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I was raving to Kat recently about my new favorite eyebrow product, so I suggested I do a mini Browvo review for the readers!
{related: here's Kat's review of eyebrow stencils}
The brow product I've been using for a while didn't always do a great job of covering a particularly sparse area of one of my brows until I bought Benefit's brow conditioning primer, Browvo. It smooths your brows and really helps your main brow product adhere to your skin — and stay on for longer.
{related: is microblading worth it? (from guest poster, Adina J. of Blue Collar Red Lipstick)}
It only takes a short time to dry, and it's invisible after that. (I feel like I've written “brow” about 50 times already.) Some reviewers at Sephora say that it made their brows fuller, but I've only seen a little evidence of that after using it for a few weeks. But I'll take anything, I guess!
{related: why Kat loves threading for eyebrow maintenance}
Note that when you first use the product, you have to turn the bottom part of the tube for a long time to get anything to come out, but it's fine from then on. (I actually thought mine was defective at first.)
The 0.1 oz. full-size version is $28 at Sephora, and the o.o4 oz. mini version is $12.
{related: how to dye your eyebrows with Just for Men}
I bought the mini because I wanted to try it out before committing. (I can't say how long that size lasts, unfortunately, because I've only had it a short time.) By the way, 0.04 oz. is not as small as it sounds! Browvo! Conditioning Primer
Psst: Kat's still raving about this eyebrow product for her own sparse eyebrows. You may also want to check out April's RapidBrow review!
This post contains affiliate links and Corporette® may earn commissions for purchases made through links in this post. For more details see here. Thank you so much for your support!
Sales of note for 10.10.24
- Nordstrom – Extra 25% off clearance (through 10/14); there's a lot from reader favorites like Boss, FARM Rio, Marc Fisher LTD, AGL, and more. Plus: free 2-day shipping, and cardmembers earn 6x points per dollar (3X the points on beauty).
- Ann Taylor – Extra 50% off sale (ends 10/12)
- Banana Republic Factory – Up to 50% off everything plus extra 25% off your $125+ purchase
- Boden – 10% off new styles with code; free shipping over $75
- Eloquii – Extra 50% off a lot of sale items, with code
- J.Crew – 40% off sitewide
- J.Crew Factory – 50% off entire site, plus extra 25% off orders $150+
- Lo & Sons – Fall Sale, up to 35% off
- M.M.LaFleur – Save 25% sitewide
- Neiman Marcus – Sale on sale, up to 85% off
- Spanx – Lots of workwear on sale, some up to 70% off
- Talbots – 50% off 2+ markdowns
- Target – Circle week, deals on 1000s of items
- White House Black Market – Buy one, get one – 50% off full price styles
And some of our latest threadjacks here at Corporette (reader questions and commentary) — see more here!
Some of our latest threadjacks include:
- What to say to friends and family who threaten to not vote?
- What boots do you expect to wear this fall and winter?
- What beauty treatments do you do on a regular basis to look polished?
- Can I skip the annual family event my workplace holds, even if I'm a manager?
- What small steps can I take today to get myself a little more “together” and not feel so frazzled all of the time?
- The oldest daughter is America's social safety net — change my mind…
- What have you lost your taste for as you've aged?
- Tell me about your favorite adventure travels…
Aurora
Tell me something crazy or indulgent you’ve done just for yourself!
At 35, I finally decided I’ve played it safe for long enough and just got triple earlobe piercings. It’s something I’ve been wanting since I was a teenager and I LOVE it. I work in law, so will probably keep my second and third holes pretty minimalist at work, but love having options to play around on the weekend and more casual days.
This is not a midlife crisis, I promise. Can any of you relate?
Ellen
To A point, perhaps; I am a couple of years older then you and I am an attorney also, and at our age we need to do something to make a difference. I would not have taken your route, as some of our more important cleints want me to look “professionally conservative”, and the manageing partner already told me he does NOT want me looking like a hippie or anyting that would upset that. As a result, no tattoos, no multiple ear piercing, and NO nose rings, he said. Dad already warned me abou the same, not that I had any interest in any of that. I am of the personal belief that men will not find a woman as attractive (even if she gives him $ex) if she has any of the foregoing, as that is all they would want ($ex), and NOT the lasting relationship that we women need. So OP, it is up to you. Go for it if that is what you want, but at least you will be aware of the consequences. YAY!
Housecounsel
Lip injections? It’s pretty self-indulgent, but I really love lipstick and like having something to put lipstick on!
Anonymous
I take myself on a solo mini-vacation around my birthday. The day is at a time people generally don’t want to celebrate with me, so it generally goes unacknowledged for the most part (and I’m not big on “celebrating” it with people, anyway). I decided instead to make it a time I can consistently remind myself that I am worthy of self-indulgence, so I take myself someplace I want to go and do exactly what I want to do (or do nothing) the whole short trip. The trip varies based on desire, budget, and schedule. I’ve been to NYC, Vancouver, Valencia, St. Augustine, etc.
Anon
This is awesome. I’m in the process of weaning my last child and want to do a solo vacation somewhere (maybe wine country?) to celebrate the fact that nobody is depending on my body for food.
Aurora
These are both amazing and I am definitely adding to my life goals list.
TX-IHC
Love this idea!
Anonymous
Bayalage hair dye from an upscale salon. I have long hair and only go every 6-8 months but it is still $$$. It is not at all necessary and barely noticeable since I do no bleach on my dark brown hair, but I like how it shimmers in the light and can’t go back to just my regular hair unless I need to make serious budget cuts.
Also, all the workout classes and personal training. I /could/ workout alone, but since I enjoy working out so much I treat myself to classes I enjoy.
anon
What color do they do if you don’t use bleach?
Anonymous
It works out to be something of a permanent reddish/brown henna like shade. I am East Asian with brown/black hair, and pretty pale skin. It is basically close to warm copper at the roots and maybe dark chocolate brown up top, more copper in direct light and more chocolate in indirect light. I go back for a touch up when its basically all copper borderline brassy. In between I wash with sulfate free shampoo, don’t heat style often, and use a shower filter. I also go to Aveda salons only, on the offhand chance it’s slightly better for me than conventional hair dye. That’s probably what accounts for the $$$, as Asian run hair salons often charge at least $100 less.
So far so good – I’ve literally never had to get toner or go to any special lengths to keep it looking natural. My “style” is usually just upkeeping my dye and wearing makeup daily to work- I don’t really do nails and can’t remember to put on jewelry other than for special occasions.
S in Chicago
I am dog crazy and belong to a Facebook group for my dog’s breed. I took a trip from Chicago to the middle of nowhere Tennessee for their annual “Jamboree” without my husband. Just me and the dog.
I’m a city girl. And I don’t normally stay at anything but hi-end hotels. And I didn’t know a soul there….
And I had an absolute blast. Everybody was so wonderfully warm and welcoming. And so many different people from all ages. One lady was Mennonite. Just all steps of life. And it was so great to step out of my comfort zone.
One of the best things I’ve done in a really long time.
Panda Bear
That sounds amazing! I have to see if there is something like that for my dog breed – I’m picturing a whole convention of her lookalikes.
Anon
That does sound amazing! Mind me asking what breed? I want to picture this fun event!
S in Chicago
Rat terriers! Picture little black and white spotted dogs all over the place. About 80 or so people. I’d say about 120 dogs or so. They did a costume contest at the opening night BBQ. Next day, they held an agility contest, races, singing with your pet and just a whole lot of hanging out and talking all things dog. At one point, the rescue group affiliated did a “parade of recuses” with a handful of dogs currently up for adoption as well as all the “alumna” present–those that had been adopted from the group at some point. I’m not gonna lie, I got kind of teary seeing all those happy dogs with families now . There is even a kind and queen of the jamboree crowned if you can believe it. And yes, of course I was thrilled that they have them wear little dog crowns and robes. ;)
anon
I love this. I was picturing a corgi convention but a gathering of rat terriers sounds awesome too. I would whole-heartedly like to attend something like this with my dog.
Pep
They do a gigantic corgi meet-up in DC every October – my girl and I have gone twice. It’s outside my comfort zone (strangers! driving into DC!) but it’s a blast.
Avis
This is such a lovely story.
anon
This is probably not that indulgent, given the fact that I’m in a lot of pain if I don’t do it, but I get a massage every other week to help with migraines/TMJ pain. It feels indulgent even though its for my health.
I also am religious about haircuts and waxing, like have multiple appointments scheduled in advance. And I bought a giant order of Lush bath b0mbs and take baths with them weekly.
Panda Bear
In keeping with the brow theme, I finally pulled the trigger and scheduled a microblading appointment. Indulgent at $700 and possibly crazy, but I hope it will make my life a little easier in the morning by allowing me to skip the brow pencil routine.
Anon
Oh it does. I also felt silly for doing it, but it really does change your whole face to have properly shaped and full brows all the time. I even wear a lot less makeup now as I feel “done” with just the eyebrows and mascara.
Panda Bear
Awesome – thanks for the positive review!
Aurora
I did microblading a few years ago, and it’s still going strong and I can’t ever imagine not having it. I also get regular eyelash extension so my daily makeup routine is zero. Definitely recommend.
Inspired By Hermione
I’m on a two week mostly-solo trip to Europe right now!
Diana Barry
Hi all, I have a few Boden dresses, an LL Bean trench, and a J Crew Lady Day coat that I’d like to send to a good home for cost of shipping – please LMK if you are interested! Email is diana barry r e t t e at g m a i l (no spaces)
– Boden navy ottoman sheath dress, size 6L, with short sleeves and turned-over collar (similar to Betty style)
– Boden black ponte sheath dress, size 6L, with short sleeves and turned-over collar (similar to Audrey style)
– Boden black with white piping ponte sheath dress, size 8, with short sleeves and small scoop neck (Marianna style)
– LL Bean trench coat size S, classic style in light khaki, double b r e a s t e d
– J Crew Lady Day coat in ivory with thinsulate, size 12T (runs small – I bought big enough to put blazers under)
Emily
Hi! Just sent you an email!
Anon
Am I the only one who thinks that if I have to get another beauty product in order for the first one to work right, I just need to switch the first product for a better one? Maybe it’s just because I’ve been trying to cut down on my buying lately, largely for environmental reasons, and have just noticed how many things are sold to make another product “work better.”
Anon
Totally agree. Also I think sometimes it’s perfectly fine for a product to work just okay, as not everyone wants to or needs to be “full fancy makeup” level everyday. In general, if the cheapie products aren’t working, get a nicer product that unfortunately is usually more expensive, that works better. I think this is definitely the case for certain products like foundation, eyeshadow, and face serums and moisturizers.
Cat
Thank you for articulating this because I agree — maybe it was from an overdose on the Nordstrom beauty sale, but it felt like there’s a primer for EVERYTHING now (foundation! eyeshadow! lips! brows!), and if the home improvement industry can figure out how to do paint + primer in one for porous walls, surely makeup can behave accordingly.
Monday
Yes. Also, I have tried both mascara primer and eyeshadow primer, expensive brands, and neither helped much anyway. At worst, the primer just becomes something else to crease or cake, as happened when I tried eyeshadow primer to deal with my oily lids.
I’m interested in what allows me to buy or use fewer makeup items, not more.
Anon
Yes.
Maybe for very special events, I can see how expensive double products would be an improvement, but my daily life will not involve a costly item to make another costly item work better.
Celia
I think a lot of this proliferation of products stems from decreasing profits/sales. Make-up companies needed to come up with new ways to get us to spend our money. I find “eye make-up remover” particularly odd, because why would I want to use a product (say, mascara) that’s so cemented on that ordinary cleanser/water & soap won’t get it off???
Anonymous
In general… but slightly disagree around things that are a specific color or consistency, like eyeshadow. Sometimes the formula is not great but the color is so gorgeous that I’m willing to change my routine or other products to deal with it. Definitely NOT for run of the mill stuff like foundation, blush, concealer etc.
anonymous
I feel this way about clothes as well. If I get a sleeveless top I need a cardigan. If I get this dress it needs a belt. If I get this shoe it needs this tiny sock. All of my shoes look stupid with these new pants. If I get this top I need a backless bra or just magically not to have n*pples for the day. This dress has an unusual fabric so it needs its own wrap/jacket. These sandals are perfect for night but just a little too fancy for the office. Bags of every size for every level of fancy. Make it stop. *cowers*
Reality Partnership
What person from a reality show would you love to date or marry and why?
Feel free to also share reverse; who would be your nightmare partner and why?
anon
I would like to date both of the Property Brothers at the same time, please and thank you.
Anonymous
Tyler C. Honestly just one night of touching his abs
anon
The only reality show I watch is the Bachelor franchise. I think the two people I would have gotten on with are Wells and Sean Lowe. They each have a great sense of humor and seem like pretty great guys. Conversely, nightmare partner would be Luke P from the most recent season.
Anon
Sean seems super gross to me. He seems like a stereotypical Evangelical Christian white male with all the sexist and conservative BS that implies. He said he’d be ok with his son going on the show but not his daughter. I’m sure there are people out there who find that kind of thing sweet but I am not one of them.
anon
Yikes, I think I’m taking him off my list then. And clearly we would be a terrible match. He just came across as sweet and funny on the show (and I remember Emily Maynard really didn’t get his humor), but I haven’t followed him since.
That leaves me with just Wells but he’s probably my all time favorite anyway. I love that he seems really happy with his celebrity gf.
Ellen
Actually, after giving this due dilberation, I would not go for any of the guys on those shows, b/c they are so phony– all they want to do (even tho they profess otherwise) is to have the women pull their panties off and have $ex with them. They would NOT even sleep with them after $ex, which is the romantic thing to do, but these guys will march back to their cabin and tell the other guys what she did, where she did it, and what she said he couldn’t do etc. FOOEY on that! If I have $ex with a guy, I do NOT want him broadcasting what I did and did NOT do to the other guys. Then they would also expect the same from me, which is NOT where I would want to be.
By the same token, I would not want any of those schmoes pursuing me, as who knows where they have been before and what they might have picked up in the way of STDs. After all, the women they do F***k are not exactly puritanical, and they to have had $ex with multiple men, some even from overseas where they do NOT circumscrize themselves. That is how STDs are most easily transmittable, and that includes EVERY kind of $ex. So those that will not a strange man inside them can still get so many kinds of STDs unless they INSIST on a condom for every minute the guy is near her. DOUBEL FOOEY!
Anon
Nightmare partner: any of the men on Southern Charm.
Anonymous
+1
I feel like I had more quality options in eighth grade than any of these guys who do amazingly fail at basic adulting.
Embarrassed for South Carolina. It is their Jersey Shore.
Anon
There have been a few cute guys on the Bachelor for sure but I can’t see myself seriously dating anyone who would do reality TV. It’s just so incompatible with my personality that I think it would make a long term relationship hard, because we’d be such totally different people. If I’m forced to pick, maybe JP from Ashley Hebert’s season? They both seem like relatively normal people who mostly want to live life out of the spotlight.
Anon
Yes please: Peter from Rachel’s Bachelorette season.
God no: Mark from 90 Day Fiance. Actually, pretty much any dude associated with that show …
Ms B
Dream dates: As The Hubs knows, I have longstanding crushes on both of the Voltaggio brothers from Top Chef.
Nightmares: Simon Cowell, the entire Jersey Shore cast, Marcel from Top Chef, and, of course, Puck from The Real World (shows you how old I am!!).
AZCPA
I would happily try dating any judge of either gender on Chopped. they are all super smart, put together, successful, and LOVE to cook.
Anon
What’s a good gift for DH, turning 38 soon, a bit down about getting older, and doesn’t have too many discernible hobbies (likes cars, funky socks and shirts, doesn’t read). I’m blanking.
Aurora
Sock of the month club? There are a ton out there, and it’s gift that keeps on giving!
https://urbantastebud.com/best-sock-subscription-boxes/
Anon
I’m a fan of experience gifts – weekend away, tickets to a sports team or concert, etc. Something that you wouldn’t otherwise be that interested in is especially good. Maybe a car show?
Housecounsel
Concert tickets to a band that is young and hip?
Ellen
My ex always appreciated a good bottle of Johnny Walker, so if he can handle this, go for it. Personally, it tastes like Listerine, so if he does not like it, you will have to give it away. Alternatively, a romantic interlude where you dress the role of Cleopatra, and then give him the evening of his life in the bedroom, if he is up for it! YAY!
OP
OP here. He is very picky about his clothes so I don’t even touch that category and we can’t go away due to restrictions on PTO. I like the idea of a car show. I believe my city has one or two a year so I’ll see what is out there.
GCG
A couple other experience ideas related to cars: Is there a luxury car/ exotic car driving tour company near you? Or a “drive a race car around a race track for x amount of time”? My husband and I did the Gotham Dream Car experience outside of NYC one time and it was a lot of fun. Probably one of his favorite experiences. It can be spendy (we bought our experience through a charity auction) but I’ve seen similar things on Groupon before.
Anon
+1 my friend did this for her then-BF and he LOVED IT.
KS IT Chick
My dad & brother are both car guys. My mom got them ride-alongs at a race track in a race-style car (2-seater based upon what is used in the NASCAR Cup Series). There was also the option of race school with a 3-lap run around the track at the wheel.
NOLA
BlueQ socks are my favorite. I gave one of my partners in crime the ones that say “This meeting is bullsh*t” because he was leaving and wouldn’t have me sitting next to him saying it anymore.
Anonymous
Thanks for the recommendation. I want one of their tote bags for myself!
Anonymous
Along these same lines, my 38th birthday is this weekend and my H just asked me what I wanted. I am out of ideas that aren’t over $1000, which isn’t exactly reasonable here. Any suggestions? What would y’all want if you were me?
Happy vs. Money
I’m realizing that I feel pretty good about the work I do, the volunteering I do, the friends I have, my rental apartment, etc. The only problem is that my income doesn’t sustain my life. (I’m super barebones, nothing to cut back, I just need more income.)
I hate and feel a bit resentful that I am likely going to have to give up some or much of the parts of my life that make me happy as a trade to earn the money necessary to exist. While I understand “that’s how life works,” it just feels wrong to me that we work to create a happy life but work can prevent or diminish the happy life once we have it. Sigh.
busybee
Why do you have to give up your volunteering, friends, or apartment to earn more money? There are plenty of decent-paying jobs out there that are M-F 9-5 and allow for significant life enjoyment outside of work.
Anonymous
Well if you want to be this negative go for it.
anon
Thankfully we all have you to help us be more negative!
Anon
That’s not exactly positive.
To the OP: it’s hard to trade off between doing meaningful work and being able to live comfortably. My usual advice is to find a low-stress 9-5 job that enables you to do everything you want outside of work, or relatively well-paid temporary roles that enable you to volunteer, write, etc., in between gigs.
Anon
Sugar Daddy? But in all seriousness, how old are you? That job that you feel pretty good about is going to seem a whole lot less great when you get enough experience that you don’t feel respected or paid your worth. Moving up in your career and making more money is also a good and natural part of life if you want it. But completely understand where you’re coming from – everyone should be able to live a comfortable, even if fairly bare bones, life working full time. In the longer term – find a job similar to what you do now but where you make money. In the slightly shorter term, I’m sure your apartment is great but it’s four walls – get a roommate so your money will stretch further. If you live alone (you didn’t make that clear) and can’t make ends meet, then it’s a luxury.
Ellen
She doesn’t need a sugar daddy. She needs a REAL man to be there for her and provide income in exchange for love and children. That is what I want. If she is young enough and pretty enough, she can find a decent guy, but she can’t wait around like I did b/c good men just don’t show up on the fly and appear waiting for us. We must pursue them, track them down and pin them down to MARRAGE, so that we can finaly hang up our running shoes and replace them with a nice comfortable house coat. YAY!!!
Anon
Life is a series of trade offs. Some of those trade offs are easier to make, but it is a situation you will face often. Without knowing more about your financial situation, we can’t provide any actual advice.
Anon
My SO has only worked 3 days out of the last 2.5 weeks – he’s supposed to work Mon-Fri. He keeps not going to work because he says he hasn’t slept well – luckily, he has a very relaxed job and they don’t seem to care. But I care! We don’t share finances, so it’s not impacting me in a huge way yet, but it’s still very concerning. I’ve bought him melatonin (I asked about melatonin last week) , which he took once and slept well, and then took again and was very drowsy the next day, so he doesn’t want to take it anymore. He doesn’t have health insurance, so going to a doctor is not an option. He uses marijuana already, and it doesn’t seem to help. Any advice?
Z
He just doesn’t go to work? Like does he use vacation/sick days? Is he depressed?
Anonymous
Yeah break up with him before you wind up married to this loser. He’s an irresponsible lazy drug user. This isn’t a hard problem to solve.
Ellen
This sounds right, but don’t DTMFA w/o examing alternatives. There’s always the possibility, however small, that he provides $exueal realease to the OP which will help her to sleep! If so, keep him, if not DTMFA! YAY!
anon
Well, he needs to address the underlying cause of his sleeplessness. Depression? Anxiety? Something else? The fact that he’s resorting to MJ without exploring other options is … concerning. What does he think about this? You can’t fix this for him.
AK
WHAT?! Is he not concerned for himself?? Is he depressed? This is absolutely the time to see a doctor, if he’s truly unable to work due to lack of sleep. It has — so far — cost him 12 days of work (that’s >$1k at $12/hr).
Have him call around and ask which doctors give a discount for cash-up-front payments. Previous docs I had offered a 40% discount for not billing insurance.
Anon
I think you may be trying to cure the symptom rather than the cause with melatonin, etc. This doesn’t sound like a sleep issue to me; honestly, it sounds like depression or some other issue that goes much deeper than whether he is sleeping at night.
Anon
Is he doing anything to address the problem? Is he really depressed?
This would be a huge red flag in my relationship with someone. I’m of the view that there are certain things in like you just do because you have to, regardless of whether you feel like doing them or not. Going to work is one of them. Just like going to school and doing homework is for students. I would be worried that he would just choose not to participate in our shared life. Is he going to not do chores around the house cause he doesn’t feel like it? Not prepare meals for our children cause he didn’t sleep well? I’m just so over guys who can’t take care of themselves.
Anon
“I’m just so over guys who can’t take care of themselves.”
This. My SO worked at a small business that went under. It took him a lot longer than anticipated to find a new job but I wasn’t worried about financially supporting him because he was constantly looking and trying to find ways to make my life easier in the meantime (doing 90% of the chores during the day when he wasn’t job searching or interviewing, for example). “Not working” is a huge red flag unless it’s accompanied by a serious reason or significant, measurable steps to find work combined with an understanding of how it’s affecting others.
Anon
Ummm what’s concerning is that he doesn’t seem to be doing anything to fix the problem. Not having health insurance sucks and I can empathize, but there’s clearly something going on here, either physical, mental, or both, that is definitely impacting his day-to-day life. I would be less concerned about the potential financial impact (at least in the short run) and more concerned about the fact that he doesn’t seem to care?
Anon
+1
I have several family members without health insurance, but that doesn’t mean they never treat their health problems. Unless you’re in the middle of nowhere, there are doctors that take cash patients. My sister pays something like $40, uninsured, for an office visit, and another family member uses some kind of $80 online doctor’s consultation (also uninsured). That’s a lot cheaper than 8-10 days of lost wages.
Anonymous
DTMFA. He’s not going to work because he’s sleepy? He can afford weed but he can’t afford health insurance? If his finances are so dire then he shouldn’t be buying recreational substances and he should be showing up to work. Just no. This is the guy you date as a rebellious 16 year old not as an adult. You deserve better.
Anonymous
Can he find a free clinic in your city?
Ellen
I think he is angling for you to support him b/c he is lazy and not a go-getter. I had this issue with my SO, and he would wind up watching TV in my apartment all day, eating, and stinking up the toilet. When I came home tired, he didn’t care; he was waiting to pounce on me and have $ex with me when I was in the LEAST romantic of moods. He was lounging all day when I was working so of course he was more spunky, but I just saw him as some sort of a useless leech, just draining my food supply, and pocketbook having fun while I worked. FOOEY I said and my Dad was livid when he found out! He directed me to DTMFA and I did! You should considering doing same! YAY!!!
Annie
I have two kids under three and haven’t slept well in years, but I still go to work every day. I think it’s probable that he’s not telling you the whole story and I think you need to seriously think about whether you can trust him.
Anon
Sorry, I’m blunt: is the gardening really *that* good that you’re with a weed-smoking, uninsured, lazy dude?
I mean, if the guy were applying to two dozen jobs a week, grabbing temp work, and taking care of his health, you could believe that his situation is temporary and like a lot of people, he would be a successful, home-owning 50 year old with a story about the lean years. But you aren’t describing an adult relationship.
Anonymous
For what it’s worth, MJ was actually the cause of my sister’s insomnia, not a solution. But I’m actually on the DTMFA train here.
No-stove cooking
I am down a stove at the moment.
I’m looking at toaster ovens and it looks like a lot of them are billed as letting you do actual baking on them. Is this a thing now? I used one as a kid just to make Elio’s frozen pizzas in. And if it is a thing, do I need to get small bakewear (my regular stove-sized casserole dishes won’t fit)? It seems too good to be true (or like trying to cook in an EZ-bake oven), but I’m tempted. So much microwaved food has gotten me craving textures and things that it seems like a microwave doesn’t do well with.
Alternatively, is there some other appliance to try? I know that there are spendy microwaves that also bill themselves as microwaves / convection ovens, but they seem to be built-ins (and not something you’d put on the counter, maybe for venting reasons).
Anonymous
Can you grill outside?
Flats Only
You will find that toaster ovens are a lot bigger than they used to be. I went to replace a circa-1998 one, and all the new ones are twice the size! You could easily heat up a 10″ frozen pizza in them, or bake a dozen cookies or 6 muffins. The oven I bought came with a baking tray that fits it. Other small sized bake ware is pretty cheap.
780
I have a toaster over, and I don’t think you can do real baking in it. Just reheating stuff, and even that it is not great at. I would get an Instant Pot instead. It has so many options so that you can make real meals without a stove.
Pro toaster oven
I cook full things in a toaster oven all the time – I barely use my stove as a consequence. Mine can fit two 10 inch pans so I make cookies, roast potatoes, make fish and chicken, anything you can do in a stove you can do in a toaster oven, you just need to get the right kind. It’s big enough to cook real meals but small enough to take up less counterspace as a full microwave.
Mine is the BLACK+DECKER Countertop Convection Toaster Oven, Silver, CTO6335S
NOLA
If I had space, I would get one of those small oven/convection oven combos, like a Breville Smart Oven.
Anon
I have the Breville Smart Oven and LOVE it. In terms of it fitting your regular dishes, I’d measure them, but it’s a good size, cooks great, heats up quickly, has variable level shelves, and is super versatile. We use it as a toaster, to re-heat food, to cook frozen food, to roast veggies, bake a small amount of cookies, and more. To be honest, I’m pretty sure we haven’t even fully explored everything it can do. My only caution is to make sure that your circuit will handle the load. If we’ve got it at 450+ it’ll blow the circuit, and while I think it’s an issue with how many things are already on that circuit, I did want to raise it. In terms of my favorite kitchen tools, our Breville and our Le Creuset are tied for first.
SC
+1. I love my Breville toaster oven! We use it for anything and everything you’d use a regular oven for. I’ve made small batches of cookies in it and wouldn’t hesitate to make a small batch of brownies, etc.
Stars
+1 on the Breville toaster oven. Love mine so much that DH & I bought one for my parents as a Christmas gift.
Anon
You can bake some things in a toaster oven, but I don’t think casseroles or full-sized cakes would work well. I like it for toasting & broiling things in the summer when I don’t want to heat up the big oven. I think most smaller frozen items would bake ok in a toaster oven.
Anon
How long are you going to be without a stove top and oven? Unless it is going to be a long time, I would only buy a new appliance if it was something I think I would continue to use after the stove is fixed or replaced. For me, that is not a convention oven but may be an instant pot.
N
+1 Instant Pot
pink
I went through over a year of no gas in NYC and managed to cook a ton in my instant pot and toaster oven (KitchenAid that my landlord left in the apartment with a broken knob, but the heating stuff worked).
I managed to fit a staub 10″ casserole dish in it to make frittatas, casseroles and even baked cakes in it with the 10″ cake pan.
my new toaster oven came with a pizza stone even.
I also managed to host thanksgiving with those two appliances…
OITNB
Finished binging yesterday, so sad about the realities of how it all played out. It isn’t that I wanted an unrealistic ending, I just… it’s hard to watch beloved characters’ fate while also watching the news and our real life fate.
That said, I LOVE that they set up a real fundraiser to help women in the prison system! (g00gle “Poussey Washington Fund” if you’re interested)
So anon
Soo… I’ve been dipping my toe back into the dating world and am finding that I am drawn more to men who are, shall we say, the take-charge bordering on non-vanilla type with respect to gardening. This is pretty intriguing to me, but I’ve never really explored this in depth before. It makes sense in a certain regard; I’m an executive leading a global team at work and have a lot of decisions to make, so being able to hand off the decisions to someone else that I trust in my private life is really freeing.
Any recommendations with regards to resources, webs!tes, etc to learn more about this? Or what I could be doing to filter for men who are more my type? Would not want to make this a full on lifestyle, mainly keeping it to gardening. Mid-30s cis hetero woman, not currently seeing anyone. In a major metro area.
Anon
Bye troll!
Anon
This is a regular poster, not a tr0ll. I also think a pretty sizable percentage of people have these kind of interests, and it’s kind of weird to imply someone is tr0lling because they want to learn more about it. (I’m super vanilla, fwiw.)
Anonymous
No she’s a regular poster
Anon
Geez, not everyone is a stuck up prude like you. Let the grown ups have some fun.
Anonymous
Haven’t you been divorced a hot month? With two high needs kids and just moving? Idk maybe slow down a bit?
Anon
This is kind of harsh but was my reaction too. Please be super careful who you bring into your home when your kids are present (as I recall you have almost 100% custody). I think that’s true for any single person dating men, but especially true if you’re interested in men who have this interest.
Anonymous
I have no issue with anyone having this interest but definitely do not engage in this while your kids are in the house. You do not want your kids to hear or see anything upsetting to them that they can’t understand. It’s different if you are in a long term relationship and have arranged your house/family situation to mitigate any risk of kids seeing or hearing anything upsetting to them. Play carefully.
Anon
Maybe just… only get serious with men who are interested in working with you in bed? Maybe it doesn’t have to be a big production or anything.
Anon
I don’t think this is something you can screen for unless you are looking for “gardening only” relationships. If you put that you like…rough gardening in a profile you will attract the very worse type of men and you can’t really tell your friends that’s what you’re looking for (unless you have those types of relationships).
Honestly, what you’re saying you like is…fairly run of the mill to me. It’s not like you’re trying to be a d0minatrix, just someone on the slightly less vanilla scale. There is no personality trait for that and some of the most straight laced guys I’ve dated have been quite opposite in that respect so you never know. Just date who you like and see if you’re compatible. You can train a guy in what you like but can’t change his personality.
Anon
Yeah, I agree that nothing in op’s post sounds that out of the ordinary to me. I’d start with just asking for it from your partners. And I wouldn’t freak out about “protecting” your kids. It’s just normal gardening. (Seriously, do all of you people live under rocks? Do you ever have any fun?)
Anonymous
No one is ‘freaking out’ about protecting kids. Being safe and sane is a key part of play and that applies to family members in the same house. As an example, when toddler is used to being able to get up and crawl into bed with mommy whenever they want, it would be upsetting for them to walk in on mommy tied up.
Anon
I have plenty of fun, but I’m married to my kids’ father and if I weren’t, I would only engage in casual gardening when the kids were with their father or at home with a babysitter, and I’d go to the guy’s house. Men wouldn’t be gardening in my house with my kids around until we were very serious and kids had met him.
Anon
If he comes over after the kids are in bed and leaves before they get up it really shouldn’t be a problem. I get the concern about not introducing him to the kids but there are ways to get around that. It’s like being a teenager again. You have to be sneaky. And unlike being a teenager, have a lock on your bedroom door!
Anonymous
A lock only addresses not immediately walking in. It doesn’t help with a small child who is used to their parent being immediately available who will be quite upset if it takes a while for the door to be opened. Doesn’t mean play can never happen with kids in the house, but it’s a lot easier when either parent can respond to taking the child back to bed and when the parents have early on developed a routine around when kids are and are not allowed in the master bedroom or other areas of the house which may be used for play. Sometimes a room on another floor is the preferred location, but hearing kids via monitor can also take parents out of the right ‘headspace’. Even in married couples, sometimes the preference is to play when kids are not home.
Anonymous
Are you living under a rock? Discussions about how to play safely post-parenthood without inadvertently exposing children to play are common in the community.
anon
f e t l i f e dot c o m
Also a google search to learn more about the normalcy of what you’re feeling may be fascinating, educational and help you understand more about this here-to-for undiscovered aspect of your life.
Definitely go have fun, but make sure you’re prioritizing keeping yourself safe and happy above all else.
Aurora
I am all over this thread today lol. Read Dan Savage, and if the archives are still available the Control Tower advice blog on the stranger was written by a d o m i n a t r i x and talks about submissive stuff a lot, including how to test the waters and try stuff out safely. I haven’t looked at it in years but was a regular reader in college when I was still figuring out what I liked.
So anon
Thanks all; just to clarify I am a regular reader and less frequent poster, but do not have kids or an ex-husband. Sorry for the confusion.
Also appreciate the “validation” as it were that this is not super extreme; I’m primarily looking for a safe, trusting relationship but I also don’t want to invest a ton of time into someone before bringing this up and then finding we’re less compatible that way. Thank you for the resources, and it sounds like once a guy’s determined to have reasonable potential, it’s fine to bring it up earlier rather than later.
Love the ‘rettes!
Adjuncting Gigs
Seeking ideas and guidance… I have multiple masters degrees and some adjuncting and TA experience but am either unqualified to apply for other adjunct roles due to lack of doctorate or I feel like I’m throwing my CV down the rabbit hole when applying as nothing seems to be happening.
Does anyone have insight or experience or something? Looking to adjunct, to TA, to write assignments or curriculum or anything else in this wheelhouse! Not sure how to make this better but need to find more work! (email is okay too if you prefer to be private, IAmAnEpicWarrior at the mail of g!)
Morningstar
What subjects do you teach? What location are you in?
Anonymous
What is your discipline? The main thing you need is to network with the chair of the department containing that discipline at your local community college. Unfortunately, in most disciplines that’s the only place you’re going to be able to teach, although you might try baccalaureate-only institutions in your area. Research universities and masters granting institutions are generally going to have their students as TA and won’t want/need to hire somebody outside their program with a masters, not a PhD. This changes if you’re in a very difficult to hire discipline, like accounting.
Anonymous
try getting an admin job in the college or university. Many of us have a few masters degree but not the doctorate. We still teach as adjuncts and also run programs and supervise.
Anon
After significant consideration, I have cut off contact with a male colleague that became toxic to me. Person became very negative about all aspects of work, leadership decisions, critical of colleagues that are doing well, and prone to lots of negative chatter/gossip. That went on for 6 months and there were some other troubling behaviors….then the last straw was comments about women getting ahead in the workplace because they are “gender hires or meeting the gender quotas”….he was sort of alluding to me and said “don’t get mad”. This is strange because at one time this was a male colleague that I would have trusted and never thought capable of this type of commentary or negativity. I think a downturn in his career contributed to this….appreciate any thoughts or feedback on similar experience
January
I’m not quite sure what you’re looking for here. I’m a little concerned for you, though – is “cutting off contact” with a colleague going to impact your ability to do your job? If so, I’d recommend that you start looking elsewhere (and might recommend that anyway, if your current employer’s culture embraces this sort of thing).
Anonymous
Tell me your before bed routines. I often have trouble falling asleep at night, and I’m thinking it is related to not having any type of “wind down” routine. I know I should get off my cell phone (which is hard…). I just bought some nice lavender-scented lotion, thinking that putting that on before bed might be help me start to relax. Any other ideas?
Vicky Austin
Lavender is great! I like a lavender candle and a mug of warm tea (currently doing a pink lemonade blend from a relative…yum – have also done chamomile and mint). Sometimes I journal, sometimes I don’t. Just staring at the candle while drinking my tea often relaxes me enough, even if I get my phone out for background noise before getting into bed.
busybee
My routine is to make sure my lunch is packed for the next day, I’ve read my planner so I know exactly what my work day looks like, the kitchen is reasonably clean, and all doors are locked/lights are out. If I don’t do these things, my mind races in bed and I invariably get up to double-check the locks, the lights, etc. Knowing that I have a handle on the next day helps put my mind at ease so I don’t lay in bed worrying.
Anon2
I do a 10 minute savasana from YouTube.
Atlien
I’ll set a white noise timer and read until it goes off, then it’s lights out.
anon8
I take a CBD gummy before bed and sometimes watch ASMR videos to relax.
Anon
I take cannabis gummies (all the CBD *and* THC; it’s legal where I live) when I’m really stressed to help me sleep. It’s so helpful.
anon
Jealous.
Anon
I shower, do my skincare, and read.
N
I put my phone away at 8, do my skincare, make sure the sink is empty/house is tidied, and then read until like 9:30. So probably a solid 45 mins to an hour of reading time.
Getting away from your phone is critical, and it took me a long time to get to the point where I could do that. Whatever your routine is, just make sure you keep doing it as a signal to your brain to go the F to sleep.
anon
Does anyone have experience asking to move out of a management position, and back into a more individual contributor role? How did you do it? Did you have to propose a new position to make it happen?
I feel like I’ve given management a fair shot and while I’m not objectively terrible at it, I’m not thriving, either. I can do the work but I don’t enjoy the stress and expectations at all. The job isn’t super well-defined, which leads me to have this gnawing feeling that I’m never fully succeeding, which is important to me. I’d be very OK with giving up my supervisory responsibilities. However … there isn’t an existing role to move me into, so my bosses would have to be willing to create one. I could come up with a role for myself, one that plays to my strengths, but it feels like a gamble. If they say no, what next? The market right now is not great for people in my industry so getting a new job would be a long-term project. Not that I’m going to say this upfront, but I’m willing to take a pay cut if it means having a job that is a better fit for me.
Any advice is welcome!
Anon
DH did this. He had kind of fallen into a management role. (He did not want to take the role on, but the company was having a hard time filling it with anyone else.) He was so burnt out in the position that he ended up looking for a way out about 6 months in. Another “senior” position had become available, so he moved into that and the company hired someone external to take his position. This allowed him to keep his seniority and was less awkward than if he’d moved back into the position he was in before. However, he ended up leaving that job within about 2-3 months after he left the management position. At that point, he knew too much about the management structure and did not see any sort of long-term future for himself at the company. He’s currently in management again at his new company, and it’s much better. For him, the problem was the old company, not actually being in management.
Anon
A friend did this. She was an engineer, moved into management and then went back to just being a regular engineer. For her, it seemed as straightforward as asking to go back. This was all at one company.
Anon
My soon-to-be-ex-boss was definitely in this space (but was objectively bad at it) and ended up getting a non supervisory job at a different org. I don’t think switching back to non management would have worked at our job unless she moved to a different office or unit completely and even that would have been a very awkward transition. Others have done it, but they went from supervisor at location 1 back to non supervisory staff at location 2. I get the impression it’s very dependent on the organization and dynamics.
Anon
Are there any good loafers out there that can be worth with no-show socks comfortably? I like the look of loafers, but simply can’t wear shoes without socks for long because of my sweaty feet and because I want to preserve the shoes for longer. Any ideas would be welcome.
RW
Have you considered an oxford shoe instead of a loafer? I feel like they have a similar vibe, and you can generally wear a no show sock with an oxford. alternatively, some people like the really small shoe liners that just cover your toes and heel basically. I find they slide around/off my foot so they don’t work for me, but some don’t seem to have that issue
Anonymous
If you’re open to trying new socks, I like these for no-shows with my loafers: https://www.amazon.com/VERO-MONTE-Pairs-Womens-TRULY/dp/B07D3KH439
Anon
I wear a lot of loafer/oxford/keds style shoes that cover most of the foot but not enough to cover a no-show ankle sock. I also find socks designed to not show in flats to be obnoxious and never stay on right. However, I found that there’s a sort of hybrid between the two that has a larger foot opening and doesn’t show under loafers. The ones I found were packaged like socks for flats (stretched around cardboard) but labelled “athletic”. I’ve also seen them labelled as “socks for Sperrys”.
Panda Bear
What about sweat absorbing insoles instead of socks?
Anon
Is that a thing?
Pj
Try Summer Soles. / summer soles dot com / I put them in all my shoes and they are great.
N
I wear my gucci loafers with Gekks.
Anon
Posting again for afternoon thread…. After significant consideration, I have cut off contact with a male colleague that became toxic to me. Person became very negative about all aspects of work, leadership decisions, critical of colleagues that are doing well, and prone to lots of negative chatter/gossip. That went on for 6 months and there were some other troubling behaviors….then the last straw was comments about women getting ahead in the workplace because they are “gender hires or meeting the gender quotas”….he was sort of alluding to me and said “don’t get mad”. This is strange because at one time this was a male colleague that I would have trusted and never thought capable of this type of commentary or negativity. I think a downturn in his career contributed to this….appreciate any thoughts or feedback of you’ve had to make a call like this
Anon
I don’t get how you can cut off contact with a colleague. You still have to work together. I would just not be social with me in or outside of the office, but would not make a big public statement about it.
Anon
+1 This seems like a lot of drama when it could be just “don’t interact with this coworker when I don’t have to”
Anonymous
I don’t get this at all. If you don’t have to work with the guy, where was the contact coming from? If you do have to work with the guy, how do you cut off contact? Were you friends outside of work or hanging out together at lunch or something?
Anonymous
Super anon and in need of advice.
We hired a conumting team to help us fundraise for a charity event. The contract was $2500/mo for 6 months. Now, the event is a month away, and we are only 10% of the way to goal. The consultants are nice, but we aren’t seeing results. They have billed monthly and said not worry about paying, that we will catch up. For context, their fee represented 15% of the total goal.
Now, they want at least 1 month payment. I know the goal wasn’t guaranteed. But we aren’t remotely close. In fact, the total bill for their contract exceeds the total amount fundraised thus far. If we pay them the total fee, we will end up in debt with no funds for the cause!
How to go about renegotiating? This is keeping me up at night. I know we need to pay something for their work, but I don’t know what is fair to offer.
Anonymous
What you contracted to pay them is what you must pay them.
Anonymous
This. Does your contract not deal with this situation? You need better contracts.
Anonymous
It may just be a hard lesson learned. None of us are attorneys. Our charity is a small grassroots effort that started in the last year. This consulting firm is new, but they were recommended by someone who works at the nonprofit legal center that helped us set up our incorporation. We used the contract they provided us, and they seemed so confident in their ability to raise the goal for our cause. It is a disappointing situation all around.
Anon
Suggestion: put out a call for a volunteer attorney to help review these items. If you let us know what state you’re in, we can suggest groups, law schools, or even people who can help you with your legal issues.
anon
I agree with the OP that there may be room for negotiation given how badly the fundraising firm has performed, even if the contract is solidly in the firm’s favor. They don’t want terribly unhappy customers out there any more than a law firm, a restaurant, a salon, etc. I don’t know if the charity can get as much written off as a goodwill gesture as it needs, but it’s worth a conversation.
It’s also worth looping back with the lawyer that referred the firm to the charity for strategic advice on the firm in addition to legal advice.
Equestrian attorney
I realize this isn’t super helpful, but the first answer should be what does the contract say? Is payment conditional on meeting certain milestones? It seems hard to push back on paying at least one month, unless they haven’t done anything at all, but your contractual terms (assuming you had a contract) should be your starting point. If not, you should still seek legal advice. If you agreed to pay them X per month for 6 months and haven’t for the past 5 months, you are potentially in breach and may not have the best standing to renegotiate unless the contract gives you an out.
Anonymous
The contract is with our charity group. In our bank account, we have about $3K. The contract says $2500/mo and that may be cancelled at any time by either side without paying the balance of the contract. I suppose they could sue our group for past payment, but it wouldn’t prove very lucrative as they’re aware of what we have in our account. If they got a judgment against our group, I assume our charity would have to dissolve. I don’t want it to come to that point, though. I’m hoping we can work something reasonable out. The contract includes a work plan, much of which hasn’t been done.
Equestrian attorney
I don’t mean to pile on, but if you don’t have enough money in your bank account/guaranteed revenue to meet your basic obligations under a contract, you really shouldn’t be signing contracts (or should be doing so on a pure contingency basis). Not sure what your structure is and what the law is where you are, but be careful about the “whatever, they will just sue us” approach – it can lead to unpleasant surprises. I would recommend (1) seeking legal advice ASAP (presumably pro bono – you can enquire with your local bar association for ressources) and (2) having an upfront conversation with them about your dissatisfaction with their work and see if you can work something out.
Cat
+1
Anon
If they have garnered so little over six months, is it possible that they are in breach of the contract? Have they performed at all? What were they supposed to do under the contract? What were they supposed to produce? Who where they supposed to contact and what evidence is there for all that?
If the answer to all of the above is “I don’t know” or “that is not in the contract” well…I think what you’ve bought is a good lesson in what to do and not to do in fundraising and contracts.
Anon
This doesn’t help for the past, but in the future, I would make such contracts contingent on them raising X amount or be a percentage of what they have raised.
Anonymous
My best childhood friend, maid of honor, and closest thing I have to a sister was just diagnosed with stage 4 pancreatic cancer. She has only 3-6 months tops. I’m so sad for her, her children, just the unfairness of it all. Yet the deadlines at work still go on. How do you still go to work and actually accomplish something when you are overwhelmingly sad? Trying to distract myself but it’s not working.
Anon
That’s awful, I’m so sorry. Can you tell your boss what’s going on? I would certainly understand an employee not performing up to par for a few months in this situation.
Anon
I’m so sorry. I’d take some time off if you can – even unpaid if you can swing it.
Anon
Can you take time off work? Maybe take a week or two off now to spend with her when she is still in relatively ok health, or to go visit her if she doesn’t live in the same state. I can’t image trying to just keep working, and any reasonable person would understand why you need some time off. No work deadline is worth missing time with her at the end of her life.
Anon
I’m so, so sorry. I would take leave if you can, it’s okay and normal for something like this to impact your ability to do work. We’re only human.
Anon
I am so f-ing sorry you are going through this. It is the worst and I wouldn’t wish it on my worst enemy.
My best friend was diagnosed with cancer last March and passed away end of July. The first two months and the last two weeks were….awful. I just did the absolute minimum at work and decided that I didn’t care if my reputation took a hit for looking like I slacked off for months. Still don’t care. She was my best friend and the person I knew would always be there. Work was work.
Go see her. Take time off to be with her at the hospital if she’s there or at home or anywhere. You won’t have this time again. I took off time to see my best friend once during the first month after she found out (she was two states and a four hour plane ride away) and decided that I “couldn’t take more time off” (I could have) and didn’t see her again. Don’t make that mistake. I regret it so much. Be there for her. She needs you and you need the time with her you can get.
I told my boss early on and I told him the last few weeks that if I said “I’m leaving” I wasn’t going to wait for anything or give notice to anyone but him or reschedule anything. If I said I was out of there it was because things had gotten very bad or…it had happened and I knew if I was at work the best thing for me was going to be to GTFO ASAP. I had my phone volume on and in front of me 100% of the time the last few weeks and if her mom texted I was going to read it.
I did what I could. I skipped work for 2 days, I think, after I found out (it was a Saturday) and was on preplanned “vacation” the next week. I kept my door shut and my blinds closed most of the last two weeks and the first week after. I was a mess. I was just barely hanging in there in every way.
It will be what it is. The last thing you need right now is to pressure yourself to be on the ball. Just do what you can.
And again- I am so sorry. I was in your shoes just over 16 months ago and it is hell. Take care of yourself first, and work will fall where it does.
NOLA
I have been working on a project, for the last several days, to move an assignment online that I usually do in person, with a 10 question quiz, or short answer questions. I’m converting the assignments all to multiple choice. This is so tedious that I can say definitively that:
1. The students should be able to figure out which is the correct answer by my tone.
2. They will know for certain that I am a smarta$$
3. That chicken caesar flatbread recipe on Tasty looks really good, but someone would have to make it for me.
NOLA
It’s actually a bowl made out of flatbread. Looks delicious… but complicated.
Anon
I am so confused by everything I’ve just read.
NOLA
It just means that, to save my sanity, I was watching ridiculous cooking videos on Facebook. I finished creating my multiple choice assignments and, I have to say, the last ones were pretty funny and much better than the first three.
Worry about yourself
I know we’ve had some conversations here about people flaking on parties, and some have even had parties where no one showed up. I thought about you guys when this week’s Awesome Etiquette covered the issue, I recommend giving it a listen, it’s the first segment after the introduction.
Anonymous
We have a 3 story house. Garage enters house at the basement/ground level into a mudroom, which then has a stairway to the main floor. There are bathrooms with showers on the ground floor/basement and second floor/bedrooms, but the basement bathroom isn’t used very often for showering.
Would you rather have the laundry be in the basement/right near the garage entrance in the mudroom (which is very close to the kitchen but down a flight of (open) stairs)? Or have second (bedroom) floor laundry?
We currently have a small laundry room on the second floor with the bedrooms. We aren’t going to do 2 laundry rooms/setups. Trying to decide if it would be better to move the laundry down to the mudroom which would give us more of a laundry center and be better for sports gear and messy kitchen stuff, but 2 floors down from where the majority of our laundry comes from (bedrooms/bathrooms we shower in).
Anonymous
Might be an odd suggestion but I would keep your current laundry room and add a washer in the basement. Use the upstairs washer/dryer for clothes/sheets/towels and basement washer for messy kitchen stuff/sports equipment. A lot of sports stuff probably has to go on a drying rack anyway you wouldn’t need a second dryer. But I would put in a good drying rack set up. I don’t see the point of taking out the upstairs one if you might want to still use it.
Anonymous
We actually already have the plumbing for that, and could sneak it into a corner of our downstairs bath. But would it really be that useful without a dryer? My kids are young so we aren’t in full sport mode. I’d want to put kitchen towels, towels from the beach and backwards fun, idk what else honestly.
Anonymous
We have three kids and enjoy hiking/camping/skiing so I use the basement one for muddy rain clothes, dirty sneakers, ski clothes, DH’s hockey stuff, my sweaty gym clothes, camping stuff (love campfires – hate the smell). Some stuff I lug up to put in the dryer, other stuff I hang to dry. I have a great drying rack set up. Being able to run two loads at once is great. I can run ordinary clothes/sheets upstairs at the same time as DH is putting on muddy hiking clothes downstairs.
Anon
I’d go one farther than that and keep the laundry upstairs and install a mop basin (like they have in restaurants/supermarkets) in the garage. To my mind, that would be super useful in that you could give stuff a good rinse/soak, and anything clothing could be brought up for a proper wash. With that setup, you could also attach a hose with hot water if needed, or set up a canning kitchen, homebrew… lots of options.
Worry about yourself
Sounds similar to the setup I had growing up. The house was a split level and we had the laundry off the garage, so it was sort of one and a half flights down from the floor with the bedrooms and bathrooms we used (the laundry room also had a toilet but we rarely used it). I never felt like it was a bad setup, maybe not an ideal setup in hindsight because you’d have to go down so many steps, and a heavy door was involved, and the garage was cold in the winter, but it never occurred to me that the laundry room could or should be anywhere else.
Anon
I would much rather have the laundry room on the floor that the majority of people live on, even if it is a small space. I hate carrying laundry up and down two flights of stairs.
Cat
2nd floor laundry for sure. Maybe keep a laundry basket in the mudroom so dirty sports stuff can easily be quarantined for transport upstairs, but hauling let’s say 80% of your laundry two floors each way is super annoying (plus if you drop any clean clothes on the floor in the mudroom, won’t they feel “dirty” immediately?)
Anonymous
2nd floor laundry is the dream. While some items may need to come upstairs to clean, most items will originate upstairs. The hassle of carrying everything upstairs when you’re done with laundry would be sizable, whereas the few kitchen items you’ll need to carry back downstairs will likely be minimal. Even the items removed in the mudroom for laundry will likely go back to a 2nd floor bedroom for storage until they are used again.
Anonymous
If this isn’t your forever home, I might get a couple of estimates and run them by a realtor for advice. How much would this renovation cost? Will the new laundry room increase the value of your home and if so by how much? Ime, most people really want an upstairs laundry, it’s a big selling point in my neighborhood. Then again, if you have a nice big laundry room downstairs, that might be more attractive than a tiny laundry space upstairs.
Anonymous
It’s our forever enough home, I’m not super concerned about resale *and* I already know how much this will cost. I may live with this a bit more and see how the laundry basket in the mudroom idea works. We have a closet there so I can just stick a hamper there.
I do like the 2nd floor laundry and while the setup isn’t ideal (it’s inside the family bathroom) it beats the heck out of going down two floors to do laundry daily. But I am enticed by a big functional mudroom which has to go in the basement/ground floor. No way to expand the current 2nd floor laundry.
Anonymous
Then put in the big functional mudroom, complete with laundry hookups and the counter space you want. Either put a second set of machine there right away, or just leave the space open with a counter spanning it, so that you can put in set at some time in the future if you want it.
Boom. win / win.
Anonymous
Of your options, I would personally do the basement/mud room. Schlepping clothes laundry to me is just part of life, but bringing in wet towels/sports stuff, etc. and dragging that all through the house upstairs would annoy me so much more.
anon
Unless you do what you said you don’t want to do and have two sets of laundry areas (understandably!), I would keep it on the second floor. The idea for a washer in the basement isn’t terrible. Even if you have to lug it up to the second floor for drying (do people really hang dry their sportswear?), it keeps the grossness contained.
AnonInfinity
I would keep the laundry upstairs. Total anecdata, but I had a 2-story house for a long time. When I would give people tours, probably 2/3 of them commented that it would be soooo nice to have a laundry room upstairs. I just had a basket by the stairs that I’d put gross stuff in to take up. Having that extra full bath and laundry on floor where the clothes have to be put away would be the best set up to me.
Anonymous
If you go with the upstairs option, make sure the room is soundproofed. My BFF has laundry upstairs and it’s constantly waking up her kids when she does laundry in the evening. She add noise absorbing panels which helped a bit.
Winter
I know you said you didn’t want to do two laundry areas, but can I just say that it’s amazing? We have a basement laundry room, which is convenient to the kitchen and guest room on the main floor, but I really love having the small the upstairs laundry room next to our bedrooms. It’s small, and basically tucked into a closet. But it is so much better than lugging laundry up two flights of stairs. If you were open to doing two, you could just tuck a set of stacked machines into the corner of the mudroom or closet, without giving up too much space.