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Yowza — in addition to tax day sales (with lots of pieces under $50), 6pm.com is also featuring sales from Cole Haan and Stuart Weitzman. I'm digging these tall classic boots, with concealed Nike Air technology, a nice round toe, and a stretchy back panel. They were $298, but are now marked 60% off to $119.20 (lots of sizes left in both black and brown!). Cole Haan Air Jalisa Tall Boot Sales of note for 9.30.24
- Nordstrom – Beauty deals through September
- Ann Taylor – Extra 30% off sale
- Banana Republic Factory – 50% off everything + extra 20% off
- Boden – 15% off new styles
- Eloquii – Extra 50% off sale
- J.Crew – 50% off select styles
- J.Crew Factory – Up to 60% off everything + 50% off sale with code
- Lo & Sons – Warehouse sale, up to 70% off
- M.M.LaFleur – Save 25% sitewide
- Neiman Marcus – Friends & Family 25% off
- Rag & Bone – Friends & Family 25% off sitewide
- Spanx – Lots of workwear on sale, some up to 70% off
- Talbots – Fall Cyber Monday sale, 40% off sitewide and $5 shipping
- Target – Car-seat trade-in event through 9/28 — bring in an old car seat to get a 20% discount on other baby/toddler stuff.
- White House Black Market – 40% off select styles
And some of our latest threadjacks here at Corporette (reader questions and commentary) — see more here!
Some of our latest threadjacks include:
- What to say to friends and family who threaten to not vote?
- What boots do you expect to wear this fall and winter?
- What beauty treatments do you do on a regular basis to look polished?
- Can I skip the annual family event my workplace holds, even if I'm a manager?
- What small steps can I take today to get myself a little more “together” and not feel so frazzled all of the time?
- The oldest daughter is America's social safety net — change my mind…
- What have you lost your taste for as you've aged?
- Tell me about your favorite adventure travels…
ChristinaMD
Looking for suggestions – in addition to my 9 – 5 I teach part time at the local community college. I have recently been informed that due to decreased enrollment none of the adjuncts will be teaching this summer. It doesn’t bring in substantial income, but it’s the difference between eating Raman for 3 months, and being able to go out/entertainment/shopping (~$500 – $1000/mo). Does anyone have any suggestions for easy ways I can make up the income without spending a ton of time at a second job over the summer (and probably not retail since with the discount, I may end up even poorer than if I simply took the summer off). I’ve checked other county community colleges and no one seems to be hiring :(
P
Since you have teaching experience, maybe you could teach a standardized test class or two? I’m not sure that you would make $1000 a month but making something like $500 a month seems within reach.
TCFKAG
Tutoring?
Lucy
Teaching online? That would increase your number of potential employer institutions.
anonymo
What’s your teaching experience in? I agree that tutoring is a good option. I would post fliers in local coffee shops (or in higher income areas where parents will spend the $$ to get their kids private tutoring), or maybe even Craigslist. Depending on what your day job is, what your teaching experience is, and what subjects you are tutoring, you could probably charge a minimum of $40/hr/child. Doing it yourself is more lucrative, but if it is too difficult to find students, there are also tutoring centers that will hire (e.g., SCORE!).
Babysitting could also be an option — could list yourself on sittercity or something.
River Song
Even though your experience is with a community college, I would branch out and try additional colleges and universities. Depending on your field, there is usually always a need for adjuncts. Now, how well you are treated/paid as an adjunct varies (I’ve had two adjunct experiences: great and terrible). Good luck!
Herbie
Hi fellow corporettes – saw this video tonight on women’s bodies and motherhood and of course thought of this community. Hope you all enjoy. (Link to follow.)
Herbie
Hi all, saw this tonight re motherhood and our changing bodies & thought of this community. Hope you all enjoy. youtube dot com/watch?v=kfOBGQpG9fA&feature=youtu.be
mamabear
Beautiful. Thank you. I particularly love the piano music by Satie.
Kitty
Reposting this threadjack since it was pretty late in the thread yesterday:
I had a baby last year and took maternity leave (1 yr unpaid) and have been back at work now for about 6 months on a 3 day a week basis.
Basically I just don’t feel as on top of things as I used to. I’m a consultant engineer and it’s like I’ve lost my ability to focus. I feel easily distracted, and my memory just doesn’t seem to pull up things as well as it used to do. I was always that persons who could recall what was decided at a meeting six months ago without needing to refer to the minutes. Now sometimes I find myself fumbling for a word.
I’m sure lack of sleep sometimes is part of it but I’m just frustrated I don’t feel as “sharp” as I used to at a time when I feel under special pressure to perform at my best so my career doesn’t take a bigger hit than it already has.
Any suggested strategies? Ideas? Has anyone else dealt with this? I’m trying to up my use of to do lists, outlook reminders and so forth but I just wondered if anyone had any other suggestions or had experienced anything similar.
TCFKAG
Unfortunately, you’re really late in the thread again (these weekend open threads get out of control quick). I think that you can’t possibly be alone in this. I remember when I was a kid, my mom had a mug that said “Whatever women do, they have to do twice as well as men to be considered half as good.” I think unfortunately, frequently in the first year or two when women come back from their maternity leave, they have to work twice as hard to “prove” that they are committed to their career.
For day to day things, I’ve found success with the system that involves setting specific timed work goals (like I’ll work for x time and then have x times for break). Then for longer term goals and specific work tasks, I’d suggest perhaps trying to set yourself a series of ten goals over time at work, to increase your productivity and focus. And really try to be completely present at work when you’re there and then completely present at home when you’re there (if you can, put away the computer and the blackberry and don’t check work e-mail until you go back in the next morning!) Perhaps also meet with a work mentor and talk about where you actually want your career to go, sometimes these meetings can help refocus us on our goals and get us re-motivated (also, finding time to go to networking events…especially women oriented ones sometimes have the same effect.)
I haven’t had a baby, but I have had to come back to work after serious medical issues and I’m currently trying to stay focused on a job despite it being unfulfilling and these are some of the strategies I’ve used.
TCFKAG
Oops, I have no idea why my “website” linked to g-mail — but at least it doesn’t get you INTO my personal e-mail. LOL.
Kitty
Thanks – I appreciate your response. I think perhaps I do need a work mentor – it’s currently a little tricky in my company as we are a satellite office with only a few local staff of which I am the only female so I might have to look a bit further.
River Song
It sounds like we have a similar situation. Just last night, I made a list of things I feel like I need to do to get “me” back. Personally, I think it’s about balance: a balance between my child, my husband, my work, and me–and I’ve realized that I need to build relaxing time into my schedule (and stick to it, or it will never happen). Make sure you are taking care of yourself. Can you use one hour weekly of babysitting time to do something just for you–go to a coffee shop and read a book for pleasure, take a bath, see a friend? Exercise may also help you clear your mind and feel better, and that’s something you can do with your toddler (run/walk with a stroller or go for a bike ride). Motherhood is so hard! And you are in no way alone in these feelings.
anon
I work for a small company in a very casual office environment. My two bosses are married to one another, and workdays are full of lots of banter. They are in general a super-egalitarian couple, and I get the impression that they split responsibilities at home and at work very well. However! My male boss has a tendency to toss around the word “b*tch” when the level of banter gets a little bit too sassy. As in, during the course of a joking conversation, his wife or I will say something funny, and his response will be to laugh, and say, “manipulative b*tch!” This happens once every few weeks, and obviously, I hate it. He seems aware that this is an inappropriate thing to say, because he often will let the phrase trail off before he says it all, but it has happened enough times that I don’t think it will stop on its own. I’ve tried dialing down the joking in order to prevent the situation from ever arising in the first place, but then my super-serious demeanor really stands out in the office.
So, hive, please help me out: What’s the best way to tactfully tell my boss I’d rather he not call me a b*tch? Ugh.
M-C
Is he calling you a bitch or his wife? If it’s you, just say “I don’t like being called a bitch” and leave it at that. If it’s his wife, just butt out.
Anne Shirley
You don’t have to be tactful when someone calls you a bitch! “hey bitch” “don’t call me a bitch!”
eek
Reminds me of Top Chef when Dave says “I’m not your b*tch, b*tch!”
http://tinyurl.com/7d9y35k
A to Z
I have another interviewing question. As the primary breadwinner for a family of four and as a women, what are your thoughts on letting this information slip into the interview process? The reason for doing this would be to let the interviewer know that I have a family to support. In the old days, I believe that men who had a family to support were viewed to be more in need of a job than others and especially more in need of a job than women, who were perceived as taking jobs from men who had a family to support. Has the world changed sufficiently that now a woman with a family to support has an edge over those who don’t? I know I am going to hear from all of the women who have no kids or no family to support that this thinking would be unfair to them. I know the reaction that a job is a job and either you are qualified for it or you are not, etc., but would it be really so bad to slip this in if it is in fact your situation? When I interviewed for my most recent job, I let it be known during the interview that I had a family to support. I also repeatedly reminded my employer of this fact. I don’t think it helped me to get the job or to keep it, but I think it was a subtle reminder that I wasn’t just a woman working for the fun of it and of how dependant four people were on that job. Also, do men do this kind of thing still? Do the let it be known during the interview and thereafter how important the job is to their family? If men do it, it should be alright for women to do it too, right? I am thinking of simply saying that the job is very important to me because I have a family to support. Maybe single working mothers do this too? O.k. Let me know your thoughts.
Em
I’ve seen single mothers do this and be discriminated against because the employer assumes their attention will be split. Wrong, not okay, not legal, but it happens. Might it happen with married mothers too? Even if they say they’re the bread winner? Probably, honestly. The world is still a sexist place.
Personally, sexism aside, if I was interviewing someone who tried to make it sound like she needed this job more than the other candidates (for whatever reason) rather than making an argument about how she was a better fit, I’d roll my eyes and downgrade her. Very few of us have trust funds and are working for fun; the rest of us need the job, for any combinations of unique and persuasive reasons and it’s just not that relevant to an interviewer what yours are.
M-C
Totally agree with Em’s second paragraph..
WLC
It seems like its the norm to have two working parents just to keep families going – so I’m not sure the logic behind OP’s concerns are validated – even if your partner worked, you may still need to earn another salary. I am fairly fresh out of law school but in all the interviews I’ve had I’ve never ever felt like I needed to justify why I needed the money because of my gender. I know that gender discrimination is not gone completely, but we are not living in 1950 anymore. Employers want someone who is going to get the job done, and done well, period.
A to Z
O.k. A couple more comments in response to what is already posted. First, a stay at home dad would imply that your attention is not as divided. For example, in my last job, travel was required. During the interview travel was discussed, and it was no problem for me because there was a stay at home dad. This would not have been possible if we were both working. Second, many husbands are stay home dads because they were laid off, or their industries were illiminated. This has put a huge financial strain on many families, such as mine. So although we really need the two incomes, we don’t have them, making us much more vulnerable. Finally, this kind of thing comes up all of the time anyway, in my experience, because many jobs do not offer benefits, as in “I can’t accept the job as presented because I need benefits.” The obvious implication is that no spouse has a job that provides benefits. O.k., just some further thoughts. Please continue to discuss.
TCFKAG
I still think you need to avoid making it sound like you need the job “more” or you are trying to somehow reverse the 50’s “I’m the primary breadwinner” argument. I just can’t see it coming off well. I think if, in concrete ways, it comes up in the interview — like you are discussing travel and you can say “I can travel” or if you get to the salary negotiation stage and they ask you about benefits you can say “I need benefits because I do not have an alternative source.”
But the reality is, I’d be really hesitant about letting it sound as though you’re carrying the burden of a family of four into the job. Both because it may turn off some interviewers (everyone “needs” the job financially, whether they have a spouse working or not), but also because of the implicit assumptions we discussed earlier in the thread or yesterday (sorry, can’t remember). People assume, rightfully or wrongfully, that women bear more of the child-care burden. They are going to worry if you sound like you have this burdensome family-life AND financial burdens AND etc. etc. etc. Just don’t give them the ammunition, focus on why you’re most qualified.
At least, that my humble opinion.
Bluejay
Completely agree with the second paragraph. When I interview someone, I don’t care why the candidate needs a job. I care about making sure the candidate is the best fit for the position. Focus your comments on why you’re the best candidate for the position, not why the job is the best job for you. It’s fine to mention your family if it’s relevant (e.g. if the interviewer mentions that the firm has on-site daycare, you could say that that would be great for your toddler), but don’t bring it up ad hominem.
A to Z
That’s great, and you are obviously a woman. But do men think this way, especially men of a certain age? Do some men still have the old school attitude that women are taking jobs from men who really need them, or is that generation gone? If they are still around, doesn’t this trump that attitude to the extent it still exists? Also, women have worked so hard to be able to be the breadwinner and perhaps have a man stay home with the kids. Shouldn’t they reap the benefit of what used to be the job preference for men? Also, many of the male lawyers I know, especially of a certain age, have a wife that takes care of everything for them. They can relate to the pressures of supporting a family and may empathize with a woman in the same boat. So I am not asking this question so much from the perspective of a female interviewer, but from the perspective of an older male interviewer. Thoughts?
Bluejay
I don’t think anyone has the attitude that women are taking jobs from men who need them. As for your question about whether women should “reap the benefit” of former discriminatory preferences in favor of men, no, that would be both illegal and wrong.
cbackson
I think that even an older male interviewer’s primary concern is not how much you need the job, but whether or not you’re a good fit for it. Emphasizing your family’s dependence on you is, I think, to your detriment not your benefit – even if you were a male candidate, I think that an interviewer who hears “desperate sole supporter of four children and a spouse” would be thinking about your stressful home life. You don’t want an interviewer thinking about that; it makes them suspect that you’ll be less focused. All you want them thinking about is how great you’d be for the job.
Jenna Rink
I would think that any older man with the attitude that “women are taking jobs from men who really need them” probably has a number of out of date, sexist viewpoints and is not going to be impressed by a family in which the woman is the sole breadwinner.
Em
Except that back when family wages for men were common practice, there actually were women who were the sole support for their families (as there has been for all of human history). And those women did not get the family wages the men got. The reason they didn’t was because the system was not “looking out for families”; it was sexist.
Older male interviewers who are so entrenched in that old system as to think men supporting families should get higher wages are – sorry to say – still likely to be sexist. Might you get lucky and get someone who has twisted that old system in his mind in such a way as to think you deserve the job more than a woman who doesn’t support a family by herself? Maybe, but it’d be luck – there’s not a social phenomenon you can rely on to get it.
Herbie
If there is a part of the conversation where it’s natural to discuss kids, I think that’s okay. For example, if you go out to dinner or drinks as part of your interview process, and someone else mentions their kids. But that’s just making conversation in a more casual context… I really don’t see kids/family obligations coming up in a formal interview, and it would be unnatural/awkward to try to force it.
Otherwise, I disagree with “needing” a job more because you have a husband/children to support and other candidates may not. Moreover, as others pointed out, your status as a parent/breadwinner is likely wholly irrelevant to whether you’re qualified and the best candidate for the job. Focus on your qualifications and showing that you’re a good fit for this company’s culture, and leave the family out of it.
Finally, I always thought family played more into promotion/firing decisions than it did hiring in the first place.
Oh.so.tired
Questions for Paula’s Choice Users:
Which products do you ya’all use and what results have you had? Im thinking about buying some products but there are so many options and I have never taken good care of my skin so this is all new to me. Btw, I’m 24 with very occassional breakouts, combination skins, fair skin and mild redness around the nose.
Signed,
Gal Who Uses Bar Soap as Facial Cleanser
Bluejay
I use the Skin Balancing line, and it’s amazing. I used to get terrible acne, and now I only get the occasional hormonal pimple. I first tried the Clear anti-acne line but it was too harsh on my sensitive skin. I think from what you describe, the Skin Balancing line would be right for you. i don’t use the entire line; I use the cleanser, toner, exfoliant and antioxidant, but I use a Clinique sunscreen/moisturizer and eye cream that I already used before starting on Paula’s Choice.
Eversave dot com had a voucher for Paula’s Choice (for Washington DC – not sure about other cities). Not sure if they still have it but it was a pretty good deal – $15 for $30 worth of products.
Anon
I was inspired to try Paula’s Choice from all the recs on here, too. My skincare routine was not much better than yours – I just used a drugstore cleanser on my face and moisturized.
I was not about to overwhelm myself with an entire 5-step routine off the bat, so I just purchased the hydralite one-step face cleanser for normal-to-oily/combination skin and the BHA 1% lotion/exfoliant. My routines now are as follows:
Morning: use the cleanser in shower, moisturize with my normal Olay moisturizer (sunscreen when necessary – I know, I know, it should be every day). Evening: wash with the cleanser, follow with the exfoliant, then the Olay moisturizer. I’ve been really, really happy with these products / this routine so far. When I place my next order (still several months away, at least), I may consider adding an additional step like a toner or serum (I ordered a couple of the free samples when I placed my first order, just out of curiosity).
Delenn
Ladies, this study from the UK might be helpful or interesting for those of you in biglaw:
Women and people from ethnic minorities have to employ special strategies to overcome institutional discrimination when working in large law firms.
http://www.legalservicesboard.org.uk/what_we_do/Research/Publications/pdf/lsb_diversity_in_the_legal_profession_final_rev.pdf
Amy
Hi there, longtime reader, first-time commenter here. I have a question about storing clothes.
I am a new mom who has decided to work for a friend who runs a marketing consultancy firm out of her home rather than go back to my corporate job. I’ll either be working out of my home, or hers, with some infrequent client meetings (she’ll handle most of them, and most of her clients aren’t local). I need a few basic business-casual/business-formal outfits, but for the most part, I’ll be able to work in jeans or yoga pants almost every day. I am unsure what to do with my business wardrobe. I don’t want to get rid of it, because I do anticipate going back to a more-formal job at some point. But I don’t know when that will be, and since I had a job where I had to wear a suit or a jacket every day, I have a LOT of formal clothes (I was kind of a shopper, for awhile) in a small apartment that has gotten a lot smaller, seemingly, since my daughter was born. I really don’t need to be wrestling past my old suits when I’m trying to get the stroller out of the hall closet.
Does anyone have any recommendations on how to store my business clothes? Should I look at storage at a facility or dry cleaners? (I’m a little concerned about cost, with that.) Or can I just pack things carefully in a couple of storage tubs and put it in our building’s storage area, which is climate-controlled and guaranteed to be dry?
Not sure
Amy, I responded below.
onna
Clean everything first and let anything dry cleaned air out (no plastic covering) and then pack into breathable fabric containers. They’ll be fine.
http://www.thelaundress.com/LaundryTips/Storage.asp
M-C
Before you pack everything away, if you were kind of a shopper I’d seriously take a look at what you have. If it may be a couple years before you get back into a more formal job situation, you should probably get rid of everything you aren’t likely to use again. Pregnancy (and working at home tete a tete with the fridge :-)) has a way of doing things to your weight, so who knows what you’ll be like when you’re going back to an office. And whatever seems really fashionable now probably will look horribly dated in a couple years. If I were you I’d pick out your best-quality, most classic clothes, enough for a couple weeks say, and ditch the rest. At least now you could get some money for it at the local consignment shop..
Ruby
Wardrobe question. Situation: panel interview Monday for big internal promotional opportunity. Constraint: 7.5 mo pregnant. Most of maternity clothes no longer fit including the black maternity blazer. Get super hot in most outfits so must take that into account. Large company, management position, know half the panel.
Options:
Decent looking synthetic blouse with pattern, or plain colored cotton one, with black pants that look like trash bag material. The pants fall down when walking. (no other pants work now at all)
Dresses with blazers: I have one nice cream colored maternity blazer that fits. It doesn’t look great with black. I have lots of other blazers that just can’t close in middle in conservative colors. Will probably need to remove blazer per being hot.
The dresses that fit: lovely silk black/white flower pattern, slightly flarey at bottom. Works with cream blazer but not a serious business look.
Black wrap dress- fits well, but not overly businesslike. Goes with black/white pinpoint open blazer.
Print dress black/white- ugly synthetic short sleeve dress that looks like a low-end store piece. Fits great though and comfortable. Can layer black blazer open.
No option is ideal… would love feedback! I will attend to hair/makeup and maybe wear a distracting scarf. People understand, it’s just not my typical interview attire so annoying. Mostly, need to prep and physically rest so can get through it without muscle pains/exhaustion.
F in LA
Vote for the black wrap – if you’ll be taking off your blazer, this seems the best among the three.
celine
Had to do a major briefing of a government official 8.5 months pregnant with my third child. All I fit into was a horrid lavender linen look suit, and I was too uncomfortable to wear shoes that weren’t birkenstocks. It wasn’t a good look — I did it by making jokes about how I looked and how much I was looking forward to getting back into business suits — said even a buttoned up shirt would seem comfortable after the pregnancy gig. It worked pretty well, they all laughed and the briefing went great.
ILB
Agree that the black wrap dress + open blazer sounds best. It sounds the most neutral / won’t call attention to your wardrobe.
Bluejay
I’d wear a dress with the black maternity blazer that doesn’t quite close. I assume it comes closer to closing than your non-maternity blazers do, and as such it won’t be so obvious it doesn’t fit. If your non-maternity blazers don’t look obviously too small then that would be fine too if you prefer a color other than black. I wouldn’t wear the cream blazer unless it matches the rest of your outfit.
I’d wear a dress, and since you’ll probably take off the blazer, don’t go for a sleeveless dress. Since you know half the panel, presumably they’ll understand why you’re somewhat dressed down, but I think it’s a good idea to make some sort of funny comment about how this is the closest thing to a suit you could make out of your maternity wear, because sometimes people can be utterly clueless and might ding you for not wearing a suit.
Ruby
Thanks all! Sounds like the black wrap dress (plus slip) plus open black/white pinpoint pattern blazer. Will try it all on today. May try low heels though have been in flats since October. The blouses with pants are better than the other dresses too but the patterns just aren’t something I’d normally wear.
Amazingly, the black maternity blazer is too small in the shoulders now- incredible. The cream one is so nice, but just does not match these dresses.
It is good that I know the decision-makers already.
Blonde Lawyer
Any chance you could go buy a maternity suit that fits today so that you will feel professional and fabulous at your interview? I’m sure others will be understanding no matter what you wear but it sounds like you are doubting how you will look and that lack of confidence may come through in how you speak and present yourself. It could be money well spent to buy something for the interview and re-sell or donate it after.
Ruby
Ha. That’s the challenge- I am literally out of the sizes. I am really petite with a larger-than-life belly so bigger sizes don’t work, and smaller sizes don’t work, even in maternity. Thanks though. Evidence: was at physical therapist Friday for pain management- she asked three times if I was sure I wasn’t due til June, and wasn’t having twins. It was irritating and started becoming insulting- no, lady, told you the first time- but you get the idea. I am not proportional! Separates (bottoms) just don’t work.
Though- I did get some weird suspenders that hold pants to bra, so my one pair of salvageable pants are back.
And I tried on the black dress plus gray-ish blazer- it actually looks pretty good all things considered. Everyone was right. Heading out shortly to check consignment shop up my block for a fabulous silk scarf in blue or something nice and appropriate. I have a few that work but could use a refresher piece.
It won’t affect confidence- I actually find it visually entertaining- just wasn’t sure which ensemble was best choice and this feedback really helped! Ideally I’d have someone other than spouse over to see the actual fit/results of a few… but busy prepping my actual content for the interview, and resting up so I won’t be too tired:) Also the others aren’t lawyers by background as I am, so they are less formal generally. And most already aware I am late-preg.
Blonde Lawyer
Ruby, good luck today!!
Ruby
Hey, thanks!! That was nice to wake up to over coffee just now!
Will do best, all you can do… was a long day of organizing thoughts/materials Sunday, struck down by swelling for a few hours so had to rest… going to telecommute to my earlier meetings to minimize chances of spasming pain and swelling (usually kicks in right at interview time, joy) so half the battle will be physical. I’m pretty good normally at these things but definitely not in a normal state. Decided to say at outset I’ll need a quick break halfway through, may need to pause when speaking, etc., both to reduce my strain and anticipation of strain (peeing, out of breath, hot, need to get leg blood flow going, no back support in there…), and it’s actually a technique that shows confidence/equal control of situation if done right. Again appreciate the good wishes!
ps don’t know if you’ve ever shopped for maternity suits but let’s just say that market leaves a lot to be desired. Given the awful make of most of it, I’ve found that ‘real’ blazers unbuttoned often look better. I got a few bigger than normal ones second hand early on and it’s amazing, they now fit like a glove and don’t gape open, the one for today lays flat on each side of belly. Even if the black mat jacket still fit well, it honestly looks like a stitched together trash bag! I never realized what a fabric/fit snob I’d become:) Luckily this isn’t much of an issue since I know the people and I am more formal than most anyway (manufacturing company). Eg- they know I briefed a visiting White House official visiting west coast last week and the official said good things about me Friday. So less stressful than a new org situation. Nonetheless it is a haul and an operation at a tough time physically, but such a good opportunity! Realize just totally rambled here. Signing off.
caesia
I’d love other perspectives on a situation I’m facing.
I dragged my husband to a remote location for a great job opportunity 7 years ago. We love it here but he’s made some career sacrifices. We both want new jobs now (but we’re not desperate) which means we’d had to move somewhere else since the opportunities are extremely limited where we are now.
I have an offer for a fantastic job that is about 1000 miles away. We like the location and it’s a bigger city with more future opportunities for both of us. Although we don’t really know anyone there and it puts us further away from both of our families (which we’re ok with). He’s got a few leads that are directly relevant to where he wants his career to go, but nothing has panned out yet. The company that made me an offer has been trying to help (but can’t guarantee anything) and has already given us a long time to get all the pieces into place. And now we have to make a final decision by Monday.
Has anyone ever achieved the “move to a new location that you love with 2 good if not ideal jobs lined up” so the decision sort of makes itself? Not sure if life ever works out that cleanly, even though that’s what we were hoping for. If we turn down this opportunity, I’m not sure if it’s realistic to hope that everything would work out the next time around. Said another way, we could be back in this same position again with one job lined up and needing to decide.
When it’s been one person’s career leading, what tips the scales for deciding to jump to a new opportunity? Money isn’t an issue and we have the flexibility for me to start and him to stay in his job for a bit longer if needed. But I’ve already made him do this before, and I don’t want him to hate me if his career struggles for a bit. On the other hand, what I do is much more specific which means fewer job opportunities and this new city would offer a big upside for having a choice of companies/jobs in the long term.
Anyone else been through this before? I’m a consultant not a lawyer in case that matters and there’s a pretty amazing relocation package that goes with this job. (If we do go through with it, I’ll be back here asking for your advice on how to uproot and move 2 cats that hate being in a car for a 1000 mile trip. Ugh.)
Thanks!
Jenna Rink
My advice would be to really talk this through with your husband. Give him every opportunity to say no. My husband tends to be really supportive immediately, and then start thinking about the downside for himself later. Think about the worst case scenario – if he doesn’t find a job in 6 months will he blame you? But also weigh the best case scenario. It sounds like the new city would be a big positive for his career based on the variety of opportunities. This is such a tough decision, I hope you come to a conclusion you are both happy with!
Liana
Very late chiming in, but hits close to home so I wanted to respond anyway.
Sounds exciting but tough. Similar situation with my husband, except nothing panned out for him in New City B and we couldn’t afford for him to be out of work for an extended period of time. (Frankly, not just for the money — I want him to be happy and satisfied in his life too, and part of that for him means feeling good about his work). Our temporary solution is doing long-distance (we’re only about 350 miles apart) for the time being. During this time, I’m focused on career advancement and he’s working on career opportunities that will work in City B.
Great advice from Jenna to talk about it and talk again and again. Make sure you both talk through the different permutations and understand what the pluses and minuses are for each of you.
caesia
Thanks for the input – I really appreciate it. We have been really talking about the immediate and longer term implications (for a long time) for both of us – so the dialogue is definitely there. He keeps telling me that what I decide is fine with him, which isn’t how I want to handle this. I think he’s a bit more conservative (and passive?) about big changes but ends up embracing them later. I’ve tried to frame it as the decision is his to make since of course I want to do it.
Liana, how did you deal with telling people in your situation? I’m worried that even if we commit to doing this, the hassle of explaining to people what’s going on (moving for my job, he’s still searching, etc.) is going to add an extra level of strain, stress, and awkwardness. We’re both pretty private so I can see it being really annoying.
(Argh, it was so much easier to make these leaps of faith on my own. I’m fine with dealing with all the consequences – I hate putting them on someone else!)
M-C
It may still be morning there so I’ll chime in anyway :-). Basically, I don’t know hardly anyone where both jobs at once have come through at the same time. So don’t fret about the timing, just be happy you’ve found one.
However, considering the current job picture, you may want to consider having your husband hang on to his job for a bit while he keeps looking, even if it means a few months of expensive airplane travel. One is in a much better position to get hired when already employed.. You can put a firm deadline on it if you feel uncomfortable at the thought of a temporary separation, like 3 or 6 months. But it sounds like it may not be necessary.
You should also consider that if starting a new job you may be totally snowed under with the workload for a bit. So sparing him the putting up with you may be doing him a favor :-).
Not sure
I think the laundress website has some tips on this. If I recall correctly, it explains how to pack your suits and other nice clothes away. (I think you could put them in your building’s storage area).
Not sure
Gah! That was for Amy.
ILB
Hi Corporettes,
I’m usually just a lurker here, but I’m in need of advice, and I trust this community to tell it to me straight.
I’m a grad student taking time off from school to intern at a great company in my desired field. I’ve been interning for 2.5 months, and I absolutely love it — the work is fun and challenging, and the people are smart and nice.
When I took the internship, I negotiated a little on salary, getting $5 more per hour than their initial offer, plus a $1000 moving bonus. I was fairly satisfied, although I realized soon after that I should have pushed for more on the hourly salary. Still, I figured, it’s a great learning experience, and it’s fine for 6 months (the duration of the internship).
Yesterday, I found out that another student from my school, with a very similar background, is starting an internship with the same company this summer. Here’s the kicker — she’s getting paid much more than I am. She negotiated harder, and they gave her more as a result.
I’m frustrated with myself for not pushing harder when I had the chance. My feeling here is that I missed my opportunity, and to bring it up now would seem unprofessional. Is my feeling right? Is there any way I could ask for more at this point? It would, of course, be tremendously helpful to me to have a higher salary, with student loans, etc.
I really like this company and would be happy to work there after graduating. I know that they really like me, too. They are going through a period of growth where they really need to bring on new people to keep up with client work, but are having trouble finding people who are good at what we do and a good cultural fit. My boss has told me that I’m both, that she’s thrilled I’m working with them for six months, and (implied) that I’ll be likely to get an offer from them after graduating. I think this is my only leverage for a current salary re-negotiation.
What do you think, Corporettes? Is it worth asking for more at this point? Or am I correct in thinking that I should suck it up and take it as a lesson to push harder in future salary negotiations?
Anonymous
Unfortunately you have to suck this up to a life lesson since its a short-term internship. Kick butt in the internship and hope for an offer and negotiate hard
Bluejay
Agree.
M-C
Agreed too. You missed this boat, so chalk it up to experience. But be sure you don’t get snarky about it, either to the company or to the other intern – it’s still a good opportunity :-).
celine
my bad luck to be at the bottom of the weekend posts, but i have this PRESSING question about being a fairly high powered litigator and needing to dress in a conservative court or other very serious situation in a year when NO ONE is making suits. really, what are we supposed to wear? i do have a closet of lafayette suits, nice, conservative, and boring, but, ahem, due to working to much and working out not enough, i find myself in need of a slightly more roomy waistband and as i set out to buy a few new things, i would prefer something that is traditional enough to pass the conservative test, but not hopelessly boring (or too young). what brands/stores should i be looking at?
Anon
I love Tahari and Theory suits, and you can get them much cheaper at an outlet. Jcrew also makes decent suits. All of these are conservative, and not too young. Although I suppose they are all generally a bit “boring” in color/cut.
Bluejay
Ann Taylor always has good suits. I also like Tahari ASL suits, which I buy at Macy’s.
sadie
Talbots!
Maddie Ross
Second this. Also consider myself to be a high-powered litigator and am in courts where I need to wear a skirt and hose as a female generally. I’ve been really happy with Talbots (but then again, I truly do not mind the unlined pants thing…) And I’m in my early 30s and do not think they “date” me — I think they are pretty traditional, but youthful.
Suits
Well, having just spent the last four months laboriously mail ordering and returning suit after suit… here’s what I have to say:
I ended up with the Brooks Brothers stretch pinstripe skirt suit in navy (Item # WJ00020 and Item # WX00061 ). These pieces are still available in the sale section of the site in many sizes. I don’t know what is wrong with BB’s marketing, but the clothes look much better in real life than they do on the website. I am tall (5’9″) and the skirt hits at the top of my knee. The jacket is a flattering slim cut and doesn’t look as long on me as it does on the model. Also, the pinstripe is subtle, whereas when you zoom in on the photo, it looks kind of garish to my eye. Overall, it’s a nice classic suit and doesn’t look too matronly or trendy imo.
If the Brooks Brothers suit didn’t work out, I was prepared to drop the big bucks and get the current BOSS Black skirt suit which only comes in grey (I tried it on in-store). For me, the grey was a little lighter than I would like, but I was getting desperate, and the cut was beautiful on me. Classic and traditional. It’s available on the Nordstrom website (item #522037 and item #522048).
During my fun (not) quest, I also purchased and returned: J.Crew Super 120s navy pinstripe skirt suit (none of the pieces fit me well; the fabric is beautiful though); Club Monaco wool suit (very meh… it only comes in black or light grey, fabric seemed kind of cheap); Elie Tahari Seaway Summer Sharkskin suit (jacket didn’t fit me and the fabric was a bit too shiny for me, also didn’t like the drape of the fabric on the skirt– shiny + super delicate fabric = unflattering).
Hope this helps!
Court Suits
This. Only certain manufacturers make court appropriate suits (traditional tailoring, pockets in the jacket, skirt, high quality fabric and construction). Brooks Brothers is the classic. Unfortuntely, they come around rarely and you have to always be on the lookout and acquire them slowly whenever they appear. Luckily, these kind of suits are constructed to last, so once you find them, buy two and enjoy them while you continue the search. In other words, you have to keep slogging through it. Another lesson learned: when you find yourself in a city with a large population of professional career women, visit the Brooks Brother, the Saks, the Macy’s and the Bloomingdales because those particular stores will have more appropriate court suits than their counterparts in other towns.
I don’t think this is what Gloria Steinem (or whoever) meant when she said “constant vigilence is the price we pay for independence,” but it also applies here.
ILB
Sorry for the (potential) double post — last comment got stuck in moderation.
Hi Corporettes,
I’m usually just a lurker here, but I’m in need of advice, and I trust this community to tell it to me straight.
I’m a grad student taking time off from school to intern at a great company in my desired field. I’ve been interning for 2.5 months, and I absolutely love it — the work is fun and challenging, and the people are smart and nice.
When I took the internship, I negotiated a little on salary, getting $5 more per hour than their initial offer, plus a $1000 moving bonus. I was fairly satisfied, although I realized soon after that I should have pushed for more on the hourly salary. Still, I figured, it’s a great learning experience, and it’s fine for 6 months (the duration of the internship).
Yesterday, I found out that another student from my school, with a very similar background, is starting an internship with the same company this summer. Here’s the kicker — she’s getting paid much more than I am. She negotiated harder, and they gave her more as a result.
I’m frustrated with myself for not pushing harder when I had the chance. My feeling here is that I missed my opportunity, and to bring it up now would seem unprofessional. Is my feeling right? Is there any way I could ask for more at this point? It would, of course, be tremendously helpful to me to have a higher salary, with student loans, etc.
I really like this company and would be happy to work there after graduating. I know that they really like me, too. They are going through a period of growth where they really need to bring on new people to keep up with client work, but are having trouble finding people who are good at what we do and a good cultural fit. My boss has told me that I’m both, that she’s thrilled I’m working with them for six months, and (implied) that I’ll be likely to get an offer from them after graduating. I think this is my only leverage for a current salary re-negotiation.
What do you think, Corporettes? Is it worth asking for more at this point? Or am I correct in thinking that I should suck it up and take it as a lesson to push harder in future salary negotiations?
F in LA
How much longer are you working there? It seems worth it to ask for more!
AIMS
I would probably leave this be. Since you’re there for a term, and not the duration. But depending on the field, if you do decide to say something perhaps you can frame it not as a raise but as an end bonus? Or maybe you could ask them for another $1000 to move back?
Really, though I am sure it’s frustrating, try to think of this as a great life lesson.
Ruby
for your enjoyment.. here’s a hilarious example of a retail marketing description of ‘work to weekend’ wear- check it out to see why so funny. not in my office!
I came across it through a facebook post- I’m acquainted with the model. She is stunningly pretty in person, with a body that is hard to believe (full in right places, shapely/toned), and a professional dancer that is so fun and sexy to watch I always feel bad for staring (I know her from my social salsa dancing crowd). I am glad there are those people who aren’t stuffily dressed lawyers and make the world a more visually appealing and more sensual place. (not that we can’t too but you know what I mean..) Amazingly, my friend is partnering with her for a dance competition- and his wife of 25 yrs, also a dancer, is fine with it- she didn’t want to have to do all the practices. I’d have to think on that one personally were it me:)
http://fabulousonadime.com/tops-1/navy-blue-short-sleeve-sheer-blouse.html
so anonymous
Am I the most cynical person in the world? I’m watching House Hunters, and, upon seeing a couple with obviously different goals, mentally fast forward to my own version of the ending: “They got divorced and each was able to live in the house he and she wanted.”
eek
I feel that way about most of the couples on house hunters; I don’t watch regularly, but I watch often enough and my general feeling is many of the couples are out of sync/don’t particularly enjoy each other. And then I wonder if they are on their best behavior for the camera (yikes, if they are) or if the producers ask certain questions so it seems that way + creative editing.
KK
I think part of it is scripted to that each one has different pros/cons to articulate,but even then there are definitely some that are more in sync than others.
Mostly I can’t watch it because the episodes in low cost of living areas make me so frustrated with my own housing search in a high COL area.
Coalea
Did they repeal the “leggings aren’t pants” rule and forget to tell me? Because I was just at the mall and in the course of 30 minutes, I saw at least half a dozen women and girls wearing leggings in lieu of pants. I was so so close to chastising one girl, but then I looked at my own outfit and realized that I wasn’t really in a position to offer fashion advice.
so anonymous
That’s hilarious! I recently moved to a part of the country where leggings and Uggs are high fashion. Also caked-on, Kardashian-style make-up. So I avoid the mall.
Anonylicious
I saw one girl a couple of months ago who was wearing tights as pants. They weren’t even leggings! Her shirt didn’t even cover her butt, either. Luckily, her underwear did. As I saw, through her tights. Which were. Not. Pants.
So now, when I see someone wearing leggings as pants (and I live in a college town, so that’s pretty often), I think, “at least they aren’t tights.” It is a sad, sad world we live in.
Bluejay
i saw an intern at my office wearing a tunic with sheer control top pantyhose and heels. I know they were control top because I could see the control top. My jaw literally dropped – she really looked like she just forgot to put on her skirt.
Coalea
Yowza! I think that my biggest issue with ladies who choose to forgo “real” pants is that so many of them do not pay attention to whether or not crucial body parts (e.g., butt, abdomen) are covered with a top.
I also have noticed that many leggings-wearers tend to be larger. As a plus-size woman myself, I can understand the allure of the elastic waist and stretchiness; however, I realize that this is not super-flattering, so I look for other alternatives.
MDC
There are leggings made of thicker material that provide reasonable coverage, then there are thin almost sheer leggings that display every crevice, lump, bump, underwear outline etc. The latter are what I have a problem with. When the rear end is uncovered in these leggings which it often is, they make someone look undressed and I find them a little shocking to see in public.
coco
I agree. Leggings that cover you – fine. Leggings where I can see the color of your underwear from a distance – less ok. You can wear whatever you want, but I reserve the right to judge people when I can see their underwear (or at least, want to tell them their underwear is visible in case they are unaware, as I would want someone to tell me).
a.
Sigh. I wear leggings as pants all the time. Not to work, obvs, but seriously–what I wear to the mall/grocery store/walk my dog/stroll around town is my business. Please tell me why you would think it even remotely appropriate to chastise a complete stranger for wearing something that you, personally, do not like? How would you feel if the young, leggings-wearer turned around, gave you a side-eye, and said, “Wow, thank you for the input. Just FYI as long as we’re sharing, your top makes you look like an inverted triangle and you might want to get those brows waxed,” which I can almost guarantee you would be my response if a stranger ever offered an unsolicited critique of my clothes. So I mean, props to you for restraining yourself, but really. Can we hold the judgment.
IVO
So do I, a, so do I. Shirt to the waist and everything, too. I look perfectly respectable and normal (and, well, freaking awesome, too). (Clearly, not yo everyone, but, well, one can never please everyone, of course) I grew up in SE Europe where this was absolutely normal and I’ll be damned if I ever stop doing things (not hurting other people) that I want ot do because of the general public perception.
IVO
Oh, and I would actually quite LOVE IT if a kind person provided me with feedback on the matter. Almost always, I am in a mood appreciative of a good laugh.
Hive Mind
Sorry, leggings aren’t pants and you are in the WRONG for wearing them as such. Stop now. Seriously. The Hive has spoken.
Boo
Even for doing pilates/yoga? Can I walk to pilates in my pilates leggings?
anon
oh hai STFUC
Bluejay
Seriously? Can we keep that kind of language off this board? I don’t care how offended or annoyed you are, it’s never appropriate to call another woman by the C word.
TCFKAG
Really belated but she meant STFU c*rp*r*tt* (probably just used C to avoid moderation.)
anon
Yes definitely what she said. Was trying to call out the un-funny satirist (if we can call her that). But definitely not calling her a C word! Geez.
TCFKAG
I think the “leggings aren’t pants” rule needs some addendums. Because there are yoga pants out there that are almost leggings that are made out of thick enough fabric that people can pretty much wear them as pants.
And also there’s the thing that I really can’t get worked up about what people wear to the mall or to the grocery store. Sure, they’re not the most flattering things in the world out there. But frequently, they look better then those “jeggings” or skinny jeans that ARE pants that people wear with impunity. So meh.
Lilly
Fies anyone share my belief that many of us are married to the same man: The Man Who Knows Everything?
I know my mother thinks she is also married to him. : )
nona
I dated the Guy Who Thought He Knew Everything. He did not, in fact, know everything. :)
mamabear
Unless you’re married to The Man Who Can’t Apologize Until Tomorrow, then no.
eek
I was.
Monday
I dated that dude again and again, until I recognized that that was what I was doing, and stopped. Never going back!
TCFKAG
Ooh, my sister in law is married to him. Luckily, he’s pretty good hearted about it…but sometimes he does get annoying.
(Note…he’s probably most annoying to me because I occasionally fall victim to “The Woman Who Knows Everything” syndrome.)
volunteering as networking
Ladies, where do you all volunteer? I’d like to volunteer (in a non-legal function) but still meet potential contacts.
Tired Squared
I volunteer with one of my county’s animal shelters. I haven’t found potential clients that way since I’m still waiting on bar results, but there are often people who say, “oh, you’re a lawyer? I have this question … ” if that’s what you’re looking for.
eek
I used to volunteer with an animal rescue organization and did really mentally taxing things such as socializing puppies and giving dogs/puppies baths before their adoption events.
coco
Pick a cause that matters to you. Hunger, education, animals, etc. Then research boards of the organizations in that field. Most organizations publicly list their boards, and often their top donors, in Annual Reports. Find an organization that has the types of contacts you would want to get to know and get involved – join a board, offer to host of fundraising event, volunteer, etc.
TCFKAG
I joined the Junior League. There are many social elements and networking opportunities, but I was also matched with a very fulfilling community service project. It is expensive though.
Pissed
Hey ladies, so I’m in this new relationship with a guy I really like (or thought I did). He did something to upset me last night (nothing major but it was something that came off very inconsiderate). Because I’m horrible at relationships and communicating, what is the best way to talk about this? Normally, I would just break up with the guy but I think I like this one and think it’s just a matter of communicating my feelings to him but I guess I don’t really know how to do that. I don’t want to do it in person because I’m afraid I’ll cry and I don’t want him to see me cry (nothing wrong with crying but I don’t want him to see me as weaker). Is via phone ok? Or maybe ask to meet at a Starbucks and talk (think I”m less likely to cry in a public space)? Wait a few days to calm down and then bring it up? After we talk, is it ok to just say I need space for about a week and that we shouldn’t hang out for that time? Sorry I’m just not sure what is normal and the best approach to handle without blowing this up to the point where I get frustrated and just end things. Thanks in advance!
KK
This is hard to answer without knowing how big of deal the thing he did was– I can’t tell if you are reacting appropriately or overreacting.
Either way, phone is fine but in-person is better. I wouldn’t ask him to meet specifically for this purpose unless it is truly a big deal, and it doesn’t sound like it is. For example, if bf forgot to consider you when making plans and you felt left out, calling a meeting to discuss that would be an overreaction. And would lead him to think “is this girl going to call a town hall meeting to discuss our feelings every time I forget to take out the trash?” Some of this is particular to my own relationship, because DH hates talking about anything serious like this and is prone to just shut down. I save “big talk time” for when there is a big fight brewing.
But it’s very important to not do anything until you’ve had some time to cool off and get some perspective. For me, I find that if I wait 24-48 hrs, I’m less angry and more level-headed. It might also help to bounce it off a trusted friend, and see if they think you are overreacting or underreacting. Sometimes you need distance.
M
I am virtually incapable of talking about hurt feelings without crying, and I feel like that detracts from what I want to communicate, so my default for tough conversations is email. You can choose your words carefully and you can say everything you need to say without getting derailed. Sometimes the email is a prologue to an ongoing conversation, but I think it really helps take the emotional charge out of the situation when you have taken the time to sit down and think through what it is that upset you, and it is a better starting point because he knows where you are coming from. I only do email when it’s a big deal, though (i.e. something that other more extroverted women would want to have a sit-down talk about).
If it is a relatively minor infraction, I would find a way to casually bring it up next time you are spending time together or talking on the phone. Don’t attack, just let him know that when x happened you did not like it very much. You said it’s a new relationship, so remember that you are both still getting to know one another and do necessarily know what will upset one another.
AIMS
I think you just say it. Don’t do it over the phone or by email. I wouldn’t do it at a Starbucks. Just pick somewhere relatively private like your house or a park and say something along the lines of, “so the other night, you did X, and it upset me because of Y. Can we just talk about it so we can get past it?”
Pissed
KK, M and AIMS, thanks so much for your advice. I thought I was about to lose it earlier. It’s been almost 24 hours but I’m going to hold off doing anything for another day or so to cool down. And while I have cooled down for most of the day, I just got all pissed thinking about it again. Lol. I don’t think I will email but I did write down all my thoughts as if it were an email and it helped me articulate and pinpoint what made me upset so I will use that as talking points. And as suggested, I’m just going to bring it up the next time we hang out and just talk about it so we can move past it. Until then, I will keep listening to my “I’m better off without him” playlist to calm me down–it reminds me that I could break it off if I wanted to. :) Thanks again!
TCFKAG
This is also extremely belated, but as long as you’re not the type to get into screaming brawls, the car is a great place for these slightly awkward, “I need to talk about my feelings” conversations. Something about not being able to look each other straight in the eye really diffuses the situation and calms everything down.
(But if you’re screamers, don’t do it. Its dangerous.)
LStar
This is too funny to me, because I totally agree re: it being much easier to have slightly awkward conversations in the car, and early on in my relationship with my now-husband definitely would spring somewhat intense conversation topics on him while we were driving. He was always very gracious about it, but I have since learned that he HATES (Ellen-all-caps-style) not being able to look a person in the eye when he is having a serious conversation with them, so it was basically the worst possible situation in which to have these conversations for him (though the best for me). Anyway, just something to keep in mind — YMMV of course!
M-C
If it takes you a whole week to cool down enough to talk, either you should get yourself to a therapist or you should just break up. Most lesser issues can be cooled off about in a day or so. But also I wouldn’t let this fester too much on general grounds: if you take so long to work up to an Official Talk, chances are the poor guy will wonder what the hell you’re up to, and may not even remember what happened or be able to claim not to. I also prefer to cool off before getting into a difficult subject, it makes for more fruitful discussion, but there’s cooling off and then there’s sulking. Make sure you don’t fall into the latter, or you may no longer have a choice about a breakup.
Julie Steinberg
T
Julie Steinberg
Thanks for your help, everyone! Much appreciated.