ByElizabeth Hours Updated
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Frugal Friday’s Workwear Report: Floral Embroidered Tee

Our daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices.

In an attempt to liven up my work-from-home wardrobe recently, I’ve been trying to challenge myself to wear things that haven’t been worn in months. If I wear something for the day and realize that there was a reason I hadn’t worn it (uncomfortable, ill-fitting, etc.), it goes straight into the “donate” pile.

There have been a lot of castoffs over the last few weeks, but one item that has gone from the back of the closet to my regular rotation is a pretty flowered tee that I bought years and years ago, very similar to this one from Ann Taylor. I like the tiny print for livening up an otherwise basic black shirt, and a crewneck tee is about as comfortable as you can get without falling down the rabbit hole into pajama territory.

This shirt is $59.50 full price, but right now you can get 70% off one full-price item with the code FORMOM. (They're also offering 50% off almost everything else on the site.) The top comes in sizes XXS–XL. Floral Embroidered Tee

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372 Comments

  1. Elizabeth, this is such a cute tee shirt! I will spruce up my wardrobe with this one but I will use it not only for work from home, but also for Friday’s once we go back to the office! I can’t wait! I want to alert the hive that I wound up meeting a guy on the checkout line @ Fairways. Keeping my 6 feet distance, he said I should buy uncooked steaks like he does rather then prepared steak the way I do. I could tell he was just saying that to get my attention, so I told him that I often do buy uncooked steak, but that I was in a hurry and did not have time to cook that day. He said he had a great recipe for steak marinade, so I asked him about it, and he said he would text it to me, so I gave him my digits. Well, he was not kidding b/c he did text me a marinade that I will try. Well, one thing led to another, and we agreed to meet in the park this weekend (keeping social distance, of course). I will keep the hive up to date. The only caveat–his name is Frank, and I already work with a guy with that name. That is not a plus b/c the Frank I work with is a dirtbag. FOOEY! Hopefully this guy will be better. I worry tho b/c we can’t get any closer until after the virus, and my inner thoughts have led me to want to do so with this Frank. But this is at least a start! YAY!!!

  2. My annual work anniversary just passed, which would normally be when salary changes would be discussed. I work for a company that has been pretty heavily affected by the economic impact of the Coronavirus. We are at reduced salary with furloughs possible. I am in a senior role, and pretty safe job-wise unless the whole company shutters its doors.
    Obviously this is not the most appropriate time to be having a discussion about salary increases. I also don’t want to let a ton of time pass, because I will be going on maternity leave this fall for 3 months.
    I can’t really have the discussion now because they clearly have payroll issues, baby is due in less than 3 months, and then 3 months of maternity leave, puts me at the end of the calendar year before it seems feasible to even have that discussion again.Just returned from maternity leave does not seem like the strongest negotiating position, but it seems like my only option assuming the economy is not still in the pits at that point.
    Am I missing another option here? It’s all pretty terrible timing, but I don’t want to let it slip to my work anniversary next year. Of course having a job, even without an annual salary increase, is better than nothing.

    1. If you’re at reduced salary with furloughs possible, I think it’s going to be seen as pretty tone deaf to ask for an increase. When you are back to work, if there is an assignment of new job duties as a result of lay offs, then there might be an opportunity.

    2. Nope. You aren’t getting a raise this year extremely obviously. Sounds like you’ll be lucky to keep your job!

    3. If you had achieved a workload milestone (won a big account etc.) or were taking on a bunch of new load for one reason or another, or something else that doesn’t recur like clockwork & therefore if you didn’t get the raise now that you would normally get for it the memory of that for leadership may fade; then my advice would be different (I would say something like, I know this isn’t appropriate now, but I hope we can revisit the impact of this for comp later when things normalize..).

      But… just a standard annual raise because that’s normally what happens? Sorry, but given the situation described I would leave it alone. It could risk coming across really tone deaf. At my co. there are definitely years where they freeze the whole co. from annual raises. This is not something that is a given.

    4. You aren’t getting an increase this year. Come on – your company has reduced salaries and furloughed staff. No one is getting an increase this year. You’ll be lucky to get one next year.

      My company has also done salary reductions and RIFs/furloughs. I fully anticipate that I will get no raise and no bonus in 2021 (or a fraction of prior years). And we are doing well, relatively speaking – earnings are solid given the circumstances, etc. But there’s just no way.

    5. I don’t think you can do this without coming across as very out-of-touch with reality. Is it fair? No, it’s not. It genuinely sucks. But I do not think this is the time to be self-advocating for an annual raise unless you really want to p!ss off your bosses.

      1. Agreed. Also, if layoffs are coming, someone who asked for a raise right now “just because that’s what usually happens” would definitely get moved to the top of the list to be laid off.

        Keep you head down, do good work. And look, if things are substantially better this time next year, and you’ve hit some milestones, maybe ask for a larger raise than normal? Same thing if it’s not better until 2022.

      2. +1 however, I would make yourself a file of the things you would use to advocate for a raise this year if it were in the cards and keep it handy for next years’ discussion.

        1. Thank you. It is definitely out of touch to bring up right now,and I realize it’s not a valid option. It just sucks that I likely didn’t advocate well enough for myself last year when I got a promotion and left money on the table.
          I’m planning to do a much better job this year logging all of my achievements and really lobbying for a raise, *when appropriate and our jobs aren’t at risk* vs just accepting what is offered.
          It’s hard to admit that when you are finally ready to push for your worth this crazy situation makes it so you can’t. Of course goal #1 is to have a job at the end of this, and I’ll swallow my pride and do everything to make that reality.

          1. Yeah, it’s rough, but unfortunately, this is not a good time. I say this as someone whose 2020 raise kicked in on March 1st, and whose salary was then reduced on March 30th (at least with the raise + reduction I’m basically back to my old salary, so I can’t really complain I guess). And I won’t be getting a bonus this year either.
            But you should absolutely be listing all your accomplishments for when the time comes.

          2. I don’t know if this helps cushion some of the blow. But I try to remember that those with highest salaries also are most vulnerable to taking pay cuts. It’s also a time when companies are likely to look at highest paid and see if there is any fat to trim. Had you gotten the raise last year, it likely would just be rolled back soon or make you more vulnerable now. I’m in the same situation as well–my review is July and I’ve basically taken on another job on top of my normal one over the past year–frequently working until 11 or midnight at a place where folks working after 5 are rare, knowing this was going to be “my year” to move up from director. The reality is that we should be just glad to have jobs right now if indeed not only a recession but depression is in the cards. But it’s still frustrating. It’s not about swallowing pride though or kicking yourself for doing something wrong. It’s the reality that the world has changed. All you need to see are the lines at food banks on the news to realize that it isn’t the time to be trying to get more when your company is laying people off. Heck, I’d take a cut despite all of the hard work I’ve put in if it would help keep a colleague from being laid off.

          3. Yeah it totally sucks. Definitely use this as an opportunity to build up your “case” for next year though (and a lesson to just keep that file open and add to it throughout the year so you’re always prepared when salary negotiations come up!)

    6. Soooo this is when I can tell who was not working in a professional context during the last recession, in 2008-09, because I think if you had been working during that time it would be clearer to you what’s going on. Many companies during that recession just stopped compensation increases, period. There was no money for them. Some companies even stopped doing annual reviews because they didn’t see a point in doing a review when there was no money to offer people even some kind of raise. I am going to just point out, you say you are at “reduced salary” already. So, think about it logically: if they don’t even have the money to pay you your normal salary, how could they commit to paying you *more* than you normally make?

      “I can’t really have the discussion now because they clearly have payroll issues”

      If they are having “payroll issues” – like they are having trouble making payroll every two weeks (or whatever) I would worry less about whether or not you’re getting your raise this year and worry more about how much longer you’re going to have a job. Like, work on your resume. Because the last thing to go in a dying company is payroll – business owners will try to keep paying people until the bitter end. When the money to make payroll is gone, most likely there is no money anywhere to continue operations. Another thing that happened in 2008/09 is that companies would hang on and hang on and hang on and then fold overnight, leaving the employees to wonder “what happened?” What happened is the company flat-out ran out of money. Business owners will hang on with their fingernails to the bitter end and try to make it seem to the employees like good news is just around the corner. When in fact the writing is on the wall and the company is a dead person walking.

      I am not saying this directly at you but I am going to say this for people out there who have never lived through a time like this in the workplace: right now there are bigger issues and more complex problems than how you folks feel about what you’re getting paid, your performance rating, etc. There were people early in the Great Recession who *quit jobs* because they didn’t want to take paycuts. And then found out there were no jobs anywhere and 50% of a paycheck is better than zero pay. Take it from an Old who has been there: now is a good time to put your head down, work hard, don’t complain, step into responsibilities that are not technically your job, be a team player, and otherwise demonstrate you are worth keeping. Taking an attitude of “but what about my raise/bonus” is not going to serve you right now. At. All. OP, I understand your explanation of the timing. I would spend your energy making contingency plans on what will happen if your company either lays you off or shuts down entirely during your maternity leave. What’s your next move at that point?

      1. Thanks, this is really great context. You are right, I’m a “young” who was still in school during the previous Recession and have no professional experience in times like this. It’s hard to know now how deep and how long the recession is going to last, since the cause is so different than before. Perhaps that makes it even more critical to just keep your head down and plan for the worst.
        I am certainly worried about not having a job to return to post maternity leave. Stuck between a few rocks and a hard place with the timing of everything.

        1. thanks so much to anon 9:58 and OP for posting this question! I am in the exact same position, and graduated college in 2008 so I am also “young” and inexperienced on how to get my way through a recession. Anon’s insight is REALLY helpful so thank you.

          I’ve also been KILLING in my job for the last 365 and clients are so happy with me and my review comes up in a month and I’m so bummed that as much as I can advocate for myself (don’t lay me off!), I won’t be getting compensated at where I think I should be (Mediocre White Male Vibez!)

      2. Yeah, I didn’t get a raise for what? Four years? In the Great Recession. And I was just freaking happy to have my job the whole time, and petrified about losing it for most of the time.

        1. +1. I got VERY minimal raises during that time, but the only way people really got *BIG* raises was to move companies. I did interview for somewhere between 3-5 companies during that 4-yr period, and got to final stages but lost out to others because there were SO many candidates. It stunk, but at least I kept my job, benefits, and moved up in seniority at the end of it, which was WAY better than a lot of my peers did.

        2. +1
          In 2008 I lost my job.
          In 2020 I took a 10% paycut and will likely get no raise and a minimal (if any) bonus next March (when normally my bonus is 30% of base).
          I’ll take 2020, thanks!

    7. In my experience, annual raises also come with annual reviews as in they are both done at the same time. Are you having an annual review this year? I work for a very large company and even with the state of the world right now, they would never, ever skip doing an annual review. I’d broach the subject to my boss as “I was just curious if we would be having annual reviews this year or if they have been postponed? As you know, I will be going out on maternity leave in 3 months then on leave for 3 additional months, so I want to make sure I do not miss my review.”

      I feel like that isn’t as tone-deaf as “are we getting raises this year?”. If you are’t having an annual review, I would definitely do as others have mentioned above and keep good track of your accomplishments for next year’s review/raise.

    8. Just sympathy. I am also a young grad–work in higher ed fundraising. I took a huge step up professionally about two years ago, and I’ve achieved some major goals. This is a point in my career where–pre-pandemic–I was poised to advocate for a potentially big raise and title change at annual reviews in April. Now, my employer has frozen pay and likely downsizing to come. Although I know how lucky I am to have a job, I’m still very disappointed.

  3. Gah, 70% off. These retailers are making me sad with these huge sales.

    But this is a really cute shirt!

    1. The tortoiseshell pumps I’ve been lusting after are now … $38.
      Literally no need for them – but oooh they’re pretty.

      1. But the tortoiseshell block-heeled sandals – now those I could make use of!

      2. I have those tortoiseshell pumps…

        They look amazing with 90% of everything – love them with navy and they look amazing with an oxford/popover shirt, tailored jeans, and statement earrings. It might possibly be my go to power-casual look.

          2. And I wore them to the office yesterday because why not? Even though nobody sees me.

      3. Ha, I was lusting after those tortoiseshell pumps forever and finally pulled the trigger on buying them in like, February. They are beautiful, and until I read this post I forgot I now owned them. Hopefully one day I can wear them again…

        1. I went to go see what the fuss was about the pumps (gorgeous, I get it), and I was reminded that I bought the tassel, heeled loafers right before this started too…

          1. I love the pumps..Are they comfortable? I have normal to wide-is feet.

      4. I have them, I love them, and I’m about to buy another pair at $38 so that I have a spair pair when this pair wears out.

        1. Too funny, I bought a second pair as well! Brown pumps and navy pumps appear at random intervals and when they do I stock up.

      5. I bought the sandals. They’ll go with all of my summer going-out outfits …. even if I don’t get to wear them until next year.

      6. Is there a link by chance for the pumps and sandals? I’m in the mood for some shoe shopping!

    2. I’m waiting for the grab bag full of your size for $100 sale. I’d probably do it? Or is that what TJ Maxx is for.

  4. I have a friend celebrating a milestone birthday in Detroit soon, and I’d like to get her something to cheer her up re spending it alone during the pandemic. Recommendations for a florist or something else local, or generally appreciated. She’ll be 40, single, no kids, avid reader, pretty healthy (food/exercise wise).

    1. No Detroit specific recommendations but just wanted to say that you are a good friend for doing this. I turned 40 early this week and while DH was great and the kids made cute stuff, I just basically got text messages from friends. Wasn’t expecting anything major but a few cards would have been nice. Especially sad about the friend whose daughter’s birthday was the week before and I made an effort to drop off a card and gift in their mailbox.

    2. How good of a friend are you? Meaning, are you close enough to her that if you were in the same city you’d ordinarily be celebrating the birthday together? If so, I’d invite her to “lunch” or “dinner” on that day; send her a restaurant meal and eat with her over Zoom over something. So that she at least has some kind of “party.”

      As a single woman well past the age of a young woman’s “friend group,” too often friends assume that someone else is the one close enough to do the Big Birthday thing with me . . . and nobody ends up offering anything. I’m left with trying to generate my own party, which always seems too sad to try to pull off. (I know that others are able to plan and host their parties easily for their own Big Birthdays, but it’s a very sad thing for me, and I haven’t been able to manage to make myself do it.)

    3. Do you know where in Metro Detroit? There are a lot of local wedding florists doing bouquets right now – I can recommend a few that I know of but delivery might vary based on her city. If you want to send her food, a few of the nice restaurants are doing curbside takeout where you cook the meal at home so it stays fresh. Takoi, Mabel Grey, Shewolf, Flowers of Vietnam are a few off the top of my mind. I can give more suggestions if you’d like!

    5. Where in Detroit is she – city or suburbs?
      If shes in Dearborn- the cakes at Gateaux Patisserie are gorgeous. If she’s in Plymouth or closer to Ann Arbor, Sweet Heather Ann is lovely- their olive oil orange almond cake is a favorite of mine. If she’s in Birmingham/Bloomfield/Troy, my go-to is the Townsend Bakery but theyre closed – I believe Blossoms florist is still open and delivering .

      2. I came here to say Blossoms is your best bet for flowers near Birmingham. They are simply the best.

    6. For a local florist specifically, we always use Viviano’s Florist. They are still making contactless deliveries, although they are booked up through Mother’s Day. You can also get a special delivery from Zingermann’s. Other recommendations available based on area/city, if you want to share.

      1. Also, there is a terrific little local bookstore we have been ordering from: literati book store. They have great staff recommendations and fast shipping.

  5. Hi, can anyone speak to the brand 525 America (specifically their sweaters) and how they fix sizewise and the quality. I believe Stitch Fix carries them…

    2. For me they fit true to size and quality seems fine, although nothing particularly fancy. I had a couple a few years ago that I bought at a small boutique that in hindsight were overpriced, but I have one now that I bought from nordstrom rack that I like – was maybe $30? Not sure that I’d pay more than $50-70 for something by them.

  6. Recommendations for gift cards for a bereaved colleague? One of our executive assistants lost her husband this week, and in addition to a physical card, I’d like to send her a gift card (by email).
    Would food delivery be best? Local flower shop gift card that she can use for herself/his grave? Photo service gift card to frame a nice picture of him?

    1. I vote food delivery, always useful. The photo service card might take too much effort for a newly grieving person, and probably she is overloaded with flowers.

      1. Yeah, I’m not going to send flowers. My thought was that maybe I can get her a gift card from the flower shop in her town so that she can get something nice later.

    2. I was really touched by the food delivery gift card from a far away friend when my dad died. She said she’d bring a casserole if she was closer and ordering with the card felt like getting her casserole (nothing beats home cooking from a friend during tough times).

        2. One of the companies that delivers for lots of restaurants. I was at a place where paying for food delivery was easy to include in my budget, but the thought of a friend “sending a casserole” meant so much to me.

      1. I like the Panera idea. They have free delivery now during the pandemic and they serve both healty things like salads and soups and comfort items like pastry, so she can choose which of those she needs (or both). When my dad was in and out of nursing homes a couple of years ago, I spent a fortune (as much as or more on delivery charges and tips than on the cost of the food) to send him pecan rolls and good coffee from Panera, but it made him happy.

    5. Another vote for food delivery. When my dad died we received lots of beautiful flowers, and that was nice but the food deliveries made my mom feel taken care of, which was important to her.
      Also, I still miss and think about my dad every day. It would be a nice idea to put a reminder in your calendar to check back with your colleague in x months to tell her you are thinking about her and remembering xyz she said about her husband/whatever memory you have of their relationship and wishing her well and letting her know her situation is not forgotten. We got so much support around his death and that was 7 months ago and nothing really now. Which is fine and understandable, and I am not mad about it, but I would love to hear from someone telling me they are thinking of my dad and remembered him for whatever reason and isn’t it sad he is gone and they hope I am doing okay.

      1. So much this. My dad died a few years ago. I treasure the occasional outreach about my dad and wish there was more. I was too busy around his death (managing his care and then his estate fell to me) to really appreciate condolences.

  7. Low-stakes work/covid question I have been thinking about:
    Do you have a way of acknowledging the current situation when contacting people you don’t talk to frequently? This seems to be the norm in my contacts. I have been using, “I hope you are staying safe and well in this difficult time,” but would like some other go-to phrases.
    An issue I would never have imagined a few months ago…

    1. I e-mail more than call (everyone is WFH, which can be noisy if home is shared/small). I am using “How are THINGS?” and “How are you doing in this crazy world?”

      1. I use way more informal questions, too, and I’m starting a drinking game every time someone says “these difficult times” (not really, but it would be a good one….)

        1. “Now more than ever” – drink
          “We’re in this together” – drink
          “Unprecedented events” – drink
          “Look for the helpers” – finish your drink

    2. I have been opening e-mails with, “I hope this e-mail finds you well,” and have been receiving lots of e-mails with the send off, “I hope you and your family are staying well/staying safe.”

      3. I used to correspond with somebody from Korea who did this all along.

        I guess we’re all Korean now!

    3. Thanks for asking this, I’ve been wondering too! Here are my go tos:

      I hope you and yours are staying safe and healthy.
      I hope you’re well.
      Hope all is well.

      1. This is my list, right down to the “you and yours” construct – Who knows what someone’s family situation is for work contacts and that expression is old-fashioned but broad enough for any loved ones.

    5. I just used the sentence “In recognition of the unusual circumstances we all find ourselves in” while pointing out that I designated the place of their S-Corp’s annual meetings as virtual rather than at the company HQ.

      I think that’s my favorite so far.

  8. My employer’s biggest focus right now appears to be on getting everyone back to work on site. I work for a gov agency in an office of about 75. With the exception of certain hearings almost all of our work can be done remotely. There is absolutely no reason this shouldn’t continue while the pandemic runs its course. Is anyone else seeing something similar with their employer?

    1. Yep. We take up four floors in our building and they want everyone back in the office in the next three weeks. We’re a “family friendly” place to work. Schools are still closed and most summer camps are canceled throughout the summer. Almost everything can be done remotely.

      The COO has thought that this whole thing is kind of fake and overblown the whole time, so I’m not surprised. They did at least provide a set of safety guidelines that no one is following or enforcing, but it’s at least a CYA, I guess?

      1. OP here. It’s nice to know I’m not alone here. I love my job, just don’t want partake in everyone’s germs during the pandemic.

      1. I know I should just ignore the troll but if you read carefully, she is still working perfectly fine remotely. Her complaint isn’t about working. It’s about where she has to work. It literally makes no difference if she is in the government building or her house.

      2. I dont think this is fair. She’s not saying she doesn’t want to work. She’s saying she doesn’t want to work on-site due to safety concerns and almost all their work can be done remotely.

      4. She isn’t complaining about working, she’s wishing she could continue working from home, which is feasible for her particular job.

      5. This is a reading comprehension fail — no one is complaining about working, it is about going in to the office versus working from home. Try to keep up.

      6. People always say this about government employees, because they don’t actually know what government employees DO, except for the people they meet at the DMV.

        They also don’t seem to realize that ANYONE can apply for a government job. You don’t have to wait for an owl to deliver your letter from Hogwarts. If you don’t have the skills and experience the government wants, or you’d rather make more money than a government job offers, that’s on you. They just like to complain that someone has what they apparently see as a better, but unobtainable job, than they have.

      7. Ha! I actually snorted at this comment, but I’m not laughing with you. You’re obviously stirring the pot and/or a complete idiot.

    3. IDK but I am finding that I am going back into work for the most picayune tasks, ones that actually aren’t mine, but with no admins in the office it is now my job. Printing originals of opinions that need to be wet-signed. Dealing with original documents. E-sig laws are great but have some limits that aren’t helpful. And some government agencies never invested in technology on the front end and many don’t authorize electronic signatures (nor do some clients). I’ve learned more about that stuff lately than I ever cared to.

      1. I find that people who are deadbeats in the office are even worse when they are not in the office. If people do not respond to email, they should pick up the phone and if they don’t, then where are they? They cannot be out shopping all day, even for food, but I have difficulty understanding where my assistant is, b/c she is NOT assisting me. She has always been lazy, but this is rediculus. When she was dating Mason, she figured she could get by just b/c she was keeping him happy and his dad was a big cleint. But once he kept failing the bar and we had to cut him loose, she then had no one in her corner, and she stopped having s-x with him when he moved to Boston. So now she is more or less checked out, as I am getting my mail forwarded to me here @ home, as are the other partners.

    4. Just found out our department is reopening May 18th, and we are apparently expected to start going in again. In an area with lots of COVID (though getting better), and I am NOT HAPPY about this. At least I have my own office so I don’t have to wear a mask the entire time I’m there? :(

    5. I’m seeing a genuine disentigration in our workplace; we can do much of our work at home and it’s mostly getting done, but we’re also coming apart in ways I didn’t anticipate. If I were managing the whole company, I think I’d be seeing it even more. If this remote and isolated working were to drag on endlessly it would force us to deliberately change into a different kind of workforce/workplace. I would guess that there are many companies or even government departments that aren’t up for that kind of change.

      1. Yes — I find that people are “able to do their work” but randomly going AWOL and being non-responsive. It’s like they have forgotten how to work a bit and just go through the motions. For me, the analogy may be how I am a bit more accountable in going for a run if it is part of a group that notes by absence and encourages me to try harder to do my best. When I am regularly doing best practices, I am better even when running solo, but with just solo, eventually I do the minimum.

        1. Don’t forget, people went AWOL in the office too. You’d have doctor’s appointments, or go get coffee, or go to the bathroom. Just because someone isn’t available to you for an hour at home doesn’t mean they aren’t still working productively the rest of the day. We still take breaks for lunch.

          1. Be pro-active about it. We don’t have random appointments now and are at home, “working” or actually working. When people go unresponsive for an afternoon, it is very WTF maybe I give Katie an assignment next time and not Rebecca. I think you ghost in a pandemic at your peril.

      2. What do you mean by disintegration and coming apart? Just not communicating well?

      3. I’m genuinely interested in what you’re saying. When you say “we’re coming apart in ways I didn’t anticipate” – how do you mean? I think I am noticing something similar but I’m having a hard time articulating it or putting my finger on it.

        1. It’s almost like we’re all stressed and anxious and exhausted and not operating at 100% because of a deadly global pandemic that has completely upended our concept of normality rather than operating like perfectly optimized capitalist production robots.

          2. Honestly, don’t be sarcastic. It’s not helpful. Genuinely understanding what the issues are is part of the calculus of proposing solutions to fix them, so that people don’t have to be rushed to the office before it’s safe.

          3. “Before it’s safe” is sort of relative, no?

            I subjectively think that it is safe for me to go back to my office job (I have an office/door and am a hermit there anyway). But my city / state also think it is safe. And I think they have learned a lot in the 2 months they have been on this and have gotten better and thought more comprehensively over time (initially, I had concerns that they would stay closed forever b/c they had not thought through re-opening and they seemed to be caught flat-footed re nursing home outbreaks and were very distracted by that for a while).

            But if you’re not me, what would count as “safe” for you? Having recovered from it? Having antibodies per a test? Having had a vaccine? Having everyone else also having the vaccine (we routinely road trip to Asheville, which had a measles outbreak maybe in 2018 and maaaaybe has too many antivaxxers for me now)?

          4. Yeah, it is relative. And it’s going to depend on who you are, what you do, where you live, and a host of other factors. The point is, understanding the challenges of working from home and the benefits and finding ways to make it the best it can be gives people flexibility to potentially keep working from home if that is what’s required to keep them safe – for however long that may or may not be.

          5. Anon at 11:15, I’m the anon at 11:11 and I’m not being sarcastic.

            I’m saying there are massive mental health elements to what is going on right now, and to act like there’s not is part of the problem.

            It is part of the “calculus of proposing solutions” to take into account how mentally and emotionally exhausting this has been. To act like we’re all just being lazy slackers for not continuing perfectly optimized work right now is misguided. This is an extremely difficult, unprecedented situation.

          6. You are being sarcastic though. There is a perfectly non-confrontational and not rude way to express what you want to, and you’re choosing in more than one comment to be confrontational. And btw, I am not a person who thinks we should be acting like “perfectly optimized capitalist production robots”. Why is that your interpretation when someone wants to understand how to improve working from home?

        2. We are all working fine from home, more or less, although I think a lot of the random brainstorming that leads to new projects and ideas isn’t really happening. But what needs to get done is getting done.

          My work entity has its own building where about 2K people work. We were told that we MAY be going back June 1, but because my employer is reality-based and not a giant ass, leadership is encouraging a great deal of flexibility. So I imagine that anyone who can work from home will be continuing to work from home. Which makes me kind of sad, because I miss my coworkers, but very grateful to have a realistic employer.

          1. Brainstorming and innovation is definitely taking a back burner. We’re delivering on our plan from last year, but are not putting the collaborative hours into pushing the envelope for next years plan.

            God, I miss whiteboards.

        3. I’ll add my perspective. I’m a midlevel associate at mid-sized civil litigation firm, living in an 800 sq ft. apt with no home office.
          -I don’t have a printer so proof reading is harder, and it’s much harder to work with multiple documents. I purchased a large monitor because doing serious work on a 14 in laptop was a serious struggle, but haven’t felt like adding yet another expense/piece of equipment to the small table where I’m working.
          -It is difficult for me to mentally feel like I’m “at work” when I’m facing my living room and the balcony outside. If I’m doing an immersive task, like reviewing documents or drafting reports, it’s easier to focus. But smaller things that are not obvious, discrete tasks that need doing are falling by the wayside for me.
          -I had issues with remote access for days. Had to ask my admin to email me everything, or just try to work around it. Inefficient.
          -Lack of communication. I work for partners who are vague and hard to get a hold of under the best circumstances. Direction and leadership is not there. We’re expected as associates to “run the files” and the partners will oversee, but now the communication channels are even more fragmented.
          Now I can’t just pop by with a quick question and then keep working. Other attorneys are not available as easy, quick resources. (Am I going to call a junior partner who is juggling 3 kids to ask a civ pro question that I would otherwise just talk with him about while grabbing coffee? Probably not.) Everything from a quick status check to a lengthy strategy discussion must happen over email or phone. Emails don’t always get read or responded to in a timely fashion, so my progress is delayed. I don’t necessarily want to call the partners on their cell phones several times a day. As others have mentioned, there are no spontaneous conversations that lead to idea generation or mentoring/lawyer development. Some of it is very intangible, but there’s a sense that we’re not all working together. We’re just working, sort of. There’s no tone or body language over email, either, which is just disconcerting after a while when your only communication is email.
          -General stress. I don’t even have kids and for reasons I’m not that worried about getting sick, myself. I realize I’m in a great place. But still, there’s the overall sense of doom. Little feedback from management as to how firm is doing, financially. Worrying about low hours. It takes much more energy and time for me to do the self-care I need to do right now, v. normal life. Normal life I can get by with HIIT classes 2x week and yoga on weekends. Now I need to do hard exercise every day and yoga or else. I also have to cook and keep a clean house, where I’d otherwise pick food up for many meals. Can’t work when I’m right next to dishes in my sink. I need to spend time talking to friends and family. I need to spend quality time with my SO. This is definitely impacting my productivity more than I expected: bill one more hour on something that isn’t urgent just because we need to bill, or go for a run so I don’t feel like I want to cry and snap at the littlest thing?

          1. This is so well said. I had been feeling terribly guilty for not being more productive — even when I don’t have kids, am healthy, and otherwise fine — and this perspective made me feel so much better.

      4. I’m anonymous at 10:19. We have great employees, and good, flexible bosses. This is not a complaint about my company.

        I’m seeing the AWOL and non-communicative that Anonymous at 10:32 mentions. Projects are stalling out and it’s hard to get momentum back on them. Some teams are drifting, especially the ones where the team leader managed mostly on the fly or through casual in-person conversations. Processes that used to run smoothly are lurching. Some people are increasingly disengaged during group Zoom calls as fatigue with that communication style is setting in. If we had people whose job descriptions weren’t entirely clear (we’ve had a lot of transition recently) or were a slight misfit for their jobs, now they are even more unclear about what they should be doing.

        It’s like we’ve all shifted into being self-employed contractors with home offices, and that requires a whole different workstyle and a lot of personal, internal initiative to sustain (I’ve worked that life, and it was an adjustment). It’s a really different way of life, and it’s not ideal for a lot of people.

        1. Thank you for this genuine response. I’m the anon from 10:51. What you’re saying makes sense to me and I think it explains some of what I’m feeling and seeing, but haven’t been able to describe well.

          1. +1M to the last para — it’s like everyone became an independent contractor and some are much better than others (so if you want to stay remote longer than usual, pls pls pls be very very good at it before you raise your hand).

        2. Honestly, I’m one of those people you’re talking about. I was just as productive at first, and now I’m struggling to move projects forward and am increasingly distracted at home. (My husband is handling childcare, but they’re still home.) And my bosses have an on-the-fly leadership style consisting of mostly spontaneous interactions. At first, they were scheduling zoom meetings and check-in calls, and calling with questions and giving me assignments, but over the past few weeks, they largely stopped communicating about new stuff.

          My bosses decided our business was essential, even though we’re not, and they’ve been going into the office the whole time. I decided to start going in in the afternoons a few days a week. It’s really helped me get back on track. I have immediate access to my bosses, so work is flowing to me again. The sense of normalcy reduced some anxiety, and I’m no longer procrastinating on certain calls I needed to make. The quiet and lack of distractions in the afternoons helps me get focused work done, and small accomplishments help my motivation. Anyways, I know I’m taking a risk, and our family is trying to isolate as much as possible and wear masks otherwise in case I do get it through work.

          1. +1

            I started going into my pretty empty office for short stints after I wasted two hours just …staring into space and trying to motivate myself to do something, anything, on Tuesday. It’s been helpful.

        3. This is really well put. Thank you. It really describes something that I’d noticed but hadn’t been able to articulate.

      5. A lot of people are depressed – we are undergoing a collective trauma that involves tens of thousands of deaths.

      6. I think a lot of people significantly underestimate how much of their job is interactions with other people. Sure you may be more productive at writing xyz report at home where you aren’t distracted by anyone from the office. But – xyz report you prepared is missing abc nuance that you would have known if you were in the office because a colleague may have mentioned it in passing. Also it took twice as long to get qrp data from your staff because though they emailed you that things were going well since you weren’t in the same room you didn’t really get a sense of how they were struggling with it so weren’t able to step in and coach real time.

        Obviously some of this can be overcome with better communication practices but those don’t happen overnight. Also some of these depend on your role – maybe you don’t need anyone else’s input and that’s fine but not true for most of us.

        I think the informal coaching of less experienced team members will be the biggest casualty. There is so much they pick up by just being in the room with you and even though training may not be in your job description it is part of your job if you are a leader in any form (even if you’re just a few years into your career).

        I’m sure we could come up with better examples (and possibly solutions for all of them) and I’m not saying everyone needs to go back to the office now or maybe ever. I do think it would be easier to come up with solutions if we acknowledged the benefits our colleagues get from working near us and not just “I can do everything from home and I get no benefit from being in the office.”

        1. This.

          We have two newbies starting. I would love to defer them a year, but remote training them will involve maybe 2x effort on my part and get .5x in return. It’s mandatory though, because they will need to take over for someone going out on leave who is far senior to them, so it is what it is though. But they are d*mn lucky to be starting and I hope that they understand that they have weight to pull here and when everyone else is working a ton to keep things from blowing up that any “but I am doing in-the-park yoga at 10 since we’re WFH” or “I have to take my dog out now” is just not going to go over well. [This will also be their first job post-school and they never interned with us, so overall hoping that this goes well but it will take a lot out of me to get through the next year.]

        2. Yes, absolutely, all of this! There are absolutely benefits to working in an office, and while those benefits certainly do not outweigh the risks right now, it’s completely silly not to acknowledge them.

          1. Exactly. I highly doubt that this experience will lead many employers to considering full or majority WFH models. Hopefully it will encourage flexibility and employers will allow more WFH, but I think it’s inaccurate to make the blanket proposition that “people are just as effective if not moreso” when they work from home. Maybe if you’re looking at one day, or one day each week. Or even a few days. But it depends on a ton of factors and this can’t be extrapolated to a majority WFH model.

      7. Our upper management are claiming that they need everyone back in the office because productivity is suffering, but according to all our dept supervisors with access to our project management software, efficiency is through the roof. People are MORE productive without wasting endless hours in meetings listening to the higher ups bloviating. We are cranking out work like crazy. It’s really obvious that upper management are scared that their uselessness is starting to show.

        1. I’m not. I’m doing absolutely nada that isn’t mandatory and already late. Can’t motivate.

    6. My boss is clearly eager to get us back to work and is interpreting state guidelines in the least conservative way possible, but at least for now, we’re still at home. She’s actually been better than I expected throughout this, but I’m still frustrated that we can completely, 100% WFH efficiently and productively (and according to my supervisor, she and the other supervisors have observed that people are being highly productive) and we’re going to be pressured to go back into the office. Fortunately I live in CA and our state guidelines are evidence-based, meaning that we’re not allowed to go back yet legally.

      Also, there is definitely a trend among some employers to set up WFH to fail. “We have a crappy document management system that you can’t access from home – see, WFH sucks!!!” or “The VPN app we use is buggy and terrible – this is why we can’t WFH!” Super annoying and behind the times.

      1. That sounds a bit loco — I don’t think that employers set up WFH to fail. Most employers set it up in a panic and using what they had. I think that IT doesn’t deliver often in perfect in-office situations. Much less with no training (I remember when we had good in-person training; now it is “please read these bad documents” or “bad video to watch”). I’m honestly surprised it has worked as well as it has.

        1. Maybe your workplace is different from mine, then (and two of my friends’ offices), although I’m sure you’re right that there are plenty of employers who are truly doing the best they can. It just rankles to see these really negative attitudes about WFH when employers have this golden opportunity to be supportive during these unprecedented times at no real cost to them.

          1. But it’s not true that there is no cost — to being emotionally supportive, yes. But to get a new IT backbone now is unlikely because it costs $, and no one has extra of that now, and to get a system implemented now probably is unrealistic. And keeping the plates spinning has a cost — my spouse runs a helpdesk and IT team and they are frazzled after working 18 hour shifts 7 days a week to implement emergency remote working for a business with many different state/local laws in 3 time zones. I think you go to war with the army you have.

          2. “at no real cost to them.”

            I have watched my colleagues bend over backwards, both literally and metaphorically to get these systems set up as fast as humanly possible, all while people were complaining about how it wasn’t good enough and wasn’t fast enough. This is just not true that there is no cost. If you think good, functional systems can be set up overnight, you have your head in the clouds.

          3. That’s not what I meant. I meant that for businesses like mine that can literally do 100% of work from WFH, it’s frustrating to see them make subtle remarks and have negative attitudes about WFH when I’m busting my butt doing good work for them. What would cutting out the snark and “hey, you’re all doing great during these hard times” really cost them? It’s like my boss is determined to believe WFH sucks no matter what, even though we’re all producing great work on time and working well with each other over Zoom.

        2. My husband is in IT and he and coworkers have suggested several fairly easy fixes to their remote work connection issues. Bosses have literally said “no, we don’t want to make it too easy to work from home.”

          1. My husband and is IT and the ability to have only mandatory people onsite and the rest remote is what is keeping them from having zero revenue right now, so they are not skimping on IT at all. It needs to work or they can all go from “working at home” to “trying to file for unemployment at home”. Sadly. And when you want to see deferred IT spending, look for NJ’s asking for people with COBOL skills b/c their systems are that old.

          2. I think the difference is that my husband is IT for an “essential” business. IT can do and have been doing their jobs fully remotely, but his employer wants their butts in the office the minute the law allows them to.

    7. There are plenty of companies who choose to have remote employees. It is a deliberate choice and they have the infrastructure, culture, management, hiring practices, etc. to execute that plan. But, there are plenty of companies who don’t make that choice as standard operating procedure and suddenly had this massive shift thrust upon them. That doesn’t make them evil for at some point trying to get back to what they envision for how their company should operate.

          1. *during a global pandemic. I’m really not sure why that’s controversial or hard to grasp.

        2. I have noticed that you take the least generous interpretation possible in all scenarios. Honestly, it’s exhausting.

          1. What about my comment at 2:10 (or any other comment on this entire post) says that to you – or are you one of those posters who is determined to hate anything I say? I suggest not reading my comments if you’ve reached the BEC stage.

          3. I think Pure Imagination is trying to be fair; after all she lives in California and wants to fit in here, so let’s give her a brake. Beside’s I do not know anyone who wants to work in an office during a pandemic. Getting sick for the thrill of going into the office is not something I want to do. FOOEY on that!

          4. I just find your responses to be a bit extreme. My interpretation of this conversation is that posters are addressing some of the limitations of working from home/benefits of working from an office. Right now, I think many/most agree that the benefits of working from an office don’t outweigh the risks for most people in most places if working from home is possible. However, why are you so completely opposed to recognizing that there are some tradeoffs to working from home? “we can completely, 100% WFH efficiently and productively”. I mean, maybe that’s true for you, but I doubt it’s true company-wide almost anywhere for the reasons outlined above. Why not engage more actively in a nuanced discussion instead of interpreting things so black and white? Just my $0.02

          5. Am I not permitted to report what is happening with my job? Where did I say that every company everywhere can work 100% productively at home? I think you dislike me and that has led you to cherry pick my numerous posts on this topic, but your problems are not my problem. Have a great day!

  9. Hi! I’m hoping for some recommendations from people that don’t drink their tap water. I’m in NH where we have had a lot of cases of concerning contaminants in tap water and an unusually high amount of cancer cases that were being investigated by the state and the feds prior to the pandemic. I don’t know if it was in response to this issue or not but my municipality has done something different with our tap water and it now tastes really metallic and chemically but not really a chlorine taste. I’ve also noticed my stomach getting upset after drinking it.

    I switched to bottled water from our emergency stash for a few days and it tasted so much better and I felt better. Our kitchen faucet is one of those fancy detachable kinds with a sprayer so we can’t attach a Brita filter to it.

    I’m debating doing the fridge Brita pitcher or ordering one of those big water things you see in businesses that have the hot and cold water spigots. We have room in our kitchen for one. Alternatively, I could buy gallon jugs at the store but that seems wasteful and will take a lot of room in my fridge too. For those that don’t or can’t drink their tap water, what do you prefer?

    1. Can you get a reverse osmosis system hooked up to your sink faucet? The investment may be steep but I always feel bad about buying plastic gallons of drinking water (which may be tap water but from different locations in the US). We have high-iron tap water and the Culligan system we have is great.

      1. We have an RO system and water softener as well. I don’t remember how much it cost up front, but we’ve had it for around 10 years and are happy with it. There’s not a huge amount of maintenance either other than buying bags of salt and replacing filters once a year.

    2. We use a Brita pitcher in the fridge. We had an undersink filter attached to the taps at the last house and probably will install again when we do the kitchen reno we are planning. Undersink filters don’t affect your faucet and are a pretty simple plumbing job. DH grew up in a European country where they use UV light to decontaminate mountain spring water so his stomach can’t handle chlorine at all.

    3. Start with a Brita pitcher in the fridge — the simplest, fastest fix. Then move to another solution if that doesn’t work. For me, it’s all I need.

      My next plan, if I needed one, would be those water-refill stations at grocery stores; you buy your gallon jugs once and then fill them back up again.

      1. Oh! I haven’t been to the grocery store in so long I hadn’t even thought of those refill stations. Interesting.

    4. You could get a whole-house filtration system, but if they’re talking about carcinogens, I’d get on a delivery system for those giant blue water jugs (the office water cooler types).

    5. We had water quality issues where I grew up, and my parents put in a whole-house water filter. They aren’t cheap but when you filter the water where it comes in to the house, it’s clean for everything – cooking, washing clothes and dishes, showering, drinking, etc. I think they’re around $1,000 plus installation.

      We can’t put a filter on our kitchen faucet either so we bought an under-sink water filter that connects to the sink water supply and has a separate spigot that comes up through the countertop. My husband installed it for us, we didn’t need a plumber, but the previous owners of our house had had one at some point in the past, which made it easier. If your countertop or sink already has extra holes cut in it for a soap dispenser, the filtered water dispensers are easy to install and pretty cost-effective. Ours was $200 and then the filters, which have to be replaced every 3 months, are about $30. If you don’t already have a hole to install it in, getting a hole cut in your countertop is possible but may be expensive depending on what the countertop is made of.

      1. FWIW we are having a whole-house water filter installed and the cost is more like $3500. Near Boston.

    6. I’m sentimentally attached to my Brita. Our tap water is actually fine, but when I lived somewhere with awful tap water I got into the habit of drinking from the Brita instead, and now it’s too late to go back…

      2. Toronto has good tap water but we keep a large Brita in the fridge because both my son and I like water to be really cold.

    7. I had an extra large Brita pitcher for a long time. You didn’t pour out of it; it had a spigot. I really liked it.

      Growing up, we had the giant blue water jug that we filled up at the grocery store. If you have the room, it’s a good solution because you don’t have to fill it as muhch.

    8. We have a Berkey water filter and it is AWESOME. Ours was around $250 for a family size filter.

    9. Can you get a lab test of your tap water to see just what all is in it? A Brita fridge filter doesn’t really remove things that are dangerous, although it helps with high mineral and particulate filtering and can improve the taste. If something in the water is making you sick, though, you need to do more than a Brita filter.

    10. We have a filter under the sink and a special faucet that the drinking water comes out of.

    12. Unfortunately Brita filters are pretty much useless (just filter out chlorine) – and same for fridge filtration systems. We have a Berkey filter. The primary carbon filters are effective enough to filter stream/contaminated water, and there are other optional filters that can be added (e.g. flouride filter). They come in different sizes that you can choose depending on your/your household’s daily water consumption. It’s a good solution that’s a few hundred dollars but not as a big of an investment as a whole home filtration system.

  10. I’m surprised more people aren’t talking about this: there are several studies out in the last couple weeks linking vitamin D deficiency to seriously increased Covid mortality rates (estimates range from 2-20x), even when controlling for age, sex and other factors. It’s believed that almost half the people in the world don’t have optimal vitamin D blood levels, and it’s such an easy thing to fix. People who are older, male, dark-skinned, overweight and with underlying health conditions like heart disease and high blood pressure are all more likely to be vitamin D deficient…does that list sound at all familiar? It would also help explain why kids are mostly spared by this, despite having weaker immune systems than middle-aged adults, since kids are much less likely than adults to be vitamin D deficient. Anyway. I don’t think this is a magic cure that’s going to end the pandemic or anything, but to me it makes a lot of sense to start a supplement if you aren’t already on one and don’t know your vitamin D levels.

    1. It’s not being talked about because it doesn’t fit the narrative of we all have to stay home forever and vote by mail.

      Perhaps some of the people being recalled to work would feel a bit less anxious if they looked into this and stepped up their vitamin D intake.

      1. Gross. You don’t have to be this way – are you aware of that? Try harder to be a nicer person.

      2. I agree it’s not being talked about, but it’s not because it’s some liberal conspiracy because it doesn’t fit the narrative of staying home forever. How odd. The liberals are the ones who believe in science and medicine, you know.

          1. It is? How narrowly are you reading that you haven’t seen it? Every major newspapers is constantly updating re new studies on covid. I’ve seen the benefits of vitamin D referenced in tons of places but the relationship is less clear than that of obesity. If people want to reduce their risk, they should reduce their waistlines as a first response and worry about vitamin D after.

          2. Because the studies are very new, and they weren’t controlled in the sense that they compared a placebo to a vitamin D supplement. It’s entirely possible that it’s just correlation and not causation between vitamin D levels and coronavirus mortality. It will be interesting to see what happens in the next couple months though, because if this is causation and not correlation, we should see a major drop in death rates in the northern hemisphere in July and August as vitamin D levels peak naturally.

      3. Eeesh I wasn’t trying to make this political, I was just saying this is interesting research that deserves more attention than it’s getting, especially given how easy Vitamin D deficiency is to fix (much easier than losing weight, for example). My parents and lots of other people I talked to weren’t aware of it. For the record, I’m in favor of everyone being able to vote by mail, pandemic or not.

      4. Not trying to start a debate; genuinely curious. If vote by mail was to happen, both parties get to vote by mail, right? Why does vote by mail only help democrats? I’ve never understood this.

        1. Because historically higher voter turnout means Democrats win. Republicans typically do better when people stay home. They don’t want vote by mail because more people will vote.

          1. And they don’t want minorities, especially African-Americans, voting. It’s much easier to suppress the African American vote when there’s no voting by mail.

          2. Groups that always get to the polls (well-off, retired, etc.) often skew republican. Groups that trend democrat (working people, people of color, younger than retirement age) tend to skew democrat. As someone above said, higher voter turnout usually benefits democrats. Some would say this is why republicans have in recent yeras focused on (nonexistant) “voter fraud” and ID requirements as they want it to be harder to vote so overall turnout is lower.

          5. My grandmother died. I think that our (purple state; very blue area) voter rolls are so infrequently scrubbed (if ever) that I could probably vote her absentee for a good decade or two. I’m also not sure if you move to another state and get a license there, new state tells old state to cancel your voter registration in old state. Maybe not?

          6. Ok but your example is a reason to scrub voter rolls not say “oh well there’s a POTENTIAL for voter fraud, guess no one can ever vote absentee even though it would allow more people who historically haven’t voted to be able to”

        2. because all of the dead people on the books only vote democrat lol.

          In seriousness, I think in theory it’s not a bad idea, but in practice it is easier for people to lie cheat and steal their way to an election. Both political parties should be concerned with the transparency and fairness of the process. This is an interesting article about different considerations: https://www.lawfareblog.com/ten-recommendations-ensure-healthy-and-trustworthy-2020-election

          1. This. I think some guy obviously registered his pet or something and had the pet vote. The fraud is easy. And harder to spot/fix. And in my purple state, absentee vote by mail fraud is equal opportunity.

            Also,since we live in pretty jerrymandered districts anyway where the real race is the primary, I wonder how people will feel about vote by mail when they consider this aspect of it — most races aren’t in fact partisan because the winner is pretty predetermined.

          2. I always hear this but I used to live in CA where it is incredibly easy to vote as a permanent absentee and a huge portion of voters do actually vote that way. I understand there is theoretical risk involved with vote by mail but I never hear people talk about actual fraud other than a few isolated cases that are newsworthy precisely because they are unique. If there were documented widespread voter fraud in states with high numbers of permanent absentee voters, I’d be more willing to listen. Until someone points to actual evidence, I assume anyone arguing against vote by mail or otherwise pressing voter ID laws is really just trying to repress votes.

          4. I think it’s the >100% voter turnout that gets me. Even the old USSR never used to go above 100% voter turnout.

          5. I’m a CA resident and voting by mail is super, I’m a big fan. You get your ballot several weeks before the election, and you don’t have to go someplace inconvenient and wait in line to vote. When I voted in person, my polling place changed constantly and I commute, so it was a pain to have to go into work early or late since my polling place was near my home. The whole “voter fraud” argument is pretty much nonsense flogged by certain cable news channels. Conservative places in CA elect conservatives, liberal places elect liberals. It works fine.

          6. That said, if this gets all balled up and I have to spend hours and hours waiting in line to vote this time for some absurd reason, I’ll do it. It’s that important this time.

      5. And maybe you’ll wake up in six months when the rest of the world has successfully suppressed the virus but the U.S. is still seeing millions of cases and 3,000 deaths per day.

        1. And thinks “some guy registered their pet to vote and had their pet vote”. I mean come on.

          1. My dog is sad that she can’t vote for Bailey Warren for first pet, so she’s decided to sit out this election.

      8. Exactly. Even before the pandemic I was aware of the role of Vitamin D deficiency and impaired immunity. It’s not some new correlation. It’s just not advertised because the public has been sold a bill a goods that sun exposure causes skin cancer. Read Lies My Doctor Told Me by Ken Barry. I gradually transitioned to a low carb, high fat, keto- carnivore based diet to 15 pounds that wouldn’t budge otherwise, and continued with it because I just felt better all around and it resolved a multitude of minor health impairments (asthma, poor vision, acne, rosacea, mild depression, poor energy, migraines). Unexpected benefit was that I no longer needed sunscreen. Once my diet became based on animals fats and red meat (which of course liberal media tells you to avoid) I no longer burned in the sun – my body was protected from the inside out because I ate the foods humans were intended to live on. Blood tests also confirmed more than adequate vitamin D levels despite the fact that I take no supplements whatsoever. Most of the general population is deficient in vitamin d because they eat crappy food and avoid the sun. I’m thankful I have a general practitioner that supports my lifestyle and the fact that it has gotten me off of certain prescription medications.

        1. Could we not politicize the diet that my “liberal” physician recommended for me to manage a medical condition? People who feel great into old age eating a grain based diet are human too.

    2. IDK re easy to fix. My older overweight (but Irish-complected) husband has had low D for years. Nothing seems to change this even though his doctor tests regularly and has suggested things. I think it is a chronic problem for some (but since it’s not my problem I can describe it, not explain it).

      For me, this yearly in the season, I skip sunscreen everywhere but my face.

    3. My understanding is that supplements do not necessarily work because they are not regulated by the FDA or required to demonstrate efficacy before going to market.

      1. My doctor told me this is true generally, but vitamin D is an exception. This was not in the context of coronavirus, but it was in the context of immune system function. I have an autoimmune thyroid disease and he told me that supplementing vitamin D is known to help because it regulates your immune system and helps prevent it from going into overdrive. I was tested before and after taking supplements and the supplements fixed my deficiency. I still take thyroid meds so its not like vitamin D alone cured my thyroid problem, but I have noticed a huge improvement to my overall health since I fixed the vitamin deficiency. I get sick with colds etc much less frequently and feel much less fatigued than I did before.

        1. Anecdata, but an unprescribed D supplement has helped me majorly too, especially re colds and fatigue.

          1. My husband and I are both low — we’ve seen concrete evidence of Vitamin D levels rising when we take regular Vitamin D supplements by testing at different points. I’ve heard that a lot of the “recommended levels” are BS for adults, but I don’t think it’s disputed that the testable levels rise with the supplements.

        2. +1 I too have a autoimmune thyroid disease and endo remarked about my vitamin d levels this year, noticing the steady increase.
          I was severely vitamin d deficient three years ago – I couldn’t recover from flu and was experiencing weird bone sensations and irregular heart palpitations. My PCP tested my vitamin d level on a whim (because I asked, per my mom’s suggestion) and my levels were single digit low… like ricket’s syndrome territory. I was put on loading dose 50K IUs for 8 weeks or so with levels checked again after loading dose regiment completed. I have since supplemented with 1K IUs once daily and my levels are now well above the low end of the range. I have also noticed a dramatic improvement in my health overall.
          Checking vitamin D levels wasn’t part of my annual physical prior to this.

          1. Also had rickets level numbers. My dietician said she’s never seen adult numbers that low. I think they’re on the low end of normal right now with 4K per day.

      2. I’m clinically vitamin D deficient and my doc has me on 5,000 iu of Vitamin D purchased over the counter. We keep monitoring it and 3,000 gets me just out of deficient and 5,000 gets me closer to normal average. If they didn’t work, I wouldn’t see a change in my numbers and I’d have to go on injections instead.

        Most people get their D checked as part of their routine physical though so if you haven’t been told your deficient you are probably fine. That said, I can’t recall for certain if it was my PCP that caught this or my GI so it could be part of my routine GI workup and I may be wrong about the PCP.

      3. Regulation would be great, but I am on over-the-counter vitamins at my drs recommendation, and it has improved my levels (verified by blood test).

        You also should go to a doctor and get a blood test to find out if you’re deficient and what dosage you need, which isn’t really possible for many right now. But you could choose to take the maximum “safe” dose and try to get some sun. That said, I wouldn’t expect much.

      4. It’s true supplements are not regulated by the FDA. I don’t really understand why that is. But doctors can recommend brands that are known to be more reliable, and supplements definitely have an effect on people who have a known deficiency in some area.

    4. Politics aside, I just googled covid and Vitamin D, and it looks like most articles on this topic have been published in the last week or so – many in just the last few days. It looks like the paper on which the discussions are based was published 4/30. Could be it just hasn’t reached critical mass and that’s why people aren’t talking about it?

      1. oh great. I’m the person that needs 5,000 IUs. Guess I better stock up before this becomes a national story and there is a vitamin D shortage. Luckily we are going into summer and I can get some naturally.

        1. I take 10,000 IU on most days in the dreary months and spend time outdoors in the spring summer and fall so I end up building a tan and getting my VIt D. I only use sunscreen on face and chest and I don’t burn easily. I feel far better taking Vit D than not taking it….I am not surprised that Vit D deficiency leaves one more vulnerable to the virus. This is a no brainer.

          1. The hypotheses for “why” are pretty specific (MedCram has a video explaining a hypothesis involving ACE2 receptors, vitamin D, and blood clotting). But I agree that correcting a deficiency is a no brainer.

            My doctor has me on on a pretty high dose of D3 as well as some K2 to help tolerate it since I really struggle to maintain barely adequate levels, and as another autoimmune thyroid patient, I was told it’s better to have plenty.

    5. does anyone know how long it takes to raise your vitamin D level if you’re taking a daily supplement? Say 5000 IU…

      1. I was technically just “insufficient” not “deficient,” but I noticed an improvement to my energy within a couple days, and I think it was less than a month before I had a blood test showing a huge improvement in my levels. And I was only taking 1,000 IU. 5,000 is a lot and I wouldn’t take that much without a doctor telling you it’s necessary.

        1. Thanks, that’s great to know. I bought some and each pill is 5000, so that’s what I’ve got for now…I guess I can ask my doctor about it…

          1. Please do your research, that amount is too high for you to take safely unless you have certain test results/are under drs orders. Even a quick google search will tell you this.

          2. I’m the one taking 5,000 IUs with doctor’s orders. Do not start there. They increased me in 1,000 iu increments with a blood test every three months. It was only after seeing how I responded to 1k, 2k, and 3k did they bump me to 5k.

          4. It shouldn’t be hard to find a 1,000 IU pill. And there are some multivitamins that have even smaller doses.

          5. Vitamin D doesn’t have to be taken daily; it’s possible the doctor will just say to take it every five days. I agree it’s worth asking though.

          6. Agree with Anon @ 1:46 that maybe you could take it once a week? I take a huge vitamin D pill once a week (50,000 IUs) that my doctor prescribed b/c I’m very deficient and have a hard time taking a daily pill. Would ask your Dr. first, though as I don’t know if you can do that with all brands.

      3. I was tested in December (prior to a surgery involving bone healing) and was at 13. I took 5000 IU daily until February, and I was re-tested and got to 26. I now take 2000 IU as maintenance.

    6. Thanks for posting this. Reading about it made me feel like shit because on top of having a lung illness, I also don’t absorb nutrients so my vitamin D levels are always incredibly low, even with massive amounts of supplements. So I’m at double higher risk? F me.

      This all sucks. I’m going down to get a COVID test today for strange symptoms, plus flu and a respiratory virus panel. To cover their bases (in case it’s a bacterial Infection flare up, not if it’s viral) my doctor also put me on 2 double strength antibiotic pills twice a day, so even with a lot of nausea meds I’m nauseous. I just want to cry.

      1. I read that they were surprised to find in the data from New York that respiratory conditions weren’t overrepresented among hospitalized patients (this may vary by specific condition though). This was a huge surprise. Cardiovascular patients were significantly overrepresented. So they’re still figuring out risk factors and whether this virus is less similar to SARS than we initially thought.

        1. +1. A big study recently said asthma isn’t a risk factor. Initially it was believed this primarily affects the lungs so any lung disease (even mild asthma) would increase your risk. Now it seems like the immune system is much more important than your lung function.

        2. I’ve also read that about asthma, and it’s good. There was a study released a few days ago about my particular condition (not asthma) and we have a lower rate than the general public. However, this is probably because we all started social distancing weeks before it was required, and we know how to do it effectively. The small sample size (30-40?) of people with my condition who have gotten it have mostly been OK. Couple of ICU admissions, mostly people recovered, a few deaths. But we are definitely at a higher risk of getting it because, essentially, bacteria and viruses stick to the mucus in our lungs like concrete. They also aren’t sure what it does to lung function long term. So even if the outcomes are OK, the risk is still higher for us and the long term risks are so unknown. We are at less risk of cytokine storm, though, so, yay?

    7. kids have their own problems — see the recent stuff about a Kawasaki-like disease showing up.

      1. Vitamin D may play a role in that too, because it’s caused by an immune system overreaction. The news from England about it (where it was first observed) said the cases were almost entirely in darker-skinned minority groups, who are much more likely to be vitamin D deficient than white people. Also, while very scary, it’s still extraordinarily rare and is generally survivable with treatment, especially if treated early.

  11. I want to treat myself to a Barefoot Dreams cardigan. Can anyone comment on the sizing? Also, do they really hold up to machine wash and dry? Should I size up to account for shrinkage?

    1. I have a BD bathrobe I got several years ago. It does fine with machine wash and dry and I haven’t noticed any shrinkage. If anything, while wearing it may stretch out a bit because the material is so heavy. Can’t comment on cardigan sizing.

    2. I have never put mine in the dryer. I am a 6-8 and wear the medium. It’s plenty big in the body, but I wouldn’t size down because the sleeves are kind of tight.

    3. I wash and dry mine once a week to keep in the office. It didn’t shrink. Washes great. The sleeves are oddly tight (or my arms are fatter than I realized)!

    4. I have had them shrink in the dryer. After I put my circle cardigan in the dryer, the ribbed trim turned into a ruffle.

      I find that BD runs large. The sleeves on the circle cardigan are actually quite loose, so loose that I can’t push them up. The sleeves on asome, but not all, other styles are slimmer.

    5. The arms are tight, I can only wear it with a short sleeve shirt. Otherwise it doesn’t run small.

  12. Here’s a fun one for a Friday: for those of you who like baking, what are your favorite recipes and/or cookbooks? I’m particularly interested in more advanced / challenging bakes (I’ve recently tried things like eclairs, homemade puff pasty, etc.), but also just anything tasty!

    1. Apparently a lot of people don’t like her, but my go-to for baking recipes is Sally’s Baking Addiction. I’ve made probably a hundred of her recipes and they’ve all been outstanding. A lot of her recipes are simple and quick (muffins, cookies, cupcakes, etc.) but she also has tutorials for more advanced things like croissants and macarons.

    2. The King Arthur Flour website has great recipes.
      I received the Big Book of Baking (from the GBBO) for xmas a few years back and the recipes are challenging (at least to me).

    5. I like David Leibovitz (books and blog). On another note, any advice/resources for puff pastry? I’m a good baker generally, but my attempts at puff pastry have resulted in non-puffy blobs of buttery goop.

      1. I’ve used Pierre Herme’s recipe for inside-out puff pastry, and it’s never failed me. You have to follow his instructions precisely.

    7. I love Anne Byrn’s books American Cake and American Cookies. They’re compilations of historical cake and cookie recipes, with notes about where each recipe came from. The older recipes are updated for modern bakers, and the restaurant recipes are adapted for home bakers. I haven’t had the books that long, but the recipes I’ve tried so far have all been delicious. Most recently, I made the cheesecake recipe, and it was super yummy–DH said it was the best cheesecake he’s ever had. I wouldn’t say the recipes are challenging for someone who does choux, puff pastry, etc., but they’re fun!

    9. One of my friends recently made a Smith Island cake, if you are looking for a time-consuming project.

    10. Anything by Rose Levy Berenbaum or Dorie Greenspan. They are impeccable with technique (especially Berenbaum), explain things so that you can do them even when they’re tricky, and I’ve never had a recipe from either of them that turned out terribly or wasn’t delicious.

      1. +1 to Rose Levy Berenbaum. Her blog has a lot of recipes on it if you want to get a sense of what she’s about. My only caveat is that she’s anti American Buttercream and seems to like things less sweet in general. I just have her Cake Bible, which is a bit dated at this point but still extremely useful for making cakes and things like fondant from scratch.

        1. Omg, she sounds like my ideal! I haaaate American buttercream (ganache, whipped cream, or swiss all the way!) and generally cut down the sugar in my recipes – I also STRONGLY prefer fruit/citrus desserts, will be checking to see if she has a good (not overly sweet!) danish recipe.

    11. My next complicated “goals” cake is the Gluten Free Chocolate Chip Cookie Dough Brownie Cake by Haley at Flour Covered Apron. Even the photo is drool-worthy. (Note that it’s egg-free and flour-free, for food safety.)

    12. Baked Alaska? Sachertorte? Napoleon milles feuilles? filled Danish pastries?

      One of my favourite indulgent recipes, is something called French waffles where I live. It’s a sort of sablé short crust biscuit in an oval shape filled with buttercream (butter, egg yolks and icing sugar). I don’t know the English word for it, but it’s lovely. It’s about 50 percent butter :D

    13. Bravetart! The marshmallow buttercream was a lot of steps, but the best frosting I have ever tasted. Great basics with explanations of the science behind it. Plus there are recipes for all kinds of homemade guilty pleasures: ding dongs, snickers, etc.

  13. Hey fellow ladies with giant feet. Long Tall Sally is doing 50% off all shoes right now, sizes 10 and up. including Blondos, supergas, corso como, dolce vita. I really don’t need anymore shoes, but this is kind of crazy!

  14. Have we heard any recent updates from Quarantine Couple? Wondering if I missed one. Where did we leave it? Did OP leave and has the couple stayed in close phone/Zoom contact?

    1. I am sure if she wanted up to be updated she would tell us. I don’t think it’s very nice to be asking for updates.

      1. Oh brother, I don’t actually care about this couple I don’t know, but it’s not mean or offensive to ask for an update when a person has taken it upon herself to willingly document the progress of her new relationship to a group of online strangers…

        1. Yeah, I agree with this. People ask for updates on prior threads all the time! What’s different about this one?

      2. You say this every time people ask for updates on things and it’s just not true that it’s rude.

      3. I think it’s fine to ask. It sounded like they had a beautiful love affair even if it didn’t last, and the people who were rooting for them could still be supportive.

        1. This was what I was talking about last week with innocuous comments getting unnecessarily attacked. It was nice that you wanted to check in with someone who had been struggling, and that’s how your message should have been received by this community. I’d personally rather see more messages with people looking out for each other than finding reasons to engage in conflicts. In answer to your actual question, I haven’t seen an update, but I also hope she is doing well.

        3. Yeah, I got slammed by I think this same person when I posted asking too. The reply poster seems absolutely convinced it must be going badly for QC poster and we should all know that and asking is the height of rudeness. Shrug, she posted and asked for advice, I answered then and I’m curious at the outcome of where she moved and wish her the best. Not rude.

          1. I have a friend like that who is just a very southern, what-will-people-think kind of person. We have an informal chat group with some people, and somebody asked ‘is it ok that I add these other people to the chat group?’ and southern girl immediately pointed out that the new people, once added, would be able to read this very chat history, as if to warn us not to say anything offensive (not that anyone was going to). I just ignore these comments and occasionally wonder how inhibiting it would be if I were so, so very bothered by imagining other people’s thoughts.

        4. Plot twist… maybe the Anonymous person at 10:59 posting the slamming comments IS Quarantined Couple….and things didn’t go well. (Just kidding….kind of?).

          1. Nope! Didn’t mean to set off a firestorm I just figure if she felt like sharing she could and it might feel intrusive to have people asking for updates. Shrug.

  15. Anyone know of a reputable online place to order window blinds that won’t cost an arm and a leg? Stunned at how much they cost at my local store (Hunter Douglas branded options) for even a single window.

    1. Everything in my life comes from Costco so we went with a Costco partner for our blinds. They have different local partners in each area and provide cash back as well.

    3. JC Penney always had the best options and prices, but haven’t shopped there in years.

      1. Seems like JC Penney may not be long for this world. RIP my high school and college employer.

    4. I got ready-made blinds at a home improvement store and the store cut them to width. They are really nice and were so much cheaper than custom. Home Depot is doing curbside pickup and home delivery; I’d call your local store and see whether they can work with you.

      1. We bought ours from Home Depot at about $25 a pop. They were available in our windows’ size so we didn’t need to have them cut. They look great and we’ve gotten compliments on them.

    1. *waves in Montreal, where snow is piling up on my nice patio set right now*

    2. Aw, I’m jealous. I love winter, missed out on a lot of skiing due to COVID (first world problems, yes), and it’s going to be 95 degrees here today.

    5. And we are expected to be on our 6th straight day of over 100 degrees in Phoenix…

      1. that sounds terrible but can I offer a silver lining? At least it’s consistent. I put away sweaters this week thinking okay now there’s no way I’ll need them, I got a little sunburned over the weekend! Nope…

    6. Same outside Boston tomorrow. I might seriously lose it. Also the yo-yo weather patterns are utter HELL on my migraines. Argh.

  17. Have you ever sent (by mail) a cake to anyone? When I look online all my options are 1800 flowers type of companies but I’m looking for a solid bakery that others have used. (I’m in NYC and she’s in Arlington Va if it matters. And because Va. tends to get hot by June — is there some place that can do this safely w/o icing going bad?)

    My sister’s 40th birthday is in a few weeks and will be spent alone. She’s not a big birthday person at all but I wanted to mark the occasion. She likes sweets and always laments that everything is all about cupcakes and she likes real cake. For those who like Friends — I’m picturing that episode where Mama’s Little Cheesecake kept sending cheesecakes to Chandler’s building and him and Rachel kept stealing and eating them. So a cake (though not cheesecake) literally arrives in a box at her door — not a local bakery that doesn’t usually deliver saying they’ll send by Uber Eats and then deciding it can’t and then calling her to come pick it up or anything like that (she’s higher risk so I REALLY do not want her venturing out for an unnecessary gift). Preferably a small cake that she can refrigerate and eat a slice over 2-3 days. But even if such a small cake isn’t possible that’s fine — she’ll consume what she does and toss the rest. Normally she could slice it up and share with neighbors or coworkers but I’m pretty sure communal food in the break room won’t be a thing for a long time to come.

    Also — same question — can you send a cookie cake, if so from where? Also a favorite and I feel like that’d keep longer because it’s just a cookie.

    1. Are you open to cupcakes? If so, Wicked Good Cupcakes. Full disclosure so I’m a little biased, they’re a bakery from my home town but then they hit SharkTank and went basically mail-order only. So good!

    2. You can try the Bakeshop in Arlington. They are a nice local business with yummy treats and I really doubt you’d run into a delivery issue with them. Their website says they will call you to arrange the delivery.

      1. +1 Bakeshop
        Also, Wegmans does great cakes and you can order via Instacart for delivery.

    5. I was contemplating sending a cake and came across the company The Milk Store – but I hadn’t heard anything about it, so wasn’t sure. But maybe you could check it out?

    6. The Amphora Bakery in Vienna is great and still open. Don’t know if they do delivery right now, but you could maybe do an instacart thing?

    9. My mom sent me a cake from The Milk Bar Store a few weeks ago, and it was SO good! The cake is fun and whimsical, but also really sophisticated in the way the flavors and textures are put together. It came in really impressive packaging to keep it fresh and cool during shipping. Highly recommend!

      1. Yes, sorry! This was the name of the one I saw. I am glad to hear it was good; good to know!

    10. I would look for a bakery that is local to her. If you don’t want her to have to pick it up, I’d ask the bakery if they have any delivery suggestions–but make that a secondary issue to solve, not the primary.

    11. Someone sent me a cake in the mail from the Momofuku Milk Bar a few months after I left NYC. Delightful!

    12. I got tasting cakes and cupcakes from Cakes by Isabelle in Alexandria last month – she’s doing delivery, and they were incredible. The chocolate with raspberry is something I’ll be having for all celebratory events in the future!

    13. Definitely see if the The Cake Room will deliver! They are amaaaazingly delicious!! cakeroombakery.com

    14. Definitely see if the The Cake Room will deliver! They are amaaaazingly delicious!! cakeroombakery.com

    15. I’m in Arlington! I would suggest Georgetown Cupcakes if you are open to cupcakes. Yes, I know they have the TLC show but they are hands down my favorite cupcakes in the city. They delivery locally (and also ship nationally- I have sent them several times to my mom in PA and she loves them!). I also second Bakeshop – I haven’t had their cakes but the oreo stuffed chocolate chip cookie is amazing.

    16. I’m going to be spending my birthday in quarantine next Friday so I ordered myself a Milk Bar birthday cake. They are so good–pricey but worth it.

  18. I decided since I’m WFH indefinitely and won’t be dressing up for the foreseeable shoes I’m going to buy the most comfortable shoes possible no matter how ugly. Any suggestions? Danskos? Those weird toe shoes?

    5. For what activity? I’m just going with wicked good slippers or barefoot unless I have to go outdoors, and then it’s my comfy but ugly sneakers.

      1. For walking the dog and walking around outside mostly. In the house I use Costco slippers which are fantastic.

      1. +1 I’ve worn my allbirds almost every day for the last 2 months.

        I also like the Uggs idea. And TOMS are easy for summer.

    7. my Sperry Topsiders are my most comfortable pair, more thank Birks, or vionic. Toms houseslippers are nice for warmth

    9. I find Danskos uncomfortable. The top of my foot is high (not a high arch – just a high top if that makes sense) and I find they rub. They are also loud and tear up wood chairs. I would just wear running shoes or Birks.

    10. If your feet are narrow-ish, Naot Kaylas. Not attractive, but not totalllly hideous (…depends on which colorway, and imho, which color sole yours have). I have two pairs and they are on my feet all the time, even at home.

    11. Crocs flip-flops are fantastic for warm weather. Here in SEUS I wear them as slippers year-round.

    12. I have major foot issues and since WFH I’ve had none. Birkenstocks the entire time – original Arizona.

  19. Looking for recs for the most luxe, fluffiest towels and also a bathrobe? Trying to derive more joy out of my everyday routines, I think this will help.

    1. Costco towels–really, I’ve seen them recommended a TON and they really are great! I don’t have a membership so my parents gave me a set for my birthday last year.

      For the bathrobe–are you looking for fluffy or thin? I think there are lots of fluffy options, but Barefoot Dreams seems like the obvious one. I have one from Restoration Hardware from four years ago that I barely wear but is very cozy. I have a Gap body thin one that I use regularly, and am sort of on the hunt for a pretty floral option.

    2. I find my Ralph Lauren towels to be very fluffy. I’ve heard the trick is you need to buy them directly from Ralph Lauren. I think they might make cheaper versions for Macys, etc., which aren’t as good. The particular ones I have are the Bowery collection (l!nk to follow). It looks like they’re having a sale on them thats about 50% off. I might just have to stock up on some spares!
      As a side note, I also grew up having Frette towels, which are considered much more “luxe” but wasnt impressed. They hold up reasonably well but no better than my Ralph Lauren ones, and the RL ones are much fluffier.

      2. But do they have the logo? I still use RL towels from the early 90s (almost always line dried), and they’re starting to die only in the last few years.

        1. Mine do not have the logo. The only way you can tell they’re Ralph Lauren is from the label. I have been using some of the towels for at least 10 years and they’ve held up well.

      3. +1000 do NOT buy RL from Macys! Got towels from there and they discolored immediately.

  20. Someone talk me down please: I realize that most associates are slow right now, but that knowledge doesn’t stave off the anxiety that comes with it. I have barely billed this week and have been LOVING having the time to do whatever I want but every day I feel more anxious about getting fired. Is this basically a grace period in terms of billable output of associates, or could I actually get in trouble for this? I haven’t asked for work because I really do appreciate the break and don’t actually want work (and had a pretty normal April in terms of hours that I worked from home). I just don’t want May’s slowness to cost me my livelihood! TIA

    1. Ok truths here: of course you should be worried!!! Of course they can and will fire people with no hours!! I have next to no billable work and I am doing everything I can to get more. If you’re sitting back and treating this as a vacation your name will deservedly be first on the lay off list.

      1. I should have mentioned this in my post – my firm has been express about working hard to not have to lay people off/reduce salaries. So while I am alive to the possibility that they still will, it is less of a looming threat in my mind.

    2. I think everyone is entitled an off week or so from time to time, especially during COVID. March and April were slower than usual for me, and I was a little concerned, but it was true for most of my department and I think my firm is trying hard not to fire anyone. I’m seconded now so my hours are stable (but not massive enough to make up for the slow time). Don’t beat yourself up for a slow week, but if the coming weeks are still slow, make sure people know you are willing to take on more.

    3. HI we are the same person. I don’t think I will be fired because I am confident my billing will pick up as soon as the courts open in my state, which will be in June I think, but I am so anxious 24/7 about my billing. I billed ~100 hours in April, will probably bill about the same in May, and will spend the rest of the year not taking a single day off to make up for it and hit my hours. I get really anxious when I know I’m not meeting expectations, and even though it is 100% beyond my control and I am doing my best, I am in fear everyday of being “called out”.

    4. Honestly, I think it might. If you are more junior, you are cheaper to keep vs. the 5th year who is expensive and maybe wasn’t that good to begin with. That’s your cage match.

      From 2009, at some point, offices and then groups were told “you need to reduce your headcount by X” and they could have the final pick. Staff and admin, too.

      So, look at the competition. Are you fungible? Cheap? Expensive? Generally well-liked? The most-liked? Have a history of B- reviews? It’s all very relative. [Advice — prepare for the axe and start writing client alerts so you will have some resume items showing initiative and helpfulness. The sad thing is that even if your layoff is economic, they are all also sort-of performance-based. We keep the C- people when we are too busy to do without them but that who is the first to go unless their uncle is a big client, etc.]

    5. I don’t know, but I am somehow at the point for the first time in my nine years of litigation practice of having almost nothing to do, and it is stressing me out. I know a lot of litigators go through slow periods, but I’ve always been in a practice that is pretty steady and this is a new feeling.

    6. if your firm is deciding who to lay off, the difference between “associate X’s hours were low but she stayed engaged and sought out what was available” and “associate Y’s hours were low and she hid out and didn’t raise her hand,” you don’t want to be associate Y.

      One slow week before you raise your hand, fine, but don’t let it become a habit!

      1. This. No one with low hours (or anyone really) is safe. But don’t give the firm a reason to put you on the chopping block over someone else. A slow week isn’t a death sentence, everyone has slow weeks occasionally. But don’t let slow week become slow weeks or slow month before you raise your hand to ask for work. If there’s no work, there’s no work but you definitely don’t want to be on the list of people who don’t even appear to be looking to help out. Also if other groups are busy and yours isn’t, I’d strongly suggest volunteering to help out other groups. If you’re junior it’s not that hard to pivot.

    7. Many practices are just slow. I would still send an occasional email asking for work for CYA purposes.

    1. Very unhappy with the wooden furniture I’ve gotten from them, but no experience with upholstered.

    1. Oof, I clearly do not want to get work done, because I just spent entirely took much time on his quiz. I love the idea that a 68-year-old is perfectly content to marry a 25-year-old, and that a guy with a shiny bald pate has Opinions about the appropriate length and hairstyle his future wife should have. Talk about chutzpah! (And don’t get me started on his more substantive beliefs.)

      1. I love his clearly wrong answers along the lines of “I’m a feminist and no man should have opinions about my hair.”

    3. OMG. I didn’t get to see questions 2 thorugh 11 because I couldn’t get past the first one (How do you feel about President Donald Trump?) and the oh-so-cute pictures of this dude posing with and without his little hat. It’s sad, yes, but also hilarious if he really things this will work. (But, oh god, maybe it will? Now that would be sad.)

    5. Just so we are all up on things, this is what he has to say re 9/11: “The three skyscrapers in New York City (WTC 1, 2 and 7) that collapsed on 9/11/2001 were destroyed by pre-set explosives in a massive operation planned and executed by agents within the U.S. government (the “deep state”). The mainstream media, the scientific/engineering community and the deep state then cooperated in a massive coverup operation that continues through today. Scientists and engineers at the National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST) were charged with investigating the cause of these collapses. To conceal the true cause of explosive demolition, they created fake computer models with secret source code of how the buildings collapsed, the results of which were incorporated into the official 9/11 report.” Also – he strongly dislikes rap and rock, so you have to listen privately. And he’s ok if you eat animals, but only at a restaurant. His two greatest living heroes are his spiritual guru and DJT. What a catch!

      2. That hit me right in the vaj. How do I snag this guy before all the other women in the entire world try to get him?

    6. I guarantee you that the third health issue to be disclosed at a later date is some STD or sexual dysfunction…

  23. To all the people without screen names: what is so hard about coming up with a moniker to identify yourself on this website, while still retaining your privacy? The comments are endlessly full of “Anonymous” and “anon” to the point where it’s hard to keep track of who said what to whom and when. My screen name, “Juliska,” is not on my birth certificate. It’s a childhood nickname given to me by my mother, and she would be the only person to recognize it, if she were ever online. It is a real name in a couple other languages, but I have never met another Juliska.

    Most of you are here a lot, going by the comments. Why not identify yourselves in some way? Give your middle name an airing, be your favorite fictional character, impersonate your great-grandmother, use your birthstone or birth month flower. Who are you in the zodiac? How about the Chinese zodiac? There must be some name that appeals to you other than being the umpteenth “anon” on here.

    1. I use my ‘name’ a lot, but switch to anon when sharing where I live, a specific thing that happened to me, where I work, family details and other stuff like that. It makes sense to me not to connect a lot of personal details to even a nickname. You do you.

    2. I want to preface this by saying there are some good conversations here.

      It’s because moder@tion here is poor, and some people here are mean and weird … Like I’m pretty sure there’s a poster who follows Pure Imagination to make a mean comment every time she posts (unless she’s trolling herself for attention) and another who wants to fight LaurenB. Some of these are anons, but the regular posters are also sometimes a mean girls clique that piles on with perspectives that are the norm here but are laughably out of touch with reality. It’s mean spirited and unconstructive. But it really comes down to poor moder@tion.

    3. Yes please! There are so many minor fictional characters whose names you can adopt as pseudonyms. It’s nice when there are recognizable personalities posting.

    5. I know people here always claim that people can’t be “outed” but I have recognized two people I know in real life from their comments (under a consistent screen name) here. And these were not BFFs, they were pretty casual acquaintances, in one case just a professional contact. I used to comment under a regular name and just go Anon for anything more sensitive/personal (like “gardening” questions) but eventually I decided I didn’t like the idea of people being able to identify me for even my more benign comments so I switched to Anon all the time.

    6. Because a lot of people get weird and stalker-y with regular posters. They wait for them to post and then go on the attack. It’s disturbing.

      1. I have been reading and commenting here for the better part of a decade. I use my regular name when I’m posting something fairly innocuous and use anon otherwise. But I agree that (a handful of?) people here are kind of intense and tend to take things the worst possible way and bully people. I’ve been here long enough to see multiple regular posters bullied and attacked so much that they have either left or switched to anon only.

        If the comment section were more closely moderated, I could see more people using regular handles.

        1. I agree with this. I used to post under a name but stopped a while back after seeing how stalker-Ish some posters (one poster?) get.

    7. I post under this name most of the time but you’d better believe I switch to anon when I’m talking about something that my real life coworkers would know was me. I don’t care if they recognize that I am the “anon” that’s posting in that instance, but would rather not have every single comment therefore outed.

      1. Ok, many of you raised some good points, especially about the stalkers. It’s just that sometimes the comment sections look like a long distance photograph of a colony of penguins – same, same, same, same ….

    8. Agree completely. I pick a different name nearly every time I post, just so any conversation I participate in is easier to follow. Sometimes it’s a color, a fruit, something I’m eating or drinking, or a song I’m listening to… literally anything. I’m unsure why others don’t adopt a similar policy just for ease of reading?

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