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(L-6)
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- Nordstrom – Beauty deals through September
- Ann Taylor – Extra 30% off sale
- Banana Republic Factory – 50% off everything + extra 20% off
- Boden – 15% off new styles
- Eloquii – Extra 50% off sale
- J.Crew – 50% off select styles
- J.Crew Factory – Up to 60% off everything + 50% off sale with code
- Lo & Sons – Warehouse sale, up to 70% off
- M.M.LaFleur – Save 25% sitewide
- Neiman Marcus – Friends & Family 25% off
- Rag & Bone – Friends & Family 25% off sitewide
- Spanx – Lots of workwear on sale, some up to 70% off
- Talbots – Fall Cyber Monday sale, 40% off sitewide and $5 shipping
- Target – Car-seat trade-in event through 9/28 — bring in an old car seat to get a 20% discount on other baby/toddler stuff.
- White House Black Market – 40% off select styles
And some of our latest threadjacks here at Corporette (reader questions and commentary) — see more here!
Some of our latest threadjacks include:
- What to say to friends and family who threaten to not vote?
- What boots do you expect to wear this fall and winter?
- What beauty treatments do you do on a regular basis to look polished?
- Can I skip the annual family event my workplace holds, even if I'm a manager?
- What small steps can I take today to get myself a little more “together” and not feel so frazzled all of the time?
- The oldest daughter is America's social safety net — change my mind…
- What have you lost your taste for as you've aged?
- Tell me about your favorite adventure travels…
needanewmoniker
ladies, I could use your tales of experience. I’m 29 and recently broke up with my boyfriend of a year. before this I dated someone for 5 years. I know much better now what things didn’t work for me and in my next relationship I want to find someone I could definitely see myself with long term. I feel like what that means has changed based on my experiences. Did any of you have a period where you started thinking seriously about yourself and the kind of relationship you want, alongside your own self discovery, and what were your priorities? I’m trying to also prevent getting into relationships that are nice but just won’t work long term. Any thoughts for me?
Clementine
So I took a year and figured out what I like to do. Not what I do because it is what I did growing up, or what I do because my friends do. It was one of the most fascinating experiments of my life- I also dated different types of people towards it. I know that correlation is not causation, but towards the end of that year, I met my now-husband.
Examples of things I tried out/their verdicts: I closely followed a sports team for a year (too much of a time commitment!), hiking (liked), even went to a ‘Dracula’s Ball’ goth-party (not my style), etc. I also really thought about my life and career priorities.
Some people call it ‘the year of yes’. I found that it made me much more confident when I did meet a partner that he was compatible with the real me.
Anon
Oh man. I think I need to do this. Badly. How the heck do you figure out who the real you is??
I have a very bad habit of being like Julia Roberts in Runaway Bride and turning myself into whatever the guy likes.
I’m just not that passionate about many things like some people are. I like to read, cook, socialize, but I’m not a Hiking! Comic Books! Baseball! devotee like some people are. I feel a bit boring to be honest :/ That’s why I don’t quite mind getting involved in the guy’s interests.
Mindy
I don’t think there’s anything wrong with getting involved in a guy’s interests, as long as you enjoy it. All relationships involve some give and take. For example, I watch way more movies/sports when I’m dating someone. It’s not that I don’t enjoy these things, they’re just not as high on my list of priorities as some other things that I enjoy. It only becomes problematic if you really don’t enjoy it and/or if you’re completely ignoring your own interests in favor of a guy’s interests.
Anonymous
I agree. Wait until you have an older guy in your life. When they want to go to a ham radio convention, you will know when it’s time to say “How about I’ll catch you for dinner later” and then go get a pedicure.
Anonymous
Ha, I too have an older guy in my life and have learned how to say “Why don’t you call your buddies to tailgate at the Jimmy Buffet concert?”
Senior Attorney
Yes, as long as you enjoy it I think it’s fine. Gentleman Friend is an avid bicyclist and I’ve gotten into that and am liking it a lot. He’s also a big skier and after breaking my ankle on the bunny slope on our first ski trip, I’ll be in the lodge from now on…
Clementine
I think that just knowing what your baseline interests are helps you. While there’s nothing wrong with being onboard with some of your partner’s interests, it is nice to know that I don’t just hike because my partner does, I actually enjoy it on my own.
When I was in my early 20’s, I traveled by myself. I lived alone. I spent time figuring out my priorities. I dated incompatible men. At the time, I felt like I was floundering a bit, but I now see just what a great investment in my self it was.
OP
Like this idea of year of yes. Thank you.
Mindy
I think that’s all part of growing and maturing. Early 30’s me is much more aware of who I am and what I’m looking for than mid or even late 20’s me, partially from dating different people but also from maturing and becoming more self aware. It sounds like you’re on the right track. An in depth post mortem on past relationships can really be helpful. What was it that he did wrong, what did you do wrong? Is it something you truly want to change (be less argumentative, for me) or just a bad fit personality-wise? In your opinion, what are key characteristics of a successful relationship?
Reflect on your platonic relationships. What draws you to your favorite people/those you are most compatible with? What drives you crazy? What makes you feel good? Bad? This type of insight can be very helpful in figuring out who you are and what you want.
OP
Thanks for your response. I really like the point about platonic friendships and will reflect on that.
Ellen
Yay Kat and Kate! Welcome back! I was afreaid the websight was left unattended, but then the manageing partner said you just probabley went on vacation for a few day’s, which I support wholheardetly! YAY!!!!
Yesterday was my birthday, so for the OP’s benefit, 35 is when you realy start evalueating your situeation and your ability to have relationship’s if you break up with a guy. Now, Grandma Leyeh said that I am backslideing and will likeley have to FOCUS on my career rather then on motherhood. FOOEY b/c I think I can do both, but I need a decent guy first who want’s to do more on a first date then have me take my clotheing off for him! DOUBEL FOOEY b/c NYC is full of guy’s that want to have me do that and put picture’s up on Instagram. I do NOT use Instagram for that VERY reason. You should NOT either, even tho you are younger and probabley prettier then I am.
The manageing partner hosted a big birthday party for me yesterday at a very fancy Italian Restrunt, and the WHOLE firm was invited, and they sang Happy Birthday for me and the Maiter dee came out with a BIG chocolate cake that I brought home b/c it was to big for us to eat. Myrna even came from her firm, b/c the manageing partner likes her. Margie also was there and she gave me a $250 gift certificeate from Lord & Taylor. That was SO nice of her.
So anyway, OP, do NOT fret over men b/c they are realy only needed for 2 thing’s. YOU should realy focus on yourself and what make’s you happy. I know that Sheketovits did NOT for me, so I am waiting for some other guy. If he show’s up, fine, but if not, that is OK also, b/c I do NOT want to have to have guy’s who just want to have me take all my clotheing off for them. FOOEY!
Again, Kat and Kate, welcome back and Happy Tuedsay to the HIVE!!!! YAY!!!
anon
I actually decided to talk to a counselor about what I was looking for in a partner and the type of treatment I was accepting from past partners that wasn’t acceptable (selfish, immature, non-committal). We made a list of qualities that I valued and as I started dating new people, she and I discussed. She didn’t hold me to anything, but I think having that second outside person involved helped, and she asked the right questions that are sometimes hard to ask yourself.
OP
This sounds great. Do you recall what kind of questions were asked? I definitely want to make sure I am asking myself the right ones. It can be hard to guide yourself through life! I also feel like I am accepting some behaviours that are not right for me, and I know it, but it is still hard.
anon
I can’t recall, but I think we started with the red flags from previous relationships and qualities I saw in relationships that I wanted for myself.
Trish
1. I started dating myself for a while. I realized that I tended to be what other people wanted and didn’t even know what I liked to do or read or whatever. So, I took time to explore that for myself.
2. I met and married a man who was not my “type” at all. I had always been attracted to hippie types but my husband of 17 years was ex-military and much more conservative that I am. It’s working because on a fundamental level, we have the same values. We rarely argue, for example, over how to raise our son.
Senior Attorney
Yes! Oh, my goodness, yes!
I had two unsuccessful marriages, the second of which was a total horror show involving a malignant narcissist. I did years of therapy and it really helped me turn things around. The main thing I learned was that sometimes when we feel a strong attraction to someone, it’s because they remind us of someone in our past — like our parents, for example. That might be a good thing, but for me I grew up with an indifferent father and a critical mother, so my unconscious internal script was “people who love you criticize you and tell you you’re too fat/not good enough.” And I married two of those men, unconsciously hoping that if I could just be thin enough/good enough/agreeable enough, I could get them to love me in the way I could never get my mother to love me. Ugh. Obviously it didn’t work. Once I got that all sorted out in therapy I was able to break the pattern.
On a more practical note, once I started dating again a few years ago I made a few resolutions, which I stuck to religiously:
1. I do not chase boys. Somebody who wants to be with me with be with me. So if he doesn’t call, he doesn’t call. JSFAMO
2. People are not improvement projects.There are three kinds of undesirable characteristics in potential mates: Dealbreakers, which should be few and which you get to define for yourself. My main one is the use of the silent treatment. Then there are the things that bug you but that you put up with as the price of admission to the relationship, like socks on the floor. The third one is things that really really bug you and drive you crazy, but which you can fix if you just explain often enough or loudly enough or with enough passion and tears how very much they bother you. Oh, wait. There is no number three. Repeat after me: There is no number three. People are not improvement projects. I don’t want somebody making a project out of me, and I return the favor.
3. Take it slow, be patient, put on the brakes. If it’s meant to be, it’s meant to be and there’s no need to rush things. This was really hard for me but my therapist helped a lot.
4. Yes, I did make a list of desired qualities in a potential mate. First on the list was “must be kind.” Believe it or not, my biggest fights with my former husband were over whether he should be nice to me, and I wasn’t willing to go there again. Kindness was a must. Other than that, it was “reasonably age appropriate,” “reasonably financially appropriate,” “makes things happen” (i.e. not a couch potato, doesn’t rely on me to make all the plans and do all the legwork), “reasonably physically fit,” “has friends” (a guy with no friends is a red flag in my experience), and “is crazy about me” (see #1, above).
I met Gentleman Friend at my local Rotary Club and damned if he doesn’t check off every single box, as well as a bunch of boxes I didn’t even know I had. It took a while for us to get together, and it took a while for the sparks to fly, but oh my gosh it was so worth the wait and the patience!
Senior Attorney
Gah. Sorry for the novel…
Anon
You can write a novel anytime :) Your relationship wisdom adds so much to these discussions!!
OP
Senior Attorney I was hoping you would respond! I love all your insight. Thanks for your reply.
TravelAnon
+ 1000 to “a guy with no friends is a red flag in my experience”
NOLA
I’m late, I know, but totally agree with Senior Attorney about working some of this out in therapy. After our split, my ex threw so many accusations at me that I really felt like I needed therapy to find myself again and figure out whether or not he was right (he said I didn’t respect him and I started to wonder if I didn’t respect men).
I discovered:
1) I don’t have a problem with not respecting men. It was just him and the doofus I dated before him. Once I met someone who was worthy of respect there wasn’t an issue.
2) I needed to figure out what was important to me in a relationship – I am a passionate person and needed to find someone who was just as passionate about his life and career. My ex floundered and was envious of my career and even my hobbies and that was a big problem. Finding someone who was successful and committed made all the difference.
3) I needed to find someone who felt passionate about me! Me who I am, now and whatever. If I gain 20 lbs! Current guy is the first man I have ever been with who tells me I’m sexy and beautiful at any weight.
4) Basic values and financial compatibility are really important to me – I’m not sure I knew that well enough before I got married.
DC Anon
Similar to Clementine, I had a “year of yes” after coming out of a divorce. For me, it was about taking advantage of the space in my life to say yes to opportunities that I wouldn’t have had the space for when I was married. I said yes when anyone I liked invited me on a trip. I said yes to a couple different community service opportunities that I am still involved with. I said yes to being on a recreational sports team. I said yes to going to happy hours, dinner parties, professional events, shows, and other outings with people that I didn’t know that well. I said yes to leaning in at work. And I also said yes to myself — started a workout routine, decorated my first place I’d ever lived by myself, learned some new recipes, and started putting myself out there and inviting people to do things. Asking someone out for drinks who I thought I might like to have as a friend, inviting people over for dinner, introducing friends to each other, making an effort to get to know people that I worked with, etc.
The outcome of this year was that I built myself a community, while creating the life that I wanted to be living. And then when I met my now-husband, he was attracted to that awesome version of me.
In terms of thinking about myself post-divorce and what I wanted in a partner, I made a lot of lists about things that I thought didn’t work well and that I wanted to make sure I avoided in my next partner. The first big thing was that he was constantly trying to change me. I decided I was only interested in someone who was excited to have me exactly the way I am. Second, I realized I needed someone whose conflict style worked better for me. I am pretty low conflict and being with a high conflict person was exceedingly stressful. Third, I am a very extroverted, social person, and I decided I wanted someone who liked that about me, even if it meant that we wouldn’t necessarily be doing everything together all the time. Fourth, my former husband had struggled with mental illness and after living with it for years on end, I decided that it wasn’t something I could ever deal with again. Lastly, I realized that I needed someone who better shared my values with respect to finances, career, and the importance of investing in community (family/friendships).
Similar to Senior Attorney, I had a couple basic initial requirements to go on a second date with me: 1) must be highly enthusiastic about me, 2) must be reasonably physically active and like getting out and doing stuff, 3) must be intellectually curious. And then I really didn’t go on a lot of second dates. The rest of my life was so full though that I was really reluctant to spend time “seeing where this goes” with anyone who I wasn’t incredibly psyched about.
Long story short, I grew so much and have so many good memories from that year. Best of luck and let us know how it goes!
APDA discussion
Beautiful skirt!
So it’s been mentioned a few times lately that there are some APDA alumni here, including myself! I’m interested in women’s perspectives on the debating world and am curious as to whether you enjoyed your time on the circuit and found it welcoming/fair/enjoyable for women. I didn’t, unfortunately – I encountered a lot of anti-women attitudes in rounds, between rounds, and from judges. I was also really disgusted when a female debater a few years younger than me was punched in the face at a tournament party and no one (to my knowledge) ever did anything about it. Sadly, these experiences tended to outweigh some of the really amazing rounds I had and the interesting people I met. I’m not sure if anything has changed since then, but I’m really curious as to what others think. Did anyone else have much more positive experiences and do you feel that debating helped you in your career? I’m grateful to debate for making me a much better speaker even if the experience was mixed overall.
Anonymous
You might enjoy this radio lab story on debate and race:
http://www.radiolab.org/story/debatable/
Anonymous
I could talk to y’all about this podcast for daaaaaaaaaays.
My debate experience (white, female, affluent school district) was mostly positive, but I’m now involved with my local Urban Debate League and better recognize how we shouldn’t assume debate is a “home” for everyone and work to make debate more inclusive. Debate had a profound impact on my confidence, ambition and sense of self, but debate in and of itself isn’t enough if the environment in which debate happens isn’t supportive and inclusive.
Anonymous
So I listened to it, and having had no experience with debate, I was sort of torn. I understand the fundamental problem they were identifying and I think it’s worth having a conversation (or lots of conversations!) about that problem. But in the context of the actual debates, I imagine I’d have been extremely frustrated if I prepared to debate a particular topic and they just blew it all up.
Anonymous
I understand that frustration, but I think it supports and speaks to the level of frustration that students from Urban Debate Leagues feel when they come up against traditional white leagues that have more time, money, access and resources (and who arguably may not want them there in the first place).
Because the way debate works- there’s a set topic or resolution, but each team can approach or tackle the resolution from a different angle. So if the resolution is “The US Government should spend more money on supporting the development of alternative energy” one team might talk about solar and another might focus on wind. Teams with elite coaches, who go to summer debate institutes, and who have more time (because they don’t work after school jobs, etc) will have the advantage because they can prepare for more of these possibilities. And that doesn’t even touch on being coached in “spreading” – that super obnoxious speed reading style of debate that you hear in the podcast episode.
Under-resourced teams (again, typically from urban, black, poorer backgrounds) go into most rounds of debate at a disadvantage for that reason. So for the Louisville strategy to approach debate by challenging their opponents to defend debate, they’re getting the upper hand on their own terms in the only way they really can- by forcing the conversation to be a topic the other team may not have prepared for.
And that’s really only the tip of the iceberg of this whole conversation. It’s definitely complicated and layered, but it’s hard to imagine why the debate community would or should be resistant to a conversation about whether debate is valuable, meaningful or even defensible. And I can’t imagine a better stage to have that conversation than at national collegiate tournaments. If you love debate, you should be prepared to defend why the debate system is beneficial, even if that means addressing tough arguments regarding exclusion.
Anonymous
Sometimes you gotta blow a b!tch up.
Anonymous
I did APDA (was in college ~10 years ago). I didn’t take it super seriously, only went to a handful of tournaments each year and never scored that well, so there’s probably a lot of insider stuff I don’t know about. That said, I never really saw any explicit anti-woman stuff but there was certainly a ton of implicit bias much like there is in male-dominated professions. It was hard for women to be powerful speakers without being labeled “bitchy,” which guys never were, etc. It was annoying, but frankly no worse than what I see in Big Law on a daily basis now.
Blonde Lawyer
I didn’t participate in APDA but I did participate in trial team in law school. I noticed that the women tended to get a lot of unjustified feedback on their physical appearance that the men did not get. In particular, I remember one team the judges told the two female participants that they should consider wearing contact lenses or better quality glasses as the judges couldn’t easily see their eyes while they talked and were distracted by it. These ladies had on normal glasses though maybe they didn’t spring for the highest level of anti-glare lens.
Anonymous
I’m not much of a debater, but I did some when I was younger (always unprepared! poor school district = you are happy there is bus to drive you to these things). I am good at speaking off the cuff and thinking on the fly. This has been a complete win for me in life (not so on the debating circuit).
BUT I also did a bit of theater as a kid.
My theory is to treat it all as a role-play and that it’s not about you (except as a growth opportunity). Pretend you are one of those wordy drunks and let the words flow.
Anonymous
I can’t comment about the person punched at the face at a debate event, but I think that what is good about debate is that it is hard. And adversarial.
Not that much that young people encounter is deliberately hard and adversarial. I needed a challenge like that where someone held my feet to the fire. I could have used more of that.
I think it helped me a lot.
Formerdebater
I competed in CUSID but went to many APDA tournaments over the years (incl. North American’s and several Worlds). I was pretty competitive in terms of speaking rank and for the time would have been an “insider”. I never once felt hindered or marked down for being female BUT I fully recognize that finding the right tone was key for women. When coaching women speakers I definitely stressed not to fall into the trap of grating bitch or whimpering mouse…which is awful but yet practical advice. I will say that debating absolutely changed me for the better, gave me confidence to find my voice, think outside the box while under time pressure and be able to advocate even for an unpopular opinion that I might not agree with – all skills that are invaluable to me as a litigator. Plus all the parties and smart(ish) boys to kiss…win, win.
Runner 5
I’m heavily involved in my university’s debating society and it’s totally normal to be one of only two or three women in the room, which is depressing. Although I went to an event (not debating but for university societies) a few weeks ago where of 63 students, only three were female. That was awful.
buffybot
Debate nerds are my favorite nerds, really. I did speech and debate in high school as well as in college (APDA).
Weirdly, I have to say “yes” to both of your questions – I loved my experience doing debate and believe it was truly formative for me, both intellectually and socially. It was one of the best things I ever did.
But I also was keenly aware at the time that it was a sexist, sexist institution (this was a bit over 10 years ago). There were all kinds of dynamics that were questionable, and I think the student-led nature of the APDA program, along with the heavy emphasis on the social component of tournaments (especially the parties) tended to let some of the worst tendencies go unchecked. It may have also been a dynamic intensified by the more senior leadership on my team, as well.
I saw it in the competition – women did not break/place proportionately, judges (which were just your local alums or random college kids) used criteria that were demonstrably sexist, etc. I also saw it socially – as one of the few women on my team, I definitely got to be the “responsible mommy” when traveling, along with a hearty dose of inappropriate attention.
Weirdly, debate made me much less combative and competitive in normal life. I went to law school and wanted to stay far, far away from litigation. I think it taught me that arguing is an art form and a game, and that you can enjoy the argument but winning or losing is often irrelevant in the grand scheme, since it depends on the unique conditions and biases at the moment in your audience and there is no true “right.”
It also made me incredibly comfortable with extemporaneous speech and organizing my thoughts on the fly, which I use every day. I miss it, I would encourage any daughter of mine to do it, and I would talk to her at length about how it tends to enshrine some of the worst dynamics of institutionalized sexism and racism.
Um
Um, a woman was actually punched in the face at a debate event? WTF? I wonder if anything ever happened to that guy.
anon
I did NFL in high school (Lincoln-Douglas, top contender in my district but not even vaguely competitive at nationals) and APDA in college. That was 20+ years ago, and I was starting right as Ted Cruz was ending. I’m glad I did it, for the extemporaneous speaking experience, but I do sometimes regret traveling all those weekends in college. (I probably went to tournaments twice a month).
I was a middling debater — I always qualified for nationals but was never a contender for speaker or team of the year. I also never felt like an insider, even though several of the men on my team (and women who dated debaters from other schools) were. I didn’t tag it as sexism then, but looking back the top teams and speakers were always men (& it looks like from the APDA wiki, are still overwhelmingly men). At time I just thought that I’d gone from being a big fish in a small pond to the opposite, and while I still think that was the explanation for me, I don’t think that’s the explanation for all women who came before and after me.
What I really remember is a Princeton woman claiming another Princeton debater, who she’d been dating, sexually assaulted her. I can’t remember if she ever said rape, but she was very vocal that she’d drawn boundaries and he’d overstepped them after drinking. There was an attempt to start a discussion of how women were treated on the circuit, and some of the top schools — particularly Princeton — worked very hard to stop that. The details are fuzzy now, but it really highlighted how it was a male-dominated circuit and women weren’t full participants.
Serafina
I was on APDA – graduated ~4 years ago. It was very much a mixed experience.
I was very heavily involved for ~3 years, went to tournaments nearly every weekend and was president of my school’s team. I loved a lot of the intellectual discussion, made a few really good friends, and I think learned a ton of “softer” skills that have helped me in my job (as a consultant) – how to think on my feet and speak in public, how to summarize content (usually into three main points!), how to simultaneously listen and take notes and formulate questions, how to stay poised when the opponent is sneering and mocking you. Between the leadership role and the skills I learned, I’m pretty sure it got me my post-college job at a top-3 consulting firm.
I was never really good though, and that was hard. Like, I would usually be close to the break (making outrounds), but usually wouldn’t quite make it. I was never quite part of the “in” group socially. It’s hard to say how much that was caused by sexism/APDA problems, and how much due to my personal hang-ups and the fact that I simply wasn’t that good. Arrogance, cockiness, and humor were often rewarded, which may come easier or come off better for guys, or may just be things I wasn’t great at. Being “in” the social group also helped win debates, as judges were just other debaters who were more likely to give the benefit of the doubt to someone they knew well and liked. I sometimes felt that for the in-group, someone’s value as a human being was judged by how good they were (ie how much they won) at debate. Maybe I just had never participated in anything else competitively and had a hard time not being the best. Throughout college I cried far, far more about debate than about boys.
I didn’t mind being the only woman in the room per se, but it was hard to have no female role models, and guy’s tactics (yelling and screaming) were judged poorly when coming from a woman. I don’t think the sexism was explicit, but I think women were respected less and judged more harshly.
TLDR; APDA was both formative and enriching and painful to think back to.
Anonymous
Poll time!
Do you have a job description?
How detailed is your job description?
How often do you do work that’s not in your job description? Why?
What’s your industry and company size?
Anonymous
Do you have a job description? Yes!
How detailed is your job description? Fairly detailed. It’s a government job with specific titles, so the title itself has a fairly specific descriptions.
How often do you do work that’s not in your job description? Why? Well, my job description includes a line that basically says, ‘Other necessary duties assigned.’ so technically… I guess… never? Realistically, probably 75% of the time I’m doing more than what my job description would indicate.
What’s your industry and company size? Government, 250 people in my large department
Anonymous
Do you have a job description? Yes
How detailed is your job description? Pretty high level, I’m in an executive/ department head level role so it’s got things like “manage department to meet company goals” and things like that
How often do you do work that’s not in your job description? Never, because it includes the phrase “and other duties as assigned.”
What’s your industry and company size? healthcare technology / consulting services, over 20k employees
Anonymous
– Yes
– Fairly detailed in the sense that it has a LOT of bullet points
– Never. Like other’s job descriptions, mine contains, “and other duties as assigned.”
– Electrical connectivity, over 70k employees
I haz a tail!
It seems that I have a tail. Well, not a tail, but zippers on dresses seem to stick out at the bottom where they end (it’s the innards of the zipper at the bottom that just stick out). Does anyone else have this issue?
I think that it comes from the fact that I am a hair short (I often need a petite dress to get the waist in the correct place relative to my shoulders, even though I’m a hair over 5-4; often this makes the whole dress too short so things aren’t work appropriate anymore). I think on the zipper dresses, the zipper end is fine for most people, but it is hitting too low on me and thus forms what looks like a tail (or some rear-facing codpiece — ugh!).
If you have had this issue, is there a fix? I’m passing up some lovely dresses lately due to the whole tail thing and am limited to less-sheathy dresses or knit ones (DVF). It’s not a problem for casual dresses since most have a small zipper if any, but a lot of work dresses feature a full-length zip if they are sheath-style.
:(
Anonymous
What is a “hair short”?
Anon
A colloquialism that means “a bit” or a “a little” short.
SS
Just a little bit short – just short “by a hair”
Emmer
Just a little bit short – just short “by a hair”
Sus
If you don’t mind the opening the zipper makes being shorter than it is now, a tailor can shorten the zipper for you. They can cut off the “tail” part and close the seam where it was.
Lucy
I am just your height, a bit short-waisted, with a booty. I have had this exact experience with back-zippered dresses. I think I loved one enough to go ahead and buy, and will try the suggestion for tailoring below on that one, but I’ve left some great dresses on the rack for this reason and it is frustrating. So no suggestions but you are not alone.
Meg Murry
Where are you getting dresses from? I’ve found this problem is often made far worse by cheap/poor construction where the sewing around the zipper isn’t done well – so maybe the black dress is my size has a zipper lump, but another one off the same rack doesn’t.
In my case I’m the opposite though – I am long waisted with a booty, so instead of a tail lower on my butt, I have a lump sticking up right where my butt starts to stick out.
As much as we all hate them, I think this is a huge part of why the full length zipper has taken off – it is cheaper and easier to sew the two sides to a zipper from top to bottom than to neatly join the zipper to the bottom half of the dress – the full length zipper just requires sewing in a straight line, the half zipper requires some actual care and skill.
Anonymous
They are expensive! The fabric isn’t wool twill or wool crepe though (no probem there). I think that the zipper is just stiffer than the fabric around it, so it assumes a shape where the rest of the material drapes. It is worse if the tail is a few inches long (like past where my butt stops) inside the dress. It looks like I have a load in my pants or something.
I can’t wear a petite dress length because the skirts are always too short.
I guess I just need couture . . .
Trish
You may also be short-waisted which means petite dresses might fit you better.
Anonymous
I’ll start off by saying I am in therapy ;)
I’m afraid I may not understand what a normal, healthy relationship looks like. I’m in my 30s and divorced, and have been seeing someone for 7 months. Our relationship is long distance-ish (two northeast cities – we see each other most weekends, which kind of makes it like a normal relationship). He’s moving to my city in September (the move has nothing to do with me – it was planned before we met).
We are super compatible on paper regarding all the important things in life (goals, money, background). We don’t share some political views and some hobbies, but that seems ok. The s3x is amazing and we both find each other attractive. But I just feel disconnected and bored.
We talk daily, and he’s got his job, and I’ve got mine. But those phone calls where we each go through our own day are pretty much it.
I feel like maybe I’m wanting the rush of always talking about a future together or dreaming about the next big thing? But there isn’t a next big thing for me – I’m dissatisfied in my job, but a change can’t happen for 6 more months; I’m not involved in my community bc this is only a short-term location for me. I just feel blah in life, and I’m wondering if I’m expecting him to “entertain” me.
Or do normal relationships have boring times? I don’t want to throw the baby out with the bath water. Just because I’m in a funk doesn’t necessarily mean there’s anything wrong with our relationship. But how do you know? When do you hang around? I don’t want to break up because I’m expecting angels to be singing every day or something, but maybe there’s supposed to be more than this?
(And I’ll say I don’t necessarily believe in The One. See: ex-husband.)
KT
I mean, ruts are normal. I love my husband to pieces, but some days it occurs to me we are extremely dull. We talk about Bear Grylls for goodness’ sakes. But he still makes me happy and we bond and when we do get to do fun things like go out or travel, it’s awesome.
mascot
Life isn’t all excitement all the time. I agree that there are normal ruts and boring times. It doesn’t mean anything is wrong with your relationship. Rather than depend on him to entertain you, how about coming up with some short term goals that you can work on? Read 3 books about something you’ve always wanted to know more about, train for some fitness goal like running a 5k or doing a real pull-up, cook your way through a chapter of a book, etc. I think there are also short term volunteering activities that don’t require some long term commitment. A seat on a board probably wouldn’t work or something that requires extensive training. How about getting your hands dirty with a clean up the park/school garden project or going to sort food at the local food bank?
SS
I think the answer is that everyone’s “normal” and “healthy” relationship is different. Certainly there are boring times, you are spending your LIFE with a person and sometimes life is boring.
The one thing that stuck out to me in your post is that you’re feeling disconnected. In my case, even when we are boring-ly doing taxes or talking about Love It or List It or deciding if we need to get a new vacuum, I still feel connected to him.
Diana Barry
Do you feel disconnected and bored *from him* or just *in general*?
If the former, it may indeed be the relationship, and you could break up now, or wait until he moves to your city and then see how things are when you are together more.
BUT if you don’t like your job or your city, then *that* may be the source of your dissatisfaction and you may even be depressed if everything feels colorless, blah, and disconnected. Have you explored these questions with your therapist?
Hugs!
Cat
Yeah, if I expected every day with my husband to include some sort of sparkling interaction, I’d be disappointed fairly often — not because we’ve “lost the spark” but because some days are just plain boring, and our main discussion topics of the evening are which Netflix to watch. But on the flip side, I love that I can have a boring evening with him and be happy about it — companionable silence is wonderful! — but admittedly is harder long distance, because instead of snuggling up and reading/watching next to each other, you’re stuck with what feels like a tedious phone call of nothingness. Can you try watching a show “together” on the phone or something similar?
Anonymous
Some of your boredom may be from the long-distance aspect of the relationship. You spend weekends together, but 5 out of 7 days, you have separate lives. So you each talk about your own day, but you lack shared experiences during the week.
Many of the things that I love most about my relationship with da husband are spontaneous occurrences. Random weeknight sex. Stupid jokes that we keep building on until we’re crying from laughing so hard. Conversations that start as “how was your day?’ but evolve into something deep. These all depend on proximity.
NYNY
Oops! That was me.
Anonymous
Your relationship sounds fine. Your life sounds boring. Your partner isn’t a crutch to make you more engaged, less depressed, and less bored. Do that work yourself. Bring something to the table. Join a book club. Go hiking. Don’t just shrug your shoulders because it’s temporary.
anon
Unless you actively don’t like something about him, I think the relationship sounds fine. Long distance is hard, largely because of the pressure to be “exciting” during those precious times you talk or see each other. However, life is not always exciting. So you have to manage that pressure.
Katy
My husband and I are heading to South Africa in late August or early September. We know we want to go here because it is a beautiful country, but we don’t know where to stay, what exactly to do, etc. Any recommendations to help us start our planning? Any tips to know? Thanks!
South Africa suggestions
Love South Africa! Are you planning to move about or stay in one spot? If the latter, I would definitely recommend Cape Town as home base. There are a million activities based out of Cape Town, as well as great day trips – Muizenberg beach, Camp’s Bay (posh beach front town set between the ocean and cliffs). I’d also recommend checking out the University of Cape Town which is GORGEOUS and also has great hiking behind it with amazing views of Cape Town.
If you have more flexibility (renting a car, additional airfare, etc.) I have a few more suggestions. Kruger National Park is incredible and offers one in a lifetime opportunities for safari. Durban is a very cool city for a brief trip and, since it is on the Indian Ocean, is much warmer swimming. I, personally, would skip Jo’burg for tourism, but things may have changed since I visited.
Finally, if you’re looking for a more off-the-beaten-path adventure and have a car, I’d recommend the Garden Route, which goes along the southern coast of SA. There are tons of attractions along the way including wildlife reserves, surfing, and the world’s tallest bungee jumping!
Have a great time – you will love it!!
lawsuited
I grew up in Kwa-Zulu Natal, so I have to recommend that you spend some time in the Natal Midlands (at the foot of the Drakensberg mountains). Do the Midlands Meander (you have to see the Mandela capture site, and check out the local goods at Groundcover and Zulu Lulu plus the informal market at the Howick Falls if you want to buy some beadwork), see the San rock paintings at Kamberg (it’s a really nice walk/climb, and the rock art is some of the best preserved in South Africa), consider booking a cabin at Castleburn or Cathedral Peak so you can enjoy the beauty and tranquility of the Drankensberg.
If you’re in Kwa-Zulu Natal and want to see some game, book a Leadwood Lodge cottage at Tala Game Reserve. The cottages are absolutely gorgeous, and you can see everything but big cats on the game drives. If seeing big cats is important to you, you can go up to Kruger National Park, but it a bit out of the way.
waffles
Second Cape Town. It is a beautiful city. Try to stay near the Victoria & Alfred waterfront area, it is really nice (a bit touristy), and safe.
Boulders Beach is a short drive away – I took a small-group tour out there. Visiting the penguins on the beach was awesome!
If you like wine, the Cape Town area also has great wineries in beautiful spots. We hired a driver with knowledge of the local wineries for a day – try to avoid Sundays as many of the best small wineries are closed.
If you go to Jo’burg, the Nelson Mandela museum is a good stop. And Wandies restaurant in Soweto was a neat opportunity to try home-style South African cooking. Delicious!
Scandia
I just came back from Cape Town, one of the most interesseting Cities I have been to, and the area is stunning.
Babiez
Anyone else suffering from mad baby fever? Maybe it is springtime, but all I can think about is babies babies babies. I am only 26 and in a relatively serous relationship – but kids are years away. My BF and I spend a lot of time with pregnant friends and friends’ babies. During an Easter egg hunt with them this weekend, I seriously felt like I was about to start lactating.
Sometimes I find myself hoping I will get accidentally pregnant. I am on the pill and take it correctly, but sometimes if I feel nauseous or my period is a day late, I get so excited by the idea of being pregnant. If I accidentally am late on a pill (in which case I tell my BF and we -sometimes- use alternative methods), I find myself crossing my fingers. Is this terrible? Do others feel this way? I have a hard time rationalizing why a baby wouldn’t be a great thing (we make good money, he owns a house outright, I have awesome benefits). My boyfriend knows I’m feeling this way, and kids are an eventual goal for us both – it’s just not going to be the time for like four years. Just hormones? Craziness? Help?
Anonymous
Why are you waiting four years? What if you bumped up the date?
Anonymous
Um, maybe because she’s not married or even engaged? Cart before the horse, much?
Anonymous
Um, judgey much? maybe those are your priorities and not necessarily hers?
I did engagement, marriage, kids but not everyone does/wants to.
Anonymous
I’m not judging her priorities. More power to her if she wants to have kids before marriage – if she and her BF were on the same page. But yeah when you’re 26, and you and BF aren’t engaged (and there’s no evidence that you’re even talking about it or that they’ve made a joint decision to skip that step), asking him to “move up the timetable for kids” is freaking crazy. Take things one step at a time.
2016
Hello! I’d like to introduce myself. I’m the year 2016. You’re probably thinking of my older sister, year 1955.
In 2016, carts and horses can be arranged in many ways. In fact, we’ve evolved so much that lots of people just use cars, and/or a uhaul. Lots of folks go from –> engagement –> marriage or engagement –> kids –> marriage or civil partnership –> kids, or kids –> no formal partnership.
It seems like the common denominator for success isn’t the piece of paper, but rather the degree of commitment between partners. Of course, only OP and her BF can answer that.
Anonymous
Love, love, love
Anonymous
Ha, ha, yes, it’s always fun to accuse someone of being from the 1950s.
Look, if a friend or sister or co-worker came to me and said “BF and I are having a baby,” my reaction would be “That’s amazing! Congratulations!” not “What? But you’re not engaged or married.” But I’m putting myself in the BF’s shoes here — there’s NO indication that they’ve talked about having a baby before or instead of more traditional stuff like engagement and married. A 26 year old guy who is dating a girl (only “relatively seriously”) who tells him “I want to have a baby now” before they’re engaged – and maybe before they’ve even *discussed* engagement – is going to flip out, and quite legitimately, I think.
I don’t judge adults who jointly decide to have a baby without a ring or a wedding. But there’s no evidence that they’ve decided to skip those steps and my point it that putting pressure on a 26 year old guy, that you’re not even engaged to, to have a baby is pretty crazy. I mean, she should do whatever she wants, but don’t be surprised if he runs. I would have run screaming the other way if my now-husband had told me he had “baby fever” when were 26 and still just dating.
The Law
Hi 2016! I am glad that you have very modern thoughts about things, but I don’t! If you don’t think that the piece of paper that constitutes “marriage” is very important, you are sadly misinformed. Anyone who is in a relationship with the person they intend to procreate with who doesn’t get married first is making an unwise decision. I hope I get brought into the current century sometime soon, but it’s naïve to think I’m there already! No matter how much you refer to your boyfriend and baby-daddy as “Mr. 2016” he is not “Mr. 2016” until your state says he is.
Anonymous
Really “The Law”? – perhaps you could explain why ” Anyone who is in a relationship with the person they intend to procreate with who doesn’t get married first is making an unwise decision.”
What legal benefits are available to children of a marriage that are not available to children born outside of marriage? hmm? pretty sure we are past the era of legitimate/illegitimate children
2016
Hmm, yes, Anonymous at 11:14 and “The Law.” I recall acknowledging that OP and her BF are the only ones who know whether they are sufficiently serious and that the issue hinges on their degree of commitment. Reading comprehension anyone? No need to brow beat me just because you’re offended… by… something.
“Hi 2016! I am glad that you have very modern thoughts about things, but I don’t! If you don’t think that the piece of paper that constitutes “marriage” is very important, you are sadly misinformed.”
Lol. And, phew!! Good thing I wasn’t judging your relationship choices, so you can relax now!!
ya
Not to mention not even very many carts or horses around.
mascot
Spend some time with parents of toddlers and older kids. Ask them about all the ways that life has changed for them (relationship, career, free time, money, etc). See what it really means to be on kid duty 24/7. Kids are great, I’ve got one. But, it’s more than just that adorable 6 month old playing with an easter egg. Offer to babysit so your friends can go out to dinner or just run 3 errands in a row. Then enjoy this time in your life when you can focus just on adult pursuits.
anne-on
Ha, yes, this. Bonus points if you babysit for a friend with an older toddler and a newly mobile baby. Three plus hours of trying to entertain the older one while keeping the smaller one from eating things he/she shouldn’t, or fling themselves off every step/ledge/staircase everywhere should be enough to send you happily home to your boyfriend and a few glasses of wine.
NYNY
Babysitting can be the best birth control.
Anon in NYC
Yep. Relationship, career, free time, and money have all taken a backseat. And that’s fine because we were ready for it. But I miss being able to do what I want to do when I want to do it.
(But I’m not one to tell someone to not have kids in their mid-20s. If you want kids, there’s no shame in feeling that way!)
Anonymous
Yes, this. I had my first kid at 29, H and I had been together for 6 years and married for 3. We were already an old boring couple by that point, but it was still a big shock to incorporate the energy demands, logistics, and cost of kids into our lives. I love my children and wouldn’t trade them for the world, but I miss alone time, alone time with my husband, being able to leave the house in <10 minutes, and having time and money to throw at my own hobbies and travel. I'm really glad I spent my 20's doing all that stuff. My childcare costs will be ~$50k next year for 3 kids under 5. FIFTY THOUSAND DOLLARS. Say nothing of the extra money I spend on outsourcing household chores to save my sanity. I never had baby fever, really. We just knew we wanted x number of kids and I didn't want to be in my late 30's when I had the last one, so it was time to get going. Like anonymous below, I want a pack of kids when I'm old, and worked backward. :)
Babysit. It will cure you of baby fever (or convince you that it's not just hormones+Spring, and you actually might want to discuss next steps with your boyfriend), and your friends will love you for it!
Anon
For a second I thought the 50k number was crazypants. Until I calc’d mine and it comes out to 46k per year. Sobering.
Anonymous
I have one kid already and am pregnant…and never in my life have I felt that way. I didn’t really want to *be* pregnant. I just wanted a pack of kids when I’m old :) But in order to get there, we had to work backward.
I wholeheartedly agree to offer to babysit or spend time with friends that have kids. It’ll give you exposure and also help your friends out. Enjoy the heck out of your Sunday Fundays and whatever all else you kids these days do…because my Sunday Funday is a morning full of Curious George, laundry, and yardwork.
–30 year old mom of 1 and 1 on the way whose friends are still hip and cool and baby free
Anonymous
My Sunday Funday is laundry, cleaning, grocery shopping, and the occasional chore-like first date brunch because I’d like to not be single forever. Your attitude is the one that makes the parents at the office think it’s okay to dump all the work on the single people so you can run off to Timmy’s soccer game, since it’s not like we have anything to do.
-31 year old singleton, no kids
Anonymous
Where do you live!? My friends didn’t even want a serious relationship at 26. Now that we’re 32 most have settled down and many are married but still almost no one has babies.
Anonymous
I had my babies at 31 and 34. It wasn’t just about when we wanted to start but also when we wanted to finish the teenage/college years of raising them. I hope to retire before I’m 60 and that wasn’t happening if we waited much longer.
Emmer
Who knows why you’re feeling the way you feel; they are still valid feelings. And you don’t need to be told by others that you would miss your current life so much if you have kids or whatever – a lot of people prefer their lives as parents and don’t necessarily miss the freedom of being childless. All that said, that doesn’t mean that whenever you feel like you really want a baby is the right time to have a baby. It would be your boyfriend’s child too, so his feelings matter equally. Why does he (and maybe part of you? can’t tell) want to wait four years? I do think that if you choose to have a child with a partner you should do everything possible to make sure that you both are on board being in an 18 year relationship (because even if you break up, you will still have some relationship with that person by virtue of your child). If that needs to take four years for you, better to take that time, because you’ll be a better parent for it. But if it’s just about money or career goals or whatever, think about whether you really need four years.
Baby Timing
My younger sister was 25 with her first kid and 27 with her second. She and her husband were ready. They both wanted it, so they went ahead and did it. And it has been totally fine. They are very family oriented, went to a family oriented church and had a lot of friends with kids. It just made sense for them in that context. They were also both very employable in good solid engineering type jobs right out of college, so money was not an issue and they didn’t do any of the traditional 20-something “finding themselves”/flailing. As young parents they have a lot of energy and are always doing fun activities with their kids.
On the other hand, I was 30 when I had my kid. I did do some economic flailing and going back to school in my 20s. Most of my friends still don’t have kids. and the ones that do were in their 30s. I think a lot of it depends on your peer group and your economic situation. I’m happy that I waited til 30, but I’ve never had baby fever, and my daughter is going to be an only. Having a kid makes it hard to do anything spontaneously, but its also a lot more fun than I thought it would be.
Anon
Kind of chuckling at this thread. This is how you know you’re on a board full of overachieving women with too many graduate degrees, many of whom are from upper or upper middle class families in the northeast.
Because most of the “normal” Midwesterners and southerners I know all got married a year or two out of college and had families by the time they were OP’s age. I’m 34 and my FB feed is full of grade school aged children, not babies.
OP, you do you. You’re not crazy. If you’re ready to be a mom and your partner is on board, go for it.
Anon
–Clarifying to add that I am one of the overachieving chicks with too many degrees…
Spirograph
Ha, so true. I’m a Midwestern transplant in DC. All my local 30-something friends (and I) have babies or toddlers, but many of my facebook friends from back home have elementary schoolers. Sometimes I wonder how much more energy I would have had to deal with pregnancy and babies when I was 22. Of course, my career prospects were vastly different back then… It’s always a trade-off.
Anonymous
I’m a Midwesterner (not Chicago or another big city) and none of my close friends from high school have babies (I’m 31). My two best friends from high school are still single. Of course, there are plenty of people in my hometown who do have babies or kids, but it’s not the only way to be, even in the Midwest. I haaaaaaaaaaate that “this is how it is in the Midwest and South arguments.”
Anonymous
I’m from the midwest and yeah, a lot of my classmates have grade-school age kids. But a lot of them have also been divorced and already have kids from multiple fathers by the age of 30. Almost all of them have no education beyond college, never left our home state (in many cases, never left our hometown), don’t work outside the home, and aren’t in a great financial position because their husbands work low-paying jobs and they have three or four mouths to feed.
I don’t think they’re “normal” even though what they’re doing may be much more common than what I’ve done. I think they’re really sad and I would never advise someone I cared about to take that path.
Commiserating
+1 I’m 26 and really, really, really want to be pregnant. Also in big law, overachieving chick, blah blah blah.
Not saying this is a conversation you should have you with your semi-serious boyfriend at this time for reasons already mentioned, but I am saying–you are not crazy. This is legitimate. And oh man my ovaries ache.
Chuckling too
28 and pregnant with my first in the Midwest. Happily married and practicing law. Wanting to have a baby at 26 is just not strange to me. Also, the cost of living is so much lower here so there is less pressure financially.
To OP, I would say to be more open minded about your timeline. You say kids are 4 years away like that is carved in stone tablets. Time to have some honest conversations about your future with BF. Do you two want to get married? When? Do you both want kids? What kind of careers do you want? What about childcare?
Been there, felt that, got a puppy
This is maybe not the most acceptable thing to say, but honestly, my recommendation is to rescue a dog. I was having bad baby fever (like, having to close my office door because I spent an entire day intermittently crying when my assistant announced she was pregnant kind of bad), and we got a dog a few days after Christmas (adopted him through a rescue that pulls dogs from puppy mills) – he’s adorable and hilarious and expensive and time-consuming and destructive and smart and terrible and wonderful, and while I definitely still want a child or two in my future, it’s no longer driving me insane.
Trish
Have a baby! Tell your man you love him, want to be with him and want his babies. Why wait four years?
Anonymous
I had baby fever when I had a not-so-great boyfriend. So I broke up with the boyfriend and got a dog. One of the best decisions I ever made for myself. Fast forward six years and now I’ve got a dog, a partner, and a baby due in July 2016. YMMV, but I literally never regretted getting my dog, even though I knew it was a combination of baby envy/”I’ll be alone forever”/all my friends are getting married-having babies-whatever.
I understand this doesn’t really address your question but…eh
Anonymous
Hmmm I’m 33 and have never experienced anything close to what you’re talking about. Just anecdotally, I’ve noticed a few friends having the crazy baby fever you’re talking about in conjunction with anxiety or unhappiness about not being married on their ideal timeline. Do you think the baby fever is related to any anxiety with your relationship? Cause actively desiring your birth control to fail and surprise your boyfriend with a baby does sound a little crazy…
PNW Trip
Hi ladies! I’m traveling to PNW this spring (Vancouver, Seattle, Olympic NP) and am interested on your suggestions on basically everything. We’ll be driving down from Vancouver and stopping in Bellingham, WA before doing Seattle and Olympic. I’ve never been to the area and am doing tons of research on great things to do but wanted to tap into your expertise to see what’s not to be missed.
Thank you in advance!!
cbackson
There have been a bunch of Seattle travel threads in the pas – should be lots of good info there.
(I LOVE the Olympics, btw – Mount Townsend is my favorite hike – it’s spectacular.)
MJ
I know I sound like a broken record, but search Sunset Magazine’s archives. They have tons of road trip ideas, great local hidden gems, what do to in National Parks, etc. Sometimes google searches better than the search box on their own website. Enjoy.
If you are in Seattle, I love Top Pot Donuts. YUM.
Annie
If you’re stopping in Bellingham and like beer (or even if you don’t), I highly recommend Boundary Bay Brewery for lunch. The blue cheese vinaigrette is amazing and I make sure to get a salad every time I go there to get it. Aslan Brewing and Honey Moon Mead are also in Bellingham, I recommend both.
JTX
That is a big area. What do you like to do? How long is your trip? Do you want to visit the San Juan Islands at all? Is it just adults, or will you have kids with you? My recommendations will depend on your answers.
Rings
Any advice on where to buy a wedding band?
I’d like one with diamonds, and I’d prefer them to be conflict-free. I ordered one from Brilliant Earth, but after reading the comments on this site and on Yelp detailing their terrible customer service, I’m sending it back today. There are some pretty ones at Blue Nile; any feedback would be appreciated! TIA.
S
I’m really happy with my brilliant earth ring and band.
anne-on
What about checking out a local antique or jeweler’s shop? The diamonds won’t necessarily be conflict free, but you won’t contribute to any new mining. And they’re probably a heck of a lot cheaper than new. Our local jeweler has an amazing estate case – with loads of diamond bands and engagement rings.
lost academic
Blue Nile certifies their diamonds as conflict free. They have amazing service. I’ve bought several non-diamond pieces there and loved all of them, as have some friends.
http://www.bluenile.com/policies/ethical-sourcing
Calico
I’m very happy with my band from Catbird
Going Public with Mental Illness
Have any of you ladies or your significant others gone public about your/their mental illness? My DH suffers from severe depression and was recently hospitalized because he was a danger to himself. He is highly respected and works in public education and does not want to hide his illness but embrace it as part of who he is. On the one hand, I applaud him and think it is a brave, healthy step that will help to decrease the stigma around mental illness and help his staff and parents know that it is ok to have these illnesses. Another part of me is terrified for him and knows the stigma associated with mental illness and fears repercussions to his job. Any tips, experiences or resources?
Anonymous
Follow his lead.
The movement to eliminate the stigma associated with mental health is great but not everyone has to be a poster child if that’s not something comfortable for them.
In the same way that people have varying levels of comfort around disclosing physical illness, there is a spectrum in terms of who he may want to tell. He may be very public about it or he may chose to tell only a few close work friends — there is no right or wrong way here. Just encourage him to be thoughtful about what he is hoping from for each person he tells (support/acknowledgement/raising awareness).
BiP
I have bipolar disorder and have also had periods of hospitalization. My illness is well-managed by a team of doctors and I have a very successful career in a high-stress industry.
I have never gone public at work about my illness for a few reasons. First, like other medical issues, I don’t really think it is anyone’s business. When I am physicall ill or mentally ill, I take time off when needed but do not go into details as to what is wrong with me. Second, work is kind of a haven because nobody knows that I am mentally ill. While my family and friends treat me with love, they are also perpetually worried about me and often shelter me from bad news, etc. At work, I am treated like the bad@$$ successful woman I am. Nobody tiptoes around me, like they do in my personal life, and it makes me feel a lot more secure in living with my illness.
Finally, yes, I worry about stigma. I think would be assigned less challenging work, lose promotions, etc. Again, I think these are often meant as acts of compassion – coworkers and supervisors would want to help me avoid stress and unhappy triggers – but ultimately I think I would end up suffering by failing at my career.
All this said, I have informed my manager that I have a chronic illness; that while it does not usually impact work, I may occasionally need to go to doctors or take unexpected sick days. I find this kind of vague communication allows for me to have the support and flexibility I need without jeopardizing my opportunities at work.
Because this is the kind of announcement one can’t take back – and because people are so prone to gossip – your husband should think long and hard about whether he wants or needs to share. He should definitely discuss with his therapists and any kind of mentors he might have. While I understand his desire to educate his workplace and the public about mental illness, I think there may be other and more impactful ways of doing this than using himself as a model.
Lastly, not to project my own patterns onto others – but if this desire to ‘go public’ is brand new and especially impassioned, consider it may be a symptom of mania or another psychological state. He may regret the choice if he makes it rashly.
Coach Laura
BiP – this is a very helpful response. Good ideas for anyone managing a chronic condition.
Runner 5
I was totally not open about my MH problems while I was suffering from them, but I will now openly say to people I meet socially that I didn’t enjoy my first two years of university because I was having a nervous breakdown. I figure that anything that helps decrease the stigma or making someone feel less alone is good.
2 Cents
+1 When I was in the throes of deep depression in grad school, I didn’t really say anything to anyone. Now if someone asks me how my grad experience was, I make sure to include that my entire experience was colored by mental illness, which included panic attacks, paranoia, depression, anxiety and a litany of other ailments. (fun times!)
Annie
This is interesting!
I have some stuff in common with your DH. I have had really bad depression and had inpatient care about 13 years ago. On the one hand, I’m a huge fan of awareness and decreasing stigma. Normalizing it, and helping people understand that it can be a serious (and treatable) condition is very important.
On the other hand, back when I was going through that time and trying to come out of it, I reached a point where I was tired of people knowing, and I stopped being open about it. For me, I learned that an important part of avoiding future episodes was not to allow it to be acceptable. This may come across badly, and so I want to be clear: I have found, for me, that when I start to get depressed, my coping skills are incredibly important and determine whether I keep sliding down, or whether I can get back up. And one of the most powerful coping skills for me is behavioral therapy — not acting depressed. When the people around me (who love and care for me) think that I’m depressed, they get very supportive and pay lots of attention to me and all that. And while it’s a sign of their love, it’s not good for me. It’s counterproductive in a way. Probably the closest comparison is that my family and friends would enable my depression. Again, depression is a real biological illness. However, behavior and environment can affect it (that is the whole basis of CBT).
Anyhow, it’s a long answer and it’s just based on my own experience. I guess I just want to add in that the decision about whether or not to publicize your mental health issues is more than just about stigma — it can affect how other people treat you in a way that is “good” and supportive, but that may not be helpful for your long-term wellness.
OP
Thank you all for your kind and thoughtful responses.
Anonymous
Public education is often not particularly enlightened or for that matter, all that educated. It makes me sad to say this, but tread carefully. And I say that as a mental health professional with 20 years in public education.
whirlpool
Hi – Anyone out there work in a cubicle? Could you please share your strategies on how to concentrate on your work and not be distracted by sights and sounds around you?
Long-time work from home worker here just returned to a job in a cubicle — it has been a little tough going from complete quiet every day to tons of noise all around me.
Could you share what you do like about working from a cubicle?
Thank you!
Wanderlust
Invest in expensive, noise-cancelling headphones.
NotLegalCounsel
Agreed – but if your back is to people when they walk into your cubicle, put a sign up that identifies you are wearing headphones, so they don’t think you are ignoring them. A mirror that will help you see people behind you as they enter your cubicle will help, too.
AMB
One thing I like (and maybe it’s a bad habit or annoying for those who need more quiet than I) is that my co-workers and I can have conversations over the walls.
Can you angle your screen in a way that your attention is directed into the cube? If you can reduce the amount that you may see out of your peripheral vision that could help. I also put on earphones for when I really need to focus on sometime.
CountC
I keep a healthy supply of earplugs in my desk drawer and, in the event it’s truly dreadful and I can’t review an important document, I hole up in an empty office or book myself one of the small conference rooms.
It’s annoying, but you get more used to it as time goes on.
Anonymous
Headphones and the Noisli chrome extension (ambient nature sounds)
Parfait
*Noise-canceling* headphones and Noisli.
Anonymous
Shrug – mine are just regular $15 earbuds. I do want to be able to kind of hear what is going on behind me, but want to be able to block out the big distractions. But that’s what works for me.
KT
Noise-canceling headphones, a good instrumental Pandora or Spotify channel, and a to-do list can help keep you focused.
Decorate (in moderation) your cube with things important to you. Reposition your computer/chair so people don’t walk up behind you.
X
I don’t think anyone actually like working in a cubicle. It’s just the reality of working in a world where office space is limited and expensive. That said, I agree with everyone else regarding headphones. I listen to podcasts.
Suburban
Ehhh I kinda like it. I get to hear all the good jokes and gossip when people come back from court in the late afternoon. I also get to butt into over-the-wall conversations with zingers and make people laugh. Also, it’s easier to bounce questions off of people and help others. Often coworkers can hear my phone conversations and rush in to help or just commiserate. When I really have work, it’s headphone time.
NYC Treats
I get to New York fairly often from DC, but I’m usually there for work and don’t have time to leave the office. I’m heading there tomorrow for a personal trip (that will, alas, involve some time in our office there) and want to make sure I don’t miss out on the Hot New Thing. Ten years ago it was cupcakes, five years ago cronuts, two years ago macarons, but I haven’t heard of anything delicious and new and where to get it. Lay it on me!
(Note that DC recently got a Momofuku and Milk Bar, and although it’s heretical to say I honestly don’t think their cookies are much better than any other mass market cookie. Though the crack pie is legit delicious.)
NYC tech
I keep hearing good things about Superiority Burger (both for their food and ice cream), though I haven’t been myself. Seems to be one of these quirky, different types of places that can be a fun side trip.
NYC Treats
I really wanted to go there last time I was there because I’m a vegetarian, buuuuut the burgers have walnuts, to which I’m allergic. Boo.
Anonymous
I think macarons are still pretty hot. If you like chocolate, the macarons from La Maison du Chocolat in NYC are the best macarons I’ve ever had. All of them have chocolate in some form but they incorporate other flavors too, like vanilla, caramel and coffee. (They’re flown in daily from Paris like Laduree and other big name brands, all of which I think pale in comparison to LMdC).
CountC
MACARONS 4EVA!!!!
Runner 5
They fly in macarons daily from Paris…?! Is there no one in NYC who can make them? Madness.
Anonymous
Yeah, I think it’s kind of crazy too but all the top NYC macaron places brag about flying them in from Paris. I guess the Parisians do not trust Americans to not screw it up.
NYC Treats
This is an excellent tip, thank you. I had been thinking maybe I’d go to Laduree, though they’re not my favorite macarons in Paris (I like to stop into the little random patisseries), but I’ve never had La Maison du Chocolat.
Vi
If your job in their delivery zone, order maple for lunch.
Vi
* is in
Editrix
cosign. Lunch from Maple was really good.
Suburban
I like where your head’s at. I feel like old fashioned ice cream parlors are having a moment. I’m dying to try brooklyn farmacy. Have fun!
NYC Treats
Ooooh, this is a good idea. I LOVE ice cream. I usually stop in the little market at the south end of the High Line (Gansevoort/Meatpacking District–can’t remember the name of the market but not Chelsea Market) and get gelato and then walk the High Line and a couple more miles to pretend like I’m working it off. It is really good gelato. But I could totally go for an ice cream parlor.
Suburban
Oooh but now I want gelato!
Anon in NYC
I feel like donuts are having a moment. Or maybe I just eat a lot of them. If that’s the case, I would try Dough (my current favorite!).
NYC Treats
I feel like donuts are having a moment. Or maybe I just eat a lot of them. If that’s the case, I would try Dough (my current favorite!).
NYNY
If you’re still reading this, upscale food courts are having a moment. I work in the Garment District, and can say that I <3 Pennsy, a fancy food court by Penn Station. You could go to Cinnamon Snail's first non-food truck site for vegan goodies (that don't taste vegan).
NYC Treats
Oooh, this is a good intel. I will definitely be near Penn Station for the FIT Museum. I’ll have to plan it around lunch and check out Pennsy.
Meg March
Going to NOLA for a couple days this week for work. I’ve never been, and I will be back (we have clients there). What are your recs (for this time or next!)
Emmer
Was just there – can’t claim to have the knowledge of a native, but my friends and I had a blast catching all of the live music on Frenchmen street!
NotLegalCounsel
We were just there. Our two favorite meals were definitely lunch (only on Fridays during the week) at Sac-a-lait, and small plates at the bar of Herbsaint. Both are in the warehouse district. I love walking up and down Royal looking at the shops and lives bands in the streets. Frenchman > Bourbon
Beth
I love Luke in the central business district. Other favorites: Croissant d’Or on Ursilines in the Quarter, Spotted Cat for Jazz on Frenchman, Ruby Slipper for brunch in Mid City, Creole Creamery for ice cream, and recently tried 30/90 on Frenchman and was really impressed with their desserts. Have fun!
Anonymous
Nighttime ghost tour!!!!! I did one of these when I was at a conference in NOLA. It was so so so fun, and it was great because it is at night, so it doesn’t conflict with daytime work activities. It ended around 9 or ten I think? I remember being back in my hotel by a more than reasonable hour.
PJ
Go to dinner at August – John Besh’s restaurant. It is excellent.
Editrix
Ninth Ward bike tour with Confederacy of Cruisers. Hot 8 Brass Band. Cochon for brunch or dinner. La Petite Grocery on Magazine Street for dinner.
Senior Attorney
I was just there — it was awesome! Second the recommendation of Herbsaint. We also loved Muriel’s just off Jackson Square, and Irene’s. And there’s a great dive bar called Coop’s where they have amazing fried food and snarky bartenders. There’s always a line to get in but it’s worth it. Also we did a Segway tour of the French quarter and it was super dorky but ridiculously fun. Oh, and Napoleon House — ask to be seated in the courtyard.
Back-up care
Honest question for the hive. Last week’s discussion about the mother of twins who works part-time and missed 80 hours of work during a few months was really interesting to me — while I agree that she clearly didn’t fulfill her commitments to her job, I was a bit sympathetic, as I am really struggling with the solution of “you need better back up care.” A lot of people suggested general options for back up care, but I would really love to hear what some of you moms with older children actually did when your kids were little, because, honestly, most options that seem good on paper haven’t worked that well in practice. So, please, tell me what I am missing or what I am doing wrong — here is how I am looking at the options (and for what it is worth, my husband and I generally split sick days, but my kid has gotten sick twice while he was out of town for extended business trips):
1. Have local family assist — awesome option if your family is close. But like many of you, our closest family is 7 hours away and several hours from a major airport. We have, in fact, paid $1000 to fly a parent out in an emergency, but that isn’t practical if a kid wakes up at 2 am with the flu. Moving closer to family would help, but I can’t imagine that is actually an option we think working moms should have to pursue.
2. Back up day care — we are fortunate that my job provides back up day care (in home and at a center), but there are pretty strict limits as to how sick a kid can be before we can’t utilize the service (fever in excess of 101, vomiting, etc. — and this is a nationwide, name brand program). We use this when we can, but we’ve found its usefulness to be pretty limited. Plus, I will be honest, I am really uncomfortable leaving my kid at home with a stranger. I wouldn’t do this if my husband and I wanted to go out to dinner and it seems even worse to do it when a kid is sick.
3. Leave with a neighborhood SAHM — this one baffles me. If your kid is too sick to go to school, are you really going to ask another mother to keep him at her home with her kids? What am I missing.
4. Leave with elderly neighbor or babysitter — this seems most practical to me and I have looked into it and completely struck out. Everyone on care.com is only interested in full time work and my neighborhood is pretty young. I’d love suggestions as to how people found someone to fit this need.
What else am I missing? Again, I would really love to hear some actual examples of what people have done.
Anonymous
I think missing 80 hours or whatever that poster did was a lot, but that’s a really unusual situation. For the average illness, you can take sick leave to be at home with your child. I had two working parents growing up (in a red state in the 1980s, when it was pretty rare — all my friends had SAHMs) and one of them always took off work to stay home with me when I was sick. If there are two parents, neither should have to miss that much work unless the kid is extremely sick.
Anonymous
disagree that 80 hours is a lot over a year.
My daughter’s first year of formal daycare at age three resulted in her being home with a cold for at least part of a week/sometimes full week every month from January to May. She had been in a smaller dayhome before that. A reliable nanny in the first year or two can be crucial to minimizing sick leave.
Anonymous
I think that poster missed a huge chunk of time (somewhere around 80 hours) in a two or three month span. I totally agree 80 hours is not a lot over the year.
anon
It was 80 hours in two months, I think, and she was only suppsoed to be working 20 hour weeks or something.
OP
I think the issue is less about the number of days and more about the fact that there are days that are really hard to take off unexpectedly (big meetings, etc.) DH and I look at our schedules and see whose day is busier, but there are days when it is really, really bad for either of us to be home. And, our kid has managed to get sick multiple times when DH was traveling.
And, it isn’t usually just one day. Our preschool (like most) has a 24 hour fever/vomit free rule. So, if kiddo is out Monday with a fever, chances are that he can’t go back the following day, even if he is fever free.
Anonymous
I remember that thread and I was surprised about the reactions. I’ve never known anyone with reliable back up care in place that isn’t family for many of the reasons you suggest. And even then – many grandparents are not able to care for multiple sick children at a time for more than a day or two.
We live close to family so option 1 is our go to. For a week of illness – it’s pretty much me home day one, grandparents day 2-3, DH day 4 and grandparents day 5. Grandparents may also do a part day if I or DH have a conference call we need to call into.
For those without family nearby, the best you may get is having your regular evening babysitter (whoever you call when you go to dinner/movies) come over whenever available and work from home when she is there. For a slightly older child (not babies) I would be okay with option 2 if the person is at our house and I’m working from home. Can’t imagine leaving a sick baby with a stranger.
Anonymous
Adding that I have three kids – grandparents used to be able to handle a week of care when there was only one.
OP
Thanks Anon! This is exactly my thought — back up care sounds great, but I don’t know anyone that has a good plan in place, other than local family.
Sadly, our evening babysitters both work full-time during the week. I’ve been looking for someone that doesn’t work but haven’t had any luck. Plus, unless the person was a retired, wouldn’t you question why they didn’t have a job?
Agree that I would use back up care (i.e., a stranger in my house) with an older kid.. but I just can’t get there yet,
Anonymous
Try looking for a local college or university student. If they have a day without classes or a free morning or afternoon they might be able to pinch hit on short notice which results in you only having to take off a half day or be able to work from home for a few hours and actually get something done.
The students in elementary education/nursing/social work programs are often very open to occasional child care because it’s a reference and resume builder for them.
JJ
I recently discovered that a local nanny agency near my family has an emergency, back-up care option that you can pay for. I haven’t looked into it, but I didn’t know it existed and I’m hoping it fills our needs.
For reference: We live near family, but my in-laws both work and my parents are spry but always take forever to get better when they get sick. I only call them in for true emergencies, because I hate to spread whatever daycare germs we have to my parents. Otherwise, husband and I split working from home on days when the kids are sick.
Anonymous
Re: Option 1. Having local family assist
I’ll raise my hand as someone who moved ‘home’ to be near family (actually in-laws) just for this type of scenarios. My husband travels a lot for work, leaving for extended periods of time. When he’s home, he handles 100% of our sick days. When he’s traveling, if I need to be at work and kid is sick, then he heads over to grandma and grandpa’s or his aunt and uncle’s house (they work 12 hour shift schedules so it’s pretty common that one of them is at home and off on a random Tuesday).
We do have a good school vacation schedule set up- we have a set of friends whose offspring are in the same age group as ours. We each rotate taking a day or two off during the week and watching all the kiddos. This way, instead of blowing all our vacation time on Holiday/Winter/Spring break, we can all save up the time for ‘real’ vacations. I highly recommend it. Also, when you just have to amuse the kids for 1 day, it’s not that bad!! 5 days would be a lot for me…
Blonde Lawyer
This is what a couple of my friends do for sick days too. They work odd schedules so they take each other’s sick kids when necessary and return the favor.
Betty
A couple of thoughts (I have two kids: 2.5 and 5 and DH and I both work full-time). First, you aren’t doing anything wrong. This is the hard stuff of being a working parent. For me, my world is only so good as my childcare.
1. We are incredibly fortunate to have family local that I can call for the flu/croup/pink eye at the drop of the hat. But, even if you don’t have family who are local, we have called in the inlaws from 1000 miles away when we knew day care would be closed for a week, nanny had a week off, etc.
2. I completely agree about leaving my kid with a stranger, but if you go through a reputable agency, it really isn’t that bad, and you may find yourself having the same person respond multiple times.
3. Neighborhood SAHM: What I have found is that there are plenty of moms whose threshold for having a kid over is lower than the daycare/school threshold: colds, croup, other illnesses that your kid has already had may not phase another mom.
4. Work from home: I am fortunate that I have the ability to work from home. If I have a sick kid and need to stay home, I generally take a 1/2 day off and try and put some time in. This has become much easier as my kids have gotten older and sick days involve cartoons on the couch and napping (no more screaming baby for hours on end).
Meg Murry
Yes, regarding the neighborhood SAHM – while I wouldn’t hand over a puking baby to her, many are willing to take the on situations like “daycare sent him home yesterday with a fever of 101, and he can’t go back for 24 hours but he hasn’t had a fever at all since dinnertime”
Regarding situations like your husband traveling when kids get sick: if he doesn’t travel often and it is with advanced notice, try to schedule a light week that week. My husband only travels 2-4 times a year, and those times are on the calendar weeks to months in advance – so I’ll schedule a tentative vacation day or two during that week, and/or a work from home few days, try to push off any customer meetings to times other than that week (or at least until afternoon so if I have to scramble for care at least I have a few hours to do so), and do my best to make sure one of my junior employees and/or boss is filled in to pinch hit if possible. Obviously that doesn’t work if your job requires lots and lots of meetings, meetings that that you have minimal input in the scheduling of, or if your husbands job requires extensive or last minute travel – but after a few years I’ve basically just learned to assume that whatever can go wrong that week, will go wrong, and to plan for the worst. Luckily I work in a moderately family-friendly office with a lot of collaboration on projects, and its well understood that if my co-worker covers for me one week, I’ll have his/her back when they need it another time.
kc esq
This is one of the reasons why some people with multiple young kids elect to have a nanny, rather than daycare. You have to deal with coverage when the nanny is sick — but your backup work coverage could work for that — but you are not dealing with daycare rules that refuse to accept a kid, potentially for multiple days in a row, because of illness symptoms that can drag out. For instance, a kid is sick under any definition if he is puking. But some daycares refuse a kid or send him home if his poop is loose, which, in my opinion is not a big deal and can be a real pain for working parents. The latter scenario may also be one where you can call on a local SAHM.
anon
but you do have to be able to afford a nanny, which we definitely cannot.
Anonymous
Getting a nanny to work on the books is hard. Having a nanny off the books is not a viable option for many of us.
Plus, every good-nanny story I hear is countered by >1.5 bad / unreliable / good until she quit with no notice nanny stories, so YMMV considerably.
a
agree with this. having a nanny allows you to leave a sick kid at home in good hands – and I think one of the things that surprised people about the earlier poster is that she was staying home when her nanny was there to care ofthe twins (which then led to some other points about the seriousness of her kids health, nanny issues, etc., that were pretty specific to her situation). In most cases, I suspect that having a reliable nanny would result in fewer sick days (though the nanny can always be sick too).
Diana Barry
We have a nanny and fortunately (knock on wood!) she doesn’t get sick a lot. If our nanny is sick, I stay with the kids. As long as I get my hours in, people seem not to care whether I am in the office or not.
Not sure what we will do when all the kids are in school – but I think my parents will be moving to be near us by that time (3 years out) so if our nanny wants to get another job, she could. We are also contemplating moving our nanny into more secretarial work for our businesses so that she could do that PT and take care of the kids PT.
Anonymous
My kids are older now, but we had a sudden chronic illness hit once where we had NO PLAN AT ALL and we were thinking we’d have to hire a private duty nurse to help out (we didn’t, but our family members are a flight away and many are so much older that we couldn’t have expected them to actually help much (like they are unsteady on their feet and struggle on the stairs or are someone’s chemo driver every day)).
TALK to daycares, especially big chains and see if they will send one of their subsitutes to your house (maybe will and have arrangements with employers to do this — e.g. bright horizons). Also church day cares. Community colleges with early childhood programs. Borrow someone on their on-call list for a day and pay them and have your kid get to know them. You go to work as usual. Do this a few times, before people get sick so you have a plan and people know you when something happens.
My across the street neighbor is a SAHM and I’d never think to ask her — she has 4 kids and a sick stranger would be totally disruptive. [When mine are sick, it’s often a throw-up bug, so I’m not sure who’d want them.]
My main backup is me working from home — it’s rough.
Anonymous
Part of the issue is that the poster last week took 2-3 weeks *at a time* and did not split with her spouse (also working). Not a sick kid where you take the day off and need backup care, but a full week.
So while I do not have day-of back up care, I do have a way to get someone to help me out if my kid is sick for a full week or more–specifically, I hire a sitter.
When I have a kid out for a day or two, my husband and I usually split it. Or we both work from home and take partial time off (eg. he works from home in the AM, or goes into the office for the morning, then comes home and takes over while I try to get some work done).
Anonymous
This. We don’t have great back-up options – no local grandparents, all local family are also employed FT, and we use daycare (which we love!). That said, I have never actually taken a full day off for a sickness. We’ve always split. Even when LO was really young and I was nursing (which I tried to do more when LO was sick), I would work from home and H would be the primary caregiver for at least a portion of the day. Unless your spouse travels, there should be some give and take. Even if you can’t split up a day (say, you’re a teacher), you can alternate days.
Anonymous
To be fair, the kid was tiny and in the hospital.
I had a coworker with 4 kids and a working spouse have a car with some kids + spouse get into a major accident a few hours from where they live (no local family). Clearly, she could not work then (and it was weeks with them in the hospital, other kids not in the hospital, going back and forth, PT and follow-up visits at home, etc.; even when the spouse got released, she was still on the hook as the sole well driver of the family). It would have been the same as if she had had a heart attack — you are not at work for a good reason and work just has to deal without you.
The first year is rough and the hospital thing was what I think of as a non-repeating fluke. We are all skating on thin ice with backup care. Maybe workplaces should see how they would benefit by having some sort of backup care / catastrophic leave sort of policy.
[Guys just get to have their heart attack / gall bladder / etc. problems and we go on. Yet babies -schedule drama is all the woman’s fault for not planning better.]
anon
Only the first time was in a hospital. One was a week off for hand foot and mouth. They were tiny, I know, but we definitely split up duties for HFM…
Network
I haven’t done this, but I would encourage you to reach out to a local college (or law school or grad school), if one exists. Find someone who regularly works with students (in the career services center or student life office), and ask them to provide you with the contact information of several students who can help in a pinch. College students usually have more flexibility, and need money. Ask them to babysit a few times so that you aren’t only calling last minute.
I’ve also found back-up sitters on my local neighborhood and moms’ listserves. I join any listserve that will take me, and have sent out late night requests for last minute sitters. Often, if a family is out of town, a nanny may have extra time.
After a few runs, you’ll find a few reliable candidates who you are comfortable trusting. Even if they can’t do it, they’ll plug you into a network of their friends that can help (nannies often know other nannies who are looking for work, and college students usually have friends who are happy to pitch in). Over the last 3.5 years of parenting, I”ve developed a network of caregivers, and I’ve definitely struck out, but it’s a better balance than always having to take the time off. Also, my employer knows I employ back-up plans, and so is very understanding if I actually can’t find someone to step in.
CHJ
Our back-up plan is that DH and I both work from home when DS is sick. That way, we can trade off on conference calls and getting work done without having to be the only parent on duty for the whole day. We also let DS watch a lot of TV on sick days. Like, hours of TV.
Ultimately we’re each able to put in about 6 hours of work uninterrupted. It’s not as good as being in the office with no childcare responsibilities, but neither one of us falls terribly behind either.
Anonymous
I’ve done this (esp. during snow days).
I can give you the Amen for hours of TV.
JJ
We do this (and have done it on snow days, as well). We’ll stagger our meetings/conference calls so there’s always one parent to keep the kiddo quiet (usually by turning on Paw Patrol, no shame). It’s
JJ
We do this (and have done it on snow days, as well). We’ll stagger our meetings/conference calls so there’s always one parent to keep the kiddo quiet (usually by turning on Paw Patrol, no shame).
Stormtrooper
I’m a single parent and until my little one was in 2nd grade, had no family within 500 miles.
If my child was sick, there really was no other option other than me staying home. Luckily, most of the time, I was able to cancel meetings or work around it – obviously not ideal. Sometimes, I could employ one of the strategies below. Only once did I have to do what feels like the unthinkable – someone at my office volunteered to watch my child for an hour while I covered a hearing that I couldn’t move and couldn’t get coverage for. AWFUL! When that happened, I knew I had to figure something out. I ended up signing up for a nanny service that guaranteed emergency care within 2 hours. It had a fairly hefty sign up fee (I think $300), but the peace of mind I got was worth it.
Things I’ve done:
– For extended illnesses and things like tonsils coming out, I flew a family member in to help.
– I had, over time, accumulated a team of potential sitters through care.com and asking around a lot. I would call them. Most of the time, nobody was available, and I’d have to work from home.
– Sign up for a nanny service. The nanny service I ended up signing up for a couple years ago guarantees that they’ll get someone to me within 2 hours of noticing them of the need. The hourly rate is not cheap and since signing up, I’ve actually not had to use it, but the peace of mind was worth it to me. I know that if I have a big meeting or hearing or something and my kiddo gets sick and none of my back up sitters are available, the nanny service can come through for me.
– Our local hospital has a sick care day care. As long as your child doesn’t have certain categories, you can take your child there for the day. It’s not ideal for so many reasons (more germs!), but as a single parent who has to make this work, it’s an option that I researched and know about, but luckily have not had to use.
For the most part, I’ve managed back up care mostly by working only at firms where I know I can be flexible. 80 hours off for sick is something that wouldn’t work, but a few days off in a row for a stomach flu or strep throat etc. was fine. I am able to work remotely.
Anon
We have three kids and my husband’s new job is not flexible at all. He almost never takes off unless it is scheduled vacation months in advance. My job is much more flexible and I can usually work from home if I need to with a sick child. The sick kid ends up watching lots of TV that day and now at 5 and 7 (our oldest is a teenager and can stay home alone) can typically be quiet long enough if I have a client phone call or something. My MIL also lives nearby and recently retired, so she is available to help now too. Before she retired, my husband had a different job and he would just call in sick and stay home. We really valued that flexibility. I remember when I was little, my mom had a friend who stayed home but her kids were school-aged and so if we were sick we would go stay with her or she would come to our house.
a
We are a two-lawyer family with an amazing professional nanny that we’ve had since my youngest (now 5) was a baby … and I don’t know how we’d manage were it not for in-town, retired grandparents who will drop everything at the drop of the hat (if nanny is sick, if we have to work on the weekend more than we can juggle between ourselves, if we need to travel). Having in-town family is a huge (HUGE) factor and I honestly don’t know how my friends who have two demanding jobs and don’t have in-town help manage.
Meg Murry
Honestly, this situation is also the sad truth as to why some families wind up having one parent lean out, or spend a full salary’s worth of income on a nanny or a combination thereof. Juggling 2 careers going full speed with a kid is hard, especially during the early years when they catch every bug going around.
It wouldn’t be a cheap option, but if you can develop a relationship with a babysitter that is available during the day and you have a little bit of notice for your husband’s work travel, you could also use the plan-for-the-worst option of scheduling the babysitter instead of daycare for days when you know your husband is traveling and you have a day at work that you just can’t miss. The nice thing about that is then you also don’t have to worry about daycare drop-off, feeding breakfast or packing lunch that day, so you can get to work a little earlier to prepare.
Unfortunately, the other terrible, horrible situation is when your spouse is traveling and YOU get sick. I got smacked with strep last time my husband was traveling, and it was the sickest I’ve been in year. I had to lean so hard on my family, because I had a fever of 103 and didn’t feel steady walking from the living room to the kitchen, let alone driving or cooking dinner for the kids. It was awful, and I was so grateful for my parents and in-laws.
Anonymous
We had a period of time where we needed to be home with a sick child for two weeks. My husband and Itook shifts at being home. I would arrive at work by 6:30 in the morning and work to 12:30 -1pm. My husband left the minute I got home and worked 2:00 to 8:00 or as late as he needed to be there. It was exhasuting but both our employers appreciated that we were making a stong effort to not let work suffer during a difficult time. My kids are in college now but through 18 plus years of being a working mother I’ve found that if I gave more than 100% in work and dedication during the good times my employers were happy to accomodate me during the times when life got in the way.
Mansplaining
Can we just rant for a minute about men who ‘mansplain’? My male boss is the worst. He frequently repeats the exact thing a woman has just said, as though it’s his own idea. But even worse, he always always always interrupts. I’ve started saying things like, “yes, that’s what I just suggested,” or “sorry, let me just finish this thought…” But it drives me insane.
His boss is a woman and he even does this to her. Recently in a meeting, he interrupted her mid-sentence, PUT HIS HAND IN FRONT OF HER FACE, and said “I know what you’re going to say, so I’m going to say it for you.” It is seriously Kanye-level. After this, he proudly crossed his arms and said “see, isn’t that what you were going to say?” She said no, but I don’t think he got any further reprimand for this.
anything to do but roll my eyes? Anyone else just want to complain with horror stories?
Anonymous
This happens to me all the time with discussions about sports. Even when I’m PARTICIPATING IN THE CONVERSATION they say things like “Oh, we know you don’t understand the rules of football, let me explain…” or “So sorry, you can’t participate in the conversation, Anon!”…when I have literally *just* said something on point. It. drives. me. crazy. In my case, there’s no one person to complain about, so I just roll my eyes.
JJ
As a fellow sports fan, this is one of my pet peeves. Usually, I’m interrupted with something that is factually incorrect, too. I know sports! Better than most casual male fans!
Anonymous
Try “I’m glad you agree with what I said earlier” instead of “yes, that’s what I just suggested,”
And wine, lots of wine.
Anon
Good for you for responding to him – that sounds so frustrating. I would (gently) remind you to not say “sorry, let me finish my thought.” Just say “let me finish my thought” or “excuse me, let me finish my thought.” I totally get the need to throw a “sorry” in there, but “excuse me” is the better alternative if anything. You need to be on your A game when you’re dealing with a jerk like that! Don’t give him any reason to think that YOU’RE the one in the wrong.
bridget
A cold, emotionless “Excuse me” (more of a statement than a question) might do the trick.
MJ
If this is a colleague, and not a superior, I wouldn’t hesitate to take him aside and say, “You may not realize you’re doing this, but….[examples].” Either he’ll hear you or he won’t. But at least you’ll have said it.
I would also bring it up with the female boss and say that it’s not conducive to open workplace dialogue and see where that goes.
oiseau
Help! My ex-boyfriend, whom I still miss and love very much, just texted me and said he’d be in town this weekend to give me back my stuff. We broke up a month ago and this is the first contact we’ve had since the day we broke up.
How do I stop crying at work so my staff doesn’t see me like this? Where should I meet up with him? How do I avoid crying when I see him and telling him how much I miss him? Etc. etc.
Anonymous
Meet up with him in a public place – think Starbucks. Take a friend with you and have brunch/dinner reservations with that friend for shortly after so you have to leave quickly.
cbackson
No suggestions for today, but take a friend with you when you meet him to get your stuff. Or have him drop it off somewhere. Actually, yes, do that – have him drop it off. DO NOT SEE HIM.
Carrots
This. When i had to get stuff from my boyfriends’ house right after we broke up, I did at a time when I knew he would be at work and i took my best friend with me as well. It was still heart breaking to do it without him there and I had to take a moment before we drove off and just bawled. If I had seen him, I think it would have been 5x worse.
Anonymous
Personally, I’d avoid meeting up with him. Have a friend meet him to get your stuff.
Anonymous
Same here. And I would do this for ANY of my friends, no question.
Anonymous
Heck, I’d do this for almost anyone
Anonymous 2
I am on vacation in Maui and if it is anywhere near me I will go and pick up your stuff.
oiseau
I wish! I bet Hawaii would cheer me up.
Anonymous 2
It would. BUT – this too shall pass and you are so much better off putting one foot in front of the other. Don’t go back – I know you want to but you also know in your heart that it’s not going to happen. He let you go in the first place and that is proof enough that it wasn’t right to start with. I know it has been a dreadful month but you are a month closer to the wonderful life you were meant to have.
I promise I was in the same place as you 21 years ago and the last 20 of those have been totally awesome with the guy I met months after the supposed love of my life let me go.
Hang in there – love and Aloha from an internet stranger, most sincerely meant. Keep us posted and know that we are rooting for you!
oiseau
Thank you, that’s very kind and comforting. I hope you’re right!
Anonymous 2
I should clarify that when I say he “let me go” I mean that I ended it because of some behaviour on his part. It was incredibly painful but totally the right move and I knew it in my head, even though it took my heart a long time to catch up to that. You’ll get there. I am right. And listen to everything Senior Attorney is telling you – she is a wise, wise woman.
You’ll get there. I PROMISE.
KT
This is a situation for TaskRabitt or Lazy Delivery. Outsource the problem! Hire someone or ask a friend to pick up your stuff, don’t put yourself through having to meet up with him and make polite small talk.
Senior Attorney
Yes. Don’t put yourself through a meeting with him.
Duckles
I feel you. I found out the hard way last night I have to go in person with my ex (who I haven’t seen in 9 months) to split my phone line off of his plan now that the contract is finally up…
oiseau
Uggh, painful, I’m really sorry!
Delta Dawn
Do you really need the stuff? You haven’t had it for a month– can you just live without it? If you have to have it, can he just drop it off somewhere? No good can come from seeing him.
As for trying not to cry at work, is there any way you could take the rest of today off? Go get something delicious, or go to the gym, or both? If you can’t leave work, is there something you’ve been wanting to buy that you can order online? Sometimes if I’m really sad like this, knowing that a pair of awesome shoes is on its way to me can make me feel better (and be a good distraction).
But really, don’t see him. Disaster waiting to happen.
oiseau
I already bought myself a really nice clothbound set of Jane Austen novels! ;)
If no good can come from seeing him, then why do I want it so much? :(
CHJ
You want to see him so much because you’re grieving, and it feels like seeing him in any way, even just for a moment, will take away a small piece of that pain. When I was going through a very difficult breakup, I read that breakups hit the same part of our brain as heroin withdrawal. You would do anything to ease that pain even for a moment.
But spoken from experience, it won’t help. Seeing him won’t transport you back in time to when you were still together and happy. Instead, it will feel weird and cold and distant. Like looking at him through aquarium glass.
I’m with everyone else – have one of your friends meet him and get the stuff. Have that friend hold onto the stuff for a while until you don’t care as much anymore. Hang in there – breakups are awful.
oiseau
Yes, I think you’re right. :'( I just really don’t want this to be the end.
Senior Attorney
The developmental task you have on your plate at the moment is to break the attachment to him. It’s horribly painful and it takes time. If you see him, you will experience a setback that will make the process take longer. You know you don’t want that. Just say no to seeing him.
When I left my husband, he claimed he didn’t want the separation. But then he maintained total radio silence after I left — didn’t call, didn’t text, didn’t anything. I was heartbroken. But you know what? That was the best thing he could have done. It really helped break the attachment faster than if we’d been in contact.
And yes, I spent weeks repeating multiple times a day, “The developmental task in front of me is to break the attachment… the developmental task in front of me is to break the attachment…”
oiseau
Hi Senior Attorney–when I posted a couple months ago about our relationship, you said it reminded you of the situation with your ex-husband and that the final straw for you had been something like an argument over whether you had to deserve it for him to be kind to you. Anyway, wanted to share that I also ended this relationship when he said something similar (about not feeling the desire to be kinder to me than to a random stranger). So I guess you were pretty spot-on with your comparison!
Yeah, I really don’t want to break the attachment. :( That’s my problem.
Senior Attorney
Gah. Girl, you deserve so much better. You are addicted to him and you need to get clean!
Eliza
Yes. Not seeing him also takes some of your power back. You may be sad, you may be grieving, but taking some control will make you feel better.
oiseau
You are right about the power situation, Eliza.
Peach Pye
Seconded.
Abandon the “stuff”. This meeting won’t be worth it.
oiseau
Thanks, all. Of course, I desperately *want* to see him…but I don’t think I’ll be able to keep it together.
Anonymous
The fact that you want to see him is all the more reason you shouldn’t.
oiseau
Uggh, I’m sure you’re right. :(
New Tampanian
For today at work, if you have your own space (office) close the door, blinds, and just breath. Watch cute/funny animal videos for a little. H*ll, this is what online shopping was made for (give yourself a limit). Think about the things that are infinitely better now (no more snoring, fun single girl behavior, etc.).
Finally, be gentle with yourself. It’s tough. Anticipate that it will be tough. Allow yourself to have the feelings. Just don’t act in a way contrary to what you know is going to be good for you.
I like the ideas of either 1) having him drop it all somewhere for you or b) have a friend go with you and have plans with said friend for immediately after. Make sure it’s a strong friend and not one who will allow you to just ditch them.
In the alternative…. have him send the stuff to you. This is why there’s a post office.
oiseau
I suggested mailing it when he texted me, but then he said he’d be in town this weekend. I’m not sure what his deal is. I guess I shouldn’t try to find out…
Anonymous
His deal is he is too cheap and lazy to mail it. “Great. Please let it outside my door between 9-10:30 Saturday”. And then don’t be there.
CountC
Nope! Tell him that’s great he’ll be in town and he has two options, drop it off wherever he can drop it off without you present or meet up with your friend to exchange. If he doesn’t like either of those options, he can mail the stuff to you and you don’t care where it has to be mailed from.
You’re going to reopen the wounds and it won’t be helpful for your emotional or mental well-being. This is a situation where you have to take care of yourself first because no one else is going to do it for you, even though it’s really hard. I believe in you and I believe you can be strong!
oiseau
Thanks for the kind words…though it’s not exactly reopening wounds, as they’ve never been closed in the first place.
And you are right, no one else is going to take care of me. It’s just hard because I really want to see him and talk to him. And get back together with him. Argh.
to oiseau
based on your comments above — it seems like you don’t want to get back together with him — you want to get back together with who you wish he was (a nice person). Unfortunately he is not that person and you are better off without him and finding the person out there who doesn’t find it hard to be nice to people.
Anonymous
Yes, “to oiseau”–that times a million. It is helpful to think of it like that.
oiseau
oops, that was my comment above.
Trapped
Yesterday I found out that I didn’t get a job I desperately wanted. I feel very trapped in my job right now. I know I could switch firms, but I don’t know that private practice is right for me.
Anonymous
I recently switched firms. And it did not help me to feel any less trapped. And now I feel worse off because I’m new to another place and feel like I need to wait to make another move. Stay where you are and keep fighting for the job you want!
Avery
+1 to this!
cbackson
I like this skirt a lot, although I hate the styling – that cardigan seems to hit at a really awkward place.
SunshineMBA
I’m trying to use my time more wisely in my personal life. I’m mid thirty’s, single (not dating), home owner, no kids. I normally leave work around 5PM, get home around 6PM (Most often, I don’t have to take work home but it does come up if Ive just launched a project).
Can I get an idea from women in a similar situation what your weeknight evenings look like? What you try to accomplish or what you put off to the weekend.
Anonymous
I usually work 8-6, hit the gym after work until 8/8:30, then just do dinner/lunch prep, and watch an episode of something or other. I try to do laundry during the week, but leave almost all my other errands/tasks to the weekend. Sometimes I try to schedule a massage or other appointments in the evening where possible, or go for a walk or bike ride with friends, but 8/10 work days, I just go to the gym after work.
CountC
Mid-30s, single, no kids, home-owner, and I leave work around 4:00 p.m. I have a several hobbies that (can) consume most of my time. Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays are a variety of running/working out (if I didn’t do it over lunch), yoga, painting, volunteering, or reading (which can happen at a winery if it’s nice out). Tuesdays and Thursdays are nights that I go to the barn to ride.
Sydney Bristow
I’m married without kids and get home around 6. I typically shower then eat dinner then either read, watch tv, or work on a project.
Lately I’ve been organizing my Goodreads list and trying to sync it up with my library wish list. I’ve been doing that at night while watching tv. Once that is finished I’m planning to organize my notecards that I have filled with notes from books I’ve read. Then I’m going to start writing and restart my blog. I like to have a project in mind. I’d like to learn how to code an app at some point (I have an idea for a game). I’m planning to take a photography class and will work on my skills in the evenings at some point. Eventually I want to learn another language.
I’m typically in bed around 10 or 10:30 after I’ve packed my lunch and laid out my clothes. Aside from dishes and other minor chores, I don’t do anything like laundry or more involved cleaning until Sunday mornings.
Anonymous
Early 30s, live in the city, and am a huge extrovert. On a typical weeknight, I leave work at 6 and then have a few options: 1) go work out, 2) happy hour, 3) some sort of outing with one or more friends (usually a local free event – there are lots of online mailing lists with these sorts of events), 4) go to a regularly scheduled thing that I do like book club or an event for one of the community service organizations I belong to, 5) go for a walk or a run with a friend, 6) go to some sort of professional-related event. I usually have dinner around 8:30/9, either out with friends or at home. I then putter around for a bit, do some laundry/organizing, read a book, and then get to bed around 11:30.
Amy H.
Chorus rehearsal! Not every night, certainly, but I do save laundry and grocery shopping (and some cooking for the work week ahead) for the weekends.
KT
Soo since I’m constantly trying to maximize my spare time so I can freelance more or actually get quality time with DH and puppy, I decided to go ahead and splurge on grocery delivery. I’m using Shipt, where a personal shopper picks up everything and brings it to your door.
I LOVE this idea–grocery shopping is one of my most dreaded tasks and always ended up being Sunday nights, but I still feel guilty spending money on something people do all the time for themselves. I grew up poor and the idea of hiring “help” was something only people on Tv did so I guess that plays a role, but I can’t shake it and it makes me second guess my decisions.
Any commiseration?
Anonymous
Not really the commiseration you’re looking for but my husband had a similar issue with us hiring house cleaners. My strong view is that all work is valuable. I don’t feel guilty about paying someone to clean my house or deliver groceries because that results in more quality time with my family which is something worth paying for.
Don’t feel guilty about using a service that provides someone with a job and makes your life easier.
To quote Daniel Tiger “Everyone’s job is important, everyone helps in different ways.”
Anonymous
I think it’s pretty crazy, unless you’re really working so much you can’t go to the grocery store. As you said, most people manage to do this themselves. I didn’t grow up poor and we had a cleaning service, but this (I think fairly recent) idea that every single errand or household chore should be outsourced is a strange one to me.
Mindy
KT, do NOT let anyone else shame you. There is nothing wrong with having a grocery delivery (it’s a fairly standard service in places like NYC and London). It’s your money and your (limited) time, so feel free to outsource chores that you don’t want to do. We all have to decide on our own priorities and there’s nothing wrong with prioritizing couple time over grocery shopping.
By this logic, your family shouldn’t have had a cleaning service because most people manage to clean themselves.
Runner 5
Agreeing that in the UK grocery delivery is totally standard. I do it and feel zero guilt – it keeps me out of the grocery store and away from temptation, and means that I have enough energy to actually cook with the food I buy!
Managing to clean
We have cleaners every 4 weeks.
Why ever?
Husband will not clean.
Husband will not tidy.
Cleaners = at least every 4 weeks, he has to tidy a bit (I have also started inviting people over more: he doesn’t want to look like a slob so will take an interest in tidying then, too).
I can clean messes as they are made and tidy my / children’s things (and show them how to tidy), but this way the house has a good sanitizing scrub (that I not do b/c no one ever helps me and it’s worth paying vs being resentful; also: saving time)
Why not more often:
$, for one, but I would love for them to come every other week
House would have to be regularly more tidy than people are willing to do (I do not want to pay cleaners to clean around piles — put the d*mn piles where they go).
Anonymous
I don’t think it’s crazy at all in NYC and London. My in-laws live in NYC and actually pay less for groceries (delivered from New Jersey via a delivery service) than they would for groceries from a tiny grocery store that has to pay insane Manhattan rents. Even if they had to pay for the delivery, it makes more sense to me if you live in a city and don’t have a car and it’s inconvenient to get home on public transit with a huge bag of groceries. But when you live in a suburban area and have a car, going to the grocery store just doesn’t seem like that big a deal to me.
Obviously, she can do whatever she wants, but she asked for peoples opinions, and to me it seems wasteful in a way a cleaning service doesn’t.
Mindy
Managing to clean — so I’ve discovered that inviting people over actually forces my fiance to clean too! that was an AMAZING discovery :)
KT
Thanks Mindy :)
Anonymous
Working 60 hour weeks without a stay at home spouse is also a fairly recent idea too, though… I don’t have a cleaning service but I desperately want one (can’t quite justify it in the budget yet). If I had a stay at home spouse to go grocery shopping and clean etc, then I think it’d be crazy to pay someone, but in a household where it’s one person or both people work a ton, I don’t think it’s crazy. There is a point where time becomes more important than money.
cbackson
Not sure why it’s crazy to pay someone to do something so that you can enjoy more of your free time. What’s crazy about that? I derive no enjoyment from grocery shopping, so I pay someone $20 to buy my groceries for me. I absolutely get more than $20 of happiness from the time on the weekend that I do NOT spend at Publix. It’s only crazy if you place no economic value on your time.
Opal
I file this under the “You do you” category. If you find value in it, then do it. Period.
Initially, we used grocery delivery on weekends we’re going to be away overnight, getting back late Sunday, making Sunday shopping a major hassle. However, after a few weekends in a row lately, I’m obsessed. Beyond the convenience factor, we spend less – WAY less (to the tune of $50/week), even with a $6.95 delivery charge, because there are no impulse purchases. I sometimes still stop by our local farmers market to pick up some fresh produce at some point during the week, but for everything else it’s amazing.
KT
I found that too! I actually saved money because I wasn’t throwing random crap in the cart when I was grumpy/hungry
Anonymous
I like to control what I buy so would not outsource it. I am not an aisle shopper and much of my grocery shopping is impulse in a sense that I buy what is good and on sale, and my purchases drive the cooking for my family. I stopped at a store for some basics last week and found lots of lamb at amazing prices (I don’t celebrate Easter, so it was not really on my radar, LOL), so the family got an unexpected treat of braised lamb shanks. If I planned on buying apples and saw pears on sale, I’d swap. This flexibility is hard to support when you hire out.
I can see a woman or a couple with small children outsourcing grocery shopping if they have the budget, but in your situation I think it’s an indulgence that could be skipped.
Anonymous
Why would she skip the “indulgence” if it means more time with DH?
cbackson
“Indulgence” seems like a pretty morally loaded word. If she can afford it, why is it an “indulgence”? From your email, it seems that you enjoy grocery shopping – that there’s a pleasure in the discovery of a surprise value, a surprise sale, etc. For many people, it is not a pleasurable activity, or there’s another activity that they enjoy more, and the trade-off is worth it. Morality is not at play here.
Anonymous
Come on. Anything you buy that you don’t need is an indulgence. Of course we all indulge on things we want, whether that’s fancy clothes or nice vacations or grocery delivery. But grocery delivery service is by definition an indulgence (unless you’re physically unable to shop for yourself), because it’s not necessary, and something like 98% of people in the US make do without it. It may be an indulgence that’s worth it to her if she values her time more than the money it would cost, and that’s fine, but it is absolutely an indulgence and getting all morally indignant about that word is absurd.
cbackson
I think it’s a stretch to describe my response as “morally indignant” – this is, to me, absolutely an issue that morality doesn’t bear on. But your response to the OP does strongly imply a value judgement, because your final sentences which contrast the OP’s situation to that of a family with children, seem to indicate your view not only that she can do without this (which she knows) but that she *should*. I’m interested in where that “should” comes from. Particularly since you’re clearly coming from the place of a person who enjoys something that the OP has expressly indicated she does not enjoy.
12:34
I’m not Anon at 11:29 and I think the OP should get grocery delivery if she wants it and can afford it, but I don’t think it’s unreasonable to describe it as an indulgence that can be skipped. It is an indulgence. It can be skipped.
Anonymous
Unless I misses something, I don’t think that the OP to the grocery delivery thread was asking the “Judgy Janes” of Corporette to pick up the tab for said grocery delivery. Right????
Anonymous
If you can afford it why not?
Bonnie
You should not feel guilty at all. There are many things that we all CAN do but don’t like oil changes, and sewing our own clothing. I like to grocery shop because it’s one of the few toddler-free moments in my life but it’s good to outsource it if it’s a source of stress for you.
Senior Attorney
I still remember one night many many years ago when I had a toddler and was in the middle of a long trial. I found myself in the grocery store in the middle of the night and all I could think was how happy I was to be by myself for a few minutes!
Spirograph
I did this recently during a particularly crazy week. The fee was so worth every penny, and I’ll probably order groceries every time my husband is out of town from now on. I actually kind of like grocery shopping by myself or with just one kid, but if you don’t, your time is worth way more than the delivery fee. Don’t feel bad about this. Just because you *can* do something doesn’t mean it’s the best use of your time, or that outsourcing it isn’t a great use of your money.
Sydney Bristow
We get our groceries delivered and I think it is totally worth it. I can add stuff to the order as the week goes on and I realize I need something, impulse buys are almost entirely avoided because I can be strong in the moment of ordering, it saves the time of getting to and from the store and wandering the aisles, avoids the aggravation of the store being out of what I want and needing to make an immediate substitution, and takes one big chore off my list for the week.
Strangely I actually love grocery shopping when on vacation elsewhere in the US. I love gigantic grocery stores that have a million types of every item and plenty of space to maneuver. Most NYC grocery stores are a total pain.
Amy H.
+1. One of my favorite things to do in Las Vegas is to visit the gigantic Whole Foods at the southern end of the Strip. It is my happy foodie palace/place.
Senior Attorney
I’m taking it one step further and doing Blue Apron — I get the groceries and the recipes so I not only don’t have to shop, I don’t have to meal plan. It’s amazing and game-changing.
I say go for it!
KT
Alas, we do grocery delivery AND blue apron. Blue Apron covers our dinners and grocery delivery for breakfast/lunches/snacks.
Sign me up!
I recently (as in the last week) decided to get on a similar band-wagon.
We normally buy our groceries at a mid-sized store that is half a block from our house….so we normally end up going to the store hungry, in search of what we will cook for dinner tonight. Or we order in when going to the store seems too daunting (yes, lazy I know).
One of the larger/lower cost stores has recently been advertising for their new home delivery or pickup service based on online ordering/with an App. Home delivery service costs around $10, and you have to commit to being home within a 2hour window. Pickup is free (also within a 2 hour window). I have been doing the pickup on the way home from work. I push a button on the intercom. They bring the bagged up groceries to my car and away I go. My sister is at home with a newborn & has been doing the delivery service.
For me the benefit is being able to put my stuff in my cart through the week (no forgetting that 1 thing). Less chance to buy needless things by shopping when hungry. Easier to shop what is on sale. I also have made some lists for common recipes so it is easy to click click click into the cart. Added bonus is this store is actually quite a bit cheaper than where we normally shop.
It’s only been a week but I can’t imagine how something that is more convenient, saves time and money could possibly be a bad thing.
Parfait
I actually enjoy going to the grocery store, so I wouldn’t personally pay for that service. However, I do not enjoy cleaning, so I do pay someone for that service. It’s worth every penny in relationship harmony alone. I don’t have to clean, I don’t have to feel guilty for not cleaning, I don’t have to feel martyred for cleaning when he doesn’t, and I don’t have to nag anybody. If it makes your life easier and you can spare the cash, go for it.
KT
Thanks for your thoughts everyone.
Part of the problem is I am in Orlando, about 5 miles away from Disney World ( I knoooooooooowwwwwww, my choice to live there, but it is otherwise a gorgeous place and my husband is a pastry chef at Disney so his commute is zilch). Every Publix or Winn Dixie near me is packed to the gills with tourists, and it makes even a quick trip for milk into a 45 minute ordeal. Going grocery shopping means gearing up for battle in zombieland (seriously, it’s crazy. People sprint with their carts).
I hate, hate, hate grocery shopping with a fiery passion. I know it’s coming every weekend, and I dread it and put it off until I HAVE to go on Sunday nights, which makes the Sunday night blues all the worse. My husband will do the grocery shopping, but it takes him forever and he gets just as grumpy doing it.
I KNOW outsourcing grocery shopping is an indulgence, but with the amount of time I spend dreading going to the store, it’s a cost-savings and I was amazed at the load off my shoulders when I placed the order. I just have to find a way to kick the guilty omg-you-spent-money-you-should-save-all-the-pennies mentality I’m used to.
Also? Best life hack I ever did was marrying a chef. I HATE shopping and cooking, so thank god he likes it. Blue Apron meals are beyond me, but when he does it, it’s professional preparation.
cbackson
Just keep repeating this: my time is worth money. My time is worth money.
And also think of it this way: if you ever need to cut back for financial reasons, you know you can drop this. You’re not locked into doing it forever.
Meg Murry
+1 to your time is worth money, especially if you are a freelancer. Once you take the time to drive to the store, actually shop and drive home into account, if you do one hour of paying work instead in that time you are probably coming out ahead compared to the cost of grocery delivery.
Heck, you are certainly coming out ahead compared to ordering Chinese or pizza delivery, which is our go-to since we don’t have grocery delivery.
Lilly
I genuinely enjoy grocery shopping. However, if I were in your situation I would outsource it a heartbeat and never look back. Having done a grocery run or two while on vacation in Florida, I think I can picture perfectly what you are describing and it is awful, and it’s stressful, and it isn’t time effective. Don’t know if the Fresh Market is in your area, but if so, it might be an option for quickly picking up a few things from time to time in a fairly peaceful atmosphere. Complimentary coffee and classical music. I would do all my shopping there, except that I’d have to take up bank robbery to afford it. Still a great option for salad fixings and piece of fish though. They have beautiful produce. Here endeth my Ode to The Fresh Market!
Jitterbug
There have been times I’ve been so busy that I’ve actually considered having groceries delivered or sending my laundry out. I’ve never actually done it, because setting it all up seems like it would take almost as long as doing the thing myself, but I get the desire to at least occasionally have some else do it so I’m not scrambling to find the time. If you can afford it, and can’t think of something else you’d rather spend the money on, do it! Treat yo self!
Anonymous
I grew up poor. My family could never even imagine outsourcing any chores. Now that I make good money, I outsource a lot of these tasks. What else is the point of making money if not to make life easier?
Protein Powder?
Any recommendations from the Hive for a good protein powder to add to smoothies? I am working out more and lifting specifically for one of the first times ever (well, at least the first time that lifting is more than just curling 8 pounds weights). I keep hearing about the benefits of a protein powder, but when I do online research, everyone seems to have an agenda, or try and sell me isagenix or something. Can anyone recommend something I can try just to see if I like it (taste-wise)? Bonus points if you can get at Whole Foods or somewhere else easily accessible. Thanks!
Anonymous
You really don’t need a protein powder unless your diet is lacking. You need a lot less protein than you’d think to build muscle.
But, if you want one, I like Vega or Sun Warrior.
emeralds
Vega is my favorite. I don’t use it for lifting/muscle-building purposes, just to add some nutritional punch to smoothies, so can’t speak to it from that perspective.
Runner 5
+1. I just add a healthy dollop of Greek yoghurt to my smoothies to up the protein content (also using milk rather than fruit juice helps)
Amelia Earhart
I like Optimum Nutrition Casein protein. I blend them with smoothies but also just shake them with almond milk and that’s breakfast.
mascot
I like the EAS 100% Whey Vanilla. Pretty easy to find (my grocery store carries it) and doesn’t have a lot of extra vitamins/minerals added to it (read labels). Mostly I use it in smoothies. It also is palatable in a shaker cup with milk. Metabolic Drive Vanilla and Chocolate are both delicious as well, but much pricier.
I use my protein powder more as a meal, think breakfast smoothie, than a pure supplement.
JJ
I love Tera’s Whey protein. Tastes excellent (not like fake flavoring) and mixes really well into my smoothies. Vanilla and chocolate are my go-tos.
AnonInfinity
I use Optimum Nutrition and order it from Amazon Prime. I’ve tried the vanilla flavors and find that those go well in pretty much any smoothie. I also like the milk chocolate and rocky road flavors for drinking as a snack. There are approximately a million flavors from ON.
Aurora
So it’s not exactly a protein powder, but I add soylent powder to almost all my smoothies now. I’m not sure I buy the “this is so good for you, you’ll never need real food again!” schtick, but I like it, it’s filling, and I feel better when I have it so clearly it’s giving me some sort of nutrients I’m not getting otherwise.
Clementine
I can’t get over the name and never ever will.
Aurora
Hahah that’s part of the point, I think. They’re riffing off the movie and it appeals to nerds like me – every time I drink it I imagine I’m in the future. ^.^But you know, less dystopian and minus the people eating part.
2 Cents
I’ve been drinking Plant Protein smoothies (cookies & cream!). The powder is made by Plant Fusion. iHerb dot com has the best prices I’ve found. Never given me a stomach ache, and I don’t think it’s chalky. On Plant Fusion’s website, you can order a sampler for $10 to try out the powders first.
AnonPara
Whole Foods has sample packs in the protein/meal replacement section of the store. I tried half a dozen and do think Vega is the best tasting, but it is also one of the most expensive.
CTAtty
I like Sun Warrior. You can get it at Whole Foods and Amazon. It’s not chalky and I like the taste of both the chocolate and vanilla flavors.
Shopaholic
There are a lot of relationship threads on this post so I thought I would jump on. When do you know when a relationship is not going to work and when you just have problems that need to be worked through?
My boyfriend and I have been together for almost a year and a half. Things are generally pretty good although we have differing approaches to conflict which makes things difficult. He makes me happy and he’s the first person I’ve been able to fully be myself around.
I know no relationship is perfect but I guess I don’t know when things are going to create lifelong problems and when things just need to be worked through.
Anonymous
Assume every problem you have will be life long. Do you want that life?
What, specifically, can be worked through? People mostly don’t change and life just gets more complicated.
Senior Attorney
I agree with this. He is almost certainly not going to change, so you have to decide if you are willing to live with his approach to conflict. Is he mean? Does he shut down and refuse to talk? Either of those would be dealbreakers for me. But as CountC says, you have to decide for yourself.
Although honestly, I wouldn’t settle for “generally pretty good.” Life is too short.
CountC
You aren’t going to like my answer . . . this is something that you have to decide for yourself. Everyone’s deal breakers are different. I think we can pretty much all agree that ideally you should be respected, valued, and supported by your partner, that you feel safe and can be yourself around your partner, and that no abuse should be present. What your acceptable points are on things like religion, communication styles, whether you want to have children, how to raise children (if applicable), how much and what kind of $ex, money, etc., will be different for different people.
If you have the baseline, the rest is really up to you. I can tell you what I want and what I accept, but that may not work for you, you know?
Serafina
No advice, just commiseration – I’m in a similar situation (right down to the different approaches to conflict) with my boyfriend of 3 years.
No
Is Kat trolling us with this skirt because we complained too much about the lack of posts this “four day weekend”?
hey macaroni
Maybe if we wear 3-d glasses it’ll come into focus?
NPs/PAs?
I’ve been a lawyer for 3 years, and I hate it. Can someone talk to me about becoming an NP? Do we have any NPs or PAs herewho’d like to offer opinions on their jobs? I’d have to start over completely (no RN–English BA). I have no debt and 100K invested and 100K in emergency fund. I live in a HCOL area and can’t move but google tells me there are some local RN options as well as remote RN options. How much does it matter where you get your BSN?
Anonymous
by “remote” do you mean online? No legit RN degree can be obtained online only as there are many practical requirements which must be completed in hospital.
OP
Remote meaning you can complete the training online and then do practicals at your own geographic location.
Coach Laura
Please don’t say that there are no remote legit online programs unless you’re sure. There is, in fact, one completely legit online program for RN/BSN. University of Wisconsin Oshkosh. Clinicals/practicums are arranged in the student’s home location. It’s a pretty intense program with some intense pre-reqs.
To the original OP, I’ve researched this extensively. Nurse Wife and Nursing? below both have good ideas. Doing the CNA>LP>RN>BSN>MSN route is hard and long and unless you want to work your way through school at those lower levels, I don’t advise that route. (That is – It’s good for 20 year olds who have to work their way through school, not for someone who has ability to earn good money due to prior training.)
If you want to be an NP, there are combined RN/BSN/MSN programs that lead to NP that are done in 2 or 2.5 years that are available to students who have done the pre-req classes (bio, anatomy) and also have a prior Bachelor’s degree in anything else, like English. I have a spreadsheet with these if you’re interested, post your email.
Just doing the pre-req bio, anatomy, chem classes might take a year or two and those can be done at night and possibly sometimes online first before you quit your job.
OP
Yes! Thanks! Please send. Can you take the pre-req classes at a local community college, or does it matter where?
Thank you!! anonforthis421 [at] gmail.com
(My regular email has my full name in it.)
Coach Laura
I’ll send the email tonight.
Most programs will take community college credits – I’ve never heard of a university not taking in-person CC credits. Some universities (Baylor? but there are others) won’t take online classes for credit so you might want to determine what school(s) you are targeting before you take an online class and check first. Though most pre-reqs have lab components that are hard to take online, some programs have psych, soc, nutrition required classes that you might be able to take online.
Anon 11:23
If you read again you’ll note that I said no “online only” program – the University of Wisconsion program you referenced is mostly online but there is an almost one month residency component.
The University of Wisconsin program you reference requires almost a month of residence (initial weekend, then two week ‘bootcamp’ then final week) plus is recognized in less than 20 states.
Nursing?
Yes, the schools I looks into will take pre-reqs from *just about* anywhere and they encourage you to contact them if you have any question as to whether a class will satisfy a pre-req before you take it. For the lab classes, there is a requirement that it not be a virtual class–it must be a IRL class and lab. The program I’m targeting actually has a chart of the classes at area community colleges that satisfy the pre-reqs. There are two pre-reqs that are not offered locally and have to be taken virtually; they have a list of which exact (virtual and IRL) courses at various schools satisfy the requirement.
My advice is that once you have a program or two picked out, see if they have similar materials for your local community colleges.
Also, at my local community college, due to state budgets, it can be hard to get into classes as a brand new student. But, if you have at least 1 class done, you get higher registration priority for the next semester. So I’m taking a summer class because they don’t seem to fill up as quickly as fall/spring classes.
Nurse Wife
My husband teaches nursing. There’s definitely a hierarchy of programs in our city, though the people who go to all the programs do generally end up finding jobs. I would guess it’s the same anywhere, but the people who go to the most prestigious BSN program here are much more likely to get the in-demand jobs, like NICU or ICU. At least here, that’s only true within the city. No one cares if a person got a BSN at Harvard vs. Good Local University, but they will pay attention to Good Local University vs. Hospital Diploma Program.
Because there are so many practical skills involved, I can’t imagine you’d be able to get your BSN remotely without getting some other certification first. For example, if you got an RN at an associates or diploma program and then got the BSN online. That’s the long way around for someone who doesn’t have any of prerequisites. It’;; probably take just as long to do that as it would to get your BSN in the first place.
I can’t offer opinions otherwise because I’ve never been a nurse. There are some great aspects of it (as an RN, you get to leave your work behind every day, can have a fantastic schedule, rewarding work), but there’s also a lot of burnout, especially among nurses on the hospital floor. I’m not sure about NPs, but my husband has told me the job market for NPs is a lot more competitive than he would have thought before getting into it, and you end up working a ton and not getting paid as much as you should.
Nursing?
I have been a lawyer for a bit longer than three years but recently decided to spend an inheritance and get an accelerated BSN (1 year).
I just signed up to volunteer at a local hospital while working full time as a lawyer. I have a counseling appointment at the community college for planning out my pre-reqs this Friday. I have 8 courses to take: 3 with labs, 3 classroom, 2 virtual.
In my area, only one “respected” school offers an ABSN. It’s a 100 year old private nursing school. About half of the program is clinicals/in-hospital residencies. The public schools only offer BSNs (4 years) and direct entry MSN (2 years) that are very competitive to get into–so not really an attractive option for me. I spoke to the few nurses that I know and this ABSN degree is very well received by employers and graduates are very marketable.
I looked into the CNA–>LVN–>RN–>BSN route and it just looks difficult.
In a HCOL, I had to consider the cost of reduced earnings over the years while I will be in school. It just makes more sense to pay extra tuition for a year and come out with a degree with more earning power than to try to save money on tuition but pay for it in trying to cover the rent while working part time.
Suburban
No advice but I just want to say that’s awesome. I’m a lawyer but I grew up in a family of nurses. I firmly believe that nurses are heroes and I’m always in awe of them. All the best to you.
OP
WOW. Thank you so much for your post–I am so impressed by your hard work. And taking the plunge!! Awesome.
BigLawAtty
If you are interested in nursing, I’d suggest reading The Shift. It’s an amazing look at one day in the life of being a nurse.
I would also spend some time shadowing advanced practice nurses/PAs to see if this is really the career for you. My husband is a nurse and I really think he has the harder job most days.
Also, I find the rigid hierarchy and the blatant sexism of the medical community really hard to deal with. His hospital makes my law firm look like a super woman friendly employer.
Anonymous
Hi guys! looking for a romantic vacation for two people this fall. To give you an idea we have done private safari, mountain climbs, treks and that kind of stuff before as well as some longer stays in cities like Paris, Vienna and Prague.
Essentially looking for an idea like hiking Machu Picchu (done that one before) that we could do in two weeks. Looking for something two people in reasonable shape could do. Not really concerned about budget. We try not to over extend ourselves over the two weeks. Would like it to be somewhere with a major airport if possible so we don’t lose too much time travelling. Thanks!
Anonymous
Hiking in Northern Italy/Western Austria/Eastern Switzerland area. Lots of great hiking routes and very well developed tourism infrastructure.
CHJ
One hike that’s on my list is the Tour du Mont Blanc in the Alps. It’s about 100 miles and you cross through France, Switzerland, and Italy. And you can stay in small inns along the way and eat fantastic dinners every night. Looks amazing.
Anon
+1,000 And lots if different variants to choose from. Nearest airport to a good starting point, Chamonix, is Geneva.
Anon
of
Anonymous
Does it have to be hiking? Bora Bora is the most romantic place I’ve ever been but no mountain climbs there. I have a friend who did the Tour de Mont Blanc. She raved it about it and the pictures looked awesome but they stayed in hostel-type places, so not sure that fits your definition of romantic.
Anon
In addition to the refuges, depending on the variant there are small inns that can be romantic.
Anon
Kauai is beautiful esp the north shore. There’s a good hike on the north shore but not a multi week thing. Maybe island hopping and hiking Hawaii?
Never done this but what about Patagonia?
Bonnie
Biking tour through French wine country.
Senior Attorney
Gentleman Friend and I are doing this one in September. Come join us! http://www.customwalks.com/tours/view/sicily-bike
Anon
I took a “work life balance” job — i.e. very very regular 9-5 hrs, boring work, no “real” deadlines — and I am not a parent and don’t need or want that kind of balance. I was happier (though exhausted) working 60+ hrs a week in biglaw and life was happier bc I LOVED my work and I didn’t have time to dwell on how my life is — mid 30s, alone etc. Is there any way to adjust to this or should I just bide my time and try to get back to fast paced (and more money)? I didn’t take the job by choice — I was about to get laid off in biglaw bc I was an 8th yr who wasn’t going to make partner as my department suddenly slowed down and this govt job is all I could find. I know people say — find yourself a spouse/family life you want and then work will just be one thing in your life and not your whole life. Reality is I used to like my work and I likely won’t find a spouse anyway, so why not just find somewhere to toil away and make money? WWYD?
Anonymous
Haven’t you posted here several times before? People have given you really good advice – get therapy to move past not making partner, try again at a different firm if it’s still something you want, etc. There’s nothing wrong with enjoying working long, hard hours at an interesting job, and if that’s what makes you happy you should look for that kind of job.
Anon
Haven’t posted before — not on any work issue. Though now I’m going to see if there’s other advice out there to someone in a similar predicament.
Anonitynon
I can’t advise about getting another, more fast-paced law job, but this is the perfect time to figure out what really makes you happy. Maybe it will turn out that you want a more exciting job, but I’d spend some time to take a class you’ve always wanted to take (could be anything: cooking, a language…), take up a new sport, read more, volunteer, do a lot of online dating if the finding a spouse thing is a goal, etc. Maybe some of those things will give you the sense of meaning you’ve been missing. And if not, you can always try to find a new job.
Anonymous
Honestly, I have a DH and three kids and when I read your post my first thought was about how I was so jealous. The grass is always greener I guess.
In your shoes with a sensible hours job I would be all about the hobbies – extra yoga classes, learn to knit class, painting course, indoor rock climbing, learn to speak Italian conversation group, volunteer work at the animal shelter (love dogs so much). Fill up your free time because when you do have a DH + kids – there is so much less time to do all those things and just try on new hobbies after work on a random tuesday night
Anonymous
Omg, you’re me! There’s another one of me!
I’m also in a very dull, 9-5 job that I had to take and I desperately miss my fast-paced, fulfilling prior job. People think I’m crazy. Because my mind’s not occupied in any way, I spend all day analyzing my life. Ugh.
I’m also single and I’ve posted on this board before. Posters have recommended developing hobbies, going out with friends. I’ve started doing more classes at the gym, reaching out to friends more often, exploring my interests, but I just can’t seem to find my groove in life without meaningful work. I think my only choice is to bide my time until I find something else.
PS – We could chat offline if you’d like someone to commiserate with!
Suburban
Forgive me if this is inappropriate, I’m only brainstorming. Can you pour the extra time back into what it was that you were passionate about? Start a blog, teach a class, help a non-profit with briefs, a profitable side gig? Id love to see you start something that generates income and sets you up to work for yourself or at least boosts your credentials. Personally, I’m the queen of leisure time but I appreciate that it doesn’t recharge everyone’s batteries. You don’t have to boar yourself with into to tai chi if you’d rather be hustling. Good luck!
Anon
If you’re not happy with being mid-30’s and alone, use your extra time to change that! Going back to a busy job looks to me like you want an excuse why you can’t “find a spouse,” as you put it. The busy job is part of the problem, not part of the solution here.
Anonitynon
I don’t think this brand of clothing is necessarily aimed at anyone on here, but I’m curious: do any of you have experience with LuLaRoe? Specifically, the fit of the dresses? It’s one of those companies where individual women become consultants and sell from their home (similar to MLM companies like Stella and Dot, etc.). All of the selling happens in Facebook groups. Seems to be done by a lot of SAHMs. The company only manufactures 2500 or something of each print and then it goes out of circulation, so they have a lot of different, constantly updating styles.
Anyway, I like the look of the Amelia dress (check it out on LuLaRoe’s main website; basically it has sleeves, a defined waist, and a full skirt with box pleats and pockets, all of my favourite items in a dress). Some of the prints that pop up on Facebook are hideous, but some are pretty cute. Does anyone have any experience with the type of fabric used in these dresses, or how they fit?
Peach Pye
Do you have any hobbies or interests you’ve always wanted to explore?
Volunteer for a cause you are passionate about?
Try pro bono work?
Take a class?
Find an activity that keeps your mind engaged so you are not dwelling. Perhaps it will blossom into something that you really enjoy doing and you will be grateful for the extra time you have to do it.