ByKat Hours Updated
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Frugal Friday’s TPS Report: Shirred Dolman Sleeve Tops

Our daily TPS reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices. Old Navy Women's Shirred Dolman Sleeve TopsReader C writes in to recommend this lovely top from Old Navy, noting: “I've gotten three compliments on it already, it's gorgeous with a vintage vibe and totally office appropriate. I've worn it today with a navy suit, but the sky is the limit with this one. It's not jersey like the review says, it's a nicer lightweight fabric that can be dressed up or down.” As my friend A would say: Noice! Call me crazy, but I'm kind of seeing this belted with a light brown belt — perhaps with a navy pencil skirt for work, or a pair of trouser jeans for the weekend. It's $22.94, and also comes in a solid pink. Old Navy Women's Shirred Dolman Sleeve Tops Seen a great piece you'd like to recommend? Please e-mail tps@corporette.com. (L-2)

Sales of note for 12.2.24 (Happy Cyber Monday!! See our full sale listing here!)

And some of our latest threadjacks here at Corporette (reader questions and commentary) — see more here!

Some of our latest threadjacks include:

352 Comments

  1. I read a previous post about where everyone is located….I am in Singapore and quite addicted to Corporette!

    1. Wow! Singapore is on my list of places to travel to one day, particuarly because I will have family living in Indonesia soon and it only a short plane ride away. Any advice on what to do when I get there? Granted – it won’t be for at least 6 months, but I love to dream of future travels :)

      1. Shopping! Shopping is pretty good and cheap. My European/American friends love the beaches on this side of the world. I would recommend you go to Bali, Phuket or Krabi in Thailand- all a short plane ride away from Singapore or Indonesia. Amazing!

    3. Well if I haven’t already outed myself 100 times on here, I’ll out myself now by adding that my husband went to middle school and high school in Singapore and loved it. I’ve been there twice and hope to get back there soon. I love it there but I still get claustrophobic in the underground shopping centers that are part of the subway system. At least my husband is 6’5″ and I can always find his head above the crowd.

  2. Early TJ – Can anyone recommend an immigration attorney in DC / MD / VA? Preferably someone with whom you’ve had personal experience? We’ve worked with someone remotely before but looks as though we may need a local person. TIA!

      1. Happy to send good vibes. I also think Dree Collopy at Maggio Kattar is excellent.

      2. Dan Lopez at Briglia, Hundley, Nuttal & Kay in Fairfax, Virginia is one of the best in the area. Good vibes as well!

      1. Family matter, though more complex than the usual (whatever that is). Thanks all!

        1. Or maybe family matter, hoping to avoid removal. Can you tell it’s been a rough week? Sigh

    4. Also recommend Nancy Lawrence who is Of Counsel at Odin, Feldman & Pittleman in Fairfax, Va.

      Regardless, good luck!

    5. Andy Greenfield, of Fragomen. They are a large business immigration law firm, but also do family immigration, especially complex cases. He is excellent.

    7. I have personal experience on a complicated family immigration problem with Pamela Genise from Murthy Law Firm just outside of Baltimore (link in my posting name). I would recommend her to anyone.

  3. Cute top! ON has some really cute things right now, particularly tops and other small things that help make my suits feel less boring.

    1. I really like ON for trendy tops that I won’t feel bad about tossing when their cheap fabric starts to look, well, cheap.

      1. Same here… but I find it difficult to find the right size there which makes online shopping a challenge.

        1. Same. I find that their sizing differs from style to style, and sometimes even within the same style (like, I pick up 2 larges of the same shirt on the table, and they fit differently.) Def hard to order online from them.

          (Kat, I keep getting the posting too quickly message)

      1. I’m shocked!! I’m not far from there but…both 15 and 24 are really remote…is 15 out on the sea ice somewhere???? Kind of confused!

    3. That’s neat. It looks like I missed some interesting discussions yesterday. Work getting in the way of corporette again…

    4. How do you add yourself to this? (Sorry, I should probably be more tech-savvy)…

        1. How? I can’t figure it out (and I’m not logging in to my gmail because I don’t want my real name to show – can I do it without logging in?).

          1. Oh I was just logged in, but if you click on your location, and then click “edit” you’ll be able to add yourself. Or, if you need to add a new location, just click edit at the top.

          2. I think you have to be logged in, but it won’t show your real name associated with your pin. Once you’re logged in, you’ll see a button in the top left: Edit. If you click on that, you will see a blue pin icon at the top of the map. Click on that and then click where you want your pin. At that point you can just put your handle or an anonymous #, and as far as i can tell it doesn’t show your real name anywhere.

          3. Ooops! I lied! I don’t see my own name on my pin, but i do see other people’s names on their pins. Hmm. Maybe if you want to add a pin anonymously, ask here for someone to create a pin in your area, and then you can just add a # to the comment box anonymously? I don’t know… this is a good point tho for ppl who have their real name attached to their google account. ;o\

          4. I think I just added a pin anonymously by following Baby DC Attorney’s instructions.

          5. unfortunately, if you click on the pins, in the box it says “last updated by ___” and has the Google account user name.

          6. There must be some way to avoid it, because I do see some pins that don’t have a “last updated by” user attached to them. I’m not sure how, though. Maybe it times out after a certain amount of time has passed? It shows only your first name, unless you don’t have a name associated with your profile, in which case it will show your full e-mail address — so be careful if your e-mail address includes your last name and you want to remain anonymous.

            I have a shiny new “Anastasia” gmail account, now. :)

      1. Someone yesterday (not me) said she was in Pittsburgh. She just might not have dropped a pin.

          2. Sounds like one of y’all are going to have to man-up and drop a pin as yourself. Or create an anonymous gmail account and drop said pin. :-P

          5. I created a gmail account CA.Atty.[random numbers by hitting keyboard with frustrated fist)@ gmail.com. What canya do!?

          6. Recently moved from PGH. It’s quite an underrated city. I miss it terribly, yinz guyz.

        2. It was me!
          I just added myself with my junk mail account (yay for crazy email names). Would anyone else like me to add them?

          Woo Pittsburgh!
          I really like this city. It doesn’t deserve the rep it has on the East Coast.

          1. Would you mind adding me to Denver? I really don’t want my junk mail account linked to this name. Thank you!

          2. Please add me to Shanghai, if it’s not too much trouble. Can’t have Asia un-represented !

            I started reading Corporette as a distraction during long boring late-night (for my time zone) conference calls with the US east coast but I fear it’s now taken on a life of its own.

      3. MissJackson is in Pittsburgh. I tried to drop a pin but it ended up someplace random. Don’t have time to figure it out right now, but you all know that my handle is my place.

        1. Sheesh. I “woman’d up” and I think I dropped a pin in Pittsburgh. Unless I mucked it up, which is entirely possible.

    6. Wow, I just checked that map again and it has totally taken on a life of its own. There are pins *everywhere*. (But we need more in Canada – come on, guys, I know you’re out there.)

      1. …and I can’t spell! Caucasus. I’m in the Caucasus. My excuse is it’s an election year!

      1. I am! Just haven’t been able to do the whole pin thing. I know we aren’t the only ones….

  5. This looks like the sort of top that I love to wear under a suit – comfortable and easy to wear, cute without being cutsie, looks good jacket on or off, flattering. I think it would look great wiht a light gray or brown suit, or with a pair of gray slacks, a white blazer, and red shoes.

    1. am i the only one who avoids wearing dolman tops under jackets? It might be, since i am easily irritated, but i find it such a pain to get the sleeve to not bunch up in the shoulders of the jacket.

      1. I avoid dolman tops in general. Especially the ones with long/longer sleeves. They make me feel like a flying squirrel

        1. ha! yeah, i wish companies would make more tops in cute fabrics that just have regular short sleeves…

        2. Seconded. I don’t hate them when I see them on others, but I’ve never been drawn to one for myself.

    2. I actually don’t mind the look, but with my chest/waist ratio, dolman tops look terrible on me. So I never got to the point where I tried to put them under a suit.

    1. I have this top and it’s long enough to tuck in if necessary. But I agree it does have that cropped look.

    2. I thought the same thing. I’m long-waisted too, so untucked this might be a bit boxy and tucked into pants I’m afraid it would constantly be coming untucked in the back. I would, however, love to wear this bloused out a bit with a high-waisted pencil skirt.

  8. Has anyone tried Nordstrom’s “true fit” feature on their website? If so, have you found it to be accurate after ordering an item? It’s given me a few recommendations that I’ve scratched my head about after looking at the size guide for that brand, but a) I haven’t ordered anything, and b) I’m not sure if I accurately told them my body type (it’s hard to make subjective judgments about my stomach fat, rear, etc!).

    1. I tried it and I didn’t find it particularly accurate. I’m usually a size 4 or 6 in dresses and the True Fit feature told me that I was a size 4 on pretty much every brand. Well, I tried an Elie Tahari dress in a size 4 and it was way too tight in the hips. I like the concept but it didn’t work for me.

  9. Has anyone else noticed a super annoying ad bar at the bottom of corporette lately, at least in Firefox, with boxy ads and tweeter/meebo etc boxes? Can’t stand it.

    1. I use Firefox and I haven’t seen it, thankfully. Hope it stays away–I hate those things.

    2. You can minimize it and it goes away — its not just a Firefox thing, I also see it on some websites on my Safari — I actually wonder if its an add on or something. Meh, I just make it small and ignore it.

    3. Yes. I can’t make it go away permanently and it is driving me nuts. I don’t have a facebook or twitter and I don’t know why it keeps popping up.

    4. Yes, I can minimize but it won’t go away completely. I figured it was a new method of advertising for Corporette, but it does drive me nuts.

    5. Same – way too easy to accidentally click on. Wish I could hide it for good (or that adblock could zap it!)

        1. Did you have to add a filter? I tried blocking it using the default filter and adblock only blocked part of it, not the whole thing.

      2. doesn’t totally go away when i minimize it:( it’s only on corporette for me. i hate it.

    6. On the subject of browsers, anyone like Google Chrome? It was auto-installed on my laptop yesterday (at least, that’s when a popup informed me.) I had the option to uninstall it, and I did, and my Internet Explorer is working better today than it has for a while. I wonder if that is because my IE had been hijacked by Chrome and I liberated it.

      Also, I am a heavy user of Google Calendar. Recently, when I open my calender in IE, a popup informs me that I am trying to use Google Calendar with an “unsupported” browner and I can hit OK to read only (not helpful) or “cancel to continue loading Google Calendar and hope for the best!”). That’s an exact quote, including the exclamation point, from the popup. Really? Google Calendar won’t support IE, a major player in the browser market? That seems like a stupid choice by Google.

      Anyone know about this stuff?

      1. I love Chrome. I don’t know why you would willingly use IE over Chrome, but maybe that’s just me. In terms of the Google Calendar thing, I think they’re just being Googly and trying to point out that (they think) it’ll work best with Chrome — but seriously it’ll work fine with IE. So I’d just ignore it.

        1. LOVE Chrome. So much faster than IE. Why this bizarre IE loyalty? I’ve never had a performance or slowness issue with Chrome – much less needing reason to note that Chrome is running “better” one day than another!

        2. I love Chrome too, I HATE getting on computers that still only have IE. In fact, I usually go ahead and at least download firefox if not Chrome.

          (Still can’t get my techno-resistant SO to switch though…)

      2. Maybe you need to update your version of IE? But it really is an awful browser – I am surprised that anyone is still using it. I don’t know anyone who does.

      3. Is IE really a major player anymore? That’s not meant to be snarky, just an honest question. Maybe it’s my age (26), but I don’t know of any businesses or people who use IE anymore.

        1. Doc review websites (Relativity, Stratify), firmware including our timesheet website, and Westlaw (because of my firm’s plug-ins) don’t work on anything but IE. I use IE for work stuff and Firefox for everything else.

          1. I use a mac laptop for work (independent contractor right now) and had to get a parallels desktop to run a virtual Windows on my Mac JUST so I could run IE JUST so I could run Relativity. Very annoying. But Relativity is the only thing I use IE for, I won’t even check my e-mail on there.

          2. Ugh, this reminded me that I actually spoke too soon saying I never use IE. I just started using a doc review website that requires IE to log in. Part of the appeal of it vs. the native programs hosted on our firm server was the ability to log in from home without going through my firm’s slow remote server and even slower doc review software. Now I’ll still have to remote in because there’s no way I’m installing Windows on my personal Mac.

            Honestly, who still designs web-based programs that can only be used on IE? When I did VITA in law school, the tax software the IRS provided was IE only and it meant we only had about 3 people who could prepare (vs. doing mostly pointless intake interviews) because very few students had PCs.

          3. Good to know! I had no idea there were still programs that were only supported in IE.

        2. You will find IE in a lot of corporate settings, schools and other places where managability is an issue. It’s a lot easier for most IT shops to manage IE then Chrome/Firefox (though this is dependent on the type of desktop you run, how your IT dept operates etc).

          It’s also my explanation for why Blackberry stays in business :)

      4. I loved chrome on my home laptop. (not allowed on work image).
        When I got my iPad , I gave my newer laptop to hubby to use and he reformatted it. Goodbye chrome

      5. I love Chrome. I can’t imagine why anyone would still use Internet Explorer. I’ll use Firefox and Safari occasionally, but never IE and I don’t know anyone else who uses it.

      6. Is IE a major player? I don’t know a single person who ever uses it. Chrome works so much better. Looove Chrome.

      7. I’ve installed and uninstalled Chrome about six times. I want to like it, because it’s supposed to be better, but I don’t. I’m still a Firefox fan (with Tab Mix Plus — that makes a huge difference).

    7. Yes, I’ve seen it on my Firefox, too. It’s also showing up on SFGate, the local newspaper’s website. I guess Kat’s monetizing in a new way. Considering how much time she puts into this site, and how much time I spend on it, I don’t mind clicking “close” once. No big deal. SFGate can go suck eggs though.

    8. I have a “Secret” brand deodorant pop-up in the lower left hand corner, and no clear way to make it go away. It also seems to slow down my processor when it shows up. I’m on Google Chrome at home.

      1. Look in the bottom right hand of your browser, there should be two little downward pointing arrows. If you click on them, it minimizes the whole toolbar/ad thing.

    9. Yes I hate it. They have it on slate sometimes too. I’m on chrome, and I have adblock, so not sure why it’s here?

    11. In all my reading about Google’s new privacy policy that launched March 1st, I read somewhere that you can turn off Google’s ability to send you ads that it thinks you would want to see (based on what websites you read, what words you use in your emails, what you watch on YouTube, what photos you post in Picasa etc.). I can’t find a link just now to instructions how to turn of the “advertise to me” default, but I did it on Febraury 29 and I haven’t seen any creepy ads since.

  10. Just want to vent. I ordered a sweater on Valentine’s Day from a small chain store and was told it was out of stock but shipping 2/28. Haven’t seen anything or heard from anyone since. So emailed the company. Their response to me this morning:

    Thank you for contacting us! I am sorry to tell you that the back ordered
    cardigan is sold out. We expected to receive returns in perfect condition from
    the holidays to fulfill back orders requested by customers. Sadly, they sold out
    and we are unable to ship it to you. You were never charged for this cardigan
    and the order was canceled.

    Wtf? No email to tell me it was cancelled? And this was what they planned to do to fulfill. It’s more than two months (!) after the holiday. And the sweater wasn’t deepy discounted or anything–it was $100. Maybe I’ve gotten spoiled by places like Nordstrom and Zappos for their great service.

    I guess there are worse service experiences though, right?

    1. It’s actually only about 3 weeks after the holiday, but yeah, that sucks. But Nordstrom has done the same thing to me before.

      1. I think she meant the Christmas holiday, when people were purchasing gifts and then said gifts were being returned. Not Valentines Day. Unless the store really thought that they ‘d have an excess of inventory from Valentines Day returns, which seems unlikely (and/or stupid, if true)

  11. Anyone want to do a round of What Are You Wearing, for this lovely (casual or not) Friday? Everyone who hates them, feel free to skim ;)

    I’m wearing my trusty J. Crew Tippi sweater in flame, with Urban skinny jeans and white/black/yellow/purple/turquoise/lime striped ballerinas. I’m channeling my inner Betty Draper and wearing a single strand of pearls–irrationally, I feel like I’m playing 50’s housewife dress-up every time I wear them; bangs are corralled with a bobby pin ornamented with a white lacquer cherry blossom.

    1. Fuschia tee from Target, black blazer from Zara, teal paisley silk scarf, Cult of Individuality jeans and black ballet flats. Oh, and silver and yellow enamel earrings from Jewelmint.

      Possibly not the most exciting outfit ever, admittedly.

    3. Working from home today, so collegiate sweatpants (my law school), T-shirt from 5th grade Odyssey of the Mind competition and collegiate fleece (SO’s alma mater).

      Our weather has changed from spring back to nasty winter, so I’ll take any excuse to bundle up in cozy clothes.

      1. Odyssey of the Mind! I did OM from 1st grade until 10th, although at some point it turned into DI. I loved it. Any other OMers out there?

          1. I did OM in 6th and 7th grade and in 7th grade we went to WORLDS! (forgive the Ellen caps but at the time this was the coolest.thing.ever.)

          2. Oooh World! Super Jealous. I made it to State 3 times, but never any farther.

            I’m trying to remember what the Problems were that I worked on, and the only one I remember for certain had to do with Time Travel. (We created a HUGE book that was the time machine AND the backdrop of the different scenes.)

            There was also a skit involving soccer-playing fruit, but for the life of me, I can’t remember what the prompt was.

        2. *Waves* I did it in grade 6 and 7 (when it was still called “Olympics of the Mind”) and LOVED it! So much fun!

        3. 3rd-8th grade and again in 11th and 12th! It was the best!

          The oldest OM Tshirt I still have is only from 1999 though.

      2. Ooh! Love OM! Did it in elementary and middle school! Got 3rd place in TX in 5th grade…the pinnacle of my OM achievement ! So jealous of sconnie’s trip to worlds!

        1. My shirt is from 5th grade North Texas Regionals. 20 years later, I still wear it with embarrassing frequency.

          1. Nice! I was in the Houston area and 5th grade would have been 1992. Sad that those shirts are now long gone!

      3. I did OM in the 5th and 6th grades. it was a blast, and I was the only girl on a team of guys including my brother and all these other awesome nerds. It was a lot of fun.

    4. I think instead of what AM I wearing (which is boring), I’m going to play what I WISH I was wearing.

      I WISH I was wearing that lovely Diane von Furstenburg dress from earlier this week with nude jimmy choo shoes and a fun opera length necklace to add pizazz. :-) And maybe some green earrings for contrast.

      2. me too! (As it is, I had a presentation this morning so I’m stuck in a suit while the rest of my office partakes in casual Friday.)

      3. I wish I were wearing that lovely dress in size 8 and it fit perfectly.
        I am in a double-digit size now… yesterday a package with 2 pants in “my current size” came in, and they were too tight.
        That’s all.

    5. Distressed black skinny cords with motorcycle boots, gray/black abstract print top with black cardigan. “Casual Friday” in a pretty casual to begin with office.

    6. i’m also wearing a tippi sweater in flame, but not loving my outfit otherwise…bootcut khakis, long navy v-neck, slightly dolman cardigan, dark brown pumps. boring jewelry – rose gold mk watch, yurman petite albion ring/earrings/pendant in blue topaz, wedding set, longer silver necklace with scattered CZs. i planned to wear a skinny leopard belt over the cardigan but forgot it, so i think i look kind of dumpy.

    7. wool khaki colored trousers from banana, discounted lavendar sweater from banana (3/4 sleeves and cowl neck), patent heels.

      couldn’t swing jewelry or anything else this morning.
      no court, no appointments, just paperwork.

    8. I am wearing one of my “filler” outfits – it’s quiet around the office today, so no sense putting wear into my more stylish pieces! Super boring plain turtleneck, gray pants and flats.

    9. Dressed up a bit more this morning because I felt like it and it was raining and a little cooler (it’s been around 80 and humid). A little boring…

      Black pencil skirt, black tank, taupe cascading cardigan with a black geometric pattern around the edges, my go-to jewelry of black diamond pendant and black diamond hoops, black tights, black incredibly comfortable t-strap Circa Joan & David pumps.

    10. a)- what I am wearing: White cable knit Lilly Pulitzer sweater with a teal scarf and black pants from the Gap. Super cute grey flats with a bow and metallic studs on the toes
      b) what I want to be wearing (I really like this game TCFKAG) nude or grey pumps from someplace fabulous, grey tights and my favorite navy blue dress from Brooks Brothers- with pearls clearly because that’s how I roll

      1. I KNOW. Both of your outfits sounds cute. :-) But in my imagination, I am stylin’.

        1. Thanks!
          I just want it to keep being fabulous weather so I can wear cute clothes full time!

          2. And it’s been so long since you were G that I can’t remember what the G stands for.

          4. me!?
            Thank you! It makes me smile everytime I have to re-enter it into my computer at work
            TCFKAG your username is a fabulous series of letters… though it has been a while since you were G.. I wasn’t even here then ;-)

    11. Cream silk shirt, Lands’ End (why do they put the apostrophe after the “s”?) Canvas tweedy hunting jacket, Lands’ End Canvas trouser jeans, Cole Haan tortoiseshell loafers, 5-strand pearl necklace, and pearl earrings.

      1. Printer’s error in their first catalog that they were too broke to fix! (There was a long article about it a few years ago, I think in the New York Times?)

    12. The skirt in magenta with a slate grey/purple boatneck sweater, black tights, black wedges and red beaded necklace.

        1. It’s an angora blend from TJMaxx for $16. I also bought it in red. It’s an interesting shade. Sometimes it looks grey, sometimes purple, sometimes blue.

    13. From the bottom up: black heeled oxfords, boot cut jeans, black with little white polkadots button front jersey blouse with ruffles on the chest, a cranberry colored cardigan & two silver chains, one with a garnet pendant.

    14. I am playing today only because I am wearing my favorite outfit that I got for cheap, which makes it even more attractive, don’t you think? Michael Kors dress from TJ Maxx ($19), blazer from Chadwicks (bizarrely high quality for $15 in 2004), adorable suede maryjanes from Sears, where I rarely shop ($21), and an opera length silver necklace that was a Christmas present. The palette is navy blue and gray. I think I ended up spending more on the supersheer navy pantyhose than I did on any other single piece — I am on my second pair today.

    16. Brown shift dress, pink tweed jacket, my mother’s vintage bead necklace and I’m alternating between brown and pink ruffly flats and brown Cole Haan slingbacks with a buckle. I wish I was wearing the jacket with jeans today but had to go to court.

    17. Also from the bottom up: blue GAP velvet ballet flats, dark wash GAP Long & Lean Jeans, AT silk shell in teal, AT V-neck dark grey cardigan, simple-ish silver necklace, and a black leather headband over a low bun.

    18. Working at home — Loft cranberry ruffle top with navy camisole underneath, Banana beige open sweater, Gap jeans, Softwalk clogs. Faux diamond studs, pretty blue & white ceramic necklace my sister-in-law brought me from Turkey. I may go into the office later, so I’ll throw on some Ann Taylor brown pants and some brown shoes.

    19. White St. Johns blouse with grey polka dots and a ruffle, navy boot cut pants from Banana, mustard yellow cardi from LOFT, pearl studs, and my ridiculously comfortable (but old and in need of replacing) commute flats commuting flats because I didn’t realize how short my pant hem was! Oh well, I tried.

    20. Defiantly wore not one, but TWO hair elastics on my wrist during my interview this morning. Granted, it was a phone interview, but I felt like a rebel nevertheless. (The rest of my outfit is boring… suit, button front, etc.)

      1. oooh watch yourself Portia, you don’t want to get on the Hair Band Mafia’s radar.

    21. Dark washed boot cut jeans, patterned top with deep purple, tan, and gold in it; olive “safari-esque” blazer, and brown boots. Actually decently dressed for a Friday, milagro!

    22. Black and gray animal print full skirt (so abstract I have no idea what animal it is supposed to be), turquoise v-neck top, slate gray shoes, pearl drop earrings.

      I’m trying to wear my fall/winter colors until March 21, even though it is 70 degrees here. Spring styles and colors will feel more special to me if I wait until the season actually arrives. I have a bunch of new items including a trendy orange linen skirt that I haven’t worn yet and it is So. Hard. To. Wait.

    23. Am wearing: blue and grey plaid Lands’ End Canvas skirt, grey J.Jill leggings, burgundy boots, navy American Apparel tee, grey cashmere cardi. Pearl earrings from my wedding.

      Wish I was wearing: the perfect shirtdress that I see in my dreams – navy, knee-length, A-line. Doesn’t exist as far as I can tell… I’ve ordered from everywhere I can think of. Contemplating getting it custom-made, but that’s out of my budget right now. Maybe when work slows down this summer I’ll make it myself…

    24. Black & white tweed collarless blazer (Tadashi), black longer-length t-shirt (Target), dark wash straight leg jeans (Old Navy diva fit – thanks to a corporette rec that they would actually work for someone in a double digit size), black patent round toe pumps (Louboutin simple 55 pumps), single strand of pearls, pearl earrings, and oversized silver/gold watch.

    25. Paige straight leg dark wash jeans, coral t-shirt from H&M, navy BCBG cardigan, taupe Nine West ambitious heels, and pearl earrings.

    26. Blue and black striped cardigan from Jones New York, black tank, jeans, orange scarf and tan oxford heels.

    27. Navy Diane von Furstenberg sheath dress with ruching, Kate Spade nude suede heels, Cream Tory Burch long cardigans, and a gold Tory Burch long necklace.

    28. So jealous of all the jeans! We don’t really have casual Friday, and jeans aren’t allowed. I’m very boring today, black wool logan cut pants from BR, maroon tie-neck t-shirt from talbots (very old, and starting to look worn, but I love it and can’t bring myself to retire it), black and grey houndstooth wool blazer from AT.

    29. I’m casual as always today. Bootcut jeans, sage green converse, kelly green v-neck tee, dark brown halogen cardigan, and an old navy blue and multi-green scarf. No jewelry because somehow I ran out of the house without it. My ears feel naked!

    30. Traveling today so I’m wearing BRIGHT blue puma sneakers, jeggings, GAP green cowl neck shirt, college sweatshirt and a faux leather jacket that I’m wayyy too fond of. I look like a kid but whatever, I’m ridiculous comfortable!
      Actually *just* missed my Megabus to NYC . *sigh* Traveling sucks. Next time, I am carpooling or flying.
      Atleast I have time to go back home and repack my carry-on before I *actually* get on the red eye bus.

    31. The green dress from Target that was posted on the Frugal Friday TPS two weeks ago; I just got it yesterday. The only size left in the green was a large, so I went with it (I’m usually an 8/10). It’s a bit big through the middle and hips but I needed the room in the bust. The neckline is a little bit low for me (I wore a cami just in case). I’m going to have it taken in and the neckline taken up this weekend. Paired it with a black blazer, black and gold accessories, and purple, green, and black print pumps.

    32. L.L. Bean pink and green lobster print cardigan, L.L. Bean green eyelet tee, NYDJ dark bootcuts, and my beloved brown Kenzie flats that are wearing a hole in the bottom. Jewelry: moissanite studs and e-ring, watch, Cape Cod bracelet, Kiel James Patrick rope bracelet.

      1. In the interest of full disclosure, I also had a pink Sephora ribbon hair band on all morning, but after my lunchtime walk, I left my hair up.

  12. Thread Jack: Basic Jacket?
    The post a few days ago about replacing your tired Mary Janes made me think of buying a basic go-with-anything black jacket.

    I am always reluctant to buy anything other than super casual jackets (that I don’t wear to the office) on their own because I’m never sure what they go with. I know my triacetate suit jackets from AT don’t look good with anything other than its matching pants/skirt. But I even bought a boucle jacket from Talbots (super cute…burgandy and greys) and I have the hardest time matching it with anything. I always feel like the “weight” of the material doesn’t match up right or something. It seems too heavy to go with my year-round wool pants.

    Any tips for buying the perfect Little Black Jacket? I’d love one that could go to work and with jeans. If it helps, I’m tall and have a bit of a tummy (so side seams are my friend).

    1. I recommend velvet. I have a black velvet one button blazer that I wear a ton, even in the summer. It works with all but the most floaty, summery of skirts and pants, including black trousers. Plus, it doubles as a casual jacket and looks great with jeans and scarves.

      1. If you’re going the velvet blazer route, I will recommend Talbots. They always have nice velvet blazers. Sizing is sometimes off with Talbots, so make sure you try something in the store before you buy though.

    2. In the fall it would look with browns and things in the brown family to bring it more into the colder weather.

      In the summer, I think it would look lovely with a crisp white. Another fun combination might be a white top with a cobalt blue cardigan. Same with a eggplant purple. I also think if you wanted to neutralize it a little bit, you could pair it with a pale grey.

    3. I’d add white, navy, or gray. Whatever color, though, I would want the top to be pretty simple–the skirt’s enough of a statement piece.

    4. I’d do a plain white shell and a vivid blue cardigan, with neutral tan or nude shoes. I’d also wear my white-on-gold enameled bangles, but that’s just because I have them.

    5. Navy and gray would be my first picks for tops to wear with it. Then I would go with pops of color in jewelry, like carnelian or turquoise.

    6. If you’re feeling bold (and not at the office because it might be a little too Lemon for that) you could try vibrant dark purple- not quite eggplant, because at least to my eye that’s a neutral it’s so dark.
      But if you could find a really purple top with rich color it would be fun
      nude shoes would help pull out the cream in the skirt to neutralize it a little bit

    7. Since tangerine orange is hot this spring, you might try that. Or a very pale peach.

  14. Have any of you had feet attached to a purse long after its purchase? I was thinking of contacting a cobbler, but I don’t even know what to ask, or what to expect price-wise.
    The bag in question is a medium-sized croc Brahmin tote. Like Mary Poppins, it’s practically perfect in every way… I just wish it had feet on it.
    Suggestions? Experience? Price point?

    1. I’ve never had this done — so no direct experience or price point. But if you can’t find a cobbler to do it, I bet anyone who does leather work can (so maybe you can find someone local who makes belts or leather jackets or something and inquire to them).

  15. That is lovely!

    I like the thought of a white shell with a teal cardigan. and bright jewelry in caribbean colors.

    Or go pale with ivory on top and nude-for-you pumps – very understated.

  16. How do you decide it’s time to take the plunge and switch fields, if the switch means you have to start over at the bottom of the totem poll?

    My SO might have the opportunity to do what amounts to an minimum-wage part-time internship in an industry he REALLY wants to get into. He would come out of the internship with a required license and commission-based employment at that employer. His current industry is pretty dead with no signs of future improvement due to the recession/outsourcing/oversupply, and his career has stagnated. Realistically, if he wants to stay in his current industry he is looking at making a 30K-range salary for the rest of our lives (we are in our 20s-30s) or going back to school. He’s really lost interest in his current industry as a result of being stuck in dead-end positions.

    All in all the switch seems like a good idea, but I’m extremely nervous. I’d be completely supporting him until he gets on his feet, and I’m only partially supporting him now. I guess I’m nervous that the getting on his feet part just won’t happen and that we’ll be doing this exact same thing again in 5 years, and we will have forgone the opportunity to save my income and pay down debt more aggressively in order to do this. Although all of the people we know who are established in this other industry make much better money than he does currently, they also are really talented (it’s a skill-based field) and it’s of course hard to anticipate what the supply/demand will look like in this industry in 10-20 years.

    So, for those of you who have left other careers to pursue something new that required a significant investment (school, lower wages/entry-level position), how did you decide to go for it? And do you regret doing it?

    1. I don’t have any advice for you but my husband and I are working through the same issue so you guys are not alone!!

    2. I worked for several years (5) before returning to law school, and I made pretty good money and was starting to establish myself in my field, so I had little external incentive to quit and go into massive amounts of debt. Also, after graduating from college, I had pretty much promised myself that I was done with any sort of formal education. But, in the end, it came down to asking myself, is this (my current job/career path) what I want to do when I’m 50? For me, the answer was no. I didn’t feel like I had the proper training to be really good in my field and I always had some variation of imposter syndrome, and I felt like I wanted to accomplish more. I didn’t (and don’t) want to change the world, but when I eventually retired I wanted to be able to feel like I had done something, and I had done it well.

      I don’t regret making the decision that I made, but I do regret the amount of student loans (175k+). The debt is keeping me tethered to my biglaw job for a little while longer, and I feel like I don’t have any work/life balance.

      As for the financial support – only you two can look at your budget and figure out if that will work for you. But, I think you should plan for worst-case scenarios (like, what if he doesn’t earn any commissions for 12 months? when does he pull the plug?). I think it’s important for you two to have conversations about setting a realistic end date for this venture. Or, how will he supplement his/the household income while he’s pursuing this venture? Can he work retail on the weekends, etc.

    3. I’m probably one of the few people on here who doesn’t regret going to law school. I was in a career before with no growth potential and really hated it so much that I was sick every morning. I ended up going back to school when I was in my late 20s and feel like I found a job that really is a better fit for me. Yes, it has involved some significant financial sacrifices and a starting salary that is lower than I would have gotten in my old career, but I like being a lawyer more and know there is significant growth potential.

      That said, if he’s just taking a part-time minimum internship, it seems like he will need to have something to do with the rest of his time- be it another part-time position or school. I am not sure it makes a lot of sense for him to just do that part-time when it’s clearly not going to be enough to support himself at all.

      1. My SO is a freelancer/contract/temp employee in his current field. He would start out at this place two weekdays per week and then over the nine months the days would increase. They’re transitioning the current intern person into a fulltime role but that person is still getting their required license. So my SO would just do freelance work in his old field and try to get shorter contract gigs to fill the time. The new place told him that if he needed to take a week or two off to do longer freelance projects from time to time to make money, that would be okay, and that he could do his freelance work at the internship when he’s slow.

        I guess it’s really not that high risk since there won’t be a big gap in his resume if he ends up quitting and staying in his old field–he’ll just list the freelance work he is doing during this time.

        1. Why not go for it? Who wants to stay in a field with such little advancement opportunities, little pay, and little to keep you interested? Change is scary, but this sounds like a good option. I hope it works out for you both and that you look back on this with a big sigh of relief.

          1. I think this is what we are both thinking at this point, I just didn’t know if this sounded crazy. Change IS scary, though. Plus, I started law school in Fall ’08 and he’s had a really long run of bad job searching luck, so I think this has really colored our thinking on how our efforts will be rewarded (i.e. with failure, although I do have a good job). I know this is terrible negative thinking, but it’s hard to get out of this mindset when all of your experience with job searching has been during this recession.

    4. Are you married? Engaged? I think that makes a huge difference. Supporting a spouse while he/she makes a change that will lead to better things is very different from supporting a live-in boy/girl friend.

      1. We’ve lived together two years. It is a permanent relationship to us (we have our reasons for not getting married but they don’t have anything to do with the quality or permanence of the relationship). I have been supporting him through two years of un- and underemployment. I was hoping this would culminate soon in him finding a fulltime job rather than continuing to be underemployed, but that has more to do with feeling behind on building savings, paying debt, etc. than my feeling about supporting him.

        I posted awhile ago about my SO’s unemployment and our financial distress after he moved with me for law school, and recently re-posted about looking for a career counselor for him, but now this opportunity has popped up. Someone actually remembered me and wished us luck and to whichever poster that was, or anyone else who was wondering–my SO found another contract job relatively quickly and my firm unexpectedly raised associate salaries (woot!), so we are out of the worst of it. Figuring out a long-term plan is a lot harder and has required much more difficult choices than, like, maybe we should cut back on going out to eat!

        1. I think I remember your last post and how stressed you were then, so it’s great news that the worst is over.

          I left a highly stressful senior financial services job a couple of years ago and set up on my own with a couple of long-time clients. Best thing I ever did, although I thought I was all set to be at my last firm forever and ever. What did me in was the realisation of how miserable I had gotten and that the pressure wasn’t set to end any time soon. I didn’t really over-plan my next move – was living and breathing my job right up to the day I handed in my security pass.

          It seems clear that your partner is miserable and you’re both pessimistic about the long-term prospects of doing nothing, so why not just go for it ? What I would add though is that it’s not clear whether your partner will be able to work part-time while pursuing his internship, but if he can, he should. It gives you both stakes in your joint household, even if he is contributing less than you in $$ terms, and makes for a healthier balance in the relationship than if you were both living with the fact that you are “completely supporting him”.

    5. My husband I went through this. He ended up quitting his job (which he hated and was making him miserable) and going back to school while I supported us completely for almost two years. He graduated from his program in May and started working in his new field in July. After six months in an entry level position he got a large promotion, and is well on his way to being very successful. He loves his job and has worked very hard. If you love what you do, it is easy to want to excel at it.

      I’m not going to lie and say it was an easy two years. I was angry and resentful at the beginning of the process, and by the time it was over I was incredibly tired of the stress of being the sole breadwinner. But, as corny as it sounds, there is something to be said for following your dreams– especially while you are still in your 20s and there aren’t any kids in the picture. I wish both of you well, and wanted to let you know that short term “setbacks” can be worth it in the long term.

  17. Any tips on handling questions from the judge? I tend to freeze or blank. Thanks in advance!

    1. Listen carefully to the question and take a breath before answering. I clerked for a couple of years and my judge asked questions because she genuinely wanted information, not because she was trying to trick the attorneys.

    2. Not having a ton of experience doing it myself, but having observed many, I think effective lawyers if they have a brain fart or just freeze say something like “That’s an excellent question your honor” and shuffle some papers — seemingly looking for an answer — while organizing their thoughts. And taking deep breaths.

      Just don’t feel like you have to launch immediately into an explanation without any organization, that’s when things go off the rails. Most judges would rather you take a moment to think about what they asked then to just be incoherent.

      Also, if you don’t know, don’t be afraid to say “You know what your honor, I’m really not sure of the answer to that, but we can get that to you as soon as we leave today.”

      And practice, practice, practice.

      1. This is really important. Some people just want to fill silence, but during my moot court experience I really found a value in looking down at notes, taking a breath, and thinking through at least the first couple words and identifying the point the judge’s question was addressing.

        An amusing anecdote, our issue during moot court was a Katrina issue where a jail had become flooded and prisoners were stuck in their cells in waist to chest deep water for days and days and days. They were suing the prison. Anyway, so the judge asked another student “don’t you think the prisoners had rights in this situation?” And she blurted out “of course not! They’re prisoners!” The rest of that argument did not go well for her at all.

    3. Try to remember that, at base, you are having a conversation (albeit a formal one) with another lawyer. Also, remember that most judges aren’t out to get you–they usually just want to understand your case better. Mooting your arguments might also help.

    4. Now that I’ve been through a rodeo or two…
      1. Be prepared. Before hearing/oral argument, think about potential questions the judge may ask or arguments opposing counsel will have and think about responses in advance. Don’t have a script or too specific response prepared, though, because then you may freeze trying to think of that specific response. Instead, have in mind what your position is so that you can have a natural and thoughtful response. Have any cases/authorities prepared that are on point.
      2. Pause. Take a breath, and think for a moment or two before starting your response.
      3. Admit what you don’t know. If you are not sure about an authority or facts, or if you can’t commit to something on behalf of your client without checking first, don’t be afraid to say you don’t know or that you will have to follow up on a specific issue. You never want to get caught in a wrong answer or false represenation/commitment if you can’t back it up.

    5. Not in law, but I’ll do a plug for Toastmasters as a way to practice thinking and speaking on your feet.

        1. Toastmasters is an international org of groups dedicated to improving speaking and leadership skills. There are public and corporate clubs everywhere.

          Check out toastmasters dot org to get more details. It’s a great org!

    6. Think about what questions you are likely to get ahead of time. If you really get nervous, maybe rope in a colleague or friend to listen to your argument and moot you – nothing beats practice.

      Do think of it as a conversation. Most judges don’t want to trick you. Pause to think about the question – sometimes the judge is actually trying to help you.

      Pretend you’re acting on law and order or whatever works for you — I find that “pretending” you’re a great TV lawyer can go a long way towards calming your nerves. Give yourself a little “get in character” pep talk before you go in.

    7. Pause before responding. If you don’t understand the question, then ask the Judge (in the most polite manner possible) to rephrase the question, or say something like, “I’m sorry, Your Honor, I want to make sure I understand the question – are you asking X?” I think the suggestion to remember that you’re having a very formal conversation is a good one, and the judge really isn’t trying to trick you. I wholeheartedly disagree with the suggestion to use the filler, “That’s an excellent question, your honor.” (Sorry, TCFKAG) I think this is an annoying and pretentious filler that makes you look bad. The judge doesn’t care if her question is excellent, she wants an answer. IMO, using this phrase makes it sound like you are trying to brown nose and that you lack the courage, confidence, and common sense to have a simple conversation without trying to cover up that you are scared or caught off guard. I once paused for a full 15 seconds before answering a question. It felt like the longest 15 seconds of my life. But, in the end, even though the Judge granted a continuance when I wanted to go straight to trial, it was clear that my transparency – taking the time to thoughtfully respond – worked well in my favor and in developing rapport with the judge when the trial actually happened two weeks later.

      1. Oh, and know your case. Inside and out, backwards and forwards. This sounds like common sense, but I’m always surprised to see attorneys show up for court when they aren’t well-prepared regarding the facts and their claims/defenses.

        1. Oh yes. Know your case. I got into an argument once with an attorney who, I’m going to say, was incorrect about some facts and insisted to the arbitrator his version was accurate. I kept insisting that it was not and had documents and testimony to back my assertion up. The arbitrator ultimately sided with him (it does help sometimes to be a man, 6’2 and older than 28 with a certain kind of judge/arbitrator) and because of that I had to remove myself from the case due to a conflict. The attorney told me on the next case we worked against each other that he really didn’t know the facts, “but I was pretty sure I was right!” But he admitted that in the end I was right and he lost the case for it. That didn’t help my bruised feelings or reputation for getting essentially “tricked” off the case, and I would still like to kick that attorney in the balls.

          Sorry, that just degenerated from helpful to a rant.

      2. Oh…everyone knows its filler. :-) I just think when people are nervous, its really hard to say NOTHING, so they need to have a stock phrase in their back pocket for when they need a minute. It doesn’t have to be that particular one. Its just better then “Um….well…um….” which is what I’ve see happen sometimes.

        1. I agree I think it makes you look bad. A judge I like always answers “I know that!” and I think it throws people off even more. I think it would be better to just take a beat or two of silence then to say that.

        2. Fine, i am outvoted. But for the LOVE of all things holy, do not fill the time while you think with um, uh, or like. I’ve seen 60-year-old male attorneys who’ve practiced for a really long time. I just want to shake them.

          2. I was taught to always thank the judge for asking the question, then say “just to be sure, you asked XYZ in reference to ABC, right?”

    8. Currently clerking and second the point that when my judge asks a question he genuinely is asking because he wants to understand your point better.

      My advice is to try to answer the question. If it is a yes or no question, start with yes or no. After than you can qualify or explain your yes/no answer. Even if you’re asked something you don’t particularly want to admit, you’ll have more credibility if you answer and then try and steer back to a stronger point rather than just trying to waffle past the question.

    9. Is this at the trial court level or appellate? In either case, everyone has already brought up good points. The only thing I would add is: get as much experience as you possibly can. That might mean doing pro bono work that will get you in front of trial level judges (protective orders are good for this). You really just need to get as comfortable as possible so that your anxiety doesn’t cause blank memory, and the only way to do this is through exposure.

      Other than that, I agree with everyone else who said be prepared, and don’t be afraid to say you don’t know.

      1. Thank you all so much for your helpful responses! What a kind and knowledgeable community this is.

  18. Anyone ever take a language or dance class at the Los Angeles Community College (LACC)? Any recommendations?

    1. I’ve taken both dance and language classes at LACC. My recommendation is to apply for admission immediately. You’ll get a registration appointment and you can then try to register for classes…but chances are they will be filled. Don’t despair! Just show up the first few classes and ask the instructor to add you.
      I’m not sure how summer is; chances are because of budget cuts a lot of classes will be dropped, if there is a summer session at all.

  19. I did it. Left my previous field when it was clear that my earning potential had stagnated, I was miserable, and all of the people higher on the ladder than me were miserable (and I didn’t want their jobs).

    I went back to school and worked full-time in my new field, at a pay cut, while doing it. Those 2.5 years were somewhat miserable, but my husband was really supportive and pitched in a lot to help out.

    The pay cut was difficult to work through (not just because it meant there was very little left over after mortgage and bills), and had lasting repercussions I hadn’t anticipated (I took the job because of its flexibility with school, but my next employer used it as a way to underpay me). But now, 4 years and 2 jobs past graduation, I’m making more than in my previous field and have some semblance of work-life balance again. And – this cannot be understated – I LOVE my work and feel excited and challenged in my job, with many potential trajectories ahead of me.

    1. I have that same dress in black. Love it, but don’t put it in the dryer. It is now about 3 inches shorter on me than it was before…

    4. Cute dress!

      I have to stay away from Old Navy. I always get sucked into buying things there because they look just like things in nicer stores but are so much cheaper. I get all excited and over-buy. Then when I do a seasonal closet purge I realize just about everything I’m getting rid of is from Old Navy.

      I also have to buy kids clothing, pretty much all the time because they’re growing of course, and I have found that items from the Gap hold up to multiple washings much better than Old Navy. I thought they would be the same as they’re basically the same store, but no , there really is a difference.

  21. Hello! I have a question for the hive mind. One of the articling students at my firm asked a good question: Is it pretentious to add letters to the end of our name if our degrees are only something as run of the mill as a B.A. Eng. and a J.D.?

    I’m interested in any thoughts/comments!

    2. It probably depends on the field, but my gut reaction is yes. There’s a dude in my office who puts “MBA” after everything, and it gets lots of eye rolls. Plenty of people have master’s degrees and MBAs but don’t go around advertising that fact.

      1. Can’t say I’ve seen anyone list their MBA unless it was on top of another advanced degree, such as MD, MBA.

        1. I’ve seen some CPA MBA, CPA MBT, CPA JD MBT MBA, etc in my life, but rarely just an MBA (and certainly NEVER a BA!!). Then again, pretty much everyone I run across in my professional life is a CPA, where it is standard to list CPA after our name.

          1. My professional life is mostly MD, PhD, and PharmD and these are always listed, regardless of your company or position.

      1. I’d think the ONLY exception is if you were working in a field where being a JD was unusual and somehow special. But if you’re working as an attorney, its kind of a given. And adding “BA” after your name, even if its in Engineering, is douchy full-stop.

        1. Can you even get a BA in Engineering? I thought they were all BS. (Bad-dam ching)

          Seriously, though – the letters only become important if the degree they represent is somehow pertinent to the thing the name is being signed. Like, something from a doctor that is all medical-y, I would not be put off by seeing M.D. Or testimony on something from someone with a Ph.D. I would not use degree letters for anything in the normal course of correspondence.

          2. For engineering, there is BS and BE, as well as MS and ME (I guess there are BAs and MAs as well, whatever). Regardless, you’d look like a major chump if you listed your degree after your name. Licenses only. So PE, PMP, PTP, LEED AP, etc, etc, etc.

    5. Frankly, I’ve never even considered adding “J.D.,” let alone, “B.A.” after my name. If I saw either or both of those appended to someone’s name on, say, a business card or a resume, I would be annoyed.

    6. I think it depends on the context. When it is obvious that you are a lawyer, the db alarm in my mind goes off when I see “, J.D.” or “, Esq.” tacked on. However, if you are addressing a mixed group of people who may or may not know what you do (for instance, an e-mail response to a non-law list-serve) and your suffix would establish that you have a background in the subject-matter, then it makes sense. As far as undergraduate degrees, I have yet to see a “B.A.” reference that didn’t make me think the person was a tool. Double negative points if the person also lists the school said B.A. is from.

      So I guess my rule of thumb is: Generally skip the educational suffixes, but do add it if it lends credence to what you are saying in a situation where your authority on the subject may be unclear.

    8. Thanks for your input!!

      In light of that, I have declined to list my degrees on my cards. Cheers!

    9. Holy crap yes… Plus my alarm bells would be going off if I saw JD instead of Esq. (I hate esq to but understand why sometimes people put it on. I got a letter the other day from a law clerk that used it and I’m assuming its to let people know he is not a student even though his position is clerk. If I saw JD instead I would be thinking waiting for the bar or didn’t pass the bar.

      And I can’t even imagine seeing an undergrad degree listed I don’t think I have ever seen it.

      1. I was always told by my judge that you should never put “Esquire” after your name, even on court pleadings (your bar number signals that you are a lawyer). He said it was tacky. However, when you are addressing letters to other lawyers, you should always put “Esquire” after their names.

        1. This is the only place I’ve seen Esquire used is in official correspondence between lawyers (I still think its silly but it seems to be de rigueur).

        2. Right I’ve only seen it in the letter context. When your position is under your name (like in government) I think there is no need to put esq.

      2. I am in Canada and as far as I know, lawyers do not put Esq. behind their names so I don’t know what this stands for. As well, I think it is more common (in my province, anyway) for lawyers to put J.D. after their name.

        1. Oh, I think I am catching on to what J.D. means in the United States (I’m assuming that is where half of the commentators are from). In Canada, a J.D. means a law degree, regardless of whether you have passed the bar.

          1. Ha, I should form a full answer before I post multiple times.

            As a further explanation, my fellow articling student and I are contemplating what to put on our business cards because we will soon be lawyers. Not because we are trying to pass ourselves off as actual lawyers. I still have a whole box full of student-at-law business cards that I will not be able to use up before I become a lawyer.

    10. Seeing “JD” tacked on at the end of a signature signals to me that this person wants me to know he’s a law graduate, but he hasn’t passed the bar yet. It can be useful, depending on the context, to let people know you are a law graduate if your job title doesn’t make it clear. For instance, when I was doing a fellowship and before I had bar results, often clients wanted to deal with someone with a law degree and were happy to see JD on my card.

      I can’t think of a situation where BA would be helpful or necessary.

    11. Back when I edited a directory of municipal officials (mayors, city clerks, fire chiefs, etc.), we had a policy of not including degrees after names, or honorifics before names.

      The only people who objected were those who had PhDs in education, who insisted on being Dr. So-and-So. A number REFUSED to be included if their title wasn’t used. It was annoying. (And if you work in a public servant role, you can’t refuse to be listed in a directory. Sorry.)

      1. And sorry, but a doctorate in education is not the world’s most rigorous degree…

    12. People who are not currently licensed to practice law (law grad who haven’t passed the bar, inactive-status bar members) need to be super careful about calling themselves a lawyer or even just using JD or Esq.

      http://www.abajournal.com/magazine/article/tussle_over_titles/

      I, personally, think it’s really idiotic to add credentials after my name. First, most people don’t know what the heck they all mean. Second, the people that do know probably have the same credentials as you and are not impressed.

      When I see law career services people using “Esq.” or “JD”, I see it as a misguided attempt to “fit in” with practicing lawyers. Yes, they might technically be lawyers, but if they aren’t practicing, I really don’t care. Same goes for law professors (unless they run a clinic or some such).

    13. I think it’s pretentious unless your degree is not obvious from your job title. So JD for a lawyer is pretentious, but BSN is not pretentious for a nurse or a lawyer who also has that nursing degree. SJD, LLM, MD, or PhD would not necessarily be pretentious for a lawyer either but would tend to lead me to question the lawyer’s sanity.

    14. Yes. Even worse is the use of Esq. So pretentious. Unless you practice in Britain, then maybe you can use Esq.

    15. It depends?
      I’m in academia so letters abound! (Pretentiousness too…) Within the university, people will put what degrees they have and what degree they are attaining. If they’re not obtaining a degree they normally list the highest one they have.
      (Jane Doe MSE
      Ph.D candidate, Material Science
      Awesome University)
      I’ve seen B.A or B.S, but normally those are from undergraduates (listing the highest degree). Non-undergraduates that put a Bachelors in their signature tend to follow it with WHERE they received it, and that’s the somewhat douche-y part. (Greaaaaaat you went MIT/Princeton, congrats on being a douche!)

      1. EDIT:
        Sorry, I should add that personally, I have M.A. listed in my student email for university communication, but my work email just has my name and job title.

    16. Kinda late, but we are 100% told to not add any letters, unless it’s like an MBA or P.Eng. I’m also an articling student, for reference.

      1. MBA here. It’s considered poor form. Alarm bells go off if I see anyone touting that on a card or correspondence.

  22. There’s an interesting discussion on lying about your age going on at CapHillStyle.
    http://www.caphillstyle.com/capitol/2012/3/9/discuss-aging-gracefully-or-maybe-not.html#comments

    Thought you ladies might be interested in reading it – and here’s the response I posted:

    I actually don’t disclose my age because I want people to think I’m older than I am, in the professional context at least. I was a bit young when I graduated from high school, but really I just was very successful very early in my career and am now occupying a position where most of my peers are 5-8 years older than me. If people junior to me at work knew I was their age (or in some cases a bit younger) and getting a lot more responsibility (and making a lot more) than they do, I think they’d lose respect for me or feel bitter/suspect favoritism. In fact, I’ve worked hard and I’m very good at my job; yes, I’m lucky to have gotten into an industry I’m very good at, but I haven’t benefited from connections or favoritism. Even outside the office, I am fairly well known in my field and have published a lot. I just don’t think I’d be viewed as authoritative if people knew I’m only 29. So I don’t have my graduation year included in my bio, and if people ask me how old I am, I usually respond “old enough not to have to answer” and laugh it off. I think most people assume I’m around 35 and that’s a-ok with me.

    1. I have the opposite problem, and unlike Jessica Chastain, it really isn’t a benefit to me to be viewed as younger than I am. I went to law school in my late 20s and look young, so people tend to think I am probably in my late 20s now, when I’m actually in my mid-30s. I only bring it up when people make comments about how I’d be too young to remember X or Y, when in many cases I am almost the same age as the person making the comment.

      I did find that I had the same attitude as Jessica when I was in law school, as it seemed like there were very few women in my class who were around my age. If people wanted to think I was 25, then I just let them.

    2. I’m older than a lot of people in my year (biglaw firm) and even those a few years ahead of me, but I don’t care. I went back to law school when I was older, and I don’t care if someone is younger than me and a more senior associate – that’s the way the cookie crumbles. Honestly, the only time I even think about it is when that more senior associate is acting immaturely (and then I wonder how old they are). But, I do have a friend who gets kind of hostile about it when someone is more senior but the same age or younger (then again, she gets hostile about a lot of things).

      1. Yeah. I teach, which is part of it. Even though I am definitely qualified to teach (which is why I got hired), I frankly think my students would discredit me if they knew I’m younger than them.

    3. I look very young and now I am doing my best to look more mature. With no make up, no heels and non-office appropriate wear, people assume I am 16.
      I am just shy of 26, but I have started working before finishing my masters degree.
      Now I am at a responsibility/pay level which is on the higher (est) curve of my peers for a much “younger” age.
      I do not lie about my age, but I simply do not disclose it.
      I always dodge the questions about how long I have been at the company or what year I graduated.

      1. I have the same problem. I have actually been carded for sitting in the exit row on a plane (you have to be 16) because I wasn’t wearing make up. I have since maintained that I need to wear at least some make up or else risk being thought of as a teenager.

    4. Interesting. I have the opposite problem, I’m 38 but I look 27. But, I often feel like I have to come clean about my age when people treat me as though I am 27, and lacking in life experience (I think this is because the appearance of my age plus the fact that I’m a 3L). It’s become a bit awkward when working with employers who are in their mid-30’s and are trying to “help” me by telling me what life’s like when you get older and have “real” responsibilities.

      1. That is my issue. I am 37 but occasionally still get carded. It is downright annoying so I am constantly trying to dress older. And although I love my long hair (and wear it up most of the time to appear less girlish), I have been wondering lately whether I ought to chop it all off in the hopes that it will help. I keep telling myself I will love looking young when I get to be 50.

        1. Yeah. I am also too thin for my clothes, have so much money I don’t know what to do with it, and am so smart I feel self-conscious around others. Life is rough.

          2. Wow, even though this was a really nasty comment, I can’t help feeling a bit pleased – the first time I’ve been trolled! So exciting!

        2. I too look younger than I am and it’s not the best thing for my career. I chopped off my hair recently to chin-length bob. It has not helped! I still have older women tell me how young I look and imploring that I can’t possibly be an attorney. So don’t cut off your hair for this reason only – do it only if you genuinely want shorter hair. I like my bob, but I was definitely thinking it would make me look older. I’ll just have to wait for gray hairs!

        3. I made the nasty comment–sorry it came off so sarcastic! I am certainly not trolling. I am a 25-yr-old woman, regular reader of this blog, and am just genuinely surprised that people are annoyed about looking younger than they are. It really, truly does sound like “champagne problems” to me. And when people complain about it, I can’t help feeling that their complaints are lined with a sliver of boastfulness. That is all.

          In a perfect world, we’d all embrace aging and the benefits that come with it. But sadly, we live in a world that glorifies youth and beauty so much that women will spend their last penny and last ounce of self-respect to hold onto it. Maybe that’s not you–and if it’s not, good for you for rising above it. But the sad truth is, most of us dread aging in a culture that highly values women for their looks, however wrong that may be. So to complain about one’s youthful appearance, seems, well, more than slightly disingenous to me.

          In the future I will refrain from such scathing sarcasm, though.

          1. Sorry I thought you were a troll.

            Honestly, this is not a “champagne problem” for me. I am in an industry where experience and age are valued. It is a solid fact that clients pay more attention to advisers with greyer hair, so it honestly would be a benefit to me to look older. I am not a proponent of the “youth and beauty” culture and don’t dread getting older in the least. I certainly don’t mean to be boastful either, because I don’t see my situation as a good thing, especially in the professional context. Granted, there are many, far greater problems in the world than this one little issue of mine, but for me it does factor into my career and is therefore important to me.

            And, for the record, I have gotten lots of hips since the age of 28, have loans to pay off just like many other people on here, and am humbled by all the smart people I run into every day.

          2. In some industries, looking 25 is an asset. In others, looking 25 will be an obstacle that impedes your career. You may be given fewer responsibilities, little supervisory experience, and not be promoted as fast as an “older” looker person who “matches” the views of what a manager/partner/leader should look like. So yes, while Vogue and the next-door neighboor may be saluting you for looking 10 years younger than you are, it can have real financial and career advancement reprecussions. I don’t call that a “champagne problem.” Having said that, I’m in an industry where significant experience in highly valued, and people who look young just aren’t given credit for having that experience – even if they do.

          3. Fair enough. I honestly never realized that it was a problem. I’ve only ever read studies showing that more “attractive” people do better in their careers, and for some people, “attractive” and “young” are synonymous. But, I am glad to see that there are so many women not only embracing but happy about aging. It’s a perspective that I need, given how much I am dreading it.

            Here’s an interesting question: would you ever be open to dying your hair gray in order to look older? This conversation has gotten me thinking, and I am wondering if that’s something people do.

          4. Wow. Seriously. I really take issue with your comments and your short sightedness is irritating and a bit appalling. It is a workplace issue when women are treated in a patronizing manner because they appear young. Judge me for me work product and my attitude, but please, for the love of Pete, stop judging me because, as a woman, I am: too pretty-not pretty enough, too slim-not slim enough, my hair is too short- not long enough, I am too family focused – not family focused enough, I am t00 outspoken- not outspoken enough, I look young- I don’t look old enough.

            I didn’t even mention my own feelings about aging, but for whatever reason, you went right there. My issue is with being nearly 40, but having people relate to me as though I’m in my late 20s. Can you stop for a minute and imagine what that is like? It’s as though I’m constantly being treated as a child among people I AM OLDER THAN who do not even consider me to be their age or career peers. I’ve been married for 11 years, have owned multiple homes, struggled with loss and infertility, traveled a good deal of the world, have a child, am adopting a child, had a career but then left it to pursue a JD. I’m a shareholder in a corporation and I’ve personally fired more people than I can count. I am at the age where I feel like I have lived a great deal of my life, and to be treated – on a regular basis – by employers who are YEARS younger than me – as though I lack experience in life is not only frustrating but insulting.

            Champagne problems? Up yours.

          5. cut her some slack. You have a right to your feelings as she does to her opinion. There are plenty of people that look young for their age and are treated with respect and as if their opinion is valued. How you interact with people determines these things, not how you look.

      2. I can understand how annoyting that would be but I hope when I am 38 I still look 27!! :)

    5. interesting discussion. i’m with you – for now, i prefer when people assume i am older than i am. i turned 30 this year and felt like it finally gave me a little street cred – even though 30 is still quite young, i felt like being in my 20s automatically resulted in less respect. it’s rough, because it seems like there is only a brief period, maybe mid-30s, where you’re in a magic spot where you’re old enough to have a useful amount of experience, but not “getting old” yet.

      1. Agree 100%. It seemed even at 29 people assumed I was not qualified to do the job I’d been doing well for 3 years. I know 3 years isn’t a long time compared to where I’ll be 25 years from now (although at that firm it felt like a lifetime!) but it was long enough that it irritated me when clients with absolutely no competency in law would question whether I knew enough to deal with their (usually quite small) problem. I know a client never thinks their issue is easy or small, but there you have it.

        The only time it didn’t irritate me was when I WAS in way over my head (murder case with very complicated and technical circumstances…and I don’t practice criminal law!) and I begged the partner in my group to put a senior attorney on the case or take it himself since he was supposed to be our criminal specialist. I actually told that client they SHOULD call my firm and complain, even though I ended up getting a lot of flack for it.

        I actually don’t think I look young, though I do still get carded I never know if that’s because the people I’m with look young or because the server thinks it flatters me or whatever, but once people hear I graduated in 2008 and was born in ’82 it’s like I lose 50 IQ points in their eyes.

    6. I usually look them in the eye and say “old enough to know better than to answer that”.
      Gets them flustered every time.

    7. Trust me that will change when you get older and you will be glad you look younger. I am mid-40’s and people usually guess me at mid-30’s. New hires often tell me that they can’t place how old I am, which I think is nice. I’m in a senior position but I don’t have gray hair and I have good skin. I feel lucky!

  23. Guys, I’ve realized something terrible about myself. I may have to kick myself off of Corporette for real…I hate shopping. I cannot stand it. At all. I’ve been cruising through all of the super awesome places where I can score deals and where I can pay more money than I ever want to but I just HATE IT. And I need clothes. And shoes. And dresses. And pajamas. And bras and underwear. So basically, everything except shirts, which I have too many of.

    Also, Daffy’s on 34th, you have TERRIBLE dressing rooms. Get with the program, hang up some doors to replace the curtains that aren’t wide enough for the stalls.

    1. It’s ok, honey. We’ll shop for you! I cannot relate because I generally love shopping. I stalk shoes and bags online. Have way too many clothes and shoes.

      1. See, I used to love it, I really did. And I became this clothes and shoes and bag hoarder and would buy all the things. I’m still really excellent at buying crap I don’t need but stuff I do need (there are very visible holes in my attire) is impossible for me to find. I miss my love for shopping.

    2. I can relate. I can’t stand places like Marshalls and TJ Maxx – there’s just too much stuff and it overwhelms me. Even Macys can get a bit overwhelming. Which is how I ended up with an entire wardrobe from the Gap – they were smaller, self-contained, I knew their stuff fit (more or less) and it kind of fit my style. I’ve branched out a bit since then, but not a ton. I figure it saves me money because I usually can’t decide what to buy.

      1. My entire wardrobe is basically from the Gap. It’s just easier for me to shop there; less stress, reasonable prices, and I know my size. I have every color of their dress pants for work and every color of a specific fit of jeans for the weekend. And my weekend tops are all Gap cotton jerseys. Boring but I just don’t care right now!

        1. I love Vince Camuto shoes, but so many of them have spiked studs. It’s a little crazy.

      8. i almost bought a pair of sam edelman spiked shoes while in vegas last year – nude, not leopard. i love these, in theory.

      10. You know, those shoes would be *perfect* for field visits. Would totally show people I mean BIZNIS.

    4. hate it too and been to Daffy’s on 44th and not only do their dressing rooms s*ck too, they lock their multi-stall bathrooms so you have to ask an employee to unlock them and then they wait IN THE BATHROOM til you’re done so they can relock it. arg!

      I’ve found luck buying bras/undies from Aerie (oddly enough), pj’s are easy to fit so pants and big tshirts from target or old tshirts work fine, not sure whether you’re a fit that can buy clothes/shoes online but it might be worth a shot… online shopping is the only way I ever get anything new (which is probably why I own 2 pairs of dress shoes and 3 pairs of work pants that fit lol)

      1. I could go online shopping but I’m also too lazy to go to the post office to return stuff if I don’t want them. Blergh. But dress shoes, I didn’t forget – I have many almost new shoes that I’m dumping to you – they just don’t work for me out in the swamp/marshland that I’m trekking through on a weekly basis now.

    5. Me too. I hate it. I have not bought anything (other than groceries and drugstore stuff) in a not-online store in… a year? more than that? And I will not go into a Target or Walmart-type store if my life depends on it. No way.

    6. I refuse to go to Daffy’s and I’ll happily shop pretty much every other discount retailer.

    7. It’s okay, Godzilla. Dressing and shopping are two completely different activities. Obviously, they are related, but not the same.

      From yesterday’s “What comments do you read?” thread, I learned that lots of ladies come here for vastly different reasons, and the fashion part is minor for some. So you can keep your Corporette sash, but you might not earn your Shopping badge.

      But you’re good enough, you’re smart enough, and gosh darn it, people LIKE you.

    8. I loathe shopping. Especially in person. And on-line shopping is such a cr*p-shoot.

    9. You are the perfect candidate for personal shopper services. I’d use Nordstrom but Macy’s has them too. Call and make an appointment, tell the shopper what you need, and when you get there (if your shopper is any good) you’ll be in a big dressing room with many suggested items already pulled for you. As you try things on and either accept or reject them, your shopper will run for different sizes or styles based on what’s working for you. All it will take is a day of your time, and probably more money than you want to spend, but if you tell your shopper what your budget is, she will really try to stick to it (in my experience.)

      1. I don’t know why this never occurred to me before. I’m supremely talented at picking out stuff I don’t need (hello super polyester orange blazer at JCP) but stuff I need is really hard to find.

        1. I’ve seen that blazer and it looks so cute in the catalog and in the store but so not necessary in real life. I did buy a great kelly green button front shirt there and 2 casual weekend sweaters. I just happened to park outside of pennys and of course browsed on my way through.

    10. I not only love shopping for myself, I especially love shopping for other people. If you need a personal shopper, I offer up my services. I’m not a professional by any means, but in my dream world this would be the job I would have. I end up doing it for all my friends and family anyways, it wouldn’t be a burden to add you to my list. :)

    11. Oh no, you are not alone. I actually think that’s why I LIKE Corporette, Kat starts the shopping for me! I hate trying things on, I hate malls for sure, I hate chatty salespeople, quite honestly it just seems like a huge waste of time. But it is necessary, and I like to think that by being on here and doing some online perusing I am cutting down on the time actually spent in stores. Hopefully?

      I’m also hoping that if I lose some weight I’ll enjoy it, but I never have, even when I was thinner. Again, just a huge waste of time that could be used somewhere else!

    12. OMG, that Daffy’s is terrible. Almost as bad as that Daffy’s are several of the ZARA changing rooms (esp. the one on 34th between 6th & 5th).

  24. OK, everyone, there was some banter last night about holding a giant ‘Ette gathering, and there was further banter about holding it in some idyllic location such as Whistler or Banff (I know, I’m biased). Now, obviously if we were to do such a thing, it would have to have Kat’s blessing and her direct involvement, but at the moment I am interested in knowing whether people would actually be genuinely interested in attending an event – i.e. was it just banter or is it something that people would like to look into further? Vote yea or nay below. Thank you!

    1. I vote yea. If we can have CLE-approval, I can use my CLE budget to pay for the trip.

    4. I’d go if I can and have a job and stuff, but can I say that Banff (while beautiful and awesome and OMG whistler is great) is probably REALLY hard to get to for about 98% of ‘etters.

      1. Yes, looking at that map, although I am heavily prejudiced in favour of the PNW, I have to admit we are probably looking at something a little further east.

    6. I’m in. And I love Montreal, I did my first degree there, soo….yeah. I’d attend.

    9. Yes, definitely. I’m not a blogger, and I’m certainly not hip to incredible design/lifestyle design/edgy fashion so I feel like I wouldn’t fit in at Alt Design Summit and things like that — but I ended up looking at pictures after the fact and wishing there were an event/conference for professional/corporate/office job all-around cool women I could go to instead. This would be that!

  25. I just want to say for the record that I hate the “half tucked” look. You know, where a model or a blogger has their shirt tucked in in the front, but the tail of the shirt is loose in the back.

    That is all.

    2. I feel like my parents used to make fun of me when I did that the first time ’round (early 90s?). Of course, the blouse was 6 sizes too big for me and I was wearing combat boots and had teased, hairsprayed bangs, too.

    3. I totally half-tucked in the early 90s, with my colored jeans that are also oh-so-popular now!

  26. Does anyone have any experience with ordering J Crew factory items online? They have a 30% off sale right now but it I am concerned it will be of a very inferior quality as compared to the normal store merchandise. The prices are enticing though. For example, I love the Tippi and Jackie sweaters but the factory online store has a Thandie sweater that looks similar but is only $44.50. Any one have any advice?

    1. The quality is generally inferior, but not for all items and not alway significantly. If it is 44.50 after the 30% I’d pass, before I’d bite.

  27. Just have to say, I saw this top at Old Navy the other day and to me it looked very cheap. I can’t imagine wearing this to work.

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