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Our daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices.
Headed back to the office in January after almost two years of WFH? Now would be a great time to go through your closet and reevaluate your old standbys to see what still fits and what’s looking a little worse for wear.
Personally, I’m making sure that I have the basics covered, and for me, a well-fitting black blazer is a necessity. This wool flannel version from J.Crew is a classic — not too long, not too short, not too fitted, and not too boxy.
It also comes in a wide range of sizes, so it’s prepared to accommodate whatever fluctuations you’ve experienced in the last two years. (One acquaintance got really into weightlifting during the pandemic and is now sizing up to accommodate her “gains.” Amazing!)
The blazer is on sale for $159 (originally $228) at J.Crew and comes in classic sizes 00–24, petite sizes 00–12, and tall sizes 2–16. It also comes in navy and camel.
This post contains affiliate links and Corporette® may earn commissions for purchases made through links in this post. For more details see here. Thank you so much for your support!
Sales of note for 9.30.24
- Nordstrom – Beauty deals through September
- Ann Taylor – Extra 30% off sale
- Banana Republic Factory – 50% off everything + extra 20% off
- Boden – 15% off new styles
- Eloquii – Extra 50% off sale
- J.Crew – 50% off select styles
- J.Crew Factory – Up to 60% off everything + 50% off sale with code
- Lo & Sons – Warehouse sale, up to 70% off
- M.M.LaFleur – Save 25% sitewide
- Neiman Marcus – Friends & Family 25% off
- Rag & Bone – Friends & Family 25% off sitewide
- Spanx – Lots of workwear on sale, some up to 70% off
- Talbots – Fall Cyber Monday sale, 40% off sitewide and $5 shipping
- Target – Car-seat trade-in event through 9/28 — bring in an old car seat to get a 20% discount on other baby/toddler stuff.
- White House Black Market – 40% off select styles
Sales of note for 9.30.24
- Nordstrom – Beauty deals through September
- Ann Taylor – Extra 30% off sale
- Banana Republic Factory – 50% off everything + extra 20% off
- Boden – 15% off new styles
- Eloquii – Extra 50% off sale
- J.Crew – 50% off select styles
- J.Crew Factory – Up to 60% off everything + 50% off sale with code
- Lo & Sons – Warehouse sale, up to 70% off
- M.M.LaFleur – Save 25% sitewide
- Neiman Marcus – Friends & Family 25% off
- Rag & Bone – Friends & Family 25% off sitewide
- Spanx – Lots of workwear on sale, some up to 70% off
- Talbots – Fall Cyber Monday sale, 40% off sitewide and $5 shipping
- Target – Car-seat trade-in event through 9/28 — bring in an old car seat to get a 20% discount on other baby/toddler stuff.
- White House Black Market – 40% off select styles
And some of our latest threadjacks here at Corporette (reader questions and commentary) — see more here!
Some of our latest threadjacks include:
- What to say to friends and family who threaten to not vote?
- What boots do you expect to wear this fall and winter?
- What beauty treatments do you do on a regular basis to look polished?
- Can I skip the annual family event my workplace holds, even if I'm a manager?
- What small steps can I take today to get myself a little more “together” and not feel so frazzled all of the time?
- The oldest daughter is America's social safety net — change my mind…
- What have you lost your taste for as you've aged?
- Tell me about your favorite adventure travels…
Anon
Seeking opinions on Miami Beach vs. Fort Lauderdale Beach for a January vacation. I mostly want to relax by the beach or pool, go on walks, and maybe rent a kayak for a few hours. I’ll be traveling alone and do not want to rent a car.
I was originally thinking Miami, but am now wondering if Fort Lauderdale might be more laid back for someone who is not interested in nightlife. It also seems like the hotels might be a better value in Fort Lauderdale. (That said, if anyone has recommendations for a hotel in either location at $300 or less per night, I am all ears!)
Anonymous
If you want chill, skip South Beach. There are some lovely parts of Miami, but Fort Lauderdale or Palm Beach sound more your speed for this trip. You also might consider the Florida Keys, though they’d like require renting a car unless you’re staying in Key West.
Ellen
What about West Palm Beach? It’s about 1 hour north of Miami, and there is plenty to see and do there. There’s also a great mall near Singer Island where I spend alot of money when I last was there. Miami is a zoo, and alot of slimy men who get away pinching pretty women b/c they can do it and no one (other than us) care.
Anon
Fort Lauderdale would be cheaper, but a plus of Miami Beach is that it’s super walkable. You could take an Uber there from airport and then just walk to everything you need. I loved there (on South Beach) for a few years and went to a club maybe three times? There is plenty to do if that’s not your scene. If you want to post an email address, happy to send you a list I made recently for someone traveling there.
OP
Thanks for the offer! I’m replying late, but if you happen to see this here is a throwaway email: miami88412@ gmail.com.
Anon
My clubbing days are long gone and I love just walking in Miami. It is so amazing to me.
Anon
The beaches on the northern part of Miami Beach (72nd beach) are more quiet and not touristy. If you want to rent a chair, you’ll have to go to a beach further south, like mid beach. Ubers and lyfts are readily accessible in Miami so no need to worry about transportation. You can definitely escape the Miami Beach party scene as long as you are not staying too far south.
Cat
You’ll probably get a better value in Ft Lauderdale and also FLL is so much easier to deal with than MIA! Depending on your Covid comfort you may really, really prefer, however, getting an Airbnb in a condo building with a pool and that offers its own beach chairs so you can sit wherever. We were in both locations at the end of May and the beaches were insanely crowded in front of the hotels – dense chair & umbrella packs.
Anon
I’ve never been to FLL — is it visually similar to Miami (deco buildings and the like)? Just wondering for myself. I’ve been to Miami / Ocala / St. Augustine / Tampa / Marco Island and love them all but to me, Miami is just beyond amazing for soaking in the atmosphere and feeling like you are in the crossroads of the world.
Cat
no, it’s pretty cookie cutter, but if you just want a chill place to relax for a few days, it’s a fine place to plant yourself.
Anon
FLL is much more like Tampa than Miami, except in terms of weather. I would definitely recommend Miami if you’re interested in art/food/culture/architecture etc.
Shelle
My understanding is Miami Beach is marketed to adults without kids and Ft Lauderdale is marketed to families. My friend with kids raves about Ft Lauderdale. I’ve stayed in South Beach (which is part of Miami Beach) which has a lively nightlife and I’ve stayed farther north in the Miami Beach area where the beaches are still great and it’s much quieter. It sounds like the actual sand and water are similarly great.
Anon
That isn’t really true. Miami has some great family friendly hotels like 1 Hotel South Beach and plenty for kids of all ages to do. I personally think FLL is boring suburbia with mediocre food, and Miami is where it’s at even though I don’t go to bars or clubs (even pre pandemic).
Anon
I’m in Miami Beach right now on vacation with my mother. We’re in the 60s (not sure if that’s mid beach or north beach) and it’s plenty quiet. The hotel plays music at the pool, which I don’t love but other wise it’s very quiet. The clientele is a mix of young families and adults here for a relaxing beach vacation. Definitely not a clubby atmosphere (even the hotel bar closes at 9!)
OP
Thanks! Any chance you’d be willing to share the name of the hotel you’re staying at?
Anon
How about Delray Beach? Even quieter. Fort Lauderdale is still going to have the noisy bar scene right along the beach.
Anon
Delray Beach is awful. My grandmother used to live there and I thought it was the most boring place on earth. There’s a giant retirement village and some ok beaches and literally nothing else. I’m not a club-goer at all but Miami is so much more vibrant and interesting.
Anon
Read again what OP is looking for.
Delray is quiet but it’s not completely boring. It has a downtown area with some good restaurants. I travel to Boca for business and always stay in Delray because it’s prettier and the restaurants are nicer.
Anon
Lago Mar resort in Ft. Lauderdale sounds like a good choice for you. Lots of activities and low key with a huge beachfront and lazy river.
Anonymous
What are the fleece-lined leggings on Amazon that people like?
Anon
I’ve been recommended the Baleaf ones, but be warned if you already wear that brand that the fleece-lined leggings are sized inconsistently. I wear their regular yoga pants in a small, but the fleece-lined leggings in that size were so tiny I couldn’t get them past my knees.
Anon
So did you go with a M or L? I think I should get an XL (normally a S/M cusp in Athleta items) probably; XS daughter should go with a M maybe?
Anon
I’ve re-ordered a large, but they haven’t come yet.
Walnut
I don’t usually size up on my orders, but I would say one size jump is reasonable for an easier “getting pants on” experience. I don’t think I’d do two.
anon
I love these so much. They’re so cozy. Finding the right size can be a tad tricky. I think I’m in between a L-XL. Might want to order a reg size and a size up at first.
Anonymous
Another one who had to return them because of issues with sizing. I went up one size and it still didn’t work. I ended up getting fleece lined straight leg pants from L.L. Bean instead and I love them.
AZCPA
From Athleta, the fleece lined leggings I love are the Rainier – and they are true to size on me.
Anonymous
Zerdocean for plus sizes, but they also run small, so they probably would fit for size 12+.
Sloan Sabbith
I got the “BALEAF Women’s Fleece Lined Water Resistant Legging High Waisted Thermal Winter Hiking Running Pants Pockets” in two colors I like them so much.
I went up a size.
I also tried the “BALEAF Women’s Fleece Lined Leggings Water Resistant Winter Hiking Pants Cold Weather Thermal Running Tights High Waisted” and they were not great. The waist was too big, the legs were too small, all a mess.
Anonymous
Any good job switch stories to share? I am increasingly frustrated with my law firm administration. 10% of the firm partners have left for other firms or jobs this quarter alone. I was invited to join one firm but I was trying to stick it out (my main work comes from a partner who is retiring any year now…). I know the grass isn’t always greener but I’m starting to reevaluate whether gritting my teeth is worth it another indefinite number of years.
Anon
I have seen so many horror stories of depending on someone retiring for your future success – they actually stick around forever or their book deteriorates etc. I personally wouldn’t gamble on that if you’re otherwise ready to move on and have a good opportunity.
Anon
I’m in tech, not law, but I got fed up with my company’s dinosaur policies (which the past two years brought into start relief) and left in the fall for a 60% raise. That probably doesn’t help much since I assume your issue is inheriting the retiree’s book, but I’m seeing people jumping ship for major improvements (pay, PTO, benefits, advancement opportunities) across multiple fields.
Anon
I’m in public health and joined my offices exodus (nearly 1/3 of my office quit in 2021!). I start my new position in January and hope that it is better!!
Anonymous
I would not try to start over at another firm. If all you are doing is gritting your teeth you got lucky in picking your firm, and there are a lot of places that are more toxic. I actually worked with a counselor who helped me figure out how to deal with the stuff I can’t change, and that helped with my stress levels and let me enjoy practice again.
Taylor
I think I’m at a different stage in my career from you, and I’m not a lawyer.
First, I was working a public sector job that I loved but had crazy hours. I completely loved it but essentially my contract ended.
I went to work for a private sector consulting firm. The work is along the same lines, how much of a difference should it make – nopes turned out I absolutely hated it.
Moved to a consulting firm that does some work similar to what I was doing in the public sector and I love it. It makes a difference that at least part of our work is the type I care about, I get along a lot better with my colleagues, I’m more focused at work, its a larger company which is good, I got a pay raise. So its definitely been greener from my point of view.
Anonymous
Please don’t wait it out for the retiree’s book. I used to draft retirement agreements for partners at my old firm, and they all wanted 3-4 year transition periods where they worked less and less (but still got origination credit). Then, at the 3 yr mark, they either wouldn’t want to leave or their contacts at the company would retire and the “book” would dry up. You need to make decisions assuming you’ll inherit nothing.
pugsnbourbon
Next year, will you wish you’d started job hunting this year?
Abby
I’m in finance and feel like I’ve shared my job change job a few times, but it’s a good one. I was also at a frustrating job (terrible work politics, sexist, overall very bad fit for me) with the “promise” that several partners were retiring soon, and it would eventually be a very lucrative career. I wasn’t looking, but was offered a job elsewhere, and it didn’t end up to be a fit but it got me dreaming of leaving so I started searching. I was so miserable by the end of my time there, I literally had a sticky note counting down the hours I had left to stick it out.
New job: my salary is 2.5x my previous salary, my team is amazing, I’ve never had a manager as great as the one I have now. I’ve been given opportunities and experiences that I know my colleagues I left at my old firm still don’t have.
I was at old job for 1.5 years, and current job I started in March 2020. When my friends saw me in person after the pandemic they could tell how much happier I was.
anon
A series of unfortunate events – I recently gave myself a concussion and just as the major headaches were subsiding, my cousin texted me to let me know half her family had covid (we had recently seen them). Off to get my family tested, naturally one of the kids was positive (very mild symptoms), fast forward to the day before her quarantine period ended and my younger daughter got pretty sick (tested negative a few times), then my husband’s credit card number was compromised, thankfully the only inconvenience will be having to reset all the autopays once the new card arrives. But the MOST annoying but extremely minor problem is that I have a tiny piece of floss caught in my permanent retainer that I cannot get out.
Yesterday was a complete disaster as my kids have completely forgotten how to function at home while we’re trying to work (we’re on day 12 of quarantine with 7 more to go based on our local health department guidelines as my kids only had one shot before all this started). In all honesty, none of these problems are serious, but it’s just one thing after another. All this to say, it’s only Tuesday morning, but I CANNOT wait until Friday! For those taking next week off, stay strong we’re almost there!
Anon
that’s a lot. Friday will be here very soon! Hugs that everyone stays healthy and there are no more covid exposures or concussions
Anon
One of my kids got her period and is struggling to manage the hygiene aspects of it. Part of it is that middle schoolers avoid the bathrooms at all costs (post-school closures, there is a fear of getting beaten up in them given the rising levels of nonsense in schools, so I can’t say it is unfounded). Over the weekend (no school, kid has her own bathroom), she had overflow incidents . . . everywhere. All over the house. I’m glad our couches are leather, but the wreckage included a king size comforter that I had to clean in pieces in the sink and then eventually bring to a laundromat b/c it is too big to fit in our washer. #livingthedream I maybe did 10+ loads of laundry (but did get all stains out; had her help with this so she understands that this is a live skill, as is CHANGING THE D*MN PAD). I should have been spreadsheeting deals. Oh well.
Ribena
Poor kid – learning to deal with that was no fun. One thing that’s massively improved since I got my first period is the new tech out there – both period underwear and also brands like Adidas making leak proof activewear. Might be worth looking into as another line of defence?
Anon
How is the smell? That’s a pretty noticeable smell and am not not sure how underwear vs a pad changes the scent issue if you are using it for 8+ hours at a time in something like a school setting. I am really feeling bad for middle school teachers and school nurses dealing with things like this on top of COVID and mental health issues with kids these days.
Anon
She might want to try the period underwear under a pad. I bought some from Knix for myself (perimenopausal) and they are great – very comfy too! Definitely worth the money for the peace of mind.
No Face
I had the same thought. I use period panties now, and I have thought “Man, I wish I had these when I was a teenager” several times. I can wear the Thinx boyshorts (under clothes) or the sleep shorts (as my shorts) for like 12 hours on my heaviest day with no leaks.
Anonymous
This will not be a popular comment here based on previous discussions, but has she considered tampons? For teenaged me, they were life-changing. Pads are just so messy, leaky, smelly, and uncomfortable. She can add a pad, a liner, or period undies as backup. I would offer her both applicator and applicator-free varieties to try so she can figure out what works best for her.
lifer
I completely agree with this.
And once she is more comfortable with using tampons, she may graduate to a cup.
Honestly, hearing her situation, I would try all three for awhile – period underwear, pads, tampons. Once she learns, she can simplify.
Nora
I’m surprised thats controversial, I thought we were generally over the idea that tampons are inappropriate for teens or something. I’ve literally always used tampons and it made it so much better for me. Putting it in wasn’t a big deal (start with the smallest size, I like applicator-free), and I did remember to change it regularly (set a timer if needed), but I didn’t feel anything all day
Cat
same, I didn’t use tampons until high school bc I was squeamish about using them… not because of any controversy!
Anonymous
There was a post last summer about a poster’s teen daughter swimming and many people were horrified at the suggestion that the teen could try tampons instead of sitting out.
Cat
if her first period is that heavy that she’s bleeding everywhere you might take her to the gyn… or have her start using tampon + pad!
AnonMom
My teen was thrilled to get and use a menstrual cup. The laundry stains are minimal now. Without decades of pads-only experience to unlearn, she figured out the cup much faster than I did when I switched over, too.
Anon
Sorry for what you went through with the laundry and stain removal. But I was shocked at a different part of your post: Middle schoolers dont go to the bathroom all day in school? Because of fear of being beaten up? Wow. Have you spoken to the school about this? Even absent period issues, it can’t be healthy to hold it in all day.
Anon
My kids somehow made it though middle school and high school without ever using the public restrooms, which they just thought were gross. I could not believe how long they could hold it.
Anon
Yeah, that’s a serious health issue. I cannot believe they are putting up with this nonsense. What is the school board doing about it?
Cat
I knew several people in my “safe” suburban high school who held it all day just because they thought public bathrooms were gross. No fear of attacks at all… unluckily for me there is no way a single pad or tampon would have lasted!!!
Senior Attorney
Good grief this was me 50 years ago! Sad to hear it’s still happening!
Anon
I can’t imagine having to avoid a bathroom all day!
Modi Bodi make great period underwear for young girls and women – so many sizes. We’ve not had to deal with leaks since starting using them. There’s heaps of other brands too. Good luck!
Anon
My husband is tired of how critical I am. I’m tired of him screwing everything up.
He was driving home early this morning from staying over at his brother’s house to help with some renovations, so he asked if I had a grocery list and if he could pick up coffee for me. Sweet, right?
Literally everything was tweaked so it’s only close to the genre of what I asked for. I asked for a container of spring mix, he buys a head of iceberg lettuce. I ask for almond milk (the same kind I’ve been using for years), he buys oat milk. I ask for a large Peppermint Mocha at Starbucks (using those three words, nothing custom!), he brings me a Pike Place coffee with peppermint syrup (per the sticker on the side). Yet he claims all these items are exactly what I asked for.
This kind of thing is constant with him, and I’m fed the h3ll up. Is it typical male weaponized incompetence if he’s the one offering to do the stuff? I’m not being a diva, with nitpick customizations on everything I ask for, this is simple sh*t. I swear he goes out of his way to play this mindgame, just to make me look overly nitpicky and mean.
Anonymous
Honey just get the divorce. This is no way to live.
Anon
+1, the contempt is dripping off the page.
Go for it
+1
Anonymous
This. It’s oved. Do yourself and him the favor of calling it.
Anon
Dang y’all give up quick.
Anon
Tick the “no substitutions” box and leave a one-star review (is this not a thing in your family?).
I would file under the “you can be happy or you can be right” heading. Dude has strengths and these aren’t it. Send to competent help or do yourself. I do the family taxes. I do not do anything technological and refuse to learn (at home, re kids’ gadgets, and I refer all that to DH and refuse to handle a bit of it).
Anon
Or just start doing things slightly wrong for his stuff. If you do his laundry, lay it all out to dry instead of put in the dryer. If you cook dinner, include an ingredient he doesn’t like in each dish. If you buy groceries, buy the wrong brand of his favorites. If he’s obsessive about the thermostat, constantly change it.
Super petty of course, but do it for a day or two. If he doesn’t complain, you got it out of your system and can work to move on like the mature Anon at 9:12. If he does complain, you can calmly explain that’s why you get frustrated when he does the same thing to you, and ask what he can do to help prevent you feeling like that in the future.
Anon
The answer does not ever seem to be being petty and mean spirited.
No Face
Terrible idea, unless the longterm plan is to hate each other and get divorced.
Anon
Escalating hostilities is not the way you probably want to be going.
Anonymous
And it sounds completely exhausting
Go for it
+1
Anon
Good grief. No. He’s her husband not an enemy. OP, if you care more about being right, keep it up and snipe and post back asking for a divorce lawyer in your area. Otherwise just use instacart and select your own substitutes, they have an app for that.
Anon
I mean, if you’re going to go this route just go straight to divorce without passing Go or collecting $200.
Anon
I get that the answer isn’t to be petty, but read this thread with the genders reversed. In a hetero marriage, if a woman were to be unable to distinguish between a spring mix and a head of lettuce, you really think her husband would bend over as backward as everyone on this thread to give her the benefit of the doubt? Text her screenshots of the exact item because she can’t read the exact words on the list? Come on. This isn’t a reasonable one time mistake, this is a repeated scenario of literally batting 0 on getting anything right.
We ask women to accept SUCH incompetence from supposedly competent men, because “gee he helps in other ways.” At some point, you’ve got to be able to expect basic-level help from your partner on things, even if it’s not his primary job.
Anon
Um, my husband absolutely texts me pictures and clarifications when I’m at the store and I still mess things up. He doesn’t work for me and I don’t work for him, we’re a team. We respect each other and we divide labor based on who’s good at what.
Anon
Well said.
Anon
Okay, sure, but nothing about that means that being petty is a healthy way to function in a relationship. Those two concepts are entirely separate.
No Face
If a woman made a mistake at the grocery store, and her husband passively aggressively sabotaged things in response, I would worry she was in abusive relationship.
Anon
Solidarity. I sometimes wonder if my SO is trolling me or if it’s possible to be this incompetent. I will text him “please buy X. Do not buy Y” in an attempt to make it extra clear, and he comes home with Y. I’ve started sending screenshots of what I need but that doesn’t help. I’m now at the stage where I just do things myself if they’re going to be done right and I’m exhausted. (And I swear I’m not being diva like. Like you, it’s simple sh1t. I just wish we could divide the labor more so I didn’t have to redo everything he screws up.)
Anon
I’ve sent my husband right back to the store in this situation. Like when he knew dinner was stuffed peppers and came home with one green pepper. He swore he didn’t know what we were eating, I pointed out that in addition to saying it out loud, it was right under the grocery list. I offered to post the weekly menu plan and grocery list to all his favorite subreddits, because he sure as f*** doesn’t miss a single thread there.
Anon
I feel both of these comments in my bones.
anne-on
These are absolutely things I’d bring up in therapy. For me, it’s not so much that he got stuff wrong but that he’s doubling down on his mistake, turning it back, and making YOU feel bad when you point it out.
Fwiw, my family of origin has narcissists in it and this is a big thing – they are NEVER wrong, if they are wrong it’s not a big deal, if it is a big deal it’s your fault for not being clear enough, and then if they’re still wrong it’s still your fault for making them feel bad/look bad (there is never, ever any ownership unless it’s with someone in a position of power above them and then they turn the rage of being wrong back on someone else).
Not armchair diagnosing HIM, but something to keep in mind – if this is his family he may well have been trained not to admit that he’s wrong to avoid that rage (or he may show narc tendencies, but that’s up to you to determine).
Anon
First, I definitely understand your frustration. I don’t doubt that some people deliberately screw up things like that to get out of having to do them, but when he’s offering to do it, that seems less likely and he might just genuinely have trouble with these kind of details or not understand the differences (is he like this in all aspects of his life?) . I think you need to put this in the perspective of your entire marriage and recognize that some people really are better or worse at certain things, the important question is whether he’s overall making a fair contribution and making your life better or worse overall.
I have a disability that affects my ability to drive, which means my husband sometimes has to drive me places and do all of the in person shopping and errand running (or we go together). But I do online shopping for many household goods to reduce the burden on him. He does most of the outside work and anything related to the car. I take care of finances and most of the cooking and cleaning, but he does anything that requires bleach (I have asthma) or requires reaching up high, cleans up any messes he makes, and looks for missing items (I’m terrible at finding things sitting in front of my face). We could chose to get upset that we get stuck with certain tasks the other has trouble with or just recognize that we both contribute a lot and we’re much better off together than apart.
Anonymous
+ 1 to this. You are a team. You are not the boss of him. Review together what he does well and what you do well, and split tasks fairly in a way that draws from each of your strengths. The way to handle Starbucks if you cannot surface a generous enough spirit to put your own milk in your coffee is for you to use the app to pick what you want and he can pick it up. I also found my husband originally unable to buy vegetables, but it wasn’t because he was an idiot, it’s because he never saw real food being prepared when he was a kid. I started sending him pictures of what he was looking for and he sorted it all out, and actually ended up learning and enjoying some of the food prep.
Anonymous
This assumes that the man wants to do his best. If OP is sending exact instructions and he’s still not following them, then it’s reasonable to assume that the man does not want to do his best and just wants to do the bare minimum and argue about why that should be acceptable. If this was my friend I’d ask why they are staying in a relationship with a man who would rather argue about why this is acceptable rather than being with a guy who actually wants to make them happy.
No Face
Take a birds-eye view of your marriage. How do you communicate generally? How is the division of labor overall?
My husband and I have few crossover tasks. We are the king and queen of our separate domestic duties, so we are each an expert at some domestic tasks and shockingly incompetent in others. I do the grocery shopping, so my husband would not be able to identify my oatmilk of choice. I outsource to a grocery delivery service, not him. He cleans the dishes and kitchen, so I basically can’t load a dishwasher anymore. He does not outsource to me anymore, because at this point the haphazard dish-loading actually bothers him to see! But I am really trying, I swear!
BUT we communicate well, and the tasks are adequately split up. If you are doing too much, then of course you are frustrated because you are probably thinking, YOU COULDN’T EVEN DO THIS RIGHT! But assuming a good marriage, I think the solution is offloading entire tasks to him without monitoring his progress or judging how he does things.
Anon
+1, especially to your last sentence.
ArenKay
Agree entirely.
Anon
OP here: there are good points.
My instinct isn’t to say it’s a LACK of communication, though, because when this sort of thing happens, it feels like the stereotype of a student putting ten pounds of effort into avoiding five pounds of homework. Like, he doesn’t drink coffee himself, so he’s only ever gone to Starbucks a handful of times to get something for me. So he had to figure out what the ingredients were in the drink I asked for, and then find an alternate way to order something very close. Meanwhile, getting the correct item required a three-word phrase.
Am I that cranked up about a single cup of incorrect coffee, absolutely not. It’s that when he DOES do something like this, it’s that he does it in a Rube Goldberg fashion. Putting extra effort into getting something only slightly wrong feels very different to me than does just randomly making a mistake.
Anon
This is an identifiable and understandable problem. He feels like he is messing up, so he tries harder. However, the “harder” is so completely misdirected that it makes things worse, and then you’re still critical and upset and he can’t figure out how to try even harder.
With my husband, I can sometimes get him out of this by thanking him for trying and then giving an in-depth explanation of drip coffee versus a latte. I would tell him that yes, I put Torani into my cold brew, espresso, and drip coffee at home, but at Starbucks, the drink I was asking for is an espresso with milk, chocolate sauce, and peppermint. “Peppermint mocha” = peppermint syrup with chocolate in a latte, and latte = espresso and steamed milk. Later, if he’s confused, it gives him a basis to ask questions.
Alternately, you can order it through the mobile app for him to pick up. You get coffee delivered and he gets to do something nice for you. It breaks the cycle of frustration.
Anon
This is helpful, thank you!
Anonymous
This is my husband–wants to be helpful but hates shopping and panics in the store. Ordering for him to pick up is the solution.
Vicky Austin
Also perhaps – this is something my husband would do – you sent him a text with the list and he looked at it once, assumed he had it memorized and then just absolutely did not? e.g., “Uh, just some coffee…with…uh…peppermint?”
Anon
@Vicky Austin, to me that would not be an acceptable excuse. If you’re going to do the job, then do it write and look at your list again.
Anonymous
This makes sense. Looking back it’s how I also got my own husband to be a better shopper. “This is iceberg. It lasts forever in the fridge and it’s great on a BLT but I need field greens for this salad. They have a more tender texture and more interesting flavor, so they go in my salad.” Or “the aged Gouda has the crystals, so it’s good for snacking but doesn’t melt, I need the melt-y kind for my sandwiches.”
Vicky Austin
Oh I wasn’t saying it was acceptable. If it were the case, I would 100% say, “I texted you for a reason. Please consult the list in the store so you get what I am asking for, or don’t offer.” (possibly in nicer words.) It’s just hard to conceptualize this *not* being a petty F You without something like that to explain it.
test run
So many thoughts about this – will try to avoid writing a novel. First of all, I totally get you on the overly complicated the error thing. My husband will sometimes do this thing where he’s trying to be helpful, but in order to either avoid asking me for clarification (which I think he think delegitimizes him helping) he ties himself up in knots overcomplicating the situation and ending up doing something totally insane that we then have to fix. I finally told him, “asking for clarification is not putting emotional labor on me, but making me fix your screw up is” (I said this in a slightly nicer way) and that seemed to resonate.
Having said that – and this has come up here before – the above applies to pretty random, occasional issues (getting my car fixed, trying to book some travel thing), not daily tasks like going to the grocery store. I’m not trying to be overly harsh here, but if my spouse couldn’t buy lettuce I would think he’s a moron and that would be a MUCH bigger issue than something like the starbucks order itself because then I would start to lose respect for that person and the whole thing would spiral. Is that where you’re heading?
Anon
OP here. This is a good take: “I’m not trying to be overly harsh here, but if my spouse couldn’t buy lettuce I would think he’s a moron and that would be a MUCH bigger issue than something like the starbucks order itself because then I would start to lose respect for that person and the whole thing would spiral. Is that where you’re heading?”
He has a post-grad science degree and does complicated labwork. He’s capable of doing things like getting literally any stain out of the laundry, because he understands the biochemistry behind the process. So my exasperation behind him screwing up simple errands has the baggage of “you’re an idi0t savant” behind it.
Anon
OP, he’s clearly smart so I think it’s more that he just doesn’t care to put in the effort to learn how to distinguish a head of lettuce from spring mix.
Anon
I love my husband and we have worked this all out but the dishwasher thing drives me crazy. He will bitch endlessly that no one ever puts their dishes in the dishwasher, but when we do put them in, he unloads and reloads them because there is One and Only One way to put dishes into the dishwasher.
pugsnbourbon
My dad would pick at my mom over the dishwasher until they had a come-to-jesus moment over it. My mom hasn’t loaded a dishwasher in probably a decade now. If your husband’s way is the only right way, then he’s gotta do it 100% of the time or quit bellyaching.
Monday
OP writes “I swear he goes out of his way to play this mindgame.” If there’s a reason you really believe that, then that’s the problem. You believe he has bad intentions/is doing this on purpose (and I assume have good reason for believing that).
Anonymous
+1 Really really look at this sentence of yours. Was it part of your rant and you don’t actually think it but were merely over-stating, or do you honestly think that he’s screwing you over every chance he gets? The first thing is just what we do when we’re frustrated. The second is a big deal.
My outsider’s take is that you’re expecting exact details from someone who doesn’t DO exact details and isn’t convinced they matter. If my take is what’s going on, then it’s highly possible that he didn’t “hear” you say “large peppermint mocha,” as an exact phrase that he needed to repeat with zero variations. Instead, he heard the IDEA that, “she wants coffee with peppermint stuff” and that’s what he got you.
Though, gotta say, if this guy was out late/early because he was helping his brother renovate his place, and then called you to see about groceries and to bring you coffee . . . sounds like you have a good guy there.
Anon
If you believe this is negatively intentional (and not benignly intentional), I don’t think this relationship can be salvaged.
Anon
Kind of agree on this. No one goes grocery shopping AT someone until now.
Senior Attorney
Agree. I used to be married to somebody like this and I’m here to tell you that if your partner really isn’t operating in good faith, than the only reasonable play is DTMFA.
Anonymous
Also, if you have such disdain for him that you believe he is not operating in good faith, it really doesn’t matter what his intentions are, your relationship is done.
Anon
Agree. If your partner is intentionally sabatoging or gaslighting you or you feel that way, rather than this being some executive functioning or anxiety issue, means something is really wrong. You could try couples counseling but also listen to your gut.
Anon
Yes whether this is head games changes everything for me.
But it’s also completely plausible to me that he’s just this incompetent at these particular tasks. I’ve had to stopped being astonished at how little many people know/care about groceries in particular.
Though I did consider whether he was getting sticker shock and not understanding the difference that makes the requested item 2x more expensive, since those all sound like obvious downgrades except maybe the oatmilk?
Anon
First, agree with the poster who says therapy for both of you.
Secondly, my husband is similar, with the exception that he doesn’t double down on his errors. He admits to them! Of everything you said in your post, the doubling down is definitely the egregious part that I wouldn’t be able to live with.
For this specific thing, I’d start communicating via text and in pictures (‘buy me this almond milk – photo’) so he can find it. Maybe he forgot, or was lazy, or truly remembers incorrectly. Pictures will help. When he comes home with the wrong thing, talk to him about your feelings – your disappointment, anger, frustration. “I’m feeling disappointed because I like that brand of almond milk and I won’t be able to drink this oat milk.” “I was really looking forward to that peppermint mocha, and I’m frustrated that you brought home flavored coffee instead.” “I’m angry that I asked you to pick up specific items and you didn’t get anything I asked for – I will have to go back to the store.” Maybe you do this already – kudos if so! If he responds nicely to your feelings: “I didn’t mean to frustrate you — I really thought this is what you asked for.” it’s easier to move forward. If he doubles down “you should feel ____ because _____”, I’d full stop and see a therapist – if not together, then as an individual. It would be hard for me to be married to that type of person.
Anon
I’m really sorry, this sucks.
Is he like this in other aspects of his life, like work? Does he have ADD or another mental health condition that would be relevant to this?
In my experience this is definitely NOT a “typically male” thing — I’ve known men who might call from the store with questions even though I told them 2x what was needed, but not this.
Anon
I’ve been married for three years and called my husband from the grocery store to ask which sandwich bread he wanted. I felt like a bad wife who can’t remember her husband’s bread preferences, but it felt less bad than bringing home the wrong stuff. Definitely can understand how it might feel easier to guess and hope you are right than to admit you aren’t sure.
Anon
I got a sandwich with roasted red peppers once for a partner who hated them after he told me “I don’t care, just get something.” I still feel terrible about it.
roxie
wait why would you feel terrible that he couldn’t use his words to express his preferences?
Anne-on
My husband once picked up a dessert for a family holiday gathering with a fruit I’m allergic to on it. We were newly married at the time but even his sisters knew about the allergy. He just blanked. I laughed at him, they laughed at him, and I still tease him about it from time to time but I don’t hold it against him, stuff like this happens and only the true jerks will make you feel terrible about an innocent mistake.
Anon
@roxie
Sometimes we are all stressed and in a rush and just want someone else to grab us a sandwich and don’t really care what it is — I was trying to take a small load off his plate that day (grabbing food for an outing). That was the case here. He has repeatedly told me how much he hates roasted red peppers, and of course thought I knew that. I just forgot in the moment. He wasn’t mad. I’m just feel terrible for having forgotten — he never forgets this kind of thing. I do not need to remind him that I hate arugula every time he plans dinner or picks up takeout for us.
Seafinch
The OP’s description is 100% my husband and we had a HUGE break through earlier this month when a couples therapist gently suggested to him that he was clearly not an idiot and should consider whether he might have ADHD. Too early to tell but I think it might be life changing for us.
Anonymous
Honestly I think every middle class man in America was taught to consciously and continuously mess up ‘womens work’ so that they never have to do it again.
Anon
I don’t think you’re wrong!
Equestrian Attorney
Yeah I love my SO but he definitely tends to announce he is going to help with XYZ task and then half a** it such that I have to do it again, and so I fall into the trap of saying “never mind, I’ll do it” because it seems more efficient that way,
Anonymous
They are. My FIL boasts about how he taught his sons (it didn’t stick).
Anonymous
Big agree.
anon
I think this is true, sadly. I remember reading “The Second Shift” in my women’s studies class in college, and this theme was touched on (but also the fact that when women don’t like how their husbands do a particular task, like loading the dishwasher, they default to doing it themselves rather than accepting how their husbands do it). I’m not sure it’s a problem that will ever be solved.
Anon
Yeah, there were parts of Lean In that I didn’t love, but one thing that resonated with me was to let your partner do things wrong (the example was putting on a diaper) and don’t criticize or take over the task yourself. This doesn’t work in OP’s situation but does work for dishwashers.
Anonymous
It works for dishwashers if you don’t care whether all your dishes get broken.
Anon
Actually it holds up. Iceberg still makes a salad, oat milk and almond are pretty much the same thing, and coffee is caffeine.
Anon
Yes, but my husband thinks that .500 is as fabulous as a batting average in laundry as it is in baseball. My solution is that he does not touch my laundry and he does not touch mine. He has lots of pink clothes now, from underwear to athletic socks to “khakis” but oh well.
Anonymous
Not sure if it would help with all that, but my husband will often take pictures of the can of shaving cream or stick of deodorant or whatever so I have a reference. If he’s giving me a list, he’ll sometimes list the brand of dishwasher soap or whatever. To be honest, I get the wrong thing even for myself a lot and I hate it.
Anonymous
I’m sorry. This is frustrating. My husband is not a perfect person and he absolutely makes mistakes but he’s…reasonably competent. Does your husband have this much trouble with other aspects of life? How does a person who gets 0/10 with a grocery list navigate the rest of his life?
Tara
What would he do if was the one who was using the groceries? If he needed the particular greens for a salad, if he drank almond milk? You gave him a list so it wasn’t a question “what type of non-milk milk does she drink again?”. It was right there.
Anon
Fair question. He’s a freaking genius at science, and approaches certain types of household troubleshooting with that mindset. If the cat barfs on the rug, he will study the ingredients list of her food and the ingredients list of the cleaners we have, so he can figure out the right combination of chemicals to perfectly lift the stain.
So I think I’m getting extra POed at these scenarios because I can’t understand how someone who thinks organic chemistry is easy is simultaneously unable to buy produce.
Anon
This is OP, by the way, forgot to start with that.
Anon
I think the answer is that those are things he understands. If he’s not into cooking or food, he genuinely doesn’t see a difference between kinds of lettuce or different kinds of milk. I would never be able to remember what very specific type of oil my husband wants for the car because I just don’t care about the differences. That’s why he buys oil for the car. But if for some reason I had to, I would make the effort to learn some of it. I think he either needs to learn more about food, or just recognize that it’s a lot to remember every food preference for someone else and just do it yourself.
Anon
They’re things he understands because he wants to, so he has taken the time to learn them. He is capable of understanding lettuce, he just doesn’t want to.
Anon
I actually think this is a really common combination (I know more people who are geniuses at science who lack practical life skills than people who excel at both). Isn’t it even a stereotype?
My husband is so into physics and chemistry (and aviation and engine technology and I don’t even know what) that he reads the latest in these fields for fun. But can he remember to keep wood utensils out of the dishwasher and why? (Yes, but it took years of reminders…)
Anon
Honestly, this is only a stereotype for men. As a female scientist, I know a number of men like this, but not a single woman. I’ve been advocating for understanding peoples differences in the rest of this thread, but I do absolutely think it’s true that it’s accepted for men to be this way, but women just aren’t allowed to get away with it. At a very early age, we’re forced to care about cooking, taking care of other people’s preferences, and personal care in a way men just aren’t. I personally love to cook and my husband is a perfectly capable cook and shopper as well, but I pay much more attention to things like nutrition, cost, and making sure we use all the leftovers and don’t waste things, which he’s sort of oblivious to
Anon
I agree that men are allowed to get away with this and women aren’t. But I think that just means that the men get farther?
Women who are like this (flaky, serious attentional issues, deeply not in control of their executive function when they’re not fascinated by something) often also don’t improve much, but because they’re not given a pass it really hurts them, and they fail out or give up. I’ve definitely seen this happen among students and employees (a man and a woman have the same issues, it must be because the man is a genius, and because the woman is not really committed or reliable).
pugsnbourbon
+1 million to anon at 12:20. Men are the absentminded professors; women don’t get tenure.
Anon
I agree with you, Anon at 12:20. Most of the male scientists I know like this are in their fifties or older (often 70s or 80s). Academic science has gotten so much more competitive that even geniuses won’t succeed anymore unless they’re on top of everything and good at schmoozing. It’s also the case that those older men mostly had wives that took care of everything at home and acted as unpaid assistants. Younger men might still have wives that take care of more of the home work, but they don’t usually type their papers, organize field work, and do the schmoozing for them anymore.
Anon
Should you not put wood utensils in the dishwasher? I put everything in the dishwasher. I learnt something new here.
I am good at some things (professor, scientist) and don’t care enough about others (handwashing stuff, what kind of chillies my husband wanted me to pick up – apparently jalapeno, not the small ones I got) so it isn’t just men.
Anon
To the Anon professor— To me the difference is that it sounds like your husband said or wrote “chilis” (there are a billion different kinds), where the OP wrote “spring mix” on the list. Just basic reading would have led OP’s husband to a container of spring mix rather than iceberg lettuce. It would be different if she’d said “lettuce” and he had to make some sort of decision.
I have zero patience for this type of feigned incompetence. If anything, being smart at other tasks would heighten my annoyance because it is clear he does not have a problem with reading comprehension. “Spring mix” and “almond milk” are not difficult concepts in modern American grocery stores where they are in packages that are clearly labeled.
I think you should tell him that it hurts you when he does not pay attention to these kinds of tasks (which, btw, are exceedingly basic) and then ask him to re-do the task. If he balks or tries to tell you that he did it right, then I think you have your answer that he doesn’t actually want to help and he is acting like a man child.
Nesprin
Am a female engineer- would LOVE to be an idiot savant. I barely keep it together with my ADD most days.
But I get called 7x when husband goes to the store, do all the interfacing with institutions and do all our book keeping and tax stuff.
Anonymous
Ok- I’m anon at 10:46 and this makes sense to me. I’m totally familiar with people who are geniuses in some aspects and totally incompetent in others. Given this context I’m inclined to think he’s not deliberately messing with you -this might be a personality quirk.
I see three choices : 1. Accept that he can’t shop 2. Approach his failures with love and good humor but try to teach him to do better (“Babe I love it when you pick up coffee but the wrong one is a bummer! Minty syrup in regular coffee? It’s like a mouthwash accident- call me if the barista is confused by peppermint mocha.”) and 3. Accept that you can’t accept this and call it quits.
Anon 2.0
While this board leans critical and thus this opinion may not be the favorite, I vote let it go. I tend to have a bit of an “old fashioned” mindset to marriage and these things. Just let it go. Pack it up in a mental box of things that your husband does that drive your crazy, put it on the shelf, and let it stay there. Let him lean into things he is really good at. You say he is good at chemistry and getting out a stain, then he leans into doing laundry for example 100%. Good at repairs? Make the home repairs, car maintenance, etc 100% his job. Signed, the person who has bought the wrong ice cream at least 34324234 times.
Anon
I’m 100% with you.
Anonymous
+1. Give him the tasks that he is legitimately good at and nicely refuse his offers to do the things that he will inevitably mess up. I think it was RBG who said, “In every good marriage, it helps to be a little deaf.”
Anonymous
Agreed. Just a gentle reminder—as I single person, I do EVERY single grocery trip on my own. No one even tries to help. I certainly do t have a genius at getting out random stains hanging around at home with me either. Random stains? My responsibility. I game no science or laundry background, so that means internet read each, just like for every other task that crops up which needs to be addressed. I think it would be nice to have help, even if that help wasn’t 100% perfect.
Anon
So your husband just isn’t gifted in this area. My husband is incredibly capable but there are a few things (of course they are things I really care about and am good at) that he just can’t do. And you know what? When I was honest with myself, I realize he could make a similar list about me. So now we laugh about it and he hands me all the kid forms to fill out, I hand him the calendar reminders for our family commitments, and we similarly divide and conquer. We literally cannot meet the other person’s standard on these things, so we don’t try. We both give the other person help to make for a smoother transition (ie if one of us is out of town and the thing needs to get done by the person who is bad at it) and let go when we can. Anything less than this just leads me to resent him/treat him like he’s stupid/lash out/talk about him poorly to others. <—- I don’t want him doing those things with me, so this is how I protect our relationship.
Anonymous
‘isn’t gifted’ oh god why do we always have to make excuses for mediocre men?! They have the ability, they just choose not to. Think of every guy who is super into *weird niche hobby* if he can remember those details he can grocery shop and just chooses not to.
Anon
Totally agree. This is a choice.
Anonymous
OK, there’s mediocre men (for sure!) but there’s also “ridiculous standards of current life”, which honestly, we’d be better off if *more women abandoned*, than if more men adopted.
Spring mix versus spinach mix versus whatever?
No wonder we are all suffering from anxiety disorders. People just didn’t have these choices 50 years ago. Lettuce was lettuce. It still can be!
(Still not convinced we could all step back a little? Are you planning to learn the intricacies of a lawn mower or your car because your husband understands those details and thinks you should too? Men aren’t the only ones doing feigned incompetence).
I can’t tell if OP’s husband is a jerk or not, but food for thought for all of us.
Nora
Lettuce and spinach are literally different vegetables.
You don’t even have to recognize them, it’s labeled.
In any case, I think an organic chemistry genius should be able to match items in a store to items on a list. Or order the exact thing he’s been told to order.
Anon
Maybe this is true in the abstract, but husband asked OP what she needed and she said “spring mix.” She didn’t say “lettuce” and then got mad that he got something that wasn’t what she secretly wanted. She told him, and he ignored that.
For your lawnmower example, if I texted my SO that I was at the hardware store and is there anything he wants, I would not bring back a random sized blade when he told me what specific blade he needed. I would read the packages and bring back what he asked for if he was actually specific about it!
Anonymous
I never realized I was “gifted” for being able to distinguish between a whole vegetable and a container of vegetables.
Anon
Effffff that. Grocery shopping is not just for “gifted” people. Stop lowering the damn bar.
Anon
Yes! I’m kind of shocked that the bar is on (or below!) the floor for a lot of these comments!
I’m not saying to get a divorce if he “can’t” grocery shop. But I am saying that it should be a basic expectation that a grown adult can read a label to minimally complete a task that he offered to do.
Anonymous
Get to the bottom of whether this is intentional or not. Easier said than done because if it’s intentional then of course he’s not going to admit it. If you want the marriage to continue then I think you’ll have to give him the benefit of the doubt, even if you have to go to absurd lengths. Especially if this is a new thing, I would take it very seriously if suddenly he can’t tell the difference between a head of lettuce and a box/bag of spring mix. Time to go to all the doctors to figure out what’s impacting his ordinary reasoning skills – could be early onset Alzheimer’s or a brain tumor or depression or who knows what. Guess he’s getting a lot of blood work and tests run over the holidays.
Anon
I read all of this including your responses and here’s where I think your husband is:
1) organic chemistry issues like getting stains out = Important
2) your specific requests = Not Important
Only you can tell whether this is done maliciously but it’s definitely a problem that he doesn’t regard your things as important. That’s contempt at best, an intentional F You at worst.
Don’t make any more excuses for this. It’s not OK.
Anon
OP here: I definitely feel like he enjoys challenging or problem-solving tasks, and hates rote repetitious tasks. I don’t believe that he should get to cherry pick only the aspects of our household management that he enjoys, thus leaving me the dregs. “I don’t wanna” doesn’t fly when you’re forty-something and part of a couple who (presumably) shares the load. So going out of his way to offer to do something that he hates, and then doing it poorly, is just plain stup1d.
Lots to think about here, good points made by many. I appreciate everyone chiming in.
Anonymous
This sounds very much like ADHD. People with ADHD can focus intensely on something that interests them, but cannot motivate themselves to do anything they find uninteresting.
Anon
He doesn’t think the exact details matter. Not that it’s not important.
I am a person who follows the 80/20 rule – I get something “good enough” whereas my husband will go the extra mile. For example, buying soccer cleats for my soccer player kid. I would just buy something on sale on amazon and he would carefully compare specs before picking.
Anon
But he does think details matter when it’s something he regards as Important (see stain removal anecdotes above)
I get the feeling that he knows spring mix and coffee and almond milk are important to OP, but they are not important to him, therefore they are not Important. This is contempt, not incompetence.
Anon
+1
Anon
I don’t think I agree… my husband has messed up my medical dietary restrictions before from absentmindedness, and he is generally more anxious about them than I am (since my health issues scare him more than they scare me; I just deal w/them). I don’t think it’s this easy to conclude that a mistake is due to hostility or contempt or even just not caring.
Anon
Yeah, but it sounds like it’s a pattern, not a one off thing. If it’s every time he goes to the grocery store, it’s not “absent-mindedness”.
Anonymous
Getting 100% of a grocery list wrong is not a mistake….
Anonymous
Yup, he just doesn’t care. OP characterizes it as overcomplicating her requests but I think it’s the opposite: he’s taking everything to a higher level of generalization. Spring mix = lettuce. Fancy s’bucks peppermint drink = peppermint coffee. Almond milk = whatever non-dairy milk I see first. This isn’t a comprehension problem it’s a giving a sh!t problem.
Also for those saying but why would he offer to go to the store if he didn’t care – duh to get brownie points for offering, he was hoping she would say no but thank you so much you’re so sweet for offering to go out of your way for me!
Anonymous
+1
Higher level of generalization is a great term here. He’s being either lazy or cheap, but at a higher level of generalization instead of higher level of service or precision.
Some people don’t pay attention to details at all, though or small differences, or have different preferences. I know that if I ask one friend to buy “OJ for mimosas”, she’ll get the cheapest one, in a big economy box where you need scissors to open it and there’s no way to close the carton but theoretically best value for money. If I ask a different friend, I’ll get fresh organic juice with bits, theoretically the best quality. But if I say “OJ without bits but the screwtop bottle” to any of them, that’s exactly what I’ll get. And certainly not apple juice, which I assume OP’s husband would drag home…
Anonymous
Yep. I’ve been with my partner for 7 years, lived together for 5. For all that time, he’s seen me order coffee with a specific type of milk, buy that milk at the store, and has seen me change coffee shops when one decided not to serve my specific milk any longer. If I asked him to get coffee and he got something that want what I specifically get, I’d be pissed, and he knows I’d rather make my own coffee at home than be brought something that isnt exactly what I want. But I’ve literally never bought “spring mix”. If I asked for that and he bought the regular leafy salad mix we get, I’d cut him some slack, but my partner would generally ask what it’s for and be able to decide what works. Only OP know if her Starbucks order is something that could reasonably be interpreted as an exact order or not, but the fact that she’s bringing this up here indicates that she expected him to bring what she asked for.
Anon
It’s absolutely this. I very much get “My wife divorced me because I left my dishes by the sink” vibes from this situation.
Anon
Maybe I’m being naive, but I don’t see why he would offer to do these things if he’s just intending to get them wrong. OP, did you ask him why he bought those items instead of the things on your list? I’d start there, personally.
Anonymous
He was hoping she would say no, but he still gets brownie points for offering. By doing it badly, he ensures that he can continue to offer to do stuff and she will always decline his offer.
Anonymous
+1 Ooh yeah, good call.
Here’s the link, if anybody’s not read it:
https://mustbethistalltoride.com/2016/01/14/she-divorced-me-because-i-left-dishes-by-the-sink/
Also:
Anonymous
+1
Here’s the post, if anybody hasn’t read it yet:
https://mustbethistalltoride.com/2016/01/14/she-divorced-me-because-i-left-dishes-by-the-sink/
Anonymous
Honestly, it is things like this that turned me off from marriage at a young age. Not so much having a man who is bad at following my directions, but the mental gymnastics about his intentions and incompetencies and flaws and then the sniping (inside the marriage and then outside, too) and mutual contempt that result in misery for everyone. It is all I can see when I look at most marriages and while I would love to split rent and utilities, I have never thought it’s worth it. I guess it might be if reliable safe and monogamous s=x in marriage wasn’t a myth.
Anon
Good marriages are nothing like this.
Anonymous
The fact that the commenter thinks marriage is about splitting rent and utilities and reliable $ex makes me think that they don’t understand the purpose of marriage.
Anonymous
I understand the purpose of marriage, and I have seen a few couples that seem to accomplish or at least work toward that purpose, but nearly all the ones I see are not good and involve a well of contempt and resentment.
Anonymous
Solidarity. My husband just asked our teenager to text me to ask how to get to Target. Between the two of them, they have two phones with GPS and web browsers.
pugsnbourbon
I just screamed into my office cardigan on your behalf
Anon
I hope you didn’t respond.
Anonymous
This reminds me of the time when I was very sick with a baby at home. My husband volunteered to take time off work to drive me to the doctor’s office and watch the baby during my appointment. That turned into “I’ll watch the baby and work from home while you drive yourself” and then to “I’m doing work; you go by yourself and take the baby.”
Anonymous
I mostly agree with people’s comments that expecting someone to get groceries from the grocery store correct is a low expectation. Just wanted to suggest something, which may be a bit out of left field, could it be a slight cultural issue? I grew up low/middle middle class, immigrant, and we bought the cheapest, most basic groceries our entire life. I’m in my mid thirties now, a lawyer, and only recently started buying Spring Mix, because growing up it was wasteful to buy precut up lettuce with some slight variety when a head of lettuce can be cut up and is cheaper. Same with milk, only ever bought regular (and the gallon size because its cheaper than a smaller size). Same with Starbucks. I’ve only ever gotten coffee or tea, their cheapest/most basic items. Maybe hot chocolate.
I’m also a from a family of scientists, and some of them are not the same as normal people when it comes to getting basic things like feelings, how they need to put in effort, how they need to communicate with others, etc. While blessed in some ways, they are less blessed in social/emotional/cultural intelligence. I agree that we put a lot different cultural expectations regarding competence and basic life skills on boys vs girls, but I also think that there are people who are just different in their inate abilities.
Anonymous
Nobody is this incompetent. He just doesn’t care.
Anon
I recently upgraded my phone to one with a glass cover. I can resign from my job and devote myself 24/7 to trying to get rid of the bubble behind the glass, no? Will this urge eventually pass? I am not an OCDish person by nature, but compared to a 4YO phone screen, it’s so clear and obvious and I’m not used to that.
Cat
i have never had an issue with a bubble behind a glass cover and didn’t exactly stress over the installation process. The plastic ones are so much worse! Maybe you got a lemon.
Anon
I have a giant piece of lint under mine and it haunts me.
Anonymous
Absolutely you can resign from your job so that you clear space to deal with this. Sadly, the bubble under my glass cover has not gone away. It hurts me.
Anon
I’d just get rid of the glass cover and make sure your case is strong. I typically just get a known brand that apple carries (so not a cheapie from Amazon). As long as it isn’t the sleekest case they sell, it’s typically pretty sturdy. That is often enough to fend off broken screens as long as it’s handled with a bit of care.
Nom
I have absolutely just peeled off the offending cover and put a brand new one on instead. Was 100% worth the ~$15 to not obsess about that damn bubble for the next 2+ years.
Anonymous Canadian
If you mean the screen protector, then you have to replace it, or in the alternative, quit your job.
If it’s an issue with the phone itself I would seriously return as defective.
I fear the urge to get rid of the bubble would never pass for me.
Good luck and report back if you fix it!
COVID Wedding
Can I please vent for a few minutes? I scheduled our small wedding in February at a time when it seemed realistic (all attendees will have to be double vaxxed and boosted to enter the space, it’s a small group, no dancing, etc.) and I’m already hearing from people that they think I should postpone, reach out to the venue to find out about cancellation policies, etc. Is it terrible of me to say either (1) it’s an invitation, not a summons, so either assume the risk of coming based on the precautions and existing health guidance or decline, I don’t care either way, or (2) I’m canceling the entire thing, not rescheduling to suit other people’s preferences (which aren’t even guided by public health advice at this point), and are always subject to another delay, another risk of outbreak, etc.
I am just so over this and frankly, couldn’t care less about the wedding at all at this point. It’s not going to be the type of wedding other people got to have pre-COVID anyway.
Anon
I wouldn’t cancel. Let people make their own decisions about going and take on the data so you can adjust the numbers accordingly. And dance if you want to. We are going to live with variants forever. Some people will take a long time to resume life, but you don’t have to be one of them.
Anon
I reread your last line, if you’re truly over it, I cannot recommend eloping enough. I did it pre-pandemic and it was the most romantic day of my life. And the only people who mattered in all the decisions were me and my now husband, and that was amazing.
Anonymous
+1 for elopement. I still wish I had been able to convince my husband to elope. The reality of hosting a wedding never lives up to your expectations and dreams. An elopement is so romantic and personal.
No Face
If you want a wedding, then make your rules, let everyone know, and tell them no hard feelings if they cannot attend. I am relatively cautious, but I went to two weddings this year as my exceptions. They were wonderful and great. And there was eating, dancing, hugging, etc. We all knowingly accepted the risk.
If you are and your spouse don’t actually care about the wedding anymore, get as much money back as you can and go on a kicka$$ honeymoon.
Anon
+1. I eloped and have never regretted it. If you want a wedding, have a wedding but just accept it won’t be the same as one not during a pandemic and make very clear to people that you don’t expect them to come. I personally wouldn’t attend a wedding right now, but I wouldn’t blame someone who had one with reasonable precautions if they didn’t get mad at me for not attending.
Anonymous
#1, but only if you mean it and are not going to guilt-trip them for the rest of their lives for opting out.
Nom
I mean, I personally would pick option 2: I am a hyper-introvert who does not like wedding celebrations or being the center of attention, so I would be 100% relieved to have a great excuse to cancel and do a micro Zoom wedding. And +1 to the suggestion to get as much money back as possible and have an amazing honeymoon. BUT if that is not you, and having a gathering is important to you, I get that too, and option 1 also seems reasonable. Especially if you emphasize the “invitation not summons” to everyone.
Anonymous
I wouldn’t cancel unless the people who really needed to be there were uncomfortable. Like my spouse to be. Maybe our parents. Other than that, people can make their own decisions about their comfort levels.
Anonnymouse
I’m planning a wedding for next year too (not until October) and I can imagine your frustration. At the end of the day, you’re doing your best to accommodate everyone, and weddings are usually planned way in advance and you can’t predict how things may change over time.
If I were you, I would move forward with your wedding in February and tell your guests that you’re doing xyz things to help the gathering stay safe, but you will completely understand if they are not comfortable attending. You’re looking forward to getting married and don’t want to risk postponement indefinitely.
At this point, it’s only a few months away. I agree with you that it’s an invitation, not a summons, but inevitably people will make something about them when it is not about them.
Anon
Your wedding is in six works; barring a natural disaster or Ebola outbreak, it’s going on. Vaccinated, boosted, small group – bam, done. Anyone you reschedule it for isn’t going to come in six months either.
Anon
are the people you are hearing from like your closest family members who you really want there? can you add in rapid tests for everyone morning of the event? i’m so sorry for all of the brides since March 2020. yes i know a wedding is only one day and marriage is a lifetime, but i loved our wedding. though as a twenty something i definitely got a bit too caught up in the wedding hoopla, which truly brought out the worst in everyone
Equestrian Attorney
We are also planning a small wedding and I feel your pain – it’s so hard to figure out what makes sense. I think it’s totally fair to say at this point, you just want to be married to your SO and will proceed with it with whatever precautions make sense/reflect the guidelines at the time, and that you look forward to celebrating with those unable to attend later.
Anon 2.0
If you are truly over it, 100% elope. When DH and I married it was on a beach, no guests, quick easy and carefree. Did it ruffle a few family feathers? Yep. Does it matter? Nope. If people complained I reminded them they made decisions about their wedding and it was my turn now. Make sure your future husband is on board and then stand by your decision as a unified front. I have zero regrets and only happy memories of what we chose.
Anonymous
OP here – thank you all. I wanted to elope in the first place and we’re doing our ceremony privately in any case. The only reason we’re having a wedding at all is because of family pressure on his side, as my family isn’t even coming. I’ve hated pretty much every moment of wedding planning, in large part because of the family issues and the fact that I.just.don’t.care. At this point, the financial impact of canceling is minimal because our wedding was so low-key in the first place, and I refuse to get caught in the sunk cost fallacy of thinking about the $300 in invitations that may have been a waste. We’re getting married regardless of whatever wedding we have, so I can use my dress and shoes, it’s just feeling like we’re disappointing people no matter what.
Anonymous
Don’t have a wedding for other people. If you don’t want one, elope.
Anon
I’m sorry, OP, this whole situation sounds like it really sucks.
No Face
Have an honest conversation with future spouse. You are having a wedding for his family essentially, and if several of them aren’t comfortable attending at this point then it makes sense to cancel and elope.
Anonanonanon
Reading this made my heart hurt for you. Whatever you choose, I hope you have a nice wedding and I echo everyone else that elopement sounds awesome. I am so sorry everything is complicated.
Anon
You’re mad at your guest list for having their own levels of COVID cautions that are different than yours. Independent of whether you go forward with your wedding or not, you need to get past this resentment. The world is not having a pandemic at you and people are not being cautious at you.
Anon
OMG no she isn’t.
Anonymous
+1.
I think most people who are going ahead with weddings right now are selfish bridezillas and groomzillas, but OP sounds like the opposite of a bridezilla. She is frustrated that she is having a wedding just to please these people and now they don’t want to come. I am a COVID-cautious person who wouldn’t attend a wedding now, and I still think she has every reason to be annoyed. OP, if anyone has ever been “justified” in eloping (not that you need a justification), it’s you. Do what YOU and your future spouse want to do.
anonymous
I am not mad at my guest list for having their own levels of caution/anxiety, but I am annoyed (justifiably so) at them putting it on me and expecting that I would accommodate it. If people don’t want to come, great, our venue will be less crowded and will have more time to other people. What I think is pretty selfish is that guests are voicing an expectation that their preference (which again, is NOT aligned with existing and prevailing public health guidance for vaccinated people to gather) should somehow be given precedence over the bridge/groom’s own decision-making and to do otherwise is somehow irresponsible and selfish. I’m so sick of the preferences of people whose caution is not guided by either rational decision-making or risk benefit analysis being elevated over others under the guise of “they’re being the responsible party here, and you, by making a different choice, are a selfish bridezilla.”
Anon
Absolute claps for you OP, completely agree.
H13
Looking for a 100% classic wool sweater. Something warm and thick that will last forever. I tried one from LL Bean but its too big in the shoulders in the petite sizing. Where is a great place to get a classic wool sweater these days?
Monday
Vintage every time. Poshmark, Etsy, or EBay. Search for 100% wool and see a photo of the tag.
Anon
Agreed, with the caveat that I open the box in the garage to check the item condition so I can accept the transaction, then I immediately put the whole box inside a ziplock bag and put it in the freezer for a few weeks. I had moths once, and I am not messing around with that nonsense again.
Monday
+1 to the freezer. I do this for anything 100% wool second-hand.
anne-on
What style are you looking for? Thick and chunky fair isle or thinner ‘dress’ sweaters? Talbots, Brooks Brothers and LL Bean have great options for both. If you want to spend $$ I am still drooling over some dale of Norway sweaters after watching Home for Christmas.
H13
Chunky! I have so many that I regret giving away about 10-15 years ago. I do think wool sweaters can last for a very long time!
Anon
Sweaters are not meant to last forever and look good. If you get a few seasons out of one, consider it a win.
No Face
I still have some of my grandmother’s sweaters from the 1980s, in excellent condition. It’s really sad that companies were able to convince people that their products shouldn’t last.
lifer
+1
Sweaters can absolutely last forever. My vintage ones are all beautiful, and a fabric shaver helps occasionally. I have to assume that Anon at 10:22 is very young…. or used to fast fashion/poor quality, which unfortunately is common these days.
Anon
Nope, I’m an old and hate to break it to you but those vintage sweaters don’t look so hot either. Maybe fine for a weekend, but I wouldn’t wear when I want to look pulled together.
Formerly Lilly
“Sweaters are not meant to last forever and look good.” Ah, but they used to be and I am so disappointed at the terrible decline in the quality of mid-range clothing. I am an Old and have, ahem, sized out of my old clothing. One of the biggest incentives I have to get in shape is to get back into my old, high quality, classic clothing. I even have some of my mother’s and grandmothers’s sweaters, wool skirts, and fancy dresses (ivory sheath made of a heavy shantung silk for example, is to die for whether or not sheath dresses are currently on trend imho) that I would love to get back into. It’s a bigger incentive than vanity or health concerns, honestly.
Anon
+1
Honestly I would love to find clothes of the quality that was still available in the 90s, let alone fit back into my grandmother’s things.
Anon
Yes, sweaters can last generations; when I was younger and thinner I wore my grandma’s sweaters too. Lay flat to dry, take care of occasional pilling (if they even pill). They can take a lot of wear.
Anon
I’m a knitter and that is not true. A well cared for hand knit will last for generations.
Anon
Woolovers
Katie
Pendleton?
pugsnbourbon
I’d look at Pendleton, or The Icelandic Store: https://icelandicstore.is/collections/womens-pullovers
I think this was linked here a year ago – basically grandmas in Iceland knit these sweaters. I can’t tolerate wool but I love the idea.
Anon
+1 to Woolovers
Anonymous
Look for Aran sweaters on Etsy or traditional Irish, UK or Scandi retailers. Or Icelandic.
Aran sweaters are the chunky cable knits.
Don’t get something made from merino, but a thicker and more hardy wool. Icelandic or Shetland wool is very hard wearing, but are suited for outdoor use, and you need a layer underneath.
Here’s a couple classic UK places:
https://www.peregrineclothing.co.uk/ladies/knitwear
https://www.harleyofscotland.com/womens-collections-2/
H13
Those are lovely. Thank you!
Anon
Has anyone ever used a stylist? Like not the in-store personal shoppers, but an actual stylist? I feel like I don’t need more clothes but just someone to help me shop my closet and put together outfits after 2 years in athleisure (or be candid that some things just don’t work and perhaps never did). I come from a formal work environment (casual now) and it really isn’t hard to put suit-type outfits together but I am struggling.
Anon
My best girlfriend does this informally. We’ve spent time in my closet and she’ll text outfit ideas and pieces I might like. She’s incredibly stylish so it’s worked great. I also love clothes, so that helps. Call your most stylish friend and ask for help.
anon
I’m going to use one as my Christmas and birthday gift to myself. I know a few women in my area who have used her and I’m excited!
Anon
Ok, I can see this either way and would appreciate your input. My beloved housekeeper has worked for us for 6 years. Seriously, this woman is like family. I pay her on the first of the month for the whole month (so if there are 5 Wednesdays in a month, she gets $800 – $160 per visit). This November and December, I’ve uncharacteristically not needed her for 4 weeks, but I’ve still paid her for the whole month. Do I still give her a Christmas bonus? Like I said, I can see it both ways – she always gets a Christmas bonus from me, but she hasn’t had to clean my house 4 times recently ($640). (She runs her own business with helpers – not a service.)
Anon
I had my housekeeper stay home during the height of the pandemic in 2020, and I still gave her a bonus that year. I also always let her skip a week if she’s sick, or one of her kids is sick, and pay her. I feel like when she is working for me on a steady schedule for a long period of time, I treat her like a salaried employee. This would of course be different if I was a client who just called her every few weeks as needed.
Anon
Yes. No question.
Anonymous
Agreed.
NYCer
+1. This is a no brainer IMO.
anon
100%, yes.
Anon
How is this even a question. Scrooge, she depends on your income and a bonus around the holidays is part of that. If you can afford a weekly cleaner, you can pay her a bonus. SMH.
Cat
Yes. Given the long term relationship, think about it this way — let’s say you had two slow months at work this year. Would you expect not to get a bonus because you got more salary than you “deserved”?
Anon
Housecleaners aren’t salaried.
Cat
I know that, that’s why I made an analogy. A good cleaner is HARD to find. Don’t punish her for two slow months.
Anon
Really missing the point 11:21
Anon 2.0
Exactly. You are buying goodwill and thanking someone for the service they have provided you for years. Good housekeepers, and really any other service, can be very hard to find.
No Face
I view the bonus as comp for the year and purchasing goodwill for the future, so yes.
Anonymous
Yes give her a bonus but I wouldn’t have paid for services I didn’t use, personally. For me, this person isn’t a part time employee, I don’t pay them enough to need to do anything tax wise. I’m not paying PTO for someone who isn’t my employee.
paging pecan pie bars King Arthur person
Paging King Arthur pecan pie squares recipe person….please post the recipe…thanks a million!
Anon
Is it not on the King Arthur website . . .
lmgtfy
Can you not find it here?
www . kingarthurbaking . com / recipes / pecan-pie-bars-recipe
Nom
It wasn’t me but I think this might be what you’re looking for :
https://www.kingarthurbaking.com/recipes/pecan-pie-bars-recipe
If you were searching for “squares” that’s probably why it wasn’t popping up, they’re listed as “bars” instead :)
Anonanonanon
Not OP but thank you for the genuine reply, everyone seems extra cranky today.
OP
I don’t think that’s the one..yesterday’s poster noted cream cheese on the base…thanks!
Anonymous
Now I am super curious how you got to this s!te without an internet browser.
Celia
Hey there.
Here you go!
Rich Pecan Pie Bars
CRUST
1/2 c. + 2T butter
4 oz cream cheese
1/4 c. sugar
1 3/4 c. flour
1/2 t. salt
1/2 t. baking powder
Preheat oven to 425f. Butter a 10×15 pan or similar size.
Beat the butter and cream cheese until smooth. Cut in the sugar, flour, salt and baking powder. Mix it together until crumbly, yet it holds together if you squeeze it. Dump it in to the pan (crumbly is fine), and press it down all around the pan and at the edges. Bake for 10 minutes and remove from the oven.
Reduce the oven temperature to 350f.
FILLING
4 eggs
¾ c. corn syrup
1 c. sugar
4 T melted butter
¼ c. cream
2 T rum (optional)
2 t. vanilla
½ t. salt
1 ¾ c. chopped pecans
Whisk all the ingredients together. Pour it over the crust. Bake for about 30 minutes, or until the top looks puffy. Remove from the oven and let cool completely before cutting up.
MY NOTES
The recipe uses 1/2 package of cream cheese, and I never seem to be able to use the other half, cuz as a single person I can’t justify making two batches at once. So make a dip? I use a 9.5 x 13.5 inch pan that has ridges and is “non-stick.” I’ve never had a sticking problem. I use an entire 8 oz package of chopped pecans from TJs, because what can I do with ¼ c. of pecans?! I bake it for 32 minutes.
OP
This looks wonderful!! Thank you so much!!!! Happy Holidays!!!
Celia
They’re DELICIOUS. I had five pieces in one day last time I made ’em. Brought the pan to an office party and only one other person had one! The shame! So, I ate two there to make up for it (and the first one was quality control, the other two were dessert).
Anon
My department had a mid-day virtual holiday party on Friday, then let everyone sign off for the day at noon. I put my phone on DnD, ran my final Xmas errands, and then had a relaxing unplugged weekend.
Yesterday morning, I signed back in and found out that Friend 1 had written me on Friday evening to say that Friend 2’s mom had died out of the blue, and the funeral was Saturday morning (so, about 16 hours notice). We missed everything, and Friend 2 was HUGELY supportive when we had a similar loss this summer. He’s a shift worker and took time off to come to services.
I’m 70% heartbroken that we failed Friend 2. I’m 30% pissed off that the universe decided to punish me for wanting to get away from my phone and computer for just one GD weekend.
Anonymous Grouch
I suspect that the short notice meant that you were not the only person to miss the funeral. Since you mention that your friend is an hourly worker who took time off when you had a loss, can you find out if there’s a fund, or make a gift to help with funeral and other costs they might be dealing with? Or even just a dining gift card (Uber Eats or such) to use in the dark days of January if they’re feeling down and money is tight?
pugsnbourbon
Oh no! I can see why you feel awful but you truly didn’t do anything wrong.
I’m sure you’ve already reached out to Friend 2. Maybe check with Friend 1 about any practical or material help #2 needs?
Vicky Austin
Oh no, that’s really hard. I agree with pugs that you did nothing wrong, this is just a crappy set of circumstances.
Anon
It’s not your fault but if you take anything away from this, please establish a personal email you use for personal matters and make sure all your friends know and use it.
I left a company where I’d worked for 20 years 6 years ago and I think people are still emailing me there.
Anon
OP here: I did not communicate this well, but I am not getting personal stuff at my work address. I just meant that I simultaneously logged off my work machine AND turned off my personal cell for the weekend.
Anon
Whether you think it’s a good thing or not, the fact is that we do not live in a world where turning your phone completely off for a couple of days works for most of us.
You made a choice when you turned your phone off. You said “nothing that anyone could want to communicate to me during this time is worth disturbing my rest and relaxation.” Yes, including your friend’s crisis. Now you’re living with the consequences of that choice.
NYCer
OP, I feel for you, but at the same time I agree with Anon. It would be extremely rare circumstances that I would not check my personal email or text messages for an entire weekend. Maybe if I were on a pre-planned vacation in Patagonia or Nepal or something, but I cannot imagine ever doing it on a random weekend at home. My version of disconnecting on a regular weekend is more like an attempt to mindless scrolling, etc., but I still periodically check email and texts.
Anon
J F C what is wrong with you?
NYCer
I meant an attempt to *limit* mindless scrolling, of course.
Anon
Holy crap you guys, she’s just coming here to vent I don’t think you need to pile on and point out every mistake she’s made and flaw she has.
Anon
Good lord, you’re a terrible person.
Anon
Good lord, deciding to be offline for the weekend is not some kind of reprehensible irresponsible behavior and doesn’t merit a finger-wagging “now you’re living with the consequences.”
OP, this is unfortunate and I can tell you feel badly. That being said, this just happened and your friend will definitely need support in more than just the first few days after the loss. Showing up at funerals is not the only thing that grieving people need. Grief lingers. It’s not too late to reach out now, and in fact, you should.
anon
+1, I also agree with Anon at 1:01, although it was worded poorly. I think in general there is almost no time I would turn off my personal cell for an entire weekend, in part for fear of missing something like this (or worse!). That said, I agree with the others that it is not too late to reach out now and offer support.
Anon
Did you take a wrong turn on the way to scolding your toddler for something?
AITA
(Reposting from late yesterday for more feedback and with additional context)
My in laws have finally made it to the US after not being able to see the family for over 2 years, and have been staying with us for the past few weeks. I’m glad that my husband has been able to spend time with his parents as they are aging and may not have many good years left. However, my husband is leaving for a week long business trip soon – so far it’s unlikely that it will be cancelled.
Is it unreasonable that I don’t want his parents to stay here alone with me while he is gone? They could potentially go live with his sister, but her house is more crowded as she has 2 kids and not enough rooms for everyone while we have a spare bedroom (no kids yet). They aren’t overly demanding and we get along fine, but at the same time we aren’t close and I haven’t really had any privacy for a month as an introvert (they don’t leave the house much and I WFH). I feel a lot of guilt as a bad DIL since we are Southeast Asian.
BeenThatGuy
I think it’s perfectly reasonable to send them over to their daughters house. Your husband should coordinate with his sister to make this happen. You shouldn’t feel guilty, you’ve hosted them for several weeks already.
Anon
Could they spend days with sister and her kids but still spend the nights at your place? Any way you can tag along on husband’s work trip?
Equestrian Attorney
I think this would be my preferred option. I feel your pain as an introvert with no kids and a nice guest suite – my SO’s aunt stayed with us for a month this summer, and although she was lovely it got really overwhelming at times. Fortunately she was out during the day most days, visiting various relatives, and mostly just used our home as a home base. Could you arrange with SIL? Do they have transportation to get to SILs?
Anonymous
Are they the sort of people who will go out and explore on their own – local botanic gardens, holiday lights exhibits, walking city tour, etc come to mind – or will you have to play host (meals together, planning things for them)? Will you be working while spouse is gone? What are the expectations on each side?
Because several weeks is a long time to host, and a week will feel really long if your spouse is not around. I get it though. I’m East Asian, my parents need some degree of babysitting / handholding when they visit the US and are not self-starters when it comes to grandchild care (i.e I get why SIL might not want to host). I do think omicron is a good reason to postpone the work trip if possible. Husband will probably not want to risk exposing his parents when he returns.
AITA
OP here – I will be working while my husband is gone so I guess that takes care of the daytime, but I still have all nights and weekend with them. I don’t necessarily have to entertain them, but they don’t drive in the US so they are basically always around. They plan to stay for a few months until they can get booster shots. As it is, they don’t spend much time at SIL’s because one kid or the other is always sick and they’re very concerned about covid.
The responses today are actually quite different than last night, and I am trying to reframe my attitude to be more considerate.
Anon
They are very different. FWIW, I’m white but was shocked by the responses last night. I think a lot of people who hang out here have very weird attitudes about extended family relationships and family obligations. I don’t know any white people that would be comfortable kicking their in-laws out of their house just because their spouse had a business trip.
Anon
Are they here for months? I’m not getting why your husband is going on a business trip in the middle of their visit, and Omicron (so many companies are reverting away from the office that a face to face trip doesn’t make sense right now). Either way, husband and sister should coordinate for when he’s gone and they should go to sister.
Anonymous
I’m white and 7th+ generation American, and I’m sorry to say that even I don’t see any way you can ask your in laws to stay with your husband’s sister while he’s away. I do think you can ask your husband to talk to his sister about inviting them over for longer stretches while he’s gone. I also think you could try being open with them about needing some down time in your room (or whatever) – you could say that you usually use these times when your husband is traveling to recharge on your own. You said they’re nice and reasonable, so they might not be offended if you’re direct and cheerful about it?
Anon
+1
NYCer
I agree with all of this.
Anon
Me too.
Cat
I agree with all of this. It sounds reasonable, loving, and fair.
Formerly Lilly
I agree with all this too, and think that while it may feel awkward at first this is a really good opportunity to get to know your in laws. However, It’s a big ask and a fair bit of time with them, so I would have some plans, personal or with work as an excuse, real or conjured up, that will give you time away from them even if all you do is go read a book in a park.
Anonymous
Agree on this. I also might fake some work emergencies to go off and read a bit on my own or listen to a podcast or do whatever I needed to do to give myself a break here or there. And maybe try to schedule an activity (cooking together, going out to view lights, etc.) and then break time on some of those days. This gives some balance and advanced knowledge/expectation that you all might do some alone time if desired on an afternoon or whatnot. They probably don’t want to feel “on” all of the time either.
Equestrian Attorney
Agreed on the downtime. I tend to announce I need to work, which isn’t uncommon even at random times or during the holidays because of my job’s unpredictable hours. No one needs to know I’m watching Netflix with headphones in my home office.
anon
+4, I think it’s only fair for them to stay with you.
Anonymous
Can you book an office at a co-working location for the week, or work at a friend’s house?
Anonymous
No you can’t kick out your in laws just because your husband isn’t home. He can cancel the trip (he should really try to get out of the trip); he can take them with him; or they stay with you. Sorry. It’s fair to ask for SIL’s help though. Maybe she can entertain them or get them out of the house. Spending time with the grandkids sounds like a great motivator.
If you fear they’ll be disruptive of your workday then address that before your husband leaves. You should also have a backup plan for a place you can work if it becomes too bad; I’m sure a friend would let you hang out on their couch for a few days if you had to.
Also your husband owes you BIG if he truly can’t get out of this trip.
Senior Attorney
This may sound crazy, but can you come up with a “business trip” of your own and spend a night or two (or more) in a hotel while your husband is gone, and leave them in your house? Of if you all have high EQ’s, just say “I have a big work deadline and need some privacy so I’m going to decamp to the Marriott and let you have the run of the house for the week.”
Anonymous
What are your favorite freezer-friendly soup recipes (so no dairy or eggs)? I am planning to spend the holiday break stocking our freezer with soup for our expected breakthrough COVID infection and/or just not feeling like cooking dinner some days in January. So far I am planning the How Sweet Eats butternut squash curry soup, the D@mn Delicious creamy tortellini soup (cream to be added after reheating), a lemon chicken noodle soup, and the Budget Bytes Thai vegetable curry noodle soup. Other suggestions, preferably without Thai curry paste since I already have two based on that flavor?
test run
I love this Mollie Katzen sweet potato/pear soup: https://www.molliekatzen.com/recipes/recipe.php?recipe=golden_pear_soup. And if you don’t mind two butternut squash options, this one is also great: https://cooking.nytimes.com/recipes/1022728-miso-squash-soup. Both are vegan, although I didn’t realize you should freeze soups with dairy. Does it not thaw well?
Vicky Austin
Frozen dairy is prone to separating which makes the soup pretty unappealing. Better to add it after thawing – it’ll freshen up the frozen soup then too.
Anonymous
It sort of curdles when you thaw it.
txblue
ny times spicy white beans with broccoli rabe
You’ll freeze it without the greens (I prefer the broccoli rabe, but you can really use kale or any tough green) and add that while reheating.
Vicky Austin
Ooh let’s see, this is a genre where I feel very at home! heh.
Budget Bytes:
Chunky Lentil & Vegetable Soup
Hearty Meatball Soup
Slow Cooker Black Bean Soup (or really any of her bean or split pea soups, lots of good things there)
I’d also check out the Pinch of Yum freezer meals list, lots of good things there.
Sunflower
https://www.yummly.com/recipe/Chicken-And-Hominy-Soup-Epicurious?prm-v1
Anon
I hate Campbell’s chicken noodle soup and yet love homemade chicken noodle soup (get the bone-in breasts and cook and then pick off the meat and boil the bones to make stock, then bones out / meat in) with cantonese egg noodles.
Also, chili mac (freeze with the noodles) works well, as does Brunswick stew (if you are from Eastern NC).
buffybot
I don’t know how well they would freeze but I completely love 2 of Melissa Clark’s soups on nytimes cooking: red lentil with lemon (although I seem to remember that I adhere to the comments and add more carrot, tomato paste and chicken broth) and the lemony ground turkey with white beans (you’d want to add the fresh herbs when thawing I suppose).
Ribena
I really like a leek and butter bean soup (recipe from bbc good food) – it’s simple and clean tasting.
Anan
Zuppa Toscana from the Kitchn. Basically a sausage, kale and russet potato soup. It does have heavy cream, but you can just freeze without the cream and stir it in when you reheat. Or even go without, it’s still tasty.
Anon
Gumbo and Black Eyed Peas with salt pork both freeze well.
Anonymous
Chicken noodle soup
Sweet potato quinoa chili
roasted tomato soup – add cream after defrosting
anne-on
FYI to those who like yesterday’s pick – the Fold is having their winter sale. Prices don’t come down a ton, but 20-30% off is about as good as their sales get.
Jo April
Does anyone have experience with Aurate jewelry? I’m really tempted by a few of their 18K solid gold earrings.
Anon
Yeah, it’s fine – I’ve bought a few pieces for nicer on-trend items (I don’t wear costume jewelry so I like their price point for fun pieces)
Anon
Our family (two girl teens incl.) has been invited to a bat mitzvah next month that is in the morning (lunch following). Reform temple. What do we wear? I’d say “church clothes,” but we haven’t even been to church in 2 years, so nicer knee-length or longer (or at least not the tunic-length ones often sold to teens as “dresses”) dresses all around? Spouse wears a suit (assuming it still fits)? I know it’s a festive / happy occasion, but I am thinking that anything sparkly would not be right for a morning/lunchtime event. [Depending on COVID, we may go to the service and politely decline the lunch. Or decline it all, but still send a present.]
Also, presents? IIRC there is a digit (8?) that is thought to be lucky if you are giving money?
AIMS
No sparkles, but dressier clothes is right. You husband would probably be fine in a sportscoat. Knee length (an inch above is fine) or midi dresses would work for you/your daughters (I think pants and a pretty top is fine, too). I always think of clothes for this sort of thing as being not out of place in a Talbots catalog. So personalize that in whatever way you like, but let that be the guidepost.
Gifts are in multiples of 18, not 8. Enjoy!
Anon
Basically said the exact same thing in mod, and yes, I forget that sport coat is a man category (to my husband’s chagrin every time I say wear a suit and I mean put on a jacket).
anne-on
No idea why, but I’m stuck in mod. Agree with all of this and prep your family that the ceremony will mostly be in Hebrew and that you won’t be expected to participate in prayers the same way you would at a christian church service.
LaurenB
But you’ll still want to sit and rise as the congregation does (if physically able, of course).
Anon
Gifts are money in multiples of 18. Suit for your husband, sheath dress/blazer/heels kind of look for you (with variations), no kids so haven’t paid attention really to what they wear other than it’s usually dressy, whatever that means in the moment.
Jo April
Yep, nice knee-length dresses, shoulders covered. Trousers/jumpsuits would also be fine (not jeans).
Cash gifts should be given in increments of 18. Jewelry is also a popular bat mitzvah gift, like a necklace with a star of David, hamsa, or chai. A charitable gift card would also be great.
anne-on
It’s common to give gifts in multiples of 18 (chai, or life). I haven’t attended one since I was a teen but in NY/NJ suburbs for family it was common to give between 3-5x chai if one person (kid) was attending, when we went as a family it was about 2-3x chai per person, so between $150-$200~/family. Fwiw, bar/bat mitzvahs I attended were big expensive events, like mini weddings, so you were ‘covering your plate’ to some extent. I think you can go slightly lower since it sounds like a more low-key event.
I’d certainly wear dresses that cover your shoulders and aren’t much above the knee. It is a celebration so something festive is appropriate! Also prepare your teens that much of the ceremony is in Hebrew, it can be hard to follow along.
AZCPA
Yes, church-type clothes. It’s reform so most likely they don’t require women’s shoulders to be covered (long sleeves would play it safe) but dresses or nice slacks will be fine, with suit preferred for men. It’s at the synagogue, and it’s a religious service, so your instincts on not-sparkly is right on.
Traditionally monetary gifts are in multiples of $18.
anne-on
Re sparkles – I have fond memories of VERY big hair and VERY sparkly dresses worn by the women at the bar/bat mitzvahs I went to in the early 90s in the NY/NJ area (plus lots and lots of makeup and jewlery). It was all very glamorous to 12-yr old me – think the outfits worn by the mother/grandmother on the Nanny – and I think it is such a joyful way to show pride in the next generation.
AZCPA
Granted in the west and not NY/NJ, but never saw that at the actual Bat/Bar Mitzvah. For the evening party everyone in my generation had, ALL THE SPARKLES.
Horse Crazy
The number is 18, and it’s not lucky, it’s tradition. Give money in multiples of 18. Yes to nicer knee length dresses and the suit (or at least shirt/tie), no to sparkles. That sounds perfect!
Signed, Reform Jew
Anonymous
No advice, but right there with you on the length of dresses sold in teen sizes. My kid thinks that anything that comes from Altar’d State must automatically be church-appropriate. Haha, nope. I am still trying to figure that store out–is the theme clubbing for Jesus?
Anon
I have never been in this store but the teens at my Whiskeypalian church are definitely clubbing for Jesus.
KJ
Knee length dresses & nylons, jacket and tie for your husband. Your ‘not sparkly’ instinct is good – a morning service and lunch will be festive but not raucous. Around $72 (multiple of 18) is nice if you can swing it.
Cat
yes, knee length dresses are good, and sports coat outfit for spouse. You’d probably be wearing long sleeves or a sweater layer anyway given the season, but when I was on the circuit everyone had covered shoulders for the service.
London (formerly NY) CPA
As a kid in the NYC suburbs, we all wore whatever party dresses we had, including to morning service/lunch reception events. Depends on the scale of the event I guess but these were basically like tiny wedding receptions, so we dressed accordingly.
Seventh Sister
My kid went to a few over the last year and I had good luck finding stuff at Nordstrom Rack in person and off Am*zon by searching for stuff with sleeves and/or knee-length. Since most of them were for Reform girls and a couple weren’t at a temple (one at home, one at a fancy hotel), there were plenty of miniskirts and a few halter dresses.
Seventh Sister
My Protestant kid was in a short-sleeved dress with a knee-length skirt, I like to err on the side of conservative, though I decided long ago that Episcopalian Jesus is OK with jeans at church.
Anonymous
Any tips for a public interest attorney (15 years of experience) interested in transitioning to the private sector? I’ve worked for DHS and legal services organizations, primarily in immigration. I’m completely burnt out and disheartened, and I plan to take some time off in between jobs to recharge. Ivy League undergrad and law degree, if it matters. I don’t even know where to start…
Anokha
The positions come up rarely, but I’ve always been intrigued by the idea of working at a law firm as their public interest coordinator. (Not every firm has one, but some big NYC firms have dedicated attorneys who manage the firm’s pro bono cases and coordinate with partner organizations.)
Anonymous
One of my professional contacts made a career out of actually doing the pro bono work on behalf of a biglaw firm, at a biglaw salary. Seems like a pretty sweet deal.
Sloan Sabbith
+1 Or coordinating public interest work at a law school? Or working at somewhere like Equal Justice Works? Depends on if you’re looking for more pay first and foremost or less stress. If more pay, yeah, look at pro bono coordinator jobs at big law.
Anon
IME, these positions go to senior associates or counsel at the firm that the partners really like and respect, but doesn’t have the business development to become a partner. It would be near impossible to get without currently being at the firm, and especially when you have never been at any firm
Leatty
Do you want to continue practicing immigration law? If so, you might consider shifting to corporate immigration law. Not sure if you are burned out because of the emotional toll of practicing immigration law (which would be lessened in the corporate immigration law space) or the long hours (which might be worse), but it is something to consider.
anon
+1, I also practiced in a field adjacent to immigration law and I noticed that folks from DHS (asylum officers etc) were able to transition to immigration law in the corporate context. You’d certainly make a lot more money and it would help with your burn out. The people I know went specifically to niche firms practicing immigration law exclusively, FWIW.
Anonymous
Corporate immigration law might be an option. I’m burnt out from the futility of representing children and families, hearing their trauma, and knowing there is essentially no relief available for them. There’s a lot of secondary trauma. We have group counseling sessions at our legal services agency to cope. It is a lot for little pay.
anon
my comment is stuck in mod, but definitely research the prominent business immigration law firms in your area. The pay is good (not biglaw money but still good, and far better than gov’t or nonprofits) and they would be looking for someone with your skillset. I will say that unfortunately, an expertise in immigration law doesn’t translate super well to the private sector (the way say, former AUSA would), but there is a niche space for people with those skills, IME. For example, here in CA, Fragomen is one of the biggest corp immigration firms that routinely work with big tech companies to help them with getting employment visas for foreign workers.
Anon for this
A couple of firms to check out – Ogletree Deakins; Gibney Anthony & Flaherty
If you’re looking to go in-house and willing to move to Tampa, check out Citi – they currently have an immigration law Senior Counsel position open
Anon
I’m sorry to hear that anon. I’m also an attorney in a public interest role, dealing with a lot of secondary trauma. Unfortunately my job doesn’t offer any sort of counseling explicitly (of course we are free to seek out our own through insurance). I wish you the best in finding your path forward.
Anonymous
Thanks for your candor!
Anonymous
Would government be an Ok shift? You’d have good work life balance and hopefully better pay. Check out USAjobs.
anon
She said she used to work for DHS and wants private sector, so I doubt she wants to back to gov’t.
Anon
So, our closest couple friends just announced that in the new year, the husband is retiring and they are moving away from our city, to live permanently in a second home they purchased in another city (they’re selling their house here). We’ve been friends for over 20 years; we’ve gone on trips together, spent holidays together, helped each other out in emergencies, dogsat each other’s dogs, etc. I knew this was coming but thought we had a few more years before it came to pass.
Part of what I’m thinking about (in addition to being sad) is that these people were our son’s primary emergency contact – he knew that if something happened to us, or he couldn’t get ahold of us, to call these friends, and one of the first things my friend taught him to do when he got a phone was to call her number, and she programmed it into his phone. Now they will be 5+ hours away, and we don’t have a lot of other local people we could or would call if the chips were down. My parents live 8 hours away, as does my brother. My other really close friends are at least that far away, if not farther. My husband’s mom is in a nursing home in another state. We have another set of local friends he could call on, but they’re not as close. I have one uncle who lives in town, but we barely know him (he and my dad were never close and I’ve actually only spent time with him maybe 5 times in my entire life). It crept up on me, but I am realizing that over the years, as more and more people have moved away, we haven’t replaced those friends with new friends, and maybe we should have. Once my best friend moves away, who should we have as an emergency contact for ourselves and our son?
Senior Attorney
For your son, how about the parents of his closest friend, if you know them reasonably well? For yourselves, what about somebody at work? My husband was single for a long time and has no family so he had his legal assistant as his emergency contact.
Senior Attorney
Also: I’m sorry for what I know is a big loss!
Anon
Does your son have friends? One of the benefits of kids is they come with other local parents. Some suck, but there’s usually an okay few you can befriend. For emergencies I’d go with your kid’s BF’s family, unless they’re unsuitable for some reason.
Anon
Agree with this and it saves me typing out a comment. Over time, my kids’ friends and their families became primary contacts rather than my long time friends, whom my kids knew less well than they knew their friends’ parents.
Cat
Maybe don’t try to replace the huge role these friends filled with one person. Emergency contact – could it be a neighbor you are on friendly if not meaningful terms with? If it’s a health emergency, physical proximity to getting help could be very important.