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Splurge Monday’s Workwear Report: Wool Military Jacket

A woman wearing a orange blazer with white top and denim pants with brown belt

Our daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices.

This military-inspired jacket from Me + Em would be perfect as a “third piece” for an autumnal business casual outfit, or as a gorgeous piece of outerwear for a not-too-chilly day. For the office, I would lean into the bold hue and pair it with a printed blouse that has some of that dark orange color, like this one.

If you’re really into the color, you could go for a fully monochromatic look with matching pants or a silk blouse.

The jacket is $645 at Me + Em and comes in sizes 0-14.

Sales of note for 12.5

408 Comments

  1. Something fun for a Monday morning – my son has asked me to choose a song for our dance at his upcoming wedding. Music is not my wheelhouse, so I need song ideas! My only limitation is that we are not going to start out with something slow then bust into a dance number a la DWTS – I would die of embarrassment!

    3. Aw congrats! My dad and I danced to George Strait’s Love Without End, Amen. It was kind of an odd choice because we’re not religious at all so the whole third verse about the heavenly “father” is inapplicable. But I really loved the message and felt it was perfect for my dad and me. We’ve had a tumultuous relationship at times but I know he loves me unconditionally. It’s been 20 years and I srill get teary when I hear that song.

      1. Oh sorry I missed this was mother son, not father daughter. It probably wouldn’t work for you then. Congrats to your son!

    4. Can we also do a “what not to do”? We were at a wedding once where the groom & his mom danced to the Beatles song “when I’m 64” and it….represented the codependency of their relationship well :/.

      1. OP here and yes…keep them coming! I want a simple, straightforward moment where I don’t ugly cry but no theatrics – just not my style.

      2. Sting’s ‘every breath you take’ is a godawful choice if you listen to the words. Many people do not.

    5. The best choices I’ve seen are where the song was meaningful to the family. Like a favorite song from childhood that you both would sing along to on the radio. Not a song designed to be a ‘wedding dance song’ a la I Loved Her First. One father-daughter dance was to their fave Christmas carol and it was amazing!

      1. That’s really lovely, but for some reason it caused Carol of the Bells to pop into my brain, and now I’m picturing dancing at a wedding to DING-dong-ding-dong, ding-dong-ding-dong.

      3. I am very far away from this point, but my husband and I both sing Blackbird by the Beatles to our children as a lullaby and we both want it to be our songs to dance with them at their weddings.

        1. That was a song I also sang to my kids, and one they (now adults) have each mentioned as a favorite memory.

    7. If you’re of a heritage that has cultural dances, I think that’s a good alternative to corny slow dances and showy over the top numbers.

      1. They’re normally separate — I’m Jewish and the big cultural dance is the Hora but that’s a group dance and not something you’d ever do one-on-one with a parent. At my BFF’s Indian wedding, all the Indian dancing was a group event too.

        I actually think it puts way more pressure on the bride/groom and their parent if they’re performing a cultural dance as a duet, because everyone is watching the actual dancing, whereas if you just sway to a slow song people enjoy the music and watch your faces and don’t care so much about the actual dancing.

        1. Oh, I think it goes without saying that a mother and son Hora or a group dance would be pretty weird and that wasn’t what I was suggesting. :) I did a cultural dance which is normally done by two people and it worked out wonderfully for me.

    8. How about Hey Jude? Not too fast, not too slow, lyrics are not wildly inappropriate.

    9. My dad and I danced to Johnny Cash covering Forever Young. My husband and his mom did In My Life.

    10. I suggested Pride and Joy by Marvin Gaye several years ago to a mom looking for a mother-son dance song. I believe she ended up using it.

    11. My mom went with “What a Wonderful World” for my brother’s wedding, because so many of the songs on online lists were romantic songs that would have been creepy in that context. Lovely lyrics and it’s been covered a lot, so you can find a version that fits.

      2. My Dad chose “What a Wonderful World” for our dance and it was perfect. I am tearing up just thinking about it.

      3. Late to this thread but my late Dad and I danced to this at my wedding 28 years ago. One of my favourite memories of a great day.

      1. Aww. I actually get little misty eyed at the idea of You’ve Got a Friend for this occasion.

        2. I thought you guys were talking about You’ve Got a Friend in Me from Toy Story and I liked that too.

          But as a Carole King fan, I must point out that it’s her song, not James Taylor’s! She wrote it. But they recorded their versions in the same studio so she certainly approved of the James Taylor version. She wrote it in response to James Taylor’s line that there were times he coud not find a friend in “Fire and Rain.”

      2. Your Song was what DH and I used for our first dance. He went with Louis Armstrong Wonderful World, I think, w his mom. I picked Stevie Wonder song to dance with my dad.

    13. Simple Man by Lynard Skynard is one of my favorite songs and I think could work for a mother-son dance.

    14. The Beatles, “All my Life” – short, sweet, not sappy, familiar. I love my dad but we do not have a touchy feely relationship at all being stoic Irish Catholics, and that checked the box.

    15. Teach Your Children by Crosby, Stills, Nash & Young–this was a family favorite when I was growing up and then my sister and our dad danced to it at her wedding. Mid-tempo and so lovely!

    16. We did You Are the Sunshine of My Life for father/daughter and mother/son dance at my wedding. Short, simple, not creepy

    17. I did ‘when you need me’ by bruce springsteen for father/daughter dance at my wedding, but feel like it’d work for mother/son too!
      Is there an artist you listened to a lot when he was little? I strongly associate springsteen songs with my dad so then just filtered from there!

    18. “Sunrise, sunset” from Fiddler on the roof is a parent’s wedding song (“when did he grow so tall”), and a lovely song with crooner style cover versions.

    19. My dad and I danced to “I Wish You Love” by Frank Sinatra (but had the DJ cut the more explicitly romantic intro). My aunt & her son did “I’ll Stand By You” which I’ve never seen before at a wedding and thought it worked well (especially because it had meaning to my aunt).

      Sending you good vibes–I feel like choosing the mother/son dance songs was one of the hardest parts of wedding planning for all involved!

  2. How can I be a good friend to my close friend who is having trouble passing the bar exam? She has taken it 3 times in Illinois and did not pass and is very discouraged. She lives 3 hours away but we talk regularly and that’s when she updates me, I don’t pry. I try to encourage her the best I can. For reference, I am a RN, not a lawyer. She is working in a law office in the meantime (as a paralegal, I think?)

    1. Two questions:
      1. How close is she to passing?
      2. Does she study continuously, or does she study for an exam, take it, stop studying, learn that she didn’t pass, and crams in the short time between administrations?

      Reason I ask about the second: one of my friends didn’t pass the first time. When she found out she didn’t pass, the next exam was coming up fast. She studied hard, took it, *kept studying,* and then took and passed the July exam.

      Especially if your friend is working full time, she is probably best off aiming for the July 2025 administration.

      Now, if she isn’t close to passing, and she’s working hard at passing, I would suggest JD preferred jobs (contract management, compliance, civil rights investigator, Hearing Officer). Hiring managers really like seeing the law degree but don’t need an active license. There is an upward trajectory in those roles that doesn’t happen necessarily for paralegals.

      1. I wouldn’t do any of this unless the friend specifically asked for OP’s advice, which seems very unlikely and isn’t in the post. The person taking the bar is most likely the one who knows more about job opportunities and studying and whatnot. All your statements are true! I just know that I would want my friends to comfort me, not offer advice when they’re not even in the same profession.

        I’d take the lead from her. Sometimes I’ll ask my friends whether they want to vent, watch tv, etc., and I let them know it’s fine to change their minds!

    2. I think you just listen and reflect back what you’re hearing. I wouldn’t offer career advice or try to solve this for her; she is smart and can figure that out for herself.

      That being said… I was just out of a very bad relationship when my bar results were due to come out, and my best friend invited me over to her house for a girl’s weekend. We had wine and she made me delicious meals all weekend while I played with her baby, and on Sunday night, right before I was going to leave, we opened the results together. I passed, but if I hadn’t, I think the weekend of just having someone love on me and tell me I was amazing (after so many years of being told I was not amazing) would’ve really softened the blow. Maybe that will inspire some ideas? I still think of it as one of the kindest things anyone’s ever done for me.

    3. I hate to say it but the stats for passing for a repeat taker are like half that of first-time takers. So platitudes like ‘you’ve got this, you’ll get it next time’ may be cold comfort. I’d probably ask her if she wants time to vent, worry, have a ‘listening ear.’

    4. I have two friends that each took it 3 times and eventually passed. Give her lots of space, try not to distract her, and yes encourage her. The bar exam is no small task, it’s the culmination of a marathon, sort of a small marathon after a law school marathon and a bar prep marathon.

    5. A paralegal I know is in the same situation. She has not asked for my advice, but if she did, I would say she needs to take a leave of absence from work to study, if it is financially feasible. She is trying to study nights and weekends and it just is not working. She is smart and capable, but there is no substitute for time. I understand this is simply not possible for some and that the employer may not be on board.

      1. P.S. I am anon at 11:30 and I am a jerk. You asked for advice on how you could support her and I went right to advice for the paralegal. You are a good friend for asking how to support her. I would keep reaching out to her, and asking for her support in your life, so she knows she is still valued for who she is.

        1. I think this was as helpful, not jerky. When I’ve been failing at something I’m more of a troubleshooter than a venter, so it’s at least nice to give OP some helpful info to share if she is asked.
          Information like this would probably not have occurred to me because I try to just do everything in nights and weekends around work, so if I were OP’s friend I’d love if my friend said “hey, I’ve heard some people take a LOA from work to do this.” It might honestly not occur to me.

      2. +1000000. As someone who failed the bar, I passed it with the help of: actual time off to study for it full time (I think I took 3 weeks off as unpaid leave), a bar exam tutor (pricey, but worth it for the additional support), and lots of coffee. I highly recommend lots of encouraging texts and maybe a $100 gift card to her fave coffee place.

  3. So Michelle Obama was wearing Sergio Hudson at her PA appearances yesterday. Perfection. I can dream about having the lifestyle to wear those suits.

  4. Does anyone have advice for getting smells out of purses? Last year i unfortunately took a sample of a smelly laundry thing (unstoppables) at Costco and chucked the closed plastic packet in my new Chloe purse and left it there for a day or 2. My purse STINKS of this stupid product. I’ve tried a ziploc bag with a paper towel soaked in vinegar. I stuffed it with paper last fall and just took it out and it still smells.

    1. No advice but you just solved a mystery for me. My husband came home from his my in laws with the strongest smelling laundry, and despite things being washed multiple times, the scent is lingering and driving me bananas (I’m a strictly unscented person). It must be some sort of add in. He took my backpack suitcase and I’m not sure it’s usable for me any more… I was thinking about throwing it in the shed for the winter opened out.

      1. I feel like those things should be illegal. They’re instant headache for me. By those things I mean laundry scent boosters. They’re for people who think laundry isn’t clean unless it smells like laundry perfume, and they’ve gone nose blind to it (which is a real thing) because they’re constantly surrounded by it.

        1. I run the school uniform bank at my son’s school and have to sort donations with a wide open window.

      2. I’ve had this with a few Ebay purchases. Maddening because also prefer a scent-free detergent.

    3. Good old fashioned unscented Febreeze will do the job for you. Spot test to make sure it doesn’t harm the lining.

      1. Do they even make unscented Febreze? I’ve never been able to find it!!!

        OP, I would spray w/ vodka, wait a day or so, then spray again, keep at it until smell disappears.

      2. I went to perfume school and we talked about Febreze. Febreze was brand new technology when it was introduced, it actually encapsulates evaporating odor molecules with this new technology that was really groundbreaking at the time.

        When Febreze hit the market, it was unscented, but then Americans thought it wasn’t doing anything because it didn’t smell like anything, so then they added full strength aroma chemicals to it to make Americans think it was successful in combating odors.

        It’s funny to me that now they’re offering a 0% perfume line after its initial failure. I hope it’s successful this time.

        Obviously, I love perfume since I went to perfume school, but I cannot stand laundry scents and from freshener scents. I think they’re mostly all gross.

      1. That risks staining the lining and possibly getting newspaper transfer in the future on things you put in the bag. I would try some of the other options listed first. (Newspaper print these days isn’t what it used to be with all of the cost-cutting. Transfers so, so bad.)

        1. Could use just the paper, without ink. Might have to ask a copy shop or a local newspaper for some plain pages, or try a craft department at a big box store

    6. Vodka and sunshine. Can you turn it inside out, spritz with vodka and put it in the sun for a few hours? Repeat as you are able.

    7. I have not tried it yet, but people with fragrance sensitivities have recommended “Zorb” products to me.

    11. Do you live in a cold climate? Leave it in the cold garage for a few days. Cold does wonders for odors!

    12. I have had luck with a combination of activated charcoal and airing out. Is it a leather purse?

      I have used charcoal from the fish bowl shelf at the pet store to absorb odors. It should not be in contact with your item (can stain), but trapped in an airtight bag or container with it.

      Vodka works for fresh sweat, but not necessarily other odors, since the vodka kills bacteria.

    13. Can you leave it open outside in full sun for a few hours (assuming it’s not a very expensive, delicate purse)?

      Depending on the lining, spray with water first

  5. I’m currently my mother’s executor. My one sibling is just being so difficult. Everything is contentious. I can only barely deal with her via text. She has a copy of the will — everything was left to my dad. If dad doesn’t want something, rather than throwing it out, I offer it up to her, but only if he doesn’t want something. I’m slowly clearing out their house so we can sell it to pay for assisted living, but trying to not overwhelm my dad with what is a series of sad tasks that just keep him present in his losses. I’m nowhere close to done, so this is my life for a while.

    What do I do to stay sane? Running, yes. Husband has really stepped up this past year with helping with the kids (not driving yet, but old enough to be self-sufficient but BUSY) and being a good listening ear (and his situation with his family could pivot quickly), which is immensely helpful. Most all women and a good deal of guys I know are all walking this path. Just get a keg and put it in my front yard for periodic misery / venting gatherings? I feel like we’re all on this common path but just building the plane as we fly it.

    1. I’m really sorry. Could you just send a monthly or quarterly update to her to minimize the impact? I think dealing with her less frequently will give your soul more room to breathe. Like: “Jane, dad’s decided to donate the living room hutch, mom’s collection of scarves, and the entire Tupperware collection. Do you want any of that? We’re planning to have Goodwill come get all of it on the 15th, so if you can come by before then, it’s yours.” Rather than individual texts when he makes the decision on the hutch and the scarves and the Tupperware.

      1. I’m thinking don’t update her at all. She didn’t inherit anything. Just clean the house as you see fit and stop including her, OP.

        1. Agree with this. I realize in hindsight that when I was doing elder care, I spent far too much time trying to mollify people who didn’t have to be mollified. Your job is to execute your mom’s will, not coddle your sister.

      2. Maybe advise the 15th, but set the firm Goodwill date as the 22nd. Sometimes difficult siblings are difficult.

    2. I did this with my dad, and the answer was stop dragging it out, take a week off, and get it done. He felt so much better once it was actually over. We sorted out treasures to keep and then called a removal company for most of the rest. It does no one a kindness to let this linger.

    3. Good advice here to send periodic reports or get it all done with quickly.

      I also wonder, if your sister isn’t a beneficiary, why do you have to deal with her so much? What would happen if you told her that the way she was engaging made things difficult for you and you preferred XYZ? Or, if she’s really awful, what would happen if you moved communication to email and, if necessary, blocked on phone/text for awhile? Or, if she’s not that bad and just doesn’t have enough to do, can she take some of the load of helping your dad?

    4. If your communication with your sibling is just a courtesy about stuff she may want, can you just put all of that in spare room or a storage pod and let her know once the sorting is done? She can then come take what she wants by a set date, at which time whatever she has not retrieved gets donated.

    5. I’m so sorry you’re dealing with this. Hello sandwich generation right? I’m listening because I’m right behind you as my parents get older and my kids get older.
      Why is your sister being so difficult? Did she feel snubbed not being asked to be executor?

    6. I didn’t have a difficult sibling to deal with. But I did have to do the clean out. I agree with two posters: first, take time off, hopefully a week before the end of the year, and sort through the stuff. There isn’t any reason your kids cannot help you do this. I did it all at once when my mom died, and it was exhausting, and I had helped my mom do it when my grandmother died – we turned on music, brought in pizza for lunch, and just went with efficiency. Be ruthless. Get rid of as much as you can. Sure you have memories related to your mom’s specific item; but will you really use it and do you really want to keep it? You can only keep so much stuff when you already have your own home.
      Second, put anything you think your sister might want in one area. When you’re done sorting through it all, she gets a specific amount of time to take whatever she wants in that area. She will complain that she didn’t get enough stuff or ask “how in the world did you throw out mom’s used underwear when you know I wanted them?!” Ignore. Do the best you can with the resources you have. This drawn out method with the constant interactions with her will kill your heart.

    7. Totally sympathize. My husband and I each lost a parent in the last few years and had to manage eldercare for a stepparent. It’s brutal. Vent to friends, vent to us internet strangers, and make sure to take some time for yourself, because you need it.

      Is there any way you can enlist your sister to help? Like the two of you spend a week clearing out the house, checking what your dad wants and then deciding between yourselves if you want anything or where to donate it? Maybe if she’s involved, she will be easier.

    8. Is there a specific item she wants? If there is and your dad doesn’t want it, then why not offer it to her? I will just play devil’s advocate for a second because I’ve been through this as well. My sibling didn’t see the value of things I specifically wanted and just said it was all junk to be gotten rid of. Except the thing had sentimental meaning to me. So if you know your dad doesn’t want something, make sure you’re not also being difficult by blocking someone from something they really want if your dad doesn’t want it. If it’s more that she wants everything of value, that’s another issue.

  6. Would love the group’s thoughts on a work thing.

    I’m an independent consultant with a background in product management and strategy. I was brought into a company to develop a product roadmap to improve the product’s ability to do X. Fixed fee of $40k, paid 40/60, estimated to take 10 weeks, full SOW with milestones and deliverables.

    About 4 weeks into the project, sort of by accident, I discovered a major bug in their product, flagged it for engineering, and now, the product works as it was supposed to all along and doesn’t really further improvement on X.

    What’s my next step here? I’m almost positive we are going to have a meeting about this so I’m thinking ahead. They can just pay me the 60%; I can finish the work I was doing to scope the work and write specs (which seems nuts), I can propose building an alternate roadmap now that X isn’t the most pressing issue, or I can offer that they use my remaining time in an alternate way.

    I don’t want to just agree to walk away; I fixed their problem and it cost them way less development time than expected. But I also don’t really have a deliverable anymore.

    1. I’m not in the same industry, but am I reading that you solved to their needs, just faster and in a different way than they expected? If that’s the case, I’d expect the full fee, and the bonus to them is it took fewer personnel resources to get there.

      1. Yes- but my deliverable is no longer something they will have any use for.

        Imagine being hired to write a report and halfway through, they no longer need a report because one becomes available for free.

        I know they should pay me, but I’m trying to be proactive about a conversation I’m expecting them to have about the end of the engagement.

        1. Your deliverable was solving their problem, and you did it. I’d start from the place that I expected the full fee, but I’d happily negotiate a discount for a continued relationship.

      3. Exactly. In fixed price contracts, which is what this is, the vendor takes the risk and owns the reward of the project taking a different amount of time than planned.

    2. Personally, I’d present it as your solving the problem early. They could then use the remaining hours for 1) continue SOW as outlined 2) use hours to advise on growth of the solution 3) open scope for something else. I would not discount based on your fixing their problem early.

    3. 1. what does your contract say about termination by the client?
      2. you solved their problem, just in a way they didn’t expect, so I’d start from that viewpoint.
      3. if technically you have the right to receive your full fee under the contract, but in the interest of business development you’d be willing to give a discount, think about if you have a number that would still make sense to you (like did you turn down other work because of this project? make sure you don’t go below what you could have earned), but would feel warm & fuzzy to the client.

      1. This 100 percent. This starts as a contract question, and ends as a business relationship negotiation.

    4. How cooperative and reasonable is this client? My old company was not and would find ways to abuse IC time. If I were an IC in your position with my old company, I would have just reminded them the fee was a flat fee effectively and the deliverable was a working system, so they should pay the remainder and by done. If the client is more cooperative and reasonable you could give them some alternatives.

    5. I think it’s obvious that you’d write up is “the problem with delivering X was this bug in the software. I identified the bug, the bug is fixed therefore, the product does X- thank you for your business.”

      And they should absolutely pay you the full amount – you saved them way more than that.

    1. I like their sneakers but the leather on their dressier shoes does not justify the price point IMHO.

    2. I find they run a touch narrow/small on the more structured styles. I typically take a 9 in most styles but in J. Crew a 9.5 is more comfortable, with a 10 being firmly too big.

  8. Oufff. The emotions are so rough. The election. The time change. The last US leg of the eras tour. A chemical pregnancy. Halloween. I may combust into a puddle of nacho cheese sauce.

        1. Nothing wrong with liking a concert, but kind of weird to give it the same weight as the election and a miscarriage…

          1. I’m sorry my personal feelings about my life aren’t yours? And that the way I am experiencing my miscarriage, which included giving myself a shot in the tush at the eras your last weekend, is not normal enough for you?

          2. And then voicing that to the individual made things so, so much more “normal.” Congrats to you…?

          3. Not nearly as weird as picking at a woman who is saying she’s having a hard time for daring to mention something you think is frivolous.

          1. You seriously feel the need to double down on the poster who just went through something awful like that?

            Grow up. And by that, I mean it in a very literal sense. As you experience truly significant loss in life, you realize this is so much what grieving often looks like. It’s feeling like what was there one day isn’t going to be there the next. Passage of time feels different. Things that you once enjoyed hit different.

            I’m seriously disgusted by so many of you who think this is a moment to attack or belittle someone’s taste in music. And feel value in judging an emotional post with the cruelest demand for logic. Grief doesn’t look like that all too many times.

      3. “Just because something’s cliche doesn’t mean it’s not awesome. The worst kind of person is someone who makes someone feel bad, dumb or stupid for being excited about something.” — Taylor Swift

    2. I’m sorry about your lost pregnancy. I’m trying to find very concrete tasks to do today and tomorrow, and leave all of the squishy stuff for a hopefully less-stressful day (haha?). But it’s rough going!

    3. I spent both days this weekend wallowing on the couch, eating cereal and watching my comfort show (Friends). I feel a bit better today. 10/10 recommend.

    4. I put out Christmas. Drinking coffee in the morning with a house of twinkly lights is my happy place.

    6. I had a chemical pregnancy about 2 years ago really did a number on me. My emotions were all over the place and it wasn’t even this election. Hugs from an internet stranger. Not sure if it helps to hear, but I did end up getting pregnant shortly after and my little guy is going to be 1 years old this week.

        1. I made cheese sauce twice this weekend (roux + milk + cheese) while my low-fat-diet partner was away, and it was super comforting. Highly recommend warm cheese as election antidote, if it fits in your diet.

    9. Hugs. Indulge in the good cheese and make sure your bed is as comfortable as possible. Try to go for a walk and listen to a very frivolous podcast. It’s going to be ok.

      1. Y’all being fully unhinged today. Sorry my feelings aren’t perfect. Really appreciate everyone who met a vulnerable post with kindness and helpful suggestions.

        1. Your feelings ARE perfect. People here are always particularly grumpy on Mondays and Fridays, but these comments are uniquely cruel.

          1. Cruel to joke over being. bereft at the end pf the Eras tour? I hope that’s the full extent of the cruelty you experience in life.

          2. Where does it say she’s bereft about that?????? There are a lot of legit difficult circumstances listed, along with the tour. People who don’t understand that are being willfully obtuse.

        2. And, don’t you worry, I am 100% with you on the Eras Tour ending. It has been a source of joy and brought a sense of connectedness in an otherwise “challenging” world. I watched the livestream of the last U.S. show last night and teared up when she and her dancers embraced. Nothing wrong with your feelings. Ignore the grumps.

          1. Thanks!! And yes exactly. It’s just been happy! In an otherwise sad year for me

          2. yep, a lot of us feel this way. it’s been a constant source of joy for a few years.

      2. Some people on here need some manners. I can think of many reasons that this would just add a component of sadness (note she didn’t say that was the ENTIRE reason).

        Clearly the OP is trying to have a child right now, and a lot of people went to the concerts with their friends and families, so that adds some dimension.

        It’s a fun cultural moment for a lot of people and provided levity in a world that feels very heavy right now.

        It feels like the end of something to a person who already is experiencing some difficult “ends” or is fearing more “ends” in this moment.

        Perhaps try looking at others’ grief or exhaustion through a lens of compassion instead of judgment, and your outlook might also improve.

      3. A straw can break the camel’s back. Have you never been so exhausted and frustrated, that a very minor thing set you off? Like, you had big stuff happening, but the thing that sets off the tears is that you forgot your lunch at home, or something equally small?

        1. I can laugh about it now, but I was in a particularly stressful time in life and cried when my husband made the wrong pasta type than I asked for for dinner.

    11. I couldn’t name a Taylor Swift song if you put a gun to my head, but I hear you and am sending big hugs, OP. So sorry for your loss!

      1. How have you escaped her!? Maybe I’m grumpy because my city just had the tour and people went absolutely nuts about it (my kid’s school had an entire Taylor-themed week, and that was just one of many themed things I had to endure) but I’m so jealous of people who can escape her pervasiveness. And I actually used to be a pretty big fan of her music.

        1. I live a Taylor free life and I do it by being a DINK and listening to modern metal/alt music. The most I deal with her is when the interns at work bring it up.

          1. It’s invaded my workplace too! There was a Taylor costume contest on Halloween. I actually like a lot of her music, but the saturation is making me never want to hear her name again.

          2. We are retired Boomer DINKs (wekk, our one kid is out of state and grown) and play classical music in the car.

          3. I’m a dink and I love Taylor. I can afford to see her perform in eras, in the good seats. YMMV

        2. Way to make someone’s post about something so awful about…folks having better taste in music?

          What the heck is wrong with you guys? Not the time. Sometimes it’s kinder to just scroll. Or even just have that conversation on some other post entirely.

          I hope if you ever go through something so awful that the world is a little kinder.

          2. Not grumpy in the least. Just disheartened that when someone talks loss like this in a community of mostly women that it’s met with such absolute callousness.

  9. We’ve talked about kids in sports before, and a recent comment has stuck with me; a poster said her parents always made her feel like there’s no place they’d rather be than standing in the rain on the soccer field on a cold Saturday morning. I guess I…don’t do that?

    We have four kids, the top two do rec sports, but the oldest is getting more into competitive baseball. And our third has been waiting his whole life to be old enough for tee ball (and is the most athletic of the bunch!) so we have a lot of years of this ahead of us. We probably go to about 50% of everybody’s games as a family, but split up the rest of the time, either because of conflicting schedules, or because it’s not fair to drag the siblings all around (IMO). If it’s an important game, like a tournament, we will do everything for all of us to go. But weekly 8:30am soccer games? I will nope out of that and stay home with some of the siblings, while my husband goes to watch. In the future I can also envision situations where we send kids with a teammate and neither parent goes, as life gets busier.

    I think there’s a balance to strike between supporting a kid, and showing them you delight in something because it lights them up, with communicating this is THEIR activity and passion and the rest of the family doesn’t revolve around them. Any comments about how your parents successfully pulled this off?

    (And yes I know having four kids means we have to make decisions etc etc, but we decided there are more pros than cons in a bigger family — parents keeping some distance in youth sports can be one of those pros.)

    1. I played tennis and lacrosse and doubt any parent went to anything other than maybe an end-of-season banquet. They both worked! How would they attend an after-school game back when jobs were done at the workplace? I had a sibling who did other things also. I also was in a symphony and we had a small carpool and no parent ever stayed (often the driving to parent was not the picking up parent); they did attend the concerts though. When I was younger and swam at the Y, my mom went to the track to run; it was too hot and humid in the bleachers to watch that.

    2. I don’t think my single dad ever went to a game or tournament or meet. But, he always, always was up to cook me breakfast and pack a lunch (or give me lunch money if I preferred) and drive me to wherever I needed to go even if it was 6:30 on a cold winter Saturday morning. He made sure I had everything I needed and made me tea/a snack while I was studying. He told me he was proud of me a lot.

      I felt well supported and I don’t think it even occurred to me that he should have been at my games.

      1. +1. You have four kids! You definitely do not need to drag all your kids to the baseball field every single week. It is totally fine if you are not at every game. Just be interested in general – ask questions, get a recap from your kid, etc – and show up when you can.

    4. I think there is a huge difference between a parent who says “oh honey, I wish I could go but I have to take care of your siblings” and a parent who says “no way in hell am I getting up at 8:30 to drag my ass to a field and watch kids run in the wrong direction.” I grew up with one of each, and I am very close to the parent who probably was telling sweet white lies about why they couldn’t do something and have a very strained relationship with the “honest” (but brutally so) parent.

      1. And honestly, I think the brutally honest parent did as much if not more of the stuff than the white lies parent! But they also complained about me to me every chance they got, and that soured the experiences.

        1. +1. My brutally honest parent was my mom who also did the organizing/supplying for my extracurriculars. My dad did the driving and cheering us on. As an adult/mom I appreciate the labor she did but I’m still much closer with my dad as he was the only one who ever said anything close to ‘good job’ or ‘I’m proud of you’.

      2. Maybe this is the crux of my question…I fear I’m a little bit of the second parent, but the siblings provide good cover. And I’m definitely not “brutal” about it. But my kids know I am a real night owl who will stay up and chat with them past their bedtimes, but I hate dragging myself out of bed on weekends (my husband is the opposite and that’s why we work together!). They KNOW I would rather stay home and drink coffee and read a book than shiver on the sports field, and I skipped my share of morning games even before the infant was on the scene.

        In sum total, I go to a lot of games and shuttle them around to all the practices. I ask them about their sport over dinner and get excited with them! But, I’m a person too, and I think it’s okay for me to communicate that I love them but a soccer field is NOT where I’m going to be in the cold and rainy morning? (Absent, like, a championship game or something)

        1. Co-sign. Female adult leadership in scouts is so thin that if I don’t camp, no kid gets to camp. I like a hotel. And a beer. And indoor plumbing. And yet I am there, in the woods, under caffeinated. I’d love to not be there but no other moms step up. At least my kids know I’m in the trenches with them in this (but not sports or music practice or debate team).

        2. i think if you can make one game a season it would probably mean a lot to your kid. my kids just played soccer with a kid who is the oldest of 4 and her mom was able to come to one game (opposite problem here, our weather is still SO hot and her mom can’t handle the heat) and the kid was SO excited. otherwise dad brought her. there was one game where i think a friend brought her, but she was the only kid without a parent there.

        3. I think it’s totally fine. Kids understand their parents’ personalities. My kid knows I don’t enjoy sitting in the mid-day sun on a soccer field on a hot, humid September day (oh I how I wish our soccer games were cold!) and watching sports. I don’t see what I would gain by lying to her about it. Unless you act unenthused every time you’re asked to spend time with your kids, which you obviously don’t, you’re fine.

        4. I think you’re conflating having needs and desires as an individual human and how you’re communicating about them. The boundaries you’re setting are completely fine. But ask yourself whether your communication of those boundaries serves your end goals.

          For example: my parents left our wedding immediately after the parent/child dances, and my brutally honest parent said “all the parental parts are done now, and there’s no one here we want to talk to and we can’t really hear anyone over the dance music anyway.” What does that serve over “it’s been a long day, and we’re zonked, but you look beautiful and we’re so happy for you?” I actually think both are pretty honest, but one is brutal and just not what you want to hear from your parents at the wedding. This parent complains all the time that we aren’t closer and it’s like, you told me I was an inconvenience for you all of my life, so why would we be close now? People like to be with people who want to be with them.

          So: be polite and considerate in how you communicate, but do stick to the life choices that work for you!

          2. Judging from the Anon above and other responses here, I can imagine a future in which you are the favorite parent of the non-sports kids, but notsomuch of the sporty ones. And maybe that’s okay.

          3. omg I cannot believe your parents actually said that to you. parents should stay at their kid’s wedding reception until the end

        5. I’m just beginning to navigate this as a step-parent. H puts in serious effort to be there as often as he’s able, but I can’t burn all my leave going to every event that’s 3 hours away and scheduled for 3PM on a Tuesday. Expectations for what parents attend have changed so much since I was a kid, along with when these events are scheduled.

          1. There’s a big difference between saying ‘Sorry kiddo, I can’t make it I have to work, can’t wait to hear all about the game over icecream when you get back’ vs ‘Your game isn’t worth wasting my leave, so I need to work’.

          3. I commented at 11:45, and that was intended to be a response to 11:35! But I will agree with the comment at 11:44. Kids want to know THEY matter, and the things that matter to them also matter to you.

        6. eeeeehhhhhh – I’m the OP of the comment. All I can say is that my sports mattered a great deal to ME, and the person you want to see you the most as a child is your parents. While it might have been true that they would have preferred to stay home and drink tea, I’m deeply grateful they never said this to me directly.

        7. This might be a problem that gets easier as the kids get older. IME, the schedule flipped around age 13 or 14 and suddenly everything was after 7 pm, sometimes running until midnight. I think as long as you are enjoying it once the games become evening or night events that they won’t remember the drizzly cold mornings where nobody was enthusiastic.

    5. My model is dance, where parents were allowed to watch once a year and then one recital. My mom supported me by getting me there, paying for it, making sure all my tights and leotards were clean etc. I don’t think kids need any particular way of showing you love them as long as you have A Way. Your kids won’t remember you loving their dumb sports but they’ll remember something else you did!

      1. This is sort of how my mom was. My mom was a great pre-activity supporter, but the activities were mine, not hers! (The way our society handles kids’ activities is pretty insane, IMO.) Mom made sure my uniforms were clean and I got where I needed to be, but she was not at every game or practice. And didn’t need to be. But she chose a couple activities to be involved in annually and I remember those. (Girl Scout cookie mom and school bake sale chair) She really enjoyed those and put her heart into those and the organizations appreciated her efforts. I’m all about bringing that model back!

        But I have friends who were college athletes and their kids are every bit as athletic as they were, and their FB posts are nothing but photos of Junior at meets, how Junior has qualified for XYZ elite event, Junior winning ABC. Are your kids elite athletes and their practices and games will be formative in their long athletic lives or are you kids running wrong way on the field? Haha. Use your good judgment about how to be the best parent to your kids.

        1. And conversely for the very involved parents, what happens if the kid just gets bored of being an athlete or gets a serious injury or wants to try theatre? Some amount of those families are going to freak out because they’re so heavily invested in the sport as a family offering. Some amount of those parents are not gentle and supportive, but close to abusive on the sidelines. You may not know who the crazy sports parents are if you don’t see their parenting often.

          I think the emotional bond you create is the most important thing, and there are different ways to get there. But do watch one game at least (no one came to cross country meets!!!).

    6. Hello! I probably made that comment. I was a very, very competitive athlete (and paid for a D1 education with one of my sports). Ironically, I also have 4 kids, including a travel baseball player, and three other kids who are also diligently pursuing passions (some athletics and some arty).

      To flesh out the comment, it wasn’t about never missing a game or practice, or being wildly invested in any achievement. In fact, it was the opposite. Unlike my teammates who really struggled or burned out, my parents seemed to delight in just being WITH me, not coaching me (either as an actual coach or just a sideline or post game critic) and clearly not caring how whether or not I succeeded. It was about them making friends with other parents, so they were engaged on the sidelines with their friends. Or during travel, going out to meals with other parents or helping coordinate food. Getting to know my teammates/friends. They saw I loved my sports, and did what they could to just enjoy my enjoyment with me. They did the same for my brother – who played in a band, never did sports.

      It was also about facilitating my love of the sport. I was the driver of the activity, but if I wanted to do something – they didn’t schedule vacations over games, or make it hard for me to get to practices. If I asked for extra help, they found ways to support me.

      I see it now with my kid’s activities. The parents who make their child’s success put too much pressure on their kids. The parents who are “coaching” their kids on their swing from the bleachers make the kid feel worse when they strike out. The parents who are complaining about driving or how long the games are putting a huge burden on their kids to perform well so it’s “worth” it to your parent to be there.

      We try to show up when we can, hug our kids, tell them we love them when we are there, and never discuss specific misses or errors. When we can’t show up, I ask them to tell me all about what I missed and try to delight in their re-telling.

      I guess, boiled down, it’s about meeting your kid where they are — if they love something, I want to delight in their love and share it with them. Also, honestly, it makes it more fun for all of us. We don’t sweat the losses or misses, but it’s FUN to share in what someone loves.

    7. I think you’re fine. I only have one child, but watching sportsball is not my thing, especially when my kid is not very good at or interested in it, which is normally the case. She did rec soccer for the first time this fall, and I only attended about 20% of the games. It was mainly her thing with her dad, who is much more sporty, and I think that’s fine — we have plenty of other stuff we do together one-on-one.

      I was a serious competitive figure skater as a kid and my parents spent a lot of time and money supporting it, but they didn’t take it to the level some skating parents did. My mom attended most out of town competitions, except when she had work conflicts, and all local shows, but almost never attended practice, and my dad only attended the big annual ice show. I was glad to have the space, believe me! There’s a very fine line between supportive parent and stage parent. That was part of why I didn’t like attending the soccer games — many parents (including my husband) were really into it, and shouting instructions to the kids from the sidelines and it really stressed me out. It seemed way too intense for 6 year old rec soccer.

    8. Ha! I was a cross country skier, which is extremely spectator unfriendly. You can’t really see anything unless you’re also on skis, and even then you can barely see anything and you’re freezing the whole time. Cross country running is a little better (it’s warmer, you don’t need skis), but in both cases it was pretty rare for parents to come to races and nobody cared. Sports were for me, not my parents.

    9. Ooh boy, I have an unpopular opinion. Sports are the kids’ hobbies. I don’t attend that many of their games. I am a single mom with a demanding job. I work hard to put food on the table, a roof over their heads, and save for college. I spend every evening with my kids, and we do lots of things together. We have a very happy family dynamic. I pay attention to their school work, travel with them, and spend as much time as I can with them. But I do not spend the small amount of free time I have watching the kids play sports. That’s for their personal enjoyment. They play sports because they enjoy them, but it’s not much deeper than that.

    10. As long as you don’t complain about the time/money of your kids activities it’s fine. My parents did irreparable harm by complaining about my swimming (very inexpensive, pool was 10 minutes from the house) while dishing out tens of thousands for my brother’s hockey and driving multiple states away for tournaments.

      1. That seems like the disparity between the treatment of you and your sibling is the real issue. I’m the figure skater from above. My parents complained about how much money they spent on it, which I understood and don’t blame them for. It was a lot of money! Families bankrupt themselves for that sport (although we weren’t at that level). But agree, don’t complain about the spending on one kid’s activity and not the other kid’s activities.

    11. I think your attitude that sports games are an obligation to be suffered through will be picked up on by your kids. Whether they will love sports enough for that to be an issue to them, who knows.

      1. Some kids can love something more than anything else on the planet and will still have it ruined by unsupportive parents. It’s not a matter of their love out powering a sourpuss parent

    12. I played sport to a national level a both U16, U18 and U21. My parents went to zero games. It didn’t used to be a thing. One or two parents watched us play because they had driven us. Today I don’t feel like my parents neglected me because they didn’t show up for games. They asked me how I played, how training and practice was going, checked in with the coaching team weekly and made sure I had the kit needed.

      My father worked very hard, my mother was a housewife. Today, we as parents are expected to work full time, over parent and run/maintain a home. You have done enough getting them to practice and games. Take the time to exercise, rest etc.

      1. I am 45, and my parents came to all my activities! I’m glad they did. We all have great memories from that time. Same with my husband’s family. It’s totally fine if that model doesn’t work for your family — but I disagree with a blanket statement that it wasn’t a thing.

        1. I think it depends more on which sport than family culture. I did figure skating semi-well and high school track terribly. Most kids had a parent at skating competitions, even out of town ones, but in high school track we rode to the meet on school buses as a team, and I don’t recall ever seeing any parents there. I guess at big meets like regionals the parents of the good runners probably came? But my parents attended 0 track meets and they, especially my mom, were generally super involved and showed up for everything. I have zero trauma from them not attending, and probably would have been mortified if they’d shown up because none of my friends’ parents were there.

    13. I only have one kid left at home and my husband and I go to everything, as do siblings when they are home. But when we had three running around doing everything all at the same time? We would divide and conquer.

    14. You don’t need anyone’s permission to skip practices and games. You don’t need to prove to anyone here now morally superior you are for doing so.

      But you might ask yourself why you’re so defensive about it.

      1. I did ask for feedback, so I will examine that…I guess if I am defensive it’s because there is such a culture of sacrificing everything for your kid, and if you don’t bow at the alter of youth sports then you are messing your kid up for life. And as a non sporty kid, I do have some preconceived notions, so I guess I’m asking for real opinions on how people’s parents’ attitudes about it affected them. I appreciate the comments about how the boundaries could look the same but the message communicated to the child can vary, so I will be more intentional about what I say. I do truly enjoy supporting them in sports, but don’t want it to be a family expectation that parents go to every game.

        And maybe things will look different in each stage of life. I currently am up at night with both the infant and toddler multiple times, so I guess that is also why morning sports games aren’t my jam? And if my kids see me prioritizing my own rest right now, is that morally superior? Is it mean?

        1. You’re doing great. For my own sample of 2, me and my sibling, the negative memories we have are from when a parent (my dad) said they would attend something and then no-showed. We didn’t have much money growing up were raised from a very early age that “I have to work” and “it’s not in the budget” were real limitations and not excuses for them not wanting to do something. Knowing ahead of time that a parent had to work made it no big deal – we understood that it was necessary for keeping us all fed and housed.

        2. your 3rd kiddo who is a toddler is about to start playing tball? that will actually likely require a parent to be there because parents are still involved so much in facilitating the practices/games at that age.

          I commented above, but I do think in this day and age a parent is typically at every game, especially when the games are on weekends and the kids are younger. it is different once they are on school teams and games are at 3pm on a Tuesday or tournaments/games last for hours and hours and hours. I don’t think this means the entire family needs to go to every game, but if you go as a family some of the time, which it sounds like you do, I think that’s fine and great! also, maybe you can’t go to the game, but you can take them to buy their cleats or go to the end of season party. my friend who is a mom of 4 said that growing up her parents seemed to have very little interest in getting to know her friends, her friends’ parents, etc. and that had a big impact on their relationship.

          1. Oh yes, we will be at tee ball…my husband is even thinking of coaching it (which means maybe I won’t actually be going to many of those games if they overlap with the other kids’!) I use toddler loosely, he is 3 and will turn 4 in the spring. I guess my point is that one parent is always at a game right now while they are young, but we aren’t BOTH at every game, and my husband does go more often than I do because it’s a bonding thing for him and the boys. It seems in a lot of families with two kids both parents do go to every game (possibly more bandwidth?) and that just won’t be our way, out of necessity but a little bit out of preference too. It’s the “preference” part I’ve been a bit hung up on.

        3. I have responded to you a few times – being a mom of 4 with parents who were extremely supportive. It seems that my way isn’t yours, and that’s just fine, although I’m glad you are taking the comments about how to communicate your boundaries with your kids to heart. I guess my last word on this subject is that I didn’t have to share resources (parent time, love, and money) with 3 other siblings, but my kids do. There is less of me to go around, so I try to be really, really intentional with each child about celebrating the things they love and getting to know their friends/world. They did not choose to grow up in a big family — my husband and I made that choice for them. I do not martyr myself for their sake, but I also really can’t imagine saying to them “This isn’t fun for me, so I’m going to stay home,” especially when they already have “less” of me than an only child would.

          1. I’ve been reading your replies and appreciate them! Good point about having less of me to go around. I think because I was basically an anti-sport kid, I do put a lot of value on other forms of connection. I spend 30 min solo with each big kid at bedtime, reading and chatting. And I’m currently at home so I spend alllll day with my 3yo and baby.

            But I take your point that if sports are/become super important to them, maybe they will put more value on that type of connection. And I promise I do show up to a lot, and def the big things! My oldest was in a state travel tournament last summer, when I was 3 weeks postpartum, and we alll went to every game multiple nights in a row. I cheered louder than anyone!

          2. You sound like a great, thoughtful mom — your kids are lucky to have you. From one mom of 4 to another, keep it up :) We got this.

        4. I know it’s late in the day for this thread, but I was an Activities Kid when I was young, and my parents came to some things and not others (both worked, there were 2 of us, both in different stuff). I was never upset when my parents couldn’t make it, in and of itself. What was important to me was knowing that my life and interests were important to my parents.

          Both parents attended about the same amount of events (sometimes together, sometimes not), but only one parent acted like my talents and interests mattered/weren’t solely a burden. That parent asked questions about practices and competitions, how things were going, and mak sure that I had what i needed to participate/had rides, etc even if they could not (or didn’t want to) be present for the competitions. My other parent acted like I was an inconvenience and like my activities were boring and stupid.

          As long as the kids know they matter to you, in my experience, it all works out. It’s OK that my harsh parent didn’t share my interests (and the supportive parent didn’t always either!). It was OK when they weren’t there. What stings in adulthood is the brutality of being told point blank that what mattered to me was dumb and not worthy of time or effort.

    15. I swam competitively and my parents weren’t super into it, but they made it possible for me–financially and logistically–and that was enough. We lived in FL at the time and swimming was a huge time commitment – practice year round, 6 days a week, often twice a day, on the other side of town from where we lived, plus meets on the weekends with some frequency, many of which involved travel. I was involved in a LOT of carpools. I have no idea how much all of this cost but I’m sure it was not cheap.

      I have 2 other siblings who did not swim, and my parents are not athletic at all. They also didn’t have much in common with most of the swim team families; frankly, neither did I. (For some reason the most prominent swim team families were pretty Christian and conservative, sent their kids to private schools, and were oddly into conversion minivans. My mother at least was not into any of this, and my father traveled a lot for work). And it made sense to me that they weren’t going to be as invested as I was. I have zero resentments.

    16. I think parents should have their own lives and emphasize that the world doesn’t revolve around their kids. I played a sport competitively from elementary through high school and my mom was always up in my business about it. I hated it. She would complain about not having time to work out or do anything for herself. There’s a gym within walking distance! Go to the gym! Go do anything else! I hated that she was always hovering. And I hated – still to this day – how she martyred herself for my passion. It’s sooo time consuming for her to be suchhhh an involved parent. No please go away. You don’t need to be part of every conversation with my coach.

    17. It’s not about the sports attendance, it’s about parents who find a way to support their child in a way that was/is meaningful to that child. I wasn’t sporty as a kid, but didn’t care if my parents went to my orchestra concerts because (like another poster said) that was my hobby, not theirs. However, I look back fondly on going on motorcycle rides with my dad. I love hiking, hate doing it with my parents, but my mom and I can spend ages taking about the cool books we’ve read. Sports doesn’t have to be Your Thing, unless that’s the only thing that’s important to your child.

    18. As the other kids get older I would default to not having siblings attend any games except maybe the state championship. My daughter was a competitive gymnast for years, and chatting with the siblings who had been made to quit their activities so they could go to all of their sisters’ meets made me sad. It also made me sad to talk with her friends who were dragged along to their brothers’ baseball tournaments every weekend, and not allowed to participate in any sports of their own except possibly cheerleading. My husband and I were super-indulgent parents of an only child and we were almost always able to accommodate her preferences for meet attendance, but if she’d had a sibling we definitely would have excused the siblings from meets and would not have had a parent sit through all of them.

      1. Situations like that are so common where the golden child gets all the resources and the black sheep must live as quiet and economical a life as possible or else face familial wrath.

    19. I never cared that my parents didn’t go to most of my theater performances or see the shows where I did production design. I did care that they were so critical of the arts in general and why I chose to do that kind of thing over something athletic as an extracurricular activity. I’m truly terrible at all sports except maybe skiing (also I can stay on the back of a horse for an above-average amount of time). It took a long time for them to accept and enjoy the performances and groups where I spent my time.

      Both of my teenage kids do things I’d have picked for them (e.g., acting class, classical dance), as well as things I wouldn’t have chosen (popular string instrument, cartoon club). I’m not going to pretend I love waking up uncaffeinated at Scout camp at 7am, but I will listen to them talk (and talk and talk) about what they are up to in their activities and be as supportive as I can be.

      1. OMG whyyyyy is there no coffee at camp?!? After the miserable first year of Girl Scout camp the parents brought a Keurig the second year.

        1. We stopped going to the Girl Scout campout with no coffee and picked a place to rent that has coffee available in the dining hall pretty much 24-7. I love it.

          There was one campout where there was a single carafe of coffee for like 70 adults and the leader-in-charge had the nerve to say, “well, *I’m* going to be a good girl and not have my coffee this morning.” Well, yay for you! Thankfully someone else stepped in to get coffee made for the group. It’s like, lady, I slept on a bunk bed in a room with 7 other people including 6 eight-year-olds, do not make this even harder for me!

      2. Yes. This. One of my parents was deeply critical of my hobbies as a kid/teenager, and it was really difficult for our relationship (and that critical dynamic was also present later for other aspects of my life with that parent).

        At least for me, it was about my parents showing (or not showing) basic human respect for me as a person with interestes and goals that may not line up with wha they’d have chosen – not about whether they showed up for the actual events or not.

  10. NYT tech workers are on strike and are asking people to stay off the games and cooking apps/pages. Anyone have alternative crossword or other word puzzle sites that they like? I need my lunchtime fix…

    2. My short time recommendations are Squaredle and Alphaguess, but for longer crosswords I suggest Sporcle website, and search for sunday crosswords.

  11. WWYD? Been dating someone for three years, he’s 40, I’m 34. I’m a widow; my husband died 6 years ago. Have a 5 year old son (doing the math, I was 9 weeks pregnant when my husband died). I’m ready for marriage; my SO is not. Reason being – my late husband’s mom (and dad by association) are what we will say “extra”. My MIL (would you still call her that?) still grieves like it’s the day after my husband died. Posts on FB nearly daily with something about grief, missing her son, how hard it is to grieve a child, etc. I have set some firm boundaries regarding my MIL over probably the last two years – they are my main source of local help for my son so I used to see them nearly daily. Now it’s more like once a week. At times, I feel my MIL treats my son as if she wishes he were her son, but again, the boundaries I have created and stuck to for the most part have been a good, healthy way of allowing her to love my son but also to give myself some sanity. However, my SO almost cannot stand my in-laws. He fears (rightly so) for the future…how my in-laws would treat my son, our future children, what do holidays and vacations look like, etc. I’m not sure I’m describing it correctly, but in short, he can’t figure out if he can live with it or not. Now, I’m in this place of “cut my losses” or “wait some more” – I’m not trying to downplay the greatness of the last three years, my SO is wonderful – great with me, loves my son, is exactly the type of man I want to marry and spend my life with. Anyone know anyone in a similar situation? I’ve been to therapy (hence the boundaries! And properly grieving!), but no one I know has lived what I’ve lived/am living so the advice from my circle (even widened) is hard to come by! Thanks in advance.

    1. I’m so sorry about your DH.
      I get that your MIL may be treating your son like her son, it’s all she has left.
      Just my opinion from an internet stranger, but I think you should move on from SO. The right SO for you will be willing to handle the ups and downs of the in-law situation, and if he’s not up for it, he’s not up for it. Comes as a package with you and your son.

      1. I mostly agree with this. Perhaps there is something missing from your explanation, but while extra, your MIL’s behavior does not sound mean or difficult. People grieve in different ways (e.g., maybe she’s found a community on FB). It’s not surprising that she loves spending time with your son as a connection to her own son, and I don’t think there’s really anything wrong with that – I think grandparents with living children also enjoy spending time with their grandkids because they remind them of their own children. She sounds like she is a loving and active engaged adult in your child’s life, based on the fact that you are considering ending this relationship vs. setting further boundaries with her.

        I will say that most of the points he is concerned about seem logistical – how do we handle vacations, how do we handle holidays. That seems like something you could reach some alignment on now. I know your situation is very different given that you are widowed, but your divorced friends would likely have good input on how to manage those types of logistical challenges.

        Re: how your in laws would treat future children, have you talked to them about it? They sound like they love you a lot and it may not really be an issue for them.

      3. Agree. When you love someone enough, their “baggage” is just something you’ll want to help them carry and it won’t be an issue. I don’t think he loved you enough, I’d cut my losses now.

        1. Same. 3 years is too much time to date and not marry. Esp for a 40 year old. Also those are pretty weak reasons. In my opinion.

          I don’t believe his heart is truly in this for you and your son.

    2. I think it’s time for two months of couples therapy with a clear goal towards discerning what it would take for him to be comfortable and whether that works for you, and if you cant reach a shared understanding, it’s an end. There’s no point in waiting longer.

    3. I’m sorry, but I don’t really buy that this guy is ready for marriage to you and your former in-laws are the only obstacle. They wouldn’t even be his in-laws! And it sounds like you’ve drawn very reasonable boundaries. A kid seeing local grandparents once a week is not at all excessive. Why does he even care about your former MIL’s facebook posts? They don’t need to be social media “friends” and if she’s added him, he can mute her. This shouldn’t impact his life. I really think there has to be more going on here.

      2. Agree. He is not ready and finding something to blame. He is saying he can live without you due to your mother-in-law? Does not compute.

    4. Oh, this sounds so difficult. And I have not been in your shoes, so I can’t give you my own experiences.

      But what strikes me here is that if you want to create a new family & life, you have to actually do that. It’s messy, of course, because your son already has grandparents. So my first thought is that you need more/extended boundaries with your MIL, not in terms of time spent with your son but in terms of her own emotional relationship to him and to you. Have you been able to talk to her about grief processing and therapy? What would it be like if you were direct, along the lines of, “I know you miss X. So do I. And you’re always going to be Son’s grandmother. But I’m with Y and we want to build a life, and we have to be able to do that together. How can we help you process your grief?”

      Maybe that’s not possible, or maybe it sounds trite. I don’t know — just throwing spaghetti at the wall here.

      Best of luck to you.

      1. Her boyfriend can have his own boundaries with his relationship to grandma, without imposing grief therapy onto grandma. Making grandma attend therapy or expecting grandma to behave a certain way to make him more comfortable with the idea of marrying her is not “setting a boundary.” It’s an excuse.

        1. This. It doesn’t sound like a grandma problem. I’ve navigated my husband’s ex and her family for the sake of my stepson. It’s what you do when you love someone. That’s the child’s family still.

    5. I am so sorry – both for your loss and for what I am about to say.

      Dump him. If he was seriously committed to a relationship with you, the fact that your five-year-old son has grandparents he sees once a week would not stop him. While your situation is obviously unique, people who come into relationships with children deal with this all the time (how (former) in-laws would treat the children, the impact on your children with a second spouse, what holidays and vacations look like, etc.).

      Someone who is delaying a commitment because of your late-husband’s parents’ involvement in their grandson’s life is not really committed.

      4. +1
        I’m coming at this as a divorced parent, but with a very involved co-parent. My new husband can’t stand by ex husband, but is polite and friendly and extremely respectful of the relationship and his place in our kid’s life. We see ex all the time at kid’s events, we handle holidays, etc. This was in no way a deal breaker or even hesitancy for him.

      5. Sorry, it’s not just local grandparents providing childcare. It’s local grandparents treating a SO like he’s there’s deceased son. I get why he’s weirded out! I’m not blaming OP, but I don’t think the bf is necessarily a bad guy.

        1. No, they’re treating their grandson (OP’s son) like he’s their son. Totally different. This shouldn’t affect the SO.

        2. This is my take. Also, my mother sometimes talks about my son as if he is her son, and… well, at least with her, that doesn’t occur in a vacuum. It is symptomatic of other, substantial problems.

    6. Personally, I think that it would be horribly cruel to both your son and your deceased husband’s parents to cut them out of your son’s life further, so if your boyfriend truly cannot stand them, then my advice would be to cut your losses now and break up with your boyfriend. Your kid is only seeing them once a week – if that is even too much for him, I just don’t see that there is a realistic way forward.

      1. It’s also the only connection your son has to his dad, who he never met. I cannot fathom a situation where I am the boyfriend her and think that I have any say at all in their involvement in my would-be-step son’s life. In my mind, they (with healthy boundaries and you doing all the right things, and you are! you’re doing the work!) are the price of admission to a relationship with you and your son, and he’s not willing to pay it.

    7. My scorching hot take: keep establishing boundaries with your in-laws (which might to be more firm than they are now), and also, move on from your SO.

      He’s 40. Three years is more than enough time for him to have either wanted to fish or cut bait. He hasn’t done either; he isn’t the one for you.

    9. Girl he’s 40. If he can’t set aside your former MIL’s FB posts, see that you’ve established a healthy boundary for yourself while seeing that it is in fact your child’s grandparent, and build a bridge and get over it by 3 years later… he’s showing you he won’t.

    10. Why is your SO concerned about holidays and vacations? Have you taken family vacations with your in laws? Do they come over for major holidays or is it strictly Facebook posts and help with child care once a week? I would absolutely not want to marry someone who’s in laws join holidays and vacations. If it’s just Facebook posts and weekly help with childcare, then I agree with every else. That’s just his excuse. Otherwise, you need to establish more firm boundaries because I think any SO would have an issue with in laws joining holidays and vacations.

      1. I think it is normal for local grandparents to want to see a grandchild on or around major holidays, especially when those grandparents are the grandchild’s only connection to his deceased father. I am not saying that the grandparents have to be intimately involved at every holiday, but I think it is unreasonable to expect that they will never see their grandchild for any holidays….

        1. Agree on this. Of course they want to share holidays with their family, and their grandson is their family. Even more understandable after their son died young.

        2. +1. Inviting them to birthday parties and Thanksgiving or December holidays is no big deal. But I think this guy is looking for an excuse not to marry you. You agreed their level of involvement was a problem, you established a reasonable frequency of visits, and have successfully enforced the boundary. All of this should be a green flag for him.

          Are your in laws pushing daily contact or involved in parenting decisions? Are you giving into manipulation tactics? Otherwise I don’t see how this is any different from a typical grandparent or ex husband situation. It wouldn’t scare off a guy who genuinely wants to marry you.

          1. I think saying inviting them to thanksgiving or December holidays is no big deal is not true in all cases. Families often have very different traditions and it’s hard to handle with just two families let alone adding in others. I would want to create my own traditions with my SO and navigate our parents expectations without additional parties getting a say. OP’s son can spend time with them or invite the in laws to his bday party but not necessarily holidays and definitely not vacations.

          3. It’s been 6 years. People do move on, remarry, live their lives and we should let them.

          4. People do move on and remarry, and I don’t see anything in OP’s post suggesting her in-laws are objecting to that? It’s beyond cruel to cut her child off from his grandparents who sound loving and helpful, because her potential new husband doesn’t like her MIL’s social media posts. These grandparents may be the only biological connection her child has to his late father!

        3. Yeah, I think it would be unspeakably cruel to both the son and the grandparents to cut them off from all holiday and birthday celebrations. If the guy is demanding that, he’s clearly not ready to be a step parent.

      2. Yeah, I also find SO’s concern understandable. I already struggle with spending time with my inlaws (two sets, as spouses’s parents are divorced and remarried). If there was yet another set of former inlaws and there was an expectation that I was going to have to include these people in all of my future holidays and vacations while knowing that they’re probably thinking that I replaced their son who should still be alive and married to OP and father to the grandchild, I can absolutely see why he’s having trouble committing. This is a tough situation! You shouldn’t cut the grandparents out of the child’s life, but there does need to be a reasonable way for you to move on to creating a new family and a new life.

        2. I agree. It sounds like this man already have a relationship with your son, and is expecting to parent him, barring intrusive grandparents? I’d hesitate to kick him out of your life if he’s good to your son and your son cares about him. Grandparents are important, but they are not everything. And ultimately they may not be in your son’s life forever. I’d weigh the pros and cons before doing anything drastic.

          I don’t hear you say what your son wants from this. Do you know? I don’t think marriage is dependent on his opinion, but I think its important and worth considering, especially since you say the last 3 years have been good.

          I have to say–no shade from me–but this totally sounds like many many romance novels I’ve read over the years. They end happily, with some communication and adjustments on both sides…maybe your story will too?

        3. It should be about the son’s needs though. And SO doesn’t sound like he’s putting that first. That’s a big red flag. I’m a stepparent. I don’t love that I’ve had to share birthdays and graduations and some holidays with my husband’s family and sometime’s even his ex’s family, especially when it conflicts with spending time with my own (they don’t live as close). But I also get that it’s about what’s best for my stepson. I’m the adult.

          He is telling you that the kid’s needs don’t come first. Believe him on this.

    11. Kudos to you for doing such a good job of managing to keep your in-laws connected to your son without letting your MIL’s grief intrude on your own life and sanity. You might find additional support and insights at Widow’s Fire https://widow-s-fire.mn.co/ . The woman who started it also became a widow while pregnant with their/her first child. The people on the site are wise, compassionate, and nonjudgmental.
      But you’ve also gotten good advice here about how ready your SO is, or is not. You may prefer not to gather additional information before you make a decision.
      Whatever you do, I wish you well and I hope that you and your son create a new, happy family either with your current SO or a new person. You deserve to have long-lasting happiness.

    12. He doesn’t want to date a single mom. He told himself it would be OK because you’re a widow so there’s no “other man” in the picture to worry about. But he thought he would get to be the only dad your child would ever know and he resents the fact that the child has a dad and dad’s side of the family. He’s using an engagement as a way to manipulate you to cut off your MIL. This is only the beginning. He will want you to basically erase your late husband. He’s just trying to trap you first. Don’t sleep with this man, this is the kind of man who will baby trap you.

        1. I get it, but there is something to wanting to erase the first husband. Lots of people want widows and widowers to do that when they end up in a relationship with them. That’s not uncommon. It’s not great either.

    13. Nope. If he wanted to marry you, he would, and your ILs would be a headache to roll your mutual eyes over.

      1. This. My FIL is one of the worst human beings I’ve ever met. It didn’t stop me from marrying my wonderful husband. If he wanted to marry you, he would and you’d work out boundaries with the in-laws. He doesn’t want to marry you.

    14. So, OP, I’m married to a man whose first wife died a few years before we met. They did not have children yet, so I realize that’s a bit different than your situation.

      Late wife’s mother used to call my husband / then boyfriend regularly, as well as sending him letters and emails. He basically had no social media because of things she would post on his “wall.” She sent one letter to him that I saw (he wasn’t hiding it from me) that said she was trying to be happy for him meeting and marrying me, but she couldn’t be. So obviously, I was stung by this but at some point I thought “of course she wishes her daughter were still here, and still married to my husband.” So I decided to get over it. This was between my husband and his former MIL. I stayed out of it.

      That’s what your SO needs to do. It’s not his business what kind of relationship you have with your former in-laws. Your son has grandparents who love him. You’re trying to set appropriate boundaries. That’s not up to him. That’s up to you.

      I kind of think “if he wanted to, he would” here. If he wanted to marry you, you’d be married.

      I think the cut your losses option is the right one.

    15. I agree with the consensus. You’ve done great work setting your boundaries, and it turns out that apparently wasn’t really the issue with SO after all because he’s still dragging his feet.

      I’m thinking of my own sweet husband, who cheerfully jumped into marriage with me despite a complicated family situation involving elderly parents and an ex-husband who ended up spending holidays at our house so we could all be together with our (grown) child. A person who really loves you and wants to be with you will take you as whatever package deal you come in.

      1. I agree with this take. I didn’t have your situation but I was with a guy for 4 years who was stringing me along about being ready for marriage. I had some good times but I also wish I had cut him loose earlier.

    16. Am I the only one tempted to call my lawyer and update my will after this conversation? I can’t imagine my daughter not being able to spend holidays with my parents if I died. When grandparents are local and interested in providing childcare, the grandparent-grandchild bond can be incredibly tight, almost like a third and fourth parent. It is for my kid, and sounds like it is for OP’s kid too. Both my daughter and my parents would be absolutely devastated about not getting to see each other on holidays, especially if it was added onto the grief of mourning me.

      1. Yes, it would be unspeakably cruel of OP to cut off her child’s grandparents, their only link to their late son, because her new spouse felt threatened by her relationship with them.

        1. Making some of my husband’s inheritance contingent on our child having continued access to my parents? I’m mostly kidding. I have no idea if such a provision would even be legally enforceable.
          But this conversation is really shocking and horrifying to me. I cannot imagine my daughter and parents losing me, being devastated, and then losing each other because my husband’s new GF didn’t approve of my mom’s Facebook posts. That would be so horrible for all 3 of them. I fully support my husband getting a new girlfriend if I die, I certainly don’t expect him to be celibate forever. But it’s really horrifying how many women are cool with cutting a child off from their loving grandparents in the interests of “building a new family.”

    17. I am so sorry about your loss. You should feel proud of the work you’ve done with your grieving and boundaries! Good for you. On the SO – leave him. The right one won’t hesitate, even if your MIL/FIL are difficult.

    18. This advice is coming from someone that’s been an observe to this dynamic. DH’s dad died when we were young (but together). We’ve been along the ride with his step mom dating (with a child not that much older than yours). One thing I will say is that her now-husband recognized that DH’s dad was always going to be a part of their relationship, if that makes sense at all. Like, he understands that no matter how much he’s stepped up over the years, there still is that moment where everyone (including his wife), wishes that the dad (not him) was the walking her down the isle. It’s a much different dynamic than an ex-husband or ex-boyfriend, because you are permanently living with the ghost of someone. So, having been through a few of her boyfriends before she found this guy, what I will say is that if your guy doesn’t get that, there is probably more going on here.

    19. I think others are being much too quick to say dtmfa. It is very hard to be a stepparent and I imagine even harder to do so because of death; and then harder still to have what sounds like a more than usual dynamic regarding the in laws. It’s hard to tell from what you posted but are your partners’s fears about how your former in laws might challenge the dynamic of a new family unit you are potentially building together founded? Is he treated poorly by them for example? Is he signing up for a lifetime of being enmeshed with them?

      These are real questions and him asking them doesn’t mean he doesn’t love you. One reason I eventually left my ex was because I was so tired of his kid’s mom and her parents (!) taking up so much mental space in my life. To have these people dominate so much, against my will. It is very very hard. Your boyfriend is not wrong to have questions and concerns.

    20. Honestly it sounds like he thinks you should treat your in-laws like an ex-boyfriends… but once kids are in the picture those in-laws are in your life forever! It’s a really immature take if he can’t see why. You’re doing a wonderful thing for your husband’s family and your son to keep them involved.

    21. So, my mom was a widow, and she married my stepfather when I was in 3rd grade. My father died when I was very young and I have no memories of him. My paternal grandparents were stoic Lutherans who would never openly discuss how much they missed my father, their son, so the dynamic was different. But I treasured immeasurably having a relationship with them and my extended family on that side. My stepfather happily came along to many a holiday celebration and beyond. You have to think about what’s right for your son. Not every situation is the same and the dynamic sounds different. But speaking as a child who grew up without her biological father, it was so important to me to maintain my ties to that side of the family. I have three sets of grandparents, and aunts and uncles, and cousins. It honestly makes me tear up sometimes thinking about how selfless everyone had to be for a child’s best interest to prevail.

    22. Hello, I wanted to post not because I have any real insight but because I am also a widow. I am five years out and not currently seeing anyone, but I have have one serious relationship that failed ultimately because my ex couldn’t really deal with my family situation (which was just that of being a widow with young children- no additional complications).

      I have to say that I don’t really understand what your boyfriend’s issue really is. Your mother in law certainly seems like a LOT, and perhaps grieving in some slightly unhealthy (but also not completely awful) ways, but I suppose I just don’t really see how it affects him. Or how it affects him THAT much. Lots of people have annoying reactions in laws, in different ways, and yours at least seem pretty helpful albeit irritating.

      I guess it just seems to me to be a strange thing for him to make a relationship dealbreaker. The boundaries you’ve already set seem like reasonable ones and also ones that should presumably result in him just not really having much to do with them…? I think you guys need to talk about this in a different way because something feels like it’s not connecting. Another point is that your relationship with your in laws will naturally change if you get remarried, and as your son grows older, just as it has changed over the last 3-4 years too. You boyfriend seems to be thinking that how it is now is how it will be forever, without much allowance for growth and change. I suppose that’s a bit of a big thing for him to take on faith but it also seems quite likely to me. So I do think you guys need to talk and try to get to the bottom of this more, like what actually does he want you to do here that would be good enough for him to be ok with marrying you. The answer – if he can answer – could be very helpful.

      I’m not sure I’m really saying anything different from anyone else but I wanted to reply in widow solidarity.

  12. How do I navigate this situation with my DHs family? A rambling post and possibly more of a vent than anything. I am an only child and was sort of oblivious to sibling dynamics and DH’s family has been a rude awakening. DH is the oldest of 3. His parents have always and continue to show favoritism to his younger brother, the baby of the family. They were hardest on DH and to this day, the common narrative in the family is that DH is irresponsible, his sister (middle child) is a whimsical hippie (she is a social worker and therapist and excellent at her job), and younger brother is the “good child” (on his feet now and doing great, but got into day trading for a while, lost all his money and lived with his parents, and then in a trailer, telling his parents and sister he was laid off from a job at the grocery store). My in laws are dismissive of my SIL, sort of wave the hand and say oh yea, she’s just into you know, some hoo hoo stuff. She was a massage therapist for a while and excellent at it and my FIL told us she was giving people happy endings for a living. Umm ok. Despite all this, my SIL is hellbent on family get togethers for all holidays. She just loves “family” she keeps telling me. DH tries to distance us sometimes. For example, we have opted out of 2 family vacations at his request. Unfortunately this gets him labeled as irresponsible for not “valuing family.” We did go on a few family vacations together over the years and they have been not without drama. In a couple, someone has cried because of callous comments from FIL, or there was a spousal disagreement that blew up, one time someone almost got arrested after drinking too much- how is this fun? The younger me had no idea what was going on, the older me sees a pretty dysfunctional family. My SIL keeps trying to get us together to do things and I just really want to distance us more. She insists that my kids should know their cousins, which I get- the cousins all get along, though they don’t have that much in common. The ages span from Kinder to 9th grade. I honestly think she’s been watching too much TikTok and sees all these videos of families doing fun things together… but this ain’t that. She called to make plans for Thanksgiving and I tried to remind her of all the past drama. She looks past all of it and just “thinks about the good times”. DH hasn’t been the best at setting boundaries with his family because they’re all so vocal about “family” and guilting him. Whenever there is a family event and we don’t go, they send photos on our group chat to try to show what we are missing, or the next time we get together they make a point of talking about the get together and how amazing it was and what a shame we couldn’t go. We opted out of Thanksgiving (at DHs request) and said we were having friends over from out of town, and now I’m not hearing the end of it about the big get together that will be happening without us and all the plans they are making.

    1. The TikTok thing is relevant – she wants a large, happy family, whether she gets that idea from social media or movies or friends families or whatever. If the cousins get a long is there a way for just you and SIL’s family to meet? It sounds like that would avoid some of the drama.

      1. I have a sister who constantly idealizes what it will be like to get everyone together. Our extended family is dysfunctional AF. So every time sister manages to get us all together for a Hallmark Moment that doesn’t happen, she handles her disappointment by being cranky and irritable and downright mean.

        I’m the no vote on 90% of her big family get together ideas. I figure the 10% of where she gets her way are some sort of mandatory family tax, so I will occasionally suck it up for that.

        I do love my sister so I put all of my efforts into seeing her one on one.

        Maybe you can do the same, OP. If you really like SIL on her own apart from family obligation, get together with her alone. Let your husband continue to make the decisions as to how often he wants to get together with his whole family.

    2. Let your DH take the lead on handling them. Ignore the guilt trips. The only situation in which you should be involved is if he’s pressuring you to spend more time with them than you’re comfortable with, and then that’s an issue for him and you to sort out, in couples therapy if need be. But it sounds like you’re on a similar page to DH so just let him handle it.

      1. Right answer, wrong scenario. This isn’t the “I’m an outsider” prompt; it’s the “my husband isn’t great about stepping up and this is bonkers, right?” prompt 😉

        Continue to tell them no at every opportunity. It does sound crazy. This internet stranger gives you permission to nope out of this insanity at every turn. Pick some number of activities per year (2? 4?) and go with that. And ignore any haranguing!

        1. It sounds like the DH is stepping up fine, actually. He told them no to Thanksgiving. OP just seems to feel really guilty about their comments, and I think she has to let go of that.

          1. It is awesome you recognize this! If DH is putting up boundaries, you need feel 0 guilt about following his lead. Let those attempted-guilty-inducing comments roll off your back, and just live your life!

    3. Sounds to me like you’re invested in what SIL and the in-laws are saying (that DH is irresponsible, that you don’t value family). Drop that part of it. You aren’t going to convince them to change their narrative.

      Do what you want. Let them send photos or guilt you or whatever. That’s their issue; don’t make it yours.

      1. Yeah, I think you need to drop the rope here. I suspect my in-laws grumble about us all the time (I work full-time and my child is neglected, we go to an actual doctor instead of a homeopathic “doctor”, my parents’ get more time with our son) but I’m not on the group chat, don’t have a lot of direct interaction, so I don’t know about it. If I think about what my husband was put through as a child, it makes me more argumentative/annoyed with them, so I try not to think about it, and focus my efforts on building a safe, stable, happy partnership and home for him and for our little family.

    4. Why are you engaged so much? You don’t have to get her to like your choices. Make them and move on. “Susie this isn’t a discussion”. “Staci as I keep telling you, we don’t do family vacations. Hope you have fun! Bye!”

      1. Yeah, you get to have the in-laws approve of you, OR you get to make your own plans that don’t include them. But I’m pretty sure you don’t get to have both. FWIW I think you’re making the right choice, so let go of your need for their approval.

    5. I have an uncle who values family above all else. He’s into big whole family holiday gatherings and coordinates cross country vacations that we just don’t want to go to. He gives me regular unsolicited advice to bury the hatchet with an estranged sibling who threatened extreme physical harm to me and my child. He will also drop everything and help in a crisis without hesitation because family.

      I’ve learned to smile, nod, and change the subject at his well-meaning but naive and misguided advice. I’ve also learned to say thanks but we can’t make it to this event, not offer reasons, and ask him to give Great Aunt Erma my love. He’s a gem of a person, but I also don’t have to go along with his every enthusiastic idea. It’s better if I just say no and don’t give an excuse, then carry on with a slightly more distant friendliness. I will listen to the plans, wish them a great time, and not let myself feel a lick of shame or guilt for not participating, and refuse to justify my absence. That’s what works for us.

      1. +1 to this whole approach with an added side of protect your children from all the truly dangerous dysfunction. We’re a combo of no/low contact with extended family on both sides because of physical abuse, verbal abuse, and drug/alcohol abuse. The grandparents desire for ‘happy family’ photos/stories does not trump my children’s need for safety and peace. We do family holidays either on our own terms (at our home where we can and do set strong boundaries) or attend family gatherings with an escape plan (we book our own hotel, always have our own vehicle, never take ‘free’ family vacations, and leave if the situation becomes unsafe).

    6. You won’t change their minds, so you can either just quietly do your own thing and brush off the whining, or end up stuck in a lot of unpleasant family time. As long as you and your husband are aligned on which one it is, carry on!

    7. IMHO I think some people need to control (other people’s behavior, how other people spend money…). I wonder, do people who want to control other people ever stop to think about how they could make life easier for other people, or is it always about them…

    8. I have a few thoughts, and will start by saying I cannot directly relate because my DH’s family has refused to meet me, so we just live separate lives, and he texts with his sisters occasionally. What stuck out to me: I did notice that you said your DH is not always great about setting boundaries with his family, but you also said you two have bowed out of certain family events (e.g., Thanksgiving) at DH’s request. That sounds like he’s maybe made more progress with boundaries than you may be giving him credit for. I know everyone always says this – but I think therapy for you or for both of you to discuss strategies for addressing this situation would be a huge help.

    9. Hmm… I have a different question. You spend most of the time talking about the dynamic that really stems from the parents. What about doing some kind of gathering that is siblings and family only (no parents). Or one on one with one of the sibling family groups? It’s not clear if those are relationships that could grows away from FIL’s dynamics. It will be easier if you’re in driving range versus flight range.

    10. No advice, just want to say they all sound so exhausting! Concur with the comments that suggest DH handle RSVPs.

  13. Help me think of a special 18th birthday gift for my daughter, who is a freshman in college far from home. I wish I could give her a trip and/or theater or concert tickets, but we have spent so much money getting her to college that another trip isn’t in the budget right now, and I can’t find any shows she would like that work with her schedule and transportation options. She’s asked us not to give her fancy jewelry, and she already has all the big “stuff” like a computer and a phone and luggage and headphones. I am planning to ship her cupcakes from her favorite bakery so she can celebrate with her friends at school. Any other ideas for a meaningful way to mark this special birthday?

      1. This made me laugh, thinking it was out of touch.

        But the best gift my parents gave me when I graduated college was they helped me open my first ROTH IRA at Fidelity and gave me $ to help fund it. I worked all through college so I had earned income that I used for books/living expenses, but would have had trouble funding an IRA myself. I was pretty clueless at the time but grateful for what I learned.

    2. hmm, a scrapbook of photos over the years? I did a mini cookbook of favorite recipes.

    3. Can you do a belated celebration, like the theater or a concert when she comes home for winter break? For milestone birthdays, I’ve never planned the “big” celebration to coincide with the actual birthday, because I usually want to travel and it’s hard to time a trip for the exact day. I think cupcakes for the day of + a belated bigger celebration would be perfect!

    4. A nice bag? A lot of my friends got a designer bag for their hs graduation/18th birthday. I’m not sure what’s in with kids that age nowadays, but I have a vague idea that less pricey (but high quality) designers like Staud are currently on trend. I think Coach might even be making a comeback in their leather goods (NOT logos).

    5. For an 18 year old (i’m guessing living in a dorm), cupcakes to celebrate with her friends is just about perfect. I’d suggest maybe paying for her friends to take her out to dinner, or sending her decorations to go with the cupcakes.

    7. This is definitely a ‘know you daughter’ sort of thing, but my parents once gifted me all my favorite things from the grocery store in one hilarious grocery run. Chocolate milk, a great baguette, favorite jar of pickles, a couple cans of spaghettios and rice a roni, etc. If it’s something that would land with you daughter, you can instacart it to her and tell her you’re sending over the comforts of raiding the family fridge.

    8. I know I’m late to the discussion, but for both of my girls’ 18th I made them photo books of our family and friends, with an emphasis on them, from their birth to present. Plus the usual cash.

    1. My ex was a consultant and traveled Sunday or Monday to Thursday or Friday. As our relationship progressed, I expected us to spend more time together when he was home, not just Friday night to Saturday afternoon. After over a year with no change, we broke up. If you actually want to make a relationship work with that lifestyle, the high travel partner has to make the SO a priority. Maybe spend Friday to Sunday morning with them or fly them out to whatever city you are in for the weekend. You have to put in the work. Also I think it’s important to discuss future arrangements. I didn’t want to be a single mom during the workweek so you need to get an idea of whether this travel lifestyle is permanent or you plan to change jobs if necessary in the future.

  15. I gave an internal presentation at work recently and received a lovely email full of wonderful feedback from someone who attended. I was the only one on the email. Would it be inappropriate to send the email to my supervisors?

    1. absolutely not! “Boss, thanks for the support on X presentation last week! Wanted to pass along some positive feedback. I was so glad to receive it.”

    3. This is a good question. I’m curious what others will say. I usually tuck emails like this in to my performance review folder. And then come performance review time, I attach it as a supporting document to my feedback for one of my goals or objectives for the year.

    4. It’s not inappropriate!
      General reminder: if you send kudos to someone, cc the supervisor if you know their name!

    5. Not inappropriate at all. I always send the not just a standard thank you but GREAT JOB emails and such to my boss. I am for sure my own advocate.

    6. As a manager, I love hearing great feedback about my team! I’m not always aware of every single thing they do, so knowing that their partner teams and stakeholders are happy makes me happy, and gives me more evidence for good performance ratings, stretch projects, etc. This is especially true if the work could be helpful to the rest of the team or other teams in the org.

      In sum, forward the note to your manager!

      1. I always always send it to my supervisor and put it in a “kudos” file that I consult at annual performance review time (or when I’m having a bad day).

  16. I posted over the weekend asking for recommendations on what to wear to a Kamala Harris rally. I ended up wearing suffragette white. Also, I thought y’all would like this story – it ended up being a first date for me! I matched with a guy on Hinge a few days before and our first date was supposed to be coffee/tea on Sunday. But when I told him I was going to the rally on Saturday, he was immediately interested and asked if there were any tickets left! I sent him the sign up link and the rest is history. During the rally, he was engaged, excited, and happy to be there. He also told me he voted early. It was such a great day and a first date I’ll always remember. I saw him again on Sunday and plan to see him again this weekend! He’s a sweetie so far! :)

      1. I have relatives who, uh, hooked up for the first time on election night 1974. It’s extended family lore in our very politically active family and all the kids heard the story at an inappropriately young age. This is a much more appropriate and heartwarming story for the grandkids!

    5. This is such a great story, thank you for sharing. It gives me hope amidst all of my anxiety about the election. I wish you and your sweetie all the best – keep us posted!

    8. in the spirit of Kamala, I wish you both well regardless of whether you eventually have children and / or grandchildren :)

  17. At 35, I should have this figured out and yet…I don’t. I have heavy periods and every month I end up feeling like a disgusting mess. I wear overnight super long pads 24/7 during that time and change them often, but I keep having leaks or they don’t stay situated in *just* the right place and I end up with blood all over my bedsheets or clothes. I am so tired of dealing with this and feeling so gross.

    Help!

      2. hard same.

        Just absolutely life changing – no pain, no weird hormonal ups and downs, no stained sheets / clothing.

    2. I find that leggings or snug fitting shorts over the underwear helps keep everything in place. Nothing that is uncomfortable to sleep in but just something that keeps you from bunching.

      1. I’m not OP, but I’m someone whose cousin had toxic shock syndrome and very nearly died. You’re not supposed to wear tampons overnight.

        1. The issue is length of wear not overnight. I rarely get 8 hrs of sleep so I’ll use a tampon on my heaviest night with the pad for back up. It’s once a cycle and less than 8 hrs so the increased risk is minimal at most.

        2. I had TSS and nearly died. I wear tampons overnight. It’s not about sleeping in them.

          1. That’s what my cousin did. Showed up at the emergency room after waking up sick and shaking and spiking a fever.

        3. a lot of people sleep 8 hours or less?

          I change mine when I get up to pee, and with a flow like the OP’s she might be most comfortable changing at least once during the night to avoid a super-full one in the morning anyway.

        4. She said she changes her overnight pad often so I presume she does not sleep through the night and could change tampon and pad at the same time.

      1. I could never get to grips with tampons but I love my menstrual disc. I swear it lightens my cramping, which might be pseudo science.

    5. Period panties were a huge boon to me. The whole thing is a pad so it doesn’t really matter if it moves around.

      But also have you advocated for yourself with your doctor? I’ve had heavy painful periods for years and doctors always hand waved me away. I’m going through fertility treatments and they found some endometrial polyps. I had a hysteroscopy and polypectomy like 6 weeks ago, so I’ve had one period since then, and omg so much better. I kept waiting for my “bad” day – the one where I’m curled up in pain and bleeding through a super tampon every hour – and it never came. Too early to tell if it was just an outlier, but if my periods continue to be ok then I’m going to want to strangle every OBGYN I’ve seen over the past 20 years.

      1. How were the polyps diagnosed? I’ve had terrible periods forever – severe cramping to the point of passing out, nausea, heavy bleeding – yet ultrasounds and blood tests keep coming back normal. Doctors have not been interested in checking anything else and I’m so frustrated I could scream.

    7. In no particular order:
      Talk to your doctor
      Get tested for anemia, which is caused by and exacerbates heavy periods
      Period panties
      Menstrual cup or disc
      Towel on the bed at night

      1. I don’t understand why cups are recommended for women with heavy periods. I can’t even imagine the disaster that would happen if it leaked.

        3. A cup was life changing for me. I still wore a backup pad at night, but the cup meant I could finally sleep through the night without waking up like an actor in a horror scene.

    8. Tampax Pearl Ultra tampons are the ONLY ones that work for me on the heaviest days of my flow. I pair mine WITH pads for double-duty protection. And, while my flow has gotten lighter as I get closer to my mid-30s, I had to wear 2 pairs of underwear most nights when I slept for much of life. Ultra tampons, plus a pad, plus 2 pairs of underwear should help significantly! Best of luck.

    9. Great recommendations thus far. Menstrual cups have been mentioned, but if those are uncomfortable for you (they made my cramps worse) menstrual discs are another similar option.

      1. I’m in the late stage of perimenopause and my doc prescribed the pill for my heavy periods. They lightened them considerably. I asked about skipping by not having the week break and I was advised not to do to that. The BC mad such a quality of life difference for me.

    13. I had lighter periods when I stopped eating processed foods & white/brown sugar & also I exercised a lot (running). This is just my experience.

    14. honestly this sounds like endometriosis and/or adenomyosis. have you been screened for fibroids and cysts?

    15. Been there….

      See your GYN. You need an exam. Consider hormonal birth control.
      Double up at night – Tampon + Pad or Cup + Pad.
      During my periods, I always doubled up with a Cup + Pad during the day too.
      I’ve never used period underwear, but I’d add that or a towel on the bed until you have a routine in place.

    16. Amethyst (continuous bcp) gets rid of periods for good, along with all other side effects of hormonal fluctuations, for me.

    17. Merula XL cup holds 50 ml. Two things: 1. It should last all night (that’s 2.5 OB Ultras) 2. having this measurement helped me finally have an informed conversation with my OBYN. She was like – you’re losing 250 ml of blood per day? This is compeltely abnormal and let’s do something. After all the tests came back fine she had two options: 1. Ibuprofen in crazy doses – 4 pills 3x day – as soon as your period starts or tranexamic acid in slightly less crazy doses. I tried ibuprofen, could not keep up with dosage, and switched to TA which was a huge help.

    18. Wear two pads overlapping.

      Try the mooncup.

      I hate hormonal bc and wouldn’t recommend unless you really want to.

  18. i find tampons pretty uncomfortable and don’t wear them much i do sleep in them with a pad. I just never seemed to avoid a mess otherwise.

  19. Any advice for a gal who just got her ears pierced for the first time at 34? Lobes only, so far no issues.

    1. I have ten piercings in my ears, and hands down the best and only advice I have: don’t touch them. It will be tempting when they start healing and feel scabby, but just don’t touch them. It takes sooo much longer to heal if you’re fussing with them and getting germy hands on them.

      1. I got my second piercings around age 55. The best advice I got was to stand in the shower and let warm water run over the piercings every day so that’s what I did. That’s all I did. Agree with keeping your hands off.

    2. Don’t change them out too early! (Dealing with DD’s right now because she could not resist Halloween danglies).

    3. Don’t take them out until they’re fully healed or the holes will close up. Ask me how I know!

    4. Make sure to twirl the earrings periodically in the holes so the skin doesn’t grow onto the posts.

      1. This is no longer recommended by piercers! I got mine pierced for the first time at 41 earlier this year, and my piercer was extremely clear that I must not do this because it lengthens the healing time and introduces bacteria to the area. Instead, I cleaned the area with saline spray that can in a special bottle where I didn’t have to use my hands.

        1. Yes, when I got my 3rd hole pierced the advice was to leave them alone as much as possible.

    5. Follow your piercers suggested cleaning guide. Saline spray is good initially but after the initial healing period, warm water in the shower should be plenty. Let the water run over the front and bacl for a couple minutes at the very emd of your shower.
      Keep it dry!!! Gently pat dry with a sterile guaze, especially the back or gently dry with a hair dryer. A wet piercing is unhappy.
      Dont touch it, twirl it, squeeze it.
      Dont pick off crusties.
      Goop soup is the technical term and is a normal part of healing. If you’re like me you might think its infected. Its not, you’ll know without a doubt if it is. Seriously, stop touching it girl. (it might be itchy and some gross drainage or swelling is possible.)
      Go to the check ins or downsize appointments. A too long earing post as you heal can cause more irritation and swelling and getting it shortened will help.

      oh. and stop touching it.

  20. y’all i got my covid shot and my flu shot yesterday and i am feeling them. so achy and sore and i just want a nap.

    1. Robust immune response! Congratulations! Hopefully you can find a way to take that nap.

    2. Sympathy. I react so strongly to the COVID vaccine that I’ve learned to schedule it on a Friday so I can take the weekend to recover. My immune system just freaks out!

      1. I haven’t had much reaction to any of them except the initial booster but it was bad for me this year.

      2. I had strong reactions to the first three or four shots/boosters, but the most recent booster in Septmber merely resulted in a bit of an achy arm and feeling blah. Yes, schedule it for a Friday if you anticipate a strong reaction, so you can rest up for 24 hours on Saturday, but don’t do what I did last year, which was postpone and postpone because I couldn’t find a convenient Friday/Saturday to get the booster and recover — and then I caught COViD and was VERY symptomatic for three solid weeks (seriously, had to sleep propped up in order to avoid drowning in my own continuous production of mucus, high fever, sore throat and coughing, etc.; and that was WITH almost immediate Paxlovid treatment). And after the symptoms subsided, I was fatigued and a bit coughy for an additional six weeks, so nine weeks total. I thought it would never end. And all because I decided it wasn’t “convenient” to get a booster shot. Learned my lesson — I’ll try to get the next booster on a Friday, but getting the booster whenever available is more important than timing it, as one day off from work is less inconvenient than nine weeks!

    3. So sorry, I get so sick from those things but it’s better than Covid. I’ve had that too.

    4. I had more side effects from this year’s Covid shot than I have for any dose other than the second original one. But if keeping up with the vax is what has caused my (multiple) bouts with Covid to be of the ‘moderate cold symptom’ variety, I’ll take it.

  21. what would you buy a child who’s already read a book numerous times and has affection for it — paperback so it’s easier to travel with or throw in his backpack — hardcover so it’s sturdier — or some special edition? this is for The Hobbit; he’s been reading my dad’s falling-apart paperback. (would it be cute to get them both the same edition? my dad is incredibly hard to buy for for holidays.)

    1. How old is the child? I wouldn’t get a keepsake edition for any kid who’s younger than about 8 because it will get too worn.

    3. I agree paperback – I have a very well loved copy of Anne of Green Gables and part of my affection for it is just how clear it is that I’ve read it a bunch of times and travelled with it, etc.

    4. As the owner of a much-loved and falling-apart paperback Lord of the Rings set . . . I know this seems like a slamdunk gift and it might be. But also, it might be pretty special to your kid and to your dad that they’re sharing this beloved, old, falling-apart book. I’d go slowly here. (But if you go ahead with it, I vote paperback.) If it were me, I would NOT want you replacing my copies. they mean something to me, even if they’re merely disintegrating books to you.

    6. Get him the paper book now, and then later, if he’s still into it, buy him the hard bound set of the entire LOTR series.

    7. If it’s just The Hobbit that here has read so far, the LOTR trilogy seems like the obvious next step.

    8. How about an annotated hardback copy? For something he’s already read and enjoyed a lot, an annotated copy would be like a “behind the scenes” kind of thing, and might not get re-read as often, but would still feel special.

    9. I know this!
      Get The Hobbit — paperback version as illustrated by Michael Hague. Available on A–n and I special ordered it from our local bookstore.
      It’s the best paperback version — it’s 10×7.8 (which is great for read aloud) and the illustrations are full color and amazing.

    10. There’s an entire shelf of other Tolkien books at Barnes & Noble, many of them gorgeously bound and illustrated. In addition to whatever version of The Hobbit you go with, I would start adding other stories to the mix.

    11. Same edition and get each of them to write inside the cover what the book means to them would be super cute imo (I am a sentimental person).

    12. Thanks all! He’s 13 and was asking if we had a copy that wasn’t falling apart, I’m pretty sure he’s read all of the LOTR books too. I think the hobbit is just one of his comfort reads.

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