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Updated: Nov 1, 2018 250 Comments · by

Weekend Open Thread

Fashion

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Something on your mind? Chat about it here. Our weekend recommendation:  For some reason, we're digging the idea of an oversized, colorful watch — this TKO one would be perfect to wear to brunch with, perhaps, a military green shirtdress or the like. We'd wear it loose on our wrist, a bit like a bracelet. It's $125 at Endless.com. TKO ORLOGI Women's TK508-WF Milano Plastic Case and Fuchsia Rubber Strap Watch (L-2)

About Kat

Kat Griffin is the founder, publisher, and editor-in-chief of Corporette. You can read more about her here.

Comments

  1. CL

    Just to sympathize with some of the folks who mentioned bombing a final exam last weekend, I’m fairly sure that the con law exam I just took is going to tarnish my academic record (thankfully my prof. hasn’t actually failed anyone in the past 3 or 4 years so I don’t think I actually failed it). Not looking forward to getting THAT grade back…. How do you generally explain a crappy grade to a potential employer?

    • AIMS

      Its difficult because you don’t want to sound like someone who makes excuses. I think depending on the circumstances, your options may vary.
      I had 1 relatively bad semester where my mind was just not in the whole exam thing, and I explained it as saying that I was working as an RA to 2 different profs, took on too many extracurriculars and didn’t prioritize my work properly, putting myself last in all of those tasks, and that since then I figured out a better way to juggle my time, etc. I also made sure to have a really great semester after the bad one to be able to point to that as an example of how I have learned from my mistakes. Also, for my worst class, I took an advanced version of that class next semester & got an A+.
      I think bad grades during 1st year are easier to explain (not sure if you’re at a school that does con law 1st year or 2nd) — you can always blame it on adjusting to law school, etc. Of course, 1st year grades matter more sometimes so that doesn’t always help.
      Just know that it’s not the end of the world. I had a friend who got a D+ in crim law & her life’s goal was to be a prosecutor — she just made sure to take lots of other crim classes & do well, so she could show that it was not an indication of her abilities in that area. She is prosecutor now.
      I’m sure you will be ok. Just try to spin it as teaching you some sort of lesson (and acually try to take something away from every experience — it will always help!), you’ll do great. Good luck!

    • anon-ny

      I had one particularly ugly grade in law school (property – blech!) and I tried the same approach in two interviews and had remarkably different responses – when asked I tried to laugh it off as a fluke because based on all of my other grades it was definitely a fluke. I had no excuses and I didn’t feel I had frozen up or anything but I never complained about the grade (which at my school was an irritatingly common practice). In one interview the interviewer laughed it off with me as an anomaly and I got a call back. In the second interview (with two fairly uptight interviewers) they asked me at the end of a pretty good on campus interview very sternly and when I was honest and upfront they just thanked me for coming in and I never heard from them again. What did they want me to say? I think anything short of a dead parent would not have been sufficient for them.
      As an interviewer, unless the bulk of your grades are low I wouldn’t even ask and I don’t think it is necessary to raise it unless asked about it. And despite my anecdote above, I think straight forward (with some humor) is always the best approach as opposed to making excuses. And if there is a serious excuse (family ailment, death, etc.) be upfront about it and hold it together. I once had an interviewee break down in my office when explaining her low grades were due to a serious illness and a death in her family. She deserved a break and some sympathy but should have anticipated the grades question would come up and have a collected answer prepared. Crying in an interview is obviously not professional.

    • legalchef

      if it’s an anomaly they often won’t even ask – it’s just assumed that it was a bad day

      if they do ask, whatever you do, don’t say that the professor was bad – you never know who they know. you can usually just explain it by saying that it was just a bad test day for you. everyone has those.

      • guest

        I had one anomalous very low and embarrassing grade in law school. I have dreaded sending out my transcript because of it and can’t wait for the day when I’m advanced enough in my career that transcript won’t be requested anymore. But I have had numerous interviews and job offers at great firms, and no one has ever mentioned the grade. It sticks out like a sore thumb for a reason, so people aren’t that concerned. I have thought about what I would do if asked, and decided that I would be honest. (I emailed the professor when I got the test back for feedback on why I had done poorly, so I know the answer.)

    • B

      Don’t worry about it. The good employers will look beyond grades. I got mediocre grades from a tier 3 school. I’m now in biglaw loving my litigation job. Even with C’s on my record, my firm hired me because saw something else; a passion for what I love. While I didn’t win a summer associate position, when a junior associate position opened up, they hired me right out of law school. Great company, great job. Don’t ever give up.

    • JAS

      I had an employer ask me about one bad grade that I got. It was the last exam my first semester of law school. I told the truth, which was that I didn’t pace myself or budget my studying time properly (spent 80% of reading week on property because I was TERRIFIED of that class) and that by the time the last exam rolled around I was exhausted. (I also had a lot of other things going on during exam week, including a different job interview). I aced my property exam though! In fact, as soon as I said, “Well, civ pro was the last exam of my first semester…” the interviewer started nodding and saying “Ohhh…”

      I got an offer for the job (it was for a summer with a US Atty). I think the really key thing is that I emphasized “I learned my lesson, and as you’ll see I did much better the following semester.” Just be sure you can identify what went wrong and what you learned from it.

    • Eponine

      I don’t recall ever having asked about a specific grade. I usually only pay attention to overall GPA and/or class rank. The only exception would be if the low grade was for a class directly related to your desired practice area – i.e. a bad Evidence grade and you’re applying for a job where you’re going to be in court from day one. In that case, if you could demonstrate your knowledge of the subject matter otherwise (“I was having a bad day when I took the exam. But actually I do understand the rules of evidence quite well, and I have to apply them regularly in my internship with the DA’s office where I assist with trials.”) I wouldn’t be that concerned about it.

      If someone does ask, just tell the truth and don’t dwell on it. The worst possible thing you can do is talk and talk about how you messed up when a ten-word explanation would suffice. If the interviewer harps on it, they’re just looking for any excuse to ding you and you should just dust yourself off and move on.

  2. Madison

    What kind of shoes are appropriate and cute for a middle-age woman to wear on the weekend on hot summer days to art festivals, fairs, attractions, or any place where there will be a lot of walking and swollen feet? Sketchers are comfortable but are they frumpy? Sandals can make my feet blister; flip flops seem sloppy and they don’t provide good support. Birkenstocks seem too young. Ditto Converse although I am tempted to buy some anyway. I also have a hard time deciding what to wear to sporting events such as hockey. Any recommendation for a sneaker? Help!

    • Anon

      Whatever cute, flat shoes are most comfortable to you – Sketchers, ballet flats, other sneakers (Converse!), etc. I don’t think Sketchers are frumpy at all. I also think flat shoes are safest in crowded situations – if you are jostled, you’ll be less likely to lose your balance, and god forbid there is some sort of tragic occurrence and you need to run away, fast, you’ll be in good shape.

      For sporting events I’m a fan of a cute but casual shirt, shorts/pants, and sneakers. It’s just one girl’s opinion but I feel like the women I see at sporting events in sundresses and 4 inch wedges look really overdressed for the occasion…

    • AIMS

      If birkenstocks seem too young (and I am not sure they are, but ok), try Merrill. They’re come in some cute styles & are very comfy (you can also look into Mephisto but those are a bit frumpy sometimes).

      For sneakers, I think you have a lot of options, too, but look into Simples. They’re very cute & appropriate for all ages.

      There are a lot of cute other options from a website called AcaciaCatalog.

      • Shayna

        I love Mephisto – I have a red pair of sneaker-shoes that I wore through Paris and London a few years ago and still adore for city treks in the summer.

    • Res Ipsa

      personally, I love fisherman sandals or huaraches from a good comfort/support brand for wearing everywhere all summer long. I think they are a classic look.

    • Cat

      For the summer wandering, have you tried any of the “comfort” brands of sandals? I just took a peek at Aerosoles (I liked styles Savanna – a single wide strap rather than a flip flop – and Savvy)

      If Clark’s style matches up with yours, they have a huge array of sandals too.

      Sporting events: I always wear sneakers (gray New Balances or Pumas for me) because I hate that sticky floor feeling with bare feet anywhere near it.

    • s in Chicago

      When I know it is casual and a lot of walking (like on vacations and such) , I live in these types of shoes from Clarks

      http://www.zappos.com/clarks-wavecruise-stone-nubuck

      http://www.zappos.com/privo-skite-black-leather-black-mesh?zlfid=111

      They have a ton of different styles in different colors and materials. I’ve found the footbed has good arch support.

      I blame a long day of walking in flats for painful plantar fasciitis a couple of years ago. If you are going to be on your feet all day, then you definitely should shoot for something that will give you more sneaker-like support than what most ballet flats can provide.

      Another good one to search out are Keens. Some of their sneaker/hiking hybrids hold up really well under lots of walking while still looking more stylish than a typical walking/running shoe.

      • KM

        For a dressier option have you thought of Jack Rogers sandals? They are a little uncomfortable at first, but once you break them in they are (at least to me) super comfortable.

    • jojo

      El Naturalistas are wonderful. Pricey, hard to find, but wonderful.

      Try elnaturalista.com and backcountry.com.

    • Elle

      I have a pair of Teva wedges and also another pair of their leather sandals without a heel but similar in style. I think they’re incredibly comfortable and can even wear the wedge style to outdoor festivals where I’m on my feet all day. I think the Tevas only work, though, if you have a particular foot shape. My sister has the same shoes and they hurt her feet b/c the arch support is in the wrong spot for her foot. They fit me perfectly, however.

      See, e g. http://www.teva.com/ProductDetails.aspx?g=w&categoryID=425&productID=4253&model=Ventura+Cork+2+Wedge+Rialto

      • Delta Sierra

        I have some Teva flats that are similar to Elle’s wedges. Thin black leather straps, very simple and comfortable, far less clompy than their usual. The hubs wears their sandals, once a strap broke after a couple of months, we sent them back, they sent a brand new pair very quickly, no aggro.

    • Amy

      I love merrills. They have reall cute slip on/zip up. Also love tory burch flats for a more formal occasion or J Crew ballet slippers!

    • MelD

      Add another vote for Merrill flats. I have one pair of flats that are comfortable along with another leather sneaker style. I also have a pair of Puma flats I adore that I can throw in the washing machine.

      • K

        My Merrells are my daily commuting shoes and they’ve been worth every penny – nicer-looking than sneakers with my suit but just as comfy.

    • C

      Keene sandals (or mary janes) or Merrill mocs are as comfortable as sneakers… they protect your feet and are really well designed.

    • Lobbyist

      I’m 41 and I have some Cole Haan slip on sneakers that are comfortable. Also I have a pair of sort of stylish sneakers the brand is Michelle K. I also have some comfortable patent leather sandals that are okay if I don’t have to walk too much. Otherwise flats.

    • Eponine

      I wear Dansko sandals. I need good arch support and Dansko has it. I also love my Tevas but they are even more casual than Danskos.

    • T

      I have had good luck with cute New Balance tennis shoes. I have found several pairs in different colors (dark green, chocolate brown, blue) at Khols or Rack Room Shoes. They feel great and only cost $40-$60 a pair. Plus they are lighter than a traditional tennis shoe.

    • C

      Another middle-age woman here. Check out Naot sandals – look at them at zappos.com; they are super-comfy and attractive.

    • KZ

      I once wore a pair of born sandals all over italy for two weeks and they were fabulous. This was about a decade ago–my recent pair of borns is still comfortable in terms of fit and support, though it has straps that are rubbing between my toes, so I think the trick is to be very careful where straps are placed.

    • Denise

      I’m 49 and I love my bright yellow Converse sneakers. I get compliments on them all the time, and they don’t feel too young at all. Then again, I think of Birkenstocks as old-hippies’ shoes.

  3. 2lExtern

    Does anyone know if summer judicial externs in fed court wear suits every day? Trying to figure out what I will need to buy, wardrobe-wise, before starting my externship in a couple of weeks… I’m in Chicago if it helps. Any advice would be appreciated!

    • JCC

      I was a federal judicial intern and a federal law clerk after law school and we wore suits every day. I would definitely check with the law clerks and the judge though — some chambers are way more casual than the ones I where I worked. Good luck — you’ll have a great experience!

    • Maureen

      I externed this semester in the NDIL and wore a suit, or jacket/pants, every day I went to court call. I got away with one black suit, one gray suit, several pairs of black pants, a red and black blazer, and a black-and-white blazer, but I only had court call twice a week.

      • JAS

        I clerked for a Federal Magistrate for the summer and the other interns (for the district judges and other magistrates) were pretty casual – cutesy little sundresses with cardigans and sandals. This includes the graduate clerks. Most guys wore a button down and khakis, no tie or jacket. Personally, I felt much more comfortable in the courtroom wearing a suit as the attorneys were. And you never know when you might get asked to observe court.

        Also, depending on the courthouse and your judge, you might be allowed to go observe whenever you want as long as your work is getting done. that’s how it was for me, and I recommend it. I learned A LOT that way and the other judges were often very friendly and would invite me and other interns into chambers to observe meetings or to chat with them during recess).

    • A Different Liz

      I’m clerking for a federal judge, and we expect our externs to wear business professional, which basically means a suit. Skirt suits are NOT required for women in our chambers or courtroom. I occasionally wear dress pants with a coordinating jacket, for example, today I wore brown pants, a cream shell, and a green/brown tweed-type jacket (it was in the 40s today). You can call chambers and ask.

      • KZ

        it was in the 40s in MAY?! As in, didn’t get warmer throughout the day? or just early in the morning? Where do you live so I can be sure never to move there. I thought the fact that it was 65 today in New York was annoying. I called my mother in Georgia and it was 90. I think 40s this late in the year would literally kill me.

    • Eponine

      Years ago when I was an extern, even in chambers we wore skirt suits. When I clerked, we were business casual on non-court days. I’d advise to wear a skirt suit on the first day, with hose. Better to be overdressed than under. I was able to get through the summer with two or three suits, no problem, so you shouldn’t need to invest a lot of money. Lower-end suits from JC Penney are fine, and you can also check out sales at Macy’s or off-price stores like Nordstrom Rack.

    • MelD

      When I was an extern, we did not have to wear suits on non-court days. My judge typically dressed in preppy business casual outfits and the career clerks were not very formal either. I usually brought a jacket if I thought I might want to observe something, but some weeks were completely dead in my courthouse.

  4. Question about Boden

    I was going to order a dress from Boden last night online. I had it in my cart, but was still looking around the site and hadn’t bought it yet. Suddenly it disappeared, with a note that it was no longer available. I’ve been checking in on the site every once in a while since then, and the status of what is available is changing constantly. Anyone had experience with this? Do I need to check in every day in the hopes that my size will become available again?

    • legalchef

      Have you ever ordered from them before? I was looking at the site and they have a ton of cute things, but I have no idea about the quality, etc.

      • E

        I have ordered several things from Boden and have been pleased at their quality. I think things generally look like you expect, and are higher quality that Banana for example.

        They used to have British sizing, which I had gotten the hang of; however they’ve switched by to US (vanity) sizing, and I’m still working on it. But I think the measurements they list on their website are pretty accurate, so you can always get the tape measure out.

    • legalchef

      oh – and do you (or anyone else) have any idea how they are in terms of sizing?

    • eem

      Why not just call and ask them about it?

      I have ordered from them before and have been very pleased with the quality. Only drawback is that it sometimes takes a while for things to arrive. Also, I have everything sent to my office, because it requires a signature for customs.

      • anon - chi

        Are you in the US? I’ve never had to sign for Boden deliveries before.

        As for sizing, be careful if you have a larger cup size – some of the dresses and tops seem to be built for a B cup or smaller.

        • eem

          Yes, I am un the US. Maybe it is just some weird thing with my post office? The first time I ordered and had it shipped to my house, they left it, but after that, they just left a notice and I had to go to the post office and sign for it.

          • C

            I think that some of their shipments come directly from England; some (esp. returns) from a warehouse in Pittsburgh.

      • michelle

        I ordered a few jackets from Boden and was happy with them – they did take a while to come and did come from overseas, not sure if that would have complicated returns but I kept them so I couldn’t tell you. I ordered my regular size and found them to be a bit big but not so much that I didn’t like them. Really cute use of lining fabrics for a nice cheerful note that isn’t obvious when wearing.

    • S

      Sorry if this is a repeat, I seem to have lost my previos post.

      They are generally very good about listing backorder wait times. If the item is listed as “out of stock” it may come back in at some point, but in my experience it won’t change daily. I’d check once a week or so. I have had the experience that they will restock really popular items. Quality is good (for both adults and kids).

      Also, I’ve never had to sign for a package. The postman just leaves it at the door.

      • Amy

        I’ve had to sign for Boden packages. LOVE their clothes. A bit expensive but the quality lasts for seasons and I get so many compliments on all of my Boden idems. I love the fun skirt and the jersey wrap dress this season. I wear nearly every weekend and sometimes to work on casual Fridays. I find that, unlike banana, j crew or ann taylor clothes, when I wear boden I am definitely unique!

  5. Res Ipsa

    I do love that watch, but I’d be unintentionally banging the watch face against every available surface if I didn’t wear it tight to my wrist. Is wearing it loose like a bracelet a new trend I wasn’t aware of?

    • AIMS

      My watch is somewhat loose. Not quite like a bracelet. I think it should never be too loose but otherwise it depends on the strap — tight for plastic/leather & looser for metal.

    • anon-ny

      I don’t know about trends but I have always preferred larger watches that are more loose fitting on my wrist. On occasion I’ve snagged or banged it on something but very rarely (I wear a watch every day). I think like anything you just get used to it.

    • Shayna

      It may be fashionable, but I would do what I do with bracelets – take it off to type and forget to put it back on.

    • KZ

      the watch i always wear is loose not by choice, but because I have a tiny, tiny wrist and can’t find nice watches that fit (even once they remove the extra links). It kind of drives me insane, so even if it was the style, I don’t think I’d wear it loose if I had the option.

    • Louise

      Funny this should come up today. I had decided to sell one of my watches because it is a loose, bracelet style and that dangling drives me nuts. However, I really like the watch and have decided to take it to a jeweler to see if they can just shorten the band. (The band is sterling silver links in the shape of leaves.)

      Trend or not, I just can’t do the loose watch thang.

  6. MJ

    My pale white legs with blue highlights mean that I have to do something with them if I want to wear skirts once the season has passed for wearing tights. I’m in NYC so nude hose are out of the question. What leg tanning or other products have you found that work the best? I saw an ad recently for some l’Oreal product that they said washed off – has anyone tried it, and if so what happens when it rains, and does it rub off on your clothes? Any other recommendations?

    • Cat

      I like Jergen’s tanning moisturizer — I do let it dry almost fully before dressing (not long at all – maybe 2 minutes). My skin is not quite as pale as yours sounds but the color is very nice and not orange-y.

      It stays put perfectly and definitely has no issues with rain — in fact, if I don’t actively rub it off with a washcloth in the shower the next day, it leaves light tan streaks (which come right out in the wash) on the towel!

        • MelD

          I think there is a smell distinctive to these kinds of tanning moisturizers. I think I smelled all the varieties in one beauty department and Dove was the only one without it. I loved that Dove lotion, but it’s been discontinued. Now I use the Jergens but find the smell is rather offputting.

          • a.

            dove was my fav too. i was sad when it was discontinued. dont’ like the jergens nearly as much. but i think it works okay.

    • MPC

      I use the Jergens “natural glow” moisturizing lotion that gradually darkens the legs during the summer months in place of regular lotion. It darkens my legs just enough without looking orange, and since it’s gradual I don’t go from paper-white to tan in a day.

      On top of that I use SPF 50 sunblock to protect myself from sun damage!

    • CFM

      I’ve tried the wash off kind before, I liked it because I could see it immediately, instead of wait 4 hours and hope for the best, but your done for if it rains or you sweat. I like neutrogena gradual tanning. Also for something like an event, I love Mystic tan.

      (My skin sounds exactly like yours with the blue tinge)

      • guest

        I’m translucent … and tried many years unsuccessfully to find a solution. Finally, at a friend’s recommendation, I tried Sally Hansen Airbrush legs and it was wonderful. You have to be careful, patient, and slow when applying it, but it was less orange than anything else, and you could see how dark it was going to be immediately. My sister uses it religiously now, too.

        Now, that being said, I no longer use anything. I decided to just get comfortable with my own skin. In a perfect world, I would ask you to embrace your paleness, too. :)

        • jojo

          me too!

          I put on a pair of “nude” [I know that’s a loaded word and a PhD thesis waiting to be written] hose yesterday and compared to my skin, they were brown.

          I refuse to feel self-conscious about my so-pale-it’s-blue skin.

        • Louise

          Another member of the Pale and Proud club. Your reward for going without a tan in your twenties is to get compliments on having lovely skin in your forties!

          • Shayna

            That’s what I keep hoping for as a so-pale-I-look-almost-dead-but-not-in-a-sexy-True-Blood-vampire-way girl in her 20s!

        • K

          That’s what I do too. I figure if someone gets blinded by my legs it’s their problem – this is the color I was born with and I’m not changing it for anyone else.

        • Another K

          I have to second the Airbrush Legs. I am also very pale and my legs wouldn’t tan even if I tried, which I don’t. I only use it for special events when I’m wearing a cocktail dress and strappy shoes and I know most people won’t wear hose, but it works great. It’s jsut too much effort for me to use every day. For everyday, I use Jergens Natural Glow to take the blinding edge off and agree that beyond that, people can just deal with my paleness!

        • Lizbet

          I suggest moving to Seattle! There are lots of us pasty people here and in the land of Birkenstocks-and-Polarfleece, it’s just not a big deal. :) (Now people wearing jeans to the opera and ballet, well that’s a bit less festive…)

    • T

      I’ve used the L’Oreal Sublime Bronze before and it gives a nice even tan that lasts a few days. It has a strong smell while the “tanning” process is going on (so I would do it on the weekend), but after that its fine. You can build a tan applying it every few days.

      • Kat

        I’d heard there was new stuff out this year — instead of “self tanner” it”s basically body bronzer. meaning it’ll wash off after one wearing, and maybe don’t wear it too close to clothes that you don’t want to get dirty — but it seemed like the perfect option for me, since i could never stand the smell of the self-tanner, and never had the foresight to put it on far enough in advance. i bought some at the drugstore but haven’t tried it yet — will report back when i do.

        • CMF

          Itll also wash off in the rain! One summer I was going from work to lsat class and it was raining, I looked like I had a disease when I got to class haha

    • 3L

      I’ve been living in NYC for 20 years and I wear nude hose. I do not understand this (mis?)conception of not wearing them. Can someone please finally put this to rest and explain it to me? I feel like I’m not catching on to my potential faux pas. Who wants to wear black tights all the time?

      • JAS

        I think some people see hose (as opposed to tights) as stuffy or conservative or uptight rather than young/hip/edgy…. On the conservative hip spectrum, I personally think something a little closer to the conservative side tends to look more classic and polished and therefore more professional.

        FWIW, I am 26 and worked as a paralegal for a few years before going to law school (where I am now). I have a sister who is 43, has a master’s in government admin and does campaign and fundraising work. She looked HORRIFIED once when I mentioned hose as a solution when she complained about the paleness of her legs. She is someone who is very concerned about looking young, hip, on-trend and stylish (her words!). I strive for classic, myself.

        Maybe people think NYC demands something more towards my sister’s end of the spectrum. I think you just have to “believe in” what you are wearing, to some extent regardless of what others around you are wearing.

      • C

        Nude hose are “Old Lady” or “OL” in the parlance of Charla Krupp, author of How Not To Look Old.

        Here is an interview with her:

        http://www.time.com/time/arts/article/0,8599,1699744-2,00.html

        “What about hose?

        Pantyhose are the devil! Nude hose is something that is very old-ladyish, because it bags up by your ankles. There are so many cooler things to wear, like dark, opaque stocking in the wintertime, or fishnet hose.”

      • Eponine

        I assumed that the original poster didn’t want to wear them b/c it is hot in NYC in the summer.

        Assuming by “nude” hose you mean hose that matches your skin tone, there’s nothing wrong with wearing them. It’s a faux pas to wear “nude” hose too dark for one’s skin tone.

        • LexCaritas

          London perspective: ‘nude’/sheer hose totally acceptable and not ‘old lady’. Plus probably in may offices bare legs could cause a raised eyebrow here. I wear sheer stockings to match my skin tone with lovely lace tops. This is not overhot in the summer, not bare legs in the office and I definitely don’t feel ‘old lady’!

        • MJ

          Thanks, ladies, for all your suggestions. I’m a little ashamed to admit it’s the “old lady” issue, rather than the weather, that stops me from wearing nude hose–plus, contrary to Kat’s advice, I wear peep-toe shoes to work. I’d do the Seattle look if my legs weren’t so blotchy, but I’m too self-conscious to try. Kat, please let me know if you do try the wash-off stuff.

          • Eponine

            I think you just need to buy better hose if you think it makes you look like an old lady. Sheer hose makes my legs look amazing, much better than without. I like Hue no-waistband in the natural shade, which is perfect for my pasty legs.

            I wouldn’t wear hose with peep toes, though. You could try footless hose that comes halfway over your foot, although that might show on the top of your foot.

      • SUCL 3L

        I think is a very regional issue. I live in Florida. Frankly, it’s just to damn hot and humid in the summer to want to wear any sort of additional layer (no matter how sheer).

        • AnneCatherine

          I get being too hot, but, if you get the right color (and size), I don’t get the OL/old lady thing. Black pantyhose (not tights, but pantyhose) are what look dated to me, as well as navy, etc. “Nude”–meaning, get the color that is sheer on you or closest to your skin tone or even basically clear– DOES NOT look old lady, IMO. Also, just don’t wear ones that bag on your ankles. That probably means they are cheap and/or too big if they do that. Honestly, I wear pantyhose to trial or appellate oral arguments, though not everyday, but I would NEVER think of going to trial or O.A. without them and I don’t even think they look bad. In fact they make my legs look better than they normally do (I have spider veins (not varicose, but those little busted blood vessels that look blue/purple)) and when I am cold I turn purples, so pantyhose make my legs look better. And, honestly, nowadays they are not uncomfortable. I don’t get the hatred. No one is recommending tan/orange, baggy pantyhose. But a high denier or sheer hose in a clear/sheer color–how does that look old lady? And I’m sorry, I’m not overly concerned with looking young or cool when I’m in court, anyway. This Charla Krupp can go to heck. I mean, whatever, I’m sure her advice is good as far as it goes, but when fishnets are invoked, then come on, that is how I know her advice has little to do with dressing in a polished manner, and has more to do with looking “hawt.”

          • MelD

            Trust me, when it’s 85+ degrees out an 90% humidity, all pantyhose are miserably uncomfortable. Honestly when I’m wearing them, I feel like I’ve just escaped from some sort of asylum because it just seems insane to be wearing them at that temperature.

        • S in Chicago

          I swear by the tan towel brand they sell at Ulta. It dries quickly and is very easy to apply without worry of streaks. I’m happy with my natural coloring. But I often get nicks from shaving and have some small veins now that I’m getting older. A little bit of color helps even all of that out. One thing I absolutely swear by for legs—it’s not a self-tanner but really helps the appearance–is Palmers cocoa butter body gloss. It’s lotion that has some slight shine to it (not glittery though, very subtle). LOVE it.

  7. Ugh

    I got laid off yesterday. I’m actually totally fine with it, as I was hoping to find a way out soon anyway. The really shady thing is that, of my class of four (first year) attorneys, only the two women were laid off. The two men, who do not have any performance advantages that I can see, are safe.

    Smells a little funny to me, and it makes what should be a fairly happy situation (for me) just awkward and annoying.

    • Anon

      I’m sorry for your situation, glad that you were already looking for a way out.

      If there were 4 of you – 2 men and 2 women – and the two to be laid off were the women, I wouldn’t jump to conclusions. My answer would definitely change if there were 10 men and 2 women and the women were the ones to go…

  8. Sadness

    Hello Lady Lawyers! OK I just found out that I failed the bar exam. I didn’t NEED to take it, as I am long-term in-house counsel (out of law school a long time!) and already admitted in 3 other jurisdictions. I took it as a backup plan because my employer in Big Oil had announced layoffs last fall and I thought I could open my own office and do some consulting if I lost my job. Once I found out I was safe (and got a promotion!) I really had a hard time studying for it…
    Now I really DON’T want to take it again, but my pride is definitely hurt. Anyone fail a bar they didn’t need to take and how long til you get over it? Or did you just suck it up and take it again?

    • Clerky

      Hi there, I’m so sorry to hear that. Just remember that you’re not alone and LOTS and lots of people fair the bar exam every year.

      Sounds like you don’t plan on taking it again, but if you do — I had several classmates who failed the first time around and the second time they all passed. Of course, their pride was hurt, but they all buckled down, consistently studied every day and eventually got through it. You can too.

      • Sadness

        Oh it was the full bar- this state doesn’t have a lawyers’ bar exam…
        I actually love my job but don’t care that much for the area, I think taking the bar made me feel like I was doing something constructive instead of waiting for the axe. Several colleagues who did end up being let go basically waited for a nice package to ease them out the door and were happy with that. Although I feel ancient, I am still too young to do that (and probably would NOT have gotten any kind of package). Thanks for the good words, I read this board occasionally and find the comments to be really useful and constructive in general. Seems like there is a critical mass of really high achieving ladies and it is a VERY positive thing!

        • divaliscious11

          Unless you absolutely need it to get a job, why put yourself through the stress? Just keep your other admissions active and move on….

    • Eponine

      I have a few friends who’ve been in this situation. Most didn’t put forth the effort to take it again. I probably wouldn’t. Nothing to feel bad about – you didn’t try hard, so your pride shouldn’t suffer at all.

  9. Shampoo

    Any ideas on a shampoo that is good for color treated hair> My hair is very fine and somewhat thin, so I’m looking for a shampoo that isn’t overly heavy. Any suggestions?

    • afl73

      Love the Redken Color Extend line although my hair is thick, but I’ve never thought it had the potential to weigh fine hair down.

    • bluebook

      I’ve been using Redken’s shampoo and conditioner for color-treated hair for about 4 months. They come in a red bottle. So far very happy with them. I have thick hair though so I don’t know if you’d have the same experience, but I don’t feel like it’s heavy at all. The conditioner also leaves my hair super soft!

      • Shayna

        When I was coloring my hair (no longer coloring) a few years ago this is what I used and it didn’t weigh down my fairly fine and prone to oily hair.

    • jojo

      Bumble & Bumble color support shampoo and conditioner are amazing. I have very fine hair (which I don’t color) and these products keep it healthy and soft.

    • SSC

      My hair is also fine, thin, and easily weighed down — I’ve had good luck with the L’Oreal EverPure Volume shampoo and conditioner.

    • (almost) 3L

      I love John Masters Organics – I also have fine, color-treated hair. The John Masters Evening Primrose has my hair polished, shiny and it has a nice light scent. Works beautifully.

    • Anonymous

      I have fine hair but a lot of it, so I don’t really experience the flat hair problem. However, I do dye it blonde and love the brand Halo. I rotate which one I buy (I think right now I have the “nourishing” one). A friend of mine had started using it in the months leading up to her wedding on the suggestion of her hairdresser. Her hair started to look so good that I finally asked what she had been doing different and she recommended Halo. It’s a little expensive (I pay about $16 a bottle) but it has been worth every penny.

      • 3L

        I like Pantene for color-treated hair, or John Frieda (the conspicuous blonde, brunette or red hair bottles, depending on your haircolor).

    • T

      I have fine color treated hair and the only thing I have found that works for me is Pureology’s volumizing shampoo (I have a friend who is a hairstylist that swears by their line). It’s expensive, but totally worth it.

    • petitecocotte26

      I have very fine single-process treated hair. I have used Head and Shoulders Extra Volume shampoo for a couple years. I started using it to deal with a minor dry scalp issue that has resolved itself, but keep using it because it gives me a lot of natural-looking volume and doesn’t fade my all-over color. I used to use an expensive salon-brand volumizer, but this shampoo gives me a great head start on creating extra body that I no longer need the expensive volumizer and get away with usually just a dollop of Pantene volume mousse. I save so much money this way.

  10. Legally Brunette

    I am married and don’t have kids, but I love children and would like to have them within the next few years. I am also very social and like to go out with friends on a regular basis. In the US, these two activities (having kids and being social) appear mutually exclusive. All of my friends who have kids seem to have literally fallen off the face of the earth — I simply never, ever see them anymore. It’s sad.

    When I have gone abroad, mostly to Asia and the Middle East, I see that so many families include children as part of their social gatherings — kids are with their parents at restaurants, museums, at dinner parties at home, or even at night clubs (which admittedly, was strange). Here in the US, it seems like kids are so isolated from most adult social activities. Now, I’m not suggesting that kids accompany their parents to a five star restaurant, but I would love to know that I could bring my kids to at least some events and not feel awkward about it (assuming they are well behaved, of course).

    Anyone have any insights about maintaining a social life while having kids or why the cultural norm in the US is so different than most places? I’m very curious to hear thoughts (and hope this doesn’t devolve into another feud, a la the breastfeeding debate last week!). :) :) Thanks ladies.

    • anon

      There are certainly US social norms against having your kids out late — and most social events are later than US kids are up. If you are out of the house with toddlers after 8, you will certainly get looks, if not comments. But of course, amongst your friends, you may do as you wish, and perhaps you don’t care if people look at you funny (and if they aren’t looking at funny you for that, it will be because your child is dressed inappropriately, or eating the wrong food, etc. — get used to it). I will add something from my own experience, though — don’t assume that people don’t take little kids out because of social disapproval. I have lived in Europe, and thought I would be a hip European mom out with my kids in (smoke-free) bars at night. But now that I’ve had kids, I’ve found that I really enjoy just being home with my family, far more than I thought I would. And also that I’m really tired, and my husband and I want to go to bed at a reasonable hour. YMMV, of course, but people may not so much fall off the face of the earth as find their own little world to be more satisfying.

      • Anonymous

        I will second this. Its not that we are less social, in my case its that we tend socialize with other people with kids, I dont stick around for the happy hour at work, because I havent seen my kids since the wee hours of the morning. On weekends, a quiet evening at home with friends with kids and lots of wine is more relaxing than juggling going out – and less expensive. I have single/childless friends I am still close with, but our schedules just dont match as frequently as they used to, but its not because we arent interested in or socializing, its just different.

        And I also agree that you may think having them tag along will be great, we did! But, your approach might be drastically different once you have them.

      • Shayna

        It’s funny – as a single woman I do find that a lot of my friends have dropped off the face of the earth once they have children – just because they are on a totally different schedule, and their lives and social circles start to form around their children, and the parents of their children’s friends.

        That said I do treasure the time I get to spend with my friends’ children ( the few who have stayed in touch!), because they bring their children to dinner/lunch at appropriate times/locations, don’t keep them out past the time when they get cranky because they want to go to bed, don’t show up with them unannounced to parties, etc… there’s a time and place for everything, and some activities are kid friendly and others are not – knowing the difference is important for everyone. Incidentally (and I hope this does not sound sanctimonious) the friends I have, have taught their children the behavior appropriate for visiting someone else’s home, and have never criticized my home for being not child friendly enough, or let them destroy any part of my home (I have a friend whose visiting friend’s child broke apart the DVD player, and the friend shrugged that the child was just curious).

    • A.

      This is a great question.

      I think it is very dependent on the type of parents. We take our son everywhere with us (with a few exceptions, like fine-dining restaurants or kid-inappropriate movies, which we reserve for date nights). But he is an only child, so we’re not wrangling two or more, which does seem to make a difference. I think a lot of parents get very anxious about taking their children out as babies (because they don’t want people to get “upset” if the babies cry) and then by the time the kids are not babies, they haven’t necessarily learned how to behave in adult situations, and then it’s not too fun for kid or parent to be in those environments. We started working on table manners, appropriate behavior in public, etc. when my son was 6 months old, and now we constantly get complimented about how well-behaved he is. Not bragging on my parenting because my son is VERY high-energy and it has been a lot of repetitive training to teach him good behavior. I think it’s a case of saying something over and over to the point where you finally just get it ingrained :)

      I am sorry your friends with kids haven’t stayed in touch. Most of my friends pre-kid, I am still friends with, even if they don’t have children themselves. My best friend is child-free but we have her over for family holidays, my son’s birthday, etc. and she and her husband always seem really glad to be invited. I think a part of the disconnect between people with kids and without is there has been so much put out there by people who are vehemently anti-child that sometimes, parents assume people without kids just don’t want to be present at anything where the kids are involved. However, our experience with our child-free friends is that they want to be involved in our son’s life and appreciate being invited to things. If you feel that way, it’s worth communicating to your friends. And let them know, if you are busy or travel a lot and can’t make it to everything, that if you don’t say yes a few times, to keep inviting. I think there’s a tendency to write someone off after a few unfulfilled invitations.

      I have yet to see a casual situation where a well-behaved child is not welcome. When we are invited to parties or events, I usually ask when I RSVP if kids are welcome and the answer is almost never no. My caveat here is that we live in the Southwest. Most events are casual and there are strong beliefs about the importance of family, kids are very rarely excluded from anything. I have even been at fairly formal business events where children were present, and the only time I ever thought crosswise about it was if the children didn’t behave. I think if you have a good mindset about it and teach good manners, you won’t have a problem taking your child (children) anywhere.

      • Lucy

        I think you’re right about how the disconnect sometimes happens — if you don’t start early & make a conscious effort, it becomes more difficult to do later.
        But I am not sure that it’s the case that people are anti-children. I think that parents in the States frequently have more “needs” for their kids than their foreign counterparts — I have had friends come over with children who essentially took issue with everything in my apartment b/c my furniture has sharp corners (it’s regular furniture), or there is a balcony, and I have a cat, etc. I have also other friends who took a more relaxed attitude visit with kids, and stay for a few days, and none of those things were an issue. I am not saying that it’s not important to be careful w/your kids, but I think we have a culture that worries way too much about the danger of common, everyday things & always imagines the worst case scenario will occur. If you take your kids out regularly & treat that as normal, it will be normal! Sure it’s work, but the benefits to those connections are — in my opinion — worth it :)

        • A.

          Wow – I am sorry your friend acted that way. I could not agree with you more – some parents get totally paranoid about things that are absolutely not that big of a deal (“sharp corners” being one of them – hello, for generations children have been growing up around “sharp corners,” and somehow humanity has managed to perpetuate itself!). We know parents that won’t take their kids to the park because they are worried about “molesters” and “falls” and “germs” and in the meantime, their kids are overweight and Vitamin D-deficient because they never play outside. Not all parents are like that. My $.02 is that I am seeing a swing back from the hyper-vigilant, risk-averse parenting that has been popular and back towards a more commonsense approach. It’s not that I am going to send my kid out unsupervised (the way I was raised – unfortunately, just not an option anymore) but I am also not going to freak out over a skinned knee from playing. Kids need to experience some risk so they learn how to manage risks.

      • divaliscious11

        Agreed and my experience is similar in the DC metro area and the Chicago metro area as well as the Northeast.

    • Ditto

      I am in nearly your exact same situation. I don’t have any advice, but I’d love to hear what others have to say about this. I grew up in a big family, and my parents retained busy social lives, but my mom was a SAHM and thus didn’t feel too guilty about leaving us with a sitter so they could go out at night.

      As an aside, I work at a major art museum, and children are very much welcome at all times. In fact, I wish more parents would begin exposing their children to art at young ages.

      • Anonymous

        Well, I know I feel pretty guilty leaving the kids with a sitter on Friday or Sat. eve, when they have been at daycare all week from 7-6pm, and bedtime is 8 or so. That, and I frankly just miss spending time with them. My SAHM friends cant wait for the weekly babysitter. lol. In any event, its good to get some adult time here and there.

    • T

      I don’t think there is a clear answer on this one, there are so many different factors. For one I think other countries put a much bigger emphasis on the extended family and believe in the “it takes a village to raise a child” mentality. Here it seems the attitude is more, they’re your kids you take care of them, and keep them quiet please you are invading my space.

      I have an almost 14 year old daughter so I’ve run the whole gamut on going out with kids. From what I can tell there are two groups of childless people: those who love kids like Legally Brunette and those who think they are annoying and think their own kids will behave much better and never embarrass them or throw tantrums in public. I always found the ones who don’t like kids (or think they know how to be parents even though they don’t have kids) stick in your mind alot more and can make it uncomfortable to go places with your kids (even though you know its wrong to think that). Having gotten through the young ages and not having to worry about misbehavior anymore, whenever I see a parent struggling with their kids in public I actually smile and think, “I remember that, poor mom/dad, they shouldn’t be embarrassed their kids are just being normal.” Or if I see a parent coming down to hard to prevent their kids from misbehaving I think, “She/he should just relax and let her kids be kids, its OK if they have fun and get a little loud, they’re kids!”

      As to maintaining a social life, it depends on which side is the one not willing to socialize. Some parents are very excited to be new parents and get wrapped up in it for awhile. And some non-parents mistakenly think, “Oh well she’s a mom now, she can’t hang out and have fun anymore.” I think the biggest thing for me was when my ideas of having a good night out changed from my friends’. Hanging out at the bar all night waiting to get picked up just wasn’t fun anymore!

      Well I don’t think I actually gave any advice, but good luck and when you do have kids don’t be afraid to take them many places and don’t be embarrassed when they act like kids! Us parents have been there and we think its normal (and even cute sometimes!)

    • anon

      To be honest, I don’t think its that parents in the US are anti-social with their kids, they just want their kids to get a good sleep. Trotting your children around town, when they’d rather be in bed, just makes for cranky kids and cranky parents. Sleep begets sleep. So, when a kid gets interrupted/short sleep, it doesn’t mean that he/she will sleep in the next day. What it often means is that you’ll be up, all nite with your kid trying to get him/her to fall asleep again. Kids like schedules and routines. Small changes in the routine can interfere with sleep for everyone, well beyond the infant months and into the child-years.

      Our society is very much centered around schedules and how we raise our children reflect that. You may not see as many dual working families, with little to no help from extended family, in Asia and the Middle East, who can care for these kids while the parents are working. These societies are structured completely differently from the US and I’m baffled that you find them comparable. Your friends are probably just trying to manage life, here, with children, and most often with little to no help from extended family.

      All that said, we are fortunate that our son will sleep almost anywhere, and we’ve been able to take him out to adult dinners, restaurants, some parties, etc and put him down to sleep. While I don’t find that my son is unwelcome in social settings, he can also be very demanding for attention. It’s incredibly hard to carry on conversation with someone when you have a three year-old latched onto your leg. In the end, it’s not always enjoyable to have him at a social gathering, and it’s incredibly difficult for most toddlers to sit through an hour long dinner at a restaurant. Further, I honestly prefer going out without him and having the alone time with my husband because we rarely have time to spend together.

      Now, if you want to have children and maintain an active social life, then you’ll need to find a lot of babysitters and be willing to spend $60-$100+ per nite when you need them (on top of all the other $$ you’re spending for the nite out. These fees are in addition to what you’re spending in day care, which runs about $1400 per month, in a small city). I’m belaboring the financial piece because I find that childless friends really don’t get it, even if they really love children and would like to have a child of their own. You will also need to find someone to maintain your house. You probably won’t find a lot of working parents at the museum every weekend with their kids because these are the only days they have to grocery shop, pick-up dry cleaning, take the kids to sports activities, etc. Also, young kids nap in the middle of the day. Wherever you are, you need to be able to provide a nap until the age of 4ish. This can seriously cramp your plans for the day. By the time they wake up, it’s time to start dinner. And then bed routines which can take up to an hour if you’re into reading books to your kid. In sum, if you want an active social life and kids, be prepared to fork over a lot of extra cash to have someone at home providing the routine your child will need while you are out.

      • Marla

        From the standpoint of a kid-free friend, when parents insist on bringing their kids every single time, it can become easier to not invite them. It’s one thing to have a day when we all get together and do something kid-centric (zoo, whatever). But to maintain a strong friendship, you have to be able to actually speak with each other, which is often very hard if they bring the (young) kids every single time. And while it’s understandable to need to eat at restaurants where kids can find something to eat, I have no desire to go to McDonald’s each and every time we get together. (And if the kids were allowed to play in the Play Place, thus giving the adults a chance to talk, great. But when they’re not, and thus every trip to McDonald’s involves a melt down about getting to play, and every trip to anywhere other than McDonald’s results in a meltdown about not eating at McDonald’s. . . .) Eventually, it can become easier to not invite the friend who wants to bring her kid, because with certain friends getting together just amounts to waiting for their kid to have a meltdown, trying to preempt it, and disaster ensuing. Obviously this is not everyone with kids, or even all of my friends with kids, but if you have kids and find yourself out of the social loop, maybe you need a night sans kids with your friends to reconnect. Oh, and another way to get off the guest list is to show up with your kid to a cocktail party in my (not-child-proofed) home. Because no matter how much you, I, or anyone else likes your kid, it’s not safe (or polite) to bring him/her to a home without advance notice, especially one without kids and thus things that could ultimately hurt the child within easy reach.

        • Anon

          You are the voice of reason here. Thank you.

          The thought of all of these parents dragging their children to late dinners in expensive restaurants, movie theatres and theatres while they scream and fidget away was terrifying me slightly. Some things are appropriate for children. Other things are not. If people can’t be bothered to discipline their children effectively, they certainly shouldn’t be inflicted on the rest of us in our down time.

          And the reality is that going to ‘visit’ somewhere is not the same as being inculcated in the culture and comparisons are fruitless. I’m European (from one country at least). Many of the indicators show that the children here are healthier and happier. This has much more to do with the way government and social provision are structured than in letting children stay up at night. In my current place of work I have 6 weeks of annual paid leave (I’m an 0L). In the equivalent job I had in New York a year ago I had 5 days. I work much shorter hours now (as does most of Europe compared to America). Childcare is cheaper and better regulated etc etc. Better rested cultures have happier citizens. This is what makes the difference.

      • A.

        The nap thing is something I didn’t understand until we had kids. My nearly 4-year-old is still napping in the early afternoon. Part of it is that he needs it, part of it is that they still nap at school and his teachers have asked all the parents to at least enforce a “quiet/rest” time on the weekends, so kids can stay in the routine at school. Basically, wherever we are, by about 1:30, we need to be home so he can rest for awhile. Sometimes he will lay down for 30 minutes and then bounce up, sometimes he sleeps for 3 1/2 hours. It makes it really hard to schedule mid-afternoon events because I just don’t know when he’ll be up, and waking him up to go somewhere has not worked out well (to say the least) in the past.

        However, the “household” stuff is something that I have deprioritized in order to have more time to be active as a family on the weekends. We have a housekeeper twice a month and in the interim, we keep things picked up, but the house is by no means picture-perfect most of the time. We almost never have drop-in guests so I don’t worry about it. I have one day off during the week where I try to run the majority of our errands when I have my son with me – again, this is something I tried to train him about early, to go with me places and behave. On the weekends, we try to really think about what we “need” to do vs. what we “should” do, because the priority is family time. My house is not perfect and my clothes are not always ironed, but we have food and clean clothes and the basic necessities of life and I feel like that’s fine. I’ll have plenty of years to have things perfect all the time when my son leaves home.
        We do keep my son on a routine but I have found that breaking the routine every now and then – going out later than we normally would, or putting him to bed later than usual – has had the result of him being more flexible and able to “roll with the punches” when something happens where we HAVE to break the routine (like on vacation, or trips to family’s houses). I have one friend who has been so rigid about her childrens’ routine that the kids absolutely panic and melt down if they do not get their meals at X time or go to bed by 8:30, which I don’t think will happen every day of someone’s life between ages 0 and 12. Routines are good and important but flexibility is a good life skill to learn as well.

    • michelle

      my kids are older now but when they were small we often socialized with other families and would often go out to dinner w/all the kids. I think the question is that since you don’t want to go out as often with “just” adults you do become less available to your non-kid friends, since you have less overall time for adults-only gatherings with so much more to juggle. But I didn’t find that socializing went away. Taking my kids out to events with non-kid friends was more difficult, though; some occasions were perfectly fine but others the kids were a distraction as it’s very hard to converse about the same things friends without kids care about while watching your own, who tend to be very demanding of your attention when they are little – and trust me, they are NOT as adorable to your childless friends as they are to you. Then as the kids get older they disappear together to play games/watch TV/etc and it works much better, and not long after that they don’t want to go anywhere with you anyway…
      so, if your children are small, I recommend doing all sorts of things with other families (restaurants, parks, pot lucks, bbq’s, whatever, both in homes and out), while still maintaining adult-only evenings with whatever you liked to do Before Children (dinner, shows,movies…)

      • Lizbet

        I have found that geography seems to make a difference in how easy it is to socialize with families that have children. Suburbs, where people with children tend to congregate, can offer an easy setting for casual get-togethers that include children. These might be street parties, picnics, or gathering at each others’ homes (which have some toys and room for children to play). This lets adults have some time to actually talk to each other, once the children are past the trying-to-constantly-kill-themselves phase. It does require making an effort to reach out to neighbors. Once done, though, it becomes easy to invite a mix of adults, with and without children, and have still have adult social needs met.

        My city-dwelling friends tend to have smaller homes and lower densities of children in any given neighborhood. That makes it tougher to get a group together in private homes. Going out somewhere every time — even if it’s a park or museum — makes it tougher for the adults to ensure children are entertained enough to let them have some conversation. I think this is part of the reason suburbs are attractive to families with children.

        Here’s hoping this doesn’t kick off a war between committed city-dwellers and suburbanites! Each location has its pluses and minuses, and each choice is equally valid. Seriously.

    • Eponine

      I think that a lot of parents who drop off the face of the earth kind of do it to themselves. I’d say about half of my friends who have kids invite me to do things with them, and half don’t. And the half who don’t tend to be the ones who really started to drop off the face of the earth the day after getting engaged, you know, the ones who never do anything without their spouse in tow.

      Anyway, I genuinely enjoy being invited to do things with my friends and their kids. Kids and adults both like to go out to lunch, go shopping (depending on the kid), go to museums, go to the zoo, etc. Focus on including your single friends in these activities. I also like to have people over for dinner or drinks, and I almost always say kids are welcome. Also, once you have a baby, just invite your girlfriends over to hang out! No one cares if your house is messy, you’ll appreciate adult company, and most single women are thrilled with the opportunity to snuggle a newborn.

      Finally, a tip on getting your kids to behave with adults – if the kid isn’t going to be the center of attention, you need to bring an activity for them. I’m always shocked at how many parents will take their kid somewhere like a restaurant, church or even the doctor’s office where the kid has to sit quietly for an extended period of time. Even a coloring book can make a huge difference in how they behave.

      • Lizbet

        Amen on providing entertainment!! It makes all the difference in the world (again, once the children are old enough to self-entertain). I used to tote a large diaper bag full of distractions, even after the diapers were no longer needed. It’ll give you quite a bit more time to enjoy your adult friends!

      • Shayna

        Ditto on all counts – a friend who suddenly is perma-ttached to her fiance/husband is putting up a wall that says she’s not available – and that she rarely if ever calls is the final nail in the relationship – and yes, bringing crayons, coloring books, puzzles, etc. for your children when they are not the center of attention/activity is a must. As a child I remember my mother taking out a dozen different ‘quiet’ activities to entertain my siblings and I at restaurants, waiting rooms, friends houses who did not have children and my grandmother’s house (who despite having raised two children failed to provide anything to entertain my siblings and I when we visited for hours on end).

    • North Shore

      Your friends haven’t stopped socializing. They are now socializing with other parents who have kids the same age as their kids. The kids play together while the parents get to talk, or the families all meet at a park, event, etc. All parties are happy to conclude the action by 9 p.m. so the kids aren’t sleep-deprived terrors the next day.

      I’m a working mother, so I feel extra guilty hiring a sitter for the weekend, plus I want to see my kids, hence we socialize with other parents.

      Oh, and I invited kids to my wedding. We had a babysitter on site with a room where they could play, sleep, or watch t.v., but they were welcome to dance and eat cake with the rest of us, too, if they wanted. It was wonderful. I loved seeing my little relatives and friends’ kids, and they were hilarious on the dance floor.

      • anon - chi

        Just so long as no one brings kids to weddings where they are NOT invited. This has happened to several friends of mine, and it’s always a major source of stress – when your cousin writes in the names of all three kids on the RSVP card even though the envelope was clearly addressed to just her and her husband, do you call and make a scene? Or find extra money in your budget to cover additional people and come up with a kid-friendly meal from your caterer? Argh.

      • RoadWarriorette

        I get what you’re saying. But how should the friends who never see the new mom anymore feel? “Sorry guys, I’m not going to ever see you anymore, but I love spending time with all of these new friends I made who are also moms.” Is it bad that this has hurt my feelings in the past?

        • RKS

          Then look for some way to socialize with her that works with the changes in her life. She may not be able to do a happy hour or later dinner any longer. But she certainly should be able to meet for coffee, have you come over to her house, etc. Tell her you miss her and strategize with her on how to get together!!

    • C

      My husband and I have two boys, ages 12 and 9, and since they were small we have hosted dinner parties regularly for friends and their kids. This is the norm among our group of friends, and enables all age groups to mix and enjoy each other.

    • KZ

      I don’t have many friends that have kids yet (still a little young), but I’ll throw one thing out there–there are some events that are supposedly “only” for kids that I adore. I love Disney movies. I love trick or treating. Easter egg hunts are awesome. I also plan on never having kids. Therefore, I would love it if my friends that do have kids invite me for these sort of things, because it gives me an excuse to be there that I won’t ever have. That being said, if there is an “adult” type event where it is ambiguous if children are welcome (a dinner party at someone’s house, eg), I would prefer people just ask the hostess if their children are welcome, and not be offended if the answer is “no, please try to find a babysitter.”

    • divaliscious11

      The trick is determining kid appropriateness, and also knowing your kid(s). My kids have been eating in restaurants since they were babies so the term “restaurant manners” means something to them. I can now take them to the finest restaurant and not worry about their behavior, unless something else is going on with them. At the same time, if something IS going on with them, its my responsibility to ask them to wrap our food and not disturb everyone else’s evening. We’ve spent significant time in Europe, and most European cultures simply are more family oriented than in the US. Some people would have a stroke if someone suggested siesta to eat with the family and rest midday etc… And the other poster is right, after 8 pm in the US will get you looks, in much of Europe, you are just headed to dinner….

      We maintain our social life by: hosting dinner parties, doing events with our friends who have children, inviting our friends who don’t have kids to these events etc… There are also mom’s organizations that do activities with and for the children and the whole family…. And its also important to find a sitter, because you don’t want your whole identity subsumed in your kids. Not to say your kids aren’t the most important thing in your life, but if you do the whole parenting thing right, they are going to grow up and leave and if you don’t have anything else going on, you will either miserable, or make them miserable but not allowing them to be adults, which is lose -lose for everybody.

      Parenthood only isolating if you let it be….

      • Kit

        On a similar note, I’m interested in hearing any suggestions you might have for dealing with the friends with not so well behaved children that insist on bringing their children to my non-childproofed home. At what point do I intervene when parents take this opportunity not to parent? Before or after the cat is traumatized, the red juice is spilled on the carpet, the screen door is broken, and the couch is sticky? I often feel like it becomes my job to entertain the toddlers to avoid destruction of my home so their parents can socialize. I don’t want to loose the friendship…

        • Lizbet

          Oh dear — I feel for you. The bad news is that your non-parenting parent friends are unlikely to change. And most of the species are likely to get offended if you bring it up. After all, they apparently aren’t noticing or caring that your carpet, couch and cat have been traumatized already. It might work to hire a local teenager to ride herd on the kids while they’re at your house, or to meet those friends at a park (or better yet, their houses!). One local semi-outdoor mall has a fenced-in play area with swings, climbing toys and tricycles, where parents can cage their children while they talk (semi-distractedly) with their non-parent friends.

        • divaliscious11

          Are they bringing the red juice et al to your house? That is uncool, and I’d say, no Red juice before they come over. As a Mom, I tend to have white grape juice and seltzer on hand to make the kids “grown up” drinks. those parents are disrepectful of your home, and unfortunately its not because they are parents.

          Before I had kids, I did have a discreet box of fun stuff for kids (games/movies/fun plastic popcorn boxes that look like the ones at the movies etc…) for when my friends with kids popped by but if the offending friend doesn’t have a clue, I’d meet her at her house or the park etc….

          If its a real friend, I think you can say, “Hey, my house isn’t kid proof, so I welcome your babies, but I need you to keep an eye out so no one gets hurt…” I wouldn’t have a problem with that at all, but my kids still bring their own entertainment whenever we travel or go visiting. Their backpacks always have books or a leapster and cartridges etc…

        • anon - chi

          I think your choices are to either (1) confront the parents about the fact that you just don’t think it’s a good idea to have kids in your home or (2) stop inviting these people to your house. You can always socialize with them elsewhere, but frankly, any “friend” who doesn’t bat an eye when your house is being destroyed and your pet is being terrorized doesn’t sound like much of a friend to me.

          • Kit

            Thanks for your responses. If she were a good friend, this wouldn’t be an issue. Sometimes you just need to hear it from someone else.

    • Seventh Sister

      My toddler is (finally!) generally pretty good at restaurants, esp. if they are the loud and/or family-friendly kind. The main trouble with dining out with non-childed friends is that the toddler is ready to eat dinner at 5pm. By 7:30-8pm, she’s pretty much a screaming mess no matter how many DVDs she has watched. :o)

      One way we solve this issue is to invite friends over for dinner at our place – I can feed her, bathe her and put her down in her own bed *before* we eat. Also, we can entertain our guests with the “floor show” (aka toddler dancing + singing songs off-key) or our ability to recite “Where the Wild Things Are” from memory.

      I really love, and miss, hanging out with friends who don’t have kids, but one thing that makes it really, really easy is when I can have some input about what time we’ll hang out. Early afternoon (nap) is usually the worst, but mid-morning is usually very doable.

      One thing I try to remember is that with a 2-year old, she will not be scarred for life if we miss Baby Swim Class the one time or Playgroup Kid’s Birthday Party.

    • Legally Brunette

      Thanks for all of the great insight that you have all provided. I’m very happy to hear that so many of you are still socializing with friends, even if that means hanging out more with parents with kids or doing things at home. I also understand that some of you feel guilty for hiring a sitter on the weekend when you’ve worked long days during the week, but hopefully you can at least do it once in a while — some adult-only time if probably good for everyone.

      • RKS

        Legally Brunette, I’m not picking on you here — but you just said something that makes me crazy. This is meant generically, not to you specifically. :-)

        Yes, most parents are willing to get a baby-sitter once in a while f0r some adult time. We do it. BUT the number of people who tell me that *THEIR* event should be my adult time makes me crazy. In the last month, I’ve had it happen twice — once for a social event I’m organizing for an outdoors club, once with my aunt who thinks that every time we see her should be adults-only time. Yanno, at $16+ per hour + babysitter’s busy schedule + my busy schedule + my desire to see my kids, there are only so many times this is going to happen. Please don’t dictate when my adult time should take place. I’ve got enough problems trying to find a date night with my husband for us to have some alone/adult time; other people demanding more of that time just adds to my stress. If someone dictates that they’ll only see me if I get a sitter … well, they won’t see me too frequently.

    • RKS

      We have three kids (8, 7, 4) and we maintain a pretty active social life. Our boys have been going to restaurants from pretty young ages, they love to go to parties, movies, etc. We have a pretty broad circle of friends and do stuff with them.

      That said, we do tailor what we do to the kids’ needs. Although my kids can stay up late on occasion, it’s not too frequent and frankly, so much depends on how they’re doing that particular day. In general, we go out on the early side and are not out after 9pm, just because doing that would set ourselves up for cranky, bad behavior coming from exhaustion. Sure, we could take our kids to a restaurant for an 8 pm dinner … but I then can’t guarantee a quiet dinner for the patrons around us. :-) We also think about what our kids can tolerate — one has noise sensitivities, so going to a concert or club would not be good for him. And for us — we have a kid who will be up at 7 am, regardless of when he went to sleep. So there is no sleeping in the morning after a late night; there is just a cranky kid who’s tired but awake. Bottom line: social disapproval has nothing to do with our planning.

      Why things are different in the US: my kids need to be up in the morning. Two are in school, they have to be out the door around 8:45. When they were in daycare, we *all* had to be out the door by 8 am, if not earlier. Since they couldn’t sleep in and lack of sleep led to cranky behavior, that limited our evening social activities, particularly on school nights. If schools start later in other countries, or if kids have a siesta built into their day, that changes the equation.

      Like others have said, we also limit the kids’ time with babysitters. They already have a nanny in the house 9-6. I don’t see them during the day, so when the weekend rolls around, they are my priority.

      If you want to stay involved with friends who have kids, reach out to them. Be flexible in what you do with them — see what works for both of you. Example: we are going to go hiking and do a picnic with a childless couple we’re friends with. They enjoy the outdoors; we can easily bring the kids and let them run. Win-win!

  11. MPC

    Can anyone recommend a tailor in the Capitol Hill or Dupont Circle neighborhoods of DC? I have a dress and 2 skirt suits that need to be taken in. I’d use my boyfriend’s tailor, but he works mostly with men… is a good tailor a good tailor, or is it worth it to find someone who works regularly with women’s figures? (I am small-framed, but curvy for my size.)

    • CFM

      I’d love an answer to this as well, I used the tailor at the drycleaner near by and it was a disaster, my suit jacket was essentially ruined, and I just needed the sleeves shorter.

    • Tailor

      Not in DC, but Tracey Young in Silver Spring is excellent. She told me that she has lots of clients from DC who come to see her. You’ll need a car to get to her house, as she doesn’t live near any metro. Her info is available on Angie’s List.

    • Anonymous

      The Washington Post fashion chat regularly recommends Georgetown Valet. I think there’s one on New Hampshire, just south of Dupont and there may be one on the Hill. You may be able to search the chat archives for more suggestions.

    • R

      I’ve lived on CH for a while and love, LOVE, Congressional Cleaners on Pennsylvania (I think it’s between 6th and 7th SE, but I might be off by a block). They do dry cleaning and tailoring and are speedy and relatively cheap. I have had them do all sorts of alterations for me, including jeans, suits, formal gown, etc. I was skeptical the first time because the head tailor (mom of the family-run business) works out of their other location and one of her (adult) kids usually just puts a couple safety pins in your clothes and sends you on your way. However, even with complicated alterations (changing the shoulders/arms of lined suit jackets, lowering the waist-band on a pair of slacks), they’ve never done wrong by me. Everything always comes out perfectly. On the more complex alterations they often encourage you to try on the garment when you pick it up before you leave the store, just to make sure they got it right. Though I have never needed them to re-do anything, I’m sure they would, no charge and no questions asked.

      I’m moving away from the Hill soon and, as you can probably tell, I’ll really miss these guys. I get almost all of my clothes tailored and am anxious about finding someone as good as Congressional Cleaners by my new home.

    • Eponine

      I can tell you not to go to Lee’s Tailoring near McPherson Square. Sadly, have not yet found where you should go, so I’ll be following this thread.

    • North Shore

      Diana in Georgetown (Diana’s couture & bridal) did an incredible job altering my mother’s wedding dress to fit me. I wonder if she does normal alterations, too. I no longer live in the area. You could call her and ask who she’d recommend if she doesn’t do normal tailoring.

    • 1L

      You must go to Ms. Joon at Dupont Court Cleaners on 18th and S St (around the corner from Mandu). I am pear-shaped and tall and always have to have things lengthened or taken in at the waist. When I lived in DC, I refused to go anywhere else – she does a fantastic job and her prices are very reasonable. In fact, I’m in CA right now for law school but will be working in DC again this summer and I’ve held off on having things altered until I can get back to DC and see her.

  13. NB

    Professional women, especially attorneys —

    What do you consider appropriate attire for your assistants to wear at the office? I’m a legal assistant at a very small (2 full-time attorneys), very casual (my boss has come in wearing a jogging suit) law firm. As my boss told me that my professional appearance is what put me above the other candidates for my position (despite the fact that I had no experience and was fresh out of college) and as I am about to be promoted to office manager, I want to maintain a professional appearance; however, I don’t want to be overdressed. Any suggestions?

    Comments regarding general traits, habits, expectations, etc. of your assistants are also appreciated…even if it’s just an open rant about frustrating assistants :)

    • Eponine

      I think an office manager or executive assistant of any type needs to be dressed appropriately to meet with anyone on very short notice. Imagine your boss has a meeting with a very high-profile client, you have to greet the client because your boss is running late, and – oops! – your boss forgot to tell you about the meeting and has just called you from his cell phone with only five minutes’ notice. What would you want to be wearing in that situation? That’s how you should dress every day.

      I know a couple of office managers, although at larger offices. Both tend to wear jackets every day, but not full suits. I imagine that a sweater set is perfectly fine for a more casual office. I do think that it’s important to have a pulled-together, polished appearance because it makes you seem organized, cool and collected, which are the traits a good office manager will have. The best office managers and assistants I’ve worked with are like ducks – paddling furiously below the surface, but gliding along gracefully.

      Finally, be confident. Your boss is in charge, but you’re going to be the one who makes the place run.

      • Anonymous

        I concur. I don’t think you need a suit (or even a jacket) everyday, given that your firms seems quite casual, but go for a look that says “polished.”

      • Anon

        Agree. You should wear clothes that are a little more structured or polished looking (dresses in something other than T-shirt material, skirts or pants that are well-pressed and coordinated with your tops and jewelry, etc.).

        Other tips are just to be practical, organized and don’t wait to be told what to do. If it’s obvious, just do it. If you’re pretty sure it’s a good idea but you’re not sure, make a suggestion and explain your reasoning, flagging any costs or resource issues that need to be considered (we’d need to hire a consultant, it would take half my time for 3 weeks, etc.). Follow up in a gentle way if you don’t get an answer…perhaps the attorneys were just too busy to consider your suggestion when you first raised it; that doesn’t mean it’s not a good idea and they don’t want to do it.

        I love nothing better than when a legal assistant or secretary comes to me and says “it’s time to do that think we talked about three weeks ago” or “just a gentle reminder that you wanted to….” It is a huge load off my mind to know that while I am thinking about the law, client relations and dealing with adversaries, someone else can be relied upon to make sure the trains are running. I spend about 50% of my work time making sure that other people are doing what they should know to do because it’s their job and/or what I’ve asked them to do but they’ve forgotten, so anyone who demonstrates I don’t have to do that with them is appreciated. Anyone who consistently reminds me about what *I* agreed to do and may have forgotten, even if it’s not directly relevant to a task they’ve been assigned, goes on my “best support staff ever” list.

    • NB

      Thank you all so much! I really appreciate the help. Typically, I’d just take my cue from the other ladies working at my office; however, the secretaries have been there for quite a few years and, IMHO, have gotten a little *too* comfortable in their positions (Flip-flips in the office? Really?)

      I love how supportive this community is…and hope that in a few years, instead of being an assistant, I’ll be an actual Corporette :)

  14. LexCaritas

    Expect you’ll have a lot of useful feedback from the C’ette community here.

    It sounds as if your boss has a positive view of your professional appearance already, so stick with your current approach, and perhaps look for a few new pieces you can slot into your existing wardrobe to reflect the promotion. Pick co-ordinating items that can do double-triple duty and you can get away with purchasing less.

    If you are appearing professional already, you probably already are avoiding the following: low-cut and tight/clingy clothing, jangling bracelets; perfume; underwear/bra details that show through your clothes; very high heels; heavy makeup; short skirts. Obviously if your new role has you coming into contact with clients, then your clothes need to be appropriate to this.

    My assistant was in her first role after school when she joined me about three years ago. I didn’t have any problems with her attire which consists of dresses/pants and cardigans. I think my only unusual issue with her was having to ask her to keep her voice down when speaking to colleagues right outside my office door (I think she may have had an inner ear problem).

    Good luck & congratulations on your promotion!

  15. Anonymous 1

    Confession to coworkers who complimented my outfit yesterday — Thank you, that was so kind, but it wasn’t J.Crew and my jewellery wasn’t from the jeweller.

    It was Land’s End clearance and Pearl Paradise (with a discount code). Just didn’t have the heart to tell you, you seemed so happy.

    But thanks, that compliment made me smile.

    • Eponine

      A friend asked me yesterday if my outfit was from J. Crew, when it was really a combo of Lands End, Talbots Outlet and Filene’s. I don’t think I’ve ever even set foot in a J. Crew. Lands End FTW.

  16. A

    I have natural medium blonde hair, with highlights and lowlights mixed in naturally. My hair has gradually been getting darker, as I haven’t been in the sun lately (I’m a 2L!). Two days ago, I did something stupid to my perfectly-pretty-even-though-getting-darker-i-should-have-left-it-alone-darn-it! hair. *sigh* Now my hair looks brassy and a bit “yellow”ish…although its probably not that big of a change since my husband didn’t notice anything at all even after I told him, I’m still freaking out. I know, I know…I was stupid…I don’t need comments on how I should have messed with my hair. What I need is help fixing this before my summer associate position starts in 2 weeks!!

    Are there shampoos that you ladies have used that would help so that I don’t need to get my hair dyed to return it to normal? I’ve read something about “blue-ing” shampoos. Useful? Help!!

    • KZ

      I’ve never actually tried this because I don’t dye my hair, but I did once read somewhere that super cheap shampoos will quickly strip out dye because they’re so harsh.

    • Eponine

      Did you dye it yourself? I’ve never gone blonde, but one of my coworkers dyes hers, and she always looks brassy for 4-5 days after dyeing. Then the color kind of fades a bit and looks the way she likes it. Also, consider that maybe it is not as bad as you think if your husband didn’t even notice. Instead of just looking in the mirror, take some pictures of yourself outside in natural light and see how it looks at those – especially take pictures of the back of your head because you’ll be able to look at the color with more objectivity if your face isn’t in the photo.

      If you do decide to try to fix it, please, please, go to a professional. I messed up self color a few times in high school and college and trying to fix it myself was always a disaster.

    • Delta Sierra

      Is it just the colour? That is, of course easily fixed by a good hairdresser, although I can see that if you have pretty hair already, you don’t want to get committed to that whole thing. I’ve read about semi-permanent hair dye, but don’t know how it behaves over time.

      If it’s texture, oy. I wrecked mine’s texture a few years back. Found a good hairdresser who helped nurse it back to health, but mostly all that could be done was judiciously trim away the wrecked hair, keeping it shaped and as short as I could stand, until it grew out.

    • A.

      Don’t feel bad. A few years ago I decided I was unhappy with my salon dye job and decided to use some cheap supermarket dye to change the color. My hair came out olive green. And it was definitely noticeable. Talk about freaking out. Here’s what I learned from that experience:

      – White Rain or another extremely cheap, non-moisturizing shampoo is what one of my friend’s husbands, who is a barber, recommended at first. It strips color and he initially thought 4-5 washes with it would strip out the home dye. Unfortunately, it didn’t work, but since then, I’ve had friends try it and it has worked.
      – Then we tried a chlorine-removing shampoo (UltraSwim). That apparently sometimes works. Not on my hair.
      – I finally had to break down and call my hairstylist. She got me in that afternoon for corrective color. It took three hours and cost $350, way more than it would have cost if I had just called her and told her I was unhappy with my color and wanted to change it.
      – There is now a drugstore product (I believe it’s called “Color Oops” that is supposed to take out color mistakes, it’s probably worth a try. But honestly, before you do too much, I would consult a stylist and see what they have to say. Hair dye apparently varies a lot and what might work to remove color mistakes on one person might make the color situation worse on another person.
      Good luck! :)

    • MelD

      I remember when I got red highlights I was using Aveda shampoo for blonde hair and they were gone in a week! I second the suggestion to try a cheaper shampoo that is made for normal, non-color treated hair. If that doesn’t work, you can always go to a salon and see if they have any hair treatments they can give you that would get rid of the brassiness without requiring a full hair dye.

    • michelle

      there is a product called something like Color Oops that works pretty well to remove dye (my teen has had enough crises like this that I make her buy some whenever she buys hair dye). It evened removed the red highlights that turned out to be orange.

      • TK1

        Definitely go to a salon to get it looked at and fixed if necessary! The more you try to do yourself that goes wrong the more damage you can cause and the more expensive/less successful gixing it will be. If you are dying your hair at home and want to avoid brassy DON’T use “golden” colors use the “ash” colors. The golden colors have a reddish tone to them to achieve the golden. The ash can give you the green though. Try to always stay within a few shades of your own color, drastic changes are for the hairdresser. That’s what I’ve learned from years of home dying and salon dying.

        Good luck!

    • AEK

      Aveda’s blue malva shampoo and conditioner neutralize brassiness. I use it on my brown hair with blonde highlights; it definitely makes a difference. The conditioner actually deposits pigment to neutralize yellow/reddish tones. I’m a big fan. I don’t see it stocked in a lot of salons, but it’s available online.

    • KLo

      DO NOT USE BLUEING. It’ll turn your hair white. Or it could. And it could stain it blue. (I had a grey pony … which means white pony … we used it to get stains out of her tail … we turned it blue more than once). Take the hit and call your stylist. I had to do this last week … but I colored mine 3 times to try to correct it. 4 colorings in 2 weeks is a lot of damage. Please don’t do it, please call the colorist. Please. (Can you tell it matters to me? Save your hair!!)

    • anon

      Clairol Shimmer Lights should fix the brassiness. It’s pretty drying so don’t use it too often though. You can find it at Sally’s

  17. T

    I’m graduating law school in a week and my parents have been asking me what I’d like for graduation. I mentioned a nice leather work bag/briefcase, but I can’t seem to find one that is stylish AND big enough to fit legal sized files in (the firm I’ll be working uses legal sized red ropes and manila file folders). I’d really love commentors input on the following: 1) are there any stylish leather bags out there big enough to carry legal sized files, and 2) if there are are not, what would other good graduation gift ideas be?

    • Delta Sierra

      Subscription to The Economist? Been reading it for years. Keeps me up to date on world affairs, books, the arts, scientific news.

      • SF Bay Associate

        We recently got a subscription to the Economist for _$12_ a year, through some deal online. At that price, everyone should snap it up.

        • SF Bay Associate

          Just kidding, $12 for 12 issues, and then it automatically renews for another $12 for 12.

          • 3L

            I used to love The Economist, but I think the subscription is way too expensive. Now, I just subscribe to the editor’s weekly newsletter and read all the articles online.

            For print subscription, I subscribe to the magazine “The Week,” which imo, is just as good and has similar world coverage, but much less pricy. I highly recommend.

    • KZ

      my mother was asking me this the other day. I think I may ask them to frame my diploma (though I think this was also supposed to be my present for undergrad and I never got around to picking out a frame…)–the nice frames with your school name and logo get a little pricey, and it will be good to hang on my office one day (assuming I ever find a job. I can’t believe I’m graduating in a week and don’t have a job. Stupid economy).

    • SUCL 3L

      Great timing on the question. My dad and I JUST got home from the mall a little while earlier, buying my law school graduation gift! I’d asked him for a bag kind of like what you’re describing. Originally, he was going to pick it out himself, but then decided to take me to pick it out instead. So one suggestion would be to ask to be taken to a store where you think you could find what you’re looking for (maybe a Coach, Cole Haan, or department store.
      But that being said, the bag we got was a Dooney & Burke from Macy’s. It’s a red leather tote that is definitely sizable enough to carry a legal file.
      I love my daddy. And he’s so proud of me. :)

      • MM

        I asked my g’parents to frame my diploma with a nice frame with my school’s emblem on the mat. It’s actually quite expensive, and I never would have splurged on it myself, but I really love it. I did this for both college and law school.

    • Shayna

      Are you moving for your job? If you are moving from a grad apartment to a real home (i.e. your first furnish-it-yourself and buy real pots-and-pans place) consider what housewares/electronics you’ll need (or if a gift certificate to bed, bath, and beyond, et. al. would be better)

      Classic jewelery – pearls, etc. are always good as well

  18. Delta Sierra

    Polite request for anons and Anons and Anonymouses and As to consider using distinctive screen names, please? Gets confusing trying to follow long threads.

    • anon

      how is it confusing? I don’t find it to be. Usually it’s not necessary to know who said what earlier in the thread unless someone’s asking for specific advice for their situation, in which case usually they have a name or specify that they’re the OP…

      personally I wouldn’t comment as much if I had a distinctive name, I don’t want people linking up my posts and figuring out who I am. I don’t think this is too unreasonable assuming that I’m not posting anything mean or rude.

      • anon2

        lol @ anon, like we are all going to stalk your posts and piece together every comment of yours in a vast conspiracy to figure out who you are and come after you!

        • anon

          i stick to anon because I have several friends and co-workers who read corporette.

    • KZ

      that was kind of amazing how much stuff she fit into that suitcase. I don’t think I could ever manage that, and I roll my clothes! Also, did you see this link from the article–http://www.skyroll.com/ I want the one on wheels. It’s ingenious.

    • t

      Shayna, I have a bigger problem – lifting the suitcase into the overhead compartment. I have a prior shoulder injury, and do exercises suggested by my physical therapist to strengthen it. However, I still can’t haul a fully stuffed suitcase to the bin w/o straining it :-(

      • Delta Sierra

        Ask the cabin staff for help. I did this when I tore my rotator cuff, they were great.

        • divaliscious11

          But don’t be surprised if they politely decline. Technically that’s not their job, and if he/she gets hurt, they have to use their sick time, versus work injury time since handling baggage is technically outside the scope of their job…..

      • Shayna

        :-( I would “check it and forget it” – especially since that way you can put your shampoo/conditioner/etc. in the suitcase without worry about size of the bottle (b/c you need more than 3 ounces for ten days… which was not addressed!)

        BUT – I thought her method of folding the items-that-wrinkle-easily around the ok-if-they-get-crunched items was AWESOME and plan to try it out this week

  20. Lizbet

    Like this watch! Anyone seen something similar closer to the $50 and below price range? $125 is more than I care to pay for such a trendy/”fun” item.

  22. Delta Sierra

    MAY0610AF for extra 15% off on the Ralph Lauren sale, which runs til mon10may.

  23. Friend

    I wanted to ask you overachieving chicks, especially the lawyers, how to handle this small friendship and etiquette dilemma.

    I just found out that my friend, who I will call Natalia, has just failed the MA bar exam for the fifth or sixth time. I would like to send her an email letting her know that I saw the results and that I am so sorry that she did not pass. The thing is that she did not tell me herself that she did not pass. She told me this fall that she was planning to sit for the February MA bar exam. Because I knew that she had failed it before, I encouraged her to take the DC bar instead. When I made this suggestion, I explained that I thought she deserved to let herself take the lower hanging fruit and that she could always take the MA bar again in the future. She and I both live in DC and she works as a law clerk for a federal contractor. She said at the time that it was her dream to be on the MA bar. I suspected that she failed when I saw her this week at a happy hour and asked her what was going on. She said a little to emphatically that NOTHING was going on and that she had nothing to report. I found out she failed by checking the results online.

    Should I give her my condolences or should I wait for her to tell me what happened? I don’t want her to find out that I know and think that I was too heartless to say anything to her. I thought it was pretty common for people to check bar results when they know someone taking the bar, but maybe I am wrong. In case this effects what advice you might have- I work as a trial lawyer and passed the bar on the first try in 2005, and she has been trying to pass this bar since she graduated lawschool in 2004.

    Thoughts?

    • Eponine

      Don’t say anything to her. I suspect most of us check online to see if people we know passed the bar (I’ve done this), but it’s nosy and it’s not your place to say anything to her if she hasn’t told you. Obviously she doesn’t want to discuss it and you need to respect that.

    • Shayna

      Say nothing – it’s obviously a source of some enbarrassment to her, and asking will only humiliate her further.

      I say this having been in your shoes as a teenager – My best friend and I took the SATs together, and she saw my score (my mom had left it out on the kitchen table). I then asked her how she did, which was a mistake. Apparently I scored approximately twice of what she scored (yes, this was the old 1600 scale)… She was so humiliated by the difference that she spent the next few years making passive aggressive remarks on the topic, which was why I deliberately ended the friendship about three years later.

    • Anonymous 1

      Keep quiet about it IMHO. If she wanted you to know, she’d tell you. Good luck, she’s lucky to have a friend who cares.

    • MelD

      I am with others who say that you shouldn’t say anything. I have a friend who failed multiple times, partially because the test anxiety is overwhelming. I have to imagine that anxiety is a factor for most people who fail multiple times, and that mentioning the bar exam or giving unsolicited advice is only going to make it that much worse.

    • Friend

      Thanks, ladies. I’ll take your advice and won’t say anything until Natalia brings it up.

    • divaliscious11

      I’d say nothing….until she asks. At this point she is probably psyching herself out of the bar, and if MA is anything like the state where I clerked, she may need permission from the highest court to take the test again.

      If she does ask your guidance, I’d advise that she strongly look at how she is preparing for the test. The bar is an endurance test, but its not rocket science… She should also take a break and spend a season where she is NOT stressing out about the bar….

    • A Different Liz

      This was supposed to be a reply to the question of whether I wear my Merrell’s with socks. I don’t.

  25. Elysian

    I had a question about clothing quality. I recently graduated from college (2 years ago) and only when I graduated and got a “real job” did I start buying clothes of any kind of quality at all. People kept telling me it was worth the higher price because they would last longer, but I don’t find that to be true at all – especially with shirts. My higher quality shirts seem to wear down even faster than the ones I use to get at Target, etc. This is especially true in the underarm of the shirt. I’ve tried different deodorants, etc but the underarms of my shirts always pill and get a weird texture after several washes and wears. Is this normal? Is there a way to prevent it? And how long should I expect “higher quality” clothes to last?

    • 3L Sarah

      I’ve found that the way people wash/dry clothes can wear them out really fast. This is especially true of the “higher quality” clothes that are made with fabrics that aren’t made to be machine-washed and dried 3x a week. Do you have an upright washer? If so, wash your clothes in cold or warm water with the detergent that’s made for cold water. Also, your clothes will last a LOT longer if you don’t dry them in the dryer, but hang them out to dry. For my button-down shirts, dress pants, skirts and jeans, I hang them up on my shower rod. For regular cotton shirts, I have a drying rack that I hang them on. For things like underwear, gym clothes, pajamas, etc, I wash and dry them in the machines – I don’t care what they look like. Dryers and upright washers put an amazing amount of strain on clothes and cause them to wear a lot faster than they should. Yeah, air-drying requires me to iron. But I can definitely tell the difference between the shirts that I’ve only air-dried (still look new) and the shirts that I’ve had to stick in the dryer once or twice in a rush (faded and get that white fuzz on top of the color). If you set your clothes out in the morning, most of them will be dry enough to hang up (just a little damp in the seams at the shoulders) by the time you go to bed.

      Not to mention, running your dryer for half the time also saves the environment!

      And yes, when I didn’t have a washer/dryer in my apartment, I would haul my wet clothes 1/2 mile back to my apartment to hang them on the drying rack. So this isn’t a new phenom based on convenience.

      • A.

        Ditto all this. My husband does not dry any of his work clothes (or most of his casual stuff) in the dryer and his clothes last a long time. He has to do more ironing, but he doesn’t mind it. I use the dryer more, but for almost all work pants, shirts and skirts (and all jeans), I hang to dry. One tip – with many fabrics, you can hang them to dry and then if you run out of time to iron them, throw them in the dryer for about 10 minutes with a damp rag and they will come out fine. There’s a big wear-and-tear difference tumbling a completely dry item for 10 minutes and tumbling something completely wet, for an hour or more. Drying in a dryer shrinks and pills fabric, strains seams and sets stains – it’s convenient, but not all that good for clothes. There was just an article in Real Simple about clothing care and it said you can generally wear most things at least 2-3 times, if you air them out between wearings. Dry cleaning is particularly hard on clothes and should only be done every 5-6 wearings. You will save a ton of money, both on laundering/dry cleaning and on replacing clothes, if you hang things up after you wear them, and let them air out. Anything wrinkled should be steamed or pressed and anything stained obviously needs stain-removal or washing before re-wearing, but it’s surprising how many pieces are re-wearable with minimal care between wearings. Hope this helps :)

        • Elysian

          Thanks for the advice – I never put my work clothes in the dryer, so whatever is wearing them out quickly, that’s not it (I never have – when I have to pay per cycle, it saves me 1.75 to not dry them!) .

          While I rewear pants and things like that between washings, but I can’t imagine rewearing shirts. Sometimes I’ll wear a cardigan twice if I’m in a pinch, but it still feels gross and smelly… maybe I sweat more than most people in clothes, but I feel like I have to wash shirts before I can wear them again.

          • 3L Sarah

            Can you wear an undershirt under your shirts? Not necessarily a tank top, but a thin t-shirt under your shirts. Especially if you only wear the shirt for the time you’re at work and take it off and hang it up as soon as you get home, it should still be OK. If it makes you feel better, let it air out for a couple days before you wear it again.

          • anon

            Use Certain Dri for your underarms (and any other places as necessary), and you’ll sweat a lot less. Could also even look into those liner things that people sometimes attach to the underarm-area of suits. You use them once then throw them out, it’s like a fabric liner that sticks on.

            I generally try to get 2 wears out of shirts; 3 or more for cardigans where I’m wearing another shirt underneath.

          • Delta Sierra

            ‘dress shields’ > Google > shopping. Lots to choose from.

            On hot days I sometimes put babywipes and travel-size anti-perspirant in my bag.

          • anon

            I agree with Certain Dri. I am a profuse sweat-er, and that stuff helps me keep my clothes longer (although I still wash them after every wear)

    • Anonymous 1

      Funny timing on this question!

      I’m wondering where to find quality clothes that last beyond a single season — because the stuff I’ve splurged on just isn’t holding up.

      Splurged on an Armani skirt which has held up a bit better than most Banana Republic items, but wasn’t worth the extra cost.

      Have heard good things about Theory so might try a skirt ($200, unlined, WTH?!) from that line.

      Not thrilled with LOFT, Crew, or Banana lately, that’s for sure!

      • bluebook

        Theory wool holds up AMAZINGLY well. I hand-wash it most of the time (woolite + air dry) and sometimes have taken it to the dry cleaner but I’ve had Theory pants I bought second-hand (though in EXCELLENT condition) for 4 years now and they look like new. I have gotten used to and even like that they’re unlined now, it has allowed me to wear them in 85F and feel just fine. If they ever have sales, I snap up their wool stuff like a mad-woman. Don’t have experience with non-wool though.

        • mm

          Agreed–Theory lasts. I’ve had good luck with their stretch cotton pants and cotton blouses in addition to wool items. I tend to dry clean most things due to laziness, but haven’t noticed an effect on the clothing’s longevity. I know others have expressed issues with the lack of lining in the pants, but I agree with bluebook–they are more seasonless that way.

    • KZ

      I have noticed things I’ve bought recently haven’t been holding up as well. I have kind of assumed it was my washer/dryer (I’m in an apartment building, and the ones they have seem to be particularly harsh on my clothes), but lately I’ve noticed even things I always hang dry have started pilling. I suppose it’s possible clothing quality has just gotten worse at the stores I shop at? At any rate, I tend not to buy expensive shirts for this reason–I’m not entirely convinced you can tell that much of a difference if you’re careful to get a good fit, and I don’t feel like I wasted money when I have to replace it in two years.

    • KZ

      speaking of making clothes last longer, does anyone have a trick for getting makeup off silk clothes without taking them to the dry cleaner? No matter how hard I try, I always seem to manage to get makeup on one of my silk shells when I’m taking it off, and I’m tired of having to get it dry-cleaned every time. I tried spot cleaning it with water one time, and that was a disaster because it left a water ring, and then dry cleaning person scolded me for trying when I took it in :-(

      • Anonymous 1

        Have you tried putting on one of those shower cap kind-of-things they hand out in the change rooms of Talbots? It covers your face and hair to prevent smudges.

        • KZ

          I can’t find them anywhere! I used to have one I took from the Talbot’s dressing room, but I lost it and that’s the only place I’ve ever seen them. I want to order a bunch of them, but can’t seem to find them (or I can’t really figure out what they’re officially named, which may be why I can’t find them)

          • Delta Sierra

            Big square silk scarf works, too. Or this:

            mileskimball.com/MilesKimball/Shopping/ProductDetail.aspx?CID=Apparel%2fPersonal+Care&SCID=Beauty%2fGrooming&ProductID=0000003355

            Somehow I got on their mailing list for catalogs. Fascinating.

          • KZ

            also, that website might be the most random collection of items ever. it’s like something my grandmother would love, and yet also has a ton of random things I need (earring backs, for example. I’m constantly losing them, and here I can buy a ton of different types).

      • Miriam

        Maybe you could try a facial wipe to take off your makeup before you take off the shell. I guess that would only work if it was at the end of the day.

    • Eponine

      I’ve found that clear deodorants cause more discoloration than white ones. I have been using Dove deodorant for a while and haven’t noticed any discoloration. Mitchum extra strength clear basically bleached all of my shirts.

      I don’t think higher quality clothes necessarily last longer, but they do tend to look nicer and fit better, which makes for a more professional look. But you should buy the clothes you like best, and so long as they’re work appropriate, don’t worry about what others think of the brand you’re wearing.

      • MelD

        Ugh- sorry, somehow pressed submit before I was finished. I think a lot of higher end clothing doesn’t have pricing that reflects the quality anymore. Most brands seem to be a lot lower quality than they were even 5-10 years ago. I understand how you feel about having wash shirts after every wear. There’s just no way to make my shirts go for more than one wear from about May-October because I sweat too much on the commute.

    • Louise

      Personally, I don’t care for it. It just seems…off. I think if you want something lacy, you could probably find a really lovely lace blouse to wear with a skirt you already have?

      I’ve read here on Corporette that many Talbots items are boxy, so I’d be concerned that it is being pinned back on the model.

    • KZ

      not a fan because of the fact the slip underneath is several inches shorter than the hem, which to me makes it look a bit weird. Or maybe it’s the all-over lace that is a bit much for me. I agree with the above on trying to find a lace blouse to wear with a skirt.

      • lawyergrrl

        Also not a fan. Sorry. What kind of evening event are you shopping for? We might be able to suggest alternative looks. L

      • Miriam

        I agree about the length of the hem. I think it would look better if it was even and it just looks off.

    • bluebook

      Have to say also not a fan and I’ve actually had great luck with Talbots (and I’m an hourglass figure). I recommend the lace blouse / plain skirt idea if you’re looking for lace. Or let us know what kind of evening wear you’re looking for and I’m sure someone can recommend something :)

  27. Annonymous

    Does anyone have a great gift idea for a friend who is graduating from Law School and going to be working as a Patent Lawyer?

    • Cat

      What tone of gift are you looking for? A “cute” idea might be a package of A4 paper (I think that’s what patents are printed on instead of 8.5 x 11?) and dinner out… otherwise, standard lawyer gifts apply.

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