Gift Idea: Easy Care Plant Subscription

150 Comments

1. How are people changing their behavior for omicron if at all? I’ve been pretty locked down this whole time though had gotten comfortable going to the grocery store or running errands or grabbing takeout at places without curbside say once a week – as in one of these things weekly, not all things in one week. Now I’m like is it back to not leaving my apartment for like ten days at a time and then only doing everything curbside? Triple vaccinated in N. Va. where masking is good but not perfect because there are lots of 25 year old bros around. I do need to grocery shop this week and do some car side errands; part of me is thinking just do that before Dec 24 and grab a chocolate cake or something and spend the next two weeks sitting in my apt in front of the TV watching Christmas movies – I don’t celebrate Christmas so no family travel there and I hadn’t booked an type of vacation.

   1. I am also in VA. The latest run of the UVA model predicts a huge peak in February, and it doesn’t appear that they’ve factored in the fact that masking in schools will end on inauguration day, which should make it worse and/or earlier. I am trying to fit in all my in-person errands and visits within the next few days before people’s Christmas superspreader events light the fuse.

      We have a teenager in school who is not eligible for a booster, so we are assuming we’ll all get breakthrough infections by mid-January. I need to lay in supplies of home test kits, OTC medication, snacks and drinks, and thermometer batteries, and check our pulse oximeter to make sure it works.

   2. Not much – we have an unvaxxed 3 year old so although we got a taste of normal this summer (including a wonderful trip to Hawaii), we have been pretty locked down since early fall. We WFH and curbside everything so really, daycare is our only exposure to the outside world and we need that to do our jobs. We live in a red state, there are no masks required for anything here. We haven’t set foot in a grocery store since the spring and we even had to stop going to the public library because there were many people not in masks. We get takeout/delivery food often. We don’t celebrate Christmas either, but my parents are here for two weeks. They’re more locked down than we are, due to age and serious health conditions, and they drive to visit us. We took a driving vacation in early December to a state with very low case numbers at the time (Florida), but I wouldn’t head out on any trips any time soon.

      1. A quick general reminder that the people that respond to these questions skew covid-cautious. That’s neither good nor bad, but I wanted to chime in since we are in MA and have what I consider a covid-cautious circle but absolutely none of them are people that won’t go into a grocery store (masked). i do have friends that live in towns with lower vax rates and no mask mandates. They go into stores wearing a mask at off hours when the store isn’t crowded.

         1. Not going into the grocery is less about me believing that the objective risk is high, and more about me not seeing any reason to go into a store -curbside pickup is free and much more convenient even if there were no pandemic. Everything is a risk-benefit analysis, and we choose to use our risk capital on things that give us more value, like daycare, seeing vaxxed family and friends and travel. If I’m going to get Covid, I want it to be while doing something that adds value and joy to my life, which the grocery store does not. :)

         2. As anecdata the other way, I’m “the reckless one” in my (admittedly cautious) friend group because we flew with our unvaxxed (too young to be eligible) kids several times in 2021 and have continued outdoor dining and outdoor and even some indoor kid activities even though the Delta surge, and I haven’t been in a grocery store since March 2020. I know a lot of people who exclusively use curbside or delivery services now. I don’t think it’s that weird.

   3. I feel that hospital people I know are not panicking at this and I take my cues from them (one person works in anesthesia, so around open unmasked mouths for the past 20 years). If he’s not in a panic, I’m not in a panic. If he’s changing habits, I’m changing habits. He’s not in a panic or changing habits. Which is a relief to see from people who really need to walk the right walk.

      A high school friend who is actually in infectious disease management was on NPR last week, also not freaking out and pointing out how far we’ve come from March 2020.

      OTOH, a local NP and her surgeon husband are demanding that we drop masking in schools as it is “harmful”. Lady, you’re not going to get that past your employer or patients, so pls just knock it off. when it comes to my kids and school. I’m guessing she had a nanny for when schools shut down for a year, so she really has no skin in the game I’m playing.

      1. I think this one really depends on where you live. There are a number of states that are at full hospital capacity now, when they’re still mostly dealing with delta. Those places are begging people to get vaccinated and to do everything they can to avoid needing hospital care over the next few months. My family lives in one of those states and several of them have been dealing with non-Covid illnesses and might need hospital care, so that’s a little scary.

         I’m still going grocery shopping in person, but only every two or three weeks, and going to various kinds of doctors appointments (I have 5 in the next month, including the dentist and PT). That’s it for now, other than solo outdoor activities. We order everything else online, WFH, and aren’t traveling (we moved right before the pandemic, so we don’t have a lot of local friends). Live in a state with a mask mandate and currently low cases, though they’re increasing.

         1. I feel like we have known what to do since spring 2020 (Erin Brommage article) and that’s not extreme or difficult, and now we have shots (again, not hard). I am the person who goes to the grocery store multiple times a week b/c I need a quartermaster at home badly. Kids wear masks in school except when they eat. I am not sure what else to do except never leave the house (unlikely, but we had to quarantine once and could do so again if needed).

      2. My SO is a doctor, and looking at the doctors as a barometer is incredibly bad strategy. The closer they have been to treating COVID patients since Feb 2020, the more they are totally inured to COVID and do not have any good ability to do accurate risk benefit assessments that are remotely in line with public health guidance. This is happening / being reinforced by leadership behavior all the way up at the major academic hospitals in liberal coastal city we live in.

         1. Oh, I definitely know some doctors who are idiots. But I’m not looking to them or them generally. More like the people I’ve known for years who encounter a lot of actual exposure in their jobs and need to manage that. My ICU nurse friends are fried and were done some time ago and yet they are miraculously still trucking.

   4. are you high risk? If not, I would approach this as “if I get COVID, i’m triple vaccinated.” I wouldn’t be reckless but at the same time, we are rounding out the second full year of this. if I were in your non-christmas celebrating NOVA shoes, I’d get myself to a beachside location and sit at the beach and dine outdoors far away from everyone else for two full weeks.

      1. Yes, this. I’m in the U.K. where Omicron is everywhere and if I didn’t have travel plans later this week I’d be much more relaxed about it. I’m not worried about getting sick, I’m worried about getting stuck somewhere.

   5. I keep hearing about friends of friends who have tested positive. Most are vaccinated and mildly ill, but it’s very disruptive to everyday life when you test positive, even if you’re not that sick.

      A couple of breakthrough cases in my extended circle have resulted in serious illness, though, and that makes me even more cautious.

      I’m more concerned about long Covid at this point but still concerned enough to change my behavior, again. I have rheumatoid arthritis and I take Humira, which is an immunosuppressant of sorts. I think I’m back to grocery delivery soon.

      I feel terrible for my college freshman son, who has been doing online learning for a couple of years (high school + first semester of college) with no end in sight. He lives on campus but goes to class online, which is very hard for him and his learning style.

   6. It doesn’t sound to me like you need to change much since you are barely in contact with the outside world.
      I am taking some additional precautions myself, as I have been living a near pre-pandemic life but wearing a mask when in stores, at the theatre, in restrooms, and interacting with people at work. I am ordering some more protective masks and making my home and home office more functional. I had expected to just be back in the office most days come January, and I have a lot of in-person crowded depositions, hearings, and mediations scheduled in January, so I guess we will see if that changes. I expect I won’t be going inside bars much in early 2022. I already don’t eat in restaurants or travel much, but that is more a lifestyle issue than a Covid issue, so I guess that will just continue.
      I am in the SEUS, not in NYC, Michigan, or another spot up where things keep getting way out of control.

   7. View from a non-clinical hospital worker here: Hospitals are hurting, not necessarily due to omicron. We’re nearly at the two year point on the pandemic, and hospitals are experiencing major staffing shortages due to burnout and budget cuts. If there’s a surge of hospitalizations (which tends to lag the case surge by 2-3 weeks), it will be a disaster. Currently patients are backed up in our ED because there aren’t enough nurses to move them through efficiently.

      Because of that, and with an eye on the exploding case count, my husband and I are being pretty strict now. We canceled plans this weekend for a party in CT with vaccinated (and mostly boosted) friends, and to see old friends from out of state visiting NYC. If we were to test positive, we would both probably be fine. But we want to do our part to stop the spread.

      1. I’d be more worried about being in an ER situation where they are so backlogged that I’m critically sick but overlooked b/c they are overwhelmed. I don’t think I’d go to the ER with COVID but I worry for those having cardiac events and strokes or just ambiguous things that are actually quite serious. Everything else is now at risk.

         1. That’s exactly it, Anon @4:11. If EDs & hospitals are overwhelmed, it hurts everyone, not just covid patients.

            1. Cannot stress this enough. After my dad had the stroke last December, he got care immediately but we suffered immensely because we could never get information from the hospital. It was unbelievably stressful to go days without being able to reach someone, no idea what was going on. And it was because they were completely full up of COVID patients. Hospitals being full, regardless of who, is hellishly bad for everyone.

            2. +1 A loved one had an “elective” surgery cancelled because of COVID overload and lost her vision because of it.

            3. Yep my dad has thyroid cancer and just had a surgery scheduled for January canceled with no idea when they can reschedule, because even once hospitals clear out after the Covid wave there will be higher priority patients than him to reschedule. To be fair, this is partly his fault (he was diagnosed in spring, had one surgery in June and has been dragging his feet a little bit about having the second), but many people are impacted by this beyond the people who actually need hospital treatment for the virus.

   8. I’m triple vaccinated now, and have been living normally since I was originally fully vaccinated. I eat indoors, grocery shop, etc. so my starting place is different from you. I have had quite a few “;exposures” and never once gotten Covid so I’m pretty confident the vaccines work. With omicron, the “new” thing I’m doing is testing right before going to any events (like within the hour) just in case I pick up a breakthrough so I don’t spread it on. And masking per local policy, but that’s not new.

      1. Same. Since I was fully vaccinated, I’ve lived life fairly normally. I wear a mask if the store/location requires it, but otherwise don’t. I dine indoors occasionally, although we’re not eating out much given that we have a pack of small kids. We go to church, the occasional museum, and some stores although I hate shopping and prefer ordering. Our older children still wear masks indoors although they’re now fully vaxxed so we’ll drop some of that. We’re a purple city in a red state; case rates are low here and we have plenty of hospital capacity.

         I got breakthrough Covid from my preschooler a month back and it was extremely mild. I think an omicron infection is possible but unlikely for me and the toddler given that I’m triple vaxxed + natural antibodies and he has recent natural antibodies. That being said, I know it may happen. We may go back to making more depending on how things go. But I’m not making any special omicron preparations.

   9. I am wearing a KN95 when previously I had been wearing cloth masks, but otherwise not modifying my behavior.

      We weren’t indoor dining yet, though, anyway.

   10. I look at this in several ways:

       I look at hospital and particularly ICU capacity. ICUs, generally and pre-pandemic, were meant to run very lean. No need to have ICU staff there, 24/7/365 with 20% open beds. So there is not much excess capacity generally – maybe less than 10%. In my state – in Washington state – and Oregon, ICUs are almost maxed out. My daughter is an ICU nurse in Washington state outside of Portland, as a travel contract nurse getting $5000 per week, because they are short-staffed like most hospitals. And they had zero ICU beds last shift. A covid patient died, then they had one bed for about a half-hour then that bed was taken by a patient who had coded in the ER. This article from last week said that there were a TOTAL of 57 open ICU beds in the entire state of Oregon. https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/northwest/oregon-health-officials-warn-about-nearing-hospital-capacity/ I don’t want to be hospitalized with covid. I’m vaxxed and boosted but have an underlying condition – lymphoma – that makes me more susceptible to severe covid. Being in the hospital right now would be very frightening. So I am not going to parties, not eating indoors and only seeing a few close, vaxxed family members.

       Risk factors for those who get breakthrough covid are high blood pressure, diabetes, kidney disease, COPD/asthma, cancer and, unfortunately, obesity. There are many people ignoring their own risk because they are obese and the media is ignoring that because it’s considered rude or not PC to list obesity as a huge risk factor for hospitalization/death. My daughter says she’s almost never had a normal weight patient with covid die – over 18 months, she’s seen over 100 deaths in her patients – unless they are age 65+ or have other comorbid conditions like COPD.

       But for normal fully vaxxed + boosted adults, no I wouldn’t worry. Omicron is less deadly and there are less hospitalizations from it that original or Delta strains. Vaxxed and boosted people, in general, do not need to be as cautious as not to leave their homes – no need to be a hermit. The unvaxxed need to be cautious and should be locked down but it won’t happen.

       So if I was single and fully vaxxed as you are, no kids, I would not hibernate. For those with young kids in the house or immunocompromised family members, hibernation is a good idea.

   11. My behavior changed in a pretty big way. I have stage 2 colon cancer and while it didn’t go to the lymph nodes, the tumor was very aggressive. 5 year survivability is 90 percent. Chemo could improve that about 2-3 percent but some risk of permanent neuropathy with one of the drugs. One oncologist told me to just monitor and not do chemo. The second opinion oncologist told me to start chemo regardless. I was planning to listen to the one that said do the chemo and am now opting out. It doesn’t seem like the right time now to lower my immune system with already good odds like that. (I’ll still be monitored heavily regardless.) It also didn’t help that when I went in to get an iron infusion recently, a lot of the staff weren’t wearing masks–around freaking cancer patients. Wtactualf. Another big behavior change is that I am not seeing my mom this Christmas. I’m recently out of the hospital from having that part of my colon removed and my husband is immune suppressed thanks to taking Humira for Crohn’s. My 80- year old mom is triple vaxxed and thinks she is very cautious, but she is going to the gym and working out without a mask, eating at restaurants indoors with her friends sometimes, taking friends to their doc visits and waiting around in doc offices, and visiting with friends in their homes unmasked. Rates in her area are so bad that the county declared a “disaster” to get extra funds. I’m Chicago suburbs (about an hour from her) and our hospitals just can’t keep up. My surgery was a 6 week wait because colon cancer surgery is “elective”and none of the three major health systems could get me in sooner. I’m so tired of no one realizing how bad it really is and this is even before Omicron hits.

       1. Thinking of you. Not doing chemo does not make it any less cancer or any less horrible.

       2. I wish you a long chemo-free period with no advance of the cancer. Hang in there.

       3. The way some people are living normal life while claiming to be uber cautious is hilarious(ly) sad. We have relatives who describe themselves that way, yet they went to a 200 person indoor wedding around the height of the fall surge. In what world is that “very cautious”!? Like…do what you want, I really don’t care as long as you’re honest about it so I can choose whether or not my unvaxxed kid can have contact with you. But at least describe yourselves honestly. You’re not “very cautious.”

       4. Wow I cannot believe that colon cancer surgery is considered elective. I mean I knew that “elective” wasn’t really “elective” but come on, it’s cancer!

          Good luck Anon!

          1. Pretty much all planned surgery is elective.

   12. We are all going to get it. Live your life. Get vaccinated and hope for the best.

       1. We’re all going to get it, but if we all get it at the same time our healthcare system will collapse. My state’s hospitals are at surge capacity – fewer available bed than at any previous point in the pandemic – and we’re one of the only US states that doesn’t (yet) have Omicron. Keep in mind that “bed” doesn’t mean a physical bed. It means a physical bed and a doctor and nurse to staff it. We have far fewer healthcare workers than we did in March 2020 due to burnout.

   13. I have a condition that makes breakthrough infections potentially a big deal (and some research that came out just a week or so ago underscored this). So the increased risk of breakthrough has put me back into isolation for now. I would love to learn that Omicron breakthrough outcomes are better than Delta, but it’s just way too soon to know.

   14. Not changing my conduct at all. I am vaxxed and boosted, I WFH and live alone (so no unvaxxed kids or immunocompomised loved ones). I am traveling by plane this week (double masking) and will have a couple dinners out, but I have been doing indoor drinking and dining for months now. Considering the mild impact omicron seems to be having on those fully vaxxed, I am not particularly concerned about its impact on me, and if I did catch it, it would be pretty easy for me to lock down and deal with whatever quarantine I needed to do.

   15. We are in a purple area with not the highest vax rate and heavy case transmission of mostly Delta cases and are continuing to be cautious. I just did a big shop to get us through a week+, and we won’t be doing any social events except online. We will be snowshoeing, etc., so we don’t die of boredom. Once Omicron takes over, if it turns out to be long term actually milder, we’ll reassess. However, we don’t yet have long Covid data for it, so will continue to be careful until we know a lot more.

       1. The latest evidence suggests it’s not intrinsically milder. It’s appearing milder because breakthrough infections and reinfections tend to be much milder than first infections in the immunologically naive. Same reason people thought Delta was milder than Alpha even though it turned out to be more severe- a virus blazing through a 70% vaxxed and 20%+ previously infected population can easily be more severe yet look milder than one going though an immunologically naive population. Pediatric ICUs in the US are starting to see big increases in admissions. I wouldn’t be surprised if Omicron is actually intrinsically more severe than Delta.

2. Anyone else having trouble printing a return label from Amazon? I would like to think I am a reasonably with it person but I just spent 25 min. trying to figure this out online and I cant. Everything is a “here’s a QR code, bring to –” and I don’t want to. I want to just give it to my UPS person (which is literally how I have amazoned forever). Is this something I just can’t do now or are they just being tricky for the holidays? (Yes, it’s one more reason to quit amazon, thanks).

   1. There’s an option to print a label — but I would recommend you to use their Chat function. They’re pretty quick and efficient, and will just email the label to you.

   2. Some products can only be returned for free if you take it to x place. It is super annoying. The printable label is not always available.

      1. I think that’s the case here. It’s beyond annoying. There is 100 percent not an option online. I am trying to get customer service to send me one anyway but it’s so annoying I am just going to stop using amazon soon. the only thing going for it is that it’s easy and if that’s not the case…

   3. Sometimes they take away the option to print a label, but if you use the chat function and ask you can still get a label emailed to you.

   4. Depending on the reason for return they give you more or less “return for free” options. Try selecting a different reason (like ‘doesn’t fit’ instead of ‘no longer needed’) and see if it gives you a label.

3. I love that there’s a pet-friendly version of this subscription. So many plants people gifted us over the years had to be given away because they aren’t safe for our cats.

   1. None of our plants are safe FROM our cats. I would love it if someone could invent that plant.

      1. Cactus?

      2. My only luck in this genre has been air plants, when suspended from the ceiling or tucked into a wall sconce.

   2. +1 I appreciate the sentiment when people buy me plants but inevitably the gifter always notices I didn’t keep it and asks why then gets salty when I tell them I’m not comfortable keeping something dangerous to my cat.

      1. It was particularly bad this summer when my dad died, because it’s the custom (maybe just locally?) to give a peace lily. Lilies are super toxic, and we got close to a dozen of them. I couldn’t stomach just throwing a potted plant for family remembrance in the trash, so I had to get creative on Freecycle.

   3. I have never had any of my cats pay the slightest attention to houseplants but omg the Christmas tree.

      1. I’m so jealous. My plant killer will grimace at the taste of chives, yet still make a point of killing them.

      2. Mine like to try to eat them, knock them over and break the pot, then throw up whatever they ate. It’s a trifecta of destruction. We never had a christmas tree climber until this year – our new kitten treats the tree as his own personal lair. He’s mostly content to pull off the lights though.

      3. The year before we learned not to put tinsel on the tree with cats in the hosue was a year spent pulling poop-covered tinsel out of our cats’ butts.

   4. Yes, I agree with all the comments below! I always feel like a shrew when beautiful flower arrangements and plants stay on our front porch and I don’t really even enjoy them, but I can’t bring them inside because my cat has eaten lilies before and ended up hospitalized and I’m not doing that again ever.

4. $33 for a nondescript 4 inch house plant seems crazy expensive to me, but I guess you’re paying for the experience.

   1. I just bought the Shaker and Spoon subscription for 1 month for a friend.
      It’s $50 for the recipes and ingredients – not alcohol – for 3 cocktails. Which is a lot, but its more the chance to try a variety of new ingredients you wouldn’t have hanging around and its a small amount of each thing.
      So basically paying for a framework to make new cocktails, and a guide to an activity that seems fun.

      1. That club has a devoted fan base, so there must be something to the experience of it for a certain group.

   2. and the delivery, I assume. These plants are like $10 max at local garden centers.

   3. for a while I had a plant sub from the Sill and it was about $40/mo but I also got a fancy ceramic pot and free shipping, so it was worth it. For $33 and they only send a grow pot… cheaper just to go to a local nursery.

5. Re: this morning’s Christmas Dinner/Oldest Daughter thread

   1) I am not surprised to have found my tribe on a site for high achieving chicks, just saying

   2) for those of who have watched Get Back, raise your hand if you 110% related to Paul trying to organize the chaos at Twickenham and then having everyone get mad at him. *raises hand*

   1. Yep. I’ve given up thinking I can do anything right for all of my family for the holiday. Right now I’m supposed to be acting as a go between for my mom and younger sister and I’m already over it.

   2. Lol, I’m the anon who 100% called that out.

      I think that Oldest Daughter defines me more than any other title in my life. More than wife or boss or parent or fried. I am the person who is going to make sure that Things Get Done. I’ve spent lots of time and therapy (and $ on therapy) to basically learn that I shouldn’t feel about not doing a better job of X when I was literally a child. On realizing that it’s not my responsibility if people are unhappy.

      I’m now the person who everything falls to. I’m also the one with the bone crushing job and the small kids and just generally a lot going on, but I’m also going to make sure that people feel welcomed and that there is something for everyone to eat and a place of where to go on the holidays.

      I’m also the one who at work has a reputation for ‘getting it over the finish line’ and ‘sorting it out’ and ‘figuring it out without a clear path forward’. And those things are great, but also… exhausting.

      Shout out to all the oldest daughters (and that includes the ones who aren’t chronologically oldest but have been given that role) who are also doing this.

      1. I am still the Things Get Done sibling. How do I get out of this? (Only halfway kidding because every time I let it slide and Things do not Get Done, all the backlash makes me think I should have just done it in the first place)

         1. At a certain point, you have to be ok with the blowback and also not critical of whatever does get done by other people. I’m not saying either would apply to you, but these are the strategies I’ve had to develop.

      2. Ugh, all of this. At least work recognizes and compensates me for it!

      3. I am chronologically the second daughter, but my older sister is such a fork-up that I was basically the oldest daughter. Not being unnecessarily rude – we are talking failing out of college with a GPA that was below a 1.0, rehab, multiple car wrecks, cocaine, pot, job hopping, multiple firings, the works.

         Was, past tense. I’m done setting myself on fire to keep anyone warm. Life is better on the other side.

   3. I’m 56 and my next younger sibling is 54. Thanksgiving is the airing of grievances where I am and have always been too bossy yet simultaneously responsible for not preventing my two-years-younger sibling from getting into all the trouble they got into as a kid.

   4. I’m an oldest daughter who identifies with all these experiences except being expected to feed everyone. I have never liked cooking, everyone knows I don’t really do it, and I won’t come up with anything great if I do have to cook. I know y’all can’t go back in time to become bad cooks, but maybe if your own oldest daughters express no interest in learning, let it go? I’m thanking you on their future behalf! One less thing…which is a huge thing.

      1. That’s interesting. My kids are young adults. They are girl, boy, in that order. My daughter has tons of oldest daughter characteristics but does not cook. My son cooks but is so messy I can’t imagine him ever having anyone over. Maybe someday their deal will be he comes over and cooks in her kitchen and she hosts? (She’s just in her first grownup apartment now but loooves making it look nice and welcoming.)

      2. Op from the other thread. I feel so seen-in a good way. Part of it is that I love to cook, but not for a critical crowd with a hundred food issue, more like with my husband watching the kids while drinking wine on a Sunday afternoon. My dad is the big cook in the family so it’s a bonding thing with him too.

         I Just got off the phone with the vegan cousins- they’ll get back to me on if they can bring something. I thought: this is a double second child family- it’s Monday! What are you waiting for?! I’m going to make a note to talk to my therapist about this. You all really made my day.

         1. They’ll get back to you? OMG murrrrrder

            1. Seriously!! Well you can “get back to” them about whether they’re invited at all when they get back to you about bringing something!! What even…

            2. Ehh they just moved and she’s very sad her family got covid so they can’t go to them. There’s probably some resentment that I’m hosting but not getting them food. I think she’d like us all to just eat vegan but I’m not into it. It’s a whole thing because her daughter gets upset that she has to eat differently than the other kids. I get annoyed because they’ll cave and let her have non vegan ice cream sometimes but won’t let her have non-vegan Mac and cheese. It’s just a really elaborate lifestyle choice that the rest of us never agreed to so I don’t totally understand why they don’t just bring their own stuff.

   5. Haha, I came out of watching Get Back with so much sympathy and admiration for Paul. I’m also an oldest daughter, though luckily my little brothers are now reasonably responsible as adults. The youngest is the only one who lives in the same state as my parents, so he’s really the one who does the most for them, though luckily they haven’t needed too much care yet. Honestly, reading this site has made me incredibly grateful that all of the men in my life (dad, brothers, husband) are responsible adults and we’re all more or less on the same page with Covid, with the differences mostly just coming down to our different work situations and health issues.

   6. I guess I am the exception that proves the rule? My older sister dissolves into tears at being asked to do the slightest thing for someone else, especially on a deadline, and crumbles under the slightest bit of pressure (The Streeeesss!). She is the last person anyone would ask to plan or execute anything. She is five years my senior and it used to really get under my skin when my mother left us alone under the guise that she was babysitting me when everyone knew I was truly in charge, even of preparing meals, and if there was an emergency, I was the only chance we had to get out of it. She still thinks she is entitled to some preference as the “oldest daughter”, though.

      1. Interesting. I’m an oldest daughter with a BFF who is a middle sister. My friend is always talking about her older sister like “you know, that messed-up oldest child thing.” By which she means kind of a Jan Brady. Which is so weird to me as my middle sister is textbook Jan Brady – cannot get enough attention so therefore everything in the world is about her and how it affects her.

         I know it’s different in every family, and so much depends on how your parents raised you. And having two kids of my own, I realize how much of their personalities my own kids were born with. So yes, of course there are exceptions!

   7. Meeeeee, I just don’t understand how I’m the only adult in the room, always. I’m the one with a house, career, education etc, but the failure-to-launch is quick to tell me how hard not achieving anything is.

      1. Haha. I remember my third year at law school my older cousin was explaining how he failed out of another college. He said “well how many people actually graduate in four years anyway?” I said “at this table? Just me. But it’s more in real life, I promise.” Also my husband’s stepdad couldn’t retire because there was a six month gap between his final paycheck and his very generous pension. He said “who would have months of living expenses just saved?” My husband said, “Me, anonymous, every solvent adult with a long term job, how do you NOT have this?” I swear the problem is that when everyone is like this, everyone is like this.

         1. Yep, everyone is like this! I recently got a mortgage and my advisor was absolutely baffled I had savings, no cc debt, no student loans, etc. It was so sad that basic financial literacy is shocking to a mortgage advisor….

   8. I 100% relate to Paul trying to organize the chaos at Twickenham. I love him even more after having seen Get Back.

6. Any suggestions for wide width, knee height boots that have a normal calf width? I posted too late this morning.

   1. I would look for high quality leather boots rather than wide widths (so not something marked “genuine leather” like a lot of mall brands). Most brands use the same exact sole for wide widths as they do with regular, the only difference is that they make the uppers a little wider. Nice leather will at least stretch appropriately.

7. Covid is destroying my marriage or more like how DH and i deal with our families. His parents and brother are supposed to come visit on Friday. They live flying distance away. We said you must be two weeks post booster, no indoor unmasked activities the week before your visit, pcr test a few days prior and rapid test morning of flight (this last one was added due to
   Omicron). We have two unvaccinated kids at home. I just found out his 20 something brother spent the weekend away at a ski house with friends and is just getting boosted now. And if we now don’t let them come it’s my fault and DH ends up angry at me bc he has issues ever being mad at his parents. Why can’t instead he be mad at his brother who made the choice he’d rather ski with friends than visit us? I understand that it’s fun to go skiing with friends and if that’s his preference that’s fine (note we don’t celebrate Christmas so this has nothing to do with a Christmas celebration). I also understand everyone might not agree with our precautions, but it’s our house and our kids, and if they want to comply and come great and if they don’t, that’s fine too. I do actually have a decent relationship with my in-laws but we have very different risk tolerances

   1. I feel this so hard. It often seems like everyone on this page is completely in sync with their spouses on acceptable COVID risks except for me. I don’t have answers but I am dealing with similar disagreements within my marriage and it is so frustrating.

      1. It’s not just you, I promise. My spouse’s mental health has taken a huge noise dive from pandemic stress, to the point where he now refuses vaccination and seems to believe all vaccinated people will be dead in 5 years. I have no idea what the future holds for us.

         1. Oh, dear. My sympathies.

      2. I almost got divorced before vaccines were available to adults. My husband (who is lower risk health-wise than I am) was generally being more cautious than me, but also in a way that felt very hypocritical to me. The things we wanted to do weren’t the same – it wasn’t like he was doing outdoor dining and telling me I couldn’t do outdoor dining. But he was finding ways to justify all the (relatively low risk) activities *he* cared about, while arguing that all the relatively low risk activities I cared about were way too risky. It was really infuriating and we fought so, so much. Fortunately he has relaxed since adults got vaccinated and now I am actually more worried than him about our unvaxxed kid. But 2020 was a VERY bad year for our marriage.

   2. Can just the parents come? Or do they all live together?

      Do words have meanings any more? Because they knew the conditions and yet they omitted saying “and I will come, knowing your conditions, and yet ignoring them and leaving you on your own to find that out and what my conditions actually are.”

      1. just the parents can come but they will likely be pissed at me potentially making for a very uncomfortable visit. His parents also probably knew he was going skiing (i found out via social media) and so I’m also mad that they didn’t say anything. I realize we might all very well get omicron anyway so the joke might be on me but I’m not quite willing to throw up my hands and i just feel very disrespected. My in-laws are wonderful with my kids when they are here and basically the only people who can really ever give us a break from parenting

   3. I’m sorry. I don’t have great advice but I am on your side.

   4. I’d be frustrated too, but if the brother presents two negative test results, it’s highly unlikely he is going to bring Covid into your house even if his behavior was not as agreed.

      1. This. I am not sure why you needed the very strict “no unmasked activities for a week before” and “two weeks post booster” rules given the testing regimen. I’m not sure the booster waiting period gives much extra protection from spread.

   5. With the caveat that your original ask is pretty reasonable (honestly more than I would try to impose, but I see where you’re coming from), since everyone is vaccinated, I’d probably lighten my stance if I were you. Have them all take rapid tests right before coming over – that’s really the key these days. Omicron spreads faster, so there’s not a ton of value in your PCR requirement or even your quarantine requirement (exposure could happen while traveling to you), and the booster will start kicking in, too, even if it’s not all the way there/perfect. The key is that they don’t have Covid, at the end of the day. I’d demand rapid at home tests within an hour of arrival.

   6. I fully understand your frustration but if brother in law does a PCR test before flight and a rapid test morning of, and maybe you throw in a rapid test upon arrival, is that not sufficient? I get having rules and all but if he’s willing to compensate in other ways, maybe you let this slide for the sake of marital/family harmony? If you’re genuinely worried about this past weekend, the odds are pretty strong that you will know if your BIL picked up something by Friday since the science seems to suggest that this latest wave is much faster to manifest itself. I understand nothing is 100 percent but your original plan wasn’t 100 percent either and some of your conditions are not based on the most recent science (which is fine! but that’s the problem with imposing rules that are not the least restrictive means necessary).

      Also, to the anon @ 3:43 I think a lot of people have issues over this that may just be less obvious.

      1. Yes the initial requirements were put into place when the flights were initially booked and i realize don’t exactly match the most recent science which is why we added in the rapid test given the emergence of omicron. I also realize that given they have to fly here there is always some risk. But now how do i trust he isn’t doing indoor dining this week or that he doesn’t go to a bar etc?

         1. I really think you’re trying to control too much. The 2-shot is still effective against delta and omicron is fast spreading. So, if he’s eating out odds are low for a delta breakthrough and a test right before coming over will likely catch omicron (and delta if the exposure happens now). You can’t manage other people down to zero risk, and it’s there anyway just through getting to you.

            1. Still, though, the time to discuss is when you make the plans. You don’t make plans and then decide unilaterally that you’re changing the deal. Not just for this, but for anything. Trust, once broken, is hard to mend. What if you had said “I am only comfortable having s** in a committed relationship and with protection,” and then other person said yes but did neither without telling you?

               It was an invitation, not a summons, and if the terms were too onerous, the brother just should have declined. You are NTA.

            2. 4:31 here, oh I agree OP isn’t the AH! There’s just more to balance including marital harmony. Given that this involves her husband, too, I’d default to what the key thing here (and rapid home testing right before gathering is my answer to that) and dig in on that line, which is both reasonable and addresses the real issue (is a covid + person in the house). It’s hard not to feel disrespected and like your husband isn’t taking your side, so I don’t fault OP for how she’s thinking. Just offering the most practical solution that solves the problem.

      2. +1. I’m one of the very cautious people who posted in the thread above,but I’d still be okay with this. If he has negative tests 4 and 5 days post exposure, which should be the day he arrives, the odds are low enough that I’d go along with it for the sake of family relationships. That said, I’m not seeing family this Christmas because everyone is plane flights away and there are multiple vulnerable people in my family, so I do think you’re justified in your feelings, it’s just that this would be a reasonable compromise.

   7. Can you postpone the trip to January? MIL won’t get boostered and we’re laying down the law that she can’t come on her flight this Thursday from the deeeeeep south to a northeast current and climbing hotspot. Unlike you, as long as the needle is in her arm we’re ok with her coming (not looking to argue that and no judgment to you with that comment – your house / your rules). MIL is a … difficult woman… She was recently suddenly widowed and DH similarly just doesn’t want to be mad at her since it’s never remotely productive (I agree) but his workaround is an unapologetic “let’s reschedule” and he’s paying for the incremental whatever dollars it costs to make all future flights cancellable tickets.

      Stick to your guns and what makes you comfortable. I told my husband to blame it on me, which I don’t think he did fully but I really couldn’t care any less if he did. It’s not perfect, but I’m done caving to this woman. Good luck.

   8. I’m on your side too. We asked my SIL and BIL to isolate before flying to visit us at Thanksgiving and test right before (lathe flight (we have an unvaxxed kid). They ended up getting tested a full six days before they were flying to us, and doing lots of stuff in the intervening days. The first test was obviously worthless, so we asked them to take a rapid test at our house before unmasking. We supplied the rapid test, so zero cost to them. They blew a gasket and threatened not to come, and then my DH got sad and told them they could come even without the rapid test. Reasonable people can disagree on precautions, I get that, but DH fully agreed that we *should* test them to protect our kid and it was only after they got mad and threatened not to come that he backed down. Fortunately no one fell sick but I was pretty p!seed at him (and them – how hard is it to take a free rapid test that barely tickles your nose?)

      1. I’d be livid at your SIL and BIL and your DH

   9. I am pretty COVID-cautious and would feel risk-wise okay with negative tests as he arrived if you could trust him to not add any additional exposure while he (potentially) incubated. But I would be so pissed at him for lying to me I wouldn’t want him in my house regardless, so it’d be a moot point.

   10. I’m frustrated at the advice to OP, who established boundaries clearly and early on, that now she’s the one who needs to suck it up because someone else refused to respect her boundaries.

       1. Well, you can be right and lose things that matter more.

          1. Like what? What does she lose? A brother in law who does not give a F about anyone but himself? Good riddance.

             1. You think that’s the only relationship that would be affected if OP told her BIL to f off?

                People who think they’re sticking to their “boundaries” and really being completely rigid are just as bad as the ones who can’t put up boundaries in the first place.

             2. Hear Hear, Anon @ 6:59

          2. Oh, man, there are so many people who could really use a tattoo of this on their forearm as a reminder (or repeated epiphany).

       2. +1.

   11. Your rigidity is destroying your marriage. Ask yourself why everyone has to live by your rules. Why are you the boss. You are just one hyper cautious opinion.

       1. They are coming to her house, for gods’ sake. Of course she gets to have rules in her own home!

          1. It’s also her husband’s home. And she’s being very rigid and clinging to outdated ideas.

             1. Outdated ideas–you mean like the one about kids not being able to catch covid? Sorry, but Team OP all the way on this one. (And husband seemingly supported this stance at the outset as well–he isn’t the one that changed the rules midstream here.)

       2. Because they have 2 unvaccinated kids!

          OP, I’m with you; while I think testing would be sufficient for me, the fact that he violated what he previously agreed to would make him untrustworthy and make me suspicious of what else he’s doing.

          1. Agreed. I’m very cautious and in terms of mitigating risk (with the understanding we can’t eliminate it but it can get it much closer to zero than doing nothing would), I think PCR a day or two before and rapid testing at the door is sufficient. But I understand you being upset at him going back on what he said he’d do.

          2. But who cares what he does? If he tests positive then he doesn’t go over. If he’s negative then he does. Why try to control everything else? If he really cares, he’ll stay home but he might not care if he misses this event.

             1. This is the part I don’t get. And that’s why it’s bad for your relationship with your family (husband and in laws). BIL may be an irresponsible d*ck, but OP doesn’t seem to really want to find a solution, which is what navigating these family issues requires. And look, I have little kids too but let’s be honest that the risk to them from all this is not the same as to an immunocompromised grandma. And maybe, just maybe, they actually benefit from having time with their extended family too, such that the risk from an irresponsible BIL having Covid – despite vaccine, booster with just a few days, and multiple negative tests – is a reasonable risk to take?

       3. Because in a debate about safety, the most cautious person should always win. Her husband and his family want to give her kids COVID.

          1. Except it isn’t. If it was about safety, then a test before getting together would be sufficient. You can throw caution to the wind and not get Covid, and you can hunker in a bunker and pick it up. OP isn’t interested in safety, she’s interested in being in control.

   12. Oh my gosh, the risk tolerances thing is real! I’m going to stay with my parents for 10 days over Christmas (I’m a single 20-something, I haven’t yet had an excuse to spend it away from them so I’m there by default). I asked them to reconsider some of the plans that were made prior to Omicron… and they are still booking indoor restaurant meals even after that conversation. Infuriating!

8. Here is your daily reminder than IUDs (even when they remain properly placed) are not 100% effective against pregnancy. I know with near certainty when I got pregnant, because we were apart and then camped together, and that we also used the barrier method (not sure if that will get me put in moderation). Surprise pregnancy!

   1. actually going to move this to moms thread, sorry!

      1. Nothing wrong with this in the regular thread.

      2. No. This is perfect here, where all the people who don’t want to be moms read.

         1. Excellent point!

   2. Not IUD but barrier method – meet my son. No user error as far as we can tell, just fell in that 99th percentile.

      He’s wonderful, just 6-12 months older than planned.

   3. Well that’s terrifying, given that my doctor told me the IUS (the hormonal IUD) is more effective than sterilisation.

      1. I have friends who have a baby conceived after a vasectomy. They had tested the man’s sperm at 3 months post-op and given them the all clear, but somehow they made a mistake (the husband is definitely the baby’s father – after the pregnancy they re-tested his sperm and oops, actually still fertile!). The wife had previously had an infertility diagnosis of her own too. The whole thing was so insane.
         People think I’m crazy that my husband is snipped and we still use condoms but this is why!! Because someone has to be that 1 in a million and I don’t want it to be me.

         1. My husband is snipped and so am I. His samples never 100% cleared. They said they could go back in on him but he complained so much the first time, I just stepped up.

      2. I mean, your doctor’s right. My midwife literally gasped and called the manufacturer when she realized that the IUD had remained properly placed. Apparently most IUD pregnancies happen because people don’t check their strings to make sure it’s properly placed, and the IUD has shifted or become embedded.

         Check your strings! But here, I did, and here I am…

9. I need to put some more small things on my wish list.

   For those of you who like fine tip or ultra fine tip pens, which are your favorite?

   1. I love how many colors Le Pen come in. I also have some Stabilo ones from living in Germany literally 15 years ago that are still working.

   2. Muji

   3. Staedtler triplus in all the colours.

   4. Oh, I could rave about fine-tip writing instruments all day. I spend way too much money on JetPens.

      Pens:

      .18 mm : Uni-Ball Signo Bit
      .25 mm, .30 mm, and .40 mm : Pentel Slicci or Pilot Hi-Tec-C
      .50 mm : Pilot Precise

      Mechanical Pencil:

      Uni Kuru Toga .50 mm is the best. It rotates the lead as you write, so you never get a harsh diagonal point that tears the paper.

      1. OOH, I don’t use mechanical pencils at all because of the paper tearing….

   5. Parker jotters, with replacement “Quinck” fine tips.

10. My in laws have finally made it to the US after not being able to see the family for over 2 years, and have been staying with us for the past few weeks. I’m glad that my husband has been able to spend time with his parents as they are aging and may not have many good years left. However, my husband is leaving for a week long business trip soon. Is it unreasonable that I don’t want his parents to stay here alone with me while he is gone? They could potentially go live with his sister, but her house is more crowded as she has 2 kids and not enough rooms for everyone while we have a spare bedroom (no kids yet). I feel a lot of guilt as a bad DIL since we are Southeast Asian.

    1. Not unreasonable but likely regardless. Can your husband get out of his trip? I’d be surprised if there’s a lot of pushback with omicron going on.

    2. Not unreasonable at all. If you don’t enforce boundaries now it will never get better

    3. Have you ever been with them alone for an extended period before? You might find it valuable to your relationship with them to have some time without your husband there. But I totally understand why your instinct is to want them.to.saty elsewhere and I don’t think it is “unreasonable.” If you land here, it would be ideal for SIL to make the request id you can arrange that.

    4. I think most of us could not even imagine our spouse leaving on a trip while his parents are staying in our homes. That’s way beyond the pale. Husband should absolutely not be going on a trip and leaving you stuck with them. If he must go, then it’s on him to suggest that now would be a great time for them to get closer with their grandkids at his sister’s house.

       1. +1000! Heck if my DH does an errand I make his father go along too

       2. OP you are 100% not the AH and I agree with the comments made here so far: I support enforcing boundaries and good time for your husband to suggest going to sister’s house. That said (coming from an East Asian family and I am an introvert very protective of my own boundaries) if it were me and primarily concerned with being tired from people and needing my space, I would consider letting them stay given that SIL’s house seems more crowded and especially during pandemic they might be more exhausted by . . . everything. OTOH if it’s not that big of a deal for them to bounce and/or it’s more than you just needing your space (which is, to be clear, totally valid on its own) I would absolutely tell my husband that now is the time to strongly suggest they move on.

       3. Haha, I see you have not met my husband. When I travel he begs my mother to come stay with him, help with the kids, and keep him company.

          1. And cook and clean because he can’t handle ALL THAT WORK, right? Man up!

             1. No, he cooks and cleans for her, but he just cannot handle being alone with or without kids. It’s cute but also exhausting.

    5. Yeah this is a cultural thing. I’m white and would not want my husband to leave on a business trip with my in-laws here. But my best friend is Indian and really just totally different expectations in her culture. Her in-laws visit for weeks at a time and often their son has to travel during that time frame. That said I agree that with Omicron the right thing here is probably pushing back on the business trip. If it’s not absolutely essential, people will probably be fairly amenable to canceling.

    6. I think this depends on how much they’re expecting from you. Do they want to be entertained during the day? Are they expecting you to make them home-cooked meals? Or are they happy to do their own thing and/or see husband’s sister’s family during the day, but just want to sleep at your house because it’s more spacious than SIL’s? If it’s the latter, I would feel really bad about asking them to move.

       I have to say I’m surprised by some of the strong “no f-cking way” reactions in the comments. I’m white but my husband and I were long distance for several years of our marriage, and my FIL regularly came to my city for business and stayed in my apartment without my husband there. It was really not that big a deal and I think it would have been rude to tell my FIL he had to pay for a hotel (he’s self-employed, so he didn’t have an employer footing the bill for his trips). That said, my FIL and I were both working long hours and he spent a lot of the non-work time having dinners with potential clients. I think we usually had dinner together once or at most twice per trip. It would have been a very different situation if he thought we’d hang out 24/7.

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