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Updated: Oct 31, 2018 220 Comments · by

Frugal Friday’s Workwear Report: Slit Pencil Skirt

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Yellow Work Skirt: Loft Slit Pencil SkirtOur daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices. What a lovely yellow pencil skirt! A bright, almost neon yellow can be great for work, particularly when paired with gray. Try it with a gray tee and a longish gray cardigan (like this one or this one), or of course with a simple gray blazer and gray tee. The skirt is $69 full price, but right now you can get 30% off everything if you sign up for Loft emails. (They'll send you the code.) Loft Slit Pencil Skirt Here's a plus-size option. P.S. Ann Taylor is offering 50% off everything and free shipping with code CYBER50 through 4/18 at 3am EST. Seen a great piece you'd like to recommend? Please e-mail tps@corporette.com. (L-6)

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Comments

  1. fashion challenged

    Is it only light grey that goes well with navy, or any color grey as long as it’s not too dark that you can’t tell them apart? This would be for interviews, presentations, major meetings, so I want it to look sharp rather than something I can get away with.

    • MJ

      I think this depends on your coloring, but for many people who look good in navy, gray will not be the most flattering options to be near your face (say, for a shell), if it’s a darker gray that doesn’t have much blue in it.

      I would pick either a very light silver/dove gray, or a medium gray, but not a charcoal gray, unless the charcoal was closer to slate or a battleship-type gray. Essentially, you would want a light gray or a gray with bluish, not black, undertones.

      Hope that helps!

      • fashion challenged

        Thanks MJ. What kind of coloring looks good in navy/ doesn’t look good with gray near the face?

        • meme

          Related: can anyone suggest a good resource for learning about “my colors” in general?

        • anon

          I have very pale skin with yellow undertone, auburn hair — generally brighter/warm colors like a clear aqua, coral, butter or goldenrod yellow, most purples, bright blue, bright green suit me, so muddy colors or drabs like most greys do not. (A “clear spring” in color analysis.) You can mooch around on the internet for various theories of “your colors,” or just really look at your face when you wear different colors and see which colors make you “come alive” and which make you look sick/drab/washed out.

          • anon

            mean to say “I am an example of someone who looks good in navy but not most grey near my face.”

        • Anonymous

          Most Winters look good in grey and navy. I assume very fair skinned and light haired types might look good in navy but not in grey.

          • Zelda

            Winter here. Definitely look good in navy and grey (almost all shades, other than the ones with yellow undertones).

      • Anonymous

        Alternatively, you can avoid the “gray next to face” issue with a chunky necklace. I’m very pale so light colors makes me either look washed out or naked, but breaking up the line from my face to chest with a statement necklace makes a light top look more normal.

    • Anonymous

      I would go for a very light grey, or another colour (pale blue, ivory) altogether.

      • Ellen

        Yay! Fruegel Friday’s! I love Freuegel Friday’s and this pencil skirt! My tuchus can FINALLY fit into my size 2 Calvin Klien pencil skirt today, but I do NOT want to have to bend over or squat until I loose another 2 pound’s!

        For spring, I love this YELLOW color, and other color’s like PINK (the manageing partner perfer’s red) but I would NOT wear it past Labour day. Rosa said she wanted one kind of like this so I will show it to her later today.

        I am goeing to see mom and dad tonite — I will take the LIRR out to see them with the manageing partner, tho he will stay on the train to go to the Hamton’s and his new house we will visit next month. He already told me he wants me in my WHITE Bikini — FOOEY b/c I will NOT have a tan in May and I am VERY pale skinned to begin with! I do NOT understand why men like me in White. I think a Blue BIKINI would be better, but I have to follow order’s with the manageing partner b/c some cleint’s may also come to visit!

        Anyway, happy weekend to the HIVE!

        • Mary Alice

          Ellen, try and be a little independent from time to time, and not pander to the “manageing” partner, who clearly entertains lurid thoughts when it comes to you. What kind of boss dresses you for events, down to what color bikini you should be wearing? And both the WC judge and that other guy who you work with ought to be brought up to the EEOC on sexual harassment charges. You need to bring this up at the next partners’ meeting and see about breaking out of this sexual conundrum you find yourself in. These days women must fight to maintain their autonomy, and to preserve their status as equals in this male-dominated working world.

          • Anon

            But MARy Alice, she is tryeing to find a HUSBAND and men like her in White! FOOEY

    • AnonInfinity

      I think any gray goes with navy. In fact, today I am wearing a dark gray blouse with a navy skirt, and I think it looks great. I think I look good in dark gray, though (and jewel tones, generally).

    • Anonymous

      I have medium auburn hair, very pale skin, and hazel-green eyes. I look great in navy — makes my skin look creamy and my eyes look greener. Light gray washes me out and darker grays just don’t do anything for me. I’m always better with a jewel tone near my face, although black provides enough contrast with my coloring that it works pretty well for me.

  2. Anonymous

    I’m looking for skinny jeans for casual wear. I usually wear Old Navy Rockstar jeans and love them, but lately ON has been terrible about keeping sizes in stock online or in store (where I live at least) and the few pairs I have are wearing out. I like the Rockstars because the fabric is thin and really soft and stretchy. I hate feeling constricted in jeans. Can anyone think of any similar brands to try? Thanks and TGIF!

    • Relaxed Skinny

      I’ve had good luck with the relaxed skinny jeans at Loft. They are stretchy and roomy in the waist but have skinny legs.

    • Anonymous

      I love my Express jean leggings as an upgrade to my Old Navy rockstars. The fabric is extremely stretchy and soft, but doesn’t get baggy. The mid-rise is really nice – goes past the muffin top but not ridiculously high. Size up from Old Navy and beware the lower legs are skinner than ON (I like that because my legs are way thinner than my hips, proportionally but not everyone will).

    • Anon

      The Lucky Brand Brooke style. Super soft and stretchy. Don’t stretch out. It looks from online like they have multiple styles – I have the jegging.

    • Delta Dawn

      I have some Kensie jeans that are just like the Rockstars but softer and stretchier. They came in my Stitch Fix box a year or so ago. They are more expensive than ON, but I have really loved them as an upgrade to the Rockstars.

    • Maddie Ross

      More expensive, but the AG Legging Jeans are great. Super soft and stretchy.

    • Anonymous

      I actually really like Target’s Denizen brand for jeans. I stay away from the juniors cuts because they’re too low for me, but they have a nice selection of low, mid, and high rise cuts. Also they have long and short lengths in store, which are great for petites like me! :)

    • Emmer

      Uniqlo skinny jeans! Way superior to the Rockstars, in my opinion, and still very stretchy.

    • Anonymous

      I have a pair of Kohls Vera Wang line skinny jeans that are exactly that. And cheap :)

    • Meg Murry

      Finishing off our taxes that we have been procrastinating on for way too long, crying over how much money I am handing over to the IRS while drinking heavily, or happily pulling the trigger on the handful of “I need to wait until we see the final total on our tax bill” items that are sitting in electronic shopping carts around the internet taunting me if the bill is significantly under the amount I have earmarked for it.

      And hopefully getting to go outdoors and see some actual sunshine for the first time in weeks.

      • Weekend plans?

        Fingers crossed for a smaller bill! I’m off to London for a conference on Monday so finishing up my presentation and preparing some work for the train journey. This is overly optimistic, I’ll just drink tea and read a novel (Elena Ferrante’s Naples no. 4). Staying with my ILs so need to pick up a small present on Saturday as well.

        Would like to get some gardening done as well if the weather holds out.

    • Anonymous

      I’m up in Boston where it is supposed to be gorgeous weather Sunday and (maration holiday) Monday. Taking the kids downtown to do an informal family photo shoot and do some outdoor shopping/dining, then while DH has to work (mwhaha) I’m taking the minis to cheer on the runners on Monday. Not downtown but in our suburb that is along the route.

      • Bostonian

        It’s my favorite weekend of the year!!!!! Enjoy the marathon events…. my family will, too :)

      • Anonymous

        I went to college & law school in Boston and love and miss Patriot’s Day Weekend/Marathon Monday so much…enjoy, Bostonians!

    • Betty

      Earlier this week, I hit my breaking point. Over the past three months, my husband has been in the hospital (inpatient) for over 30 days. At work, I have been negotiating the deal for a new client and had a marathon negotiating session (9 hours) earlier this week. And we have two little kids. My husband has been home and doing really well for over three weeks now. He booked me a night in a really nice hotel in our town, a massage at the spa tomorrow and I’m getting my haircut tomorrow afternoon. We are going out to dinner tonight and then I have the night and most of the day tomorrow to myself. And I cannot wait. Hoping to recharge and get my feet under me a bit.

    • lsw

      My baby shower! And planning to do some gardening, also of the outdoors/flower-related variety. It’s supposed to be sunny and in the 70s here after a few weeks of a weird winter redux, so I’m psyched.

    • Anonymous

      This weekend is the calm before the family-road-trip storm that is next weekend. Nine hours each way through the Southern US, wish me luck and good weather.

    • TulipsAreNear

      Garden work which will probably head into the annual heated discussion around the rabbit warren we have in our backyard. Two years straight I have held husband from removing these sweet rabbits but they really did a number on my garden last year.

      Maybe a nice stroll along Lake Michigan.

      • Lilly

        My mother solved her rabbit problem by planting lettuce and such right by where the rabbits’ den was. Sacrificial diversionary lettuce. They left her garden alone, but it’s worth noting that her garden had a some distance from the rabbits’ den, so they seemed pretty content to munch away close to home rather than journeying to her garden.

    • CKB

      Nothing exciting here. I have a couple of workouts on the schedule. Normal weekend errands and chores. Hopefully will get some yard work in. Maybe a date with dh. And some inside gardening too.

      The weather is supposed to be nice so maybe we’ll get outside somewhere with the kids too. There are lots of pathways in our city that we haven’t explored.

    • CountC

      I’m adopting a dog tonight!! A 12 year old, toothless, mostly blind dog, Rosco. He weighs twelve pounds and with all of the cats, he will be the lightest in the house. I am so excited! I’ll be setting him up in the house tonight, showing him the lay of the land, making sure he is comfortable, etc.

      I have a 5k at my law school tomorrow, then the normal cleaning, longer training run, and riding. I’m helping out a girlfriend with her hair for a gala tomorrow afternoon as well. Other than that, I am hanging with my animals!! The new pup will go to the barn with me and anywhere else I can take him. Obviously, that will include a trip to Petsmart to get him lots of goodies (and the cats LOTS of treats).

      • Aurora

        Yay new dogs! I adopted an older dog as well but to she she will always be my puppy (because my dog, like your, is small so she’ll always be puppy sized to me). Enjoy getting lots of love from your new family member and thanks for being a good person and adopting a dog most folks wouldn’t even look at.

  4. Multi-level Marketing Insanity

    Ladies,

    I am at my wit’s end with the multi-level marktings. I tried to kindly point out to my friend the other day that perhaps the margins were a bit high, if she was constantly bragging about jewelry and trips and cars that she and her colleagues were receiving for selling products to friends. I got back n attack about how I was disrespecting her business and holding her back from her success. I apologized, because even though I tried to explain that I was not disrespecting _the products_, perhaps the margins were high, but she kept saying I was not being supportive of her business goals. She literally was incapable of seeing that profiting off her friends _might_ be offputting.

    I am sure some of you are thinking, “What’s your problem? Scroll on, friend.” I am not sure whether to unfollow or what–more than a handful of friends are doing R+F, and it’s a huge part of my FB feed, to the point that if I unfollowed, I would never see my friends’ kids updates and whatnot.

    /endrant

    • Anonymous

      “I tried to kindly point out to my friend the other day that perhaps the margins were a bit high, if she was constantly bragging about jewelry and trips and cars that she and her colleagues were receiving for selling products to friends. I got back n attack about how I was disrespecting her business and holding her back from her success. I apologized, because even though I tried to explain that I was not disrespecting _the products_, perhaps the margins were high, but she kept saying I was not being supportive of her business goals. ”

      I wouldn’t engage at all. Why can’t you scroll on by? You don’t have to unfollow them, just ignore the posts. Or, could you simply ask your friends to take them off their advertising list (if such a thing exists)? I don’t know what I did but I have 2 friends that do MLM, and I declined some invites/asked FB to stop showing me posts and their kid photos still show up, just not nearly the volume of MLM.

      I did have one acquaintance that drove me crazy with MLM (to the point of spammy messages as well as the posts), and I just hid all her posts. She wasn’t a good enough friend for me to care.

      • Anonymous

        I checked and I think what I did was “hide post: “see fewer posts like this”” versus unfollowing. Couldn’t hurt to try?

    • Anonymous

      It bugs me too, but mostly because they brag about money.

      But the margins don’t seem too high. I mean, as a lawyer, I want my friends to send me their work, and I will make an hourly rate off of them. Of course, I don’t brag about how much money I make on social media. I know how many figures of income most of my friends who sell R+F make (or at least the ones who make a lot).

      I don’t think trying to “kindly point out” that you don’t like her business is the answer!

      • Kids

        Out of curiosity – what DO people selling R + F make? I have a few friends that have started selling that particular product, and one is a former friend from BigLaw. I think she may have left to stay home and sell RF, but I’m curious as to whether she’s actually bringing home any cash (or it’s all rewards, free products etc.).

        As for the OP, I just wouldn’t engage. I don’t like the MLM stuff, but I don’t see it any differently than my friends in real estate who post listings on FB. I’m not looking to buy commercial or investment properties, so I just scroll by.

        • Aunt Jamesina

          Most selling MLM stuff make peanuts. The people who make significant amounts are at the top of the chain and make their money through recruiting others below them, not through selling the products. A woman I know from high school and her husband made $170k together through Shakeology this year. How do I know? They posted their tax return on Facebook, OF COURSE.

          • TulipsAreNear

            That’s super tacky but at the same time a great marketing pl0y to get more SAHMs in their pyramid!

          • Aunt Jamesina

            Suuuper tacky. And they’re doing well now (they also live in a fairly LCOL area), but they don’t get any sort of retirement or medical benefits, and the *really* scary thing to me is that if this company fails, they lose all of their income sources. They keep calling themselves “business owners”, but NOPE.

        • Anonymous

          Most of my friends seem to make a few hundred dollars a month. So, nice spending money (or a little extra to throw at student loans, as many of them do) but nothing that is going to support a family. I know someone who is really high up in Shaklee (sp?) and she brags about having a six figure income.

        • Anonymous

          A friend of mine makes SEVEN FIGURES selling R+F. She posted about it online. Her husband quit his job. They just hang out and travel all day long. But, like you said, she’s at the very top of the chain. She got in long before I heard anyone else selling it, and she posted about it constantly. She has about one million people selling below her because she posted them all on Facebook.

          I’m 50% annoyed and 50% jealous. Or something.

    • Clementine

      I share your rage. I almost lost my poop when a high school friend told me that I should quit my job and sell candles or oils or something. She then actually said, ‘well, my family is important so I can’t BEAR to be away from them like you’, implying that because because I work outside the home, I am a bad mother. I chose to not respond.

      I’ve chosen the attitude, ‘good for you, not for me.’

      • Ugh

        Wow – that’s a friend issue, not an MLM issue. Ugh. I was told something similar by my SIL. Still bugs me.

      • bridget

        I think a lot of that comes from insecurity (theirs, not yours). For the vast majority of people, MLM is a mildly-profitable hobby. It’s not a situation in which they are realistically going to be “managing a team” in the same way that women in the office do, or earning enough money on a consistent basis to pay the mortgage. It’s not a knock on hobbies that generate pocket money (which can be a great thing for people in certain situations), but it creates a situation in which women are told, and tel themselves, that this is a “job” and “their own business.” Deep down, they know it’s not really true.

    • Anon

      I just don’t engage, ever. It’s like politics and religion.

      These people will discover soon enough that there’s not really any money to be made. Plenty of people try it for 6 months, a year, then realize they’ve tapped out their circle and will quit. (I can think of 3 friends this describes.) How long have your friends been going? If it’s a while, it should end soon, unless you actually have one of those crazy people who advertises their product on the back windshield of their SUV.

    • AKB

      I totally get it. And yes, I scroll past, but isn’t fun to rant a bit?!

      Here’s the thing that makes me crazy – when friends brag about their MLM “careers” allowed them to make money and stay home with their kids. The subtext being that leaving your kids to go to work is awful, and they were able to *escape* the grind by selling products from home. The reason that I’m annoyed is because these same women try to sell their cr@p to me – a working mother. On one hand they are implying that working moms (and their kids) suffer when women work outside the home, and on the other hand they are trying to make money by selling to these same working moms. Sorry but I am not going to work to subsidize your ability to stay at home with the kids.

      • Ugh

        Slow clap to your last paragraph.

        That said, I will admit that most of my friends who do this seem to be supplementing another job? They have kids, but they all have FT jobs (the ones I’m thinking of are not attorneys – government contract work, or education primarily). Maybe the hope is that they can quit the FT eventually?

        • Anonymous

          Interesting. In my facebook friend circle, it is 100% a stay at home mom thing. And there is TONS of judgment about working moms leaving their kids. These people “have it all” because they get to provide for their family while being a “full-time parent”…gag me.

          • Meg Murry

            Ugh. At least in my area the people I know that sell MLM while being full time SAHMs admit that the money they earn from MLM sales is what they use for fun money (pretty much buying MLM stuff from each other) and other splurges like a once a year vacation – not “providing for their family” in the true pay the day-to-day bills way. And the handful that actually do make “pay the bills” money do it by having at least part-time childcare or school age kids that also do aftercare or spend a lot of evenings with babysitters.

            But as Ugh says – the majority of the MLM sellers in my Facebook feed are also teachers or hold other part-to-full time but not 60+ hour a week corporate/lawyer type jobs.

        • Anonymous

          Just to add another anecdata point, in my circle the MLM sellers seem to be half SAHMs and half freelancers–bloggers, fitness instructors, aspiring artists/authors, etc. I would LOVE to quit my job and teach Pilates all day while my husband’s job paid the mortgage, but alas, no husband. I’m not buying eye cream that these women tell me is the reason I look too old to land a man so that they can live the fantasy life.

      • Anon

        OMG, yes. Yes, yes, yes!! I mainly see It Works! on my FB feed, and I do have several friends that are at the top of the pyramid. The products are totally secondary; it’s all about Financial Freedom! Debt Free Is the New Sexy! and on and on. And how their kids are their “why.” Guess what? My kids are MY why, too. Why I get up and go to work every day, which is exactly the same thing they are doing. They spend nights and weekends away from those kids for parties and conferences and team meetings, but act like me going to work and using MY skills (aka not sales!) makes me a terrible mom.

        • AKB

          LOL – yes, the kids are their “why”. That is such MLM speak. Like we go to work for ourselves and f the kids. Meanwhile, I am sweating bullets about the mortgage, college funds, health care, dental benefits, etc. Yeah, my kids are my “why” too.

    • lawsuited

      I also dislike MLMs, but I can’t believe that you thought it was kind or productive to tell your friend that she shouldn’t be enjoying whatever perks of MLM small-business ownership she’s getting because the margins on the products are too high. Insulting the way a friend makes a living is never going to go really well for you. I do legal work for insurance companies and would be bummed if a friend told me that I should feel bad about the car I drive because insurance premiums are too high.

      If you have friends involved in MLMs (and most of us do) your options are to buy the products and smile, or say that you aren’t interested in buying the products if buying the products is going to upset you. If you’re not buying the products, the high margins are not your problem.

      • OP

        For the record, my friend is a very successful business executive, so this is a side business, and it wasn’t an insult.

        I didn’t insult her out of the blue. I made a comment on a post that was excessively braggy about how much money she and her team were making. As someone else pointed out, I shouldn’t have engaged. But she read me the riot act about how I was only allowed to post supportive things when she posted about her business, because….her business.

        My friends and I certainly use FB as a place to debate politics and other things, so a braggy post about how much money her business was making being considered sacrosanct double pissed me off.

        Again, I shouldn’t have engaged.

        • lawsuited

          Perhaps what she meant to say but couldn’t or didn’t, is that you should post supportive things because….you’re her friend. In the context of an FB saying that she was thrilled that her business was going so well, a negative comment from a friend probably was out of the blue. If you felt it was important that she hear your concern about the high margins, privately in person would have been the kinder way to do it rather than in a pretty public FB comment that was probably embarrassing for her. If your intention was to shame your friend with a pretty public FB comment, then that’s not great.

      • OP

        Also, I didn’t insult _how_ she made a living. I actually think the products are great, and told her so, but I did mention that the margins were high. I pointed out that bragging about how much you’re making, while at the same time soliciting customers/orders might be offputting. This is what sent her through the roof.

        • Anonymous

          FWIW, the big perks like cars and trips to Hawaii come from enrolling other people in the scheme. So the customer who buys $100 or so of face products every once in a while is not funding anyone’s trip to Hawaii. The margins on the products are the least of my problems with MLMs.

        • lawsuited

          I assumed that you suggested to her that selling the products to her friends (which is how she makes a living, or a side hustle as it turns out) was off-putting because you said “She literally was incapable of seeing that profiting off her friends _might_ be offputting.”

    • Anonymous

      I feel in the last year the MLM has totally taken over my feed.

      I’ve actually taken a hard look at who I have on Facebook and have unfollowed but not unfriended a number of people. Sure I like seeing the cute pics of friends from high school but when more than 50% of the posts from that person are MLM- I unfollow and then occasionally check their page – like 1x/month or less to see what’s new with them.

      My feed is probably limited to 40ish close friends and family.

      • Glad it is Friday

        This is my feed exactly. I hide everyone who sells stuff, constantly posts only about politics (either side of the aisle), or is negative. Not worth my time.

    • Jitterbug

      I get it. Thing about MLM is that it’s fine if you’re just looking for a little extra money, but once people decide it’s going to be their primary source of income and they’re going to support themselves (or their whole family) on it, they end up being annoyingly aggressive and basically acting like *their* livelihood depends on *your* willingness to spend money on products you don’t want, or would like but can’t afford to spend a ton of money on.

      I try not to fault them too much though. If someone’s having a hard time finding a job and they’re being pressured to take anything they can get regardless of what they’d be doing or how much they’d be getting paid (“any job is better than no job”), they can easily get suckered into these schemes.

      • lost academic

        I get it too, though interestingly, and surely a reflection of the kind of people I’m friends with on FB, the ONLY people involved in R&F I know are already successful and they’re generally crowing about how much extra / consistent additional income this represents. They’re also in a somewhat hazardous profession in which certain kinds of injuries could destroy their primary income for months – so I see why this kind of thing is very attractive. I do think if I saw any more of this on my feed I’d get pretty annoyed. (I see less Jamberry, but it annoys me a LOT more because I consider it useless….)

    • Midwest Mama

      IMO, the sad thing about all of these pushy MLM people is the detriment they do to the good reps and good products. It seems that a lot of these companies’ products are actually good – I’ve heard good reviews of R&F products, Beachbody makes some fun and effective workout programs, Stella and Dot makes pretty jewelry, etc. But the reps who are so aggressive, condescending, etc. turn off so many people and significantly outweigh those who participate for a discount and/or because they truly enjoy sharing about a product they love. Those people are not much different from those of us who come here and promote a great new clothing item, skin care product, etc that we found. THAT was the basis for MLM to begin with, I believe, but it’s gotten really out of control.

  5. Sydney Bristow

    Boden is having 20% off right now and there are also a ton of cute things on clearance right now, including some great looking skirts. I went a little over my clothing budget for the month!

    Can anyone comment on the quality of West Elm furniture? Looking at buying a living room chair. Are certain fabrics better or worse for cat hair? I’ve found a couple of chairs that match the aesthetic I’m looking for (which is more difficult than I anticipated) but haven’t ever bought anything from the store.

    • Sydney Bristow

      More specifically, I’m looking at the Everett chair (or possibly the Livingston or Library). The original goal was a chair and a half, but I haven’t found anything I really like. I’m looking for something sleeker than most chair and a halfs appear. Something with straight lines, possibly oversized, and available in a taupe-y or gray-ish fabric color. I’m definitely open to other suggestions for stores or specific chairs if anyone has any recommendations!

    • DisenchantedinDC

      I have the Tillary sofa in the “performance velvet” or whatever they call it and I love it. I bought it secondhand and it held up to living with a dog and general life really well.

      We looked at some of their tweed fabrics when my friend was couch shopping which I didn’t love. He ended up buying a couch in very similar fabric to mine – the herringbone performance suede/velvet in nickel.

      Don’t buy West Elm without a 15-20% – they have them ALL THE TIME. Even with those, I think they’re pricy for the quality. My roommate got a couch very similar to mine from Wayfair.

    • Person

      I have a West Elm bedroom suite and LOVE it. Probably not super useful for evaluating the quality of the chairs, but we are very happy with the look and quality of the bed and bedside tables.

    • MNF

      I have several pieces of furniture from west elm – couch, two leather chairs, coffee tables. I agree that you should not buy without a big discount – they have sales all the time. With that said, I think the pieces are solid and well priced for what you’re getting. I’m planning to replace my cloth (performance velvet, tweed) pieces with forever furniture in ~10 years when there are no babies/toddlers around.

    • AIMS

      I like West Elm, we have some dressers, a coffee table and tv stand from there. I’d say make sure you try the chair before you buy it. When I was looking at couches there i was surprised by how uncomfortable some of their pieces were.
      We ended up buying a couch from ABC Home and Carpet, from their Bronx outlet, and it was a little more on sale than similar type full price WE but so much more comfy.
      Fyi – if you have a car or can rent a zip car, WE has a furniture outlet at Tanger Outlets in Long Island, as does Pottery Barn, Williams Sonoma and Restoration Hardware. It’s hit or miss, but I’ve gotten some great deals there in the past.

      • Sydney Bristow

        Thanks for the tips! I’m definitely planning to go sit in it. That’s what’s holding me back from ordering from Wayfair.

        • Cat

          Also, before you commit, check out the cushions — I refuse to buy upholstered chairs from Pottery Barn because the underside/backside of the cushions are some random synthetic black material. WTF – then you can’t ever flip them over!

    • Anonymous

      West Elm is OK, but definitely not great quality. I have a bed from there and while it is fine, the customer service was awful – they didn’t fulfill my order due to an inventory issue and just never told me, I had to call multiple times even though they swore they would call me back, etc. I think the best quality vs style combo I’ve seen from a manufacturer is from Room & Board – highly recommend them, if it fits you. The microsuede on my R&B couch has stood up to all types of abuse.

      • NY CPA

        I agree that the quality is not great. We had a West Elm bedroom suite (bed, dresser, 2 nightstands), and after just a few years, they started falling apart (i.e. the front of the dresser drawers would literally separate from the sides if you pulled it out.

    • Eugenia

      I have some West Elm furniture and find the quality to be good for the price (somewhere between Ikea and higher-end furniture). That said, I’ve found their customer service to be uniformly awful. Major delivery issues with every order I’ve placed, things being placed on backorder with no communication, etc.

  7. Adulting

    I went to the doctor’s this morning for a pre-travel appointment, but I also got a TDAP booster because nobody remembers the last time I got one (my shot card is missing from my mother’s records, my PCP from childhood AND from my high school… then I gave up).

    I’m wondering how everybody manages their medical info? Like, writing down when I got my IUD/what vaccines I got/etc? Is a sheet in google drive or doc in evernote just my best option? I know a lot of these systems comport now but, who knows what will happen in another 10 years…

    • Anonymous

      I have physical copies of me and my husband childhood medical records and I have a google doc of my records since college and my DH’s records since I met him. TDAP is only good for 10 years so if you don’t remember when you last got it you probably need one.

      • DisenchantedinDC

        My mom said she’s pretty sure it was 16 and my doctor said it was probably before college… they said it won’t be an issue if it was more recently, and I’d rather be safe than sorry (and insurance covers it!). But I’m wishing I had this information.

        • Anonymous

          Yeah I’ve always heard that for vaccine boosters it’s no big deal to get them more regularly than the recommended schedule. Definitely better safe than sorry. Especially if you’re traveling soon.

    • LondonLeisureYear

      In terms of vaccines and shots: I have a google docs where I record the date I get shots on. I also take pictures of any physical documents they give me and put them on my google doc.

      Due to insane insurance mess ups in the past I also have a Medical Log google doc where anytime I do something medical related – go to doctor, get blood drawn, call insurance, make a payment – I write up a on line description of what happened and the date.

      Lastly I highly suggest having a Brief Medical History typed up and have it in your wallet. Mine has my name, Insurance number, DOB, Emergency Contact info, Home Address, Doctor’s Name and Contact info, Medicine’s currently taking, Allergies, any dates of major surgeries. This always is helpful when I go to a new doc and have to fill out that form, but also if you go to the ER you can hand it over and they will make a copy or if you get injured its helpful. My husband keeps one for me and I keep one for him so in case of an accident I can quickly rattle off his info even while stressed.

      • a.k.

        Similar here. I created a medical file in Google Docs with multiple sheets where I keep track of stuff for both myself and my husband. Doctors’ names, including specialists, and contact info. (Helpful for when you think, what was the name of that allergist I saw 5 years ago?) and then another sheet with histories of major medical events.

    • CPA Lady

      I have a paper shot record for myself and my daughter. Everything else goes in a draft email in my gmail.

      I also have the medical ID feature set up under the “emergency” section of my iPhone. You can list medications, blood type, allergies, emergency contact, etc in there.

    • Meg Murry

      For a not-ideal but it works system, I add the appointment to my Google Calendar, with the details in the comments. For instance: the subject is :Dr Appt, 2:00 and in the details I put the doctor’s name, practice group address and phone number and then other info like: TDAP booster, IUD inserted or whatever. That way if I want to know “when did I get a TDAP again” I know I can search my google calendar and find the date.

      I also put an appointment in google calendar for when my IUD is due 5 years from insertion, and it’s set to email me 6 months, 4 months, 3 months etc to nag me to make an appointment to deal with it (I’m really bad about making appointments). I figure I’ve been using Google Calendar for far more than 5 years now – and if I switch to something else, I’ll export all my google stuff – and if my Google Calendar ever dies or gets canceled for some reason, I’ve got even bigger problems with keeping my life from falling apart at that point.

      Related, the doctors in my area all have various personal health record or electronic record portals you can use – it’s a royal pain to get the login setup initially, and I haven’t found any of them that communicate with each other properly, but as long as I can keep track of all my logins (thank you LastPass) I can go into the portals and see my past appointment summaries (our system goes back to 2011 or 2012 data).

    • Cambridge Doc

      I have a word document and a spread sheet.

      The spread sheet includes my lab tests, pap results, mammograms. It allows me to clearly see the last times I have had various tests, and look for long term trends over time.

      For the word doc…. Prior to each appointment, I write down a list of issues/questions I want to address or any changes since last appointment. I print out that page and bring with. After the appointment, I quickly add the answers/results/treatment plan. So I have a running document (similar to what is in the clinic computer) of my visits.

      And always have a list of your medications at hand, to give to the doc.

      And it is great to have a separate medical history for if/when you change to a new doc.

      I take care of my parents medical issues. Doing this organization for them is essential. It takes time.

  8. Sponsored Ads

    Is anyone else seeing the Make Your Own Jeans ad on the site today. Really, Kat? That’s your idea of sponsored ads? Gosh.

    • Anon

      The ads you see are based on your browsing history. So I guess that says more about you than Kat…

    • Opal

      My sponsored ads today are ALL AUTOPLAY. I have my sound off, but they really slow my machine down (while it is an older computer, it is still annoying)

    • TulipsAreNear

      1 YOGA TIP FOR A TINY BELLY
      HATS FOR BIG HEADS

      uhm, yep, that’s all me :(

  9. Portland Ideas

    I am traveling to Portland, OR to partly visit family and partly explore with DH and 4 year old daughter in mid-May for four days. We have never been and will be traveling from DC. Family lives in Hillsboro (about 30 minutes outside of Portland downtown I think). We are open to staying anywhere as we’ll likely get a car and can visit family for a day or two and spend the rest of the time exploring. So would love the Hive’s input on:

    1) Where would you recommend staying in Portland? What are good areas to stay in the city? We’re looking for trendy, boutique hotels in neighborhoods with restaurants, lots of things to do, etc. Would love your suggestions on your favorite hotels and neighborhoods!
    2) What are your favorite places to visit in Portland? What should we do there? We’ll have a car so don’t mind doing day trips.

    TIA!

    • LondonLeisureYear

      Granted this was a few years ago but for brunch we loved Tasty n Sons, Gravy and Tin shed. I know a lot of people like staying at the Kennedy School – one of the McMenamins businesses. Even if you don’t stay there, they are interesting places to check out with movie theaters and bars. VooDoo doughnuts is always tasty. I don’t drink coffee so I can’t really give advice for that. PokPok is delicious!

    • Anonymous

      I absolutely loved Mucca Osteria, Salt and Straw, and Voodoo Doughnut (better than Blue Star, imo). Also enjoyed Pine State Biscuit and Cassidy’s. The Oregon Zoo is fun for kids. Definitely go to Multnomah Falls if you have a car.

    • Anon for this

      On it!

      1) There are some hotels in NW 23rd Avenue, which is a great walking area. I would check out the Inn at Northrup Station. There are also some bed and breakfasts that are very nice in SE Division – check out the Evermore Guesthouse. If you want an actual hotel, try Hotel Modera downtown, the Jupiter Hotel on E Burnside, or the Sentinel downtown.

      2) Portland is actually pretty small, so you can get around quickly using your car, the MAX (light rail), or Uber. The cutest walking areas are SE Division and SE Hawthorne (lots of shops, bars, restaurants, etc.); NW 23rd (same); NW Pearl District (same); N Williams and N Mississippi Avenue; and NE Alberta. The city is divided into 5 areas: SW (downtown), NW, SE, NE, and N. SW is mainly your typical downtown city – office buildings. The Pearl District is the “revitalized” loft neighborhood; i.e., yuppies and wealthy empty-nesters. High-end boutiques, condos, great restaurants and bars, and some chain stores (anthropologie, west elm, whole foods, etc.) NW 23rd is the same as the Pearl, but instead of new condos and lofts, it’s old victorian houses. So the same people and stores, but these are the wealthy empty-nesters and yuppies who are more in touch with their hippie sides.

      3) Restaurants: The East side of the river is made up of a bunch of neighborhoods clustered around streets that have good shopping and restaurants. There are few restaurant rows – SE Division between 30th and 39th has some of the best restaurants in town (Pok Pok, Roe, Bollywood Theater, Xico, Ava Genes). NE Alberta and Killingsworth, and N Williams also have amazing restaurants (Lincoln, Tasty N Sons, Aviary, Beast, Expatriate). NE Martin Luther King Blvd also has Ox and Ned Ludd.

      3) Favorite random things to do:
      – Walk through Laurelhurst Park or up to Mt. Tabor park (both in SE Portland).
      – Walk through the Hoyt Arboretum or Forest Park (NW).
      – Go to the Portland Japanese Garden.
      – Rose test garden
      – walk the new Tillikum Crossing (pedestrian and bike bridge) to the South Waterfront, ride the aerial tram up to OHSU, eat at the foodcarts at the base of the tram.
      – Get out of the city and go wine tasting. BEST tasting room: Ponzi Vineyards. It’s only about 25 minutes outside of the city.

      • Hazel

        Seconding the Japanese garden and Rose test garden — the Japanese garden was so peaceful and beautiful, but the rose garden opened up a whole new world for me; I had no idea there were so many types of roses and that they could both look good and smell DIVINE.

    • anon

      Highly, highly recommend the Crystal Springs Rhododendron Garden at that time of year with a small child. My favorite place from childhood. Gorgeous, gorgeous garden, plus they have a million ducks (which you can feed) and squirrels. It’s near Reed College in SE.

      • same anon

        The Rose garden is also lovely but most roses will probably not be blooming yet in May.

    • Senior Attorney

      We’re going to visit friends in a few weeks and they recommended The Nines Hotel. It looks like it’s gonna be pretty great.

    • Former PDX resident

      1) There are several Kimpton hotels in PDX. I have stayed at the Hotel Vintage with my then-2 YO and it was great. There is a nice Italian restaurant on site (Pazzo).

      2) OMSI is a great science museum with lots of activities for younger kids (playing in sand/water). You could consider a drive to the Willamette Valley wine country for scenery/tastings. The Columbia Gorge is another pretty drive with waterfalls along the way.

      3) Syun Izakaya is a fantastic Japanese restaurant in Hillsboro you could hit while visiting your relatives. For more casual fare, I love Burgerville, a local hamburger chain with seasonal ingredients and good offerings for kids. I crave it all the time!

    • TK

      Man, I miss my hometown.

      – Portland Zoo is phenomenal, accessible from downtown via lightrail (the MAX train)
      – Powell’s, 10th and Burnside. A staple. Huge new/used bookstore that takes up an entire city block and goes up 4 stories. I lived there as a kid.
      – Saturday Market. Long running open-air market, open every weekend, down by the waterfront, tons of great food vendors, street performers (jugglers, etc.), craft booths, weirdos. Good fun.
      – Oregon coast is 1.5 hours away (closer from Hillsboro) and has an amazing aquarium, plus its a gorgeous drive.

    • Anon

      If you’re going to drive by yourself, be aware that not all intersections have street signs –and GPS doesn’t always work. I have a friend who was a taxi, Uber and Lyft driver, and he would still get lost by following the GPS directions. I have gotten lost for over an hour in one neighborhood, returning over and over to the same intersection, like a horror movie, and I’ve seen freeway exits that don’t tell you the name of the street at the exit. Narrow streets downtown, one way streets in weird places, etc. Take MAX.

      Also, I recommend the Pendleton outlet in Washougal, WA, which is a great little trip when combined with Multnomah falls.

  10. Paging Prosecutor

    Have you taken your trip to Bermuda yet? How did it go? It got fairly cold here last week (highs in the low 60’s, which requires multiple layers here), so I hope you didn’t visit then!

  11. Scandia

    I am in a dilemma and would a I would appreciate some advice.
    When the daughter of my sister was born, I gave her a necklace with a diamond pendant. Not terrible expensive, but of great value to me, it was a gift to me from my grandmother. In fact, it did hurt a little to give it up, but I wanted her to have something from her great grandmother.
    Fast forward 15 years I got some hand me down clothes from my sister for to my children to sort through and give the rest to Goodwill. In a pocket of a coat, I found the necklace. I do not really blame the child for losing it, but I am angry with my sister for letting her wear it, so young that she could lose it.
    So what do I do? I know it belongs to her, I know that a gift is a gift and you cannot control how people feel about your gifts, but I am still hurt, that they did not appreciate it more.
    Of course, I will give it back, but I cannot figure out how. I have a great relationship with my sister that I do not want to put in jeopardy, but still I would like to convey how I feel.
    TIA

    • LondonLeisureYear

      So your niece, the owner of the necklace, is now 15? I would just give her back the necklace next time you see her, and say that it accidentally got caught in the clothes you gave us but you are so happy to see that you are wearing it because its special to me. And share how it was passed down to her all the way from her great grandmother.

      • Anonymous

        This is a lovely, gracious way to handle the situation. Fifteen is not too young to learn how to care for fine jewelry, but someone has to, you know, TELL her that it’s fine jewelry and give her some guidance on caring for it. If OP is so inclined, she might even offer to teach niece how to clean and store the heirloom, “just like grandma taught me”. Frame it as a bonding experience.

      • Glad it is Friday

        This is amazing – and gives you a chance to give it to her again and convey its meaning to her directly!

    • Anon

      Maybe it’s just me but I wouldn’t give it back. It obviously means a lot to you and you didn’t want to give it up; the receiving child/parent don’t seem to care that much about it — I mean who just leaves a diamond in their coat pocket? Keep it, treasure it, give it to your own kids.

      • TulipsAreNear

        She’s 15 years old. maybe she was playing a sport and had to take it off and then completely forgot about it. Keeping it and then giving it to your own kids without a discussion around how it ended up back in Aunt’s hands would be cause for a big fight. No one would want that.

      • Bewitched

        I would give it back on her 21st birthday. I think 15 is too young to have a valuable heirloom item.

        • Zelda

          +1. I would (kindly) tell her that you have it, so that she’s not freaking out about losing it, and that you will give it to her on her 21st birthday.

          • Anon

            Please don’t do this. All it will do will hurt your relationship with your niece. If you’re willing to give something as a gift, you must be willing to trust the person who has it. So give it back, explain why it is of sentimental and emotional value, and then let go. My mother gave me a pearl pendant necklace my grandfather gave her on her 16th birthday when I turned 16, and it is a prized possession of mine because it has sentimental value. Please don’t assume that 15 is too young to care or understand emotional value.

    • Veronica Mars

      I wonder if there’s a humorous way to add this to the history of the diamond, since essentially it would’ve been lost forever if the coat made it to Goodwill. I think this will take the sting out of the hurt it’s caused you and will be a good reminder to the 15 year old to treasure something that’s clearly important to the family.

      • Veronica Mars

        *take the sting out eventually. People make mistakes, even with things they care about. It could be a silly error. I actually found a gold necklace in the bag I took to my high school prom. I’d taken the necklace off some time in the night to keep it safe (I think it kept getting tangled in my hair) and then promptly forgot about it.

        • emeralds

          I want to encourage you to handle this in a gracious and humorous way, and approach it as if it was an honest mistake, despite the fact that you feel (understandably) hurt. This isn’t exactly the same situation, but my BF gave me a beautiful, not-cheap watch for our first holiday together. I loved it, wore it almost every day, and it made me happy every time I looked at it because it had been such a thoughtful gift. I’m very careful with my things and have never really lost something like that before, but somehow it still ended up going missing. I was devastated and would have been even more crushed if he’d come at me guns blazing about being irresponsible. Mistakes happen, even to responsible people! 15 is not too young for fine jewelry, and I hope your lasting feeling will be joy that you were able to rescue a family heirloom from being lost forever.

          • Blonde Lawyer

            +1. I have misplaced two very special gifts from my family despite being very very careful with their care. I am heartbroken about the most recent and my parents do not know it is missing. I am actually wondering if someone stole it from my room during a house party. It is not worth a lot in money but a lot sentimentally. It is also a religious item so I rarely wear it and have no idea how it would have left my jewelry box. You have no idea if she knows it is missing already and is heartbroken. You could make her day giving it back.

          • lawsuited

            @ Blonde Lawyer, don’t despair! I thought I had lost the locket given to me by my grandparents when I was born and the first pendant my husband gave me while we were dating, and then I found both 10 years later in the zippered pocket of a back pack although I have no recollection of putting them there or why they would be in there together. You never know if/when they might turn up!

    • Anonymous

      Eh, I don’t know. I don’t think it was unreasonable of your sister to let a 15 year old wear a diamond necklace pendant that was a gift to her. I think if you want to blame someone, you should actually blame your niece. But it does sound like it was accidental. She may have been very sad when she lost it, but didn’t want to tell you. I’m not seeing anything from the facts you gave that suggests she wasn’t appreciative of the gift or didn’t value it, she was just a bit careless as teenagers tend to be.

    • Anonymous

      I was wearing heirloom jewelry at that age, but I was very careful about it. Maybe you could ask her if she’d feel more comfortable if you held onto it until she’s a bit older. She’s probably scared she lost it.

    • Jitterbug

      I might tell my sister that I found it in her coat pocket, and let her take it from there. She’d probably be horrified that her daughter was so careless with it, and deal with the situation herself without you having to add how hurt you are that she was careless. Of course she was careless, she’s 15! And I don’t know if it was a nice coat or not, maybe she was dressed up for a fancy event but took the necklace off because she was in public and didn’t want to be a target for muggers.

    • Anonymous

      I’d ask your sister for advice. Tell her you found it. Your niece may be heartbroken and be searching high and low for it, in which case you can return it (teenagers do dumb stuff and regret it). Your niece may also not have noticed that it’s gone and your sister may have good advice about if you should give it back or hold onto it or an option C we haven’t thought of.

      But ask the mom. I’m sure she’ll have your back.

    • Emmer

      My entire life I have been terrible at keeping track of physical objects. I lose jewelry, gloves, scarves, sunglasses, etc. on the regular. My mom tried to help me when I was little, but short of saying that I could never wear something that was given to me, there wasn’t much she could do. When I was about 13 I lost a pair of earrings that my grandmother gave me – they only had sentimental value but I still feel terrible about it 15 years later. It doesn’t mean that I didn’t love her or value the gift she gave me. This is a long way of saying that you should forgive your sister and your niece and just give it back, I’m sure they’ll be relieved.

    • Snick

      I’d hang on to the necklace and re-gift it to niece upon her high school graduation.

      • Herz

        I think this idea of holding onto it and re-gifting it back to her for a bigger birthday or special occasion is kind of odd. If I were the teenager in that situation and I had lost it, I would be extraordinarily embarrassed if you found it, held onto it, didn’t say anything about it and then gave it back to me as a gift several years later – especially if it was something I already treasured, missed and was embarrassed to lose in the first place. I think giving it back to her mother or presenting it back to her immediately with a reminder of its heirloom value is the better route.

        • Snick

          Well, ok. Suggestion withdrawn. It is a snarky approach. I’d give it back to her mom and ask her to safeguard it until daughter is a bit older. I have a daughter this age and she’s a great kid but I would not rely on her ability to keep track of a valuable or heirloom piece of jewelry. She loses her shoes, retainers, phones…

    • CountC

      This is a good time to, as SA would say (paraphrasing), assume good intentions.

    • Anonymous

      Am I the only person who thinks the niece didn’t lose the necklace when she was 15? For some reason, I interpreted OP’s post as saying that the hand me down clothes had been sitting at the sister’s for a while, so the necklace was worn and lost by a “child” — who knows what age? (And therefore maybe the sister and niece have known it was missing for potentially years?) Maybe I constructed that whole narrative?

      At any rate, I agree that you should talk to your sister, OP. The necklace belonged to her grandmother, too, so hopefully she will see why this is so important to you and guide you on how to approach it with your niece. Best of luck, this is a toughie!

      • Scandia - thank you for all the comments

        Dear everyone who commented on my dilemma about the found necklace.
        You gave me many new nuances to the issue. I am still pondering what to do.
        As I wrote, I will give it back, just thinking about how to do it the best way.
        I am touched that you took the time.

  12. Personal site topics?

    Apart from research related posts, what other topics are appropriate for an academic’s website. I set up my site recently where there is a blog section. As an example, I posted some pics from an art museum I visited recently. For those with sites, what sorts of stuff do you post?

    • Cb

      This is on my to do list. Articles you’ve published in the popular press, photos of trips, things like that?

    • Anonymous

      My husband’s personal section has a couple photos and a short blurb about me, our dog and his hobbies and then some photos from our travels together (some of which were for his conferences, some which were purely vacation).

    • Anon

      I would be very careful around what you post on your blog or any social media esp depending on your school and tenure etc. There was a case of a prof at a Midwestern university that posted something unrelated to his work but again the moral code of his college and I think he may have lost his job.

      • lucy stone

        Are you thinking of John McAdams at Marquette? He criticized the classroom performance of a graduate student who was teaching a section.

  13. St. John Help

    I am not in the market for St. John, but feel like I’d like some stretchy jackets (and dresses wouldn’t be bad). Wool would be nice, since I’m always cold at work, wool seems to last, and I don’t like wrinkles.

    And then it hit me: I am in the market for St. John. Which is terrifying. I’d prefer St. John that doesn’t look overly “St. John” (and don’t know if they make that).

    We have at least 2 in-store boutiques (NM and Nordies) and a St. John store in my city. All 3 terrify me a bit. But maybe I need to bite the bullet and just go look (while leaving my wallet at home)?

    Any advice for St. John v*rgins? If it matters, I’m not that old (45), 5-4, and 125″ (and I tend to think of St. John as for much older people who border on being a bit stout, but that’s just from the church ladies I see wearing it; it DC I know St. John skews younger and lots of people buy on consignment, but for a newbie, I’d try the retail shops first).

    • cbackson

      Ha, I love St. John, and I’m 35 and your same dimensions. I buy mine on consignment, being very picky about the styling to avoid dated looks. That said, I think that if you’re going to wear St. John, you have to embrace the lady-who-lunches-in-a-suit aesthetic a little bit and wear it proudly. I like it, because it reads as a bit eccentric but still workplace-acceptable, but I am also frequently inspired by the fashion stylings of Queen Elizabeth, so I’m a little bit of a wacky old lady in training.

    • BB

      I bought my first St. John jacket at age 25. :) I agree that it skews older, but really, they’ve done a good job having some more youthful pieces now. My first jacket was a coral knit blazer and I also got a somewhere between cobalt and navy suit. I still love both. The quality is wonderful and they are very easy to travel with!

      • BB

        Also wanted to add that I also have a great knit dress from them that is my go-to for weddings. It absolutely does not look matronly at all and is super sleek. I’m 5’8″ and a very straight size 12 (not sure if you count that as stout :))

    • Anonymous

      Love St. John. I wear their solid black pencil skirts and sheath dresses with their Chanel-y tweedy jackets. I avoid the ladies who lunch look of head to toe color, and I also avoid jackets with nautical and martial detailing. Black pieces from different collections usually work together. Their other colors like navy or tan vary dramatically from season to season and year to year, so if you like that season’s novelty color track down everything you want that season.

  14. Anonymous

    Looking for suggestions on addressing a fight with my fiance. I’m naturally a procrastinator but biglaw has punished me enough for putting things off that I’ve become more of a planner. My fiance is a super procrastinator. He still hasn’t done his (complicated, very time consuming) taxes, and in fact he’s not even sure he has all the required documents to finish his taxes by the deadline. I did my taxes in early March, as I’ve done ever since my first year in biglaw when I almost missed the deadline because I put it off and then work blew up and it was an unnecessarily stressful couple of days.

    I mentioned to my fiance the other day, you know you can’t procrastinate like this when we get married, right? He just sort of brushed it off and I didn’t press the issue. Yesterday I said again, I really need you to hear me on this, it is stressful for me to procrastinate on taxes and I need to know that you will be a team with me to get them done much sooner than you’re used to. He responded, I always wait until the deadline. I said, that’s when they were just YOUR taxes, but when they’re OUR taxes I need to hear that you will take my comfort into account and get them done much earlier. I’m telling you now, under no circumstances will I wait until 4/15 to start my taxes, even if that means filing as married filing separately. He told me to “calm down” because this won’t even be an issue for 2 years. I said telling me to “calm down” is inappropriate. He said “oh well.” I told him I don’t appreciate him being condescending and dismissive. He finally relented and said he would file the taxes earlier when we got married.

    But now I’m still angry about how the conversation was handled. I also don’t really trust that he will follow through on his word, I think he was just placating me. This is a pretty common argument pattern for us, I raise a concern, he insists he’s right, I repeat the concern, he doubles down while being a jerk to me, I get mad and call him out, then he gives in to whatever I said just to end the fight. But then I’m left feeling like the issue wasn’t actually resolved and he’s resentful that I “picked a fight.” We’ve been to therapy to improve our communication but nothing has changed. Am I doing something wrong here?

    • Opal

      Yes, you’re doing something wrong. Focus on the task at hand – his taxes. this year. this deadline. Talk to him in May about joint taxes. He has a deadline to meet, and that responsibility is his and that’s what his energy needs to be focused on. Let him get through that and then talk about the bigger picture.

      Also, why couldn’t you be responsible for taxes as a married couple if that’s your strength, or if it’s clearly not his strength? There are so many ways to navigate how to do your taxes as a married couple, and so for that reason I think you picked a fight.

      • Anonymous

        In our house, I get the mail, but W-2s are now delivered electronically. I’m a tax laywer, so I’m horribly biased in favor of compliance, but he’s got to get with the program and understand that he will get hounded if he doesn’t give you his W-2 as soon as he gets it and then tells you about accounts, etc. so you need to flag various 1099s to be expecting, etc.

        For me, I’m first sorry that it mattering to you didn’t matter to him. But it should also matter very much to him. The downside is not worth any temporary upside from procrastinating. And compliance is so much easier in the long run than fixing it when it gets broken (if he can’t file, how on earth will you survive an audit or just an IRS inquiry letter??? Penalties and interest are just awful if you mess anything up (like hope to g-d that he doesn’t have to file quarterly taxes).).

        Maybe get a CPA for next time so it’s not just you saying this???

      • OP

        I can’t be totally responsible for the taxes because his taxes are more complicated than just a W2. He has to actually gather all of his information. I’m happy to outsource or otherwise handle it, but he still has to get all the papers together and make sure he has everything he’s supposed to have.

        • Opal

          Yes and no. Get access to his ADP/HR/W2-generating site. Bottom line: find solutions because you cannot change him/this behavior . Or, be honest with yourself that it (it = the behavior/procrastination, even the fighting style, not the taxes alone) is a deal breaker and move on because you will not change him, which is what it sounds like you are trying hard to do.

    • St. John Help

      I’m in biglaw. I can get sacked if I don’t certify that I’ve filed and paid all of my taxes. Maybe that will get his attention?

      • Anonymous

        Oh good grief. I love and respect my husband and we have a great marriage, but I would react exactly the same way if he were babying me and telling me I had to do something before the deadline. He’s a grown man. Let him handle his own taxes.

      • Anonymous

        I’m with Anon at 11:17. The concern is that this argument style has happened before, they’ve tried therapy, and nothing has changed. The tax example is just an example. Fixing it isn’t going to fix the argument issue. Your engagement sounds like it’s going to last two more years? I’d take some time to think about where you want to be.

        • Anonymous

          +1

          I wouldn’t want to marry someone who didn’t want to work on their communication issues. Try a different therapist perhaps, or put more effort into therapy.

          • Senior Attorney

            And realize that communication issues go both ways. It’s not about the OP “fixing” her fiance.

          • SC

            I think it’s a jump to say OP’s fiance doesn’t want to work on communication issues. They are going to therapy. Of course, they may just be going through the motions and not working on anything, but it may also just take time or a different therapist or more practice. And I second Senior Attorney’s observation that it works both ways. Their conversation could have been handled better all around.

    • Anonymous

      I agree that the argument didn’t go well. But, this is a situation where you outsource for the sake of your relationship. When you get married, you say “We have an appointment with our CPA on ____. He will need all of our tax information by that date.” Maybe you’re both capable of doing your taxes on your own, but that doesn’t mean you should have to deal with the stress of procrastination and finger-pointing.

      My husband and I would fight like this over house cleaning. He can tolerate very very little in terms of mess. I can handle a good amount of mess before I get in cleaning mode. Our compromise was to get a cleaning service. We’re both much happier for it because we both “won.”

    • mascot

      For the taxes, I think you have two choices once married. 1) Put that on your household task list that you will do the taxes or 2) outsource this to a professional. If his taxes are complicated, that may be the best choice anyway.
      Is he better about getting other things done that may not be as time sensitive? Is he a type-a person? I think a lot of these issues have to be worked through when you are learning to function as a team. As a lawyer married to a non-lawyer, I find that my strengths are things like taxes and other detail paperwork. My spouse’s strengths lie elsewhere.

    • LondonLeisureYear

      Read Crucial Conversations.

      I also listen have read lots of Gretchen Rubins books and listen to her podcast about Happiness and Habits. And first of all in general you might find her information on tendencies useful. There are 4 types, and she gives suggestions on how the 4 types can work together. Perhaps you and your fiance are different types and need to realize that and come up with skills to work together. But also she talks about shared work on her podcast: http://gretchenrubin.com/happiness_project/2015/09/podcast-28/ Might be some tips that you can use in the future about sharing tasks.

    • Anonymous

      I wouldn’t like someone talking to me the way he did to you, but I also think you did kind of pick a fight. Married couples normally file one tax return, so if getting it done early is a priority to you (it is to me too) then YOU need to take on the burden of tax preparation. I understand you may need forms and the like from him in order to do this, but telling him that he has to do his taxes early isn’t really true. YOU will do them early when you’re married. So you were kind of provoking him unnecessarily. Asking someone to hand you their W-2 is pretty different than asking someone to do their taxes and until you have some evidence that he’s going to resist giving you the forms or interfere with your ability to prepare joint taxes, it doesn’t seem like something worth fighting over.

    • Aunt Jamesina

      Oh man, I feel your pain. I’m a planner on overdrive and my husband is so laid-back he’s horizontal. It’s infuriating at times, but I think in matters like these, the person who cares more about something being done in a certain way will end up shouldering the burden– but there are ways you can still split up the work. Sometimes you can divide and conquer. For us, this often means I do planning (meal plans and grocery lists, for example) and he executes (i.e., he does the grocery shopping). This doesn’t work for everything, but could you prepare your portion of the taxes and then leave whatever you can’t complete for him to do? Or would it be possible to outsource your taxes?

      Think of the realistic worst-case scenario. Has he ever actually been late in filing? Does his work truly suffer from procrastination? I had to recognize that although there are times when my husband’s procrastinating has small costs (late fees, forgetting a family member’s birthday), he often comes out ahead of me because he’s not laying awake at night worrying his life away about his to-dos and should-have-dones, and is better able to roll with the punches when plans go awry. He still gets things done and definitely does his share of the work around the house. Part of a partnership is sharing control, which is HARD, especially when you’re more of a planner.

      If this fight is just a stand-in for your overall feelings on his procrastination (and I get it, I felt that way quite a bit, particularly when we were engaged and the first two years of marriage because my thought pattern would be OMG I HAVE TO LIVE WITH THIS FOR THE REST OF MY LIFE I’D BETTER TRY TO POUND IT OUT OF HIM NOW), recognize that he won’t be changing, and decide if this is something you can live with, or if there’s a better way both of you can operate to live with each other’s tendencies.

    • SoCalAtty

      SUCH good advice here. Please follow it. If he is a procrastinator on this, he just is, so either you take primary responsibility for it our outsource – because your alternative is a total storm-of-feces-hitting-the-fan and a lot of “fun” untangling it if it goes south. But you know that.

      Is he filing an extension and then ultimately getting them filed on time per the extension? Or is he just not filing them? As long as they are getting done legally, I’d think that was ok. Versus MY problem where it is now April and now we owe TWO years of filings. Yay. (Disclaimer: yes I know that is totally not in compliance and ridiculous. Yes we are working on it and have retained a CPA, but husband owns his business and the transition is taking a minute. We’re also hiring a bookkeeper for a consistent 20 hours a week, but to get her I have to provide health insurance so we’re shopping that now. This seems to be the last “issue” in our marriage, and, since we’ve been together since high school, it’s just one of those things we need to iron out!)

        • SoCalAtty

          Not the taxes, transition to the CPA! Had to move things from regular accounting to something stored in the cloud, changing procedures so CPA / bookkeeper can take over back office stuff, payroll, things like that. We haven’t been working on it very hard or for very long, because I have a 7.5 month old and it is all we can do to keep the day to day stuff running. It’s just not something I’m stressing over that much because it is going to get outsourced and then I won’t have to worry about it anymore.

          I also have to get the company insurance plan shopped so we can hire the bookkeeper on a consistent basis, because she can’t quit her other job that includes benefits until I do.

          • Anon

            Geez, I’d work for you without health insurance, at your home, during business hours, because it’s about *your* convenience. And I can’t stand “cloud” accounting.

    • Anonymous

      If this were me and my husband (or then fiance) I’d say “this matters to me, and next year I’d like to propose we use an accountant.” Do it all through a 3rd party and that way your “dates” are bumped up a few months.

      Or set a joint date in Feb to spend an evening doing round 1 of taxes. or do your taxes for the two of you.

      I have done mine and my husband’s taxes since we’ve been married. If i’m missing a form, I get it from him.

      Once you’re MFJ you can’t both enter in the info anyway. Just own it.

    • Anon

      If he starts his return prep on April 15, file an extension and do married filing joint when his info is pulled together (doing married filing separate just so you can file without an extension is cutting off your nose to spite your face, fyi). It sounds like this fight isn’t really about taxes; the April 15 deadline should never make someone as anxious as your post sounds. When stuff this little starts to become such a HUGE thing in a relationship, it might be a sign that marriage is not your best choice and therapy is not working.

      But for tax strategies: my family has a folder in the designated mail collection spot, and whenever a tax form or charitable contribution receipt comes in the mail, we added it to the folder. There is another box to catch business receipts, invoices for house improvements, etc. E-mailed documents go to a shared folder on Dropbox. When tax season comes, I check those three places, fill out the organizer my tax return preparer sends, run it past the husband for signature, and ship it all off to the return preparer.

    • Senior Attorney

      I am mostly Team Him here. He gets his taxes filed, right? He can certainly file for an extension and unless he has a history of not getting his taxes filed, you are borrowing trouble here.

      And really, if you have been to therapy and it hasn’t helped, and this is driving you crazy, are you sure you want to marry this guy? I repeat this so often I am blue in the face, but people are not improvement projects. He is who he is. If there are things you don’t like about who he is and how he operates, you have to decide if you can live with them as the price of admission (“oh, man! He is a procrastinator and it makes me crazy but he always gets the taxes done in the end so I just grin and bear it!”) or whether they are dealbreakers (“I can’t be married to somebody who procrastinates! I will go insane!”). You are treating this like Category Number Three: Things you hate that he doesn’t want/plan to change, but you think you can get him to change if you just nag him about it enough. News flash: There is no Number Three.

      You can probably work around this, as others have said, by outsourcing the taxes to an accountant. But generally, I think it’s important to realize that he is who he is, and that’s who you’re marrying, and any attempt to get him to make big changes in how he operates is likely to end in heartache.

    • SC

      Your description sounds to me like you’re being condescending too by approaching the problem as if there’s one “right” way to handle it. Would it be fair to rewrite your description of what happened, from his perspective, as “She brought up an issue that’s two years away from even being an issue and said we were going to handle it her way, I told her to back off, she insisted she was right and we had to deal with this future problem now, I told her to back off again, she got mad, and I just shut down and told her we’d do it her way in two years”?

      The first problem I see is that you’re thinking there is only one solution, which is that your fiance agrees to do things your way. But in reality, there are several valid approaches. For one, you could handle the taxes since that seems to be a strength of yours and not his. Or, unless there’s some special circumstance like “St. John” mentioned, you could file for an extension, as long as you’re withholding enough to expect a refund. In a marriage, very rarely should one person be saying, “Under no circumstances will we be doing X.” There are a few places to draw a hard line, of course, but I think human nature is to fight back when you hear a flat “No,” or “You’re doing it wrong.” In my experience, a much more effective and peaceful approach is to say, “You know, the tax deadline is approaching, and there’s no reason not to go ahead and file and get our return. Can we schedule some time next weekend to collect the paperwork and make sure we have all the correct deductible expenses?” If he pushes back, you can say, “It really stresses me out not to know for sure how much we’ll get back, or whether we’ll owe money. I’d rather just go ahead and get it done. Maybe we can [do enjoyable activity] afterwards.” Or, if you can do it on your own, “Well, can you just make sure I have your paperwork, and maybe you can [work on the basement remodel, clean out the drain, call Time Warner, or similarly unpleasant task] while I work on the taxes.”

      Also, when I was engaged, we had several fights over seemingly small stuff because we were thinking, “Oh my goodness, am I going to have to deal with this for the rest of my life?” The answer is, most of the time, yes. You are going to have to deal with your husband being a super procrastinator. He is going to have to deal with you being stressed out about stuff he hasn’t done yet. So now is the time to do exactly what you’re doing here, and (a) figure out if you can accept the price of admission, and (b) figure out how you can navigate it together without a big fight every time.

      • OP

        I previously suggested that we should meet with a CPA before getting married so we can get our financial house in order with the assistance of a professional. He refused. I again suggested a CPA to help with taxes in the future, since his are complicated (and he isn’t very good at record keeping, but I didn’t mention that). He again refused. So I’m not trying to impose my way of doing things, I’ve repeatedly suggested getting outside help to discuss how to manage our finances generally and taxes specifically, and I got shot down. I feel pretty backed into a corner. He’s insisting on doing things at the last minute and I was trying to express that that makes me very uncomfortable, which is the argument I described above.

        • Senior Attorney

          So the way it’s gonna be is that he is going to do it at the last minute and you are going to feel very uncomfortable. Is that something you can live with or is that a dealbreaker? Because continuing to fight about it is just going to make things worse.

    • Anon

      Frankly, you sound like a shrill harridan. Impossible to live with.

      Your way of doing things isn’t the only way to do them. If you often feel this way about things the only solution is for you to live alone.

      • Anonymous

        Thank you for your insightful contribution to the discussion. Name-calling is a great way to give someone feedback when they ask for advice! You have a fantastic day.

    • AKB

      My husband is a little like this. He procrastinates A LOT. And it is tiring. We had a different issue, but I totally understand your frustration.

      We went 6 (!!!) years before I had complete visibility into his finances, taxes, etc. He finally turned over all the books when we discovered that he wasn’t contributing anything to retirement. He thought he was. But he didn’t check. Ugh. His financial life was otherwise in order but he wouldn’t take the time to review things and make sure paperwork and other things were handled in a a timely manner.

      It took a while for him to let me take over. Now I manage everything, including tax preparation, and I give him regular updates on how things are going and full visibility into everything.

      It’s hard. Just ask him for visibility once you are married, and then take it from there. If he gives you his tax paperwork, you can get a lot done without him having to be there. Then you can take the prepared return and review it with him and file it in time.

  15. Anonymous

    I just got word that my extremely annoying coworker (who sits near me and drives me nuts) got another job and is leaving in a week! CONFETTI!

    • NOLA

      Woohoo! When my tenured supervisee who tortured me for year by not doing his job very well announced his retirement, I could barely contain my glee. The best feeling!

  16. SoCalAtty

    Question for the hive: Is hiring a “wardrobe consultant” a thing?

    I have clothes, and I even went through my closet and “purged” before I came back from maternity leave. But I’m just not…put together every day. I typically do slacks + sweater or some other top, or a dress with tights and boots. I probably have 3 pairs of shoes I rotate through. It’s fine, professional, but I work at a design firm and I need to step it up. I’d totally be willing to throw some money out of my upcoming bonus toward this problem, because I think it is something that would be worth it and would make me more confidant at work where I deal with very high level designers.

    • lsw

      One option might be to use a Nordstrom personal shopper – let her know in advance a few key pieces you normally wear (grey pants, navy skirt) and then she can help you find accessories or other pieces that breathe new life into what you have.

    • Senior Attorney

      Yes, it’s a thing. If you’re willing to travel to Seattle for a day or two I highly recommend Angie at youlookfab dot com.

      • SoCalAtty

        Oh boy. The MONEY isn’t late, the filings are. We’re all paid up and the IRS has their money, there are just business taxes that need to get done.

        Actually, we’re owed a refund. So, we’ll be ok, but thanks, Judgey Pants.

      • Anonymous

        Isn’t this the same poster who was up to her eyeballs in debt but still refusing to sell her horse? If so, the tax drama is completely unsurprising.

        • SoCalAtty

          Maybe two years ago. Or even 3. Not only is my horse sold, I sold my house (for a significant profit), and the only debt I have at this point in time is my student loan debt, fixed at 4%, so I’m in no big hurry to pay that off (my investments make more than that). I also have a maxed-out 401k, emergency fund, 529 for my 7.5 month old, and am halfway toward a 20% down-payment for house number 2 in my HCOL area. Anything else you need to know, so that thou canst bless my wardrobe upgrade, madam Judgey Pants #2?

        • Anonymous

          Wow, I really do not remember that much about any of the posters, and it’s a little creepy that you’re calling out someone on something from a few years ago- you have no idea how her financial situation has changed between now and then.

          • SoCalAtty

            It IS a little strange. I’m a little concerned that there are at least two people out on the internet that 1) are keeping tabs on me 2) are so unhappy with my previous posts they’d come after me for asking for wardrobe advice. But I guess I’ve just been out busy having a wonderful time living my life instead of keeping track of who said what on the internet.

          • Anonymous

            Nah, I’m not fixated on you. You and many other regulars post here about your lives almost daily and I can’t help but remember stuff about all of you…just like I know a lot about the bloggers I read regularly but have never met or had a personal interaction with. You put it out there, don’t be upset that someone who happens to have a great memory for absolutely useless sh!t happens to know a lot about you.

          • JDS

            Anonymous here is right. I’ve been reading this site for 10+ years. Many “super regulars” here have shared so much about their lives that regular readers like myself can piece together an impressive string of details about their lives and draw conclusions, right or wrong. One doesn’t have to be keeping tabs on anyone else here when it’s plainly presented under the same handle for years.

          • Yup

            I agree with JDS. I’ve been reading this s!te for 6 years and have been a regular commenter for 5 of those. I am constantly changing my name to help protect my anonymity. FWIW, SoCalAtty, I don’t have that impressive of a memory but I remembered your story, and I remember others (It’s Me Again…, Senior Attorney, etc.).

          • SoCalAtty

            Ok….cool that your memory is that good….but why go after someone like that? As I said above, the issue(s) are more than resolved, and, really, I asked advice on updating my closet – not on my financial situation. If you didn’t have an answer relevant to the question, why post at all?

  17. help!

    We have a small team, housed in a different location from our main office, so we’re a bit on our own. We are currently down three positions – director (has been open for 18 months, but apparently might be filled within the next two months), Program Manager (about to make an offer) and an associate position – not law – that is sort of like a junior position of my own (also about to make an offer – this is a new position). The only staff we have right now in place is our admin, me, and my colleague who shares the same job title as me. I just learned my colleague is leaving – last day April 29th. And I’m going to be on maternity leave for 12 weeks starting mid-July.

    I was already feeling mildly stressed due to being understaffed and due to having a really, really tough pregnancy where I felt like I was operating at maybe 50% for about two months, and about 80% now. But I was feeling pretty okay because we were planning ahead for my leave and my colleague was going to take some of my work on and the new associate would as well. Now I am panicking because she will not be here – as of two weeks from now!! – so not only are my leave plans partially blown up, but there is more work that needs to be assigned. This would obviously be a great time to be at 110%, to show that I can take on extra responsibility and excel under pressure. Which would be great if I wasn’t tired and sick at almost all times.

    Any good recommendations for really focusing and prioritizing my work, while also taking care of my sicko self? I will already feeling stressed about not performing at my very best due to this pregnancy, but I was talking myself through it because I figured it was temporary. Now I’m feeling like I need to be overperforming superwoman for the next few months. Help!

    • Anonymous

      What is your role in this office? It is your responsibility to be managing all of the extra work that should be done by hiring additional people? If not, talk to the person in charge of hiring and emphasize the need to get additional people in the office. Take care of yourself first. That’s priority number 1.

  18. in the kitchen

    Maybe a long shot, but does anyone have a good recipe for saag paneer, preferably using frozen spinach? I’ve got to feed a large and diverse crowd next week and would like to add something green but simple to the chana masala-based menu.

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