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Splurge Monday’s Workwear Report: Cashmere Cocoon Cardigan

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A white woman with a pale pink button cardigan, white shirt, and jeans

Our daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices.

This brand has been all over my social media feeds for the last few weeks, and although the price is a bit steep, I admit that I’ve been thinking about pulling the trigger.

The slouchy fit probably won’t fly in the most formal of offices, but I would definitely wear this on a day where I knew I’d be tucked in my office, writing a brief or doing some tedious document review.

The sweater is $445 at Nordstrom and comes in sizes S–XXL.

A couple of more affordable options are this plus-size 11 Honoré cardigan ($198) and this cardigan from Project NAADAM ($155).

P.S. Happy Hanukkah to those who celebrate!

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Sales of note for 4/24/25:

  • Nordstrom – 7,710 new markdowns for women!
  • Ann Taylor – Friends of Ann Event: 30% off your entire purchase, including 100s of new arrivals
  • Banana Republic Factory – Up to 50% off everything + extra 25% off
  • Boden – 25% off everything (ends 4/27) (a rare sale!)
  • The Fold – Up to 25% off
  • Eloquii – Spring Clearance: Up to 75% off + extra 50-60% off sale
  • J.Crew – Mid-Season Sale: Up to 60% off sale styles + up to 50% off summer-ready styles
  • J.Crew Factory – Extra 50% off clearance + extra 15% off $100 + extra 20% off $125
  • Kule – Lots of sweaters up to 50% off
  • M.M.LaFleur – 3 pieces for $198. Try code CORPORETTE15 for 15% off
  • Rothy's – Final Few: Up to 50% off last chance styles; new favorites added
  • Spanx – Lots of workwear on sale, some up to 70% off
  • Talbots – Friends & Family Event: 30% off entire purchase, includes markdowns

Sales of note for 4/24/25:

  • Nordstrom – 7,710 new markdowns for women!
  • Ann Taylor – Friends of Ann Event: 30% off your entire purchase, including 100s of new arrivals
  • Banana Republic Factory – Up to 50% off everything + extra 25% off
  • Boden – 25% off everything (ends 4/27) (a rare sale!)
  • The Fold – Up to 25% off
  • Eloquii – Spring Clearance: Up to 75% off + extra 50-60% off sale
  • J.Crew – Mid-Season Sale: Up to 60% off sale styles + up to 50% off summer-ready styles
  • J.Crew Factory – Extra 50% off clearance + extra 15% off $100 + extra 20% off $125
  • Kule – Lots of sweaters up to 50% off
  • M.M.LaFleur – 3 pieces for $198. Try code CORPORETTE15 for 15% off
  • Rothy's – Final Few: Up to 50% off last chance styles; new favorites added
  • Spanx – Lots of workwear on sale, some up to 70% off
  • Talbots – Friends & Family Event: 30% off entire purchase, includes markdowns

And some of our latest threadjacks here at Corporette (reader questions and commentary) — see more here!

Some of our latest threadjacks include:

424 Comments

  2. Any recommendations for work pants without a waistband? Similar to the Betabrand yoga pants
    I work in a fairly casual office, and I’d like to be able to wear pants with the weather here, but I have IBS and just can’t deal with a tight waistband sometimes. I have a pair of JCrew pants with a stretchy waistband that work well, but they don’t sell those anymore. Looking for something with either a stretchy waistband or at least a pair of pants that don’t zip up – somehow those work better.

      1. Oh wow, Modern Citizen looks perfect. I don’t always need it to be literally legging-pants, and these seem like a good in-between. Thanks!

      1. Can’t believe I didn’t know about these, they look great. I actually had a similar pair from Ann Taylor but the elastic wore out. Of course my size is currently sold out but will keep an eye out.

    4. I just ordered a pair of Hayden pull-on pants from Banana Republic Factory. My size was backordered so I can’t speak to their fit yet, but those might work for you.

      1. Looks like BR factory has a few good options, thanks. But wow, theyre all backordered until February now!

    5. I have a very comfortable pair from Ann Taylor Loft. They don’t seem to be in stock of the exact style I have but they have some other pull on options. The fabric is more crepe and less ponte. I also have some comfortable pants from Talbots, although they are not pull on.

    6. Check out Old Navy. I have a kid with sensory issues (who is in adult sizes) and I’ve found her some pull-on pants (that look like normal pants) with an elastic waist and loose-ish legs. Gap had some also over the summer but IIRC I only found plain black at ON.

    7. Universal Standard has lots of options. I bought a pair of ponte pants expecting them to be weekend-only but they look nice enough I can wear them to the office.

    8. I really like the NoGA pants from Duluth Trading Company. They come in a variety of styles. They might read a little casual, though, depending on your workplace.

    9. Nic and Zoe wonderstretch pants. All of my work pants are either those or the Betabrand yoga office pants.

    11. For ankle length, the Karen Kane Piper Pant. For longer, go to the Macy’s website and type in “pull on pants” for options from the Alfani and Charter Club brands (I have several).

    12. Hear me out, but Chico’s has some professional looking pull on/stretchy waist band pants. I find them much more comfortable and flattering than the Eileen Fisher options.

      1. late to post. there’s a maternity pair at nordstrom that would work for you. they look normal but panel over intestine area is softer and can stretch.

        IBS secret ; )

  3. My DH over the holiday mentioned he was invited on an international trip with friends and was considering going. My immediate reaction was basically that I wouldn’t be happy about it, and now I’m thinking I was maybe being unreasonable. The issue behind my frustration is that we got a dog a few years ago that I didn’t really want, with the understanding he would do the heavy lifting. He has held up his end of the bargain, but I do about 40% of the work and care for her fully when he’s occasionally away on business. She is a working dog and requires about 2 hours of activity a day, which is a lot to manage for one person. I feel frustrated when he has to go on work travel too, but it seems so much worse when it’s a fun trip for some reason. Since I’m sure this will be asked, right now she can’t be boarded and can’t use a dog walker due to health and behavioral challenges that we are working on. Am I being a jerk?

    1. He is the one being unfair, but not because of the dog. I don’t think it’s fair for either spouse to take an expensive vacation without the other, unless you are so rich that vacation funds are unlimited.

      1. Wow that seems really harsh to me. My husband I have a healthy vacation budget but not unlimited, and I would be pretty horrified if he told me I couldn’t travel alone or with friends I’d be pretty horrified. This year I’m doing a solo week at a destination spa and a week on a yacht with my mom. Neither trip is cheap.

        1. Agreed. It’s also so important to maintain yourself as an individual outside your relationship.

        2. Agree totally with this. I went on a trip with friends earlier this year (not international, but not cheap either) and my husband was fine with it and encouraged me to go. He’s gone on solo trips to go fishing or see family. (Believe me, missing out on the fishing trips was not a hardship for me on any level. Ditto with the family visits, if I’m being honest.) We’ve been married over 20 years. He is a person separate from me, and I am a person separate from him. I don’t know if our relationship would work, actually, if it were any other way.

      2. No one said anything about expense? Not all international trips have to be super pricey.

        1. Yeah, “international” could be a weekend going from Los Angeles to Cabo.

      4. I think that goes beyond the scope of this question, what’s normal for one couple (i.e. traveling only together) is the opposite for others. I personally would never discourage spouse from taking trips if we could afford it and things were arranged well in advance, but very much understand that’s not the same for everyone.

    2. I don’t know about a jerk, but you’ve got a different approach than I do. I think it’s really important for both people in a relationship to maintain a life they have fun living, and that includes taking trips with friends. My husband and I both take trips with our friends and figure out how to hold down the fort while the other is gone. Yes, sometimes that’s taking care of the dog all the time or whatever else we usually split.

    3. No, you’re not being unreasonable. A high-effort animal with behavioral problems that you didn’t even want falls squarely into “his problem” territory. He should not be out partying until the dog is fully under control.

    4. I think the problem of needing someone else to walk your dog is easy to solve and you should ask him to focus on that. There are specialty trainers, specialist dog walkers, special boarding places etc. Instead of saying no, why not “how fun! Being fully in charge of the dog is rough on me so please figure out a dog walker before the trip.”

    5. When I used to travel for work, my husband would take the dog to day care those days or we’d get a dog walker. If he’s going to go on the trip, I’d see if he can investigate someone coming on the days he’s gone to take the dog on a long walk and therefore ease the burden on you.

      1. apologies, just saw the dog walker thing above. maybe instead of that, you can make things easier on yourself in another way that week. Get grocery delivery, takeout, etc.

    6. I think it’s okay for you to say that he needs to find somebody else to look after the dog while he’s gone. I hear you that there are obstacles, but that sounds like his problem to solve, whether he treats the trip as a deadline for figuring out the challenges, or whether he finds some exceptionally qualified dog handler who can handle these challenges, he just needs to not volunteer you for the job.

      1. Agree with this. And I commented above that I am a fan of people in relationships going on separate trips and totally support the husband’s desire to go on the trip. But then taking care of the dog becomes his problem to solve.

        One of my friends has a dog with behavioral issues that can’t be boarded in a traditional facility, but she found a dogsitter who is also a dog trainer, who cares for the dog in her (the sitter’s) home, and while the dog is there they work on the behavioral issues and she reinforces the training regimen the dog is on. The sitter/trainer only cares for one dog at a time, two at the most if it’s proven they can get along. It is not cheap, but it’s the only way my friend can ever leave town, because this dog has proven not to be boardable or able to be handled by an average dogsitter. He’s getting better, but is still quite challenging for someone who doesn’t have a lot of experience with difficult dogs. My friend found the dogsitter on Care dot com.

        OP, I would frame this to your husband as “I think the trip sounds like a great idea, but you know the dog is too much for me to handle on my own, so what are your plans for Fido when you’re on your trip?” If he hems and haws, or asks you to take care of the dog, I would shrug and say “as I said, Fido is too much for me to handle, so you need some kind of plan for who’s going to care for him while you’re gone.” And leave it at that. If he asks for help brainstorming or finding a solution, you can consider offering some (like making suggestions about a trainer/sitter). If the day of departure draws near and there’s still no plan, you’ll likely have to have a confrontation where either a plan comes together quickly or he doesn’t go. I am not a fan of ultimatums in relationships, but I do believe in being clear. So be clear: the dog is not going to be your primary responsibility while he’s on the trip. He has to come up with another plan.

    7. I understand that you didn’t want the dog, and it sounds like this is a dog with uncommonly high needs. But you and your husband are a team, and he mentioned that he was considering the trip, rather than announcing that he was going. In my marriage, we would talk it over and I would hard to make the trip possible for my spouse. I want him to have fun and do things independently, and I know he would try to support me if things were reversed. I think the suggestion to do other things that make your life easier when your husband is out of town is a great one. Ultimately, you are talking about about 14 hours for the week, at 2 hours a day, so buy yourself that much time with delivered groceries or carryout so that you can be supportive without resentment.

      1. I think this is the way to go. I would try to approach it as “OK, but if you go, what happens to the dog? It’s a lot for me to handle 100% for that much time” Ideally he can suggest something like daycare, a Rover sitter, or a friend who can help out. But otherwise, he can suggest something else – takeout, cleaning service, he takes care of the dog 100% for the following month, etc. Point is, I think he should be allowed to go if he can (and it doesn’t otherwise interfere with your vacation plans together as noted above), but he should be finding a way to make it up to you.

    8. It seems that your biggest objection to his trip is related to your dog. First, behavioral challenges after several years of having a dog is not a great situation, though it sounds like you are working on it. Still, an adult dog should be better behaved than this.

      I suggest that your husband find a dog walker who can do a daily 2 hour hike with your dog, someone experienced who can manage your dog. You can then do a few shorter walks for bathroom needs, but not the exercise needs. Think about not having to deal with the dog–does that make the trip better?

      Doggie Daycare while he is away is an option if the behavioral or health issues are ok in a group setting.

      Going on a trip like this is good for spouses, I think–marriage is long, and we need to have fun and breaks from the daily routines. Hugs to you.

      1. Our dog trainer will board dogs he trains and there is such a thing as sleep-away training camp that my neighbors have used. Yes, it is bougie. But maybe this is what your dog needs anyway.

        1. I had our puppy go to a 2-week board and train program last summer. I think it was $600, which is on the lower end for those type of programs. We were going to have to pay to board her anyway while out of town, and the trainer was great. The dog benefitted from a few of concentrated hours of training per day, plus she got in some socialization which I was much more nervous training on myself. It was a life-changer for a dog that previously was crazy on a leash and nervous, barking mess around other dogs.

        2. I would love to be able to board her but trust me when I say it is not possible or safe. To put it in perspective, even the emergency vet didn’t want to keep her overnight when she was dangerously dehydrated, so they asked us to monitor her after administering fluids and bring her back the next morning. I am part of an online community of dog owners dealing with the same condition, Addison’s disease, and even without the added behavioral challenges many of them are also unable to board their pets because the stress of being away can send them into a potentially deadly crisis. It’s a very difficult situation we could never have anticipated, and while it’s tough sometimes we also feel lucky that we have been in a position to provide her with the lifestyle and specialized care she needs.

          1. I mean, people who have dogs with Addison’s sometimes have to go away, I promise you that not everyone who has an a-dog is shackled to their home. It is not a solution for you to never be able to leave the dog alone.

            An in home pet sitter might also be an option. You’d have to develop a relationship with them so you feel comfortable, obviously, but it might be easier on the dog.

          2. Would you feel better if he (re)committed to taking over more of the care when he is in town? I understand the health issues and that you can’t board or introduce more stress, so the options are he doesn’t go on trips solo while the dog is alive (unreasonable IMO) or he takes on more of the work while he is in town so that he is actually living up to the terms of the deal you agreed to when you got the dog (or you rehome the dog, the stress of which could kill her).

            I think the discussion is much larger than this trip. The discussion is that he hasn’t lived up to his end of the bargain and that needs to be remedied.

          3. I completely believe you the dog cannot be boarded, but I’m also hearing that you need more support in managing this. What if your husband hired a dog walker to walk the dog together with them, so the dog gradually got to know and trust the new dog walker, who could then help while he’s traveling? Basically why is it only you and your husband?

          4. I get it. It’s not worth risking. Maybe the vet can recommend an experienced person to help with the exercise needs that week? Not the same, but mine helped me get someone specialized when I needed to be away from my prior dog with cancer for a day trip. A trainer might be up for a 2 hour hike while you could feel comfortable knowing they could handle the behavioral part. If you can get them helping out even before the trip, it can help get the dog used to the person and help set your mind at ease. If that’s still not workable, then I’d do what someone upthread recommended and work with your husband to outsource other tasks wherever possible and get you a serious vacation of your own (or some other way to unwind) when he gets back. You’re a team. Just like you’ll have his back on this, he can then have your back.

        3. +1. If the dog is still having this many problems, sleep-away training camp may be a really, really good idea at this point.

    9. If the dog is your only issue with the trip, I recommend that you tell him it’s totally cool for him to go on his international guys trip. And you will be going on a trip at the same time. You are not available to take care of the dog while he is away. I get that you think it’s impossible to find someone to care for the dog but it’s really unlikely that that’s true. Single people have difficult dogs that need care when they have to travel for work. If DH were single he would’ve found someone. Don’t let him dump the dog on you because it’s more convenient for him.

      1. +1 we have an unbelievably neurotic and high needs dog and we’ve found sitters on Rover that can care for her. I don’t believe for one second that it’s impossible to board the dog.

      2. This is a great approach.

        I understand that the dog has issues — but there are people who can help with that, it will just cost more than dogs without issues. But I think it’s very reasonable for you to say that he needs to figure this out before he goes, and that you won’t be available to help.

      3. I think people are misinterpreting when I said behavioral challenges to mean the dog needs to be trained and this is not the case. She is trained and she is extremely obedient. I should have probably said personality challenges because it is more of an anxiety issue that is somewhat related to her health condition and/or treatment. I really didn’t want to get into the details of that because it’s not relevant to my question but she cannot be boarded or left here alone for a week with walkers – it is possible the stress of it would kill her.

        1. Then your husband doesn’t travel or takes the dog with him on his travels. This is insane, and goes way beyond normal dog owner responsibilities.

        2. But you could have a walker come while you are home, if it’s not behavioral issues? Many people are suggesting that.

        4. So yes, that actually is relevant information – “can’t be boarded due to a health condition that can kill her” is a different situation than a dog with training challenges who can’t be boarded. Now that you’ve clarified, I think I have a different opinion: neither you or your husband asked for or could have anticipated the Addison’s disease. That’s an unfortunate circumstance, but you made a commitment to the animal and the animal’s well-being that has to be upheld. I think you need to suck it up and take care of the dog while he’s away. This is not substantially different than having a child and then the child turns out to have special needs (p.s., I am in that situation). You end up in territory you never thought you’d be in, and unfortunately, sacrifices sometimes need to be made. This isn’t a fair situation for either of you, but holding your husband back from participating in a life activity he really wants to do, because you don’t want to deal with the consequences of the dog’s health (which your husband didn’t ask for and can’t do anything about other than what he’s doing), is particularly unfair to him. If you feel like the only way you can get right with this is for everything to be Even Steven between the two of you, later next year you should take a trip with friends or by yourself and leave him with the dog. Going into a position of “I don’t want to do this and you can’t make me” isn’t a very mature way to handle an unfortunate situation that ideally, neither of you would have chosen. If this is going to be this big of an issue for you, consider re-homing the dog (and I say that as the parent of a special-needs dog AND a special-needs kid). If your husband is doing 60% of the dog care most of the time, he’s carrying his share of the burden; there is no such thing as a household where one person does 100% of the pet care, IME. I don’t think that would be a good situation and if that’s the “agreement” made to get a pet – “I’ll agree to this but you have to do 100% of the work” – that household probably shouldn’t have the pet in the first place.

          I will also say, this is why when people post here about “should we get a dog/cat if my partner wants one and I don’t” (or the similar question about having kids comes up), the answer here is always “no, don’t do it.” Because the commitment to the animal can be decades long, you rarely know what you’re getting in terms of the animal’s health, and whatever happens, you have to be prepared to deal with it. You might have agreed to the dog reluctantly, but you agreed. You’re an adult. So now, put the dog’s needs ahead of your own resentment for a week and take care of the dog while you’re husband’s out of town.

        5. This dog does not sound compatible with having a life, much less taking a vacation. Frankly an animal this fragile is one I’d consider putting down, and I’ve been a pet owner and foster for over two decades, so I don’t say that lightly.

          1. She is able to live a completely normal life while she is properly medicated, but she does need to avoid extreme stress (like boarding). In our day to day her condition doesn’t have any ill effects, her drive and activity level is the only part I really find to be a challenge. I would never consider putting her down for being inconvenient, she is part of the family and a wonderful companion.

          2. +1. Do you also never travel together? It sounds like this animal is ruining your lives.

          3. My thoughts exactly. Is this animal even happy and living a good life, despite all the work you’re clearly putting into him?

          4. Going to a trusted dog sitter shouldn’t be “extreme stress” though. I feel like you’re giving up on this too easily. Pay someone for multiple visits at your home with you present, so dog can get comfortable with the sitter, then having the sitter watch your dog while you’re out of town shouldn’t cause your dog undue stress. This trip aside, I don’t see how never being away from your dog is practical or sustainable. That’s not an “inconvenience”; that’s derailing your entire life. An inconvenience is having to pay more to get your dog a boarding arrangement that is safe and not stressful.

          5. Chiming in to say there’s a lot of different ways to board a dog. Mine goes to doggy day care and stays with her handlers from the day care in their homes while we’re gone. So yes, it’s technically boarding, but it goes well because the dog knows and trusts the people (she loves going to day care but is a needy/anxious dog otherwise). I wouldn’t let her stay with any old person, nor would I board her in a kennel type situation given her personality. My point is really there are a lot of options and you really should look into them because not traveling for 10+ years is a lot to ask.

        6. Can the vet prescribe doggy prozac or whatever? If the dog can’t be boarded then it’s your husband’s problem full stop, he picked out the dog and needs to figure it out.

        7. Can you talk to your vet about stress dose steroids? That is how physiologic stress is handled in humans with Addisons and this experience for a dog does create physiologic distress.

      4. This is truly horrible advice. It’s not all how you work as a team in a marriage. Sometimes you do what you can to get your spouse what they want and sometimes they do what they can to help you achieve what you want.If you want to continue to think single then it’s best to stay single.

        1. Being part of a team doesn’t mean setting yourself on fire to keep someone else warm. OP has been a good teammate, she’s doing 40% of the work for a dog her husband wanted but she didn’t, even though he said he would take care of it. She’s also looking after the dog 100% when he travels for work, which is not infrequently. She’s gone above and beyond to give husband what he wants – a dog. The fact that she’s not willing to do that so he can go party without her is a totally reasonable boundary. He’s the one who should be giving her what she wants – less dog responsibility – which is also what he promised her when he begged her to get the dog in the first place.

    10. Can you clarify what issues prevent you from hiring a dog walker or boarding her? I think the huge amount of dog owners here might be able to give you some out of the box ideas.

      1. Yeah I had the same thought. A few of my friends have dogs with various issues and have found solutions so maybe we’d have some suggestions!

    11. Honestly I would not be interested in being married to someone who doesn’t want me taking trips with my friends (within reason- assuming we can afford it, I still take trips with my spouse, leaving the Homefront is not insurmountable, etc).

      That being said – dog sounds like a pain but I’m sure there’s some sort of dog walker/trainer who can come exercise the dog while your husband is away. I’d look into that option, I highly doubt that all options are off the table due to behavior.

    12. I would tell him it’s fine to go but he needs to make arrangements for the dog to stay with someone else while he’s gone. If the dog is so aggressive it literally can’t be boarded, it’s a danger to society and needs to be put down. I’m a dog owner, fwiw.

      1. 100% agree. I am a dog owner that had a very aggressive dog with behavioral issues a mile long (and who was eventually unfortunately put down due to them). And we had an amazing dog sitter. If this is *really* just about the dog, tell him to make arrangements. if you feel like helping, suggest speaking with local animal rescue shelters/groups for resources. They often handle Dogs With Issues and will almost certainly have suggestions.

    13. He sounds a little selfish. First he gets a dog you don’t want and expects you to be his backup anytime he has to travel. Then he considers solo travel without even addressing the dog issue. Is this it, or are these part of a pattern of entitlement?

      1. He is generally a wonderful husband and we have a great relationship. The dog has caused some strife because it has been so challenging and it was a rocky start being not at all what we expected, but otherwise things are good. Since he wanted the dog and has a much more flexible job, I don’t think he views all of the time caring for her as as much of an inconvenience as I do. I love her, don’t get me wrong, but 2 hours a day of activity is hard for me on top of a full day of work and all the other things that have to happen. I just find it overwhelming.

        1. I think that’s realistic. I’d just say that to your spouse — I’m excited for this trip but can’t handle the dog on my own, how do you propose we make this work? And it’s up to him to find a solution. If he travels regularly, sounds like it’s a need that isn’t isolated to this big trip so would be good for everyone involved to find a way to make this more manageable.

    14. Board the dog! Plan something fun for yourself too!

      My husband and I have gone on separate trips. We absolutely hire lots of babysitting/grandparent sleepovers / etc while the other is gone. It is good for each of us to go on solo trips with friends.

      1. I see your follow-up comments. It may seem daunting to find a suitable sitter for your dog, but it sounds like that needs to be a priority for your household (trip or not) because the lifestyle you are describing is not sustainable or healthy for any of you. Your husband needs to take the lead on finding care, or seriously consider rehoming. (This sounds harsh, but euthanization could be on the table too.)

    15. I appreciate the feedback I’ve received and it confirmed that this is a bigger issue for me and not about an individual trip, as I don’t have any issue with that and he’s done it before pre dog. I will give this some more thought before reopening the conversation. Thank you for the different perspectives.

    16. For me, the question is whether he’d do the same for you.

      If yes, then I’d suck it up. If no, then I’d be much harsher.

      Either way, it sounds like this dog is an ongoing problem in your lives and you do need to address it outside of whether your husband goes on a trip or not. Throw some money at a trainer and help the dog learn to be OK being in someone else’s care. You currently can’t even go away together with your husband, and dogs live 10-15 years, so you need to figure this out.

    17. Even outside of this work trip, I think your family needs a back up plan for who will care for the dog in case of an emergency. What if both you and your husband are unavailable for some amount of time? You don’t want to be scrambling last minute to make plans. It sounds like you’re taking great care of the dog and accommodating her needs, but you need to be able to travel and have a life too. Maybe others in the FB group has ideas? I would also have a serious conversation with your vet and get a second opinion if needed. Good luck. Caring for animals can certainly be difficult and stressful at times.

      1. +1 when one of your parents dies are you not going to go to the funeral? Are you never going to attend a family or friend wedding or graduation ceremony with your spouse? I sure hope you don’t want kids because they don’t allow dogs in hospital maternity wards.
        This trip may not a big deal, but I don’t see how you go the next 10-15 years never being able to be apart from the dog.

    18. Seems like your issue is not the trip per se, but rather dog care. So make this a win-win, he goes on the trip, y’all board the dog for the duration of the trip, everyone is happy.

  4. Talk to me about breakfast burritos! I live in Europe and like a savoury breakfast, what do you like in them and can you really make ahead and freeze like all the recipes suggest?

    1. I don’t get the point of freezing things like that – it takes just as long to thaw and microwave as making a fresh one would. But basically it’s anything you want in a tortilla. I do scrambled eggs, cheese, sausage and salsa.

      1. It’s a timing thing, though. I can grab it out of my freezer and toss it in my bag. By the time I get to work it’s mostly thawed, I just pop it in the microwave for ~1 minute and I can eat at my desk. So, does it take as much time to thaw and heat? Sure, but it’s not hands on time.

      2. Not sure how cold your burrito is, but my frozen burritos go from frozen to piping hot in three minutes in the microwave. Especially if it involves things like eggs and meat, it will always be quicker to thaw out in microwave thank make on the spot. Not everyone has 20 minutes in the mornings to cut veggies, scramble eggs and cook bacon for one burrito.

        1. Well, depends on what you prioritize really. Everyone does, you just get up earlier. I get not wanting to, but it’s not some privilege.

          1. Oh go away. Really, this is ridiculous. She wants to freeze something. This is not a license for you to pass judgment on how someone prioritizes their time. But enjoy being perfect.

          3. Wow, maybe you should have prioritized sleeping longer, you clearly woke up on the wrong side of the bed.

      3. I have sweet potato and black bean burritos in my freezer that are fully cooked without thawing in one minute.

    2. I agree with the sentiment that they are pretty fast to cook fresh and they taste much better that way. But if you want tips, Smitten Kitchen blog has a make ahead recipe. Nadiya’s (GBBO) show had a recipe for egg tortilla roll-ups that was basically a breakfast burito in a different shape. She scrambled the eggs/fillings in the pan, then added cheese on top and used that to ‘glue’ the tortilla on top before flipping it and toasting the bottom. Frankly I’m not a huge egg person so I’ve done just quesadillas with ready made pico/guac for breakfast before. No huge difference between that and avocado toast imho.

    3. If you are okay with cooking your savory breakfast once a week, I do a egg bake every sunday, portion it 5 ways and eat it M-F mornings.
      Mine normally is 6 eggs, a splash of milk, a tablespoon or so of sour cream or plain yogurt, 1/2 pound sausage drained well, red onion, bell pepper and broccoli (both food processed until they are between chopped and minced.

      sausage cooked on its own to start, veg sauteed on their own and then drain the liquid as much as I can from then, all mixed, baked at 350 for 40ish minutes until solid

      1. Tip from a non-american: If you say sausage, the kind of minced meat that you (probably) mean, is not what springs to mind. I always have to translate from my mental image of sausage links to minced, spiced meat when I read sausage in recipes like this.

    4. I make them fresh but do: red and green peppers, black beans, eggs, salsa, hot sauce. You can add cheese, but I find it’s extra calories for flavor that gets lost. You can also add in sausage or swap it for beans.

      My daughter (8) makes herself ham, egg, and spinach and dumps it in a burrito wrapper. She froze a tray of them over the weekend thinking it will save her time this week…turns out unwrapping and thawing takes almost as long and they are “tons mushier.”

      1. Note this may be technique — spinach needs to be cooked a while to release liquid before frozen or you get mush. But I will tell you that the breakfast burritos I froze pre-partum are delicious… and their only vegetable is potatoes, because veggies are tricky to freeze and thaw. I just made paprika potatoes, eggs, black beans, and rolled together with just enough cheese to hold it together.

    5. I think freezing them wouldn’t be great and seems unnecessary. Eggs are quick and easy to cook and then just add whatever else you like – cheese, potato (could precook this), salsa, guac, etc. Whatever you do make sure to use a recipe that isn’t from a British source – I’m sure it’s not universal but British Mexican food can be horrifying, even from well respected celebrity chefs.

      1. Ha, I have to laugh because I HAVE found good Mexican food in London but it took a LOT of searching and some pretty horrifying dishes (no, your beans are not the ‘same’ as refried beans and cannot be used interchangeably, yuck).

          1. I’ve come across Mexican spaghetti in Ireland. I think it involved pico and queso on spaghetti noodles.

          2. In a central European country (which I LOVED living in, no shade) the Mexican food had Edam cheese (a mild, nutty medium-hard cheese) and I once got a chicken enchilada that had chicken bones INSIDE. No.

    6. I’ve done this before and they worked out fine. I followed the receipt from Budget Bytes for homemade breakfast burritos.

    7. I have frozen breakfast burritos, with mixed results. Sometimes the various components get a little soggy/watery, or they don’t heat as evenly as I’d prefer. What you could consider is making a batch on Sundays and keeping them refrigerated until you’re ready to heat in the microwave.

      LOLZ to the poster who is all “just make them fresh every morning!” That … is not a great use of time in every situation, IMO. Nothing wrong with being a grab-and-go breakfast person.

    8. I don’t freeze mine but I do make them ahead and keep in the fridge for a few days. I put–scrambled eggs, bacon, hashbrowns, cheese, and some kind of chile (I live in New Mexico and so have a freezer full of green chile, but could also do jalepeno or some other pepper.) I sometimes cook additional veggies with the eggs like spinach, red bell pepper, mushroom, but not always. I sometimes add pinto or black beans, but again not always. Then wrap everything in a tortilla and wrap in foil. I think they have a much better texture if they are warmed in the oven instead of the microwave, so as soon as I get up I turn on the oven and put them in. Then once I am finished getting ready, the burrito is nice and warm. I wrap in a towel and eat whenever I get where I am going.

    10. I like scrambled eggs, cheese and vegetarian “sausage.” I first made and froze them for a camping trip and they were very convenient and yummy. (Threw them in the cooler and later in the camping week they had thawed and, as I had wrapped them in aluminum foil, we just put them on the grate over the campfire to heat up. No dishes at the campsite is great. I have since done them to eat at home and I find it convenient to microwave them from frozen (not in aluminum foil obviously).

      I also like a local restaurant’s version that includes tater tots, but I have not made those myself and I don’t know if the crispy potatoes would hold up to freezing as well.

  5. I am the least outdoorsy person that I know. My husband has recently been mentioning camping even though he doesn’t have any experience either. I was thinking it might be nice to rent a cabin in the woods somewhere as a compromise. I’m good with the day hiking, but would like to come back to a nice place to sleep. I tried looking online and everything I found is old and decrepit log cabin type places. Where can I find a modern, clean (or even “luxury”) cabin within driving distance of Virginia?

      2. Probably, but I was hoping for recommendations for an area to look that might have more modern accommodations than what I’ve come up with. I would rather sleep in a tent I think than an old dirty cabin. I am willing to spend a bit on a place to make this happen.

        1. What is your budget and must-haves or dealbreakers? Most of the places for rent on VRBO near national parks/popular outdoor areas are nicer than my house. I have a feeling your concept of “old dirty cabin” differs substantially from mine. Surely you can find plenty of places to stay that aren’t hunting cabins with bunk beds and an outhouse, right?

        2. A lot of parks have Yurts if you want something more rustic than a cabin but a step up from a tent. I’ve also seen yurts, treehouses, or RVs on Airbnb if you want to try there. I think you can filter for unique stays or outdoor centric houses and they will pop up.

    2. Someone I know said that Lydia Mountain, just outside Shenandoah National Park, has some nice clean new cabins. You could also try the lodges at Shenandoah. Not fancy, but not as awful as a privately owned AirBNB or VRBO. Skylands is newer than Big Meadows. Not the park cabins, though. Those are horrid.

        3. This is definitely not what I had in mind when I said modern. I am admittedly a bit of an accommodations snob and I am looking for something probably most people would consider luxury or very high end. I was able to find one in West Virginia but haven’t found anything else. Budget is $500 a night range but would go up a bit for the right property. No objections to airbnb here.

          1. If you’re looking for something that high end in a outdoorsy place, you might have trouble.

            Would recommend places like the Greenbrier or Sky Top. Or, near high end ski resorts (but you’ll likely have to travel further)

          3. I get what the OP is saying. I love day hikes. I also love hot running water, not having to put on boots / rain gear to go out to pee, and not having to deal with full-on meals on the trail vs just packing water and snacks. Not everyone needs 24/7 nature. I’m fine with the sleeping hours being indoors.

            [Also, as a woman, I never felt safe with the idea of solo-camping and my friends are also not outdoorsy, so a locking door gave me a lot of peace of mind.]

          6. There’s a huge difference between wanting indoor plumbing, a full kitchen and a warm bed and thinking that what Pugs posted is not modern/nice enough!

            I like to either camp or hike – I have no interest in sleeping in a tent after a 14 mile hike – I absolutely want a hot shower and comfy bed after that! If I’m camping I’m usually just chilling, reading, and doing water activities. But, something like what Pugs posted would be nicer than what I usually stay in on hiking trips!

          7. +1 to looking for a resort near a ski area, esp in the summer there are lots of hiking options. Also, sometimes you can take a lift up to the top and then hike down. I think the idea of a luxury + outdoorsy vacation sounds lovely! It would be amazing to do a long day hike and then get a massage or some spa time.

            Btw I always think it’s so interesting to see the differences in what the definitions of “modern” are! No shade, you deserve to have a vacation that will be what you want. (But also, what Pugs posted is nicer than any of the places I’ve lived in for the past 5+ years, lol …)

    4. The Greenbrier. Only sort of kidding. Maybe look for a VRBO near Lexington or out that way.

      1. Commenting to my comment: for the cost of a 1-BR cottage at the Greenbrier, you can buy a super-nice apartment-sized tent. But at the Greenbrier (or even other cute places in White Sulphur Springs), you are near some really good day hiking spots. Also, the New River Trail is very nice (and mostly flat) and you can stay in the Hotel Roanoke if you want to be fancy for coming back inside.

    5. If you want luxury plus rustic then you’re looking at ski areas or other places that attract primarily moneyed tourists. Idk if you’re going to find a lot of options near VA. There’s a ton of places that fit the bill in the Poconos. Maybe the mountains of NC?

    6. What about something by Lake Anna or Deep Creek Lake? Lake houses can be more updated/destination vacation feeling than cabins. I had a friend do get covid honeymoon at Lake Anna so there are definitely “nice enough” places there.

    8. A lot of the state parks in MD, VA, and maybe even Delaware have cabins/hurts/houses you can rent in the park. I’ve stayed in one at Jane’s Island in MD for example. Check the state park websites – you can search by lodging type.

      1. Sorry just re-reading – these cabins are most likely not what you are looking for.

    10. Do you guys have any friends who camp regularly? Tagging along with them is going to be much easier than starting off yourself.

    11. Do you have the term ‘glamping’ in the US? In the U.K. I would look at glamping websites like Canopy & Stars to find something like this – might be worth looking at their website to get an idea of search terms to use?

    12. My husband and I are similar–appreciate day hikes and campfires, but prefer sleeping in a shelter with a roof and a bed and modern plumbing. We’ve had great luck renting cabins in state parks in our state and a neighboring state. They’re relatively inexpensive, and the cabins have been basic (not luxury) but clean and with modern amenities, sheets, towels, dishes, etc.

    14. We did Getaway and loved it! It’s a very tiny cabin in the woods with a huge window so you feel like you’re sleeping outside. It’s not a luxury resort, but it is set up for people who are not natural campers. And everything was scrupulously clean.

    16. No specific recommendations, but high end golf resorts generally have good accommodations.

  6. I’m leaving my job soon to move on to another one, and really don’t want to have a goodbye party via Zoom (my company is still entirely WFH). Under normal circumstances, I’d be totally OK having an in-person farewell gathering where people could mingle and I could say goodbye to colleagues individually or in small groups. But the Zoom farewells I’ve been to have felt awkward and kind of forced. Is there a graceful way to decline if my boss brings up the idea of a goodbye gathering via Zoom? Or is this a situation where I just need to grin and bear it and go through with it?

    1. Grin and bear it. And if you’re comfortable go have a drink with some people in person.

      1. +1 it’s a small price to pay to keep good will amongst old colleagues. I suggest a 15 to 30 minute zoom party during a “work break” time so people are limited with how long they can spend.

    3. My office is still fully WfH but has had some in person outdoor gatherings for departing employees. It’s worth telling people you prefer an in person thing.

    4. When I left my fully remote job over the summer my manager asked if I wanted a sendoff via Teams. I thanked her for asking and politely declined. It wasn’t a big deal. I sent a brief email with my LinkedIn if anyone wanted to connect. I’ve been in touch with co-workers from that job since. You don’t need a forced interaction to maintain goodwill.

    5. I’d just grin and bear it – these are as much for the people staying behind as the departing, helps give closure. And if it’s the norm and you say no, people will assume there was a falling out or you’re leaving on bad terms which you probably don’t want and your bosses definitely don’t want because it leads to gossip and bad morale.

  7. Recommendations for fancier boxers to get for my DH? All his current ones are Old Navy and Costco, but I thought I could get him some nicer ones for Xmas. Thanks!

    6. Linoto, although skip it if they’re not in stock—the lead time can be very long

  8. Has anyone here taken a leave of absence for mental health? How did you approach work about it? Did you need a note or something? How long did you take, and how did you know how long you would need?

    1. I had horrific anxiety-insomnia last winter (like not sleeping for multiple days in a row) and took a two week leave of absence from work. I just told my boss and colleagues that I had a health issue and needed time off. I used paid sick leave, and my company also makes you use FMLA leave concurrently. I assume the doctor went into more specifics in her FMLA paperwork but that went straight to HR and isn’t shared with anyone . At my company you need a note if you’re using paid sick leave for more than 5 straight workdays so it was mandatory, but I probably would have done it anyway – I think people take sick leave more seriously if they know you’ve provided a doctor’s note to HR even if they haven’t seen the note.

    2. Yes. I do. I don’t have time to write more now, but check back later and I will have. For now, massive hugs and love to you. And congratulations for moving forward with taking care of yourself.

      1. I took 3 months of leave to deal with job-induced depression. I was in the wrong job for my personality, and I found myself crying in my office and at home, drinking too much at night when I got home, failing to engage in any other aspect of life. I literally decided on a Wednesday that I could not continue doing what I was doing and I talked to HR the following day and went on leave immediately. I told people in my office who needed to know that I would be out that a family member had a significant medical issue and could not care for herself, so I was going to do it (and I think that statement was true—I was the family member).
        I took the full three months provided by FMLA. It just so happened that I also got my new job on about Week 10 or 11 of leave, so the timing worked out really well.
        I was required to provide a letter from a doctor stating I needed the medical leave; there may have been some forms for the doctor to fill out as well, but I don’t remember. I started seeing a psychiatrist so that the doctor could complete the forms.
        I took probably four weeks to simply decompress and try to normalize. I then used the remaining eight weeks to find another job. I went back to my old job long enough to give my two weeks notice and then leave.
        Taking this leave was absolutely the best career decision I ever made. I was not functioning and I don’t think I would have been able to even job search if I had not taken leave and not taking leave would have also been bad for my professional reputation. I also have been in a job I love ever since and have not had any additional depression concerns.
        If you’re at the stage when you’re starting to consider taking leave for mental health, you probably need it. In fact, you’re probably overdue for it. Please do what you need to do to care for your mental health; it’s really important.

    3. The key is that you don’t need to disclose your medical condition to work. Assuming you have a doctors note, and that you have medical leave days in the bank, just tell them that you have been advised by your doctor not to return to work until X date.

      1. This is such bad advice and totally wrong. The level of required disclosure will depend on what benefits OP is trying to access. Vacation, no need. FMLA or disability leave to get paid both require proving information.

        1. I think she may mean that you don’t necessarily disclose your medical condition to your boss or coworkers. When I go on leave I’ll provide forms to Sedgwick or wherever and tell my boss that I’m out for medical leave. My boss will not see my doctor’s forms and the third party will clear me for FMLA usage.

        2. No, it’s good advice. FMLA paperwork goes directly to HR or the third party company that your company has contracted to manage this. Your boss and coworkers don’t need to know anything more than that you have a health issue and when you expect to be back.

  9. DH has requested a “blue or red cashmere scarf” and “nice leather gloves.” No actual budget I suppose, but could spend up to $200 on each if it made sense, perhaps more? I don’t want to go crazy here but looking for some ideas for nice items for him. Anyone want to do some vicarious shopping?

    2. My husband likes the Ralph Lauren leather gloves. That will give you a better budget for the scarf. There I would not go with some weird off brand cashmere, but instead look at Pure Cashmere online.

    3. I recently bought a red cashmere hat from Fisher’s Finery – it hasn’t arrived yet but the black friday price was compelling.

    5. Fratelli orsini touchscreen compatible leather gloves. Made in Italy. Cashmere lined and in your budget.

    6. Be sure you know your husband’s glove size. I’ve usually had cashmere-lined suede, which are the warmest while being the lightest gloves I found.

  10. I’m late to the party, but I ordered a Peloton over the weekend. How do I make the most of it and make sure it doesn’t become an expensive coat rack once the novelty wears off? The consensus among friends seems to be that people who like cycling will stick with it, and those who don’t… don’t. I’ve never been into cycling at all, in fact I’m kind of terrified of an actual bike. I’m more into running, but I haven’t been doing much for months because 1) the weather has been awful – too hot and humid over the summer/fall (is fall even a thing anymore?) and now it’s below freezing in the morning, and 2) my ankles and knees are increasingly protesting. I need some lower impact cardio I can do in my house and the bike seems like the best option. I’m so anxious about giving up. Anyone else feel like all of their sticktoitivness is reserved for work?

    1. If you’re not into cycling why did you order it? Seems like a big investment to make without trying it out first.

    2. Remember there’s the 30 day tryout period, so commit to really considering it three weeks in and see if you’ve found a workout you’ve liked, and return it if not.

      For what it’s worth, I had probably used a stationary bike less than 5 times in my lifetime before I got my Peloton setup last November (I use a cheap Reebok stationary bike and run the classes on my iPad) and I am nearing my 200-class milestone in the year-ish since then. I’m absolutely hooked and I’ve never felt stronger or happier in my body.

    3. I bought my peloton about 7 months ago after about a decade of not exercising. I wouldn’t say I LOVE cycling but its exercise I can tolerate and I’ve gotten good use out of it. Something that helps me is having my bike in a place where I can see my TV- sometimes I am just not in the mood for a class, and prefer to watch TV while I bike instead. I have also found that I get more out of it doing low intensity but longer rides, the HIT type of rides are too much for me. I tell myself to just ride for 10 minutes and then I’m allowed to stop if I want, and almost always I am in the mood to keep riding for another 20-50 min. The hardest part of the workout is getting yourself on the bike.

    4. I don’t have the bike but would love one, though I sound similar to you in terms of preferred workouts. The nice thing about Peloton is that it’s not just spin classes: if you start getting sick of the bike, check out their strength, barre, pilates, yoga classes too! They even have meditation and guided run + walk workouts. If you mix in a few days of that, it will probably keep you engaged even if you find you don’t want to do more than a spin class or two a week. You can get the app on your phone or smart TV so that it is extra versatile!

    5. This is how I felt and it’s been fine. My use ebbs and flows, I’m not a die hard daily user. But it’s a nice option and I enjoy the classes.

    6. Find the FB group HardCore on the Floor or the IG hashtag HCOTF. A wonderful CPT puts together a monthly calendar incorporating all kinds of programming. I learned about it here over a year ago and the group has ballooned. She publishes the next month’s calendar on the FB group on the last day of each month for the subsequent month. Some follow the calendar religiously, others (like me) here and there when I need to do more than just cardio. I know some friends who don’t even own a bike and just follow the calendar with the digital app, which is rooted in non-bike exercises. Enjoy! I love mine.

      2. Another recommendation for HCOTF. I aim to do the stack at least 4 days a week and ride 3 days.

    7. So, I used to be the same as you – I was never into cycling or spin classes and loved running and other types of fitness classes (HITT; dance; etc.). Then due to some serious health issues running was off the table. I needed a low impact exercise and it was the middle of the pandemic.

      I ended up trying my friend’s Peloton and bought one and use it all the time. I absolutely love it. For me the key thing is the music – they license the rights to actually good music. Recommendations I have:

      – Try out a bunch of different instructors first to find the ones that are more your style. Once I found instructors I liked I looked forward to their new classes.
      – Think about the type of music you like to listen to and find classes that are in those genres
      – Find a buddy who has one and take classes with them/compete with them
      – If you like measurable progress, try the Power Zone program
      – There are different types of class formats. I personally don’t like HIIT classes and prefer classes like Sweat Steady where you maintain a relatively consistent pace with increasing/decreasing resistance. So figure out what format you like.

      Good luck!

    8. I’m a 40 year old former runner who was forced to quit because my body couldn’t handle it anymore. And I was devastated. I now use the Peloton for bike and bootcamp workouts, and I absolutely love it. Depending on how much you’re running, get on the bike 2-3x per week and do 1-2 bootcamps per week (do the bootcamps outside if possible because such a great part of running is being outside). With respect to both, try a bunch of instructors. Some I really like and others I cannot stand. The first class I took was from an instructor who my BFF likes a lot and I hated; I’m glad I kept trying new ones to find the ones I like.
      Peloton workouts are hard enough to give you the endorphin rush. And the metrics help you push yourself as your running watch currently does.
      I now wonder if I’d done Peloton type cross training in my 20s and 30s if I’d still be running. It’s great cross training.

    9. Former runner here, who was never into outdoor cycling, until my lumbar discs kindly disagreed. I went to one spin class to see if this might be a decent replacement for running – and it was. I ordered a pro spin bike right after, subscribed to Les Mills app and I am on the bike 3-4x per week. What was key for me was finding a workout that fits your preferences – I tried 3 different programs on Les Mills (I ended up loving The Trip, but not Sprint or RPM), I have also tried some of the GCN Youtube training sessions (love some of those), tried cycling to my own playlist (hate it). I have the inner need to move every day, have HC discipline, plus spinning mysteriously helps my lower back tension.
      If you end up not liking it, just sell it online. I had neighbors asking if they can borrow my bike during our local lengthy lockdowns (sellers were out of home equipment). Before spinning, I tried indoor rowing, bought the machine, ended up not liking it. But spinning gives you similar intensity and high as running. I sold the rowing machine with profit.

    10. I’m very similar to you. I was “afraid” of spin classes and am not into cycling. We got a Peloton about a year ago because I thought my husband, who is very into cycling, would love it and I figured I might nominally use it. Well, I’m now at over 100 cycle classes, over 200 strength classes and have used the bike or app consistently for over 52 weeks straight. This is the most consistent I have been about exercise in my life. Having the bike at home and being able to squeeze in a very quick 20 minute workout even when I don’t feel like I have time has been a game changer. Also, not having to go outside during the long, cold winter months has been really helpful. Here are some things that have kept me committed (which some of the other commenters have also mentioned):
      – try different instructors until you find a few that click for you. There are some that grate on me and some that I love.
      – try some of the themed classes or the ones that are music based if music motivates you. I find music highly motivating and usually look at the playlists and pick classes that have songs I enjoy.
      – vary the intensity of the cycle classes. I find the HIIT or Tabata classes to be too much, and I even sometimes get burned out on regular intensity classes. When I get into a rut, I tell myself that I can just ease into a low impact class or a power zone class, and once I get started I hit my groove and am glad I did it. Forcing myself to get started is the hardest part.
      – use the app for strength classes. This is a huge unexpected benefit for me. I didn’t think I’d use the app much, but I’ve probably seen the most change in my fitness and muscle tone from doing the strength classes consistently. I love the variety. I have appleTV in my family room/basement and can just pull up a strength or stretch class on the app and can view it on our big tv. Over time, I’ve bought some heavier weights and a nice mat, and I really love changing up my workouts by alternating strength with the bike. I also like the variety in time commitment- I can do a 10 minute class, or stack several 10, 15 or 20 minute classes to create a full body workout, depending on how much time I have.

      I don’t ever think I’ll go back to a gym membership. I added in outdoor running during the nicer weather months. The only thing I am missing is Pilates. I have found the Pilates classes on the app to be meh, and I’d like to go back to some classes with the reformer, so that may be the only reason I set foot in a gym again down the line.

    11. I’ve had my Peloton for almost a year now and had never taken a spin class before it arrived. I’m about to take my 200th ride and have done over 200 strength classes. Here are some things that helped me get started and then stick with it.
      1. Mastering the Basics program – gives you a schedule of classes to take over several weeks, is curated for beginners, and introduces you to most of the instructors so you can start to see their styles.
      2. Use the sort by easiest function in the filters when you’re starting out. This is especially useful for the low impact rides since some of them are much tougher than you would expect.
      3. Start bookmarking classes you are interested in taking. I’ll scroll through the new classes and bookmark anything with a good playlist so when I’m having decision fatigue I can just filter for class type and length and have several options.
      4. Take Matt Wilpers low impact rides to work on pedal stroke technique. They are low key and very helpful, I’ll hop on a 10 minute one if I’m pressed for time but want to get on the bike.
      5. If gamefication works for you, do the monthly challenges and try to collect ride specific badges. There’s a good list of badges and associated rides on the PeloBuddy website.
      6. Other posters mentioned PowerZone and the Hardcore on the Floor Facebook group. I’m a big fan of both of these.
      7. Try all of the instructors and consider doing a second or third ride with anyone you may not have liked. A couple I ride with regularly were not my favorites at the beginning but I’m happy I gave them another shot.
      8. The non-cycling workouts are great and will keep you in the habit of using the app. I didn’t think I’d like yoga or meditation, but now take both of those regularly. There are a lot of 5-20 minute options so you can try something out without a huge time commitment.
      9. Use the stack feature before your workout to set the classes you want to take so everything is lined up. I’ll frequently stack a ride, arms and light weights strength, a post ride stretch, and a core workout. Since I set everything up before I got on, I’m much more likely to do everything instead of just quitting since I don’t want to search for the next class.

      Best of luck and have fun!

    12. Some people LOVE their pelotons and ride every day but I’d say don’t pressure yourself to ride every day. I like the peloton cycling classes but if I did them every day, I wouldn’t. So I just accept that I’m not going to ride more than a couple of times a week and I mix in other classes to stay excited about it. As others have mentioned, the strength, yoga, outdoor running, etc. classes are all great. Good luck!

  11. Legal eagles, is there such a thing as an estate lawyer with a specialty in medical needs or eldercare? Or do I need two lawyers working together?

    DH and I are finally getting our act together in regards to wills and PoA. It is very likely that he will follow in his family’s footsteps and succumb to early-onset dementia, which ravages the men and leaves the women penniless. We need to structure our estate to provide him with care and keep me from losing everything at the same time.

    1. Yes, you want to find someone who is a member of NAELA and who lists “long term care” as one of their specialties. There are a ton of strategies available if you plan early.

    3. Yes, we did this. We went with an attorney who specializes in elder care, special needs planning, and Medicaid. She also helped us with applying to memory care facilities when the time came for that. I would search for elder care planning/Medicaid attorneys in your city/state or wherever you plan to end up. There’s variation among states so keep geography in mind.

    4. It sounds like you may become the only breadwinner rather early. Can you also get disability insurance to replace part of your income should something happen to you?

    5. If you really have a genetic predisposition in your family for severe dementia (which one?), would strongly suggest your husband get hooked into the local largest/best academic hospital neurology department and look for clinical / monitoring trials. He should consider having genetic testing done, if other family members have been found to carry a specific gene. There is no down side to this unless he wants to apply for life insurance first. I would even consider flying to one of the best universities in the country for a one time eval if you know 100% he has the gene.

      There are lot of discoveries in this field and the landscape may be completely different in 10-20 years. Now is the time to get hooked in, and not simply get resigned. There may be interventions that can be started now that will improve things, even as simply as regular exercise, modest alcohol intake etc… Check in with the experts.

      If his family has not had genetic testing, they should do this. But remember – many times “dementia” is caused by more changeable causes and just because multiple family members have had it, doesn’t mean the causes are the same. Dementia is a “catch all” term. If it is caused by cardiovacscular disease/strokes etc…. that can be prevented in most cases. If it is caused by alcoholism, that can be prevented etc…

      Good luck to you both. It is always great to plan ahead.

  12. I’ll need to buy a new car within the next year and I’d like to start test driving the cars I think I’ll be interested in now. I’ve never bought a car–do I need an appointment to test drive cars? I’ll be buying new. (and yes I know its a terrible time to buy, but my current car is on its last legs and I won’t have much choice).

    1. You don’t need an appointment but it’s kinda weird to start shopping when you don’t need a car. Expect that salespeople who are spending the time to do the test drives are going to try to sell you on a car.

    2. Not unless the car you want to drive isn’t already on the lot. But then again, an appointment might make it less stressful depending on how you feel about car sales people!

      1. These days I would call, just went to renew a lease and there were zero cars on the lot. Test driving expectations probably need to adjust – I was getting a newer version of my car, but there was no way to test drive one if I wanted to. Another similar one, yes, but there’s a major shortage right now.

    3. I just had to buy a new car and it was a terrible experience. I wish I would’ve asked around for someone to connect me with a salesperson they trust. My experience would’ve been much better if the salesperson actually gave a sh!t. Fwiw I think it’s an awesome time to buy if you don’t need a car right this second. It might take a couple of months, but you can order one of the new models that you’ll be really happy with. Good luck!

    4. Definitely make an appointment. And you’re right to start thinking about it early because it could take months to get the car you want if it’s back ordered.

      In case you are looking for a hybrid sedan, I love my 2021 Honda Accord. I ended up with not my first choice color options, but I didn’t want to wait and the other options were what I wanted.

    5. If you want to test drive a bunch of cars, it might make sense to make an appointment at a Carmax lot. You can test drive several different makes/models to see what you like without committing to buy anything.

      1. +1

        This is what we did. It was so helpful, and saved having to visit a bunch of dealers.

        And since there’s no bargaining on price there, it is a very low stress experience. And who knows…. maybe you will even find a bargain and find a care you like. This is how we decided on the car we wanted, then we searched online for the best local deal for the car make/model we wanted, then made a visit to the dealer that had the car we wanted and negotiated our trade in value.

  13. I recently got my first Garmin for mountain biking, but I’m finding the instructions and packaging fairly hard to figure out and not very user-friendly. I figured I might ask if anyone has a good blog or guide that might be more helpful – I’d love if there is some hardcore cyclist blogger out there with step-by-step instructions for maximizing the device for MTB. Does this exist?!

    1. Ooof good luck with that. I’ve never had a Garmin that played nicely with trees/heavily wooded areas and you’re right – the cycling computers, especially the higher end ones are just a pain in the a**. I think you’re going to have the best luck talking to people you ride with who have the same make/model.
      I’m seriously looking at going back to Polar or another less fancy brand (VDO) because Garmin loads theirs up with crap I don’t need and I don’t want to wade through it all to get to what I want.

    3. Sadly, my advice would be to return it if you still can and get a Wahoo. I find setting up Garmin devices to be a nightmare and Wahoo setup is so, so easy.

  14. Y’all posted the recipe for a “Ginger Marscarpone Icebox Cake” a week+ ago and thank you!

    I made it 3 times for various thanksgiving thangs over the past week and it was a hit every time.

    1. Oh that was me! So glad it was a hit – it really is so delicious and easy to make. Now I’m wondering why I haven’t made it for a while! :)

  15. I hope those of you with long weekends enjoyed them! Any recipe successes or disappointments to share?

    I made the double chocolate biscotti from Anja Dunk’s gorgeous new book ‘advent’ and can highly recommend them – super easy and delicious.

    1. All I can say is that the Bon Appetit November 2018 “cover” turkey looks as good as the magazine photo every single time I have made it. It is also juicy and needs no added seasoning. I am not a turkey lover, but this preparation rocks!

    2. I did the Apple Orchard Muffins from Alexandra’s Kitchen with apples and pears leftover from Thanksgiving fruit salad. So good!

    3. We did a turkey breast in the crockpot and I will never go back to the oven, at least for Thanksgiving. Tender juicy meat, almost no tending, and complete flexibility on serving time or holding the meal. Plus, the oven was freed up for crisping the stuffing and rolls.

      The original goal was to accommodate my new super-low-fat lifestyle change, but the convenience put it over the top as a success.

    5. We are nearing the end of a big house project, so we were occupied with getting the house in order and didn’t have time or space to cook. So we ordered Thanksgiving dinner from our favorite restaurant and it was delicious! I made mac n cheese and Hubby made dinner rolls, and guests brought pie, and it was divine!

      I always make turkey pie out of the leftover turkey, gravy, stuffing, and mashed potatoes, and this year I made individual pies wrapped in filo dough, a la this technique https://everylittlecrumb.com/ouzi-filo-wrapped-rice/ . It was DIVINE and I am never going back to one big pie.

      Oh, and I made homemade jellied cranberry sauce, and we did a side-by-side taste test with Ocean Spray, and Hubby picked the Ocean Spray!! Hilarious. Turns out you can’t compete with childhood taste memories, so I am officially out of the homemade cranberry sauce business!

      1. I’ve given up on making cranberry sauce. No one likes it. This year husband did the honors of opening the can of Ocean Spray and carefully sliding it intact out of the can. He claimed that as the dish he “made” for Thanksgiving.

        1. Turns out my husband’s favorite Thanksgiving food is Ocean Spray cranberry sauce in the can. The jell kind. With the ridges from the can.

          Go figure, man.

    6. Hosted my first ever Thanksgiving by myself…for 12 people! Huge success and feeling really proud today!!
      The bread rolls I was going to make were an epic failure as the dough didnt rise in time. But the highlight was actually the gluten free cornbread I made. I had 2 friends who are GF so I made a standard bread stuffing and a GF cornbread one, and the GF was the winner for sure! In case anyone needs a GF recipe for the future: https://glutenfreeonashoestring.com/gluten-free-cornbread-stuffing/
      Also, everything I’ve ever made from Sally’s Baking Addiction has been delicious. Her Thanksgiving pie recipes didn’t disappoint.

      1. Sallys Baking Addiction is great! I can recommend her cookies made with Biscoff spread

        1. I’ve never made them, but I love the idea of cookies made with Biscoff spread, like some sort of wild cookie-ception!

  16. I used to think that motorcycle riders were uninsurable. Is that still true? Spouse want to take it up. I think it’s a horrible idea (like I won’t ride my bike in our city due to to many drivers multitasking). And if there are good underwriters’ stats re risk of death and risk of permanent disability (which is more what I’m worried about — I think he has disability coverage through work but has never had any gap coverage and certainly wouldn’t qualify for it now that he has a learner’s permit and a helmet (but still no bike of his own yet). I don’t care how careful you are — IMO, if you get hit by a car on a bicycle or motorcycle, best case is you die instantly and there are plenty of ways it can get worse from there. It’s the other guy’s lack of care that you can’t control and the downside risk is always on the person not in the car / truck / whatever.

    1. Wut? Of course you can get motorcycle insurance. Every major auto insurance carrier offers it.

      I

        1. Ahhhhh gotcha. Thanks!

          To that point, I have plenty of friends who have kids and life insurance who are not wealthy and make it work, so this seems like a discussion about risk vs reward with spouse not insurance.

    2. My DH has had a bike since before I met him; it’s his baby girl, he’s never getting rid of that thing. It makes me feel a little bit better hat he’s required by his job (military) to do a refresher safety class every couple of years. It’s almost 100% about defensive driving. Maybe your DH would commit to something like that?

      And I mean yes obviously motorcycle riders have insurance, I’m not sure who told you they were uninsurable. It’s just more expensive.

    3. I commented above that I very much believe in spouses having their own lives, however, I would vehemently object to mine taking up motorcycles.

      1. My relatives who work in various branches of emergency healthcare (ER RNs + EMTs) call them Donorcycles.

    4. Look at your uninsured/underinsured motorist coverage on your current auto policy. This is where things often go sideways for cyclists. Knock wood my only run-in with a car was minor (Really folks, don’t drive in the bike lane! There might be a cyclist there!) but it still hurt and had me gimping around for several days. If I’d been badly injured, past the limits of the driver who hit me, my uninsured/underinsured coverage would then kick in. The default limits on most policies are absurdly low and it doesn’t cost much to increase them.

      I’m not a motorcyclist, so can’t speak to things like liability insurance for him on a motorcycle, but that doesn’t sound like what you’re mainly concerned about. He’s doing the right things by wearing a helmet and taking a course. Safe handling is a huge deal and one can’t practice fundamental skills too much. That’s a lot of why I ride my bike for transportation (beyond the obvious environmental and cost saving reasons) – it makes me a much better bike handler in group rides/workout/fun type situations.

      Don’t count on law enforcement doing anything to hold a motorist accountable or write a report in such a way that it accurately reflects what happened.

      1. +1 on uninsured coverage at the highest possible limit, and I’d also get an umbrella with the highest limits you can (both probably cost a lot less than life insurance, which you should have too if he’s insistent on motorcycling)

        1. +1

          Definitely get the highest possible underinsured limit on this. He will be hit/killed by a reckless driver most likely, and they often are underinsured or not insured. And he will have an accident, as most riders to eventually.

          My father was a motorcycle rider in his youth, until he was seriously injured and almost killed. He knows several ex-motorcycle riders who are paralyzed now. Yes, there are many things worse then death, and that can plunge you into financial ruin.

          Get as much insurance as possible. Also agree with the Umbrella. Unfortunately, you can’t stack most policies, but ask about this.

          I would absolutely put my foot down with my spouse about riding motorcycles, and would not have children with a spouse who rides.

    5. Are you talking about life insurance?
      I wholeheartedly agree this is a terrible idea. Not only are car drivers dangerous to motorcycle drivers, motorcycle drivers are threats to themselves and others, as well. I have never met a motorcycle rider who hasn’t wrecked his bike. And they are toys with features that beg the user to use them irresponsibly.

    6. My cousin was killed on his bike by an unlicensed driver (who was judgment-proof) driving someone else’s car that had the state-minimum 50K liability policy. Luckily, my cousin died at the scene, probably instantly. Had he lingered in the hospital and made it home eventually, the funds available probably would have been exhausted on day 1, never mind any physical rehab or modifications needed to his house (ramp, special car for wheelchair). He was single but had a dog that he’d have had to give up and would have had no real way to get to medical appointments considering his non-fatal injuries. I don’t think you can have enough non-death insurance (disability insurance, health insurance, etc.) because the person who hits you never thinks of things like this and if you get hit by a Maybach, it’s probably stolen or something else where it is your $ that will see you through it, not the harm-do-er’s.

          1. For killing someone?

            OTOH, had the person lived, they’d likely be bankrupted by unpayable medical bills, but you can’t send the driver to jail for that.

          3. Because the driver was almost certainly negligent in some way. The US has a terrible blind spot where motorists are concerned. If you want to get away with murder in the US, kill someone with your car, sober, and stay at the scene to “cooperate with authorities”.

          4. Unlicensed driver drives a car and kills someone . . . I think there is probably a crime in there somewhere. Or the sort of motor-vehicle code violation that carries jail time.

        2. People kill others all the time in routine car accidents and do not go to jail. Signed, former insurance defense attorney

          1. my brother died from an 83 year old who shouldn’t ha e been driving and she didnt lose a license get fined etc and was still able to drive.

            we used to be race car drivers so if anyone could have managed to get out of it, he could have. he was wearing the best gear including helmet.

            he suffered at the scene.. .

    8. My husband had a project motorcycle when we met, and I even rode on the back a few times. But once we decidedto have kids, it was a hard no for me. I’m an actuary. I know the statistics. I wasn’t having kids with that level of risk to one of their parents. So husband had to give up the motorcycle as part of the deal.

  17. Does anyone have a trainer they put their bike on? Can it be used on just any bike? I was thinking this might be nice for what looks to be a miserable winter…both in terms of weather and Covid, but I’ve got a Dutch bike?

    1. I have a Wahoo Kickr Snap which I put my gravel bike with 38mm tires on. I had to google what a Dutch bike is, but I don’t see why you can’t use it on a trainer (caveat – not a pro!!). I’d highly recommend getting a slick trainer tire for the rear though. It will make the ride more comfortable and reduce uneven wear on your regular tires.

    2. It is possible but I would get a cheap stationary bike instead as the footprint is much smaller and means you don’t have to bring your dirty bike inside (or faff around with changing the rear wheel to use it outside). I bought the cheapest John Lewis one and it’s been great (the monitor is currently awaiting replacement but it is covered under warranty)

      1. Buying an entirely new bike-sized piece of equipment you then have to store all year does not sound better than buying a trainer. All my hardcore triathlete friends use trainers all winter long, if a stationary bike were better I’m sure they’d be doing that.

        2. My stationary bike is way smaller than an actual bike. Primarily, it’s about half the length, so significantly easier to fit into a corner of a room.
          Just a suggestion for a different solution, not necessarily a better solution. The triathletes I know with trainers aren’t generally taking the bike on and off to use it to go to the shops etc, but rather leaving a bike on the trainer all winter.

        3. Yeah, but this person has a Dutch style bike. That’s not going to be amazing to use with a trainer. Plus most people with bikes like that use them for errands and stuff on nice days (in my city, anyways), and likely aren’t the most bike-knowledgeable people for taking a rear wheel on and off.
          Sorry OP if I’m wrong about your bike mechanics experience – I just think the type of bike you have and the fact it’s your only one indicates that you’re not a big bike nut.

          2. Yeah, I’m a functional cyclist – I ride most days but not as sport. I do my shopping, go to lunch, go to the train station, pick up my kid.

      2. I bought a stationary bike because I still ride my real bike all winter long. I love outdoor workouts, so I bundle up and still do my weekly long ride outside as long as it’s above 25 (Below 25 I am indoor only!! ) And I didn’t want to have to deal with the hassle of taking a bike on and off a trainer every few days.

      3. Nah, the trainer is a good and relatively inexpensive investment if you’re a seasonal cyclist. I don’t ride much in the winter, so it’s NBD to have my regular bike on a trainer and then dismantle the whole deal when it thaws out in the spring.

    3. I am assuming you are looking at wheel-on trainers, not direct train trainers (i.e. you’re attaching your bike as a whole through the axel to a roller that exerts pressure and you ride). If that’s the case, all you need to do is confirm (a) weight limits and (b) wheel size (note, not tire size). Some trainers will only work for 700c wheels (road bikes) or 26″ wheels (mountain bikes) and if you’re on a European style Dutch bike it might be a 28″ wheel or something weird. I mention weight because sometimes the Dutch bikes are super heavy, and there are weight limits to the trainers. But it’s very doable; just call your local bike store and ask.

      Magnetic trainers: louder, cheaper, will get the job done but often don’t have the resistance a professional / serious hobby cyclist needs. Likely sufficient for what you’re doing. Sucks if you have roommates.

      Fluid trainers: quiet, smoother ride, lots of resistance capacity, generally more expensive. Technically possible to have leaks so check that if you’re buying used.

      Either way, get a trainer-specific tire to go with it because the trainer will rip your road tire to shreds and spray little bits of rubber all up your wall (guess how I know). If you’re really into this in the spring, get a second wheel so that you can swap it out without needing to change the tire each time.

      Don’t get a set of rollers (where you balance and ride on them as they spin) it will be miserable on a Dutch bike.

    4. You absolutely can set it up on a trainer. If you have a bit of money to spend, it might be worth it for you to buy a cheap rear wheel, trainer tire and cassette with harder gears to use on the trainer.

    5. Thanks everyone! I think folks are right that as someone who cycles most days but just to the shops/doctor/school run etc I’d find it really annoying to take it on and off and wheel my bike through the house. I don’t know if I’d love a stationary bike…but perhaps worth trying.

  18. Ski families: I am on the hunt for GOOD ski gloves or mittens for my 9 year old. She caught the ski bug bad last year and her cheap snow gloves from target don’t keep her hands warm enough on the slopes. I have amazing thick leather mittens that I ski in, with batteries, because I am a cold blooded lizard. I fear she has my genes.

    I’m ideally looking for something better than the cheap ones but not $100 because she will outgrow them quickly. We’ve tried hand warmers and they really are just a band-aid (as they are for me).

    2. Check out the reviews at Outside Magazine or Switchback Travel or Outdoor Gear Lab. Those are the sources I generally find useful. The blog The Big Outside also has decent gear reviews and I think there was a post about gloves recently.

    3. I would check nordic sellers like Reima, Polarn, Didriksons, etc. My kid has some nice Reima gloves that definitely weren’t $100.

    5. Looks like Backcountry has some Hestra kids gloves on sale today. That would be my choice 100% as a fellow cold-blooded skier.

    6. I swear by my Kombi mittens. My hands stayed tiny, so my kids ones lasted me a long time, and then I bought adult ones that lasted probably another decade or so. Also, mittens are always going to be warmer than gloves.

      1. +1 to mittens – I learned this from Swedes living north of the Arctic Circle. One space for four fingers will warm up faster than one space per finger.

    7. Someone recommended Kinco leather gloves (our hills use tow ropes). I ordered them but they have not arrived.

  19. Would love some gift ideas for my mother in law. mid 70s, has very specific taste in most things, southerner, has been retired for nearly 20 years. Lives with FIL (80s), doesn’t travel much but would like to (gifting this is not an option right now; she doesn’t travel because her mother is still alive and very ill). We often do consumables but this is pretty impersonal. Likes gardening, but we’ve done gardening type gifts for years now.

    She’s the kind of person that will keep but never use stuff she doesn’t like, because that’s what is polite. Like, DH gave her a spice rack in college (20+ years ago) and it still sits, with its original spices, on her counter. She dusts it regularly. her spices are still in the pantry.

    2. I always struggle to buy for my mom, best of luck to you. Things she has actually enjoyed:
      – Pretty mugs from my trips or with some sentimental story
      – Pictures
      – Fancy English muffins and scones
      – flavored olive oil
      – flavored coffee
      Things I thought she would like but were a bust:
      – fancy spice mixes from Penzey’s
      – chocolates
      – flowers
      – pretty tea towels
      – pretty coasters
      – that barefoot dreams cardigan that we’re always talking about

    5. What about theater tickets? We gave my southern in-laws season tickets to their local theater company, which was probably our most successful gift in recent years.

    7. Wow to your spice rack story! Does she like jewelry? Maybe a nice pair of elegant stud earrings? If she doesn’t like them, at least they won’t sit on her counter for decades?

    8. Some ideas from my own family experiences: membership to a nearby botanical garden, one of the Humans of NY books, a monogrammed ipad case, bluetooth speakers (maybe one that is good outside) or headphones, a small lemon tree, clothing from their alma mater

    10. I don’t have a suggestion but I love that she keeps the spice rack on the counter and dusts it regularly.

      1. OP here. Another example is we got them some gimmicky pasta as part of a gift basket- I think it was something like alma-mater branded pasta shapes? Anyway, that was at least a decade ago and it’s still in their pantry. If it doesn’t look appealing, THROW IT AWAY!!!

    11. My grandmother and then my mom had so much crap when they passed away, and it was largely gifts they were too polite to get rid of. My grandmother lived to be 96 and had 4 children + 14 grandchildren who gifted her regularly for her birthday, Mother’s Day, and Christmas.

      So I’d say something consumable is the way to go if she would be able to deal with that.

      Funny story (I think) about my mom’s and Grandma’s stuff. My young adult daughter is a very sentimental type. She treasures a sterling silver necklace she selected when my mom died and we were divvying up her stuff. I know my sister got that for Mom at a craft fair as recently as 2005, I don’t recall my mom ever wearing it, but to my daughter it’s a family heirloom. They have to start somewhere!

    12. I’m 63 and I was thinking last night that honestly, I don’t want anything. I want people to think of me and remember me, but honestly I don’t want any more stuff that I have to find a place for in my house. And if I wanted anything, I’d have already bought it for myself. I would much rather you give me a consumable that you know I like, than (for example) a spice rack that I’d “have to” dust for the rest of my life.

      Many years ago I started a tradition of sending my parents a big, extravagant Christmas flower arrangement on my mom’s late-December birthday, and I still do it for my dad even though my mom passed away a couple of years ago. That’s worked out well for all of us. Maybe consider starting a tradition like that?

      1. Also this year I am getting my dad one of those land line telephones with HUGE numbers, and HUGE buttons, that rings VERY VERY LOUDLY and flashes a VERY VERY BRIGHT light when it rings. Hopefully it will be able to get his attention when I call him…

  20. If there are some Herman Miller Sayl chairs on sale on FB Marketplace for $125 should I hop on that? They’re green and white, which could work. I’m thinking of getting a few…

      1. We have a lot of very old very cheap chairs and both work from home and my kids are getting bigger. also green is my brother’s favorite color so it might be a gift.

        1. If you have a place to put them and will use them right now, then sure, buy the number you need. If not, don’t waste your time and money just because it’s a “deal.”

  21. For Christmas, my DH has expressed an interest in fancy cocktail making. Any advice on a starter kit I can give him? I’m thinking shaker, nice bitters and maybe a recipe book? Bonus if it also has mocktail ideas because I’m TTC.

        1. They do not look good, that’s for sure. I was tempted to buy one and then realized I could make the same thing better and for less money buy buying individual things myself.

      1. Thanks for the toasted suggestion, looks great…just purchased set for DH.

    3. My DH and I absolutely love Cocktail Codex. It breaks the vast majority of cocktails into 6 families, and shows how almost every cocktail is really just a twist on a base recipe. It really makes the whole thing less intimidating.

      For basic tools, I highly recommend Cocktail Kingdom. Pricy, but they’re a nice weight and very pretty. I’d say away from large sets–you really just need a shaker, strainer, jigger, and bar spoon. The stepped jigger is amazing.

      Bitters are a fun way to play with cocktails, especially if you want your favorite but a little bit different. They add complexity for beginners, though.

      I would start with a really good vermouth, like Carpano Antica and Carpano Bianco. PSA–vermouth is a wine product and should be stored in the refrigerator after opening and used within a month or two of opening.

      1. +1 to both Cocktail Codex and Cocktail Kingdom. My husband is super into cocktail making and also likes the books from Death & Co. The majority of his barware is from Cocktail Kingdom and it’s held up well over the years. If you’re using citrus, get a good quality hand-press and use fresh juices. Also, Luxardo marschino cherries are the best!

    4. Check out Shaker and Spoon. They have a subscription box but also sell items individually.

      1. +1 to Shaker and Spoon. And for mocktails, whenever I’m cutting back I love just adding a few drops of bitters to my La Croix or Bubly (and sometimes even pouring into a nice cocktail glass so it feels like a treat after a long day).

  22. Anyone here use the Future App? It’s a personal trainer thing I heard about on Wirecutter and I am thinking about trying it out

  23. Curious how other long-time married people handle Christmas gifts with their spouse. DH said last night, “I don’t have a clutch gift idea like I did last year!” I gave him ideas like 3 weeks ago for some athletic gear I wouldn’t normally purchase for myself. Any of those would be FINE, but he says they’re not special enough. (Uh, according to whom?) This came on the heels of me providing MIL with 5 gift ideas for him, her asking for more ideas, and him sending three ideas to both of us to “split up.” MIL strongly hinted that she wanted to buy them all, which … wtf? How many gifts are you buying him, anyway?! But go ahead, I guess.

    We’re not hurting for anything. Anytime I’ve tried going “off the list” for him, it has not been a success. Last year, for example, I got him a Patagonia better sweater, which is nicer than what he’d buy for himself. It was too big and instead of exchanging it, he returned it. And it honestly hurt my feelings because I was trying to give him a “fancier” version of a style he likes already. Thought it was a great idea for working from home in a chilly office, blah blah blah.

    This dynamic is exhausting and stupid. I sort of snapped at him last night, “Why don’t we just not do this, or change it up entirely.” I think he was surprised. But really, we’re apparently terrible gift-givers when it comes to each other. So can we not? Or find a better way? That better way, btw, will be on me to figure it out. I have some long-simmering resentment about being the Chief Merrymaker in our house. I’ve already bought gifts for our parents, our kids, and our nieces and nephews. Do I really have to figure out my gift, too?

    1. Often we each buy a thing for ourselves and open our respective things in front of the kids. That way we’re each sure to get something we like. (Also, if he doesn’t like this idea, he can just not buy himself a gift.)

    2. You do not. You’ve given him ideas and don’t need to give him any more. If he wants to do something more “special,” that’s up to him.

    3. We have a similar issue. My husband wants to wow me with the perfect gift but is terrible at coming up with gift ideas on his own and doesn’t like it when I give him a list. I would suggest that he ask one of his siblings or parents for help shopping, but they are all terrible gift-givers too. The best solution has been to ask him to go shopping together for one enormous gift that I really really want and that we both can enjoy. Since it’s more of a joint gift that we are both involved in picking out, he doesn’t have the same resentment about not thinking of it on his own that he does when I just give him a wish list of ordinary gifts. In recent years we have gotten a piece of furniture, bikes, a new TV and sound system, and an espresso machine.

    4. Your post wasn’t clear – can you ONLY buy what the other person says you can buy? Like you’ve given him ideas, he doesn’t think they’re special, ok that’s fine – he can go get you a piece of jewelry or sentimental gift, no? Can’t you just tell him – these are my 5 ideas of what I need/want but you are more than welcome to get something not on that list hint a sentimental gift? I mean surely a man wouldn’t expect a woman to pick out her own necklace?!

      1. Of course, this would be fine! But if DH doesn’t have something he didn’t think of himself, he gets all weird about it.

    5. I give my husband a list including links, otherwise I get something awful and I get my feelings hurt on Christmas day. (I know I could be more mature about this but it is what it is)

      My husband usually gives me a shorter list and I buy what’s on there, but all year I’m looking for things he would like and I save them for his birthday or Christmas, whichever is closer. Right now I have the new Paul McCartney lyrics book hidden away.

    6. We mutually decide on gifts that benefit both of us and leave the surprises to the stocking stuffer price range. (Think – taking an extra trip, buying something “big” for the house, etc.)

      1. i like this approach, though honestly to me that is not really a gift. i get that it feels like one since it isn’t part of every day life, but really it is just part of your annual budget

        1. OP here. This approach worked well when we were setting up our house. But we’ve now been here 10 years, and truly, the need for “big” house items has waned.

        2. Ymmv but it’s always super sad to me when my couple friends tell me they got a new fridge for Christmas. Household appliances are not gifts, they are necessities/home improvements. Surely you can give each other SOMETHING? Like do you not know your spouse at all?

          1. For us- we are a “one pot” couple with plenty of money, so if DH surprised me with a $$$$ necklace or whatever… it’s not like it’s but half my own money buying it and maybe I’d rather spend that amount on a trip, or an upgrade to furnishings that we don’t technically need, etc.

            Maybe we have an economists view of gift giving though!

      2. This is what we do – this year, we got armchairs for the living room, and will get advent calendars and stockings as “surprises.”

    7. I completely relate. I put a lot of thought and effort into gifts for our families and my husband acts like I’m so impossible to shop for because that’s the only thing he needs to take care of. It’s annoying, but it sounds like you may have to be more specific–and I don’t think that means telling him exactly what you want. This year as the “suggestion” I told him a few shows I would be interested in and told him if he wanted to go that route, he could get tickets and line up an appropriate family member babysitter for our kids. This is also because I am usually the planner, so the “gift” here is really him doing that legwork. Is there something like that you can offload as a “gift” that would make you happier? Like, the athletic gear you want + dedicated time for the activity? Unfortunately, the only solution I see is moderating expectations and providing appropriate information. But I feel your frustration–it shouldn’t have to be another chore for you.

    8. I’m trying to convince DH to shift to experiences rather than buying stuff. He tends toward “funny” gifts – not necessarily gag gifts but silly stuff – and I’m a little over it. He usually gets one romantic gift but it stresses him out. And for me, he wants stuff that I know nothing about, like gaming or grill accessories, so I have to get him to send me a link for what specifically he wants or else I’m going to get the wrong thing. It feels kind of transactional. And then I feel like I should get him something as a surprise and I stress about it. My best gift to him was a whiskey subscription, but now he calls it “our” subscription. Grumble.

    9. My husband and I have decided to pick our own gifts during the little kid years. We plan on regrouping when the kids are older and we (hopefully) have more bandwidth.

    10. We decided to start “funds” where we record the amount we would have spent on a gift and it can be spent any time on something we really want and wouldn’t buy (for example, my fund is currently building up for a Cartier watch).

    11. We both have semi-professional hobbies that the other doesn’t understand (musician and photographer) so often we do a “buy yourself something to unwrap” thing. We just do not have time to learn the minutiae of each other’s interests. I once spend a week trying to research a particular vintage guitar pedal he was obsessed with, and I wanted to claw my eyes out.

    12. My husband and I either buy exactly what the other person tells us they want, or we agree on a joint gift. We surprise each other with stocking stuffers. Gifts are not my love language. They are my husband’s, to some extent, but what makes him feel loved is receiving something small, like his favorite snack from the grocery store, “just because.” When it comes to spending substantial amounts of money, he wants what he wants.

      I also have resentment about being Chief Merrymaker. Besides purchasing most of the gifts we give extended family, I’ve wrapped and decorated and organized family photos. I usually spend December acting as the family cruise director, and I told DH I’m not doing it this year.

    13. DH and I are strictly no-gift and I love it. We have never once had an argument over gift-giving. We both just buy ourselves the things we want.

    14. Married 12 years, together for 17+, 3 kids. We are hot and cold on gift giving. Some years, I have great ideas and some years I am so burnt out from merrymaking and sending ideas to extended family that he gets a handful of stocking stuffers, the kids pick out “special daddy beers” (eg they pick ones with fun logos) and a new shirt. Some years he knocks it out of the park with truly special stuff, and some years he and the kids walk through home goods and I get a bunch of medium useful kitchenware.
      We can afford what we want/need. I try and keep a running list of “nice to have” items all year round that is shared with him.
      I think the best gift we can give each other is slack on years when it’s not easy.

      1. I love this. And yes, this is us too.
        But also – after 15 years of marriage, he finally started choosing all gifts for his extended family a few years ago and I love it.

  24. Can only admit this anonymously online but my arms are like aching for a hug!? As a long term single and with few friends I’m used to having minimal physical contact anyway. Yet I still cherish the handful of hugs I get/give every year – female friends; old coworkers who are friends; family friends etc. This is a 100% platonic thing. Yet I have hardly seen anyone since Dec 2019 and in the times that I have, we were maintaining respectful distance. Saw my parents for the holiday but 100% did NOT go in for a hug or even want to, as they show zero physical affection to each other let alone to anyone else; a part of my family half way across the country gathered for the holiday and a bunch of the cousins aged 14-21 sent around pics with arms around each others’ shoulders. My parents went on and on (and on) about how inappropriate that was and those parents need to talk to their kids — so yeah you can see what my family is like. Had a drs. appointment last week with a dr. I’ve known for 20+ years since I was in college and am very chatty with – 100% considered shaking the man’s hand to wish him a happy thanksgiving and going in for a bro hug! I didn’t because I didn’t want to be inappropriate but now I’m like we were both masked and he wouldn’t have minded! Feeling like a huge loser today to be THIS alone.

    1. This is a very real thing that I’ve read about. It’s natural to crave touch. How about going to get a massage? How about volunteering at an animal shelter?

      1. +1 that this is very real – I had a work assignment once where for various reasons I didn’t hug or even shake hands with anyone for several months. Towards the end, a housecleaner I had hired randomly gave me a hug and I almost started crying. Second the suggestion of getting a massage and if a female friend of mine said “can I have a hug?” (or even if they were like “can we please hang out? I want to give you a hug!”) the next time I saw them I would be delighted to oblige.

      2. You can definitely ask a female friend for a hug! It’s not a big deal at all. I’ve had friends ask for a hug for various reasons, just when they’re having a tough time or something.
        I also think a massage would be a good idea. Being touch-starved is definitely a thing.

    2. So sorry to hear it, I am a huggy person also and need that comforting physical touch. It’s not the same, but could you get a massage? Or a haircut where they wash your hair? That might help with feeling touch-starved.

      1. Also – your parents thought the cousins should not have had their arms around each other? What even – ?

        1. There are families like this in certain cultures, mine included; often very religiously conservative cultures. Parents don’t hug their kids after early childhood and even contact with cousins etc. is frowned upon though even then most would be ok with girl cousins hugging or arms around each other, just not girl/boy. But it’s one of those – you’re past age 5, why do you need a hug!? Like in my family I’ve NEVER seen grandparents or any aunt/uncle hug, kiss, or hold hands with their spouse. I think gardening it done obligatorily when babies are made and then after that it’s a roommate relationship – which shows in how they even speak to each other; they just don’t have that intimacy that partners have.

        2. Yeah that’s disturbing, if you dig in to what they must be implying. OP’s parents are telling on themselves.

    3. Can you get a pet? That was seriously life changing for me, to have a warm, living thing to curl up and cuddle with.

    4. Yes – this is a thing. When we were early in the pandemic and I coulnd’t see my significant other he sent me a large teddy bear. It sounds corny but having that thing to hold was so comforting. Also try hugging yourself. Not as good as another person touching you but still helpful. I think there are lots of people who feel like you including me when I’m apart from my loved ones!

    5. This is a very real thing. I felt like this once after going several months without physical contact.

    6. Oh honey, I feel you so much! I’m lucky to come from a touchy feely family and got a dose of touch over thanksgiving, but as a long term single who’s usually far from family and gets this way sometimes, it is HARD. And boneachingly lonely. You’re not a loser and your body/mind are telling you need this.

      I’d meet up with your closest local female friend, and ask for a hug. Some other unexpected places where you might get physical touch: 1) religious services of your choosing, 2) a hands on yoga class, 3) a massage.

      Also, internet hugs!

    7. Late commenting but I feel that need as a result of covid and not seeing friends. But I’ve hugged two close girlfriends in the past month – all vaxxed and both outdoors.

      But I agree about the massage or haircut. I have booked my hairstylist for a longer wash for that purpose. Also, what about a pedicure? Most of the places here will give you a long foot/calf massage as part of a price/service “spa” upgrade.

  25. What are people’s favorite kitchen retailers? I have a number of small kitchen items to purchase for Christmas – stocking stuffer type things like timers, thermometers, cookie scoop, etc.- but quality on Amazon has been so hit miss. (And actually I feel the same about Ben Bath and Beyond lately). I know of William Sonoma and Sur la Table, wondering if there are others?
    Happy to order them from a small business too and pay shipping if anyone has suggestions.

    1. If you’re in the Philly area I love Kitchen Kapers. (I only found out it was a local chain from this board, so not sure how far their reach is)

    2. Sur La Table is my favorite. I cook a lot. For gadgets, I will buy just about anything OXO makes and I know you can get that at Target, but shopping at Sur La Table is like a little escape. Everything is so lovely. For the thermometer, go instant read.

    4. Chester P Basil’s kitchen tools — the best wooden spoons/implements ever. They may not carry the things on your list but check out the “potsitter” spoons and the “simple tool” which is the best thing for browning meat and scraping up bits from the bottom of a pan. They go to a number of Christmas markets/craft fairs in the Northeast and have become my go-to wedding gift.

    5. There is a great store in Cincinnati called Artichoke. I no longer live in that region, but I love supporting them and have had good experiences order from them by phone.

      1. I think it’s not uncommon to find small, independent stores like this, that have lots of kitchen items. Even my small town of 30,000 has a great one! OP, you might see if you have one local to you.

    6. I like to shop the kitchen aisles at Cost Plus World Market and Anthropologie. Target carries OXO which is usually decent quality.

    7. Food52 seems to have some interesting things. I don’t know if they have stores or just online. But yeah, Sur La Table is my go-to.

  26. What do folks do to keep the holiday weight gain in check? We love all the baking and chocolate and large meals and parties, but as I get older, I feel like indulging hits me a lot harder than it used to.
    How do you manage to enjoy the holiday food but not feel gross and over stuffed?

    1. I skip most of it and stop eating before I’m full. I don’t miss any of it, especially the feeling of being stuffed.
      I am not skinny, I’m just not gaining weight anymore.

    2. I indulge during the holidays and feel zero guilt. What helps me is 1) keeping up with my normal exercise routine; 2) after a big party or a particularly indulgent day, I’ll often eat lighter the next day and focus on adding lots of fruits and veggies; and 3) make sure to sleep/rest, too! Oh, and alcohol isn’t a huge thing for me in general, but I definitely don’t go all-out in this category. Would rather indulge in treats than drinks.

    3. I don’t focus on weight gain or loss at all, but rather on feeling healthy and not run down by Christmas. For me that looks like really prioritizing healthy meals when I’m just at home, to balance out the festive eating, making very sure I’m drinking enough water, deciding in advance how many drinks I will have at festive occasions, and making sure to get some daily movement.

      Pre Covid I had a year when I had festive plans for 21 consecutive days in December and was a wreck by Christmas so I now also say no to things, because time drinking tea by my own tree is also precious.

    4. Well, no one would do this unless they had to, but our A1Cs went up, so we had to. Now we skip the carbs and use sugar and flour substitutes for all our at-home baking. Turns out we can eat a ridiculous amount of treats without gaining weight or feeling off so long as blood glucose/insulin doesn’t spike. 12:55’s advice used to work when we were younger though. I think eating earlier and taking a walk afterward can help too.

    5. Eat small portions and don’t bake all the treats at the same time. We are spreading out the Christmas treats over the entire month of December so we can have one or two cookies a day instead of a massive platter with six different varieties of cookies + candy + fudge + eggnog on Christmas Eve.

    6. I try to Intermittent Fast during the holidays or otherwise “save up” treat calories/points if I know I’m going to a party that night. Especially if I’ve been out the night before, I try to eat very light or no breakfast because I’m naturally still full.

      At parties, I only eat what I love. No eating chips/dip cause it’s there. I’ll only eat the shrimp c-cktail or crab cakes (because I love seafood) or the deviled eggs or the special hors de oeuvres like spanakopita, or things that only are made once a year like Yorkshire Pudding or stuffing. If it’s bland, blah or boring I try to skip it.

      On days without parties, I follow the No S Diet rules – no snacks, no sweets/sugar, no seconds except on days that start with S (Saturday, Sunday and Special Days).

    7. Being active throughout the season helps, as does only eating things I truly love. I am not going to eat some nasty cookie with M and Ms in it.

    8. Carefully pick breakfasts and lunches for the week. (Oatmeal, salads, nuts or cheese & apple snack at 3pm so I don’t get too hungry. Lots of water!) Attend only one holiday party a week.

  27. May post this in the afternoon if it doesn’t come thru – but for anyone who knows anything about autism – are the routines that autistic kids develop something they grow out of or can they be treated with meds/therapy or is it variable for each child (these are 9 yr old verbal autistic twin boys if it matters)? Also is autism linked to things like anxiety or OCD which leads to routines or is it the autism itself causing routines?

    I don’t really mean the routines of 2 year olds lining up toys a certain way, but I mean more like personal care etc.? 9 year old twin cousins that I spent the holiday with. Super sweet kids and VERY smart. They are speaking more now due to speech therapy but have lots of routines that they MUST do – 1 showers 4 times/day; 1 showers every time after going to the bathroom including just liquids; both will only wear shorts – which actually is true of lots of boys but was a power struggle with their parents one night when the power went out and it was 30 degrees; ordered dinner from their favorite restaurant one night and one would not eat because the beverage he usually gets with that dinner was not available (restaurant was sold out as were all the nearby grocery stores so it seems like that truck didn’t come into the area and no other drink would suffice – think Arizona vs. Snapple type issue).

    I didn’t see any of this as THAT big of a deal – like kids being kids – but one night sitting and talking it became apparent how tired and worried their parents are. The dad was like – right what happens in college when he needs a bathroom break during an exam except can’t take a 2 min break but rather runs back to the dorm to shower and misses half the exam? Or at work will he be the guy who gets fired because his boss can never find him because he’s driving home to shower? And what professional or semi professional job or even skilled trade allows shorts? I didn’t say much as I haven’t even raised kids let alone special needs kids. The mom is worried, as is dad but dad is also hugely frustrated. He’s a guys guy who is/was a dad’s boy himself, once he realized kids #3 and #4 would be BOYS he had HUGE expectations and he doesn’t even hide his disappointment. What would you have said here!? I went with optimism + talk to their drs/therapists.

    1. IDK. I have a kid on the spectrum, but the saying is if you’ve met one person with autism, you’ve met one person with autism. Plus, my kid is a girl, which presents differently (and yet girls have different expectations re social skills, which are terribly unfair for her).

      What I know from reading and talking to doctors / therapists is that if you have one thing, comorbidities are common (so: ASD/ADHD, ASD/anxiety, etc.). There are a lot of things potentially at work. School can be more accommodating than the workplace, and yet with WFH and self-scheduling, some jobs may be more pro-ASD than others (think of things a neurotypical person might bore easily at doing — these could be good ASD jobs). But that is a long time from now and middle- and high-schools may help prepare kids for life outside of school than they used to (even if they are going on to college, many students start with being local commuters living at home for a year or two before transferring to complete a 4-year degree).

      And yes, it can be exhausting. OTOH, my neurotypical kid is not a cakewalk.

      1. I feel like school is more accommodating than the workplace because it has to be; maybe I’m fortunate that I have never, ever encountered a work environment that’s more of a sensory (or social) hellscape than grade school.

    2. Also, there are special camps for ASD kids and they might benefit from this (ditto the parents).

    3. to you it probably wasn’t that big of a deal, but it is exhausting to live like that all the time. honestly dad needs therapy for himself. he needs to properly mourn the children he thought he would have in order to be able to try to accept the ones he does. being a parent is really really hard. no one dreams of becoming a parent of a child with special needs. even though people don’t like to admit it, we all have preconceived notions of the things we will do with our kids, but sometimes (most times!) that doesn’t match up with reality. obviously this is much more than having a son who has zero interest in sports when you always dreamt of helping your kid practice for little league. it is also hard when you see your friends’ kids doing things that yours dont/cant. they are 9 years old and yes things could change a lot between now and when they are adults, but it might not and they need to try to figure out what their plans are. on a lighter note – i’m fairly certain many professionals in silicon valley wear shorts to work :-)

      1. +1. Not the same situation but I have a kid with ADHD and we have done a lot of reckoning with ourselves, that the future we envisioned for him and the one that is actually going to be feasible and comfortable for him are two different things. That being said, we got him a dedicated tutor to help him learn organization and study skills, and his school (where he’s on a 504) got him a “mentor” who is a teacher who also has ADHD. Those two things have made a gigantic difference in his executive functioning, and he’s doing really well in school, and also having less anxiety and less feelings of being “other” among his peers. Again, not the same situation as autism and the parents in the OP’s story may need to accept that these kids may not go to college (or go the way it was envisioned) and may have to take jobs where their neurodiversity will be accommodated (which is hopefully going to be more and more workplaces over time). But I do think there are life skills classes, mentoring, tutoring, behavioral and occupational therapy, and other things people can do to help kids with ASD learn life and coping skills, and if those were my kids, I would be throwing everything I could at the problem at this point, when the kids’ brains are still relatively plastic and they have a lot of capacity to learn adaptive behaviors. The older a kid gets, the more intervention is required to get similar results. I regret not getting our son’s diagnosis sooner for this reason.

    4. With the caveat that I also have never raised kids or special needs kids, it sounds to me like these are fairly normal worries/woes for the parent of special needs children to have, and to generally feel unable to confess because it would be like admitting to not loving their children just the way they are. It sounds like you gave him some encouragement (holidays are probably extra rough due to the disruption of his kids’ routines) when he needed it.

    5. autism, anxiety and OCD are all very commonly found together. meds can help with the anxiety/OCD stuff. there are accommodations even at the college level. highly recommend the parents join the group “autistic allies” on FB and lurk (don’t post until you know the group) – lots of autistic adults in the groups with jobs and careers.

    6. I would not have gone with optimism + talk to their drs/therapists. That is very shallow and denies the dad’s very real anguish and suffering. Of course he’s talking to their doctors and therapists, and if he’s not, there is a bigger issue that your reminding him to talk to the doctor will not help. Just practice active listening–“gosh, you sound exhausted” etc. And volunteer to give the parents a break if you can.

    7. Dad needs to work through his issues. They are nine years old. Right now their routines are meeting some need for them. Their needs will change. They will build new routines that meet their future needs. They may get better at dealing with unexpected stuff like the wrong drink, or they may get better at identifying and choosing sources of consistency in their lives that won’t be suddenly available in the same way. And sometimes they may skip a meal. They’ll wear pants because they want a job more than they want to wear shorts, or they’ll get a job where they can wear shorts (I had a professor in college who earned his Ivy League BA when he was still a teen; he wore shorts all winter, along with his socks + sandals). The world is a big place, and autistic people often end up off the beaten path; Dad needs a bigger imagination.

      And some of the distress can be from, I don’t know if it would be called anxiety?, but from stress if they’re being repeatedly put in situations where there’s a lot of pressure to conform or comply. So if the speech therapist is using behaviorist techniques (hopefully not), the progress could be coming at a cost that can make other difficulties more pronounced.

      1. This. In a way it is better for these kids (and really all kids) when they can do things their way. Like the one who decides he must have a Snapple once a day will likely keep 1-2 crates of Snapple around at all times so if it’s sold out it’s NBD. If they want to wear shorts all the time, they will and just keep their homes at a higher heat or maybe they’ll move to San Diego were shorts all year are fine. And needs change. Just because the needs right now are 4 showers/day and Snapple does not mean that those will be the needs forever. It sounds like a bit of a stressful home with 4 kids and a dad who isn’t really “accepting” this and it’s possible they’re reacting to that a bit and would do better when they can just be who they are (though I’m not saying parents can just let 9 year olds run off doing whatever but that line of parenting vs. freedom is hard for all kids let alone autistic kids).

    8. I honestly don’t think that there’s anything that you can say or do, other than continue to be a good cousin and be in their lives and sympathize with them. It’s not a big deal to you but as these kids become adults the gap will be more and more pronounced and it’s possible that they may never live independently or hold down jobs. They will miss out on normal milestones and it will be sad and disappointing. I have an autistic family member who is treated for anxiety but it’s still not going to enable him to ever live independently. There are employers who have autism workforce programs but they seem to target a very specific kind of autistic person. My relative was fired from one of those programs because the employer didn’t realize he wasn’t going to be working with a genius tv show character.

    9. I am no autism expert but to answer “what would you have said here?” – in general I think people who are upset want to be heard, not to have someone solve their problems. So I would say things to indicate I was listening and trying to emphathize, e.g., “I can understand why that would worry you” or ” that sounds tough” or “I can tell this is really bothering you” depending on how close you are.

      Also, I’m the parent of a neurotypical 9 year old and this sounds EXHAUSTING, stressful, and I can understand why it is worrying the parents. Of course the Dad should NOT be conveying to his kids that they are a disappointment, but I also think any parent in his shoes would have some worries about his kids’ futures and how their needs would impact his own life long term. Keep in mind that at this point in the pandemic, most working parents are burnt out, running on fumes, and have no reserves of sanity to draw on to tamp down our doomsday imaginings.

      1. +1 to all of this. My son has ADHD. Not quite the same situation as autism, but his flavor of ADHD happens to come with the comorbidity of severe anxiety (possibly OCD? time will tell), which looks like routines and lack of flexibility. It is tiring. I worry about him and his happiness constantly, and that’s without the additional concern of “will he be able to live independently”? The most helpful thing is to BELIEVE THE PARENTS when they say they’re having a hard time and do your best not to judge them or their kids. Of course, life is different than the dad imagined, and it has less to do with his sons not living up to expectations (barf) and more because parenting children with autism can be hard, plain and simple. I guarantee you’re seeing a fraction of what he deals with on a daily basis, and beats himself up for not coping well enough.

    10. Encourage these parents to join the Asperger and Autism Network, located in Watertown, Massachusetts, just outside of Boston, and you yourself can join as a family member. AANE has on line and in person support groups for parents, workshops and conferences, and tons of information. As a board member as well as the parent of a now 31 year old who is on the spectrum, this organization saved my life as the parent of a child on the spectrum.

      Development and time are great things: these boys behavior will not stay the same, it will evolve and change. Routines and compulsive habits are not unusual–sounds like a bit of OCD is going on, also not unusual. Gentle encouragement toward behavior change (“some day you won’t want to shower after you go to the bathroom!”) and time are the way to go. It is really super hard to be the parent of a child on the spectrum. All the things that one looked forward to, like sports, school bands or plays, etc. are unlikely to happen. It is like getting off the airplane and thinking you landed in Italy, as planned, but you are in Holland. Not what you had in mind, but look! there are tulips, and cheeses, and windmills.

      If they are in school, and it sounds like they are, the teachers may provide the parents with perspective on the long term development process. My son, who is now a successful electrical engineer, did not leave our house for 5 years–no social life at all. He went out to eat or to movies or to ski with us, but no friends, no clubs, no activities. We were scared sh!tl3ss that he would never leave home. His intelligence and determination carried him through, eventually. Figure out their strengths, and keep going (actuarials need to be OCD!). It will get better, and they will grow, I promise.

  28. OP here. Another example is we got them some gimmicky pasta as part of a gift basket- I think it was something like alma-mater branded pasta shapes? Anyway, that was at least a decade ago and it’s still in their pantry. If it doesn’t look appealing, THROW IT AWAY!!!

    1. Haha I think you should throw it away next time you visit them: “OMG I can’t believe you still have this! It must have gone bad by now — let me toss it for you!”

  29. Prefacing this post by saying that I don’t have kids, so maybe what I really need is a reality check that this is normal behavior…but my husband and I spent the long weekend with his brother and SIL and their 4-year-old daughter is absolutely tyrannical. When she was 2 we wrote it off as just being a toddler, but it seems to only be getting worse. A few examples:

    * We decided to exchange xmas presents while we were there because we will be with the other side of our families for the holiday. Niece saw presents under the tree and immediately went and started opening, MIL nicely asked her to stop and that we would open later. Niece proceeded to have a 20-minute meltdown that included screaming, crying and hitting and scratching the wall.
    * Later that day, we went to a movie. When we got out, she was upset that it was dark out. She tried to stop my MIL from getting into the backseat of the car, and then had another 5-10 min long tantrum when SIL tried to buckle her into her carseat (while kicking the back of my chair).
    * Those were just the BIGGG blow-ups. But it felt like there was some form of yelling/screaming pretty much every 10-15 minutes while we were there. Either people weren’t paying attention to her when she needed them to (PAY ATTENTION, LISTEN TO ME, I’M THE BOSS) or they needed to STOP LOOKING AT ME, DON’T TALK TO ME/EVERYBODY STOP TALKING. Often these commands would be back-to-back (e.g NOBODY TALK TO ME and then 5 seconds later WHO IS GOING TO HELP ME). It was impossible to know what would set her off, and everyone was walking on eggshells all weekend. She clearly runs the household.

    BIL and SIL seem to think this is perfectly normal kid behavior. Over the weekend SIL remarked on two separate occasions what a good/nice girl she was being and how much the people at daycare love her. MIL and FIL are also super concerned but have been told to back off in the past (they tried to talk to BIL and SIL about niece’s sugar consumption, which is extremely high and could be causing much of the behavioral problems).

    As the in-law and someone who doesn’t have kids (and is now unsure whether or not we want them after seeing this play out over the last couple of years) – I’m pretty sure it’s not my place say anything to them. But it’s truly so heartbreaking and exhausting to watch. I’m not sure if this is venting or looking for advice. We are not super close to BIL or SIL due to extreme differences in political/religious leanings, but still see them several times a year and try to keep things cordial for MIL and FIL’s sake.

    1. All this fall within in normal behavior of a 4 year old, not all kids are like this but many are and usually they grow out of it.

      1. +1. Preschoolers are not flexible in their ideas and struggle with emotional regulation. For the love of God, please do not assume this is their fault for giving their kid too much sugar (which research has not really shown to affect kids behavior) or praising the child if/when she is doing well (which is an often recommended strategy for behavior modification). I would maybe worry if the parents were not setting limits at all, but it sounds like they are and their daughter just doesn’t like them. That’s pretty normal. And there may in fact be something wrong with this child, but you are not in a position to diagnose her. The people she sees every day, and who see other 4 year olds constantly (e.g. daycare teachers) are much better positioned to notice a problem and bring it to her poor parents.

        1. Just to clarify, the comments about her being a good girl were made to the other adults after niece had gone to bed for the day. That’s part of why we were concerned – kids have bad days, for sure. Especially when they’re out of routine and have guests visiting. But after a day with multiple complete and total meltdowns she told us it had been a good day. And the sugar intake is in lieu of other foods. A sample day would be hot cocoa with marshmallows, Reese’s pieces doughnut for breakfast, juice, sour patch gummies because she’s hungry before lunch, more juice, then doesn’t eat her lunch because she’s no longer hungry, icee, white rice for dinner, more hot cocoa. Again, I know it can be hard to handle a picky eater – but would this really not affect mood? (Seriously asking, maybe I am ignorant on this and at that age you just need to do what you gotta do to get them enough calories)

          1. It’s possible it affected her mood, and also possible that while traveling they could not or chose not to enforce a less sugary diet for various reasons. E.g. maybe the kid is very picky but will normally eat a limited range of healthy options that were not available, or parents chose to loosen rules while on vacation, etc. Either way, there is no benefit to you saying a word. You don’t know enough to be a trusted expert here. If the child is outside the bounds of normal, there are other people in her life better positioned to offer constructive feedback. If you do, the parents will just be mad at you.

      2. Yup nothing you’ve described is abnormal behavior for a 4 year old, particularly one who is closer to 3 than 5. It is not your BIL and SIL’s fault.

    2. I’m just going to tell you a little story my mom used to tell: She hosted Thanksgiving for my dad’s side of the family when I was a tiny two-month-old laying angelically in my cradle. She was horrified — HORRIFIED! — at the behavior of my two boy cousins, who were then about the age of your niece. They were running all around the house and yelling and having meltdowns, and I don’t know what-all. She was busy with dinner, of course, and given that she was an in-law, she didn’t say anything about this horrific behavior. Instead, she comforted herself with the knowledge that HER sweet baby girl would never, ever, in a million years would behave like such a heathen devil spawn.

      Heh.

      You see where I’m going with this, don’t you? Let’s just say that in the years to come, especially after my little brother showed up, she was very glad she’d kept her mouth shut.

      Also, in my experience the Fearsome Fours are every bit as bad, if not worse, than that Terrible Twos.

      1. Thank you for the thoughtful reply! We’re trying hard to keep that perspective. I think my husband and I do have some unconscious biases because of our ideological differences with the parents, and that may be influencing our interpretation of the situation.

      2. Yes! I practically broke my arm patting myself on the back for my daughter’s good behavior, then I had my son. He was a total terror of a toddler, hell’s own preschooler, and a pretty feisty kindergartner and first grader. Now he’s 10 and really quite lovely.

        1. Love the phrase “practically broke my arm patting myself on the back.” So apt in many situations, including this one.

      3. Yes! My SIL always acts so horrified by my daughter’s (very normal) threenager behavior. I cannot wait until she’s humbled by her own kids.

        And agree 3-4 is far worse than 2, I think in large part because they no longer look or talk like babies so we expect them to control their behavior better, but many kids that age really can’t.

    3. I think some of this is relatively normal when a 4 year old’s needs aren’t being met/their routines are being disrupted/they’re hungry, overtired, whatever. I’ve certainly seen plenty of kids flail when being buckled into a car seat.

      It sounds like what’s not normal is the parents not knowing how to prevent this kind of dysregulation or respond to it in a way that helps. I feel bad for the kid I guess!

      1. Agree. It is not uncommon for kids to behave their worst when they’re out of routine and the stakes are high (family holiday and Expectations from Clueless Relatives that Must Be Met). Is this an extreme example? Maybe, but I wouldn’t leap to the conclusion that the kid runs the house.

    4. What possible advice would you need about somebody else’s child?! Sure, go ahead and vent about four year old behavior, it’s certainly not pleasant. But it doesn’t sound like there’s anything wrong and definitely nothing that warrants your intervention.

      1. The advice she needs is a warning that if she has a kid it could turn out like this.

    5. This is at the edge of normal 4-year-old behavior. It is not caused by excessive sugar consumption. If my child acted like this I’d never take her out of the house, though. It would just be too stressful and not worth it.

      1. Yup. I think people don’t always appreciate the huge spectrum of normal when it comes to child development. Is this how the median 4 year old behaves? Nope. But the kids who are 98th or 99th percentile in terms of intensity don’t necessarily have “problems” and their parents certainly aren’t doing anything wrong. Everything you’ve described is within the normal range of 4 year old behavior even if the vast majority of 4 year olds have better emotional regulation.

        My pediatrician is always telling me that when it comes to child development “normal is not typical.” See also, my kid who didn’t walk until 17 months. That is medically “normal” in the sense that it is considered ok if they walk anytime before 18 months, but it is certainly not typical – most children walk far far earlier, some as early as 8 months and the median is around 12 months.

        1. This is a hugely helpful perspective – thank you. And thank you for the thoughtful response without adding in a jab or snark.

    6. I mean, kids are kids and it can be normal for them to behave that way. My normally great toddler has an absolutely insane meltdown during Thanksgiving dinner, running around screaming and yelling and hitting things and it’s not because we sugared him up or don’t offer him normal parental guidance. Sometimes bad behavior is exacerbated by parenting style but a lot of the time it’s unavoidable. Kid also act differently at daycare vs at home so she could be a perfect angel at school and lose it at home. It is exhausting and unpleasant but she will grow out of it. I don’t know any adults who run around screaming and throwing fits at least. :)

    8. I am going to disagree with everyone else who is saying this is normal 4 year old behavior. I am the oldest of 3 (by a decade and more), aunt to 5, and mother of 1, and none of those 8 ever behaved like this at age 4 with one MAJOR caveat that might be at play here. Children that age who are tired/hungry/having their routines disrupted have very little ability to cope. They just have not developed the ability to deal with discomfort and disruption. Unfortunately that means that holidays and out of town guests often result in regression to the types of behavior more typical of 2 year olds. So the fact that your niece behaves this way on holiday weekends with a bunch of guests present does not mean she behaves like that all the time or even often. And her parents may well have learned not to feed the cycle by over-reacting to it.

      So (1) neither you nor your in-laws should be mentioning this to the parents. If they want advice they can ask for it but it should not be offered unless solicited ESPECIALLY by someone without children and (2) this type of behavior is not inevitable for a child that age but my own experience is that good behavior at the pre-school age is heavily dependent on both strict discipline at the toddler stage and meticulous adherence to routines that are not always possible when you have guests.

      2. I agree as mother of four with a large extended family. I don’t think sugar is a huge issue but I do think lack of proper nutrition is likely a factor. The four biggest impacts on my kids are unbalanced and insufficient meals, lack of (or disruption to) sleep, lack of fresh air, and too much screentime. If those are in check, they are fine. But even when they are off kilter none of them have behaved like that. (Nor the rest of the kids we ar around).

    9. Everybody knows about the terrible twos, but nobody tells you about the f’n fours. You don’t need advice or a reality check. This isn’t any of your business. If you decide to have children one day, you will look back on this post and be mortified.

      1. Counterpoint – I would have been absolutely mortified if my 4 year old had thrown a screaming temper tantrum even once at that age absent serious extenuation circumstances, much less multiple times over the course of a weekend. That stopped within a few months of her 3rd birthday. I actually though her 4th birthday ushered in the golden age (and lest you think I am in denial – 2 to early 3 were horrific and don’t even get me started on 13-15).

        But I took a pretty hard line on that type of misbehavior early on (Throw a tantrum at home? Ok you are going to get picked up and carried to your room, where you will stay until you get control of yourself since clearly you need quiet and rest because you are overstimulated. Throw a tantrum in public, you are getting taken to the car where you will stay until you can control yourself because clearly you need a break. Kicking, hitting or screaming? Same with the addition of getting your toy (she always had a stuffed animal with her) put in time out because that is not acceptable behavior. (I must have said “I do not yell at you and you will not yell at me” a thousand times. Fortunately I only had to say “I do not hit you and you will not hit me” once, apparently my “you will never, ever do that again” made an impression.) Misbehave in a restaurant? We are going home (I always asked for and paid my check when we ordered). Constantly interrupting adults – first time you get a distraction, second time you get a warning delivered quietly and in private (I do not believe in humiliating children), third time you can go to your room for 15 minutes to settle down.

        It was exhausting both mentally and physically. And I was really careful to pick my battles. I did not say no unless I had a reason. But I thought (and still do) that children (without emotional or neurological disabilities) can and should be taught what is acceptable public behavior once they are old enough to understand what they are being told. And that they will behave as well or as poorly as the adults in their lives accept and tolerate.

        And any parent who regularly pacifies their hungry child with junk food has decided to take the lazy way out.

        2. Then you got lucky with kids who are even-keeled by nature. Kids, like adults, have a large range of behaviors and personalities and there are certainly plenty of 4 year olds who don’t have regular meltdowns. But anyone who has or knows a spirited kid knows that frequent meltdowns are not at all unheard of in kids this age. Most pediatricians (in the US at least) won’t even refer kids to behavioral specialists for regular tantrums before the age of 5-6 because until then it is considered developmentally appropriate for kids to lose it as often as once a day. Meltdowns are in many (maybe even most?) cases not a choice the child is making, and punishments like sending a child to their room do not solve or deter them. As just one example, sensory overstimulation can cause meltdowns in preschool age children, even in children who are neurotypical and don’t have an SPD diagnosis. I’d recommend the Raising Your Spirited Child book, but you seem more interested in judging other moms than learning about the normal range of child development.

          1. I’m sorry if it came off that way, but I’m not judging moms….when did I ever single out my SIL over my BIL? Also, I’m confused – from your post, it sounds like total meltdowns 2-3 times a day with screaming fits every 10-15 minutes would NOT be considered developmentally normal? And that’s on a day that was called a “good day.” I may be coming off as judgy but I’m more looking for reassurance that my niece is okay and doesn’t have a behavioral disorder that is not being addressed. I’ve babysat for kids this age, I have friends with kids, and I’ve even met SIL’s nephews on the other side (who SIL and BIL describe as “little hellions” – they seemed rambunctious but totally normal to us) and just have never seen a child with such unfettered and near constant rage. There are enough people saying it’s normal on here for me to hope that things will get better for her and it’s a phase she grows out of, but it is really scary and upsetting to see and feel so helpless. I know my MIL and FIL feel the same way.

          2. You will note I said “I” would be mortified. Because I knew my kid and I knew she was capable of better behavior. I am also the poster above who said that 4 year olds who were hungry or tired or had their routines disrupted could be expected to regress and that nobody should offer advice to parents who did not ask for it.

            I was the mother carrying my screaming toddler out of buildings but she was 2 – barely 3 – not 4. And there are certainly 4 years old who will misbehave despite best efforts. But I just spent Thanksgiving with five children between the ages of 2 and 6 who were all in a strange place, with crowds of people they hardly know and completely disrupted routines and not a one did anything like OP described. The one tantrum was stopped almost immediately because my SIL picked her screaming child up, carried him out of the room, and sat him down until he calmed down. And then apologized to the rest of the guests for the disruption. My child was impossible at 2 and barely tolerable at 13. I am not living in La La Land convinced I had the perfect kid or that I was the perfect parent. But she did not routinely throw screaming tantrums at 4 and if she had I would have been explaining and apologizing, not talking about what a great, well behaved child she was.

            I do not know these people and will refrain from judging. For all I know she is usually a very well behaved and well parented child who was not feeling well, was not sleeping well or had something else going on. But I am surprised at both the suggestion that this is completely normal 4 year old behavior that should be accepted without discipline or comment and the defensiveness on behalf of her parents. It is not inevitable, 4 year olds are not babies or even toddlers, and based on the dozens of children in my truly enormous family can be redirected by firm parenting. (And without I hasten to add spanking or other extreme punishment.)

          3. It is not inevitable *in some kids.* It is in others. The fact that you know “dozens” of children does not mean you know the entire spectrum of normal child behavior. If a kid is more difficult than 99% of kids, they’re unlikely to show up in your sample size of two dozen, but it doesn’t mean they don’t exist and it certainly doesn’t mean their behavior is the result of poor parenting.

            As you may have guessed, I have a child like this. I actually wondered when I read it if my SIL wrote the post. Some details are slightly different, but perhaps she fudged them for anonymity. We have seen three pediatricians, including a developmental pediatrician (a pediatrician who specializes in child behavioral development), and now a child psychologist. Fwiw, I had to push extremely hard to get these referrals – if your kid holds it together in school, as mine does, and isn’t physically harming humans or animals, it’s almost impossible to get doctors to take your concerns about your preschool age child’s behavior seriously. Every single doctor we’ve seen, including the developmental ped, has told me there is nothing they can do until my child is significantly older because her behavior is within the realm of normal. Meltdowns in preschool age children are not “misbehavior” (again, in many cases, it is not a choice to melt down – the child physiologically lacks the ability to self-regulate and stop the tears, just like an infant physiologically lacks the ability to walk or talk) and they cannot be fixed by sterner parenting, and anyone who suggests otherwise has no idea what they’re talking about.

            On the point about the SIL and BIL describing what you consider “bad behavior” as “good behavior.” Our psychologist has emphasized praising even the smallest example of good (i.e., improved) behavior. The result is that we praise lots of things (e.g., not hitting mid-meltdown) that most other parents of 4 year olds take for granted. I’m sure it looks insane to outsiders to see parents telling their very tall 4 year “good job not hitting anyone, we’re so proud of you!” but it is direct advice we’ve received from a medical professional who has far more knowledge of child development than you or OP, and it seems to be helping our kid.

            Having a child who behaves like this is incredibly isolating and exhausting. Judgment from other people who think our kid is the way she is because we’re crappy parents is salt in the wound. Every expert we have seen has emphasized to us that we’re not bad parents and this is not our fault but of course it still hurts when people insinuate that. Also just FYI no one outside of my mom and best friend knows how seriously we’re working on this, so just because these parents don’t act concerned to their nosy SIL doesn’t mean they aren’t. My daughter has a right to privacy and I do not owe anyone an explanation for her behavior.

            Also please keep in mind that many if not most children with special needs are not flagged by age 4. Girls, particularly, are very hard to get ASD diagnoses for before elementary school, because ASD girls tend to be much more verbal, affectionate and imaginative than ASD boys and don’t get flagged on the toddler ASD screenings, which are very focused on language and imagination. Who knows whether my kid (or OP’s niece) will eventually get a diagnosis, but it’s not reasonable to assume a 4 year old is neurotypical and hold them to that standard (“But….children (without emotional or neurological disabilities) can and should be taught what is acceptable public behavior…”). It is simply too soon to assert her niece has no emotional or neurological disabilities, even if she has no diagnosis at this point.

            Finally, kind of a minor point but you keep describing this as “public” behavior, but none of it sounds like it actually took place in public (the movie theater meltdown was in the car with just family around). Many kids consider family their safe space and will lose their cool around family members far more than around strangers/teachers/etc. I certainly wouldn’t sit in a restaurant or theater with a screaming kid – you remove them, obviously – but I don’t see any mention of OP’s BIL and SIL doing anything inappropriate like that.

            Ok, /r*nt over. Clearly a sensitive subject for me. But it really hurts to be told that my kid – who, again, according to all the experts, lacks the physiological brain development to regulate her emotions – is melting down because I suck as a parent.

          4. Anon @ 9:54, I am so sorry you’re going through that. I can guarantee I am not your SIL (I would be truly shocked if she read this blog), and it sounds like you’re doing all the right things. I sincerely wish you and your daughter all the best. You’re right that it’s very possible BIL and SIL are only talking to SIL’s mom/others and not my in-laws about the situation, and maybe they are way more concerned than they let on. But to clarify, the comment about “good behavior” was not regarding praising the kid, it was a comment made to the adults once niece was in bed. So instead of “things are really tough right now, we’re trying our best but sometimes there are bad days.” we’re instead hearing how wonderful niece is. It is just kind of jarring. But again, you’re right, I am probably being nosy and need to let it go. Not my kid, not my problem. I will keep working on the praise piece, which I think is all I can do (and to your point, we all did a LOT of praise and positive reinforcement – good job eating, thank you for being patient, etc.).

          5. Thanks Auburn. I didn’t really think you were my SIL (for one thing she and I are definitely on the same page about our lefty politics :)) but my SIL is childless and often appears horrified by my kid’s behavior, and she just left my house after spending the holiday weekend here so it would have been a timely post. I do understand that praising a kid’s behavior to other adults (not in front of the kid) is very different than praising a kid directly, and I can see why that would be jarring to you. And it is definitely not wrong for you to think it’s heartbreaking and exhausting to witness! It is likely heartbreaking and exhausting for the parents too.

            My rant was really aimed at Anon Mom implying that a 4 year old regularly melting down is completely beyond the realm of normal behavior (it isn’t, any pediatrician will tell you that a small but non-trivial number of children still struggle greatly with self-regulation at this age) and that preventing meltdowns is within the parents’ control if only they would just discipline their kid enough (it isn’t, melting down isn’t a choice a child is making and punishing them for it actually makes the problem worse, not better). Sorry if you felt like my comments were aimed at you. You asked a reasonable question and got a lot of reasonable answers already and I wasn’t trying to pile on. And sorry for calling you nosy, that wasn’t nice! I was thinking more about my own situation and people like Anon Mom who assume I’m a sh!tty parent because my kid has lower than average self-regulation skills for a kid her age, but there was nothing in your original post to suggest you were prying into your niece’s situation, so I shouldn’t have said that.

            You sound like a caring aunt and I hope for your niece’s sake that she outgrows these issues (many children naturally make great strides in self-regulation between ages 4 and 6) and/or she gets the help she needs.

      2. +1 million to you will look back on this post after you have kids and be mortified. It is so, so easy to judge kid behavior when you haven’t been the mom holding the screaming, thrashing, wailing kid. And I don’t mean that unkindly – I was judgy before I had kids too.

    10. Have you not hung out with young kids? This sounds fairly normal, given the context (holiday event with family she doesn’t see super often, out of routine). Kids grow out of this.

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