Coffee Break: Zephyr Cashmere Scarf
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Sales of note for 1/31/25:
- Ann Taylor – Suiting Event – 30% off suiting + 30% off tops
- Nordstrom – Cashmere on sale; AllSaints, Free People, Nike, Tory Burch, and Vince up to 60%; beauty deals up to 25% off
- Banana Republic Factory – 50% off everything + extra 20 off your $100+ purchase
- Boden – 15% off new season styles
- Eloquii – 60% off 100s of styles
- J.Crew – Up to 40% off winter layers
- J.Crew Factory – 50% off sweaters and pants
- Rothy's – Final Few: Up to 40% off last-chance styles
- Spanx – Lots of workwear on sale, some up to 70% off
- Talbots – End of season clearance, extra 70% off markdown tops + extra 60% off all other markdowns
And some of our latest threadjacks here at Corporette (reader questions and commentary) — see more here!
Some of our latest threadjacks include:
- My workload is vastly exceeding my capability — what should I do?
- Why is there generational resentment regarding housing? (See also)
- What colors should I wear with a deep green sweater dress?
- How do you celebrate milestone birthdays?
- How do you account for one-time expenses in your monthly budget?
- If I'm just starting to feel sick from the flu, do I want Tamilfu?
Huge trigger warning for child abuse/sexual assault content.
When I was growing up, my cousin sexually abused me. A friend’s mother helped me when I was 15 and he got kicked out of the house by my dad (single parent, my mom died when I was little). My dad’s side of the family was in India (my cousin is my father’s nephew) and I never told them what happened because it was so hard and I didn’t know if they would take my side. So I just cut them off. I felt horrible about it, there were people on that side who loved me and I didn’t give them a chance. I got back in touch with one relative (let’s call him Bob) from that side on Facebook a few years ago and we have been cordial. I told him my cousin and I had a falling out, but not that he molested me. My father has been pretty awful – he wants to have both me and my cousin in his life, just separately. I do think he believes me, he just is the world’s biggest pathetic coward. Bob called me last night to wish me a happy birthday and he let slip that there’s a big family reunion coming up. I said that I would like to go and asked if my cousin is going. Turns out, not only is my cousin going, my dad is coordinating the whole thing and didn’t invite me. FML. I don’t know why I’m telling you guys this. I’m just so tired of this stupid secret and I wish I could text Bob and just tell him the truth. Thanks for listening.
I am so sorry. It’s not fair. It’s awful to feel like you can’t depend on a parent. My mom continues to be on friendly terms with someone in our family who did something truly awful to me [but not as bad] and I can’t tell you how much it hurts. My dad stopped talking to the family member. Since my dad has passed, I miss that loyalty more than words can say. I suspect your dad wasn’t saying anything because he knew he couldn’t prevent the cousin from coming. But he still should have told you. It should have been your choice on whether or not you wanted to go given the likelihood of facing the cousin. What you choose to tell Bob or when is under your control. But just know that some folks are hard wired to “get along” with family even when confronted with ugliness. My mom to this day will try to tell me about the latest accomplishments or goings on with this family member and his kids. It’s like she wants to pretend everything is normal. From the other side of things now, I have to say that sometimes not knowing how deep loyalty lies is better than knowing. But it hurts regardless.
I’m sorry this happened to you. It isn’t fair and it sucks. And I wish our culture were better about actually believing people.
A huge hug to you.
Something vaguely similar happened in my family. It rips me to pieces, but it’s not worth dealing with their dysfunction.
I am so sorry you’re dealing with this. I have no advice, other than it might be helpful to speak to a professional about whether keeping the secret is hurting you and whether disclosing it would be of benefit to you. I wish I were there to give your father a piece of my mind.
Yes, hugs! I hope you can put this schmoe out of your mind long enough to realize that the rest of your family is important, so even if your dad is a wimpy schmoe and won’t face reality, do not fret. He is your dad and that is all that matters. I know my Dad does whatever he can for me, but I cannot imagine how he would deal with this. Fortunately, I was never in such a predicament and hope never to be. In your case, live your life as you have, but always be wary of relatives that want to be alone with younger children of the opposite $ex, b/c many times, you never know their motivations. A big FOOEY on them if they take advantage of little kids like you!
I am so sorry you are in this. It sounds really terrible and I would be so hurt in your shoes. It won’t fix it or make the hurt go away but is there someone in your life that you could lean on as a surrogate parent? I had someone in my life when I was having a hard time with my mom (over truely piddly things compared to this) and it was immensely helpful.
I’m so sorry, hugs. First off, you lost your mother at a time when you were young and needed her most. Second, you had a cousin who lived in your house and abused you?! Wow, that’s beyond the pale. I’m so glad your friend’s mother helped you. I hope I can be her to any of my kids’ (now little) future friends. And third, your father is a coward. I know the type, my father will not stand up to his family either and avoids confrontation.
If I were you, I would find the member of the family you are most comfortable with (I would think a woman would understand – maybe an aunt or grandma?) and start to rebuild a relationship with them. At some point if it comes up why you didn’t attend the reunion, you can mention it. I hope you find peace. I will buy you a drink if you are in the Bay Area.
Have any of you stayed with a professional service provider’s successor after your primary contact retired? What made you stay (or go somewhere else)? I’m preparing to take over a book of business in a particular practice area (30 lawyer firm, but this is the only lawyer devoted to Desk Practice Area ABC). Trying to figure out best strategy for retaining clients. I’ve got about a year to plan, and am slowly getting introduced to clients, but I know others in the market will start trying to get partner’s clients when retirement date is announced.
I’m a lawyer, not the client, but I think you need to start with figuring out why each client you’re “inheriting” is using your firm or partner. Is it a personal relationship? If so, between who? Tradition? Specific expertise in a particular area?
We had a senior professional retire from our practice and someone significantly younger but with comparable experience joined and it was interesting to see how many clients were lost in the process.
In the end there were a lot of issues with promises and guarantees the retiring lawyer made that the replacement lawyer thought were impossible. They had very different personalities and styles.
Good luck to you!
I am in the position of assigning work to outside counsel. When one of our trusted attorneys retires, we decide matter by matter whether to leave the work where it is or move it, and whether to send new work to the firm. If the retiring partner hasn’t made a major effort to ensure that the remaining lawyer or lawyers have demonstrated the skills that we need, we move the work. I would never assume that work would just be ‘inherited.”
To answer your question about strategy, I’d make every effort to ensure that the retiring partner is allowing you do the work and sign your name to it, even if retiring partner is overseeing. It isn’t enough that you’re a good second-in-command. You need to be able to show you’re capable of making the recommendations/executing the transactions/trying the cases or whatever the “end” is.
At my former firm, we had the most success when retiring partners scaled back over time and — this is key– where the retiring partner’s comp was tied to measurable benchmarks for transitioning the work. This ship may have sailed for you, but consider whether it’s something you can try to implement or if the retiring partner would be willing to go to a reduced hours Of Counsel role for some period of time after the currently planned retirement date. (Note that this is NOT always smooth and may not be appropriate for your practice or firm culture.)
As for your actual question: I think your strategy is going to largely depend on the nature of your practice. Are you a regulatory expert? Doing transactions or handling litigation? My experience now, as in-house counsel choosing outside counsel for regulatory or tax advice and overflow support for commercial work, is that I pick my firm based on the lawyer handling the work not the firm itself. In my situation, I would be more inclined to stay with a firm if the retiring partner involved the successor in actual work product rather than a lunch time meet and greet. (Obviously, I wouldn’t be thrilled if this involved double billing — my company shouldn’t have to pay for your succession planning.) If you’re trying to retain clients like me, I think the best thing you can do is step up your own marketing around your expertise – for example, write client alerts and having the retiring partner send them to clients so they associate your name with the area. Offer to do lunch and learns about new legal developments for clients that have a legal department or think about hosting a webinar if your clients are far flung.
The advantage of stepping up your own marketing is you may bring in other new clients. So much of the success of a client “hand over” is the willingness of the retiring partner to step back and allow the successor to shine, and that’s largely out of your hands.
If you were going to splurge on a classic black bag, what would it be? It will primarily be used for walking around the city (read: cross-body capable if possible, not a big tote and not for work/laptop). I have a Celine nano belt bag that I love in a light neutral color, so something along those lines is what I’m looking for.
Depends on your budget, but I think the Hermes Evelyne is a very functional, classic cross body style. I also think Mansur Gavriel does some of the loveliest classic bags available for the quality/price.
For super fun color combos I am partial to the strathberry bags.
I have a great vegan cheesecake recipe that I bring to events for anyone who can’t eat the other desserts (not just vegans, anyone with an egg allergy etc). I use premade vegan chocolate chip cookies for the crust and everything else I make myself. I always provide the recipe so people can decide if they want to eat it (it’s always entirely eaten).
Someone basically implied that this is “cheating” and defeats the point of bringing food you’ve baked yourself. (This is not a competition or something, just a workplace kind of thing). I don’t care terribly but I did put time and effort into my dish and it’s definitely one step more than just bringing the box of vegan cookies.
Haha, Next time I might just bring nothing.
That someone was rude
Major eyeroll. Am I supposed to make my own graham crackers for my (not vegan) cheesecake crust? What about oreo crusts? Crushing up premade cookies/graham crackers is pretty standard for cheesecakes.
+1! This is exactly what I thought as well.
Yeah I’m a bit of a snob when it comes to baked goods, but a cheesecake crust is normal crushed up store-bought cookies. You didn’t cheat at all!
By the way, OP not sure if you know this but Oreos are vegan. Probably a lot cheaper than whatever vegan cookies you were buying and they make an amazing crust!
I’m so confused. What is cheating? Not baking the cookie crust yourself? I… have never made a crust. I don’t think anyone would say that my pumpkin pie isn’t homemade just because I use a pre-made roll out crust.
I mean, I do make my own pie crust from scratch when I’m baking for Thanksgiving, but I take pride in it because I know it’s hard and not everyone is able to do it, I would not accuse someone of “cheating” just because they didn’t put the same skill or effort into their food, because they still did something! If you’re making a pie with a pre-made roll-out, you’re still baking the filling, and determining the temperature and bake time, yeah?
But I’ve never made cheesecake, and if I ever do take on such a task, I’m probably going to crush up store-bought cookies. Even the contestants on Master Chef crush premade cookies when they make cheesecake, you still have to add stuff to the crushed-up cookies to make it into a crush, don’t you? Actually I have no idea, and it doesn’t matter. Eat the cheesecake or don’t, but don’t be snarky about how much effort went into it.
Wait, what’s cheating, using premade cookies or providing the recipe? Either way, rude. When I go to potlucks and friendsgivings, we’re often asked to provide the ingredients list so people with food allergies and aversions can navigate the food choices successfully. And honestly, using premade cookies for the crust sounds perfectly fine, you’re still putting a fair amount of effort into it, and who in this day and age expects everyone to bring dishes that are 100% made from scratch anyway? If someone brings delicious food to a party, just enjoy it and be thankful they went to the trouble.
The complaint was about using store bought cookies for the base haha. If I make cookies (which I do every week) my kid wants to eat them so there’s no way they’re becoming pie base.
I always provide a recipe because people generally want to know what they’re eating. Plus I am always upfront about vegan stuff. I mean, I’m not going to bake the cake and tell people after they’ve eaten it that it’s vegan as like a gotcha moment. There are people who will basically refuse to eat it because of the tofu and it’s fine.
Don’t run your life by rude people. Everyone else appreciates what you’re doing.
+1 You gotta learn to let those things roll off your back.
That someone is just terribly immature. They’ll feel bad about it eventually when they have to go to a potluck and also care for a child or an aging parent. In the meantime, move on.
I think the fact that it’s always entirely eaten says all you need to know–people appreciate what you’re bringing.
If you don’t mind posting the recipe here, I’d love to have it. I am not vegan but love baking and enjoy finding good recipes that allow me to be inclusive.
I’m not going to pretend this is as good as a really good “normal” cheesecake but it is pretty solid for non dairy. I started making this to accommodate egg allergies and I modify it for nut allergies. I find that kids really like it (I just tell them it is peanut butter chocolate cake). It’s also an instant pot recipe. So that rocks. Stolen from Coco Morante with slight changes.
Crust
4 ounces vegan chocolate cookies (cooled if fresh baked)
1 tablespoon coconut oil melted and cooled
Filling
3 tablespoons egg replacer powder
1/3 cup water
14 ounce (one block) firm tofu (drained)
1/2 cup your choice of peanut butter I suggest smooth
1/4 cup coconut oil melted and cooled
1/2 cup sugar
1/4 cup cocoa powder
1 teaspoon instant coffee
1/2 teaspoon sea salt
Line base of pan with parchment paper, grease edges
To make crust- food processor the cookies into crumbs, add coconut oil. Mix until it looks like wet sand. Transfer to the pan and press firmly so you have a bottom layer and 1/2 inch up the sides of the pan. Put in freezer. Clean food processor.
Mix egg replace and water in a bowl until it is not lumpy.
Break tofu into 1 inch chunks and put in food processor. Add peanut butter, coconut oil, sugar, cocoa powder, coffee and salt. Mix for one minute. Add bowl of egg water and process until smooth.
Put filling into the crust. Even it out and pat it to remove air bubbles. Cover with foil.
Put 1 1/2 cups of water into the Instant Pot. Seal, select cake, manual and 40 on high pressure. Let pressure release naturally for ten minutes.
Make a ganache or use vegan icing and enjoy.
Just bring the box of vegan cookies.
Is it cheating to not churn your own butter?
Or milk your own cow, for that matter? How farm to table are we talking here?
Well milk would be cheating for vegan cheesecake XD
Mill that wheat, honey, otherwise you’re a fraud
Cue all the Ina Garten “If you don’t have time to travel to Madagascar and pick your own vanilla beans, storebought is fine” memes.
My go to response in these types of situations is “hmmmm interesting…” followed by a slight head tilt, silence, and good solid eye contact. And letting that silence settle in…
The person who made this comment is not worth either your time or your cheesecake.
Ha, I would love to encounter this person– my battle cry at all food-bringing events is “I don’t cook.” And I don’t. I don’t cook for office potluck, I don’t cook for family get-togethers… I don’t cook. There are professionals who cook food for a living. I buy that food and bring it to parties. The end. (No shade at all to people who do like to cook– wonderful for them! But I don’t like it, so I don’t do it.)
Personally I would always rather just get something from a professional kitchen than from someone’s questionably clean kitchen that their toddler might have helped bake while picking their nose XD
That sounds like a bitter jealous person. Cheating is bringing a bag of Chips A’hoy cookies and saying you slaved over your grandmother’s chocolate chip recipe all night. Laugh it off.
That person is rude, who has time to make cookies for a crust then crush them? That is plain stupid.
someone in the morning thread mentioned a scandal in Lake County Illinois in which parents are giving up guardianship of their kids so that they do not legally have to include their parents’ information on their FAFSA, thus making them eligible for financial aid. i personally had not heard about this scandal, but just read an article about it and it is kind of interesting to think about since it does not violate the letter of the law, but definitely violates the spirit of the law. if the legal standard for granting guardianship is whether it is in the best interest of the child and i mean it definitely is in the best interests not to have a lot of student loans… one example given in an article i read was about a student whose parents are going through a divorce and are unable to help him with tuition, but earn too much to qualify for financial aid and this student hopes to become a doctor. i work in a higher ed adjacent field and while i think this is manipulating system, i also interact with a lot of students who exemplify the plight of the middle class – their parents earn too much for them to qualify for financial aid, but their parents don’t have enough funds to pay, so they work multiple jobs, cannot get some of the on-campus jobs, including those that involve research because they don’t qualify for work study, don’t qualify for stipends for summer internships…but can’t afford to take an unpaid internship, so end up being able to take advantage of fewer of the opportunities than some of the lower income students can
Why do we even use FAFSA as a gauge for determining financial aid? Some parents have no intention of paying for college, so what does it matter their income? And there are always scenarios like what you describe above. My parents worked multiple jobs to help put me through college, and I still ended up with $40k in student loans.
Because otherwise rich kids and poor kids would get the same grant money. Are you really this stupid? If not paying for college were as easy as saying “I’m not paying” no parent would.
Rich kids already get $, we just call it “merit aid.”
Yes — ask Lori Laughlin. This would make some paying parents get an edge and I’d definitely volunteer to pay tuition if it would help get my kid in (just pay tuition, not bribe people and photoshop my kids into pictures).
It does help, just at less prestigious schools than the ones in Varsity Blues.
Actually, it is an unfortunate reality that parents can and do say “I’m not paying” and leave their kids entirely unprepared & completely left to their own devices. It … must be nice … to be unaware of this.
Get off your high horse.
No one really *wants* to pay for college. The system is set up to be mandatory and not discretionary because “pay what you want” would sink the system.
Wow. All I’m saying is there has to be a better method. No need to be rude.
There is no way to separate out the kids who’s parents could help but truly refuse to from the kids who’s parents will help but will lie that they refuse if it means that it costs less and the kids who’s parents could help but won’t if the school will then provide more need. Sometimes, who have to create a system that gets the right answer 90% of the time because there is no way to create a perfect system.
I think that colleges should have a clue — if the parents are divorced, it is likely that they CAN’T pay, but if they can and WON’T, then you should give the kid a break. Most people who can pay will pay, so if they refuse, believe them.
I find it very naïve to think that most parents wouldn’t refuse to pay if there was a system to provide students with financial aid based on the fact that their parents say they won’t pay. I consider myself a generally good person, and I would refuse to pay if refusing meant that my kid got aid. That’s just human nature. Why would I want to pay for something I can get for free?
I think you pay b/c people are not that dumb — schools start letting in those who can pay and hoard aid for people who look the poorest (checking high school zip, free/reduced lunch %s, home zip) first.
You might not want to pay for college, but if you have the means, you are not going to live in a poor area or let your kid to go a bad school. In my city, you can tell by my kids’ school and my zip that I am better off than 90% of the people in it. I think people give those kids aid first. But my single-mom neighbor living above someone’s garage so her kid can go to a better school shouldn’t be penalized and that kid has a valid story to tell (to any decent college that will listen).
If your kid goes to Country Day and you aren’t filling out a FAFSA showing poverty, I think they are smart enough to figure out that the $ didn’t vanish over night. They send you a bill for the full freight and if you don’t pay, your kid doesn’t go.
I am just so surprised that schools aren’t smart enough to handle a typical situation: parents are divorced and dad has $ but won’t pay. I see it every damn day.
This. My parents paid nothing & refused to provide their financial information for the form, effectively cutting me off from financial aid until I aged out of the parental info requirement — which was 26. Years. Old. When I’d been living independently of them since mid-teens.
Yep, I had to jump through so many hoops to prove myself independent in the eyes of the university when I was 22 and had just gotten out of the armed forces. My parents hadn’t provided financial support since my teens. Got through all that, they decided I was independent but then my income as an e-4 was too much to qualify me for need-based aid. This was before the post-9-11 GI bill, so that came nowhere NEAR covering tuition, fees and cost of living. Also, the community college credits I took while in the service made me a “transfer” student which disqualified me for any merit aid. Worked 2 jobs, didn’t sleep for 4 years but finished a degree, though not the more rigorous one I’d hoped to. Still salty about all that 20 years on.
That would burn me up, too. I hope you never gave them another dime.
LOL, I work there now, and I think I’m finally at the point where I’ve been paid more than I’ve paid them… but the Foundation can bite me. I somewhat pride myself in being the bureaucratic PITA who forces departments to do their damn jobs and do right by the folks who NEED the money, not just the tippy-top faculty rainmakers.
That’s a good point. My BIL left my sister and their kids and won’t pay for their college. At all. He makes bank though.
I don’t life in this area, but this is where they should transfer guardianship to me (I live in a state with more college options, just to get them in-state status for admission and tuition cost) and let them finish high school where I live. Otherwise, these kids will have to work PT just to go to community college and maybe finish in 7-8 years. They didn’t pick their parents or their financial situation. It seems really unfair.
I’m assuming that your sister is divorced. Deadbeat divorced parents are common enough that they have solved that issue. There is a place on the FIFSA to explain that although your non-custodial parent is alive, you have no contact with them and they provide no financial support for your family. Or at least there was 10-15 years ago, when I was in college. I think we just had to sign verifying that all statements were true. But it’s possible we had to provide supporting documents, which would have been easy for us to do since my mom had taken my dad to court 5+ times trying to get child support.
They are divorced. And the kids are f*cked.
Yes, but you can’t use that “out” if the noncustodial parent paid child support- even if that support ends at age 18 and is therefore not available for college and even if they pay support via the state but you have no other information about them.
HAHAHA my dad has 5 more kids younger than my younger sister to take care of, so even though his support for us ended at 18, he is done paying for us. And he fought my mom to lower her support all along the way. I can send any school the court paperwork but I guess they don’t care?
I PROMISE TO REMEMBER THIS WHEN THEY COME ASKING FOR ALUMNI DONATIONS. And I won’t forget b/c I remember every time I pay my student loans.
I don’t see why you can’t use that out. If they paid via the state (i.e. the state garnished wages), you explain that you have no relationship with the person and the divorce agreement does not provide for any support after age 18 and that you have no access to his financial information. I would be shocked if colleges don’t accept that.
OMG — dads pay child support b/c if they don’t, they can lose their professional licenses and even go to jail. They don’t HAVE to pay for college (NJ support orders aside).
I get the feeling that college aid administrators must live in the 1950s where no one is divorced and no one has ever been to child support court.
This happened to my husband. His dad left the family when my husband was 3 for another woman. My FIL paid child support…sometimes, and it was pretty minimal. But it was enough that he was able to declare my husband as a dependent on his taxes all the way through college, and because he made a lot of money – none of which was given to my husband for college – my husband qualified for basically no aid, even though his mom (who was his custodial parent and main financial support) was a teacher in a rural school district and made almost nothing. My husband had to drop out of school twice, over a year each time, to make enough money to afford to go back. He eventually got a bachelor’s and master’s, but wasn’t terribly interested when his dad came back around periodically wanting a “better relationship.” My FIL died in an accident years ago but believe me, if he had lived into decrepit old age? We would have put him in the nicest nursing home we could have afforded with whatever assets *he* had, and walked away.
I think it’s a scam and private colleges who use the CSS won’t let them get away with this.
What does CSS do if your parents are divorced. Do they look at the custodial parent (often the mom, who makes less) or the other parent (often dad, who makes more)? What do they do when either or both parents can but won’t pay for college?
Sincerely asking and I have no idea. I went to state U and worked back when college was a lot cheaper.
Nobody cares if a parent “won’t” pay for college. CSS requires info from all parents – both custodial and noncustodial AND stepparents.
The FAFSA also requires the income information of a stepparent married to the custodial parent and uses it to calculate the expected contribution even though the stepparent has no legal obligation to pay for the kid’s college.
Yeesh — do noncustodial hostil parents and step parents actually provide this info??? And if they refuse, is the kid just screwed? [Or are aid people actual people who get that this is a thing?]
I know so many divorced people who refuse to provide $ info b/c they are afraid it will be used to get more $$$ for child support for younger children they pay support for.
You should never marry someone with kids then — even a prenup < CSS I guess.
Do you have a point in all this?
Almost all universities have a limited amount of financial aid available. If they give six figures (over four years) of aid to a kid whose parents gamed the system, that money isn’t available for a kid whose parents played by the rules.
There are plenty of options out there for students who don’t want to spend $200k on undergrad. If they are really so super-amazingly smart, there’s merit aid. Many schools are simply inexpensive to begin with – one near me costs $15k a year, all in. I think education is wildly overpriced and the entire pricing system is corrupt beyond belief, but I also know kids who live at home, work all day, and commute 40 miles each way to college at night and take six years to graduate.
Elite colleges do not provide merit aid.
true, but these kids were not gaming the system to get aid at Yale. They were gaming the system to get aid at state colleges in the midwest
If you’re good enough to get into Harvard, it’s free if your family earns below a certain threshold and 10% of family income up to $180k a year.
If you’re good enough to get into a school that doesn’t offer merit aid, you’re going to get merit aid elsewhere. Thus, this is about getting an education at a “dream” school, not getting an education, period.
Well, you can go to state U for free tuition, but room and board can run around $7K/semester at our LCOL state state U. Maybe 10K/semester at Flagship State U or the more urban State U. So 14-20K/year in room and board * 4 years = significant student loans just for that, even for a “free” school.
I worked as an RA, but that was just for 3 years. Some kids can’t get the credits to finish in 4 years, so the debt continues to pile up.
Yes, but that is true for poor kids too. Most schools don’t give out scholarships to cover living expenses, just tuition and fees. Even though my family had a HHI of $20k when I was in college, I got nothing but student loans for living expenses.
It doesn’t cost $15k a year in room and board (for nine months) in a lcol area. Sorry.
If it does, live off campus.
The very very top tier doesn’t, but there are a lot of non-Ivy elite schools that do. I had significant merit aid at Johns Hopkins, Wash U, NYU, etc.
LOL what 4 year university costs $15k per year all in?
Both universities in our state cost about this, if you are a resident. Tuition is cheap comparatively. Dorm costs add up and other fees, but actual tuition is low.
Purdue costs about that much for in-state kids. Tuition is $10k and the cost of living there is really low. Most state schools are more than that, but not WAY more.
There are a lot of state schools that cost between $15k and $20k a year for in-state students. It’s generally not the flagship school and they states are in the Midwest (and maybe in the South, not sure), but it is possible.
And the 15-20k figures include living expenses. Tuition and fees are often under $10k, so it would be even cheaper if you could live at home.
Even flagship schools are sometimes under $20k. UW-Madison is only $10k tuition for residents and I’m sure you could live in Madison for under $10k/year.
Right, so when the kid is 3 or 4 and daycare is cheap, throw a few thousand dollars a year into a 529. Over the course of the next 20 years, you’ll have paid for college – might need to take on a small loan that can be paid off shortly after graduation.
Sorry, I LOLed at ‘daycare is cheap’.
Unless we make college free in the US, the simply truth is that there is a limited pool of funds that have to be given out to students. Currently, those funds are given out in two ways: (1) merit aid and (2) need-based aid. Does it suck for the kids who parents could pay for college but choose not to help? Yes, it does. Does that mean we should take away the financial aid from students from poor families (which is what we are really talking about, since the aid pool isn’t going to increase)? No, we should be doing everything possible to help those students.
I’m not really sure what you are looking for here.
IDK but if your parents are divorced, often the $ parent just refuses to pay. They get angry at their first family (esp. if they marry again) and feel that they have paid enough. They take it out on their kids by refusing to pay for college (other parents just don’t have the $ to maintain two households and have any $ left over for school) b/c they come to see their $ as theirs alone with no legal obligation to spend it (which is true, but less of a problem than when your parents are married).
If you have divorced parents, there should be a checkbox for “Dad is rich but won’t pay.” This affects a LOT of people. We might as well be destitute (my mom made $11 an hour when my parents divorced since she had been a SAHM for 15 years until my youngest sister went to K). Dad remarried and all of his $ went to his new family.
Child support agreements should handle this, not colleges who are trying stretch limited funds and want to accept students who don’t have any rich parents.
IIRC, states can’t mandate that a divorced parent pay for college except in New Jersey (everything is legal in New Jersey!).
So a parent divorces his kids, effectively. And the colleges don’t care. The kids won’t even inherit anything (new spouse will take it all), so they are just as poor for paying for college as a kid who has poor parents. It is not the kid’s fault and colleges don’t care.
In most states, it’s discretionary.
My suggestion is that if you’re the child of divorced parents who got screwed in the college process because a parent refused to pay (or even fill out the fafsa), then you are a fantastic “face” for a legislative change.
Many (most) schools figured this out years ago. That was my situation – Dad had money, refused to pay child support, and I didn’t see him. I explained that on the FIFSA that I had no relationship with my so-called dad, and he would be providing no money. All the colleges I applied to accepted that, and calculated my financial aid based on my mom’s $25k HHI.
I don’t think it was as easy as a check-box, but there is a space to provide additional info and I clearly hadn’t provide any of my dad’s info since I didn’t know it.
But you’re missing the huge number of kids for whom dad paid the court mandated support amount (THAT ENDS AT 18 and is NOT available for college) but won’t pay a dime more. If dad paid support, college counts his income, you cannot get the “out” you’re mentioning. So Mom has to figure out how to pay the expected Family contribution based just on HER income. Ask me how I know.
If your parents are divorced, you really often get cheated out of college. And there is nothing you can do about it. These kids are poor and making them wait until they are 26 is not fair. It’s not like the kids have their own $.
And we suspect that admissions isn’t need-blind, so if you don’t file a FAFSA, I have a feeling you are saying 1) I can and will pay full freight and 2) it won’t go unnoticed, so I think that any people who could pay would continue to pay. Kids with divorced parents aren’t choosing to hoard assets.
Yes, this is unfortunately true. In many ways, if you are smart and motivated, it is better to be poor than middle class. I got married at 19 to be able to finish college without a heap of debt (divorced since) as I knew my chosen profession would never allow me to pay it off. My cousin took a more arduous step and emancipated when she was 16 for this exact reason (first generation immigrant with a brilliant mind and a stepdad who supported his two adult children and two baby grandchildren with no intention of paying a cent towards her college tuition). I think the difference is we did this on our own versus someone’s parents, unsure if their kid even wants to go to school, doing this on children’s behalf. We have very few systems in place that encourage self-motivation and initiative, I guess this is one way to apply those qualities towards your own success.
My cousins are in this boat — maybe they should consider emancipation since the divorced parent they live with has no $ (and has cancer, so can barely make her hourly pay job) but their dad is a surgeon with a new family, so won’t spend $ for them for college. Either emancipation or the GI bill I guess.
It is so much harder to be “smart and motivated” in terms of academic achievement if you are poor rather than middle class. Family stress due to poverty, need to work after school rather than study and participate in extracurriculars – these things take a major toll.
“In many ways, if you are smart and motivated, it is better to be poor than middle class”… except for all of the advantages that get you into and pressure you to go to college for the preceding 18 years.
Right. It’s not like you could just take a “smart, motivated” middle class kid and wave a wand and make them poor and nothing else would change. Growing up poor vs. middle class = an entirely different person/life.
There is this perception that poor kids get to go to college for free, and that is just not true. They have more access to grants and scholarships than your average middle-class kid, but they are still taking out significant student loans. The maximum amount of a federal pell grant is $6,195 per year – that is barely a dent in the cost of college. Except at the very most elite schools, which, let’s be honest, most people with a family income under $30k are not getting in to, colleges just don’t meet all of a students financial need with scholarships and grants. And there are not nearly enough stipends for summer internships for college students to provide an income for all poor students who want to do a summer internship, and that’s if they even know of them.
This. My experience was that “poor” kids were more likely to get financial aid, but they often had to take out loans for cost of living, etc. I grew up fairly solidly middle class. My parents were not able to help much at all due to the fact that I went to school in the middle of the recession when their business tanked. However, they were always able to contribute to my rent each month and give me money for food/clothes etc. at the end of the semester when I ran out. They also lived close enough to a city that I could work in during summers so that I did not have to pay rent. I have friends that took out loans or took extra jobs to pay off all of these “extra” expenses that I was fortunate enough not to deal with, even though their tuition and main academic expenses were covered by aid or scholarship.
A lot of elite schools are desperate for socioeconomic diversity and will cover the entire cost of attendance, including meals and housing, for kids from families making less than $50K-70K. The problems for families making $80K WHEN IT COMES TO COLLEGE PAYMENT are very real.
But most people don’t go to elite schools. State schools can’t cover this (maybe places like UCB and UVA can, but not most). Private schools are stretched thin. What if you go to UCSF — SF is an expensive place to live even if you have free tuition.
And very students get in to elite schools, especially not poor students who want to bad inner-city or rural schools, had to deal with significant family stress, and are first generation college students.
Yes, some poor kids luck out and get a full ride that covers everything. But let’s not pretend that is the norm.
20% of college students at Harvard pay nothing to attend. That’s a really solid chunk and that’s only the kids with the full ride package.
I really don’t care about Harvard. It’s good for the poor kids there, but 99.99% of poor kids won’t be there. They will be at under-resourced state U or the schools that the Varsity Blues kids should have been at in the first place.
Harvard provides full financial aid to anyone with a family HHI less than $65k and then requires at most 10% of HHI between 65k and 150k. So that family with a HHI of 80k worried about paying for college would only have to pay, at most, 8k a year at Harvard. Most Americans would agree that an 8k contribution for a family with a HHI of 80k is not particularly worrisome.
Let’s not pretend that Harvard is the norm, for either low-income or poor students.
* for either low-income or middle-class students.
And, by the way, the average HHI in the US is only just over $60k. So, we don’t know how many of those students paying nothing at Harvard are really low-income, and how many are middle income. I find it hard to believe that many of those 20% come from a family with an income under 30k, as opposed to most coming from a HHI of 50-65k.
8K per year is definitely “worrisome” for families making $80K in the Bay Area. If you don’t get that, then you’re definitely not from here and definitely not interested in empathizing with those who don’t qualify for full rides just for making slightly more than other low-income families.
Aftercare for elementary schoolers costs more than $8k? And daycare for an infant costs at least 3 times that? I’m not saying $8k is a trivial expense for everyone making $80k, but I guess I don’t see why this is a college-specific issue. At least colleges have loans, as someone pointed out below you can’t take loans for daycare or elementary school aftercare.
Yes. Growing up my mom made no more than 20K a year. I went to Stanford and I think about 90% of my tuition was covered.
This was true when I applied to college 15 years ago (my parents earned $75k and I got no need-based aid) but is less true now. Most of the really elite schools like Harvard now offer very significant aid, if not a full ride, to families making $75-150k. And it’s a sliding scale…it’s not like if you make $149k you pay 10% of your income (= $14,900) and if you make $151,000 you pay the full $65k or whatever it costs to attend. You basically pay 10% of your income up to $150k and then your aid is reduced commensurately for income you earn beyond that. Somebody who earns $200k is probably going to get some aid at Harvard now.
College should be free. Yes, even for rich kids. In a progressive tax system, I have absolutely no problem letting Malia Obama get a free public college education right alongside Joe from the trailer park. It’s democratic and equalizing.
Everyone complains about the cost of college. But many colleges cost less than the cost of daycare (i.e., under $25k a year), you have had 18 years to save up, and you can take loans for it.
We should do something about the cost of college, but that is not my biggest complaint about living in the US.
THANK YOU! I work at a state university. The attached daycare (which to be fair, is absolutely amazing) costs over $20,000/year. In-state tuition at the university is literally half as much. People ask me how we’re going to pay for college and it’s so hard not to burst out laughing. Um, maybe with some of the money that’s currently being directed to daycare? Hopefully our kids won’t be enrolled in daycare and college simultaneously. And far more people have kids than go to college.
That’s not a realistic expectation — when day care ended, I spent only *slightly* less $ on teacher-workday camps, after school child care, school break care (I can’t take off 2 weeks at xmas or a week in the spring — I just get a few days if I am lucky and in tax season I often have to work and work later than normal), snow day care, and summer camps. I just didn’t spend it every week.
My kids’ school gets out at 3:15. My job ends significantly later.
You misunderstood.. I was not saying I’ll be able to save money when my kids start kindergarten and use that to pay for college (I will, because I have a unique situation but I won’t argue because it’s not the point and it doesn’t apply to most people).
I’m saying I currently pay $22,000/kid for daycare out of current cash flow, not savings. Tuition at our very good public university is $10,000/kid. They are not going to be enrolled in daycare and college at the same time. Why do I need to save for college if I didn’t save for daycare and am currently paying that bill that is twice as big? And yes, I’m more privileged than most, but the point that daycare is more expensive than many colleges applies to everyone.
Most people rob Peter to pay Paul to get the daycare bill paid. And that means not funding your own 401K plan at times (I can do that here and there, but not forever b/c I am going to actually retire at some point I hope), charging tuition, putting $ into dependent care flex spending if you can, etc. I charged groceries once to pay for daycare. I can’t live like that long-term — and I can’t pay for college like that. I think that my income will go up over time and I need to work b/c that is how we get health insurance, and I like to think that after-school expenses will be lower (like .75 of what day care was), but it is not a walk in the park. So unless my income goes way up (which it may not — I may have to drop to part time to handle the juggle), I just cannot live like this to pay for college (which is like 25K/year at my state’s main state U campuses).
Anon at 5:34 – I get your point. It’s not an issue of telling people that they have to pay $70k all of a sudden. If you put a few thousand dollars towards college every year (which should be doable for most dual-income households), then after 15 years, you have enough to cover expenses at a reasonably good state school.
You’re not paying full freight at Duke, but your kids are able to attend college.
“It’s not an issue of telling people that they have to pay $70k all of a sudden. If you put a few thousand dollars towards college every year (which should be doable for most dual-income households), then after 15 years, you have enough to cover expenses at a reasonably good state school.”
This is the only way our son is going to be able to go to college, because we started saving little bits of money early. We started a college fund when I was pregnant with him and put $50 a month in it for the first 10 years, with a couple of larger additions when he got money from his grandparents (like $100/$200 at a time, four or five times in 10 years) or we inherited money from relatives (we put $2500 in when we inherited about $20k from my husband’s grandfather in 2008). A couple of years ago we started ramping up contributions. By the time he goes to college in 5 more years, we should have about $25k for him to access. Not a lot, but not nothing and we’re already talking to him about the value of going to an in-state affordable school. Almost all of his friends are hearing the same message from their parents, most of whom have nothing saved for their kids’ college. We’re also hearing from more and more parents whose kids are getting jobs, going to school online, and living at home until their degree is done.
Colleges have priced themselves out of reach of most kids and kids are figuring out other things to do. Half of young people don’t see the point in going to college, and aren’t going, based on an article I read the other day. The Ivys will always attract students and the affordable state schools will do fine. The public and private “mid-tier” schools that are now $30-40k per year need to worry. People can’t afford to pay for it outright and the word is out about student loan debt – people aren’t willing to just sign the line for the cash the way my generation was. Something’s going to have to give.
your parents maybe had 18 years to save up. But are you truly expecting a 2 year old to be saving? or a ten year old to hold on to their meager allowance because in a few years it will cover an minuscule portion of an education you can’t really conceive of at that age. Or all 14 year olds should be working three jobs to save for college, never mind that theyre a child and should have a childhood.
But the main issue here is what about the kids whose parents are unwilling or unable to pay.
I’ve been reading this blog so long that I remember Auntie M. Congrats to your friend!
TMI and Vent ahead- my summer vacation ended with explosive diarrhea. It’s been 6 days, I feel like he**, and just got back from my second Urgent Care visit, and they Just finally gave me an iv and meds. I haven’t been able to take my anxiety/ depression meds, so my anxiety is through the roof, and this sickness just makes me feel like my life is literally in the toilet. I’m underpaid, single, and right now reliant on my parents to help me get to the doctor. I know my life isn’t bad, but right it feels like it. The only bright spots are that my parents are amazing, and the doctor said I can take Imodium D now. Never thought I’d be so grateful for Imodium. Thanks for letting me vent.
Have you been tested for c.diff?
Vent validated. I’m sorry. Being sick is one of the hardest situations for being single.
Agreed 100%. I am so thankful to live in a city with my siblings who are willing to leave me kleenex, gatorade, and groceries at the door. It STILL sucks. A lot.
In high school I had a bout of …. food poisoning? Giardia? I have no idea – but I literally sh!t myself twice. Thankfully not while I was in classes. It really does make you feel uniquely awful.
I’m so sorry you’re going through this and I hope you start feeling better soon.
I’m so sorry! I had a horrible bout of something that may have been food poisoning while in Utah for a family wedding. It was the night before the wedding, thankfully, so I was able to just hole up and take medication (except for my aunt not understanding why I couldn’t go pick her up from dinner when my cousin was too drunk to drive her). I was barely able to eat at the wedding and I had symptoms literally every time I ate anything for the next two weeks or so. It was so frustrating to go to leave the house to go somewhere and then have to turn around and go to the bathroom and be late for everything. I hope you feel better soon.
I think there is a virus going around. My infant recently had diarrhea for more than 2 weeks. We went to the pediatrician twice and after following the recommendation of giving baby probiotics, it’s finally getting better. And I’ve heard from other people of adults who have had symptoms for 2+ weeks. So sorry! It stinks, but just wanted you to know that it might not be anything too serious.
Auntie M! I remember reading her useful post on egg freezing. Would love her to do a follow up post if she ends up thawing/using those eggs (I froze shortly after her and am considering thawing soon!).
To be totally honest, I thought this was about meal prepping and got really confused about why you kept eggs frozen for so long.
I just need to rant about the move/purchase we’re currently going through, with the recognition that this is a first world problem. Nearly nothing has gone well, and it makes me feel so incompetent at life.
The bad: Getting laundry machines – so hard to find a retailer that will deliver according to my building’s requirements. Find one after many tries, and they lost my order and later said they would not deliver in the timeframe required. Seems to be resolved after some angry phone calls, threatening to return, insults hurled at me by the salesperson, and my husband leaving work to go yell at the salesperson. We’ll see if they show up.
Window treatments – ordered custom shades, and the whole order didn’t come. Shade place has no idea what happened, and keeps calling me to ask things I have already told them. No resolution in sight. They are friendly, but unhelpful and keep asking the same basic questions over and over. Will likely need to go there in person too and escalate to a manager or something. Were very (very) expensive so very annoying.
Internet company – Self set-up did not work. They messed up the appointment time, even though I took a day off of work.
HOA/building management – very difficult to get ahold of them, they charge a lot of fees and issue fines willy nilly (already got a steep one and am not moved in yet!). Was also a huge pain and cost extra to get two sets of keys (my husband and i are living here and this is a 1M+ condo).
The mediocre: Furniture delivery people lost my order, had the items wrong, but apparently found it now. We’ll see if they show up as well.
Escrow – escrow delayed sending a check to the HOA for prepaid dues because they temporarily “lost” the check, so had to pay more dues to avoid late fees.
The good: I got parking permits from the city for my moving and delivery vehicles. Easy process, and they posted the signs super timely. Surprised local government is the most competent third party I have dealt with.
Moving company – very on it, used them several times before, confident they will do a good job. Doing a two-day move to comply with building requirements and not charging extra for it even though they could!
Current building manager has been great about move out.
There is more but this is enough….
Any tips for mentally gearing up for a big “hustle” period at work? The next few months are looking … interesting. Plus we’re short-staffed. I can already tell that my attitude needs some work, and I’d greatly appreciate any advice for resetting and staying calm, cool and collected during a tough stretch.
I’ve just finished extra tough period at work. What helped me was knowing that it has an end date, I set myself top 5 priorities, on which I delivered 100% and the rest of tasks were fine as long as they were done. I also informed my team about all of this and they helped as much as they could (mostly by limiting their escalations and 1:1 meetings with me). In private life, I reduced and simplified my routine to bare minimum – decided to stick to my “uniform”, minimal cleaning (I do it automatically in the morning, plus robo vacuuming in afternoon), bringing home-cooked (very simple) meals to work to ensure I don’t eat cafeteria cr@p, and 4x week spinning (I have a spin bike at home). Truth be told, I survived, but last two weeks were mentally tough and I reacted emotionally at one meeting (I am a very stable, low-emo personality, somit came as a surprise, but no drama). It would have been better if I could take 1 day off every few weeks to switch off. You can do this!
Anyone have experience with either the Sezane Gaby bag or the Polene bags? I am obsessed with both but it’s hard when you can’t see the bags IRL.
Any thoughts on a cheaper alternative to either of those styles would also be appreciated!
I have not found that Sezane bags are very good quality. I returned the two bags I bought there (not the Gaby, but other leather bags). Quality was about the same as when Kate Spade made a short-lived lower-priced line, Saturday.
I have the Halogen Cashmere scarf in the light lavender that Kat posted a few months ago, at a very low price for cashmere. Got it on sale and I have it draped over a chair, where I look at it and rub it obsessively because it is so soft. It’s big enough to be a shawl or wear on a plane for warmth. I don’t wish for fall to come but if I needed a reason to be happy for fall, that is it.
OMG, fall cannot come soon enough. Honestly, I’ll take mid-90s. ANYTHING. Or, maybe just no poisonous algae in the water so my dog can cool off at least.
Sorry for hijacking to vent…it’s just SO HOT.
Hi Austin
The afternoon mod times are clearly horrendous. Any way to improve that situation? (Not everyone is signed in…or forgets to re-sign in after clearing browser cookies and whatnot.)
I’ve decided that I want to buy a purse that will last forever (well, you know, within reason). My style hasn’t changed in decades and I just hate the purse-buying process, so I end up just using cheap purses until they fall apart.
Where do you go to get a custom purse? I assume leather is the right material for a long-lasting piece? I have pretty specific requirements on the size and shoulder strap length, and I’m open to black or gray in color. I don’t quite know what an appropriate price range would be? I did a quick search on Etsy and it seems like you can get semi-custom work for $250 – $750. Is that the best place to look or are there other people who produce this product?