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January sales are always a great time to hunt for statement coats — after all, you might not want to wear a hot pink wool coat every single day.
(ALTHOUGH: you could with this one — I can't think of any totally clashing colors.)
In general, Sam Edelman coats have been reader favorites because of their affordability and their warmth. The pictured coat looks like a great basic for all outfits; long enough for skirts and the oversized look means you can easily fit blazers beneath it.
It was $220, but is now marked to $150 in sizes XS-XXL; it's also available in black. Both colors have pretty good availability in all of the sizes. (This single-breasted coat is the same sale price if you prefer single-breasted though!)
There are lots of nice finds in lucky sizes, though, so do take a swing through your size if you're on the hunt – lots of Soia & Kyo, Fleurette, Harris Wharf London (love), and Dries van Noten (obsessed with half of them!) in the sale. And if you like lux moto coats and the like, do take a look at the Akris sale options.
(This Fleurette coat is a similarly bright pink if you're open to buying an $1100 coat marked down to $750.)
This post contains affiliate links and Corporette® may earn commissions for purchases made through links in this post. For more details see here. Thank you so much for your support!
Sales of note for 10.10.24
- Nordstrom – Extra 25% off clearance (through 10/14); there's a lot from reader favorites like Boss, FARM Rio, Marc Fisher LTD, AGL, and more. Plus: free 2-day shipping, and cardmembers earn 6x points per dollar (3X the points on beauty).
- Ann Taylor – Extra 50% off sale (ends 10/12)
- Banana Republic Factory – Up to 50% off everything plus extra 25% off your $125+ purchase
- Boden – 10% off new styles with code; free shipping over $75
- Eloquii – Extra 50% off a lot of sale items, with code
- J.Crew – 40% off sitewide
- J.Crew Factory – 50% off entire site, plus extra 25% off orders $150+
- Lo & Sons – Fall Sale, up to 35% off
- M.M.LaFleur – Save 25% sitewide
- Neiman Marcus – Sale on sale, up to 85% off
- Spanx – Lots of workwear on sale, some up to 70% off
- Talbots – 50% off 2+ markdowns
- Target – Circle week, deals on 1000s of items
- White House Black Market – Buy one, get one – 50% off full price styles
Anon
The vitriol directed at the woman struggling with self-esteem issues about her jowls made me want to just send a quick note: it’s okay to have toxic thoughts and feelings sometimes! We all do! This is an anonymous board where you can shout those out if you feel. Sometimes it really feels like women on here immediately jump to “You’re gross for having these thoughts I don’t like” and there’s a very low tolerance for any type of thought that isn’t perfectly healthy or rational. I get no one owes you a kind response, but just wanted to say it’s not crazy to not always have perfect thoughts or self-talk. We’re human, it’s normal. Sending out some love to anyone today who’s feeling bad about something they’d be ashamed to tell people in real life they were thinking.
Anon
I don’t think anyone called *her* gross, they said the comments were gross. There’s a huge difference. Fwiw, I’m all for plastic surgery, Botox, hair dye, etc. if it makes someone happy (and I don’t think this community is anti-cosmetic procedures, I think its generally very supportive of them), but the comment was filled with all kinds of negative body talk that wasn’t necessary to ask the question. It’s also incredibly misogynistic because no one talks about men’s bodies that way, and I don’t think such blatant misogyny has a place in a woman’s forum.
SC
+1. And just because this is an anonymous forum doesn’t mean people should feel free to spout every toxic thought they have with no self-reflection. I enjoy this space because posters are more thoughtful than that. I’d prefer not to read a comment referring to the aging process as “ravaging,” or comparing women’s appearances to dogs of any breed. (And especially as an initial post, I was taken aback by the comment before having a choice to collapse it.) I am not against cosmetic procedures and may even have them one day. I was actually interested in the information about which procedures people get for this.
Anon
Both my parents had the jowls, as I do increasingly. We all kind of resemble certain dogs breeds, men and women alike. I choose to think of the resemblance to dogs as a compliment, because dogs are the best.
Anon
We don’t deserve dogs.
I would say the same about cats, but since we don’t “have” them, they have us, it’s not really as apt.
anon
Hasn’t anyone else been called a dog? I sure have — when I was a 13-year-old and not a jowl in sight. That’s not an insult you forget, unfortunately. It is a very negative thing to (unfavorably) compare a human face to an animal’s. I’m going to assume that the OP was trying to be humorous, but it really didn’t land.
Anonymous
“I choose to think of the resemblance to dogs as a compliment”… well you do you, I guess. Clearly that was never an insult you experienced as a child -from adults who should know better- because you weren’t one of the conventionally pretty girls.
aaaaand i'm thirteen again
Just chiming into the chorus as another woman who was called uglier than a dog by middle school bullies. It’s not true, obviously, and I know that now, but the comment this morning evoked that memory for me (and several other women here, apparently) and it would have been a-okay with me to leave that particular memory dormant forever.
Anon
OP was expressing her own feelings about her own changing face/body. Who are you or anyone here to tell her that she’s being gross? What’s gross is shaming women for their very real, very valid views on their own aging. You can be supportive and even call out negative self talk without being rude and hurtful to the person experiencing it. But what I saw today was a bunch of rude, hurtful, holier than thou women piling on to someone who was just asking for advice. This can be a really toxic place and I think some of you should take a long hard look in the metaphorical mirror and ask yourselves why you feel the need to be so mean to internet strangers.
Anon
+1,000. Saying “it sounds like you have some negative feelings you should work on rather than focusing on the jowls” is totally different than calling her gross and saying she’s being horrible and sexist.
There’s a lot of anger and frustration that people take out on internet strangers on here that you can feel is pulsing and raw.
No Face
Agree. I have funny, self-deprecating conversations with men and women about the horror show of what happens to our faces and bodies as we age all the time. That’s how some of us talk!
If I want to stay I have Shar Pei skin on my belly from having kids, that is a funny way to let you know the type of skin I am describing. It doesn’t mean that I think all moms are dogs, or whatever.
Anon
Exactly. If anything, I think speaking that candidly about it normalizes aging and doesn’t make it something so precious to tiptoe around. I’d rather be able to say I have messed up skin from sun damage than have someone say ‘how dare you make note of that, it’s the most horrible thing in the world to acknowledge.’ I think implicit there is that aging as a woman is so horrible you can’t ever express the reality of it, rather than it’s just a neutral thing you’re reflecting on with humor.
B
If OP doesn’t like her jowls of course she’s entitled to feel that way! But having an internal thought is different than posting on a public forum that jowls make women look like bulldogs and chipmunks. For another reader who already doesn’t like her face how is she supposed to feel after reading that imagery? And why did OP’s arms have anything to do with advice about her jowls? If it was an attempt at humor then the joke didn’t land. By all means ask for surgery recommendations but the extra “color” was shocking and upsetting.
Anon
I once again feel the need to defend my adorable bulldog!
Anonymous
Agreed. Would you all talk to your real life friends the way you talked to OP? I hope not.
Anon
Yikes, I hope you wouldn’t tell a women with anorexia that her views about herself are very valid.
No one was shaming her for not liking something about her appearance, but let’s not pretend that someone’s expressed views about themselves don’t have any effect on others.
Trish
Misogyny is you policing how she expresses herself.
BeenThatGuy
This
Anon
That’s….not what misogyny means.
Monday
Correct. Nor is “feminism” the unquestioning support of any woman doing or saying anything she wants.
Anon
+1
Anon
I agree with you OP. I read that post, read the replies, and considered that any substantive reply I made would probably just be jumped on as well and I’m not up for that today. I’ve been thinking of a social media pause, and this is the motivation I needed to take a pause from this community. So uh, thanks, I guess, to the word and thought police?
Anonymous
Great! I’d be happy not to hear from people springing to the defense of someone who made a really toxic post.
Anon
Please – it was not toxic and you need thicker skin.
Books
Seriously….
Somehow I sense that the folks jumping and screaming “Misogyny!!” are young and ignorant. They need to stop acting like fragile children, get a grip, and learn what misogyny really means and looks like.
Some of you need read The Boy who Cried Wolf…..
Anonymous
This right here is the problem. You can disagree without piling on. Hi. You’re the problem, it’s you.
Anonymous
I did disagree without piling on. And then someone decided we needed another thread about this just to cause drama.
Anon
The number of people here who are all of a sudden claiming things are “toxic” is ridiculous. What rocks have y’all been living under?
PolyD
Also “gross.” State something that someone disagrees with and suddenly you’re “gross.”
So childish.
Anon
Some people here seem to have difficulty separating the concepts of opinion and fact. Enjoy your life in the echo chamber you have so carefully constructed for yourself.
Anon
I thought it was an honest view of her inside voice, and that inside voice did not develop in a vacuum. If she has been taught to hate her own healthy body, the correct response is to tell her that she will be a lot happier when she stops playing those words on a loop in her head.
A lot of women hate their bodies and many of them think it’s normal. (I have been outright mocked for not hating mine, and have women try to bully me into hating my body. They think I’m the freak for not hating my healthy, athletic body.) Best thing to do, for those who are not cruel, is to tell them over and over that no, hating your body isn’t normal or healthy.
Anon
I’ve taken a break from this community multiple times after being attacked. Words can hurt! I’ve been reading here for around 8 years and I was quite young when I started (like right out of college) so definitely was more sensitive then. But it’s definitely worth taking a break sometimes.
Anon
Yeah this community is honestly really toxic in a lot of ways. I’m trying to cut back but it’s hard.
Anonymous
Honestly, I think the people struggling with self esteem are the people who are triggered and upset by a women making jokes about her own aging face. If you feel that bad about yourself you might also consider seeing a plastic surgeon, this level of insecurity must be all consuming.
Anonymous
The problem is tone doesn’t come across in text, and there are many women who are not joking when they say things like that OP did.
As an aside, people who are all consumed by insecurity should be seeing a therapist, not a plastic surgeon. The last thing someone with that level of insecurity needs is someone feeding the insecurity.
Anon
I found her post upsetting. I’m still young enough to get breakouts instead of wrinkles. Just because I don’t personally am dealing with an insecurity doesn’t mean I don’t find gross commentary gross. I am also thin but take issue with fat shaming. Shockingly people can take offense to things that don’t impact them personally. It’s a good thing!
PolyD
Just because someone complains about something about their appearance doesn’t mean they’re insecure. As I age, there are things about my appearance that make me think, Hoo boy, that looked a lot better 10 years ago. And maybe I think about if I should do something about it. But then I forget about it.
Maybe the bulk of people upset by the original comment are quite young, and the problem is severalfold: they don’t yet understand that changes in your body as you age are inevitable, and even the most well-adjusted person might not like those changes; that joking about the changes is something people do because what should they do, weep and wail; and they really fear these changes, because for those who have had social media for so much of their lives, maybe it’s hard for them to face that some day they, too, will age, and not look so perfect on Instagram. It’s real easy to say you’ll never get Botox or plastic surgery when you’re in your 20s!
Wanting to improve how you look isn’t “gross,” to use that other word the kids seem to be obsessed with, it’s normal! Otherwise why would we care about wearing flattering clothing? It’s only a problem when it becomes the driving factor in your life, and I don’t think we can judge that from a person’s comment here.
Anon
I don’t disagree with any of this.
However, I’m so confused why so many posters here seem to think that something someone says about themselves automatically absolves them of any responsibility of those words. When women say things like this “about themselves” out load or on a comment section, it normalizes that language for other people to use when speaking about women. Just because you are saying something about yourself doesn’t mean it doesn’t affect other people.
anon
It’s wild to me that this is being chalked up as oh, young people being naive and upset.
Anon
And to add to that I don’t care if she wants to get plastic surgery or take any other action. I’m not sure why the commentary about comparing a feature that many women have as they age to that of a dog was necessary to the question. A simple, I don’t like the way this looks, any recommendations would have sufficed.
Monday
I have no idea how old anyone is who comments, especially if everyone is Anon. But even if theoretically it was a bunch of younger women saying they were put off by the post, why would that necessarily mean they should be ignored? I care about how my discussion of beauty culture comes across to women and girls younger than me (I’m 41 and I look it). So many of us learned to hate our bodies and faces as little girls, because that’s what we saw from our mothers. I know a lot of women who only got motivated to start speaking respectfully about themselves when they realized their younger sisters/daughters/nieces were watching every move.
I don’t believe in personally attacking anyone, and I did not do that. But there needs to be room for criticism of terms like “aging intentionally” and the expectation–not the freedom or the choice, but the expectation–that we spend time and money to resist the natural signs of aging.
Anonymous
You’re right, wanting to improve your look isn’t gross. What *is* gross is comparing how you look -or how you think you will look- to an animal in such a negative and insulting way. The possibly intended humor just didn’t translate well and completely fell flat.
This isn’t a case of young people on social media not understanding, and therefore fearing, the aging process, it’s people calling out gross misogynistic language that had no bearing on the actual question.
Anonymous
I think it’s problematic that you have such a giant problem with “aging intentionally” that you repeatedly bring it up in order to criticize plastic surgery generally when one person asks for help with one specific part of her face. my plastic surgery and Botox and hair dye have nothing do with you. Enjoy aging without them. But stop pretending it’s my fault you feel bad about yourself. I’m not obligated to look worse so that you feel better. This mean spirited jealousy is uglier than any aging I can imagine.
Monday
Every comment, including all of mine, has explicitly said that anyone is welcome to do whatever they want in terms of surgery or other interventions. Nobody is arguing with that.
“Jealousy” makes no sense when we’re talking about freely available products and services. If I wanted any of this stuff, I’d get it.
If I really wanted to troll, I’d say that “anti-aging” beauty culture absolutely is about natural aging faces, just like diet culture is about fat people!
Monday
Every comment, including all of mine, has explicitly said that anyone is welcome to do whatever they want in terms of surgery or other interventions. Nobody is arguing with that.
“Jealousy” makes no sense when we’re talking about freely available products and services. If I wanted any of this stuff, I’d get it.
If I really wanted to tr0ll, I’d say that “anti-aging” beauty culture absolutely is about natural aging faces, just like diet culture is totally about fat people!
Anon
Fun fact: you can have breakouts and wrinkles at the same time. Hi from late 30s ;)
But I agree with your point.
Anon
I agree with this. Some of the commenters on this blog are horrible!
Anon
Eyeroll. The “if you disagree with me you must be jealous” argument is so tired. Fwiw, I didn’t comment on the thread yesterday but I agree with a lot of the pushback it got. I’m in my 30s, happy with my face and body currently with nothing exception moisturizer and SPF, but also not ruling out doing more interventions down the road. You don’t need to be insecure about your own appearance to find it offensive to hear a woman’s body described like that. Just like you don’t have to be fat to find fat-shaming offensive.
Anon
I can’t believe we’re policing a woman talking about how her body makes her feel…
Anonymous
Right? Like she can’t express how she feels about herself because…it might bring up unpleasant childhood memories in someone else? That’s a whole other level of blaming someone else for your own issues.
And those wringing their hands about language like that being normalized and being used by others–guess what–those jerks already are using it. But I’d rather see that than a world where women can not be honest about how they are feeling. There are already enough societal pressures to be pleasant all the time. Let’s not normalize having our own thoughts policed by each other.
Anon
Who said she can’t express her feelings? I didn’t see a single poster suggest that. Just an ask that she be more mindful of the words she chooses. Pretty much everyone expressly stated there was nothing wrong with not loving your body, wanting to change your body or asking for advice on either.
Anonymous
Having her express how she is feeling about herself using only words others deem acceptable is controlling how she expresses herself. Literally that’s is what that is. She shouldn’t have to “be mindful” describing how she feels about her own body.
Anonymous
She doesn’t have to “be mindful.”That’s literally not letting her express herself how she wants to about her own darn body to appease the comfort of someone else. She shouldn’t have to do that for anyone.
Anon
So by your logic it’d be totally ok for me to refer to myself by using a derogatory term for women or a racial slur because I’m expressing myself? Just trying to understand what the limit to your theory that as long as someone is talking about themselves they can say anything without criticism. Did Fox News pay you big bucks for sharing this strategy of having women say misogynistic things or people of color say racist things?
Anonymous
Other people don’t get to dictate how you get to refer to your body or think about your body and if it were up to me, what to do with your body. That’s more dangerous than any word out there.
Her body, her voice. She doesn’t have to limit how she thinks about herself or describes herself to make anyone else happy. Are they words i would use? No. But it’s her right.
I actually think the people on here trying to defend silencing a woman because her views are too triggering for them are far more Fox Newsy than liberal old me.
Anon
Personally the whole thread made me feel a little better about having plenty of buccal fat and invisible cheekbones.
Anon
They were appreciating your tone.
anon
Does anyone have experience with recruiting new board members for non-profits? I joined the board of a non-profit I’d previously volunteered with for 5+ years around this time last year. Since then, we’ve had some departures from the board, so we now need to actively recruit new board members. FWIW, this is an established organization with decades of history, sizeable staff, doing important work in combating intimate partner violence.
Anyone have advice for how to identify people who may be interested (beyond my personal network)? Any suggestions welcome!
anon
Do you need board members with dollars, skills (lawyers, accountants, etc.) or both? In my city, the United Way runs a non-profit board fair that is open to their young professionals donors. I’d check if there is something similar in your area, if you are looking for younger people that might have more skills/time to donate rather than big donors.
Carrots
Are you a fundraising board or a working board? If you’re a working board, you can post roles like that Idealist or VolunteerMatch.
Anon
Just be upfront if all you want is fundraising or hitting up of friends. No thanks. I’m happy to write my own check, but without committee meetings and pimping my friends. They hate that. I hate that.
Anon
Many non-profit board have an expectation that all board members “give, get [$$$] or get off” in addition to corporate governance work. Your organization needs to think hard and select board members who meet the specific needs of the organization in terms of both corporate governance and fundraising, and communicate clearly with potential new board members.
Anonymous
We make a chart of skills we need (or that our existing board members have) and list the board members in those spots along with the year their position ends. That way we can easily track who we need to target when. It’s important to look at this stuff years in advance so you preserve institutional knowledge. You don’t want, say, all but one of your finance committee members leaving at the same time and the person left has only been there a year.
Anonymous
Posting very late here but from a non-profit fundraising staff perspective – this is always hard to do, but a couple of things that help are first inviting people you know to attend an event to see if they are interested and like the community of people involved; it needs to be a good fit socially as well as in terms of commitment to the mission. So if there is a gala and you buy a table, fill your table with people you think might be interested in joining or at least donating. Generally you wouldn’t want to ask someone to join a board if they haven’t already contributed to the organization (if you want them to be a donor; if you need their expertise for another reason that’s different).
We also asked a recruiter to join our board, and he has been a big help in finding other new Board members since that kind of matchmaking is what he does all day.
Anon
Oooooh, I just need to rant into the void so I don’t anger respond to an email.
Earlier this week, another team made a (big) mistake. When a member on my team caught it and pointed it out to them, they didn’t move to rectify it. So I stepped in and let them know that this wasn’t acceptable and to please fix it. It was a perfectly polite email, I said please and thank you, but it was direct in stating they needed to correct this issue.
I just got the email back where they agreed to fix the mistake but the last line was “I hope we can all continue to treat each other with kindness and respect.”
I’m just going to fume here for a little bit.
Anon
Is it possible they weren’t directing that at you, but at the first person who pointed it out?
anonshmanon
They said “continue to”, so you can choose to interpret it as your email came across as kind and respectful, and they are +1ing your vibe. But then again, I am petty.
Senior Attorney
Yes, this said what I meant to say, only better.
No Face
I am the same.
OP
Hahaha, I love this. Thank you.
Senior Attorney
I totally get why you’re fuming, but let it go. I’m sure they are feeling horribly defensive and if it were me, I would choose to read it absolutely at face value: “I hope you, OP can find it in your heart to continue to treat us with kindness and respect despite the fact we have royally effed up.”
Anon
You didn’t do anything wrong. They did, and now they’re defensive. I’d ignore it.
Anonymous
A good friend’s birthday is coming up soon – any amazing treats from Goldbelly to recommend?
Senior Attorney
We really enjoyed the Nancy Silverton ice cream assortment.
New Here
I love Sugaree’s Cakes from Albany, MS. I believe they are on Goldbelly. Strawberry is my fave!
Anon
Well, for a very good friend I ordered a Sacher Torte cake from the hotel/restaurant in Vienna. They sell/ship internationally.
It was a hit.
Depends on your friend tho.
Anonny
So, I have worked my entire career at non-profits, NGOs, and in local government but 18 months ago took a job in the private sector. I was recently involved in planning an off-site for another group within my company and I am honestly appalled by the excess that occurs at these events (and other internal events my company hosts). My company provides a common product and honestly charges our customers a pretty penny. Additionally, the company is letting people go and cutting back on perks for employees. All while spending honestly lord knows how much on these parties, conferences, and other events.
I know that this is common among large companies and I knew coming into the private sector that it would be very different than any other place I worked, but the excess is grotesque. We could function like many other companies and pass savings along to our consumers or we could restore the perks and raises that we previously gave to employees or we could not lay off hundreds of employees. Or all 3.
I had thought for a while that the private sector was not for me, but what I learned about this trip totally confirmed it. I know complaining about this to a board full of big law lawyers and other high earners is absurd but I’m honestly so shocked, I had to share it somewhere.
Anon
Ha. I just started a private sector job two weeks ago after years in tiny non-profits with no money. It’s a trip.
Anonny
When I started this job, I was looking forward to free office coffee (because, obviously I always had to bring my own coffee maker and supplies to the office in government/non profits), and yet we don’t even have that somehow!
The salary is fine (12k raise, but also a friend of mine at my last non-profit job just got promoted and makes more than I do now), but the benefits are worse. I don’t love my team (whereas I met some of my closest friends at previous jobs) and there’s no mission (which I really, really miss).
Anonymous
I agree that it is frustrating to see this kind of waste. I feel it in this context and honestly in other contexts, as well.
Anon
I’m honestly not surprised. As a nonprofit exec, I’ve had meals with our account execs for different tools and attended some conferences on the tools. The excess, as you put it, is surprising to me.
On another note, I’m curious how you made the transition to a private sector job? I’ve had a couple interviews with Big Tech corps for nonprofit account managers, no offers, but I’m coming up on nearly 20 years in the sector and my tiny savings account shows it.
Anonny
I was doing similar work in a non profit! For example, I worked at a nonprofit that worked to improve literacy among underprivileged populations then I worked at an NGO in a comms role, then in government in a comms role and now I do comms at a big, soul sucking corporation on the team that does comms related to our very limited community service program that happens to work on improving literacy rates as a project.
This is all a made up example for the sake of anonymity, but it’s pretty close to my path.
Anon
Although nonprofits often get their work done on guilting employees to live the mission while overworked and underpaid (meanwhile, I have worked for a lot of nonprofits where the leaders were paid as if they were in the private sector). Nonprofit is a tax status — not a business model! I mean, look at how colleges spend $ on recruiting vs how much they pay housekeepers. The private sector is just like that, only more so. The problem is the problem regardless of scale.
Anonny
I worked in a non-profit that paid roughly market rate (so paid really, really well for a non profit and slightly worse than private sector), at an NGO that paid poorly but market rate for non-profit/NGOs but I lived in DC at the time so a lot of people I knew were paid similarly, and in local government where I was paid poorly but also the county had literally no money. 1 job had great work life balance, 1 had terrible work life balance, and in government most weeks were 40 hours nothing more but plenty of weeks were 80 hours hair on fire but we got OT.
I guess it never bothered me before because a) it was mission based work and b) I knew the budgets pretty well and thus I understood why there wasn’t money for XYZ. But, at my current job the mission is just to make the rich richer and there is apparently TONS of money in the budget for B.S. and not enough for adequate raises, free coffee, or staff retention.
Monday
Totally true in non-profit health care as well. The Daily did a show this week on non-profit hospitals that absolutely behave like regular for-profit businesses, and this is my experience as their (former) shortchanged employee.
Anonamoma
This is true to an extent. In order to get donations and private/public grants, non-profits typically have to disclose a lot about how they use their money. The less that is spent on “frivolous” things/ “overhead” and the more that is spent on the mission, the better the organization looks. Often they also have boards to whom they have to justify expenses. This still leaves a lot of room for variation, though.
I’ve also worked for small and mid-sized companies that were actually more stingy than most non-profits. That is the most rage-inducing, because you know that you’re being squeezed just so that the owners can get a little bit richer at the expense of your comfort and morale.
No Face
Would it help if you considered the business reasons for the excess?
My firm has started in person happy hours, dinners, etc. I know my coworkers as people now and I’m becoming actual friends with them. The relationships are such a balm after the pandemic that I deleted the Indeed app off my phone. The cost of the party is less than the cost of losing employees.
I attended a Very Expensive Event last night for clients. Seeing them in another context allowed me to get to know them as individuals and real people, instead of an email address. I’m actively looking forward to working with one person in particular, and she will probably direct more business to me because we have a real connection now.
Anonny
I guess one of my gripes is that these events only happen for certain teams. My job is very much back-office work and so our division never gets these things but those in sales, business development, and other related positions get them somewhat frequently. I get that my division doesn’t need to network and schmooze with clients so we don’t need all of the travel (an offsite in a different country at a resort location!), fancy parties, “rent out XYZ place for a dinner and hire a famous person to be a guest speaker” events, but we didn’t even get a holiday happy hour? In fact, in my 18 months at the company (all of which have been hybrid with 2-3 in office days a week), there has never once been a meal, happy hour, or social activity paid for by the company or our leadership. I was recently on a business trip and was chastised for Ubering and not taking the subway when the subway would have taken 3x as long for my trip. I realize that my team doesn’t drum up business, but the disparity is wild.
But even if I were the one attending these events, I’d still think they’re a waste of money. I think having dinners or happy hours with coworkers and clients is very beneficial, but it can be done on a more “normal” scale. Like do the team retreat in the office and pay for the meals for that, no need to fly everyone to a different location. Cover $50/head (so very generous but not excessive) for a once a year team dinner for each team.
I’m actually very pro-coworker bonding, I’ve just always had to pay for it myself!
Anon
It honestly sounds like part of the problem is that you work at a bad company. I’ve worked for 3 different companies, and none treated employees like that
Anonny
I mean it is a very large company and so there isn’t a budget to do this for everyone. I just don’t get why we do it for anyone!
Anon
That’s not what I meant. We didn’t have lavish parties. And although we did have retreats, they were all domestic and pretty basic. But we had coffee and snacks in the break rooms, multiple company paid happy hours during the year (at least when not in Covid times), and other basic benefits.
Anon
I worked at a company like that. The events were for clients and if you were back office you didn’t get invited. The stuff for rank and file employees was in-office, like a buffet lunch at Christmas, and didn’t include anyone traveling.
Anne-on
Oh man, the stories I could tell from my 2 years in high net worth wealth management as a sales associate pre-crash would turn your hair grey then. It was (and is) shocking but standard and expected in certain roles/industries.
But it’s ok to say the private sector isn’t for you!
Anon
OTOH, this is why I refuse to use a money manager. I get what they cost. I do not get what I get for that cost (Boglehead since my teen years, so not someone with no clue). So this sort of confirms what I suspected (and I’m not HNW, merely currently high-ish income and finally paid off my student loans, so just saving more in various pockets including an emergency fund and laddered CDs now that rates are not zero).
Anonny
I do get that there are industries where this behavior is expected (as gross as it is), but I guess I didn’t realize my industry was one of them! Nor, did I expect the company to go so all-out on internal meetings and retreats.
Anonymous
I’m glad you shared: I felt like this at 23. My industry is very feast or famine. The feasting is truly grotesque. Of course you should do what helps you sleep at night, but after a decade and a half of both feasting and famine, I basically shrug my shoulders and cash my paycheck. I’m not going to change the culture. My customers are well aware they’re being gouged. They seem to have the attitude of what are you gonna do vote for a third party? I’ve also never seen anyone get fired who didn’t both roundly deserve it and also get multiple warnings and second chances. I’m probably jaded.
Anon
Companies do not pass the savings on to customers, unless that will result in more profits.
Anon
True — you have to offer value for the $, but you can’t ethically throw away the shareholders’ money just to be nice. It’s a business, not a charity.
Anon
Nothing ethical about any of this.
Anonny
I will fully admit that this is something I don’t understand about the private sector. But, if our teapot subscription costs $20/mo and we have so much excess money as a company (enough that we now make coffee makers and hot chocolate makers too, and our leadership and stakeholders make $$$$$) why are we raising our prices to $40/mo? Especially given the economy!
Anon
Remember at the beginning of the pandemic and huge corporations got all of the stimulus money and instead of lowering prices or paying their workers more, they just bought back their own stock to raise their share price? Remember how they laid people off anyway?
Remember when inflation was record high over the past year due to “supply chain issues” so companies had no choice but to raise their prices to cover their increased costs, but then reported record profits?
Anonny
Lol, yes I think about this frequently and then have a new-found ire for the private sector. Everything just feels so motivated by greed.
Anon
Because the goal of the company is to make the most money possible for the shareholders/owners. Not to sell for a lower price and make less profit.
Anon
Ugh, there’s profitable and then there’s greedy
Anon
What is greedy? How much money do you make? Enough to spend on things that are not pure necessities? If so why are you being so greedy? Why aren’t you giving it away?
Anon
Passing costs along to customers and/or cutting back on staff raises, letting staff go, etc. when a company is posting record profits is greedy.
pugsnbourbon
Yeah this is just late-stage capitalism.
Anon
I think this is highly dependent on the company. I work for a large privately-owned company in the Midwest (would be Fortune50 if we were public) and our culture is very penny-pinching. Travel and entertainment expenses are highly scrutinized, and we very rarely have parties (if we do they’re nothing to write home about – hosted happy hours at the local bar for a department, etc). I’m guessing it’s very different on the coasts, but we are very thoughtful about cutting unnecessary expenses, to the point that it’s almost disengaging! I wouldn’t mind a fun office party every now and then, or getting to travel to visit colleagues in Europe or LATAM.
Anon
As a public servant who is the child of two public servants, this is all wild to me!
anon a mouse
I left a public sector job for three short years in consulting at a small firm, and the excesses and cavalier attitude about client money disgusted me. It was also clear at year-end that our entire purpose was to make the CEO richer, in his eyes. I stuck it out for the financial benefits but went back to federal government as fast as I could.
Anon
I don’t disagree but this isn’t just the private sector. Some of the most lavish events I’ve attended are non-profit fundraisers. I understand on some level that lavish-ness may be helpful in raising additional money but it does sort of make me sick to attend a black tie event with a three course menu at some fancy venue. I’d much rather my money go to the cause than the event!
Anon
I once worked for a major company that made it through a period of financial difficulties. During the difficulties there were both layoffs and massive voluntary resignations. The company got to the point where the new CEO was going around from office to office saying the company’s most important asset was its employees.
Then we got a new CEO and he came around to the offices to do an intro tour. He asked “what is the company’s most important asset?” Someone answered, “the employees,” and CEO2 said “no, it’s the customers.”
Then CEO3 came along and did the tour and I swear to god, the same thing happened, except this time it was, “what is the company’s most important asset?” An employee answered, “the customers,”and CEO3 said “no, it’s the shareholders.”
They’re on CEO4 now, I have no idea what he said because I got fed up and left. Actually a bunch of us left at the same time so maybe they’re back to employees are #1 to keep the rest from leaving. But what CEO3 said is always the bottom line.
Anon
For those of you who have lost the love of your life…how much time passed before you stopped thinking of them? I’m at 3 years and I still think of him almost every day. Yes, I’ve been to therapy. I really thought it would have gotten better by now, but it hasn’t.
Anonymous
Oh I’m so sorry but never. Ask anyone who has suffered a major loss. You never stop thinking of the person. The amount of room those thoughts take up lessens with time but our lost loved ones are always with us.
Moose
I don’t think you ever stop thinking about ones you’ve lost, you just, over time, manage the feelings better.
Anon
I’m not sure what you mean by lost, but I lost a child and I think of her every day. I have moved forward in my life, I have two additional children and a husband I love, but I still think of her every day. It doesn’t mean I don’t love my surviving children and husband just as much. I would say over the years it has become easier and less painful to think of her.
Hugs to you, and there’s no harm in going back to therapy to revisit this.
Anon
I’m sorry for your loss, and for the confusion. I was referring to a break up.
Anonymous
Ohhhhhhh. I think you need to sit with this a bit longer then because you portrayed it as a death. This wasn’t the love of your life and you can actively work not to think of them.
Anon
How do you know this wasn’t the love of their life? Sometimes we lose relationships.
Anon
I suspected it was a breakup when I read the post, but I agree it was a little misleading and a breakup is not a death.
Anon
How do you actively work to not think of someone? You can’t control your thoughts.
Anon
Who are you to say it wasn’t the love of her life?
Explorette
You control your thoughts as follows: (a) catch yourself thinking about something you don’t want to, (b) tell yourself “I’m not going to let this take up space in my mind” and (c) turn your thoughts to something you do want to think about.
Rinse and repeat, and eventually you will break the connection in your brain and think of it less/never.
Anonymous
You can absolutely try to
Change your thoughts! When I’ve wanted to think of someone less I literally tell myself “no we are not wasting time thinking about him now we can do that later” over and over until later didn’t come. You can tell yourself “the love of my life is not a man who dumped me and I choose not to assign him that role.” You try.
Peloton
If the person doesn’t love you back and breaks up with you, they’re not the love of your life.
Another Anon
I suggest a meditative statement for this. I’m turning 40 this year and had a hard breakup last year. I say out loud “you have not met everyone who is going to love you”. Repeat it until your brain is tired of saying the statement. Then intentionally think about something else – your next meal, a news item etc. It works. I have enough breakup experience to prove it :-/
Peloton
I’m very, very sorry for your loss.
Chi Anon
Honestly, there is no one timeline for everyone. It will differ so much from person to person. If you’ve done therapy, maybe start it up again with a different therapist for a fresh perspective?
Anon
I’m going to copy paste an incredibly eloquent comment that I read on rddit years ago, and I hope it’s helpful for you, because it has been for me.
“Alright, here goes. I’m old. What that means is that I’ve survived (so far) and a lot of people I’ve known and loved did not. I’ve lost friends, best friends, acquaintances, co-workers, grandparents, mom, relatives, teachers, mentors, students, neighbors, and a host of other folks. I have no children, and I can’t imagine the pain it must be to lose a child. But here’s my two cents.
I wish I could say you get used to people dying. I never did. I don’t want to. It tears a hole through me whenever somebody I love dies, no matter the circumstances. But I don’t want it to “not matter”. I don’t want it to be something that just passes. My scars are a testament to the love and the relationship that I had for and with that person. And if the scar is deep, so was the love. So be it. Scars are a testament to life. Scars are a testament that I can love deeply and live deeply and be cut, or even gouged, and that I can heal and continue to live and continue to love. And the scar tissue is stronger than the original flesh ever was. Scars are a testament to life. Scars are only ugly to people who can’t see.
As for grief, you’ll find it comes in waves. When the ship is first wrecked, you’re drowning, with wreckage all around you. Everything floating around you reminds you of the beauty and the magnificence of the ship that was, and is no more. And all you can do is float. You find some piece of the wreckage and you hang on for a while. Maybe it’s some physical thing. Maybe it’s a happy memory or a photograph. Maybe it’s a person who is also floating. For a while, all you can do is float. Stay alive.
In the beginning, the waves are 100 feet tall and crash over you without mercy. They come 10 seconds apart and don’t even give you time to catch your breath. All you can do is hang on and float. After a while, maybe weeks, maybe months, you’ll find the waves are still 100 feet tall, but they come further apart. When they come, they still crash all over you and wipe you out. But in between, you can breathe, you can function. You never know what’s going to trigger the grief. It might be a song, a picture, a street intersection, the smell of a cup of coffee. It can be just about anything…and the wave comes crashing. But in between waves, there is life.
Somewhere down the line, and it’s different for everybody, you find that the waves are only 80 feet tall. Or 50 feet tall. And while they still come, they come further apart. You can see them coming. An anniversary, a birthday, or Christmas, or landing at O’Hare. You can see it coming, for the most part, and prepare yourself. And when it washes over you, you know that somehow you will, again, come out the other side. Soaking wet, sputtering, still hanging on to some tiny piece of the wreckage, but you’ll come out.
Take it from an old guy. The waves never stop coming, and somehow you don’t really want them to. But you learn that you’ll survive them. And other waves will come. And you’ll survive them too. If you’re lucky, you’ll have lots of scars from lots of loves. And lots of shipwrecks.”
Anon
I love that wave analogy, spot on. Thank you for posting this.
Anonymous
I’m sorry for your loss.
There is no timeline for this. My grandfather lived 17 years longer than my grandmother and still thought about her her and talked about her. He actually teared up when the first great-grandchild was born because ‘she would have loved this’.
I expect we always grieve in a way for the people we love and then lose, no matter how long it’s been.
Explorette
I also thought your were referring to a death. In that case, you never stop. For a break up, I’d say it is unusual to still be thinking of him every day. Good relationships don’t end in divorce/break up. I think you need to reframe your relationship with this person. He was not the love of your life. You haven’t met that person yet.
Anon
OP here – I’m sorry…I should have specified that I meant we broke up 3 years ago. I wasn’t referring to death.
Anon
Gently, they weren’t the love of your life. A friend of mine similarly misses a man she dated 15 years ago, calling him the one who got away or the love of her life. If that were true…you’d still be together. The love of your life should be reciprocal. Therapy may be helpful to unpack why you feel so stuck wanting someone that didn’t reciprocate that feeling. You deserve mutual love, admiration, and support, not to be chasing someone or wondering “what if?”
Anon
Thanks. He did reciprocate that feeling and I was the one who messed it up.
anon
OK. In light of this new information, I would suggest digging deep into learning to forgive yourself. I don’t know what happened or how you feel you messed things up, but it sounds like you are still seeking peace about … whatever happened. You are still a good and lovable person; this guy was not the only person who could possibly fall in love with you.
Anon
No relationship is perfect. Couples fight, disagree, life is messy. Please don’t be hard on yourself that you “messed it up”. Again, the right person will fight with you to get through whatever happens.
Anonymous
Ah, then what you are describing is not grief, it is regret.
Anonymous
Gently, it sounds like this is more about some serious regrets you have for how you messed things up. Generally, unless what you did was something catastrophically bad, a love of your life will want to work through it and make things work out.
Anon
They never said it was grief
Anonymous
If you broke up you didn’t lose the love of your life. The love of your life will feel the same way about you that you do about him. I agree that you need to reframe the relationship in your mind.
Anon
I know for a fact that we idealize past relationships if we don’t have a current relationship that is better. I think what you could really use help with is remembering the entire relationship, and why you broke up, or why you did what you did to cause the breakup.
Maybe you are more attached to who you were when you were with that person rather than the person him/her self. Lots to think about here. I don’t think you’re done with therapy, my friend.
And for all of us living on an Earth with 8 billion people, do not believe for a second there is one and only one person who is right for you, and only one position for the “love of your life,”
Anon
Date someone new. They weren’t the love of your life because you aren’t with them.
Anonymous
I had what I believed to be the love of my life break up with me 25+ years ago now. We made the mistake of keeping in touch long distance, even visiting each other twice, over the following 2.5 years. I could not move on. Then he did something that made me stop contacting him, and even then it took a lot of time to stop thinking about him all the time. I started to make progress and move on to pursue others over about 4 years when, out of the blue, I got a call from a friend of his telling me he knew he had made a mistake and suggesting that we should reopen communications because our breakup seemed to be a mistake for both of us. We did get back in touch, but he wasn’t ever able to cross the hurdle of asking to mend the breakup and we eventually stopped communicating. I will probably never know if it was his desire or intention to fix things, or just his friend’s idea. I only know that he didn’t or couldn’t. I still think of him often–though not every day, certainly every week. Neither of us has married in that time. I have not had any relationship approaching marriage; I don’t know if he has but I somehow doubt it. And I honestly wish, despite how wonderful I felt when we were together, that we had never had that relationship at all, because it feels like it broke something in both of us. That probably was the love of my life, but it wasn’t my last love.
Do you want to reconnect? Do you know if they are open to it? If so, you have to make the effort. Remember that you are the one who broke it. The other person can’t be the one to mend it. They can’t make the first move. Only you can. They are powerless. You made them powerless. But there may be a welcome response to reconnecting, and if that is what you want, and you don’t know that they aren’t open to it, you should try.
If you want to move on, I will just say that I think of him less when I am fully engaging in my current life, especially when I am in a relationship with someone else, as I very happily am now. So I would encourage you to pursue your future with verve and vigor, as the past memories do eventually dissipate and carry less emotion the more you build a new life.
Anon
Have you considered another therapist? Your pain is tied up in regret (not sure what happened – did you cheat on him? dump him because it seemed right at the time?), and it could be that you are getting regret tangled up with him as a person. A good therapist should have helped you work through this by now… maybe someone else would be a better fit.
Anon
There is no singular truth in life. The story you’re telling yourself is that they were the love of your life. Equally true is the story that life is long, we have an infinite capacity to love, and they were a love in your life, but not your only one. It gets better when you keep repeating that to yourself over and over again until you believe it. It will never get better if you keep telling yourself the first story.
Jo March
I just finished reading the Vox article from the news round up on how companies are making it harder to reach customer service via phone and boy did it bring up some feelings. This is a major source of frustration for me because I manage so many things for my older parents, who (despite their sincerely best efforts) just cannot keep up with chatting with a CSR via an app or even email (Like, I have their household email address on my phone). With how things are going, I wouldn’t be surprised to call a customer service line soon and get an automated message of “If you proceed on the phone instead of contacting us online, you agree to be charged $X to cover a phone service fee.”
I’m mostly venting, but I wish we could regulate that companies had to offer a phone line to talk to a human when things go wrong with their service/product at no additional cost to the consumer. I’m an honest consumer, I don’t try to scam the products and good I consume, and I don’t call unless it’s something I’ve tried to address via their app or online, it shouldn’t be this hard!! It’s like they want to be unreachable on purpose so they don’t have to refund fees they charge incorrectly or replace defective products.
Panda Bear
+1000 and amen!
Curious
And another AMEN!
Anon
“We are experiencing higher than usual call volume”
So what’s usual at this point if your message has been saying that for 5 years?
Jo March
OMG! Yes, the last time I called Delta to deal with a travel issue, it was a 4.5 hour wait and the in-app chat person wasn’t able to help.
Also, “if you’re not travelling in the next 72 hours, please consider waiting and calling another time” or something along those lines. That request made sense to me given the recent holiday travel melt down and I agreed with being considerate to passengers dealing with immediate issues, but when I finally was able to get a hold of a real human, she berated me for waiting so long to call. You can’t win. Thanks for letting me rant.
Curious
Agreeeeee.
Anon
Honestly I’d happily pay to speak to a human
anon
I completely agree with you. I honestly feel bad for my parents. They are struggling in such a tech-heavy world.
Jo March
I focused on my parents in my original post, but honestly, I’m struggling with it too.
And it just makes me even more frustrated, so I have to remind myself to be kind to the CSR I can eventually connect with because I used to work in customer facing roles and I remember just how much an understanding/kind customer could mean in a sea of getting yelled at for things that weren’t my fault.
Anonny
Agreed! I lost my last 2 grandparents, both of whom were in their mid-90s when they passed, in the mid to late 2010s. Neither had ever gotten a computer or any other device to connect to the internet. They both had cell phones, which were flip phones that lived in the glove box and were strictly for driving emergencies. I know there are plenty of others like them who are still alive and need the ability to call customer service.
There are likewise plenty of other older adults who have internet access but who are not at all internet savvy and can’t handle something like this. Plus, plenty of people who can’t afford internet and/or can’t afford a device that connects to the internet.
Companies that just turn a blind eye to the most vulnerable members of society infuriate me!!!
+1 that there needs to be regulation in order to ensure those without internet access are able to connect to a human via phone to receive assistance.
Anon
Obviously this won’t be an option for everything, but sometimes if you physically show up at an office of that company, you can get a human response. I had been locked out of my health insurance online member portal thingy, so yesterday I physically went to one of the insurer’s offices in my town…and talked to a human and got it fixed. I’ve also heard of people physically going to the airport to talk to airline representatives there. Obviously this solution only works if there is a physical office somewhere near you and if you can go to it…but it is sometimes very worth it.
anonshmanon
alas, the last time I walked into a branch of my bank, they told me to call the number on the card instead, after failing to fix it a number of times!
Anonymous
While you are at it, we should regulate a better level of staffing for Social Security, Medicare and the IRS. I was on hold with Social Security for hours last year and then the calls just dropped. Thanks
Time Comes For Us All
This will be a problem for each of us as we age. In my late 50s, I am acutely aware that in 10-ish or 20-ish years, I will not be able to do my banking or schedule my doctors’ appointments online. And then what will we do?
Also, great, so the corporation has figured out how not to employ people because they can use bots instead. If all corporations do that, how are people supposed to find jobs and make a living?
Anonymous
I constantly see boll and branch sheets advertised on instagram. Are they just all marketing or are they any good if you like soft cotton sheets? Thank you!
Anon
I’ve never tried but they are constantly advertised by Dave Ramsey and other conservative groups, so I won’t buy them for that reason.
Anon
Ok so I’m a bit of a sheet nerd. What do you mean by soft? Like the original Charisma sheets?
Sallyanne
I really like our sets. We have a split king so finding good sheets and not crazy expensive is nice. We’ve had two sets we rotate for about 3 years and they’ve held up well. I would describe them more as crisp and smooth rather soft (like a jersey or flannel).
Anon
My kids (12, 14) haven’t seen their cousins (11, 13, 17) since the pandemic. They live far away, but we used to visit in the summer. Why is it that when kids are up to age 10, you can bring them around other kids and they all play together fine. Then they become teens and tweens and it’s all like “I don’t even know them we have nothing in common I don’t want to bother when I’ll probably never see them again.” Then you get to say, your mid 30s, if not before, and because you are adulting with a job and maybe kids and maybe a spouse / SO and maybe an ex somewhere, you have everything in common and can actually relate? [And, yes, I’m likely doing this even with a whine fest, and probably meeting up at a lake house or other fun destination in case they just wind up sullen and with 5 kids looking at 5 phone screens. Has been too long.]
Any tips on reconnecting teens? I miss my sister and maybe they can see how two wildly different adults are still family and still love each other and are able to have a relationship (we are wildly different and yet have everything in common, if that makes sesnse). I guess we should get a group text going — who can’t share a meme?
Panda Bear
I don’t have tips, but as an adult, I’m glad my parents took (ok, sometimes dragged) us to these kinds of destinations with family. Yes, even if I was sullen at the time, and spent most it starting at books since no one had cell phones and computers were all giant desktops. Looking back, those experiences are part of why I am now so close to my sister, cousins and other family members. Besides, you deserve to see your sister if you miss her! And even if it doesn’t seem like the message sinks in to the kids, the two of you modelling good family connections is something that I bet will eventually resonate with them, even if it takes decades.
Anon
The ice will thaw a little the more days you are there. But you can’t force it, you have to let it happen organically.
My kids were the slightly younger kids in this scenario, and they’re the urban kids while their older cousins are sort of rich suburb kids. The cousins treated my kids like they were carrying some sort of city disease. It was gross. My sister was very apologetic and said her kids were “shy” but my kids were really sad about it. Not everyone is going to be besties with their cousins!
Anon
OP here. No one has to be BFFs, but they are sort of your people and deserve a chance to find some common ground (pizza? waffles? oh, you are more of a french toast person; do you like Mario Kart?).
My kids are relatively rich very obnoxiously progressive city kids. One makes a stink about a pet issue now, to the point of it coming across to everyone as making everything about her and being incredibly self-centered and knowing everything in the way that only a teen can. Cousins are very smart and in some ways much more independent and live in a regional city in their area (we live in someplace like Bethesda), but are post-divorce poor and having a lot of trauma over their dad abandoning them for his new family (so they have two new local half-siblings in diapers).
Anon
I’m sorry to hear that about the cousins. I think it’s time to talk to your self centered kid about empathy! I know it’s easier said than done with a teen/tween. (BEEN THERE)
anon
Your initial description fits me and my cousins to a tee, especially how we are relatively close as adults despite living across the country. Looking back, what our parents did was frankly, making us stay together in holidays that were heavily focused on the outdoors- e.g., renting the big cabin where all the girls are in one room, boys in another, or everyone piled into our grandparents house. Even though we weren’t close per se during those summer trips, it is those summer trips that make us close as adults. It’s hard to describe. Once you get past the initial awkwardness, it will be ok – even if everyone just bonds about how mad they are at their parents.
Ribena
I think part of it is that even a year or two of age difference makes such a big difference in the teen years?
Fwiw, as an oddball kid (I now realise I’m neurodivergent in at least one way) I always hated the assumption that I’d get along with other kids just because we were the same age. Even when I was 7 or 8 I would have much preferred to be allowed to sit with a book than be expected to play with random kids of friends of my parents – but appreciated being allowed to talk to the adults or be useful in some way (yes this is why I learnt to make tea 15-20 years before I started liking to drink it)
Anon
We do have an autistic kid in the mix, previously unknown to all of us (prior, they were just gifted / quirky). Puberty has hit, so that has driven up the moodiness (OMG when will it stop?). Kids, you think that the last trip was the worst trip ever? Here, hold my beer.
Ribena
So, as that kid, the advice I would give is to – as far as possible – give your kid an out or a job. Even as an adult this is a strategy I use – one of my parents had a milestone birthday this month and one thing that helped make the party a good experience for me was that I was running the music. So I had a ‘job’ and a polite out from conversations. Likewise, when my parents host parties at their house, they know that I occasionally disappear for ten minutes to breathe (although that was mostly during my college years which I found very difficult for reasons I didn’t want to tell all their friends, so I would be lying through my teeth for the whole party, which was part of what made it stressful).
Anonymous
We have sort of the same situation with DH’s brother and his kids – older elementary/early teens. We plan a couple back to back activity days early in the trip to give them something in common to bond over/talk about. Our kids tend outdoorsy so we’ve done hiking trips, ski days, ropes courses, rock climbing. Having a third party instructor there for part of the time helps sometimes. This would also work with like a paint nite outing or chocolate making class or private tour at an aquarium/zoo etc.
It helps if the adults participate and have the ability to laugh at themselves so the teens can bound over laughing about how dorky uncle whoever was trying to do the ropes course.
Ribena
This is a great idea! If part of the issue is that the kids don’t feel they have anything in common – by experiencing something together they will have something in common. What a fantastic way of approaching this!
Anonymous
Even without the pandemic, I didn’t see my cousins on one side of the family all that often in my childhood, and did see the cousins on the other pretty frequently. Honestly, but middle school, it was only slightly less awkward with the ones I saw frequently. You start recognizing the differences in interests, etc., and while we were all cordial, it was harder. Plus you stop “playing” and there has to be an activity. Which is a long winded way of saying, just roll with it. They will either warm up or they won’t. Find activities that everyone can enjoy and hope it happens organically.
Anonymous
I think it helps to have an activity planned each day that you are together. We meet up with our extended family at a beach house every summer and plan things like paddleboarding together one day, mini golf the next, etc. By the end of the second day, they all are back to where they left off last time. With teens, it takes a little bit of time but they get there without it being forced. I am not best friends with my adult cousins, but we get together occasionally and have all those shared experiences to look back on.
Anon
We had a sudden family death that made me think:
– all that I didn’t have in common with my cousin didn’t matter when we were both grieving the sudden loss of her younger brother
– we were not so wildly different (she: model, me: math team) as adults who are just trying to make it through the day each day (we cook! we have hobbies! we like to go out from time to time! we have jobs!).
I wouldn’t want my kids to never get the call re a sudden family death or to show up wondering who those people are and having to meet for the first time.
NYCer
Could you plan a trip together somewhere fun and different? Somewhere like Costa Rica where there are a variety of activities, but far from regular, every day life.
Anon
As someone who only saw my cousins every few years growing up, the truth is that’s just not enough time together to build a relationship. Since my grandparents have died, I haven’t seen any of my cousins. I know a lot of people on here have great relationships with their extended family, but in my experience and those of friends, unless you grow up in the same area you don’t have a rule of real relationship with cousins. I spend my limited family time visiting my patents and brother.
Having said all that, part of being a teen is just complaining. plan a fun trip with your sister and force your kids to go. I strongly suspect they will have fun with their cousins and enjoy the trip, I just wouldn’t expect it to build a lifelong relationship
Anon
Agree with all this. I don’t think your kids are likely to be close if they see each other every couple of years. But that’s ok, they don’t have to be. They’re kids. You plan the trip you want with your sister and your kids will deal.
Anon
Good on you for “forcing” these relationships! I grew up pretty close with my cousins (though a much larger age gap, but all in the same town) and now I see them so rarely.
Anon
Is there a gender aspect to it? My kids (9, 11, 14) have cousins (10, 13) but the genders and age “match”, and they get along like wildfire every time they see each other (about 1 per year or so). But I’ve noticed that they don’t get along as well if the genders don’t match. They also get along well with their wildly younger cousins. My 14 y/o is still kind of young for his age so that might be part of it.
Seventh Sister
I think low-key activities are good. My daughter’s godmother had her over to do some baking with godmother and her similar-age kids and it was a big hit. And give yourself some grace. My mom really moved heaven and earth to try and get us to have a relationship with our first cousins, but it just didn’t work out.
Panda Bear
A lifetime of computer use seems to be catching up with me. Starting a few weeks ago, I find that a few hours of using the mouse hurts my hand. I ordered an ergonomic ‘vertical mouse’ and am interested to see if that helps. Anyone else have a similar experience and any advice?
Anon
I tried a roller mouse and it helped a bit, but it’s really all in wrist positioning. Look into an ergonomic mouse pad.
Anon
I think this was the one I used:
https://www.amazon.com/Kensington-Orbit-Wireless-Trackball-K72352US/dp/B0050SPZMK?ref_=ast_sto_dp&th=1
I changed jobs and left that mouse, so I’m using a regular one now, but that roller one helped me when I was having issues.
Anon
I also went and got active release therapy and it helped a ton. I switched from desktop to laptop (so I quit using ergonomic devices), and the problem came back after a few years, and then I went and got it fixed again. So far, so good.
Anon
I got an ergonomic vertical mouse and it was horrible. Went back to my old one. Getting a desk that was low enough seems to have helped.
anonshmanon
I love my vertical mouse. I was feeling strain whenever I spent hours clicking around on slide decks and graphics. This is only a portion of my job every so often. The mouse definitely helped with that.
Anon
Can you switch mouse use to the other hand? I am right-hand dominant but use my mouse left-handed. My settings mirror the right mouse, so I use the same finger or motion on the left that I would otherwise use on the right. I have been doing this for years as a result of a long ago injury, and now, I don’t even notice which way things are set up when I am on another computer. I helps spread the strain.
anonmi
Switch your mouse to your non-dominant hand. It will take a few weeks to learn, but it helps remove the strain from your dominant hand and the pain should go away. I changed about 10-12 years ago now and only rarely have carpal tunnel flare-ups in my right wrist anymore.
Anon
I had a vertical mouse at my former job and absolutely loved it. It took a solid ~1-2 weeks to get used to and up to normal speed with, but then my hand never hurt. I hope you find the same!
Trish
The side mouse helped a lot. I also wear a brace for about a week when there is a flare up.
Anon
Make sure you are seated in an ergonomically correct position at your workstation. Your elbows should be bent at 90 degrees and your wrists should not be bent either up or down. Switch to a rollerball mouse and use it with your non-dominant hand (which, as others have said, will take a while to get used to, but soon it will feel totally normal). Also try one of those ergonomic split keyboards. Do not neglect this issue. If not corrected it will only get worse and could lead to carpal tunnel. (Speaking from personal experience.)
Anon
Over a decade ago I switched to using a Wacom Intuos small tablet as a replacement for a mouse after I developed issues in my forearm. Wonderful decision. You hold a pen instead of a mouse. No one else I know has found it intuitive to make the switch like I did (if they borrowed my setup to try it), but I think for those of us who like drawing or painting or using our fingers expressively (I am a keyboard player), it’s a simple and magnificent solution.
Anon
Something I didn’t realize about being a manager is how I would sometimes have to be the person to keep huge secrets and have people bare their souls to me.
I generally keep really good boundaries and these discussions come up out of work reasons (like they are asking for a lot of time off) , so I’m pretty confident that this is a good thing not a bad thing… but like, right now I have staff dealing with very heavy stuff.
It’s a rough time for so many people.
Ribena
I was thinking about this morning. I don’t know if by becoming a manager, my manager was signing up to hear about my climate anxiety (extremely relevant to my job role though) or my Prozac prescription… but then equally earlier this week we were talking about making it less taboo to talk about when we feel rubbish for hormonal reasons. (And at a team away day in the autumn we were talking about how weird it is to get a smear test while wearing a mask, so boundaries are questionable…).
Thank you for being gracious about it – I’m sure your reports appreciate it!
Anonymous
Well she didn’t actually. Professional
Boundaries are still an option.
Anon
+1
I can be open with my team and still have boundaries about my anxiety, medication, and Pap smear
Anon
I am an experienced manager. Most of my young staff when I directly managed entry level people were millenials. They are much more sharing (I’m not saying oversharing) than my own Gen X peers, and it was really something to get used to. But I’m a mamabear by nature and I have a “fight the power” personality, so we were usually on the same side of whatever issue, and the vast majority of the time I went out of my way to help them or just comfort and reassure them. I would say the main issue where we often disagreed was unreasonable expectations about promotion & advancement, like: calm down, you’ve been here six months, you’re still not doing the entry level work right, it is not time for advancement. (I didn’t use those words)
My own kids are Gen Z. Just you wait! I will absolutely use the word oversharing to describe them.
Anon
FWIW, I’m a millennial and the staffers in question are millennial, gen x, and boomer. This isn’t so much an over sharing thing as ‘wow, people often need to tell their bosses major life stuff.’
I guess it says something positive about me as a boss that people know they can tell me this and that it will be confidential.
One is dealing with a cancer diagnosis, one has a close family member struggling with addiction related issues, and the third has a spouse with a major health condition. And that’s on top of all the custody situations, underlying health conditions, and normal day to day life stuff that we all manage.
I have gotten really good at being steady and reliable. We also have a confidential employee service number and I’m handing out referrals to them like hotcakes.
But wow. Today it’s heavy.
Anon
They might be telling you these big personal issues because they’re concerned about the potential impact on their job performance. It’s appropriate to tell your manager that, e.g., your spouse was just diagnosed with cancer. On the flip side, if one of my employees is not performing as they usually do, I’ll come out and ask them if there’s something going on in their personal life that’s affecting their performance.
Anonymous
As a lawyer who manages people and has a lot of friends, I carry secrets by the bucketful. And I keep them, so at nearly 50, it’s a lot of buckets. I do take pride in keeping confidences; it is a rare ability.
Sunshine
Someone this morning said Nu Face has been beneficial for her skin. Any other reviews? I’m early 40s with good skin and have been considering one for awhile but haven’t pulled the trigger because I’ve wondered if it really makes a difference in skin quality.
startup lawyer
It does make a difference but you need to be disciplined and do it at least 3x a week (ideally more)
Anon
Read the honest review on wardrobe oxygen.
Anon
Thanks for this suggestion. Basically that review says that NuFace works, but as a device it’s poorly made and often breaks down long before it should. The review suggests buying from Nordstrom or another vendor with a generous return policy. Super helpful.
Anon
I appreciated her advice on that, and if I were to buy one, I’d go the Nordstrom route too.
Anonymous
I have one. It does… something? Maybe? If you use it religiously, I think it helps a bit, but it is not a substitute for botox or actual interventions. I wish I had just saved the money and used it towards my botox.
Sunshine
Thanks for this perspective. I do Botox for my 11s. And I go to the derm for a lasser treatment about once per quarter. I’m fine with spending money on things that I think are improvements for my skin, but I also want to put my money to the best use. I meant to ask about Nu Face last time I got a laser treatment and forgot.
Anon
Does anyone know if you can get samples of skincare at the brand counters of department stores? Or do they just try to make you buy the items? I’m heading to either Nordstrom or Bloomingdale’s, if it matters.
Anon
If you are dealing with a general sales associate like a floater, probably not, but if you befriend someone who specializes in the brand, yes. I am partial to Bobbi Brown for makeup and I use their base, but for skincare I’m all over the place. I read a lot before I go talk to people.
Anon
(by base I mean their under-makeup primer and moisturizer in one, the vitamin enriched face base. my skin really likes it)
Anon
I have sensitive skin and there is no way I would buy a full-size product without trying it first. Most premium brands do have samples for (at least) their best-selling products, just go to the counter, explain what you’re looking for, tell you have reactive skin and ask if they have a sample.
Most stores have more samples than they need and those samples also expire.
I shop for make-up and other cosmetics mostly online and my fav online store has the option of “try before you but”, where they send you the product and the sample. If you are ok with the product’s sample, you keep the product, if it doesn’t meet your expectations, you return the product cost free.
AIMS
Yes and also at Sephora. They have little containers specifically for that purpose.
Anonymous
I am getting a divorce. The attorney bills are so expensive. I know it will be worth it but I really need to change my spending habits for a while. My low hanging budget area: I eat out too often. I live alone now and often get takeout that feeds me for two meals instead of cooking. My ex used to handle the cooking. Any favorite budget meals, that are easy to cook, preferably without eating the same thing every day for a week? I have access to a stove, oven, microwave, and blender, but only have a mini fridge at the moment (no freezer). I hope to move into another housing situation in the next several weeks with a fridge and freezer.
Anon
I love the NY Times Coconut Curry Chickpeas with Pumpkin and Lime, and its mostly canned food so its easy to have the ingredients around. Rice+vegetables+egg is always a good combination (I know eggs are expensive at the moment, but not as expensive as takeout!) In general, you can do a lot with eggs – frittatas, egg salad, omelets, etc. Budget Bytes is a good place to start as well, especially their meal plans. Once you realize how much money you’re saving, you’ll feel much better about cooking more often.
pugsnbourbon
+1 to Budget Bytes and the “put an egg on it” advice. Although I just paid $8 for 18 eggs so YMMV.
Meat is pricey so look for recipes that use cheaper cuts (ie, chicken thighs vs brea$ts). Tuna and canned salmon are also cheap proteins. Frozen vegetables are just as nutritious as fresh. You can bulk out a lot of recipes with beans, lentils and potatoes. You’ll find better prices at Aldi than just about everywhere else, although I’ve found incredibly cheap spices and sauces at Asian and Middle Eastern markets.
pugsnbourbon
Also – sheet pan meals! Super easy and you’ll probably have leftovers.
Anon
Once you get a freezer, get the instant stir fry type meals that you can throw in a pan for 8-10 minutes
Laura
Sweet potatoes are cheap and filling. I’ve made and liked this recipe: https://www.skinnytaste.com/loaded-baked-sweet-potato/
Anon
Make breakfast for dinner a few times over the next few weeks. Bagel, two fried eggs, fruit.
Anon
I’ve been getting Factor precooked meals. Healthier than takeout and easy to not worry about cooking. Relatively cheap too.
Junior Associate
Kevin’s meal kits. You can get them from Whole Foods etc. Takes 5 minutes and you can just cook 1/2 of the two person portion.
Junior Associate
Kevin’s Natural Foods*
Anon
At what point do you tell your parents/family about someone you’re dating? I’m sure this varies hugely by person, situation, familial closeness etc. and there’s no right or wrong way to do it. I’m just genuinely curious how other people handle it.
Anonymous
I’m pretty sure we were moving in together and talking about marriage before my family found out, but I was estranged from my family for a while at the time so there is that….
Anonymous
For me, when the person felt like such a presence in my life that it would have been deliberately hiding that presence when I talked with my family and friends about my life generally. So a mere early date? Definitely not, except in the case I turned to a friend for security backup purposes. More like when I expected to see the same person each weekend and was talking regularly in between.
Anonymous
I’m notoriously private – my family is close but we don’t pry about dating lives. My closest friends found out about my bf about 8 months after we started dating. (For safety, I share location with 2 friends so they suspected I was dating someone but didn’t know who or details). My family met him in stages, starting about a year after we started dating. We are long distance so the year made it feel more like how it would feel with three months of seeing someone several times per week.
Anon
Unless I am moving in with this person/getting engaged or married, I don’t. I am not close with my parents and saying something early causes me more trouble than I have any interest in.
Smokey
It’s been a LONG time since I went into a new relationship (having been married for decades), but I told my family at the point at which we entered boyfriend/girlfriend status.
Anon
When I met my husband many years ago, we’d only been dating for a few weeks when allll of my relatives showed up in my city for a wedding. No time being like the present, we got together the night before the rehearsal dinner so they could meet him. It was a lot for a new relationship for sure, but it turns out in hindsight it was the right thing to do. Especially since the next time they saw him was at Thanksgiving, which in my family tends to magnify the dysfunction (dysfunction on steriods, my siblings and I call it) and I think he might have broken up with me if that had been the first time….
He was not invited to that wedding, or it might have been the same but months earlier!
Anon
Looking for hair styling advice. I have thick, wirey hair that holds a bend easily. Once it hits my shoulders, the strands flip out rather than slide past my shoulders. Is there any styling method and/or product that is reasonable to do on a daily basis that would make my hair more limp/flowy?
Anon
Are you okay with it all being wavy? I would get layers so it’s wavy all through the length rather than just at the shoulders.
But for a product, I find the 8 second wonder water makes my “holds a bend” hair a little flowier.
Anonymous
Have you tried using a hair oil? I use just a little at the roots and tips and then run my fingers through the rest of my hair and it just sort of calms it down and minimizes flyaways somewhat. I would not describe my hair as wiry, though.
Anon
Would you wear a suit on your first in-person day in a workplace that is business casual? I don’t want to look out of place or out of touch but I have a pant suit that makes me feel great.
Anon
I would not. Recent hires have been struggling with this at my workplace, and being too dressy really does leave an unhelpful impression. I would even be prepared to dress down a non-suit further by removing accessories and make-up if you get there and it’s more casual then business casual.
Chl
No. If it’s business casual, that’s not the right look.
Anon
I would have a way to dress it down if you need to. So wear the suit if you love it – i sometimes wear a suit I like in my business casual law office, but know I’ll usually be asked if I have a court setting – but be prepared to ditch the jacket if you sense it is out of place and have a blouse or other top under it that you love.
Anon
Probably not.
pugsnbourbon
Nope. Wear the pants or the blazer from the suit but not the whole thing.
Cat
Agree with this
Anon
I have a business very casual workplace and meet every new hire. Many many many wear suits the first day, which is a sign it is their first day and 100% fine. Like a rite of passage almost. Day 2 people adapt based on what they saw.
Cat
So I partially agree with this bc that’s how it was in 2019 for my office… But OP says it’s her first in person day, meaning she’s already been working remotely a bit, so I think that changes the answer.
Anon
Something I saw on fb that reminded me of this place lately:
Q: How many group members does it take to change a light bulb ?
1 to change the light bulb and to post that the light bulb has been changed.
14 to share similar experiences of changing light bulbs and how the light bulb could have been changed differently.
7 to caution about the dangers of changing light bulbs.
6 to argue over whether it’s ‘lightbulb’ or ‘light bulb’.
Another 6 to condemn those 6 as stupid.
22 to tell THOSE 6 to stop being jerks.
5 industry professionals to inform the group that the proper term is ‘lamp.’
15 know-it-alls who claim they were in the industry, and that ‘light bulb’ is perfectly correct.
49 to post memes and gifs (several are of Michael Jackson eating popcorn with the words added, “I’m just here for the comments.”)
19 to post that this page is not about light bulbs and to please take this discussion to a light bulb page.
11 to defend the posting to this page saying that we all use light bulbs and therefore the posts are relevant here.
24 to discuss the merits of LED/swirly fluorescent light bulbs
44 to claim LED and fluorescent bulbs will kill you.
12 to post F.
8 to ask what F means.
7 to post ‘Following’ but there’s 3 dots at the top right that means you don’t have to.
15 to say “can’t share”
2 to reply “can’t share just copy paste”
36 People to post pics of their own light bulbs.
15 People to post “I can’t see S$%^!” and use their own light bulbs.
6 to report the post or PM an admin because someone said “f÷×$”
4 to say “Didn’t we go through this already a short time ago?”.
13 to say “Do a search on light bulbs before posting questions about light bulbs.”
3 Admins to ban the light bulb posters who took it all too seriously.
1 late arrival to comment on the original post 6 months later and start it all over again.
20 to give up on fb and take their dogs for a walk instead.
And then somebody announces they are leaving the group over the light bulb post, and someone replies back that this isn’t an airport, so no need to announce your departure.
Curious
This is hilarious.
Anonymous
thank you for this!
Senior Attorney
*snort*
I can’t believe I never heard the “this isn’t an airport” thing before, but it’s cracking me up!
Anon
I know there are a lot of Cuyana fans here. Anyone have personal experience with the system tote they want to share? Looking for feedback on size, utility, and durability.
Anon
My Cuyana bag is my everyday carry and it’s still going strong after almost 5 years.
Anon
I’ve been alternating a burgundy zip style in the winter with a stone open style in the summer for (checks calendar) since early 2018 and they’re both still going strong, no issues whatsoever. I traveled every week or every other week for work until March 2020 so they’ve both been through a lot of TSA/under the seat in front of me abuse, not to mention every conceivable weather, and they’re as good as new. Slightly slouchier. That’s it.
Anonymous
The system tote has been around for around 2 years, so I don’t know the wear on that product exactly. I have a few Cuyana bags and small leather items – all do show some wear after the 3+ year mark, but I’m pretty rough on my bags. I do think the weak point on the system tote might be that the handle part might get stretched out if you are overstuffing the bag, I find that happens with the other bags I have.
Anon
I have a lot of size 4-6 professional, conservative suits and skirts that, alas, no longer fit. They are otherwise in good condition. The suits are appropriate to wear to court. The suits are mostly skirt suits, but I do have a few size 4 pant suits that once fit me at 5’11”. I’d like to find someone who can take all I have, keep what fits, and pass on the rest to others in search of professional wear. I’m in the SF Bay Area. If you are this size and need suits and skirts and some blouses, please post a burner email.
Anon
Join a buy nothing group in SF, I live there too and there are plenty of people who will do exactly this.