Frugal Friday’s TPS Report: Wrap Dress

231 Comments

1. Oh that’s pretty. I’m realizing how awesome silky, washable dresses are especially when traveling and operating with limited suitcase space. My month away totally warrants the purchases of more dresses, right?

   1. Definitely! I love dresses for travel because they’re so easy to pack, throw on, hand wash and drip dry. You can also switch up the look with accessories.

   2. Of course! Plus they’re very easy to dress up/down – heels for work, sandals for casual dinners, leggings and boots for chilly casual. When I travel, I tend to bring dresses in the same color family and then the three shoe options above, with colorful accessories and jackets. Easy, effortless, and looks very put together. I even wear black jersey dresses with sandals for the plane, because you never know when you’ll run into the client or Sr Mgmt in the airport or hotel lounge.

      1. Agreed. The last work trip I took all dresses, which was somewhat unusual for me. It was so easy to get dressed each day!

      2. Agreed. They take up no space in my luggage, can be dressed up or dressed down, worn with a cardigan, and don’t wrinkle.

      3. R, do you pack your tall boots, then? Mine take up waaaay too much room in my suitcase, so the only way I can ever bring boots is to wear them on the plane.

         1. Yep. I have a slightly slouchy pair in brown and black, depending on the color scheme for the trip. I lay them on the outside edges and pack socks and underwear inside so they somewhat keep their shape without taking up too much room.

2. Does the Pippa bag fit on your shoulder or do you have to hand carry it? Is it a good work bag?

   1. It is a VERY tight fit to get it over your shoulder. I have it in shark which came with a strap, but I don’t find it a big deal to hand carry it or in the crook of my arm. I think its a great work bag as you can actually get a lot of stuff into it (within reason, it’s not a laptop bag or for heels), and all the pockets make it really easy to find things.

      1. Thank you!

   2. Also note that there is a “drop handle” (longer) which does fit, and the regular.

3. Can I just say that I love Liz Claiborne dresses from JC Penney? The fabric isn’t the greatest (it’s not see through or thin, it’s just usually polyester) but they are totally affordable and look really professional. It’s one of my go to items from JC Penney and I’m really glad they carry them.

   1. I actually really like this dress. Can you comment on sizing? Runs large? TTS?

      1. +1. I want this now, but I’m concerned about sizing.

4. Going to visit my parents this weekend and trying to figure out how to not revert to being a bratty teenager (I’m in my 30s). My mom is 68 and while she’s in excellent health, she’s starting to get old lady judgy. She’s always been fairly judgmental, but it’s just gotten worse as she’s gotten older. Recently, whenever I talk to her, she wants to complain about two things: (1) the cost of the MRI she recently got; and (2) the fact that young parents bring their babies into stores in carriers (as in the kind that you use as a car set and can snap out and carry in your hand) instead of strollers or the kind of carriers you wear on your body. As for the MRI, I have no idea what MRIs cost, or what goes into setting prices (e.g., tech salaries and training, buying/renting the machine, maintenance, overhead costs at the hospital/clinic, amount of time it takes the doctor to read it, etc.). Also, she didn’t pay out of pocket for this, but is furious that they cost so much because “that’s what driving up medical costs across the country.” As for the infants in carriers WHO CARES? I mean, seriously. How can you spend time caring about how people carry their babies if the babies are safe? (She thinks it looks awkward and uncomfortable.) And, no, I don’t think her fixation on babies in carriers is a sign of dementia or anything like it. She’s always been a bit like this; it’s just intensified lately.

   So, okay, I realize that the baby carrier thing is more funny than anything else. And I also realize that the best response would be to say “yeah, mom, that must be awkward for them. Anyway, how did your event at work last week go?” But, and here’s where the bratty teen comes in, I feel like I need to show her the error of her ways and point out that this must be working for those parents, it’s probably easier to just snap out the carrier and not disturb the baby (mom: “if they can’t handle getting a baby out of a car seat, they aren’t very good parents. I never had that problem with you.”), and WHO CARES!? This doesn’t go over well. My mother accuses me of being difficult on purpose, and we end our conversation awkwardly. (Similar trajectory for the MRI thing. I point out that I can’t either agree or disagree with her on whether the cost is outrageous because I don’t have the necessary information to determine whether, given the factors that go into setting the price, whether the price was appropriately set. Yes, I do financial policy for a living, so…yeah.)

   Meanwhile, she also complains about every choice made by every member of our family. Okay, our family is a bit of a disaster and several of my cousins could be up for “Worst Life Choices of the Year” awards. But they’re all adults and have been making bad choices for years, so why be outraged? My step-sister recently quit a fairly good job and, if her past actions mean anything, probably it was not for a good reason. My mother will complain about this. My step-sister has mental health issues (which my mother believes are simply a lack of discipline from my step-father and his ex while their children were growing up). She’s also gay and grew up with a mother who has held very strongly homophobic views (not sure if she’s come around re her daughter, but I know it was a bit of a thing when my step-sister was a teen and wasn’t out yet). My mother is deeply uncomfortable with the fact that my step-sister wears men’s clothes, has a male haircut, and dates frequently. Frankly, I don’t want to hear all this from my mom. I’m not close to my step-sister (she’s 12 years younger and we didn’t grow up together), but I wish my mom would cut her some slack. If I say that, my mom once again accuses me of being obstinate and disagreeing just to disagree. (No, mom, I truly hold these beliefs and while I think my step-sister has made poor choices, your judgment isn’t helping her. At all.)

   So sorry for the rant. My mom and I used to be very close when I was younger (when I was growing up, it was just the two of us). But I don’t agree with her on everything now and she sees that as a personal attack. I know that she’s not going to change. I know a lot of the reasons behind why she is the way she is (my grandfather was emotionally abusive). And I know that she’s not a major influence in the world, so if she holds not terribly great views, well, she’s unlikely to affect anyone else since they’ll likely ignore her. So it would be better if I just shut up and said “yep, mom, you’re right.” But instead I argue with her like it’s actually going to make a difference. Which it won’t.

   1. I try to think, “will it annoy me more to bite my tongue or to have a conversation / argument about this?” Sometimes I do decide it is a hill I want to die on but most of the time, it isn’t worth it?

      1. I think this is definitely an “I can be right, or I can be happy” situation.

         Sure you can point out the error of your mom’s ways – but what do you really get for that? You get annoyed (because she won’t accept your position), she gets annoyed (because you’re arguing with her over something dumb, for no good reason), and no one really wins this pointless battle.

         When I’m dealing with a person like your mom, I tend to revert back to the following:

         – Does this need to be said?
         – Does this need to be said right now?
         – Does this need to be said by me?

         No? Then move it along to talking about the weather/a new book you read/what is for dinner.

         1. You said:
            “But, and here’s where the bratty teen comes in, I feel like I need to show her the error of her ways”

            If you REALLY want to know how to “not” do that, the answer is pretty simple. Don’t do it. You’re in your 30’s, act like it. (don’t mean that to sound harsh) I”m also in my 30’s and also have a ridiculous ranty mother but mine has fixated on things she hears on Fox news, so you can just imagine. But she refuses to actually research anything. I know how hard it is not to argue, but I finally gave up when she started on about how the president was going to rewrite the constitution (Like personally. With a pen.) and I could not convince her that, well, he can’t. But once I gave up, I just gave up arguing on everything, and after I ignored her/changed the subject enough times, she started to mellow.

            You can’t change her behavior in this situation, but you can certainly change yours. So do it.

            1. Thank you for the mental image of Obama emerging from his office with a red pen in one hand and a copy of the constitution in the other, handing it to his secretary, and asking her to “Type that up for me, please” :)

            2. Ditto!!

            3. +100.

               “You can’t change her behavior in this situation, but you can certainly change yours. So do it.”

               This is such a great life lesson.

      2. Yay! Kat!!! It’s Fruegel Friday already!!!! I love fruegel Friday’s! As for the OP, always treat your MOM right b/c she was the one that BORE you. Yes, mabye she is getting a little cranky and opinionated, but in a way, we all are in one way or other. It sound’s like you and me are around the same age — my mom is younger and I am probabley younger then you, but I expect that I am cranky to my mom, but my mom bake’s me pie’s and make’s meat for me to take home so I do NOT have to cook myself in my apartement.

         Have a great Friday. Tomorrow, Sam is driveing me out to LI to eat with Mom and Dad, and Mom know’s he is a VEEGAN, so she is goieng to whip up a VEEGAN Salad. YAY!!

   2. Yeah, this is tricky. I sometimes pretend that my blackberry went off when I need to break something before it starts to spiral / I put my foot in my mouth (my people are all “work is important” and are used to be being tethered to the bberry).

      And there was a Letterman top 10-list of things you can just say to string along a conversation that you aren’t paying attention to, and those might be useful when you need to say something without agreeing or downloading what you actually think. “I wonder what they do in Japan about that” is one of them; I forgot the rest.

      1. I love that “I wonder what they do in japan about that” comment. I am going to use it in meetings.

   3. Family is tough. Can’t live with ’em, can’t shoot ’em.

      Is there anyone else you can commiserate with? I have some relatives who love to bicker, complain about politics, and pass judgement on everyone around them, and whenever they start on their racist/homophobic/anti-whatever rants, my mother and I nod them, say “Wow, that’s so frustrating, I hear ya,” and then look at each other and roll our eyes and basically snicker behind our hands. It relieves the tension on our end, and our relatives are so busy being angry at the world, they rarely notice our amusement.

      1. I want baconpancakes. that is all.

   4. I think this is where family bingo is supposed to be played. Keep a scorecard and enjoy.

      Also, can you control your interactions by deciding what to talk about? Like, always talking about recipes, flower growing techniques (I was going to say gardening but we all have very interesting associations with that word), weather, volcanoes, etc? Get her to argue about stuff that isn’t controversial (oregano is superior to basil or whatever).

      1. Haha. “Flower growing techniques” sounds like a new term for TTC.

         1. Oh dear…..but I thought maybe fruits/vegetables would be babies?

      2. No no no. Leave “gardening” in as a topic, then process the conversation on both the botanical level and the -thissite- level. With a straight face.

   5. I don’t really have any advice, but it sounds like you love your family despite them being “a bit of a disaster”, which is awesome!

      1. I do! We’re one of those old northeast families that arrived about 400 years ago, and never moved more then 20 miles away from each other (except me, and another cousin). So it’s this giant, tightly packed clan. Whatever else I can say about them, they’re my family and I love them and they’ll always love and support me, no matter what.

         1. Would it help you to think about how much harder it must be to be your mother than to just have to listen to her? Imagine being in the head of someone who is constantly annoyed by EVERYTHING.

            As ITDS said, it does sound like you really love your family, so maybe a bit of reframing/compassion would help. Plus a liberal helping of Family Bingo/notes for your tell-all family opus/that Top 10 Letterman list (which I must track down – that sounds hilarious).

            Good luck!

   6. I have a similar issue with my mother. I find that taking a deep breath whenever it is my turn to speak helps immensely. It slows down the back-and-forth and gives me time to consider, as others have said, whether this is a hill I want to die on. Usually the break in the conversation empowers me to say “I can see why you feel that way” or something else neutral that encourages the end of the conversation and extracts me from it. I have to remind myself that the issues that are frustrating because of the WHO CARES??? work in reverse — I have no reason to have a strong opinion either. It is really, really hard at the beginning, but it gets easier as it becomes a habit. If your mother is like mine, she just wants to kvetch — and if you’re not a willing kvetching partner, the conversation will stop.

   7. My grandmother is very much like this. She’s in her early 70s (a bit older than your mom). Everytime she called, she wanted to complain about the same 4-5 things that were not really relevant to her. Lot’s of repeating herself; judging people she doesn’t know about things that don’t affect her, etc.

      The problem ultimately was that my grandmother was bored. Her friends had moved when she retired; she had never been involved in any community activities because she had worked a lot; her grandkids were off at college/moved away so she wasn’t going to their sports games anymore. She had nothing going on in her own life, so she was fixated on others.

      It’s been a lot better lately because my mom did the following:

      – Started setting my grandmother up on friend dates with the mothers of my mom’s friends who also live in the area. Many of my grandmother’s friends moved away when they retired; this helped her expand her network.

      – Found some activities at our community for center for seniors she thought she’d enjoy (aerobics, etc.)

      – My grandmother was already going to church every day, so my mom helped her connect with a bible study group for senior members. From there, she met a woman who volunteers 2 Fridays a month so now my grandmother does that too.

      – Bought them a membership to the town pool for the summer as a birthday gift – now they go every day it’s sunny and she met some “pool friends”

      This may not apply to your mom, but it’s one potential way of fixing the source of the problem.

      1. Yeah, except my mom still works 45+ hour weeks and spends the rest of the time working on her art in her studio or going out to see her artist friends’ work. Although it could be an increasing feeling of disconnect with the rest of the world (like the young people are passing her by) and a need to weigh in on what these young people are doing as a way to stay relevant.

   8. I went through a phase like that with my mom too. It wasn’t that she was judgy, thankfully, but more that she just talks incessantly and sometimes says really ridiculous things and I felt the need to correct her or refute what she just said. I still occasionally feel this urge.

      I agree with what others have said – you have to decide whether what she’s saying is actually bad/wrong and needs to be corrected, or whether this is just something stupid that you smooth over because she’s your mom. Like, when she’s complaining about MRI prices, maybe just let her rant or discuss the overall issue of rising healthcare costs (if you know them…. I don’t) thereby educating her about some of the factors at play. But if she’s ranting about your step-sister, I think it’s okay to say that what she’s saying is mean and hurtful, and maybe your step-sister could use more understanding than judgment.

      And I agree with others about finding new activities to do together. My mom likes to come into Manhattan, and I try to go to new stores with her, museums, or restaurants. Having a finite period of time/activity gives us some together time and also a focus for conversation.

      1. My mother is also an incessant talker and says random, ridiculous things and is hyper-critical of everyone and everything. It’s exhausting being around her.

         1. Are you my sister? I can’t be around my mother for more than three hours without starting to get snippy. I love my mom, but she just goes on and on and on about nothing!

   9. Agreed with the other commenters who point out that you need to pick your battles.

      I will say that if I were in your situation, the one battle that I would probably pick would be your mom’s attitude towards your step-sister’s sexuality. I know that this is very holier-than-thou-liberal, but when my relatives express homophobic or judgmental views about someone else’s sexuality—and honestly, from what you’ve described it does seem like your mother’s attitude towards your step-sister’s love life and appearance is rooted in homophobia, even if she doesn’t express these feelings in a hateful or bigoted way—I call them on it. I try to be as non-confrontational and chipper about it as I can, but I do believe in the cumulative power of making sure that my relatives know that I accept and respect the person whom they’re judging. That’s an issue of respecting someone’s inherent dignity, I think, which is very different from celebrating that person’s poor professional choices.

      Obviously, that’s just me on my high horse, and you shouldn’t feel compelled to combat any one thing in your mom’s attitude specifically just because some person on the internet told you to. But if I were in your shoes, I think you’d be doing your mother (and your step-sister!) a real service if you encouraged her to be a bit more respectful and open-minded.

      1. I was going to say something like this too. I think standing up for a more vulnerable, younger family member who is gay (or whatever other targeted group) is an instance where the answers to “does this need to be said? Now? By me?” are often all “yes.” I have done this and I know it isn’t fun, but I have no regrets.

      2. Yeah, I don’t have much advice for the MRI/baby carrier thing, but at the very least I would handle any comments about your stepsister with “Mom, I don’t want to talk about [stepsister]. I’m here to see you. What have you been working on in your studio lately?

   10. are we sisters? My mom is the same way, and our relationship is further strained by the fact that she doesn’t really hide the fact that she likes my (non-argumentative) brothers better. We have spent the better part of the last 10 years in a somewhat strained relationship. I don’t understand her and I don’t think she understands me. What has helped in my case are two things: 1) as she’s gotten older (your mom is 10 years younger), I realize more and more that she’s not going to change, so I either have to accept her, or I will lose her one day without ever having improved our relationship. 2) When she’s driving me crazy, I force myself to think back on some of the really unbelievably kind and generous things she’s done for me. For example, she took a beautiful (but dated) pin that she had with some precious stones, and turned it into earrings for me, since I could not see myself wearing the pin. There was a costly stone that needed to be replaced, and she cashed in some of her broken gold jewelry and paid for the replacement stone. All I have to do is think of that one unbelievably kind and generous act, and I can let her rant about MRI’s and talk about my siblingsfor hours. Deep down, I remember the caring, generous and non-judgmental person inside, and all is good.

   11. Long time reader, first time commenter who might be a little late to the party here, but I once read something that said “Don’t argue with stupid people – they just drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.” Not insinuating your mother is a stupid person, per say, but I think she’s dragging you down to her level. I agree with the others – don’t engage!

   12. Three words: Smile and nod.

       My mom is going to be 90 this year and she is always rattling on about people I don’t know, and ridiculous things I don’t agree with (“Your Aunt Ellen gave herself cancer by eating all that barbecued meat all those years”), and I just say “mm-hmm” and nod and think about the fact that in a handful of years she will be gone and I don’t want to remember fighting with her all the time.

       If she says something truly outrageous I will mildly interject “Gee, Mom, I hope you’re not planning to share that dietary theory with Aunt Ellen now that the damage is done,” or something similar.

       It’s hard to get used to biting one’s tongue, but really I think it’s the best option.

       1. Oh, I missed the part about the step-sister. For that sort of thing, I am nice but firm: “Mom, sorry but I’m not going to listen to that kind of thing. Let’s talk about the concert we saw last night.” Repeat as necessary. You may be required to actually leave the room a few times but if you are pleasant yet firm she will get the message.

          1. +1

       2. Second the smile and nod. Even when my 88 year old grandpa starts going on about “those gay people” and “those black people” and “those mexicans,” but sometimes in much more colorful and horrible language than that. I forget which crime he was telling me about from the morning news last week, but it wasn’t anything unusual – vandalism, or maybe the Treyvon Martin marches in LA that got out of control, and he totally said “they should just shoot them,” and he was serious!

          Then again, my grandpa was born in 1925, grew up during some horrible economic times (actually lived in a tent and hunted squirrels and frogs for food as a kid), and was a Marine during WWII (drafted, but never deployed out of CA), so considering he only says that stuff to me, I just let it go. Usually I say something like “well they can’t actually do that, papa” and he says “oh, I know.”

          1. See, I get the attraction of the whole, “they are old and they grew up during a specific period” argument. But, as I get older, I find that it’s not really an acceptable excuse for making racist remarks. There are plenty of people who grew up during those years and do not think, believe, or say such things. I am much less forgiving with my (racist, homophobic) family than many of the posters here. I understand not everyone is willing to draw a hard line with their families, but making an excuse for them, as though they might believe differently had they enjoyed the privilege of growing up during “our” time, assumes a lot. Also, reading up on the many black men who were enslaved for coal companies through forced labor camps, chained and living in conditions that were truly horrible and inhumane, without the luxury of being free to live in a tent and hunt for any type of food, might give you some perspective on the poor, but otherwise freedom your grandfather enjoyed as a kid.

5. This isn’t meant to be a criticism at all, but this dress isn’t what I would choose were I attempting to convey dignity. It’s entirely professional, and it’s absolutely something I would wear to the office, church, or a Jr. League meeting, but if I were specifically focused on appearing dignified (for example, were I in the situation the reader describes or were I otherwise in a presenting/leadership role at a meeting), I’d choose something in a solid with more structure. I recognize that as a personal choice, but it got me thinking about what reads as “dignified” to me vs. to other people. I’d love to hear what other people think about this.

   1. I agree with this. The dress reads more fun and flirty-ish, yet work appropriate, to me.

   2. You need less structure when you’re 22, and she dressed up the dress. A
      sorority convention is a lot more like Jr. League meeting than a BigLaw presentation, so I think the dress was probably sufficiently dignified for the situation. And, since it made the writer feel confident, it seems to have worked.

      1. Wildkitten, you took the words out of my mouth!

      2. +1. Jr. League is Greek for Grownups. (not a slight, I am a member and was in a sorority)

         1. +1

      3. I didn’t mean to suggest that she wasn’t, merely that “dignified” clearly means something different to me and that I think it’s interesting to think about what that means to each of us.

         Incidentally, depending on how the organization is structured, a board member of a national sorority may very well be decades beyond her 20s (my sorority’s national leadership were all alumnae).

         1. That’s true. This would be pretty casual for an alumnae.

   3. Totally agree. But, I think it’s perfect for the sorority summit situation described above. I imagine I would have felt like a million bucks in something like this back in my kkg days. Back then, “dignified” meant something more like this whereas today I’d need a nicely tailored dark suit ( at least blazer) to feel the same way.

   4. I agree with cbackson. Solid and structured. If my goal is “dignified” I will choose a dress that would look out of place paired with anything other than a classic pump/flat and jewelry, rather than one that could be worn with flip flops and messy hair but could also be dressed up.

      Then again, I have zero experience with sororities/sorority functions, so the OP’s dress choice could have been entirely appropriate for her setting.

   5. I think it works better to project ‘approachable’ and ‘relate-able’ when your authority is sufficiently well-established that you are aspiring to the next order of leadership where you are seeking to inspire and excite other people about your particular vision of the world. Think tech-industry super-stars in khakis and turtlenecks vs. bankers and lawyers in navy 2-buttons.

      Certainly I’ve dialed back on super-formal suits as I’ve gotten senior enough to be occasionally described as ‘scary’ – I only put one on when it’s clear that everyone else will be suited, or when opting for the most multi-tasking outfit on a business trip with restricted baggage.

      1. Yeah, it’s funny – I do NOT feel authoritative in suits. I feel like a dressed-up little kid. They’re not commonly worn in my transactional practice, so maybe that’s why.

         1. This is a little off topic in terms of setting, but I always wear a suit to court for custody proceedings regarding my stepchild. I know my stepchild’s mother and half the courtroom will be in jeans and almost no one there on personal business will be in a suit so it makes me feel dignified, authoritative, and powerful (which is nice in a situation in which you are actually completely powerless). I was a litigator until a year ago though so I am definitely comfortable in a suit and my closet is still full of suits that I never have a reason to wear anymore.

            1. Props to you.

               Personally, I feel weird not wearing a suit to court. I think it’s something about respect for the people who are also there, that you’re meeting with, etc, even if you hate their guts and are getting divorced/suing them for backwages/harassment, etc.

            2. I also feel weird not wearing a suit to court. I’ll even pull one out for jury duty (although probably wouldn’t wear one every day of a trial if selected).

            3. Me three! I had to run some paperwork down to a courtroom years ago on a day I was working from home, and I went in dark trouser jeans, a long sleeved blouse, and some black flats. I was in the room for 3 seconds to get a stamp from the clerk, and I was so uncomfortable I never did it again. I always throw on a suit if I have any business inside the courthouse, and for jury duty I wear the pants of my suit and pack the blazer just in case.

   6. I was thinking the exact same thing. I read the post and then expected to see a bunch of replies saying the dress is not that great. But each to her own i suppose . . . .

6. It seems that these are office attire in my large southern city.

   What does one wear these days to dress provocatively?

   1. Welcome to Atlanta :)

      (apologies if you are elsewhere – but the Real Housewives definitely seem to have made an office-impact here)

      1. I went to a lawyer event out on Long Island in NY recently and was really surprised to see what would be considered “stripper shoes” on 3/4 of the women attorneys. Like actual clear heels and bondage straps. Some were cute but I would have never worn them in daytime. It kind of made me laugh because this was a very last minute event I had to attend during a workday that I chose to dress down because I thought I’d be at my desk all day just writing. I actually made an emergency run to the drugstore to buy stockings so I’d look a little more put together – totally unnecessary. But I sort of ascribe it to the fact that if you’re driving everywhere instead of walking, it’s easy to not have to worry about wearing sensible shoes.

         1. You were clearly the best dressed woman in the room, AIMS. Nice job. :)

   2. I make no judgment on heels or anything else, but I once heard Bill Maher say, when discussing how, erm, provocatively, women dress now a days, that the people he feels bad for are actual whores. Because how can they convey, “I’m selling this, here!”

      It’s obnoxious, but I still laughed.

7. Can I rant for a second? It totally creeps me out when someone puts a shirt on their infant child ( usually son)that says ” I love boobies” or “I had boobies for breakfast.” I’m not a mom (so maybe im missing something?) and I’m really happy the breast feeding is working out for you but…yuck. Ok I feel better now

   1. Yeah, that feels like it sexualizing young children?

      1. Thank you! It feels that way to me but my friend thinks it’s adorable.

   2. Oh, I don’t like that either.

   3. TMI

      I have daughters. Maybe this is inflicted on boys more?

   4. Yeah, I think it is weird, but as long as no one is putting that shirt on my (future) child, then I figure it isn’t worth getting worked up over.

      And i’m super pro-bfeeding, pro-bfeeding-in-public-and-that-doesn’t-mean-restricted-to-public-restrooms, etc. I just think that type of shirt is weird.

      1. Oh I’m totally aware that it’s none of my business! And if it’s actually a pro-breast feeding statement then I’m clearly a jerk. Just strikes me as a crude sexualization of a non sexual act, which is why I always thought people had a problem with public breast feeding in the first place.

         1. I totally agree. The reason I think the shirts sexualize young children is that I only ever see them on baby boys.

            1. I actually see those shirts as sexualizing the mother a lot more than sexualizing the child (although there is certainly an element of that!). I agree with Rant, it’s sexualizing a non-sexual act and is totally crude.

               Not directly related, but I also have a problem with products that raise money/awareness for breast cancer that say “Save the Boobies” or “I Love Boobies” because I feel like it prioritizes women’s breasts over their lives. A number of women in my family beat breast cancer, and I remember my cousin feeling such shame at undergoing a mastectomy, and I think a lot comes from the sexualization of women’s bodies.

            2. @Brooklyn Paralegal–couldn’t agree more on the breast cancer slogans. It’s about women’s lives, not their “boobies.” It feels so degrading to me that we have to pitch our health as something sexual for it to get noticed.

         2. It is a pro-breast feeding statement. It is not s3xualizing an infant.

   5. Yes, agree, this is weird. There are also some very creepy t-shirts for girls that give me the same feeling.

   6. I generally think it’s silly to put message shirts on infants and toddlers. But seeing a baby in a shirt that says “Breast Man” doesn’t bother me anymore than seeing a kid in a shirt that says “Poop Machine,” “Bottleholic,” “Future Heart Surgeon,” or “Obama/Romney/Whoever.” In terms of sexualizing children, I think that’s the least of it – I see much worse daily. But I do think the attitude we have to breast feeding in general is very juvenile, and if in some way this helps make it less so by bringing it up for discussion, maybe that’s a good thing.

   7. This is something we joke about in the privacy of our own home (“baby girl likes the b–bs”), but I would never let my child wear a onesie or shirt that said that. Then again, I won’t let my baby wear onesies that say anything. She’s a child, not a billboard or accessory.

      1. “She’s a child, not a billboard or accessory.”

         That’s how I feel exactly. My opposition isn’t the b–bs, it’s using your child as a billboard. Happens a lot with infant clothing, everything from “All mommy wanted was a backrub” to any of a number of jokes about the parent’s occupations, hobbies, or favorite tv shows. We generally avoid slogans of any kind on our kid’s clothing.

         Confidently nursing in public is sufficient for getting out the point that you’re pro-bfing. If you want a shirt to further advertise it, then get one for yourself.

         1. Actually, “all mommy wanted was a backrub” is pretty funny. Though I wouldn’t put my child in a shirt that said it.

   8. To give voice to the other side: The idea behind those shirts is that boobies/breasts are not inherently sexual but instead are a means of feeding a baby and child. Those shirts are a statement that a child is breastfeeding and that it is the natural way to feed. From my perspective, those shirts are not saying, “Hey, I’m a little boy who will one day grow up to oogle boobs” but instead, “Hey, I’m an infant who is breastfeeding!” (i.e. “I had boobies for breakfast”) There is nothing sexual about breastfeeding. The idea that breastfeeding is sexual and that breasts can only be sexual objects harms breastfeeding women because it makes it more difficult to breastfeed in public (and in general) and equates breastfeeding with a sexual act that belongs in the home.

      1. Appreciate the perspective and totally agree that sexulizing the act is wrong and harmful. Can’t really put my finger on why I have opposite take on them. Maybe because the slang comes off as fratty ( is that a word?) and crude? Maybe because my friends have deemed them cute for boys?

         1. I have the same reaction to the baby things about “boobies” as I do about all the breast cancer stuff about “boobies.” It is an excuse for people to wear, say and do things about “boobies” that they couldn’t normally get away with but can get away with because it is to promote a cure or breast feeding or whatever. It comes across very juvenile to me. See all the teenage boys wearing “I love boobies” or “save the ta-tas” bracelets. They are allowed to because they are for breast cancer research. But, they are only wearing it because it says boobies. No one is running around with “I love prostates” on their shirts, as far as I have seen.

            1. Ah, I didn’t see your comment, and I just posted about the same thing!

            2. If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck (snicker, snicker, using cute words for body parts) it’s a sexualizing comment. Period.

   9. I saw a onesie that said “birth control failure” and I cracked up laughing . . . but then realized it would be a really awful thing to put on a child.

      1. What?!?!!?

      2. I have seen one that said “All mommy wanted was a massage”…

   10. Sort of related but not really – my favorite slogan I’ve seen on baby clothing: a bib with “these fools put my cape on backwards” :)

       1. Ha! This one is awesome.

       2. My SIL made us one of these, and it was HILLARIOUS!

8. Kat – I heart this site but for the love of all things holy, it may be time for you to find a new tech/web design/maintenance guru. Because this whole problem with comments not loading has gone on for way.too.long :(

   1. What do you mean by “comments not loading”? Is this where there’s a different number at the top of the page and then when you click through? Or is this the one where the replies are in a different place? Or is this some third problem?

      1. Correct – on the main page, it will say that this post has 24 replies, but then when i click through, only 13 show up.

         1. Are you using Firefox or Chrome? We know about the problem and are doing what we can to fix it. Thank you for your patience.

            1. Firefox.

         2. I’m getting this from time to time with IE. It’s been happening for a bit now. I am constantly having to refresh.

            1. Same with Chrome, although now it fixes easily by refreshing – earlier before all the changes I had to go in and clear the cache/cookies/whatever to see new comments.

         3. I get this sometimes with Firefox. The comments usually show up if I refresh the page.

      2. When I try to post I get the message “You are posting too quickly. Slow down.” I know the “you” means all readers, not just moi, but it’s a bit annoying. However this is a first world problem!

      3. I am also still seeing comments load on the totally wrong post, not just in the wrong place. Usually on the immediately proceeding post. It happens about twice or three times a day, but it’s been happening consistently. I notice because I subscribe to comments for every post.

9. I posted this late yesterday, but am hoping for more responses (thanks to those who offered suggestions!). I am having another couple over for dinner and am looking for suggestions on what to make. It will be a weeknight, so I need something relatively easy and that won’t require too much attention, so I can talk to my guests. I would, however, like the meal to feel slightly fancy, but don’t want to break the bank. I’d love to hear about some favorite meals! Thanks!

   1. I love making this when I want to make something fancy that also only takes ten minutes, but you’d have to make sure your guests like fish: http://balancedbites.com/2012/03/easy-recipe-lemon-rosemary-salmon.html

      1. I have a good lemon dill salmon recipe that’s similar to this. I can’t remember the exact proportions for the salt blend and it’s not online, but if this sounds good, let me know and I can look up the measurements tonight (It’s in a cookbook called How to Boil Water, which I recommend if anyone needs a good basics cookbook): coat salmon fillet with vegetable oil (though I use olive oil), sprinkle on the salt blend, which consists of lemon zest, kosher salt, sugar, dill, and a pinch of cayenne pepper, bake skin-side up for like 20 minutes at (i think) 350, and done. It’s so yummy.

      2. I wsa going to suggest ahi w/ mango salsa. you can make the salsa the day/night/weekend before, and then just grill the ahi (indoors or out), which takes minutes, and top with the mango salsa. it goes good with an “asian” slaw on the side (can also be made the night before), whcih is basically just cabbage and carrots (maybe add broc too) dressed with soy sauce, rice wine vinegar, oil (i usually use sesame oil and veg oil), and a bit of whatever spicy sauce you want to add, and then toss with seseame seeds. and you could do some brown rice as well if you want a bit more substance.

   2. I just made something random for a girlfriend last night that was really quick and awesome.

      Mango salsa (chop mango, cilantro, tomato, kirby cucumber, jalapeno, and lime juice – mix and refrigerate for a few hours).

      Rice (prepare wild rice blend according to package instructions and set aside. Saute zucchini/vegetables in oil, mix in some tomato sauce/spaghetti sauce and chopped cilantro, lime juice, salt and pepper. Mix rice in tomato sauce.).

      Chicken (boneless chicken breast cut into 2″ square chunks. Marinate in salt, yogurt, turmeric, coriander, cumin, chili powder and garlic. Grill – I “grilled” on my frying pan with a teensy bit of oil).

      Bon appetit.

      1. mango salsa is amazing. Alone and on fish tacos with guacamole are my favorites.

   3. This Silver Palate recipe is a god send for weeknight dinner parties: http://www.epicurious.com/recipes/member/views/CHICKEN-MARBELLA-SILVER-PALATE-COOKBOOK-1277030

      Combine all the ingredients the night before to marinate, and then put it in the oven when you get home from work. It’s fine to use chicken pieces instead of quarters. Serve with rice/polenta/egg noodles/good bread to soak up the juices, and a green salad and you’re set. It’s delicious, easy, and feels a little fancy.

      1. I’ve always liked that recipe. My church uses it as the entree for a fund raising luncheon. Not only does it have wide appeal, but the recipe can be handed out to both people with great cooking skills and the “I use my oven for extra storage space” crowd, and all the results are good. I like it with new potatoes and a green salad. The recipe is all over the Internet if you don’t have access to the cookbook. The Epicurious site has reviews with useful suggestions and comments.

   4. If your guests eat meat, I threw together a meal last week that was delicious and very simple. Sauté hot Italian sausage, diced tomatoes, and spinach with some garlic. Add about a cup of vegetable or chicken stock. Cook a box of penne (or whatever pasta you prefer), and after it’s cooked al dente, transfer to the pan with the sausage and veggies. Let simmer until the pasta has absorbed most of the stock, serve. It’s got a little bit of heat from the sausage, but isn’t too overwhelming, goes great with a chardonnay, and is DELICIOUS (especially if you grate some fresh pecorino romano over it).

10. Last night, the only things the babies wanted to eat was pizzeria flavor Combos and mac & cheese from the Whole Foods hot bar. Me: “Babies, Combos are a sometimes food. They’re not healthy for dinner. And that mac&cheese is mostly cream. Let me make some chicken and brown rice with salad instead.” Babies: “If you eat anything besides pizzeria Combos and WF mac&cheese, we will make you throw up. If you even look at vegetables, we will make you want to barf.” Sigh. I guess I’ll have to work on instilling good nutrition habits starting closer to week 12. Good thing toddlers and older kids lack the power to actually make you barf when you feed them something they don’t like.

    1. Oh my goodness. I may be like 13 years pregnant, then! :) Cravings are so interesting to me – things people wouldn’t normally touch become cravings during pregnancy.

    2. I hear you! I’m 10 weeks, and yesterday at lunch I went to the cafeteria with intentions to get a salad or at least broccoli to go w/ my mac and cheese craving, and instead got loads of mac and cheese, ribs, and cole slaw… where did that come from? And I basically had pasta and bread for dinner! Vegetables will hopefully reappear in a few weeks.

    3. Weird, my husband is 31 years pregnant. Who knew?

       1. Mazel tov!

    4. Hilarious. I found that I had more aversions than cravings, and the few cravings I did have would switch to aversions without any warning. Just to prepare you – this may last a little longer than week 12. I found that it wasn’t until weeks 14-16 that I was completely out of the woods.

       So happy for you with the twins. I, too, have twins (after IVF) and it’s been an amazing experience. Crazy but amazing. I wish you all the best.

       1. Yeah. I have aversions more than cravings. I haven’t craved anything in particular in a need to have way, but there was a time when the only thing that was appetizing to me were very bland carbohydrate type foods. Pizza combos would made me die. Way too many flavors all at once.

          I’m 14 weeks and its gotten a lot better. And I can stand the idea of coffee again, which is nice.

       2. Same, no cravings, only aversions. To…pretty much everything (coffee, garlic, any sort of vegetable, meat, bread, pasta, rice, anything with flavoring on it, cheese, dairy, etc.) except very dry and salty foods like crackers and top ramen. And juice worked. Occasionally a dry baked potato. It was nice when weeks 14-15 rolled around and I actually felt hungry again.

          Around weeks 22-28 I started to get cravings for guacamole. I interpreted that as needing to eat more (calories) generally, and needing more fat. But, that could just be me putting a healthy spin on things…because really, there hasn’t been a day in my life when I haven’t “craved” guac. :)

          1. We are very similar. I was so shocked that something so innocuous like rice could make me sick, but it did. And pasta could sometimes be tolerated, but only with a little butter and lots of salt. I also found that once I ate something once, it would often come off the list of things I wanted again. So, buttery pasta with salt sounded good one night, but the next day, the thought of it made me feel icky.

             I also loved juice. I never drink juice IRL (;)), but I was drinking a lot of apple juice and lemonade from weeks 6-11. I could always eat fruit, too. Watermelon, pineapple, plums and green grapes were (are) delicious to me

             It is such an odd sensation for food to be such a turn off.

             1. totally! before i was pregnant, i would have thought rice, bread and maybe pasta could be tolerated by almost anyone. But during those weeks I realized that rice has a very strong, specific smell. Same with toast. It was just too overpowering.

                I never drink juice normally either bc i figure its’ just sugar, but juice and lemonade tasted good and it was a way to get some calories in. The human body is so, so strange. Normally i have a big appetite and eat literally everything, so it was bizarre to just not be hungry for weeks…even for things I normally can’t resist, like lasagna and donuts! So weird.

    5. My first trimester was ALL CARBS ALL THE TIME!!!

    6. I’m in week 8 and my cravings have been all over the map. Limeade and onion rings, bring them on. Nice grilled chicken, no thank you. So far, I’m sustaining me and lil’ bit with yogurt, apples, and ice cream.

       1. You ladies are going to get me pregnant by talking about all the foods you crave. Mm… onion rings…

    7. First time it was applesauce, but it had to be ice cold, chunky, all natural applesauce. Second time it was hot wings!!!

    8. Can we please stop with all of the pregnancy symptom comments?

       1. Has someone taped your eyelids open? You can scroll past and read about something else if you don’t like a comment. This thread is CRACKING me up, and I have never been pregnant, and have no intention of being.

          1. I agree. Not pregnant and never plan to be but this thread is highly entertaining. I like hearing about the ladies’ pregnancy journeys. I think (and hope) it has made me more sensitive to issues that I had never really considered before.

       2. Also, why? There are so many types of comments on this blog that I find boring (or sometimes annoying) and I just ignore the ones I don’t care about.

       3. Nope. We can’t.

       4. Because many members of this community have had MCs or fertility problems and these comments on every single thread are difficult to read.

          1. Ok, I am very sorry for anyone who has been through any of those things, but this is not a TTC/MC board, it is just not realistic to expect people to just stop posting any particular category of comments. Pregnancy, children, TTC AND MC have all been common conversation threads on this site for a long time, I am really sorry if any of those upset anyone, but that is just not going to change. :o(

    9. it was peanut brittle for me. that was actually my biggest tip-off that I was expecting child #2!

       1. Dove bars!

11. Question about finances — apologies because I probably won’t get to check back in again today. Further apologies because this definitely falls under “first world problems.”

    What are everyone’s thoughts on accepting a significant amount of money from my parents to pay my rent? I am just starting out in a government job, after a year of unemployment and living at home (recent grad just starting career). I live and work in London, which is notorious for its expensive housing market. My parents are very keen to give me about £1000 a month as “allowance,” which is effectively my rent. (My dad has had some major career/salary successes of his own in the last couple of years so they are fine financially.) They want me to live in a nice place and have some fun money (so not necessarily shove it all in savings, even though I’m actively building those too). I’m currently in a short-term flat with a tempting option to renew for a year. Spacious by British standards, nice area, I can walk to work, modern, has a cleaner, nice roommates, etc. My hesitation is that I COULD afford to live completely independently but it would be in a much crummier place/area.

    Can anyone share similar experiences of whether/when it’s okay to take money from parents for “luxuries”, and if you have advice on the nagging guilt in the back of my mind about it? Should I just gracefully accept it in the spirit it is intended or is my reluctance a gut feeling I should follow?

    1. Can’t say I’m not envious. I live in a very expensive city, my parents are financially well-off, and pay my own rent and all other expenses.

       IMHO- Take the check. Take the check and save as much money as you can.

       I wish I had the parental financial support that is so ubiquitous among 20 and 3osomethings.

    2. If it’s going to be somewhat temporary (a year or two), just until you’re more established and get a raise/promotion/etc., I’d accept. Assuming, that is, that your parents don’t have a history of using money as a way to control their children. If giving you money will mean they feel they can influence what you do with your career, how you spend your free time, whom you date, etc., then I’d pass. But it sounds like your dad is like my MIL. She gives my husband and me money for things because “what will bring me more joy than making my children happy?” (Apparently giving her DIL jewelry and nice purses brings her joy. Yes, I realize how lucky I am.) If you’d need to rely on them indefinitely (for at least 5 years and likely more) then I probably wouldn’t take it. But if they just want to smooth your transition into the adult world, since you sound like you’re appreciative and don’t see it as an entitlement, then I’d enjoy being from a family that can afford this kind of assistance.

       1. I think this is spot on. I wouldn’t plan to live beyond your means longterm, but I think it’s okay to do for a few transition years (I like TBK’s “transition into the adult world” concept). I also would not accept if you know it will come with strings and intense oversight.

       2. +1 – I would never accept the money because I know it would be held over my head at a later date. If you don’t have that concern, go for it. That’s very nice of your parents, and a little extra spending money goes a long way in terms of quality of life and avoiding stress!

    3. If you’d probably inherit this anyway in 40 years or so and it is money they truly won’t miss, enjoy it. If your parent spent this much more on your education or on a family vacation, you’d take it, yes? I think it’s one thing to have a child on the dole who won’t support herself but a different thing to give bells and whistles to a child who is out in the world working.

       I have friends who have gotten downpayment assistance from their parents or a car. They were happy to have the windfall, but treated it as such instead of an invitation to be needy and expect more of the same. If it bothers you a bit, that’s probably a good sign. I read a letter once from a man (in his 40s?) to his trust’s trustee whining about his allowance — you don’t want to be him.

       1. +1 to the first paragraph. My in-laws are very financially comfortable and when I was in grad school they contributed significantly to our mortgage payment. I felt horrible about it for a long time, until my FIL said “look, you’re going to get it anyway. we’d rather give it to you now when you need it and we can have the enjoyment of seeing it put to good use.” (my DH is an only child). I hadn’t thought about it this way, but it gave them a lot of pleasure to be able to help us when we needed it for what they considered to be a very good reason (my education and future career).

          Now, we are also lucky enough that they do not attach “strings” to this money, so I we don’t feel beholden to them in our decision making (any more so than we would anyway just because they are our parents). If there were strings attached, we probably wouldn’t have accepted their generosity and would have taken out additional student loans instead.

          1. ugh, typos.

          2. Agreed on the need to watch out for strings. When I faced a rough spot and legitimately needed help, my dad attached LOTS of strings (mostly emotional baggage/blackmail) to his financial assistance.

    4. I don’t have an issue with generous family members. What’s your end goal? Are you in a position that you will get salary increases such that you could afford to live at this level on your own paycheck in a few years? Or is this going to get you used to living beyond your means which could put you in a for a rude awakening one day if the subsidy stops. I don’t think you should guilty about receiving a nice gift, but you need to be honest with yourself about how long you want to rely on that gift.

    5. Take it and be grateful – unless it comes with some type or ridiculous strings attached, of course. It seems like that money is just going to sit in a bank account and not be used by your parents anway, so what’s the downside?

    6. It depends on your relationship with your parents. Knowing mine, if they could afford to give me money, they would, and even now we have ‘arguments’ about whether my retired father getting £1000 per month in pension or I, the lawyer, making four times that, should pay for a family dinner. I think it can be difficult for parents to let go of the financial support and provider role, so chances are your parents *want* to do this and it isn’t like you are asking, they are offering and can afford it.

    7. I think it depends on your relationship with your parents. For me, I’d take it. If my mom could afford it, I think she would love to just buy me an apartment (not an easy feat in NY right now), and honestly I would have zero second thoughts about it. Similarly, my SO’s parents give him a check every so often to pay towards his student loans, and it certainly makes our lives much easier and I am happy they do so. They do not interfere in our lives in any way because of their generosity. But I have friends who are financially aided by their parents and that support sometimes comes with a lot of strings attached so that’s something to consider if you think your parents may fall into that camp. It doesn’t sound like they do though, take the money and be grateful.

       1. Just on balance, I wouldn’t touch that money with a ten foot pole. Because it would give my mother something to lord over me, judge me for where I chose to live, have extra visitation rights to “her” flat, and lord only know what else.

          But this is a complete know-your-parents thing.

       2. I think there’s something different about gift money given “every so often” versus a monthly allowance that enables a different standard of living.

          To that end, I think there’s also a difference between helping pay down loans and funding a nicer apartment….

          1. But it does allow us a different standard of living even if it’s not on a regular schedule… I think that Brant’s flipside is really what it comes down to – her parents would lord it over her, my mom and in-laws don’t. I think there’s also something to be said for people who have a strong urge to make it 100% on their own. Ultimately, I think it still comes down to know yourself and know your parents.

    8. Like TBK said above, if they’re giving you this money without any strings, and truly just want to give it to you, I don’t see anything wrong with taking it. I wish my parents could/would pay my bills. Or that anybody else would, for that matter. Doesn’t have to be my parents. Le sigh.

       To ease any nagging guilt, I would try to save as much of it as I could (stay in the cheaper apartment, etc.). This way you still stay within your means so you’re not affected if they can no longer give this to you.

       1. Can I just say that a few months ago I posted about asking my parents for help w/ my students loans an everyone told me I am “entitled”?

          —headdesk—

          1. I think the advice here still applies – it really depends on the relationship with your parents. However, OP does say that her parents are offering her money. People here would give very different advice if she was asking her parents to fund a lifestyle she couldn’t afford on her own.

          2. I think the difference is that you were asking for the money, rather than it being offered to you.

          3. Because you were asking them for money. Here, OP’s parents have offered. Key difference.

          4. The fact that you don’t understand the difference between asking and accepting is funny. Asking is super entitled. Just like if you go around to your wedding guests asking for money, it’s really rude. That doesn’t mean if you get a wedding card with money in it you give it back

    9. Take it! My parents still help me and I am doing fairly well for my city. I am 26 with $50k in student loans from grad school – MBA. I never moved back home after college. My parents pay my student loan payment and will transfer me some money every month with a message like “treat yourself”. Their help allows me to be able to build up my savings and contribute more to my 401k. Just remember to always say thank you and let them know how much you appreciate them :)

       I don’t like to tell many people because I have gotten comments from my friends that I am spoiled or need to grow up. I am not spoiled. I have had a job since my 14th bday. I never asked my parents for spending money in high school or college b/c I loved making (and spending) my hard earned money.

    10. I’ll be the outlier and say I think it’s irresponsible. I know it’s nitpicking, but I think accepting money for “fun” items like a random outfit or a dinner out is fine on occasion. I think using parental money to fund necessities is quite another. Once you are out of college and receiving a paycheck, you really should find a way to live within your own means.

        I think it typically signifies an unhealthy dependence on parents, a lack of boundaries from/with parents, or an unwillingness to accept reality. I know those are harsh terms and it’s not always so cut and dry, but it irks me to see young people who accept parent money to “pay the rent/bills/etc” but then still go out most weekends and take vacations. I feel like they’re being dishonest with themselves about what kind of lifestyle they can actually afford and how adult they actually are.

        (It’s Friday. I should NOT be this crabby.)

        1. I’m coming down on this side as well – not that it’s completely irresponsible, but that I don’t know if you are doing yourself any favors by accepting their help without first trying to make it on your own.

           You have a job, you have a paycheck. I think it’s your own best interest to figure out how to survive on what you are making. I think it helps to set an internal guide about what kind of living you are ACTUALLY earning, versus what your parents may be subsidizing. Because most people have a tendency to live up to what they are earning (or beyond) and it could be hard to wean yourself off their support in the future.

           And yes – it’s probably going to be a big step down from where your parents are at, but that’s life. Your parents probably had to struggle and scrape when they were younger, and are probably better for it. Give yourself the chance to have that same experience. They’ll still be there if you need them, right?

        2. I am inclined to agree with you. A one-time gift for a down payment is one thing but continued financial assistance seems irresponsible.

           1. +1. If someone gave me $1000/month I’d totally save it for a down payment.

        3. I see your point, and I could see how it would get very easy to rely on the money as opposed to it being an extra. On the other hand, I don’t see a real difference between this assistance, assuming the duration is limited (as I said above), and helping out a kid who’s in grad school. My dad gave me money most semesters when I was in law school, and I’d be lying if I said a portion of it didn’t go toward going out with friends or doing some traveling in the summers. I see an entry-level job as similar to grad school in a way. I do think if you rely on your parents for a portion of your income on an indefinite basis (e.g., you have no raise on the horizon, aren’t in a field/position where you’re likely to ever make enough to fund your current lifestyle, etc.) that you’re not setting up a sustainable model.

        4. +1,000,000

           At some point, one needs to grow up and live on one’s own, according to one’s own means.

           You might want to check out the chapter on “Economic Outpatient Care” in the “The Millionaire Next Door,” which makes a strong case that accepting subsidies from parents tends to economically cripple adult children: http://www.amazon.com/Millionaire-Next-Door-Surprising-Americas/dp/1563523302/ref=tmm_hrd_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&sr=&qid=

        5. +1. Learning how to live within your means and cut out fun stuff you can’t afford is unfortunately a huge part of adulthood. I understand there’s a huge difference between asking and graciously accepting and I wouldn’t call the OP spoiled or entitled for accepting the gift but I think saying no will ultimately make you a lot more mature and grown up and teach you important lessons about budgeting and money management.

        6. Agreed. I think an occasional chunk of money is fine, if they are fine giving it and it doesn’t alter your relationship. For example, they could gift you an amount to help pay for loans, or to help you buy a car, or down the road, a house, or maybe for a future child’s college. But I do think there’s something off about accepting money on a regular basis for certain basic necessities, unless it’s an emergency.

           So, like, having your parents help you with loan payments while you’re unemployed, with the understanding that it will stop once you get a job- eh, that seems alright. But taking a large allowance every month to allow yourself luxuries like, e.g., a doorman apartment, or whatever – that seems kind of immature. I agree that learning to live within your means is a huge part of being a grown up and its a valuable lesson. Doing that has helped me define what are “necessities” and what are “luxuries” as well as what my priorities are – would I rather eat well, or be able to take a vacation? Live without roommates or go out drinking every weekend? Its important to have to make these decisions. those choices have also helped me to figure out what my career goals are – how much money i’m comfortable with, and what i can live without in order to afford the career I find fulfilling. Not having to worry too much about money could, for example, end up hurting you if it doesn’t push you to seek a promotion or leave for a better paying job.

    11. I’ll bite. So my parents paid for my two degrees but my first job didn’t pay very much, while I was living in a big city and my parents wanted me to be safe. So my parents gave me a monthly “allowance” for the first year to help with the gap and I probably ended up using it more for “fun expenses” because I was also working a lot at the time but it really helped me out and I really appreciated it. Once my salary went up, they stopped (on my request).

        I will agree with the other commenters that it depends on your relationship with your parents – mine never held it over my head. They could afford to help me and wanted to and honestly, it was more of a battle to say no to them than to just accept it and live a little more comfortably than I could otherwise

    12. When I think about what I would want to be like as a parent, and how excited I would be for my kid to really ‘launch’, I really understand how they would be happy to do something like this for you – it would feel like their success too. This is assuming, of course, that your parents are not the ‘give you money to control you type’, in which case, run for the hills. If 1000 is too much, you could bring the number down to something you feel comfortable with.

    13. I’d take it. My parents gave me a small amount during law school and called it my grocery budget. It was enough that it was really a grocery/bar review/occasional treat budget, but I was and am grateful because I didn’t have to worry about pennies as much while I was studying. My parents are financially comfortable and I know it made them happy to be able to do this.

12. Re: finding a therapist

    Someone suggested you make sure the therapist is really listening (and it is super obvious if they’re not).

    I’ve also found that taking the first session or two to ask them about their practice and philosophy to be useful. I had one therapist that would ask me strange, seemingly out-of-left-field questions but wouldn’t provide any explanation for why we were talking about those things. I had to find a different therapist because I don’t like being kept in the dark. The therapist I see now (for CBT) checks in with me regularly, actively listens, and explains why he’s asking about something or why the actions he encourages me to take are beneficial to me.

    1. Thank you! I actually had my first session with the psychiatrist last night (had already met with the MFT last week) and could tell immediately that it wasn’t a good fit, so I guess my decision was easier than I expected. I’ll keep this advice in mind as I continue seeing the MFT and re-evaluate in a few months if I think I need to make a switch.

       1. Good luck! I had a weird experience in that I’ve seen a whole bunch of therapists, many as a child/teenager, most of the time because my parents sent me, not of my own volition, but I remember meeting the first therapist I actually liked. I was on my mom’s insurance and we called to get names of in-network therapists that specialized in what I needed (therapy for eating disorders, which interestingly often falls under ‘addictive behavior’), and the second I met her I knew she would be great. And I was right!

          I remember saying at one point, “Well, I don’t want to psychoanalyze my mom…” and she said, “Why not? Who’s stopping you? You can psychoanalyze anyone you want in here.” She would call me out on destructive or inaccurate self-criticisms I had, but otherwise made me feel comfortable in things that I felt/thought.

    2. I think what you should also watch for is if your therapist pulls out the DSM within the first visit … run away. Run away fast.

13. I’m interning for a wonderful company this fall, but since I still have a full year left in school, I feel as though I need to start looking for a summer internship (already! I know, some companies start 9 months out). A competing company is offering a great program. Would it be strange of me to apply? Since the industry I’m in is an oligopoly, it’s a pretty small number of companies, so I’m not sure if the competitor would think it’s weird. To make it a little clearer, say I’m an intern at Pepsi, and I’m now looking for a summer internship with Coke. Would it look like I was jumping ship?

    1. Not weird. Apply and get as much experience as you can in different companies in the industry.

       1. Thanks. I was just concerned that they would see it as a negative that I didn’t return to Pepsi, but thanks for assuring me. It’s very strange the way the interning world works nowadays.

    2. In a lot of industries, people move back and forth. Experience at another of the few big competitors in my industry is seen as a plus.

       1. Yes, that’s true. It’s always hard to know when to move though, because it’s so uncertain. A 3-month internship could end with a full-time offer, or an offer to come back for the next semester/season, but it just as easily couldn’t. I’m in the camp that I’d rather have an offer from another company in hand, and a program secured, than play the waiting game. But then again, I’m a little concerned it makes me look flighty. I’m glad that there’s evidence to the contrary.

    3. I’d apply. We hire former competitor’s interns, and some of our former interns have gone on to work for competitors. What if Company B is a better fit for your career goals and you like the culture more? Best case scenario, you get full time offers from both when you graduate and can make a decision informed by your experiences.

       1. Brilliant point, thanks. The company I’m about to work for now has a very VIBRANT and distinct culture, so that’s another reason to have a plan B in case I’m not colorful enough.

14. I’ve been in my current position about two months (corp tax) and it’s a step up from my previous position. I’ve posted recently about my job if you are wondering whether I’m the same person or not.

    Anyway, I came in this morning to find some review notes from my supervisor on my desk. As I’m reading through them, I’m like you have got to be kidding me. I am a freaking idiot. These are totally rookie mistakes. I’m sure he thinks I’m an idiot. So my question is – when I give him the revised documents, is it okay to acknowledge that my mistakes were totally stupid? I just want him to know that I realize they were stupid mistakes.

    1. No, don’t put yourself down, especially if the mistakes are easily rectified. Just be more careful in reviewing your own work.

    2. Thank him for the feedback and don’t make those mistakes again. No need to fall on your sword and over-apologize.

    3. Acknowledge (once–no need to grovel) and also communicate your plan to prevent these mistakes in the future: task checklists, proofreading checklists, whatever.
       Great resource: www (dot) askamanager (dot) org — lots of useful info re workplace skills.

    4. If they really seem that bad to you, I’d avoid drawing more attention to them and just concentrate on ensuring they are a one-off departure from otherwise strong delivery.

    5. Thank you all for your opinions. I am not used to getting my work back with so many changes so it makes me feel really bad and discourages me. Everything here is new to me so hopefully as time goes on I’ll make less and less mistakes.

       1. Being new is a terrible feeling! I am three months into the dream job I’ve always wanted but the learning curve is really steep and it feels uncomfortable. Love what LizNYC said below, it makes sense. You are probably being harder on yourself than an objective person would be.

    6. I’m not a lawyer, but I did start a new position earlier this year. In addition to what other commenters said, also realize that what may be clouding your mind is that you’re still getting used to your new position (new company?) and so that’s why you may have missed more. When I first started out here, my brain was trying to process so many new things (where’s the bathroom? what’s the process for this again?) that even job-related things I had down pat seemed extra difficult. You’ll get yourself right soon enough. Just remember to not be too hard on yourself.

    7. Take it as a lesson and move on. Prove yourself next time and shoot to impress. Try to show that you double checked for your previous mistakes (ie checklists, notes to yourself, etc).

15. test

16. Does anyone have tips for dealing with pregnancy acne? I am so embarrassed about how my face looks like a 15-year-old version of myself. I know it’s temporary, but still. Should I go at it with facewash or with makeup?

    1. Not sure what acne treatments pregnant ladies can safely use but good skincare hygiene is important. Use super gentle cleansers so that your face doesn’t overproduce oil, such as Cetaphil, maybe invest in a Clarisonic and moisturize to regulate your oil production. Use makeup if it makes you feel better but gentle cleansing and consistent moisturizing is so important!

       1. I got a clarisonic. It has been awesome!

    2. Check with your doctor before you start using lots of products. I seem to remember topical use of dilute tea tree oil as a good spot treatment while pregnant, but that was a while ago.

    3. In terms of gentle cleansers, maybe try Murad? Their environmental protection line is really gentle and uses vitamins A, C, and E, I believe, and don’t irritate skin at all. It’s pricey, but (I think) worth it.

       I’ve never tried them, but I have friends that swear by oil cleansers, specifically DHC Deep Cleansing Oil.

       1. I think vitamin A is on the “forbidden” list while pregnant. It’s been awhile since I was pregnant though, so I might be misremembering.

          1. Oops, then never mind! I am just biased because I love Murad everything. And I somehow thought that you were post-baby, which makes no damn sense upon rereading the OP’s comment. It’s Friday and there isn’t enough caffeine in the world…

             Anyway, Murad also has an Acne-specific cleansing/toning line that is supposedly really amazing, but I agree with mascot above–if you’re not sure, definitely check with your doctor.

    4. Thanks everyone! I’ll talk to my doc about facewash.

17. Yesterday’s Rapturist article link and some other links I think I got from here got me thinking about early retirement/extreme saving and frugal living vs. the reality for most of us commentors here.

    Has anybody tried living on 15% of their take home and successfully paid off $160k in loans, etc? or anywhere along the spectrum?

    1. I tried and I have friends who tried. Honestly, there is a point where frugality becomes stupid (“penny-wise and pound foolish”) and actually annoys other people (“If you hate cleaning so much, get a housekeeper. You can afford it!”). I used to live on 35% of my take home pay and I now live on about 60% of my take home and I’m so much happier.

       I think I could do extreme frugality if I had a strict 9-to-5 job that didn’t wear me out at the end of the day or I had a similarly-frugal partner who did a lot of the day-to-day living work (cooking, cleaning, laundry, shopping, planning, etc.).

    2. Yes. I paid off $160k in student loans on a big law salary in 2 years while living in a major city. We lived on my spouse’s $50k (before taxes) salary and put all of my take home pay (i.e., my pay after maxing out my 401k, paying taxes and buying insurance). It was exhausting and not fun. We didn’t use heat or AC (but we live in a moderate climate), hung all of our clothes to dry, cooked everything from scratch and grew some of our food, had no cable, used public transportation, reduced unnecessary insurance coverage and phone plans, didn’t go on vacation, etc. I agree with k-padi that it is much easier with a less demanding job because chores consumed most of my free time. Now that my student loans are paid off and I no longer live in fear of repaying them if I lost my job, we probably spend about $1k of my take home per month plus my spouse’s salary but save the rest. Besides the obvious vendor of becoming debt free, I think I also benefited from realizing how much money I spent on things that I didn’t really value, just because I was used to it.

    3. I have lived on 40% of my take-home pay while paying off six-figure debt. It was totally, totally worth it and I would do it again in a heartbeat.

    4. What’s the rapturist ? Can you link to it? I googled “rapturist” but didn’t find anything and it sounds interesting. Thanks!

       1. Me too. All I found were things about The Rapture.

       2. Sorry about that. Recalled the name wrong. Someone posted this yesterday:
          http://www.raptitude.com/2013/04/how-much-of-your-life-are-you-selling-off/

    5. Before we got married, DH lived on about 20% of his take-home pay. He got a job out of undergrad that paid very well, but he lived in a cheap apartment with roommates and drove the (paid off) car he had throughout college–when his peers were all using their big paychecks to buy new cars.

       He didn’t have student loans to pay off, but he socked money away in savings and retirement. So much so that (1) he bought me a gorgeous engagement ring that cost the same as a small car at age 24 (2) he shoved so much money into his retirement account from ages 22-26 that when, at 27, he went back for his MBA, he already had over 100k stashed away in retirement. Those habits were so instilled in him (and now, me) that we live pretty modestly given our income. We still aggressively throw money into retirement and prior to that, we paid down all of DH’s $70k student loan debt in the 24 months after he graduated from his program.–and he was unemployed for 5-6 of those months.

    6. Is there anyone not in BigLaw who has successfully done this in DC? Cost of living here is so ridiculous that even living cheaply seems to eat up a good 60%-80% of takehome.

       1. I don’t live off quite that low a percentage of my income, but fairly close, and I live in DC and am not in big law or an equivalent field. It takes hard decisions. I had a roommate for years; I bought a condo at the low end of the market; I bought a new car that isn’t luxury; I don’t have expensive cable; I don’t take expensive vacations; I don’t take on expensive hobbies. But you know what? I love my life. I love the fact that I take joy in reading books from the library and walking or hiking for exercise. I don’t take huge vacations, but I like the ones I do take. I’m happy with the decisions I made, so it doesn’t feel like a sacrifice. The best part is the freedom. I’ve been working for 10 years, and the good financial habits I established during those years (paying off debt, refusing to take on new debt outside a mortgage, fully funding all retirement accounts, getting a healthy emergency fund, etc) give me freedom. I’m so far ahead of many of my age-mates that it’s unbelievable. I don’t mean that as a brag; my habits give me the freedom that if I were to lose my job, I would be very unhappy but I could live on savings until I found a new one. If I wanted to drastically ramp up my standard of living, I could (and I do in certain spending categories). I watch my friends who can’t do what they want because of their debt, and it just makes them so unhappy. There’s no point in living at a drastically low percentage of income if you are going to be miserable the entire time. There’s also no point in living at a drastically high percentage of income if you end up miserable.

18. He didn’t seem at all annoyed when I brought the revised info. to him. Maybe I’m just really hard on myself. To look on the bright side – I guess it’s good to have high expectations for yourself.

    1. Yes, but as other commenters said above, be careful about telling others at work when you feel you fell short of your own high expectations. People put more stock in what you tell them about yourself (especially when it’s negative) than they do in what they actually observe about you. If you say you really screwed up, people will start to think of you as a person who screws up, no matter what they may have thought about your work if you’d never said a word.

19. Not a question, just want to toot my horn a little because I don’t have many people I can talk about work with in real life…

    A client just left the office after a closing we’ve been working on. He’s a really interesting guy, and as he was leaving he stopped to tell me that he looks forward to working with me in the future, and that he’s excited to have such an efficient person on his legal team. I feel really, really good! And it’s Friday!

    1. Congrats!

    2. YAY!! What great news on a Friday! And good for you for being a rock star!! ;o)

20. Anyone tried washing the Skirt in the washing machine then laying out flat to dry? Experiences good or bad appreciated.

    1. That’s how I usually wash them (I even sometimes dry them on delicate – don’t tell Nordies) I only really take them to the drycleaners if they need some sort of alteration like a seam needs fixing or the lining has torn and I figure – might as well get it drycleaned too! But yeah – I don’t think its really “dryclean only” – just be careful with them and you’ll be fine.

    2. Hah, I’ve just thrown them into the washer and the dryer, never bothered to check the tag or thought about it so didn’t even realize this was “wrong”.

    3. Yes. I wash on cold and delicate and dry flat. It seems fine.

    4. thank you for asking! I finally bought two of them (this year’s Skirt looks good on me, last year’s did not) so this is so helpful.

       1. Yes I bought my first (and second) this year too! I had never tried them on before so I can’t comment on the change, but I love the current version. I was also wondering about washing because I basically never make it to the dry cleaners.

          1. I did as well! I mentioned this on another post a few days ago, but I bought it in plum and this beautiful forest green, and I can’t wait for fall. It fits beautifully, but I was surprised that I had to buy petite sizes, because I’m 5’6″ and have never fit into petites before.

    5. I have a question about the Skirt – mine are a few years old but I love them dearly. Problem is that I live in a very hot humid climate and I think they are too heavy to wear from April to October. Am I off base? Are there lighter versions I don’t know about? TIA

       1. I live very close to Houston = hot and humid…and have been rocking them this summer without problems, not sure if the summer version is lighter than the other versions sold?

21. What is this “report comment” feature? Anyone else seeing it?

    1. Yup — Kat explains on the Weekly News Update post; there are some tech changes around here!

22. The links within the post aren’t working again in google chrome…

    1. What do you mean, the links within the post aren’t working? That if you click the word “necklace” above (which is hyperlinked to a bit.ly URL) the URL doesn’t open? Or something else? Please take a screenshot and report it to the tech team via the link below the comment box. Thank you!

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