Bad Career Advice for Women: What to Ignore
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A lot of career advice for women has been repeated so much (including by women) that it's become conventional wisdom. But how much should we listen to what the “experts” tell us about changing our habits — and changing ourselves — to be successful in a patriarchal society? Let's talk about it today!
What accepted career advice for women do you think should be questioned and challenged? What's the best and worst women-focused career advice you've been given?
Here are two examples of generally accepted career advice to jump-start the conversation — because in the light of 2021 they both seem like bad career advice for women.
“Stop apologizing so much”
Women have been told over and over to stop using words like “sorry” and “just” in their emails and conversations so that they appear more assertive. We're given specific phrases to use instead, such as in this Forbes piece, and there's even a Chrome plugin, Just Not Sorry, that flags your use of “just,” “I'm sorry,” “I'm no expert,” and so on. (Hey, why can't there be an app that highlights the mansplaining-favorite “Well, actually” and instructs men to delete it? It could be called “Just Don't.”)
At first glance, telling women to stop saying “sorry” so much seems like good advice, but the pushback brings up a lot of good points. Journalist Jessica Grose pointed out in The Washington Post that women who say things like “sorry” and “just” have learned that “using speech this way is ultimately more effective [for women]” and quoted the prominent linguist Deborah Tannen, who wrote, “For many women, and a fair number of men, saying ‘I’m sorry’ isn’t literally an apology; it’s a ritual way of restoring balance to a conversation.”
Here's another useful way to think about the “Don't apologize so much” advice, which was expressed by a woman interviewed for this New York Times story: “I get it. Maybe women apologize a lot,” she said. “But the counterpoint is, why don’t men apologize more? Maybe we should stop thinking of apologizing as such a bad thing.”
{related: Are You an Office Mom?}
“Stop using vocal fry” (and upspeak, and so on)
Women aren't the only ones who use vocal fry and associated speaking habits, but we're the ones who usually get criticized for it and accused of sounding unprofessional and just plain annoying (especially, it seems, by older men). We've often been told to avoid vocal fry at work or as a job candidate — in op-eds, by colleagues, and so on. Interestingly, some have theorized that because low voices are seen as more authoritative in general, “perhaps women drop their voices to guttural levels to demonstrate strength, confidence and thus competency.” (Damned if you do, damned if you don't?)
Opinion pieces and articles on the other side of the issue have stated that women shouldn't have to change their voices to be seen as professional and instead can choose to emphasize professionalism in other ways, as suggested in this Fast Company article on making sure that you're heard at work. (It still recommends “lower[ing] the register of your voice,” although it presents it as a non-gendered tip.) This essay in The Cut takes issue with advice that urges women to speak differently and frames it as blaming women for the way they're perceived: “At first blush, all of this speaking advice sounds like empowerment. … But are women the ones who need to change? If I’m saying something intelligent and all a listener can hear is the way I’m saying it, whose problem is that?”
What popular career advice for women do you disagree with? What do you think about the two “rules” above? In general, what do you think is the worst of the bad career advice for women?
Stock photo via Shutterstock.
“You have to wear make-up if you want to be respected.”
Worst: If you just good do work, you will get promoted.
Best: Dress for the job you want.
+ a million to “If you just do good work, you will get promoted.”
“Dress for the job you want” is frustrating and irrelevant in some fields. A leadership role in my department involves wearing suits. In my actual role that I need to grind in order to earn that leadership role, I have to go to grimy job sites and wear PPE.
Ok, well I’m a corporate lawyer, so maybe every piece of advice doesn’t apply to you?
Fellow corporate lawyer here, I don’t really get this advice for corporate lawyers. What exactly does dressing like the job you want entail for you?
I’m a CLO. I wanted that job, and I got it. Part of it is being ready to present to execs, or even the board, on a moment’s notice when something is blowing up.
…the entire post is about what is good or bad advice for you, which is the point of my response…?
Right – which is why I said it doesn’t apply to you? Keep it moving…
Maybe you got your CLO job because you are pushy and your clothes had nothing to do with it.
OMG that first one is my pet peeve. I was on a women’s panel at my company several years ago, and we all met to talk about what we’d cover. The day for the panel arrived and 5 out of 6 women said some version of that instead of what we had all talked about. As far as I could tell, I was the only one being honest.
Ooh I like this topic and I’m interested in what others have to say! I do think what’s missing from the post is an acknowledgement that there’s a still a gap between the way it should be, and the way it is. I 1000% agree that we should be questioning norms and that it should not be our problem to manage other people’s perceptions of us. But unfortunately, I think a lot of the “bad” advice directed at women’s communications styles is what I think of as survival skills to help you be taken seriously enough to get the chance to prove yourself on the merits. It is totally wrong and sexist and unfair, but as women, we are often still starting from a credibility deficit. My sense, and I could be wrong (see what I did there, softened up that opinion!), is that a man who apologizes is more likely to be seen as acting maturely in the face of a bad situation, whereas a woman who apologizes, is more likely to then be treated as admitting to wrongdoing and scapegoated. I rarely say “I’m sorry” in a work context, but that’s more because it feels like too personal of a term for a work context. But I do acknowledge and take ownership of my mistakes, which is important for everyone to do and probably what the person quoted in the post is getting at.
That said, I’m also the person who posted awhile ago about being advised that women might want to consider leaning into our “femininity” during depositions, which was terrible, sexist advice then and now!
The problem with vocal fry and upspeak is that they are affectations women adopt to come across as more “relatable” or, in the case of upspeak, less threatening. I actually think it’s the opposite of $exist to discourage women from adopting these affectations.
I don’t like men to act fake either.
+ 1. The girly tone and unnecessary apologies are affectations women adopt to be non-threatening. It’s one step short of being kwai. They are not some inherent characteristic that can’t be changed. And both men and women change at work to adopt professional and managerial tones and vocabulary.
But maybe it’s because being more “relatable” and being less threatening still serves women better than the opposite, or at least in many settings.
This is the weirdest career post ever. Why is it bad advice to discourage women from trying to appear weak in order to conform to male expectations?
Yeah, I think this post is bad career advice.
I read once that instead of apologizing, you should say “thank you.” For example, if you’re late say “Thank you for your patience” instead of gushing, “I’m so sorry I’m late!”
Oh I really like this! I apologize for everything and I’m trying to be more aware of it. This is a great way to put a spin on it and break the habit.
I need to work on this. I definitely use “sorry “ just to smooth things over, esp with my direct reports! My husband called me out on it from the other room- he overhears some convos and said I’m apologizing a lot! It’s not in an “ask for forgiveness” way though- its, “your work is important but not highest priority, so sorry I didn’t review it yet” to them…
My reply below nested incorrectly but I don’t think what you do is a problem necessarily, unless you are passive with your reports in other more important ways.
I use I am sorry and just, to my reports, a lot, and I don’t think its an issue at all. I don’t think its necessary for women to cut this out. I use this apologetic language most with reports, sometimes with equals, rarely with higher-ups.
The key to being perceived as assertive is to *be* assertive, not necessarily to talk like it. I.e. always doing the assertive thing (vs the passive, agressive or passive-agressive thing) is what got me my reputation, not the way I talk.
That…is really an excellent piece of advice. Thank you!!!!
I love this. I see myself doing, not vocal fry, but higher pitch voice with other women at first, but after a few moments we will both mutually lower our tone – like ok we’re pals let’s get to business. Wonder if anyone else does this.
I don’t know if it’s technically vocal fry, but I work with a director who uses a sing-songy cadence with just about every darn sentence and landing on a shrill note. I think it’s her attempt to sort of give off a casual “whatever” sort of vibe. Makes my skin absolutely crawl. Whenever it’s a meeting with just her and me, I’m always turning down the volume on my computer. I just want to yell “Stop!” sometimes.
Worst career advice was from my dad:
“You’ve worked there a long time and it’s a good company” anytime I mentioned wanting to leave. The reality is that early in your career, the most financial gains and experience leaps happen by moving up every few years and that’s hard to do in a relatively flat or small organization. Few companies put in the training they need with existing staff, so you need to move to gain it in other ways. You also benefit from growing your connections. I stayed way too long somewhere because I didn’t know better.
Best career advice from a former boss (we’re in a creative field):
“Every job has parts you love and parts you hate. The trick to being happy is to find something with enough of the right balance.”
Any advice that suggests that women should suck it up and “pay their dues” is problematic in my book. The thing is, in most environments, women have to pay and pay and pay… and it’s never enough for some senior leaders. Because the kids have it so easy these days.
Know your worth, then add tax. If there is no well defined, metrics based, time sensitive measure for determining when those dues are paid… you’ll be expected to prove yourself longer and harder than a similarly situated male.
I think you should apologize for things that are your fault. But I am always telling junior women not to apologize for things that are outside of their control.
The advice I hate is not to be too friendly with the staff. While I understand the reasons for it (and certainly you need to maintain some professional distance from direct reports), it has all too often been interpreted as don’t be nice to staff. Fortunately the “don’t be nice” trend seems to be dying out but we had several years of complaints from staff about rude female associates (I found out later that the secretaries begged my first boss not to hire me because of frankly impossible behavior from my predecessor.) . There is a difference between letting the secretary walk all over you and being mean!
Also, I was always bringing in baked goods and had a candy jar as a young associate and it definitely helped rather than hindering my career. Our managing partner had a sweet tooth and was always stopping by my office!
“Be a teacher because, when you get divorced, you’ll have the same schedule as your children.”
Good ol’ dad.
I find most of the advice on Ask A Manager to be fairly terrible, but one thing that consistently bothers me is when she tells job applicants to not reach out to the company before/during applying. I’m an associate at a law firm, and I get people reaching out to me all the time about open positions. Many men don’t think twice about approaching someone at a firm they want to work at, and it works to their benefit in interviews.
Admittedly, there is a right way and a wrong way to go about this. But the blanket “never contact a person at a job you are applying to” is just wrong.
I like many thing about Ask A Manager, but I agree with this. I think you can really see her HR/non-profit background here, and it’s not consistent with many other fields.
I don’t work in law but I think it depends on if you know someone. In my experience, law is well-connected and people can build on those connections. A lot of fields aren’t like that.
“suck it up, there are worse bosses / more toxic workplaces out there” is really terrible advice, and I got that from a successful woman. People seem to give it alot more to women than men, because apparently we should tolerate more crap behaviour.
All the ominous predictions of working in a worse place never came through once I left a shitty job that was making me sick. If you have savings to tide yourself over a year, you can leave.