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Updated: Sep 5, 2022 83 Comments · by

A Note on the Comments

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Hi, guys. As you may have noticed in the comments on this morning's workwear report, readers are having a great discussion about the comments. I'm writing this post to a) draw the attention of everyone to that discussion (find it here), and b) let you know that I am paying attention and reading every comment about the comments section. We've been through a number of commenting lulls in the past 10 years, and I've come to view them as a regular and expected part of doing business. That said, we are in a general period of reassessment for the commenting section and the moderation queue, so if there are sites you'd like me to look at that have a robust comment section, I'm happy to add them to the ones I'm studying. (Note that as a WordPress site we are somewhat limited in the comments section possibilities, and a lot of other sites may be running Jetpack, Disqus, or other plugins that aren't ideal for us — but I'm still happy to take a look at other sites you recommend.) I'd be grateful if you'd comment on this post with a) URLs of sites with commenting sections you love, and b) the reasons you LIKE them. 

To be totally clear on the system we're testing now: If you use a consistent email address*, once you have had ONE comment approved, you can avoid the moderation queue — as long as you keep using that consistent email address, you can change your username for subsequent comments. Note that you MUST fill out the username and you MUST check the box to save the info in your browser. See a screenshot below… For example, you can post on Monday as “Anonymous / [email protected]” but on Tuesday post as “Anonmama / [email protected]. We ask that it be a “real” email address (not something like [email protected] or [email protected]) and that you not create different usernames within the same thread to create the appearance of agreement. Again, you will not be signed up for a newsletter when you provide your email address, and all information is subject to the Corporette Privacy Policy.

*Note & Update! If your IP address was previously flagged manually by the editors as belonging for violating our prior commenting policy, until just now you would have STILL gotten caught in the moderation queue even if you followed the above system. At a commenter's suggestion I've DELETED all IP addresses from the moderation queue, so effectively we're starting with a blank slate as of 11/14/18 at 1:40 PM ET. 

As a reminder: Yes, the comments policy is changing, in part due to trolls and other bad actors who were attracted/enabled by our previous policies. (Most of the worst comments were deleted before they ever made it “live,” so the situation may not have seemed that bad from a reader perspective.) If it works out, this current system we're testing would be ideal because it would allow trusted commenters to get through without moderation yet still stay anonymous, while stopping trolls and others who use anonymizers to get around having their IP flagged.

As always, thank you guys for reading!

About Kat

Kat Griffin is the founder, publisher, and editor-in-chief of Corporette. You can read more about her here.

Comments

  1. Anonymous

    I mean, I’m in perma moderation from my usual IP address because occasionally I post as Shots Shots Shots. Which, I happen to think people used to like. Maybe wipe the slate clean since you’re making so many other changes?

  2. nutella

    I guess I don’t like to have to include my email address, which is the only reason why this is a board I c0mment on – the places I visit I just read because I don’t like having to include an email address. If that means my comments take longer, I guess I’m just going to have to live with that… or just do what I’ve been doing — not really c0mment much. Or maybe until I crack one day and create a burner to use. I thought it used to be by IP address? (Won’t that be a better safeguard against tr0lls anyway?)

    The font is too thin for me, though, and it just makes reading more than a couple of lines not very fun and I come here to read the c0mments! (And I’m young-ish and wear computer glasses!) I wish I could highlight all and either Bold the font or choose a different one. (Weirdly, even this font as I type in the box is smaller and a tad easier to read than the ones above that are actually p0sted.) Maybe try Helvetica? Georgia?

    • coffee

      I made up an email address and seem to be getting through faster. Maybe just make up the first thing that comes to mind and see if it helps. I, too, am not willing to use a real email address, but do enjoy posting occasionally.

    • Anonymous

      Basically this. I accept that I’ll be stuck in moderation longer if I don’t use an email and I’m fine with that but I’m reading/commenting less because I dislike the thin font and the collapse/expand comments function doesn’t work for me anymore in chrome.

      • Anonymous

        +1

        It doesn’t look as good, it’s not as easy to read, and it doesn’t inspire discussion like it used to.

        • Kat G

          I’m curious on the “the site and comments section doesn’t inspire discussion the way it used to” comments — can you elaborate? are you talking about the posts (which generally deal with evergreen topics so may be repetitive if you’ve been reading for 10 years) or the comment section itself? can you give me an example of a post or comment section that you really felt “inspired discussion”? Not trying to be snarky just trying to understand.

          For example I suppose we could come up with “fun” topics or inane questions to “inspire discussion” in the comments — “pick 2 things you MUST eat every day for the rest of your life! GO!” — but that takes time/energy that would distract from other content. (For example, take a look at Obsessee’s instragram account.)

          • AnonAtty

            I think anon at 2:21 meant the visual appearance is what is driving down comments. Not her, though, so I may be misinterpreting.

          • Anon at 2:07

            The font is so large and hard to read that it’s hard to follow the comments and subcomments threads – you have to scroll way up to reread what something was a response to if you want to reread the context of a reply. This is especially problematic on a phone. I almost never read while waiting in line in a store anymore or any other time I’d be likely to check while on my phone. It’s only bearable to read on desktop and even then it’s so much whitespace my eyes get tired and I’m young.

          • Cat

            I also miss the denser layout. It was easier to follow threads and see more on each screen without scrolling. This redesign looks very “clean” but would prefer a font with a bit more weight to it. It does look trendier this way, but most blogs have comment sections comprised solely (or mostly) of people saying banal things to try to get traffic to their own blogs as opposed to a conversation among readers. As far as a specific recommendation, Ask a Manager’s comment section seems pretty good to me.

            With the expanded layout, the “collapse/expand” feature is even more important, but it takes me at least two clicks, if not three, to get it to toggle on or off (whether at the top to apply to all, or below an individual comment chain.) I am using the latest version of Chrome. It also only shows the number of immediate-response comments (as opposed to comments further nested in), making it appear when scrolling that a topic is not active / has no new comments since the last visit.

          • LAJen

            I third needing a heavier font. This one appears almost grey on my screen because it is so thin, and it’s so thin and so hard to read that I have been coming here less frequently to read the comments! Please, please use a font that is thicker/darker so that it is readable.

            I also much preferred the previous format where I could read more because the text was denser, but the biggest issue is that this font is incredibly difficult to read.

      • nutella

        I actually do like the new *look* but this page is a much more reading-intensive s1te that I visit that the font is not really a good fit. (When you think about the volume, it really adds up to a lot of ‘pages’ if it were a Word doc and that’s too much to read with a font that’s not made for that heavy reading.) If it were a photo-heavy bl0g with the text limited to one-line captions, it would be a different story, but point-blank if the reading is not easy on the eyes, I am less inclined to want to do it. (My job is reading things on the computer all day anyway and I really enjoyed the content here and came here as a little oasis.) Given that the traffic/volume of c0mments seemed to drop off not randomly but pretty much around the re-design, I figured that others felt the same, plus frustration with the time-delay. More eye strain = less reading = less engagement /c0mmenting… which leads to less content to read and c0mment on.

        Ok, need to go re-focus my eyes now on something far in the distance!

        • Vicky Austin

          I definitely agree that the font makes it harder to stay and read awhile. Wasn’t the old font Georgia? It doesn’t need to go back to that exactly, but I do think something thicker or serif-ed would help!

          • Ms B

            Judge Easterbrook would say Palantino Linotype. I do not think that is necessary, but a tiny bit of seriffing would help the read a lot.

        • anon

          Yeah, I like sans-serif fonts for headlines, but they are really hard on the eyes for longer blocks of text. Especially online.

    • Kat G

      See my notes to AIMS, nutella — I’m always happy when someone has used a consistent username over the years because it helps me to “know” you. Unfortunately WordPress won’t let me “remember” a username or IP address, it has to be an email address with the username field filled in. To be totally clear, though, there is no confirmation email or anything — you could, for example, use [email protected] and it would work and you could get through the modQ. Just sayin’. ;)

  3. Lilly

    With all due respect, I don’t think it’s a random lull in the comments. The conversations now are not as dynamic and involved. I’m not as interested as I used to be.

    For that reason, I am not only less likely to comment, I’m less likely to click on the s!te to see what’s new. The chances of me providing my highly identifiable email address are nil. I haven’t set up a dummy email address and I’m not sure I want to.

    You don’t need to adjust things just for the commenter community. It looks like there has been a real fall off in commenting. I suspect a fall off in s!te visitation will follow if it hasn’t occurred already. Adjustment would be not so much to accommodate the commenter community as it would be to ensure the robust health of your brand and this s!te. I’d love to see that not only because I enjoy the conversations here, but also because I wish you success.

  5. anonypotamus

    This is not a comments comment, but one quick redesign note: is there any way to add the “next post” and “previous post” links at the bottom of the comment section too? A lot of times I am catching up on multiple posts and like being able to easily click through to the next (or previous) post from the bottom of the comment section.

  6. Idea

    FWIW – THANK YOU for moderating the comments if we never saw the “worst” of the trolls! THANK YOU!

  7. Kk

    I wonder if the increase in women participating in reddit, and especially if the many facebook groups have become the better option for many women who used to comment here? I find that while I dont have the anonymity in facebook groups, the conversations are more easily searchable and that the reply/tagging features are great. The conversations stay on topic, and people are less likely to act as trolls.

    • GabriellaTaupeShoes

      Hmmm.. I think you have a point there. I’m in a paid facebook group on marketing and for some reason even though I want to I can’t cancel my membership… the community has me stuck with the support and everyone rallying behind each other. Not to mention truly helpful advice. When I mentioned in my comment below that women’s website’s disable comments, only some do but most have low engagement. That’s not the case with this site!

    • C2

      I don’t reddit on the regular, but I do appreciate this site for anonymity on the inane. One of my friends replies to a lot of the threads on a blogger community FB page I also follow, and it rubs me the wrong way for some reason. Personally don’t care to have everyone know what wide-width shoes I’m recommending or travel recs I’m making during the workday.

    • Anonymous

      Do people troll less on Facebook? I guess you know better human beings than I do. Facebook moderation is a Sisyphean struggle. And I’m constantly getting PMs from harassers and MLM salespeople from the groups I’m in.

  8. GabriellaTaupeShoes

    Actually, I think you have one of the most robust and tight-knitch commenting section I’ve found a career professional websites. What is interesting is that the newer popular women’s career websites disable comments. But being part of a thriving community is what has staying power for me as a reader.

  9. Anon

    I like the way Ask A Manager does it: you cannot be “Anonymous,” but you can also be anything you like.

    Ideally, I would like a comment name, but switched up about every six months to make it harder for people to figure out who I am. The value in our discussion comes from personal experiences, but that is also the source of the risk we take in posting.

    (For what it’s worth, I’ve been able to – relatively easily – figure out the identities of several frequent commenters.)

    • Kat G

      And just to be totally clear you can STILL be anonymous and you can STILL choose different usernames at will. (Here, I mean.) The only people who see the email addresses are the people on staff here at Corporette.

    • AnonAtty

      Thank you for the FWIW comment. I am pretty darn good at internet stalking my dates but hadn’t thought of an easy way to identify frequent commenters. Your note is a good reminder that people can figure out more than you realize with relatively little info.

  10. Anonymous

    This is the only comments thread I read (outside of random Reddit lurking). Since the redesign, the comments are harder to skim and read, both on the full site and on mobile. I’m concerned not just the moderation issues, which have been ongoing and definitely need to be addressed, but also the visual presentation of the comments that is pushing down commentary. It’s all too spaced apart to flow well. Try looking to something as well known as Reddit for adjustments.

  11. CHS

    Just chiming in to say that I don’t like the redesign, and it makes me check the site less often. I don’t know if I’m a curmudgeon or what, but it feels much harder to read comments quickly and follow threads, and the format looks old to me, like CapHillStyle circle 2015 or something. Font is way too big, takes up way too much space, and generally is just tough to take in. The old format looked dated but was so much more efficient.

  12. Kat G

    OK, here’s an idea — let’s put together a Corporette Commenting Life Committee. I’d love to have 5-10 commenters to work with closely via group emails or maybe some Zoom calls or something. We’re still working out the tweaks on Expand/Collapse (cough, going back to the starting gate) because I’m bugged with some of how it’s working. If you’d like to nominate yourself or someone else to be considered please let me know via this form:

    https://corporette.com/contact/

    • Trying to Understand

      What do you want these committee members to do, exactly?

      I don’t even know what you’re requesting, but I think you’re asking too much. It’s the tone of your request, yikes. You word it as if you are not asking for volunteers to do some grunt work but for applicants to award a special honor to … huh?

      • Anonymous

        Kinda seems like an easy starting point would be to switch back to the old font/spacing at least for the commenting section and see if that drives commenting back up again.

        • AnonAtty

          This seems like it would be difficult to implement (going back to the original) but I do think the original/former layout could strongly inform what is wrong with the new look. Crowdsourcing design work seems a bit too much to ask and as a non-design professional, I don’t feel qualified to help. I’d suggest looking for a true design professional for help and improvements.

        • anon

          Yeah, that’s not as simple as it sounds. The old blog was likely built on a different platform altogether, and that’s probably not even an option.

      • Kat G

        I apologize if my tone came off wrong. This is a common problem on the Internet, which is one of the reasons I’d love to work with Real People on assessing the comments section, testing out tweaks to it so we can identify problems, having an ongoing discussion with a small group of people who understand what have a sense of history of the project and, when giving comments or suggestions, what changes were made previously and what changes were not made previously and why.

        The commenting section is important to me, and there aren’t many places on the Internet where intelligent women can gather like this, which is why I’m doing my best to make commenters here feel comfortable. (More than 50% of our traffic comes from search, and of the regulars only 20-40% check the comments on a regular basis, so this really is a subset — but a really important one to me!)

        • AnonAtty

          Woah! Interesting stats! I’d be willing to participate and will fill out the contact us form.

        • Cat

          For nomination as “unanimous consent in lieu of a committee meeting” it seems that people are bothered by four main things. I’m not sure what a volunteer committee would get you beyond this, based on my reading:
          1. Inexplicable moderation despite apparent compliance with policies (thank you for resetting the filters – this should definitely alleviate the problem!)
          2. Font is hard to read because it’s light/thin
          3. The kerning, line spacing, and amount of white space makes the comments feel more disjointed and hard to follow, especially on small phone screens. While more “modern” it’s not as functional for the goals of this community.
          4. The collapse/expand button is, as you’ve noted, not practical the way it currently operates and tallies comments.

          • AnonAtty

            First line-LOL. The rest of your comment is a perfect sum up thus far. I do think a committee may be helpful in screening additional adjustments rather than overposting to the whole site.

  13. nested comments

    I feel like there’s an issue with the way replies nest that makes it seem like there are fewer comments than there are, and also that it’s kind of tedious to “unfurl” each layer…

    • anon a mouse

      There is absolutely a comment-counting issue. If something has 3 replies, to the top post, it registers as 3 replies. But if each of those replies has 5 replies, then the top post actually has 15 sub-comments, but it only still says “3 replies”

      • Cat

        Yes! I said this above, too. If you’re scrolling with comments collapsed, there’s no way of knowing that a topic is still active unless there’s a new direct response to the OP.

        What about switching to the same font as the logo (but denser)?

      • Kat G

        I’ve noticed that too — it’s one of the main reasons we’re going back to scratch on the “expand/collapse” design feature.

  14. Anon

    Although there have clearly been issues with the redesign, I think it is also a function of the time of the posts. The morning post doesn’t go up till after 9am eastern, when a lot of people are already in the busy part of their day. I bet there would be more comments if someone could drop in and ask a question before heading to 9am meetings. And the afternoon post doesn’t go up to after 3pm eastern (like 4:30 eastern today), and lots of people are already work to wrap up the day by then.

    Often I’ll check in around 1pm on lunch, but won’t post a question even if I have one. I know that few people are going to read all the way down to answer it, and even if I try to stop by in the afternoon to post it, that may not work.

  15. AIMS

    Just a few points (and thank you for addressing this) I want to add. I don’t really like the comment sections on other s*tes and I don’t comment on them so it’s hard to give an example of something “better.” What I really liked about this place is that a) it was anonymous (to whatever extent you cared about preserving your anonymity) and b) you didn’t have to provide an email address. I don’t know why but that last bit is an important component for me but it is. The fact that things are placed in queue may be inevitable but it’s annoying because even if you don’t personally get moderated, other responses might.

    But some of the fall off in comments may be a byproduct of other issues. I have to be honest – all this stuff was way more interesting to me fresh out of law school than now (Can you pair black with navy? Is a tank top ever professional? How high a heel is too high? I had no idea!) I don’t think coming up with topic suggestions would help. Most of those get very few replies. I agree with the poster above that an earlier posting time might be good.

    • Kat G

      Thank you for your comments, AIMS – your consistent use of a username over the years helps me “know” who you are and I always appreciate your comments. Unfortunately WordPress won’t let me “remember” a username or IP address, it has to be an email address with the username field filled in. To be totally clear, though, there is no confirmation email or anything — you could, for example, use [email protected] and it would work and you could get through the modQ. Just sayin’. ;)

  16. Anonymous

    Kat, I think you are kind of missing the point if you think the only cause for the decrease in comments is the redesign. People definitely have opinions about the redesign, which have been shared extensively already. I think there is probably a decent amount of feedback for you and your designers to work with. But I do think that a number of things over the years have happened which decreased the overall engagement level of this community. The redesign may be the final straw, which causes you to lose some participants altogether. However, separately, readers have told you that they feel you are out of touch since you stopped working. Separately, readers have told you that they don’t like the moderation process, as it eliminates the “conversational” element to the comments section. Separately, there were a few incidents, most notably one where you promoted some sort of video course for compensation, which have turned off your commenter base. Separately, readers have told you that your tone is somewhat off-putting. The request above for commenters to “nominate” themselves is a prime example. I think you have an opportunity to bring this community back to being an engaged community, if you handle the redesign/comments/moderation feedback appropriately. Generally, I don’t think you value the community nor recognize that the commenters are the fabric of this site. But I do think if you are willing to recognize that, there is an opportunity to bring people back.

    • Anonymous

      Wow, this is rude! Fwiw a few weeks ago there were threads getting 400+ comments. I do think comments wax and wane a bit as Kay suggested and also vary based on the topics in each post, but I don’t think any recent drop-off is a result of the things you listed. Also from the stats Kat shared above, it’s pretty clear the commenters aren’t really the fabric of this site, at least money-wise.

      • AIMS

        For me, it’s the moderation. I forgot about the course and barely cared when it happened. I also don’t really get bothered by the monetization aspect of this whole thing because it seems baked into the cake. I think tone is going to inevitably be an issue for someone no matter what. Like the thing that offended people in this post didn’t bother me because I read it as Kat trying to be conversational and engaged, which is the other complaint people have (that she doesn’t interact in the comments). My own take on the relevancy point is just that having read this s*te for all these years and having worked during that time there are only so many things to explore? It’s not like Kat recommends leather pants for court. Some clothes aren’t my taste but it’s not because they would be out of place in my office. Even the sweatshirt blazer I complained about this week would pass without comment…

  17. Minerva

    Can we make the font a little thicker? I just find this font really hard to read. The text color looks more grey than black so there isn’t as much contrast on the screen. It negatively impacts my enjoyment of the site and the comment section.

  18. coffee

    As someone mentioned above, the redesigned comment section is incredibly hard to read on a phone or ipad. For that reason alone, I won’t check the site from home anymore as I use an ipad for web browsing in the evenings after work.

  19. Pink

    chiming in to ditto the thicker font/ reduced kerning point to make it easier to read.

    Thanks to Kat for having the site! love the discussions most of the time, and if it’s something I don’t care for, I can skip over it, so no complaints there. I’ve bought a couple of the items over the last 8+ years and have generally appreciated the community, so please keep it up!

  20. anon

    Late to reply but here is my feedback as a longtime reader and usually “lurker” – I really appreciate this site and want it to continue. An overhaul is needed as many of your original readers have matured and are at different stages in life now. Thank you for recognizing the need to keep things fresh for those of us who have been here a long time.
    1. Agree with suggestion to add links to previous and next post at the bottom of the page
    2. Agree the font is very thin
    3. Agree it is nice to remain anonymous
    4. Wish there would be some kind of system to better categorize frequent topics – for example it seems like there is a post about winter boot or coat recommendations daily
    5. My favorite threads are the true confessions, fwiw
    6. I would love to see guest posts by frequent commentators such as Senior Attorney
    7. Agree you might have more engagement if the posts went up earlier, with my work schedule I usually just catch up on the posts from the day before
    8. I’m glad we solved the mystery of where Shots Shots Shots has been

    Good luck

  21. firstgirl

    I’ve been a daily reader for 10+ years, but read the comments only infrequently. When I do, I often feel like the tone of the conversation turns quickly judgmental. I like Ask A Manager’s commenting community (though I’m not a regular commenter or comment reader for time constraints there either) and I think it helps that Allison regularly steps in to comment when a discussion turns overly judgy or otherwise becomes negative and unproductive.

    • Ellen

      I read the p’osts and then make my own comment to move the thread along. Once in a while I do see what others say, but I often do not see what I say, and wonder where my comment went! FOOEY!

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