Suit of the Week: Armani

Armani Collezioni Wool Crepe Trapeze JacketFor busy working women, the suit is often the easiest outfit to throw on in the morning. In general, this feature is not about interview suits for women, which should be as classic and basic as you get — instead, this feature is about the slightly different suit that is fashionable, yet professional.

I love the look of this trapeze jacket from Armani Collezioni. The inverted back pleat, wide lapels, three-quarter sleeves, and deep indigo color look interesting, and a bit like a modern take on a ladies’ suit of the 1950s. They’re both available for preorder at Saks Fifth Avenue: the jacket (Armani Collezioni Wool Crepe Trapeze Jacket) is $1055, and the skirt (Armani Collezioni Wool Crepe Pencil Skirt) is $395.

Armani Collezioni Wool Crepe Trapeze Jacket Armani Collezioni Wool Crepe Pencil Skirt

(L-5)

Comments

  1. Gorgeous! I love that the suit is a dark, professional color, but it isn’t navy or black! Indigo seems to be a popular name for brighter-than-navy right now. I’ve been looking forward to the return of rich, dark colors for fall.

    • I agree! And beleive it or not, I do NOT think this is to expensive for what you get!

      The manageing partner today was very busy stareing at me all morning, then out the window, then back at me. He is acteing very wierd today. His brother came in to the office with some other guy, and they both wanted for me and the manageing partner to go OUT to eat lunch. The brother is bald also.

      But b/c I am trying to loose weight, I told the manageing partner I could only eat a cobb salad, so they did NOT want to go with me to the salad place.

      I am going to see if the manageing partner will aprove this suit for me, b/c that will save me some money and I need a nice new suit!

    • Gorgeous color. The jacket looks a little boxy but perhaps it’s just the way it fits on the model.

      • I also love it. I have a similarly boxy jacket and find it’s surpsingly flattering (and comfortable).

      • D Train South :

        I’m not sure I love all of the details on this jacket, but I sure do love this color. I watched some law drama in the 80s or 90s that described the perfect color blue for a suit, and it never left my conscience. This is it, but it’s been hard to find. Perhaps this fall I will finally get a suit this color . . .

  2. Legal jobs :

    I know we’ve been down this road before, but I wanted to get an updated roundup. What type of legal jobs are available that don’t fall into the usual suspect categories — like law firm, government, or in house? What jobs have you had or friends had that are atypical?

    I’m specifically interested in jobs that intersect with business, but aren’t your traditional in-house role. Like strategy, or consulting.

    Has anyone thought about trying to work for a startup as an early legal counsel / business strategy blend?

    • Anonymous :

      I am a labor and employment attorney turned labor relations consultant. HR is a popular crossover as well.

      • I’m a L&E attorney as well and have been interested in crossing into HR, but all of the positions want x number of years of HR experience and I’ve wondered if they would count my litigation experience. I have zero knowledge about a lot of the HR software or the nitty gritty stuff, although I am experienced in EEO practices, discrimination and accommodation issues, wage and hour laws, etc.

        I’d love to learn more about labor relations consulting, and whether anybody has made the jump to HR (and if an HR certificate is necessary or helpful).

        • Anonymous :

          I don’t have a ton of knowledge about the HR route, but I don’t think at the director/vp level most companies would expect you to be a whiz with peoplesoft or whatever software they use. I’m guessing SHRM would be a good resource? The people I have seen make a successful transition to HR are attorneys in the 6-10 year range of experience, going to clients – almost a modified in house move. Many have been in the health care industry or education.

          I have a kind of unique background and a very specific college degree that really helped me get into my field. As far as labor relations consulting – from what I see, the most in demand skills are CBA negotiation and assisting employers with union campaigns. I am on the management end of things, but I’m sure you could make the leap to union work (on the ground organizing, political action, regional representation, etc) – but they usually really want to see commitment to the cause. I don’t see people going from management L&E work to union work – at least without a stopover at the NLRB, other government, or academia first.

    • My former Manager of Health & Safety was a lawyer. Safety revolves around OSHA and regulations so having a law background was really helpful. He also could work with our legal department to defend against OSHA citations. It was definitely a huge asset to our department.

    • I recently interviewed a woman who, throughout her career, has gone back and forth between legal jobs and operations/management jobs in both private industry and non-profits. She has a masters in public policy in addition to her law degree.

      The only other lawyers I can think who aren’t practicing are a law librarian and a kayaking instructor.

      • Legal jobs :

        Interesting. I wonder if you generally need to have a business school background for the management/operations jobs.

        Can anyone tell that I think I picked the wrong profession? ;)

    • I have one former lawyer friend who is VP of Logistics for a construction company. Another is VP of HR, and she started out in employment law. Another was a professional poker player for a few years when he got fed up with firm life, and is now working for one of his family members in historical consulting.

    • Another Sarah :

      I’m in Regulatory Affairs for an international company. I like it a lot, since it’s pretty legal-esque, but a little more business-y. The position I have is usually for a scientist/engineer who’s been developing stuff for a long time, so coming almost straight from lib arts/law school, the learning curve is steep. But I really enjoy it. In the coming years, I’ll be working on international certifications for my company, so tons of research and travel.

    • Don’t even ask me. I make jewelry and teach yoga, so I’m not one to be giving out career advice.

      (:

    • My bf is a compliance officer for a large bank. He’s not a lawyer, but many of his colleagues have JDs. It’s a good law-related but not practice job. I imagine similar positions are available at corporations.

    • Anonymous :

      A lot of banks that have Wealth Management departments hire JDs to be Trust Advisors. I don’t know if that’s something you would be interested in though.

  3. '80s Hair :

    I realize this probably sounds crazy, but we got an email today saying that we’re having a surprise party on Friday for someone who’s been at our company for 30 years and we should dress like it’s 1982. Apparently the key is hair. I was not alive in 1982. What do I do with my hair? It’s a little below the shoulder and straight and I normally don’t do anything beyond drying it. I work at a company where at least some people will really get into this, so I would love to really rock this. Anyone been holding onto 30-year-old hair secrets?

    • That is awesome. No advice, just props to your company. (Did they say “props” in 1982?)

    • The key is the bangs – take a curling iron and in one big roll, curl them under – then take a pick and fluff them up and heavily spray! Also, pull back the sides of your hair, just above your ears, but close to your face – spray with hair spray and use a blow dryer to “hold it” in place. Do this, and you will have authentic 80s hair!

      • OMG, one of the ladies in my church choir still does this with her bangs! She also wears dark hose with white sandals. But she’s wonderful.

      • Of course, the real secret was to first roll your bangs back towards the crown of your head, and THEN roll them in two curls to one side. And THEN fluff them up and heavily spray! You get some serious height and volume that way (technique perfected during many, many slumber party sessions).

        I remember 80s fashion as requiring many layers – 3 pairs of different colored socks, which matched your two layered Outback Red henley shirts, paired with pleated, tapered jeans and white keds. Or a brightly colored suit with belted waist and big shoulder pads. Or a giant sweatshirt with neon stirrup leggings and pointy-toed flats, preferably with a lace headband. Splatterpaint, anyone?

    • PharmaGirl :

      Was crimping in yet? Can you even get a crimping iron anymore? If not, tease the heck out of it and douse in hair spray.

      • big hair … achieved with LOADS of hairspray

      • long time lurker :

        you can buy crimped fake-y extensions if your hair is really straight and doesn’t hold a crimp or you can’t locate a crimping iron.

        my late 80s early 90s look was a bad spiral perm and the crazy big bangs. In 1982 I was probably still rocking a bowl cut.

      • Yes! Tease, tease, tease. The goal is generally to get it as big as you can– loads of cheap hairspray (you want it to look sprayed) and tease the bejeezus out of it. The last 80′s thing I did I also got a great neon pink headband with a giant bow on it, off to the side a little. My hair is shorter than yours, so I wanted to punch it up a little.

    • momentsofabsurdity :

      I always do a side pony for 80s days, since it’s easy to remove on the commute so I don’t look quite so crazy.

    • Simple – youtube music videos from that timeframe and copy as best you can. Kudos to your cool company. Mine is such a snoozefest.

    • You could go for denim on denim like Madonna circa 1982: http://blog.stylesight.com/denim/denim-flashback-madonna%E2%80%99s-1982-style-for-out-magazine

      Big hair was in, look at google images for 1982 hair.

    • Do you have a hoop earring. Wear only one and hang a key on it. I think that was 80s plus it’s fun!

    • Research, Not Law :

      You weren’t *alive* in 1982?

      ::sobs::

      • I’ve come to terms that I am probably old enough to be the mother of many of our beloved commenters. I started college in 1982. I did not have big hair back then, although I was rocking multiple layers of shirts in shades of pink or blue (think turtleneck, collared shirt with collar turned up, then sweatshirt or chamois shirt) with jeans and either white Keds or topsiders.

      • My mom started college in 1982! But my mom is young & cool, so its ok :)

      • This.

    • Power suits! Have you seen Working Girl? Wear a suit with shoulder pads, a longish skirt, a woven shell, pantyhose, white socks, and sneakers.

      (Also, I died a little bit inside when I read that you were not alive in 1982.)

    • D Train South :

      Aqua Net. That is the key to 80s hair. And you can go to any store aimed at the trendy tween/teen today and walk out looking like you stepped out of 1982 — but add some leg warmers.

  4. peeps – one of you please tell me it’s ok if you’re borderline abused a couple of days or so before your last day at work. Not sure if the mgr is pissed i’m leaving or his gigantic ego is hurt because I’ve not accepted his offer to stay back, but things are getting pretty nasty here. Mgr is simply being petty.

    Please say it’s ok. I’ve been down all day, and I really need to cheer up as in-laws are coming over for dinner tonight.

    BTW, for the millionth time, I AM SO GLAD I AM LEAVING THIS PLACE. Gosh, that feels so good.

    • Barrister in the Bayou :

      I got yelled at soooo bad by a former boss a few days before I was set to leave a job that I had to resign effective immediately (after having given proper notice).

      He was clearly taking his panic and frustrations out on me and I was already sick (literally) and tired of it. I quit and he followed me to my desk to watch me remove my belongings.

      You are almost done tho’! Congrats on that!

    • sorry in advance for the novel :

      This was me last week. JSFAMO. It is not okay, he is a worm, and obviously leaving is a good choice.

    • Seattleite :

      It’s easier to part angry than to simply part. (A fact that is well known by parents of most rising college freshmen.)

      He’s emotionally immature, doesn’t know how to deal with his own guilt/anxiety/sense of abandonment, and is taking it out on you.

      For your own sake, push back. You’ll feel much stronger and more empowered, and what’s he gonna do, fire you?

    • Aw, try not to let him get you down. Stand up for yourself; you may regret a missed opportunity – I did. You will feel better.

    • I have a coworker whose last day is on Friday, and his immediate senior person (not his actual boss) has literally not spoken to him since he resigned. They were the only two people on the elevator yesterday, and she pulled out her phone and didn’t speak to him. Seriously.

      Anyway, to answer your question – no, it’s not ok, but there’s nothing you can do about it short of telling him to F off and quitting effective today.

    • SF Bay Associate :

      Paging Bunkster… Bunkster… Bunkster to the board please…

      • HA SF Bay Associate for the win. So glad Bunkster has a new job!

      • Ha. Didn’t see this before. I considered telling my boss off, but I took the high road.

        Instead, once I gave notice, I left early most days and worked from home twice. And I just stopped caring.

        But, E., the other guy on my team did not speak to me at all after I gave notice.
        And neither he nor my boss came to the team lunch for me. My boss actually called in sick, rather than go. And this guy just declined the invite. Very weird and unprofessional!

        You’re out, though. Congratulations!

    • Anon for now :

      Does cutting your last paycheck in half unilaterally count? I would have left later, but there was a history of late paychecks and a paycheck that bounced!

  5. Any have any info on the fit of Black Halo dresses? There are 2 sizes left of the dress I want – my typical size and the next size up. I’m wondering if the dresses run small and whether I should order the larger one just in case. Probably should just order both and return one but at close to $400 each that hurts a little, even knowing that I’ll get a refund.

    Thanks!

  6. Barrister in the Bayou :

    I know some ladies have already commented on the HBO show “Girls” – but I wanted to hear some opinions now that more episodes have aired.

    I have mixed feelings about the show, but I will probably keep watching if it gets brought back for a second season.

    What say ye?

    • momentsofabsurdity :

      Still enjoy it, still troubled by the lack of minorities. So generally I’m with you – mixed feelings.

      • downstream :

        can I ask why that troubles you? I’m a little older than the characters on the show, live in white people Brooklyn, and I have essentially no minority friends (and my friends are the same way). I would certainly welcome minority friends (as I would welcome any type of friend) and I didn’t try to only have friends that fit into my own ethno-socio-economic background but that’s how it worked out. (Caveat: I have one Asian friend, despite growing up in a heavily Asian neighborhood and attending a heavily Asian high school and college).

        So the lack of minorities doesn’t bother me, because that’s how it is. I agree with AIMS below, to insert a minority character just to make people happy would be disingenuous. I don’t think it’s part of being sheltered or self-involved – I don’t think I’m sheltered and if I am self-involved, I don’t see how being less so would gain me more minority friends. Overall I think it’s a pretty unfair criticism to levy at the show.

        • momentsofabsurdity :

          I’ll copy paste/slightly edit from another response I posted on the site about this subject – was just talking with a friend about it last night:

          The issue I have with Girls is that there should at least be model minorities around them, even if they aren’t interacting with traditionally marginalized groups regularly. I (disclosure – member of a model minority group) went to a small private LAC with a ton of kids coming from prep schools and had primarily white friends, but also Asian, Indian, Arab, etc. My sister went to an expensive university in the city and is currently living with a group of kids including a white girl from the south, a black girl from the midwest, Italian girl from Jersey, etc, all partially or completely funded by their parents 1-2 years post grad) — where are these kids? Privileged, middle class, college educated kids absolutely can be minorities and often assimilate into primarily white groups of friends. These kids exist in the lives of these girls, even if they don’t notice it but Girls is not representing this (or really any other) minority group.

          I have a lot of friends who have said things to me like “I think of you as white” or even once, a friend that nudged me at a bar frequented by African Americans and went “Oh my god, are we the only white people in here?” (In fact, no, YOU are the only white person here!) But minorities are a part of this upper echelon of society – it’s just that the girls on Girls (and even a lot of people in real life) don’t often really think about them. I was at to one of the most expensive colleges in the country, in one of the whitest states — there were still minorities there. Predominantly model minorities like myself or well-off international students, but we were there – we just blended in well, so a lot of people seem to forget we existed. In other words – most of the time, that’s not “how it is.” Maybe I just “see” it more because I am a member of one of those groups.

          So, in other words, I understand the girls in “Girls” aren’t going to be hanging out with too many black kids from the projects. But they ARE in an environment where there are minorities. Indeed, at their elite LACs, there were probably plenty, especially model minorities, and in New York it would be even harder to self isolate – but this is as yet entirely ignored. That doesn’t mean I think it will be long term, and I definitely understand the tendency to self-isolate — but model minorities often assimilate almost seamlessly into predominantly white groups and are represented in the dynamic represented on Girls.

          • downstream :

            I didn’t mean for my comment to imply that there are no educated, successful minorities – obviously there are. My point is that my group of friends doesn’t include any minorities, and I don’t think that’s uncommon.

            I take it you’re not in NYC, and maybe it’s different in other places, but the minority status on Girls is pretty accurate. For instance, my friends and I were talking about this exact same thing (lack of minorities in Girls) in a bar in Brooklyn two weeks ago, and someone said sarcastically, “Yeah it’s totally unrealistic because there are so many minorities at this bar.” In a crowd of 50+ people, there was maybe 1-2 people of color there. We can talk about whether that’s how it should be or why that is or maybe we’re all just a bunch of latent racists, but the lack of minorities in Girls is not so far from how it actually is in Brooklyn.

          • The “black kids from the projects” line is just…CRINGE.
            I love that you describe yourself as “model minority”, and then the only people you can think of from “the projects” are black kids… Basically, people like you should be on the show and other minorities shouldn’t.

            Assimilation certainly can make you think like who you assimilate into. Congrats.

          • ChocCityB&R :

            Joining in the cringe on the black kids from the projects. And I’m a black kid from the projects.

          • momentsofabsurdity :

            Fair comment re: black kids from the projects. Upon reread, it sounds much worse than I intended and was meant to both satirize and be levied at the counter criticism that “Of *course* these girls don’t hang out with “black kids from the projects” because their life and social sphere is JUST SO DIFFERENT so why are you worried about minorities on this show?!”. It didn’t come off that way, and I apologize for that – I should have chosen my words and my implications more thoughtfully.

            And as for the NYC connection: My sister (re: “expensive university in the city” — was meant to reference NYC) lives in the city and I’m there often. And to be honest, no, I really haven’t gone anywhere in the city where there aren’t a few minorities. And I live in Boston, which is less diverse than NYC and honestly that’s still true.

          • ChocCityB&R :

            momentsofabsurdity- ok, I get your point, and maybe we can still be friends :-) I will respectfully object to the idea that an absence of model minorities makes the show less realistic. Based on my purely scientific anecdotal evidence: I know a lot of [rich/upper class/educational elite] white people who have only white friends. I know a lot of the above described types of white people who think they have one black friend from the projects (me) and really we just work in adjacent offices and occasionally chat about what happened on mad men last night. And I know a lot of the above described types of white people who have minorities friends, of the “model minority” flavor, and plain old original flavor like me. I think that Girls is an accurate depiction of the first group, so personally, I have no problem with the lack of minorities. In fact, I think it would be incredibly smart if the show actually explored some of the privileges of the first group through a one off random episode in the life of one of the invisible minorities they encounter on a daily basis. Sort of a Rosencrantz and Guildenstern of histperdom.

          • Dont get it :

            “Based on my purely scientific anecdotal evidence: I know a lot of [rich/upper class/educational elite] white people who have only white friends. I know a lot of the above described types of white people who think they have one black friend from the projects (me) and really we just work in adjacent offices and occasionally chat about what happened on mad men last night.”

            This doesn’t describe me, but it does describe many people I know, and I have to say, I feel your characterization is unfair.

            (a) Why is it so bad if a white person has only white friends? I think a person with the elite background you speak of could easily have only white friends entirely by chance. Should they go out of their way to befriend non-white friends just for the sake of diversity? (The very thing you describe in your 2nd sentence in a negative light?)

            (b) What is wrong with your coworkers being friendly? Unless they make a point of calling your their “one black friend”, I think they are just being friendly, with no hidden agendas. It seems like you are the one who is focused on your race in these interactions – not them.

          • ChocCityB&R :

            ugh…Don’t get it, I had a long reply to your comment and it got eaten by the internet monster. To paraphrase:

            (1) I think people should go out of their way to make friends with people who are different than they are, so long as they do so genuinely and with mutual respect.

            (2) I don’t think there is anything “so bad” about someone having only white friends, and I don’t think I said so in my comment. I only said that it’s realistic to me because I know people like that. Whether or not it’s a bad thing depends on the context.

            (3) I like friendly co-workers. But being friendly does not make you my friend. Doing friend stuff like visiting my scary “Mexican” neighborhood to attend a party at my house (yes, a friendly co-worker refused my invitation for this reason–I guess since I’m not Mexican he thought it was okay to say to me) or going to see a Tyler Perry movie with me (I’m racially obligated to go to these), this is what makes a friend. Refusing to step out of your comfort zone to engage with me on a non-superficial “friendly” level does not make you my friend. And if you try to use me to check a box on your token list, I WILL call you out (funny story attached to that, alas for another day).

        • Definitely Anon :

          Just because you don’t have minority friends doesn’t mean minorities are absent around you. The “that’s how it is” statement you made is precisely why TV programs like this are an issue. It ISN’T like that. You have the privilege of thinking so because you are white.

          • agree. “that’s how it is”…about new york? really?

          • downstream :

            Obviously there are minorities around me, but the point was (I thought) that there were no minority main characters on the show, and I’m saying it’s understandable. I’m just expressing what I see and perceive while living here.

          • Y’know I get that it is frustrating to not see diversity in this show, or in a particular show, and many times it does bug me about a show so much that I stop watching. So, I caveat this with the fact that I really do care a lot about race and gender and sexuality issues, etc.

            BUT, i have to say, I think all the frustration at this particular show, and at Lena Dunham in particular is actually misplaced. I think she’s making a show based on her life, and she is white, so her show has white people, fine. The problem is that TV producers/studios/networks are only choosing to air shows made by white people about white people.

            I don’t think the solution is to make This Particular Show put more minorities in it. I think the solution is for the studios/networks to seek out and air shows created and written by a diversity of people, so that the Show*s* on TV represent a broad range of unitedstatesean experiences, including the black female experience, the asian gay male experience, the whatever experience. And not just the stereotyped version.

            But this is my sloppy attempt to very quickly encapsulate something that is super huge and complex and is not easy to encapsulate in a quick comment, so it might not come across the way I mean it. I just realized it bugs me that people are kind of blaming Lena Dunham, when she’s just a 20-something writer/filmmaker and she’s not single-handedly responsible for the lack of diversity on TV, and actually has very little power in this situation, relative to others. A little bit of a divide-and-conquer, fight amongst yourselves situation.

          • zora I actually never read that as the critisism. I didn’t think it was “dunham should throw some more minorities in there” but more like “dunham managed to live in new york and not interact with a single minority”

          • I agree with Zora.

            And ok, maybe there aren’t any people of color in their group of friends, but are there black/Latino/Asian other characters? Teachers? People they interact with? Or is the show all white?

            I haven’t seen the show.

          • FWIW, there are peripheral minority characters on the show. At one point, Hanna works in an office where I think one of her coworkers, maybe both, are non-white; also, I think the doctor in the Planned Parenthood episode.

            Also, the show just doesn’t have that many characters. It’s not like there are classroom scenes. Half of it takes place in Hanna and Marni’s apartment, the rest is split between Adam’s apt., Shoshana’s apt., the apt. of the girls’ the British Girl babysits… Seriously… there’s not a lot of interaction between the girls and the outside world there. Half the episodes don’t even show them interacting among themselves.

          • cfm – there has been some specific talk about the studio “making Dunham add a minority character” but I see what you are saying about another perspective on the criticism, and I do actually agree with your take. But my main point is: why aren’t we demanding the studios/networks have more diversity across their shows, instead of putting it on each individual filmmaker? I think it’s more of a systemic problem than just Girls.

          • ChocCityB&R :

            Zora, I agree with both you and cfm. This is why my above comment would be so great: have the show actually explore some of the privileges of the first group through a one off random episode in the life of one of the invisible minorities they encounter on a daily basis. Sort of a Rosencrantz and Guildenstern of histperdom. Then we can get back to our regularly scheduled hispter delight (which I admit I enjoy watching despite not seeing much of myself in the characters).

          • ChocCity: I LURV your idea, not least because it would just be awesome as an ep, and it would make the show interesting, and I agree with everything else you have said, but also because the Rosencrantz & Guildenstern reference is the best. thing. in. all. the. lands. You are so awesome, and can we be friends, too??? ;o)

          • Anon for now :

            Exactly. I was in Rome with my family and when we told our waiter we were from Los Angeles, he stated that he was surprised by the high percentage of Latinos. Considering the way Los Angeles is often portrayed on television, his comment makes sense, although Latinos of varying ethnicities live all over Los Angeles. It’s not the lack of a main character who is a minority, but the lack of minority side characters in public scenes.

            The other problem is the title. “Girls” is a broad category that encompasses half the human population when interpreted broadly. Another title would create narrower expectations of the show, as the show is clearly not about all girls.

          • ChocCityB&R :

            Zora – Of course we can be friends ;-)

          • I have a really hard time expressing my thoughts about this show, but I feel compelled to try:

            The lack of minorities bothers me on two different levels. First, there is the general annoyance that TV shows simply don’t have many minorities in general. I am not advocating for them to throw in the random token black person, but instead arguing that the writers should take a look around them and write a full-fledged minority character. Apparently this is too much to ask.

            When I have expressed this first annoyance with the show, invariable someone replies with “But this is her circle! These are her friends and she is just depicting her life! She is just being honest!”. And while that may be true, and as cfm already said, I find it so odd and sort of weird and just uncomfortable that someone managed to go to college, and then live in NY f*ing city and still not have any minorities in their circle of friends. Yes, we all know people who fit this description. No, I do not want to watch those peoples’ TV shows.

            I’m also female, mid-20′s and the show makes me feel super old. There are funny moments, but inevitably I end up yelling “Do something!” at the TV, and then feel like a granny.

          • AIMS points out below that there are minority characters, such as Hanna’s coworkers. Hanna had an Asian coworker, who OF COURSE was an internet geek / coder with no social skills. All I could think was “you’re trying to be funny right??”. Half hilarious, half sad.

          • Divaliscious11 :

            There was a minority….. He was asking for money with a cup or something…… :-/

    • I watched the first 10 minutes of the second or third episode, got annoyed, and didn’t watch anymore. Should I give it another chance, or is it just Not For Me?

      • Jacqueline :

        Same here. Everyone I know raves about it, but I couldn’t connect with the characters. I keep wondering if I should give it another chance.

    • I enjoy the show for what it is. The crack episode seriously made me giggle and some of the other moments (like the Marni/Hanna fight last episode) are seriously moments I have had with my own friends.
      I think that it’s not a show that can be all things to all people, but nor is it meant to be or should be. Perhaps the title “girls” comes off as misleading?
      While it would be nice to have greater diversity on our shows, it’s also not unrealistic here – sadly – that these “girls” live in this sheltered, self-involved sort of world. It’s almost kind of part of the point. I would find it somewhat disingenuous if they all of a sudden introduced a minority character just for the sake of it or to silence critics.
      I think what is interesting about this show is that the characters are not meant to necessarily be likeable at all. That you sometimes like them in spite of how awful they are is an intersting aspect, but I don’t think it’s a show that’s meant to be like some S*x in the City for the 20-something BK set where you get together with your girlfriends and everyone argues over who is Carrie.
      If you are interested in a pleasantly frank discussion about all this, I highly recommend the Bill Simmons podcast with Lena Dunham.

    • I thought it was terrible at first and couldn’t figure out why I kept watching, but then I started watching it as hipster satire and suddenly found it genius.

      • ChocCityB&R :

        This is exactly how I feel about the show. Also as someone slightly older than the target audience/demographic, I can feel superior to them for being silly “girls” with no concept of *real issues* instead of feeling like a loser because I don’t already have my own HBO dramedy at the age of 25.

      • My favorite lines tend to come from Shoshana because they are so patently absurd. I just about died when she was talking about her date and she said, “And he’s in product development, which is great, because I love products.” And Ray is such a great hipster satire, although before I realized that about him I wanted to trip him or something.

    • I find the characters totally unlikable, yet I really enjoy the show.

      • I started out hating Adam but finding everyone else merely unlikeable. For some unknown reason, I continue to watch the show but now find Adam hilarious, while everyone else has transitioned to hated status.

        //Kanye Shrug//

    • MissJackson :

      I hated it at first, but stuck it out, and now I actually like it. I started out despising all of the characters. I still don’t love the characters, but I don’t hate them either. Sometimes stuff is just too weird for me to connect to (notably the quasi-turned-actual boyfriend). But nonetheless I’m hooked.

    • associate :

      I like that a lot of snippets from the show are completely relatable from my 5-7 year ago life. I think that’s why I keep watching it. Every time I do though I end up thinking it’s a complete rip of SITC. But I miss SITC, so again, I keep watching.

    • Alanna of Trebond :

      I too am really troubled by the lack of minorities on the show (actually, I find it offensive). Also, seriously there aren’t minorities in NYC? Since when? One of those spoiled white girls could easily have been a spoiled hipster girl of another race.

      But what really gets me is how awful these characters are. And I don’t think they should have given Lena Dunham a show. But I don’t have to watch it (and after the first episode, I haven’t, so things may have changed…I have read some hilarious recaps online though).

      Also, downstream, are you Lena Dunham and if so, why are you commenting on this site? All of your comments sound like her sad attempts to justify what she does. Is corpo*** going to be like caphillstyle (except with commenters) and everyone turns out to be an NRA lobbyist?

      • Alanna of Trebond :

        Also, this is definitely not a “Girls” specific issue. Just look at HIMYM, which I actually like as a show, but I wish they would replace Lily with someone else, preferably a minority. Most of the time when I watch it now I think of ways that Lily could be killed.

        I am clearly really invested in my television.

        • You think of ways LILY could be killed. Leave Willow alone.

          Personally, I think of ways Ted could die…but I guess that’d undo the whole point of the show.

          • Word, TCFKAG! Even thought Ted is supposedly the “whole point of the show,” he is easily my least favorite character.

          • Alanna of Trebond :

            I only like Robin and Barney and occasionally Marshall. The rest of them can all snuff it.

          • I lurvey lurve Barney and Marshall, am okay with Robin and Lily, and really, really Ted was replaceable. Tactical error making him the central part of the show!

          • Robin’s ok. Marshall’s pretty good. Barney’s the best, but he needs a straight man like Ted.

      • Right, this is the thing, it’s *not* just a Girls issue, and that’s why I’m a little perplexed that all of the interwebs discussion (and i don’t mean you, Alanna, I mean all of the blogosphere as a whole) has been focused on Girls. And I’m like: hello, we’re missing the REALLY important conversation here. Why doesn’t HBO just looks for some awesome minority filmmakers and give THEM a show, TOO?! Then we can have all the colors of all the rainbows on our teevees without needing them all on one tv show.

        I am not, however, going to comment on the Lily portion of your comment, because as a lifelong Buffy lover, I have to love Alyson Hannigan always and forever, so I will keep my mouth shut on that one… b/c i think we are equally strongly invested in our television. ;o)

        • Divaliscious11 :

          Likely because they keep make voice of the generation type comments, and she is presenting a reality that doesn’t exist for most people, yet him limited life experience is the ‘measure.’

          I tried to watch the show….. Thought it was boring awkward sex etc…. I certainly can believe there are people with very limited social circles, just find it odd that one would be an Oberlin grad……

    • Anne Shirley :

      I’m enjoying it more and more most weeks. Thought the party episode was fab. And I’m white, and my world is pretty white, and I live in a big city. If you made a TV show of my life (umm fail. it’s uber boring) you’d primarily be watching white people.

      I find it interesting that all of a sudden when a young woman gets her own show (rare) there’s all this backlash that it isn’t diverse enough. Young educated women who aren’t stripping off on The Bachelor is the diversity to me.

  7. wrong name! :

    I posted yesterday about using the wrong name for an interviewer in an email, and immediately correcting it during the next contact. I wanted to follow up to say that I had a phone interview with her today, and it went GREAT! She is moving me to the next stage of interviews, and I’ll be flying out to meet with the hiring manager in a week or so. This would be a perfect position at a dream company, so I’m hoping everything goes well. I’m a little light on their preferred years of experience (off by 1-2 years), but my interviewer said that was her only concern. So, we’ll see, but I’m so antsy to move this process along now!

    • Congrats! I didn’t chime in because I’ve complained before, but my name gets misspelled ALL THE TIME. I don’t hold it against anyone the first time, but I will if I reply to their email and they continue to misspell it. Good luck on the second interview!

  8. bibliophile :

    I want to dress up a simple off-white cotton dress with a silk scarf/sash. Any thoughts on 1) color (I’ll link the dress itself in the comments for reference) and 2) places where I could get something like this for not too expensive.

    I’d prefer physical store recommendations rather than online (I’m planning on wearing the dress next Thursday and I’d be afraid of my online order not coming soon enough).

    TIA!

  9. judithesl :

    The other key to 80s is power dressing, especially big shoulders.

  10. What are your favorite netflix series to stream? Recently I’ve devoured Grey’s, 90210, Private Practice, No Reservations, and Weeds.

    • bibliophile :

      Currently embroiled in “White Collar”! Also just discovered “Portlandia” and it’s very entertaining. The only problem is Netflix only has 6 episodes and they’re only 20 minutes long, so it’s too easy to pound them and be done. And “X-Files” is a guilty pleasure. UST for the win.

    • I enjoyed The Killing. Not exactly brainless fun, but I thought it was really good.

      • The Killing is so good!

        Not sure if they’re on streaming, but I love other dark dramas like Breaking Bad, Justified, Deadwood, and Dexter.

      • I just started this one! It’s so surprisingly good. I keep thinking that surely just one killing can’t be the subject of the entire show, but I’m a few episodes in and it’s still really interesting!

        On the more Brain Candy side, I’ve also been streaming Suits. I love how they get all the law so very wrong (couldn’t they pay an attorney to consult?), and how the secretary Donna is always wearing $600 Hugo Boss dresses, and the eye candy, and the witty banter (full of so much very wrong law). Fun.

    • Jacqueline :

      Parenthood is surprisingly addictive!

    • PharmaGirl :

      Friday Night Lights!

      • Second this. Also right now I’m watching Drop Dead Diva which I have to take periodic breaks from whenever the legal stuff gets too stupid but is otherwise enjoyable.

        • Oh. My. Gosh. I love Friday Night Lights with all my heart. I love Coach Taylor, both Riggins brothers, Buddy Garrity, Tammy Taylor, just everybody. I wish I could watch it for the first time again. I seriously get jealous when people tell me they’re watching it for the first time.

          • And not to go on and on, but don’t not watch it because you think it’s about football and you don’t like football. It’s more — so much more — than that. Football is just the vehicle.

            I can’t believe it got canceled.

          • Seattleite :

            Both Riggins bros? Because ew, the older one is a DOOSH. But love FNL!

            Try Kidnapped (2006 series with Tim Hutton, Dana Delaney, and Jeremy Sisto). Lie to Me, In Plain Sight, The Tudors, Jericho, Firefly, McLeod’s Daughters, Upstairs Downstairs, The Buccaneers, The Forsyte Saga, Burn Notice…

            All those are streaming. If you get discs, let me know – I’ll have another list.

          • No, he’s not! I love Billy, and I will fight you to the death on that one! But seriously, he’s a good guy at heart who lets his circumstances get him in trouble. He really figures it out by the end.

          • Seattleite :

            Huh. Okay, I’ll trust you, but only because I haven’t yet watched the last season. I’ve been saving it, because as long as I don’t watch, Coach Taylor & the team are still out their doing their thing.

          • Best show ever.

          • Sniff…I miss FNL. The mandude and I watched all of the seasons on NF streaming obsessively for a few weeks and haven’t found anything else we like quite as much. It did get a little really? that just happened? soapy, but I still loved it.

            Breaking Bad is good — but I find it hard to watch since I don’t really like most of the characters. Same with The Killing.

            The downside to finding a good show is that the binge-watching gets pretty bad and we end up staying up much later than we should, because we’ll watch just one more. And it makes ‘real-time’ watching hard — what? we can’t watch the next Mad Men episode right away? No fair!

        • Yes, yes, yes. Love Friday Night Lights. To the OP – don’t be dissuaded because it looks like a football show (tho I like my football too). It’s sort of addicting.

      • Divaliscious11 :

        #texasforever

      • I watched FNL in the middle of the night while breast feeding my son. I’m planning to repeat the tradition with the next, and am so looking forward to it.

        I also love Castle.

    • Parks and Recreation (but be warned; the first five or so episodes are much worse than the rest of the series).

    • Alias! Love Jennifer Garner and her amazing array of outfits. Also LOST, which I totally got into when my daughter was born and I was home on maternity leave.

    • K... in transition :

      Parenthood

    • I like watching British shows. Sherlock Holmes, Downtown Abbey, Doc Marten…

      I can also watch episodes of Arrested Development on endless loop.

    • I am making my way through Private Practice after getting through Grey’s and Law & Order: SVU. I am now going through United States of Tara, Futurama, and Malcolm in the Middle as shorter shows that DH and I watch together. I agree with the Parks & Rec (you have to make it through season 1) and Portlandia suggestions. Better Off Ted was good while it lasted, and has Portia di Rossi if you are an Arrested Development fan (which I am). Also try Dollhouse.

    • IT Crowd! Hilarious!!

    • Barrister in the Bayou :

      Psych. It is witty and silly and I cannot stop watching it.

    • downstream :

      Breaking Bad!

    • Research, Not Law :

      We just started Workaholics. Also like Arrested Development, Firefly, and Downton Abbey. Husband likes Mythbusters and Breaking Bad.

    • I’ve gotten into Dr. Who on Netflix lately. Also loved White Collar (loved it too much – I went out and bought the season that wasn’t on Netflix!), Brothers and Sisters, and watched a bit of Felicity. Oh! And Dawson’s Creek is streaming right now (or was recently). I was a teenager when Dawson’s was on the air, so I feel very nostalgic about it, though I was horrified that the theme song has been switched.

      • I loved Dawson’s too when I was a teenager… I’m not sure how I would have handled the theme song switch!!

      • I’ve been watching Dawson’s Creek and I am so annoyed that the theme song was changed! It throws off the entire first couple of minutes back because it’s just wrong.

    • Do you have Dead Like Me on American Netflix? Dh & I really enjoyed that – dark humor. I also really enjoyed Being Erica – a Canadian drama on Canadian Netflix. If it’s available south of the border you should check it out.

      And for a funny (British) sitcom – The IT Crowd. Laughed SO HARD in some of those episodes. “If you Google ‘Google’ you’ll break the internet!” LOL!

    • Luther. It’s a British cop series starring (sigh) Idris Elba with a great supporting cast.

    • Anne Shirley :

      Drop Dead Diva. YOu think the whole dead-and-in-someone-elses-body thing will be distracting, but oddly you just sort of move on.

      • My whole family got into this show and kept on saying that “Deb” reminded them of me. When I got around to watching the show I was mortified, but now I secretly love it.

    • Omg, watch Damages! Glen Close is captivating. I watched all the available seasons in a week staying up until the wee hours of the morning to watch 8 episodes in a row. My SO was fearful. It’s THAT good!

    • Divaliscious11 :

      Luther…..

    • anon in tejas :

      Veronica Mars, My So Called Life, Nurse Jackie, Ugly Betty, Dexter, Breaking Bad, et. al. Not sure if you can get those all on streaming, but I definitely enjoyed watching all.

    • I am loving all these suggestions! I am excited to waste a lot of time watching these! I’m surprised by all the recommendations for Friday Night Lights b/c I never would have thought to watch it – I can’t stand football!

      I’ll second the recommendations for Damages, HIMYM, Dexter, and Arrested Development.

    • Numb3rs. It’s not very well known and the premise sounds a bit kooky (math genius helps his FBI agent brother solve crimes) but it’s a great show, well-written and funny. I miss it like crazy now it’s been cancelled.

  11. K... in transition :

    As requested… fill in the blank:

    “Today, my day does not s*ck because ________________.” Remember, the sillier, the better!

    Mine? Today, my day does not s*ck because I am only 1 day away from having a tie-dye party at my house!!!!!!!! (foreshadowing: the day after tomorrow, “my day will s*ck because everything I own is tie-dyed, no one stopped me, and now I need to know how to make a tie-dyed suit work for future interviews.” hehehe)

    • Seattleite :

      Today, my day does not suck because my fave bro and his darling wife are moving to their new house only 10 minutes from me (down from 4 hours away!), I have dinner all ready to feed the moving party, and I’m going on a mini-vacation one week from today.

      Also, I have some blue-cheese stuffed olives for snack.

    • My day doesn’t suck because I learned today that the rumored Trader Joe’s is actually opening about four blocks from my house in September!!! I’m quite pumped.

      • layered bob :

        yay! you will be all ready with the giant list from the weekend thread!

      • You must live really close to me (well, actually my folks-they are only a few blocks away from the Alabama location). We’re in Bellaire, but close enough. Spetember 21, baby! Yes, I’m going to the Woodlands TJs this weekend! I might be slightly overly excited about getting a Trader Joe’s.

      • Cypress and equally excited!!

    • My morning was awesome because my colleague and I drove to Home Depot and picked up a shelving unit then assembled it to store all of the crap that had gotten dumped in our staff lounge (coffee urns, champagne flutes, etc., etc.). Despite the fact that I was completely overdressed for the occasion (wearing a skirt and new shoes that cost more than the shelving unit), it was a blast. GIRL POWER!! And, the place looks cleaner and brighter already.

      • Oh! and I managed to get it together and send my Dad the adorable picture of him and me when I was three. I didn’t think I was going to be able to pull it off, but my SO cropped the picture perfectly for a 5 x 7 and I went to Walgreen’s and bought a frame late last night.

    • Another Zumba Fan :

      Today, my day does not suck because I have pole dancing class after work. I am listening to Pour Some Sugar on Me to get my mind right.

    • My day doesn’t suck because my lunch was pretty awesome. And schmoozing wasn’t as terrible as I thought it would be.

    • Today my day doesn’t suck because I received an invite to Fun Friday and I’m wearing my yoga jeans. Apparently, my new company has Fun Fridays once a month. They provide snacks and drinks and everyone socializes.

      • Yay for Bunkster’s new company being Fun! And Fooey on Bunkster’s old boss, Buh Bye!

      • Away for a while :

        Bunkster, I’ve been away for a while. Now that you’ve moved, can you give us any hints about your former office? It sounded so . . . weird. I never could figure out what you all do/did and what kind of an environment (non-profit, govt, private, large corporate) would let someone treat his staff that way.

        • It was insurance – about 1100 employees. I think the main reason he gets away with it is that his boss is in NJ, but we’re here in the Boston area. Also, we’re in IT, which is different from most departments.

          Now I work for an online gaming company. It’s definitely more fun. And the people are more like me.

    • Today my day doesn’t suck because the weather is nice outside, I like the way my hair looks today, and I’m back to regular food instead of the applesauce and ginger ale diet.

    • layered bob :

      Today, my day does not suck because I am wearing my favorite button-front (the one that fits shoulders, b00bs *and* waist, a true miracle), and I have dance class tonight with Mr. layered bob!

    • Today, my day does not s*ck because I made roasted candied pecans to send to SO. And I’m going to my nephew’s little league baseball game. And I downloaded some e-books from my library.

      • Don’t you love little league baseball? My friend’s twin grandsons (then 6) played teeball/baseball last year and I went to a bunch of their games. It’s so Bad News Bears.

        • it’s adorable. They are 9-10 yo, so just really getting the hang of it (without tees and coach/machine pitching) and the errors make me chuckle. I also like the support the kids give to their teammates. Oh, and concession stand frozen treats, like Icees!

    • My day is awesome because I have bright teal nails (OPI in Fly).

    • Today doesn’t suck because I have two episodes of The Killing, a bottle of wine, a boy I love, and a good dog waiting for me when I get home tonight.

    • Today, my day does not suck because I’m wearing new shoes, my boss took me out to lunch and was extremely complimentary about my performance, and I’m meeting a friend for dinner.

    • My day does not suck because I finally got a contract signed internally (I swear, Acquisitions like to throw up hurdles everywhere.), and so my external vendor can move forward with the one-day project, that was ordered over two months ago… and the summer interns who arrived on Monday will finally be able to do the job they were hired to do, and I no longer have to think up things for them to do while they wait.

      Also, one week until a week long road-trip with two of my sisters.

    • Amy Hertz :

      Today, my day does not s*ck because the POTUS will be at the WTC tomorrow so I can work from home to avoid the crazy commute.

      • One time the old POTUS did an event right outside my office building in DC, so they had to shut it down for the day so that snipers and stuff could take over, I guess. It was awesome because I think we just got a straight day off. It was my favorite thing he ever did.

      • Anne Shirley :

        that must be why there were so many security officers on my commute. thanks for the heads up!

    • Today does not s*ck because 1)I am wearing a new dress I really like with a blazer that didn’t fit until I put on some weight, but is now an avaiable wardrobe piece that I also really like; and 2) I have been asking for particular kind of file at work for a few months now, and today *two* turned up on my desk! PLUS my move from inside (no window) office to outside office is finally simmering along. Yay!

    • Research, Not Law :

      My day doesn’t suck because I discovered that Old Navy’s fold-down waist knit skirt somehow does look good enough to wear to work (casual office).

      • omg, it really does! and it is like wearing pajamas, that skirt is the best thing in the whole wide world.

      • anon in tejas :

        what do you wear it with? I have a black one and navy one that I should really consider wearing on our casual/jean fridays.

    • Former MidLevel :

      Today, my day does not s*ck because I just got my hair cut. :)

    • Senior Attorney :

      My day does not suck because there are good work changes afoot, I have tap dancing class tonight, and I am rocking my leopard print pencil skirt. :)

    • We had delicious cupcakes at a meeting, which was perfect because I had skipped lunch and gone for a walk and so was starving by 2:30.

    • just Karen :

      Today my life doesn’t suck because (thanks to a fellow Corporette who posted about a Relpax discount program) I filled a prescription that normally costs me $100 for just $10 :) Also, I have a cleared-out flower bed a a flat of Dianthus to plant waiting at home.

    • Today doesn’t s*ck because it’s the first time I’ve worn heels since I broke my toe last month and I was so over wearing the same two pairs of flats to work!

    • Mine isn’t silly but…today doesn’t s*ck because its the lazy day of our vacation and I just spent an hour and a half reading outside in the sunshine in the mountains of Vermont. And now I’m snuggling with my exhausted doggy.

      Also I have another job interview tomorrow…but of course that’s the Schrodinger’s Cat of s*ckage.

      • Kontraktor :

        Do you ever feel like you could write a book on awkward interview experiences? I feel I have had every one you could possibly think of. Some are so absurd that they seem made up, and yet they are 100% real. No concrete advice to offer, just sympathizing on hoq the endless string of IVs is getting ridiculous for many reasons.

        • Sydney Bristow :

          You had one yesterday, right? How did it go?

          • Kontraktor :

            Just more bizarre things happening and more bizarre requests. Apparently I also might be overqualified even though I don’t even meet the minimum years of experience listed in the job description? I don’t get it. I’m not holding my breath. I have another with a different company in a few days, so fingers crossed that one works out or goes better… man. Girl can’t catch a break. But, at least my day does not s*ck because I have one more coming up!

        • Trust me, those of us on the hiring end have some crazy stories, too!

      • Job Huntress :

        Mine isn’t silly either -my day doesn’t suck because both I and my Dear Young Buck have interviews for jobs we’re actually qualified for!

    • Today, my day doesn’t s*ck because I had lunch with a friend.

    • My day does not s*ck because I get to meet Dan Savage tonight! So. Excited. You guise.

    • Today, my day does not s*ck because I found out at lunch that Manolo Blahniks are super super comfortable but Christian Louboutins just do not work on my feet (and I maintained enough will power to not spend any money At.All despite the awesome shoe sale I went to).

    • Late addition

      My day didn’t s*ck because I had an ultrasound and saw the fetus (whom we refer to as “the blueberry and my son wants to name “son’s name2″) sucking his/her thumb. And I made it through a deposition, which was stressful but now over!

      • I had my ultrasound yesterday too! Did you do the nuchal scan? I did and my life doesn’t suck because everything looked good :)

        • Romans et al. :

          My yesterday wasn’t sucky because …

          after I tripped outside the courthouse and tore a hole in my fav. palazzo pants and had bad scrapes on both knees, the folks at the security check and the window for jury duty were so nice and spent time finding gauze pads and paper tape for me! The bailiff offered to call the paramedics! I would have said yes if they hadn’t had gauze pads.

          then, I was panelled but not chosen for a crim. court case on a DWI with only the cop as the witness and no blood alcohol test info (as a psychologist, someone always wants me and the other side doesn’t – grin).

          today (Th), I have the day “off” as a precaution on being panelled. Breakfast with great friend and our appts. never match up to see each other (she’s a teacher)! Returning expensive dress for formal wedding to Nordies as my vintage one picked out by the bride is >50% less. Wow, errands, fun convo, a treat despite sore and messy knees.

  12. bibliophile :

    Today my day does not suck because my Pandora station has been spitting out winners all day. I haven’t downthumbed a song since I started it up.
    This is rather epic for me because I have a habit of creating stations with warring influences that turn out to be not quite what I was hoping for. But my 80s and alt rock station has stayed pure to its roots.

  13. Can anyone suggest good a good shampoo, conditioner and any styling products that can be used on Keratin-treated hair (sodium/sulfate free)? TIA!!

    • I really like Loreal Everpure. The rosemary juniper shampoo smells awesome. It’s definitely sulfate free, but not sure about sodium free.

      • This. L’oreal Everpure shampoo is the best, especially on highlighted hair (and hair that is lighter than the natural color). I am very happy with the way that my hair stays natural even after many weeks. Shampoo every other day

    • They have been recommended by a couple of people on here already, but I love the Trader Joe’s sulfate free shampoo and silicone free conditioners. They are $3 a pop, and TJ’s takes back anything you don’t like, even if it has been opened already.

  14. just don't take my coffee :

    Thanks to everyone for advice last week re: safely navigating job offer/drug test. Turns out it was a 90-day hair test so I declined the offer.

    BUT. I recommended one of my friends who’s been looking to leave her company and she was offered the job! So I’m happy that she gets it even if I can’t right now. And, this job-out-of-the-blue opportunity made me realize that until we stop the drug war nonsense, I’m probably better off without my (very) occasional mj…

    • interesting. after reading your first paragraph I was going to ask if it had made you reconsider your usage.

    • I made that decision when I went to law school. I think the laws are stupid, but it’s not worth the risk. The worst case scenario of losing a job, not being able to get a new one, defaulting on student loans, and ending up homeless, just isn’t worth it. (Yes, this is how my mind works. I’m pretty risk averse.)

      • wrong name! :

        I do the same thing in my head, but instead of ending up homeless, I end up driving a UPS truck. To which my helpful husband replies, “Yeah, but UPS drivers can make like $40k-$50k per year! And they have tuition reimbursement! And [more good things about driving a UPS truck]”

        So, wait, the UPS truck driver option is actually a good thing? SIGH.

        • I think UPS tests much more than the legal world. Not just at the outset, but randomly, too. Frankly, at least, there, it’s arguably relevant.

          • wrong name! :

            Oh, I’m not worried about the drug issue, I don’t do any drugs. Mostly just the sentiment that I also play out the worst-case-scenario in my head, and it ends with me driving a UPS truck. But, apparently, drug use or not, I would have a hard time getting a job as a UPS driver, according to the comments below :)

          • just don't take my coffee :

            even if I stop smoking altogether, I still “do drugs”… employers would let me come to work jittery with caffeine, hung-over, or totally out-of-it on my heavy-duty migraine medication, but heaven forbid I take a hit while on vacation…

        • Senior Attorney :

          I’m almost certain UPS does drug tests. ;)

          • I know for a fact that UPS drivers (even those not subject to DOT drug testing rules) are tested, randomly, post-accident etc.. But they easily make $50,000, and potentially much more depending on overtime. Trade-offs . . .

          • UPS drivers make on average, much closer to like 80k

        • DC Kolchitongi :

          You wouldn’t be able to get a job as a UPS driver. You have to start in the package distribution centers (which is HARD physical labor) and work your way up to driver. My brother once worked at a package center to pay the bills while he was waiting for another job to start… he said that in his area (semi-rural North Carolina) there’s a 10-year waiting list to be a driver.

          • wrong name! :

            Yes, a friend of ours in college worked at a distribution center, and he was skinny and hungry all the time. No matter how much he ate, he couldn’t pack on the pounds because of his exercise at his job.

        • You have to work as a UPS truck loader (often a night shift) for years before you can drive a truck (plus I think you have to progress through load-shift manager and maybe another stage). I know this because my brother worked for them for something like 4 years and never got enough seniority to drive a truck (he didn’t really want to, but that’s another issue). Depends on the locale of course, but its not as easy as being like…hey I want to drive for UPS, its a very in demand job because the pay is good and the benefits are excellent.

        • I’m glad I’m not the only one imagining a disaster scenario. My fallback job if everything goes to hell is stocking produce at Whole Foods. I always think how satisfying it would be to stack up all that beautiful fruit in a perfect pyramid.

          I wonder if Whole Foods drug tests?

          • Yay, I’m not alone either! Mine is Trader Joe’s. Maybe they support drug use!

    • Super anon for this :

      I’m sure glad drug testing is super rare in Canada. As far as I know, it only happens to people with jobs that would be dangerous if they were intoxicated in some way.

      • just don't take my coffee :

        I naively thought it was rare in the U.S. too… since in a decade+ of work I’ve never been subject to testing. As commenters pointed out last week, it is in fact super common. Something to look forward to in my retirement I guess :-) hopefully by then mj will be decriminalized…

        • Sydney Bristow :

          My experience has been that with the exception of potentially dangerous jobs the more “blue collar” a job is, the more likely they are to test and the more “white collar” a job is, the less likely they are to test. I was tested for fast food, retail, and receptionist positions but never have been for legal positions. My parents are a doctor and a nurse and neither of them have been tested.

          There is a computer tech company where I am from that started doing random testing and wound up firing a large percentage of its employees, so they stopped doing it. The company learned that, in my hometown at least, computer programmers were likely to smoke but were still able to get their work done well so it wasn’t worth testing.

          • I worked for a medical device company, but since some of the devices had drug coating, lab employees (at least) had to get baseline blood tests, followed by follow up tests every 3 years or so, just to check exposure.

            And there was a pee drug test, I believe.

          • long time lurker :

            Financial services companies especially in compliance test.

        • My mother was a huge hippie, and then went on to spend 20 years in the military completely sober (? is that the word?). As she neared her retirement, the thing she most looked forward to partaking again. Now, whenever I visit her, I drink and she smokes and we have a grand ol’ time.

      • Equity's Darling :

        Yeah, between our de facto decriminalization in most provinces and our health care (and many many other things)…I thank my lucky stars that I live here pretty frequently when I read this website.

        BUT, we don’t have a lot of awesome stores, which does make me pretty sad. I’m really looking forward to Ann Taylor.

        • Winnipeg is getting Banana Republic this summer. FINALLY.

          I do miss for the shopping, though I really don’t miss not having health care. I’m already squeezed enough paying off loans! Oh Canada, I *do* stand on guard for thee!

          • Equity's Darling :

            At least BR would ship to you in Winnipeg! Ann Taylor doesn’t even ship to Canada! I’m mostly excited for their Toronto stores because I hope it means they’ll start shipping to us elsewhere in Canada at least…

        • Yessssss to Ann Taylor in TO!

      • Rural Juror :

        Not that rare! All the oil companies do it, even for non-”risky” positions like an engineer with a desk job

        • Equity's Darling :

          PNG companies are an anomaly for three reasons

          1) the head offices of PNG companies in Canada are primarily located in one of the provinces that has not really moved towards de facto decriminalization, so testing is not as odd, given the provincial climate;
          2) PNG companies often have very strong ties to the US, and other jurisdictions, where testing is more common; and
          3) the nature of the oil sands is such that drug testing is really justified for the vast majority of employees, so, the companies tend to run with it.

          The statement of it being very rare still stands in comparison to the US.

      • Yeah, I had to do a drug test to be an accountant at my oil & gas company in Canada. I’m not sure they’re that ‘super rare’ north of the border! Of course, my company is world wide, so maybe it’s a global policy. But, there’s a private lab that must make money doing them, so who knows?

        Anyway, I don’t even regularly ingest caffiene, so the drug test thing was 100% a non-issue for me.

    • I wonder what the consequences of that would be in some employment circles. If someone declined a drug test, instead of “occasional mj user” would they think you’re (or any hypothetical person who declined a drug test) a total drug addict? Not sure how tight-knit your industry is…. I’d be interested in what hiring mangers think.

      • I would think declining the drug test would be a major red flag. Im assuming the OP made it much more vague than that

      • just don't take my coffee :

        yeah, I declined the whole job offer, not just the drug test :-)

        I didn’t want to be in a position of accepting the job and then failing the test, even though my use is so light that it maybe wouldn’t even have shown up on the test. And I don’t really feel comfortable lying about behavior that I’m not actually ashamed of. I’ve never had to lie about it before and didn’t want to start now.

        The job would have been a really great step in my career but there were a few drawbacks about the position, so I could honestly say that I didn’t think it would be a good fit for me right now and I’d like to continue to develop X at my current company (which is also true) “but my colleague Y might be a good fit for the position.” (And she is!)

        • anon for this :

          For those in similar positions, you can buy hair tests on the web and get confidential results online pretty quickly. For those of you with light or non-recent usage who are looking for a level of confidence, I recommend it (no, not me, but close friend). Also interesting fact for men – if your head hair is too short or you are bald, they will use body hair – which grows MUCH more slowly than head hair and therefore keeps a much longer record. I think another big user of these kits are people who suspect drug use in a child or spouse.

    • I don’t understand why one (not just OP, but people in general) wouldn’t take the test and see what the results are. Is there some sort of risk if you “fail” the test? I can’t imagine what it would be.

      • Blackball from joining the company and its affiliates in the future, most likely.

      • just don't take my coffee :

        In my situation, they wanted me to start in early July, so I would have had just enough time to give appropriate notice to my current job (2-3 weeks), and probably wouldn’t have gotten the results of the test until I had started the job. If I failed, I would have lost the new job and have already quit the old job, plus burned some serious bridges. If I really hated my current job, I maybe would have risked it, but I don’t dislike it at all.

        • That makes sense to me (more so than the blackball issue, which I don’t think is that huge of a risk unless you work in a tiny industry and this is your only opportunity for advancement). I also think it’s great that your matchmaking worked out.

    • I hope you get caught.

      • Really? What would the consequences be of being caught (presumably you mean by the police) smoking a small (i.e., less-than-intent-to-distribute) amount of marijuana? Possibly a small fine? That’s like saying, “I hope you get a speeding ticket,” except that at least when someone speeds, s/he is putting others at risk (arguably).

        I hope marijuana is legalized (and this is from someone who smoked once, hated it, and would never do it again).

        • Unless I am not understanding there is still no accurate way of testing a driver to determine if they are under the influence of marijuana on an immediate basis. No way of testing immediately either if the combined effects of marijuana and alcohol make a person unable to drive. It was my understanding that this is the main reason marijuana continues to be an illegal drug. I find this to be a perfectly legitimate reason.

        • Actually, to throw it out there I wouldn’t care if pot was legalized if distribution was controlled and those who opted into getting some were denied drivers licenses and harshly punished for driving without licenses.

          • Equity's Darling :

            So…people who partake shouldn’t be allowed licences at all?

            Like it’s any worse than people who drive while drunk? If you haven’t used in the past like..12 hrs, why should you be restricted from driving?

        • Its criminal in plenty of states

        • There’s no accurate way to test to see if marijuana usage contributed to driving impairment because there are no studies that show that a certain level of marijuana/THC in the blood really impairs driving.

          Scientists haven’t been able to study this because marijuana is illegal.

          If you really want driving to be safer, eh, then marijuana should be legal.

      • I hope you are as sad in real life as you are on this site.

      • “Wow.”

        - Carolyn Hax

      • Alanna of Trebond :

        So, I definitely don’t want the OP to get caught (by anyone), but I am a little bit confused as to why people are so pro-weed usage? I could see making it legal for medical usage, as some states have done (it is no more harmful than say, certain painkillers), but here are people who are not using it medically and are using it recreationally?

        • I think the point for many people is that MJ is no more harmful to a person’s health than tobacco and no more likely than alcohol to cause them to (1) be involved in an MVA or (2) commit a crime. While it is true that there is no breathalyzer equivalent for MJ usage, that could be said for many drugs, both legal and illegal. People involved in accidents are going to be subject to blood tests for drug use regardless of the drug. Although I do not smoke anything (my allergies and asthma make me reluctant to put ANY smoke in my lungs), I think it is hypocritical in the extreme that tobacco and alcohol are legal while MJ is not and an indication of the power of the tobacco and alcohol lobbies rather than the result of any logical analysis of risk.

        • Considering you can be a pot user and also an Olympic gold medalist, CEO of one of the world’s biggest companies, a globe-trotting television personality with your own show on PBS, or, you know, President of the United States… I can’t see why the burden is on legalization advocates to show why it should be legal. I think the burden should be on the anti-drug folks to make any coherent case whatsoever for criminalizing it.

          But anyway, for a non-snarky response, check out norml (dot) org or mpp (dot) org.

      • just don't take my coffee :

        Thanks, eh, but my getting caught is unlikely since I can count on one hand the number of times I’ve smoked in a region where pot is truly criminal. I have family in Canada and the Netherlands and have smoked there the most (although not recently).

        As I said in the original post, if I worked for a company with a drug-free policy I’d abide by those rules. I never have, never signed a covenant for school, never lied about my mj use and never driven while intoxicated by anything.

        I think current U.S. drug laws are inconsistent and enforced inconsistently to the point of being immoral, but I know the rules for new jobs now and I’ll play by them when necessary. Isn’t that one of the big C0 rp0 re tte tenets? Know the rules/know your office.

  15. Seattleite :

    I am seriously lusting after the Steven by Steve Madden ‘France’ leather tote. In orange.

    I never wear orange, and because (blueish) red looks good on me, I wear red a lot.

    Someone, please tell me that if I actually bought this tote, I’d never ever use it. Or would look a hot mess if I did.

    (curse you, smart banner ads!)

    • Merabella :

      I suggested that bag for someone a while ago and it has been haunting my dreams ever since. It is gorgeous. I too cannot wear orange because it makes me look like I have jaundice, but I think the bag would be the perfect way to wear it!

      I’m on a shopping ban, so please, for me… buy the bag.

    • SoCal Gal :

      Orange and red are great together. Just look at a sunset or a nectarine. Get the bag!

      I have an orange bag that I wear with everything. Except black, on account of that “Happy Halloween” comment I got from a stranger on the street one time.

  16. [using a new name just for this post] Has anyone in the hive ever done a trial separation? What was the result? How did you do it? My hubby has a lot of problems (chronic pain + prescribed heavy narcotics, bad work situation) that are making our home life pretty miserable. This weekend he was mean to our son and it made me get to the “enough” stage. He claims that everything will be better when he gets a new job, but I am not so sure and don’t want to wait it out. I suggested marriage counseling and/or him moving out while he gets his sh*t together. He doesn’t think we need counseling, but is willing to look into moving out for a while. Advice?

    • Anon 4 This :

      AFT, could you talk with his doctor about manageing or changing the pain meds? My MiL (although generally a bit off her rocker on a baseline level) is on similar doses of heavy narcotic painkillers, and for awhile it was really, really messing with her mind. I think she was even stealing things for awhile, along with having fits of delusional paranoia, emotional outburts, etc. It was pretty bad. Eventually she spoke to her doctor and he changed up the pain meds and put her on a different routine. She is still a bit off but at least she isn’t engaging in destructive, self harming behavior and the new round of meds has helped. Also, a big part of my MiL’s problem is that she refuses to consider more pallative therapies for her pain management such as accupuncture, physical therapy, light exercise, and the like. I think that for some people, these pain management strategies can be beneficial. Perhaps your husband’s doctor might be able to suggest some of these approaches as well?

      Are you sure some of your husband’s problems aren’t related to the medication or just the general state of his medical needs? I really feel you should try to get him to reevaluate his treatment regiment, if possible, before separating. Additionally you could look into some therapy/counceling for yourself or hopefully for the both of you, perhaps looking for somebody who specializes in dealing with couples where one has a medical issue/one person is a primary caregiver.

    • Pain meds and chronic pain in general can cause changes in people’s personalities. It stressful and scary and also narcotics can mess with your head. If he’s not seeing a pain specialist in addition to his regular doctor (someone who can help regulate the pain meds and also lead him to alternative treatments) he should be. Also, the “lets just wait for a new job” thing is just hard, because there’s always that “next thing” you’re waiting for.

      But, if he’s seriously willing to move out but not willing to try therapy, then that’s not a good sign. Time to sit down and really categorize the problems and try to address them. But you can’t force someone into therapy. Perhaps try to come up with a list of things you can BOTH do that could make improvements now?

    • Seattleite :

      I did a trial separation. As it turned out, I felt a lot of relief immediately when he moved out, and although he claimed he wanted to save the relationship, he wasn’t taking any of the active and completely necessary steps to do so.

      We waited almost two years to file for divorce. That separation gave us and our kids time to get used to the idea of a divorce, and also (I think) helped us realize that we really didn’t miss each other when he moved out.

      I had a lot of guilt and shame over wanting a divorce, and I was afraid of the effect on the kids. The separation eased that immensely – because it was reversible – and helped me see that I really had done everything I could do save the marriage.

    • Blonde Lawyer :

      From the family law standpoint – if he moves out, he still gets time with the kid, except now, you are not around to supervise it. If he lives in the same town as you, and files for shared rights, you might have to share 50/50. If you are concerned about his behavior and need to monitor him around the kid, separating would probably be the worst way to achieve that unless his behavior was bad enough to warrant supervised visits or severed rights (which are extremely hard to get in some states.)

      If he agrees he is making everyone’s life miserable and is willing to live separately, maybe frame it as furthering your marriage by living apart instead of a trial separation leading to divorce. In other words, you are just a married couple that doesn’t want to live together.

      Best of luck!

    • Thanks for the input so far. A little more detail — he has been on these painkillers + an antidepressant since an accident ~5 years ago. Yes, they have changed his personality and I have gone to countless doctor’s appointments with him to try to find a solution. At the end of the day, he doesn’t think he can survive without them.

      I have been seeing a therapist for about 18 months to help deal with all of this and my son has been seeing someone for a few months. My daughter seems to be doing OK.

      The bottom line is that I am not happy, my husband is not happy and I think our kids are affected by that. My husband does not want to see that he has anything to do with it, preferring to blame the circumstances. I am trying to find something that says “WE HAVE TO ADDRESS THIS” because I don’t want to live like this anymore. I don’t fear for my kids when he is with them, but I want there to be a bigger upside than that.

      sorry for the novel . . .

      • You seem like you need permission to do this – TAKE IT! Definitely move ahead and do what you need to do.

        You seem smart, measured and you are thinking of your kids interests. I also have to say WELL DONE (ellen style) for getting your kids into therapy. So many people don’t and then wonder why their children struggle. Frankly, your kids are the kind of children who will probably be fine in a divorce because you are taking care of their emotional health.

        And also, to disagree with blondelaywer, separating will allow you to model a happy healthy home to your kids, even if they don’t get one with their father. But this is enough of a foundation. They know what a stress free home life feels like even if they don’t get it all the time. Sticking around to run interference so that everyone is miserable just produces kids who will look to reproduce this dynamic. I generally think it’s a poor idea and have rarely seen it work out well. Kids have issues with both parents – one for the behavior and the other for failure to protect.

      • I was 10 when my parents finally divorced. They should have done so much earlier.

        Staying together “for the kids” is way worse for them than being separate, happy, and being able to be a good parent.

  17. ChocCityB&R :

    Ladies, this threadjack is a cry for help! How does one cure severe procrastination? For the last week and a half, I have been stuck on a project, and I feel there is no end in sight. Every time I try to work, I get extremely bored and want to do something else (like read c*rpor*tte or shop online). I’m a bit ahead in my work, so I hope this is the only reason that I can’t seem to get motivated, and it’s not something more sinister…

    • Oh hey, me too! I think my problem is that I am stuck on a particularly boring project, though. Can you try making a schedule for yourself (i.e., from 10-11 AM I will work on this portion of the project, then from 11:00-11:15 I will check e-mail/eat a snack/check this blog, etc.)? I find that sometimes you have to s*ck it up and just get started in the absence of motivation, which is easier said than done.

      • ChocCityB&R :

        January, the suck it up and do the damn thing approach has worked for me in the past. But for some reason, I’m giving myself a free pass lately…

        Maybe I just need to end that, or maybe I need to go get some yellow cake batter fro-yo and call my best friend…

    • dude im right there. but im actually a bit behind. im going to read suggestions tonight and try to come in renewed tomorrow!

      • also I think i might be addicted to the internet. not sarcastic, im worried that i really am. any suggestions for breaking the cycle?

        • ChocCityB&R :

          There are apps that force you to not use your computer during certain times of the day. I haven’t hit rock bottom yet, so I’m going no where near those apps. I need my daily (hourly, minutely) internet fix.

          • lawsuited :

            I think I may be mildly addicted to the internet too (in that I am still able to function but I know my productivity is being seriously hindered). I’m not really sure how to deal with it either, but I’ve sworn off online shopping for the month, so I’ve stopped visiting shopping websites seeing as I just find tons of things I want but can’t have. Just cutting out the shopping websites has cut down my usage pretty drastically. (Good sign or bad sign?)

    • That totally happens to me. I just wasted almost 2 days because there was nothing pressing on my desk. Then the pile got big enough to start freaking me out, and voila! It’s almost gone today because I had to get my butt in gear!

    • Cornellian :

      I sometimes use online timers if I’m desperate. I have to focus for 5 or 10 minutes, and then I can look at something. Repeat, repeat, repeat.

    • You might try breaking it down into 20-minute chunks. Save your “distractions” for rewards for doing 20 minutes of work.

    • I’ve been in the same boat this week, drafting a document sentence by painful sentence. What has helped is closing all my internet windows. If I leave them open it’s too easy to flip back over. Also, if I going to procrastinate on a particular project, I try to at least procrastinate productively, doing smaller assignments or little, annoying administrative tasks. That way my time is freed up when I actually get the motivation to work on the big project.

    • I am right there with you. I need to draft a summary judgment brief, and I just can’t make myself do it. I’ve got all the research and lots of notes, now I just need to somehow assemble a persuasive brief from all of that. Instead, I’m on corporette. I’ve had a horrible cold all week, which has totally zappped my motivation. And I have 10 days till the deadline, but still, what the heck am I going to bill for today?

    • The last few weeks have been painful for me as well. No fires to put out and boring work means I wait and wait and wait until there are fires, since that makes the boring work marginally interesting.

      Maybe time for a real day off or mini-vacation? Or promise yourself one once this is all over.

  18. NeedsaHug :

    Someone how I filed a an order with my clients name spelt wrong. Yes, the client read and signed the supporting affidavit and didn’t notice. The court clerk did not care. The judge did not care.

    Now I have to go fix it. Someone ehug me before I crumble and die of new lawyer shame.

    • A friend filed documentation with USCIS for a client which either included the wrong name spelling or birthday (forget which) resulting in him being issues an incorrect card or form or something. Trust me, at court you just file an amended order or whatever, with USCIS you call 15 people and then find out its going to take months and cost you money.

      So…at least that didn’t happen. Ehugs!

    • Maddie Ross :

      Maybe I’m just lazy, but why do you have to fix it? If it’s part of an on-going case and it’s a typo, I would probably just let it be. But that’s just me.

      • Me too.

        • NeedsaHug :

          I am just one of those people who go insane over tiny mistakes. I have a spare shirt in my closet in case the one I’m wearing looks crumpled by the middle of the day.

          • A Litigator. :

            Honestly, if that’s the only reason you’re changing it (because you’re a perfectionist), I would consider whether it’s really a good use of your time and the client’s resources to spend the time correcting it. If there’s really a chance of confusion or a question of enforceability, that’s one thing. If it’s you not being able to handle the typo, you may just need to unclench a bit.

          • For your own mental health, let that tendency go now. A healthy fear of mistakes is good. Obsession over tiny mistakes is bad for your long-term mental stability, especially once you build up a giant case load. Because you WILL make mistakes.

    • I once filed a brief with the Third Circuit of the Untied States of America. Not one person noticed (so far as I know).

  19. Excuse me, but FOOEY!!!!!!!!

    It’s just that kinda week.

  20. I’m wondering what the standard procedure is for references. I’ve got my first post-graduation interview with a firm scheduled and I don’t have references prepared. I’m sure my previous two internship supervising attorneys would give me positive reviews, but I haven’t sent them an email asking them to be a reference for this specific interview. Do employers even ask for references in the first round of interviews? How does this normally work? Do I just ask my references to generally be my reference? I think that’s what I did for my legal internships and those employers never contacted my references.

    • You should contact them now. They might ask for them in the first interview, and you don’t want to be unprepared. In fact, I don’t know if it’s different in law, but usually it’s not a good idea to give a prospective employer the name of a reference until after you have their permission to use them.

      I would email them before your interview, tell them you have this interview for this job and you are wondering if you can use them as a reference. And that they might be contacting you as early as [date of your interview]. Then you have your bases covered if they want them right away, if they don’t end up asking for your references, then you didn’t need them and oh well. But as the Girl Scouts would say, it’s better to be prepared.

    • It differs, but I’m doing so many interviews — I just have asked my references to generally be references and then I shoot them an e-mail if the place asks for references or indicates they may check references.

      Some places ask for references at the first interview and some don’t. I’d get them arranged though, if you’re applying to things.

    • Seattleite :

      He is trying to turn you into someone you are not. Be true to yourself and what you want now. You get only one life; you must live it according the Real You’s values, not according to what Hypothetical You *might* want.

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