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Updated: Sep 30, 2022 232 Comments · by

Frugal Friday’s Workwear Report: Office Cardigan Jacket

The Personal Shopper (TPS)

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Black open front blazer

Our daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices.

When shopping on Amazon, I tend to put more stock in the buyer photos than the written reviews, and the ones posted with this cardigan look promising! If you’re looking for a topper in a slightly different cut than the typical sweater jackets we’ve seen, I like this cutaway style, particularly in the darker colors. I would keep the black on hand to toss over a too-casual outfit for a surprise meeting, or the gray plaid to wear with dark jeans and a white tee.

The cardigan is under $50 at Amazon and comes in XS-XXL.

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Pssst: we just updated our Hunt for sweater jackets for the office!

collage of 5 women wearing the best sweater jackets for the office in 2023-24
Pictured above, great sweater jackets for the office as of 2024: black* / olive* / black* / navy / black (also this $70 one, this $525 one, and Kat loves this one*!) (* available in plus sizes; see our roundup for more)

Sales of note for 9.30.24

About Elizabeth

Elizabeth is a 30-something lawyer living on the East Coast. She spent seven years as a Biglaw associate in NYC, three years as a partner at a medium-sized firm, and is now in-house counsel for a large company. She loves Diet Coke, '90s sitcoms, and dresses with pockets.

Comments

  1. Emily

    I am solo traveling in Europe for a month and spent the last week in Florence, where I was lucky enough to take a tour from Senior Attorney’s friend Claire. I cannot recommend her highly enough! She is extremely knowledgeable about Florentine history and I learned a lot, but more than that, she’s just fun to spend time with. We had a lively, hilarious discussion of the reasons behind the minimal endowments of the male statues scattered across the city – not something you’d get on a standard tour! If you’re in Florence, look her up: claireintheworld dot net.
    I’m off to London in a few days and would love to do a similar 1:1 walking tour. I love British history and royal history. I’ll take any recommendations you have, for tours or guides or restaurants or sights to see.
    Finally, a recommendation for Paris: I stayed at the Hotel Monge on this board’s recommendation and I can’t praise it highly enough. It is the cutest boutique hotel, very well appointed and great location, and very kind staff. I’m staying there again at the end of my trip because I enjoyed it so much. I thought it was also significantly underpriced, perhaps because the metro runs right underneath it and it is noticeable. But I lived on top of BART for three years in law school so the low rumbling of a train passing doesn’t bother me at all and often lulls me to sleep.

    • Anon

      I’m a big fan of the Ladies Who London podcast. The two hosts are delightful. They’re both tour guides (they started the podcast during lockdown when they couldn’t give tours) and I’m sure do 1:1 tours.

    • Velma

      Re: London: This guy: https://www.walks.com/guides/simon/ I can’t for the life of me recall his last name, but this services is one way to book Simon. My husband is a faculty member who sometimes teaches U.S. students in London. Simon is an actor and director and as scholarly as you want him to be. Various U.S. universities’ London Centres use him for student walking tours.

      He is charming, versed in history with a deep sense of London across time, and able to field in-depth questions about just about anything you see. I’m a PhD in English and hired him to take me and a friend on a walk of Dickens and Bloomsbury sites. I was very impressed with his knowledge of the 19th- and 20th-c publishing industry.

    • Panda Bear

      Good for you and thanks for the recs! I was just in London a couple weeks ago. Two things I loved: the jewelry exhibit at the Victoria and Albert Museum, and the theatrical tour of the Dennis Sever House. The latter may not be everyone’s cup of tea – it is intimate and whimsical – but if you like theater, history, and old houses, you might fall in love.

    • Cat

      Look into joining the Historic Royal Palaces society – the covered or discounted entry applies to Hampton Court, KP, and the Tower as well as one or two others IIRC. They also offer tours that go behind the scenes more than the usual.

    • Ribena

      Not the same kind of tour, but I took a food walking tour from No Diet Club in Nice earlier this week and the list of cities they operate in includes London. I would HIGHLY recommend it – loads of stuff I would never have found myself and I learnt tonnes

    • Is it Friday yet?

      I have definitely recommended Hotel Monge here after staying there last year – so glad you loved it too!

    • Senior Attorney

      Haha so happy you and Claire hooked up! I was just with her two weeks ago and we had the same statuary discussion — once you see it you can’t unsee it! Also we had the “wait… YOU’RE Senior Attorney??!” moment, and that was hilarious, too.

      I don’t have any specific recommendations for London but I’ve always had great luck with toursbylocals dot com, everywhere in the world. And Sketch for tea, of course.

    • Anononon

      Go to Kiln for great Laotian food and Yautcha for Michelin-starred (but still affordable) dim sum any time of day. Be warned: Kiln is an open kitchen and your clothes will smell like a wood fire after. Also look into joining the “cultureseekers” meetup group. When I lived in London I joined them for all sorts of fun, off the beaten track sightseeing. There are also so, so many good cocktail bars. The bartenders at Bar Swift in Soho are incredibly kind and take good care of solo female travelers, complete with recommendations about all sorts of fun things to do around town. Satan’s Whiskers is similar but in a more funky neighborhood. Tayer + Elementary is extremely cool.

  3. Anon

    I have a young adult family member who needs cute fall / winter tops. She has some mobility and nerve damage issues, so feeding can be hard, so it would be important that everything be washable, fairly hard to stain (so polyester blends are OK), warm and cozy (a lot of cheaper clothes have turned out to be neither) and also hopefully cute for a 20ish person. I know this is a long wishlist, but where should I start looking?

    • anonymous

      Kohls, Macys, Target or Old Navy come to mind. I have some cozy long sleeve tops from Kohls that I wear a lot in the fall/winter. I think they are the Sonoma brand.

      • Anon

        OP here. Thanks for all of the suggestions. Kicking myself for not thinking of heattech.

        • Flats Only

          And this year’s HeatTech Extra Warm are REALLY warm – they have a fuzzy, fleecy lining.

    • Vicky Austin

      Tommy Hilfiger has a line of adaptive clothes that seem to mostly be cotton, but are cute, machine washable and look cozy. Depending on what her mobility is like, the clothes might make getting dressed easier too.

      I would also consider Quince’s washable silk. Mine cleans like a dream with a Tide pen for bad stains, a gentle cycle and hang dry. If that isn’t too much burden to place on your family member and any caregivers she might have, silk is a time-honored underlayer for warmth! They also have some “brushed lounge tees” and fleece shirt jackets right now – I haven’t tried those but I trust Quince’s quality generally, and the fleece is both machine wash and dry.

    • Anon

      I think a flannel would fit this bill. Old navy has some cute ones. If you want to spend a little more, I have some flannel tunics from Lands end that I lived in last winter.
      The pattern will also help hide any stains.

      • pugsnbourbon

        I’ve got my eye on the Plush Long-Sleeve Rib-Knit Slim-Fit T-shirts from Old Navy. They come in 15 colors and look pretty cozy.

    • LaurenB

      This may or may not be relevant, but I had a friend in a shoulder / arm cast after a significant injury, and she lived in ponchos, which kept her warm and cozy and were cute. She ordered a bunch off Amazon so I’m sure they are at all price points.

      • Anon

        Oooh // I think I want a poncho for me. There places to go for nice vs campy or crap acrylic ones?

      • Anon

        A J Crew turtleneck poncho was all over my social media earlier this week (I didn’t pull the trigger only because the turtleneck looked bulky, and it’s just too hot here for that sort of nonsense), which led to me looking at ponchos from other similarly-priced retailers. Ponchos must be having a moment, because I found tons.

    • Anne-on

      Boden, Jcrew Factory/Jcrew, Joules, LLBean, and Abercrombie would be some of my first places to look at. I’d also say if she (or her carers) can start hanging sweaters/drying on low they’ll likely last longer.

      • Anonymous

        I have a number of LL Bean cotton sweatshirt type tops that look more like a sweater. They wear like iron, and have never had a problem with a stain not coming out. Not sure if they would appeal to a 20 year contract or, but I love them and have the same one in a few colours – cozy mixed knit pullover.

        • Anon

          suggest looking at bibs. before you write it off, look at etsy bib scarf.

          they are fashionable fabrics available without the shame or shyness a regular bib might cause.

          • Anon

            I didn’t know about these — very interesting. Will tuck this away for possible future use. Thx.

  4. Anon

    DC to NY help – I have a family event in Long Island and will be traveling from DC. In the before times, this would be a no brainer but staying home for years has changed me in weird ways. So, is it easy to get from Long Island to Manhattan? I’ll be with my mom who cannot walk long distances and my 8 year old. Hoping to drive or take the train up on Friday, event on Saturday, then maybe squeeze in some sightseeing in Manhattan on Saturday afternoon or Sunday morning and then back home. Is this too much? Drive or take the train? Thanks!!

        • Anonymous

          The port Jeff line isn’t running weekends due to track work for the new grand central extension.So it looks like they are routing Hicksville trains all the way to Babylon and you’d have to transfer from there. This adds an hour to your typical train from Hicksville to penn, I’d skip it or play around and see if you could drive somewhere where trains are running directly (probably east of Hicksville still.)

          Sorry for the inconvenience but OMG yay for the idea of taking an lirr train to grand central! Have fun!
          Xoxo
          Long Island

    • AIMS

      It’s easy enough if you can drive to the train station. LIRR schedules are online and you would be let off in Penn Station, most likely – although check to see if Grand Central access has opened yet.

      You can also drive in but parking may be a pain depending on where you want to go. If you do drive, spothero is a good app to find discount parking.

    • Kateanon

      The LIRR travels the length of Long Island, so as long as you can drive or get a ride to the train station you can take the train. Whether it’s feasible as a day trip completely depends on where you are on the island. The easternmost tip, Montauk, is three hours (each way) from Manhattan. The westernmost tip is just outside it.

    • Alanna of Trebond

      I would not suggest messing around with discount parking if you are driving in. There are tons of garages all around Manhattan and they are very overpriced. Assume that you will pay $40 for parking and valet park in one of these garages. Otherwise, take the train.

  5. Anon

    I clench my jaw at night when I sleep and wake up with headaches. For anyone who has gotten Botox for this – what kind of place do you go to get this done? Dentist, doctor, etc?

      • Anonon

        I’m amazed that anyone can sleep in a mouth guard.

        Even if I didn’t remember taking it out, I have never woken up with one still in my mouth.

        • Anon

          Isn’t it just like a retainer? I’ve worn a retainer at night since I got my braces off as a teen.

        • anon a mouse

          Same, I had one from my dentist and gave it up after I woke up in the middle of the night nearly choking on it. Dentist said that was pretty unusual, but it freaked me out.

          OP, I get regular head and jaw massages from my masseuse which helps a lot too. A 30-minute session every other week makes a big difference in my overall tension.

      • Anonymous

        Agreed. I had considered botox, but the mouthguard has helped immensely (and protects my teeth).

        • anon

          I have been told if you can push the mouth guard out involuntarily, it’s not fitted appropriately. I have been through several guards and it usually takes a couple of appointments to get them fitted correctly, so I can’t push them out. I also use hard guards vs. soft guards and if they fit, they’re almost impossible to budge. Any amount of clenching/grinding will wear down teeth and while massages or Botox can help with the jaw/head tension, they won’t protect your teeth if you do any clenching or grinding. And I sometimes do it during the day and have to put my mouth guard in to stop myself.

    • No Face

      Do you have a primary care physician? I would start there and ask for advice.

    • Betsy

      Mouth guard definitely helps, but get it done properly by your dentist. Mine got worse when I tried one of the boil and mold ones from the drugstore. My dentist says that’s actually common, because it’s pretty squishy and so your instinct is to bite down on it. It took me a few nights to get used to the hard plastic one from my dentist, but it really helps and now I have trouble sleeping without it.

      I’ve also found it’s really helpful to give myself a good jaw massage when I’m washing my face, just to help let some tension out. The other piece of advice that I saw here is to pay attention to your posture. If you go from hunching over to sitting up straight and looking ahead of you, you’ll feel your jaw relax a bit!

      I haven’t done Botox for it, but got the impression when I was first struggling with this that Botox was seen as a bit of a last resort. I get that, because all of my stress currently gets stored in my jaw. Botox might help that, but the stress would just go somewhere else instead.

      • pugsnbourbon

        +1. Using a nice-smelling lotion to massage my face, neck and shoulders really helps me. I should be a lot more consistent with my mouthguard!

    • ALT

      I have both a dentist-fitted mouth guard and have done Botox for this. I got my Botox done at the dentist and felt very comfortable with that since he knew exactly where to inject it for the specific muscles that clench, how much to inject in order to start and how often it will need to be done. I would feel less comfortable going to a medspa or somewhere similar where they focus on aesthetic Botox.

      If your dentist doesn’t do the jaw Botox, ask who they would recommend and where they would recommend going.

      Also get a mouthguard!!! I can almost guarantee that if you’re clenching, you’re also grinding your teeth. I have clenched literal dents on my mouthguard (it’s the hard plastic kind) but it helps so much.

      • Anon

        What did the Botox for the jaw do to your appearance? Just curious if it made anything saggy or other issues?

        • ATL

          I only had it once, so probably not the best point of reference, but no change to my appearance. I don’t have a very square lower face, so I was kind of hoping for a more chiseled appearance (lol) but I look exactly the same. My dentist did say that if I continue to do it, it would soften the masseter muscle and I’d have a softer jawline.

    • Anon

      Definitely get one made my your dentist. Have them use a harder plastic. There’s no way my mouth guard is coming out unless I wedge a finger under it and pry it out.

    • Jaw Botox

      I also clench my jaw and grind my teeth when I’m stressed, but was never able to sleep with a mouthguard, even a professionally fitted one. The issue was with it making me so uncomfortable that I couldn’t sleep, not as much with falling out. My dentist recommended getting Botox in my jaw, and I’ve had it done three times at the dentist’s office. The first two times I was very happy with the results, but the third time a different dentist did the injection slightly off from where it should have been, and I couldn’t smile for like a month. If I get it done again, I’ll go to a nurse practitioner who is a highly skilled and experienced injector. She works at a medspa and is trained in both aesthetic and therapeutic uses for Botox. My insurance wouldn’t cover it even if I do get it done at the dentist’s office, so there really wasn’t any advantage to going that route.

    • Meara

      I got Botox done for this! At an oral/dental surgeons office. I’ve had it done twice and am contemplating a third time. Much like some others, I inevitably spit out a mouth guard (after having nightmares about my mouth being full of gum!). I do think it helped but it was also HELLA expensive—i forget how many units vs how much per unit but it totalled about $900 the second time (when I got a few more than the first time). Worth it? Maybe. If it were half the price I’d do it in a heartbeat but for almost $1k every 3-4 months it’s a bit harder of a sell.

      • ATL

        Oooh yeah mine was like this. I got the lowest dose and it was 60 units for $700…the idea of paying that much every 3 months is sickening to me

  6. Hiring Process Q

    Question for hiring managers. I’m in a large, global company and I am the hiring manger for my local office’s vertical’s internship program. The post was up for three weeks and just came down. As far as I know there’s no way to identify me personally as the hiring manager (I’m in a vertical of 60 locally, albeit one of the more senior by title). In that time that it was live I have received SO MANY direct emails, a handful of calls and zillions of linkedin messages from applicants. The vast majority indicated they applied and were hoping to speak to me live to learn more about the company/job/etc separate and apart from the interview process.

    My personal stance is no sidebar conversations during an active hiring process with applicants. I make sure my team also adheres to that. Among my reasons is that there are too many of us on my team to manage messaging as tightly as necessary given it’s an active hiring process, so no contact is better. Plus we’ve had instances of more junior folks basically “giving away the answers” to the interview questions in these conversations which is unfair to the broader applicant pool. But just curious if that’s the norm / what others would do – are students expecting and are other employers granting these kinds of connections in the face of an active application process? Am I too strict in going no-contact with candidates?

    To be clear, I realize times are tough and competition is high, so these students are probably just doing whatever they can to stand out – I don’t hold it against them. Just curious what others thing / how they handle these types of outreach. This happens each year but the volume this year was just insane.

    • anonshmanon

      for me it comes down to equal opportunity considerations. The people who reach out under the guise of a quick question with the intent to make a personal impression, are the same people who already bring a lot of privilege (identity, degrees from good schools, connections with the right people). So it’s more equitable to minimize contact until applications are reviewed.

      • OP

        That’s one of my unnamed reasons, too. I’m very sensitive to equal opportunity. I’m in an industry (niche of finance) that is all about who you know and we’re trying damn hard to change that. If you got as far as reaching out to me, someone pointed you my way within your inherent network. I think it puts others who don’t have the network at a big disadvantage. Thanks for reaffirming what I wasn’t quite sure how to express.

        • Anon

          I do not know your industry norms, so ignore this advice if it would not be appropriate: can the job posting specifically state to NOT contact hiring managers and/or contacts in the company? “In fairness to all applicants, the hiring manager and HR will not be speaking to any applicants outside of the formal interview process.”

          That should reduce the tsunami of outreach contacts and allows your team to provide a consistent response: “Per the job posting, our team does not engage in discussion outside of the formal interview process. If you are selected for an interview, you will have the opportunity to ask questions.”

          adjust wording as needed

      • Anonymous

        How do you know this? There is career advice everywhere, many places for free, about doing this type of research and reaching out. Assuming that it’s “privileged” people doing this says a lot about your biases.

        • Anon

          That you completely want to dismiss the idea that privilege plays a huge part in networking and hiring process says a huge amount about yours. Be better than this.

          • LA Law

            Privilege DOES play a huge part in networking – but I am failing to see how reaching out through publicly available channels constitutes privilege. It is advice often given to students by career services offices and does not require the sort of inherited privilege that people are usually talking about when they use that phrase. I would have thought it would actually be the reverse – it enables people who do not have an “in” to connect with people at a company.

            I used to receive these types of inquiries from law students at my public school all the time. People with privilege already had an in since they so often had lawyers parents (or parents’ friends). It was people who did not have those connections who needed to do this kind of networking.

        • anonshmanon

          I would be glad to be convinced otherwise. Here are recurring themes that I’ve observed again and again over the years: first generation students and graduates often are not familiar with the unwritten rules of networking.
          It’s true that nowadays, information is often provided through career centers etc., but it’s often vague, like ‘go to office hours’ or ‘reach out for informational interviews’ or ‘contact the hiring manager to ensure that your application gets attention’. I can tell you from personal experience and many conversations that if you already feel like you don’t belong in the space, you talk yourself out of these networking activities over and over again. You feel like you need a *good* reason to reach out, like a specific question on an assignment or a technical problem with the application website. ‘Just reaching out to introduce yourself’ would be perceived as wasting the other person’s time and so you don’t do it.
          I can also tell you that while our company purposely doesn’t list a hiring manager with job ads, and inquiries eventually do come our way. They are almost always from people we already know through our network. They are the ones whose application we would pay attention to anyway, because their background closely enough matches other successful hires.
          This is not blaming anyone, neither the people who do reach out, or the ones who don’t. It’s not about intent of any party, just about what process allows me to identify the best applicants.

    • MBAMags

      I’m one of those applicants. The advice we’re getting is that you have to make a connection to stand out from a sea of resumes, so you search LinkedIn and then google to try and find someone who might actually be reviewing your app. Everyone in your vertical is probably getting the same outreach.
      It’s frankly exhausting as a candidate to feel like (&/or be told) I have to have substantial conversations with 3+ people at every one of the 18+ firms I’ve applied to in hopes that I can “overcome” my non-traditional background, make a personal connection, and hopefully get an invite to the first round interview.

      I’ve seen this being handled two separate ways: 1) firms are incorporating “coffee chat” signups into their application process as an option for those may need or want to learn more than the formal information sessions. This is usually 1-2 weeks before the application closes. I would imagine the people who are interacting with applicants are more senior. (I have one of these today with a Partner.) 2) Your policy of non-contact once the application is live- but nice to have the opportunity before it goes up to ask questions beyond the formal recruiting spiel.

      • Anon

        I’ve been here also. We are told by well-meaning people we have to have actual contact and I believe we need it to break through. And yet, it is so hard, especially on the heels of COVID sending us all back to our original pod of people vs making new connections.

        • pugsnbourbon

          Eh – I see this advice from time to time, and not necessarily from boomers. There’s so much out there about networking and “hustle” and ways to get around ATS machinations. It’s cruddy to be a candidate and feel like your applications disappear into the ether.
          I like the “coffee chat” concept that MBAMags describes. It’d be fairly easy to set up a zoom and run it “office hours” style.

          • OP

            We do this but not during an active interview/open req process. We do on campus events, and other corporate marketed virtual stuff throughout the year. I don’t think you have hustle if you find me after you’ve applied and only at that point are asking to learn more.

    • Aunt Jamesina

      I have the same approach when candidates reach out to me. I tell them to reach out to our hiring team for any questions about the process and end it there. We also have very clear guidelines of how we conduct interviews and document interactions like screening calls and reference checks, so it would seem really unfair to have some sort of “off the record” interaction with a potential hire even if it’s not explicitly forbidden.

    • Tea

      If they make the effort to reach out in a way that any applicant has an opportunity to, then it isn’t unfair. Unfair would be a family friend trying to grease the wheels or if an applicant used an event at a members-only club to talk to you. There’s nothing wrong or unethical with being resourceful.

      • Anonymous

        That’s really naive. Any applicant could theoretically have the opportunity, but the reality is that those with connections will be far more aware and face way less friction. I’m currently up for a job where a former colleague recommended me to the CEO of the company and I’ve already talked with a couple of members of leadership, including the one over the division. The division leader then reached out on LI as soon as the job posted and asked me to apply. I’m glad the posting is open and will be for a bit, but it feels really unfair. I’d like to think that anyone applying has level ground and that wasn’t certainly the case. My connection has already given me a big upper hand and that’s what happens time and again. Resourceful—with a bit of privilege–is what is usually at play. It’s easier to get a home run when you started at third.

        • Anon

          Once you get over entry-level positions, that is just how hiring works. It is not “privileged” to have a former colleague recommend you. It means you were good at your job and they thought you would be a good fit.

          Some people are better employees than others. Depending on the role, I might (or might not) favor someone who shows an ability to hustle and network (sales for example). And this might be unpopular, but if someone has not overcome the fear of reaching out to people in positions of authority by the time they finish college, then I definitely have jobs for which they are not appropriate (and some for which they would be fine).

          • Anonymous

            Poster above here: No–this isn’t a factor of entry level or not. It’s a way that those who go to great schools and get great jobs continue to have a leg up on everyone else. Blinded hiring, where personal connection is taken out of the mix, is what is the most fair to those of all types of backgrounds. But friends of friends in positions of power helping one another is the reality. To pretend that this isn’t a privilege or that the playing ground is fair but simply “ingenuity” or lack of meekness make the difference only perpetuates this set of circumstances. It’s easy when you are a “have” to overlook what it takes for those who are a “have not.” My former colleague recommended me because of hard work and talent and leadership during our time together, but I’m not so blind as to know that the opportunity to become colleagues to begin with only came after a series of hard work–that was also tied to a lot of opportunity that others might not have had at different points to get that job. I’ve also been on the other end.I was recently interviewed for a non-consulting role at a big consulting firm and the backgrounds of those interviewing me (other than HR) were Harvard, Wharton, Cambridge, and Yale. I am waiting to hear back on that one–it took seven interviews and a take home test. And I’m fairly confident that my broke state school ass only made it that far because the take home was early in the interviewing process. (Thankfully there was a project-based component!) I haven’t officially been rejected yet, but as soon as small talk turned to traveling abroad with one of them in this last round, I could tell I wasn’t fitting in with them. Things like that are small, but they do make a difference.

          • Anon

            Everyone is making great points, but I live in the real world where blind hiring gets you someone who looks great on paper but is unreliable, impossible to work with, or was forced out of their old job due to incompetence or unreliability (or in one notable case a sexual harassment claim that was not filed until after we hired him).

            I have hired a lot of great people who did not go to great schools based on personal recommendations who we would not have looked at based purely on their CVs. And have hired some people who interviewed badly for tech positions (I honestly do not care if my analytics people can talk to other people) for the same reason. I understand all the reasons that “my friend’s kid”-type recommendations are a problem but recommendations from colleagues, college professors or others? Those are gold!

            What I do recommend if you are tying to widen your pool is creating a relationship with someone who can steer qualified people who might otherwise be overlooked for entry-level positions. We work with an organization that helps foster youth who have aged out of the system and they are a great resource.

  7. Hemelsblauw

    I am a very new manager of a department of around 50 staff. Several staff members have now come to me to say that they are uncomfortable with the behaviour of their team lead and the team lead deputy – basically they appear to be having an affair. This team has about 15 of my 50 staff members. The team lead has been with us for ages but is new as a team lead, deputy is a more recent hire (about two years) and was specifically recuited by team lead. It is a combination of things: they share an office and always have the door closed and sit extremely close to each other, they arrive and leave together (do not live near each other), one time they video conferenced in together from his place. Both these people are married with families. What is the way to handle this? I am in Europe and in government. We have no official policy against relationships in a direct reporting line, though one other couple has been told one of them has to join a different team. Also obviously have no proof of an actual relationship – I assume all I can do is have a conversation bringing up that their behaviour is making their team uncomfortable? I think they will both react very badly to this. How do I word this? Do I sit them down together or separately? Should anyone else be present? Thank you in advance for helping this newly minted manager out

    • Anon

      Talk to them separately and present it as the closeness of their relationship creating with an issue with team members who are uncomfortable with it. If they deny, present the specific examples and ask again. Also be aware that the deputy could say that they have been coerced and potentially raise a sexual harassment claim (in the US at least.)
      You may want to think more/ask those who have complained how the perceived relationship is affecting work – e.g., can people not speak freely or be critical of deputy in from of lead? Finally keep in mind for yourself that the problem being fixed is the perception of a personal relationship which is affecting the team dynamics. While the actual affair creates its own set of issues, it sounds like the issue before you is the perception of closeness

      • Aunt Jamesina

        I feel like confronting these two has the potential to blow up really, really badly for OP, particularly since she’s newer to the organization, it’s not against company rules, and she doesn’t have concrete evidence (even if it’s pretty darn clear something is going on). HR is the answer here.

        • Anon

          You don’t need “evidence” of anything going on between the two of them, they’re making the rest of the staff uncomfortable. That’s the problem, that’s what needs to be addressed.

          • Aunt Jamesina

            Yes, I completely agree that their interactions make things uncomfortable for everyone else. But that’s what HR is for. The real workplace problem is the fallout from their relationship that impacts the staff. The affair itself is their own hot mess to deal with. If OP tries to confront them, they’ll just deny it and it’ll turn into yet more drama.

          • Anon

            I am going to push back a bit on the idea that the mere fact that they are making people uncomfortable by itself is a problem. My response would be to go to HR and let them handle it. And if I was in HR I would tell people that there is no rule against relationships between co-workers and ask if there is anything other than the suspicion that they are involved that is creating an issue. If yes, then it should be addressed. If no, then their co-workers need to deal.

            Absent a policy violation, their personal lives are their business.

            But full disclosure: I am biased by the fact that some of my noisier co-workers once started a rumor that I was having an affair with a married co-worker (I wasn’t; I was actually long standing friends with his wife to the point that I had been the maid of honor at their wedding).

          • Anon

            I agree with Anon at 1:40. Appearing together on Zoom is kind of weird but that rest of it sounds like it could just be friendliness and people are being petty and gossipy. I was also the victim of rumors I was dating a male superior when I was single and he was getting divorced. Nothing happened – we were friendly co-workers and in no way would our relationship have been inappropriate even if we’d both been married. I think it’s also important to be sensitive to the sexist undertones of rumors like this – it is almost always the woman who is punished more severely.

        • Anon

          You’re right about involving HR! I’m in HR/compliance so skipped over that step, but stand by the advice once leadership and HR are appropriately looped in, with the questions being asked by the right person.

    • Monday

      I’ve only ever worked in the US, but if I were in your position I would definitely consult a trusted manager above me, and possibly even involve that person in handling it. This could blow up in a big way if you think the employees will “react very badly” to being spoken to about their relationship. And even in asking what’s going on, or appearing to do so, could give rise to complaints against you if they’re really hostile. Proceed with a lot of caution and expert assistance.

    • No Face

      I am not in Europe, but please talk to your equivalent of Human Resources and/or the company’s employment lawyers before you do anything at all.

    • Anon

      If several people have said something, you need to deal with it ASAP. Put them on different teams. It doesn’t matter if they protest. You need to do something for the rest of the staff even if it’s uncomfortable for you.

    • Anon

      Step 1: Consult HR
      Step 2: Do what HR says, and only what HR says.
      Step 2B: When approached by other direct reports that have an issue with this duo, send them to HR or respond in the HR-prescribed way.

      If HR is for nothing else, this is legitimately what HR is for. Protect the company, and in turn protect you as an unwitting employee of said company. We had a somewhat similar situation until Person A apparently decided the relationship was over and went and dumped all the texts and other evidences in the hands of HR, claimed Person B was harassing and stalking them and alleged office leadership knew and did nothing. It was U G L Y.

    • Anonforthis

      You should send this question to:
      ask a manager . org
      (remove spaces)

  8. Anon

    I bought a pair of straight leg jeans and they do not look flattering on me at ALL. I’m going to try to size up and see if that helps but I think it may be the cut that highlights my belly.

    I’m 5’5, small frame, size 6-8, carry weight in my midsection/thick waist + have a short torso, long legs (I joke that I’m basically a soccer ball with legs sometimes). Currently around ~140lbs. Style is edgy/bold + feminine.

    Any advice on non-skinny jean cuts and washes that could be flattering? I’d like something with a little stretch. I wore wide legs a lot as a 90s kid (think JNCOs and GXes) and I don’t know if I’m interested in re-visiting that trend, especially bc I don’t want to worry about hemming, but I can be convinced.

    • No Face

      You and I are the same height, carry weight in the same place, and have the same short torso + long leg combo. Nice to meet you twin! I am 20 pounds heavier though. I am wearing Levi’s 724 high rise straight jeans in different colors. They have worked with all my shoes regardless of height.

    • ALT

      I’m built similarly and the Marine Straight jeans from Zara are so flattering! It’s a wide straight leg with a high rise. They run a size small (I usually wear a 10 in pants and sized up to a 12) but maybe check them out!

    • Anon

      I carry my weight in my belly and I think part of the key is I need mid rise, not high rise for the straight leg jeans. (No more than 10 inch rises, especially if you have a short torso – some of the jeans I’ve tried on are almost 12 and look ridiculous on me.) I own some of the J Crew 9 inch mid rise slim-straight jeans, which might be a good transitional look for you – straight enough to not be hopelessly outdated but still flattering on me.

      • Anonymous

        Yeah, it’s probably the rise. I have a long torso and a flat stomach and high-rise jeans still make me look like I have a pooch. Mid-rise is more flattering.

    • pugsnbourbon

      Do like jeans with a slight taper? I’m rectangle-shaped (#fridgegang) and I like how looser hips/tapered leg looks.

      • OP

        Ok thank you for posting this – I always wondered what “shape” I am – and yes! I do like a taper and/or a crop. I live in a warmer climate (think NOLA but not NOLA) so I can wear it year-round for the most part.

        • pugsnbourbon

          I sound like an Old Navy shill but they’ve got some tapered pants/jeans that I like. They run a bit large.

    • Cat

      I would look at denim brands that Meghan Markle wore – she has a similar build, slim but square of torso and all legs.

      • Anon

        Meghan Markle is not “a soccer ball with legs” ???? Nor does she seem to wear a lot of denim.

        • Cat

          ???? Her skinny legs are most of her height and she doesn’t have a well-defined waist. Classic apple shape with a short torso. Doesn’t mean she has a bad figure, just similar to the OP’s…

          • No Face

            Yes, this is how some of us are shaped. I looked like an egg on toothpicks at the height of my pandemic weight gain. Now I am a muscular version of MM’s figure.

          • Cat

            ok the OP was clearly using that in jest to describe her body type. Not sure why you’d react so strongly to identifying MM’s body type as an apple shape.

        • OP

          I follow the royals, especially the Sussexes, quite closely for fun. If you go back to her pics pre-marriage when she was dating Harry and was papped..tons of jeans. Also when she’s done more “casual” looks – almost always denim/jeans.

    • Anonymous

      I’m not build exactly like this but I’m 5’6″, have a short torso and somewhat rectangular build, and I like the Gap mid-rise girlfriend jeans. For me, 9.5 in rise goes all the way to my belly button, so I just can’t wear most high rise styles. Note that they fit differently depending on the wash and are a little cropped – you may prefer the Tall sizes.

  9. LaurenB

    This may or may not be relevant, but I had a friend in a shoulder / arm cast after a significant injury, and she lived in ponchos, which kept her warm and cozy and were cute. She ordered a bunch off Amazon so I’m sure they are at all price points.

  10. Reposting because I posted late yesterday

    I started at my company about a year ago, and am coming up on my annual review. The boss who hired me left about 6 months through, and I’m concerned that my new boss doesn’t fully know everything I’ve done in my time here. Our review prrocess is that your manager sends our 360 reviews, and then has a meeting with you where you get your review/raise etc.

    Is there a way of bringing up “here are all the things I’ve done that you dont know about”? I do have a regular meeting, should I just do this in my next one? Share the doc? She knows generally what I’ve done but not the specifics.

    Update – I’m the one who basically sets the agendas for our check ins, so leaning towards emailing her this before our next one and asking to review it together. I’m not sure if we do self reviews. Tbh I hate doing those but I can see how it would be helpful.

    • Z

      Yes, it happens a lot. A few years ago, I moved to a new team in September and the annual review was in December. I wrote down all the things I had done on my previous team for my new supervisor to read. Its fine to bring that up at one of your check ins – “I know annual reviews are coming up, I wanted you to be aware of some of my accomplishments under my prior supervisor.”

    • No Face

      At the regular meeting, I would say something like “Here’s just a quick background on what I’ve worked on in the past year so you can keep me in mind for future projects/cases/tasks/whatever.” Then give the highlights. I wouldn’t necessarily give her the document.

    • Anon

      Oh I think that would be well received by most bosses. I’d say something like I know preparing reviews and trying to remember everything that happened in the last year can be a ton of work, so I put together this summary of my main projects and accomplishments in case it’s helpful. Happy to discuss if you have any questions.

      You don’t need to explicitly make it about the switch in managers because even someone that supervised you all year would probably appreciate you doing this legwork.

    • Anonymous

      Yes, totally do this. Do this with all your managers, new or not. They are keeping track of lots of people, and can forget what you did at the start of the year even if they were your manager the full year. Be your own champion!

    • Anon

      I’ve always asked my reports to send me a list of what they accomplished over the last year, and even if you don’t get such a request, I still would do it. It’s helpful whether you have formal reviews or not for determining compensation.

      • Anon

        PS – my preferred format is an email, I’m not going to remember what you verbally said in a 1:1 when I’m sitting down to sort out year end items. Make it easy for your boss.

    • Anon.

      This happened to me last year, had a leadership vacuum from June – Sept and new manager joined in October. Review due in November. I maintain a list of projects, completed tasks and achievements in Excel, which I shared with new manager, highlighting the top 3-5, depending on relative workload and impact. I added a message that I would like to discuss this in my annual review, and could give more insights into specificprojects as needed.

      In my case, I also included in the verbal conversation information about an internal job offer I had received but decided against, and some intel about my below-par compensation that parting manager had shared. Followed up with an email summarizing these points and a concrete ask for more money, and a few weeks later received a 25% raise, increased bonus/stock benefits etc. I’m still proud of that a year later…

      So I’d encourage you to consider whether there are other factors besides your review topics that you may want to raise with new manager.

    • Anon8

      My husband is a frozen pizza connoisseur– Wild Mike’s Pizza is the best according to him.

      • Anon

        +1 Newman’s Own spinach is soooo good! And my veggie-hating kid will eat it. Win win.

    • AIMS

      Easiest to find – Amy’s Margarita.

      Harder to find but actually doesn’t taste like frozen: Roberta’s.

    • Gail the Goldfish

      California Pizza Kitchen BBQ Chicken and Trader Joe’s brie and tomato tart (it’s a pizza, I don’t care what they call it)

    • Cat

      what type of crust do you like? I’m partial to DiGiornio’s Pizzeria Thins bc of the crust to toppings ratio.

    • Anon

      Wegmans Mushroom and Truffle Pizza

      California Pizza Kitchen’s Roasted Garlic Chicken Pizza

    • Anon

      We love California Pizza Kitchen cauliflower crust pizza with sausage and mushrooms. I normally hate cauliflower crust pizza but this one is SO good and has the perfect chewy texture. And it makes me feel “healthy” even though I’m sure it’s not.

    • Anon

      I no longer live near a TJ’s but when I did I loved their mushroom and black truffle flatbread.

  13. Nina

    I just got a direct report who I don’t think was well managed in the past. He’s been told that he has issues with “deadlines” that are preventing him from being promoted, but from what I see its really issues with executing things to the final step.

    For example, if he is told to update part C of the process, he does that, but doesn’t test it out, re run the whole process, update the documentation, etc etc. Tbh it reminds me of the Fair Play or emotional work conversations we have here – he needs to take complete ownership of the task and make sure it gets done in a timely manner.

    I have told him this, but its definitely an amorphous concepts for him. I feel like saying “before process X is updated, you have to have completed steps A,B,C” is counterproductive, because for this role he really has to realize that he needs to do A,B, and C himself!

    Just as I was typing this, he told me he had finished a specific task but didn’t really take it to completion.

    • Anon

      Why do you assume this is because he wasn’t managed well? Sounds like he’s just lazy.

      • Nina

        I separately know that he was not managed well, and that one of his past managers avoided giving him proper feedback just because that manager didn’t want to have an awkward conversation. So I’m not willing to just call him lazy yet. I also think there’s some merit to him being a little scarred.

    • Cat

      is he scarred from stepping out of his lane previously?

      I think the conversation is “as part of things you’re assigned, you need to think about how they fit in the big picture and cross-check for any unintended ripple effects. If you need help figuring out who to ask in other areas, I can help with id’ing the right contacts for you.”

        • anonshmanon

          +2 I see folks all the time who seem to have zero initiative, when they merely need to be empowered to not only see the bigger picture but to act on it. Somehow it needs to be spelled out to them, to take ownership. But after that’s done, they surprise me.

        • Anon

          I agree. If you know you know. I was in an organization that slapped people’s hands, hard, for taking initiative – even when it was warranted, saved time/effort, created good outcomes, etc. I didn’t even have to get my own hand slapped – seeing it happen to other people was enough to make me create habits so that I didn’t end up on the wrong side of things. After I came out of that environment, it took some time to get over it and re-learn to work normally/take initiative again.

    • pugsnbourbon

      I think you need to be really explicit – even though it feels counterintuitive, say what you wrote in your third paragraph. He needs to know that “finished” means tested, updated, documented, etc. and that he is responsible for each of these steps. You could add “in the future, I want you to be able to complete these tasks with less guidance from me.”

    • Anon

      I think you need to have a conversation about what finished means to you and use this as an example to explain and teach all the steps and point out what can go wrong if they aren’t done. And then next time you give him an assignment, ask him to send you an email about the process he’s going to go through so you can see if he gets it. If he means well and is smart he’ll learn over time; if he isn’t trying or is struggling, that will also reveal itself.
      In general managers don’t focus on process enough but it’s the most important part!

    • Anon

      I would have a conversation and ask him about how this worked in his prior company. He’s asked to update part C – what was he responsible for? who was responsible for updating the documentation? would he have been out of his lane if he tested an re-ran the process? Discuss the larger picture of how this all needs to work and how, in your company, these different pieces are assigned.

      • Nina

        Oh I like this. He was at the same company, I just changed teams. Maybe someone else did the documentation/testing or he thought it was someone elses job to do it.

        I think he’s very used to what someone at a lower level may do, where you just write the memo you were assigned or whatever it was and hand it in and that’s that.

        • Anon

          Thank you!

          I have had a few extremely bad managers, and they are far worse than absent managers. For reference, I’m an early 40s in-house attorney, so this isn’t said lightly: one hallmark of a bad manager of professionals is getting mad at them for doing more, thinking outside the box, or even raising the proverbial flag.

          It deliberately creates passivity, which is the point – these people aren’t great at their jobs and assume everyone underneath them must be even more incompetent. Therefore, they think they need to dole out things piecemeal, squelch ideas, and train people to work in ways that aren’t scary or threatening to someone who isn’t very competent.

          • Annony

            Oh my god. YES! You just described my previous manager to a T. I’ve mostly recovered, but whenever my grand boss tells me I need to be “more courageous about raising my hand when you see something that can be done better” I’m like, “B@$, you sow what you reap.”

    • anon

      I’m not sure if this is helpful but on my old team, we used to sometimes say “you brought me groceries but I wanted you to make me dinner.” For some people that helped it click:)

  14. LaurenB

    Travel advice welcome. Have an opportunity to go to Morocco Feb/Mar of 2023 (will avoid Ramadan). Looks to be about 10 days. What cities are worth seeing and which ones aren’t? And is there a tour guide someone could recommend? We are mid-fifties, fit / active, interested in historical sites, not interested in sitting in a tour bus with others and desire a private guide, either for the whole journey or maybe different ones in different cities. Thanks1

    • Cat

      1000% recommend Essouira (sp?) – it’s on the Atlantic coast, an easy bus ride from Marrakesh (Supra Tours ran it when we went) if you want to city-hop on your own. Amazing food and a much more local shopping vibe in the souks.

      • Cat

        oh and in Marrakesh, our two fav things were going to the Majorelle gardens and indulging in a couples’ hammam treatment.

    • NYCer

      I would prioritize Marrakech and Fez – when we went, we flew into Fez and out of Marrakech and had a driver during the rest of the trip. I also recommend a night in a (luxury) tent in the desert, and as another poster mentioned Essaouira is a nice addition as well. We had a private guide through Wilderness Travels (same guide and driver the entire trip), and it was great.

    • Girlonawireless

      Following. If anybody has been to Agadir or Taroudant, I would love to hear your impressions and recommendations.

    • Anon

      This reminds me of a poster from a while back –Houda? She lived in Morocco. I hope she’s doing well.

  15. Anon

    I’m hoping you all can help me with a tax question. I live in Northern Virginia and recently got a new job in DC. I was under the impression that there was tax reciprocity and that I would only be taxed in one or the other. But my paycheck is taxed by both Virginia and DC. It’s making my take home pay a lot lower than I anticipated. What gives here? Did I just misunderstand the tax reciprocity concept?

  16. anon

    I have a very stressful demanding job and need more tools to deal with chronic stress. I’m in therapy already. What sort of things do you all do to manage stress? I have a generally healthy diet, work out regularly, and am really pushing to get more sleep. I also decided to try acupuncture. What else?

    • Anonymous

      meditation? scheduling daily activities that are relaxing/soothing for you (e.g. 30 min of low impact yoga or stretching and focusing on calming down). vagus nerve reset exercises. definitely +1 acupuncture.

    • Anon

      On bad weeks, I really enjoy a 5 pm Friday massage. It’s a great way to let go of the week.

      • Anonymous Grouch

        And if a Friday PM massage is out of budget, try a yin yoga session on You Tube in a dimly lit and nicely fragranced room. Sara Beth “Yin Yoga to Relax and Unwind” is my favorite. I pair it with a lavender diffuser and just a small nightlight for light, and I always feel so relaxed afterwards.

    • theguvnah

      meditation, reiki, depending on your existing workouts maybe swap one for yoga instead?

    • No Face

      Back when I was very busy, I designated Friday evenings as non-work time. No work from 7pm Friday to 7am Saturday.

    • Anonymous

      I hope you like acupuncture. I find it really relaxing. Something that helps me during crazy busy times is doing something to break the stress cycle after every single meeting so the stress doesn’t just build and build the entire day. So after each meeting or task, I will do something to break the cycle like 60 seconds of jumping jacks or a quick child’s pose with 5 deep breaths before the next call.

  17. Anon

    Has anyone purchased from Ann Taylor lately? What’s the quality comparable to? How about the fit/vanity sizing? They have a quite a few cute things on their website that are website-only, and I’m trying to decide about purchasing.

    • Anonymous

      I bought the teal suit that was featured here about a month or so ago. The color was gorgeous but the fabric was extremely wrinkly so it ended up going back. I’m a size 10 on top, 12-14 on bottom. The pants in a size 12 fit me and I took the jacket in a size 10, if that helps. I have a hard time with their tops … I don’t want to pay that much for 100% poly.

    • Anonymous

      Vanity sizing – yes.
      Fit and quality – varies. I like their suits, their jeans only last me a few months before there are holes or rips or tears – BUT I have an animal with claws and I machine wash and dry. None of my other brands of jeans do this, so I do think it’s an AT issue, but I love the fit so I’ve resigned myself to a new pair of jeans in my preferred style 3x/year.
      Quality – I’d typically say one step down from Banana Republic but a step up from BR Factory. Little better than Loft but I do wear AT more for work and loft for real life. YMMV

    • DeepSouth

      I bought some things recently after avoiding them for years. I was super disappointed. Everything was very frumpy in person and too long for me — not like just hem the pants, but the stride was too long, the arms were too long, the button was too low for my waist in the suit jacket. ( I am 5’5″ and an 8/10 for reference).

      They have better photography for their website, but not better clothing.

      Don’t waste your effort, IMHO.

  18. Liza

    WWYD: You’re on a plane in the aisle seat of a 2-seat grouping. The person in the window seat next to you is using their laptop, in their lap, as the plane is pulling into the runway to takeoff. You’ve already been told by the flight attendant to put away your own laptop, but she’s seated and can’t see your seatmate is on his laptop.

    • Vicky Austin

      I don’t know. But you’ve reminded me that as a teenager flying alone I was once seated next to a man who turned his phone on right before we began our descent and then seemed to be baffled that his reception was not working.

    • Anon

      It’s not your job to monitor the laptop usage of other passengers, so I’d let it go.

    • Anon

      I would do nothing, probably, and just be silently annoyed. I’m not sure that’s the correct answer, but it’s what I would do.

    • Anon

      Ignore it. It’s not your job to police the behavior of other passengers unless it’s affecting you.

    • A Knitter

      I would mind my own business. The rule breaker is not endangering you in any way.

    • Anon

      Pulling out to taxi or actually at the head of the runway to start takeoff?

      I wouldn’t say anything because it legitimately doesn’t affect plane electronics in any way (and goodness knows there are so many crazy people on planes these days), but I myself am guilty of keeping electronics on for the first few minutes of taxiing, though I always turn them off before actual takeoff.

      • Ribena

        I always thought the laptops during takeoff thing was more about the risk of them becoming projectiles if something goes wrong?

        • Anon

          Yeah this. I heard from a flight attendant that danger of lots of hard, loose objects flying around the cabin is the real risk, and if mobile phones/laptops, etc. really interfered with flight electronics, they wouldn’t let people self-police turning them on/off, which honestly makes a lot of sense. She also said that they also ask people to turn them off so that people will actually pay attention to the flight attendants, especially in case of an emergency.

        • pugsnbourbon

          That’s what I thought, too. I’d be annoyed but ultimately do nothing.

        • Anonymous

          Yes, that’s the reason why. It’s the same reason why bulkhead seat passengers have to stow everything. Takeoff, landing and turbulence are times during flight where objects suddenly becoming projectiles can be very dangerous. For a laptop, I’d guess that the size also would seriously hinder the passenger in taking an emergency brace position.

          I would have said something in some cases, maybe not others. Where I live, the two-person seat arrangement comes in small airplanes more likely to be used in windy outposts where sudden turbulence during take-off is a real danger.

    • Anon

      “Do you mind waiting just a few minutes until we are in the air? If something goes wrong during takeoff, your laptop is going to be a projectile.”

    • Anonymous

      The issue isn’t electronics, it is that laptops and other large devices can injure fellow passengers if the device goes flying due to a bump or turbulence. Also, holding the device could impede evacuation. I think putting it away is a federal regulation.

      There’s not much you can do in the moment, but later in the flight I’d tell an attendant who can keep an eye out before landing.

      • Liza

        Thank you. The reasoning in your first paragraph is exactly why I was concerned. I don’t want to risk getting injured by the flying laptop of someone who thinks they’re above the rules, no matter how remote the likelihood.

      • Anon

        Omg this is so weird. Just mind your own business (and no I don’t use my laptop during takeoff and landing).

      • Anon

        This reasoning doesn’t make much sense because you’re allowed to have tablets out. You’re also allowed to have very heavy non-electronic items, like a 600 page book, in your lap. Is a tablet or giant book really less likely to injure someone than a laptop? I’m not sure I believe that.

        • Anon

          No you’re not. They tell you to stow all items during takeoff and landing.

          • Anon

            I fly all the time and I flew yesterday on a CRJ200 (which has a 2-2 seat configuration). They made an announcement that laptops needed to be stowed for takeoff, but expressly said that people could continue to use “cell phones, tablets and other portable electronic devices” if they were put into airplane mode. This is a totally standard announcement that I have heard on planes dozens of times in the last couple of years. My 4 year old was using her large tablet right in front of the flight attendant (who was reminding other passengers to put away laptops and obviously would have said something to us if it wasn’t allowed). I had a book on my lap (though not a 600 page one) and again, the flight attendant didn’t say anything because it’s not against the rules. Most of the other passengers also had books and tablets out. You don’t know what you’re talking about.

          • Cat

            No they don’t. They expressly say that you can use handheld items like phones and tablets.

            OP, I wouldn’t start arguing with my seatmate over this, but I would be quietly annoyed.

    • Anon

      Very frequent flyer here and it would never occur to me to say anything to a passenger about airplane rules unless it was impacting me. So like if someone won’t stop encroaching on my space or drunk and spilling drinks on me I would say something. But I don’t care if someone is breaking the rules about electronics.

    • Anonymous

      Wow, the majority of responses are so selfish. Its not an insurmountable burden to be without tech for the safety of fellow passengers.

      • Anon

        How are we selfish? No one here is saying they use a laptop when it’s not allowed. We’re just saying we mind our own business and don’t tattle on other passengers who are breaking the rules.

      • Anonymous

        Huh? Literally no one has said they work with a laptop out on takeoff. Just that they don’t care to play plane cop.

    • Girlonawireless

      Yank it out of his hands and slide it down the aisle.

      I’m on the do not fly list, but that’s the price I pay for being a lioness and not a sheep.

      • Anonymous Grouch

        Sorry to say I love this solution – made me laugh out loud on a dreary Friday. The image of it shooting back into the galley is priceless!

  20. Anonymous

    Maybe fun travel hunt? I’m looking for vacation clothes that say “I’m a young lady hopping off a steamer ship from London looking for adventure” that convey a 1930s vibe. But I also want comfy and cotton and breathable. Ideally I want this, but a dress.

    https://tempaper.com/products/garden-metallic-ice-blue-chinoiserie-custom-removable-wall-mural?variant=40656398221494&currency=USD&utm_medium=product_sync&utm_source=google&utm_content=sag_organic&utm_campaign=sag_organic&gclid=CjwKCAjwp9qZBhBkEiwAsYFsb9eq_sAm-HA-TSjXh_yloaB7KytGk3pg5kj_Kg_Csh4U5q2bb-HaJRoCpOsQAvD_BwE

    No Hill House Home I love them but nothing currently available is working for me.

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