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Updated: Oct 31, 2018 279 Comments · by

Weekend Open Thread

Weekend Open Thread |

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Lace-up Boot: Steve Madden 'Troopa' BootSomething on your mind? Chat about it here. This shoe has 1,988 (!) positive reviews at Nordstrom, and I'm kind of digging it — it reminds me of a slightly more feminine version of Doc Martens (which I've been thinking about since I saw Sheryl Sandberg wearing them recently-ish in a casual outfit). I think it's a nice look with leggings or skinny jeans for the weekend, and I like how adjustable this particular boot is, with all of the laces. I also like the zipper on the side, so you don't actually HAVE to do the laces. Happy weekend! Steve Madden ‘Troopa' Boot (L-3)

Sales of note for 10.10.24

  • Nordstrom – Extra 25% off clearance (through 10/14); there's a lot from reader favorites like Boss, FARM Rio, Marc Fisher LTD, AGL, and more. Plus: free 2-day shipping, and cardmembers earn 6x points per dollar (3X the points on beauty).
  • Ann Taylor – Extra 50% off sale (ends 10/12)
  • Banana Republic Factory – Up to 50% off everything plus extra 25% off your $125+ purchase
  • Boden – 10% off new styles with code; free shipping over $75
  • Eloquii – Extra 50% off a lot of sale items, with code
  • J.Crew – 40% off sitewide
  • J.Crew Factory – 50% off entire site, plus extra 25% off orders $150+
  • Lo & Sons – Fall Sale, up to 35% off
  • M.M.LaFleur – Save 25% sitewide
  • Neiman Marcus – Sale on sale, up to 85% off
  • Spanx – Lots of workwear on sale, some up to 70% off
  • Talbots – 50% off 2+ markdowns
  • Target – Circle week, deals on 1000s of items
  • White House Black Market – Buy one, get one – 50% off full price styles

And some of our latest threadjacks here at Corporette (reader questions and commentary) — see more here!

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Comments

    • moss

      I have these boots or an earlier Steve Madden style that looks exactly the same. They are very comfortable. The sole is a little thin (I walk a lot) and a problem I noticed is that the toe cap kind of wants to dent inward. But I really like them and have kept them through several closet purges. Nice brown boot.

  2. boots

    I had a brain meltdown yesterday. I could not pick between two pairs of neutral boots (gray and tan), due to wearing all black in the boot dept for the past 15 years. So I ordered them both. I wear a lot of gray in the winter, but cannot deal with gray and tan together. I like tan. I bet I keep them both. I figured at my billing rate, I could burn through hours of time trying to decide a correct answer and then dealing with a return, or I could bite the bullet and just take it as a cost of finally having some casual boots (which didn’t come in black or I’d have just gotten that).

    I hate that I can do complex things but I get completely stumped on things like this. I miss suits and biz-casual (which is scary casual for December now that it’s “Denim December”). So much less to trouble the mind about!

    • lslsls

      I think light gray knits and tan look lovely together – and definitely trending now. Are the boots both suede? That makes it easier to match with other grays or tans IMO.

  3. Anonymous

    What are your most worn casual staples? I’m looking to upgrade my wardrobe.

    • Anonymous

      I have a DVF Reina dress that I wear I ton. I got mine on e-bay, but you can get them for less on Last Call, or sale-stalking the DVF website.

      I am 5-4, so it’s not too short on me. I wear it as a dress when it’s warm and more of a tunic with leggings when it’s colder. It’s surprisingly versatile.

      It’s easy to wear without being sloppy.

    • ANP

      A great pair of skinny jeans in a dark wash.
      A great pair of boots.
      Relaxed but put together tops (i.e. the baseball tee from Boden).
      The Bobeau one-button fleece wrap cardigan (Nordstrom).
      Thick leggings in black and gray
      Skinny black ponte pants

    • emeralds

      In cold weather? Oversized cashmere sweaters over boots + leggings or skinny jeans, with a nice big pashmina. Looks more put-together than a sweatshirt, equally comfortable.

      • lawsuited

        +1 I own no sweatshirts, but about 15 oversized merino or cashmere sweaters for this purpose.

          • emeralds

            When I need a new one, I stalk upscale consignment stores. I have a couple of different brands, but they’ve all held up well and have been in the $75-125 range. So not cheap, but well below retail.

          • Kiki

            Celtic and co has the best oversized merino sweater. So soft and nice wide band to hug your hips.

          • lawsuited

            Lord and Taylor has some oversized pullovers every season. I have 3 awesome boyfriend-style cardigans that I got from Talbots 2 years ago, but they’ve never repeated the style!

    • Snickety

      I continue to search for the perfect thick, casual-but-not-sporty black legging. If anyone has a favorite, please share.

  4. Anonymous

    Favorite password manager? I’ve been using lastpass for years but it’s so slow and glitchy… I’m a mac user. Should I figure out how to use the Safari one?

    • Anonymous

      I don’t use one. For most low-risk sites, I tend to have the same long alphanumeric password, so it’s easy for me to remember, but no one else could guess (and what is the risk if they read my NYT articles?).

      I periodically shuffle important passwords, but have an internal code for generating them (think: color + two years ago + vacation site + swap 3 for E, etc.).

      • Runner 5

        I have a variation on this – an alphanumeric string with different suffices for different accounts. Some super low risk accounts I don’t bother with a suffix.

      • Batgirl

        Well, I think the risk is that they could use that to hack into your account and get your credit card information and address. And then use that info to hack into accounts you care more about.

      • Rachel

        We also use the Dashlane (free) version. It is not perfect, but if you know what you are doing, and keep a backup, you should be good to go! Go to Dashlane.com and download the free app. It is good for 1 computer. I think there may be a smartphone version, but that is not where I use most of my apps. My husband lost all of his passwords last year when he cleaned up his files, so Dashlane has been a godsend for him.

    • Anonylicious

      I use KeePass. (Also a Mac user, as well as an Android and Linux user.) It’s open source and cross-platform.

    • Trish

      I have never used one. How does it work/ Passwords are the bane of my existence.

  5. ANP

    I have to feed 9 adults and 6 kids on Sunday — we’re having family and some friends over to watch football, and dinner will fall within the timeframe of the game. I usually love to cook but am totally out of gas when it comes to ideas for feeding this crowd. Here’s what I’ve thought of and discarded:

    + Ordering pizza — blagh.
    + Dinner A Love Story pork ragu — delicious, but I just made this last week.
    + Pulled chicken or pork in the crock pot — too close to the ragu, above.
    + Taco bar — maybe a contender, but feels a bit boring.

    I’m ideally looking for something I can preassemble and put in the oven OR cook in a slow cooker. Bonus points if it’s not horrifically bad for you (holiday eating is starting to get me down). Any tried-and-true recipes for me?

    • Killer Kitten Heels

      What about chili? Or is that still too close to the pork ragu?

      Alternatively, order a 6 ft. hero, make slow-cooker mac and cheese, toss a big salad, and you’re done.

    • Anonymous

      Ok this falls under pulled chicken but is sooo good. Buffalo ranch chicken sliders. Google it. It’s just chicken breasts, franks red hot, and a packet of dried ranch dressing seasoning. Once the chicken is cooked, drain it, add more Franks red hot. Serve on hawaiin sweet rolls. Always a crowd pleaser at parties. Serve with a salad and some fruit salad, humus and chips. Boom you’re done.

    • Lyssa

      How about Salsa Chicken? Just take a bunch of chicken parts, dump some salsa over them, and slow cook for a few hours, then serve over rice. One of my favorites, and super easy.

      • Lorelai Gilmore

        How much salsa do you use for this? I made it recently and was not impressed, but maybe I didn’t use enough salsa.

        • Anon

          I doctor this up when I make it because I had the same reaction. I coat the chicken in taco seasoning and throw in some lime juice and sautéed onions.

        • marketingchic

          This is a go-to for me. I use chicken thighs, sprinkle with garlic salt and cumin, and dump about a half of a jar of salsa over that (maybe 1 cup salsa to 2 lbs chicken.) Also works with pork shoulder (cut up) – in that case I like green salsa.

    • SuziStockbroker

      Beef and Guinness stew in the slowcooker?

      Spaghetti Bolognese

      Shepard’s Pie

    • Anon in NYC

      I’ve made the Cooking Light Char Siu recipe (basically Chinese barbeque pork) in the slow cooker, put it on a bun (brioche rolls are great for this), and topped it with a vinegar-y coleslaw, and people raved about it. Link to the char siu recipe here: http://tinyurl.com/zw94byq

    • AIMS

      I was going to say chilli as well. If that’s too close, what about some chicken or turkey meatballs and you can get some Martin’s mini potato rolls and let people make sliders.
      If you wanted, you could also include an easy to put together pan of baked pasta to go with.

    • Anon in NYC

      My original reply is in moderation because of a link, but here is the text: I’ve made the Cooking Light Char Siu recipe (basically Chinese barbeque pork) in the slow cooker, put it on a bun (brioche rolls are great for this), and topped it with a vinegar-y coleslaw, and people raved about it. [Google Cooking Light Char Siu and slow cooker].

    • Anona

      Pho bar? You can buy the broth and have beef, mushrooms, bean sprouts, cilantro, basil, lime, etc to add in. It is pretty low effort. You could also try middle eastern food – there are some great recipes in Jerusalem. You could roast a ton of veggies (the butternut squash recipe from that book is amazing), make a salad, make a fancy rice dish, kibbeh, etc.

      • Lizbet

        If you go the pho bar route, you could also get a pile of Vietnamese sandwiches — light and relatively healthy, as well as filling.

    • the gold digger

      Broccoli rice casserole goes well in a slow cooker and you can throw the balance more toward broccoli and less toward Velveeta, although I will not judge you if you use a ton of Velveeta.

    • Snickety

      Green chili chicken enchiladas. You can do a veg version by just leaving out the chicken. I usually use a green chili sauce from a jar. Pioneer Woman has a good recipe.

    • Hollis

      Buy a large salmon filet from the store (or Costco) and put some tom douglas “rub with love” on top and stick it in the oven for maybe 15 minutes. So easy. You can also get broccoli or cauliflower, toss with olive oil, salt and pepper, and throw it in the oven as well (and top with some fresh grated parmesan after it’s roasted). Sweet potato fries are always a hit, too. Spinach salad with strawberries, almond slivers, goat cheese, and a mix of balsamic vinegar/olive oil/sugar for dressing. If we need more food than that, I will add a tray of ribs from Costco (from the rotisserie chicken warmer) or make a penne pasta bake (easier than lasagna).

  6. Anonymous

    Wanting to repost – doing an MBA recommendation for a great employee. Need to include a “area to improve”. I don’t want to make one up, but also don’t want to hurt his chances as I’m confident he’ll do well. He needs to be more concise generally (in writing and on calls), which is what my honest rec would be.
    How would you all approach?

    • nutella

      That sounds like a benign and honest one. I might phrase it as, “Candidate could work on being more concise. Since this has been brought up to him in his most recent review, he is already working on this skill. I am confident he will continue to improve while here and even more so while pursuing his MBA. Candidate is a great employee who is constantly working to improve, and I am confident he will succeed as your student and alumnus.”

    • Anonymous

      I like Nutella’s answer. You could also phrase it as a benefit of the MBA program will be that he can work on his area of improvement, which is being more concise.

      In general for MBA recommendations, I would suggest understanding his future career goals, at least as he is planning to express them in his application. If you can then speak to how you would think he would excel in his long term career goals, and his traits that would make him excel, it would be very powerful.

      Think about it this way, admissions is looking for people that other companies will want to hire. If you can help them see that other companies in his future will want to hire him, that is a great thing to have in a recommendation.

    • Anonymous

      Just because they ask for it doesn’t mean you have to answer with one. Another option is to talk about how he handled a problem or a weakness – for example, I usually talk about a weakness they identified and talk about how they tackled it. If you haven’t written these before you might want to check with someone who’s been on an admissions committee to make sure you’re not accidentally using coded language that could harm her – I’m only familiar with my industry (arts) so can’t advise there

  7. Anon

    I have a question for all of you high achieving ladies – were you high achieving in high school?

    I’m a bit dismayed about my almost 15 year old daughter’s grades. She has always struggled to get good grades. She is a diligent worker and does all of her assignments and homework, but does not do well on tests. She never has. Her standardized testing has always come back as “at grade level” or once even approaching grade level in math.

    Her good attitude and work habits got her good grades in middle school but now that she is in high school the test grades really matter, and she got a couple of C’s on her first semester report card. The remaining grades are mostly B’s and a couple of A’s in elective classes.

    It’s hard for me to relate to her because I never had to work hard to do well in school. In fact, I was the opposite, often blowing off homework but making it up by acing the tests.

    I’m worried that this will affect her chances of getting into college, or succeeding in college if she gets there. It is increasingly tough to make a decent living without a college degree in this country and it seems it all starts with doing well in high school.

    Can anyone relate to this? Did you get into and through college with these kinds of grades? Or did you turn your grades around? If so, how did you do it?

    For what it’s worth, she’s a lovely happy girl with a great group of studious and well adjusted friends.

    • JJ

      I would think that “she’s a lovely happy girl with a great group of studious and well adjusted friends” is the most important part of your post. I’m a parent, so I understand the worrying spiral, but I think she’s 15 and she’s a diligent worker. There are so many people out there that are successful and high achieving that didn’t go to the best colleges or had trouble taking tests.

    • Anonymous

      I didn’t struggle with this, but DH did. He did not do very well in high school (not badly but not “high achieving”) and then was suddenly successful in college and grad school (summa cum laude for both). I don’t know if something changed in his mindset or if it was just exposure to different material/pressures. On the other hand, I was consistently in the top 1% on standardized test but I feel like I will not be as successful as DH because he has a far better work ethic.
      I would be very proud of her for working hard and having a good attitude. Emphasize to her how important that is. That will serve her better in life than a million good grades.

      • lawsuited

        +1 Similarly, I didn’t struggle with grades, but DH had very average grades in high school and university, but like OP’s daughter, he has a lovely personality and an easy way with people. Everyone he meets likes him so he networks very easily and has found great opportunities that way, and easily becomes an asset on his work team because of his positive attitude and strong work ethic.

        OP, find ways to nurture your daughter’s natural soft skills, and perhaps explore alternate ways of entering the work world if university turns out not to be the sensible next step. It sounds like she has a lot going for her :)

        • Anon

          +1 to both of these. I was always the top of my class and school came easy for me, and I have been very successful as a result. My husband, however, was pretty average in school (leaning toward below average) and, combined with parents who didn’t prioritize education, ended up in a union trade straight out of high school. He has worked incredibly hard, though, and combined with a great personality, and incredible networking skills. has worked his way up to a job that requires a college degree even though he doesn’t have one. He is making a salary that is close to mine (and I have a professional degree). Good grades make life easier, but they aren’t everything.

    • Anonymous

      Yes — I was a rockstar in high school and didn’t work hard at all.

      BUT it’s not true that you need a BA! It helps, but it takes at least 4 years (some of which she could do in community college or over the summers to tip a toe in the college water). And costs a lot of $.

      The person who cuts my hair went to beauty school was working at 19 and owns her own house and is in her 30s. She travels and has a great life. She may never afford a Harvard education for her children (but I can’t either, plus I was in school until I was almost 30 and had tons of loans for a job that made me miserable), but that’s true for most people.

      I know nurses who get an RN and start working, too (but now you need a BA, but many hospitals will help you get that). And skilled trades people.

      My friends who were in the military after high school earned degrees or certificates while in the service and are retiring now. Some are going back to school or doing other things (selling real esate, starting businesses).

      My husband was a kid who probably had undiagnosed ADD (I am certain), hates reading, and graduated high school. He slowly worked his way into night school and then transferred to a party school (says me, it was still work for him) and graduated, but does something unrelated to that that he enjoyed working on (to fund his “music career” back when he was in his 20s). So you never know.

      What does she like and what is she good at?

    • mascot

      I had a rough freshman year grades wise, figured out what I needed to change academically, and got into a highly competitive college. Don’t panic. Testing at grade level is a good thing. Someone has to be in the middle of the curve! She’s normal. There is a college out there for her. She’s only what a freshman/sophomore?
      Can you have her work with a tutor or a teacher to see where she is struggling on tests? Maybe she needs to learn how to write differently or study more efficiently. This is what school is for.

    • Anonymous

      She’ll be fine. As long as she is developing good study habits, she’ll probably actually be better off than a lot of kids that simply tested well in HS (myself being one of them), since she won’t have to be learning how to study AND learning the material at the same time.

    • Killer Kitten Heels

      [Background: I volunteer with HS students, and a portion of what I do with them is college readiness/prep/application work, so that’s where I’m coming from here.]

      So, first thing – yes, Cs/Bs will affect her college prospects. She’ll absolutely get into college – you’re not in a “won’t get in anywhere” situation – but not the same schools as some of her straight-A friends. With that said, there are dozens, if not hundreds, of good schools that would be happy to have a smart, studious, diligent, personable young lady in their student body – the best thing you can do for her on the college front is start helping her look for those places, instead of treating it like some kind of tragedy that she won’t get into, say, Brown (it doesn’t sound like you’re doing this at all, but I’ve seen parents do this a lot, and it is heartbreaking to watch great kids get torn up by their parents’ school preferences/over-focus on perceived prestige/etc.). She also may want to focus her eventual college search on smaller places, where her professors will get the opportunity to really know her – those kinds of personal connections become really important for middle-of-the-pack-type students, and it sounds to me like she’d shine in a place where professors/administrators would have the chance to get to know her.

      You could also ask her if she thinks she’d be helped by tutoring – especially in a subject like math, it probably wouldn’t hurt for her to get some additional 1-on-1 time with a skilled teacher/tutor to work on firming up her understanding of the subject.

      Ultimately, grades are important if, say, she wants to be an investment banker or a Supreme Court clerk or a Biglaw lawyer, because grades are the way to get into the kind of academic institution that opens the door to those careers. If she wants to be pretty much any other thing, a degree from a decent college with strong personal recommendations from professors/internship supervisors/etc. will be enough.

      • Killer Kitten Heels

        One more thing – my H, throughout school, was a mid-range student. He went to a small campus of our state’s school system, where he got involved with the campus radio and television stations. The connections he made and the skills he built there launched his career, and he’s now a successful advertising professional, because – shockingly! (j/k, that was sarcasm) – actual technical skills in his field, and the ability to form personal connections with people, proved to be a heck of a lot more relevant than his ability to correctly answer multiple choice questions. :-)

      • emeralds

        All of this. I used to be a college access counselor and worked with a ton of A/B/C students who absolutely got into schools that were great for them, where they could get a solid education that will set them up well for a future career. They just aren’t necessarily going to be the Harvards or Yales or even the Michigans or UVAs of the world, but newsflash: most college students do not go to those schools, and they do just fine,

        There can also be a big learning curve between middle and high school, and it is totally normal for a student’s grades to show that. If she’s got her heart set on Princeton, that matters, but (to use my state as an example) it would not matter at all to our excellent moderately-selective public schools.

        In other words, don’t be the parent crying (literally, crying) at me because her precious son got a C in pre-calc and that would RUIN HIS LIFE because he couldn’t get into Virginia Tech.

      • AttiredAttorney

        If she absolutely wants a four year degree, can she begin beefing up her extracurricular activities and seeking leadership positions in them? You don’t need great grades to be president of the drama club, but it really helps in college admissions to have leadership positions and can help compensate for the lackluster academics.

    • KittyKat

      I’m closer to your daughters age than yours. I was always a high achieving chick, even graduated early. However lots of my friends were not, no matter how hard they tried their grades were just average. None of them went on to conquer the world, but they all have diplomas or degrees and 9-5s, lots of dental assistants, teachers, ultrasound techs ect. It’s not a bad life, and society runs with all types of people.

    • Anonymous

      Yep, I was always overachieving, and you know what, I never really learned to work hard (or work efficiently), until I started college, and it was a hard transition.

      Also, my sister failed grade 12, had to repeat it, did community college for 2 years, switched to a good university, finished her masters, and is now in medical school. She’s smart, but was lazy for a long time.

      Basically, someone who is diligent and a hard worker will end up fine, I think, as long as she’s working to the extent of her potential, and you’re getting her tutoring to help the grades, she’s probably going to be fine.

    • Anon

      Be happy that she is happy.

      I was a high achiever in high school – i was also hospitalized with major depression at 19. I’d switch places with her in a second. Being able to be top of my class without really trying did not serve me well in the long run. I didn’t have to learn how to study until law school and first year law is not the place to discover you have been coasting your whole life.

      • Runner 5

        +1. I went to a pressure cooker high school and had a lot of high achieving friends. Now we’re in our early 20s a lot of us are suffering with mental health problems that we trace back to that school.

    • Anonymous

      Two thoughts –

      Maybe she could use some help with test anxiety or just test taking skills? One of my friends in HS just needed more time – she got documentation and an accommodation (which she continued through high school, college and medical school) and her grades sky rocketed. She just needed 25% more time than allowed. Otherwise, tutoring with an eye towards test taking specifically rather than the material itself might help.

      In college and beyond, there are a lot of “paper classes” where her success will be based on the skills she is displaying now – rather than tests. She’ll do well in those, I’m sure.

      My husband was a B/C /D (“D is for Done”) student in HS and college (bc lazy) and has done great for himself.

    • Anonymous

      I was probably a B student in high school, very average standardized test schools, went to a large state school and completely blossomed in college. I think I was actually bored in high-school and thus didn’t try very hard. Ended up with close to a 4.0 most semesters in college because it was more challenging. Got my masters, now relatively high-achieving and in a good career. Won’t be a CEO but I make good enough money and am a well adjusted married woman. She WILL get into college (hardly any students are in the “can’t get in anywhere” camp) even if its community college for the first two years, but I would ask her if she WANTS to go to college or wants to do something that requires a college degree. This is hard to know in high school, but plenty of people do fine with vocational skills and they can get into the workforce earlier (with little to no loans) and thus end up more financially stable than the rest of us. Examples include: hair stylists, plumbers, electricians, carpenters, health field (nursing programs can be crazy competitive though).

    • Anonymous

      I will disagree with the majority and say that those grades (especially Cs) would not be ok for my kid and if she continues to get grades like that it will absolutely negatively affect her future.

      What about tutoring? It can help a lot if there are particular subjects she is struggling in. Can she drop an elective or take a slightly easier schedule? My understanding is that better grades and an easier schedule is better than poor grades and a tough schedule.

      • Killer Kitten Heels

        “Negatively affect her future” in what sense?

        I can understand, as a parent, being upset if you feel like the C doesn’t represent your kid’s potential, but if your kid is doing their best, and their best is a C, what then?

        Also, at least anecdotally, you’ve got the formulation all backwards when it comes to good grades/easy schedule vs. mediocre grades/tough schedule – a kid who is pushing herself to take on the tougher work (and has the teacher/guidance counselor recommendations to back up her work ethic) will fair better than a kid who appears to smart but coasting in the admissions process.

        • Anon at 4:12

          I’m white, but I’m with Tiger Mom (Amy Chua, not the person on this thread who uses that handle) on this issue. I think white Americans are way too lax about grades and school stuff in general and pat kids on the head for trying way too much (“Oh Susie’s doing her best, it’s ok!”). And I didn’t say she should come down hard on her kid, who does appear to be hard-working and diligent, I said she should get tutoring, which is an external thing she can do to help her kid have the best chance of succeeding.

          I can agree w/you that Bs in tough classes might be better than As in easy ones, but when we’re talking Cs, you’re at the point where a large number of schools will cut you based on GPA alone and those same schools aren’t the caliber that expect an AP-heavy course schedule. Sure, you need the hard classes to get into Harvard, but Harvard isn’t on the table here. In addition, in many states if you are in the top X% of your class grade-wise, you can get into the state public university. That is an easy way to get into a decent or in some cases very good school and it has absolutely nothing to do with “strength of schedule.”

          • Killer Kitten Heels

            I guess I’m just perplexed by the notion that a kid who is working really hard, academically challenging herself, passing all her classes, and developing into the type of human being a parent should be proud of is considered “not succeeding” because she’s not Harvard material. I’ve spent plenty of time with “Harvard material,” and from OP’s description, I’d take her kid over at least 50% of the “Harvard material” kids any day of the week.

          • Liz

            +1 to Anon at 4:12. “Could do better with hard work” is different from “not succeeding.” People are so afraid of labeling their kids the second that they won’t say the first. If your kid is genuinely working hard, that’s one thing, but I have yet to see the high school class a kid literally *couldn’t* get a B in by learning better study skills, time management, etc, in addition to studying the subject material.

    • Lorelai Gilmore

      Does she have a learning disability related to her test-taking? It would be so frustrating to be your daughter – to put in the work and the time, but not see results in her grades. I would think that some evaluation would help her figure out what it is about tests that isn’t working for her. This is particularly true if she seems bright and like she grasps the material other than in the test context.

      • Trish

        A learning disability? Um that would mean she was BELOW average. I am disgusted that everyone thinks their kid has to be ABOVE average. You know that can’t happen? You know there is a bell curve, right?

        • E

          Well, in many high schools getting Cs would mean you’re below average – grade inflation is very real so a ton of kids in my daughters’ grade graduated with a 4.0 or close to it. It sounds like OP’s daughter is doing all of the right things and is happy and well adjusted, so it doesn’t seem like there’s any reason to panic; it’s just that a C isn’t really average in the high schools I’m familiar with.

        • Lorelai Gilmore

          I’m not saying anything about whether she’s above or below average. I think the bell curve model is reductive and simplistic and not particularly useful. All I’m saying is that if you have a kid who is working hard, studying well, absorbing the material with interest, and somehow, consistently unable to reproduce all of that work in a testing environment, there may be an issue with her interaction with the testing environment. I’d want to check that out. She sounds like a great kid – a fantastic student, friend, and daughter. We don’t all have to be school rock stars. But if my great kid was getting frustrated or losing interest in class because of consistently poor testing results, I’d want to look into what was going on.

        • Anonymous

          Umm, you can totally have a learning disability and be above average. I have moderate dyslexia which was not diagnosed until my last year of college exactly because I still got A. Doesn’t change the fact that I have dyslexia. And I’m very happy it was discovered then, because I’ve been able to develop habits that are helpful in my job.

        • Anon

          Learning disability absolutely does not mean below average. In fact, many gifted people have learning disabilities. A learning disability doesn’t mean low IQ or not smart. It means, very very generally, that your brain processes differently.

    • the gold digger

      I did great in high school because I never had to study and started out not well in college at all because I never had had to study.

      Better to learn how to study and how to cope with discouragement and not doing well in high school than in college, where you are paying a lot more money and the stakes are higher.

      BTW, even though I did well enough in college and did great in grad school, nobody has ever cared about either GPA. It really doesn’t matter after a point.

    • Anona

      It sounds like she’s doing OK, so make sure you don’t stress her out by hinting that you wish she was a straight A Harvard bound kid. Doing average is, well, average – she’s not “not doing well”! What does she want to do when she grows up? Unless she’s really gunning to be a CEO or a brain surgeon, her grades ultimately don’t matter that much – with a B average she will definitely get into schools – maybe not a highly prestigious school, but a school that is just fine. I did well in school, went to a state university at a campus that was the most prestigious, and tons of students who had not done as well transferred over in their junior year. We have the same degrees. Not to mention, which college you go to doesn’t actually matter that much, unless you are trying to do certain things. I have a friend who majorly slacked off in school, joined the Coast Guard, and then later went to college on the GI bill and did very well and has a great job. It was just not his priority at the time.

    • Anonylicious

      I barely graduated high school on time. Failed Algebra II and Chemistry my junior year; luckily, my school experimenting with semester scheduling, which let me double up on math and science my senior year. I got Ds in Algebra II and Pre-Cal that year, but D stands for diploma, after all. (And I just recently, at the age of thirty, found out that I have ADHD and possibly a learning disability. That would have been helpful to know twenty years ago.)

      I wound up going into the military after high school, and eventually went to college on the GI Bill. I graduated from there with honors, and now I’m well established in a career field, kicking butt professionally, and doing well in my part-time graduate classes. So don’t despair. High school performance is not necessarily reflective of future achievement.

    • Brit

      My brother is/was like this. One of our teachers once stopped me in the hallway in HS to say “that brother of yours thinks he can get by in life on his charm.”

      And you know what? He does. He barely graduated from our Big Ten college and makes scads more money than me – and I have a law degree from a top 6 school. He didn’t have to deal with 6 figures of debt like me. He has friends and the time to go on numerous lavish vacations. He gets promoted at least annually.

      Academically I was a smashing success but I’m a failure by any other measure.

      • Hollis

        What do you mean by your last sentence? I get the academic success, but why do you think you are a “failure” in any other aspect of life?

    • Blonde Lawyer

      I had zero pressure from my parents regarding grades. My mom didn’t go to college and my dad dropped out of high school. (Cool story, got his GED, went in the Navy and when he retired he was managing three shifts of chemists that all had Masters or PHds, and he still just had his GED/experience.)

      When I was in school, teachers believed in the bell curve. C’s meant average. B’s above average. A’s absolutely excellent. D’s needs improvement. F, failing. So, C meant I was right where I should be. Around junior year, my friends became interested in college and I decided I wanted to improve my grades so I could go too. The key for me was taking classes I was interested in, not just “tracked classes.” I got a D in Algebra II too and a late in life ADHD diagnosis. But I was getting an A in honors physics so a lot of it really depended on the teacher that I had.

      I did amazing in college (see getting to pick my own classes) and it was a very academically rigorous program. So, my first instinct is to say “don’t worry.”

      However, in my professional life, I’ve had to learn a lot about the change in school culture. Teachers today do not believe in the bell curve anymore. The theory that some people will be doctors and some people will be garbage pickers is gone. Part of it is No Child Left Behind. Teachers are supposed to believe that every kid is capable of getting an A in every class. In today’s culture that believes that, where there is no forced downward grading to meet a curve, a C means something a lot more negative than a C did in my day. I think you need to talk to your daughter’s school to find out what it means there. Where does she rank? My college had a forced downward curve so even though I “only” had a 3.2, I was in the top 15% of my class. If her school is newer aged and only 3 kids get c’s at all, then she might be looking at the bottom of the rank and that’s an issue.

      But, even my friends who didn’t go to college at first are doing well now. Many are probably happier than most lawyers.

      Personally, I don’t believe that all kids have equal abilities and I don’t think it is fair to push someone to be someone they aren’t. I know the majority of educators would disagree.

    • Trish

      My son had a hard time adjusting in ninth grade. He finally got the groove in tenth. AND PLEASE! Do not put ANY importance on the test scores. Our kids are more than scores! I don’t even allow my son to take the standard tests anymore. Unitedoptout.com Don’t stress! Your daughter will be just fine based on her wonderful personality.

    • Trish

      She works hard and studies. Are you mad she isn’t as smart as you? I was a great test taker! Big deal. Chill out and be glad she isn’t bulimic or on drugs.

    • Anon

      All of these posters seem to be assuming that your daughter is not just doing the work, but is actually applying herself. If she’s doing very well in her elective classes (which she chooses because she is interested in them), are you certain that she is actually applying herself with the same vigor to her non-elective classes in which she is not doing well? Merely doing the homework or spending time in what appears to your parents to be “studying” does not mean she is actually focusing her brain on the studying of the less interesting subjects. Is she possibly zoning out/facebooking/daydreaming during that study time, but you’re not able to see it? I just question the notion that she could do so well in her elective classes but not do well in her non-elective classes if she is truly applying herself with the same vigor.

      As someone who is inherently smart but not brilliant, I know that working my a** off is what got me into succesful programs and into the law school of my choice. When I let myself daydream or procrastinate, I slipped, grade-wise. I do think it’s important for your daughter to try as hard as she can so she can have the widest range of options for her life (obviously not at the cost of being happy and well adjusted, but I think there may be more going on under the surface than you realize).

    • OP mom

      Thanks all for your thoughtful replies.

      I love my daughter and I’m proud of her, I just worry (I think we all worry over many things!). I have no plans to push her to get into an elite school but I have always made it clear to both of my kids that there aren’t 12 grades of school, there are 16 – a four year degree is expected. I would be happy if she got into any of the UC or CSU schools. I would be less happy with community college mainly because so many of my nieces and nephews and friends’ kids got stuck there due to a combination of needed classes being full and credits not transferring as promised. Also, I loved my on-campus experience at a small liberal arts (not prestigious) college and I would love for my kids to experience that.

      I am NOT ashamed of her being average on tests, I honestly just wanted to ask whether any of the commenters on here had experienced the same. In my daughter’s case, she does not have a learning disability (has been checked) and tutoring helped her with her homework but not test scores.

      She hopes to be an elementary school teacher some day. A lot can change with career plans when you’re 15 but I can really see her doing that. She’s a nurturing type.

      Anyway, thanks to all, and keep the stories coming. They are all helping me gain perspective.

      • anon prof

        You sound like a great mom with a great daughter. One thing to keep in mind is that many liberal arts colleges are now test optional, so she won’t need to take the SAT/ACT for those schools. That does mean grades matter more, but the truth is that LACS outside of the top 50 or so are delighted to have students like your daughter–students with B averages who apply themselves and participate in activities and are social. She’d probably have a great time and get a good education at one of those schools.

      • Sarabeth

        Just want to second the SLAC thing – I teach in a SLAC that is not far outside the top 50, and we accept lots of students like your daughter. And they thrive, and go on to successful careers in their fields. At my school, the issue would be that your daughter’s grades might not qualify her for merit aid, so money might be more of an issue. But she’d almost certainly get in.

    • Blonde Lawyer

      I had a really long reply that was eaten.

      1.) Me – my mom didn’t go to college, dad has a GED. Fun story, when he retired he was managing three shifts of people w/ masters in chemistry. He got his experience in the navy. My parents believed the bell curve and were perfectly happy with c’s because they were average. I upped my game my junior and senior year because my friends were going to go to good colleges and I wanted to as well. I convinced my guidance counselor to let me take some honors classes too. After getting a D in Algebra II (like the other poster on here who did the same, I got a late in life diagnosis of ADHD) I stopped taking math and science classes and took sociology and other liberal arts classes I could excel in. Got into a good school and good grades in college and law school.

      2.) Today’s schools are different from when I was in school. Most educators are not allowed to believe in the bell curve anymore. While my college had a forced bell curve (only so many A’s and B’s allowed) teachers today are considered failing if too many kids have C’s. C doesn’t mean average anymore. Every kid is expected to be able to get an A (which I really disagree with). So, what I would look at is her rank. In my undergrad, my GPA was a 3.2 but I was in the top 15% of my class. At another school a 3.2 might be right in the middle of the class. If she’s above 50% I wouldn’t worry too much. If she’s below, then her C is more like a D or F in her school and I would be more worried.

    • Anonna

      NOPE. I was a B student in high school, at best. I think it was a combination of several things: 1) I went to a very competitive high school where unless you were an AP, A student, superstar athlete whatever, you were a dud, sort of. I got sick of all the competitiveness so I guess I sort of opted out. 2) I figured Bs would get me into college and I didn’t have any illusions of getting into or desire to try for a “top” school. 3) I did not understand the doors an Ivy or semi-ivy would open, and no foresight. 4) I was so sick of everyone harping about my grades all the time I wanted to crawl in a hole and think about anything but schoolwork. 5) I hated school and all the silly rules that went along with it.

      I doubt many of you would consider me “overachieving” now as I’m not BigLaw etc. etc., but I consider myself successful in my field and some very smart people think I am really good at my job. But the world of high competition is not for me, never has been.

      I did much better in college/law school/grad school because it was up to me to achieve and nobody was breathing down my neck all the time, wringing their hands about my average grades.

  8. Separated in same home?

    Does anyone have any advice on separating while still together? I’m living a bit of a nightmare. Have a 2 year old and am 35 weeks pregnant. My husband is a great dad but we’ve been fighting a ton for months and this week it just felt like it came to a head. He said really awful things to me, bordering on abusive, and when it comes down to it I think he’s just rather entitled and letting himself get annoyed by everything I do. I wish I could move out for a while but I obviously can’t in my state and with our daughter. We haven’t talked in a few days, and it’s just odd and depressing. I’m usually the one that reaches out to resolve things, whether it was my or his “fault,” but I can’t this time, and honestly, I think it just deepens his sense of entitlement and taking me for granted. He’s just become very disrespectful and if it wasn’t for our child and my pregnancy I would move out, for at least a while.

    • Nightingale

      My husband and I have been (not legally) separated since the summer and still living together. No kids. But he was never abusive and we don’t fight, just have grown apart. We agreed to see other people; I have and he has not. He wants to stay together and I do not. Sometimes it is awkward. But we get along fine, we live in a high COL area and have a very low mortgage on a house that is very close to both of our works so moving out is not really ideal for either of us.

    • Anon in NYC

      No real advice, but you have my sympathy. My parents separated and lived in the same house while getting a divorce. They did not have a good relationship, and I know that it was personally taxing for my mom. I never discussed it with my dad. My dad refused to move out because he didn’t want to have to pay for a place to live, and my mom wanted the house, so she was paying the mortgage on her own. It was a condition in their divorce agreement that he had to move out by a certain date. Therapy was really helpful for my mom through the process. I think it will be awkward regardless of whether you have a good or bad relationship, but hopefully you’ll be able to co-exist relatively peacefully given that you will have 2 small kids in the house.

  9. Debt free!

    I needed to tell someone – I finished paying off my student loans today and am now officially debt free! I paid back almost 100k in 4.5 years and also bought a house and got married during that time, so I am pretty proud of myself. It was a long hard road of living on a very strict budget and having my friends and family repeatedly make comments about how I was “cheap” or implying that I had lots of money when in actual fact a huge percentage of my salary was going straight to debt. Anyway, I am excited to start my post-debt life. Hooray!

    • nutella

      Wow! What an accomplishment! I hope you celebrate! And I hope you have great plans for starting the new year with a financial plan to continue to save towards whatever goals (now that you are in the habit) but NOW with a little more room for indulgences!! You are way ahead of the game!!

    • Sydney Bristow

      Congratulations!! That is amazing!

      Inspired by your post, I just paid 3/4 of the unexpected bonus I received toward my student loans.

    • the gold digger

      Your family was not doing it right! Congratulations! That is quite an accomplishment. You will sleep so much better at night without debt looming over you.

  10. Denver

    I posted that my divorce was finalized a few weeks back and you were all so supportive. I’m really struggling with dealing with my ex, who is emotionally manipulative. Twice in the past week he’s missed events at our daughter’s school. He continues to call me names. He hasn’t gotten a car or a place, and so to maintain his relationship w our daughter, I let him spend a lot of time at my place (and I leave). I know I need to enforce better boundaries. I’m curious if anyone has been there and has websites or anything to recommend.

    • Ellen

      Yay! Open Threads! I love Open Threads but these shoe’s look like Army Boots! How can I ever expect to find a guy to MARRY me IF I am wearing Army boots? FOOEY!

      As for the OP, Hug’s to you. It must be so dificult haveing to deal with an ex that won’t go away. Kind of like a cold sore, but you must consider your child. To the extent HE provides value to your child, then you will need to keep him part of your life, but the sooner he gets his tuchus out of your house the better for you. You need to start a new life w/o him hanging around the place, albeeit with your daughter. Tell him : “DONT GO AWAY MAD, JUST GO AWAY!” That is what I told Sheketovits, who constantly wanted to worm his way back into my life.

      Once you get rid of him, you will be abel to start a new life, hopefully with a man that respects you and your daughter. We in the HIVE will be praying this happens VERY soon for you! YAY!!!!

      • Theresa

        The guy who marries Ellen will need infinite patience. Let’s hope she has good bedroom skills because it’s not her intellect that guys will be attracted to. The father also sounds like a nightmare!

    • Wildkitten

      Don’t let him spend time at your place. Don’t care if he misses stuff. You have enough to do dealing with just you – take care of yourself and your kiddo and let him figure his ish out himself. Don’t feel like you have to keep him around, acting like a jerk, for your daughter’s sake. Your daughter will benefit from seeing you enforce appropriate boundaries with jerks.

      • MU JD

        Yep, Wildkitten speaks the truth. You are not your ex’s keeper. Stop feeling bad for his shortcomings, stop trying to make up for his issues. You have two people to worry about now – you and your daughter. Your ex is an adult and needs to learn how to take care of himself.

        Good luck, it’s not easy in the beginning, but with time, it will get better.

        • Ruby

          agree except for some of us it does not get better. prepare yourself for the marathon by doubling down on some good things for you and your kid, whether just quiet fun moments or other stuff. mine is a total nightmare, could never have predicted, and hasn’t eased up in years. so i focus on managing the stress in other ways. and setting boundaries on how much time i devote to dealing with it, where i can.

      • Anon

        Yes, I am normally all for supporting the kids having a relationship with both parents, but you do not want to model this behavior for your daughter. She needs to see that women should set appropriate boundaries and enforce them. You cannot force him to have a relationship with his daughter – that is his loss.

      • Anon in NYC

        OP, I agree with this, but I also want to say that I understand this is easier said than done. You definitely do not, and should not, try to make your ex a better father, but I understand why you want to do things to make keep up your daughter’s relationship with him.

        Perhaps a good way to start setting boundaries is to stop letting your ex use your home. Tell him that he has to come pick her up and take her elsewhere. He will get upset, and he may call you names, but 1) unless you are violating a custody agreement (doubtful), you are not doing anything wrong, and 2) you survived his emotional manipulation for years and you are finally free, so you don’t have to deal with it any longer!

    • Anonymous

      As always, agree completely with Wildkitten. Also, read The Unexpected Legacy of Divorce pronto.

      • Wow....

        I was not familiar with this book, but the title made me curious….

        Reading the brief description of the book’s findings is like being hit by a thunderbolt.

        My parents had a terrible marriage. It has damaged my brothers and I just as the book describes. My youngest brother and I have terrible fear of commitment, think our relationships (and the idea of ever getting married) is doomed, and avoid conflict like the plague. Our older brother is married in a terrible situation with shocking parallels to my parents….. and to see their child start to be impacted is just heart wrenching.

        Just….. ugh.

        I’m so glad I am not having children.

        Sorry for the downer.

    • Wildkitten

      Thanks ladies! Remember – JerkfaceDad can figure his ish out and come be a respectful human to you and your daughter whenever he wants (like – in 6 months, or a year). That’s up to him! Until then – model boundaries. Don’t teach junior that it’s appropriate to be treated like cr*p by men.

    • Anon

      I had a therapist tell me basically that I needed to accept the fact that my relationship with my child was going to be different that my ex relationship with our child. I was going to be at school meetings and plays and plan camp and all that. My ex wasn’t. He was going to take my child to a fun place once a month or so and that wS their relationship. Once I accepted that and didn’t expect the same type of relationship that I had with my father for my child and his father or as between me and my child, wow, did things get easier. Yes it makes me sad but accepting it was just different and it’s ok made it so much better.

      Also, if your child knows they can depend on you, knows you’ll be there for all the “stuff”, that’s what matters.

      Ex can take child to the park, library, even McDonald’s play yard (who cares), but not your house.

  11. WestCoast Lawyer

    Perhaps a sign of how quite my office is right now, but I’m dying to see pictures of Sheryl Sandberg in Doc Martins. Does anyone have a link?

  12. ezt

    I have a feeling this topic will cause some mild controversy, but here goes. I’m Canadian, and of Asian origin. So both culturally in my home, as well as where I grew up, taking your shoes off when you enter any home — your own or someone else’s — was the norm. Now I live in the U.S., and I’m married to an American. My in-laws walk all around my home with their shoes on, and it honestly makes my skin crawl. I know it’s the norm here (or at least, in their community), but I find it so gross, especially since we have a toddler who eats off and actually licks the floor. They are totally lovely people and aren’t being deliberately rude or anything — they know my preference and they try to comply, but they just forget all. the. time, and I hate harping on it, and I can just tell that they think that I am crazy and annoying for even saying it once in a while. Should I just give up? What’s everyone’s opinion on a no-shoe household and whether it’s okay to enforce it on your guests?

    • Anonymous

      I’m also Canadian, and I find shoes in the house just not okay, it’s so icky. Maybe try buying a bunch of washable slippers and leaving them in a basket near the door? As a small reminder?

    • Wildkitten

      Can you afford to buy a Roomba and a Mint? I don’t wear shoes at home, but my floor was pretty gross anyway until I got my Roomba.

    • House Mouse

      I’d buy a couple pairs of nice slippers (maybe even monogram it with Pop and Gram or whatever your son will call them), and then have a sign on top of the shoe rack that says “Please take off shoes in the house” or something along those lines. If the in-laws forget, just ask them “do you mind changing into the slippers?”

      I’d do this every time they forget – make it consistent. Don’t apologize, don’t make it seem like a big deal. You are not harping.

      • Senior Attorney

        This sounds like a good idea. I’m American and firmly on Team Shoes in the House, but it’s your house and you get to make the rules. Be consistent and pleasant and eventually they will get the message.

        • Anonymous

          What does your husband think? Does he want his parents to have to do this?

          • ezt

            He doesn’t have a visceral reaction like I do, having grown up with it – but he agrees that it’s gross, definitely wants them to do it, and steps up to remind them frequently. But they still side-eye me (mildly), even when he’s the one doing the reminding (I assume because he never cared before my arrival on the scene ten years ago, since he was still in college then and all-round disgusting :)).

          • Anonymous

            There are a lot of rules that older relatives get exempted from. This should probably be one of them. I don’t think it’s harming anyone and it’s just annoying you. I would never dream of telling my parents to do something in my house. [It might be different if they smoked; then I would ask them to please smoke outside.] It really rubs me the wrong way.

          • ezt

            I would agree with you without question if they were a) really elderly (they are vigorous and hearty early 60s) or b) occasional visitors (but they’re here pretty frequently – which I am glad about!) I know I asked for feedback, but I must say reading these answers is making me dig in my (bare) heels!

        • the gold digger

          I think a lot of this has to do with “Lives in a place with snow and ice, which you don’t want to track into the house” and “outside, inside, what’s the difference?”

          I never had the habit of taking my shoes off to come inside until I was tricked into moving to the frozen north. Now I know what a mud tray is, which is knowledge I never wanted to have.

    • KittyKat

      Also Canadian with American in-laws. Shoes in the home is gross, harp all you want. They are not old making more cleaning work for you but also being disrespectful

    • Anonymous

      There was a lengthy discussion on this a month or so back, in the context of party guests. I came down on the side of not making party guests take off their shoes (in fact, I think I said if you need them to do this, you aren’t really ready to entertain). I do feel a little differently about family, but end up in a similar place ultimately, especially if you see that they are trying. (BTW, it’s good for your toddler to be exposed to the germs!)

      • Canadian Anon

        Is it really good for toddlers to be exposed to dirt from street shoes? I thought the hygiene hypothesis stuff was more about not over sterilizing everything and that ‘natural dirt’ is good (the whole farm kids have lower allergies thing). I definitely wouldn’t touch the bottom of my shoe and then lick my hand so I don’t think it’s great for my toddler to do that either.

        • Anonymous

          My toddler had frightening germ hygiene (one hand was in her mouth 50% of the time and then the slobber got everywhere). She and her sister (slobber recipient) are frighteningly healthy. We are shoe-in-house people and have wild rabbits in our yard (and they are incontent and the extent of their pooping only became apparent years later during a drought where are yard consisted of dead grass and rabbit poop). Not a big deal.

          I’m convinced that yucky winters is what makes you Canadians so shoe adverse. We don’t wear wear outside boots inside when they are wet, but don’t see why you make the fuss otherwise.

        • Wildkitten

          Yes. It’s good. Better if you have dogs that go out and roll in fields and sh*t and come back and lick your kids, but street dirt is better than no dirt.

        • WestCoast Lawyer

          I don’t know about good for you, but my toddler once picked up my husband’s sneaker and licked the bottom before I could get to him. It was disgusting (and even if you were 2 – why would you do that?), but no apparent harm came of it.

          • Anonymama

            Yeah my kid once licked the sidewalk in the mission district of San Francisco… No harm done. But f they’re really just forgetting can you get a designated set of inside shoes for each of them and keep them in a visible place when they come in, so it’s harder for them to overlook? And would help if they have foot issues and don’t want to go barefoot for some reason.

        • Anonymous

          I don’t know about “good for” but as anecdata, my kid crawled around on a floor coverd with dirt and dog hair (we had a roomba, and I swept every day, but it was impossible). She also licked rocks that she picked up on the ground, and put sand in her mouth at the beach. Kids are gross.

          She’s 2, doesn’t do any of that anymore, and has a fantastic immune system. She is sick maybe 4x per year and she goes to daycare full time.

      • Anonymous

        There was a lengthy discussion about this a year ago, too, because I posted asking for advice! A couple hosted a holiday party in their home. I wore a festive pair of pumps with no socks or hose. The weather was mild (no snow/ice/mud), they don’t have kids, and they didn’t mention the no shoes rule ahead of time. When I arrived, I walked in not knowing I was committing a faux pas and they asked me to remove my shoes (in front of other guests). I complied. I then spent the night uncomfortable and embarrassed because my feet were freezing and my pedicure was a mess. It didn’t help that I felt singled out in front of everyone as the only person at the party who had not visited the couple’s home before. Which probably isn’t actually a big deal, but I have social anxiety issues so it wasn’t a great feeling to be called out when I was already anxious about (a) going to a party (b) in an unfamiliar environment (c) with a bunch of people I’d never met. I’m not proud of this, but the whole thing made me feel very panicky and close to tears; I gave myself a very stern talking-to so I could be a gracious guest and not a crying weirdo.

        That said, I now plan to remove my shoes every time I visit their home. I would never dream of disregarding their wishes like that – especially now that they have a child – even though the way they initially asked me was not that great.

    • Anon

      I was born in the U.S. and while it’s not quite the taboo as it is other places, plenty of people want you to take your shoes off in their homes. It’s rude if you have told them multiple times of your preference and they ignore you.

    • Canadian Anon

      Canadian with European husband – both his family and my family take off shoes. I was completely amazed when someone told me that Americans wear shoes inside their homes – so gross- especially if small children were around! I had assumed that characters on American television shows/films just did that because it would interrupt the scene to remove their shoes.

      For your in-laws – could you get them really nice monogrammed black slippers with a hard sole to wear inside your house? If they are always used to wearing shoes, they may feel strange about being barefoot. eg – Lands End has suede moc slippers that might be good

    • Anonymous

      People here have dogs and dog feet go outside and then on the floor (that the toddler then licks). And then there are the cats that step in the litterbox and onto the floor (that the toddler then licks).

      Studies show that children that grow up with animals have fewer allergies and seem to be healthier. I think it’s because of the gross germs, not in spite of them.

      If you can’t make the animals take off their feet, you can’t make grownups take off their shoes. Kids will be fine. You can take a Xanax.

      • Canadian Anon

        I think this is pretty rude- it’s possible to disagree and remain civil. Dogs go outside in the back yard, not out to play in traffic/street dirt. It’s common here to wash their feet in the winter after you take them for a walk because if they lick their paws, they ingest the street salt from snowclearing which is dangerous.

        • Anonymous

          Poop > whatever is on a sidewalk

          Much of the US doesn’t even have snow, or much of it, or we drive everwhere. I’m in the SE US and cannot see what the fuss is about.

          When I was in a city with lots of people living on the street, merchants would hose off the sidewalk every morning to get rid of the pee (and whatever else) was on them.

        • ezt

          Ha – see, I knew this would be controversial! People get really riled up about it, I assume because I/we are saying that something they do routinely is gross. And I do get that, I’m not saying anyone who wears shoes at home is personally disgusting, but I just find it so much easier to keep a clean house and it’s what I’m used to.

          • Anonymous

            Seriously? I have children and stuff tracked in from shoes is probably 200th on the list of why I don’t have a clean house. I wear pumps to work every day — I don’t think they are trouble-creating. I change when I get home into crocs (but those go inside and outside).

        • Canadian Anon

          Yeah – seriously – “An EPA study, reported in Environmental Science & Technology provided the first proof that unhealthy herbicides can be tracked into residences on shoes. The researchers found that the herbicide 2,4-D could be easily imported inside via shoes for up to a week after application. And not only that, but the “track-in” exposures of these chemicals may exceed those from residues on non-organic fresh fruits and vegetables.”http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/es980580o

          • Anonymous

            Herbicides? First we are talking about “street dirt” and now herbacides. Are we on a farm? Or in Brooklyn?

            Shoe h8ers are going to hate.

            Shoe people are going to stay shoe people.

          • Canadian Anon

            Tons of people use 2.4-D on their residential lawns – it’s not banned everywhere

          • Anonymous

            There’s tons of cr@p in the world. Tons. And if you leave the city for the country, there’s tons of real cr@p. Even if you take off your shoes, we are swimming in germs.

      • nutella

        Except some people choose to not have dogs in their home because they think that is also gross. I would hope a guest would ask before bringing an animal into my home! Just like a guest should remove shoes if asked.

        • Anonymous

          I think that the litter box is even grosser. If you’ve ever had mice (incontinent! they poop everywhere), you’d probably get over the litter box thing though.

          The world is yucky. And full of germs. That’s not going to change with your shoes.

      • Anonymous

        It’s not just germs. I couldn’t care less about the germs (my kids are being exposed to them via daycare anyway), but shoes track in a lot of chemicals like pesticides. If you make an effort to eat organic and use green products, the amount of chemical exposure from shoes can be significant.

        • Anonymous

          It’s also pollen. I have severe allergies and don’t have time to vacuum and mop the floors to get the pollen before it blows up onto all of the other surfaces. The amount someone would track in is more than enough to knock me out for two weeks.

    • Anonymous

      When in Rome . . .

      You are not seriously talking about making American grandparents remove their shoes? Will not happen.

    • moss

      I am an in-law of an Asian woman and she made it clear from the start that shoes come off when you come into her house. We follow her rules. I think your in-laws are being disrespectful.

      • Ruby

        agree. i am american but have moved around world. i always, always ask preference when entering any home. i look for a shoe pile if it is there i just take off my shoes. i’m no shoes in house at home, but don’t enforce it during parties in summer (yes in winter) or for maintenance people (hard bc they have the worst shoes but feel bad for them, some do take off their shoes themselves). i love my copper colored boot tray. people do like using it.
        they are being rude. it’s your home.

    • Senior Attorney

      I think your mistake has been to be too apologetic. Maybe say your New Year’s Resolution (or your Christmas gift to yourself or whatever) is going to be to keep your house shoe-free, so fair warning — you’ll be kindly enforcing the rule. Just have the courage of your convictions! If you do that along with providing house slippers, you can make it happen!

      • Anonymous

        eeew

        I would not wear someone else’s slippers. Epecially with bare feet. No no no not happening.

        I think you need to have dedicated slippers in the right sizes that the inlaws actually like AND socks to really make this work. It still might now work. But no way am I ever putting my bare feet into some else’s slippers.

        • Wildkitten

          The awesome suggestion above was to have slippers at home that are just for the Grandparents. Monogrammed with their nicknames (Gram, Pop Pop). I think that is adorable.

        • Senior Attorney

          I was referring to getting them their own slippers to keep at OP’s house.

    • Beth

      Canadian too, my folks have hip/knee problems and have indoor shoes – usually Birkenstock sandals or clogs and occasionally leather slippers – because they get pain barefoot. We have matts and outdoor/indoor shoes by every door so it feels natural to me, but that’s because we grew up with it. For people who didn’t grow up with it, but who seem fine with it, I just remind them quickly each time they come in/leave – they don’t care because it’s done without judgement and they want me to be happy. The extra dirt is good for immunity for kids though – it’s just really bad for floors to have gravel/salt from the roads because it scratches and ruins them so for 6 months of the year our shoes are too wet/filthy to be inside anyways.

    • APC

      I feel like this thread devolved into pro or anti shoes but back to your question – its your home and your preferences rule. I don’t mind shoes in my home but my brother and SIL are staunchly against and we all comply. They have a little entry hall with a shoe bench. They actually also have a small baby gate after the bench that gives even more ‘cue’ to take your shoes off. Is there any sort of way you can put a physical barrier or threshold to give the cue that it’s time for shoes to come off?

      • Anonymous

        +1. Or leave some shoe/boots by the front door as another reminder that this house removes shoes.

        • Runner 5

          Shoes by the front door works for me. I hate visiting super tidy homes because with no shoes by the door you don’t know if you should remove yours or not.

    • Anonymous

      Your house your rules! There’s nothing wrong with asking guests to remove their shoes, especially if they are your in-laws and over a lot. You can even put a cutesy little sign by your front door about little hands/feet touching the floor (look on etsy for these). My husband and I are white americans and we definitely do not wear shoes in our house, and everyone I’ve ever had come over automatically takes their shoes off.

    • Anon

      It’s a Canadian thing to take off shoes?? I had no idea. I’m Asian — and a germophobe — so I’ve grown up with that even though I grew up in America. Had no idea Canadians did it too. Don’t even get me started how gross it is to have animals in the house — also a uniquely Am. thing I will never get.

      If your inlaws aren’t used to being barefoot, why not ask them to bring (or buy them – in case you don’t trust them to buy a new pair) a pair of indoor shoes to be kept in your home. That way they aren’t shoeless but you know for a fact that those shoes have never been out. Could work with slippers too.

      • Anonymous

        It’s a thing in parts of the US too, particularly in the parts of that have snow – because cold and wet tracks on the carpet are not cool.

        • ezt

          I live in a part of the US that has snow though, and my in-laws live in a part with a TON of snow! So I guess that’s not a general rule…although that does seem to be part of the root of the general Canadian norm.

          Thanks all for your comments. It’s interesting to me that everyone — myself included — gets mildly worked up about this issue! Maybe because it’s one of those things that’s really a cultural difference, but people who practice it offer a common sense/objective rationale rather than a cultural/subjective one?

          • Anonymous

            Maybe because you called a different culture gross and disgusting instead of different?

          • ezt

            Okay, take it easy. Whether or not people wear shoes at home is a cultural thing, sure, but that’s not the same as it being some highly personal and protected cultural practice. And it’s also obvious from the discussion here that actually, there’s no broad American cultural practice on this issue. So no, I don’t think I “called a different culture gross.”

    • Legally Brunette

      This is what I say — “Can you take your shoes off? We don’t wear shoes in our house. Thanks.”

      If they walk in the house with shoes before I have had a chance to catch them — I say, “Oh, hope you don’t mind, we don’t wear shoes in our house!” And usually they profusely apologize and take them off.

      Just keep repeating the above over and over again until they get it.

      That’s it. No big explanation. No apologizing. Your house, your rules. Wearing shoes inside the house makes my skin crawl too. So gross.

      • Anonymous

        Does that mean that the people go barefoot? I would be so squeamish at that (even if a person has spotless floors). Are hosts cool with barefoot? Or do they want non-feet non-shoes?

        • Anonymous

          Have you heard of socks? Or tights? It’s way grosser to go barefoot inside a closed-toe shoe (that becomes a smelly, dirty breeding ground for bacteria) than it is to go barefoot on someone’s floor. The only time I can see this being an issue is in the summer when people are in flip-flops/sandals that aren’t worn with socks.

          • Anonymous

            If you take me by surprise, you’re getting my bare feet that have been in shoes all day. I wear socks to the gym and if I’m hiking, but not generally. Normal for where I live.

          • 4:24

            Oh I don’t care if people are barefoot in my house. But if people want to not be barefoot they can easily wear socks or tights (I also have guest slippers but I get why some people don’t want to use those; I personally don’t really like sharing slippers with people).

        • Legally Brunette

          Yes, people go barefoot. Or people can wear socks/tights. I don’t care either way. Just no shoes. I’m not a fan of slippers or house shoes either. An as Indian, I always learned no shoes in the house under any circumstances – and slippers seems to defeat that since it is technically a kind of shoe.

          • Anonymous

            Don’t their feet get cold? I never walk around in just tights or socks either because on wood or hard floors it is a slippery death trap.

        • Mary Ann

          Squeamish about going barefoot at someone’s house? Wow! Those must be some very special bottoms of the feet! FANCY!

    • TigerMom

      Not a hige ask, just make the request in a nice and respectful way and get the husband on board with this too. We have this rule in our house as well, and it really hit home to my parents in law when my husband talked about how dirty public bathroom floors are and that we track all those germs around the house.

    • Anonymous

      I am a white American and I am 100% on board with no shoes household. I ask all my guests to take off their shoes. I was also surprised by the thread a few weeks ago when so many people said this was just not done in the US. I have lived in the bay area, the Midwest and New England and all three places I had a good number of friends with shoes-free households. It was especially common in the bay area. It may not be as common here as it is in Europe or Asia but it’s certainly not unheard of.

      • Anonymous

        I think it’s coastal and upper-midwest (where there are nasty winters). Not mid-Atlantic or SE US at all, rural or urban.

        • Tetra

          I learned to do it when I lived in Chicago, but now that I’m in DC I still do it. All our shoes (except fancy heels/occasion shoes) are on a rack next to the front door. We don’t make guests take off their shoes, but often they will when they see us doing it.

        • Anonymous

          All of my family/friends have shoe-free houses in Philly. Maybe it’s more of a class thing – my mom didn’t care until she got her floors redone and god forbid you scratch the floors.

          • Anonymous

            I’ve always thought it was more of upper middle class thing too. Maybe because those people have been exposed to other cultures more.

      • Windchime

        I have lived in the Pacific Northwest for my entire life and it’s pretty much always been no shoes in the house. The first thing we do when we enter our home (and my parents’ home) is to kick off our shoes. And before people say that it’s because of the rain, it’s not–I grew up on the dry side of Washington (but we do have snow in the winter, so maybe that’s it?). We are always either barefoot or in socks/slippers while we’re at home.

    • No shoes

      I have a “mostly” shoe-free house because I have downstairs neighbors and wood floors. My shoes are racked in my entry hall and people usually ask. When I explain that I don’t want to disturb the neighbors, most people are happy to take their shoes off.

      If I forget something as I am going out the door, I am not taking off my shoes to go get it.

      I live on the west coast so taking off shoes is pretty common but I grew up in the Midwest where only neat-niks expected shoes off. So I see both sides of the debate.

      I do have pet peeves about some shoe-less houses. First, please warn me so I can pack slippers. Please have a seat in case I need to sit down to unbuckle a heel. Please have a place for my shoes: I respect your house so take care of my shoes. Have a shoe rack in a place that is safe from the shoe-stealing dog. I do not want to have to hunt through a bunch of random shoes when I leave.

      If people have a foot issue and require orthodic shoes, I wouldn’t ask them to take their shoes off. Those are medical devices for their feet.

    • Anonymous

      Ugh, I live in the US and I want to move to Canada after reading this thread. The idea of someone walking across my floor – that I walk on barefoot – in shoes that have stepped in dog poo, walked on pesticide-treated grass, been in public restrooms, etc., absolutely makes my skin crawl. Team #NoShoesInside forever!!

      • Anonymous

        What about your bathroom? I don’t know that I’d want to barefoot in mine (other than for bathing) let alone someone else’s. My poor feet!

        • Anonymous

          I consider myself pretty squeamish and germophobic and I have no problem being barefoot in someone else’s bathroom, especially for just a couple minutes. It’s just not that big a deal? The frat houses I hung out at in college thankfully did not have a no shoe policy, but most people manage to keep their homes cleaner than a frat house.

        • Anon

          You can get tiles for bathrooms now. No reason to still floor it in thorns and thistles.

          • Anonymous

            But babies and dogs inevitably lick floors. Most adults can refrain from licking their feet. And, unless you clean your floors immediately after your guests leave, your family will track the floor stuff everywhere, including into beds where it will come into contact with your hands and face.

    • Grossy McGrosserson

      After reading this thread, I’m fairly certain I’m the “grossest” person on here.

      I wear my shoes indoors, and my dog and cat routinely sleep in our bed.

      *Shrug*

      That being said, if I’m a guest at your home, I follow your rules. Shoes off, purple-clothing-only, whatever. Thanks for inviting me!

      • Anonymous

        Eh, I think we are tied. I have three dogs that sleep in the bed, sometimes wear my shoes in the house, and even frequently go barefoot outside! Amazing I’m still alive, I tell ya!

        However, I’ll happily take my shoes off at my friend’s house. Although I always forget, unless I see other shoes by the door!

      • Blonde Lawyer

        We tend to take our shoes off in our house but I also tend to run outside or into the garage in slippers/socks/barefoot and defeat the purpose as well. And I have a dog and cat.

      • cbackson

        My dog sleeps in my bed, but I wipe his feet off before bedtime. Otherwise I would be too grossed out…

      • Anonymous

        Ha, I am adamantly no shoes inside but my tiny dog sleeps in bed with me. Maybe that makes me a hypocrite (although we’ve never had to be strict with guests about the no-shoes policy; everyone who’s visited has seen the pile of shoes by the door and taken theirs off w/o us asking). I never thought I would let a dog in my bed but she has terrible separation anxiety and just cried and cried until we let her on the bed. I do make an effort to wipe her feet before bed but if I’m being honest it only happens about 20% of the time. We do bathe her weekly though.

    • SuziStockbroker

      What an interesting thread!

      I am Canadian and everyone pretty much takes their shoes off when they come into someone’s house where I live. I had no idea though that (many) Americans don’t do this.

      My MIL leaves slippers at our house. Actually i think she has 3 pairs of indoor shoes at my house right now and she very rarely comes over.

      I definitely thinking buying them their own slippers is a nice way to go.

      • ezt

        I had thought about getting them slippers, but personalizing them with their grandparent-names takes it up a notch, thanks. I think it makes it a sweeter gift and thereby dispels any sense that it’s a passive-aggressive reminder to take off shoes – more like “since I am forcing you guys to take off your shoes, have these nice fluffy slippers!” And luckily they have unique and silly grandparent nicknames that they love. Thanks House Mouse!

    • Wink

      I don’t know if it’s from growing up in the South, or just how my own family is, but I would find it terribly ungracious to have a host inform me “We don’t wear shoes in this house, please take yours off now.” Not only does that create potential discomfort for me (what if my feet smell, what if I have painful psoriasis I want to protect, what if I hate going barefoot, what if my pants are now too long because my heels are by your door) but, worse in my opinion, I have been made to feel that I, a living, breathing person, rank considerably lower than a few square feet of wool (worse, nylon). I prefer to treat you as an honored guest. I can vacuum/spot treat/sweep when you leave.

      • Anon

        I think your comment made the difference clear to me– One camp (those who want the shoes to come off) puts the hosts’ needs/desires above guests’. The other camp (those who say let them keep the shoes on) puts the guests’ needs/desires above the hosts’. I don’t think either camp is wrong. Guests really should be respectful of a host’s home, but also hosts should ensure guests are comfortable.

        Anyway, just an observation.

      • Suburban

        +1000 and I’m from the ny suburbs. My mother would kill me if she found out that I asked someone to do this.

    • shoes

      I’m with you ezt. American, caucasian, grew up in Chicago and grew up in a shoes off in the house family. And I continue it as an adult – in San Francisco, New York, Boston, and when I lived overseas. Your home, your choice. For me it is a no-brainer. I don’t have a lot of big lavish parties where people complain about taking of shoes, I guess. Or maybe it’s just the friends I choose are mellow types.

      I have found that people who wear shoes in your house are also people that suddenly have their shoes/feet on your couch… on your table…. dirty smears on your bathroom floor…. Yeah, real nice….

      My place is clean, and I like it to stay that way.

    • Amanda

      We dealt with this exact situation (though everyone involved is white and American). I bought paper shoe covers from Amazon (the kind they use in the hospital) and said something like “it seems that maybe it’s a real pain for you to take off your shoes, which I totally get, so look at this great thing I found online! Here, there’s a basket of them by the front door and you can slip them on and then throw them away each day. Awesome, right?” Surprisingly, one of my in-laws said “wow, thanks, it was really hard for me to take my shoes on and off.” They still forgot occasionally but it improved things a lot.

    • MDMom

      I am American (shoes in house variety) with Asian in laws. We generally don’t wear shoes in our house just because slippers are more comfy. But we aren’t strict about it and I often run to mailbox in my slippers etc. I don’t ask my parents or other guests to take their shoes off. Some do, some don’t. Here is my question- is it weird to bring my own slippers to other people’s houses? I love this idea. I try to remember to bring socks when I’m not otherwise wearing them but it gets uncomfortable standing on a tile floor in just socks.

      Also, definitely may have a bench. It is a real pain to sit on the floor or awkwardly balance on one foot to take off non slip on shoes. I actually find that my shoe choices are somewhat dictated by whether we’re going to my family’s house or my husbands. Knee high boots without zippers, I miss you. So overall it’s a nice policy but can definitely be inconvenient. And I think I’m going to look into some compact “travel slippers”-weird or ok?

      • Ruby

        Funny, I went to a few parties this weekend and picked my socks out accordingly not to clash with my of course red sweater outfits after ending up last weekend with bright blue socks under boots and not thinking about taking them off. I assume no shoes will be the case.

  13. Nancy

    I am not sure if this is a “proper” topic for the forum or not so feel free to delete if needed. Otherwise…I have a fairly large sectional with a chaise at one end. In need of a new coffee table and not good with the whole decorating thing nor do I possess good spatial reasoning skills so cannot decide if the new table should be a round one or a square one. I want soothing that guests can use to put their glasses/plates while sitting on the sectional.

    Also any coffee tables you have been especially happy with under $800.00? No glass tops or sharp edges please. Thank you in advance for help with either or both topics. To make this search even more difficult I live in a very small midwestern town so have to try and view/search on line rather than seeing in person. I do get to Chicago fairly often so I could follow up & view tables in person next month.

    • Anonymous

      One thing to think about that you may not have already considered is how high your sofa is. Stores that skew more modern tend to have lower coffee tables, so if you don’t have a sofa from a similar more modern store that is lower, they may not work as well. If you buy your sofa at Ethan Allan and your coffee table at CB2, you’ll be leaning over and putting your wine by your ankles. Check the height measurement.

    • marketingchic

      Most furniture stores will throw in free interior design, many of them even come to your home to evaluate it (though depends on how close you are to the store.)

      If I was near Chicago I’d go to Room & Board.

    • Senior Attorney

      I got my coffee table at West Elm and I love it. They have several stores in Chicago so I recommend checking it out!9

  14. Ultrasound

    I’m just over nine weeks and had a small blood clot today. I called the midwife and she wants me to get an ultrasound. Going tomorrow at 7 am. I had one at 6 weeks due to some spotting and there was a good heartbeat and everything looked fine. Trying not to worry but I’m worrying. For once 7 am on a Saturday can’t come soon enough…

    • ezt

      Hang in there! I had some bleeding at 8 weeks and it didn’t turn out to be anything.

      • anon

        Sending good thoughts and a happy few stories for you to think of over the next few hours:

        My wife passed a humongous scary clot when she was 7 weeks pregnant with our very healthy now-3-year-old (clotting so huge and scary that I thought the pregnancy was absolutely definitely over). Like I said, he’s an awesome and hilarious 3-year-old now.

        Wife also had moderate spotting at 6-8 weeks with our very healthy now-newborn and all was absolutely fine for every moment after.

        Finally, my mom had such serious bleeding when a few months pregnant with me that she was admitted to the hospital (back in the day, of course). Here I am!

        As our fertility doc said during the ultrasound we demanded for the clotting incident with our first-born, “welcome to the rest of your life, where you never stop worrying about your kids.”

        Best of luck tomorrow!

        • Ultrasound

          Thank you, hive! It all looked good and it was such a relief. We even saw the little guy wiggling and waving his arms and feet. Phew. Now on to the next scary thing that freaks me out…

    • Ruby

      I had a subchoriatric hemorraghe for over a month around 9 weeks. Scary, awful, painful, she is healthy and 3.5 now, but at the time they told me nothing you can do, it will be viable or not. Daily torture. Fingers crossed for you. Life takes its course… you will get through it… no matter what. But there is zero enjoyable about that experience.

  15. Legal Recruiter -DC?

    Any recommendations? Have posted here before but back story – 2005 grad of a top 10 law school; top 10% of my class/law review; fed clerkship; 8 yrs in biglaw in general commercial lit where I didn’t make partner and got pushed out. Landed in the fed govt at an ok agency doing securities work.

    Anyone know a recruiter that would work w me to find a smaller/boutique/growing firm in DC? I really want to be in the private sector and was talking to recruiters as I was getting pushed out and they had zero interest – bc a senior associate w/ o a book is hard to place. A few even said they prefer 4-5th yr associates bc they can easily be moved from one big firm to the next. I couldn’t even find people who’d return my calls and those that would were content to submit me for 4th yr associate openings and when it inevitably didn’t work (bc there are actual 4th yrs out there) it’d be like – oh well, we tried. Is the story of finding a recruiter who will work to place you just a myth in an already over saturated industry?

    • DC lawyer here

      I don’t have any leads on a recruiter, but can I ask why you are so set on the private sector? I have a similar amount of experience as you (7 years private practice, federal clerkships, top 10%) and I’m working at a great gov’t agency in DC doing very challenging, meaningful litigation work. Aside from the pay, what is the benefit of working for a firm? I have received far more responsibility since transitioning to the gov’t.

      Have you looked at some of the more “prestigious” agencies — DOJ, CFPB, SEC, etc.? Particularly look in a general counsel’s office doing litigation.

      • shamlet96

        i’m curious about this too. I’m assuming the salary differential must be driving this. federal gov’t salary compared to where you ‘d be in the private sector (even assuming just a senior associate level) is laughable. I have similar academic credentials to both of you and was only at a firm for a year (and have been a fed gov’t litigator since then) and am always curious about what my exit options would really look like.

    • Anon

      My general (cynical) advice is that recruiters are hired by firms that are willing to pay recruiters a huge chunk of cash to bring in a candidate that meets the firm’s exact criteria for a position. Recruiters do not work for candidates; they only care about finding someone who fits the specific criteria so that they can get paid. So, I’m not at all surprised that recruiters are not returning your calls. I think you will have better luck networking and meeting people for coffee and lunches and trying to find an open position that has not (yet) been posted.

      Also, send me an e-mail. My firm has a D.C. office that is small but growing, and we hire people who have no book of business but solid experience and skills. My e-mail is suzkim and it’s on gmail. I’d be happy to chat with you and if you are interested, forward your resume to the managing partner of that office.

      • CountC

        Outside recruiters aren’t hired by firms. Recruiting firms only get paid if they successfully place a candidate and outside of an agreement between the recruiter and the firm outlining the fee structure in the event there is a placement, firms are not beholden to any recruiter over another. The recruiters are somewhat cut throat in trying poach the best candidates from firms to move to other firms. Anyhow, having worked in recruiting for a short time in DC, as an 8th year without a book of business, it’s unlikely you will get a recruiter to help you. Recruiters will absolutely work hard to place candidates (that’s how they get paid), but working with a candidate who doesn’t fit anything that is out there on the market is not a good use of their time. Big firms don’t want to pay a recruiter for an 8th yr with no book of business, so recruiters aren’t going to help you in that sense. I echo what anon at 4:37 p.m. said about networking – that is absolutely going to be your best bet.

  16. shamlet96

    Any recs for cute pajamas for a thirty-something woman, ideally found at a B&M? it’s for my work bestie and everywhere i look online they are sold out (i.e. jcrew). She’s 5′ tall so i’m thinking petites would be best. Budget is $60-$70 but would be willing to go slightly higher for the right set. Thanks in advance!!

    • lawsuited

      DKNY Seven Easy Pieces are the softest, comfiest (and flattering!) pyjamas that I’ve ever come across. I am extremely picky about pyjamas, and these are now all I wear. I’d be thrilled to receive some for Christmas!

  17. C

    Looking for $e× toy recommendations that won’t scare a straight edge husband.

  18. Arborette

    I’ll be in New Orleans for the week after Christmas. What do I need to see/visit/eat??

    • anon217

      these are are touristy but fun things to do-definitely try to get dinner reservations for K Pauls. Antoines, we went for lunch-they have a 15 cent daily cocktail special (small, limit three). take a cemetery or ghost tour or a tour of the garden district (historical homes). reccomend a site called free tours by foot, our tour guides were both great. acme oysters. pat o briens for dualing pianos. ubeignets at cafe dumond (go early, long line). another good breakfast place-ruby slipper cafe or district donuts. dba bar for jazz.

  19. Randi

    Are engagement presents a thing?

    Good friend got engaged recently. Getting a card but not sure if they are even having an engagement party. Thoughts?

    • Anonymous

      Bottle of wine at the most. Otherwise there will be other gift giving opportunities (like the wedding).

    • Anonymous

      No need for a gift unless there is a party (or unless you are dying to do it). If you are feeling particularly festive, take your friend (and future spouse?) out for a drink to talk and celebrate.

    • Anonymous

      I think if there’s an engagement party you have to bring at least a small present. None of my friends have had engagement parties, and the only one I got an engagement gift for was my very best friend (for whom I am maid of honor) and that was a small (~$15) gift. Most brides have a shower to which you have to bring a gift, and you have to give a wedding gift, so I think an engagement gift is excessive unless you attend an engagement party.

    • Wildkitten

      Engagement presents are not mandatory. I give the Southern Weddings planner, or a ring disk, but only if you think your friend would really love that. Nothing is a fine gift too.

    • Anonymous

      I gave a friend from the gym a shirt that says “Gotta squat before I tie the knot”, if this even counts?

  20. biglaw receptionist

    I’m not a lawyer but I do work in a biglaw office as the front lobby receptionist. Even though my job is to answer the phone and direct calls or in person visitors to the appropriate floor/office I often buy the clothes and shoes you post here to wear to work (including the suits). This site has also helped me understand some of the things that go on in biglaw and law offices in general. So thank you.

    • AnonymousAttorney

      A receptionist? Uh-huh. You know this site is for ‘overachieving’ chicks right? I seriously doubt you could afford the clothes on here or comprehend what lawyers in Biglaw or anywhere else do.

      • Anon

        I (and many of my friends) put myself though school as a receptionist. I don’t think I’m any less high achieving because 18 year old me needed to pay the bills. Kudos to you though for making such shitty assumptions.

      • Anon

        Ugh, moderation. Anyways lots of high achieving ladies put themselves through school as receptionists (myself included). But thanks for your assumptions. This is why that now I’m a professional I treat my support staff with respect because there are people like you.

      • biglaw receptionist

        Considering that I spent my entire life from birth until my 18th birthday in 36 different foster homes, and that I come from a family of drug dealers and criminals, I would say I have achieved quite a bit. Sure I have never gone to college but I did get my GED and I am the first of my relatives to graduate high school or make it past grade 10 for that matter. I am the first to make it past the age of 17 without being a parent. I am the first one who has never been arrested. I have an honest, legal job and no debt besides my mortgage. I am bilingual and volunteer in my spare time. Not that I need to defend myself to you. I feel sorry for insecure, petty and bitter people like you.

        • Blonde Lawyer

          Most posters here are not as rude as the first one that replied to you. I work in a small office and my receptionist is 100% my peer. She is brilliant, beautiful and overachieving and I wouldn’t doubt if she read this site. I have never considered her lesser for not being a lawyer. When I’m stuck on an issue in my case I often run it by here and she has great insight. I actually envy her at times, when she gets to leave at 5 on the dot or not worry about checking email on vacation. Receptionists are also so important for keeping clients happy and keeping lawyers happy by serving as gatekeepers. I’m glad you enjoy reading here and hope you stick around.

        • moss

          I think you’re awesome!! Receptionist takes so much emotional labor and multitasking. It would exhaust me and keep me constantly stressed out. If you can navigate the corporate personality challenge, then YOU ROCK. I’m sorry the first response to you was a sh!tpost. You are very high-achieving in my book. :)

        • Senior Attorney

          My goodness! You were lovely to make your original post and your response to the rude person above is beyond gracious! Congratulations for all your achievements and for having such a great attitude!

      • Hollis

        AnonymousAttorney – seriously, your comment was so unnecessary and mean. Why be so nasty toward someone who is thanking people like you? I hope that’s not how you generally react to people who say kind things to you. And let’s be clear – you don’t need to make a lot of money to be able to afford a lot of Kat’s picks, unless you are talking about Splurge Monday – and you don’t have to be a lawyer to comprehend what lawyers do. It’s not exactly rocket science. Signed, a BigLaw lawyer who has been doing this for a very long time.

      • Anonymous

        So rude and uncalled for. I think this s i t e is a great resource for women in all kinds of office jobs (and in the workforce in general).

      • Anonymous

        This is literally the worst possible person.

        I have accidentally found myself in big law (was at a boutique firm that was acquired…). I respect the people who work hard at what they do and care about being presentable. Reception is key- they are the first interaction many clients have with a firm. They do a lot of difficult, on the spot thinking and work while juggling so many responsibilities. They’re awesome.

        Plus my mom worked reception for years and she kicks ass.

  21. biglaw receptionist

    I am not a lawyer but I do work in a biglaw office as the front lobby receptionist. Even though my job is to answer the phone and to direct callers and in-person visitors to the appropriate place/person I use the clothes you post as inspiration for my work wardrobe and sometimes I even buy them if there is an affordable option. I have also gained a better understanding of what goes on in biglaw and law offices in general. So thank you.

    • biglaw recptionist

      Apologies for posting twice. I am posting using a mobile browser and I didn’t see my first post go through.

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