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Frugal Friday’s Workwear Report: Fleece-Lined High-Waisted Leggings

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I don’t know how I’ve made it this far in life without fleece-lined leggings. I live in the Northeast, where winter starts in October and runs through early May, so when I bought these on a whim a few weeks ago, they were a welcome addition to my wardrobe. (True story: It snowed on the day of my high school prom. I refused to wear a coat over my strapless gown. Teenagers are fun.)

I’ve been wearing these with tunic tops on the weekends. I really like the pocket for stashing my phone when I’m out for walks, as well as the high waist, which hasn’t done the weird rollover thing that some of my leggings do. In terms of sizing, I went by the waist size on the size chart and found that the corresponding size fit perfectly.

The leggings are $30.99 at Amazon and come in 21 color/style combinations in sizes XS–3X. Fleece-Lined High-Waisted Leggings

(ICYMI, check out our roundup of the best leggings.)

Sales of note for 2/7/25:

  • Nordstrom – Winter Sale, up to 60% off! 7850 new markdowns for women
  • Ann Taylor – Extra 25% off your $175+ purchase — and $30 of full-price pants and denim
  • Banana Republic Factory – Up to 50% off everything + extra 15% off
  • Boden – 15% off new season styles
  • Eloquii – 60% off 100s of styles
  • J.Crew – Extra 50% off all sale styles
  • J.Crew Factory – 40% off everything including new arrivals + extra 20% off $125+
  • Rothy's – Final Few: Up to 40% off last-chance styles
  • Spanx – Lots of workwear on sale, some up to 70% off
  • Talbots – 40% off one item + free shipping on $150+

Sales of note for 2/7/25:

  • Nordstrom – Winter Sale, up to 60% off! 7850 new markdowns for women
  • Ann Taylor – Extra 25% off your $175+ purchase — and $30 of full-price pants and denim
  • Banana Republic Factory – Up to 50% off everything + extra 15% off
  • Boden – 15% off new season styles
  • Eloquii – 60% off 100s of styles
  • J.Crew – Extra 50% off all sale styles
  • J.Crew Factory – 40% off everything including new arrivals + extra 20% off $125+
  • Rothy's – Final Few: Up to 40% off last-chance styles
  • Spanx – Lots of workwear on sale, some up to 70% off
  • Talbots – 40% off one item + free shipping on $150+

And some of our latest threadjacks here at Corporette (reader questions and commentary) — see more here!

Some of our latest threadjacks include:

355 Comments

  1. Any recs for cookie, treats, or similar delivery? No particular parameters, just something good and not too spendy (<$50?). Recipient is in Houston TX if that matters.

      2. Just sent some to a friend today! They are also currently offering ones to bake at home–just as amazing. I’m sending ones for now and ones for later. :)

    3. I sent 2 Harry and David boxes – each was $48 and came with pears, moose munch and other treats. They were a big hit! We also just received a delivery from there including a quiche, English muffins and jam – and looks so yummy!

    5. If you want to do something other than cookies, Three Brothers Bakery will deliver to a lot of Houston and gives you the option of pies, cakes and other holiday treats. Goode Company pies are also popular around the holidays and not being in the office, I miss eating them whenever they pop up in the breakroom. There are lots of other bakery options for delivery in Houston, but they are mostly location specific (e.g., within so many miles of that bakery).

    1. The main reason I like these cookies is because they have so few ingredients: Pumpkin Chocolate Chip Cookies from The Detoxinista

      just sub the almond butter for peanut butter.

    2. Yes, the peanut butter cookie recipe from Cook’s Illustrated/America’s Test Kitchen. If you can’t access it (I know they put most stuff behind a paywall), it looks like the same recipe is on food.com as “Big, super-nutty peanut butter cookies”

      1. These are great and my favorite, although I didn’t get the recipe from WholeFoods and I use a full cup of sugar.

  3. Posted this late yesterday but any tips for end of year reviews that use those lovely 5 point scales?
    I am working on my self-review now, and I feel like I may be selling myself a bit short though I realize there’s always room for improvement.
    I got a bit burned last year when some of my self-scores did not align with my manager’s (he scored me slightly worse, though understandably so after discussion), and I don’t want to overinflate myself again.
    I accomplished a lot this year and highlighted it in the free response section, but hate the part with the 5 point scale for various vague attributes.

    2. Refer to last year’s and give yourself either the same or one better. Self reviews are not the place to take about what you need to improve. Focus on what you did improve and what you are looking forward to continuing to work on in 2021.

    3. Do not worry about overinflating your score – I don’t understand how it would burn you since it’s not like there’s a penalty, right? If your manager is going around scoring a lot of people he’s more likely to rate people higher who push to be higher since it’s the path of least resistance.

    4. So, at some point my colleagues and I decided there was absolutely no benefit to scoring ourselves below a 5. And yes, it felt weird, but for the most point it worked.

      1. Yes this. It feels weird every year, but there’s no point in scoring yourself lower. Unless you’re on a documented performance plan, give yourself the highest score. I guarantee most of your colleagues are doing it, so it only hurts yourself to “grade tough”.

        1. Agree. And ymmv, but I’ve been in positions where my supervisor had to advocate for my promotion based on past performance. It would have been problematic if management could have said “well, her OWN evaluation only thought she was doing about average in that area last year.”

      2. Be careful about this, though. A person at my firm who scores themselves all 5s would be seen as absolutely tone deaf. If 3 is meets expectations, a 4 is exceeds expectations, and a 5 is significantly exceeds expectations, most people are going to land between a 3 and a 4 after averaging their scores. If I have 4-5 goals I’m scoring myself against, I usually give myself a 4 or 4.5 for the one or two goals I really knocked out of the park, a 3.5 for the goals I met, and a 3 if I didn’t really achieve what I should have but made an effort. I never score myself below a 3 for anything. We can score ourselves in .5 point increments.

        Having been in a position recently to see scores for a few hundred people, this is how it works out across the board. Maybe 20-30% of people have averages above 4, and they are generally the top performing people.

        And OP, when you say slightly worse, I wouldn’t worry about that. If he scored you the next point value lower on a few things, you’re not really off by much.

      3. As a supervisor I disagree. There is absolutely benefit in having self-awareness recognizing where your work needs to grow. Of course, this assumes a semi-functional work environment or better so YMMV.

  4. I was way late to the party yesterday but want to send hugs to OP and assurances that she and DH are not alone in this.
    Extended family on both sides continue to gather, have weddings and showers and Thanksgivings etc. After attending one in-person gathering over the summer, where it was blatantly obvious that the family is just choosing to do what they do, we swore off all further in-person interactions. This involved DH RSVP’ing regrets for several large events (things like weddings). Which later proved to be superspreader events. We did not say “I told you so” or anything like that. Now we are clearly being frozen out and we are half super, super sad (this was our favorite part of the family) and half super-over-it (thank you for showing us who you are).
    I do think DH may have been slightly over-the-top in his explanations (it’s his side, I let him deal with the tough stuff), which probably didn’t help. He acknowledges some anxiety issues (bc 2020) and is getting them in check, but is very, very reluctant to put himself out there by reaching out and apologizing, etc.
    We offered to get together for Christmas with my super-sad mom (“We miss you!”) – I said that both households would need to isolate for 10 days or so and her immediate response was “Well, we can’t do that, not at this time of year.” I guess you don’t actually miss us very much, then. Thanks.
    So the holidays were going to kinda-suck this year anyway (b/c COVID) but now they really suck emotionally, b/c I keep thinking that “What if we NEVER EVER get to have those family holiday traditional get-togethers again?” It feels like my kids (and DH and I) just lost a big piece of our local village.

    1. I’m the OP, and I am so sorry you’re facing this, too. It’s horrifying that one of those events ended up being a superspreader. :( I’m with you; this is emotionally rough. Like you, I’ve been letting DH take the lead because it’s his family. But I am torn between never wanting to see these people again and wondering, “Is this it, especially now that FIL is gone?” Surprisingly, my MIL is not as upset about the Christmas invite as we are. She has a million excuses for the aunt who is organizing — she’s lonely, she’s depressed, she just can’t handle being alone for the holidays. Ugh. So are the rest of us! I’m so sick of this person being coddled in the name of being sensitive and having a loving heart. I see her as emotionally manipulative, but I have not said that out loud.

      Anyway, sorry, that hit a nerve and I’m ranting again!

      Hugs to anyone who is facing family strife this year. We need a ‘rette support group. Also, OP, I don’t think your DH has anything to apologize for. He wasn’t rude, and they are the ones who are freezing him out.

      1. Nope, he definitely shouldn’t apologize. It just gives more ammo to emotionally abusive manipulators. I’m so sorry you’re both dealing with this.

      3. Adding to the “no apology” chorus. You are doing the right thing, it’s really hard, and I’m sorry you’re going through it.

    3. In my world, we talk a lot about teens guilting / emotionally pressuring people to do something dangerous (drugs) or unwanted (s*xting and worse). And we say how wrong it is to pressure a person, to recognize it, and to resist it. An invitation is for the other person’s will alone to decide. Putting pressure or manipulation or guilt on a decision should be a red flag.

      These social invitations from family are to do dangerous things, even if the intent was pure. [What if they wanted you to do lines of coke with them? Obvious, no, even if they are kind coke-sharers?] The minute guilt or pressure is applied to a “no, thank you,” it should be clear that not only was the choice originally yours, but that YOU have nothing to apologize for.

      1. This is such good framing, and hopefully people can emphathize with teens who find it so hard to say no to peer pressure. I think adults sometimes think ourselves “above” the peer pressure but then situations like this come along, and it’s SO HARD to say no when your family is nice and you genuinely enjoy spending time with them, but they’re going against CDC and local guidance. We expect teens to say no to dangerous behavior even if you’ll feel bad and they’ll freeze you out. We have to do the same as adults.

        1. Right?! I guess teens should get a lot more empathy now — if adults are ignoring rules, doing dangerous things, shaming people into doing bad things, etc., we are setting a horrid example. I bet they are screen-shotting all of this for the next don’t vape / don’t have risky s*x / binge drink.

        2. Definitely. It’s never rude to set your own boundaries. It FEELS rude to push back when people try to breach those boundaries, but you have to tell yourself that THEY’RE the ones being rude.

        3. We have been pointing this out a lot with our teen. It is really hard to tell Aunt and Uncle that no, they can’t stay with us after flying here from a hot spot. We love them, but it’s just not safe for anyone involved. We know we are doing the right thing even though it makes us feel badly. Repeat ad nauseum for big family dinner, visiting Grandma and Grandpa, in-person church services, etc. etc.

    4. We lost our big Christmas get-togethers a few years ago when my mom moved away and my in-laws became snowbirds. We had a couple of sad lonely Christmases at home and then decided to create a new nuclear family tradition of traveling over Christmas. It is amazing, especially with kids 10+. Obviously off the table this year and possibly next year, but it’s something to look forward to if you don’t want to mess with the extended family in the future.

    5. I’m so sorry you’re going through this, I’ll add my voice to the chorus assuring you you’re doing the right thing, but it can be so hard to hold firm in situations like this and not feel a little guilty.

    6. I don’t know if this helps but NPR did a story about this recently. Even a physical was talking about how hard it was in her family. The suggestion was to offer something else such as “I don’t feel comfortable having an inside meal with you because of risk but how about we get together outside after for a social distanced walk.”

  5. I know one or more people here have a Bouq subscription — can you please tell me more about it? Which options did you select, and what kind of flowers have you been receiving? How long do they last? We’re thinking of this as a gift of the in-laws, who don’t have hobbies and have everything they need, but it’s more than we had planned to spend so we’re a little unsure.

    1. I had a Bouq subscription for 2 years, the “Classics” collection.

      Pros: Always arrived predictably, nice to receive flowers on a regular schedule, lots of options to customize (which I never used)
      Cons: Quality and variety declined over the 2 years I had the subscription. Wasn’t unusual for several blooms to come wilted or damaged. I received the same three, non-seasonal bouquets over and over again- sunflowers with purple accents, a truly hideous tropical arrangement, and pretty bland white flowers. I hadn’t received anything but these for the better part of a year. Could have been a mismatch of my taste and maybe I would have been better switching to another collection, but we moved houses and I decided to cancel rather than update the address.

      Hope this helps. I think it’s a nice gift idea for someone who isn’t too picky about flowers but likes to receive them. I still use Bouqs all the time to send flowers to friends and family, but I think the subscription management needs a little refinement on the company’s part.

    2. As an alternate – I purchased a 3-month subscription from Enjoy Flowers for my grandmother. I thought the pricing was pretty reasonable – looks a little lower than bouqs. The first delivery is Monday, so I will report back once it is received.

      1. I did the same and my mom loved the subscription. One the bouquets lasted amazingly long.

    3. So possibly also check with local florists where they live? My favorite one in metro detroit does a monthly bouquet subscription that ends up being around 30 a month delivered and they theme it around a different flower every month. I bought it for myself for my birthday because I love having flowers around and with quarantine wasn’t stopping to get them. It was more economical than most of what I found online and am trying to support local as much as possible this year in safe ways.

      1. Thank you all and I’ll check for more responses later — Shananana, the live in a weird part of NYC where there’s only 2 florists who deliver and they are both EXTREMELY expensive, otherwise I would definitely go this route!

        1. Check out Farmgirl Flowers, I think they’re also national but the style is more modern overall and I’ve gotten better flowers quality-wise from them than Bouqs

          2. Oh, wow, love those! I will be clicking on that site frequently so the ad algorithms will start making suggestions to my husband.

    4. My husband gifted me a Bouqs subscription and I love it, because I love having fresh flowers but it’s one of those things I would never treat myself to otherwise.

      I don’t know what he pays for it – I’ve never asked. We get the middle sized bouquet, which is 2 dozen when it’s roses. (Varies depending on the flower) You can make a selection each month or you can leave it random/seasonal. My husband preselected a couple months – my birthday and our anniversary – to be some of my favorites and then leaves it on autopilot the rest of the time. I don’t think I’ve ever had a duplicate in the same year. But based on seasonal availability, seems like I get close to the same annually – calla lilies in December two years in a row. I’ve been happy with the quality, and very rarely have broken stems.

  6. Is your office doing anything to acknowledge the holidays? The last thing I want is a zoom holiday party (it took us 9 months but we’re finally 80% remote), but I also am a little annoyed that the bosses haven’t acknowledged anything. We’re essential employees who have been run ragged this year and it feels weird that there’s just nothing. We’re in the public sector so our holiday party wasn’t anything impressive (pot luck snacks in the conference room, followed by drinks at a nearby bar we’d have to buy ourselves), which also means the bosses sending us something for a diy holiday party is also out.

    Even if they just acknowledged “this year has sucked, thank you all for working like crazy. Happy holidays. We’ll cut this staff meeting short and here’s 20 minutes of your time back” would be nice.

    1. The 20% pay cut we took in April – June? They just announced we are getting that money back in a lump sum in the last payroll of the year.

      1. OMG that is amazing!! THAT is how to show your employees they are appreciated!

    2. Public sector office here, and we aren’t doing anything, either. I think managers are in a tough spot here — absolutely no one wants another forced zoom get-together — but I hear you that it may feel crummy to not acknowledge it in some way.

    3. For our last division meeting of the year, our director put together a timeline that illustrated the ways our work had changed over the course of the year and the amazing things we’d accomplished in response to and in spite of those challenges. The acknowledgement was nice. Then she announced the well-deserved promotion of a fantastic employee who has been kicking a$$ while taking intermittent FMLA to supervise on-line learning for her three young kids. That was a nice morale boost. Then she ended the meeting half an hour early. I felt more appreciation for our work in that meeting than at any of the holiday parties we’ve ever had.

    4. My managing partner sent an email thanking us for our hard work under difficult circumstances, made it clear that any in-person celebrations are canceled, and announced that all employees would get a bigger-than-normal holiday bonus. I love to see it.

    5. An optional paid half-day on the 24th. Most of our staff (not law or finance) are hourly, so it’s I think the gesture isn’t a bad one. Not sure how many will actually take it, but at least they thought of something for this rough year. I think we’ll also get an email from our firm president next week thanking us for our hard work; he usually does send out a similar message a few days before Christmas.

      1. Also, we got bonuses paid before Thanksgiving – earlier this year we were told that bonuses might not happen due to the general state of the economy, but it turns out that the firm did enough revenue that everyone got bonuses (not a lot by this board’s standards, but even an extra $500 to $2000 was very appreciated by field and office staff).

    6. Private, small law firm of <15 and my miserly partners are doing anything either. Usual practice is a firm-wide dinner with an open alcohol situation.

      in their crappy defense, they haven't done anything to support us all year, so none of us were really expecting anything than a one line email on christmas eve. No group zooms, no 'thanks for keeping your hours high in the face of all this BS', no surprise bonus days off. Just grinding through by ourselves, getting scolded to keep pumping out work. This is just me ranting now :) but I thought I was doing okay through most of pandemic (DINK so my problems are far fewer than others!) but now that EOY is here it's really bumming me out that the work-element of my life sucks.

    7. We are having some Thai and Deli takeouts brought in to our office next Tuesday.

      One person, Lynn will lay out each of the orders that individuals have provided to her by today, placing each order on the conference room table with that employee’s name.

      When Lynn calls them, they will come in, individueally, take their order and return to their offices.

      We will have an in-house ZOOM Call after each person gets their food, and we will all be able to eat remotely, in each office.

      Thereafter we will have a remote sing-along, including both Christmas and Hanukah songs, even tho Hanuakah will be over by then.

      The manageing partner will be the only person not in the office that day, but he will be on ZOOM the whole time, allowing him to have private chats with anyone who wants it. He says he will be back in as soon as he gets the vaccine.

      He also promised that we will have a great party — in office and together — as early as April, in time for Spring, and that the Hamton’s Barbeque is also tentatively scheduled for the July 4 holiday. I therefore will start exercising so that I can look great in my bikini. YAY!!

    8. Virtual holiday party and surprise shut down between Christmas and New Year’s so I’m happy.

    9. Major university, we’ve had dire warnings of redundancies and then a “personalized” email sent out as recognition. But it was just a mailmerge to thousands of people. My team has been good though, lots of check-ins and we did a hour festive chat.

    10. This may well out me – the £30 we would each usually have as an allowance to be spent on the team Christmas dinner was instead issued to each of us through our rewards system, to turn into vouchers to do what we wanted with. My immediate team had an extended version of our usual payday drinks over Zoom, but no ‘Zoom party’

        3. Hasn’t she also shared her Instagram handle before? You think that’s be more of an out than this!

        4. Because I think we’re the only organisation that did that – certainly I haven’t heard of any others. I don’t mind referring to my social media here because it doesn’t say what organisation I work for.

          1. Do you think people here have insider knowledge of every single organization in the UK and what their Christmas practices are?

          2. No need to be rude. I suspect the concern is if somebody in her office also reads here. Not that some random reader across the world will happen to know what her organization did for bonuses.

    11. Large higher ed institution – my department puts together bags which are usually just freebies we’ve accumulated over the year. It’s not bad, and you get some good surprises – looking at you, portable bamboo cutlery set!

      1. Oh and the real reward is that we’re closed between Christmas and New Year’s. And we’re really closed, not “we’re closed but your boss is going to work anyway so yeah, you’re working too.”

    12. Ill admit public sector is tough – my bosses can’t give bonuses or extra pay or extra time off or reverse our pay cuts and theres no budget for holiday parties. We’re a department of ~50 that’s a cog in a bigger machine. It sounds like a lot of you have companies that are doing really nice things for you all! It’s genuinely nice to hear what’s being done elsewhere. I can’t begrudge my bosses for not doing that because they literally can’t.

      Morale is already super low in the office (toxic workspace and this year didn’t help). We get the occasional “thank you” email, but a thank you email when everyone worked 80+ hour weeks for like 6 months straight doesn’t go very far. One boss brought in donuts once (when we were all still in person- we’ve only been mostly remote for about a month, but we still have a skeleton crew in 24/7).

      I didn’t expect much, and I shouldn’t because that’s not our culture, but some acknowledgment of the terrible year we’ve had and the incredible amount of work we all did would have been nice!

    13. We’re having a zoom Secret Santa and getting a small bonus to buy ourselves a holiday drink. I thought that was the perfect amount of holiday recognition.

    14. large, govt org had a surprisingly nice zoom town hall meeting, which lasted 15 minutes, thanked us all sincerely for how well we’ve done this year, we got to vote on a festive sweater contest, and leadership read a silly poem that fit the year and our field.
      They’ve been overall good with communication and appreciating the staff, the whole year.

    15. My office usually has a holiday party at a nice restaurant on a Friday afternoon. This year, they told us that they’ve decided to save most of the party budget for a get-together in the summer or fall. On the day the party is typically held, they gave out picnic-type boxes with cheese and charcuterie (put together by a restaurant or catering company), had premixed alcoholic drinks in the kitchen, and closed the office at 3. They’ve also avoided layoffs, and we received bonuses, despite court closures earlier this year affecting what’s coming in.

    16. I’m a sole proprietor so I’m treating my staff (me) to half of the 24th and all of the 25th off.

      My feline assistant will be getting a new catnip mouse – all of his old ones are “dead” (i.e. tail-less)

    17. I can guarantee that our last all-staff meeting before the holidays (this afternoon) will be filled with doom and gloom; our director will probably go on and on about how these are the darkest days the country has ever seen, probably mention that there are lots of deaths, how our clients are suffering, and then maybe toss in a “I hope you have a good holiday season and stay safe” (but also probably add “because your clients need you to be safe and you need to work.” On the list of which groups I care about staying healthy for, my clients are not #1, nor is my ability to work).

      So, long story short, no. My office is not.

  7. This week’s events have convinced me that I need a pair of high boots. It really doesn’t snow that much in the NE, but when it does (like the 2.5 ft we just got at once), I need something to make it out of the house. Any recs? I did purchase kids’ Tofino II boots in black (b/c they are cheaper and don’t have that contrast fur trim that seems so out of style now), but I’m thinking they may not be warm or good enough. I see the adult version gets terrible reviews (but the kids version does not…so who knows?).

    1. So the fur trim may be less trendy now, but I find that it helps keep the snow from drifting into the boots. Same for fur trim on the hood of a coat–it helps catch the snow that would otherwise fly into your face.

      1. The black have fur trim, but it is plain black (unlike the adult version, which is gray).

    2. I have both North Face brand and LL Bean brand boots (the LL Bean kind with the rubbery foot part, like the preppy handbook) and both have lasted many years –though to be fair, I don’t wear them unless I’m shoveling or playing in snow — for light 1 – 2″ snow, I just wear Merrell clogs and deal with it if the back of my heel gets a little wet.

    3. If you want something practical for snow rather than cute, I can highly recommend the Kamik Canuck. Basic black snow boot, but they keep my feet incredibly warm in a US/Canada border state.

      2. I bought a Kamik coat off Sierra Trading Post last spring (clearance babyyyy) and I LOVE it. The brand seems pretty solid.

        1. I loooove Sierra trading post. I shop online but I would love if there was one in person near me

      3. Thanks for the tip on this brand! I’ve been looking for a winter rain/light snow boot and just haven’t loved the options I’d found so far, but the Kamik Sienna Mid looks like a winner.

    4. I get my kids Bog boots and have been considering a pair for myself but have been waiting until I can go somewhere and try them on because my wide calfs make it hard to find boots that will fit. I have a pair of 10 year old Keens winter boots that are still going strong so despite the fact that they are really ugly. Plus of Bogs is that they are also good in mucky, rainy and muddy weather not just snow. I think any winter boot is going to outlive its trendiness so best to buy something fairly plain.

      1. +1 to Bogs. Highly recommend. Very warm, comfortable.

        I actually have very wide (plus-size) calves and they fit me comfortably. The calves are made of neoprene so they’re very stretchy. I have the men’s tall version, which are really just unisex.

    5. I use my Hunters with the fleece liners (+ socks) for short times outside in snow and slush – they’re not super super warm but for a half-hour at a time for errands? Great. Very important for Puddles of Mysterious Depth at street corners.

      1. Huge caveat, don’t wear Hunters in freezing temperatures. The natural rubber will freeze and crack. Ask me how I know!

        1. Good tip. I won’t be trying that.

          I have “errand” boots and boots for walking in a lil bit of snow like we usually get, but I feel like I need some better gear.

    6. Following, and also related question: Any recs for boots that actually go up to knee height? Every snow boot I see is like calf-height. I LOVE winter and often want to go tromping through some pretty deep snow! I think the Joan of the Arctic boots used to be this high, but then they made them shorter and dressier.

      1. These are crazy expensive but total workhorses. I’ve worn them for two snowy, salty, icy NE winters and they still look new. I’m 5-8 and they are knee height.

        https://www.nordstrom.com/s/la-canadienne-helene-genuine-shearling-waterproof-boot-women/5770214?country=US&currency=USD&mrkgadid=3356815451&mrkgcl=760&mrkgen=gpla&mrkgbflag=0&mrkgcat=&utm_content=33817189095&utm_term=aud-1020490095543:pla-324627195057&utm_channel=low_nd_shopping_standard&sp_source=google&sp_campaign=662927176&adpos=&creative=145503088523&device=m&matchtype=&network=g&acctid=21700000001689570&dskeywordid=92700049882462562&lid=92700049882462562&ds_s_kwgid=58700005470151424&ds_s_inventory_feed_id=97700000007631122&dsproductgroupid=324627195057&product_id=32420535&merchid=1243147&prodctry=US&prodlang=en&channel=online&storeid=&locationid=9004290&targetid=aud-1020490095543:pla-324627195057&campaignid=662927176&adgroupid=33817189095&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIja7og4nY7QIVEI3ICh3I5g0TEAQYASABEgLSgvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

      2. Sorel had the Cate the Greats that were knee-high (not the Joan of Artic). They were heavy and more suited for standing around cold places (like late November outdoor football games) than tromping thru deep snow.

        Deep snow is a pain in the ass to tromp thru, which is why most people use snow shoes to walk on top of it. If you want tromping, consider snow pants. Or gaiters over your boots.

        LL Bean does have some shearling line Bean Boots that have a 16″ shaft.

  8. Has anybody had this with Facebook recently — a page comes up that says “A page you liked, XXX, has changed its name to YYY recently” — I go to the page, and it’s marked as though I had liked it in the past, but I have absolutely zero memory of having liked it under the original name? This is happening with fitness places, but they are not fitness places that I would ever have known / liked because they aren’t in my local area and I have no other tie to them.

    1. No because we have moved away from Facebook. It’s every bit as bad as the complaints here about Amazon. Family, kids, and friends no longer post on it. We stick with group chats and other social media. Insta is owned by FB, and we still post a bit there, but it doesn’t have the same conspiracies and weird posts that FB does. It’s probably better for our mental health too.

  9. Has anyone attended/registered for the MasterClass online classes? If so, how was it? I am thinking of gifting an annual membership for DH as he enjoy cooking and love Yotam Ottolenghi and thought it would be a nice gift.

    1. I took Kelley Wearstler’s design class, I thought it was interesting but not applicable in real life. It was a class on how she does her work rather than “here’s design concepts you can apply at home” and since I’m not renovating a major hotel any time soon, not super useful beyond a tip here and there. That said, it was something different from TV and peak pandemic made me feel like I was doing something.

    2. My friend has one and she says that it is more inspirational than instructive. A lot of the same content can be found via google and YouTube.

  10. This is a bit of a long shot, but does anyone in the NYC area have any experience with or tips on buying a cover for apartment radiators? I live in a post-war building but the HVAC systems in the apartments are a bit older. The radiators – for lack of a better word, since I’m not really good with this kind of stuff – vent through the wall, so we get noise and a bit of dust inside. They’re also old and not super attractive. I’ve seen some nicer covers in the past, including some that have removable tops that you can use to get the venting from the HVAC (generally I don’t need to run the radiator in the winter and very seldom run the AC in the summer.) Any tips would be much appreciated.

    1. I feel like I might’ve seen a post about this on the Laurel Bern interiors blog.

    2. Etsy has these. I’ve also had a contractor make them as part of a bigger reno.

    3. Are they the metal covers that are basically attached to the wall and the workings are half inside half outside? If not, ignore most of the following.

      I’ve had these in all of my post-war building apartments (4 and counting!)(another fun note: search your address and add site:columbia.edu, and you might find your building’s original offering brochure and floor plans!).
      Other than getting them painted professionally (I’m a big DIYer but this is basically impossible to do well yourself), I don’t have much advice. In one apartment, I had a radiator cover built that attached to the wall and went all across the room, with storage on either side (I used manhattan covers — they did great work). It looked much nicer but there was no functional difference. In my current place, I actually turn mine off, and the heat from adjacent apartments keeps mine at a pleasant ~65 degrees without the noise and dust and overheating — whether this works depends on where in your building you are located relative to the pipes and boiler, and varies room to room. You would have to experiment — my child’s room is too hot with the radiator on and too cold with it off. The clanging noise is probably because you have the valve partially open or closed — this does not moderate the heat, but just makes it harder for the steam to pass through and causes noise. They are supposed to have only on (all the way open) and off (all the way closed) settings. Hope this helps!

    4. Hmm, I’m trying to picture what kind of HVAC you mean. Are your radiators built into the wall, or are they freestanding a couple inches away from the wall? I live in a 60s era building in NYC that has steam heat, in-wall radiators with metal grills, and sleeves for through the wall A/C units. But I have a friend in another 60s era building that has some other weird kind of central A/C that may also be heat? Anyway, I digress… I think the real answer for you is likely custom-built. When we renovated our apartment, my husband spent some time stripping and repainting come of the radiator grills, but it was a ton of work, and he just built covers for some of the others. I wish I had a specific company recommendation but I don’t; perhaps Yelp would.

      1. wow, I thought I’d strike out but these are all helpful starting points, thanks. Anon at 10:09, I think it’s more like your friend’s place – no grills per se. They’re just biggish (3-4 feet tall, 3-4 feet wide) units that extend about a foot into the apartment but also go through the wall. The building is indeed early 60sish.

        1. It sounds like you might have PTAC units. Talk to your neighbors or building super – they might be able to recommend someone to build enclosures for you.

  11. I think my boss is starting to finally realize that her boss is a sexist asshole to her. Probably a weird thing to cheer, but YAY!

  12. I never watched it when it first aired, but I am watching Gossip Girl (got exposed; too early to test; am quarantining; need doomscrolling distraction). It is surprisingly watchable and (bonus) EASY to watch (unlike Game of Thrones, where I need a Guide b/c the characters are all named Bran/Bron and dress alike). I think that the fashions have held up pretty well, at least as that segment of fashion goes. I already know who the characters are just from being alive back then and their basic arcs. It is very soapy, like Dynasty, but in a high school. And it is fun, which most things in my life aren’t right now.

    1. Better hurry up and watch the rest because it’s leaving Netflix soon! There is also going to be a new “woke and queer” remake.

      1. Why do you have to put it in quotation marks like you’re mocking it? Is it fun to look down on diversity?

        2. It worked so well for the One Day at a Time revival.

          OTOH, Cruel Intentions was magnificent for a remake of Dangerous Liaisons, but casting was so spot on and I can’t imagine it otherwise. Maybe it can work for GG, but color me skeptical.

      2. In which case, I highly recommend anyone needing GOT recaps years too late to check out Jonathan Van Ness’s Gay of Thrones recaps. They were very helpful to me in sorting out who was who on that show.

      1. Omg YES, there were SO many headbands in the stores in the 2008-2010 timeframe and I thought they looked so cute on 20-something me. That show had a HUGE impact in fashion in NY at the time.

    3. I am looking forward to Bridgerton, which looks like regency-era Gossip Girl. Love the race-blind casting and the visuals from the previews.

      1. My favorite doctor’s wife wrote the Bridgerton books! I love reading the dedications because she always dedicates them to him. “And for Paul, even though the closest thing you’d ever find to a a romance in his field Is a lecture called “The Kiss of Death.”

        1. Just chiming in to say I love these books so much! It makes me happy to think they’ll reach even more readers who will be introduced by the tv series.

      2. I have been waiting for this since I first heard they were being converted, and Netflix’s “coming in 2020” is not fair when it’s coming at the very end of the year! As a Jew, my Christmas plan in the absence of open movie theaters is to binge Bridgerton, eat really fancy cheese, and drink wine, and I am just so excited to have something frothy and fluffy to watch. Because I need it so, so much.

        Side notes: the costumes look fantastic, even if I have no idea if they are authentic. The casting of the Featheringtons is spot on (I’ve loved Polly Walker since “Rome.”)

    4. I could never stand Gilmore Girls (I’m old enough to have watched it the first time around) due to their incessant, fast-paced prattle, but I highly recommend Derry Girls on Netflix if you want something funny and episodic. And the Derry Girls British Bake-Off episode.

      1. Derry Girls is HILARIOUS. You might need subtitles.
        It’s on YouTube, but there’s a game show called Taskmaster that makes me laugh so hard my stomach hurts. It’s very British and a bit difficult to explain, but it’s very funny.

        2. Another big Taskmaster fan here! Am on series 5. Greg Davies…so massively witty.

    5. No shame that is one of my favorite shows. I read the books in middle and high school, and although all of the characters are all flawed, Blair Waldorf taught me to not put up with shit. Also Chace Crawford has been my top celeb crush since the show started haha

      1. That’s interesting — the Chace Crawford character seems to be the only meh one (besides Blair’s toadies). But I’m only in Season 1.

        1. He is pretty boring, but I think has some hidden redeeming qualities as the show goes on. His character in the books on the other hand is terrible. But I mainly meant more that he is so attractive. I started watching The Boys because I saw he was in it (also highly recommend)

    6. IDK, I started the first episode and there was just…a lot of attempted r*pe. I was expecting something lighter and fluffier I think?

      1. The show redeems Chuck but knowing he’s so vile IRL kind of ruined it for me since Chuck + Blair is endgame.

    7. It is surely entertaining. Like some reality TV show where you can’t look away from the trainwreck of bad decision making, but since it’s a TV show, it all looks more beautiful. Totally the right thing for your quarantine, I hope it turns out ok, OP!

    8. I loved Gossip Girl the first time around, and now I think you’ve inspired me to binge re-watch it over my holiday vacation!

  13. Wise hive – some shopping help, please? I am looking for a boot or sneaker that is warm and waterproof/water resistant. Something that I can run a mile in but is also warm enough for DC winters. I jogged alongside my kids on bikes yesterday and was freezing in my sneakers and I know i would not be able to comfortably jog in my usual winter boots. Is there a boot/sneaker hybrid?

    1. Can you use your sneakers with a warm pair of wool socks? No sneaker/boot hybrid is meant for jogging, IMO. Alternatively, Brooks has GoreTex versions of their most popular running shoes.

    2. So, I have a pair of Dr Scholls lace up short boots that I actually prefer for walking the dog over any true winter boots I own because they have sneaker like treads and good insoles and with warm socks my feet stay dry and toasty. So maybe something in the Dr Scholls / sketchers / etc type would work for your needs? The ones I have are a few years old but look like the current year so cozy boots.

    3. Northern Canada here. I am including a link to a Runner’s World roundup of shoes for winter. But having run a 10K in the Rockies in “SURPRISE!” a foot-deep, wet snowfall, I can recommend wool hiking socks to replace your regular socks with whatever sneakers you normally use. Icebreaker are my favourite. Should be enough for a DC run with your kids, I’m thinking.

      https://www.runnersworld.com/gear/a20865467/best-winter-running-shoes/

      1. +1 – I jog in NYC all winter and just wear regular shoes. Maybe it is because I am moving constantly and my heart rate is high, but my feet never get cold. I can see that being more of a problem with a stop/go kid pace.

    4. I have two thoughts for you here – hello from Chicago!
      Salomon has some great waterproof running shoes – I’d filter by waterproof and trail running. I love Salomon shoes in general because they’re made for high arches, narrow heels, and wide forefoots- the dreaded ‘triangle foot’ but they’re great for running. https://www.rei.com/b/salomon/c/womens-trail-running-shoes/f/f-waterproof?ir=brand%3Asalomon%3Bcategory%3Awomens-trail-running-shoes&r=b%3Bc%3Bf
      I’d also wear merino socks with them- not regular running socks. The wool will keep your feet warm, even if they do eventually get wet.

    5. To clarify, are you jogging/biking on a paved surface or on a dirt trail? That would affect whether the solution might be warmer socks or trail shoes- the latter generally have nubby soles that I find to be uncomfortable on pavement.

    6. I run in my wool hiking socks when it’s cold! I agree – the type of sneaker you’re looking for isn’t ideal for running in.

      Allbirds have a water resistant merino wool shoe (Mizzles) but I wouldn’t run in them

  14. another COVID risk question- and to preface this, we are going to do this, I’m just trying to understand where on the scale of “terrible human” to “it’s a risk some people are willing to take” this activity falls.

    My family (2 WFH adults, 3 kids: two in elem that wear masks when they go in person, one in daycare that wears a mask. Last day of in person school for all will be Monday 12/21) and my mom (low risk, 62, provides our childcare for us on non school days and lives in our town; part of our COVID bubble since the begininng) will be doing christmas day with my dad, brother, brother’s GF and sister. My dad and brother/girlfriend share a duplex; my dad WFHs most of the time, and brother does not WFH but works in a job where he sees basically nobody (he’s an antique car mechanic- his clients are either long term ie they leave a car for months or they drop it with keys in a drop box and they chat on video about what needs to happen). Brother’s GF WFH (and is a public health professional).

    My dad and my mom work together–they do outdoor client walk-thrus [commercial real estate type work], masked, and that’s about it for non WFH stuff. the last time they have been anywhere was 7 days ago.

    My sister is a clinican in a nursing home and gets a covid test every 3 days. She’s already had COVID this summer. She is the only one that lives out of state and nobody has seen her since before the pandemic began.

    The plan is for my sister to get her COVID test on Monday, leave immediately, stay with my mom in mom’s basement lair (separate room and bathroom) until she gets her results {generally they are 24 hours].

    We’re planning to do Christmas morning together at my house. As far as I can tell, it will be 5 days of full on no-going-anywhere for almost everyone. My kids won’t go anywhere, my sister will be done working and have her test results. Yes, someone may run to the grocery store and that does carry a risk. And yes, it’s a group of 10 people (three separate COVID bubbles- my fam + mom, dad/brother/GF, and sister). If anyone has anything other than perfect health, plans are off. Everyone is in good health, low risk, very complaint about masks etc in public.

    Afterward, I don’t everyone else’s plan, but my kids have 9 days until their next in-person school which would be their only exposure to the world, and they are masked and distanced [and OF COURSE would not go if for any reason we suspected anything].

    So–thoughts on plan, “not a great idea, you know you should just stay home and see nobody, but given the circumstances the societal risks are relatively low given the circumstances” or “this is insane, you selfish humans.” ? We skipped Thanksgiving entirely– my sister couldn’t get off work and get tested with enough of a space to make us feel OK about it, plus my kids had to be back in school after just a few days.

    1. I would skip school on Monday to decrease the risk a lot. (Not so much the risk of exposure on that one day but it increases the time between the last school day and seeing everyone)

      1. +1

        I don’t get why schools would even bother with school on Monday! My mom is a teacher (in person 100% of the time) and today is her last day. They even made it a half day and remote!

      2. To add to this – there’s the risk of transmitting Covid at your gathering, but also the risk of sharing it afterwards. You should all be drastically minimising contacts in the 10-14 days afterwards as well.

        1. LOL, do you think someone with this Christmas plan (“we are going to do this”) is going to work to “drastically minimize contacts” for 10-14 days afterward? That would be far too much consideration for others.

        2. Yes!! Honestly I think the even bigger risk is all these people exposed to each other and then going back to work and back into their communities without quarantining. They should be worried about spreading covid to other people!

    2. Why even post this? You said you were going to do it so who cares what anybody thinks. If you actually are open to feedback and not just pot-stirring, it is selfish and wrong. “Bubbles” are already 99% BS and we are entering the very deadliest days of the pandemic. Have you not been reading the posts from others who have lost parents or parents in law the past few days?

      1. Yup this. Of course people are going to do what they want. But you don’t need to brag about it.

        1. +1. Yeah, you’re double terrible for announcing & normalizing your bad behavior.

    3. Truly I wish you hadn’t shared. What’s the point when you start with “to be clear we are def doing this no matter what you say”? Just to stir up trouble? Start some Friday drama? Feeling guilty and hoping we will let you off the hook?

      You made your decision. Live with it yourself.

      1. 100% agree. Maybe she was trying to kick a few posters while they’re down. Nothing like posting here looking for support after losing a loved one to COVID and feeling like you’re crazy because the rest of the family doesn’t care and then seeing this, huh? Maybe this poster is actually one of the people in that non-caring family!

    4. Obviously this is a bad idea and a big risk considering your sister’s job. You shouldn’t be doing this. There, are you happy?

        1. +1. We aren’t seeing my parents who live 2 towns over, and to explain our various activities and caveats doesn’t take 8 paragraphs.

        2. +1 We aren’t seeing my MIL and FIL who live 10 minutes away, and one of whom has a birthday next week.

    6. I think you should examine why you need validation from strangers about a decision you already made.

    7. Will your sister do a two week quarantine before going back to work when she returns home? The rest of that plan sounds generally risky but she is potentially killing some grandparents if it goes wrong. I know you said she’s already had covid but given that reinfections are being seen I would still be pretty worried about that. Is your plan to combine bubbles and just breathe all over one another on Christmas morning or do you plan to keep up masking, have open windows, eat outside/in separate rooms with doors closed? I think it’s really important to remember that we don’t have to throw out all precautions just because we’re seeing family. Since no one is doing a full two week quarantine before hand, I would keep up as many distancing and ventilation precautions as possible.

      1. Of course she won’t. We should just assume that in OP’s world, it’s opposite day where every COVID recommendation to save others’ lives is turned on its head.

    8. If your mom is already your child care, then she’s already exposed to your kids all the time anyway. It’s unclear from your post, but if I understand correctly that your mom and dad do not live together, that’s really where you should stop-just your family and your mom. Adding your brother/gf and dad would require a longer period of quarantine to do safely. If the kids are in schools till on 12/21 there isn’t enough time to develop symptoms or get an accurate test between last exposure and christmas.
      Adding your sister takes it from a bad idea to horrible. Your sister is in a job with a super high risk of exposure, at a time when cases are exploding in long term care facilities particularly. Getting tested on her last day of work will tell you absolutely nothing about any exposures she may have had in the last 1-7 days. At the very least you should keep her quarantined in the basement after Monday and have her retest on the 23rd. But this is stupid and irresponsible and while it sucks for you and your sister not to see her, she is risking bringing the virus to you all and even worse, risking bringing it back to the vulnerable patients she treats at the nursing home. Given that nursing homes have been blocking visitors for months, basically all outbreaks are starting from staff who are doing risky things in their personal time and bringing the virus in. She should know this and I’m quite shocked she’s willing to do this.

      Agree with the others that if you are truly doing this no matter what, you have no business posting this here except to cause trouble. No one cares that you feel justified in doing this because you missed thanksgiving. Lots of people missed thanksgiving because they can’t quarantine properly and it sucks. That doesn’t mean that the reality of our horrible situation doesn’t apply to you.

      1. +1 to all of this. I am also getting VERY tired of the argument that “it’s OK because I’ve already had Covid!” No, it’s really not. The antibodies don’t last forever. If she had Covid over the summer, it’s unlikely that she’s still immune to the virus.

        It matters what you do after the gathering, too. I’m at the point where I dread leaving the house after Christmas just to get groceries, thanks to all the people who will travel and gather over the holiday. Fun times!

        I do not fear getting sick — I’d probably be fine — but I sure do fear unknowingly passing it to someone more vulnerable.

        1. This. I’m the poster with the friend who had it in May and has it again now, though this time asymptomatic.

    9. I’m really getting to the point of having no sympathy for people who get covid and pass away when taking these kinds of risks. I’m not sure if it makes ME the bad person or not.

      1. Honestly, so are many of the healthcare workers I work with. Makes me want to put a “I DID EVERYTHING RIGHT, I PROMISE!” sign on my chest if I end up in the hospital. Compassion fatigue is real, and people taking unnecessary risks are ruining it for everyone.

    10. Yes, terrible human. As that one article says though, I don’t know how to make you care about other people.

    11. on the scale of “terrible human” to “it’s a risk some people are willing to take” this falls squarely on “terrible human”. Please cancel.

    12. I am swallowing much harsher words that I would like to say to OP, but the fact is the only way to prevent the spread of Covid is to not have an unmasked indoor gathering with people who do not live in your household. You clearly feel you have assessed the risk of your family members attending this gathering, but you have not, nor can you, assess the risk of the people your family members will spread it to should they get infected. How do you not understand the latter part is how this pandemic has gotten this bad? I dont know how to tell you that you should care about other people. Really sad post, OP.

      1. This part, right here. Highlight it for the world to see:
        “You clearly feel you have assessed the risk of your family members attending this gathering, but you have not, nor can you, assess the risk of the people your family members will spread it to should they get infected. How do you not understand the latter part is how this pandemic has gotten this bad?”

      2. I think it is too many people. We have our group of 8 who would normally get together at a holiday and we’re going to be in groups of 3, 2, 1, and 2. I am coordinating no-contact drop-off of gifts to each household and we will Zoom the opening of gifts.

    13. I have Covid, despite having had very limited contact with the world since March and adhering to mask wearing and distancing protocols when I did. Problem being, that was just me and obviously I couldn’t control other people. “Other people” included some trump loving Covid deniers, “but muh rights” idiots, and people like this one who think they are magically exempt from the strictures of best practices for a pandemic.

      I woke up this morning hating all these people. Truly truly hating them. I took every precaution that was possible for me, yet I am sick, while people like this go gallivanting the f$ck around thinking that if they set 14 perfect rules or something for their unmasked encounters, all will be well. OP is gonna do what OP wants to do, just like so many others. Don’t think for one moment that it doesn’t change others’ opinions of you permanently.

      1. Yep, all of this. You can do what you want, but don’t be surprised when people hate you, think less of you, and judge you. You have your rights and they have theirs – just don’t come here looking for sympathy when you’re depressed after killing someone.

      2. I also hate these people. Stupid things like this- stupid, selfish, terrible human, you should be ashamed of yourself things- are the reason that I thought that seeing my dad leave on a stretcher would be the last time I’d ever see him because we cannot visit him in the hospital. We cannot see him in rehab. He will be alone on Christmas. We will not see him until he is home from rehab- whenever that is.

        OP, you are a terrible person. Not just “this is a terrible human thing to do,” but YOU are a terrible human. If you’re going to do this, why broadcast it? Just go have your irresponsible, stupid, selfish party that may end up killing people and leave the rest of us out of it. You are not special. Everyone is hurting. Your special snowflake feelings aren’t any worse than everyone else’s. Get f-ed.

      3. Anon @12:42, I’m so sorry you have Covid and I hope you feel better soon! Fingers crossed there are no complications.

      5. I also have COVID, likely thanks to someone’s selfish and unnecessary Thanksgiving gathering. My brother (who I did not get it from, as I haven’t seen him since the summer) also recently got it – at either a laundromat or a bodega. I’m sooo enraged at all the people that are having “small” house parties, and the huge lines at the testing sites due to people with no symptoms getting tested pre-holidays is infuriating. Testing is a snapshot of that moment, doesn’t mean you don’t have it incubating, and doesn’t mean you won’t get exposed five minutes later. It means nothing! Stay the ^*(& home!

    14. Stupid. These precautions seem to be based on the idea that people who are contagious have symptoms, that negative test results rule out a developing infection, that people old enough to be your parents can possibly be “low risk,” so this just seems misinformed on top of what others have said.

    15. Come on gals…disagreement with OP choice of holiday plans is totally acceptable. Attacking her as a terrible human screams “mean girl”. Just because this is an anonymous blog attacking on such a personal level isn’t necessary.

        1. Same. Also we are directly responsive to OP’s questions. She wanted to know if she was a “terrible person” and “the plan is insane, you selfish humans” and the answer is yes to both.

    16. If you have to get together, I’d say to meet outside and not open presents. As my mean little old lady grandma would say, Christmas is just a day. I’m not doing things I did even a few months ago. It’s cold, the numbers are up, we’re SO CLOSE to a vaccine being available for everyone.

    17. From a not-in-the-US and not as bad where I live in the US perspective. I’m in a country where the R-number is below one and total covid deaths as per now are 404. (Not four hundred thousand. Four hundred altogether.)

      I would not come to your house this Christmas.

      The main problem is the sister thing. Sorry, it sucks, but yeah, you get a “terrible” score for her travelling. TERRIBLE.

      It’s very unclear whether your mother and father live together or not. It sort of seems like they do not, but still work together.

      The OBVIOUS solution (and the only one that will not give a bad score) is keeping to your bubbles.

      You and your mother and family. Your brother and father and family. Sister alone.

  15. I just realized I have completely missed out on Corporate Gift Season from our business partners. I should be drowning in Harry & David gift baskets right now, from every attorney, surveyor and adjuster I’ve ever hired. Where are my new 2021 calendars with pictures of boats and a jaunty corporate logo? Am I really not going to have a single Hickory Farms meat log to bring home? I call BS.

    3. This makes me wonder if my empty office building has been receiving such items? Or have firms/etc. cut down on these this year recognizing that the logistics of receipt and distribution make no sense this year? My office typically set the items out in a shared space so people could grab at their leisure… even if we were in the office, I don’t imagine shared buffet-of-treats would be happening.

      1. One firm that usually sends up that stuff has told us they are donating the money they spend on it to a food bank instead this year.

    4. So funny! I am going to have to buy my own oversized pens and highlighters, EOS lip kits and cheap wine to use in Sangria. Although I do miss the See’s!

    5. I cheered SO HARD when my firm made charitable donations this year in lieu of sending out baskets and sent an email out to clients wishing them happy holidays and telling them about it.

    6. I got a corksicle canteen from one of our vendors! You can fit a whole bottle of wine in it. Great gift for 2020.

    7. Haha, right?

      Fortunately I was able to buy my own See’s as part of a charity fundraiser…

    8. I did not know what a meat log was prior to this comment. What a world you have opened me up to.

    9. I miss the freebies SO MUCH! Also I did not go to an annual conference this year and I got NO Tote bags, stuffed toys, or USB plug-in gizmos.
      I just ordered a USB plug in humidifier from World Market to (partly) fill the void in my soul.

    10. My favorite year was when one of our vendors sent out gift cards to the Union Square Hospitality group AND a basket from Zabars. I was in my early 20’s, in NYC and pretty broke. A free fancy dinner, wines, jams, and crostini?!? OMG yes!!

    11. HAHAHAA the calendaaaaaaars!
      Still got a lot of christmas cards from vendors, but it’s just not the same.

  16. I need gift ideas for my brother. He likes reading (mostly history stuff, particularly WWII), golf, and what I guess you would call Southern classic rock (think like Allman Brothers). Mid-30s, single. I got him Unsinkable by James Sullivan, but need one or two other small things. Any ideas?

    1. Why not some biographies of notable women in US history? I feel like they get short shrift compared to the men (art imitates life). I’m about to read America’s First Daughter and a friend recommended a biography of Ida B. Wells called To Tell the Truth Freely which sounds really good.

      1. +1 to Boys in the Boat. So good. Does he like Jason Isbell and southern rockers like that? There are a bunch of new releases of concerts on BandCamp. A subscription to that would be cool. (Also directly supports out of work industry folks.)

    4. Here’s a few more books to consider for Dads and brothers- I am trying to get mine to read more books by women authors.
      The Feather thief
      The Immortal Life of Henrietta Lacks
      Why Fish Dont Exist – Lulu Miller
      Why We Swim
      Lakota America: A New History of Indigenous Power by Pekka Hämäläinen

      1. My husband loved Kindred by Octavia Butler. History plus a little sci fi/fantasy.

        1. Why history? I’ve read it and it seemed a complete dystopian alternative universe fantasy.

    5. You may not be looking for another book but he’d probably like The Splendid and the Vile (about Churchill in 1940).

      1. Agree on The Splendid and the Vile. Also highly recommend “A Woman of No Importance” about an American woman who was instrumental in funding/starting the French Resistance. Fantastic read.

    6. Oh! for a small non-book thing, consider the foam or wiffle-style golf practice balls. They’re great for backyard chipping practice without a threat of breaking a window or denting a car.

      I’d also consider a fancyish grooming product, like face wash from Baxter.

    7. Another book idea–The Ghost Army of WWII. I went to the exhibit opening at the WWII Museum in early March, days before the shutdown. It’s fascinating.

    8. Small? Box of golf balls is always appreciated by the golfers in my life. Also, I got my husband something called a “draft top” that apparently turns an aluminum can into a cup. I saw it in real simple and I feel like it would be fun for making a beer cocktail outdoors. Tee shirt with a favorite band’s name? Sounds cheesy but I’d love a tee of my long-defunct favorite bands.

    9. “Ghost Soldiers” by Hampton Sides or “The Clay Pigeons of St. Lo” – both books about WWII that my BIL recommends.

    11. If he likes history, “A Short History of Nearly Everything” by Bill Bryson is fantastic. It combines science and history in a really fascinating way.

      And another vote for “Splendid and Vile” about Churchill.

  17. Ask a Manager does this every Friday, and it really is a good start to the weekend. Anyone have good news to share?

    The semester is over and I could not be more pleased with my school district. All of its decisions have been carefully thought out and based on sound scientific information. My preschooler has been back in school for months, and it has gone amazingly well. My only wish is that the adults of America would be as good about mask wearing as the special needs preschoolers in my kid’s class.

    1. I got laid off and a job offer on the same day (within the same hour). I start in January!

      1. That’s great! My husband was laid off in October and received a job offer this past week to start in January.

    2. I have finished work for 2020 and am on a train to my parents’ to spend two weeks there! (I live alone and this is therefore within Covid regulations here).

      1. Yeah, mass transit is always a good idea if it meets “regulations.”

        Seriously? Why even try to justify.

    4. Where we live, it almost never snows until January. The forecast currently calls for morning snow showers on Christmas Day. My kid and dog love the snow more than just about anything, and a white Christmas would be the perfect gift from the universe this year. I will be crossing my fingers, flushing ice cubes, putting a spoon under the pillow, etc.

    6. My husband is making a good effort to have things be festive and fun at home with just the two of us. It’s really nice.

    7. We woke up this morning to find tracks in the snow in our front and back yard. We thought it was kids or a loose dog. Checked the security cameras and turns out it was six deer out for a late night stroll. It was so cool to see them wandering around!

    8. I found out yesterday that one of my best work friends from my prior job is coming to work where I work!

    10. My dad’s speech has improved a ton since Tuesday- he’s making full sentences and telling jokes!

      3. This is so good to hear! As an Anon poster/long time lurker, I haven’t commented on your updates, but I have been thinking of you. I hope this also helps with staying in touch while he’s in rehab and over the holidays.

    11. I got my first mammogram yesterday and the results came back today negative, my car needed nothing done to pass state inspection, and I was able to find a rescue to take the stray kittens that kept popping up at the barn!

      1. Oh! I gave my godson his Christmas present today and he LOVES it. We did a contactless drop off but he shouted that he loved me and misses me while I was standing on the sidewalk. <3

  18. Help me think this through:

    I just got notified that I was exposed to a person who “just” tested positive for COVID. The exposure was last night (I am finding this all a bit questionable, but had a long talk with the messenger) at my essential work job that I have in-person tasks two nights a month. I am married (sharing a bedroom) and have kids. I’m in a suburban house. If my husband was exposed via me overnight, I still think he should move bedrooms until I can get tested (Tuesday looks like a day where it’s not too soon to test; hopefully I can get a rapid test and get same-day results). I am wearing a hospital-type mask and staying alone in my bedroom and eating my meals there.

    What else should I be doing as I wait this out? I’ve been taking my temp daily since May so I can spot any changes from my normal temp. Everyone else is home anyway (school is remote; spouse is able to WFH; some Christmas gifts will not be picked up from local stores until later; Christmas food will be . . . whatever packaged goods we have on hand and meat I previously froze).

    I *think* that spouse should not even get takeout in a mask; this is where we pivot to contactless delivery (which we generally never use). There is a teen down the street who drives and I am thinking about texting him and Venmoing him some $ if we really need groceries (or all get very sick); we don’t have grocery delivery here as a standing service and picking up if we have it doesn’t seem wise.

    1. Yes, you should all be isolating and getting tested in a few days. You don’t have some kind of service like instacart?

      1. It’s crazy — I live in a city, but even online ordering for store pickup is used so much out of convenience that you’d be likely to get a slot in the time it takes to have COVID and be done with it — more than 2 weeks out, probably not until January with the holidays. And that’s just for pickup; delivery is really just a service that a few senior living facilities arrange for their residents but isn’t otherwise an option. Where everyone has a car, they expect you to drive.

    2. Absolutely no takeout, sleep and stay in separate rooms, and wear a mask in the house are the biggies. Keep testing your sense of smell.

    3. I think your whole household should be in quarantine. Nobody in, nobody out. Not doing this is how the virus has spread.

      And I’m not a COVID loon like some, but I know that is what you have got to do. I have a relative in this situation now.

      1. No need to insult people who are taking the virus seriously. Better to be over-cautious (is there such a thing in this current pandemic stage?) than to be a selfish prick.

        1. By “loon”, I mean those taking completely illogical actions which defy all scientific studies to satisfy one’s personal anxiety. Often to the detriment of others.

          1. I don’t think this is actually happening, at least not to a notable degree – absolutely nowhere near the level of COVID denialism we’re seeing in this county.

          2. How could COVID cautions be to the detriment of others? If someone is unnecessarily disinfecting their groceries or staying at home all the time or whatever, it does not harm me in any way.

          3. Disinfecting groceries was recommended for a while. Maybe it’s not now, but it’s easy to see why people would feel that it’s something they should do. As for staying home all the time…yeah, let’s all do that please. It would get us out of this a helluva lot faster.

        2. I’m new to this thread but I think it is detrimental when an individual’s anxiety leads them to advocate for really extreme things or judge people for actions that are probably unavoidable.

          I really dislike the way people here judge folks for contracting covid. Most folks I know, like my firefighter and homocide detective friends, or my BIL who is a psychiatrist for homelessness folks in Brooklyn, got covid because they were serving us all by going to work. In light of that, everyone else’s anxiety about how covid only spreads because “people are selfish” feels misplaced and unfair. Ditto to the idea that having the resources to stay home and make sure folks of lower ses bring everything to your door puts you in a position to judge those who cannot.

          1. +1

            Literally everyone in my family is an essential worker, teacher, or childcare provider. We’re all risking a lot to go to work to do jobs that need to be done!

          2. I haven’t seen anyone say that the only way to get covid is to be selfish – just the opposite. People are accurately saying that the main reason the pandemic is this bad in the USA is because millions of people of behaving very selfishly, then infecting other people who had no say in their risk taking. Like the poster above, whose sister is having an in-person Christmas gathering and then going to work at a nursing home. Or the numerous people I know who are partying in bars and nightclubs ALL THE TIME and then going to work, exposing their coworkers who didn’t have the option to work from home.

          3. We are not judging the essential workers. We are judging the people who are taking unnecessary risks because of their “me, me, all about me” attitude. This inevitably affects essential workers, who deserve all the protection they can get.

    4. I think you’ve got a good plan! I agree to try to isolate from your family as much as you can at this point, and that they should try to stay away from others as much as possible too. Really really good sanitation practices and handwashing, facetime with kids?
      The plan with the teen for groceries makes a lot of sense, and (if you know you need something and what) I’d also consider reaching out to any neighbors today to ask if they’d mind picking up a few items for you if they’re going grocery shopping this weekend. I don’t think husband should do carryout, so see if you can get restaurant delivery/doordash etc. if needed?

      1. Agree, your plan makes sense and there is a good chance that your exposure would be too recent (virus still incubating within you), that your husband wouldn’t have been exposed overnight. But you’ll isolate for a few days and then you’ll get tested. Crossing my fingers!

    5. The good news is that if you were just exposed last night, the chances that you got infected and your viral load is already high enough to spread it to your family since then is pretty low. But yes, you still need to isolate. Using the teen down the street to get groceries sounds like a great option.

      I’m not sure why you say “just” tested positive. Your colleague could have had the test 4-5 days ago and just got the results. It’s taking that long to get results in many places. And I’m not sure I’d trust the results of a rapid test as my sole means of testing. They are notorious for a high percentage of both false positives and false negatives. A PCR test (which yes, will take longer to get results) is more accurate and isn’t going to give you a false positive (though it could give you a false negative if you take it too early).

      1. I think that I’d be livid if someone awaiting test results was going in to work. It’s one thing perhaps if you work at a place where people are routinely and continuously tested. But if a person is getting tested after a known exposure goes in to work — OMFG NO!

        1. You have no idea that happened. Maybe they had no symptoms or known exposure but got tested for other reasons.

        2. I think this is an overreaction. This person could very well have been getting tested proactively before seeing family for the holidays and have no known close contacts. Requiring anyone taking a test in this situation to quarantine while awaiting a test result (while best practice) is really not fair and would result in less people getting tested.

          1. But if they don’t quarantine after they take the test the results are useless, as they could be exposed between test date and Christmas (especially if they fly after they have a negative result). This is the whole problem with using testing as a way to clear oneself for social gatherings. Most people can’t/won’t do it properly.

        3. It depends on why they were tested. If they were testing to travel/routine testing/etc. it is appropriate for them to continue to work. Essentially they are the exact same as everyone who is condemning them, except they just happened to take a yet and you didn’t.

    7. OP here: I am hoping that the co-worker was doing a routine and precautionary test before holiday visiting and wasn’t known to be exposed and then going into work. [Although, if you are taking a precautionary test before visiting, you probably should stay home to ensure nothing happens to change a negative result, no? I mean, the transmission could have happened in the other direction.]

      At any rate, what is surprising to me is that work was quibbling over whether I was exposed. They weren’t really going to count it as an exposure because we were both masked (but from what I read, masking doesn’t matter). Also, they were thinking that separate instances of contact that total 15 minutes don’t count b/c each instance was small. But I think that that is wrong, too. If you count time within 50 feet inside with the person where office doors are open, it’s 12+ hours (in a large space with high ceilings, but definitely over 15 minutes within 6 feet over that span of time). I know they were trying to not alarm me, but I think a bit of caution is probably better when cases are spiking.

      Our transmission is something like 1.2, which I think is good, considering that if I am sick I probably got my husband sick and could also get 2 kids sick, so that we are a very married/family area, that it’s only 1.2 is good (mostly young single people still)? The good news is that if we get it, with schools remote and closed and the weather bad, my kids will happily take 18 hours a day of screen time for the next 2+ weeks. [The bad news is that there is the risk of grave complications / long-hauler status, but I remind myself that the odds are better for us than any other serious illness or condition we will likely encounter.] I would like to be negative just to get especially the xmas gift from a local bookstore that I’d prefer they have to still more screen time, but whatever. I don’t always get what I want.

      1. maybe that neighborhood teen or another friend would happily do the pickup for you. Letting them do this small act of kindness for you might actually bring them holiday cheer. If you’re in Berkeley, I’ll do it!

      2. Yes, have the neighborhood teen pick up the bookstore gift (and maybe something else) and groceries and leave it by your door. Then isolate! You are a good person for taking this seriously and stopping the spread.

      3. A transmission rate of 1.2 has no impact on how likely you are to transmit COVID to your family if you do have it. It refers to transmission at the community level, which has entirely different dynamics than within a household.

        1. Yes this! 1.2 is the rate of spread in the community and it is an average. Some people spread covid to zero people, even while sharing a bed with their spouse for days after exposure. Some people spread it to 50 people. This is a combination of viral load, number of people they interact with while contagious, and some sort of biological factors that make some people more serious spreaders than others that we don’t understand yet.

          While the 1.2 number doesn’t mean what you think it does, the good news is that as long as you isolate properly from your family in the house you have a very good chance of not spreading it to anyone. AND based on your description above of your exposure, it does sound relatively unlikely that you got infected (though I agree that you should still be treating yourself as “exposed”…it’s a cumulative 15 minutes in 24 hrs, and that is regardless of masks or no masks).

        2. I am still surprised that it isn’t way higher. Presumably everyone is out and about at least somewhat before they get sick or a test result. Many people live with roommates or family. Like that the number was ever <1 was amazing (which it was here for a while), unless perhaps that isn't really the case b/c not everyone can get tested (or if you heard over the summer" wait 7 days to get tested and you'll get the results in 3-5 days, or just stay home for 14 days, you don't even bother with the test b/c why bother if you don't have symptoms).

          1. There is still so much that is not known about COVID. It is still a new disease and the people who research and figure this stuff out have been treading water, doing what they can to keep people alive. From a scientific perspective, it will be interesting once it all calms down and more can be done to better understand the variability about who gets it can, who transmits it, and why there is such a variety of disease severity.

    8. One additional suggestion: crank up the heat and open your windows.

      Good luck!

  19. For those of you who’ve had anxiety/depression — can you talk about the physical symptoms? I obviously know that people are nervous/weepy, sleepless or sleepy, no appetite or eating a lot more. But are there other symptoms like headache, chest pain (or heaviness not so much pain), dizziness?

    Elderly grandfather is experiencing these second set of symptoms and a LOT of doctors are saying anxiety/depression. I am inclined to believe them because he’s seen a primary care but also cardio, neuro etc. as we were trying to make sure it wasn’t a situation where symptoms were ignored and then drs said oh depression; all the major testing has been done. My family OTOH (of a culture where mental health isn’t considered real) goes back and forth and is like nah this CAN’T be anxiety/depression who gets a headache with that.

    Grandpa is 100% a worrier — has been his whole life. And how he’s at the point where he doesn’t want to or feel he needs to do anything so poor elderly grandma is being run ragged as he sits on the sofa playing with his phone; he says he never feels well anymore but honestly when he’s watching tv or on his phone he seems ok. I do think he’s de conditioned so now it IS physically harder to to do tasks that require standing for more than 5-10 minutes or he just doesn’t feel as comfortable doing them. So are these symptoms or should we keep looking towards more drs?

    1. Yea those are. He should be taking medication for depression and anxiety. Like his doctors probably already said

    2. Yes. Chest pressure and chest pain, as well as exhaustion, are how I got diagnosed for anxiety.

      I didn’t believe it for a year, but the symptoms went away when I went on citalopram and got through the first several modules of CBT.

    3. Definitely anxiety. It can manifest itself in a lot of different ways, especially in people who aren’t comfortable saying it’s anxiety. There was an article about how the chief complains for older black women with depression was back pain – depression manifesting as back pain instead of your grandpas which is coming out in other ways

    4. Here’s a link to an article that’s a little academic but may help. (You mention your family’s culture, so I assume it originated overseas. Please forgive me if I misunderstood this). Apparently in certain cultures depression is perceived/presented as physical symptoms vs. psychological ones. So his American doctors are saying depression, but he’s saying he has a headache or his back hurts. It’s two sides of the same coin. The same pill should treat both parts of the problem – perhaps if it’s presented to him not as a “mental health” pill but as a “this will help you feel better” pill.

      https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM199910283411801

      1. It would be very unethical for a physician to do this. Informed content is important and patients need/deserve to understand why they are taking a drug. Tricking a patient into taking any drug is beyond wrong.

          1. Really? She said to tell him the pill is to ‘help him feel better’ and not mention the mental health part of it. That is not informed consent and is unethical. If she means to fully explain that the meds may help the physical symptoms by addressing the depression, that is a different situation and is not what is written.

  20. HI Elizabeth – you mentioned the size chart, but when I click on that in the Amazon link, it says a size chart is not available for the leggings. Help! They look really warm & they are cheap af so I’d love to buy, but want them to fit.

  21. Is there a free site that can crowdsource my furniture layout? I’m struggling to figure out what to do in my living room. It has a large fireplace as a focal point, and we mounted the TV over that, but the doorways to other rooms are making it very awkward. Its also a fairly large room, so even with a sectional in front of the fireplace we’ve got an empty corner. I’ve seen lots of sites where I can upload pics or dimensions and arrange furniture myself, but I would like suggestions from others.

    2. Apartment therapy used to have a help column with comments for furniture placement, but I don’t know if it’s still active.

  22. What do you wear to make your way around the yard in this kind of heavy snow? Do you wear baggy ski pants over leggings/long underwear? Something else? Do you have snowshoes?

    1. The yard? Literally whatever. Probably fleece-lined jeans, warm socks, and boots. But you’re at your actual house, so whenever you get too cold, you can just go inside and warm up and dry off.

      (This from a woman who pushes the recycling bins to the curb in barefeet in any weather above 15 degrees, but still.)

    2. I guess it depends on what type of activity. In heavy snow I only go outside to shovel snow or check the mail. For for former, I wear leggings and these tall Kamik boots. They are slip on and I think they were made more for rain than snow, but they work to keep my feet dry. Also my knee length parka, hat and gloves.

      1. Hahaha! I love all the “what kind of gear do I need to do barely anything in cold weather?” questions

        1. Fleece tights has been resurrected! “What kind of gear do I need to walk around the block?” “What kind of specialized shoes do I need to walk .3 miles?”

        2. When Christmas is coming, you’ve got the COVID 15 hanging around…and you’re suddenly faced w/snow up to your thighs and it is going to be 2 degrees at night…Well, you feel a little trapped. Especially since we are facing another possible shutdown here…

          2. I feel like I need…like a bathing suit…A bathing suit for snow. I feel like I could swim in it easier than walk in it.

            PS-I also have Reynaud’s. AKA COVID toes in winter.

          3. Are people asking this people who grew up in Arizona or Hawaii and suddenly got transported to Maine or Minnesota just last week? How do people live in cold climates and not figure out how to put clothing on? I’m moving to a warm climate and I expect to be able to figure out how to take clothing off.

          4. Well you have to know which clothes and which shoes. Hence, all the questions. It is okay for other people to ask questions you already know the answers to.

        3. I love them for a different reason – I don’t know what gear I need to do anything in cold weather! I grew up in LA. Transplanted to the Midwest, but in my years of car commuting from garage to garage and spending leisure time indoors I never learned the most basic things about existing in the cold.

    4. If I’m playing in the yard with my kids I’ll throw on some rain pants over whatever I’m wearing to stay dry.

    5. My “yard” is two acres and the snow is DEEP out there. It’s up over the windows and I’ve never seen that before. I’m afraid to walk on my street, because I live on a hill and there are a lot of new families and new construction/vehicles (dump trucks, delivery trucks) which may not be exercising caution, particularly in this weather. I don’t want to get hit out there, so it looks like I’m stuck in the yard or the driveway…

      I’m wondering if this kind of snowfall will be a trend this year.

    6. What are you doing outside? I can’t imagine why you’d need snowshoes unless you’re patrolling the perimeter of your grand estate or something.

    8. I’m beginning to wonder if this isn’t the same dude with all the questions about button-up shirts and what not. The interest in winter attire is a bit… excessive?

      1. I think it might be, actually. There’s an unhealthy interest in leggings in particular – which are a common fetish item in some gross circles.

        1. unlikely — the pattern with the button-up troll was different. (they would attach an email address so they could make 1 or 2 seemingly on-point comments and then once cleared from the constraints of moderation they would say something totally crazy or sexual based.) plus those first few comments were generally the first the “commenter” had ever made on this site.

          thank you for reading!

      2. No, it is actually not. I haven’t been reading regularly, so I guess I missed that one.

        I never had decent winter gear as a kid…I would get other people’s old coats and mismatched things with whatever dumb, ugly boots that my parents picked up from KMart. In my 20s, I wore ballet flats and my white J. Crew plaza coat EVERYWHERE like an idiot. Now, I have some decent coats and boots for going to Target on a cold day, but not for being stuck in the sticks with nowhere to go until sometime next year.

        I already went through the phase of having to buy spring and summer COVID gear for venturing outside (of the suburbs), and now I guess I need winter COVID gear…

        1. Seems like you think you were deprived of good gear as a kid…I had boots from Kmart, jeans, a “winter jacket” that I had to wear for any activity and mittens that my gram knitted…and I spent 8 plus hours a day sledding and making snowmen. Gear doesn’t make you outdoor capable…put some warm shoes and clothes on your body and get outside! It’s not hard!

          1. Perhaps being at home for so long has caused my OCD/anxiety to spread to new areas. Perhaps I’m somewhat of a priss.

            Still, I have memories of the “cool girls” in my class telling me that I should have been embarrassed when the teacher announced my boots being in the Lost and Found, because then everyone knew they were mine. Then there was my best friend and her matching LL Bean outfits for the winter, or my other best friend whose mom literally went to fashion school…

    9. I don’t what kind of “heavy snow” you are experiencing. But from someone who grew up with minus 15 celcius in an inland non-windy area as the normal (going down to minus 30):

      Yes. Ski pants over long underwear is great.

      Yes. Get proper shoes. Bigger than normal (two pairs socks, warm sole), waterproof, non-slippery sole.

      If your snow is a fluke, make do. If your non-experience is the problem, get gear.

  23. isolation question: for those who have quarantined in a shared home – any tips to share? We have a friend moving countries to start a job, and isolating in our guest room with their own bathroom for the 2 weeks after the plane trip. It’s a spacious room with space for yoga or similar, and I added an electric kettle, tea and snacks. I’ll be able to make the meals for them and leave them at the door, and planning to go for masked walks outside as well. After a week, we’ll see if we can get a test somewhere. Any suggestions to improve safety or comfort?

      1. +1. No walks outside, even masked, if you want to do an actual quarantine. I saw an Instagram personality who had active COVID taking her dog to the dog park and it was just so irritating.

      3. Hmmm … there’s a difference between “going out of my apartment into city streets where I am exposed to people despite best intentions” and “walking around a suburban or rural neighborhood where I am easily extremely far from any person at all times and no one is going to be exposed to anything I’ve just breathed out.”

        1. You’re not wrong, but there is also a difference of degrees between the standard social distancing we do out of caution everyday, and a more strict quarantine that follows from a potential exposure like a plane trip. The latter should be treated as if the person in question were infected, to really fulfill its purpose.

  24. Any idea if these fleece lined leggings attract pet hair? I had a cheap pair years ago, and I had to get rid of them because they were such a pet hair magnet!

  25. Can anyone who’s been by lately say if the Jefferson Memorial in DC is under construction or if it’s open and pretty for photographs? Thanks!

  26. I think I am going to “break up” with my best friend tonight. He is planning to fly to California to race cars over Christmas. I thought he was kidding, I asked if he was aware that CA ICUs are full and the public health authorities are begging people not to do what he is planning. He said that he was aware and still going.

    He thinks that “the trade between (COVID) risk exposure and joy from seeing family and racing cars nets out positive.” He “rejects being shamed” but he is willing to talk through this at 6pm today (“rational arguments work well with me.”)

    What can I say to him? What SHOULD I say? My heart is breaking, because I expect to tell him that our friendship is over tonight.

    1. I think you don’t say much of anything. Tell him it hurts you to see him making poor decisions that are bad for him & everyone else around him & you’re not going to watch/listen/be party to his foolishness. Then peace out. Don’t tell him you’re not friends anymore or never speaking to him again — that just makes it about you & he can claim you’re overly dramatic. Just voice your dissent & go. I’m sorry. This is really hard. But he doesn’t care about anyone in this scenario & sadly that includes you.

    2. Where is he planning to stay? I thought hotels couldn’t even take short term guests.

      Also he’s totally not open to changing his mind, and if you talk to him tonight he’s just going to try to make you feel like crap.

      1. Good catch. He’s 100% planning on telling OP she’s “irrational” as evidenced be his supposed willingness to listen to “rational arguments.”

        1. That phrasing bothered me too. It means “FYI I plan to dismiss everything you say since you’re upset, and probably also not as smart as I am.”

    3. Don’t try to convince him. You won’t be able to and it’s just going to be painful for you. You can text “I’m shocked at your decision given all the evidence in front of you. Happy holidays” and then just drop talking to him for a while. I wouldn’t make an announcement that the friendship is over. Just let it die.

      1. Ikr? “Rational arguments work well with me” – and yet the staggeringly awful reports coming from public health departments and hospitals had no impact? I bet this guy also argues that men are the more logical and rational sex.

        1. Rational arguments obviously don’t work on him! “The ICUs are full” is the only argument you need to decide to avoid travel in a pandemic to do a risky activity like car racing.

    5. “Rational arguments work well with me.” Ugh, this guy sounds like a sexist jerk, if you need another reason to ditch him.

    8. Following public health guidance is rational. He is an irrational nutjob and I wouldn’t waste your time.

      1. Holy eff you see kay! That’s some B.S. right there. Our hospitals are full, elective surgeries are canceled, and if he has an accident racing his little cars he will either (a) not have a bed, or (b) take one away from somebody who needs it through no fault of their own.

        He is a horrible person if he does this and you are right to break up with him. And he is gaslighting you with the whold “rational arguments” thing.

    9. Which region in California? This is likely in violation of the local and state stay at home orders. If you let us know where we can point you to them.

      1. Oh it is DEFINITELY in violation of the local and state SAH orders. He is going to a spot outside San Fran. Staying with his sister and her husband. He did the same over Thanksgiving (!).

        I already sent him a link to the CA specific orders off the NYT website.

    10. “rational arguments work well with me”
      omg launch this dude into the sun, he sucks

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