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Updated: Nov 1, 2018 272 Comments · by

Coffee Break – ‘Logo Crest’ Color Piping Leather Belt

Coffee Break

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Vince Camuto 'Logo Crest' Color Piping Leather BeltWhat's better than a blue leather skinny belt? A blue leather skinny belt with green piping, which I can see bringing a lot of personality even to a boring black dress. Love this belt from Vince Camuto, also available in black with white piping. It's $38 at Nordstrom. Vince Camuto ‘Logo Crest' Color Piping Leather Belt (L-3)

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Comments

  1. Lili

    Did you see the article about women in Manhattan who work out 2 to 3 times a day? I thought it could be interesting to discuss here.

    I personally feel lucky to get one workout in a day! I’m not sure what the benefit of putting in more time would be though. I think it would be deterimental to my social and family life. What do you think?

    • AIMS

      I am a woman in Manhattan and I do not work out, period. Unless one considers each workout to consist of “walking to/from train,” “taking stairs to walk up apartment,” and “navigating cobblestone blocks and subway grates in high heeled shoes.”
      I don’t know who these crazy ladies are ;)

        • Susan

          If I manage to work out 1-2x in one week, I feel like I’m Kathy Smith. If I manage 3-4x a week, I’ll probably feel like Richard Simmons!

      • Sydney Bristow

        I like to add to “taking stairs to walk up apartment” to make it “dragging 2 weeks worth of laundry up and down 4 flights of stairs and around the block” and call it strength training!

    • momentsofabsurdity

      Three times a week is sufficient and cited by many studies as what’s necessary to maintain a fit, healthy and active body. I shoot for four times. I don’t think I could do every day.

      I think a lot of it depends on your goals. If you are feeling active and happy with one workout per day, I see no reason to up it, unless there is something specific you’re training for.

      In general, if working out multiple times makes you happy, more power to you. I have some friends for which this is the case. I have other friends for whom working out multiple times a day has really devolved into an addition. Like anything else, exercise can become a compulsion and end up as a net-unhealthy for you, and I know I have some friends for whom this is the case.

      • Lynnet

        NPR was teasing a clip about how working out can be actually addictive this morning. I got to work before the segment aired, but it sounded really interesting.

      • CA Atty

        Everything you said. I have a friend who works out at least 3 times per day, morning before work, run at lunch, evening after work. I don’t know that it’s an addiction yet with her, though I suspect it is (she has blown me off on numerous occasions to workout) but it makes her happy. She also exercises with her husband at least once each day, morning or evening, and it seems to keep their marriage strong.

        It works for them! (I’m really trying to go 4-5 times per week and for the last two weeks that has meant once. For both weeks. Sigh.)

        • PghAnon

          I would love to work out this much but I don’t have the time/inclination to shower/hair/makeup/dress this much. Does she just do that whole routine 2-3x/day?

    • a.

      Haven’t read the article you’re talking about, so can’t discuss the women in it specifically, but more time working out = more fitness, which might = more progress towards whatever fitness-related goals you’re working towards. Personally, I’d love to get up early in the morning for strength training or yoga, then have my regularly-scheduled runs in the evenings; after I get done running, I never feel like hitting the weights or the yoga mat, even though I know I should. But while I get up early, I can’t seem to get myself up *that* early. So.

      Caveat, of course, being exercise bulimia. That’s not healthy. If you’re working out that much, you need to tailor your diet accordingly.

    • TCFKAG

      Was it in the NY Times? They kind of like to find one person in Manhattan who does something and then say “hey look! we found this craaazzzy trend.” I’ve stopped reading those. :-P

    • anon

      I think it depends on what your goals are – I haven’t read the article, but I suspect it has more to do with fitting into designer clothes and looking impossibly thin than being strong, healthy, or training for particular sports.

      I’m a competitive athlete and so I get in two workout sessions (morning and evening) most weekdays – the exception is Friday, when I’m morning-only. I also have training sessions for about 4 hours one day per weekend, and I’ll take the other day off entirely (unless something random comes along, pick up soccer game or hiking, etc, that sounds fun). However, these are specific workout sessions tailored to my athletic goals and I’m more focused on wanting to be able to accomplish x, y and z than wanting my body to look a, b, or c.

      My SO is also involved in these activities, so it doesn’t impact family life, and we definitely make time to see other friends as well.

      Not in Manhattan.

      • anon from 3:06

        Okay, now that I’ve read the article, I will add that I also don’t spend NEARLY this amount of money per month. My monthly dues are approximately $100-150, all in all.

        • CA Atty

          Really?? I’ve been trying to decide if I’m going to join a gym for $80/month. That would include all classes but would not include extras (which they do offer but I doubt I would use) like laundry services or any spa (facials, massage, etc) uses. $80 seems like SO much, since I used to belong to a gym for $25/month! But it has EVERYTHING, and most of the other gyms in town seem to be missing something I would want. i.e. they have a pool but lap times are limited to times I can’t get there, or they don’t have a spa/sauna, which I don’t really need but would love to have, or they don’t have tennis courts, which similarly are on my “want but don’t need” list. Except I enjoy tennis and it’s a great workout. Etc…

          Maybe $80 isn’t so bad??

          • Oh.so.tired

            I’d consider that alot. Right now I have a gym membership for $10/mo but there are no classes offered but I like that the gym is HUGE and I can always get on the machine I want. Pre-lawschool, when I was not student-poor, I was paying $45/mo and it included everything you listed except instead of a tennis court it had a basketball cour and rockclimbing wall. The gym was 24 hours and had tanning/spa/salon at additional prices.

        • anon from 3:06

          So my $100-150 per month isn’t for a normal gym – it is for martial arts. I don’t belong to a normal gym (my apartment complex has an exercise room that I use when I need it, and I run stadiums and sprints at the local university in addition to longer distance runs outside).

          However, I think that $80 per month, if it is within your budget, is perfectly reasonable for something that makes you happy, is good for your mood, is good for your body/health/etc.

      • MissJackson

        Yeah, I was going to say that “two-a-days” are a common training technique for those who do endurance training. Long distance runners and triathletes often use “two-a-days” as part of their training. For me, it’s sometimes easier to fit in two shorter workouts than it is to fit in one long workout (example: fitting in two 5-mile runs can be easier than fitting in a 10-miler mid-week).

        But I don’t even belong to a gym and none of this impacts my social life beyond normal endurance training (which is to say: it impacts my social life a lot, but I think it’s worth it).

        I haven’t read the article yet, but this discussion has piqued my interest.

        • CA Atty

          When I was an athlete two-a-days were a matter of course. Workout in the am (usually) and then practice for the sport in the pm. As an athlete it’s almost required, there’s just not enough time in the day otherwise!

        • TCFKAG

          Swimmers do two-a-days all the time. But…it’s definitely harder if you have, like, a full-time job and a life. In high school though, 5:30 am practice was my jam. :-P

          • CA Atty

            Actually, swim team was how I started two-a-days, until college tennis when they were routine. I hated 530am practice, my brother loved them. Related note: I suck at swimming (in that I’m slow, not that I can’t do it), my brother was just thismuch too slow to make the olympic team. :-)

    • src

      I’ve done two in a day very occasionally, but that’s on a weekend day when the stars align and I can get in a run and a yoga class. Physically, they’re so different I don’t worry about overuse injuries (if anything, I think yoga helps my recovery from running). As for interfering with the rest of my life, exercise is a priority, but not the top priority. I’ll show up late to a birthday party to get a run in, but if the choice is run or go to the party, I’ll see you at the party.

    • Ellen

      I try to work out 3X per WEEK, if I am lucky! But I have alot of work and most days do NOT even think of workeing out.

      I JUST got back my computer. I left it on yesterday, and there was some BLIP in the power, so the teck guys had to fix it. They are so GEEKEY! UGH!

      The manageing partner will NOT give me a lap top to take home or a BLACKBerry, so I have to come in here on Weekend’s. FOOEY!

    • Godzilla

      Hmmm, now that I read the article, may I just take a second to blame Groupon, LivingSocial and all the other online coupon sites? Sure, it’s poor planning on my part but I think oh hey, belly dancing, barre and bootcamp? For so cheap? Sure, I’ll schedule them for different months. And then I don’t. And then I feel guilty and schedule them all right before they’re about to expire. I’m not a smart monster, that’s for sure.

      • fresh jd

        I thank all those deal sites for giving me cheaper access to all these boutique gyms I couldn’t otherwise afford and for allowing me to sample so many on a trial basis before committing to one I like.

        • Godzilla

          It’s a mixed blessing, that’s for sure. Especially for the impulse-minded (ie, me).

      • CA Atty

        Right there with ya. I love it because of the variety, but, for instance, I currently need to schedule barre class and kickboxing class. By the 15th. When?? Probably 2-a-days. :-)

    • Artie

      I work out 3-4 times and play volleyball twice a week. This article was interesting, because I couldn’t imagine working out much more, seeing my friends, and making quality time with my SO. It’s all about priorities, I suppose.

    • Bluejay

      Ridiculous NYT “fake trend” story aside… I walk 60 minutes roundtrip to/from work and I do a 45-60 minute cardio class at least 4 days a week, plus 60-90 minutes of yoga 2-3 days a week. On weekends I often get in both a cardio workout and a yoga class. I think if I didn’t spend 60 minutes walking, I could easily get in a second daily workout on weekdays too. It doesn’t seem so strange to me – I enjoy working out and practicing yoga. It’s my hobby and it makes me feel good. I prioritize working out over going out on weeknights, because it’s healthy and good for me, unlike margaritas. If my friends want to hang out I invite them to go to yoga with me (yep, I’m annoying) or we meet up after my workout. And I have multiple memberships, to my gym and to my yoga studio.

      Of course, exercise addiction is a real thing and people can work out to excess and harm themselves. But there are a lot of people who just enjoy working out.

    • anon

      I’ve been splitting up my old 45 minute workout into 2 20-25 minute workouts, one in the morning and one in the evening, because I’m just too out of shape to do 45 minutes at once now, but I don’t think that’s what they are talking about.

      • Bluejay

        :)

        There was a recent study that found that most of the benefit of exercise comes in the first 20 minutes, so I think you’re just ahead of the rest of us.

        well.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/05/04/the-surprising-shortcut-to-better-health/

    • NOLA

      I do two workouts three days a week. I do cardio 6 days a week at home (treadmill) and I do strength training (weight machines) at the gym 3 days a week. I take one day off completely. It’s a lot on the days I do both but adding strength training has been great for my overall strength and health. I’m over 40 so it’s a constant battle to keep my weight down and stay fit. But I am also not married, my SO lives out of town, and have no children. My cat doesn’t care how much time I spend at the gym.

      • Bluejay

        I’m sure your cat misses you! Mine is totally verklempt when I come home only to change into my gym clothes and leave again.

        • NOLA

          Yeah, she’s a big baby and she does fuss if I leave her alone too long. Ironically, I started doing cardio at home years ago when my previous cat was ill and I didn’t want to leave him at home too long. I go to the gym straight from work (it’s on campus) then go home and pet the princess before I jump on the treadmill.

        • CA Atty

          Mine gets SO mad when I’m just there and gone! I’ve actually started changing at work and going straight to run/whatever so I don’t have to brave their judgmental little stares “pet me, feed me, pet me, feed me, pet me!!!!”

    • Alanna of Trebond

      I’ve recently (law student) started working out every day and will probably do so during bar prep, but can’t imagine doing it while working full-time (nor any time other than last semester 3L year when I feel super lazy about school…).

      NY Times is good otherwise, but their trend pieces are the worst. They are not usually trends, to begin with.

    • Senior Attorney

      Yes, the NY Times trend pieces are ridic!

      That said, I work out 7 times a week, including a two-a-day on Wednesdays. And I spend upwards of $500/month for the privilege. I do a combination of personal trainer workouts, small boot camp classes, and semi-private dance lessons.

      But. I am in my 50s and small of stature, with a history of obesity, and if I want to eat more than a VERY VERY small number of calories I have to work out hard every day! My family is raised, my career is past the working-long-hours phase, my husband travels on business most weeks, I do the dance lessons with a friend so it counts as part of my social life, and honestly this is the thing I want to be spending my time on at this point. I’m in the best shape of my life and I love my muscles!

    • Alana

      Maybe it’s because many women in Manhattan walk and bike. Maybe they’re training for a race.

  2. Sweet but awkward situation

    I suspect that a guy in my class has a crush on me, and does not have a clue that I am married (despite the fact that I always wear my wedding ring!). He’s always been friendly but I never thought much of it, esp. considering he is probably around 7 years younger. But last night after class, he came up to me and said that I was “very lovely”, asked me what I was doing this summer, and today he wrote me an email asking me if I was going to be in class this week (our last class before the summer break).

    Anyhoo, he’s a sweet guy and I’m hoping to make this as least awkward as possible. What’s the best thing to say in the event he asks me out?

    As an aside, this has happened to me two other times, and both times the guys were genuinely floored that I was married. But in those instances, a mutual friend told them that I was married so I was spared the awkwardness. Don’t guys think to look at a woman’s hand??

    • Lynnet

      I would just casually mention my husband at absolutely the first opportunity. E.g. “You like hiking? So does my husband, maybe the three of us can go sometime.” “Study group tonight at 7? I’ll have to check with my husband, I think he had plans.” Or, if you get really desperate, “Yea, I was talking to my husband about our reading last night and he said…”

    • Ashley

      Do you wear a wedding ring that is traditional and “obviously” a wedding ring? I know some women wear more of a fashion ring, or just a plain silver band that doesn’t necessarily read as “married” the way that a solitaire diamond might (not knocking non-traditional rings, just saying some guys might not realize that means married). I used to wear a plain, thin silver band when I would go camping, working in theater, etc., and no one realized that it was a wedding band until they found out I was married, vs. my traditional wedding ring that everyone recognizes.

      I second Lynnet’s advice to casually mention your husband. I tend to play the husband card pretty early in a conversation when I first meet someone. Not weird or uncomfortable, but there’s usually a “tell me how you came to be in the MBA program” and I can generally work in something about my plans for career and how that fits with husband’s plans for career.

      • a.

        Please casually mention your husband! I really appreciate it when guys do that with me. I have one coworker who, when I saw him, I was all “Yes, please!”–but within the first two minutes of us talking, he worked his wife into the conversation, and the three of us have proceeded to have a lovely, 100% platonic friendship including lots of pleasant cook-outs and jaunts to parks. Clarity is good.

        • Lynnet

          It’s great to hear that men do this too! I was somewhat worried it might be a NGDGTC violation in some way.

          • anon

            I’ve actually had that happen a few times. I must drool or something when I meet a good-looking guy, so he hurries to work the wife into the conversation.

      • OP

        I wear a diamond solitaire and a simple platinum wedding band – definitely a traditional ring. Re: the conversation about the summer, I ended up saying “We just moved to the area and want to explore the city” but only afterwards did it occur to me that I didn’t actually say “my husband”. At the time, I didn’t suspect that he was hitting on me so it didn’t occur to me to actually say husband. Maybe he thought “we” meant a roommate or something? Thanks for the advice everyone!

        • Ellen

          Hello? MEN are SO dumb!

          I just want to find a SMART and normal lawyer who wants to MARRY me. I do NOT think any exist that are realy that NORMAL.

      • Ginnie

        Not sure what you’re talking about. My default wedding band is plain gold (yellow, although white flies, too). Diamond solitaire is an engagement ring. Anything else could be either, or nothing, but leaves more room for ambiguity. (I am fine with all — actually anti-engagement ring, and have a very nontraditional wedding ring. Not passing judgment as to what is/n’t okay.)

        • Ashley

          I was just responding to the OP’s confusion. She said that she wears a wedding ring, so my comment was that if it isn’t “traditional” diamond solitaire e-ring + wedding band, maybe the guys didn’t realize it was a wedding ring. Esp. if she’s in the south, that might be an issue. I saw more types of stones/settings when I lived in CA than I do now that I’m back in Texas.

          • Circe

            I thought *anything* on left hand ring finger was assumed to be a wedding ring!

    • PharmaGirl

      He asked what you are doing this summer… this gives you an easy opportunity to mention your husband. “My husband and I are planning to do lots of golfing / escaping to the beach / bicycling / tennis / whatever.”

      Men, especially younger men, do not always notice rings. Can’t say I did either when I was a younger, single gal.

    • Legally Brunette

      This has happened to me to0 – I think some guys are not very observant about wedding rings and don’t make a habit of noticing them one way or the other. Also, if you (or the guy) is young, he might just assume that you’re still single.

      Incidentally, this is exactly why my husband insisted that he buy me an engagement ring, even though I really didn’t care one way or the other – but obviously some guys still don’t get it. You might also consider that he knows that you’re married and is hitting on you anyway – some guys are sketch that way.

    • Bluejay

      Agree with those who said to casually mention your husband. I would reply to his email with something like, “yep, I’ll be in class, and I’m excited to celebrate the end of the year at happy hour! My husband will be joining us and he’s looking forward to meeting my classmates.”

    • CA Atty

      Some guys really don’t. In fact, when I was in law school a bunch of guys came to the realization they did have to start looking at women’s hands in bars and I saw on fb just last week or so that a guy in the class behind mine was ruing that he’d hit on a married woman and coming to the realization that he’s going to have to start checking for rings. And he’s 30, so, not very aware.

      • Ruby

        Marginally funny story about this- happened to me dancing about few years ago- sometimes I don’t wear any jewelery if I’ll be dancing really hard (aerobic-like) with tricks and things- don’t want anything to get caught. Never wear the diamond, sometimes not even the band. A guy mid-song said something physically complementary and indicated interest, nothing sleazy, but mid-song there was no non-awkard way to mention husband. And after song the incident had passed so I ran away. Not the most impressive handling, but I basically avoided dancing with said guy again for the next several months to a year as I just didn’t have a smooth way to shore it up. Although I would see him regularly as he’s in my usual social dance circles. Fast forward, he got a girlfriend who looks a lot like me! I am happy for him. Friends at the studio were always laughing about it pointing her out to me. I had been curious to meet her ever since and like to study her just to see ‘do I really look like this person?’ and finally a few weeks ago was out (not dancing too pregnant) at a dance event and my friend awkwardly introduced us so we sat and chatted. She is nice though totally different lifestyle (waitress, up late etc.); husband did not think she looks so much like me. Anyway, probably not the most interesting story, but strangely intrigued me. Did dance with guy last summer few times after the girlfriend was clear presence, but I’ve had the watermelon going for months now anyway so sadly immobile for another few months regardless. Prefer to nip things in bud asap but not always possible!

  3. Font Vent

    I’m an attorney. I just received a formal letter from a state administrative board investigating my client’s case. The letter is to inform us that they need additional information from both parties and contains two official requests for information. The email sending this, the letter attached, and the formal requests were all written in COMIC SANS!!!!!!!!!!! I have to forward this to my client and assure her that they are investigating her claims seriously – – – per the letter written in comic sans. Ugh.

  4. do boudoir!

    There was a poster in the weekend thread asking about boudoir photos, but I replied too late I believe. So, in answer to your question, my husband is an amateur photographer, but he would love to get into photography as a side business. He has a good camera and a studio light kit. We went to a hotel for a Valentine’s Day celebration, he set up the studio lights, and we shot in different outfits for the whole evening. I did fancy hair and make-up, and I made some feather/jeweled hair pieces to match several outfits. We had a WONDERFUL time, and the pictures turned out beautifully! I highly recommend shooting together, even if your SO is not a pro photographer. You can take some pretty good pictures with most point-and-shoot cameras these days! I’ve told several close friends about our shoot, and several mentioned that they’d been thinking about doing it, asking for tips, wanting to borrow the hair pieces, etc. etc.

    • recently hitched

      I was the one that asked about that, and I did not see it in the weekend thread. Thank you for reposting here!

      • do boudoir!

        You’re welcome, let me know if you have any other questions, I’ve become quite the advocate for doing it.

    • Flamingo

      I looked into these sessions over the weekend after reading the OPs questions. I loved some of the photo shoots, but the idea of pictures of me being “out there” freaks me out (even if these are just for my SO). Maybe I could do a more tame one to start with.

      • do boudoir!

        I was the same way for a long time, and actually, most of the pictures were tame enough to send to my close girlfriends. Most of the reactions were “sassy!” vs. “inappropriate”. Most of the outfits I chose actually cover more than my swim suit, so they are only risque by the sheer fact that they are obviously ling3ri3. We didn’t print the pictures, they’re just stored on the computer or in a password protected, unlisted gallery that we own. And, the ones in the secured gallery are the ones I sent to my close girlfriends, so even if they got out into the world, it wouldn’t ruin me. I’ve definitely gotten more comfortable over the years, especially now that I’m married, but in the beginning of our relationship, I refused anything remotely scandalous being immortalized by a picture!

  5. Anne Shirley

    What to wear over a sleeveless cocktail dress so I don’t freeze on the way to/from. Factors: no coat check, want to keep in under $100, wearing dark blue sequins with black shoes/bag.

  6. Lynnet

    Ok, so I’m trying to expand my wardrobe since I’m starting a new job at a “conservative business casual” office. It’s been a while since I’ve had an office job, so before this my office wear consisted of 3 suits, 2 gray (1 pant, 1 skirt), 1 light brown (pant). I have now bought:

    1. navy pinstripe blazer, 1 button, on sale at express
    2. white dress pants, also on sale at express
    3. chocolate brown panel skirt (so it flares out at the bottom a bit), hits about 1 in below the knee. This is the length I’m most comfortable with, but I’m afraid it makes me look rather Amish.

    I have no idea what to wear any of these things with. Well, the navy blazer and white pants match, but I’m not sure I’m ever going to have the courage to wear the white pants outside the house. I have blouses to match anything, but I have no idea when it comes to matching bottoms and blazers or cardigans.

    What colors go with navy? Can I pair the navy with any of the bottoms I own? Is an inch below the knee too long for a professional skirt? What color jackets can I pair with a brown? What other basics do I really need? Should I just give up on trying to cloth myself at all?

    • Ru

      Calm down, yo, I’m here and TCFKAG will help. More info needed: what color is your skin and hair?

      But, in general, read on:
      1. Navy: navy goes with everything except black, unless your navy has more blue than black in it. All the colors you feel awkward wearing with black go with navy (orange, yellow, lime green, bright pinks, etc). The navy jacket can go with your browns and grays.
      2. 1″ below the knee skirt: depends on your height, and you thigh/calf ratio. It should be ok but if you feel it looks Amish and want to keep the length, stick with heels. Or get it hemmed.
      3. Brown: Same rules as navy. And you can wear it with navy.
      4. Wear the white pants. They look uber sophisticated. Seriously. With any color. You are so fashion-forward, homegurl.
      5. Other basics: non-black shoes, shells/tops/blouses in different color and a piece of jewelry that makes you feel confident (earrings, ring, bracelet, watch, belly ring, WHATEVER).
      6. I never thought I’d say this but I’d say pink goes with everything. Huh, go figure.

      • Lynnet

        I’m white with (I think) pink toned skin, hair is kind of a mousy brown, but I sometimes dye it a few shades either darker or redder. I’m about 5’5′, and my calves and ankles look depressingly like my grandmother’s (I’m 26). Hence the fact that I own mostly pants.

        I will take any and all clothing advice. I tend to know what I like when someone else is wearing it, but have no idea what I’d need to buy to achieve the same look. Sometimes I wish I could just have this website be my Stacy and Clinton and put together a wardrobe for me.

        • TCFKAG

          Hi dear. I’m very busy at work today (yay!) But I will come back to give my input later.

          First thought — one thing I like that Stacy and Clinton do is they say, don’t focus on trends focus on what fits. You need to focus on the fits that make you feel comfortable and happy. Then from there add color and pattern. I would say I am of similar skin tone to you and my best colors are: pinks (but only generally if I wear a contrasting necklace or something to break up the pink explosion), purples (seriously seriously), blues, greens, etc. I also love polka dots because its like the entry level print.

          As far as the ankle and calves thing — I think that’s less about the skirt/pant divide and more about the shoes. Are you wearing shoes that flatter your legs? Not necessarily high heels but at least something that streches your ankle and doesn’t hit right at the widest point? That’s kind of key.

        • Ru

          Baby steps. You have to take time to figure out what you like. I might think you’d look amazing in some berry colored blouses but you might hate berry colored blouses. But, seriously, I think berries, teals and very staid patterns might work for you. And a really saturated green. Pick your favorite color and find an iteration of it that works for your skin coloring.

          • Lynnet

            All of my blouses are berry, so you’re right about that. :) I’ve actually been trying to get away from berries and purples a little bit because I own so many of them. So I’m going to take the teal suggestion, and the blue and green suggestion from TCFKG, above and run with them.

            You’ve also both convinced me that I need to focus on shoes as my next big basic purchase. I’ve been wearing the same two pairs of high heels for everything since I started law school 4 years ago. I think I’ll feel a lot better about my legs once I’m wearing shoes that flatter them, and that will open up whole new vistas of skirt opportunities.

            Thank you so much for all the advice! I feel less flaily already.

          • Bonnie

            Shoes can definitely change the outfit. Start off with a nude heel. Since you like berry colors, how about adding a berry blazer to your wardrobe? It would work with all of the bottoms you listed.

    • LilyB

      I don’t think white pants (or skirts or dresses) are appropriate for “conservative business casual.”

      • a passion for fashion

        really? I mean, i wouldnt wear them in March, but how would a neutral color not be conservative?

        White is wonderful in the summer months and its totally business appropriate and can look very sophisticated when worn well.

        Crisp white slacks or a pleated white skirt — lovely in summer. And can be paired with just about anything — navy, black, yellow, tan . . . .

    • mamabear

      1) Navy is a neural and goes with everything. I particularly like it with cream, and any blue or green hue, but really you can wear it with anything. However, to my eye, it would not be great with a brown skirt. Unless you’re putting it together with a lot of pattern/color/accessories flair, I think it might just look like you got dressed in the dark.

      2) The midi lenght is trending right now, so a skirt that hits below the knee – particuarly if it’s a slightly fuller skirt – is fine and on-trend

      • Ginnie

        I actually like navy and brown, but maybe this is because I once read a Seventeen magazine saying that this was the cool combination of whatever season it was.

        • TCFKAG

          Until I bought grey shoes, the only shoes I wore with my navy suit were brown, because my black shoes gave me the willies with it. So I’m totally down with navy and brown!

          • mamabear

            Just to make my own point clear – I am down with brown leather with navy. I love that look. I’m just not down with a pinstriped navy blazer worn with a fuller brown skirt. That looks too accidental when I imagine it.

    • KM

      Your recent purchases sound great. If you were looking to add anything else to your wardrobe I’d add the following:

      (1) a gray sheath dress, it goes with everything (i.e. black, brown, or navy). I saw a lovely Anne Klein gray shift dress at TJ Maxx last week that would be perfect.

      (2) a pair of nude for you heels because they go with everything (especially if you are like me and cannot for the life of you determine whether the suit you just bought is black or navy).

      (3) some colorful cardigans (I really like the ones by Lands End Canvas and the Merona ones from Target).

      • Lynnet

        Thanks for the thoughts! I actually do have a grey sheath dress, I just always forget about it. I need to pull it out and assess. And I definitely need to work on my cardigan collection.

  7. Cookies and Wine

    I’m sure it is right in front of me and I am just not seeing it, but can anyone point me to the search function on this site? I thought it used to be on the right under the email sign-up, but now I can’t find it anywhere. Thanks!

    • Godzilla

      It’s gone. Much easier to type the website name and your search terms into a search engine.

    • momentsofabsurdity

      I don’t know where that search function is but go to google and type in

      site:corporette.com SEARCH TERMS HERE

      and insert your search terms and you’ll be able to find almost anything.

  8. HippieEsq

    Can one wear a skinny belt if you are above a size 12? I am inclined to say no.

    I am a 16 and cannot imagine trying to wear this.

    • Ru

      Yes, someone who is above a size 12 can wear a skinny belt. It has nothing to do with size but body proportion. If she’s apple-shaped but her stomach is balanced by her boobs, then I’d say a skinny belt is a great way to create a waist, just higher up. Some women who are smaller than size 12 can’t pull it off because of body proportion. And some who is really, really skinny, I’d say the belt belongs on her hips to give that hint of an hourglass – you just take the belt and make it work for your body.

      • Coalea

        I’m larger than a size 12 and apple shaped. I love the look of belts, especially over cardigans. However, every time I’ve tried this, it has been an epic failure. Not sure if it’s a proportion issue, an overall size issue, or some combination of both. I’ve just added belts to my list of “looks great on others; too bad it doesn’t work on me.”

        • Ru

          It could be the evil cardigan. I have really tiny shoulders (bra straps and cardigans and purses will not stay put on my shoulders) and somehow, regular cardigans would make me look like a box. Terrible. When I was an apple-ish size 14, I FINALLY discovered waterfall cardigans, which I still looked terrible in but with a belt, I looked great and put-together.

      • PharmaGirl

        She may be a size 12 (I have no idea) but she has a clearly defined waist and is quite thin in the middle so can easily pull off any kind of belt. The apples among us, even if smaller than a 12… not so much.

    • zora

      Here’s a curvy outfit blogger who does some a-dor-a-ble things w/ skinny belts:

      www [dot] hemsforher [dot] com/2012/04/how-to-wear-little-white-dress-aka.html

    • Catelyn

      As a pear-shaped size 14 I wear belts a lot, skinny or otherwise. I just never wear them at my hips, since that would emphasize the largest part of me. They’re nice over cardigans, dresses, or bigger (not fitted, I mean) tops to nip you in at the waist. They’re like wearing a fitted blazer over something to structure it more.

    • Bluejay

      Um, yes. If you weren’t a 16 I’d slap you for even suggesting otherwise, but since you are, I’ll say that as a fellow size 16, skinny belts make up an integral part of my wardrobe and I am wearing one right now.

      • HippieEsq

        Slap away! I guess I am carrying too much weight in my midsection compared to the rest of you to pull these off. I worry the belt will end up accentuating the fact that there is, well, fat under the belt. Maybe after I have this baby, I will try it. Stay tuned. Update in probably 12 months. (baby due in 5, will lose baby weight by time baby is 6 months old hopefully)

        • ER

          It’s probably just your shape, not your size. I’m a size 2/4 and belts, especially skinny belts, look terrible on me – I could have written your posts. Also, I’m very flat on top . So when I wear pants, I try to wear a top that I can leave untucked (for example, a sweater). For tops I must tuck in, I only wear them with a skirt and then I wear my most padded bra possible. I haven’t worn a belt in years.

        • Bluejay

          No, I’m apple-shaped. I think it might be hard if you’re pregnant, but I actually like having a belt on my apple-shaped self because it accentuates the narrowest part of my waist, which otherwise tends to disappear.

          • HippieEsq

            This whole thing is intriguing to me. My pregnancy has caused my extreme hourglass shape to become more apple-shaped. Therefore, I should try one of these belts. I will check the thrift store or try on in-store before committing. I am just having a hard time imagining it doing much.

            However, I always used to choose blouses and shirts that are nipped at the waist b/c that was a good feature of mine. How that I have NO waist, it might be time to expand fashion horizons while my own self is also “expanding.” LOL!

  9. AK

    Somebody had a great rec here for pantyhose for Asian NC45 skin tone. Can any of you think of what brand and shade it is?

  10. karenpadi

    Are any Bay Area c o r p * e t * s also going to Celebration of Justice dinner/auction on Thursday?

    I need help with what to wear. I changed sizes recently (and not in a good way) and the only thing I have that fits is a black sheath. How do I make it not-c*tail? I’m thinking about trying to find a 3/4 sleeved jacket to wear over the dress. Any suggestions?

    One more (unrelated) question for those who invest through Vanguard: have you ever purchased one of their financial plans? Were you happy with the service and consultation? Was it worth the $250?

    • CA lawyer

      A jacket sounds great. Maybe if Banana Republic is having one of its regular evening sales this week, you could stop by?

      Have fun! I wish I was going.

  11. TCFKAG

    So..I have to get back to work now. But I had a job interview today. So keep your fingers crossed for me! Yay!!

  12. Anon for this

    Threadjack: I know not everyone on this blog is “senior” and those without teenagers/experience with this issue may want to skip over this, but I could really use some advice from the hive. My son is now 18 (as of past month) and has recently taken up smoking pot. We think this is due to the fact that he hasn’t had many friends in high school (he has a learning disability and struggles with academic stuff), isn’t on a sports team, and has sort of been a bit of a loner (not of his choice). Now he has some friends to hang out with, but they are stoners. Most are good kids (i.e. smart and going to good colleges in the fall), but my son has always teetered on the edge of good/bad behavior, so we are really upset by this latest development. It’s causing huge friction at home-the more we try to control his behavior, the more he rebels. Right now, he has no driving privileges, no phone/gym privileges. He agreed to go to outpatient rehab but says he won’t cooperate and doesn’t plan to stop smoking entirely. He thinks his social usage is fine. We don’t agree. He has been caught smoking 1x in our house (with younger brother at home at time) and skipped classes one time and was caught by babysitter in home with friend, “supplies” and “equipment”. Today, he “borrowed” car key from his brother and went home during free period. I caught him there and confronted him with rule breaking (e.g. he was not supposed to drive the car, he had agreed not to come home during the day). We see a child psychologist with him regularly (son suffers from anxiety and occasional depression on top of learning disability issues). The psychologist has recommended the outpatient rehab, but discussion of major issues has precluded resolution of “minor” issues (e.g. consequences for failing to follow house rules). At this point, hubby and I are thinking that perhaps we should send son off to “wilderness program” for troubled teens. Child psychologist (with 30 years experience) has no prior experience with these programs. Also, son is admitted to college and due to attend as of end of August. Does anyone have any experience with this type of situation? Should we ride things out until the end of August-trying to enforce rules and restricting privileges all the way up until the day he leaves for college? Should we try to get him to agree (at 18, I don’t think we can send him against his will) to wilderness program? Would it be completely irrational to sublet an apartment for him locally until he leaves for college? This is tearing up our family, causing major career stress for hubby and me, but I don’t want to make things worse by completely pushing son out of family environment and into (possibly more evil) influences, but I’m having a very hard time getting through each day when a major crisis erupts just about every 48 hours. Thoughts from the experienced members of the hive (either parenting a teenager, or familiar with similar circumstance) welcome. References to other websites/resources would also be very welcome. I realize this is not the most appropriate forum, but since folks here seem to have a wide variety of knowledge, I thought I’d ask. I know we are not the first people in the world to have this problem. Thanks in advance.

    • Blonde Lawyer

      A former coworker dealt with something similar with her teenage stepson. She would have put up with more of his behaviors if they weren’t setting a bad example for her toddler daughter. He was not doing as well academically as your son so he ended up doing job corps. If you don’t get much help from readers here and you are interested, I will share your email address with her and maybe she could provide some advice.

      • Geezer-e t t e

        As a higher ed administrator who has dealt with a LOT of 18 year old males, please start treating your son as if he’s already off at college. No curfews, grounding, etc. If he’s not already doing his own laundry, changing sheets, etc., start that immediately. I would not, however, rent him an apartment. Make a firm rule about not smoking in the house, and let him know he will bear any consequences of getting caught with an illegal substance outside the house. Think about whether he is sufficiently mature to handle college. Many, many 18 year old males are not and would benefit from a year or two of work or military service. I’ve seen way too many who spend their first semester (or even two semesters) playing video games and missing classes and wrecking their GPAs forever.

        • OP

          Agree, but he won’t consider a gap year, community college or the military. We have told him that he can do the 4 year college thing but he has one semester to prove he’s capable. If he fails classes, cannot maintain a C average, we can’t continue to make a $50K/year investment in his education.

          • anon for this

            Won’t the admissions process determine whether or not he is “capable?” You might find he does better at a community college than he ever did in high school. High school is brutal for kids who don’t think like teacher’s expect/demand them too. Its too bad he’s already in his Sr. year because its too late to be proactive.

        • Bonnie

          If he’s using pot, do not let him go into the military. Servicemembers have to submit to routine drug tests and are court-martialed for drug use alone. He’s be guaranteed a discharge and a conviction.

        • yes to this

          Parent of a 21 yo and 19 yo (one each sex) and university prof. We started leting our son do things in high school that we knew he would do (with or without our knowledge) in 6 months (e.g. co-ed sleepovers, ski trips) based on our experience with older kid. Agree with no curfews or grounding but think that it is risky to let him have the auto if he doesn’t live by the rules.

          I know that your son got into a $50K a year school, but agree with geezer that it’s likely that he will crash-and-burn in freshman year. Unless he’s just doing this to rebel now and to protest being in high school, it’s almost a forgone conclustion. I think $50K is a lot to waste on the small chance of success but that’s your call.

          No, I don’t think you could force him to go to an adventure camp…he might just run away and you risk permenant damage to your relationship.

          Does he have any passions? Volunteer work, writing, hobbies? Try to get him to connect life now with a life he builds for himself, whether or not he goes to college.

          I assume that the college needs him to graduate to actually enroll in August. Keep him safe as you can until then and protect your other kids. That’s the best you can do.

    • Bluejay

      For another perspective… I smoked a sh!tload of pot in high school and college, went to Ivies, and am a successful attorney. My mom’s only rule was no smoking in the house. I don’t smoke any more because I sort of outgrew it once I could legally drink, and also because in my current job I have to obey all laws. I’m hardly alone – see, e.g., the last 3 presidents of the United States.

      So perhaps you should do some google searches for information on why the anti-pot hysteria is overblown and how people who use marijuana end up being just as successful as anyone else. Destroying your relationship with your son over something this trivial is going to be way worse for him and his life trajectory than a little weed is. Relax, and tell him that so long as his grades aren’t suffering and he’s not taking any needless risks (like driving under the influence), you’ll look the other way.

      • Anonny

        I agree with a lot of what Bluejay said. There are definitely worse things that your son could be getting into. My mom chose to accept the fact that things like this may happen and made a few absolute rules: 1) do not let her find us doing it 2) do not drive under the influence (even if this means waking her up in the middle of the night for a ride) 3) do not get in trouble at school or by the law. These seem like obvious things, but when you sit down and have a discussion like this with your kid you might find that your relationship with him/her grows more and they might trust you more in return. It might be better to prepare yourself and your son this way seeing as he is going to college soon and you won’t be able to control his actions while he is away.

        Also, it could be a phase that he goes through and as soon as he finds other friends (at college or elsewhere) he could grow out of it.

        • a.

          Yes yes yes. Pot is not meth. I would say follow these ladies’ advice, along with the above higher ed administrator’s, and pick your battles.

      • Equity's Darling

        Ditto, though only in university, not in high school.

        But I did go to school in a province where pot was de facto decriminalized, so I think that changes it a little bit.

        Plus, if he’s leaving for university in September, it’s not like he’s going to stop once he moves away, so this is really a futile battle.

      • NOLA

        And another perspective… One of my colleagues, in his early 60s right now, said that he had to give up smoking pot because he was experiencing memory loss. He still struggles with it and it sometimes drives us crazy because he forgets things that we feel like we’ve covered over and over. In the longer term, it could do harm.

      • sharpness

        I agree – I used to smoke TONS of pot (I think every day from age 16 to age 21 or so…it only really stopped when I went to law school and HAD to study every day) and now I smoke a more manageable amount (2-4 times a week) and I am a successful attorney as well. If anyone told me I had to go to outpatient rehab I would have laughed in his face. And there are plenty of successful, intelligent, otherwise law-abiding citizens who occasionally (or more than occasionally) get high. I agree that you need to set rules and boundaries, but you need to be reasonable. Fact is, smoking pot is a totally normal thing for an 18 year old to do, and the complete prohibition is backfiring in that your son is completely rebelling and ignoring you, but if you set more lax rules he might follow them. Like right now, you want him to be a 0; he’s rebelling and being a 10; but maybe you could compromise and have him be a 5.

        What I think are reasonable rules are: no smoking in the house; no smoking/mentioning in front of his little brother; keeping his “equipment” well-hidden so his little brother doesn’t find it; keep his grades up; and no driving under the influence or getting into cars with people who smoke – offer to pick him up, no questions asked, or give him money for taxis (but he has to show receipts or else TRUST ME he will just use the money to buy more drugs). You are basically saying to him, you are an adult and I trust you, but you also can’t throw it in my face and you have to be safe. Hopefully he will be reasonable as well.

      • OP

        His grades are suffering. His last report card-highest grade was less than an 80, despite non-rigorous classes and SAT’s of 560/580. He’s not dumb. Also, he did take a risk in driving friends home after being caught smoking in our house (had keys and babysitter did not stop him). Also had incident last year where he was selling pot, but he claims he’s done with that. Who knows. So, I would say this is more than harmless social activity. He has no job, no sports, no real school work to speak of, and this behavior seems to set bad example and cause significant friction with parents and younger sibs.

        • Bluejay

          Are you sure his grades aren’t sinking because of senioritis? Correlation is not causation (although senioritis can cause pot smoking too…).

          I’d focus on the grades and the driving, not the smoking itself. Those are real problems. Casual pot use isn’t any more dangerous than casual alcohol use.

        • new york associate

          But he’s admitted into college! My grades suffered during my senior spring too. I really think that the grades are not a hill to die on. (The driving, however, might be.)

        • momentsofabsurdity

          Rather than focusing on the pot, I would focus on the grades and lack of activities. I definitely would not take away privileges like the gym which is a healthy and productive outlet.

          I’d grab a catalog from your local recreation department, and a summer school catalog from your local community college. Make the (totally reasonable) rule that anyone living in your house cannot spend the majority of their time sitting on their butt. He needs to pick one “fun” activity or class to get involved in. He also needs to come up with something to do this summer, like a job or class.

          Relax the rules a bit if you do plan on having him go off to college – though I might suggest to him that your paying for college next year is based on him showing you he deserves it this year, and that you aren’t going to spend money sending him to college if he doesn’t plan to get involved and work at school. Make the rules things a normal teenager will follow and designed to get him to stay busy. No job, no sports, no schoolwork – I’d be doing drugs too. What else in his life could he be involved with? Does he like computers — could he take a programming class for fun? What about cooking? Is there a rec program offered this summer that does community service? In other words, a busy kid is usually a happy kid, and a happy kid usually, while they may partake socially, is not at serious risk for addiction issues.

          Set the basic guidelines: When you are driving/in the house/around your siblings, you are expected to be sober. No drugs or paraphenelia in the house – put it someplace else. We don’t think smoking is a good idea, and here’s what can happen if you get caught (law trouble, rescinded college admission, etc), and exponentially so if you are dealing. But, you’re an adult and can make your own choices. If you get in trouble with the law, you are on your own. We are not bailing you out or paying for your lawyer. You are expected to maintain a 3.0 average (or whatever, based on his abilities). You are expected to do something besides sit on your butt all day.

          These are completely manageable expectations for a kid going off to college. If it’s just pot and nothing more serious, I wouldn’t consider it “evil.” Most kids are experimenting with weed and alcohol around his age.

          • Stepmom

            This. If he were getting straight As and had gotten into an Ivy League school, I’d be inclined to let him be. But he’s not. So now he has to play by your rules, which I humbly suggest be:

            * in our house, we make the rules. No pot.
            * you do your own laundry (including sheets and towels)
            * room inspection weekly (give him a specific list of no more than 10 items to be done each week)
            * you must do something productive with your summer: either summer school or work.
            * tell him specifically what the consequences will be if he fails any of the above.
            * then impose those consequences.

            It might not prevent him from smoking pot, but it will: (1) make sure that if he does smoke, he’s also doing constructive things, and (2) telegraph your values.

        • fresh jd

          Agree with Geezer-e t t e above and with Bluejay to a certain extent (you have to ascertain whether this is a teenage rebellion phase he can work his way out of, or whether this is the start of a downhill trajectory). Also, why do you have to pay for his college education if he hasn’t proven that he is mature enough to handle the responsibility of going to an expensive private university? Once he reaches majority age, he can find work and do as he pleases without falling back on your resources to take advantage of. If he wants them, there have to be conditions to be met for the continued financial/familial support.

      • N.

        Count me in as another former pothead who smoked socially in high school and college, always made good grades, and eventually outgrew it when the hassle of actually procuring it became more trouble than it was worth. I know it must be really difficult to try to judge whether this is the beginning of a much more troublesome path, but I would urge you to consider whether that’s necessarily the case. Frankly, I think my saturday nights smoking pot and eating chips with my nerdy circle of friends were probably much less dangerous than the underage drinking scene.

    • momentsofabsurdity

      Please do not send your son to a wilderness program for troubled teens. These programs have little governmental oversight, make big claims to parents with little data backing them up, and many have been found to partake in abusive practices.

      • Bluejay

        Also, when I was 18 I voluntarily went on an Outward Bound course (basically extended mountaineering trip – not for “troubled” teens) and of course people brought weed. What else are you supposed to do around a campfire at 12,000 feet?

      • CA Atty

        Another perspective on that, one of my friends in high school went to one and it changed his life. He went away a ne’er do well who was probably going to end up in jail for dealing (like another of our friends) and came back a self-sufficient young man who graduated from a top college and has a wonderful engineering job.

      • TCFKAG

        You should watch a movie made in Boot Camp with Mila Kunis (and others.) I have no idea how accurate it was, but it creeped me out enough to be turned off from those types of camps forever.

      • BigLaw Optimist

        I’m with moments, but for an additional reason — these programs aren’t typically for kids who are smoking pot and occasionally cutting class. My girlfriend has worked at several of these camps (all types, all locations– she was a director at one for a little while) and she calls them camps for “f-ed up adolescents,” i.e., the kids who cannot stay in a classroom for more than 20 minutes without biting someone or pitching a fit or trying to hurt the teacher, not a kid who is college bound, smokes a bit of pot, and has senioritis (they’re more for someone the lines of CA Atty’s friend).

        I agree with you that if it’s affecting his grades and is setting a bad example for his brother, something needs to be done, I just don’t think this camp is the solution. I’ll add that the lack of governmental oversight is a lot of the reason my girlfriend is no longer working there … that and a lot of the camps are focused on your money, not on the results or well-being of the kids.

        • Flamingo

          Agree with this. Obviously this is an issue for your family, but I’m afraid the camp would be way too extreme and maybe even make the problem bigger. I agree with the other posters to pick your battles and set certain expectations: 1) No smoking or paraphernalia in the house 2) Safety is first at all times, especially if you are driving. 3) You will be responsible if you get caught using or dealing.

          As a disclaimer, I don’t have kids. I know people in your son’s situation and the outcomes they had span a WIDE range (some are successful attorneys and some dropped out first semester of college). This makes me think that it’s not about the pot itself, but about the other expectations parents are setting at home or other factors. My very best wishes to you.

          One last thought – how is he getting money for the habit?

      • Jo March

        This. Many of those programs are a case of the cure being worse than the disease.

    • Anon

      What a difficult situation. No clue what I’d do in your situation, other than I suspect my husband would kick our children out of the house after seeing what drugs did to his family. Have you read “A Beautiful Boy” by David Sheff? If I’m recalling correctly, rehab had the opposite of the desire effect on his son, as once in rehab, he made friends with people who used worse drugs than he did, and then he wanted to try them. I have heard equally awful things about the wilderness programs. That said, what can you do? You have set rules, he breaks them, and your punishments seem to have no consequence. I think you’d be doing your best to keep doing what you are doing, and continue to tell him what you expect of him. At least that gives him some guidance, even if he won’t follow it right now.

    • anon

      My experience may not be anything like yours, but my son started smoking pot when he was 17. He got caught due to the smell on his clothes, promised to stop, took a couple of drug tests at home that were negative, and we thought he was over it. No. He ended up doing a lot of drugs, and almost died 6 months ago due to an overdose of oxycontin mixed with everclear. I feel so horrible that all of this was going on and I was completely oblivious. He is in outpatient re-hab now, counseling twice a week, weekly random drug tests, AA every day, and he seems to be doing well. But who knows, it’s likely he will relapse, if you look at the statistics. He’s only 19, and he has problems with his vision due to all the LSD he took (HPPD), hopefully that will get better with time, but he had to drop out of college for now. Now, I just want him to be clean and sober, and not die. Funny how your expectations change. I used to hope he would be a lawyer or a history professor. Now I just don’t want him to die, or end up with permanent brain damage.

      I would recommend that you educate him on the very real dangers of drug use. Even pot has some serious side effects, the biggest one in our state being that you can go to jail if you’re caught. My son told me he did not realize what LSD could do to his brain, he didn’t understand what ecstasy and some of the other newer designer drugs could do. I thought they learned all of that in school, and I thought he was too smart to ever do any of it. I was wrong. You might check and see what’s popular in your area, chances are he’s tried it. I recommend you find a counselor who specializes in adolescent drug use. I found one through our local chapter of Parents Helping Parents, you might have something similar in your area. Take it seriously. I tried to tell myself that my son was probably just smoking pot, but it’s not that big a deal. It is, though. At that age, with some of the other problems your son is having, it’s unlikely he is just smoking pot. You really don’t want to get that call from the ER.

      Personally, I would not do the wilderness program until you figure out how bad his drug problem is. If he truly is just an occasional pot smoker, maybe it would do him some good. If he’s got a real problem, he needs more intensive rehab, and he won’t get that through a wilderness program. Just my opinion, you know your son better than anyone else.

      • anon

        Also, wanted to second someone else’s comment about in-patient rehab. If you end up having to go that route, make sure you find a good place. My nephew went to one in my state years ago, and we later found out half the counselors were dealing drugs. You really need to investigate before sending someone to an in-patient center. There’s not one in my state that I would use, I would have to send mine out of state. For now, his out-patient seems to be working, but if he relapses, we’ll go to in-patient.

      • Bluejay

        “Even pot has some serious side effects, the biggest one in our state being that you can go to jail if you’re caught.”

        Without commenting on your other points, I just want to point out that this is not a danger of pot. This is a danger caused by bad policy and bad laws.

        Sorry, but I am pretty passionate about ending the drug war and I couldn’t let this slip by.

        • anon

          Whether you disagree with the policy is irrelevant, in our state, possession of any amount of pot is a felony. Teenagers need to understand the laws in their state, which is my point. My son actually thought possession of small amounts was a misdemeanor, well, not in our state. It’s a felony. And the potential of going to jail is in fact a real possibility if you use pot in our state.

        • mamabear

          Agree with anon. Whether you think the law is just or not, it’s still the law, and I would not condone any child of mine doing something illegal.

        • cfm

          Bluejay, its obvious you have an opinion on this, but come on. That is, currently in most states, a danger of pot. Just because you think it shouldn’t be doesn’t mean it isn’t.

          It’s like saying that getting arrested for drinking and driving is not a danger of drinking and driving, its a danger caused by policy and laws.

          A law has serious consequences for a young person who runs breaks it.

          • sharpness

            Actually, I think currently in most states, simple possession of a small amount of marijuana is not a jailable offense. I could be wrong. But I don’t think I am.

            Someone once said about my drug use, But what if you get caught??? I mean, come on. I’m a young woman smoking in my apartment. Who’s going to catch me? My 97 year old neighbor? My main concern w/r/t my drug use is the munchies and how much weight I’m gaining…not the police banging down my door.

          • cc

            it might not be jailable, be we increasingly are in a society where it is really hard to overcome things on your record.

        • GovtMom

          +1.

          You can disagree with the laws and lobby to change them. But it is irresponsible, IMO, to fail to recognize the very real repercussions of violating those laws.

    • Been there

      I was just taking a quick break and saw this. No, you’re not alone— we dealt with a similar issue when my SS was a freshman in high school. A freshman! I was blindsided (I know better now). He had trouble finding his people, and then all of the sudden was hanging around with a few guys and actually looking forward to going to school. Come to find out (how we found out is another story) he was so excited to go to school because he’d meet these kids at a park and smoke up with them before class. It was devastating.
      So you are not alone— know that. I know how wrenching this is for you. You are a good parent trying to do the right thing. Based on what you’ve written, I’d try to keep him at home and keep trying to enforce your rules. But I’d also reduce the number of rules to a crucial core of the two or three you absolutely insist on, otherwise you will be driven mad by constant infractions. I think he’s too old for an outward-bound program to have a diversionary effect, and you could end up losing your mind, not mention some bucks, if he decides to blow it off and leave. Getting him his own place also seems like a bad idea; for better or worse, he’s engaging in attention-seeking behavior, and you moving him out will only reinforce the feelings that drive that need for attention, even negative attention, from you.
      One thing that helped us— our local police dept had some family crisis / youth intervention counselors who were excellent resources and much more practical and in-touch than the family therapist.
      Good luck to you.

    • Anon for this...

      You mention that he has some history of depression…have you considered that he might be “self-medicating”? Maybe a psychologist could help…

    • Lynnet

      I’m 26, so I don’t feel all that qualified. However, I’m not all that far from 18 myself and while I did not and have not ever smoked pot, many of my friends and family members did, and I have had the “privilege” of seeing a lot of different responses to it.

      So, just a couple of things to think about:
      1. He’s going to college in August, and no matter what you do now, you’re not going to be able to stop him from smoking pot when he gets there. So realistically, at issue here is his pot use for the next 3 months.
      2. If it were me, I would be most concerned about making sure that the really destructive behaviors (smoking around younger siblings, driving under the influence, and cutting class) end. In the long run, smoking pot with friends in a safe environment on Friday nights isn’t going to ruin his life, these behaviors are much more worrying.
      3. Please, please, make sure he knows how to avoid getting into the justice system. Again, smoking itself isn’t going to ruin his life, a conviction for possession would have serious, long term, negative consequences.
      4. In three months, he’s going to be basically an independent adult. The people I knew whose parents had given them the least freedom as teenagers had the most trouble adjusting to college life academically (generally, they adjusted to college life socially all too well).

    • Jan

      I don’t have personal experience with this exact issue, but I think you might do better to focus less on the pot itself and more on the other behaviors that he shouldn’t be doing (skipping school, driving). I also think that if I were in his place, I would be more responsive to adult conversations and less responsive to being treated like a child; that would make me more rebellious and resentful, and less likely to do internal growing up in the months before I leave the house. The wilderness program sounds like a bad idea unless he is really the kind of kid who would enjoy it. In the big scheme of things, this isn’t necessarily a huge deal (sounds like his friends aren’t doing more than pot — although that could be my naivete). He’s almost done with high school, he’s gotten in to college, and this is a relatively safe time and environment for him to do some stupid, irresponsible things. I also think that taking about his phone/gym privileges leaves him with two fewer things to do, and more time to “experiment.” You may want to give back the privileges that are genuinely beneficial to him (like gym), even if you continue to withhold those that make you nervous (like driving).

      All this being said, I don’t think there is a perfect, right response, and I don’t think that any one action you take will change his life’s path. My parents have spent their whole lives wondering what they should have done differently with my troubled sister, but at the end of the day, she is who she is, and I don’t think that she would be very different as an adult if they had made X decision instead of Y. It would certainly be a good idea to talk to parents in similar situations, but don’t go looking for that magic solution, and also know that kinks usually work out in time. It sounds like your son has had a really unhappy adolescence (not that he, or his parents, did something wrong that caused it to be that way), and he has come out pretty okay considering.

      If I were you, I wouldn’t turn a blind eye, and I wouldn’t keep my opinions to myself, but I would also put the pot in perspective, relative to all the other good and bad influences in his life, and all the other good and bad things he does. Try to encourage him to fill more of his time with positive activities; that might be enough to keep the pot in “check,” if not to eradicate it. (I tend to view pot like alcohol, though — I don’t like them, but I don’t think they’re wrong in moderation. Your views may vary.)

    • new york associate

      Your son is headed off to college in just four months. While you are seeing this as a kid with a drug problem, I read your words and see this as a kid who is testing boundaries and creating separation between himself and his family in anticipation of going off to college. He has to be obnoxious so that he can survive and embrace the giant move out of the home.

      I think that a lot of seniors in high school engage in this kind of behavior during the three-four months prior to departing for college. I didn’t smoke pot, but I did run around with friends, stayed out until dawn, and, not infrequently, acted like a brat. In retrospect, I was so sad and afraid and excited about moving out and going to college that I was testing limits and creating separation between myself and my family. It was a trial period for me. One of the things that I love about my mom is that during my senior year, she basically handled it as if I were already halfway in college. Her perspective was that once I went away to college, I wasn’t going to have any parental oversight — so I might as well get used to the freedom while I was still safely at home, where my parents could bail me out. Now, I wasn’t hurting anyone, smoking pot with my little siblings, or causing major crises, so YMMV.

      But it might be that the way to fix this situation is actually to back off and give your son some freedom. Figure out the house rules that are really important to you — no pot in the house, for example — and then give him some freedom to figure out the rest of it. If you take the pot off the table, would you still be having these crisis situations every 48 hours? Just try, as a thought experiment, flipping your perspective on this. I just feel like if you spend the rest of the summer trying (and probably failing) to enforce rules and restrict privileges, or if you push him out of the next right now, you’re going to end up with an incredibly angry, resentful kid who will go to college and be the king of the stoners. The more you try to control him, the more he rebels — so it might be worth it to stop trying to control him.

      Good luck. I think you sound like a wonderful mom.

      • Anon

        This exactly. Please trust it is this, until you receive information to the contrary.

    • DC Jenny

      I do not have kids, but I was a troubled teen. I never did any drugs, but I drank, did very poorly in school and had a terrible attitude at home. At the base of my behavior was rage and depression caused by our horrible family dysfunction. When I was 16, my (divorced) parents banded together and tried to crack down. On the advice of a psychiatrist, they told me I had lost *all* privileges and would be following a strict schedule of school, homework, and chores with no TV or socializing until I shaped up. They asked me to sign a contract agreeing to this program and said the next step would be a group home for troubled teens. When they told me this I truly felt that they did not love me at all. I was constantly in horrible emotional pain, but all my parents saw was behavior that made them feel uncomfortable. All they cared about was stopping the behavior, not my well-being (or so I felt at the time).

      I packed my stuff in my car and left that afternoon. I crashed with friends. I slept in my car parked in an alley for a few weeks. I got a second job. I found a room to rent in a trailer park. I worked full time through my senior year of high school, and only barely graduated. I ended up moving back home later so I could go to community college. I continued working and was basically treated as an adult roommate. It was very, very difficult on my family, and it took us a long time to recover. My relationship with my father was never the same. It was very traumatic for my younger sister. All of this put me on a path to adulthood that was very, very different from the one I had ever imagined for myself. I worked my way through college and never lived in a dorm or had “the college experience”. Regardless, the situation with my family was untenable to me, I do not regret anything I did, and I’m now a happy, successful attorney.

      Your son may be nothing like me, but your proposed plan reminds me very much of my parents’ plan. I do not think it will get you your desired results.

      • DC Jenny

        Reading this over, I’m thinking it might be more helpful to say what I wish my parents would have done instead.

        More than anything, I wish they would have asked, ‘What’s wrong?” I wish they would have gotten me some talk therapy. I wish we could have all gone to therapy together and my voice could have been heard. I wish they would have paid more attention to me. I wish they would have spent more time with me. I wish they would have been more flexible in their idea of a “good” daughter. I wish that when I was packing my stuff in my car they would have asked me not to go. I wish they had said they would love me no matter what.

        • OP

          Hugs to you. My heart broke when I read this. Of course, we ask him what’s wrong all the time. We try to focus on things he loves-expensive ski vacation out West, yes, of course! As noted, we regularly see a child psychologist and he has many visits alone to talk things out. We do spend time together, and when school/drugs are not the issue, he’s a fun, engaging kid to be around. But it’s hard to overlook some of these behaviors and just “hope” he’s one of the kids that outgrows it, and not one of the kids who ends up spiraling down. You just don’t want to take that risk.

          • GovtMom

            But do you LISTEN when he answers? In dealing with my troubled (younger) kid, one of the hard things has been to really listen and hear that something is bothering him. It may seem trivial or irrational or just plain dumb to me. But it’s real to him and I. need. to. listen.

            We have an instinctual response of “oh it will be OK” when someone’s talking about what upsets them. Really, the better approach is to really listen, validate their feelings. And maybe, in the case of a kid, help them figure out a better way to handle the situation the next time.

            E.g., some boys teased my son at school. He came home upset, so when it was time to do homework, he lashed out at our nanny. Called her vile names (including dropping the F-bomb at age 10), jumped down a flight of stairs, threw things, etc. In his next therapy session, I listened to him talk about how it hurt him that these kids said what they said. I hugged him while he cried. And then therapist & I helped him figure out a better way to express his really strong hurt feelings (call mama! talk to nanny!) instead of his out of control ways of dealing. It sounds like hokey therapy-speak, but yanno, it’s working.

        • Bluejay

          15 year old me wants to give 16 year old you a big hug. I had a similar relationship with one of my parents that culminated in me moving out permanently at age 16. Luckily, my other parent (they’re divorced) is amazing and that’s basically what saved my future.

        • DC Jenny

          Thanks to both of you. Typing that out made me surprisingly emotional. OP, I hope I didn’t come off sounding too harsh or accusatory. I think my main point was that if you try to force a big confrontation about this now, it could really blow up in your face and have lasting effects on all the relationships in your family. I certainly don’t think you should turn a blind eye, but I agree with all the advice you’ve gotten to pick your battles wisely.

          The real moral of my story is that despite all the drama, my mom loved me fiercely and in the best way she knew how through everything. She never gave up on me or turned her back on me, and we have a great relationship now. Based on what you’ve written here, I would guess that you and your son will be just fine.

    • SF Bay Associate

      I don’t have kids, but I did grow up in SF, and pot was *everywhere.* You know your son best, but I have a couple of cents to offer.

      1) He may not be ready for college right now. That’s ok. Not everyone is ready for college at 18. Consider alternatives, like AmeriCorps, PeaceCorps, the military/national guard, and such. He can go to college later, when he wants to and is ready to, and he will be successful then. Shipping him off to college when he’s not ready may be a recipe for disaster. He’ll do heaven knows what, and may end up flunking out and right back at your house. Subletting him an apartment is also a terrible idea.

      2) Those “scared straight” programs didn’t work on anyone I knew, and some of them were abusive. What kind of person wants to run a program with the stated purpose of yelling at and being harsh to children? Ick. Instead, think of Inception – the powerful idea isn’t one based on negative motivations like fear, but one based on positive motivation. Like, setting a good example for his sibling means there is a good reason behind absolutely no pot or drug paraphenalia in the house, ever. Never, ever driving while intoxicated or being in a car with a driver who is intoxicated.

      3) He needs to know where his drugs are coming from. Are there pot dispensaries in your area – those are safe in terms of product purity and physical security? It’s important that your drugs are only what you expect them to be – not laced with something else because your dealer is either unscrupulous with his manufacturing process or intentionalying lacing it with another drug (like LSD or E) so you get addicted to HIS blend, and are open to trying harder drugs that the dealer would be delighted to sell him.

      4) Maybe he’s depressed and/or mentally ill in some fashion. Everyone in the family needs to go to counseling together so you can talk as a family about how this is affecting each of you. Shoving things under the rug/hiding things is not going to benefit anyone. Also, if there’s a history of addiction in the family (even if it’s a deep, dark family secret), now is the time to own it and talk about it because your son may be genetically predisposed in ways his friends aren’t. A series of family meetings about drugs and addiction (I heard on NPR that kids are now doing the “choking game” and drinking hand sanitizer?!) is really important.

      5) Someone below suggested education. Pot is one thing, and yes it is problematic, but it is a gateway drug to drugs with serious, permanent consequences. Your son is 18 and will make his own choices, but at least try to give him the scientific facts about what he’s doing to his body.

      I’m sorry you’re dealing with this. It sounds really, really tough.

      • OP

        Thanks for everyone’s comments. It sounds like I may have to reconsider. Just to be clear, I did not take everything away at once. He lost the car for driving while high. He lost the phone for using it to set up party “sessions”. He lost the gym for skipping class x3 in two weeks. I do understand what you all are saying though. Like one of the posters above, I have a friend whose son started with pot and now he’s gone through rehab twice for oxycodone addiction. This was an intact, middle-class family, so it scares the cr*p out of me. I appreciate all those who took the time to write. Thanks also to those who ended with condolences/words of kindness. They brought tears to my eyes.

        • momentsofabsurdity

          OP — I already regret how much I put my mother through as a teenager and I’m only in my 20s. I think you sound like a very loving mom, FWIW.

        • AIMS

          I don’t have kids, much less teenagers, so take this for what it’s worth. I think one of the biggest problems with pot is that when parents or society treats it as some hard core drug and a teen knows that it just makes him giggly and hungry, it makes the adult look like an idiot and undermines anything valid they may have to say. Sending your kid to a rehab, even out-patient, is not a good idea, imo. Seriously — no one needs to go to rehab for pot. Yes, pot can sometimes lead to other things, and maybe your son has other problems, but rehab is certainly not the answer. Actually, it may hurt. I know someone who sounds a lot like your son who was sent to rehab for pot who started hanging out with serious drug addicts there and ended up doing much worse things. Trust me, it’s a futile idea at best, and a terrible one at worst.

          Anyway, your son is 18. Talk to him like an adult. You say he rebels more when you punish him, so stop punishing him. Talk to him. Explain to him that you understand that pot isn’t as bad as heroin, but that it can still be dangerous, esp. if he decides to drive under the influence or if he is caught with it. Explain to him that even if he decides to smoke occasionally, he should under no circumstances sell because that increases the penalties tremendously. Tell him that being an adult and making these decisions is a privilege and that he needs to be responsible. Treating him like a kid is only going to make him not listen to you, whether what you have to say is valid or not. I know you’re worried and concerned. But, honestly, I am not so old that I don’t remember parents that acted like this. We considered them crazy parents. Their kids were typically more secretive, learned to lie, and did stupider crap to rebel – don’t go down that road.

          • OP

            Just to clarify, of course, we did speak to him. We spoke to him when we caught him DEALING pot, and his answer was, he would never get caught. Last week, two kids in his school were arrested when they brought in drug sniffing dogs. We spoke to him then. His answer, he would never be so stupid. We said, does that mean you never brought pot to school? Answer, no, I didn’t say that. So we said, how do you know you won’t get caught. His answer: I would run away and they wouldn’t catch me. I appreciate all the comments, but it seems that some posters have forgotten that a) not all teenagers are rational (their brains are not fully developed, especially boys) and b) they think they are invincible/nothing bad will ever happen to them. We would love to treat him like an adult, but it’s hard to do so when he says he’ll “run away” if the cops find him with pot at school. That’s not a very adult-like comment.

          • new york associate

            Wow. The running away comment is so daft that it’s almost funny (though of course I know it’s not funny to you.) Boys!

      • sharpness

        “3) He needs to know where his drugs are coming from. Are there pot dispensaries in your area – those are safe in terms of product purity and physical security? It’s important that your drugs are only what you expect them to be – not laced with something else because your dealer is either unscrupulous with his manufacturing process or intentionalying lacing it with another drug (like LSD or E) so you get addicted to HIS blend, and are open to trying harder drugs that the dealer would be delighted to sell him.”

        I’m sorry, but no. I have been around a lot of drugs in my life, and THIS DOES NOT HAPPEN. I have literally never ever heard of this actually happening and I have been around thousands of drug interactions. Your dealer is not lacing your pot with coke because guess what? Coke is expensive! And it’s not like you smoke it once and you’re addicted, so the whole rationale makes no sense. And there is no “manufacturing” process for pot – it’s a plant! It grows in the ground! It’s not meth. And I don’t even think you can smoke LSD or E. I have never heard of anyone smoking LSD or E and trust me, if you could do it, I would have heard of it.

        Look I am all for caution, but telling these stories – which are clearly urban myths designed to scare people – just obfuscate the things you actually have to be wary of. If you tell this story with a cautionary tale of driving while stoned, your child is more likely to discard both stories as nonsense.

        • SF Bay Associate

          This is a concern my pot-smoking friends (with decades of recreational pot use while maintaining very successful careers as attorneys) have said they have, even now. It seems pretty logical to me that you want to buy drugs in a safe place with reliable sourcing, much like you’d want when buying anything else you put into your body. You clearly have more first hand knowledge than I, so thanks for correcting me.

          • sharpness

            Sorry if I came off a little harsh – but overall point was that this concern is so silly that it could make other concerns perceived as equally silly. There are legit risks to smoking pot, but I really don’t think that harder-drug-laced pot is one of them. I’d be more concerned about pesticides or fertilizer on my pot (maybe that is why your friends are worried about “clean” pot?) than it being mixed with LSD or coke.

        • anon for sure

          My cousin was hospitalized when he smoked pot laced with meth. He ended up being fine (and still smokes!) but got a medical marijuana card. So yeah, it does happen.

        • KK

          Yeah, I have to agree. Lacing pot with more expensive drugs is just nonsensical, even if hypothetically someone could get addicted to your specific brand. In most areas (certainly in my area, maybe not out west), selling weed isn’t all that competitive b/c people work hard to find a reliable, less-sketchy connection. If you are reliable and not sketchy, you will not have to work that hard to keep your customers. I’m not saying no one has ever done it, but the average pot smoker is probably just as likely to get hit by lightning as smoke pot mixed with something harder (unknowingly).

    • GovtMom

      Where is his psychologist in all of this? You say he’s recommended outpatient rehab and has no experience re wilderness programs. Are you working with the psychologist, i.e., talking to him along with your son? Is your son on any meds for the anxiety or depression?

      I agree with the others who said forget the wilderness program. I really don’t know what, if anything, your son will get out of that, except possibly exposure to even more reckless behaviors. I’m also struggling with the idea of outpatient rehab for social smoking, especially when he is unwilling to quit. Not sure what this will achieve.

      I do think you need to back off a bit, look at the bigger picture and see what is *REALLY* a problem and what is relatively normal teen behavior. E.g.: smoking in the house == not acceptable; cutting class every now and then == pretty normal teen stuff; driving under the influence == not acceptable.

      So you say he has no job, no sports, no real school work. What could you do to help change that and create something positive for him to do with his time? Summer internship somewhere? Part-time job? College classes this summer to get ahead? Volunteering somewhere?

      Disclaimer: I never did any drugs. I know I’m an outlier, but it’s who I am (and yeah, I had plenty of opportunity. It was just never my thing). My kids are younger, but one of them, now a tween, is pretty troubled. I can well imagine being in your shoes in a couple of years. I have really learned to pick my battles with him, because not everything can be a battle. I have learned to treat his psychologist as an integral part of our team in managing our son. And I’ve learned to take a lot of emotion out of our interactions, by not getting upset over his almost-constant bad behavior and just calmly establishing consequences. It is not easy. But living in constant crisis is also not the answer.

      • AnonForThis

        I’ll add to this – how does your son feel about his psychologist – does he like the doc, trust him? I was a “troubled” young adult – I was undiagnosed bipolar II through high school and freshman year of college, a self-injurer through my early 20s, and attempted suicide several times. In HS, I was a decent student and a varsity athlete, but when I went to college and didn’t have that structure built for me, I crumbled. I was placed on permanent medical leave from my first undergraduate school. Most of this was shown though chronic tardiness and class cutting and exhaustion, and I snapped in the middle of an exam.

        Looking back, despite people forcing me into therapy from middle school on, I never found anyone I really could trust – I felt like I was supposed to, but they never gave me a reason. I was smart enough to tell them what they wanted to hear, and move on. I’d be in a very different place now if I hadn’t slid through those cracks. I was 20 by the time I found a set of doctors who worked for me, and were able to give me the tools I needed to fix myself. I wish I’d found them sooner, that’s for certain – it would’ve saved me a lot of time, money and heartache.

        • are you me?

          That you were able to find a support system, even eventually, gives me hope.

          • AnonForThis

            I needed to hit my bottom (which, praise the small gods, was not as bad as some people’s bottoms) first, though, and I needed to want to fix myself. There’s hope out there, though – and if it’s at all helpful, my support system was medication free for a really long time (I’m on a mood stabilizer now for migraines of all things, but I’m such a rapid cycler that there weren’t many options at the time).

            I have a B.S. and a Masters and a good, solid, non-retail or stall-mucking job I love to itty bits and pieces now, though, which is something that I didn’t think I’d find during my in-patient days.

    • edj

      My older son also smoked a lot of pot. He did it in his father’s house and his baby half sister found his paraphernalia which got him banned from that house.

      My rules once he hit 18 were pretty simple:

      1. I can’t control what you do outside my house and I am not even going to pretend to try.
      2. You are never to smoke anything in my house; if you do, you move out that day.
      3. If you are too drunk/high to drive home, call me any time of the day or night and I will come get you–no recriminations, no lecture, nothing but a ride. Better safe than dead.

      He didn’t stop smoking for several more years which was horrible because he also has type 1 diabetes. The pot smoking and drinking really messed up his blood sugar levels.

      My suggestion to you mirrors what a couple of others have said. He’s 18, quit laying down rules like he’s 12. Figure out what is most important to you and your husband in terms of maintaining safety etc in your home and then structure a couple of rules around that (ie no smoking in the house–that was huge to me). Don’t send him to a camp; he doesn’t want to go, others have said this and they are right–those camps are very poorly regulated and while you might luck into a great one, you might not.

      • KK

        I agree with all of this. Have no kids of my own yet (am closer to your son’s age than yours, most likely), but add me to the group who smoked plenty of pot as a teenager (and college student) and I turned out fine. DH also smoked, a lot more than I did, and also turned out just fine. Now, for some people, weed will be the first step to something else. For many, it’s not. But, this is important– you can’t control this. Quite frankly, it is up to your son, not you, how this turns out. I’m sure that is terrifying, but it is what it is. Its sort of like trying to hold sand in the palm of your hand- the harder your grip, the more sand falls out. Your son is most likely just stretching his wings a bit. Exploring the limits of rules and adulthood. At this time of his life (end of senior year), that is not uncommon. The tighter you make restrictions, the harder he will push back.

        There are things you can do to help, and I think edj made good points about that. Make sure he has a support system. Set ground rules about your house and car, as best you can. Treat him more like an adult w/ training wheels than a child- tell him you know you can’t control what he does all the time, but that you would like him to respect certain rules (re your house and car and his sibling). Tell him if he ever needs help, you’re there.

        I don’t think rehab will do anything unless your son thinks he has a problem. Rehab does not work unless the person going wants it to work. It’s not like hypnosis. You can’t trick or force him into sobriety. A wilderness camp? Just no.

        Also, you should think about whether your view of your relationship with him needs to evolve. I don’t know if it does, but I think many parent-child relationships start to strain around the last year of high school-first year of college. Many kids start to push back against parental restrictions and many parents try to push back harder to retain control. It’s especially hard for you here because your son is doing something that both you and the law disagree with. How do you want your relationship with him to look when he is an adult? Is that how he wants it to look? You need to start working towards that because he is almost an adult.

        One more thing- I think “kicking him out” by renting an apartment for him as a consequence of the drug use should be an absolute last resort, only if he is seriously starting to affect your other children. 2 reasons: first, you lose the ability to monitor him and be there for him on a regular basis; second, you risk sending a message of conditional love- sending him away because you disagree with his behavior. Sometimes this is necessary because the behavior is so outrageous and dangerous, but I don’t think you are anywhere near there yet.

    • Anon for this

      There is a great group called Al Anon. It is for family members of addicts and alcoholics. They have special meetings for parents. I am not saying your son is an addict; he may not be. But I love an addict and the Al Anon meetings have helped me set boundaries and focus on taking care of myself and learning what I can and cannot control. Good luck to you.

      • Silvercurls

        Can you network with other parents of kids w/ learning disabilties (LD) ? You may find others have faced similar situations & have useful suggestions for you re psychologists, family rules, various ways of coping etc. I don’t have any direct experience w/ an 18-year-old (my child is significantly younger); my expertise is in a different corner of the special needs community. In a couple of hours (!) I can get back online to find some more resources re LD. Right now someone else in our home wants to get onto the family computer. In the meantime, ditto the good wishes from everyone else. I hope things get better for your family sooner rather than later.

    • Totes McGotes

      Will echo what many commenters have said: 1) You sound like a very loving mom. 2) The situation you’ve described, while surely a total PITA, doesn’t sound that serious. The wilderness camp, rehab, and sublet all sound like bad ideas.

      You said he’s seeing a child psychologist. Well, he’s not a child anymore. I started seeing a therapist when I was 14 and by the time I ended the relationship at 20, I’d known the therapist so long that she had become a third parent for me and I stopped telling her things because I didn’t feel like she was a neutral, uninvolved ear anymore. Then when she would try to give me advice, I felt like it was unfounded because she didn’t really know about my day-to-day life anymore. 30 years of experience can’t stand up against someone who’s outgrown or doesn’t trust their therapist. Please consider getting him a new therapist since he is an adult now – especially if there are kids’ toys and the like in the waiting room!!

      My advice is just to remind him that he’s one of your favorite people ever, but he needs to act like the adult he is and show some respect by keeping it out of the house, out of the car, and away from his brother. Then accept that he is going to be a jerk in some form or fashion until at least sophomore year. (If you think this is bad, wait until he comes back for the summer after experiencing *real* freedom freshman year. That was the worst time between me and my parents. …Maybe you should get him to study abroad that summer…)

      Hugs and sincere best wishes. Keep us updated.

    • coco

      Is his therapist still the best therapist for him? It sounds like he has been seeing this person for a while, but s/he doesn’t seem particularly equipped to deal with at least some of the current issues. It might make sense to start transitioning to a new therapist – getting something set up near school next year, and he could start talking to that person on the phone, might be a good step.

    • Seattleite

      Drug and alcohol use are frequently depression & anxiety self-medication. So, is he on meds for the anxiety/depression?

      At this point, I wouldn’t remove privileges that represent good behavior. So please, give him back the gym! By removing that, you are closing off possibilities for 1) making a different set of friends; 2) spending time in productive ways; and 3) holistic treatment for the depression and anxiety.

      By the time our children are 18 (and beginning more like 13-14) we can’t necessarily stop them from making horrible choices. Our role, then, changes from ‘prevention’ to ‘awareness.’ As in, making sure that they know the possible consequences of their choices. By age 18, punishments are unlikely to be effective. You can absolutely make rules that he must follow in order to live with you, but I doubt removing phone etc. will have any effect. He’ll just get smarter at hiding it.

      I wouldn’t sublet an apartment for him. To me, that reads as you shipping him off, whereas if he chooses ‘pot’ over ‘living with family’ that’s on him. And finding his own place to live should be on him as well, as befitting one who makes adult choices.

      Also, consider a session or two at a 12-step program for family members. I realize he’s not addicted yet, but there have got to be people there who’ve been through this and can help you.

      Good luck. Watching kids make unwise choices is the WORST part of being a parent.

      ~Mom of 21 and 18 year olds.

      • OP

        His therapist specializes in adolescent/young adult boys, so he’s not a psychologist for very young children. He and my son have a very good relationship, and my son goes to him willingly. As to the other questions, yes, my son is on medication for anxiety and depression. He was also on an ADHD med, but asked this year to stop it, and we felt it was his decision to continue or not, so he no longer takes that med.

    • Anon

      I have very strong anti drug views, so take my opinion with a grain of salt. I would sit your son down, explain to him that you will always love him, but you cannot support his actions. I would ask open-ended questions like: why are you using pot? What are your plans for your career? If you could do anything this summer besides sit on the couch at home, what would it be? Is there some way that I could be more supportive of you (besides supporting your pot usage)? Then after listening to your son and processing everything, I would set clear rules for your son. This may sound harsh, but I would tell your son that your paying for college is contingent upon him cleaning up his act and getting sober. If he doesn’t behave this summer, he can move out and get a job. Going to college (especially a private college to the tune of 50k) is a privilege, not a right. I would not finance my son’s education unless he were willing to make the most of it.

      I think counseling can only be useful to the extent that your son is willing to participate and it sure sounds like you are trying.

    • anon

      I don’t know, I see a lot of red flags here. The first thing you need to do is determine if he really is just smoking pot, or if he’s using other drugs as well. His learning disability, even if well controlled, puts him at higher risk of addiction, his new stoner friends, his defiant behavior, the fact that your psychologist recommended outpatient rehab, which isn’t usual, I don’t believe, for a casual pot smoker. Could be just pot, but I would want to make sure, maybe drug testing.

      • Silvercurls

        Back again, with apologies for being a lot later than “a couple of hours”. Warning: this is long. I’ll post a quick cross-reference tomorrow in case you miss this tonight (and why wouldn’t you? It’s well after midnight when anybody sane would already be asleep!).

        I second your impulses to be concerned rather than just to hope things resolve themselves (apologies if misreading). It’s good to see (OP 5:24 p.m.) that you and your son spend time together and that aside from drugs/school concerns you enjoy his company. I think I also agree with those who encouraged you to pick your battles and overlook some minor sins in favor of redirecting more serious misdeeds. I say “some” because I know my own parents would have come down on me like a ton of bricks if I had been dabbling in drugs—their theory being to prevent problems from escalating. (My hesitation is due to lack of experience as a young person or parent: my child is not yet a teenager; we haven’t faced this particular challenge.) FWIW I put my full disclosure re personal experience w/ street drugs at the end of this response. One more thought uninformed by personal experience: can your son defer his college acceptance for a year? Surely he’s not the only one to consider or act on this?

        If you are in or near the Maryland suburbs of DC I can recommend some good psychologists or ask others for references. But I’m sure that wherever you are you can find good professionals or community resources because sadly every community has this problem. If religious affiliation is important & enjoyable for your family then go for it—it’s great to have another resource. But no preaching here—there are plenty of nonreligious resources also.

        To find connections with other parents of kids w/ learning disabilities I found the Learning Disabilities Association of American at www (dot) ldanatl (dot) org (national site, but state chapters also come up in the search or can be accessed from the national site). I’m hoping there’s a state or county/local listserv that you can ask for help. Another Google search for “parents help children drug addiction” had me bug-eyed with information overload… Honestly, I think that people who have already traveled this road are going to be most helpful to you. Examples:

        Been There’s suggestions (4:33 p.m.):

        “…for better or worse, he’s engaging in attention-seeking behavior, and you moving him out will only reinforce the feelings that drive that need for attention, even negative attention, from you.
        One thing that helped us— our local police dept had some family crisis / youth intervention counselors who were excellent resources and much more practical and in-touch than the family therapist.

        (Read more: https://corporette.com/2012/05/07/coffee-break-logo-crest-color-piping-leather-belt/#ixzz1uFBV9FMJ)

        and

        “Based on what you’ve written, I’d try to keep him at home and keep trying to enforce your rules. But I’d also reduce the number of rules to a crucial core of the two or three you absolutely insist on, otherwise you will be driven mad by constant infractions.

        (Read more: https://corporette.com/2012/05/07/coffee-break-logo-crest-color-piping-leather-belt/#ixzz1uFBJpQFT”)

        See also Anon 4:31 p.m. (2x), 4:42 p.m., 5:03 p.m. re the sick, pit-of-the-stomach parental worry:

        “Now, I just want him to be clean and sober, and not die. Funny how your expectations change. I used to hope he would be a lawyer or a history professor. Now I just don’t want him to die, or end up with permanent brain damage.”

        Read more: https://corporette.com/2012/05/07/coffee-break-logo-crest-color-piping-leather-belt/#ixzz1uFB8XBaE”

        I wish you and your family the strength to help your son and turn around the whole situation. I also wish you all the strength necessary to keep pushing on seemingly solid walls until you press the magic panel that opens up and lets you walk through to another parent who’s been there, or to the key community counselor or psychologist who really connects with your son, or even just to your being able to stay calm and accessible even when you want to scream nonstop or crawl back into bed and stay there.

        Full disclosure: Through quirks of character and fate plus profound personal disinterest in getting chemically altered, I never tried any illegal drugs. (I also suspected that if I ever went out to buy drugs the dealers would laugh and send me home. I was not exactly sophisticated as a young woman.) My reaction was “live and let live” (neither joining in nor rushing to call the cops) when friends experimented or used sparingly; this attitude hardened after a cousin died from a drug overdose following years of using and family grief. I’m still not rah rah drug war (I think we need more prevention & rehab and less prison sentences without rehab) or opposed to marijuana for medical reasons but I think it’s possible to be a rebellious young person without smoking pot. At the very least, street drugs are an unknown, unregulated commodity with a messy, dangerous distribution system…not a great product with which to get involved.

      • OP

        Drug testing revealed high levels of pot, suggestive of daily usage, plus amphetamines. He denies amphetamine use. Of course, it could be residual from his ADHD meds, but he hasn’t taken them in over a month, and they usually clear the system in a week at most. Recommendation for outpatient rehab was due to the fact that psychologist was concerned about very risky behavior, including prior drug dealing, and a perception on psychologist’s part that my son’s responses to concerns raised after drug dealing incident were not rational/appropriate. I know all this information is a lot to absorb/process. I agree with those who say that kids who do well in school/participate in job or sports and smoke a little dope-there is little to be concerned about. Perhaps that is true about my son too, but I think the person who said there are a lot of red flags had it right. LD/ADHD does statistically put him at risk of addictive behaviors. Depression and anxiety are not helpful signs either. He has a grandfather and uncle who have significant alcohol abuse problems. He’s engaged in other very concerning behaviors-stolen money from us, caught cheating on a test, destroyed our property (broke windows/chair), has lied about damage to our car (2x, including one time when someone hit him-why lie about that???) and has run away for short (2 hour) periods of time. Again, most behaviors may be stress related, but they are not mature responses to the situations that were at hand. We talk often with him about how we are fortunate to have the resources to support him and to work through any problem that he may have-he is just often unwilling to accept our help and wants to “do things by himself and make his own decisions”.

        • yes to this

          OK, reading your newer posts, I change my answer.

          Dealing pot. Lying. Cheating. LD/ADHD not medicated. Destroying property. Possible other drug use. Irrationality. Depression and anxiety.

          These are not symptoms of “senior-itis” they are serious red flags. Dealing is much different than using it as an escape. I think in-patient is treatment may be your only choice, but I know from experience that rehab only works if the person wants it to. Going away to college won’t cure this. In fact, this sounds like the path an in-law of mine took that resulted in an early death (overdose) of a smart, maladjusted person. I wish you strength, as it appears that you will need it. Also I think his going away to college (even if you have the $50K to burn) is bound to end poorly: Ordinarily, I’d say that using college as a “reward” for positive behaviour changes would be a good idea, but I don’t think that will work in this case. I hope it works out.

  13. Blonde Lawyer

    Entertaining conversation of the day –

    Trying to speak while losing my voice. People asking if I’m sick. Me responding without hesitation, no, I lost it while playing a zombie in a mock zombie apocalypse 5k obstacle course this weekend. Surprisingly, that is not the answer they expected.

    Check out http://runforyourlives.com/.

    SOOOO much fun. The facebook page for the event has some pictures.

  14. Charlotte

    Love the belt, but being short-waisted, I never seem to be able to rock skinny ones. On me, there is just no good place to put it.

    Well, now for my threadjack. My parents are about to celebrate their 40th wedding anniversary this month, and being a slug who is always behind on things (well, I do have a FT atty job and 2 kids), I have done nothing special to prepare for this. So I need your best creative help! The best I have come up with so far is to take them to brunch that day (thankfully it’s a Sunday), but I was hoping you could give me some ideas on top of that.

    My parents don’t really need “stuff.” I am not particularly creative, and most of the family photos are at their house, so I don’t see myself getting anything like that together. I know I am sounding self-defeating, but does anyone have any ideas as to something meaningful that I could give to them in about a week? Thanks in advance!

    • fresh jd

      How about something edible like a pricier bottle of wine/champagne/cognac, or even high quality olive oils if they don’t drink? Or an Edible Arrangements.

    • Flamingo

      What about gift certificates to a local restaurant, tickets for a play or concert, or lessons for something they could do together? Where did the meet – maybe you could order something from that part of the country? I’m a big fan of experience gifts for the parents because it seems like they don’t treat themselves as much.

    • TCFKAG

      What about cooking them a gourmet home cooked meal, and getting candle sticks and a white table cloth and nice music and making it “romantic” but at home. It would be fun but still laid back.

  15. CA Atty

    So I’ve now been told twice in one week that I can “dress down” from what I’m wearing, that a suit jacket isn’t necessary, and that it’s better to be a little more casual than my current style. Since my current style is very casual (I thought!) I’m at a bit of a loss and have to admit that I’m a bit irritated. Since when is an attorney not supposed to dress professionally???

    All I was wearing today was a dress from Kohl’s and a suit jacket that I think of as my “casual” jacket, it’s super light, not lined, and has 1/2 sleeves (to elbows). The last time someone said something I was wearing non-suit black slacks and a black jacket with a colorful top underneath.

    I’m pretty sure this means I will never wear a suit jacket again, which, I’m really okay with. But it makes me wonder, so I saw one of the other attorneys in my office wearing jeans the other day, I figured it was Friday and she had had some sort of child-care issue and was working a half day and she probably figured it was better to come in even in jeans than not at all. But maybe that’s actually okay? Today I was told “see that guy? He’s wearing jeans and a polo, that’s perfectly formal enough.” I am NOT going to wear jeans and a polo to work!!!

    This is completely the opposite problem of most of us, and that I have had in the past, trying to look more professional, but how do I keep the professional “divide” so to speak, while not making others uncomfortable? (Or getting reprimanded by my boss…)

    • new york associate

      How annoying. Nevertheless, I invoke the First Kommandment of Kat: Know your office. What about the same “casual” suit jacket, but over dark-rinse jeans and pointy-toed shoes instead of a dress? Or the same dress, but with a cardigan instead of a jacket? It also might be a color thing — are you wearing more black than everyone else?

      I think that people are resisting the “suit” look. I wouldn’t give up on the suit jackets, but I would try to break them up.

    • mamabear

      That is bizarro. I’ve heard of people being counseled to dress up more, but never to dress down.

      Personally, I’d ignore it. If you have developed a professional style that projects the image you like and that you are comfortable with, stick with it!!

    • Ru

      You can still wear a jacket! Just with casual underpinnings – like jeans or chinos. When you wear a sheath or a skirt, stick to cardigans and blouses and whatnot. Not dressing formally is something I struggle with a lot at work – I was raised old school – that you wear professionally clothing at work. But fitting into the office environment is very important.

    • CA Atty

      I hope you guys are right. I actually thought this workplace would be more formal than my last, but that has not proven to be the case. I think you are all right that what they’re resisting is the “suit look.” Which means I can try some other styles…and invest in some cardigans!

      It’s particularly annoying to me right now because I’m finally finally on the weight-loss train…which just means that none of my pants really “fit” I’m sort of in transition now (decided after a shopping trip two weekends ago) where none of the formerly “big” sizes fit right anymore but I can’t quite convince myself that the smaller sizes are flattering. Therefore…the purchase of approximately 6 dresses., at least one with the thought that I could “work” it up by wearing the earlier described casual jacket.

      new york associate, I have been wearing a bit more black than everyone else, and honestly more than I have wanted to. Luckily, of my new dresses some of them have black in them but they also have purple and yellow and pink and peach! (Not all at once…) and at least two have no black at all. So that should help.

      mamabear, without looking it up I would say that I am north of you where if Berkenstocks weren’t invented…they should have been. I have seen my boss and others come to meetings wearing them. As someone who tries to be professional but also not judge…it’s been rough!! :-P

      Ru, question about fabrics. My dresses are all synthetic (poly/spandex) since they’re pretty cheap. Wouldn’t a cardigan look weird over them? What kind of fabric should I be looking for? I’m thinking about hitting Kohl’s this weekend (although my 30% discount expired, sad, but I still have a 20%!) and can branch out from there, but don’t want to spend too much as my size (hopefully continues to) changes.

      • Former MidLevel

        I don’t think there is any inherent conflict between synthetic dress material and cardigans. But that is just me.

        • Ru

          What she said. Wear your dresses while you go shopping (or carry them in a tote) so you can see how the cardigan fits over the dresses. Look for a substantial weight/knit or something totally different (like a polka dot jacket over a solid sheath, smtg like that). And no, cardigans won’t look weird over them. I wear poly/spandex dresses, too. Happy shopping!

      • mamabear

        Birkenstocks used to be headquartered in Novato, midway between you and me (you’re in Santa Rosa, right?) I don’t know whether they were invented there, but they certainly feel at home in NoCa. That said, they never have and never will touch my feet.

        I’m in a business casual office in downtown SF. Today I’m wearing a tahari sheath dress with a longer cardigan. I think cardigans work and still look professional and authoritative when the pieces you wear them with are structured and – I’m sorry to say it – not secretarial. If you mix a standard boxy cardigan with a floral dress… well, it might be more casual but it’s not going to say CA Atty Is The Boss Lady.

        • CA Atty

          I am in Santa Rosa. I don’t know what the appeal of Birk’s are. I did have a pair once (thanks mom!) and found them uncomfortable, not very durable, and ugly as sin. Actually, maybe the granola-crunching hippy version of the Uggs or Crocs?

          I’ve never been a cardigan-er, but I’m going to try! :-)

          • TCFKAG

            Ca Atty as a fellow swimmer, I really never ever got the Birk thing because, god for freaking bid you got them wet. I mean, they get all…weird. But you know, OPMMV (other people’s MMV) :-).

        • HippieEsq

          Birkenstocks are made in Germany. They may have had a store in CA, but not their HQ. That is their US Distributor’s headquarters. As the official HippieChick of Corporette, I just know this stuff. :)

  16. NOLA-Bound

    My husband and I are heading to New Orleans soon for a much-needed long weekend away, and I was wondering if any of you ladies have recommendations for can’t-miss places to visit/eat/experience? Also, any tips on what to wear down there? We’re coming from a cool and gloomy NYC. Thanks!

    • DC Jenny

      If you are into music you should check out the bars on Frenchman Street, dba, Snug Harbor, and The Spotted Cat Music club. They always have mind-blowingly good live music.

      • NOLA-Bound

        Yes, this is what we’re looking for! So hard trying to sort through the overload of info in guidebooks.

      • DC Jenny

        You are willing to venture out of the French Quarter for music, try The Maple Leaf (which has the added benefit of being next to the incredible Jacques-Imo restaurant), Mimi’s in the Marigny, Vaunghan’s, Rock and Bowl (Go bowling while listening to live music! I onced bowled and two-stepped to a Zydeco band here!), and Tipitina’s.

        • SF Bay Associate

          I love Rock and Bowl. And hilariously/sadly, the food at that bowling alley is better than almost all the “new orleans” food we can get out in California.

        • DC Jenny

          Rock and Bowl is the first place I went the first time I went to NOLA (I was staying in a hostel near there.) so it will always have a special place in my heart.

          I hear you about “New Orleans” food. I have never had anything decent here in DC, including at Acadiana, which is supposed to be amazing and is frequented by Michelle Obama.

        • NOLA

          If you like Jacques-Imo’s, the same person owns Crabby Jack’s. Awesome poboys. They’re only open for lunch and in a hard to reach location but so worth it. I have friends who either stop there on the way in to town for a poboy or on the way to the airport.

    • SF Bay Associate

      Clancy’s. Cafe du Monde. Royal Street art galleries. Snug Harbor. Sucre. Mahoney’s. Commander’s Palace (in the Garden Room). Maple Leaf. Emeril’s. Cochon. Carousel Bar. Mr. B’s bbq shrimp. Jealous :).

    • NOLA

      Magazine St. for fun and funky shopping – Fleur d’Orleans for affordable local jewelry. Also, Sucre on Magazine for amazing gelato and the most beautiful chocolates and French macaroons. I would highly recommend La Petite Grocery for either lunch or dinner. I was also at Ralph’s on the Park recently and it was fabulous. The Aquarium. Brunch at Commander’s Palace.

      I hardly every go to the French Quarter, so I’m sure someone else will jump in here (SF Bay Associate?)

      It’s starting to turn pretty hot and humid. Shorts or a cute summer dress, sandals, sleeveless. But please wear something nicer if you go to a nicer restaurant. Nothing burns the locals more than going out for a nice dinner and having tourists in shorts and t-shirts sitting next to them.

      • SF Bay Associate

        Woot! I love Royal Street and hate Bourbon street. There’s some really great art on Royal, but Bourbon is just gross. And how I love Sucre. I also hear Irene’s is great, but difficult to get a res from what I understand.

        • FormerPhotog

          Oh man, Irene’s is FANTASTIC! So was Upperline. I’m also a fan of the fried chicken at Coop’s Place, and Pimm’s Cups at Napolean House.

          I was so happy that our big corporate meeting was there this year – I got to schedule in some extra time – I spent nearly a whole day in St Louis No. 1 taking photos, and thoroughly enjoyed my Cafe du Monde.

          I love where I’m living now, but every time I visit New Orleans, it feels like home.

          • HippieEsq

            Thanks for mentioning Coops. I love that place! I have visited Coops all 5 times I have been in NOLA. Surprisingly, the pasta at Coops is delish.

            Catch Rebirth Brass Band at Maple Leaf and dance like you will never see those people again. NOLA is my second home. I love it there.

            If you can catch Galactic at Tipitina’s, it is the ultimate New Orleans experience. Spend as little time on Bourbon St. as you can. Spend some time just “being” in New Orleans. The people there blow me away when you actually just hang out and listen to them tell their stories.

          • NOLA

            Love Galactic. I knew their keyboard player when he was in college. When they started up, they were called Galactic Prophylactic.

        • SC

          For a wonderful, affordable brunch in a beautiful French quarter courtyard, try Cafe Amelie on Royal St. Reservations recommended, and request courtyard seating when you call. My husband took me there for my birthday a few weeks ago, and I loved everything about it!

      • NOLA-Bound

        Thanks for this. Living in NYC, we get the tension between tourists bumping up against locals trying to enjoy their lives. While there are definite tourist traps we want to see, we’re usually more interested in the great places rather than the places that purely cater to tourists. Not so much into the party scene, more interested in great food, music, drinks, culture, etc.

        • NOLA

          Oh and if you’re a Mad Men fan, Bryan Batt has a shop (Hazelnut) on Magazine St. between Octavia and Arabella (near Whole Foods). Bryan looked pretty dapper yesterday in a linen jacket and saddle shoes.

      • Maddie Ross

        In fact, you may get turned away from some in shorts. This past summer, my husband and I tried to eat at Galatoires, and even though he was wearing a collared shirt, it was with shorts (it was over 95 degrees) and we were turned down at the door. For nicer places, it’s worth asking when making the reservation.

    • Barrister in the Bayou

      I’ll second Mr. B’s Bistro, but for brunch tho’. I liked the Palace Cafe on Canal and La Boca in the Warehouse district (Argentinian Steakhouse… yum). BUT, one of my faves is Arnaud’s; it is a fine dining restaurant and it is awesome! They have a jazz room, a great bar, a Mardi Gras museum, and fab food!

      Oh, and you can’t leave the city w/o going to Cafe du Monde… they are like zeppolis but better.

      On a non-food related note, go to the National WWII museum. It is really worth the visit.

      • Barrister in the Bayou

        I also have to second the Carousel Bar at the Hotel Monteleone… you are actually on a moving carousel if you go at the right time.

      • SC

        The WWII museum really is excellent. One of the best museums I’ve been to anywhere.

        Other restaurant recommendations (we love our food!) – Donald Link’s restaurants Cochon and Herbsaint are always really good. Cochon may be my favorite restaurant in the city – serious food but fun, casual setting. Bayona is also awesome. The former executive chef at Commander’s, Brian Landry, has just opened a seafood place called Borgne – we tried it last week, and it was excellent. Nobody has thrown this out, so if you’re going all out, Stella! and Restaurant August are excellent experiences (I prefer Stella!, but August is more traditional New Orleans and has a lunch special that’s probably the best place in town).

        If you’re looking for more things to do and places to walk around during the day, take the street car either uptown, where you can explore Audubon Park, Magazine Street, and/or the Garden District, or to City Park, which has beautiful oak trees and a first-class sculpture garden. Finally, you can take the ferry across the river and explore Algiers Point, which is an up-and-coming neighborhood with some cool cafes etc.

        Enjoy your trip!

      • NOL--bound

        We just snagged reservations for Arnauds, since we couldn’t get any at Commander’s Palace or Cochon (at least not for dinner). Glad to see someone recommends it since I was getting worried we’d left everything too late (totally forgot it’s Mother’s Day weekend, as well).

  17. Anon

    Just venting here about salary. Mine is terrible, as in about 20K below what it should be. But when I took the job I was out of work, and the person hiring me told me when I queried the salary that it was “non-negotiable”. I am now approaching a performance review and will ask for more money. It bugs me though to hear colleagues complaining about their budgets when I know they are on salaries more than double mine. Probably they think I am in the same ball park as them but seriously, I would never b!tch about how tough it is to live on $X unless I was reasonably sure the person I was talking to earned that or more.

    • HippieEsq

      Please do not go in asking for more money just because others make more than you do. Negotiate based on your own strengths and accomplishments!

  18. Bunkster

    Hey, everybody. HR just sent me a document to fill out for the Exit Interview. Among the questions are the following:
    “Have you accepted a new position?”
    “If so, where?”

    I was under the impression that they can’t ask this.

    • new york associate

      You don’t have to answer, right? I mean, it’s an exit interview.

    • SAB

      I think they can ask it, but I doubt they can compel you to answer it. I would probably leave it blank if it makes you uncomfortable and not make a big fuss about their asking. They may find out at some point anyways, from a LinkedIn update or that sort of thing.

    • momentsofabsurdity

      They can ask but you don’t have to tell them. Leave it blank. If they ask at the interview say, “I’m sorry, I’m not comfortable sharing that information.” What can they do, fire you?

    • Bunkster's answers

      Q: “Have you accepted a new position?”
      A: Yes.

      Q: “If so, where?”
      A: Away from crazy boss.

      • KLG

        Hahahahaha. It would probably take every ounce of my self-control not to write that if I were you.

        Agree with everyone who said they can probably ask but you don’t have to answer. Although given what an a-hole your boss seemed to be, I wonder if it wouldn’t be useful to tell them he is the reason you left. Obviously that probably depends on who you do the exit interview with…

    • CHL

      Hi – I’m on the other end of these exit surveys in trying to figure out why our high-performers/high-potentials leave the company and what we can do to better retain them. Why wouldn’t you feel comfortable sharing?

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