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Our daily TPS reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices. I sometimes get intimidated by the vast selection at ASOS — I know there’s a ton of good stuff in there, but finding it can be… challenging. I like almost everything by the brand Closet, though (whether it’s for work or weekend) — the dresses look sophisticated, with equal parts classy and equal parts sexy. This pale peach and gray one is simple and gorgeous, and only $81 new. (If you’re looking, the brand’s kimono-sleeve dresses seem to be hugely popular.) Pictured: Closet 2 in 1 Midi Dress with Wrap Skirt and Contrast. The brand also has a few styles available for plus sizes. Update: Nordstrom seems to have started putting stuff in the sale section, including this DvF dress and this Classiques Entier dress, both previously featured here. (Looks like there are a ton of Classiques Entier dresses and suits in the sale now.) I'm traveling today and can't do a full round up, but thought I'd raise the flag in case you guys wanted to check the sale section! Seen a great piece you’d like to recommend? Please e-mail tps@corporette.com. (L-all)Sales of note for 11.5.24
- Nordstrom – Fall sale, up to 50% off!
- Ann Taylor – Extra 40% off sale
- Banana Republic Factory – 50% off everything + extra 25% off with your GAP Inc. credit card
- Bloomingdales is offering gift cards ($20-$1200) when you spend between $100-$4000+. The promotion ends 11/10, and the gift cards expire 12/24.
- Boden – 10% off new styles with code; free shipping over $75
- Eloquii – Fall clearance event, up to 85% off
- J.Crew – 40% off fall favorites; prices as marked
- J.Crew Factory – Up to 60% off everything + 60% off clearance
- Lo & Sons – Fall Sale, up to 35% off
- M.M.LaFleur – Save 25% sitewide
- Neiman Marcus – New sale, up to 50% off
- Spanx – Lots of workwear on sale, some up to 70% off
- Talbots – Buy one, get one – 50% off everything!
- White House Black Market – Holiday style event, take 25% off your entire purchase
And some of our latest threadjacks here at Corporette (reader questions and commentary) — see more here!
Some of our latest threadjacks include:
- What to say to friends and family who threaten to not vote?
- What boots do you expect to wear this fall and winter?
- What beauty treatments do you do on a regular basis to look polished?
- Can I skip the annual family event my workplace holds, even if I'm a manager?
- What small steps can I take today to get myself a little more “together” and not feel so frazzled all of the time?
- The oldest daughter is America's social safety net — change my mind…
- What have you lost your taste for as you've aged?
- Tell me about your favorite adventure travels…
AttyinTexas
Love the kimono dresses, but I don’t like the front slit. What happens when you sit down and cross your legs???
Wanderlust
This dress is beautiful! I’m always hesitant to order from Asos because there are no customer reviews for each item.
Bonnie
I’ve ordered from Asos a few times and have always been disappointed. In my experience, the items look much nicer in photos than in real life. This dress looks gorgeous though…
Anonymous
Same experience with Asos
Lynn
It’s about 50/50 for me. When they win, it’s great. When they don’t, man, it’s baaad. Like uneven hems–and not the hi-low thing that’s done on purpose.
techgirl
I shop with ASOS monthly and generally have a 50% success rate, but I have premier for free next day delivery and returns are easy.
Scarlett
Same here, and to echo Lynn, when it’s a win it is a win – love them for party/date dresses. Less for work. Their coats are great, too.
Anon in NYC
Yeah, same. I love the photos (and this dress looks gorgeous), but I hear such mixed reviews.
SF Anon
This is beautiful, but would be a nude for me dress.
Bewitched
Loved this until I saw the big bow on the back. Great for wedding shower, not so hot for work.
Commuter Tote
I posted something to this effect late yesterday with just one reply. Appreciate any insight…
I’m about to start taking the train to commute for a new job (used to drive). I am looking to consolidate my two bags down to one. I have a slim, not-too-heavy new laptop that, so long as I have the right tote, does need it’s own laptop bag. I’m looking for something <$500. Not nylon. Some kind of inside pockets are necessary. Doesn't need to zipper. Must hold laptop, wallet, keys, lunch, and maybe a slim pair of flat shoes in the winter when I'd otherwise have snow boots on for my commute. No need to commute lots of papers/files – just the laptop.
I love a Tory Burch tote that's out right now, but I'm concerned about the handles. I had a Minkoff MAB but the handles nearly snapped off after 2 months as they only wanted to stand straight up, which is not practical . Thoughts? Favorites? Thanks!
espresso bean
I use a Vince Camuto leather tote for this purpose. It *just* fits my 13″ Air, plus a small lunch, keys, wallet, etc. It’s an older style, but VC seems to come out with this type of bag fairly frequently. The Madewell transport tote or any of the Cuyana leather totes would also work really well if you like a sleek look.
But even then, I find that I end up taking two bags. Even when I can get everything to fit in one bag, it starts looking and feeling bulky. Good luck!
NYNY
Since you don’t need a zipper closure, how about Everlane? The Petra Market tote is simple and lovely.
KateMiddletown
I’m still in love with my Dagne Dover. I have the 15″ and it’s a little too big, but it fits my 13″ MacBook Air, paper planner, file folder (letter size) and a legal size portfolio, along with all the usual suspects (sunglasses case, wallet, makeup bag, etc.) It’s not leather, but it looks so nice that I haven’t had a problem with that. I think all their colorful ones are on sale right now – I got the linen and use it pretty much 4 seasons. If I’m travelling I bring a clutch with me since it’s too bulky for nighttime/special events.
OP
Tell me more. Where can I see these in person??
KateMiddletown
Sadly you can’t, unless you live in NY/Chicago/other city where they host pop up shops. I think that’s typically in the fall when they launch new color stories? If you do buy, use my link: https://www.talkable.com/x/wKmRyG (I’ll get $25 to buy another one.) I would go for the 13″ if I had to do it again since the handles fold down – the 15″ doesn’t fit well under an airplane seat. They all have zippers at the top though. It looks like the sale colors are $150/$140, normally $250. They also HAD these great clutches that I didn’t get a chance to purchase, that are totally organized, but they’re bringing them back this fall so I’ll probably buy. Also, the company is founded by three young women, so I like supporting the company.
* Their instagram following/feed does show the bags off nicely, so even if you can’t see in person you get a feel for how they look on different body types/with different contents.
Anonymous
Ah, see, I have a 13″ (with the folding handles) and wish I had gotten the 15″!
Simplify
I got a Dagne Dover bag after reading all the great reviewers here & other blogs. It is a lovely bag but so heavy I ended up giving it away. I never loaded up & can only imagine how heavy it would be if completely full.
waffles
I’ve got the 13″ and I love it! I wish it were a tiny bit smaller, but it’s great when I have a large load. I don’t find it heavy, but I normally carry leather bags, so it must be relative. The organization is perfect for me – not too many pockets, but there is a spot for everything. Mine is a denim blue colour (I think it was a limited edition about 6 months ago), and it is really beautiful.
Anonymous
I have a grey Vera Wang messenger bag that works well. I just graduated and honestly would rather have a backpack, but this easily holds everything, looks good for my office, and doesn’t hurt my shoulder or back. It’s at least 2 or 3 years old though so I don’t know what they have out now.
Cat
I love the plain leather Coach totes — in my experience they hold up nicely for at least 5-6 years, and I don’t baby them.
Anonymous
Check out Tumi. I have a Voyager from a few years ago and it’s still going strong.
OP
Leather or nylon? I don’t want nylon, and that appears to be the only option for the tote!
Anonattorney
Or the Tumi Sinclair Viera Business Tote. It’s coated canvas. Super durable, perfect size for what you’re looking for, and wears really well. They go on sale during the holidays if you’re willing to wait–I got mine for $395.
Anonymous
The coated canvas looks great. I was a firm ‘leather only’ person until I met Tumi.
E
I think this is my bag. LOVE it and it has worn very well.
S in Chicago
Go coated canvas. Great in that your laptop won’t get wet in even the heaviest downpour. I’d also advise you try a bag for a bit before buying one. I was on team I’d-rather-die-than-wear-a-backpack, but the weight of even just my little MacBook air with make-up, wallet, etc. made a tote feel just so uncomfortable to carry, especially when I was in a rush (my train stop is a ways from my work). And don’t even get me started on trying to hold an umbrella at the same time. Tumi backpack in coated canvas has been like heaven. And it’s sophisticated enough that there’s no danger of looking like a student. I get compliments all the time and even bring it for travel since mine has the convenient luggage strap.
Tess
I love the Lo & Sons Seville bag! Fits so much – laptop, law school textbooks, makeup, phone, keys, everything. Its not particularly heavy either. Would highly recommend. Plus it comes with a sleeve that you can use when you’re traveling so that the Seville can slide over your carry-on luggage.
anon
I second the Seville. Sounds exactly like what you need.
OP
What is the shell/not shell thing about? I have an OMG and love it, but it was a true laptop bag and not what I need for this new commute of mine.
Teeks
As a train commuter, the OMG sounds pretty perfect for the commute you’re describing, no?
OP
No. The top is way too narrow, and it’s hard to fill it with food /containers and oddly-shaped things. I really want a wide open top, like I’d get from a traditional tote.
Anonymous
Further to the question Commuter Totes posed – what do you put your lunch in to make sure it doesn’t leak all over your laptop? My tupperwares are all pretty secure, but I’m paranoid. I’ve just been throwing the tupperware in a plastic bag but I feel like there’s probably a better option. Must be smooshable and lightweight.
Anonymous
A plastic bag
Wildkitten
A gallon size ziploc with the container inside it.
Bonnie
I use a Built lunchbag. I’m not as concerned with my Tupperware leaking but somthing else in my bag pushing it open.
Anonymous
I find these leak if there is a Tupperware disaster. Ok for salads, not for soups.
lawsuited
I use these containers from Ikea for transporting food to work:
http://www.ikea.com/ca/en/catalog/products/90233788/
The shape fits nicely into the bottom of a tote, the glass bottom can be reheated in the microwave without worrying about plastic leaching and doesn’t stain, and the lids are a perfect seal (I transport yoghurt, soup, salad with dressing, etc. and have never had a leak).
anon in SV
Yep, glasslock containers from Costco. They do not accidentally open, they do not leak, and the glass is microwave friendly. They are awesome.
in a bubble
Sometimes I feel like I live in a bubble. How do you fight this? I live in a big city, but my friend group is not diverse (racially or socioeconomically), and neither is my job or any of the activities I’m involved with. Everyone i know is upper-middle-class, has multiple degrees, and so on. I didn’t mean for this to happen… it just kind of did. And I’m realizing just how out of touch I am with the world outside of these groups. I don’t know where to start or how to fix it.
Note: I know that even commenting on this and having the time to think about it is reflective of immense privilege.
Has anyone else felt this way? What did you do?
Anonymous
Read the news, volunteer, go to church, join the PTA.
cbackson
Church has always been huge for me in this, particularly in terms of meeting people across the lifespan (from kids to 80-year-olds) and from different socioeconomic communities. When you’re a young professional, I feel like you can REALLY get locked into only knowing people in your own life stage and career stratum.
I will say that I’ve found churches not to be particularly racially diverse – which is super-weird for me. White non-immigrant people (which is what I am) were the minority in my church growing up, and I only realized that it was unusual for a white person to go to a church that was “majority minority” when I left home. Finding racially and ethnically diverse churches can be tough (easier if you’re Catholic, I think).
NOLA
cbackson, from what I’ve heard, the main reason that churches are not more diverse is that preference for style of worship is so personal and comes from that person’s tradition. That said, no need to stereotype how someone would prefer to worship. My church is quite diverse in race, age, LGBT, but not so much in socioeconomic status.
nutella
+1, I was going to suggest 1 and 2
nutella
Oh another thing, strike up conversations with people- wait staff, clerks, nurses, etc. not just asking them about their task/job they are doing for you but how their day is going. I learn some of the most interesting things talking to taxi drivers!
CountC
I always talk to taxi/Uber drivers. I was talking to my Uber driver this morning about what happens when someone merges into you where he is from in Egypt (prompted by someone trying to merge into us this morning). Let’s just say it’s VERY different!
Anonymous
+10
I talk to my doormen nearly everyday. It actually amazes me that so many people in my building practically ignore them unless they need them for something…
anon
Is this really a thing that needs to be “fixed”? You’re aware of the fact that you live in a small sub-set of society and that most other people have very different experiences than you do. Isn’t that more important than having some arbitrary quota of diverse people in your life?
Anonymous
+1
anonymous
It doesn’t *need* to be fixed, but it sounds like OP wants to have a less narrow experience. I think that’s wonderful. Maybe try new things? Go to an activity that maybe you wouldn’t have otherwise chosen. New experiences are good for their own sake, even if you aren’t trying to meet a different crowd of people.
Anonymous
I think there’s a ton of value in expanding your social circle and broadening your life experience. That’s distinct from the idea of collecting token diversity friends, but I don’t think OP is suggesting that’s what she wants to do. It’s one thing to be aware of people and experiences you can’t relate to, and it’s entirely different to have actual intimate, connecting relationships with people who come from a different set of life circumstances. Because diversity does matter. And people knowing people who aren’t like them is better for all of us. Because minimizing the “us” v “them” mentality takes more than just being aware of it. The impact of broadening your circle and getting outside of your bubble is that those differences give way to the similarities. And when someone who objectively has had different life experience than you shows you something in themselves that you can identify in yourself, you develop empathy and advocacy and you care about what happens to that person.
OP
Thank you, Anonymous 9:47! You said it much better than I did. That’s exactly what I meant.
emeralds
This is such a great response.
Godzilla
Exactly.
OP
I guess I didn’t explain myself very well. I don’t mean that I want an arbitrary quota of diverse people in my life… more that I just want to at least TRY to make an effort to get out of my bubble a bit.
Nati
This is totally great. I think we could all benefit from broadening our horizons! Me too.
bridget
Do you shop (especially late or during slow times)? Strike up a conversation with the people in the store. You might not become best buddies, but it reminds you of how a lot of people live.
Volunteer. You will meet a lot of middle class people.
Reconnect with people from high school (if you went public, non-exam).
Anonymous
The guy who I sat in homeroom with in middle school runs an auto dealership parts and service department. He is fascinating and has such a great life. He was not in the smart kids group, so we didn’t cross paths again for a long time, but it is interesting to see how people more or less have good adult lives without fancy degrees (and debt). Plus, many people have been working FT since they were 18, so they are so much more qualified in the adult department than many people a decade older.
Tetra
Volunteer!
emeralds
Good for you for realizing this, and wanting to do something about it. This is such an easy trap to fall into, and I know that I’m guilty of it right now as well. It’s just…easier to be with people who are like you, where you share similar values, similar outlooks, similar interests, similar hobbies.
The only antidote is trying new things. New church, new volunteer position, new activity. If your time is already maxed out (which is kind of where I am right now), consume media (news, culture, books) from different perspectives and voices instead of your defaults.
Alana
Changing media consumption can help. Chimamanda Ngozie Adichie spoke of “the danger of a single story,” so it helps to read a range of voices to get a broader perspective. For example, TaNehisi Coates has received a lot of positive media attention in the past few years, and his work is excellent, but those from his ethnic group who are female, or gay, or grew up in a different socioeconomic class have their own stories as well.
I strongly agree to interacting with others as peers, not as a volunteer or boss. A sense of equality is much more likely to lead to emotional intimacy.
Struggle
But Emmers, you’re treating people and cultures different from you like some kind of exotic thing for you to indulge in. Why are you going to come to our church — just to make yourself feel good? You’re going to come and “learn from us”? We are not here to appease your guilt.
I don’t mean to be harsh. It just drives me up a wall when privileged people come around to try to dabble in diversity.
emeralds
Honest question: How else is one supposed to learn, without going out into the world? This is something that I grapple with a lot, both personally and professionally. I work in a field (international education) that has real reckoning to do with tokenism, volontourism, poverty tourism, and 20 year old upper-middle-class white women suddenly becoming an expert in [insert culture in the developing world here] after spending two months there.
Personally, I read a lot of academic articles, blogs, opinion pieces, etc., from people with backgrounds different than my own. But it’s still not the same as sitting down with someone to really have a deep, concrete, and personal discussion. That lack of personal connection, that lack of listening, of empathising, is how you have (e.g.) men mansplaining feminism to women, or white people telling Colin Kaepernick to stand up. I can say that my perspectives on race and racism in America would probably be different if I had not grown up in a very diverse school system where I learned and played sports with people different from myself every day, and then worked in a social-justice oriented position with fantastic people and students of color and all sorts of socioeconomic backgrounds who I learned so, so much from. I certainly would not attend the African-American church 10 minutes from my house to “make myself feel good” and then give myself a pat on the back for getting my “diversity quotient.” That’s tokenism, that’s exociticizing someone else’s daily life, and I agree 100% that is horrible. But if I were to look for a church, I would certainly hope to attend one with a congregation with people of different races, social classes, and income levels.
I could write more but I’ve got to run to a meeting. I really appreciate your comment, Struggle, and I would love to learn more about how you think people with privilege should navigate this type of thing.
Leatty
If you have the time and desire, volunteer with an organization like Big Brothers Big Sisters. I did this for a couple of years and immensely enjoyed it. I gained so much perspective from the experience – my little sister and her blended family were so different from mine culturally, socioeconomically, racially, etc. It also gave me the opportunity to make a difference in her life, and I feel like the experience made me a better person.
January
+1 – I think some kind of volunteering where you can form a personal connection with someone outside of your bubble is the best solution.
Anonymous
Or volunteer at a school. There are a lot of highly educated people, even at an elementary school, but it has a different vibe than BigLaw. You can befriend some grownups.
January
I’m in a big law firm myself and volunteer at an elementary school. I don’t go to the school enough to have developed friendships with the teachers or staff, but it’s certainly a broadening experience.
Anon
Volunteer. If you’re a lawyer, call a local legal aid organization and ask if they need pro bono attorneys for DV intakes (our city has a cross-cultural DV clinic), evictions, or immigrant/refugee work. Your local bar association may have a volunteer lawyer program.
Otherwise, volunteer at a local DV shelter, or work with kids or adults who just immigrated, or even hand out food at a food bank. Connect with the people you’re serving. Ask them how they are, how they’re doing, and listen. Don’t compare to your own experiences; validate theirs. Don’t go in it hoping for them to teach you all about X, but about who they are.
TBK
Meh. I get where you’re coming from but there’s so much unbalance inherent in the volunteer/volunteeree relationship. Not that you couldn’t connect with these same people, but it would be more equal if you connected with them in a different environment. I’d advise joining an organization where you can interact as peers with people from different backgrounds. Houses of worship as people have mentioned. Volunteering where your co-volunteers come from different backgrounds. Other activities that aren’t super privileged (so not your local marathon club).
Sarabeth
I agree with this. If you are interested in a cause, I would look for advocacy groups instead – the kind of thing where you are shoulder-to-shoulder with other people who care about the same issue.
Wildkitten
Yeah I don’t form friendships with my pro bono clients. That’s not the relationship.
ChiLaw
I spent a long time teaching adult ESL in my neighborhood. I loved it because it didn’t feel as imbalanced as other volunteer work — everyone in my class was a ridiculously impressive adult who carved time from their busy schedules to work hard on their English skills. The students were from diverse backgrounds (native languages were Tagalog, Spanish, Vietnamese, and Arabic) but all lived in the neighborhood and everyone brought something to the table to teach everyone else. I also made friends with the other volunteers!
Anonymous
Your job has only white white-collar workers? No one else? Even at my bubble-ish job, there are layers of job classifications. One of our best people we got from a hair salon (did you know that many people who do hair have debt and own their own homes? and are more solvent and optimistic than many junior lawyers I know). She is fantastic. Many people here finished high school or have some college or an associates degree. Be nice to your waiter and support staff. Even in the bubble, there are a lot of people who are outside of it.
nutella
Not unfathomable. At my old law firm, almost all of the lawyers were white as well as almost all of the staff. Even people in the mail room and receptionist have college degrees and while there is a disparity in pay, they all work in the same office. It’s truly a bubble.
Anon for this
My state is a bubble. It’s pretty rare to see a person of color anywhere, in any socio-economic class, except in the one major city. Even there, the bulk of the minority residents are refugees who were placed there and didn’t actually choose the location.
The last time I check the stats we were 94% white, 3% Asian, 1% hispanic, 1% Black, 1% other non-white.
Anonymous
Yikes
Northern New England
Do you live where I live? I wonder. A (judge I know who shares the same heritage as me is starting a minority section for the bar association and I can think of like 3 people to reach out to about it.
Anon for this
To Northern New England, yes.
DiorGloss
I thought the refugees were in Lewiston, not Portland?
Anon for this
They are in Portland and Lewiston for Maine and Manchester and Concord for New Hampshire.
Northern New England
To DiorGloss: there’s only one ‘big’ city in my state and yes, the refugees are mostly in Burlington/Winooski. :) However, Rutland recently agreed to resettle Syrian refugees as well.
Monday
A lot of great suggestions have already been posted. In addition, remember that there are niche news websites for just about every background, demographic, or walk of life you could think of. It’s no substitute for talking to people, but it’s a way to access basically any viewpoint at any time. I’ve found it very interesting to find out what some key issues of concern are for groups to which I do not belong. Good comments sections or Twitter responses are also illuminating.
Anon for this
I’m the person from the super white state mentioned above. I do this too. My brother is really involved in social justice work in a much more diverse place and I try to read lot of what he links to and stuff those author’s link to. But when I try to talk about those issues with people in my bubble, I get a deer in the headlights look. Most of them have never even thought of some of the issues, let alone become familiar with the terms. Like, they have no clue what coded language is for example.
GCA
Apropos of this convo, some hard data to back it up! http://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/09/01/upshot/a-question-about-friends-reveals-a-lot-about-class-divides.html
CHJ
Any suggestions on what to wear to my boss’s daughter’s bat mitzvah? I’m in the Northeast, and the bat mitzvah will be at a temple and then a country club in the suburbs (in October). Also, what is an appropriate amount of money to give as a gift? Thanks all!
KateMiddletown
Work-ish shift dress.
Anonymous
Glitzy cocktail dress, $108.
Impatient
Multiples of the number 9 are considered good luck, so $99 or $108 is more commonly gifted than $100. I would go with probably the same and I would wear what you would wear to a wedding about the same time of year/in the same setting.
For me, I’d go conservative cocktail dress or LBD + Fun sparkly jewelry and a jewel colored wrap.
Meredith Grey
FYI 18 is the significant number (not 9). The numbers 1 and 8 in the Hebrew calendar spell the Hebrew word “life.” $118 is pretty common.
As far as what to wear, it’s common to not have bare arms at the temple service, so might want to pair a work shift with a cardigan and jacket. If the service is in the morning and the party is in the evening, guests will change outfits and cocktail attire or LBD with fun jewelry/accessories will be perfect for the evening party.
Impatient
My bad – totally 18 not 9! I should very much not attempt to remember cultural traditions before my coffee has been digested.
Signed, somebody who should definitely know better.
Anonymous
I would say c-tail attire (but on the work appropriate side, definitely nothing overtly s*xy) unless the invite says black tie. If it says black tie, then definitely a full-length gown for the party. I would probably give $100 but I don’t really know what’s appropriate. If it’s one of the moneyed suburbs like Needham or Newton I suspect the average guest will give a lot more, but you also don’t have a very close relationship with the bat mitzvah girl so I don’t think you need to give what the average guest gives.
CHJ
Would one of these dresses work, or are they not festive enough?
http://www.anthropologie.com/anthro/product/clothes-dress-occasion/4130385730022.jsp#/
http://www.anthropologie.com/anthro/product/clothes-dress-occasion/4130237432659.jsp#/
Anonymous
These are both perfect!
ChiLaw
I think they’re plenty festive! I would go for sleeves in your shoes (so maybe not the second, unless you have something to go over it), but I was actually envisioning something similar when I was describing a festive sheath dress.
MissIves
Definitely took me a second to figure out how to wear sleeves in shoes….I think it’s time for bed.
ChiLaw
I would consider a sleeved shift dress in a jewel tone. So “fun” but definitely conservative. Covered shoulders are the norm in some synagogues, but a wrap might seem funny because it would look like a tallis? So I would go with a sleeved dress with some kind of fun embellishment or sparkly jewelry.
Mauritius?
My husband and I are going to Mauritius for four days next week, and we’ve planned nothing. From looking online, I think we likely want to stay on the west or north sides of the island this time of year… is that correct? From there, I’m swamped in too many hotel options. We primarily care about a nice beach and some access to restaurants and other activities. Any recommendations? We’d prefer to spend under $1000 total. We are also hoping not to rent a car; will that be possible?
All help appreciated! Thank you!
Anonymous
Try club med pointe aux cannoniers
BB
Are there good apps or methods you guys use to save outfit inspiration photos? I guess there’s Pinterest, but sometimes I just want a snapshot of something like this dress. Also, when I tried Pinterest, it kept asking me to share share share and I just want a private place to keep pretty photos for later.
Anonymous
I think this is exactly what Pinterest is supposed to be. You can make secret boards that nobody except you can see.
BB
I know I can make a secret board on Pinterest, but it was more that every time I logged in, I would be hit with fifty “And now add your friends to SHARE” and “We think you’ll like these boards. Go FOLLOW!” messages. Got really annoying after a week.
KateMiddletown
Polyvore isn’t as popular as it once was, but I adore it for putting together outfit ideas/logging outfits that worked well.
Anon
My husband just told me that he feels really depressed and anxious and that he wants to see a doctor to go back on meds (he took Wellbutrin and Adderall in the past for depression and ADHD). How can I best support him without taking over? I don’t want to “mother” him (and I don’t think he wants that either), but part of the problem he faces is inability to get motivated to do things, even important things, and now that he’s identified this problem, I don’t want him to get stuck. Any advice or tips would be helpful – this is hard for me to watch, as I’m sure it is for many spouses/friends/family members. I’m not sure what to do.
P.S. For context, we just moved to a new area and only just got our new health insurance established. We don’t have new doctors yet and it’s an HMO, so he’ll need a referral to a psychiatrist.
Anonymous
“Awesome, so glad you’re taking care of yourself. I’ll make you an appointment with a GP right away.”
Let him tell you if he doesn’t want you to. You know he’s not going to do it for months, not because he is a child you are mothering but because inability to make doctors appointments is a symptom of his disease.
Nony
+1. Part of depression is an inability to plan/executive functioning. If he were lying in bed, ill from a physical cause, you would most likely call a GP and help him get to the doctor’s appt. This is no different. Call a GP. Help him get a referral to a psychiatrist and get recommendations for a therapist.
My DH has suffered from severe major depressive disorder. When he is doing well, I take huge steps back to let him take care of himself. However, when I see him cycling down, I will step in a bit to make sure that he is getting the care that he needs. It is a delicate dance. Also, the biggest/best advice I have received in supporting someone with depression is to reward the heck out of any positive movement, no matter how small, in a forward direction. He recognized he needed to be seen? That is a huge, amazing step. Congratulate him. Celebrate that accomplishment. Also, take care of yourself right now. Depression so easily traps those around it.
Lynn
This, absolutely.
anon
As someone who has been in your husband’s shoes– this, and Nony’s response. It’s amazing how depression can make a high functioning person almost paralyzed and seemingly unable to do basic, objectively “easy” tasks. Ask me how I know. It think it’s important to recognize that that is a symptom, and don’t shame him or berate him for it (not that it sounds like that’s something you’re doing).
Libra
Or, a more gentle. “I think that’s a great idea. I know it can be overwhelming to deal with the medical system. Would you like help setting up an appointment? Is there anything else I can do to support you?”
I would be pissed if my husband just set a doctor’s appointment for me. But if he offered, I’d think it was sweet. I’d still do it myself because I’m an adult. (And one with those same mental health challenges). But knowing your partner is there to catch you, or support you is nice. Having them “mother” you, or try to fix you, or make you do things in their schedule, is not. (For me anyway, and I try not to do things like that to my partner).
Anon1
This is super tough and something I am/have been struggling with, with my DH. In the end, he ended up making the appointment, and I gave him major props and positive reinforcement for taking that step on his own (not that he didn’t do it without huge encouragement from me — but it was still his decision and he made the phone call). Mothering your DH is a huge concern and at least for us, seemed to be exacerbated by the depression. If you call and he isn’t ready, he may feel pressured. On the other hand, if you think he is a danger to himself or others, throw your mothering concerns out the window and get him help.
PCP’s, in my experience, are very willing to prescribe meds for depression/anxiety. So there may be no need for psychiatrist.
Also, I second what Nony says about taking care of yourself. My DH’s depression affected me in a way I didn’t expect. Now, it is my turn to make the Dr.’s appointment.
anon
He may be able to get a PCP to prescribe the Wellbutrin since he’s had a history with it and give the psych referral. Wellbutrin works quicker than a lot of the other meds so he might get some relief faster. Making that first appointment is hard so encourage him to ask to be put on a cancellation list if the doctor has a long wait for new patients.
Anononope
I was really depressed about a year ago, so here’s my take on what my husband did that was great, and what he did that had room for improvement:
Great — “I’m so sorry you’re feeling this way.” “I’m so glad you want to get help!” and then picking up the slack while I went to a million appointments. “Do you want to [do things he knows I like doing]? It might make you feel better.” and then not giving me any grief for all the sleeping I did, and my general inability to get anything besides absolute essentials done.
Needs Improvement — “You should go to the gym.” (He was 100000% right, I always feel better when I work out, but when I can barely pick my sobbing *ss up off the floor, I didn’t want to be told that) and then also, I really really wish he had helped me track down a therapist. It was SO hard to find someone who dealt with PPD and had hours after 5pm or on the weekends, especially when every “no” sent me into this spiral of hopelessness. In our relationship I am always the researcher and appointment maker, so I understand why he didn’t think to take that on for me, but oof it really would’ve helped.
Anonymous
What should he have said about the exercise, do you think…?
Would asking you to just take a walk outside with him after dinner been better?
Thanks..
anon
A walk outside with my husband would have been great. Low pressure, fresh air, time with my spouse- all sound lovely.
Not anononope but as someone with similar struggles
Anononope
I agree.
I wonder, too, if it’s easier to hear that suggestion as a man, because (very broad strokes here, so of course this isn’t true for everyone) men might be less likely to hear “you should exercise” as code for “you should lose weight and be more attractive.” That’s part of why “you should go to the gym” was hard for me to hear, it felt like I was being criticized for not going. (Def. my own baggage at play, def. something I am working on.)
But, as I said to Godzilla, going to the gym is ridiculously good for my mood, so on some level he was right to tell me to go…
A thing that helped me go was to think of the gym as a treat I gave myself. I put on my silliest pop music and bopped around on a elliptical, or watched trash TV while on a stationary bike, and then took a long, uninterrupted shower (baby at home made this a rare luxury). Basically, when I started to think of the gym as a nice thing to do to cheer myself up, like a pedicure, rather than a chore that I had to get through, it got much easier to go. (This shift in thinking is something I worked on with my girlfriends and my therapist, but I think a partner could’ve helped me make this shift as well.)
Godzilla
Have you mentioned the “needs improvement” category to your husband?
Anononope
Yes, I have. Unfortunately, I didn’t really have it together to mention it when I needed to, but at least he knows going forward. We’ve also talked about looping in a very close mutual friend who is great at things like calling offices and making appointments, so maybe she can help me if there is a next time.
And telling me to go to the gym is a complicated thing because it definitely works (I feel better after sweating, every single time), but I always hear it as “if you weren’t so fat maybe you’d be happy” even though that is absolutely not what he means, it’s my baggage, but it’s what I hear. But on the other hand, I do sometimes not go to the gym because evening time is so limited already, it feels selfish, so in those cases being encouraged to go might be helpful. In short — it’s a good thing I’m still in therapy.
Godzilla
Is it totally outside the realm of possibilities that your husband would go to the gym with you? Can he say, “hey let’s go to the gym tonight” and it wouldn’t trigger your negative thought spirals?
ChiLaw
I think that for the two of us, going to the gym together would be a disaster. We are just SO different in the way we like to be physically active that it would probably be totally unfun (the exception is long walks, which are a great thing that we do together whenever we can).
Anon
Thanks so much for the good advice, everyone. This is helpful.
That Friend
I’ve been thinking since nutella’s post earlier this week…I could basically be That Friend. :( I broke up with my ex-bf 6 months ago and still miss him every day. In a nutshell, he is 2 parts extraordinary and amazing in a way that I’ve never experienced, 5 parts standard human being (good stuff + neutral stuff + price of admission), and 1 part nuclear dealbreaker (self-absorbed/callous/unempathetic when he is feeling miserable, refuses to seek help for whatever mental issue is making him miserable).
I broke up with him after a bad episode of this and blocked him. I haven’t contacted him since, but it’s a daily struggle not to. All my options suck. Either:
A: I have to adjust my expectations and be satisfied with how he treats me (but this was making me unhappy before), or
B: somehow convince him to get mental help (when he hasn’t been convinced to by a lifetime of his own suffering, by seeing how his behavior hurt me, or by me leaving him), or
C: figure out how to let go of the best parts of him along with the bad ones, the rare attributes that hooked into exactly what I want in a partner, and be happy enough alone or with someone else who doesn’t share those things.
I’m almost 40 years old. I want a partner. I have no doubt I can find a good man who consistently treats me as well as my ex did at his best. But that doesn’t feel like enough. I don’t want someone who doesn’t have the best of what my ex gave me…and I can’t be with my ex because I can’t accept the worst of what he gave me. And yet, I was so happy to be with him (when he wasn’t having one of his emotional breakdowns, that is). I’ve never been happier, either on my own or in another relationship. But apparently he can’t sustain the good times without cycling through freakouts in between. Not okay.
When I write it out like this it seems the answer is to let him go, but in my heart I am always pretty close to picking up the phone to call him. I’ve been seeing friends, doing old and new hobbies, going on dates, but I still miss him every day, and the only thing that makes me feel better is daydreaming that he will take responsibility for his issues and we get back together. He really was/is extraordinary in both good and bad ways, and I don’t imagine I’ll see his like again. I hate and fear the thought that, whether single or partnered with someone else, I’ll be pining for the good things about him forever.
Anonymous
Why do you want to be miserable? What does being depressed about this contribute to your life?
Why aren’t you listing Option D- get some therapy, get over the guy who treated you like crap, move on and enjoy a wonderful life?
You need to figure out a way to stop living in the fantasy land of your daydreams. If you go back to him, you’ll both be treated badly and know that you don’t think enough of yourself to want to be treated well. CBT and positive self talk work if you use them.
“Oh wouldn’t it be nice to be back with him?” “No. Remember how he is an awful person. Stop dwelling.”
Stop being a passive spectator on your own life and actually try.
Anon
This is way harsh. He’s not an awful person; he’s acting like an awful person. That’s an important distinction. However, you don’t have to stick around regardless. I do agree, however, that therapy is actually a great idea here. Find one ASAP. Preferably one who has experience in CBT and relationships.
What helped me when I was in the middle of a terrible break up was two things: write out, on an index card, 5-6 of the most egregious things that ever happened; on the other side, fill it with words and short phrases that remind you you’re worth more than him. Mine said things like “There is beauty in walking away. Better. Enough. Strong. Brave”. Carry it around. When you’re missing him, pull it out to remind yourself why you broke up with him.
If you ever get an overwhelming desire to contact him, promise yourself until you’ll wait for (tomorrow, the weekend, after you talk to your therapist, etc. Always give it at least overnight). As insurance, also have someone who will tell it to you straight or who you can emotionally pour your heart out to and call them before you want to call the person, even if you’ve waited the time you promised yourself you would (which, for me, never once happened- the urge would go away overnight). For me, I’d experienced abuse, so I called our local crisis line the once or twice when I knew I wouldn’t be able to hold myself to my promise I was having such a terrible time not contacting him.
You can find someone who treats you well and is extraordinary in the good ways without the terrible emotional baggage the other guy brought along.
Good luck.
Senior Attorney
I don’t think “being an awful person” vs. “acting like an awful person” is an important distinction at all. Either way, you’re treated horribly. Ugh. In my view, if he consistently acts like an awful person, he’s an awful person.
Other than that, +1 to all of this!
Anon
In terms of treatment, no. As I said- don’t stick around. But I think saying that people are awful demonizes mental illness. Even my abuser isn’t an awful /person/- he acts awful, and I do not respect him and think he’s cruel, but there’s light and dark in each of us. He’s not 100% awful.
That Friend
Anonymous, why do you think I don’t think enough of myself to want to be treated well? If I didn’t care, I would never have broken up with him. Trust me, I am trying. If I could just stop “being depressed about this” and move on, I would have.
Anonymous
You can though. You’re thinking about giving up because you’ve spent 6 months daydreaming away actual life. You absolutely can do this, and going back to him would absolutely be a signal that you don’t care about yourself.
nona
+1 – You are adjusting to a new normal, and that is hard. But it’s also totally within your control. This is situational depression and it will pass. You are mourning the possibilities of what you had, but they were only possibilities.
So, yes, as some point you have to stop dwelling on the past and the what-ifs and decide to start thinking about the future. It’s not going to happen all at once and you can’t shortcut through it, but you have to be the one to take action in order to not stay mired in it.
Godzilla
I 100% agree with Anonymous at 9:51 and 11:31. It’s tough but you can do it. You can.
espresso bean
I think you are still too close to the situation to see that there is a fourth option:
D. Move on because you know it won’t work with him in spite of the good moments. Eventually meet someone who is great in ways you didn’t even anticipate AND doesn’t have any nuclear dealbreakers. Once you are with that someone, you won’t see the world in terms of Ex and Not Ex, but in a whole new spectrum of possibilities.
You just can’t see it yet. But that’s the option you should go for, even if it’s the hardest one and takes the longest.
Nati
I’m rooting for option D. I know how hard it is to see and accept that one, though. I really empathize with what you’re going through.
Scarlett
+1 – I married option D so I vote for that. It’s scary to lose a partner who wasn’t all terrible and to date again and move on. But you owe it to yourself to try to find someone who’s all the amazing things. Give yourself more time. It takes a while to get over a relationship.
Anonymous
+1. And to paraphrase Sheryl Sandberg’s friend (whose quote really resonated with me after losing a parent and going through a hard breakup): Your options A and B are not available and option C is self-destructive, so go kick the sh!t out of option D.
Anonymous
I feel like I could’ve written this. I met a guy who made me feel like I was on a looping rollercoaster that I couldn’t get off of. The highs were so so high but the lows were gut-wrenching, out-of-nowhere and terrifying. But I was so addicted to the highs that I gritted my teeth and figured that was the “price of admission” for the passion.
Thankfully, he broke it off. I don’t know how long I would’ve stayed in it.
And a year later I met a guy I have since married. The highs aren’t quite as high, but there are virtually no lows. And for the first few months of dating I missed the thrill. But I’ve come to discover about myself that those highs were so bad for me. They were so destabilizing. The highs were often as unpredictable as the lows. The passion, the thrill, they were indicative of a guy living only on the extremes of the spectrum. And my now husband isn’t him, couldn’t be further from that guy. But I am so madly in love with him because of the ways he isn’t that guy. It’s been about 6 years since that guy and while I treasure the memories of the crazy sh1t we did, I don’t long for it. The price of admission was more than I was willing to pay for an entire lifetime.
ELaw
“But I’ve come to discover about myself that those highs were so bad for me. They were so destabilizing.”
+1
Well said. I’ve had this experience too and it’s not worth it. My current SO doesn’t have those highs. He just consistently is an amazing person. So much better for me emotionally and mentally. OP it’s hard to see from where you are (I speak as one who knows), but you’re better off. Even if you don’t find someone else, ever, you’re better off.
I’d suggest taking up a new hobby to take your mind off of the current sadness.
That Friend
How did you make the switch to being satisfied with someone who is consistently great but doesn’t have the high highs? Did it feel disappointing at first?
ELaw
Actually, for me personally, I found that rather than looking for and missing the high highs, I was dreading the low lows. When they consistently failed to happen, I found myself just … relaxing. And then smiling all the time.
Anonymous
This was my experience as well. I realized I got a high out of never being hurt/disappointed.
Also, it gave me the opportunity to be the one bringing the “highs” into the relationship.
ChiLaw
I’ve been here too, and married an Option D. My ex really *got* me in special ways, we shared a sense of humor and interests and things that I knew I would never share with someone else. I was so sad when I broke up with him to know that I would never have those particular special connections with another person. I mourned that for a long time. But truly, those special sparkly things now pale in comparison with what I share with my husband: a value system that has kindness toward one another as a fundamental obligation. My husband doesn’t read my mind the way my ex did, it’s true. But he’s a really really Good Man. And I’ve been surprised to find that I prefer that! (And he’s also sexy and hilarious and my compliment in his own way, of course.)
There’s an old article on The Hairpin that I think back to a lot “The best time I called a radio advice show” and it talks about seeking butterflies over lightning bolts in attraction. Might be worth a read.
That Friend
Thanks–I’ll check out the article.
anon
It is really, really, REALLY difficult to be the partner of a person who doesn’t want to take care of his mental health. Imagine that for the next 30 years, especially when life isn’t as rosey as it is now.
You deserve better than what he gave you, and it sounds like you know it. Just keep holding on to that and it will continue to get easier. 6 month’s isn’t that long of a time after a serious relationship. But it will continue to get easier. Also, recognize that you’re pining for option C, which doesn’t exist. You actually only have options A and C, which are be with him including his bad behavior, or break up with him. You’re attached to the fantasy of option B working optimally. Super reasonable desire, but you’ll always torture yourself by imagining it. As soon as you let go of the idea that option B exists (you know it doesn’t), you’ll be able to accept option C.
And holy crap, why on earth have people commenting here gotten so rude? I’m looking at you, anonymous at 9:51.
nona
Eh – that sounded like blunt real-talk to me. And sometimes you need that when you are 6 mths out from a needed breakup but still pining and grieving for what you thought you had.
Anonymous
uh yeah? I was 100% trying to help here.
anon
Uh, ok, I get that you were trying to help and I don’t even disagree with your advice. But, I think you sounded very rude. I also think you sound rude in your post below. Who made you the final arbitrator of how and for how long people should feel upset about a relationship?
“Stop being a passive observer in your own life and actually try?” FFS. People LOVE being told they aren’t even trying in their own lives by internet strangers. I know that when I’m going through a tough time I appreciate when people discount the efforts I have made and tell me that it’s all my fault because I’m weak and lazy.
In sum: you can give someone “real talk” without shaming them.
anon
OOPs pining for option B*
Anonymama
Yeah, some people have different communication styles, and sometimes people need things spelled out to them very bluntly… It can be painful to hear, but those words can reverberate in a way that just being kind and gentle and understanding won’t. I think sometimes being very harshly honest isn’t the “nice” thing to do, but it can actually be kinder in the long run (also this can vary depending on people’s personalities and their relationships with each other, I just assume that the bluntly harsh people are responding as they would to a friend that they love but that needs a reality check, not to be mean).
Edna Mazur
Isn’t it Senior Attorney who says something like your relationship is only as good as the bad times, or something like that (sorry for butchering your wisdom SA).
He is showing you who he is (both good and bad) and chances are he can’t/won’t change. I can imagine that as time wears on, the shiny great stuff would be overshadowed by you walking on eggshells hoping the bad stuff doesn’t rear its ugly head.
Agree with Anon, Option D.
Anon
Also, that people aren’t an improvement project. That’s also key here- sure, treatment would probably be a great thing for him, but he doesn’t want it and you can’t force it.
Senior Attorney
Yes! That’s exactly it! The relationship stands or falls on its worst moments. And people are definitely not improvement projects!
Option D for the win!!!
January
I think you know your only real option is option C. Maybe option D (get therapy) to help you get to option C. You have to let this guy go. The worst parts of him (which do sound pretty bad) are still very much a part of him, as much as the parts you love and admire.
I know it’s hard. I think Nutella was asking about Captain Awkward, so go search her archives for posts with the Darth Vader tag, because your ex sounds like a Darth Vader by her definition.
And also, read this: http://nymag.com/thecut/2016/08/ask-polly-why-cant-i-get-over-my-awful-ex.html
Good luck. I know it’s hard.
That Friend
It’s true–the bad parts are as much a part of him as the good parts. Uggh.
That was a really good article, thanks. He wasn’t nearly so awful as the boyfriend in question (and never deliberately cruel like that), but I think the outlines are still useful.
Lynn
If you’re looking for someone to validate your desire to call him, I hope you don’t find it here. I know that sounds harsh, but I was in a marriage with someone like that for over a decade. Spoiler alert: I’m now a single mom.
That Friend
Thanks. I knew I wasn’t going to get the validation to call him by posting here. Sorry you went through it, too…
Suburban
Anon above is being harsh. (Is this a trend lately?) I feel for you OP. I had an ex like that, took me years to get over. The highs were crazy high and the lows were unacceptable. You know where you need to go in life and I’ll promise you it’s better on the other side. Good luck.
Anonymous
Girl stop. I am not. It’s a sincere question – what are you getting out of holding onto your misery here? Guarantee there is an answer. If you can find it, you can solve it. Is it easier to be relentlessly sad about him than a bad job? Easier than looking to the future? Less scary than trying to be happy and failing?
It’s been 6 months. She’s thinking about just calling him. The time for oh no poor sweetie is over.
Suburban
Fair point and understood. Please don’t call me girl.
Anonymous
This anonymous really loves to tell people “Girl stop.”
Also, this anonymous apparently has no real life personal problems that can’t be immediately solved by willing them away.
Anonymous
Girl, stop being such a cry baby. It’s not about willing them away. It’s really really hard. It took me a year of everytime I thought about my ex saying “no. Stop. He’s terrible” for me to convince myself it was true.
Anonymous
Then why are you being so “real” with OP who is only 6 months into this process? One set of rules for “trying” for you, another set for someone else. Girl, bye.
That Friend
It’s a good question. I think it’s easier to be relentlessly sad about him than to face the fact that I’m back to square one when I felt like I was soooo close to exactly what I wanted.
I appreciate the responses but I do think your tone has been rude sometimes. Luckily after my relationship with my ex-bf I am an expert at ignoring hurtful/callous exteriors and focusing on the substance within, heh.
Anonymous
This is like a lot of drugs and addictions: the highs are awesome. But they highs don’t last, do they? And the lows are awful.
Step away from that crack pipe of a man.
nutella
Hi there. Here’s a virtual hug for you.
I would agree with a lot of what has been said. This sucks, there is nothing else to call it. As Senior Attorney says often, the only way out is through it and if you don’t keep moving forward, you will have to start all over again. Relationships should be easy, bc as SA also says, it stands and falls on its best and worst moments.
Let me ask you a question: do you hide/keep secret the things he has done or said to you from your close friends? I feel pretty confident the answer is yes because you described him as “nuclear dealbreaker.” Right now you are thinking, but that was only one part! The other parts outweight it! No, they don’t. Nuclear means total destruction. Dealbreaker means it’s over and there is no room for negotiation. Listen to yourself and your gut. Option D that others have mentioned is the “only way out is through” route. You are more than welcome to try A, B, or C, but you’ve tried them. Option A (accept it) is obviously not acceptable to you because you’ve already broken up, you described him as “nuclear” so obviously you are not the type of woman that will just deal with it. So A is out. B is just not going to happen. You can also call it B for ‘bang your head against the wall’ because you cannot change people. You just can’t. I am sure you have seen that elsewhere in your life. In fact, you are an example because maybe he wants you to change to be the kind of person that deals with his sh!t. B should never be on anyone’s list because it is no more an option than wishing you could have married Mr. Darcy. It is not going to happen. Option C is how YOU are being nuclear. There are millions of eligible men on this earth and you are ruling them all out before you’ve met any of them because you don’t think anyone could compare to the good parts of your old cr@ppy ex. Put yourself in the shoes of Mr. Wonderful out there and imagine dating you and all you do is compare him to some old ex bf who treated you terribly. You can absolutely take this option if you want, but it will not lead to happiness for you or for any future man you date. The only way is through it, option D.
And finally, let’s compare it to food, because why not!! Let’s say men are sushi. Let’s say that the seaweed, avocado are incredible and the cucumber and the rice are ok, but your shrimp tempura is rotten. Dress it up with delicious tempura, but it’s rotten and needs to be thrown out or it will make you sick (nuclear part of this guy). You cannot un-rot it (option B), you cannot swallow it and pretent it’s all ok (option A), and you cannot take it apart for the good parts because then it’s not a sushi roll, it’s just rice and stuff (option C) and have you ever tried re-putting together a sushi roll? Even if you jam in a better, new shrimp with the other stuff, it’s going to fall apart. Send it back, throw it out, whatever, get yourself a new sushi roll and remember that not all shrimp is rotten and causes food poisoning, even if you need time to get to that point. Why are you giving yourself food poisoning?
Godzilla
LOVE the sushi analogy!
That Friend
Wait, wait…so my ex isn’t going to change, my sushi is spoiled, AND I can’t marry Mr. Darcy? This just gets worse and worse! Funny that you mention Darcy because I’ve totally retreated into Austen rereads as a source of comfort.
I actually haven’t hidden the stuff he’s done/said from my close friends. I really needed emotional support that I was doing the right thing by breaking up with him and that I’d done everything within my power to fix things before taking that step…so basically I had no filter with a few select people. And they are all without exception like “yes, you needed to break up with him, he will never change and he was not being good to you.” They loved him when they knew him, but now I think if they ever saw him again they’d chase him off with a shotgun. I know the good parts can’t outweigh the bad parts because the bad parts really sucked. I just…can’t let go of the good parts. Uggh.
In conclusion, I really don’t want food poisoning…I just really want the shrimp, and not the salmon or the tuna…and as close as I can tell so far, that was the last piece of shrimp. Maybe shrimp has gone entirely extinct! I am not going to eat a spoiled shrimp, but I’m feeling really hangry about it.
nutella
check out the post directly below for a woman who found a completely fresh, delicious new shrimp. Shrimp and men are not extinct, you are worthy of a good man. You are worthy. And he will be worthy of all the good you have to offer too. Hugs.
That Friend
Thanks, nutella, if I didn’t say so before.
nutella
^^^ Of course. I am compelled to write (and to comfort my friend) because I HAVE BEEN THERE as have sooooooo many others here and elsewhere and it got so so so so so so much better. I hope you have hope because I do for you! (and for my friend!)
Godzilla
Thanks to this thread, ALL OF THE SHRIMPS FOR DINNER!
That Friend
Just make sure they aren’t rotten!
Senior Attorney
I love this so much.
And That Friend, I am late to this thread because I have been busy running around doing stuff to get ready for my wedding in EIGHT DAYS to the most wonderful man in the whole wide world, with whom I have the most amazing life that I could not have even imagined when I was with Mr. Rotten Shrimp Tempura for fifteen years because I thought the good parts could outweigh the truly awful stuff.
It is awesome on the other side. Just keep putting one foot in front of the other and do not pick up the phone no matter what.
Anonymous
Just to give you some hope:
DH’s boss is a wonderful lady who was married to a man with bipolar (I forget what it’s called now) that was basically untreated as he wasn’t interested in pursuing treatment. She finally left him after 20 years and a lot of guilt. At 46 she met a wonderful and caring doctor about ten years older who was financially savvy enough to be able to retire early and moved to where she lives. He cooks and is super active and outdoorsy which suits her perfectly after years of feeling guilty about leaving her husband at home to pursue her interests.
Not kidding. I’d be super jealous except she’s such a nice person that I’m mostly just really happy for her.
Betsy
How do normal people get good at DIY home projects? I just bought a house and I literally don’t have the first clue about how to do small projects. Meanwhile, I keep hearing about people tearing out their kitchens or refinishing their floors. I want to be able to do some of that stuff myself, but I wouldn’t even know where to start. How do people learn to do these things?
Anonymous
Books, This Old House, blogs, Home Depot, starting small and gradually building your skills.
Anonymous
Home Depot and the like have free classes. That said, I’d never rip out my kitchen unless I was a trained carpenter. DIY is great for small stuff around the house that you would otherwise have to call a handyman for, like painting, installing light fixtures, etc. A big thing like a kitchen renovation you’re going to want a professional.
POSITA
This really depends on your skills. We’ve DIYed several large projects that have turned out great, including gutting three bathrooms. Our kitchen is next on our list. No training, but we have a good bit of experience at this point.
We’ve also had to repair or redo reno projects that were poorly done by professionals. Hiring a professional does not guarantee you a great result. If you don’t know what to look for it’s really easy to get swindled with cut corners or shoddy work.
lawsuited
The internet, I’m going to say. There are DIY blogs, YouTube channels, How To pages, and on and on.
Home Depot, and perhaps other hardware stores, also put on classes on tiling, etc.
Bonnie
Home Depot and Lowes both have free clinics. There are also great step-by-step videos on YouTube. I’ve learned though that doing things myself takes so much more time than expected and now I let the pros do it when the cost isn’t high. E.g., I passed on the $99 dishwasher installation and it took me a whole day and a trip to the hardware store. Not making that mistake again.
ITDS
Forget tearing out your own kitchen for a while. Watch DIY network, particularly “Renovation Realities” or look it up on line. You’ll see how tough this stuff really is. Also Home Depot and Lowes will have classes in small cosmetic projects like painting and tiling. There are also tons of YouTube videos.
Canadienne
Google! I like to consider myself high quality handy. Which means I take ALLL the steps. In the case of painting (because yesterday a poster mentioned dog hair and dirt, EWW) that means filling, sanding, dusting, washing, a solid few hours to air dry, taping, edging, rolling, and two coats. This also means it takes me 8 hours to paint a room but it comes out beautifully. I also know my own skill level and hire a professional for things beyond my scope.
In sum: research, don’t skip steps, take your time, know your limits.
ELaw
+1
I would add to the “in sum”: don’t buy cheap tools. Not worth it!!
Nati
Yup! I learned this the hard way after skimping on a paint brush and then having to pick errant bristles off the wet wall as I was working.
New Anon
You Tube and patience for the smaller projects. I’ve repainted kitchen cabinets, installed new light fixtures, installed new toilet parts, etc. For bigger projects, like new flooring or countertops, I’ve relied on professionals.
MNF
+1 Youtube! In the last year, I figured out how to wire a lamp and how to sew curtains from youtube videos.
Also, if you know someone who is handy, ask them for advice. When my DH and I bought our house, we asked our handiest friends to come over for a beer and a tour. It was helpful to figure out which projects were worth DIY and what needed a professional.
anon a mouse
Start small, and start with projects that won’t break the bank if you screw up and have to call in a professional to fix. Measure twice, cut once. Don’t buy a million tools until you know you need them, but have enough tools to get the job done.
(says the girl who is contemplating trying to replace a toilet this weekend instead of calling a plumber)
Ginjury
Ladies, I’m looking for suggestions for curvy, pear-hourglass friendly dresses to wear to my business-casual (but slightly more casual than business) office, preferably under $200. Also, suggestions for outfits in general. Lately I’ve just been feeling very blah about my wardrobe and need to step it up. TIA!
KT
Depending on your size, check out Kiyonna (the smallest they make is size 10).
Their dresses are incredibly flattering and still modest enough for the workplace. I’m an extreme curvy pear shape, and even simple work dresses tend to look a bit vulgar on me. Wrap dresses are flattering, but many are too low cut, even with a camisole. The Kiyonna essential wrap dress is a unicorn and I have it in every color; the neckline is modest, it has a fuller skirt so it doesn’t cling to my hips, and the material DOES NOT WRINKLE.
Their Trinity dress is also very forgiving, particularly if you carry weight in your belly.
I also love their tops–their Linden lace top is a va va voom top that makes my waist look super tiny for dates out, but their Caycee Twist top is the perfect, put-together casual shirt.
(Sorry, I’m basically a Kiyonna spokesperson…they’re also the only place I could find a black-tie gown that fit me without making me look like the mother of the bride).
Ginjury
Unfortunately I’m a 6/8 on top and 10/12/14 on the bottom so I’m sized out of Kiyonna.
NYNY
With a 2-3 size differential top to bottom, you may not be able to find dresses off the rack that fit well. You can tailor, or you can buy separates.
...
obsessed wit this dress.
http://m.shop.nordstrom.com/s/tahari-seamed-a-line-dress-regular-petite/4347898?origin=keywordsearch-personalizedsort&fashioncolor=CURRANT
anon a mouse
Anne Klein has some wrap dresses that might fit the bill for you. The prints range from cute/neutral to hideous, but the price is right. They are on amazon and in store at Macys/Dillards.
Pears
Ann Taylor A-lines fit me great.
Anon
So excited to start work today post-bar! It’s what I came into law school to do, exactly where I wanted to end up, and I’m so grateful and thrilled to be starting!
Ellen
Hug’s and RAWR to you! I am so happy for you and that you are carrying on in the tradition we older women have opened up and forged for you! YAY!!!! Keep up doeing what you are doieng and in a few year’s you will probably become a force in the legal field! DOUBEL YAY!
Godzilla
Come now, Ellen, WE are not old!
Anonymous
Ellen,
I’m so glad to hear from you. You always brighten my day. I am being serious, not sarcastic, in case anybody is wondering. I like Ellen’s spirit and she is the main reason I visit here.
Anon
….I’m 23. But thanks? I feel honored to have had a post get your ridiculous treatment.
M.S.
Congrats! The first few weeks post-bar were exhilarating. You’ve reclaimed your life. Go live it.
Black Thumb
For the first time in my life, I have a backyard and a front patio. I want to have plants but nothing seems to stay alive! The backyard is mostly shady, and I’ve tried a lot of shade-friendly plants. We have dogs and chickens, so everything is planted in big pots. My plants always die after a couple of months, and the soil often seems wet, even moldy. The pots had drainage systems and we put some rocks/wood chips under the soil. Easy-to-grow stuff, like creeping myrtle and hostas, hydrangeas. The only things that thrived were herbs in a sunnier spot. I used potting soil for all of it.
The front is sunny and the plants thrive. But I am terrible at watering them and they always shrivel up – no hose in the front so watering has to be with a can. I couldn’t even keep a zinnia alive!
I am determined to plant a small fall vegetable garden in the sunny front patio. I bought a deep, fabric raised bed – Victory brand – which is very well-reviewed. And these seeds: carrots, broccoli, arugula, kale, and cabbage. I intend to use the fruit/veggie potting soil from the hardware store and follow the directions on the seed packs (when to plant for zone 7, depth, spacing, etc). Will this work?
Can I do this, is it possible? What are your best garden tips (that are not too complicated or time consuming)? How can I be diligent at watering?
KT
I have zero advice, but it can be done!
We just have a little balcony, and somehow my husband has a lime tree, mango tree, basil, arugula, cilantro and carrots growing like weeds.
I could kill a fake plant so I have no idea how he does it, but I do know he is very careful about NOT over-watering and is constantly adding fertilizers and releasing ladybugs to keep the parasitic bugs away. (He literally buys live ladybugs on Amazon. We are crazy people).
He has an alarm set for watering time.
Anonymous
I think I’d start way easier than growing vegetables from seeds in fall. What about planting some bulbs now for spring flowers? Buying a small shrub? Acquiring a long hose?
Suburban
+1 tulips and daffodils are short-lived but super easy if you plant them in the fall. Also, buy some dahlia tubers for planting early spring next year in the front-mine bloom July until late October. And just get in the habit of daily watering for your flowers.
Betsy
I suspect you’ll have great luck with the kale and probably the arugula, but carrots can be really tough (especially in containers) so don’t feel badly if they don’t grow well! Do you have a good garden center near you? You might have better luck with veggie starts than planting from seed. I like to do a mix in my garden. This year I bought tomato and brussels sprouts seedlings but planted basil, zucchini, butternut squash and cucumbers from seed. For watering, you want to water deeply less frequently instead of watering a little bit every day. That encourages better root development and creates healthier plants. Veggies generally need about an inch of water a week (including rain) so you may not need to water as much as you think. Good luck!
Anonymous
Very few plants thrive in full shade, especially in pots (which have water issues as you’ve discovered). It sounds like the drainage on your pots is getting blocked and not working properly. I would start over, adding far more rocks/gravel to the bottom of the pot and making sure there’s a place for water to flow out. Is it possible your dogs are peeing on the plants in the back?
To grow vegetable in the front, you really need to water every day that it doesn’t rain. Can you get an outdoor faucet installed? If not, can you snake a hose around to the front? You can buy a splitter for the back faucet so you still have a hose for the back yard. If you have a hose out front, take a few minutes to water before you walk in the door at the end of the day (unless it’s still really sunny when you get home).
POSITA
For the back, have you tried hostas? They grow really easily in pots and look green and full. Ours are severely neglected and still look great.
Libra
Don’t give up! You can do this! Container gardening is kinda tricky, in my experience. For the back can you try the hostas in the ground? Maybe with some netting to keep the critters out until they get established? They also need some sun. How much do they get? Even dappled is okay, but they might just not have enough.
For veggies seeds work best with consistent watering. If you have trouble keeping plants in front watered, you might need to double your efforts while the plants are getting started. Or, for some, you can try getting them started in a sunny window then moving them outside when they’ve got their first real leaves.
Good luck, keep us posted!
lawsuited
You really need to use fertilizer when container planting, because the soil becomes depleted so quickly, and change the soil every season. I’ve grown leafy vegetables and herbs kale, baby romaine, basil, thyme, green onions and cherry tomatoes successfully in pots, but all but the thyme will need some sun. Neither hydrangeas nor hostas will tolerate full shade.
For watering, set an alarm on your phone for a time of day when you are usually at home (like 9:00pm on weekdays).
Anonymous
Try self-watering pots. You can buy them at Lowes/Home Depot, or you can make some by looking at You Tube videos. Basically, the pots have an area for water that you fill and the plant takes the water it needs when it needs it. This is the only way I’ve been able to grow tomatoes in Florida.
ORD
I am also going to suggest the self-watering containers. I get them at gardeners . com.
But I am wondering where you live — it’s late for most vegetables where I live, but I just planted some kale and lettuce seeds for fall harvest. In my shade spots, it’s all hosta & ferns.
401k beneficiaries
Help me think through the downside to listing non-blood beneficiaries for my 401k? Relevant info: mid 30’s, no kids, no SO, parents not in good health/estranged. I have one sister, married, no kids and well off. My default pre-marriage was my sister, and should she have kids some day I would clearly reconsider. For now, I’m thinking of listing my (non-blood) niece and nephew. These are my best friends’ kids, friends for most of my life who I consider family. It really isn’t tons of money, but I know every bit counts for college down the line (they are toddlers now). Are their potential downsides to this that I should be considering though? I know most people just default to next of kin or such.
Anonymous
I think that’s a very nice plan. I don’t see any downside.
Anonymous
I wouldn’t name minors as beneficiaries (it gets complicated), but wouldn’t see a problem otherwise.
anon a mouse
What would you do instead? Create a trust with minors as the beneficiaries?
MNF
Yes – I’d have a will that funnels your residuary estate into a trust for minors and include conduit trust provisions so that the kids can stretch retirement benefits over their lifetimes. Beneficiary designation would then name the trustee of the trust under your will.
401k beneficiaries
That sounds logical. I just don’t have enough of an “estate” to justify a will at this point. No property, no car, no life insurance, minimal savings etc.
Anon in NYC
Yes, naming minors can be complicated and creating a trust is the better way to approach it. That said, you can still name minors as beneficiaries – their parents just need to know that there are certain actions they will need to take within a certain period of time to minimize any downside, and that they should consult a lawyer in the event that this actually takes place.
My beneficiaries are my husband + kid, with parents/siblings as contingent beneficiaries. I think the only downside to non-blood relatives is hurt feelings.
Anonymous
Half goes to my brother and half goes to my best friend of all time. I am in my late 20’s, not close to either of my parents, and decidedly single. I have no paperwork committing this to either of them, but I told them if anything happens to use it to pay off their law/med school loans or send their kids to college. It’s easy enough to change if/when the time comes!
CountC
I am similarly situated – 30s, not married, no kids (an no plans to ever have them), but I do not have any nieces and nephews. My beneficiaries for life and retirement accounts are my sister and then my friends who have agreed to take my animals (percentages according to the relative cost of the animal). Even if, at the time of my death, I don’t have any animals for those people to care for, it makes me happy to know that they would get a little cash at the time of my death. I am all about spreading the wealth.
Anonymous
Charities are a good one too
MNF
+1 Great recipient for retirement benefits because they don’t have to pay the tax!
Zooey
DON’T BUY THIS DRESS!!! I actually bought this dress a few weeks ago and had to return it because the color is HIDEOUS. In the photos it looks like a neutral, cool-toned pale pink but in real life it is an awful cheap-looking salmon color that looks terrible with the gray sash. I had another Asos dress in the same order that I really loved but this one is just fug.
TBK
Interesting article today in FT on dressing the part for a job (link to follow). The Brits are often worse on this front than we are, but I think we’re worse than we’d ever admit (at least they’ll own up to it). I remember reading an article awhile back arguing that interviews in management consulting were really just class tests — “fit” meant are you upper- to upper-middle class. They used consulting as a test case because it can be the door to upward mobility but said that the same principle likely applies in other prestige fields (I think it 110% applies in big law). I read that article around the same time a few articles came out about how hard first gen college students can find navigating college to be. I’m sort of first gen (my mother’s cousins went to college, but not my parents or my aunts or uncles, or first cousins). There were things I definitely didn’t “get” and often didn’t realize I hadn’t gotten until later, even years later. Reducing snobbery is obviously the ideal, but I could honestly see classes in this sort of thing (offered by colleges to seniors? offered by someone else but with colleges directing seniors there who might need it?). It seems so unfair since it’s the kind of thing people just can’t see if they don’t see it. I also see that trying to make everyone homogeneous (and therefore upper-middle class white, and likely male-ish) is not the ultimate solution, but getting people in the door seems like the obvious first step.
TBK
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/5f2a749a-6f88-11e6-9ac1-1055824ca907.html#axzz4J0rhuhNx
Anonymous
Aiii — need to be a subscriber!
TBK
Really? I’m not one and I was able to get to it.
Senior Attorney
You can go here and answer a couple of questions to get access: http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/88296288-5017-11e6-8172-e39ecd3b86fc.html
Canadienne
Class mobility is nearly impossible. Look into Pierre Bordieu and specifically Habitus. Hes a bit of a unicorn in that he successfully changed social classes, then he researched it and wrote extensively about it. I think some of the homogeneity is bad, like people should look how they like. But some of the desired homogeneity is good, I think everyone can benefit from education. Its a tricky rope to balance
Anonymous
I don’t think that class mobility is impossible. My mom grew up with an outhouse. She put herself through college. A lot kids I grew up with who were on free/reduced lunch don’t have kids who get free/reduced lunch, and I don’t think that any of us is superherioc or lucky or whatever. I grew up in a blue-collar NYC suburb (parents in the rural south).
Canadienne
Your anecdata is nice but research states that a middle/upper class child who dropped out of highschool is more likely to become a member of the middle class as an adult than a lower class/poverty child who got a university education. Ingrained class traits are really hard to overcome.
Anonymous
IDK The US is a very diverse place with constant waves of immigrants and much movement around the country (half of my sunbelt state seems to be from Michigan). There aren’t that many upperclass people. I think within the rest of us, a person inclined to do something tends to do that (even if that is living at home with your parents and gaming all day).
“Ingrained class traits” rings wrong to me. Maybe it’s the American in me who sees people as individuals more than as representatives of groups they belong to.
TBK
I read “ingrained class traits” to be experiences and assumptions that reflect the world in which a person grew up. I think it’s overly fatalistic to say “it’s just too hard” and throw up your hands, but I think it’s really harmful to pretend these experiences/assumptions don’t exist. People *can* transcend these things, but it takes effort. I grew up in a working class family but went to private school (on scholarship) with upper-class kids and I think it’s easier to see if you’ve been in different environments. I “pass” as blue blood WASP but that’s largely due to my schools; I picked up the right mannerisms, inflection, conversation habits, dress, etc. And even then I miss things sometimes.
Canadienne
Meritocracy isn’t real especially in the united States. There is only so much a person can do to change their circumstances. You can certainly look the part and get the education but there is almost no way to break into the upper classes without social capital. Social capital is who you know, if you grew up rubbing elbows with the wealthy those connections are very valuable and not something your average Joe can ‘earn’ ever no matter what.
emeralds
My mom had a similar trajectory, growing up working poor in a tiny rural town with, yes, an outhouse. She had teachers who took her under their wings and taught her how to navigate things like going to a sit-down restaurant. She then got a full scholarship to college to be a teacher, joined a sorority where she got polish from her richer/higher-class sisters, torpedoed her accent with a lot of theater training, and then married WAY the F up into an old-money family. She worked throughout college and sewed all of her own clothes because she couldn’t afford to buy anything stylish at the stores. We’re still the only two people on that side of the family who speak what one would call “proper English”–everyone else has an accent that signifies rural, Southern, and lower-class. In conclusion, my mom is a superhero who literally changed the trajectory of her life, my life, and the lives of any future children that I have.
And I think that kind of transition is much harder to pull off now with widening income inequality and more men marrying within their class.
TBK
The marrying within their class thing strikes me as a bit of a canard. Are we sure the women from 1950 who married “up” aren’t the same women who brought themselves up before marrying now? My husband is a lawyer just like me, so we seem to fit that mold. But what would I have been 50 years ago? A legal secretary. Who might have married her boss.
Anonymous
I’m anon @ 12.03. My mom sewed, too. Did my mom have a secret other family we never knew about ???
POSITA
I’ve done plenty of BigLaw interviews and never dinged anyone for their background. Usually career services has prepared folks to the point that the can pass an interview.
IME, candidates tended to get dinged for not stating a reasonable case for the type of law they want to practice and why. (I’m in a niche practice group.) I’ve also dinged people for spelling and typos on their resume and emails. And I’ve dinged a couple for not being enthusiastic enough about biglaw. You have to at least act like you want the job. None of those things have anything to do with race or socioeconomic background. I’m sure it can be a hiring factor, but I think it relates more to whether someone is comfortable staying at a firm long term. My white shoe firm has lost several of its diverse associates (my friends) for fit reasons.
Anonymous
Maybe, just possibly, casual racism is driving out diverse associates? Because “fit” is code for “white enough for us?”
TBK
Ding ding ding ding ding! I have a friend who was non-offered at the end of the summer because of “fit.” Um, in that case “fit” meant “brown.” That was especially egregious, but I think the point is that no one is sitting there thinking “I don’t like how non-white that person is” or “eww, poor person.” They’re just thinking “she’s so reserved — why doesn’t she ever join in the conversations? She must not like us.” No, it’s because the conversation is about which international airport has the best food and she’s never even gotten a passport, and no one in her family has ever had a passport. Or it’s about something that is super white but the people talking about it don’t realize it (I’m super white so I have trouble coming up with an example here, but I know there are lots of these things.).
Anonymous
I’m white but first generation American/college/grad school and I find this to be especially true in my BigLaw practice when people are talking about the vacations they take, the people they know, the restaurants they eat at, etc. It’s really hard to contribute to a conversation about everyone’s mutual friend “Old Family Ties Important Guy” when you’ve never even heard of him before.
Anonymous
Exactly!
POSITA
If it wasn’t clear, that was partially what I meant by fit. There are many things wrapped up in that term, including socioeconomic background, choice of law school, gender, LGBQT, and race.
I miss my diverse friends who have left.
Anonymous
I work in a BigLaw firm that recruits a lot locally in each office (so, in Boston, that might include Harvard, but mainly at schools with good football programs). We have one Harvard person. She cannot participate in SEC v ACC discussions at all. And does not have a good local alumni network.
Law is crazy — usually that is such the better school to be from! I commend her for staying though.
Anonymous
+1 million to Anon at 11:35. “Fit” is code for “you don’t look/sound/behave exactly like us” and other similar things. I’ve seen it used to sanction discrimination against minorities, women, LGBT people, people who grew up poor, etc. It’s often not conscious, as TBK pointed out. People don’t think “We don’t want a black person [or a woman or a gay man or whatever] at this firm.” But they think the person is a good fit because they couldn’t “connect” with them, without stopping to think about the fact that maybe race/gender/socioeconomic status, etc, played a big part in why they couldn’t connect.
Anonymous
*they think the person is NOT a good fit, I meant
XX
+1
I’ve been distanced from a client because of “fit.” The firm is actively looking for candidates who “fit” better with that client. Funny, the only difference between me and the one they evaluated recently is that he’s conservative, male, and wrapped up in good old boy culture (daddy is a fairly well-known conservative politician). It’s particularly gross because we even have a bunch of similar interests, which is relevant because those interests are related to our practice group, and lots of individuals at Client Corp are into those things. What with common interests being a great way to connect and all……..
Anon in Biglaw
Yep. I recently interviewed a candidate whose law school and background isn’t the usual ivy league resume. I saw a partner who interviewed the candidate as well at a social event and asked about what they thought of the candidate. Turns out the [white] partners were concerned about a candidate’s “fit” or lack of polish. The candidate was a hispanic female. We have tons of non-polished white males at the firm that were given a chance (which I pointed out to one of the hiring partners, giving specific examples of associates with non-traditional backgrounds who are rockstars) in the past, so now I wonder if the only difference was that the interview candidate was hispanic and female and not white and male.
TBK
Maybe you don’t ding people, but I don’t know what the point of the meal interview is if it’s not to gauge class. (All of my callbacks included 3-4 interviews at the firm plus lunch with 2-3 associates.) No one will say this. And I’m sure no one believes this is what they’re doing. But being at ease in a fancy restaurant, knowing to order the mid-point item and not trying to go for the cheapest or just an appetizer because it’s the cheapest (i.e., that you shouldn’t be thinking about cost, but you should still think about cost because the lobster isn’t appropriate, but really you shouldn’t be acting like you’re thinking of cost, but still don’t just get the side salad), and not getting intimidated by the place setting, etc. JD Vance in his new book Hillbilly Elegy has a great description of how just a meal like this totally threw him off in ways that even most middle-middle class people wouldn’t imagine. Of course no one present thinks they’re reacting to the person’s class; they just think the person is “weird”.
Anonymous
I loved that book. I didn’t feel like as much of an outsider as he did, but I definitely did not fit when I started in Big Law. Despite my privileged, upper-middle class background and highly educated parents (both PhDs) I knew nothing about business meals or how to act in a business setting and my parents were pretty clueless too. I really think law and MBA schools should teach this stuff.
Anonymous
I didn’t read that book, but I love the reviews of that book that I read. [Sigh: no time.]
Anywho, when I dine with students / summer associates, I pick the restaurant. I know the menu pretty well (so I know there are veg-halal-kosher options though not vegan ones). I will also comment as we review the menu that X and Y are good here, and possibly Z if it seems that there is pausing / hesitation. I also will ask a lot of random question in an interview, not just which country club their parents go to (which I’ve heard — I think it was asked to someone who had parents working at the club who were probably excluded at one point from belonging to it).
Signed,
first-gen biglaw partner
Anonymous
One thing that rang so true in that book was the disdain for state U schools and the military. I went to NYU for law school and cannot say how strongly how both bothered me and how pervasive and unchallenged those attitudes are (and yet, no one says “check your first amendment privilege and thank a service member or a veteran”).
POSITA
IME, career services gives out a primer on how to handle callback lunches. The only folks who really fail these are those who are unable to follow instructions or too pompous to take the advice.
Anonymous
My top 20 law school didn’t give us anything specific about lunches and in general the career services people were less than worthless.
Anonymous
In my law school, trailing spouses were routinely put in career services. Which meant no services.
Anonymous
Our career services interview advice was all focused on substantive stuff like how you should answer certain common questions and what were good questions to ask. It wasn’t bad advice necessarily, but it didn’t prepare you for interview meals. I think when I was a 2L, I went on 8 callback interviews. Seven of them included a meal and one didn’t – guess which one was my only offer?
ELaw
+1
I grew up in a middle class family, plenty of privilege to go around. But we didn’t eat out much, and there are still things about restaurant eating that I think of as bizarre tests of class. Why so many utensils, plats, and glasses? And, cloth napkins. What is the deal with cloth napkins? Are they to clean your hands if needed? But then you’re supposed to put a dirty napkin back in your lap? I use them when eating at a restaurant where they’re provided but I don’t understand their purpose other than to prove to everyone that you can participate properly in the social ritual of using them.
Alanna of Trebond
Oh man I hated that book. Also, at my (very white shoe firm), we take people to the Mexican restaurant across the street for the interview lunch…where we eat quesadillas with our hands. :-)
Anonymous
IMO law school career services do not seem to prepare people for interviews. Especially the ones who are qualified but need some surface polish. They seem to liase with law firms and the like, but aren’t sociologists.
My law school had a lot of first-generation people do crazy things — do not wear a hat to a law firm’s reception unless it is required for religious reasons! Also: going to church clothes are “nice” clothes, but not appropriate for interviews. Maybe people thing that b/c of school rank, firms are dying to hire, but they didn’t seem to hire these people or even call them back even if they were on law review.
Anon
After 10 yrs in biglaw — this says it all:
“None of those things have anything to do with race or socioeconomic background. I’m sure it can be a hiring factor, but I think it relates more to whether someone is comfortable staying at a firm long term. My white shoe firm has lost several of its diverse associates (my friends) for fit reasons.”
Um — many people of color DO want to stay. I did. But guess what. It was decided for me after a while that the “fit” wasn’t there. I guess there was plenty of fit when I was toiling away 70 hrs/wk for 8 yrs and then all of a sudden someone was worried about whether I was “comfortable staying a firm long term.” Um — yeah. That must be it. Or maybe I was pushed out when they realized they wanted client conference rooms to look a certain way and having already made a few female partners in the last few yrs, they didn’t want to be the firm with female white partners AND female of color partners –that’s just too much diversity right there and the firm won’t “win anymore” if it looks like that.
Anonymous
Yes, this.
Anon
I find it so ridiculously condescending when firms (partners and senior associates all of whom look a certain way) say — diverse associates leave bc they don’t feel comfortable or for fit reasons. BS. Maybe consider that either consciously or subconsciously, you assign diverse associates (at least at my old firm where I spent 7 yrs) the worst matters — the ones no one wants; the ones that won’t move your career forward; the ones with the screamer partners; the ones that don’t get you exposure to the people who will decide on partnership. And you do it time and time again and then when the person leaves — oh — it was fit. And if they dare complain while they are there, you give them the attitude of — you should feel LUCKY to be here and should be grateful we kept you for 7 yrs, what more do you want? Guess what many (most?) diverse associates are qualified on paper to be at the firm. You didn’t do me a favor by hiring me — I had the ivy undergrad; ivy law, top 10%; law review; working 2400 hrs/yr etc. so what did I want — the same thing everyone else wants?!
Oh but apparently I just wasn’t “comfortable.”
anon2
This x1000. I left biglaw but my spouse is a junior partner at a biglaw shop (we are both people of color). This experience is absolutely this – even though he made it to junior partner, getting any higher seems literally impossible due to this type of environment.
Anonymous
I’m in consulting and I’ve dinged people for ‘fit’.
Fit reasons were:
– more cut throat than fits into our firm
– less likely to get involved in internal initiatives
– dull / creepy to talk to (this is regardless of socio-ecomonic background or race… Some people just are not engaging)
– are blatantly not interested in effort/time needed for consulting
Lyssa
This is not exactly on point, but I had a high school English teacher who would sometimes make us do mock interviews as class exercises. He admitted that it was a weird thing to do in English class, but said “where else do you get the chance to do these things?” After the mock interviews, he would discuss things that he thought an employer would take into account, like handshakes and presentation (I specifically recall him actually mentioning smell – as in, an employer would take into account that the person didn’t smell like cig smoke or BO), which, again, a little weird, but probably a good lesson. I think that it was very helpful.
I’ve long said that high school should include some sort of “Adult Living” class that would include this sort of thing, along with a lot of other things that adults are just sort of expected to pick up and know but often don’t.
Anonymous
We had an adulting class in high school but it was more focused on financial stuff. I remember it covered balancing a checkbook and how to use credit cards responsibly. Most of my high school was four-year college-bound so I and most of my peers would have tuned out anything about interviewing, knowing it was so far away. I definitely think colleges and professional schools should emphasize interview skills a lot more though, and it probably has a place in high school classes aimed at those that aren’t going to college.
Closet Redux
What are some examples of the things you didn’t “get” as a first gen college student? I am a host-family match for a first-gen student and would love to be helpful in this regard. The program is more about having a place to go for family dinner or to celebrate short holidays when the student can’t go home, but if I can be helpful in terms of dinner etiquette or cocktail conversation, etc. I totally want to be.
Anonymous
Maybe discuss whether he/she would like to go to dinner at a fancy steakhouse (I typed stakehouse at first, so true!) and see if anything is volunteered: been there before / afraid of all those forks / etc. Maybe volunteer that you go there for lunch, sometimes in recruiting. It’s like a trial run for them. Same with work/interview appropriate clothes. And ask re summer plans / resume once it is spring semester.
Anononope
Oh YES to a steak/stakehouse. I am in my mid-30s, have been working in law forever, and I don’t know how to order at a steakhouse. I had to go to an important meeting/dinner at steakhouse in the midwest recently and I was so glad the menu was online: I conferred in advance with my friends over exactly what and how to order. Otherwise I would’ve been completely lost.
Anon
I’d say when they’re at your home — exposure to LOTS of different kinds of foods. Don’t force them to eat it, but have it available so they can try it — esp. things like fish; ethnic foods from ethnicities besides their own etc; various kinds of salads etc. I grew up eating pretty much the same thing, over and over. So going to fancy restaurants as a NYC summer associate and not knowing what half the stuff on the menu was and having to just choke it down — not fun. It’ll be easier on them if they’ll at least experienced/heard of certain foods once/twice before they hit their professional lives.
The other thing I see in interviewees is attire, but I don’t see how you can comment on that being that you are in a dinner match group. Like guys wearing dress shirts with ties that are 2-3 sizes too big — which is super apparent at the collar; you can shop on the cheap, even at Walmart and get the right sized shirt to make it look like you grew up wearing button downs.
Lyssa
Not the OP, but I was a first gen college student. I don’t have much on the dinner/etiquette stuff – that’s not something that I had a problem with. But I really wish that I had had a better understanding of trying to make network, use advisers and other school resources, and go out and make connections in the field that I was interested in, like interning and things like that. I only ever knew to go out and get jobs to make some cash, and just sort of thought that the next steps would fall into place, and then suddenly, I was out of college and had no idea what to do next. I didn’t know how to be proactive in doing things beyond just showing up for class and doing the work. So, I would definitely urge inexperienced students to do that sort of thing early.
TBK
THIS! Yes, this was what I missed. I never went to a professor’s office hours, not once. I thought you went because you didn’t understand the material. It never occurred to me that you might go to chitchat and develop a relationship with the professor (and therefore have high-quality references in your pocket down the line). I didn’t have trouble getting into law school, and I wound up with lots of great references from the attorneys I worked with as a legal assistant after college, but if I’d gone straight through, I wouldn’t have had the kind of substantive references I needed, even though I had great grades.
I also didn’t realize that career services could help with summer jobs, or that summer jobs might be anything other than scooping ice cream. When a second cousin had a summer job in a finance firm and earned more than $1,000/wk, I was floored. I had no idea such jobs existed or how to get them. It didn’t occur to me to do something like get an unpaid internship for part of the week to make connections and get good experience, and then wait tables in the evening or something. It was all about getting the college degree. My family understood that a degree was important, that good grades were important, and they were impressed by schools that were high on the US News list (which, for all its flaws – and there are many — it does help students who are otherwise clueless about schools have some feel for which will be viewed as more prestigious than others). But it never occurred to any of us that anything might be needed beyond the degree. It was like it was a magic ticket.
I also didn’t do a good job of applying to colleges, prepping for the SATs, or doing college interviews. I said a lot of the wrong things, didn’t know how to present myself in the best light, and figured the SAT was meant to be a test of what I knew, not that there was any kind of gamesmanship behind it.
Anononope
This is great advice, and also something I also missed out on. Was shocked when great grades at a great school didn’t get me very far without a network.
MissIves
Wow. Honestly, I’m not even sure I realized how much of this I missed as opportunities at school. I fell into retail and have moved into retail management, etc, and done quite well, but who knows what the road not taken would have looked like if I engaged more at school and understood those things at the time…
Suburban
If you golf-take him or her. I don’t even have a handicap but grew up around the sport. I can’t tell you how many old white guy interviewers light up you can talk about golf.
Anon
Living in DC now. Would it be bizarre to go up to NYC to see my primary care dr there for a physical?
Haven’t been feeling great — anxious/depressed; stomach issues; and generally run down. Likely it’s just one of those stress things, but I’m also realizing that I haven’t had a physical in 3+ yrs and should know if I’m anemic or something like that and would like to talk to someone openly about how I’m feeling (which is hard enough for me with a doctor). I have had a heck of a time getting care in DC in the yr I’ve been here. So hard to find doctors that are taking new patients — if they’re seeing new people at all, seems like most practices send you off to a NP or at most a dr. who graduated residency 2 months ago (including things like One Medical).
I tend to like female MDs in their upper 30s/40s — women who are easy to talk to; good bedside manner etc. Since I already hate going to doctors — I find it easier if I can open up. I had such an MD in NYC. I know I need someone in DC eventually but would it be totally bizarre if I called her office, scheduled something, and took a day trip up there? Seems like a waste of time and money but I don’t know . . . . (Will take DC doctor recs if you have them too.)
Anonymous
Not weird. I like going to doctors I know. Finding a new doctor can be such a hassle.
Anonymous
Just as an anecdote my mom is a doctor in NYC and patients who have moved to Boston or DC or similar come back to see her all the time, so I don’t find it odd.
anon
Will your insurance cover this visit (likely different provider networks since these are different states)?
FWIW, I’ve had good experiences with both NPs and new doctors, especially in group practices and for routine care.
Anonymous
Have you asked your friends for local recs?
I…. wouldn’t go see your NYC doc now for the complaints you mention. This is because you will need follow up appointments and possible tests and referrals after is visit. Then, what are you going to do? Return to NYC for those?
It sounds like you are quite anxious now, so your desire for familiarity is reasonable. But you have but off finding a doc for awhile and now’s the time to find one.
Think of Your local friends that have good judgment and you respect, and ask them who they see. When I move, I actually ask older women I work with, rather than friends. Hopefully you will get suggestions on this thread too. If need be, call your old doc and ask if whe has any colleagues in DC she can recommend.
And remember, even if there isn’t an appointment next week, call back a couple times a week and ask if there have been any cancellations. You can often get in sooner.
Meanwhile, try to get outside for a brisk walk in the sun everyday.. Especially if work is stressful. Try to get regular sleep, and taper down alcohol use at night to be sure it is good quality sleep. Search online for mindfulness videos/audio guides and learn the basic, breathing technique. Takes 2 minutes. And then use it…. First thing in the morning, last thing at night, and during the day if things seem spiraling,
It will get better.
Anonymous
Totally fine. Lived in DC for six years and my husband kept his NY doctor the entire time. They had a good rapport and it was easier to get him on the train to NY for an appointment than to try to convince him to see someone new. Honestly, if he hadn’t continued to see that doctor, I think he would’ve stopped going altogether.
a.k.
Not strange to go to a doctor you know, but what if you have a condition that requires multiple trips? Are you in a position to travel there regularly?
Depending on where you are in DC, I can recommend Anjula Agrawal near Sibley. She’s exactly what you are looking for.
You also can call your insurance company and ask for female docs accepting new patients with graduation years in a range — you’d still need to do some trial and error, but you’d be starting with a narrower list.
Anonymous
I’d suck it up and go to a DC Doctor. An NP can diagnose you with stress and anxiety, refer you to therapy, and do a physical to rule anything else out just fine. These aren’t zebra problems but you may need follow up visits.
Anon
OP here — I know I need a dr. in DC eventually. Just don’t want to feel like I’m getting the run around or am dealing with someone inexperienced, while I already don’t feel fantastic. My view on how I’d handle it — go to the NYC dr; hopefully it’s nothing – just physical/blood work/EKG etc. and nothing further to do. I feel like I’d clarify to the NYC dr. that I live in DC now (i.e. not lie about it – not that I can, I think they have your address on file) so if there’s anything that needs follow up, I’d need to coordinate with a dr. there locally BUT I’m seeing her bc I trust her judgment in the first instance re follow ups/what to do etc.
Just don’t know if that’s too “complicated”/annoying for a PCP (though if anyone is not going to be annoyed it’s her, given her beside manner). I know a guy who is a specialist at UPenn (cardiology) and he’s older and well respected and has patients come from other cities all the time — so I know at the high end specialist level, they will coordinate care in another city and not give it a second thought.
As for insurance — she is covered under by current plan; so it’s really expenditure on train tix and cabs around NYC/to the train station in DC. Again – -could be a waste of time/money. Maybe I should hold this option in my back pocket . . . esp. since she is covered by my insurance so it’s not like it would be hundreds out of pocket for a physical.
Anonymous
So, no… it is not typical to go back to NYC and it will be tricky for you for treatment/follow-up. This is very different from traveling out of state to see a specialist, who then mails his note and recs to the local PCP who. Onions in the interim. Most people only do that because specialists of high caliber are not available locally.
But it sounds like you want to do it regardless. So go for it, just to have her reassurance, if nothing else. Just realize she will have trouble treating you or prescribing any meds if you don’t have follow-up arranged. You can’t send someone out on new anti-anxiety meds without follow-up.
So do what you should too. Also make an appointment to see with a local PCP to see after you see old doc. Have old doc mail her note / recs to new doc to smooth the transition.
Anon
OP here — not necessarily committed to this idea, as it just occurred to me last night. But I think I’m “comfortable” knowing that she is in network and at most it’s a few train tix to get me to see someone I trust. I think it may end up being a secondary option if more time goes by and I can’t get in with someone in DC that I actually connect with/trust.
Anonymous
Autocorrect!
No PCP with onions. PCP follows up on specialist recs if needed.
Anonymous
That seems really difficult.
For what it’s worth, I go to One Medical and love them.
Anon2
I know people (including DH) who have more than one PCP and I think this falls in that category. I don’t think it’s odd or bad at all — just how you want to do things. They tend to have one that is their TRUSTED PCP. Someone they’ll see once a yr for a physical etc – just to make sure everything is ok, talk about big picture stuff. Often that is someone in a prior city. Then they have another one locally that they’ll see if/when they need something quick (like a script for a sinus infection or something) or their main PCP wants them to do something requiring follow up visits.
We live in Boston now, but DH kept his PCP in NYC. He’s there a few times a yr on business and we still tend to go spend a weekend there every 12-18 months, so if you plan, it’s not that hard to spend a weekend in NYC and see the dr. first thing Monday morning before heading back; or be in NYC Monday-Thurs. for work and sneak away in the middle of that trip or late Thursday when your colleagues are flying back to do a drs. appt. and be on a later flight back. It can be done. Honestly I think too many people just ignore medical care altogether. I say it’s better to get care in a non traditional fashion, than to just not go at all.
Anonymous
Dr. Megha Mendriatta at Comprehensive Primary Care U Street is who I see. I think she’s in her mid-30s – she has great bedside manner, but also doesn’t shit around. And I like that they are flexible with scheduling and can usually get me in with very litle notice.
Anon
I’m a proponent of — do what you need to do RIGHT NOW to feel better. It doesn’t need to be forever. If right now you can’t find someone in DC you like but can get an NYC appointment, would rather talk to that doctor, and are fine spending a few hundred bucks on yourself for travel — do it. Hopefully it’s a one and done visit anyway. If it isn’t — then you talk to her about how to handle moving forward — so you won’t have to figure it out all on your own.
THEN when you’re up to it down the road, find someone in DC who fits your criteria and get in with them to establish care.
DC doc
Greenway Family Medical Practice Dr. Clark
bridget
I once traveled eight states away to see a specialist I had last seen seven years prior. So, no.
Carrots
Tips/tricks to staying focused and on task at work? I’ve managed to get away in the recent past with this terrible habit of breaking focus for a chunk of time (that I’m not willing to put a number to :-/) and then rushing around to get things down, but my co-worker’s last day is tomorrow and we’re going from 3 to 2 FT people, so I gotta really start to buckle down and focus on all the different projects I have. I already have two to-do lists (one that is long-term and the other that is broken down by week).
New Anon
Lookmup the Pomodoro Technique
Anonymous4
Timeblocking works well for me.
Nanny questions
If your nanny has a credit card that you provide, would you provide the details of the set up? I’ve heard everything from refillable debit card totally separate from anything to just adding the nanny on as a user to one’s regular account.
My husband and I both use a credit card linked to our Costco account for everything, but our nanny does a lot of our shopping for us. We’d like to add our nanny so she can use the card and the Costco membership , we can get the points and we don’t have to check any new accounts we’re not checking anyways. What’s the downside here? Obviously we already trust her with something much more important than a credit card (our kids!) but there’s some exposure here, no? My mom has me on some of her accounts simply for ease of me taking over should she become incapacitated but now her stuff shows up on my credit check and when I refinanced my house, there was some weird extra step required because of this.
Impatient
As someone who used to work for a credit card company, I would have no issue giving the nanny a card and listing her as an authorized user. There’s a difference between adding an authorized user versus a joint account. If you’re adding a nanny as an AU, it’s no biggie provided that you trust her to use the card (which you do) and it might show up on her credit report, but there’s an indicator that shows she’s just an AU and not legally responsible for the card.
I obviously don’t know what happened with your mom and your refi and all, but if you somehow showed up as joint on her CCards, that means that technically you are also legally responsible for the card if needed. As such, they may have just needed a note from your mom that said that it was her card not yours, etc.
Also- PSA. If you and your spouse share a credit card, check to see if it is joint or if you are just on as an AU. When working for the credit card company, I would frequently talk to spouses who had assumed the card was joint but had in fact been just an AU and not legally responsible for the card for 20+ years. When their spouse passed away and the deceased’s CCard was turned off (done to prevent fraud), they then technically had no credit (often these people had paid off mortgages, no car loans, etc.). We always did our absolute best to make sure we minimized inconveniences, but this is why my husband and I each have an individual card in our own name with the other as an AU on it.
Anon
We did this for our long-time nanny. It was getting to be such a hassle to remember to leave cash or reimburse each little expense.
We ended up getting another card in her name on our AmEx account. We keep a very low limit on her card. So far we haven’t run into any issues on it.
Anonymous
Sounds fine. But I think Costco only allows two cards on the account, and she is required to have her own card/number/pix on the card. So if you give one to her, you or your husband will have to give up yours.
This is how it works at our Costco.
Nice thing about Costco cards is since each person has their own number, they statement shows who billed what each month.
I also keep a lower credit max on all credit cards used online or shared, to decrease potential problems when the numbers get stolen. The chance of this increases as you increase users.
Anon
This model looks tired.
CountC
I’m with her.
Anon
Me too. I could use a nap.
Solo church goer?
I’m in my early twenties and I would like to go to church regularly. I found a congregation in my city in the same faith I was raised. I’m used to church being a family activity but I’m single and I don’t have any friends of my religion. Is it weird to go by myself?
I’m going to go regardless if it is… I’m pretty independent and I’ve gone by myself a few times to other churches and it was never a big deal but now I’m intending to go regularly and be more active in a singular congregation. So I guess I’m more looking for some encouragement or personal stories from the hive?
Anonymous
I do all the time! I don’t think anyone thinks it is weird. Churches are always super excited to get new people (unless we are talking massive big city cathedral service where you’ll just blend into the crowd).
Anonymous
+ 1
Anon
Why would it be weird?? I know families where only 1 person is religious so they go by themselves — even though they have a family. They’re not judging why you’re attending alone, they’re just happy you’re attending. If you feel weird not knowing anyone — you can strike up a convo before/after with people in attendance and after a few weeks of seeing the same people, you’ll feel like you “know” them a bit. Or you can literally walk into the service, sit thru that, and leave the second it ends. Whatever is comfortable.
Nati
Definitely not! It’s likely people will come say hello and soon you will not feel like you’re going alone.
Wildkitten
I am in the same boat. What city are you in?
emma
Not the OP, but also in the same boat – WK, I think I remember that you live in the Bay Area? Do you go to a particular denomination?
Wildkitten
UCC but I’m not in the bay, though I do love burritos!
Enginerd
I’m in the same boat. I go to church solo, and I actually find it quite liberating and confidence-boosting. It’s a confirmation to myself that I can do things solo (I’m often a follower, not a planner, when it comes to social events). I also like that it means I’m going to church for ME and my faith, not because my family is going and that’s just what we do. I’m going because I actually want to, even when no one is holding me accountable. And I love that feeling. Also, it means I can stay all the way to the end, without my parents trying to leave in the middle of the last song to get out of the parking lot faster. ;)
Anon
I think it can vary by the denomination and individual church as well. I’d never consider it odd at a Catholic Mass, a good number of people come by themselves. But I can see with a church directed at younger families in one of those more hip styles might have fewer single people.
If it helps, prior to my divorce I went to mass weekly by myself and never once felt out of place.
T
Yes, Anon. That’s what I was getting at. I’ve been comfortable in the past going to large services. But now I’d like to return to my own faith which is a bit more niche and this congregation is more family oriented.
Anon
Did this for 18 months while living in a busy downtown city alone! I loved it. Yes it felt liberating and also, the greeters are usually super nice and when they or really anyone strikes up convo if you mention “I’m new” most will go out of their way to introduce you to others, sit by you or even invite you to events. Also joining a small group can be helpful if you want to meet people or network. Church is one place you can go alone and almost instantly make friends! Or at the very least be welcomed!
Coach Laura
Don’t a lot of churches have “singles” groups or “young adult club activities”? Mine does.
Nati
I’ve always heard talk of this, but none of my churches in Toronto or Ottawa have had them. Both Catholic and Anglican I’ve checked out in both cities.
Wildkitten
Yeah churches have to be a certain size with a certain number of young people to sustain those things.
Anonymous4
Many churches now have young adult and/or singles groups. It is very common to see single young adults in our church, as well as single parents. When I was single, I found it easier to attend solo in a slightly larger church. In small churches I often felt like I stuck out.
T
Thank you, everyone! When I said “weird” I really meant I felt awkward because I’m a bit shy and I like having the buffer of others around me in a social scenario such as this. But thank you for the encouragement. I am looking forward to going this Sunday!
pelvic floor pt, anyone?
My PT thinks I may need to be referred for pelvic floor PT. Experiences? Anecdotes? It sounds a little…invasive…
Anon for this
It’s invasive and super uncomfortable this first couple of times, but you get used to it. There are multiple types, but at the place I went, they inserted this device and then it hooked up to a computer while I did kegels. Other than insertion and removal of the device, that type of therapy wasn’t very invasive (and no more so than an ob-gyn visit) and was surprisingly high-tech. There was another part that I went to that was much more invasive, therapist working on the muscle and I found that super uncomfortable, but I think it helped. Good luck! It’s an awkward thing to do, but I think it helped.
Anonymous
I’ve known of several people who have done this, with good results. Not invasive for most folks. It is exercises to strengthen muscles. If it is for pain issues and is being done at a more experimental clinic (like that famous guy at Stanford) it may be more involved, so I can’t speak to that except to say it can be quite successful.
So anon
I had a pelvic floor problem that made gardening very uncomfortable, because the muscle would go into spasm anytime anything was inserted. I had a doctor recommend a type of DIY pelvic floor therapy with a series of very small to regular gardening tool sized dilators that I would work up to. It trained the muscle not to spasm. It was a weird and uncomfortable process, but it helped. Gardening is still painful sometimes, but things have gotten much much better. I’m sure if I had actually gone to a real pelvic floor PT it would have been a faster and easier process.
Anon
Yep, I went to pelvic floor PT for almost a year (twice a week for some months!). Find someone really good who specializes in this type of work, and you’ll get comfortable with it. After a few sessions it really wasn’t a big deal (and I was getting the most invasive internal type of PT – trigger points, nerve work, etc.) My PT and I would chitchat about other stuff while she worked on me. My PT does a lot of post-partum work, and their office exclusively does pelvic floor PT for women.
If you’re in SF I have a great PT recommendation for you.
Another R
Did this after having each of my children. Sure it’s invasive, but after having kids I’m used to invasive exams like that. Regardless, it’s worth it! The PTs who specialize in women’s health know it’s invasive and in my experience are understanding, accommodating and reassuring.
If you have friends who are new moms, they might be a good source for recommendations of who to see. Sure some try to DIY PT or ignore the problems but you really want a PT who specializes in this. Even stuff OBs have told me ran contrary PT specialists have suggested.
freestanding tub
We are looking for a freestanding tub for a new bathroom. Anyone purchase from Signature Hardware? They seem to have a lot of decently priced options, but not sure about quality or service? Or any specific reqs on tubs – we have about 70 inches, and would like something deep with a fairly classic shape, not too modern.
Senior Attorney
I got this one from Signature Hardware and was very happy with it: http://www.signaturehardware.com/bathroom/bathtubs/ralston-cast-iron-dual-clawfoot-tub-on-imperial-feet.html
Senior Attorney
Oh, and I had the exterior painted silver and it turned out great!
Boden Beginner
Does Boden have regular 30-40% off sales? I haven’t shopped there (I’ve only heard of it through this blog). I love a lot of their styles, but they’re just a bit out of my usual price range. I tend to shop at the Ann Taylor/J Crew/WHBM level, but always on sale, I never pay full price. I do see a clearance section on Boden. But can I expect a 30-40% off regular price type of sale at some point?
Also, exact same question, but for MMLaFleur. Do they ever have sales?
Wildkitten
MMLF – no.
Boden Vet
With Boden 30-40% sales are rare, maybe a few times a year (other than things in clearance, which IMO isn’t all that much of a bargain typically). More normal is 10-20% and I would go out on a limb to say that 20% isn’t even once a month.
If you get on their mailing list they will send you coupons from time to time, and you may get invited to sample sales in your area (if you are in the NE, they do sales in the Philly area as their distribution center is in Pittston, near Scranton and have an outlet in downtown Pittston). I’ve seen them listed in Boston, Hershey, Lancaster, NYC, Pittsburgh, and the Philly Suburbs (Oaks). Not sure about the rest of the country.
If you use Chrome and download the Honey extension they find successful sale codes from time to time. The sales are never going to get the prices super low (under $100 is rare for most dresses), but if you make it to a sample sale or an outlet dresses are $40 and you can clean up.
Boden Beginner
Thank you for the info!
a tale of two houses
Ladies,
Which house would you pick? We are looking at two houses, next door to each other, built by the same builder. They are priced the same. Obviously on a lot of points they are mostly the same (same neighborhood and commute because they are next door to each other) and look similar enough because same builder. The houses even have a similar shape (both brick, same shape), but slightly different, as explained below. Their lots are virtually identical in size and shape as well, so this is really about the house. Both houses are brand new, so while the builder will do small things like paint, they won’t be replacing countertops or anything.
House 1: slightly bigger footprint (literally a foot wider), 4 bedrooms, 3 baths, has the nicer exterior color, has a slightly wider garage (so like 2 car plus a little more room on the sides). Downsides: I don’t like the finishes as much- I like the countertops enough but don’t love them and wouldn’t have picked them for myself. In terms of neighbors, on one side is House #2 below, but on the other side is a run-down old house that will certainly be torn down in the next few years and some of the windows line up such that you are looking in and it’s a hoarder’s house.
House 2: a foot less wide, has one more bed and bath (5 bedrooms, 4 baths), has an nice enough exterior but between the two we like #1’s exterior), has a normal sized 2-car garage. On the plus side: it has nicer finishes — stuff I love and would pick today (kitchen countertops, bathrooms, flooring more to our taste, slightly nicer appliances). Has a bigger master bath. Despite an extra bedroom upstairs, none of them feel tight. Also has beautiful wainscoting throughout, whereas the other one doesn’t. Both houses have almost identical living rooms but this one has two windows sort of closer together which makes TV placement a little more awkward but not impossible (the other house has them further apart, making for a more natural living room in the middle between them). Because this has an extra bedroom upstairs, the staircase isn’t as ‘open’ feeling as the other one, which has a big landing. Neighboring house on the other side is in the process of being finished to look like these, so no hoarder and the windows don’t look into each other.
They are the same price, so I am leaning towards #2 because I like the finishes better (as both houses are brand new, we aren’t going to make those changes) and for the same price why not get an extra bedroom and bath? And because it is new, why not get the finishes you really love instead of ones that are good enough? Husband leaning a smidge towards #1 because it is slightly wider (by a foot), we like the exterior a little more, and like the staircase feeling more open (because there is one less bedroom). He didn’t notice the finishes, but that’s typical for us.
Obviously, there is no perfect house and I’m sure if there were only one of these houses on the market, we would love it, but since there are two, you compare and we can’t decide which we like more. Which would you pick?
Wildkitten
You’ll spend more time inside your house than standing outside looking at it. Go with the house you want.
Anonymous
I would pick #2 and the neighboring house issue is enough to convince me, since all other things are more or less equal. With House #1 you just don’t know what you’re going to get and how long construction will take place and in the meantime your neighbors are less than ideal.
Anonymous
#2 definitely. Inside matters so much more than outside. I’m not in love with the exterior of our house and it doesn’t bother me at all. Our kitchen really bothered me until we remodeled and I chose the finishes and got new appliances. I also think an extra bedroom is HUGE, especially if you want to have kid(s). We have five and coming from years of 1 bed apartment living we kept saying “What are we doing to do with all these rooms!?!?!” but they got cannibalized soooo quickly (master bed, guest bed, my office, his office, TV room) and now that we’re expecting we’re finishing the basement so we can put the TV room down there and make the fifth bed a nursery.
Maddie Ross
I would pick #2. The hoarder house sounds less than appealing. And also like the kind of house that someone will not vacate quickly or easily, even when they could sell for a good profit. Plus if torn down, you’re living next door to construction for several months. Between all of that, the better interior finishes (which you will see and use more than exterior ones) and the extra bedroom and bath, I would definitely go for that.
Impatient
As someone who moved next to a ‘Oh, I’m sure this house will definitely be sold and torn down/totally renovated in the very near future’ house that we now know will be occupied and in its falling-down shape indefinitely, I’d go with house #2.
Also, for resale 1 more BR makes it HUGELY more desirable. They also fill up quickly! With the extra BR, there’s no deciding ‘Guest Room or Office’, you can have both. One foot of width is also so little- yeah, definitely go with the one you like better.
Anonymous
House #2 — five bedrooms would be really handy so many options – like 2 kids + home office + guest room, or 3 kids + guest room or 2 kids + guest room + upstairs playroom.
Avoid the hoarder situation – definite mice/rats/bugs concerns and House #1 gives you a bit of a buffer.
Meg March
#2. As long as the staircase is still comfortably sized, it’s not like you’ll be spending lots of time on the landing/on the stairs. I also think the extra bedroom is a plus, provided the rooms are all still spacious enough. You can turn it into a home office or guest room or home gym or hobby room or whatever. Like Anon, the neighboring house issue is the concern here for me. You don’t know how long the hoarders will be there, you don’t know how long construction will take.
Anonymous
To add to your last sentence, you also don’t know what could go up in place of the hoarder house if it is indeed torn down. In my area, the trend is to tear down a normal size house and put up an enormous one in its place–pretty close to being zero-lot line. Also, most of the older houses are single story or the second story is a converted attic so low-profile, whereas the new builds are two full stories that tower over everything.
I know people who live next to a teardown-potential house and are obsessive about staying on good terms with the owner. They want first crack to buy it if it ever goes on sale so they can control the teardown/rebuild themselves (and then resell and have some control over what offer they accept).
Seems like a lot less stress to move in between two houses that you’d hope are a long ways’ off from being teardown-worthy.
Anonymous
Definitely #2.
Anonymous
House 2. Extra bedroom adds actual value.
Cat
#2.
Big open staircase also = extra heating/cooling money for unusable space.
Bedrooms fill up quickly and as others have said, ability to have an office room / gym / kid playroom etc. would be fantastic.
Don’t count your chickens on unsightly hoarder house.
Exterior finishes matter less than interior — how much time will you spend outside staring at the front of your house?
lawsuited
House #2. The extra bedroom and bathroom, and not being next door to a dilapidated house, will help you on resale. Loving the inside (space, finishings) of the house is MUCH more important that liking the exterior colour. I really, really doubt that you will miss an extra foot of space in the garage or the staircase.
ChiLaw
Def #2! Think of the resale implications of the extra bedroom! And it sounds like you LIKE being inside it better (wainscoting, finishes). That’s so important.
P
I’ll be a dissenting voice. Depends on how big your bedrooms are, but we would love an extra foot of width in our narrow bedrooms. There would be a lot more furniture arrangement options (such as putting a dresser opposite a queen bed) with just one extra foot. Also our realtor told us there was no extra resale value for our fifth bedroom in our 5+2 starter home. That said, we have tons of guests and we are grateful for our fifth bedroom. Can the windows to the neighbor house be managed through landscaping?
a tale of two houses
Not sure what the 5+2 refers to, but no we cannot fix with landscaping. These are narrow city plots with a sidewalk and utilities on either side of the house, so no landscaping options to work with. Both the master bed and bath is actually larger in the ‘narrower’ house. I think the thing for us to remember for resale is that when we sell this down the line it is highly unlikely they will have the twin house also on the market at the same time to compare it to, like our current situation. They will just compare it to other similar homes in the area.
a tale of two houses
Haha, wow, thanks everyone! I like having the flexibility of an extra bedroom, husband’s thought is we could negotiate price saying ‘this has one less bedroom.’ But these two have been on the market for a while, so I think we will be able to negotiate both, and ultimately we will have re-sale value to think about.
Anne Elliott
House 2 , no question. I will spend my time indoors rather than looking at the exterior. I want to be surrounded by nice stuff. Plus an extra bedroom/bath. No room for doubt here.
Dom
#2
Tailoring Q
I might be too late for this thread – has anyone had the zipper removed from a dress? Is that a thing that a tailor can do pretty easily and cheaply?
I have a couple of stretchy dresses – either ponte or some sort of poly blend – that slip on perfectly easily over my head. I’m short and short-waisted so the zipper bubbles and sticks out like I have a tail. I don’t really want to spend the money to have the dresses taken up at the shoulder, which would also solve the issue, but I’m thinking that just removing the zipper might be a cheaper and easier fix to accomplish almost the same thing.
Bonnie
I can’t imagine that removing the zipper would be any cheaper than taking up the shoulders.
Zipp
What kind of zipper is it?
If its a “hidden zipper” where zipper is on the inside, and the two edges of the material touch each other (looks like a normal seam when zipped), it should be super easy for a tailor to do.
If you have an exposed zipper which shows the teeth and zipper tape, likely would be much more difficult (as the existing material doesn’t match up to the seam you need).