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Great simple satchel from Nanette Lepore — and it's on sale! The bag was originally $495, but Amazon has limited sizes and colors available for as low as $198, while Zappos and Endless are a bit higher (sigh). Nanette Lepore Trapunto Flap Satchel
(L-2)
Sales of note for 9.10.24
- Nordstrom – Summer Sale, save up to 60%
- Ann Taylor – 30% off your purchase
- Banana Republic Factory – Up to 50% off everything + extra 20% off
- Bergdorf Goodman – Save up to 40% on new markdowns
- Boden – 15% off new styles
- Eloquii – $29 and up select styles; up to 50% off everything else
- J.Crew – Up to 50% off wear-to-work styles; extra 30% off sale styles
- J.Crew Factory – 40-60% off everything; extra 60% off clearance
- Lo & Sons – Warehouse sale, up to 70% off
- M.M.LaFleur – Save 25% sitewide
- Spanx – Lots of workwear on sale, some up to 70% off
- Talbots – BOGO 50% everything, includes markdowns
- White House Black Market – 30% off new arrivals
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And some of our latest threadjacks here at Corporette (reader questions and commentary) — see more here!
Some of our latest threadjacks include:
- What to say to friends and family who threaten to not vote?
- What boots do you expect to wear this fall and winter?
- What beauty treatments do you do on a regular basis to look polished?
- Can I skip the annual family event my workplace holds, even if I'm a manager?
- What small steps can I take today to get myself a little more “together” and not feel so frazzled all of the time?
- The oldest daughter is America's social safety net — change my mind…
- What have you lost your taste for as you've aged?
- Tell me about your favorite adventure travels…
Equity's Darling
Happy Thanksgiving to all the Canadians!
Anonymous
Thanks! (I have to work — but YAY! I’m employed!)
Equity's Darling
I have to work too.
And I’m not flying home for Thanksgiving dinner. I think if my mother could, she’d send a scathing email to the entire office… and there were threats made regarding Christmas.
Suffice to say, I will be doing *everything* in my power to make it home, even if it means going into our office out there to get work done while I’m away from the office here.
Esquirette
This. Don’t discount the option of working remotely. I worried about this a lot when I first started practicing but I don’t give a hoot any more (particularly as I sit alone in my office most of the time even when I’m in). Pack up banker boxes of work and ship them from your office and just work from home. Unless your office is heavy on face time – don’t sweat it. *Disclaimer – Obviously easier if, you know, you don’t have to go to court or something. :)
Anonymous
I’m at a client’s location on the other side of the planet! No turkey for me!
Coach Laura
Happy Thanksgiving to all lovely Canadian Corporettes!
Happy long weekend to those of us in the US who have Monday off.
Diana Barry
Hey pregnant ladies – I am wearing this awesome dress from ASOS today:
http://us.asos.com/ASOS/ASOS-Maternity-Dress-In-East-Village-Poppy-Print/Prod/pgeproduct.aspx?iid=1723799&cid=5813&sh=0&pge=0&pgesize=20&sort=-1&clr=Print&r=2
It is really cute. But if you want to get it, size WAY up. I am normally an 8 and had to get a 12 in order to get the boobs (34DD) and shoulders to fit.
Bursting out
Cute! Are you wearing it with leggings? It looks super-short.
kim
How is that maternity wear when the model is zero months pregnant?!
Anne-on
Cute! I just took a chance and bought some maternity jeggings from old navy based on a recommendation from a previous poster. Hopefully they work for weekend wear!
SF Bay Associate
With all the markdowns happening at Nordie’s and such (my ShopItToMe email has been huge recently), that can only mean that the winter lines are coming in soon. I’m on the hunt for the perfect pair of 3″ special occasion shoes in a colored satin or maybe a colored glitter, and I’m hoping that the winter/holiday lines will have great options because I really haven’t seen anything quite right yet.
Happy weekend everyone!
Anne-on
Have you checked Kate Spade? They always seem to have the cutest special occasion shoes, though i wish some of them were just a teeeny bit shorter.
SF Bay Associate
Yes, I am stalking the website daily :). The trick is that I want a *closed toe* special occasion shoe, so those are bit harder to find. And it has to be 3″, not 3.5″ or 4″, which a lot of special occasion shoes seem to be. I’m hoping the new glitter Karolinas will come in other glitter colors. I also don’t want a dohickey on the shoe toe, which Kate Spade loves doing. I could clip the silly thing off, but then I’ve paid for an embelishment I am not using.
GRA, looking to spend between $200 and $600 I think. Loubies irk me on principle. I don’t want to buy shoes from a guy who has publicly stated he doesn’t care if his shoes are comfortable because he designs them only for looks. They really are beautiful though.
GRA
I can appreciate that. If I see anything more reasonable (both cost-wise and socially conscious-wise) I’ll send them your way!!
GRA
PS – have you looked at Zappos? I types in glitter heels and bunch of options came up – and some were actually wearable!
mamabear
Nina always makes a pair or two of reasonably-heeled special occasion shoes. Cheaper than what you’re looking for, though. Hope that’s not too disappointing!
GRA
I have seen lots of lovely, glittery shoes pinned on Pinterest recently, but they all seem to be Louboutins. Not sure how much you are looking to spend, though.
Nonny
SF Bay Associate, not sure if you are looking for something for your upcoming nuptials, but if you are, you might want to consider ballroom dance shoes. You can get them in specific heel heights (3″ is common) and easily dye the satin ones whatever colour you want. Glitter ones are less common, but I know people who decorate theirs with rhinestones. Plus, dance shoes are incredibly comfortable.
(If you aren’t looking for wedding shoes, I wouldn’t necessarily recommend dance shoes since they are suede-soled so not great for general traipsing about in the out-of-doors.)
SF Bay Associate
I guess I was trying to keep my inquiry out of the “obnoxious bride” topic area and more generalized and interesting the the general populace. Busted. I have thought about dance shoes, but there will be some out-of-door traipsing. Plus I’m hoping to wear my awesome shoes again during other fun events in the future (and thus do not want shoes that are “bridal”), so dance shoes ended up being nixed. Thanks for the suggestion though :).
AEK
I don’t think shoes are ever an obnoxious topic! Especially on an open thread.
I would recommend Stuart Weitzman (I loved the ones I wore on my “special occasion”) or Kate Spade based on you price range & what you’re looking for. I got some inspiration from the evening-shoe sections of the Neimann Marcus and Saks websites, and then hunted for deals elsewhere. Manolo has great closed-toe options, but yikes on the price!
If you change your mind about heel height (and price!), how about these? They can also be Something Blue:
http://tinyurl.com/3vf8chy
kidding, btw.
crazy4shoes
I know some people may find this offensive, but Nordstrom’s policies allow you to return your shoes for whatever reason, or for no reason, EVEN IF THEY HAVE BEEN WORN. No questions asked. I got $500 shoes for my wedding, and then returned them. The salesperson who sold them to me explicitly told me I could do this–it was his way of closing the sale. I figured that if he was encouraging it, then there was no reason not to do it.
Anonymous
Was there anything wrong with them? If not … this doesn’t seem “offensive” to me … it seems plain wrong.
Taylor
This is Corporette. I would hope that the ladies who frequent this site have some scruples. I cannot imagine intentionally buying shoes, wearing them, and then returning. Just the way I was raised, I guess.
kng
FWIW, i wore 3 1/2 inch purple to silver ombre sequin pumps by the Nina brand at DSW for my wedding. I found them at DSW the week before my wedding and was sold, especially because they were only $50 (at regular price mind you). I had a December wedding, so they were probably holiday party shoes/
Bonnie
These have a dohickey but are gorgeous. http://www.zappos.com/kate-spade-new-york-karmen-cobalt-satin
just Karen
I don’t know if they are very comfortable, but I’ve been shopping around for the same “special occasion” and am drooling over the “design your own” options at Milk and Honey http://www.milkandhoneyshoes.com/
I love the “tie the knot” style as well, but I am hoping to stick to a smaller budget and am thinking about having a pair of ivory leather (peep-toe, slingback) Nine Wests dyed a vivid color – I never wear ivory shoes, and I already know they are super comfortable b/c I have them in three other colors.
KatieH.
I actually have a pair of milk & honey shoes (i got a gift certificate for my birthday) and they are super comfy — really padded and lovely!
anon
This could be a lame comment, but does anyone feel like people are always holding out for the best option when it comes to meeting up with friends? I always have people agree to meet up for drinks or whatever (and suggest it, most of the time) then bail for reasons to me seem to be made up. I wonder who these “really busy” people are, and why I am not one of them (i.e., why don’t I have 50 important and fun things come up at once that I have to bail).
I feel like its the culture of the city I’m in, or maybe these people never wanted to go out in the first place. Or, am I being paranoid? It’s started to make me feel like a loser, for lack of a better phrase.
Sarah
I just wanted to say your post made me feel better. I’ve been trying for more than a month and a half to get four of my closest friends from college together. Two were great and chose this coming weekend while the third just doesn’t respond. I know as people start to have kids that it gets tough (I’m a stepmom for the past six years to a now highschooler). But the calling and emails and texts it has taken to try to get a basic time, date and place on a calendar is just ridiculous. It’s like fear of committing to a date in case something better comes along. It’s left me not even wanting to do this anymore. I’m slammed with work and yet I’m supposed to play cruise director here or something? The other two don’t want to proceed w/out the third. Sometimes a “no” is actually kinder than a “maybe”–it’s making everyone else wait until the last minute now.
zora
Seriously! Slightly different but the same idea: my friends apparently haven’t heard of calendars, so they just say yes to every invite, and make ‘plans’ to hang with every friend they have on the coming weekend, and then of course, they can’t be in 20 places at once, so they end up doing something else and just bail on me with a ‘oh, sorry, i can’t make it. next time?’ …
but since I don’t have 20 activities in my pipeline (because i hate ditching people!!) i end up having nothing to do! Don’t you realize that when you bail on me an hour before we’re supposed to hang out, it is impossible for me to now find someone else who is also free, and now I will end up spending friday night alone!?
is this just the new thing? Do people not use calendars and stick to commitments anymore?
Equity's Darling
I think you might have hit the nail on the head- lots of people in my age group don’t stick to commitments anymore- and those of us that act otherwise suffer for being organized in our social lives.
Also, I love calendars and agendas. They make me so happy. Especially ones that you write in, instead of electronic ones.
Bella
I think my social circle has faced evolution. With friends that can plan, I spend my prime weekend times. If I have good parties, I go with them. Saturday night dinner? Reliable friends! Me cooking? For reliable friends! NYE? With reliable friends!
The flaky people get sqeezed into the gaps or just not invited. Mostly the latter. Say, a sunday afternoon 4-6. I also tell them to come to my place. If they bail at the last moment or are late, I can just do some reading, surf the web, relax. I’m okay with cleaning up for the canceller, because then at least my apartment is clean :-)
LawyrChk
Completely agreed. This is a pet peeve of mine, and a reason that I’ve “broken up” with many friends. If we make plans and you cancel without a true emergency, you get one freebie and then you are not getting back onto my calendar.
I honestly think it’s a case of total narcissism (as in, I think my plans and time are so much more important than anyone else’s).
FWIW, people who are serially late fall into the same bucket for me.
MeliaraofTlanth
No, apparently they can’t. And apparently “maybe” is now an acceptable rsvp. Maybe does not help me plan food and drink amounts if I’m planning a party. Drives me insane.
Almost as insane as my friends not being willing to come to my apartment in Queens. It’s ONE STOP from Grand Central, and yet people act like I might as well live in Mars. When I lived in Manhattan, I never had a problem getting friends to come over, but now that I live in Queens… Oh the horror, evidently.
Alanna of Trebond
I am definitely guilty of this. I really hate having to go into other boroughs, or even the Lower East Side (train desert!). I don’t have any friends who live in Queens, but have a few friends out in Brooklyn and I drag my feet about that …sometimes that train just doesn’t run as frequently and it is really difficult to get a cab back, so that’s my excuse.
Kaye
It’s pretty easy to get a cab or car service back from Brooklyn.
CSF
Agreed. I hate the “I don’t see why not” answer to the “are you coming?” question. I can’t make plans based on that!
Anon
I had a friend who was always way too busy to ever get together. And when she would finally find a time to squeeze me into her very important schedule she would, without fail, cancel the day we were supposed to get together. I finally gave up trying to get together and the friendship dies off. I decided it just wasn’t worth trying to be friends with someone who felt she needed to be best friends with everyone and never give any time to anyone.
kim
I had a friend like that – once she said “well other people were also going so I thought it would be okay to cancel.” She was actually surprised when I blew up. I too feel that lots of people do this now – try figuring if you have enough to field a team for soccer with a bunch of maybes!
MB
Me too. She’s downgraded to acquaintance status now.
After being stood up umpteen times, I realized that our supposed friendship and my inconvenience was obviously much less important to her than her own. I decided to value myself and spend my time with people I enjoy and who value my friendship.
Equity's Darling
Honestly, I find that super annoying also, and it happens frequently to me. It always makes me feel so pathetic when it happens, especially if I’ve taken the time to make reservations, or whatnot.
I think I find it irritating because I work SO very hard to never flake out.
Even if it means really putting myself out (e.g. working until 2am, so that I can make lunch the next day, when I could have gone home at midnight and worked through lunch).
I always see it as a matter of priority, and I’ve just stopped putting in the effort for those who cancel at the last minute, and give me BS excuses. It means that friendships die, but honestly…I’m busy enough that I’m going to give my time to those who care and who are willing to do the same for me.
There are a couple people who I’ve explicitly told “if you want to see me, it’s on you to make the plans because I’m sick of feeling like I’m the last option” (which is effectively a friend-break-up, I know, but at that point, I’m usually over it, and I feel they ought to know why).
anon
Original anon here.
All of the above made me feel SO MUCH BETTER. I am organized and when I commit to someone I actually want to go and make a point of showing up. I only cancel for legit reasons (the only times I’ve bailed are for work (ex waitress here being called in last minute) or sick).
And yup, it often leaves me without plans on a Friday.
You know what irks me? These are the girls who would NEVER do the same thing to a guy on a date, yet because I’m not a potential hubbie I get 4th class treatment!
zora
echoing those thanks, I feel a little better now, too, knowing that it’s not just me, and that i’m not completely insane for thinking it’s lame to ditch people. and thanks, anon, for starting this thread!
however, this doesn’t necessarily help the original problem… i just recently moved to a new city, so I only had a few friends to begin with, and I don’t know if it’s a SF thing, but every friend i thought i had here has turned out to be this way. So, I guess I’m at the point where I’m giving up. I’ve been spending every weekend alone at home anyway, so i might as well eliminate the stress and disappointment of being ditched and just not make plans in the first place.
but thanks for the support, ‘rettes!
Read more: https://corporette.com/2011/10/07/weekend-open-thread-103/#ixzz1a84oLZxE
Anonymous
Well put, well written post! (Can you tell I’ve been writing since 5:30am…)
zora
ugh, don’t know why i keep getting stuck in moderation, but I’m trying again.
i want to say thanks to everyone, I do feel better now, knowing that it’s not just me, and that i’m not completely insane for thinking it’s lame to ditch people. and especially thanks to the OP anon, for starting this thread!
this doesn’t necessarily help the original problem, though… i just recently moved to a new city, so I only had a few friends to begin with, and I don’t know if it’s a SF thing, but every friend i thought i had here has turned out to be this way. So, I guess I’m at the point where I’m giving up. I’ve been spending every weekend alone at home anyway, so i might as well eliminate the stress and disappointment of being ditched and just not make plans in the first place.
but thanks for the support, rettes!
kim
Totally not an SF thing – I’m in DC!
Kaye
Very much a New York thing. I hate it, find it very offensive.
PollyD
I think we could all be friends – I never say I will attend something unless I’m at least 90% sure I can. I’ve reduced it from 100% because I realized I was missing out on a lot of things I could have gone to, but because I wasn’t 100% certain at the time I was asked, I said no. I’m lucky that most of my friends are of the non-flake type. I think I’ve weeded out most of the flakey ones.
I blame society – for some reason, people do not feel required to keep social obligations. Not really sure why, because it is very rude. Especially flaking at the last minute. I don’t know how people live with themselves, cancelling on friends at the last minute for reasons that are not very good. Or maybe there’s a fear of not appearing “busy” – like, if I am able to keep to my plans I must not be social enough/working hard enough, because only layabouts with vast amounts of free time could possibly keep their appointments?
I guess it’s one of those social niceties that is going away, like walking to the right and having waitstaff actually write down your order instead of coming back to the table to ask what it was again and needing to be corrected.
TX Attny
Agreed! A friend who recently got married had several people cancel on attending her wedding after they had RSVPd ‘yes’. She paid for their spot, and to not show up without a very good reason (“my child has tests next week” is not a good reason) seems extra rude.
eaopm3
I have had some very similar experiences lately with my friends. I rarely, if ever, bail on something that I committed to do. Two of my girlfriends were supposed to come over for dinner one night. H and I are on a tight budget right now and cooking something special for two extra people makes a difference in the weekly cash-stash… they bailed on me and I made sure they both knew that it upset me. I also haven’t offered to cook for them since then. I’m not sure what the deal is. Are people afraid to say “no” in the first place? Or are people just being flaky? I’m not sure, but I feel your pain.
Alex
I’ve stopped planning things due to stuff like this. I feel better now, too. I seem to have only kept the friends that I see a lot and know that if they do bail, there is probably a good reason, and it won’t happen the next time. Unfortunately, it’s left me with a fairly small circle! I definitely try to stick to my commitments – but I have made a point to just say no if I can’t go!
AnonAnon
I have to admit I’ve been on both ends of the canceling equation. I feel like in academia **everyone cancels**. It’s such a pita….people get so wrapped up in heir work that they sort of want to hang out with friends but when it comes down to it they would rather perfect their research paper than have a social life and so they cancel. I eventually stopped tryin to make plans with anyone else with a PhD!
As for myself, I sometimes have to cancel because of my kids. You never know what’s going to happen with small hildren. Maybe I only got 1 hour of sleep the night before, maybe my childcare fell through and I have to work all night…my partner and I try to tag team it but sometimes both of us end up canceling.
I did cancel in a way that was pretty rude recently so at the risk of getting flamed I will post it….I met this woman who seemed very nice and we made dinner plans (at an expensive restaurant). Then. The day of she posted something ultra conservative on her face book. I was really busy and had been bending over backwards to make the dinner plans work, and after I saw that I just couldn’t Marshall the energy to make it happen. So like a bee-yotch I canceled. I still kind of feel bad about it but what’s done is done….sorry about typos im on an auto-correct happy iPhone!
MelD
There are a lot of people like that and I think you just have to do your best to work around it. I think the best bet in those situations is to make sure you’re not just meeting the flaky person so your whole night isn’t ruined if someone doesn’t show up.
That said, I have some friends I expect will be flaky because they have small children who get sick all the time. I know there is a 50% chance I won’t hear anything and will then find out one of the children was sick and got the whole family sick. Usually in that case it’s kind of the opposite because the friend is actually desperate to get out but can’t.
Recently Downgraded
This may not be the case for you, but a friend’s somewhat flighty wife recently admitted to me that they never respond to invites or include me because I am single. They (and it appears almost all of my other friends) have moved on to the engaged/married phase of their lives and only wish to associate with other couples. I’m glad to finally know that it’s because I’m always a third or fifth wheel, but it was really upsetting when, at a bridal shower, she asked about my SO whom I had to admit just left me because of my job demands and her response was that she was sorry to hear that because she and her husband (my long time close friend) were looking forward to spending more time with the two of us but they would not be seeing me by myself. It’s not like you need your friends or anything during a difficult breakup.
zora
ugh, Downgraded, that is LAME! :( i’m so sorry about that. ::::huggsss:::::
Nonny
Argh. As someone who was single for a long time before meeting my SO, this irks me to no end. I know in some cases the couple doesn’t want to invite the singleton because they don’t want the singleton to feel out of place due to being….the singleton, but honestly, I couldn’t care less about that – it was always far more important to me to see my friends! At this point I think it is just rude and unfeeling to eliminate someone solely because they aren’t in a couple. And hello, some people even *like* being single.
Anon
As a married woman, I think that is lame. I find the success of gatherings/dinners/etc. are based more on who the people I invite are personality-wise, not what their marital status is.
RL
Wow. That is amazingly rude and thoughtless – I’m so sorry you were treated that way, but I have a feeling you’re better off staying far away from those people anyway.
EC MD
Sorry, but that is not friend really. What bee-yotch.
JJ
That’s horrifying. I’m married and work in BigLaw and my husband works 80+ hours a week, but we still make plenty of time for hanging out separately with friends (whether those friends are single or not). I feel like I need to apologize on behalf of all married people to you.
Esquirette
That is terrible. As sucky as it is — these people suck more. I sincerely hope that this just is an opportunity for much better people to enter your life because you won’t be wasting your time with your former friends.
CO
That is so incredibly rude and lame. A lot of my friends are couples, but I make a point to hang out with my single friends as well. My best friend has admitted to me that she doesn’t like to be the third wheel ALL the time, so sometimes I let my significant other know it’s a “girl’s night” and he can make other plans. Plus it’s nice to talk openly with just girls sometimes. Couples don’t always have to do the same things.
Always a NYer
Wow, what a b*tch! I know people will think this way sometimes but to actually say it out loud is incredibly rude, not to mention hurtful. I would tell your friend about what she said to you and how upset you were by it. It may strain the relationship you have with him, but seeing as his wife won’t “allow” you to hang out with them, you have nothing to lose.
~*~hugs~*~
mamabear
It’s because you’re a girrrrllll and she’s being weird about her husband being friends with a female other than her. Try not to take it personally. This happened to me with one of my long-term guy friends, and we’re still friends, but we mostly get together for lunches now. (there has never ever ever been anything other than friendship between us)
Recently Downgraded
The attached girls do it too – they just aren’t as thoughtless as this guy’s wife and would never admit it. I get your point though – I had a friend from college and law school whose wife was bothered with me for that reason until she met me and then we became friends in our own right and she never questioned the friendship again. It’s pretty obvious that I’m no competition for the respective wives.
PirateLawyer
I have to say, as another single person, I have heard this a number of times as well, i.e., “I miss your company, and I’d love to see you more, but it’s just so much EASIER to do things with other couples. I hope you get a really great boyfriend so we can spend more time together.” It sucks, and is incredibly lame! I am a happy, whole person with or without a man in my life–it’s insulting to suggest otherwise, which is how these sorts of comments feel.
Prentis
I feel like the problem there is with the husband. I hand out with my girlfriends my ourselves, or sometimes will invite 1 or 2 out with my bf.
AN
Not a singleton, but that is the worst treatment ever. So you + SO = ok? You, alone are not ok? Crap.
Anonymous
RD,
Don’t waste your time on her. She sounds like an awful person.
zora
thanks all, I do feel better now, knowing that it’s not just me, and that i’m not completely insane for thinking it’s lame to ditch people.
however, this doesn’t necessarily help the original problem… i just recently moved to a new city, so I only had a few friends to begin with, and I don’t know if it’s a SF thing, but every friend i thought i had here has turned out to be this way. So, I guess I’m at the point where I’m giving up. I’ve been spending every weekend alone at home anyway, so i might as well eliminate the stress and disappointment of being ditched and just not make plans in the first place.
but thanks for the support, ‘rettes!
Left coaster
Hey Zora — I’m new to SF too! If you see this, let me know — I am in a similar situation and would love to have a meetup (work in FiDi).
SF
Hey girls! I’m new to SF too and would totally be down for a fidi coffee date (with a firm RSVP of course!).
zora
aw, all you overachieving chicks are making me feel so much better!!
Left coaster & SF, I would love to meet up! drop me an email and i’ll try to coordinate: zora dances at gmail dot com
in case anyone sees this: i love the folks who set up the bay area meet up last month, I was really hoping I could make it, but it was a bad weekend for me. I’d love to come to the next one!
Left coast flakey
I do think it’s a SF thing. People move to SF to pursue their passions, from windsurfing to fire dancing, and become totally wrapped up in these passions and the small circle of friends that does the same activity. Plus, there’s a culture of being very busy in SF – always doing doing doing – so when you try to make plans with someone they might be free three weeks from Thurs.
Finally, in my experience, SFers tend to overextend themselves, both professionally, avocationally, and socially, and then find themselves to zonked to muster the energy to follow through with a plan.
This doesn’t excuse it, just some explanatory observations from my experience. The best defense: pick up some of these passionate hobbies, and be just as busy as everyone else :-)
Imp
I have a friend problem too. I will call my friend and make plans for lunch the following week and then I’ll get a call two hours before we’re supposed to meet letting me know she invited 10 other people. Her reasoning is if she’s in the area she might as well see everyone. This has happened multiple times, a couple of times with no warning at all. My husband refuses to socialize with them anymore (neither of us are fans of the friends she ends up inviting). She thinks I’m being weird about it and doesn’t think she’s doing anything wrong.
lalala
I had a really good friend do this and I called her on it. Granted, it was easier because she was coming to my town and staying with me, so I obviously expected to see her ALONE.
If she didn’t get the point and adjust I would probably have had to let the friendship go. I don’t want to be a social butterfly and I shouldn’t be forced to. Your husband gave you good advice :)
Anonymous
I just wanted to throw a different perspective out here. Granted this probably does not apply to the vast majority of the flaky friends described by everyone in this thread, but maybe it applies to a few, and I think a little bit more understanding would be helpful in any event.
I’ve been one of these flaky friends before — well maybe not true “friends” but at least I’ve flaked out on people whom I’ve tried to be friends with, or acquaintenances or colleagues that I’ve tried to make plans with. The reasons aren’t always as lame or obvious as you may think, but I’m sure it can totally come across that way. My reasons have almost always related to my severe social anxiety and depression, and I’m sure that for the vast majority of these times, the other person has had no idea of that (and it just isn’t always appropriate to tell them), and so they assume the worst. There have been times in the past when I’ve really want to spend time with someone, or maybe my therapist or family pushes me to do this so I go ahead and make the plans, but then as the event gets closer, I get really scared and anxious, and I start dreading it big-time (even though there’s no rational reason to dread it, and there’s nothing “scary” about it, but I still start obsessively dreading it and cannot think of anything else except how to get out of it), and the end result is that I basically end up cancelling on them, and then spend that time when I would’ve been out with them alone in bed at home feeling guilty — but at least more relaxed (physically) because I’ve avoided an anxiety-provoking situation.
Another (somewhat similar) reason that I’ve cancelled on people before is that my depression will sometimes get worse — and sometimes this is more frequent when I’m switching meds and/or trying to deal with things differently — but during those rare moments when I am feeling better I will try to make plans with someone, thinking that some social contact will help ease the depression… but then this depression will overcome me and I will cancel because either (1) I’m afraid that if I go see someone in this state I will be so emotionally unstable that I’ll either look like I’m so unhappy that they’ll spend the whole time asking me if I’m ok, or even worse, I’ll just start crying and be unable to control my emotions around them, or (2) I’m too depressed to have the energy to even fake an interest in doing something that day, and also too depressed to care whether this is “taking the easy way out” or not, and just want to go home to bed, so if I can, I do.
I’m really not trying to make excuses or justify anything, and I take full responsibility for those times when I’ve done this and it’s inconvenienced someone else — I’ve accepted the consequences of the lost friendship or messed-up work relationship, and am trying to get better at this myself. My purpose of writing this here (and probably way over-sharing to perfect strangers) is just to provide an alternative explanation in the hopes of promoting some understanding — even if it doesn’t apply to 99% of these situations, it could still apply to that 1%, and is worth considering.
Recently Downgraded
You make a very good point and it is worth considering. I think most of us are talking about the friends who then proceed to post photos of what else they’re doing that night on FB or tell us how awesome it was when we finally next see them. It’s obvious that they have double-booked themselves and we came in 2nd, or 3rd, place.
In your case, maybe the plans that were initially made are overwhelming for you and an alternative place/activity might make you feel more comfortable? As long as you’re keeping the date, it shouldn’t be too big of deal if its moved to a favorite coffee shop you’re at ease in or to your (or the other person’s) place for take out or a red box movie. Try something that you’re really good at and will be confident with; maybe teaching them will be a distraction from your anxiety. A friend will understand that you want to see them, but may not be up for certain things. I’ve often countered “let’s get dressed up and go to an expensive club downtown” with “how about board games/movies/lots of chocolate at my place in our sweats?” and it was well received. Lately, I’ve been rather depressed myself and just decline everything because, like you, I’m not happy and would rather not have to explain or justify it. [No, I can’t just turn the sad switch off for someone else’s good time. And, yes, that was me trying to be friendly and social and pleasant. I’m usually much more despondent.]
Anonymous
Thanks, that’s a good suggestion that I’ll keep in mind.
Not a Party Animal
This is totally me, when it comes to parties! I can easily keep plans with one or two friends, but when I’m invited to a party – esp. if I won’t know very many people there – I get more and more nervous about it in the lead up, that by partytime, I want nothing more to crash out on the couch and veg. It’s such a bummer – I end up feeling flaky and guilty for not following through on my rsvp, and feeling lame for not being better at socializing. Some of us are just not party animals.
Kaye
I think it’s much less rude to cancel when it’s a large party than on a one-on-one activity – so don’t worry too much abou ti.
zora
aw, Anonymous, don’t be so hard on yourself. It sounds like you have a tough thing to deal with, and that sucks, I wish I could give you a hug.
Don’t feel so guilty, please, if someone is cancelling on me because they don’t feel up for it, I completely understand, and just want them to take care of themself.
I’m definitely only upset with friends when I know for a fact they are ditching me for other (better) plans. I understand that there are legitimate reasons for having to cancel sometimes.
take care!
becoming that friend
Ugh. I feel like I’m about to become that friend and I don’t know what to do about it. About a month ago, another friend and I thought that a road trip to visit a very good friend who moved away sounded like a lot of fun. It’s a 9 hour drive and now we’re having second thoughts. For one thing, my friend who was going to drive lost her mother and took a long drive with her family to the funeral. I need to resolve a problem with new glasses and can’t do anything about it until after I see my doctor (the day before we’re supposed to leave) and I’m looking around my house and thinking “What was I thinking?” knowing that I need to get caught up on cleaning and would love a 4 day weekend at home. But I hate to disappoint my friend, who has been looking forward to our visit. I gave her a heads-up about the glasses thing but I feel like such a weenie…
Anon
Honestly, this is why I prefer to have bar-room acquaintances instead of friends. “Friends” are flaky, and a HUGE time suck. Bar-room acquaintances can be found at your regular bar whenever you drop in, which you do on YOUR schedule. If they aren’t there on occasion so what. Once in a GREAT while a bar-room acquaintance will get promoted to being someone you see outside the bar, but generally not. Instead of trying to get friends together at a place and time, it’s easier to go to a place at a time and acquaint yourself with whoever is there.
North Shore
Any thoughts on “psychology of color” for clothes? I recall my dad, in his 1980s business executive days, explaining to me that he wore a navy blue suit when he wanted to appear trustworthy, and he said a tan/brown suit would not give you power. I can’t remember what he said about other colors. Anyway, I’m trying to decide between navy and gray for an upcoming argument, and I know either one would be appropriate, but I keep hearing my dad’s words in my head about wearing navy.
And I hope the little offhand comments I make to my children won’t stick in their heads like this!
MJP
Of course your offhand comments will stick in your children’s heads! Wear whichever suit makes you feel the best – that confidence will come through in the argument. (I might have a stronger opinion if the choice were between, say, navy and pastel pink.)
mamabear
I have read more than one place that navy is associated with honesty and trustworthiness, so if it were me, I’d go for that one.
Anonymous
I never understood the negative attitude on brown. Navy and gray are classic summer colors and my fair, freckled, brown-eyed husband looks so much better in the warm tones. He just bought a brown suit and looks so good in it!
A
No brown in town! Definitely not the norm in the UK to wear brown, and after working there, it looks out of place to me here. A shame, because I do love a nice chocolate brown suit.
Bella
I think it’s because cool colours tend to be associated with city/business life, and warm colours with the country/leisure.
But that association really depends on the outfit and material. If you are wearing brown/hunter green and camel together and the materials are tweed, cordury, thick knits, then yes, you will look like you might put a waxcoat over it and go for a long walk in the forest. Not so much if you wear an all season wool pantsuit in bitter chocolate and a sleek top in tomato red.
Navy and gray however are both clearly business colours.
Lk
I just got fired from a job I loved. It was not at all expected. In addition to being embarassed and ashamed I see deadlines for loan payments looming only weeks away, and i’m terrified of the prospect of finding a job in this economy with a termination on my resume. I work(ed) in a specialized area of law … There are only 4 other places in town with a similar practice and since I got fired I don’t know if any of them will even consider me now. What do I do now? Please help.
TruthWizard
Oh, LK! I’m sorry to hear it. Question — when you say “fired,” is that something that would be immediately obvious to your next job? In this down economy, are the terms of your leaving something that could be positioned as a layoff? Just trying to get more information so you can get good help from this hive!
Lk
Good question. Unfortunately, I was fired…not meeting expectations, etc. My quibbles with their analysis are for another posting. I don’t know that it would be obvious on a resume that I was fired, but in such a specialized area, word gets around. Firms in my practice area will likely know.
b23
Your prior firm may be okay with you calling it a layoff . Something like this happened to a friend of mine, and they told her she could spin it however she wants. Maybe you could check with them?
L
I just went through this in January. I also worked in a specialized area, and loved my firm. It was rough!
First, take a deep breathe. Enjoy the weekend, and take a couple of days just to relax. There is nothing you can do now but move forward.
Next, were you actually fired? Or can this be considered a layoff? If it can, tell yourself that. Call your loan companies and see if you can put your payments on hold. Apply for unemployment, and make a plan for cutting costs as much as you can. The upside of this is when you do start working again, you can easily live off so much less! Network, network, network.
Finally, my best advice to save your sanity is have a routine that includes things you love every day. For me, I woke up, made a fantastic breakfast, took my dog to the dog park, watched Hoda and Kathy Lee, made a fantastic lunch, did job hunting for a few hours, etc.
For me, it all worked out for the best. I had to relocate, but I ended up in a firm that was minutes from my parents and my sister, and it has been wonderful to see them again. Also, it turns out I really needed those six months off. There was surprisingly little shame in being unemployed when it came to interviews. I really feel for you, and I look forward to updates!
L
Another tip that set me apart in interviews…
Lots of people are unemployed. What can set you apart is what you do with your unemployment. I ended up giving talks at my undergrad and law school, publishing an article, did some volunteer work, and helping out a friend with a solo practice on some work that was outside of what I normal did as a lawyer. Firms loved to talk about that in interviews.
GovtMom
OH NO — I’m so sorry. :-(
Ditto to the others’ questions. Were you actually fired, due to a mistake you made or something horrible you did (and I mean REALLY horrible)? Were you given the opportunity to voluntarily resign? Unless you were actually fired, due to some serious mistake, I would spin this as a lay-off or parting of ways.
Lk
Nothing horrible. I worked nights, weekends, crazy hours because I really did love my job. Clients loved me, other firms loved me … I just wasn’t what my firm wanted. Apparently.
I guess with any relationship, if only one of you wants to stay in, it isn’t working and can’t be fixed. But I’m having flashbacks to my insecure 12 year old self – why didn’t they like me? It feels very personal, to have someone tell you you’re no good at something that you’ve put so much of yourself into, and given up so much to be a part of.
Esquirette
I’m so sorry that this has happened to you. I think that this is a fear and a feeling that a lot of people can relate to. Try not to take it personally. I hear that this is harder for women — it is for me, I invest so much of myself in my job. But if it’s a matter of just not fitting, then that’s it. It’s not that there’s anything wrong with you. Identify who at your ex-firm you can use as a reference, and consider reaching out to your contacts at other firms and at clients, all of whom can speak to your strengths — then get your resume out there with these people as references. You’re an associate, and were laid off, so you shouldn’t be barred from contacting clients (check your ethics rules!). These people will know you are gone soon enough too. As tough as the conversation will be, don’t go into details or bash your old firm. If you were truly appreciated, you’ll likely get sympathy and support in helping you make connections and find a new job. Good luck!!
CO
I feel for you! When I went through a tough time, I read a few pages from The Bounce Back Book: How to Thrive in the Face of Adversity, Setbacks, and Losses by Karen Salmansohn each day. I think I’ve mentioned this book before on this blog, actually, but it gives you these totally digestible tidbits of advice that are very practical and uplifting. It might help you deal with some of the psychological pain you’re going through. I hope you land on your feet and feel better soon!
FanGirl
I’m so very sorry this happened to you! The same thing happened to me about six months ago so I can definitely relate. I was depressed for a bit because I felt helpless/used/broken up with. I had worked for the firm for several years, and worked my butt off. Suddenly, I was out and I had nowhere to go and nothing to do… I won’t even get started on my mother’s reaction.
I’m not sure what your story is, but as the typical overachieving kid, I haven’t had more than two weeks off since I was 14. What has not worked: spending too much time alone. Surfing my old firm’s site. Talking to friends about legal stuff. Going to AT to try on suits (bc really, when will I need a suit?) Looking up and adding up all of my student loan debt (over and over again). Here is what has worked: exercising, cooking, hanging out with my two dogs, cleaning house, hanging out with my boyfriend, and doing all the things I had set aside and ignored while working (like dusting, going to the tailor, insurance refunds, cleaning and repairing my watch, visiting my grandma.) Generally finding the silver lining.
Honestly, job searching sucks. I’ve sent at least 100 resumes out into the unknown. Some jobs thanked me but denied me. Others told me I’m simply overqualified. Most of them I never heard from. I did get some interviews but that was, literally, a month ago. I followed up with them and have heard nothing back either way. I’ve now mentally moved on and re-doubled my efforts. Next week I plan on contacting my local legal aid society to inquire about possible opportunities and I’ll finalize my dog-foster home application. After that I’m taking it a day at a time (if anyone else has suggestions on what to do on month 6, please throw them out!)
Right now it is important for you to take care of yourself. Take some time to absorb all that has happened. Can you stay with family or a friend? It sounds silly but it helps. Also, I stopped reading Corporette for a while because it made me sad that I no longer had a job. Don’t do that. This is a little piece of internet heaven.
Anon
I have an issue with fundraising in the office. Normally, I really don’t mind and occasionally I’ll buy somethings from my co-workers’ kids.
My big hang-up: fundraisers for institutions I loathe being conducted in the workplace. Chief among these are the Boy Scouts (for their homophobia) and some churches and youth groups. I always politely decline.
It’s like opening a Pandora’s Box of information about my colleagues that I never wanted to open. So please know that, intentionally or not, people like me do judge people based on the fundraisers brought into the office.
another anon
Yeah, I hate this too. Most people just leave the order form in a common area, but I have one co-worker (a superior), who will directly ask me if I will buy Boy Scout stuff. I object to the boy scouts for the same reason you do, but I don’t feel like I can say no, so I buy something.
I am also annoyed by all the school fundraisers that seem to be cropping up more and more. Frankly I would rather just donate some money rather than having to buy some crap that I don’t really want, and only having part of the money go to the school.
The only thing I don’t really mind are girl scout cookies. For obvious reasons.
CSF
My neice is only two years old. Her PRESCHOOL sent her home with fundraising information. What can a two year old possibly learn about fundraising, or the importance of money? No, all they wanted was for Mom to feel guilty and buy things, and rope family into buying.
Lucy
My kids’ former preschool (which had a bunch of affluent families attending, was affiliated with an affluent church, and had an endowment) had fundraisers all.the.time. including a wine-tasting (which, fine, but nothing quite says “early childhood education” like “lots of parents drinking and then driving home.”) I just boycotted, even when I got roped onto the *&^%& organizing committees.
I am also not especially good about fundraisers for my kids’ elementary school, although I’m a sucker for book fairs.
IMO it’s perfectly polite to say, “Oh, we budget our charitable donations at the beginning of the year, and tend to really stick with that plan.”
AnonAnon
You can just donate money instead of buying something I’d you prefer.
also anon
Agree on not wanting to participate in fundraisers for groups I don’t believe in. I think politely declining is appropriate and solves the immediate problem.
I also agree that knowing these things about people you work with can change the way you feel about them, sometimes for the better and sometimes otherwise.
I personally support the Boy Scouts and churches. Sorry that you “loathe” such groups.
K
not sure if your last sentence was intentionally worded with attitude or if I’m misreading but I too loathe boy scounts and church groups… when organizations promote bigotry and inequality to naturally open-minded youth, it perpetuates bullying and causes self-hatred, 2 areas we know cause suicide deaths in a growing number of youth.
If you choose to place your child in such situations, that’s your choice and I understand that it doesn’t matter whether I agree with how you raise your child. When you bring the catalog to me in a situation that causes me to go against my morals or take a professional political risk, that’s when I get upset.
I personally don’t see why this is even permitted in the workplace since it goes against why most organizations claim to fundraise as it doesn’t teach youth anything to have their parents do the work!
Anon-OP
Thanks K!
Noner
I think discounting the Boy Scouts and church groups on the basis of high level decisions and leanings discounts the good they can do at the local level. So, I find it a bit frustrating to hear someone do a blanket write off of two types of groups that can be helpful, despite national bad press.
Anon-OP
I agree that these groups can (and do) do good on a local level. I personally grew up as a Christian and was saddened to come to grips with my loathing.
Unfortunately, bullying happens on a local level too. I am very worried about children who commit suicide and I do believe we vote with every dollar that we spend.
Jas
The problem is that the local groups support the higher up groups. If it were an organization who didn’t allow black people to join or a business networking organization who had fought to exclude women because it believed women working outside the home were unnatural and wrong, wouldn’t you write off the local chapters, even if they hadn’t actively campaigned against women or black people (but didn’t have any female or black members) and did some good in the community? Sure, if the local chapter has publicly denounced the higher level views on gay people and has made an effort to include gay people in their group, I have no problem. But just as I’d rather not be approached by group with racist ties at work, I’d like groups with homophobic ties to stay out of my workplace.
Anonymous
Thanks, K. Couldn’t say it any better.
also anon
No, my last sentence was sincere. I am conservative and a Christian and it makes me sad to know that people loathe churches. I’m sure this is one of those times when we will have to agree to disagree.
Em
She didn’t say she loathed churches across the board; there are certain church groups with which she has an issue. Is there anyone on the planet who doesn’t have an issue with certain churches out of the thousands in existence?
Anonymous
She said she loathed church groups across the board. Seems to be a distinction without a difference…
Anon-OP
I was very careful to say that I only loathe some churches. I am more than happy to support some churches that I’ve personally approved. If I come across a church I am not familiar with, I do research the church before I decide whether to donate.
May be I should clarify that I loathe giving money to these organizations. The Salvation Army is a group I won’t donate to but I do donate used clothing to St. Vincent De Paul. I work in a church-sponsored soup kitchen where the sponsoring church would likely not accept my family because of homophobia.
Lyssa
I’m trying to say this in a non-rude way, but I really think that folks might do well to re-read your comment and think a little bit all of the people you loathe and your over-the-top generalized statements about church groups, and decide who really sounds like they have a problem with tolerance or open-mindedness here.
(Not a church-goer, and I don’t care for the fundraisers, either, particularly when the parents are doing the work, but I also don’t care for intolerance or bigotry. If I don’t like something, I just say no; I don’t hate the person for it.)
K
I don’t hate anyone for anything, but I believe we vote with every dollar we spend. For that reason, I don’t donate to Salvation Army but I send care packages to those in the Army who are stationed overseas. I don’t donate to the Boy Scouts but will assist when someone working toward his Eagle Scout distinction needs help cleaning up a local park.
It’s one thing to donate money/resources/time to a person in your community, it’s another to donate blindly without awareness of what the organization represents and encourages, or to do so without realizing that said organization isn’t in line with one’s own belief system.
Just my opinion, but really, I love such discussions since everyone has opinions and we seem to do pretty well hearing each other and respectfully debating :)
Anon
Agreed. I think it’s shocking that one equates boyscouts and churches with suicide deaths.
Em
Personally, I think it’s more shocking that youth in this day and age are still bullied into suicide because they’re gay.
Anon
And you think bullying is caused by churches and boyscouts? Or how about parents, teachers, and leaders in the community who do nothing to prevent it?
Anon-OP
It’s ironic that some organizations believe they are being discriminated against by someone not willing to buy a tin of popcorn, but have gone all the way to the U.S. Supreme Court to defend their right to exclude homosexuals.
I really try not to hate the people who won’t stand up to bullies who hate someone for being LGBT. Instead, I humbly do my best to treat those who are intolerant fairly and with dignity.
Em
I think organizations that exclude gay people and, in some cases, actively spread homophobia are partially responsible for creating a culture where that sort of bullying goes on, yes.
I’m not saying we should shun every member of the Boy Scouts. I just think that the fact that we have a culture of homophobia is a lot worse than being called out for homophobia when maybe possibly you could kind of quibble with how involved your organization particularly is in it and we should remember that.
anonymous
This times 100. Being quick to judge is not a positive trait and does not look good on anybody. If you do not support something, and don’t want to give your money, decline. Simple. No long story here.
Anonymous
Lyssa, thanks for your post!! I’m not a church-goer either, nor do I care for the fundraisers, but to equate all boy scouts or members of church organizations as homophobic bullies is just wrong-headed and super-duper prejudiced. Oh, and Anon-OP below, I think you need to re-read the posts. No one is saying that these groups are being “discriminated against by someone not willing to buy a tin of popcorn,” 0f course it’s your choice to say no and you are intitled to it. But when you go on to defame these groups as “bullies who hate someone for being LGBT,” you simply go to far. And to think in doing so you are being humble, fair, or dignified just adds insult to the injury.
Anonymous
I’m trying to say this as gently as possible, but to suggest that local boy scout groups and church groups “promote bigotry and inequality to naturally open-minded youth” is so shockingly judgmental and factually incorrect that I’m not even sure how to respond, except it makes me sad. If you don’t want to donate to a 6 year old selling popcorn cubicle by cubicle, then don’t. I don’t always agree with the higher-level beliefs of many organized groups, but that doesn’t mean that I won’t support the local chapters of those groups–because I am supporting the good works those local chapters do and the efforts of the young children who will hopefully gain enough self-confidence and leadership skills that they will not get sucked into bullying or self-hatred.
Lee B
It is not factually incorrect for all local groups of this sort. I know of two or three churches in my area that do “promote bigotry and inequality to naturally open-minded youth”. I think that, as in life in general, know who you are supporting before you do so!
non
And isn’t that where the fundraising money is usually going? To help the local troop? So, by boycotting the fundraiser, you’re hurting the local level, not the national agenda.
Anon for this
My husband is still recovering from the homophobia that he learned as a kid from his parents and his church (which taught him that and which reinforced it, I don’t really know and since the parents seem to agree with *everything* their church teaches them, without a lot of critical thought, YMMV, I wouldn’t find such a distinction very meaningful).
Fortunately for him *and* for me, his recovery from his early church and family teachings in this vein started when he moved away from home, attending college, volunteering with various Christian organizations, and noticing that the world was not the way that he was told that it was.
SCS
My big objection is when the parent brings around the order form. I will always order something from a kid, even if it’s something I don’t want (which I usually don’t). I remember being a girl scout and walking around the neighborhood selling cookies. I learned a lot doing the selling and the dreaded delivery. When Mom or Dad is doing all the work for the kid, the kid is missing out on great learning experiences. If all you want is money, then ask me for that and at least I’ll get a tax write off and won’t get more crap I don’t want. If you are trying to help your kids learn to present themselves, talk to adults, make a sales pitch, etc., then bring them into the office.
MelD
We’ve actually gotten a folder with checkboxes for each name to fill out when the form comes to you. I absolutely hate that. We had some fundraiser that was for something completely impractical for a single woman like me and I elected not to fill it in and hated having to check that I read it without actually donating it.
Ugh- “Posting comments too quickly” is out of control today.
Anon mom
As a mom, I always just contribute whatever the fundraising goal is and don’t even bother asking others. This year I bought $60 worth of candy bars and have been very popular at my office since I brought them in and gave them away to everyone.
North Shore
I do this, too. I just buy the stuff and then give it away as I can, to neighbors, as hostess gifts, to the office, whatever.
kim
Love that idea, thanks for the tip!
Legal Marketer
Agree that office fundraising is getting out of control, but kids fundraising in general is getting crazy also. Last night, around dinnertime, the doorbell rang. It was a boy who was probably 8-10. He mumbled “I’m selling popcorn, magazines and wrapping paper for a fundraiser” (or whatever his items were.)
We live in a nice neighborhood of about 40 homes – we all know each other and each others’ kids. This was not a neighborhood kid, and sure enough, out on the street is the mom, sitting in a idling minivan. I politely declined and told him to have a good evening and then watched as she drove him from driveway to driveway.
This irks me for several reasons. First of all, if you’re going to have your kids sell something, teach them the basics: eye contact, introduce themselves and the organization, etc. Second, don’t bring your kid to a neighborhood other than your own just because it looks like people who live there can afford to support his hobbies. Third, it was a beautiful evening and safe, small neighborhood – get out of the van at the end of the street and walk to each house with him!
eaopm3
I agree with you 100%. I am not a big fan of fundraising campaigns at schools, in general, but especially the door-to-door kind.
I wasn’t home the other evening, and my husband answered the door to a girl that was about 12 or 13 who told him she was raising money for either the Crisis Pregnancy Center or the Pregnancy Care Center (he couldn’t remember). We live in a *very* religious and conservative community (though we don’t much fit that profile) and when he asked her to explain what the donations were for, she told him that it was for women that need abortions but can’t afford them. I was positively shocked that any parent would send a young girl, alone, to knock on stranger’s doors and ask for donations for such a hot-button topic in our part of the country. I wish I had been the one at home when she knocked on our door – my husband was just bewildered and speechless.
SF Bay Associate
The “funny” part about the girl’s explanation is that Crisis Pregnancy Centers don’t offer abortions at all, but are deceptive about it. Regardless of how one feels about abortion, I would hope that we can all agree that women should not be misled or lied to when dealing with an unplanned pregnancy.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/06/opinion/crisis-pregnancy-centers-and-propaganda.html
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/14/nyregion/judge-blocks-law-requiring-disclosure-at-pregnancy-centers.html
zelda
crisis pregnancy centers do the opposite of providing abortions or funding for abortions, fyi! in fact they exist (and sometimes resemble medical facilities, provide sonograms, etc.) in order to convince women not to get abortions, and to provide resources about alternatives to abortion. a couple cities in the US right now (SF and NYC i believe?) are trying to outlaw these centers advertising themselves as medical facilities when they provide a different service.
http://motherjones.com/mojo/2011/09/san-francisco-takes-crisis-pregnancy-centers
K
there is also a history of problems with these centers lying to females about the conception date, encouraging them to wait weeks longer before deciding to terminate because they “have time” to think about it, and then when the person decides to terminate, they find out that oops, conception date was earlier than we’d thought, too late to terminate now!
regardless of one’s opinions on termination, a group who claim to be medical practitioners who intentionally lie and deceive their patients is simply not right.
anon
They also have a history of telling abused women that if they keep the baby it may “change” their abuser. They aren’t even ashamed of this practice. The HBO Documentary 12th & Delaware shows one crisis pregnancy center worker openly telling a pregnant woman this. Regardless of anyone’s feelings on abortion I think we can all agree that telling someone to have a baby in hopes of changing your abuser is deplorable. Keep the baby or not but don’t tell someone to stay with their abuser.
Lhd
There was a young girl in our community who went to one of theses places … They told her she would go to hell if she had an abortion but offered nothing else by way of support or referral. 6 months later she gave birth alone in her basement and the baby died. I watched the teen’s murder trial – the woman who provided this sage medical ‘advice’ (no doctors or nurses onsite) essentially testified that their goal was solely to prevent abortions, and that someone else should be responsible for whatever comes after. Not a place I’d send my money.
eaopm3
I was curious about that aspect, actually… I am planning to contact the local organization and let them know I thought it was inappropriate and unsafe for an unattended child to be fundraising for their cause.
Anon
Gee, that seems a little harsh! I have an 11 year old (with two older siblings) and even with coaching, some boys are just shy and uncomfortable in certain situations. I can definitely appreciate the fact that you wanted to pass on the $10 wrapping paper, but the rest of the post seemed a little snarky!
CSF
I think it’s just the notion that it’s rude to knock on people’s doors at dinner time. Just as it’s rude to troll neighborhoods you don’t live in for a fundraiser. It’s not the boy’s fault, it’s his parent’s.
Then again, I can starkly remember hating this as a child. It was a miserable experience, and I’m certain I never learned anything from it.
Anon 3L
Have you considered that maybe the child lives in a neighborhood where it is not safe to knock on people’s doors? Or perhaps, lives in a neighborhood where the neighbors are living on the margins and just can’t afford it? Or that the mother herself doesn’t know how to teach her son to be more effective in his fundraising, and that she’s honestly doing the best she can? Without more information, your posts about this smack of elitism.
Anon 3L
Whoops. meant this for Legal Marketer, and not directly to you, CSF.
Anonymous
My son’s middle school does not do any fundraisers. At the beginning of the year, they ask each parent to write a check for forty dollars! Love it love it love it!
Anonymous
My Grandma’s line was, “That’s not one of my charities.” (RIP Gram!)
I hate HATE being asked to donate so someone can travel to an exotic location (Africa, India) to do religious charity work for three weeks — especially supervisors asking subordinates. I’ve actually reported those things to HR!
CSF
Why would you report this to HR?
Anonymous
Supervisor requesting donations for questionable religious reasons from subordinates? Completely inappropriate, ethically wrong, and flat out sleazy.
K
yep… and when you work somewhere with a large enough staff and HR dept, this is the best way to handle this oftentimes. however when you work in a small place, it’s pretty impossible, unfortunately.
CSF
Really? How is requested that one donate to support someone going on a mission trip ethically wrong? I’ve received funding to go on several trips this way. Who wouldn’t support building orphanages in Puerto Rico, simply because it’s backed by a church?
Argie
I think its more of an issue with a Supervisor asking a Subordinate to donate – there couple be an implication of “if you don’t, there will be work repercussions”. That’s the ethical issue.
CSF
Perhaps. But I’d hate to work in the kind of environment where someone felt pressured to comply with out of office requests from supervisors. When I get requests from the partner to buy a coupon book, it’s always accompanied with a “You really don’t have to buy it, but if you want to, here’s the information.” And I think I approach everything the same way.
People should feel free to say “no thank you.” But I don’t think a diatribe on the organization or how they don’t agree with the charity chosen is appropriate.
ELS
@CSF I don’t support mission trips. I also don’t like the idea (across the board) of orphanages that are run by churches, partially because I spent a significant amount of time in a Latin American country and at one of said orphanages. The help that is given is very needed, and I’m glad someone is giving it. However, what I don’t like is the pressure that is put on the children to believe the way their sponsoring organization believes, even if it is completely contrary to their culture. Specifically, the orphanages/shelters I saw were built to support an indigenous tribe. Despite the fact that the tribe believed deeply in pantheism, they were pressured to say they were Christians so they could get the full benefit of the services offered.
So, I don’t give money unless I’m familiar with the organization doing the work. I’m not religious, and I don’t want my money going to spreading a doctrine that I don’t believe in. I also would not appreciate being asked to donate to a religious organization in my office, especially by a superior. Would you like it if I asked you to donate to one of my Atheists organizations?
Anonymous
Agree with ELS.
Short term mission trip also seem to be a sleazy way to get people to pay for an exotic holiday.
There are also usually very competent builders who could do the work and generate revenue for themselves to get out of poverty. There are also aid groups with real experience to do whatever needs doing, perhaps employing the locals.
“Who wouldn’t donate?” is a judgmental statement disguised as a question.
Anon
You are flat out crazy if you think a mission trip is an exotic holiday. I’ve never been on one that was even close to a vacation. Unless you also consider things like Doctors Without Borders to be an exotic holiday, or legal aid in New Orleans post-Katrina to be an exotic holiday.
CSF
I will respond specifically to this question: ” Would you like it if I asked you to donate to one of my Atheists organizations?”
I would not mind being asked to donate, and if it were to go towards a good cause (building orphanages, hospitals, etc.) then I would likely donate if I had the funding. If it were to go towards atheist proselytizing, then I would not. But I wouldn’t get upset about it.
And for the record, I have been asked by partners to donate to their choice political campaigns, their gay pride campaigns, and even had one partner present me with an “appropriate list of candidates to vote for, if I wanted to ensure the company was still around next year.”
My point is, I make my choice, am happy with that, and move on. We live in a society that is built of different people, and if you are offended by mission trips, that’s a sad thing. I don’t get offended by people who are different than I am, and I don’t judge, so I’d appreciate it if I weren’t judged in return.
ELS
First, I’m not offended by mission trips, nor am I “judging” those that go on them. I just disagree with them in principle, and think that the issue of asking has the potential to be divisive at work. Secondly, I find it pretty funny that while you claim not to judge those who disagree with you, your comment that being offended would be “sad” is, in fact, pretty judgmental. For the record, I don’t think it’s really all that surprising that an atheist would be offended to be asked to donate to a trip that, even if it supports an orphanage, also most likely tells children about Jesus, and how if you don’t believe in him you’re going to hell. As one of the supposedly hell-bound, I don’t see how I shouldn’t be offended.
And also for the record: my feeling on this subject isn’t confined to religion (or lack thereof). I think fundraising and political campaigning don’t really have a place in most office environments. It either creates division based on differences in ideology, or creates pressure to donate to every cause that I don’t feel should be present when I’m at work.
CSF
To clarify–I think it’s sad that anyone gets offended to be asked to donate to a cause, no matter what that cause is. Stop looking for things in my post that are judgy, because it’s just not that way.
And I’ve never said you were “hell-bound” to use your words. So, please don’t push that on me either.
I personally don’t have a problem with people soliciting for donations in the workplace, regardless of what the cause is for, if that is allowed. If you don’t agree, decline, and move on, I do think it’s ridiculous to get all worked up simply because you don’t agree with someone and report them to HR.
Anonymous
I’ve seen photos from the “mission” trips, and I’m calling BS.
Again, it’s smarter and more ethical to hire local agencies than waste money on airfare, food, lodgings, etc.
Not to mention the pressure to join Team Jesus.
CSF, please let me buy you a drink when we meet in hell. I’ll be rather close to the front.
Anon
Wow Anonymous, you’re a b*tch aren’t you? Your elitism isn’t attractive, funny, or witty.
Anonymous
Ug, too early. Invite was for ELS, but CSF please feel free to join should you find yourself among the flames. I’ll buy the first round.
ELS
@Anonymous – I’d be glad to share a drink with ya in hell.
@CSF Listen. I didn’t say that you specifically said I was “hell-bound.” But I’ve been on mission trips in high school, and I know many who have been. Regardless of the good that’s done, there’s also the pressure, as Anon said, to join “Team Jesus.” And part of that? Is the implication or flat-out telling that you’re going to hell if you don’t join. That’s kind of the definition of a “mission” trip. You may be trying to do good works, but you’re also trying to convert someone. And really? In what universe is calling something “sad” not a judgment?
I’m glad to agree to disagree on this. I don’t know you, and I really think that despite getting off to the wrong foot on this, you, me, and Anon would really enjoy these drinks we’re talking about.
Anonymous
@Anon: Flat-out, screeching, unholy bitch. I’ve absolutely earned the right and you’re free to disagree with me and dislike me.
Religion and politics always generate extreme reactions which is why so many boards, and civilized people, avoid the topics.
Anonymous
@Anon:
Well argued discussions without name calling are important, but yes, I am Flat-out, screeching, unholy b1tch. I’ve absolutely earned the right and you’re free to disagree with me and dislike me. Or we can agree to disagree.
Religion and politics always generate extreme reactions which is why so many boards, and civilized people, avoid the topics.
Nonny
What’s with the two comments about Boy Scouts being homophobic and about bigotry and inequality? Granted I don’t live in the US, but I am pretty familiar with Girl Guides/Girl Scouts and with Boy Scouts, and this is the first accusation I have ever heard that Boy Scouts is homophobic. Frankly, I am pretty shocked at this assertion.
Em
In the past (and I assume still), they have not allowed gay men to be troop leaders.
eaopm3
Check out Boy Scouts of American v. Dale. I’m pretty sure that’s where the notion came from, but it may have started before that case.
eaopm3
Ugh – Boy Scouts of America – Not American
MissJackson
Google the Supreme Court Case “Boy Scouts v. Dale” and prepare yourself for some disheartening reading.
Nonny
Hm. Interesting. Haven’t read the full decision but I am appalled by the decision, particularly since the founding principles of Scouting don’t say anything about sexual orientation. From what I’ve read so far, I think the dissenting opinion is more accurate.
I wonder if the Boy Scouts USA membership has dropped or increased since this ruling? Now that would be an interesting question.
another anon
The Boy Scouts also exclude athiests.
The Girl Scouts, on the other hand, are not affiliated in any way with the Boy Scouts, and don’t have the same discriminatory policies.
MeliaraofTlanth
And also have way better fundraising food;-) (sorry, boy scouts, your popcorn just can’t compare to cookies).
anon
My son is a cub scout in Berkeley. I am a complete liberal and was really hesitant to let him join. But Berkeley being Berkeley, they don’t really follow the national rules. Our past troop leader was a Jew (I think the national policy is Christian only) and our new troop leader is a lesbian. I love Berkeley!
But don’t worry, I’m not bringing my son’s popcorn order form to the office. :) I did bring my daughter’s Girl Scout cookie form in, but I left it on my desk, and I believe all the people who ordered cookies were pretty excited to have a source for Thin Mints.
Accountress
Thin Mints are the BEST! A senior manager’s daughter is a Girl Scout, and I’m the first person in her office asking for the sheet when it’s cookie-season.
Jas
Ugh, yes. Our office manager goes around doing fundraising for his son’s youth group. I can’t remember the name, but I looked it up and it’s basically a more-religous Boy Scouts with a focus on “teaching boys to be men” and other gendered bullsh!t I am strongly against. I wish he’d at least just leave the sign-up sheet out somewhere so I could ignore it instead of having to turn him down to his face.
Anonymous
My company has a policy prohibiting active solicitations in the workplace. It’s ok to post a note on your cubicle or office door, and those interested can participate. Talk to HR and suggest this approach — it’s a clear conflict of interest for supervisors to solicit subordinates for anything.
AN
Wish my workplace had this.
Colleague hands me list and says “ok, five bucks pls”. Guess hoe that makes me feel?
CSF
I think this is a brilliant way to do things. That way, people can get their fundraising in, without offending anyone else. Also would cut down on the pressure to purchase.
Vivian
Does anyone here know what the proper protocol for bringing food is to Jewish people for BREAK-FAST?
I have been invited, and would want to bring a cheesecake, but it would have to be refrigerated, and I do not want to come to early with a cheesecake that needs refrigeration.
meme
Oh hi Ellen.
another anon
Do you know how religious they are? And whether they keep kosher or to what extent? If they are very strict about keeping kosher (e.g., separate dishes for meat and dairy), there is not going to be much you can bring that they will eat. What about bringing a small hostess gift instead, like a potted plant or something along those lines?
SAlit-a-gator
I think Vivian is refering to the Jewish custom of fasting for Yom Kippur (this weekend) and then celebrating with friends and family afterwards (called breaking the fast).
Houda
If they are sephardic or originally from North Africa then they wil be celebrating Mimouna (at the end of pessah).
The tradition in Morocco is that, when muslims go visit their jewish neighbours for mimouna they bring sweets, dates (dried fruit from palm trees), apples, and maybe a little gift for the smallest kids in the family who would be celebrating their first mimouna.
Usually, it’s the jewish family that hosts a lavish meal so no need to bring food, but a nice gift for the smallest children or the hostess is always welcome.
Houda
And I just realized that the discussion was about yom hakkipurim (sorry). for that, I have no advice… never been to one.
Missy
Bring fruit. It can be served with meat or dairy, it doesn’t have to be purchased in a special kosher incarnation, it doesn’t need to be refrigerated (or can be stored in a cooler for the day), it is good to eat after fasting, and you can slice it up when you arrive. Safest option I know.
1L-1
Excellent suggestion! (Speaking as an orthodox Jew.)
Lyssa
My assistant just came by my office to drop off some papers, and said “I’m ready to go home!” (Small, laid back office, and we often close early on Fridays.) Then she said “Oh, I hope you don’t think bad of me because I always want to go home on Fridays.”
No, no honey! I just think you’re normal!
Equity's Darling
I know many corporettes have raved about their filofax agendas- and it’s nearing the end of the year, so I plan to order next year’s agenda in November, thus research begins now.
I want to invest in a nice cover that I can replace the inside pages every year for many years to come- I just finished school in May, so this is the first “grown-up” agenda that I’ll be getting. I usually just picked up a moleskin one when I was in school (I love the paper, it’s so thick).
What size do you all get for filofax? I want enough space for some detail (probably one page for a week would be ideal), and I want to be able to carry it in a medium sized purse.
Or are there any other brands that people like?
Ann
Franklin Covey.
Anon
check out philofaxy.com and the associated flickr group. then come back to reality :)
the most common size is personal. try to see the binders in person before you make a choice if you at all can.
K
1st: ALL NYCers, please join our Corporette FB group! http://www.facebook.com/groups/269707296396538/
Also, I’d love to hear thoughts on people whose law degrees are joint degrees… for example, business and law or social work and law.
Anon
Is there any way to view the group without joining? I’ve quit facebook and don’t plan to rejoin but would still like to be able to read the group.
K
I think it’s open? I made everything as public as the settings will allow :)
The Bad Wife
Can’t view it without loggin into Facebook!
GovtMom
Would love advice or words of comfort for a friend and mentee of mine. She failed the bar yesterday. She’s devastated, humiliated and just plain upset. She does have a job (in my agency) and did tell her supervisor about it. Our agency is super-cool about it, she’s not about to lose her job and will have another one or two chances. Can anyone who’s been there offer her some kind words, been-there advice, etc? The bar was over a decade ago for me, but boy, I still cringe from memories of that time.
Alex
I can’t give any advice from personal experience, but I have a friend that failed multiple times. It was hard for her, but she just kept at it. She finally passed and is now in practice for herself (after holding various other jobs). The fact that she can keep working is helpful. While trying to pass, my friend found work as a law clerk with firms and lawyers where she had personal connections to keep her experience up. It was rough, there is no denying it, but she made it and is now very happy.
Anonymous
My husband and I were in the same law school class and took the bar at the same time. We got the results back a week before our wedding. I passed, he didn’t. He dealt with it well, was happy for me, and came to watch me get sworn in. He took it the next round and passed. Numerous years later, and after working in a couple different firms, he started his own, has ten people working for him, and makes three times the amount I do. And nobody ever has asked him if he passed the bar the first time!
work-in-progress
A former governor of my state failed a few times. He’s doing pretty well for himself now.
Rawr
This is my worst nightmare. My mom actually just asked me what I wanted her to do if I failed the bar (results coming next week and I am so so so not ready). I told her that I would like her simply to say “I know you worked hard and that SUCKS,” and take me out for a drink (or 4).
That’s it. No “Oh you’ll do better next time!” or “But you’re so smart! I don’t understand!” Just “that sucks” and booze. Maybe that’s just me.
Seattleite
Hillary Clinton failed the DC bar. She went on to do okay for herself…
Rawr
For some reasons, those stories of “oh so and so famous failed like 8 times and is now amazing and great and has an awesome life,” I find to be really unhelpful. I’m sure you didn’t mean it to be, but I find it really abrasive and I can’t pinpoint why. This isn’t meant to be rude, but I just don’t know if that would be the best thing to say to someone who just failed.
work-in-progress
Interesting perspective. I always think of it as proof your professional life is not over–which is the thought I think a lot of people have about the bar. Maybe this is one of those situations where the only appropriate thing to say is “I’m sorry.”
Rawr
I think it would be something I would want to hear like a month down the road, or whenever I’d be gearing up to take the Feb. bar. Like “yeah, you can do it! Don’t give up!” But if I just failed, I think “I’m sorry”/”That sucks” would be exactly what I wanted to hear.
Miriam
I think when people fail the bar, they consider it to be some sort of statement that they are not good enough, smart enough, etc. It isn’t just oh, I failed the bar, I’ll take it again. It’s “I failed because I am not as good as those who passed. I never should have gone to law school. I’ll never make it as a lawyer. I’m just not good enough.” Knowing that these undeniably successful, smart, respected people have been in their shoes could make them feel better about failing and that it says nothing about who they are.
Kanye East
I would have taken “JFK Jr. failed the New York bar exam THREE times!” over the pre-exam words of supposed comfort, “Don’t worry, my uncle’s an IDIOT and he passed the bar,” any day.
Seattleite
I understand your point, but the there-there-pat-pat-pats really do come best from people whom one knows personally. I actually intended my comment to be absorbed later, after the first shock and disappointment had worn off.
And I’ve always appreciated hearing about how really successful people also had setbacks but powered through. Maybe it’s my own perfectionist tendencies, but if not sufficiently checked, my imagination allows me to believe that certain successful people always got straight As, never got dumped and spent three days in bed eating ice cream, scored in the top 10% of every test they ever took, and always have a $XXX cushion in their checking accounts. Oh, and their bathroom sinks? Naturally hair- and toothpaste-splatter-free.
Annie
Actually, I failed the first time and someone told me HRC failed the DC bar and I found it encouraging.
EC MD
There must be some list of really famous lawyers who failed the bar the first time around…maybe that would help?
One of my good friends failed the surgery boards the first time he took it. It is an oral exam, so half of retaking it is making sure that you don’t convey a lack of confidence or get locked up in your own brain. He just passed it this week.
She needs to take some time away, take a real break from it, and then come back and assess what went wrong (lack of preparation, anxiety, etc). What can you do? Help her with that stuff, and reinforce that you don’t see her any differently for this bump in the road.
Retaker
I failed the first time. I sulked for a few days, figured out where I went wrong, and did fine the second time. I did not fail the bar by much the first time and just needed to remind myself if I started panicking that I really needed to do just slightly better on the second attempt than I did on the first. One of my problems (and I know I wasn’t alone in this) was back pain so severe I could not stay in the seat for more than 90 minutes after the first morning, so I really made sure to maintain good posture throughout and kept some meds in my car to take during lunch if necessary. I think that really helped me a lot.
Annie
A friend of a friend who just failed was just referred to me (I failed the first try). Excerpt from the email I sent her:
I am so sorry you have to go through this. It sucks. Period. Sucks. One test does not define you no matter how much it feels that way now. Friends and family will continue to love you for who you are not for any professional accreditation. Other people you know failed too. Maybe not your best friend but other smart capable people. Take today and the weekend to cry and eat cupcakes and call friends and family and order out and watch movies and jog or whatever is not thinking about the test every possible second. Don’t focus on the next step till you have a second to stop and remind yourself to breathe.
Once she regroups she may find it helpful to develop a game plan moving forward with you support.
Annie
arg. your.
Rawr
That is the exact email I would want to get. I’m am saving this.
E
I know quite a few people who failed, and several years out, all of them were successful and happy. I think this is the most important thing you can tell your mentee.
Ekaterin Nile
One of my best friends in law school failed the bar exam in our state (which has a 90% pass rate). She panicked on the MPT and never recovered. BUT she picked herself up, studied for the next time, and passed. Now, five years out of law school, she’s in-house at a major medical device company, has five attorneys reporting to her, and is doing very well. It usually turns out Just Fine.
Also, it could be worse. I know someone who thought she had passed the bar exam from looking on the Internet but actually had her bar exam number wrong (don’t ask me how). So she posted on Facebook that she passed and stayed at her boyfriend’s house for about four days. When she returned home and got her mail, she discovered that she had failed the bar exam. Talk about humiliating!!!
Gracie
I sat for two state exams my first time around. Passed one and then two weeks later found out I failed the exam by one point, in the jurisdiction that my job required me to practice in. I. was. devastated. For a second I didn’t think I would survive the disappointment and humiliation. (Totally irrational).
After sulking for a weekend I took a couple weeks to figure out a concrete plan for the second time around. I spoke with my employer, different bar review companies, and came up with a reasonable plan. Sometime along the way I realized that my worst nightmare had come true, I failed, but that I was still standing and my world did not collapse. I was fortunate enough to take a three week leave from work leading up to the bar and took a “repeat taker” review class on the weekends. I was pretty laid back about the whole thing.
When I left the test there was no doubt in my mind that I passed. I think just having the stress of failing past me, made it easier to pass.
Now, years later, I almost forget that I failed. It’s not until other people talk about failing that I remember. It’s a tough test, people have off days. Your friend will survive, and will likely be a better person for the perspective that failing will give her.
Bonnie
Mark your calendars for the first DC Corporette get-together: October 18, at 6:30 on the second floor of DC Chop House. If you want a reminder email or have questions, email me at dccorporette at yahoo dot com
Anon]
Will ELLEN be THERE? :)
Bonnie
If ELLEN comes, I’ll pay for her first drink.
Formerly Preggo Angie
Make sure the drink is GOODE – wouldn’t want her to taste it and say “FOOEY!”
AnonInfinity
Maybe she’ll bring the manageing partner and HE can buy the REST of her drinks.
Vivian
Ellen is having boyfriend problems. Evidently, Alan made another play for her and in a moment of weakness, I think she agreed to go back with him. She is very embarrassed, especially since he is still drinking. I think she needs some time to reassess her options.
Ann
No! We will all have to endure his BAD BREATH.
MelD
The problem is that Ellen is getting OLD. If she does not get MARRIED NOW, she will spend the REST of her LIFE as a SPINSTER. At this stage, she just needs to ENDURE the drinking and the bad breath.
Anon
THIS is why I LOVE Corporette and the WEEKEND THREAD!!! :)
Another Sarah
Wahoo!!!
anon
I’m in a funk, it’s totally situational and will be over in a few months, at least for a while, but I need to do something fun and happy this weekend. I’m in Southern Virginia, but don’t mind driving a bit. DH is on board for whatever. Any suggestions? He suggested DC for shopping/ good eats but it’s a long way for a day trip and getting a room seems like a waste of money since we would likely head back by lunchtime Sunday anyway. We are trying to stick to a self imposed budget but everything we come up with isexpensive or involves camping/hiking/etc., the later of which I do NOT enjoy.
Fiona
Perhaps a day of wine tasting in the Shenandoah Valley? Or a beach & BBQ trip to OBX?
My ten-year-old self also wants to suggest Busch Gardens. :)
Rawr
Go to Lexington, VA for the day! Beautiful little town. Poke around W&L and VMI’s campus, maybe go to the corn maze or Safari Park in Natural Bridge, take a carriage ride, do a little shopping in the adorable downtown, get a great dinner at Bistro or Southern Inn, take a ghost tour (there’s a greatt little visitor center with more ideas that I’m sure I’m leaving off).
Mondette
This.
Also, the state fair is going on this weekend just outside of Richmond, and there are corn mazes all over the state right now. I think it might be a little late for apple picking, but I bet pumpkin patches are perfect right now.
MeliaraofTlanth
Southern state fairs! They’re the best (says my Georgia self). Really, anywhere you can buy fried candy bars is a happy place.
anon
You should make the trip to Minnesota the week and a half before Labor day for our State Fair – there are new “foods on a stick” every year and new deep fried delicacy every year too. And, I want to say its one of the biggest State Fairs in the country.
/end State Brag
lyla
DEFINITELY Lexington. Spent three wonderful years there!
DC
I second Busch Gardens. A whole lot of fun and will take your mind off everything!
AnoninDC
There are tons of beautiful wineries in Virginia and some great B&B’s that aren’t expensive. Most of them run discounts for last minute bookings too. Lots of them are in quaint little towns, so you can sleep in, eat delicious breakfast, walk around the little town and shops, and go to some wine tastings! It’s one of my favorite things to do for a quick night away when you just need a little refresher but don’t want to spend a ton of money on a real vacation.
Anon
I heartily recommend wine tasting in the region! Or if you’re looking for something more active, how about a hike somewhere? Near Charlottesville there are numerous locations — I particularly love horseshoe falls — but maybe there are places closer to you? Or if you just want a good day/good eats, head to Charlottesville… it’s probably 2 hours closer to you than DC, and there are fun boutiques and shops, and great restaurants.
Former Cav
I second a trip to the wineries… as a former Virginian, I recommend the wineries in the Albemarle/Nelson county area: Pippin Hill Farm, King Family, Veritas and Pollak are among the most popular and personal favorites. They each have beautiful views and areas to just relax and enjoy the weekend. There are also a number of B&Bs in the area (or Charlottesville, about 15-20 min east).
If you opt for the Shenandoah Valley, I recommend Barren Ridge Vineyards/Winery near Waynesboro… they just won best in show in the VA State Fair for their meritage.
And now I’m going to go have a glass of wine :)
AnoninDC
Happy weekend everyone…long weekend for some!
I have to recommend a particular dress, on sale at Macys dot com right now for $32! I’m hesitant to include the link, so if you search on their site for “Charter Club Dress, Short Sleeve Scoopneck Belted Sheath” you should find it. I ordered two earlier this week (raspberry and black). They came in today, and they are awesome! Great fit for an hourglass figure, especially with a larger bust. It’s rare to find a great dress that skims the boobs and hips rather then clinging to them, and this one does just that! Anyway, just wanted to share my excitement and my good deal – hopefully someone else can take advantage!
A
Just ordered it. Thanks!
Samantha
Love it! But they dont have raspberry in my size, and I have too many black dresses.
Anon
Lucky sizes 12 and 14 left.
Wrinkled
Has anyone had any luck with purchasing and using a steamer? I hate ironing and I’ve heard wonders about steaming clothes instead of ironing.
Pebbles
LOVE LOVE LOVE my steamer. I too hate ironing, and steaming is so quick and easy. I have a $50ish Conair from Target. I would suggest getting one with a built in rod for hanging clothes while you steam them, and also an auto-shut-off (mine does not have this, and it’s a wonder I haven’t burned the house down b/c I always forget to shut it off).
stc
I love my steamer. Got it form christmas one year, use it nearly every day. It’s so easy, although the noise scares my dog.
Esquirette
Steaming is the bomb. I hate ironing with the burning passion of a thousand fiery suns. Plus, I’m terrible at it. I have a travel steamer and a free standing one. I would be a very unhappy Corporette with out them.
Snarky
Have to agree with everyone else… I LOOOOVE my steamer. I got a conair one from Bed Bath and Beyond – use the coupon that’s ALWAYS in the mail and it was a good deal!! It takes seconds to steam a shirt as opposed to minutes.
Herbie
Love my steamer! Cuts down on my time getting ready in the a.m. (or prepping clothes the night before), not as hard on fabrics as an iron. I use it every single day. Get one; you won’t regret it.
SoCal.Esq.
My Rowenta steam control steamer has revolutionized my life. The only issue is storage. It’s not small, and even though it’s got some design features meant to make it smaller for storing purposes there’s no minimizing it’s bulky tank. But despite it’s size it’s not heavy and it’s easy to roll and move around, and it emits a nice big cloud of steam that takes all wrinkles out in seconds. I use mine at least once a week. Highly recommend it.
IDreamofLawSchool
So I’m not quite sure if this has ever been discussed on this site, I know most of the readers are already professionals, but I know some pre-professionals who read this blog too! Anyways, I’m currently applying to law schools (I work at a law firm now as a legal assistant) and I am hearing “DON’T GO TO LAW SCHOOL” all over the place. The thing is, I know I want to be a lawyer. I know the amount of work it entails, and I know how difficult law school is. I’m not approaching this as never seeing the profession before.
Anyways, I’d basically love some advice from some current female attorneys out there. What are your thoughts on going through law school right now/in this economy? It’s difficult to hear so many people advise against it, but still feel like its the right thing I should be doing. I think I’d like to work in BigLaw, but I’m concerned about the amount of jobs that are out there after Law School. (Obviously I’m open to many types of positions, I’m not sure what area I will specialize in yet).
Thank you for your help
Anonymous
Frankly, given this economy, I tend to not think very highly of anyone who goes to law school unless they are independently wealthy. I am an attorney and I love my job but I did go to school long before the downturn. Part of being a lawyer is having good judgment. Deciding to take on massive amounts of debt without any good reason to believe you will be able to pay it off is not good judgment.
IDreamofLawSchool
I agree with you. However – this just helps re-enforce to choose the school that gives me scholarships. I don’t want to sit around waiting for the economy to get better. Hopefully I will be able to pay it off. But I will keep your advice in mind, thank you.
CFM
Do you mind my asking what your applications are like? Are you applying to t-14 schools? What kind of schools are you looking at
IDreamofLawSchool
Hi CFM! My applications are around the 86% percentile. That being said, me getting into a T-14 school would be a reach. I might be able to get in, but there’s no guarantee I would get a scholarship there. Of course I can’ t really decide anything until I get acceptance/waitlist/etc. (GPA 3.5/LSAT 162, extra cirricular & full time law office/paralegal experience for 1 and 1/2 years) I’ve taken the LSAT twice, and I can tell you I’m sure not taking it again! ha.
Most people have said well if you aren’t going to go to a T-14, don’t bother going to law school right now. Just not worth it. I just feel like sitting around waiting working as a paralegal is not where I want to be. I understand that I will acquire debt, but if its what I want to do – and I know I will be good at it… why not if I can find a school that gives me a reasonable scholarship and I can make it in the top 10%… (thats the plan at least..)
IDreamofLawSchool
Sorry and I’m looking at :
Northwestern
UT Austin
BU
George Washington
UVA
USD
Davis
Hastings
UCI
Notre Dame
WUSTL
Any suggestions?
hastings class of 2008
Unless you get a full ride, I would not go to a school out of the T14 unless it has a VERY strong regional reputation and you plan on staying in that region. And given your GPA and LSAT, I dont know if you can even get into a T14, frankly.
I had better than your GPA and had your LSAT. I got into Davis and Hastings, and not into any T20. I went to Hastings, class of 2008, and frankly I do not know why you would go there. What you may not realize about the UCs is that CA is basically refusing to fund higher education. Tuition went up EVERY year that I was there. I had saved up for 2 years for living expenses, and only took out loans for tuition: 68k on graduation. Hastings is, for 2011, 37k a year. I bet the rest of my loans it will go up another 5k next year, and another 5k the year after that, at the very least. CA is *broke.*
The San Francisco market is also flush with Stanford and Boalt grads, plus all of the Ivies because everyone wants to live in San Francisco, so the market is fiercely competitive. Same deal in LA, with UCLA and USC. By the skin of my networking teeth, I got a biglaw job. Many people in my class of 2008 still do not have full time employment as an attorney. I can think of a dozen of my class of 500 that have given up on practicing entirely. The numbers of non-atty-full-time and given-up are probably triple that for the classes of 2009 and 2010.
Davis has a strong regional pull in Sac, and almost no pull elsewhere. My coworker went there and said almost no firms come to OCI.
If “USD” is University of San Diego, I have no idea why you would go there unless you plan to practice in San Diego, and only San Diego. VERY strong regional pull (SD firms actually prefer local grads to even T14), no pull anywhere else. Also, expensive.
You also seem to be willing to pay out of state tuition, given that you’re looking at the UCs and UT and UVA. Think very carefully about volunteering to pay the non-resident student premium. At the UC’s, that’s currently another $8.5k , on top of the $37k tuition. Those are also among the first fees to go up when the budget gets slashed further.
You could point to me and say, “See, we’re the same. She got that biglaw job, I can too.” To that I would say, I was LUCKY. Like me, lots of my friends worked their tails off too, but didn’t get those biglaw jobs. I just so happened to meet someone who ended up helping me land a job. Meanwhile, some friends are doing doc review for $40 an hour. How much money do you want to bet on how lucky you are? How much more lucky or special do you think you are than the other graduates your year? I’m sorry to be so harsh, but think very, very carefully, and be honest with yourself.
IDreamofLawSchool
I appreciate your honesty. These are all factors that I do need to take into consideration. I am a San Diego resident, so I wouldn’t mind living and practicing here. As far as out of state tuition goes, I might defer a year, move to the state that I will be going to law school, so I could get in-state tuition. These are all options that I will have to weigh once I get my responses back from schools.
I guess I can’t bet money on being lucky and special, but I do know that this is something I’ve wanted for a long time, and while it will be tough and cost me a lot of money, I can’t imagine doing anything else.
Hook Em
Unless you’re an URM, you’ll have a hard time getting into UT (right now tied with G’town). But if you do get in, I would highly recommend going. Most of the major markets (NY, CA, IL) will hire UT grads, and the Texas market (which is huge – Houston, Dallas, San Antonio, Austin) will sometimes ONLY hire UT grads. But as hastings said, paying out-of-state tuition is ridiculous and painful, and is clearly meant to fleece out-of-staters in order to subsidize in-staters. If you do well at UT though, they will often give you in-state as a 2L as a substitute for a scholarship.
Rawr
I’d throw W&L on there. Although not my alma mater, I visited a friend there a year back (hence my post extolling Lexington above), and she seemed so happy. It’s small and beautiful and the people are friendly, not those crazy competitive people you hear about in bad law school movies. She had no trouble getting a BigLaw job out of there (but she was LR and probs top 10%, so take that for what it’s worth).
CFM
I have thought about how to write this without sounding harsh but… you haven’t been in the top 10%. You sounds like a really hard worker, and I don’t doubt you would be a good law school. But you will most likely not get into a t-14. (unless you were at a great undergrad) I would not go into law school with your plan to be in the top 10% if that’s the only way it works. Ask yourself if you want to be a lawyer if you don’t make big law, and are an attorney with all the debt but with a much lower salary
Anon
In case it’s helpful for setting expectations, I got waitlisted at BU with the following stats: 3.7 UGPA, 164 LSAT, Ph.D. in a hard science with many publications in peer-reviewed journals, and 2 years of experience working in a large law firm. It’s tough out there! You should definitely apply to schools that are a reach, but it was generally helpful to me to have some guideposts to work with when I was applying to schools. Good luck!
Rawr
I picked a law school ranked slightly out of the T14 that gave me a full ride over a couple T14s that gave me zilch. I am employed in a lowpaying job that I adore and am pretty much debt free. I think that so long as you don’t assume that you’ll def get a BigLaw job and make decisions that reflect the reality of today’s financial setting, law school is a great idea.
Good luck!
IDreamofLawSchool
This is great advice, thank you. I am going to see where I get $ and base my decision off of that. I have been out of college for three years working so I have been able to save up money for living expenses through law school at least.
A
Make sure to appeal all of your financial aid decisions too. It doesn’t hurt and you might get more $
West Coast 3L
For what it’s worth, Boyd (Las Vegas) generally gives full rides to applicants with LSATs over 160, at least when I applied. Good professors, great writing program, but very regional.
A
Oh, also I picked a school ranked below the one T-14 law school I got into b/c I liked the school better and wanted to live in that city and I haven’t regretted it for a second. Not that that will work for everyone, but personally I loved my school, loved the city and was really happy. I got a job I like and don’t feel like I would be at all better off having gone to the higher ranked school.
Recently Downgraded
My advice to hopeful law applicants is not to not go or sit around waiting, but to get some experience in an industry you would like to serve as an attorney. If you are interested in employment law, go work in HR for a while; if medical malpractice or other PI, then a healthcare setting. Paralegal experience is a huge benefit for first semester research and citation skills and may appeal to government employers, but the private sector may not care if you know how to do a staff job because you can’t bill for it if a paralegal or secretary could do it. If you can effectively market to a target industry because you know it from the inside, that will help you stand out in a tough job market. You may also consider an evening program if available in your area so you can keep your job. It’s tough when you want to be a lawyer for the right reasons but have to wade through thousands of unemployed graduates who went for the wrong reasons.
AnonInfinity
I just barely started my life as an attorney, so take that for what it’s worth.
I knew I wanted to be a lawyer, not because I’d “always wanted to be one,” but because I had real, thought-out reasons as to why it would be a great career for me. So, I went to a law school that gave me a full scholarship. There were people from my past who I had not spoken to in years who contacted me to tell me that I was making a huge mistake and to get out ASAP. Multiple people did this. People all over the place were telling me I was making a mistake. I ended up graduating and finding a job, no problem. I’m in a smaller market, so it’s not like I have a NYC BigLaw job, but I’m in one of the biggest firms in my state. I know I haven’t been at it for long, but I can’t imagine being happier in a job.
My point is, if you know that you want to be a lawyer (which it seems like you do), then go for it. This seems to be something you’ve really thought about. If you’re going into it with open eyes and knowing that you are absolutely not guaranteed a job at the end, then it’s just another step toward a career that you want. I think it’s silly to go to law school to avoid getting out in the real world or “because you can do so many things with a JD.” But if you want to be a lawyer, there’s no other way.
AnonInfinity
By the way, I shouldn’t have said “no problem” when talking about finding a job. I had excellent grades and networked like it was my job while I was in law school. Most of my classmates did not find jobs. It is a really rough market out there, so just be very aware of that.
Rawr
AnonInfinity, I think we have the same life. What did you call yourself pre-bar results? I’ve heard “baby lawyer” (ugh hate) and “attorney in waiting” (from my good old boy of a boss). I need to pick something because, fingers crossed, I will only be it for one more week.
AnonInfinity
I just called myself an associate, and that’s how everyone at my firm introduced me to new people. The “first name on the door” would actually introduce me as “the newest lawyer in our firm,” so I figured it was ok to just call myself associate.
I also hate the term “baby lawyer.” Though I’m okay with “baby shark.” Because that’s what I am.
AnonInfinity
And, I agree. We are eerily similar. The only difference is that I know I won’t be on tv in a few days ;)
Rawr
Ah, see, not a firm lawyer, so good ole fashioned associate won’t work for me. Perhaps we aren’t the same! I do adore “baby shark,” although I don’t know if it applies to prosecutors. I’m going to arbitrarily decide that it does.
CC
You guys are calling yourself attorneys without passing the bar?
Rawr
CC- That’s exactly the point. We don’t (or didn’t in AnonInfinity’s case) know what to call ourselves when we are in lawyer roles but without full lawyer duties pre-bar-results. I certainly am not holding myself out as a lawyer. I mean, to other lawyers it easy enough to say “Oh I’m awaiting my results,” but I was looking for something easier to give to lay people that I interact with.
CC
You say that to lay people too.. My “baby sharks” are clerks until they pass
AnonInfinity
CC — I never called myself an attorney before I passed the bar, though some people I worked with did. If the situation was appropriate, I’d usually say something like, “Hopefully!” or “We’ll find out next week!” I only had to deal with it for 2 weeks because my state publishes bar results very early. I had to make a few phone calls while I was waiting to people outside the local law community, and I’d just say “I work with X at Y firm.”
IDreamofLawSchool
This made my day. Thank you.
JJ
Honestly, I think you’re the exception that proves the rule – you’re the one type of person that I would not tell “Don’t go to law school!” I graduated from a T14 law school one year before the crash and (happily) work in BigLaw, so I am extremely lucky.
You sound like me – I *knew* I wanted to be a lawyer, I wanted to be partner one day, and I still love my job. Does having student loan debt suck? Of course. But I have always wanted to be a lawyer and I worked myself through college at a law firm, so I was going in to law school actually knowing what the practice of law is like. Long story short: If you’re going in and know what to expect and know how difficult this road is to hoe, but still want to be a lawyer – go for it.
IDreamofLawSchool
JJ – I love being the exception!!!!!
The only concern is – I don’t think I will be able to get into a T-14 school. I KNOW I want to be a lawyer though. People have been saying go T-14 or don’t go at all… that’s kind of where my concerns are right now.
JJ
I think (in my opinion) t14 is fairly overrated once you get out of New York and D.C. I saw your list above of law schools and it basically boils down to: where do you want to practice and who gives you the most money/scholarships?
I knew I wanted to practice in a certain state, so I chose a law school (a state school that happens to be in the T14) in that state because getting a job would be markedly easier. There’s a private law school in my city that is probably top 50 (I don’t pay as much attention to rankings now that I’m practicing) that plenty of lawyers have graduated from and become extremely successful. If I were you, I’d weigh where you ultimately end up, versus where you get the most for your money, versus rankings. And then just work your butt off for three years.
IDreamofLawSchool
I agree. I think that if I go to a lower ranked school, I need to be top of my class & network like crazy!
Herbie
IDreamofLawSchool – you can totally go to a lower ranked school, as long as you don’t take out loans for it.
kng
i agree, you’re the one person i would not discourage from going to law school. I got into several T14s, but got significant scholarships at lower ranked schools. I ended up going to one of the lowest ranked schools I got into because I loved the ambiance and they gave me a great great scholarship (side note, I ended up losing that scholarship as a 2L for academic reasons, but I used my summer associate $ and some family loans, and graduated debt-free).
I got a biglaw job in NYC right before the crash. I think I did fine, my grades were less than stellar, but between all of my internships, law review, moot court, and other activities firms thought i was worth the risk and i am very happy with where i ended up. i was told repeatedly in very nasty ways that i should not go to law school (including by family members who were law students at the time). i dont regret it because it was right for me, but i do generally dissuade people because i think a law degree (for many people) is more effort, financial struggle, and not enough pay off for what it is. if you go in knowing all of those and bust your butt and hustle a bit, it’s probably worth it for you. in the end, it’s a personal endeavor and you should be the sole decision maker. best of luck to you :)
IDreamofLawSchool
The vibe I get is that if you are aware of the risks, and dedicate three years of your life to working and studying your butt off, networking the heck out of your school/town and going out of your way to make connections you are going to do well.
If you are unaware of the risks associated, and blind to the large amounts of money you will need to spend, as well as treat it like just an extended college, you aren’t going to do well.
So you would suggest a school out of the T-14 then?
Rawr
Depends. Questions to ask yourself:
-must I work in NYC/DC/whatever or will I be happy in a smaller market?
-must I work in BigLaw?
-are they giving me enough money that I can afford to take a lower paying job (or a clerkship) right out of school?
-do I like the school, the people, the professors, the atmosphere? I know there’s this notion that law school is something you suffer through to be a lawyer, but I absolutely loved my time at law school. VISIT THE PLACE.
kng
Exactly. I wouldn’t necessarly suggest it, but it was a good choice for me for many reasons — financially, personally (close to boyfriend now husband, family, friends), and i genuinely liked the school – it gave me a vibe that all of the others i visited did not.
i wouldn’t go to a school just for its name, especially if you’re probably going to be there for three of the most trying years of your life. it was important for me to be near my friends and family during such a rough time, rather than learning the ins and outs of a new city.
that said, had i gotten into a t14 school in my city (nyc) i may have made a different choice, but i know what i did worked for me.
MeliaraofTlanth
I went to a T-14. I wish I had taken scholarship money and gone somewhere lower ranked. Of course, i also graduated in 2010… Worst year ever.
Anon101
I did not:
Go to a T14. Have top grades. Get on law review. Get on moot court.
I did:
Go to the best law school in my region. Took out between $80-100k in school loans. Networked like crazy. Took hard classes in a wide range of areas. Found a lucrative practice area I love.
I know I will have a great career and pay off my loans. If I had listened to all the (hundreds of) people who told me law school was a terrible idea, I would not have the opportunities I have now.
My point: Don’t let anyone talk you out of following your dream.
Soapbox: I HATE when people say that no one should go to law school unless they get into a T14 or their education is completely funded. I have a friend who went to one of the top law schools in the country, has $250k in school loans (WTF!!!) and wants to practice law in one of the most competitive cities in the country, where his education is “not good enough” to land him a job. Meanwhile, I know plenty of brilliant lawyers who went to schools that some people on this blog probably haven’t even heard of, and they are doing fine for themselves. It’s up to YOU, not the school you went to, to make your career successful!
Sydney Bristow
I graduated in December 2009 and am currently doing document review. If you decide to go to law school, make sure to go to the best school you can with the best connections in the geographical area you want to practice in. Take out as little student loan debt as possible.
Personally, I would wait a few more years before going. There are huge numbers of attorneys from all sorts of schools who are in a holding pattern of sorts doing jobs they don’t really want to do while hoping the economy changes enough to get a first job or a better job.
I was like you (down to similar gpa and lsat scores) and knew that I wanted to be a lawyer. I knew what I was getting into school and work wise. Although things are bad now, I’m still sure that I want to be a lawyer. I started school before the economic crash, but if I was looking at going now, I don’t think that I would. I personally would wait and work for a few more years. The worst that could happen by waiting is that you work a job you don’t really care about for a few more years, add some quality employment to your resume that will set you apart from other graduating law students who went straight through school, and hopefully could save some money to help prevent massive student loan debt.
CSF
I agree with this. I don’t know that the notion of “Only go to law school if you don’t have to take out loans” is good. I think what Sydney Bristow is saying is more accurate. Take out as little loans as you can. I had friends who took out extra to support their Starbucks and big screen TV habits. They are out of work, with monstrous loans coming due. Then I have another friend who took out the bare minimum, and even though she doesn’t have a job yet, she’s able to make the payments.
Best and only advice the Dean of Admissions gave me: “Live like a lawyer while you’re in law school, and you’ll live like a law student as a lawyer.”
Ann
If you know you want to go to law school and be a lawyer, then go. I think the ones who should definitely not apply to lawschool are the ones who don’t know whether it is for them, or will quit when the work gets hard. You don’t sound like that person. Don’t wait for the legal jobs market to get back to where it was in 2007, because it probably never will. I caution you to not saddle yourself with $100k in student loans on the assumption you will get a Biglaw job. I have hears that sizable scholarships are rare, and I think you should add your local public university lawschool to your list.
Ann
I have *heard.*
BabyShark
One last thing to think about: I went to a great law school (T10). I was heavily recruited. I got huge scholarships from most of the T14 and chose the most money. I also got amazingly shitty grades (after graduating from undergrad summa and working my a** off). Every intention of rocking law school sometimes equals bottom half of the class. For about half of us.
Kady
I think it would help the other ‘rettes in this discussion if we knew (1) how long you’ve been a legal assistant (doesn’t have to be exact # of years, but there is a big difference btw someone who’s done it 1 year vs 3-5 years), (2) what size/type of law firm you are at, (3) what type of work (transactional/litigation) you’ve done at the law firm, and (4) what specific aspects of law you’ve liked.
I know paralegals who thought they really wanted to be lawyers who’ve gone to LS and then realized that they hate it.
But generally speaking, if you love the practice of law, go to as high a ranked school as you can with as few loans as possible, and you’ll be just fine.
Anon
I was one of the few who “knew” I had to be a lawyer since I was 12. I worked hard to get there (Ivy undergrad, T13 law school) and guess what? While I still like what I do a lot, I really hate many aspects of my job (long hours, working on weekends, mean opposing counsel) and think I could have made the same $ doing something less stressful. It would be nice to know that I can eat dinner with my husband every night, and nice to actually be able to make plans for the weekend without actually canceling them all the time. These might seem small things when you’re young and single, but working non-stop without an end in sight will drain you I guess.
Recently Downgraded
I concur entirely. I knew since I was 9 and managed to earn scholarships and keep my loans low by focusing entirely on school and work but omitting any semblance of a social life. I truly enjoyed law school itself, but 3 years of solid experience in a more stable industry would have been a much better investment. I think I’ve resolved that after giving up everything to get where I am and even though it sucks now that I’m here, it’s all there is left, so I’ll just keep working every weekend.
Herbie
In a nutshell: go to law school if you don’t have to take out loans to do so. Fully funding law school through loans is debt that will significantly impact many of your future decisions. It’s like having a mortgage without a house. If you’re thinking about taking out significant debt, ask yourself whether you ever planned on having two mortgages–your debt and your actual mortgage– and if you think you can do that on $50k/year. That could be where you end up.
“I know the amount of work it entails, and I know how difficult law school is. I’m not approaching this as never seeing the profession before.” There are very few real life Elle Woods that just up and decide to go to law school on a whim (“What, like it’s hard?”). Most lawyers knew the profession would be difficult and that law school is “hard” (the last point being debatable). Yet, they are still underemployed, unemployed, unhappy, or some combination thereof. So I take issue with the seemingly implicit suggestion that other people just didn’t know what they were getting into, but you of course do, so you’ll be fine.
As for thinking you’d like to work in BigLaw. I have to ask–why?
And finally, you are right to be concerned about job availability. There are approximately 100 lawyers for every available job right now. Not great odds.
Jeez, I need a c!cktail now.
Anonymous
I agree with this. So many people (most?) go to law school intending to work their asses off in class, make connections, and continue to network like crazy. Yet everyone ends up ranked in school. Only a few people can be at the top and so many people are trying so hard to get there. I think it is irresponsible to suggest that just because you know this is what you want and you intend to work hard means that you will be one of the successful ones.
Praxidike
I understand that you work in a law firm, but working in a law firm doesn’t mean you understand how difficult law school is or what being a lawyer is like. I generally attempt to dissuade anyone who wants to become a lawyer these days because it is an unforgiving, difficult profession. Despite those things, I love being a lawyer – but I just think of myself as lucky for actually enjoying it.
The ONLY way I think someone should go to law school these days is if they have a full scholarship to a top 30 school, or they/their family is wealthy enough for them to graduate without loans. I’m sure that’s not what you want to hear, and I’m equally sure you’ll get a bunch of people telling you to definitely go to law school. This is just my personal feeling on the matter.
What is it that makes you “know” you want to be a lawyer?
LStar
“The ONLY way I think someone should go to law school these days is if they have a full scholarship to a top 30 school, or they/their family is wealthy enough for them to graduate without loans.”
Agree with this. My basic advice to anyone interested in law school now is that if you can do it without taking on debt, go for it, but otherwise, don’t go.
Anonymous
This is a really hard question. How do you “know” you want to be a lawyer? What, exactly, really appeals to you about it? You work in a law firm, so you’ve observed at least some of what lawyers do. Tell us exactly what you like about it.
I’m asking because (and I really hope this doesn’t come across as arrogant) I have a very high level legal position with an very prestigioys employer that everyone reading this has heard of. I’ve had a very successful legal career for over 20 years. And if I had it to do over again, I wouldn’t go to law school. I think back on the countless 15+ hour days, sometimes not even being able to remember the last time I had a whole weeken off, the missed holidays with my family, the wedding and birthdays I missed, the “vacation” time I spent on my blackberry, taking conference calls in my husband’s hospital room after a very serious car accident — all because of some filing or document review deadline in cases whose names I don’t even remember
anymore. And that no one one the planet could give a hoot about anymore.
I know there will probably be a lot of people who pile on and scold me for not setting limits, for being a workaholic, and protesting that I’m an anomoly and not all firms/companies are like mine. Maybe so. But I think you’ll hear a lot of similar stories from a lot of lawyers who are really driven to succeed. I’ve also been really fortunate to work on some things that have been immensely satisfying and that have made a difference in peoples’ lives.
In the end, and this is just my own personal opinion, I think law is a miserable, soul-sucking profession, and unless you can articulate a really compelling, non-superficial reason for wanting to do it, don’t.
p
How do you “know” that you want to be a lawyer? What do you do for the attorneys that you work for?
I am an attorney…..and often JEALOUS of my assistant, who gets to leave at 5, doesn’t have to obsess over billing time, only has to schedule things with d-bags (as opposed to spending hours in deposition/hearings/nefotiations with them) and doesn’t have an extra house payment for the next 30 years in student loan payments. That debt really limits you in what you are able to do. The option of staying home
with kids for a year or two is now foreclosed to me because of that
debt….before I could even realize that it was something that I wanted!
I consider law school to be one of my life’s biggest mistakes. I went to a well-regarded state school, work in mid law in said region, and enjoy my colleagues ok…was it worth giving up my 20’s buried in hornbooks and a law office, doomed to obsess over every six minutes of my life and argue minutae with duchebags to pay for the degree for the foreseeable future? ABSOLUTELY NOT.
Just One More Perspective
I went to one of the schools on your list, class of 2011. My three best friends and I all graduated in the top 10% – one of us has a mid-law job, two of us have temporary legal jobs that probably pay less than what you’re making now (think $15.00-$20.00 an hour), and one of us (me) is doing an unpaid legal internship and waitressing nights/weekends to make ends meet. I did everything right (great grades despite an ambitious class schedule, supervisory spot on law review, published, glowing letters of recommendation from several professors and a federal judge) but can’t find a job, especially because I’m confined to a relatively small legal market for family reasons.
I have some student loan payments coming up due, but because of my law school scholarship and my very frugal living habits during school, they’re only a few hundred a month – which I can manage even on my waitress salary without having to go hungry (it helps that I’m married, but my husband’s in a minimum wage retail job, so it doesn’t help that much).
BUT if I had the choice over again, I still would go to law school. I loved it, I loved every summer internship I had, and I love the internship I have now. It was something I wanted to do for its own sake, not for the promise of nice clothes and a luxury car, and I’m glad I did it. If it’s something you really want to do, and you honestly wouldn’t mind graduating and making exactly the same salary that you do now, then go for it! Just try to pick a program that won’t put you deeply in debt.
Also, FWIW, T14 isn’t a magical ticket to a job either. I work at my internship with a gal who graduated from a school in the T14, and she’s making the exact same amount I am – $0. Don’t bury yourself in student loans for that reason.
Good luck with your decision!
RP
These comments are so scary. I’ve dreamed of law school for a long time as well. I’ve already taken the LSAT. The score and my GPA are good enough for a decent shot at everywhere but HYS — but I still feel like I might be making a mistake by applying to law school. I don’t want to do biglaw (I don’t want to be miserable), and would prefer to do public interest if possible, but am restricted to living in NYC long-term for family reasons, which means life will always be expensive. Can I get through law school without loans? Probably not, unless I go a lesser known school. So the financial calculus says law school is not a good choice for me. But if not law school, then what? What do I do with my life? It would be phenomenally stupid to go to law school simply because I couldn’t think of an alternative career path, but that is precisely what so many of peers have ended up doing, and I can understand why.
E
Go to a law school with an excellent loan repayment program. It helps a lot. Even if you can’t get into HYS, many of the top schools will help substantially with your debt load if you go into public interest. If you can limit yourself to federal loans, you’ll also get a huge help from the federal government’s income-based repayment plan.
I think most of the comments on this thread lack a certain perspective. Yes, law school is difficult and expensive. The first 10 years of your legal career will be very difficult. It may be very hard to find a job, and once you get one you will put a good chunk of your salary toward debt. However, if you genuinely want to be a lawyer and you don’t go to law school, then you will be unhappy with your career.
Law school is a bad choice for people who only want to go because they have no other ideas on what to do with their lives, don’t understand the impact of debt, and don’t understand the difficult job market. Those people will be miserable for the first 10 years and unhappy for the 30 years after that. But if you want to be a lawyer and enjoy your job, it’s worth struggling for a few years in order to enjoy your career for the next 30.
MelD
I agree. I came from a career I absolutely loathed into law and while the debt is certainly difficult, I am *much* happier in this job than I was in my old one and know that 5 years down the road I will have a lot more growth potential than I ever did in my last job.
That said I do not think you should limit yourself to federal loans. My private loan debt now is a lot less than I’d have if I were stuck with 8.5% GradPLUS loans (my private loans are at 2% now), and the payments are manageable with the help I get from the IBR. I know people who signed up for GradPLUS who wish they had not because the interest rates end up being so high with consolidation.
E
Well, the OP mentioned that she will be able to get into some top law schools. In her situation it makes sense to try to limit the debt and still attend a very good law school. If the choice were between paying full price at a very good school or taking a scholarship at a T100, I’d advise to pay full price even if it means taking on a full load of debt.
laywer-in-training
If you haven’t already, you should apply to NYU’s RTK scholarship program. Its a full ride for a handful of kids committed to public interest work.
s
Did you dream of “law school” or or “being an attorney”/”practicing law”? Those are two very different things. If you don’t want to PRACTICE, law school is a bad idea. I’m not sure why this law school thing is so prevalent…you don’t see med schools crawling with people who “don’t want to practice medicine.”
Everyone says “public interest,” but what exactly would you like to do? Work with criminals? underprivileged women? environmental issues? public policy? I think that you’ll find that there is a lot that you could do outside of practicing law to advocate for those issues! (If you’re not sure what you want to do, or which “public interest” you’re wanting to serve, I’m not sure how taking 3 years out of the work force and accruing six figures of debt is going to help the analysis!)
Lhd
You don’t qualify for loan repayment unless you actually get a legal aid job. That aren’t any easier to get than the big law jobs. Don’t count on assistance with loan repayment.
Business&LawStudent
I’m in exactly the same position as you! I’ve worked in a law firm throughout high school and college. Now that I’m graduating, I’m applying to law schools. I know that I will incur more debt, but I personally feel that it is more reasonable to do that than to sit at a job that I will like and be good at but not love with my current degree, which will already take time to pay off, and wait for the economy to turn so that I can go after the job I really want. My boss (who is an attorney) explained it like this (in a conversation I had with him debating whether I should take a year or so off): no matter what, you are going to be incurring this debt and have already incurred the debt you have now. No matter what, you are going to want to go to law school. In all likelihood, you will get a better paying job going to law school than with your current degree (which is good on its own, of course). Therefore, spend these years where you won’t get a well-paid job that you love going after one that pays better that you will love. Plus, it is always more difficult to go back to school once you enter the workplace.
L
I am a somewhat new attorney, and I have a day of interviews for an in-house position at a major corporation on Monday! It is an IP position. Any advice out there? I am especially unsure about salaries, since in-house attorneys seem to generally have much more experience than me. Other thoughts about moving from a firm to in-house?
Esquirette
I’m at a firm so this is just based on comments from friends who are in house. I think in house salaries are all over the board but, from numbers I’ve heard in the past, they are generally around or slightly above national salary averages (e.g., $70-90K). The only thing I can think of is to be readily able to discuss what experience you have in the field (patent, TM, lit, pros?), how you manage handling a lot of things (I think in house counsel are often overwhelmed and have less staff that law firms) and how you can fit in their team (in house is like joining a family). I wonder about going in house sometimes but have so little information about what it would be like (especially for me as a patent attorney) that it’s almost a non-starter. I would love to hear how your day went next week! Good luck!
L
I am a patent attorney as well! Like you said, I have little info about what it would be like. I am happy in the firm I am in now, but I am really curious about what it would be like. Part of me is excited about the idea of doing more than drafting patents. :) I will let you know what I learn!
Herbie
I’m a recent firm-to-in-house lawyer! What do you guys want to know??
Esquirette
Tell us about what you do! So many questions – let’s start with: Is your practice more or less diverse? Are you pigeon-holed in your position or do you see opportunities for growth? In my practice, I do opinion work, portfolio counseling, prep & pros, and due diligence (haven’t had the opportunity for lit in my tech area). The diversity is important to me — at least because 100% prep & pros would drive me insane — so I wonder how in house compares. When I think of people going in house, I think of corporate attorneys (and occasionally litigators) who know enough to get by and handle what they don’t know on the fly. For patent attorneys, is it just prosecution or licensing? Really, any insight would be appreciated!
L
Ooh! So much to ask!
How did you find the transition? I think one of the biggest issues for me is that I have always worked in firms who don’t really care about face time. My schedule has been totally up to me. I’m assuming this would be one of my biggest challenges.
Esquirette- I was told that in this position, the extent of my prep and pros would be managing outside counsel. I would kind of love to be on the other side of prep and pros! But then, what do you do all day?
Esquirette
Yes, I have heard that some in house positions are overseeing what outside counsel is doing. A friend from law school went from being a patent agent to an in house attorney with her company, and her practice totally changed. Instead of prosecuting, she now oversees outside counsel for part of the company’s portfolio and actually spends most of her time doing licensing now — so she’s needing to learn a lot. I’m not sure how much to take her experience as the norm though because of her own circumstances moving up through the company and the company itself. Plus, I’m not really sure if there is a norm for in house — it seems like things would be so company specific. In any case, good luck tomorrow!!! Let us know how it went!
Herbie
Apologies for the delayed response. I don’t know how helpful I’ll be as I’m not an IP lawyer, but here we go. Your job duties will depend largely on the company and how its in-house department is structured. With a large legal department, chances are you will be more specialized—you’ll be counsel for labor & employment, IP counsel, or litigation counsel, etc. I work for a large company with a very small legal department. That means I get to be involved with *everything*. So, what I’ve worked on recently (although I have to be fairly circumspect about this): I manage a number of lawsuits (patent troll, general commercial, employment, class action); I’m revising some of our internal policies; I’m helping to negotiate and review/revise multiple contracts; and I’m helping develop our patent portfolio. I also do one-off stuff—like when someone calls me up, tells me that a pr0n site registered a domain similar to our main domain, and asks what we can do about that. I also keep my eyes and ears open so that if I see behavior/practices that might expose the company to risk, we can take corrective action. I support our US operations, overseas operations, and several companies we purchased. I love it because I get to be an integral part of the entire business. I am involved in *every* aspect of what we do, which is very exciting. But what that also means is that I’m a generalist, and I’m not the one drafting briefs (or even substantially revising them) or taking the first cut at revising contracts. So, if a business person wants to enter into a contract with another company, I’ll send the contract to outside counsel for first review/revision, I’ll review outside counsel’s changes and then make my own revisions, then collaborate with the business person to negotiate with the other side to finalize the contract. I don’t go to hearings, depositions, etc. unless ordered by the court. I rely heavily on outside counsel because our legal department is so small that we just can’t do everything ourselves.
L, you asked about face time and schedule. Those are probably functions of culture. At my company, relationship-building is very important, and that’s nearly impossible to do if you’re not present much. Also, the business people are your clients, so it’s important to keep similar hours. As a result, my schedule is much less flexible than it was at a law firm. At my firm, if we’d had a few crazy months, I could get away with coming in at 10 and leaving at 4 for two weeks if things slowed down. Plus, my partners all got in late, so it was cool for me to come in at 9:30 if we weren’t going crazy. In-house, my workflow is very regular; doesn’t have the ebb and flow that my litigation practice did. I also am an expense, not a profit center, so it’s important that our business partners perceive that I work hard. As a result, I’m generally in the office by 8:15 and out by 6:30 every day. I don’t feel like it’s acceptable to get here after 8:30 a.m. or leave before 6 p.m. as a matter of habit (it’s okay if, for example, you have a doctor’s appointment in the a.m. or plans that night). On the other hand, with few exceptions, I don’t work late, and I don’t work on the weekends. And, knowing that I will be done by 6:30 every day and can make plans without having to be tentative or fearful of cancelling is absolutely marvelous. Plus, the pace is just different. I still work at least 50 hours a week, but it’s different than billing 50 hours a week. There also isn’t that extreme pressure you see in a lot of transactional/litigation work. Things are pretty even keeled. The way I see it, I gave up some flexibility by going in-house, but in exchange I got predictability. One caveat, though: as I move up the ladder, I expect longer hours and less predictability. Our GC works much more than I do.
Good luck in your interviews!
L
Thanks so much for your feedback!
My position now is pretty cushy. I have an office, and I go there a few times a week. Otherwise, as long as my deadlines are met, there is no schedule. When i do go in, it is often not until 10 or so. Face time has become a foreign concept!
My interview is actually Wednesday. 6-7 hours of one-on-one interviews! I will be sure to follow up.
Esquirette
Thanks, Herbie!
Jas
Dear Accounting Department,
It’s great that you want to reduce the amount of paper we use, and electronic expense reports are a good idea! However, you do realise that making us print them out so we can sign each page, then scan it in and email it to you, doesn’t actually save any paper, right?
Kady
LOL. I run into this ALL THE TIME.
Esquirette
ROFL.
Research, Not Law
Like.
No, no: Love.
karenpadi
Don’t tell accounting–I use my electronic signature.
This is blatant disregard for their policy but I am not printing stuff out only to scan it back in.
Bella
Agree. And trying to find a good scanner at the client side…:-(
Rainee
I am 33 and TTC with little success. I am seeing someone for a initial consult and maybe a fertilty workup next week. What are some of the questions you wish you had asked early on?
I am reading up about it but there is so much information on this but so much of it is geared towards IVF
anonymous
Sorry you are going through this.
Who is doing your workup? I highly recommend that you bypass your GYN and go to a reputable Reproductive Endocrinologist right away.
I really don’t think there are many questions to ask early on. Primarily, I would focus on finding out what tests they are running and why. Obviously make sure your partner is being tested at the same time.
One thing I would recommend doing now is start talking with your partner about where your limits are. Start hashing out issues such as how long you are willing to try, how much you are willing to spend, how invasive you are willing to be with treatment, whether you are willing to look at donor gametes, whether you would consider adoption, etc. Of course you might change your mind on any of these points, but I think it is very useful to have these conversations before you really get to a diagnosis. In the abstract, before you know how serious/not serious the issue is and who it may lay with, you can probably be both more rational about the process and honest about your gut reaction. Once you start getting answers and into treatment, it can be very easy to get sucked into the process and lose a sense of perspective.
Good luck.
Rainee
Thank you; it is very reassuring to read this. I am going to see a RE at a fertility center (CFA in DC). I am currently taking the head in sand approach and hadn’t considered talking about limits. Something to think about.
anonymous
I am really grateful that I had gone down the limits discussion prior to getting a diagnosis. I completely changed my mind on almost everything — I started out opposed to IVF and ok with donor gametes, and ended up very uncomfortable with donor gametes and doing IVF. But having the conversations was still very helpful for us. We were able to weigh our actual options against our pre-diagnosis thoughts and have some well-reasoned discussions. It was also helpful to go in saying “this is how much and how long we are willing to spend on this process before we move on.” If you don’t have success your first cycle, the emotional roller coaster can make it really hard to either keep up stamina or know when to get off.
One question I did think to ask, since you are going straight to a clinic, is to find out how they handle cases. Will you have a nurse co-ordinator? Will you have a regular RE, or will whomever is working that day be the person you see? How do they establish treatment decisions? Clinics are generally the way to go to for success, but they do tend to have a factory feel. It is good to poke around to see what they do to try to guide you through the process in a more personalized way.
earth
Hi
I am happy that you are going to try the treatment,my advise is please be have patience and hope.This treatment is a step by step procedure like you and your partner will go through some basic tests first (thyroid etc) then more advanced tests which can be your hormone level,ultrasound for you as well as for your partner.I just want to let you know 40% causes can be found in ladies,30% in males and 20% causes of infertility is unknown.Start a log about your cycles as well as your treatment.Sometimes surgeries may have to be done if required ,depending upon causes.Have a budget in mind.Take care.All the best.And do ask around for reproductive endocrinologist.
earth
earth
And there are many options IVF is one of them and first to be tried because of its ease but there are many options like artificial insemination,GIFT etc etc,But all this depends upon the cause of infertility.Good luck.
anonymous
I’m sure you were just throwing out other options, but in the interst of clarity for others who might be new to the process, I thought I’d expand on your thoughts (with the notation that I’m not a doctor, just a consumer of these services).
Artificial insemination is generally tried before IVF because it is less invasive, though it is not indicated for many diagnosis, either because it offers very little chance for success or because it can carry the risk for high order multiples. GIFT and ZIFT aren’t really used any more, and are sort of variants of IVF (they involve the transfer of either the gametes or zygote into the fallopian tubes, rather than a fertilized embryo into the uterus).
Natural cycle IVF is becoming an option at more clinics now. As a matter of efficacy, it really isn’t indicated, but for couples who have ethical/religious concerns with the possibility of creating “extra” embryos, it can be a good option.
Other “baby-steps” on to IVF include drugs like clomid that are used to “trigger” ovulation. Any medicated cycles should be carefully monitored by ultrasound to make sure that too many eggs aren’t produced (most high order multiples are the result of medicated cycles, rather than IVF).
Anne-on
This – if you don’t already, make sure you have accurate information on your cycles to bring to your doctor (mine suggested having at least 6 months of information on your cycles off of hormones.) Apparently you’d be shocked at the number of people who simply don’t know when they’re fertile and to try during that time period.
E
FOR ANON WHO WAS LOOKING FOR A BESPOKE SUIT FOR A LARGE BUST:
Posting this here again because I posted late in the other thread and doubt you saw my response.
Try this place:
http://www.geoffreylewisltd.com/
It’s right near my office. I haven’t used it personally, but the stuff in their window looks beautiful, and their website says they do women’s attire. It’s on H St between 14th and 15th. If they can’t make you a suit, I bet they know who can.
Anon
That was me! Thanks!
Anon for this
Mini-vent – I just moved into my first grown-up apartment in New York (approaching 30, so very happy about this), and while it is a beautiful, totally renovated apartment (albeit without any view), there are things about it that are driving me a little crazy and had I known, I may not have taken it. I.e., I am on a low floor and there is a pervasive low humming noise from the boiler, it is cold at night as the landlord strictly adheres to NYC heating requirements (which seem insane – between 10pm and 6pm, the apartment basically only needs to be heated if it is below 40 outside!), and just now some idiot kid (I hope it was a kid!) across the way was shining a laser pointer into my window (yes, I know I need blinds and will get them soon, but seriously???). Just wanted to vent for a minute – thanks!
ANP
Ick! Sorry this has happened to you. However, lots of these things are fixable. I can highly recommend plug-in heaters these days; we really had to get one for my daughter’s room when she was an infant (old house = totally inconsistent heating system) and I was nervous. All I could think of were the oldschool ones from when I was a kid (with an exposed element). But we bought a new one off Amazon and it really does the trick. The sound of the heater might also cover up your boiler noise — and then all you have to deal with are the blinds!
MeliaraofTlanth
:-(I can’t help with the humming noise, but maybe a space heater for the cold? Also, make sure cold air isn’t coming in through the window cracks (if you have old windows and they don’t seal well)–if it is, buy weather stripping. I would have frozen to death in college were it not for weather stripping I put around my windows every winter (You could seriously see daylight in the crack between the window and the frame)
And yes, the NYC heating requirements are a little insane.
EC
Blinds are good, but I’ve found that insulated curtains are just as helpful for blocking strange lights and retaining heat, and not as difficult to procure or install as blinds. If you have access, try to hit a JC Penney or Kohl’s during sale time; I got decorative curtain rods and insulated curtains for two very large windows (6 panels apiece), all for less than $400.
And I’ve found that strange noises in new homes are often disruptive the first few weeks, but then become your new normal. I agree that a space heater might cover up the noise; some ceiling fans also come with settings that push heat down and keep you warmer. A high quality fan installed correctly will give you a low whir without any noisy rattling, and might also cover up the boiler.
Also, consider a heated mattress pad for the night-time cold. I love mine so, so much.
And congratulations on the new place!
Bella
Curtains are also warmer and block some noise. My bedroom in on the street side, so I use those special light blocking curtains. I got mine at Ikea, the whole solution cost about 100$ for a 5 foot window. Totally worth it for better sleep and more privacy!
I love my heated pad! Keeps my feet warm and my head cool at night.
I’d also first ask my landlord the friendly way. Make him feel like you could be his niece who is on her own in the big city and needs to be warm for the winter. I’m pretty strategic when it comes to getting what I need and find it more effective to assume, or at least pretend to assume, good intentions at first. People are just more willing to to something when they feel good about it than when they feel coerced.
Sydney Bristow
Been/am there with you. People in my building are about to take our landlord to housing court for not turning on the heat yet, having multiple days over the past month where there has been no hot water, the super, upon being asked to snake a toilet, said that toilet paper should be thrown away and not flushed, etc. I could go on and on. A neighbor apparently saw the super chase away the friend of someone who lives here by swinging a giant piece of wood at the kid. All around bad news. Ok, my vent is over now too.
MelD
I recommend some thermal panels/curtains for your bedroom along with the space heater. I lived in Japan for a few years (no central heat there) and the space heater was a godsend. I had a fairly large one that kept the room fairly toasty. That alone may drown out the noise, but if not just use earplugs. The earplugs should cover up everything that doesn’t have a really low frequency (like bass blasting from a speaker).
CSF
If the space heater doesn’t cover the noise, I suggest a white noise machine. I got one three weeks ago, and it has been a god-send. I sleep better now than I have in a decade.
Anon
Re: blinds – I did not know this, so just in case you don’t either – at home depot, they will cut to size the blinds they have in boxes, so if your window measurements don’t line up with what they have in stock, don’t despair! Also, blinds are not at all hard to install, but you do need a drill.
Margaret
Helpful tip: they sell temporary blinds at places like Home Depot etc (not sure what the options are in NYC) that are cheap paper things, but can be pulled up and down. They apply to the window pane with an adhesive strip. We put them up for privacy and light-blocking while we waited for special-order curtains to come in. I know friends who have used them for much longer periods. Knowing that you have this easy, quick, and cheap temporary option — you should definitely do that right away even if you don’t have time to sort out exactly what you want long-term for a while.
Lilly
These. Are. Great.
Anonymous
If you have a neighbor staring into your window, make sure you put up curtains in addition to blinds. The metal (or maybe they’re just plastic?) mini-blinds that are the apartment standard are totally see through. I came home the other night and walking in from the parking lot could see right into my neighbor’s bedroom even though their blinds were closed. They probably work in 95% of cases, but if there’s someone who wants to see in, the blinds will definitely let them. Even light curtains sometimes aren’t enough to block enough light, and someone could see your silhouette if say, you were changing, or engaging in “activities” with another person. Maybe I’m too private, but the idea of someone even just seeing my silhouette while I’m clearly changing creeps me out.
Anon
Moving into my first “grown-up” apartment made me realize how privileged I’ve been all my life. You don’t realize how many problems your parents solved for you until you have to deal with them all on your own. In my first apartment, I had cockroaches (and I was not a messy person by any means). My boyfriend had bed bugs. It took months of extermination efforts before the bug issues were resolved. Total nightmare! Count your blessings! It could be waaaaay way worse ;)
Geneticist
Getting near graduation and hoping to get a job in industry (pharma/biotech/etc). I haven’t changed my hair (ponytail) since middle school. Can anyone recommend a hair stylist in Chicago who can pick out a hair style that will look good on me? I always look at pictures online but can’t determine which would actually look good with my face/build.
NerdyInChicago
Any preferred neighborhoods? I love Yeefah at Art & Science in Evanston. She is the only hairstylist who has actually believed me when I said I wouldn’t ever use a blow dryer in the morning (I’ve had others try to show me how “easy” it is and that never pans out…). She cut my hair so that it looks good when I wash and wear with just a little bit of product to keep it from frizzing. If you’ve worn your hair in a ponytail since middle school and are going into a technical field, I figure we have similar “styling” preferences or lack thereof ;)
Disclaimer: I am caucasian with fairly easy to manage hair.
Geneticist
Haha, unfortunately Evanston is way too far away, anything Lincoln Park or southwards, especially Loop-ish, would be best!
Ade
No tips for Chicago (did you try yelp?). But I gotta say from recent experience that while I think it’s great to give your stylist artistic license, if you have a line to draw make sure you make that really clear. Like, say you would still like your hair to be long enough to put in a tiny ponytail if needed–then say so. Just so you’re not left shocked after the haircut :)
Geneticist
I did try Yelp, been to three different salons 0ver the past year or two, but none of them have been able to really suggest a cut for me. They usually want to know what style I’d like… and I just want to say “give me a low maintenance cut that looks adult and doesn’t make me constant play with it to keep it out of my eyes.”
Lucy
B-Yourself in Lincoln Park was my fave, back in the day.
jcb
Salon U in Lincoln Park
AnonOne
For what it’s worth, I’m in pharma and still wear my hair in a pony tail every day. I actually blew out my hair way more often in grad school when I didn’t have to be in the lab at a specified time of the day.
E
Try Asha Salon Spa. They have Bucktown and Gold Coast locations. Ashasalonspa dot com.
nev
I love Yeefah at Art+Science in Evanston! She gave me a great cut for my curly hair. I believe there’s another Art+Science further south. I also go to Mixed Co. on W. Erie, and love them too.
312
Stacey at Swerve Salon on Wells. If you work in the loop, it isn’t a far walk from the red line Clark and Division stop.
Nonster
Keri at Michael Anthony, State Street. She is a whiz. If you ever go for color, see Camryn.
roses
I go to Kerri at Streets of London in Lakeview. She’s amazing!
As an aside, there appear to be more Chicago Corporettes than I thought! From reading a lot of the threads it seemed like everyone was in NY, DC and SF :)
Old Towner
I go to Red 7 on Kinzie across from the Merchandise Mart. Highly recommend!
Lana Lang
Another shout out for the potential London Corporette meet-up – if you are in London and want to meet up with other Corporettes e-mail londoncorporette@gmail.com.
At the moment it looks like said event will be towards the end of October.
Anonymous
Article on asking for more money: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/careers/career-advice/leah-eichler/at-the-risk-of-sounding-pushy-you-should-pay-me-more/article2195052/
meme
What is your favorite brand of boots for narrow calves? I’m looking for something sleek with 2-3″ heel, and everything I’m tying on seems too roomy in the calves.
coree
I’m UK based so this might not be relevant but I’ve only heard good things about DUO, they let you order by calf size so if you have skinny calves (you) or chubby calves (me), you’ll have a perfect fit.
MelD
Try Miz Mooz. Most of the styles tend to be a bit slimmer in the calves and there are several styles out now that seem to be fairly sleek with a 2″ heel. Camper also runs slim, but is a little bit pricier than Miz Mooz.
Bunkster
The Boston Corporette meet-up is Thursday, October 20th. If you’re interested in joining us, just email me at bostoncorporette@gmail.com and I’ll send the link to the doodle event.
VPL
Might be too late in the weekend to get much feedback, but here goes a try. I don’t like thongs or boyshorts. Any suggestions for regular bikini panties that truly minimize visible panty line? Cotton would be a plus.
MelD
I think bikini+cotton is going to be nearly impossible. There are some decent hipster Gilligan & O’Malley panties from Target. To avoid moderation, it’s the style that pops up when you go to the lingerie screen.
E
Try Fruit of the Loom Cotton Stretch, which comes in bikini and brief styles. I get them at Walmart or Target. They’re not the most durable panties in the world (I find they last about 6 months, and I never put them in the dryer), but there is absolutely no VPL.
Missy
Check out www DOT maidenform DOT com. I like One Fab Fit bikini (no VPL, very comfortable, last forever even though I throw them in the washer/dryer mercilessly), but they are not cotton. I did see a cotton version, though.
EM
I’ve found that the only way to get cotton underwear that doesn’t have a pantyline and that isn’t a thong or boyshorts is to buy those huge granny panties with the most amount of coverage over the derriere as possible. They’re ugly as sin, but they don’t show a VPL when wearing thin, unlined pants.
The problem with bikini styles is that the leg opening cuts directly across the fleshy part of one’s behind. The granny panties cover that part and the leg opening is where one’s leg meets the rear, thus eliminating VPL.
Hanes has some comfy ones that have non-old lady colors and patterns.
nev
Yep, the giant granny panty style – where the leg opening is actually at your thigh and not on your butt. I personally think they’re even better than thongs because they don’t cut into my hip and show a line there.
For minimized VPL , Victoria’s Secret also has cotton lace-waist panties that I really like – they don’t work with very thin/tight pants, but for my normal-fitting wool-blend trousers there’s no VPL.
Just E
I like those VS ones too. They’re pretty much all I wear now that my second kid bestowed on me the a$$ I never had. (As an aside, why in the world would being pregnant increase the size of one’s rear? And why would that unwelcome feature hang around long after the baby weight’s been lost? One of the mysteries of the universe, I suppose. He’s lucky he’s cute.)
a lawyer
Gap body bikinis or briefs. Get the ones that do not have lace. They are almost invisible. Made somewhat small. I use the XS whereas usually I need S.
Research, Not Law
Ditto this. So long as I order 1 or even sometimes 2 sizes up, I get cute panties and no VPL.
But for work, I often go with granny panties. I feel like it’s more reliable (and comfy). I have Jockey, not for any particular reason.
I have some Jockey synthetic panties designed to not have VPL. Sorry, they are too old for me to remember style name. They are comfy (esp on hot days) and very effective, but I reserve them for the most difficult skirts and pants since they aren’t cotton.
a lawyer
Made large–order small!
VPL
Thanks for the suggestions! The ones I wear right now are either the Target ones, or cotton bikinis from Costco (of all places) – both fit well although they don’t hold up long, but I really need something with less visible panty line for under thinner pants. I just can’t bring myself to do the Granny panties, but will try some of the bikini brands suggested here!
Anonymous
Probably too late in the weekend, but here goes. Anyone else who has decided not to have kids get baby envy? I’m a lawyer, happily married, and my husband and I made the conscious decision not to have kids a few years ago. I still don’t want want to be a mother, but I find myself “left out” of the invites, conversations, and just common topics of friends who have kids. It seems like every time I hop on fb these days I see kid pictures, pregnancy announcements, etc. It just leaves me feeling a bit envious of the lives that others have, even though it’s not the life want for myself. Anyone else without kids just feel like an outsider?
Monday
A bit. I think the real issue, though, is simply being one of the few people you know who doesn’t have X–whether X is a job, a partner, a mortgage, whatever. There are a lot of ways to be an “outsider,” and it sounds like this is the one that is hitting you, at least at the moment. The lack of invitations that you mention is lame in the extreme, but again mirrors the other kinds of exclusion that people do when, for example, you’re single and they for some reason think their dinner party has to be all couples, or you’re unemployed and they’re doing happy hour and feel awkward calling you. It is what it is.
Being on Facebook is hardest for me on Fathers Day. Everyone posts happy notes about their Dads (or for Dads or from Dads to their kids), and although obviously nobody wants to make me feel bad, the fact is that my Dad has passed away. I grieve all over again, this time for not being part of what everyone else is celebrating. Hang in there.
Anon
Yes, I know what you mean. Not sure I have advice, but you’re not alone. Most of my friends now have a baby or are on #2 and I’m starting to see some changes. Facebook reads like an obnoxious gynecological text, but that’s another story!
I agree it’s easy to get sucked into thinking that it’s all fun and busy, but the flip side you don’t see easily is the drain financially and a lot of the stuff they are doing probably wouldn’t really appeal to you … (loud kids parties, gross bodily functions/diapers/snot everywhere/just wait till they are teenagers) ….
In all honesty, I bet they also envy you – freedom, ability to do things they may not be able to do/sleep!. And don’t forget facebook has so much bullsh*t to it – they are purposely trying to show their lives are happy and fulfilling ….
Hope this helps …
Nonster
“Facebook reads like an obnoxious gynecological text…”
This made me laugh; not “obnoxious” per se, but my FB friends have a lot of sonogram pics as their profiles right now, and I want to ask them, “who have you been this whole time until now?”
Anon
I think what is hardest for me about this (and what makes me envious) is that there is never any good one line update to give people about my life now that I am married, in a job I love, but without children. I feel like conversations with my friends when you ask “what’s up” always consist of talk now of either having children or trying to have children. They ask me and I talk about my garden, learning to cook, or house renovations. I feel like I don’t have the same exciting news to share, and while I love my life, that makes me sad sometimes.
Ekaterin Nile
Definitely. I’m 37, DH is 38, and we’ve decided against having children. (Although we get lots of “but there’s still time!” comments.) I don’t want children, but it’s really hard not to feel left out when everyone else we know (friends, colleagues, etc.) had children. What also makes it tough is that I really have no interest in other people’s babies. I don’t want to hold the new baby, and frankly, I’d rather play with the new parents’ (now neglected) kitty than hold the new baby. But that’s a thought I keep to myself…
I just remind myself that feeling left out is not a reason to have children, and lots of people feel left out for lots of different reasons. So you’re not alone.
Esquirette
You are not alone. I can’t throw a (metaphorical) rock without hitting a baby or expectant mother (including on the blogs I follow!). :) Like Ekaterin Nile, I too would rather play with the neglected family pet than the new baby. I will go nuts over a new puppy but only look politely at babies and small children. Recently, though, I’ve been feeling flares of “what if.” I don’t know which is more annoying, the thought that it is envy or exclusion triggering it or some kind of “biological clock.” My husband and I have been rolling stones for much of our lives — which has made thoughts of children pretty distant in my mind (though less so in his). I think we’d do just fine without kids but then wonder if maybe they’d be worth it. The cons are pretty high — personally, professionally, financially, emotionally — in so so many ways — and I’m not so in love with the human species that procreating (in practice or conceptually) sounds like a good idea. But still, right now, it’s an aspect of a lot of people’s lives (an absorbing one!) that is not part of my own so it does make me feel like an outsider. I can feel joy for others but have no comparable joy of my own.
Miss Zarves
Bay Area Corporettes: I need an idea of a good place to meet an old friend for lunch!
It’s going to be nice and we’d like to be somewhere to enjoy the sunshine and warmth. City proper is out: think East Bay, San Jose to Suisun. Berkeley/Oakland area a plus. I’m thinking somewhere more structured than simply a nice park. And the catch: it has to be wheelchair-friendly.
Help me out here ladies!
SF Girl
Broadway Plaza, Walnut Creek.
SF Girl
Or Bay Street, Emeryville.
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