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Anon
Do you ever get frustrated at random and unnecessary edits by a senior associate that just feel like a waste of time? It seems to always come from an insecure person with a huge ego. I recently turned in a draft form to this senior associate only to have it marked up with pointless edits that do not add anything at all substantive or clarifying. Eg. The person got rid of “the,” added a comma here and there, crossed out the judge’s full name so that only his last name was referenced. None of the changes he made was actually correcting anything wrong! Oh, and he told me to get rid of his esignature on something just so he could sign it (where he previously used esignatures in other filings). He basically made me waste an hour of my time redoing these forms making “corrections” that were not mistakes in the first place. I had previously used the same forms for a partner, who did make any changes.
A part of me is wondering if he is trying to get rid of my by doing this. It feels like he is trying really hard to come up with arbitrary edits on my drafts as a way of making a point. He also dropped the markups on my desk in a really obnoxious manner. We had lunch when I first joined the firm, and he seemed really insecure over the fact that he did not go to a top law school but I did.
Anon
Yeah, sorry, this is Big Law. Assuming you can bill for the corrections, he’s not really wasting your time.
anonymous
+1
Yeah, welcome to biglaw. Lemme tell you about the time I got chewed out for many, many minutes about accidentally leaving a page break in a draft of a 30 page document we’d been pouring over and scrutinizing for days.
“We had lunch when I first joined the firm, and he seemed really insecure over the fact that he did not go to a top law school but I did.”
LOL okay OP.
Anon
Lol – yes. People who go to top law schools put *a lot* of stock into it. They haven’t caught on that most people don’t care.
Anon
OP here. I truly don’t care and don’t even have a frame of my diploma in my office. He constantly brought this up at our lunch, so I’m certain he is insecure about this. The fact is when you are a minority woman who has great credentials, some white men who do not automatically have a distaste for you. But I’m just venting here.
Anon at 9:44
I’m a minority woman as well. You are doing yourself no favors with this mindset.
anon
Believe me, I get that white men are prone to bristle at women, minorities, and especially women minorities. But what he did with this document is 100% par for the course in biglaw, and, as someone pointed out below, might actually be more substantive than you think. Not sure how junior you are, but if you want to last in this environment, I urge you to reframe your response to feed back like this and avoid falling into the trap of seeing insecurity/persecution everywhere. Insecure or not, top law school or not, it’s reasonable to conclude that he is doing at least something right in the firm’s eyes as he has become a senior associate with responsibility to manage juniors.
anon
+1 to the commenter who said you are doing no favors for yourself w/this mindset. I’m also a WOC who went to a top law school (HYS), two federal clerkships, etc. and now, 15 years out of law school, I can tell you that almost no one cares. Don’t give it more value than it’s worth.
Anonymous
Omg page breaks. I personally prefer to wait until all edits are in to insert the appropriate breaks/spacing/etc. It’s such a waste of time to redo page breaks in the draft every time someone makes an edit. Just wait until the end! But yeah some partners do not understand this concept. Every draft they see should be “final” even though it’s not.
Anonymous
Yes, every draft the partner sees should be final. Nothing gets me angrier than this. Fixing page breaks is such a small thing. Make it look finished. Partners see and note that kind of stuff. I work more with associates who do this.
Anon Small Law
That’s the difference between big and small law. Small law can’t bill clients like that and partners don’t want you to. It is way more substance than form. It is up to an assistant to finalize it for signature and that means fixing page breaks and all that. At my small firm we clarify if something is being reviewed for substance or signature. They mean two different things.
anon
I’m the page break associate. The first draft I provided was final (as I had been trained to do when I clerked) and had no page break screw ups; we went through rounds of revisions and somehow one appeared when I implemented some minor revisions to the draft. I did not lay eyes on each page after printing the draft to check for errant page breaks that I did not expect to have appeared, and that’s why it didn’t get caught. (Also, nothing gets you angrier than this? Nothing?)
Daisy
“Assuming you can bill for the corrections, he’s not really wasting your time.”
Amen. This is something that is oddly freely about BigLaw. There should be no task that is too redundant, tedious, or pointless, as long as you’re not overloaded generally, because you get “credit” for every bit of it.
anon
Yes, one million times, yes, this should be OP’s mindset.
anon
That’s quite the story you’re telling yourself about him. Whether or not its true, it doesn’t matter. If you’re better than he is, it will shake out over time. In the meantime, put on a podcast, take some deep breaths, roll your eyes once, and make these super simple and easy edits.
Ellen
I agree. It could be exactly like the complaining OP said about senior associate. He could be insecure, but more likely, he needs to bill for something, and having a young female associate’s work to edit will provide HIM with the billeable hours he needs. On the other hand, the young minority female associate who went to a prestigous law school is probably not used to people critiqueing her work, as Dad says she may well have been the cream of the crop there.
But we are dealing with the REAL world now, and she will need to learn that she has to get along with people who are senior to her, even if they did not go to a prestigous law school like she did. Ultimately, I learned that once you are out of law school for a few years, no one really cares other then some persons who went to that same law school.
What is important after a year or 2 is what she can do, how she get’s along with others, how many hours can she bill, what new good paying cleints did she bring in, etc. If she can’t do good work, get along with others, bill a decent number of hours each week and bring in new good paying cleints, who in the world cares if she went to a prestigous law school?
My Dad went to all top schools, and he told me that what got him into all the great places he worked was NOT the schools he went to, but his attitude, his willingness to work hard, and his ability to get results and bring home the bacon. THAT is his ideal that I try to follow, and so far so good. I went to a pretty decent school, tho NOT the most prestigous, but trust me, people ONLY care now about the very things that Dad told me, and that is what I follow. I work hard, get along with people, bill for almost everything I do, and bring in and retain good paying cleints, so that is why I am a partner now. If I just went to Harvard or Colombia and acted like an a$$hole at work, going around trumpeting all day that I had a Harvard or Colombian JD, trust me, I would NOT be a partner, and probably would have been fired years ago. So I don’t. OP, learn this and you will suceed with your degree second to your performance in the REAL world of law. YAY!!!!!!
Anon
This is just law. The person who signs the documents gets to have it done to their standards and personal preferences. It doesn’t matter if you think they were pointless changes, it is getting filed under his name. (In full disclosure, some of these seem like changes I would make. I can’t picture a situation when I would use the Judge’s full name instead of just his last.)
Anonymous
+1. It’s not a waste of time to get a sense of his style preferences if you are going to be working on his cases. If you can’t bill for making the revisions, hand them off to an assistant to make and take a couple of minutes to at least skim them to understand his preferences for the future.
AFT
+1 in a perfect world, the goal would be for you to learn his preferences/style/etc so well that he “doesn’t have to make any changes.” In practice, after 12 years in law firms, I found that involved senior attorneys still liked to mark their territory by making changes so the document so it sounded like their voices. I don’t think most did it to be jerks — I think the structure of law firms and the practice of law mean that each review should add value and they think they’re adding value (whether they are or aren’t).
Telling yourself he’s doing this to be a jerk or is wrong isn’t going to help you on this, though – you’ll just make yourself more frustrated.
anonshmanon
This. They want to feel like they contribute something, so if all their edits are small, they just couldn’t find anything big.
It works the same in my non-law field, where document drafts are seen by many eyes.
Anon
I think it’s just law…I have been in house my entire career and definitely have had people do this to me when I was a junior lawyer. Some attorneys have a particular style, and they want it reflected in their writings. Just ‘accept changes’ and move on. If you’re going to survive, you need a thicker skin.
Winter
Cosign to this, with the caveat that (except in the most extreme circumstances) no one is doing anything to you. It’s not an attack. They are simply improving the work product and/or aligning it to their preferences. There is no reason to take it personally. Learn from it. It may not be the only right way to do it, but they are your (quasi)boss/supervisor and it is their way. When you are in that supervisory role, you can determine which of the many “right ways” you’d prefer, but for now, you’re not the one making that call.
Anonymous
It’s extremely annoying but happens all the time.
Ashley
I think it’s just law. It can be frustrating, but I wouldn’t read anything into it. I think the best thing you can do is vent, roll your eyes, and move on.
Anonymous
This is a little tongue in cheek, but when you’re a senior associate you’ll miss these easy edits! I get the partner’s general thoughts on life that may or may not have any relation to the brief but he expects me to make some kind of change. Can you please just tell me what you want???
Anonymous
Some attorneys will make a change every time they review a draft. It’s as if they think they’re wasting the client’s money if they don’t make SOME edit. Or maybe they’re just perfectionists, idk, I for one have yet to put together a 100% perfect draft. I always find little nits later. Maybe I could’ve said this more concisely. Should I have used a different word. Does that comma really go there.
As you get more senior, you learn who the nit-picky attorneys are and you learn when to kind of cut them off on filing day. Otherwise they (ahem, I) will keep making little edits that mess up the page numbers requiring you to rerun tables when we have 5 minutes until the filing deadline.
Not a Fun Guy
Totally agree with the first two sentences of this.
Daisy
I mean… deleting “the” and adding commas can be the difference between a sentence being grammatically correct or not. These may not be “substantive” changes, but they are absolutely necessary. Even changing the reference to the judge’s name — was the judge referred to by last name only in some places and by full name in others, i.e., a consistency issue? Clients pay BigLaw attorneys for perfection, so yes, a misplaced comma does actually matter, a lot.
The fact that a partner previously didn’t make any corrections on the form isn’t really relevant. The partner is likely busier than the associate and was probably just glancing over the form to make sure it wasn’t malpractice to file it. It’s not a good use of a partner’s time at $900/hour to rearrange commas. When you as the associate are working directly with the partner, it’s up to YOU to catch the comma errors and consistency issues.
Finally, how on earth would him correcting errors that you made in a document be a plot to “get rid of” you? That’s his job–you do the work, he makes it better. What year are you? You need to learn to not take corrections and edits personally — I’m not saying that’s easy, I did it too. But literally that’s how you become a better attorney. Really look at what he did, and whether it made the document cleaner/better. Don’t get defensive and say, “what I did wasn’t technically wrong”! Maybe it was. Maybe it wasn’t. But was his way better? Consider it honestly. And think about doing it his way next time. Or if you don’t understand the reason for a change, maybe ask him about it, because maybe you don’t think you did anything wrong, but that’s only because you don’t know what you don’t know. The law is a training profession — be glad that this guy is actually training you and making your work product better, rather than allowing you to file something that’s substandard.
Senior Attorney
Yeah. I used to work for our state Court of Appeal. The first justice I worked for would send out the opinions I drafted exactly the way I wrote them. (Once I learned his very few quirks like “never use the word ‘that’.”) The second one was very nitpicky and wanted his opinions to read as though he had written them himself, so he’d make what I considered stylistic and unnecessary changes. Somebody asked me how I liked working for the second one and I said “well my work product is better but I feel worse about it.”
Sometimes that’s just life.
Anonymous
This is me, but in reverse! My first judge was a rewriter while my second judge was an adopter. Just different styles.
HBF
Yes, this was my life yesterday. Now I’m seriously behind on other work. And I’m at a non-profit so no billables condolation. I feel you, it sucks!
Anonymous
I’m in a completely different field — grantwriting – but this happens to me constantly due to the nature of my work. Many years ago, my supervisor told me just to be glad the person read my work closely enough to make edits. Sometimes it can be maddening and a time suck, but I try to just accept most changes and save my push back for things I feel strongly about. And when I review things others have written, I usually make edits too – it is faster to make changes that occur to me than to think through whether each one is 100% necessary. There are a lot of different ways to write something that are equally grammatically correct.
And now, a pedantic grammar joke for you:
Knock knock
Who’s there
To
To who?
[Said witheringly] It’s TO WHOM
Never too many shoes...
I love this joke so much!
Aggie
As a former Senior Associate grammar police, I sent almost every draft marked up until it was correct. I knew nearly all of the partners in my group would not read 85% of the documents they signed. If there was an error pointed out by the client, it was my fault, not the junior associate.
Second, using a Judge’s first name is a mistake I will never make again. I was dressed down in Federal Court for addressing another judge by his first and last name. I only use first initials if the last name is common (Moore, Smith, Jones, etc.)
And third, I never saw it as “getting back” at an associate – everyone bills their time and the client pays for perfection.
Anonymous
+1
This is just how BigLaw works; not the hill you want to die on.
20 Year Partner
I’ve been practicing law in a big firm for 20 years, and yesterday I made minor edits to a document at the request of a partner who has been practicing for 30 years. I think some of his edits were wrong (not glaringly, but really nitpicky grammar/style wrong). When I’m signing, I get to have it the way I want. When someone more senior is signing, he gets it the way he wants. The sooner you let that go, the better you will be. It almost always has nothing to do with you. In the rare cases it does, it usually sorts itself out in the long run.
Marie
+1 This is the correct lens through which to view this issue. If it’s your signature, you get to have the document look how ever you want, personal preferences and all.
Senior Attorney
Exactly.
Anonymous
The work product is the work product of your team, for the client, and not your solo work product. Be glad the changes were minor, instead of someone senior finding errors in your legal analysis. And he was right when he changed the reference to the judge’s name.
anon
You’ll be much happier if you learn not to take this stuff personally. They are likely not judging your work; they just may know better what perspective and tone the document should have.
Anon for this
I once had a director cause a proposal to be late because she had to lecture me on not using a non-breaking hyphen before she would approve its submitter. I don’t work for her anymore (thank God), but to this day I still curse non-breaking hyphens.
Unnecessary edits are unhelpful, but unless its causing something to be late or incorrect, take the edits. Look out for their style nit picks prior to submitting your next draft. Learning their individual style will prevent a lot of additional edits, and they will appreciate (if subconsciously) future drafts. It won’t totally prevent future edits, because some people just can’t help themselves.
Anonymous
+1 I started drafting with my principal’s few specific pet peeves (chronological order always, last names only, dates at the end of sentences instead of the beginning, quotes indented and vitalized) and started getting tons of compliments on my (his) writing!
Anon
TIL what a non-breaking hyphen is.
Irish Midori
All. The. Time. Sorry, it’s annoying, and not likely to go away soon. Not sure how your office works, but in mine I finally realized that most of the time I should just review the changes to make sure I saw and “approved” (e.g. mentally acknowledged) them, and then hand it to my legal assistant and email her the draft. I did not realize that it was not my job to spend billable hours word processing, because… law school doesn’t tell you this. Always review the draft from the assistant, of course, before passing it back to Senior, but just let that isht roll downhill…
GCG
I wouldn’t take this personally. People have personal preferences about how things are written – especially when they are signing it. The edits might seem pointless to you and they might not be substantive, but they reflect the tone the senior associate wants to portray. I doubt that the senior associate was making the edits just to frustrate you – in fact I doubt that he even gave much thought to how you would interpret being asked to make these edits.
Anon
This might be true in law, but it’s true in a lot of other industries too. There are some people that just like to control even the tiniest details.
Definitely can empathize since I have one of these too, but I just have to prepare the best I can and roll my eyes when the b.s is too much.
Anon
This seems like his problem, not yours. As someone who had been both the junior and the senior in a working relationship, it’s been my experience that some people feel like they have to make a change/correction regardless of whether it’s needed or not. Yes, it’s frustrating. I wouldn’t take it as a way to get rid of you. Seriously, this is his issue, not yours.
Anon
Yep. Lawyers are perfectionists by nature, and perfectionism has its roots in insecurity – “if this word isn’t right, the document won’t be perfect, and if this document isn’t perfect, maybe the client will question their relationship with us, and maybe they’ll listen the next time another firm pitches them, and then maybe we’ll lose the client…and it was all my fault for not making sure the document was perfect.”
That way of thinking is exhausting. I’ll just do my job and go home, thanks.
Anon
Man, I would not last a day in Big Law. Everything I read about it (here) makes it seem so god damn awful.
Anonymous
Nah, it’s not all like that. It’s like waiting tables or being in customer service — you just deal with it. And you don’t make it out to be all about you.
Anon
Some aspects of it were awful but honestly I didn’t mind things like this. Big Law work is fast-paced and intellectually challenging and I always kind of enjoyed getting a quiet hour to do a mindless task like input changes into a document.
Anon
I’m really enjoying all the mustard I’m seeing for fall. It’s a good colour on me.
In other news, I think there are like 3 people in the office today and all the bosses are gone. Can I go home now?
Anonome
Ugh, any shade of yellow makes me look half-dead. Hate my Simpsons skin tone!
Anonymous
I’m super pale and also can’t wear yellow anywhere near my face. But I’m okay if it’s farther from my face (pencil skirt, shoes, bag, etc).
Ariadne
I’m attempting to purchase all the yellow items…not as easy as it sounds! I prefer a less mustardy yellow, but I love the colour — it seems to be constantly sold out in my size and I’ve missed out on more yellow dresses than I can count. I will hopefully snap up a sweater, more tops, and eventually a dress — it’s practically a neutral in my wardrobe and I wear it with dark and light blue, grey, brown and black.
azcpa
I’m super fair (but golden, not pink undertones) and mustard is my new power color. Also loving bronzy and golden shades for fall.
The economy
It seems like I’m seeing/hearing constant articles and chatter about the pending recession, and it’s very stressful to me. Is anyone else getting fatigued from all the doomsday predictions? On a more practical level, is anyone planning to move their portfolio or 401k into safer investments to hedge against a potential big dip? I know there’s a lot of people who advise against that and insist you should ride the market out, but as a person who places a very high value on financial security, it’s hard for me to embrace that mentality.
AFT
Are you decades from retirement? If so, hopefully everything will work out before your retirement. This is a good time to check that you have a robust emergency fund and aren’t in over your head if you were to experience a job loss.
Having gone through the last recession, burying my head in the sand and not looking at 401k balance saved my sanity. Planning to do the same here – stay the course with my investments that assume retirement in 25+ years and ignore the balance amounts for now.
Anon
What do you do if you want to retire as soon as you can? I’d love to retire in 15 years but losing all the investment value will make that goal more like 25 or 35.
Anonymous
You only lose value if you cash out. Otherwise, think of it as everything is on sale. Hoard your cash now. Be cash-flow positive.
If you can retire in 15 years or 35 years, I’m guessing you are <40. So you will be fine. You will do this multiple times before you actually retire and probably again in retirement.
AFT
If your plan is to retire in 15 years versus 25+, presumably you may be more balanced towards stability versus growth? do you have a financial advisor you can discuss your plans with? They can probably provide more specific advice and assess your portfolio. [sorry, not my industry at all, just trying to provide some “this is what I did” advice based on what my financial advisor told me.]
FWIW – and recognizing past performance does not guarantee future results, as the industry professionals say :) – my dollars in my 401k during 2007-2009 can back from the dip and then some in the last ~12 years. I recognize it’s all about timing, though, so some of that is luck.
And to what the poster below said, YES. I turned off notices from my advisory firm that went out when there were major market swings, as I’d succeeded in tuning out that noise sufficiently that seeing an alert just stressed me out.
Anon
I’ll tell you what I tell my mother: it’s ok to stop following the news. You don’t have to take in all the media we have access to in modern society. Remember when people just got their 30 minutes of news in the evening and otherwise went about their lives? Try that. Turn off alerts on your phone and don’t click on CNN or whatever when you’re bored at work. I’m in politics, so news is a part of my life, and even I ignore 98% of the breathless “alerts” that come my way.
Re: your portfolio, check yesterday’s afternoon thread.
Anon
Agreed, I feel so much better now that I don’t seek out the news.
Daisy
Amen. When I don’t read the news, I realize: my life is pretty good, so I don’t need to be anxious all the time. (I still give lots of money to charitable causes and candidates I believe in, but I don’t need to follow the day to day swings to be a good person.)
Anon
A recession is not doomsday. It’s a natural part of an otherwise healthy economic cycle. I also place a high value on financial security, but all of the saving and otherwise conservative approach I take to finances during non-recessionary times will have me prepared for recessionary times should there be an impact to my job/income or investments.
I’m 34 and won’t touch my 401k or investments. Just keep contributing and ride it out will be my approach.
Anon
When people say their accounts will “recover in time” and that they have in the past, do they mean they reached the same value they had pre-crash or that they actually saw gains? What happened to those of you with investments in 2008?
Anon
I am in a much better place financially than I was then. My investments have recovered and gained. I was fortunate in that I remained employed during the recession. I continued to save and invest during the recession.
There will be at least one more recession between now and when I retire, so I’d rather get it over with sooner rather than later, to allow for a good recovery.
Ms B
Cosign.
Anon
If you stayed the course in 2008, your investments would have more than recovered, they would be significantly higher today than they were in 2008. This is true even if you didn’t add another penny after 2007.
Anon
This is all assuming you have an appropriately balanced and invested portfolio. If you went all-in on a company that no longer exists, that’s another thing. Anon at 9:21am, I’m sure this was implied but I do think it’s worth calling out. I have a family member who invested big in some start up bank for god knows what reason in ’07 and will never, ever recover financially. That’s an extreme but those cases do exist.
As long as you are making sound investments, you’ll ride it out just fine.
Anon
Fair enough. I was assuming that someone who was financially conservative was invested in diversified mutual funds, not individual stocks. But this assumption was probably based on the fact that I kind of think investing in individual stocks is stupid, and I should have stated the assumption.
Anon
Or, like me you had a compensation plan that involved company stock, which went totally underwater and never recovered. Yes, that’s right, I worked for AIG.
(For those of you saying, but AIG stock was around 50 then and around 50 now, the 50 now is after a 1 for 20 reverse stock split.)
Anon
They saw gains. Most peoples 401(k)s are just index funds so their relative value is the relative value of the market. DJIA went from 6000 or whatever in 2009 to 26000 in 2019. Your investments would have a similar % increase if you have index funds.
AFT
Recovered and gained. Each dollar in my 401k in 2007 went down in value initially and then went up again after the recovery.
Anonymous
Stuff in 2008/2009 was on major sale.
E.g. — I had a kid in 2008. I started a 529 with crumbs in it. Those crumbs are now huge nuggets.
I had a kid in 2010. Markets were still down, but not as much. I put crumbs in that kid’s 529. They are larger crumbs now, nowhere near the shocking growth of kid1’s 529 (so I am shoveling cash into it now to help even them out).
College has a fixed date (whereas retirement doesn’t), so my plan is to slowly convert the 529s to cash/money market funds as they enter high school so a down market or outright crash shouldn’t be fatal.
Anon
My kids’ 529 plans have an age-adjusted feature you can opt into that does just what you said – moves to less volatility as the kids near college. I have a freshman in college and a junior in high school and their plans have weathered the cycle well.
anon
Massive massive gains from the money I invested during the recession. It actually has been so exciting it makes me want to invest a lot during this upcoming recession. It’s an opportunity to buy stocks super cheap after they’ve been expensive for years. Would it help you to think of it that way?
I mean, as long as you’ve got your financial house generally in order, have an emergency fund, and aren’t living way beyond your means, you should be fine.
anon
mix of passive index funds and actively managed mutual funds and came out way, way ahead post-recession.
Anonymous
It isn’t safer to move your assets to cash. Its just not. If you feel like doing something, build up a bigger emergency fund.
Anonome
Time in the market beats timing the market. Leave your stuff where it is.
Anon
Recessions are a fact of life, and happen about every 10 years. Most are not as bad as the 2008 recession, and nothing I’ve heard suggests that this will be near as bad. But the worst thing you can do during a recession is pull your long-term investments out of the market.
If you don’t think you can stay the course on your own, I highly encourage you to see a financial advisor and/or therapist. You are going to have to live through a few more recessions in your life, and need to learn how to manage the fear and anxiety.
Anonymous
March 9 2009 was the bottom for the S&P — closed at 676. It sits at 2922 now 10.5 years later. So if you left your money in the market, did nothing, did not put in a single additional dollar you’d be up 332%. Put another way, if you had 100k in the market that day, that would have grown by 332k and you’d be sitting on 432k today. So what do you think you should do?
Why are people on this board SO challenged by the market or finance or math in general?
Anonymous
Because they are lawyers and lawyers generally s*ck at math.
Anon
It’s not just this board. People are wired to fear things that are complex (like the U.S. economy and financial system) and we have strong loss aversion (stronger than our desire to see gains). It’s natural that people, including me, have sometimes irrational responses to investment.
Anon
I agree with your general point, but the bottom of the market shouldn’t be the starting point. The concern is over what a person’s existing assets will do in a recession, so the starting point should be the top of the market prior to the recession.
It’s not a matter of being bad at math, it’s a matter of fear. The same type of fear that makes people afraid of flying, but have no concerns about driving a car.
Anonymous
Ok. The S&P made new highs in Oct. 2007 — which were the highest highs made before the great recession officially started in Dec. of that year; that new high was 1565. And then the market bottom was 676, so a loss of 56.8% between Oct. 2007 and the market bottom in March 2009. Now the S&P sits at 2925 — so 86.9% higher than the top of the market prior to the recession. Or in other words if you had 100k in the market in Oct 2007, didn’t touch it, didn’t add to it — you would have made 86,900 on it or be sitting on 186,900. Now what do you think you should do?
Anon
Your example is the right one, but it is not the 332% return the poster above mentioned. Hers fails to take into account the drop in the market leading up to March 2009. The math is a bit more complicated than that.
Anon
It’s definitely not just this board and it’s not about being bad at math. My boss does not understand this at all. He keeps talking about his friends (nowhere near retirement) who “lost everything” in 2009 because the value of their retirement accounts plummeted. When I pointed out that they’ve recovered and gained back tons of value since then, he tried to argue with me and said that they had recovered some from the bottom of the market but were nowhere near where they were pre-recession. I tried to explain that pre-crash the S&P was 1400 or whatever and now it’s 2700 (this was a little while ago), he just did not get it. He could absolutely tell you that 2700 is almost a 100% increase over 1400, but he doesn’t get that the value of your investments go with the value of the market. I think lots of people don’t fully understand this. It’s not math, it’s financial literacy.
Anonymous
There is a business cycle. Ups and downs. You need to get over it. You sound like a kid.
Anonymous
You sound like a jerk.
Not Having it This Monday
We’re gearing up for national elections, so stories about the economy and how it’s doing are going to be nonstop until then. Everyone assumes (based on history) that elections turn on the current state of the economy, so both sides are working hard to make that story happen. It’s okay to tune it out or at least turn it down.
Anon
So what about if you’ve been waiting to get in the market? I have about 50K that I’d like to invest, but I am so terrified that the day after I pull the trigger the market will tank.
Anon
If you’re fearful you can invest it $10,000 at a time.
Anonymous
Unfortunately the minimum entry for the particular portfolio I’d be buying(?) or joining is 50K.
busybee
Wouldn’t you want to wait for the market to go down to invest? Maybe I’m just not savvy with financial things, but wouldn’t it be a good thing to start investing when the market is down?
Anon
I would think so too, but “they” say never time the market.
OP
Thanks to everyone with with constructive, well-meaning responses, they were very helpful. I am still about 20 years from retirement so it’s reassuring to hear about your experiences from the last recession. I don’t have anyone to rely on but myself financially, and have always struggled with money related anxiety – I’m not an ignorant “kid” as one person implied – just trying to do my best.
Curious
Of course you’re not an ignorant kid! I consider myself financially savvy (have a solid budget, an emergency fund, savings toward my down payment, and steadily growing retirement assets), and I still think a lot about how I might want to handle market upturns and downturns. “They” might say something, but I always want to have thought it through myself.
Anon
Yeah thanks for asking this OP! I think I’m financially savvy but this discussion was still enlightening to me (also not a kid, i’m 42).
Anon
A couple of PSAs regarding suicide:
– Severe depression and other mental disorders that may lead to suicide are diseases, not choices. No one, NO ONE, chooses to be suicidal.
– You can be driven to suicide while receiving treatment for two reasons – either it doesn’t work to alleviate your symptoms, or you suffer from the known side effect of many antidepressant medications, which is increased suicidality. How horrible is that that the treatment can worsen the possible outcomes of your disease?
– The f*cked up thing about depression is that it changes your brain and makes you less able to function and do things like call your doctor, find a therapist in your network, wait six weeks for an appointment, and hold down a job. What’s worse is even if you manage to do all those things, our screwed up health system, unequal access to care, and extreme stigma about depression make it really hard for most people to get the effective treatment they need.
– Many people who are suicidal believe that their families and loved ones will be happier when they are gone because they believe themselves to be such a burden that death is preferable to more time in their company. This feeling, while irrational, is not helped by others emphasizing how “selfish” their disease is.
– You can feel sorrow and compassion and anger for the family survivors of suicide while also not denigrating the deceased. Just imagine if a friend died of cancer after undergoing treatment and your response was “his death was selfish since he didn’t join the right clinical trials/didn’t do all he could/didn’t set up the right life insurance for his family first/didn’t seek treatment at the first sign of something being wrong.
Go ahead and have those thoughts about selfishness in the privacy of your own head or with your therapist – but challenge them because they are cruel, based in stigmatizing misconceptions about mental illness, and you can and should be better than that. You may think it’s no big deal because you’re not saying them to the survivor and posting on an Internet forum instead, but the impact is harmful to the many readers on this site who have suffered from suicidal thoughts or lost a loved one. It’s ultimately our own responsibility to avoid websites that are detrimental to us, but when we come to a fashion blog and get slammed with “people who kill themselves are selfish!”, it’s a shock to the system that no one expects or needs. You’re not harmlessly venting to robots, but to actual humans who have been touched by suicide.
anon
All fair points, but I would like to point out that *I* don’t come to a fashion blog to read gory details (and I do mean that literally) about someone else’s suicide. That’s extremely jarring, and frankly, disturbing in a way that is hard to ignore.
For whatever it’s worth, I think the OP yesterday was dealing with a lot of grief and anger, and wish people had cut her some slack.
Anon
Fair enough. I do get that OP was feeling a lot of anger about her friend’s husband, but some thoughts shouldn’t be aired publicly. For example, if I got mugged by a homeless person and felt freaked out and angry, I wouldn’t come here to vent about how disgusting he was or how homeless people are good-for-nothing. There’s venting and then there’s giving in to the rage and perpetuating harmful stereotypes.
Anon
The OP is allowed to feel how she feels and to express it. If you don’t want to read it, you are more than welcome to skip the thread. If someone had asked for a trigger warning, I think most people would have been ok with that request. But policing someone’s feelings is just not ok.
Anon
Yup, this. It’s not your right to tell OP her feelings are wrong. And even if it were, telling her she’s a terrible person for feeling anger in this case is not helpful. People can’t really change their feelings. A lot of people said not to express it to her friend, which is fine (although a bit redundant since she pointed out in her OP that she would never do that). But I don’t like the thought policing. And fwiw, she was totally following the much-mentioned “ring theory” of grief by dumping her feelings outward anonymously online so she could be better equipped to offer comfort and support inward (ie, to her friend).
Anonymous
I feel that you should go away
Anonymous
I look at it as venting to strangers is like writing in a diary. ANYTHING is better to get it off of your chest than explode with anger and frustration at the situation in front of the friend at the center of it all.
Anon
No, it’s not like writing in a diary. That’s the point. You’re venting to people who may be extremely inappropriate targets for your thoughts. You rightfully acknowledge that OP’s friend shouldn’t be the target, but what about readers who have also lost spouses to suicide?
Anon
Then maybe the post should have had a trigger warning so people who would be triggered could skip it. But that wasn’t what the pushback was. It was “OP, you’re a terrible person” not “OP, this post triggered me and I wish you would have included a trigger warning.”
PolyD
But everyone here chooses to be here and read here, knowing that the comments are not always all about fashion or lighthearted topics. Everyone has the choice to read or not read, to start reading a comment, realize it’s not for them, and hide the conversation thread.
Honestly, I understand the “trigger” stuff, but we all take risks seeing things that will disturb us when we read the internet. I think the OP was fine venting to “strangers” to try to get a handle on her feelings. The discussion yesterday got WAY out of hand, but it actually can be a good thing to read ideas and points of view that conflict with your own – maybe it will reaffirm your beliefs or maybe it will give you a new and better way of looking at things.
all about eevee
I was one of the people arguing against the use of the term selfish and I just want to state that I personally never called the OP a terrible person. Just want to clear that up.
Anon
+1
Anon
+1
Anon
Then don’t read it.
Anon
Then don’t read it.
Anon this time
I am a licensed clinical counselor and am also someone who has depression and has had suicidal thoughts in the past.
I think “selfish” is an inappropriate, overly harsh word to use. Some comments yesterday were definitely too much.
However, I have found, both in my personal experience and professionally, that some people are only motivated to try to get better when they realize the impact of their behaviors on others. This goes for addictions, my specialty, and also for depression, which has some addictive qualities to it as well. In many cases, people feel worthless themselves, and/or not deserving of anything better, but are willing to at least try to change when they recognize that they are causing their loved ones to suffer.
I disagree that there is no element of choice in these situations. There is always some degree of choice, present at varying levels at various stages in an illness.
A basically unmoderated internet chat board is certainly a risky venue for this conversation, and I hope everyone is ok. As was posted yesterday, the national suicide prevention hotline is 1-800-273-8255.
Anon
Thanks for clarifying this. Evidence suggests the social stigma serves as a deterrent to suicide, which I hope we can all agree is a good thing. I most strongly objected to someone calling suicide a legitimate “lifestyle choice” yesterday.
Anonome
Oh, I can feel A or B emotion, and have X or Y thought? Thanks ever so for the permission.
Just stop.
Anon
Have whatever thoughts you want! Just don’t feel compelled to share the cruelest ones with the world. We can live without your harsh insights.
Anon
It’s not cruel to be angry in this situation, and we all have unkind thoughts from time to time (if you don’t, congrats, you’re Mother Theresa). What was cruel was the mean girls attack on the OP, who is clearly a good person who wanted advice on how best to support her friend through this terrible situation. The fact that she was posting and asking for advice about what to do speaks volumes about what a good person she is (I’ve lost loved ones and so many people say and do absolutely nothing) and the vitriol against her was totally unwarranted.
anon
To me, as someone who has been hospitalized for suicidal thoughts in the past and has a history of major depression (as well a family history of depression, addiction, and other mental health issues), what I thought was cruel was OP’s framing of the issue as “Was he really a good person?” I get anger, despair, frustration, helplessness, even feeling like suicide is selfish, but what gets me is devaluing his worth as a person and questioning whether he was a “good person” because of a decision he made that was based in mental illness. FWIW, I didn’t weigh in until the thread died.
Anon
If you come here to post racist thoughts or sexist thoughts, you’re going to get called out the exact same way. Why is this different?
Anonymous
Because people hate the mentally ill.
Anon
Yep.
Anon
People post sexist thoughts here all the time that don’t inspire anywhere near that level of backlash. Bashing SAHMs is practically a spectator sport around here (and, no, I’m not a SAHM). For goodness sake, in yesterday’s thread, people were blaming the “selfish” SAHM for quitting her job.
anon
TBH I read that as sarcasm or some type of weird devil’s advocate argument. It was bizarre and illogical and didn’t read to me like a genuinely held position. It certainly wasn’t co-signed by many commenters.
Anon
Fair enough, but given many commenters obvious disdain for SAHMs (someone called them useless paras*tes the other day), it was easy to take it as a sincere comment.
Anonymous
I made that comment, actually to point out (perhaps poorly, and I didn’t have time to come back and follow up) that all of the people calling the husband out for being financially irresponsible (the only breadwinner made this selfish choice!) may have missed that someone who has severe depression shouldn’t be the only party responsible for a family’s finances.
anon
No, that person was referring to her husband’s opinion. That poster did not endorse that position. I remember this because I asked her how she could possibly be married to someone with such awful values.
Anon
Honestly, if the mention of strong emotions surrounding a suicide are that triggering, then people need to police their own internet use more. This is an open online forum, not a gaggle of friends. We are not your friends, we are strangers. And not even unkind strangers (save for the troll or two that keep throwing hateful insults). People are allowed to discuss things openly in an online forum just as much as people are fully free to stop reading. I’m sorry, but I have no obligations to police my perfectly polite speech on hard topics for anonymous princesses who can’t use the X button on their browser or close a thread.
Anon
Also, OP never engaged in the conversation again to clarify anything (unless it was at like midnight). I’m wondering if the question was even sincere or just designed to create a dumpster fire.
Anon
Or OP started reading the conversation, realized it was too much for them/wasn’t productive, and moved on.
Anon
If I was OP, I wouldn’t have engaged. She was called a horrible person for feeling how she did by tons of people, and like only one person actually answered her question of how she could help her friend. When subject yourself to that further?
Anon
Yep. I also feel like posters tend to engage more when commenters ask them follow-up questions. I don’t think anyone really directed any questions to OP so I can see that being an additional reason she didn’t chime in. But mostly what Anon at 10:40 said.
Anon
What is there to “clarify”? She asked a question, stated how she was feeling and was called a terrible person for her feelings. If she’d posted more people would have just yelled at her about being defensive. I wouldn’t have engaged either.
Anon
…or maybe she didn’t want to engage with the many posters who were attacking her?
Anon
Very few people directly attacked OP. There was much more directed against the posters who chimed in with “suicide is a lifestyle choice.”
Dolce
I’m the OP. The thread turned into a dumpster fire. No one asked me to clarify, so I thought adding unsolicited details would just make it worse
Anonymous
I am a survivor of a suicide attempt. Depression altered my brain to such an extent that I thought I was doing my family and friends a huge favor by attempting to end my life. I felt like a tremendous burden as a depressed person, always bringing the mood down. I felt like I was no fun to be around and that everyone’s lives would be easier without having to deal with me. I thought everyone would breathe a huge sigh of relief that I was gone.
I was actually in twice weekly therapy and on a combo of antidepressants when I attempted suicide. Unfortunately, depression doesn’t always respond to treatment. It also isn’t rational. Calling the “choice” (I felt I had no other choice) to end your own life selfish is fundamentally misunderstanding the ways in which the disease alters reality.
anon
Well, now that you’re out, don’t you see that it would have harmed your friends and family?
Anonn
Wow. Seriously? I need a break from this site. There are real thinking, feeling people behind every post here. Would you respond this way face to face?
Anon
Also appalled by this comment.
Anonymous
This is a staggeringly selfish and unempathetic response. You should be ashamed of yourself. If your mother was reading this and knew you posted it, how would you feel about that? I honestly wish I could find out your real identity and send everyone you work with a screenshot of this response, so they understand what kind of person you really are.
Anon
I agree it was a very unempathetic response but this is also an incredibly over the top reaction, and I think you should work on your anger issues.
Anonn
+1 to this. As someone who has experienced suicidal thoughts in the past, it’s something that a mentally healthy person just cannot understand. (I can’t even truly understand it myself now that I am healthy.) That doesn’t mean suicide is okay or that the friend in yesterday’s post hasn’t been left in a tragic situation, but understanding how people get to that point and how they make decisions in that state of mind is critical to showing empathy rather than anger (in my opinion).
For how much everyone here suggests therapy, I would have expected to see a more nuanced conversation… it was really shocking to see how some posters reacted. As Anonymous at 10:43 said, yesterday’s conversations (and some of today’s as well) show a fundamental misunderstanding of mental illness.
Anon for this discussion
Thank you for this. The thread upset me for several reasons — also trigger warning here as I will discuss suicide.
– there has to be a distinction between the suffering / mental illness of the person attempting suicide, and the impact and suffering (and myriad of emotions) on the close friends and family of that person.
– I believe the op of yesterday’s thread was in a sense suffering and grieving as well and I’m assuming her post had a positive intent to help a good friend.
– I taught a high school class to students about to graduate and one of the students committed suicide — he had discussed this with parents, friends, councillors, and became increasingly more ill, despite receiving help. I and many others felt a horrible sense of helplessness when we talked to him, and sent him to talk to counsellors.
– the aftermath of his suicide, which he committed in a public place was very difficult for the class,, myself, other students and staff, and parents. Grief councillors and crisis teams came in and it was extremely triggering for adults and students alike. I mention this because some of the reactions by staff and students alike were very similar to what the op, and what many others said yesterday.
I think the emotional shock and cascade of emotions the friends and family experience will vary and it is likely that some students thought or used the word “selfish” — I don’t exactly recall, but we did discuss and emphasize that this person was ill, and that when we grieve and are hurt, anger and blame are part of an emotional process, but are later ideally replaced by compassion and understanding. As rational beings students realized he was ill, but what I learned is that the students and staff who had never experienced anything like this, all went through this learning curve. I mention this because I believe op was in an emotional state, and I don’t think that her comments / feelings were etched in stone, but that likely she was going through a stage of disbelief.
— I do realize that discussion on a forum will have many nuances in tone, and at times there is a disconnect between what is written and felt.
fjdk
Honestly, I was angry at my father for leaving me when he died, and he had terminal cancer which was treated aggressively. Grief brings out strange and irrational emotions.
Anon
LGBT youth (and adults) are at a much higher risk of suicide. Veterans are at a much higher risk of suicide.
Last I checked, these people aren’t any more selfish or worse than straight people who don’t serve in our armed forces. It makes me wonder if the “suicide is selfish” group ever thinks through the logical implications of their nastiness.
Anon
You’re conflating mental illness and suicide. Presumably veterans and LGBT have much higher suicide rates because they have much higher rates of depression and other mental illness. Literally nobody said having mental illness is selfish.
Anon
That is false because everyone was saying “people who commit suicide are selfish.” That is literally saying “people with mental illness” are selfish.
Anon
Exactly this.
all about eevee
Yes, this.
Anon
Yes, this.
Therapist in ATL?
Any recs for a therapist in metro Atlanta? My trouble is that much of my issue stems from who I am as an immigrant and feeling like I never fit in anywhere so I want a POC therapist who can relate with cultural identification. I found a couple of names online but one person is having trouble scheduling me (what do you mean date X may not work? You’re either booked already or you’re not) and it’s giving me more stress. The other person I haven’t contacted because although she seems to deal with most of what I think I have, she’s a pastoral counselor and I’m not religious so I don’t know if we would be a good fit. Help!
Anonymous
What is the denomination? I feel that pastoral counselors are counselors and not out selling you on their churches. That said, you might look for denominations that are known for being tolerant / open / etc. UU, Episcopalian, PCUSA, some Methodist churches, etc.
Anonymous
Contact the pastoral counselor and ask. The way she answers will go a long way to telling you if it’s a good fit.
FWIW, I’m part of a denomination that the poster above would likely not approve of, given her list. However, the counselors in my church would be totally open to counseling you in a way that worked for you.
Anonymous
That was my comment and I totally believe that pastoral counselors are counselors.
So the suggestion was just to start with some demonimations that a person already uncomfortable with a pastoral counselor would maybe take to better? But I don’t disapprove — you can get great counselors (and rotten ones) in any faith and in a secular setting. In our city, the Lutheran counseling outfit the best (largest, most well-regarded, not a part of any church — it is free-standing) and we are not in a heavily-Lutheran area.
Anon
In addition to trying out the pastoral counselor, I’d take a close look at their training. IME, pastoral counselors with masters in social work, clinical mental health counseling, or similar counseling related degrees that aren’t from a seminary school tend to be a lot more helpful, as they have their faith based counseling for members of the faith but also psychology science based training for secular clients.
Therapist in ATL?
Thanks all. First therapist was able to pen me down for an appointment. I’ll give her a try and if it doesn’t work between us I’ll reach out to the pastoral counselor.
Anon
What are people seeing for boot trends for fall? You can pry my riding boots from my cold dead hands, but I wouldn’t mind adding another pair in a trendier style to my closet.
Anon
I don’t think tall boots are back, much to my chagrin. Booties still seem to rule.
Ariadne
I have seen lots of higher shaft booties (2 -4 inches above the ankle) in stores, which I’m super happy about, since it has always been my preference to have something go over the ankle without cutting in at the ankle bone. I found what I thought was the perfect incarnation of this boot on sale last year, but was alas, too tight:) Most plentiful in store ‘fall’ boot displays from most selection to least selection have so far been:
— booties — going strong, lots of burgundies, olives, and browns cropping up.
— taller shaft booties that still are bootie like— I would love these, only on a flat one inch max— still searching
— laced combat / or doc Martin style boots some chunky, and some more streamlined shoe like but taller.
—tall boots— my favourite. I live on the rainy, damp west coast and boots+ tights+ skirt is my preferred winter fall look.
I think all of these are on trend now, and I’m seeing lots of tall boots and midi skirts in high fashion magazines, so maybe taller boots will be making a comeback? “
Personally, I love tall boots and have four pairs; I have one bootie, and one lace up boot that ends four inches above my ankle ( must replace, as it started hurting my feet). I’m looking to buy a flat suede tall boot, and a flat suede higher shaft -bootie -type boot- if I can find these items at a reasonable price or on sale.
Sorry for the novel, it started to rain heavily today, and Suddenly I became irrationally super excited about boots!
Vicarious Shopping
I am going with family to a popular Florida rodent-themed destination. Looking over my wardrobe choices, I realized I somehow am missing tops that aren’t athleisure but aren’t work tops. I have a few pair of JCrew 4′ chino shorts in green, grey, and mint and a few lululemon running skorts. I apparently normally wear these with either workout shirts or the 2 non-workout shirts that I have. (Which makes sense because I’m usually in work clothes and rarely have to dress vacation-casual more than 2 days in a row).
I’m 5’8, size 8 with a long torso, and look best in jewel tones or other saturated colors.
Anon
Wear the athleisure! It will be hot and crowded. Comfort should be the #1 priority. And you may get wet on some of the rides.
Anonymous
+1 for athleisure, both tops and bottoms.
Ms B
This is no time for fashion; having spent last Spring Break at a building brick themed park, athleisure – in layers if warranted – is the way to go. Comfortable, packs small, easy to hand wash and quick dry after the water rides. If you need a couple new pieces to freshen things up, Eddie Bauer and Duluth both are having some sales right now – I prefer their more structured pieces over Lulu or Athleta. I especially liked having pants/skorts with lots of pockets so that I did not have to carry or leave an actual purse in the cubbies by the rides. I did have a small cross-body tote for a map, phone charger and cable, waters, small snacks (lines are no joke), sunblock, sunglasses, a small umbrella and a foldable nylon bag for the inevitable purchases (although happily our park let you have everything waiting near the exit gate) and that worked out well.
Anonymous
+a million. We’re going in October and I’m planning athleisure the whole time. (And no, I’m not getting any weird matching shirts for our fam…)
Anonymous
I love seeing everyone’s matching t shirts!
Anon
Thank you for not being that mom with the whole family in matching shirts.
Anonymous
Umm excuse you or Dad. Plenty of men love disney
TodayIsTheDay_Maybe
Why thank you? Whether a family is in matching t-shirts or coordinated outfits does not affect your experience. If her family doesn’t want to wear matching shirts, great. Don’t knock someone else’s choices that don’t affect you.
Anonymous
And even this thread suddenly can’t be controversial. (PS – I’m allowed to think you look ridiculous spending money buying your family matching shirts.)
Anon
I’m allowed to think you look ridiculous being this petty.
Vicarious Shopping
OP here! Skipping the ridiculous matching shirts just because it’s not something we would wear again. Frankly, they’re cute and have no impact on my personal experience. If that brings you joy, go wild.
One tip I have just for travelling with small children in crowded places regardless: day-glo colors are your friend. Especially ridiculously bright raincoats/hats. Easy to spot them quickly.
Anonymous
The one think I like about matching shirts is that I can spot a wandered-off kid easier (or show security: the lost kid looks just like this other kid). Or take a picture, but I often forget.
I used to dress my kids alike in airports. It helps that they have lots of matching shirts b/c I am a cruel parent who buys multiples of cute things in different sizes/colors not b/c I went out and bought additional matching shirts.
Aggie
We take a mid day break at theme parks in the summer to escape the heat. (Two showers a day are the only way I can handle the humidity.) I wear athleisure in the morning and will change into a sundress for dinner and evening shows.
anon
Florida is hot and humid. Athleisure will be most comfortable. Embrace it.
Anon
Honestly my #1 tip for theme parks is to wear a very loose half- or long-sleeved linen tunic with whatever bottoms. It’s the coolest thing and the sleeves will somewhat protect you from sunburn. It’s also cooler to be covered in cloth than to have the sun shining directly on your skin (the reason people traditionally wore all those flowing garments in the desert.)
My best recommendation for where to buy such a thing is Marshall’s or TJ Maxx in Florida. They have tons of these types of garments.
anon
Business casual ankle pants? I know the Sloan is the classic and I have a pair from several years ago – but the new versions don’t seem to fit the same. Preference for black, mid-higher rise, some stretch. Vicarious shoppers? Any favorites?
CountC
I wear a lot of JCrew Minnies – have you tried those?
Cat
Check out the JCrew Cameron. May have to size up one.
PolyD
I got some ankle pants from Gap in the spring that I really liked. Not sure which particular one, but they have lots of different cuts, including curvy fit, so you might want to experiment.
My favorite pair is red, black, and white plaid (tiny plaid) that I call my Grandpa pants. I love them.
CHL
I really like the Everlane work pants.
EM84
I own probably 15 pairs of “old” Sloans and I am also not the biggest fan of this year’s version. I find this year’s Ryan pants to fit me better. I bought a few lightweight wool pairs and am happy. Also, if you have access, try Massimo Dutti pants (you will need to size up).
Makeup for Headshots
I am a person who is a makeup minimalist (spackling over problems; powder b/c I have the oiliest skin on the planet; oily skin basically acts as a makeup dissolver / eyelid creasing agent / mascara raccoon eyes generator, hence the minimalism). From a prior headshot that was done with a professional makeup person (no longer part of the work photo package), I know I need stuff on my eyes beyond just mascara and stuff on my cheeks. And kind of a heavier hand than I’ll use for my daily face.
I have to get a new headshot for our website. Our mall has a Bare Minerals place (I like their powder) and a Sephora (I buy spackling there). I wear Burts Bees lip products from Harris Teeter. We also have a Belk. Which of these places (not the grocery store) should I call and ask who is their good headshot makeup person for someone who isn’t really a makeup wearer and they try to swing by some weeknight when that person is in (not weekends –> malls be crazy then with back to school shoppers and teens)? I am agnostic.
Anonymous
I’d go to Sephora
Anonymous
I need to do this, too.
At Sephora, do you need an appointment? Or just walk in and ask for someone to do your makeup and show you products for a headshot? I feel like maybe this is a common ask there (or they kind of get what the request is — I don’t need makeup for pageant-type headshots, just for work in a conservative industry where people are still under pressure to look like they are from central casting at least for the head area).
Anonymous
Def make an appointment. Otherwise there may be no one available
Anonymous
Get a Sephora makeover right before the photo session.
Anonymous
Do not wear mineral makeup or anything with SPF in the photo—it will create an odd shine.
Anon
For you, I’d do the Clinique counter at Belk. They’re good with problem skin and light-handed, something you don’t always get at Sephora.
Anonymous
Get a MAC paint pot to put on your eyelids (won’t budge), Blinc mascara (won’t smudge) and MAC pro-longwear blush (most longwearing blush I’ve used) and do it yourself. A makeup artist who’s just met you may understand your skin and use appropriate products, or they may not.
Sadie
Given that this is for a work headshot that will presumably be around a while, I would make a trial appt at sephora, and then if you like what the makeup artist does, make another appt for the day of your headshots to get it done again by the same person.
Anonymous
OP here — this is my plan — I booked the hour full-face appointment at Sephora and wrote them a lot of info in my message to them. I plan to buy the expected $50 of products depending on what they use that I think looks good and I could use at home. And then practice this weekend. And rebook if needed.
We will see how it goes!
Anon
Don’t do the bare minerals, or anything containing titanium dioxide or zinc oxide. The minerals will bounce light in the photos and give you a glowing, shiny face. Ask me how I know this!
Artemis
Any lawyers here with insurance designations which you think have helped your career? Any opinions about which ones are worth it/actually help if I’m going to put in the time?
I was in insurance litigation, moved into government, and am trying to move back out to insurance roles, either as in-house counsel or claims management level. A CPCU might be a little much for me right now, and maybe not necessary given my prior experience? I’m looking at the designations like AIM/AINS/AIC.
Anon
None of that is necessary, you’re a lawyer. You get credibility that way.
Artemis
I wish that were true, but I’m not getting too far with my job search because my intervening government job is very unusual and legal but not a government lawyer position. So since people are going to scratch their heads looking at my current title if they don’t dig deeper into my resume or cover letter, I thought an insurance-related designation would help as a signal of sorts.
Anonymous
Sounds like you might benefit from reorganizing your resume to get the info that is most important to the top of the resume–same with your cover letter.
Lipstick
Lawyer at a large insurance company here. Slowly working on my CPCU because the company pays for it and many lawyers here have it, but it’s not necessary. I can’t think of anyone in legal with any of the other designations you’ve listed – typically those working in claims have them, but not legal.
Anon
I am a credentialed actuary and work with tons of litigation attorneys specializing in insurance. None of them have those designations.
I think your best shot is to reach out to people you used to do insurance litigation with and ask them to keep you in mind as they hear of openings.
Anonymous
My firm seems to have a retirement/messaging problem. Many partners in their 60s tell partners in their 30s or rising senior associates that the 60 year old will retire in “2-3” or “3-5” years…and then the 60 year old continues to work, hold onto his/her book, and the younger partner/new parter is scrambling to make six figures or bring in business. The Managing Partner tells associates and younger partners not to ask about retirement because older partners believe they will die after retiring. Has anyone figured out how to tackle this issue at their firm?
Anonymous
Yes, young partners leave. People don’t want to retire at 60. You can’t force them out. If you don’t like it, leave.
Equestrian attorney
The guy in the office next door to me at my old firm was 84. He was the nicest, and a fountain of knowledge and experience, but yeah biglaw partners have no idea how to deal with retirement and basically never retire.
Anonymous
My neighbor is 94. He’s so lovely.
Anon
Nope, this is a common law firm problem and a big part of why firms lose clients when a parent retires. Lots of partners refuse to start transferring their book of business, so their clients don’t develop a relationship with anyone else. The young partner loses out and the firm loses out.
Anonymous
Hahahahaha. Nope. You could literally work for any firm in this country, no matter the size, and this would be the problem.
Anonymous
this
Anonymous
It works one of 2 ways at firms — people working until they’re 90 or firms that have a mandatory age 65 retirement rule. Mine has a mandatory rule — which is short sighted — you can have a book worth billions, you WILL be leaving at 65. But generally though, you may not want to hear it but young partners should NOT be relying on inheriting retiring partners’ business. IME that doesn’t happen the way it used to 20 or 30 years ago, even if the partner holds to a retirement date. In house folks have gotten savvy — when their main relationship guy leaves they don’t necessarily just move the business to the 2nd in command as automatically as they used to; they use that time to shop around different firms where they may get a better deal, move the business to another firm that already has some of their business — so as to become a bigger client of that other firm and thus have more leverage on pricing etc. You need to struggle to build your own book and any inheritance that comes your way is an extra.
Also your firm has no floor? Junior partners are struggling to make 6 figures if they have no book? So there are junior partners making 98k/yr? Where do you live??
anon
Exciting new office plans WITHOUT FLOORS: law firm turns jungle gym! The headscratcher of how greyback partners monkey around until the associates are strong-armed into leaving for greener pastures…
Anonymous
The senior people you are complaining about own the business you work for as an associate, and the reason the firm you work for exists is because they have been successful. Transition to a new generation of leadership requires the next generation of senior associates and partners to be similarly successful in attracting and retaining business. Not everyone has those skills and some will fall out along the way. Try listening to management and successful partners, not those having a hard time making this transition.
Suit for very small person
My 14 year old daughter is beginning debate competitions and needs a suit. She is quite small-5’2” and about 90 pounds. Most juniors clothing is too big for her. Does anyone have a suggestion on where I should look for a very small sized suit? I don’t want to spend a ton of money.
Anonymous
The blog Extra Petite might have recommendations. She might need to get it tailored too.
Anonymous
Try J Crew Factory in 00 petite.
Ms B
If it has to be a suit, I would try either Banana or their outlet or Macy’s (Kasper line), for the smallest petite sizes they have. Plan to tailor.
When I was that age, I wore a blouse, a blazer and a kilt (yes, often with loafers) to compete. I did not transition to suits at all until college debate and mostly wore business-styled dresses (coatdresses – it was the 80s!) at that stage.
I would check with the coach to see what kind of attire is appropriate and common for this age.
Biggest Balls in the Room
I would try someplace like BR that has petite sizing.
Anonymous
BR and a lot of other cheap places have terrible vanity sizing. Petites tend to be a little smaller, but regular sizing at BR runs at least two sizes large in smaller sizes (what ought to be a 4 is a 0).
Flats Only
Seconding this. BR petite sizing runs really, really small, so you should be able to find something that fits at the small end of their range.
Anon
Maybe this is just because I went to inner-city schools, but no one wear a suit to the debate competitions. We just wore a nice outfit, so like a black skirt and nice top. It may be worth checking with her coach on what people wear and whether she actually needs a suit. Just throwing that out there in case you can get away without purchasing a suit.
Anonymous
Maybe from the boys section at H and M with tailoring as needed? The suiting there is extremely affordable – $20/30 per piece.
Anonymous
Oh man, please don’t buy her something from the boys section for suiting, unless that’s her preference. OP, I’d try a mall store (like JC Penney) which normally has suiting in the juniors section. I had some from there in high school for model UN. It’s not super nice comparatively, but it gets the job done. And will likely be what most others are wearing.
busybee
That’s my size and I buy Ann Taylor 00P and get it altered as needed. J Crew and BR have such crazy vanity sizing it’s not even worth it.
Sharon2
My first debate suit was from JC Penney. Tailoring will be helpful.
Anonymous
I did debate in high school (class of 2002), and everyone wore a suit (mine was from Dress Barn). I went to the national tournament as a freshman (youngest on my HS team), where I ended up in tears upon reading a judge’s written criticism on my scoring sheets. He/she criticized my backless slide on shoes and said at least it was good that I wore pantyhose. My coach filed a complaint as the scoring was supposed to focus on the actual debate, not fashion.
Anon
Haaa high school class of ’03 debater here who also wore Dress Barn suits!
Winter
I hear you! After seeing too many comments about appearance (some negative and some supposedly complementary) on score sheets in both debate and speech, one of my coaches did her Masters research on sexism in evaluations. It was about the same time you were in school. Maybe we had some of the same judges, ha.
Ducky
I am 5’2″ and under 100 lbs. I buy most of my suits from Ann Taylor or Theory. The 00P at Ann Taylor will fit her. I occasionally have to take things to be fitted through the hips and thighs, but it doesn’t cost much.
Anom
If you just add a blazer to a nice dress or pants, that could work. She’ll probably like the blazers available in the juniors section, and can fold the sleeves inward. I’m 5’1″ and small boned and I was probably similar to your daughter when I was her age. Unfortunately, this is just part of the difficulty of being a small petite. There’s no source for what you’re looking for that you just haven’t ever heard of.
Anonymous
Friends, can I vent? I feel like my family is really unkind about my husband and I as parents. My cousins’ wives all had kids about the same time we did. I kind of took a back seat during that time because they were a little over the top about their pregnancies and early motherhood (announced early, named the child before birth, lots of emphasis on natural births and bre@stfeeding, lots of angst about returning to work). I declined to find out my kid’s sex, got an epidural, used formula and went back to work. I feel like they were sideyeing me the whole time. Now our kids are about three.
My mom mentioned that the topic of my son and my cousins’ children came up when she was on vacation with her sisters. Everyone agreed that my child is comparatively “easy” and better behaved than the other kids. There was apparently a very long conversation about how we are “lucky and we have no idea.”
I’m so angry. Im not cluelessly bumbling my way through parenthood (anymore than anyone else.) I know that if the tables were turned they’d be whispering about how I’m just not that great at motherhood and my poor child. The thing is, I think I’m a good mom. I’m just not great at performative motherhood and I didn’t love being pregnant. But I feel like my parenting choices were/are ok and valid and they will never acknowledge that.
I know the first response will be “so? get over it” and I don’t know why I’m posting. Maybe I’d someone else has been here they can chime in. Thanks for reading.
Anonymous
Like I hate family sometimes? It is always something: your school, your job, your dating, your not dating, your BF, your fiance, your husband, your baby.
I hate spending time with my SIL. She basically uses us to subsidize her beach vacation, then refuses to talk to us the whole time, just putting in her earbuds and reading on her phone the whole dang time. Like why do we even do this? B/c #family.
At least you can pick your friends. Let the haters hate.
Anonymous
I’m sorry this seems hard. People saying your child is easy and you are lucky though is not remotely in any way being really unkind about you as a parent. At all. Ask your mom to stop repeating gossip.
Anon
That is so obnoxious. No advice other than to cut these women out to the extent possible.
Anon
I’m sure you are a good mom and I understand the frustration about performative motherhood. I’m also sure that if your child is indeed easy and better-behaved than other children, that is entirely luck. Saying you lucked out with an easy child is in no way a negative reflection on your parenting, it is simply recognizing fact that so much of a child’s personality is genetically coded. If you want people to congratulate you for your amazing parenting because you have an easy kid, sorry, you’re a smug mom. And I say that as someone who got an epidural, gave my daughter formula on her second day of life and returned to full-time work.
Seafinch
Hmm. I disagree. Yes, some of this is hardwired. Much of it isn’t. We are surrounded by difficult children who have no routine, live in a lot of indulgent chaos, spend hours and hours in front of screens, don’t sleep enough, and don’t eat properly. My niece is one, for example. When my mother takes over and she gets those basics adjusted, she transforms into a much “easier” child. Having a happy, well-adjusted kid isn’t just luck. It takes work and discipline. Temperment plays a role but it is hardly exclusive. Kudos to OP for ignoring the noise of competitive parenting and just being a good (presumably, reliable and consistent) parent. The attribution of “luck” to success in anything irritates me, so I will certainly congratulate you!
Anon
Bad parenting makes kids’ behavior worse. But good parenting doesn’t guarantee an easy or exceptionally well-behaved kid. Plenty of good parents have super easy, angelic kids, plenty of good parents have really challenging kids and I’d venture that many or even most good parents have kids who are somewhere in between – “normal” (for lack of a better word) kids who can be really sweet and well-behaved but who also melt down and throw temper tantrums occasionally. Saying there’s luck involved in what kind of kid you get and how your kid behaves on any given day doesn’t seem that controversial.
Fwiw, the best parent I know has an incredibly difficult kid. She enforces a strict routine, doesn’t use screens excessively, her kid gets plenty of sleep and she feeds her child healthy homecooked meals (in contrast, my easy kid pretty much lives on Kraft mac n cheese). She is way more patient (while still being firm) with her child than I am, way better at gently disciplining her child than I am, and way way way better at averting and soothing public meltdowns than I am. When I look at her and how she parents, she’s everything I want to be in a mom. And yet, her kid throwing temper tantrums at the zoo and mine isn’t, because my kid is just genetically wired to go with the flow way better than her kid is. Explain to me how that’s anything but luck. It’s tempting for those of us who won the lottery to want to give ourselves lots of credit for our easy children, but the reality is we’re good parents AND we got lucky, both things are true. Lots of people are good parents get unlucky.
RR
I agree with this (and I agree that your family is being annoying and your mom should stop passing on gossip). Having parented both “easy” and “hard” children, there’s not a huge correlation between parenting and a child’s disposition. Obviously, things we do have an impact, but I’m the same parent to my super easy kid as I am to my really intense, difficult kid and to my middle of the road kid. I have definitely thought many times that I’d probably have a different outlook on parenting (and my own skills) if I only had my easy kid. So, if you have an objectively easy kid, you are lucky. Embrace it, enjoy it, love it. Don’t worry about your family’s judgment (and be careful about being judgmental about their parenting–not that you are being, but it’s easy to go down that road).
Anon
“If you want people to congratulate you for your amazing parenting because you have an easy kid, sorry, you’re a smug mom.”
That is NOT what is going on here. The OP’s complaint was that if the cousins had hit the lottery and her child were difficult, everyone would say that the cousins were better moms.
I had a lot of this growing up: if I succeeded in school, it was because I waved my smart-person wand. If I was up until 2 am studying, I had bad time management skills (not an incredible work ethic). When my siblings do not nearly as well in school, it was because they were such hard workers. Double standards exist – you don’t have to agree with the standard to notice that it’s being applied unfairly.
Op
Thank you! That’s exactly it. I just feel like the other moms are the “good moms” because of a weird dynamic from early on and I’m the “bad mom.”
And even my results (a happy sweet kid) are the product of luck and I must have no idea parenting is really like. These women would never say that to a mom who ebf until her child was one and quit her job to work part time.
Anon
You’re welcome.
I’m the poster from last week whose (now former) friend said that her marriage didn’t count because it was later in life. The explanations vary wildly in their stupidity; the underlying idea of “it’s valid and commendable when I do it, but not when you do it” is dreary in its sameness.
Anonymous
Families can be challenging. My daughter and her cousin are the same age and when they were younger there was a lot of comparison/competition. It used to frustrate me (and sometimes still does) but I learned to disengage from any conversation about the kids when it started to venture into that territory. It also helped that I was able to pinpoint which relatives were the primary instigators (my brother and MIL) so I could avoid certain topics with them.
It’s always easier said than done not to care about what other people think (especially when “other people” = family). But I’d guess that the more you can set boundaries and not care about what they say, the better off you’ll be.
Anonymous
Is it possible your mother thought talking about how your child is “easy” was a compliment to you? Because going on about how your cousins’ kids are so poorly behaved doesn’t exactly sound like a compliment to their parents. If this were me, I would have an honest talk with my mom about how I feel hurt.
But also consider if some of this is stuff you are projecting based on your own feelings of inadequacy, or just feeling different? I of course don’t know the full context, but what you described here doesn’t sound like anyone is criticizing your choices or being unkind–aside from perhaps “they have no idea how lucky they are”–just that they made different choices and are bonding over shared experiences which are hard for you to relate to. Their choices are not an implicit criticism of yours. I totally get that it can be painful to feel different from most of your family and empathize with that.
Anon for this
I totally get what you’re saying here. I’ve been told I’m lucky that I have such an awesome husband and he’s so “involved” with our kid. Um, no, not luck. I didn’t marry some rando and hope for the best. We also have an easy kid. Again, this isn’t just luck. We both spend a lot of time with our child and have made things like manners and behavior a priority.
Anon
Hahaha. Oh, honey.
Anonymous
As the mom of an “easy” child, I am under no delusions that this has much to do with my parenting. It’s largely the genetic lottery.
Anon
Yup. My daughter slept through the night before she was a month old, had only one full-on temper tantrum as a toddler, and now as a 3.5 year old can sit through meals at nice restaurants and make conversations with adults. Do I think her behavior would be worse if we (and daycare teachers) hadn’t taught her manners, sure. But I’m aware that 99% of her amazing behavior is due to her very laidback, eager-to-please personality which has been that way since literally the day she came out of me and I take absolutely no credit for. My best friend has a very difficult child, and she is an amazing mother, much better than me. She is the kindest person I know and has emphasized manners and kindness since the very beginning. Her kid just has a very different personality and isn’t as eager to please his parents. It’s so cruel to say your kid is easy because you taught manners, as if all the parents of spirited and special needs kids don’t care about manners.
Anonymous
I have a kid who slept through the night at 5 weeks and self-trained herself to be dry overnight before she was 3. The younger sibling: not so much on either front.
It’s the luck of the draw really.
Knife skills? I do take credit for that, especially for the one who is a lefty.
Anon
Ha to the knife skills! I would tkae credit for stuff like that, but honestly her daycare teachers have taught her pretty much everything on that front.
I’m the mom of an only child who is likely to stay that way, so I’m not big on shaming parents of only children, but I do think this is one area where parents of only children can easily be really smug. If you lucked out with a really easy first kid, and you never have a second, it’s easier to think you deserve all the kudos for your kid’s behavior. I have seen the second child humble many of my friends. Same parental DNA, very similar if not identical parenting, TOTALLY different personality and behavior. It’s humbling and forces you to realize your first kid was good parenting and luck, not just good parenting.
Anonymous
Daycare knife skills almost don’t count b/c they won’t see even plastic knives in school (so that leaves breakfast (waffles!) and dinner (chicken breast) as the times they can learn or re-learn or not unlearn). Le sigh.
Anon
I mean yeah, some kids are definitely easier than others right from birth, no doubt about that, but there are also a lot of behavioral issues that can stem from controllable aspects of the kid’s life. I’ve seen kids who ingest 30 g of sugar and an hour of brightly flashing cartoons at breakfast and three hours of TV in the evening and yeah, they’re extra hyper and demanding. You do that every day and your kid is going to be more difficult than most.
Anon
I think the point is that most difficult kids are not ingesting tons of sugar and cartoons and you shouldn’t default to blaming parents of difficult kids or expecting congratulations for your easy kids because even if you’re the world’s best parent there’s still a lot of luck involved in how your kid behaves.
Anon
+1 I relate to OP. I have an easy kid and totally acknowledge that. But when things aren’t perfect it’s because of something I did. When things go well it’s because of luck. I suspect this wouldn’t be the case if I performed motherhood better/had a less intense career. It’s enraging.
Anon
I totally get what you mean. Good behavior in kids is treated as luck when it’s often the result of a lot of constant hard work.
Anonymous
Teehee. You must be a POOPCUP.
Anon
Found the POOPCUP!
Anon
Gently, no. Try parenting a gifted, intense kid with ADHD. Parenting a more challenging child will teach you quickly exactly where your solid parenting skills end and a child’s personality takes over. My son is doing really, really well because of how much time and energy my husband spend on helping him. But, no one would ever, even on his best day, describe my son as an “easy” kid. Remember that not everyone has the same starting line as you.
Anonymous
Here’s the thing about easy kids – on some level, it is luck and on some level it’s a choice about how hard you are willing to make it. It is in no part making “behavior a priority.” No one sets out to have a kid with bad behavior.
anon
Yeah, I have a difficult kid. We’ve made manners a priority–which makes him a polite, difficult kid. We’ve made behavior a priority–which means he has 3 therapy sessions a week, DH and I spend a ton of time in meetings with therapists and teachers, and we use all kinds of therapist-recommended parenting techniques. It’s exhausting and time-consuming and expensive. We hope our kid will turn out OK. But I reject the position that we have a difficult kid because we don’t make behavior a priority or because we’re not good parents.
Anon
Yes, and commiseration from someone else in the trenches.
Anon
I had a polite, difficult toddler. Here’s how his tantrums went, complete with lying on the ground kicking:
NO THANK YOU! NO THANK YOU! NO THANK YOU!!!!! IT’S NOT MY FAVORITE!!
Anon
That actually made me laugh out loud. If I saw a kid having this kind of tantrum I would totally think his parents were amazing for teaching him to be so polite.
Senior Attorney
Haha this is great.
Seventh Sister
My favorite tantrum from my first was when she was shouting, “I DON’T LIKE THIS PLACE! DON’T TOUCH MY BODY!” when I was trying to change her. So furious, so assertive and trying to be polite.
anon@11:08
Lol, YES, that is exactly what I meant by “polite, difficult toddler” and exactly what his tantrums sound like.
anon
Total commiseration.
Anon
I think bad parenting tends to make kids badly behaved, but the converse (good parenting makes kids well-behaved) is not true. If your children are easy, you are probably in the vast majority of people that are good parents, but you definitely also won the genetic lottery.
Seventh Sister
My first kid was a fairly easy baby and an easy toddler. My second kid was a super easy baby and a hell-on-wheels toddler/preschooler/kindergartener. Until I had the second kid, I was pretty smug about the effect my Awesome Parenting ™ had on first kid’s behavior. The second kid cured me of that but good.
Anon
Bless your heart.
Anon
OK, no one will agree on how much good parenting helps your kids’ behavior, but I think we can agree that it’s not just blind luck that results in good husband and father. It’s lucky to MEET the right person, but it’s a choice to marry them and not someone else.
Anon
That I agree with. I was lucky to meet my husband at a young age for sure. I am not “lucky” that I have an equal partner. I would not have procreated with someone who wouldn’t be an equal partner.
Anon
I mean “I’m not ‘lucky’ that I have an equal partner in parenting” – certainly if I had not met my husband I might be partner-less and that would be luck. But I would not be raising children with someone who isn’t pulling his weight.
Anonymous
Nah, you really don’t know what kind of co-parent you have until your kids arrive. You can definitely try your very best to talk about it, look at the values you see at play in his family, etc. but you can’t know for sure. My husband did more than 50% of the housework and spoke a good game about equal parenting before we had kids but once the rubber hit the road we both discovered that he had a lot of latent assumptions that I would do most the emotional and physical labour of caring for our babies and he would entertain and teach our kids when they were older (or something).
Ultimately, I don’t think you can take credit for what kind of parent your husband is. You are lucky that he stepped up to the plate when the time came. Not that you don’t deserve it, you do, and every co-parent does. But it’s not something that was or ever will be in your control.
Anon
This is great in theory but just like women can’t know for sure what kind of mom they will be until they have a kid men are similar. Sure I have friends with husbands who don’t carry their weight and it surprises no one but I also have friends whose husbands are way less involved than they were led to believe in the many conversations they had pre kids
Anonymous
The truth is, if you have an easy (neuronormative?) child, you are lucky. You could be doing your absolute best as a parent and still end up with a challenging child. You have a great kid, you’re a great mom, and you have the fringe benefit of knowing both those things so you won’t spend these precious years distracted by worry and self-doubt. That’s pretty lucky. Focus on being grateful for and enjoying the great parent/child relationship you have, and don’t waste a moment of your time thinking about what your family thinks or says.
Kp
The issue is not whether some kids are easy. This was a family conversation not a genetics seminar. The reason you feel hurt is that these women cannot say maybe she did a good job, maybe she knows something we don’t. They don’t like you and are horrified that you might “beat” them at anything. You are being scapegoated.
Anon
They shouldn’t have to say “maybe she knows something we don’t.” That’s absurd.
Anonymous
It sounds like the other family members with children are enthusiastic parents trying hard so I don’t know why they should be villified in any way for not having an easy child like the OP. There was nothing wrong with the parenting choices they made either – lots of people choose to find out the gender of their babies before birth, try hard for a natural birth and EBF. I think it would be very painful for a mother who feels heavily invested in being a good parent but ends up with a challenging kid anyway to have to say about other parents who have ended up with good kids “that parent is better than I am”. The only lesson to be taken from this is that there’s not really much to be gained by comparing and pitting kids or parents within the same family against each other.
Op
Thanks to you and to everyone. I know having an “easy kid” is luck,to some extent. FWIW, I don’t think he’s any better behaved than these other kids. I’ve seen videos of their “horrible tantrums” and it looks like a totally normal tantrums that my kid would also throw. I just don’t record his.
Your comment stuck a cord because I was thinking about what you said about how we wouldn’t tell the ebf natural birth mom who feels “heavily invested” that someone else did a good job. I guess, my point is, that we don’t tell those moms it’s luck and they are totally clueless about parenthood when their children are lovely. It’s a special kind of backhanded praise that’s really just for moms like me, at least in my family. Also, I feel very heavily invested in motherhood.
Anon
OP, I get where you’re coming from. Some families decide that some members are worthy of praise and other members aren’t, no matter what they do. Some families decide that only a handful of life choices or “performances” are valid, and others are not. Some families decide that only certain types of “investment” count, much of it performative and not substantive.
Hugs. This is about them and not you.
The only thing I can say is that you have a chance with your child to establish new norms in your family – you, husband, child. That’s an incredible gift.
Anonymous
I had an epidural and I weaned earlier than I planned to because I hated bre@stfeeding (and I feed my kid store bought food and I let him watch Baby Shark while I get ready for work). I made those choices because they made my motherhood journey easier, and I’m grateful I did because it’s been hard and I needed something to give so I could keep happily journeying on. But I am the first to recognize another mom for the energy she puts into a 30 hour labour without pain relief, or bre@stfeeding for a year despite the hassles, or preparing organic vegetable purees, or finding a creative way to entertain her kid to avoid screen time. It’s not like there’s a limited number of “Good Mom” spots available. You can feel good about your choices and applaud other moms for theirs as well, and motherhood would be easier for all of us if we did.
Pacific North
This subthread is hilarious.
So I guess European children are “genetically pre-disposed” to good behavior, while American children are not? Why else it is possible, while traveling internationally, to immediately identify the American kids? And why were circumstances different ~60 years ago – e.g. why were American children comparatively so much better behaved in the mid-century? Or does the majority on this board think that “genes” change that quickly?
Anon
I travel internationally a ton and have family abroad and I totally disagree that European kids are uniformly better-behaved or that you can easily identify American children. I have seen plenty of Euro kids crying in public and plenty of American kids sitting quietly in restaurants eating with their parents. There is a different parenting culture in terms of how “hands on” parents are, but I don’t think it has much effect on behavior.
American parenting has certainly changed in the last century, but not for the worse, in my opinion. A generation ago, spanking was much more common than it is now. Hitting your kids makes them fear you, so yes maybe if you hit them regularly, it makes them less likely to have a temper tantrum in front of you when they’re 3. But we now know that it messes up their development in myriad ways so most people choose not to hit their kids.
Anon
Also keep in mind that in the mid-20th century special needs weren’t really recognized. Someone with severe autism would have been labeled retarded and put in a home or at least not integrated with the “normal” kids in the way ASD kids are now. I think it’s a good thing that our society has become (generally) more empathetic and understanding that people can have different wiring but can still be intelligent, productive members of society. But it’s really not an apples to apples comparison to compare today’s kids to 1950s kids.
Anon
I totally agree – you can identify the European kids in two seconds. They’re the ones sitting and playing quietly with a toy while the American kids are screeching and running up and down the train aisles and spilling food everywhere. It’s become a fun game for us when we travel to find the European kids.
Ugh
Oh no you can’t. Stop doing that. You’re not the only who travels a lot, and that’s a total lie. American parents (read *mothers*) are doing a good job. Kids are kids.
Anon
I’m entitled to my own observations without being called a liar, thanks. Are you also calling Pamela Druckerman a liar for making the same observations in her best-selling book Bringing Up Bebe? She literally opens the book with a compare and contrast scene between American and French kids in restaurants. You can choose to ignore it if it’s not interesting to you, but that doesn’t mean generalized differences don’t exist.
Anon
Pamela Druckerman was trying to sell books. She wouldn’t have sold a lot of books if her premise was some kids are tough and some kids are easy, all around the world. But what I just said is true.
Anon
It’s been ages since I read Bringing up Bebe but I thought part of her point was that French parents tend to do what they want to do (eg., go to fancy restaurants) and just bring their kids along, while American parents generally feel more pressure to do “child-friendly” things when they have their children with them. So of course European kids are going to have more experience in the kind of adult-friendly situations you might encounter in Europe (eg., restaurants with white tableclothes), and will handle it better because it’s not their first time in the situation. It doesn’t mean the children are better behaved overall or are being raised “better.”
Fwiw, I’m a mom and I also tend to think all kids tend to meltdown more when traveling due to jetlag, unfamiliar surroundings, etc., so comparing Parisian children in Paris to American (or Canadian or Chinese) children in Paris seems a bit unfair. Do you really have a lot of experience observing European children behaving angelically in the US? Because I think that would be a more apt comparison.
Anon
https://www.thelocal.fr/20120118/2317
“As she peers into the world of Gallic child-rearing, she discovers that not only do French children behave better at the dinner table, they also seem to sleep better, learn good manners and are less prone to shrieking tantrums. So, what makes the French approach so effective? Druckerman describes it as “a combination of being very strict about a few key things but also giving children lots of freedom.” French parents tend to set rigorous rules around a few key areas including food, meal times and sleeping. They also teach children the importance of waiting, rather than giving in immediately to each new demand.”
Anon
No, that wasn’t something she really covered that much. I have a longer reply in m*d but she talks about how behavior at mealtimes is better because French parents are very strict about it.
Ugh
When I think somebody is lying, I’m entitled to call them a liar.
Also French parents spank their kids more.
Anon
So everyone who doesn’t think just like you is a liar and you are the one supremely knowledgeable woman on this site (and probably the best mother in the world too?). Got it.
Ugh
Yep. Now get back to scowling at young children and judging parents. What a delightful way to travel the world!
Anonymous
Whoa, my daughter must be an undercover European.
Anon
Mine too! Haha.
Anon
For what it’s worth, the worst behavior I’ve ever seen from a child (and really, the parents are to blame) was a French mother and child on a red eye flight from the US to Paris. The mom had noise-cancelling headphones and was reading and ignoring her hysterical child, who kept everybody on the plane awake for the entire flight. (I’m a mom, I’m aware that sometimes kids cry on planes and it’s unavoidable but if you’re doing your own thing while your child screams MAMAN MAMAN MAMAN continuously for 8 hours on an overnight flight, you are not being considerate to those around you.)
Seventh Sister
When we were in Iceland, my son and a sweet little German boy communicated using the universal language of whacking each other with wooden swords in the museum playplace. Luckily the German mom thought it was just as funny as I did.
rosie
Putting aside the nature/nurture thing on easy kids, this comment gets me because it is so freaking presumptuous. I did not get the impression that all of these people are particularly close to OP. So getting their treasured opinion about how easy OP’s kid is and how oblivious OP is to it is ridiculous. Like when people have met my toddler for all of 2 minutes and make a similar statement (oh, and bonus points if they connect her being an easy kid to her being a girl and make sweeping statements about how I must be so glad I don’t have a rowdy boy).
Anon
So much this. People tell me I have an easy kid and am so lucky I have a girl all the time. Yes she is an easy kid in general but you’ve spent 30 minutes with her. How could you possible comment on her general disposition? If you caught her when she was hungry and overtired you’d say she was a difficult kid (or more likely that I’m a bad mom)
Seventh Sister
My mom is generally pretty supportive, but I know most of my relatives will never, ever, understand why I choose to raise my kids in a crime-infested hellhole and send them to school with the children of people who aren’t “real” Americans. I think I’m basically a good mom, but I’m never going to win this competition.
Nelly Yuki
My work computer is a laptop that I plug into a charger and external monitor. The laptop sits on top of a filing cabinet under my desk (so it’s out of the way, and I have a wireless mouse and keyboard). Is there a non-hideous way to keep the cords on the filing cabinet so I don’t have to pull them off the floor every day?
Anonymous
Poppin jumbo cable catch.
Anon
You can buy stick-on cord holders from A mazon or T arget that will hold your cord(s) in place.
Annie
I’m thrilled to have been invited to go shooting in the UK this fall- traditional, driven bird shooting in the west country. I’m going to have to go shopping! Have any of you been- what did you wear? I’m looking at tweeds and at photos of Kate Middleton in casual country wear for inspiration, and although I understand there are ‘rules’ about what’s appropriate and what’s not, I’m hoping to bring things I already own, including a Barbour jacket and wellies. At the risk of sounding like our new friend around here, where on earth could I find comfortable and flattering tattersal sh1rts? What else should I be considering?
Anon
That sounds cool. Do you eat the birds? I’d wear the Barbour and high wellies. Stick to wool for the other layers. Don’t wear anything neon unless specifically instructed to for safety.
Anon
Orvis is great for this.
BB
If you are stopping by London, Cordings is perfect for this. They have a pretty good online site too. I find their sizing can vary based on the cut of the garment though.
Anon
Paging Houda – she’s great for all things British country fashion.
Anonymous
No advice, but this totally makes me think of The Crown.
Anonymous
+1 to thinking of The Crown!
Annie
Following up, just in case anyone else is ever in this position- go see Ramona at London Trading Company in ATL- or just check out their site. She helped me to find things that are appropriate and comfortable- what a win!
Cuyana Clothing??
I have a Cuyana tote and travel make up cases that I love – does anyone have experience with their clothes? I am considering a few pieces for an upcoming trip and curious if anyone has experience with quality, sizing and/or recommendations of favorites. Thanks!
Anon
I have a black silk T from them and I love it, but I find the sizing runs really big, at least on the lower end (I wear a 0/XS normally). I would own more of their clothes but it is just too big on me. The quality is really great.
Annie
I also have a couple silk T’s from them- they’re about standard for other size L things I have- maybe cut a little small at the arm holes. They’ve held up beautifully for several years!
I tried on a coat a while ago and it was WAY too small.
Anon
Any creative ideas for dealing with chronic interrupters? A family member persistently talks over people until they stop and she can take over the conversation. Even when the person talking is giving cues that they want to keep talking, she won’t stop until she gets the floor. It’s so uncomfortable. The one time I gently said, “Let her finish” she got mad.
Anonymous
Wait you’ve only once said “let me finish”?!? Start saying it every time, let her be mad. Also “I wasn’t finished” and “please stop interrupting “ and “cold silence followed by ‘as I was saying’l. Unless this person is 90.
Anon
Let her be mad, how is that a terrible thing? Stop being afraid to offend over this person who clearly is trying to run over other people. Instead of everyone else being uncomfortable, the interrupter should be uncomfortable.
Vicky Austin
+1. Let her be mad all she likes. She’s in the wrong.
anonymous
Frankly, you just need to have an honest conversation. I have a great friend who used to do this and it drove me out of my mind to the point where I thought I’d have to end the friendship. One day we just talked about it (others talked with her about it as well) and we are still close friends. She’s much better now. Note, she is the kind of person who wants to be kind and a good conversationalist. She just didn’t know she was doing it/how stressful it was. If she was some sort of unbridled narcissist I doubt the conversation would have been effective.
Anonymous
Try saying in a neutral tone “it’s rude to interrupt” then prompt the conversation to continue without her before she can respond.
Anonymous
Maybe say “[Person who was interrupted], I’d love to hear the end of your story about X”. It might be easier for family member to take if your comment is not directed at her.
anon
Let her get mad.
Anonymous
What % of this board self identifies as being depressed or anxious? Seems like every 3rd person who has posted in the last 2 days claims one or the other. Seems like a huge #. How much is for real vs self diagnosed vs the in thing right now to claim these issues?
Anon
Can you just not?
Ribena
Oh yes, also this. I heard a bushy-tailed student in a coffee shop recently expounding her theory that people just claim depression now, because they think taking meds is easier than sitting and crying for a bit and then moving on with her day. I wanted to tell her about all the time I spent crying all day and unable to get out of bed or take care of myself physically.
Anon
Or the other argument, would Van Gogh have been Van Gogh if Prozac had been around?
Anonymous
You should watch Nannette on Netflix. He was working under the medical are and medication of the time. Or read one of the zillion articles about why Kanye would be a better artist if he took his meds.
Senior Attorney
OMG that reminds me of the part in Hannah Gadsby’s Nanette about how maybe Van Gogh WAS van Gogh because of the medication he was taking. So great…
https://scrapsfromtheloft.com/2018/07/21/hannah-gadsby-nanette-transcript/
Anonymous
+1000
Ribena
Diagnosed with clinical depression as a student. I consider it something that I’m always “in recovery” from.
Anon
I’ve never been on any mental health meds or in therapy, but I think my personality trends toward anxious and I’ve had periods where (in hindsight) I believe I was depressed. It was situational and getting out of the situation (eg, a toxic job) alleviated my depression. This might be counter-intuitive, but my anxiety has gotten a lot better since becoming a mom.
Anon
Go away troll.
anonymous
Get stuffed.
Anon
Every third person? Really? As of 11:38 am MDT I had to scroll up 124 comments from yours to find one that mentioned any kind of mental illness, anxiety, or therapy. Don’t make up statistics to justify your bias.
Anonymous
Yes and all pear shaped too. Depressed, anxious, and pear-shaped. LOL
Anon
Paging the 5’4″ish high-waisted pears from yesterday! Didn’t have a chance to respond yesterday, but I have this exact body shape and wanted to share what works for me:
Tie-waist pants are a godsend. Tuck in a scoop-neck tank and then wear a longer blazer. This cut makes me feel amazing, nips me in at my smallest point and covers my larger hips/butt/belly.
I also love midi skirts with elastic waists because you can position them wherever you want and they’ll accommodate a larger belly.
For evening/going out, try a bodysuit with higher-waisted jeans.
I feel more confident with at least my collarbone exposed. Something about the proportions. Just seems to make me look more streamlined.
Basically, any combo of fitted tops/looser bottoms is good for us. And thankfully, this happens to be in style right now after a decade of loose tops/fitted bottoms!
Biggest Balls in the Room
Where are you finding your tie waist pants? I’m quite a bit taller than you, but extremely high waisted.
Anon
Try the Express High-Waisted Paper Bag Ankle Pant. I bought mine two years ago and I still wear them all the time and get compliments often.
I would never have discovered those pants if it weren’t for Extra Petite (don’t think I’ve set foot in an Express in 20 years!), but it’s pretty amazing. I buy the medium and it’s full-length on me, which is perfect, but if you wanted a true ankle pant, you could get a petite version.
I also have a pair from Zara that I like. Good luck!
Job Dissatisfaction - Cyclical?
‘Rettes . . . I seem to get bored/impatient with a job 2 – 3 years into it. There are many, many frustrating things about my job currently, although I work with a pretty good team. Additionally, I am bored. My boss and my big boss know I want to move into a different position, but they are not able to guarantee anything. My big boss gives me projects that are somewhat outside the scope of my current position and which are more in the scope of the position I want to move in to. I have plenty of work to do, but none of it is particularly intellectually challenging. I know my big boss doesn’t want to lose me, but there are no current open recs for the position I want to move in to, and while he is trying to create one, there are no guarantees (as our budget has to stay flat for the next FY).
I don’t know what I am looking for here. Maybe I am just venting as my frustrations have been mounting over the last few weeks. Does anyone else feel like they need a major change around the 2 – 3 year mark in a job? How do you scratch that itch without looking like a job hopper?
Ducky
Sounds pretty normal. I tend to change jobs about every 3 years for the same reasons. I don’t think there is anything wrong with wanting new opportunities. It’s better than staying in one place until you are so bored that you feel the need to act out in other areas of your life.
I can understand wanting to stay because you like your boss. Can you find a client that will pay you to do more of the work that you like? It sounds like funding is the primary obstacle. Maybe you should look for ways to bring new funding into your organization.
Anonymous
No advice, but commiseration. I could have written this. I’m coming up on 4 years at this job and it’s the longest I’ve been able to tolerate working anywhere. I’m bored out of my mind. I work for a large company but I’m a 100% remote employee, so that limits my options as far as moving within the organization. To further complicate matters, I’m pregnant and my husband is making a major job change in the spring, so I absolutely cannot make a move to switch companies right now.
ATL rette
What’s a good part of Paris to stay in as a single woman traveling alone? I’ll most likely do an Airbnb and would like to be centrally located/adjacent but in a quiet/quieter part of the city. Being by a metro stop would be ideal.
No real plans, but hoping to do museum wandering, vintage shopping, eating and drinking, a lot of just Paris wandering…I’ve done most of the big sights but with a tour group, so am not opposed to say, spending an entire day at the Louvre and surrounding area.
Anon
If you have safety concerns, I’d go with a small, older hotel over an Airbnb. There are just so many sketchy factors about Airbnb that would make me uncomfortable if I were traveling alone. The 6th or 7th arrondissements might be good choices for you – you can still get peace and quiet but stay centrally located.
Ribena
There are also serious ethical concerns about the way whole-home AirBnBs (because these are apartments that should be homes) are hollowing out neighbourhoods.
Anon
I’ve stayed twice in Airbnbs on Ile de la Cite — those located in the middle or near the “point” (the western end) are really conveniently located to a bunch of Metro lines thanks to the combination of Chatelet, Pont Neuf, Cite, and St Michel.
You might not think that staying on Cite would be quiet, but when the crowds leave at night, it’s super peaceful. We loved the restaurants on Place Dauphine. And there’s easy grocery-produce-wine-bakery shopping 10-15 minute walk into the 6th.
BB
I second the recommendation to do a hotel over an Airbnb if you are alone. FWIW, I stayed in the 6th the first time I want to Paris (didn’t know any better) and HATED it. It’s super touristy and crowded and all the food places I wanted to go to were elsewhere. I am a big fan of Le Marais (3rd + 4th) as it’s where a lot of indie shops and restaurants are but still very high end and safe. Last time I was there alone, I actually stayed at a small hotel in the 11th and loved it, but probably wouldn’t recommend it if you are doing a first time tourist trip. It’s a short metro from Louvre, Notre Dame etc., but it is quieter and has a lot of cool local cafes and stores nearby.
Anon
I love the Marais but I think its’ not the optimal place to say on a first trip because it’s not walking distance to most of the tourist stuff, especially the left bank.
We took our toddler early this year and stayed right near Jardin du Luxembourg – I think it was technically the 6th but the backside (close to the 14th and far away from the crowds of St Germain des Pres). We traveled all over the city for food but there were plenty of nice, non-touristy restaurants near our hotel. It was an easy walk to most Left Bank attractions and the near-Right Bank stuff like the Louvre.
ATL rette
This isn’t my first trip to Paris, per my original post, but it’s my first time not going with a group. What hotel did you stay at? This is more of what I’m wanting from my trip: neighborhood feel, not super touristy, etc
BB
The Mercure Paris Bastille. Fair warning, the rooms are really tiny (like pretty much just fit a king bed with a desk jammed up against it). Worked great for me as one person for 3 nights, but would never have done it if I were travelling with my husband. It’s right in front of the Voltaire metro station, about 15 minute walk to Pere Lachaise, 10 minute walk to Bastille, maybe 20 minutes to the Marais. There are several really cute bistros within a 2 block radius, including Au Bon Crus which was profiled in the NYTimes recently (where I ate alone). There is also an amazing local bakery chain Maison Landemaine right behind it, and an adorable local cafe Paul et Rimaud about 5 minutes away. It’s also only 10 minutes from my absolute favorite chocolate croissant in all the world at Ble Sucre. If you’re comfortable with the Paris metro and generally walking around (and okay with tiny rooms), I highly recommend it!
Anon
The two times I’ve gone I stayed near Place Vendome and loved it. I know you’re looking for Air BnB but if you’re open to hotels, both the Hyatt Vendome and the Marriott Vendome are lovely. The Hyatt is a little posher.
expat in Paris
I like the 14th arondissement, near the rue Daguerre or along/to the west of avenue du General Leclerc. It’s residential but lively, prosperous but not one-percent-y. It’s well-connected by public transit and there are good AirBnbs (as well as hotels) in this area.
Anon
I have stayed close to the Saint-Paul metro station and felt very safe at night. That’s the 4th arrondissement.
My hotel was the Hotel de JoBo (Josephine Bonaparte is the name behind the JoBo), which is a boutique hotel that looks like a bordello (crazy, vulgar decor) but which is a lovely, comfortable hotel with great beds, great toiletries and excellent location.
BTW, the Louvre metro station in Paris is the only place in Europe (or Asia or the Americas) where I have been hailed by obvious pick-pockets trying to stall and rob me. Seriously, the only place, and I have been in very sketchy places. (And no, I’m not being uncharitable. NO ONE who speaks native French and looks well-put-together would ask an obvious tourist with a suitcase “help” to find a tourist attraction without wanting access.) I have had similar stories from others concerning the Paris metro – don’t look like a tourist. :)
Cute white sneakers?
I would like white casual stylish sneakers for walking around that are also extremely comfortable given that I have very picky problem feet. Something I can wear without socks and that would look good with dresses and skirts. I have heard Allbirds are great, but my size in the style and color I like are backordered and I need to buy within the next week before a trip. Any suggestions in the under-$200 range? I usually wear Skechers sneakers, but I can’t find any cute white ones.
Anonymous
This may sound crazy, but it is said that Adidas Superstars are quite comfortable. They don’t work for me because I have narrow feet, but my teenager and Shana from TME both love them and they are super cute with dresses and skirts.
anonypotamus
Cole Haan Grandpro Tennis sneaker. Super lightweight and comfortable – goes with everything! Not a ton of arch support but they work with inserts if needed. You can usually find previous seasons’ versions on 6pm, amazon, or sometimes DSW. I find they run big and order an 8 (normally I am an 8.5). I’ll post the current version in a reply.
anonypotamus
https://www.colehaan.com/grandpro-tennis-sneaker-optic-white-leather/W02897.html
Nylon girl
Treetorns
Anon
Onitsuka Tigers
Hildy
Anyone know of any part time at home legal work for attorneys (or non-legal work!) that pays relatively well? I previously specialized in tax law if that’s relevant, but I’m flexible.
I left my big-law senior associate job several years ago rather abruptly after we had a child with some additional needs. Now our son is heading to kindergarten for from roughly 9-3 and I’m looking to get back into the work force. Has anyone had any luck in a similar situation? I attended a top school, was a top performer at work, etc. but realize that this gap in my resume is a huge issue and am realistic about how difficult it may be to find something. Thanks for any advice!
Anon
Up counsel, axiom, or similar “work from home on short term/part time projects” might be a good way to start. But tbh, a lawyer out of work for five years will not be the most desirable candidate. It probably makes more sense for you to start local, maybe do part time work at a small firm where you can get your feet wet again, because a lot of the Up counsel, axiom type work involves you being THE lawyer on the project and as someone in a corporate setting I wouldn’t want someone five years out of the work force using my project as a test run to brush up on their skills.
If you are doing this for financial reasons and not just “I want to work again”, due diligence firms might be useful though very boring.
Hildy
Thanks, I’ll check those out – and yeah, I fully realize that I’m not the most desirable candidate because of the gap!
Anon
Search for “attorney” jobs on LinkedIn, set your geographic parameters to the United States, and use the word “remote” as a keyword. You will come up with a bunch about how you can’t do remote, but you’ll also come up with remote opportunities.
Bliss Lawyers sometimes has remote positions posted, if you are barred in the state in which you are located.
If this is just about earning some money, many doc review positions are remote, or are remote after the first day of training in the office.
Hildy
Awesome, thank you for these ideas!
Anon
I work with a specialty legal publisher in tax. You can write me at tootaxy at Geemail
Hildy
I will, thank you!
Anonymous
Does your area have an On Ramp program for parents returning to the workforce? Some of the large firms in my area are doing short term hires through On Ramp, to help lawyers get rolling again.
Hildy
There are lots, but I’m not ready to commit to full time work yet – but I’ve definitely bookmarked some for the future.
azcpa
You can also consider working as a “Tax Expert” for Intuit – they hires tons of CPAs, JDs, and EAs to work from home during spring and fall.
Hildy
This is a good idea, thank you!
Litigator in Charlotte
Check out The Mom Project (www.https://themomproject.com). They post flexible, part-time and often remote positions for lawyers and other professionals. They are relatively new so I expect more postings will come as the word gets out.
Non-Negotiably Lazy
I have been really struggling to make myself work out for the past year. Previously, I would go to yoga or the gym at least 6 days a week (there have been periods where I was doing two yoga classes every day). I went through a phase where I wasn’t going at all (or even thinking about going) due to a depressive episode. I am now on medication and feel great, and all the things that I had lost during the episode have come back, except that it’s like pulling teeth to make myself go to the gym. I absolutely love yoga and spinning and feel great once the class is over, but this doesn’t seem to be enough to get my a** to the gym. Every day I sign up for a morning class which I don’t go to, a lunch class to replace the missed morning class, which I also don’t go to, and an evening class which I don’t go to because by then I’m tired and hungry and don’t have the energy for it. At the time I sign up for these classes, I FULLY intend to go and am even excited to do so. My gym is literally in my office building, which is a 7 minute walk from my home, I keep workout clothes in my bag and at my office, and I have friends who go to my gym. None of this seems to be enough, and instead I am guilty every night for another day of yet again not going! It needs to somehow be imprinted in my mind/made into a habit that the daily hour of exercise is not-negotiable, because I always find a way to negotiate my way out of it with myself. Anyone deal with something similar or have any ideas for how to make the gym a non-negotiable part of my day?
Anon
I’m not sure what advice there is to give other than…. just go. Tell yourself you are going to do it tomorrow morning and then follow through.
anon
Girl I feel you so hard. Same thought patterns. Can you register for classes where you’ll get charged a fee if you bail? At least, until you get back in the habit? I love yoga. I get runner’s highs. I can discipline myself to do so many things, and yet, every day its “oh I’ll go after work when I’m all rev’d up and need to get energy out and have eaten all the protein” 6:45 rolls around “ugh I should get this thing out the door and I’m tired and cranky, I’ll do fitness blender at home after dinner” and then “blah I’d rather xyz, plus I’m getting sleepy, so I can wake up early and do it, then I’ll feel all focused during the day” *wakes up the next morning* “yeah, no.”
all about eevee
I also love yoga and practice for at least 90 minutes a day. Lately, I have been streaming online classes instead of going to brick and mortar classes. It’s a lot easier for me to practice in my own home for an hour instead of having to go to a studio or gym. This way, even if it is 9 PM and I am tired and cranky, I get my 90 minutes of exercise in.
Senior Attorney
I always tell myself that 7:30 Me is going to be so happy if 4:30 Me can just get her act together. Somehow that seems to help.
Anonymous
Maybe lean into it & give yourself a defined break of several weeks with a set return date. And don’t allow yourself to inconvenience others by reserving & not showing.
Anonymous
Is there a fun reward you can give yourself, like stopping for a fancy coffee after class? If you do that for a couple of weeks you can re-establish the habit and then drop the reward.
The other thing that works for me is spending $$$ on cute spandex clothes that I can’t wait to wear. Not sure I can recommend this strategy.
Anon
If you find an answer, please share it with the rest of us. This has been me since I was a teen.
What I have found that works for me is to make it a part of my routine, ideally with plans to meet friends. For example, two days a week I go to an exercise class with friends. I go directly from work, don’t stop at home before hand, and get a ride from a friend so I have to tell her if I’m not going. I know that, for me, if I stopped at home, I’m not leaving again to work out.
CHL
I might suggest lowering your threshold — so go for 10 minutes or 20 minutes (an hour seems intimidating to me!) When I didn’t feel like going, I would say I was just going to go and be on the treadmill for a mile. And then 90% of the time I wanted to do more but I had permission to leave.
anon
You don’t need negotiation or motivation. You need discipline.
Somehow re-framing in my mind that it takes discipline to do things I don’t want to do, rather than waiting around for a motivation that is never going to show up was the thing that made me start working out.
Anonymous
The only thing that can get me out of bed for morning workouts is a programmable coffee pot.
Silly Valley
Could it be that you’re signing up for classes, and you don’t feel up for the social interaction? If so, try working out alone, just taking a walk, or something along those lines.
Anon this time
Thought this would be interesting to post among so many lawyers. It’s about nominations to the federal bench:
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/08/no-more-corporate-judges/596383/
Alanna of Trebond
This may be my own biases speaking, but I think this will result in nominees being generally more white. Minorities have less ability to rely on family wealth to pay back loans from law school and so, may invariably do a few years at a corporate law firm.
Anonymous
+1
I did the same because I didn’t have any other way to pay back loans.
Smelly
My house has a smell … don’t want to be disrespectful to anyone but some say it’s old people smell. We generally don’t notice it, but whenever we come home from a trip, we get a whiff of the smell as soon as we enter it. We had the carpets cleaned, some rooms tested for mold (have a baby so we needed to be sure). It’s an older house built in 1975 and when we moved in few years ago, everything was freshly painted. We are thinking about replacing all the carpets next. Anyone have a similar problem?
Also second question. Thinking about using a room freshener. I really can’t stand febreze/ glaze type fresheners. Anyone have a recommendation for a subtle & more natural freshener brands? I am thinking the ones with a wicker or humidifier? Thanks!
BB
A good reed diffuser might work for you. We got one for our second bathroom which had a bit of humid bathroom smell at first. It’s a very light scent, and I like that it’s totally passive (no electronics needed or anything) plus you can get ones that are very attractive.
Anon
Try plants and keeping the windows open a lot more than you currently are to start. Avoid trying to cover it up with artificial scents – that’s a way to emphasize old person smell more than anything.
pugsnbourbon
+1 to plants and windows. I also found some activated charcoal tubs on the evil river site. They are Gonzo Natural Magic Odor Air-Magnet with Activated Charcoal. I keep them in my kitchen and the corners of my basement.
Cat
Fresh air and a dehumidifier.
Skip the air fresheners.
Anonanonanon
Seconding the dehumidifier rec.
Anon
If you mean it has a musty smell, try DampRid – I liked the lavender scent when I lived in a musty condo.
After that, give essential oils in a diffuser a whirl. There are lots of “recipes” on pinterest.
Hildy
If you replace carpets, just move to wood floors – carpets are super bad for indoor air quality, my son has asthma and we don’t even have any indoor rugs at our pediatricians recommendation.
Also – just keep your windows open as much as you can! And plants! As recommended above.
Please DON’T use essential oils or any type of diffuser to cover up the smell, it’s always noticeable and entering a house that is perfumed in some way definitely smells like my grandma’s house.
Anonymous
Have you looked for water leaks in every possible location? We had a mysterious smell and I finally figured out that there was a small puddle of fetid water in a storage bin under a sink from a slow leak that had been there for who knows how long. Fixing the leak and cleaning up the puddle eliminated the smell.
Don’t try to use scented products to cover up the smell–it will just smell even worse. Houseplants can actually filter out some of the smell.
Of Counsel
Yes and I have two suggestions:
(1) Go to Costco and buy two (or three or four depending on the size of your house) of their enormous bottles of Kirkland brand vodka. Get a spray bottle, fill it with vodka and spray the heck out of every soft surface.
(2) If that does not work, replace the carpet/pad. The smell is probably in the carpet pad and there is no getting it out short of replacement.
anon
I’m betting the smell is still lurking in your carpets or floorboards.
T
Zeolite rocks. You can buy them in bags if you search “Gonzo odor eliminator” on the river site. I’ve also just purchased them in bulk and put them in buckets around the house. You put them out in the sun or in the oven once a month or so to “recharge” them.
Second is to get a great HEPA air filter, several of us on here have the Wirecutter’s recommended Coway model.
Anonome
Have your ducts professionally cleaned and replace all the air filters in your HVAC system.
Smelly
Thank you all. We had the ducts cleaned professionally. We can’t really open the windows downstairs, so we are in the process of installing two new windows so there is better air circulation. I guess I will try your suggestions one by one to see what works the best.
annonymous
Any recommendations for a career coach in the Boston area for a mid-level attorney considering leaving the law (2011 grad)? Any recommendations about how to locate a coach experienced in law transition is appreciated!