We went ahead and bought a toddler backpack. Obviously they can’t use it now, but we used it when he was a baby and now it’s his backpack and he can carry it.

    • Quail

      We usually just bring whatever bag we normally would and split/include the kid’s stuff with ours. Packing cubes have been very helpful in keeping everyone’s things separate and organized. Or pack individual full outfits in a gallon Ziploc so it’s easy to pull out a change (we did this a lot for a baby, less as kiddo grew older). He does have a toddler backpack now which is his “carryon” and is less about him actually carrying anything useful and is more about him being super cute and feeling like he’s helping.

    • Pretty Primadonna

      My child’s things get packed in the smallest of my 3-piece nesting luggage set when she travels. She has used it so much that she thinks it is hers and refers to it that way.

    • Anonymous

      Definitely do not use a separate suitcase, as then one parent will be stuck towing a suitcase with each hand and the other will have only one hand free to wrangle the baby. If you absolutely need a separate bag, use a duffel or gym bag that you can sling over your shoulder.

    • Delta Dawn

      I got a small rolling suitcase for each of my kids– the “Zoo” one by Skip Hop. We have the dog and giraffe. They are good for a long weekend but not for a longer trip. It’s far smaller than would be big enough for an adult to pack for a weekend, but it’s plenty of room for a little one’s things (although while still in diapers I’d also bring the diaper bag). The real appeal of them is by the time the kid is 2, and really wants to roll his/her own suitcase, these are a great size for that. My almost 4 year old still loves his.

    • Anon.

      Put stuff in your suitcase/bag and travel as minimalistically as you can.

      I have traveled 8 times by myself from US to Europe with my son aged 1-3 years old, for 10+ days, but I have NEVER taken a separate suitcase for him. If you have a washing machine available at your destination, take 5-7 outfits for yourself and a maximum of 5 days worth of outfits for the baby. Buy baby items like diapers, lotions, shampoo at the destination if you can (or have your hosts get this for you in advance). Take travel sizes of everything.
      I always take spare outfits rolled up in ziploc bags in my backpack (leggings, tunic, underpants, socks for myself; 1-3 spare outfits for kid, diapers if needed). Also, a small cosmetics bag (tooth brush, sanitizer, moisturizer, wipes, hygiene items), in case the kid spills something on me.

      We have a small backpack for my son now that he’s older, but it’s for his things – pencils, paper, stickers, books, headphones/iPod, cars, snacks.

    • Anonymous

      I use an LL Bean tote for overnight stuff. It’s big enough to throw in diapers, cups/plates, clothes, toys, books, really everything we need.

  2. Houda

    Yesterday, I wore a Hermes twilly around the neck and a colleague commented whether I was bringing him lunch and which airline I was working for?
    I did not answer and continued having lunch and he tried to explain the joke a bit more and it fell flat in front of everyone at the lunch table. Many other colleagues commented how lovely my scarf was.
    Today, I am wearing another breathtaking Hermes scarf, a proper 90×90 and rocking it. A stranger stopped me in the street to compliment me.
    Mean part that I need to get off of my system: I am proud of myself for not reacting and calling him out on 1- not knowing that air attendants wear a tied square not a twilly, so ya he is probably not well traveled and that 2- He didn’t realise it is a delicate piece of hand painted silk as he only wears cheap polyester.. bam
    OK off my virtual high horse, there I said it, I feel better – at least I got my revenge online and kept my composure live

    • Anonymous

      You got your revenge live by keeping your composure while the joke fell flat.

    • Anon

      “1 – not knowing that air attendants wear a tied square not a twilly, so ya he is probably not well traveled”

      Lol wut?!? I’m extremely well-traveled and I couldn’t begin to tell you the difference between these things or anything else about flight attendant fashion. You’re really feeling smug about this? This is one of the weirdest posts I’ve ever seen here.

      • LaurenB

        Well, I do think she should feel properly proud / smug that the way she dealt with a rude, dismissive comment was simply to let it hang in the air until it fell flat with a thud. That’s the only proper way to handle things like that – if she had been all “what? this is an Hermes scarf, do you know how much these things cost?” she would have come across poorly, but there was real power in her silence.

          • Cat

            Yeah I agree with this. Great to let the joke fall flat on its own stupidity, but the judgment that the guy must not be well traveled because he doesn’t pay attention to the specific scarf style/knot typically used by flight attendants is…… bizarre to me.

          • Anonymous

            It made sense to me. He was trying to tease her as if she had accidentally dressed like a flight attendant (as if she had misread and misapplied some fashion conventions), but he actually showed a pretty shallow grasp of the conventions himself.

      • Not even kidding, ok maybe a little

        this is a weird post? I can’t even tell which tights have fleece and which don’t.

        • Houda

          I can’t tell the tights either I guess. This is my way of making him small in my head, feel free to gloss over the post, I just needed to do something petty outside of work

      • Houda

        I am feeling smug yes. And as per my post: it feels good to say petty things a day later in a forum than to his face.

      • anon

        What she’s saying is that she’s proud of herself from refraining from pointing that out to him as a retort– basically, refraining from sarcastically putting him in his place. Not that she’s proud of herself for knowing it, per se. At least, that’s how I read it.

        Houda is a long-time poster who has always seemed, to me at least, humble and charitable (and well dressed). I doubt she’d *actually* look down on anyone for not knowing how flight attendants tie their scarves.

        • Houda

          Thank you. Very kind of you. I’m glad most people got the spirit behind the post.

        • Pretty Primadonna

          Yes, this. Thank you! And I am neither well-traveled nor knowledgeable about the difference between square-tied and a twilly, but I laughed at your (in your head) calling out the guy for these things.

      • lawsuited

        +1 I don’t think your colleague actually mistook you for a flight attendant. Many flight attendants don’t even wear scarves around their necks. His (stupid) joke was because you resembled his impression of a flight attendant. The polyester vs. silk distinction was definitely played no part in it.

      • Anonymous

        I’ve gotten the flight attendant joke thing before when wearing a scarf and I didn’t really think anything of it. I understand you were offended but it seems silly to me. And smug that you need to point out it was Hermes.

      • Anonymous

        Seriously we’ve ALL felt this way about something. Vent away, Houda!

        Like when my stepdad tries to mansplain something about my niche practice to me – and he’s totally wrong. Believe me, what is running through my head is all the ways I could completely eviscerate everything he’s saying and make him feel like the small little man I think he is. But I’m there to spend time with my mom, not to put some idiotic know it all in his place. So I sit silently (ahem, sipping my wine) until he runs out of steam and then proceed to ask mom about how her tulips are coming along this year. And then I vent to a friend over drink about what a stupid jerk that guy is.

    • anne-on

      You rock it! I collect and wear Hermes scarves allll the time for work (I don’t worry about losing them in a hotel room like I would jewelry and I like the pop of color by my face). I will say that women (and men!) often compliment them but women will note they don’t feel comfortable wearing scarves. I think it tends to read more formal/older, which is fine by me! For what its worth, I also have sensitive skin prone to itchies and a lovely silk scarf inside a blazer keeps those at bay (and can be surprisingly warm!).

    • Anonymous

      Houda I love this. And I wish I could see these scarves!! And your outfits generally.

      • Houda

        I go for colorways in the yellow, marigold, mustard etc. as they suit my coloring
        Yesterday’s twilly is Les Voitures A Transformation in the Green/Yellow/Grey colorway work with an Ecru blouse and black pencil skirt
        Today’s scarf is Jaguar Quetzal scarf 90 in the Yellow/Black/Gold work with a chartreuse silk blouse and a black pencil skirt

        • Ouch! That hurts

          Houda, I was just gifted three formerly loved Hermes. For the life of me, I cannot follow how to fold the large square one. Seems like a lot of volume. Thoughts? Ideas? A box of scarf tying cards was also enclosed – still I’m at a loss. I am working up to using the plisse mini-pleated one because it is smaller. And there is an oblong one, very long and rather wide.

          But I’d really like to know how you style the square one. It’s a Ruban de Cheval.

          Also, what about wrinkling and scrunching the scarves? It’s ok? Tie gently?

          I’m nearly paralyzed but so eager to do this “right.” I am an old, so never thought I would have these.

          • Anon

            Not houda but one way I like square scarves is inside the lapels of a jacket, not tied. So just fold in half diagonally, put it around your neck with the point in the back, and slip your jacket on over it.

            It gives a nice layer of color and pattern between jacket and blouse.

          • anne-on

            My favorite blogger for scarf tips is Mai Tai collection:
            https://maitaicollection.com/pages/tutorials

            I am also not precious about my scarves once I bought a few of the overdyed ones – Hermes literally washes them in a machine with dye and then gently dries them on low. If they can do it and resell them then I can gently dry mine on low to de-wrinkle it and refresh it!

          • Idea

            Silk scarves generally do not wrinkle. They may need to be steamed, but they won’t hold a wrinkle like, say, khaki pants hold that seam down the front.

          • Ouch! That hurts

            ALL great ideas… Now I’m gaining confidence, esp with just laying between a dress and a jacket. And not worrying about wrinkling!

    • Go for it

      Houda, best ever! I admire you taking the high road on this ~ and sharing the truth of how it made you feel ~ awesome ~ in a context that makes sense.

    • Anonymous

      How can our colleagues wear polyester and we have to wear upscale clothing? (this is just asking)

    • Ribena (formerly Hermione)

      I’m very jealous of your scarves. After seeing the RBG biopic I’ve been craving scarves to tie around my ponytail – did find a huge variety in H&M at the weekend so I went slightly credit-card-happy and today have a green patterned scarf on my ponytail.

      • Anonymous

        IMO the twilly is perfect for this.

        There is also a maxi-twilly size that works so much better for me than any other decorative scarf.

      • emeralds

        I saw a student with a big floofy scarf around her ponytail this morning while I was walking to work, and thought “dang that looks adorable”!

    • BabyAssociate

      Ugh to that guy and yay to you! I recently started wearing scarves everyday (mix of Ferragamo and Hermes) and am loving them, such a great way to add some color and individuality. I still need to get a twilly though!

    • Anon

      Has anybody of you from the UK tried any of the scarves from Furious Goose? I really like the four letter word ones (yup, I’m immature), but the price is a little uncomfortable without knowing they’re fantastic.

  3. Texas Attorney

    Can anyone recommend a cute walking shoe that’s not a traditional tennis shoe? I’m going to NYC and I know I’m going to be walking a ton. Looking for something a little fashionable, but obviously comfortable. Preferably closed toe. TIA!!

  4. Anonymous

    Any favorite news and pop culture blogs people can recommend? I feel like I’m in a rut.

  5. Anon

    Remember that discussion on here several months ago about when it’s no longer appropriate to bring your male children into the women’s bathroom? I was in the bathroom at work yesterday when a woman came in with her 8 or 9-year-old son. That struck me as positively bizarre since it’s a secure building (24/7 security) in the financial district (i.e., well traveled with professionals) in broad daylight. It’s one thing if we’re talking about a sketchy gas station at 2 am, but is it really a thing to bring not-so-young boys into office bathrooms like that? I’m really having trouble understanding the thinking there – the only thing I can come up with is maybe the boy had a disability that isn’t visible, but that seems kind of unlikely. It struck me as inappropriate and disrespectful to the women on my floor, including me, who have a reasonable expectation of privacy when they use the (locked) women’s bathroom, but I didn’t feel comfortable speaking up.

    • Anon

      I think a lot of disabilities aren’t super visible actually, so I’d really try not to judge. I confess I don’t really get the expectation of privacy thing though. Are you not in a stall? Doesn’t that give you plenty of privacy? There are plenty of mixed gender/unisex bathrooms in NYC – do you avoid all of them? Locker rooms are a different story but I don’t get the big deal about sharing a bathroom with a boy/man as long as you’re in a stall.

      • Anonymous

        The stall doesn’t really provide much privacy. I have had boys look under or around stall dividers into my stall multiple times.

          • Anon

            I have. I’m ok with moms bringing their kids into the women’s room but I don’t love it when they misbehave like that.

        • Anon

          That doesn’t happen very often. It’s never happened to me or any of my close girlfriends (I know because we’ve discussed this issue). And if it does, the problem is the child’s behavior, not the child’s gender. I’d scream if anyone – male or female – stuck their head in my stall. And then have words with the child’s mother. But I see that as a “misbehaving kid” thing not a “boy in the women’s bathroom” thing.

          • Anonymous

            The problem is that most of these misbehaving kids are boys whose mothers bring them into women’s restrooms. I have observed a distinct correlation between not teaching your child to behave and thinking your school-aged boy is a poor delicate flower who needs to come into the ladies’ room with you.

        • lawsuited

          FWIW, it would be a lot easier to instruct a 7 year old not to do that than to instruct a 2 year old (who most people would agree could/should come into the women’s washroom if she’s the only available parent), so I think this particular concern diminishes as the age of the kids increases.

          • Anonymous

            Not if the 7-year-old has the type of disability that apparently justifies bringing him into the ladies’ room.

        • Anon

          I’ve never had a boy do that but have had little girls. I’m any event it’s a parenting fail to let that happen. And I don’t think it’s fair to say no young boys allowed ever because a few parents let their kids run wild. FWIW I suspect the parents who let their kids look under stalls would ignore any such blanket rules against boys in the bathroom anyways.

          I wish we could move to gender neutral bathrooms everywhere with stalls with proper doors. I am so sick of conversations about who can use what restroom. Also sick of men’s rooms without changing tables.

        • Anonymous

          +100000000 to this. Rarely have I been in a public women’s room where young boys come in (8 and under, but I’m not an expert on guessing children’s ages) and they don’t run or look under stall doors. If boys came in and were well behaved, I don’t have a problem with it. Let me use the bathroom in peace!

      • Anonymous

        I have never seen a mixed gender/unisex bathroom that wasn’t a whole lockable room.

          • Anon

            My college dorm had one bathroom for everyone with multiple stalls. Admittedly, everyone who lived on the floor new each other but I regularly ran into my hallmates’ random hook-ups (male and female) in the bathroom. Pretty sure a drunk college boy could do a lot more harm to me than a prepubescent boy. This was almost 20 years ago, fwiw.

          • Anon

            Where in New York? I live in the city, see a ton of single room unisex bathrooms, but have never seen a mixed gender bathroom with stalls like you have in single-sex bathrooms.

          • Anon

            I think The Smith was the first to do this but I now see the set up a lot of places where there are stalls with proper doors with toilets and a shared sink area.

      • Anon

        I’m the OP and I do not use multistall mixed-sex bathrooms, but I do use single-toilet unisex bathrooms. I have heard the same from many, many women both in real life and online.

      • Anon

        The stalls don’t provide much privacy. You can look under or around stalls, and almost all bathroom stalls I’ve been in have a gap between the door and wall so that you can basically see straight through if you are trying.

        • Never too many shoes...

          Is this honestly a thing that people expend mental energy on – wondering if someone might catch a glimpse of them sitting through the gap between the door and the wall? Because that is just what you would see, someone sitting.

          I note that the gap is there when it is just women in the bathroom too, does that also bother you?

          • Anonymous

            It actually does bother me. I would honestly prefer single-sex bathrooms with no gaps in the dividers.

          • Anon

            Don’t be obtuse. No one wants a peeping Tom the moment they’re changing a tampon or throwing up because of morning sickness.

          • Anon

            At anon at 10:50, I think the point is that a woman would also be a peeping Tom to use your wording.

          • Anon

            Yes, to be 100% clear, I want neither women nor men (and especially not men) looking through the crack during a time when I need privacy. Why is that hard to comprehend? We just had a post about how someone here won’t even let her SO see her feminine hygiene products on the counter in their shared bathroom at home and you’re acting like it’s unreasonable for women to not want strangers to have a direct line of sight when she’s actually using them?

          • Annonnnn

            I don’t think we can paint all women with the same broad brush on either side. I don’t care at all about the gaps or sharing a bathroom with men or boys, even if I am changing a tampon or throwing up. Boys need to know how that S works too and it’s on their parents if they see something they shouldn’t. Then again, I have no problem squatting behind a car door or peeing in the woods with other people within sighting distance. I have no modesty apparently!

          • Anon

            Is it really that hard to understand that some women might be more modest than you are, and therefore, be uncomfortable with things you aren’t uncomfortable with?

            I don’t expect all women to share my level of modesty, but that’s not an invitation to diss me for being modest and having boundaries. In fact, it’s a rather jerk response.

          • Anon

            You are also being prejudiced against religious women, including Christians, Jews, Muslims, and probably others, who often have specific prohibitions against sharing private spaces such as bathrooms, locker rooms, etc. with men. Are you saying that they should just get over it and deal with boys peeping through the cracks? I’m not even suggesting that the boys are perverts, but that it’s natural for kids to be curious or for their eyes to get caught by motion within a stall. That is natural and normal for them to be observant, but that is why the women’s bathroom is not the appropriate place to bring them.

          • Anon

            I’m unfamiliar with the Bible verse that demands that women pee only in spaces where men are not permitted.

    • Anon

      Is it possible that she had access to the women’s room but not the men’s room?

      • Anonymous

        Locked restrooms in an already secure building are one of my pet peeves. What is the point of limiting access to the restrooms after you’ve already limited access to the building? At meetings, it’s super awkward to have to ask someone to escort you to the restroom.

        • Anon

          +1 I hate having to ask for a key. It’s so awkward. And disrupts the meeting unnecessarily

    • Anonymous

      Ugh yeah, I saw my almost ten year old nephew follow his mom into the ladies room last weekend and I immediately said to myself “he is way too old to be doing that.” I get that moms are worried about safety l, but why does it always fall on women’s shoulders do deal with it if they’re worried about men? It’s sonunfair. Your son doesn’t have to go to the men’s room, but I don’t want him in my bathroom.

      • Anon

        You realize if the kid doesn’t go to the men’s room and doesn’t go into the women’s room, he’s likely to go on the floor right? You’re an adult. You can handle a child in a restroom for a couple minutes.

      • anon

        If the kid doesn’t have to go into the men’s room, what option is left? Ten is probably too old to go into a women’s restroom, but your post doesn’t make a whole lot of sense. Family bathrooms are a good solution but it’s not like every place makes those available.

      • Pompom

        Don’t we all share bathrooms with various people at home? Is it mixed genders that bothers us so? Or strangers? Genuinely curious.

        • Anon

          I have no idea, this is so mind-boggling to me. I don’t know any women in real life that would hesitate to use a mixed gender multi-stall bathroom. It’s not like you can even see anything when a woman is sitting on a toilet. Her top is fully clothed and her bottom is pretty well-hidden from view. I would’t want to parade around fully naked in front of a strange 8 year old boy, but I honestly wouldn’t care if a preteen boy watched me pee.

          • Anonymous

            Except that jumpsuits have made comebacks, so that’s not true, even in offices.

          • Anon

            “I don’t know any women in real life that would hesitate to use a mixed gender multi-stall bathroom. ”

            Me, but you don’t know me in real life.

        • Anon

          Both. We have had to get over that we will share restrooms with strangers of the same gender but adding another level of stranger (opposite/different gender) to the mix, especially strangers who are not (yet) great at social norms, makes accepting a situation more difficult when we’re already feeling vulnerable.

        • Anon

          Well, I wouldn’t be upset about this personally but it’s disingenuous to say it’s the same as home. We don’t use stall toilets with big gaps at home. We have an actual door that closes and I don’t bring my teenage kids in with me while I’m doing my business.

          • Anon

            An 8, 9, or 10 year old child is very far from a “teenage kid.” If the child in question were a teenager, the mother would obviously not have the safety concerns that she has about 1) leaving her child unattended while she uses the restroom and/or 2) allowing the child to go into the men’s restroom alone.

          • Anonymous

            Yes — if I had only stall-type doors on my bathroom at home, my house would probably have AirBNB potential and people would trek to the most remote bathroom and only use it.

      • Eh

        Where in the samhill do you want him to go, then? Do you have the same attitude towards all-gender restrooms? How is this any different than a unisex restroom, which is quite quite common in most large cities now? Do you discriminate against a male who identifies as female the same way you are discriminating against a minor male child (and his mother, against whom you are also discriminating)?

        • Anon

          JFC, it’s not “discriminating” against males to have female-only bathrooms FOR PROTECTION AGAINST MALES. I can’t even right now.

          • Anon

            +1.

            I’m gobsmacked that these allegedly smart, educated women are too busy screaming about the oppression of (checks notes) men instead of taking to heart what an above poster said about women having to be the ones to yield to everyone else’s comfort.

            My comfort matters.

          • Rainbow Hair

            Kids get to exist out in the world. They don’t have to stay at home. Even kids with special needs. Kids have to go to the bathroom, like all humans. For a variety of reasons (best known to the kids’ caregivers), many kids need help in the bathroom. This mom determined her kid needed her with him while he went to the bathroom. Let’s assume no one has evil motives and it is what it is: a parent making the determination that this is what is best for her kid. What should she do? I guess she could take him to the mens room but that seems to violate more social norms.

            Of course your comfort matters. So does hers. So does her kid’s. Should your feminism require mothers of sons to stay home because their son needing to go to the bathroom might make someone uncomfortable? Only mothers of sons past a certain age who may need help with toileting? Can you send your 5 year old daughter to a baseball game with her dad or do the dudes potentially made uncomfortable in the bathroom if he takes her in trump?

            It’s not ideal. I love when I find myself in a woman-only space, I really do. And heck, I wish all public restrooms were those one-person rooms. But public spaces are public and sometimes that means sharing them with someone who wouldn’t be your first choice — in this case, the mother of a kid who needs her help toileting.

          • anonymous

            “I’m gobsmacked that these allegedly smart, educated women are too busy screaming about the oppression of (checks notes) men instead of taking to heart what an above poster said about women having to be the ones to yield to everyone else’s comfort.’

            Lol sure– the entire point of this whole stupid thread is to produce a bunch of posts you could misconstrue to be ‘gobsmacked’ about.

          • anon

            Give me one example of someone “screaming about the oppression of men” in this thread.

    • Anonymous

      There could be several reasons that she decided to bring her kid in the bathroom with her. An 8 year old boy is much less likely to interrupt you by crawling under a stall, peeking through the door, or holding a running commentary on the sights and sounds of the restroom than a younger child. If someone was pumping or changing or something in the common area, as a parent, I’d try to hustle my kid out of there. But for normal restroom activities that occur in a private stall, I’d think that everyone’s privacy was pretty protected. And ho

    • Houda

      I’d assume the child has a disability, and you are right, it is not your place to speak up, God knows what this person had going on: could be a misjudgment, but could also be her only option

    • tesyaa

      I have a child with special needs who does not look obviously disabled unless you get into a conversation with him. Please try to have more empathy for people whose situations may not be the same as your own!

      • Anonymous

        This is why (1) every place that has a restroom should have a family/caregiver assistance restroom and (2) people who don’t need that restroom should not ever use it so it is available for those who actually need it. Or even better, build unisex restrooms where the stalls have actual privacy (dividers that go all the way down to the floor, no gaps around the door) and the sinks are shared. That would get eliminate all gender-related bathroom issues and probably be safer for everyone.

        Women shouldn’t be put in the position of having to give up our own rights to protect others’ rights. There should not need to be a tradeoff.

        • Nope

          What right are you giving up when a male is in “your” restroom? There is no right to a single-gender restroom. That’s evidenced by the many, many unisex restrooms across the country. What about the woman who is mother to a minor child that she is not comfortable leaving unattended? (For whatever reason– the child’s age, the public environment, potential special needs of the child, etc.) That woman has rights as well. Why is your right to use a restroom under your preferred conditions more important than her right to take care of her child? (Spoiler: it’s not.)

          • Anonymous

            I have a right not to be looked at by boys or men while I am going to the bathroom, just as men have a right not to be looked at by girls or women while going to the bathroom.

            Accessibility means granting people access to places where they have a right to be. That means giving disabled boys access to the men’s room. Not the women’s room.

          • Anon

            How does one grant a boy who needs help using the restroom access to a men’s room if he’s out with his mother? Serious question.

      • Anonymous

        Me, too. My son is 13 and his disability is not apparent until you try to talk with him. If dad’s not around my only option would be to bring him in with me when the bathroom is empty and then warn people at the door or wait til the men’s room is empty and wait for him outside the men’s room door while he goes to the bathroom.

        Generally, I hope if people see me doing either of these they will cut me/him some slack because as a parent it’s not something you’re that happy about and you’re just trying to get through your day. I think we all need to be a little easier on eachother.

    • Anon

      Boys get assaulted in bathrooms. If I had to balance risks, I would probably bring my 8 year old into the bathroom rather than sending him into the men’s restroom.

      Before everybody clutches their pearls…I use family bathrooms or make my kids go at home before we leave, so I haven’t brought him into a women’s bathroom in years. But he’s not mature enough to stand up for himself yet. He’ll be ready in the next couple years.

      • Anon

        The risk of your child getting assaulted by a stranger in a secure office building is extremely, extremely low. You could also wait outside the door for him and be alert to any unusual delays or any red flags from other men entering. I don’t understand that line of thinking.

        • Anon

          He’s not mature enough to understand unusual delays or red flags. He’s just not. Probably because I’m a terrible mother who is coddling my child or whatever, but I know my kid. He’s not ready. I think he will be soon. In the mean time, I’m putting his safety first. It will always come first. But I’m trying to respect other women by just avoiding the situation altogether. I’m ok with where I’ve ended up.

          • Anon

            You misunderstood. YOU can be the one to wait outside the door and keep an eye out for red flags. You can confirm that no one else is in the bathroom if want before you send your child in. That being said, thank you for being respectful to other women by finding other solutions.

      • Anonymous

        But men NEVER take their daughters into men’s restrooms beyond the age of about three. They send their daughters in alone and stand outside the door. Don’t know why it should be different for little boys than for little girls.

        • anon

          I went into the restroom with my dad when I was older, although I can’t remember how much older. Part of the reason it persisted was that going to the men’s room was familiar to me and it felt scary to go into this big bathroom all by myself I also remember when I started going into the women’s bathroom by myself he was nervous to let me go by myself in a space where he couldn’t enter. He was a single dad, but I don’t see why this would be different for a dad who’s out with his daughter w/o mom or someone else present.

        • Anonymous

          Because men are much more likely to be molesters than women. And because the inherent nature of men’s rooms and urinals means that there’s a ready made ‘excuse’ for man to ‘accidentially’ flash a young boy.

          There is clearly one poster replying as an anon throughout the thread with statements about boys peering under stall doors and references to older boys like 10 just standing around in women’s bathrooms. I trust other women. I trust that if they are bringing their older looking kid into the bathroom with them, that he either needs to toilet and cannot do it alone for whatever reason or there is some other reason she is making that choice. I was a foster parents for a number of kids with mild FASD who looked visually ‘normal’ but who like most FASD kids had very poor impulse control and they definitely could not be left unsupervised for even the length of time it takes to use the washroom.

        • Anon

          This isn’t true. My dad took me into men’s rooms all the time when I was young. Awkward yes but he wasn’t going to send me into a women’s room by myself in a crowded place where there were multiple exits from the women’s room.

          This doesn’t come up as much because women still bear the brunt of childcare so it’s more likely that a mom is out alone with her son than a dad is out alone with his daughter. That doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen.

          The solution is more family restrooms. Or unisex restrooms with actual proper stalls (no gaps).

          • Anon

            Yeah I feel like I went into men’s rooms with my dad until I was at least 6 or so. I was developmentally typical and didn’t need help in the bathroom past the age of about 4, but my dad was overprotective and freaked out about me being snatched from a woman’s room. And we did a lot of father-daughter outings together so the issue arose a lot.

      • Anonymous

        They get assaulted in work bathrooms? Give me a break. I don’t think OP works in a gas station or at McDonalds. OP – she was a typical boy mom. God forbid they let their babies grow up in an age appropriate way. No reason a 3rd grader needs to go to the bathroom with mommy in an office, except that mommy wants him to.

        • That's a big fat no

          Or because he has special needs. Or because he has been alone in a men’s restroom before and something happened. Or because mommy is not comfortable with certain coworkers that might be in the men’s restroom. Or because an unknown maintenance worker or unknown delivery person or unknown client or unknown visitor could be in the men’s restroom. Or any number of countless reasons that YOU DO NOT KNOW and therefore shouldn’t judge. Good for them, not for you.

          If you have a son (which I highly suspect that many of these posters do not, based on the flippant dismissal of this predicament), you are more than welcome to send him alone into whatever men’s restroom you choose. But you can’t make everyone else do that. I’d love to hear all these judgmental posters be equally discriminatory towards transgender restrooms as they are being towards mothers right now.

          • Anonymous

            Boy moms need to control their anxiety. Not every mama’s boy is special needs. Not every FedEx delivery guy is looking to harm your kid. And frankly in most offices these days outsiders like vendors or delivery people aren’t even allowed upstairs. If they need a restroom, they use the one in the lobby not the one next to OPs 15th floor office.

        • Anon at 9:40

          Lol – oh yes, it’s just such a thrill to bring an 8 year into the bathroom with me. You’ve exactly identified the issue. Mothers are just the worst, aren’t they? So stupid and needy.

        • RR

          Right. Because everyone knows that white collar coworkers are never sexual predators. (That was sarcasm.)

    • anonymous

      Why yes I do remember all of these discussions that seem to ask the same type of question a million ways and always seem to have a legal/political undertone and devolve into pretty noxious threads.

      • Anonymous

        Yes, it seems clear to me that many people are uncomfortable with the quality and set up of available restrooms. Instead of getting worked up about how people use restrooms, we should probably be demanding better restrooms!

        • anonymous

          But then we wouldn’t have the opportunity to provoke inflammatory debates based on carefully designed hypotheticals that are intended to pit “women’s rights” against everyone else’s and accuse people of broad, sweeping, malevolent motivations like wanting to “let men into women only spaces,” and not caring about whether women’s comfort and safety.

          What fun would that be.

          • Anonymous

            Seriously. How does this thread have 112 replies already? Can’t we spot these posts from a mile away by now?

        • emeralds

          Yeah I think the only thing I will ever write on another of these threads is, “What have you done to advocate for inclusive restrooms lately?”

          • Anon

            Restrooms are not meant to be an inclusive, Kumbaya, love thy brother space. They’re meant to facilitate efficient and private bodily functions and are segregated by sex so women can have privacy from men while they change diapers, handle their menstrual periods, deal with incontinence issues, and yes, help (small) children. I know you know this, but what I don’t know is why you’re so eager to pretend like women’s concerns don’t matter. What’s in it for you? I’m genuinely curious.

          • anonymous

            “… but what I don’t know is why you’re so eager to pretend like women’s concerns don’t matter.”

            This is a ludicrous misrepresentation of her post.

            “What’s in it for you?”

            Because emeralds probably runs a Men’s Rights Activism group (that also happens to be inclusive of transwomen’s rights) that advocates against women only spaces, thinks women are too uppity, hates feminism, and wants to put women in their place by subjecting them to the prying eyes of eight year old boys. She probably also runs a s3x trafficking ring, and likes to send cross-dressing men into bathrooms to snatch young girls.

          • emeralds

            Inclusive restrooms are LITERALLY THE ANSWER TO THIS PROBLEM, which makes me think that you are not coming at this conversation from a good-faith space.

            Inclusive restrooms = gender-neutral single-entry bathrooms everywhere, for those who prefer not to go into gender-designated spaces AND ALSO women who do not want to take a chance on an eight year old boy coming into a women’s restroom with multiple stalls. Inclusive restrooms = family/caregiver bathrooms so that parents do not have to handle the kinds of juggling the needs of their kids vs. the needs of others that you see throughout this thread.

            What’s in it for me? A solution to your problem that does not involve shaming people or making people uncomfortable or making people unsafe. I am not eager to pretend women’s concerns don’t matter–I am eager for the people like you, who pop up in every. single. one. of these freaking conversations, to educate yourself about the movement that could actually solve the problem you have identified. This is a real thing that real people are working towards–go join them!

            Unless, of course, this is instead exactly what anonymous at 11:18 called out.

          • emeralds

            @Anon, longer reply in mod, TLDR is “google inclusive restrooms, they are the solution to your problem, the fact that you do not know this and did not google it before you wrote your response telling me I don’t care about women instead tells me you are not coming from a good-faith space.”

            Now, back to administering my MRA subreddit [biggest eyeroll of my life]

          • Equestrian attorney

            Also, men can change diapers too – just saying. Having well-designed bathrooms for all helps everyone.

        • Anonymous

          i read an interesting article that posited that the issue with bathrooms for women (numbers no single stall) are really the fault of the plumbing code, which doesn’t get updated with the same regularity as other types of building codes.

    • Anonymous

      I am on team parents do dumb things. Last week we seemed to be OK with 12 year olds staying home from school all day over breaks. Surely a kid of 10 can be in a secure office building for 5 minutes? And be told to dart in only if accosted?

      • Anon

        I don’t think it’s about leaving her 8 year old alone in her office for 5 minutes while she goes to the bathroom, presumably most people would be comfortable with that. But if her kid has to use the bathroom and she can’t go into the men’s room with him, and he needs assistance, what choice does she have besides bringing him into the women’s room? You mock, but a non-trivial percentage of 8 year olds need help in the bathroom. 8 vs 12 is kind of light years apart in terms of child development, I don’t think it’s a fair comparison.

        • Anonymous

          This. The difference between 8 and 12 is almost as different developmentally as between 4 and 8. You would’t say ‘why can’t a 4 year old do this because an 8 year old could do this other thing that we discussed yesterday’.

          My 7.5 year old has digestive issues which means that accidents can occur quickly and without warning and even if she does make it to the toilet, she usually needs assistance cleaning up.

          • Anonymous

            On the basic math, 4:8 =/= 8:12.

            And I have a feeling that dumb parents > kids with hidden disabilities.

            As a parent, your one goal is independence for your child. I think that a lot of parents are completely failing their kids on this front.

          • Anon

            I value independence but it’s pretty ridiculous to claim it’s the “one goal” of all parents. Jeez. Do you have kids?

          • Inspired by Hermione

            ….Four years is the difference for both, and 4 years is a huge difference in terms of child development.

            You’re just trying to start an argument, give it a rest.

        • Anonymous

          I disagree. 8 year olds go to school, go to camp, and even go to sleep-away camp. Unless you saw the grownup actually assisting or they went into a stall together, this is 99% dumb parents. At some point, a normal kid of school age (so, like you have to be 5 to go to K) can go into a men’s room in a secure office building and run out / holler if there is a problem.

          When I travelled solo with my stepson, he was always told to go into the men’s room and yell/run out if there were a problem but that I would be coming in in 3 minutes, so he should go quickly and be sure to wash his hands. He didn’t have any issues during the school day so I’m not sure why a non-school setting should be any different (and a 5 year old in school can be jumped by an older kid or kids, so it’s not like the school thing is necessarily safer, but we let kids act up to their ability to independence and shouldn’t stifle it unnecessarily).

      • Anon

        But we don’t know if this particular 8 year old had a disability or something. Many disabilities aren’t obvious or visible. So I’d err on the side of giving parents the benefit of the doubt.

        • Anonymous

          Maybe, but I’ve seen so many parents coddling their kids that it is hard to give parents the benefit of the doubt. I mean, no 13-year-old would tolerate this, and yet I don’t see it done with older (now obvs disabled) kids. Only with younger ones.

          • Anon

            So what’s your solution? Are you saying that women should start accosting other women who bring their sons into women’s restrooms? To what end? Do you really think the moms that are just “coddling” their kids will be converted and stop doing it? I think that’s highly unlikely. The more likely result is that you accost someone who has a very legitimate reason to take their son into the women’s room. Having a kid with disabilities is stressful enough so good for you for adding to that moms stress. Maybe the kid has Crohn’s disease and you embarrass the kid who needs help in the restroom. Gold star for you?

    • So Anon

      I have done this with my 8 year old son many times. And yes, he does have multiple disabilities, none of which are visible to the eye. I do worry about his safety in a men’s restroom, and that responsibility falls to my shoulders because I am a single mother. If I do not want him going into the men’s restroom, and he “should” not come into the women’s restroom, where should he use the restroom?

      • Anon

        You need to address your own fears about his safety because honestly, they wouldn’t be reasonable in this circumstance. No one is saying to send your 8 yo into a smoky bar bathroom alone, but it is not unsafe for him to use the men’s room in a locked office building. It just isn’t and you aren’t helping him by acting like he needs protection for a very basic thing. If he needs assistance for a disability, that’s a separate issue from safety.

        • So Anon

          Perhaps you can see that the two can be linked? But yes, in general, I agree that a men’s room in an office building should be safe. However, that does not address the needs of kids with disabilities.

        • Anonymous

          I don’t think you get to tell a parent of a child with a disability how to parent their child. You need to get off your high horse and realize how oblivious and privileged you sound.

    • Anon

      You are getting a lot of push back, so I just want to comment that I agree with you. I’m so sick of people taking away all women’s only spaces, and just expecting women to accept men in your space. I’m sick of boys who clearly don’t need help to use the bathroom anymore coming in to women’s bathrooms instead of using men’s bathrooms that are safe, the same way that I’m sick of grown men hanging out in women’s changing rooms at clothing store.

      • Anonymous

        Exactly. I’m sorry but what 8 year old needs mommy’s help with this? You’re telling me a 3rd grader is letting mama help him with his garden hose? Yeah right.

        • Anon

          Kids with ostomies. Kids with IBS/Crohns/Colitis/Celiac that have diarrhea and need some help in the cleanup department.

        • So Anon

          My 8 year old has Crohn’s Disease and autism, so yes, there are absolutely times where I need to be with him in the restroom.

    • Ribena (formerly Hermione)

      I had to make a complaint at the gym about this last week. I don’t need 9-10 year old boys roaming are uni the changing room watching me get ready.

    • Anonymous

      He has a disability – it’s just unclear whether it is physical/mental/emotional or an overbearing mother that is crippling his development. I sincerely hope it is not the latter, as he can likely learn to manage anything else.

      • Anonymous

        I thought on Wednesdays we wore pink. Didn’t realize we had switched that to mocking children with disabilities…

      • Anonymous

        Guaranteed his “disability” which 99% of mom’s claim now was like anxiety or add or over coddled mamas boy or some other non sense.

        • Never too many shoes...

          As the mother of a child with a disability (well, not sure if you would consider autism a “disability” or some manifestation of my own anxieties based on your post), all I can say is that I hope you never have children.

          • Anon

            There’s clearly one person who keeps replying to most of these comments, demeaning women, “overbearing mothers,” children and especially children with disabilities.

          • So Anon

            Seconded. As a mother of a child with autism and Crohn’s Disease, please do not pretend that you understand the mother or the child’s life.

          • Inspired by Hermione

            Thirded. I have a disability and kids with it don’t look like anything but a stereotypical kid. They’re called invisible illnesses, maybe you haven’t heard of them. The key part of that is that they’re invisible! People like you can’t immediately decide that a kid isn’t disabled because they look “normal.”

            Kids with my disability may very well need help up to around 8 or 9 in the bathroom, for reasons that are none of your damm business.

        • Eh

          To Anonymous at 10:37: The litany of grammatical errors in your horrifically discriminatory post at least diminishes your horrible worldview, so that’s helpful.

        • Anon

          Oh are you a doctor? How could you possibly know this? I hope you never have children. Are you also the person in the office who demands medical records of coworkers with accommodations?

          • Inspired by Hermione

            Probably. Or the random woman on the street who shamed people about “staying home when they’re sick” despite not having a single clue why appear to have a cold but don’t. Clearly this person would prefer only people with “real” (read: visible) disabilities get the accommodations and respect everyone, including people and kids with invisible disabilities, deserve.

        • Anonymous

          I appreciate that there are real medical disabilities. However the % of those is much much lower than the “disability” of being a coddled mama’s boy afraid of his shadow. This is why we see articles about parents calling the college cafeteria or professors or employers to advocate for their 20 year old sweeties. It starts with not allowing them to go to the bathroom alone in a place where you spend 40+ hours a week with other professionals.

          • Anonymous

            I’m really struggling with the idea that office professionals have somehow been vetted such that we know they’re not predatory. Is that a thing?

          • Anonymous

            You think your coworkers are child molesters across the board? Your employer does no criminal background checks at all when onboarding? Sounds like you need a new job.

          • Anon

            But how do you know? You saw this happen once and now you’re upset that the child doesn’t have a visible disability so you’ve concluded he must be “coddled.” Numerous people have given you lots of examples of non-visible disabilities that would require them to take an 8 year old into the bathroom. I don’t understand the continued insistence that this child doesn’t have a disability and is just coddled. You have literally no way of knowing the details of their situation, so why not assume there are good reasons for the mother’s decision?

          • anon

            Right? For all you know this child was not disabled but was simply feeling ill. Maybe he was particularly upset for some reason. Maybe he was recently misbehaving and therefore under mom’s thumb. The fact that you are noting that taking an 8 year old boy into a woman’s bathroom is unusual goes to show you that there were probably unusual circumstances here. I don’t understand the bizarre need (oh wait yes I do) to extrapolate this instances out to various sweeping conclusions.

        • LaurenB

          “99% of mom’s claim”? We’re on a board of professional, educated women. 99% of moms claim. There you go. Why don’t you scurry back to where you came from?

    • anon

      You know, I’ve been wondering about this too. I have a 4 year old so at the moment it’s not a big deal to bring him into the restroom with me. But what about when he’s 8? Do I send him to the men’s room alone? What if I just have to go? Do I leave him outside? That kind of makes me nervous in some scenarios, such as a really crowded airport. A bathroom in a secure building? Not so much.

      I totally get not allowing him in a women’s locker room where women are changing though. I wouldn’t even do that now.

      • Anonymous

        Yes, you let him go in alone at 8 and wait outside. You go in alone and tell him to wait. This is developmentally appropriate safe parenting. If he’s disabled, sure bring him. But a normal 8 year old can go alone.

      • Anonymous

        Airports aren’t that difficult. Many have family restrooms but even if not, airport bathrooms are crowded. There’s safety in numbers. If you come across one that seems lonely from the outside, walk to the other side of the terminal to one that’s packed. I think rest stops etc are more challenging.

      • Anonymous

        The answer is generally: person with more urgent need goes first, other is stationed at the door (think: highway rest stop). The message is always that the grownup goes out / comes in if kid yells and if kid is in, kid must come out in 3-5 minutes / before you count to 100 / some reasonable length of time and if kid isn’t done then, kid has one phrase to use to tell you he is OK and needs more time (like pre-agreed: Mom, Mo Time Mo Time!). Kid needs to be able to assert: my mom is outside (or inside) and will kill you if I yell.

        You listen.

        You have 4 years to practice, so practice now (at home). And your kid will be in K next year, so talk about bathroom safety generally (what if kids pick on you / hit you / merely tease) anyway b/c Winter Is Coming.

        But you will be fine. He will be fine, too.

        • Anonymous

          Okay so explain how this works with my 7 year old son, 4 year old daughter, and 3 year old son. What about when DH takes them somewhere and my 7 year old has a stuttering problem in stress situations so his speech can be unintelligible. And now my friend with boy-girl twins whose son is non-verbal autistic.

          You introduce an extremely simple scenario and act like you have solved the problem. If all issues were like the one you presented, then the world would be a very easy place.

          Instead of your bizarre system of rules, how about YOU take the next 4 years to work on trusting other people to do what is necessary to care for their families to the best of their ability while minimally impacting others.

          • Anonymous

            @ anon 1:14 – can you read? The phrase “unless they are disabled” it literally nowhere in her post at 11:38 which is what I replied to.

            Even if they aren’t disabled – when you have more than one kid and all the kids are saying they can’t hold it, Anon 11:38am’s system is totally bizarre and unworkable.

    • Anonymous

      It isn’t unlikely that she needed, for some reason you don’t deserve to know, to bring her son with her.

    • Anon

      I grew up with a younger brother, and he never came in to the bathroom with my mother and me after the age of like 6. Instead, my mom sent him in to the men’s room – alone – and waited right outside the door. This was true at places like target, restaurants, and, god forbid, sports stadiums (in fairness, I think he did come in to the restroom with us at big sports stadiums till he was about 8 or 9).

      I’m so confused about what has changed so much in the last 20 years that boys are no longer able to use a restroom alone. How many of the people saying that they bring their 8 to 10 year old boy in to public women’s restrooms had brothers who came in to women’s restrooms when they were growing up?

      • Anon

        +1. Plus, rates of crime against children have dropped dramatically since then. It’s never been safer to be a child in the U.S. but you’d never know it based on parental behavior.

        • Anonymous

          I have one kid who is incredibly naive. I think she’s more likely to find a dark corner of the internet and get exploited that way (just send me one picture! I won’t share it with anyone, I PROMISE) or molested by someone we already have met in real life who has access to her (friends older brother’s friend, etc.) than she is to be hurt by a stranger.

        • anon

          But possibly these crime rates have dropped because no one lets kids out of their sight anymore.

        • Anonymous

          Yes, this discussion really seems to reflect parental anxiety much more than actual data.

          • Anon

            Meh. I don’t have kids so no parental anxiety. My thoughts on this post and not freaking out about boys in the women’s room are fueled by the fact that I respect women and assume that moms in this situation are making the choice to bring their son into the women’s room for a reason.

    • Anon

      To all the people arguing for “safe spaces for women” let’s not forget all the hard work we did to dismantle “men’s only” spaces. You can’t have it both ways. You can’t argue that women can do and be everything a man can be and at the same time argue we are special and need to be protected.

      • Anon

        Did you know the UN has identified the lack of single-sex toilet facilities as a major risk factor for sexual assault for women living in refugee camps? Now, I know you wouldn’t suggest that it’s only men in “those countries” who commit crimes like that. It’s an undeniable fact that no matter where you go in the world, men commit the vast majority of all violence, especially all sexual violence, and that reasonable safeguarding measures like separate bathrooms can limit women’s risk. We DO need to be protected from sexual assault because men clearly aren’t taking it upon themselves to stop assaulting women, and just because you personally may not feel at risk doesn’t mean you get to speak for all victims.

        • Anonymous

          Has the UN also identified 8 year old boys as the perpetrators of that violence? They are much more likely to be victims that perpetrators.

          • Anon

            I am not sure of the age breakdown for that study, but other similar studies have found that girls miss school more frequently in low-income countries when bathrooms aren’t segregated by sex. It’s partially that girls are afraid to deal with their periods around boys and partially that the boys tease, harass, and in worst cases, molest them. It’s a real, serious problem with life-altering consequences for girls (damned if you stay home from school and don’t get educated, damned if you go and have to face boys harassing you).

          • Anon

            Surely you see that single gender bathrooms at school where everyone using them is children is very different than a mom brining her boy into a women’s room in a public place

      • Anon

        That makes no sense at all. No one here is arguing that women should be allowed to go in to men’s bathrooms or changing rooms. Men’s bathrooms and changing rooms should be for men. Women’s bathrooms and changing rooms should be for women. What is so hard to understand about that?

        • Anon at 12:04

          I was just thinking of my female friend in law enforcement that can’t get assigned plush sector A because back up takes a long time to get there. Fine for the men though because they apparently aren’t going to be sexually assaulted or get into a fight they can’t win. She is advocated that they need to be treated equally and that she can take any assignment any of the men can have.

          They were holding her back in an attempted effort to protect her from sexual assault.

          I can’t imagine her trying to argue with a straight face that she couldn’t share a bathroom with a male 8 year old.

    • SSJD

      Are you sure it was a son? My 9 year old daughter often looks “like a boy” to observers. She tends to wear a baseball hat, mesh shorts, and a t-shirt. Sometimes she has earrings in, but sometimes she doesn’t. I bet an observer might think she was a boy walking into a ladies’ room, but she is not.

    • Seventh Sister

      I have a son, and I’m definitely on the “free-range” end of the independence spectrum. I let my son (almost 8) use the bathroom alone at our Target, in a “bad” neighborhood and pretty much anyplace else where we go fairly often. The danger I tend worry about is whether he will actually wash his hands.

      That said, I’ve taken him into the women’s bathroom in my office because he doesn’t come here all that often and I’m too lazy to supervise him by shouting from the open doorway to the men’s room in front of my coworkers. Yes, am terrible mother, don’t care.

    • anonymous

      “but I didn’t feel comfortable speaking up”

      Why not, OP? What did you think would happen?

      • Anon

        Because I didn’t want to embarrass the kid or mother in case he did in fact have an invisible disability. Obviously this thread has gone places, but I was asking from a place of genuine curiosity about whether mothers are concerned for the safety of their kids in the most vanilla office building you can imagine and because I’m concerned that it’s become the norm to prioritize everyone else’s needs above women’s needs (to the point where you’re assumed to be coming from a place of bad faith if you question a departure from the status quo).

        • anonymous at 10:00 and 11:18

          “because I’m concerned that it’s become the norm to prioritize everyone else’s needs above women’s needs”

          This just such a tremendous leap of logic. Can’t you see that? Honestly, I’ve watched enough of these threads devolve into dumpster fires and remarkably, they all seem to start out with the same type of question. The scenario presented usually shifts just slightly to relate to the proposed solution/nuance discussed in the previous thread. The fact that you noted that you don’t feel comfortable speaking up mirrors the advice given in a previous thread– that if you see a person behaving suspiciously you just speak up like in any other situation, rather than creating a blanket, overly broad rule that could hurt people. But here, facing the looming threat of an 8 year old boy and his mother, you don’t feel comfortable speaking up. So we’re all supposed to say “OP, buck up. Get comfortable expressing discomfort to people. You can’t avoid confrontation your whole life, you live in a society.” And then you (or the others) get to respond, “SEE! They’re protecting men at the expense of women’s comfort and safety. Why can’t we have women only spaces??”

          This is why I do not believe the question is presented in good faith, and also because the OP is usually followed by a bunch of anonymous posts pounding out the same thing over and over again, or other nastiness like we’ve seen here re: disabled or medically compromised children and coddled boys.

          Also, who do you mean by “everyone else”? Cis men? Because cis men’s needs have historically been prioritized over women’s, so it’s not reasonable to say that’s becoming the new norm. So you must mean… trans gendered people. (Or am I missing something? Or are you seriously concerned that we’re putting the needs of potentially disabled 8 year old children over women’s needs?) And, wouldn’t you know it, many of these threads started out discussing trans women.

        • Anonymous

          FWIW, I think that it is possible to support trans rights, disabled children, and get annoyed that older boys are in the women’s restroom. I’m the poster above with the nephew who is still using the women’s room at almost 10. He is typically developing and healthy. His dad and uncle were RIGHT THERE and could have taken him to the men’s room. He is used to going to the bathroom with his mom because she is worried about safety and prioritizes that over how her choices impact other people. I love his mom and would trust her to parent my own children if me and DH were gone. If I don’t feel comfortable talking about these issues with a person that I love and trust because of the screaming about safety, etc., above. It sucks and it makes me feel sad about where we are with our collective anxiety. For me, making family restrooms the norm is the way out of this.

    • Anon

      To everyone (or the one or two people??) that has an issue with this, why not use your discomfort to advocate for family restrooms to be required in public places instead of shaming moms for decisions that you don’t fully understand (it’s impossible that you have all the facts as to why she is bringing a boy into the restroom)

  6. anon for this

    Thanks for all the advice yesterday. For those who wondered, the gift was a writing instrument – person I dated in college was both wealthy and very good at gift-giving.

    • TorontoNewbie

      That’s a lot more like jewelry or something equally personal and sentimental… I love pens and writing and am very emotionally attached to several of my pens that were purchased or gifted for milestones (first kid, etc)… and I’d be super uncomfortable to have my partner using one that was gifted by a previous significant other. Not sure I’d have a multi-hour meltdown about it, but would definitely hurt my feelings.

      Can you replace the pen? Go shopping for a new pen with him? Or I guess just move it to your office so you can use it but it isn’t in his face?

    • Anonymous

      I really don’t think that the gift matters at all. It is the insecurity that is the problem. Finding another pen won’t make this person reasonable. Therapy has a chance though.

      I’m pretty sure that I sleep on the mattress that my husband and his ex-wife bought.

    • cbackson

      It’s not about the pen. It’s about insecurity.

      Maybe I’m old and jaded, but at age 38 I assume anyone that I love has truly and deeply loved someone in the past, because life is long and complicated. It’s natural to feel some discomfort in hearing about those people, but it shouldn’t cause an emotional meltdown unless you assume that your partner keeping that object means that your partner still carries a torch for that person. And absent other facts, that’s not a normal assumption in circumstances where we’re talking about a long-ago relationship and a passing reference to who gave you a gift.

        • cbackson

          I actually walked down the aisle to that at my first* wedding! IDK, I guess I sort of like people to have history. That history, even the parts that didn’t include me, and even the parts that are messy, made that person the person I love now, and so there’s beauty in it.

          I also like antique furniture and vintage clothes, so I guess my whole life is basically the scratch and dent sale, but that’s how I like it…

          * she says, hoping there will be a second one, ha.

          • pugsnbourbon

            “my whole life is basically the scratch and dent sale” – I love that!
            I always say that I’m going for Crate and Barrel, but I end up being the clearance rack at Bed Bath and Beyond.

  7. anne-on

    Hopefully fun question – I realized I don’t have any fun ‘going out tops’ as we used to call them. I’ve got a few outdoor concerts/nights out planned and I’d like something with slightly more edge than my normal preppy attire and more dressed up than my weekend mom clothes. Any suggestions for tops that are ideally washable and under $50/piece? I’d like to wear a bra underneath so sleeves/thicker straps preferred!
    Already have black jeans and a moto jacket as my topper so really just need the top to complete an outfit.

  8. Leatty

    Azores tips? DH and I are headed to the Azores this summer for a one week vacation. Since we only have a week, we will only be visiting Sao Miguel, and we are staying in Ponta Delgada. We plan to do some hiking, but otherwise want (need) a relaxing vacation. We’ll have a rental car. Suggestions?

    • anon

      Hot springs at Furnas! We booked a day pass to the indoor hot spring pool at Furnas Boutique Hotel & Spa. Really lovely, not crowded and you don’t need good weather. Tour a tea plantation? The island is so small you can really just drive all over and stop wherever it looks interesting (lots of little parks off the highways with lovely views). Enjoy; I loved that trip!

  9. Anonymous

    Shopping help, please! I’m looking for some non-polyester, simple tops to wear under blazers – short sleeves and either solid color or simple patterns. Now that the weather is warming up, I’m noticing a lot of my blouses are 100% poly. I like them because they feel kind of silky/flowy and are machine washable, but I don’t love how they feel by mid-afternoon when it’s warm out. I’d like to find some pieces that will breathe a little bit (and am okay spending more than I have been for poly) but I’m not sure where to start.

    • emeralds

      A lot of the brands Kat mentioned in the Earth Day roundup would be likely to work for this. Personally, I’ve been loving Everlane recently–the quality and fabrics are head and shoulders above what I’ve found elsewhere at the same price point.

  10. thehungryaccountant

    I have been feeling a little aimless recently, just going with the flow and not pursuing my personal and professional goals. I think this has more to do with my lack of planning and implementation than a lack of motivation.
    How do you goal-getters plan and track progress to your personal and professional goals?

    • Monday

      I have a Passion Planner. The weekly quotes are mostly cheesy, but otherwise it’s VERY good for specific planning, both “bigger picture” stuff and then breaking it down to deadlines etc. You can download the PDFs for free, last I knew, in exchange for promoting on social media. But I buy the actual planners each year and they’re pretty.

      • thehungryaccountant

        Do you generally use the same one for work and personal?
        I generally keep my job to-do list separate and leave it at the office

        • Monday

          Yes, separate. I like to leave work at work and do so as much as possible (I have a notebook that lives in my desk and otherwise use my work Outlook account to organize). The PP does have a “Work To-Do List” every week, but I only use it if I’m doing something personally for my career on off-hours, like applying for something, doing CEUs, a networking thing etc.

          • thehungryaccountant

            Thank you for your advice! I was looking at the work to do list in the PP and wasn’t sure how to take it. I think I’m going to print out a month’s pages to start and see where it takes me.

  11. Jane

    I’ve just been informed I’m gojng to head a department at work. This will be my first real management experience in the corporate world. Can you wise ladies give me any advice as a first time manager or direct me to some good books on the subject? Thank you!

    • Pompom

      The First 90 Days is a decent place to start. Lays out some very realistic, reasonable, and actionable steps to taking when you’re new to a role (esp a leadership role)!

      • anon

        I wish I’d read this sooner than I did, but I was so freaking overwhelmed during my first 90 days as a brand-new manager! I had plenty of project management experience but people management is a whole different thing.

        OP, don’t be surprised if this change feels a bit … unmooring, if you will. Going from an individual contributor role to heading a department requires a big shift in terms of mindset and priorities. I found it helpful to find another trusted peer at that level to share ideas and problem-solve with. Remember that your peer group is different now — that also can be a tough adjustment if you’re making an internal move.

        In the absence of good peer guidance, read all you can about the nuts and bolts of management. HBR is a great resource, and you may want to check out its book For New Managers. Ask a Manager also is helpful.

        One-on-one meetings with your direct reports are super important. Have them on a set schedule. Let them open the conversation and share what’s on their minds before you push new work on them.

    • NOLA

      I feel like this is the book I always recommend, but Crucial Conversations. That was the hardest thing for me to learn as a new supervisor – how to have the difficult conversations and what’s worth dealing with, and what’s better to let go. Planning those conversations is important. Also, for evaluation in development, justify and detail your feedback with corresponding development plans. Sometimes it’s best to create a development plan with the person because you may know what they need to improve, but they may know best how they will respond to training, etc. Own what you say to people. Never frame it as coming from above you, unless that’s a good strategy for the particular situation or person. Good luck!

      • Pompom

        Oh, yes, this. I have a colleague who is a Crucial Conversations coach/facilitator (idk the right term) and conducts these training sessions with alumni and other executive students. They are a huge hit!

    • CHL

      You have some great recommendations here! You might also think about making a list of things that you are NOT going to do anymore as you move into a management role. I think a lot of people keep doing their old job, plus management responsibilities and it might help you shift if you think about the things that are no longer part of your job (but you have different responsibilities about monitoring their completion and quality, coaching others to do them, etc).

    • S in Chicago

      Coaching for Performance. Changed my whole view on being a manager. I’ve learned that my listening and asking questions is far more effective at getting buy-in and ownership on projects than simply giving directives. I also really like What Got You Here Won’t Get You There (good on audiobook–very easy to follow).

  12. Anony

    Apologies in advance for a long post. I just need to vent, advice welcome as well…

    For the past year, my boyfriend has been having some mysterious health issues. The exact symptoms have varied but have typically included pain manifesting itself in different ways, as well as a sense on his part that something is wrong. There have been other strange symptoms that have come and gone. He has been to see his PCP, who did a variety of tests, found nothing, and suggested he see a neurologist and a rheumatologist. He went to the rheumatologist, who found nothing wrong. He hasn’t seen a neurologist, but went to another primary care doctor, who also did tests, found nothing, and suggested a specialist. He is very dispirited that no one has been able to find what’s wrong with him but for whatever reason won’t go to the neurologist. He’s gone to urgent care and the emergency room a couple times when he feels like the pain is different or worse than usual but they have never found anything urgently wrong.

    I’ve reached a point of really struggling with this. His health concerns dominate all our conversations. He’s very concerned that “something is really wrong” but when I tell him he needs to go see the specialists that were recommended to him, he always has a reason why he hasn’t. He says he’s lost faith in the healthcare system because no one has been able to figure out what’s wrong, which I sort of understand but also feel like he hasn’t really given them a chance. He says no one wants to help him. He spends a lot of time Googling his symptoms, which is obviously unhelpful.

    I want to be a helpful and supportive partner to him, but I am really struggling with this. I don’t want to be dismissive of any of his problems, especially knowing that patients with chronic pain are often treated dismissively by the healthcare system. But I think he is probably not helping himself but obsessing about this constantly – I think the problems are at least in part psychosomatic, especially when he reads things online that make him extra worried. And I’m so sick of talking about it. Actually, not sick of talking about his illness in particular, but sick of how most conversations about his illness typically devolve into him going on about how no one wants to help him, he thought doctors were smarter than this, etc etc. I have tried to help when possible (asking physician friends for suggestions about good neurologists to see, researching alternative medicine providers for the brief period that he wanted to explore that) but he doesn’t follow up on any of that, so I have basically stopped.

    I miss having an actual relationship with my partner. He is very apologetic that he’s having all these problems, and I feel terrible that someone I love is apologizing for being ill. But I’m also reaching the end of my rope on this. We’ve been together for a few years and I don’t want to just walk away from the relationship because he is having health problems. But I can’t imagine going on like this.

    • Anon

      Sounds to me like he needs a psychologist and psychiatrist ASAP. I will grant that there may be something physically wrong with him as our health care system does tend to be dismissive of any issues it cannot solve reasonably easily or directly, but he needs help dealing with this and that help cannot 100% be his partner, whether a gf or a spouse or anything else. He’s not going to be able to solve this if he cannot function well, and he’s not functioning well if it is impacting his relationship.

      • anon

        I agree with this. He sounds anxious and clearly needs more support than what he’s getting, but I don’t think it’s reasonable for you to be that sole support person. You’re too close to the situation, plus it puts you in a larger caretaking role than you may be comfortable with at this point in your relationship.

      • Anonymous

        Agreed. Sometimes therapy is about developing better coping skills, not resolving a problem. He’s clearly not coping well (understandably) and he needs better tools. Therapy can help with that. But he has to actually go.

        OP – if he refuses to go to therapy then I don’t know what to tell you. The issue isn’t his health, it’s his endless obsessing and complaining about the same thing. This is like someone in a bad job who dominates all conversations by talking about work. Or someone in a bad relationship who endlessly complains about their SO. At some point you have to tell them, I love you and I’m sorry that you’re dealing with this very valid frustration, but I’m going to set a timer for 10 minutes and that’s all the time you can talk about this issue tonight. If you need to continue to vent then you need to do it with someone else, preferably a paid professional, because it is not constructive or fair to dominate 100% of our free time with your complaints, no matter how valid your complaints are.

      • Anony

        I hate this advice (from personal experience). When I was in college I constantly went to the doctor and hospital for symptoms of what turned out to be an autoimmune disease. It took 3 years of this for me to get diagnosed, because while they did some tests, they didn’t do the correct one (and the symptoms are non-specific). I finally was diagnosed by a specialist for one of the symptoms who remembered something from medical school and did the test even though it was completely outside of his field.

        Every single time I went to the doctor and hospital, after about a year, they tried to get me a psych consult because they thought it was all in my head. But I was 100 percent convinced it wasn’t, but nobody listened, and made me out to be crazy. The experience has affected my self esteem about my mental health ever since.

        • Anonymous

          I’m glad you posted this because I think this is where OP’s SO is going to be coming from if/when she suggests therapy to him. It’s important for OP to frame this as – you need an extra person besides me to support you through this diagnostic journey (as someone said below – which is a brilliant suggestion) – not – your chronic illness is all in your head so just go to therapy to get fixed. That might be a really hard conversation if SO is already getting the latter message from doctors.

        • Anony

          Thank you – he is already seeing a therapist (mostly for work-related stress) so I haven’t pushed very hard on the therapy aspect, both because of the reasons you state and because he does already have some professional psychological support.

      • Anon

        Agree. My grandmother has FOR YEARS had problems with low iron levels and fatigue/depression/etc. that come with that. Despite trying different strategies for supplementation (which never worked), none of her doctors did more testing. She was admitted to the hospital with heart failure last week and only now have they run tests to determine why (despite supplementation) her body will not absorb essential minerals and nutrients. It’s because she has late stage colon cancer! She was treated like a hypochondriac whenever she tried to insist on testing, and well, now…

      • Anony

        Thank you, I should have mentioned that he is seeing a therapist to talk about work-related stress and anxiety. I don’t know how much they delve into the health stuff but he does have a professional he’s speaking to regularly. I haven’t pushed harder on the therapy aspect because of the reasons others have said about people dismissing them into therapy when they had real issues.

        • Lana Del Raygun

          I wonder if it might help him to talk to his therapist about why he’s so resistant to see the recommended specialists, though — could you suggest that? It seems like the opposite of “this must be in your head” to me.

          • Anonymous

            Yes, this. Perhaps there really is something physically wrong, and if there is then he needs to take action to get it diagnosed. As pointed out elsewhere in this thread, he has to decide whether to put up and shut up, or do something about his pain and other physical symptoms. If he chooses to continue complaining and visiting the ER all the time without following through to get a real diagnosis, then he’s got a separate problem his therapist should be addressing.

    • Anon

      So I went through something similar with my husband, with a combination of mental and physical issues and a huge variety of diagnoses, from “you’re fine, get more rest and eat better” to “we think you might be dying of encephalitis” and pretty much everything in between. It’s been really, really exhausting and frustrating for both of us.
      First, commiseration – everything you are feeling is totally normal. Some advice from my situation: DH ended up having something wrong which was very hard to diagnose (b/c rare). I’m glad I pushed him to see more (expensive, often out-of-pocket) specialists and I’m sorry I sometimes doubted him. I do think it’s fair to ask that not every conversation be about illness and diagnosis and symptoms – I’ve told DH I really need to have dates where we just talk about other things and he gets that but sometimes slips because it’s just become such a huge part of his life. As concerns the seeing more doctors thing, you need to gently but firmly explain that either he now feels OK and stops seeing doctors/complaining about symptoms, or he thinks something is wrong and needs to keep trying to find out what is. At the same time, try to be empathetic – in hindsight, I’m furious at how crappy and condescending some of the doctors we saw were and kind of understand how DH was loosing faith in the system. He’s on medication and better now, but it’s still a big part of our lives and not something I would have wished for in an ideal world; sometimes I’ve really had to remind myself about the whole “in sickness and in health” part of our vows.

      • Anony

        Thank you – this is incredibly helpful. I really appreciate you sharing your experience, and really appreciate the clarity of “either he now feels OK and stops seeing doctors/complaining about symptoms, or he thinks something is wrong and needs to keep trying to find out what is.” Right now, we’re stuck in a limbo of him feeling that things aren’t fine but they are manageable and he doesn’t think doctors are helpful anyway, so he doesn’t go… until he decides that things are dramatically worse and goes to urgent care/ER – which compounds his conviction that doctors won’t help him, because they typically send him home. I think I need to have a gentle conversation highlighting that he’s created a no-win cycle for himself with that and he needs to figure out a way to break that cycle.

        • Anon

          ER is the worst for this – we ended up in the ER three different times and each time they would go from “something is clearly very wrong, run all the tests” to “well the tests didn’t show anything so you must be totally fine even though you’re clearly not, bye”. The only way we broke the cycle was by seeing a psychiatrist, because our GP thought DH might be struggling with serious depression and hypochondria. Psychiatrist was wonderful, said DH was clearly depressed but also that none of these physical symptoms were normal and gave us very specific referrals for specialists, which is how he finally ended up with a proper diagnosis. Of course I don’t know how this will work out for you, but definitely recommend trying to find the right specialist.

      • Anonymous

        Went through something very similar with my husband. After years of going to docs who could not figure out what the problem was, he finally went to an academic medical center (at my insistence) and was diagnosed with a rare autoimmune disorder. He has serious heart failure and permanent damage to his lungs and heart due to the untreated disease. Docs told me was at the point of nearly dying by the time he was finally diagnosed. If he had been diagnosed sooner a lot of this could have been avoided. I am grateful he’s still with me but very bitter about the whole experience. I very strongly advise that you get your DH to an academic medical center ASAP. Travel whatever distance you have to and insist that a specialist evaluate your DH. Do not take no for an answer. Academic centers have the specialists who can figure this out. It could very well save your DH’s life.

    • Anonymous

      He needs a health coach or a therapist who is familiar with chronic illness and the diagnostic journey. Whatever is wrong with his health may be affecting his thinking, but in my experience typically socialized men can be very “all or nothing” about health issues (either refusing to admit anything is wrong, or launching into full-fledged hypochondria). He needs to log new symptoms and then ignore them until his next doctor’s appointment. He’s already been evaluated at the ER and urgent care, so we know it’s not an emergency. The health coach or therapist needs to help him get organized and quit wasting time on Google. It actually can be helpful to do one’s own research; doctors do not always put two and two together, and I wouldn’t have any diagnoses or treatment for my conditions if I hadn’t asked for specific tests that I had researched on my own. Doctors are trained to think “horse” not “zebra” when they “hear hoof beats,” but they say as many as 1 in 10 patients has a rare condition, and with ~7,000 rare conditions, the journey to diagnosis can be long and hard. That’s why he needs professional support and also needs to live his life in the meantime. It’s not your job to fix his mindset though. But he needs to take his symptoms more seriously and address them more effectively.

    • Anonymous

      He needs to visit a medicinal center with a pain clinic to get to the root of the problem. Pain clinics are often part of the psychiatry department, and sort through mental and physical reasons for the problem.

    • Anon

      I’m sorry you’re going through this. I have had a similar experience as your BF, and it is really tough.

      I have had issues with chronic heath problems and discomfort for years. No medications were helping me, I had seen specialists, been thoroughly tested, even had “corrective” procedures done, and nothing helped. This ended up causing an anxiety spiral for me because I would feel these constant symptoms, and I would panic, sure that whatever was wrong was going to kill me before the doctors could figure out what was even wrong with me, and then my panic would cause me to focus on the pain which would then magnify it. After years of this, I started to feel utterly hopeless that this would be the rest of my life. It is a horrifying feeling!

      I ultimately ended up with a specialist who DID diagnose me after years with a little-known disorder, but I also have been attending therapy and using cognitive behavioral therapy to help my body learn to stop focusing on the pain. After a year of doing this, I now almost never experience the symptoms I was having previously. So, as someone said above, part of therapy is about the coping with a real physical problem and not necessarily that it’s “all in your head.” Maybe he could ask his therapist for techniques to use when he is experiencing pain. This is the essentially the same concept as using meditation to manage chronic pain (which I thought was BS until I actually got some relief from it).

      For what it’s worth, also, our nervous systems are really crazy and they create pathways and “remember” pain that is no longer really there. It is basically what happens with phantom limbs. (I learned all of this in learning how to deal with my condition, I’m not a doctor so excuse me if my explanation isn’t 100% accurate, this is my layman’s understanding.) If your body experiences a trauma or a severe pain a few times (or even once in some instances) your nervous system will create a pathway and will continue to feel the pain after it is gone. This isn’t something you’re imagining, your nervous system has actually imprinted it and continues to feel it. I have chronic issues with my esophagus, and essentially this is what happened to me. After dealing with reflux for a long time, my body now feels it all the time, even though it is controlled with medication and in fact no reflux is happening. I’m using a low dose of amitriptyline (which is an anti-depressant, but in low doses is used for neuropathy) – it just helps to down-regulate those nerves so that you can “rewire” the nervous system to stop feeling the pain that it has imprinted. It’s been helpful for me, in conjunction with CBT, mediation, breathing exercises and yoga.

      Good luck to you and your BF!

      • cbackson

        Yeah, I feel like your post hits on something really important, which is that it is entirely possible that techniques learned in therapy can be used to produce actual physical relief of pain and other symptoms. We say something is “psychosomatic” in a dismissive way, when the truth is that we are only just beginning to understand the way that the mind and the body interact. Sometimes helping to heal the psyche is precisely what produces relief of physical symptoms; that doesn’t mean the symptoms weren’t real. It doesn’t even mean that the psyche was the cause of the symptoms.

    • anonymous

      Check out the book “The Mindbody Prescription: Healing the Body, Healing the Pain” from John Sarno.

      • Anon

        +1

        I had chronic pain for several years and this book is what finally helped me fix it.

  13. Anon

    Has anyone relocated to Singapore as an attorney? And/or moved back to the US market after spending time in an Asian market?

    TL;DR:

    Would you be willing to share your assessment of the upward and geographical mobility opportunities, market salaries vs cost of living, from your experience? Would appreciate any comments on whether there other arrangements or course of action I might look into too (working remotely for a US employer? Ditch law and go into computer science? Spend a couple years more in the US before relocating?), or on how you liked the experience/culture generally.

    More context:

    I may be moving to Singapore for several years in the near future due to family/visa reasons with less than two years’ experience as an attorney in the US Biglaw market, and am wondering what kind of positions I could find there, and whether the experience in Singapore would transfer to the US market (in the sense of “CAN I GET A JOB WHEN/IF I COME BACK?”, not “Can I become a partner in US Biglaw”).

    My understanding is that in Biglaw it’s almost impossible to get back into US from an Asian market like Hong Kong or Singapore — is the same for in house positions? I’m in my mid 30s and not necessarily trying to make it in Biglaw (although not opposed to it if I can find some work life balance, ha). I also don’t have any student loans so I’m open to other options, but I’d prefer to be fairly compensated esp. given the high cost of living in Singapore including potential international school tuition.

    I understand from Glassdoor and Linkedin that while some US or UK law firms recruit associates, most positions seem to be in house roles at regional HQs of multinational comoanies that want several years of experience. I did work a few years in Biglaw in a previous life in a completely irrelevant country from a common law perspective – think Thailand, not France – and no idea whether they would count experience from non US market towards this. I do speak a minor Asian language and a couple of European languages.

    • Anon

      Post a burner email. I have a friend that works there as a non-attorney and he has friends from the US that have done exactly what you want to do. While my friend won’t likely be useful in the traditional sense, he can hopefully connect you with his friends who have done the attorney thing.

    • Anon

      No advice on moving and getting a job there, but I’ve seen numerous people move back and forth between U.S. and Asia markets. It’s actually a really sought after specialty in some areas of law – especially cross border transactional deals. Being barred in the U.S. is extremely helpful to finding a job in that area of the world for cross border transactions with U.S. parties – I can’t speak to the qualifications you’d need to practice law in Singapore, however. I’d look at U.S. big law practices with large Asia and large U.S. practices or multinationals where you don’t have to get a Malaysian law degree.

    • Ellejay

      If you are admitted in England & Wales/can easily get admitted in England & Wales, an offshore law firm could be an option in Singapore (assuming you work in corporate, banking, litigation or insolvency). Those firms always need associates with Asian language skills and tend to be more open to lawyers from different backgrounds (eg they hire kiwi, Australian, Canadian, English and Irish lawyers as well as local lawyers).

    • Anon

      Briefly looked into this a few years back. It really depends on your practice (litigation v. Transactional). Actually for transactional work, I know quite a few people who did biglaw regional office in HK/Singapore who then were able to move in house at a company in the US, so it’s definitely doable. For litigation, I have only seen two people move back here from Asia. One was American citizen and applied to DOJ. The other was also an American citizen who just came back for a PhD but then was able to move in house through her connections.

      For biglaw, it seems that you get a significant relocation package with the same salary as US offices and significantly less tax if you are not American.

  14. NOLA

    Blergh. I got dressed in a hurry this morning, in a dress and pumps, without looking at my calendar. I need to run to Sam’s today and I will probably wipe out on those terrible concrete floors in these shoes. I need to be wearing jeans and Shorelines.

      • NOLA

        Ha ha, no. I mean Sam’s Club. You know, giant warehouse like Costco. I need to go to pick up food for finals and today is the day I could fit it on my calendar.

        • Anon

          Ohhh I don’t think that is something that is everywhere. I know what Costco is.

          I would change into your gym shoes or whatever shoes you keep in your car. And if you don’t keep shoes you can walk/run in in your car, you should! But this is coming from someone in earthquake country.

          • nona

            Umm…Sam’s Club is everywhere (it’s part of the Walmart empire). We had a Sam’s Club before we had a Costco.

            I’ll admit I’ve never heard it just referred to as Sam’s, so that threw me for a second.

          • Anon

            No they actually aren’t everywhere. I’m in San Francisco and this is not a store I see everywhere. I just googled and I would have to head out to Concord to see one. Not that I’m all that interested…

          • Inspired by Hermione

            Ummmmmmmm, no it’s not. There’s not a single Sams Club in Washington or Oregon. There is one in Idaho and one in Montana. Washington had 3, but they all closed. Maybe everywhere on the East coast, but not in the West.

          • Lilly

            Thank you for the reminder! I used to live somewhere that you might be called upon to move livestock out of the road in order to proceed, and I always had comfortable flat shoes in the car, because cows. I moved and then got a new car, and it’s all cleaned out and there aren’t useful flats in it now, but there will be by tomorrow. It’s Costco not Sams for me, but in the absence of straying cattle, I’ll be prepared for Costco. Thanks to 10:57 Anon and Nola for causing me to work on being prepared.

        • LaurenB

          Given that Sam’s Club has 600 stores and Costco has 770, and they are all over, they are equally national stores and it’s odd that some here are acting because they aren’t in their particular state, they shouldn’t have ever heard of them. I never step foot into Walmart but I know what it is. People all over the country know what Macy’s and Nordstrom are even if they aren’t in their particular home state. And of course it’s called Sam’s. Really, you people are getting so odd.

          • Anon

            A quick search will show that the vast majority of Sam’s club locations are on the east coast, with some in the Midwest and South, and a few out west. Similarly, Costco locations are primarily on both coasts with some in the middle of the country.

            I live somewhere with Sam’s clubs, and I’ve never heard it referred to as Sam’s. If I heard someone say that they were going to Sam’s after work, I would assume they meant some friend and be confused by the complainant. There was absolutely no reason for you to be rude.

    • Never too many shoes...

      Wait, do you not keep like 30 extra pairs of shoes at work that you could change into? #thatsnormalbehaviourandnotweirdright #right?

      • BabyAssociate

        I’m in a visiting office and still have 4 spare pairs of shoes under the desk! And sneakers in the car.

      • Houda

        Just did a quick look and I have: flat booties – heeled booties – flat shoes – workout sneakers…
        My office is slowly becoming an extension of my home

      • NOLA

        Ha! You know, I own about 80 pairs of shoes and, unless I have my gym bag, I don’t have a single pair of extra shoes in my office (and today is my gym off day). I have about a 10 minute commute and don’t really need shoes in my office. I might have had flip flops in my car, but I just sucked it up and went to Sam’s in my heels. We weren’t there long. Had a good list and much of what we needed was in two aisles. When we got back, some lovely young men saw me struggling with a case of cookies and offered to help unload. I’m all good!

    • Idea

      You’re going to a warehouse store! You can probably buy shoes there or on the way!

  15. emeralds

    I’ve decided that my next out-of-my-comfort-zone athletic goal is doing a sprint triathlon. I know we’ve got some ladies who do tris here, so I was hoping you would share some beginner tips or good places to look for resources.

    I’m an experienced runner so I have zero concerns about the 5k. I’m not a fast or particularly skilled cyclist, but I’ll be able to finish it. But the swim is super-intimidating! I CAN swim, but I’ve never been a confident swimmer, and know I’ll have to work hard to get myself to a place where I can 1) swim the appropriate distance and 2) not panic and have a meltdown in open water. I assume some adult swimming lessons are in my future–any other advice?

    • AnonInfinity

      I did a sprint tri several years ago, and it was tons of fun! One thing I’m glad I did was find a local tri group that was very friendly to beginners. They had a weekly open water swim in a small lake in a subdivision here, and it boosted my confidence immensely to at least swim a little in open water before the big day. I did also take some swim lessons, and that was huge as well.

    • Anon

      Oh hey, this could have been me six months ago! I was a confident runner and cyclist but hadn’t been in a pool in years. I spent about a month swimming 2-3 times a week when I first started to build up some basic endurance before doing swim lessons. Speedo Australia has some beginner swim plans on their website that I loosely followed. After that, I did a few private lessons (my gym also offers group classes but they were at times I couldn’t make), and then continued mostly on my own. Because I was starting from a low swimming base, I made big improvements pretty quickly. By the end, I loved swimming!

      Re: open water, it’s not anyone’s favorite thing. If you feel more comfortable, you might find there are some indoor triathlons you could start with while you build up familiarity in the water.

      I would also look around to see if your city has any triathlon clubs/groups/meet-ups. It turns out there’s a lot of background knowledge about gear and such that I would have struggled to get otherwise. Many offer training plans, discounted gear, and social events. Mine was incredibly welcoming to newcomers! Mine also coordinates regular open water swim sessions so we can practice safely together.

      I recommend sprint triathlons to everyone. I found it more complicated but physically easier than training for a half marathon. I think working on a variety of disciplines also helps reduce injury rate, particularly of overuse injuries. You can do it!

    • cbackson

      How long is the swim? Sprint tris vary a bit in distance (the run is usually consistently 5K, but the bike and swim can be different distances). I’ve done one sprint, as well as a half-Iron distance Aquabike (so swim + bike, no run). My sprint had a 300-yard swim, and that was a pretty easy distance to work up to (the Aquabike was another story). They also had all first-timers start in the same wave, which was helpful.

      Agree with everyone else to look for a triathlon club – a LOT of triathletes come from a cycling or running background, so there are often really good opportunities to build both swimming skills and get up to the distance. My local tri club had a specific supported training program for newbies, which was great.

    • emeralds

      Thanks all! I did some googling and it looks like my local triathlon club is quite serious. But I’m active in the running community and know a bunch of folks who have done tris, so I’ll ask around and see if I can get any recommendations for a beginner-friendly group. Maybe the club is less intimidating than it looks.

      Depending on which race I decide to register for, the swim would be either 350m or 750m.

    • waffles

      You have had great advice already! I have a few things to add, as a VERY amateur sprint triathlete:
      – arrive early on race day. it takes forever to get your race kit, body markings, chip timer, park your bike, change into your wetsuit, etc etc etc. Give yourself lots of time
      – if you’re not comfortable with open water swimming, try to start at the back or the side of your wave. Some swimmers are super aggressive; I have had people literally swim on top of me. Don’t forget to stop periodically to make sure you’re still swimming in the right direction ;)
      – definitely practice swimming in a wetsuit, if you’re planning to use one. It feels a bit different. And practice how to take the wetsuit off as quickly as possible.
      – bring a bright or distinctive towel, leave it on your handlebars or in front of your bike. When you come in from the transitions, it’s really difficult to find your bike (and, after your bike ride, to find your running shoes)
      – I like to bike with bike shoes and without socks. It’s difficult to get your feet perfectly clean after the swim. Biking without socks gives your toes a chance to dry off, and it’s easier to brush sand off your dry toes before changing into socks and running shoes for the run
      – a race belt can be purchased relatively cheaply and it is helpful for the race. You can wear the number behind you for the bike and turn it to the front at the end of the run. Otherwise you’ll have to keep the number on your front through both, and that can get uncomfortable
      – bring a baseball cap for the run. Lake swim + helmet hair usually gives me an uncontrollable mess which is otherwise all in my eyes and super annoying. A cap will keep everying out of your way :)
      – HAVE FUN!! Tri races are usually a very supportive and festive environment. There are tonnes of first-timers or recreational racers.

    • Anon

      Choose a race that’s wetsuit legal. The wetsuit gives you a bit of extra buoyancy. Practice your transitions (ie getting out of your wetsuit) and don’t forget to have something on under your wetsuit :-) (tri-suit, tri-shorts and jersey, swimsuit if you want to be old-school).

      Where are you located (approximately)? We can probably point you toward a newbie-friendly race and/or club.

      Don’t feel like you need to spend a bunch of money on “stuff”. Side-eye anyone who tries to tell you that you *need* a time-trial bike. If you need to purchase a bike, find a lightly used road bike that fits you well. I don’t race much but when I do, I pass plenty of $10k bikes on my $500 hooptie. If you decide you’re really into the sport, by all means, go nuts… but until then, ride the bike you’ll get the most use out of. That is never, ever a time trial bike.

      Likewise, side-eye anyone who acts like Ironman races are the be-all and end all. They’re not, and you’re not less of an athlete if you don’t have the time/inclination to train for those distances. Get to know an experienced, non-jerk cyclist and learn how to handle a bike. Triathletes are notoriously poor bike handlers. Don’t be the person who makes a race unsafe for others because they can’t ride in a straight line.

      Practice running off the bike (brick workouts) approx. once per week or so leading up to the race. I come from a running background and running off the bike is a *very* different feeling. I used to have a “packing list” and a “stuff that novices need to know and the rest of you should read anyway” documents on a local race website I maintain and I seem to have taken them down. Rats.

      Practice putting socks on wet feet. Some running socks are better than others (Feetures are really good for this, my personal favorite Balega HiddenDry are NOT). Some triathletes eschew socks, but it’s totally a matter of personal preference.

      I recommend a USAT sanctioned race, simply because there are certain basic safety things and rules that must be addressed in order to be a sanctioned event. Additionally, a basic amount of insurance is provided in the unlikely event that you get hurt at the race.

      Have fun!

    • Women for Triathlon

      If you are on Facebook, the Women for Triathlon group is amazingly helpful.

    • Total Immersion

      Check out Total Immersion swim technique. There are books and videos. Very informative.

    • editrix

      Open water swimmer and dabbler in tris here — skip the wetsuit! It’s a pain and time-consuming to get on and off and it’s possible that you may overheat. Check the range of swim times for your age group in last year’s event. Know how long it takes you to swim 350 or 750 yards in a pool — likely a matter of minutes. Being a strong swimmer was never any help to me in triathlons! And finally, my observation is that swimming is a challenge for many people. Don’t be intimidated by a “serious” tri group.

    • Anon

      For context, I’ve only ever done one spring tri and I am a terrible swimmer. I did precisely two open water swims in advance of the tri and that was it for my swim training. I literally breast-stroked the entire swim and it was totally fine. I was the last one out of the water in my wave, but I took my time and then passed a bunch of people on the bike. Then I absolutely died on the run! But my point is that just take it slow and steady and you’ll be fine.

  16. Anon

    Random, but I’m going to all inclusive resort in Mexico soon and wondering what the standard for tipping is? Who much and to whom? USD or local currency? The last time I went to an all inclusive I was just out of college.

    • Anon

      Check the policy. Some resorts prohibit it, others encourage adding a lump sum tip at the end. Others encourage you to give cash every time you get a drink. Generally, USD are preferred but beyond that it’s kind of resort-specific.

    • OP

      There is no specific policy from what I’ve read online and in reviews. Just to tip in general

    • anonymous

      Check out the TripAdvisor forums. I believe I have seen this question posted there with lots of debate on whether to tip in US dollars or not. When we went a few years ago, I brought a bunch of $1s for tipping.

    • Dealtwiththis

      We bring $200-$250 in 1 dollar bills and tip everyone that gives us a drink. $1 per drink typically, more if they have been serving us all day poolside or something. We always feel silly going into the bank before we leave to ask for that many ones. We have asked the staff at the resorts in Mexico and they said that they prefer US dollars.

    • Anon

      Depends on the level of the resort. At a fairly nice but not absolutely top drawer resort in Mexico, we tip $1-2 for random drinks during the day and evening, $3-$5 for breakfast and lunch, $10-$20 for supper, $5-10 for maid, same for mini bar stocker, $5-10 for turn down service, $5-10 for bringing extra hangers, pillows, fixing something in the room, picking up or dropping off laundry and dry cleaning or other extra service. We get a reserved cabana and tip $20 the first day including maybe moving to a location we like better, and $10 daily after that for setting it up with towels and water and such. This is probably towards the top end of the tipping spectrum, but we are remembered and receive excellent service, and it is at least some sort of benefit for workers who are working hard to make our vacation great.

  17. anon

    How does one have fun? I’ve always been extremely ambitious, hardworking, dutiful, and did all the things that were rationally in my best interest. And the best interest of my loved ones. And I’m glad I have, truly. I’ve never had a super high level of enjoyment in my life, and part of that is on me for being kind of high strung and super type A about every thing. But I’d like to keep doing what I’m doing and get more enjoyment out of life and I’m not sure how to do it exactly. I do make time for the things that I enjoy (reading, working out, catching up with friends, travelling), and while I’d like to do more of some of those things, my feeling is that won’t totally solve the problem. My current hypothesis is that I need both 1. a mindset shift where I’m more present and just look for the joy in everyday situations and 2.) something new, like a new hobby or interest.

    Has anyone felt this way and have any wisdom to offer? Am I overlooking anything? How do I do items 1 and 2 above? I’m 30, married with no kids in a major East Coast city and work in consulting, if it makes any difference

    • Follow your Folly

      I had to have a massive emotional shift similar what you’re looking for after a near-death experience. I had realized that I had been so driven that I had forgotten to enjoy life in general (yikes).
      One of the things I found particularly helpful is to follow and foster your natural curiosity about the world. Rather than seeking one particular hobby to fill this part of your life, set aside time/money/resources to fulfill a whim of curiosity you might have had as a child- and when you no longer are interested in that idea or topic move on to another one. My great grandma always said that following your folly was the secret to a life well-lived, and I try to do these things in her memory.

    • Junior Associate

      I could have written your post, except I’m in biglaw and not married. Not sure I have much advice/insight as it’s very much in progress for me, but so much commiseration.

      For what it’s worth, I’ve made efforts to try different activities I hadn’t tried before but I might enjoy – baking (enjoyed the eating part, haha), yoga, massage, knitting (did not enjoy), pedicure, trying out small restaurants in a new neighborhood, therapy (actually helpful), pilates, weekend travel to closer destinations, random Coursera courses (I might be late to the party but there was a fantastic one on happiness from Indian school of business), learning a foreign language, lazying around in bed listening to a podcast/audiobook, taking a walk through an unusal route – and started a gratitude journal.

      I still feel something is lacking, but I’m trying to accept that it’s perfectly fine even if don’t make the most of every single waking moment, whether being productive or getting more enjoyment out of what little free time I have. Easier said than done, and generally kicks my anxiety up into high functioning / controlling mode at the same time… but sometimes it helps to be deliberate about doing nothing and letting myself play with whatever takes my fancy.

    • Flats Only

      This will sound like a broken record, but get checked for depression. Not “having fun” doing things you “enjoy” is a common symptom. Just start with your regular doctor – they can screen you and if necessary provide you with referrals.

    • Rainbow Hair

      What do you and your spouse do together that’s enjoyable? Do you go on adventures? “Going on an adventure” usually ends up being the most fun thing for me. When I was approx your age/life stage, I would do something like tell my partner I’d meet him after work, and show up with picnic stuff and a plan to take public transit to the beach. Or plan to go bar hopping in a neighborhood we don’t usually hang out in. You can plan to drive to [little town an hour outside of the city] to go antiquing with no particular goal. You can go camping!

      On a smaller scale, I love to play games. We play mancala a lot at home, and lately I’m obsessed with wordXchange, which I play with friends. When I go out with my girlfriends we sometimes play Telestrations, except without the game-game, just on scraps of paper. We do a drawing version of Exquisite Corpse too.

      Do you have kids you can play with? My four year old and I have lots of fun, usually when I follow her lead. We can make up silly rhyming songs, pretend to be mermaids, play hide and seek… kids are really good at having fun.

      For things I can do alone, nothing is more fun than Making Something. I’m on a huge sewing kick right now, but previously it’s been other crafts. I legit can’t wait to get home and go to my garage and start working on my next project.

    • anon

      Solidarity, here. I do “have fun” but sometimes I don’t feel like I’m actually enjoying life when I’m “having fun” and often feel like I’m not having enough fun. I used to be the most neurotic, uptight, serious, judgmental type A person ever (under a lot of circumstances) and I entirely devalued fun–but I’ve gotten over that. I am still serious, somewhat neurotic, hardworking, diligent, and type A, but it doesn’t impede me nearly as much as it used to. My current problem seems to be that I cannot fully relax. It’s hard to make emotional space for fun because I’m always worried about whether I’m getting behind at work or life chores or worried about spending money or worried about accidentally drinking one drink too many and feeling sluggish the next day. Even if I carve out the hours and enjoy myself, big picture, mentally I am not there. My routine is so entrenched and demanding. I do think being present is part of the solution. I think the other part is a sense of “play” rather than just “doing this activity that I enjoy.” Oddly, I’ve recently found myself craving the experience of wanting to run around and play ultimate frisbee (which is not something that I do and quite frankly I hate organized adult sports). I think what I want is to feel energized, care free, silly, in my body, and connected with others.

    • Anonymous

      I made a ‘before I’m 40’ bucket list and having a lot of fun working through stuff and adding stuff when inspiration strikes. Lots of fun new experiences.

        • Anonymous

          Lots of stuff – travel to South America, cycle through France, learn another language (German), try indoor rock climbing, learn to ice skate, learn to knit, try hot yoga (I just regular yoga now), learn to like sushi and oysters, visit Japan, see the polar bears in Churchill MB. Checked off learn to like olives and espresso which was accommplished on a trip to Kalamata last summer. Recently add ‘try pottery’, run a marathon and ‘sprint triathlon’ although the latter will require a lot of swimming lessons. Basically any time I think ‘that sounds cool’, I’ll often add it to the list. Try to pick 3-4 to knock off each year including one trip related item and add a couple. Been thinking about adding ‘learn to sing’ but that might be a lost cause. It’s about trying stuff, not becoming perfect at it.

    • anonforthis

      The day I decided to stop looking for personal satisfaction in my career was the day my happiness increased exponentially. I like my job as a now small firm litigator just fine, am good at my job, and take my job duties and client obligations seriously, but I really only work for the money, which I use now to be able to do the things I enjoy and which I will use in the future to retire early. My personal satisfaction comes from my plentiful hobbies, spending time outside, traveling, and chilling with my husband.

  18. Anon for this.

    I am considering taking a tenure-track position at a public two-year institution. Just for some background, because of consolidation, this institution is now a “college” within a large public four-year research university. I’m currently in a staff member and adjunct faculty member at an elite (think Vanderbilt) institution. Over the past couple of years, I’ve realized that teaching is my favorite part of the job. The pros to the new position would be I would be teaching full-time (no scholarship expectation – purely teaching focused), tenure, a good pension system, and summers/breaks off. It would be a paycut, but it would be doable. We have one child and were tentatively keeping the door open for a second, and this would probably close that door. My partner was never fully onboard with #2, so this may have been true anyway. I’m having a hard time getting past the prestige issue though, and it makes me fill a bit superficial. Anyone a tenure-line faculty member at a community college? How do you like it?

    • OP

      OP here. Sorry for the typos (fill v feel, etc.). Typing on phone. Just in case anyone is curious. I do not have any expectation that I could find a full-time teaching position at a four-year institution in my area, and I am geographically limited.

    • Anon

      Questions:
      1. How secure are your state pensions? Many states are looking at declaring bankruptcy, and their pension deficits are of the order of magnitude of their annual state budgets. The money simply isn’t there. Other states are in far better shape. Is your state in good shape? If not, is this a risk you are willing to take?

      2. How secure is the school? How good is the state’s funding for it? Is it financially stable and attracting enough paying students to keep the doors open for the next 20 to 30 years?

      3. What department will you be in? Is it something like English, wherein you would almost certainly always have a job, or an area like Philosophy, wherein the entire department could be cut?

      4. What are the protections for tenured professors if/when the institution needs to cut faculty positions?

      5. If you needed to leave because of the above, are you still employable?

      6. How do summers off alleviate the pay cut, i.e. are you spending a lot of money over the summers for daycare and camps for your kid?

      • OP

        The pension system in my state is in good shape. My state also allows new employees to opt into the pension system or a 401k plan, so that’s something I would need to explore with an accountant. The school has the largest # of freshman of any institution in the state. If I needed to leave (in case of divorce, termination, etc.), I feel pretty confident I would be employable in a higher ed admin role. Realistically, I’m not sure how much spending it would eliminate over the summer breaks because it’s only one kid. I also do some private teaching/training in my specialty area, so there’s the potential I could pick up more of that over the summer.

    • Anon

      I am not, but there is an Academic Mamas Facebook group with a substantial number of cc faculty. You might try posting there.

      If one of my grad students described their position and interests the way you do, I would advise them to take the cc job. You sound like a good fit for the kind of work.

      Academia is prestige obsessed (we have to be, to convince ourselves that the low pay is worth it) but I think once you’re outside of that game, you’ll realize how little anyone else cares, and how unimportant it really is.

    • Anonymous

      I’ve taught more and less educationally privileged students, and in many (not all) ways the latter experience is more rewarding. But it is very, very different. And some professors who are used to more exclusively privileged student populations do tend to frame teaching positions elsewhere as heroism, “missionary work,” or even martyrdom, which is generally really irritating. I’ve more than once been actually given “sympathetic” quasi-hugs or condescending pats by faculty who then launch into speeches about how people like me are needed, as if civilization would fall apart without my sacrifice. I also am not treated as much like a figurative card-carrying member of the same unspoken high prestige clubs. But sometimes it’s fun to be in the upstart club too.

    • Anon

      It sounds like a good fit for you. I wouldn’t care at all about the prestige, who cares what other people think. You enjoy teaching and it sounds like this job will fulfill you in many ways. The biggest thing I’d probably worry about would be the school going belly up and I think that’s much less of a risk if it’s part of a four year research university. I agree with the point the students might be better. My DH is a professor at a fairly prestigious public university and got his PhD at an extremely elite private university, and the best experience he ever had teaching was when he was doing a postdoc at a much less prestigious public school – he said the students there worked a lot harder and were much less entitled than the students at his PhD institution and his current institution.

  19. Vicky Austin

    What’s your favorite way to trick yourself into getting your veggies? (Especially at breakfast.)

    • Anonymous

      Probably depends what you eat for breakfast? Do you usually eat savory or sweet breakfast foods?

      I’m not generally spinach’s greatest fan, but I can admit that spinach, either creamed or wilted with a little lemon juice, goes well with eggs. So does just about any kind of squash or root vegetable, though you’d probably want to cook it in advance and heat it up in the mornings. Think “hashbrown” but go beyond potatoes (radishes are my favorite).

      Crudites with tzatziki is great and goes well with any sort of flatbread or toast.

      Berries + leafy greens is so popular in smoothies that the grocery stores around here sell pre-mixed frozen smoothie blends.

    • Anon

      Some things I do:
      1. Blend together frozen mango pieces, soymilk, oatmeal, and a hearty handful of spinach. You can’t even taste the greens, and the oatmeal makes the smoothie more filling.
      2. Toast topped with a bit of mascarpone and broccoli greens (or some sort of other sprouts) with raspberries or strawberries.
      3. Egg white scramble with spinach, chopped onions, and mushrooms with a bit of grated parm.

  20. Anon

    Ok what is the real deal with tipping at restaurants in Paris? I read Rick Steves last time I went and he suggested leaving just the change from whatever cash you paid with, but I mostly pay with my credit card, and all the waiters carry those handheld credit card machines, and there is no tip line. Also, subsequently I have read, I think on here, that you should tip. I’m going again soon and I don’t want to mess up.

    • Anonymous

      Carry small bills/coins and leave some change or before they ring it in you tell them to round up the credit card amount to account for the small tip. So if the bill is 47.80 Euros you say ‘please charge 50 Euros’ when you give them the card.

    • Cat

      We carry around a small amount of cash for this purpose. While generous American tips aren’t needed bc waiters are paid real wages, we’ll leave a few Euro as acknowledgment.

    • Equestrian attorney

      You never need to tip in France – service is definitely included by law. It is customary to leave a few euros IF you enjoyed the meal/service (like 5-10%). You do not ever need to tip if you didn’t enjoy the meal – you take your change up the very last cent if you’re so inclined. The credit card machines typically won’t have a tipping line so if you want to tip, you either need to leave cash or tell the person to input the amount manually (say the bill is 25, you can say “you can make that 30” when they type the amount. That being said, there are no formal rules for tip sharing so you’re never sure where that amount will go).
      If you buy coffee or something cheap, don’t feel like you need to tip, but if you pay cash (because most French businesses won’t take cards under five euros) it’s common to leave the change (so if you coffee was 2.50, you would 3). But again this is never mandatory and no one will really care if you don’t. It’s not expected in the way it is in the US.
      On the other hand, some amount of tipping (1-5 euros depending on cost) is definitely expected for haircuts, nails, beauty treatments etc. Also tour guides usually get a little something at the end.

      • Anonymous

        It’s built in but as OP notes, but throughout Europe it’s common to round up to the nearest euro or two max. Not necessary to round 35 to 40 etc. Post credit cards, it’s generally done by telling the server how much to charge on the card and they keep the difference between the bill and the amount charged to the card.

      • Anon

        A lot of people do tip in France, actually. It’s not as “mandatory” as it is in the US, where not tipping is considered very rude unless the service as absolutely horrible, but it is quite common and becoming increasingly more common.

  21. Anon

    Anything to do alone in Chicago on a Sunday evening? Landing around 5pm and staying at the Renaissance downtown by the Riverwalk.

    • Rainbow Hair

      What do you like to do? I would go out to eat/drink, for sure. From Clark and Lake you can take the Brown Line to Irving Park and go to Begyle, or maybe Fountainhead.

    • Original Moonstone

      I tried to think of what I like to do when I travel. Lots of places are closed Sunday night, but these are open:

      First, food (all within a half-mile of hotel):
      Are your meals getting expensed? Do you like seafood? Shaw’s Crab House on Hubbard is an old-timey restaurant. Walk in and turn right and sit at the Oyster Bar, where they serve the full menu.
      Are you paying for meals yourself and don’t need anything fancy? Star of Siam on Illinois is a local place with good Thai food. They would deliver to your hotel via Grub Hub but it’s an easy place to eat alone.
      Want to sit down in a nicer place with more options? Big Bowl on Ohio.
      Also, people like Eataly but it’s hard for me to figure out what restaurants will be open Sunday night.

      Now, fun (all within a mile of the hotel):
      Would you go to a low-key jazz show? There’s a new place called Winter’s Jazz Club on McClurg Court. The Chicago Jazz Orchestra is playing Sunday night. A ticket is less than 20 bucks.
      I like to go to the movies when I travel. The 600 North Michigan AMC is a few blocks away from your hotel (near all the food options).
      To tap into the city’s architecture, go to the John Hancock building and have an expensive cocktail in the Lounge on the 96th floor.

      I’m sorry the weather is not likely to be good, because a walk along the lake would be very nice at sunset.
      I hope you have a good trip!

  22. Anonymous

    I’m a biglaw senior associate daydreaming about living abroad. If this partnership thing doesn’t work out, then I think it’ll be time for a change, and not just a change to another firm. I know we have some international folks here – I’m interested in hearing your stories! What made you want to move? What did you do before and what do you do now? How do you like your life now vs. before?

    • Cb

      I worked in a nonprofit in SF and moved to Scotland for my master’s and stayed on for my PhD, and met my husband and had a baby along the way. I was pretty unhappy in my job and just needed a dramatic change and a challenge. I definitely got that. I am neutral on the UK as a whole but love the opportunity it has afforded me – really interesting work, semi-affordable living, etc.

    • Rainbow Hair

      I taught at a law school in [faraway land]. The whole point of my position was that I was from the US and could provide that perspective. The pay wasn’t great, but I loved the job and living abroad was (largely) super fun.

        • Rainbow Hair

          They were recruiting through my law school… but I was more junior than you are. Afterward I floundered around, got a job in the US through the network I developed in [faraway land], and now I’m in-house at a midsize not for profit that does some business in [faraway land] but it’s not really relevant to my day-to-day. Happy to chat in more detail offline, if you want to drop an email to rainbowhair + last four letters of thissite’s URL + google’s mail.

    • Houda

      Since I am a long time poster, many know the story but here goes: I worked in industry in my home country for years. Had a rough couple years as my mum was dying and following an accident where I was framed by corrupt law enforcement but delivered on my work. I was unfairly put on PiP the week after my mum passed away (I missed her funeral to be at work), hR was against it, but I was not a local headcount and my heinous manager did that to get rid of me when he was quitting (didn’t know that part until later). Passed the PiP so had good record that my performance was not bad but then was made redundant a month later and offered a step-down role but keeping the high salary. I said eff this and moved to Europe into management consulting. Worked crazy hours, usually 16-18 hours every day and made zero friends in 2 years. Got in a “either me or her” situation with a partner and the partner obviously won so I left and moved countries again. Now, I am in London, still in consulting and happy.
      Each time that I changed countries, it was following a big injustice and me not wanting to have anything to do there. I am hoping this one is the right place… three is a charm right?

  23. Anon

    Was just wished a Happy Administrative Professionals Day. I’m not an admin. Sigh.

    • Anonymous

      I am literally a secretary, because we have terrible, archaic job titles here and not because I do actual secretarial work. I have a bouquet sitting on my desk and was just hugged and thanked for my efforts by someone well below me on the food chain. Could be worse!

    • Anon

      If was a non-admin who said it (or wrote it), you could have replied, “Happy Administrative Professionals Day to you too!”

    • anon

      I got a $25 gift card to celebrate all my hard work.

      – a CPA who works with lawyers (apparently if you’re not a lawyer, you’re a secretary!)

    • Anonymous

      You just saved my butt. Off to get my assistant a gift card. I know that wasn’t the intent of your post but thanks!

  24. Raise Above Market?

    Does anyone have advice on how I should ask for a raise over what my “market value” is? I am technically an admin but my role is very unique to the company, I have a variety of duties beyond the scope of a traditional EA or admin and I am in a very small group of key managers that make all important decisions.

    A lot of my colleagues have more defined roles and I know they can always point to “market” but my job duties don’t necessarily align with someone else with the same title.

    I also haven’t had anything but a 3% cost of living increase in a few years.

    Any input would be appreciated.

    • Anon

      You sound like an actual Executive Assistant, not an admin with a fancy title. (No shade against admins – the shade is against the upping of titles that don’t align with job descriptions.)

      Do some serious market research into what executive assistants make when they have the duties that you have. According to salary.com, about 25% of EAs make at least $93k a year. Duties:
      “[…]Reviews, prioritizes, directs and delegates a wide variety of complex and confidential requests that are presented to the executive for consideration. Summarizes, prioritizes, and researches information into a concise and usable format for the executive to review.[…] Creates or directs creation of reports, charts, budgets and other presentation materials for the executive.[…] Has a broad knowledge and understanding of the company’s operations and business objectives.[…]”

      • Raise Above Market?

        I think that may be an apt comparison. By job descriptions I am reviewing for an ops manager I would say I share a significant amount of these duties with my leadership group but don’t handle it entirely alone. The other title that has been thrown around is “chief of staff” though that is very startup and fluffy. We are a small company but not a true startup.

        I know it is not helpful for me to go into more detail about my duties but I am leery of going into too much detail to avoid outing myself.

    • anon

      It also sounds like you need a title change. Sometimes titles can suppress the salary.

  25. Nordstrom personal shopper in Northern VA?

    Checking again in hopes of more eyeballs in the morning than late afternoon — Any recommendations for a Nordstrom stylist in the DC area — preferably Pentagon City? Looking to amp up my work wardrobe as a biglaw senior associate.

    • Anon

      I would try Tyson’s over Pentagon City. I’ve found the stores at Pentagon to be in bad shape and overrun with tourists. Tyson’s has more suburban moms shopping there, but also a store in better shape with a greater variety of options (and many of those suburban moms are working at one of the companies out that way and need professional clothing too).

    • j

      It’s been a few years, but I’ve had great luck with Nataley Shea, who I believe is at both Pentagon and Tysons. Her email is first . last at Nordstrom . com (obviously replace her name)

      • Anon

        I’ve also used Nataley and found she pushed me into expensive clothing that was not that flattering.

    • CapHillAnon

      I really liked the stylist Jason Barrow at P City Nordstrom. He helped me last autumn, so I’m guessing he would still be there. I needed advice and guidance on both casual clothes and work pants, and he was a huge help on both. Good luck!

  26. Pegasus

    Can anyone recommend a gift idea for a friend who is graduating from an executive MBA program? She is staying in her current job for the immediate future but has aspirations of moving up. I considered the book Crucial Conversations, recommended above for a new manager, but then I thought she might have read it already as part of her program. She has worked really hard to complete this program with a FT job and young kids, and I’m really proud of her for getting through it.

    • Senior Attorney

      Business card case with her name and “MBA?” Offer to have her diploma framed (although that can get expensive in a hurry)? Bottle of champagne?

  27. Anon

    Help on even division of labor please. Husband recently started a new job that involves a 40 min commute each way. My commute is 5 min. He works 9.5 hour days and is gone 7:30am-6:30pm. I wake up at 6:30, make breakfast, get ready, see DH off, wake up kid, daycare dropoff (close by), at work by 8:45, daycare pickup at 5:45, make dinner. We eat around 7, then bedtime routine, kid in bed by 9. I have about 1.5 hours at night before I start falling asleep. Sometimes I have to work more, sometimes we watch TV or talk. Overall this is pretty doable. However, it bothers me that husband dropped most household responsibilities. I can see there is not a lot of room for him to pick up duties, but what what are other people with similar schedules doing? We split bedtime about 50/50, usually he reads the first book while I clean dishes. I think we could change that to him doing dishes during my book which would help me feel less like a full on servant. Any other ideas?

    • anon

      I would suggest that he does more on the weekends, whether it’s one-on-one time with the kiddo or helping with dinner prep that will streamline your life during the work week when he’s commuting.

    • CHL

      We have kind of a similar thing I have a housekeeper / nanny come a couple times a week. She does a lot of meal prep, laundry, tidying up and picks up kids at daycare. General chores that someone has to do but it doesn’t have to be me or my husband and makes it possible for us to enjoy more time together.

    • anon in brooklyn

      For me, the biggest division of labor issue isn’t number of responsibilities done, but whether I’m doing housework while he’s relaxing on his phone. So we have a household rule that, in the evening after work, neither of us gets to sit down and relax until all the chores and bedtime routines are done.

    • Anon

      My commute is 75+ minutes, DH’s is more like 25. A housekeeper does our weekly cleaning, leaving us with dinner and laundry. We split the chores – if you made dinner, the other person does the dishes; if you started the wash, the other person folds it. DH usually preps dinner since he’s home before me, and then starts cooking when I walk in the door (giving me about 15-20 minutes to unfrazzle from traffic), and I do all the clean-up.

    • Parfait

      My fiance works longer hours and has a longer commute. I take care of dinner AND dishes, because I am a much better cook, I get home first, and I *hate* waiting for someone else to do the dishes. I seethe. It’s better this way.

      He does most of the things that don’t have to happen every day at the same time, and yes, he does the emotional labor of remembering. I don’t have to ask him. He does all the laundry, garbage and recycling, vacuuming, mopping, grocery shopping, target runs for household things, financial record-keeping…other stuff I am not thinking of, probably. It all adds up to a lot, even though none of those things are necessarily daily. Oh he does clear the table and wipe down the counters and tables while i am dishing. which is great.

      I realize not having kids makes this all a lot easier – kids mean that the must-do-daily chores expand a lot. But maybe this would be a helpful way to think about dividing things up. Each person needs to do a certain number of the daily things, and if you are fortunate enough to have fewer daily things, you need to step it up on the rest of the things.

  28. Silly Valley

    Go for it! Getting into a tenure-track position, even at a ‘lower-status’ institution, is always a good bet with the current state of academia, IMO. In addition it allows you to a) do more of the teaching that you enjoy and b) doesn’t preclude a move in the future. I had a professor in my master’s program who went from a CSU to Stanford; not exactly the same but still a big jump in status, so it is possible. And although it might be challenging time-wise, you can keep up your scholarship (I suppose if you’re in a hard science and need pricey equipment/a lab, it might be hard).
    My mother taught math at a middling private university, mostly to nursing and education students, and found it a lot more interesting and rewarding than teaching math majors.

  29. Anon

    Speaking of tipping, what the correct etiquette for tips while buying coffee? I don’t buy coffee often (like once every 4 months) and am always stumped by the tip line when paying (this is kind of new, right? Maybe in the last 5 years?). It seems that the max is 30%, the min is 15% and the next one down is no tip. What is the correct amount? Do baristas make real wages? Maybe I’m not understanding the business model entirely, but when they are selling me a cup of coffee with steamed milk for $4 that takes 2 minutes to make, it seems there should be enough margin on that product already or no? And do the tips actually make it to the employees?

    • Anon

      I have thought the same thing. Now that most independent coffee shops use Square or similar products, the tipping line shows up by default and I feel prompted to tip in a way I never did before, so I usually do, but then even the smallest drink will be $5-6!

    • Anon

      I’ve worked in coffee shops, although granted it was back in the day before CC were so wide spread and the tip pool was just a jar by the register. I’m a firm believer that you don’t have to tip for food purchased and picked up from a counter. Most people don’t tip at deli shops, salad shops, pizza places when they pick it up, grocery stores, etc. The people working at those places all make about the same, generally a little over minimum wage for the area.

    • FFS

      It drives me crazy. The most I’ll do at Starbucks or the like is round up or drop my change in, but I seldom get things there. I go to a local coffee/bakeshop that uses Square where I do tip, but that’s because if the owner is the one ringing me up, he usually gives me free stuff and doesn’t turn around the screen to even let me add a tip. So I feel good about paying it forward and tipping the employees when they ring me up.

      • anon

        Same, especially since I usually just get drip coffee, no fancy drink that they have to make.

    • Eertmeert

      I tip $1/drink. If i can’t add tip on credit card, i don’t tip.
      I would increase the tip of they hand build a sandwich in addition to my coffee, but if just adding pre-made sandwich or heating up pastry, nope.

    • thehungryaccountant

      I tip at local cafes where I am a regular – generally about 15%. I do not think tipping is required for counter service, however why not tip your local baristas if you have the budget to do so?

    • emeralds

      I worked in coffee shops for years, and can confirm that baristas are paid at least minimum wage and do not work for tips like restaurant servers. But it’s in the service industry, so tips are very much appreciated!

      The preferred “standard” at the more upscale place I worked was: no tip expected on food, tea, or drip coffee; round up or tip $1 per beverage using espresso or steamed milk, or a more “complex” coffee like a French press or a pour-over. I’m happy to tip the dollar–at this point it doesn’t make much of a difference in my own financial life, but I remember how much of a difference it DID make when I was hustling for $8/hour.

      • Anonymous

        I always tip change for drip or something pre-prepared and $1 for anything the barista had to prepare for me. I love coffee and only really go to coffee shops where I will still feel like whatever I paid was a steal, since the coffee is just so good. If I tipped at mediocre coffee shop it would be more about the minimum wage consideration. There is one very pricey coffee shop near me that is part of some “living wage” movement and seems to discourage tips.

  30. Anon

    I was supposed to go to Chicago this weekend with my 15 month old. I’d hoped to take her to the zoo and do a lot of stroller walking, but it looks like it’s going to be really cold and rainy. I’m hesitant to take her to a space like a children’s museum because we’re traveling internationally soon and I don’t want her to get sick right before we head out on that trip. She’s also not yet walking so I’m not sure how much she’d get out of it anyway. Does anyone have any indoor things that would be fun for a kid this age who is not yet walking? Or should I just cancel the trip? (We’re driving so no issue of cancelling plane tickets.) Bleh. I love you Chicago, but why is your weather such a bummer!?

    • Anonymous

      If you aren’t willing to take her to indoor spaces because you’re traveling soon, just cancel.

      • Anon

        Not all indoor spaces, just children’s museums/playplaces where she’d be crawling all over and interacting with lots of other little kids. I’m fine walking her in a stroller inside. But I’m having a hard time thinking of what to do – I think she’s too young to get anything out of the major museums. Maaaybe the aquarium but I feel like even that’s borderline, and it’s expensive and really far from where we’re staying. The big draw of the zoo was that it’s free and super close to our hotel.

    • Anonymous

      Shedd Aquarium. Navy Pier. Peggy Notaebart nature museum. Museum of Mexican Art. Garfield Park Conservatory. The zoo has several indoor areas, like the butterfly exhibit and primate areas, where you can warm up. Plus, bundled up kiddos in strollers don’t seem to mind the rain as much as parents.

    • Anonymous

      I assume you mean Lincoln Park Zoo? Lincoln Park Conservatory, Garfield Park Conservatory. An uber to the Museum District and hit up Shedd, Adler Planetarium, Museum of Science and Industry, Field Museum. I do think you can still go to the LPZ, there are a lot of indoor areas and the outdoor part isn’t ginormous. That being said, Chicago during nice weather is like an entirely different city…

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