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Updated: Oct 31, 2018 165 Comments · by

Weekend Open Thread

Weekend Open Thread |

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Vigoss Denim Skirt | CorporetteSomething on your mind? Chat about it here. All of the sudden I want a denim skirt. This hasn't even been on my radar as a trend, and yet it must be — almost every major denim brand has an option right now (and many have lucky sizes only!). I've mentioned before that I like Vigoss denim for trendy but affordable weekend looks, and this skirt looks really cute — casual, distressed, and with a comfortable 2% spandex content. Nice. It's $68 at Nordstrom. Vigoss Denim Skirt (L-3)

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Comments

  1. Navy blazer

    Hi all – does anyone have a recommendation for where I can find a navy blazer that looks both casual and polished? I like some of the ones that are slightly longer length/oversized and looser cut without gold buttons or anything that looks too stuffy, but that is still polished. I’m probably painting a really vague picture, but if anyone has recommendations for where to find this blazer for under $100, that would be great! TIA

  2. Bonnie

    I love denim skirts for weekend wear and am so glad they’re everywhere now.

  3. Anonymous

    What would one wear on top with a denim skirt? the only thing I can ever think of is a v-neck t which seems way too casual for dinner out or casual friday. any suggestions for tops for those occasions to wear with a denim skirt?

    • Anonymous

      The same cute top you’d wear with jeans for a dinner out or casual Friday?

      • Anonymous

        Agreed – I swap a denim skirt for jeans all the time. I didn’t realize they’d gone out of style.

    • Anonymous

      I think denim skirts are pretty casual. If you want to be more dressed-up, I’d wear something else.

    • Blonde Lawyer

      I wore this (but shorter) the day I left on my honeymoon 10 years ago. It may have been from Aero. Going on a 10 year anniversary cruise this year and if I can still squeeze into the thing I might bust it out for nostalgia sake, particularly if it’s on trend again.

  4. Anonymous

    Planning a Sephora trip this weekend–what are your current favorite products? Any new must-tries?

    • SuziStockbroker

      I have a brow kit from them that I love.
      I don’t know the name though, the brow bar professional recommended it to me.

    • anon

      NARS matte multiples – I have Laos and Exuma. Really wonderful, easy to wear cheek and lip color. I was never a believer in non-powder blush until I tried these. And no shimmer so daytime/work appropriate.

    • lawsuited

      I am in love with the Tarte Showstopper travel palette. It’s limited edition, so if you have fair skin and it’s still in stock at your Sephora, pick it up.

      Also the Too Faced Love Flushed blushes! They are very long-wearing and remind me of Polly Pockets.

    • Anonymous

      Skincare:
      SK-II !!!

      Makeup:
      Giorgio Armani foundation (Lasting Silk or Luminous Silk depending on skin type)
      Shiseido translucent compact powder
      YSL Effet Faux Cils Mascara

      Body:
      Clarins Tonic Body Treatment Oil
      Clarins Extra-Firming Body Lotion
      Clarins Extra-Firming Body Creme

    • KinCA

      My “On Repeat” Sephora Purchases:
      Clinique’s Cleansing Oil
      St. Tropez Bronzing Essential Self-Tanning Lotion + Applicator Mitt
      First Aid Beauty Facial Radiance Pads
      Bumble & Bumble Don’t Blow It
      Living Proof Prime Spray
      Hourglass Ambient Lighting Powder & Brush

    • Rogue Banker

      TooFaced Shadow Insurance eye shadow primer is my secret weapon for making things stay put.
      Their house-brand makeup is pretty decent – I like the eyeshadows, their pressed highlighter goes on great with a fluffy brush (speaking of, they make solid brushes too) and I swear by their Fine Line felt-tip eyeliner.
      Sephora recently started carrying one of my favorite Korean brands, TonyMoly – their tangerine-scented hand cream is a good thing, and the Panda’s Dream eye serum stick is the most adorable thing on my skincare shelf.
      I like their perfume selection – my current fave is Versace Bright Crystal.

      Things to skip: Their attempts at sheet masks and sleeping masks are overpriced and under-effective, and Benefit Roller Lash mascara smudges like a mofo.

  5. Anonymous

    I had this skirt from Abercrombie–complete with the unsewn hem–about 10 years ago. Pass.

  6. Bosca

    Any reviews on Bosca products? I’m looking at ordering a leather portfolio but would love some opinions before I pull the trigger.

    • Anonymous

      Excellent, high quality. I have a portfolio, agenda and index card holder that I’ve had for almost twenty years. It’s worn in beautifully and still looks good.

    • AZCPA

      I prefer Levenger for that type of thing (more choices and a price point that I prefer for something that gets used in a hands on way, since it will inevitable show wear.

  7. Career Help?

    Graduated law school 10 yrs ago (top 10 school, top 10% of class) and went to work for an NYC firm in litigation though doing mostly financial restructuring litigation. Slogged away there, got good reviews, bonuses etc. and was always the one who’d work 24-7 and be told things like “you’re working at junior partner level already.” Then at yr 6-7 when I expressed an interest in partnership/coming up w a plan for it (not giving any ultimatums that I MUST be partner or anything), they turned on me and said “what – you – we’d NEVER consider you.” I got pushed out, spent about 14 months unemployed, depressed while I networked, and hating NYC.

    Landed 5 months ago in DC – where I think (thought?) I want to live – as it’s an easier and cheaper life than NYC. Working for a government agency (it’s semi-prestigious but not an AUSA or Enforcement for a big agency), and I ALREADY know it’s not for me. The work is very compliance-ish, which is not what I want. I miss litigation and restructuring and most of all being client facing and being treated like a professional, not just an employee who punches a clock. Yet I don’t think that market exists in DC and if it took 1.5 yrs to get a job last time, what makes me think I’ll be able to get another one?? And what would a firm do with a 10th yr? I’m not looking for biglaw firms (as I don’t want to end up someplace and get pushed out in a yr when they don’t want to make partners), but I don’t want to work for a 1 person firm either. Do I even try? I don’t know if I can just slog through 30+ yrs in the gov’t as my colleagues intend to do – it really is just working for a paycheck and while I’m grateful for said check, I miss doing work that “matters,” even if that meant long hours and stress. How do I even start? Recruiters were a total disaster last time – they only seem to want 4th yrs that they can easily move from one firm to the exact same type of firm down the block – they wouldn’t even return my calls. Ideas?

    • TBK

      I’m sorry, that sucks. I went through something somewhat similar and know how crushing the whole process can feel. While I know exactly what you mean about “punching the clock,” I wouldn’t necessarily rule out government altogether. Some government employees and some offices are very highly motivated by public service and mission. That might not be your thing, but those kinds of motivated, professional offices do exist in government (as well as the punching clock types). Are you dead set on litigation? What about policy work? Also, there are a number of nichey little consulting firms that specialize in semi-legal/semi-political/semi-lobbying work (often headed by a former government bigwig). How much money do you need to make right now? Have you considered going on the Hill? It can be tough to get the right spot, especially as a senior person, and the pay will be less even than you’re making now (I’m assuming you’re in the executive branch and you’re either about a GS 14 or making even more at one of the financial non-GS agencies so even a committee position on the Hill would likely be a pay cut) but the work is important and you definitely get the sense of being a professional, and if you stay for awhile a lot of other door open up. How many people do you know in DC? Are you getting out and networking? If you’re interested, email me at tbk[thissite]@gmail.com and we could meet up. I know people in the area you work in and might be able to help make some introductions.

    • TBK

      Ugh, stuck in moderation I think. Watch for my response — I know what you’re going through and I know people in DC who are in your area of expertise and would be happy to help. Email me at TBK[thissite] at gmail dot com.

    • TBK

      Okay I’ve tried twice to respond to this but both times got stuck in moderation. Please look for my reply whenever it shows up (the moderation thing here has gotten ridiculous).

    • Maddie Ross

      I’m not in DC or NYC, but I don’t think you’re necessarily doomed to do gov’t work you don’t like for the rest of your life. That said, I’m not sure it’ll be a super easy, immediate transition to something either. I think you need to identify first where you think you want to be. You say not DC. Is it back in NYC? A smaller east coast market? West coast? Your original home city/town? Start with that and figure out what you need to do to take the bar/waive in. Then based on the market, figure out what your best angle is. Smaller markets don’t always react well to recruiters, so that may not be your best bet (too expensive to employ and not necessary). It will be harder to break into mid/bigger law as a 10th year, because by that point you should have a book. And being in gov’t, you likely don’t. Can you play up a particular area or skill where you could be useful as an of counsel for the time being where you do business development?

      • Career Help?

        Probably said it wrong — I’m not loving DC (prob bc I hate my job), but I am looking to stay in the area. I definitely don’t want to go back to NYC — higher COL and lower paycheck than what I had in biglaw, so (to me) it isn’t worth it. My home market is much more unstable than NYC and DC so it isn’t worth it.

        My “special skill” for all these yrs was being a litigator who did bankruptcy lit. Not too much use for that now unless I can find that one niche-y place that’s focused on municipal bankruptcy or something (I don’t know that such a place exists and if it does, I doubt in DC).

        Do I even pull at the bankr. string anymore or just bill myself out as a commercial litigator, knowing there’s a million of those and I’m no different than anyone else except I don’t even have a book.

        Also when people say don’t use a recruiter — does that mean you have to know someone at the firm? Or literally send resumes in cold? I realize a recruiter can cost 100-150k, so firms other than biglaw are weary.

        I have to believe that there are decent shops in DC (20-50 people) doing decent litigation/financial lit work, even if they aren’t biglaw and aren’t specifically doing bankr. right now — yet my job process makes me think that no such firms exist and I am stuck for life at age 35.

        • Anonymous

          Fellow bk litigator here. I’ve toyed with the idea of leaving my big law firm, but it’s hard to find a good fit. Have you considered trial attorney jobs with the UST? You’d still be in government, but you’d have more court time. I’ve also seen a handful of jobs (none recently) specifically looking for ch 11 experience for special asset divisions of banks, but you may have to be willing to relocate for an opportunity like that. Also, if you haven’t looked at funds that invest in distressed debt, you might want to — I’ve had a few colleagues end up in those types of in-house jobs.

        • Small state Anon

          I think bankruptcy lit is pretty niche. There are like 4 old guys that do it in my state. Someone has to replace them someday. Bankruptcy has its own rules. Most Lit firms here don’t touch it. Most of the bankruptcy attorneys here don’t do lit. Hence, niche market. I’m in a rural New England state. I think there is a lot of opportunity for you. You could be a consultant for lit firms on bankruptcy. One of the pworld I’m thinking of is sort of solo but co-counsels with lit firms all the time for his bkrptcy advice. I wouldn’t drop that skill.

    • Anonymous

      BigLaw regional office in the SE US. Maybe Tysons is sort-of similar in that we have to work a bit harder to get people, hours aren’t too bad, might make partner or go inhouse somewhere you’d want to be. Was Regional Law when I joined but we went through a merger.

      We have been hiring people with similar backgrounds for lending / finance / etc. work. A lot of my bankruptcy friends are now moving areas due to the change in the economy.

      Also, have you considered the big commercial real estate servicing firms? There is at least 1 big one in Bethesda.

      • Career Help?

        For regional law — biglaw or otherwise — use a recruiter or no?

        Also — I have a decent finance background from yrs of bankr. lit BUT I am still a litigator (currently doing financial/compliance-ish work for the gov’t). Is there a decent way to hold myself out as a lending/finance kind of person?

        Could you name the commercial real estate servicing firm you’re referring to? If not — could you name a competitor (located anywhere) so I can figure out what they do exactly and who their competitor may be in Bethesda. Real estate is an interest of mine (personal – not professional), so I’d want to at least look into what this is.

        • Coach Laura

          Career Help – you might look into in-house in finance or banking as a litigation manager or even general in-house counsel.

    • Ellen

      Yay! Open thread’s! I love Open thread’s and this denim skirt — tho it is NOT at all for work (Oviously!!!).

      As for the OP, Tripel HUGS! In many way’s we are the same — we work our tuchuses off onley to be tossed aside by peeople that do not apprecieate us–you at work and me in my personal life. But do NOT worry, there is a place for you–you just have to FIND it. Personaly I am still searching in my personal life for equalibrum, but my work world has finaly setteled down. I started out with a crappey job where guy’s just pinched my tuchus and stared at my boobie’s, all while I just wanted to serve supeenies. So then I had a lousy job and a boyfreind who was NOT yet a drunk and lush.

      But then, I got a decent job onley to find my boyfreind perferring the bottel over me, and takeing advantage of me sexueally b/c he was jelous of the fact that I was makeing more money then him, and he had gotten tossed from his job b/c he was sloppey and dopey with the drinkeing. To make matters worse, after I dumped him for good, I became a partner and he has been trying thru his mom to weezel his way back into my heart. But I will have none of that. No more Sheketovits.

      YOU, on the other hand, have been used and abused at work. That is UNFORGIVEABELE. You should be made partner, but they said nay. FOOEY on them! But remember you are a powerful woman with skills that you need to show to the right peeople. And you will, and you will become just as sucesful as I have become here doeing WC. I did NOT even know what WC was when I started out as an attorney at law. They did NOT teach WC law in DC where I went to law school. That is why you should broaden your horizon, and spread your wings to see what other kind of law you may want to do. Who knew that I could be makeing money copying and pasteing my pleadings all day, and having a pretty easy time of it in court b/c the judge like’s my clotheing and the fact that I can schmmooze with him in court. Am I being a littel patronizing of him? Of course, but that is what we have to do to succeed in this male dominated legeal world. I am NOT compromising my moreals, and neither should you.

      You did NOT mention anything about your personal life. I recomend that you find a guy (like I am trying to) b/c life can be more fun when you have a sober guy to come home to. Now that you are in DC, there are plenty of men to choose from, tho you should stay away from guy’s who work on the Hill, come into DC for a year or two and try to have sex with as many pretty women as they can b/f they go back to Paduka or wherever their family is.

      Once you have a guy to talk to (and eventueally have sex with) you will have more balance in your life. I am still waiting for a decent guy, and will NOT have a guy just to have sex with. I want to be MARRIED and have a child already, and you should think about that also, as you sound to be about my age. That is another path you can take. Once you find a decent guy to marry you, you can stay home and raise your kids. Just make sure he has a good job and is NOT a drunk, like my Sheketovits was. FOOEY on him.

      To the rest of the HIVE, have a great weekend! YAY!!!!

    • Em

      I think that market absolutely exists in D.C. One thought: what about boutique firms that practice in the area your agency regulates? Some of that work is much more interesting and varied than what the agency lawyers do and having government experience is a plus. Or what about moving within your agency to the enforcement division, general counsel’s office, or solicitor’s office? Those jobs can also be much more exciting.

      If you’re willing to name the agency you work at, I suspect we can come up with better suggestions.

    • cc

      Do you like DC in general? Check out Kate Neville in DC- I used her for my resume and she made a world of difference- she is like a coach for attorneys. It sounds like this isn’t the job for you, but there are plenty of other government jobs. Look for something a little smaller and a little more elite- something like a specialized branch of the navy or dept of energy. Some government jobs can be much more high profile especially if you get in a true office of general counsel- in mine we have attorneys from harvard law, chicago, gulc, and penn- certainly not clock punching people. You are in the best position to look around- you have a stable job. Start going to bar association events, law school networking events, etc. Learn what other people do and see if you like the sound of what they do.

      • Career Help?

        I like DC enough that I want to stay and give it a shot. It’s a nice enough place and much easier lifestyle and COL than NYC — which is what I was looking for.

        I think it’s the job that has me down. Thing is — don’t know if DC is a mistake as I really don’t think the gov’t is for me. My group/agency also hires people from Penn, GULC, etc. and represented itself as relatively fast-paced — but now I’m realizing — they hire from those schools simply bc there’s such a glut of lawyers, that they get to be choosy AND maybe it’s fast paced in their minds or in comparison to other gov’t offices but it’s not really fast paced.

        I am missing client contact and not having 100 people above me and even billing time. The thought of being stuck in this role for 30+ yrs is horrifying, as I can feel my legal skills depleting in just a few months. BUT I also know that I got a lot of crooked glances when I wasn’t working, so I had to take what I could get.

        I’ve seen Kate Neville’s name on this forum before — maybe I need to reach out. Thanks!

        • cc

          I am telling you I am at a fast paced gov shop- I’ve been private too so I am not speaking without knowledge. Try not to paint the government with such a broad brush- you’ve been at one agency for 5 months and people are trying to help you here. There are very smart, accomplished face paced lawyers in the government- you can’t get so down about the job search five months in! Talk to Kate to get some ideas, and try networking more- when you meet interesting accomplished people ask them what they do.

    • Shopping challenged.

      Sounds like your one reason for not wanting to go big law again is your fear of getting pushed out because you want partner and they don’t agree. I’m not sure you can fault the whole industry for the crappy thing your old company did. Why not apply for jobs in big law, being very open and upfront that in five years, you see yourself as partner at that firm? You could ask a few questions about the career path to partner.
      Good luck!

    • Anon

      I’m not a lawyer, but I am a former Fed so take with appropriate caveats. I know several attorneys who moved from Big Law into government legal positions and love their jobs, so you may just need to find the right fit. That said, working for government isn’t for everyone either. Since you are already a government employee though (no mean feat), I would try to leverage your position to learn more about other agencies and positions (are there networking events through your alumni association you can attend?). You may find there are other agencies that you would like better. Since you’re already a Fed (I think anyway), you’ll be easier to hire which is an advantage. I know less about the private law market, but I’m nearly positive that there must be a market for bankruptcy law in DC (and if not, there are definitely people who lobby related to bankruptcy law).

      It seems to me that you need to first determine whether you want to continue being in a role that requires your being an attorney. You’ve gotten some advice on things you could leverage your background to do, though I wouldn’t say it’s easy to just get a job on the Hill unless you are willing to work unpaid for a while and really accept that you will be learning a lot of things from scratch and likely working for someone many years younger than you (this is coming from a former Hill staff fellow). I don’t think you are doomed to hate your job for life, and I think DC is a great place to reinvent your career (I loved it though no longer live there due to DH’s job). But I also don’t think it’s going to be easy or straightforward, and you might find some value in first really examining what it is that you want out of your career (even if you can’t articulate the exact job yet).

    • Anon

      There are plenty of mid size firms doing interesting litigation work that would be happy to take on someone with your experience, possibly even as a non equity partner who they can bill at a higher rate. Yes, it might take time but do not throw your hands up.
      I’d probably look in northern Virginia too.

      When I was looking, I used martindale to look for forms of a particular size with certain practice areas in certain cities. Then I tried to connect with fellow alumni there. I ended up getting my first job at a smallish firm that did commercial lit and ta-da, bankruptcy work. (I didn’t do bankruptcy though). You may find the firms you’re looking for, reach out to Alum if there are some. If not, see what groups they belong to and do that.

      Other idea would be to check out the U.S. Trustees office. This may take time to get into but worth keeping your eye on.
      It wouldn’t hurt to talk to a recruiter. They can help you build your resume and make suggestions overall that you can use in the future. I know a few good ones in DC. The recruiter also had me draw up a marketing plan which was also useful.

      This is just how I would approach it if I were still in DC and wanted to do bankruptcy. I agree – what your firm did stinks. But you can land in a place that’s a better fit

    • Hollis

      13th year associate here. Never thought I’d be back at a law firm after having a similar experience as yours TWICE and making my way back to a bigger firm to give it another shot. This time I’m confident things will be different because the people I’m working with are brutally honest about their assessment of me so I have been able to course correct as needed. I found the job by networking and expressing interest in a particular firm that’s known for having a good culture and preferring laterals who are already trained. So, have hope and reach out to people who know people. I did not use a recruiter and just met lots of people for coffee.

  8. anon for this

    Has anyone been asked to give a reference via Skill Survey? I am applying for a new job and have been asked to provide 5 (!) references to fill this out online.

    • Anon

      Don’t know about Skill Survey — but I applied for a hedge fund job last yr and in their super picky process they needed something like 6 references. So it’s not unheard of.

      • anon for this

        How did you manage that? I’ve been in my current job at a small firm for a long time (7+ of 9 years in practice), and I only have one supervisor here who I’d like not to know that I am looking for a new job.

  9. Wannabe Road Warrior

    The post above reminds me, I’d love you ladies’ view on this . . . .
    Wharton undergrad, top tier law school grad, practiced law for 8 yrs (not corporate law), now in a non-legal role for a state agency.

    Given just that bio, is there ANY job that comes to mind that would pay 6 figures AND involve domestic travel? I am realizing that I am happiest when I’m on the road, and it need not be anyplace sexy – doesn’t matter if I’m in LA or Rochester or Toledo.

    I tried for consulting jobs last yr (think Deloitte and the like) and got a LOT of puzzled looks as people wondered why I’d leave a decade long legal career to start over in consulting at 110k (which Deloitte told me was its salary for an MBA grad). And there was TON of hesitation that I’d be able to do the work – even though they routinely hire people without a consulting background and put them thru training, I think they thought at 33 with a decades old finance degree, I wouldn’t be able to adjust. So that process didn’t go anywhere.

    So any other ideas? I don’t need to be on the road 4 days a week – but a few weeks every month/other month would be perfect.

    I feel like I am happiest when I’m on the road and when you travel on a weekday, you see all these guys in hotels who are clearly road warriors. What do they do for a living? They can’t all be consultants or attorneys traveling for depositions, right?

    • anon

      Sales? Are you even slightly sales-inclined?

      Insurance? (Again, kind of sales-ish).

    • anon

      Other than consulting, the jobs that come to mind are bank examiners and sales.

    • Anonymous

      Get into management at any large company with a workforce distributed all over the US – you’ll do a fair amount of travel at many places, most likely. Definitely how it is where I work. Especially if it’s a large company with different divisions headquartered in multiple locations.

      Honestly, I think with a consulting company, they see you as a 33 year old woman who might soon get pregnant and not be able to travel anymore. I’ve also had a weird experience with Deloitte. I had two interviews, they set up another call with me, and then nobody dialed into it and the recruiter was really patronizing when I called to check, like I was a stupid woman who didn’t understand that they didn’t want to hire me even though he had emailed all of the details out himself.

      • Wannabe Road Warrior

        I had the same kind of experience with Deloitte. Was recommended by a Director, though he didn’t have a need in his group so he turned me over to HR. The first HR person was fine. The second more substantive interview was meh. And then they never got back to me, which I guess was their way of saying they weren’t interested. Similar experience with AlixPartners as well.

        I felt like I spent a lot of time convincing both firms that I REALLY understand what the lifestyle is and I am seeking it out. But they didn’t want to believe me. Who knows — maybe they were thinking 33 yr old woman in a midlife crisis who wants to travel, the second she finds a boyfriend, she’ll get married, have a kid a yr later and that’ll be the end of traveling.

        • Cp2015

          A mistake that may have happened here is leading with the lifestyle (not sure if you did that) over the opportunity to learn. I’m in consulting now and its brutal. But only a small portion of that is due to travel. The lifestyle is actually far more dictated by client needs and constant changes.

          • Wannabe Road Warrior

            Believe me I didn’t lead with or even bring up lifestyle myself. It was all about having done a lot of client service, wanting to do that from the business side (rather than law), wanting to learn etc. No matter what I said — it was came back to lifestyle bc they kept bringing it up. I know client service is demanding whether you travel or not — I saw it at the law firms — clients pay top dollar, they want what they want and they want it yesterday and partners (at least at law firms) say yes to absolutely any client demand whether it’s doable immediately or not.

            I’m just being honest here that I want a travel job — wouldn’t say that to any company or even in an info interview.

          • Cp2015

            Super interesting that they kept on bringing it up…! I figured with prior experience in law and client service you would be familiar. I personally have heard people lead with that which is why I mentioned it. And maybe I am biased because the lifestyle is the #1 reason I would leave (brutal hours, not the travel part). I have heard sales / biz dev could be good. Maybe something that requires a lot of site visits or boots on the ground like retail or hospitality could be interesting choices! Good luck!!

    • Anon

      I’m a road warrior but not a consultant. I’m in senior management at a large company. Senior managers tend to be on the road a lot, whether it is for client meetings, visiting company branches or offsite events. So that may be who you see in those hotels. Say hi to me next time!

      One role that might result in more travel would be in an internal audit role within a large company that has locations in many places.

      • Wannabe Road Warrior

        Can an atty transition into senior (or mid level and work up to senior) mgmt and work her way up? Or is it an automatic NO when you see a resume that involves 10 yrs of writing briefs and holding a JD rather than PowerPoints and an MBA?

        What skills would you look for in such a resume?

        I have a finance undergrad; my law experience is all on behalf of large corporations, investment firms etc. And I have “soft” skills like managing a team, being client facing etc. Yet every time I apply for a business job, people look at me like I’m crazy.

        Tips?

        • Anon

          Try the insurance industry. Due to double and even triple regulation (state, SEC and now Fed for some) they are always looking for auditors and compliance types who are highly ethical and know the law.

      • Anon0321

        I’m in the regulAtory world and regularly get sent out to help with audits at different offices around the state- it’s an expectation for everyone in my team to do at least 1 a month, and more if you enjoy it (as not everyone loves the travel and people are always willing to hand over the trips to those that want them).

    • Anonymous

      I have a friend who is in-house and is on the road constantly for depo prep and other random litigation projects / meeting with the group she is tasked with overseeing. N.b. not a litigator. But companies get sued and need subject matter experts.

    • Anonymous

      Other than consultants, sales comes to mind as the most road warrior job.

    • Anonymous

      Deloitte’s starting salary for new MBA s in consulting is much higher than 110k. Probably something like 150k now.

    • Lobbyist

      State government affairs or government relations! Many companies have this under their legal department, others have it in Public Affairs/PR. You could oversee the state local lobbyists and do some government relations stuff yourself. The only thing is its hard to break into, and you need to know about and love politics, and have relationships with politicians somewhere.

    • Sales?

      I’m in a client-facing/relationship management role (it’s sales-y without being a true business development position), make six-figures, and I travel roughly once every 3-5 weeks. My husband is in a similar position (more senior to me at different company, though) and is on a business trip every 7-14 days.

      • Wannabe Road Warrior

        Any tips on how to seeks out this kind of thing? Would you even consider a lawyer resume or is that a straight up NO?

        Can an atty transition into senior (or mid level and work up to senior) mgmt and work her way up? Or is it an automatic NO when you see a resume that involves 10 yrs of writing briefs and holding a JD rather than PowerPoints and an MBA?

        What skills would you look for in such a resume?

        I have a finance undergrad; my law experience is all on behalf of large corporations, investment firms etc. And I have “soft” skills like managing a team, being client facing etc. Yet every time I apply for a business job, people look at me like I’m crazy.

        Tips?

        • MJ

          This may not be what you want to hear, but have you considered doing an exec MBA or an accelerated MBA (perhaps in Europe, like Insead or IESE)? That would help you transition the fastest to these types of roles. Unfortunately, consulting firms and banks have profiles of what age they want people to be when they come, and right or not, you don’t fit the profile.

          In terms of transitioning into management, it’s hard because even though you obviously have mgmt skills, it’s hard for a non-lawyer to even understand your resume. I think a really good career coach would go a long way toward de-legaling your resume.

          Also, applying to these jobs cold is not the way to go. You’re gonna need someone pulling for you fro the inside. I would dust off your Wharton alumni card and login to the alumni database and start doing mad alumni interviews.

          Also, and please don’t be offended, but “I just want a job with a lot of travel” doesn’t come off as very deep or realistic, mostly because most people who constantly do business travel don’t love. (I generalize, of course…some people do.) So I think it would come off better if you targeted a specific industry or function (like say, financial services and consulting). If you network with nebulous goals you’re going to get nebulous results. That said, it’s probably fine to start with picking people’s brains and honing in as you get a better sense of what is realistic.

          • Wannabe Road Warrior

            No offense taken at all.

            Yes — I have considered the MBA; am just weighing whether I can get into as good a b-school as I did for undergrad and law and if not, is the opportunity cost worth it?

            To be clear — I would NEVER say to someone “I want to make this move bc I want a travel job.” I’m just being really clear about that on this forum to generate ideas. I have actual reasons that I want to make a switch from a law role to a business role. I have industries that interest me personally, though I can’t say I’ve worked in them bc coming from a client service atty role, you work on whatever comes thru the door — energy; healthcare; transport/airlines/logistics are my personal fascinations.

            Having done some info interviews in consulting and interviews with AlixPartners and Deloitte — I now KNOW I am not what they want. I have the schools/grades etc. But they look for people who are 26-28 yrs old, coming straight out of an MBA or maybe a JD or MA program who will jump in and work their way up from 1st yr to 5th. They looked at me and thought — hmm, an almost 35 yr old woman who wants to switch careers, what if she doesn’t get the finance (even though I have some background), what if she can’t keep up, what if she quits in a yr or gets pregnant or something. I have zero interest in the aggression that is investment banking.

            Personally I think I am someone who is better off an a regular operating company if I am ever able to make the switch — anything from a Fortune 500 to a local company. I think I have the intelligence and work ethic to learn a business unit and do what it takes to get the job done; plus there is something about a “product” company (one that makes something or provides a service) that interests me much more now than financial services. But if I just apply for middle mgmt roles with my resume, I think people will roll their eyes and toss my resume. I guess it’s time to dust of my LinkedIn/Wharton alumni database and see if I can start to meet with a few people in my area who work for the major companies who may be willing to chat.

          • Cp2015

            Maybe try a free consultation with an MBA consulting firm. Look at Stacey Blackman or mbaMission, they offer free consultations, and I think some other firms do too!

    • Blonde Lawyer

      Is there a reason you are not considering high travel legal jobs? There are plenty of lawyer jobs that require lots of travel. Also, there is a very super boring legal job that has tons of travel. “Keeper of the records.” Most government agencies have someone in this role. You travel to court cases across the country just to say “here is how our records are maintained, this is where I got it, this is an authentic copy.” I’m guessing banks and the like also employ such people. I would have assumed they used local people for each case until I met someone whose sole job it was to travel the country testifying to a certain govt agencies record keeping.

      • Wannabe Road Warrior

        I have always looked for in house jobs, and yet have never been able to get hired. I know that’s a decent shot at traveling esp for a big corporation that has offices everywhere. I always end up being that person who gets to the final round and then they choose someone else. And there are so few of those jobs that ever open up bc it seems like when someone gets an inhouse job, they are not leaving until retirement (or they’ll move to another in house gig requiring in house experience — seems hard to get the first one).

        That’s why I’m asking about things like mgmt, sales, consulting bc it does seem like people DO leave those jobs all the time — often bc they get more money someplace else, they don’t want to be on the road etc.

        Not sure that I could handle being a keeper of records, at least not right now in my career.

        • Blonde Lawyer

          Yeah, that would be pretty boring (keeper of records). I met a big firm litigator awhile back that had flown in from out of state to try a case in mine. (Why they didn’t just use the big firm litigators in my state, I don’t know). But, he mentioned he travels over 200 days/year. So there are firm jobs like that but I don’t know how to find them since I’ve never sought them out.

    • Anonymous

      Honest question: why not McKinsey, BCG, other top tier consulting groups? Sounds you have the academic background and experience that would be a fit. And McKinsey/BCG actively recruit non-MBA professional degree holders (JD, PhD, MD) because that perspective adds a lot of value for their clients. McKinsey has an Insights program targeted at that demographic that is a several day “intro to consulting” but really can be leveraged as an extended interview process.

      That doesn’t address your interest in transitioning from client service to in-house. FWIW, I am not a JD but transitioned in house (business, not research) to pharma after a doctorate. I now run global teams at the director level and traveld 100k miles/yr for s couple years, about once every 3 weeks. A lot of the jobs you see posted may already have candidates in mind; some are posted externally to see what comes up but if the fit is not perfect the internal candidate often gets moved ahead. Once you’ve narrowed down some targets, a good recruiter can help you here too.

      A couple things to consider re inhouse functions:
      Sales at a mgmt level want people who have a track record of being high performers so it is really hard to get into that as an outsider with no sales experience. Perhaps an operational or compliance type role? Supply chain/logistics also travels a lot to inspect warehouses, meet with vendors, etc. if combine with procurement there is a lot of contract work, but not necessarily the most stimulating.

      The politics internally can be ridiculous though. Knowing the org and how to navigate specific personalities is a huge part of why internal hires get picked, but there is definitely opportunity for good people. Have you considered working with any of your former clients? Often consultants take that path when they exit. hope this gives some food for thought.

      • Anonymous

        As a consultant, what I am getting from the OP is that she doesn’t have a clear understanding of where she fits into consulting and what she can offer, which makes it really hard to sound convincing in an interview. Essentially she seems to be saying, I’m smart, and have some finance experience and a law degree… Does it makes sense for me to work for you? This message will not resonate with any firm, especially not a McKinsey or BCG.

        I think it she wants to really pursue consulting, she needs some significant career counseling from someone familliar with consulting to help prep her.

  10. Book recommendation

    Dear all, I have just finished a very, very exhausting stretch of work and have the weekend off :). I haven’t read anything for pleasure in years and am not up to date at all. What would you recommend (doesn’t have to be recent though)? Thanks in advance!

    • Maddie Ross

      Last good book I read was “The Boys in the Boat.” No chic lit at all, but enjoyable and a fast read.

      • Seattle Freeze

        Seconding The Boys in the Boat, and also recommending Station 11 – the latter is one of the best books I’ve read in years (and I read voraciously).

    • KinCA

      The Night Circus
      The Art of Fielding
      The Namesake
      American Ghost
      The Aviator’s Wife

    • Rogue Banker

      Anything by Christopher Moore (hilarious fiction, I’d recommend Fool or Lamb) or Mary Roach (most engaging nonfiction writing I’ve ever found, start with Bonk or Spook)

    • MDMom

      Are you looking for any particular kind of book?

      One of the most pleasurable books I’ve read in recent years is Where’d You Go Bernadette. It made me laugh out loud several times and was also rather touching.

    • K

      According to Mindy Kaling, everybody’s reading The Clasp by Sloane Crosley. I read it. It’s a quick, easy read…

  11. Anonymous

    I officially turned down my dream job out in the boonies today. It would have meant better hours, working with another young mom, more interesting work and better benefits and over twice a salary increase. Husband did not feel it was right for our family at this time as he and I both have good jobs where we are and our kid has an amazing range of options where he is at. Am quite sad about the whole thing, I know this sounds ridiculous but I was really excited about this opportunity and I feel like I haven’t been excited about going to work or my job in such a long time.

    • Cream Tea

      It’s one opportunity turned down. Many more to come! Don’t be sad – be relieved at the prospect of uprooting your entire existence for a job that might not have been any better in reality than the one you’re doing now. It sounds like you have a really good thing going. Count your blessings!

    • anon

      I am sad for you. :( Did you and husband discuss the job (and associated life changes) before you interviewed?

      • Anonymous

        We talked to one of the other lawyers about what was available for kids (in terms of programming, sports etc.) and it basically wasn’t much and what was there was all during the work day or so close to the end of work that we would never make it. The good daycare in town was full as well. So it was hard to justify moving our kid from the programs he likes and goes to basically nothing and a more questionable daycare. The whole thing was really sad though – I don’t think I had realized how dead end I feel that my career is as it is right now.

        • anon

          Well, here’s hoping that another opportunity comes along, one that will be a good opportunity for husband and kid, too. The two body problem is tough, a three body problem is even tougher.

    • So anon for this

      While a totally different situation, I was called out of the blue to interview for what sounded like a perfect opportunity that would involve a big move and a lot more money. I had to turn it down due to a non-waivable client conflict. I can’t get into the details but just trust me, there was no way around this and it sucked but on the bright side, at least I didn’t have to make the decision whether to leap or not.

    • Life

      It is completely reasonable to be disappointed. Sounds like there are many variables involved, and you made the right decision.

      Sometimes though… we need to step back and re-assess what are goals really are.

      It sounds like you are in an enviable position. You are healthy. You are married to a man you love and have a child. All of you are healthy, and productive. Not only productive, but you and your husband are smart and successful, and have high paying and interesting jobs that sound quite secure. You are respected for what you do.

      There is something crazy in our US mentality and “advertising” telling us that everything must always go up….. the market must go up…. we have to make more money…. we have to get more promotions. Our jobs should be an ideal that is unattainable for the vast majority of us. Today is never enough. We always need more.

      Maybe time to step back a little. Maybe today is enough.

      Your life is a fantasy for me, that I will never, ever know. I can’t even wrap my mind around it, actually.

      Sometimes when we have so much, we don’t appreciate what we have.

      • Blonde Lawyer

        I just had this same conversation with someone recently. They were lamenting the lack of upward mobility in their job. They are paid great in a low cost of living area, happily married, in the job they really wanted but feeling restless since there is no “up” from this position. Basically of 20 people doing the job, 1 or 2 could go higher in their career but for the rest, it is the ceiling. I see no problem with that.

  12. Anonymous

    I have been a long time lurker – through law school and being a junior lawyer and I am really annoyed by Ellen and fake Ellen and whatever. Whoever you are, you aren’t all that funny or interesting. A lot of the Ellen content is downright nasty. Is there some reason Ellen and her fake life are still here? Or at least can the mods here delete her rude and offensive comments on people’s legitimate questions?

    • What mods?

      Very rarely is a comment deleted here regardless of how offensive, especially since the Report link was removed. I have seen some really nasty personal attacks that were allowed to remain. Kat admits she doesn’t even read the comments or at least not in real time.

      • Anonymous

        Actually lately a lot have been being deleted. Sometimes the responses stay. Kat (or someone) has certainly been reading/cleaning some up. I have no idea why she lets Ellen and the fake ellen like people stay

        • What mods?

          I know some comments claiming to be from the ex husband of a long time reader were deleted, but I haven’t seen any other examples. I don’t go back and read old posts though and I actually read the ones from the ex and didn’t see that they were deleted until someone mentioned it in a later post. So maybe there is some moderation hours later that I haven’t noticed.

    • Anonymous

      Agreed. I just don’t understand the posters motivation. Why would you waste your time posting fake posts?

      • meme

        Personally, I hate “her” too. For reasons I don’t understand, some people find “her” entertaining.

    • Anonymous

      Sorry, but we love Ellen! If you don’t like her, move on to the next post.

      • Marie & her girlfriends

        Count me and my friends in the LOVE ELLEN camp. We take turns looking up her posts and reading them over the phone together. She faces the same issues all of us professionals do with work and love issues.

        The poster who “hates” Ellen really needs to focus on her own life and what she needs to do to make it better.

        It’s just like Taylor Swift says: “that haters are just going to hate, hate, hate…”

        But we are better than the haters! We LOVE Ellen!

    • Moonstone

      Yeah, I hate the whole Ellen shtick. I have to force myself to skip over instead of reading and being annoyed. Then I waste time wondering: “Is Ellen one of the regular posters who thinks this is clever”? and “Is Ellen a guy who thinks he can get a rise out of other posters?” Then I get mad at myself for spending even a minute thinking about it. So, in sum, I am out of sorts whenever I see an Ellen posting.

    • My guess

      I’ve always assumed that “Ellen” was written by the s1te owners.

      Nothing else makes sense to me …. too much of a “long play” to be anyone other than someone directly associated with the s1te.

      I just scroll down when I see an ‘Ellen” post.

  14. The stupid things

    It’s funny to think about what little things make us happy at work and what really makes us miserable when it changes. My firm recently decided to switch supply vendors to cut costs. We used to get really hard backed, quality paper legal pads. With the new vendor, they have chosen really cheap, flexible back, weird consistency paper legal pads. Everyone is complaining and the response is basically “get used to it” or “pay the difference for the fancier ones yourself.” I can’t believe how out of sorts I am from having to change my legal pad. Boo. And it just seems so petty of a place to make cut backs. Better than laying people off I guess.

    • I agree

      Government attorney here. Our legal pads went from adequate to ones where the paper is so thin that ink pens bleed through to the page underneath. So, effective use of every other page. Way to cost save, bureaucratic penny punchers! I’m buying my own and being piggy about sharing.

  15. Anonymous Traveller

    I am going to be traveling to DC every week for the foreseeable future, which for me involves plane travel. What is the best, most lightweight carry-on bag for under $200? It will need to have space enough for 5 days worth of work and workout clothes.

    • Shopping challenged.

      I love my 21″ TravelPro bag. I’m not sure how much it weighs, but it fits in overhead compartments. I also use a huge tote bag by Merino, the Target store brand, that just fits under the seat.

    • Anonymous

      I don’t have a suitcase recommendation. But, if your going to be staying at the same hotel every week, you may want to consider checking a bag each weekend and leaving some basics in DC so you have less to carry back and forth. I’ve done this a ton internationally (although never in the US).

    • Wildkitten

      Meant to be for Anon Trav. Also – if it’s the same hotel they can probably hold a bag.

      • Anonymous traveler

        Unfortunately it’s half the week in DC and the other half in different places each week.

    • Anon

      Well most of the first world is absolutely horrified that Americans are even considering Trump for president. Its unfortunate that such a lovely lady has such a deplorable father

      • DCR

        I travel internationally for work, and have been asked by locals if I think Trump will win the primary/general. In my experience, both the idea that Trump could become the US president and the fact that americans would vote for him are horrifying to people

      • meme

        I’m also horrified, and in disbelief, and I’m an American independent (who sometimes votes republican and sometimes democrat).

  18. Newbie

    I’m new entering this culture, and It sounds like my situation is a bit different than most but I am looking for some tips. I’m a business major that transitioned from active duty Army doing Air Defense Artillery as enlisted into a Medical Service Officer. Although I wear a uniform most days, when I am expected to wear “business casual,” it’s difficult to judge appropriateness based on others’ attire because it’s mostly men in khakis and boat shoes. Does anybody have any wardrobe staples for business casual, and ways to dress it up for a work-centric dinner?

    • Away Game

      Pants and a cardigan, I think. I like gray or black pants because I can’t stand the look of khakis and a collared polo shirt on me. Brown or navy pants would also work. Something like The Limited Editor pants, or Halohen’s Taylor from Nordstrom rather than a cotton twill like Dockers if you want to be a bit more polished or have a dinner later. A knit shirt – like a crewneck fine guage sweater or t under a cardigan is a great equivalent look to the the dockers-and-polo out-of-uniform uniform our military loves. The cardigan does not have to be the same color as the shirt, so a set isn’t what I mean…although nothing wrong with a sweater set if you like the look. I also like knit dresses for this kind of business casual but some of the (military) men I work with seem to think dress = formal. Pencil skirt is similar. I love oxfords or cute captoe flats or low wedges for shoes. For a dinner I would switch to a statement necklace, bling- y earrings, and heels if they work with the pants. Or add a jacket/blazer and you’d be set for dinner as well.

  19. Anonymous

    Agree with the suggestions above. Would add to opt for the same silhouettes that you wear casually. For example, if you wear skinny jeans in your down time, opt for work pants with a slimmer fit. If you don’t like to tuck your shirt in for casual wear, look for work tops that won’t need to be tucked in.

    I’d also suggest getting the bare minimum to get you started, and then build from there as you figure out what works for you/your office. Otherwise you might find after a few mo ths that all those collared shirts you thought you’d want to wear are actually the last thing you want to wear.

  20. Anonymous

    Credit card question

    I’ve had a united chase card for the last 3 years, and its been replaced 3 times because of vendor data security issues. This would not be a problem, except that I have a fair amount of regular charges tied to the card (monthly gym membership, Hulu plus, Netflix, insurance fees). It’s expiring soon, and while I might retain it, I’m looking at adding another credit card for at least these monthly charges if it would be more reliable.

    I’ve been considering an AmEx… Can anyone speak to whether they have had similar constant replacement issues with AmEx?

      • Wildkitten

        It has an annual fee though so you might not want to use it just for Hulu.

      • DisenchantedinDC

        I have, twice, with Chase Sapphire. They are great about it! – but not exempt. I think you’d have the same issues with any card, to be completely honest.

    • AM

      I have Bank of America Cash Rewards credit card. It has no annual fee and I’ve never had to replace it. I’ve occasionally had to replace my Starwood Rewards Amex.

    • Monte

      Both my Amex and my Bank of America Visa have been replaced multiple times over the last four years because of vendor fraud (only one time was fraud actually detected against my account — the rest of the times I just get an email about breaches and a new card in the mail).

    • Anonymous

      This might be too late for you to see, but I have (or have had in the past) a Chase hotel card, a Chase airline card, a Citi airline card, and an Amex hotel card and they’ve all needed to be replaced. Unfortunately I think any card used frequently online is going to have these issues.

  21. ISO MaternityJeans

    Ladies,

    I also posted this in CorporetteMoms, but in case someone who is no longer pregnant has advice… Please recommend some skinny maternity jeans with zips at the ankles to tuck into boots during the rainy season here in the PNW. I’m 5’2″ and 130#, 7 months pregnant (115 prepreg), still wearing size S/2 or 4 (hips 37). I have very short athletic legs and cannot for the life of me find blue skinnies with 26-27″ inseam that also zip at the ankles (last part to make them easier to pull on with this giant belly!). I can’t wear jeggings/tights – need something more structured and less polyester-y against my skin. Please help! Thanks a ton in advance!

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