Coffee Break – Naturalizer Collina

Naturalizer Collina What a cute shoe from Naturalizer! I suppose these qualify as an “oxford” style because of the tie, although they’re also a bit of a Mary Jane — I think the low vamp would be really flattering, and the whole thing looks walkable and comfortable. They’re available in black, red, and two browns — most shoes marked from $85 to $45 today at 6pm. Naturalizer Collina



  1. Grandma/Gas Leak :

    My grandmother, who is 81 and lives alone, mentioned today that her stove was leaking gas a few weeks ago. Her kitchen hasn’t been updated since about 1965, and while we were hoping to totally remodel it at some point, we are now thinking that maybe the stove is an emergency. Her stove is just on a countertop/over some cabinets – it’s not part of an oven. I am trying to figure out whether we can just buy a replacement at an appliance store that the appliance people will install, or whether we need to have some sort of professional (but who? is there such thing as a gas-trician?) come in and look at the stove area to make sure the problem isn’t in the gas pipes (?). I would appreciate any advice as to how to deal with this – I’ve never had to replace a stove before, much less dealt with a gas leak, and I want to make sure we are making her safer. If it helps, she lives in NYC. Thanks!

    • PC Richards does installations, I think. A lot of other big stores do too. You may also want to call her super (if she lives in the building). He may be able to shut off the gas or otherwise help out.

    • DC Association :

      Definitely call the super first. Then, yes, you can just get a new cooktop if it is not the pipes. (Cooktop is the appropriate term for what you describe.) Any appliance store should be able to install for an extra cost.

    • Another Zumba Fan :

      When I had my new stove installed (purchased at Sears) my cost included a fee to give the installers a temporary permit to turn off/on the gas. I think I’m remembering that correctly.

    • Research, Not Law :

      Call the gas company to send someone out.

      Our new stove from one of the big boxes, installation was included with delivery. When we had an issue with it, an appliance repairman checked it all out. It was under warranty, so we didn’t arrange it, but I would imagine they are listed in the yellow pages – or I suppose these days it would be angie’s list?

  2. For those readers who are pro-life with exceptions for rape or life of mother, how do you justify those exceptions (or others I am forgetting)? I am liberal on reproductive rights, but I am also genuinely curious – not trying to pick a fight. If I believed that a fetus was a human being from conception, I don’t think I could justify abortion in the case of a fetus that was conceived through rape (it’s still a person – if I couldn’t put it to death after it had been born, then I couldn’t do so after conception, either) or whose presence puts the mother’s at risk (same as previous comment; it’s two human lives, and who am I to choose?).

    • I’ll bite. I’m pro-life and I generally believe in exceptions for rape (which I believe includes incestuous rape) or when the mother’s life is in danger. And I say “generally” for the very reason you described: I *do* believe a fetus conceived through rape is a person as much as a fetus conceived through consensual means.

      But I don’t believe in abortion resulting from consensual means (trying to avoid moderation here…) because the two participating parties knew exactly what the risks were and that the act might result in a baby. (I am pro-contraceptives, btw). For cases of rape, the woman obviously didn’t get that choice. As for cases where the mother’s life is threatened, it’s simply a value judgment on my part that I wouldn’t condemn a woman to death, or at least take *that* choice away from her.

      I’m also typing this in the middle of prepping for a trial on Monday, so I don’t think I’m doing my POV justice.

      • I don’t love how you’re implying a baby is the punishment for knowing the risks of consensual relations. Doesn’t seem very fair to the baby, you know?

        • Flippantly, I’d respond with “it’s certainly less unfair than aborting it.”

          My real response is 1) I didn’t word that well and it’s fair to call me out for phrasing it like a punishment; 2) this is why I’m a huge advocate for contraceptives and if those fail, adoption; and 3) we all take actions every day with knowledge that there are risks that will affect not just ourselves and that would be one of those times.

          • FWIW, I didn’t read baby=punishment. It sounded more like baby=known (and mutually accepted) consequence.

      • Out of curiosity – how do you feel about abortions in the case of consensual incest? (Shudder, but it does happen.)

      • And do you feel a woman sentenced to carry to term a baby she doesn’t want is going to take care of her body/ avoid drugs and alcohol / get proper prenantal care? Or do we lock up mama until she delivers?

        Remember, the actual population likely to get into this situation is not the readership here.

        • What if she chooses to behave that way anyway but wants to have the baby?

          • Yes, and do we need more of those babies? Bottom line, I feel terrible for the babies and think in many cases an early abortion is merciful.

    • //pulls up a chair and a bowl of popcorn//

    • Oh god oh god. Please can we not do this? I just….I’m not equipped to deal with it.

    • Devil's Advocate :

      I’ll add to this discussion. How can someone who is pro-choice be against the death penalty? Surely someone who has committed and been convicted of terrible crimes deserves their life to be ended rather than that of an innocent fetus whose only crime has been that of conception. Thoughts?

      • The State/Government has no right to decide who should live or die. Period. It is about government power vs. the right of the individual. As for abortion, well, that is between a woman and her doctor. If we allow the government to get involved in reproductive decisions, they why couldn’t the government decide that she HAS to get an abortion? The government has done that, by the way. In this country, there have been forced abortions. And, I hope you are not a lawyer, Devil!

        • That’s a nice non-sequiter insult to Devil’s Advocate.

          I’d add that the founder of Planned Parenthood was an outspoken advocate for eugenics and thought abortion was a means to rid the country of those she deemed undesirable.

          • Planned Parenthood was also (in its early years) widely supported by clergy who were often the first to hear stories from families who simply could not affored another child or from women whose bodies could not take one more pregnancy. Yes, even Catholic clergy.

          • Divaliscious11 :

            Serious question – why does that matter – if the current organization is not eugenics focused?

          • Advocate didn’t make an argument. She asked a lay person’s question. Every first year lawyer should know the answer.

          • That’s actually not true at all about Margaret Sanger. From what I’ve heard, it’s something that’s been mostly made up by anti-abortion folks.

        • I’m pro-choice and not terribly okay with the death penalty, but it’s not really dealbreaker for me either way.

          I think for me it comes down to it not being right for other people to make decisions on how you use your body. Sure, people have the choice not to engage in s*x and risk an unwanted pregnancy, but people who chose to have kids aren’t forced to donate organs or even blood if their kids need it. Can you imagine if some kid needed a bone marrow transplant and the state wanted to track down his non-custodial, out of the picture father and force him to be tested and donate bone marrow? We don’t even make dead people donate their organs, so I don’t know why anyone else has any right to tell a woman how she should use her body.

          I realize that pregnancy is temporary and not usually terribly risk for most women. But, complications happen. A friend of mine almost died because she had placenta accreta (the one where the placenta burrows into the uterus, causing massive bleeding). Several years prior to that, she had donated a kidney to a relative – she says that recovery was MUCH easier.

          So to me, it’s the same thing. A fetus’ life is at stake if the mother decides to have an abortion. People die every day because they can’t get a kidney, and you can take yours to your grave, no one will force you to donate. I’m pretty hardcore about birth control and really find “oops” pregnancies hard to believe (lesson a male friend of mine learned: Don’t believe a woman who says her doctor told her she couldn’t get pregnant unless you are in the room during the ultrasound and see that she has no uterus) but people make mistakes, and making a mistake shouldn’t mean giving up your rights over your own body.

          I probably won’t be able to check in again today or tomorrow morning, but I will be interested to see how this conversation goes. I have faith that the dignified [email protected]@[email protected] community can have a civilized conversation on this topic.

          • health care anon :

            +1 Polly D. Beautifully stated, I had never thought about the organ donation similarity before.

      • SF Bay Associate :

        I’ll bite. I’m pro choice and anti-death penalty, but I’m not anti on moral grounds. I think if there was a way to make sure that the death penalty was equitably imposed (i.e. black men end up on death row more than white men for the same crimes; death row inmates are overwhelmingly poor and uneducated) only on defendants who were actually guilty (see: Innocence Project, so many defendants on death row wrongfully convicted), I would not be morally opposed to it. But the death penalty has cost California upwards of $4 BILLION since it was reinstated in the 1970s (Source: Executing the Will of the Voters: A Roadmap to Mend or End the California Legislature’s Multi-Billion-Dollar Death Penalty Debacle,” 9th Circuit Judge Alarcon and Loyola Prof. Mitchell). All the appeals (obviously necessary considering how many are wrongfully convicted), the special housing, the insurance, etc. cost a fortune. Since being reinstated, we’ve had 900 on death row; 85 died while on death row, 14 executions, and the rest are waiting. And San Quentin, CA’s death row, is falling apart, needing millions in repairs. Are we that much safer? Is the death penalty that much more of a deterrent than Life Without Parole? Especially since everyone knows you spend decades on death row? We are so, so in debt here in California, and have so many better things to spend our taxes on, like servicing our debt and funding education. The death penalty is not worth the fiscal impact to me, so I’ll be voting yes on Prop 34. Life Without Parol will suffice.

        • SF Bay Associate :

          ETA: I also think that there has been, as of yet, no way to ensure that the death penalty is equitably and rightfully imposed, and we shouldn’t use the death penalty until we can get it right. I’m in favor of the death penalty hypothetically speaking, but not as it’s been practiced. Since there is almost certainly no way to ensure the death penalty is equitably and rightfully imposed, I will never be able to support it in practice.

          • This sums up my opposition to the death penalty. Simplistically, I don’t believe The State can do much of anything right or correctly. Therefore, I don’t trust that the death penalty is properly implemented. Because the outcome is about as final as you get (death!), I’m much more comfortable with life without parole.

          • Anonymous :

            If you could prove to me without any doubt whatsoever that the death penalty could be applied without any racial or income based bias, perhaps we could talk. But every study done and all evidence shows that isn’t the case. My home state has only executed one person in its history and that person was innocent — and he was executed because he was irish and people didn’t really like irish-catholics back then.

        • Blonde Lawyer :

          This, and I have an issue with it taking FOREVER for someone to get the death penalty. Working with criminals, I have seen people change while incarcerated. I don’t think it is right to kill someone 20 years after they committed a crime. The person then and the person now may not be the same.

        • This times a million. I’ll have to memorize this for when people ask me why I’m against the death penalty because it is so much more eloquent than I ever am.

      • This is false equivalence. Believing that an individual has the right to choose whether to terminate her pregnancy (and that a fetus is not endowed with all the rights of a human being who has been born and lives outside the womb) does not mean that the government has an obligation to put to death anyone who has caused the death of another. In fact, I would bet that there is some correlation between being pro-choice and being anti-death penalty. And if you don’t think a pregnant person has the right and authority to terminate her pregnancy, how can you think that a jury should have the right and authority to terminate someone’s life? If one is to be decided by god rather than wo/man, shouldn’t the other as well?

        I asked my question because I was curious, and I appreciate the few genuine responses; you are asking yours to stoke an argument, so far as I can tell.

        • Devil's Advocate :

          How would you feel if it were the victim’s family deciding whether or not the convicted person be put to death?

          I resent the accusation that I’m trying to cause an argument. Like you, I’m only looking for how other people think about issues I feel differently about. SF Bay Associate gave a great response without attacking my personal character, something I appreciated.

          • AnonInfinity :

            “How would you feel if it were the victim’s family deciding whether or not the convicted person be put to death?”

            I am not trying to gang up on you or start an argument (or garner sympathy), but please do not use this argument to justify the death penalty. My mother was murdered, and I am very anti-death penalty. In fact, there is an entire national organization of people whose family members and friends were murdered who are against the death penalty.

            To answer your actual question, I am pro-choice and anti-death penalty because I do not believe that a fetus is a person until some point much closer to birth than conception. But a convicted murderer is a person. I think it is wrong to kill people. Period. I also agree with SF Bay and others in that, even if I was ok with killing a person who had done some very awful things, I would want our system to be completely, 100% flawless and it is not.

          • Anoninfin, and feel free to not answer if you think this is going to start too much, but for people who believe that life starts later than conception, why do you believe that? Is it based on science (this is not trying to be snarky, I am really uninformed in this subject and have complicated feelings on it) I honestly don’t know whether I am a pro-life or choice. I think I will always want it to be legal. But I really struggle with the fact that unlike birth control, where you are preventing a chance at pregnancy, abortion terminates an actual pregnancy. So if you were to do nothing, it would be a child. It reminds me of those law school exercises with the train and the tracks and pulling the lever. Do some pro choice people feel like it is a child, but the woman’s right is more important than that life? I guess that is where I line up I think. But I have trouble with the fact that it is taking an action to stop a life that if you did nothing, would occur.

          • AnonInfinity :

            I believe that based on my beliefs about what a person is. I don’t believe in a soul, so for me there’s no point where the soul suddenly appears and that’s what makes it a person. I guess to me, a person is a human who can survive outside the womb (and who has a very good chance of survival, not the one in a million born at a certain point who makes it). I don’t know exactly when that is, and science doesn’t have a great answer, I think.

            And yes, some pro-choice people do not think it matters whether a fetus is a person or not because the woman’s right trumps the right of the fetus. I am actually on board with that argument to a point. As in, I believe that certain 3rd tri abortions should be legal (though they would be and are, where they are legal, extremely rare). I am not sure the OP meant to take it there, though, and I recognize that it’s a very controversial and touchy subject, for good reason.

          • Thanks for the response AI. I have thought about that as the definition before but struggle with it because a baby can’t survive outside the womb without someone taking care of it. It needs someone to provide nurishment, guard it, etc. So what is the difference in my mind between that care and the care of the mother inside the womb? Or maybe that makes all the difference and that is where the distinction is.

          • AnonInfinity :

            Yeah, it gets pretty mushy at a certain point. It does make all the difference to me that a baby is outside in the world and the fetus is inside the woman’s organs. I don’t have a precise answer for when “personhood” starts other than that. Some posters below articulated much better than me why I’m comfortable with that line being very fuzzy. If the fetus is not a person at 24 weeks but is a person at 25 weeks, I still don’t think the government should be able to force the woman to have something (even another person) incubating inside her if she doesn’t want it.

          • LadyEnginerd :

            I see the two types of “care” differently. Outside the womb someone else could conceivably take care of the baby. Not so much inside the womb. I think that’s the difference to me between the two types of “care” – the mother can’t give an unwanted fetus to someone else to take care of, but can give an unwanted baby to someone else to take care of (adoption) once it has been born.

            I’m not sure what I’d think if they were to develop fetal adoption, where it could be transferred into the womb of someone who very much wanted to care for it during a pregnancy. Medical science has not yet made me think about that possibility in great detail.

          • I’ll jump in here.

            I do not believe that any human being has the right to the body parts of another human being. I also happen to believe that life, in any sort of meaningful way, does not begin at conception. But my pro-choice stance does not depend on defining exactly where you have a potential human life and where you have human life. IMHO, the government should not be allowed to give one human being rights to the body of another, inside or outside the womb.

            Likewise, I’m consistent on the death penalty/euthenasia debate. I do not believe that the government has any right have a direct voice in the end of a person’s life. It should not have the right to put anyone to death. Nor should it be able to prohibit a person from choosing to end his or her life, even if that means asking for assistance.

          • Dealcube, but what about when that person is there because of your choice? the government didn’t put that human being there.

          • First, conception is not always a choice.
            Second, parenthood does not require giving up body parts to a child — not even to save the child’s life. We are not strapping down deadbeat dads (or even loving parents) and plucking kidneys or parts of livers to treat medical conditions of the actual autonomous person that they contributed chromosomes to. Nor do I think we should.

      • karenpadi :

        Because life in prison is cheaper than the death penalty (appeals, special holding cells, etc).

        I’m a fiscal conservative–no unwanted babies (statistically more likely to be on welfare. food stamps, foster care, etc.) (pro-choice); don’t waste money on prisoners (anti-death penalty).

        • Gail the Goldfish :

          Same reason here, and also because our justice system is not perfect and I don’t want to risk killing innocent people.

          But, strangely (and unrelated to my prochoice views and I realize this is a bizarre perspective), I’m also not convinced that the death penalty is necessarily a “worse” punishment than life in prison. Probably because I don’t believe in Hell or even necessarily an afterlife. If someone murdered someone I love, I wouldn’t want them to die. That’s too easy. I’d want them to have to think about that every day for the rest of their lives.

          • also because our justice system is not perfect and I don’t want to risk killing innocent people

            This is exactly what DA is asking though. If you are opposed to the death penalty on moral grounds, why are you ok with “killing innocent people” when its a mother choice? (and it may be you don’t think they are alive or people, I think that’s prob the most common answer)

          • Gail the Goldfish :

            Oh, yea, I guess that was important to that point-no, I don’t consider fetuses as alive people until they’re about 24-26 weeks. That’s a whole other conversation as to why.

          • “I’d want them to have to think about that every day for the rest of their lives.”

            Also true. About 10 years ago, my grandfather was the foreman of a very high profile murder trial in his small CA city. I think this is a pretty common belief, based on what he said and what I read after. (This experience also made my verrrry R grandfather completely against 3 strikes, fwiw.)

        • Mrs. Jed Bartlett :

          Exactly. The Guttmacher Institute published a study in 2008 that for every public dollar spent on contraceptive the government saves $3.74 that it would otherwise have to spend on pre-natal care and the birth itself. This does not even include taking care of the resulting human until it is 18 (education, food, housing, healthcare) or beyond.

          I do not believe people who say they are fiscal conservatives and that government has to be small and we have to make choices based on what saves money and who then say that I cannot have access to contraceptives or abortion. Forcing women who don’t want them to have children costs everyone lots of money. You have already said you make choices based on what is cheaper. This is not cheaper. In this case, you are clearly making a choice based on something other than money. Probably some belief that your religion says I should have the baby and that I should have to live by your religion. No, thank you. My great-grandparents came to this country so that they could live somewhere where other people did not force their religion on us. I would like to think that the United States is still a place of freedom from imposed religion.

      • Praxidike :

        Umm. I am not in favor of the death penalty. But you’re conflating very different ideas. If I am pro-choice (YOU BET I AM), then I don’t believe that the embryo/fetus is a person, and I also believe in a woman’s right to choose her own healthcare and her own bodily autonomy. So, abortion, to me, does not equal the death of a person; it equals the termination of what can accurately be characterized as a parasite and which cannot survive outside the mother’s body.

        By contrast, a person in prison is an actual living, breathing person. Maybe he committed murder. Maybe she committed arson and kidnapped someone and someone died. Who knows. But there is a clear, definable difference between an actual human on death row and a fetus/embryo. THAT is how you “justify” having those different viewpoints.

        • The fetus could not survive, but if you did nothing, it would grow to survive (assuming it didn’t miscarry) So is the definition of a person one can survive outside a womb? Some of those fetuses could survive, if you hooked them up to machines and premature baby care. (right? maybe not) I am really interested in how people view when that fetus to human change comes that is why I am asking questions.

          • Praxidike :

            That still doesn’t address the right to make healthcare decisions without governmental interference, nor does it address a woman’s right to bodily autonomy.

          • No but that’s not what we were talking about. Solely the prochoice anti death part. So morally, if you don’t believe its killing because its not a person, but your definition is that it can survive outside the womb, what if those fetuses can survive outside the womb just with assistance.

          • Divaliscious11 :

            CFM – I guess I’d state it as if the fetus can survive, without woman making the decision, which is generally after the point of legal abortion, (except of course where the woman’s life is at risk) then some degree of personhood has been achieved. Again, I don’t equate pro-choice with pro-abortion, and too many pro-lifers should really be called pro-birthers, because they seem to care very little about the post birth quality of life of the child.

          • A parasite? Isn’t that term inappropriate and inaccurate when discussing a fetus? It turned my stomach to read that. Totally turned me off to whatever point you were trying to make.

      • Divaliscious11 :

        Because Pro-choice doesn’t equal pro-abortion, to me anyway. pro-choice means that the individual woman is permitted to make a decision about her body and her life without the interference of others, since ultimately it is her life that will be impacted by the decision. I am not pro-death penalty.

        What confounds me are people who are pro-life, but want to cut all manner of safety nets that provide support for the child after it has been born……

        • health care anon :

          Pro-choice= the woman is permitted to make decisions regarding her health, body and life based on her own unique perspective (which includes her own religious preference, upbringing, socio-economic status, current and past physical and mental health, and anything else that could impact a person’s belief system). What is moral and right by my standards, is not necessarily moral and correct by anyone else’s unique standards. I would not impose my moral will on anyone else, and would expect others to do the same.

    • Catholic anon. :

      Long reply, but I don’t think it’s a snarky or weird one… hopefully just enlightening and helping people to see one way of thinking about the issue.

      I think of abortion as the voluntary ending of a non-life threatening pregnancy. It doesn’t matter the reason. I think to voluntarily end the life of your own child is a grave thing indeed, regardless of how the child is conceived. It is very, very sad to think of the people who are raped and then become pregnant, and honestly I am not sure I have a practical solution for those people. But, when those people get abortions, as sad as their situations are, it’s still a very grave thing that they have ended their children’s lives. I don’t really think that there are “exceptions” to what makes abortion grave or not. In my eyes, the life of an innocent child is ended with abortion.

      However, I do not consider medical intervention necessary to treat another condition, that also ends the life of a child, to be an abortion (in the same manner that a voluntary termination is). I suppose this would be the ‘life of the mother’ case. The Catholic Church allows for this sort of treatment under the law of double effect. Essentially it says that a treatment (to cure a separate condition) that happens to kill a fetus as a side effect is permissible. Now, you will have apologists debating often how specifically the law of double effect can be applied to very specific conditions (ex., is it allowed for chemo therapy, a tubal pregnancy, etc.), but this debating itself is nuanced, and the CCC does not specifically outline what medical conditions qualify and what don’t. But the allowance itself is there, so I believe that makes the application of the law of double effect a little more liberal (and thus, if a woman and her doctor were to make a decision based on the law of double effect, whether or not that decision is morally permissible I believe would be more on the woman’s level of comfort and her concious vs. something coded explicitly in the CCC). So, basicallyI view the pregnancy termination more as a medical treatment (vs. an abortion), so it’s not really the same thing.

      Where the line gets gray here is when you are talking pallative medical abortions to cease the lives of fetuses with terminal genetic conditions. The most common example is anencephaly, a condition where a child will live usually only a few days at most (usually a few hours). The general (and possibly official?) Catholic consensus is that it is not permissible to end such a pregnancy, but if you consider that carrying such a pregnancy to term may induce other conditions in the mother such that the law of double effect would eventually apply to treat those conditions… well, see how it can get confusing? This is probably the one area of abortion/medical termination that I struggle with. On the one hand, there are some truly horrifying things that can go wrong with a fetus and to not medically terminate could cause hemorage, infection, or a host of other issues in the mother. But, on the other hand, it starts a slippery slope if you go down that way. If you can get rid of a baby with anencephaly, why not a baby with Down Syndrome or 3 limbs?

      Ultimately though,I think it is really really hard to legislate abortion policy because there are a lot of gray issues that can come up (see above). Sadly I think it’s an impossibility to think there will be a world where there is no abortion. It is just a fact of life. I do not think that outlawing abortion will get the numbers down. Abortion is a choice a person makes from within, so you need to change the factors that motivate that person from within. What will get abortion numbers down is promoting things like family values, stable marriages, non-wreckless **x decisions, things like that.

      But that means though that from a policy perspective, I look for a couple things in abortion policy. One is that it is a decision left up to the states. I think that states should be able to decide how rigorously they want to pass those sorts of laws. Second is that I think abortion in general should be restricted as much as possible with clear guidelines about what can and can’t be done. I favor policy that sets a limited threshold on when a completely elective abortion can be had.

      But, for those very very sad cases (of rape, extreme fetal medical conditions, etc.) all I can do is say that I hope in the future, people can help to build better support networks for those people, work to develop readily available information, promote charities that give prenatal/medical care and/or adoption help… things like that. I do not think abortion is ever the answer, though there are a lot of sad circumstances out there that make me wish terrible things did not exist and we didn’t find ourselves as humans in the situation of wondering if it is okay to justify one evil with another evil. My role in it is to tryto be as supportive as I can of people who find themselves in the situation of choosing life and helping them through that as best I can so they do not feel like abortion is the only way out.

      On a short death penalty note, the Catholic Church (CCC 2267) does permit the death penalty. Although Catholics generally lobby against it and seek to have it abolished (I presume out of motivation with respect to the dignity of all life and the spirit of Christian mercy), it is nonetheless permissible in the case that is is “the only possible way of effectively defending human lives against the unjust aggressor.” So, you can be both pro-life and pro-death penalty from a Catholic perspective.

      • This time just C :

        This is very well written and generally explains my non-Catholic thinking on these issues. Thank you for writing it so well.

      • Blonde Lawyer :

        I had no idea the Catholic Church allowed for the death penalty. I guess it is the same provision that allows police officer’ to shoot or the military to shoot and still be in good standing.

        • When I was going through confirmation, my priest explained it as “The Church allows for the death penalty as a last resort to protect innocent lives.” He then went on to explain that in the U.S., a life sentence is sufficient to protect society, so the death penalty should be abolished. In other countries with a less secure incarceration system, the death penalty is permitted by the Church.

      • This is great. Thank you for posting. I’m pro-choice (I don’t believe the initial cluster of cells is a person) but I do think that the most principled pro-life stance is no exceptions except for life (and health?) of the mother. I find exceptions for rape and incest to suggest that there are other factors creeping in (like being a disadvantaged parent is the punishment for s3x outside marriage, especially since that burden typically falls most heavily on the woman).

      • Praxidike :

        I am genuinely curious about something. You’ve presented an excellent theological argument for why abortion is impermissible in the Catholic Church. But that’s solely religious, and our government is secular. So how is legislating anti-abortion laws and regulations not, in effect, violating the First Amendment by legislating religion?

        • Mrs. Jed Bartlett :

          See my comment above. Because lots of people who live in this country and have the right to vote think that this country should be a Christian theocracy and if those of us who disagree don’t like it, we can “move back” to wherever we came from. I mean, really, how else do you explain people like Mourdach, Akins, Bachman, Palin.

          • Catholic anon. :

            To MJB and also Prax, just because certain values or philosophies are different than yours does not automatically equate them to wanting to institute a theocracy. Many atheists admit (and even champion) that values can be had outside of religion. Reality actually shows this as well, since not all atheists are raping, pillaging murderers and most are in fact perfectly good and kind people. It is true that many things commonly accepted to be “moral” have theological roots, but most of those principles (if not all) can be defended from completely secular/humanistic perspectives.

          • Let’s keep this civilized. I think this has been very informative so far and think we can keep it that way.

          • Mrs. Jed Bartlett :

            I agree that not all ethics is religion based. Look at Epictetus, for example.

            But my observation is that most politicians and voters in the US who want to legislate morality are hardcore Christian and think that I should have to live by their (Christian) rules. You don’t see Orthodox Jewish politicians trying to pass legislation forcing all women to cover our heads and sit on the other side of the room. Or Muslim politicians trying to pass legislation that we all have to pray five times a day. Or Buddhist politicians trying to pass legislation that … (whatever Buddhists do).

            I am making a data driven observations, that’s all.

          • Those aren’t morality based laws. You don’t see harcore Christians trying to pass laws to make sure no one works on Sunday. The only rules they are trying to pass are morality based one, not religious ones. I don’t agree with them but your analogy is not even close, and your tone was very disrespectful.

        • Catholic anon. :

          This sort of stance can be easily taken without a religious or Catholic background. It is possible to legislate against abortion without presuming that such legislation means theocracy.

          Here is one way to think about how this is possible. All human embyos are unique. The moment a sperm and egg unite, they fuse to create a being that ceased to exist before that very moment. It contains a genetic code wholly unique to itself. No other living organism in the history of the universe has been exactly alike to it, and no other living organism in the future of the universe ever will be exactly alike to it. It is its own creature with its own unique potential to develop into something that is you or I. It IS you or I in its makeup. It is possible to view this unique creation as alive. Afterall, it is certainly not dead. It may not have a concious as you or I think of one, but if it is not dead, it is alive. If a protazoa is considered alive, then so is a zygote/embryo/fetus. It breathes, it eats, it utilizes oxygen and nutrients.

          So, if you see and believe strongly in not needlessly killing an innocent living thing, but more specifically if you see and believe strongly that this living thing deserves to be preserved because it is wholly unique, wholly human, and wholly representative of what becomes a human, you can believe it is wrong to interfere with its development.

          For further resources on the secular perspective of why it is unncessary to have a religious argument to be pro-life, please check out Libertarians for Life.

        • The Catholic church says murder is wrong; it is also illegal. Same thing. Just because the Catholic church agrees doesn’t mean it is solely religious. If you think it is murder, you think it should be illegal regardless, and there are plenty of atheists who are pro-life.

          • Divaliscious11 :

            The Catholic Church also says pre-marital sex is wrong, it is not, however,illegal.
            Cancer is also a group of living cells that didn’t exist before, yet no one opposes chemotherapy.

          • Catholic anon. :

            Diva, cancer cells may be unique, but they are not unique and wholly human. :-)

            Also, I am not sure what pre-marital **x has to do with anything here. My point and I assume Anon’s point is that just because I happened to explain my position from a Catholic perspective (the OP asked how people justify the stance of no abortion but allow certain exceptions) does not mean that you obligatorily need the religious backing to justify the stance. There are a lot of secular reasons why people could oppose pre-marital **x as well. There are a lot of secular reasons why people could defend/opposed a lot of things you can defend/oppose on religious grounds as well.

          • Praxidike :

            There are plenty of atheists who are pro-life? Maybe. I don’t know any, but I’ll accept that as true. Even if it’s true, that doesn’t change the fact that the people attempting to legislate these laws and restrictions are doing it from a religious standpoint. I cannot think of one pro-life politician who is doing it from a secular standpoint because doing it from a secular standpoint would not appease the religious right.

      • Divaliscious11 :

        This makes perfect sense for Catholics. But if you aren’t Catholic, why should your belief hold sway? Not dissing Catholicism, just saying it is one set of beliefs.

        • Catholic anon. :

          The question was how particular people can justify being anti-abortion, but pro-certain exceptions. So, I answered that question. It just happened to be from a Catholic perspective and I explained how the different conditions can be reconsiled with each other.

          But, it’s also possible to hold these same views without religion. I could just think that way you know, religion or not. Besides, most points can be defended from a secular/humanistic perspective as well.

          • Divaliscious11 :

            I am certainly open to believing that there is a secular position here, but it sure seems everyone advocating for pro-life is doing it from a religious perspective…

      • health care anon :

        +1 to this part: “Abortion is a choice a person makes from within, so you need to change the factors that motivate that person from within”

        While I don’t necessarily agree with your ideas of changing factors (I would focus on contraception, proper sex education, more educational and vocation opportunities for women, etc) this is a wonderful point, and one that often gets clouded in the morality debate of abortion. If you want to prevent abortions, you must look at the cause, just like anything else. Prevention is key.

      • Charlotte :

        This is so well-said, and it reflects my beliefs about these issues. I am a Catholic as well and could not have put my feelings better.

    • Statutesq :

      **scared to post but doing it anyway***

      I’m not sure if you’d classify me as pro-life or not, but I’ll explain how I view the issue. To me the baby at the second of conception is a life. So the question that’s posed in my mind is not whether abortion is ok because of whether we’re dealing with a life or not, from a scientific standpoint. The question is a legal one of when to place the life of one individual (baby) over the other individaul (mom)–almost equivalent to “justified killing” exceptions to murder recognized by the legal system. Assuming other people think that me, that may be why they are pro-life but believe in exceptions for rape, etc.

      • momentsofabsurdity :

        I believe life begins at conception (actually I believe life begins BEFORE conception, but I believe conception forms a human) and I am pro choice, for whatever that’s worth.

        I believe when you have an abortion, you’re killing a human life. I just don’t think it should be illegal because I believe our society has determined that there are places where killing is justified, and I think this should be one of them. I also believe no one’s right to life is inalienable if it infringes on another person’s right, and a fetus’s life necessarily infringes upon its mother’s rights. No one would MAKE me give a kidney to someone, even if they need my kidney to live. No one should make me house a human for nine months, even if that human needs my body to live.

        • Thank you for posting momentOA. I think this is where I am too, and you articulated it really well. My strategy so far in life has been to kind of put my head in the sand about it, because it gives me bad feelings because I do think you are killing a human life. But I would not want it to be illegal and I haven’t explored my thoughts enough to reconcile those two ideas.

        • Frou Frou :

          This sums it up for me, too, MOA.

      • I consider myself very pro-choice, but this is basically where I am. I believe life starts at conception, but I also believe that a person doesn’t have to let another person live inside her internal organs if she doesn’t want to. And I especially do not think that the government should be able to force you to let another person live inside your internal organs and subsequently expel that person in a process that would meet any definition of torture and which has a risk of killing you.

        • Thanks to everyone who responded!

          • I gotta say ladies, I wanted to avoid this dicussion like the plague…but I’m impressed with the civility.


          • Susan (edna_mode_nyc) :

            Yes, I have only been in one other community* that was able to have an intelligent, civilized discourse on this topic. So glad to have found another. Am both awed and proud of all of us here. I’m only sorry I missed this discussion because of fun with podiatrist (re: bunions).

            *began online, became IRL, and then “the Big Chill” happened.

        • I just want to say, this is the most civilized discussion of abortion that I’ve ever seen. I doubt anyone is going to change anyone else’s mind, but it’s nice to read reasoned disagreements that don’t verge into insults.

          Here’s something I’m curious about: For those that don’t believe the government should have the ability to control a mother’s choices (a decision I respect but disagree with), if you are pro Affordable Care Act (“Obamacare”), how do you reconcile that with the Independent Payment Advisory Board and how it is projected to narrow healthcare choices? The entire point of the IPAB is to use price controls to discourage expensive treatment options. The de facto effect is the government making healthcare decisions for individuals.

          • OfCounsel :

            I have a friend whose insurance carrier did not want to pay for her reconstructive surgery after a mastectomy. I had to fight my health insurance carrier tooth and nail to get them to pay the bill when I was hospitalized following an auto accident (I did not get pre-approval and was not unconscious). Right now many people with private insurance have someone else making decisions about what will be paid for and what will not. I am not sure why having the government making healthcare decisions is worse than having my HMO makign them.

          • Divaliscious11 :

            How is it any different than insurance companies deciding procedures are to risky to cover, or when employers buy a policy with certain things excluded. But when that happens, I have the choice to pay out of my own pocket or change policies. Making something illegal takes away choice, except for those with means. They can do what they’ve always done. Fly somewhere where it is safe and legal.

        • SoCalAtty :

          DC Jenny I really like your response. For me, it comes from a position of “control” – regardless of my position on when life begins, it is an issue of individual control of what happens inside one’s own body versus the government’s ability. Of course there are grey areas and lines to be drawn, but that’s the essence of it.

          As for the death penalty…I don’t like how much money it costs the state, I don’t like the major mistakes that have been made, but I’m not for getting rid of it entirely. There are still instances (maybe more than ever today) where the conviction is solid, as would be the reason for execution – but I guess there are more instances of large heaps of social media driven circumstantial evidence existing due to social media/internet too…so it’s tough. I’d prefer reform over it being abolished. That is pretty absolute. Then again, so is the death penalty. Also, I think the reason why this is probably the most civilized discussion on abortion/death penalty ever is because, at least for me, law school warped my brain. Not that everyone on here is a lawyer (and thank goodness for that!) but I think any kind of professional analytical training does interesting things to the thought process.

    • Notalawyer :

      Adding to the discussion this article. Anyone else here follow Scalzi’s site?

      It may be too late in the day for this discussion, but I’m posting in case anyone has missed it.

      The commenters are interesting too.

  3. SF Bay – saw your comment from the morning thread. Totally agree re: the horizontal seam and I am jealous of your new pair!

    • SF Bay Associate :

      Once I saw that horizontal seam I said to myself… should have listened to internet friend Cat. Thanks!

  4. Almost There :

    So bar results come out in my state tomorrow morning. I started my law firm job at the begining of October, and keep imagining scenarios of what will happen if I find out I didn’t pass tomorrow. I have no idea how I would be able to actually go in to work and deal with interacting with everyone. Obviously I’m prematurely freaking out, but I’m just trying to think of my actions for worst case scenario. Did any of you start work before you found out you didn’t pass the bar? How did you handle it?

    • I guarantee you that at least one of your colleagues didn’t pass the first time around. While you’re in the thick of the anxiety it’s easy to think that not passing consigns you to a life of riding the rails or selling those glowing necklaces on the subway, but lots of successful lawyers who go on to have enviable carreers didn’t pass the first time. If you don’t pass, you’ll take it again, and it will be OK.

      But I’m sure you passed. :)

    • Hi, just wanted to clarify I have been posting as “Almost There” pretty frequently, and this isn’t me, just so we don’t get confused :)

      Fingers crossed for your bar passage!

    • AnonInfinity :

      I did pass, but I had to check my results at work. Not sure how your state handles these things, but my state posts the results on a public website at a preordained date and time, and it’s just a long list of everyone’s name. I had all these visions of everyone in my firm logging onto the list and looking at it at the same time as me and we all find out I didn’t pass together. I decided that if I didn’t pass, I’d just collect my things as quickly as possible and jet to the elevator.

      I worked with someone who didn’t pass, and he did this — He stayed in his office until he could collect himself, then he came out to my desk (which was on its way to the door) and said, “My name’s not on the list.” Then he hightailed it out before anyone had a chance to come talk to him.

      If it’s an email just to you, you can always tell your assistant that you’re not feeling well and go home for the rest of the day.

      Good luck, and I hope all this planning is for nothing! I felt ok after the test, but as result day got closer, I started having horrible feelings that there’s no way I’d passed. I passed on, and it all ended up just fine.

      • This is how my state is – it’s just a public website with a list of names – and a number of people at my firm did in fact check for my name the morning results were released (small firm). I actually found out I passed not from the website but from co-workers calling to congratulate me because they got to the website before I did.

        Anyway, OP, good luck, try to calm down, and remember even if you don’t pass plenty of people don’t the first time and they go on to lead happy and productive lives.

      • Mid-day results stink... :

        I also had to check my results at work, and it was super stressful. To make matters worse, the website was being glitchy because of the traffic to it, and my co-clerks both got in and saw their results before I did…and then I had to face the moment of truth with them as well as all the judges who were in the office at the time hanging over my shoulders. Thankfully, I passed. I don’t know what I would have done otherwise.

    • Practice what you will say if you don’t pass. I’m also waiting for results and I’ve practiced it in my head a bunch of times: “I didn’t pass the bar. I’m disappointed, but confident that I know what I need to do to pass it in February.” Say it enough times so that you BELIEVE it. Then if you don’t pass, you’ll be prepared.

      Good luck.

  5. Boom, purchased in the red color. I have been looking for something to spice up my basic black work shoe collection, and this is just the thing – and in a wide width too! Thanks, Kat!

  6. Research, Not Law :

    What’s your go-to work outfit on the days when you wish you could just wear yoga pants and a sweatshirt?

    • TO Lawyer :

      A dress that feels like the equivalent of work PJs. So a sweater dress or a stretchy knit dress. I may look pulled together but I’m definitely really happy and comfy. My little secret that I tend to employ on big drafting days when I know I’ll be sitting all day.

    • Ponte pants and a sweater or an un-tucked silk button-down blouse.

      A more dressy comfy outfit option is a pencil skirt with lots of stretch, tights, a stretchy t-shirt, and a sweater jacket or ponte blazer.

    • I have a pair of gray pants that I randomly got on sale from Eileen Fisher. Not my most fashion forward or flattering pair, but they feel like pajamas. I wear that and a soft sweater and throw a jacket over the back of my chair so I don’t look totally out of it if someone comes for a visit.

      • mamabear :
        10/25/2012 at 5:36 pm
        And do you feel a woman sentenced to carry to term a baby she doesn’t want is going to take care of her body/ avoid drugs and alcohol / get proper prenantal care? Or do we lock up mama until she delivers?
        Remember, the actual population likely to get into this situation is not the readership here.

        Seriously? Not one of you found this offensive? What situation precisely?

    • LBD and cardigan.

    • Target ponte elbow length dress with a ponte jacket around if needed.

    • Cashmere turtleneck and pull-on a-line sweater skirt. It feels like cheating.

    • I’ve got a sleeveless grey dress from H&M that I actually love, but always wear on days I feel like blah (actually, wearing it right now.) I throw it on with a different cardigan or blazar, and people think I decided to get dressed up. No one knows :)

    • I’ve been having that problem all week, especially since daylight savings is still a week away.

      I’ve alternated between the Gap premium pants in various colors and cords (JCrew, Land’s End, etc) with long-sleeved tees (red, orange, brown, and deep pink).

      • Oh, and I’ve been commuting in clogs, but I keep a pair of Aerosole closed-toe wedges under my desk.

    • Every month end – knit dress, tights & a cardigan. I have a couple of dresses I call my pj dresses.

    • Eileen Fisher. Feels like jammies.

    • uber stretchy work dress + cardi

      I should add, most of my dresses are uber comfy!

    • I have several sleeveless knit sheaths i like to call my “sweatshirt sacks”. They feel like wearing a giant sweatshirt. in other words, amazing. I wear them with tights, a cardigan and flats on days when i just can’t. I seem to have those days about 3x a week, btws.

    • That is what i am wearing today!!! I stared at those yoga pants for soooo long…. it was a very difficult decision.

      But same as most of the above. Today I went with:

      -Black ponte pants (from LE Canvas)
      – long tunic button front shirt (Old Navy?)
      – long waterfall sweater that covers my rear
      – flat boots

      – leggings
      – jersey dress
      I have a bunch of long sleeve dresses from Horny Toad that are Sooooooo comfy, and a few other long sleeve jersey or sweater dresses that are long enough that i can wear them over leggings and boots.

      – Also: heating pad for my tummy on day 2 of Shark Week.

    • A silky blouse, very soft fitted cardigan, comfy pants and flats.
      This has been my uniform for the past weeks as we’re going through a rough patch.
      I am so planning on getting out the skirts and dresses and heels.. just not now

    • eastbaybanker :

      My fat pants and flats! My fat pants are gray wool trousers almost a size too big and are still comfy when I’m bloated. I find that not wearing heels results in a lot more comfort than any particular outfit.

    • I read this as “what is your go to sweatshirt” and I was like oh my gosh, I have so many I love, depending on the weather and how warm and cuddly I want to be. I’m so glad someone else has this problem!

  7. Need a recommendation for a DC attorney who handles wills and advance directives. Thanks.

    • DC Association :

      Do you have an EAP? Suggest calling them as many times they can refer you to an attorney who will provide a discount on these services. (I just suggested the same thing yesterday to someone else…no I don’t work for an EAP nor am I an attorney. just someone who used her EAP for such a cause!)

    • John Lassiter is VA, but I believe metro accessible. trusttolast is the website.

  8. Am I imagining it or has this shoe been featured here before?

    • Research, Not Law :

      I thought it looked familiar, too.

      • It has been. Got it on the final sale plus 30 per cent off last spring. I am currently wearing mine right now.

    • I think i posted it as a rec for someone whose narrow heel was slipping out of their shoes a few months/weeks ago, too. I was pointing out that i always look for shoes with a strap/maryjane/high vamp, but they dont have to look frumpy. This was an example of a super cute shoe that would hold me in, and has a sturdy heel. Love it! Might have to buy it in red, ack!

  9. What do you all think about putting on makeup at the office? I am more often running late for work than not, and so I frequently do my makeup at work. What are the rules of doing it at your desk or in the bathroom?

    • Maddie Ross :

      Not sure there are rules, but I personally feel funny putting on a full face in the bathroom at work in the morning. I have done it in my car in the morning in the parking garage though. I also touch up at my desk as needed during the day (usually only with a pesky zit, etc.).

      • Maddie Ross :

        Yeah, should add, I do have a door and close it when applying makeup.

    • Work bathroom, not desk, unless you have an office with a door that can close.

      • Follow up — 1. work bathroom even if it’s shared with other women? and 2. Desk with door that closes, even though if the door is closed, someone might knock and let themselves in? It feels risky to me.

        • Yes, even if the bathroom is shared with other women. I work in cubicle-land, so that’s what I do. If you had the door closed and someone just came in, THEY should feel embarrassed, not you. In your case, I’d do either.

          Also, everybody’s doing their business in their bathroom! Besides toilet usage, people brush their teeth, too. Putting on makeup seems like the most inoffensive thing to me (unless you’re spraying perfume and hairspray all over the place, let’s try not to do that).

    • karenpadi :

      I don’t wear make-up to work on a daily basis (only one of the six female attorneys here does but she only comes in two days/week).

      So, if I have a lunch or dinner that requires make-up (once or twice a week), I do my make-up in the bathroom. I’ve also run into the other female attorneys doing their make-up in the bathroom before heading out for the night. We all have offices with doors that close.

    • Kontraktor :

      Eh, I don’t know. I think putting on a lot in the work bathroom is fine. I put on lipstick at my desk.

    • I work in a cubicle farm so it’s work bathroom for me!
      I have a very specific 9 to 5 makeup routine that I do in 11 minutes, so instead of disappearing for 15 minutes, I split the routine in 2 and go twice to (different) bathrooms on the building and I’m done.
      The only makeup item I might use at my desk would be lip balm or maybe a quick swipe of lipstick (I bend under the desk as if I were to pick something up).

    • Meg Murry :

      Not a lawyer, but I pretty much only wear powder, mascara and a touch of blush when I wear makeup. I’m always running late, to the point that those 3 items just live in my car and I put them on in the parking lot every morning. If I were going to put on something like foundation or stain that was going to get on my hands I would apply in the bathroom though – icky to walk around with makeup on my fingers, IMO.

    • eastbaybanker :

      I often redo my makeup before going out straight from work. I avoid any coworkers seeing me by going to a bathroom on a different floor of the building. I do lipstick touch ups at my desk very quickly when I’m certain I’m not in a line of site.

      I know it’s mean, but whenever I see people doing makeup or their nails at work I think they aren’t pulling their weight and must not care about their job if they are more worried about their cuticles than their customers.

  10. Suit Jacket :

    How do you decide whether to button your suit jacket (I guess I’m talking about when standing)? Do you think it looks weird when you button? It’s just a regular two button jacket (super 120s from J Crew).

    • e_pontellier :

      I have that jacket — grey and black — and I usually button both buttons when standing because I think it looks better. But I’m in law school and could be totally wrong about that.

    • I think it is a matter of preference, fit, and build. I always button mine, but am fairly flat-chested. I think that other body types look better or may prefer to wear open jackets.

    • Frou Frou :

      I generally wear mine unbuttoned all the time, until (and unless) I am speaking before a judge or formally before a group of people. For this reason, I am one of those who never purchases suit jackets that I cannot comfortably wear buttoned up.

    • Always buttoned if I am standing. I once saw a federal judge dress down three men for not buttoning their suits when standing. He was thrilled that he saw me button mine as I stood, but was displeased that none of the men thought to do the same.

      Buttoned feels more put together and comfortable to me. I am large chested and leaving it open just looks sloppy.

  11. J Crew Fu? :

    I know we have some Nordie’s Ninjas… does anyone practice J Crew Fu? I am so lusting after the Icon Trench in wool/cashmere in Cabernet, but they don’t have it in my size, and I even asked the live chat person to search their inventory. Can someone please make this coat appear in a 10 or 12 like magic? kthx!

    • Isn’t that coat gorgeous? If I knew what my J Crew coat size was, I’d be sorely tempted.

      • Actually, if anyone can help — in the current J Crew sizing craziness, what size coat would you recommend if I wear: a 6 in the origami dress; a 10 (with alterations — I have booty but no b**bies) emmaleigh dress; and typically wear 8/10 on bottom and 6/8 on top?

      • J Crew Fu? :

        You’d also have to be very lucky, cause they only have it left in a 16 (so says J crew live chat dude). Harumph.

    • (former) Clueless Summer :

      If you are really dedicated…you can check the site frequently for what j. crewenthusiasts call the pop-back. things get returned, etc. and sometimes sizes will pop back but you have to put it in your cart and race through checkout.

      • OMG I GOT A SIZE 10 ON POPBACK THIS MORNING! YAY!!! $181 for a coat this beautiful, holy cow!

        Sorry I’m not sorry for ELLEN caps :)

  12. Pity party alert!
    My car’s in the shop, a colleague is about to get a really rude email for being a moron and I didn’t get enough sleep last night. I think I need to go read some Calvin and Hobbes until quittin’ time. :/

    • Pity party for me too! I had to replace the right front tire (and wheel!) on my car a couple months ago because of the terrible stupid roads up here in ye old north. And today my husband brought my car into the shop and it turned out the reason my back right wheel had been low was because it got punctured by a nail (! how does that happen to me) and now that tire has to be replaced to. GROUSE GROUSE GROUSE.

      • I had that happen on 2 tires last fall in the SAME week!

        • Yep. Happened to me twice within a short time. Found out that the reason why one of my tires had a slow leak forever was a tiny nail. So glad I have a new car now! But oddly, it didn’t come with a spare and I won’t live without one here. Had to have one installed for $300.

      • I had 8 blowouts in 2 years on one of my cars. Since I’ve gotten a new one, I’ve had two nails, a blowout, and yesterday my tire light came on saying one is low. I will join you: GROUSE GROUSE GROUSE.

      • Get Michelin tires! They’re pricey but 100% guaranteed up to between 40 and 70k miles depending on the type. Plus, I’m in Boston and need tires that can stand up to the snow/ice anyway.

        DH had to drag me kicking and screaming to get them but after we splurged, the blowouts stopped (and they were fully guaranteed anyway). Magic.

  13. On the subject of J Crew. I am in love with the chiffon dot top (especially in the “dublin green” color). Anybody seen anything similar for half the price? Needs to come in a size 16. Link to folow.

    • Here it is in all it’s green glory:

      • Merabella :

        Not in green, but I have a cream version from JC Penny that I love (and wore yesterday).

      • Keep an eye on the J. Crew factory store site. It seems to me that most of the basics/bestsellers from regular J. Crew get reproduced there on a delay of a few months.

      • I love this! “My” J.Crew just split into a mens store and a womens store at the mall, but their inventory seems kind of small. I mean they have the Tippi in ALL THE COLORZ (seriously) but it seems like most of what they added was a shoe space and a wall dedicated to scarves.

  14. SF Bay Associate :

    My friend just sent me the link to the biglaw Tumblr. I am laughing so hard that my eyes are tearing.

  15. Separation/Divorce and Financial Issues :

    Guise, I’ve posted about this before and forgive me for doing so again. I’m just at a loss. There’s nothing anyone can probably say, really, but just needed to send this out to the hive. sorry this is so long!

    -I’ve been separated for over a year. We have a 6 yo child.
    -stbX quit his job shortly after we separated. He’s been unemployed most of the time. (underemployed for part of it, just to get some income, which I fully supported)
    -we live in a rowhouse which is under renovations, he is doing all the renovations himself.
    -he cashed out his 401(k) at the end of last year, to fund said renovations and also so he’d have money to live on. ALL the money is gone.
    -i have asked him to move out multiple times so I can gain some perspective. he has not due to $$.
    -adequate taxes were not withheld from the 401(k) disbursement. he owed $20k to the IRS for which there is a monthly payment installment.
    -there still is a joint bank account. I do not use this account. this is where some auto-payments come from, including said 401(k) payment, his life insurance, 529 plan contribution…all “his” bills.

    Soo…for the third time, this account has a negative balance. I told him last month that he needed to either deposit money into this account or redirect where payments were made, but that has not occurred. He said a few months ago that he was going to borrow money from his parents. I also found lying around the house a loan agreement between him and one of his friends in the amount of $5k. the $5k was not deposited into the joint account so not sure where it went. Today I said asked what happened, you said you were going to take care of this but you didn’t (one bill cleared so at least that was paid. Forget the fact that there are $100s in friggin fees for insufficient balances, etc). he says he is going to ask his parents for $$ (which makes me think he never got a loan from then when he first said he was going to ask them). My worry is that the IRS payment bounced – I asked if he took care of that one but he did not respond (this is all via text, I’m at work).

    I’m at the end of my rope, I don’t know what to do. I am paying all the bills on my own, which I can do but I don’t have money to pay these other bills. However with the IRS, gee they can hold me accountable since we were married when the disbursement occurred or forget that, they can put a lein on our house.

    We plan to sell our house so we can move on (no pun intended) but we cannot sell until he’s finished the renovations. He does not work diligently to get the renovations done (I won’t segue into an explanation on that!) so who the h*ll knows when it will be done.

    Someone suggested to me to refinance and get some $$ out of our house (we have plenty of equity and live in an area where home prices are stable)…but since he does not work, I don’t see how this is possible on just my salary.

    We (stupidly, I now realize) have whole life insurance, so another option is for him to cash out the policy and just get term. There’s some money there but of course its a loss b/c he hasn’t had it long enough for that to even out, but whatever. However…he is clinically depressed so if he were to try and cancel that policy and get another…he might not even qualify. I asked him 2x to contact the insurance company to discuss options…maybe there is a way to stick with the same company and just convert to term. But who knows. I could look into all this myself but I can’t continue to be an enabler…he’s got to learn to deal with these types of things himself.

    ARGH! I met with my attorney last week to tell him I wanted to proceed with the divorce. I have the paperwork all ready. I’m going to hand it over next week to the stbX. however, this doesn’t really help with this financial situation now.

    Can i get a RAWR?

    • Internet hugs your way. And internet martinis. You will get through this, and it will be so much better.

    • Rawr! Can you just pay someone to finish the renovations? Seems like this dude is capable of dragging it out forever and keeping you captive with his irresponsibility and procrastination.

      • Separation/Divorce and Financial Issues :

        I wish. I have nowhere to get money to pay someone. I’ve already borrowed money from my parents and don’t want to borrow anymore. It’s a catch-22. One we sell the house, will have plenty of money. But until then, none. I have a 0% interest credit card until May…but not enough of a balance on it to finish the work. anyway, this is what all my friends and family say…he’s dragging his feet with the reno b/c he knows when it’s done, it’s all over.

        Thanks to all for the big rawrs!

        • Around here there are “We Buy Ugly Houses” people that will buy a house that they can fix and flip pretty quickly. Obviously, they pay less than what you could get post-renovation, but maybe it would be “enough”?

          Not sure if that’s helpful, but hugs to you!

    • Oh dear HUGS AND RAWRS TO THE MAXIMUM!!!!!!!!!!

    • Blonde Lawyer :

      Do you work in a job where you need good credit? If not, you should move out, with the kid. Open your own account and that is where your salary goes. As for the IRS, look into whether you qualify as an innocent spouse. I don’t want to link or I’ll end up in moderation but google will get you there. For the house, forget the renovations. Grab a realtor and throw it up for sale. Contact your lender and tell them what is going on. You should qualify for a short sale because of the divorce and his medical status and job status. Often to short sell, you have to fall behind so you with the right advice, stop paying for the house. Sell it for what it is worth now. Yes there may be tax consequences but you already owe the IRS, right? Add it to the payment plan. It is time for you to look out for your and your kid and to leave the ex to fend for himself. Last time you wrote in I warned about all the things the court can force you to do to support him. However, he has to ask for these things. If he isn’t going to get a lawyer and isn’t going to do anything to help himself, you can likely get through this with an order in your favor. All my advice goes out the window if you are in a job where a ding to your credit costs your career. Last piece of advice, if you can, buy a new property in your name only before you smash your credit.

      • Separation/Divorce and Financial Issues :

        Blonde, thank you for this advice. I already have my own account which I have been using and paying all bills with since January 1.

        Problem with selling house as-is, is that it is 90% complete. Someone would have to finish execution of an established design. It isn’t like the kitchen is gutted and someone has a blank slate.

        I will look into the innocent spouse and contact my current lender. I will consider the rest. Easier said than done about taking my son and moving out. the stbX does not have an attorney and he has already violted our sep agreement (house not done on date agreed upon), so my attny says we can play hardball and he can be found in contempt.

        I need to balance my tendency to be a good person and protecting myself financially. It is hard because he is the father of my child, I don’t think he is a bad person, he’s just living in an alternate reality. Honestly I want to be able to move on with peace.

        All that said – I definitely need reality checks like everything you say, so I appreciate your candor!

        • LadyEnginerd :

          Ok, Blonde Lawyer said it better than me, and with more life experience. I do think you’re letting the renovations be “incomplete” cloud your thinking. People buy entire houses that are 90% complete, or with the intention of gutting the kitchen. Maybe invest in some pretty drawings of what the kitchen could look like when finished, and then put it on the market. You don’t actually know how trapped you are with the house as is until you consult with a realtor and put it on the market.

        • Meg Murry :

          Even if the repair is only 90% complete, I would bring in a realtor now and get their opinion. My husband & I bought a house that was only partially renovated because we really needed to move, got a good deal on it because of its partially renovated state and we were handy enough to finish it ourselves. Either way, you’re going to need a realtor, so you might as well talk to one now and get their professional opinion about putting it on the market now vs waiting.

          • We also bought a house mid -reno the couple got divorced and we got to finish to our taste.

        • That’s fine about the reno. Some people will like that. You won’t make as much as you would if it were complete, but honestly, it sounds like it would be worth it.

          Also, he is a bad person, right now and in this time period. He is acting very, very badly.

    • Meg Murry :

      If you have plenty of equity in the house, you should apply for a home equity line of credit or home equity loan to do the renovations – they exist for precisely this reason. Some banks even offer loans that are specifically considered construction loans. Then you could have some money to float, and hire out some of the renovations if needed. Its far less paperwork and takes way less time than refinancing the house. We have a HELOC at the same bank as our primary bank account, and its nice because I can transfer money to the checking account as needed.

      • Meg Murry :

        And I would advocate getting a HELOC or HEL, hiring a contractor and kicking your stbX out. Does he have family or somewhere he could go since he couldn’t pay rent without a job? You’ve already said he’s past the agreed upon date to finish the renovations, so I think its time to give up on him finishing and hire it out.

        • Diana Barry :

          Yes. Get a HELOC if you can, kick him out and get someone to finish it asap. Or put on market as is.

    • LadyEnginerd :

      I am naive, but… can you look into putting the house on the market as is? Is the difference between the selling price of “renovated” and “unrenovated” so big that it’s really worth holding out for him to finish (and is he in a state of mind to do them well so they enhance the value of the house)? Sounds like avoiding being liable for his debts is worth taking a hit of several grand on the house. Also, you’re losing money every month you pay the mortgage and he doesn’t contribute. If the amount of time you expect the renovations to take costs you more than the difference in selling price on the house, then I think you need to push to sell as soon as possible.

      Can you step back and think thru this clearly (especially the costs associated with waiting) with a realtor and/or financial adviser? What scenario protects your personal finances the best?

      I prefer margaritas to martinis, so I’ll send you an internet margarita with top-shelf tequila.

    • Sydney Bristow :

      God I’m sorry, divorce is bad enough, let alone being stuck living with him, home renovations, and financial issues.

      Can you get yourself off of the joint bank account? If you aren’t putting any money in it and it is all his bills, then there I don’t see a reason for you to be on it anymore and continually over drafting that account is just adding to the things that you shouldn’t need to be financially responsible for.

      I know you are trying to balance being a good person and protecting yourself, but protecting yourself does not make you a bad person. Yes, he is the father of your child and may be a good guy in other areas of his life, but protecting yourself financially also makes you a good mother. I fear that you and your soon to be ex husband (mainly through his own actions but also somewhat through your hesitation to act) are just digging yourselves into a bigger hole that will be harder to dig out of than stopping the bleeding now even though that will probably cause a more contenious relationship between the two of you.

      I really wish you the best of luck with all of this.

  16. almost there :


  17. Nice shoe, I might have to check this out. I just wore a pair of Naturalizer pumps to a wedding for 10 hours straight, including lots of standing (bridesmaid) and crazy amounts of dancing.

    Has anyone bought a really great top, knit, or suit appropriate t-shirt in white or ivory recently? I swear I’ve looked everywhere and they are all too thin. I just bought everything I could find from Nordstrom and Pendleton and none of them worked.

    • I found a really thick, knit white top at JC Penney.

      • You just earned yourself 1 on-demand Godzilla RAWR for mentioning the JCP.

        • I squee-d EVERY SINGLE TIME I saw JCP mentioned on here. HOW DID YOU KNOW????

    • momentsofabsurdity :

      It’s not knit so it may not work for you but I have sung the praises of this top elsewhere on this blog. I love it.

      • Oooh, that looks promising. My hunt was prompted by finding and buying the perfect white silk Vince top (for > $200) for an interview. But I love it too much to wear every week to the office. So I want to find a cheaper replacement. This is a great suggestion. Thanks!

    • alas, the only thing i have to offer is the gap original tee (NOT any other of their zillion white tees, only the original). it’s not fancy but it is thick.

    • I was surprisingly impressed with these tees from BR.

    • Someone earlier this week or last highly recommended the Jones New York Platinum Knit Silk Shell. Comes in white or ivory, I can’t remember which.

    • I’m thinking about buying this one:

    • My mom sent me a bunch of sleeveless tanks from Coldwater Creek because they were on mega-sale (she loves, loves, loves CC and has been trying to convert me for a while). I grimaced when she told me that and prepared myself to receive some boxy, unflattering shirts that would go straight to the donation bin. Turns out, they were great! I was really impressed by the weight of the fabric and the cut (sort of skims the body, but not tight). If you have a store nearby, I would suggest trying them on for size, then waiting for an online sale and you can snatch them up really cheaply.

  18. Hmm – I wouldn’t really consider this an oxford shoe, but definitely a Mary Jane.

  19. How are Ferragamo ballet flats? I’m thinking of getting a pair of the Varina flats, but some reviews say they’re really comfortable and others say they hurt. Any opinions?

    • I think Ferragamo shoes tend to be best for narrow feet, hence the dichotomy of reviews. If possible, try them on in person as they seem to be the sort of shoe that either works wonderfully or not at all.

      • SF Bay Associate :

        Ferragamo comes in widths! Wide and double wide. I tend to need a bit more room in the toebox, and wear a wide in some Ferragamos, just as I wear a wide in some Cole Haans.

  20. Speaking of comfy clothes for days when all you want to wear is your PJs…

    I went to J Crew at lunch and tried on (and purchased) a pair of their Saturday pants to jazz up my loungewear routine. Oh.My.God. After trying them on I nearly left them on and came back to work in them. They were That.Fricking.Comfortable. Like bunny rabbits and rainbows next to my skin.

    Also, not sure whether this applies in the US, but for the Canadian ‘Ettes, it appears J Crew is having a big 30% off sale on all their already reduced items in their brick-and-mortar stores. I got a pair of Mona Tassel heels that way today – regularly $310, purchased for $130. Score.

    • They’ve been doing the 30% off since last weekend. Which is why I cleaned up at the store Saturday morning. Oops.

  21. Root canal - help! :

    My dentist has said I need a root canal, but left it open ended as to when I can have it. My insurance won’t kick in until Jan. I am on holidays mid Dec to mid Jan.

    I am currently experiencing a throbbing but bareable pain, has anyone left a prognosis like this for 2 months?

    Secondly if worse comes to worse I’ll have it next week. Can anyone give advice or share their experience. Am really nervous about the pain and having the silver showing when I smile. Many thanks for sharing experiences.

    • I basically lived with a cracked tooth for probably that long, and then I finally gave in and went to the dentist. And ended up needing a root canal. So…hold out if you can.

      When you do get it done, it’ll probably get done in two stages while the get the permanent crown made. Ask your dentist (if he doesn’t tell you) if he is having to kill any remaining nerve tissue in the root of the affected tooth. If he is, then get a prescription for pain meds. My dentist told me just to take some tylenol and I’d be fine. He failed to specify a dosage, so I didn’t take enough initially (I don’t know if I COULD have taken enough) and when the novocaine wore off, it HURT. Like major throbbing feverish HURT. Like I called someone at 10pm to bring me ice (b/c my freezer didn’t have trays or an icemaker) b/c it was the only thing I could thing of at that hour that might help. And then I stayed up watching tv b/c it hurt too much to sleep long.

      So, yeah, pain meds if you have any nerve tissue that needs to be killed. That’s my advice.

      Also, I got a white (ceramic? porcelain?) rather than silver filling. I don’t know that I was even given a choice about the filling. So…maybe no silver in your smile?

    • Meg Murry :

      Check to find out if your insurance has a pre-existing condition waiting period. If so, they might not pay for the procedure in January if they find out you consulted a dentist about it now. I don’t think most insurance companies bother to check for smaller claims and tend to save this kind of thing for people with cancer, but it is a possiblity you should look into.

    • I just had two root canals done recently. It might depend on what kind you’re getting (I have no idea if there are differences), but mine really did not hurt that badly. The only part of the procedure that was painful was getting the local anesthetic shots. That’s not fun, but it hurts for like 30 seconds and then for the rest of it you’re totally numb. Afterwards my tooth was too sore to chew on for a couple days, but it was totally manageable by chewing on the other side of my mouth + Motrin.

      As for the silver, mine was covered up with a white crown on a second visit, and it looks like a regular tooth (although mine were in the far back, so it doesn’t really matter).

  22. Gail the Goldfish :

    Americans who don’t live in NYC or San Francisco, good news! Uniqlo has launched online shopping the US. They’re awesome for good quality, not expensive basics. Check is out.

    • Thank you, I am SO excited! I love their merino sweaters!

    • locomotive :

      i’m loving the peplum top in burgundy. i don’t want to pay shipping… but i guess it’ll be ‘worth it’ if i buy enough that shipping is a minimal percentage of that!

      • eastbaybanker :

        If you’re looking at the peplum short sleeve tunic, the fit is kind of crazy. I think it’s supposed to be an oversized casual sweater worn over leggings? I’m normally a size 6-8/M on top. I bought the XS and it is still a bit loose to pair with a skinny belt at the waist. I’m considering tailoring (seems indulgent for a $30 acrylic sweater) or trying to shrink it in the dryer.

  23. What a day. Microwaved my lunch at noon, got a call, had to go talk to a few coworkers, then a meeting and just sat down. Probably past the point of safe consumption now…

    • I am a terrible role model but this wouldn’t phase me at all. I happily ate an 8 day expired yogurt while my coworkers (all twenty something boys who exist off of cornish pasties and microwaveable chips) watched in horror.

      • I heard an NPR piece on the market for expired groceries, which apparently exists because so many of the manufacturer’s “sell by” dates are there for marketing reasons only…and yogurt was a prime example. Nobody wants to eat month-old yogurt, so they put a shorter expiration date. Another example they gave was vinegar, which apparently has a shelf life of like 8+ years…but would YOU buy vinegar that has been on the shelf since 2003?

      • Meg Murry :

        My father always eats really expired yogurt, his quote is “what’s it going to do, get more sour?” I’ve got 2 week past date unopened yogurt in my fridge that I would still eat. I wouldn’t feed it to my 1 year old, but I’ll eat it myself. I am a firm believer in the sniff test. I work in manufacturing (although not food) and some of our expiration dates are fairly arbitrary, so I take “best by” dates as a suggestion, not a rule. As far as the food that’s been sitting out all day, I would probably re-microwave it to steaming before eating to at least make an attempt to kill of whats growing on it.

        I’m not quite this cavalier about yogurt though:

  24. On a lark—is anyone going to SoTeC (Southland Technology Conference) tomorrow or Saturday?

  25. SV in House :

    TPS report: I bought the orange boatneck, side-ruched sweater featured a couple of weeks ago. I’m wearing it today (go Giants!). It is lovely, but the boatneck is way too wide. Hope my dry cleaner can sew it up a bit!

  26. I really want these shoes, probably in black, brown AND red. I am planning to go to the mall tomorrow to find out what size I need. Anyone willing to have them delivered and then send them to Canada for me? I will send you a US money order for the cost of the shipping. I am DROOLING.

  27. Own these in black – they are FANTASTIC for long-wear situations (they are my go-to NYC shoe). Only thing to know is that the heel wears pretty quickly, have gotten it re-heeled three times in the last year. (I hate that sound on pavement when one heel is still there, and the other has metal coming through because it is worn. Maybe I just walk funky).

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