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Our weekend recommendation this week are these gorgeous blue patent shoes, part of Shoes.com's sale going on right now. (Take an extra 25% off sale items; ends 6/14.) In addition to being one of our favorite colors, we think cobalt would be great paired with a little black dress (or white dress, or purple dress, or navy dress…) for a special dinner date. We also like the way the criss-cross dips in the front — it's more flattering than a straight Mary Jane band. Lovely! These were $287, marked to $143.50, price drops to $107.62 with code 25sale. KORS MICHAEL KORS Women's Naughty Shoes (Cobalt Patent)
Kat
Can anyone recommend some good sources for really lovely silk pajamas? TIA!
RKT
Wintersilks usually has some, year round. I don’t know if they would be too pedestrian. http://www.wintersilks.com
SF Bay Associate
http://shop.nordstrom.com/S/2991831/0~2376776~2374327~2373578~6010735?mediumthumbnail=Y&origin=category&searchtype=&pbo=6010735&P=1
Legally Brunette
I bought the Shimera cotton pajamas and returned them recently. The neckline was REALLY low and the shirt was way too long. The silk pajamas look like the same style.
SF Bay Associate
Also, are the pjs for ladies or gentlemen?
Anonymous
Red Envelope has several nice options . . .
http://www.redenvelope.com/womens-clothing-rffap
G
Mary Green. I don’t own their PJs, but love their underwear and camis, which seem very durable and well-made.
http://www.marygreen.com/department/robes-and-pajamas-10011.cfm
recent grad
Seconded. Have a silk nightie from them (that I got at a little locally owned lingerie store for far cheaper) and I LOVE it.
anon
If you are up for a real splurge, my absolute favorite are Shanghai Tang. Beautifully made from their in-house specially woven silk. They are hong kong based, but have small stores in NYC and LA, as well as a good online store. I have two pairs, and my idea of heaven is to get up on a weekend morning, take a leisurely bath, and hang around wearing them until absolutely forced to go outside. Note, if you have a friend traveling to HK anytime soon, they are a good deal cheaper there. I think there is a a duty free shanghai tang in the airport.
http://www.shanghaitang.com/shop/Women/SLEEPWEAR/Womens-Eight-Fairies-Silk-Pyjamas.html?page=-1&po=5&c=216&u=/Women/SLEEPWEAR/
S
I’m interning with a consulting firm this summer and there’s going to be a retreat for all the summers at a hot, beachy destination. There will be watersports/ snorkeling activites and possibly nightlife outings. I want to be comfortable and dress more casually, but also want to be careful to dress appropriately. Should I shop for a more conservative one-piece (I currently own only bikinis)? Any other advice or guidelines?
lawDJ
I’d say you want a conservative tankini or two instead of a one-piece. You get the same look and coverage but it’s a lot more convenient for you. Make sure it’s conservatively cut on top, whatever that means for you (meaning that it has enough coverage especially in sports-type situations).
Separately, I’m always surprised by these kinds of summer events. I’ve participated in a few of them, but it always struck me as uncomfortable.
Shayna
Agree with both the recommendation and general level of discomfort… I have a division softball game/barbecue next Friday that I’m already twitching about (I am sooo not interested in playing!) – and that’s on our campus!
Amber
I am more comfortable in a one-piece, so I’d go with that. I’d think that you could probably do a modest two-piece, though. One thing I would be concerned about with beach sports is the possibility of a wardrobe malfunction and some sort of exposure. There are plenty of two-piece swimsuits out there that would lessen that concern, I’d think, especially sportier ones.
I think there was a pretty in-depth comments thread about this a few months ago, but I don’t remember if the actual main post was related to swimsuits or not. I’m sure a lot of people will respond, but if you wanted even more perspectives, you might be able to find that thread with a little poking around.
Erin
Who’s going to be there? If just your peer group, I think a modest (not boobalicious) two-piece is fine. If older staff will be there, I’d go for a one-piece or tankini – you really don’t want senior men looking at your tummy, you know? I’d throw a sundress over it, too, when you’re not in the water. Also – not sure what watersports you’re planning, but make sure you get a swimsuit that can’t be easily dislodged. I’d wear a one-piece just because it’s much less likely to come off when you don’t want it to.
For the non-water activities, I think sundresses, linen trousers, tanks and tunics are probably the best bet. Even if there are nightlife outings, stay away from stereotypical “club” attire – no miniskirts or cleavage for sure. I’d go for a cocktail dress instead.
MPC
Maybe you could pick up a rash guard to wear over a suit you already own? That way you can go modest if you feel more comfortable that way, or take it off if it turns out that bikinis are de rigueur. They can be useful for watersports too.
Mostly, though, I’m suggesting this because I’m in love with this rash guard, can’t afford it and hope that someone else can: http://www.openingceremony.us/products.asp?menuid=2&catid=33&productid=19451
K
That is majorly cute, but *wow* $150 for a rash guard? (Yes, thank you for noticing, I AM cheap!)
Louise
That’s not being cheap. That’s being totally reasonable. $150 for a polyester beach t-shirt is outrageous. And it isn’t even long-sleeved, which is what you need for sun and jellyfish protection. Sheesh.
But on a style note, I do like the color-blocking on the shirt. Way better than some trendy surf-board company’s logo.
michelle
Mondrian rash guard! Awesome!!! But yes, never spend that much on it in a billion years.
Shayna
Lands End has far less expensive ones (although not in this pattern… but I’m not sure I’d want to look like a Cubist painting on the beach)
Anon
Lands End Canvas actually has some pretty cute suits that you can mix and match the tops and bottoms to find something cute but appropriate. I really recommend checking them out.
associate
I have the same situation coming up in a few weeks, so I feel your pain. I set out determined to find a conservative one piece, even though I haven’t worn one since grade school. So many one piece suits have deep-v’s and are just as revealing. I have a long torso, so I decided to go with what I’m comfortable in– a “conservative” two piece (square top and full coverage bottoms).
I like the rash guard idea also…
Cat
check out J.Crew for one-pieces — they have lots of different styles this year. Many with modest (if any) cleavage — I remember one at least that goes straight across the top (but has a detachable strap if you’re doing water “activities” to make sure it stays up).
Anon
Whether or not J.Crew will work for you depends on your definition of cleavage-baring. I don’t think any of this year’s one-piece styles have modest cleavage but rather very obvious on-display cleavage – after all, a bandeau style neckline on a bathing suit literally hits right above your b**bs, not an inch or two below your neck…which means everyone to the side of you and taller than you gets a cleavage view, not to mention you can’t exactly participate in any lake-side sports.
Just my two cents. I’m a modest dresser and finding a cute bathing suit is an arduous task!
Suze
If it is really geared toward athletic stuff, what about the little trunk-y board shorts thing – I know it sounds weird, but I’ve seen a few cute looks (here in Fla) with the sort of surfer-y shorts and a rash guard or modest two piece top…just google ‘women’s swim trunks’ and you will see a few options. Definitely solves a host of issues if you can work the look!
KelliJ
I had to do one of those outtings for a work about 5 years ago. I was one of very few women. I’m a skinny, very well endowed blonde (who does not like to flaunt what she’s got) and OMG was I uncomfortable. I wore a dark t-shirt over my suit. Check out Athleta (owned by Gap) on line. They offer swim suits in various sizes for various activities. They have cute rash guards as well. I also like a lot of their dresses and skirts. Really cute for summer outtings.
Emily
I second Athleta – I noticed lots of suits with permanent straps (ever had a detachable strap detach unexpectedly? Not fun) that were not frumpy, but still seemed pretty conservative. Also, tons of cover-ups that you’d intentionally wear to look good, not just to hide what doesn’t look good.
Shayna
And it’s hard to imagine that detachable straps are really going to be of much use/support!
Amy
Re: detachable straps. Been there, done that. Unfortunately the “strap failure” happened during a swimming excursion with my then-boyfriend’s (now-husband) dad, grandfather, and two best friends. Never again.
MelD
Anyone wear Athleta suits with a smaller band size/larger cup size? I was excited to go on there and find something that might fit me (32D) but the reviews of the suits in that size all seemed to state that the cups were too small or didn’t offer any support. One of my main issues is that anything that fits me around the midsection is usually way too tight/revealing in the chest- e.g. the tank part of the tankini is very loose and floats up in the water.
L from Oz
Not Athleta, but have a look at Bravissimo. I have three suits from there (all one piece, but I swim laps) that are extremely comfortable, and they do tankinis etc by cup size too.
(I wear 32F/34E, so I feel your pain!)
K
I just got a tankini from athleta and it is great, covservatively cut and won’t come off. I got the long torso, def get that if you are tall (I am 5.8) or have proportionately long torso.
Anon
I had one of these a few summers ago. I was so uncomfortable going into it, but it was actually fine. Everyone wore their bikinis and once we were on the boats no one noticed anyone what anyone was wearing. I myself would also bring a rashguard because I burn like crazy and I usually need the extra coverage, but it certainly wasn’t necessary.
Try to just appreciate the fact that you are getting a beach vacation on the firm’s dime!
LP7
Do a quick search on Corporette for this topic. We discussed it in significant detail previously. If there was a general consensus, I think it was to stay covered unless it would be awkward not to be in a bathing suit and to make sure your bathing suit is conservative/doesn’t stand out. On my summer retreat, while it was on a private beach island, no one ever really went swimming (who wants to see senior partners in swimsuits?). If you did want to lay out, you found a nice isolated spot with a few of your co-workers/friends. We also rented mopeds, played golf, volleyball, went hiking, etc. Best to be prepared for all situations.
S
Thanks ladies! I will keep all these in mind when I shop this weekend. Hope I find something flattering yet modest and affordable all at the same time. Wish me luck!!
E
Also look at Lands End. All sorts of options, from very traditional to sporty, but nothing too revealing, and bathing suits with underwire, if you lean toward the busty
KZ
and some their swimwear is on sale until tuesday, online and in stores.
AC
Help, I spilled coffee on my new white cotton blend skirt.
http://www.whitehouseblackmarket.com/store/browse/product.jsp?maxRec=21&pageId=2&viewAll=&productId=570002582&prd=Ruched+White+Pencil+Skirt&subCatId=cat1170002&color=&fromSearch=&inSeam=&posId=3&catId=cat210002&cat=Dresses++Skirts+Skirts&onSale=&colorFamily=&maxPg=2&size=
Do I try hand washing in cold or do I run to the dry cleaner? I really love this skirt.
Erin
Oxyclean works great for me. I think it’d be fine to bleach this skirt, too.
Chicago K
Love the skirt!
Honestly, I’d probably throw it in the washer on gentle or take it to the cleaners, but I personally have a horrible time washing clothes by hand. I either don’t wash them well enough to make them smell clean, or I overwash and the thing looks mishapen and awful. I actually ruined a cashmere shell from J. Crew washing it by hand per the instructions on the label…the color turned all weird and so did the finish on the fabric. I left it to soak for a few days, which I thought was probably me just being dumb, but I have since seen recommendations to let things soak in order to get them cleaner.
Shayna
Bleach it when washing after pretreating w/ your stain stick/remover of choice (that’s the good thing about white!)
Delta Sierra
Oxyclean. Once got red wine out of a white sofa with it.
KZ
wash with oxyclean. you may even be able to throw it in the washer on gentle rather than handwashing. if it says machine wash, i almost always take the chance and do gentle cycle. I haven’t irreparably destroyed anything yet
anon
baby wipes are great for stain removal
AnneCatherine
Babby wipes are great 90 percent of the time. They take out most stains. The problem is, they also sometimes remove dye and leave a bleached/lighters spot on some fabrics. So that is a huge gamble. But on fabrics that you have used them on before, and therefore know they will not ruin, they are great as they remove almost any stain.
AnneCatherine
And I meant “baby,” not “babby”!
Experienced
All good advice (I’d likely do Oxyclean). Whatever you do -do it quick! Urgency is the key with stains.
TK1
Be careful when using bleach on white items, sometimes they are “dyed” white, and if you bleach them they end up slightly yellow. Definitely don’t spot bleach, I ruined a white sweater this way.
Lucy
The most important thing with stain removal, beyond the above, do not put the stained item in the dryer or iron it before seeing if you’ve gotten it all out.
Heat sets the stain — so I would wash in cold water & then line dry. If the stain hasn’t gotten out, I would take to the cleaner.
Ru
Those shoes are beautiful.
DC Lawyer
I’ve been waiting for this thread so I can post a PSA.
I went to a law/policy conference this morning. As at most conferences, there were quite a few interns and students present. All of the male interns/students managed to dress like adults – slacks, button-front, maybe a tie and jacket. Similarly, all of the professionals were in suits, cardigans/skirts or, in some cases, their national dress (lots of Africans were present). What were nearly all of the women interns/students wearing? Sundresses, gladiator sandals, chunky wedge sandals, you name it. Visible bra straps abounded. The female intern carrying the microphone during Q&A wore a leopard-print tank top, multiple earrings and four-inch heels (her male cohort wore a gray suit). A young lady seated in the row in front of me was dressed reasonably, but she *took her shoes off* and left them off for about an hour.
Ladies, PSA: Do not do dress like this at professional events, even if it’s somehow OK in your office or at your university. A sundress is not professional attire, even on Friday. Jersey is not an appropriate fabric for a business dress, even in June. No one should ever, ever see your bra straps or your cleavage. Any shoe that can be construed as trendy is not a business shoe. And no one wants to see your blisters or your bare feet, ever, period.
If you think it’s unfair, fine, become enormously successful and go work at Quinn Emanuel or Facebook or somewhere without a dress code. Start your own company. But even Quinn Emanuel litigators wear a suit to court, and more importantly, they got to become successful litigators because they knew how to dress and act and perform and exercise good judgment. Your sundress tells me as much about your judgment as it does about the color of your bra.
The kicker? Barefoot girl later tried to talk me up and network her way into future job opportunities.
I think we owe it to younger women to let them know that this is not ok. Women aren’t going to advance much in the workplace if they don’t get hired because they dress like college sophomores.
OK, rant over.
Ru
You bring up a very good point. I recently headed back to my alma mater as a guest judge (amongst others) to evaluate students presentations for their senior design projects. Our scores are added on as extra credit to their grades. Most of the female students were dressed appropriately but one stood out to me – she was dressed very well in a blue button-down/front shirt and a black pencil skirt that covered her knees with black heels. Her long jangly earrings that sparkled, shimmered and jingled every time she moved completely distracted me from everything else. I love loud flashy jewelry but it totally detracted from her very professional presentation, which I actually wrote down in her evaluation (the professor passes the comments along to the students). I was equally critical of other students (like the male student who showed up in a white button-down, navy tie, blue jeans and cowboy boots – oh engineers!).
Amber
I’m sad that this, especially the bra strap thing, needed to be said.
KelliJ
I’m glad you brought this up. I went to the annual dinner for my local women’s business network last week and was shocked by how some of the women dressed. It’s a pricey event held at a local private country club. We raise money for scholarships for women going back to school later in life. This was the night we award the scholarships. We had a lot of women in suits and dresses, but I also saw lots of tank tops with the bra straps showing and way too casual sun dresses. These were not interns. These were women business owners (insurance, real estate, accounting, law, etc.)
You are exactly right. How can women be taken seriously in the workplace if they dress like they’re going shopping or hanging out with friends? Maybe we should all start calling the career service departments at our alma maters (undergrad and graduate schools) and tell them that they need to speak with their female students about how to dress appropriately for the work place.
DC Lawyer
I emailed this story to the DC intern blog ( http://dcinterns.blogspot.com/ ) in the hopes that some will read it and learn!
anon23
I was recently at a witness interview and opposing counsel was wearing a sundress and flip flops.
DC Lawyer
Wow. Just, wow. I imagine the witness was super-intimidated by that (or if she was your opponent’s witness, super-impressed). What was she thinking?
alex
Personally I think the lawyer in question should probably have been wearing a suit. But…there might be something to disarming the witness, making them think you are not a threat, then maybe getting them to talk more than they would have otherwise.
I was a paralegal before I went to law school and I have read a lot of depo transcripts….it seems in general when the lawyer asking the questions is friendly and complimentary, the witnesses give more details. I’d love to hear other attorney’s thoughts on this.
anon23
It was her witness but someone who was afraid of the system and not interested in the case so it may have been a good tactic.
divaliscious11
I mostly agree, except about the jersey dresses, if its good quality and constructed well, it absolutely can be business appropriate.
DC Lawyer
Hmm. You’re probably right. I notice a lot of very thin, unstructured ones. These are especially inappropriate when worn without a slip – I have seen, multiple times, dresses of this fabric clinging so as to reveal the very graphic outline of a woman’s private parts. Not cool at all.
Shayna
I agree — We have interns and younger women and men working in my office… the women who dress appropriately get a lot more respect than the woman who needs to buy her shirts a size larger so the rest of us don’t see the outline of her bra through her shirt every day…
Louise
I think these sorts of real-world experience rants are very important here. Young women and students who are visiting Corporette for the first time need to see that their clothing choices really do influence how they are perceived.
Ru, I’m very glad that you had a way to critique the well-dressed but poorly accessorized student that you observed. If we don’t teach them, how will the young women learn how to play the game?
There’s only so much Kat can do in the main posts, but the words and reactions of the commenters are very powerful.
Amy
I was at a very large, very formal business luncheon a couple of weeks ago and the female emcee of the event was wearing a spaghetti-strap leopard-print top (with no jacket, arms were bare) and a midthigh-height tight black miniskirt, with sky-high gladiator sandals, no hose. She was introduced as being an upper-level manager in the local SBA. Most of the women in the audience – including her subordinates – were in suits. My colleagues and I, and the other women at our table, were all pretty appalled. She was very appropriately dressed for clubbing or a dinner out with her husband, not so much for a formal business lunch. I am not sure where some people are getting their professional-dress advice, but it’s not Corporette!
CJ in CA
Not that it’s an excuse per se, but as a college student I owned one suit, that was cheap quality, and unflattering, and I did not feel comfortable or confident in it. I think all the young men have suits because since childhood the “dress up” outfit for a man (prom, interview, easter Sunday, weddings, funerals etc.) is always a suit. If these ladies have had fewer professional experiences it’s more likely they have “business casual outfits” for day to day work, prom dresses, party dresses, day dresses, evening dresses, etc and have always associated “dress nice” with a dress.
So, if you teach high school, college, law school, business school, or deal with interns, take a minute to educate them. As a trial team leader I always sent out an e-mail suggesting fit guidelines, explaining what would be expected, and why, while saying, “I’m sure you already know this.”
DC Lawyer
I would just add to this that I don’t expect interns to wear a suit, unless there’s an explicit business formal dress code. I assume most only own one suit, if they own one at all. But they should own something appropriate for business – a pencil skirt, cardigan and non-sandal dress shoes is fine.
KelliJ
I have to admit that one of my biggest pet peaves is the bra straps showing. That really bothers me. I know “underwear as outerwear” is a trend, but there’s a limit. These young ladies should have shirts that at the very least cover their undergarments.
AnneCatherine
Okay, I’ve been seeing posts like this for the last week (I guess it’s the summer associates coming back into our lives that have occasioned this) and I’m probably just a total B but here is my take (and if you disagree with my take, that is fine, because part of why I’m stating my take/viewpoint is so that students know that, wrongly or rightly, these opinions are out there):
Firstly, women DO have it harder than men in terms of wardrobe choices. More is not more. We have soooo many choices that it can be overwhelming for us. When I think of what I used to wear, as a young person to work, I cringe. Some of it was unfashionable, dowdy, and just crazy. Some of it was probably too “revealing,” more as a function of how I am built, than of any design on my part to be titillating. So there is that. It is hard to know how to dress. There is no uniform; over-abundance of choices leads to confusion; and that leads to inappropriate looks.
BUT, and here is where I may get controversial, and this is only my opinion, but here it is: women are judged on their appearances to a great extent. Some young women have absorbed this (well, all have) and some young women appear, to me, to then dress “cute” (their idea of cute), hoping to . . . impress? Score points? I don’t know, I feel first years and SAs in general watch too much lawyer TV. So, for instance, a young woman SA told me a few years ago that she was attractive and she therefore had an advantage and she’d be crazy not to use it and she could sort of Jedi mind trick people with her hotness. “Just do your work!” I wanted to shout at her. So there is that subset of women, hoping to distract others with their cuteness. Then there is the subset that is so distracted by their OWN cuteness that they forget work is not a fashion show. Then there is the much larger, I think, set of women who honestly are trying but (a) have little money (b) have even less of an idea where, besides TV, to look for inspiration (c) honestly think Forever 21 is a work option, and honestly may not have heard of Ann Taylor (I had no idea what Ann Taylor was–I vaguely knew it was “for rich old ladies”– until I met a “rich” girl in law school; my upbringing ran way more to Sears, which actually is fine with career wear as far as it goes, but most young girls with a Sears budget these days have not even heard of Sears and they have been left with Charlotte Russe and Forever 21 and Hollister to fill the void.) Which is all to say, I totally agree, but I have no idea what to do.
Taylor
Two women in my office went to meet an expert for opposing counsel and he called them girls and expressed surprise that they were lawyers. This was their fault due to their trendy clothes and did not help their client. Even if you are not wearing a suit to meet a witness, you can wear slacks, a button down, and flat shoes and look like a lawyer.
I once stopped a lawyer who was going down the hall in our office to meet an older male attorney who was taking over a case just to tell her to pull up her jeans so that her thong did not show.
Men: black sneakers are not dress shoes once you are out of middle school.
All that said, it is difficult to find clothes in a conservative cut that do not scream “old lady.”
MelD
Why do flats make you look more like a lawyer? I rarely wear flats with my pants because I don’t want to have to hem them all to flats length. I don’t think I’m less professional for wearing my slacks with heels.
Taylor
MelD – I wasn’t suggesting that heels are wrong. I was suggesting that flats are comfortable and an obvious alternative to sexy sandals that are not appropriate for professional environments.
divaliscious11
I’m sorry but even if I am dressed like Dora the Explorer, it is not appropriate, nor my fault if some man calls me a girl and is surprised that I am a lawyer, especially if I am coming to his office as a lawyer to meet with him…
No excuse for the thong flasher
Anon
Here’s the thing about “no uniform for women” though – there is one. A button down with a pencil skirt, or a button down with a pair of trousers, or a button down with a suit. Business casual or business formal – done. We just have so many other options that are maybe-sortof-almost always-but not always okay for business casual that it becomes easy to get “bored” with the uniform and want to wear something else.
But it is also really easy to mess that something else up and end up on the um, not work appropriate side of the grey area.
I remember reading an article once where Jennifer Garner was quoted as saying she wished there was a uniform for life. I completely agree and I’ve sort of made my own. Work? Button down with a pencil skirt or trousers (very, very seldom need a suit). Is it a little boring? Maybe 5% of the time I think it is boring. 95% of the time I’m happy I didn’t waste too much time trying to figure out a hipper, trendier, cuter, or whatever else other adjective alternative to what I know is safe and work appropriate. And, flattering! I look GOOD :)
MelD
I disagree because the button front shirt is not a look that flatters or works at all on some women’s figures. I look horrible in button front shirts because there aren’t any out there that flatter my figure. Trust me, I’ve tried multiple brands with no luck. I find that a sweater set or the bottom part of a twinset under a blazer work much better for me than a button front shirt because there is more give in the bust area without the awful gapping.
Anon
I see your point, and my response is that I completely understand and your “uniform” is therefore slightly different – suit with a shell, or pencil skirt (or a-line) or trousers with a shell or a twinset. Done and done. Really, my point is just generally that women all have a go-to outfit for when they want to look very polished and professional but most women seem to find it boring and think that they should mix it up and wear other things throughout the week. If you are so inclined, and are confident that you’re still work-appropriate with every choice, then I applaud you and go for it. I understand that there are many women out there much more fashion-conscious than myself. But it just bugs me when women bemoan how easy men have it – we have it just as easy, as long as we don’t get sucked into the trap of thinking it has to be more complicated.
Biglaw Refugee
I agree with MelD that the “uniform” looks totally wrong on some. Yes, we can each have our own “uniform” that is only slightly different and flatters us more.
But once we’ve decided on it, we have to search high and low to find enough pieces of the uniform that aren’t trendied up. Some years, there are no A-line skirts to be found – if that’s your uniform, you’re screwed.
Whereas men have one uniform that works pretty well on all of them, and they can walk into many stores and find 100 variations of each part of the uniform. It really is just way easier for men.
S
I like that thought. I sometimes gravitate to the same old dress uniform too, guess I should stop feeling like I’m not ‘trying’ if I stick to my uniform which is like yours, a shirt and pencil skirt!
Chicago K
Agree. What do you think of all the studies that show people are more likely to hire or promote someone they think is attractive?
Ariella
I am fascinated by those studies. I do not consider myself “hot” in any way; probably “cute” is a better descriptor for my facial appearance. I am also plus-sized, and there are studies out there saying that fat women are much less likely to be hired than their thin counterparts. So I always wonder what my colleagues think of me since I am not “hot” and am overweight.
Honestly, my work is very good and I think that’s what made it easier for me to get along in my practice area. In addition, although I tend to be socially awkward, I CAN be more “normal” when it’s called for.
All in all, I think those studies are true. But I also think that once someone gets to know you, how you look matters much less than your performance. As a corollary to that, though, I think they’d rather have an attractive, thin woman who ALSO performs well. That’s the gold standard, I guess.
Chicago K
I think they are probably true too, but find it interesting as I’ve personally never worked anywhere with a CEO or man/woman in a very high leadership positions who also has model good looks.
So I would agree that once people get to know you, they put more emphasis on your work than your looks. I think it’s also extremely important to fit into the culture of the organization.
CJ in CA
Also overweight here, which I think is more harmful than just not having an attractive face work impression wise. I think the thoughts are : Lazy, sloppy, messy, lacks self discipline. IMO those are much worse assumptions for someone to have about you at work than just thinking you seem mean or standoffish which I think is the “ugly” face prejudice.
BUT, it’s much easier to prove you are not lazy, not sloppy, and not lacking in discipline through a resume or interview or work than it is to prove that you aren’t mean or snobby in the same situations. Also, there are a few bigger professional women in culture (Cameron Manheim on the practice, judges and lawyers in Law and Order, etc.) that say fat women can be successful at work, where we haven’t got that for unattractive people.
Amy
Those studies dealt with “attractiveness,” not “hotness.” Being attractive is different from being extremely beautiful or “hot.” The other thing to understand is that what people indicate in a theoretical study, and what they do in real life, where they can be sued or judged as being shallow by their peers and , are two different things. The most successful women I know are nice-looking and put-together but not beautiful. Look at the Forbest list of the most powerful women some year – they’re all at least generically attractive, but very few are stunning, or “hot.” Mainly because careers last a long time, it takes awhile to get to the top, and hot doesn’t last.
As far as some women trying to use their attractiveness as a career leg-up. I have been around awhile and there’s another reason some women emphasize their hotness at work or otherwise around successful men – they are not looking to climb the ladder themselves. They are looking to marry a rich guy. I had an intern several years ago who I had to counsel several times about the appropriateness of her dress. In a separate conversation right at the end of her internship, she finally told me her goal in life was not to work hard and achieve in her own career, but to find a successful guy who would “take care of her” and marry him. A lot of women don’t admit this – sometimes not even to themselves – but it’s a factor. And it’s something I think about every time I see a young woman in business who spends more time flirting than working, and won’t put on appropriate clothes despite being advised to do so multiple times.
Ariella
CJ in CA: I agree that those are the stereotypes that people associate with fat people, and it is really too bad. Most of the fat people I know are not lazy, sloppy, messy or lacking in discipline. Like I said, I do worry a lot about how people will perceive me because of my weight, but I can’t do anything about their perceptions (except lose weight, I guess). I only hope that their perceptions will change once they get to know me and my work.
Amy: You’re right, I shouldn’t have said “hot.” I am attractive, I suppose, but definitely not classically beautiful. I am OK with it. It is hard to me to believe that some women would get an advanced degree with the intention of marrying a rich man, though I guess it happens. Heh, I certainly didn’t do that when I married my husband (who works for a non-profit)!
Shayna
I think they may be right insofar as people who are attractive are also perceived as more likable, and we also want to be more like them (aspirational?) —
CJ – I agree on the overweight perception being the biggest problem – it actually stems from World War II when resources (like meat/butter) were scarce, and fat people were seen as hoarding them…
Experienced
I think that an attractive personality is the real key. An attractive personality informs one’s physical attributes.
DC Lawyer
I agree with all your points, but I think this illustrates that older women need to help younger women out because they truly don’t seem to know what’s appropriate and they can’t afford a new wardrobe. But a pair of slacks or a pencil skirt, a blouse that covers your bra, a cardigan and a pair of real shoes can be had for under $100 at Wal-Mart, honestly. There’s really no excuse for having visible bra straps or taking one’s shoes off in public.
Ex-3L Sarah
*Meekly* Thank you for reminding me to keep my shoes on. :-) My feet are horrible for heels (regardless of height), so sometimes without thinking I slip off my heels half-way when I’m sitting down. I don’t go all-out barefoot, and I try to only do it when I’m sitting at a table where people can’t see my feet, but sometimes I do it without realizing.
Ex-3L Sarah
PS – I’m not the girl who went barefoot and then tried to get a job from you :-)
DC Lawyer
Halfway off isn’t even that bad – i have a couple pairs that slip off a bit, although I wouldn’t slip them off consciously. This girl was full-on barefoot with her feet on the ground and her shoes off in front of her. Fine for in your own office, not fine for where others can see you.
divaliscious11
LOL, I am the queen of barefoot in my office, but my shoes are always right under my desk, and I actually keep a pair of easy to slip on shoes in case I need to quickly re-shod! I have slippers too, but only for after 6:30pm
Rising 2L
I’m a law student and a relative has offered to buy me a briefcase for my birthday. I’m looking for something classic that I can use for a long time. I have never carried a briefcase before (I don’t use one for my summer internship, I just carry a large purse) and would like to know what features are most useful. Does anyone have any recommendations on brands or styles?
Emily
Before you buy a briefcase, figure out what you’re going to use it for. I have a beautiful briefcase that I thought was perfect because it “wasn’t too big.” Turns out it’s too small for my laptop, and too small to slip a smaller purse into (which is really helpful when you just want a coffee but don’t want to carry your briefcase or your wallet in your hand). So the end result is I don’t ever use it, which is sad. You might consider asking instead for a large professional looking “bag” of some kind that isn’t as rigid as a briefcase; it’s much easier to slip an extra pair of shoes, a smaller purse, and a file folder into a big soft-sided bag.
Megan
My parents bought me a beautiful all-leather one from Coach for my graduation. I’m really in love with it, and it’s holding up extremely well, and I am rough on it.
dd
Second Coach. I received one as a gift (purchased at an outlet store) and it has held up for three years now with daily use … and looks good as new.
Suze
Third Coach! I have one that I bought at an outlet in 1998 (gasp!) that I still use almost every day – it’s red and other than a few war badges/small ink & water stains, it has held up beautifully. Even though it predated now ubiquitous laptops, it accommodates mine nicely, along with a binder or a few files, power cable, Altoids, you get the idea. I just searched the site and they don’t make anything like it now – oh for the old Coach classic stuff. But there are some nice totes there – just don’t spend $350 for a bunch of logos.
KelliJ
I miss the Coach classic look too. Too many bags with too many logos today.
A
My grandmother gave me this one as a lawschool graduation gift in 2005. I still love it and still use it. http://www.levenger.com/PAGETEMPLATES/PRODUCT/Product.asp?Params=Category=11-1001-1004|Level=2-3-4|pageid=6587
A
BTW- it’s the black one.
Shayna
Levenger makes gorgeous things — I swear by their fountain pens. If you sign up for their mailing list they send out sales/discount codes.
Emily
Oooh…I love Levenger. I had to cancel their catalogues, because I was in danger of spending some serious money on their beautiful leather planners and bags.
Shayna
I have been known to spend far too much time salivating over their e-mails … but since I do calligraphy (for weddings, etc.) I justify it as a “business” perusals (which is only true for the pens… ;-) )
Anonymous
I only carry a large structured purse which can hold letter sized files. I cannot juggle a briefcase and a purse. It’s just too much for uncoordinated me.
KM
I second the figure out how you are going to use it idea. My only other piece of advice to try and find a bag that has a separate laptop section. Mine (which is from Target) does and it’s awesome since I never have to worry about damage to my laptop from other stuff in the bag, esp. since the laptop part is padded!
Erin
I have a business tote that’s very structured like a briefcase, and I hate using it. A less structured bag would ahve been much more practical. If I throw in a laptop, pair of shoes, and my purse, it looks all lumpy and it won’t close. Think carefully about how you want to use it, and make sure it will accomodate everything nicely.
I’m a huge fan of the Coach Kristin Satchel and the Cole Haan Prudence Tote, if you like those looks.
recent grad
I agree about going for a large professional bag rather than a briefcase. Had the same discussion with my dad when he suggested getting me a briefcase for graduation. We ended up going with the Dooney & Bourke Kristen tote in red.
http://www.dooney.com/OA_HTML/ibeCCtpSctDspRte.jsp?section=46022
cj
ooh, love that!
Nancy P
Lovely and classic. The red pops and makes it a little more unique, but in such a professional way.
Ariella
Agreed that it’s easier to have a purse that doubles as a business bag. I just got this one (in black):
http://www.zappos.com/kate-spade-tarrytown-seasonal-maryanne-snow-white
Biglaw Refugee
I agree with Emily that you should think about how you are going to use it. Even better, ask if you can get something else now and the briefcase after you’ve been working for a few months, or at least after you’ve gotten to know some people at your prospective employer and can quiz them on what you’ll likely need in your chosen practice area. That way you can see what others are carrying (I never see women carrying briefcases in the office – it’s either a purse plus a simple, lightweight tote bag (not leather) for shoes etc., or it’s a larger over-the-shoulder bag that can carry a laptop and/or files. For court, we use huge “litigation bags” that hold many documents and have wheels like luggage.
It’s rare that I’ve attended a meeting or event at which I needed something bigger than my over-the-shoulder bag but smaller than a lit bag; when I have, I’ve needed one that could accommodate a couple of legal-sized redwelds. As a bag that size is not convenient for daily use, I use that bag quite rarely. The bag I use most often is the Fortunata tote from Levenger, which does not hold legal-sized folders but will hold a small laptop (without a sleeve – I like to take a chance in exchange for a lighter bag) and has straps long enough to go over my shoulder. I get compliments on it (even though it’s a boring black) and it works well for things like interviews because it stands upright (so you can just put it down next to you when you sit down, instead of having to try to find a good place for it) and is structured enough to hold papers without getting them messy. It’s not really big enough for shoes, drinks or other things that many women want to take to work with them, though, and it’s not big enough for a serious meeting where I need a lot of documents.
If you do buy something now, think carefully about the straps – do you want something with short straps that you have to carry in your hand (not great for commuting on public transportation), an 8-9 inch drop so you can sling it over your shoulder, or something with a long strap that goes across your body (good for heavy loads, but make sure there’s padding to go on your shoulder)? The wrong straps can make a bag virtually unusable for me.
mille
I am a public defender, with a lot of freedom in dress and accessories, and have to carry a lot of the business-sized folders to court with me. I went with this bag in black and it has lasted a long time– http://www.ebags.com/product/clark-and-mayfield/stafford-leather-laptop-tote-discontinued-colors/87267?productid=1129170
I’m seriously thinking about getting this one next http://www.ebags.com/product/lodis/audrey-satchel-brief/18072?productid=64689. I love the green, which this site doesn’t have.
If you aren’t going to carry a laptop (which I don’t), look for a bag without the padded laptop sleeve, which takes up a lot of room.
Anonymous
I love the Lodis Audrey Satchel Brief! I have been looking for a bag EXACTLY like that. Thanks!
cj
Wedding etiquette question:
My wedding is in a few months, but a few presents have started trickling in. Is it considered bad etiquette to open them before the wedding? I have to confess I’ve already opened them – couldn’t hold back – but do I need to pretend I haven’t yet? :) Also, if it’s ok to open, is it ok to send out thank-you notes for these trickling-in presents now, or does one normally wait until after the wedding? Thanks!!
Anon
I don’t know what the etiquette is, and I’m not married yet so I can’t speak from experience. However, as a wedding-gift-giver, I can say this: I would absolutely NOT be offended at all if you opened the gift before the wedding and sent me a thank you note at that time. I also wouldn’t be offended if you opened the gift and waited until after the wedding to send all cards at once. I would, however, be miffed not to get a thank you card at all (I’m old school that way…).
SF Bay Associate
Goodness forbid this happens to you, but my bff got presents before her wedding, opened them, did thank you notes, etc . . . and then called off the wedding about 3 weeks before the date. Etiquette requires all the gifts to be returned in such situations, but she’d already opened them . . . it was one more thing that made a terrible situation even worse.
Eva
I don’t know what the right answer is, but even if you’re not supposed to open them, some acknowledgment that you received *something* is definitely called for. I’ve sent a few gifts by mail (two come to mind – one off someone’s baby registry and one as a gift for a cousin’s baby’s first birthday) and didn’t hear anything for months and worried that they hadn’t actually been received. In both those cases, I wasn’t expecting a thank you note in the mail, but a quick email acknowledging receipt would have been appropriate. In your case, something along the lines of “we got a big box from you and we’re waiting to open it until we’re actually married. Thanks!”
If it’s impossible to tell who it’s from without opening (which the more I think about it, the more likely this seems) then I think you are definitely supposed to open it so you can see who it’s from and, as above, let them know it has been received.
Erin
In my experience, if you buy something from an online registry you can track the shipment, so it’s not as much of a concern as in the cases you mentioned.
Anon
Great Aunt Jane is not going to know how to go and track this, and even then, there could have been a problem (eg – delivery man left it on the porch and rightful recipients never actually got it)
MelD
Someone who is savvy enough to order online is probably going to be able to click a link in an email to track the package.
cat
I think you can physically go to a store (e.g. Target), buy the item there and have it shipped. Or maybe you can order in the store and have it shipped.
Ex-3L Sarah
I’ve gotten thank you cards both at the time the bride/groom received the gift (months before the wedding) and right after the shower that I didn’t attend (I heard her mom held all the gifts and gave them at the shower). I don’t think it matters necessarily…
Amber
I opened my gifts as they came in, and I sent thank you cards immediately after opening.
It never occurred to me to wait until the wedding. None of my friends or family did that. Maybe that is regional? It also would have been seen as rude where I am to wait a few months until the wedding to do the thank you notes. I still would have done them because the task would have been completely overwhelming if I’d had many months of thank yous to do all at once!
Cat
I opened / wrote thank-yous as the boxes arrived for several reasons — (1) Makes the thank-you chore MUCH more manageable, (2) if people bought you registry items at non-registry stores (picking up your crystal at BB&B instead of Macy’s or whatever), you can keep your registries current, and (3) you don’t have to worry about running into guests either before or at the wedding and wondering whether you should talk about how yes, you’ve gotten a box from them but haven’t opened yet.
I did keep everything in its packaging (place settings of china stayed in their boxes, etc) and kept the receipts tucked in each box in case we discovered any chipped pieces when we unboxed everything after the wedding.
MM
Yes, Cat is exactly right. Writing thank yous is very time consuming, so get out of the way in small pieces as you can. My husband and I set aside a little time each weekend to write notes, and it was never really that painful. Also, as a gift giver, it’s nice to get the notification so you know it wasn’t lost in the mail.
Res Ipsa
Open it, enjoy it, and send the thank-you note immediately! One of my favorite gifts was an ice cream maker, which we enjoyed immensely the summer months before we got married.
cj
Thanks so much everyone! These are definitely the responses I was hoping to hear. I want to get those thank-yous sent and enjoy my gifts!
There are so many things I would never be offended at (someone opening a wedding present I gifted before their wedding being one of them), but then I’ll bump into someone who know all the “rules” and learn of things I never would have realized I was doing wrong. I have this fear of committing a faux pas and having no idea I’m doing something rude!
cj
ahem, I should probably have said want to enjoy *our* gifts. ;)
KelliJ
HAHA! It takes so much getting used to. Enjoy your gifts. Once I received our new everyday dishes at the shower, I chucked the old dishes and placed those babies in my kitchen.
Erin
Yes, totally fine to open them. Presumably they’re off your registry and you know what they are anyway, right? Normally one waits until after the wedding to send acknowledgments, but no one’s going to be offended if you don’t.
It is true that if the wedding is called off, you should return the gifts, so maybe don’t start using things yet. Having said that, it seems unlikely that will happen and I doubt your friends and family would demand their gifts back if you suffered that kind of devastation, you know?
Sharon
Absolutely open them now and write your thank-you notes. People might worry you haven’t received their gifts.
RKS
I would say, open to make sure it survived shipping and isn’t missing anything. I’m sure we’ve all had things break in shipping, show up defective, show up missing an important screw, etc. You don’t have to *use* it before the wedding, though, to avoid the whole return if called off concerns.
K
I opened my gifts and sent TY notes before the wedding.. I was glad to have some TY notes done so that the pile after the honeymoon didn’t look so big.
m
I would recommend opening the gifts just to make sure nothing was broken while you’re still within the time frame to return the items. I would caution against using the gifts before the wedding though. If anything happens, ettiquette says that you are supposed to return the gifts if you don’t get married. I don’t mean to be a debbie downer, but I found myself in this situation a few years ago and it was a bit awkward.
Dee
Help! I have to wear pantyhose to work and no matter what I do, they get runs within one day, usually around the toes. I get regular, short pedicures and have checked the insides of my shoes for anything that might be causing this. I’ve tried cheap brands and expensive brands, with the same results.
PLEASE HELP. Any brands or techniques you recommend? I don’t want to be stuck in pants the rest of the summer and I don’t want to go bankrupt, either.
Anon
Try one size up. They’ll be a bit longer and that should solve the problem.
Erin
This. I always got runs, and someone suggested I size up and the runs basically stopped.
I love Hue pantyhose, especially the No Waistband style.
L from Oz
Alas, this only works if the runs are toenail induced. If you’re like me and get things caught on the back of chairs, while cycling (I commute in work clothes), while picking up my handbag…nothing helps!
Erin
Not true. Too-tight hose are more likely to run in all the tight areas, not just around the toes.
Eva
Do you walk a lot to/from the office? If so, what sort of commuting shoes are you wearing?
Chicago K
I have had good luck with Calvin Klein brand. They come in very nice “nude shades.” Not sure of your skintone, but I am extremely pale and like these because they have a very creamy shade of nude that matches my skin well.
My mother taught me as a child to wear a pair of leather gloves while putting on panyhose…it keeps your finger nails from snagging the things while trying to stretch/pull them on the first time. it looks a bit weird, but it really works to put them on, especially if they are a snug pair that takes awhile to get up the first time.
Not sure what color you are going for in summer…but if you can find nude tights instead of hose, tights hold up a million times better as they are thicker. Also, any hose with reinforced toes.
It also helps to wear flats, I think that heels cause your foot to slant down towards the toe area and can create a hole their more easily.
Chicago K
errmm…sorry for the numerous typos.
jcb
Nude TIGHTS?!
Anon
I know – I’m picturing figure skaters right now.
1L (Summer) NYC
I AM a figure skater, and I do NOT recommend wearing nude tights. They are hideous.
Chicago K
lol – I don’t know if they exist, but something that would be thicker is all I meant!
dr
I can’t say enough about Italian and Spanish hosiery…sheer and strong! I’ll keep posting about shapings.com because I am so thrilled. FWIT, I wear hose daily – year round and live in a hot, humid, Houston climate. Many of these international brands also have summerweight hosiery, but I find those run easily.
Experienced
Can you suggest a brand and source please?
MHM
I recommend reinforced toe pantyhose. I constantly put my toes through the hose, I think it must be the way I walk. So now I only buy reinforced toes — otherwise, I destroy them in one wearing. Nordstrom carries nice sheer ones, although I couldn’t find any on their website in a quick check.
MJ
I’ve posted before and will post again. Google “One Hanes Place”.
They carry a ton of brands (silk reflections, legs, etc., in EVERY possible pantyhose combo you might every want, in every size). Technically they are seconds, but I’ve never found anything at all visibly wrong with them.
They are a very good deal for the pocketbook too–I recommend you buy a few of one style and experiment.
Other tip is to check whether your keyboard tray is causing the runs too!
Emily
I was doing the same thing and finally realized it was happening when I took them off at night – I was grabbing the big toe with my fingers and pulling. That area was probably already weakened by my commuting and high heel wearing, and I was just making it ten times worse. Another thought is you could really moisturize your feet…my heels snagged up the bottoms of hose until I started using hydrocortisone lotion on them every morning.
RKT
I have found that I have good luck with Victoria’s Secret pantyhose — more so than with any other brand. They last me through 3 or 4 wears, whereas almost everything else has run after the first wearing.
Chicago K
Question – Are twin sets /sweater sets appropriate for a professional office?
I always thought they were, but off of the dress code discussion thread the other day, someone linked to Above the Law, where there were a few snarky comments about how certain items of clothing just “scream IT and not business professional” and one of them was a sweater set. Personally I always associated them with sorority girls and being very prissy, which made me resist wearing them until a few years ago when I finally caved and stocked up on a few.
Thoughts?
ceb
I work in a fairly conservative office, and women wear them frequently, but not to court. I wear them all the time: I wear the shell portion of the sweater set under my suit jacket, and when I get back from court in the afternoon I take off my jacket and toss on the sweater over the shell. Much more comfortable than a suit jacket!
Suze
I think the twin sets are fine for the office, probably not for court & maybe/maybe not for depos (depends on set, I think – I have nice AK, circa 5+ years ago that is a pretty cream color with black detail at edges, and it would be ok even for court). I also think you should ignore the misogynistic haters that seem to populate ATL. I used to visit regularly to keep up with the ‘seamier’ side of Biglaw and all the wild rides of layoffs, deferrals, comp changes, etc, but it seems like the coverage has kind of just fallen apart, too tabloid-y (ATL is now like Nat. Enquirer when it used to be more People, occasionally almost VF) AND even with the new posting protocol, the posters are just unbelievably rude and vulgar. There, rant over.
Wear the twinsets in good health and good cheer – it is an especially nice look and feel for summer!
Amber
I always thought they were good for professional settings except for business formal and was also a little perplexed by that comment on ATL. I just shrugged and took the comment with the huge grain of salt that almost all ATL comments require.
I don’t care for them because I don’t typically like the look of matching sets, but I’ve never associated them with looking unprofessional.
Erin
I had the same thoughts, both about the comment when I saw it on ATL and about sweater sets in general.
AnneCatherine
Uggh totally agree about ATL comments. Also, yes, twin sets are totally fine for office (if not court) wear. Although, I do have two twinsets–one from Loft, probably 6 years old, when they used to do actual work wear, and one from Jones New York–that are sort of knock-off St. John or Chanel-type, where the cardigan is almost like a jacket, and I would wear them to court (though not to trial).
Sharon
I’m not a lawyer, but that Above The Law site seems one layer above 4chan or something. How can you all read it or give any credence to it?
Clerky
Sharon – good question, and the answer is that anyone reasonably intelligent gives absolutely no credence to ATL. It used to be much, much better and actually informative, but has now digressed to juvenile name calling and putting down every possible woman ever featured on there. I boycott that site for those reasons.
Cat
Agree completely. Haven’t achieved complete boycott yet (I will read the posts that are relevant to my firm/city) — but I never click through to the comments, which are generally complete trash.
Chicago K
Well, not a lawyer here either and while I have heard mentions to the site, had never gone to it before. While I can tell that the posters there put themselves forward as being extremely snarky, rude and immature, I was still curious as to others’ thoughts on the subject.
claire
The comments on ATL are awful (not at all like here), but *sometimes* the content is amusing or informative. (CHECK YOU EMAILS anyone? : ) ) I like the daily docket. And the gossip can be interesting but of course it’s just gossip. Also, I found some of my favorite blogs including this one through ATL. I read it occasionally now, I stopped reading daily a few months ago because it got super depressing.
Erin
The content is good and they often break stories that are of interest to the legal community, like layoffs and salary cuts at major firms, and they post surprisingly accurate legal gossip, too.
Shayna
Not an attorney (in finance), but they’re fine for in a professional office, but yes, less formal than suits, so I would look at what people are wearing in your office… “professional” has different connotations for different situations…
I can’t think of an article of clothing that screams a particular profession to me other than a lab coat on a doctor!
Frump
Aside from the fact that many of the commenters on ATL are just snarky, rude, and downright mean, I feel the ‘screams IT/not business professional’ twin set look is more the sort of ‘strappy bright colored cami poking out from beneath a cropped, stretch poly ‘sweater’ from Forever 21′ look. I doubt anybody in their right mind would honestly say that a cashmere or merino wool twin set (from Brooks Brothers or Ann Taylor for example), paired with dress slacks and a pair of pearls, was at all business casual or unprofessional. If anything, that ‘look’ to me represents something that is business, but not suit, formal, and to me is a perfect thing to wear to the office on days where one must look polished/formal, but a suit is not required.
Sharon
I agree. A sweater set with a nice pair of pants is pretty much a go-to outfit for any business casual setting, and with a pencil skirt, could be gotten away with in most business settings that don’t explicitly call for a suit.
jojo
They’re okay, if you’re in the 1990s.
Anna
I have extremely curly hair that looks terrible when blow dried (yes, I’ve tried a diffuser and virtually every hair product on the market). I have to wash/wet it in the mornings in order to style it to keep the frizz at bay, and the only way it looks even remotely presentable is to let it air dry. So basically, it’s wet every day until about 11 am. Is that terribly unprofessional? Am I hurting my career here? Is there something else I should try? Thanks!
Amber
One of my best friends had very very curly hair, so she would wash it at night and sleep on it. The next morning, she used a product by Ouidad to calm the frizz. Her curls looked beautiful.
I don’t know if you are hurting your career, but I admit that I do think it looks terribly unprofessional to have wet hair in the office.
Anna
Believe me, I’ve tried that. I even had my hair cut at the Ouidad salon (for about 5 times what I usually pay) in the hopes they could give me a style that I could wear dry. No dice. I’ve tried silk pillowcases and all of the tricks for avoiding frizz while sleeping, but I always end up with a mess that sticks out in 20 different directions.
Basically, the only way I could arrive at work with dry hair that doesn’t look like a muppet’s would be to wake up at 4 am every day so that I could sit at home and let it dry for several hours before work. Even if I pull it back every day, my choices are still either wet or frizzy. Or I could shave my head…
Erin
Oh I wish I could do that. I just have a mass of Einstein-esque snarls when I wake up in the morning. So awful.
jcb
Have you looked into the straightening treatments? Keratine or whatever? I looove curly hair, but it sounds you are having a hard time dealing with yours. Maybe you could take a break for a little while?
Anna
I actually can’t get most of those treatments because of skin issues. And regular straightening doesn’t work on my hair texture. After a week or so, the frizz is back.
I absolutely love my curly hair. Wouldn’t trade it for anything. I’m just worried that people who don’t understand are thinking ill of me for coming to work wet in the morning.
jcb
I bet that by the time you get to work, it isn’t that noticeable. If I noticed someone had dripping wet hair I’d think it was odd, but damp curls I probably wouldn’t even notice.
michelle
really wet until 11 AM? I have very thick, curly hair that I also let air dry (with the frizz-reducing lotion du jour), and it’s basically dry an hour later so it looks reasonable by the time I get to the office, and and fully dry certainly within my first cup of coffee… maybe towel dry more than you already do if it’s really staying noticably wet for 3 or more hours after washing?
MJ
I have ringlet (Irish) locks. I wear wet hair to the office every morning. I try to dry it as much as possible before I put product in (I use mousse) and it generally dries in a half an hour or so. Yes, unprofessional for a client meeting, and I wouldn’t go to an interview that way. But if you saw my 70’s disco hair from blowdrying, you’d understand it’s for the best. Besides, I get compliments on my hair nearly every day…I must be doing something right. Don’t fight what God gave you–work with it and let the haters be darned!
Anon
Second. I also have long curls and they are still wet when I arrive at the office in the morning (barring a meeting, interview, etc). Dries in an hour or two. I’ve gotten nothing but compliments on my hair. I’ve also had quiet conversations with a few people to be sure that arriving with wet hair isn’t an issue, and it isn’t. Your workplace may be different, but I wouldn’t stress over it.
jcb
So jealous of your ringlets. That is my dream hair. The best I can get are a few enthusiastic waves. Even considered a perm not too long ago (still remember them fondly from the mid-80s, though I never had one myself) but my stylist convinced me that I was talking crazy. You just can’t fake great curls.
Ex-3L Sarah
I also have very curly hair that I have to wash/style/airdry every day. I would go into work every day with my hair damp and, like yours, it wouldn’t completely dry out until mid-morning. I think one time someone said, “Late morning? You forgot to dry your hair,” and I said, “No, I have to let it air-dry, otherwise I would look like a white Diana Ross a la Studio 54.” She said, “Wow, I wish my hair could just dry like that…” and that was that, no one said anything more to me about it ever again.
FWIW, I wouldn’t let a straightening treatment go anywhere near my head, especially for a reason like being professional. In my opinion, having nice, healthy hair is much more important than getting a huge treatment that lasts for a few weeks only to then have a giant ball of fuzz until it grows out.
spacegeek
FWIW, I did the Keratin/Brazilian Blowout 2 months ago and am *adoring* my new straight hair. First 40 years were curly, next 40 will be straight!!
Emily
Have you tried just cutting it shorter? Short hair dries more quickly… I also have curly hair, and my stylist occasionally “thins” out the curls, which makes them hang more neatly. Otherwise, my former co-worker swore by a product from Kerastase that cost an ungodly amount of money. She had perfect ringlets that I bet would easily have gotten out of hand without proper care.
T
I have curly hair too, and can’t blow-dry for similar reasons. I wash my hair only once or twice a week, and apply jojoba oil between washings.
Erin
How does that work? If I go to bed with dry hair, it’s completely snarled in the morning, and if I try to fix it it just looks disgusting. My only choice is to wash it every morning.
AnneCatherine
I was a little confused about washing every day as a couple of posters have stated . . . is it an oily hair problem? Or a snarl problem? I don’t have curly hair, but I have wavy hair that can curl, and so, I would wash the night before, then sort of wet my hands in the morning and run water through my hair, to revive the curls/waves/ringlets.
As for the snarls, I’ve never had those from sleep so I’m stumped. I often skip a day washing. I do, though, never sleep “on” my hair (I hate how it feels on my neck when it’s betweeen me and the pillow): I flip it up on my pillow. Also I don’t move when I sleep so maybe that is why my hair doesn’t tangle.
Ex-3L Sarah
For me, I detangle my hair when I wash it. If I wash it then sleep on it, it gets HUGE, and combing it only makes it look HUGER. I but my hair for the summer to right below my chin, so it doesn’t snarl anymore. However, with longer hair, I could end up with a giant knot in the back of my head that just comes out easier with shampoo and conditioner.
I also dance in my sleep, so that would make my hair snarl :-)
Erin
@AnneCatherine and Ex-3L Sarah:
I actually have fairly short hair, so I can’t flip it up, and I move all over the place in my sleep, hence the snarls.
AnneCatherine, the no washing thing is a big controversy among curly-haired women. There’s a (rather militant IMO) school of thought that holds that all hair-related problems are caused by shampoo, and that you should never use shampoo but just rince and condition your hair. Personally, I have really oily hair (and skin) and there’s no way in heck I’m going to skip shampoo (when I’ve tried it, my hair looks limp and sad). Wetting my hair in the morning seems to just create frizz, and adding product leads to misshapen curls, instead of the soft, loose curls I get after washing. It’s a conundrum – I think my hair is just difficult and I need to stick with my routine, but damn, I would love to have an extra 20 minutes in the morning to sleep instead of wash my hair.
straight but tangly
I can’t offer any advice on curls as my hair is straight as a stick and won’t even hold a curl if I sleep in rollers. However, I can offer some quick cheap advice on tangles as my hair is very fine and knots itself up at the slightest movement of my head. No More Tangles! My mother used to spritz it on my head every day before trying to brush my mess and it takes snarls out amazingly. It is made for kids (I think) but is essentially a spray in conditioner (but cheaper). I still have a bottle stashed in the bathroom cupboard for rough knots, though my scalp has toughened up quite a bit since I was a kid, and my mom isn’t around to be annoyed by my whining anymore, haha!
Erin
@straightbuttangly – sadly, curly hair and straight hair don’t work the same. There’s zero possibility of a curly-haired person combing or brushing her hair when it’s dry. I suppose I might try to brush it if I wanted to iron it straight, but other than that, it would be an absolute disaster, inflating my hair to 3 or 4 times its normal volume.
divaliscious11
What about partially drying? I wear my hair natural, which is curly and one trick is to, sit under an over head dryer, just for 10-15 minutes to get some of the wet out and to set my curls, then let it air dry.
FEF
There is a lot of information at naturallycurly.com that could be helpful. I am also committed to my curls. I got a haircut from a stylist that uses the deva method, which helps my curls dry faster and look better (unlike some thinning haircuts have had in the past, which just made my hair look frizzy and fried). I also only wash my hair every other day or so and use the pineapple method (it’s explained on the website, but basically it involves putting your hair in a ponytail on the top of your head like a shih zhu before bed; it’s not cute but it works). I don’t know if that could work for you, but I encourage you to give it a try. I never thought I could go every other day without washing, but I have found it actually makes my hair look better and now I sometimes go 3-4 days (it doesn’t smell, I promise).
Shayna
I’ve never heard it called the pineapple method, but my mom taught me to do that when I was a little girl and I’ve been doing it ever since — keeps my hair looking much fuller (back then I showered at night, and now I wash my hair every other day… I wish I could go 3 – 4 days!!)
Christina@Styleofpolitics
Yes! I second the recommendation of a cut using the deva method (www.devachansalon.com) and their products are great too. But no cut and no products are going to get you to where you need to be unless you use them correctly. You should read Lorraine Massey’s book: http://www.amazon.com/Curly-Girl-Lorraine-Massey/dp/0761123008/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1276312947&sr=1-1
Her methods really do work, but you have to do it. Not just some of it, and not just sometimes.
Clerky
I read that book religiously and tried Massey’s method for about a year, but my hair just looked awful. I have fine, thin hair and the no shampoo/low shampoo thing just did not work for me. I wash my hair every other day and while I wish I did not have to do that, my hair gets way too oily and gross if I don’t. I think her method works best for those who haver very thick or coarse curly hair.
Erin
Me too! Although I walk to work so mine dries faster. Also, if I blow dry it and then wear a hat on my walk, it tends to tamp down the curls enough that it looks nice.
My favorite product is Bumble and Bumble Curl Conscious Cream for Fine Hair, fwiw.
T.
I am in the exact same situation and have thought about this a lot. I agree w/ the poster who said no wet hair for interviews/trial/depos/any other important event. I don’t wash my hair every morning (I pull it back on those days), and some times I just get it a little bit wet and then put product in (it dries considerably faster). Basically, though, I have decided that for a normal day, it’s not that wet and it’s just not a big deal.
AH
YES, Curl Conscious is the best product I have found, except I use the one for coarse hair.
Erin
I was told to get the one fine hair, even though my hair is actually quite coarse (for a white girl). The salesguy said that the coarse hair one would relax rather than define/shape my curls. Do you think that’s true? I’ve wondered about trying it, but at $28 a bottle, it’s a pretty costly experiment for me.
divaliscious11
Go to curlymart and get a sample!
Erin
@divalicious – sadly, they don’t have Bumble and Bumble.
Shayna
Don’t know if you’re hurting your career, but yes, wet hair – every day no less – is unprofessional. The only women who do that are freshmen in college.
My sister has similar hair – she gets it chemically straightened a few times a year. It costs about $300 each time, so it’s not cheap, but it is worth it.
Anon
No, some of the women who do that have fabulous jobs that they’ve worked hard to get and excel at – and clearly having wet hair every morning wasn’t a hindrance.
I would never chemically straighten my curls (I like them, it is damaging). I am a competitive athlete in addition to my job so I wash my hair once a day minimum, more often twice (2x daily workouts most days).
Shayna
When you walk into work every day with wet hair it looks like you didn’t wake up on time… which to me is unprofessional. Obviously everyone has their own perception…
Chemically straightening your hair is fine — hair keeps growing and you keep cutting it. So it’s not like if you chemically straighten it this year, it’ll be damaged forever! We are talking about dead cells here after all…
Anon
I don’t want to chemically straighten my hair because I like it curly. It looks fab and it suits me and I’ve gotten nothing but compliments. Also, I think telling someone who wants to know how to manage their CURLS to straighten them isn’t really very nice – you’re basically telling her to change her look entirely. If someone wrote in to ask for help in finding button downs that fit a 34F and I responded “try a breast reduction” or how to find a great suit for a size 20W and I replied “lose weight until you can fit into Theory and JCrew and you’ll be set”, that would be COMPLETELY out of line. And I don’t see hair as being different. She asked with help on how to work with what she has, not how to change it.
Shayna
Like I said, everyone has their own opinion… I was sharing what worked for my sister, with her hair. Clearly that is not a universal solution, but my sister will tell anyone that she is much happier, and it takes much less time to style it.
MJ
Disagree, Shayna. I have worked in super-snooty investment banks and at Cravath, and, well, it doesn’t get any more buttoned-up than Cravath. No one ever said a word to me.
It also doesn’t look like I woke up late if I come to work EVERY DAY with slightly damp hair.
I would NEVER ever spend hundreds of dollars for someone to do something permanent and chemical to my hair. I have been told by boyfriends, strangers on the street, supermarket checkers, etc. that I have AMAZING hair. Why mess with it?
If you are rocking a suit, or very appropriately dressed, no one will ever question your professionalism based on slightly damp hair (and BTW, my slightly damp hair has way more body than your average straight-haired girl’s hair would), so I don’t look like a drowned rat.
Louise
Are you able to use a towel to partially dry your hair? If so, you might consider getting a microfiber towel just for your hair. It soaks up much more water, much faster than cotton terrycloth.
I have short wavy hair, but prefer to wash it before going to bed. It needs to be completely dry before my head hits the pillow, or I look like Sputnik in the morning. The microfiber turns an hour of air drying into 10 minutes, no joke. I just kind of scrunch my hair with the towel, no rubbing or tangling. Seems to me that would work with any hair type?
By the way, the el-cheapo microfiber rags you can buy at Costco at $12 for 24 are just as good as the fancy-shmancy ones from Bed Bath and Beyond at $24 for one towel. The Costco ones are lurid yellow, though.
divaliscious11
I second or third whoever recommended naturally curly. Another book recommendation would be Hair Rules by Anthony Dickey. He is a curly specialist (like Ouidad). I actually just had my hair cut by Dickey and am all in love, lol, but his book has lots of great info for curlys.
For the person who asked about frequent washing, its not likely oil, but the need for curly hair to be both drenched and conditioned – bodily produced oil doesn’t slide down a curly hair shaft like it does on straight hair, so you have to frequently moisturize/condition.
divaliscious11
Another method that works, without roughing up the hair or messing up the curl is to use a plain white tee shirt, slip over your head, as if to put it on, but pull the body up over your hair and twist out the extra moisture. The tee will absorb the excess water and your hair will dry quicker…
Erin
I used to do the tshirt thing (although I plopped my hair onto it upside-down and made it into a turban) when my hair was long. When I was visiting my dad, I came to watch TV with him after a shower, and he looked at me quizzically on and off for about five minutes as if he didn’t know what to say. Finally, during a commercial break, he turned to me and inquired, “Erin? Why do you have a sock on your head?”
divaliscious11
PLOPPING! I couldn’t think of the name…but I have friends with short hair (well not really just really tight curl patterns). I always plop in the winter (I an in Chicago)….
Emily
I remember reading someplace that on humid days, drying your hair with paper towels would help it dry faster…it might have also mentioned either brown paper bags or newspapers, but I’m not going to vouch for that. Also, I’ve found that I simply can’t go back in the bathroom after taking a shower with my curly hair – it’s so humid, my hair never dries. I do the rest of my prep in my bedroom or in the other bathroom.
Anna
It’s unfortunate that the straightening treatments people often suggest are so toxic, because I can’t have them. I get scalp burns from keratin and chemical relaxers (and apparently that’s not at all uncommon). I’m a bit envious of friends who can, although I do think that most of them don’t look as good with straight hair, because it seems to make their routines easier. But those chemicals just don’t work for me, and even if they did, they really don’t seem safe.
My hair’s definitely not soaking wet at work. I use the fancy towels right out of the shower, and it air dries for about an hour before I get to work. But it’s extremely thick, so it’s never going to dry all the way before I get to work. It’s pretty short right now, which cuts down on the drying time but also gets rid of any possibility of sleeping with it wet, because it won’t pull back all the way, so it sticks out in 20 different directions. And if it dries sticking out, it stays that way until it’s thoroughly wetted again. I could grow it longer, but then I’d have to wear it tied back all the time to avoid looking like Carrot Top, and I still wouldn’t be able to dry it.
I guess I should probably just get over worrying about it. Apparently, some people are going to think I’m immature/unprofessional and other people will understand and most people won’t care. Not much I can do about the first group, short of wearing a sign explaining the perils of natural curls.
Amber
If it appears dry and is just wed underneath, then that’s different from what I was originally picturing. I was picturing the “just got out of the shower and my hair is wet enough to make my shirt wet” type look.
If it’s basically dry and just the insides/underside takes a while to dry, people probably haven’t even noticed.
anon
Ditto this. I was picturing much wetter. My own curly hair is rarely 100% dry when I get to work (on washing days).
Clerky
No offense to anyone and I realize that people are trying to be helpful, but it irks me when curly haired folks are told that they should straighten their hair! A lot of us love our curly hair and would never dream of straightening it. Straightening involves a ton of toxic chemicals and can involve permanent damage to curly hair, which tends to be somewhat fragile already. IMHO, the solution is figuring out the right products that work on curly hair, not to straighten it.
Ok, I’ll get off my soapbox now. :)
Anon
What Clerky said :)
Shayna
If you like your curly hair, and it looks good on you, then that’s great – my sister straightens hers chemically and loves it straight – because curly hair made her look like (and I’m quoting her here) “Bozo the clown”… like they say, “different strokes for different folks”
Ex-3L Sarah
A-MEN sistah :-)
legalicious07
I completely agree! The solution for curly hair issues is not straight hair. It’s learning how to properly care for curly hair — which will often require different techniques, products, and even mindsets.
Sites like naturallycurly[dot]com and nappturality[dot]com, along with products like Ouidad, Qhemet Biologics, Mixed Chicks, Carol’s Daughter, Kinky Curly, and Miss Jessie’s can help us look our best, sans straightening!
Erin
Seriously! Thanks for saying this. No one would ever suggest to someone to get plastic surgery or something; why do they suggest that we pour formaldehyde over our heads?
JLaw
I can totally appreciate the frustrations of curly hair. I’m constantly struggling to figure out different ways to wear it. My hair looks good down, but I can never do the low pony tail because it just looks like a little triangle sticking out the back of my head and buns aren’t so great either because the top of my head gets all frizzy when my hair is pulled back. If anyone has any suggestions to this, I’d appreciate it!
As to your question, I personally find that my hair works best if I shower the night before, let it dry a little bit so it’s not soaking wet and then go to bed. When I wake up the back of my head is a little frizzy, and yes sometimes you just have a bad hair day and there’s not much you can do about it, leading to my problem of not having many other options for styling it. But one solution I have found when I have the time is to use a curling iron to recurl the top (where I get the most frizz) and around my face. I’m not talking about doing your whole head, just the parts that are pretty frizzy. The curling iron kind of pulls everything back together and I’ve found it works pretty well. I especially will use this solution if I have somewhere important to be that day – an interview, event, etc. And since my hair already is curly, and I brush my fingers through it after, it still looks natural and not like I’m going to a dance recital or county fair or something.
RS
My only caveat is that many hair products have a strong scent while they are still wet that they do not have when dry. I find the strong scent of some people’s wet hair product to be quite annoying and some people have allergies. Otherwise I think damp hair is fine.
Anon
Mine are fragrance free :) (shampoo, conditioner, leave-in and gel). I hate fragranced products and don’t even like smelling them on my OWN hair. I swear I can smell my hair for days after a haircut (my salon uses Aveda – so strong!)
Biglaw Refugee
I think it depends how obvious it is that your hair is wet. If it’s a little damp and someone would have to really study to be sure that it was wet and not just shiny with gel or something, that’s probably fine. Obviously wet hair is very unprofessional, though, and you should try to find a way to avoid that (I can’t help, as I have thin, fine hair that air-dries quickly – whole different set of problems though). If you absolutely have to go in with wet hair, I think having your hair back would make it less noticeable that it’s wet.
anon
I think it depends how obvious it is that your hair is wet. If it’s a little damp and someone would have to really study to be sure that it was wet and not just shiny with gel or something, that’s probably fine. Obviously wet hair is very unprofessional, though, and you should try to find a way to avoid that (I can’t help, as I have thin, fine hair that air-dries quickly – whole different set of problems though). If you absolutely have to go in with wet hair, I think having your hair back would make it less noticeable that it’s wet.
mille
As long as it isn’t soaking wet, you should be fine.
I’m pretty sure my hair is opposite of yours. I have very curly, very thin, fine hair that I have to wash every day due to oil issues. Mine responds well to a diffuser, or to air-drying after a product is put in. I can’t use anything thick in my hair– my rule is if it doesn’t spray on, I don’t use it. I have it short because I can’t stand the feeling of hair on my shoulders, and also because it curls better when short. On a good day I have ringlets. On a bad day, frizz with no curls.
My curls don’t respond to most of the suggestions on the suggested websites because it is too fine and oily.
lala
Can you maybe wash it the day before, then put it in a loose braid so that it can’t snarl while you sleep? it probably won’t dry all the way when you’re asleep, but you can take it out the next morning, and it will be partially dry and not snarled.
I braid my hair every night when it’s still wet, and it’s always worked for me!
E
Oh! Suggestion that worked very well for me – wrap a cotton T-shirt around it after washing (and shaking out the excess water, of course). It then frizzes far less than it would with a towel.
My morning routine is: shower, breakfast in towel and the T-shirt around my head, get dressed. So when I’ve finished breakfast my hair is definitely in ‘damp’ rather than ‘wet’ territory.
It’s still damp when I reach the office, but not so that anybody would notice.
CFM
I am going to a wedding this weekend with my boyfriend. (I told him how good you all are!) On the plane ride, how should he bring his suit? He is bringing a duffel bag and a suit. I realize there is a garment bag involved, but can he do that on its own with the carry on?
Ex-3L Sarah
I’ve recently seen ticket agents make people try and put the garment bag into the duffel/luggage to carry on. So I think he should try and pack it before trying to bring it in a separate bag. Before, you could also bring it through security and then just hang it in the 1st class coat closet before sitting down. Unfortunately, I’ve now witness stewardesses take the garment bag out, and go through the cabin saying “who’s is this? OK, it needs to go under the seat or in the overhead bin, or else I need to check it.”
What about a garment bag that is also a piece of luggage?
anon23
It depends. It should be considered the one personal item. If you have nice flight attendants they should try to hang it in the first class closet for you even if you are flying coach. Good luck!
KZ
he may end up having to check one, depending on how picky the agents are (check the duffel bag).
For future trips, I don’t know if these are good, but they might be worth trying–I saw them in a NY Times article a couple of months ago and will eventually get one.. : http://www.skyroll.com/skyroll-on-wheels/
KZ
Another swimwear question: I recently moved to an apartment that has one of the rarest of things in New York: an outdoor pool (I was very excited). As a result, I’ve decided I’m going to start swimming laps for my exercise. However, I would prefer to wear a bikini rather than a 1 piece, but obviously most bikinis aren’t designed for lap swimming. Does anyone have any recommendations for bikinis that won’t shift around when moving a lot? I was thinking maybe Land’s End, but I thought people might have other suggestions.
KZ
sigh, this was supposed to be a new post, not a reply. sorry about that.
Erin
I don’t have a particular suit I’d recommend, but I’d recommend this style of top:
http://athleta.gap.com/browse/product.do?cid=54481&vid=&pid=756444&scid=756444012
A full-coverage racerback isn’t going to move around. I’d wear it with a high-cut bottom – one that sits high on the hips and completely covers your rear.
Frump
I used to be a competitive swimmer in California where, as it was sunny most of the time obviously, I needed bikinis for lap swimming to avoid the characteristic one-piece “hole in the back” tan. So I bought more sporty bikinis by Speedo (sometimes TYR) and they were durable, meant for heavy use, and worked just fine for 3-4 hours a day of lap swimming. I was comfortable, the tops didn’t move around, and I didn’t feel my workout was compromised by wearing such a suit instead of regular one-piece lap swimwear.
I used to order from this site all the time, and they are great.
http://www.swimoutlet.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=2686&Click=310393
Res Ipsa
Try SwimOutlet dot com. They have an enormous selection of fitness swimwear, including two pieces.
moi
yes, swim outlet—just beware, if you have a short torso [like myself] the speedo/tyr bottoms will come right up to your bellybutton [folding down the elastic once will solve this problem].
Frump
To be fair, one doesn’t necessary want a super strappy, low cut bottom when lap swimming in a two-piece. Yes, rolling the waistband can help if the higher waist is just purely uncomfortable or digs in the wrong way, but if we’re talking about unpleasant aesthetics- well, it’s lap swimming, not the Miami beach scene. I think function can trump form here, in this case.
Shayna
If you feel the need to purchase luggage as a gift in the future, I highly recommend Samsonite’s spinner suitcases – they come with a garment bag for ‘business attire’ that tri-folds into the suitcase so you don’t have to use multiple bags — I have both a small and a large one and swear by them when I travel (for work or vacation). This one is similar to mine (Mine are a few years old, and red — and they both look as good as when I got them) : http://amzn.to/9c9ErY
MelD
I have two of them and they are great. I think my carry-on was $89 at TJ Maxx and I can fit a week’s worth of clothing in them. Mine came with a garment bag, two shoe bags, and a laundry bag.
Liz
Oooooh, I like these shoes! They’re such a pretty shade of blue!
JDK10
I just ordered them, and the “25sale” code now knocks the price down to $86.10! Eeeeeeeee!
Anonymous
I just ordered these shoes, too. They look simply divine! Can’t wait to receive them.
Lawgirl
Those shoes are the business! SwOOOOooOOOoooN.
Esquirette
Posted too late on the TPS report comments (which inspired the question) to get a response so re-posting here: Every time I see a half way decent looking pant or skirt in white, I try the item on hoping against hope that the fabric will be thick enough to prevent indecency or that it will be lined . . . and I am every time disappointed. Ladies, please put out your recommendations for fabulous white/off white/cream pants and skirts that actually are wearable! I beg you! (Note: No slips in the summer (or ever, really!)).
Shayna
I saw this skirt at Macy’s a few weeks ago and thought it was adorable – it’s a heavy cotton – closer to twill, maybe? http://amzn.to/acfC2R
I wear boyshort style underwear when I wear white skirts/pants and that takes care of any ‘vpl’ issues… They’re not exciting but I swear by Hanes — http://amzn.to/dugEcP
Anonymous
Try Ann Taylor. Got my only pair of super flattering, no pockets, opaque ivory pants from there 2 yrs ago…….
K
I have a white skirt from BR that is lined, v nice.
Bonviva
Try the Lafayette 148 New York brand’s “Essential Bootcut Wool Trousers,” available at Nordstrom and Neiman Marcus among other places. The cream pants are lined and very wearable, and the wool is lightweight and doesn’t wrinkle.
recent grad
I got a white pencil skirt and white linen pants both recently from The Limited.
jojo
I think the world is coming to a Seinfeldian end as I type this, but: J. Peterman has some great lined white and off-white pants.
RKT
I noticed in the Coffee Break post on the Cole Haan Prudence bag that someone mentioned a tip for caring for high-end bags. I would love to hear any tips folks have to offer — I just bought my first high(er) end bag, and I admit that I am terrified to take it out for fear of something happening to it. And yet I love it so much that I want to carry it every day. So tips to keep it in good shape while I am carrying it would be much appreciated!
Amy
– Try not to put it on the floor, especially at restaurants. I ruined a tan Coach bag by putting it on the floor – right into a puddle of red wine I couldn’t see against the color of the restaurant’s carpet. I have used those “purse hanger” things but usually I just try to use an empty chair or space on the booth/banquette to put it on.
– Don’t sling it onto tables or benches, or stuff it into a drawer. Bags get enough wear from everyday use; abuse will age it even faster.
– Someone recommended the Coach leather conditioner, which I like. I have also used leather furniture wipes from Target, which I am sure some people would scream about but it seems to work for me. Wilson’s Leather online also has conditioning kits. On supersoft and/or light leather, make sure you patch-test whatever you’re putting on in an inconspicuous place. One time I tried to clean a very soft brown bag with leather conditioner and the conditioner stained it, irrevocably. I was sad. :(
– I have never used water-repellent on leather bags but I know some people do.
Congrats on your bag purchase. I just finished up a huge project and to celebrate I bought a Botkier from Gilt, it’s my first “luxury” handbag purchase in a long time. Remember, great bags are meant to be carried. And no matter what you do, or how careful you are, no bag is going to last forever. (Even if it did, most go out of style sooner or later anyway.) Carry it, love it, enjoy it, use the heck out of it. Then when it’s on its last legs, get a new one. :)
Erin
I recommended the Coach leather cleaner and moisturizer, and I love them. I also use water repellant on everything leather because I live in a wet and rainy place, although definitely do a spot-test first in a hidden spot to make sure it won’t discolor the leather. I have Kiwi brand repellant at the moment and it works fine.
Erin
Oh, also, if it’s fabric lined, use Scotch Gard on the inside to prevent stains (but don’t let the Scotch Gard get on the leather).
moi
coach leather cleaner OR if you’re cheap like me—kiwi brand saddle soap. And yes, take care of your bag, but remember that you bought it to USE it–so don’t be afraid to take it out and show it off!
RKT
Thanks All! I appreciate the tips.
Erin
Be really careful with the saddle soap. It’s really a cleaner/protectant, not a moisturizer. It is not made for soft leathers, and it can leave a sort of waxy pallor on certain leathers. I think that, if you spend a lot of money for a nice bag, it’s worth buying products made for fine leather.
Lucy
I got a bottle of something called lexol from my cobbler. Put it on a sponge & go over new shoes & bags, & it does a fantastic job (same as luxury cleaners but for much, much less.)
ES
thank you for finally reminding me what it was that i used to use on saddles when i rode horses – i always thought that would be great stuff but could not remember the name!!
AnneCatherine
Okay I need help. I am lazy, or just busy, so I’m sure this has been addressed but this is my question/plea that I am asking for help with now (and feel free to point me to an old post): I need (want) a watch. Nothing with diamonds. I just got my tax return (finally!) and want to spend a fraction of it on a professional watch. I have no interest, for instance, in a fashion watch, large-faced watch, or the Michael Kors kind (which are cute, but I can’t wear to court). Maybe this is totally unrealistic, but I don’t want to spend more than $500 (ideally, not more than $250- $300). I just have never paid attention to watches, know nothing about them, and I was dismayed after I did some Internet window-shopping to find out that $500 won’t necessarily get me an awesome watch, and everything has diamonds on it . . .
I guess this is what I need to know: is there a certain shape (rectangular, circle) that looks better, is in fashion, is more professional, etc.? A certain color? Any specific brand recommendations? While I know that cost per wear may support a $1,000- $2,000 price tag, there is a psychological barrier there I cannot break so I am looking for recommendations at $250- $500. I also need to know if that price point is just totally unrealistic.
Things I probably should mention: I wear both gold and silver (not together, being an old); I don’t wear any jewelry every day like a ring; I switch earrings every day; I am not small so I could probably support a medium-sized watch, and a tiny watch would look silly on me, but a large watch is not something I would find professional enough to wear every day (I am looking for a watch to wear to court, among other places); I am an old (mid-thirties), as mentioned, and also a person from humble beginnings as they say, so I cannot spend four figures on a watch, it just won’t happen, I have olde-fashioned ideas on what a watch should cost; I want a metal band, not leather (is leather even done anymore?). Oh, and I don’t do eBay, it seems complicated and annoying to me. I hate comparison shopping, or window shopping, and like to just get in and get it done.
Thanks in advance!
SF Bay Associate
Though I’m not a fan of all their logo merchandise, my watch is Coach and I love it. I wanted to spend about the same amount you did, and also didn’t want any bling of any kind. I also have a fairly small wrist so it needed to not overwhelm me. I bought the Coach Madison, though you may also consider the Lexington model.
http://www1.macys.com/catalog/product/index.ognc?ID=432572&CategoryID=47859 It also comes in a gold and silvertone mix, and a solid gold tone.
Macy’s periodically has Friends and Family discount days (I think the last one was in May?) where pretty much everything is included, including the brands that are always excluded from the typical Macy’s discount. I bought my watch during Friends and Family a couple years ago and got it for 25% off. There will certainly be another F&F between nowish and Labor Day.
The sales clerk told me that Coach watches are made by Movado. My mother has a Movado that’s about as old as I am, so I’m pretty confident my watch will last.
Amy
Another Coach watch lover here. I have a Lexington with a stainless/gold band and it goes with everything, looks both classic and chic, and has been incredibly durable. The jeweler who replaces our watch batteries told me what SF Bay Associate said, that Coach watches are made by Movado. I have a gold Movado I use for special occasions but the Coach has been a great everyday watch.
Shayna
I have a Citizen Eco-Drive watch that I’ve been wearing for about 7 years now and it still looks fabulous — it’s also waterproof to 330 feet, and solar powered so no batteries (which also contributes to how light it is). Mine is similar to this one: http://amzn.to/9B6ltQ — I can’t say enough good things about these watches — the company offers a 5 year warranty and the links can be taken in/out to fit your wrist.
Mine is two tone in color – silver band, gold bevel around the face, dark blue face – and I recommend two tone – it’s a chic look, and takes away any stress about what to wear (I wear my watch 24/7). I like the round face — it’s always in style and I think that the rectangular and oval shaped faces go in and out of style.
LawIntern
I second the Citizen Eco drive, except that the gold parts tend to wear off, showing the silver below. Took about 3 years of regular wear for it to happen.
Shayna
Mine has gold on the bezel that is still looking good on year 7
LawyrChk
Thirded. I’ve had mine for 5 years and it still looks great.
KZ
I agree with Citizen-I have a non-eco drive that I love, and my boyfriend’s eco drive he’s had for 7 years still works perfectly/looks good, and I assume the women’s version is just as nice.
TAH
I also love my Eco-Drive. Mine is stainless steel with a slightly pearlized bluish face. I think it looks professional, and it’s not flashy, which I also love.
Esquirette
I think Movado watches are beautiful and professional, and there are a variety of metal band styles. I don’t really pay attention to watches but my husband got me a Movado when I graduated from law school, and I get nothing but compliments on it. I noticed that there are retailers (e.g., Overstock) that carry styles in your price range. I recall Kenneth Cole also having very nice metal styles that were much less expensive but I just did a Google search and only saw some on Amazon. Also, my sister wears a Fendi Classico watch that she’s worn for about 20 years now that is also lovely (though pricier).
Emilie
I have a Movado bracelet/link style. If you have a Movado outlet near you, you can definitely find one in your price range.
Anonymous
Try the Omega 2 tone metal band watches – you can pick a non diamond style. I have had mine for 7 yrs now, goes with everything. Mine has diamonds where the numbers would be, so less blingy but can be used as a dress watch too if I need to……….
Check out Ebel too…they have 2 tone metal bands.
Not sure abt the $$ though as my purchase was a long time ago (I paid 1800$ for my Omega)
K
I have a Tissot watch that I got on ebay, but full price is 250-500 or so. Very nice and unobtrusive.
L from Oz
I got a Tissot watch for my 21st birthday (thanks Nan!) with a two-tone band in gold and silver, and it’s both lovely and going strong a decade or so later.
(Actually, I wear a black swatch frequently since I swim a lot and am reluctant to leave the Tissot lying around, but it’s a beautiful watch that I do wear a great deal.)
KelliJ
I have a Coach watch similar to the Madison Nappa Strap Watch. (For some reason, I can’t attach a link.) My watch has a black leather strap and a round face. I’ve had it for 10 years and love it. I’m not big on flashy or trendy and it’s just a simple elegant watch that goes with everything.
AnneCatherine
Thank you, ladies, for all the watch recommendations. I went to Nordstrom today and was dismayed with their selection, so I went to a (mall) watch store, where the girl kept trying to make me buy my dreaded Michael Kors huge-faced watch. So…. I went to Penneys, yes, J.C. Penney, looking for a Citizens or Bulova, but ended up with a Seiko. And it has diamonds, but they are unobtrusive and I think it can double as a dinner/dress-up watch, but on the typical day will look fine in the office:
http://www3.jcpenney.com/jcp/X6.aspx?DeptID=56856&CatID=57640&GrpTyp=PRD&ItemID=14ac0b5&attrtype=&attrvalue=&CMID=56856%7c56866&Fltr=&Srt=&QL=F&IND=29&cmVirtualCat=&CmCatId=56856|56866|57640
I had a Fossil watch years ago and I did like it, but the face got scratched up really, really quickly, which obscured the numbers.
Thanks again ladies! Oh, and I was distracted by some of the cute clothes Penneys now has. No idea about the quality though.
Another Anon
Congratulations, it’s gorgeous!
(Was going to second the Movado recommendation, or suggest ESQ or Seiko… )
Enjoy it.
Chicago K
Excellent choice, congrats on your new purchase!
P.S. – Mid 30’s is old? Really, did I read that right?
AnneCatherine
Well, I just was remembering that, when Kat first “went public” with her name, she posted a poll, then the poll results, about Corporette readers, and I recall vaguely that the average reader was say 27 so I figured I would not lump myself in with the young ‘uns. :)
Erin
Far below your price range, but I have had several metal Fossil watches, and I love them. They are basically unbreakable and there are many styles that are classy enough for court but pretty and stylish enough to be interesting. And since you don’t like to mix silver and gold, you could get two or three watches so you have different ones to wear with different jewelry, instead of spending a bunch of money on just one watch.
Sharon
Don’t laugh, but I have a Fossil watch that I spent about $90 on that I can wear for most any occasion. It’s two tone white and yellow gold and superficially, it resembles a Rolex in terms of its shape and style (though no one would obviously mistake it for one). I have a Cartier tank watch that I received for college graduation, with the brown strap, but sometimes that just feels too “mannish” with certain outfits and / or heavy for the summer with the leather strap.
1L (Summer) NYC
I love my fossil watch!
Nita
For old-timers, Fossil is more “Coach” (classic) than Coach. Also, for either Fossil or Coach, check your local premium outlets.
LawIntern
Hi, everyone! I will be attending a luncheon for the federal judiciary (dead giveaway to where I live? maybe…) Anyway, I know I have to wear a formal suit, especially since I plan to send my clerkship application materials to a lot of these judges next week.
I have three options: formal grey skirt suit, formal black skirt suit (interview suit) or a questionable black skirt suit. I want to wear the questionable black suit since I know it will be extremely hot an it’s a thinner fabric, but the sleeves are not full length (they hit right at the wrist.) Other than that, it would be an interview suit (simple, well-fitted, etc.) Would this be ok?
Any other tips for how to make the most of the luncheon?
Emily
Do the sleeves look like they are intentionally too short, or does it look like you bought the wrong size suit? I might go with the true interview suit; some members of the federal judiciary are really old-fashioned about women’s attire. Not fair, but true.
As for other tips – introduce yourself to the judges, or at least to their clerks. I was a clerk, and was always disappointed when a clerkship candidate would say, “Oh, I was at such and such a lunch with your judge! But I didn’t get to talk with him.” If you have a mentor who might know some of the judges, attend with that person and follow them around. A judge is much more likely to remember the law student introduce by Professor So-and-So. If you have business cards, bring lots of them, keep them somewhere convenient (ie, not your wallet) and pass them out. It sounds cheesy, but I’ve been at networking events where I met dozens of people, and the only ones whose names I remember are the ones who gave me business cards.
LawIntern
Thanks for the advice! The suit looks like a 3/4 sleeve suit, intentionally shorter sleeves.
I’ll be riding there with a judge and know many of the clerks, so I’ll make it a point to stick close to them. In past events, the other interns tend to stick together, which is not the best idea, in my opinion. I just need a way to avoid exclusively talking to them.
Lola
I second the advice about the business cards. I don’t usually have anything in the pockets of my suit jacket – except a bunch of my own business cards.
recent grad
Great idea! Talk to your career resources office – there’s a chance they may be able to print some for you with the school’s logo, stating when your anticipated graduation date is (actually, I don’t know how many schools do this, but I know mine did). Another option http://www.vistaprint.com. I had some nice ones made not too long ago with my name, undergrad/law schools with graduation dates, and contact info, for too much.
Anonymous
Personally, I would wear the formal grey or black suit, particularly if you are going to be self-conscious about the sleeves on the questionable black suit during the luncheon.
You say it will be extremely hot, but I assume the luncheon will take place inside and in an air-conditioned setting. If you’re worried about sweating while in transit to the luncheon, I’d suggest carrying your jacket until you get to or near the building in which the luncheon will take place and putting it on at the last minute.
As for making the most of the luncheon, I recommend that you engage in conversation with the judges, but do not monopolize the conversation. State your name clearly when you introduce yourself. Think about presenting an image such that when a judge sees your resume/application, she has a favorable impression of you.
Good luck, and have fun!
LawIntern
Would the grey suit be ok? Or do I need to stick to a truly conservative suit? Thanks for the advice!
AnneCatherine
I think grey is actually more conservative. Isn’t there a thing about the “Man in the Grey Flannel Suit” being the epitome of a business man? So, by extension, I’ve always assumed that applies to women . . .
Anonymouse 228
I think the grey would be fine.
Anonymous 228
Er, that’s Anonymous 228, not Anonymouse 228!
I am not a mouse!
Emily
I agree, a grey suit of any hue in summer is probably fine. In winter, it’s better if it’s a very dark grey.
Meep
I’m speaking on a panel this week (first time). Any tips would be much appreciated!
Biglaw Refugee
Not sure what advice I can provide, other than to practice whatever prepared remarks you have to make sure that you can say what you want to in the amount of time you expect to have. It’s hard to say anything in the 10 or 15 minutes that panelists are often given, but your co-panelists are unlikely to appreciate it if you take more time than is allotted. Also, I find that practicing a lot helps a little bit with the nervousness. Good luck!
1L (Summer) NYC
Two officewear questions for a SA (NY Wall Street law firm, business casual dress):
1. I am super-excited about the world cup. Would it be an absolute no to paint my nails with team colors? I wear a suit everyday otherwise.
2. Can I wear silk scarves to work? I have not seen anyone else in the office do so, but there is a lot of variation.
AnneCatherine
Just my opinions:
1. Yes. It would be an absolute “no.” You are still free to do so, of course. I’m just letting you know my opinion . . . and opinions will vary. But, my thing is, if even one person at your firm thinks like me and thinks it’s a no, even if we are techinally wrong, you are still the one who will “pay” in terms of “offending” the sensibilities of a potential boss (not me, someone at your firm who may think like me). Can you do your toenails? Or express team support with a mug or screensaver or something?
2. Yes, I think so. I suppose it depends how you wear the scarf. Even if no one else does, it would be a mark of personal expression (and, unlike the nails, which could announce non-comformity or non-seriousness to stodgy boss types, a scarf is a “recognized” mode of personal expression that is “accepted” for business women in the same vein as broochs, purses, unique shoes, and jewelry.
AnneCatherine
I should clarify, on the nail thing, that I am picturing each nail being a different color (red, white, blue; or yellow, green, white, blue). If, instead, you mean it will be a subtle homage by painting all your nails the same color, and the nails will be short, and the color is not “out there,” (is, e.g., dark red, or a navy blue that could pass for the blacks and purples that are in in some circles) then that would seem more business-like, to me, than a rainbow hand.
Suze
Careful! Even the navy blue mani might be a little too, too for a conservative setting. Why not get a pedi (and even go rainbow if you don’t have to go to any ‘official’ social events requiring open toe shoes for the next couple weeks)?
Agree totally with Anne Catherine on the scarves.
L from Oz
I’m in Europe, which obviously makes a difference, because my workplace has gone world cup mad, and no one would blink for a second at flag-toned fingernails (and two of the three colours on the national flag here are not subtle). I would have worn a football jersey on Friday, actually, except I had a meeting with a trade rep.
So check the office mood – maybe it’s OK. But I wouldn’t do it for the whole month though!
PT
agree
Legally Brunette
Agree that any unusual color on your nails is an absolute no. No flexibility on that one. To be honest, I don’t even see women at my big law firm wearing color on their nails – it’s mostly clear or pale pink/peach, so even a bright red may stick out. Go crazy on your toes as long as no one else at work will see them!
Another Anon
No on the nails — maybe hang up a flag in your workspace instead?
I loooove silk scraves, my one indulgence. I wear tham as belts or ties (don’t laugh, it looks pretty sharp!).
HTH!
1L (Summer) NYC
Thanks for all the responses! I will not be painting my fingernails. However, I might be getting a scarf in team colors…
Hope everyone has a lovely weekend.
Erin
1. No, unless your firm has many soccer fans and you are all avidly following the World Cup together.
2. Yes! Definitely.
Res Ipsa
Yes on the scarf (silk, not the traditional wool football scarves), yes on a World Cup/team lapel pin, yes on posting the standings on your door/in your office, yes on the toenails, yes on sneaking away to watch a match with some coworkers in the middle of the day, no on the fingernails.
I agree with L from Oz, if you lived in, well, basically anywhere except America, you could probably get away with the fingernails, but since half your office probably doesn’t know that there is a World Cup going on, you should play it safe.
Suze
Does anyone have any success with managing rosacea? You know, the red splotchy ugh’s that show up if you drink red wine, eat spicy food, get anxious, etc? I have struggled with it for years – derm prescribed some sticky cream that provides some results, sometimes, for a little while, but not that great; Eucerin has an OTC line that works a *little*; I use Shiseido’s green tinted foundation stick and have dabbled with some of Clinique’s stuff (too heavy/sticky/itchy), none of it really does much good for very long if at all and most of it just makes my already oily skin shiny. I am so envious of a nice porcelain (or just minimally splotched) complexion. It is particulary annoying/embarrassing because the splotches come up exponentially under stress (eg, confrontational depo; heated hearing) and not only my cheeks, but my whole NECK, go crimson splotchy. Same with a nice round of margaritas and spicy salsa/chips (necessary after aforementioned heated hearing days :-)). Any suggestions/experiences would be very much appreciated!
Legally Brunette
I don’t have any advice, but you have my sympathies. My sister had it and it just went away on its own — she was going through a particularly stressful marriage at the time, and once she divorced it just completely went away. I hope others can give you some good advice.
Lola
I deal with this too, and sometimes the solution is just to wear a turtleneck. I’d also look into some stress-management techniques – your face can betray you, but only if you’re really actually stressed and trying to hide it. If you’re actually feeling confident, then there’s no redness you need to hide.
Also, I’ve heard good things about the green-tinted concealers, but sounds like you’ve tried that.
AnneCatherine
Wellllll, I have to take issue with this. I think there may be a conflation of flushing/blushing and rosacea going on here. Yes, roseacea leads to flushing/blushing a lot, but, once it does, and you are in a “flushed episode,”/flare-up, feeling confident will not all of a sudden remove the redness of roseacea; the true flare-up of roseacea may linger for days/hours, not disappear once the stressor or trigger is removed. Also, it is truly rare for roseacea not to actually progress as you age–in other words, to abate or go into remission rarely happens. Instead, it most commonly gets worse with age, lack of treatment, etc. I am not trying to be a downer but it is a condition that sort of dogs those who have it, and it’s not the same as blushing/flushing/stress hives–though lots of folks–me included–are prone to both/all three conditions. Suze, I would recommend Finacea gel or cream at night, Triderma Facial Redness Repair under your powder during the day, and Stila powder foundation. But that is ME and you may react differently to each of these products. I have found so much help reading the blogs and message boards, NOT sites like WebMD which depress me. For sudden flare-ups which then linger, I invented (for myself, I mean, I didn’t patent it) an at-home regimen that I then read about someone else (not a doctor) recommending and it is this: when you feel yourself getting truly red, like purple red (not mildly flushed) and you know a real flare-up is coming, ice your face, then take an anti-inflammatory like aspirin or Ibruprofin (not Tylenol), and an anti-histamine like Zyrtec or Benadryl. This helps shorten the episodes, a bit, and “calm down” your over-reactive skin and blood vessels. I have struggled with eczema, roseacea, and tinea versicolor, and I just find you have to experiment until you find what is right for you. Also, never, never use hydrocortisone. One of the Clinique products (the “emergency relief” one) contains this and it will have a very bad rebound effect on most roseacea. Also, take Vitamin C and E, to keep your cell walls strong and your skin renewing. Good luck!
Anon
I have the same combo of skin problems that you do (eczema, roseacea, and t.v.) and have to agree that it’s extremely frustrating. Especially when you’ve tried everything the doctor can prescribe and nothing seems to make a difference. I suppose I should just be grateful I never got acne!
Louise
My husband has rosacea, and it was much worse when his job was high-stress. He uses a prescription medicine called Metro gel or Metro cream. I think the “metro” is metronitazole, which is a strong antibiotic. They control his flare-ups in a couple days. With less stress in his life, it has definitely gotten better with age.
Rosacea is a tricky medical condition and should be treated by a doctor, so I hope you are working with a dermatologist.
You have my sympathy. I’m sorry I don’t have any advice on a cosmetic cover-up. Hubby’s technique of growing a beard is bad advice for you!
Suze
Thanks for the suggestions! I think the next step (per dermatologist) is going to be the Obagi rosacea line. Does anyone have experience with that?
Oh, and, am hoping for less stress now that kids’ school is out, a few other stressors have resolved/ are resolving at work, etc – summer just seems easier :-).
maine susan
I had all the classic rosacea symptoms and the dermatologist put me on doxacyclen (sp?) orally for 60 days and now we are able to keep it at bay with the topical cream Finacea twice a day. I am amazed at the difference in my skin. Good luck.
PJB
Yes, there is a treatment for rosacea, and it’s not lotions or vitamins or green make-up base. I tried all of these. You are right. They don’t work.
But lasers do. Unbelievable results! I really couldn’t and can’t believe how effective it is, and how much better I look. From red, spotty, and flushed, to creamy and smooth. I never realized how bad the rosacea looked until it was absent.
. . . Sorry, I can’t remember the name of the laser treatment, but I’m sure a reputable dermatologist or plastic surgeon will know.
Also, the treatments (3) are pleasant. A sort of light, warm feeling as the doctor waves his magic laser wand over each area of your face. Each treatment lasts about 30 minutes. Expensive, but worth it.
Bonnie
This response may be too late but wanted to add my 2 cents. I too have rosacea and too well understand the frustration. Staying away from the triggers, wine, exercise, stress, sun, etc is simply not going to happen. After some trial and error, I have come to rely on these products:
Murad Redness Therapy Sunscreen
http://www.amazon.com/Murad-Redness-Therapy-Correcting-Moisturizer/dp/B000GDDKLM/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&s=beauty&qid=1276534270&sr=8-5
An important note about sunscreen and rosacea. Most rosacea sufferers have a photosensitive reaction to chemical sunscreens. Check your products to make sure they don’t have added sunscreen ingredients like oxybenzone or PABA. This particular sunscreen has a chemical blocker. It’s also tinted green to downplay redness slightly. I belive Shiseido adds in a chemical sunscreen to their products. I swear by Clinique’s foaming face cleaner but avoid their redness like like the plague. Ironically it caused a flareup for me because of an added sunblock.
I use Metrogel for bad flareups. And stick to Bare Escentuals powder foundation. I have also received laser treatments to get rid of broken capillaries.
Avoid chemical peels, scrubs and the like as these can all irritate skin further. I get a calming facial every couple months as well. I’m not sure how effective that is but it certainly is very relaxing.
I get really red after working out. I’ve found that putting on a gentle moisturizer like Clinique’s basic yellow one calms my skin quicker. I then follow up with a green tinted mineral powder concealer from Physician’s Formula.
If you have redness on your neck, you probably do not have rosacea which is more typically redness in the face. A dermatologist can properly diagnose it.
Hope this helps!
Cat
Just a thanks to the several Corporettes that have recommended CoverGirl LipSlicks. I picked it up at the drugstore in “Daring” today (although normally would have immediately written it off as too dark as I am blonde and fair) and it is the perfect amount of sheer color for everyday officewear. I’d forgotten it was my first ever “lipstick” when I was about 10, though — the smell immediately brought me back to the very pale pink I was proud to wear!
FEF
I picked up “hipster” the other day and had similar experience! The smell and taste immediately took me back to the pearly pink color that was my first “lipstick” back in jr. high. Daring looks a little plummy/violet in the tube. How does it look on?
Cat
I debated between hipster and daring in-store — opted for daring because I usually look better in a blue-ish red, and I thought hipster had too many orange-ish brick tones for me :)
It definitely doesn’t look purple-y on me, though it might if you have different skin tone. Just a nice, sheer color that’s enough to look polished, while I won’t have to worry about looking goopy/shiny from gloss or uneven if some wears off while I’m talking.
We probably had the same shade — “pearly pink” is the perfect description. I remember the tube being narrower and bumping the color into the cap with annoying regularity!
FEF
Thanks! I am strawberry-blonde and fair as well, so I wrote daring off as too dark, but I might have to give it a try. I was also afraid hipster looked too brown, but it actually goes own as a very natural rosy-red tint on my lips, in case you want to try out any other shades.
recent grad
Another shout out to Corporette! I ordered the L. Erickson featured on Monday. Love. It. I got it in the sorbet color, which looks really nice with my dark blonde hair. Am seriously considering getting another one!
RR
I have a whole cartful of L. Erickson stuff at Amazon. Thanks for the review! I think I’m going to pull the trigger (and I also have dark blonde hair, so love that the orangey color looks good).
divaliscious11
Did anyone ever order or get any of those Etsy dresses, specifically Lirola? I really liked one or two, that if well made, could morph into uniforms for me, but thought I’d check to see if anyone else bought before I guinea pigged…
Clerky
Would love to know the answer to this one too. I LOVE the Lirola dresses, so pretty and elegant and unique.
divaliscious11
Checked back – Lawgirl bought, so I’ll wait on her post. I am a dress wearer so if they are nice, I could be really happy
Shayna
Need some etiquette advice — Two colleagues (who I greatly admire professionally) graciously gave me references — and they were actually called, and spoke for about 45 minutes about me/the job/etc… they each also spoke with me at length about my resume, and just, in general, put in a tremendous amount of effort to give me the best possible reference — I want to show my appreciation but I’m not sure what’s appropriate – Do I offer to take them to lunch/dinner? Send a card?
Thanks for any suggestions!
SK
As someone who has happily devoted time to being a reference, I promise you that what is appreciated more than anything is a heartfelt thank you AND feedback. Nothing is worse than having written a reference, or talked with a potential employer, and then the recommendee NEVER LETS ME KNOW WHAT HAPPENED! This has occurred both when the recommendee got the job and when he or she didn’t. Really, a gift isn’t necessary or expected (though one former student gave me a very nice “note cube” containing notepaper with my initials, which was very thoughtful and appreciated).
Shayna
Thanks — I have kept them in the loop — I feel the same way – I want to know what happens!
AnneCatherine
Do they work with you in the same office/company? I wasn’t able to tell. If they do, stop by each one’s office, individually, on different days, and say “hey, thanks for taking the time to [talk to X] [write that email about me]. Do you have any lunch plans/feel like joining me for lunch today?” Then, just pick up the check when you are at lunch.
I wouldn’t make it “I want to take you to lunch for the favor you did me”; for some reason, that just seems awkward to me. Mentioning the two things in the same conversation, though, would more than imply that you were grateful and they were somehow connnected events.
If these folks don’t work in the same office/company, and are, instead, in the same field, I would simply write them thank you notes, though not cards per se (no need for Hallmark is what I mean, but do send something through the actual U.S. mail, not email). You can finish up the note with “let’s have coffee one day soon.” Something about “I want to take you to dinner to thank you,” while sincere-sounding, just seems . . . awkward to me.
Also, while I’m sure they did take significant time out of their days, that is the type of favor you repay in kind and/or assume “what goes around comes around/we all help each other” about, as in, while you may never be in a position to do the same for them (though if you are, great, that will be repayment enough), one day you may be able to do the same for someone just coming up. These folks themselves have likely been the beneficiaries of similar professional courtesies, and they understand that you will do the same thing for someone else (or them) someday. But still, a thank you (in person or written, depending upon how often you see them) would be appropriate.
Shayna
They do work in the same company, but we all tend to just go to the cafeteria and eat at our desks (one of them has an office near mine, the other is in a different building). I called and thanked each of them after they sent me e-mails that they had spoken w/ the pot. new employer — Thanks!
Erin
Thank you note is appropriate (a real, handwritten one), or just an email or phone call to update them on the results of your job search.. I generally see being a reference as a standard part of being a professional, not as a special favor, so I wouldn’t even expect a card (although I’d appreciate one). I don’t think a gift or anything is necessary, and actually it could be perceived as unethical or at least look bad, depending on your field.
anon
I have a memorial service to attend tomorrow afternoon, and I am realizing that I am woefully inexperienced on how to dress. The deceased was the spouse of a work colleague. Do I need to wear a black suit? Black pants and a sweater? I don’t really have any black dresses that are appropriate to the season and the situation. Help!
Amy
You don’t have to wear black anymore. Most often, not even the family will be in black, although it does depend on the cultural norms of your area. You don’t need a suit either. Any darker dress or conservative top/pants combo will be fine. Subdued, sedate, however you want to think about it. Obviously nothing too tight/short or boobalicious. Remember to put your cell on silent (not even vibrate – if it vibrates against something in your bag it can make a huge racket) before you leave the house. I’ve been to two funerals in recent years where silent prayers or “moments of reflection” were interrupted by cell phones. I’m sorry for your colleague’s loss.
Louise
I’m sorry for your loss. I agree with Amy that black isn’t necessary, but subdued is. If you have black slacks and a plain sweater, that would be fine. It should be on the dressy side, as that sends a signal of respect for the family. Skip the bright colors; choose burgundy instead of red, for instance.
The rest of this is probably not news to you, but if you are inexperienced in attending memorial services, perhaps might be useful:
If you had any sort of relationship with this person, and there is a time in the service where people are encouraged to speak briefly about the deceased, I would encourage you to do so. The family is often so sad that they cannot bear to stand and speak. Those who are a few steps removed, like friends and coworkers, usually don’t choke up and can share a sweet or funny story. Believe me, the family will appreciate your three sentences so much. Just to know that their beloved brother/grandmother/uncle was admired by people outside the family is a great comfort.
I’ll never forget my uncle’s memorial service, where a dozen coworkers from years earlier (he was 85 when he died) stood to say how much he had helped them do their jobs better. As a child, I had no idea even what he did. But after that, I knew he did it very well and he was well-liked.
Examples of appropriate things to say during the “sharing of memories:”
Complimenting the persons sense of style, sense of humor, love of nature, how they were so proud of their kids/dogs/vintage motorcycles, how you admired their singing/charity work/ability to fix things/crazy dance moves at the company holiday party. Even if you only met them once or twice, but they make a strong impression, say it. Please, overcome your shyness and say it. You won’t regret it, and someone from the family will most likely thank you later for being brave enough to stand up.
Nothing is sadder than a memorial service where no one can muster up something positive to say about the deceased. And nothing helps the healing process more than shared good times, a little laughter, a few tears.
I admire that you are attending this service. Even if you are going just to support a coworker, that’s a generous gift.
Louise
Oh, and I meant to add: If there isn’t a specific time in the service to say these things, say them directly to a family member afterward or write it in a condolence note. Those cards may be kept for months and re-read later. After three years, my Mom still treasures the notes from my step-Dad’s service.
Victoria
Definitely agree with this. At my Dad’s funeral a few years ago, my family and I were incredibly grateful to the many people that got up spontaneously to express their respect, admiration or love for him. It meant just as much coming from those that didn’t know him incredibly well, as we realised how much he had touched them despite their limited interaction.
Lola
Thanks, Louise, also for this comment. Absolutely true.
ChickintheStix
Louise, this was great advice. Not OP, but appreciate it just the same.
Chicago K
Second this, not the OP but great advice. Thanks for the comment Louise!
RKS
Is it just the memorial service? Or will there be any part in the cemetary? If there’s going to be an outside portion, keep that in mind so you don’t roast. I would suggest a black skirt with a dark neutral top. Doesn’t need to be black, but should not be colorful.
Shayna
I go black for these things — but a suit is not necessary. A conservative top and black pants/skirt is fine.
AMS
I am puzzled about all the advice that black is not necessary. I don’t know when, or if, that became true. I attended a funeral recently for my husband’s grandfather, and while the immediate family was in black, the guests were in a host of other colors. And I was actually very offended by it; I suppose it would be one thing if the family said “oh, please don’t wear black; we want to celebrate his life.” But the family was very clearly mourning the loss of my husband’s grandfather, who was a wonderful man, and to see people at the funeral in other colors (I mean pink, blue, green, red — not navy, grey, or brown) was jarring and upsetting. I realize everyone is casual about everything nowadays, and people aren’t as formal as they used to be, but I STRONGLY feel that people attending funerals should wear black, or a similarly dark color, and you should realize that if you are not doing so, you may be upsetting the family by showing a lack of respect for the deceased. It doesn’t have to be a black suit, but a dark jacket for men, or a dark top and pants for women, seem to be necessary to me.
Erin
I would be offended too to see people at a funeral wearing bright colors. Three of my grandparents have passed away in the past two years, and at all of the funerals, all of the non-immediate family guests wore dark, somber colors. It’s one thing if someone breaks out a red parka at the graveside service when it’s snowing, quite another if she’s wearing a red dress underneath, you know?
My grandmother was Irish, and she loved the color green, and to memorialize that we all wore green shamrock pins. But no one actually wore a green dress and it would have raised eyebrows to do so.
Amy
I am not sure it’s a codified thing. I agree that there is way too wide of a range of what’s considered “appropriate” for funerals these days. I think I shared on another thread that when my best friend’s mother died unexpectedly last summer, there were people who came to her funeral in shorts, cutoff jeans, tank tops, etc. while the family was dressed in suits. However, my best friend and his brother both wore gray suits – not black – and my friend’s wife wore gray as well. I wore black because I had the dress already, and the death happened so unexpectedly I had no time to get something else. I have been to several funerals in the last few years (unfortunately) and very rarely has the entire family been in black, or even many times in formal clothes. I do think this is geography-dependent. I’m in a hot part of the country and in general, people don’t wear very formal clothes here – many times, even for business – because they’re so uncomfortable in 100+ degree heat. I also don’t think NOT wearing black is an automatic sign of disrespect, especially when someone (like the OP) is just a casual acquaintance of the deceased. I totally get family wearing black. I don’t think it is at all necessary for casual acquaintances/friends, and in fact may cause some weird feelings, if the acquaintance looks more like a “mourner” than the family does.
recent grad
I agree that it can also be kind of a regional thing. I attended the funeral of my grandmother two years ago, who was greatly loved and respected in our family. I’m from the south, though from a much more metropolitan area, whereas the rest of the family is from a very backwoods area up north. I wore a medium gray skirt and black blouse. A lot of the family did not wear black. Maybe that’s just how things are up there (can’t say I’ve spent a ton of time up there during my life). But even considering that, I was still shocked and appauled to see one of my cousins in jeans. I don’t really care who you are, that’s still just disrespectful.
cbackson
In my particular faith tradition, white is the color worn for funerals. But I always wear black if I’m attending a funeral outside of my religious community, because I feel pretty strongly about dressing as conservatively as possible under those circumstances.
1L (Summer) NYC
Same for my faith tradition, but even there, sometimes members of the family who live in the United States can be conflicted about which is more appropriate.
Anon
I go with a black, knee length dress with elbow length sleeves. If the family expects black, then I’m good – and even if they don’t expect it, they won’t be offended (unless they specifically said “no black, please wear colors in celebration of Aunt Rose’s life” in which case I’d wear something in a mid-toned color).
anon
Thank you all very much for your advice. I went with dark gray pants and a black twinset and was definitely on the more somber end of the spectrum. There were a lot of bright colors; however, it was intended as a “celebration of life,” so that may have played into people’s decisions. There was not a suit in the room, so I’m glad I didn’t go with my initial instinct of black suit. I had never met the deceased but work closely with his wife and went to support her.
Emily
One note of caution on the black; I’m a lawyer and recently attended a funeral for a fellow lawyer. The majority of the attendees were also lawyers. All wore black or charcoal gray suits.
I also have attended too many funerals for high school classmates (I’m 27) – attire was all over the board, but almost universally not black. I wore a black suit anyway (came right from work), and just didn’t worry about it. If you don’t want to stand out, think about who might attend, and try to dress accordingly.
bluejay
http://video.au.msn.com/watch/video/9raw-too-sexy-banker-had-plastic-surgery/xql9j8v
What are peoples’ thoughts about this? Does this change things? I’d really love to see a post following up this topic, Corporette! Thanks.
Clerky
I saw this and was really apalled at her behavior and how addicted she was to plastic surgery. I initially felt some sympathy toward her when I heard about her discrimination case, but now looking at the video, it seems like she is an attention getter who filed suit mostly to try and land the next Playboy spread. Ugh.
Experienced
Couple questions for you, ladies. First, can someone break down the “rules” for me on summer footwear and open toed shoes. I’m old and conservative enough that I am not comfortable wearing open toed shoes to church. That said, I’m not sure where we stand with open toed shoes for work now. Any thoughts?
Separately, any suggestions on business casual in general? Can footwear include nice sandals or platforms (not gladiator, not pole-walkers)? Re: biz casual clothes, any suggestions would be great. Want to make sure I’m hip but not too dressy or too casual. Will be with all men, who wear pretty much shirts or polos with khakis. Lucky them!
Erin
Open-toed shoes are fine, and most places even allow sandals, but they should be conservative – nothing overly strappy, no super-high heels, etc. Stick to peep-toes, slingbacks, or sandals with straps that cover a substantial portion of your foot (but not so substantial as gladiators). Avoid anything with a thong between the toes, even if it has a heel. I’ve seen some women wearing platforms at work, but in general I don’t think they’re appropriate. I’d also avoid espradrilles and cork-soled sandals as these look too casual to me. Also, make sure your feet look nice- calluses removed, nails trimmed and maybe painted, no visible blisters.
MelD
Can you give us some idea of your region? What will work in the South/FL will probably not apply to the Northeast.
Experienced
Live and work in St. Louis and south, so hot. However, this business casual trip will be in the Northeast.
Shayna
The shoe rules where I work (fairly conservative business casual) is that open toed are fine as long as there’s a heel (which should be no more than 2 inches high). Nothing resembling a flip flop.
I love the look of cork in shoes, but it’s a bit too casual to wear in my office :-(
Experienced
Thanks ladies for the good advice. I did find a very attractive (I think) pair that fit the bill and have some decent style. I must have looked at thousands of shoes to find this one pair. -The majority were either: 1) too edgy and high; 2) too frumpy dump; 3) ugly. Thanks for the good counsel!
JK
I have a question I was hoping some of you could help me with: how do you ladies keep your files and projects organized? I’m a new attorney and am finding that my system of writing down notes on a legal pad is not doing the job in terms of keeping me on top of things and figuring out what I need to be doing. I’ve been thinking about getting a whiteboard to list all current projects and their status… does anyone have any other tips? Also, any tips on how to bill your time? I find that I am terrible at it… I hate doing it because I feel like it takes me 4 hours to do something that should take less than half of that because I’m still learning the ropes. Also, any ideas on how to make your office feel a little more personal?
Thanks in advance :)
Victoria
Good questions, JK! I’m just about to start as a graduate and will be very interested in any responses that you get to these questions. :)
Cat
Just responded re billing/organization below — but saw your personalization question just now. I’d start slow, 1-2 personal photos (one of a pet is a good conversation-starter, if you have one), a plant, and your diplomas/bar certificate if people at your firm typically hang them. Favorite mug. Over the next few months, you could bring in a little art/sports banners/evidence of hobbies (framed number from a marathon? a throw over the back of your chair that you knitted yourself?) and the like.
Shayna
I keep open projects in an excel file so it’s easy to sort and edit, with a notepad with today’s accomplishments written down on it so that at the end of the day I leave feeling like I did something with my time.
As far as making your office more personal – be careful not to go overboard with personal photos/children’s artwork, etc… Keep it to a few photos of family/friends/pets – framed if possible. Bring in a plant (I have a philodendron that has survived various offices for the past five years with me), and hang a calendar that has something fun on it, instead of the standard boring one.
moi
-Get a calendar and write down all of your deadlines and court dates on the month section and then all of your smaller dates on the week/day section, use highlighters or colored pens to keep things organized
-Put everything into outlook or google calendar [if you have gmail, which I use more than outlook] and send yourself reminders
-If need be, ask people to follow up with you after you set an appointment. Just having the confirmation email from the person will remind you of the appointment every time you see your inbox
-As for billing, I keep an excel doc open at all times and enter in the client/task/time for everything I do. As someone has already said, don’t worry about the amount of time it takes you, it’s the partner’s job to cut it down
RR
Case organization: I keep a section of my planner filled with blank pages. For each case, I start a page. On the front side is all of the deadlines and dates. Then I have a running to-do list – everything I think of that needs to be done on the case, whether immediately or 6 months in the future. I go through a couple times a week and update these and once a week transfer the immediate to-dos to a weekly list. I also track things I am waiting on and sometimes make notes. On some projects, these end up multiple pages long, but I like having that record. Then I calendar everything on a paper calendar and on my electronic calendar, which syncs with my iPhone.
Time Entry: I keep a pad of paper with the dates of the week listed on it, and I track daily what I’m doing with time estimates. Once a week, I sort all my emails into case folders, and I go through those, through my document list, through my phone log, my calendar, and through my stack of mail and just make sure I’ve gotten everything. Then I input it every weekend or Monday.
Biglaw Refugee
Organization is very personal so you’ll have to see what works for you. Try browsing books on organization, look at the “Getting Things Done” book and website, and try things out.
What I have been doing for a while is:
1) When I get a new matter, I immediately start a redweld and label it “working file.” I also create a few manila folders: “Status and notes”, “Notes – client mtgs,” “Notes – interviews/depos,” and “Drafts” – I customize it by case but these are the folders I’m fairly sure I will have something to put in eventually. I try not to let the piles on the desk get too high before I take everything and put it in the redweld, or in the appropriate folder within the redweld. I often make my own labels, using all caps for the redwelds and regular case for the manila folders, then send my admin the document with the labels and have her deal with creating the actual labeled folders.
2) I keep an excel spreadsheet with six worksheets. One is my to-do list, with a priority, due date, client-matter and expected time assigned to each task. I have used Excel functions to total up how many hours I have for today and tomorrow. I try to break down larger tasks into smaller parts so that the amount of time for each is not overwhelming. I spend a fair amount of time adjusting the dates and expected time to complete each task, but having everything down in one place like that, and being able to quickly see what’s due when, helps me stay on top of things, so I think it’s worth it. The other worksheets are labeled for the days of the week. As I complete tasks on the to do list, I cut and paste them onto the “done” worksheet for that day, adjusting the amount of time from my estimate (which is always wrong – but it can be helpful for time management to see the patterns in the wrongness so you don’t overcommit down the road) but copying over the c/m and task. At the end of the week I copy over my time into the firm’s billing software.
Res Ipsa
Take advantage of the “calendar” program (If you use outlook). You can use “tasks” to set dates adn reminders, but more importantly, as soon as you get a project, actually block out the time you’re going to need to complete that project in your calendar. Every day, print out the daily calendar which will then give you guidance on how you’re going to spend that day, and should have the list of upcoming tasks to be completed on the bottom half.
Emily
My supervisor starts a new notepad for each new matter, and keeps them stacked in such a way on his desk that he can see the client and matter at the top of each pad. I’m thinking of transitioning to that; it’s just so nice to quickly see all the notes you’ve taken on a matter, without flipping through several notebooks.
Otherwise, I use a system similar to Biglaw Refuge’s item #1; redwells with manila folders. I have a stash of blank ones in my office. My real secret is that my assistant has been hugely helpful in keeping this system going; she comes in and puts labels on files, and if she sees a pile that is out of control, she asks what it is and immediately starts organizing it.
mille
Write down all the time you spend on a project. After you are done, you (or a partner) can go back and decide how many hours should be billed. Things do take forever when you are new.
Suze
Good suggestion mille. The whiteboard thing never worked for me, I just always get ‘behind’ on it. Two things do work for me: (1) a steno pad that I keep as a running to-do list and (on separate page) list of calls to be returned with dates/notes re call; and (2) for the inevitable ‘case piles’ that sprout all over my desk, I label each stack on the upper right corner of the top page with a dark sharpie so I am not flipping thru piles looking for whichever memo or complaint I need right now.
Cat
Re: billing — I have to disagree with the “go back and see how much should be billed” advice. NEVER lower your own time. That’s the partner’s job.
My firm has an automatic timer you can turn on your computer to click on/off when you’re working on different things. Some people love it; I never use it b/c I never remember to click “off,” making it useless. I just keep a piece of paper going during the day, and enter my time at the end of the day.
Re: organization —
(1) If prioritization is an issue, remember to ask the partners you’re working for about what should come first (especially if you have more than one matter going with the same person).
(2) Whiteboard is a good idea as a general list (just the names of the different cases / deals — this also signals your level of busy-ness to people stopping in).
(3) On a daily basis, maybe do an index card or use a daily planner? Write down things on a desk-size calendar so they’re in front of you? Depends on whether you like things popping up on your screen or written out — I am firmly in the paper-and-pen camp but an Outlook task list might work better for you.
Emily
Wholeheartedly agree with Cat on billing. If you think you spent too much time, just say something to the partner who assigned the project. Let them make the decision. Otherwise, you’re just sabotaging your own career.
Emily
This is a great thing to think about early in your career before you have a lot of piles and no idea what’s in them!
I keep two task lists. One is in Microsoft Outlook organized by client name and the other is a paper one consisting solely of upcoming deadlines. Outlook allows me to categorize things so I have a category called “Waiting” which is things I have given to the partners and they are currently ignoring…. so I can keep an eye on that but from day to day I sort by my “Current” category to see what I am actively working on.
When work comes in I immediately add it to my task list — even if it is “Draft this will, details in X file” — something that tells me the scope of the task. That way, though piles inevitably sprout on my desk I don’t need to look at them to figure out my workload. I similarly deal with snail mail and email, so that I keep empty inboxes.
It sounds like more work than it is. I started this a couple of years in so I had a bit of time transitioning. However, I have found this is the best system for me because (1) the organizational time allows me to spend much less time looking for things, (2) Having only the 2 lists makes it easy for me to figure out the most important thing to be working on in a given day, and (3) I never have to stress that there is a deadline lurking somewhere in one of my piles. I used to just keep a bunch of piles and the top couple of papers were the current tasks… I had no idea of the size of my workload and it was unhelpful (to me). But organization is very personal so some of my relatives have stacks of paper on every available inch of desk surface and they know where every paper is!
Amy
Not a lawyer, but I use Outlook task lists a LOT. It’s actually a pretty robust tool and I think it’s somewhat underused/unappreciated. Plus, my smartphone syncs with my Outlook so I can enter tasks in at the office OR on the phone and everything ends up on the same list. This has helped me a lot when I wake up at 2 a.m. and think, “oh crap, did I do x?” I can check the task list on my phone and see. Outlook Tasks are very sortable, organizable, etc. and with every new version of Outlook it’s gotten better.
Amanda
Career advice for someone looking to switch careers here.
I’m turning thirty in two weeks and have been a corporate librarian/knowledge manager at two consulting firms in the New York area for the entirety of my professional career. I’d like to move into consulting proper, and I’m wondering how best to proceed.
To give some background, I did my undergraduate work in financial economics and I holder a masters of arts in library and information studies from a well-regarded program. I spent two and a half years in a chemical industry consulting firm, where I performed basic and in-depth secondary research, managed the physical library and designed my department’s portal on the intranet. My current firm is a much smaller company but with a much broader base of industry expertise. We historically did M&A consulting, but have been moving into more strategy work. I primarily do research there, again secondary – everything from in-depth financials, to market research, to statistics, to press and news – but since I’m a one-woman department, I also manage all the knowledge management function in the company, vendor relations, do research training for consultants, and am collaborating with IT to implement an intranet, which we don’t currently have. Despite all this, I’m feeling kind of unchallenged, and I think the time has come to move into a new realm.
I’m not sure how to do this. Ideally, I would try to pursue opportunities within my current company, and I do plan to bring up the idea of doing more project-oriented work at my upcoming six month review, but…I don’t really want to be a consultant here. The company’s culture is almost entirely dictacted by the CEO and founder, and as a result it’s misogynistic in the extreme. We have one female director and almost no female consultants because there simply are no opportunities for advancement.
My partner’s aunt is recently retired from Deliotte, and is on very good terms with many of the partners there, so I also have that connection.
I guess I’m just looking for some advice on how to proceed. I’d rather not go get an MBA right now if I can avoid it – I already have considerable debt from library school, and librarians aren’t the most well-paid bunch – and I’m planning to brush up on my foreign languages, but are there other skill sets I should pick up as I transition?
Shayna
Deloitte has a great reputation – but be ready to put in some major hours…
Depending on what are of consulting you want to do I wouldn’t rush into the MBA imemdiately – but I would brush up on the current buzzwords in whatever industry you intend to move into — There are online webinars for free from Deloitte, E&Y and other firms on various topics that would probably be good to take a look at to get a handle on the current issues, and what they’re calling them.
A
Thoughts on brown bags and black suits? I love this: http://www.dooney.com/OA_HTML/ibeCCtpSctDspRte.jsp?section=43977 – but I can’t find it in a black or a deep red. So if I get it, the color is either saddle, which I’m having a hard time picturing or a deep brown. I work in federal court, and I’m in black or grey suits most of the time.
LawyrChk
I carry a dark brown tote to work daily, regardless of what I’m wearing, and I think it’s fine. Then again, mine has more of the functionality of a briefcase than a handbag, and you never see men afraid to carry their brown leather briefcases to court just because their suit is charcoal.
Emily
A quality brown leather bag will definitely go with black or gray.
Anon
I hope this isn’t too late in the weekend to get comments! I was wondering if anyone had thoughts/experiences with those “convertible” dresses – where the dress can be styled in different ways to look like a completely different dress. One that I was considering getting is at http://www.soma.com/store/browse/product.jsp?productId=570004093
I’m also wondering about the color – I’d love to get one of the bright colors this dress comes in, but I feel that anything other than black goes against the versatility of the convertible dress – it would be too obvious that it’s the same dress in the pink or purple color, wouldn’t it?
Any thoughts would be much appreciated!
Shayna
It’s interesting — and I’m bookmarking it for later perusal – but I agree – if you get it in a more distinctive color, you run the risk of it looking like the same dress regardless of how you wear it (unless you wear it with a different group of course)… Black has versatile, hands down!
Clerky
I don’t have one of these types of dresses but I am skeptical about them. My hunch is that the majority of people who buy this would only end up using 1 or maybe 2 of the possible styles — from looking at the pictures, some of the variations are kind of out there. I also think there could potentially be a lot of extra fabric hanging out the dress. Curious to hear what others have to say.
j
I bought this dress a few weeks ago and love it. I got the black so it’s pretty versatile and it’s shaping up to be my go-to summer dress. I haven’t tried all of the 7 options (and agree that a few are kind of weird) but have found the few that I have tried to be flattering and comfortable. I will say that it takes me a bit longer to get ready as I’m trying to manipulate the wings/straps/whatever you want to call them, but you may be more coordinated than me. I wore it this weekend to dinner with my boyfriend and his parents and got compliments from both the bf and his mom – so that seems like success to me!
On another note, I’ve just discovered this store and highly recommend their bras. I’m pretty well-endowed (a 36 DDD or 38DD depending on the bra) and it’s not always easy to find great bras at the mall (don’t get me started on why Victoria’s Secret puts padding in even their DD bras), but I’ve been really happy with their Lara bra.
K
I just bought a new bag! :) I got a mini truffle from morelle on etsy. She is closing her shop so everything is on sale – I hope that I like the bag, she has 100% positive reviews.
http://www.etsy.com/shop/morelle
watchstore
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