This post may contain affiliate links and Corporette® may earn commissions for purchases made through links in this post. As an Amazon Associate, I earn from qualifying purchases.
Something on your mind? Chat about it here.
I am finally coming around to the crossbody trend personally, and I like the tassled, round looks we're seeing. This simple black bag from Sole Society just got marked down at Nordstrom, and the super affordable price with the very safe color makes it the perfect bag to try if you're still unsure about the trend. (Here's a similar bag in a lighter blue for $85 if black feels too heavy.) The pictured bag is now $33 at Nordstrom. Sole Society Tassel Faux Leather Crossbody Bag
(L-3)
Sales of note for 9.10.24
- Nordstrom – Summer Sale, save up to 60%
- Ann Taylor – 30% off your purchase
- Banana Republic Factory – Up to 50% off everything + extra 20% off
- Bergdorf Goodman – Save up to 40% on new markdowns
- Boden – 15% off new styles
- Eloquii – $29 and up select styles; up to 50% off everything else
- J.Crew – Up to 50% off wear-to-work styles; extra 30% off sale styles
- J.Crew Factory – 40-60% off everything; extra 60% off clearance
- Lo & Sons – Warehouse sale, up to 70% off
- M.M.LaFleur – Save 25% sitewide
- Spanx – Lots of workwear on sale, some up to 70% off
- Talbots – BOGO 50% everything, includes markdowns
- White House Black Market – 30% off new arrivals
Some of our latest posts here at Corporette…
RSS Error: WP HTTP Error: cURL error 60: Issuer certificate is invalid.
And some of our latest threadjacks here at Corporette (reader questions and commentary) — see more here!
Some of our latest threadjacks include:
- What to say to friends and family who threaten to not vote?
- What boots do you expect to wear this fall and winter?
- What beauty treatments do you do on a regular basis to look polished?
- Can I skip the annual family event my workplace holds, even if I'm a manager?
- What small steps can I take today to get myself a little more “together” and not feel so frazzled all of the time?
- The oldest daughter is America's social safety net — change my mind…
- What have you lost your taste for as you've aged?
- Tell me about your favorite adventure travels…
Anonymous
Sigh. I just got my first pay stub for my new job, which I took a significant raise to come to. Because of various changes including health care, retirement systems and frequency of pay, I’m actually taking home $75 less a check. I mean, I’ll make it work, but it’s depressing for this moment.
Anon
Ouch, what a letdown! Any chance you’ll see some of it in a tax return? Or are you getting great new healthcare or retirement benefits that you can point to as a tangible difference? Also, how about a shot?
Anonymous
Worrying about how much money is in each check because of changes in frequency of pay is silly. All that matters is what you’re getting total, not how it’s distributed.
Money in retirement is money saved, so if you’re receiving the same take-home pay and you’re saving more for retirement, you’re doing better financially.
I feel you on the health insurance though. I’ve had raises eaten by that and its annoying.
Anonymous
I mean, it may be silly, but I’m still junior enough with big enough student loans that it does make me reassess my budget. Will it wash at the end of the year? Sure. I’m still a little depressed that it didn’t at least stay the same, though – the mind game, you know?
And yes, I am getting the same health insurance but my last company covered 100% and I have a portion at my new org, I have a chunk going to an FSA for an oral surgery I know I need to have this year, and I am going to be part of a retirement/pension system which I wasn’t before, as well as 1 for 1 match on my retirement fund contribution. All good things, but still. I expected it to look different for how large percentage-wise my raise was without changing tax brackets!
Its still more money...
+1 – are you talking about going from 24 (twice a month) payments to 26 (biweekly) checks? Because… those two extra checks make a difference. And Askamanager had a whole comments section on that yesterday morning.
Senior Attorney
Those two extra checks are awesome, though, when they arrive. Three-paycheck months are the best!
Its still more money...
Yup – July and Dec for me this year. And they go straight into savings. Mostly.
NOLA
Sorry about this. It really does suck. Every 10 years or so, we have the situation where we have 27 payrolls in a year rather than 26 (how the dates fall) and, if it’s a year when we don’t get raises, it feels like you’ve taken a paycut. Our staff work two weeks, then get paid a week later, so it doesn’t affect them, thank goodness. For us, they take our contractual amount and divide it by the number of payrolls. It happened last year and it’s so sad.
Runner 5
When I learned that it’s rare to get paid monthly even in ‘grown up’ jobs in the US it totally blew my mind. Monthly is just normal here in the UK.
2 Cents
Meanwhile here in the States, we’re like “You once get paid ONCE a month!?” A friend made the jump to a British company and the way the dates worked out, she went 6 weeks before seeing her first paycheck — was quite the change to get accustomed to!
Senior Attorney
When I was married to my former husband I got paid monthly and he got paid every other week. I thought that was the best of all worlds.
SuziStockbroker
I get paid monthly and my husband is every other week, it works well for us too!
Nannies
Rather than warehouse my school-aged children in summer camps from 8-6 every day of summer vacation, we have opted to use partial day camps and have a summer nanny pick them up and let them romp / swim / go to the park or do something else less structured this summer.
And I’m paying the nanny on the books (which is intrusive: I have to ask her for a lot of personal data, her driving record, etc.; much more than my employer asked of me). I am not sure that many nannies are used to doing this much less have this info (but WHY wouldn’t you get the nanny’s drivers license and do a check if the nanny is driving your children).
The paperwork is horrifying! The tax stuff alone may kill me. And the whole process is expensive (b/c the summer nanny will be doing some driving, we are getting workers comp insurance even though it wouldn’t be mandatory in our state)!
Lordy — do other people actually do this?
Pita
Ouch! I’m sure you meant no offense, but for those of us who send our kids to full-day camps, or camps with before-care and/or after-care, “warehousing” is a pretty judgmental word!
Nannies
I didn’t mean to be judgy — the one kid who had a camp summer (which is different than a daycare summer) last summer actively dislikes it. It may just be that the days are too long and too regimented for her. It may be, too, that she knows her school friends get to do things she doesn’t (which makes me feel bad that I can’t provide them, but I do need to work to keep a roof over our heads — the after-camp help is to blend the two). But for her, what is a good solution to a working parent is not a good solution to the child and we are trying something else this summer.
It totally makes me appreciate the awesome day cares we have had (which I never thought were at all poorly-serving my children while meeting my needs).
FWIW, in my area, many working parents get through the summer by:
a) week at paternal grandparents (not an option for us)
b) week at materal grandparents (also not an option for us)
c) parents taking off first and last weeks of the summer vaction (also not an option)
So they are just more free-frange in general. I think that that is good and want that for my children and am really torn. The 8-6 camp all day, every day, would be rough (at least at school, you have your friends around you and it’s not an all-new bunch of people every week).
I honestly thought I had the working parent thing down but I feel that with being in elementary school, I am really seeing things through a different lens (as as my children), and our first stab at this did not work for one of our children.
Jen
Life is unfair and kids aren’t always happy with what their parents can provide for them, option-wise. Would I have loved to have a swimming pool like my friends did, or to go on fancy vacations? Yes. Did I grow up to be a successful person despite not always liking the summer activity and care options my parents gave me? Yes. That your daughter didn’t particularly like day camp doesn’t mean it won’t provide her with good coping and life skills, or perhaps new lifelong friends, or a thick skin she’ll need for the world, or whatever. You don’t have to choose only those options which make your children happy, and in fact I don’t think you always should even if you technically can.
a
Ditto. Great that you found an option you’re apparently (?) happy with, but the “warehousing” comment is pretty darn harsh!
cbackson
HA, I loved summer camp, so I also thought that was a super-weird way to describe it.
Anonymous
I loved sleepaway camp so much that I became camp staff.
“Warehousing” is accurate for how some (not all!) parents treat sending their kids to camp. It was not unusual to discover that a camper had medical conditions not disclosed on the medical history form–usually ADHD and allergies but including bed wetting and more serious conditions–or that Mom and Dad decided to go to Europe while the kid was away. Yeah, Grandma is a good emergency contact but she better be within driving distance of camp and know the child very well.
So many stories…
Anonymous
I don’t have kids, maybe if I did I’d feel differently, but isn’t a romantic trip without the kids the perfect thing to do when the kids are away at summer camp? I mean, when else are parents supposed to get some alone time to reconnect and re-solidify their marriage? Not everyone has family that can take the kids for a week or so every year. The parents need to be REACHABLE in case of a medical emergency, sure, but that hardly means that they must be within driving distance at all times.
SoCalAtty
I have to agree with this. I used to spend 3 weeks every summer at band camp and I know my grandparents used to go to Napa (from the Placer County area) for a least a week to visit my Grandma’s sister.
Totally reachable but definitely out of town. I never felt weird about it when I was at camp, it seemed pretty standard for the other kids, too.
Anonymous
Camp staff again. Camps are staffed as leanly as possible to meet ratios–they don’t have extra staff to play nursemaid if something happens. If there are problems and no parental help is available, your kid is most likely to be assigned to the kitchen with the kitchen staff for the duration (only place in camp with constant 2 or more adults supervising and won’t ruin ratios for other staff–kitchen staff are not trained to babysit and are the least kid-friendly people in camp). So, if anything happens, the kid is assigned to chop vegetables all day or sent home.
For parents, it may seem like a great time to get away…based on true stories:
What happens when your child breaks her arm and needs to go home that day? Doctor does not want her sleeping in a tent with a new cast–especially because it’s likely to rain that night.
What about when the camp staff learns your child is allergic to wheat and dairy (not disclosed on health form) and is hospitalized after days of being sick?
What happens when Grandma (or the back-up emergency contact) decides they can’t possibly drive to camp to pick up your sick/injured/horribly homesick child? Maybe they don’t feel comfortable driving on freeways or didn’t even know they were your designated emergency contact or are also out of town.
What about when your child is having serious behavioral issues–beyond the camp staff’s ability to keep your child safe–and needs parental support or guidance and both parents are “off the grid” camping and the emergency contact is not aware of any issues and insists that they barely know your child?
Camp staff members are between 18-22 and don’t have degrees in child development/psychology. They have 3 counselors to feed/water/entertain/care for 27 kids. The medical staff member is more likely to be an EMT than an RN and only really knows how to get a child to the ER alive. Even camp directors are more likely to have a degree in forestry or recreation than childcare.
I love camps. I think every child should have the chance to sleepaway. I also know that parents need to be prepared in case the child needs to go home early.
Bonnie
I can’t get past all of the judgement in your post to even address your question.
Anonymous
I don’t even have kids and yet “warehousing”?? Didn’t care much about what you had to say otherwise.
Senior Attorney
Lordy! Don’t you have people to take care of that pesky paperwork?
anon
+1. Pretty sure that there are nanny payroll services that can handle a lot of this. I don’t really get the intrusive part. Background checks/credit checks and even drug tests are standard for a lot of employers.
JJ
It’s the nanny’s job, right? So, it makes sense that you would go through all the paperwork that employers go through.
Or you can just warehouse them in a daycare/camp with extended care hours, like I do. Warehouse and let the strangers raise the kids, amirite?
Senior Attorney
High five for not raising your own kids!!
CPA Lady
It’s a lot easier that way! *double high five*
Sarcasm aside, I looooved summer camp. It was so much fun. Wish someone would warehouse me at fun camps this summer.
anon
Cannot wait until my kid is old enough for 4 weeks at overnight camp. Camp was the highlight of my year when I was growing up.
Meg March
To be honest, as a kid I WISHED I got warehoused. I was so jealous of my friends who “got” to be at camp all day! I only got to go in the mornings, and then I had to hang out with my mom and my dumb brother the rest of the day. UGH the WORST. (Kid me was very into Ellencaps.)
emeralds
My mom was a teacher so I never got to go to summer camp because she was around to “raise me” or whatever BS over the summer. I wanted to be at camp having fun with my friends.
Anon
Someone as perfect as you ought to be able to fill out a little paperwork!
Nannies
Wow — I am not perfect (I feel like I am drowning in another phase of the childcare / working parent world). And who can I talk to about that? The guys I work with? Everyone else who just pays under the table? Who, exactly?
And it’s not a little paperwork. Unless you own a small business, you might.
Way harsh, Tai.
Anonymous
Do other people do what? Take care of their school aged kids in the summer? Um, yes. You don’t just see packs of roaming rising 3rd graders on the streets in the suburbs in the summer anymore. Looking past some of the judge-y-ness of the post though, I will agree that it is hard and the year-round daycare years are much easier. But you just do. Do what’s best for your kids and family at the moment, whether that be full day daycamps, sleep away camp, nannies, grandparents, etc.
Canoe
I mean, you could just sent them to sleep-away camp. Then you wouldn’t even have to bother with them for 6-8 weeks, much less during the hours of 8-6.
That would get rid of the nanny paperwork…
Seventh Sister
I can’t wait until I can do that for a week or two! Our diocese has a fantastic camp in the mountains and I think my eldest will adore sleepaway camp. It’s just not feasible this year.
Anonymous
Have you priced them? Even the Y ones are more expensive than infant day care (and college tuition). I think for multiple children it may be out of reach for us for more than a week or two each summer. Also, it is too hot where we live and humid — we’d need to be a 4 hour drive north to ge any relief from any outdoorsy camp.
Seventh Sister
Yup! It’s just too expensive this year because we still have one in preschool.
Betty
Looking past the judgment inherent in your post: We hired an agency to do the paperwork and taxes for us for our nannies. And yes, people who pay above the table do the paperwork, take care of taxes, etc. and for those who “nanny” for a profession, they want the paperwork completed to pay taxes, contribute to SS, amongst other things.
One thing to consider: depending on the hourly rate and number of hours per week, are you going to hit the threshold for household employee?
Ally McBeal
Of course we do all of this. The paperwork, the workers’ comp, the unemployment insurance, the quarterly taxes, the overtime pay. It’s hugely inconvenient but if you pay your nanny on the books, that’s what you do.
Anon
No one ever said being an elitist would be easy
Anonymous
:snort:
Anon for this
SORRY FOR SHOUTING BUT I COULD HAVE WRITTEN THIS MYSELF!!!!!!!!!! This is becoming, without question, the biggest pain in the neck for me. We’re hiring a nanny for the first time this summer and the taxes associated with it are so much higher than I guesstimated, and the payroll service we’re using charges us each time they process payroll. AND, and, we have to get workers comp insurance in our state. It is bonkers. On top of it, we just got a bill for the holding fee (fee — not a downpayment) of over $700 for keeping my kid’s spot in daycare open. I have no effing idea how anyone has a nanny. It’s madness to do it legit. And the fact that the federal tax threshold is $2000 is so, so obnoxiously low. You’re asking people to do it illegally when it’s below what you can get for dependent care!!!!
Blonde Lawyer
Check your homeowner’s insurance policy. Some include worker’s comp for household employees as part of the base rate. It was on my policy and I thought there was a mistake so I called to say we don’t have a household employee. They said it is standard and wasn’t costing me any extra. *shrug*
Nannies
Thank you — it would be $1,200 I’d rather save for something else.
Anon for this
That’s awesome — when I asked my husband to check he said we didn’t have it but maybe he overlooked it/didn’t ask the right way. Thanks!
Blonde Lawyer
I don’t think it is on my dec page. I asked for a copy of the whole policy and I think it is in the endorsements.
Nannies
Misery is loving any company today.
We made mistake to live in a close-in neighborhood where our city has at least some all-day camps, but most are in the newer suburbs (so 20+ miles a day of driving to maybe make it work). They are really, really OK, but my older child got punched in the stomach and it just became obvious that they can easily break down and are just not a place a kid wants to go back to. And yet, I have to send them somewhere b/c I have work to keep a roof over our heads (or move, but that would mean changing schools that they do really like).
I never had this feeling at day care — I was sure that they were in good hands and nothing bad happened to them and my kids were happy. I really want them to be happy and yet I don’t feel that I have good options. Maybe this works?
Anonymous
Oh I hear you. I don’t know if it’s worth it just for the summer, but when we had a nanny, we used a payroll service. One-time set up, I was confident that it had been done correctly, and they mailed us a checked to give to her every week or two with all the proper withholding (and our employer taxes in escrow). I think it cost a few hundred dollars for the year, but they also provided the paperwork we needed for our tax return, and I never regretted the “splurge.”
Spirograph
Wow, I’m honestly surprised at the backlash to “warehousing.” I assumed you said it tongue-and-cheek with a twinkle in your eye, and I actually giggled a little at the comparison. (I was a summer camp counselor at a sleep away camp for several years and aside from the odd kid who didn’t get over homesickness in the first few hours, I’d say those kids had WAY more fun at camp than they would with a nanny, anyway.)
Anonymous
+1. Seems people are a wee bit sensitive about their perfectly reasonable choices.
Maddie Ross
Eh, I think you have to consider your audience. Which is a bunch of almost entirely working women (what was Kat’s stat earlier this week on the survey? like over 80% of the survey respondent readers work full time?) which means that almost all of us are in some way “outsourcing” childcare. And the intimation that we are not raising our own children as a result just strikes a nerve.
Anonymous
I think that’s the point though. It was obviously tongue-in-cheek. The OP is a working woman, not a SAHM who is actually judging those who outsource childcare.
Trish
It is warehousing for the most part unless you can afford something grand. It. Just. Is. Most of the day camps are crap and the hours are long. I am very glad my husband works at home. We put our kid in camp but he was picked up early most days.
DCR
But was it really tongue-in-cheeck? or was it just tone deaf?
Especially since she’s no longer using the warehouse option, I think it was the later
Anon
Geez she was just being a little flippant. Can we stop with the comments already?
Lobbyist
Yes. I use a service for payroll its called HomePay. Its great, they do direct deposit for her and just take it right from my account. They also do all the taxes.
Seventh Sister
Our school district has really nice and inexpensive summer daycamp that runs all day. Not a warehouse at all, just a camp for us less-than-perfect parents.
One kid is going to Fancy Fancy Dance-y Camp at Le Prestige Local Studio Of The Dance with extended hours – 9-3. I’m going to make it work, but seriously, 9-3? Betty Draper called, her summertime schedule got stuck in 2016.
Seventh Sister
The 9-3 schedule is just one week, thank goodness.
Anonymous
Ugh, yes. Many of the best “enrichment” camps in our area have this kind of nutty schedule, without and extended day option for working parents. What is worse is that my kid’s sports team practices for three hours in the middle of the day, four days a week during the summer. That is the price of living in a LCOL area where very few moms work and those who do work are teachers.
Seventh Sister
I’m in a big HCOL urban area, which makes it even stranger to me. I’m hardly the only working mother. The camp has a couple of sites, including one at a $$$$$ private school, so maybe they just assume that each child already has a full-time nanny or stay-at-home-parent?
Meg Murry
Our city has a program that is supposed to be helping “working families” take care of their kids for the summer. It’s only 6 weeks, and its from 10-3. Yeah. Not really helpful.
And most of the other camps in our area are similar 9-3, 8-12, etc. None of the daycares take kids beyond kindergarten. It is a maddening juggle trying to piece together some semblance of a schedule and figure out which parent is leaving early what day to handle pickup or trying to coordinate a carpool.
I hear OP in not wanting to “warehouse” her kids from 8-6 but to allow them more unscheduled time (I’m also assuming the “warehouse” was tongue in cheek) but man, I wish I even had the option to do so.
Anonymous
Not sure if it’s still like this, but I went to Y camps and Girl Scout camps growing up and they were all 8-6, M-F. And had buses. The Y bus picked up from our local Y downtown. I can’t remember where the GS bus picked up but maybe at the local elementary schools? The Y had extra extended hours even after the camp bus got back, so for parents who worked later, kids could hang out at the local Y and sometimes even get an extra swim.
Vaguelu
I’m unhappy for various reasons right now. Those reasons can be dealt with but the bigger problem that concerns me is what if I’m just an unhappy person? It is hard for me to recall when I last felt happy, and that spans across a few different times and periods of my life. The only common thread here is me. Has anyone felt similarly?
Anonymous
Yes. I realized this about myself back in high school. When something good happens or I achieve something that I worked really hard for, I can enjoy it for all of 6 seconds bc I deem it not a big deal and set my next goal to slog for. When something bad happens, then I assume it’ll always be that way and will never get better and I’ll be stuck where I am for life — i.e. bad job or something. I think it’s who I am. Don’t know how to change it.
anonymous
I felt like this through my mid 20s. Then I started to notice steady improvements. I was always working toward being a happier person, but for a long time it felt like something was wrong with me when I consistently couldn’t make it happen. I think that happiness/contentment is a choice that anyone can make, and probably anyone can have if you’re willing to put in the work it takes to get there. And sometimes it just takes time and personal development. I don’t believe that a person can just not be happy, though.
anonymous at 2:03
I’ll echo the above anonymous’ sentiment, as I used to feel the same way. It absolutely can change, but for me it took a TON of time and work. I never did therapy though, although I guess that could suit some people. It can totally be done, and it’s definitely worth what I put in to get here.
Anonymous
Yep, same here. I think I’m fundamentally not a super happy person, but I’ve started to notice that my parents aren’t either, and the last few years I’ve worked towards being content/happy and being more grateful, etc. I’ve made strides, but I still have progress to make.
I 100% think some of us have to just work harder to be happy, but at least it’s worthwhile work.
Anon
I also used to feel this way (through my mid-twenties). Yoga/mindfulness/purposeful gratitude were what I needed. And regular exercise (why yoga is so awesome – it is a combination of the brain boost and the physical boost). I do not think these are panaceas or will work for everyone, but they worked for me – like in a noticeable, huge, life-changing way. I hope you find something that works for you!
Wendy
I too have had significent changes in my outlook on life since starting mindful meditation, embracing gratitude and not fretting over unhappy periods in my life.
Another thing I do is keep a notebook where I write down things during the day things that make me happy, smile or laugh. And then I look over the entries at the end of each day. Somedays, the page is blank, but more often than not, there is something to make me feel good.
Anonymous
One thing that helped me was rethinking what “happiness” is to me. I read an Augusten Burroughs book that really helped me change my perspective on self help and mental health. He had a section where he talks about how his boyfriend is genuinely happy most of the time, but that isn’t achievable for him. He’s not a happy person and that just isn’t an obtainable or helpful goal for him to have. So he switched to trying to be interested rather than happy. Anyway it really helped me to shift my perspective on what I could aim for in my own life. Now I feel like I do obtain “happiness” for me and part of that is not being stressed about trying to get to some other version of happiness.
Anonymous
I’m the Anon @ 2:01 — the one who can be happy for about 6 seconds and then that’s it. For those of you who affirmatively worked to make yourselves happier people — what did you do and how? Not interested in therapy but self help tips?
Senior Attorney
Honestly, why wouldn’t you be interested in therapy? If it could help you be happier, and if you want to be happier, why on earth would you just dismiss it out of hand?
I’ve done a ton of therapy and it has absolutey helped me be about a million billion times happier than I was when I started.
anonymous at 2:03
I don’t necessarily think one should dismiss therapy out of hand, but I don’t think it’s for everyone. I’ve done a lot of therapy, but it definitely didn’t help me at all and I can’t imagine ever wanting to waste my time on that again. I think therapy is great for many people and many situations- I’d want the OP to consider it, but I’d also trust her to know what works for her. For me, it wasn’t therapy.
Shopping
I’m following this post because my son knows he has problems with emotions. He just stuffs them all away, until they are too much and he is overwhelmed by them. We have tried therapy several times (he’s starting high school in the fall). It just feels too intrusive to him. He doesn’t trust anyone but me, so to have a stranger talk about his biggest problems (in his mind, his worst parts) is terrifying. He doesn’t open up at all, and after a few months the therapist and I conclude that it’s not working and I’ve wasted my money.
anonymous
I was always candid, but I felt that their questions or comments really never led me to think of anything that I hadn’t thought of before. And frequently the “therapy tools” were things I was already doing in one manner or another. I honestly think I just needed time.
Anonymous
Not the anon you’re responding to – but I actually found therapy worsened this for me. I’m pretty introspective. I spend a lot of time thinking about what I’m doing wrong. Preparing for therapy and actually talking to someone else about it just made me dwell on it more than I already do.
I find that something physical is better for me than meditation or yoga or therapy; it gets me out of my head. What helped me more than anything else is super corny – I kept a colorful pad of little post its on my bathroom countertop. Every day, I forced myself to write down either something I was thankful for or some words of affirmation, then stick them on my bathroom mirror. After a couple of weeks, my bathroom mirror was filled with happy thoughts that I would look at as I was getting ready. I do something similar at work. I take pictures of things that make me happy, or pick up rocks or shells or sea glass, anything I can touch that reminds me of a happy time, and stick them under my computer screen in an unobtrusive place that I’ll see all the time. I have a tiny basket to collect my “memories” and I’ll finger through them when I’m feeling down.
CountC
Like Anon at 2:18 p.m., I reframed what happiness meant for me. I will never be a bubbly, squee, OMG THIS IS FANTASTIC person. That’s not me and that’s not who I want to be. I am a middle of the road, content person and I am okay with that. I try to always look for a positive in things, I am annoyingly silver lining-ish sometimes I am sure. I try to think of things from a non-negative perspective. I also have found that regular exercise and meditation is very helpful. If you haven’t read Dan Harris’s book 10% Happier, I suggest picking that up as well. He was in a more super stressed, panic attack, style mode, but it’s an easy read and could provide a different perspective.
I believe there are people who FEEL ALL THE FEELS, and those are the people who appear to be happier than I ever could imagine being at times. But that doesn’t mean I am doing anything wrong, it just means I am not a FATF person. I enjoy my life, I have great friends, I appreciate what I have, and I try to enjoy the majority of my time here on earth, but I don’t think anyone would describe me as an overtly happy person!
anonymous at 2:03
I never really thought about it in terms of improving happiness, it was more that I saw a particular flaw in myself that I wanted to get rid of for some other reason. I tend to be a hypercritical person, and it caused me a lot of stress. Remarkably, it didn’t impact my relationships much, but I knew that it could at some point if I didn’t get it under control. It was very much a trial and error approach, but over time I changed. I think I’m still inclined to be more critical than others, but less than I used to be, don’t dwell on it as much, and am getting better at seeing the good in people and things. It turns out that I was totally limiting the good things that I could have in life by viewing things so critically. And once I realized that, it became much easier to change things in related but different areas in my life. I’ll point out, though, that some things just take time. I was very angry about a legitimately very bad things that happened to me for a long time. I reached a point where I knew I should feel differently and not dwell so much, because doing that would make my life so much better. It took a solid year after I realized that intellectually to really internalize that lesson, let go, and stop dwelling. I tried and failed over and over again, and then one day, I wasn’t so angry anymore. I’m not sure if it’s all the effort that I put in, or just that sometimes we can’t do something before we’re emotionally ready. I think probably both.
Personally I don’t value happiness much, even now, and I didn’t do these things in order to be a “happier” person, but rather a better one. so I picked out the things that I felt were holding me back the most and tried to come up with a plan to address them. It took some extreme persistence though. I never got it right on the first try, and it was mad frustrating.
Lobbyist
Being grateful helps me be happy. At one point, I had to write a list every day of 20 things Im grateful for. And they had to be different things than yesterday. It was helpful.
Anon
I am not an “unhappy” person, but I think about depressing things a lot. I find gratitude has helped me move away from that. I read the Brene Brown book “The Gifts of Imperfection” which had a chapter “Cultivating Gratitude and Joy: Letting Go of Scarcity and Fear of the Dark” that really helped me think about why I think about bad things all the time (as a way to try to protect myself– like if I don’t get too invested and instead think of the ways things could go wrong then I’ll never be hurt), and start to move away from that and towards gratitude and vulnerability and joy. It has really changed my perspective.
LostInTranslation
I highly recommend Awakening the Buddha Within by Lama Surya Das to address the happiness issue. (Not a Buddhist BTW but that’s who it’s for – how some Buddhist ideas may offer comfort in anyone’s daily life. Will reading it make you happy – maybe not, but it may offer some new perspectives. Some of the things that spoke to me were how everything is OK just as it is, how others are not as perfect as they often appear to be, and how destructive it is to be constantly wanting what we don’t have. I first picked it up at a very difficult time in my life and it gave me a lot of comfort.
Anonymous
The book “The Art of Happiness” by the Dalai Lama helped me become happier. I’m not a Buddhist either. The book is full of practical advice on how to look at the world in a way that makes you appreciate things differently. It significantly improved my outlook.
Green Straw
Can I toot my own horn for a minute over something trivial but exciting to me?
My mom was one of those hyper involved SAHMs who always did a ton of volunteer work and did it well. If she said she was going to do something, she made it happen, period. Well, after a period of being a flaky volunteer and feeling terrible about it/comparing myself to my mom, I finally have a volunteer position that I am knocking out of the park. We’re having a fundraiser this weekend that I am partly running, and I have been SO on the ball. I’ve done a ton of work and am really prepared. I’m really proud of myself.
I hope y’all have a great weekend and are in as good a mood as I am now. Also, keep your fingers crossed that it goes well and we make piles of money for the charity!
Toot toot
Toot away, Green Straw! Hats off to you for finding something that is not only giving you lots of joy but is also helping others. Hoping you raise lots of money this weekend. And proud of you for your efforts and for giving yourself a much-deserved pat on the back!
Senior Attorney
Toot toot!
Rock on!!!
Anon
Go you! Being more involved and charitable is on my (long-term) to do list as well. Hope the event is great!
Anon for this
I have been a federal law clerk for a few years— I stepped out of litigation (including a few years of BigLaw) into this position. I also clerked right out of law school.
I’m *thinking* about applying for a litigation-focused in-house position for which I meet the minimum qualifications. And I am having heart palpitations. I am so anxious that my resume will be laughed into the recycling bin. It’s a total crisis of confidence. I think part of it is that I have not gone through a vigorous job search in a long time; instead, I’ve been able to seize on some opportunities relatively easily— and have performed well. But I stepped off the ambition track to do this clerkship—it was absolutely a lifestyle decision—and now I am afraid that I won’t be taken seriously when I apply for “real” jobs. The answer here is obviously to just do it. I know there is no harm in applying. But I guess I am asking whether anyone has any insight into how someone with 10 years experience but who moved to the mommy track for a few years will be received on the market?
Senior Attorney
This was me, eleven years ago. Not an in-house job, but a big step up for the career clerk position I took after leaving my law firm.
I got the job.
Do it.
Betty
Hi me! Seriously did the exact same thing, and now I am in at an in house gig that I love. Here’s what I can see now that I couldn’t when I was looking to step out of my cocoon (my judge’s chambers): a federal clerkship is an awesome, highly respected job. Yes, if you are good, intelligent attorney with a great boss it is conducive to having kids, but that does not change that it is an amazing job for a litigator (or any attorney). You clerked out of law school and gained fantastic experience that you then utilized as a litigator. Then, you stepped back into a clerkship and could see litigation with different eyes and honed your writing, research and analytical skills. If you are looking to stay in the same basic geographic region, you would be an asset in house. Go for it! You are selling yourself short!
Anon for this
Thank you for this! (Seriously. Thank you.)
And I just wanted to clarify, since my anxiety-ridden post might have obscured it, that although I took this job primarily because it allowed me a degree of predictability and flexibility that other litigation jobs wouldn’t, I love this job and have great respect for it. It’s important and challenging, and I work hard.
As you rightly perceived, my anxiety has to much to do with how my choices will be perceived than any belief that I am above this job.
Betty
I remember that feeling and oh the dread of having to really go back out on the labor market. But, seriously, don’t apologize for your choices. You have a huge amount to offer a company as an in-house attorney, both in litigation and in other legal areas. (And, yes, I too adored clerking and was almost constantly in awe of the system that surrounded me.)
Anonymous
If you’re generally happy in your job, do you still consider interesting calls from headhunters? I love my job, usually I say ‘thanks but I’m happy’, but this one is giving me pause.
JJ
Unless it’s an absolute “no” from me because of the employer, I always consider calls from recruiters. It’s helpful market research, it’s always nice to have good relationships with recruiters, and if the job isn’t right for me, I may know people that I can refer to the recruiter. And, it’s nice to stay in practice for interviewing if the process gets that far. There’s really not a downside to hearing out those calls.
Also, two years ago I almost said “Thanks but I’m happy.” I didn’t and it turned into an offer and now a great job that I love.
Nati
I thought this was such a thoughtful response. I’ve also asked the same question as the OP lately (to myself, not on this board), and I found what you’ve written really helpful.
Greener grass
Less than 2 years ago, I said thanks but I am thriving at my job.
But then recruiter somehow insisted and I ended up getting a chance of a lifetime and after over a year of back and forth, landed the job I would have never dreamed of, moved to a country I like and got a big check.
Nati
Wow! I’m so curious about what you do and where! Any way you could describe without outing yourself? Even if not, congratulations!
Anonymous
Interview Attire question
I have an interview next week for an in-house attorney position in Silicon Valley. Small-ish but established technology company, about 200 employees with about a 4 person legal team.
I think suit might be too much…but am I wrong? Would a sheath dress+blazer or not-matching slacks+blouse+blazer be OK?
Thanks!
Anonymous
I would definitely wear a suit. Programmers may wear jeans to work, but in-house attorneys, even in Silicon Valley, generally wear at least business casual to the office on a regular basis, and interview in suits.
Anonymous
Thanks! Suit it is.
MJ
Both your latter options would be fine. Suit will likely feel a little stuffy. Know that most lawyers do dress up a bit more than most of the rest of tech companies (save the Sales folks), so if you are the more formal side, it’s fine too. It is an interview. But as long as you have a blazer, that’s dressed up at a tech co in SV, trust me.
Anonymous
It probably depends on how young and trendy the company is. Something like Twitter, yeah you might look stuffy in a suit, even for an attorney position. But at more established companies where the average engineer age is 40 or more (like, say, IBM), I would wear a suit. I practiced law in Palo Alto and worked a lot with one of the more established tech companies and their in-house attorneys dressed as least as formally as we did, if not moreso.
SF in House
With a small company (200 employees), I am guessing everyone is casual. Is an internal recruiter scheduling you? If so, I would reach out to them and say “I usually interview in a suit, but wanted to make sure that is appropriate to Company X’s culture.” That said I have been in house in tech for 15+ years (in SV and SF) and would never have batted an eye over either of the latter two options. The only interview attire I noted was a man who came in for a senior counsel position and wore khakis and a polo. Pants/shirt/jacket was fine (no tie), but that was too casual.
Shopping
With so much variation in responses from people who know the industry, it looks like you can choose what’s most comfortable to you :)
Although asking the person with whom you’re arranging logistics would also be good.
Anon
You guys, I gave notice at my company today. I couldn’t sleep all last night worrying about whether I was making the right choice but now that I’ve done it I feel so free. It’s amazing.
I have another job lined up but it doesn’t start until July. Amazing.
Anon in NYC
Awesome! Congrats! Enjoy June!
Calling all runners...
What gets you to buckle down and run? Especially those of you who run on the road, rather than the gym. Bonus if it’s first thing in the morning.
I was okay running on a treadmill on the gym. But I no longer have a gym membership, and I feel SO self-conscious dragging my slow, fat rear on a terrible excuse for a run. Does anyone have tips/encouragement for me? TIA!
anon
1) Running in the early morning is good for feeling a sense of accomplishment all day. Plus it helps if you are a little self-conscious. Try looking at some motivational pins on pinterest and getting a good play list put together.
2) What do you think when you see other people running? About the only quasi-negative thought I have is when I see a woman with a sports bra that’s not supporting her because it just looks painful. Every other through is neutral to positive, regardless of the runner’s appearance. No one is judging you.
Rusty
I second this. Thin, fat, old young, good form, running like Phoebe on friends. My only negative thoughts of anyone I ever saw running was “that’s not a sports bra girl, your tutting must hurt” and “wear to did get a onesies to run in”?
Maddie Ross
Can you find a friend to join you? Or better yet, a running group (I promise that nearly all of them have runners of all different speeds and experience)? Having other people hold me accountable really helps. Esp. first thing in the morning when it would otherwise me so much easier to snooze.
CountC
Do you have trails in your area? I see so few people on the trails where I run. I have a preservation area 10 minutes from my house that has 12 miles of trails. It’s beautiful, especially at sunrise and sunset, I love being out in nature, and love being alone or only seeing one or two people. I power walk up the bill hills which makes me feel all RAWR and powerful and I stop to take pics of pretty things whenever I feel like it. It’s 100% fun for me, that’s what motivates me to get out and run. It’s like pulling teeth to get me to run on a treadmill or the road these days! :)
Anonymous
Do you have trails in your area? I see so few people on the trails where I run. I have a preservation area 10 minutes from my house that has 12 miles of trails. It’s beautiful, especially at sunrise and sunset, I love being out in nature, and love being alone or only seeing one or two people. I power walk up the bill hills which makes me feel all RAWR and powerful and I stop to take pics of pretty things whenever I feel like it. It’s 100% fun for me, that’s what motivates me to get out and run. It’s like pulling teeth to get me to run on a treadmill or the road these days! :)
Anonymous
Honestly- smashrun. It’s a website (free!), and you get badges for various achievements. The one for running 10x per month got me going for the year and there are enough badges to aim for that it keeps be going. I’m not a race person, so signing up for a 5/10k or half, doesn’t motivate me, but that can work for some people.
And do not feel self-conscious. I was a terrible runner, it took me 3 years to end up firmly in the 50th percentile for my age, and I will never been fast. But gosh darn it, I am persistent, and I get out there, and no one can take that away from me. And when I see new/slower runners, I always give a little runner’s wave as they go by, and hope that they feel like part of the community and stick around.
TBK
Ugh, please don’t give patronizing waves to slow runners. It’s like those awful “open letter to the fat person I saw running who clearly couldn’t be a serious athlete like moi” that were going around awhile ago that meant to be encouraging but were just horrifically patronizing. That person might have been in serious training for years for all you know. When I was in amazing (for me) shape and doing 2x day workouts regularly, I still never looked super fit. I probably would still have struck you as a “new/slow runner.”
Anonymous
It’s not patronizing, I wave at every runner I see- it’s normal in my city to do so, and I’m offended when another runner passes me and doesn’t wave. It’s more so that I’m not excluding them from all the runners that I usually wave at.
Jeeze, I just live in a friendly city.
emeralds
I wave to every runner I see when I’m running, because it’s polite. It’s how you say “Yo I see you, other person doing this thing that can suck in the moment more than anything else in the whole wide world, way to keep on keeping on,” and indicate that we are part of a shared community of masochists.
January
+1 (especially to “shared community of masochists!”). Haha.
Anonymous
+1 to this, it’s pretty much an acknowledgement of “this is awful rn but we are awesome for doing it”
First Year Anon
Yah, it’s not patronizing- it’s the “runner’s wave”- given to EVERYONE. I have all people of all abilities and genders do it to me and it’s never come across as patronizing.
former runner, now sedentary
I love runner waves… it’s a nice acknowledgement of the struggle. When I ran cross country back in the day it would fill me with (strangely) strong, heartwarming glee when you crossed paths with other runners, or runners who were waiting on the sidelines or whatever, and everyone would say “good job,” even if you weren’t on the same team/didn’t know each other. It was sort of a convention, I guess.
Maybe the endorphins or the pain broke my neurons or something but the sense of camaraderie totally gets me.
TBK
I guess what bothered me was the assumption that you could tell from looking at someone that they needed extra encouragement. From the way you described it, it sounded like you were singling out the new/slow runners.
Nati
I’m one of these slow runners and I actually love the encouraging waves.
Annony
me too
Rooney
With that big a chip on your shoulder, I’m sure you have back problems.
Anon for this
Just get out there! I swear, no one is watching! For me making a monthly calendar of how many miles I will run each day is really helpful for staying on track. It’s a little easier in the summer when it’s not dark in the morning. I run on a fairly busy trail and everyone is mostly in their own worlds so I don’t feel self conscious. Good luck!
JJ
It’s so, so super cheesy, but when I don’t have any motivation and feel self-conscious about running, I think of the Nike (maybe New Balance?) ad in a magazine I saw once that said “No matter how far you run, you’re lapping everyone on the couch.” Or something to that effect. It was obviously a really memorable ad!
emeralds
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2JnYcuRW_qo
My favorite running commercial ever.
H
Yes yes! This helps me a lot. I guarantee you I’m slower and run far less distance but I always know it is better than sitting at home on the couch. And if people are judging you (which they most likely aren’t) than that’s their problem, not yours. And think about it – are you watching people run around you neighborhood? No one else is either.
emeralds
It has to become part of your routine and you need to get into the habit. The first 2-3 weeks back in after a layoff are the hardest for me–I can get through the first week on “yay running! excitement!” but then 2 and 3 drag. By week 4 I’m in the swing of things. FWIW, I’ll be in this situation in 1.5 months, which is when my life situation will shift such that running becomes a regular possibility in my life again. I promise you that my first few weeks out there, I will be running as slowly as molasses, because that’s just how it works.
ALSO let me just say, please do not feel self-conscious while you’re out there. Everyone starts somewhere, and as long as you’re out on the roads, trying your best and working to improve, you are not on a “terrible excuse for a run.” You are making a good choice for yourself, your body, and your health. It always breaks my heart when I hear people say that they feel self-conscious about running because they’re slow, or because they don’t look like what society says runners look like. If you need me to say it, I will say that nobody is paying as much attention to you as you think they are–I promise you, when I see someone out on a run, the only thing I think is “Awesome, look at that person out there trying, way to go!”
Runner 5
+1. I know a lot of super fit people who find running scary and say they look at even slow runners like me with respect.
When people see me running slowly and I start to feel embarrassed I remind myself that they have no idea that this isn’t just my cool down having already run ten miles ;) (I’ve never run ten miles in my life)
pugsnbourbon
I am fairly fit and I straight-up hate running. Major props to all y’all killing it out there.
Runner 5
I like listening to podcasts while I run and enjoying time not working that I don’t have to feel guilty about. When it’s hot I come home via the shop and the lure of the cold bottle of water is often what gets me through the last half mile.
TBK
Stop stop stop! No wonder you can’t get out of bed if you think of yourself as “dragging your slow, fat rear on a terrible excuse for a run.” I really loved the Runner’s World Complete Book of Women’s Running. One of its key points for beginners is that you can be a “runner” at any pace. You don’t have to be hitting 8 min miles, as long as you’re out there running, you’re a runner. Also, it encourages you to start out slow, alternating just a few minutes of running with several minutes of walking. Even if you’re not a beginner, the mindset is very freeing. It’s about getting out there and doing it, not about looking like a fitness model. It was a big revelation to me that I didn’t have to be a certain body type or have a certain fitness level to be a serious runner. All I needed to do to be a runner was to run.
First Year Anon
Well, people who run regularly won’t judge you. Or at least they shouldn’t. I don’t. When I’ve come back from injury I’ve been huffing and puffing running at a pace that is so slow to me now. My point is that every runner knows that you can’t tell how good a person is based off of the one time you see someone running- they could be doing an easy day, they could be on mile 17 of a run and are tired, they could be doing a 1 mile sprint. You do you!
Kay
I started running a few years ago, and was not at all a runner before that. I was self-conscience because I was so slow and not a “runner.” But I found a few things to be helpful. 1. Running in busy areas or on popular running trails/routes. It may sound counter-intuitive, but running in an area with a lot of commotion made it seem like no one was paying attention to me. 2. Setting weekly mileage goals. I’m a goal person so setting a mileage goal really helps me stay motivated. 3. Walk/Runs. For the days I have zero ambition and energy, I tell myself I only have to run 10 minutes at a time. Then walk for a few minutes, and then run for 10. I end up running for 30 minutes, but it seems more manageable when I get to take little breaks.
Terry
I run in the mornings. I have to take the dog out so the choice isn’t between an extra 30 minutes in bed and running. On my morning runs I’m really focused on myself; I think about how I’m running (legs tired today) and how I’m going to feel better today and this week because I’m getting exercise. I have never seen another person running and thought they didn’t belong. Instead I feel like I’ve just seen a fellow member of the world wide running club (we need a secret handshake!)
Scarlett
I run first thing in the morning – what gets me going is something I read here to the effect of “future you will be so happy if you get up and go now”. So I wake up and think of “future me”. I live really close to a large public park, so it’s easy to get to a place where I can run & that helps too.
Anonymous
I’m not a fast runner either. One of the these that got me is that I worked with a “real” runner (was in the olympics for the marathon). He told me how much he enjoys cheering the new runners so after a race he would always hang out at the finish line to see the faces of people finishing their first race. I realized two things 1- people who aren’t running are in no place to judge me and 2 – “real” runners like to share their sport with everyone and don’t look down at the slowpokes!
TravelBug
Love this :)
CountC7
This is one of the things I LOVE about trail races. All of the maniac super fast runners stick around and you get so many great jobs, clapping, hooting, etc., as you are coming into the finish that it feels awesome. Plus, I think that trail volunteers are the cheeriest around! I almost hugged the volunteer this weekend that told me I only had 2.5 to go at the last aid station when I thought I had at least 4.
b
How closely do you look at other runners when you’re out? Zip-zero-zilch? Thought so! They’re doing the exact same thing. Unless you’re wearing a chicken suit, you aren’t going to catch my attention when I’m running, and I’m a sloooow but steady type of runner. I lay all my clothes out on top of my shoes before bed. I time my alarm with a calendar alert that tells me what I need to do that day (run, swim or bike) and then just get up and do it without thinking about it. Find a podcast or audiobook that you like, and listen to that particular one only when you’re running. Track with an app (like Strava), it’s fun to see your progress. There are also some great apps to help you improve, whether you’re looking for longer distance or faster running. It sounds like you’re beyond couch to 5k but there are some “10k runner” and “5k faster” type apps that will help improve your speed.
TravelBug
My reaction to literally anyone running is, wow, they actually got up today and ran. You got off the comfy couch (or your equivalent)! That’s amazing.
Jealous of Spouse
Lots of work questions here today – I thought I would throw out another one. How do you deal when you are jealous of your spouse’s professional success and being disappointed/anxious about your own? My spouse is in a very in-demand field (engineering) and has easily found his last two positions and still gets constant recruiter calls. I am in the legal field and have had some career set-backs. I am currently looking for a position with similar work and work-life balance to what I had before, but these are far and few between. Other positions offer the work I would like to do but worse working conditions. None of these positions will be easy to get either, unlike spouse’s jobs. I’m happy that he’s been able to find something that he loves doing, but at the same time, I am upset that my own career path is not going as well, despite more years in school and what I think is a hard work ethic.
I’ve spoken to a therapist about this in the past and need to go back, but right now am focusing on the job search and family obligations. Any advice in the meantime?
Anonymous
No real advice, but commiseration. I’m in the same boat except my DH hasn’t had an easy career path either (he’s in academia), but he eventually got settled into a tenured position that he loves and is now basically set for life, while I’m still bouncing around trying to find the least terrible job. It’s been really hard on our marriage, to be honest.
Anonymous
Everything ebbs and flows. Lawyers have taken it in the teeth for the last 8-10 yrs, while engineering has been booming. There’s nothing that says that the legal market will NEVER improve and that engineering will ALWAYS be on the upswing. (I know there are people who think STEM is 100% recession proof but that’s just not the reality. Grew up with an engineer father –he and his buddies were recruited to come here in the 70s when the U.S. had huge engineering shortages and jumped from job to job making more and more money. And then from the 90s onward saw job after job being outsourced as companies realized that engineering work can be done in places where there are strong math skills even if the people don’t speak English. So I vividly remember dinner table conversations ALL THE TIME re well I’m on a project now but it ends in a month and after that if they don’t get any new work, I’ll be laid off.)
Not wishing anything bad for your husband’s career — just saying that industries go through periods of growth and struggle and over decades it DOES balance out.
AnonForThis
Someone recommended I repost here…
I need help. I’m from the north in a very diverse area, and I moved to the south. I work in an area where apparently, Jim Crow is still in place (I am white).
Whenever I go to lunch or grab something quick at the pharmacy, if there are any black people in front of me, they will LEAP out of line and insist I go ahead of them. The first time it happened, I thought it was just a fluke of overly polite men, but it’s happened multiple times with men and women of every age.
One time a teenager was in line and another man was behind me. He yelled at the teenager to get out of line because there was a white woman waiting. It was so awful and I tried to tell him no, that of course the teen should go ahead because he was there first, but he looked at me like I was crazy and insisted, saying white women always go first. The teenager apologized and said he hadn’t seen me, and promptly got behind me.
I cannot even put into words how uncomfortable this makes me and I have no idea how to handle it. What can I say/do? I had no idea this area was like this and it really depresses me.
JJ
I’m from the south, my family is from the south (deep south) and lives in the south, and I have never heard of or experienced this.
JJ
Also – pet peeve of mine – the South is diverse.
AnonForThis
I know the South is diverse, that’s why I was so shocked by this! It’s so bizarre to me
CPA Lady
I also find this completely shocking and bizarre. I’ve lived in GA, AL, and TN, in a variety of settings– the city, country, and small towns– for the past 30-ish years and I have never had anything like that happen to me or seen it happen to anyone else. I just needed to say that so that all the northern folks that read that comment don’t think that we’re all like that. We’re not! I promise! I have never heard of such a thing until now!
The only place I’ve been that was openly/casually racist was Selma, and that was 15 years ago… you’re not in Selma are you? (No offense to those of you from Selma if things have changed or if I just met a few racist asshats when I was there).
Anonymous
What!? That is cray. What part of the US? I’ve traveled all over the South and have never experienced anything like this.
AnonForThis
Alabama
Beans
Also in Alabama for many, many years, and have never experienced this behavior. Crazy!
Anonymous
Also in Alabama and have never, ever heard of or seen anything like this.
AlsoAnon
Also in Alabama and have never seen or heard of anything like this.
Shawna
How appalling, if true. Where can this place be? All of the places I have been down South are fully integrated, and some where the tables have turned in favor of the locals (who are, by the way, not in the minority there. As a result, those locals take advantage of us rather than the other way around (which is equally despicable). I say speak of from where you are located and writing about so we can check ourselves to see if this is, as I suspect, a line of blarney. The blacks I’ve seen down South are pretty much like those everywhere else.
anonymous
I’m also from the south (not white) and I have never heard of or experienced this.
Anonymous
Are you sure it’s not just “ladies first”? Or are they explicitly mentioning your race? I know the south is a lot politer so I can see how a male teen would be expected to let an older (than him – not old) lady go first as a sign of respect for a woman, but have never heard the race thing in modern times.
Anonymous
Yeah I would assume this is “ladies first” unless they literally said “white” women.
tesyaa
For sure – even here in the northeast, my colleagues who hail from the south always do the ladies first thing
AnonForThis
No, it has happened with both men and women.
In the case of the teenager, the guy who yelled at him specifically said “There is a WHITE woman here!”
Anon
I totally experienced this all the time in SC.
Anonymous
I have lived in SC for ten years, and was raised in NC, and have never experienced this.
Idea
I’m in Atlanta. I haven’t really seen this, but I’m white and female and pregnant and sometimes people ARE extremely generous.
I think of the allies at the sit-in counters — the white students who came after the African-American students, and sat there, and when the White students were offered service, said to the counter staff, “Oh no thank you, I won’t be served until these people in front of me are served.”
You can address it to the people “jumping” (?) out of line for you. “I’m not in a hurry. You were here first, I’ll wait after you.” You can also be sorta jokey about it — when men go out of their way to hold open the door for me, I sometimes say, “Aw, thanks! Your mama raised you right!”
You could also use the all-purpose, “Well, bless your heart, but that’s not necessary.”
Anonymous
I know “bless your heart” usage varies, but where I’m at it’s really only used in a condescending manner by fake women who think they’re so classy and above saying something mean or judgmental so they speak in code. I definitely would not use it in this context.
Anon
Yes, every time I hear someone say it, it makes me think they’re cackling about how clever they are on the inside. It’s a very rude thing to say..
emeralds
The appropriate recipient for a “bless your heart” in this scenario is whatever troglodyte told the kid in front of her to get out of line.
OP, this is disgusting. I will join the chorus begging you to please not judge the South by this bizarre place. We’ve got our issues, but I have never heard of something like this in my life. All you can do is refuse to participate and be served until the people in front of you have been helped; call out the people being racist d***heads you encounter in your life; and support local organizations or causes working against this kind of nonsense (in a non-White Hero ™ way).
AnonForThis
Oh I know it’s not the south thing! That’s why it’s so bizarre to me. I think it’s just isolated in this one area.
It isn’t rural, more suburban, but it honestly feel like it’s stuck in the 50’s. Guys ride around with confederate flags flying and all.
Shopping
Do.not.go.along with this. Just don’t. Refuse to place your prefer until the person in front of you has been served, or if you see black people waiting, browse around the store until it is your turn.
And make a few black friends, by whatever means you can. Talk to them about this.
AnonForThis
I really do try to politely but firmly insist they go ahead, but they have gotten really agitated and almost nervous. It really scares me;/upsets me.
My workplace is fairly diverse and I brought it up with the few coworkers I know well enough to talk to about this without offending (I’m very new) and both black and white coworkers acted like it was normal and no big deal, which scares me even more.
Little Red
So this man who yelled at the teenager, was he black or was he white? Who’s doing the policing here? Are you in some backwater where everyone knows everyone else so the price of not following the unwritten rules would be severe to the black person ala Emmett Till?
Anonforthis
He was black
Anon
Sad to hear this. I grew up in Raleigh and luckily never seen this type of thing. If it were me i might add a little bit of context when you decline to jump line to give people some info- like “I just moved here from x city and we never jump in line there” so people understand why you aren’t comfortable with this weird area norm. Otherwise they may feel like you’re daring them to do something that might get them in trouble- awful as that sounds. And it gently reinforces the idea that hey, its not like this in most places.
Shopping
I have a guess about where you are, having read a couple articles recently about people living the same as sharecroppers and horrid schools for black kids.
They get nervous because you’re challenging normal reality, and the black guy who got yelled at was probably wondering if he was going to get a beating. The most you’re likely to be able to change is that maybe they might decide it’s ok for you to wait. But I doubt even that will happen.
There are organizations that formed to combat this. and it must violate Fed laws on public accommodations and protected classes. I would seriously get in touch with the Southern Poverty Law Center, and probably with the Attorney General as well.
I’ve entered my email here, hope that means that you can click on my name and email me. I’m also turning on follow up comments. I would be genuinely interested in hearing how this develops.
Anonymous
This post cannot possibly be real.
Anon
Because you’ve been in every town in the south to testify to that?
I’ve experienced something similar, and not even in that rural of an area. I was in Missouri about 10 years ago and noticed something similar – African Americans letting you go ahead of the line, stepping out of the way….it was really strange.
Maudie Atkinson
Life-long southerner here. I’ve lived in Alabama, Georgia, Louisiana, South Carolina, and Tennessee, in state capitals, rural communities, and places in between. I have never seen this happen as it relates to race, though I have definitely seen it as it relates to gender and age.
Like emeralds, I’ll join the chorus to say this is not typical. Within the confines of what makes you comfortable and your best judgment of what makes those around you comfortable, I’d urge you to resist others’ insistence that you go ahead of them. The South is a weird, wart-filled place, but this is a whole other level. Please, don’t think this is representative.
Shopaholic
Anyone want to do some vicarious shopping for me?
I’m going to a black tie event in a couple weeks (men wear tuxes, women usually wear anything between a cocktail dress to a long fancy gown). I generally fall closer to the fancy cocktail dress, which is what most younger women end up wearing.
I’m looking for something this year that fits (I’m a pear that holds a lot of weight in my tummy so something flowy is preferable) but also has some personality. I’ve been going to this event for 5 years now and I don’t want to wear another black dress. I’m easy on budget – preferably under $300?
Thanks all! I’m going in-person shopping tomorrow but I could use some direction/suggestions!
Killer Kitten Heels
I’m a fan of A-line (also a pear, here) so these are some of my favorite A-line options at Nordstrom right now:
http://shop.nordstrom.com/s/chelsea28-print-faux-wrap-dress/4242112?origin=category-personalizedsort&fashioncolor=BLUE%20WATERCOLOR%20FLORAL%20PRINT (not exactly A-line, but would probably work, although depending on how the fabric looks in person, might not be dressy enough)
http://shop.nordstrom.com/s/eliza-j-cutout-back-lace-fit-flare-dress-regular-petite/4248178?origin=category-personalizedsort&fashioncolor=COBALT (love the color and the back on this one)
http://shop.nordstrom.com/s/alfred-sung-v-neck-dupioni-cocktail-dress/3779310?origin=category-personalizedsort&fashioncolor=MAJESTIC (a little more classic/basic, but it comes in tons of colors)
http://shop.nordstrom.com/s/j-o-a-lace-fit-flare-midi-dress/4259982?origin=category-personalizedsort&fashioncolor=BLACK (black, but with an interesting neckline, and the midi length is really “in” right now)
http://shop.nordstrom.com/s/eliza-j-illusion-yoke-lace-fit-flare-dress/3789892?origin=category-personalizedsort&fashioncolor=NAVY (love the pattern and the neckline)
http://shop.nordstrom.com/s/eliza-j-belted-jacquard-midi-dress/4374271?origin=category-personalizedsort&fashioncolor=NEW%20SILVER (like the pattern and the belt)
Anonymous
I’m crushing on this right now, tried it on at Nordstrom a few weeks ago – nowhere to wear it, though.
http://shop.nordstrom.com/s/ellen-tracy-jersey-print-satin-ballgown/4134179?origin=category-personalizedsort&fashioncolor=BLACK%2F%20IVORY
Julia
Love
Anon
I want a place to wear this dress: http://www.bhldn.com/dresses-party-dresses/coppelia-dress-steel-blue/productoptionids/cc711545-c9fb-466b-b1b6-fb219575ca88
NY CPA
I have this dress in royal blue and I ABSOLUTELY LOVE IT. I wore it to a black tie dinner and felt perfectly dressed.
http://shop.nordstrom.com/sr?origin=keywordsearch&contextualcategoryid=0&keyword=adrianna+papell+mikado
Shopaholic
Thank you so much ladies! I’m going to see what I can find tomorrow!
Cat
Ok, frivolous problem time:
My SIL just asked me what I’d like for Christmas (no, not Christmas 2016, but 2015… she’s um, a bit late). She usually spends around $100.
At this time of year, I’m not in “wish list” mode, and my brainstorming has resulted only in unhelpful $10 (nail polish) and $400 (new coffee table) type ideas — suggestions please??
(For context, we live in a downtown rowhouse (so lawn/garden/car stuff not helpful) and otherwise the only things I’ll rule out are (1) anything outdoorsy… to quote Monk in distress “I have nature on me!” and (2) gift cards, bc SIL has an odd aversion to them, even when they’re for experiences — prob bc she’s a good sale shopper and would want to get me something that originally cost more than $100)
CountC
A donation to your favorite charity?
Killer Kitten Heels
Do you trust her taste? Would you like a new summer handbag? Because that seems like a good idea.
Sydney Bristow
I have a book wish list that I keep on Amazon and it’s become the perfect thing for times like this. Its easy to buy any number to match your budget. And I LOVE getting new books.
Shopping
Packing cubes if you’re going on vacation. If you aren’t, you could ask her to put together a staycation kit for you & her brother–candles, lotion or massage oil, decor, music, etc.
Something for your home? Pullout recycling/trash bins, getting a niche–like the area behind your kitchen desk–wallpapered, toekick drawers & new hardware for your kitchen, task lighting/under cabinet lights,
Sports gear: Monkey gym or other suspension gear, a yoga swing
Commission a piece of art for $100 from an artist you pick.
Power tools: drill, vacuum, sewing machine
I can think of lots of ways someone could drop $100 for me!
Cat
ooh, thanks for the suggestions so far!
books are tempting because I rarely buy them for myself (vs. suffering through the library ebook waitlist). and the home suggestions are a good prompt to get me thinking about possible upgrades. maybe some new bathroom accessories will be headed my way!
S in Chicago
Audible.com subscription? I know you said no gift cards but this is my favorite thing to get. Don’t know how I would get through my commute and long walk to the train station without. Even weekend errand running is so much better. Seriously has changed my life.
Stuck in the Marital Loop of Frustration
Having a day where one – no two – of my spouse’s bad qualities are taking center stage. Husband took on basically an additional assignment last winter and spring. Involved him being gone one night a week until ~10PM for five months. We have a 2 and 1 year old; which means either I had to leave work early or we had to pay a babysitter.
He was supposed to get a stipend – half in January, half in May. He didn’t get his January stipend and then – back in January – I started reminding him of it. He kept not contacting HQ about it. Same thing in May. Finally this morning at 6AM I just blew up at him about how we needed this darn gosh money and he need to get it done TODAY.
He calls me at lunch about something else and then proceeds to tell me he finally called and it turns out his contract was sent to his old office location (but he was evidently notified last year and just did not come by to get it – although he goes to that location at least monthly) and so he never signed it. He did all this work and never signed his contract. Yesterday at 4PM was the cutoff for the last pay period of the fiscal year – the BOD met last night and made all final appropriations. If he had signed the contract, there would be no issue. But he did all this work for months and never asked about the contract, and now they are saying it’s too late, he can’t get paid. It was a $3,000.00 stipend and it’s gone.
So, I’m frustrated about that. But I’m livid about the second quality of his, which is that when he feels bad about himself he wants to decide how stupid something outside of him is. So he wants to go off about the stupidity of bureaucratic paperwork. And he refuses to apologize for “not being the cog in the wheel” who follows the paperwork rules.
BUT HE NEEDS TO APOLOGIZE TO ME. I am not a big enough person to learn that it cost us hundreds in babysitter money, I’m sure a portion of my own bonus, and then be understanding that he might feel bad inside and that’s why he’s acting like a 5 year old.
He made a mistake.
I have reminded him to get this done for literally FIVE MONTHS.
It is now too late to fix it.
We are out $3,000 (that’s a decent amount of money to us)
He refuses to apologize or admit fault.
I’m so angry I’m not even angry. I just don’t even want to have anything to do with him. This wasn’t a single oops I forgot. This was months of telling me I was overreacting, he would get it taken care of. And he refuses to apologize.
Would love some kind of advice. FWIW, we’ve been married 7 years and I don’t want to divorce him, I just want to hate him for a good while.
Idea
Hate on, sister. My husband never apologizes, either. It’s my fault somehow. Ugh.
He clearly has issues. No advice. But you’re OK to be mad.
emeralds
Not married, but you are so SO justified in being furious. I literally cannot think of any other appropriate response to a f**kup of that magnitude.
Anonymous
Yeah, hate on. I would be furious.
JJ
Be mad. It’s ok to be mad at him. And it’s ok to do exactly what you want: don’t want to divorce but be so angry that you can barely think.
My husband will apologize, but he also pulls that crap where the reason he screwed up is a result of all these other things and never directly his fault. He’s tried to change but eventually goes back to it, and I’ve accepted that it will never be a permanent change. Price of admission and all that.
Anonymous
Preach!
And if you do individual spending money – this DEFINITELY comes out of that. He chose to leave $3000 on the table but it was his choice so he should eat the cost out of his ‘fun money’ budget.
Little Red
You’ve definitely earned the right to be furious. And definitely take your pound of flesh out of him financially. This comes out of his pot of money alone and you and the kids don’t suffer in any way for it.
Anon
WOW. I am furious for you. Can he negotiate a bigger raise because he did all this extra work without $? (Though personally if I had an employee so disorganized/whatever that they didn’t sign the contract, I wouldn’t want to give him more money.) To be fair, though, I have done similarly huge screw ups. Usually it was due to depression or anxiety but it has left me with a ton of shame. So I would be furious and want an apology, but remember there may be a reason he did this.
If not, though, I vote to make him sleep on the couch!
Senior Attorney
Wow. That sucks.
Hate away!
Anonymous
Oh man, I’m going to be the voice of dissent here.
Yea, he messed up. And he cost your family $3,000. And it was all 100% preventable.
But… I dunno… $3,000 is (in the long run) not worth me resenting my husband or punishing him. You’re right to feel however you feel, and if that’s anger, that’s totally ok (not that you’re asking my permission). But making him sleep on the couch or taking money out of his personal fund is not really addressing the problem and only adds to the mutual resentment. Y’all need to figure out why he didn’t handle this sooner. I guarantee he does not feel 100% blameless in this. He might be outsourcing blame but unless he’s completely unaware, he knows he is at fault. And he’s probably beating himself up over it, even if he’s not vocalizing that to you. I’m not saying forgive and forget. But I think once the anger subsides and you can sit down and talk about it… try to get at why that $3,000 stipend was not worth his aggressive and timely pursuit. There’s something more going on there than run of the mill procrastination.
Meg Murry
This is the kind of thing that my husband would do too, and it drives me craaaaaaazy. I’m seeing red on your behalf right now.
IMO, if he just found out today, I get him being mad at the system instead of ready to apologize. For maybe a day or two. But after that, he owes you some major groveling. And he also can’t complain about you “nagging” him in the future – he’s lost that.
The only thing that works in situations like this with my husband (to make him get things done, before it reaches the “too late” point) is to remind him once, and then say “Ok, fine. When will you have it done? Give me a date.” and then as long as he picks a reasonable date (1-2 weeks from that day for most things), I put it on my calendar and drop it until then. But after that date – I reserve the right to turn into a nagging shrew, including setting alarms on his phone and using delayed send text and email messages.
But tonight? I think he gets to put the kids to bed by himself while you go be anywhere but home, and then he can enjoy sleeping on the couch. But that’s just me.
anon
He owes you an apology. He owes both of you a conversation with the company about how deserves to be paid for this work, contract be d*amned. That’s rude of them to accept the work he’s been doing (assuming that they know he’s been doing it) and then pull a fast one that they somehow get it for free just because the contract wasn’t signed. He’s performed his end of the contract and the company benefited from that work. I think he should make his case that he is owed the money as a matter of fairness/equity.
AKB
My husband put $3000 on his personal credit card for a business trip and then … no reimbursement. He says the company messed up the paperwork. I think he didn’t file his expense report in a timely manner. I still get irritated when I think about, but I am trying to let it go. So frustrating.
Wink
My sincere advice is don’t choose the hate. Feel angry, yes, explain your anger to him when you can do it rationally, but if you really do want to stay married, find a way to choose forgiveness and move on.
My husband and I went through a lengthy period of trouble over similar things, and I’ll be honest, it took time + therapy + prayer to get through it, but we did that work because we really wanted to. And looking back, each time I allowed myself to really dwell in my negative feelings towards him it only accomplished making it that much harder to shake off those feelings when I realized I wanted to be happy and love him. It wasn’t worth it.
anony
It sounds like you want an apology because he treated you like a stupid nag instead of like a valued partner for MONTHS. Can you put it that way? “Yes, the payroll system is dumb. I can cosign that. But: you owe me an apology for ignoring me and treating me like I was unreasonable and overreacting when I asked you to take care of this issue. That’s not about the money, it’s about you devaluing me in our relationship. It’s not okay for you to downplay and ignore my legitimate concerns, and make me doubt myself so that I don’t speak up until I’m at the end of my rope. It would be a huge problem even if there were no financial consequence to it.”
Three thousand bucks is a pity, but it’s a recoverable setback. It’s the sustained disrespect that has to be addressed rather than ignored. Sure, he’s probably feeling angry and ashamed of himself for not being more on the ball, and you don’t need to pile on about that. But your concerns deserve the dignity of serious consideration, and you shouldn’t be put in a position where you have to completely freak out in order to get through to him.
Stuck in the Marital Loop of Frustration
Thank you for this. I’m probably going to copy and past that in an email to him.
Seeking your experience
How does being an overachieving chick with high expectations for yourself affect your relationship with your SO/partner? How does it affect your self-esteem? How does it affect your perception of YOU and your accomplishments in and out of the office?
The regular therapist says I’m OK, the husband says I need to stop berating him for not living up to my standards (I’m not, I’m asking him for help as I go through a rough spot) and the marriage counselor says I need to approve of myself more (?!). I’m not sure I “get it” — any perceptions or advice or experience appreciated. Thanks.
Stuck in the Marital Loop of Frustration
Haha, I’m actually Marital Frustration above, so take my advice with a grain of salt. What you describe sounds like what I just got over a year or two ago – that my husband, in a way, is such a reflection of me and my own choices, than when he makes what I think are poor decisions, I get much more angry and upset about it than I do if, say, my sister would make those decision. Like, who wants to think they married a poor choice making person?
I don’t know what to tell you except two therapists explained this to me and then one day I finally “got” it and can give myself space (or become angry for different reasons, see above!) from the times he doesn’t do what I think he ought to. Somebody else making poor decisions is not actually a reflection on me at all.
Anonymous
” my husband, in a way, is such a reflection of me and my own choices, than when he makes what I think are poor decisions, I get much more angry and upset about it ”
Wow. You may have just changed my life. And my marriage.
anony
This was a huge realization for me, and it applies to both spouses and kids. They are their own separate people who can make weird jokes and screw up and make choices I don’t agree with. They aren’t just mirrors in whom I am reflected to a judgmental public.
Not only did that realization make me much less of a jerk to be around, it also made me realize that the only place I can ethically expend my ambition is in my own life. (To be fair, I grew up in a conservative religious subculture in which ambition was only acceptable when channeled through husband and children, so this wasn’t exactly obvious to me out of the box.) It’s done wonders for my personal happiness and career to pull back from overinvolvment in my loved ones’ choices and look at my discomfort as a symptom of dissatisfaction with myself that I’m projecting onto my spouse. So it makes perfect sense to me that your marriage therapist is identifying this issue as a problem with your own self-image. If you were comfortable in your own skin, you wouldn’t worry that a judgment of your husband was a condemnation of you by proxy.
What are you afraid people will think of you? Why?
jwalk
It means I have really high expectations for myself, which I of course don’t always meet and sometimes beat myself up for, but then a friend will mention off-hand that I always look put-together, or I’m so organized, and I get pulled back down to earth that I’m not terrible and I’m not perfect, but somewhere in between, and that’s still great. So my self-esteem is kind of always fluctuating, but it’s never bad. As for my relationship with my SO, it varies. I get frustrated sometimes that he isn’t as driven as I am, but I think part of it is that he isn’t big on sharing details from his day, so even if he blew his boss away with an awesome work product I won’t hear it about it and will only see the lack of promotion or acknowledgement. And he’s happy, which matters more. I think the hardest things, though, are the issues that always come with co-habitating. Why does he leave his clothes on the floor instead of placing them in the hamper? Why does he sit and play video games when he know he has a bunch of chores to do? Why does it take him a week and a half to email back the flooring install person when I’ve been asking him about it for days? I’ve gotten better about these issues, and part of it is just accepting, like Stuck in the Loop said, that his decision making has little to no effect on me. I only get upset about it now if he has actually inconvenienced me in some way (i.e., we’re late getting to an event because he hadn’t roused himself from video games in time to shower before leaving). I find it’s worse if I’m stressed out, because I don’t have the same patience and just kind of explode on the poor guy over the same issues I am able to more easily deal with on other days. Thankfully he’s very understanding.
Anon
If a person with really high expectations married someone who is the same, and those expectations are in the same areas, wouldn’t it mean that when you fall short, might a significant other metaphorically beat you up for it in addition to experiencing it internally?
Senior Attorney
I’m late to this, but oh my gosh! Please stop this!
He leaves his clothes on the floor because that’s how he rolls. He’s not going to change. Your choices are (a) accept it as the Price of Admission to the relationship, and either let things go or do them yourself (or take separate cars to the event because he’s late or whatever), or (b) decide you can’t live with it and break up with him. But please, for the love of all that is holy, do not continue to pick at him like this.
People are not improvement projects. This is a perfectly happy guy and it seems insane to be criticizing him or worse for not living up the the insane expectations you put on yourself. Eventually he will get sick of it and you will have that nice clean house with no clothes on the floor.
Parfait
As someone who leaves her clothes on the floor, I thank you.
Anon
In our marriage, I am more driven, make roughly 20% more money than him, plan for our retirement or home purchase or having children, take on more house hold responsibilities.
My husband can do something like the above poster wrote. We were hit by a big tax bill in 2015 because his employer withheld less tax from him paycheck. I told him, reminded him multiple times through out 2015 to fix it. He said he fixed it. In 2016, again a big tax bill because apparently his employer didn’t fix it even though he asked for it. I was furious, but it was not big deal for him.
For most part, I have accepted that I will be the one who does heavy lifting at home. He is a very good human being and has an amazing sense of humour. He can make me laugh in any situation (however sad/angry I am). He does a job that he likes and does it well. He contributes equally to household expenses (not chores though).
I think he compliments me well. Some times, I look at him and tell him that he is Buddha like, because there are very few things that can stress him out. I have never seen him comparing himself to others or becoming jealous of others. He is genuinely happy when I do well at work or get a promotion. He has no need to control others, so I am absolutely free to do whatever I like. I am just amazed by him as I am so different than him. I feel I should be more like him..and I fall in love with him over and over again.
Newlywed
My husband and I are both overachieving Type A personalities in the same field, which actually helps us more than it hurts us, as we can often relate to each other’s professional challenges and frustrations. However, he normally takes a very different approach to professional situations than I would, so while I appreciate his advice, I don’t always take it, which frustrates him.
The frustrating thing is that his Type A personality stops at the office, whereas mine extends to my whole life. I like making plans, getting ahead of tasks like paying bills, cleanliness, and order, whereas my husband could literally pay late fees on his car registration renewal for the rest of his life without it bothering him at all. He’s kind of a mess, which I struggle to understand since I know how “on it” he is when it comes to his career. I’ve learned that I basically have to accept that I will be closing drawers and picking up his socks forever, because he literally doesn’t see those things the way that I do. If something REALLY bothers me, I’ll make a point to bring it up with him, but I let most of the little annoyances slide because it’s not worth the bickering/misunderstanding and he’s pretty great in most other areas.
My husband has made me more confident in my professional abilities, though. I have a classic case of imposter syndrome and stepping into a new leadership role at work last year really exacerbated that for me. When I feel that way, I try to see myself through my husband’s eyes (not in a like, “You’re so pretty and sweet and funny, I’m glad you’re my wife” kind of a way, but in a “This other very smart accomplished professional in my field thinks that I’m smart and good at what I do and asks me for advice on work matters” kind of way). It helps combat that feeling that I have no idea what I’m doing and how dare I be given so much responsibility.
Echo
Have you had relationships that have ended… well, nicely?
I’m in the process of phasing out a nearly year-long, very intense relationship that we both very much wanted, but just isn’t possible for the long-term (different goals, different cities). We have one more trip together that I’m very much looking forward to, though I’m sure it will be quite bittersweet.
I don’t harbor any ill-will at all, and can’t fault either of us for not aligning, but it’s unlike any experience I’ve had before — just a shame we have to end it, since when we’re together, it’s so wonderful. In fact, I’m looking forward to recovering, maintaining a (more distant) friendship with him, and moving on to be in a good space that’s hospitable for a sustainable, equitable long-term partnership. This is unlike any breakup I’ve really heard about, since we’ve agreed to an “expiration date” and know it’s coming, but are enjoying the time we have.
Ladies — any insight or similar stories you can offer? While it’s a “soft exit,” it’s still incredibly difficult as we’re both still very much in love and I’m quite sad to be losing many aspects of the relationship. TIA.
anonymous
You’re sure it’s not possible? Because what you describe here is hard to find.
Echo
Very sure, sadly — it’s a clearly dead-end relationship that wasn’t moving towards building a life together, as he hasn’t — or hasn’t wanted to — give up the last (non-romantic but co-habitual) aspects of a previous long-term relationship despite best and previous intentions, which ultimately doesn’t work for me. It’s quite a sad and difficult situation, especially since we’re both aware that the affection/love/chemistry we found was incredibly intimate and I think rare. I’m hoping to find that with someone else that does want to build a life together, but… of course, it’s a difficult thought.
Anonymous
Hmm this changes what I first thought. I guess I don’t buy that he can’t let go of an ex despite “best intentions.” I would try to let go of your hopes for a friendship. This actually sounds very similar to what I had with an ex. I was crazy about him and he spun whistful tales about how we couldn’t be together but maybe would meet up once a year and reminisce etc etc. turns out he was with about 5 other women or had them lined up and when I look back now he was just a run of the mill a hole. I could be projecting a bit but the way you describe just sounds exactly like I would have described it back then
Echo
Well, there’s a reason the relationship is ending, after all. I can’t fault anyone for having different desires, and we’ve both been extremely clear and communicative every step of the way. When I say best intentions, I truly mean it — he doesn’t have a harmful bone in his body, and it takes quite a lot to have the courage to tell me what he wants and needs, too, when you know what you’re sharing is likely a deal-breaker. I appreciate honesty even in an ending relationship. I hope you recovered well after your relationship, too — sometimes it’s hard to see beyond.
Anonymous
I agree that different cities is not insurmountable, but different goals can be. Love is definitely not always enough. Hugs, Echo. It sounds like you’re doing this very thoughtfully and I hope you both find what you’re looking for.
Echo
Thanks very much. : )
Anonymous
Can I just say, you having a very calming energy about you. I know that’s weird to say to an internet stranger, but everything you’re writing makes me think you have a very empathetic and sensitive soul.
Echo
Thank you, I’m touched.
cc
Yes- I was moving away 10 hours away for a job and we had only been seeing each other for 4 months so it didn’t make sense to do long distance. 3 days after I moved he called and said f- it id rather date you from afar than date anyone else. A year later he followed me and now we have been married for 7 years.
I don’t mean to not be any help- but distance isn’t a reason to not be together. If it is bigger things like you are mismatched than it should just get easier with time
Not so easy...
I had a very similar situation. I was moving halfway around the world and though my partner and I were very happy together and had a great relationship, we weren’t at the point to make a serious enough commitment to do the distance. After I found out I was moving, we had a lovely last few months together, enjoying every last minute with each other possible. I thought I would leave, we’d stay in touch as friends, and hopefully find a way to visit every once in a while, though still moving on with our individual lives.
Fast forward six months…it’s been really hard. For a long time it felt like we hadn’t really “broken up”, especially since we were talking often, so I kept mistakenly calling him my boyfriend. And though I had been happy about my move and the idea of being single in a new city, the move was tougher than I thought and I had forgotten how much dating sucks. So while I’m in a new place with a boring social life and not many dating prospects, he’s been going out a lot and, as far as I can tell, enjoying being single again. Which sucks. And I think he was feeling guilty about being at a bar and meeting women and then trying to keep in touch with me, so not unsurprisingly our communications dropped off. While that’s probably good for my ability to move on, it just leaves a hole for me since there’s still so many things that happen on a daily basis that I want to share with him and now just feel awkward doing so. I also miss him far more than I expected to.
All of which is a long way of saying that it might be harder than you expect it to be, especially if you guys are living near each other and could easily fall back into a romantic entanglement whenever one of you is lonely/drunk/missing the other. But good luck!
Echo
Thank you, this is really helpful. I might have to reexamine being friends without a period of communication separation (in-person isn’t a problem, he lives abroad!). Sorry it’s been difficult for you, too.
LAnon
Yes, +1 to this. I was on the opposite end of this – my boyfriend moved halfway around the world and I stayed in our original city. It was still very similar. I was NOT over him and I didn’t even try to get over him. We were officially “broken up” but we still talked all the time and I still harbored some fantasy that he’d come back or I would miraculously get a job transfer or something.
Things really deteriorated. I would be incredibly hurt if he missed a Skype session or wasn’t around on Gchat. Even just living his life – every time he did something that made his move there more permanent, like buying a car, I would be really moody and emotional. Honestly, I think it must have been exhausting for him. Finally, I decided that he wasn’t treating me well and declared we couldn’t talk anymore. I think I was being a bit over-dramatic about him not treating me well, but cutting off contact wound up being a very good idea.
Eventually we resumed contact. Now we talk every few weeks instead of every day. I still have feelings for him on some level but was so hurt by him moving away and the months that followed that they are greatly diminished. It’s kind of a sucky situation because I do still feel like there might have been something real there, but, y’know, some things just aren’t meant to be.
Echo
Thanks for this. It seems like a similar situation, and it’s certainly hard to decide whether or not it’s better to have no, little, or a little more contact with someone like that you’ve been intimately connected with. Maybe it’s just time that will tell.
Julia
Wait. Is your question how to maintain a friendship with the man you’ve been having an affair with who won’t leave his actual partner? Everyone seems to be skipping over this (because of the way you framed it). The answer is that you don’t. Really. Just don’t. For your own sake and for his partner’s sake. He will gladly keep you emotionally committed to him for as long as you are willing. He’ll gladly take all of the support you provided with none of the hassle of the physical affair he’s decided to stop pursuing. You need to move on.
Echo
Oh, that’s not the situation at all, thankfully — just for context, it hasn’t ever been an affair, and is (at the moment) an exclusive romantic relationship.
My question is more about seeking advice for the feasibility of restarting and/or maintaining contact with someone who’s very special, but for lifestyle reasons, we aren’t compatible long-term as partners.
B
A year ago, I was in a similar situation–I was moving across the country and we both agreed that the relationship wasn’t going anywhere final. We had a lovely last few months and ended on a very sweet note. It took about a month for him to decide that he did not actually want to break up, that I had made him feel like he had to agree to end things, that I led him on by maintaining mutually-agreed to contact in the month after I moved, etc. It was exacerbated by personal/work issues, but I (selfishly) resented having to be his support person when I was trying to make friends and do exciting things in a new city. I also realized that the relationship was toxic and miserable, and I met someone else. I felt guilty and trapped, he felt betrayed and bitter, and we cut off contact.
I definitely did things wrong, but I haven’t talked to anyone for whom this kind of soft exit has worked for. Even with LOTS of communication, you end up on different pages.
Sydney Bristow
Can we talk Father’s Day presents?
On the advice of people here, I got my dad a Mars globe for Christmas and it was hands down the best present I’ve ever given him. It’s the only time he hasn’t been able to guess what it was and he actually left the area where we were all opening presents to check it out and got totally distracted.
He’s a couple of years away from retirement and usually just buys what he wants. He’s into space, travel (some international), backpacking, RV travel, and college football.
I’m thinking of trying to find some sort of travel item because he and my stepmom have started traveling more over the past few years and have several trips planned. Any ideas? $25-50 preferred.
Shopping
Would he like a Galileo’s thermometer? It doesn’t exactly fit any of those niches, but seems adjacent to a couple of them.
I’m looking for ideas for my dad too. He’s 80 and losing his memory, but still so dear to me!
Sydney Bristow
Digital picture frame loaded with pictures? You could even reach out to other friends and family to gather old pictures he may not have or have seen.
Shopping
Did that with my sisters a few years back :)
Everything I suggested to you is something I’ve given either Mom or Dad.
Shopping
Hitting “publish” gave me more ideas :)
Binoculars
Snap on lenses for the camera in his phone, like olioclip
Packing cubes & stuff sacks
Does he have slides or photos from long ago? You could have them scanned for him and then select some for a slide show.
Books about the places where they have trips planned!
Anon
Where are they going? Maybe we can come up with some ideas based on that.
Sydney Bristow
Germany (possibly a river cruise but I’m trying to convince them to go explore on their own), a resort in Honduras, and NYC to visit me.
The photo attachments for his phone sounds pretty good right now. He’s got a huge backlog of books he wants to read and I’ve learned it’s almost impossible to try and jump the queue.
Shopping
My parents have done several riverboat tours with Tauck. I think they were all at least partially in Germany. They really loved them. I still don’t think it’d be for me, but there are always neat “extras” built in, like a musical performance in an accustically amazing part of a castle. They also have enjoyed and gotten along with the other people on the ship. I think that lots of things that I’d consider irritations can seem really difficult to them; the tour company smooths all that out for them. If they sign up with this company, they will be “assigned” books related to their trip. If they do it now, you could get the books for him for Father’s Day :)
Senior Attorney
I would be irked if my grown son tried to convince me to change my vacation plans because he considered them inadequate in some way. Just sayin’.
Vi
+1
Sydney Bristow
Oh I definitely don’t think they are inadequate! I think it just isn’t really their travel style. They tend to like a more free-wheeling travel schedule. My much older aunt went on one and loved it and recommended they try one, but it suits her travel personality. I think my parents would love Germany along the Rhine and would regret not getting to spend more time in areas they stumbled across. Ultimately they’ll do whatever they want though and that’s totally fine!
Shopping
http://m.tauck.com/river-cruises/european-river-cruises/rhine-river-cruising.aspx
Note that itineraries include free time at nearly every stop.
Anon
Thier style might have changed. I was surprised when my free-wheeling adventure explorer parents started to go to to all-inclusive resorts instead. I found out later that thier eyesight wasn’t as sharp for map reading and they got lost a lot, and they were becoming a little forgetful so going out on thier own in new places started to be anxiety-producing. They hid thier aging well so I didn’t realize at first.
Anonymous
I always get my parents guidebooks for the places they’re going to travel in the upcoming year.
Shopping
Even if they already have guide books, there are histories of specific events, historical overviews, biographies of famous people associated with that place, and novels set in the area.
Sydney Bristow
All of these are awesome ideas. I’m never able to give him books that he’ll read any time soon though. He reads often but has his to-read list all mapped out in order. I might try anyway if I find a really good one though.
Shopping
Why does it matter when he reads it? As long as it brings him enjoyment sometime, it sounds good to me! No newly married couple goes straigh home and makes cookies, but they appreciate the stand mixer all the same. (Can you tell I make lots of excuses to myself for getting my dad some pretty silly things-like the pizza cutter that had a monkey handle so it looked like he was riding a unicycle & had pedals that turned when the wheel turned?)
Sydney Bristow
I was thinking that if it was tied to their destination that he would want to read it before. But now that I think about it, a non-guidebook related to the place could be a fun way to revisit the memories.
Anon
I am obsessed with packing cubes. (Not kidding — I probably have 6 different kinds.) My latest favorite are the Eagle Creek compression cubes. The only problems are that they are super expensive and not see through, but I solved that by getting different colors of them that I use for different things (big red one = shirts, big green one = pants, etc.) I also like the Rick Steves packing cubes because they are see through, super light, collapse easily, and are much cheaper.
Other ideas:
– make a photo book out of his photos from a particular trip.
– A [insert country here] from Above book. (Book of photos of a country.)
– A money belt. (Seriously. Saved my husband when he was swarmed by pickpockets in Rome. Well, that and my running, screaming, across the plaza to shoo them off, which attracted the police.)
Senior Attorney
OMG I got a set of Eagle Creek compression cubes for my last trip and they were a total game-changer! OMG OMG OMG. Love, love, love!
So, yes. Also the money belt.
Maybe a nice straw hat for Honduras.
Shopping
I have given packing cubes a couple of times, hoping to get enough feedback to decide if I want to get some for myself. But I don’t think the nephew who graduated from college recently has had a need for his clothing to look neat when he’s traveled, and my mom refuses to comment. So may I ask you?
Have you tried the stretchy Eagle Creek cubes (or any ofhers that stretch) and how do they compare?
Are Eagle Creek’s estimates of how many items fit in the folders accurate?
Are Ziplock’s compression bags a similar experience to packing cubes?
Do the compression cubes really fit more into the same space, or is it just that the sweater is pre-crushed before you close the luggage?
Thanks in advance!
Senior Attorney
I don’t know about compression bags and I don’t know about the estimate of items. All I know is I put a week’s worth of clothes in the stretchy Eagle Creek cube and it took up a tiny amount of space in my suitcase and they stayed nice and non-wrinkly. I am a total convert!
Shopping
Thanks!
Min Donner
I have the old version of the eBags cubes (in all sizes) and they are amazing. They compress if you want (I was able to almost double the amount of space for clothes in my suitcase by repacking stuff in cubes- just beware there will be more wrinkles in wrinkly fabric), or just organize if you want. eBags has just launched their new line of packing cubes which have better zippers and more mesh viewing and these kind of collapsible frames and I’m drooling… but I can’t justify buying newer-better ones when what I have works great. Seriously, it makes packing SO much more convenient if you put things in designated cubes.
Shopping
Can you answer any of my questions below, please?
Runner 5
I always give books to my father. A recent hit has been The Boys In The Boat and I have Prisoners of Geography lined up next (about geopolitics)
Tetra
Ladies, how do you handle wedding planning while in BigLaw (or similar demanding job)? I am already planning to take off 2 weeks for my honeymoon, but I have to take a few hours off to meet with the florist, a different afternoon off to do a tasting, and all these meetings add up to a few days away from my desk. Plus I have other friends’ weddings to go to this year, so I’m ending up taking a fair bit of time off for all this. It’s getting overwhelming and I’m regretting agreeing to take various Fridays and Mondays off for weddings and bachelorette parties. Anyone else feeling this way?
Shopping
Flextime?
I think people know this is going to happen when a co-worker gets engaged, and they brace themselves for it. So they expect that you will have a lot of planning to do, even though they may not appreciate it.
lawsuited
I expect an engaged colleague to take time off to get married and go on a honeymoon. I absolutely would not expect them to miss work just to plan their wedding.
Shopping
Flextime is not missing work. It is moving it to another time.
lawsuited
Sure, but it is being out of the office during usual business hours when partners expect you to be available. Assuming OP is an associate, not being in the office during usual business hours because she’s meeting with a florist for 3 hours is not going to impress anyone.
Anonymous
What!? This is definitely not true in Big Law. People expect you to take a long vacation for the wedding/honeymoon, but that’s it.
Shopping
I’ve certainly seen people try to stay late/come in early to make up for leaving for appointments. A few years ago, this blog had lots of regulars who would talk about trying to squeeze in the phone calls and emails for weddings planning while they were at work. It’s pretty much the same thing, and lets your coworkers and boss down just as much as physical absence. I certainly don’t recomend doing anything that you know your colleagues would “brace themselves” for and they you know they “won’t like” (words I used in my OP). Sorry if my comment came off as an endorsement or recomendaction. That is not what I intended.
Shopping
oops–actual words were “may not appreciate” along with “brace themselves”
Definitely not positive
lawsuited
It’s way more reasonable for OP to respond to wedding planning phone calls or email during work hours because 1) it’s much less noticeable and 2) it takes maybe 5 minutes at a time. It’s not at all the same as being out of the office for half a day meeting with a florist or going to a tasting. But neither is necessary and I agree that neither is recommended.
Newlywed
Not in law but in a demanding job with travel. I did most of my appointments on weekends or through my wedding planner (ie – she would meet with the florist and email me photos/options and I only met with the florist for one final sign-off meeting). Most vendors, once they could tell I was serious about booking with them or had already signed a contract, were fine about meeting with me on weekends when their schedules permitted (though I had a 16-month engagement, so there were lots of weekends to choose from).
Scarlett
You get a wedding planner. You tell that person “here’s what I want it to look like” & you pay for them to put it together for you. Like so much in biglaw, you outsource it.
anon in SV
Yep, outsource or weekends. Your biglaw job and biglaw salary mean you don’t get to spend an afternoon tasting cake. Life’s about tradeoffs. Massive salary –> much less personal time.
Anonymous
You outsource it or you do it on weekends. Taking time off during the weekday is inappropriate. You also can’t take lots of vacation days if you’re taking a 2 week honeymoon. Obviously you shouldn’t skip a close friends wedding, but you may have to decline some bachelor e t t e party invites or only go for the Saturday/Sunday part of it.
lawsuited
+1 Using flex-time to go to a medical appointment is one thing, but I would be very surprised if any of my colleagues left work for several hours during a work day to meet with a florist for a personal event. Florists and caterers work outside of regular business hours – meet with them then or don’t meet with them. It is possible to get married without having a multi-hour meeting with the florist or tasting with the caterer.
Cat
Yeah, sorry, agreeing with the “outsource it” advice, or find vendors that will meet with you on weekends. The eyerolls for an associate ducking out for wedding appointments on a regular basis would be immense. Can you really picture telling a partner “no I can’t jump on this right away, I’m going to the florist”?
Plus, I’d consider changing your travel plans to skip portions of the b-r3tt3 events.
Sydney Bristow
Either outsource or take a single day off and meet with all the vendors you need to meet in person. Maybe I just got lucky, but I was able to schedule cake tasting, catering tasting, and lined up all of our rentals in a single day.
Also, see if any of your vendors are willing to meet over Skype. That could save a lot of time.
Anonymous
You don’t have to meet vendors in person. I planned a wedding on the opposite coast. I went there once, a year before the wedding, and did a food tasting and a meeting with the florist, but I could have easily done the florist via Skype or email and the tasting was totally optional. It was fun, but when you work in a demanding job and are taking a lengthy vacation for your wedding, you don’t get to take random weekday afternoons off to go have fun. I did not do cake tastings or meet with any other vendors in person and it was totally fine.
I also did not take a single vacation day in the 12 months preceding my wedding, which was pretty much expected at my firm if you were taking two weeks or more off for the wedding. I had to miss several weddings I would have liked to attend, including one for a fairly good friend who got married two weeks before me on a Friday, but such is the nature of Big Law. The partners would have blown a gasket if I’d been taking lots of vacation in addition to all the time off for my own wedding. You get a free pass for your own wedding, not for your own wedding plus lots of random vacation. I would only take time off right before getting married for an illness, death or the wedding of an immediate family member (like a sister). Everything else, do it entirely over a weekend (possible for Saturday weddings in the US, even ones on the opposite coast) or don’t go.
Chicago
I’ll be in Chicago this Sun-Mon for a conference. I’ll have about three hours free on Sunday afternoon. Any suggestions on things to do? I’m staying at the Westin on Michigan Ave.
Anonymous
I would do one of the architecture walks, or boat tour, or visit the art institute.
Hazel
With 3 hours on a Sunday, I might go for a nice long walk on the Riverwalk, and then maybe lunch at Eataly — it’s a food hall with lots of dining and shopping opportunities, so just really fun to browse. Don’t forget to stop by a Garrett’s if you like popcorn!
ChiLaw
I would probably go to the beach and swim in the lake, but I guess that depends on whether swimming like that is available to you at home. Also maybe it won’t be hot enough.
The architectural boat tours did not sound fun to me, but I loved them! I was always secretly glad when a friend came to town and wanted to do it, so I could do it again. The Chicago History Museum is also fun, and there might be a walking/train tour that lines up with your travel time. Or you can just scope out the museum. It’s walking distance from Lincoln Park and the lake and a conservatory and the zoo, too.
Ellen
Yay! Open thread’s! I love open thread’s and this crossbody bag, but could I really buy something that is NOT leather? For this price, mabye, but I prefer COACH even tho I will have to pay alot more. But if you want a cheap bag, this one look’s pretty good.
As for the OP, I seriusly do NOT think the water is warm enough in Chicago to jump in the Lake. If you are aquatically inclined, go to the Shedd Aquarium which is where Dad took us. And stay at the Drake–it’s classy but not over the top. If you want to eat Steak, go to Michael Jordan’s or the Chop House downtown. If you stay downtown, you will NOT have to put up with the lowlife scum that is doeing all of the shooting of peeople down in the South Side, which is the wurst part of town.
Personaly, I am heading out with Myrna tonite to see if we can find REAL men. A guy Myrna was thinkeing of dating was actually a transvestite! She did NOT pursue her once she figured THAT out. It is very compliceated these days. I do NOT want to find a guy in the ladie’s room, as I have enough troubel with Frank. FOOEY! Anyway, have a great weekend, all! YAY!!!!
SDanon
Does anyone have suggestions for activities to do/must see things in Vegas in June? An old law school classmate is having a bachelorette party there next week. Given the extreme heat warning for Vegas, I’m assuming indoor activities/poolside will be necessary.
Polly Pepper
I just came back from a bachelorette party in LV a few weeks ago. Besides hitting the slots or card tables, I really like to walk through the casinos. Paris has an awesome indoor shopping mall, and Bellagio is really gorgeous and worth seeing. There are tons of shows that you can catch, and you can people-watch on the Strip at night, when it’s cooler. And I’ve never been, but have always wanted to catch a helicopter tour of the Grand Canyon.
SoCalAtty
I’ve posted on here a few times about my micromanaging “boss” attorney that was poisoning my otherwise awesome in-house job. Well, without giving TOO many details, after sticking things out (for 2 very long, long years), we hired a new GC and she is no longer my supervisor! I will still be working with, but not for, her. I will also be working with much more senior attorneys at my company so I will finally be getting some professional development. Very exiting.
New HR leaders have also seized control of the company, and they are going to start treating me like the exempt / salaried professional I am, rather than hourly admin. My ability to work from home / be flexible has been restored!!
So hang in there if things go south – sometimes they work out. Now I just have to stay on my toes and impress the heck out of our new GC so I can get back on the road to some promotions.
dc mom
Hi – I gained ten pounds pretty suddenly and feel so uncomfortable. I am a breastfeeding mom of a 20 month old (once a day). My supply went down pretty suddenly about a month ago and poof! i put on weight without noticing. It doesn’t sound like much, but I am short and feel it. I am looking for support and hugs. I know how to loose it – calories in, calories out. I would love to hear any fun tips that have helped you loose some weight. Youtube workouts (I don’t have a gym membership) recs? Motivational tips?
Meredith
Find little ways to sneak it workouts (aside from the pretty exhausting one of raising a kid) With bad asthma and being a bit out of shape hoofing up the stairs at work was not an option when I started prioritising weight but making an effort to walk down them got my steps up quite a bit which helped.
Divorce
Can anyone suggest a way to find an aggressive divorce lawyer? My poor sister is going through a nasty divorce and her ex is seeking to wring every dollar out of her. He has an extremely aggressive and effective lawyer (we suspect he was planning the divorce for a while and may have hidden assets as well), while my sister’s lawyer has a very friendly and collaborative style that is leading to her getting steamrolled. My sister is very unhappy and stressed as her lawyer is pushing her to agree to what she feels is a very unbalanced division of assets and alimony obligation, and to add insult to injury, she is being forced to pay for the full costs of mediation and her ex’s legal fees. She is ready to change lawyers and fight this in court, and I want to find someone who will be more aggressive in defending my sister’s interests. I am a lawyer but know next to nothing about divorce law, and this is all happening in Indiana, where I have no connections or network. Would contacting the local bar be helpful, or will it only get me names without any gauge of the lawyer’s abilities?
Shopping
Wish I could help. I’ve gotten lawyers through the bar before, and did not find them helpful in the least. I think they just give out whoever’s name is up next. Since you are a lawyer, you might be able to do better.
Is there any way you could pull up recent decisions in her area and see who the lawyers were? Would their local newspaper help?
Good luck to your sister–I’ve been there!
Vi
Can your sister activate her network? Email people asking for a referral and ask them to let her know someone who might know of a good divorce lawyer? It seems like friend of a friend who knows a good lawyers is the way to go here.
Anonymous
Are you in big law or use biglaw? People at my firm sending out emails searching for recommendations of this sort all the time on behalf of friends, family, and clients. In my experience, you always get at least a few recommendations, even for very random types of law practices in places we don’t have offices.
Vietnam
Any recommendations for tailors in Hoi An? Hoping to get a couple work dresses and blazers, maybe one fun item.
LAnon
No specific recommendation, but in general, stay away from the places with 24-hour turnaround. If they don’t insist on you coming back a couple times for fittings, it is not worth getting custom clothes made. I’m not sure how long you’re there for, but being able to work with a shop that takes 3-5 days will likely ensure a much higher quality product.
New Job
I started a new job 6 weeks ago. I am writing this in a state of despair. I had to collect unemployment for 4 months prior to starting where I am because I was let go in a very humiliating manner due to personality clashes and work environment issues (and not work product related issues) from my prior job. So I lived on very little and had already serious financial obligations before securing the new job.
The pay at the new place is a little less than I made before, but this is what the market looks like in this field where I am. The new boss said that if she is happy with my work she will raise my pay after 6 months. She already showed some appreciation and promised that with time she will allow me to handle the cases I work on on my own without her current tight supervision.
The commute is 2 hrs long in every direction. I have no life left out of the office and I cannot survive on this paycheck.
There are other issues: Two days ago she expressed political and social stances in my ears that were horrifying (discriminatory in a particularly ugly way towards a minority group). The support stuff is seriously lacking and unmotivated which undermines the pace of my work and my ability to meet deadlines (the attorney I am replacing had a heart attack so he left abruptly). I have been crying the whole weekend on and off. I am not a young kid. I am a 50+yrs old divorcee that really want to help my daughters, that had a few set backs. But I am really good at what I do.
I said already that the market is terrible and one look at my CV puts me in the pile of “overqualified” for most jobs and people that can afford to and have the connections set shop on their own.
With my financial situation and nobody to turn to for help, I cannot afford to move, and knowing myself, I will have a meltdown soon.
Any tips on how one can cope better with so much stress? Should I move on with the first opportunity that comes my way?
Polly Pepper
I am so sorry that you’re going through such a difficult time. I was laid off a few months ago, and have been job hunting. I am relatively senior, with 12 years experience, and have had a few interviews but nothing has turned up yet. Working out, yoga, walks outside, reading have all really helped me in dealing with the stress of unemployment. As far as moving forward, it sounds like your options are to (1) grit your teeth and stay at the job while looking for another one, (2) quit and set up your own shop, (3) quit and move to another city with a better job market. I realize Option 1 would be incredibly hard with your crazy boss and unhealthy work environment, and you’ll need to decide whether you can truly bear it for the short term for the sake of your financial survival. Things should get better in a few months with the pay raise and increased autonomy. Try to detach yourself as much as possible so you don’t get more upset, minimize contact with the boss, and just focus on getting your job done. It sounds like you don’t think you can afford to do either Options 2 or 3 but if you’re a lawyer, you could try to find contract work to keep you busy and generate some income until you’re back on track. And obviously you should try to reduce your expenses to the bare bones to improve your options. You can post your budget details anonymously on the forums on savingadvice.com and see if there are any spending that you can trim.
New Job
Thanks and good luck to you too. I will have to decide (before a melt down) if iI can deal with her for much longe and embrace option 1. I have 2 trials going on this month and next month and I am her second chair…
Enjoy the time now even considering the stress of the search. This is one thing I remember almost as a mantra I said to myself every morning when I did not have to go to my previous job. Your final piece of advice sounds great. I will do this now.
Scarlett
In your shoes, I would seriously consider starting your own practice. Even if you don’t have a client base to start with, network like crazy – tell everyone you know what you’re doing, pick up contract work where you can, and modify what kind of law you do to be more adaptable to a solo practice if you need to (i.e. if you do corporate contracts, figure out how to help small businesses instead, if you do employment or workers comp defense, take plaintiff/ employee cases). It will be hard, it will take a while to get on your feet, you might need a loan, but you may end up a lot happier once you aren’t dependent on someone else for a job. This is a lot harder for someone newly practicing, but since you’re 50+, I assume you’ve been at it a while and it should be easier to do. Also, your state bar might have a solos section where you can get resources on starting a practice.
ANP
In case anyone is still reading, how would you style a neon pink tweed skirt? Navy tee? It’s cream and pink, so I think a white shirt is out.
http://m.shop.nordstrom.com/s/halogen-zip-pocket-tweed-pencil-skirt/4175374?cm_mmc=email_tran-_-053016-_-order_confirm-_-proddescr1
Badlands
If you don’t want the high contrast of going with navy, you could do an orange shirt (adjacent on the color wheel). Maybe a tank top instead of a tee.
Nati
Like this idea! Saw someone wearing pink and orange last weekend and really loved it.
anony
To Anonymous who did an embryo transfer last weekend, just wanted to say that I hope all is going well! My fingers have been crossed for you!
Trish
Cross body bags do not flatter anyone. Anyone. Unless you are traipsing through the city or a theme park on vacation, OR if you have an adorable little bag that you want to wear while you are out dancing, they are more ugly than they are worth.
Wildkitten
Oh, like My Crazy Ex-Girlfriend? I shall dance through the city with my cross body then! “Why are you dancing, Wildkitten?” “Because Trish said it made my highly functional crossbody bag look flattering!” … Jitterbugs off towards the subway.
Anonymama
Really, I don’t think there are any bags that I would describe as “flattering.” Cute, yes, or functional, but not flattering or unflattering. (But doesn’t my huge tote make me look skinnier?! Just…. No.)
Also, I think it is super annoying that women are somehow expected to pick their purses, their outfits, hairstyles, and even their words based on what is most “flattering” to them. No, we do not always have to maximize our attractiveness, just because we are walking down the street.
Wildkitten
Amen, sister.