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Here's an odd question today: do you think there is such a thing as old-fashioned career etiquette — things that seem overly formal or even stilted in today's world?
Let me back up — I was preparing to introduce some friends/business acquaintances by email recently, and wondered if I was being overly formal. See, to me, the way you make an introduction is to 1) first ask both parties privately if they’re open to it, 2) then do a joint email “introducing” each to the other with a few short sentences that summarize how I know them, why THEY want to know them (accomplishments, skills, connections) and why I think they should know EACH OTHER. Whoever has the most power in the dynamic is introduced last (so, Dear Queen, please meet Meghan! Meghan is an old pal from college. Blah blah blah… Meghan, please meet the Queen…)
It inevitably takes me about 30-60 minutes to make proper introductions, including checking people's LinkedIn profile to make sure I'm remembering resume details, proofreading for typos, occasionally asking for clarification or preference (such as what name they want to be introduced as if they have a nickname or are recently married/divorced), etc.
I looked it up and this is still the best practice for how to introduce business acquaintances — but like a lot of etiquette issues in general it feels like it might be a bit old-fashioned, stilted, or antiquated. (Another example – I taught myself at a young age to say “How do you do” upon meeting someone, mainly because it was in a Peter Gabriel song and sounded fancy. Now it's truly a knee-jerk reaction to an introduction and I always feel a bit weird having said it — I've definitely gotten a few bemused smirks.)
So I thought this might be a fun discussion, ladies — what are you old-fashioned about in terms of career etiquette? In general, what etiquette (or etiquette-adjacent, like my “how do you do”) things do you still do and then feel self-conscious about? What do you hold the line on, and teach to other people (subordinates, mentees, your kids) as The Correct Way to Do Things?
So let's hear it, ladies — What are you overly formal about in terms of etiquette? IS anything old fashioned in business, or as long as you’re in the same world as septuagenarian senior partners who print their emails and expect you to correspond by fax…
Stock photo via Stencil.
PNW
I was recruited last summer to lead a newly reorganized team for a competitor. When I came on, two of the existing team had been offered spots in the reorg while the remaining 5 have been new hires. All except for a junior position involved relocation.
Now that we’re in the performance/bonus cycle I’m finally seeing the comp info for those positions that were filled before I joined and I’ve got a big disparity to address. One of the staff who stayed from the existing organization is getting paid about 12% less than the newer folks, and also didn’t get any kind of a sign on/loyalty bonus (those weren’t given automatically but those who negotiated for them got them). She hasn’t been the strongest performer on the team, but she is a crucial source of institutional knowledge since she’s been with the company 10 years, and her attitude is fantastic. She’s been upbeat and enthusiastic throughout all the changes, including me having a very different management style than what she was used to. She’s also been an important point of continuity for our customers.
She’s a bit unsophisticated and I think that was used against her when the offers were put together. I don’t begrudge those who negotiated better deals for themselves, and since she isn’t a high performer in the position as it is now I have a hard time justifying an equivalent salary adjustment but I’m thinking of recommending a belated signing bonus at least so she is rewarded for the part she played in a successful transition/rebuild.
Any thoughts or other options I might consider?
Anonymous
Well, a signing bonus would do nothing to address the pay disparity over time … whereas a small raise could begin to narrow it if that’s your goal. I’m also not clear on why you would consider a signing bonus when she’s been there 10 yrs. It seems that this could set a bad precedence for future reorganizations & also would you then need to give the other person who was retained this bonus as well even though they are already being compensated more fairly?
nutella
There are two things to think about when deciding compensation: performance and scarcity. Most bosses focus a lot on the performance as you and your predecessors have. But in this situation, what you are picking up on is the scarcity prong. In other words, how F’d would your team be (either in performance, knowledge, efficiency, timeline/ramp-up of reorg, etc.) if she were to leave? I think a good idea would be to give her a bonus partway to make up for the gap but sit down with her and explain the milestones you want her to achieve so that her performance is up to par. Keep the dialogue open so that she can consult you on meeting those goals over the year and you can guide her on getting there. Then the following year, you close the gap to meet her peers and then get to focus on the performance prong of her comp. It’s quite possible this is the first time she has had a good boss and she hasn’t had the environment to flourish in performance until now! Also listen to what she is telling you. She may be hamstrung from performing due to something you aren’t aware of. It could also be that she doesn’t want to be a performer right now, in which case you set up different goals for her to meet — one that reflects purely on her role as the institutional knowledge/mentor/etc. that she serves for your team, assuming it does benefit your team and you continue to need that role.
anon
I’d give her a raise that goes half-way toward closing the gap now, and then do everything nutella says and then close the gap if she meets performance goals. It sounds like it would be difficult to justify closing the gap completely to others in your company, but that she doesn’t deserve to make 12% less than her peers.
anon
totally agree with this.. you see her value and appreciate her ability to roll with change and keep a great attitude..help her work towards parity. That is the right thing to do.
Celia
What I still consider important: Gentlemen taking their hat off at the table. Shaking hands, not hugging, with newly-met people. Handwritten thank-you notes for gifts.
Kate
NO HUGS. YES. Sorry to shout but this is one of my pet peeves. I don’t know you, this is a professional event, don’t hug me.
anon
Thank you. I worked in a hugging culture and when I joined new company, new policy is no hugging, this is a professional environment.
Ellen
And also NOT having men put their arm around us, with their hand dropping down to our tuchuses for a rub. When did this become standard for men to get away patting our tuchuses when purporting to be reaching for our wasteline? I do not understand who gave men licenses to do this? Not me. I say just look, but don’t touch — unless you are my boyfreind and you get permission from me to do any of that stuff. That is the way I have ALWAYS been.
Anon
Thank you notes for interviews. I expect them via email within a few days. Not a week later, not on your personal stationary two weeks later, etc.
Anon
I think this one is tricky since what people were taught is correct varies so, so much by their background and social class. I know I learned the right expectations for college grads only after getting feedback.
anon
This. I had a big argument with a coworker about this, basically saying that you’re just penalizing people who don’t know that this is a thing and can really hurt diversity efforts. Unless you’re hiring for fundraising, writing thank you notes isn’t relevant to the job so it shouldn’t be considered.
Besides, I never understood the thank you note thing either. Like why am I thanking you for your time? I also took time to meet with you? An interview is a two-way street.
Mineallmine
+1000 anon 3.53. I wish this weird thank you note idea would quietly retire off to wherever strangely specific Victorian cutlery went. I say thank you in the moment, but the delayed thank you is awkward and useless.
Anonymous
Thank you notes can only hurt you. Top notch candidates do not need a thank you note to distinguish themselves. Mailing a thank you note often arrives after the decision is made. Emailing a thank you note just means we’ll (1) compare to see if you cut and pasted the email to everyone and (2) pick apart any little error you may make. To be safe, I’d say don’t do them at all. No hiring manager has ever refused to hire someone for failure to provide one.
anon
Agreed. The ONLY time I think they can be useful is if you’re using the thank you note as more of a follow up. “Thanks for taking the time to meet with me. I really enjoyed our conversation about [x] and though you might find the attached article on this topic interesting because [insert actual substantive thoughts that make you stand out.”
Anonymous
I’m super old fashioned on this one. I not only send thank you notes, but I select attract yet still professional stationery or thank you cards, usually mailed out the same day as the interview. Not only does it show respect for the interviewer’s time and consideration, it allows me another opportunity to present my aesthetic skills, which is important even for the most straight-laced job in corporate fashion merchandising. Plus, it’s just a nice thing to do. In certain of my social circles, we even still send out Christmas and birthday cards (yes, I’m the younger part of Generation X, where we’re rebellious and overly old-fashioned at the same time).
Anon
Career-wise: “Old school” about taking handwritten notes, shaking hands v hugging, not texting clients or opposing counsel, but instead using email for communication (got recent pushback from OC about how “everyone who knows him, knows to text him” so why did I email? Why did I email you a brief? Really?).
Anonymous
I hate (like really hate) texting for work. A message to say you’re running late for a depo or court, fine. Actual work related anything? Email, mail, or a call.
Mineallmine
Email for anything substantive, definitely. I’m able to organize, search and archive emails. Texts should only be for a time sensitive heads up.
Anon
I HATE this. Especially when it is something non-urgent (that should really be addressed in an email) and after hours. A girl in a non-profit I work with sends email-length text messages (so like multiple texts requiring multi-part answers) at like 10:30 pm. It is so intrusive.
anon
YES. Unless it’s truly an emergency, do not text me about work, ever!
Anon
I would have texted him the brief after that.
anon
That would have been amazing.
Anonymous
I have no idea when anyone found it acceptable to text anyone within a professional capacity. Even an “I’m running late” was also sent via email. With everyone owning smartphones, there’s no excuse for using text messages. The only text messages I should ever be receiving are strictly from family and friends; coworkers, in additional to my work email, even have a dedicated email address I specifically use only for professional and job search activities. If I can take the time to set up separate emails for work and personal life, then people should respect that and stay off my text messages. Obviously, if it’s a company phone, that may be different, but my email is for communication, as well as my information repository for important information.
Anonymous
I’m trying to imagine any woman near my age saying “How do you do” to me upon meeting . . .
Anonymous
I can only think of the Ascot scene in My Fair Lady.
Anon in Palo Alto
I think that sweats/athletic wear are not suitable for meeting with people.
Sweats if you’re hunkered down in your office all day, though someone might pop in for an important meeting? Fine.
Athletic wear if you’re going on a hike/walking meeting? Ok.
A cute blazer made of sweatshirt material? Fine.
A fleece with jeans? I guess so.
But don’t wear sweatpants and a hoodie to a meeting or conference.
I live in Silicon Valley and am apparently hopelessly old-fashioned.
Anonymous
I am also in the Valley. My peeves are faux blue collar work wear (jeans, T shirts, hoodies), and faux camo. You drive a laptop, and possibly the strategic direction of an international business, not a truck.
Anonymous
how is jeans and a t-shirt faux blue collar. its just casual wear.
bellatrix
Apparently I am old-fashioned about the idea of staying at a job for at LEAST a year before you jump ship, unless it’s an absolute horror show (the revolving door at my not-a-horror-show office says otherwise). Also, one-page resumes. I know some fields or some work histories justify more than a page, but the vast majority of people won’t need extra space. When I see a 20-something with 2+ pages, I think either that person has an inflated idea of their own importance or doesn’t know how to edit.
anon
I agree with the one-year rule. You’d better have a REALLY good reason to jump ship before that.
V
I agree with the one-year rule. You’d better have a REALLY good reason to jump ship before that.
Anonymous
I was recently at a client dinner and when it was my turn order, I did what I have always done: “May I please have…” And a co-worker burst out laughing and said it “just sounded odd.” I am ok with old fashioned, but does it sound weird??
Anonymous
Not at all. I’ve recently noticed that “odd” in Instagram-land usually means someone has good manners.
Anon
I wish attorneys would learn to be respectful in the courtroom. I don’t think it’s old fashioned, but it seems that the younger attorneys could use some retraining. You are an officer of the court–act like one!!! Dress as though you are going to court. Don’t enter the well without permission from the judge. No speaking objections or long diatribes about your interpretation of the evidence in the middle of an evidentiary hearing. Don’t interrupt the judge. And for goodness sake, don’t bicker with opposing counsel in the middle of simple inquiry from the court.