There is a TON of holiday-wear out right now at the various workwear stores (see our post on what to wear to a holiday office party for the full roundups in various categories). Velvet blazers, in particular, have always been a favorite for low-key events like those held in the daytime, on a workday, etc. — they’re festive but still polished. Plus, you can get a lot of wear out of them as toppers for various events or with different base outfits from year to year.
One of my favorites right now is this deep plush one from 1.State (also available in black). It’s $98 at Nordstrom.
Hunting for something lower priced? This Macy’s one is only $64 and looks nice. This ASOS one is fun and available in plus sizes, and Target has a lot of options in both plus sizes and budget-friendly options. And if you’d prefer to drool, behold this gorgeous $725 velvet paisley blazer.
This post contains affiliate links and Corporette® may earn commissions for purchases made through links in this post. For more details see here. Thank you so much for your support!
Some of our other favorite festive blazers right now…
Workwear sales of note for 1.31.23:
- Nordstrom – Dresses, sweaters, boots, and more, up to 60% off! (Kat’s note: I made a massive order a few days ago personally; lots of major markdowns with lucky sizes.)
- Ann Taylor – Up to 60% off sale styles; $50 off full-price jackets, outerwear & shoes with code
- Athleta – Sale up to 70% off
- Banana Republic Factory – 40% off everything plus extra 15% off purchase
- Brooks Brothers – End of season sale, up to 70% off
- Dermstore – Last chance sale (through 1/31) – take an EXTRA 10% off existing markdowns (including the ones 50% off) with code
- Everlane – Up to 70% off
- Hugo Boss – Final reductions: Up to 50% off
- J.Crew – Extra 50% off select sale styles.
- J.Crew Factory – 40% off the vacation shop; 50% off sweaters & sweatshirts
- Talbots – End of Season Clearance: Extra 60% off markdowns
- Zappos – 21,000+ sale items (for women)!
Anon
I hit my head on a car door about a month and a half ago and I can still feel pain in the place I hit (right temple). Could this be cause for concern or is it just lingering muscle soreness?
Anon
Sounds like a lingering bruise, not muscle soreness. Bruises where we don’t have a lot of tissue over the bone can really hurt. But if you’re concerned, go to the doc and ask for a skull x ray. They’ll check you for a concussion too.
Anonymous
+1 there isn’t really a muscle there to be sore
Ellen
There is if she doesn’t see a neurologist. Why in the world would she ask us? I knew a doctor at Mt. Sinai ER who I wanted to marry me who told me never to avoid going to the ER, as you really don’t know what is wrong with you until you do. He was so wonderful. It is my biggest regret not marrying him. Dad was worried I could get Monkeypox or Covid from him b/c there were so many cases in the ER back then. He never got sick, and I could have been married with kids by now. That is the last time I will not marry a doctor, given the chance in the future.
Anon
This is my first election voting in Arlington, VA and when I looked at a sample ballot this weekend, I was overwhelmed by the number of questions about spending for various issues. I’m a Dem voter and I never know what to put for these, even more so when there are 6 of them. Are there any guides out there?
Anon
Sample ballot: https://vote.arlingtonva.gov/files/assets/vote/elections/sample-ballots/november-2022-sample-ballot.pdf
Anonymous
My Colorado ballot had 20 + things to vote on, some of which were judges. Colorado issues a blue book to every household that outlines the issue, the pros and cons, the cost, and how it will be funded. It’s really excellent. I learned that Colorado has had mail in ballots for a long time because our ballots tend to be long. I don’t know why.
Lacking that, I’d start with Google, public radio, or the League of Women Voters to read their explanations. Personally, I immediately ruled out any election deniers, which helped. Then I spent time researching the proposals. Free school lunch for everyone? No. Decrease state income tax? No. It took me 90 minutes, and I made thoughtful choices about issues and candidates. It’s our duty as citizens to vote, and to make informed choices.
Anon
These questions aren’t for candidates, they are spending questions.
Anonymous
As was my answer.
Anon
Why would you vote against free school lunch?
Anonymous
The proposition is to increase taxes on high income tax payers to provide free lunch at school for all children. There has been a lot of discussion in Colorado about if the best use of this money is free lunch for people who don’t need it instead of academic programs, teacher salaries, etc. Even our Democratic governor has expressed discomfort with the bill. The bill also avoids Colorado’s TABOR program, so if the initiative is over funded, the money goes into the states general fund. I voted no because I believe there should be more rigor about the best use of a new tax. I will note that free breakfast and lunch is still provided to students based on income.
Anon
I’m not in CO and can’t comment on the specifics of your bill, but generally I support free lunch for all, even kids who don’t need it, because it reduces the stigma about getting free lunch. It’s really hard to be a kid on free lunch when most other kids are paying, and even as a middle class person I’m happy to pay a bit more in taxes to reduce that discomfort. Also not all kids who have affluent parents have good home situations and parents who pack balanced, filling meals. I had a friend whose parents were very comfortable financially but the mom was very weird about dieting and never gave her enough food. I would sometimes give her money (with my parents’ permission) to buy school lunch and she was super grateful for the chance to buy a meal that was something other than steamed vegetables and boneless skinless chicken breast.
Anon
So rich people don’t want to feed children. Wow.
Anon
Are they projects you support? Then vote yes. The question is asking whether to take on debt to do those projects.
Anonymous
Local newspapers will probably have editorials that will give you a sense of what they’re about. I usually pay for a subscription to a couple of local news sources just for the month leading up to elections to get those since the bond issues tend to be hyper-local.
anon
+1 I live on the West coast now where they send out a booklet with a for and against statement, and rebuttals for each statement, but even then I seek out the local newspaper’s editorials. Back when I lived in the South and didn’t have a booklet for convenience, I would have to search online ahead of time and remember my picks. These questions were often worded in a misleading way (in my old state) that you are guaranteed to vote against your own beliefs if you hadn’t researched them beforehand.
Anon
I vote no to most ballot initiatives about spending unless it’s really compelling. I used to vote for city police& fire, library and school bonds, but the city I live in has mismanaged money so badly, I don’t even vote yes on those any more.
Try arlnow
Arlnow dot come usually does pre-election interviews with the candidates. Also, I’m a new poll worker in Arlington this year, so welcome!
Anon
In light of the dating conversations this morning about the lack of suitable men, I have a story I’d love to hear your opinions on.
I posted last week about a close friend who was constantly getting upset with her boyfriend over small indiscretions. He seemed to me to invest a lot more in the relationship than her, be incredibly kind and attentive, was funny and charming and generally good-natured. But she felt like he wasn’t good at talking about his feelings and didn’t always think about her when making decisions (such as going on a three-day trip with his mom when she wanted him to spend the weekend with her).
I feel like, all things considered, there are not that many great guys out there and if you love someone and they’re generally a catch, it makes sense to work on things with them even if they have a couple of flaws. I think this guy wasn’t used to being vulnerable but was trying to be better at it. I feel like my friend will be in for a bit of a rude awakening in trying to find someone better than him, and I was kind of shocked she ended it with him. But is that me telling women to settle? What is the balance between “there aren’t a lot of great guys out there so try to be realistic about how hard you are on someone” versus “don’t tell women to settle”? I guess I just feel like practically, if you find someone great, you should work to make it work. But it seems like there’s a lot of other people who’d be like “Don’t try to fix a man / any flaw is ground for breakup” etc. I just don’t think there are that many great guys out there though, so I think it seems silly to search for the perfect one or have really rigid standards about what you will or won’t accept.
Anon
I’m very “don’t settle” in theory, but I do caution others to really be sure when they break up with someone in search of perfection/something better. I broke up with my bf 3 years ago in search of a more intimate connection (I thought), and I regret it all the time. The dating pool is horrible, no one has come remotely close to him and how well he treated me, and I constantly miss him. I wish I had put more work into exploring what I was looking for within the relationship itself…I basically gambled to see if anything better was out there, and found out that there isn’t. Meanwhile, he 100% cut me off and there is no hope for reconciliation.
OP
Wow, this is heartbreaking, and exactly what I worry about happening to my friend. Why did you break up with him / what attributes did you think were missing? Is there really no hope for reconciliation?
So sorry. Sending you love.
Anon
Thank you. I tried for over a year to reach out to him through different mediums, but he will not respond to me, so there is no chance of reconciliation. At the time, I think I was concerned that I wasn’t feeling a “spark” anymore since we had been together for years, and I think I conflated a lull/boredom with a lack of intimacy/excitement. Honestly though, I’m still working through the whole thing.
Anon
No one wants to be your back-up plan. You broke up with this guy because he was missing something you needed. Now that you haven’t found what you need, you are thinking in hindsight that he’s good enough.
That’s not the foundation of a good relationship. Stop looking at the past through rose-colored glasses, trust who you were when you decided that it wasn’t working, and keep it moving forward.
Anon
3:09 has it right. It’s unrealistic to expect that your next great relationship will happen immediately. It can take a very long time to meet the right person. The dating pool of people exactly right for you is small if you’re a unique and interesting person. That’s okay! Take your time and move forward. Don’t go back to what was wrong because you think that’s all there is.
Anon
I feel like this is in part why I stay with my boyfriend. Things are definitely not perfect and there are a lot of things that frustrate me but I know the grass is not greener on the other side. I’ve dated men who are the exact opposite of my boyfriend and they were much worse.
Anonymous
Old smug married here but: our relationship was very, very easy when I met my husband. No conflict, happy to be together, space for our own stuff, etc. If it isn’t easy, I’d break it off.
Anon
+1 but I also didn’t ever really have a goal or a vision or whatever as being married, having kids. I was more career focused and have always had a great group of girlfriends, close family relationships and when I was single never had issues finding gardening friends. I was happy being single and definitely wouldn’t have settled for something that was hard.
That said, I totally understand that some people very much want a partnership. And I agree that there are way more quality women then quality men out there. The sad reality is this means many women either have to settle or accept not having a partner. If having a partner is something that’s important to you, I honestly don’t get the hate on “settling”. We all make compromises based on our priorities and there’s nothing wrong with prioritizing having a partner.
Senior Attorney
Couldn’t agree with this more. After two marriages that were darned hard, my motto is “relationships should be easy, and if it’s not easy, it’s not the right relationship.” And also? The beginning is as easy as it’s ever going to be. If it starts off hard, run for the hills.
Grace
I think women tend to err on the side of not having high enough standards. I’m sure there are exceptions but I honestly don’t find women to be that picky in practice. Sure be realistic and all that but soo many women accept the bare minimum from men.
So I really hate when we tell women to lower their standards cause by and large those standards are already low.
Monday
+1. I can readily think of lots of women who I feel have expectations that are too low, and honestly none whose expectations I find too high. But, 2 more things:
–I have an old, very close friend who broke up with her partner of 12 years because she just wasn’t into the relationship. She had basically no complaints about him, nor did I. It doesn’t have to make sense; she wasn’t happy. She is now head-over-heels for someone else, and I don’t get it, but I don’t need to. It’s her life (and they didn’t have kids). He also deserves someone who isn’t just with him by default.
–The market logic/scarcity model of “not that many good men” only applies if you need a man. I know that being indefinitely single is a daunting prospect, at best, for most straight women. But I believe, and have acted on the belief, that it is always better than settling or putting up with BS. So it doesn’t matter if what you want in a man may not be available, because it doesn’t follow that you have to settle for something less.
Anonymous
Less about standards and more about expectations. By all means have high standards, but if a guy doesn’t meet them, you need to be realistic and consider moving on. Because people change when they want to, not when you want them to.
Anon
I spend a lot of time encouraging my women friends to feel comfortable with standards of decency, kindness, and functioning as an adult. They are wonderful women: kind, empathetic, absurdly smart, pretty, successful. As these things go, often people with the most to offer are the least certain of their own worth, a Dunning Kruger of dating.
Flip side, there are some snobby, picky women in my family of origin and good heavens they need to get over themselves. They really do expect to be worshipped for their own existence and it has caused a huge amount of misery. (Also caused a lot of financial destruction – they find themselves too good to live within their means.) Actual example: flunked out of college, has no career path, loves to throw verbal bombs at people, irresponsible, complained that her husband (engineer) did not get her a Tiffany engagement ring. “Every girl wants to be proposed to with a blue box.” She also doesn’t like that his degree is from the flagship state school.
Anon
+1
And so many men don’t even meet the bare minimum. The dating pool is shockingly terrible, you guys.
Mouse
It’s definitely a difficult line to walk. I feel people can be both 1. Too lenient when guys are sh*tty to them 2. Too rigid or inflexible about their requirements. It’s hard to decide what qualities are true dealbreakers and which are things you can live with! And these are different for everyone which makes it hard comparing peoples’ relationships – I often feel like it’s an apples and oranges situation.
For your friend, I can kind of relate. My husband has the same difficulties with expressing himself. BUT, he has shown me through his actions, and on the rare occasions, his words over time that he deeply cares about me and my feelings, even if he can’t express it all the time. For me, that was what was important. I can have the 3-hour-long feelings chats with my girlfriends, haha!
Grace
Ha yeah I do agree on rigid/inflexible height requirements. They always makes me roll my eyes but I am but a simple bisexual who doesn’t give a da&n about height
Senior Attorney
I’m 5’2″ so height is utterly immaterial to me. So I didn’t realize until it was much too late that one of Husband No. 2’s many issues was a huge chip on his shoulder about being “only” 5’7″.
Anon
I agree with this. I know lots of women who accept way too much in terms of men who treat them poorly. But I also know lots of women who were horrified when I married my husband because he’s shorter than me (not hard – I’m 6′) and he doesn’t read for fun. He’s a wonderful, kind, smart, funny, attractive guy who more than pulls his weight with household stuff and parenting – not easy to find! If you have those kind of rigid requirements you’re going to miss out on so many great guys and maybe settle for someone who doesn’t treat you as well as he should because he’s the only one you can find who checks your boxes on paper.
Anon
Gently, but this is the second time you posted about this, is there some reason you are so invested here? It sounds like you are too involved in your friend’s relationship or you are interested in the guy. Maybe something to think about.
Anonymous
Yes this.
Anon
Agree – sounds like you’re interested in the (ex)bf.
Senior Attorney
If so, I say go for it!
Anon
I have a few thoughts on this. First of all, since you weren’t in the relationship, you’re judging what it was like from the outside. It’s possible that he wasn’t treating her as well or had flaws that were red flags that your friend wasn’t articulating well (or just didn’t want to discuss).
Second, yes, your expectation reads to me as if she should settle. Maybe what she wants is a partner that she’s crazy about and who she’s super attracted to, and that chemistry just wasn’t there with this guy. Sometimes that is also a thing people can’t articulate and they end up just talking about vague or “silly sounding” problems. So, the thought that you should just work at it with someone who’s great on paper but that you don’t feel chemistry with IS saying that the person should settle for a relationship without the chemistry they want.
Also, yeah, everyone has flaws. But some flaws grate on folks more than others, you know? Sometimes you can’t change certain things you don’t like. Or it could be that your friend wasn’t in a place within herself that she needs to be in a relationship right now and she doesn’t realize that or doesn’t want to talk about it.
And, I co-sign the poster above who said that most women have standards that are on the floor or in the basement, so it would be very very unusual for me to think someone needed to change their standards.
anonshmanon
The way you described the situation, he WAS a catch and she didn’t know what a good thing she had. So, by that definition, she was not settling, although her view was clearly different than yours. I feel like being a sounding board (including a reality check or a voice of reason) is totally fine, that doesn’t mean that you are telling her what to do. It’s still her choice.
Anon
Instead of “settling,” what about thinking in terms of looking deeper for the positive qualities in someone? If you look around and see not that many great guys, what about looking closer at what might make them great? For example, the guy I married does not have a great career, but he has a great vocabulary and is very kind to animals, both of which are qualities I really appreciate. When the dating pool is shallow, you have to look deeper at the individuals in it and uncover the positive aspects of each individual.
Anon
Sometimes part of life is losing good people or not connecting with them at the right time, and that can be ok. I’m not sure how old you and your friend are. I think “settling” at age 25 may look very different than at 40.
Also, sometimes two good people just aren’t right for each other or the timing is off. I went on a horrible, horrible first date with my now husband, wrote him off entirely and didn’t think about him for a year while I dated a bunch of good-on-paper guys I didn’t feel anything for. We reconnected by total chance a year later, had a wonderful second first date, and have been married 12 years. There was nothing “wrong” with him the first time and nothing “wrong” with the intervening guys I dated – they just weren’t right for me, and it wasn’t the right time for us the first time around.
Anon
I’m just flabbergasted that you are invested enough in your friend’s relationship to post twice about it in this depth. Are you in love with this guy? Is this why you keep wanting affirmation that it’s all your friend’s fault? Why are you friends with someone you have so much contempt for?
Don’t try to make this a universal bad woman/good man issue. This is a you issue.
Anonymous
This.
Anon
You know, I think I agree with this. There’s something about both of these posts that’s a little weird to me. But, hey, if you are in love with the guy, he’s single now! Go for it!
OP
OP here – just to clarify why I’m curious about the topic. She and I are in a close friend group and we all live together, so the saga has taken up a lot of emotional energy in the house. I.e., we can’t really bring our boyfriends around without her voicing annoyance or say anything about our relationships in front of her. I think tip-toeing around it and having the somber/heartbreak energy imbue the house has definitely made this weigh more heavily on my mind than it otherwise might – sorry if it seems like I’m overly invested!
Apart from that, it was just interesting to read about people’s take on the lack of suitable men out there and I wanted to hear people’s thoughts. Especially with regards to compromise My BF and I had different communication styles when we first started dating, but it was kind of an opportunity for us to both grow. (He no longer gets defensive and is open to feedback; I now take responsibility for my own feelings and don’t make internal anxieties relational.). Sometimes I feel like a lot of the advice is geared toward breaking up with someone if there is any flaw, which makes me a bit sad since no one is perfect and I wonder where these supposed ideal, flawless people are to run to. But I also know tons of people who err on the side of letting tons of things slide for the sake of a spark, so I don’t want to act like everyone has overly high standards…
No Face
Yeah, just go date the guy already.
Anon
OP here – posted a longer comment in mod, but basically we are in a close friend group and we all live together, and the friend is a very high-emotional-needs person. So it’s taken up a lot of emotional space in the house / we can’t really talk about our own relationships or have our boyfriends around for the time being. We’ve been trying to support her to the best of our ability, but I think we’ve all been confused since some of the things haven’t seemed completely reasonable to us. I love my boyfriend and I feel like letting go of the idea of perfection has been really helpful for our relationship, which is why I’m curious about other people’s thoughts. But I get how it could seem like over-involvement! I definitely need to set better boundaries with this friend and not have as much time/energy spent trying to help her emotionally.
Anonymous
Oh my god you have to stop this. Draw boundaries. Set limits. You’ll trash your own life propping her up.
Aunt Jamesina
“Some of the things haven’t seemed completely reasonable to us”. They don’t need to seem reasonable to you. Trust your friend. I bet if you all stop talking about it, it won’t seem like such a big deal.
anon
Wait, you can’t have your own boyfriends over right now? She sounds like a loon.
Senior Attorney
OMG move out.
Anon
This is the best option! Move out at the end of your lease and if you can’t afford your own place, move out with another one of your roommates.
PLB
Seriously. Here I was thinking OP was single and lonely and looking and therefore feeling a way because her friend was throwing away a totally great guy. Sheesh.
OP
OP here – just to clarify why I’m curious about the topic. She and I are in a close friend group and we all live together, so the saga has taken up a lot of emotional energy in the house. I.e., we can’t really bring our boyfriends around without her voicing annoyance or say anything about our relationships in front of her. I think tip-toeing around it and having the somber/heartbreak energy imbue the house has definitely made this weigh more heavily on my mind than it otherwise might – sorry if it seems like I’m overly invested!
Apart from that, it was just interesting to read about people’s take on the lack of suitable men out there and I wanted to hear people’s thoughts. Especially with regards to compromise My BF and I had different communication styles when we first started dating, but it was kind of an opportunity for us to both grow. (He no longer gets defensive and is open to feedback; I now take responsibility for my own feelings and don’t make internal anxieties relational.). Sometimes I feel like a lot of the advice is geared toward breaking up with someone if there is any flaw, which makes me a bit sad since no one is perfect and I wonder where these supposed ideal, flawless people are to run to. But I also know tons of people who err on the side of letting tons of things slide for the sake of a spark, so I don’t want to act like everyone has overly high standards…
Anon
FWIW, I haven’t seen advice on this site to break up with someone for a difference in preferences. It’s always when it’s clear the poster (or partner) just isn’t into the relationship, if the partner really isn’t suitable, or if there’s actual abuse.
Anonymous
I don’t read daily so IDK if you’ve posted before or not but I’d caution you against assuming that you know what is REALLY going on inside their relationship or their bedroom. She may not even be lying to you in saying he’s not good at talking about his feelings, it just may be something SHE feels and can’t articulate better than that and it is a BIG deal long term. Frankly maybe she CAN articulate it better than that but doesn’t feel like she owes you an explanation with detailed examples that you can discuss one by one.
Anon
This is so true. I’m divorced and remarried happily now, but when my first husband and I split up, so many of my not-closest friends said “but he’s such a nice guy!” No one knows what is going on in anyone else’s relationship, because he very much was not a nice guy behind closed doors.
anon
+1 My mom wasn’t happy that I broke up with that “nice boy” and it was horrible to have her take his side and making me feel as though I had to defend my choices. On paper he was perfectly nice but there were small A.H0LE moments with just enough plausible deniability that would make me feel petty or crazy to say it out loud. My interactions with him and the aftermath interactions with mom still feel like emotional nails on chalkboard everytime I think about it.
Senior Attorney
Yeah, my mom preferred Husband No. 1 to me until the day she died. Largely because she never had to live with him.
Anon
My ex-stepmother always got a dopey grin on her face when reminiscing about an abusive boyfriend who cheated on me. Maybe a red flag about her, in hindsight.
anon
I have no idea whether your friend was a jerk to a nice guy or you’re unaware of deeper problems in their relationship. I believe you’re just sparking conversation online and there’s nothing weird about your question.
I’m single and many of my coupled friends think I’m picky. But I know what my core values are, I’ve dated enough to learn what values and lifestyle factors are compatible (notice that I say compatible, not identical), and I don’t like wasting my time on someone I know isn’t a good fit. Meanwhile my friends say “But he’s so nice!” as if that’s the sole factor in a happy long term relationship. Truthfully I think my friends put up with a lot of BS that I don’t have the patience for, I’d rather be single than settle for a man child who doesn’t want the same things from life, but to them it looks like I’m being too picky. I realize that this makes my pool smaller but I fear divorce or an unhappy marriage more than I fear being single at 30.
Anon
You’re in your 20s? Yeah your friends need to calm down.
Anon
As someone who was very content in my single life, my touchstone was “am I happier single?” It works for tempering unrealistic expectations as well as DTMFA-ing.
Anon
The whole “there’s just not that many great guys out there” trope is ridiculous. I dated for 20 years before I got married and dated plenty of great guys. They just weren’t great for me. That’s called having standards and knowing yourself. If you think it’s going to be easy and only take a date or two, that’s how you settle. But don’t fool yourself into a terrible relationship because you believed a bad meme.
Anon
Isn’t it just math? (Assuming we don’t want to date men who are “in prison” or “should be”?)
Anon
My point is you shouldn’t expect a smorgasbord of eligible men who are all perfect for you, there are plenty of decent people who are in the dating pool, but only a very small number of them will be right for any given person. It’s hard to meet your person because it is hard to sort through potential prospects. Thinking that all men are somehow prison bound, terrible, bottom dwellers makes women settle. You think “my goodness, he speaks in full sentences, let’s have babies” instead of considering all the things you should before embarking on a life with someone. The pond isn’t the problem, it’s a lack of willingness to toss fish back into it because you think you only deserve a crummy little fish.
Anon
I don’t think all men are terrible; I just think there are more eligible women than eligible men. Maybe it all works out in the end thanks to polygamists; I don’t really know.
Anonforthis
SOS — can anyone recommend an outfit in the Philly/South Jersey area that provides character-themed actors for kids’ parties? (e.g. a giant Cinderella or Elsa). I thought this would be easy to find, but when I search online all of the websites are super sketchy looking and no one respond to my requests for information! TIA!
Anon
Ask or search on the Main Line Parent Community on Facebook. I think much of that kind of thing is run via FB and those parents will know who’s good.
Mouse
Is it really as fun as it looks to be a “designer size,” meaning, you’re a clothing size that is available at any brand, any store, any designer? As someone who has never (even in adolescence) fit into that category, sometimes the jealousy is real, haha! I
Anon
In my 20’s I got really into fitness and I was mostly a sample size. It was fun going shopping but there were still plenty of clothes that didn’t suit me or that were too short. I did get some hot deals on designer clothes because I was the right size for the samples. The novelty of having awesome clothes wears off, though. I’m older and have had two kids now so my body is a lot different. I’m pretty comfortable with myself though maybe because I know what it felt like to be that ideal size. It was fine but there’s ultimately not much I’m missing out on.
Anon
I had a similar experience, though I’ve never been a true sample size. My usually cusp-sized self starvation dieted and worked out (eating disorder for the win) until my 5’11” frame was a size 6, sometimes a 4, sometimes an 8, and boy was I mad at the things I was an 8 in. I could shop the famous Neiman Marcus designer sale and find all kinds of things that fit me. I had an Armani suit. I had an Escada dress. I spent a lot of time feeling my jutting hip bones whenever I felt no one was watching, and I got that little frisson of joy of finally being acceptably thin.
Didn’t fix all (or any) of the problems in my life and definitely caused new ones, but yes! Shopping was a joy.
OP
I clarify, this is purely about being able to wear/shop for whatever I want, not about being a certain size body.
anon
Yes, i miss my old size 4 body and the clothes that fit it everyday lol
Anon
I wear a 0/2 and currently can usually fit into the smallest or second smallest size in most stores, and I’m shaped similar to a typical fit model so most things fit me pretty well. Even my wedding dress needed minimal alterations. When I was younger and 5-10lbs skinnier, smallest size in most brands was too big on me (I clearly remember that size 0 pants from banana republic were consistently too big on me in the mid-2000s).
I wouldn’t say it’s fun — my clothing budget is the same as it would be no matter my size. But it takes out a certain amount of friction out of the equation. If I take 10 things into a fitting room, chances are that 8 of them will fit well objectively. I’m pretty picky about clothes so it’s nice to be able to have a lot of options. Definitely a privilege when shopping, but if you look at my wardrobe, the end result is nothing special.
Anon
I’m you when you weighed 5-10 pounds less. My body is closer to a Kate Moss body type. It is not unusual for the smallest size to be too big or not fit the length I need. It was not fun when I was younger but now I’ve found clothes/stores that skew on the smaller side and usually the XS/00 will work.
ALT
I’m not this size anymore but when I was an XS/0/2, it was easy to buy clothes because the smallest size typically fit straight off the rack. I didn’t have to guess if I was going to fit in the size 8 or the size 10 better, if I should get the medium or the large, or spend much time staring at myself in the mirror to see where a larger size could be taken in to fit better. It was almost grab and go, which was nice.
Now I never know what size will fit, so I spend much more time in fitting rooms and do feel a bit of angst when none of the sizes I’ve brought into the fitting room fit and I have to go back for a larger size.
Anon MCS
Not the same, but I have multiple chemical sensitivity and the formaldehyde or finish in new clothes and makes me very sick so I have to buy either organic, GOTS certified dyed clothes or get help to go through a long ‘decontamination’ process and even then there’s no guarantee that they will be safe for me to wear, so I empathise about not being able to buy clothes simply and easily.
anon
I’m fully convinced that clothes are produced to fit nobody. I’m a size four but am short with a large chest and sometimes I bring 20 items into a fitting room and not one fits. I know that even having clothes to try on in my size is a privilege that some people don’t have, but I just wish the fashion industry would widen options in many ways. Bigger, smaller, shorter, taller, for apples, for pears, etc.
Anon
Size 6 hourglass and I agree. It is less difficult for me than for other women, but it’s still a challenge.
Anon
They sure as heck do not fit half the models these days. I’ve wondered if they’re trying to reset expectations.
Anonymous
Size 2 here. I am long-waisted with an athletic figure (no curves) and nothing fits me without alterations. Men’s clothing sizes make so much more sense. On shirts you choose sleeve length, neck size, and trim or full cut. Etc.
OP
What’s interesting to me about the responses to me thus far, is that while many folks talk about how things often don’t fit (fair!) even when they are a sample/smaller sized, they take that to mean “it doesn’t flatter my shape” or “not designed for my larger hips/bust” etc., vs meaning (in my case) that they literally have no size I can put on. Different perspectives!
anon
I’ve experienced this while shopping for bridesmaid dresses (the made-to-order kind). The store only carries a size 10 or 12 while I’m a 2. I don’t have a clue what my correct size is, whether that size will actually fit, or if it will be flattering. And of course the dresses have a five month lead time, final sale only. This drove me nuts the few times I experienced it so I can only imagine how frustrating it would be on a regular basis!
OP
Appreciate your sympathy! I had a really hard time trying on wedding dresses because of this problem – most sample dresses were too small for me, and so you have to “imagine” what it would look like. Even worse, a lot of store would only let me try on the plus size samples, which eliminated 75% or more of their available stock from even being considered.
But in regular ready-to-wear stores, the bummer is real when I don’t even bother shopping somewhere because I have been completed excluded from their line. At least if an item is too big, you can alter it to fit.
Anon
OP, I get where you’re coming from, but when you’re 22 and living on a 30k salary in NYC, getting the clothes you need for work professionally altered is not an option. It sucks when you can’t find clothes that fit, period, end of sentence.
Anon
I’ll take the question at face value, and say it’s a matter of price (rather than whether the garment is made in my size) that restricts my owning all of the fabulous clothes. I’m told it’s pretty fun to be rich, though!
Anonymous
What is everyone’s gut saying for this election? (Or is it still too early for that)? I’m in NE Ohio and seeing way more signs for the Ds (Tim Ryan especially). Still lots of Trump signs and “F Joe Biden” signs but I literally don’t think I’ve seen one sign for Vance (or DeWine, for that matter, but I feel like that’s an uphill battle anyway).
Courts are a big one this election for us, though, and I’m very nervous since the judges that matter don’t have party affiliation on the ballot.
Anon
I’m pretty pessimistic about the whole thing. I obviously followed the 2020 election very very closely and donated to tons of candidates. I’m in NJ and it generally goes blue. I plan to vote but I’m not that worried/concerned. I’m mostly burnt out.
Keystone
It’s so tricky because I live in Philly so it’s very blue, but the rest of the state is purple / red so I never know how it will go in PA!
Keystone
And also, I CANNOT WAIT for the political ads to be done!!!
Anonymous
Same, and also the texts.
Anon
I remember a story after the 2020 election told by a man whose parents saw nothing but Trump signs so they couldn’t believe he lost the election. Not everyone acts like their preferred candidate is some sort of star they need to worship. We don’t all put out lawn signs. But we vote.
Base your predictions on the best polls you can find.
Anonymous
How can it not go red? Yes I know Roe but at the end of the day we are at the cusp of or already in a recession and people vote with their wallets.
Anon
So sad that people vote in the best interest of their wallets over basic human rights. Proud to be a Democrat.
Anonymous
I understand what you’re saying but I do wonder if this board really understands how it is in middle America right now. Here if a tank of gas or groceries start costing an extra $35 per week, we may roll our eyes or maybe we pare back our budgets by ordering out one less time per week. There are a ton of people out there who literally do not have any way to come up with that $35 extra. If you don’t believe me, look at the figures on credit card debt right now – highest it’s been in our history, ever. I’m not saying GOP fixes this AT ALL, but human nature is to say – this party isn’t cutting it, let’s try the other. And in that decision making process things like human rights become academic compared to day to day things like money.
Anon
But the GOP doesn’t help those people. The GOP generally helps the very wealthy. The people you mentioned would do better voting for democrats who want to raise the money wage, make health care accessible, reproductive freedom, etc. The GOP will keep people in poverty. It’s the wealthy people voting to maintain their wealth and the poor people voting against their own interest.
Anonymous
I totally agree 352 – if you’re struggling to come up with an extra $35 for groceries, then GOP tax cuts for the top percentiles aren’t going to help you. Yet I’m the one who posted above and I think human nature is what it is and people DO vote against their interests.
Anon
Live in middle America and can confirm. Talking to the mom of my son’s friend – she had $10 to get her through a week. I emptied my wallet of cash on the spot. I’ve bought diapers and paid water bills for strangers on the local mom’s group. Ends that used to just meet are not meeting anymore.
Anon
I earn way, way less than most people here (thought I’m still objectively comfortable compared to many) and live in middle America. I vote blue. GOP just cuts taxes for the wealthy. It doesn’t help me and certainly doesn’t help people who are poorer than me. And there’s the whole, you know, I don’t want to live under a fascist dictator thing.
Anon
Not from the USA but watch with horror as people vote against their own best interests and say it’s because of the ‘economy’ yet the Republicans have note shown to be good economic managers for anyone except mega millionaires.
Grace
Dems lose ground (likely the House) but it’s not a red wave due to bad GOP candidates and Trump not being on the ballot
Anon
I haven’t really kept up with gerrymandering since it won’t affect how I vote, but last I checked my whole voting district was gerrymandered off the map.
Anon
Mine literally was, and my congressman, who has historically brought home quite a bit of federal money, projects and jobs is very likely to be voted out in favor of a culture warrior from the hard right who has consistently acted against the interests of his own constituents and is an actual doctor who votes against any attempts to expand health coverage.
Eek
Honestly? Panicked. Lots of red wins. I hope I’m wrong.
Seventh Sister
I suspect a bunch of reliably blue CA races (especially state and local) will go to moderates and conservatives. There is a lot of anger and frustration about homelessness, crime (really, perception of crime), and how badly the schools handled COVID closures.
Anon
It’s going to be a huge red wave but I’m hopeful that will help Biden or whoever the Dem candidate is in 2024. I fear that two more years of fully Democratic control without much progress would just lead to a backlash against Dems in 2024 when it matters more. A Republican House will get bogged down in things that aren’t popular (like impeaching Biden and trying to pass national anti-abortion laws) and people will want them out in 2024. Hopefully.
Anon
Back in the 90s, as a teenager, I bought a second hand velvet blazer this colour, made in the 70s. I wore it it a lot back then and still have it. Going to check on it today, it’s been in hibernation for a few years!
Shelle
Sounds divine!!
HFB
SAME. I wore it almost every day, with black cat eye glasses that had rhinestones and lavender lenses. Plus a stack of jelly bracelets and chunky rings on every finger. I was way too cool and Not Like Other Girls ™ to wear thepreppy Abercrombie stuff that was in style. I too still have my velvet blazer and am hoping to find somewhere to wear it now.
Anon
Loved hearing you still have yours too! Can just imagine those glasses. I also had the chunky rings and the Docs.
HFB
You actually wore Docs? Ugh, poser. (Just kidding!)
Anne-on
NYC ‘rettes, plan my day for me! I’ve got some time (9am-3pm) to myself on a weeekday in NYC next month before an event kicks off (before Thanksgiving so no holiday windows to browse). Staying in midtown east (boring but central). I don’t really need clothes, and I have a massage booked for after the event as a reward for the crazy hours I’ll be pulling. I was thinking of popping into the new Hermes flagship and picking up a new perfume at Bergdorf’s. Since I’ll be in the area I might wander through MoMa. Any other ideas for a low key relaxing day?
anon
LV has an exhibit of some sort in the old Barney’s space. Looks like it’s worth a browse.
NYNY
If the weather is nice, I would go to either Mah ze Dahr or Ole & Steen to pick up breakfast pastries to go, then walk to Greenacre Park on 51st between Second & Third avenues to enjoy them and watch people. Greenacre is a pocket park, tucked away mid-block between two buildings, but it has an amazing waterfall and the plantings are refreshed every week, so they always look amazing (courtesy of the Rockefeller Foundation, who owns the park.)
OP
Why does it feel like the hiring process is so much more demanding these days if supposedly there are so many openings for workers? I just went through SEVEN interviews with a dream company plus an extensive at-home project that dragged out across the summer only to be told now that they are no longer recruiting for the position and it may open up again after the new year. I knew it was a long shot (heck, even landing the first interview was exciting), but it’s just so disappointing after so many rounds. In the meantime, a former colleague recommended me to the CEO of another company that was opening a similar position. Not nearly the same dream company but would be really interesting work and the opportunity to make a difference in my field. I interviewed with CEO, SVP and VP–only to wait several months and then be told the position was going to be posted and I needed to fill out an application (was encouraged by CEO and VP separately through direct message to apply). Then went on to interview with HR, VP (AGAIN), complete a take-home project and sit for a panel interview. All told, that has eaten up more than 5 months now. Waiting to hear back from the panel round but kind of feeling far less jazzed about things. It sort of makes me wonder how disorganized things might be within the company, and, if I’m being totally honest, I also feel like I’ve been strung along.
I know I should probably start applying elsewhere since current job is MISERABLE. But I am just exhausted and feeling kind of disheartened.
Is this what interviewing is like these days?
Anon
At some places, sure. Not all companies have terrible hiring practices, but there sure are a lot that do.
Anon
your experiences sound like those my prior employer made candidates for one particular department go through. They had really high turnover in that dept so they concluded they were hiring the wrong candidates. Their solution was making all candidates go through a series of tests (IQ, EQ & specific skills), do a time consuming project, present their problem to upper management, and finally, interview with the CEO, with whom they would have zero interaction with in the actual role.
When the rare successful candidate landed one of these roles, they inevitably hated it because it was much lower level work than they’d been led to believe, and their management was completely dysfunctional. Most were miserable and 100% had their feelers out for other jobs. Turnover remained high. In this case, it was management lying to themselves that the candidates were the problem rather than the job and themselves being the problem.
Anne-on
If you’re interested in moving faster, have you checked out FAANG companies? I did an interview at one and though I did speak with 9 people (plus the immediate hiring manager and my would-be boss for periodic debriefs/check-ins) but it was all (to me) lightning fast – 3 weeks from initial HR contact to offer. I turned the role down but from chatting with colleagues tech companies are known for very quick interview to offer process – it’s one of the easiest ways for them to increase offer acceptance, they make offers before the traditional folks get their act together!
Anon
Not currently looking but was a few months ago. The answer, for me, is setting boundaries and asking questions from the outset about how long the process is going to take, and what it’s going to involve. Straight up, I would not have done seven interviews, unless I was interviewing for a cabinet position in the Biden administration or something. A long time ago I ruled out “take-home projects” because I saw several instances where people essentially did free consulting for a company and had their work product stolen. So I don’t do those, and if a company insists on making that part of the process (especially if they’re vague about what they plan to do with the product, or the timeline of the interview process) I just decline, and if that’s the end of the line with that company, so be it.
When I was interviewing, I would ask, can you describe what the interview process will be? If they were vague, or said something about more than three or four interviews, I would be on guard. I interviewed with one company that wanted to keep going after my fourth interview (which was with the SVP of the division); when they contacted me back to keep going but couldn’t tell me how many more interviews I’d have to do or how much longer the process would take, I just said, “I am already at advanced stages of interviewing with other companies who have indicated they are ready to make me an offer, and so I don’t have the bandwidth to keep interviewing with you, sorry. If you want to make an offer, I am very open to that conversation.” That was the end of that. A friend did this – tapped out of the process after four interviews when the company was still acting like it was trying to make up its mind – and they were like, whoa whoa whoa, don’t go away, we want to make you an offer! I honestly think sometimes they’re trying to figure out how much you’ll put up with. And the answer should be: not anything unreasonable. Because you deserve better.
There are honestly so many parallels between job hunting and dating. One of which is, if people are dragging their feet, or sitting on the fence about whether you’re the person they’re looking for, that’s a good sign you’re not, and it’s best for you to just move on. Jobs that have been a good fit for me are ones where the interview process was 3 or 4 interviews and it moved to offer stage pretty quickly. The employer kept in touch and kept making sure I was available, said things like “please let us know ASAP if you get an offer from someone else because we want to have our opportunity to make you an offer,” etc. No matter how much a company seems like your “dream company,” if they’re not into you (or can’t get their act together) they are not your dream company. Just like your dream guy (or gal, or person) is not your dream anything if they’re not into you. Set boundaries for yourself around what you’ll tolerate and what you want. The process gets a lot easier from there.
Anonymous
Thank you so much for this. I plan to keep a copy of this advice, so I can come back to it when I need to. I am a good catch, and I think I needed a good reminder of that after the past few months. I need to remember I’m “interviewing” them as much as they are interviewing me and reset accordingly.
Anon
Yes the take home project sound like they want free labor from you. Don’t do it!
anon
Last year a few companies wanted me to do those video “interviews” where the questions pop up on the screen and you record your answers. For the very first round before a phone screen! No I’m not investing that much time before I’ve talked to a human about the basics of the role. It was also a turnoff that they couldn’t spend 10 minutes on the phone but expected me to go through a full interview. I accepted an offer from a company that did a quick phone screen followed by three interviews. They sent the offer within a month of the phone screen.
pugsnbourbon
I can’t imagine those video or phone things are at all useful when hiring! At least they can’t be more useful than that 10-minute phone screen, like you said.
Anon
What you have experienced sounds terrible and it would be a red flag for me (company that grew slow, twisted in its own procedures, irrelevant and ignorant to needs of people).
I have had my fair share of weird interviews this year, but also a few good ones.
Weirdos: Interviewing for a global pharma company, passed through a first round and a case study, but the department head did not participate as he was on holidays. He wanted his HR and a person from another department to lead the interviews and create a shortlist for him when he’s back. In the end, he chose an external candidate. I have zero regrets as I treated these interviews as a pilot, but I was shocked they did not consider it weird that a candidate didn’t have a chance to even meet the line manager during the process. Even if they came with an offer, I wouldn’t accept it.
Another weird thing some other line manager pulled out was hogging 95% of time on our first interview. She graciously allowed me 5mins to talk about myself and to ask one question.
My personal favorite was an HR head who lied over an email. I have filled in online application and instead of politely rejecting with an autoreply he sent an email saying: we had a great phone conversation, but they decided to go with a different candidate. Wanted to tell you on the phone, but couldn’t catch you. I politely thanked for feedback, message received, said it must be a busy Friday as we never spoke on the phone, but no problem, cheers and have a great weekend. He had the [email protected] to reply “of course we never spoke and in simpler words, you were overqualified for this role”. I was really surprised a senior HR would write this, must be a great place to work.
My latest experience was with a Dutch company that did a short phone screen with HR, one interview with a line manager followed by a simple case study, followed by a call with head of department.
But overall I agree with OP: despite what you keep hearing about this being the employee market – I don’t see this translated neither in the interview process, nor in the conditions.
Anon
I’m sad that the option available in plus is so awful compared to the main pick. As usual.
Anon
Yeah that ASOS one is bad…
anon
I ordered this one from Talbots. Eagerly waiting for it to arrive.
https://www.talbots.com/velveteen-blazer/P224019511.html?cgid=plus-size-jackets-and-outerwear&dwvar_P224019511_color=INDIGO%20BLUE&dwvar_P224019511_sizeType=WO#start=1
Anon
I’m the OP from this morning/Friday’s decision post. Thanks for the feedback. I know in my soul that what you have suggested is the right thing to do, but I am having such a hard time moving forward. There have been other issues that have lead me this direction as well. The last few months have been better and I was at the point where maybe I could handle staying. I have a hard time thinking of not being with my kids every day and how they will react to the upheaval this would put in their lives. I would appreciate any thoughts or suggestions. Coming to you with a very heavy heart.
No Face
You are at the beginning of a hard journey but the other side will be so much better for you and your kids!
My parents’ relationship was *terrible.* My mom ended things and I observed her rebuild her life. It gave me a lot of confidence in my strength as a woman. It is better to be alone than with a man who treats you poorly, and knowing that let me leave bad relationships fast. Now my mom is doing great, I am doing great. Neither of us speak to my dad or even think about him much!
Cat
Your kids will learn that being alone is better than being abused. This is a brave step you need to take for yourself and for them.
Anon
I grew up in a house with a father who was emotionally abusive. My mother never left him for reasons I totally understand, but it was profoundly damaging to me. I’m still in therapy disentangling the whole situation. I promise your kids can see what’s going on. They might be on the receiving end of his silent treatment sometimes (I was certainly a victim of my father’s rage).
There’s no world where I would have been upset with my mother for leaving or where I wouldn’t have understood why.
I hope this perspective helps.
brokentoe
Can you truthfully tell yourself that you are modeling the relationship dynamics you want your kids to find in their future relationships? Because you are normalizing and accepting behavior that I doubt you would hope to see in their future partners.
Anon
I left my ex 5 years ago. Yesterday, my kid told my (new) husband that she’ll only marry someone if they love her as much as he loves mommy (me).
You are setting an example for your kids. The relationship they see you in is going to be the model for their relationships as adults. If it’s not good enough for your kids, it’s not good enough for you.
And yes, it’s hard not seeing your kids everyday. It really is. But the other side of the coin is having the time to yourself to re-learn how to be your own person and to take care of yourself, and that is amazing, and your kids will get the benefit of that. Some of the road is going to be hard, but living they way you live now is hard too, and in one of the options you know it’s going to get better and in the other you know it won’t.
Anon
Beautiful story and beautifully said.
Senior Attorney
Yes to all of this!
Not gonna say it’s not gonna be hard. It’s gonna be hard, and sad. After I left my second husband I literally woke up weeping every day for months. But I kept telling myself “the only way out is through,” and “this time next year things will be better.” And I was right on both counts. It is hard not seeing your kids every day, but as others have said, the secret upside of divorce is that you do get some days and nights to yourself and it’s kind of great. And you definitely do not want your kids to learn that an emotionally abusive marriage like yours is normal.
You can do this and life on the other side is going to be SO MUCH BETTER. Big hugs to you, OP. You can do this.
Dr. The Original ...
CONGRATULATIONS! I know, I know, that sounds weird or glib or even offensive right now. However, this is the time when you are realizing your worth, you are realizing your boundaries, and you are beginning to build a life that teaches your kid(s) how they deserve to be treated. This is the time when you are aware that your days of walking on eggshells are numbered. This is the time when you’ll be looking back on this moment with the pride of “I could have let it ruin me and I didn’t let it.” Your kid(s) will be so much better for coming from a strong parent than living in a home that is broken. Plus, depending on the age/stage of kid(s), custody may not be a 50/50, it may be that it means you’ll get some days to work on yourself and prioritize yourself, which you’ll certainly have long needed after spending so much time with someone who made you second guess yourself. Plus, this is the part that sucks the most which means your future is going to be better than today, so since you are surviving today, you already know that you’ll survive everything else and that soon you’ll be thriving!
As someone who is not always great with boundaries, I am so grateful that you are modeling healthy self-esteem, healthy boundaries, and how to get a better life when the one someone else set up isn’t working for you. So many of us here are in awe of you in your decision and will remain in awe of you as you build a better life. So many others of us here have done this already and they know that you can do it too. I am so so excited for the days when you become like Senior Attorney and post about how happy you are in your life and we can remember when you weren’t so happy and be so so thrilled for you. Please let us help you pick out furniture or future dating outfits or right hand rings or whatever other beautiful things your new life will bring! Even if you can’t see that future yet, it is absolutely in your near future and if you want to bet me a soda or something on that being true, I’ll happily take the bet and happily collect on it very soon. <3
Senior Attorney
YES
anonshmanon
this must be so hard for you, my heart goes out to you, and I hope you will continue to reach out when you need encouragement!
Anon
Can you post which city you are in? Would love to buy you a drink or a coffee if you ever need a listening ear!
Anon
Any recent purchases that you’re really happy with?
I’ll start – Talbots straight leg corduroy pants in navy. I’m tall and they’re long enough (flats length) and I haven’t worn corduroy since high school. But they’re making me happy. After all, corduroy is the fabric of kings!
JM
I wear nothing but corduroy to work anymore. I have all the colors and with heeled booties they are fine in my higher ed office.
Anon
Title Nine bathing suits. I never knew a bathing suit could look good on me, let alone one so comfortable and resistant to moving around.
Kelsey
We’ve had many discussions here about siblings, but I never had sister that’s close to my age so I’m reaching out for advice on this situation. One of my teenage girls is being mean to her sister. They are very close in age and go to the same school and have an overlapping group of friends. Apparently the old one has said something not nice about the younger one about the younger one’s appearance in front of other people and it’s happened more than once. I will be confronting the older daughter today. I’m not sure what to say except to tell her to cut it out and if anything, she should be the person that shuts down this type of talk and not just the one contributing to making her sister feel bad about herself (younger one has low self-esteem and I can’t figure out why). I also want to say that someday their dad and I will be gone and they’ll just have each other so they’ll need to learn to look out for each other, but is that too morbid? How do I get the point across here? Older girl is generally a good kid except for this issue and they used to be the best of friends until adolescence kicked in.
Cat
fwiw, close-in-age siblings often go through a battling phase in their teens. I don’t know anyone who got along really well with their 1-or-2-years-apart sister in HS, though they grew closer as they got older!
aside from the general scolding… maybe ask older daughter why she felt the need to be cruel? Like – did she want to impress someone else by being witty? Make herself look good by comparison? Was sister irritating her and it was a knee-jerk ‘I’ll get her for that’ reaction? Older needs to practice ways to get over those feelings in a way that’s not hurtful or escalating.
Vicky Austin
Ooh, that’s dicey. My sisters and I never shared a friend group, but I did embarrass my sister in front of a few of her friends who were in the same activities I was and knew we were related, and then went tattling back to my sister about what I did (sigh).
I don’t know if it will be entirely productive to tell your older daughter that she and her sister will be each other’s only family members someday. I definitely would emphasize that she may not have to like her sister all the time, but she should not engage in or allow this kind of talk about her sister. Sort of the college roommate advice I was given – you don’t have to be BFFs, but you do have to live together so it’s best if you’re polite and mature!
Anonymous
Having grown up in this dynamic, you need to come down hard on the older one. Your choice whether you punish her now or warn her harshly now that if she does it again, she will be grounded or whatever. It shows your younger one that you have her back.
Bigger picture though, I’d try to separate them a bit. Sure they have to go to the same school, but do they have to have the same friends? Are there different activities they’re interested in? I’m not suggesting that you pull either away from this friend group as it’ll seem like punishment, but there’s nothing wrong with having a few friends from a few activities or classes that are just THEIRS, don’t know their sister, and don’t compare them as sisters all the time.
YMMV but you guys will only have each other never did anything for me and still doesn’t. In all reality they won’t NEED their sibling because they’ll have their own husbands and kids. But even in my reality of NOT being married with kids, guess what I still have nothing in common with my sibling and have polite surface level conversations with her and she knows little about the real me because guess what she is STILL mean when she wants to be all these decades later. So I say cut the threatening regarding only having each other and quash the meanness – that’ll get them WANTING to spend time together down the road.
Mouse
I don’t think you need to drag your eventual death into it – but having a calm, mature conversation with her about treating her sister kindly (and how that’s appropriate no matter how annoying someone is) is important, and a relevant skill for all areas of life. Treat people how she wants to be treated and all. And if she does it again, there will be consequences/lost privileges. And the rules go the same way for her sister.
Anon
This was the dynamic between my younger siblings. My parents shut it down HARD. Older (mean) sister got told this was completely unacceptable. That bullying was never okay but bullying your own sister was even worse. And that if they heard so much as a whisper it had happened again, they were going to conclude that she was being poisoned by her friend group, social media and media in general and all of those things would be going away for at least 3 months.
Since they had previously taken away her phone, her TV and computer privileges (unless she needed it for school and was being actively monitored), grounded her on weekends, and picked her up at school and made her sit in their offices (they took turns) after school for a month as punishment for skipping school, she believed them.
Then they told her is she was unhappy enough to be taking it out on her sister, they were happy to talk and try to address whatever was causing that, but that she did not get to take her issues out on her family. (And she was very unhappy; middle school was not kind)
It did not make them closer, although they are close now. But it did take care of the bullying. Good luck!
Anne-on
Wow. Good for your parents. My cousin (who we saw all.the.time growing up) bullied me to the point of tears constantly (in between wanting to be my best friend?) and the adults did nothing. As an adult she is SO SAD that we are not closer and constantly bemoans how ‘busy’ I am and how ‘sad’ it is that we don’t see each other more…uh, I am not that busy and all of that is by design.
Anon
My parents were NOT MESSING AROUND on the disciplinary aspects of parenting. I mean – they never hit us and rarely raised their voices, but they had clear expectations for behavior and enforced those without mercy and at considerable personal inconvenience.
I once got caught smoking (tobacco) at school had the fun of being literally walked to my first class every day and then picked up immediately after school to sit in their office. (And I was serving “in school suspension” which meant I had to report to the library for lunch – the school would have been happy with a week but extended it at my parents’ request.) One of them was with any time I was not at home or in class 24/7 for a month. Never did that again!
And I realize that makes them sound harsh but they are great parents. Fun, attentive and supportive. They did not have a lot of rules – but the rules they had were to be followed.
Anon
I would focus on the bullying aspect. We’re always hearing from the moms whose kids are being bullied, and are white hot mad at the bully’s parents, but we rarely hear from the parents of a bully. At least you’re recognizing this now, and you have one of each. If your older daughter is mean about her sister in a group of friends that includes her sister, then she’s probably perfectly comfortable being mean about other girls who are lower on the totem pole. Use the word bully. They’ve been hearing about bullying in school since they were in kindergarten, I guarantee you.
anon
As someone with a very close in age sibling, I implore you to encourage and find ways for them to have access to separate groups of friends sometimes. Different activities, camps, summer jobs, anything. When you have a sibling like this, you feel like you have no escape from them. Yes it would be nice for them to be best friends but I feel like you may be forcing this expectation upon them. When you and your husband are gone, they may be close and they may not be.
Seventh Sister
I don’t think that’s too morbid, but there are a lot of adult siblings who aren’t that close. What I say to mine is, “Someday, you two are going to have to team up against ME when it’s time for me to go to a home and I just want to wander around and smell all the babies in the supermarket!” Having watched my mom handle eldercare for my very stubborn grandmothers, it really was a LOT easier when the siblings agreed about the situation and could present a united front for moving into Shady Acres Senior Living or whatever.
My two are about that age, and while I let them bicker, I also have to tell them to knock off being mean to each other from time to time. And it’s so hard – I don’t think of my eldest as a mean girl but sometimes she says stuff to her brother and I think to myself, “it’s like the second coming of Regina George with a side of Cersei Lannister.”
Anon
Wait, I already want to smell all the babies in the supermarket. Is it time for a home?
Seventh Sister
Oh goodness no. I’m just kind of baby-crazy and already embarrass my kids by chatting with new moms in the checkout line. All baby heads are delicious for smelling. :)
Anonymous
My sister and I are five years apart, and she was mean to me often. I was a really ugly kid, and a very attractive adolescent, which was a big problem. My parents were too dysfunctional to ever address it, but an aunt told us “remember your sister is the only person that you”ll likely know your entire life.” That avoided the issue of my parents dying but made the same point.
I’m no expert, but please address it. Many, many years later I still remember some of mean comments and one memorable occasion of finger shaped bruises on my arms. My sister and I are close today, but I still remember. She also feels guilty about some of it, which is a heck of a burden for 40 something years.
Anon
“(younger one has low self-esteem and I can’t figure out why)”
Because her older sister is rude AF to her.
Anon
I would just focus on shutting down the bullying behavior. You don’t need to tell the older one it’s because she’ll only have her sister one day. It doesn’t have anything to do with why she shouldn’t be mean and it’s also not necessarily true. One or both of them might make other close bonds with people they don’t share DNA with.
Anon
How do you handle anxiety about being disliked or being a nuisance when you logically know you are handling something correctly? I have a neighbor noise problem in which numerous neighbors have also complained and employees in the apartment complex have witnessed it firsthand. Even the city has sent a noise ordinance document due to complaints. As such, I know I am not wrong to complain too. However, I was the only one who spoke with the neighbor directly (before complaining to the office) so now neighbor thinks it’s all coming from me and is intentionally hateful. Plus the office asked for a complaint each time the noise occurred so they can document and likely provide a 7 day notice to remedy, but it feels like I am bothering them. I also think things are worse as the noise is preventing sleep and rest, so I am already on edge more. But I DO know that the anxiety around being a bother or not being liked when I voice a boundary is an issue for me in general.
I do have a therapist and will bring this up next session, just wondering what others have done or if I am alone in this experience.
Anon
Ohhhh boy, are you not alone!!
The most helpful framing for me (from years of therapy) is that it is not my job to control others’ feelings, and how someone feels about me is none of my business.
So as long as I am behaving reasonably and like a good person (which, you are!!!), what the other person does with that is on them. If they’re mad, it says a lot more about them than you.
It’s difficult to rewire this impulse, but it can be done with practice. Good luck!
Anon
If you posted about the dog noise last week, you should proceed with whatever management is asking you to do. You are not bothering them; this is their job and the process they have to follow. As to your neighbor being upset, don’t worry about it. That is easier said than done, but try to remember that you have no relationship with her, no history, and nothing to lose. Can you avoid her? If she’s texting you block her. You owe her nothing.
Anon
Don’t have any contact with the neighbor and continue reporting the noise. If it’s that bad and you live in a rental, look into other options.