Splurge Monday’s Workwear Report: Dash Pleated Twill Barrel-Leg Pants
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Our daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices.
I’ve been seeing barrel-leg pants out in the wild over the last few months, but I hadn’t seen them in the office until very recently. As with any trendy item, making them office-appropriate always comes down to styling. These pants from Altazurra don’t have an especially wide barrel, so I think they’d be fine for most offices, especially if paired with a slim-fitting top or a blazer.
The pants are $995 at NET-A-PORTER and come in French sizes 34-46.
Sales of note for 5/1:
- Ann Taylor – Friends of Ann Event, 40% off your purchase PLUS $50 off $200! Readers love this popover blouse, and their suiting is also in the sale.
- Boden – 15% off new styles with code
- Brooklinen – 25% off sitewide (ends 5/1) — we have and love these sateen sheets
- Evereve – All tops on sale
- Express – $39+ Summer Styles
- Hatch – $15 off one of our favorite alarm clocks with code LETMOMSLEEP15
- J.Crew – Up to 30% off wear-now styles
- J.Crew Factory – Up to 60% off everything, and extra 60% off clearance
- Lands' End – 40% off sitewide – lots of ponte dresses come down under $25, and this packable raincoat in gingham is too cute
- Loft – 60% off florals and 50% off your purchase
- M.M.LaFleur – End of season sale. Try code CORPORETTE15 for 15% off.
- Nordstrom – 1500+ new women's markdowns
- Sephora – Hair deals daily – today 5/1 up to 50% off dae, Verb, PATTERN by Tracee Ellis Ross, and BaBylissPro products
- Talbots – 40% off one item and 30% off your entire purchase
- TOCCIN – Use code CORPORETTE15 for 15% off!
- Vivrelle – Looking to own less stuff but still try trends? Use code CORPORETTE for a free month, and borrow high-end designer clothes and bags!
I really love the look of a stack of necklaces that so many women rock, but can’t seem to pull it off. If there is anyone you follow on SM that might be a good resource, will you tell me who? Would really like to crack this code.
i don’t know off hand but i would look at jewelery sites (like gorjana or bloomingdales) they show necklaces stacked and some places sell them as a set. for what it is worth i too like the loo and felt i was doing it wrong and then i just started wearing it anway,,,,
I just don’t think the look works for everyone. It’s too fussy for my frame and features.
I would invest in a multi-strand clasp to avoid the inevitable tangling
The trick is different weight chains.
Katie Sturino (founder of MegaBabe) wears a great stack of necklaces and when asked how she keeps them untangled, she’s (as usual) very honest: she doesn’t. They often get a bit tangled in the back, but keeping the front untangled is owed to different lengths, weights, and necklace styles (so, not all chains and pendants).
There are necklace accessories that you hook on at the back to keep the chains spaced apart.
I wear a stack of necklaces. My number one tip is to get a Necklace Layering Clasp Womens Jewelry Separators 18K Gold and Silver Magnetic Multiple Necklace Clasp. I just copied the description of mine from Amazon. The magnetic clasp makes it so easy to take on and off. They do get tangled sometimes but the magnetic clasp makes it all so much easier to deal with.
After that, make sure your necklaces are varied chain lengths and varieties. You can also get necklace extenders to help with the lengths. It’s trial and error for me, but fun to play with. My necklaces are a mix that I’ve collected/been gifted over the years. Etsy is a dangerous fun hole to go down for pendants. :)
Why why why show these pants with these shoes?
I hate shoes like this because they always hit wrong. These look to be too small for the feet. Other times, too much shoe shoes past the heel. It’s such a sloppy look.
Even at a designer price point, these look like my grandpa’s “good pants” that my grandma would put out for him to go to church or fancy dinners.
LOL, I know exactly what you’re talking about.
haha YES. The ones that got ironed too many times and now are a bit shiny.
Nah, rise needs to be at least 6” taller for that.
You need to be tall and stick thin (and probably under 40) to pull them off…. I am none of that.
I was asked to opine on/help smooth over a family dispute. I tried to stay out of it but, against my better judgement, was talked into offering suggestions. Predictably, both sides are unhappy with me. Curious if anyone has any other ideas?
Bride 1 and Brother 1 got married a few months ago and are now expecting their first. Bride 2 and Brother 2 got engaged shortly after the wedding and are planning their wedding to be held in India at an unspecified date, hopefully this year. Couple 1 has said they can’t go to India while Bride 1 is pg or has a small child; Brother 1 is unwilling to travel that far while his wife is pg or has a newborn. Bride 1 is 30 and wants more than 5 kids, so she hopes to get pg in quick succession, which basically means they’re never going to India. Bride 2 feels it’s disrespectful to her culture for Couple 1 (white) to refuse to travel to India. The brides are mad at each other.
I suggested that Couple 2 have the real wedding in India, understanding couple 1 won’t be there, and a small local celebration that is consistent with Bride 2’s culture with just family so couple 1 can attend. Bride 2 is mad about this. She wants either a) Brother 1 to come to India regardless of what’s going on with baby or b) for Couple 1 and baby to come to India after the baby is born (and by implication promise to not be pg again at that time). I told her that it’s a losing battle for her to expect someone to plan procreation around her wedding. She accused me of being on Couple 1’s side. I told Couple 1 they should host (or co-host) something, maybe an engagement party, for Couple 2 that is consistent with Bride 2’s culture to show they care and welcome her culture. They said they can’t afford that with the baby coming and accused me of being on Bride 2’s side. Does anyone have any other suggestions I can offer to the couples? I’m about ready to throw in the towel on the whole thing.
Walk away slowly and let the women fight it out.
Brother 1 should go to the wedding in India while Bride 1 stays home, unless the wedding is between 8 months pregnant and say 4 months after baby is born. Then neither member of couple 1 goes. This is the way the cookie crumbles. Also, next time they ask you to opine, SAY NO ;)
This. And culture doesn’t matter. My advice would be the same if the wedding was in Europe or anywhere else that was a long flight out of the country, or possibly even within the US if the travel was significant enough (for example, multiple connections plus driving and not close to a hospital).
+1 if your brother 1 and wife 1 are open to suggestions just to them, not an overall family solution, I’d highly recommend framing it as “we love you, we’re so excited for you, we wish we could be there, we just cannot manage the flight!” and not “we won’t go to India (subtext: because India is so dirty/dangerous/undeveloped)”.
And yeah. You’re not solving this. Some kind of second wedding-adjacent party in the states would be a natural way of handling “we want both of our families to celebrate with us but there’s no single location that works”. If B2 can specify what’s most important about having B1 there – like meeting his new wife’s parents or giving a toast or something, there might be ways he can put forth an effort to meet that need without actually attending. But fundamentally, having family in two countries is hard. And that means making hard choices, and where to have your wedding is one of those hard choices.
8 months feels a little late, given that babies come before 36 weeks not infrequently. I don’t think my husband would have wanted to go to India when I was pregnant and past the point of viability. It’s not like a business trip from Chicago to Philadelphia where you can get home in a few hours if your wife goes into labor. It’s halfway around the world and unless you have many thousands of dollars for a last minute flight, it may be several days or even a week before you can get home. For me it would also depend on how complicated the pregnancy had been, and what kind of support system wife #1 has. My husband had a domestic work trip when I was ~35 weeks and my mom came and stayed with me. Without that support I would have been a lot less comfortable with him going.
And to add: I had a work trip 5 weeks pregnant and started spotting on the way back. All sorts of sh*t can go sideways at any point and they will have the next 40+ years to be “I had to do X alone because Sam went to Kenny’s wedding to keep the peace.”
or because Sam went to Kenny’s wedding because they’re brothers and he wanted to be there for a major life milestone?
“I had to do X alone because my husband’s brother was more important to him than his wife and newborn child.”
Or I’m still mad that Kenny put me in that position. I couldn’t be there for the birth of my child, I couldn’t be there when we miscarried, etc. etc.
And there’s a 50 percent chance that Kenny and his wife might split and that potentially huge life sacrifice means very little in the end Frankly, she’s being a bridezilla, so I’d put the odds even higher.
Immediate family trumps sibling desire. I would never expect the same of my brother. And I don’t know if I could get over my husband putting me second that way.
so should a husband and wife be attached at the hip for the entire pregnancy just in case something happens?
Yeah, if Kenny’s wedding is late in the pregnancy then of course Sam should not go. If its in the first 2 trimesters or when the baby is a few months old, Sam should not skip his brother’s wedding.
I think that a big trip is different than when the wedding is a few hours away in a car. I try to lock in family travel a year ahead of time and always get travel insurance because a kid might become sick, an elder might be in the hospital, someone makes it into something like all-state orchestra where half of us need to change plans, etc., etc. People plan and g-d laughs. I wouldn’t receive it well with people promising never to make your wedding no matter when it is in the next 5-6 years, but I also wouldn’t mourn the absence of those people and would hope I’m living a live where it’s so full of the good people that I even notice the absence of the ones causing friction. This all could have been worded more thoughtfully at the outset IMO.
I don’t know how to mediate, but I’m 100% on couple 1’s side. We are adventurous travelers who have done a LOT of family travel and I would not go to India with a baby or toddler. I guess in Bride 1’s shoes I might send my husband alone, but it would be dependent on our budget – even economy plane tickets to India are not cheap – and vacation time. Suggesting they host a party for Couple 2 because they can’t travel to India for a wedding is bananas to me. That is a huge expense that they shouldn’t have to incur just because they can’t attend a far-flung wedding. When you host your wedding 6,000+ miles from where you live, you accept the risk that many people can’t attend.
+1 million
Couple 1 is not in the wrong. Couple 2 should not have to throw a separate wedding just so Couple 1 can attend – sorry, OP. I think that was kind of a bonkers suggestion. Bride 2 sounds like a real treat tbh.
Right? I get not wanting to throw a party for people Couple 2 likely hates now, but if they can’t afford a party with 1 kid, WTF are they doing having 5+? Just keeping that many kids in shoes and perpetually lost hoodies and coats will be a big budget item. I think they need to just stop interacting and let it cool off (and you walk away slowly, making not sudden movements).
Is this a tr011 comment? Couple 1 can spend their money however they want. And the kind of party that will be expected here costs thousands of dollars.
We obviously don’t know couple 1’s circumstances but if you don’t need childcare and don’t plan to pay for college (which is the case in a lot of large families), each additional kid doesn’t really cost that much. You can buy clothes at Goodwill and pass on hand-me-downs.
Yeah, the instinct here was right: we can’t go to India for the wedding but we want to make sure our brother and his new wife know wr love them, we value them, we want to celebrate them. And yeah, part of doing that is making sure Bride 2 knows you value and appreciate her culture! It doesn’t have to be a big expensive party, but offering *some* kind of way to celebrate seems like it would be a good first step. Like if cost is the issue, schedule a time to celebrate as just the two couples! Ask your parents to come babysit!
Or if really truly, B1 and W1 are planning to be totally completely at capacity with their own kids for the next several years and have no ability to be involved with their families of origin in any capacity… That’s a choice. They can make it but they have to understand it’s going to affect their relationships
(And yes, I do think that once you’re married and have kids, your *primary* obligation is to them. But that’s a different thing than saying “I only *ever* think about them and want absolutely no other important relationships (family or friends!) in my life”)
I think assuming “normal” pregnancy and birth the Brother 1 should absolutely go to his brother’s wedding as long as its not within approx. 6 weeks of the due date (on either side).
This isn’t a destination wedding for funsies, this sounds like Bride 2 who is very connected to the cultural and family ties getting married in her or her parents’ home country.
Hosting an engagement party is not a huge expense – likely much cheaper than traveling for the wedding in India.
But, I think the most reasonable thing is to send Husband 1 solo.
Couple 1 should not host the engagement party. Couple 2 or their parents should.
You do not host your own engagement party…
You technically don’t host your own wedding either, but in this day and age if your parents can’t afford it then you do it yourself.
+2. I get that there are some cross cultural nuances but No is reasonable response to any wedding on the other side of the world. Even once the baby is here I get why Bride 1 doesn’t want to solo parent while Brother 1 travels on his own. This isn’t a weekend trip, it’s a full week at least. And Brother 1’s family will be at the wedding too so there’s a smaller bench of people who can help out Bride 1 while her husband is away.
Is solo parenting my favorite thing ever? No. Is it super hard or unmanageable? Also no. Is it worth solo parenting for a week for a major family event? Of course.
If you can’t solo parent for a week (absent a severely disabled child or something), then I don’t know what to tell you… And if you do have a severely disabled child you likely already have a respite plan and other support established.
It’s not my favorite thing ever but parents do this ALL. THE. TIME. Single parents, spouses of people who travel for work, spouses of people with atypical work situations (first responders, military, shift workers). When family emergencies pop up. For fun reasons both big (family weddings) and small (Girls Weekend/Boys Weekend).
Does Brother 1 *want* to go? I agree if Brother 1 wants to go, the wife can solo parent for a week or two barring a serious medical complication with the pregnancy or birth. But there’s no way my husband would have wanted to be away for over a week when our kids were newborns (and it’s hard to go to India and back on a shorter timeframe). It sounds like maybe this Brother 1 doesn’t either?
Only comment is to let the world know – if you have severely disabled family members of any kind, finding respite care and other support is very difficult and often not possible. Most of us are doing this care alone or with far less help than we need or are legally entitled to.
PSA over. . .
Couple 2 is not obligated to throw an at home reception, but it’s not an unusual approach when the wedding is too far for most to travel to. Asking couple 1 to throw a party to make up for not going to the other side of the world is not reasonable. The couple may be using “can’t afford” to mean “we”re not wasting our money trying to pacify someone unreasonable” rather than “we’ll have to buy hoodies at garage sales.”
I don’t think there’s anything you can do to fix this. I’ve seen both sides of this. My mom still talks about how my dad’s sisters didn’t come to her wedding in CA from the SEUS because they were pregnant. (One was unable to travel, the others were not.) To this point, DH and I delayed TTC so that we would be able to attend a destination wedding for my brother and SIL. When the wedding was delayed because of Covid, the bride rescheduled the event to be within a month of my due date and then seemed surprised that I couldn’t be at every single event with my newborn.
In your situation– Bride 2 can’t empathize with Bride 1 because she doesn’t have kids. Bride 2 is also not going to be happy with anything less than what she wants.
This story illustrates why you should not try to plan childbearing around other people’s weddings!
Expecting anyone to travel half way across the globe is insane. Once you get married your family priority is your spouse above your parents and siblings.
Yes, your spouse/children are your priority, but your family of origin doesn’t disappear! My parents/siblings are the #2 priority in my life after my husband/kids. Before other relationships, work, and personal stuff.
Gosh, people here hate family. Of course your spouse and children are your priority, but that doesn’t mean you cast off your parents or siblings!
No, they just step back from crazy demands.
Attending your own brother’s wedding in his wife’s country of origin (NOT a destination wedding!) is not a crazy demand!
Yes asking someone to spend thousands of dollars and burn most if not all their vacation while expecting is crazy.
This is a good point–brother 1 should not be using scarce PTO on any wedding right now. He is going to need it for time off after the birth, inevitable day care illnesses, etc.
You don’t know that that’s out of their budget and you don’t know their PTO situation.
Demanding that someone go to your wedding halfway around the world is not reasonable. You can be disappointed and hurt if they choose not to attend, because it does say something about how they prioritize you, but you can’t make them go.
It doesn’t matter what Couple 1’s budget and PTO situation is. It’s not reasonable for Couple 2 to demand that the money and time go to them.
Whose to say brother 1 has scarce PTO? Many employers (any worth their salt!) offer parental leave for both parents now. Sick leave, if separate from annual leave, can be used for caring for sick children. This might not impact his annual leave at all. He might have unlimited PTO. People are really jumping to conclusions here to defend Couple 1.
Couple 1 is in the right no matter what, that’s why people are defending them.
It seems here that instead of politely declining with regret, Couple 2 is taking a “refusal” stance. I’d love to go on a trip like this if I had that much work vacation and time and no eldercare responsibilities, but it’s not in the cards. Sad emoji. Doesn’t sound like it was conveyed like that here.
Eh to me it sounds like that was conveyed and Couple 1 has been perfectly polite about not being able to attend. Couple 2 is demanding they go, which is just not reasonable when the wedding is in India and Couple 1 is planning pregnancies and newborns for the next few years.
I do t know who threw the first bad vibe but it is probably mutual now. As Lindsay Buckingham sang, it’s time to go your own way.
If you’re having a destination wedding, you should expect that not everyone will be able to attend.
A wedding where you travel to India from the US is especially challenging. I’ve traveled economy from the east coast to Delhi to visit family and it’s not fun. I couldn’t imagine doing it while pregnant.
calling it a destination wedding if it’s the bride’s home country isn’t totally fair. But yeah, no easy perfect solution for this one!
Agree – this is not a destination wedding and its disingenuous to call it that.
+1 the label “destination wedding” feels a little unfair and like they just picked India because they thought it would be fun, which doesn’t seem to be the case. But you still have to accept that the difficulty of the travel is going to make it impossible for some people to attend. That’s why it’s standard (in my experience) for Indian-American couples to also have a party in the US. And you don’t send someone the bill for that party just because they couldn’t attend your wedding in India!
I imagine many elders can’t make trips like that easily (or make the trip and stay a few months to rest up and visit). Life’s not like that always. I would have expected a near-perfect yield of invites to attendees in my 20s; now I feel like life throws so much at you that I just don’t want a “yes” to turn to a “no” because someone flaked out after I paid for the caterer. Everything else is fair game and it’s not worth getting upset about.
I’m generally anti-destination wedding, but I will scream from the rooftops that a wedding in someone’s home country/city or where their family is based (even if they’re not from there) is NOT a destination wedding even if its inconvenient for other guests or far from where the couple currently lives. Likewise, a wedding where the couple lives, even if most family/friends are not local, is also not a destination wedding.
From what’s written here, Couple 2’s wedding is not destination. A destination wedding is a fun, unrelated location. It’s not reasonable to expect people to travel to those. It is reasonable to think most guests will make an effort to come to a wedding that while potentially inconvenient for them, is at a location where the couple/their family is from.
I don’t think it’s reasonable to expect people to be able to afford the time and expense to travel for a wedding whether it’s in a vacation destination or one of the couple’s hometowns. Most people just don’t have extra time and money to fly all over the world for a wedding. You can ask people to travel, but you can’t expect it. You can be grateful when they show up, but you can’t be angry at them for not attending. None of my grandparents or my husband’s grandparents were able to travel for our wedding. A close friend had to miss it because she was pregnant. We understood.
+1
I agree the label “destination wedding” is not fair in this case, but even if there’s a good reason to have it in India, it’s still halfway around the world and lots of people are not going to be able to attend for various reasons: cost, PTO, health, babies, etc.
fwiw I have quite a few Indian-American friends and have been invited to 3 weddings in India. I attended 1 of them. One of them I was pregnant for and didn’t want to travel to India pregnant (Zika was a big thing at the time, maybe less so now) and the other one we already had a big vacation planned for that year so a $$$ trip to India was just not within the budget in terms of finances and PTO. Nobody was mad. The yield of US guests at all three of those weddings was very low. Yes, a brother should make more effort to attend your wedding than a random friend from college, but you can’t demand someone attend your wedding when it’s in India (or ever, really… but especially not when it’s in India.)
Maybe it doesn’t get the shade that destination weddings do, but it’s still unreasonable to expect people to travel there.
Pretty much all the Indian-American couples I know who got married in India also had a celebration in the US for the (many) people who couldn’t travel to India for various reasons including cost, time off work and family commitments. That’s the obvious solution here. And of course Couple 1 should not have to pay for it. The couple and/or their parents pay.
In Couple 1’s shoes, I’d send my husband to the wedding *barring special circumstances* (some examples, all as of the time of the wedding: (1) a very risky pregnancy; (2) some kind of childcare situation that leaves Bride 1 unable to manage things on her own and the couple doesn’t have the resources (family, financial, whatever) to get her help while the husband is traveling; (3) probably a million other possible circumstances I’m not thinking of). I think it’s important for immediate family to do what they can, including special efforts and some inconvenience, to show up for each others’ weddings. I’ll offer my bona fides here, too: while not as extreme as a wedding in India, my husband did indeed go to his brother’s wedding on the opposite coast of the US less than 4 weeks after our second was born. I’d had a cesarian and was triple feeding; my mom was supposed to come help but couldn’t because my dad had a medical emergency. We were fortunate to have the resources to hire a night nanny for the week he was gone, and I was really lucky to have a friend come visit (to stay in an AirBnB) to keep me company and lend a hand during the day. My husband also took our older child with him; I would not have done this if I’d had both kids on my own. It also felt more achievable because it was our second and I had some idea of what it would be like to have a 3 week old baby and what kind of help I would/might need.
I think it was borrowing trouble for Couple 1 to pre-emptively announce that neither of them will be available to go to India for the next 10+ years; they have no idea what (some of) pregnancy, childbirth, or raising children will be like, and they may feel really differently about who’s available for what after this wedding is actually scheduled. If you have the kind of relationship with your brother where you can give him advice directly and candidly, I’d probably say as much to him.
A lot of boundary crossing behavior couch behind “culture” and “respect.” IME, those two words are freq used together to pressure someone into doing something they don’t really care to do. And give justification to feeling offended.
Take the culture and respect argument out of this. Does this picture still make sense?
All you need to do is validate the reasonable parts of the couples’ limitations/boundaries. It’s very reasonable to not want to do international travel while pregnant or with a baby. It’s very reasonable to want to have everyone included, but it isn’t reasonable to be angry at people who cannot travel (for whatever reason, regardless of whether you personally think their reason is justified). Disappointed, yes. I think that leaving a 4 month pregnant wife so you can travel is reasonable, but different people have different comfort levels and no one gets to to dictate their comfort levels to them. I would not offer any suggestions, just try and be a mirror to help people see where they’re being unreasonable.
go back in time & stay out of it lol. Really though, couple 2 is going to be in for a rude awakening when they realize plenty of other people aren’t able to make that length of trip for a wedding. It’s not on couple 1 to host a separate event for them either!
yes I commented above that I’ve been invited to several Indian weddings (I went to 1) and I think in most cases only 20-30% of the US-based guests who were invited ended up attending. It sounds like this couple is going to be surprised at how many people are not making the trip. A wedding halfway around the world is a big ask in terms of time and money (even if there’s a good reason for it) and many people will decline even if they don’t have pregnancy/newborns.
Agree with this. I think Couple 1 are perfectly within their rights to bow out, although they should just do so quietly and without making any big announcements about the future. And hosting a separate event is asking way way too much of them. And OP should back away slowly from the whole thing.
Forget the brides… how do the brothers feel about this? Does Brother 1 feel strongly about attending his brother’s wedding? Does Brother 2 feel strongly about his brother being at his wedding?
I got married mid 30s and knew I had to start TTC right away… but I put it off for a few months to make sure I could attend and fully participate at my younger brother’s wedding.
You had the right to make that choice but Bride 1 and Brother 1 aren’t obligated to put to TTC on hold. I say this as someone currently going through IVF and knows many couples who struggled with fertility in their early 30s.
But I agree that the only conversation should be between the brothers. Bro 2 is equally responsible for the location of his wedding. He can communicate with Bro 1 if he has a problem with them missing the wedding. And Bro 1 can handle the fallout instead of putting his wife in the middle.
You should tell them that they are both annoying you and that you aren’t judge Judy and mind your business.
I kind of like this take.
Brother 2 should run like the wind. Characterizing Brother 1 and Bride 1’s very reasonable decision not to attend as rejecting her culture is just cray cray. Way to weaponize a decision that most likely makes the most sense for their particular situation. As others have pointed out, expecting two people to travel halfway around the world to your wedding is a lot. You can be hurt that they choose not to, but saying they are “rejecting my culture” means she is going to be playing that tune forever. Set your boundaries now, and be prepared to stick with them. You don’t get to guilt people into doing things and she sounds like a master.
This was my reaction. What else is she going to demand? That they move to India when they have kids?
Yes. “Rejecting her culture” would be more like refusing to attend a local wedding simply because it was Indian-style and not American-style.
Agreed
Bride 2 is being disrespectful to Couple 1 as human beings, as well as to their culture.
What is Couple 1’s culture here?
The white American culture of prioritizing the spouse and children over extended family.
This is a very ugly statement and assumption. A brother is not extended family.
I would suggest that everyone involve grow the eff up and get over their egos.
Amen.
Send each bride a book about boundaries. Bride 2 is wrong for wanting to change other people’s boundaries. “I don’t want to do international travel while I’m pregnant/my wife is pregnant” is reasonable.
To the extent that Bride 1 wants the wedding to change location or time, she’s wrong.
They both have valid reasons and just need to understand that things don’t always work out.
Pregnant couple both stay home. End of story.
Couple isnt’ even pregnant yet. They might not be for a while. Whose to say?
Yes, they are.
I wouldn’t expect everyone to be able to come across the world for my wedding (though I would, barring extreme circumstances, expect that from my immediate family). But, I also think it’s wild (and rude, and possibly racist) to declare that there’s no way you’ll be able to travel to India for the next decade because of your family plans (which, may or may not pan out the way you expect).
I also think that it’s totally acceptable to split up – have mom and baby stay home and dad go to his brother’s wedding.
+1! Both couples are in the wrong, here, and it sounds like maybe there has been some friction between the two pairs for a while leading up to this?
If you care enough about family to plan to have five children, I would think you would care enough about family to make every effort to attend your brother’s wedding. And by the same token, if your family is spread between countries, sometimes it just isn’t possible to get everyone together.
My husband and I are from two different countries and not everyone was able to attend our wedding (and not least because a war broke out and canceled some flights/plans at the last minute!). We were sad and hurt and frustrated by it, but we also understand that this is the reality of our situation, and that we are lucky to live in a time when we have the option of getting any of us together, at all. For many many years migration meant never returning to your home country or never seeing your family again, or only doing it once in 30 years. We shouldn’t take it for granted, and shouldn’t take it as a given, either.
+1 to your comment about caring enough about family to have a large family, but not to make the effort to attend your brother’s wedding. I obviously get that your spouse and children become your family priority, but if you’re family-oriented you don’t just ignore your families of origin. And, if you do, note that that’s what you’ve modeled to your kids and don’t expect to be any sort of priority in their lives as adults.
+1.
Caveat: I know lots of white people have 5+ kids and are not at all racist, Christian nationalist, or trad wives. But, in this day and age (and this economy), most people do not have 5+ kids and certainly there’s overlap in the Venn diagram of 5+ kids and bigoted in one way or antother.
With both husband and wife in Couple 1 reusing to travel to India (assuming a non-white, non-Christian Bride 2) just might be a dog whistle and maybe they are being disrespectful to her culture and/or making racist or otherwise unkind assumptions about India.
This is a wild take. It’s just as likely that Bride 2 is racist as that Bride 1 is.
Completely agree. If we are at the point where refusing to go to a particular country means automatic racist label, then just wow.
I really, really wonder if Couple 1 would have this same “we can’t possibly go there for an entire decade” approach if it was somewhere else though…
What on earth.
I admit this is I’m sure cultural/geographic. But I do agree with this… the only people I know having more than 2-3 kids are Fox News types. I’m in a city in the northeast. I know our cultural norms aren’t the same as elsewhere in the country…
Everyone I know who has more than 3 kids is actually highly educated and wealthy and well-traveled. Surgeons, biglaw, etc. A big family is often about conspicuous consumption, so I don’t necessarily assume Fox News/Quiverfull.
If Couple 1 actually were odious racists, why on earth would Couple 2 want them at their wedding causing trouble?
Ugh. There is no point to jumping to racism here. And let’s be clear, they don’t actually have 5 kids. Lots of people envision big families before reality hits.
I think this is quite a reach. I’m about as far from a tradwife as you can get (I have a PhD and only one kid, and earn more money than my husband) and I’ve been to and loved India as a tourist, but I would not go to India while pregnant or with a young kid. Most of the comments in support of couple 1 declining the invite are focused on the time and cost involved in getting to this wedding, which would also be true if the wedding was held in a different faraway place like Japan or Australia. And India IS a developing country, and there are definitely added challenges to travel in developing countries with little kids. It’s not racist to point that out, it’s factual.
Why is it okay for Bride 2 to demand that her husband’s family travel from the US to India, and not to demand that her family travel from India to the US?
Traditionally weddings are held where the bride is from. This has been changing, but this is the traditional approach.
Also, culturally Indian weddings are a BIG. DEAL. And you “have” to invite hundreds of people. And it’s a huge thing for her family and their social circles. Not having a big Indian wedding in India would be a non-starter for many Indians of means. That, of course, doesn’t preclude a second American wedding. Many Indian-American couples do both. IME though, immediate family (parents and siblings) of the bridge and groom attend both weddings while extended family and friends attend the wedding that’s in their country.
The groom is American, though. His siblings didn’t opt in to any of this and aren’t obligated to participate.
While technically correct, it’s a pretty sh!tty take to have if you otherwise like your brother. Something can be “correct” without being “right”.
I agree with this. Though I also agree that someone not being comfortable traveling to India while pregnant or not pregnant doesn’t necessarily imply that they are racist. Some people are just very uncomfortable traveling to far away places
“An invitation is not a summons.” Repeat, to all parties.
It’s true that you can’t “make” people go to stuff you invite them to, but it’s also true that declining invitations often does (reasonably) have impacts on a relationship. I am free to skip important family events, or to turn down 6 invites in a row from a friend without proposing an alternative get together, but I can’t reasonably expect that to have no impact on our relationship. It sounds like B1 is hoping to not go, but also have it have no impact on his relationship with his brother and sister-in-law
THIS! Of course you never have to go to something, but there’s an expected give and take required to make relationships of all sorts work.
I always say, you’re free to make whatever choices you want, but you’re not free from the consequences of those choices.
B2 is also free to invite anyone she wishes, but that doesn’t mean Bad Bunny is beholden to hosting her ceremony at centerfield.
Bride 1 is likely in for a rude awakening. Having 5+ kids back to back to back is rough on your body, your sanity, your marriage, and your finances. If she wants 6 kids (“wants more than 5 kids”), she’s likely starting too late – I really don’t think a body can safely sustain 6 pregnancies and births in approx 1 decade. Shutting out family (both Couple 2 and the OP) will make something that’s incredibly difficult even more difficult.
Life is full of curve balls – saying she can’t go to India for the next decade because of pregnancy is tempting fate IMO. I hope she doesn’t have any fertility issues, but that’s decently uncommon.
The only thing Couple 1 is doing wrong is to pre-emptively state that they can never go to India. Even if they don’t ever intend to go, all they need to say now is that they can’t go this time.
They didn’t state that! The couple said they won’t travel to India while pregnant or with a baby, which is reasonable. Based on the number of kids they want OP surmised the couple won’t be going to India for a decade.
That’s how I read it too. It’s unreasonable to declare with certainty “we can’t attend a wedding in India at any point in the next decade.” It is very reasonable to say “we’re not comfortable attending a wedding in India if Wife 1 is pregnant or we have a newborn, and given that we want several children close together, we can’t really schedule our family planning around your wedding.” In fact if they didn’t give couple 2 a head’s up in advance about not going while pregnant/postpartum, people would jump on them for that.
From my read, the wedding is not yet scheduled and Bride 1 is not yet pregnant. Why don’t both brides wait for timelines to be clarified before starting drama? It might take Bride 1 a while to conceive and she and her husband can both go!
Yeah good grief I guess I missed those details. Talk about borrowing trouble…
It says Bride 1 is now expecting her first. She is currently pregnant and, depending on the scheduling of the wedding, will likely have a newborn and “might” be attempting PG #2.
Couple 1 IS expecting a baby.
Who is actually blood-related here? The two brothers? So their wives don’t like each other? I have been to India and would never in a million years travel there while pregnant or with my small child. I mean assuming all goes fine with the birth/delivery, Bride 1 could wait 2-3 months after the birth of the first to start trying again (doctors generally recommend waiting a bit anyway) and brother 1 could go to India then for a wedding, on as short a trip as possible.
Even 2-3 months is really, really soon to start trying again! I know she’ll have to have kids back to back, but they recommend having kids at least 2 years apart for maternal health!
I think there’s quite a bit of cultural mismatch here. Obviously this doesn’t ring true to every family, but painting with a broad brush: Indian families are often large, close knit, and traditional – skipping a close relative’s wedding just wouldn’t happen. Many families expect a relatively high level of parental deference from their adult children. Bride 2 might have very little say over when and where her wedding is and what it looks like.
White families run the gamut: those who were never close or those who “leave and cleave” when they get married all the way to extremely tight knit.
Throw in the towel. This sort of crap isn’t going to end when the weddings are completed. It’s going to be over kids’ birthday parties, college graduations, anniversary trips, etc., etc.
Related: I’m a random white lady and you wouldn’t have to ask me twice to travel to India for a wedding! That sounds super fun, but then again I did trips (with and without kids) when my kids were small and I do not regret it one bit.
This
.Both brothers have made choices – totally reasonable ones – that are going to have major consequences for your family of origin going forward. There is no way there is going to be consistent attendance at everyone’s events going forward. A couple planning five or six close-in-age children is going to be very limited on what they can do over a long horizon. A couple with parents in India will likely have long periods devoted to visiting or hosting those parents and maybe other family. You all just need to get used to it. Maybe schedule a holiday Zoom or two that you observe religiously and the rest is catch as catch can.
Both couples/brides are out of line here. I very much understand Bride 2’s desire to get married in her home country and have her husband’s immediate family attend. Of course you cannot force someone to attend a wedding, and this is a bigger ask than other weddings due to distance and cost, but this is the groom’s brother. If the brothers are at all close, I do believe he should make the effort to attend, even if its inconvenient. However, the Bride 2’s inflexibility to compromise is not helping the situation. Many, many couples with family in 2 countries plan 2 wedding celebrations to ensure everyone can attend.
Couple 1 should not preemptively announce that there’s no way they’ll ever be able to make it to India for the wedding. That’s rude and hurtful. Of course your wife/children are your new priority, but that doesn’t mean you cast your brother aside. This couple is also being inflexible – many couples “divide and conquer” to attend family events (even far away ones) and they should consider (depending on timing) Brother 1 attending the wedding solo.
The wedding is not yet scheduled and Couple 1 is not yet pregnant. There are too many unknowns now to assume anything.
Presumably things have been said/done in the past to make Bride 2 feel like her culture is not valued. If not, that’s a pretty out of left field take. They might be microaggressions that the white members of the family haven’t clocked, but have made Bride 2 uncomfortable.
A wedding is not a summons. Couple 1 should consider looking for a way to celebrate the couple at their home location. Maybe look into figuring out if someone could set up a quick live video call from the reception or a wedding celebration.
Have you asked Brother 2 if he is sure this is the right woman for him?
Did couple 2 go all out for couple 1’s wedding? If so, I get the hurt that couple 1 now won’t entertain going at all to couple 2’s.
THIS
As a large thigh person I like these. They would need to be longer though, or they would read as stumpy.
I have a very petite, thin colleague who rocks barrel leg pants with high block-heeled booties and looks so very chic doing it. On me, this look gives Charles Dickens extra who outgrew my trousers and wants some more porridge.
Interesting. i too am a large thigh person and i generally find anything that narrows a the bottom to be less flattering.
I am a thick thigh gym girl and the right barrel pants look like straight leg or wide leg pants on me – the barrel keeps them uniformly baggy. I was very anti barrel pants until a friend encouraged me to try them on. Now these particular pants, I’m doubtful.
I like these, which are in a fluid fabric, for the same reason. I would never do the stiff jeans version.
RANT: There are lay offs happening at my org, the executive who is responsible is too chicken sh!t to face us in the boardroom so he is in his office down the hall remoting into the meeting.
Nooo. So bad!!
Idk, bitches be crazy. I’d do the same.
Then you should not be in leadership
This. although I actually prefer to deliver news like this in person, oddly enough. Something about being able to better read the body language of the people I’m talking to. this is also why I hate virtual meetings without cameras, something about just having to talk without being able to pick up nonverbals is very uncomfortable for me.
I hate camera meetings so bad. People are always looking off screen and obviously ignoring the call then admitting to mutitasking when called on. Or they’re paying attention and rubbing their foreheads at anything less than perfectly positive like they wish you’d just go away. I think people are so much better at filtering their speech than their body language. I really would rather pretend that I’m being listened to so I can get on with my day instead of figuring out how to soften blows or make the financials more “engaging”.
That said, when had to do lay offs I did it in person to not be a coward.
looking for inspo on what to make for an upcoming friend trip dinner (we’re all taking turns cooking). I’m leaning towards pasta (along with salad, etc.), any favorite or fun recipes to suggest?
No picky eaters, just the following dietary restrictions: no red meat, peanut allergy, minimal dairy (eg topped with parm is fine but not a cream-based sauce).
the place we’re staying has a decent kitchen, I’m a good cook, just looking for ideas!
https://www.bonappetit.com/story/caramelized-leek-tart?srsltid=AfmBOoo4X0d_krPUOC_lkJId4q4Ne7pliT_RuCJO1Yr7AGiw_EHyGGFf
Pair with a substantial salad with roasted sweet potatoes, sliced citrus, arugula, and shaved fennel, topped with pepitas and a honey vinaigrette. I just had a similar meal last weekend and it was divine.
For things like this, I have a few rules for the menu once we’ve accounted for dietary restrictions and preferences:
– something that won’t take a lot of prep time (prioritize hanging with your friends!)
– something that doesn’t use a ton of ingredients and uses up whatever I need to buy to make it
– something that feels a little fancy
For pasta, I’d do linguine & clams (if you can get fresh clams where you’ll be) because it checks all the boxes except you’ll have leftover red pepper flakes. For not-pasta, I’d probably do something with chicken thighs, like Alison Roman’s chicken with crushed olives or sheet pan chicken roasted with cabbage (lots of recipes around, but look for one with chicken parts instead of a whole chicken). Then make a nice salad and cut up some good bread and you’re set.
If it is in the early spring, I like to add blanched fresh peas, asparagus, and fava or garbanzo beans to pasta. I usually use alfredo but a pesto would work. If you up the ratio of vegetables, you could skip the salad and add some fish or shrimp.
also enjoy tortellini in brodo, which is easy.
Sausage and pepper pasta or ground sausage and brocolli rabe pasta are usually my go-to’s on vacation – inexpensive, healthy amount of veggies, and easy to do with limited vacation house kitchen supplies.
Risotto with asparagus and peas. Arugula salad with Meyer lemon vinaigrette. Biscotti and Vin Santo.
how often do you clean your work desk, both in terms of organizing and cleaning with clorox wipes? does anyone have a good ritual for it to share?
I wipe it down on Fridays (full time in office).
I organize daily, dust with my little microfiber floof as needed. If I spill something I will clean it with a damp paper towel but I never clorox or use anything other than water to wipe it down.
Meant to add: this is basically the same routine I use for cleaning my house. I organize and dry dust hard surfaces as needed. If they are dirty I clean them with water, maybe a little dish soap if needed to remove grease. Windows and mirrors get glass cleaner, plumbing fixtures get CLR to remove hard water deposits. I don’t use bleach to clean, it’s not suited for general cleaning and if the goal is to sanitize in advance of performing surgery there are better solutions.
I used to get lots of filing done and clearing out random papers when I would be required to join some call or presentation that didn’t need me on camera or be an active participant.
Now I’m hotdesking so all the random papers have turned into open tabs…
I wipe down desk, chair, keyboard and mouse with a Clorox wipe at the end of every day (I keep lots of the little travel.paxks.in a drawer) and I wipe down my screens any time I use a lens wipe on my glasses, which is about daily.
I organize when I’m done with a project, so maybe monthly? Ideally it would be more frequent but I only have so much brain space and I need my papers visible so I will remember to work on them :)
I rarely Clorox my desk/office, that just isn’t a priority for me. I’m the only one who uses it so I don’t feel the need to sanitize anything.
I’m in the office 5x a week, but we have to hotel desks. Yes it sucks! So, I clorox every day and I also don’t have any desk storage or anything to organize.
Yesterday I reached the comclusion quiet quitting my marriage is my best option at this time. Any advice and comments are welcome. Of course today my husband is all sweet and worried about me, after shouting at me yesterday. Interested in knowing how to keep my resolution and not get sucked again into the endless fight-apology cycle. Should I buy a ring to remind me to just not engage? Invent some daily ritual?
Therapy therapy therapy.
I have a therapist. My husband won’t see a therapist and, really, I am not going to ask him to go see one at this point.
I am so sorry. First, I hope folks on here will engage with your actual question and not offer their two cents on quiet quitting the marriage. (Obviously, can’t control that.)
Second, my only advice is to start by prioritizing yourself. I don’t know if you have kids, but if you do, once they’re out the door, leave and go to something (a yoga class, the gym, the library, wherever). As much as you can, don’t be physicallyl in the spaces where the fight-apology dynamic happens; that might mean being out of the house more.
Good luck. I’m sorry you’re in this position at the moment.
I don’t have useful advice, but sending you hugs!
Pick whichever of the following suits your personality best: meditation; hiking; long distance steady state running; journaling; prayer/quiet time. You need time alone in your head in order to develop the grace and patience to manage the moments where you are not alone and your head is full of other people’s anger.
This is such excellent advice — you need time alone and some quiet so that your head can empty a bit of other people’s anger. Then you can start to pay attention to your own thoughts and feelings and experiences. See if you can find time alone each day (the list above is great — I’d add walking and coffeeshop/library time).
I hope you’ll update. This internet stranger is rooting for you.
A scheduled commitment is good for getting you away from home and away from the conflict. So a yoga class or dance class, a running club, a book club, a volunteer organization all work. If I decide to take a walk alone every day, I can get pulled off track because it’s a commitment only to myself. But if there’s a group and schedule involved, it’s easier to prioritize. Or you could get a puppy who needs long walks (and bonus cuddles!)
Sending you sympathy and hugs.
All of those involve other people’s thoughts or bodies being in your space, though. These ideas are all truly wonderful, because community is important, but you also need dedicated time truly alone with your thoughts.
I would add something ever so slightly risky to your list, like surfing or mountain biking. You never get into a better flow state than when you’re in a sport where not paying attention will put you on the ground. It clears the mind like no other.
I think any challenging pursuit, whether or not it’s actually dangerous, will have this effect. An advanced adult ballet class will get me out of my head. Running won’t because it’s too easy to think about other things. Yoga is iffy because of all the extended time holding positions.
Ha, I’m the person who said running, and my thought in response was “you’re not running long enough, then.” Ballet would just have me comparing my form to the person next to me! So funny how different we all are in what works best, but how universally we prize that flow state that comes with something challenging but doable with focus.
I have to imagine playing an instrument does the same thing for people who are good at it!
This is a great suggestion. I’d suggest also that something not so risky but that requires uninterrupted, intense concentration, such as rowing (in a shell, on the water, not on a machine).
pottery on the wheel also requires proper concentration but the risk is just an ugly lump of clay, rather than pain (although you can get chafing from sucking at wheel throwing).
Taking up tae kwon do or another martial art could also work well for this.
I think this is a wonderful addition to the list, but definitely is personality dependent! It would not be a great fit for me as a person who runs a lot of slow miles, but running a lot of slow miles would not be a great fit for my husband who has done multiple week long meditation retreats!
I wouldn’t recommend running slow miles for this unless it’s on a narrow mountain trail or something. The whole point is it needs to be something that absolutely requires focus.
I am literally the person who wrote the list everyone is replying to, and long slow miles absolutely do this for me. I run a LOT, though. I think the back half of a 2 mile run and the back half of a 10 mile run are totally different experiences.
I’m doing the same. I read Mel Robbins Let Them two weeks ago- many parts I skimmed because they didn’t apply – and have been successfully practicing it. I also started therapy to help me navigate this process and create my plan for 2 years from now when I plan to file papers.
Recommend the book Who deserves your love by KC Davis. She has advice and strategies for situations where you for whatever reason cannot drop a relationship.
A shouting-sweet cycle does sound exhausting at best (abusive and dangerous at worst), and it’s okay to actually quit instead of quiet quitting, too, if that should seem better later on.
Do you have room to move into separate bedrooms? I moved into the guest room near the end of my marriage and it was nice to have a place to go and be by myself.
And yes, take classes and hang out with your friends.
Also second the notion that actually quit-quitting is an option, too. Take this time to get your money and your head in order and then go.
Quiet quitting might be harder on you than just … quitting. If there is a fight-apology cycle happening, it may not even be possible. I trust that you’ve thought about it and have your reasons for staying for now, but I think the only way this works is if you can spend as little time with him as possible.
I think you may be unfortunately right
Yeah as a recently divorced person… quiet quitting a marriage is quitting the whole relationship. I’m sorry it sucks and I’m not a regular so I don’t know why you can’t address this with your current spouse. But if your goal is for the marriage to end, end it. If your goal is for the marriage to change, change it. If the goal is for you to exist and be unhappy, well then – quiet quitting may be for you. Good luck and again, I’m sorry it sucks
Yeah I do not understand quiet quitting at all in this context.
Thank you all for your kind and wise comments, and for the hugs of course. Lots of food for thought! This community is often just the best :)
One of the great things about allowing yourself to emotionally check out of the marriage is that you don’t have to be on the emotional roller coaster anymore. Be polite and kind. Get ish done that needs doing. But when he’s shouting, disengage. When he swings the other way and is falsely sweet, disengage. Focus on being constructive; if it isn’t constructive then it doesn’t get your energy.
Has anyone been able to successfully reduce the appearance of cellulite with any non-invasive tools or treatments? I am slender and have spent over a year lifting heavy weights and seeing great muscle gains. But, my cellulite and dimples still show around my thighs/buttocks and it is very obvious in a swimsuit.
I think the caffeine creams help some, temporarily.
This isn’t what you asked but honestly? Retraining my eye to realize that cellulite and dimples are normal, even on very buff people. It’s still there but I don’t fixate on it like I once did.
You can’t exercise cellulite away – it’s how your cells are formed. There’s a “mesh net” in your skin and some people have a fine net, so that nothing pokes through, and others have a coarser net, so that dimples do form. Your net is hereditary and can’t be changed. That’s why the only things that work are caffeine creams that shrink the dimples that push through.
Self tanner can be useful depending on your skin tone!
unfortunately, no. I am also lifelong slender and even when I was a teenage athlete and very thin I had very visible cellulite. Some of us genetically lose in this arena, as with so many aspects of appearance. I haven’t owned a swimsuit since my early 20s. It’s my hang-up, and I dress to conceal it.
I do think that self tanner is better than nothing, but not really.
Planning a trip from Vancouver to Banff via the train in early Fall. Any hotel recommendations for either end? Throw in any other advice or recommendations for this area as well!
You are going to have the best time! We stayed in the Fairmont Pacific Rim in Vancouver and it was FABULOUS. Also loved the Fairmont in Banff but you have to be careful about what room you get in the older Fairmonts — some are great and some are… less so.
Seconding Fairmont Pacific Rim and Banff (with a shoutout to Fairmont Lake Louise as well). Would add in that the Gold floor (their concierge level) is worth it at both hotels and makes everything super smooth.
Depending on when in early fall you will be in Banff, you could catch the larches if you’re into hiking. Check on weather when you’re actually going to be there because a few weeks make a huge difference in early fall, but staying at Moraine Lake (a splurge, but IMO worth it) is *chef’s kiss.*
Baker Creek cabins on Bow River Pkwy inside Banff – perfection if you like more rustic/lodgy than Fairmont-fancy.
Out of curiosity if you’re with Vanguard can you get any of the online trackers to sync? Mint always did it, but Simplifi has problems — wondering if Monarch or one of the others is better. Most of my holdings are at Vanguard. TIA!
Monarch was terrible for me in terms of syncing. Simplifi works OK, but I often have to reconnect. And there was that time a few weeks ago when everything was broken and Simplifi told me my net worth was $9M. (That was nice, lol.)
My Vanguard accounts sync with Monarch (I have more issues with TIAA) without issue.
I am desperate for a decent pillow. I never have issues when I travel (which is with some frequency!) but cannot figure out the right pillows for my house. I want two identical ones that are larger than full size. Not lumpy. Not firm but not shapeless. Any recs???
Might not be heIlpful, but I’m in love with my Mellow pillow, but my dh hates it. I’m a back sleeper, or sometimes a side sleeper, dh is a side sleeper. It’s not larger than full size however.
Many hotels (Marriott Bonvey brands for instance) also market their bedding. Find the one you like best in your travels, and buy it. Or at the very least, look at the label and see if it’s described as firm, medium, what ever, and try to source something similar.
The Company Store has a whole pillow menu that explains which pillow is the right choice for your sleeping position. I’ve been pleased with the ones I’ve bought from them.
I bought my pillows online from some hotel (I forget which, maybe Sheraton?) after I really liked them during my stay. A lot of hotels now sell their bedding and even mattresses to guests because it’s a common request. Next time you stay at a hotel where you like their pillows, ask where they got them!
I love my firm down pillows (they aren’t “firm” in the sense of being un-soft, just filled nicely).
We also have one of those chopped foam pillows in our guest bedroom (it’s a no-name brand from our local supermarket’s bedding aisle). I’ve slept on it a couple of times and found it more comfortable than I would have guessed, although it feels really heavy compared to my down one.
Apologies if you already did this, but for me it was recognizing my sleeping position and pattern. Now I have a tall firm pillow for sleeping on my side, with a flat pillow stabilizing my knees. At some point in the night, I flop on my stomach and switch to the flat pillow, throwing the big pillow on the floor. I credit this plus stretching and magnesium supplements with fixing my sciatica for the last three years.
Lagoon Otter pillow for side/back sleepers.
I kept buying pillows and hating them, and I finally found my holy grail, which is the Valetto down pillow from Matouk. When I say I have been fully obsessed with my pillow for a whole year, I’m not exaggerating. I have the “soft” version which I was afraid would be too soft, but it’s more like sleeping on a cloud. You sink into it without bottoming out, and can squish it/fold it to make it firmer. The down never gets flat, even after cramming it in suitcases. It’s so lightweight it feels like nothing, but it’s still supportive. I never wake up with neck pain anymore.
The only downside is that it’s more than $400 full price (roughly 4x the amount I’d spent on a single pillow before), but I was able to stack Bloomingdale’s coupons and paid just under $200.