Wednesday’s TPS Report: Piped-Trim Printed Silk Blouse

294 Comments

1. SO and I had originally planned to get married this year, but I calculated our expected tax burden, which has given me pause. It’s not like I wanted to get married for financial reasons, but at the same time, I’m not terribly romantic about the subject. We’re both higher than average earning individuals, don’t want kids, and will both separately have more than enough money in life, so it seems like most of the financial/tax perks people ascribe to marriage probably won’t be all that helpful. As it stands, we get all of the benefits of cohabitation and sharing expenses.

   I would like to be legally married, but it’s not of overwhelming importance. Am I missing potential benefits of legal marriage here? Has anyone else given this a lot of thought?

   1. If you go to a website advocating same-sex marriage nationwide, they problably have a list of the numerous benefits of legal marriage. Would you sign other legal documents as a substitute so that you could be the next of kin for each other and sign documents on each other’s behalf?

      1. Yeah, I’ve looked at such sites. I guess I should have phrased my question more like “if this is something you’ve thought about, what made you decide one way or the other?”

         1. I think about divorcing my husband every 12/31 and remarrying him the next morning (or maybe a civil union would work, but not sure what my state does for straight people who try that). Had to explain AMT and the marriage penalty to a gay friend recently who was going to get married — it was a rude awakening for him.

            Inertia explains why I stay married (and inertia is running low this time of year since the 1099s are coming in). And husband’s vastly cheaper health insurance.

            1. Please don’t do this. It’s basically tax fraud. Check out IRS Pub 504.

            2. What MNF said. If it wasn’t tax fraud, I’d have already done it. I wish we had just done the religious marriage with our Rabbi, and done everything else via trusts and legal documents. Tax burden would be much lower.

            3. Hey there MNF, she knows. I think it was more of a joke about marriage. In that, she loves her husband more than she loves paying more in taxes.

            4. OK Sorry. As someone who practices in this field, I actually get asked this question a lot when people find out about the marriage penalty! By smart professionals. So not that far outside the realm of possibility.

   2. Well, I am a romantic myself, but can see your point, a least on some fronts. If we are talking about just purely practical considerations, think about what might happen to you if you were to become ill or disabled. Without a legal marriage, your SO could just say “see ya” and walk away, potentially leaving you in a lurch. I know that he could still do that with a legal marriage, but at least you would have some access to his money, retirement funds, etc. in a divorce scenario. Without it, you would have to prove some sort of palimony or common law marriage, depending on where you live, which is usually a much more daunting prospect.

      Also you may want to consider the benefits that you and/or your potential children would be entitled to if there were some accident that caused your potential husband’s death/disability. You and/or your minor children would then be able to access his Social Security earnings for support. I believe your minor children could do that even without a legal marriage, but there would be significantly more hoops to jump through.

      If you and your SO have children, at least in my state, they are not presumed to be his children unless you were legally married. I am sure SO is a great guy, but I would hate for something to go awry and you to have to sue for child support and go to the trouble of proving paternity, which is what you would have to do where I live.

      All of these are gloom and doom scenarios that are unlikely to happen, but are practical considerations that argue in favor of marriage. You and your SO may be high enough wage earners that this is not a big deal for you, but still something to think about.

      On the emotional side, there is still something really special about standing up in front of special people in your life and expressing your love and commitment to each other.

      1. Also consider in the above where if you are sick or disabled, or otherwise unable to attend to your own needs, the courts will look for the next of kin, not necessarily the person that YOU want your decisions to be made by. I don’t know if you can hammer out all these details with legal documents in absence of marriage, but YMMV.

         I say this only because I have experienced it with a friend whose SO died suddenly and unexpectedly, and she was left trying to navigate his passing, and literally competing with his very estranged and legitimately crazy family.

   3. It’s cute you think you can plan ahead for your whole life to “have more than enough money.” Right. Sure. Nothing bad or unexpected ever happens.

      Cohabiting and sharing expenses without marriage is basically giving each other money. Personally, I want the protections of being legally entitled to an equitable share of the life I build with someone.

      1. Yeah, my masters degree, professional-career, high-earning husband is now fully disabled and unemployable due to a fluke disease. Definitely not what he expected.

         1. I think that cuts both ways, though. If the OP were legally married, how would the situation you describe be different (especially if she has appropriate POA documents in place)?

            1. I realize that this is in flux and varies state to state, but the protections of FMLA to care for a spouse come to mind. Also, there may be survivor benefits for Social Security Disability benefits available to a spouse.

            2. If she were legally married and that happened to her, she would have access to her husbands money since she could no longer work. Otherwise he can just say “no thanks, I am out.” and leave

            3. FMLA is the big one I was thinking of. But also continued support for the person who is unexpectedly unable to work. Personally I want to know I’m legally entitled to our communal assets and my partner can’t just walk away if things change.

            4. …but if the parties engaged in appropriate contractual planning before the fact, that’s not true. Sure, it’s more work, but you can protect assets without marriage. It is true that you won’t have FMLA, though.

               Depressingly, though, your spouse can definitely bail on you if you get sick. You have some legal protections in that case (without having to do the contractual work described above), but I think it’s only incrementally superior to the protections available to an unmarried couple that has done solid work to address division of assets before the fact.

               (My SIL works with same-s*x couples in our state, which does not allow them to marry, on this type of planning.)

            5. In response to Anonymous who said “If she were legally married and that happened to her, she would have access to her husbands money since she could no longer work. Otherwise he can just say “no thanks, I am out.” and leave”

               This. My mom is dating someone now who basically had this exact thing happen to him. He’d cohabitated with someone for 17 years, and then when he needed major surgery and was completely disabled for 6 months, she decided she wasn’t into it and bounced. He was lucky enough to have family around to step in, both financially and to provide assistance physically while he recovered, but still – had they been married, there at least would’ve been some sort of financial support required if she’d divorced him under those circumstances.

               In general, legal marriage, to me, is about protecting both of us in the worst-case scenarios – divorce, death, disability, grave injury, etc. If that means we pay a higher tax burden while we’re living our best-case scenario, I’ve taken to viewing that as kind of like buying insurance – mostly, you don’t need insurance at all, but when you need it, you *really* need it, and whatever you’ve paid for the last 5 or 10 years that you haven’t used it at all is suddenly well worth it. As cbackson points out, you can certainly contract your way into many of those protections without legally marrying (same-sex couples have been doing it for years), but for my H and I, it was ultimately just simpler to marry and deal with the tax issues.

            6. cbackson, i think yes, its incremental, but in the time of need that increment can be huge.

               here is just one example of a gay couple where one was unable to visit their dying spouse despite having a durable power of attorney. at times like this do you really want to go in to court to enforce your contract or do you want it to be automatically granted by state/federal law?

               http://www.examiner.com/article/there-is-no-substitute-for-gay-marriage#ixzz1NKkfUcOb

            7. Look, I’ve been an advocate for SSM since I was old enough to understand that gay couples couldn’t marry (and I’m old enough that this was then controversial enough that my parents were worried that my high school advocacy on this topic would keep me from getting into college), so I’m very, very aware of the benefits of legal marriage. The case you cite (which is from 2009) brought that issue to the fore for many, many people. But legal marriage is no guarantee that you will not face challenges regarding these issues (postmortem family feuds over asset division are sadly common, and even a legal spouse may not be free from interference in making medical decisions – just ask Michael Schiavo), and (sadly) a straight unmarried couple is likely not going to face the same resistance that a gay couple will in this situation.

   4. Second Alana that there are a lot of legal benefits, but most can be created by contract and estate planning instead, and the ones that can’t are generally unlikely to come up. That said, the contracting/planning issue is a) complicated and expensive, and b) rarely done, so going to be hard for people (including courts, should it ever be necessary) to understand. (Back when I was a family lawyer, I very briefly flirted with the idea of trying to put together some sort of same-sex-marriage-substitute package for couples in my conservative state, but ultimately decided that it would be too complicated and not likely to appeal to enough potential clients to really be worthwhile.)

      Personally, really think that there are a lot of social and emotional benefits to marriage that would outweigh most financial detriments (as a lifelong thing, it’s more than just the benefits of cohabitation), but I understand that some people feel differently. Have you considered speaking to an accountant regarding the tax consequences? There may be ways to minimize any detriment.

      1. What social and emotional benefits of marriage are you thinking of that aren’t also available to people permanently committed cohabitation arrangements?

         1. Being treated as married, having your relationship recognized as permanent by friends and family, not having people constantly roll their eyes when you explain how you’re too rich to get married so instead you’re in a “permanently committed cohabitation arrangement.”

            1. I agree with this. I can only speak to my relationship and can’t quantify anyone else’s commitment obviously. I lived my fiance before marriage. Clearly we were in a committed cohabitation relationship. But, I have to say that there is something about being partnered with this person for life through a formal commitment that feels different and stronger.

            2. Is it that weird though to present yourselves as married without having it legally in writing somewhere? No need to explain it to anyone then, and obviously this wouldn’t be done for official purposes where the legal designation matters.

            3. Agree with Mascot, as someone who also lived together before marriage.

               Re: Anonymous 9:53 – I don’t know if it’s that weird, but it’s dishonest. Most people would feel lied to if they found out that you’d done that. Obviously, there’s nothing to really stop you from doing so, if that’s what you want to do, but I’d wonder what else you were lying about.

            4. Yeah, it’s weird to lie to people about being married when you’re not.

            5. Plus, everyone would wonder why they weren’t invited to your wedding, unless you fake elope.

            6. well regardless of legal status, we’re not having a wedding, and also regardless of legal status, we plan to elope.

            7. Sorry, but if this is the case you need new family and friends. Other people’s bad manners shouldn’t dictate your life choices.

            8. Define “married.” We had a wedding, signed a Ketubah….if we hadn’t turned in the legal documents to the county clerk, we would have absolutely been married, just not recognized by the government. I do wish the government would just get out of the marriage business completely. Figure out some kind of civil union for everyone. Lose the tax penalty.

         2. There’s an enormous amount of social reinforcement of and support for marriage (as well as structures to help married couples in relationship difficulties heal the marriage) that isn’t fully present in the same way for cohabitating couples.

            1. ..and in my weird state, cohabiting ( even for a short time period) and “holding yourselves out” as married, makes you common law married. Not what lots of people intend. . . .

         3. It’s hard to explain, and mostly intangible. Perhaps there’s something to the straight-up lack of a good word for it in our language, but there’s a huge, huge cultural space between “boyfriend” (a term which can mean anything from the guy a 12 year old holds hands with in the hallway to a life-long-partner) and “husband.” In terms of social benefits, anonymous above pointed some out (yes, sorry, people do internally roll their eyes); there’s also the added (emotional and social) commitment benefit of getting up before the public and committing, rather than just sort of deciding to be committed. Emotionally, it simply says to the other person that I want to be as close to you as I can possibly be, to hold nothing back. Marriage also conveys an intent (yes, an imperfect one) to weather life’s changes, from young to old, from job and health changes and all other stages of life, while cohabitation rarely appears to consider beyond what appears to be best for the current situation.

            That’s not a perfect explanation – most of it is really beyond explanation. And obviously, it’s generalized – there are terrible marriages and ideal cohabitations. But I will not for a second agree that there is not a difference between marriage and committed cohabitation.

            1. I understand what you’re saying, and I might even think you’re right. What I’m trying to figure out is how person/couple dependent this is. For example, I think it is possible for two people to be that committed and view themselves as married without a state-sanctioned marriage. So clearly, some/ a lot of these benefits are the ideational factors that individuals ascribe to them. I’m sure many still intangible benefits don’t fit this description though. I’m interested in how much/what fits into the second category.

            2. To me there’s just a huge difference between viewing yourselves as being that committed, and actually legally being bound to each other. You can say you’re just as committed all you want, but actually factually you aren’t.

            3. I am not married or cohabiting, so take this with a grain of salt, but the title essay in “This is the Story of a Happy Marriage” by Ann Patchett explains this benefit of marriage pretty well.

            4. I think that a good way to think about it is to consider why, in Washington state, where same-s*x civil unions were precisely legally equivalent to marriages as a matter of state law, it was still important enough to many people that the law was ultimately changed to allow same-s*x couples to marry. There is an intangible emotional difference, aside from legality, that really matters to many people.

         4. I noticed that I started being treated differently by my colleagues when I got married. I was now in some sort of “club” where my relationship was respected more than when I was cohabitating/engaged. I can’t explain why.

      2. Or, and I know this is cray, but just paying the taxes because you make a ton of money, are enjoying the financial benefits of sharing expenses, and can afford to do so?

         1. It’s not just financial; I’m looking at all practical/non-romantic benefits and drawbacks. Chances are we will get married anyway. I’m just wondering what thoughts others have had about the practical side of things.

            1. What are the other drawbacks (non-financial) that you have in mind? Just curious – as a very early supporter of SSM (as in, back when no national Democrat would dare express anything near support of it), and a fairly conservative one at that, this is something that I’ve thought a lot about. I’m always looking to tweak my arguments to conservative friends as to why civil unions and such are not an acceptable substitute. :)

            2. Honestly, I haven’t thought of any. I’m pretty sure I’ll just get married anyway. The financial aspect is what prompted me to think of this in more detail, and I wanted to widen the discussion beyond that to basically everything that isn’t romantic. I do agree that civil unions are not an acceptable substitute :)

         2. I’m wondering when the law will catch up to address people that “act married” but are not married to avoid financial obligations/penalties. The more egregious ones that come to mind are people that get alimony until remarriage and then cohabitate for 10+ years with a rich other half while still getting alimony. Many states say you can’t take the income of a non-spouse into account. I think in the future, subsidies will require disclosure of household income and income of anyone with whom you have cohabitated for 2+ years. But then how do we define who are roommates and who are cohabitating? The standard could be whether you share a bed but do we really want the government coming to check on that? Not sure what a good solution would be.

            1. Agreed. Whenever I saw alimony come up in practice, there was usually some sort of provision about cohabitating in it, but it’s obviously something that gets a little gross to police. I don’t like, well, much of anything about income tax, but the idea of people living as if they are married but not to dodge taxes (not saying that’s what the OP is contemplating, and I don’t really begrudge anyone for honestly using a legitimate loophole – this is a complaint about the system) is a little troubling, too. I’m not sure how to handle this – I wonder if we’ll see a return to common law marriages at some point.

            2. Never. Because we’d also have to get at people who act unmarried but are married for financial reasons. And we don’t want to do that either.

            3. Wildkitten: We already do that. Off the top of my head I can think of immigration and military benefits. Ask anyone with a foreign spouse the process they go through to prove their marriage is legit. Years into the marriage they still have to go for immigration interviews and answer questions about their lifestyle. You get paid more when you deploy if you are married. It is illegal to marry someone just for that extra money, split it but not really intend to be married post deployment. If someone gets married right before they die and they have a pension that is also investigated.

            4. I was imagining the loveless marriages that remain because of the kids and the mortgage.

      3. I agree with this. Another thought – for one person, committing to the relationship sans marriage may be enough to plan to stick around for all of life’s ups and downs. And maybe you meet someone who feels the same way. But given the societal power of marriage, deep down, most people view that as the ultimate commitment because you need to legally unwind it if you split up. And your partner may not ever be as committed to you as you’d really want if you don’t get married. I’m the opposite of Lyssa – liberal, left wing, live in the most radical part of the country and while I respect everyone’s right to live in the relationship that works for them, I would never feel committed in the build a total life together way to someone I wasn’t married to. And I don’t plan to have kids either.

         1. What is the most radical part of the country?

      4. There is absolutely no way to contract every benefit of marriage while avoiding the official contractual designation of marriage. No way. Yes, there are some things you can do but none will ever replicate all of the benefits of marriage with none of the downsides.

         Dude as an accountant, I’m so sick of people wanting all of the upside and none of the downside. That’s not how life (or risk) works. Anyone who tells you otherwise is trying to sell you something. Its that simple.

   5. Yes. I am waiting for when I feel like the benefits outweigh the cost – taxes, price of the ceremony, rings. Obviously the ceremony and rings are optional but I want them, and don’t yet feel that I want marriage enough to pay for those now. I assume some day I will feel differently.

      1. What makes you think you’ll feel differently someday? And what do you see the benefits as?

         1. I would want the legal and societal stability of marriage if I were to have kids with my partner.

            1. That makes sense. If you weren’t going to have kids for sure, would that change your sentiment?

            2. Yes. I also think it is important for buying property, but I think there are ways to give yourself similar protections through contracts, like Alana says above.

   6. I am interested in this conversation. As the much higher earning partner (currently, my SO is not working), I am hesitant to get married because while I might personally receive some tax benefits, I’m not ready to let him be legally entitled to my earnings. Everyone always makes the “when you have children” argument, but we’ll cross that bridge when we get there.

      1. Honestly, why on earth would you marry someone who isn’t working? I mean, sure everyone has times when they’re unemployed, but just not working? Nope. If I wanted to spend all my money supporting someone helpless for life, I’d have a baby. Or several cats.

         1. With people I know this happens because you want your partner to have access to your employer-sponsored health insurance.

         2. because, according to many of the above commentators, there’s more to marriage than money?

      2. Does he know you feel this way — that his financial success is a prereq. to your long-term commitment? In fairness to him, you really should make that clear, or just let him off the hook so both of you can build a life with someone more compatible.

         1. Or they could get a pre-nup.

         2. Ummm sorry when did she condition long-term commitment on financial success? She said she’s hesitant to give someone who is not working a legal entitlement to her earnings. I got from that a lack of interest in supporting someone who is not interested in/capable of supporting himself at all, not some sort of required minimum salary.

         3. Reverse the situation – if anon 9:45 were a guy, and he was dating a woman who wasn’t working, the assumption would be that the girlfriend would become a stay-at-home-spouse, right? Maybe that’s not something the poster wants?

            It’s mercenary to refuse to marry someone unless they make over six figures a year. It’s not mercenary to want to be in a marriage with someone who can support themselves, and to be in a partnership instead of being entirely responsible for the financial support of a marriage.

            1. Maybe the non-working person is in grad school.

            2. True, that’s possible, but that wasn’t the implication I got. I would understand the poster not wanting to disclose too much information in this situation, though.

   7. How much is the difference? I haven’t ever thought about it, but am very curious. Does it matter if you file separately vs jointly?

      Aside from the ability to medical decisions, inheritance, benefits of divorce if you split up, etc, which could all possibly be solved, I supposed there aren’t that many big reasons to marry if you’re committed to being childless and both plan to work at your jobs and live in the same city together forever and will never have to compromise your career for your spouse’s. Of course you never know what will happen in life without a crystal ball, so there’s that to consider. I guess the downside is that you’d be branded as “too cheap to be married” and it’s not exactly romantic, but if you don’t care about being married, who cares?

      1. I just looked it up out of curiosity, and was shocked that my husband and I pay a marriage penalty. We make decent money on 2 engineers’ salaries, but are certainly not rich. For us, based on the online calculator, it is approximately 1.5% more, which comes out to a couple of thousand dollars. It sounds like the more you make, the more that would increase. For couples approaching a combined $500k a year, it was something like $50k more per year. That’s nuts.

         1. But the tax code was initially written before it was common for people to cohabitate. Typically a dual income family can afford to pay more in taxes than a single income family.

   8. I’d read some of the marriage cases, particularly Lovings v. Virginia and Goodrich v. Dept. of Public Health, and see if what they say about the meaning behind civil marriage strikes a personal chord. If it doesn’t then I think you have your answer.

      1. I love this extremely nerdy yet romantic lawyer answer.

         1. +1000

         2. +2000

         3. +3000

            I often use readings from Goodrich when I perform civil marriages.

         4. Thanks!

      2. And Windsor (US SCt).

   9. The biggest one is that your spouse is automatically your next of kin if you die or are gravely disabled. As you stand now probably your parent or sibling would be called to make decisions for you if you have no other POA in place. It’s not very romantic….

      1. Geeking out as a lawyer here but don’t assume that your spouse is your POA or automatically inherits. Know your state’s law. Some are wonky. Until recently, my state had no automatic medical decision maker provision. You had to have a POA or go to court even if married. That has since changed. If you die without a will in some states, your parents get a percent of your estate, even your siblings. Your spouse does not get 100%. If you don’t like that, get a will.

         1. so true – in DC, the parents get 50% if you die with a spouse but no children and no will. I was shocked!

         2. We are finally doing our will, and I am finding out that A LOT of what I assumed with estate laws is totally wrong.

   10. You should DEFINITELY marry the guy–life is more than taxes. If you should become disabled, you will have HIM to support you (and VIZA VERZA). Similarly, if he should die first, you will inherit his estate. You do NOT get that if you are just playing house, even if you are haveing sex. And even if you dont want kid’s now, things happen. If you have sex with him which MOST women do, you could get pregenant, and its better to be MARRIED than single, particularly if you are pregenant with child. FOOEY on being singel with child. Everyone look’s at you like you were sloppy with the birth control, even if you were not. DOUBEL FOOEY on men that impregnate us then walk away also.

       Look at ROSA. She has Ed over a barell b/c he fathered 3 kids liveing in Chapaqua, and he had a women of questioneable repute play with his winkie. If she dump’s him, she get’s the house, the kid’s, the maid, the aupair and alot of spendeing money to maintain her lifestyle, and he get’s the woman who took his winkie w/o her permission. If she were NOT married, she would have nothing. You can be sure that Ed will keep his winkie in his BVD’s goeing forward, and not let questioneable women do things to it again. This may be a tough lesson for you, but if it could happen to Rosa, it could sureley happen to anyone b/c she is so pretty and most women think of her as gorgeus.

       I spoke with dad about your predickament, and he agrees with me for once. YAY!

       1. Ellen is wise beyond her tender years. If he wants to get married, go for it now while you’re at your peak. 10 years from now you’ll regret it if you don’t.

          1. Yeahno. Anyone who calls them “BVDs” is actually a 55 year old man trolling a website for women.

   11. We’re not married. (Kids were never an option for us.) We are each other’s beneficiaries and legal next-of-kin. We don’t present ourselves as married but everyone treats us as if we are, because after 13 years there’s not much difference. Some of the societal benefits of marriage — people taking your relationship more seriously, etc. — probably come from the length of time you are together and, frankly, age.

       1. I think length of time is more important than age. My mother’s boyfriend moved in after three months of dating, and the whole family just rolled their eyes at yet another slacker boyfriend. They got married a little after a year, and both the family dynamic and the dynamic between them changed to a more serious one.

       2. I second the “treating as if you are married”. We’ve been together 7 years, not 13, but after about 4 or so, people routinely started using “husband” and “wife” when talking to one of us about the other one. I think they just assumed that, because we’d been together for that long, we must have gotten married at some point.

       3. Southside- why aren’t you married? Is there a reason you decided not to, or it just didn’t feel necessary?

          1. So, I’m not Southside, and I don’t know her situation, but a lot of people would happily marry their partner if they had a legal right to do so where they live.

             1. Oh, I feel very, very foolish for not having thought of that. I apologize. My question stands, though, assuming she could have married her partner. Otherwise, I’m sorry for being thick.

             2. True, but that’s not our situation. It’s hard to explain, now. Definitely the decision was affected by knowing we would not have kids. It’s not passivity, exactly, but after a certain point it does feel as though the state’s sanction is not necessary. And complications meant that we could not marry in my church, so the social/family aspect of a wedding was moot.

          2. One of my dear friends has been with her partner for 30 years. She’s in her late 60s now. Sometimes she wakes up hoping her ex-husband has died so that she could marry her current man. She’s Catholic, wants no part of a civil marriage, and views herself as having no grounds for an annulment.

             1. See, while I understand where she’s coming from, to me wishing someone was dead seems so much worse in the scale of being a good Catholic than getting a divorce. The Church has drilled some really weird morality into people (saying this as a Catholic)

       4. BF and I have been together so long that random people we meet together, like the insurance agent or the landlord or the random person at the store we go in a lot, just tend to assume we’re married. Or even people who know we’re not occasionally slip up and say husband or wife instead of boyfriend/girlfriend when referencing the other person. So yea, I think after a certain point, society at large just stops differentiating or assumes you’ve been together so long that surely you’ve gotten married at some point, right? Now, our mothers, on the other hand, don’t seem to have reached this point…

          1. I feel like we need a better term for this type of relationship. I feel slightly silly referring to my “boyfriend” being that we are in our 40s and have been together for more than a decade. I also think it doesn’t capture the seriousness of our relationship.

             I don’t like using partner because I have a business partner too, which can get confusing in conversation. Significant Other seems overly clunky.

             Any better ideas?

             1. There was a NY Times lifestyle section article on this a while ago. I can’t find it, but I think the conclusion was no one’s found a good option. Paramour? Guy that’s stuck around? Not-legal-husband? I got nothing.

       5. I definitely agree with the point about age. I don’t feel like my relationship is treated as seriously as a marriage even though we have been together over 8 years. But we’re 25. We’re planning on getting married on our 10th anniversary.

   12. Here’s another related question- we talk about all of the legal and financial binding of two people into one unit in terms of benefits (and there are many). Being bound to someone is also a liability, depending on what happens and who they are. And obviously, no one thinks of it that way when they get married because why would you? I love my SO and I trust him, but my parents had a nasty divorce and my childhood was hell, so it’s hard to just assume that being bound to someone like that is always a benefit and never a vulnerability. It’s sort of the equivalent to one of the comments above that you can’t always assume that everything will go according to plan. did anyone think of this before they got married, and if so, how did you allay that fear? Or in general, what were/are your thoughts about it?

       1. I think you mitigate that risk by being diligent. Don’t let your spouse manage all of the finances and do the tax returns without viewing them too. Read everything you sign. Usually the spouses that get hit the worst are the ones that signed credit applications with no idea what they were, had no idea the spouse (usually the husband) wasn’t paying taxes, didn’t check the bank account so were unaware of the money going to a different account, etc.

       2. I will get a pre-nup if I remarry, and I will never cede all financial planning and management responsibility to my spouse.

          Discovering that my private equity partner ex-husband hadn’t been paying the gas bill – and realizing that he had opposed paying down my student loans or buying a second car for me to use because he had been planning to leave me – was super unpleasant. I had completely ceded authority in those areas to him, and it was a bad, bad decision.

          1. Your ex husband sounds like a real tool. I’m glad you’re divorced.

             1. Thanks. It took a while to be able to say it, but…he was a real tool in many ways.

       3. It’s not just financial malfeasance you have to worry about. If you are the high earner, in the event of a divorce you will be on the hook for spousal support and your earnings throughout the marriage will be split down the middle. I handled all the finances in my marriage but I still took a pretty big bath in the divorce.

          Like cbackson, I would never remarry without a prenup. Although at this point, as I may have mentioned before, my best-case scenario is being part of a committed unmarried couple who lives in two houses and has lots of sleepovers.

          1. RE: “sleepovers.” My old gang used to call these “away games.”

             1. *snort*

                Love it!

          2. @Senior Attorney, you’ve just described my fantasy life. Signed, Unhappily Married

             1. Hugs, So Totally Anon. I have been where you are and it sucks.

   13. This is actually interesting. Maybe try c0nsulting with an attorney that works with gay couples. I know many couples that before marriage was legal in our state signed a series of contracts with their partner to address possible concerns.

       I think the big rub comes when you decide to have children or if one partner leaves the workforce for whatever reason. Also, if you are in a higher earning couple where one partner earns the majority of the income its important to be married so that the lower earning spouse can receive a portion of the higher earning spoouse’s SS, retirement benefits, etc.

       So my answer is basically it may not make sense now but you should keep re-evaluating as you move through life.

       1. I often hear people say being married matters when you have kids. But how exactly? I mean, if you are both on the birth certificate arent you both legally parents? Even if not married?

          1. Depending on the state/laws, married fathers often have more rights than unmarried fathers if the relationship ends. At the very least, the unmarried father will usually have to establish legal paternity, which is more than just biological paternity.

          2. Oh gosh it’s SO MUCH MORE COMPLICATED than that.

          3. Apart from the rights thing, parents who don’t have the same surname as their kids can face a whole lot of issues when going in and out of countries (due to the possibility of child trafficking)

          4. Wildkitten is right – this is not even remotely close to reality. This may be why its better to do research rather than just relying on how things seem like they should work when making big decisions? (Caveat: research for anyone thinking seriously about this =/= reading shopping blog comments but paying an expert).

   14. We went through the same thing three years ago…we jumped tax brackets and my student loan payments went up substantially since now they were looking at two incomes instead of one and my husband was outearning me by 20k at the time. Now I outearn him by 30k. We got married anyway, even with the financial hit, for a few reasons:

       1) We’d been cohabitating for years and his religious (clergy!) family was not happy about that.
       2) We wanted children and wanted the ease of having married parents for that (no kids yet).
       3) He’d been paying an insane amount of money for health insurance, and could now go on my decent government insurance.

       So yes, getting married cost us money at the time, but I’m still glad we did it. That being said, I’d understand why people wouldn’t too – it’s a personal choice.

       1. About your student loans- presumably that only happens if you have income based repayment, right?

          1. Correct. I went from paying $300/month to $750/month under IBR when we got married, which was a big adjustment. I’ve since been promoted and am now paying $800/month under ICR.

             1. You can do married-filing-separately but that’s another can of worms and a personal cost/benefit analysis. You lose student loan interest deduction if you MFS but also if you make $75k. So that’s another thing. Once I make enough money to lose the interest deduction, that won’t be something I’d lose by getting married (since it’d already be gone.)

   15. I’m just going to be a counterpoint here. I am now married. To me there is no difference emotionally, though I recognize this may be different for other people. Our day to day lives have not changed, our feelings for one another have not changed, basically the only thing that has changed is our tax status and I have a big fluffy white dress in a closet. The for financial reasons benefited us to make it legal, though we already had legal arrangements in place for medical, property, etc. To us, the important part was a commitment to one another, the rest was just gravy.

       1. would you get married again?

          1. Legally? I don’t know, it would depend on if the circumstances were different.

             I’ve always drawn a distinction between “legal” marriage and choosing to spend your life with someone. I’ll add that I am not really religious, so that aspect of it doesn’t factor in for me, though I’d also say there is a difference between choosing a religious commitment and what the government defines as marriage.

   16. So I was a bit like OP and I didn’t really feel the need to get married and then we got married in a small ceremony, so thought I’d post my observations in the years since.
       1. Yes, tax consequences. I thought I was prepared but even I was surprised by what a hit we took. It was especially unexpected because that first year I had substantial medical expenses that I could have written off, but filing jointly my expenses weren’t enough for the write-off. My advice is you play around with your taxes for this 2014 to see how much it would be if you were to file married filing sep. and married filing jointly, or ask your accountant to do the math.
       2. Look into your medical benefits if you’re planning to switch to one insurance. What we discovered is that a) where we live we could have done that anyway by just registering for a domestic partnership so marriage was unnecessary for that purpose and b) having individual employer plans was cheaper because our respective family plans didn’t take into account if it was just the two of us, or two of us plus 3 kids. But of course with a kid it is easier because one of us would have needed a family plan anyway.
       3. There are other benefits that we lost out on by getting married. For instance, there was a middle income housing program in our city where we could have bought property at a substantially discounted price but by getting married our joint income placed us over the income cap to qualify for the program. This is the biggest regret I have about getting married, at least when we did it because we could have done it after buying a place. The housing market where we live is insane and this would have been a good way for us to buy property; without it, the amount of real estate we can afford at market rates is substantially smaller and we basically can’t buy anything big enough for a family now. This doesn’t sound like it applies to OP but I sure wish someone had told me about it!
       4. People do treat you differently. I was so surprised by that, but it’s true, even if you’ve been together for years. I didn’t feel differently at all and neither did my spouse but so many acted differently about us. I understood it from older relatives who were just so happy to finally have it be “official” but I kind of resent it from friends. You may feel differently.
       5. A silly reason to get hitched, but one of the reasons we did decide to go for it is that there is no good word for life partner. LP sounds so dramatic. Partner is ambiguous. BF sounds juvenile after a while, especially at a certain age. SO is too formal. In retrospect, this was a silly reason. I feel just as weird saying “my husband” as I did say “my boyfriend.” I think the whole thing is just loaded for some reason.
       6. Legal rights – this is where you should just figure out if a) you’re the type of people to prepare for life’s contingencies or you just want to have the default rules supplied by marriage apply, and b) what the laws are in your state for all this stuff. We were pretty prepared all around so we had wills, POA, medical proxies, etc. in place before we got married. But our state also makes it easy to contract all those rights and responsibilities, not all states do.
       7. Children – perhaps the most logical reason to do it. Basically, we decided we just didn’t want to have our child feel weird about our relationship and we knew we wanted a kid.
       8. All in all, we don’t regret it but I don’t know that I would have done it if I was doing it again. I get what people say about not knowing what will happen down the line, but I think that cuts both ways. Marriage doesn’t protect you from the other person leaving. Equitable distribution doesn’t always equal financial protection. I’ve seen friends go through divorces and end up with nothing because their spouse hid money, dissipated assets, ruined their credit, etc. The bottom line is you have to know who you are marrying OR who you are spending your life with – marriage is not going to make a bad partner into a good one. Also, it is on you to always protect yourself in that situation, not expect the state to do it for you.

   17. My husband and I are similar: high earners, don’t want kids, neither of us are particularly romantic. We got married a year ago after having been together almost 10 years, and I’ll admit that, before we did, a big part of me thought it was sort of silly since we were basically already married/nothing would change. But I did want to marry him, for whatever inexplicable, illogical reason. And it really truly feels different. It really does feel like we’re more committed to each other and it feels more secure. Not that I felt uncommitted or insecure before–marriage just made it different. And better.

       Financially, we are taxed less in our state, but it’s not such a difference that it factored into our decision in any way. I came into the marriage with more money and less debt (e.g., he has student loans, I don’t), but my assets are structured in a way that they are still separate–that was important to me from a financial security standpoint.

       That said, I firmly believe that you shouldn’t get married unless you actually want to, and there’s nothing wrong with never getting married.

   18. I am late to the game, but I’ll play. I’m married, and have been for more than ten years. I was married relatively young (24) and this question caused me to look back on my reasons and contemplate whether I would do it again. The answer: a resounding yes. We have taken a financial hit being married; I also frequently joke that we should divorce and cohabitate solely for tax reasons. And when I married, I don’t think I really considered my “reasons” because it’s just what you did when you met the person with whom you wanted to share your life. But I wouldn’t change my end result.

       Looking back, I would do it again in a heartbeat. But not for tangible reasons. For me, it’s a type of “ownership.” That man stood there and pledged his life to me. We spoke vows. We gave ourselves to each other openly and bound ourselves to each other. We share a name (I know a hot topic on this site) and belong to each other. We didn’t do it for legal reasons or because we were going to have children (we weren’t going to have any). And I didn’t do it because I was “against” cohabitation. For me, it boiled down to wanting this amazing man to legally be MY family.

       Weird, I know.

       1. This.

   19. Very late to the discussion, and many people above have made thoughtful posts about various factors. I’m adding this as a tax/estate planning person b/c no one mentioned two of the most significant *financial* benefits of marriage for someone in the OP’s position (both partners = high earners and they don’t plan to have kids).
       1. If you live in a community property state, you can take advantage of the double step-up in basis of property when the first spouse dies. (All inherited property gets a step-up to date of death fair market value, but if you own property jointly and you’re the surviving spouse you would not receive a step-up in the basis in your own half-interest b/c you didn’t inherit it — unless you live in a CP state and hold that asset as CP. Of course, the flip side is that choosing to hold assets as CP has a very different outcome upon divorce.)
       2. You can pass an unlimited amount of money/assets to a surviving spouse without paying any estate tax (so long as the surviving spouse is a US citizen). This is known as the “unlimited marital deduction.” Now that the per-person estate and gift tax exemption amount is over $5M, this is not an issue for very many individuals/couples. But it’s an enormous benefit for those who have $5M per. (You can also gift an unlimited amount to a US citizen spouse during your lifetimes. In making gifts to anyone else you are limited to the $14K per recipient per year annual gift tax exclusion — otherwise you start using up that lifetime exemption amount.)
       The third very significant financial benefit is the availability of health insurance — being able to add on to a spouse’s plan. But others have mentioned that above. Also, some company/gov’t pension plans restrict pay-on-death beneficiaries to legally married spouses — but these are becoming fewer and fewer. Social Security spousal benefits are not likely to be in any way significant if each partner has her/his own earnings record and they are similar.

       1. Also, separate note on asking an accountant to run the numbers — this is a good idea, but be aware that the marriage penalty applies whether you are filing married filing separately or married filing jointly. The brackets are the same. (The difference is that you might meet certain floors for deductions filing separately.) The only way to avoid the marriage penalty is to file two single-personal returns — i.e. not be legally married.

2. Posted this on the moms’ page last week, but looking for a few more responses….

   I’m looking for some cute and stylish nursing tops.

   My son is three weeks old and I’m already getting reallllly tired of wearing the same 4 tops over and over again. I’m specifically looking for nursing tops (not just regular tops that can be nursing friendly, because I find those tops are often way too low cut). Specifically, I’m looking for nursing tops that have that discreet flap that pulls up, so that you’re showing as little skin as possible. I’m not interested in nursing tanks, I tried them with my first child and I don’t like them on me.

   Here’s an example. I love this top, in case others are looking for cute nursing tops as well:

   http://www.milknursingwear.com/store/pc/Empire-scoop-neck-nursing-top-2p3373.htm

   Thanks!

   1. this kind?

      http://www.gap.com/browse/product.do?cid=15098&vid=1&pid=189899032

      I would probably buy multiples of the ones you like. I liked the v neck ones where you pull them down, so had like 10 of those.

      1. Yep. These.

   2. I’m not much help for links, though the gorgeous wrap Kat posted on the Mom’s site today is great. I never bought nursing tops, but I wear camis under almost everything. When nursing, I would pull my top up and my cami down, or my top down or cami up, depending on what I would wear, and it showed little to almost no skin.

   3. Not an answer to your actual question, but when I was nursing, I got a bunch of stretchy tank tops, and just wore them under my regular tops (the ones that still fit anyway) – pull the regular top up, pull the tank top underneath down, you have the same coverage as a nursing top. I was able to wear a large portion of my pre-pregnancy wardrobe that way (although not at three weeks post-partum…I think I was just lounging around in a muumuu at that point).

      1. I did this: I doubled up with a nursing br@ & a nursing tank. I wore the tank under everything, and just pulled up or unbuttoned my top shirt, and flapped my nursing tank & br@ down. It was unwieldy (now you can get a tank that has a loop to slip over the clasp of your nursing bra that just flaps down when you un-clip your br@) but it worked great for keeping everything covered–AND warm when my office was cold.

   4. You can be an anecdote for someone I know seeking modest nursing tops. All her mom friends say “save your money. After a few weeks you won’t be modest at all! I swear!” She thinks she still will be. You say this is your second so you maintained your desire for modesty despite breast feeding one already.

      I think part of the reason we don’t see modest tops advertised more is they are bombarded with flak about “breast feeding is natural, nothing to be “ashamed” of, you don’t need to hide . . . ” blah blah blah. Just because someone prefers to be more covered up doesn’t mean she is looking down on all those that don’t.

      *steps off soap box*

      I don’t even have kids and I’m annoyed for my friend.

      1. I think its more that its very difficult to stay covered up as the kid gets older (even 3-4 months). They are in motion, they hate having fabric around their head, they are pulling at things, etc. So, even the modest tops don’t stay modest. Its difficult to nurse and stay covered up, even if you want to. Maybe women don’t want to spend money on something that is essentially a losing game.

         1. PS: I have no problem at all with the women that don’t want to cover up. I just hate that my friend is getting so much hate because she does want to cover up.

            1. Long, loose t-shirts are her friend. I found that whatever the top didn’t cover, the baby itself did.

         2. +1, this is why I liked the ones you just pull down. Anything else was just too much fuss with my squirmy babies!!

      2. I thought it was more bc it’s winter and she’s cold, not so much that she’s modest?

   5. I liked Milk as well. There is another company called Boob that I loved. My youngest is 5 so I don’t have any current links…..

      1. I’m not in the market for nursing tops but I’d be careful with the search query for the company SuziStockbroker suggests . . .

         1. Ha ha, I never thought of that.

            I would do that search at home.

   6. I really wanted actual nursing tops when I was nursing. But my 30G cups did not fit into the tops. I was totally bummed going into a nursing store and finding nothing besides a cami actually fitting me.

      1. I just wish I had been educated enough about sizing to know that I would have benefited from a 30G rather than trying to make do with 36D/DD. You know, 50 pounds of meat in a 5 pound sack. Doesn’t work well, and isn’t flattering either.

         If I had no other advice to give to nursing women (or really, to women everywhere), it is that the right br@ size is a necessity, and we should remove the stigma from cup sizes. A D isn’t a big cup necessarily. Get over it, everyone, and buy the F. Or the G.

         1. Yeah, I had to buy a 32F right after my 3rd was born.

            My husband called them “Cartoon Boobs”.

   7. H&M usually has some cute ones.

      http://www.hm.com/us/product/52036?article=52036-A

      1. http://www.hm.com/us/product/62979?article=62979-C&cm_vc=PRA1#

   8. Thanks ladies. As mentioned, I don’t like the nursing tank/wear shirt over combo for me. I find it too fussy so I’m just looking to wear one top. I will check out H&M and the other online source mentioned. If others have recs please do share. Thanks so much.

      1. Last I checked, Mom’s the Word had a few options like this.

      2. I’m assuming you’re in the US, but just in case milkface.ca and evy mama.ca are good canadian courses for nursing-wear. Also, a company called Momzelle (not sure if it’s .ca or .com) but the tunics are particularly great.

   9. I had a variation of these tops from Motherhood Maternity and wore the heck out of them: http://www.motherhood.com/Product.asp?Product_Id=959840362&MasterCategory_Id=MC29

      http://www.motherhood.com/Product.asp?Product_Id=985920362&MasterCategory_Id=MC29

   10. My previous message got swallowed, but short version: Motherhood Maternity has “mock layer” nursing tops that were more discreet and comfortable for me.

3. I will be attending a conference in San Francisco in March. The conference runs Thursday and half a day on Friday, and hubs and I were planning on staying the weekend to sneak in a couple of days of adult time, leaving on Sunday afternoon. We have been to SF several times, and have been to Sonoma once.

   We are trying to decide whether to go to Sonoma/Napa or just stay in the city. We will really only have 1.5 days to ourselves, so I think staying in the city might be nice. If we decide to do that, can anyone suggest a few “off the beaten path” things to do ? Since we have been there a few times, we have already done all of the touristy things like Alcatraz, Fisherman’s Wharf, etc.

   1. The trek out to wine country is a bit time prohibitive to me considering you don’t have a lot of time to yourself. I really liked a architectural tour of China Town when my husband and I visited there for our honeymoon in 2011. I also loved eating – a lot. Some of my favorites were Zazies (for brunch) and Bi-Rite Creamery (for ice cream!).

   2. Enjoy the gorgeous scenery (and GG Bridge Views) afforded by a leisurely walk (or jog) at Chrissy Fields. This is near the Marina District, so you then walk up to Chestnut Street and have a delicious meal at De La Rosa (or any of several delightful establishments).

   3. Stay in SF and go out to the different neighborhoods and walk around. Hayes Valley, Outer Sunset, Noe Valley, Cow Hollow/Russian Hill/Marina are all fun days.

      1. +1 to outer sunset, the beach, the Sutro ruins if you haven’t done that before. Totally different side to SF than the touristy parts.

   4. The botanical gardens and the zoo can be fun too! The Disney Family Museum is also located in the Presidio, and that is always a fun visit. Really interesting displays on the beginnings of the company, and Disneyland. Also hit the Embarcadero for really good bread, produce, chocolate, and other fun things! The Slanted Door is a great place for dinner, too….

      1. +1000 on the Slanted Door. Best meal I had last year!

   5. Depending on what weekend you are in SF, you might want to go up to the Sonoma Wine Road Barrel Tasting. You can go to tons of wineries for very cheap (one ticket gets you access to many wineries). My friends and I go every year and it’s awesome (but crowded).

      (You can find out more if you google Sonoma Wine Road Barrel Tasting 2015). Happy to post specific winery recs if you decide to go this route. Know that Sonoma is mostly reds, so if you like whites, maybe not worth it.

      1. Thanks! We will be there march 11-15. I will check this out.

   6. Our friends took us to Burma Superstar while in SF and it was delicious. I highly recommend the tea leaf salad and the seasame beef.

   7. check this out: http://www.7×7.com/arts-culture/100-things-do-you-die

4. Is there something special I am supposed to do with my W4 withholding above a certain salary amount? Like, am I supposed to start calculating my estimated tax and putting a # into that “additional amount you want withheld” line?

   I ask because my whole life, I have always gotten a tax refund – sometimes it’s only a hundred bucks, but I’ve never underpaid taxes. Last year was the first year I made over $150K…just did a preliminary version of my taxes on Turbotax and I owe over $7000!! I only put down one allowance on my W4 (for myself). Obviously, I can change that to 0, but is that enough?

   1. You probably want to figure out the amount you expect to be underwithheld by, divide by pay periods and add that as additional withholding. I know the idea is not to overwithhold because “you’re giving the government an interest free loan!” – but with interest rates being what they are, I’d rather risk being overwithheld than being underwithheld, having a big tax bill due all at once, and risking penalties for being underwithheld. (I’m not sure how the penalties work but I don’t think they kick in until the second instance of severe underwithholding).

      1. Okay, this is what I suspected. It’s just frustrating that I have to do this myself…like why is the withholding calculation system suddenly “broken” for me? :( I’m totally with you on the “I’d rather overpay than underpay.” I’m totally happy to give the government a couple of thousand dollar loan every year if I just don’t have to deal with this hassle!

         1. For us it’s broken because we’re subject to the AMT. I don’t know why it’s happening for you.

         2. It’s because the IRS assumes a high income household also has a lot of write-offs (usually a big mortgage interest) rather than a standard deduction.

            1. Agreed. Although, even before I bought a home, I got money back because my state income tax pauments were so high. I’m wondering if the OP is in a state without income taxes

            2. Haha, definitely have state income tax. They don’t call us Tax-achusetts for nothing :)

   2. Welcome to taxes. I’ve fiddled around with our withholdings each year and have yet to find a way that my husband and I don’t owe five figures every April. Instead of withholding it, just earmark that money for taxes each year. That way you’re not giving the government free money.

      1. It really is nice to hear that it isn’t just me! :) I will definitely have to start earmarking the money every year now. It was just a super rude shock this year.

         1. The IRS has a worksheet that will be easy to fill in if you already have all the paperwork for the 2014 taxes on hand. It will tell you how much extra to withhold. You can either have it withheld or just put it aside for the eventual bill.

         2. It was a horrible shock for us the first year. Especially because we did taxes early, right after our property tax bill was due. No one ever tells you that it’s going to happen, I feel like that shock is some horrible right of passage.

   3. When this started for me, I went to zero allowances & divided the check I had to write by the number of pay periods, and added that as additional withholding. It’s pretty close now; I still owe every year, and continue adjusting the additional withholding to try to get close.

5. This makes me furious. Like boiling blind rage.

   dub dub dub DOT rawstory DOT com/rs/2015/02/supreme-court-lets-stand-ruling-that-firing-woman-for-breastfeeding-not-sexist-because-men-can-lactate/

   1. I have nipples, Greg. Could you milk me?

      1. lol :)

   2. That’s actually not what the opinion states. Here is the full opinion: http://sblog.s3.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/14-355-opbelow.pdf

      1. Wow. The article was not even close. OP- save your boiling rage for awful summaries of court cases that completely misrepresent the legal system. (Certainly not your fault, it’s just depressing that these people call themselves journalists)

         1. +1 – legal (and science, too) reporting by the lay public is…awful

      2. Its always shocking to me that people don’t go to the source document. I see it on facebook all the time. My first instinct is always to investigate further. So many people just skip right to outrage.

      3. THANK YOU! I keep seeing that article reposted on Facebook and hadn’t yet confirmed that it was wrong (but was pretty sure based on a quick review of the article)

      4. there’s a correction posted now on rawstory saying that the “men can lactate” language was in the original district court decision not the 8th circuit.

         1. so some of the blog/news reports are misleading bc really the 8th circuit descision was about “whether employees have to complain internally before resigning in order to argue that they were constructively discharged”

            but the district court decision DID go backwards on whether discriminating against pregnant women counts as sex discrimination. but i wish the articles would explain that correctly instead of trying to be sensational by leading with the ‘men can lactate’ comment.

            1. That’s not correct either. The 8th Circuit held that pregnancy discrimination does fall under Title VII but Ames had not shown that she was constructively discharged. Here is the link to that opinion: http://cases.justia.com/federal/appellate-courts/ca8/12-3780/12-3780-2014-03-13.pdf?ts=1411170699

   3. I’m not a lawyer, but I read the summary that you all provided. I can certainly see that there are some (many) issues at play here, but it just doesn’t feel right.
      I still think Nationwide effed up. Accurate reporting/portrayal aside, it just astounds me that there are such hurdles still. Today, in 2015.
      Saying that Ames didn’t give nationwide a chance to resolve the issue when she is being dictated as to what to write producing what is in essence a resignation letter? On her first day back to work, in significant pain (if you haven’t experienced it, I don’t recommend it), after receiving a pretty disheartening and patronizing comment about going back home where she belonged? What was she going to do–say, “hold the phone. I’m not writing this.”

6. Hey guys- Ladypockets (excellent mock fashion blog) has new content- Amal Clooney – check it out ! I love that site.

   1. thanks, person who is not ladypockets.

   2. Me too – I kind of wish it weren’t satire, because I’d love to know where the women featured actually shop.

      1. This blog sources Amal’s outfits: amalalamuddinstyle.wordpress.com

         1. Oh my gosh, thanks for the link! Added to my BlogLovin feed :)

   3. The woman who writes Ladypockets has another blog called “I am begging my mother not read this” and its awesome. She has some wonderful posts.

      http://iambeggingmymothernottoreadthisblog.com/

      1. These are both great, in very different ways — thanks for sharing, both of you.

7. Just wanted to say thanks to everyone who chimed in yesterday on my post about getting my office back post mat leave. Here’s the anticlimactic (good) update — requested a meeting with the person in charge, was immediately told I would be getting my office back next week, before I was able to go through my carefully prepared arguments. Yay!

   1. I agree, this is a yay!

   2. Sounds like it was more of an oversight than a purposeful snub. Thank goodness! Congrats on having the nerve to get ready to argue it!

   3. Awesome, great resolution! And hey, maybe the fact that you scheduled a meeting was what caused them to fix the issue, so it was worth it to pursue it.

      1. I agree with this. But where will the contract lawyer put her diplomas? /joke
         You did the right thing!

   4. Great!

8. Toffee – I read your post the other day and it made me sad. I’m wondering whether you can try another practice area and see if it works for you. I had to try 3 different practice area. (At 3 different firms) to finally figured out what I enjoyed and where I excelled. I also think patent prosecution is a unique area that attracts certain people who may have terrible social skills like your bosses. So, why not try corporate work, or investment management, or products liability or something really different from patent work but still in law?

9. Any lawyers out there who practice in an area that requires them to do a lot of collections work (including foreclosures)? I’m not the world’s most sensitive soul but it is starting to wear on me after a few years. It’s not that I necessarily feel bad for the people or their specific stories (although I do in some cases), but I think it just generally puts me in a negative headspace dealing with such unpleasantness every day. If the person has a legitimate sad story, that sucks, and if they are just careless , well that sucks, or maybe the bank should have never loaned to that person because they were such high risk, that is frustrating too. Any tips from someone in the practice area (or another “negative” practice area) on having it not wear you down?

   1. My husband did. He went to therapy for a bit to get more coping skills. He put a post it on his desk that said “this is just a job.” It was to remind him it wasn’t who he actually was. He dealt with a lot of people yelling and swearing at him and saying really hurtful things. He also had the option of using an alias. He never did it but some people found it helpful to have two “personalities.” The alias program was for their personal safety but it had the added benefit that people weren’t using your real name when yelling at you. It was easier to leave the work you at the office. It also helped him to think of the benefits he was providing. If everyone was allowed to walk from their financial obligations our society would collapse. There are some people that game the system and deserve what they get. In the true sad story case, he had some flexibility to work with them and in rare cases forgive their debt. That made his job worthwhile to help those that really needed it. He also was able to help people with no financial knowledge figure out a payment plan that kept them out of much bigger trouble. He would go over their assets and liabilities with them and defer further proceedings if they stayed on the agreed to plan. The job also gave him experience that led to a really awesome new job that he would have never qualified for without first working the trenches.

      (My husband was not a lawyer though.)

   2. A coworker used to work as a manager for a domestic violence public interest organization. She said that she used to practice yoga daily as a coping mechanism.

   3. I’m assigned to our child sexual abuse unit, so I spend my days reading about, thinking about, and talking to sexually abused children about their abuse. The way I stay sane is that I never take work home with me (even if that means staying really late, or coming in early, or on a Sunday afternoon), and I try to minimize even thinking about work outside of the office. I vent to my work friends about the cases, but I never talk to my civilian friends or family about my cases, and I only allow myself to think about work either at work or during my morning run. It starts to become a habit, and kind of compartmentalizes it, so that you can get out of that negative headspace.

   4. In finance and have been supervising people who foreclose as well as doing a few cases of my own (both personal residences and commercial properties) since 2008. I keep a good headspace by volunteering (thus sending out good karma to replace the bad) and by teaching (university classes part-time) and mentoring young professionals.

10. Really like this shirt but missed it – it’s already sold out!

    1. I agree – great style choice Kat!

11. I’m in a bind. My boyfriend is a doctor and will be moving for a year-long fellowship starting in 2016. There is definite start and end date, and we’ve decided that I’ll also move with him. I’m a lawyer doing corporate work now, and ideally, I’d like to continue to do so once we move. The fellowship will be in a large market in a large city. Does anyone have any advice/ideas on ways to continue to do legal work while I’m there? The things I’ve considered: asking my current firm to allow me to work remotely for the year (ideal), looking for temp/contract gigs (less than ideal), or looking for an in house position that is a year-long or temp sort of deal (I don’t even know if these exist). My issue really is that we don’t know where he’ll end up after fellowship, so it’s truly just a one year stint somewhere. I would appreciate ideas on types of jobs I should consider and/or how to find them. I was thinking that once I get 6 months or so out from moving, I can contact a recruiter and/or start the working remotely discussion with my boss.

    1. Should also add that my long term goal is to go in house after his fellowship once we settle in a permanent city

    2. Talk to your firm about letting you work remotely. Ymmv, but I’ve recently met a fair number of attorneys who are working remotely while their SO relocates for work for a year or two.

       1. *Raises hand*

          My fiancé will be starting a 1 year position in June in a different city (3 hour flight from where we currently live together). I’m an attorney, in-house. We’ll spend that year apart (and if his position ends up extended for a second year, then either he won’t take the 2nd year or we’ll spend the 2nd year apart, too). We both agree that for me to give up a very good position that I enjoy and worked hard to get to would be an extremely foolish career move.

          But this is something that every couple has to make their own decision about. Just throwing in what we did as a counterpoint to the move-with-him option.

          1. Just realized that I read Lavinia’s comment incorrectly. I’m not working remotely for that year – I’m staying in our home city.

    3. My firm is not very work-from-home-friendly, but I know at least three or four people who have negotiated a one-year work-remotely deal to accommodate a spouse or partner’s work commitment.

       1. Did those people end up back at the original place of business/office after the 1 year deal ended? Because it sounds like the OP is fairly sure that they’ll end up in a different (3rd) city.

          1. One came back, two worked remotely for a year or so before leaving the firm entirely.

    4. I’d really caution against viewing “move with him” as a given under these circumstances. The goal here is for you to find a great, long-term position in whatever city he ends up in AFTER his fellowship. Don’t do something now, like take a contract or temp position, that might hurt your chances. Talk to your firm about working remotely. Look into short-term positions in his city that might be a career builder – there are a number of fellowships etc. for litigators but I’m not sure about transactional. But if none of that pans out, it might be better for your long-term goals to stay where you are for this year.

       1. I’m the 12:01pm anon, and I completely agree. The goal here is to have 2 fantastic jobs in the same city in 2017 – if you take a sub-par temporary position in 2016 in fellowship city, it could negatively impact that plan.

       2. +1. My husband is a resident with 3 more years to go before fellowship (don’t you just love surgery?). We moved to a new city/state for his residency 3 years ago, but only after we became engaged. My big law firm was not especially supportive of my move to the new city, so I found a new firm that has been great (I think being able to tell them I was engaged to this guy who was committed to this city for a certain number of years gave them confidence I wasn’t going to get homesick and decide the tough relationship with a resident wasn’t worth it).

          When my husband applies for fellowship, we will preference our current city so I can keep my job. However, if we don’t have kids yet and he is matched somewhere else, I will not be going with him. We don’t know where we will end up post-fellowship. Maybe in our old city, maybe in our current city, maybe somewhere else altogether. It is most important to us that I have a good job in the final city we end up in, and if we have to do a year of long-distance during fellowship to ensure that my resume doesn’t take a big hit, then so be it. I might ask my firm if they would let me work remotely, but I’m not sure they’d be into the idea. If we have kids by then, my answer would probably change, but otherwise I just can’t see how it makes sense to quit your good job for a 1-year gig.

12. For those who have gone off the pill……I went off the pill in November after 10 years of usage. It took me about 40 days to get a period, and now I’m waiting for another one. How long did it take you for normal periods to resume? We will be TTC in about a year and a half, so I have enough time for cycles to sort themselves out. I think I’m thrown myself into an anxiety-bubble about possible problems.

    1. The way to treat anxiety is rarely gather even more information about the thing that really really isn’t an issue. Ask you gyn at your next appointment and do some yoga. Spending the next several years stressing about this is really a poor choice.

    2. Everyone has her own “normal”. Off the pill, I’m a 40+ days type. And I got pregnant (intentionally) that way. If your cycles stay on the long side, when you’re about ready to TTC, I suggest Taking Charge of Your Fertility. The typical charts to pinpoint ovulation days don’t apply to long cycles like that, but the book helped me figure out what was going on with me.

    3. I used to go onto the pill just in the summer holidays and it would take a good three months for things to get back to normal.

    4. agree that every person and every pill is different, even if you’ve already taken one particular pill in a previous “chapter” of your life. Case in point: I started on the pill in 2001, and after I stopped nursing my second child in the summer of 2011, I went through the rest of 2011, and most of 2012 getting periods almost every 2-3 weeks, but with some stretching to 4-6 weeks (though that was more rare). I tried 3-4 different pills in that year, and none of them worked to get me regular. About the same time that I tried yet another pill, and went on meds for hypothyroid, I started to get sorted out by late 2012 early 2013. Now I have mirena and haven’t looked back.

    5. Totally depends. When I went off the pill I didn’t get a period for 1.5 years, so we had to have help IMMEDIATELY when TTC (before that it was just ‘managed’ with provera every 3 months). I have had friends with similar stories (v irregular after pill).

       FWIW, though, I am quite regular after having had kids (every 36 days or so).

    6. I don’t think I’m normal. I went off my pills (Seasonale) and started having an exactly 28 day long cycle. Very weird.

       1. you ovarian weirdo ;o)

    7. Most recently when I went off the pill (when I was 35) I got a cycle of about 29-36 days. I know because we were TTC and I was using an app to track my bleeding and other symptoms. SO MANY SYMPTOMS that an app will track for you!

       Previously when I was younger about age 29 and TTC my cycles were shorter and MUCH more regular, say 28-30 days.

       So many variables. Some you can control and some you can’t. Track and you’ll know when to worry.

       1. Yup I’m using an app, so I’ll feel better if my cycles are at least regular, even if they are 40 days. I think I’m just being silly…

          1. Yep, not trying to minimize anyone’s struggles TTC, but people got pregnant before apps were invented.

    8. I had a similar experience both times – I would have one (long) cycle and then nothing for months. It’s just weird. The first time, the doc put me on a progesterone supplement to jump start it, then followed up with Clomid to start ovulation (which I actually never took – just the progesterone apparently worked and I got pg right away without ever having a period). The second time, I think that things were about to work out, after around 3-4 months off, I had one fairly normal looking cycle, but then, got pregnant again pretty quickly (apparently, my body’s pretty good at that part, even if it’s terrible with the cycles). I would recommend that you monitor your temperatures and CM, just to get a good idea of what is going on (if you know that you ovulate, you know that you should have a period shortly after), and just make an appointment with your gyn if it continues and you want to hurry along the process. You’ve got time, so it’s good. As an aside, though, don’t rely on the lack of periods as birth control if you are certain that you want to wait – I had assumed with the first that we couldn’t (and the nurse backed this up) because of that, and thought we would wait until after a big vacation to worry about it, but, hey, surprise!

    9. I’ve gone off the Pill two separate times in my life. The first time it took nearly six months to get my period back. This time, I didn’t even miss a single cycle (ugh). Both times I was assured by my doctor that my situation was normal. Bodies are weird.

13. If my summer goal is lose enough weight before a friend’s wedding that I’m thinner than her, does that make me a bad person or a clever motivator?

    1. You should lose weight for yourself, not because of someone else.

    2. Bad person.

    3. Kinda makes ya a frenemy.

       1. This. You should be my friend. You’re probably already skinnier than I am.
          But I’m smarter, nicer and way funnier. And might have more genuine friends, who knows.

          1. How do you know that she is not also smarter, nicer and way funnier than you (on top of being skinnier)?

             1. Because she’s planning on competing with her friend about weight at her friend’s own wedding?

             2. Fat people are definitely funnier. I learned it on TV: http://www.npr.org/2011/08/08/138958386/big-fat-stereotypes-play-out-on-the-small-screen

    4. Clever motivator? Who decided your friend needs to lose weight?

       1. Self motivator! I need to lose weight not anyone else.

    5. Um. I’ll stop short of calling you a bad person, but why are you specifically tying your weight loss goals to being thinner than your friend? That seems ungenerous.

    6. Bad person. Kind of evil honestly. There is two compotents- 1) you want to compete with someone who is your “friend” in a competition that she never agreed to and 2) the idea that you want to show her up at her wedding. What if she doesn’t even care if she is bigger than you? What if she is perfectly happy with her size and comfortable with herself? You are going to sit there at her wedding while she is glowing thinking “haha I won!”

       Newsflash- you lost. You lost when you had this thought.

       1. I kind of agree with this. And I’d be willing to bet OP is single (unmarried). And definitely jealous of her “friend.”

       2. Agree with this. Honestly the last thing I thought at my wedding was “wow, marcy looks way thinner than me!”. I don’t think anyone else focused on my weight at my wedding either (or I hope they didn’t). This idea is really narcissistic assuming that people will be focusing on the way you look rather than the happy couple at a wedding.

       3. So, she def wouldn’t care at all about being bigger than me. Cause she’s a good person. Frankly, I doubt she’d even notice. And yeah I am 100% single, jealous, and bitter.

          1. Maybe think about how you will feel when you’re thinner yet still single, jealous, and bitter. Your weight probably isn’t what’s holding you back.

          2. Maybe the negative emotions are something to work on. Not sure of your role at the wedding, but it’s a time of heightened emotions and it’s not a good idea to be radiating negative vibes. How about focusing on dating or at least socializing with new people?

          3. I would work on being a good person then instead of working on losing weight. Losing weight is easier than a personality change. (And your personality, not your weight, is why you are single)

          4. Honey, competing with your friend on her wedding day ain’t gonna make you any less jealous or bitter… you’ll just be hungry, too.

    7. I disagree. Whatever motivates you is fine, as long as it’s not reflective of some underlying issue between you and your friend. I’m extremely competitive but loving toward my friends. I use said sense of competition to motivate me to do all kinds of things. Keep it healthy and you’re fine.

       1. Let me put it this way; if I were your friend and you told me this, I’d wish you luck, assuming our friendship was genuine, which I think is not necessarily at odds with such a sentiment of competition. Could be, though, and only you would know.

    8. I don’t know about bad person, but it makes you sound like you have some issues and could benefit from therapy.

       1. I second this. I have a close relative who has similar weight loss goals (“I just want to always be skinnier than relative X” completely unbeknownst to relative X), and her issues about comparing herself to others and competitiveness go much, much deeper than body image. It sounds like you’re admitting some negative thoughts and genuinely wanting to redirect your energy in a more positive way. I hope you succeed!

    9. Bad person: so that you look better than her or cause her jealousy or some sort of pain.

       Clever: if you’re using her appearance as a target for yourself. Although, frankly, I think this is still just weird. I’d feel uncomfortable knowing I had a friend who was using my weight as a target and specifically tying the goal to a day where I should be supported by people who care for me. And, presumably, photographed with this friend.

    10. Ok thanks all. I really knew this was bad from the beginning just needed some extra back up. I’m just starting to really hate wedding season, but will look for a different, positive way to get through it.

        1. Aim it at the bridesmaids :)

        2. I think it’s fair to want to lose weight so you’ll look good in your dress or in the photos or something. It’s losing weight so you’ll be thinner than the bride that seems weird.

    11. Wanting to lose weight? Totally fine.

        Wanting to lose weight before a friend’s wedding so you’ll look good at the event? Also totally fine.

        Wanting to lose weight before a friend’s wedding specifically so you’ll be thinner than the bride on a day meant to honor her and her relationship? Mean-spirited, jealous, and self-centered. If there is one day on the planet that is not about you and your waistline, it is the day that is someone else’s wedding day.

        Which is not to say that no one’s allowed to be thinner than the bride, or to lose weight prior to the wedding and happen to end up thinner than the bride, but to have your weight loss goal be specifically tied to showing up the bride? Gross. (And as someone on the receiving end of these shenanigans at my own wedding – FROM MY FREAKIN’ MOTHER – let me tell you, it was pretty stomach-turning and it could’ve been really distracting if I hadn’t kept my distance from her throughout the reception. Luckily she was so obsessed with showing herself off that she didn’t notice I was doing my best not to come within 100 feet of her the whole day.)

        ETA: Sorry for the appearance of piling on! – I started the comment before OP had responded with the mea culpa, but it posted after because it took me awhile to write.

        1. Omigosh, my mom did this, too! Her dress was barely not white and was sparklier than mine.

    12. It depends. I generally don’t care that much about my weight. I’ve never been considered over weight but I don’t strive for a really low weight either. I have a friend that is just obsessed about weight. She works in the fitness industry. Everything with her is all about “but, is it healthy” and how many miles she got in that day. She really is great aside from that obsession though. We went on a trip together and I was a tad worried about feeling self conscious in a swimsuit near her. Much to my surprise, my abs looked better than hers. Normally, I wouldn’t care at all but in this circumstance I got a bit of sweet satisfaction from that. Funny enough, she didn’t comment on a single thing I ate that whole trip.

        1. I know you probably didn’t mean anything but this now makes me so anxious for my upcoming beach vacation with my friends. I’ve been so busy with work the last 4-5 months and I feel like I’m not in my best shape and will feel awful in a bikini.

           1. Do you spend every waking minute talking about diet and exercise? No? Then people are not going to be focused on your midsection.

           2. As long as you haven’t been an obsessive jerk about how healthy your life is, they will not care or notice. Particularly if you don’t comment on what other people eat, like Depends’ friend seems to do.

           3. Yeah, there were at least three other girls there and I can’t tell you what their midsections looked like at all. I only noticed hers because she does not shut up about diet and fitness and tries to get everyone else on her bandwagon.

              Quick tip for being comfortable in your bathing suit. The first time you put it on in a long time you will feel naked no matter how awesome you look in it. Wear it around your house a bit leading up to your trip.

           4. You ladies are right. I’ve just been anxious/stressed generally lately. And good tip on wearing my bathing suit around my house before I go! I’m definitely going to do that. Glad I live alone ;-)

        2. I’m in this camp too. My anecdote: a good friend of mine was very close to a bride – as in, threw her shower and bachelorette, hosted her reception, etc. The bride waffled for a while, then eventually told her she could not be a bridesmaid because she was too fat. Under those circumstances, if friend had said to me, “I’m going to lose enough weight to be skinnier than bride on her wedding day,” I wouldn’t have batted an eye. And I did feel some satisfaction when I noticed that bride’s dress didn’t fit properly on the day of because she’d either gained some weight or didn’t lose as much as she thought she would.

        3. posted in wrong spot.

    13. Don’t feed this troll.

        …she’s clearly on a diet.

        1. LOL!

14. Does anyone have book recs for someone new to managing? I have a few direct reports now and I want to learn to be a great manager.

    1. Winning by Jack and Suzi Welch. It’s great.

       1. I haven’t read Becoming the Boss yet but I got it from the library and am optimistic. I also like Ask A Manager’s book.

    2. Help them Grow or what them Go, Work Happy, Growing Great Employees.

15. My dr recommended I get a nexplanon implant instead of continuing pills or getting an IUD. I have been using pills for years with few/no negative side effects. Has anyone gone from pill to nexplanon and experienced different side effects than those from the pill? (I know that I need to do my own research, just hoping for some personal anecdotes.)

    1. If your BC is working for you don’t switch it. You could end up hating the next thing. (Why did you dr recommend a switch?)

    2. I heard the implant causes weight gain and after 2 years, bone density loss. I have not heard anything good about implants.

    3. Before considering an implant, find out if it can be easily removed. I know that there are certain BC implants inserted into your arm (I think they dissolve over time) that can’t be removed. So if you end up hating it or having a bad reaction, you’re SOL until it wears off (and for some of them, that is years).

    4. Why an implant rather than an IUD? I’ve had an IUD for years and I love it to death. There have been many IUD discussions on this site with a significant majority positive experiences, you could search and read through them. You can go with hormonal or copper, and it is easy to remove if you change your mind or have any problems. Or stick with what is working for you. If this dr is really pushing an implant, I, frankly, would be going to a different dr for a second opinion.

    5. Well, I think it depends on which pill you’re on. The implant has one kind of hormone, and most pills have two kinds of hormones, if I remember correctly.

       I did not do very well on pills (constant nausea), but I do really well with the implant.

       I am on my third implant and I loooooove it. It’s very similar to the shot, which I also did and loved. I think the implant is like any other kind of BC, where it totally depends on your own body chemistry. It is very compatible with me, and I go years without having a period. Some people do horribly on it and spot constantly. And the thing is, depending on your insurance, the implant can be expensive, and if it doesn’t work for you, that’s money down the drain. Maybe see if you can do a trial run with the shot (which only lasts 3 months) to see if your body chemistry agrees with it?

       That said, I don’t know why your doc would have you change something that is working for you.

       1. Oh, and I think the only kind of implant there is is the plastic rod that goes in your arm. It does not dissolve, and can be removed in about 10 minutes at your doctor’s office. I’ve had it done twice. Also, people freak out and say you cant get pregnant after being on the implant, but I got pregnant like two months after I had my second one removed, so … it can happen.

    6. I’m actually going to be doing this soon. My pill is already a combo (estrogen and progesterone) and the implant is just the progesterone. A lot of the side effects people get are from the estrogen portion, with the exception of some funky bleeding for the first few months in some people (according to my doc). I have medical reasons for needing to switch, so I’m looking forward to it.

       1. but there are progesterone only pills as well. I did that for a while. And I had a lot of side effects from the hormonal pills, which finally got to be just too much, but switched to the hormonal IUD and haven’t had the tiniest problem ever. My dr highly recommended the IUD over the pill or an implant partly bc the hormones are concentrated in the necessary part of the body, rather than traveling through the bloodstream first.

          1. For me, its because of some of the additional medication I’m on. The implanted version doesn’t have this issue. I could get an IUD, but I already have significant migraine issues and Mirena (which is my preferred choice) causes them to flare for some reason.

    7. I switched from Yaz (or its generic version) to Nexplanon. I’ve now had it in for about a year and a half. I loved the pill but switched after I wanted a more long term option. I know I don’t want kids for at least the next three years, which is how long Nexplanon lasts. You can have the current implant removed and immediately replaced with a new one, no waiting necessary. The only side effect I noticed was I didn’t have a period for about six months after it was first inserted. Then my period regulated and everything has been normal since then. No weight gain, acne flair ups, or other reactions. I did bruise significantly where it was inserted and my arm was sore for about a week afterwards. But it was a quick 10-minuted procedure. I ended up going for the implant versus the IUD because of the potential issues with insertion and removal. Depending on the shape of your uterus (mine’s back titled) there may be a higher chance of an IUD piercing the walls or not being placed properly. Overall I love it, just one less thing to worry about every day.

16. Continuing in the vein of questions about HBC…. a bit TMI so feel free to skip.

    I’ve been on desogen (which I understand has low levels of hormones which is ideal) for about 6-7 years. It was great until about the last 6-8 months. I have always “stacked” packs of pills back-to-back so I only get a period every 6 weeks, it’s been great (my gyn knows and endorses this use of it). However, the last 6-8 months I’ve gotten a lot of random spotting (no matter what point I am in the 2 packs). It’s always brown-ish, not like actual period blood. It’s so annoying because it can show up whenever, is heavy enough to require using a pantyliner, and does not make me want to have s*x when it shows up. Has anyone had this happen after years of being on the same pill? I’m thinking maybe I need a pill with higher hormone levels but that makes me wary. And yes, I did schedule an appointment with my gynecologist.

    1. Something similar happened to me when I got very skinny from training for a marathon. You might want to check if there’s something similar, like weight loss or a change in activity level that could affect your hormone levels, but it could be normal changes, like the kind that happen with age. I ended up trying a couple birth control pills – the first was too low, but the second pill I took fixed it.

       1. thanks, this is reassuring, I will definitely address it with my gyn.

    2. I recently switched to Amethyst – a fully-continuous BCP; you get packs of 28 with no spacer or placebo pills. For years I used a generic equivalent to Ortho-Cyclen continuously, then developed the same spotting problem. Amethyst has a lower hormone level than my old pill, and that seems to have fixed it for me.

       1. that’s great to know- so no spotting with amethyst at all? was there a transition period where you had spotting? Thanks!

          1. I think it all cleared up in the first few weeks on Amethyst, so during the first pack. No spotting at all since then.

             Before trying Amethyst, while on my previous pill, I mentioned the spotting to my dr. and she had me take a double dose of my pill for 10 days to really build up the lining, then no pills for a week to induce bleeding – in the hopes that this would flush everything out, so to speak. Didn’t make any difference wrt spotting, and really reinforced for me how much I hate having a period.

    3. I run packs together and get spotting like you describe after about 10 or 11 weeks. I just take it as a cue to take the break when it’s convenient
       Not helpful I’m afraid, but just cosigning that this happens to me too.

    4. Might be too late, but this happened to me after being on desogen for several years as well. It really freaked me out at first, but I eventually got used to it and stopped worrying about it. Eventually, I moved doctors/insurers and they switched me to a different pill without telling me (grrr) but that’s a whole ‘nother story.

    5. I’m way late to this, but here’s my experience. Whenever I am on a pill that makes me not have a period (And I’ve been on a few different ones), I start spotting. I can go a few months without a period and without spotting, but then I start spotting every month. Sometimes just a few days, sometimes two plus weeks. Sometimes light enough not to need anything, and sometime sometimes heavy enough to need tampons/pads. I now have to decide which I prefer: horrible, but planned periods, or annoying but not painful spotting that can last weeks.

17. The Duke of York advocated the amendment. The
    Earl of Buckingham advocated the original decision. The idea of a legislature, consisting of a single branch, although advocated by
    some, was generally reprobated… A component solely of the body, whose trigger be advocates, coincide with
    him in judgment.

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