Holiday Weekend Open Thread
Something on your mind? Chat about it here!
We'll be taking Monday off for the MLK holiday — we hope everyone else enjoys a three-day weekend as well!
The Saks “Consolidation Sale” is on, with tons of great pieces at great prices — in lots of lucky sizes. Take this blouse — we'd wear it with jeans on the weekend, but it could also be great on a more casual workday as well. Was $225, now $63 — lovely! Tory Burch Ruffled Plaid Blouse
yayyy Weekend is here!
Anyone here doing crossfit? Did you like it? Good/Bad?
I’ve found it to be a bit cultish, personally. I think it also greatly depends on what your fitness goals are. Do you want to get buff? It’s probably excellent for that. I’m less sure it’s helpful for working towards a specific aerobic goal (triathlon, weight loss, etc.). I found that, in order to finish the workouts, my HR was always going above threshold into a can’t-breathe-want-to-throw-up mode, which is really not what you want. Sometimes, it seemed like just a lot of workout moves thrown together haphazardly without a specific goal in mind. Which, again, if you’re more interested in just getting your butt kicked, is probably a great workout, but maybe less so if you have specific goals in mind.
Did it on and off for two years. It. Is. Rough. And, I second Res Ipsa’s observation that it is cult-ish. I cried at least twice after a workout, and often had to sit in my car and regain my composure because my quads were shaking so violently. My favorite, and only favorite, part of the workouts was jumping rope. I also disliked that the workouts involved a lot of moves I am simply not strong enough to do – pull-ups, for instance. So all the guys in the class (and it was almost entirely guys, so that might be a plus…) would be busting out pull-ups and I would be using a step-up box to do mine. Not fun. I did like that the workouts were short, though.
And, I also might mention that I did gain quite a bit of muscle tone, but it wasn’t all good – my thighs both grew almost an inch in circumference and made my pants fit not-so-great. I refused to do any of the lunging exercises during the workout for awhile, which didn’t go over well with my trainer, but he understood that it was not my desire to “bulk up.” Which is mainly why I quit going.
Eeks. The last thing I want is for my thighs to get any bigger. And I also hate that look of excessively worked thighs.
I agree that it is a bit cultish, though the intensity varies a bit from gym to gym. However, I had great results in terms of overall fitness, strength, weight loss, and improved physique, in a relatively short period of time. In conjunction with a job change, I quit about a year ago, but I know that I am still benefiting from the six months I did it. I don’t know that I am a total convert to Crossfit as the only way to get fit, but I do believe, after doing Crossfit, that interval training and mixing up the stresses you put on your body, is the way to real fitness.
It probably is not the fastest way to go from zero to performance in terms of pure aerobic fitness or triathlon training. But if you are already doing triathlons and want to step up your performance, this is going to add an element to your fitness you can’t get doing just the three sports. One of my trainers was a long-time marathoner who wanted to break 4:00. She finally did it (by several minutes) after years of failure, with Crossfit’s special endurance program. That program involves A LOT less distance running than traditional training and A LOT more strength training. It also stands traditional endurance running nutrition principles on their head by nearly eliminating carbs. Her success fascinated me.
Anonymous’ comment raised another point, which is that the CrossFit community are big believers in the “paleo” theory of diet–you can read about it more, but it’s definitely not a diet for everyone, and I (personally) am not a big fan of the science, though I agree that eating more whole foods is a positive thing.
Thanks all. Looks like Crossfit is not for me! Atleast right now when I am looking to loose a lot of weight.
I looked at some videos online for their WODs and they do look very very intense. My fitness is not upto that level yet.
I am looking to get into weight training to combat PCOS weight gain that benefits a lot from it. I hadalso heard how x-fit remodulates our hormones improving overall hormonal profile.
I guess I just will have to do it the old fashioned way and x-fit will have to wait.
If you’re looking for doing some weight training, can I recommend BodyPump if you have that at your gym? It’s fun, it’s weight training, choreographed to good music, and there’s an aerobic element to it. Plus, you can ease your way into it, starting with light weights/no weights, etc. might be something to look into it.
Thanks for reminding me about that class. I have been making donations to Bally’s every month. They have that class. I will check it out. I wish that Bally’s was closer to my home than 15 miles away.
I do body pump once per week. It is not too intimidating and I gained some muscle definition after 5 weeks.
My Gold’s Gym has Body Pump, and I’ve done it elsewhere. I LOVE that class – and it’s great because it is a really good workout, regardless of your level of fitness.
Try P90x? You can do it at home and improve at your own pace.
Ack! My husband tried P90X and we literally spent hours planning meals, grocery shopping and preparing food. The workouts are great, but the diet was a nightmare. Also, I think there is a version geared toward women that doesn’t build up so much bulky muscle. I don’t remember the name of it.
I think you’re referring to P90X Lean. You do it with the regular program materials, but you follow a different schedule (the diet could also be different–I didn’t follow their diet so I wouldn’t know).
Personally, I found P90X boring and time-consuming (even without the nutritional component). The “host” makes a lot of annoying jokes that you have to listen to every week, and they add up to quite a bit of wasted time. I’m a runner/cyclist, so I also didn’t like that the workouts were so long that they left me little time for runs and bike rides. I did pick up a few new upper body exercises that I liked, but prefer doing them without the DVD and catching up on my DVR in the background instead.
Yay weekend thread! I have a hair problem.
About six months ago I realised that my lovely red curls were getting saggier and saggier. They’re now practically approaching ‘wavy’. I cut six inches off it as soon as I realised, but reducing the weight hasn’t helped.
I’ve always used ‘for dry and damaged’ shampoo to make my hair soft. Maybe switch to ‘voluminous’ or something of the sort? The only get-curl-quick solution I can think of is to move to a humid climate. I was in Lagos a couple of weeks ago and my hair looked GREAT.
I’m 26 if that’s relevant.
Have you tried ouidad products (ouidad dot com)? They’re available at Sephora I think. They’re made especially to bring out curls.
Oh dear. I expected to pay a certain price for shipping things from the US, but $72.99 is quite the sum! Worst I’d ever seen before was $40. No ouidad for me it seems. Shame.
I liked the look of the Ouidad cut/products, but did not like the “crunchy” curls – they look great but don’t feel great to touch. The curls really did look great though, but the crunchy was too much for me in the end.
You can also look into getting it cut by someone who is trained in the ouidad technique.
I use a sulfate-free shampoo and that helps greatly with keeping my hair moisturized. Mine is the Nourish Spa one from Trader Joe’s. It costs $3 and I like it. I also love the Bumble and Bumble curl conscious line, especially the styling cream.
I recommend DevaCurl shampoo (No Poo or Low Poo). I’ve been using No Poo with an occasional (once a month or so) dose of Low Poo for about six years and my curly hair looks good (better in the summer in humid weather, but still decent in the cold, dry winter). It took my hair a few months to get used to the No Poo — it’s like a creamy lotion that doesn’t suds up at all, so very unlike a conventional shampoo and your hair will feel greasy and nasty and flat for a while because your scalp will still be overproducing oil without it being stripped out by the harsh traditional shampoos. But if you can stand that gross ramp-up period you will be rewarded. I exclusively use DevaCurl products but I think their shampoo is the only thing that can’t be substituted with anything else on the market. The rest — conditioner, gel, etc. — is not that different from other brands.
Ooh, DevaCurl gel was a complete disaster on my loose, somewhat coarse, thick curls. It made them look greasy and deflated.
Second Anonymous, I’m a little concerned because my hair sounds very similar to yours.
But First Anonymous, I’ll try the shampoo anyway! Worries about visitors who might think it’s an anti-diarrhoea preparation notwithstanding.
Someone posted on here a few days ago that shampoos for curly hair have more moisturizers than others. That might help the “for dry or damaged” symptoms you’re experiencing, too.
bumble and bumble curl conscious line- love it!!
E, don’t hate me for this:
If none of the above methods work… your hair’s texture might just be changing. I have a sister who is a fabulous hair dresser (“stylist”), and she’s mentioned to me more than once that our hair, like our skin and our figures, changes every so often — namely every 7 years we can expect some kind of change — sometimes slight, sometimes not :/. Particularly because it sounds like you have absolutely gorgeous hair, I hope this is not the case for you! But, if your former ringlets don’t spring back, simply changing textures and good ol’ hormones may be what’s flattening them out.
Hope this helps, but sincerely hope the other comments help more!
I won’t hate you. I do suspect however that Kat may have been stealing my curls. :) She mentions having the opposite phenomenon.
This happened to me. My hair went from curly (requiring (or “requiring”) special haircuts, products, etc.) in mid-college to decidedly only-wavy by the end of law school (it’s kind of beachy-looking now, naturally), after initially turning from wispy/wavy to coarse/curly at puberty. I cut my hair when I noticed, too, thinking it was the weight, but it stayed wavy. My hair still holds a curl but its natural state is much more bed-head-y and relaxed than it was. I don’t mind wavy hair so I’m fine with it, but this may be more than a weather issue.
JessiCurl!
How early is too early to start decorating your office?
I am still a law student, but I have accepted a permanent job offer. The firm is letting me work there during the school year, also (about 25 hours per week), and they’ve put me in what I believe will be my “real” office. The walls are completely bare, and it’s kind of bumming me out. Obviously I’m not going to be putting my undergrad diploma up on the wall or anything, but is it too soon for me to maybe bring in a plant and/or a couple of picture frames for my desk? Would something for the walls be completely weird at this point? I am the only student working in the firm right now if that makes a difference.
I wouldn’t hang anything on the walls until you get confirmation that this is going to be your permanent office, but bringing in “moveables” like plants and picture frames is fine even if it’s temporary. [As we’ve discussed here previously, just keep in mind what your photos reveal about you to your visitors.] Do you have a permanent name plate outside your office door? If so, I think that is your go-ahead to hang on the walls. Keep in mind that many offices don’t let you hang things yourself, so find out who would handle that –maybe that could segue into a polite way to inquire about your permanent location.
I would refrain from decorating. I don’t think it would be inappropriate, however, to put up a calendar to brighten your spirits.
Plant and picture frames are definitely OK. I wouldn’t bring in framed art at this point, but the calendar AIMS suggested or something similarly small shouldn’t be a problem.
I always like when our summer interns bring in plants/appropriate pictures in frames etc. It seems way nicer than leaving the office totally bare.
You have the formal offer and have accepted? I think it’s fine to ask if you can decorate the office walls. I wouldn’t do so without asking, just in case they’re planning to move you once you pass the bar, but 25 hours/week is enough that you seem more like a real staff member than an intern. I also think it’s totally fine to bring in movable decorations like a plant or framed photo, if you’re not comfortable asking if you can decorate the walls.
Yes, I accepted a formal offer after my time as a summer associate last summer.
I think I’ll just bring in a couple of photos and a plant next week. I suppose I’ll leave the framed, matted, and signed Justin Bieber poster at home for now.
Haha! :)
Isn’t 25 hours a week more than the ABA allows? I may be mistaken, but I believe law students can only work 20 hours or less during law school under ABA rules.
Assuming you are taking 12 credit hours or more.
This is right. I’m only in 9 hours for my final semester, so I’m pulling 30 hour work weeks as often as I can.
You’re correct. I am only taking 8 hours in my last semester, so I can get in more work if I want (I’m the original Anon).
To kellyn — At my school first years can’t work at all (I think that’s an ABA rule, but it could just have been my school), but you can work up to 20 hours per week after that if you’re enrolled in 12 or more hours. If you’re taking less than that, you can work as much as you want.
It’s also not that well enforced, in my experience. I thought, too, it was only for first year students? Am I remembering this wrong?
I definitely worked 30 hours/wk during my 3L year, but then again, I was taking very few classes (mostly credit externships, law review stuff).
Thank you for asking this question! I’m in exactly the same boat. In addition to wondering about when it’s alright to add a little personality to my office, I’m wondering when it’s OK to ask for a couple of office equipment accommodations. Specifically: I’m stuck with an older ergonomic keyboard that was purchased for a legal assistant who was fired several months ago, and I’m using a chair that no one wants – it’s quite uncomfortable. Also as the last vacant office in our suite, my space was used for storage for several months. When is it OK to ask that the storage cease (I seem to arrive on my working days to files that someone needs to strip or an old banker box that someone needs to break down). It drives me nuts as I’m a tidy office person. Help! (I do have a door sign with my name outside my office).
I’m a 1st year now, but was a working 3L last year and in my permanent office. I decorated w/ plants and pictures. Waited until passing the bar to hang the diplomas and licenses, books, etc. No one had any problems w/ that–in fact, before I got the plants and pictures, people were asking me when I was going to “move in” b/c the office looked so barren.
I ‘ve been in my office for a few months and still haven’t decorated and I don’t know if I will. I think it’s because I mentally have one foot out the door… both because I don’t particularly like my job, and I feel as though I might be fired at any moment. I like the fact that it would take me all of two minutes to pack my things and leave. :/
Hey Anonymous — I’ve been there too…hang in there. At the Job From Hell, I started using a large totebag — every day, I’d fill it up with my files, desk stuff, and bring it home. It made the eventual leaving so much easier…. good luck!
Our baby-planning discussion and the link to the Future Fertility article make me have to ask the question that’s been on my mind since recently turning 31: I want kids. I have a wonderful partner who will be a fabulous father and husband, but I just don’t know if he is “the one”. Any sage advice about accepting relationship compromise (minor issues — I’m not talking about bigger things like shared life goals, communication, etc) vs. the risk of starting over while those fertile years are waning?
I have always had a very hard time compromising (I grew up a bit of a spoiled only child), and that was so hard for me at first. One day I realized that I would feel really bad if my husband always had to have his way on everything, from where we ate every night to how the towels were folded, etc. So, I just made the decision to only get upset about stuff that either really really bothered me (hearing the sound of him biting his nails) or things that were really really important (when do we have kids, religion, etc. — MAJOR stuff). The rest I just shrug off. Soon I realized that I was no longer getting stressed about every little thing. The attitude change has actually made me a lot happier in life, generally.
I’m not sure if those were the kinds of minor things you were thinking about.
I’m in a similar situation in that I’m also 31, but I’m not dating anyone very seriously right now. I have to say this: I worry about fertility, but not as much as I worry about being with the wrong person when I decide to have kids. I’m not saying you should expect your partner to be 100% or that love is like it is in the movies, but getting married because you’re worried that if you break up you’ll never have kids doesn’t sound like the foundation for a strong marriage. And as much as this sort of thing keeps me up at night, I’ve seen plenty of women in their mid-30s meet someone, fall in love, and get engaged in the span of a year. I think it happens faster as you get older–and I’d like to think that’s because you know what you want and what you don’t want.
I can’t say whether you’d be making a mistake or not because I don’t know the degree of uncertainty you have about your relationship, but I wouldn’t let fertility worries allow you to settle for something less than a worthwhile and satisfying relationship.
If you wouldn’t marry him if you hadn’t recently turned 31, then you shouldn’t do it because you did. We may need to know what the “minor issues” are that hold you back from someone who will be a fabulous husband and father. Marriage is hard, so I can’t imagine not starting from being absolutely sure. You can have kids without a husband.
During my second year of law school, at a happy hour, one of my law school professors told me to freeze my eggs. I was 30 and dating someone (whom I’m married to now) at the time. I didn’t but it’s one thought.
OP here — I think you all make great points. For more background on my concerns (though I don’t want to make this all about my life in particular, I’m interested in the hearing generally about people’s experiences with healthy compromise vs. settling) — he is a wonderful person and would be a great partner, our issues are more about having very different interests. These aren’t the Big Things that will alter life logistics — it isn’t diametrically opposed politics or city girl vs. country boy, more along the lines of just not having that magical intellectual connection where you find each other fascinating.
When I was 21, I had boyfriends I could talk to endlessly, who loved what I loved, but who I argued with endlessly and (immaturity aside) would have been terrible matches as a life partner. At 31 it is the opposite — I have a wonderful, thoughtful partner who is not my first call when I read a great book or want to talk about a sad story on the news. I guess what I’m asking is, what will piss off my 41-year-old self more — walking away from a good relationship in prime baby-havin’ years over some missing “magic” element I probably learned from television, or ignoring the doubts? If this was my career, I would take the compromise to be able to have a family. Can you rationalize partners the same way?
I would bring this to a therapist, but I trust this community’s opinion much more ;)
Remember, it is real life here, not the movies. Go for the dude. Your heart may not always flutter, but he is younger than you, and will probably be there for the long term. That will be good when you’re 61 years old and he’s only 51. Let us know how you do. You’re lucky to have a guy who’s trustworthy in these strange times.
How is he at the worst of times? I totally understand what you said about your earlier dating experiences vs. now, and relate. I’m starting to think, though, that in making decisions for the long haul it makes more sense to watch how the guy acts, and how the two of you work (or don’t) when life really throws you one. Unfortunately me and mine have each had a few very bad life events since meeting, but one reason I know I have a keeper is because I came out of each of these times loving him even more. That was when I felt the “magical connection” that I felt I could trust.
My husband just left me, and his explanation for why was basically what you’re saying here. So my advice would be: don’t do it. If you have a niggling feeling that you’re settling for less than what you want, don’t marry him, for your own sake – and for his.
Big hug to you cbackson, hang in there.
Cbackson, I am very sorry you have to go through this, but I just wanted to thank you again for the advice you previously gave me about ending things with my b/f. My current ‘break’ is terrible, but I know it is the right thing. Your advice made me realize that even if he does turn around and say all the things I need, which he likely wont, it will not be from him. It will just be him saying things that someone told him to say. Your advice really opened my eyes so thank you for sharing your story with me.
Thanks, Miriam – I’ve been following your posts. I’m sorry you’re going through a tough time – it’s so hard to be on your own again when you’re accustomed to being part of a couple – but you deserve better than what you were dealing with and I know that you will find it.
Do you mean different interests like you enjoy reading books in your spare time and he enjoys baking, or do you mean that you like going mountain climbing (very time consuming, obviously), and he likes sampling different potato chips while sitting on the couch? I mean, is it one of those things where your hobbies/interests are so different that you can’t even really find a lot to talk about?
Here’s why I ask. DH and I have been married for almost 6 years. We have a lot of the same interests, but there are lots of things that we don’t enjoy doing together. At the end of the day, we have fun talking to each other about our different interests and learning about each other, so I think it’s okay that we have different interests.
About the “magical connection.” DH and I had “a time” last spring where I went through a bit of a crisis in our relationship. I felt like we didn’t have that spark and that we’d never really had it. In fact, I felt that I had that connection with another man and I got really freaked out, had thoughts of cheating, considered divorce. I felt like I could have these intellectual, silly, witty, deep conversations wth this other person. Luckily, I did not act on any of my urges and told DH and we got counselling and decided to stay together. I realized those moments I had with other man were fleeting and that the connection my DH and I have is deeper than the “spark.” I also realized that the banter and deep conversations I had with other man were things I already had with some of my friends who have the same intellectual interests as me, so there was no real reason to seek that in a life partner.
Over the past few months, I’ve decided that the connection is not something that everyone has, and that’s okay. DH and I have taken up a couple of new hobbies that we both enjoy since “the time,” and we’ve gotten much closer. But, I think it’s because we have a good relationship and we’re a good match, even though we never had a spark or any kind of magical, movie connection. So, if you feel really disconnected from your partner and you have never felt close, I don’t think you should marry him. If you’re just yearning for something different, but the two of you are a good couple and generally happy other wise, some introspection might be good so you can figure out what YOU want and need out of a permanent relationship.
This! 100%
I too do not have *that* connection with DH all the time! I have had guy friends in the past with whom I had that connection. I also had girl friends with whom I had that connection.
Sometimes I fret that I do not have that connection with DH and some days I have wondered if we have any spark to our relationship at all. Not greatest feelings to have for sure. Sometimes I wish he is more spontaneous, more adventurous etc.
But then somethign happens that make all those doubts disappear. I love the way he is on the same page with me on so many things. The way we chat sometimes when we are not stressed is wonderful! That time we have that connection.
I also realize that one is rarely if ever, going to have that connection with one person all the time. Each relationship has its peaks and dips. There are other great things that we have in common that keeps us together.
Having said that you know your relationship and your boyfriend. If you are solid grounds in other aspects then this is something to consider. Sometimes so many things are missing in the relationship that it is not worth continuing to work on it.
I could have written this entire post as well. I love my husband of 5 years, without a doubt. I don’t have that make your stomach flutter feeling that I get from watching all the chick flicks, but I love him to the core and would do anything for him. Also had a grass is greener thought a few months ago and realized that no, it isn’t greener, and the grass is pretty nice where I’m at now.
Wow. I just spent the past month thinking about this constantly, and only coming to a happy place again this past week. For the past several weeks, I have been traveling and away from home. I’ve been happily married for five years… and in five years, I have had silly crushes on persons who aren’t my husband, but always things that I have known are simply brief infatuations with people I meet and that I know, were I single and not head over heels with my husband, I would want to be with in a heartbeat. I’ve never actually come close to acting on those urges. I’ve always known that they aren’t serious, and aren’t indicative of something missing in my relationship. But during these past few weeks, I was frequently in the company of a guy that fascinated me. I realized whenever I talked to him that we were always both grinning. We had amazing long conversations. He was like me in many ways that my husband is not – very outgoing, into sports, closer to my age, same sense of humor, etc. – and we had a fantastic time together. No line was ever crossed – he was simply part of my “group” while I traveled, and we’ve known each other for years… I just never noticed a spark before, and I felt that we both knew it was there. I came back home after my trip conflicted – was this just one of those meaningless crushes, knowing that I had met someone I might have had at least a fling and maybe a real relationship with if I had met him six years ago? Was it something more? But being home was my answer: as imperfect as my marriage sometimes is, as different as our interests may sometimes be, I am truly happy when I’m with my husband, and I love our life, and I know that any thrill I might be missing out on by not getting to experience a new romantic relationship is nothing in comparison. I guess I do sometimes miss that spark that happens when two people first start falling for each other. But when I’m actually with my husband, those doubts never stick around for long.
I don’t know what advice to give you – I’ve had doubts, but never lasting ones. I think, however, that it might help to ask yourself: what would YOU be like if your boyfriend was not around? Would you be more or less happy? Relieved? Heartbroken? Would you be a more satisfied person because you would do more things that interest you, or would you miss out on all the experiences you have with him? Do you like the person you are when you are with him more than the person you are without him? Maybe what you need is to have a “break” in your relationship, and see how much you miss one another when you are apart to have a sense of how much of your relationship is because you need and want one another, and how much of it is habit or fear.
Good luck to both of you.
I’m dealing w/ a similar situation to the post above, only I took it a little further. I have a husband of too many years that we’ve lost all “spark” and the capability to have deep conversations w/ each other. We’ve also always been a mess in the bedroom and it’s only gotten worse over time. I recently found the “spark” and solved all bedroom problems w/ another man. My husband is a great partner–practical, reasonable, stable, and we have pretty similar goals in life. But my other guy is all those things plus the spark and all. I am struggling w/ what to do. I feel like I want to end my marriage but keep my friendship w/ the husband (since that’s basically what we are now–friends/roommates), and I’m not sure the best way to do that.
That initial spark of passion where you can stay up all night talking and you have spectacular arguments and great makeup sex afterwards always fades and turns into a sort of comfortable, used to each other feeling. That feeling where you’re so used to each other you can’t imagine not being with him is better than the initial passion, I think. A better question to ask yourself is this – when you’re 41, do you still want to wake up next to your boyfriend? You say he’s wonderful and thoughtful – would you miss the little thoughtful things he does every day? If yes, then stay with him.
Look, my husband is not the first person I would call when I read a good book or have a funny story (except very particular kinds of stories I know he would like). That’s just not something we share. In fact, we can’t talk for hours about anything because he’s a little socially awkward. :) With my husband, what was important to me is that we have deep respect and love for each other, we have similar lifestyle preferences, similar financial and religious outlook, and the same goals regarding children.
The truth is, it’s not required, or even healthy, to get EVERYTHING one needs from life from one person. I get what I need from him, and then I talk to my sister about cooking and teeny-bopper movies, my best friend from grad school about parental issues and celebrity gossip. But that’s me, and what I determined *I* needed (and didn’t need) from my husband. The truth is, if you are not sure you’re getting what *you* need, that doubt will become a problem. Perhaps you *do* need your husband to talk about these intellectual things with you, but don’t care if he spends every Saturday fishing …
In short, decide what you need from your partner in life, and don’t compromise on that. Just don’t be unrealistic in expecting that your partner will be “the only thing you need” in life.
Yes! This is exactly the point I was trying to make with my entirely-too-long post. Very well said, and so so true.
Very well said, and agree 100% that it’s not possible, or healthy, to have all one’s types of relationship needs and wants and types of interaction with only one person, even a spouse.
“just not having that magical intellectual connection where you find each other fascinating”
This is me and my husband. I always thought I’d have to marry a “words” person, probably someone in law, or at least history or literature. Instead I ended up marrying a research scientist. He’s smart, but not the same way I am. He has to look up words I use sometimes. He wonders aloud what the standard deviation of our tire tracks on the driveway is. And it works beautifully. No, he’s not the person I drag to see Harry Potter movies with me (not much into fiction, while I’m a cult fan), but that gives me something to do with my girlfriends. He is stable, has similar values, a wonderful father, and loves me unwaveringly. While my 20-year-old self might not have been interested, my 27-year-old self is realizing I got the better deal.
I completely agree! I thought I would marry a “words” person too, but I find that after working all day as a lawyer, I don’t want to talk about “smart/intellectual” stuff at the end of the day. I love that we can talk about a bunch of other stuff instead. And while my husband did graduate from college, he is much more “handy” and prefers building and fixing things, which is really helpful around our older house!
Also, we have been together for almost 8 years, and while the initial butterflies are not really there anymore (every now and then he will do or say something that brings them back), we have settled into a much deeper, more comfortable connection. And watching him with our children makes me fall in love with him all over again!
I am very happily married to a non- words scientist. Honestly, he is not the person I envisioned myself marrying many years ago, but I luckily realized that he, not the person in my imagination, made me happy. I dated a true intellectual long-term before I met my husband, and frankly if he and his friends are any indication of the norm, those people can be real jerks. I also wholeheartedly agree with those who say you don’t need to get everything from your partner.
Haha! “Standard deviation of tire tracks” is hilarious. I know someone like this :)
Your relationship sounds like mine. My SO is just not moved by the same things as I am. I don’t think we’re “soulmates” or “one-and-onlies.” But I do think we’re good teammates, and he’s probably a bit more grounded/less emotional than I am, which might be good in parenting. I guess what I’m saying is that we’re basically complements to one another, which is in some ways better and in some ways worse than being identical. Sometimes it bothers me that his preference is X while mine is Y, both for big things and small (tv v. reading, going out v. going in, education v. environment). And I have friends whose partners are more their male counterparts than their complements, and sometimes I wish my relationship were more like theirs. But basically I’m satisfied, and I see this as working for me, and hopefully that is enough.
That having been said, I think Person’s advice is really helpful for me, too. I’ve been trying not to be a nag, but it’s hard since I really like things done my way.
Not being your first call to share certain things or not having that incredible rare conversation spark IMO not a dealbreaker and not very important in a life partner. People who choose their partners based on that (in my non scientific opinion) are likely to end up changing partners fairly frequently. That kind of fascination is not long term close contact. There’s nothing wrong and everything good about getting some of your need fulfilled by other people.
What is important is something you haven’t mentioned and that’s love. Does looking at him make you melt inside from love? Not always, not even usually, but sometimes? Do you think he truly loves you, the way you want to be loved? Are you compatible? IMO those three criteria are really all there is to it.
It warms my heart to read everyone’s responses to this question. Thanks for letting us into your relationships, everyone. :)
I think what we want from a partner changes as we get older. When I think back on what I wanted from a man in my 20s, I wanted someone who impressed me intellectually. Now, I want someone who won’t be intimidated by me and my career. (I’m single.)
A friend of mine (around 30) is involved with a man whom she considers her best friend. They have a sexual relationship, and she seeks him for comfort when she’s feeling down. She tells me it’s not a “romantic” relationship, because neither of them “feel that spark.” As far as I’m concerned, though, I wish I had a relationship like she does.
If he’s there when you need him, and loves you, then I think having separate hobbies is probably a positive thing.
I’m not sure if you’re trying to allude that maybe he can’t keep up with you intellectually. My two cents: That’s generally a problem for me, because I was in school for so long that I have found that I don’t have much (experiences/values) in common with guys who worked throughout their young adulthood rather than being in school.
“If this was my career, I would take the compromise to be able to have a family. Can you rationalize partners the same way?”
Yes, definitely. I wish more people would approach marriage/life partnership decisions with the same sober, clear-minded deliberation as they do their business decisions. We are emotional beings, so it’s hard to think in such terms, but we should really try. Listen, if this guy would make a great husband and father, then he IS “the one.”
I’ve been married for over 10 years to a man I initially feared was not “the one.” We had chemistry, but I was never madly in love or lust with him. In fact, I only ever seemed to have what you describe as “that magical intellectual connection where you find each other fascinating” with the artistic/ nurturing/ irresponsible/ crazy/ brilliant type. I would only fall for people who, in retrospect, were a lot like my mother (hello, therapy!) and who would have made me miserable in the long run. I love my mother deeply, but I have no idea how my father put up with her, as I would have divorced her in a heartbeat. Thank goodness I came to my senses in time to say “yes” to my husband. He is the best thing that ever happened to me. We have a son now, who is the light of our lives. I am very much in love with him, just not “madly” so. And that is a good thing, trust me.
You sound like me, except I have yet to find the stable partner component. I’ve spent a lot of time lusting after and being heartbroken by the artistic/irresponsible/unreliable types and while the connection can sometimes be exhilarating, I think I’ve reached the point where I value a stable, deep connection over such uncertainty.
Oh, man. You are taking me back to a time in my life when I felt much the same way.
Before I met my husband, I had an absolutely terrible relationship with a really exciting guy. We agreed about nothing and had long arguments about politics, art, religion, etc. I was young and I had never really had anyone challenge my deeply-held beliefs that I had mainly gotten from my parents, and from reading books. He read complicated philosophy and watched foreign films and listened to weird, experimental music, and on top of it liked to drink – a lot – and had a hairtrigger temper. The only person I’ve ever stayed up till 4 a.m. talking to. That relationship was a lot of things, but it was never boring.
When I met my husband, he was so calm and comfortable by comparison. We agreed on so much. We hardly ever had big debates, although we would have long conversations about things. We did like the same movies, but liked totally different books, totally different music, etc. But that was okay and he never wanted to debate the merits of what I liked vs. what he liked. Everything was smooth sailing. No big arguments. No big conflict. For a long time I really questioned whether or not a person who I didn’t find “intellectually challenging” could really be The One. There was no big drama and I kind of felt like that meant we didn’t have some kind of “spark” or that there wasn’t enough passion in the relationship (although the sex was great, sorry if TMI).
What I can tell you now, about 15 years in, is that I am so glad I married a man who is kind, stable, loving and easygoing and not one who feels the need to challenge me about every little thing. In a short-term relationship, the challenging stuff is exciting. Over the course of a long marriage, I think I would get heartily sick of a constant back-and-forth over things that didn’t really matter. I love my husband and we still have great conversations about many things, and I find him very interesting. He does challenge my beliefs and I learn new things from him all the time. But there isn’t that constant friction that was so exciting in my earlier relationship, that I think would have gone from stimulating to abrasive by now.
That said. My husband is The One, it just took me awhile to realize it. And I can’t imagine being married to someone who I wasn’t sure was The One. Being married – especially once you have kids – is really hard at times. Without a deep bond and a lot of love to keep it together, I’m not sure how people make it.
I don’t have an answer for you but I will say, the fairy tale version of marriage that a lot of women have does them a disservice. I would put mutual compatibility, solid communication, shared values and a common approach towards problem-solving ahead of “spark,” excitement and passion without those things, when it comes to marriage. A lot of passion and low compatibility seems to be a recipe for a quick divorce, based on the couples I’ve seen. I think it’s good that you are thinking there are probably compromises that are acceptable, but I also think a marriage where two people aren’t really in love with each other is going to cause a lot of hurt all around. Compromise is one thing but be honest with yourself about whether or not you are really in love with this man, the kind of love that will last through years and hard times. The very worst outcome here isn’t that you will end up 41 and still single, it’s that you will end up 41 and divorced after many years of a protracted bad marriage, and possibly still childless or with small children you will have to raise by yourself. I don’t know any of my divorced friends who wouldn’t trade their bad marriage for more years of singlehood in a New York minute.
I applaud you for thinking this through and getting other opinions. Good luck to you.
Sounds like we had the same ex boyfriend. ;)
OP – if you are like most of the women here, my guess is you are incredibly smart and have a hard time finding people who can challenge those smarts. Like the PP, when I was younger I spent many years with a man who knew everything about anything. We would stay up til 4 AM arguing string theory, the laws of thermodynamics, religion, politics, wine making, women’s history and modern day feminism – you name it, he always seemed to know more about it then me. My family hated him and thought he was a pretentious know it all. I loved that about him! It was exciting and I felt like i had met my match.
That said, any simple task we had to do together was a nightmare. We couldn’t agree on grocery shopping, cooking, laundry, cleaning, walking our dog, finances. You name it, we couldn’t do it together without a philosophical debate.
Being challenged gets old. Staying up all night debating the world leads for an exhausting following day.
I don’t need to be challenged, I need to be supported. I need someone who I know will show up to the hospital the day I am birthing our child. Exciting is overrated IMO. I roll my eyes when my single friends tell me they want someone exciting. I want someone who I can rely on, not someone who doesn’t come home one night because he got some great spark of genius to travel somewhere on a whim.
And believe it or not, there is more to learn in life than what “intellectuals” well tell you is important. There are lessons worth learning all around you in the world, and my guess is, your BF can teach you a few of them if you hone in on his good points. He might not be up for a philosophical debate, but you can still learn from him and how he views the world. Is he kind? Is he patient? Does he go out of his way to make you feel loved? These are the things worth learning that come from actions, not conversations.
I’m probably going to get slammed for this post because I’m going to tell you about someone I admire but she is totally the exception not the rule. Nonetheless, I think her story is worth hearing.
First – my point – if being with the man you are with now gets you children you love and are willing to raise on your own if need be, then so what if your marriage/relationship fails someday.
The story – I work with an AMAZING woman who is a mom to some beautiful, well adjusted, smart kids. She works full time in a high demand job. She has a house and a dog and takes exotic vacations. She dates and has insane stories like sex in the city. She is one of the few who seems to have it all. What she doesn’t have is a husband. They divorced. But she swears that she couldn’t be happier. She now gets to live the wild and crazy single life when he has the kids and gets to be the loving mom when she does. They live in the same town and share custody. Now I’m not saying this is necessarily the best thing for kids – having two homes. But, her kids really seem great and like they enjoy adventures with mom and adventures with dad.
You don’t have to be married to have a life and family you love. I’m not saying use this guy for kids but if you are happy with the idea of raising kids alone, take a chance and go for it. If you get a life partner too, so much better!
For what it’s worth these children may appear “well adjusted” and “happy” to you, but I have an aunt who had a very similar marriage/divorce/child situation. From the outside, everything looks fine, but for those of us who know them well, things aren’t.
I think any advice that suggest you go into a marriage just to have children – regardless of whether you think the marriage may fail – is not probably the best. In that case, why get married to have kids at all? Maybe it would be better to do artificial insemination to become a single mom, than to get married to have kids and later tear those kids’ family apart. Obviously, sometimes divorce is unavoidable, but why go into a marriage you suspect may fail?
With divorce, as opposed to A.I., you still have (or should have) two loving parents.
My parents divorced, were never madly in love with each other when they married (big age difference), and I both seem well adjusted and actually am super well adjusted, too.
I would actually advise everyone to think about their relationships in terms of how their partners would be in the event of a split. To borrow from Seinfeld, someone who is a good “breaker-upper” is essential, imo.
You should not go into any relationship planning for failure, but not taking it into consideration is foolish, I think.
And as to BL’s story, I believe the words “exception to the rule” were included there throughout… :)
I’ve been married 6 months and dating my husband almost 8 years. I had exactly the same concerns you had when I was making the decision to stay with him long term (after college). Someone I talked to about it asked me “Do you think the ways he’s different from you make you a better/more well-rounded person?” And I realized that they do. I like to read, watch tv, and knit. He likes to read, bike, and climb mountains. He’s taught me to hike, I give him book recommendations and got him hooked on Castle.
We like the same types of books, but our conversations about them tend to be one or two sentences long. If I want to have a really in depth conversation about the latest book I read, I call my best friend. Our political beliefs are similar, but he doesn’t like disagreeing with me, so when I want to run an idea by someone who will really force me to think it through, I call my best friend’s husband. And trust me, if I were married to either one of them, it would drive me mad.
My husband makes me happy. Every morning when I wake up I wonder how anyone can not be happy when they get to wake up next to their husband in the morning. In the end, I think that trumps everything else.
Well, I have been married for 25 years. One, only marriage. I have to tell you that interests form over time as well. I never imagined I’d be doing home renovations and have learned plumbing, tile, carpentry, electricity etc. Never thought I would desire and then be given a wood lathe! I knew my DH’s family was hands-on, but never thought it would include clumsy me. I also knew that Dh’s family could have a plant die and not care. Little did I know that my own latent green thumbs would spark something and we are both now passionate gardeners, with shared and competitive knowledge bases and ideas! Orchids, plumerias, used to make topiaries, so forth.
Interests can grow over time. It’s the ability to trust, love, do for each other, try to understand, and consistency which lead to loyalty, long bonds, and true love. We often refer to some of our arguments as “watch fob/hair combs” as we offer up our own passions in compromise simultaneously (“Gift of the Magi” by O. Henry).
Yeah, the sparks come and go … but the ability to love and care without hurricanes of passion can help in times of illness, injury, screwed up hormones, or exhaustion with work/crises/children/ageing parents etc.
This isn’t any suggestion – it’s just what my 25 years have taught me. When I get frustrated with something, I immediately wonder what I’d do if he wasn’t here…exacerbated by his often travelling and having overseas postings…I know that answer. Lonely, bored, miserable.
We are the second longest marriage of all our high school and college and social friends. If that means anything. I’m often in professional groups and when we chat superficially about life, I’m the only one with one marriage.
You really might want to confer with a therapist to sort out your needs and why you think they are your, undeniable needs. If that’s the case … well …
Best wishes and congratulations for taking this seriously – marriage and family-building is a serious endeavour.
It’s very awesome to hear from someone in a long-term marriage who has made it work. Congrats to you and your husband for hanging in together for 25 years. :)
“Every morning when I wake up I wonder how anyone can not be happy when they get to wake up next to their husband in the morning. In the end, I think that trumps everything else.”
This put such a big smile on my face! To me, this is the key. Is your partner kind, thoughtful, willing to help you out, supportive? These attributes tend to lead to long-term happiness (in my experience) so much more than excitement and frisson. And in my 20 years of dating before I got married, I definitely had both.
I married someone who I thought I had everything in common with and could talk to for hours. We shared a very unusual intellectual hobby, at which he was better than I was, and he spent a lot of time helping me improve at it. His father had the same job I did, and my father had the same job he did, so we both understood each others’ jobs fairly well and could talk about them. We had very similar views on politics, religion, life goals. I felt I could say anything to him. AND he seemed totally devoted to me. We did fight some, but no more than I think many couples do. But, the sex was mediocre from the beginning and got worse over time. I also had to do a disproportionate amount of the organizing of our lives – he was theoretically very willing to help, but completely unable to plan, keep track of things that needed to be done, or organize, and he was unable to accept constructive criticism on these points.
He wanted to marry me anyway, and I figured this was the safe choice. I wasn’t concerned about kids as you are, but I was scared to leave a safe relationship and figured every relationship requires compromise.
Our marriage failed. We have debated why (because we can still talk about anything), but I think a lot of it is that I felt I was settling and became increasingly resentful about how much of the work of maintaining our household I had to bear, and he picked up on that and felt unwanted despite the fact that I followed every bit of relationship advice out there on how to make your spouse feel appreciated. The sex problems got worse and my sex drive disappeared, which didn’t help (it came back after we separated, BTW). I got too busy with work to enjoy our shared hobby (which continued to be a big part of his life) and he picked up another big hobby that I couldn’t really participate in (it requires being able to keep track of a lot of trivia, which I can’t do).
We found over time that we had less and less to talk about, and as our marriage was breaking down he said he found me boring to talk to. In fact, he seemed to start to dislike everything about me, even though he’d been my biggest fan for the first few years of our relationship.
Maybe I just got unlucky. But what I took away from my relationship is two things. First, a strong physical connection seems to be important. Yes, it won’t be as exciting in the long run as it was in the beginning, but if you are compatible sexually then you’ll be able to rekindle some of that occasionally, which will strengthen your bond and keep you from growing apart as much as my ex and I did. Look not only for chemistry, but also for whether you think about sex the same way – if one person is repressed and the other is adventurous, for example, that’s a red flag. Second, I will look for someone who has good relationship skills. When my ex and I were working on our problems I read a great book called The Seven Principles for Making Marriage Work. I realized that most of the things the book said happy couples do, I did but my husband didn’t – and couldn’t. I probably could have figured that out before we got married, if I’d known how important those personality traits were going to be.
I think you can connect with a person on three levels – physical, emotional, and intellectual. Of those, I would prioritize the physical and emotional. By the emotional, I mean that he is interested in hearing about your thoughts and feelings and knows how to empathize with you and support you (he might need some training on this – if so, ask him to read Mars versus Venus, or tell him about it, and see if he is able to improve).
Everything else will change – your interests, his interests, what you each like to talk about, how much you like to talk at all, maybe even the life goals that you think you do or don’t agree on now. But your physical and emotional connection will sustain you, and are the hardest things to change. As others have said, you can get a lot of your intellectual stimulation from others, but most people rely on their spouse for both physical connection and emotional support (I find that as I get older, my friends are too busy to provide this in the way that they did when we were in our 20s). Obviously, don’t marry someone who you can’t respect because he’s not in your league intellectually at all, but I wouldn’t worry if you find that you prefer to have long intellectual conversations with your friends instead of with him. That’s not what marriage is about, particularly once you have kids.
Yes! you can be intellectually promiscuous while remaining emotionally and sexually monogamous.
I just wanted to chime back in now that you’ve clarified your problem a bit. I initially read your question a bit differently and thought your issue was more that you weren’t all that into your boyfriend but thought you should just stay put for the sake of fertility. Reading your follow-up comment, it sounds like a matter of figuring out what makes a marriage work and what makes you (you, personally) happy in that marriage. I don’t pretend to have the answer to that question yet (I’m still figuring that out myself) but I don’t see that as a question of “settling” so much as figuring out what makes you happiest. Therapy can be a big help there–I highly recommend it. Good luck to you and just remember that fear is not always the best motivator.
Very late to this discussion, but something my husband and I did before we married about 10 years ago was visit a marriage counselor (through the local Jewish Community Center). And, we did it primarily for what we referred to–and still do–as “the calibration sessions.” It was a place where we could have honest and specific discussions about our expectations, fantasies and goals for subjects like finances, having children, child-rearing and discipline, and divisions of labor. I’ve realized over the years that when my husband has an opinion or an interest that surprises me, it’s about the dressing–a song, a movie, a joke, a fashion (eek!)–and never about who he is at his core. The sessions with the counselor started out awkward and almost like a series of first dates, but I learned so much about him that still rings true today. Not saying we’re perfect, by any means, but having help from somone who could help us identify issues of contention that arise in marriages and talk about (guess at) how we’d approach was very helpful. Consider it.
My husband and I participated in something like that before marriage (as required by the Catholic Church). It is called “Engaged Encounter.” It was very enlightening. I cannot recommend this highly enough.* We went through an entire workbook of questions to answer together, which forced us to confront issues like child-rearing attitudes, division of housework, division of money and expenses, work/life balance for those of us headed for or already in professional careers, etc.
The experience confirmed that we’d make a good couple, even though we disagreed on a small number of things. The key is that we knew those things going into the marriage and acknowledged they were not “dealbreakers.” A decade later, we are still very happily married. No regrets.
*Caveat: Well, except for the discussion about “natural family planning” and how other forms of birth control are a sin. We’re definitely not hard-core traditional Catholics, but we’re respectful of others’ beliefs, so we just sat quietly and ignored that part.
YEA!!! weekend thread!!!!!! SO excited that I am off the entire weekend AND Monday. good times will ensue.
I have a question – has anyone done this HIIT interval training Kat mentioned in the weekly roundup? I used to be quite fit and active, but have basically morphed into a slug. And I am relying far too much on the “I don’t have time” excuse . . . I think 20 minute running interval training would be a great kickstart.
Has anyone tried this and can offer feedback?
I do it on my bike a couple of times a month, and I really love it. It makes me sweat enough that I feel like I’ve really done something, but it doesn’t take a million years. I actually even printed it off and gave it to a friend. She does it on her bike or on the elliptical and has also been very happy.
Intervals are nothing new, but they are highly effective training techniques for getting your heart rate up, keeping interest in your workout, etc. I’m a little hesitant when people talk about “high intensity” intervals, because it’s unclear whether they intend to keep their intensity below threshold. You want to burn fat, not muscle, and if you are working above threshold (85-92% MHR), you’re going into that zone, which is counterproductive to weight loss and endurance efforts. If you think about elite athletes like cyclists, they’ll spend 80% of their training time doing endurance work….Joe Shmoe on the treadmill at the gym shouldn’t be working at really high intensity all the time, either.
All of this is to say, if it’s a question between doing a 20 minute interval and doing nothing at all, definitely do the interval! But in your higher intensity, I’d aim for an 8/10, not a 9/10 or 10/10 in terms of your effort–you’ll be able to recover more quickly, and ensure that you are burning fat, not muscle. You may also want to invest in a heart rate monitor, which can be a fantastic motivator and tool.
Good luck!
I used to do hill sprints as part of a larger training program–sprint up, walk down–and it was great exercise. I am also a slug these days, but I have been getting myself on an elliptical machine, and I usually do an interval program. It’s nice because you push yourself in bursts, and then you have an active rest, so, like the article said, you can do it even if you’re not in great shape and just push yourself harder as you get in better shape. I’m hoping that it will help me get to a better general fitness level so that I can work up to longer runs again.
I haven’t tried it yet but am starting this weekend. Good luck to you and me both!
I’m looking for a new watch– something professional enough to wear to work, but preferably not too expensive. Any suggestions?
Me too! I like silver-tone and darker, but everything in my price range is too bulky or has crystal indicators, which is not my style.
I have a simple Fossil watch in copper. It keeps time and looks fine and goes with most things (or at least doesn’t clash), and I don’t worry too much about my baby son getting ahold of it and chewing on it. It was about $70.
I love my Fossil watch – affordable, professional looking and very durable.
The jewelry/watch counter at any department store (think Macy’s or similar) will have lots of appropriate options in the $50+ range. I have a gold metal-band Timex that looks perfectly fine with a suit. I saw a lot of good Anne Klein ones as well. Leather bands can be even cheaper, if that’s what you’re interested in.
P.S. the same items marked down will show up at Filene’s Basement, TJ Maxx etc.
Yea for Timex! I also wear with a gold/brushed silver metal band. It works, it’s durable, it’s not flashy or showy, so I doubt anyone notices it. Doesn’t impress anyone, I’m sure, but also doesn’t offend anyone. Can’t afford a Rolex, so I decided to stop spending $75 for watches that only last about a year.
I got an Anne Klein watch at TJ Maxx – silver bracelet style. Try there first and maybe you’ll save yourself some money!
I love my Fossil watch. Affordable, professional and extremely durable.
Sample sale sites frequently have watches in the under $100 range. Rue La La has Rotary watches, originally around $300, on sale for about $90 today.
(I don’t wear or own a watch, so I’m not that familiary with the brand, but at least once a week there is usually some sort of similar watch sale going on.)
I like Skagen – very simple, minimalist designs, easy to find for around $90 or so.
I also love, love Skagen. Very low profile, sleek and reasonably priced.
I agree, I have a Skagen that cost around $100. It looks very professional, but is still cute. And I get compliments on it all the time.
Skagen is awesome. They often have them for about $55 at places like Nordstrom Rack, Filene’s Basement, etc.
Very comfortable, durable & professional.
They had a nice Skagen at Costco, too, recently for about $60.
my husband got me a nice ESQ watch from Macys for my birthday. It’s stainless, but has diamonds on the face. I am not sure how much he paid, but it’s handled everyday wear and tear for a couple of years. I’d suggest Macys if you’re looking for something not too expensive. I think that Fossil or Kenneth Cole are good recs too!
I recently got a two-tone ESQ and I love it, it’s very versatile. Great quality for the price, especially if you can find one on sale.
If you’re looking for a fairly conservative, metal band, finished style, I have the following suggestions.
– In the very inexpensive category (<$100), try Skagen. One of our young associates wears one. It looks sleek and understated.
– For something a little more expensive (a couple hundred dollars maybe, be sure to look for sales or online), try Bulova, Tissot, ESQ or Citizen. All are perfectly acceptable for the office. Stay away from "designer name" watches in the same price range because they are usually less well made and go out of fashion quickly.
– That said, if you're going to spend a couple hundred dollars on a watch that may or may not need to be replaced in a few years, I recommend saving up a bit more for a reasonably-priced "lifetime" watch like a Tag, Rado or Longines (<$1000 if you shop carefully on-line). I used to accessorize outfits with watches — I had one of every color and fashion statement. But nowadays, I stick with one watch that I think of like a piece of "good" jewelry instead of as a piece of "fashion" jewelry. (My watch and my wedding ring are the two items I wear with everything.) I bought my watch for a few grand several years ago, but ended up saving money in the long run because I stopped buying the latest trendy watch every so often.
Last piece of advice: in watches it is better to buy the lowest model of a well-reputed brand (e.g., the simplest Bulova) than a watch with all the bells and whistles made by a lesser brand (e.g., the top of the line Skagen for the same price). My husband says the opposite applies to cars, but that is a whole 'nother discussion.
I’ve been looking for an absolute intro to watches, and that was just perfect. Thanks!
Seconded – thanks!
Agree on all this. I have a Citizen Eco Drive (solar powered, no need to replace the battery) I bought 5 years ago, wear daily, and it still looks great. I’d add Seiko to your list of mid-range brands–they also make classic watches that last for years.
Another vote for Citizen. I’m also prone to flinging my arms around when I get excited and banging up my watches a little bit, but my Citizen (4 months, so not that long) looks great, and it has a really good 3 year warranty that comes with.
I have two watches, a Longines and a Raymond Weil (similar price range). One is silver and one is gold-plated; both are very simple but classy and I have gotten compliments on both. I love them so much more than the watches I used to wear because they have the hidden clasp that is very secure but doesn’t add bulk – something that when I was shopping, I couldn’t find in the Citizen range. They also continue to work and look great year after year, even though I don’t make any particular effort to treat them with care. The watches I had before these would eventually stop because they somehow got water in them, etc.
I bought one in Chinatown at a 25% discount to retail, and the other I bought on sale at a department store. They were around $950 and $450 each, and I expect to get 20 years of wear out of them (whereas the $150 ones I used to buy broke within 5 years). They are among the few purchases I have never regretted. Not the way to go if you’re a person who loves to replace and upgrade accessories, but if you just want something that looks nice and think you’ll be happy to wear it for years, I agree with watchaholic that it’s worth splurging a bit if you can manage it.
Check out Skagen. Very nice watches appropriate for work. They sell them at Costco, too.
I have a beautiful sterling silver Calvin Klein. It’s stood up great over time, and looks like a chunky silver bracelet (the watch “face” is very streamlined black). I always get tons of compliments on it, and people are usually surprised to realize it is actually a watch, which I like since I usually don’t like most watch designs, and I wear pretty much only silver jewelry similar in style to the watch.
Can’t offer brands per say (I kind of splurge and wear the same thing for years). But I got an amazing deal on a Movado at Ashford.com a couple of years ago. I would totally recommend checking out their clearance section, especilly now after Xmas.
Great suggestions. I’m thinking about buying myself a Skagen for graduation.
Are you supposed to match your watch with your jewelry? I understand that is what two-tone watches are for, but I’m not a huge fan. What about black leather bands? Can you wear a black watch with a brown suit?
I want to thank everyone here for a little inspiration. Several months ago, I asked for tips about getting leaner and weight loss. I have undergone a major transition (in a positive way) in my job in the last few months, and I am continuing the process of losing weight I had gained in less healthier times. Everyone gave me helpful, supportive but not sugar coated advice and tips.
Over the last six months, I’ve lost 10 lbs. I’m back in my skinny pants and trim fit button up shirts. I’m headed to Hawaii next week and while there is no way that I will be the most toned or shapely woman on the beach, I feel good about my body in a way that I haven’t felt in literally years. I will wear a swimsuit and feel fine with it.
I still have a ways to go and more goals to achieve, but I’m trying to reflect and be proud of myself for what I’ve done. The weight loss has been gradual, but consistent. Taking up a barre/yoga/pilates class was huge for slimming my core and butt. Eating small snacks frequently and writing down everythign I put into my mouth has been huge. I still have food issues and more to work on in that area.
I want to thank my fellow corporetters for their advice, including straight talk and honest truths.
Congratulations, that’s a real accomplishment and you have a great attitude. Have a wonderful time on your well-deserved trip!
YAY! Great job! Keep it up.
That’s awesome. Congratulations!
That’s wonderful! Always good to hear about hard (and healthy) work being rewarded.
way to go :) keep it up!
Yay! I love that we help each other out like this.
Thank you for posting this. You’re providing me inspiration. I’ve been thinking about starting a exercise/diet regime, but have been hobbled right out the gate by the belief that no one actually succeeds at them. It’s wonderful to hear a success story!
congrats congrats congrats!
Lynnet:
It is hard work. I am not as young as I used to be. My life is busy, but better than it used to be. I am taking the attitude that it took me several years to put the weight on, it will take me awhile to get it off. No bikini in 6 weeks kind of plan, just slow progress, small steps, little changes that add up to a big lifestyle change. It is working, though I have to keep working it every day. It IS possible, but you can do it too!
Thanks so much for sharing and inspiring us!
This came at the perfect time. I’m starting my goal (10 lb weight loss) this week. I’m trying for a slow, gradual loss that I can keep off for good. Thanks for the inspiration!
Enjoy Hawaii- it’s gorgeous
Congratulations!!!
Do you find that now that you exercise and eat better, you have more energy? That is something that I am trying to remind myself of, as I’m currently in a diet and exercise slump. It feels like I have no time or energy to prepare healthy snacks, track my food intake and work out, but I suspect that if I could just get started, the energy would come, I’d get to sleep faster, and as a result I’d have more time.
Thanks for the inspiration – maybe this will be the weekend I get back on track!
Congratulations EC!
Just wanted to share that I found great fitting dress pants at the Gap. The curvy cut pants are fitted, don’t gape in the back and stayed true to shape through the day. FWIW.
Just wanted to say thanks to everyone who gave me “wear the suit!” advice yesterday. It was definitely the right call–I would absolutely have felt under-dressed otherwise–so thanks for setting me straight! :)
Oh good! How was the interview?
I think it went well but I’m not sure that I blew them out of the water. They’re interviewing people who generally fall in to one of two skill set categories and haven’t yet figured out which one will fit best with this project, so we’ll see how it turns out.
Thanks for asking!
Happy weekend everyone!
Has anyone ever sold a wedding dress? I have an unworn one (no bad history just abandoned the big wedding for town hall, still married 9 yrs later) taking up closet space. I am debating between Craigslist, Ebay and the specific wedding dress sites. Any good or bad experiences with any sites? Thanks!
I would like to know the answer to this one too. I want to sell my never-worn bridesmaid dress.
I sold one on preownedweddingdresses.com. It took a long time, and I got a lot of false hits before someone actually purchased. Kind of a pain, but still worth the money I got out of it. (My dress was from the last season, designer gown, never worn.) The market for used dresses was not that hopping in my experience, so if your 9y0 dress is not a classic style, you may have a hard time selling it, unless you’re pricing it ridiculously cheap. In that case, it might not be worth the cost of cleaning/shipping plus hassle.
We use eBay to sell many things, and have had mostly positive experiences. I buy and sell quite a few items of clothing with few problems. The main thing to keep in mind when selling is to choose the type of auction that will satisfy you, emotionally. For instance, if you would would be unhappy that the dress sold for less than $200, then start the auction at that price or set a reserve price. Just know that it may never sell. If you start the auction at $1, it will definitely sell, but you may be sad if it draws only a $5 bid.
Only accept PayPal, which has an extensive program to protect both buyers and sellers. Take lots of photos. Search eBay for “completed listings” that are similar to your dress to get a sense for what they sell for, and which listings drew the highest bids. Some things sell best with “foo foo” language (emotionally-based fantasies around the item) but others do best with cold, hard facts. (Foo-foo: “Feel like a fairy princess on your special day with this gossamer lace dream of a dress!” Facts: “Jolyene brand dress, style number 4586, size 8, white with pearl detail.”) I sold the tiara I wore to my wedding using “foo foo” words for more than I paid for the darn thing. Silly, but it can work!
I recommend that you only sell to buyers within your own country to avoid the hassle of international shipping and customs. Yes, you limit your audience, but if you live in the US or Canada, there are still plenty of buyers.
You can embed photos in the listing with HTML without paying for eBay’s extra charges for multiple pictures. Just upload them on Picasa or Flickr or Smugmug first. eBay’s special packages with bold fonts, special colors, putting your listing at the top, etc., are not worth the money for clothing.
Make sure you research how much it will cost you to ship the dress to the farthest corner of your country, and charge at least that much for shipping. Exception: if wedding dresses in the “completed listings” sell best with free shipping, use that and start your auction price high enough to cover shipping. Nothing worse than LOSING money on the sale!
I am more inclined to buy clothing if the item is photographed from several angles, preferably on a hanger or mannequin, or model with face not showing. Blurry photo? I won’t buy, period. If you can’t take the time to take another FREE digital photo, then you probably aren’t a reliable seller. Give measurements, too: waist, bust, etc. Not just “size 10” since that varies widely.
Hope that helps! If you have more questions, I’ll check back here again over the weekend.
Wow, great tips. I’ve used ebay before, but not extensively. I have a bunch of pieces in my closet that I hardly ever wear but that I’m not really prepared to just dump at goodwill. I’ve been thinking of giving ebay a go – this weekend might be the weekend it happens!
So much great advice from everyone today!
Thanks everyone! It is a simple strapless dress with a little beading and small train and I really wasn’t expecting more than $250 for it so I may give it a try.
I used to Ebay all the time (mostly textbooks) and have a good seller rating, but I was unsure how their market for wedding dresses is. I also have a friend who was basically Ebaying for a living and had some real horror stories on clothing sales. I agree with everything Louise said, I used to take home pics of my textbooks even though you could download stock ones, just so no one could say “I didn’t know the corner was frayed.”
I bought mine on Craigslist, so there’s at least some evidence that people buy such things off of Craigslist. I went to the woman’s house with my sister, she let me use her bedroom to try the dress on and I was happy with it, so I paid her some cash and we went on our way. It was the only dress I tried on.:)
We moved six months later, and I ended up giving my dress away to a charity that helps low-income women with their weddings.
That’s a nice idea too, do you remember what the charity was?
I sold my wedding dress on ebay. It worked fine. It was a $400 dress, I sold it for $99. I sold it un-cleaned, too, and disclosed all the smudges and stuff from the reception (I had found out that it would be $250 to clean my dress, and decided I’d rather just sell it and disclose the spots).
If you just want it out of your closet and don’t care if you make money, your local high school or community college’s theater department would likely love to have your wedding dress in their costume closet. Just a thought.
I know this was posted quite some time ago, but I sold my used wedding dress on oncewed.com and it worked out really well. It offers protections like eBay and the buyers are very honest and nice. Hope that helps!
Need a little advice from the any pregnant Corporette ladies/mothers –
My best friend from college is 4 months pregnant and lives in another state. I hate being so far away during her pregnancy and I want to send her a nice treat to let her know I’m thinking about her. I definitely want to get something specifically for her, not like a baby gift that I will get for the shower. I was thinking about a gift certificate for a maternity massage, but I just wanted to see if anyone else has any suggestions. TIA!
I have never been pregnant, but I got my long distance friend a maternity massage at a local spa – she’s very frugal and would never bought something like that for herself, but she said she felt SO much better afterwards.
As for the shower, I told her since I couldn’t be there for it, I would fill a hole in her wish list after her shower was over. She got a ton of cute little clothes because those are fun to buy, but not the nursing equipment basics she really needed. She ended up asking me for a specific nursing pillow. While it wasn’t a “exciting” gift, I was happy to get it for her and she uses it every day, unlike all the cute clothes her son quickly outgrew.
Maternity massage! They are wonderful. Also, it may sound weird and she may not need it yet, but Boppy makes a body pillow (it looks like two crescent-shaped pillows sewn together; not the standard “Boppy pillow” for the baby) that has helped me sleep comfortably during both my pregnancies.
Another thoughtful gift would be a gift certificate for Zappos. My feet grew a bit and made some of my go-to shoes uncomfortable, and as I got bigger I didn’t feel comfortable wearing some of my higher heels.
My new-mom-friend told me that the best gift she ever got from her shower was a gift certificate to a spa near her house for a mani-pedi. She redeemed it the week after she had her daughter, and she said she’s never appreciated a pedicure so much in her life before.
What a good friend you are! I don’t think you can go wrong with “mom-pampering” gifts like massage and manicures. Everyone is so focused on the baby that sometimes the woman gets forgotten. Some of my friends have waited until after the baby is born to use them, but that’s fine, too.
For friends in cities I’m not familiar with, I’ve used google to find massage places with good reviews. I use this technique myself when traveling, and usually it pans out well.
What a good friend you are! I don’t think you can go wrong with “mom-pampering” gifts like massage and manicures. Everyone is so focused on the baby that sometimes the woman gets forgotten. Some of my friends have waited until after the baby is born to use them, but that’s fine, too.
For friends in cities I’m not familiar with, I’ve used google to find massage places with good reviews. I use this technique myself when traveling, and usually it pans out well.
Hi,
How nice of you to get her a thoughtful gift!
A pregnancy massage sounds great, just make sure the massage technician does specialize in pregnancy massages (coupon for a regular massage may not do the trick since you should/shouldn’t press on some areas while pregnant).
A restaurant coupon may be a good idea, if she has someone she can go with and if you know what she likes. I was often tired and didn’t feel like cooking, but wanted to eat healthy rather than a frozen meal. Of course avoid sushi places etc.
Maybe a funny book? I got a friend this one when she got pregnant and she said it was funny: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1556527721/ref=oss_product
But I like the massage idea best! Some pampering can go a long way. :)
She may need someone to come and clean her house if she doesn’t have a maid. It is impossible to scrub the way you want to when you are pregnant, and face it, even the best husbands don’t always know what a can of ajax looks like! A Merry Maids gift certificate might be nice.
I need your help for an exciting but stressful experience.
I am fairly new at my job (less than 2 years) and I have openly expressed my ambition to manage a big project at work. Two months later, I had my big project with an impressive steering committee and I am working hard on it.
Somehow my company leadership thought we (meaning the company, but at the end of the day just ME) should communicate in the media.
The PR company proposed I hold press conferences and radio shows and (gasp) maybe TV interventions.
Now, I am by no means a shy person, but I have no idea how to handle such a situation.
Well, I guess for the talking part, I gained enough mastery of my project (for working on it non stop) that I could discuss it easily. Eventually with time; my interventions would get better and better.
The part I am worried about is my appearance on national TV.
Now, the regular corporettes know I always complain about looking young and wanting to look more elegant.
Any tips on the dreaded TV appearance? What to wear, how to carry myself, things to avoid?
My company brings in pros to prepare people who may represent the company in the press (this is actually required training for all firm directors) with all sorts of tips and skills and general public speaking instruction. You should look into whether your company could bring in such a consultant. (I’ve never been on tv myself so no tips there!) Congrats, by the way. Sounds like you’re becoming a key person at your company!
Mine does this, too. Even just to prep new board members to better represent at our annual convention (I work at an association with roughly 35,000 members; conference draws about 5,000
Sounds exciting! Congrats!
How many times have you watched yourself present/listened to yourself speak? If you haven’t done this, I would suggest you do it in whatever form you’ll be presenting. It can be pretty painful to watch yourself, but it’s a good way to see what you actually look like and/or notice any nervous on-camera habits that you have. Once you’ve seen them, you can adjust accordingly.
Obviously, this is a moot point if you can have the pros come in and prepare you. If that’s not an option, though, definitely find some way to watch yourself prior to going on TV. Best of luck!
Don’t get hung up on clothes and makeup. Remember what Mom always said: Dress neatly, look clean and presentable, sit up straight, and don’t fidget.
Much more important is your message. On TV or radio, TIME is money. Be ready with soundbites because you will not get a lot of time. If you’re interviewed on tape, your statements will be edited. Avoid pronouns – that is, call your product by its name, not “it.” Use complete sentences even if it means repeating part of the question. If you’re interviewed live, answer the question but also get your message across. Practice, practice, practice your message.
Agree that a coach can be very helpful, but you can help yourself by watching the kind of show you might be on and studying what hosts and guests do. What works, and what doesn’t work? Congrats & good luck!
Thank you so much for the tips. I just love to feel like I belong to this community.
Unfortunately, I will not have any coaching on media appearance, this is why I would like to nail it.
Well, I used to host a radio show and a TV show in college, but that was managed by students and mainly for a students’ audience.
I recall I tend to have a squeaky/childish voice so I would definitely have to work on that to have a deeper voice.
Thank you for the tips about full sentences and timing. I will practice a lot.
I’d probably have the first set of interviews within the couple coming weeks so I’ll make sure to let you know how it went.
You’ve gotten awesome advice so far but I would recommend the following (superficial advice) in terms of styling:
1) wear an outfit you feel super confident in (buy a new outfit if necessary!) If you aren’t sure what is flattering for you, try out a personal shopper or study what women with your body type look great wearing. Consider purchasing Spanx or other shapewear to ensure no wardrobe malfunctions.
2) avoid white clothing or certain patterns (houndstooth, stripes, etc.) which can look distorted on camera. Black can certainly be slimming but it can also be stark and/or boring. I suggest choosing a color that lights your complexion up and complements your hair/eyes (for me it is the blue/green/purple family – for you it might be red or nudes or whatever) If you know who will be interviewing you on tv, you may want to contact their people to see if they have any wardrobe guidelines to prevent clashing with their anchor, background, etc.
3) get your eyebrows, hair and nails professionally done beforehand (unless you can achieve a pro result on your own)
4) make sure you wear camera appropriate cosmetics (Smashbox is a line devoted to this concept, but there are plenty of other products out there, my favorite brand is Giorgio Armani)
Good luck!
I would practice your sound bites trying to use a lower register of your voice (I also have a high voice, but it’s possible to make it sound lower for a brief period of time, if I’m focused on it). Also try to remember to pause at key points, take deep breaths to stay calm, and make your expressions fit your message. The short amount of time you’re given may make you tempted to rush, but you will come across as more polished and have more impact if you say a few things more slowly and with emphasis, than if you say a bunch of stuff quickly and it’s all mushed together. Time yourself as you practice, so that you know how much you can say in the window you’re given.
Remember that when you actually appear, the adrenaline rush will make it feel to you like time is passing more slowly. So when you pause for what seems to you like ages, it will actually be totally normal to (and helpful for) your audience.
So exciting, houda! You are going to be our own Corporette star! If you get a chance later, please link to any coverage; I’d love to see a fellow Corporetter on the national stage.
The classic piece of advice on dressing for TV appearances is “no vertical stripes.” The way TV is transmitted tends to make stripes appear blur in an unattractive way. Even a pinstripe suit or blouse can be a bad choice.
Task yourself with watching the news every night for a week, with an eye specifically on how the anchors look. What jumps out at you? (Jewelry, clothes colors, hair styles?) If you can sit behind a desk, that is much better than being interviewed while sitting with your legs crossed on a high stool! But if you have to be in an exposed chair, consider wearing a pant suit, then you don’t have to worry as much about how you hold your legs.
This seems so shallow and superficial, but it does matter. I watched the holiday message video put out by the White House, featuring President and Mrs. Obama. The words were all about peace and hope, but Michelle’s hairstyle put her bangs into her eyes and it was so distracting. I literally spent 5 minutes watching one piece of hair poke into her eye, itching to reach out and push it away! ARGH!
Oh, and here are a couple of articles I thought had good advice:
http://www.cabq.gov/govtv/lookgood.html
http://www.public-speaking.org/public-speaking-tvvideo-article.htm
I had media training for a previous job and one REALLY helpful thing they told me is this: pause. If you’re asked a question, pause before you answer – it’ll barely be noticeable, and your answer will sound much more confident if you’ve collected your thoughts. If you lose your train of thought; if you get flustered – pause. It’s way better to take a moment then to stumble over your words. The former will barely be noticed; the latter will leave a negative impression.
Good luck!
Hi all, busy today and didn’t read Corporette much (gasp)! I saw the post on the Victoria’s Secret velveteen jacket, and @Legally Brunette’s question on how my VS order turned out. I ordered about 4 sweater dresses. Liked them all. Quality was better than I expected, even considering that many of them were acrylic blends. Stylish and professional. Not too hootchie, all though some dresses highlighted my curves more than others. My 11-year old is always my litmus test. I wore a Boden sweaterdress that I thought was very cute, zero compliments. Wore VS sweaterdress, got: “Oooh, Mommy, you look pretty!” Hubby concurred! ;-)
Oh VS quality after washing – Haven’t gotten there yet. I will say that the give/stretch in the fabric is pretty high (By contrast, Boden is merino wool and very fine-gauge and will hold its shape well). I surmise that the dresses might look all wrung out and misshapen with hand-washing. I’ll probably take them to the cleaners.
I have ordered two sweaterdresses from VS about a year ago. They’re still in good shape after repeated washings.
The cardigans from VS? Holes and pills. Lesson? Don’t purchase cardigans from VS.
I have been buying clothes from VS for years, and I’ve noticed that the quality can be hit or miss. I will generally never make purchases from VS that are not on sale; it’s just not worth it.
I do sometimes purchase things that are not on sale, but I definitely agree with you on the hit-or-miss quality. I have some pieces that are great and some that fell apart quickly. It’s frustrating because I’ll buy say, two different cardigans and one cardigan will be amazing while another will be horrible. You’d think I would just stop buying form there, but I really do have some pieces that I love!
Can anyone tell me how Thomas Pink button front shirt sizes compare to Talbots, Ann Taylor, or Brooks Brothers?
I’m petite and busty, and have yet to find the perfect shirt, but feel certain it’s out there somewhere.
I find Thomas Pink to run smaller and more form-fitting than Ann Taylor or Brooks Brothers. I don’t really consider myself that busty (B-cup), but I have 2 Pink shirts that always gap at the bust. I think it’s the European tailoring…
Not necessarily – Thomas Pink has lots of different cuts. I only buy the semi-relaxed, which does up on very curvy me when other shirts don’t (including Brooks Brothers, which in my previous UK location was just down the road).
Have a look at the website to get more information about the Pink cuts – a couple of them are really form fitting, and others are not.
Haha, I’m the opposite. I have two Pink shirts in different cuts, one is obviously more fitted than the other, and both gap at the bust. However, my BBros shirts fit perfectly, no gaping anywhere, regardless of the cut. Yay differences! :-)
I don’t have any shirts from the comparison stores you mentioned, but I have big boobs and my Thomas Pink shirts, amazingly, don’t gap at the bust. I ordered in my regular size, not up or anything, and they’re fine in the chest and not too big in the waist. I think the ones I have are the ‘tailored’ fit.
That being said, I’m tall (5’11”) and long-torsoed, so it could be that the length may be a bit much.
I’m 5’3″ and busty. Between Thomas Pink and Ann Taylor, I have better luck w/ Ann Taylor. Talbots has also worked for me, especially when I’ve had waist darts added by a tailor. I’ve posted pics of my Thomas Pink experiences in my 3/28/09 and and 11/18/o9 blog posts.
And I want to buy a wedding dress :) I haven’t started looking yet but I really hope there’s a decent aftermarket – I don’t like the idea of paying full price for a new one.
Hm, I see how that ended up here – my reply to earlier thread got auto-pasted into the bottom “reply” box when my first attempt generated an error (“posting too quickly”). I’ll know next time.
I need some fashion advice! My cousin is getting married next month in NYC, and I am having the hardest time finding something for the rehearsal dinner. It will be cold, so I need something that will pair well with a wrap or other cover-up. The wedding itself is going to be pretty formal, so I’m assuming that the rehearsal dinner will also be relatively formal. I’m wearing a full length strapless blue dress to the wedding itself, so I’m hoping to find something shorter, not blue, and not strapless for the rehearsal dinner to mix it up! But a problem I keep running into is what is appropriate for a rehearsal dinner. I’m 23 and after a year of working out a lot am in very good shape – I’d like to get to show that off, especially since a lot of people I haven’t seen in a long time will be there! But I want a flattering dress that is not obnoxious – a family member’s rehearsal dinner is obviously not the right time to rock a skin tight mini! Any advice? Any designers that I might look at? Thanks for any ideas!
Price range? I like DKNY, Theory and Helmut Lang for being trendy/flattering without being too skimpy.
I’d do some more research on the rehearsal dinner- I’ve been to multiple weddings where the rehearsal dinner is a fairly casual affair and the wedding itself is on the more formal side. I think I’d try to refrain from going too over the top for the rehearsal dinner regardless.
Second this. The last wedding I attended was a black tie affair and the rehearsal dinner was a smart casual, outdoor (catered) bbq. Rehearsal dinners and weddings are often vastly different in formality.
A few specific suggestions:
http://shop.nordstrom.com/s/donna-morgan-ruched-metallic-jacquard-sheath-dress/3123717
http://shop.nordstrom.com/s/maggy-london-one-shoulder-jacquard-stretch-satin-dress/3127547
http://shop.nordstrom.com/s/adrianna-papell-illusion-bodice-pleated-dress/3029142
Great suggestions!
I have a related question. I am going to a rehearsal dinner soon too, and recently got an Herve Leger dress (on super-super-sale!). I would love to get to wear it to the dinner cuz it’s gorgeous and I’ve been waiting forever to get it… But is a bandage dress too trashy to wear to a rehearsal dinner? The dress fits me fine… but I don’t usually wear anything so form-fitting. It’s a deep purple and the neckline is pretty low-cut, but I’m a small B so it isn’t as scandalous as it otherwise might be. It’s about knee length. Here’s the link: http://www.polyvore.com/deep_zipped-up_bandage_dress/thing?id=19198718.
I can’t decide if the dress is better saved for a date with my hubby or a party with friends. I guess my question ultimately boils down to this: do you girls think HL dresses are stylish for this kind of occasion… or too attention-grabbing to wear to someone else’s wedding rehearsal dinner? Thanks for any feedback!
Tough call! The dress is tres sexy. Can you send a quick pic to the bride (if the bride is your friend) and ask what she thinks?
I don’t think it’s appropriate. It’s gorgeous and I’m sure you look great in it, but the rehearsal dinner isn’t the time to wear something so flashy and eye catching – it’s the couple’s special weekend. They should be the center of attention right now, not the stunner in the gorgeous dress. You are the bride’s friend, so don’t show her up.
Remember also that the rehearsal dinner typically involves a lot of multigenerational family – the bride and groom’s mothers, aunts, and grandmothers will likely be in attendance. That’s not the sort of dress I’d wear around MY grandmother.
I’d also nix asking the bride. If the rehearsal dinner is “soon,” then so is the wedding. There’s a ton of last minute stuff she’s doing to finish preparations for the wedding and she’s probably pretty stressed out. Don’t add another thing for her to deal with.
Instead, try the dress on for the hubby and let him see how great you look in it. Then say you’d be delighted to wear it for him if you have somewhere appropriate to wear it – like a night on the town! I bet he’ll get something planned in short order :).
That dress is not appropriate for a rehearsal dinner. It’s strictly a bar/club/big night out dress. Sorry.
Hmmmm… I disagree. I think the dress is fine as long as you don’t get a too tight size. If it were shorter, I think it would be a different story, though.
I think it’s completely appropriate. It’s a dinner, not a brunch. You say it’s knee length and not so scandalously low cut. Just keep everything else very subtle (jewelry, heels, hair, and makeup) and toss a sharp, dressy black blazer over it. Unless the rehearsal dinner is in Amish country, you’ll definitely look appropriate (and great, btw!).
Has anyone dealt with issues of physical pain/discomfort during intimacy? My husband and I have been married for several years and love each other very much. We are not intimate at all, however (nothing beyond kissing, hugging, etc.). The issue is all mine, I simply feel a lot of pain during intimacy and he hates to see me in pain, so he no longer initiates anything.
I have been to every possible gyno, sex therapist, psychologist, doctor, etc. I have been told that nothing physically is wrong with me. I had one previous partner before I was married, and we had an active and pain-free sex life. That relationship was fraught with many problems, however (largely surrounding the fact that I lost my virginity to him and felt very guilty about it).
As you can imagine, this is putting a strain on my marriage. I’m wondering if anyone has any recommendations on physical exercises or other tips for mitigating the pain. I would greatly appreciate any advice.
What sort of pain is it, if you can be more specific? I assume this isn’t something that can be solved with generous use of lube?
Yes, I have. I am still dealing with it. I am not intimate at all with my SO either this past year-plus, and it’s very frustrating/painful/scary/upsetting for both of us. I don’t have answers but I feel compelled to respond to say you are not alone because I feel so very alone and sad in this problem, too. Two nights ago I heard my neighbors (quietly) having relations through a wall and it caused me to cry myself to sleep.
The issue is not all yours. It is a problem for/with both of you. I will admit that my problem is mostly mine, but there are things my SO is doing/not doing that are not helping – probably yours too. My SO is very generous in intimacy, but that’s not the solution. There’s a switch in my head that just won’t freaking flip and I don’t know how to make it flip.
There are books that can help you understand what’s going on – Good Vibrations has quality information. The Society for Sex Therapy and Research also puts out dense research-oriented books that I found helpful – I felt like the books were speaking at my education level more than some others.
How long were you with your sex therapist? I really liked mine (a member of the sex therapists of america or whatever it is), but ended up stopping sessions because of cost and because I wasn’t making the changes I needed to make to possibly get better. It just feels so hopeless sometimes. I plan to return once my flex spending is built up again. Maybe you were with the wrong one?
You already know it’s not a physical issue, so exercises/tips aren’t going to fix this. At least for me, I associate intimacy with stress/pain/scary/hurt feelings for both of us, so all the physical exercises in the world won’t help. I need to change how I think about intimacy. If yours is like mine, your therapist probably told you kegels, self-time, hot baths, massages, but ultimately, it’s mental and, at least for me, it will require a lot more therapy and money.
I don’t have any advice, but *hugs*. You are not alone in this frustrating and devastating hell.
I feel for you. Please make sure it is not psychosomatic. I dated a guy in law school that all of a sudden did not want to complete sex, even after a lot of foreplay. He said he was experiencing pain when it came time, and I believed it. But I now think that he was really afraid of that higher level of commitment and that would be associated with consummation. This may not be you at all, but it did sound familiar. Incidentally, that guy is now married with 3 kids, so he got over it. Best of luck in beating this one.
Yes. Let me assure you you are not alone in this. I’ve never had a doctor find anything physically wrong with me, either, but I once had a gyno prescribe a lidocaine ointment. That did help some (it’s a local anesthetic, basically), but it was a bit of a mood-killer because it took about 30 minutes to start working, required planning, etc. However, I think it did help take some of the mental pressure off–I wasn’t expecting any pain, and therefore it wasn’t.
This is still an issue for me, and I haven’t really found anything that helps (I haven’t had any previous partners, to know if that would make a difference). Sometimes I notice it doesn’t hurt as much if I’ve been regularly exercising/stretching (I’ve very not-flexible–maybe that has some effect? I also think the exercise improves my sex drive…)
So I’m afraid that’s not really that helpful, but I do want you to know you’re not the only one. It sucks, I know, and sadly I don’t think it’s something doctors really understand very well (Any ob-gyns out there want to take this on as a personal crusade?). I think the best advice is try not to stress yourself out about it, which in my experience just makes it worse, and it’s self-reinforcing cycle. You have my sympathy, support, and hugs.
I have had that problem, which is slowly being resolved. It’s something that you will have to work on with your partner unless it’s a physical problem. For me, it was part physical, mostly mental. The physical part was bacterial vaginosis that was resolved by getting up after sex, peeing, and then showering (I know, laborious, but worth it for sharing intimacy with my hubby).
The mental part took a lot of time. I had a lot of anxiety around sex for some reason, so was I wasn’t lubricating properly and I constantly had my vaginal muscles tense which made the act of sex incredibly uncomfortable and painful. Also I felt this weird “burning” sensation that I can’t explain.
The solution was to take things really slowly. To have intimacy without penetration (and without any possibility of penetration) so that I could get some comfort around that first. It took a long time, but as I slowly started to open up to that form of intimacy, it made it easier to open up to vaginal penetration.
Another good thing for me is to be really really horny. A lot of my issues came from feelings of shame and guilt (go figure, with my husband I have Catholic guilt during sex, but not with one night stands in college). So I had to really think about the things that aroused me, and really get in the mood before sex. This means watching porn, taking a bubble bath, using a vibrator, playing sensual music, lighting candles and/or incense, wearing something sexy and flattering, reading erotica, pretty much pulling out all the stops. It also meant role playing, letting go, allowing myself to be vulnerable and real during lovemaking. It’s an ongoing struggle that rears its ugly head from time to time, but I am happy to say after 3 years of marriage we have sex without paint about 85% of the time or more now. And when it feels painful, he and I are both comfortable with stopping and doing something else that doesn’t require penetration.
What ever you do, don’t let it go, or try to “push through” it, or try to ignore it. And in the meantime (excuse my crassness) but you should give him lots of blowjobs and handjobs. There’s no good substitute for vaginal sex, but you can try your damnedest (and he should return the favor). And if you are well endowed, boob sex is a nice treat as well.
I am sorry if any of this is TMI or if these suggestions won’t work for you, but I thought I’d put this out there.
There are lots of ways to be intimate without having vaginal intercourse. I know that is what most people want to do and there’s a natural desire to do that. However, I speak from personal experience – after I had a c-section, some nerve endings got severed in my abdomen and I can no longer have an orgasm from intercourse – any position, top, bottom, behind, etc. I need pretty direct stimulation in a very specific area or it just doesn’t happen. It was a shock and something my husband and I had to adjust to. There were a few things we did that helped:
– First, I went to the Good Vibrations website and read a lot, and read a lot of product reviews. I bought some toys that were recommended by reviewers having similar problems. I never considered myself to be the “toy type,” but I got a few different kinds of vibrators, lubricant, and some other things. I was mortified at the thought someone would find out but the order was submitted and the order arrived in a plain brown box, as advertised, and there was no issue. Based on the number of reviews on the site, I was far from the only person ordering toys out there in the world :)
– The second thing we did was try some things out. We picked an evening when my son was staying with Grandma so we wouldn’t get interrupted or feel rushed. Lit some candles, drank some wine, etc. You have to be willing to have patience, experiment and have a sense of humor. Not everything will feel good but some things may work. When you find something that works, keep doing it!
– The third thing we did was let go of the idea that “intimacy = intercourse” and started trying to think of it as “intimacy = pleasure exchange.” We still do have intercourse sometimes but more often it’s a combination of things – including oral – and both of us eventually “get there” one way or another. There’s still a lot of connection and making each other happy, which I think is crucial to a good relationship.
I feel for everyone who has problems in this area…it was hard for me at first to branch out into trying some things I never thought I would want to, but it has been worth it. I no longer feel like I am less of a wife to my husband because we can’t be together intimately. I hope everyone finds a solution that will work for them. :)
This is a great reply.
I think Dan Savage (sex advice columnist) would say, if vaginal intercourse is causing you stress- take it off the menu for a while! Try everything else under the sun. There are so many other ways to give/receive pleasure. You can revisit it after you have reconnected sexually with your husband.
Also, not every encounter has to end with an orgasm on either end- the goal is to enjoy yourself and relax. You can leave off in the middle with promises of picking it up again later.
I agree with Anon for this, try some toys. Maybe start with some non-penetrative ones and get used to them during solo play. You need to get to know yourself and what you like first in order to communicate with your partner.
Botox is sometimes used for vaginismus – is that something a doctor has discussed with you?
http://www.centerforfemalesexuality.com/vaginismus-botox.html
While we’re all sharing – I’ve never had an orgasm, think I probably never will, and worry that as the years go by I’ll get less and less interested in sex as a result, harming my relationship.
Wow, I am so glad to hear others having the same problem. Are you sure that the cause is you?
I have issues w/ pain during intercourse w/ my hubs, and he has issues w/, um, sensitivity (to put it bluntly, once we finally get things going, he can’t keep it up). For the longest time I attributed it to inexperience (we were both each other’s firsts) or to physical issues.
However, due in part to these frustrations, I recently began an affair, and the sex is fabulous. No pain, no long buildup to the act, etc. It has put my problems w/ my husband into a new light. I realize now that we have a mental disconnect–both of us–that would be difficult to resolve. I want to end our relationship b/c I want him to discover that he will probably have a much more enjoyable time w/ another woman who he doesn’t have such sexual baggage w/. Sigh.
I had a similar problem. Had a sexual relationship outside of marriage, and it was good, so good, and I was deeply pleased that I was still capable of sexual pleasure. However! At the same time, my husband began to use viagra, and his problem with keeping it going evaporated. And, I was sensible enough to remember strong sexual attraction does not equal love. It equals strong sexual attraction.
My thinking, for what it’s worth, is wait. See if your husband will benefit from viagra/cialis, etc., and wait to see if your sexual attraction to this new fellow has real gravitas.
To steal from a non-related terribly mangled Dan Quayle quote: a marriage is a terrible thing to waste.
Good luck to you however it goes.
Thanks so much for your advice. New guy and I have been friends for years, but the new part of our relationship is only months old.
Hubs has been checked out and nothing is physically wrong, won’t use viagra. I feel like I’m wasting everyone’s time by not just leaving. ugh.
I can’t believe there is more than one commentator having an affair with apparently no remorse. I don’t care what our husband is lacking, that is disgusting, immoral, and pathetic. Get a divorce.
Are you in a plural marriage?
Also, fyi, odds are that about 50% of commenters on this site have cheated.
Because I don’t cheat I’m in a plural marriage? what? and I refuse to believe that 50% of the people on here cheat. How can be people be that self centered?
I had this problem throughout my first marriage. Same situation, no doctor could find anything physically wrong. My first husband and I were intimate, enjoyed each other’s company, laughed a lot, but had some real underlying problems. It took me years to figure out how truly angry and alone I was within that relationship. I now believe the painful sex was a symptom of that.
After my divorce, I have had several sexual partners, including of course my current husband, and never had any pain with any of them. Ever. So, the good news is that it does not have to last forever.
I’m not saying AT ALL that you have a bad relationship. I believe most healthy couples can work through this together and that it doesn’t have to end in divorce! I only mention my personal experience to show that the pain can end. For all I know, first husband was never the real issue, but it was only by going through the hell of my divorce that I came to understand what I really wanted and needed, sexually and emotionally.
you say you and your 1st husband enjoyed each other’s company and all… how did you eventually decide to end it? I am in somewhat of the same boat, but it’s so hard to pull the trigger and end it when we really get along great, and it’s the emotional ‘spark’ and sexual satisfaction that’s missing. I feel shallow for wanting to end an otherwise good marriage over that. I also worrry that I’ll lose a good friend. Are you and your 1st husband still friends? Or is that just weird?
I wish I could say I handled it well, but I didn’t. I waited way too long after starting to feel things weren’t right, got angry, stewed for months, then walked out. I still think he’s a really fun and funny guy, but I did irreparable damage to the relationship to be friends now. We can be cordial face-to-face, though, which happens occasionally. After we both remarried, it got easier.
To be fair, I did 10 months of individual counseling, begged him to go to couples counseling (he went to one session, decided it was stupid, and refused to go again), tried many, many things to “fix” myself. But once I was truly angry, I burned bridges right and left.
I wish I could offer you some advice, but I’m not a great divorce role model :-( All I can offer is my best wishes that you find happiness.
Wow, this is really Heavy Relationship Stuff Weekend on Corporette! In a post above I talked about how my marriage failed in part because of bad sex. Pain during sex was a big part of that.
I have had a number of sexual partners, and for me, it turns out that the size of the man’s equipment is a big factor. My husband was a bit over average, so when I was incredibly relaxed, horny and happy, it might not hurt, but the usual “it’s the weekend, time to have sex for the sake of the relationship even though I’m not in the mood” sex (and let’s face it – we all have that kind of sex – hopefully we get in the mood after we start, but not to the same extent as if we’d been raring to go already, I find) always hurt.
Thanks to Murphy’s Law, I seem to attract well-endowed men. There are some who just had to live with not putting it all the way inside me, ever.
I definitely agree that letting go of the idea that “intercourse” has to be the goal is important. I found that I was so nervous about whether it was going to hurt, that it was hard to relax and I was afraid to initiate anything. That meant I felt less close to hubby, which made it less appealing to have sex. Also, I would reject *him* more often, so he stopped initiating, which made me feel undesired, which made me less interested in sex. If I hadn’t been worried about pain, I would have been more likely to go with it when he initiated something, even if I wasn’t totally in the mood.
In my current relationship I put this out there up front, and said we weren’t going to have sex every time, and he said he was OK with that. We mess around, and I invite penetration only if I really want it. Otherwise, it’s hand jobs, oral sex, and/or “outercourse.” The kinds of outercourse can include boob sex, doing it “doggie style” with his penis between my thighs, having him rub it against the outside of my genitals (or me sitting astride him and rubbing my genitals against his – it’s like the kind of humping people did in high school, but without clothes), or holding my hands in a circle over my pubic area while he moves in and out (like a hand job, but him doing the work and moving back and forth as if for intercourse). I particularly like these last two because they feel intimate in the same way sex does – we can look into each others eyes, grab onto each other, etc.
I haven’t been with this guy long enough to know whether the lack of normal, pain-free sex will ultimately cause us to break up, but I’m having a lot more fun than I had thought I could have with someone his size. It can be nice, in a way, to be forced to mix things up and be creative. If the guy has the right attitude, it *shouldn’t* be impossible to have a good sexual relationship with someone even if you have very little penetration.
If it hurts, I don’t recommend that you just grin and bear it. That’s what I did in my marriage, and as a result I totally lost interest in sex. (We both thought I had a low sex drive. It magically came back once the relationship ended.) Also, if you have trouble relaxing your vaginal muscles, enduring painful penetration will make you more inclined to tense up the next time. If you like the feeling of penetration, buy some smaller vibrators and have him use them on you. You can try gradually increasing over time and possibly get to a point where you can comfortably have sex (this hasn’t worked for me, though).
It is incredibly frustrating to me how little help doctors have been with this. I never tried a sex therapist, but I’ve talked to numerous doctors and gynecologists, and none of them had anything helpful to recommend. (“Relax” and “make sure he gives you plenty of foreplay” were not revelations for me.) I did recently read a book that actually acknowledged the existence of the issue, which was nice. Some parts of it were a little hokey, but I thought it was a decent read, and it does have a few tips about how to deal with a partner who is too large for you, as well as a whole section on how to say no to sex (or to particular parts of sex) without making your partner feel rejected, which I think is important when you have sex issues. It’s called ” Because It Feels Good: A Woman’s Guide to Sexual Pleasure and Satisfaction.”
Also, you are definitely not alone. There was recently a big sex study released (the biggest one since the Kinsey studies done decades ago, I think) and ten percent of women reported having had painful sex during the past year. Here’s hoping that it will prompt someone to start doing some research on the issue.
Extremely anon, I don’t have much to add to these answers, but I would recommend re-going to the gyno if you haven’t done multiple appointments. The only time I experienced painful intercourse, it turned out I had a cyst, but it wasn’t developed enough during my first appointment and it got missed. A (painful) month later, I went back, and it was taken care of. I’m not diagnosing you, it sounds unlikely based on what you’ve said that you’ve got the same thing, but I just mean to suggest that being aggressive in following-up with the same doctors could be in order.
This is on a somewhat related topic. Does anyone have experience overcoming the sexual side effects of antidepressants? I have been on the medication for a short while—but long enough to know that it is helping me mentally and also causing side effects. Sorry for TMI, but we’re talking no orgasms. Is changing medications needed? I’d rather not, because otherwise I think it’s a good one for me. I was hoping someone might have an encouraging story that the effects will lessen over time. Wishful thinking? Obviously will also consult my doctor, but I am looking for some voices of actual experience.
I do. Wellbutrin is known for having fewer sexual side effects. It is a different type of antidepressant than the first one they put me on (Celexa), though I’m not sure what makes it different. Of course, because of its differences, it also is less or more effective for some people than the other type of antidepressants. However, while Wellbutrin did not interfere with my ability to get there, it pretty much decimated my interest in sexual activity. Six of one, half dozen of the other?
As far as I could tell from doing some research and talking to my doctor, sexual side effects are extremely common with antidepressants, and is one of the main reasons that even those with serious mental illness (bipolar, for example) stop taking them. That suggests to me that their unwanted side effects do not lessen over time, as those people are supposed to be on them basically their entire lives.
Focus on getting better, but certainly talk to your doctor about switching options. Hang in there.
You said “every possible gyno,” but have you seen a pelvic pain specialist? There are doctors who deal with only this issue, and I have a number of friends who have been really helped by seeing one of them. Depending on what kind of pain it is, there are a lot of possibilities – vaginismus, low estrogen, etc. There are so many women who are living with this issue, and it isn’t something you just have to live with.
There’s a community on livejournal where a lot of folks have struggled with this issue, and I know you could get great help – http://www.livejournal.com/vaginapagina. It’s a heavily moderated, safe space community. I would try posting your question there, with as much detail as possible.
So sorry to hear about your problem. I have problems w/ pain during intercourse, too, and just wanted to second a few of the recommendations I’ve already seen here. Someone below commented about a book by Dr. Elizabeth Stewart — I haven’t read it but worked with some people in her office and a great physical therapist they recommended who focused on these issues. If you are anywhere near Boston, I highly recommend them. I doubt everyone else has just been missing something but who knows. Also, you can buy a set of “dilators” online and practice inserting them and moving them around on your own, going up in size gradually. Your doctor may also prescribe one of a number of things for the pain — like someone said, lidocaine can work by numbing the area; also, a doctor might prescribe pills that will generally reduce pain. Lastly, just wanted to second the “outercourse” recommendations.
You are definitely not alone — good luck and *hug*.
Posted in the wrong post! Can anyone advise me on Talbots petite sizing? I wear 0p and xsp in Ann Taylor… is Talbots PP equivalent? I only have one item from there and it’s a cardigan with a lot of stretch, so it’s a little hard to gauge. Thanks!
Yes, Extremely anon – this is extremely common. Can’t remember the name of it but there is a name. Most gynecologists don’t know what it is, but there are plenty who do. Serach the Internet and you will find some information.
I am a 3L with a 1 year clerkship, but no big firm job after the clerkship. Last semester, I took a class taught by local attorneys. The “final” was a hearing, before a real judge, based on the “case” we worked throughout the semester. After the hearing, both attorneys pulled me aside and asked when can I start interviewing for post-clerkship jobs. (They know my judge very well, know the judges I worked for last year, have heard of my work for them.) I said anytime, I just have to tell my clerkship judge (conflicts, etc.) One of the attorneys is a partner at my dream firm in my dream group (I’ve met most of the attorneys in the group, love them all, the firm did not lay off anyone in the slump, they get great cases…) At a networking event in December, another partner at the firm and an associate made it a point to chat with me several times during the evening.
Now what do I do? A career clerk friend of mine said I had better get that interview now since it’s a small group (14 attorneys) and they’ve already hired for their 2012 class. She’s the only one I’ve told that I’m targeting this firm. How do I get an interview? I gave the partner who taught my class my resume and a letter of interest in November. Should I ask through the grapevine on how to get an interview or go directly to one of the attorneys I know? Which one? Associate, new partner or senior partner?
I am not sure I understand the progression of events. Did you actually apply for the job in November by submitting materials to the attorney? If so, you probably should follow up with the person to whom you gave your materials, rather than contacting another member of the firm.
I’d go directly to whichever of the 3 attorneys you are most comfortable with. Express your continuing interest in the firm and ask them how you can get an interview.
Can any lawyer Corporettes recommend a trial bag? My firm has a few in rotation that we’re welcome to use (I’m talking the traditional leather or hard nylon square rectangle with the two flaps on top, the locks/latches, and the long telescoping handle). But I’m sick of having to chase them down in other people’s offices and empty out their random paper clips and stray business cards before loading up for my travels.
I have a two week trial coming up, so thought I would look into buying my own beforehand.
Um, “square rectangle” doesn’t make sense. But you know what I mean. ;)
Should add — I know really nice versions of these can be pricey. I doubt the firm will reimburse me for this, so inexpensive is better. I’d rather save my money for a truly fabulous purse or work bag that I would use far more frequently.
There’s a good selection on ebags for about $70. I’d recommend getting the biggest bag you can. They’re having a 20% off and free shipping sale now.
Technically, “square rectangle” is a real thing, since all squares are rectangles. So don’t feel too bad! :)
I used our office’s trial bags when I was first starting, but I could barely lift the thing if I really filled it with files, etc. So then I went through a series of lit bags on wheels, and destroyed about one a year because I was too hard on them, I guess. Now I just use a bankers box and a set of luggage wheels. I carry my normal work bag with super-critical papers, and the rest goes in the box. I’m no longer going to waste my money on these bags.
Hi all, I have a diplomacy-at-work question and could use some advice.
My current work is way below my experience, skills, and education level. When they were recruiting me for this position, they upgraded the title and raised the salary, and also assured me that they were developing the position’s role so that it would be an appropriate fit for my level. However, it has been almost a year, and despite my having done everything that I can (realistically) do to get more responsibility and make more of a contribution, most of my work is administrative/clerical. I was specifically assured that this would not happen. I have tried at times to delegate these assignments, but for various reasons that doesn’t really work. My boss gave me a glowing evaluation at the end of the year, and keeps saying how helpful my special skills and knowledge are, but yet day after day I’m doing filing, etc.–with two advanced degrees and several years of very relevant, substantive experience in this field.
The situation has caused me crying fits, hurt my marriage, and makes me carry around anger all the time, and I’m concerned about sinking into serious depression. I want to be clear that I have all the respect in the world for administrators and secretaries, etc.–it’s just that I am trained to do something else, and love it, and I feel I am wasting away in this role. Oh and by the way, many of the colleagues at work who should be my professional peers have made many disparaging comments and want nothing to do with me. Snubs at office parties, lunch invitations blown off, openly ridiculing my job, etc. Again, I’ve tried, but my efforts went nowhere.
The bottom line is that the structural and political factors of my office are not going to allow me to make this position challenging or enjoyable at all, and the pay is definitely not good enough to make up for that. So I have decided to leave at the year-mark, which is coming up soon.
2 questions:
1) Day to day, until I do leave, any tips on managing the frustration and insult I feel at having been sold a bill of goods, and being patronized? It is very difficult for me to hide my feelings, sometimes, but I know it’s not going to help if everyone can tell how upset I am.
2) When I tell them I am leaving, I may not yet know what I am doing next. How can I explain my reasons for leaving without burning any bridges? What do I say if they continue to assure me that the position will develop into something more substantive?
Thanks.
Tina:
Get out, now. This is a job. You are qualified for a career. Your boss is happy because he has an overqualified staffer in an admin role. This happened to me. I stayed in the role, and tried to change the role, for seven years. I, like you, tried to talk to my boss. He did not give a damn. He wanted to keep me doing three jobs for a miserly salary. He did not want to have to train someone new to do three jobs. He did not want to lose someone who could handle the pressure with grace. I realized, too, I would never be looked upon as a leader – even though I was managing 30 account managers across seven business lines. I know the economy is downturned, but get out! I landed a consultant role making double my previous salary – and I have the title I wanted, too.
Answer 1. The patronizing will not end. Deal with it the best way you can. You are smart, successful, and beautiful. Know that these people do not add any value to your life. They are zeroes. Your husband and family are tens. See my point?
Answer 2. Tell your boss that you enjoyed working with the company, but you have plateaued and want to find a role in alignment with your education/unique skill set.
Talk is cheap. You gave them a chance to “show and prove”. The time to move on has come. Again, good luck!
Thanks so much for the encouragement!
Hm…It’s clear that you are in a difficult situation that is causing you emotional stress. If ultimately, the job is untenable for you, it sounds like leaving is the right thing. As I read your post, I think of all the other people in this country that are currently under or unemployed, and wonder if you have a realistic expectation of the current job market. A few questions I would think seriously about before quitting
1) Are there jobs available for your skillset in the community? Or is the job market so tight that you will be underemployed even if you move?
2) Has any progress been made in matching the job to your skills? As I read your post, it seems as though this is a new position in the organization. Are they making some progress, or are continuing to do the exact same job as when you started?
I have to be honest with you. As I read your post, there was a level of entitlement there that made me uncomfortable. I wonder if that is coming off to the people you work with, and negatively impacting your work relationships. Perhaps this organization is toxic — we all know places that are. But perhaps it’s more complicated than that.
If you need to leave for your own mental health, then do it. Just be clear that the better job may not be out there, what you find may be worse, and that if you let this job continue to grow, it may turn in to something more.
Thank you EC, I share a lot of the concerns you mention here. I know that “entitlement” is wrong–but you’re right, I do feel entitled. I feel entitled to a job that remotely matches my qualifications, and to co-workers and supervisors who make me feel welcome and appreciated. I realize this is dangerous right now, that many people are similarly frustrated, and that I may end up in a precarious situation after leaving. But I have decided I am so desperately unhappy here that is isn’t safe to stay. It is going to be a leap of faith, but I just don’t see a realistic option to remain in my position. To answer your question: no–there has been no progress at all, and no sign of change in the future either. If anything, in fact, it’s just become more and more entrenched over time that I’m the person who does admin/support stuff. Believe me, I truly tried to see a way that this is not a dead end for me, but it is. Again, thank you for your candor.
PS. I also agree with the concern you raised about my work relationships, but I guess I feel it isn’t totally my fault. I either cheerfully go about my role as a gopher, thus maintaining “good” work relationships by selling myself way short, or I try to make some representation as to what I have to offer, and I alienate people. I don’t feel either is a good option, and I also admit that my level of unhappiness is difficult to control in terms of the “vibe” I am giving off. I do everything that is asked of me, and I do it well. But I am not able to smile all the time, or act like I am pleased to get these assignments. It’s just too sad a situation for me to fake it.
Tina,
I was stuck in a similar situation, and it was horrible – I was sure the job was going to turn out to be a lot more than it was, but I was wrong. I was mad all the time and worried that my skills were deteriorating and that I was going to be pegged forever as a low-level employee who ordered office supplies. alphabetized things, and almost never used my law degree. Drove me insane. I don’t have any good advice about coping while you’re there, except to take advantage of this time when you just have a “job” rather than a “career,” and you don’t have to devote any of your off-work time, (or any more energy than absolutely necessary to get your daily tasks done, for that matter), and enjoy having more time for leisure, pursuing outside interests, etc.
But I agree completely with everyone who says GET OUT. I know the economy is rough, and that’s why I stayed as long as I did, but now I’m in a great job that’s a great fit, and I couldn’t be happier – and, lo and behold, my skills and legal training didn’t disappear; they’re still there and still just as good as ever.
When you interview at new jobs you can always blame this bad job on the terrible economy – tell them your choice to keep this job would have been different if the economy had been better and there had been more choices out there. I made this statement in my interview at my current firm, and the partners seemed impressed and understanding. A lot of my friends from law school have been unemployed over the last few years, but I always had a job, even if it was at a lower level and pretty deeply unsatisfying. There’s something to be said for that.
I wish you the best of luck in finding a great job where you’ll be challenged and valued for your higher-level contributions. I guess my point in writing this response is to let you know there’s somebody out there who was in the same boat and came out the other side and is much, much happier. I hope it works out the same for you – and soon!
Thanks so much, conbrio. I will say that one good thing is that I won’t have to do as much explaining in interviews, since my title makes it sound like this is a totally different job than it actually is. but what you say is very helpful, and congratulations on your own story.
Just wanted to say I’ve been where you are, at least in a similar situation, and ended up staying 4 years. By the time I left, I had so much repressed anger, I didn’t really handle it very well, and did end up burning bridges, which bothers me a lot. I believe I said something like, I didn’t get my CPA and spend 3 years in law school to be a glorified bookkeeper (I was working for a government agency, and had been promised the position, which was new, would be something like a legislative liason, working on new legislation with state representatives, with a small amount of time spent devloping annual budgets for the agency – 4 years later, I was doing basic accounting tasks, as well as filling out tons of budgeting forms, which anyone could have done, and the legislative liason position never materialized). If I were you, I’d leave now, while you can still do it graciously. You’re career is basically on hold right now, you’re not advancing, and the experience may not be very helpful when applying for future jobs. That said, I had a job offer when I left (back in private practice in a law firm), I don’t know what kind of prospects you have in your area, and you have to think about whether you can afford a long period of unemployment. What are your chances of finding a better job soon? Can you do contract work or consulting (right after I had my son, I took some time off and did legal research on a contract basis for various firms)? Do you have friends in your field who are in a position to give you business? Could you stay on at your present position for now, while you look for something better? No one can answer all those questions but you. Good luck, and I hope things work out for you.
Aack! Your career, not You’re career. I hate making that mistake!
Thanks.
I’m in a similar position (although with the key differences that most of my coworkers are sympathetic and that the work I get to do between the filing and answering phones is challenging) and I don’t think you come off as entitled. I think employers who lie during the hiring process are just as bad as employees who do, and no one would call you entitled if you were ranting about an employee who lied about their abilities.
To deal with frustration, I usually focus on what I’m getting out of the job. Even though what you’re getting isn’t enough to offset the suckiness, there must have been some reason you took it in the first place (the pay, the title, the fact that it’s a bad economy and yet you have a job). If that’s not enough, you can always remind yourself “none of these assholes know it, but I’m getting out of here. This doesn’t matter because it’s just temporary”.
Another employee of ours just left after less than a year, and I suspect his reasons were similar. He explained it by saying he was leaving for something that would “better fit his planned career trajectory”. I thought that was a decent excuse.
All good points, thanks so much.
Over the Christmas holidays I went to Nordstrom and bought this top – http://shop.nordstrom.com/s/classiques-entier-ruffled-chiffon-top/3125856?origin=keywordsearch&resultback=0 – I love it and it looks wonderful with my grey suit. Unfortunately, I have worn it once (haven’t even washed/dry cleaned it yet!) and the ruffles have already detached themselves in a couple of places. Is this something that Nordstrom would fix, or should I take it to my tailor? (I don’t think I could get them to replace it because I bought it with a gift card at a Nordstrom in another state, and didn’t keep the receipt.)
Nordstrom has an amazing return policy. Tell them what happened. I am sure that they will take it back, no questions asked.
I have several Classiques tops like the one you have and have never had any issues withe the quality, so I’m sorry this happened. Not sure if a Nordstrom tailor could fix it but if they could, they would repair it for free.
They will absolutely take that back! Classiques Entier is their store brand.
Thanks for the advice! Maybe I’ll take it up there on Monday.
Pretty blouse! I have a similar one that is long sleeved, and love it. I’ve never been the ruffly type, but something about a ruffle over a muted pattern just seems really fresh, yet sophisticated, right now. Maybe because the pattern “hides” the ruffle and makes it less obvious?
Hope you can work it out with Nordstrom.
Louise, that’s interesting – never thought about it before but I totally agree! I am so not a ruffle girl – I’ve been dying for that trend to go away, but I loved the colors and pattern in the top so much (and had heard so many CE raves here) that I had to go for it.
I recently bought a Jones New York blouse that fits this description – ruffles over a muted pattern – and I am wearing it a lot more than I thought I would. It does seem a lot “fresher” than just a plain ruffled blouse.
This is for Extremely Anon. That stinks and you have my sympathy. Have you/your doctors considered vulvodynia? It’s an inflammatory pain condition about which many gynos are oblivous to (but shouldn’t be). I saw every kind of doctor- several gynos, an internist, a shrink, an infectious disease specialist (scary wrong road) before I was diagnosed (by Dr. Hamod, an obgyn at Johns Hopkins). The treatment changed my life. Also check out The V Book by Elizabeth Stewart (she’s doctor at Brigham and Women’s in Boston). It’s an amazing resource for all things V-related, including vulvodynia. Don’t give up!
HELP! I need advice on how to deal with a nasty work situation.
After law school, I started working for a partner that practices in a niche area of law – we are the only two at our firm who practice in that area. About three months after I started my job as a junior associate, the head of my department told me they were hiring a senior associate/junior partner for the same niche area. At the time, this seemed logical. However, I’ve now been at the job for a few years; this week, I realized that the firm has ramped up actively recruiting for the position, but they are now recruiting for someone with my exact qualifications.
I didn’t find this out from my boss (who is a nightmare at communicating); I found it out when headhunters started contacting me through social media, not realizing that I already worked for the firm. I am not being included in the interviews or resume review, even though I would presumably be working directly with the new hire. My boss is heading to a conference in this specialty area, and is taking a partner who often works with us instead of taking me. I’m freaked out because I’ve never had enough hours to keep me busy or meeting goal at the job, so I suspect that this person isn’t a “supplement” so much as a replacement.
My last set of evaluations was glowing (back in November) and I won’t have my next set until later this spring. I have no reason to believe the evaluations won’t be good – the clients like me and often send me complimentary e-mails, copying my boss. Because I work so exclusively with just one partner, I’m pretty isolated at my firm and don’t have the ear of anyone who might know more than I do. I am a wreck and desperately need to figure out what’s going on. Any advice for either how to ask someone, or how to calm myself down?
It may just have not occurred to them to consider you for the position. I suggest you sit down with your boss and tell him you would like to be considered as a candidate. Submit your resume to the hiring committee (or however it works at your firm) just like any candidate would do.
Also, just because headhunters are contacting people at your level, doesn’t mean that the firm will actually hire someone at your level. Still, I think you should apply.
Someone correct me if I wrong, but I think the poster’s concern is that they’re filling HER position, not a supplement to her position. Which is not a fun position to be in.
I think approaching the boss and assertively asking is probably the best policy. The firm is either trying to replace you or it isn’t. Confronting them won’t change their mind on that front, and if there is a new position, I’d ask them to at least be involved in the screening process even if they won’t consider you as a candidate.
That’s correct – the position the firm has listed isn’t a promotion, it’s actually the exact position that I currently fill. You are definitely right that I need to talk with the boss (which I’m dreading) – any suggestions for how to get through the conversation in an unemotional way? I’ve been struggling to talk about it with family without crying, and that would be a disaster with my boss.
Been there, done that, have the new job to prove it. I hate to say it, but if it looks like they’re interviewing for someone with your credentials and experience, and you regularly don’t have enough work to do, that’s not a good sign for your long term employment. As I see it, you’ve got a couple of options. First. make sure your resume and brag list are together and do some sniffing to see what other options are out there in your field. Doesn’t mean you’ll move, but it’s good to get a realistic idea of how good your options might be if you choose to.
Once you’re armed with knowledge about how marketable you are, you may want to have a conversation with your supervisor/boss along the lines of “Hi Mr. Supervisor. I noticed that we’re thinking about hiring for X position. As you know, I’ve been doing Y, Z work here and I’d be very interested in taking on more responsibility and playing a bigger role for our clients. Is X position something you/the firm might consider me for?” It’s not an easy conversation to have; but the answer will tell you what you need to know – if the answer is a no or a Hell No, than you know whether you need to put that outside research to work for you (depending on why). If the answer is “Yes, we think you’re fantastic, but we’re really looking for someone more senior”, than you can turn the conversation into something helpful to you (more information) and show what a team player you are: “Great. I’d love to keep building my skills and helping grow our practice. Are there particular areas where I could focus on that would really help our clients and expand our practice?”
Either way, you have more information. Which is much better than waking up at 4am with a pit in your gut of what-if-fever. Hang in there.
Hi ladies- I made a mistake and switched to a shampoo that has a lot of sulfates and it wreaked havoc on my scalp, giving me an itchy breakout and making my scalp feel really itchy. I’ve switched back to a sulfate-free shampoo and am wondering if anyone has any advice about what to do in the interim to tone down the irritation. I have fine hair that tends to be normal to dry.
Take a benadryl before you go to bed to take care of the breakout. There is an anti-itch scalp oil-type treatment they sell in the haircare aisle, but I wouldn’t want to put it on a painful scalp just in case it makes it worse.
Anyone have a recommendation for high-quality candles that have spicy, fruity, earthy, or other non-floral scents? I love Tocca candles but am looking for something different, and anything floral gives me a migraine. I will be using them at work so I need something more professional looking than the candles in jars.
Diptyque!
I have a scentsy plug in in my office – with just one square of the wax. I switch it on, let it melt down and then turn it off – fresh scent and headache free.
I love scentsy! That way you don’t have a flame and can make the scent as strong or as light as you want by the amount of wax you use. Plus, very cute and decorative light warmers. (Can you tell I sell scentsy as a side job?)
Yes Diptyque candles last forever!
Are you allowed to burn candles at work? Or will you just have them displayed, unlit, and smell that that way?
Are you actually burning the candles at work or just keeping them unlit, nearby? There have been so many discussions on this board re: perfume and other scents that may cause negative reactions — from dislike of the smell to headaches — caused by scents in the office that I’d be very cautious about using a candle.
Yankee candles — love them! Wide variety of scents and the smell doesn’t go away with time if they just sit around.
Yeah, but I think that Mille’s request for candles not in jars kind of eliminates Yankee. I tend to steer clear of Yankees because of the “down home” country look of their jars.
Yankee has votives like anyone else that you can put in a nice votive holder. I think you have to have some sort of container unless you want hot wax to get all over everything.
Check out the Lemon Grass brand.
I’ll be burning them. My office is small, and most of us burn candles at some point during the day. My strategy is to keep the office stocked with candles that I am not allergic to by giving them as gifts to the other people who use candles. We live in a rather wet, cold place and sometimes our office smells slightly musty. Our satellite office really smells terrible without candles.
Thanks for all the suggestions– I’ve never tried Diptyque but definitely will. I’m going to try a candle warmer plate- a local judge uses one in her chambers and it smells heavenly without having to actually light a candle.
That’s probably wiser in terms of fire hazard as well. Hate to sound too gloom and doom since I love candles more than anyone, but most fire codes won’t allow. (We’ve had two different building managers threaten fines.)
What a great strategy! :)
I love both Diptyque and Votivo. I believe Jo Malone also has a number of her scents as (pricey) candles.
L’Occitane has very nice, fragrant candles.
Williams-Sonoma also.
Both very elegant looking, esp. L’Occitane. WS has many non-floral scents: chestnut (spicy, earthy); lemon (zesty & fresh, etc.).
You could also try those scented sticks they sell everywhere now — no fire hazard, same effect.
Floral gives me fits as well – I love Woodwick candles. They come in lots of scents and I like the noise the wick makes when it burns.
I find this very selfish. Somoene else at work may hate the scent of candles you give out and feel they cant say anything because you will claim, “oh I’m allergic to other scents.”
Selfish, selfish, selfish!
I tend to agree. I would hate to work in an office environment where everyone burns candles. If everyone burns different scents, I can only imagine (with horror) how badly the competing scents must smell together. And if everyone burns the same scent, I guess you’re SOL if you don’t like it! I feel that spicy and earthy scents tend to be the strongest and the most likely to cause headaches for others, as well. Eek! If the smell is that bad, why doesn’t the office manager provide some sort of unscented Febreeze Air Effects or something that will neutralize the odor without providing a different strong smell?
I find I only like floral scents. I would HATE to work in this office.
I actually think candles in very basic jars are some of the most professional looking ones out there. What about them screams unprofessional to you?
Anyway, that being said, I love Root candles! They do have some jar candles, they also offer votives, tealights, etc.
And one more thing– I found some very good bargains at the Talbots website for plus-sizes. Picked up several casual jackets and professional dresses on final clearance for up to 70% off this weekend. The only problem with final sale is that if they don’t fit I can’t return them, but if you know your Talbots size they are a good deal.
Try the candledelirium and candleluxury websites. Lots of different brands and price points and the scent descriptions should help you narrow down what fragrances you are looking for.
This was in response to mille, above.
Hi Ladies,
I need some interview advice. There is an opening in my company for a position that will involve directing a new unit comprised on individuals from other teams (part of a re-org). I think there’s a lot of potential to built on work I’ve already done, make a difference in the new structure, and develop my own skills. I’ve spoken to my supervisor, and she thinks that I could be very successful in the position and has encouraged me to informally talk to the manager of group under which the new unit falls. The one caveat is that my boss anticipates that there will be a significant management challenge wrangling the new group. And I do not have much formal management experience. (I have been responsible for overseeing the work of people junior to me and my peers but not as part of my official job description. I’ve also done a lot of “managing up” to get projects completed.)
Right now I’m looking at setting up an informal/informational interview, but I suspect that it will be the basis for whether I’m considered at all. Any tips on things that I should emphasize, questions I should ask, or other ways to prepare myself? Also, I just attended a workshop to help people who are taking on new leadership roles, should I bring that up?
Thanks!
I’d think that the workshop would be a good thing to bring up, especially since you don’t have much management experience.
Good luck!
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Does anyone have tips on cleaning and caring for color leather? I have several pairs of colored leather pumps (red, purple, grey, teal) that are beginning to show wear. If they were black or brown, I’d just use shoe polish, but seems like finding an exact color match will be difficult and the wrong shade would ruin the shoes.
Anyone know how to fix this problem? Thanks!
I’d take them to a cobbler to get a shoe shine. They’ll have a lot more options in terms of polish, and I’ve completely revived shoes I was getting ready to toss with a good professional shoe shine. If that’s not for you, you can also just try a clear shoe polish.
Saddle soap/leather cleaner and conditioner
You can get shoe polish that will match your shoes almost exactly. I think you will find thisleather cream at a shoe repair shop. When in doubt, go slightly darker.
Where can I get reliable information about STD’s? I am losing sleep over something very stupid I did, and need to know specifics about timing and symptoms.
Planned Parenthood’s website is your best bet. Mayo Clinic’s health information section or Web MD should also have what you need.
However, if you have health insurance, consider calling your doctor, too. There’s nothing you can say that your doctor hasn’t heard before, so don’t be too embarrassed to get the help you may need.
Good luck.
When in doubt, see a doctor and get tested. If you can’t get in with your regular dr, go to a planned parenthood clinic and get tested or go to any OB/GYN that you can get in with.
Please, please, please don’t rely on a self diagnoses based on information you read online. Something that can be easily treated by antibiotics when first caught (chlamydia/gonorrhea) can lead to something very serious (pelvic infection, which can cause scarring leading to future infertility) if left untreated over time. And, to make things even more complicated, while these infections have initial symptoms, they tend to go away leading those who catch them to think the problem is gone.
If you are worried, go see your doctor and get tested! And ASK to be tested, because a lot of doctors don’t offer it up for fear of “offending” their patients. It will put your mind at ease knowing you are OK verses guessing based off a self diagnoses.
See a doctor no matter what! If you are worried, then it is worth it for your peace of mine and your health and the health of others. It is your responsibility to know and I think you have an obligation to any partner to get tested.
You know what? Don’t beat yourself up like this. I would hazard to say a fair percentage of us have been where you are; I know I have. It has nothing to do with being smart or not being responsible. Sometimes things happen that we don’t expect.
If you’re too embarrassed to go to your regular gyno, go to Planned Parenthood. I used them for over 10 years and I can attest, it doesn’t matter if you did the wildest things imaginable with a whole football team, they will not bat an eye. They have pretty much seen/heard it all. They may talk to you about being more careful next time but I never felt judged at my Planned Parenthood, no matter what I was there for.
Be more gentle with yourself. There’s no need to lose sleep. Go get tested and get treatment if you need it, and then put this behind you. Good luck.
To Ann at 1:48 – this is a very compassionate and informative response to the OP. I like your style.
This!
I asked a worker there once what the worst thing she’s seen was. She said it’s the women/girls who get drunk and raped while on holiday. No chance of catching the guys, no idea what they;ve been exposed to.
I’m headed on a weeklong business trip to NYC, which will also be my first visit to the city. The itinerary includes a lot of work stuff (conference, meetings, etc.) as well as a lot of non-work stuff (Broadway show, touristy things, art museum exploring, pizza-eating). What do I need to pack?? My business formal attire is somewhat limited since I work in a more-or-less casual office, but I do have a suit. I also will probably need some shoes that can travel/pack well but will look good on the sidewalk and in a business lunch, and not give me blisters. Any advice from you ladies would be much appreciated!
If your trip is soon, be sure to bring warm enough clothes: a hat, gloves, warm coat, socks. You will walk more than you imagine, so pack two pairs of comfortable shoes so you can switch off, and bring band-aids for blisters. Unless you take a taxi everywhere, you will be outside more than you probably are at home on work days, and while it tends to stay above zero, it does hover around or below the freezing point in winter there. Bring an umbrella and possibly a tote. Buy a pashmina on a street corner as soon as you get there and wear it everywhere.
Bring your best jeans for the non-work times. You will probably want the suit and other business clothes for the conference and meetings. I like to bring a couple of sweaters to swap for the jacket on later days of the conference, and a couple of blouse choices in case it turns out to be more formal than sweaters (you really never know until you get there). Layer, because conference rooms are often too cold.
Have a great time!
as a frequent traveler, packing for a week in general:
i never plan outfits but pick one or two theme colors and build items around that. For example, black and gray, bringing black sheath dress, black and white tweed suit, black theory plain suit, gray flannel dress pants, couple of black ultrathin turtleneck sweaters, black dress shirt, black jeans and brown heels and black patent flats. then add your warm accessories in color or camel: scarf, gloves, pashmina etc. Bring a mix of jewelry from studs (day) to statement piece or silk scarf (evening). Tons of combination options that way in case certain outings are more formal/casual than you thought or in case one pair of shoes starts hurting.
for NYC specifically: bring a pair of nice flats or dress boots waterproofed before you go in addition to any heels. Union and Pennsylvania station sell laminated maps of city with streets, attractions and subway lines. These are small enough for pulling out discreetly and i found they were great for referring to when walking in the snow and/or wearing gloves.
Thanks for the input! I like the idea of just choosing a color scheme, but I think I might be too anal for that… I like to have my outfits totally planned out – although choosing all the outfits in a particular theme would probably leave more wiggle room in the event I forget to pack something or something comes up and I need a fresh outfit.
Winters in NYC are very familiar to me. Used to live in the suburbs there. Would not dream of wearing a hat or a “pashima” in NYC. Have walked miles and miles in NYC. Never got a blister except once when wearing very cheap heels. What you need in winter is a very comfortable pair of good leather boots that can be worn with everything. You need a warm wool coat that can be worn with everything. One suit is surely not enough. If you have a pantsuit you can wear the pants with a sweater for a casual outing. I question the notion of jeans on a business trip to Manhattan unless you are very young or very svelte. If you want to wear jeans there are some nice looking black ones at Ann Taylor. You might want to take a black long-sleeved dress for a retaurant evening. It’s nice to have everything black and a coat in a color or in camel.
NYC gets very windy. A pashmina or wrap can actually be very helpful when navigating the wind tunnels downtown.
Jeans are worn everywhere by people of all ages. I agree you should not wear jeans to your business functions, but in your downtime, jeans can be great, esp. tucked into jeans (keeps your pants from being dirty).
A very comfy pair of boots is indeed essential.
For Bdway show — you will see people dressed nicely & you will see people with fannypacks and sweats. Don’t be the latter. Think nice casual — pants & button down and/or blazer for men; nice but not too formal dress or skirt/sweater/pants/sweater for women. You can wear jeans if you are able to dress them up, but it rarely looks good the way most people do it.
If you’re only going to to go to one museum, I would recommend the Met. Make sure to check out the Egyptian Temple & the Impressionist Wing. Natural History Museum is also great. MOMA, Whitney & Guggenheim are great if you’re more into modern/contemporary. These last three are also much smaller — you can do one of them in about an hour/two; the Met or Nat Hist. are much bigger & take more time. I would advise against trying to do more than any 1 in a day though.
Have fun!
You’ve said this before about the hats, and it only underscores for me how different people’s perceptions of the same place can be. I lived in NYC for three years (moved away two years ago) and wore hats all winter. I wouldn’t notice someone in a hat, but I would notice a bare-headed person in 15-degree weather.
I’m not sure what is being suggested to do with the pashmina, but if it’s to use it as a scarf, well, once again, I wore scarves all winter and had some beautiful ones.
Nice jeans and an appropriate top are fine for many places, including restaurants, provided said restaurant is hip-expensive (like, say, Annisa) and not just straight up formal (Jean-Georges). Obviously, I wouldn’t wear them to the opera (or even to a Broadway show, although heaven knows, people do).
No offense, but this post sounds like the idea a suburbanite has of what living in a city is like, not what NYC is actually like.
I agree with both cbackson & Anonymous @ 7:53pm — wear a hat! I think I made the suggestion earlier that you can wear a cute hat rather than one of those form-fitting ski hats, but it is very cold without one. Sometimes I wear a fedora or a cloche.
Also, pashmina’s are quite fashionable, and can be worn with everything. Maybe chix pix meant that don’t wear JUST a pashmina for warmth?
Some clubs don’t allow jeans (although I agree about the formal/hip distinction for restaurants), but more importantly (although this only applies for summer, so not really useful here), a lot of them don’t allow shorts. But you could probably get away with the style of silk shorts with stockings in the winter.
Also, the nice thing about NYC — you can always dress up more: be more fashionable, be more trendy, be more ridiculous. It is always a good thing in terms of the environment.
I love cloches. But I’m from the South, so I’m pro-hat in general.
Agreed. I wear a hat almost always in winter, and wearing a pashmina is a great way to add a dash of color as well as some warmth. I don’t understand that comment – I’ve lived in NYC, DC and Chicago, and all are perfectly acceptable/fashionable attire…..
But this reminds my of the Sex in the City scrunchie episode….
No scrunchies in NYC. Please. I insist.
Are scrunchies ok anywhere in 2011? I hope not…
You can’t even wear scrunchies in Wichita, Kansas in 2011 without comment…. NYC goes without saying.
Except:
1. At the gym
2. And/or on children.
I’ll definitely be bringing a hat – I’m actually more concerned about comfort than fashion for the non-work part of my trip. It’s February, and it’s far, far colder than I’m used to, and I’d hate to be uncomfortable or in pain for the duration of my visit. I do love cloches, as they manage to not muss up my hair, are warm and (in my opinion) stylish.
Don’t worry, my hair’s not long enough anymore for a scrunchie. But I may use the Broadway show as an excuse to get dressed up – opportunities for dress-up don’t come along often in my life, so I seize on any excuse for a nice black sheath, a sparkly accessory and an evening coat. ^_^
Albany for Character and Fitness advice? All I’ve heard is wear a suit and be pleasant to the interviewers- that enough? (no red flags in my background).
Have to stick around from Tues. to Thurs.- any good restaurant/evening activity recommendations from Albany corporetters?
I didn’t do Albany. Did the first department.
But I would say wearing a suit & being pleasant is sufficient. My interviewer didn’t ask me any questions at all. Looked at my application (actually read it while I sat there), and the told me to say hi to someone I work with.
They do include things like your law school app & your personal statement with your application. So be prepared to discuss whatever you said made you want to go to law school. :)
But, don’t worry — it’s really just a formality. Congrats on your pending admission!
What? They get my personal statement? I had no idea!
Thanks for the advice!
Besides having a number of college bars, there is not much else to do in Albany. Two good restaurants that I can think of off the top of my head are Jack’s Oyster House and The Pump Station. If you’re staying downtown, then those should be good choices. Other than that, you’d have to venture out into the surrounding towns (Loudonville, Delmar) for nice restaurants. If you’re looking for something more casual, Bomber’s is a fun place– its a dive bar with great Mexican food.
If you are staying within or going out in the actual City of Albany, be careful! There are some very bad neighborhoods that are not safe at any time of day.
I have been fortunate to speak at numerous panel events. What I have realized after viewing photos from the panels is that I have an awful grimace/unhappy look on my face when other panelists are speaking. I don’t want to have a teethy smile going the whole panel, but how do I train myself to keep the corners of my mouth upturned/happy vs downturned? Any suggestions for maintaining a more “friendly” and “welcoming” facial expression?
I know it sounds goofy, but I remember hearing in a class I took on interpersonal communication that the way to look “interested” in a speaker is to try to picture yourself eating an apple. It forces your mouth to relax a bit and your eyes open in a way that looks like you’re listening and engaged.
Sit down in front of a mirror, and practice a look that is not quite a smile but is basically your mouth slightly turned up & your face is otherwise relaxed. It helps to try to “look” interested. Sometimes we can be really interested but look bored or hostile, and other times we can actually be bored but fake interest. Expressions are not dispositive, but practicing in front of a mirror to get the “appropriate” expression helps communicate what you want to convey to the world. Then practice this expression in random places. Supermarket, on your commute, in meetings, etc. It ends up becoming much easier. Good luck!!!
Thanks for the tips Anon and Aims. I am really going to work on this. I think I have the grimace/deep concentration look more often than not. My natural relaxed expression has the corners of my mouth down. As I am typing this I actually have to think about tightening those cheek muscles a little to pull up the corners of my mouth and get that twinkle in my eye. The upside to downward checks, I have very few wrinkles!
When I took the NITA trial class, one session was with an acting/speaking coach, and she suggested that when a witness is speaking (or opposing counsel), one should look interested rather than smiley, and a great way to do this is to raise your eyebrows a bit. Not in a “WTF?!” way, but just lifting them, and at the same time thinking about being interested and vaguely pleasant. I found this incredibly helpful.
Question for all the BigLaw ladies (and perhaps BigLaw female partners) out there:
If someone sent you a cold e-mail requesting a half hour of your time to learn how to transition into your practice area (and into BigLaw), would you respond? Would it make a difference if you and this particular solicitee went to both the same undergrad and law school (said law school being a T2 law school)?
TIA!
Yes, definitely if we went to the same law school. If you don’t have time to meet in person I’m sure you can manage 15 min. on the phone.
If you had the time it would be nice if you would meet with her or just agree to a phone call. Sometimes it’s just nice to “pay it foward”.
My bad, I don’t think I made this clear: I am the one cold e-mailing. I went to a law school where breaking into BigLaw generally happens as a lateral (if at all). So I was very excited to find a partner who shared both my undergrad (top public university) and law school alma maters. I was just wondering if people ever responded to these sorts of e-mails. Hence the inquiry. =)
Oh. Yes, go ahead and email! I always respond to these sorts of things (and I’d guess all the other posters on this thread do too).
Definitely. I got my job through a cold call. I think it’s the best way to get your foot in the door.
This may sound silly, but did you call or e-mail? Did you have to follow-up with the person before they responded? I definitely want to be seen as “eager and motivated” but I don’t want to cross into “desperate.” Thanks!
Email. I respond to these things all the time.
(And everyone knows how bad the job market is – it doesn’t hurt to help a sister out once in a while.)
Email. I get these emails all the time; it’s preferable to a phone call because I’m not put on the spot and have time to figure how when and how to interact with the solicitee.
I’m often frantically busy during the day, so my response to a cold call could be more curt than I would like.
Not BigLaw anymore, but yes.
I emailed grads of my law school who were at small firms looking for informational interviews and they were generally very responsive. BigLaw may be harder due to the longer hours, but don’t let that discourage you. People generally do want to help out grads of their law school. Just make sure you don’t sound like you are asking them for a job. Feel free to send a follow-up email in a couple of weeks if you don’t hear back, politely saying that you are following up and reiterating how helpful it would be to speak with them. I have always wanted to help when I’ve gotten those types of emails, but sometimes I’m too busy to deal the day I get it and then it gets lost in the shuffle.
As someone who has sent these emails (although not to biglaw people because that isn’t realistic for me) a response would be nice. Even a response saying that you are too busy to meet would be better than no response.
Sorry, that was in response to Totally Anon.