Workwear Hall of Fame: Side Slit Sweater

182 Comments

1. I just ordered a long merino cardi from BR and a couple of swackets from J Crew Factory to try out. I realized that my layering situation was not great. I don’t need or want a blazer (not that they fit anymore) but I need something to wear over tops, both for warmth and to dress ’em up.

   1. I have gained a lot of weight during pandemic, due to stress and also Cushings. This means I have a bump on the back of neck/top of shoulders and significant fat around my middle (it’s like a 1980s fanny pack…I cannot take off! I think it is also called a fat apron)

      Please help me return to office – I’m pretty senior and visible and feel very self-conscious. I am in a business casual office.

      I think I need: tops/tunics with a collar, black pants that look semi formal (not like leggings) but with a stretch waistband, dark rinse jeans also stretch waists. I am also in dire need of some good undergarments to pull in my belly and still be able to breathe.

      The tunics at J Jill have too much of an open neck for me, usually, specific products VERY welcome.

      Thank you!

      1. Someone mentioned pull on pants from the Loft recently. They have crepe and brushed flannel and look like real pants. Might be a good place to start.

         1. OP: thank you, I’ll take a look! I don’t have specific budget/constraints, so open to higher priced items as well.

      2. Eileen Fisher could be your friend for this set of needs–lots of options with comfortable pants, and tops with constructed collars but plenty of ease. Good luck and virtual hug. I am also in a senior role and have put on at least 10 pounds over the pandemic–I weeded out loads of clothes and still haven’t sorted out what will both look and feel good at the office.

         1. Thank you for the kind words.

            Over the weekend, I found ming wang pull on pants as well and some nordstrom finds too in case others are interested.

            I’ve also decided to take most of my old suits to a domestic violence shelter in hopes someome can use in job or interviews, much bigger challenges than I have. Best to all of us….

      3. Rag and Bone Simone pant

         1. Thank you I’ll order those and give them a go!

      4. Uniqlo has some pants that look like formal pants, with a pleat in the front, but they have a pull-on waist. The front has a fake zip placket and the back has gathers (but will mostly be hidden if you wear your top untucked). I love these and have two of them.
         I think it is their solid ankle length pants or their linen cotton blend pants.

         1. Thank you!

            1. I also found some at talbots for anyone following the thread.

2. If you go to a PCP for physicals as opposed to an obgyn, do they do a br*@$t exam even if they aren’t doing a pap? At my old dr in NYC it was standard (and she didn’t do paps anyway so that wasn’t an issue). Got a physical pre pandemic in a different city, large health system and she asked if I wanted a pap and I said no because I had had one recently and she then didn’t do a b exam either — I suspect she either does both or neither. Is this standard? Because I have an appointment coming up, different PCP and I WOULD like her to do a b exam even though I don’t need a pap, yet I don’t want to be that weird person that asks or maybe some PCPs don’t do it and expect you to go to an obgyn for it?

   1. Mine does it for my physical even if I’m not due for a pap.

   2. My PCP does it as part of the physical, no connection to a pap.

   3. The standard of care changed for paps a couple of years ago — if you are average risk, they now only recommend one every 3 years.

      1. If you can believe it, you’re even done at some point. I am negative for high risk HPV strains (how I avoided that I will never know…) and I’m just about through meno. My PCP said I only have to have one more, ever. And I’m not going to an OBGYN any more at all. There is light at the end of the tunnel, so to speak!

   4. Breast exam is not connected to paps. If you want abreast exam, ask for one. Last I checked, guidelines no longer recommend the routine annual PCP breast exams as part of a routine physical.

      1. Which is insane, because they also no longer specifically call for monthly self exams and have pushed mammos to 45, yet young cancer and br**st cancer in general is increasing at exponential rates.

         1. This is wildly misleading. There is a chart showing breast cancer rates here: https://seer.cancer.gov/statfacts/html/breast.html.

            We all know what an exponential growth rate chart looks like now. This is not one. Also — note that the death rate continues to trend down.

            1. Thanks for posting information with back-up!

         2. Monthly self-exams are no longer recommended because they were shown not to be effective. There was more harm than benefits due to the rate of false positives. Science, it’s so much better than opinion.

         3. I have a 19 year old college friend who still goes to her childhood pediatrician who handles all of her medical care. He is an old family friend, but I think at her age, she should get an OB-GYN (preferably female) as this doctor is also a frat brother of her step dad, and something smells funny about this arrangement.

            1. This is such a weird comment. Frat huh?

               My stepson has always been really healthy and stayed with his pediatrician until his college physical. Then it was campus services and finally finding a PCP when he got his first job. I don’t think it was all that strange.

   5. Mine does it. I used to try to space my GP visit and ob/gyn visits out for this reason because I’m not good about doing them myself.

3. On the morning thread, there was some commentary that implicit bias training doesn’t work. Is that in general or does it just not work for people who want to be racist?

   I’m on the board of a community organization, where both the board and staff are opposed to racism and have some knowledge about the research on implicit bias. Is it really not worth further training on implicit bias? Is there anything the organization should do instead?

   1. I’m not sure what the training is for (training for a skill or training for learning general knowledge) but if you were having catered lunches, bring in an outside speaker from a community org that might build empathy? Like someone from the Urban League or Boys & Girls Club or a Y afterschool program or a refugee resettlement program or food bank? It is hard to be your brother’s keeper if you live in a safe cozy zip code and don’t worry in some ways about your kids ever (but maybe which HYP type school the go to).

      I’m not sure whether you’d get turnout if you were doing this by zoom.

   2. Instead of training your board and staff to “fix” their own implicit bias, I’d bring in consultants to help you identify ways that bias can manifest itself in the services you provide and how you provide them, and then design structural solutions.

      1. Can you provide a more specific example of how this might work? Thanks.

         1. An example from a different field: In a law firm, mentorship and networking are critical to career advancement. The white men who run law firms tend to connect with and focus their mentoring energy on white male associates. So you create programs to connect POC and women to mentors both inside and outside the firm, including some who look like them.

            Another example: If you want to diversify your bench, you can look at career paths that lead to the bench and disparities in who pursues those career paths. You then look for ways to equalize opportunity along those career paths and to recruit judges from alternative career paths.

            Generally look at barriers to recruiting, access, etc. and how those can be mitigated. There are consultants who do this.

            1. Eh my former Big Law firm had this kind of mentoring program and it was still pretty much only white men who made partner (and the women and POC who made partner had to work much harder than white men to get there). My personal feeling is that these programs sound nice in theory but do very little in practice, and the only thing that really matters is people in power actually hiring and promoting women.

   3. It depends. There are a lot of trainings available(some of them are counterproductive), and a lot of different people with different perspectives. If your board and staff are already motivated to learn more and do better, they might benefit from more resources or opportunities to learn. If you have people who are silently opposed and don’t speak up because the whole climate is pro diversity, I don’t see how a training will make them rethink their beliefs.
      In my field, there is a push for accountability instead of training.

      1. What is accountability though? There was the example this morning about how companies have policies that directly hurt women/POC that are window dressing on “diversifying our legal spend.”

         1. I read the follow-ups to that with interest. How would people suggest that clients encourage their firms from a diversity perspective? If “we give more business to firms with diverse staffing” isn’t a good incentive I’m not entirely sure what is…

            1. Pay people what they are worth. Don’t insist on using bottom-barrel rates and then also demand that women and POC do your work.

            2. where in my question did you see that it’s bottom barrel rates?

            3. Cat, she answered your question.

            4. So, in my experience, this type of program was harmful because the partner who got credit for the client still got credit, but the diverse attorneys and women were sent out to do these mentoring sessions that weren’t really helpful and mostly involved time away from our desks. (This client also happened to pay terrible rates, so that hurt too, but I’m answering what was wrong with this type of program separate from that.) So we got nothing concrete from it at all, whereas the partner and the client got to feel good about themselves.

            5. I wonder if the answer is to demand that credit be shared with the diverse candidates.

            6. I have gained a lot of weight during pandemic, due to stress and also Cushings. This means I have a bump on the back of neck/top of shoulders and significant fat around my middle (it’s like a 1980s fanny pack…I cannot take off! I think it is also called a fat apron)

               Please help me return to office – I’m pretty senior and visible and feel very self-conscious. I am in a business casual office.

               I think I need: tops/tunics with a collar, black pants that look semi formal (not like leggings) but with a stretch waistband, dark rinse jeans also stretch waists. I am also in dire need of some good undergarments to pull in my belly and still be able to breathe.

               The tunics at J Jill have too much of an open neck for me, usually, specific products VERY welcome.

               Thank you!

      2. My anecdotal experience is that trainings to make people better managers or effective interviewing have more effect than implicit bias. I see implicit bias training as more of a “fine tuning” training for otherwise good managers, etc. If the employees and group are struggling with basic management dynamics, implicit bias could be there, but bad management/work environment is probably the more pressing issue.

         Where I’ve see the training work well is when it is coupled with other training about reacting to people you manage. One example from a training that I attended that struck me was how to recognize that some people are the type to ask questions as they come, and others are the type to wait to bring you everything at once. If you are strongly one type or the other, working with someone not your type will drive you crazy. The training very much focused on recognizing your work style and others, and learning to work together. In that context, some implicit bias training was added (as another layer of things you don’t realize), but it was more subtle than a whole day of training.

         Long way of say, make sure your house is in order and that other more basic trainings to make a more functional workplace shouldn’t be first.

   4. I would focus on trainings that are actionable. One of my favorite trainings included actually re-writing our job postings to attract more diverse candidates and also included resume review and interviewing strategies focused on removing bias from our candidate evaluations.

      1. This is a really good idea.

      2. What are some biases that you are finding? That would be interesting. Like schools you to go for recruiting? We have some schools we hire from and some where you had better be on dean’s list. We have local HBCUs and I pointed out that we could recruit from there. I get that maybe there have more generous admissions programs than, say, Harvard, but it’s not like there are no qualified people there (and Harvard kids likely wouldn’t come to our city or, if they did, take our job). We need people who want to to work for Little Teapot in Medium City.

      3. Co-sign, we revamped our hiring process as part of a DEI push and we ended up with a far better, more transparent, and more fair process from start to finish. Our first two hires under the new process ended up being WOC, too!

      4. There are also services that can be used, where you put a job posting into the online analyzer and it spits out a report on the language being used that has implied bias. A former employer used this and over time, changes to the job postings actually did change the candidate pool (made it more diverse).

         That is an example of a tangible action that can be taken, beyond training, that has a chance of making a real difference in the diversity of an organization.

   5. I highly recommend checking out David Dylan Thomas – he does a fantastic talk on design for cognitive bias. I think part of the issue with “trainings” on implicit bias is that you really have to meet people where they are, which is sometimes disappointingly far behind what you’d hope to see.

      Anyway. I thought his talk was fantastic and eye-opening, and lays a lot of the groundwork for more difficult conversations.

   6. Source: I am a consultant who works with companies on DEI issues (not exclusively, but it’s one area of focus for me)

      Implicit bias training works to educate people that implicit bias is a thing. It does not work to stop people from defaulting to their implicit biases in hiring, promoting, training, or offering opportunities to people. Those changes have to be done structurally and/or in a way where accountability is baked into the process. It’s one thing to put everyone through IB training; it’s another thing to say “and we are also tracking metrics on how many women and POCs are applying for certain positions in our company and how many of them actually get hired, and then how many actually stay for two years; managers who don’t seem to be successful in actually hiring and retaining women/POCs will be put on a performance improvement plan.” We did this in an organization I worked with, where we had heard from managers that the problem with hiring diverse employees was a limited candidate pool of diverse applicants. The actual data showed there were plenty of diverse candidates (like over 40% for most positions), they just weren’t making it through the hiring gauntlet because surprise surprise, we had a bunch of white male managers who felt like only other white males were qualified for jobs. If POCs and women did enter certain positions, they left quickly because the environment was exclusionary and unwelcoming and they didn’t feel like they belonged in the organization. Very hard for a leadership team to continue to obfuscate and deny diversity problems when hard data about minority recruitment, retention, etc. is right in their face (although some do anyway).

      You can put people through all the training in the world and if they are not held accountable to producing real results, or manifesting and maintaining behavior change, the training is useless. That actually goes for lots of topics, not just DEI. It’s one kind of commitment to bring in DEI training and make everyone go to workshops and blah blah blah. It’s quite something else for the CEO to say “by 2025 40% of our management team will be BIPOC and female” and then actually take steps to follow through and meet that goal by creating mentorship programs aimed at those employee populations, making sure leadership development programs have a minimum number of BIPOC/female participants, making sure there are women and minorities on every single hiring committee, etc.

      Please don’t get me wrong, OP, if people in your organization are hungry for information about implicit bias and want to do the training, do the training. But then take it that necessary step further and have a conversation about what you’re going to do with the information. How will you, in real life, in real time, ensure bias is not working its way into how the organization does what it does? What metrics can you measure – even if you have to create them – to ensure bias is not doing the talking with hiring, promoting, service delivery, etc.?

   7. I believe there is better support for the efficacy of bystander intervention training, and good support for unconscious bias training if optional/incentivized but not mandatory.

   8. There are studies showing that some implicit bias training approaches make people *more* racist after. This was a great Atlantic article called “Does Starbucks Understand the Science of Racial Bias?” on where things were back in ’18, and I swear they also did an article on this in ’20 (but maybe it was the NYT magazine)?

4. Loose sweaters like these always end up migrating to just hang limply at my sides rather than smoothly down from the chest.

   I’m hoping Talbots brings back the funnel neck microfleece in more colors. I nabbed the black last year and it’s the perfect stealthy “I’m actually wearing a sweatshirt but you’d never know” warm layer.

   1. Ooh that sounds lovely. If you see it again, will you link it in a comment please?

      I’m in NorCal so it’s not that cold here, but we keep the thermostat low.

   2. It’s back–on the back of the latest catalog I received! I don’t love the colorways, but it is back!

5. I’m going for classic, preppy sweaters, but I don’t actually need any more. My style inspiration at the moment is Jackie Greaney (check out her Instagram). I love a look that’s classic, functional, and New England-inspired.

6. Athleta Fleece-lined Leggings or Rainier tights (how “compression” are they vs warm/cozy)? I am one of those people who is always cold, so even hiking in these would not make me too warm. Last winter everything sold out and my cheap alternative pair has already been gifted to a friend’s highschooler.

   1. I have the Rainier tights. They’re warmer than regular Athleta tights but not as warm as you might expect for something billed as for cold weather. I have fleece-lined riding tights that are much warmer, for comparison. But they’re fine for my Southern Fall and early winter. I’m a wuss about cold weather, so even for my warmest fleece-lined pants, I layer uniqlo heat tech leggings under them if I’m going to be out in weather that’s 40-45ish or colder (that’s roughly 7 or below for the celsius fans).

      1. Oh, and they are very comfy

      2. Layering leggings isn’t that effective for truly cold weather. For layering to work, you need the top layer to be looser so that the air between the layers will get warm. That’s what keeps you warm with layers on. I prefer leggings when I ski or hike, but wearing two pairs generally doesn’t keep me warm enough.

   2. I have both. The fleece leggings are seriously warm and supportive – I used them for skiing in CO where it was 0 degrees leaving the condo in the morning. When I stepped outside in my “regular” Zella leggings to walk to the car to drive to the airport to get home, the difference was put into very sharp contrast!

      The Rainier leggings are also good for cold but more like 20-30 degrees exercising, not 0.

   3. Love the fleece-line Rainiers. I have then from a few different winters and they have held up great. Enough compression to be comfortable doing activity (hiking etc) but also cozy – I wore them almost every day last winter.

   4. Fleece lined all the way. The Rainiers are not really warm.

      1. +1 my favorite pair ended up being the llbean version over all of the athleta options.

   5. For cold-weather walks, I prefer the Lululemon lined Dance Studio pants to the Athleta fleece-lined leggings. They are more windproof. You can also look at Title 9 for soft-shell leggings that will block wind. I only wear the fleece-lined leggings as a baselayer.

   6. Sweaty Betty makes some GREAT winter leggings each season. Check them out. I returned the new rainier I bought once these arrived!

   7. I like both, but I actually wear ski pants over these types of leggings when I have to be outside for a decent period of time, like walking the dog. I know, overkill, but I hate being cold.

      1. Eddie Bauer has some fleece lined pants that I wore over base layer leggings in Iceland in January a few years ago and I was super cozy.

   8. I’ll add 2 more: I bought under Armour ones cap hill style recommended a while ago and like them. My all time favorites are Nike hyperwarm though – so warm but not bulky.

   9. Recommend OldNavy cozecore leggings instead–light compression plus warm. Love. And not pricy.

7. I have a lot of baby hairs and some grey hair that is coming in straight but with much more texture than my brown hair. The combo of baby hairs that are coarse and swell / cowlick with humidity is making me wonder if there are any grooming products (pomade) that I can use to try to keep my hair from shooting off in weird ways or even keep a pony tail to where the hair pulled back doesn’t have a lot of bushing out from where the baby hairs rebel? I have a hard time even explaining this in writing,but it’s like I have two textures of hair. I’ve tried spray (the hair laughed and did what it wanted) and even a light touch of vaseline to stick the rogue hairs down. Help!

   1. The key to taming baby hairs for me is applying product with a toothbrush. Spray from a bottle doesn’t coat finely enough.

   2. Your keyword is “edges.” There are many products, usually marketed to Black people, to keep your edges down. Edge brushes. Edge pomade. Edge gel. Edges for days. If you want to pull your hair back, spraying water and tying a scarf around your head for 10 minutes does wonders too.

      1. Tell me more. A lightbulb just went off. Where do you find edges products? And will the right thing say “edges”?

         1. Yep, the products will say “edge” or “edges.” Go to the Target or Sally Beauty website, type in “edge,” and scroll away.

         2. Landed a prior comment in mod.

            Use the word “edges” at Target or Sally Beauty. You will find many options.

   3. you might try products marketed to the postpartum crowd – dealing with hair loss and then regrowth leads to lots of awkward baby hairs in the growing-in phase.

   4. Clear mascara! I got that tip from this board, BTW, and it works wonders.

   5. Even though my brown hair had just a little wave, I switched to the Curly Girl method when grays started coming in. This really helped unify the two textures issue that you describe, although I don’t know why.

   6. I found the solution to this was to not use regular shampoo. It strips my hair too much and causes all those baby hairs to fly about. Now I use an olive oil bar soap, and have no more fly away hairs!

      1. What is curly girl method? Thanks!

         1. Curly girl method is a whole collection of ideas – easy to google but basically don’t wash with shampoo or do so rarely, don’t brush, don’t comb, “plop” after drying, and then an assortment of leave-in product options for getting your hair to dry in an nice curl pattern.

      2. Ooh what olive oil bar soap?

8. Just received confirmation that I got into my top master’s program!

   1. Congrats!

   2. Well done you!!!!

   3. Yay! Congratulations! That’s awesome!

   4. Congrats!

9. Ugh my friend had a Cabi party a weeek ago and I didn’t go bc I hate Cabi and MLMs and so forth and now my friend is pissy with me. ?

   1. I googled. Um, it’s “cabi,” lower case. Like e. e. cummings. Pass.

   2. The last social event I attended prior to shutdown in March 2020 was, ironically, a Cabi party. But the hostess (who is totally non-pushy) has been doing virtual events. Very low key. It’ll be a while before people gather indoors for this again.

      1. Depends where you live, and how seriously your social circle takes Covid. I’m sure plenty of people are currently gathering indoors for MLM parties and have been for months, if not a year or more.

   3. Uhhhh I’d be pissed at a friend that tried to sell me $120 polyester blouses.

   4. I didn’t know cabi was MLM. I’ve bought a few black tops and skirts on ebay (used) and the quality was really good. Oh well, I am also not a fan of MLM.

   5. I used to work with a very senior woman who wore all Cabi because her friend sold it, and I always felt like my coworker was 10-20 years out of date. Not because she wasn’t following current trends, but because her wardrobe was following trends from a decade or so prior.

      1. So I just spent a very engaging part of my weekend watching the Lularich documentary, and I thought it would have been improved with some explanation of maxi skirts and leggings as broader, earlier trends that happened to work perfectly for the LLR target demographic for a period of time. (A lot of the commentary has focused on how little the documentary focused on the manufacture of the the clothes, which is quite fair.)

         Related: I got very little LLR solicitation from anyone when it was big, just a couple emails from high school “friends.” Interestingly enough, I got a sh*tload of Rodan & Fields solicitations from fellow school moms, all of which I declined/ignored, though I bought some at a school auction and thought it was fine (if a little overpriced).

10. Since it’s Friday afternoon and I am don’t seem to want to work, can we talk frankly about b-augmentation? I’m very small (often can’t find tops that fit), and even when I was pregnant, I only barely got to B, and since then (several years), I feel like they’ve faded away to almost nothing. It’s not even mostly an appearance issue – I want there to be physically more, fuller, more resistance. (Husband hasn’t complained at all, but I feel this.)

    I’ve tossed the idea around for years, even had a consult a decade ago, but all the usual concerns (safety, money, recovery, being a plastic surgery person, what would my family/coworkers think, etc.) slows me down. But a friend who has them (and is close to my size otherwise) commented the other day that she feels so much more womanly with them, and, as someone who sometimes visits the kids section for tops, that spoke to me, and I’ve thought about it a lot more lately.

    Anyone have experiences (your own or observed) to share?

    1. I have a friend who had it done about 20 years ago, and she was/is still very happy with the results. Naturally she was A, and went up to about a C I guess. She looks great, but she’d look great either way to me. The important thing is she’s happy, and if you think it would make you happy to, do some more research, and if its the right choice for you, don’t worry about what people will think.

    2. I had implants done about 6 years after my last child was born. Had asymmetry following breast feeding. It wasn’t terrible but enough that it made self-conscious. I had implants done about one year ago and am very pleased. Surgery was very easy. Recovery was also pretty easy as well. I would recommend it so long as you can find a great surgeon with tons of referrals. I went to a C from a very deflated A/B.

    3. I’m a fellow A-cupper, but I’m personally too concerned that there will be weird unexplained health issues and I would constantly wonder if they were due to the implants. What I don’t worry about, however, is being a plastic surgery person or what other people would think. I had to find a plastic surgeon for my daughter recently for a cosmetic issue and I was amazed by the skill and compassion of people who work at these surgeons’ offices (I was icked out by the pics some of their website, but that’s another issue). I also don’t think most people can tell if someone has had plastic surgery or not and that it doesn’t matter if they have – you have your own life to live. I am fine wearing padded bras for myself, but if you’ve been thinking about it that long and still want to do it, you do you.

    4. I had them done about 10 years ago and it was one of the best decisions I’ve ever made. I’m naturally incredibly flat and hold fat on my bottom half, and even when I gained weight it didn’t change anything. So tops and bras would gape, there was no hope of buying a dress that fitted, etc.

       Honestly, I don’t care what people think because I did it for me, and tbh I’m someone who normally overthinks other peoples opinion of me so it’s been surprising. That said I don’t tell people and 10 years on, my coworkers etc didn’t know me before and likely wouldn’t guess.

       I am a bit concerned about upkeep and put money away regularly in case they need redoing or removal. The other downside for me is that because I have zero natural fat there, it is very obvious in a bikini or undressed, and they feel obvious (I assume if you have more naturally that’s not the case). That also means they are not as malleable as natural ones of the same size so I can’t really push them up or anything.

       It’s serious surgery and there are risks and downsides (look up implant illness). I spent a month off work recovering. But the older I get, the more I figure, what does any of it matter. I wanted to make a change and I went out and did it, same as how I worked to change my career path or anything else. And it genuinely improved my quality of life.

    5. If you’ve been thinking about something for years, it’s OK to re-open the logistical process. Price it out. Talk to women who have them. Talk to your spouse. Ask yourself “what do you fear people would think of you?” “What do I fear I would think of myself?”

       I just — I see shame in your comment, and I just want to validate that your desires are not morally wrong, and if you’ve cogitated on them for a long time, it’s OK to seriously embrace and explore them. Good luck with the process!

       1. Love this!

    6. My sister got it done after her second kid when she was getting divorced (husband cheated on her and left her for a woman with giant fake b00bs so I always wonder if that had something to do with it) but she didn’t go huge, she went very natural. She says she’s a c cup now, I don’t think abrathatfits would call it a c cup, it would be a bigger cup size, but plastic surgeons have their own language around cup sizes. Just know that going into it. They also exercise some judgment when you’re under about what size implant is going to look best so know that too – her surgeon ended up going a tad larger than they’d agreed to.

       She hasn’t had any problems with them and they did help her confidence enormously. And she had another baby with her second husband and managed to breastfeed her son for a good while. I think she’d tell you without hesitation to go for it.

    7. I’m on the other end of the scale, and am regularly thinking about reduction (US cup size M/L )

       One bit of advice I’d like to give from the very well endowed, is to try some fakes, and try out the feeling, in public.

       Buy some “chicken cutlets” and bras in bigger cup sizes (but your own band size), start with C or D, maybe even some water balloons filled with sugar or water, and walk around both at home and in public. You might get a fab confidence boost and love it to pieces, or you may be freaked out by the creepy dudes staring or annoyed by the constant jiggling and shoulder aches. But it’s always better to know! Best of luck!

       1. I read that as Medium/Large and I thought, hey I wear a Medium-Large and my boobs aren’t that big, and then I realized what you ACTUALLY meant. My shoulders hurt in solidarity.

    8. I have a friend who got implants this year and her only regret is waiting as long as she did. If you want to get them, go ahead! Obviously be really careful about which doctor you use. Do your research, etc. I’d also be prepared financially to have complications and need them removed. I’m just an over planner like that. My friend also said her recovery was awful so do it when you have enough down time. The week recovery was not her situation.

11. I just replied late on the morning thread but for those interested in the airplane “foot sling” concept — this is the kind of thing I’m talking about. I have no idea exactly which model I have but something like this. It’s great for short legs – especially for overnight flights!!

    https://www.amazon.com/Mind-Reader-FTPLANE-BLK-Ergonomic-Multi-Purpose/dp/B07ZGDT9V1/ref=sr_1_4?dchild=1&keywords=foot+sling+for+plane&qid=1631907646&sr=8-4

    1. Oh, the person in that seat in front must hate anyone who uses this.

       1. Agreed. I’d much rather see a design that attaches to the user’s OWN seat.

          1. They aren’t noticeable to the person in front of you. The most movement they feel is from you opening the tray table, when you go to attach it.

             I used one of my last couple of long haul flights and they made a huge difference in being able to nap more comfortably and not getting horribly swollen feet.

             I’m 5’6 but have short legs.

             While we are talking plane etiquette, I’m so grateful to everyone who doesn’t wear perfume and sticks to unscented hand sanitiser and wipes if cleaning their seat.

       2. In my earlier comment I did say that you need to be respectful – lightly placing your feet in the sling doesn’t jerk their chair around.

    2. Can’t you also pull out your underseat carryon bag and rest your feet on that instead? I would be weirded out by someone pulling at my seat, even if it’s done respectfully or lightly.

       1. +1 use your own bag as a footrest.

       2. +1 t
          That’s what I do, if I need a footrest. I’m 5f 6, though, I’m guessing the sling is for more petite heights?

          HATE pressure on my own plane seat from the back, and really do not ever want to have anybody with this kind of sling behind me, just like I hate kids kicking me in the kidneys from behind.

    3. How short are you guys!? Airplane seats are not high. I’m pretty sure my 6 year old’s feet reach the floor.

       1. I’m 5’3″ and my toes touch the ground, but I can’t comfortably put my feet flat on the floor (not sure if this is also related to the seat being a little too deep, knee to hip?). My head also hits at the wrong place in the head rest, pushing my head forward instead of supporting the back of my neck. I’m sure it’s better than being too big for the seat, but I certainly wouldn’t call it comfortable. To be fair, this is not unique to plane seats- I have trouble getting my feet flat on the ground in most chairs, including my office chair, and instead always end up sitting in convoluted postures with one foot tucked under me, legs crossed, etc. since that’s more comfortable than leaving my legs swinging, but is terrible for my posture overall.

       2. I’m 5’0″ and wear a 25″ inseam.

          1. Hit reply too soon.

             It’s not only that my feet don’t touch the ground, it’s the the seat depth is too long, so my knees are too far back on the seat to naturally curve over the edge of the seat. So I can scoot and slouch to get my legs to a 90-degree angle, or sit with my legs straight out.

    4. I use these, and they do not bother the person in the seat ahead unless one is being a jerk about it. I always bring one on long haul flights.

12. On the DEI topic on this morning’s thread, someone wrote “FWIW, firms that demand DEI info from their work partners often push them into rate structures where the longer you are on it, the worse you are paid relative to rack rates. That is the worst possible outcome from a DEI perspective to the extent that there are women and POC actually doing your company’s work. If you can effect change on this, I beg you to look at the actual math and consider whether you are doing anyone any favors with how your org chooses to reward people doing good work for it.”

    Could someone expand on this comment? I’m in-house, use D&I as a metric in evaluating outside counsel, and would love to make sure I’m appropriately making a correct evaluation in light of the comment above.

    1. No OP, but this is clearly a dig at multi-year fee agreements.

    2. Anecdata, but female litigator here. I am strongly in favor of caring about giving women opportunities. I absolutely *hate* D&I being a metric used to evaluate firms. Once you’re past, say, year 5 as a female firm litigator, you’re a rare commodity because firms have attritioned so many women out. So if a client has D&I as a metric, you’re going to get thrown into the pitch deck as a way to fill the quota. It doesn’t matter if the opportunity will give you the skills or experience you need to make a credible run for partner.

       To give one example: I was working on a really major case and got approached by a partner to ask if she could include me in a pitch deck for a matter she was “sure we wouldn’t get” *explicitly* because “the client wants more women on the case team.”

       Of course, we got the case. The client team was absolutely lovely, but the case was a run of the mill, small damages case, and I got slotted into a worse role than I’d had on the larger case. Would estimate that that first case probably had a damages profile about 40-50x higher than the second one (and my realization rate got shot to hell along the way, because lower damages = lower realization most of the time). In other words — on every level, continuing on the first case would have been better for my career and helped set me up to make partner. Instead, I worked a non-prestige case for the two years it took us to settle it.

       I’ve never felt more like a quota. They back-filled me on the interesting case with a white man, btw. It’s such a good idea. It sucks so much in practice.

       1. Previous in-house poster here. Thank you for such a thoughtful response and raising the second-order implications of D&I metrics/quotas. If you were to change how D&I metrics were used and evaluated by in-house counsel, what changes would you suggest?

          I definitely want to support D&I at our outside firms as much as possible, but then to your point, I also want to support careers of my female outside counsel who want to move up in the law firm ranks.

13. Moderna’s marketing team is so much better than Pfizer’s. “Spikevax” is such a cool name!

    1. That name emphasizes the fact that it’s a vaccine, though. Could they just call it “Spike”?

       Not really even kidding.

       1. People know it’s a vaccine.

       2. Should they also call the iPhone “i”? What is this comment lol

    2. Also, apparently it creates more antibodies. I was annoyed at having to wait an extra week between doses but now I feel it was worth it to get Moderna. My mom and my childcare provider also got Moderna so hoping we remain safe. The rest of my family got Pfizer.

       1. Please stop it. They are both excellent vaccines.

          1. Indeed. But Moderna is proven to be more effective.

          2. They’re both excellent but there’s considerable data that Moderna is better (at least with respect to waning immunity) and there’s nothing wrong with saying that.

          3. Eh I’m as pro vaccine as they come and I’m still a little jealous that my husband got Moderna! I’m overjoyed to be vaccinated at all, but my waning immunity envies his longer lasting immunity.

       2. #PfizerGang didn’t age well :-(

    3. Spikevax rules! Every time I hear “comirnaty” I think of Moira Rose drunk on fruit wine.

       1. Lol yes.

          1. It’s a name you won’t forget – comrbisnqgy

    4. Right?!

    5. So happy to be #TeamSpikevax! Also love that I got the vaccine that Dolly Parton helped fund.

14. Accidentally posted on the last thread, thanks to those who replied – Resources for talking about debt with my fiancé? We’re starting to dig deep in our conversations about finances and it’s clear we have very different perspectives on things like debt and investments. He views all debt as bad and deeply mistrusts the market. I have a mortgage that’s under 3% and a car loan under 1% (I plan to keep this car for 10+ years just like every other car I’ve ever had), and I’m not under water. Car and mortgage together cost less than 20% of my take home pay. My 401k and investment accounts are doing great and the balance is higher than my outstanding debt.

    He seems to see it as a problem that I have “so much debt.” He can’t understand why I keep money in investment accounts when I could use that money to be completely debt free. If I were a math person I could probably explain it better but I’m not at all. We come from very different socioeconomic backgrounds so I want to be sensitive and not seem like I’m talking down to him. Maybe having some resources or easy to use calculators would help? Suggestions?

    1. You are right that mathematically the interest from investments is likely to be higher than the interest paid on low interest rates debts, but it’s not unreasonable for someone to place value on being debt free and to want to pay off debts sooner. I don’t think either of you is “wrong” but your approach is probably more common. I think your choices are maintain entirely separate finances and each handle your money how you see fit, or compromise and pay down the debt faster than you would like and slower than he would like.

    2. Not sure if you’ll see this, but this isn’t uncommon at all.

       My husband is obsessed with paying off our mortgage – just from a psychological level. Even though it doesn’t make sense financially. Just talk honestly and openly.

       Also acknowledge that for some people – particularly those who were raised in a family where it wasn’t certain there would be enough money/food/resources – any debt can feel like chains on you. I think that focusing on the shared values – no consumer debt, minimal debt, etc. – is the best course here.

    3. I just googled “ investment rate vs debt” and a bunch came up. If I were him I’d see the car debt as a bigger issue bc depreciating asset, but 1% is great.

       1. Eh the depreciating asset thing is a question of whether you should purchase it at all, not whether you should finance it. From a mathematical perspective, if you’re paying the same price up front either way, it’s a question of whether you can do better than 1% risk-free as you pay off the car over time.

    4. I want to recommend the book A simple path to wealth, by Jim Collins. I think what you both probably need is some financial education that you can discuss together. I think financial decisions are both an emotional and an education thing, and, if you don’t have some math and some charts to look at it will stay a purely emotional thing. I wish I could direct you to some good calculators – those certainly exist (things like “rate of return” calculators); alas, I’m a weird engineer that just makes my own spreadsheets for everything. (IF you have the interest in learning to do that, I can say that it’s extremely helpful. Compound interest is not intuitive, our brains ore not good at estimating the long term effects, and being able to see the numbers is really really powerful). But I will affirm that the vast majority of the time your approach will yield significantly higher wealth at retirement age. You might have a few ups and downs along the way, but if you don’t need that money to live on at that moment, you just ignore. His approach will leave you very vulnerable to the effects of inflation – nearly invisible on an annual basis, and thus often ignored by people with low risk tolerance, but very powerful over the long term.

15. Any tips for very gracefully withdrawing from an interview process? A lot of time passed since I first applied and the interviews began and in the intervening time I got a large raise and a few other positive things at Current Company. Very small, niche industry and I adored everyone involved in the interview process for New Company. Things look positive for my candidacy. It would be a lateral move to a more desirable but higher COL city. The math doesn’t work based on the comp offer and I def don’t want to waste any more of their time. However I want to stay professionally connected and just generally leave a really positive impression on the recruiter and New Company. I’ve done some googling on scripts but all advice welcome – specifically what you’d prefer if you were in New Company’s position.

    1. I would try to get the job offer and negotiate, if money is the main issue.

    2. Are you sure there is no further negotiating comp. potential new company? Unless they are asking something from you I’m not sure you need to do anything or are wasting their time, so maybe just hang tight until they reach back out.

16. I’m one of the commenters with a financially anxious spouse (not the OP). I’ve been home all day in a house with an empty kitchen, hungry, because DH insisted he would pick up my groceries and failed to do so. I just bought all of the groceries I wanted from Whole Foods and paid $10 extra for delivery. I’m so pleased. I know this is going to be an argument, but at least I won’t be hangry.

17. Based on threads from earlier this week, it looks like there’s some serious runners out there in corporette-land :-). I am running my first ever marathon in a few weeks and would love any and all last – minute tips that you might have! I’m a long time gym rat but just started running outside during covid and actually really love it! But I am slow as mud and have never done any length race before… no half marathon or anything like that. Fully expect this to take 5 hours! I’m in taper now, and have a serious-runner friend kind of talking me through it, but would love to hear other perspectives also.

    1. So jealous — I’m currently injured but can’t wait to get back to training. A couple of quick thoughts:

       — Take the taper seriously. Don’t do more than your program suggests or feel bad for the sudden laziness; your muscles are building themselves back up.
       –Stock up on sleep and hydration the last three days before the race, rather than put the pressure on yourself the night before for a good night’s rest. Decent chance you will sleep fitfully the night before (nerves! will I oversleep? what was I thinking?!) but you can be well rested and ready if you prioritize sleep for several days.
       — Don’t eat anything new those last several days. Don’t wear anything new race day. Unless you have run in the exact same model for a while, don’t race in sneakers that have fewer than 75 or 100 miles on them.
       — If you are well hydrated ahead of time, you don’t have to keep guzzling water before the start. I like to make sure I have my last sip at least 45 minutes before the start so that I can hit the porta-potty. I refuse to lose minutes to pee midrace.
       — Consider whether you want to carry some sort of Body Glide (I think they make minis) or a squeezable lip balm that can double as Vaseline. I have had chafing and hot spots pop up after 20 long sweaty miles that I haven’t had before, and when my skin is chafing I get a little (disproportionately) panicked. That may be very specific to me as a person, though :)
       — Literally everyone has or will tell you to start slow, but that it because it is so difficult to do! Take it seriously. I ran my second marathon 26 minutes faster than my first, even though I went through the first 13 miles about 10 minutes slower. The crash when you go out too fast is real!
       — Have flip flops and a dry shirt in the bag you leave at the baggage drop.
       — Seriously consider booking a post race massage. I am not a massage girl generally, but it is the best. I know Chicago used to have them on site in the hospitality tent (which was well worth the money to me).

       I could go on, but hopefully these help. Good luck — first marathon is such a blast.

       1. Thanks! Appreciate the tidbit about sleep – it’s not a local race so I’ll be spending the night before in a hotel which is guaranteed to lead to iffy sleep, so I will work on prioritizing sleep the week prior.
          Also 99% sure it will be that time of the month. I am wearing black shorts :-)

18. A dear friend just found out her husband has been cheating and has fallen in love with his new partner. They are planning to separate. They have two girls (ages 11 and 12). They have decided she will retain the home and have full custody with him having visitation and he will move not far away, where the new partner is likely moving in immediately or soon. It’s tough but she is not shocked because he had had casual affairs before and she overlooked them but he hadn’t fallen for someone before which is why this ends things. (Of course, almost no one in their life knows he has had other affairs for most of their lengthy marriage)

    She wants things to remain as cordial for the kids as possible and not have them hate their father or his partner, whom she understands will be key parts of her daughters’ lives. He has expressed concerns that everyone will hate him. Friend is hoping to make this as easy on the children as possible including not having people who love her express hatred toward him.

    She is leaning on me as one of few who knows the whole story and background but I have no experience here. While I am offering the obvious support, I wonder if anyone here has some experience or insights or advice. I’d be happy to pass it on to her as she would welcome it. Thank you, I am so grateful for the hive here that helps me to be a great friend in times when I am uncertain or have no guidance to offer!

    1. Let me guess – he’s on the road for work 95 percent of the time? This sounds EXACTLY like the cheating husband story from the other day, except told from the “wife’s” perspective, right down to the ages of the kids. Are you the other woman? Are you trying to assuage your guilt about this situation? I’m so confused.

       1. Ding ding ding

       2. Yup.

       3. Yeah this is really getting old.

    2. She needs to line up a therapist for the kids and probably also for herself even if just for a few sessions so she can get advice and strategies from a professional. My friend was the other woman in this scenario (it was a THING and we stopped being friends for a while but anyway) and while it finally worked out where everyone is happy and healthy (her now step kids included) it was UGLY. It’s great that they think they can stay cordial and all that, but she needs to have the resources available to support the kids and also for herself.

       You should of course continue to support her as a friend, but I would not recommend going down the advice path here. Leave that to the pros.

    3. Dude. I just can’t imagine being your friend and giving a d@rn if people hated him. She’s a really good person. I would not want anyone to speak ill of my kids’ father around them, I get that. But sooner or later it’s going to become obvious to the kids that the father broke up the family to be with his girlfriend. I think it’s ok for them to hate him for that. That’s kind of the choice he made right?

       Also he doesn’t want custody?! That’s very dramatic, as I understand 50/50 is the default. Seems like he’s really not interested in these kids. I think friend should concentrate on herself and her kids and forget what anyone thinks about this dude.

    4. The blogger Hungry Runner Girl went through something similar and wrote about how important it was to her that her daughter had a good relationship with her father and how she (HRG) would never do anything to poison it. I think she said “my daughter will never hear me criticize her father.” I thought it was very magnanimous of her and that it has resulted in what looks like a very happy blended family. She has some good posts about getting through it all that could help your friend.

       1. If I were the daughter, I’d still hate this guy though. I wouldn’t want to be “poisoned,” but I wouldn’t want to be pressured in the other direction either.

          1. +1. There’s a difference between “don’t talk bad about ex in front of the kids” which I agree is a worthy goal, and “force the kids to like their dad” which isn’t possible or even worth striving for. (Although the divorced women I know were all happy to trash talk the ex with friends when the kids weren’t around, which makes me think this post is not real.)

          2. Me, too. At these ages, the children will have their own opinions. Practically speaking, the fact that the father wants visitation and not equal custody means he isn’t prioritizing time with them. Based on what is written here, it is challenging to view him in a positive or neutral light.

       2. HRG’s daughter was a toddler when her first marriage ended. An 11 and 12 year old will understand that their father cheated, immediately moved in with the other woman, and doesn’t want to share custody of them, and it would be a shock if their relationship with him didn’t suffer as a result of his choices. I agree that it’s always good for divorced parents to be amicable in front of the kids, even if the beyond-the-scenes stuff was brutal (and it’s hard to imagine it getting more brutal than this) but…these kids are practically teens and they’re going to feel how they want to feel.

    5. I’m a bit shocked to hear you refer to his side piece as a partner – that is earned more than wife/husband and waaaay more than gf/bf imho. But I suppose it’s a good sign that you’re on her side.

       1. Yeah, that woman is his mistress.

    6. This whole question is framed around protecting the husband’s reputation instead of supporting the children and wife. Instead of trying to control what the children think and what other people say, I would focus on supporting the children and wife through this difficult time in whatever way may help, whether that is just being a regular positive presence or something else.

       1. That’s why I think it’s the poster from last week who previously wrote about the cheating husband who’d met someone he wanted to get more serious with. This whole post is waaay too concerned with how the husband and his new “partner” are affected for it to be a genuine question from the wife’s friend.

          1. I also think last week’s / this week’s poster is either tr0lling or is the other woman. Give it a rest, OP.

             For what it’s worth, my sister was in this situation – the divorce and new woman anyway, not the looking the other way business – and she went through therapy with her kids, as well as individual therapy for both herself and each child. She didn’t badmouth ex husband at all, while he and especially the new wife spent plenty of time badmouthing her.

             Kids figure it out on their own. It’s inevitable. My niblings are late teens/young adults now and want nothing to do with their bio dad and particularly nothing to do with step mom, who is just a miserable person all around. They saw their father with their own eyes for who he was and is, and have chosen not to have a relationship as soon as they were old enough to make that choice on their own.

             1. I love the word ‘niblings’

          2. You know, I usually don’t play this game but I’ll take it one step further. I suspect this poster is also the same one who earlier said her “friend” was seeing a married man while he traveled for work, and that his wife allowed him to do so as long as it was only one person at a time. She wanted advice for the “friend.”

             So to sum it up, we think OP is dating a married man, looking for ways to make it ok for him to leave his wife, and posting about the situation here from various different hypothetical perspectives.

             1. Ooh, I missed that one at the time (I took a break from reading here for a while) but I think it’s this post?
                https://corporette.com/weekend-open-thread-533/#comment-4210110
                And yes I totally agree all three fact patterns are the same poster writing from three different perspectives. I mean, yeah, lots of people cheat but there aren’t this many men that are on the road for work fulltime (especially in pandemic times) and have wives who give them permission to have affairs.

             2. Yes, that’s the one.

                The consensus is also that he doesn’t have such “permission,” he just tells the other women he does.

    7. So, counterpoint to the typical “never speak ill of the other parent” advice… My parents divorced when I was in middle school – my mom had sole custody and diligently never said a bad word about my father. But! It was so confusing to me to have a father who suddenly didn’t take care of me or make an effort for me, and ultimately it was really damaging that my family and community sent only the message that this was perfectly fine behavior. This is all very circumstance-specific, of course, but if the father really takes the opportunity to check out here I think it is actually really necessary to help the kids understand that they deserve more, and that it isn’t right, even if the father can’t provide it.

       1. THIS! They are going to hate their father, at least for some period of time (and maybe also their blame or belittle or hate their mother at some other point). Messaging that it is perfectly fine for their father to have cheated on their mother and broken up the family and that their mother deserves this and should simply move along it is not helping them to develop healthy relationships for themselves. This is the exact age when that kind of messaging counts the most. Don’t speak ill of him, sure, but don’t just accept it or whitewash it or deny them their feelings.

          1. I think the fact that he doesn’t want any custody of them is likely to do an even bigger number on their self-esteem and future relationships than the cheating/divorce. And I think it’s fair for the mom to tell the kids that dad did a really sh1tty thing (maybe not with that word) by abandoning them and will eventually regret it. My two cents is that if one parent is abdicating their parenting responsibilities, a lot of the divorce “rules” go out the window. I think the “never speak ill of your ex in front of the kids” is more of a rule of thumb for the (very common) situation where the parents are furious with each other but are both devoted to the kids and sharing custody.

             1. If he is going to have visitation, as suggested, I doubt they are even going to know he doesn’t have “custody.”

             2. The previous comments made it very clear he wants basically nothing to do with the kids. Even if he were actually going to have them every other weekend or something like that, I disagree that the kids won’t notice or care. 50-50 parenting time is now the norm even in my socially and politically conservative state. Dad getting the kids every other weekend feels like a very dated 1980s/90s thing to me. A kid who doesn’t spend much with their dad is absolutely going to notice that their parents don’t share time like their friends’ parents do, and feel hurt.

19. It sounds like they are putting the kids first, which is great, no advice other than that they keep doing that and maybe that they each go to therapy so there is a place to talk through the hurtful feelings they do not want the kids to see.

    You are a good friend to support her through this!

20. My husband surprised me with a shopping trip to upgrade all of my gym clothes! (This was an excellent gift because I spend a lot of time in gym clothes and I’ve always struggled with spending a lot of money on clothes for myself, so my attire is quite worn out).

    We went to Lululemon, Nike, and Athleta so I could try things on in the store. TL:DR if you have muscular and/or curvy legs and booty, Athleta pants are awesome. Here’s some more detailed reviews, in case they’re helpful:

    My body: athletic/muscular/curvy, usually wear a size 4 in pants and dresses, 34D/DD bust, 5′ 6″, 125-130 lbs.

    Athleta: The real winner here! I got the Ultimate Stash pants in full-length and 7/8, and I might purchase a pair of the cinch style as well. The medium fit my quads, gluts, AND waist! Super soft fabric, lots of color and length options. I also purchased the Ultimate Textured sports bra in a size L. The coverage is not high enough on my chest to work for high-impact training, but good for low-impact weight training days, long walks/day hikes, etc. Their tank tops didn’t work for me, they were huge. I tried the Ultimate Train tank and it was too big in an XS, and I tried the Momentum tank and it just fit really weird/I didn’t like the rubber grips along the bottom hem. I might check online for more styles, since the pants were such a great find. I bought the Mindset sweater in size XS (it was a toss-up between the XS Cloudlight Stratus top, which was super cute and so soft, but I wanted a little more warmth for this layering piece).

    Lulu: nice fit and finish, material feels very high quality, they offered hemming so I got 2″ taken off a pair of pants. Really great selection of pant styles and colors, but most of them felt quite tight. I sized up to a 6. Tried on the Air bra but I don’t like the traditional back clasp and it felt like it was too wide-set across the bust for my shape (digging into my upper armpits). I bought one of the tank tops but TBD if I keep it because it’s puckering a bit at the armpits and doesn’t fall quite right on the torso. Nice vibrant blue color, but the fit is a bit off in size 4, but didn’t want to size up because it was already so loose in the torso.

    Nike: Definite difference in the quality between Lulu/Athleta and Nike. Their pants felt VERY tight, I sized up to a M and gave up trying to get into two pairs of leggings. But the medium in the pair I did manage to put on was loose in the waist, so I didn’t bother sizing up to the large. But it felt tight on the ankles and around the knees? I did purchase a pretty standard longline sports bra in a size M. The large was more comfortable but didn’t have enough compression to keep me in place for jumping jacks. I wore the M sports bra this morning and it performed well (I normally wear two sports bras).

    I really like racerback tank tops, as they leave plenty of room for my lats and bust. Any recs for high-quality workout tanks to complement my new workout pants?

21. Help requested from those with more recent experience with graduate programs – my experience is 25 years old!

    – do top MBA program still want a couple years work experience?
    – how do you compare a masters in economics vs an MBA? (sorry I know that is a broad question)
    – do most grad schools primarily just look at gpa and test scores?
    – overall what do you think the most useful graduate degree is within the business/finance/global policy realm?

    Yes I’m asking for my kid who is a double major history and economics with a CS minor at a mid tier state university. Gpa is around a 3.9 and his test scores are historically very high (he scored a 1500 on first sitting of SAT with no prep) – he is an absolute whiz on all things related to economics and global history and current events. Any advice appreciated!

    1. My sister just graduated from a top 5 MBA program (and also earned her JD there). This is what she said:
       – yes, get at least a year of work experience
       – what are his goals? An MBA is generally for favored by the employers she was considering (finance, banking) before deciding to work in law for at least a year. If he wants something more academic he should do a masters in economics.
       – gpa, test scores get you through first round of cuts. You need solid letters of recommendation and a good interview.
       – MBA is most applicable within business and finance. Global policy would be something more like the MA/MS Econ.

    2. Business/ finance / global policy is super broad. Would recommend a few years of work experience to refine interests and gain insights that will make any program more useful. Maybe start with consulting?

    3. Agree with Anon. The management consulting company I work for hires a lot of MBAs and sponsors employees to attend MBA programs. The company has some deep connections with Top 10 schools. I would recommend at least 2-3 years of industry experience with a company known to have a good rep with top MBA programs. He might also be able to get his MBA paid for. (This advice assumes a business trajectory, not an academic or policy trajectory).

    4. If he wants to work on economic policy, he needs a PhD in economics. If he wants to get rich running a hedge fund, he needs an MBA. There isn’t really such a thing as a terminal master’s degree in economics in the U.S. The closest thing is probably an MPP with a heavy econ/quant component, but an MPP focuses on applied research.

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